4: iOS vs. The World


00:00:00   hi I'm Dan benjamin the founder [TS]

00:00:01   five-by-five it has been exactly one [TS]

00:00:04   year since I started 5x5 and I wanted to [TS]

00:00:07   take a moment to say thanks so much to [TS]

00:00:09   you for listening for all of your [TS]

00:00:11   donations for your kind ratings in [TS]

00:00:13   iTunes and for all of the support you've [TS]

00:00:16   given along the way we absolutely [TS]

00:00:18   wouldn't and couldn't be here doing [TS]

00:00:19   these shows without your help here's to [TS]

00:00:22   another great year [TS]

00:00:26   this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:29   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:32   the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:33   technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:36   so perfect that it can be complained [TS]

00:00:38   about at least not by my co-host John [TS]

00:00:41   siracusa you may know him from his [TS]

00:00:44   writing at ARS technica and elsewhere [TS]

00:00:46   I'm Dan Benjamin and thanks for [TS]

00:00:48   listening this episode is sponsored by [TS]

00:00:50   screens from IDO viacom screens let you [TS]

00:00:53   access your Mac from anywhere using any [TS]

00:00:55   iOS device it's a universal VNC client [TS]

00:00:58   you can use multi-touch gestures [TS]

00:01:00   shortcuts and more and you can even [TS]

00:01:01   connect to Windows and Linux pcs which [TS]

00:01:03   is John circuses favorite thing to do [TS]

00:01:06   when he's out of the house it's VNC made [TS]

00:01:08   simple and it only cost $19.99 check it [TS]

00:01:11   out at at doe Viacom slash screens or on [TS]

00:01:13   the iTunes App Store we'd also like to [TS]

00:01:15   say thanks to campaign monitor email [TS]

00:01:17   marketing software for designers [TS]

00:01:18   developers and their clients you can [TS]

00:01:20   design great-looking emails with your [TS]

00:01:22   own tools track your email related [TS]

00:01:23   conversions and sales and manager [TS]

00:01:25   subscribers with ease and here's some [TS]

00:01:27   news campaign monitor has just released [TS]

00:01:29   a brand new API monthly pricing [TS]

00:01:32   autoresponders and more and you can sign [TS]

00:01:35   up today at campaign monitor calm and [TS]

00:01:37   now that that those things are done I [TS]

00:01:39   can say hello to my very best friend [TS]

00:01:43   ever [TS]

00:01:43   John circus nosey syracusa [TS]

00:01:47   I don't dad doing good thanks for your [TS]

00:01:50   help earlier in the week trying to [TS]

00:01:51   figure out what was wrong with that [TS]

00:01:52   drive should we talk about lack of help [TS]

00:01:55   can what now you kind of helped can we [TS]

00:01:57   can we talk about the drive you can I [TS]

00:01:59   think it's an interesting story it's [TS]

00:02:01   kind of a grayscale yeah oh yeah so I [TS]

00:02:04   got a bata bought an older g5 from a [TS]

00:02:09   friend of mine and had an older hard [TS]

00:02:11   drive sitting around I wanted to use in [TS]

00:02:13   this thing and I I i put the drive in [TS]

00:02:18   and booted up the machine launch you [TS]

00:02:20   know booted up the booted from the [TS]

00:02:23   leopard installer and it saw the drive [TS]

00:02:27   just fine but it wouldn't it wouldn't [TS]

00:02:30   let me format it all of the options to [TS]

00:02:31   format it were grayed out as if it was a [TS]

00:02:33   cd-rom drive and so at first I googled [TS]

00:02:36   and looked up you know reasons why this [TS]

00:02:38   might be see if there's another way to [TS]

00:02:39   do it that kind of thing but the reason [TS]

00:02:41   why is I had used this drive in an [TS]

00:02:44   external chassis too and I had used on [TS]

00:02:47   Linux I had used the DD command to put [TS]

00:02:51   an ubuntu install image on it and and of [TS]

00:02:54   course when it does that it does it in [TS]

00:02:56   the ISO nine six six zero format so it [TS]

00:03:00   it thought the Mac OS 10 system saw it [TS]

00:03:04   as as a cd-rom drive even though clearly [TS]

00:03:08   it was a hard drive and it even showed [TS]

00:03:09   the hard drive icon in Disk Utility and [TS]

00:03:11   the Installer it it refused to let me [TS]

00:03:15   format it it wouldn't even try because [TS]

00:03:16   it saw it as this other it saw it as a [TS]

00:03:19   cd-rom drive which of course is [TS]

00:03:20   read-only the interesting that gave it [TS]

00:03:22   the hard drive icon you would think that [TS]

00:03:23   the operating system or that that [TS]

00:03:26   program would make the decision about [TS]

00:03:27   whether I can reformat this and whether [TS]

00:03:30   it's a hard drive kind of it would be [TS]

00:03:33   the same decision so you think it would [TS]

00:03:34   either show the CD image not like you [TS]

00:03:35   format right or the hard drive image and [TS]

00:03:37   let you format yes weird yeah but it [TS]

00:03:39   didn't and I have to try the same thing [TS]

00:03:41   I want to connect it to a Snow Leopard [TS]

00:03:44   machine to see if it has the same [TS]

00:03:46   problem if not I guess I'm gonna have to [TS]

00:03:49   go into Final Linux machine and and use [TS]

00:03:52   that to change it or something well you [TS]

00:03:54   know Michael Westen has DD command so [TS]

00:03:56   you can just wipe the thing from the [TS]

00:03:57   command line that way if you're really [TS]

00:03:59   really really careful that's it [TS]

00:04:01   have to do but yeah it just struck me as [TS]

00:04:04   being so funny because here here's [TS]

00:04:06   something that clearly it recognizes as [TS]

00:04:08   a hard drive based on the icon but based [TS]

00:04:12   on the file format it's thinking it's a [TS]

00:04:14   cd-rom drive so kind of kind of an edge [TS]

00:04:17   case but don't do that of all the story [TS]

00:04:20   never use Linux right so what's up we [TS]

00:04:25   have we have some follow up john from [TS]

00:04:28   from last week amp as always we have [TS]

00:04:30   follow up it but I made a decision on [TS]

00:04:31   the follow up I've decided not to do any [TS]

00:04:34   backup related follow-up this time [TS]

00:04:36   because we just have so much backup [TS]

00:04:37   related follow-up and I feel like the [TS]

00:04:39   show is becoming the backup show right [TS]

00:04:40   in John siracusa so I want to going to [TS]

00:04:44   save that I'm gonna save the backup [TS]

00:04:45   follow-up maybe will be for next episode [TS]

00:04:47   maybe the episode after but there is a [TS]

00:04:49   huge outpouring you'll outpouring of [TS]

00:04:51   people who have things to add or ask or [TS]

00:04:55   say about backups but skipping that for [TS]

00:04:58   this episode yeah before right when we [TS]

00:05:00   were starting people in the chat room [TS]

00:05:01   we're saying hey I wonder if they'll [TS]

00:05:02   talk about backups today no isn't that's [TS]

00:05:05   just just to tell you that we're not [TS]

00:05:06   going to talk about back right so we'll [TS]

00:05:08   save it okay so I've got those notes for [TS]

00:05:10   another episode okay but last episode we [TS]

00:05:12   talked about a aside from backup stuff [TS]

00:05:15   talk to about Mac OS 10 version to be [TS]

00:05:18   determined Lian and we talked all about [TS]

00:05:21   what Apple thought of that I got a [TS]

00:05:23   little bit of follow up on the the lion [TS]

00:05:25   stuff hopefully not a half an hour's [TS]

00:05:28   worth so we can save room for the actual [TS]

00:05:30   topic of today's show one thing that [TS]

00:05:33   people brought up that I should have [TS]

00:05:34   mentioned but totally didn't think about [TS]

00:05:36   but I have thought about a lot in the [TS]

00:05:38   past is the name of the operating system [TS]

00:05:40   and you know that the big cat names [TS]

00:05:42   really don't leak ahead of time for the [TS]

00:05:44   most part we haven't known the big cat [TS]

00:05:45   names of the various versions of Mac OS [TS]

00:05:47   10 right until Apple says so and that [TS]

00:05:50   always I guess people don't care but I [TS]

00:05:51   always cared I thought is meaningless [TS]

00:05:53   really but I always thought it was [TS]

00:05:54   interesting and I really didn't think [TS]

00:05:56   this time around that they would go with [TS]

00:05:57   lion because you know you save line for [TS]

00:06:01   the end wouldn't you because once you do [TS]

00:06:02   the king of the jungle you know it's the [TS]

00:06:04   biggest big cat or yeah you've got [TS]

00:06:07   nowhere else to go right a lion you [TS]

00:06:09   can't go back to like links or Ocelot or [TS]

00:06:11   something so this one's clearly call [TS]

00:06:14   Lyonne and that's kind of like a strong [TS]

00:06:16   hint that this is either at the end of [TS]

00:06:19   the line for cat branding possibly the [TS]

00:06:21   end of the line for Mac os10 branding [TS]

00:06:23   okay that's that's very interesting and [TS]

00:06:26   you know you bring up a great point I [TS]

00:06:28   remember thinking I don't I don't [TS]

00:06:30   especially like the name lion for for [TS]

00:06:36   this as much as some of the other cats [TS]

00:06:38   that are out there because line it [TS]

00:06:40   sounds like lying you know what I'm [TS]

00:06:42   saying is a little things like that and [TS]

00:06:44   so I was thinking the same thing I was [TS]

00:06:45   thinking I want there has to be a reason [TS]

00:06:47   why they would pick lion and and that [TS]

00:06:50   that has to be the answer which is it [TS]

00:06:52   though which is it is it that it's the [TS]

00:06:54   end of end of the end of the line for OS [TS]

00:06:57   10 or is it cat names are done why would [TS]

00:07:00   they why would they go away from cat [TS]

00:07:02   names when there's so many left the [TS]

00:07:04   first thing I would say is that I think [TS]

00:07:06   all of my all the things that I talked [TS]

00:07:08   about in the last episode still stand in [TS]

00:07:10   terms of what the product will be this [TS]

00:07:12   is entirely about naming and branding is [TS]

00:07:16   nothing about the content of the [TS]

00:07:17   operating system so whether or not they [TS]

00:07:19   go away from big cat branding or they go [TS]

00:07:21   away from the Mac os10 branding I think [TS]

00:07:23   the content of the next version of what [TS]

00:07:25   is now known as Mac OS 10 will be the [TS]

00:07:26   same I don't think that because they [TS]

00:07:29   changed the name suddenly I would revise [TS]

00:07:31   my guesses about the you know whether it [TS]

00:07:34   will be more or less like iOS I think [TS]

00:07:36   they're clearly going on that transition [TS]

00:07:37   to make it more iOS like but the [TS]

00:07:39   transition is not going to go any faster [TS]

00:07:40   if they rename things it would P really [TS]

00:07:42   be a positioning thing and just a [TS]

00:07:45   branding thing and maybe it would help [TS]

00:07:47   people feel more comfortable with it but [TS]

00:07:49   I don't think it would help them [TS]

00:07:50   overcome the technical challenges of [TS]

00:07:53   slowly converting this operating system [TS]

00:07:56   and its applications to be a more iOS [TS]

00:07:58   like model so that's what bothers me [TS]

00:08:00   about this naming stuff is that people [TS]

00:08:01   get hot and bothered about it but I [TS]

00:08:03   really think it is a side issue so with [TS]

00:08:06   that without cheating can you name all [TS]

00:08:08   of the versions by their code names [TS]

00:08:12   starting with with 10.0 all the way up [TS]

00:08:14   to ten not seven obviously and ten zero [TS]

00:08:17   was cheetah ten one Puma ten two Jaguar [TS]

00:08:19   ten three Panther ten four tiger ten [TS]

00:08:21   five leopard ten six Snow Leopard and [TS]

00:08:23   then whatever they're going to call this [TS]

00:08:24   one lion they haven't really talked [TS]

00:08:26   about a version a number as far as an [TS]

00:08:28   however [TS]

00:08:28   assumes it will be ten seven and I think [TS]

00:08:30   that's a good bet too but I don't think [TS]

00:08:32   they've actually talked about it maybe [TS]

00:08:33   it's on their website I don't know I'm [TS]

00:08:34   impressed do you know what the code name [TS]

00:08:36   for the public beta was the code name [TS]

00:08:40   for the public beta yeah geez [TS]

00:08:42   that one I that's very time very [TS]

00:08:44   important matter you did so well [TS]

00:08:46   listing those laughs once you say it [TS]

00:08:48   will probably be reminded of about it on [TS]

00:08:50   Kodiak yeah yeah I would have [TS]

00:08:54   that does sound very familiar we had to [TS]

