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Hypercritical

3: The Mouse is Not a Finger

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0:00:00[Music]

0:00:01this is episode three of hypercritical a

0:00:04weekly talkshow ruminating on exactly

0:00:06what is wrong the world of Apple and

0:00:08related technologies and businesses

0:00:10nothing is so perfect

0:00:12that it can't be complained about at

0:00:13least not by John siracusa my co-host

0:00:17and I'm Dan Benjamin we would like to

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0:01:10MailChimp calm John siracusa how are you

0:01:13doing just fine

0:01:15Friday afternoon noon noon o'clock yep

0:01:18and as usual we have some topics lined

0:01:23up but we wanted to start and this seems

0:01:25like a theme because you told me ahead

0:01:26of time you said already Dan I already

0:01:28have some some follow up on last week's

0:01:30show so maybe that's how we should start

0:01:32off every show with a little bit of

0:01:34follow up from the previous week's show

0:01:36something you want to complain about

0:01:37yeah I guess it depends on what we

0:01:40talked about because I bet when we do

0:01:41the shows were just like speculating

0:01:43about the future of Apple stuff or

0:01:44whatever maybe there won't be so much

0:01:45follow up at any time we do a practical

0:01:47show talking about you know things you

0:01:49can do on your computer inevitably this

0:01:51I mean there's tons of chat that I

0:01:52missed during the show and then there's

0:01:54email and Twitter and there's always

0:01:55just stuff to follow up on so the back

0:01:58up show is no different got a lot a lot

0:02:00of feedback on that and I asked some

0:02:03questions during the show that people

0:02:04answered afterwards so I just wanted to

0:02:06to follow up on that because not

0:02:07everybody reads my Twitter stream or

0:02:09reads the show notes alright so let's

0:02:11get that out of the way

0:02:12shame on everybody who doesn't follow

0:02:14John on Twitter because John only has

0:02:16like a couple thousand followers which

0:02:18is weird because you have you know every

0:02:21time you do a post on ours you're going

0:02:23to get a hundred thousand readers that

0:02:26afternoon so people can can follow you

0:02:29on twitter siracusa there's Serie cute

0:02:31nosy right nosy sound and definitely

0:02:36nosey letter as well all right si RAC

0:02:38you si and I'm Dan Benjamin on Twitter

0:02:40and people should know that already but

0:02:42it followed John and then you can

0:02:43interact John actually reads his Twitter

0:02:45and he responds to you that's the nice

0:02:47thing about not having a lot of

0:02:48followers is that I can actually respond

0:02:51to a reasonable percentage of the people

0:02:54who reply to me you aren't spam bots

0:02:56right but Twitter Twitter's weird like

0:02:59with a number of followers like some

0:03:01people have just huge numbers of

0:03:03followers all out of proportion to like

0:03:06the amount of time as they tweet or you

0:03:08know there's like celebrities who tweet

0:03:09once a month right million followers

0:03:11well it's because they're a celebrity so

0:03:13it's it kind of like I can't know I

0:03:15don't know I can't figure out anything

0:03:16online that's similar to it but people

0:03:18are following to express their their

0:03:22appreciation for the person and if it's

0:03:24a famous person lots of people like them

0:03:26so by following the things they're

0:03:27saying I really like you know celebrity

0:03:29X Y Z but then they never read that

0:03:32person's tweets or maybe they never use

0:03:34Twitter again or if that celebrity

0:03:36doesn't tweet more than three times a

0:03:39year they forgot that they follow them

0:03:40but it seems like it's just a measure of

0:03:43name recognition more than a measure of

0:03:45the people who are good to follow so

0:03:46when Twitter tries to recommend people

0:03:48it gives recommendations based on

0:03:50similar follows and stuff but it there's

0:03:52no way to express like yeah follow this

0:03:54person but I also like the tweets I find

0:03:56our tweets informative you know a lot of

0:03:58the people I follow have very few

0:03:59followers but I feel like the content of

0:04:02the tweets is you know tailored just for

0:04:05me whereas some people I follow have

0:04:06millions of followers and I would not

0:04:10rate them as highly as the other people

0:04:12that I follow

0:04:12well Johnny also seems like there's a

0:04:14threshold as far as as far as the the

0:04:17whole following phenomenon and it it

0:04:19seems to work that the people who have

0:04:22a a modest number a high number but a

0:04:26modest number of followers like like you

0:04:28and anywhere in that ten thousand range

0:04:30you're right up there it seems like at

0:04:32that point you can still communicate

0:04:34pretty well with the people that follow

0:04:36you it's not overwhelming you don't you

0:04:39know you can you can respond and you're

0:04:41but there's enough people that you're

0:04:43not going to say Oh got a nice haircut

0:04:45today you know you're aware that there's

0:04:48an audience there but then when you when

0:04:51you get I've noticed that when you get

0:04:53into that hundred thousand range which

0:04:55seems to be the next big threshold uh

0:04:58it's almost impossible to tweet without

0:05:00upsetting somebody I don't really care

0:05:02about upsetting people but even with my

0:05:03meager following that I have I do feel

0:05:05some responsibility - if you were to

0:05:09look back in my Twitter stream I want it

0:05:11to be like what you would expect so I

0:05:12think what people expect when they

0:05:13follow me is for me to talk about Mac

0:05:15Apple tech news gaming stuff

0:05:17occasionally a sneek went in there about

0:05:19you know my kids or whatever but for the

0:05:21most part it's not going to be you know

0:05:23a stream about what I ate for dinner a

0:05:26particular day right it's just the

0:05:28majority of it is going to be mac nerd

0:05:30tech news because that's what I think

0:05:31people are expecting when they follow me

0:05:33so I do feel that responsibility I felt

0:05:34that even when I have like 300 followers

0:05:36because you just don't want to annoy

0:05:37other people with trivial stuff you know

0:05:40no I'm with you and I don't I never knew

0:05:42you I said you know people get upset

0:05:46about everything that really doesn't

0:05:47bother me if someone has a legitimate

0:05:49point and they're also upset that's

0:05:51still worth responding to but I don't

0:05:53think I would feel impaired if hundreds

0:05:56of thousands of people were following me

0:05:57and everything I said got anger

0:05:58responses people would get angry about

0:06:00everything

0:06:01that's true including me she was always

0:06:06tyrant yes oh shut up backup stuff so

0:06:09I'm gonna start out with a said tale I

0:06:12think I mentioned this last time that my

0:06:14sister was having hard disk problems I

0:06:15thought I did but her story has taken

0:06:19the turn for the worst so she has a

0:06:21problem with her internal drive which I

0:06:22tried to debug over remote desktop and

0:06:25Disk Utility wasn't having couldn't

0:06:29couldn't fix it and so the choices are

0:06:30like well buy something like this

0:06:31warrior or try another utility or

0:06:34or you know I told her to take her whole

0:06:37Mac to the to the Apple store and see

0:06:39what they could do and they ended up

0:06:40replacing tons of stuff like the

0:06:42motherboard and the hard drive Melissa

0:06:43things like that

0:06:44and I had her you know a fire wire

0:06:47attached Time Machine drive but then she

0:06:48told me that her firewire external hard

0:06:51drive had gone bad months ago and so she

0:06:56didn't do anything about it because a

0:06:57regular person you know all that you

0:06:59know they see that box attached and they

0:07:01know that I told them they have to keep

0:07:02plugged in involved blah and they know

0:07:04that it's for backup purposes I

0:07:05understand right they understand that

0:07:07you know this is my but then they just

0:07:09don't think they just don't think if

0:07:10there's not that important to them so

0:07:11when their internal drive goes bad you

0:07:15know and you explain to them well you

0:07:16see the backup Drive that's been broken

0:07:18for a month I that was your safety net

0:07:22yeah I mean I mean now you have two

0:07:24broken drives and you know all her

0:07:26pictures of her kids and all her movies

0:07:28and everything are on these two broken

0:07:29drives so now she's at the mercy of you

0:07:32know Drive savers which is quoting her

0:07:33like anywhere from $700 to $2,500 to

0:07:36restore from either one of those disks

0:07:38have you ever used a service like that I

0:07:41never have thankfully but I would if I

0:07:44had to like if I all I had was you know

0:07:46like she does two damaged disk drives

0:07:48with all my pictures and my kids in them

0:07:50I would pay almost anything to get those

0:07:51things off of there um but the fact

0:07:54she's looking into that now is like

0:07:55she's notoriously a cheapskate about

0:07:57buying technology stuff she's kind of

0:07:59like like that Seinfeld episode where

0:08:00the old people don't want to buy

0:08:01batteries I don't know if you've watched

0:08:03sign oh yeah yeah buys batteries because

0:08:05battery seemed like such an alien thing

0:08:07that you shouldn't have to pay money for

0:08:08well same thing there with technology

0:08:09pay so much money for a computer it just

0:08:12seems silly right because it's not

0:08:14something in her mind Lane but she uses

0:08:17it like crazy she's on internet all the

0:08:19time or whatever was just that people

0:08:20can't overcome that barrier people have

0:08:22the pass off for true they can't

0:08:23overcome the barrier of paying money for

0:08:24software despite the fact that they use

0:08:25it constantly and derive huge value from

0:08:27it it's just not in the category in

0:08:29their mind of things they want to pay

0:08:30for so now you know because she didn't

0:08:32want to bother getting that external

0:08:34hard drive fixed or didn't seem

0:08:35important enough to her or whatever or

0:08:37she didn't want to pay to replace it if

0:08:39it was really broken pay the 200 bucks

0:08:40or whatever now she's staring it and

0:08:42down at you know eight hundred to twenty

0:08:44five hundred dollar bill Wow

0:08:45try to get her data back on there's no

0:08:46guarantees on that I mean

0:08:48it was there an opportunity to try

0:08:50people in the chat room or saying this

0:08:52to if you know something like dis score

0:08:54you're on it or was there was that was

0:08:56it beyond hope well that that was my

0:08:58suggestion she doesn't have any of these

0:08:59programs so I said well you're gonna

0:09:00have to get disc warrior and try it and

0:09:02you know just worries 100 bucks it's

0:09:04still cheaper than drive service but

0:09:05there's no guarantee I mean this could

0:09:07be two failed mechanisms she's had them

0:09:09for years and the other thing is disc

0:09:12warriors potentially well I don't know

0:09:14they say it's not they say it's going to

0:09:15rebuild your directory index separately

0:09:17and not write a single thing to your

0:09:19disk until it's sure that it can restore

0:09:21it exactly but I always get weary of

0:09:23using a software product to try to fix a

