The Talk Show

189: ‘Long Press on the French Fries’, With Special Guest Rene Ritchie


00:00:00   uh so how are you it's been a while like [TS]

00:00:03   I have a lot to cover because I my last [TS]

00:00:06   episode was the Lisa Jackson episode so [TS]

00:00:07   it wasn't really news related so it's [TS]

00:00:09   there's a lot on the agenda [TS]

00:00:11   um trying to think of more even where to [TS]

00:00:14   start I guess we could start with board [TS]

00:00:16   early results I don't know um I know I [TS]

00:00:20   mean well I just wrote a big piece but [TS]

00:00:24   about iPhone sales in China but I I [TS]

00:00:27   don't know I don't think it's a major I [TS]

00:00:28   don't think the quarterly results this [TS]

00:00:30   time were all that bad or good you know [TS]

00:00:35   I think long story short my take on them [TS]

00:00:37   is that there was a pretty good quarter [TS]

00:00:38   everywhere except China and it was sales [TS]

00:00:41   iPhone sales continuing to slide in [TS]

00:00:43   China turned a pretty good quarter into [TS]

00:00:45   an ok quarter where yeah they flat you [TS]

00:00:49   know glad I think is a great word to [TS]

00:00:50   describe it and there were two things [TS]

00:00:52   that Tim Cook said that really stood out [TS]

00:00:53   to me and one was when they're talking [TS]

00:00:56   about new customer acquisition that the [TS]

00:00:57   rate of switchers from Android to iPhone [TS]

00:00:59   was up everywhere when you discounted [TS]

00:01:02   China yeah which is a different story [TS]

00:01:04   than they used to tell but that's a big [TS]

00:01:06   that's a big but because part of what I [TS]

00:01:10   wrote about today based on a very good [TS]

00:01:13   column by friend of the show Ben [TS]

00:01:14   Thompson with some market research [TS]

00:01:17   there's two at least two two pieces of [TS]

00:01:20   market research one from China and [TS]

00:01:22   another from UBS analyst that was that [TS]

00:01:26   came out last year show that in China [TS]

00:01:30   there's a lot less a lot lower retention [TS]

00:01:33   rate meaning when an i somebody who [TS]

00:01:36   already owns an iphone goes to buy a new [TS]

00:01:37   phone do they buy another iPhone or do [TS]

00:01:39   they switch to another brand that's [TS]

00:01:41   retention rate and its really pretty [TS]

00:01:43   considered in the West it's pretty [TS]

00:01:45   consistently in the mid to high 80s in [TS]

00:01:47   the u.s. in the UK and Germany it's you [TS]

00:01:49   know for two or three years now it's [TS]

00:01:52   very consistently 8485 Germany's even a [TS]

00:01:55   little higher 88 89 Japan is a little [TS]

00:01:58   lower like mid 70s but pretty flat year [TS]

00:02:01   to year but in China it went from like [TS]

00:02:04   Western levels in the 80s like a couple [TS]

00:02:07   years ago to around 50 percent now which [TS]

00:02:09   is not good from Apple's perspective [TS]

00:02:12   then I say very different [TS]

00:02:14   than what they spoke about previously if [TS]

00:02:16   you flash back a couple years when they [TS]

00:02:18   were talking about the lack of low [TS]

00:02:19   entry-level pricing on iPhones one of [TS]

00:02:21   the things that Apple said is they [TS]

00:02:22   didn't need to be your first phone if [TS]

00:02:24   all you wanted was the cheapest phone if [TS]

00:02:26   cheapness was your primary feature that [TS]

00:02:28   was great but it wasn't a feature they [TS]

00:02:29   were competing on and they would count [TS]

00:02:31   on the fact that you would get into [TS]

00:02:32   smart phones and then if you wanted a [TS]

00:02:33   better phone experience you'd upgrade to [TS]

00:02:35   an iPhone and a lot of people did that [TS]

00:02:37   either for status or for iOS for iOS [TS]