00:08:55   pay 30 bucks for that too yeah happy to [TS]

00:08:59   do it but they did have wine names to it [TS]

00:09:03   day before you'll get the bit in the [TS]

00:09:05   beginning they were going to have wine [TS]

00:09:06   names I don't remember what the wine [TS]

00:09:07   names were but they were for a while [TS]

00:09:09   there I think around the time of Jaguar [TS]

00:09:12   though it was a rumor that the wine name [TS]

00:09:15   was going around and the rumor was that [TS]

00:09:16   they were going to be the official names [TS]

00:09:18   but I guess that didn't get past [TS]

00:09:19   marketing yeah it's only a retron survey [TS]

00:09:22   or some other wine aficionado trying to [TS]

00:09:24   make that stick and once it bounced up [TS]

00:09:26   the mark and they're like yeah no we're [TS]

00:09:27   not gonna do that so so what do you [TS]

00:09:29   think this means though I mean does it [TS]

00:09:30   doesn't mean the end of the big cat [TS]

00:09:31   names here's what I think III think it [TS]

00:09:34   will they will abandon cat names when [TS]

00:09:38   they abandon when they abandoned the Mac [TS]

00:09:42   os10 [TS]

00:09:43   OS as a whole I don't you really think [TS]

00:09:47   that they do a Mac OS 10 dot whatever [TS]

00:09:51   eight and not do a cat name I think lion [TS]

00:09:55   has to be the end of the cabinet as it [TS]

00:09:57   just makes no sense to do another cat [TS]

00:09:59   after lion unless now it makes no sense [TS]

00:10:01   they're very impressive reading but [TS]

00:10:03   reading that subtle hint from from Apple [TS]

00:10:05   do you think anyone else has picked up [TS]

00:10:06   on this yeah I've talked about it like [TS]

00:10:08   crazy as soon as it was called ly even [TS]

00:10:11   before it was called lion there were [TS]

00:10:12   speculation is always speculation what [TS]

00:10:14   does the big cat gain I'm going to be [TS]

00:10:15   and someone always suggests lion and [TS]

00:10:16   then everyone else says no they're [TS]

00:10:17   saving that for the end that won't be [TS]

00:10:19   until XYZ so so it's clearly it is the [TS]

00:10:22   end and it's the end of big cat branding [TS]

00:10:25   I would say pretty certainly and if [TS]

00:10:27   they're going to get rid of big cat [TS]

00:10:28   branding you they could just say well [TS]

00:10:30   we're done with that silly thing where [TS]

00:10:31   they were we put a cat in a fair we're [TS]

00:10:32   just going to call it Mac os10 [TS]

00:10:33   another option is they could just drop [TS]

00:10:35   the Mac and just call it OS 10 so it [TS]

00:10:38   sort of matches better with iOS I don't [TS]

00:10:40   know remember when they did that for a [TS]

00:10:41   brief period of time [TS]

00:10:42   there was this tiny window where yeah [TS]

00:10:44   they were trying to call the operating [TS]

00:10:45   system that ran on the iPod Touch and [TS]

00:10:48   iPhone OS 10 by itself without the Mac [TS]

00:10:50   prefix yeah and then they changed their [TS]

00:10:52   mind and decided to call it iOS because [TS]

00:10:54   for a long time I was called iPhone OS [TS]

00:10:56   running on devices that were an iPhone [TS]

00:10:57   right that makes sense [TS]

00:10:59   yeah where they called it we're gonna [TS]

00:11:01   call it OS 10 which made a little bit [TS]

00:11:02   more than key it's not Mac OS 10 its OS [TS]

00:11:05   10 but then the final decision from [TS]

00:11:06   marketing was apparently iOS which I [TS]

00:11:09   don't know that doesn't get better it's [TS]

00:11:10   not really very ie so so cute well [TS]

00:11:13   here's here's the question then if if [TS]

00:11:15   that's I Oh s do you think we would see [TS]

00:11:18   X OS now because the I prefix is the [TS]

00:11:22   whole iMac Apple's always done this Alex [TS]

00:11:26   you're right because I don't want X OS I [TS]

00:11:28   think it'd be horrible it would not say [TS]

00:11:29   it as X that's always 10 I know I'm just [TS]

00:11:32   asking you I think people ask me these [TS]

00:11:34   questions all the time I'm just really [TS]

00:11:36   but branding Apple's wacky with branding [TS]

00:11:37   like they like simplicity our MacBook [TS]

00:11:39   MacBook is a horrible brand people get [TS]

00:11:41   used to it people used to anything [TS]

00:11:42   that's not a measure of how good it is [TS]

00:11:43   like Wii is a bad name but people get [TS]

00:11:45   used to it and then it becomes fine but [TS]

00:11:47   MacBook is not as good as power buck [TS]

00:11:49   either probably used to that too [TS]

00:11:50   I think I don't think Mac is going to go [TS]

00:11:53   away because think it is still strong a [TS]

00:11:54   strong brand they've kind of realized [TS]

00:11:56   that by calling our Mac books Mac is a [TS]

00:11:59   brand and I think they still believe in [TS]

00:12:00   that brand [TS]

00:12:02   called Mac iOS just who knows who the [TS]

00:12:06   heck knows if this is really but the key [TS]

00:12:08   part of this is entirely up to the [TS]

00:12:10   marketing department and the people to [TS]

00:12:12   make those decisions and it has nothing [TS]

00:12:13   to do with the technical content of the [TS]

00:12:15   operating system the engineering side [TS]

00:12:16   worries about technical content and [TS]

00:12:18   evolving the operating system and no [TS]

00:12:20   matter what they do the marketing people [TS]

00:12:21   are going to do with the marketing [TS]

00:12:22   people are going to do and they're [TS]

00:12:24   really two separate threads so here [TS]

00:12:26   here's a question then what what would [TS]

00:12:30   really be required for them to no longer [TS]

00:12:34   call it or no longer think of it as OS [TS]

00:12:37   10 I mean you know think back to the to [TS]

00:12:40   the old days system 7 became 8 9 10 what [TS]

00:12:45   what I mean obviously with 10 there was [TS]

00:12:48   a huge huge change it was an all new [TS]

00:12:51   operating system at least for Apple I [TS]

00:12:54   mean we all know it came [TS]

00:12:56   next but it was it was an essentially a [TS]

00:13:00   completely new OS I don't know if the [TS]

00:13:04   change from eight to nine would be [TS]

00:13:06   considered a whole new OS but how do [TS]

00:13:08   they you know the windows side of things [TS]

00:13:10   you've got operating systems that that [TS]

00:13:13   are all kind of Co related but every [TS]

00:13:15   time they come out with a new thing they [TS]

00:13:17   they call it something completely new [TS]

00:13:19   they're not releasing you know although [TS]

00:13:21   it might be you you might argue that it [TS]

00:13:23   really is it's not Windows three and [TS]

00:13:25   then four and then five and then six [TS]

00:13:26   they always have these different names [TS]

00:13:28   they're not the lineages are not obvious [TS]

00:13:31   you're not suggesting they're going to [TS]

00:13:33   do something like that you're saying the [TS]

00:13:34   opposite you're saying it's still going [TS]

00:13:36   to be the same OS that we love [TS]

00:13:37   regardless of the name I'm saying naming [TS]

00:13:40   and technology have almost no relation [TS]

00:13:43   like remember we went from system seven [TS]

00:13:45   point five point whatever to Mac OS 7.6 [TS]

00:13:47   and there was you know there was this to [TS]

00:13:50   change from seven point five to seven [TS]

00:13:52   point six was no bigger than the change [TS]

00:13:53   between any other seven versions really [TS]

00:13:55   they changed the name of it they just [TS]

00:13:57   change because I felt like it where as [TS]

00:13:58   as you pointed out the change from Mac [TS]

00:14:00   OS 9 to Mac OS 10 with the Roman numeral [TS]

00:14:02   was like a hundred percent change yeah [TS]

00:14:04   so really the naming has absolutely [TS]

00:14:07   nothing to do with the amount the [TS]

00:14:09   operating system changes and any [TS]

00:14:10   discussion that starts from that premise [TS]

00:14:11   or is based on that is just pointless [TS]

00:14:14   discussion to have the names of the [TS]

00:14:16   names and they're fun to talk about [TS]

00:14:17   everything too but they really [TS]

00:14:18   independent of the tech the next time [TS]

00:14:21   there's a a tech jump like there was [TS]

00:14:24   from nine to ten that's probably a good [TS]

00:14:27   topic for another show as I have some [TS]

00:14:28   theories about what that might be and [TS]

00:14:30   possibly when it might come but that's [TS]

00:14:33   and surely they will do a name change [TS]

00:14:34   then but that's not doesn't have [TS]

00:14:38   anything to do with the branding stuff [TS]

00:14:39   Josh in the chat room asks what about [TS]

00:14:42   Mac OS 10 server as a separate branded [TS]

00:14:44   product yeah yeah there was they [TS]

00:14:47   released Mac OS 10 server 1.0 which was [TS]

00:14:49   basically rhapsody that really had no [TS]

00:14:51   relation to the current Mac OS 10 except [TS]

00:14:53   that both had next underpinnings and [TS]

00:14:55   that was kind of a dead product and then [TS]

00:14:57   they revived it and when they revived [TS]

00:14:58   that it was Mac OS 10 server I think it [TS]

00:15:00   was called 10-point Oh where they were [TS]

00:15:03   trying to sync the versions up with the [TS]

00:15:04   real Mac OS 10 but now that they've [TS]

00:15:06   ditched the Xserve Mac OS 10 server [TS]

00:15:09   like is not long for this world maybe [TS]

00:15:12   they'll just keep having it limp along [TS]

00:15:14   and become increasingly more like Mac [TS]

00:15:16   os10 client it already is basically [TS]

00:15:19   identical except for some parameters [TS]

00:15:21   tweaked and tons of new bundled [TS]

00:15:22   applications but I mean I wouldn't want [TS]

00:15:24   to be in that group at Apple working on [TS]

00:15:26   that stuff because that area of the [TS]

00:15:27   business seems to just be atrophying [TS]

00:15:29   well yeah and and and as you mentioned [TS]

00:15:31   there are a handful of other utilities [TS]

00:15:33   and tools but a lot of them were Xserve [TS]

00:15:35   specific a lot of them were x-rayed [TS]

00:15:37   specific I mean if you if you really [TS]

00:15:40   there's nothing that would stop you from [TS]

00:15:42   taking OS 10 as it stands today and [TS]

00:15:45   using it as a server there's almost [TS]

00:15:48   nothing that you really you don't really [TS]

00:15:50   need those additional tools except if [TS]

00:15:53   you're doing it in kind of a a workplace [TS]

00:15:55   environment and you're using it for file [TS]

00:15:57   serving and things like that if you're [TS]

00:15:59   just thinking of it in terms of like [TS]

00:16:00   serving a web server or database server [TS]

00:16:03   a straightforward file server a lot of [TS]

00:16:06   those things you don't even need so yeah [TS]

00:16:08   I mean does it make sense for them to [TS]

00:16:10   maintain OS 10 server for a little while [TS]

00:16:14   I mean right now there's how people who [TS]

00:16:16   put it on their Tower computers to help [TS]

00:16:17   them you know serve they have shared [TS]

00:16:19   home directories or something to help [TS]

00:16:21   them serve a bunch of users and a video [TS]

00:16:22   editing suite there are places for it [TS]

00:16:25   and there are still places for the one [TS]

00:16:27   or two little proprietary features that [TS]

00:16:29   Apple is added because they have their [TS]

00:16:30   own GUI for directory services that's on [TS]

00:16:33   top of like LDAP and all that stuff but [TS]

00:16:35   the other things are just open source [TS]

00:16:36   stuff that they package and throw on [TS]

00:16:38   there it's kind of a melange of Apple [TS]

00:16:41   modified stuff custom Apple stuff [TS]

00:16:44   complete open source stuff and you know [TS]

00:16:47   it's it's a big mishmash that I guess [TS]

00:16:50   the people who are using it want it to [TS]

00:16:52   continue to be supported but for the [TS]

00:16:55   rest of the world it is like let me get [TS]

00:16:56   a Linux server and install the software [TS]

00:16:58   I need to install on it and I'll be fine [TS]

00:17:00   and like you said it has a control panel [TS]

00:17:03   control panel and a neck serve and [TS]

00:17:05   everything that's the only place where [TS]

00:17:06   you absolutely positively need this [TS]

00:17:08   offer because you can't get any of this [TS]

00:17:09   cool xserve controlling gooeys from any [TS]

00:17:11   other company but that's gone away now [TS]

00:17:13   so yeah but that's another topic yeah [TS]

00:17:16   but I got one well do you wanna do one [TS]

00:17:18   more follow up yeah yeah yeah all right [TS]