0:09:25disc when it is literally my only

0:09:27repository for this data you know if I

0:09:29had back up some stuff I would try to

0:09:31restore it and you know in the old days

0:09:33like Norton you tell you something would

0:09:34bring your disc back to a consistent

0:09:36state but you'd lose a folder or two or

0:09:37you lose a couple of files or you know

0:09:39any files that are on those damaged of

0:09:40blocks or something you might lose them

0:09:42and when this is your only copy

0:09:45potentially your only copy I I really

0:09:47would rather have you know drive savers

0:09:50scour the disk with whatever crazy

0:09:51machines they have and just pull every

0:09:53single byte off of there and just

0:09:55restore everything in a non-invasive way

0:09:57so this but this brings up a question

0:09:59though and this is something that that

0:10:00you identified on the last show very

0:10:04very good advice is that everybody needs

0:10:07to know that hard drives fail and it's

0:10:09it's not a matter of if it's a matter of

0:10:11when whether it's a year or less or

0:10:14whether it's a couple years you know

0:10:16that that's a legitimate concern but

0:10:19should you be thinking about that I mean

0:10:21if you have a computer that's three

0:10:23years old should you be saying to

0:10:24yourself in the back your mind this hard

0:10:27drive is probably going to fail sometime

0:10:28soon I use this thing eight hours a day

0:10:30every day it's been for you know three

0:10:32something years this thing's going to go

0:10:34the same way that you can go and you say

0:10:36to your you know oh man we put fifty

0:10:38thousand miles a year on this car after

0:10:40after a certain amount of time the tires

0:10:42are going to need to be replaced the

0:10:43brakes are going to need to be replaced

0:10:44it's just stuff you need to do should

0:10:46you think of it like that I think if you

0:10:49go down that road that's what makes you

0:10:51that's probably what made my sister say

0:10:52oh this is a new computer it's it's a

0:10:54flat-screen iMac maybe two generations

0:10:56ago but in her mind is still a new

0:10:57computer so I think it'll be fine you

0:10:59have to have your backup plan in place

0:11:01day one and not wait until you get that

0:11:04nagging feeling like you would with an

0:11:06old car because people are not good at

0:11:08getting that feeling about computers you

0:11:10know and she's a great example she still

0:11:11considered this her new computer because

0:11:13her old iMac was one of those lampshade

0:11:15ones all right with the bendable neck

0:11:17see yeah that's that's her old I feel

0:11:19this is clear this is clearer than new

0:11:20one so of course the new ones not going

0:11:22to break that's I think what was making

0:11:23her not take action on getting her

0:11:26backup hard drive fixed screeches like

0:11:28well you know it was a backup but so

0:11:29what this is the new iMac I'm sure it'll

0:11:30be fine so I don't think you can rely on

0:11:32that feeling you have to really have

0:11:34your backups from day one going and then

0:11:36you might still get that feeling I

0:11:37certainly do and maybe that'll make you

0:11:39a little bit extra vigilant about your

0:11:41backups maybe increase the frequency you

0:11:43know like I would increase the frequency

0:11:44with my SuperDuper backup so I felt like

0:11:46my hard drive was three years old or

0:11:47something but you can't rely on that you

0:11:50just have to assume that any second it's

0:11:52going to go bad you have to have a plan

0:11:53for it well I talked to Dave nanion this

0:11:55morning apparently he's been you know

0:11:58touring or what I don't know you know

0:12:00what everyday he travels and stuff

0:12:01skiing in the Alps or so yeah something

0:12:03like that and I asked him if he had

0:12:04listened to last week's hypercritical

0:12:06and he said no I haven't listened up and

0:12:08I've been you know I was on the slopes

0:12:10or whatever the software developers get

0:12:11to do and and I said you know you need

0:12:14to listen to it because we talked about

0:12:16super duper a quite a bit in it and I've

0:12:19had a lot of people over the last week

0:12:21asking me about that product in

0:12:23particular I but I wanted to get your

0:12:26take so if I had to get a recommendation

0:12:29from you do you think that cloning is

0:12:33better and I know there's a hard

0:12:35question answer is cloning better than

0:12:37incremental backups in general from your

0:12:39perspective for the regular I'm talking

0:12:41for the regular person I don't think it

0:12:43is because it's not built into the

0:12:45operating system for it's the same

0:12:47reason I gave last time that I was

0:12:49recommending a time machine over

0:12:50SuperDuper because you doesn't require

0:12:53you to buy another piece of software

0:12:55even though it's cheap and well worth

0:12:56the money it doesn't require you to

0:12:57remember to set it up and run it and set

0:12:59it on a schedule or any of those things

0:13:01that there's so much that can go wrong

0:13:03for people who are not into computers

0:13:05getting that scenario set up whereas

0:13:07with time machine literally all you have

0:13:11to do is the hardware especially with a

0:13:12desktop you just plug it in turn it on

0:13:13once and forget it even exists

0:13:15it's not as good in time in the time of

0:13:17a restore maybe because like if you if

0:13:21you say alright my main harder it goes

0:13:23bad I want to be able to reboot into a

0:13:25working system within 15 minutes

0:13:26super duper is your only choice there

0:13:27right if something goes wrong and you're

0:13:30using time machine you have to go

0:13:31through the whole time machine restore

0:13:32procedure you can't boot from your time

0:13:34machine drive you probably need to buy

0:13:35another hard drive but I think this

0:13:36impediment is probably appropriate for

0:13:37regular people because you don't want

0:13:39them to be able to immediately boot into

0:13:40the secondary drive because now they're

0:13:42sailing without a net and a regular

0:13:44person will just keep using that

0:13:44secondary drive for months until it goes

0:13:46bad you don't I mean yeah so time

0:13:48machine is still my recommendation for

0:13:50non tech savvy none you know the people

0:13:53who aren't into computers they just want

0:13:54to use it I want it to work I have to go

0:13:56with time machine it's built in and all

0:13:58of the things that are annoying to geeks

0:14:00about it I think would actually help

0:14:01regular people make sure they do the

0:14:03right thing

0:14:03geeks of course should know the

0:14:05trade-offs and use whichever one they

0:14:07find is appropriate I think they would

0:14:08know that I've rebooted my SuperDuper

0:14:10backup I missed whatever files that have

0:14:13been changed since then so maybe a day's

0:14:15worth of work I know I'm now sailing

0:14:17without a net I know I can't use this

0:14:18permanently I know I need to figure out

0:14:20what's wrong with the internal drive and

0:14:21buy a new one or fix it or whatever you

0:14:23know it's totally different for people

0:14:25who are listeners of the show basically

0:14:27but now that for the non

0:14:28computer or savvy listeners of the

0:14:30show's family I would say Time Machine

0:14:32ok alright so let me move on so he gets

0:14:35a couple more follow up things here

0:14:37people kept asking where I said to buy

0:14:40hard drives from and I guess I misspoke

0:14:42or wasn't clear with the site I was

0:14:44referring to which will be in the show

0:14:45notes and I actually put it in last

0:14:46week's show knowledge to is storage

0:14:48review.com and it's not to buy hard

0:14:50drives is to research them if you were a

0:14:52nerd and you want to know which hard

0:14:54drive mechanism has the best balance of

0:14:57performance price capacity and noise or

0:14:59whatever criteria you want they have

0:15:01this awesome tool there with a bunch of

0:15:03checkboxes you can compare drives on any

0:15:05criteria that you want and then put a

0:15:06big graph of them it's it's excellent

0:15:09any time I buy a hard drive since I

0:15:11mostly buy internals I go to that side

0:15:12and figure out what is the the top drive

0:15:14and they have they have these leader

0:15:15boards they call them where they show

0:15:17you what's the best desktop hard drive

0:15:18you can buy and they usually give one or

0:15:20two choices and what's the best clap top

0:15:21hard drive what's the best SSD what's

0:15:23the best you know home theater hard

0:15:25drive and I tend to shop mostly by price

0:15:29cassadee and speed but I also always

0:15:31throw in noise because I'm really

0:15:32sensitive to that so I love how you how

0:15:34you say to the people who are listening

0:15:36to the show well if you're nerds you I

0:15:39don't know they're all I was listening

0:15:41anyone goes it's not it's not an insult

0:15:43to call somebody nerd in 2011 I don't

0:15:46know I still be an insult but mmm we're

0:15:48all nerds we know who we are

0:15:49yeah very shouldn't be it's not an

0:15:51insult to nerds insult to people who

0:15:53don't want like to think of themselves

0:15:54so where do you buy your drives from

0:15:56yeah so then I after a researcher that

0:15:58just gives me a product name and that

0:15:59side has like links to different places

0:16:01you can buy them in price checking

0:16:02things or whatever but I tend to just go

0:16:04to my old standbys I like Newegg I have

0:16:06a lot of good luck with them they have

0:16:07usually have good prices newegg.com I

0:16:10buy from Amazon I just sometimes do

0:16:13Google searches and sort by price and

0:16:14find the first dealer that I find

0:16:15reputable with the mechanism but the

0:16:17hard drive mechanism when you're buying

0:16:18a raw mechanism there's nothing that

0:16:20comes in the box it's just the dry

0:16:21there's no cabling there's no stuff like

0:16:23that the warranty is provided by the

0:16:24manufacturer not by the company that you

0:16:26buy through so I'm not really that

0:16:30worried about the vendor you just pick

0:16:33wherever has a cheapest price on it you

0:16:35feel as long as it's not really

0:16:36fly-by-night you know yeah I usually go

0:16:39the Amazon yeah that's you know if you

0:16:42have Amazon Prime yeah shipping it's

0:16:44just yeah Amazon Prime is the best thing

0:16:46in the world if you buy one TV every

0:16:48three years you more than pay for Amazon

0:16:51company something I think people don't

0:16:52know about Amazon Prime is that you can

0:16:54go in on it with several different

0:16:55people so whatever the price is per year

0:16:57you can split that among several people

0:16:59right or you can you can give it to

0:17:01family members who might want to need it

0:17:03as their Christmas gift it's you if you

0:17:05by any reasonable amount of stuff from

0:17:07Amazon during a year you will easily

0:17:08make your money back and Christmas slow

0:17:10and you might get back on shipping and

0:17:11it's just great because I no longer have

0:17:13to worry about bundling up products into

0:17:15multiple shipments I mean if I look at

0:17:16new egg in the price for something I was

0:17:18just actually looking this morning at a

0:17:20Western Digital caviar black drive one

0:17:23terabyte drive and I think it's like 89

0:17:26bucks at new egg and it's you know are

0:17:2889 bucks at Amazon and 84 bucks plus

0:17:30shipping at new egg but I can get free

