11: I Am the Steve Jobs of This Sandwich


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:02   this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:04   ruminating on exactly what is wrong the [TS]

00:00:07   world of Apple and related technologies [TS]

00:00:09   and businesses nothing is so perfect [TS]

00:00:12   that John siracusa cannot complain about [TS]

00:00:14   it hey John how are you I'm doing fine [TS]

00:00:17   I'm Dan Benjamin this is episode number [TS]

00:00:19   ten eleven almost at 10:00 it's 11:00 we [TS]

00:00:22   want to preemptively thank mailchimp.com [TS]

00:00:25   will tell you about what they what [TS]

00:00:27   they've got going on later in the show [TS]

00:00:28   but here it is a big number 11 we flew I [TS]

00:00:31   feel like we crossed some milestone by [TS]

00:00:32   going you know it's like when people [TS]

00:00:34   would celebrate the new millennium [TS]

00:00:37   ending in 2000 but really that it's not [TS]

00:00:39   it's not until 2001 for example that [TS]

00:00:42   you're supposed to celebrate that you [TS]

00:00:45   knew that I was actually hoping that we [TS]

00:00:47   can make it at 10 shows before you [TS]

00:00:49   rescheduled it we almost made it almost [TS]

00:00:51   this is a good time yeah the great time [TS]

00:00:54   for at least the next nine episodes yeah [TS]

00:00:56   we'll hold out for nine more at least so [TS]

00:00:59   what have you been up to you have to [TS]

00:01:01   follow up I do I have some follow up I [TS]

00:01:05   always say not a lot but that it ends up [TS]

00:01:07   being half the show so just to just [TS]

00:01:09   figure this is gonna be half the show [TS]

00:01:10   let's start yeah so we've got last show [TS]

00:01:14   was no I life as an island yeah good [TS]

00:01:16   show got some feedback on that one a lot [TS]

00:01:21   of people just agreeing but uh one [TS]

00:01:23   person was noting that the iPad is not a [TS]

00:01:27   great multi person machinist gets kind [TS]

00:01:30   of into iOS as a single user operating [TS]

00:01:32   system when you're going back to [TS]

00:01:34   episodes for follow-up now pop knows no [TS]

00:01:37   bounds okay all right I like that what [TS]

00:01:40   you were yeah um yeah and this is the [TS]

00:01:43   older follow-up so comes first so this [TS]

00:01:45   was a Martin Steiger was knowing that [TS]

00:01:48   iPads think if you have like one for the [TS]

00:01:50   whole family it's a big fight over you [TS]

00:01:52   know who gets to put what on the home [TS]

00:01:54   screen and whose apps or what whose [TS]

00:01:56   email accounts are in the mail app and [TS]

00:01:59   who's instapaper account is [TS]

00:02:00   automatically logged in and means to [TS]

00:02:01   favorite you know I mean they're not [TS]

00:02:03   exactly good multi-user devices and [TS]

00:02:06   there's no real reason for it in theory [TS]

00:02:08   they could add fast user switching you [TS]

00:02:10   know dump everything else out of memory [TS]

00:02:12   and and [TS]

00:02:13   which to a different user that might [TS]

00:02:15   take a little while it might you know [TS]

00:02:17   decrease the experience Apple would just [TS]

00:02:18   say why doesn't everybody the family buy [TS]

00:02:20   an iPad you know but at 500 bucks a pop [TS]

00:02:23   that's not yet an option maybe one there [TS]

00:02:26   one hundred and fifty dollars in five [TS]

00:02:27   years [TS]

00:02:28   then it won't be such a big deal so I [TS]

00:02:29   expect Apple is going to just stick to [TS]

00:02:31   its guns in this one and say iOS it's [TS]

00:02:33   one person one device there's no user [TS]

00:02:35   switching that's ridiculous [TS]

00:02:36   we'll get the price down eventually [TS]

00:02:38   don't worry about it eventually you'll [TS]

00:02:39   each have one and won't be a problem [TS]

00:02:41   it's kind of like complaining about how [TS]

00:02:42   you know we're all sharing a phone in [TS]

00:02:45   the family we have one cell phone and [TS]

00:02:46   it's annoying because the home screen is [TS]

00:02:48   not the way I want everyone has their [TS]

00:02:49   own phone now and that's you know the [TS]

00:02:51   things I think eventually everyone will [TS]

00:02:52   have their own tablet thing I mean this [TS]

00:02:54   problem will go away but for now it is [TS]

00:02:56   kind of annoying that you can't share a [TS]

00:02:58   device and it's actually it's about to [TS]

00:03:01   come up in our household because we got [TS]

00:03:02   our iPad you did yeah you got yours too [TS]

00:03:05   right no no no it's out for delivery [TS]

00:03:08   today again so they say oh you saw they [TS]

00:03:12   tried and didn't quite make it no they [TS]

00:03:13   they it sat in Anchorage actually did [TS]

00:03:17   saying sit in Anchorage but before that [TS]

00:03:20   it was in it was in some place I'm not [TS]

00:03:22   even sure how to pronounce in Hong Kong [TS]

00:03:24   is it land ha Lantau Island I don't know [TS]

00:03:28   it was there for four or five days it [TS]

00:03:30   was an anchorage for four to five days [TS]

00:03:32   then it was in Memphis for two days and [TS]

00:03:34   today it says it's on vehicle for [TS]

00:03:36   delivery it's taken at or on its way to [TS]

00:03:39   you [TS]

00:03:40   and I'm not I mean you know again I [TS]

00:03:41   don't I don't mind waiting I think would [TS]

00:03:43   be fun to talk about it but it'll get [TS]

00:03:45   here when gets here there's Pete [TS]

00:03:47   everybody wants it right now gotta have [TS]

00:03:48   it right now day one [TS]

00:03:50   yeah my wife had the same problem we [TS]

00:03:52   ordered one online after she failed to [TS]

00:03:54   get one in person and she just couldn't [TS]

00:03:58   wait for the one to come online so she [TS]

00:03:59   went to an Apple store early this [TS]

00:04:01   morning and waited in line and got one [TS]

00:04:03   and cancelled our online order I knew a [TS]

00:04:06   lot of people that that were doing that [TS]

00:04:08   and yeah I mean I didn't bring it to me [TS]

00:04:10   whenever you get it bring it to me [TS]

00:04:11   that's fine it is kind of annoying that [TS]

00:04:13   they decide the inventory goes to the [TS]

00:04:15   stores first and the people who mail [TS]

00:04:16   order to just have to wait you know [TS]

00:04:19   because it's obviously for the entire [TS]

00:04:21   time we've been waiting for our order to [TS]

00:04:22   to ship the supposed to three to four [TS]

00:04:24   weeks stores have been getting your [TS]

00:04:25   shipments every single day so [TS]

00:04:27   like why not send some of those to the [TS]

00:04:28   people who ordered theirs but I guess [TS]

00:04:29   they have their priorities you know I [TS]

00:04:31   guess they do and I don't can I mean I I [TS]

00:04:33   don't really understand the logic of [TS]

00:04:35   that of how they make how they actually [TS]

00:04:38   make the decision of where to send what [TS]

00:04:40   it seems it's kind of a puzzle I think [TS]

00:04:44   they think that people who order online [TS]

00:04:46   are the people who are going to get it [TS]

00:04:47   anyway so you don't have to satisfy them [TS]

00:04:48   and the people who go to the stores or [TS]

00:04:50   the regular Joe's and you want to get [TS]

00:04:52   those people when you can like the guy [TS]

00:04:55   order online knew from the second it was [TS]

00:04:57   announced he was going to get it or knew [TS]

00:04:58   right before that he was gonna get it [TS]

00:05:00   whereas someone wandering behind the [TS]

00:05:01   mall saying oh you know iPad I heard [TS]

00:05:03   about that and they wander into an Apple [TS]

00:05:04   store that gets your kind of casual [TS]

00:05:07   spontaneous one of the mill non tech [TS]

00:05:09   followers and you have to have inventory [TS]

00:05:10   for them if I had to make the decision I [TS]

00:05:12   would I would do the same thing it's [TS]

00:05:13   just annoying when we're one of the [TS]

00:05:14   people who you know mail ordered it but [TS]

00:05:16   it's the stores obviously don't have [TS]

00:05:19   enough stock as it is and those are the [TS]

00:05:21   places where you want to get the new [TS]

00:05:21   people and poach the you know the in [TS]

00:05:24   between e customers I mean if you [TS]

00:05:26   because as strange as this sounds I [TS]

00:05:28   think for a lot of people this is almost [TS]

00:05:31   like an impulse buy yeah we're not not [TS]

00:05:34   impulse buys just if you're not in tech [TS]

00:05:35   circles by now you've probably heard [TS]

00:05:37   about the iPad or some sort of tablet or [TS]

00:05:39   maybe you get it confused with the iPod [TS]

00:05:41   touch what you call the I touch you know [TS]

00:05:43   you just he you know there's something [TS]

00:05:44   going on out there but you're not it's [TS]

00:05:46   not in front of your mind you're like [TS]

00:05:47   yeah whatever [TS]

00:05:48   and you just happen to be in the mall or [TS]

00:05:50   happen to be wherever you are and the [TS]

00:05:51   Apple store is there and you're killing [TS]

00:05:52   time you let you just wander in and say [TS]

00:05:54   let me check out what they have here and [TS]

00:05:55   then it then it gets you because you're [TS]

00:05:56   not prepared to see this thing you [TS]

00:05:59   hadn't given any thought in your entire [TS]

00:06:00   life about what it would be like to use [TS]

00:06:02   a big touchscreen and fill around web [TS]

00:06:03   pages with your finger and you do it [TS]

00:06:05   once and you're like all right I've got [TS]

00:06:06   a credit card how much is this and walk [TS]

00:06:08   out with one something else on the iPad [TS]

00:06:14   before we leave this one to go in the [TS]

00:06:15   next thing this is not really a die pads [TS]

00:06:17   but it's from the common from the same [TS]

00:06:18   guy I'm gonna guess by his name that [TS]

00:06:20   maybe he's in Germany [TS]

00:06:21   Martin Steiger but he says that [TS]

00:06:24   microwave ovens are not ubiquitous [TS]

00:06:27   wherever he is yeah and he says maybe [TS]

00:06:30   microwave a widespread microwave up and [TS]

00:06:32   use might be an American thing I hadn't [TS]

00:06:33   given that much thought but I suppose [TS]

00:06:36   that could be true I don't know you know [TS]

00:06:38   I don't I can't it's 2,000 [TS]

00:06:40   eleven I am sure that in many countries [TS]

00:06:44   they don't have luxuries of things like [TS]

00:06:46   microwaves and that but you get the [TS]

00:06:50   sense that if if you can go to a corner [TS]

00:06:53   store and buy a newspaper and you've got [TS]

00:06:56   electricity in your house and plumbing [TS]

00:06:57   and things that work if you're lucky [TS]

00:06:59   enough to live in a that kind of a [TS]

00:07:01   country you would just assume it people [TS]

00:07:03   who are listening to this show that they [TS]

00:07:06   have a microwave yeah you think we're [TS]

00:07:08   gonna get your Albania but that's us [TS]

00:07:10   centric view of the world because really [TS]

00:07:11   we just don't know anything about the [TS]

00:07:12   rest of the world I don't know that he [TS]

00:07:14   says he doesn't have a microwave and has [TS]

00:07:15   never had one how could you get by with [TS]

00:07:17   in a microwave he says he has a steamer [TS]

00:07:20   but you know maybe like in Europe it's [TS]

00:07:23   not really heat up a can of soup and a [TS]

00:07:25   steamer I don't know I guess you'd put [TS]

00:07:27   that right on the stove in a pot take 20 [TS]

00:07:29   minutes to get it to room temperature [TS]

00:07:30   sometimes it's it's puzzling to me but [TS]

00:07:33   like I said I think both of us have very [TS]

00:07:34   us centric views of the world I totally [TS]

00:07:37   think I know I do so but microwaves are [TS]

00:07:40   not ubiquitous huh apparently not then [TS]

00:07:43   again you know if you write about [TS]

00:07:44   anything someone will this is what the [TS]

00:07:46   show is gonna be about eventually [TS]

00:07:47   someone somewhere will will object or [TS]

00:07:49   have a counter-argument you don't know [TS]

00:07:50   if that person is representative [TS]

00:07:51   anything except for themselves or their [TS]

00:07:53   one you know pet peeve with there's been [TS]

00:07:57   times I've had three microwaves yeah [TS]

00:08:00   just for convenience sake I don't want [TS]

00:08:02   to walk to that into the kitchen I'll [TS]

00:08:03   get one for this I don't even want to go [TS]

00:08:06   to the kitchen we'll put one in here the [TS]

00:08:07   bathtub chicken in every pot a microwave [TS]

00:08:10   in every room but one in the car in case [TS]

00:08:12   you want to eat while you're driving [TS]

00:08:15   alright the next one [TS]

00:08:17   Apple's online stuff that was actually [TS]

00:08:19   the last show episode 10 yeah a couple [TS]

00:08:23   of quick points in this a lot of people [TS]

00:08:25   pointed out that Google has exchanged [TS]

00:08:28   support for the iPhone like you connect [TS]

00:08:31   you tell your iPhone to connect to it as [TS]

00:08:33   if it's an exchange server and her email [TS]

00:08:35   pretends like it is right and there were [TS]

00:08:38   suggestions that that might work better [TS]

00:08:40   than trying to pop or IMAP from it I've [TS]

00:08:42   been a little bit afraid to try it [TS]

00:08:43   because when I go to the link that been [TS]

00:08:45   provided by a bunch of people it seems [TS]

00:08:48   to want to sync everything like my [TS]

00:08:51   contacts on my counter does it does and [TS]

00:08:53   I do not want [TS]

00:08:54   do that because Google's Gmail's [TS]

00:08:56   contacts are horrible because every [TS]

00:08:58   person you email to or receive email [TS]

00:09:00   from seemingly ends up in your address [TS]

00:09:03   book with an email only entry and that [TS]

00:09:04   drives me nuts I want my email book to [TS]

00:09:06   be you know to use the word the last two [TS]

00:09:08   years curated I pick the people that are [TS]

00:09:10   in it and I you know tell their entries [TS]

00:09:12   and that's it and I do not want every [TS]

00:09:13   single person although complete can put [TS]

00:09:15   those people in there when I start [TS]

00:09:16   typing an email address that then it can [TS]

00:09:17   suggest anyone I've ever emailed to or [TS]

00:09:19   from but I don't want them on my [TS]

00:09:20   contacts list so the last thing I ever [TS]

00:09:21   want to do it allow Google contacts to [TS]

00:09:24   flood out like a bunch of green aliens [TS]

00:09:26   swarming oh yeah you do have the ability [TS]

00:09:29   I believe in the chat room seems to be [TS]

00:09:31   saying is to you have the ability to [TS]

00:09:33   control what actually gets synced but [TS]

00:09:36   I'm with you I don't yeah it's not where [TS]

00:09:38   I figured that ability had to be in [TS]

00:09:40   there but I'm still just worried of [TS]

00:09:41   trying it because it like if I get it [TS]

00:09:42   wrong or I don't turn it off and [TS]

00:09:44   accidentally sync once yeah you know it [TS]

00:09:46   I got it I'll be spending an hour [TS]

00:09:48   cleaning out my contacts because I [TS]

00:09:49   didn't find the right check Bob you [TS]

00:09:50   should you should be wary of it [TS]

00:09:52   yeah so I use the web UI for that on the [TS]

00:09:54   phone too [TS]

00:09:55   and another person pointed out a bunch [TS]

00:09:57   of people actually and I should have [TS]

00:09:58   remembered this because I remember when [TS]

00:09:59   it happened but apples a calendar update [TS]

00:10:02   remember when they had that new MobileMe [TS]

00:10:03   calendar with new UI looks like the iPad [TS]

00:10:05   you guys sure the beckylyn well the [TS]