00:17:20   so [TS]

00:17:21   actually two more follow-ups so on the [TS]

00:17:23   line thing I mentioned that spaces look [TS]

00:17:25   like they were completely gone and other [TS]

00:17:27   people have pointed out that you can't [TS]

00:17:29   really tell because just because they [TS]

00:17:30   didn't demo spaces at all throwing their [TS]

00:17:33   little October demo doesn't mean they're [TS]

00:17:34   gone it just means they decide not to [TS]

00:17:36   demo it but I mean they said Mission [TS]

00:17:37   Control combines you know all these [TS]

00:17:38   things including spaces into one unified [TS]

00:17:40   interface but then they never ever [TS]

00:17:41   showed spaces or at least what we think [TS]

00:17:43   of as spaces and that led me to believe [TS]

00:17:45   that they're just ditching entirely but [TS]

00:17:47   that's my hunches for all I know it's [TS]

00:17:49   still there and they just decided never [TS]

00:17:50   to activate it [TS]

00:17:51   I got impression that they were [TS]

00:17:54   replacing it too though and I I don't [TS]

00:17:58   know I'm on the fence about that I [TS]

00:17:59   really did get the impression they were [TS]

00:18:01   they were saying we're done with it they [TS]

00:18:03   don't really demo spaces that much they [TS]

00:18:04   demoed it when it was introduced but [TS]

00:18:05   they hardly ever you know if any sort of [TS]

00:18:08   demoed in store automatically running [TS]

00:18:10   demo people demonstrating it they never [TS]

00:18:12   show spaces so it could still be there [TS]

00:18:14   and it's all in its existing buggy state [TS]

00:18:16   but I have my doubts but let me write it [TS]

00:18:19   wanted out rightly that we don't know [TS]

00:18:21   for sure and it's just still speculation [TS]

00:18:23   at this point because I don't think [TS]

00:18:24   there's even been a dev build of Lion [TS]

00:18:27   given out to anybody that I know of no [TS]

00:18:30   and the final follow up all the way back [TS]

00:18:32   to the first show was when we talked [TS]

00:18:34   about TV there was this thing that I [TS]

00:18:37   tweeted the other day about some I don't [TS]

00:18:39   know what this company is but some [TS]

00:18:40   companies some experiment where they [TS]

00:18:41   tried to take regular people and have [TS]

00:18:44   them replace their cable box yeah we [TS]

00:18:46   just talked about that on on briefly [TS]

00:18:48   awesome yeah they they is it something [TS]

00:18:50   he'll yeah your holiday or no holiday [TS]

00:18:54   something like that but yeah they they [TS]

00:18:55   and these are regular people these [TS]

00:18:56   weren't people like us these are regular [TS]

00:18:59   human beings and then they like you know [TS]

00:19:01   they did a study but they also videotape [TS]

00:19:02   the people talking about it so you can [TS]

00:19:04   follow the link in the show notes and [TS]

00:19:06   watch the videos and see what the people [TS]

00:19:07   had to say but the bottom line was that [TS]

00:19:08   none of these boxes are ready to [TS]

00:19:10   completely replace cable it's kind of an [TS]

00:19:11   unfair comparison because these boxes [TS]

00:19:13   are not sold as replacements they [TS]

00:19:14   usually set sold is you know supplements [TS]

00:19:16   to your existing watching but [TS]

00:19:18   positioning them as replacements is [TS]

00:19:20   saying here we're going to take away [TS]

00:19:21   your cable really highlights all the [TS]

00:19:22   flaws of these boxes of you know this [TS]

00:19:24   not a lot of content available the [TS]

00:19:26   expectations of television is that it [TS]

00:19:28   doesn't crash and you don't have [TS]

00:19:29   spinning weight cursors and those are [TS]

00:19:30   all over these machines and some people [TS]

00:19:33   were making the point that they don't [TS]

00:19:34   want to be so [TS]

00:19:35   actively involved in having to choose [TS]

00:19:36   what they want they want programming to [TS]

00:19:37   be broadcast at them which is kind of a [TS]

00:19:39   novel concept for those of us in the [TS]

00:19:41   TiVo generation who have already you [TS]

00:19:45   know sort of taking control the [TS]

00:19:46   television and it's not like we're [TS]

00:19:48   sitting there racking our brains out to [TS]

00:19:49   watch we set up recordings in season [TS]

00:19:51   passes for the shows were interested in [TS]

00:19:53   and whenever it's convenient for us we [TS]

00:19:54   sit down and we have a bunch of content [TS]

00:19:57   that we chose ready for us so that idea [TS]

00:19:59   of sitting down in front of the box and [TS]

00:20:01   flipping through channels [TS]

00:20:02   first of all changing channels on any [TS]

00:20:04   modern cable box is so incredibly [TS]

00:20:06   painful and slow that I can imagine [TS]

00:20:07   there are people who are actually [TS]

00:20:08   flipping through channels do you [TS]

00:20:09   remember doing that with like it may be [TS]

00:20:11   the 80s and 90s television could change [TS]

00:20:13   channels really fast in the advert in [TS]

00:20:15   the remote you could change channels [TS]

00:20:16   almost as fast usually hit the button [TS]

00:20:17   yeah like the gag in Toy Story 2 about [TS]

00:20:21   you know going around the horn if you go [TS]

00:20:22   into react does not work anymore for [TS]

00:20:24   kids who are growing up now they're like [TS]

00:20:26   you can't change channels that fast [TS]

00:20:27   because the stupid cable box takes 20 [TS]

00:20:28   minutes to sync to the next you know [TS]

00:20:30   yeah you don't even they're there that's [TS]

00:20:32   the whole reason that the guide is so [TS]

00:20:34   critical because you can't she can't [TS]

00:20:36   change channels by flipping a button you [TS]

00:20:39   would go nuts I mean like waiting [TS]

00:20:40   especially when they're you know this [TS]

00:20:41   channels in HD this channel is not and [TS]

00:20:43   you're waiting for your TV to resync it [TS]

00:20:44   isn't horrendously slow that's another [TS]

00:20:46   example of a television thing that's [TS]

00:20:47   gotten worse over time so flipping [TS]

00:20:49   through channels is alien to me but some [TS]

00:20:50   of these older people in the video we're [TS]

00:20:52   saying they just want to sit down and [TS]

00:20:53   flip through the 3 or 4 channels that [TS]

00:20:55   they're interested in see what's on [TS]

00:20:56   quote unquote winning it's a phenomenon [TS]

00:20:58   that like I can't remember the last time [TS]

00:21:00   in the last five or six years that I've [TS]

00:21:02   sat down front of television said let me [TS]

00:21:04   see what's on no I sit down and I expect [TS]

00:21:06   programs that I recorded previously that [TS]

00:21:08   I know I like to be ready and waiting [TS]

00:21:09   for me and I just choose which one of [TS]

00:21:11   them I want to watch yeah well I there [TS]

00:21:13   are a lot of people who turn a TV on [TS]

00:21:14   just to have the background noise or [TS]

00:21:16   they're people who just you know they [TS]

00:21:18   know there's a show on and they maybe [TS]

00:21:19   they watch what's on it before it or [TS]

00:21:21   after it but very much it's become a [TS]

00:21:23   consumer-driven process of how we how we [TS]

00:21:27   watch TV as opposed to a network driven [TS]

00:21:30   process of what they showed to us well [TS]

00:21:33   for some people anyway life is like I [TS]

00:21:34   said you saw the people in this video [TS]

00:21:35   and it was a it's a different world from [TS]

00:21:38   you know my contemporaries or people in [TS]

00:21:40   the circles that I travel in but it's [TS]

00:21:42   clear the people like that are out there [TS]

00:21:43   and it shows that these boxes have [TS]

00:21:45   stalled no chance to penetrate the [TS]

00:21:47   mainstream [TS]

00:21:48   as a replacement or cable and even as a [TS]

00:21:50   supplement it seems like it doesn't fit [TS]

00:21:51   in with their pattern of walking [TS]

00:21:53   television so these are the type of [TS]

00:21:54   people you may just have to wait for [TS]

00:21:55   them to die off before these boxes [TS]

00:21:57   become pervasive yes so what are you [TS]

00:22:00   what are your kids do do they have like [TS]

00:22:02   a TiVo or do they have things that are [TS]

00:22:04   that are theirs that they can watch or [TS]

00:22:05   do they sit down and watch like you put [TS]

00:22:08   on Nick jr. or something they just watch [TS]

00:22:09   it [TS]

00:22:10   they've never watched live TV and they [TS]

00:22:11   never watch commercials either and my [TS]

00:22:13   son is six now and he the only [TS]

00:22:16   commercials he's seen as a two shows [TS]

00:22:18   that he records have one commercial [TS]

00:22:20   break in them and he knows how 30 [TS]

00:22:21   seconds get past them so he just [TS]

00:22:22   literally has literally never seen [TS]

00:22:23   commercials at the age of six by the [TS]

00:22:26   time I was six I'd probably seen you [TS]

00:22:27   know whatever it is 20 million hours of [TS]

00:22:29   career right right right [TS]

00:22:30   interestingly the not seen commercials [TS]

00:22:32   does not make him not want to beg for [TS]

00:22:34   toys because well go to the toy store he [TS]

00:22:37   sees the toys there and you don't eat [TS]

00:22:39   ads to make toys tractive two three four [TS]

00:22:41   five and six-year-old so maybe would be [TS]

00:22:43   worse if you saw commercials but no [TS]

00:22:45   maybe the first time a commercial came [TS]

00:22:47   on he called me into the room when he [TS]

00:22:48   was three or four and sits daddy there's [TS]

00:22:49   something wrong with the TV night wire [TS]

00:22:51   where's my show exactly what I didn't [TS]

00:22:53   understand what this way you know it's [TS]

00:22:55   over why is it over it's not only it's [TS]

00:22:58   this commercial they get annoyed now [TS]

00:23:00   like he watches some shows that release [TS]

00:23:02   a new episode every week in a particular [TS]

00:23:04   season and when he watched one episode [TS]

00:23:06   he wants to watch another when I say [TS]

00:23:07   hasn't aired yet and it I still struggle [TS]

00:23:10   to explain that concept that you know [TS]

00:23:12   they make the shows ahead time but they [TS]

00:23:14   dole them out sort of one every week and [TS]

00:23:16   then why can't you just show me the show [TS]

00:23:19   like we haven't recorded to get its [TS]

00:23:21   broadcast and then like it's his mental [TS]

00:23:23   model does not match the actual model [TS]

00:23:26   for television it matches mostly the [TS]

00:23:27   TiVo model yeah it's funny because kids [TS]

00:23:30   growing up now really won't ever have [TS]

00:23:33   the same concept of TV that that we had [TS]

00:23:35   and most of the people who are listening [TS]

00:23:37   to this show probably had to which is [TS]

00:23:39   very very fundamentally different uh you [TS]

00:23:43   know we have all these shows and we [TS]

00:23:45   actually went through this transition [TS]

00:23:46   with our kid he's three being able to go [TS]

00:23:50   from all of that we just got to be [TS]

00:23:52   honest we just kind of got fed up with [TS]

00:23:54   him saying I wouldn't I want to watch [TS]

00:23:55   this one oh but I don't I don't just [TS]

00:23:57   want Dinosaur Train you know I want the [TS]

00:24:00   one where they [TS]

00:24:01   I'm the Triceratops you know or it [TS]

00:24:03   became this specific you know what we're [TS]

00:24:07   putting on a Nick jr. and whatever's on [TS]

00:24:10   that's what we're watching for the next [TS]

00:24:11   half hour while we eat lunch or whatever [TS]

00:24:13   it is you know well while we try to take [TS]

00:24:15   the trash out and do all these other [TS]

00:24:16   things around the house you're gonna get [TS]

00:24:19   to watch a show for 30 minutes and it's [TS]

00:24:21   whatever's on and he there was this [TS]

00:24:23   transition because for for so long [TS]

00:24:25   we kind of doled out to him oh well we [TS]

00:24:28   only want him to watch so much TV so [TS]

00:24:30   we'll give him this show in this show [TS]

00:24:32   because he seems to like him and we had [TS]

00:24:34   to sort of transition it to this is [TS]

00:24:35   what's on and we don't control what's on [TS]

00:24:38   you know the end and that was his shift [TS]

00:24:41   his mindset change was TV is happening [TS]

00:24:45   and we don't always control it so I like [TS]

00:24:49   it so my kids still request specific [TS]

00:24:51   episodes that makes it was nothing [TS]

00:24:52   interesting Evo is it for us do you have [TS]

00:24:54   a description of a show the one where [TS]

00:24:56   the mean dog says X Y Z and then you've [TS]

00:24:58   got to look through the show [TS]