0:17:32shipping at Amazon and ones a you know

0:17:33but it's it drives you're so

0:17:35competitively priced these days so

0:17:37you're really not going to find a big

0:17:38difference a what's the next thing on

0:17:40your list

0:17:40so I've got I was trying to remember the

0:17:43name of that other s3 based backup

0:17:46service that's a backup service that

0:17:48uses Amazon's s3 service for its storage

0:17:50so you end up having to pay a fee for

0:17:52the s3 storage as well as paying for the

0:17:54application right and I couldn't

0:17:56remember the name of it but I looked it

0:17:58up afterwards and it's arc AR Q it's by

0:18:00haystack software it's haystack software

0:18:03comm /a RQ a or Q and it's it's kind of

0:18:06like an Indy Mac version of this where

0:18:08they're concentrating 1% on the Mac if

0:18:10you look at their home page for this

0:18:12product they they show how they are the

0:18:14only product and the ones that they list

0:18:16anyway it does 100% save and restore of

0:18:19all Mac specific metadata there's a

0:18:21little program called backup bouncer

0:18:23that it's like a benchmark but they'll

0:18:25make a bunch of files with esoteric

0:18:27metadata set and you're supposed to back

0:18:29them up with your software and then

0:18:30restore it and then it will diff the two

0:18:32and see if you missed any flags or

0:18:33missed any permissions or ACLs or the

0:18:35millions of other things that could be

0:18:36in there and their product is the only

0:18:38one that passes all the tests with

0:18:40flying colors no it is a little bit more

0:18:42expensive because s3 charges you for you

0:18:45know sending and receiving it also

0:18:46charges you for the permanent storage it

0:18:49really depends on how much data you have

0:18:50I guess but it's not like one of those

0:18:51flat rate unlimited things but it is

0:18:53definitely interesting and I really like

0:18:54when I see a product that boasts on its

0:18:57homepage we understand the Mac we do

0:18:59this better than anybody and I've been

0:19:00on the back of all the other companies

0:19:03you know by Twitter or various email

0:19:04feedback to say you guys have to be

0:19:06better about saving and restoring Mac

0:19:07metadata like I said with Backblaze it

0:19:09is not good about doing that and I'm

0:19:11accepting that trade-off just because

0:19:13it's inexpensive and that's not what I I

0:19:15plan on using it for but I'm definitely

0:19:19aware of this issue and I just wish

0:19:21everybody would get better at that we

0:19:23could do a whole show and meditate it -

0:19:25yes maybe that'll be a different one Wow

0:19:27what else available and CrashPlan a lot

0:19:29of people talking about CrashPlan i

0:19:30mentioned it on the other thing i said

0:19:31if i was going to go from back plays the

0:19:32first place I would look is CrashPlan

0:19:34lots of people like it I've heard bad

0:19:36things about the Java client and I've

0:19:38got the feedback on the show some people

0:19:40agree the Java client is a little bit

0:19:41bloated and on Mac like but other people

0:19:43say they've had no problems with in it

0:19:44it seems snappy to them so I guess it

0:19:46just depends on what your expectations

0:19:47are but the pricing now is very close to

0:19:50what back place has the only downside is

0:19:52that I think don't think they have a

0:19:53month-to-month option

0:19:54and one crash my feature that it didn't

0:19:56mention that a lot of people are fans of

0:19:57is that you can send your data to

0:19:59another Mac that has crash plane on it

0:20:01right so you don't have to send it to s3

0:20:03or up into their cloud thing I think you

0:20:05can even do this for free with their

0:20:06free version if you and your buddy both

0:20:08get free versions and you both have

0:20:10Fastnet connections you can backup to

0:20:11each other rather than outright or even

0:20:13even if it's just you you can back up to

0:20:15another one in another location you

0:20:17could backup you could put an old Mac on

0:20:19you know on your your parents network at

0:20:22home or whatever and and use it you

0:20:24could do it on the same network so that

0:20:25that was going to mention that too that

0:20:27they do have some compelling features

0:20:28the only downside and it's really not

0:20:30that big of a downside I have used the

0:20:33CrashPlan client it's not a bad client

0:20:36it doesn't necessarily feel and look and

0:20:38work exactly like all the Mac OS 10 apps

0:20:40that we were used to but it's not bad so

0:20:43lets you know that that's a certainly a

0:20:45fair alternative and there's i think i

0:20:48think there are advantages to each but i

0:20:50think you're right i don't think that

0:20:51they have a month-to-month they just do

0:20:55the one year i think that they have a

0:20:57family plan for two to ten computers for

0:20:59like 120 year they're a whole year thing

0:21:01is about fifty bucks which is pretty

0:21:02much the same as back Blaze's pricing

0:21:04and they've gotten a lot better the

0:21:05pricing has gotten better from what i've

0:21:08heard their client has gotten better and

0:21:09if you look at on the ark homepage for

0:21:11you know how well they do it mac method

0:21:13they did it i believe they're still

0:21:14doing a lot better than Backblaze for

0:21:16doing that metadata so CrashPlan seems

0:21:18like a solid choice i always hesitate to

0:21:20recommend Backblaze i mean i use it i

0:21:22like it and i haven't had a reason to

0:21:23change but CrashPlan always gets high

0:21:25rated and people seem to love it too and

0:21:27just because i haven't seen a reason to

0:21:28switch doesn't mean you should you know

0:21:30go back go exactly is just because

0:21:31that's what i use i'm using it for a

0:21:34variety of reasons that may not apply to

0:21:36you so you know check them both out oh

0:21:40and the final thing i'll follow up is

0:21:43encryption i didn't mention this all but

0:21:46almost all the backup things encrypt

0:21:48your data they'll you know they're not

0:21:49just shoving your sensitive files up on

0:21:51Amazon s3 or into their cloud things

0:21:53just in their raw and encrypted form so

0:21:54anybody could look at it and the thing

0:21:56most of them do is they try to make you

0:21:59feel like even employees of the backup

0:22:01company cannot see your data so they

0:22:03always have like there's an encryption

0:22:04key but there's a secondary private

0:22:06encryption key that only you have and if

0:22:07you do restore

0:22:08or then you have to enter that secret

0:22:10encryption key so in theory if you know

0:22:14if the CEO of the backup company wanted

0:22:15to look at your files he couldn't do it

0:22:17because he doesn't have your secret

0:22:18encryption key now in practice it kind

0:22:20of wigs me out that some of these things

0:22:21say when you do a web restore just type

0:22:23your secret encryption key into this

0:22:24field on our web server and then you

0:22:27know make I'm sure they're not saving it

0:22:30I'm sure they're being good web

0:22:31developers and it's not showing up in

0:22:33their logs but if it's gonna be a

0:22:35private encryption key I'm not gonna

0:22:37type into a web form on your website so

0:22:39it's not everything up front yeah

0:22:40regular people don't think about this

0:22:42and I'm sure these sites are doing it

0:22:44just because it's convenient and they

0:22:46want web restore is an important feature

0:22:47to have but I wouldn't put too much

0:22:49stock in it so so just assume that the

0:22:52company that you're backing up to will

0:22:53always be able to see your data despite

0:22:54you know protestations to the contrary

0:22:57but in general if a thief breaks into

0:23:00the encryption company they probably

0:23:02won't be able to see your data everybody

0:23:03does 256 bit AES encryption or something

0:23:05like that that is you know computation

0:23:08computationally unfeasible to do break

0:23:10for non-government entities but that is

0:23:14an important feature of backup things

0:23:16and I definitely would use a service

0:23:17that didn't have any kind of encryption

0:23:19and the encryption thing led to a lot of

0:23:20feet up about feedback about like what

0:23:22about file vault which is apples brain

0:23:24built-in encryption thing where will

0:23:26encrypt your home directory I don't want

0:23:29to go too far from Titanic because you

0:23:30already gonna kind of long in this but

0:23:31maybe we should talk about encryption in

0:23:34a different show yeah I actually have a

0:23:36link in the show notes maybe I'll take

0:23:38out because we don't have time to talk

0:23:39about today but a PGP makes a whole disk

0:23:41encryption product pitbull yeah do

0:23:43exactly what it says encrypt your entire

0:23:45disk and I actually have to use that at

0:23:47work it's mandatory for all the

0:23:50computers at our company because we have

0:23:51healthcare information and it's

0:23:54surprisingly none evil whereas file

0:23:56vault is surprisingly evil so that's my

0:23:58cap that's my capsule review of

0:24:00encryption for now file vault but I'm

0:24:02Paul disc encryption not as bad probably

0:24:05better than you think but all encryption

0:24:07there is some sort of trade-off well

0:24:09I'll tell you what I'll tell you what

0:24:10lets you always tell me pick a show I'm

0:24:13picking it right now I'd love to talk

0:24:15and learn what you know about that for

0:24:16next week's show so if if I can find a

0:24:19whole show where the stuff like we can

0:24:20put it in the follow-up

0:24:22why I would like to talk about that more

0:24:25because I think that you I think that is

0:24:27a whole show maybe if not part a good

0:24:29part of a show we could do because

0:24:31that's something I think about a lot and

0:24:33the last time that I used encryption at

0:24:35all it there was such a performance hit

0:24:37on the machine that I had run it on that

0:24:40I especially because which of the

0:24:42machines that you want to encrypt you

0:24:44want to encrypt laptops you want to

0:24:46encrypt the machines that are the most

0:24:48likely to be lifted so those are

0:24:51typically also the ones that don't have

0:24:53as much horsepower and this was years

0:24:55ago but man it was just it was just a

0:24:58drain on these things

0:24:59yeah encryption it that's just the

0:25:01nature of you you you nailed it exactly

0:25:03you always want to encrypt the ones with

0:25:04the slowest disk i/o performance and now

0:25:06you're hurting even more um but that's

0:25:08not Wi-Fi bolts I won't leave oh because

0:25:10of bugs all right so what's our what is

0:25:13a real topic then I saw a real topic the

0:25:15one that you picked is what did you pick

0:25:18a Mac OS 10 Lion yeah what we know about

0:25:21line where we're going as a direction

0:25:23you know you you so here's the thing I

0:25:27asked you I said well do you have any

0:25:29special insight on this can you can you

0:25:33share any secrets do you know anything

0:25:36and you said why I don't know anything

0:25:38well I have no I have no inside info no

0:25:41sources you know or telling me stuff and

0:25:44even if they did I wouldn't be sharing

0:25:46them so it's generally not my mo but

0:25:51I've seen the same things everyone else

0:25:52has seen and I'm basically just making

0:25:53educated guesses at this point I feel

0:25:55like when Apple does any sort of

0:25:58announcement or something that

0:26:00communicates something in the subtext of