00:10:07   external feature is like oh look this [TS]

00:10:09   new UI and looks fancy use a sprout core [TS]

00:10:11   whatever they're using under the covers [TS]

00:10:12   it looks like the iPad but the other [TS]

00:10:15   change internally is that apparently [TS]

00:10:16   it's server canonical now it's not like [TS]

00:10:19   you know that the devices are the [TS]

00:10:20   canonical representations and they use [TS]

00:10:22   the computers the way point it's the [TS]

00:10:23   server is the source of truth and [TS]

00:10:25   everybody else sinks down from that so [TS]

00:10:28   it was like a double change there the UI [TS]

00:10:29   and the model and that would be good for [TS]

00:10:31   me if I actually see whose MobileMe [TS]

00:10:33   calendar but I don't and the reason I [TS]

00:10:35   don't is and again this is this is a [TS]

00:10:38   barrier for Apple not so much based on [TS]

00:10:39   fact but on perception my perception is [TS]

00:10:41   that if I do [TS]

00:10:43   MobileMe calendar well can other people [TS]

00:10:45   see my calendar and can I share with [TS]

00:10:47   them do they have to be mold me [TS]

00:10:48   subscribers you know I we pay from old [TS]

00:10:50   me for the house but we don't do a [TS]

00:10:51   family plan we just have my one account [TS]

00:10:53   yeah and so then I get a calendar but my [TS]

00:10:55   wife doesn't have MobileMe calendar so [TS]

00:10:57   do we want to upgrade to the family plan [TS]

00:10:58   so she can get a mold me calendar and [TS]

00:10:59   then what about all my other relatives [TS]

00:11:00   they have to get a mobile me or can it [TS]

00:11:02   sync with Google calendars or you know [TS]

00:11:04   all these questions may have answers [TS]

00:11:06   that that satis [TS]

00:11:08   you know yes you can do this no it's not [TS]

00:11:10   a problem this is you can do this is [TS]

00:11:11   just fine [TS]

00:11:12   but the fact that I don't know and have [TS]

00:11:14   no good way to find out without like [TS]

00:11:15   paying and trying it keeps me away from [TS]

00:11:17   it and mainly the thing keeps me way is [TS]

00:11:19   that I used Google Calendar for free I [TS]

00:11:21   know every single person use it we can [TS]

00:11:22   share all these calendars among our [TS]

00:11:23   family in school and whatever else we're [TS]

00:11:25   sharing calendars with there's no [TS]

00:11:27   barrier to entry it's again it's the for [TS]

00:11:29   pay model versus the the free with ads [TS]

00:11:31   model and the free with ads model is a [TS]

00:11:33   lot easier to sort of go viral then [TS]

00:11:36   trying to convince everyone you know to [TS]

00:11:37   pay nine dollars a year for I'm old me [TS]

00:11:39   so they can use the fancy web UI that [TS]

00:11:44   bothers me about the family pack to like [TS]

00:11:45   the family pack is better than when they [TS]

00:11:46   didn't have it because no one's going to [TS]

00:11:47   pay $100 a year for every single person [TS]

00:11:49   in their family but it still bothers me [TS]

00:11:52   that like if you only pay $100 a year [TS]

00:11:55   yeah you can get multiple email accounts [TS]

00:11:56   but you only get one of the good stuff [TS]

00:11:57   you get like one set of contacts and you [TS]

00:11:59   know one calendar and what you don't [TS]

00:12:01   it's not a multi-user thing but just [TS]

00:12:04   having another email addresses someone [TS]

00:12:05   doesn't give them the full mobile me [TS]

00:12:06   experience and then maybe I would pay [TS]

00:12:10   for the family plan like mobile me more [TS]

00:12:11   but no one else really cares about [TS]

00:12:13   syncing everyone else uses free web [TS]

00:12:14   services and I just use the mobile me [TS]

00:12:16   sync stuff so the last bit of follow-up [TS]

00:12:20   was also from the online thing and [TS]

00:12:21   that's about one of the points I made [TS]

00:12:24   later in the show I thought about it it [TS]

00:12:26   was another aspect of that that I should [TS]

00:12:28   have talked about I want to talk about [TS]

00:12:30   it now I made the point that Google's [TS]

00:12:32   operations were its biggest advantage in [TS]

00:12:34   terms of like data centers and how to [TS]

00:12:36   run that was when you're quizzing me [TS]

00:12:38   about it right yeah and I asked you what [TS]

00:12:40   you thought it was and a lot of people [TS]

00:12:41   would say like what's their search [TS]

00:12:42   algorithm or they're great at selling [TS]

00:12:43   advertising or whatever but I was saying [TS]

00:12:45   that their biggest advantage is that [TS]

00:12:46   operation stuff and there was an aspect [TS]

00:12:48   of it that didn't don't think I quite [TS]

00:12:50   focused on enough and I want to revisit [TS]

00:12:52   it it's not so much it's not just the [TS]

00:12:56   stuff that we talked about in terms of [TS]

00:12:57   how they manage the data center is how [TS]

00:12:59   they buy commodity hardware and have [TS]

00:13:00   tweaked it so they have these custom [TS]

00:13:02   things and they build everything so the [TS]

00:13:04   machines can fail and stuff like that [TS]

00:13:07   they that is all true but the key thing [TS]

00:13:10   that's an advantage to them is that that [TS]

00:13:12   stuff is not off-the-shelf stuff it's [TS]

00:13:14   not as if if you want to do to be in [TS]

00:13:17   make a similar business where you're in [TS]

00:13:19   cloud computing or whatever you [TS]

00:13:21   study up read a bunch of books read a [TS]

00:13:23   lot on the web and then just you know [TS]

00:13:24   get some combination of like nginx [TS]

00:13:27   MongoDB memcache my sequel Oracle and [TS]

00:13:29   like combine it together with best [TS]

00:13:31   practices and come up with something [TS]

00:13:32   like Google the Google does not use that [TS]

00:13:34   stuff or rather uses that stuff in [TS]

00:13:35   limited capacities but it's sort of you [TS]

00:13:37   know it's custom it's not off-the-shelf [TS]

00:13:39   they're not using the same open-source [TS]

00:13:40   software as everyone else for the most [TS]

00:13:41   part ah in some cases they even like [TS]

00:13:44   with go they even invent their own stuff [TS]

00:13:46   right and that's from saying it's all [TS]

00:13:47   their own stuff that they're inventing [TS]

00:13:48   for them for the hardcore you know [TS]

00:13:50   infrastructure and that's why the the [TS]

00:13:53   strategy you should do a Google does if [TS]

00:13:55   you have an online business Google's [TS]

00:13:56   created operations you should do just [TS]

00:13:57   what they do you can't do what they do [TS]

00:13:58   because they're not you know everyone [TS]

00:14:01   thinks if you're starting a web 2.0 [TS]

00:14:02   startup just figure out what what the [TS]

00:14:04   best practices are and look at what [TS]

00:14:05   everyone else is using and just you know [TS]

00:14:06   hire a bunch of people who can figure it [TS]

00:14:08   out and build something on that but if [TS]

00:14:11   you're gonna imitate Google you can't do [TS]

00:14:12   that because you can't you don't access [TS]

00:14:14   to the stuff that they have access to [TS]

00:14:15   they're the only ones with this [TS]

00:14:17   technology and it's kind of like a [TS]

00:14:18   secret weapon in like a world where all [TS]

00:14:20   the weapons are increasingly open where [TS]

00:14:22   everybody has access to all these open [TS]

00:14:24   source you know infrastructure things [TS]

00:14:26   everybody can use Apache ever and can [TS]

00:14:27   can look at the latest greatest know [TS]

00:14:29   sequel database and you know give it a [TS]

00:14:31   spin you know anybody can use my sequel [TS]

00:14:33   anybody can buy Oracle but you don't [TS]

00:14:36   have access to those things that Google [TS]

00:14:38   has and there are some open source [TS]

00:14:39   alternatives like people see what Google [TS]

00:14:41   has and like go find Google you're not [TS]

00:14:42   going to give us that thing what we're [TS]

00:14:43   going to write Hadoop to try to make [TS]

00:14:45   something that's similar to what you [TS]

00:14:46   have and there are cases where Google [TS]

00:14:48   make something and releases it like go [TS]

00:14:49   they invent this language and say here [TS]

00:14:51   you want to use go go nuts with it have [TS]

00:14:53   fun but for the most part its core [TS]

00:14:55   infrastructure stuff is not distributed [TS]

00:14:57   as open-source software and it's and [TS]

00:14:59   it's there you know key advantage here [TS]

00:15:01   and it's kind of like like it's a [TS]

00:15:03   question of how big a lead do they have [TS]

00:15:05   because eventually the open source stuff [TS]

00:15:06   will catch up with this or they'll [TS]

00:15:07   release it as open source buthe they [TS]

00:15:08   won't see it as so much of a competitive [TS]

00:15:09   advantage anymore or you know the world [TS]

00:15:12   will move on in some other way but they [TS]

00:15:13   do have what feels kind of like apples [TS]

00:15:16   10-ish year lead and the GUI where Apple [TS]

00:15:19   had the best yeah for a you know that is [TS]

00:15:22   a big lead in everybody else and they [TS]

00:15:24   you know you could say they took [TS]

00:15:26   advantage that elite a little bit to [TS]

00:15:27   make tons of money the 90s but they also [TS]

00:15:28   kind of squandered it I'm wondering what [TS]

00:15:30   Google will do with its lead because it [TS]

00:15:31   it had especially you know three or four [TS]

00:15:34   years ago [TS]

00:15:34   just a humongous lead on everybody in [TS]

00:15:36   terms of operations there's still ahead [TS]

00:15:37   but I feel like people are kind of [TS]

00:15:40   catching up well and I fear ially if you [TS]

00:15:42   think about it what you can do with the [TS]

00:15:44   cloud services that are out there today [TS]

00:15:46   whether it's with Rackspace or Amazon or [TS]

00:15:49   or whoever it it really is possible to [TS]

00:15:54   all of a sudden scale up really really [TS]

00:15:56   really quickly to unimaginable sizes [TS]

00:16:00   sizes that you never in a million years [TS]

00:16:02   could have gotten to you can do that now [TS]

00:16:05   just literally by by checking some boxes [TS]

00:16:08   and hitting submit with a credit card [TS]

00:16:09   and I'm not saying that people can go [TS]

00:16:12   and compete with Google and now that's [TS]

00:16:14   the minor leagues though the minor [TS]

00:16:15   league is it easier to go from zero to [TS]

00:16:17   pretty darn big with your minor league [TS]

00:16:19   things but if you want to go to the [TS]

00:16:20   major leagues like I'm thinking of [TS]

00:16:22   another company that's at Google scale [TS]

00:16:23   think of maybe Facebook and I they [TS]

00:16:27   invent some stuff on their own with the [TS]

00:16:28   most part they're using commodity stuff [TS]

00:16:29   but it really depends the nature of your [TS]

00:16:31   application but the bottom line is that [TS]

00:16:33   all these companies you have to control [TS]

00:16:34   your own destiny something somewhat and [TS]

00:16:36   I wouldn't I wouldn't want to base my [TS]

00:16:37   whole business on anybody's cloud thing [TS]

00:16:40   on ec2 or on Amazon's own app engine or [TS]

00:16:42   anything like that at a certain point [TS]

00:16:43   when you get to a certain size that [TS]

00:16:45   becomes a liability you either have to [TS]

00:16:46   buy the company that you're relying on [TS]

00:16:48   you know we're using this Amazon ec2 [TS]

00:16:49   which we just buy Amazon or you have to [TS]

00:16:51   roll your own because it's just too much [TS]

00:16:53   of a risk to have something that [TS]

00:16:55   critical relying on another party so you [TS]

00:16:57   have to either roll your own out of [TS]

00:16:58   open-source parts or commercial parts or [TS]

00:17:01   build it all yourself and that's why [TS]

00:17:03   Google is up there on its throne with [TS]

00:17:05   it's all its custom stuff that it is [TS]

00:17:06   honed over years and years that it [TS]

00:17:07   continues to improve a lot of which the [TS]

00:17:09   key parts are not available of the [TS]

00:17:11   people and they say ok you know come at [TS]

00:17:13   us you want a facebook you want to do [TS]

00:17:14   with huge swarms of servers with PHP on [TS]

00:17:17   them and some weird database stuff that [TS]

00:17:19   you invent yourself you know we'll we'll [TS]

00:17:21   take that bet and again not that [TS]

00:17:24   infrastructure alone makes you succeed [TS]

00:17:26   but it's a I think it's a big part of [TS]

00:17:28   why Google it's a Google's biggest [TS]

00:17:29   advantage and the other part of this is [TS]

00:17:32   you just do what Google does it's kind [TS]

00:17:34   of the equivalent sort of useless advice [TS]

00:17:39   to the advice to you hero just do what [TS]

00:17:41   Apple does and for the same reasons [TS]

00:17:42   because when people say Joe you should [TS]

00:17:44   just do what Apple does look what Apple [TS]

00:17:45   does and copying them not so much copy [TS]

00:17:47   what they do but like the [TS]

00:17:48   fee of the company and what companies do [TS]

00:17:51   there's sort of like a concrete part and [TS]

00:17:53   an intangible part and the concrete part [TS]

00:17:55   of what Apple does you can write a [TS]

00:17:57   little business books about and copy [TS]

00:17:58   like the concrete parts are simplicity [TS]

00:17:59   don't have like a million products a [TS]

00:18:01   vertical integration and control the [TS]

00:18:02   whole step don't ship bad products kill [TS]

00:18:05   a bad products before they get out get [TS]

00:18:06   out the door like those are concrete [TS]

00:18:07   things that any business can do it you [TS]

00:18:09   sell doorknobs you sell whatever you [TS]

00:18:10   sell there's some lessons to be learned [TS]

00:18:12   from what Apple does then maybe that [TS]

00:18:14   will help you succeed in your business [TS]

00:18:15   but the things that help you more that [TS]

00:18:17   are the intangibles and you can't copy [TS]

00:18:20   those I'll just do what Apple those make [TS]

00:18:21   really good products make the right [TS]

00:18:23   decisions about what features to include [TS]

00:18:24   what features not to include and figure [TS]

00:18:26   out what people want before they even [TS]

00:18:27   know that they're gonna want it [TS]

00:18:28   themselves you know it that stuff you [TS]

00:18:32   can say it but you can't copy it in the [TS]

00:18:34   same way that you can say oh you know [TS]

00:18:35   write your own infrastructure software [TS]

00:18:37   just like Google does and make it [TS]

00:18:38   awesome uh yeah how do I do that again [TS]

00:18:40   it's it's it's tough to copy greatness [TS]

00:18:44   this and so whenever these decks see [TS]

00:18:46   these things of like you know do what [TS]

00:18:47   Apple does and you will succeed [TS]

00:18:48   half of that is true and then half of it [TS]

00:18:50   it's like you know so the great [TS]

00:18:53   instruction on how to avoid sexual [TS]

00:18:55   harassment in the workplace step one be [TS]

00:18:57   handsome succeed like Apple be handsome [TS]

00:19:03   it's the truth all right I think that's [TS]

00:19:06   all my follow up I just I felt like I'm [TS]

00:19:10   on the Google thing we just spent too [TS]

00:19:11   much time talking about data center not [TS]

00:19:12   enough about that software secret weapon [TS]

00:19:14   Indiana it gets a big deal do you [TS]

00:19:18   understand sir we want to go on to the [TS]

00:19:19   main topic I would like to I would like [TS]

00:19:22   to do the sponsor I think because it's [TS]

00:19:25   kind of relates you're kind of talking [TS]

00:19:27   about codes and algorithms and that's [TS]

00:19:28   kind of what our sponsor is so we've had [TS]

00:19:31   we've had MailChimp as a sponsor before [TS]

00:19:33   but this is something that they're doing [TS]