00:02:39   apps but that's not that's no longer the [TS]

00:02:42   case in China there is still the status [TS]

00:02:43   symbol implement but has been pointed [TS]

00:02:45   out the the platform layer has shifted [TS]

00:02:47   from base operating system to messaging [TS]

00:02:49   yeah and especially it's particularly [TS]

00:02:51   this app WeChat which is I think only in [TS]

00:02:55   China I don't know or at least it's [TS]

00:02:56   really only a sensation in China but [TS]

00:02:58   it's you know truly staggering numbers [TS]

00:03:00   for it's a four year old comfort or a [TS]

00:03:01   four year old app from another company [TS]

00:03:03   but it's I don't 900 million monthly [TS]

00:03:06   active users something like that and I [TS]

00:03:10   don't want to go too I'll put it linked [TS]

00:03:12   I swear to god in the show notes at [TS]

00:03:17   least in my article which has a link to [TS]

00:03:18   the to the post from a woman named [TS]

00:03:20   Connie Chen at the Anderson Horowitz [TS]

00:03:26   explaining more or less for you know [TS]

00:03:29   here what is WeChat and why you know why [TS]

00:03:31   is it a sensation in China and long [TS]

00:03:33   story short it's sort of like an OS and [TS]

00:03:35   a in an app where it's a messaging app [TS]

00:03:38   but you can do so much stuff you can pay [TS]

00:03:42   free it's like you know like an Apple [TS]

00:03:44   pay type competitor where you can go [TS]

00:03:46   into a store and use WeChat to pay for [TS]

00:03:47   the lunch while you're in line and you [TS]

00:03:51   know like Ben has said that in China [TS]

00:03:53   it's it makes you look like a rube if [TS]

00:03:56   you pay with cash everybody else is [TS]

00:03:57   paying with WeChat just all sorts of [TS]

00:04:00   stuff you can buy stuff it's a shopping [TS]

00:04:02   app it's you know that all sorts of [TS]

00:04:04   companies that would like to be on the [TS]

00:04:06   WeChat platform set up their own like [TS]

00:04:10   authorized account it's like a special [TS]

00:04:11   account status that opens up a bunch of [TS]

00:04:14   ABA API so you can have a programmatic [TS]

00:04:16   back-end so other WeChat users can when [TS]

00:04:19   they're chatting with you know you know [TS]

00:04:23   Rene and John incorporated we can sell [TS]

00:04:26   them t-shirts or sneakers or whatever [TS]

00:04:27   right [TS]

00:04:27   that we chat up yeah [TS]

00:04:31   and messaging is fragmented so it [TS]

00:04:33   doesn't really you don't have to own [TS]

00:04:34   messaging everywhere as long as you in [TS]

00:04:35   the China market with WeChat you're fine [TS]

00:04:37   the Japanese market with line it's [TS]

00:04:38   almost like people who are such casual [TS]

00:04:40   computer users that all they ever uses [TS]

00:04:42   Facebook it makes no difference in them [TS]

00:04:44   if they're on a Mac or a Windows PC or a [TS]

00:04:45   library terminal or anything their [TS]

00:04:47   entire computing experience is Facebook [TS]

00:04:49   and it makes it easy to migrate right my [TS]

00:04:50   argument and I've said this you know [TS]

00:04:52   I've always thought this and I still [TS]

00:04:54   believe it's always been true and always [TS]

00:04:55   will be true is that in the in the basic [TS]

00:04:59   apples model is selling nice hardware [TS]

00:05:02   differentiated by proprietary software [TS]

00:05:04   that's also nice but it's the software [TS]

00:05:07   part is more important than the hardware [TS]

00:05:09   part because that's what makes people [TS]

00:05:14   sticky to the platform you know and so [TS]

00:05:17   like a Mac user and I you know I've put [TS]

00:05:19   this forth before I think you would [TS]

00:05:21   agree with Allah I just love it as a [TS]

00:05:22   thought experiment but would you rather [TS]