0:26:02it I'm very receptive to it I get it

0:26:05right away I understand where they're

0:26:06going and it makes sense in the context

0:26:08of what their what the company is going

0:26:10to do whereas I see in a lot of them the

0:26:12non-apple specific press they get

0:26:15confused by apples PRD to take it at

0:26:17face value or they don't see the subtext

0:26:18or so give us an example I'll about what

0:26:22are you talking about and I guess for

0:26:27for Lion the example would be so they

0:26:30did that that preview thing of line to

0:26:32remember that back in October yeah sure

0:26:34deal with the new

0:26:35launcher and things like that yeah and

0:26:37that without the show was actually about

0:26:39I think was about the new version of

0:26:40High Life and a bunch of other stuff but

0:26:41like it was the back to the max show and

0:26:43in the in the middle of that show they

0:26:45had a whole thing about let's show you a

0:26:47preview of Lion and in the press the the

0:26:50mainstream press covering that like the

0:26:52New York Times or whatever they

0:26:53mentioned everything that happened they

0:26:56focused a little bit more on you know I

0:26:57life because that was kind of the front

0:26:59of the show and then when they talked

0:27:00about lion they basically just described

0:27:03what was shown and parroted back Apple's

0:27:07message about it um which was you know

0:27:12back to the Mac was their pawn on we're

0:27:14taking the innovations that we put in

0:27:15iOS and bringing those back to the Mac

0:27:17um and that was a misdirect because

0:27:20people thought back to the Mac meant

0:27:21back to Apple talking about the Mac but

0:27:23there was a double meaning the second

0:27:25meaning was Apple taking technology from

0:27:27iOS and bringing it back to the neck so

0:27:28it was a little bit of talk about you

0:27:30know in Mac OS 10 and iOS converging and

0:27:33stuff like that but it wasn't it wasn't

0:27:37covered that much but when I saw this

0:27:38show the message I got loud and clear

0:27:41was Apple was describing exactly what

0:27:45their thoughts were for the future

0:27:47desktop operating system and they were

0:27:48doing it in a typical way where they

0:27:50give you a tiny little taste and don't

0:27:51shock you and don't scare people but

0:27:53they signal their intent pretty loud and

0:27:56clear to anybody who's been following

0:27:57the company for a while so I'll get it

0:28:00with the back up thing I'll start with

0:28:01my thesis for Lion and it's in the form

0:28:05of an SAT type analogy I think I

0:28:06actually posted this to Twitter so

0:28:07anybody who follows me has already heard

0:28:09this so sorry for the repeat but I will

0:28:10expand on it here on the analogy you

0:28:13know the SAT analogies

0:28:15it's like X is 2 y is a is to bake sure

0:28:17so my analogy is iOS is two Mac OS 10 as

0:28:21the original Mac operating system is to

0:28:23ms-dos okay I can go along with that and

0:28:29I I don't I posted on Twitter and people

0:28:32either disagreed thought I was crazy or

0:28:34ignored it but I 100% after seeing that

0:28:37line preview I think this is exactly how

0:28:40Apple the company sees their operating

0:28:43systems so let me go back through and

0:28:45review the analogy so yeah

0:28:47Iowa systemic OS 10

0:28:49saying like iOS is the you know nicer

0:28:54simpler easier to use thing and Mac os10

0:28:56is the harder thing is you know as the

0:28:57original operating system Mac operating

0:28:59system is said dos and it's use extreme

0:29:00because das was this ridiculous

0:29:02command-line thing with a little green

0:29:03text on a black screen you have to know

0:29:05the commands and normal people couldn't

0:29:07use it and the original Mac operating

0:29:08system was it introduced the mouse it

0:29:11was the first commercially successful

0:29:12GUI it was just such a huge radical

0:29:14change whereas if you look at io s and

0:29:16Mac OS 10 you know that's not you might

0:29:18say that's not the an appropriate

0:29:20analogy the difference between those two

0:29:21operating systems is not as big as

0:29:23difference between Mac and das right

0:29:24they look the same they both use gooeys

0:29:26they have buttons and scroll bars and

0:29:27widgets or whatever it's not so much

0:29:30about you know the revolution in

0:29:32technology being equivalent it's how

0:29:33Apple thinks about it and when Apple

0:29:35thought about das or any command-line

0:29:37stuff they said this is not how

0:29:38computers should work there's too much

0:29:40stuff that's not important that don't

0:29:42that it gets in the way of regular

0:29:45person using this device and we're going

0:29:47to eliminate a lot of those things and

0:29:49make it so that you need to know less to

0:29:52get your work done to be successful yet

0:29:54using this product a thinking man's

0:29:57analogy yeah and and so with iOS it's

0:30:01like them saying what Mac OS 10 is great

0:30:03and everything it's it's a really good

0:30:05operating system and it's certainly much

0:30:06better than das was or a better than any

0:30:08existing gooeys but there's still too

0:30:10much stuff that you have to know about

0:30:12it's not important to your work that you

0:30:14just have to know about to use the tool

0:30:15and iOS I think was their attempt to say

0:30:20how much of that stuff can we remove and

0:30:22still leave a useful computer so let's

0:30:26take out everything that we can that

0:30:28only exists because of you know legacy

0:30:31of development over decades and just

0:30:34leave the stuff that lets you do the

0:30:36functionality that lets you get your job

0:30:39done and that's what they did with iOS

0:30:41and so that philosophy is is going to

0:30:45determine the future of Mac OS 10 that

0:30:47philosophy is going to say all right

0:30:48we've got iOS which has shown we can

0:30:51take out tons and tons of things that

0:30:53you had to know how to use the had to

0:30:54know how to do to use a Mac and still

0:30:56have a useful product in the end so now

0:30:58their job with Mac OS 10 is to

0:31:02to get rid of as many of those things

0:31:04that they've seen that you don't really

0:31:05need to get work done get rid of those

0:31:07four Mac os10

0:31:08and that's what this presentation was

0:31:10about and it just mentioned one or two

0:31:12or three little things so it didn't seem

0:31:13like that big of a deal but I truly

0:31:14believe that Apple's go with Mac OS 10

0:31:16is to eliminate all those things that

0:31:19are not important that are that are

0:31:21baggage that are noise to to getting

0:31:23your job done and so in the presentation

0:31:26that gave legs a little bullet list of

0:31:27of the features they were bringing from

0:31:30iOS to Mac OS 10 so that they're phrased

0:31:31it a different way they say we're taking

0:31:33features from iOS and bring them to Mac

0:31:34OS 10

0:31:35I think that's putting in Reverse and I

0:31:38think their real goal here is to make

0:31:41Mac OS 10 as noise-free as iOS so

0:31:45they're actually removing things that

0:31:48you needed to know about before and

0:31:49trying to make us you don't need to know

0:31:50about them now and they phrase it in

0:31:52terms of adding a feature so they listed

0:31:54multi-touch the App Store app home

0:31:56screens full screen apps autosave and

0:31:58apps that resume when launched and that

0:32:01sounds like a hodgepodge of weird iOS

0:32:03features but each one of them is like

0:32:04trying to eliminate something for Mac OS

0:32:0710 the App Store is an easy one we've

0:32:09already seen the Mac App Store we know

0:32:11what it is it came ahead of line that's

0:32:13not a part of the operating system it's

0:32:14a separate feature now of Snow Leopard

0:32:16and it's clear what that's getting rid

0:32:18of the act of downloading installing and

0:32:21updating applications is just noise like

0:32:23we saw they saw on iOS this stuff with

0:32:26the DM G's disk images are awesome

0:32:27they're certainly better than than

0:32:28expanding zip files or stuffit expander

0:32:31files or all these other ridiculous

0:32:32things so DM G's were in advance but

0:32:34it's still too much noise they don't

0:32:36people don't want to understand about

0:32:37mounting to stick images and dragging

0:32:39things off or running and install our

0:32:40sometimes and how do I you know update

0:32:43the application well spark will help

0:32:44that where you have the update from it

0:32:46within the application but that was hit

0:32:47or miss and it was a third-party thing

0:32:49so Apple said we've seen that if you

0:32:52make downloading buying downloading and

0:32:54installing and updating applications

0:32:55really easy way more people will do it

0:32:57right so let's get rid of that noise for

0:32:59Mac OS 10 so they phrase it in terms of

0:33:01adding the App Store but what they're

0:33:02trying to eliminate is all that stuff

0:33:04which they feel like it's not it's not

0:33:06important to the experience okay you're

0:33:08sick you're starting to sell me on this

0:33:09now um so I don't wanna go to much more

0:33:13than that cap store because we've heard

0:33:14all about it me that's there

0:33:15elimination multi-touch gestures that

0:33:18seems like a straight pull over but Mac

0:33:21os10 has already had multi-touch

0:33:22gestures what they're trying to get out

0:33:23there is remove visible controls and

0:33:27make it so that you know invisible

0:33:29controls so like for example there's no

0:33:31visible scroll bars in iOS and somehow

0:33:33the that you know it still works because

0:33:35you know it turns out that just touching

0:33:37a dragging is way easier than having a

0:33:39visible scroll bar and this roll thumb

0:33:41does appear to give you some feedback

0:33:42about where you are on a document but

0:33:44there's something that's traditionally

0:33:45been in Mac OS 10 because if we're

0:33:46eliminating scroll bars that's not going

0:33:48to fly right right well but what they're

0:33:50doing instead is saying all right for

0:33:52the new features that we're going to add

0:33:53are from some existing features that

0:33:55didn't have visible controls like

0:33:56initiating expose or switching

0:33:58applications or showing the desktop or

0:34:01going to dashboard or something like

0:34:03that those always had some sort of

0:34:05either key combination or you hit a

0:34:07function key or you had a screen corner

0:34:09all those things are not as friendly

0:34:11Apple feels as gestures and they feel

0:34:13like iOS has proved that to them that

0:34:15screen corners are dangerous I know have

0:34:17you ever seen anyone who's not a an

0:34:19expert computer user accidentally

0:34:21trigger screen corner thing and like all

0:34:22their windows fly off in shows that's

0:34:23great I cannot enable that feature on

0:34:25all my family's computers because they

0:34:27just accidentally triggered all the time

0:34:28and it freaks them out all right so as

0:34:30convenient as that is for people who are

0:34:32used to it it's not novice friendly

0:34:34function keys forget it they'll never

0:34:35remember that f9 is expose and f10 is

0:34:37show dashboard or even though on the

0:34:39Apple keyboard they have little pictures

0:34:40that are trying to help you like a

0:34:41little dial things or dashboard it's

0:34:44still not friendly but gestures have a

0:34:46sort of curve of the word as it for like

0:34:48kinesthetic or something like yeah when