00:19:34   it that's pretty cool [TS]

00:19:36   they've launched a 1 million dollar [TS]

00:19:38   integration fund for developers million [TS]

00:19:41   bucks they're giving away so this is how [TS]

00:19:44   it works are accepting applications from [TS]

00:19:45   anybody who's interested in building an [TS]

00:19:47   integration on MailChimp platform this [TS]

00:19:49   can be an app that you've already built [TS]

00:19:51   that you want to integrate with [TS]

00:19:52   MailChimp it could be a web app can be [TS]

00:19:54   iOS it could be Android whatever you [TS]

00:19:55   want all it has to do is integrate with [TS]

00:19:58   the MailChimp platform you go to [TS]

00:20:00   MailChimp comm slash in agree [TS]

00:20:02   raishin fund and they will give you I [TS]

00:20:05   don't know if they give them though I [TS]

00:20:06   don't think they give the million bucks [TS]

00:20:07   to one person I think they spread it out [TS]

00:20:10   a little bit but you could get a lot of [TS]

00:20:12   money you could get it quite a bit of [TS]

00:20:13   money because they're giving away a [TS]

00:20:15   million dollars and all you do is go [TS]

00:20:17   there you enter you can fill in a few [TS]

00:20:18   blanks tell them about your app and then [TS]

00:20:20   they give you some money they don't want [TS]

00:20:21   equity the value to them is that you're [TS]

00:20:24   using their platform and that's it no [TS]

00:20:26   pay to do it so go to MailChimp comm [TS]

00:20:28   slash integration fund and get it I [TS]

00:20:33   don't know part of a million bucks seems [TS]

00:20:36   like that's what people should be doing [TS]

00:20:37   it's building apps these days why what a [TS]

00:20:40   world we live in that that the big thing [TS]

00:20:42   that a company wants to sell you is no [TS]

00:20:44   longer like buy our widget so much is [TS]

00:20:46   build on our platform matter who you are [TS]

00:20:47   no matter what your business is use our [TS]

00:20:49   API that's kind of the buzzword thing [TS]

00:20:51   like do you have an API whatever but it [TS]

00:20:53   really is true in the non buzzword sense [TS]

00:20:56   that people are realizing to the big [TS]

00:20:58   success comes from platforms and it's [TS]

00:21:00   it's an interesting change from when you [TS]

00:21:02   just make a product and sell it from [TS]

00:21:03   your deck exactly exactly so now what's [TS]

00:21:08   our main topic today the mystery topic [TS]

00:21:10   about to be unveiled the mystery [TS]

00:21:12   ingredient is it's not a mystery because [TS]

00:21:14   you named use requested it last week [TS]

00:21:16   I've already forgotten what was yeah you [TS]

00:21:18   forgot to ask you if you could explain [TS]

00:21:21   what you think the topic is that you [TS]

00:21:23   tell me is it name of it and it'll [TS]

00:21:24   explain it ah was the crust it was the [TS]

00:21:27   topic that you think is about like [TS]

00:21:28   online criticism and stuff okay what's [TS]

00:21:31   the title I don't know I don't have my [TS]

00:21:33   own in the topic list I don't think we [TS]

00:21:35   had in topic WestEd like all the other [TS]

00:21:38   topics it's based on some article [TS]

00:21:40   article usually the title of the article [TS]

00:21:43   that I wrote was hyper critical which is [TS]

00:21:44   what the show is named after I really [TS]

00:21:46   thought we do this is topic is the very [TS]

00:21:48   first episode to kind of explain you [TS]

00:21:50   know what is it that we're going to do [TS]

00:21:51   on this podcast or whatever but we would [TS]

00:21:54   use cross the the ten mark so maybe this [TS]

00:21:56   is proof that we would you know we [TS]

00:21:59   executed first right we delivered we [TS]

00:22:01   shipped it now we'll explain it you [TS]

00:22:04   shake the kinks out for the first time [TS]

00:22:05   episodes but yeah if you made through [TS]

00:22:06   ten episodes and can't figure out what [TS]

00:22:08   the hell it is we're doing here we'll [TS]

00:22:09   try to explain it right well I think [TS]

00:22:11   people have the gist of it but uh so [TS]

00:22:13   I'll just dive right in here so this [TS]

00:22:15   this article when I wrote it was another [TS]

00:22:17   one of those things that was stewing in [TS]

00:22:19   my head for a long time and is oh I want [TS]

00:22:22   to give my disclaimer before we go into [TS]

00:22:23   this this probably qualifies as a non [TS]

00:22:26   tech topic so if you're here to hear [TS]

00:22:28   about technology stuff and how we like [TS]

00:22:30   our iPads and Technology business and [TS]

00:22:33   industry stuff now would be a time to [TS]

00:22:36   you know perhaps listen to another [TS]

00:22:38   podcast but if you do like non tech [TS]

00:22:40   topics that's what this show is going to [TS]

00:22:41   be about I think it's been you know five [TS]

00:22:43   episodes since our last non tech show [TS]

00:22:44   this one is mostly non tech so but it [TS]

00:22:47   very much relates to tech though it's [TS]

00:22:49   not it's not tech in the sense that [TS]

00:22:50   we're not going to be talking about [TS]

00:22:52   firewire 800 connectors right but it's [TS]

00:22:55   very very centred on technology it [TS]

00:22:57   relates to online but it's more [TS]

00:22:59   touchy-feely than that it's like it's [TS]

00:23:01   it's edging into Merlin's own you know I [TS]

00:23:03   don't think it is not that far we'll see [TS]

00:23:06   how we go okay so where was that now [TS]

00:23:08   like I said this is a topic that I [TS]

00:23:10   wanted to write about for a long time [TS]

00:23:11   but I held off on because it was non [TS]

00:23:13   techie you like because I don't want to [TS]

00:23:16   write on ARS technica so much about [TS]

00:23:17   things that don't have to do with the [TS]

00:23:18   computer industry because they're like [TS]

00:23:19   you write it on your personal blog it's [TS]

00:23:20   not it's not appropriate for our stanca [TS]

00:23:22   but in the end I thought this was [TS]

00:23:25   appropriate and I had an apple angle to [TS]

00:23:27   it so I just did it and when I wrote the [TS]

00:23:30   article I tweeted the the URL and I said [TS]

00:23:34   I said here's the article wherein I [TS]

00:23:38   liken myself to both Steve Jobs in [TS]

00:23:39   Wolverine and I said that hoping that it [TS]

00:23:42   would be so ridiculous that they would [TS]

00:23:44   be intriguing to people and be they [TS]

00:23:45   would realize that that I thought it was [TS]

00:23:47   ridiculous that I was comparing myself [TS]

00:23:49   to Steve Jobs him over ranae because I'm [TS]

00:23:51   not Steve Jobs and be because Wolverine [TS]

00:23:52   his fictional character he's a superhero [TS]

00:23:53   or whatever but apparently I was not [TS]

00:23:56   ridiculous enough because many many [TS]

00:23:58   people took that seriously and I had to [TS]

00:24:00   deal with all the you know this guy [TS]

00:24:02   thinks he's Wolverine Steve Jobs rolled [TS]

00:24:04   into one which is kind of part of the [TS]

00:24:07   topic of this whole thing about when you [TS]

00:24:10   write anything a lot what kind of [TS]

00:24:11   feedback do you get so I'm going to sort [TS]

00:24:15   of take you through the article but you [TS]

00:24:17   haven't read because it's too long I [TS]

00:24:18   know and you don't like all those words [TS]

00:24:19   and do you have a lot there's a lot you [TS]

00:24:20   have to click through every individual [TS]

00:24:22   page you're a premier subscriber tower [TS]

00:24:24   stacking that you would not have to [TS]

00:24:25   click through pages because everything [TS]

00:24:26   will be all on one page I guess I've [TS]

00:24:28   just shown my hand [TS]

00:24:29   that's right you're just you don't value [TS]

00:24:31   content enough to paper [TS]

00:24:32   I think up with the RS premier is but [TS]

00:24:34   it's cheap it's like fifty bucks a year [TS]

00:24:35   or something anyway that's very [TS]

00:24:37   affordable you guys do put it but the [TS]

00:24:38   and then I don't have to click that next [TS]

00:24:40   yeah well the bad thing about that [TS]

00:24:42   because I have that turned on is when I [TS]

00:24:43   go to like my snow leopard review the [TS]

00:24:45   page Scrolls for like ten years it was a [TS]

00:24:47   certain point having everything all one [TS]

00:24:48   page becomes unwieldy didn't all right [TS]

00:24:51   so the article started with this kind of [TS]

00:24:55   personal history navel-gazing [TS]

00:24:57   touchy-feely thing that actually does go [TS]

00:25:01   somewhere so if you're reading it I [TS]

00:25:02   would encourage you to power through it [TS]

00:25:03   and I was talking about when I was a kid [TS]

00:25:05   about how I had you know I was told that [TS]

00:25:08   I had artistic talent and I was [TS]

00:25:10   encouraged to explore my artistic talent [TS]

00:25:12   and everything and how I later realized [TS]

00:25:14   that that artistic talent wasn't so much [TS]

00:25:16   the that wasn't that was like a [TS]

00:25:18   secondary effect of my ability to see [TS]

00:25:20   what was wrong with my drawings and even [TS]

00:25:22   though I was very bad [TS]

00:25:23   making the drawings I could find the [TS]

00:25:24   parts that were wrong and correct them [TS]

00:25:25   so iteratively they would get a little [TS]

00:25:27   bit better uh and that was my discovery [TS]

00:25:30   that the actual skill I had was the [TS]

00:25:33   criticism part and not so much the [TS]

00:25:34   artistic part which explains why I don't [TS]

00:25:36   really draw anything today so that was [TS]

00:25:38   the lead-in and then I went into the [TS]

00:25:40   meat of it which is about criticism you [TS]

00:25:43   know more generally like across various [TS]

00:25:45   industries um the interesting thing I [TS]

00:25:49   note about criticism is it's a little [TS]

00:25:52   bit different than you'll see online and [TS]

00:25:53   will get to be online part at the end is [TS]

00:25:54   that in general it's accepted that the [TS]

00:25:57   critics can't do what they're [TS]

00:25:59   criticizing so like no one expects a [TS]

00:26:01   movie critic to be able to make a better [TS]

00:26:02   movie than the movie that criticized no [TS]

00:26:05   one no one reads a bad review of like [TS]

00:26:06   transformers 2 and says oh yeah well [TS]

00:26:08   where's your better movie people [TS]

00:26:10   understand that you're a movie critic [TS]

00:26:12   your your job is to you know look at the [TS]

00:26:16   movie and say what you think you're not [TS]

00:26:17   responsible for having to be able to [TS]

00:26:19   make a better movie and so almost [TS]

00:26:20   certainly you can't and this is true in [TS]

00:26:22   in and you know almost any mature media [TS]

00:26:27   that has criticism in it but the critic [TS]

00:26:31   has a job to it's not to make the movies [TS]

00:26:33   that try to help people think in new [TS]

00:26:34   ways about what makes a good movie you [TS]

00:26:36   know and maybe they'll pick out a movie [TS]

00:26:37   that you wouldn't otherwise think is [TS]

00:26:38   good and talk to you about it and [TS]

00:26:39   explain why they think it's good and it [TS]

00:26:41   will help you appreciate other movies [TS]

00:26:42   that [TS]

00:26:42   that thing and the other side is that [TS]

00:26:46   that the movie makers themselves are [TS]

00:26:48   also the audience of the critics so they [TS]

00:26:50   read reviews and the even is not of [TS]

00:26:52   their movie they read a movie review and [TS]

00:26:53   it helps them think more about what [TS]

00:26:56   makes a good movie and so when they go [TS]

00:26:57   to make their next movie that critics [TS]

00:26:59   it's helped them perhaps think of [TS]

00:27:00   something more interesting or new to do [TS]

00:27:02   in their next adventure so it's kind of [TS]

00:27:04   a cycle where everyone looks at these [TS]

00:27:07   critics complaining about something that [TS]

00:27:08   was made and the people who make the [TS]

00:27:11   next round of movies use that to perhaps [TS]

00:27:13   make their movies better in response to [TS]

00:27:16   it so that's kind of the the virtuous [TS]

00:27:19   cycle there right um and creeping up on [TS]

00:27:23   computers here so the next example I use [TS]

00:27:25   to try to get closer to the computer [TS]

00:27:26   side of things and the online side of [TS]

00:27:28   things our cars it's another thing that [TS]

00:27:30   I'm into I for reading car magazines [TS]

00:27:31   since I was a kid I still read them and [TS]

00:27:34   among the things that that I'm [TS]

00:27:37   interested in the hobbies and stuff I [TS]

00:27:38   have I hold up car automotive journalism [TS]

00:27:42   and car criticism to be sort of the gold [TS]

00:27:44   standard that tech journalism should [TS]

00:27:46   apply to enough people read like Auto [TS]

00:27:49   week or Motor Trend maybe they think [TS]

00:27:51   this is ridiculous I like car and driver [TS]

00:27:52   personally there are some rags and in [TS]

00:27:54   the audio industry is in any big [TS]

00:27:57   industry but the reason I like the car [TS]

00:28:00   stuff so much is that cars are like [TS]

00:28:01   computers and they have tons of tech [TS]

00:28:03   specs cars have tons of things about [TS]

00:28:05   them you can measure this 0 to 60 time [TS]

00:28:06   braking distance lap time 0 to 100 0 the [TS]

00:28:09   weight the size in the skid pad grip [TS]

00:28:12   tons and tons of stats and and like [TS]

00:28:15   computers car magazines obsessively [TS]

00:28:17   measure the stats sometimes they have an [TS]

00:28:19   entire page in each car you dedicate [TS]

00:28:21   just to the stats you can look at all [TS]

00:28:22   the numbers and they have at the top you [TS]

00:28:23   know 50 cars from 0 to 60 times and they [TS]

00:28:25   have the you know highest mileage cars [TS]

00:28:27   and the lowest mileage cars statistics [TS]

00:28:29   up the wazoo which looks a lot like [TS]

00:28:31   computers you know megahertz megabytes [TS]

00:28:33   hard drive sizes screen size size weight [TS]

00:28:36   of laptops everything stats everywhere [TS]

00:28:39   certain kind of guys just like stats and [TS]

00:28:41   it doesn't seem to matter whether it's [TS]

00:28:43   cars or computers but the stats thing [TS]

00:28:45   kind of runs a it's a common thread [TS]

00:28:47   through all guy stuff it seems yeah and [TS]

00:28:50   and especially anything that has to do [TS]

00:28:51   with tech like cars or computers in that [TS]

00:28:53   this tons of stuff to measure like if [TS]

00:28:56   you [TS]

00:28:56   are you know your cigar aficionado it's [TS]

00:28:59   not a lot of stats there right or like [TS]

00:29:00   you're into like Ming vases yeah maybe [TS]

00:29:03   the eight will stop beyond the cigar [TS]

00:29:04   thing there are actually a lot of stats [TS]

00:29:06   and a lot of actions but not compared to [TS]

00:29:08   baseball I don't know enough cigars to [TS]

00:29:10   know what stats you're measuring you [TS]

00:29:12   know not nothing like being as you have [TS]

00:29:14   in cars and baseballers like she's like [TS]

00:29:16   a length and circumference and chrome [TS]

00:29:18   you lence uh you definitely would have [TS]

00:29:21   what they call the the ring gauge of the [TS]

00:29:23   of the cigar the length which is [TS]

00:29:25   categorized in a variety of different [TS]

00:29:26   ways there's the binder the wrapper the [TS]

00:29:28   wrapper by the way is not the plastic [TS]

00:29:31   thing that goes around the cigar there's [TS]

00:29:32   there's a whole bunch of tasting notes [TS]

00:29:34   and that there's again though it I'm [TS]

00:29:36   just not so much that is not to that is [TS]

00:29:39   that let with lab equipment you know [TS]