00:05:24   use Apple's OS on competing hard on some [TS]

00:05:29   other hardware ah or would you rather [TS]

00:05:32   use some other hardware platform that's [TS]

00:05:39   running right some other hardware [TS]

00:05:40   platform running Apple's OS would you [TS]

00:05:42   rather use Apple's hardware running the [TS]

00:05:43   other OS so for example would you rather [TS]

00:05:45   have like I would rather have a Google [TS]

00:05:47   pixel that runs iOS hypothetically since [TS]

00:05:50   that's not really possible instead of [TS]

00:05:52   say an iPhone 7 that's running Android a [TS]

00:05:55   totally and I think is easy to see [TS]

00:05:57   because there are other companies that [TS]

00:05:58   can manufacture beautiful hardware and [TS]

00:06:00   there in fact the suppliers of a lot of [TS]

00:06:01   Apple's components so we know they can [TS]

00:06:03   make really good components but no one [TS]

00:06:05   else has proven they can make really [TS]

00:06:06   good software yet that's a much more [TS]

00:06:07   rarer skill right and and with the iOS [TS]

00:06:10   example it's a real hypothetical because [TS]

00:06:12   I don't even think it's possible I [TS]

00:06:14   really think that there there's [TS]

00:06:15   technical aspects of like the you know [TS]

00:06:18   the secure Enclave and stuff like that [TS]

00:06:20   that would keep something from my [TS]

00:06:21   message from working like in my [TS]

00:06:22   hypothetical example I'd have everything [TS]

00:06:24   you know my iMessage would work my [TS]

00:06:26   iCloud ID would work on this pixel [TS]

00:06:29   running iOS but I would rather have that [TS]

00:06:31   even though I do in the abstract prefer [TS]

00:06:33   an iPhone 7 over [TS]

00:06:35   the Google pixel which is the the latest [TS]

00:06:37   Android phone that I'm most familiar [TS]

00:06:38   with and which I have to say is actually [TS]

00:06:40   you know the nicest Android phone I've [TS]

00:06:42   ever I ever saw it versus the other way [TS]

00:06:46   around [TS]

00:06:47   it would drive me not have to use [TS]

00:06:48   Qualcomm scrappy processors instead of [TS]

00:06:49   the a series but you can look at it yeah [TS]

00:06:51   I could live with it it's you know it's [TS]

00:06:53   fast enough [TS]

00:06:54   you know III peg it you know if you look [TS]

00:06:56   at the specs it's they're like somewhere [TS]

00:06:57   on 18 months to 24 months behind [TS]

00:06:59   I mean I'd still you know I would rather [TS]

00:07:01   use a two year old iPhone 6 then use you [TS]

00:07:06   know cutting-edge Android because the [TS]

00:07:07   platform is most important to me it's [TS]

00:07:09   just my mind is warped around it it's [TS]

00:07:11   part of the way I think about how to do [TS]

00:07:13   stuff on the phone and whenever I pose [TS]

00:07:17   that question you know and I with [TS]

00:07:19   computers it's actually is possible [TS]

00:07:20   because you could create you can create [TS]

00:07:22   a hackintosh that that works although [TS]

00:07:24   there's still as things like iMessage [TS]

00:07:26   still you know has problems and stuff [TS]

00:07:27   like that because there's security you [TS]

00:07:29   know it's not perfect hackintosh just [TS]

00:07:31   don't work perfectly but they do work [TS]

00:07:34   I'd rather have a hackintosh I gotta [TS]

00:07:36   think pad running Mac OS 10 then [TS]

00:07:39   anything Windows you name it Chrome or [TS]

00:07:42   whatever whatever else a desktop PC [TS]

00:07:45   operating system I could have running on [TS]

00:07:46   a MacBook yeah absolutely the same but I [TS]

00:07:50   have heard I know there are people that [TS]

00:07:51   probably listening to the show right now [TS]

00:07:53   I've heard from them whenever I bring [TS]

00:07:54   this up because I do think it's an [TS]