0:34:50you when you make motions with your with

0:34:52your body you're able to remember them

0:34:53better than you know remembering words

0:34:55or positioning something or putting some

0:34:57describe pressing a string element or

0:34:59something

0:35:00I still think they'll be difficult for

0:35:02people to learn but I think iOS has

0:35:04shown that they're more likely to stick

0:35:07if someone does make the effort to try

0:35:08it two or three or four times they do

0:35:11have the problem of you're running out

0:35:14of places to rub your finger so you're

0:35:16certainly you're not going to rub them

0:35:17on the screen but they do have that that

0:35:18trackpad that you can buy for desktop

0:35:20Mac's now I have that people who are

0:35:23into that can definitely use that I'm

0:35:24afraid most people will not buy that

0:35:26they do all their mice now have a place

0:35:28for you to swipe with your fingers

0:35:29also afraid that's a little bit of an

0:35:31ergonomic problem it is I have that too

0:35:33but but it's clear that Apple wants to

0:35:36that they realize they can't completely

0:35:38eliminate on-screen controls from a Mac

0:35:41os10

0:35:41but they want any new features to always

0:35:44have this way to do it as well because I

0:35:45think it might do better than all the

0:35:46existing methods I don't know how

0:35:48successful there be until they start

0:35:50doing some sort of hybrid touchscreen

0:35:53you know Mac thing with the horizontal

0:35:55touchscreen instead of just the trackpad

0:35:57or whatever but that's the direction

0:35:59they're going is they really want that

0:36:00they like the idea of eliminating taking

0:36:03things off the screen and putting them

0:36:04into the muscle memory of the user full

0:36:07screen apps is similar in that it's not

0:36:10an addition of something it's an

0:36:11elimination like let's get rid of the

0:36:12menu bar it's get rid of the dock let's

0:36:14get rid of all these overlapping windows

0:36:15you're probably just doing one thing at

0:36:17a time especially if you're not a

0:36:18sophisticated user you just want to do

0:36:20one thing certainly iOS and the iPad

0:36:22shown that it's perfectly possible to

0:36:25have a reasonable experience doing that

0:36:26especially with the multitasking well we

0:36:28have a lot more horsepower on the

0:36:29desktop so let's try that let's

0:36:30encourage people to make full screen

0:36:33applications and they tried to add the

0:36:36trying to add features to make full

0:36:37screen applications not as annoying

0:36:39because if you're in a full screen

0:36:40application now you're like I'm stuck

0:36:42here what if I want to go over to some

0:36:44other application and do something

0:36:46briefly I can go add a full-screen mode

0:36:47right go to the other application do the

0:36:50thing I want if you come back here and

0:36:51come back into full screen mode and

0:36:53sometimes you can all tap around when

0:36:54you're in full screen mode but it's

0:36:56confusing and it's not easy to keep

0:36:57straight with all the other overlapping

0:36:58windows so they're trying to make that

0:37:01easier by adding features to let you

0:37:03send apps fullscreen and then have them

0:37:05sort of cordoned off in there and in the

0:37:09UI into a different category so you have

0:37:12your regular desktop which all your

0:37:15overlapping windows and then each full

0:37:17screen application is itself shown as a

0:37:19big tile and their little new expose

0:37:21type thing and then dashboard is another

0:37:23tile so it's like three categories of

0:37:24things dashboard the desktop with all

0:37:27your allowing Windows and then one

0:37:29little tile for every fullscreen

0:37:30application you can switch between them

0:37:31using a gesture and I would assume also

0:37:33using alt tab and they stay fullscreen

0:37:35and your shuffle between them sort of

0:37:36like you shop between iPad applications

0:37:38so they're trying to make that

0:37:41experience

0:37:43easier for developers to do they didn't

0:37:45say much about autosave and apps

0:37:47resuming when launched I'm assuming

0:37:49they'll be just either better AP is for

0:37:52developers to do that or simply just

0:37:54encouraging developers to WOD see that

0:37:56this is going to be the new status quo

0:37:57and a good Mac application should do

0:37:59this and again that's trying to

0:38:01eliminate something that's historically

0:38:03been there the file save menu save as

0:38:04all that stuff it's not going away but

0:38:08they've seen that in iOS it's possible

0:38:09to have a close to desktop type

0:38:13experience like for example on the iPad

0:38:15without bothering the user ever about

0:38:16saving you know there's no menu bar

0:38:18there's no save right and somehow

0:38:20applications

0:38:21certain classes of applications work

0:38:23it's really difficult to do because

0:38:24desktop user just used to that they're

0:38:26like well you know sometimes I don't

0:38:27want to autosave and in fact even on the

0:38:29iPad I bet people have been kind of

0:38:30screwed by autosave with like oh really

0:38:33I didn't want to do that I didn't

0:38:34realize it was going to save and I'd

0:38:36like to go back to my previous version

0:38:37you know they wanted to be explicit

0:38:39because they want to be able to

0:38:40experiment and as long as they don't say

0:38:42they haven't really ruined anything so

0:38:44there's still a tension between those

0:38:45two features but I think iOS has

0:38:47conclusively shown that the balance is

0:38:49swinging heavily in favor of autosave

0:38:50being what normal people can use

0:38:54successfully versus say I mean you know

0:38:57the people been sitting in front of a

0:38:58computer for three hours and they

0:38:59haven't saved you come in tell you

0:39:00what's right and I'm working on my novel

0:39:01have you saved yet I always ask people

0:39:04that have you saved they said no I guess

0:39:06I'll wait dumb done he's like please

0:39:07save say if every few paragraphs save

0:39:10early save often they just don't do it I

0:39:12mean I think I think I guess what what's

0:39:14in the back of people's mind when it

0:39:15comes to saving is they don't they feel

0:39:17like well what if I want to change it

0:39:18how do I get it back you know and I

0:39:21think incremental saving saving with

0:39:23revisions is something that like Google

0:39:25Docs will do for example so if you had

0:39:29that people's fear would go away

0:39:30completely and I think he'd convert

0:39:32everybody that's more of a geek feature

0:39:34I think if you just if you just change

0:39:37expectations like the generation of kids

0:39:39that grows up now with iOS just expects

0:39:41auto-saving all the time they won't sort

0:39:42of know what they're missing

0:39:43right versioning should be there just

0:39:45because for the Nerds it's there and

0:39:47like if some person is having trouble

0:39:49with their computer a tech-savvy person

0:39:51can help them say oh you may not known

0:39:52about this feature but in fact it's

0:39:54actually saving your revisions and you

0:39:55can go back

0:39:56several versions like if you show

0:39:57someone Dropbox and you just give it to

0:39:59them they use it for a while and they

0:40:00and they call you up and I lost some

0:40:02changes whatever then you can show the

0:40:04Dropbox feature of getting back previous

0:40:05revisions but up to that point they

0:40:06don't need to know the Dropbox is doing

0:40:08that for them so I don't think

0:40:09versioning or it to be an integral part

0:40:11of this necessarily needs to be in

0:40:13people's faces but I do think it should

0:40:14be added there eventually just so

0:40:17there's an escape hatch for you know

0:40:18when you do need help your data is there

0:40:21somewhere oh so let's see what else they

0:40:25had there oh and a launch pad is kind of

0:40:28part of the Mac App Store thing and that

0:40:30iOS has shown that if you shove the

0:40:34applications to people's faces they'll

0:40:36use them and remember they exist whereas

0:40:38if you buried in the Applications folder

0:40:39in Mac OS 10 you know even if you made

0:40:42application installation easy people

0:40:43forget things exist there it was not in

0:40:45their dock they don't realize it's there

0:40:46when they want to launch something

0:40:47especially if it's not in a dock they

0:40:49get a dig forward it's it's an upsetting

0:40:51experience whereas iOS your said look

0:40:53we're going to put every application you

0:40:54have in a series of screens and a big

0:40:55flat grid of icons not it not even any

0:40:57sort of nesting for you know for years

0:40:59and so now you know where all your

0:41:00applications are you know how to change

0:41:02screens with with a reasonably natural

0:41:05gesture that once you do it once you

0:41:06remember it forever ah

0:41:08and that works people buy applications

0:41:10they use them in huge numbers much

0:41:13greater numbers than people were buying

0:41:14or using Mac applications so that's what

0:41:17they're doing with Mac OS 10 is saying a

0:41:19lot we've learned that we don't need to

0:41:20have this huge drop off after the dock

0:41:22that was the problem Mac OS 10 if the

0:41:24application is not in the dock your next

0:41:26option is the finder and the conceptual

0:41:30gap between a single line of gigantic

0:41:33icons on the bottom of your screen that

0:41:34you can't hide with Windows and the

0:41:36finder which is a navigation tool for

0:41:38your entire huge harddrive structure

0:41:40there's a huge gap between those two

0:41:42things and that's why people once they

0:41:44go off the cliff of the dock they don't

0:41:46want they don't want to go to that

0:41:47finder they don't they don't want to

0:41:48navigate they're not sure they're in the

0:41:49right place they don't know where they

0:41:50are they have no conception of the

0:41:52filesystem hierarchy it's just a big

0:41:54scary place to go that's why you see

0:41:57people with tons of icons in their dock

0:41:59because they say well I always know what

0:42:01the dock is it's always on top you can't

0:42:03hide it with any other windows it

0:42:04doesn't you know have any hierarchy if

0:42:06people just drag things to there now

0:42:08they just see their icons they

0:42:10even if their little tiny icons that can

0:42:11eventually find it are you feasible John

0:42:15not really where is a doc my it depends

0:42:19on the computer on a laptop it's on the

0:42:20right side because the screens are

0:42:21smaller too and it's pinned to the

0:42:23bottom because I want to get it out of

0:42:24the way on my desktop it is actually on

0:42:26the bottom but I have a dragon when it's

0:42:30on the desktop is it pinned I keep I

0:42:32keep it centered I have two other drag

0:42:34thing Docs I don't put any folders of

0:42:36files in my dock the only reason I have

0:42:39my dock visible at all it's because the

0:42:42notification API the thing that makes

0:42:44the little thing bounce right and puts

0:42:45the little badges you know the icons

0:42:48that API is not available for third

0:42:49parties if it was the drag thing would

0:42:52incorporate it and I would never have

0:42:54the dock visible but as things stand I

0:42:56need to see where the icons bounce I

0:42:57need to see when little message appears

0:42:59on a little badge appears on my icons

0:43:01the dock is the only application that

0:43:03can do that so it has to be visible so I