00:24:58   descriptions to find it but at a certain [TS]

00:25:00   point you get good at finding them I'm [TS]

00:25:01   also using it as a way to teach my kids [TS]

00:25:03   to read because you'll make them read [TS]

00:25:05   the titles and descriptions of the [TS]

00:25:06   show's themselves in the menu but it's [TS]

00:25:08   interesting going through all this when [TS]

00:25:10   they have sort of they can pick any [TS]

00:25:11   episode of any of their shows they want [TS]

00:25:12   to watch it anytime both of them pretty [TS]

00:25:15   quickly arrived upon the random play via [TS]

00:25:17   Daddy technique whether to say just just [TS]

00:25:20   pick any one dad and so I pick a random [TS]

00:25:21   episode and that's what they get to [TS]

00:25:22   watch or their choices now are random [TS]

00:25:25   play by dad the latest episode which [TS]

00:25:28   they do understand the concept of that [TS]

00:25:29   is the one at the top of the list it's [TS]

00:25:30   the newest one even if it happens to be [TS]

00:25:32   a repeat ah and then a specific [TS]

00:25:35   description of you know show me the one [TS]

00:25:36   with this or my daughter who's 3 her [TS]

00:25:38   description is I don't want the one with [TS]

00:25:40   the bugs and I don't want the one with [TS]

00:25:42   you know something else and then you [TS]

00:25:44   pick any from over there so I don't mind [TS]

00:25:48   as long as and and my kids only [TS]

00:25:49   basically watch PBS - so no ads every [TS]

00:25:51   show has some educational content with [TS]

00:25:53   the exception of Clone Wars which the [TS]

00:25:54   chatroom is talking about and yes my son [TS]

00:25:56   is addicted to that as well maybe we [TS]

00:25:59   will do a star wars episode eventually [TS]

00:26:00   but I don't want this to turn into the [TS]

00:26:01   talk show so I mean see alright show [TS]

00:26:04   topic today is actual show topic you [TS]

00:26:08   pick this one as usual yeah before you [TS]

00:26:11   forced me to pick them I would rather [TS]

00:26:12   you just pick them but you know I like [TS]

00:26:14   for you to pick them [TS]

00:26:15   because I'm the one who's writing the [TS]

00:26:16   topics and if I pick them I feel like [TS]

00:26:19   there has to be Chinese ball I write [TS]

00:26:20   down the topics and you pick them it [TS]

00:26:21   adds a little bit of dynamic you know I [TS]

00:26:24   don't know I just feel like if I picked [TS]

00:26:26   them I'll always pick the ones that are [TS]

00:26:27   most interesting to me and perhaps not [TS]

00:26:30   the most interesting to the listener so [TS]

00:26:32   you add a second you're so considerate [TS]

00:26:33   I try so today is a is iOS versus the [TS]

00:26:38   world yeah love that iOS versus the [TS]

00:26:41   world yeah and the short description of [TS]

00:26:44   this was what Apple need huh we just [TS]

00:26:50   lost John hold on because that was who's [TS]

00:26:52   just getting on did what happen [TS]

00:26:54   what happened I'm back yes I had a [TS]

00:26:56   little software malfunction okay so say [TS]

00:26:58   that again cuz I was I was in the edge [TS]

00:27:00   of my seat alright so iOS versus the [TS]

00:27:02   world is what Apple needs to do to [TS]

00:27:04   achieve iPod like success with iOS [TS]

00:27:06   devices and some would argue they [TS]

00:27:10   already have well I in my definition of [TS]

00:27:13   that phrase I'm saying iPod loss like [TS]

00:27:14   success is just complete dominance so if [TS]

00:27:18   you have a digital music player you know [TS]

00:27:19   anyone has a digital music player it's [TS]

00:27:21   an iPod yeah you it's pretty good guess [TS]

00:27:23   it's just like if you know anybody who [TS]

00:27:25   has a computer you know across the [TS]

00:27:27   entire world you can say it's a Windows [TS]

00:27:29   PC yeah I mean among our friends yes [TS]

00:27:31   it's always going to be Mac's or [TS]

00:27:32   whatever but doesn't matter like iPod is [TS]

00:27:33   like Windows it's not like just among [TS]

00:27:35   you know geek nerds who travel the exact [TS]

00:27:38   same tech circles as you do you can [TS]

00:27:39   guess what it's not anybody pick any [TS]

00:27:41   random human in the United States or in [TS]

00:27:43   the first world right and say he has a [TS]

00:27:46   digital use a music player guess what it [TS]

00:27:47   is [TS]

00:27:47   you guys I applaud your right 70% of the [TS]

00:27:49   time just like you guess windows whoo [TS]

00:27:51   right 90% of the time or whatever their [TS]

00:27:52   percentages are um and so I wrote about [TS]

00:27:57   this [TS]

00:27:57   when was that back in the summer thrust [TS]

00:28:02   of the article was something slightly [TS]

00:28:03   different but this was in the core of [TS]

00:28:05   the article the article was called can [TS]

00:28:07   you buy me now which was my play on [TS]

00:28:10   Verizon's can you hear me now thing and [TS]

00:28:12   it was about why Apple needs to go to [TS]

00:28:14   Verizon and why they have to do it soon [TS]

00:28:17   right [TS]

00:28:17   looks like they listened to you well [TS]

00:28:20   yeah then listen to me that's [TS]

00:28:21   interesting though speaking of Apple [TS]

00:28:23   going to Verizon I remember and whenever [TS]

00:28:26   they whenever they had WDC and they [TS]

00:28:28   announced the [TS]

00:28:28   yeah I guess it was the iPhone 4 in June [TS]

00:28:31   of this year was that the announcement [TS]

00:28:33   then was June June or July but anyway [TS]

00:28:38   during the summer when they had WotC and [TS]

00:28:40   everyone was talking about Verizon as [TS]

00:28:41   they always do before any type of thing [TS]

00:28:43   as soon as they came on stage and did [TS]

00:28:44   their presentation about the iPhone I [TS]

00:28:46   just knew January 2011 Verizon iPhone [TS]

00:28:50   like people were talking about it coming [TS]

00:28:52   earlier and they didn't know when the [TS]

00:28:53   contract was gonna be up and they didn't [TS]

00:28:54   know what was going to be but as soon as [TS]

00:28:56   they did that whole presentation on a [TS]

00:28:57   new iPhone didn't mention Verizon once [TS]

00:28:59   and had this brand-new hardware and this [TS]

00:29:01   new OS and everything it was clear to me [TS]

00:29:03   that this is not happening until at [TS]

00:29:05   least 2011 but they want to do it as [TS]

00:29:06   soon as they can so that's one of the [TS]

00:29:08   times I had the clearest premonition [TS]

00:29:11   about when based on nothing really just [TS]

00:29:13   gut instinct based on lend Verizon [TS]

00:29:15   iPhone for coming to turned out to be [TS]

00:29:16   right not that I could do anything with [TS]

00:29:18   that information but that was just a fun [TS]

00:29:21   coincidence but anyway this article was [TS]

00:29:23   about why they need to get on Verizon as [TS]

00:29:25   soon as possible and it was talking [TS]

00:29:27   about how everyone likes to apply the [TS]

00:29:31   Windows PC [TS]

00:29:33   template on top of any sort of tech [TS]

00:29:36   debate used to be they would they would [TS]

00:29:38   apply the the Betamax [TS]

00:29:39   yeah VHS beta maybe just things that [TS]

00:29:42   they applied the VHS Betamax analogy to [TS]

00:29:44   PCs but now now this day and age people [TS]

00:29:47   apply the PC analogy and the PC analogy [TS]

00:29:49   is you know Macintosh came along and it [TS]

00:29:51   was arguably a better product but window [TS]

00:29:53   license Micron's window is far and wide [TS]

00:29:56   and everybody got on board that train [TS]

00:29:58   and Apple was marginalized in Windows [TS]

00:30:00   came to dominate and so that's the [TS]

00:30:02   template that they try to shoehorn every [TS]

00:30:03   single thing into it and then right if [TS]

00:30:05   you were to update that analogy it fits [TS]

00:30:08   pretty well you can say you know today [TS]

00:30:10   Google is Microsoft they're their [TS]

00:30:11   licensing their operating system for and [TS]

00:30:13   what I do know Android is their Windows [TS]

00:30:15   right so you can operating system [TS]

00:30:16   everybody can have they sell it to hard [TS]

00:30:18   drive they sell it they give it away [TS]

00:30:19   actually to hardware makers and an iOS [TS]

00:30:23   is the Macintosh operating system and [TS]

00:30:25   Apple Apple is Apple in both analogies [TS]

00:30:27   which I think is interesting it's like [TS]

00:30:28   the one player that has not changed in [TS]

00:30:30   you know two generations of tech battles [TS]

00:30:33   and the whole article talks about why [TS]

00:30:35   these why do the difference why this [TS]

00:30:37   template doesn't really hold um [TS]

00:30:41   I'll go through a couple the reasons why [TS]

00:30:42   it doesn't hold briefly can read the [TS]

00:30:43   article if you want to but uh for [TS]

00:30:46   pricing Windows PCs were always weight [TS]

00:30:48   cheaper than Mac's still are arguably [TS]

00:30:51   didn't you know knock-knock the not [TS]

00:30:54   equivalent machines but you can get into [TS]

00:30:57   a PC for Less yeah and it wasn't at [TS]

00:31:00   various points it wasn't like five bucks [TS]

00:31:01   cheaper it was like hundreds of dollars [TS]

00:31:03   you know it's something that in the [TS]

00:31:04   mid-90s it was you know double the price [TS]

00:31:06   sometimes for similarly powerful [TS]

00:31:08   computers and that is simply not the [TS]

00:31:11   case with iOS based devices the iPhone [TS]

00:31:15   cost about the same amount as any other [TS]

00:31:17   phone does any other comparable [TS]

00:31:19   smartphone and the main thing is that [TS]

00:31:21   the the majority of the cost of phones [TS]

00:31:23   is not in the phone themselves just in [TS]

00:31:24   the contract Apple doesn't even control [TS]

00:31:25   that price right and that's more or less [TS]

00:31:27   the same for everybody so that's a big [TS]

00:31:30   difference um in this case Apple got the [TS]

00:31:33   critical mass pretty fast with the iOS [TS]

00:31:35   App Store and everything they never [TS]

00:31:37   liked the hip higher iOS market share no [TS]

00:31:39   matter how you measure it then they ever [TS]

00:31:40   did for the Mac even in the Mac's heyday [TS]

00:31:42   I think the Mac barely got above 10% and [TS]

00:31:44   like it's best time and you know apples [TS]

00:31:46   got 16% or something of a smartphone [TS]

00:31:47   market now and in terms of the App Store [TS]

00:31:50   in terms of number of applications and [TS]

00:31:52   downloads Apple never had this kind of [TS]

00:31:53   dominance with Mac apps there were never [TS]

00:31:54   you know 10 times 20 times as many Mac [TS]

00:31:56   apps as window apps right so Apple did [TS]

00:31:59   really get out ahead here um one of the [TS]

00:32:02   big things that people and talk about [TS]

00:32:03   much is that people not shop based on [TS]

00:32:05   spec anymore like they did in the PC [TS]

00:32:07   world there's always like how many [TS]

00:32:08   megahertz how many megabytes how big is [TS]

00:32:10   the hard drive how big is the screen how [TS]

00:32:12   many colors you know they would shop [TS]

00:32:15   based on those criteria and that's why a [TS]

00:32:18   book couldn't be in a price because [TS]

00:32:19   their machines were always more [TS]

00:32:20   expensive for a similar specs that said [TS]

00:32:22   a different software on them right [TS]

00:32:24   people didn't really factor in the [TS]

00:32:25   Socceroos a software is free right but [TS]

00:32:27   now people might shop like that like [TS]

00:32:29   people don't even know the specs of [TS]

00:32:30   their phones they just know it's an [TS]

00:32:33   extent that they care at all about the [TS]

00:32:35   hardware over the phone they just know [TS]

00:32:37   like does it feel fast yeah that's it [TS]

00:32:39   they don't they don't care an apple I [TS]

00:32:41   think it you can you have to credit them [TS]

00:32:43   for that because they've never really [TS]

00:32:45   talked about the specs of the iPhone [TS]

00:32:48   yeah they stop talking about the specs [TS]

00:32:49   of their Macs in fact they don't want to [TS]

00:32:51   talk about that they don't want it they [TS]

00:32:52   know that is not their strength and they [TS]

00:32:54   learned [TS]

00:32:54   PC you know Wars like we're never gonna [TS]

00:32:56   win on that so just to talk about it if [TS]

00:32:58   they could not tell you how fast the CPU [TS]

00:33:01   was in your max they would if they could [TS]

00:33:02   not tell you how much RAM they had they [TS]