00:07:55   interesting hypothetical question um [TS]

00:07:57   there are definitely people who I hear [TS]

00:07:59   from who you know read read my stuff or [TS]

00:08:02   listen to the show and say no I you know [TS]

00:08:03   used Windows forever but switched to a [TS]

00:08:06   MacBook just because of the hardware and [TS]

00:08:09   in a lot of times I'll say like and you [TS]

00:08:11   know not just the way it looks but I [TS]

00:08:12   just got sick of the fact like I wanted [TS]

00:08:14   a laptop that just when I opened it up [TS]

00:08:16   it turns on when I close it it shuts its [TS]

00:08:18   networks trackpad Works trackpad working [TS]

00:08:21   is a huge thing and I know Joe and a [TS]

00:08:24   stern friend of the show is often she's [TS]

00:08:25   like the the absolute queen of trackpad [TS]

00:08:31   judgements like she's got the ranking in [TS]

00:08:32   her head of him every single trackpad [TS]

00:08:34   quality in the whole market and I [TS]

00:08:36   totally trust her judgment on trackpad [TS]

00:08:38   quality that's a huge one but the people [TS]

00:08:43   who say that they switched like that a [TS]

00:08:44   lot of times say but that's the only [TS]

00:08:45   reason and that they're you know for [TS]

00:08:47   example very comments and [TS]

00:08:48   my audience at least are like web [TS]

00:08:50   developers whose entire life revolves [TS]

00:08:53   around Chrome a text editor in a [TS]

00:08:56   terminal window and any you know so [TS]

00:08:59   somebody like that if that's your life [TS]

00:09:00   if your life is just Google Chrome a [TS]

00:09:03   text editor and a terminal you can [TS]

00:09:05   easily switch to some other brand of [TS]

00:09:08   laptop running another operating system [TS]

00:09:09   you know because those things are [TS]

00:09:11   available on every platform yeah [TS]

00:09:14   absolutely same as a Facebook example [TS]

00:09:16   it's just your entire environment is [TS]

00:09:17   abstracted away from your computer right [TS]

00:09:19   well that's why I think Facebook is such [TS]

00:09:21   a not really a threat to Apple but like [TS]

00:09:25   a direct threat but certainly looms [TS]

00:09:27   large as and an indirect threat you know [TS]

00:09:34   like somebody like it's far more of a [TS]

00:09:36   threat Facebook is far more threatening [TS]

00:09:38   to Apple then to me at least then say [TS]

00:09:41   Samsung even though you would think [TS]

00:09:43   Samsung would be the one who's the [TS]

00:09:46   threat because they do the same thing [TS]

00:09:47   they make $700 cell phones that when [TS]

00:09:52   somebody goes into a store to decide [TS]

00:09:53   what to buy they're only going to buy [TS]

00:09:54   one whereas I feel like Apple has it [TS]

00:10:00   it's successfully as in-app has always [TS]

00:10:03   been or at least has been for 20 years [TS]

00:10:05   in a position where the quality of their [TS]

00:10:07   products are enough that they don't [TS]

00:10:09   really have to worry about somebody else [TS]

00:10:10   who also sells nice things because [TS]

00:10:12   they've got the software platform to [TS]

00:10:14   differentiate themselves the problem [TS]

00:10:17   with something like facebook is that [TS]

00:10:18   Facebook in a way is sort of like the [TS]

00:10:20   WeChat of the West where you know if [TS]

00:10:24   it's the most used app and it from a lot [TS]

00:10:27   of people it is and it does all the same [TS]

00:10:30   things in mostly the same ways on iOS [TS]

00:10:33   and Android it's a lot easier for [TS]

00:10:36   somebody to switch from an iPhone to [TS]

00:10:38   Android if their most important app just [TS]

00:10:41   works exactly the same way and lets them [TS]

00:10:43   do all the same things and it's [TS]

00:10:45   interesting because the web arguably [TS]

00:10:46   helped Apple at a time when they were [TS]