0:43:05have it visible and it's on the bottom

0:43:08of my screen and that's what I use it

0:43:09for it's kind of disappointing but for

0:43:11regular users it's the simplification of

0:43:15the dock is a big big benefit and launch

0:43:19pad is trying to bridge that gap between

0:43:21the simplified dock that can hold a few

0:43:24icons that you use a lot and the scary

0:43:27world of the finder by saying as in iOS

0:43:30now when you want to launch any

0:43:31application and click on launch pad

0:43:32which will be one icon on your dock and

0:43:34we will show you all your applications

0:43:36in a gigantic grid of little icons that

0:43:38is very familiar to anyone's use iOS and

0:43:41so now there's not you know there's

0:43:43another reason people don't need to go

0:43:44to the file system anymore but you can

0:43:46have your most frequently used icons

0:43:47applications in the dock and then go to

0:43:49launch pad for everything else and they

0:43:53will literally show you all your

0:43:54applications and you'll won't have

0:43:56trouble finding things I bet you'll

0:43:57probably be able to sort it

0:43:57alphabetically or something you know

0:43:59people will be able to find stuff how

0:44:00they can't but just do like they do on

0:44:01their phones and just flick like until

0:44:03they see it and click and I think that

0:44:05will eliminate a lot of the anxiety

0:44:08about where your applications are and

0:44:11you know it eliminate the problem of

0:44:13people forgetting to even have a certain

0:44:15application by always putting them right

0:44:17in their face and this is another thing

0:44:19from iOS and was it taking away is it

0:44:21taking away the finder the finder will

0:44:22still be there

0:44:23they're just trying to make it so that

0:44:25you don't have to use it this you know

0:44:27this thing you don't have to know about

0:44:28the file system and yet one more way and

0:44:32it was kind of sad that you'd have to

0:44:34know about you can't think about the

0:44:35finder for installing applications to

0:44:37deal with the disk images and finding

0:44:38where your downloads button to and you

0:44:40have to know about the finder for

0:44:41launching the application if it didn't

0:44:43fit in your dock so I think that's what

0:44:46Apple's move is with the with that

0:44:48Launchpad thing and they also have this

0:44:50Mission Control thing which is trying to

0:44:51unify that they claim it unifies expose

0:44:54dashboard spaces and games but it's kind

0:44:57of sad that this thing that unifies

0:44:59spaces but it does it eliminate spaces

0:45:01right which never worked right anyway

0:45:02and and it had lots of bugs but the

0:45:05people who use spaces are going to be

0:45:06disappointed because space is just gone

0:45:08you know well but you know before there

0:45:10was space is John there were

0:45:11applications that you could download

0:45:13that would let you have that essentially

0:45:15that X that functionality which again

0:45:17really does come from the X Window

0:45:19System I mean it's it's something that

0:45:21the UNIX geeks have had for decades

0:45:23perhaps and those apps I think may still

0:45:28exist and I'm sure though they'll come

0:45:29back as soon as Apple takes it away

0:45:31won't they maybe but those apps didn't

0:45:34work great either no it didn't and and

0:45:36then the problem that people would have

0:45:37is different applications didn't behave

0:45:41consistently in in spaces so you might

0:45:44have one app that that works when you

0:45:46set it to be sticky in another app that

0:45:48doesn't work when you set it to be

0:45:49sticky and just the behavior just was

0:45:53never satisfactory I think for people

0:45:55who really wanted to get a lot of use

0:45:57out of this I was actually shocked that

0:45:59they added it to the operating system

0:46:01because of all the features like this is

0:46:03clearly an expert type feature like very

0:46:05few people have the discipline and

0:46:08experience to arrange their workspaces

0:46:10or multiple desktops and anything in X

0:46:12and B OS or any operating system that

0:46:14you know semi natively supported this it

0:46:16takes a lot of discipline to arrange

0:46:18separate workspaces and remember where

0:46:20everything is and to be able to move

0:46:23things between them because if you just

0:46:24turn on spaces for a regular user they

0:46:26will end it's like a cruel trick you're

0:46:28putting all their applications in a maze

0:46:30and like where was that window maybe it

0:46:33was in that other space and maybe in

0:46:34this space maybe I'll drag this window

0:46:35back up they end up with things

0:46:36scattered all

0:46:37the place all you're doing is is adding

0:46:39another layer of obfuscation but people

0:46:42who use this feature and are you know

0:46:43it's part of their workflow have a

0:46:45system basically you know of they decide

0:46:48this is all going to do it either work

0:46:49is here in play is here or you know this

0:46:51is for monitoring you know servers and

0:46:53this is for doing code or my ID window

0:46:55is here my simulator when desk space is

0:46:57here and this is for web Bret like

0:46:59everyone has a system who uses this type

0:47:01of thing but the number of people who

0:47:03have that system and who can

0:47:04successfully use spaces even who work is

0:47:06great it's probably like a fraction of a

0:47:09percent of all you know computer users

0:47:11so I was always amazed at the editors

0:47:13feature but I was not surprised that a

0:47:15was buggy and be that those bugs never

0:47:17really worked themselves out because it

0:47:19would take a tremendous amount of effort

0:47:20to make spaces bug free and to get

0:47:24application developers to code in a

0:47:26space of savvy way and this would all be

0:47:28for a fraction of a percent of users so

0:47:30there was never going to be the

0:47:32motivation with an apple and developer

0:47:34relations and application developers in

0:47:35general to ensure that spaces is a

0:47:37seamless experience just for that tiny

0:47:39percentage of users so now it's

0:47:40basically going away and being replaced

0:47:43by this this new hierarchy which is you

0:47:44know dashboard all you're overlapping

0:47:47windows and all your full screen apps in

0:47:49different categories it remains to be

0:47:52seen how it works out they have they

0:47:53have simplified it into that single

0:47:54screen I think that single screen

0:47:56arrangement does kind of make some sense

0:47:58but it's kind of weird that they do it

0:48:00with four in the demo they had four they

0:48:02do with four big tiles on top dashboard

0:48:05all your overlapping windows and they

0:48:06had two full screen apps in the demo and

0:48:08I assume if you had more full screen

0:48:10apps they would slowly fill that top

0:48:11part and then the the bottom part of the

0:48:14window is all your windows grouped by

0:48:15application not including the full

0:48:18screen one that's I believe I'm not sure

0:48:21of users will immediately grok the new

0:48:24arrangement versus the existing expose

0:48:27one where you say just show me every

0:48:28single one of my windows and a big hairy

0:48:29mess and I'll figure it out but we'll

0:48:32see that and they keep rearranging those

0:48:34screens I don't think they really hit on

0:48:35the perfect one I think what they would

0:48:37like to do is like an iOS where it's

0:48:39completely simplified and you just you

0:48:41know every application is full screen

0:48:43and you switch among them in a visually

0:48:46obvious manner with the gesture or

0:48:48changing to you know you're using

0:48:50application switcher and

0:48:51clear when you're going from one

0:48:52application to another and it's just one

0:48:54big flat list I don't think you can get

0:48:56away with that on machines that can have

0:48:58like 16 gigs of memory yeah tons of our

0:49:00robbing windows but I think they they

0:49:03consider that legacy noise and they

0:49:06would get rid of it if they coats

0:49:07they're trying to herd towards that by

0:49:10saying we're going to give full screen

0:49:11applications their own place of

0:49:12prominence as separate entities and all

0:49:14those other old applications will be

0:49:16represented by a single icon called your

0:49:18desktop on the top of the screen and

0:49:20your desktop shows your desktop you know

0:49:22not your just the finder but all of your

0:49:24topping windows in that big mess it's

0:49:25one icon that's like the legacy bin and

0:49:27then all the fullscreen ones I don't

0:49:29think this is going to fly but the demo

0:49:32was clear signal that saying now hey

0:49:34guys wouldn't it be great if that little

0:49:36legacy Ben didn't have your app in it

0:49:38and it got its own nice fullscreen icon

0:49:39on the top so they could switch to your

0:49:40application more easily that was that

0:49:44was the subtext of that demo hmm so

0:49:47that's how I think seeing that demo they

0:49:49didn't demonstrate much technology wise

0:49:52they didn't talk about underpinnings I

0:49:53think it was all about them expressing

0:49:57how much they love iOS as compared to

0:50:01Mac OS 10 and how much they view Mac OS

0:50:0310 now is the DOS like the unfriendly

0:50:06you need to know too much stuff computer

0:50:09experts required to operate it not for

0:50:11normal people operating system and

0:50:13they're going to try to make Mac OS 10

0:50:15and not like that anymore they're going

0:50:17to try to bring it out of its role as

0:50:19the dose of the the Apple world and make

0:50:22it more like iOS which is their

0:50:24beautiful new operating system that

0:50:26regular people can use so John do you

0:50:27think that this is something that is

0:50:29certainly a movement that they're going

0:50:32and they're saying this is this is the

0:50:33new direction and in that sense then if

0:50:36that's if that's true is lying then a

0:50:40transitional operating system and that

0:50:44whatever comes after lion becomes even

0:50:47even further down the iOS path I think

0:50:50at least half the things that trying to

0:50:52do in Lion

0:50:522 to make Mac OS 10 less difficult to

0:50:57use and to eliminate those legacy things

0:50:59I think at least half of them are going

0:51:00to fail or not come off the way they

0:51:02wanted to yeah just because it's it's a

0:51:04tough

0:51:05thing to do like for example when Apple

0:51:08made the original Mac operating system

0:51:10they didn't start with the Apple 2

0:51:11operating system and try to file off the

0:51:12sharp edges and write okay well it's

0:51:14like Apple 2 but you don't need to know

0:51:15like the commands to load things from

0:51:18floppy disks will will have like a

0:51:19button you can press but no they just

0:51:21they start over scratch and it's always

0:51:22much easier to do that and with iOS not

0:51:25technologically in terms of the

0:51:26underpinnings but with the UI they start

0:51:28from scratch and say let's take the

0:51:29finder put it on this phone okay now

0:51:31let's just figure out how to make it

0:51:33nice maybe we'll use like launcher over

0:51:35button view or something in the finder

0:51:36and then we'll have a mode with the

0:51:38scroll bars don't you know they just

0:51:39started clean slate springboard is just

0:51:42a grid of icons it has no relation to

0:51:43anything you've ever seen on the Mac you

0:51:46know all the apps are fullscreen there's

0:51:47no windows anywhere it's so much easier