00:29:41   yes that's stats are a whole different [TS]

00:29:43   different thing and they're really you [TS]

00:29:45   know what sports and cars I think even [TS]

00:29:48   place in in in a category apart from [TS]

00:29:51   computers I think I think you find even [TS]

00:29:53   more stats and those things any wooden [TS]

00:29:54   computers sports stats are a little bit [TS]

00:29:57   different I'm thinking mostly of things [TS]

00:29:58   where there's like a product created by [TS]

00:30:00   somebody and then there are people [TS]

00:30:01   responsible and trying to say how [TS]

00:30:03   successful they were so you make a movie [TS]

00:30:04   and I tell you how good is the movie and [TS]

00:30:06   this really not many stats except a [TS]

00:30:08   running time in that there's lots of art [TS]

00:30:10   right right you make car and then these [TS]

00:30:12   car magazines dedicated telling you how [TS]

00:30:14   good it is and as I was saying before [TS]

00:30:15   someone in the chat were throughout [TS]

00:30:16   their road and track makes Car and [TS]

00:30:17   Driver look like amateur hour [TS]

00:30:18   I got to say I'm a car and driver guy [TS]

00:30:20   not not to disparage road and track too [TS]

00:30:22   much it's good but I'm a car and driver [TS]

00:30:24   guy I need to always have been get to [TS]

00:30:27   they're the reasons of that and a little [TS]

00:30:28   bit I think so the other thing that the [TS]

00:30:34   car reviews do besides having all these [TS]

00:30:35   stats especially in Car and Driver is [TS]

00:30:37   that and this is this is not just you [TS]

00:30:39   know a recent thing for the entire [TS]

00:30:40   history of car criticism if you want to [TS]

00:30:42   call that there's been this really [TS]

00:30:43   healthy tradition of like insight into [TS]

00:30:47   what makes a car good far far beyond the [TS]

00:30:49   stats and the best reviews of cars note [TS]

00:30:52   all the stats about it but then say what [TS]

00:30:55   why do we really love or hate this car [TS]

00:30:57   and it's subjective and that's why [TS]

00:30:58   people don't like it you get these [TS]

00:30:59   constant Wars in the car magazines of [TS]

00:31:00   saying how could you rate this car to be [TS]

00:31:02   better than this car when look at this [TS]

00:31:04   one has faster 0-60 time this one has a [TS]

00:31:06   better fuel mileage and blah blah this [TS]

00:31:07   thing beats in every possible stat and [TS]

00:31:08   you said it's [TS]

00:31:09   better and that's car magazines do not [TS]

00:31:12   shy away from that I don't and car and [TS]

00:31:14   driver in particular tends to go with [TS]

00:31:15   its gut and you can disagree with his [TS]

00:31:17   gut and say it's you know you [TS]

00:31:19   touchy-feely stuff and you shouldn't be [TS]

00:31:20   ever rating this car better than a [TS]

00:31:21   Corvette because the Corvette beats it [TS]

00:31:23   in every possible performance measure [TS]

00:31:24   and you're supposed to be car and driver [TS]

00:31:25   or how can you say this but that's what [TS]

00:31:28   they do and they recognize that what [TS]

00:31:32   makes a car good is not those numbers [TS]

00:31:34   those numbers help or hurt but that's [TS]

00:31:36   not the entirety of the car and I don't [TS]

00:31:39   think that's really up for debate [TS]

00:31:39   despite the people who get annoyed with [TS]

00:31:41   their car quote unquote if there are [TS]

00:31:42   co-write on or on the right into point [TS]

00:31:43   or other covets their car keeps losing [TS]

00:31:45   in the comparison so that's another [TS]

00:31:47   thing car driver there's actual [TS]

00:31:48   comparisons where they rank the cars [TS]

00:31:49   first place second place third place [TS]

00:31:51   fourth place they're willing to do that [TS]

00:31:53   but they do it based on criteria half of [TS]

00:31:54   which are completely subjective and [TS]

00:31:57   especially in the 80s and 90s for [TS]

00:32:01   computers that was just foreign if you [TS]

00:32:02   went to a computer magazine they give [TS]

00:32:04   you the big grid they say one of the [TS]

00:32:05   megahertz what are the speed what's the [TS]

00:32:06   price and you know and they rank them [TS]

00:32:08   based on that and it was not like well [TS]

00:32:09   this computer is you know slower than [TS]

00:32:13   the other one it cost more money and has [TS]

00:32:15   less space but I really like you know [TS]

00:32:17   the feel of the keyboard it just makes [TS]

00:32:19   me happy to use it so I'm put in rating [TS]

00:32:21   at number one that just never never [TS]

00:32:22   never happened in the computer industry [TS]

00:32:24   it was computer industry was just you [TS]

00:32:27   know stats alone and there was not any [TS]

00:32:30   real debate about if you if you pulled [TS]

00:32:32   something that in a computer magazine it [TS]

00:32:33   would be open revolt from the readers [TS]

00:32:35   they would say this magazine is crap if [TS]

00:32:36   I wanted to know how happy a computer [TS]

00:32:38   made you feel um that's not why I'm [TS]

00:32:40   reading your magazine tell me the stats [TS]

00:32:41   and rank them in that order just don't [TS]

00:32:43   rank them at all [TS]

00:32:44   um I think that hurt computers for a [TS]

00:32:48   long time the fact that especially when [TS]

00:32:50   we were kids and everything it was just [TS]

00:32:51   100% about the stats because it was made [TS]

00:32:53   by nerds and that's all we cared about [TS]

00:32:54   and these computers were you know ugly [TS]

00:32:56   and unpleasant but nobody really cared [TS]

00:32:58   that much uh and that's it's hurts kind [TS]

00:33:03   of tech industry criticism like there [TS]

00:33:05   hasn't been until very very recently [TS]

00:33:07   this culture of criticism in the sense [TS]

00:33:10   of like art criticism like movie critics [TS]

00:33:11   there was only a statistical reporting [TS]

00:33:17   and that is the reason that comes up and [TS]

00:33:20   my thoughts a lot is that even the very [TS]

00:33:23   crappiest car brands like the car brands [TS]

00:33:25   that by all objective measures that you [TS]

00:33:27   know they've spent decades making very [TS]

00:33:30   very bad cars like brands don't even [TS]

00:33:32   exist anymore like Pontiac and [TS]

00:33:34   Oldsmobile or and I can name a couple [TS]

00:33:37   other ones but I will probably already [TS]

00:33:38   get mail from people about those people [TS]

00:33:40   are have crazy loyalty to these car [TS]

00:33:42   brands completely outside the realm of [TS]

00:33:45   like you know is this a good car is it [TS]

00:33:47   reliable is it comfortable or whatever [TS]

00:33:49   there's like Pontiac families but they [TS]

00:33:50   only get Pontiacs and alls we'll be a [TS]

00:33:52   families but they only get Oldsmobiles [TS]

00:33:53   right [TS]

00:33:54   Ford Chevy's even more crazy and I'm [TS]

00:33:56   picking these American brands because in [TS]

00:33:57   the car magazines they were generally [TS]

00:33:59   considered to be not as good as you know [TS]

00:34:03   the import rivals and stuff like that [TS]

00:34:05   and that was the opinion of the car [TS]

00:34:07   magazines but people love them because [TS]

00:34:09   they had attachments to cars that had [TS]

00:34:11   nothing to do with how reliable is it [TS]

00:34:13   how fast is it you know like there were [TS]

00:34:15   attributes of the car that made them [TS]

00:34:16   feel a certain way they want an [TS]

00:34:17   Oldsmobile because their dad had knows a [TS]

00:34:19   bill in there and always would be [TS]

00:34:19   flailing they loved it and it makes them [TS]

00:34:21   feel good they have an automobile [TS]

00:34:22   because they know how to fix and also be [TS]

00:34:23   law they just like the way they look or [TS]

00:34:25   they like the color they come into like [TS]

00:34:26   the sound they make when they turn them [TS]

00:34:27   on or they like the fact that the key is [TS]

00:34:29   on the floor the sob you know in the [TS]

00:34:31   middle console because it makes them [TS]

00:34:33   feel like they're quirky and original [TS]

00:34:34   mm-hmm like turbo lag whatever it is [TS]

00:34:36   that they like about the car people [TS]

00:34:38   don't really you know people are doing [TS]

00:34:40   that for decades and they didn't really [TS]

00:34:42   feel i need to defend it you know if you [TS]

00:34:43   like sobs that's what you like and you [TS]

00:34:45   get yourself a Saab and it's not like [TS]

00:34:46   well you know for the same exact amount [TS]

00:34:47   of money you could have got this car [TS]

00:34:49   which would have been had more room and [TS]

00:34:52   at better mileage and you know no one no [TS]

00:34:54   one has discussions like that but [TS]

00:34:55   remember when back in the 90s you've got [TS]

00:34:57   a Mac the site you know for the price [TS]

00:34:58   that Mac I could have bought - 486 pcs [TS]

00:35:01   in the way it's as fast they would had [TS]

00:35:03   twice as much harddrive space and blah [TS]

00:35:04   blah blah [TS]

00:35:05   - discussions that you know one [TS]

00:35:06   discussion who never took place in the [TS]

00:35:08   car world it always took place happens [TS]

00:35:09   this day you know even in articles [TS]

00:35:11   online now if you mentioned anything [TS]

00:35:13   about Apple stuff they'll tell you what [TS]

00:35:14   you could have bought for the same money [TS]

00:35:15   that has better specs so the exception [TS]

00:35:19   to this as noted on the thing it is [TS]

00:35:21   Apple the exception of these stats Wars [TS]

00:35:23   is Apple Apple it sort of took it over [TS]

00:35:27   there there wasn't this culture of [TS]

00:35:28   mature criticism of computers it was [TS]

00:35:30   immature with stats based [TS]

00:35:32   Apple had to come so they couldn't Apple [TS]

00:35:34   couldn't rely on that to lift them up [TS]

00:35:35   they had to come at it from the other [TS]

00:35:36   and say we're going to make computers [TS]

00:35:38   that are acknowledged to be slower more [TS]

00:35:41   expensive you know it does have much as [TS]

00:35:43   much capacity so on and so forth [TS]

00:35:45   and we're going to find a way to sell [TS]

00:35:46   them and become successful with it and [TS]

00:35:48   it took them a long time of like you [TS]

00:35:49   that you know they make the iMac it's [TS]

00:35:51   like yet successful for Apple but you [TS]

00:35:52   know come on everyone still has a PC [TS]

00:35:54   right they just kept going and kept [TS]

00:35:55   going kept going and then when they went [TS]

00:35:57   into the consumer realm with the iPod [TS]

00:35:58   and the iPhone and the iPad they finally [TS]

00:36:00   started to get into a realm where [TS]

00:36:01   traditionally stats haven't mattered as [TS]

00:36:03   much and all of a sudden like the [TS]

00:36:04   playing field is getting a little bit [TS]

00:36:05   more uh less slanted against Apple [TS]

00:36:08   saying okay well apples iPods you know [TS]

00:36:10   might not have all the features you know [TS]

00:36:12   as you know less space than a Nomad no [TS]

00:36:14   wireless it's pretty lame right but they [TS]

00:36:16   you know the consumers didn't care and [TS]

00:36:18   once they got their toe in that door [TS]

00:36:20   they just ran with it all right so now [TS]

00:36:21   we have Apple's products being compared [TS]

00:36:24   more like cars people buy the pink iPod [TS]

00:36:27   mini because it's pink and it's cute and [TS]

00:36:29   I don't really care what the heck the [TS]

00:36:31   stats are the same reason they write [TS]

00:36:32   that by a VW Bug or the new VW bug or [TS]

00:36:34   some Volkswagen Cabriolet convertible [TS]

00:36:36   which is a piece of crap car cost way [TS]

00:36:37   too much money because it's durable and [TS]

00:36:39   they love it you know and it's happen is [TS]

00:36:43   happening now like this the post PC era [TS]

00:36:45   consumer devices has always been like [TS]

00:36:46   that you buy a cell phone because it's [TS]

00:36:48   because it's a nice-looking or its slim [TS]

00:36:49   you buy a razor because it looks really [TS]

00:36:51   cool and futuristic and you feel like [TS]

00:36:52   you're using a tricorder with it you [TS]

00:36:55   know stats were not a factor there and [TS]

00:36:57   computers are becoming like that that's [TS]

00:36:58   why you're seeing Apple you know zooming [TS]

00:37:00   up the ranks in the PC realm is that pcs [TS]

00:37:04   are started into that realm to where [TS]

00:37:05   they're fast enough and so you're not [TS]

00:37:07   too worried about stats but man those [TS]

00:37:08   MacBook Airs sure look slick right and [TS]

00:37:10   yeah they're more expensive than a [TS]

00:37:12   netbook but I feel like I'm getting more [TS]

00:37:14   and the same reason that your Jaguar is [TS]

00:37:15   more expensive than a Corvette and [TS]

00:37:17   performs worse I feel like I'm getting [TS]

00:37:19   more with the Jaguar because it looks [TS]

00:37:21   awesome and the Jaguar brand has a [TS]

00:37:22   cachet to it and you know whatever [TS]

00:37:24   reasons you may like the Jaguar better [TS]

00:37:26   than the Corvette they have very little [TS]

00:37:28   to do with stats and the article was [TS]

00:37:33   talking about how if there had been a [TS]

00:37:34   healthier environment of mature [TS]

00:37:37   criticism in the tech industry this [TS]

00:37:39   would have been an easier road to hoe [TS]

00:37:40   that pcs wouldn't have been mired in [TS]

00:37:42   that get over so long where it was just [TS]

00:37:44   about stats because I think that really [TS]

00:37:46   hurt the industry was just nerds just [TS]

00:37:48   complaining about stats and it took [TS]

00:37:50   a first mover like Apple to break out [TS]

00:37:52   with the iMac and go completely in that [TS]

00:37:54   direction arguably they did it already [TS]

00:37:55   with the Mac of setting we're gonna make [TS]

00:37:57   a GUI it's easier to use you know it's [TS]

00:37:58   not a stat you can measure ease of use [TS]

00:38:00   is not a number we can put on a box what [TS]

00:38:01   we're telling you this is going to be [TS]

00:38:03   better trust us and some people did come [TS]

00:38:05   along with the program but it was a long [TS]

00:38:07   long road to hoe and still Apple's web [TS]

00:38:09   and in PC market share but in the [TS]

00:38:11   consumer electronics that's going the [TS]

00:38:13   other direction fast and the angle and [TS]

00:38:17   the article is that Steve Jobs is that [TS]

00:38:19   made that happen that he was Apple sort [TS]

00:38:20   of uber critic where there was no [TS]

00:38:22   external critics there was no external [TS]

00:38:24   source of the kind of criticism that [TS]

00:38:27   produces these good products so Steve [TS]

00:38:29   Jobs had to be the internal critics who [TS]

00:38:30   would tell people I don't care [TS]

00:38:32   you know what the storage capacity is or [TS]

00:38:34   what the megahertz rating is I just want [TS]

00:38:36   the product to be good in the ways that [TS]

00:38:37   I care about that have very little to do [TS]

00:38:39   with stats and by him internal [TS]

00:38:41   internally facing being that kind of [TS]

00:38:42   critic it allowed the company to build [TS]

00:38:45   these products to a different standard [TS]

00:38:47   than the outside products and again it [TS]

00:38:50   took a long time for consumers to start [TS]

00:38:51   to accept those and going into the [TS]

00:38:53   consumer realm really helped that but [TS]

00:38:55   from the very beginning he was using his [TS]

00:38:57   criteria his much more mature criteria [TS]

00:39:00   of what it is that makes a great product [TS]

00:39:02   that goes way beyond the numbers and [TS]

00:39:05   that was trying to give the the value [TS]

00:39:08   explain the value of criticism in the [TS]

00:39:10   computer industry I think it wrapped it [TS]