00:33:04   would like they just don't want it they [TS]

00:33:06   don't want to talk about that at all and [TS]

00:33:07   and thing is people especially with [TS]

00:33:08   phones people barely even care if it [TS]

00:33:10   feels fast they mostly shop based on [TS]

00:33:12   like whim branding and advertising [TS]

00:33:14   campaign what their friends have [TS]

00:33:16   availability of applications but people [TS]

00:33:18   can put up with pretty crappy interfaces [TS]

00:33:20   and not complain so we all appreciate [TS]

00:33:22   the iOS is awesome because it's [TS]

00:33:23   responsive but I would be cautious about [TS]

00:33:26   assigning too much value to that in the [TS]

00:33:29   wider market because the bottom line is [TS]

00:33:30   most people do not care as much as we do [TS]

00:33:32   you can say they subconsciously notice [TS]

00:33:35   and it does make a difference but it's [TS]

00:33:37   not the deal breaker like it is with us [TS]

00:33:39   like we want to make many sacrifices to [TS]

00:33:42   keep a good interface whereas most other [TS]

00:33:43   people will trade that away much faster [TS]

00:33:45   than we will for some other advantage [TS]

00:33:47   that they consider significant and [TS]

00:33:49   fashion has a lot to do with phones [TS]

00:33:50   people buy phones because they're cute [TS]

00:33:51   because they have a cool case because [TS]

00:33:53   you know there's a Hello Kitty stamped [TS]

00:33:55   on the back whatever much more so than [TS]

00:33:58   laptops and certainly more so than PCs [TS]

00:34:00   even though Apple tried to do that with [TS]

00:34:01   the candy IMAX and everything and people [TS]

00:34:03   did buy them because they were cute [TS]

00:34:05   fashion is much more relevant to things [TS]

00:34:08   that you hold with things especially [TS]

00:34:09   something to use like as much as a phone [TS]

00:34:12   and the final thing that's different is [TS]

00:34:15   one hardware maker versus many hardware [TS]

00:34:17   makers like in the PC Mac Wars it was [TS]

00:34:20   Apple versus an entire industry was [TS]

00:34:22   Apple versus Compaq Dell and a million [TS]

00:34:25   Asian suppliers and Gateway and just [TS]

00:34:27   there was tons and tons of companies and [TS]

00:34:29   then on the Apple side that was just [TS]

00:34:31   Apple and one company can't compete with [TS]

00:34:33   that kind of diversity so there's people [TS]

00:34:34   making pcs for point-of-sale peeking [TS]

00:34:36   leaking and for use in factories right [TS]

00:34:38   waterproof ones that you can use [TS]

00:34:40   underwater you know one shape like a [TS]

00:34:41   shoe with televisions built-in ones with [TS]

00:34:44   stereos but it just it was and those [TS]

00:34:46   companies would go out of business [TS]

00:34:47   because no one wanted those things well [TS]

00:34:48   they would it was a million companies [TS]

00:34:50   all trying every possible thing and the [TS]

00:34:52   ones that stuck kind of survived and [TS]

00:34:53   there was eventually consolidation and [TS]

00:34:54   so on and so forth but during the growth [TS]

00:34:56   period it was tough for Apple to keep up [TS]

00:34:58   even when Apple had like 8 bazillion [TS]

00:34:59   performers that we couldn't keep track [TS]

00:35:01   of and they were trying to sound through [TS]

00:35:02   Sears and everything they still didn't [TS]

00:35:04   have as many products as pcs you could [TS]

00:35:05   get the exact PC that you wanted if you [TS]

00:35:07   couldn't get you could [TS]

00:35:08   that not that many people did that but [TS]

00:35:09   it was tough for Apple to compete in [TS]

00:35:13   that thing but in the sort of modern era [TS]

00:35:16   when they did the iPod they had a [TS]

00:35:18   similar scenario Apple II only company [TS]

00:35:20   that makes iPods Apple and millions of [TS]

00:35:22   companies made digital music players you [TS]

00:35:25   know hundreds of no-name [TS]

00:35:27   you know Asian knockoff things and what [TS]

00:35:30   was it like I don't remember all of them [TS]

00:35:31   Rio or the other ones Samsung made hope [TS]

00:35:34   you know made a whole bunch it really [TS]

00:35:37   was Apple versus tons of other companies [TS]

00:35:38   but Apple showed that if all those other [TS]

00:35:41   things are different all the other [TS]

00:35:42   things that I talked about are not the [TS]

00:35:43   same that just the one hardware hardware [TS]

00:35:47   maker versus many hardware maker issue [TS]

00:35:48   is not enough to you know automatically [TS]

00:35:51   make it so that you can't win so they [TS]

00:35:53   covered the needs of pretty much an [TS]

00:35:55   entire market with just one company's [TS]

00:35:57   product line with three or four products [TS]

00:35:59   start out with one iPod then there was [TS]

00:36:01   two then they replace them inning with [TS]

00:36:03   the Nano then they threw the shuffle in [TS]

00:36:04   the mix now you've got the touch but it [TS]

00:36:06   still may be one two three four models [TS]

00:36:08   and they covered you know 70 80 percent [TS]

00:36:11   of everybody's needs people are not [TS]

00:36:13   skipping an iPod because oh well I want [TS]

00:36:16   one that has this much memory but has [TS]

00:36:17   this form factor but as a screen but [TS]

00:36:19   that has you know that's what people [TS]

00:36:21   will do with PCs they would say well I [TS]

00:36:22   like the Mac but I really want one has [TS]

00:36:24   two slots but I want two hard drive bays [TS]

00:36:26   but I want the second hard drive bay to [TS]

00:36:27   be five and a quarter but I mean nobody [TS]

00:36:29   does that with you know you could do [TS]

00:36:30   that with iPod you could say well the [TS]

00:36:32   current nano stinks because doesn't have [TS]

00:36:34   physical buttons I don't like a [TS]

00:36:34   touchscreen so I have no other options [TS]

00:36:36   that's right you don't have your options [TS]

00:36:37   right don't shop like that it helps it [TS]

00:36:40   there you know an order of magnitude [TS]

00:36:41   less expensive than a PC but people [TS]

00:36:43   literally used to you know shop for mac [TS]

00:36:45   fund find that they couldn't get exactly [TS]

00:36:47   the specs that they wanted and decide [TS]

00:36:49   that well you know I have no other [TS]

00:36:50   options I'm going to go for a PC because [TS]

00:36:52   I have a whole world of choices but that [TS]

00:36:53   doesn't happen in the in the modern era [TS]

00:36:55   when specs don't count that much so you [TS]

00:36:58   know this almost harkens back to the the [TS]

00:37:00   major shift that Apple has made recently [TS]

00:37:03   and I say recently meaning last few [TS]

00:37:05   years you know calling it the year of [TS]

00:37:08   the laptop the year of the portable [TS]

00:37:09   computer they have so de-emphasized Mac [TS]

00:37:13   Pro's that it it it's not like they [TS]

00:37:17   don't admit to making them anymore but [TS]

00:37:19   these things are way in the background [TS]

00:37:21   you know these things are way way off to [TS]

00:37:23   the side as well you know the special [TS]

00:37:25   people who want those we we keep them [TS]

00:37:28   over here and when those people come to [TS]

00:37:29   town we'd say of course you can have one [TS]

00:37:31   of these things but they're not out [TS]

00:37:33   there selling them and marketing them [TS]

00:37:34   it's all you know laptops and IMAX now I [TS]

00:37:38   mean that's really where the their [TS]

00:37:41   emphasis is and it should be I mean [TS]

00:37:42   those are the machines that are that are [TS]

00:37:45   the best and and that they have the best [TS]

00:37:47   luck and success with but it's like [TS]

00:37:50   that's example the customers leading [TS]

00:37:52   Apple tonight right I think you're right [TS]

00:37:54   at a certain point this is kind of like [TS]

00:37:56   audio at a certain point the technology [TS]

00:37:59   advances to where it's covering the [TS]

00:38:02   average person's need it [TS]

00:38:05   technologically speaking so in audios [TS]

00:38:07   cases like when does audio get good [TS]

00:38:08   enough that the average person thinks [TS]

00:38:09   it's good enough and unfortunately for [TS]

00:38:11   audiophiles [TS]

00:38:12   and people like me that happened without [TS]

00:38:14   you know 256 kilobits compressed mp3s [TS]

00:38:18   for most people it's good enough right [TS]

00:38:20   visual fidelity I think we're still [TS]

00:38:22   getting there especially since visual is [TS]

00:38:24   you know 2d and everything instead of [TS]

00:38:26   real 3d like we see in real life so a [TS]

00:38:28   visual fidelity may take much longer the [TS]

00:38:30   current video is not quite good enough [TS]

00:38:32   to most people say that well this is [TS]

00:38:35   this is close enough to the limits of [TS]

00:38:37   human visual perception that I think I'm [TS]

00:38:39   fine with that people still see you know [TS]

00:38:40   difference between HD and SD people see [TS]

00:38:42   the difference between 3d and regular [TS]

00:38:44   even though the 3d is crappy and [TS]

00:38:45   ridiculous they see a difference with [TS]

00:38:47   audio we've reached the point of [TS]

00:38:48   diminishing returns now the customer is [TS]

00:38:50   also recognized in the PC space that at [TS]

00:38:53   a certain point this little laptop does [TS]

00:38:56   everything I needed to do I don't need a [TS]

00:38:57   machine the size of a refrigerator that [TS]

00:38:59   makes horrible noise because thousands [TS]

00:39:00   of dollars and it took a while people to [TS]

00:39:02   get out of the habit of buying those [TS]

00:39:03   things eventually people said you know [TS]

00:39:04   once you get your first laptop you go [TS]

00:39:07   you know what for what I do with the [TS]

00:39:08   computer this laptop does everything I [TS]

00:39:10   need and look how much smaller it is I [TS]

00:39:11   can carry it around and you're just [TS]

00:39:12   never going to buy desktop again after [TS]

00:39:13   that so computing has reached the [TS]

00:39:15   computing networking has reached the [TS]

00:39:17   point where you can fill most people's [TS]

00:39:18   needs with a much smaller simpler [TS]

00:39:20   machine I think it'll keep going in that [TS]

00:39:21   direction maybe all of us have you know [TS]

00:39:23   SuperDuper iPads with larger screens [TS]

00:39:25   that are on whatever is derived from Mac [TS]

00:39:27   OS 10 in the future but once customers [TS]

00:39:30   started doing that and the sales started [TS]

00:39:32   shifting Apple loved it like great we [TS]

00:39:33   hate how selling these gigantic things [TS]

00:39:35   love to sell you more of these small [TS]

00:39:37   devices especially since we've become [TS]

00:39:38   such such an expert company building [TS]

00:39:40   these things with the iPod you know we [TS]

00:39:41   want everything to be completely spec [TS]

00:39:44   lists sealed units that you don't have [TS]

00:39:46   to worry about the internals of that we [TS]

00:39:48   make huge margins out and then we sell [TS]

00:39:50   you so that was a that transition is [TS]

00:39:53   ongoing and so getting back the article [TS]

00:39:56   I ended the article with the my call to [TS]

00:39:58   say you know Apple needs to get on more [TS]

00:39:59   carriers because the one thing the final [TS]

00:40:02   thing is different between the sort of [TS]

00:40:05   iOS Wars and the desktop PC Wars was the [TS]

00:40:09   distribution was not really an issue in [TS]

00:40:11   the old in the old days with Mac PC if [TS]

00:40:14   you wanted to Mac you could get it [TS]

00:40:15   almost anywhere there are resellers on [TS]

00:40:17   every corner you could buy Macs and [TS]

00:40:18   Sears you can buy them a copy USA you [TS]

00:40:20   know you could the distribution wasn't a [TS]

00:40:23   problem retail was everywhere retail [TS]

00:40:24   margins were similar everywhere everyone [TS]

00:40:27   could get to the customers but with you [TS]

00:40:29   know the cell phone market that is not [TS]

00:40:32   the case that the carrier's control [TS]

00:40:34   whether you can get the customers [TS]

00:40:35   because there's no coverage in an area [TS]

00:40:37   where somebody lives or bad coverage you [TS]

00:40:38   just can't sell to them period and you [TS]

00:40:40   have to get on some carrier you can't [TS]

00:40:41   sell a cell phone at all Apple does not [TS]

00:40:43   have a cell network so they are the [TS]

00:40:45   gatekeepers and it seemed like at the [TS]

00:40:47   time I wrote this that Android was [TS]

00:40:49   coming up big because people just wander [TS]

00:40:52   into what they considered the cell phone [TS]

00:40:53   store which is like a kiosk at a mall or [TS]

00:40:55   wherever they bought their last cell [TS]