0:51:49to do that so now they're faced with the

0:51:52task of taking an existing thing and

0:51:54trying to file off the sharp edges and

0:51:56it's really really Arden it's a long

0:51:58long long road and some some things you

0:51:59can't file off because you know

0:52:02otherwise why have Mac's at all

0:52:03obviously iOS devices are not sufficient

0:52:06for all of our needs because a certain

0:52:08point you need multiple windows you need

0:52:09to be looking at more than one thing at

0:52:11once you need these persnickety level

0:52:13controls to do certain types of tasks

0:52:15and the mouse is not a finger and it has

0:52:18disadvantages versus a finger but

0:52:20especially for extra users as advantages

0:52:22so they can't file everything off and I

0:52:24think a lot of their failures are going

0:52:26to come from attempting to go a bridge

0:52:29too far with one particular aspect of

0:52:32the system so for example full screen

0:52:33apps I don't think they're going to get

0:52:35the buy-in from developers that they

0:52:38would really want out of that or if they

0:52:41do I think they'll see some resistance

0:52:43to users because if it's not completely

0:52:45consistent like it is an iOS if

0:52:47everything isn't full screen then you've

0:52:49got this weird hybrid and people find it

0:52:50off-putting or I think you're going to

0:52:51find it off-putting where you're you can

0:52:54switch among applications without

0:52:55getting at a full screen mode but some

0:52:56of the apps in full-screen mode and some

0:52:58of them are not and you get you're going

0:52:59to get into the situation where you're

0:53:01like well I liked it better this UI is

0:53:02nice but I'd like to be able to also

0:53:03peek at this other thing over here or

0:53:05dragged from you know iPhoto into this

0:53:08other application but when I thought was

0:53:09fullscreen I can't drag for it but I

0:53:10used to be able to when I didn't have it

0:53:12in full screen mode so let me get iPhoto

0:53:13add a full-screen mode let me you know

0:53:15it's it's a tough hybrid and I think

0:53:19that's going to be a hard sell and I'm

0:53:22not sure what the with the eventual

0:53:23result will be some of them are no

0:53:25brainer wins though like getting ranked

0:53:26getting rid of application installation

0:53:28woes yeah that that's that's just yeah

0:53:31you were John you were telling me that

0:53:33you actually think that that's that's

0:53:34going to improve even further in line

0:53:37than the way that it is right now with

0:53:38the App Store in 10.6 ten F I'm hope

0:53:42like what I was really hoping for with

0:53:44the Mac App Store was was you know an

0:53:46uninstall you know like I'm on iOS hold

0:53:48your finger down on the button and hit

0:53:49the close box and then the application

0:53:52is uninstalled and they just didn't do

0:53:54uninstall they just didn't do a period

0:53:55and rack App Store as it exists in Snow

0:53:57Leopard and that was a big

0:53:58disappointment because people used to

0:54:00that from iOS I'm tired of this game

0:54:02hold down the button hit the thing it's

0:54:05deleted or maybe they can delete it from

0:54:06iTunes but the point is it's easy enough

0:54:07for a regular person to do regular

0:54:09people get bored of an application and

0:54:11they delete it and they have no problem

0:54:12with it on the Mac they're either afraid

0:54:14to they don't know how to maybe they

0:54:15drag it to the trash maybe they try to

0:54:17grab the icon from the dock and drag it

0:54:19to the trash we've seen people do that

0:54:20yeah and you might argue well that

0:54:22should work and why doesn't it but then

0:54:24you say well should that really work

0:54:25maybe it shouldn't work or you know but

0:54:28you've got this application this one

0:54:30central place to do this stuff the Mac

0:54:31App Store if it had an uninstall option

0:54:33a screen that showed all your installed

0:54:35applications had a big button that said

0:54:37on install this application surely Apple

0:54:38can pull that off because they're

0:54:39controlling the installation 100% they

0:54:42can in theory track wherever they put

0:54:44every single file and remove them you

0:54:46know that it's up to that they control

0:54:47the horizontal and the vertical here so

0:54:49well it's funny because if you thought

0:54:51well if you think about the way that you

0:54:53that you install and delete apps on iOS

0:54:55like you mentioned you know there's one

0:54:58way to install them and there's one

0:55:00simple way to delete them and that my

0:55:03three-year-old son by the way knows how

0:55:04to delete apps thank you um and I say

0:55:09that because maybe they made it too easy

0:55:10I don't always want him to delete apps

0:55:12but he can and it's simple enough to to

0:55:16but you know my masters educated college

0:55:21professor mom doesn't always know how to

0:55:23delete apps from Mac os10

0:55:26and it's it's fascinating to me the

0:55:29difference there and that it's so easy

0:55:31that literally a child can do it on iOS

0:55:34and that somebody who's computer savvy

0:55:37and has many years of computer

0:55:38experience might not always know how

0:55:41they're supposed to delete something

0:55:43it's just it's fascinating and what what

0:55:46I think at the same time is that I I

0:55:48don't know if I would like it if Apple

0:55:51were to lock you know on iOS where where

0:55:53are my applications stored well I don't

0:55:55know they're just right here on the

0:55:57screen and I tap it and it launches the

0:55:59app right but where do those files exist

0:56:01where is the app exists well I don't

0:56:02know well if you told me that I wouldn't

0:56:04know and be able to know on on a regular

0:56:07computer I would be like you're crazy I

0:56:08have to know I have to know where it is

0:56:10you know I have to know that it's in the

0:56:12Applications folder which is the root

0:56:14you know I like I would have to know

0:56:16that or I can I can make an Applications

0:56:18folder within my user directory and

0:56:20it'll be a magic application folder and

0:56:22I can launch things from there and put

0:56:24that into the dock because I want it in

0:56:25the dock and then I can decide whether

0:56:27it's displayed as a folder all of these

0:56:29things are things that geeks like to do

0:56:32it almost seems though like the people

0:56:35who like doing things like that on a

0:56:37computer would be very disappointed with

0:56:39something that was dumbed down if you

0:56:41will and and the flip side of that is

0:56:44the people who are coming up now who are

0:56:46content with an iPad as perhaps their

0:56:49main portable computer might like that

0:56:51kind of thing on on the Mac if you will

0:56:55I think that's a it's usually a false

0:56:58choice especially on a desktop the best

0:57:01user-friendly features are built on on a

0:57:04foundation of a series of layers each of

0:57:08which is comprehensible at that level so

0:57:10what you want to do to build like a

0:57:12really easy you know like a Mac App

0:57:14Store thing we just click a button to

0:57:15install and uninstall you wouldn't build

0:57:17that as a monolith you wouldn't build it

0:57:18as a big applications those fancy stuff

0:57:19that you don't know about and there's

0:57:21one interface to it you build it on a

0:57:23stack of other technology so at the very

0:57:24bottom you'd have the operating system

0:57:26then the file system then a package

0:57:28management system then you know a nice

0:57:30GUI for that looks at the file system

0:57:32then a nice GUI for the package

0:57:33management system and then maybe the

0:57:34command-line interfaces to both of those

0:57:35things and there'd be a single shared

0:57:36library that they both use and on the

0:57:38very tippy top of this nice stack of

0:57:40things each

0:57:40which has a public interface you can use

0:57:42if you're interested in it that's where

0:57:43you put the icing of here's the rice

0:57:45nice easy UI that everyone will use but

0:57:47for the people who want to go beyond

0:57:49that you don't want them to peek under

0:57:50the covers and just see a big jumble of

0:57:51wires you want them to see a nice series

0:57:53of modules and Mac os10 mostly does that

0:57:56if they had a decent package management

0:57:58system that was native instead of the

0:58:00current installer that can't even

0:58:01uninstall that would be accessible and

0:58:03you can imagine them making a GUI tool

0:58:05and utilities that just interface with

0:58:07that system and of course there's the

0:58:09finder and then is the command line like

0:58:10there's a stack of comprehensible

0:58:12technologies underneath there and unlike

0:58:14on iOS where they hide all that stuff

0:58:15because of the ridiculous you know

0:58:16jailbreaking Apple control freak thing

0:58:20where they just don't want anyone

0:58:21messing with it that's not going to fly

0:58:23on the general-purpose computer you just

0:58:25have to give that kind of control to

0:58:26certain classes of people and even who

0:58:29is like iOS and lock down by default you

0:58:31know this the settings and defaults and

0:58:34interface you provide to people doesn't

0:58:36define the destiny of that product just

0:58:38defines what most people will use it for

0:58:39as long as everything else is still

0:58:41under there under the covers and

0:58:42unlockable in a none you know you're

0:58:45going against the Apple way illegal DRM

0:58:47cracking jailbreaking ridiculous stuff

0:58:49as long as it's available simply by you

0:58:53knowing what to click and and hauling

0:58:56your way down I think that's perfectly

0:58:57acceptable and I think that's actually

0:58:58desirable and Mac OS 10 does that to an

0:59:00amazing degree which is why we all love

0:59:02it so much is that it's got because

0:59:04everybody even if you're an expert

0:59:05sometimes you just want to use the nice

0:59:06GUI sometimes you don't want to fiddle

0:59:09with things sure and compile everything

0:59:10from source or whatever so we love that

0:59:12this is a nice GUI there but we love

0:59:14that also we can peel away that layer

0:59:15and there's something a little bit

0:59:16closer we can go we can set up using the

0:59:17dock we can do the finder and then we

0:59:19can go a little bit closer we can use

0:59:20the terminal and you want to go closer

0:59:21to that start writing C programs against

0:59:23the BSD API it's like it's all there for

0:59:25you to view to use at whatever level you

0:59:27feel comfortable with all Apple is doing

0:59:29as far as I can tell so right now is

0:59:31trying to build up the layers make them

0:59:36as robust as possible and start putting

0:59:37and keep putting better and better icing

0:59:39on the top so that people don't have to

0:59:41know about this stuff I don't think

0:59:43there's any any signaling from anywhere

0:59:46inside Apple or out or any demo they've

0:59:48done that says that on the desktop that

0:59:50they want to take away those layers if

0:59:51anything they revel in those layers like

0:59:53WOD C sessions

0:59:54they have sessions on every possible

0:59:56layer of that of the technology stack

0:59:58and you just go to whatever session is

0:59:59appropriate

0:59:59appropriate

1:00:00you are not trying to hide it from you

1:00:01they're not doing like what they do in

1:00:02iOS I'm just saying you can't use the

1:00:04level API you can only use the cocoa API

1:00:06is everything else you know just stay