00:10:48   very far behind in terms of just market [TS]

00:10:50   share and and mine share with PC but the [TS]

00:10:53   web let them it compete you could just [TS]

00:10:56   have a web browser and you would have [TS]

00:10:57   access to all these things and it did [TS]

00:10:58   ease the the transition back to Mac but [TS]

00:11:01   it goes that door goes both [TS]

00:11:02   and it can let people write you this [TS]

00:11:04   quickly so let them in right it was it [TS]

00:11:06   that sort of cross-platform parody that [TS]

00:11:11   the web created was helpful to Apple [TS]

00:11:14   when Apple was struggling but it's [TS]

00:11:17   detrimental to Apple [TS]

00:11:19   now that Apple's in a position of [TS]

00:11:21   strength and it's interesting because [TS]

00:11:22   there's different layers of abstraction [TS]

00:11:23   where Facebook abstracts away a lot of [TS]

00:11:25   the operating system and you're just [TS]

00:11:26   interfacing because for a normal person [TS]

00:11:27   the interface is the app and the [TS]

00:11:29   interface is the hardware it's the face [TS]

00:11:30   that they literally the face that they [TS]

00:11:32   see and they work with and you can [TS]

00:11:33   change all the plumbing behind it and [TS]

00:11:35   they may not notice but if you change [TS]

00:11:36   one button on an interface you'll get [TS]

00:11:38   complaints or you know people will tell [TS]

00:11:40   you about it and there's voicemail [TS]

00:11:43   assistance to where you use Siri for [TS]

00:11:44   example which totally disintermediate [TS]

00:11:46   schoo --gel and all they see is query is [TS]

00:11:47   coming from Apple and it's really regard [TS]

00:11:49   Apple could switch the plumbing for that [TS]

00:11:51   and then Alexa inter mediate things and [TS]

00:11:53   it's almost like this battle for who can [TS]

00:11:55   be the final point of the user interface [TS]

00:11:56   and that's the experience that becomes [TS]

00:11:58   sticky right and you know and Facebook [TS]

00:12:01   is doing which had some other things you [TS]

00:12:02   know with messenger and stuff where [TS]

00:12:03   there's sort of apps within apps and [TS]

00:12:06   it's sort of this sort of it's a sort of [TS]

00:12:07   thing that Apple it's in its in its way [TS]

00:12:11   has tried to discourage in the App Store [TS]

00:12:13   all along right like they were never [TS]

00:12:17   going to allow say it's part of the [TS]

00:12:21   whole flash thing in the early years [TS]

00:12:22   when that was contentious and when adobe [TS]

00:12:24   first had a sort of flash to native iOS [TS]

00:12:28   development chain and Apple like put the [TS]

00:12:32   kibosh on it it was sort of you know [TS]

00:12:36   what I'm sure they're it strategically [TS]

00:12:38   there were multiple reasons but one of [TS]

00:12:39   them was they were never going to allow [TS]

00:12:41   something like an Adobe app that when [TS]

00:12:43   you open the app gives you like a [TS]

00:12:45   secondary homepage of flash based games [TS]

00:12:47   that you can play right you can't have [TS]

00:12:49   an app store within the App Store except [TS]

00:12:52   that if you already have a certain [TS]

00:12:55   momentum and size and importance like [TS]

00:12:59   Facebook and like WeChat has in China [TS]

00:13:01   you can kind of get away from it you [TS]

00:13:04   know get away with it because Apple [TS]

00:13:05   can't really afford they can't say we're [TS]

00:13:07   not going to allow we chat on the iPhone [TS]

00:13:09   in China and they can't say we're not [TS]

00:13:11   going to allow Facebook on the iPhone [TS]

00:13:13   yeah people just buy something else at [TS]

00:13:16   that point [TS]

00:13:16   right but so you know they even talk [TS]

00:13:18   about apps like you know Facebook has [TS]

00:13:20   things they call apps that you can have [TS]

00:13:22   within messenger and like if you and I [TS]

