The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► we probably should record it last week [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► but I had stuff so and so here we are [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► one week later after you and I saw each [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► other in cupertino for a mysterious I [TS]

00:00:09 ◼   ► think it was billed to me as a Mac round [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► table how was it built to you in advance [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► of our meeting last week yeah but the [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► feature the mac or whatever yeah so I [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► went into it with a 50 50 50 in my head [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► whether this was going to be that's all [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► I knew was going to be about the mac i [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► was going to be a roundtable discussion [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► with a couple of executives and a [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► handful of members of the media um and i [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► went into it thinking well this has got [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► to be about the mac pro because it's [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► it's not an event it's certain of the [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► opposite of events very small run its [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► end the matter how can they have [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► something about the mac and not address [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► the elephant in a room that was the [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► thousand and some day old mac pro so I [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► went into it thinking fifty-fifty this [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► is either going to be good news about [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► the mac pro or bad news about the mac [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► pro like it right we're done with the [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► mac pro or we're not done with the mac [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► pro but we can't show it yet and here's [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► why well what were you thinking yeah you [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► probably you're smarter than me I don't [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► know I didn't I didn't really connect it [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► directly to the mac pro although in you [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► know in hindsight it seems fairly [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► reasonable to do that I mean I guess I [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► did a little bit you know obviously the [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► mac pro is sort of the elephant in the [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► room and a lot of ways for Apple and the [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► mac in the sweep of the mac universe but [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► i think it's definitely it was [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► definitely an opportunity to say um you [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► know hey here's some things were [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► thinking about about the mac but i mean [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► at all as you probably picked up on it [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► was very odd because you know very [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► rarely as a brain knows does Apple [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► actually say hey we're going to talk [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► about future things you know so that [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► aspect of it was confusing to me and my [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► only my only inkling about that was like [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► oh they need to set something up you [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► know right uh well my thinking was that [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► could be that that would that would be [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► very similar to how they would announce [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► the end of life of the mac pro if that [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► had been their decision that they're not [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► going to hold an product announcement [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► event for a product its end of life [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► right and I feel like even if the answer [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► was let's just make pro quality imax [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► when they unveil them on stage they're [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► not going to want to sully that on stage [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► by saying oh and remember the mac pro [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► that's we don't need that anymore right [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► that that they would want to break it in [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► a non keynote type scenario whether it's [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► you know somebody in particular gets an [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► exclusive or a handful of people getting [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► exclusive and get a chance to ask [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► questions about it I think it would have [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► been very similar if that had been their [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► decision and and I think that you know [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► obviously the reason why they did you [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► know that wasn't the news the news in [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► fact is that they are hard at work on an [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► all new mac pro but because they're so [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► far away from shipping it which we we [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► can get into next that they felt like [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► they had to say something they had to [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► they could not just wait and they wanted [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► to I think combined with the fact that [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► they wanted to release speed bumps or [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► price drops whatever you want to call [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► what it is they've done with the current [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► mac pro last week where they at the same [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► price levels they've they've gone from [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► you know the entry level is no longer [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► for core at six core and the mid-level [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► one is no longer six core it's eight [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► core or something like that if that's [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► all they did is just update the store [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► and not say anything about the future [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► all right people would have lost their [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► lost their damn minds rightly so people [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► would have lost their minds rightly so [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► because it wouldn't have made any sense [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► that at that Apple was pretending that [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► this was normal right it's one of the [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► scenarios where context free you know [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► update would have caused many many more [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► problems than it you know solved I guess [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► is the word right yeah and I I think [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► that that's unusual an unusual position [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► for them to be in to feel [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► strongly enough about you know the [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► future of a particular category for them [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► to set it up or tee it up in that way [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► because a lot of times they just sort of [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► take their lumps yeah you know they'll [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► just they'll just do it and people will [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► misconstrue it or whatever and then [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► they'll come out with the thing that [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► they would they were teeing up and then [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► either people will like it at they won't [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► you know but in this case I guess they [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► felt strongly enough about how long it [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► had been or how you know how much [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► culpability they felt I guess you know [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► in how the thing played out that they [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► felt that they needed to contextualize [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► it I feel like a week later I feel like [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► it there is no simple answer I feel like [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► part of it in terms of you know I think [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► you you and you asked the question and [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► you preface it with I don't want to get [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► too personal but the gist of the [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► question was when the hell's always [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► means that somebody's about to get [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► personal right when did you guys realize [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► you've done fucked up I mean that's not [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► what you said but we so that for [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► everybody doesn't have it in top of our [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► minds it was it was nine of us at the [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► table it was it was representing Apple [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► was Phil Schiller Craig federighi [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► talking software and John turness ter [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► and us who was a vice president of [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► hardware and and as it was described to [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► us at the beginning of the meeting on [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► his plate our iPad pro and Mac Pro and [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► maybe macbook pro I forget what they [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► said they did but but I know iPad pro [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► and a couple of others and I think [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► honestly it was you know had very good [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► things to say at the round table but I [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► just talking to a couple of other people [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► that Apple in the last week after this [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► came out it sounds to me like he's [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► turness is a real up-and-comer at the [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► company like I don't think it's the last [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► time that we are going to hear from him [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► in a some sort of you know publicity [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► facing right of event it seems to me [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► like he's a real up-and-comer and the [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► fact that he's been tasked with all [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► right you're right going to run point on [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► Hardware on this new mac pro [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► is a sign of that and I think a good [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► sign I think people people who are [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► hoping that this Mac Pro is everything [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► Mac Pro users have been hoping for I [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► think the fact that John turness is in [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► charge of it is a very good sign and [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► then on the press side it was me and you [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► you know Nina freed who was recently a [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► recode but is now at a new site called [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► axios for those of you who don't follow [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► the comings and goings of the press very [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► closely John Pat's Kowski also recently [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► have recode but now at BuzzFeed and last [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► but not least lance ulanoff who was [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► there from mashable so former recode [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► writers were well represented nobody [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► from recode was there at the moment it [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► was a large category percentage wise yes [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► the it of these before he present 40 [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► resented the press attendees were [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► formerly of recode and then last but not [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► least or maybe possibly least was was [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► Bill Evans from Apple PR was at the [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► table but it's his Apple pr's wanti was [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► more or less there to play defense and [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► and pretty much just run the clock and [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► didn't ready mmm so I I I thought that [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► the we all tried to ask I i would say [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► everybody except patch kowski who only [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► popped piped in at the end with a very [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► well time question about the mac mini [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► everybody tried to ask a when did you [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► guys figure out that you had a real [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► problem on your hands with the design of [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► the 2013 trashcan mac and be when did [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► you guys start on this project of a new [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► mac you know rethought from the ground [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► up mac pro em and apple does not like to [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► talk about timelines I mean that's I [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► mean they don't like to talk about [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► future stuff they don't like to talk [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► about all sorts of things but they do [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► not like to talk about when in the past [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► they made decisions and how long things [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► took it is more than almost more than [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► anything else they don't like to like [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► once a design of an erotic comes out [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► they will talk of you know Johnny I've [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► will talk at length openly and honestly [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► and in his little [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► narrated videos about why something is [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► the way it is um they won't tell you in [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► advance but once it's out they'll say [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► here's why we have these gently sloped [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► corners here or or whatever but in terms [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► of how long they've been working on [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► blank they just it is that's like the [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► holiest of Holies the secret of Secrets [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► and they you know I think they view that [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► as their as as part of their IP almost [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► because part of their process and so [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► they view that those timelines and the [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► how long it takes things to get things [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► right or you know what abortive attempts [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► they had at a particular thing or [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► whatever before they settled on the [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► right path they view that all is like a [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► protected category of information that's [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► about their process that's part of their [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► secret their special sauce right um and [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► so but there were little dribs and drabs [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► that you going over it especially after [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► the you know writing my piece all night [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► long and then and then reading everybody [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► else is the next day and then Gavin a [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► day to sort of breathe and then rethink [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► it all and look at the transcript again [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► um I think that the most telling remark [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► was federighi saying that they had [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► painted themselves into a thermal corner [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► and and and combined with his saying [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► that they went through like the state's [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► you know is it said in a jovial fashion [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► and to get a laugh that they went [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► through the stages of grief or something [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► like that right on which to me reading [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► between the lines says that they did try [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► to update the mac pro at least several [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► times in in between 2013 and the point [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► where they said okay we got to give up [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► on this and it seemed like by ant you [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► know by trying to answer customers [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► requests for what they wanted from a [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► newer mac pro it was mostly about more [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► powerful GPUs but more powerful GPUs [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► threw off the thermal balance of the mac [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► pro as we know it mm-hmm and that there [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► were you know and so I who knows I'm [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► guessing at least at least two years was [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► spent on [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► some degree trying to update and get [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► more powerful GPUs into that that [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► configuration and at some point they [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► gave up mm-hmm what do you what was your [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► take on that yeah i mean i mean that's [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► two different questions right the [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► timeline is one question you know how [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► how long do you think it took them and [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► then the other question is did they [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► actually make attempts at it or did they [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► go hey you know we really there's [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► nothing really we can do here because [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► they just knew from all of the from the [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► building of the thing in the first place [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► they built it specifically to take [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► advantage of this split or balanced GPU [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► scenario and you know shoving one hot [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► GPU and it was never going to work I [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► don't know you know I don't know how [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► much modeling or prototyping or theory [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► you know work they did on saying what if [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► we jammed in nvidia 1080 yet you know I [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► in here TI in here and and said can we [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► get this to run in here you know in this [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► shell with proper thermal properties or [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► whatever I don't know how far along that [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► road they went or did they just say well [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► this is not the purpose we built it for [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► it all so can we get two GPUs in here [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► that will work together in such a way to [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► where it would provide a significant [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► value to our customers and then they get [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► they said no you know all we can do is [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► give it a bump so that people on this [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► current gen can just roll with it until [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► we get out what's due um I don't know [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► you know I think it's it's hard it's [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► harder for me to say that they went in [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► and built whole new units in this case [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► then if they were working on a new [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► product which they wouldn't undoubtedly [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► do you know they'll build fully full [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► till all produced you know devices if [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► they feel that they need to to figure [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► out whether it works or not when they're [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► creating a new product on something like [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► this I guess maybe I guess maybe they [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► did they would you know I have no [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► information I'm just trying to like [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► divine from what I know about the [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► process that they go through but it [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► seems like it seems like it's [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► possibility one thing we don't have to [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► speculate on I mean this is just a fact [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► it's obvious just by studying the device [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► and it's also obvious just [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► listening to the way Apple described it [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► in 2013 when it when it was announced is [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► that the trashcan mac pro from 2013 was [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► a bet on multi-threaded GPUs as the [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► future of GPU power and and they had a [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► software a story to tell about it I [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► think you know without getting too [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► complicated i think it was mostly sort [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► of an open CL type thing but in the mean [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► time in years since apple has sort of [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► stepped away from open CL and i think [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► the bigger story isn't even really [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► Apple's own decisions on software but [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► more just where did the industry go and [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► in the pro market it's not so dependent [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► on or defined by Apple in terms of how [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► should you make software for the mac pro [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► but more this is how industry standard [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► powerful GPU hogging apps are written [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► you know things like video editing and [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► 3d which a lot of it is cross-platform [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► probably most of it is cross-platform [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► and it's the way that that's gone in the [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► four years since we first saw this mac [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► pro it's gotten ever more dependent on [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► super powerful single GPUs which is that [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► the opposite of where the mac pro and i [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► think in theory in theory the mac pro [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► could have been the future of pro [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► computing the sort of throwing lots of [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► GPU cores and having software written to [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► take advantage of that but that's just [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► not where the industry went and with the [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► software that is ever more dependent on [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► just single threaded GPU performance the [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► mac pro's just did it just wasn't apt at [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► all you know what i keep going back to [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► is this so I you know I grew up building [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► computers i guess a lot of lot of folks [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► who are probably listen to this did you [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► know or group at least very interested [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► in how they were put together and i am [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► feeling I you know my first computer is [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► like an Amiga that I pieced together out [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► of you know rendo parts [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► from a friend's stores of garbage cause [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► his dad worked for a pacific bell and [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► then so on and so forth spiraled [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► outwards from there to pcs and you know [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► x86 machines and you know on on through [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► the windows trainer das train and then [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► windows train and all that simply [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► because I it was the thing that I could [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► afford and I could put together myself [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► somewhere long lane along the line there [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► I developed like this parallel track [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► with starting with the performer line [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► and going you know up through there [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► where I always had a Mac in the house as [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► well and then my mom would use it i [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► would use it for graphic design and like [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► eventually photoshop stuff once they [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► became more powerful and and you know [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► variety of other things but i always had [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► like this parallel track of computing [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► but i spent the majority of my time on [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► pcs simply because they were great for [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► gaming and i was just a you know massive [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► gamer and you know still him to a degree [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► but the platform itself was obviously [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► you know very much pushed forward by [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► gamers you know there were other [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► industries that were responsible for [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► pushing certain components of the [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► computer you know the cpu or the GPU or [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► whatever forward depending on their [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► needs their specific needs obviously you [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► know data storage is very much like an [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► enterprise thing and you know so on and [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► so forth but the the GPU and cpu were [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► pushed very hard for a lot of years by [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► gaming and still are you know i mean [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► obviously GP user where they are because [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► of gamers they're not there because of [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► you know true academics that some tina [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► howe stage do need those but only [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► because it was there it was sort of like [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► a chicken egg thing and they it's that [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► academics use heavily you know GPU [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► centric computing platforms and things [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► now because they can and they're the but [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► the gps are there because the gamers [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► wanted them and the game companies [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► pushed them hard i mean i remember [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► playing games that they said hey this [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► game looks this good this year but it'll [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► look even better next year right we've [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► already programmed in you know the Lord [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► the higher high resolution textures and [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► so on and so forth that we in better [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► physics engines that we know will only [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► your [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► will only support next year I was a [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► constant thing I never much in forward I [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► was never much of a gamer but I when I [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► was you know 20 years ago I was much [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► closer to a gamer than I am now and I [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► remember the even on the Mac that was [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► true that uh mm-hmm you know the [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► marathon was the big game that's right [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► the right yeah bungee the prick you know [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► bungees wasn't their first game but it [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► was the first real smash hit and sort of [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► a predecessor to what's the game on xbox [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► halo halo marathon was huge and and it [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► was networked so we could play it [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► against each other yeah love that game [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► you had to be on a local talk network [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► though you couldn't this is how old I am [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► you could play over the Internet I don't [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► know is that so yeah we played we played [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► that and then we played doom locally and [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► do dickham 3d all this stuff Mimi I mean [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► you get that and that's what drove it [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► you know what was that's what was [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► amazing what was amazing though is that [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► we'd get a new computer at the student [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► newspaper would you know get a new [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► quadra or something and all of a sudden [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► marathon ran way better and it was like [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► whoa I remember to a lot of times to it [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► was framerate right like you could yeah [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► and and certain games had settings where [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► you could optimize for frame rate or [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► optimized for graphics but you could get [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► the girl you could get the good graphics [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► but you wouldn't get a great frame rate [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden you get a new [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► computer and you get it all um every [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► night in the right dark forces and [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► everything was all smooth all of a [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► sudden right now right yeah yeah it's [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► right everything right that's what I [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► mean that's definitely you know the [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► money comes from gamers that's that's [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► what's driving the industry to keep [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► riping the billions of dollars into [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► research into ever more powerful GPUs [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► and then like you said like things like [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► academics who are really just running [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► math just math or data analysis it [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► really aren't even pushing pixels to a [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► screen they're literally just chewing [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► through mounds and mounds of [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► quote-unquote big data but you can do it [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► where the algorithms run faster on the [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► GPU than a cpu and they're taking [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► advantage of technology that was [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► developed for games and and the mac pro [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► just was it just was not where the [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► industry was headed and no matter i mean [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► you know gamer ever looked at the mac [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► pro and thought oh this is interesting [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► and heck they they barely looked at [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► the previous generation of Mac Pro's [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► that way because they knew that they [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► would be upgrading their GPU within six [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► to nine months to 12 months right and [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► that they would be pushing you know [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► looking for that and they didn't have [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► the confidence that AMD and NVIDIA would [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► consistently release that highest you [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► know highest performance graphics card [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► for the the mac pro in that in that [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► original configuration much less the new [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► one obviously where Apple's the one who [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► controls that yeah so what occurs to me [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► and looking at this scenario and I mean [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► it's not just in last week but I think [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► having learned now what we now know I [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► think it's almost certain is that [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► there's at least a little bit of hubris [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► here in the design of the 2013 Mac Pro [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► that I think is fueled by the iphone and [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► ipad where with the iPhone Apple the [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► iphone market in and of itself is so big [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► and so lucrative and that Apple can [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► define the computer architecture of the [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► iphone and can define the api's for [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► creating software for it and runs the [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► app store and can you know it it not [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► really adhere to you know define which [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► api's you use but sort of make sure that [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► your software is is you know it within [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► the lines of how they want software [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► written um but primarily just by being [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► able to define the hardware they can [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► define if you want your software to run [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► well you're going to have to do it the [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► way we envision you doing it whether you [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► know it's not even so much the app store [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► forget the app store part it's just [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► you've got to take advantage of the way [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► the iphone is architected and the iphone [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► is so big that developers will do it i [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► mean literally they even you know and [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► this is less of a big deal today or eat [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► more easily overlooked because it's [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► always been the case but in the early [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► years of the iphone it was a big deal [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► where an awful lot of developers were [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► like well i want we want our software on [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► the iphone we're buying their first max [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► ever because you had to run xcode to [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► write you still have to run xcode to [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► write iphone software and xcode only [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► runs on a mac and so it was literally [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► developers were buying an [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► Alton all new machine just to do it [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► whereas in the pro high performance [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► computing industry apple doesn't have [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► that sort of dominant role they can't [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► redefine or not it maybe not redefine [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► it's too strong a word but they can't [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► steer they couldn't push the industry to [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► switch to a multi-threaded GPU model [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► when everybody else you know more or [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► less what Apple needed to do was be [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► humble about it and go with the flow of [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► the industry which is big honkin single [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► GPUs mmhmm yeah I mean there's two so [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► twice if he was twice and don't don't at [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► me or whatever but I think twice during [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► the interview they they said something [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► about you know we want to make sure that [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► whatever we do is new and innovative and [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► I looked at I thought about that and I [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► was thinking about that during you know [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► when they said it because they said it [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► again when they said it again I kind of [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► my ears kind of perked up you know [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► because I think that that is there's two [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► ways to take that statement you could [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► take that statement and say hey I'm [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► doing something new and innovative and [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► you can you could just take it at face [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► value and go you know what great I'm [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► glad someone is right I'm glad somebody [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► cares enough to really push and make [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► sure that they're not obeying accepted [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► norms without questioning them that they [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► are truly pushing boundaries and and [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► questioning all of the underpinnings of [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► computing and making sure that the way [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► things are done is actually the right [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► way and the way they should be done all [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► of that right and you know you can [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► extrapolate keep you can keep going from [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► there all of the things that you would [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► like to say to interpret that in the [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► best light possible and then there's [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► another way to take it which is we are [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► so interested in doing something new and [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► innovative that we overlook at the [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► obvious hurdles because we are so [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► addicted to the slash-and-burn of you [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► know obeying our own recognizance right [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► or relying on our own recognizance to [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► chart the course of computing because if [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► you go hey every phone let's apply this [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► to existing you know what supplies to [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► existing [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► framework of the iphone you look at the [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► iphone you go hey if you just said look [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► guys you can do every other thing but [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► keyboards are great you know keyboards [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► are fantastic they're fun they work fine [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► you know thumbs press keys makes total [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► sense right week work since we were [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► cavemen we've been manipulating things [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► with our opposable thumbs why stop now I [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► mean there's plenty of really great [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► arguments that a lot of people made to [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► themselves and really convince [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► themselves we're right and that's why [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► there was a lot of blowback against the [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► no physical keyboard thing so Apple in [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► that moment you know maybe this is [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► Steve's genius of saying no this is the [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► right way or maybe this is a collective [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► genius which is more likely where Steve [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► acts is the editor for a lot of people's [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► flurry of ideas yeah I think we can make [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► this work and you know it's so so much [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► simpler less moving parts and blah blah [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► blah tons of arguments on the other side [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► right and they made a decision to to [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► slice out a very well-established [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► charted course of having that physical [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► keyboard that was not necessarily evil [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► right there's nothing bad about it it's [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► just did they saw pathways that opened [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► up for themselves if they got rid of it [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► like man then we can manipulate the [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► whole screen the keyboard can go away [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► when you don't need it you know blah [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► blah blah right you know all of the [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► arguments that we all know so well but [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► you look at that and it worked out [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► incredibly well for them and in fact not [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► only was it did it work out well for [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► them it was the right thing to do that's [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► why our phones look the same now right [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► but in this case I think they looked at [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► the problem and said hey this is the way [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► it could go this parallel GPU that [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► splits tasks it can run lower power when [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► it needs to you know it's very you know [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► power conscious which is great for the [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► environment etc etc and there's really [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► no reason that needs to be blowing all [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► this air all over the place all the time [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► and collecting all this unseemly dust [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► and why has nobody ever thought of this [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► and they got so excited about the fact [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► that they could do this thing that they [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► didn't stop and ask themselves well is [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► the simpler straighter you know more [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► common path is it a common path for a [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► reason like do we use metal because [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► metal is good you know or do we use a [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► strong powerful GPU because the industry [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► that we have [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► traditionally not served gaming industry [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► uses it and and that pushes everything [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► forward and we can ride that wave like [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► white why paddle out of the current [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► right and and generate all of the force [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► on your own when you can use additive [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► force on the existing current and go you [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► know what this is fine these this is our [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► limitation that we have to accommodate [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► this graphics card now what does that [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► look like maybe it's a flat slab with [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► almost nothing else to it that's [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► essentially a GPU you know or maybe its [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► external GPUs or whatever but I just [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► think that the like the questions got [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► asked and they applied roughly the same [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► frameworks to it that they did with the [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► iphone and end up with just the wrong [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► answer yeah and I don't know why that is [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► I'm I don't presuppose I'm dumb compared [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► to all these guys they have and girls [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► they have working on these problems so [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► you know I don't pre supposed to know [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► that's just my supposition as to how the [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► argument went down you know and a one [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► factor I guess I knew this but it got [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► reiterated a few times is that the the [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► Mac Pro had a sort of triangular shape [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► in the tube in the middle the hollow [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► Center to GP and a GPS CPU and it's not [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► just that it was three things in the air [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► flowed through the center to cool them [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► but that it was specifically designed [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► that all three sides of that triangle [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► would remain roughly on par with each [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► other in terms of the heat that needed [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► to be dissipated and it wasn't a design [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► that would accommodate one of the three [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► sides getting hotter than the others and [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► that season again with software that [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► more so now than before them this Mac [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► Pro was distributed that in intensive [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► graphics intensive software today is [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► about overloading a single GPU with as [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► much performance as you can get and it [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► just you know so even using this [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► configuration to run software that's [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► meant to run single threaded on a GPU [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► it's just not conducive to that because [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► you can't let one of the GPS get hotter [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► than another and it probably plays into [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► the fact that the mac pro as we know it [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► is sort of notorious for [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► almost like like a European sports car [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► that they they're not the most rugged [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► machines are durable machines in terms [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► of reliability over the years that [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► people who've been pushing these [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► machines there's a lot of people who had [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► you know they seemingly anecdotally at [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► least after going to get GPUs replaced [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► pretty frequently mmm primarily from [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► overheating I mean that's the only way [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► really a computer part wears out or it's [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► part like a GPU could wear out all right [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► let me take a break and we'll come back [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► to this and but let me first thank our [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► first sponsor of this show circle from [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► Disney what is Circle Circle from Disney [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► is a beautiful little device designed [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► for families to manage content and time [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► online for all the devices in your home [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► it pairs with just about any Wi-Fi [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► router and it recognizes every device [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► connected to it tablets PCs smartphones [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► even Chromebooks anything that connects [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► to the Wi-Fi in your house it will [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► recognize it and then parents can set [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► profiles for each member of the family [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► and tailor the individual preferences [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► for each one it's very easy to set up it [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► is exactly what you would think of from [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► something from Disney it is not like [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► setting up something from Cisco where [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► you need a network engineering degree it [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► is very much what you would think Disney [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► would design for non network engineering [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► moms and dads you just download the app [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► choose your network it's that simple you [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► go from there and just tap things on the [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► app what kind of things did let you do [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► it lets you filter content customize [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► what's available and you can set time [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► limits and you can set the time limits [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► on specific things like YouTube [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► minecraft Facebook Netflix and even [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► snapchat kids staying up late on their [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► tablet you can set a bedtime for each [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► kid and their devices families can also [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► see how they spend their time online [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► with their insight to feature it's [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► really great Disney super stoked about [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► this they've just number a couple of new [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► things they just launched a new thing [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► about a month ago it's called circle [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► connections it lets you connect app [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► services and devices like friend of the [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► show automatic you know the car dinkus [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► well now you can hook that up and the [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► family can [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► share stuff like that through the circle [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► Alexa ifttt chore monster and others you [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► can all hook up to your circle it's sort [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► of turning into a platform Disney is [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► very excited about this recently Apple's [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► CFO Luca maestri was held a meeting with [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► the Italian press at the Italian [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► consulate in New York City and he was [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► talking about how his family uses Apple [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► products and devices and he specifically [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► mentioned circle with Disney something [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► that his family uses to manage his [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► family's devices i will put a link to [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► this in the show notes i think you're [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► going to need to translate it from [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► italian but that's okay i'm sure most [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► people listen to the show speak fluent [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► Italian but that's a pretty cool story [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► i'm pretty you don't really hear disney [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► or apple see c-level executives talking [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► up products from other companies all [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► that often so anyway very exciting stuff [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► where do you go to find out more easy go [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► to meet circle m eet circle calm and [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► remember this code the talk show and you [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► will get free shipping and ten dollars [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► off your circle with disney device it's [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► a ninety nine dollar product 89 bucks [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► with the talk show code and circle go [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► which is their service for mobile like a [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► phone like cellular service is nine [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► dollars and ninety-five cents a month [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► for up to 10 devices ios-only but that's [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► probably not a little problem for [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► listeners of the talk show so my thanks [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► to Disney meet circle dot com code the [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► talk show great product so timeline wise [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► more spectators here's my take my take [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► is that in the 20 I mean because one [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► thing a couple people have observed is [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► it's not like this is the first Mac Pro [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► that went a long time between updates [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► the Mac Pro had sort of been on a longer [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► than one year update schedule for a [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► while so the fact that there wasn't an [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► update in 2014 I don't think struck I [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► don't think it really surprised anybody [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► right my guess is sometime around 20 [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► 15 2016 is when an update certainly by [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► 2016 it was everybody was talking about [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► and certainly Apple was aware of it I [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► think I don't know this I don't have any [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► sort of in you know super sources inside [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► but i think and i don't i don't think [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► anybody surprised by this i I think that [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► as as the round 2015 2016 as it became [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► more obvious that the design of the mac [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► pro was problematic I think there was a [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► sense within Apple that maybe that's [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► okay and maybe macbook pros combined [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► with ever more powerful imax it might be [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► the way future to satisfy the Pro users [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► of the Mac market mm-hmm and I think and [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► I think this came up at our interview [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► last week and I think that they sort of [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► emphasized just what we want a war soon [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► as be what would just what a large [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► percentage of their what they define as [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► Pro users are using macbook pros and [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► imacs and they even