1:00:08away from it they're they're saying look

1:00:11make the application you need to make

1:00:12here is this huge stack of technologies

1:00:14we have or whatever layer is appropriate

1:00:15to you make your app of that layer and

1:00:17to users they seem to be saying the same

1:00:19thing so here we are an hour later yeah

1:00:25well this is about the time on

1:00:26microphone usually goes bad too I got a

1:00:30one hour lifetime on this microphone

1:00:32that starts to fuzz out but so far so

1:00:34good

1:00:34so what do you what do you think John I

1:00:35mean what what does this mean then for

1:00:37for those of us who are here it just

1:00:39sounds like it sounds like you're

1:00:40painting a pretty positive picture so

1:00:44everything I've seen so far is has made

1:00:48me optimistic now granted that the ship

1:00:50date they say for Lian is summer 2011

1:00:52and we haven't seen anything about it

1:00:54since that demo that bothers me a little

1:00:56bit just because I don't know what else

1:00:59they have in store what if they're

1:01:00waiting to announce them at Macworld

1:01:02today oh I don't I really doubt that I

1:01:05would expect like dev builds right you

1:01:07know developer release one of lion that

1:01:10doesn't even have half the features they

1:01:12demoed in that preview but it's just for

1:01:14people to get their applications ready

1:01:15like I would like to know what they're

1:01:16doing under the covers the internals

1:01:18that's a whole other topic we might say

1:01:20for a different show but I really don't

1:01:25know any more than they've shown and

1:01:26what they've shown has has signaled to

1:01:28me their sort of their vision their

1:01:30mission statement for the desktop

1:01:31operating system it doesn't tell me is

1:01:33all the little steps they're going to do

1:01:35to get there and where they're going to

1:01:36go wrong and where they're going to have

1:01:37blind eyes and how many different

1:01:38versions of the operating system it's

1:01:39going to take them to get there that is

1:01:42still uncertain but I think with Apple

1:01:44it's important to know where they think

1:01:46they want to go because then you can see

1:01:48all their other actions in that context

1:01:50and you can see why are they doing this

1:01:52thing or you know and how are they going

1:01:55to judge their own success for the

1:01:56particular feature what are they going

1:01:57to consider this teacher turned out well

1:01:59let's do more of that or let's do less

1:02:01of you know this other thing I think

1:02:03understanding their vision the vision

1:02:05they've articulated so far is important

1:02:07that it also would help you understand

1:02:08for example why

1:02:10why for example iPhoto in the new

1:02:12version of my life is so horrible yeah I

1:02:15think it's bad because they were trying

1:02:18to get closer to the iOS ideal and they

1:02:22were failing in a whole bunch of

1:02:23interesting ways so they they took away

1:02:25features that they thought were just

1:02:28noise with the people actually needed

1:02:29they tried to make it friendlier and

1:02:31more iOS like with attractive graphics

1:02:33and stuff but ended up making

1:02:36functionality people use be farther away

1:02:38in terms of number of clicks it just

1:02:41made the experience worse for people who

1:02:43were experts at using that particular

1:02:45application and they also made it slower

1:02:47and a little bit more bloated and any

1:02:49time you make a program slower with

1:02:50subsequent revisions people get angry

1:02:52this is the danger of trying to make

1:02:56things more iOS like if you go from zero

1:02:57to iOS people like it if you go from

1:02:59nago is 10 to iOS people complained wow

1:03:02that's a great that's a great quote and

1:03:05that's that's your variable today that's

1:03:08going to be their problem the problem is

1:03:10going to be that in their eyes they made

1:03:12a better application but people now know

1:03:15what they're missing people have been

1:03:17using a particular feature for a long

1:03:18time when it goes away they're upset now

1:03:21I don't know if you're gonna say like

1:03:23they made Iowa they made iPhoto 11 worse

1:03:26in ways that have to do with performance

1:03:28and stuff like that is unarguably and so

1:03:29when you make the program slower it's

1:03:30just worse period no argument about that

1:03:32but you can have a reasonable argument

1:03:34about the new iPhoto actually being

1:03:37better because it removes those features

1:03:38that people are angry about missing you

1:03:40say well you may be angry about it

1:03:42because you used to do it a certain way

1:03:43but people who never use this program

1:03:46before will like the new version better

1:03:48because we've eliminated choices and

1:03:49it's not as confusing to them that's the

1:03:53the struggle they're going to have to go

1:03:55through they can either wait for all the

1:03:56people who are used to those features to

1:03:57die and then worry about it bring up the

1:04:01next generation right they can just

1:04:03figure out how to strike the correct

1:04:04balance like that's they have to figure

1:04:06out the right balance between hiding

1:04:09features that were noise and making

1:04:11features that people use easier to use

1:04:13when you combine it with adding bugs and

1:04:17going slower you're never going to make

1:04:19friends so iPhoto was kind of the

1:04:21perfect storm of a bad job

1:04:24trying to do this but I think they'll

1:04:25learn from this I think they'll learn

1:04:26from it in a similar way that they

1:04:27learned from what was that I move eh the

1:04:30one that followed iMovie HD iMovie seven

1:04:32or eight yeah when they had to basically

1:04:34they dumbed it down and started over

1:04:36yeah and they ship the old version with

1:04:38it yes so people wouldn't complain it

1:04:40said luck we know we took out tons of

1:04:43stuff you can still use the old version

1:04:45it works fine here we're going to give

1:04:46it to you on the disk that's that's a

1:04:48pretty big sign of you know failure

1:04:50where they're saying we can't just ship

1:04:51this the way it is we have to give them

1:04:52the old version too otherwise they'll

1:04:53complain the the chat room said that was

1:04:56iMovie a twit yeah I love I would mind

1:04:58if they did that with iPhoto this time

1:05:00around I have stopped using it

1:05:01completely yeah I I would be angry

1:05:04because I'm still using iPhoto for that

1:05:05but I by the time I movie 9 came around

1:05:10they they add a lot of stuff back they

1:05:14didn't include the old version anymore

1:05:15the old version was still more capable

1:05:16in a lot of ways but iMovie 9 is a

1:05:19better balance so if they had come up

1:05:20with iMovie 9 originally instead of 8

1:05:22you could say okay now that would have

1:05:24been a better compromise so they learned

1:05:26from from their mistakes and they made

1:05:28it better so I really hope that iPhoto

1:05:30twelve strikes a better balance between

1:05:33simplifying the application and making

1:05:35it easier to use and still making it a

1:05:38better program faster more capable fewer

1:05:41bugs and keeping the features that

1:05:43people had come to rely on move should

1:05:48end right there sure only only eight

1:05:51minutes over today yeah not bad you get

1:05:53to go back to work we're pulling you

1:05:54away from your your real job but we want

1:05:56to thank sound studio 4d every you sound

1:05:59studio to do your record because you do

1:06:01a double ender on that incomparable

1:06:02podcast so if you want more we should

1:06:04mention that if you want more of of John

1:06:06you don't talk about Mac stuff really

1:06:09over there much debt that's the anti

1:06:12Mac's show because it's a bunch of Mac

1:06:13guys Jason Snell sort of runs the show

1:06:16and he's the editor of Mac world and

1:06:20it's a bunch of other Mac world guys and

1:06:21me but we do not talk about Mac's top

1:06:23sometimes a refreshing change yeah

1:06:27so you can go listen to that and that's

1:06:30called the incomparable podcast or the

1:06:33incomparable depending on how you want

1:06:35to pronounce it how do you like how

1:06:36should I say I think the word in English

1:06:38is

1:06:38in comparable okay I don't know they me

1:06:41every time I pronunciation of a word I

1:06:43look it up in the dictionary and both

1:06:45pronunciations are there so that's I

1:06:46know it I mean I don't I don't know that

1:06:48English is the second language for me

1:06:50yeah you know I say Ethernet staff Turin

1:06:54instead of Ethernet so you do not say a

1:06:56thorough net I've been known to say

1:06:58anther net you couldn't even say it now

1:07:00you you said the other way I do I've

1:07:01been reprogramming myself variable

1:07:03substitution well you should well how

1:07:05does a whole show about gift versus Jeff

1:07:07later okay oh they are you gonna add

1:07:09that well anyway we want to see thanks

1:07:11to sound studio for go away you can find

1:07:14them at in the Mac App Store that's the

1:07:17place to buy and see that's a whole

1:07:18other conversation is how do you know

1:07:20where to buy it if you don't have if you

1:07:21don't have software right now and now

1:07:23feels like a really dangerous time for

1:07:25me to register by software because you

1:07:28don't know if you buy it this week if

1:07:29next week it's going to be out in a dab

1:07:31storm you're gonna have to rebuy it but

1:07:33you don't have to worry about that with

1:07:34sound studio because it's already in the

1:07:36App Store so buy it there sound studio

1:07:38and thanks to MailChimp com4 for

1:07:42sponsoring right yep no complaints for

1:07:46me I believe I do have sound studio I

1:07:49think I got it as one of those bundles I

1:07:50haven't bought a couple of those bundles

1:07:51in years past its the mall the icon

1:07:54looks like kind of a Ripley sand thing

1:07:55in a circle yeah and your eye your eye

1:07:57is getting weird but I won't we'll leave

1:07:59it we won't even edit it out but yeah

1:08:01it's it's it's got well the new the new

1:08:03logo is quite quite fresh it's quite

1:08:06quite nice it's a microphone with with

1:08:11green sort of flying out it's very cool

1:08:13then but you get to go to them you just

1:08:15need to go to the App Store get the new

1:08:16one all right well anyway we'll be back

1:08:20next week noon Friday Eastern and you

1:08:23can check out 5x5 TV to hear the other

1:08:26episodes that we've done here you can

1:08:28hear some of the other shows that we do

1:08:29as well and John I want to tell you you

1:08:33don't need to buy them you get them for

1:08:34free but the the five by five t-shirt

1:08:37store just opened up today there's no

1:08:41shirt for my show though why would I

1:08:43want someone else's show I want to send

1:08:44you the one of me with my other big head

1:08:46on it yeah they picked and just a 5 by 5

1:08:49shirt

1:08:51I think would be good but we will do

1:08:52more what I can I tell you my idea of

1:08:54what I want now not going time I'd

1:08:55accept people then they won't buy the

1:08:57ones they have on now Apple would never

1:08:58do that so I won't either right yeah the

1:09:01current lineup of shirts is the best

1:09:02line of insurance 5x5 has ever had

1:09:05that's true so that's how yeah that's

1:09:09the dude say so we'll we'll see y'all

1:09:11next week thanks and have a good one

1:09:19you