00:39:13   up with something telling people the [TS]

00:39:14   value of criticism in their own lives [TS]

00:39:16   and stuff and that's a more dubious [TS]

00:39:18   value but I think we'll get into that [TS]

00:39:20   now with the final bit which is [TS]

00:39:22   criticism online which I didn't really [TS]

00:39:24   talk about in the article but I think is [TS]

00:39:25   kind of the meat of what we want to talk [TS]

00:39:27   about here because you've talked about [TS]

00:39:28   it on your other shows as well I think [TS]

00:39:31   one of the very early build and analyzes [TS]

00:39:34   with Marco he mentioned that he does not [TS]

00:39:37   want to blog about tech topics do you [TS]

00:39:39   remember that conversation yeah yeah [TS]

00:39:40   just because the repercussions from it [TS]

00:39:42   are that the feedback is usually [TS]

00:39:46   incredibly passionate in a frequently [TS]

00:39:49   negative way yeah and so a lot of people [TS]

00:39:53   just blog about tech topics but Marcos [TS]

00:39:54   blog is kind of you know [TS]

00:39:56   he goes different but it here's what [TS]

00:39:59   does blog about tough targets he's [TS]

00:40:00   finding it he gets different types of [TS]

00:40:02   feedback because once you start talking [TS]

00:40:03   about [TS]

00:40:04   things that nerds like I guess or stats [TS]

00:40:06   and numbers you get a lot of unsolicited [TS]

00:40:09   advice let's say right if you're just [TS]

00:40:11   describing this is how I did something [TS]

00:40:12   hey I had a problem in my house and I [TS]

00:40:14   wanted to hear music in this room so I [TS]

00:40:16   set up the server over here to do this [TS]

00:40:17   and I connected this cable to that thing [TS]

00:40:18   and I put this off around here and [TS]

00:40:20   that's how I let myself you know listen [TS]

00:40:22   to songs in the shower without moving my [TS]

00:40:24   iTunes through my Mac Mini in the other [TS]

00:40:25   room right that's your blog post just [TS]

00:40:27   like I'm sharing something that I that I [TS]

00:40:30   did what you get in response to that is [TS]

00:40:32   all the ways that you could have done [TS]

00:40:33   that differently or better you shouldn't [TS]

00:40:35   have used this piece of software if you [TS]

00:40:37   use this you could do that better you [TS]

00:40:39   know really if you did you pay money for [TS]

00:40:41   that there's an open-source equivalent [TS]

00:40:43   that you should have used and you should [TS]

00:40:44   be using flat files or OGG Vorbis [TS]

00:40:46   instead of AAC blah blah right then [TS]

00:40:49   that's the kind version the harsher more [TS]

00:40:51   harsh version is like I'm I'm running a [TS]

00:40:54   service that you all use like let me [TS]

00:40:55   tell you how I set up the Instapaper [TS]

00:40:57   servers you're all instapaper users and [TS]

00:40:58   here's what I do for the Instapaper [TS]

00:41:00   servers for the backup process I think [TS]

00:41:01   this is actually close to example that [TS]

00:41:03   he did like here's what I do for the [TS]

00:41:05   backup process of the instapaper [TS]

00:41:07   infrastructure and then all these [TS]

00:41:08   tech-savvy Instapaper users said oh my [TS]

00:41:11   god you can't do that for your backups [TS]

00:41:12   you have to do this and that and the [TS]

00:41:13   other thing my data is safe now and blah [TS]

00:41:15   blah blah all sorts of you know again [TS]

00:41:18   unprompted it wasn't like the blog post [TS]

00:41:20   was like hey guys tell me how you think [TS]

00:41:22   I should do this it was more like this [TS]

00:41:23   is how I've done it and I'm sharing it [TS]

00:41:25   with you and then you get this torrent [TS]

00:41:27   of feedback um so that's that was Markos [TS]

00:41:31   problem with it with feedback at least [TS]

00:41:32   the one that he talked about there the [TS]

00:41:35   other one was a Gruber I don't know if [TS]

00:41:37   he's ever talked about this on your [TS]

00:41:38   podcast but I know he talked about on [TS]

00:41:40   the Macworld podcast years ago I put the [TS]

00:41:42   link in the show notes actually link to [TS]

00:41:43   a blog post links to the the podcast and [TS]

00:41:46   if you ever talked about the lack of [TS]

00:41:47   comments on daring fireball with him no [TS]

00:41:49   that's on my list but I've talked to him [TS]

00:41:51   about it personally but I don't think [TS]

00:41:54   we've really done it on the show as a [TS]

00:41:55   topic yeah he's he's covered in lots of [TS]

00:41:57   other plate like it's been discussed to [TS]

00:41:59   death I feel like but it is kind of a [TS]

00:42:02   long I think he blogged about it [TS]

00:42:03   tangentially a few times and he did that [TS]

00:42:05   podcast about it this was about 2006 or [TS]

00:42:07   something on a long time ago or they [TS]

00:42:09   just said point bike why don't you have [TS]

00:42:10   comments that he explained it in a [TS]

00:42:11   straightforward manner why he doesn't [TS]

00:42:12   have comments and I'll try to summarize [TS]

00:42:14   what he said people should listen to the [TS]

00:42:15   actual podcast to hear you know from [TS]

00:42:17   horse's mouth so to speak but what he [TS]

00:42:20   was basically saying is that he's not [TS]

00:42:22   interested in that type of feedback and [TS]

00:42:24   he wants to present son of a kind of [TS]

00:42:25   clean interface to the people who are [TS]

00:42:27   coming to read daring fireballer the key [TS]

00:42:30   phrase I remember is that he says when [TS]

00:42:31   people come to Darren fireball I want [TS]

00:42:33   them to read every single word on the [TS]

00:42:34   site and that's and I want to write [TS]

00:42:36   every single one of those words so it's [TS]

00:42:38   not you know what some Diouf said you [TS]

00:42:40   read some really insightful article and [TS]

00:42:42   the first comment is first post or some [TS]

00:42:44   you know racist slur or a viagra ad or [TS]

00:42:46   some other you know it kind of you know [TS]

00:42:49   takes away from the experience so this [TS]

00:42:51   is coming from a different angle [TS]

00:42:52   not so much I don't want to hear what [TS]

00:42:54   people have to say because it gets time [TS]

00:42:55   to feedback email I'm sure but I don't [TS]

00:42:57   want other people's words on my site [TS]

00:42:59   because this is my site than the [TS]

00:43:00   experience I want to present is just my [TS]

00:43:02   words in the amount that I want them and [TS]

00:43:04   you know you have your own site for [TS]

00:43:05   putting your own stuff on you know it [TS]

00:43:07   shows I think it shows there's so many [TS]

00:43:09   people who say that without without [TS]

00:43:12   providing users a channel to interact [TS]

00:43:15   with you that you'll never be successful [TS]

00:43:16   and yet I would say he has been by any [TS]

00:43:19   measure well the thing is there's so [TS]

00:43:22   many channels to interact with him it's [TS]

00:43:23   not as if he's like the Internet is [TS]

00:43:25   still there yeah now hum you can do your [TS]

00:43:27   own blog post you know he's got his [TS]

00:43:29   vanity Google search going like crazy so [TS]

00:43:30   if you link to him he'll find you and [TS]

00:43:32   read what you have to say it's not as if [TS]

00:43:33   he's like in a cocoon like I don't want [TS]

00:43:34   to hear what anybody's saying right you [TS]

00:43:36   want that there doesn't want a sign on [TS]

00:43:38   it that those are his words right that's [TS]

00:43:40   it so now these two these two stances on [TS]

00:43:45   comments I'm gonna give you my take on [TS]

00:43:47   it in light of that whole thing we just [TS]

00:43:48   talked about with criticism ah and what [TS]

00:43:52   I'm going to say is true for me just as [TS]

00:43:53   it's just as what Gruber Marco said is [TS]

00:43:55   true for them so it's not an endorsement [TS]

00:43:57   of one particular philosophy or the [TS]

00:44:00   other is really just you know another [TS]

00:44:02   viewpoint into the stew here now my [TS]

00:44:07   articles that ours do have comments [TS]

00:44:09   every article at RSS comments which I [TS]

00:44:12   subset would you like an I love comments [TS]

00:44:15   now ours kinda has the best of both [TS]

00:44:16   worlds in it when you look at an article [TS]

00:44:18   at ours you don't see a single comment [TS]

00:44:20   so that gets rid of the stupid thing [TS]

00:44:21   where someone gets to the end of your [TS]

00:44:23   wonderful insightful article and then [TS]

00:44:24   the next sentence they read is something [TS]

00:44:26   horrible and offensive stupid and [TS]

00:44:27   obnoxious you don't even see those [TS]

00:44:29   because it's you [TS]

00:44:31   to click to see the comments so it has [TS]

00:44:34   the advantage of a site that's not you [TS]

00:44:37   know wrapped up with other people's [TS]

00:44:39   inane words but I do like to see the [TS]

00:44:41   comments on what I write and I love the [TS]

00:44:43   comments I love everything about the [TS]

00:44:45   comments I love the good comments left [TS]

00:44:46   the bad comments I love everything [TS]

00:44:47   because in light of this whole criticism [TS]

00:44:51   thing when I see comments and anything [TS]

00:44:53   that I write I want to see people [TS]

00:44:56   criticizing it or trying to criticize it [TS]

00:44:58   or saying what they didn't like about it [TS]

00:45:00   and individually those comments may be [TS]

00:45:02   you know this guy didn't understand what [TS]

00:45:04   I was saying this guy is has some other [TS]

00:45:07   axe to grind or this is totally wrong or [TS]

00:45:09   whatever but in aggregate combined [TS]

00:45:12   together if you if you write a big thing [TS]

00:45:14   and it's 50 of the 400 people who [TS]

00:45:16   comment all have some particular [TS]

00:45:18   complaint whether you disagree with that [TS]

00:45:20   or not I feel like that's time to figure [TS]

00:45:24   out what it is that they're on about [TS]

00:45:25   like my view is that in aggregate [TS]

00:45:29   there's some kernel of truth underlying [TS]

00:45:31   every negative thing said about you [TS]

00:45:33   online and doesn't mean what they say is [TS]

00:45:35   true it may mean maybe like a [TS]

00:45:37   third-order effect where they're mad [TS]

00:45:38   about X and then made them mad about Y [TS]

00:45:41   and then they said Z and Z you know you [TS]

00:45:44   can say well the Z is totally not true [TS]

00:45:45   well so why are they saying that why why [TS]

00:45:47   are some large percentage of people [TS]

00:45:48   complaining about this what what is [TS]

00:45:50   possibly true about a milder version is [TS]

00:45:52   that if someone says this thing was too [TS]

00:45:54   long or I was bored or you talked about [TS]

00:45:59   topic X for too long [TS]

00:46:00   one or two guys are always going to say [TS]

00:46:01   that right but if half your audience [TS]

00:46:03   says you talked about X for too long [TS]

00:46:04   it's time to think about that is it time [TS]

00:46:07   to say maybe I did think about X too [TS]

00:46:08   long no maybe you just talked about it [TS]

00:46:10   and didn't make it interesting enough or [TS]

00:46:11   maybe you didn't do a good job of [TS]

00:46:13   explaining why it was relevant or you [TS]

00:46:15   know the 50 other reasons to think about [TS]

00:46:17   what what the problem might be but you [TS]

00:46:19   know I there's tremendous value in that [TS]

00:46:23   feedback now that feedback and come by [TS]

00:46:24   email too but I found that the comment [TS]

00:46:26   feedback tends to be like more more evil [TS]

00:46:29   more evil than email feedback II people [TS]

00:46:31   email you generally tend to be pull up [TS]

00:46:33   more polite than comment stuff because [TS]

00:46:34   there's no audience that was the I [TS]

00:46:36   should link to this the took a point [TS]

00:46:39   really good point [TS]

00:46:40   Gabriel some something something Gabriel [TS]

00:46:45   law of Internet dickwads help me out uh [TS]

00:46:46   nice zip it's a penny it's a penny [TS]

00:46:49   arcade's strip and basically it's a [TS]

00:46:50   blackboard with an equation that says [TS]

00:46:51   anonymity plus audience equals jerk [TS]

00:46:54   although I think it uses a more harsh [TS]

00:46:56   word and it's the fact that everyone can [TS]

00:46:58   read KJ Healy says internet dick one [TS]

00:47:02   theory yeah it has a longer name to [TS]

00:47:04   someone from the chatroom we'll get it [TS]

00:47:05   eventually I'll put it in the show notes [TS]

00:47:06   but the fact that comments are out there [TS]

00:47:08   for everybody to read and have an [TS]

00:47:09   audience that makes people misbehave [TS]

00:47:11   because they're not they're not just [TS]

00:47:12   communicating with you comments are [TS]

00:47:13   communicating with you and they know [TS]

00:47:15   that everyone else is going to read the [TS]

00:47:16   comments too so they have an audience [TS]

00:47:17   for stuff so it's very different from [TS]

00:47:20   email where they think they have the [TS]

00:47:21   only expectations that you are you're [TS]

00:47:22   the person who's going to read this they [TS]

00:47:24   are writing for you but they're also [TS]

00:47:25   writing for their audience to try to [TS]

00:47:27   pump themselves up in the eyes of their [TS]

00:47:29   audience to try to make themselves feel [TS]

00:47:30   better about themselves for putting down [TS]

00:47:32   some popular writer in a comment type of [TS]

00:47:34   you know atmosphere speaking about [TS]

00:47:36   someone put in the in the chat room and [TS]

00:47:37   I already have in the show notes the [TS]

00:47:39   daring fireball with comments Safari [TS]

00:47:40   extension have you ever seen that yeah I [TS]

00:47:42   have yeah that's that's great and I [TS]

00:47:45   actually run that sometimes I'm sure [TS]

00:47:46   Gruber hates that but because I want to [TS]

00:47:48   see what people people have to say now [TS]

00:47:49   if obviously a self-selected audience of [TS]

00:47:51   people with an axe to grind against crib [TS]

00:47:53   or whatever but every once in a while I [TS]

00:47:55   fire it up and I peek at what people are [TS]

00:47:57   commenting on the articles most of them [TS]

00:47:59   are bad because again it's self selected [TS]

00:48:01   for people who are inclined not to like [TS]

00:48:02   stuff but every once in a while this is [TS]

00:48:04   a little you know funny nugget in there [TS]

00:48:05   or insightful nugget buried in and all [TS]

00:48:08   the the dreck but it just goes to show [TS]

00:48:10   how desperate people are to have an [TS]

00:48:12   audience in a place on a popular site [TS]

00:48:14   via uh and and so the other thing about [TS]

00:48:19   comments aside from email is that it's [TS]

00:48:21   less of a barrier then then sending an [TS]

00:48:24   email certainly less of a barrier than [TS]

00:48:26   doing your own response blog post and [TS]

00:48:27   again that's good in bed it's good that [TS]

00:48:29   there's a barrier because it keeps out [TS]

00:48:31   the people who just have one stupid [TS]

00:48:32   comment to say they're not going to do a [TS]

00:48:34   whole blog post about their one stupid [TS]

00:48:36   snarky thing and they're probably not [TS]

00:48:38   even going to email you their snarky [TS]

00:48:39   thing but if there's a comment box of [TS]

00:48:40   the bottom an article that put it there [TS]

00:48:42   but there's also advantages to that low [TS]

00:48:44   barrier and one of the advantages is [TS]

00:48:45   that you get things like typos or [TS]

00:48:49   factual errors reported really fast [TS]

00:48:50   because people who know too factual are [TS]

00:48:52   when they're reading like you have that [TS]

00:48:54   finger laziness we're like all done so I [TS]

00:48:56   want to I want to start a new email find [TS]

00:48:58   the [TS]

00:48:58   guys email address and send an email and [TS]

00:49:00   type it in and put a subject line [TS]

00:49:02   duelist you know it seems like more work [TS]