mentioned this end [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► if anything this might have been the [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► most surprising part of the meeting is [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► where they mentioned specifically that [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► they have new imacs in the pipeline that [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► are coming slated for some time this [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► year that are including configurations [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► that are that are geared towards pro [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► customers I think that what happened is [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► that it probably at a very high level I [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► mean I'm not naming names I don't know [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► but I think at a pretty high level [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► within the company they talk themselves [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► into believing that the imac including [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► the ever better imax combined with the [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► macbook pros could cover everything they [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► needed to cover and i think at some [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► point recently let's say within the last [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► six months or so maybe a little more [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► they realize no that's that the one [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► percent of mac users who can't be [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► satisfied by an imac need up a real pro [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► computer that's my [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► yeah I mean I think you're I think [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► you're probably right if it sounds that [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► sounds reasonable I I definitely think [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► there was that moment which they alluded [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► to because they said but we realized we [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► needed more that they did feel that a [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► larger and larger segment of the pro [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► market was being served by the 5k screen [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► and computer slept in the back and you [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► know I certainly it's what I've been [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► using for a long time and had a mac pro [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► in years and I only had one briefly and [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► honestly a lot of the times that I ran [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► mac pro level machines on you know with [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► OS 10 running on them I ran hackintosh [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► is for that GPU reason yeah you know and [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► Hagin touches are becoming a much more I [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► don't doubt that Apple sees this all [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► right you know the Diagnostics probably [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► tell them you know general opt-in [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► Diagnostics probably tell them if not [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► pulling the community but there are an [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► increasing number of people running [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► hackintosh a--'s which are you know pc [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► components that have OS 10 driver [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► support or have you know some sort of [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► crib together driver support and that [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► are they're being put together and then [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► you boot OS 10 on them either with the [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► use of a bootloader piece of software or [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► piece of hardware that allows you to [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► boot OS 10 fulo ascendant is thinking [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► that you're running a mac and the [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► advantage that offers is of course you [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► can build according to your precise [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► power needs perhaps even more powerful [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► than is currently on the market which is [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► a situation we're in right now with the [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► mac pro and then of course you can you [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► know you can run windows on a mac but [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► now you can run windows on a more [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► powerful mac that can then run very high [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► performance games or other applications [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► and so you you'll see people like um who [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► was it the recently wrote out a fairly [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► solid you know kind of what it's like to [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► build a hackintosh right now just [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► recently it was was it my grundle I [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► really think it was I think Mike was [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► mentioning was talking about running [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► agata somebody else just wrote a piece [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► that was traded around a lot I mean you [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► know many folks have over the years they [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► build uh people graphics software for [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► the mac [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► and it's not due to my brains blanking [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► I'll turn get back to it if I can but [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► the the gist of it is is like best of [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► both worlds scenario where they they [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► love OS 10 and they just they should are [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► using windows they'd use it when they [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► they need to to to make it through you [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► know or to run software that only runs [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► on Windows AKA you know as Class A games [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► that just don't ship on multiple [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► platforms although steam is making that [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► better to a degree but the OS 10 is just [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► you know the beautiful experience and [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► all that and they can build this really [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► custom experience underneath it and I [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► think that that more people being [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► willing to consider a hackintosh and [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► that the community really looking to [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► those builders to try and tell them [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► exactly what parts to buy and you know [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► exactly how to build in all of that I [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► think that really speaks to this desire [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► to have OS 10 but with a more [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► customizable hardware platform [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► underneath it not just more powerful [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► more with a capital P but also more [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► customizable truly modular you're right [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► the truly modular experience that people [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► haven't had in in many years so even [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► though they appreciate the design and [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► the thoughtfulness that went into the [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► mac pro as it currently exists I think [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► many people feel that those choices [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► being made for them stands out as an [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► even more irritating decision because of [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► the segments that they're going after [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► like how many I Mac users I mean well [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► scratch that they're plenty it like Mac [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► Mac Apple users love to complain because [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► they're so attuned to detail right the [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► company has taught them to be picky [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► about their stuff that's why they're [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► that's the base reason that the Mac [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► community the Apple community is so [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► picky about stuff because they've been [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► trained to care right by a company that [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► ostensibly cares so but scratching that [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► did setting that aside the average Mac [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► user the eighty percent let's call it of [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► the mac users out there who are like hey [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► I just wanna I mean a big computer for [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► my desk and I love apple stuff what do I [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► get that's not a portable oh we buy an [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► imac [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► the vast majority of those are not going [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► crazy about like oh I can't you know [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► change this particular chipset right or [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► whatever like I can't get this network [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► card instead of this network card or [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► whatever but the segment that they did [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► it to was the one that was going to be [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► the most allergic to it in the long run [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► and like that is another thing that was [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► kind of weird to me why you know I [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► wonder if there was I mean I'm sure [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► there was an advocate inside saying this [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► is great but it actually something like [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► the Mac Pro imagine if that was the imac [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► now these days i think the imac is the [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► right choice people just buy one thing [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► and they're done nobody buys you know [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► nobody wants to buy separate monitors [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► they do it because they have to write [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► like the average person so I think the [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► imac is the right configuration I'm not [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► trying to say the mac pro is right for [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► the normal normal person but that [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► segment of the market would have been [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► much more receptive and and welcoming I [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► think of a thing where it's like don't [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► worry about it we thought it all out all [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► right we got we've got the perfect sweet [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► capsule for you that's gonna do amazing [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► things performance wise totally enough [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► for you plot this on your desk and plug [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► it in and enjoy and that segment i think [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► is much more receptive and welcoming of [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► that whereas the pro segment is the [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► opposite the first thing they do is [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► refresh that i fix it basically see how [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► things tear down and they want to know [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► what's in there and all of added they [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► want to be informed consumers and i [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► think that that leads itself to the [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► desire to have choice and all that stuff [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► i don't know it's just the way i see [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► that they just sort of pitched it to the [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► wrong people yeah i think that there's a [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► there's a continuum of everything but [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► there's a continuum of people's price [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► sensitivity but i think that at a [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► certain end if you talk about like [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► college age students who want a mac for [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► gaming and what type or want a computer [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► that can dual boot it but use a mac but [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► have powerful GPU for gaming are going [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► to more willing to spend the time to do [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► the hackintosh and to put up with the [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► incompatibilities and the worries about [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► applying software updates and you know [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► maybe wait until somebody else decides [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► what [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► this graphics card is going to work with [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► the latest version of Sierra and all of [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► that e versus the professional market [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► where price isn't really the issue it's [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► there they're begging Apple to charge [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► them a lot of money for a computer and [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► part of what they're willing to spend [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► money for is that it just works factor [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► of getting a real knack and and the [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► hacking tag like I can see why the [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► hackintosh root is more popular than [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► growing unpopularity given the mac pro [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► stagnation but I think it's a large part [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► of that I mean and clearly like I said [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► it's a continuum and there's obvious [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► exceptions there might be real [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► professional users there certainly are [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► some who are doing it