00:13:24   started a new chat app and came out with [TS]

00:13:27   it and we said that there were apps you [TS]

00:13:30   could have within the app it would not [TS]

00:13:31   it would not make it through approval [TS]

00:13:34   that in the iOS App Store our probably [TS]

00:13:38   wouldn't um it's just something that [TS]

00:13:41   some you know a company like Facebook [TS]

00:13:43   that has that sort of what would you [TS]

00:13:46   call it stature yeah well it also blurs [TS]

00:13:48   the web services line because like Apple [TS]

00:13:49   wouldn't blink with just like you go to [TS]

00:13:51   google.com and there's your Gmail and [TS]

00:13:52   your Google Calendar those are just [TS]

00:13:53   normal web experiences and they've done [TS]

00:13:56   that they but they've packaged those [TS]

00:13:57   things up inside chat clients or inside [TS]

00:13:59   social networks instead of having them [TS]

00:14:01   as a bunch of standalone URLs and that [TS]

00:14:03   gives a very different experience and [TS]

00:14:04   pull you a lot more compelling [TS]

00:14:05   experience right and you know one of the [TS]

00:14:08   ways that Facebook is sort of [TS]

00:14:09   threatening to Apple is in theory like I [TS]

00:14:12   don't think this would happen I think [TS]

00:14:13   it's you know so far it's actually more [TS]

00:14:16   likely the other way around [TS]

00:14:17   where something like you know Facebook's [TS]

00:14:19   subsidiary Instagram was iOS only four [TS]

00:14:22   years before it came out for for Android [TS]

00:14:25   but if in theory Facebook somehow got [TS]

00:14:30   better it was a better experience on [TS]

00:14:32   Android than it is on the iPhone that's [TS]

00:14:34   a threat to Apple if people's favorite [TS]

00:14:37   app and most used app is Facebook and [TS]

00:14:39   word spreads around that oh but you [TS]

00:14:40   can't do the cool new x y&z that all [TS]

00:14:44   your friends who have Android phones are [TS]

00:14:45   doing on Facebook unless you get an [TS]

00:14:46   Android phone like that's Facebook is so [TS]

00:14:49   big and so popular that if something [TS]

00:14:50   like that happened hypothetically that's [TS]

00:14:53   a problem for Apple yeah I don't want to [TS]

00:14:55   real it'll get the whole App Store thing [TS]

00:14:56   but when you look at it if you look at [TS]

00:14:57   the App Store you look at Google Play [TS]

00:14:58   for example Google play's offers [TS]

00:15:00   freedoms and features that a lot of App [TS]

00:15:02   Store developers have been wanting for [TS]

00:15:03   years but you can't really point to [TS]

00:15:05   those two things on Google Play and say [TS]

00:15:07   those are apps that aren't those are [TS]

00:15:08   transformative apps that are simply not [TS]

00:15:10   possible an iPhone you can get snapchat [TS]

00:15:12   an iPhone you can get uber on iPhone but [TS]

00:15:14   if there was ever a case where an app [TS]

00:15:15   could only exist on Android because the [TS]

00:15:17   policies or capabilities of Google Play [TS]

00:15:19   and the Android ecosystem we're such to [TS]

00:15:21   make it so that would I think be the [TS]

00:15:23   only thing that could really change [TS]

00:15:24   Apple's outlook on how all that thing on [TS]

00:15:26   how iOS and the App Store works right if [TS]

00:15:29   you really think about it [TS]

00:15:30   it's apples uh they have control over [TS]

00:15:38   the AppStore that the software vendors [TS]

00:15:42   haven't had previously over their [TS]

00:15:44   platforms right that they didn't have [TS]

00:15:46   over the Mac because you could you know [TS]

00:15:47   you can install any app you want on the [TS]

00:15:50   Mac and so technically yes they could [TS]

00:15:54   ban anything but practically speaking [TS]

00:15:55   they don't really have they have lots of [TS]

00:15:58   control but they don't really have total [TS]