00:40:56   phone or you know whatever they consider [TS]

00:40:58   the cell phone store and they turn in [TS]

00:41:00   their old phone and they say oh I want [TS]

00:41:01   to get a new one what have you got they [TS]

00:41:02   look around and they pick the best phone [TS]

00:41:04   to see in the store and if Apple stone [TS]

00:41:05   is not in that store they're not going [TS]

00:41:07   to get it if it's a Verizon store apple [TS]

00:41:09   stone is not in it and so they were [TS]

00:41:10   losing you know a huge number of [TS]

00:41:12   customers simply because they weren't [TS]

00:41:13   even in the game you know Apple does [TS]

00:41:15   have its retail store which is a big [TS]

00:41:16   advantage but people don't go to the [TS]

00:41:17   Apple store to buy phones not people who [TS]

00:41:19   are not specifically interested in the [TS]

00:41:21   iPhone you know once they're [TS]

00:41:22   specifically interested in the iPhone [TS]

00:41:24   you've got them already anyway but the [TS]

00:41:25   majority people are just going into the [TS]

00:41:26   phone store turning in their old phone [TS]

00:41:28   for the best new phone and Apple needed [TS]

00:41:30   to get in front of those people and you [TS]

00:41:33   know now they are on Verizon and we saw [TS]

00:41:35   the sales numbers uh yeah I mean they [TS]

00:41:37   are the sales these sales statistics not [TS]

00:41:39   numbers they just said how big they are [TS]

00:41:42   they didn't say quantity right and they [TS]

00:41:44   said that that it was the biggest I've [TS]

00:41:46   the biggest iPhone so the biggest phones [TS]

00:41:49   mail that they sold faster than inactive [TS]

00:41:53   ever they ever offered in and so I don't [TS]

00:41:56   know what those numbers are they sold [TS]

00:41:57   down in I think twelve hours yeah I was [TS]

00:42:01   twelve I was like - it's like two hours [TS]

00:42:03   or something from the time for my 3:00 [TS]

00:42:05   a.m. to 5:00 it really yeah something I [TS]

00:42:08   read this morning said from 3:00 a.m. to [TS]

00:42:09   5:00 a.m. in that two hour window [TS]

00:42:10   Verizon sold out all of its pre-orders [TS]

00:42:13   for the iPhone that's even that's even [TS]

00:42:15   faster than I had heard wow this and the [TS]

00:42:17   thing is that's interesting from like a [TS]

00:42:19   sensational point of view but I that's [TS]

00:42:21   not what I was talking about I'm talking [TS]

00:42:22   about after the people who don't even [TS]

00:42:25   know that you know these people are [TS]

00:42:26   going to buy their iPhones and get them [TS]

00:42:28   early just like you did but a few weeks [TS]

00:42:30   from now when the ads that are running [TS]

00:42:32   in television finally start to penetrate [TS]

00:42:33   the mainstream and someone goes to [TS]

00:42:34   replace their phone you go hey you know [TS]

00:42:36   I'm going to get a new cell phone they [TS]

00:42:37   go to the cell phone store and they go [TS]

00:42:38   there and it's a horizon store and they [TS]

00:42:40   see that there's an iPhone they're like [TS]

00:42:41   I can get an iPhone on my verizon [TS]

00:42:43   contract and the salesperson says you [TS]

00:42:45   certainly can that's that's where the [TS]

00:42:47   big market is it's not these guys who [TS]

00:42:49   were dying to get a Verizon iPhone but [TS]

00:42:51   those are all you know Mac iPhone nerds [TS]

00:42:53   already you've already got people maybe [TS]

00:42:55   they were like you and suffering under [TS]

00:42:56   the yoke of bet ATT coverage and can now [TS]

00:42:59   finally go back to the herd but that's [TS]

00:43:00   not the mass market the mass market of [TS]

00:43:01   the people we're just going to wander [TS]

00:43:03   the store see an iPhone and it's going [TS]

00:43:04   to win because it's better let me let me [TS]

00:43:06   read this to you it says it says that at [TS]

00:43:12   8:10 p.m. [TS]

00:43:13   Verizon ceased online orders the iPhone [TS]

00:43:15   to existing customers and the most [TS]

00:43:17   successful first day sales of the [TS]

00:43:19   history in the history of the company [TS]

00:43:21   this is an exciting day sedan me DS [TS]

00:43:24   president chief executive officer for [TS]

00:43:26   them in in just our first two hours we'd [TS]

00:43:29   already sold more phones than any [TS]

00:43:31   first-day launch in our history and when [TS]

00:43:33   you consider these initial orders were [TS]

00:43:34   placed between the hours of 3:00 a.m. [TS]

00:43:36   and 5:00 a.m. it is an incredible [TS]

00:43:38   success story it is gratifying to know [TS]

00:43:40   that our customers responded so [TS]

00:43:42   enthusiastically to this exclusive offer [TS]

00:43:45   designed to reward them for their [TS]

00:43:47   loyalty that's pent-up demand and that's [TS]

00:43:50   not an explosive bubble and also had [TS]

00:43:52   probably has to do with a lot about [TS]

00:43:53   supply constraint because iPhone 4 has [TS]

00:43:54   been supply constrained for seven months [TS]

00:43:56   and there's no reason to believe that [TS]

00:43:57   the CDMA iPhone 4 is not also going to [TS]

00:43:59   be supply constraint for a long time [TS]

00:44:01   yeah I'm sure Apple wishes [TS]

00:44:02   wasn't the case but it is they can't [TS]

00:44:04   make them fast enough so let me ask you [TS]

00:44:06   this if if I wanted to buy an iPhone 4 [TS]

00:44:09   on 18 t today do you think I would be [TS]

00:44:13   successful I could go to an Apple store [TS]

00:44:15   and buy one let's just say I have no [TS]

00:44:17   cell phone no plans nothing to worry [TS]

00:44:19   about I just want to go buy an iPhone [TS]

00:44:20   today you have to think that by now [TS]

00:44:23   finally the gsm iphone 4 should not be [TS]

00:44:26   supply constraint simply because of the [TS]

00:44:28   rise an iphone thing is siphoning off [TS]

00:44:29   customers and they've had 7 months to [TS]

00:44:32   ramp up on on the gsm iphone 4 you never [TS]

00:44:35   know I guess because like remember the [TS]

00:44:37   we that we was supply constrained for [TS]

00:44:38   like a year and a half or something [TS]

00:44:39   ridiculous like that and it's not like [TS]

00:44:41   these companies don't know how to [TS]

00:44:42   manufacture lots of items it's just at a [TS]

00:44:43   certain point you you know it's like one [TS]

00:44:45   diode or one thing that you can't get in [TS]

00:44:47   enough quantity and that holds up your [TS]

00:44:48   entire line when you're when you're [TS]

00:44:50   selling things in these kind of [TS]

00:44:51   quantities it's very difficult to make [TS]

00:44:53   them as fast as people want to buy them [TS]

00:44:54   ah but I have to think that the 18 T [TS]

00:44:57   iPhone is not going next time there's an [TS]

00:44:59   earnings conference call and they talk [TS]

00:45:01   to them and they say is is the iPhone 4 [TS]

00:45:03   still comply supply constrained on 18 T [TS]

00:45:06   they have to say no I can't imagine it's [TS]

00:45:08   going to be if it is supply constrain [TS]

00:45:09   then Apple's stock is going to go up [TS]

00:45:10   another 50 bucks because that means [TS]

00:45:12   people are just buying iPhones like [TS]

00:45:14   crazy yeah I think the CMA iPhone is [TS]

00:45:17   going to be supply constrained for a [TS]

00:45:18   long time just because it's a brand new [TS]

00:45:19   product even though it looks the same on [TS]

00:45:20   the outside they're all new internals [TS]

00:45:22   and there's this big bubble of demand [TS]

00:45:25   and this is national advertising [TS]

00:45:26   campaign so expect that to be tough to [TS]

00:45:28   get for a while and and it's going to [TS]

00:45:30   limit their sales it's going to limit [TS]

00:45:32   how many applicants sell up which is [TS]

00:45:34   kind of a shame from a learning [TS]

00:45:35   standpoint but they'll get over it [TS]

00:45:37   eventually if anything you know the [TS]

00:45:39   light at the end of tunnel is that the [TS]

00:45:41   iPhone 4 could be supply constrained for [TS]

00:45:43   its entire life and then the iPhone 5 [TS]

00:45:44   comes out this summer and finally you [TS]

00:45:46   can get some iPhone 4s like they're 99 [TS]

00:45:48   bucks at Walmart right exactly [TS]

00:45:50   it'll be a little bit perverse so that [TS]

00:45:54   was that was the article about you know [TS]

00:45:57   what I think I always needs to do to [TS]

00:45:59   achieve iPod like success and the the [TS]

00:46:02   two main thrusts are get on more [TS]

00:46:04   carriers alright check box you know that [TS]

00:46:06   would basically get on more calories [TS]

00:46:07   meant to get on Verizon in the u.s. [TS]

00:46:09   because almost every other country had [TS]

00:46:10   multiple carries already [TS]

00:46:11   u.s. is a huge market it was clear that [TS]

00:46:13   they were number [TS]

00:46:14   and I was trying to explain why it's so [TS]

00:46:17   important for them to get on Verizon [TS]

00:46:19   ASAP before Android comes and eats the [TS]

00:46:21   rest of their lunch and the other thing [TS]

00:46:23   was to try to express that I think it is [TS]

00:46:26   possible for a single vendor with a [TS]

00:46:28   limited product line to come to dominate [TS]

00:46:30   a market because Apple did it with the [TS]

00:46:33   iPod and there's no reason they can't do [TS]

00:46:34   the same thing with the iPhone now that [TS]

00:46:35   would mean they would have to diversify [TS]

00:46:36   their hardware just like they did with [TS]

00:46:38   the iPod I don't remember how long they [TS]

00:46:40   had just one iPod but it was a pretty [TS]

00:46:41   long period of time I mean for a long [TS]

00:46:42   time I was Mac only and then there was [TS]

00:46:44   on Windows and then finally they [TS]

00:46:45   introduced the mini and that kind of led [TS]

00:46:47   to an explosion even though the mini was [TS]

00:46:49   like less value for your money because [TS]

00:46:50   occasion five times less storage for 50 [TS]

00:46:53   bucks less money or whatever it was and [TS]

00:46:54   people you know didn't think that was [TS]

00:46:56   great but I think Apple will eventually [TS]

00:46:59   need to diversify its hardware line they [TS]

00:47:01   kind of have two iPhones now because [TS]

00:47:02   they would take the previous model and [TS]

00:47:04   make that the $99 thing so you kind of [TS]

00:47:06   have the good iPhone that everyone wants [TS]

00:47:08   and then the cruddy one then the kardi [TS]

00:47:10   one is just last year's model mm-hmm I [TS]

00:47:12   think they would benefit from [TS]

00:47:14   diversifying even further going to to [TS]

00:47:16   current model phones and then like you [TS]

00:47:19   know one previous model phone or [TS]

00:47:21   something and I'm not sure now is the [TS]

00:47:23   time to do that I'm certainly not saying [TS]

00:47:24   that they have to make a phone with a [TS]

00:47:25   physical keyboard or go crazy like that [TS]

00:47:27   but they could do like an iPhone nano or [TS]

00:47:29   a decon sented iPhone that you know [TS]

00:47:32   strip out some of the more expensive [TS]

00:47:33   stuff instead of having a really nice 5 [TS]

00:47:36   megapixel camera put a credit camera in [TS]

00:47:37   there and make the phone free with the [TS]

00:47:38   contract or something you know I don't [TS]

00:47:41   know if they're at that point yet but [TS]

00:47:42   downward price pressure I think will [TS]

00:47:44   eventually maybe a year or two from now [TS]

00:47:47   so you wait a minute or two you two [TS]

00:47:48   years from now you'll walk into the [TS]

00:47:51   character of your choice and it will be [TS]

00:47:54   a penny phone I think they have to feel [TS]

00:47:57   the model like that eventually we're in [TS]

00:47:59   the early stages of smartphones [TS]

00:48:00   kind of like the early stages of the PC [TS]

00:48:02   market where everything was fancy do you [TS]

00:48:04   remember in the early years of the Mac [TS]

00:48:06   every Mac that Apple introduced was [TS]

00:48:08   better than all of its previous Macs in [TS]

00:48:10   every possible way [TS]

00:48:11   yeah like the Mac plus there's nothing [TS]

00:48:13   worse about the Mac plus in the Mac 128 [TS]

00:48:15   right or the Mac 512 nothing worse about [TS]

00:48:17   that than the 128 and the plus the SC [TS]

00:48:19   was better than the plus the 128 that [TS]

00:48:21   you know the 512 in every possible way [TS]