but I think for [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► the most part of a real professional [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► user who might be willing to spend you [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► know ten thousand dollars or fifteen [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► thousand dollars on a workstation isn't [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► going to do it with the unsupported [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► drivers and an unsupported configuration [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► like they're going they're the type of [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► people who are like if I if I can't get [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► hardware from Apple that meets my needs [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► I'd rather switch to windows and get a [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► supported configuration mm-hmm where's [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► the hobby that's totally right the [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► hobbies community as always by [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► definition been self-supporting they [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► don't need support they are their own [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► support yeah and whatever configuration [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► they're coming up with they're getting [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► live essentially live tech support on it [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► from the community that they're in of [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► those similar people that build those [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► things hey is anybody ever come across [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► this problem you know I did it a bunch [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► of times and I was building hackintosh [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► Azure it's like you know cuz I was just [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► too poor to own a really powerful mac [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► and so I would just build out of pc [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► parts and then run OS 10 on it and you [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► know I'm sure Apple's cringing and [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► whatever but you know is what I could [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► afford I think a lot of people start out [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► that way you know those price sensitive [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► people but there are also you know sort [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► of hacker friendly or whatever you want [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► to call it who don't mind instability [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► and thinking around because they just [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► lust after the list and experience and [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► the apple ecosystem and all of that but [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► i think that there's there's like it's [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► sort of like a like an entry point for [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► eventual mac pro owners right and so [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► either sits i know there are other entry [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► points right you you go to a company and [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► you become a designer [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► and all this in the company has a [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► corporate budget and what are you going [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► to buy right you're going to get your [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► mac pro you're going to be a designer [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► capital d and do all your design work [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► and that's great but I think there's a [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► long tail of people out there that are [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► that become pros through alternative [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► pathways don't have a lot of money to [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► spend want to get into the ecosystem [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► because they once again they love the [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► fact that the company prioritizes design [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► and prioritizes care and all of that and [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► their software and they know in the end [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► underneath it you know the hardware that [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► it runs isn't perhaps as carefully [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► picked and chosen as something Apple [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► would do but they can get it to run [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► right it's just a mishmash of junk but [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► it sort of runs and you get it running [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► and you feel good about it and you get [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► hooked on the ecosystem which is why I [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► always thought that like every once in a [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► while Apple will take a stab at like [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► trying to shut down hackintosh projects [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► and things like that and I was always [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► just like let it ride I mean if it [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► becomes like a major component of of [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► your your your business being stolen I [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► guess you got to take some legal and [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► there's also some legal things you have [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► to plant because of trademarks and all [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► that so that you can you can have a [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► future court case against Samsung and [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► say oh yeah we tried to protect it back [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► then even with little people so I get [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► the legal precedent thing but it's also [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► just like let it ride because it's like [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► the low simmering entry point to [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► somebody who eventually once they have [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► the means is like yes build me an [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► amazing mac please apple and I you know [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► powerful mac pro and i will buy it you [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► know now i have the means i'm addicted i [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► want the power but i also want to as 10 [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► and so on you know that's the way this [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► way oh i found that the hackintosh [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► article by the way it was by dan council [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► pasted in laid out 7 i'll send you the [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► link yeah it's a dance den council of [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► real mac um you know remix software [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► makes lots of great lots of great apps [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► this is not an ad etc but um he wrote an [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► article called building a hackintosh pro [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► we had a little earlier back in March [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► but it's you know it's his reasoning was [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► essentially they have an updated the mac [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► pro you know I need a full-size graphics [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► card for the stuff that I want to do and [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► it's not complicated you know it's not [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► like anybody's angry um well I mean I'm [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► sure spooler angry but it's not like [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► anybody's really you know thinkin Apple [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► is is doing things that are our consumer [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► hostile on purpose it's just that there [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► are certain needs and once they have an [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► apple didn't glom onto those needs and [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► wants or sign enough importance to them [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► soon enough to catch themselves so they [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► didn't have this big gap now yeah uh I [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► think you know bottom line I don't [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► really see how this well I'm sure [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► someone at Apple could deny it but I [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► think it seems pretty clear now that at [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► at some point in the last three years or [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► so or maybe starting around three years [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► ago that Apple sort of took its [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► collective eye off the ball on the Mac [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► at least on the hardware I think the [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► software is is going fine i think it I [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► think they're hitting their annual [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► release dates I think that they're solid [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► I think they're doing enough cool new [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► things that are very useful like this [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► the continuity stuff I use every day and [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► I just think like how the hell did I [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► ever go from having these links on my [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► iPhone and then switch to another [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► computer to look at them there before [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► this stuff worked some great features I [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► don't think that they should be [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► radically you know I think that the [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► complaint some people have about the mac [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► is that they haven't done anything [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► that's like a here's the radical new way [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► to use a mac I don't want that I don't I [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► mean obviously if they came up with [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► something that i liked i guess i'd like [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► it but I I kind of feel like they've [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► they've you know that's what new [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► products are for right that's why the [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► ipad is drank product like here's a [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► radical new way to do personal computing [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► on a portable device I still want to do [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► the stuff that the mac is great ad on [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► the mac hardware wise though I think [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► it's hard to deny that they kind of took [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► their eye off the ball and I think part [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► of this sort of let's hit the reset [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► button mindset is that reaction to the [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► macbook pros last fall i think was mixed [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► I don't think it's fair to say it was a [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► poor reaction but I do think it was a [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► mixed reaction and I think that took [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► Apple by surprised I think Apple [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► internally thought they had a smash [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► hit on their hands and was sort of taken [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► aback by the number of people who [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► expressed displeasure at the decisions [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► they made with the macbook pro and [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► during our discussions schiller had [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► during his opening remarks addressed it [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► you know in his usual way where it [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► wasn't quite head-on but it was clear [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► what do you know he mentioned him and [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► said that they're hard at work on you [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► know a next group of macbook pros that [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► would address specifically address some [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► of the complaints professional users had [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► about the current ones mm-hmm although [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► he didn't say any of things of what [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► those are but I would presume where [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► maybe he mentioned Ram did he mention [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► Ram I mean one of the combines people [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► have about them the current macbook pros [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► is that there's still the maximum amount [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► of RAM you can put in them as 16 [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► gigabytes and the reason it's not 32 [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► gigabytes is because Apple is using I I [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► don't don't have to write me to tell me [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► but they're using ddr whatever [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► low-energy RAM and on the current Intel [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► chipsets if you're using the the kind of [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► low-energy battery-saving ram that Apple [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► wants to use to keep battery life good [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► the maximum you can get a 16 so they [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► could in theory have macbook pros that [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► have 32 gigabytes but it would involve a [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► complete riorca texture of which intel [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► chipset they're using and + to ship them [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► last year they would have not been able [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► to use the low-energy RAM and you know [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► we went through this when the macbook [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► pros came out and the answer from the [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► people who are Ram starved in their [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► professional work who really need more [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► than 16 or at least want if not needs [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► more than 16 gigabytes of RAM is I don't [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► care about the low-energy I'll plug the [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► goddamn thing in I I just write 32 [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► gigabytes of RAM which is a completely [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► reasonable trade-off it is completely [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► reasonable for a a Mac user