00:49:04   but if I can just scroll to the bottom [TS]

00:49:05   of this box type in my name or if I'm [TS]

00:49:07   already logged into the site with some [TS]

00:49:08   other thing and hit it button on the [TS]

00:49:10   same page that I'm already reading I can [TS]

00:49:12   say hey you left that letter e on this [TS]

00:49:13   thing or hey you missed a semicolon [TS]

00:49:14   there or actually you know this thing [TS]

00:49:17   came out in this year and not in that [TS]

00:49:19   year and in the magic of online [TS]

00:49:21   publishing it's great to have that [TS]

00:49:23   feedback as fast as possible and with [TS]

00:49:25   the biggest volume is possible the [TS]

00:49:26   comments are kind of like the chatroom [TS]

00:49:27   of the the you know the 5x5 chatroom of [TS]

00:49:30   the the world of static writing instead [TS]

00:49:34   of podcasting you get this audience of [TS]

00:49:36   people collaborating to help you improve [TS]

00:49:38   your article in the first five minutes [TS]

00:49:40   that it's up right so the comments start [TS]

00:49:41   streaming in the errors and typos go in [TS]

00:49:43   there you fix them you refresh the [TS]

00:49:45   article and then you respond to them in [TS]

00:49:46   the comments and say that you fix them [TS]

00:49:48   and by the time the you know mm person [TS]

00:49:51   comes along a lot of the obvious errors [TS]

00:49:53   are gone and that's definitely something [TS]

00:49:55   I appreciate from from comments where [TS]

00:50:01   there's a low barrier to entry to [TS]

00:50:02   writing them up and the final thing I [TS]

00:50:06   have in this is something that came up a [TS]

00:50:09   few times in email and in the chat room [TS]

00:50:10   about the music that precedes this show [TS]

00:50:13   we had it was a lot of feedback about [TS]

00:50:15   that surprisingly yeah as we talked [TS]

00:50:18   about on the show if you Don so people [TS]

00:50:19   have it opinion with you like what was [TS]

00:50:20   the old song I forget what the name of [TS]

00:50:21   it was Rondo by Marais I think these are [TS]

00:50:27   both words that are not English so I [TS]

00:50:29   cannot pronounce them correctly so I [TS]

00:50:31   died all right I just do it once but [TS]

00:50:33   that's people people called the obonda [TS]

00:50:35   masterpiece theater yes it was a [TS]

00:50:37   reminiscent of that yeah and the new one [TS]

00:50:40   is some what is it a Mozart thing I [TS]

00:50:42   don't remember yeah that's a gallon it [TS]

00:50:44   is it is now what you wanted it to be [TS]

00:50:46   yeah and so originally when you were [TS]

00:50:48   looking at classical music themes you [TS]

00:50:49   you through went out to me and you said [TS]

00:50:50   what do you think of this one for [TS]

00:50:51   classical music and I did my typical [TS]

00:50:53   Hemant hawing about how I didn't want [TS]

00:50:55   any music at all but if we had to pick [TS]

00:50:56   one that one is fine but then when the [TS]

00:50:58   show came out you had put a different [TS]

00:50:59   song in front of it either because you [TS]

00:51:01   forgot what I suggested or because you [TS]

00:51:02   just picked a different one I just [TS]

00:51:04   picked it like I'm I can I complained [TS]

00:51:05   about it and then so you you brought [TS]

00:51:07   back the one that I originally had [TS]

00:51:09   picked right more recent shows so let me [TS]

00:51:11   get some email some people [TS]

00:51:12   I like the new song it's great other [TS]

00:51:14   people saying oh I missed the old song [TS]

00:51:15   so what do I do with this feedback like [TS]

00:51:17   it's not comments of his people [TS]

00:51:18   you know emailing or whatever but what [TS]

00:51:20   do I do with this criticism I've got [TS]

00:51:21   criticism 50/50 in both sides and I've [TS]

00:51:24   got my own opinion that I just like the [TS]

00:51:26   new one better but hearing enough people [TS]

00:51:27   say that they like the old one better [TS]

00:51:29   makes me think why why do they like the [TS]

00:51:31   old but they're like the olden better [TS]

00:51:32   just because it's the first one they [TS]

00:51:33   associated with the show now they met [TS]

00:51:34   you know you just fear of change anytime [TS]

00:51:36   you change anything like you change the [TS]

00:51:38   interface on a computer people flip out [TS]

00:51:39   because they're used to the old way or [TS]

00:51:40   whatever could that be it are you know [TS]

00:51:44   this probably some truth to that but [TS]

00:51:47   doesn't give me much actionable stuff to [TS]

00:51:48   go on so I'm just thinking maybe the [TS]

00:51:52   people like the old song some people [TS]

00:51:53   actually cited this and other people [TS]

00:51:54   didn't because because of the [TS]

00:51:56   masterpiece theater angle because it [TS]

00:51:58   sounded so ridiculously pompous and you [TS]

00:52:00   know silly that we're going to have the [TS]

00:52:01   show where we're going to complain about [TS]

00:52:02   stuff as if we're high and mighty and we [TS]

00:52:05   get to complain about everything right [TS]

00:52:06   and the music the music added humor [TS]

00:52:09   value and when I thought about it I [TS]

00:52:10   thought I kind of had that feeling about [TS]

00:52:12   the old song - initially I it repelled [TS]

00:52:15   me because like ah jeez I don't want [TS]

00:52:16   people to think that it's like [TS]

00:52:17   masterpiece theater now we will discuss [TS]

00:52:19   what is wrong with everything because [TS]

00:52:21   right that's why I picked that song [TS]

00:52:22   because yeah yeah but but again with the [TS]

00:52:25   Wolverine Steve Jobs thing it's tough to [TS]

00:52:27   say whether you know it's you know it's [TS]

00:52:30   ridiculous and I know it's ridiculous [TS]

00:52:32   but people can very quickly say this is [TS]

00:52:34   what they seriously think they're just [TS]

00:52:35   you know fold themselves so there's that [TS]

00:52:36   danger in there but I find that I like [TS]

00:52:39   it wore on me in terms of like I like [TS]

00:52:42   the humor angle of it eventually when it [TS]

00:52:44   became clear that people were willing to [TS]

00:52:45   understand that it was ridiculous to [TS]

00:52:46   even be thinking that this was sort of a [TS]

00:52:48   parody type thing that it did have that [TS]

00:52:51   desirable characteristic and added [TS]

00:52:53   something to the show so thinking about [TS]

00:52:54   these people's criticism instead of just [TS]

00:52:56   saying well I like what I like [TS]

00:52:57   and it seems to t-50 other way therefore [TS]

00:52:59   I just go with my opinion it you know [TS]

00:53:03   accepting criticism not at face value [TS]

00:53:06   but as as a valid form of feedback that [TS]

00:53:09   triggers you to think about something [TS]

00:53:10   gave me a better appreciation for the [TS]

00:53:12   old song I still like the new one better [TS]

00:53:14   I still said we stick with the new one [TS]

00:53:15   but I was even open to saying like when [TS]

00:53:17   I respond to that guy on Twitter maybe [TS]

00:53:19   leave it up to Dan maybe does 50/50 [TS]

00:53:20   maybe maybe he rotated maybe never know [TS]

00:53:22   what theme is going to be not because [TS]

00:53:23   again not because I like the old one [TS]

00:53:25   better than the new one [TS]

00:53:26   like the new one better but in this type [TS]

00:53:28   of environment if people like the old [TS]

00:53:30   one sometimes two maybe would be good to [TS]

00:53:32   mix it up or something I feel we I feel [TS]

00:53:34   like I don't I want to just pick [TS]

00:53:36   something and run with it yeah you want [TS]

00:53:38   to have you want to have solid type [TS]

00:53:39   branding and continuity but then you [TS]

00:53:41   wouldn't have changed at all after [TS]

00:53:42   tennis I changed it because you were so [TS]

00:53:45   compatible when oh it's I wanna you know [TS]

00:53:49   I want to keep you want to keep you [TS]

00:53:51   happy I know either what I'm saying now [TS]

00:53:53   is that either one is fine with me I [TS]

00:53:55   still like the new one better because I [TS]

00:53:57   think there's less of a chance of it [TS]

00:53:58   being confused for being sort of [TS]

00:54:01   attitudinal which definitely is not but [TS]

00:54:04   some people like the old one - I don't [TS]

00:54:07   want reams of feedback of people voting [TS]

00:54:09   for so long they want this is not a [TS]

00:54:10   democracy you don't get to pick which [TS]

00:54:12   song it is we'll just work with what we [TS]

00:54:17   have and if we want want to stick with [TS]

00:54:19   the new one we'll stick with the new one [TS]

00:54:20   if you want to change it back to the old [TS]

00:54:21   one for an episode or two we'll change [TS]

00:54:22   the back heel one you'll ever know yeah [TS]

00:54:24   it'll be a surprise you know I feel like [TS]

00:54:27   I you have you more to say about this [TS]

00:54:29   thing it's just so much to talk about [TS]

00:54:30   with with criticism and the whole [TS]

00:54:32   hypercritical code but I would encourage [TS]

00:54:34   people to go power their way through it [TS]

00:54:36   it's not that long it's maybe two three [TS]

00:54:38   screen folds of stuff it's got some [TS]

00:54:40   meandering in there but I think there's [TS]

00:54:43   some some value buried in that flabby [TS]

00:54:47   thing that I wrote and I would love to [TS]

00:54:48   actually discuss it with other people [TS]

00:54:50   have different opinions about criticism [TS]

00:54:52   because again I gave I gave my view on [TS]

00:54:55   criticism but really it what it comes [TS]

00:54:57   down to for individual is if having [TS]

00:55:01   comments on your site makes you feel bad [TS]

00:55:02   don't put comments on your site right if [TS]

00:55:04   not having comments on your site makes [TS]

00:55:06   you feel bad put them there like [TS]

00:55:07   whatever there's one issue you didn't [TS]

00:55:08   address about comments is that is and [TS]

00:55:12   this is the situation that I ran into on [TS]

00:55:14   type logic because for many years I had [TS]

00:55:16   no comments then I brought then I added [TS]

00:55:18   them and when I added them they worked [TS]

00:55:22   they were quite popular I mean some [TS]

00:55:23   posts would get hundreds of comments [TS]

00:55:25   that was not unusual and most of the [TS]

00:55:29   posts that I was writing after a while a [TS]

00:55:31   lot of the time I'd write about [TS]

00:55:32   technical things and I might do tutorial [TS]

00:55:35   on day you know how to install MySQL on [TS]

00:55:37   you know Mac OS tiger [TS]

00:55:39   for example and this is this is back [TS]

00:55:41   before homebrew and other things that [TS]

00:55:43   made it much easier to do that kind of [TS]

00:55:45   thing but I would I would write these [TS]

00:55:47   tutorials and any time you write a [TS]

00:55:50   tutorial it's not going to work for [TS]

00:55:51   everybody even though you test it and [TS]

00:55:53   you try it on multiple machines you make [TS]

00:55:54   sure it works you show it to two people [TS]

00:55:56   and have them try it and everybody says [TS]

00:55:58   it works there's always going to be [TS]

00:56:00   somebody who either they mistyped [TS]

00:56:02   something they made a mistake they [TS]

00:56:04   didn't follow every step or there's a [TS]

00:56:08   there's an install something else [TS]

00:56:10   installed on their own system that's [TS]

00:56:11   going to create a problem or an [TS]

00:56:13   inconsistency or they've already [TS]

00:56:14   monkeyed around with things now for [TS]

00:56:16   whatever reason something doesn't work [TS]

00:56:18   and maybe and legitimately in some cases [TS]

00:56:20   the instructions have had a few issues [TS]

00:56:22   here and there too so you know people [TS]

00:56:25   would find those they're going to post [TS]

00:56:26   those to the comments well if I don't [TS]

00:56:29   and and this is true for the [TS]

00:56:31   non-technical ones too of course but [TS]

00:56:32   it's even it's even more of an issue for [TS]

00:56:34   the technical ones because people treat [TS]

00:56:36   this like oh well that this is the Bible [TS]

00:56:38   that's the Google said this was the [TS]

00:56:40   number one result for installing it so I [TS]

00:56:42   this has to be right and and and what [TS]

00:56:45   wouldn't be right they would they would [TS]

00:56:47   put a comment in and say actually I ran [TS]

00:56:49   this on this system and this is the [TS]

00:56:50   message I got please help well then I'm [TS]

00:56:54   a jerk if I don't sit there and reload [TS]

00:56:56   my comments every single hour of every [TS]

00:56:58   day and reply to every single person who [TS]

00:57:00   has a problem and solve it for them now [TS]

00:57:03   this is a specific unique kind of case [TS]

00:57:05   right but there are a lot of situations [TS]

00:57:07   where if you write a piece that is [TS]

00:57:09   somewhat controversial and I saw this a [TS]

00:57:11   lot of the time with the comments on on [TS]

00:57:13   a list apart when I wrote that CMS we [TS]

00:57:18   would see that a lot that people would [TS]

00:57:19   you know an author would go and write [TS]

00:57:22   this piece they they're not even [TS]

00:57:24   thinking that it's controversial or even [TS]

00:57:26   you know they're hoping it's interesting [TS]

00:57:28   enough for people to read it it turns [TS]

00:57:30   out it they proposed something that's [TS]

00:57:32   controversial as some CSS thing that oh [TS]

00:57:34   my gosh I can't believe you would have [TS]

00:57:36   proposed this and then they'll get [TS]

00:57:38   hundreds of comments for people [TS]

00:57:39   basically calling them out or insulting [TS]

00:57:41   them or or whatever whatever you see in [TS]

00:57:43   comments and meanwhile the author didn't [TS]

00:57:45   even know it they just submitted this [TS]

00:57:47   piece to a list apart and they got told [TS]

00:57:48   it was going to be published and they're [TS]

00:57:50   off you know giving some talk in Belgium [TS]

00:57:52   so [TS]

00:57:53   it's you know then they look like a jerk [TS]

00:57:55   because they're not responding they're [TS]

00:57:56   ignoring people and comments are very [TS]

00:57:58   much a responsibility I think of the [TS]

00:58:01   site if not the author too to get in [TS]

00:58:03   there and and respond and that's the [TS]

00:58:05   reason why I just don't like comments [TS]

00:58:07   anymore because to be honest and I've [TS]

00:58:10   gone back and forth on on the 5x5 site [TS]

00:58:12   saying yeah I should I should do [TS]

00:58:13   comments I should put comments there but [TS]

00:58:15   that's um I want to hear from you about [TS]

00:58:17   what is is there an obligation as the [TS]

00:58:20   author as a creator is the owner of a [TS]

00:58:21   website or a curator to jump in and do [TS]

00:58:26   that because to two parts of this one is [TS]

00:58:29   the the more cut-and-dried part but you [TS]

00:58:31   didn't mention too much with just spam [TS]

00:58:32   spam by robots or even by people spam is [TS]

00:58:36   a factor on comments terrible and it's [TS]

00:58:38   kind of like it's a factor where [TS]

00:58:40   personal opinion doesn't go into it much [TS]

00:58:41   I don't think anybody what likes to read [TS]

00:58:44   spam comments and no one likes to [TS]

00:58:46   receive them so they're just they're a [TS]

00:58:47   fact of life like the weather when you [TS]

00:58:50   sign up for comments you are also [TS]

00:58:51   signing up for the responsibility of [TS]

00:58:52   dealing with spam as I would say you [TS]

00:58:54   can't have comments unless you are [TS]

00:58:56   willing to take that responsibility so [TS]

00:58:58   this has nothing to do with personal [TS]

00:58:59   feelings or anything that is just like [TS]

00:59:00   you just got a deal with it so right [TS]

00:59:02   right off the bat that's enough to kill [TS]

00:59:05   comments on in lots of situations but [TS]

00:59:07   you can say I love to have comments I [TS]