00:48:23   that it could be better no spec was not [TS]

00:48:25   better [TS]

00:48:26   right that was what it was like in the [TS]

00:48:27   beginning of a market you just do one [TS]

00:48:29   upmanship and better and better [TS]

00:48:30   eventually Apple had to diversify the [TS]

00:48:32   line editor introduced a computer that [TS]

00:48:34   was not as good as one of its [TS]

00:48:37   pre-existing computers hmm and you know [TS]

00:48:39   once you start down that path nail it's [TS]

00:48:40   just the status quo obviously the [TS]

00:48:42   MacBook is not as good as a previous [TS]

00:48:43   model Mac what produce do it all the [TS]

00:48:45   time [TS]

00:48:45   smartphones will reach that point as [TS]

00:48:47   well smartphones will get to the point [TS]

00:48:48   where it will run apps if I run iOS and [TS]

00:48:51   everything but it's not as good as the [TS]

00:48:53   previous top-of-the-line iPhone 7 or [TS]

00:48:55   whatever and I think that's key to ever [TS]

00:48:58   achieving market dominance like the iPod [TS]

00:49:01   did because the iPod yeah but show the [TS]

00:49:03   one vendor could do it we need more than [TS]

00:49:05   one model if Apple had stuck with the [TS]

00:49:06   iPod Classic they wouldn't have been [TS]

00:49:08   able to dominate the market the way they [TS]

00:49:10   do you need you need to feel some sort [TS]

00:49:12   of diversified team so that people feel [TS]

00:49:14   like oh I've got enough choice just like [TS]

00:49:17   car companies if you're a Ford family [TS]

00:49:18   for life Ford makes enough cars that [TS]

00:49:20   they can sell you a truck a minivan a [TS]

00:49:21   sedan a sporty car they've got a [TS]

00:49:24   diversified line they don't have every [TS]

00:49:25   car in the entire world but they have [TS]

00:49:27   something to fill every kind of need I [TS]

00:49:29   think Apple will need to do that [TS]

00:49:31   eventually um but the underlying thing [TS]

00:49:34   the reason this topic came up or the [TS]

00:49:37   connection to this topic to your recent [TS]

00:49:39   shows is that on a talk show this week [TS]

00:49:41   you're talking about a Gruber's [TS]

00:49:42   obsession with market share yeah it's [TS]

00:49:44   all he's always writing I'm sick I'm [TS]

00:49:46   sick and tired of it really hey [TS]

00:49:47   I mentioned Gruber and market share at [TS]

00:49:49   the end of this article as well [TS]

00:49:51   I mentioned that he's one of the phrases [TS]

00:49:54   that I quoted remember I think was you [TS]

00:49:55   can't cash checks with market share and [TS]

00:49:57   the big difference in profit share and [TS]

00:49:58   market share and you mentioned on the [TS]

00:50:00   show that the thing where he's talked [TS]

00:50:01   about Marcus is just a convenient way to [TS]

00:50:03   keep score yeah [TS]

00:50:05   who's winning listen yeah and it's sort [TS]

00:50:08   of an underlying that the the line item [TS]

00:50:13   I have for this is psychoanalyzing group [TS]

00:50:14   is obsession with market share and it [TS]

00:50:17   really applies to me as well be cycle [TS]

00:50:18   analyzing my own obsession with market [TS]

00:50:20   share and just everybody's of my [TS]

00:50:22   generation and I'm going to try to wrap [TS]

00:50:25   this up quickly because we're almost [TS]

00:50:25   over time but I'm going to do an [TS]

00:50:28   immediate godwyn of this you know [TS]

00:50:30   Godwin's law what is Godwin's law [TS]

00:50:32   Cobbins law is named after some guy [TS]

00:50:34   whose last name I believe is Godwin is [TS]

00:50:36   that in any debate online if it goes on [TS]

00:50:38   long enough someone will make some [TS]

00:50:39   not zero Hitler and Hitler reference [TS]

00:50:41   it's just it's inevitable and that the I [TS]

00:50:44   think is a corollary to order is that [TS]

00:50:46   once someone does that the discussion is [TS]

00:50:47   over a rational discourse can no longer [TS]

00:50:49   happen from that point it actually reads [TS]

00:50:51   as an online discussion grows longer the [TS]

00:50:52   probability of a comparison involving [TS]

00:50:54   Nazis or Hitler approaches one yeah [TS]

00:50:58   that's the Wikipedia page right and I [TS]

00:51:00   think then the main thing and most [TS]

00:51:02   people think of when they say that now [TS]

00:51:03   is that that means it's the end of the [TS]

00:51:04   discussion that means you immediate loss [TS]

00:51:06   to discuss anything rational again is [TS]

00:51:08   hyperbole yeah whoever the other way [TS]

00:51:10   I've heard it said is whoever mentions [TS]

00:51:12   the Nazis loses exactly so I'm going I'm [TS]

00:51:16   going to immediately God God when the [TS]

00:51:18   psychoanalyzing thing but then I'm gonna [TS]

00:51:19   try to pull it back so yes I am here hey [TS]

00:51:21   so I'm going to say that your group is [TS]

00:51:24   obsession with market chair and mine [TS]

00:51:25   obsession with market share is very [TS]

00:51:27   similar to something from my childhood [TS]

00:51:30   done after you talked oh is Marco [TS]

00:51:32   Marco's wife or they grew up in Long [TS]

00:51:33   Island I don't know if you know but I [TS]

00:51:34   grew up in Long Island and you said you [TS]

00:51:36   hadn't heard a Long Island accent in a [TS]

00:51:37   long time you're kind of hearing one for [TS]

00:51:39   me I don't know it's not very strong I [TS]

00:51:41   mean I knew I I just knew years as sort [TS]

00:51:43   of northeastern and I didn't I don't [TS]

00:51:45   think I'll of me I don't have the Jersey [TS]

00:51:48   Shore Long Island accent most of the [TS]

00:51:50   people in Jersey Shore actually from [TS]

00:51:51   Long Island but there's a little [TS]

00:51:53   accident there but any but growing up an [TS]

00:51:54   eye on a lot or perhaps most of my [TS]

00:51:57   friends were Jewish and I would go over [TS]

00:52:00   their houses and you know talk to their [TS]

00:52:01   parents and grandparents and many of [TS]

00:52:03   them I don't know how many maybe all of [TS]

00:52:05   them any of them had grandparents living [TS]

00:52:07   with them the big thing with the [TS]

00:52:08   grandparents of my Jewish friends was [TS]

00:52:10   that they wouldn't ride in German cars [TS]

00:52:11   Oh my grandparents were so upset at me [TS]

00:52:14   that we had a Volkswagen oh my god they [TS]

00:52:16   literally almost spit on the ground [TS]

00:52:18   right it's just it's just an old [TS]

00:52:20   something it's not like I won't buy and [TS]

00:52:23   with them since I was on Long Island and [TS]

00:52:24   my friends were Jewish a lot of them are [TS]

00:52:26   well-to-do it was about like Mercedes [TS]

00:52:27   right you know not only when they not [TS]

00:52:30   buy her Mercedes or they wouldn't ride [TS]

00:52:32   in one so if you had one you came to [TS]

00:52:34   pick them up the grandparents were like [TS]

00:52:35   I will not ride in that car right and [TS]

00:52:37   these people you know their families had [TS]

00:52:40   money they were they living the American [TS]

00:52:41   dream they were successful right they [TS]

00:52:43   could buy nice expensive cars but and [TS]

00:52:46   most of the nice expensive cars for [TS]

00:52:48   German but they would refuse to buy them [TS]

00:52:49   my grandparents exactly the same way [TS]

00:52:51   and the thing is [TS]

00:52:53   actually speaking you said look the [TS]

00:52:55   people who designed and built these cars [TS]

00:52:57   probably weren't born until r2 is over [TS]

00:53:00   right [TS]

00:53:01   these they're these are not the Nazi [TS]

00:53:03   Germany's are your our friend now the [TS]

00:53:04   Nazis are gone these cars are not made [TS]

00:53:06   by Nazis you are not benefiting Nazis or [TS]

00:53:08   anything like that by buying let alone [TS]

00:53:10   riding in these cars this doesn't seem [TS]

00:53:12   like a rational choice and they're [TS]

00:53:13   they're essentially sacrificing their [TS]

00:53:16   comfort and you know their ability to [TS]

00:53:18   have a nice car based on this you know [TS]

00:53:21   attitude they have towards this ah my [TS]

00:53:24   something I tweeted about recently is [TS]

00:53:25   why I was in front of my mind this is [TS]

00:53:27   very similar to my decision not to have [TS]

00:53:29   an Xbox Xbox is a game console made by [TS]

00:53:32   Microsoft right well think it's better [TS]

00:53:34   than the PlayStation in many possible [TS]

00:53:35   ways and I agree that it actually is far [TS]

00:53:39   for the same reason my Jewish friends [TS]

00:53:40   grandparents wouldn't write a German car [TS]

00:53:41   I won't have an Xbox on my ass right and [TS]

00:53:44   this all right the the analogy here is [TS]

00:53:46   isn't that well this feeling that I have [TS]

00:53:50   is the same way about Microsoft as if [TS]

00:53:52   you only other people have but Nazis now [TS]

00:53:53   the analogy is not that the Microsoft [TS]

00:53:55   the Microsoft are Nazis like I owned by [TS]

00:53:56   Microsoft products therefore Microsoft [TS]

00:53:58   equals Nazis now the analogy is about [TS]

00:54:00   the irrationality of the choice is not [TS]

00:54:02   the context it's this idea of making a [TS]

00:54:06   choice that's is hurting yourself for [TS]

00:54:08   irrational reasons based on past events [TS]

00:54:10   that's the analogy the analogy is not [TS]

00:54:12   Microsoft or Nazis all right so I hope [TS]

00:54:16   you can understand this this psychology [TS]

00:54:19   without trying to bring the Nazis into [TS]

00:54:21   it it's it's about a rational choice [TS]

00:54:23   about biting off your nose to spite your [TS]

00:54:25   face based on some past experience now [TS]

00:54:27   it gets get you now a past experience [TS]

00:54:29   that was horrific Microsoft was not [TS]

00:54:31   horrific Nazis are a lot falls apart [TS]

00:54:33   I've just got one the entire [TS]

00:54:34   conversation but this is what popped [TS]

00:54:36   into my mind I think I hope we can all [TS]

00:54:38   keep level heads about this and move on [TS]

00:54:40   from from the analogy but the reason it [TS]

00:54:43   comes up in this context is because that [TS]

00:54:46   struggle of Mac versus PC Apple versus [TS]

00:54:49   Microsoft [TS]

00:54:50   sort of defines the the adolescence and [TS]

00:54:54   Technik technological blossoming of [TS]

00:54:56   people of my generation your generation [TS]

00:54:58   and Gruber's generation who were into [TS]

00:54:59   this type of stuff right it underlies [TS]

00:55:02   everything and the way we think about [TS]

00:55:04   everything and even if we're smart [TS]

00:55:05   enough like in that whole article [TS]

00:55:07   say it's not the same deal with iOS as [TS]

00:55:09   it was with Mac PC even if we're smart [TS]

00:55:12   enough to realize that the Germans who [TS]

00:55:13   built this car were not even born when [TS]

00:55:14   we're work until world war two was over [TS]

00:55:16   right it still it still informs our [TS]

00:55:19   thinking at a subconscious emotional [TS]

00:55:21   level so the reason Gruber and I and [TS]

00:55:26   other people are so obsessed with market [TS]

00:55:28   share is because we live through a [TS]

00:55:31   situation where the better party didn't [TS]

00:55:35   win we felt like and we were [TS]

00:55:36   disappointed by it and we want to make [TS]

00:55:38   sure that that doesn't happen again [TS]

00:55:40   this one one more layer back before I [TS]

00:55:43   bounce all the way back up [TS]

00:55:44   the reason Windows versus Mac was so [TS]

00:55:46   upsetting is because geeks in general [TS]

00:55:48   like meritocracy in order and they want [TS]

00:55:50   the best thing to win and in general [TS]

00:55:54   tech geeks or especially Mac eeks didn't [TS]

00:55:57   think Windows was the better product [TS]

00:55:58   they think it won for reasons that [TS]

00:56:01   didn't seem fair for the same way that [TS]

00:56:03   the jocks were more popular for reasons [TS]

00:56:04   it didn't seem fair to the Nerds right [TS]

00:56:06   there they weren't interesting or smart [TS]

00:56:08   or whatever they just play one game [TS]

00:56:09   better sports or whatever they were [TS]

00:56:11   taller better-looking it didn't seem [TS]

00:56:12   fair wasn't a meritocracy according to [TS]

00:56:14   the merits that we decided well windows [TS]