who gets the [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► mac and loves the mac it's not like oh [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► if you were a real mac user you'd see [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► the genius of apples decision in this [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► regard I could totally see how there are [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► totally you know longtime diehard Mac [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► users who get and love the Mac who are [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► willing to say I would rather get eight [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► hours of battery life instead of 10 if i [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► could get 32 [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► bytes of ram in this machine instead of [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► 16 totally reasonable I think the number [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► of people who took that stance that took [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► Apple by surprise I mean not it's not [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► that Ram is the only issue you know that [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► the complaint that people have about the [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► macbook pros but it yeah yeah well then [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► so there's two things that I think that [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► are important touch i think the touch [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► thing we should talk about because i [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► think that's a very interesting you [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► mentioned ipad yeah but the other branch [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► of that discussion is you mentioned how [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► many people it took them by surprise you [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► know how to make people to that so it [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► sort of begs the question like why did [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► it take them by surprise you know right [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► like why why did it sneak up on them so [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► to speak well like I said best phrase I [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► can come up with is that they took their [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► eye off the ball a bit and and sort of [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► got a little too insular I mean I think [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► it's often the biggest risk to Apple is [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► that they're so insular as a culture [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► that they they can lose sight even if [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► they think they're keeping track of the [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► community and and they certainly I think [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► they certainly try to but I think that [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► they could talk themselves into just [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► taking their eye off the ball [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► specifically taking their eye off the [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► ball of the needs of larger chunks of [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► their of their users that's what I think [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► they took their eye off the ball on and [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► I think that there are so many things to [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► really love about the new macbook pro [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► that I think they I think that they [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► somehow got caught up loving the things [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► there are to love about them and lost [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► sight of the ways that it was falling [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► short of their profession some of their [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► professionals needs what were you going [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► to say about touch in that regard so the [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► things they mentioned essentially was if [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► you want touch by an iPad and use it [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► together and we're going to work on ways [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► to make those work better take or think [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► about ways to make those work better [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► together or whatever which says to me [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► that they want the not want this is not [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► the primary purpose of it but then iPad [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► pro you know they wanted to act like a [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► cintiq tablet of sorts that connects to [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► a mac pro or imac or whatever in a more [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► seamless fashion which makes a hell of a [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► ton of sense [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► because though the you know the pen [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► tracking and things like that Apple [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► feels superior to things like the [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► surface studio and the even though I [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► mean it's antiques quite obvious you [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► know the the cintiq tablets which are [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► made by Wacom are sort of like the de [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► facto industry standard you know any [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► design of it that earns enough money to [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► spend you know 1,500 2,000 dollars on it [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► is basically they're buying a pc with a [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► touchscreen glued to the front of it and [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► they lay it flat if you're not a [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► designer you know they lay it flat then [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► use the stylus directly on it therefore [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► directly drawing the line on the screen [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► it was like an iPad pro before and I [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► better not just analogize it throw it [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► backwards lens but the cintiq for many [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► years ruled the roost all right from [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► with designers and now I have this yet [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► I'm sure you do too but just because I [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► do happen to do a lot in apple stuff [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► when I'm looking at pictures even in [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► completely unrelated you know articles [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► or bhatia looking at desks I always look [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► at desks right and workspaces I'm [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► fascinated with workspaces you know from [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► machinists to the designers to anneal [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► anything else I think there's a lot of [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► fascination with a lot of fascinating [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► things to learn about a person by the [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► way they handle their workspace how [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► messy it is or how clean it is neither [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► of which are bad necessarily it's just [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► the person right how we move through [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► life you you made a keen observation [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► last week and one because our meeting [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► was held in in what they called the [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► machine shop but it's their design [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► realization lab where they take designs [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► that I guess are like CAD or just [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► prototypes and that it's a machine shop [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► where they take ideas for designs and [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► try to turn them into as realistic and a [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► realistic and approximation of what it [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► would actually be like as a real Apple [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► project as possible mm-hmm and I got the [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► feeling that a lot of that stuff was [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► just so that they can wing it around and [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► hold it and open and close open close [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► open close it and you know see how a [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► human like oh oh this feels really [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► awkward now that I hold it [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► made it as real as possible yeah but you [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► made the keen observation that will [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► looking around and they had a lot some [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► stuff covered with black drapes and they [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► obviously had shut down for the day they [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► said ordinarily there's a very noisy [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► facility for obvious reason but you made [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► the keen observation I thought of that [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► you could kind of see that they were [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► that some of the benches and stuff and [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► the machines were from different people [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► who work there because they were set up [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► in very different ways you know that [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► there's somebody who works at this spot [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► and that the person who works right [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► across this aisle from them is a [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► different person because there's their [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► tools were laid out in a different way [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► and I thought that was pretty [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► interesting yeah I mean I'm [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► hypersensitive to that I came from my [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► grandfather was a machinist and my dad [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► is a you know zach is a craftsman he's a [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► painter find our painter now but he for [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► many years was an install does works on [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► cars and all kinds of other stuff got [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► the same inclination obviously from his [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► dad I mean I'm I'm a dummy when it comes [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► to that stuff i just i can get my way [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► around but their workspace is always [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► fascinated with me with the like my [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► grandfather had a you know i don't know [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► what you call it a cabinet or whatever [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► which was he built himself cuz he's a [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► machinist so he worked in wood as well [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► and wood was like butter to him after [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► working on you know aircraft parts all [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► day and so we built like this cabinet [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► with these wooden drawers and there was [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► maybe i don't know 50 or 60 wooden [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► drawers and each one had a different [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► kind of thing in it like you know you go [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► like oh I need a washer like a split [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► lock washer and he's like oh right here [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► right and you look in and there's a [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► bunch of split water lock washers and [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► they're not new right there reclaimed [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► right there like like a little bit of [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► oil a grid on them but they're fine [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► right they're fine and he put some back [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► there and that way you know like hey I [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► got to fix this thing under the sink or [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► whatever he came from that generation [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► where it's like I'm gonna fix this thing [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► I'm gonna go out pull out a drawer grab [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► this thing and put it in I'm not gonna [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► go to the store and buy a whole new [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► faucet and he's not whatever and he's [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► also not going to jury rig it with with [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► an ill-fitting part and just so no no [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► scrappy together with a rag yeah [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► dripping he's gonna have the exact [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► washer that you need to make a complete [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► you know make the right fit right [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► they're right exactly in the same thing [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► with the tools you know all of the like [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► a punch or a work a pair of pliers or [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► clamp or anything like that's all all [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► laid out all kind of had its own place [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► used worn grimy whatever but they're [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► right and organized in some way to [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► according to his brain and I just saw [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► that reflected on the workspaces and I'm [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► not like you know this is the same in [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► machine shops around the world so I'm [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► not trying to say that Apple is some [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► sort of you know crazy special place I [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► just found it really nice to see because [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► it says hey these are craftsmen a lot of [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► people think about this like Johnny [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► designs it and some thing prints it out [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► you know overseas and that's it but you [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► know I think it is it is very important [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► for us to remember that as you don't [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► Steve said these are you know the world [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► is made up of people who are no smarter [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► than you then they made all these things [TS]