00:59:08   love everything about comments but I [TS]

00:59:10   simply do not have the time to deal with [TS]

00:59:12   spam yeah and that's you know that's [TS]

00:59:13   that's cut and dry so we don't need to [TS]

00:59:15   talk about that too much except for the [TS]

00:59:16   fact that like like when you asked about [TS]

00:59:18   comments for the site I I've said to you [TS]

00:59:21   know don't do comments because do you [TS]

00:59:23   really have time to deal with all that [TS]

00:59:25   spam games like you're you know you've [TS]

00:59:27   got too much other stuff to do [TS]

00:59:28   it's not along the critical path for now [TS]

00:59:30   maybe someday later where you can have [TS]

00:59:31   someone deal with the comments and then [TS]

00:59:33   that will not be a factor anymore we can [TS]

00:59:35   talk about other factors right [TS]

00:59:36   so other factors I've tried ties into [TS]

00:59:38   what you were saying about your my [TS]

00:59:39   sequel post but when I talked earlier [TS]

00:59:41   about doing what feels good for you [TS]

00:59:44   someone said that it was a cop-out that [TS]

00:59:46   you know don't be wishy-washy give give [TS]

00:59:48   strong sort of advice about what you [TS]

00:59:49   should do is criticism good or bad [TS]

00:59:51   should you have comments yes or no and [TS]

00:59:53   again I think they were just being silly [TS]

00:59:54   but there's there's something to that in [TS]

00:59:57   that when you were saying about the my [TS]

00:59:59   sequel thing [TS]

00:59:59   sequel thing [TS]

01:00:00   think we're you you post that type of [TS]

01:00:01   article that goes out of date you don't [TS]

01:00:04   have I guess you didn't have the [TS]

01:00:05   comments close on it that's another [TS]

01:00:06   that's another hedge against this if you [TS]

01:00:08   have the comments cut off after a [TS]

01:00:09   certain point when the article gets to a [TS]

01:00:10   certain age yeah yeah the door closes [TS]

01:00:12   but yeah ignoring that for now and then [TS]

01:00:15   someone comes in comments and says they [TS]

01:00:16   have a problem and what you said is that [TS]

01:00:18   you said as you know and then I'm the [TS]

01:00:19   jerk for not helping they look like a [TS]

01:00:21   jerk to other people who might read this [TS]

01:00:22   to say hey this guy but these [TS]

01:00:23   instructions and then people had all [TS]

01:00:24   these problems and like the bottom 50% [TS]

01:00:26   of the comments is people complaining [TS]

01:00:27   about problems and now they think you as [TS]

01:00:30   the owner of the page or a jerk because [TS]

01:00:31   you didn't help these people yes well so [TS]

01:00:33   that that right there is when it changes [TS]

01:00:36   from let's discuss the value of comments [TS]

01:00:40   or whatever - how do you feel about [TS]

01:00:42   because if you feel like a jerk nothing [TS]

01:00:45   anyone's going to say is going to make [TS]

01:00:46   you not feel like a jerk you feel like a [TS]

01:00:48   jerk because you feel like you have a [TS]

01:00:49   responsibility to those people to help [TS]

01:00:51   them and you don't want to feel like a [TS]

01:00:53   jerk so you're not going to do that and [TS]

01:00:54   there's nothing you can say about well [TS]

01:00:56   really you should know the comments are [TS]

01:00:57   just wonderful because they help you [TS]

01:00:58   learn about what you're doing wrong blah [TS]

01:01:00   blah blah doesn't matter if you feel [TS]

01:01:02   like a jerk that means you've decided [TS]

01:01:03   your value system is that I have a [TS]

01:01:04   responsibility to the readers of my site [TS]

01:01:06   to tell this or even if your value [TS]

01:01:08   system is simply I don't want other [TS]

01:01:09   people to think I'm a jerk because when [TS]

01:01:11   they read this it looks like I'm a jerk [TS]

01:01:13   that that's that's a value judgment on [TS]

01:01:15   how you feel about something there's [TS]

01:01:17   nothing inherently jerky I would say [TS]

01:01:20   objectively about having a blog post at [TS]

01:01:22   3 years later has a bunch of people who [TS]

01:01:24   are having problems with it because it [TS]

01:01:25   is old because like if you have a date [TS]

01:01:27   header anywhere on that post anyone with [TS]

01:01:29   a brain can look at it and say well this [TS]

01:01:30   thing was written in 2004 so yeah you're [TS]

01:01:32   having problems you know like it there's [TS]

01:01:35   nothing I would you there's nothing in [TS]

01:01:37   there that says you know you were doing [TS]

01:01:38   something that's bad people right but if [TS]

01:01:41   you feel like you're doing something bad [TS]

01:01:42   to people it means you hope you feel [TS]

01:01:43   like you have a responsibility to you [TS]

01:01:45   know to help people or to help everyone [TS]

01:01:47   who comes to your side urge at least or [TS]

01:01:49   maybe you just feel like everyone's [TS]

01:01:50   ability to not look like you're you know [TS]

01:01:51   you're a jerk in your own eyes on the [TS]

01:01:53   site they had some of the personal [TS]

01:01:54   decision and is a value judgment that [TS]

01:01:56   has nothing to do with the inherent [TS]

01:01:58   quality of the comments or the nature of [TS]

01:02:00   comments everything to do with how you [TS]

01:02:01   feel as a person about that now I'll [TS]

01:02:03   give an example for me for me if I was [TS]

01:02:05   in that situation I would not feel like [TS]

01:02:07   a jerk because I would say look anybody [TS]

01:02:08   who comes to this thing and thinks I'm a [TS]

01:02:09   jerk because a bunch of people in you [TS]

01:02:12   know a post from [TS]

01:02:13   2004 are having problems now in 2011 [TS]

01:02:17   because the instructions don't work for [TS]

01:02:18   them on their Snow Leopard system anyone [TS]

01:02:20   who thinks I'm a jerk because they can't [TS]

01:02:22   read the date header there I'm willing [TS]

01:02:23   to be a jerk in their eyes so I'm [TS]

01:02:24   willing to say if you can't figure out [TS]

01:02:26   that systems change over time and and [TS]

01:02:30   these instructions don't work you can't [TS]

01:02:31   be bothered to read the date hitter you [TS]

01:02:33   can't figure out that this is old then [TS]

01:02:34   I'm okay with you thinking I'm a jerk [TS]

01:02:36   because it doesn't bother me in the [TS]

01:02:37   slightest because I feel like it's not [TS]

01:02:39   my responsibility to keep everything I [TS]

01:02:41   ever wrote up to date forever if I wrote [TS]

01:02:42   instructions and I put this for this [TS]

01:02:44   version of the software and here's a [TS]

01:02:45   date header whenever and you can't deal [TS]

01:02:46   with that I don't I don't feel that [TS]

01:02:48   problem that all seems they'll with [TS]

01:02:49   email like some people feel bad when [TS]

01:02:51   they don't respond to every piece of [TS]

01:02:53   email and it's like this great personal [TS]

01:02:54   struggle to get to the point where they [TS]

01:02:55   can not respond to all their emails I've [TS]

01:02:57   never felt that profound but I've never [TS]

01:03:00   felt any compunction to not responding [TS]

01:03:02   to im's not responding to emails [TS]

01:03:03   anything like that and it's not because [TS]

01:03:05   I get so many of them isn't so popular [TS]

01:03:07   and I just can't deal with the day load [TS]

01:03:08   it's just simply that I've never had a [TS]

01:03:10   problem not responding to stuff like [TS]

01:03:12   that because everyone has their own [TS]

01:03:13   priorities in terms of how these things [TS]

01:03:15   make you feel and that's what you have [TS]

01:03:17   to make the decisions on because you're [TS]

01:03:18   not here to like conform to everyone [TS]

01:03:21   else's opinion of what's right or wrong [TS]

01:03:23   about things you're here to have you [TS]

01:03:24   know a good time doing whatever is [TS]

01:03:25   you're doing especially for me where [TS]

01:03:27   it's mostly recreational this online [TS]

01:03:28   writing thing and stuff like that I'm [TS]

01:03:29   you know I have my set of what I feel [TS]

01:03:32   responsible for and you know putting out [TS]

01:03:34   good content being correct on the facts [TS]

01:03:36   and stuff like that but I don't feel [TS]

01:03:38   that responsibility in terms of [TS]

01:03:39   communication because if I did I would [TS]

01:03:41   you know again I don't get that much [TS]

01:03:44   stuff but if I responded every single [TS]

01:03:45   email I got it would just take up so [TS]

01:03:46   much my day and I would just come to [TS]

01:03:48   dread it and hate it not that it's such [TS]

01:03:49   a huge volume but a two paragraph email [TS]

01:03:52   like if I respond to it like really [TS]

01:03:53   respond to it I respond to it for three [TS]

01:03:55   pages and every time I do something bad [TS]

01:03:57   I'm like look I'm responding to one [TS]

01:03:58   person I'm spending all this time but a [TS]

01:04:00   big giant response into one person's [TS]

01:04:02   email and no one is getting benefit of [TS]

01:04:03   this except for this one guy would would [TS]

01:04:06   this guy's question be better for me to [TS]

01:04:08   address in a public forum where whatever [TS]

01:04:10   it is I have to say about it can be read [TS]

01:04:11   by the 7 other people who can email me [TS]

01:04:12   on exactly the same topic you know what [TS]

01:04:14   I mean it's the same reason that I like [TS]

01:04:16   most of the 5x5 feedback I do respond to [TS]

01:04:19   with a one or two liner [TS]

01:04:20   especially if it's just something simple [TS]

01:04:22   about hey did you know about this or [TS]

01:04:23   what about that those are easy to do but [TS]

01:04:25   mostly what I'll take from those is the [TS]

01:04:27   ones [TS]

01:04:27   don't respond to is that I'll throw that [TS]

01:04:29   into the feedback and like someone [TS]

01:04:30   wanted to know about this and we'll talk [TS]

01:04:31   about it on the show where everybody can [TS]

01:04:32   hear about it I'm drifting off a little [TS]

01:04:35   bit here but I want to get to visit the [TS]

01:04:37   whole the whole angle on the comments [TS]

01:04:38   thing was it the the nugget of truth [TS]

01:04:41   buried null is whenever you came to the [TS]

01:04:43   conclusion this happens this happens [TS]

01:04:44   therefore I'm the jerk I feel like a [TS]

01:04:46   jerk I feel a responsibility that's [TS]

01:04:49   everything to do with what you feel [TS]

01:04:51   about that and that's why I think giving [TS]

01:04:53   some sort of hard and fast advice of you [TS]

01:04:54   should always have comments you should [TS]

01:04:55   never have comments it's pointless [TS]

01:04:57   because like what are we all doing here [TS]

01:04:59   we're not we're not here to try to [TS]

01:05:02   satisfy everyone else's opinion to what [TS]

01:05:03   we should be doing if we're trying to do [TS]

01:05:05   what we want to do so decide what you [TS]

01:05:06   want to do decide what you're [TS]

01:05:07   comfortable with and do it [TS]

01:05:09   the whole big thing I said about Y value [TS]

01:05:11   comments stuff you know people's [TS]

01:05:13   opinions change so maybe perhaps someone [TS]

01:05:15   who was on the fence about comments [TS]

01:05:16   would maybe think well you know that guy [TS]

01:05:18   was talking about criticism and stuff [TS]

01:05:19   and how he gets value out of the [TS]

01:05:21   comments and maybe I'll give it a try [TS]

01:05:22   because he's pushed me over the edge I [TS]

01:05:23   was on the fence about it maybe I'll [TS]

01:05:25   maybe I'll try this out maybe I'll see [TS]

01:05:26   if I can get a little bit more value [TS]

01:05:27   from these comments that I did before [TS]

01:05:28   maybe it will help me to be less [TS]

01:05:30   offended or less bothered by situations [TS]

01:05:32   because now I know there's someone else [TS]

01:05:33   out there who isn't bothered by that you [TS]

01:05:35   know and it takes a long time like if [TS]

01:05:37   you haven't been on line for a long time [TS]

01:05:39   I remember when I first start on the [TS]

01:05:40   Internet you know typical Internet noob [TS]

01:05:42   just arguing with everybody getting [TS]

01:05:43   offended about everything personally [TS]

01:05:45   identifying with the Mac platform and [TS]

01:05:46   doing all these Mac Windows PC Wars you [TS]

01:05:48   know what I mean but after a decade or [TS]

01:05:51   two of it you tend to develop more of a [TS]

01:05:52   thick skin but some people never develop [TS]

01:05:54   it is especially on certain topics like [TS]

01:05:55   Marco has not developed a thick skin [TS]

01:05:58   about dealing with what other people [TS]

01:06:00   have to say about his tech steps [TS]

01:06:01   otherwise he would just do tech blog [TS]

01:06:02   post and not really care what the heck [TS]

01:06:04   anyone else says maybe he'll never get [TS]

01:06:07   to that point but getting at that point [TS]

01:06:08   is not like a like a finish line it's [TS]

01:06:10   like you get a prize for it you feel the [TS]

01:06:12   way you feel about it's not hurting him [TS]

01:06:13   in terms of you know is his life choices [TS]

01:06:15   that he he's you know he gets annoyed by [TS]

01:06:18   a technical feedback and stuff [TS]

01:06:20   some people just find things more [TS]

01:06:21   annoying than other people I the reason [TS]

01:06:23   I don't find it annoying is because I [TS]

01:06:24   ignored the same reason that you know [TS]

01:06:26   Gruber probably doesn't find a lot of [TS]

01:06:27   his harsh feedback as annoying as other [TS]

01:06:29   people might think because he's decided [TS]

01:06:32   that this feedback is you know that he [TS]

01:06:34   disagrees with it's just so we just have [TS]

01:06:36   to agree to disagree and it doesn't [TS]

01:06:37   weigh on him that like it was a certain [TS]

01:06:39   group of people we feel he should calm [TS]

01:06:41   he's decided what he wants on his site [TS]

01:06:42   and he's not put upon but all these [TS]

01:06:44   people saying you should really have [TS]

01:06:45   comments you know so that's why I think [TS]

01:06:47   this really is a personal issue and it's [TS]

01:06:49   more of a again more of a Merlyn topic [TS]

01:06:51   than a then perhaps a a tech topic or an [TS]

01:06:55   Apple topic especially when it comes to [TS]

01:06:56   to feedback online I don't think it's [TS]

01:07:01   too far off from your usual stuff but it [TS]

01:07:04   really comes down and making it sound [TS]

01:07:06   like maybe you don't yeah maybe you [TS]

01:07:08   don't care well that's that's part of it [TS]

01:07:11   the thick-skinned thing is at a certain [TS]

01:07:12   point especially as you get older you [TS]

01:07:14   just stop caring about certain things [TS]

01:07:17   that might have bothered you a lot [TS]

01:07:18   previously and I'm not even going to say [TS]

01:07:21   whether that's good or bad but it just [TS]

01:07:24   is what it is [TS]

01:07:24   and it changes the decisions you might [TS]

01:07:27   make about about feedback for four [TS]

01:07:31   companies it's a little bit different [TS]

01:07:32   because your main issue was not how do I [TS]

01:07:36   feel about this but like does this help [TS]

01:07:38   the company does this hurt the company [TS]

01:07:40   and you know that becomes a lot more of [TS]

01:07:42   a dispassionate business decision about [TS]

01:07:46   weighing the benefits in terms of [TS]

01:07:48   networking and you know social [TS]

01:07:51   interfacing and viral marketing a lot of [TS]

01:07:54   stuff versus the cost of hiring the guy [TS]

01:07:56   to deal with the spam and hiring the [TS]

01:07:57   moderator and stuff like that but mostly [TS]

01:07:59   I'm talking about on the individual [TS]

01:08:01   basis individual blog right individual [TS]

01:08:04   you know articles and an individual [TS]

01:08:05   author responding to comments I also [TS]