00:56:15   went ran won the contest for reasons we [TS]

00:56:18   didn't think we're fair and our team the [TS]

00:56:20   Mac lost and we thought it was just [TS]

00:56:21   terrible and the same thing for like [TS]

00:56:23   Amiga users or B users or Atari people [TS]

00:56:25   or whatever but there's many more Mac [TS]

00:56:27   users who worse or for similar reasons [TS]

00:56:28   it's a really good analogy with the [TS]

00:56:30   persecution the Nerds feel like in high [TS]

00:56:32   school right the same persecution that [TS]

00:56:35   those same nerds felt about their [TS]

00:56:36   favorite computer at the hands of [TS]

00:56:37   Windows Windows didn't seem like it [TS]

00:56:39   should win and we hate something that [TS]

00:56:40   shouldn't win winning because doesn't [TS]

00:56:42   deserve to and so that situation of [TS]

00:56:47   saying you know something that we didn't [TS]

00:56:48   think should win did it was so upsetting [TS]

00:56:50   to us that now now we want any battle [TS]

00:56:54   between the product that we enjoy and a [TS]

00:56:55   product that we don't think is worthy we [TS]

00:56:57   want to win it decisively just like [TS]

00:56:59   Windows wanted decisively in our youth [TS]

00:57:01   and the way you do that is is to do a [TS]

00:57:03   Windows dip which is to get massive [TS]

00:57:05   market share to say Windows had 90% [TS]

00:57:07   market share all my friends had Windows [TS]

00:57:09   computers ran Windows period for a first [TS]

00:57:11   approximation therefore for the product [TS]

00:57:14   I like to win now that's what we must do [TS]

00:57:15   we must get market share and group is [TS]

00:57:17   obsession with it is his rational mind [TS]

00:57:18   in my obsession is a rational mind [TS]

00:57:20   trying to reconcile [TS]

00:57:21   with the fact that perhaps that's not [TS]

00:57:22   the case now hmm maybe you don't need [TS]

00:57:24   market share but and you know group post [TS]

00:57:26   about all the time well Apple doesn't [TS]

00:57:28   have market share but look how much [TS]

00:57:28   profit share they have them they're just [TS]

00:57:29   they're selling more phones and they're [TS]

00:57:31   making all the money in the industry [TS]

00:57:32   just trying to you know it's like this [TS]

00:57:33   is trying to convince himself that that [TS]

00:57:36   we are winning but that nagging thing at [TS]

00:57:38   the back of his mind that makes him keep [TS]

00:57:39   coming back to that well is that but [TS]

00:57:41   we're not winning in the way that [TS]

00:57:42   Windows won and so maybe there's still [TS]

00:57:44   the possibility that we keep defeated in [TS]

00:57:46   that way and we must prevent that that [TS]

00:57:47   thing that little you know Marlon man [TS]

00:57:50   lizard brain thing in the back your mind [TS]

00:57:51   is just nagging and making us go back to [TS]

00:57:53   the well of market share and keep [TS]

00:57:55   looking at it keep trying to convince [TS]

00:57:56   ourselves it's okay we don't have market [TS]

00:57:58   share we're not in danger we could still [TS]

00:57:59   win yeah but how can you really win [TS]

00:58:01   unless every single person you know has [TS]

00:58:03   an iPhone unless it's like Windows how [TS]

00:58:05   could how can that be winning remember [TS]

00:58:07   what it was like with Windows don't we [TS]

00:58:08   deserve that victory and that's also [TS]

00:58:10   what makes Mac fans keep going that you [TS]

00:58:13   know let's count the iPad as a PC does [TS]

00:58:15   that help us there's still time to win [TS]

00:58:16   race or like we have this great thing if [TS]

00:58:18   we can throw the iPad into the PC comm [TS]

00:58:20   maybe we can go back and read it you [TS]

00:58:22   know right up Wars yeah still have a [TS]

00:58:25   shot at that one it's not over you know [TS]

00:58:27   and sometimes they want to come out the [TS]

00:58:29   iPad as a PC and a phone because they [TS]

00:58:31   can use it to help the phone war right [TS]

00:58:33   yeah that's our Saint Canada's both you [TS]

00:58:35   know right because then you could then [TS]

00:58:36   go back and win the Wars of the past and [TS]

00:58:38   win this new war I think it's just [TS]

00:58:40   fascinating this I think most people who [TS]

00:58:43   think about this a lot understand that [TS]

00:58:45   this is the case but it's a fascinating [TS]

00:58:46   struggle between our rational minds and [TS]

00:58:48   and you know just all sorts of issues [TS]

00:58:52   tied up in our own adolescents and and [TS]

00:58:55   the desktop PC Wars and deciding what [TS]

00:58:59   victory looks like and I think it's [TS]

00:59:02   unique to people of our age and of our [TS]

00:59:05   particular inclination most other people [TS]

00:59:08   don't care one way or the other that's [TS]

00:59:11   my attempt to explain the the obsession [TS]

00:59:14   with market share and I really don't [TS]

00:59:15   think it's going to go away and even [TS]

00:59:16   within myself I have trouble really [TS]

00:59:20   truly in my heart of hearts believing [TS]

00:59:21   that iOS can win unless it gets you know [TS]

00:59:24   dominant iPod like market share so what [TS]

00:59:29   happen [TS]

00:59:29   if it doesn't win ah if it doesn't win I [TS]

00:59:35   don't think it's that bad that's the [TS]

00:59:36   other thing that you'll see in a lot of [TS]

00:59:38   these stories is the like the bargaining [TS]

00:59:40   stage well you know even if we only get [TS]

00:59:42   ten or 50% look at the Mac the Mac said [TS]

00:59:44   10 and 15% and we're pretty much happy [TS]

00:59:45   with our Mac's right I mean really they [TS]

00:59:48   don't seem to be going away again right [TS]

00:59:50   but we're still sore that we lost but [TS]

00:59:51   it's the you know I'll take the [TS]

00:59:54   consolation price consolation prizes the [TS]

00:59:55   company doesn't go out of business we [TS]

00:59:56   still get to use the computers we want [TS]

00:59:58   it's certainly better than if Apple had [TS]

00:59:59   gone under [TS]

00:59:59   gone under [TS]

01:00:00   I've been bought by Sun or some other [TS]

01:00:01   horrific you know real failure brain so [TS]

01:00:04   we'll take that as a consolation prize [TS]

01:00:06   and that's what you tell yourself when [TS]

01:00:08   you think it's just not going to happen [TS]

01:00:09   when you think just apples apples not [TS]

01:00:10   going to be able to do it [TS]

01:00:11   I think the iPod is really an optimistic [TS]

01:00:13   story the iPod proves that they can do [TS]

01:00:16   it that it's possible that all the [TS]

01:00:18   pieces are there Apple can get it done [TS]

01:00:20   if they make the right moves at the [TS]

01:00:22   right times and a lot of moves they are [TS]

01:00:24   making are good the same sign of things [TS]

01:00:25   to do with the iPod the the reason [TS]

01:00:26   pricing is not an issue anymore is [TS]

01:00:28   because apples been really strong with [TS]

01:00:29   that with the big buys on flash ahead of [TS]

01:00:31   time and everything and cornering the [TS]

01:00:33   market on certain components yeah [TS]

01:00:35   Apple's margins are huge and they're [TS]

01:00:37   parts prices are low and with the phones [TS]

01:00:39   that runs on the same CPU more or less [TS]

01:00:41   they're buying the same parts from [TS]

01:00:44   Qualcomm and Broadcom and all these [TS]

01:00:45   other companies that make the the radios [TS]

01:00:47   in them we're all buying the same flash [TS]

01:00:48   screens from different vendors it's a [TS]

01:00:50   level playing field Nygaard regard and [TS]

01:00:52   Apple is doing really well in that area [TS]

01:00:54   so in a lot of ways they are kind of [TS]

01:00:57   following the same iPod path but it's [TS]

01:00:59   but you know the iPod never had an [TS]

01:01:01   Android like competitor who is competent [TS]

01:01:03   and extremely well-funded and you know [TS]

01:01:07   giving Apple more of a runt Rhodes money [TS]

01:01:09   than any iPod competitor ever did it [TS]

01:01:12   would have been interesting if at Google [TS]

01:01:13   was powerful at the time of the iPods [TS]

01:01:15   you know ascent to the throne see if [TS]

01:01:18   they would have fielded a competitive [TS]

01:01:19   and b3 player that synced with Google [TS]

01:01:21   wirelessly or something that that would [TS]

01:01:24   have been interesting to see if the Ames [TS]

01:01:25   Ames hi Google this point is kind of [TS]

01:01:27   doing the Microsoft thing where they [TS]

01:01:29   they'll just want to be in every [TS]

01:01:30   business you're like the way to ask them [TS]

01:01:31   to make money let's get them maybe they [TS]

01:01:33   would have thought there was no way from [TS]

01:01:33   the big money with portable and B 3 [TS]

01:01:35   players but we'll see it's only 8 [TS]

01:01:38   minutes over not bad well I mean we [TS]

01:01:40   started 5 minutes late yeah so really [TS]

01:01:44   we're only two two and a half minutes [TS]

01:01:45   over yeah this this whole issue I feel [TS]

01:01:49   like is underlying every discussion on [TS]

01:01:52   you know on the talk show and really [TS]

01:01:54   analyze it everything about market share [TS]

01:01:57   because it's it's all it's all a bunch [TS]

01:01:59   of guys who are all in our 30s who lived [TS]

01:02:01   through the Mac PC Wars and I think all [TS]

01:02:04   of us are struggling with this this [TS]

01:02:06   feeling inside when we discuss this [TS]

01:02:09   issue [TS]

01:02:10   it's the subtext of everything that gets [TS]

01:02:11   written about it [TS]

01:02:15   that's it though that's it for this show [TS]

01:02:17   I feel like it is I mean you get we [TS]

01:02:19   gotta end at some point a little bit of [TS]

01:02:22   ranting but that's not bad no this is [TS]

01:02:23   great this is I feel like we're finally [TS]

01:02:25   starting to get comfortable you know [TS]

01:02:27   what I mean like you're finally starting [TS]

01:02:28   to loosen up a little I was uptight on [TS]

01:02:30   the first three rows you think well [TS]

01:02:32   especially the first one but you're you [TS]

01:02:34   know you this is the kind of rant I [TS]

01:02:36   expected from you all along now I'm [TS]

01:02:38   going to be disappointed if it doesn't [TS]

01:02:40   happen if we go through a show where you [TS]

01:02:43   don't have a little bit of a tirade on [TS]

01:02:45   I'm going to think it was not a [TS]

01:02:46   successful show and there goes there [TS]

01:02:50   goes your mic right there right on cue [TS]

01:02:52   right on schedule [TS]

01:02:53   we'll end it say goodbye are you replug [TS]

01:02:59   in how's that better yeah and it's fixed [TS]

01:03:04   all done [TS]

01:03:05   good bye everybody thanks so thanks for [TS]

01:03:10   tuning in appreciate you being here [TS]

01:03:13   great topic it's a problem with the [TS]

01:03:15   Ranchos is now you've got a lot more [TS]

01:03:16   editing star for you or your editor no [TS]

01:03:17   no we're don't edit any I keep it all [TS]

01:03:19   but did you did you order your t-shirts [TS]

01:03:22   you don't have to I'll send you one did [TS]

01:03:24   not order t-shirts oh I will eventually [TS]

01:03:25   if you had not sent me t-shirts and if [TS]

01:03:28   you never get around this anyway no [TS]

01:03:29   teachers I will probably eventually buy [TS]

01:03:31   one because I have a clothes only [TS]

01:03:32   there's only a week left [TS]

01:03:34   we're only keeping it open for a couple [TS]

01:03:36   weeks so if you guys are listening you [TS]

01:03:37   haven't gotten your t-shirts yet you go [TS]

01:03:39   to store it on 5x5 TV and you get a [TS]

01:03:41   t-shirt for another week before we shut [TS]

01:03:43   it down today you have to do a limited [TS]

01:03:46   run thing yeah so yeah so check that out [TS]

01:03:50   thanks everybody for tuning in we also [TS]

01:03:52   want to say thanks to our sponsors at [TS]

01:03:54   doe Viacom campaign monitor comm and [TS]

01:03:57   also thanks to MailChimp comm who's been [TS]

01:04:00   paying for our bandwidth this month so [TS]

01:04:04   that you guys can download all in these [TS]

01:04:05   episodes so thank you to to all of them [TS]

01:04:07   John have a good one we'll be back next [TS]

01:04:10   week and Friday at noon right that's [TS]

01:04:13   right maybe we'll talk about backups all [TS]

01:04:15   right all right very good take it take [TS]

01:04:17   care have a good one [TS]

01:04:27   you [TS]