00:58:38 ◼   ► you know ll it is is they apply [TS]

00:58:41 ◼   ► themselves you know they put the effort [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► into learning how to do this and so you [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► see those wooden work boxes there with [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► the they're measuring tools and punches [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► and filing tools and those things all [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► laid out in different bits for their CNC [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► machines for the cutting machines and [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► all of that stuff laid out and you could [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► tell like a a man or woman works here [TS]

00:59:03 ◼   ► you know and they their personality live [TS]

00:59:05 ◼   ► in the sex yeah yeah exactly and so [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► while the machines themselves may have [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► the overall personality of somebody you [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► know that a lot of man hours and 11 [TS]

00:59:15 ◼   ► hours what are you gonna call I hate [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► that term eight hours but they went into [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► it and then it definitely rough was [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► reflected in the workspaces you know [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► what I found compelling but any I did [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► grass but like from the workspaces thing [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► I'm seeing more and more on more more [TS]

00:59:30 ◼   ► designers workspaces they'll have [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► whatever computer a mac or a pc or [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► whatever invariably though ipad pro and [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► a pencil hmm like everywhere like i was [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► reading an article about nike the other [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► day designing some shoe because i'm a [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► shoe fanatic and on the table in the [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► background ipad pro no pencil right I [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► think it's sort of gaining a lot of [TS]

00:59:51 ◼   ► traction in that industry and in that [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► field and an apple Caesar says an [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► opening for them to go hey we can serve [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► these [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► customers who have [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► customers who have [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► traditionally been very Apple centric [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► and we can hopefully not lose them but [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► at the same time hold to our beliefs [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► which I from their discussion during our [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► talk there they still very strongly [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► believe that touches does not belong on [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► that huge vertical monitor right you [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► know and so this is a way that they can [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► sort of serve both of those well and as [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► Craig joked you know also allows them to [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► sell more products yeah they do and [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► they're very upfront about that that [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► they like it when ya buy loads of apple [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► products that's the person who is a [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► recent iPad convert because of the ipad [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► pro and pencil who I found fascinating [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► and it was exactly what I suspected is [TS]

01:00:41 ◼   ► Jonathan Hoefler of Hoefler and company [TS]

01:00:44 ◼   ► though sure typographers and friend of [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► the show icon designer and I con artist [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► and and graphic designer illustrator [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► extraordinary Louie Mancha is getting [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► into creating his own typefaces and if I [TS]

01:01:01 ◼   ► this is like any super artistic person [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► it's it's not like you know he's so [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► talented I mean he can draw [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► illustrations he can make icons he can [TS]

01:01:10 ◼   ► do logos and he's drawing typefaces um [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► and put one up like a a through z [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► specimen up and asked Hoefler first [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► thoughts and Hoefler rather than just [TS]

01:01:21 ◼   ► tweet his response like took it and [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► marked it up with just a slew of of [TS]

01:01:28 ◼   ► thoughts and just little details and and [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► parts of a be that maybe should be the [TS]

01:01:33 ◼   ► mirror image of the d you know like a B [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► and a lowercase B and D and and other [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► areas where you think like as a kid you [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► grow up thinking Oh Abby and a dr just [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► mirror images well sometimes you want [TS]

01:01:45 ◼   ► them to be and sometimes you don't and [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► with explanations of why you know maybe [TS]

01:01:48 ◼   ► you'd want to take a bigger chunk out of [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► this or you want to have this be curved [TS]

01:01:52 ◼   ► or this Beach I found it as a as a as a [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► fan of typography who does not have the [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► artistic ability to create typography in [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► any way shape or form like there's no [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► chance that I could make a good looking [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► typeface none but I can appreciate a [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► good typeface and I'd like to think at [TS]

01:02:12 ◼   ► least that I can appreciate that [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► difference between a good typeface and a [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► great typeface and I found his mark up [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► to be fascinating from a typographic [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► level but then I was also interested in [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► how did he make this mock-up and he [TS]

01:02:24 ◼   ► write like of course you would ask and [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► he said that it on Twitter huh Fleur [TS]

01:02:28 ◼   ► said that he switched he got an ipad pro [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► like a year ago and took to it and I [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► forget what jab he's using but it's like [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► I think it's like PDF pro PDF Expert I [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► one of the third-party PDF markup apps [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► and that it was so good for him that he [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► got ipad pros for the entire company and [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► they switched their entire crit critique [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► process for typefaces from paper to PDFs [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► and it was all specifically it never [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► could have happened before the iPad prom [TS]

01:03:00 ◼   ► pencil and that they're a loving it [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► they're way more efficient and be there [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► saving like eight thousand sheets of [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► paper a day right right like an unlit I [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► don't know what exactly said but it was [TS]

01:03:13 ◼   ► you can imagine how many you know a [TS]

01:03:15 ◼   ► company full of type designers who do [TS]

01:03:17 ◼   ► lots of critiques and and lots of [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► iterations over and over and over again [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► and every letter that they're saving an [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► awful lot of yepper and they've got now [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► they've got a paper trail of the [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► evolution of a typeface that is [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► electronically you know searchable and [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► doesn't need to be archived in filing [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► cabinet or something like that anyway I [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► thought that was interesting yeah i mean [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► like as a long time you know scouting i [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► came come from a family of artists and I [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► never fully went down that path there [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► was like a brief period where I thought [TS]

01:03:44 ◼   ► I was gonna be a fine artist and I went [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► into I went more into the photographic [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► side of things but I did take all of the [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► required you know drawing classes life [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► drawing etc sewing and I could I could [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► still sketch you a reclining nude if you [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► want one but the that process of like [TS]

01:04:03 ◼   ► pencil to paper the way everybody holds [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► a pencil every artist holds one slightly [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► differently different angle different [TS]

01:04:09 ◼   ► inflection and it feels organic and [TS]

01:04:12 ◼   ► natural to them and a typical stylist [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► requires that you have a fairly precise [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► specific angle on it to make it react to [TS]

01:04:20 ◼   ► the surface in a certain way and the [TS]

01:04:22 ◼   ► pencil doesn't I mean you within a [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► certain bounds you can't go as extreme [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► as you can [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► with a pencil but you can go a lot more [TS]

01:04:29 ◼   ► extreme because of the way that they [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► built it and a way of course that they [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► built the screen to match it whereas [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► most people are working with a fairly [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► standard touch screen and then mating [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► whatever you know Swizzle they can get [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► in a stylist to it to try and make it [TS]