01:08:09   think actually on the comments one more [TS]

01:08:10   thing on that I really love to be able [TS]

01:08:13   to interact with the people who read [TS]

01:08:15   what I write and I find that even like [TS]

01:08:17   old school newspaper guys love that [TS]

01:08:19   stuff in that like their entire life you [TS]

01:08:22   know they they were spent 40 years in [TS]

01:08:23   the newspaper business and they always [TS]

01:08:25   run newspaper and then they write online [TS]

01:08:26   for the first time and they see that [TS]

01:08:27   first five or six comments appear [TS]

01:08:29   underneath their thing and they just [TS]

01:08:31   it's like crack vader's crack it but [TS]

01:08:33   because for their entire career they'd [TS]

01:08:34   been giving the copy to the copy boy or [TS]

01:08:36   wherever the heck I know nothing about [TS]

01:08:37   the music newspaper industry whatever [TS]

01:08:39   and it goes off to the presses then it [TS]

01:08:40   comes out maybe they can see people [TS]

01:08:42   reading it on the subway and like peer [TS]

01:08:43   over the shoulder like see if they're [TS]

01:08:44   smiling or frowning when they're reading [TS]

01:08:45   my op-ed or my movie review or whatever [TS]

01:08:47   but it is nothing like write it post it [TS]

01:08:50   stare at the screen for five minutes hit [TS]

01:08:52   reload and see 20 people give feedback [TS]

01:08:53   and that [TS]

01:08:55   especially to like people who have never [TS]

01:08:57   been exposed to it like the internet [TS]

01:08:58   virgins the internet instant feedback [TS]

01:09:00   virgins like those newspaper guys it is [TS]

01:09:02   crazy like Roger Ebert is a good example [TS]

01:09:04   that he was not online but he got hooked [TS]

01:09:06   big-time with a little instant feedback [TS]

01:09:08   and stuff like that that's an obvious [TS]

01:09:10   benefit of comments that if you like [TS]

01:09:12   that sort of thing [TS]

01:09:13   it's it's like nothing else and I do [TS]

01:09:15   like having that feedback and engaging [TS]

01:09:17   with the readers not engaging to like [TS]

01:09:19   try to correct them or you know argue [TS]

01:09:20   with them about things although [TS]

01:09:21   sometimes that's fun to do too but some [TS]

01:09:24   people enjoy that kind of engagement [TS]

01:09:25   some people do not like that kind of [TS]

01:09:27   engagement and some people feel the [TS]

01:09:28   responsibility to do that kind of [TS]

01:09:30   engagement even though they don't enjoy [TS]

01:09:32   it like well you know if someone asked [TS]

01:09:34   me a question in the comment I feel like [TS]

01:09:36   I'm a jerk if I don't respond to them if [TS]

01:09:38   that's the way you feel and you also [TS]

01:09:39   don't want to respond to them don't have [TS]

01:09:41   comments right so I think that's the [TS]

01:09:44   calculus on that stuff mm-hmm I would [TS]

01:09:49   love to hear you talk to Merlin about [TS]

01:09:50   this he touches on it sometimes in some [TS]

01:09:52   of those things about not letting other [TS]

01:09:55   people's concept of what they expected [TS]

01:09:57   you define what you want to do and all [TS]

01:09:59   that stuff but I would just love to hear [TS]

01:10:00   him go to town on exactly do haven't do [TS]

01:10:01   the exactly the same show as mine no but [TS]

01:10:03   it'll be totally different all in [TS]

01:10:05   criticism comments that I got loved [TS]

01:10:07   everybody has to say yeah it sounds like [TS]

01:10:08   a good topic [TS]

01:10:09   well crossed you can't really dictate [TS]

01:10:11   topics damn can you no not really I mean [TS]

01:10:14   the Royal you like cumulative ly now he [TS]

01:10:17   comes up with him nobody puts Marlon in [TS]

01:10:19   a corner it's a great great movie [TS]

01:10:22   reference wonder who will get that don't [TS]

01:10:24   eat mail us that will not be the title [TS]

01:10:26   this episode by the way no no we are you [TS]

01:10:30   I already have a title his episode what [TS]

01:10:32   is it I'll tell you afterwards okay but [TS]

01:10:34   I already picked it I'm queer so I had [TS]

01:10:36   this week you pick a topic last week I [TS]

01:10:37   picked the title as soon as you pick the [TS]

01:10:39   topic nice we're out of the game here we [TS]

01:10:41   do have a few potential titles Josh I'm [TS]

01:10:45   sorry Josh I'm gonna toriel your idols [TS]

01:10:47   I've got one picked Josh tell me tell me [TS]

01:10:51   what they are we'll throw them out there [TS]

01:10:53   but yeah I think I think this is um this [TS]

01:10:56   is such an interesting it is you know it [TS]

01:10:59   is I guess it is a non-technical topic [TS]

01:11:01   because it doesn't have to do with fire [TS]

01:11:04   wire connectors but it very much is I [TS]

01:11:06   think the kind of thing [TS]

01:11:07   people think about I mean it you can [TS]

01:11:12   almost compare it you can think about [TS]

01:11:13   the way that Apple does it they they [TS]

01:11:15   they really don't engage with people the [TS]

01:11:20   way that other companies say you need to [TS]

01:11:22   and that pisses people off right because [TS]

01:11:24   people that's exactly the same situation [TS]

01:11:26   people think they should engage oh I'm [TS]

01:11:27   one of those people who think they [TS]

01:11:28   should engage but Apple is not a person [TS]

01:11:30   so it's kind of like when I say I think [TS]

01:11:32   they should engage I have reasons that [TS]

01:11:33   have to do with it would be better for [TS]

01:11:35   the company if you engaged because then [TS]

01:11:37   I list a bunch of business reasons it's [TS]

01:11:38   not the same as an individual but it's [TS]

01:11:40   the same sentiment is that everyone has [TS]

01:11:42   their expectations of what other people [TS]

01:11:43   should do in response to their feedback [TS]

01:11:45   and if they deviate from those you know [TS]

01:11:48   they think you know apples a jerk [TS]

01:11:50   because they don't do you know they [TS]

01:11:51   don't listen to our feedback or they [TS]

01:11:52   just put up that Chinese wall or [TS]

01:11:53   whatever I don't think that's productive [TS]

01:11:55   especially since Apple is not a person [TS]

01:11:56   to engage in that [TS]

01:11:57   but since Apple is not a person I don't [TS]

01:11:59   think Apple can use the thing of like [TS]

01:12:01   well we got upset when we were engaged [TS]

01:12:03   or bother they're not a person is people [TS]

01:12:06   inside Apple would love to have a more [TS]

01:12:08   open dialogue and I put these people at [TS]

01:12:09   Apple who wish they could keep even more [TS]

01:12:10   stuff secret so as a corporation you [TS]

01:12:13   have to talk about does this help hurt [TS]

01:12:15   the company and in what ways and Apple [TS]

01:12:17   makes its internal calculus and decides [TS]

01:12:20   this is the kind of public face we want [TS]

01:12:21   to put on right and I bet they would [TS]

01:12:24   have pretty strong arguments to back why [TS]

01:12:27   why they think this is a good idea you [TS]

01:12:29   know [TS]

01:12:30   look how successful we've been with the [TS]

01:12:31   strategy look at the bad things we avoid [TS]

01:12:33   look at the good things that we get by [TS]

01:12:34   you know having the Chinese wall and [TS]

01:12:37   then you'd come back with like well look [TS]

01:12:38   at the app store thing in the NBA and [TS]

01:12:40   the ill-will that you got for just not [TS]

01:12:41   talking about stuff and you can go back [TS]

01:12:43   and forth on it but since Apple is not a [TS]

01:12:45   person it's a much it's a much less [TS]

01:12:48   touchy-feely discussion and much more of [TS]

01:12:50   a how does this help or hurt your [TS]

01:12:51   business discussion follow-up knows no [TS]

01:12:54   bounds source of truth being handsome [TS]

01:12:59   criticisms virtuous cycle uber critic or [TS]

01:13:02   uber critical those are all good titles [TS]

01:13:07   they're just not the one I already have [TS]

01:13:08   pick tonight [TS]

01:13:09   let's put them out there all right so so [TS]

01:13:12   that's it then [TS]

01:13:13   that's it for this episode we'll be back [TS]

01:13:15   next week live Eastern Time [TS]

01:13:17   do you want to try to pull another one [TS]

01:13:19   like you did last time and pick the [TS]

01:13:20   topic topic [TS]

01:13:21   ahead of time yeah but first let me go [TS]

01:13:23   tell them one that when we're going to [TS]

01:13:24   be back next Friday 2 p.m. Eastern you [TS]

01:13:28   join us live here at 5x5 TV lunch live [TS]

01:13:32   can be in the chat room you can listen [TS]

01:13:34   live we want to say thanks to [TS]

01:13:36   mailchimp.com go to mailchimp.com slash [TS]

01:13:38   integration fund and get part of your [TS]

01:13:41   million dollars for your app now what [TS]

01:13:43   are the potentials what are the choices [TS]

01:13:46   I don't have all the top grades all I am [TS]

01:13:48   adding oh my goodness not prepared to [TS]

01:13:51   look at the topic page you're an [TS]

01:13:53   operator I have it up no I'm too focused [TS]

01:13:56   on the conversation there you go all [TS]

01:13:59   right [TS]

01:13:59   is that you that's you there it is but [TS]

01:14:01   go in there now I added a whole bunch at [TS]

01:14:03   the bottom there oh I got the bottom [TS]

01:14:05   look at this well we've got it we've got [TS]

01:14:08   to do don't read them all off each I'm [TS]

01:14:11   not gonna read any of them off just [TS]

01:14:12   looking I wouldn't rely wouldn't do that [TS]

01:14:14   - look at this you even have like [TS]

01:14:16   archived two previous shows by that one [TS]

01:14:19   you have on the top I'm never gonna pick [TS]

01:14:22   that one [TS]

01:14:22   you're never I'm gonna bung it a force [TS]

01:14:24   pick that one eventually because I knew [TS]

01:14:25   you would never pick it but I want to [TS]

01:14:26   talk about it I saw I saw Jurassic Park [TS]

01:14:29   I don't need to talk about uh-huh no [TS]

01:14:31   we're gonna talk about that one we are [TS]

01:14:32   going to I will eventually force that [TS]

01:14:33   one now that I know you're never gonna [TS]

01:14:34   pick of it I think people want to hear [TS]

01:14:36   about it because usually someone hear [TS]

01:14:37   about it people want to hear about you [TS]

01:14:38   can see that one unknown as a park and [TS]

01:14:41   that's it we don't have time that's wait [TS]

01:14:43   yeah and that we're gonna talk to Ally [TS]

01:14:45   topic are you never gonna pick a number [TS]

01:14:46   two - have you ever even read that thing [TS]

01:14:51   I like them yeah yeah yeah right then [TS]

01:14:53   yeah well you didn't read all like it's [TS]

01:14:54   too long but it was pretty long a lot of [TS]

01:14:55   words that's it that's a heavy tech [TS]

01:14:58   topic and I do want to talk about that [TS]

01:14:59   one that one oh we'll pick um I really [TS]

01:15:02   like number three I really like number [TS]

01:15:04   three yeah no you keep picking that one [TS]

01:15:06   but I have and I like to enjoy Hedwig [TS]

01:15:07   wishy-washy things to say that I like [TS]

01:15:09   number four and I wound umber five is [TS]

01:15:12   new no that's right I thought about was [TS]

01:15:15   I had the bottom two and I was like you [TS]

01:15:16   know what I'm gonna add that one too I [TS]

01:15:18   think right now all second from the [TS]

01:15:22   second from the either the bottom to our [TS]

01:15:24   mind are my top picks yeah I think all [TS]

01:15:27   those maybe I can combine them into one [TS]

01:15:29   show but let's do that let's do that our [TS]

01:15:32   unfocused ideas and I think I just have [TS]

01:15:34   a little bit like one [TS]

01:15:35   little points to say about each of them [TS]

01:15:36   and maybe we'll save the third from [TS]

01:15:39   bottom for last can we say what they are [TS]

01:15:42   no well we can just say that next week [TS]

01:15:45   if Dan wants to pick these we're going [TS]

01:15:47   to say we're going to walk them along [TS]

01:15:48   with insert well-known company here and [TS]

01:15:50   we'll do three company [TS]

01:15:51   what's wrong with insert company name [TS]

01:15:53   and the two of them are none of them are [TS]

01:15:55   Apple yeah we already we do up all the [TS]

01:15:58   time but they are there I'm sure you [TS]

01:16:00   sure people will guess the two big ones [TS]

01:16:03   yeah we're the third one in there that [TS]

01:16:05   that will make nobody people will cry if [TS]

01:16:08   they because no but nobody has that have [TS]

01:16:09   you ever heard anyone have that [TS]

01:16:10   discussion no never ever and and I and I [TS]

01:16:14   was thinking about like you know what [TS]

01:16:15   I'm planning to say well but you never [TS]

01:16:17   hear anyone talking ever and I'm ready [TS]

01:16:19   to defend it I will stand up and defend [TS]

01:16:21   the 30 times you can't you can't defend [TS]

01:16:23   it because I'll defend it it's not like [TS]

01:16:25   I'm going to say for any of these [TS]

01:16:26   companies this company is the devil you [TS]

01:16:29   know yeah but I always gonna be this [TS]

01:16:31   company is great but just look with [TS]

01:16:33   Apple here it you know Apple is great [TS]

01:16:35   but made a third company has brute just [TS]

01:16:37   all they want to do is make people happy [TS]

01:16:39   all right just don't give it away well [TS]

01:16:41   do I'm not giving it away I'll put them [TS]

01:16:43   in the I'll set them up for next week [TS]

01:16:45   company can do no wrong but don't email [TS]

01:16:48   us of what you think it is [TS]

01:16:50   please we get so many emails you've [TS]

01:16:53   practically given it away already [TS]

01:16:54   I have not super smart people in the [TS]

01:16:56   chat we've already figured it they [TS]

01:16:57   haven't looked in the chat room to see [TS]

01:16:59   if they actually have but I'm assuming [TS]

01:17:00   they if anyone is still listening they [TS]

01:17:02   figured they are throwing out names and [TS]

01:17:04   I won't even give them I have not even [TS]

01:17:07   looking at the names so I don't know if [TS]

01:17:08   it's actually been I won't [TS]

01:17:09   I won't spoil it out but I'll tell you [TS]

01:17:12   later do look at it and then people are [TS]

01:17:15   all way up all right so listen that's it [TS]

01:17:18   for this show thanks to to MailChimp [TS]

01:17:19   thanks to you guys for tuning in you we [TS]

01:17:21   need you to rate this show that's what [TS]

01:17:22   we also need we it's really helpful when [TS]

01:17:24   you do that they didn't review because [TS]

01:17:25   the reviews are my comments man no [TS]

01:17:27   comments on the site for for [TS]

01:17:28   well-founded reason this thing doesn't [TS]

01:17:30   have time to deal with that but but but [TS]

01:17:31   iTunes deal with your spammy comments [TS]

01:17:33   yeah [TS]

01:17:33   and what are your ads and to iTunes and [TS]

01:17:36   make some poor guy click it away but we [TS]

01:17:37   appreciate you listening and John is [TS]

01:17:40   always another great show always [TS]

01:17:41   enjoying too [TS]

01:17:42   of great time always enjoyed doing this [TS]

01:17:44   view so thank you John Syracuse it can [TS]

01:17:47   be found on Twitter at Syracuse ah there [TS]

01:17:50   is no Z in Syracuse oh that's how you [TS]

01:17:52   remember how to spell it [TS]

01:17:53   I'm Dan Benjamin also Dan Benjamin on [TS]

01:17:56   Twitter and we hope you enjoyed it and [TS]

01:17:59   we'll see you all next week [TS]

01:18:15   you [TS]