00:15:59   control like there's only so far that [TS]

00:16:01   they can push Facebook on if Facebook is [TS]

00:16:04   doing shady stuff behind the scenes like [TS]

00:16:06   they have in the past like when I use [TS]

00:16:08   the audio api Zoar right what yeah you [TS]

00:16:11   know like they you know that was one of [TS]

00:16:13   them like where where in the over the [TS]

00:16:15   years when you look and say well why in [TS]

00:16:16   the world is Facebook doing so much in [TS]

00:16:18   the background and how are they doing it [TS]

00:16:19   with there's rules of you know that apps [TS]

00:16:23   get killed in the background and [TS]

00:16:24   Facebook at one point one of the things [TS]

00:16:26   they did it is they they were playing if [TS]

00:16:30   there was an API so that an app that's [TS]

00:16:32   playing audio can keep playing it in the [TS]

00:16:34   background indefinitely and it won't get [TS]

00:16:35   killed because if you let's say playing [TS]

00:16:37   a podcast and you're not you're doing [TS]

00:16:40   other things on your phone like you're [TS]

00:16:41   going through email and browsing the web [TS]

00:16:43   while you're listening to the podcast [TS]

00:16:44   you don't want your podcast player to [TS]

00:16:46   get killed by iOS because it's [TS]

00:16:47   quote-unquote in the background because [TS]

00:16:49   you're you're getting something from it [TS]

00:16:50   it's playing audio so Facebook use that [TS]

00:16:54   API to play completely silent audio [TS]

00:16:57   track so that they could keep going in [TS]

00:17:00   the background while they do other [TS]

00:17:02   things like waiting for notifications [TS]

00:17:04   and whatever else that are doing it is [TS]

00:17:07   almost as egregious as when they had to [TS]

00:17:08   hamburger buttons on both sides of the [TS]

00:17:09   app all right I'd say that this was [TS]

00:17:12   worse I do hamburger buttons don't run [TS]

00:17:14   your battery down but it so in this [TS]

00:17:15   problem still exists like I think was a [TS]

00:17:17   month ago people started complaining [TS]

00:17:18   about the same issue with Pokemon go and [TS]

00:17:20   I started investigating and if you go it [TS]

00:17:21   says we're like two or three hours on [TS]

00:17:23   the background audio which is not [TS]

00:17:25   something that any rat app besides a [TS]

00:17:27   streaming client to ever present all [TS]

00:17:29   right you should get jettisoned [TS]

00:17:30   immediately right and so Facebook can [TS]

00:17:33   get away with stuff like that in a way [TS]

00:17:35   that other companies can't the other [TS]

00:17:37   good example of that I mean I don't want [TS]

00:17:38   to tie too many stories together it's [TS]

00:17:40   but while we're on it is the [TS]

00:17:43   a story that came out of a few weeks ago [TS]

00:17:45   about uber yeah getting caught by Apple [TS]

00:17:51   we could save that though maybe we [TS]

00:17:53   should save that forever from the Zurich [TS]

00:17:55   so anyway iPhone in China what else what [TS]

00:17:57   else we have to say about that well I [TS]

00:18:00   think just beyond China is that Tim Cook [TS]

00:18:01   used the same sort of wording when he [TS]

00:18:03   spoke about iPad and said that you know [TS]

00:18:05   I large screen iPads were up sales of [TS]

00:18:09   all our screen iPads were up when [TS]

00:18:10   overall iPad sales were down again and [TS]

00:18:12   that sort of was pointing the finger [TS]

00:18:14   right at the iPad Mini yeah I think so [TS]

00:18:16   that I think the reading between the [TS]

00:18:19   lines on that that is a good that did [TS]

00:18:21   strike me to reading between the lines [TS]

00:18:22   on that and also looking at the revenue [TS]

00:18:25   number yeah which wasn't really up [TS]

00:18:28   either like like for example for the Mac [TS]

00:18:34   sales unit sales were up 4% good [TS]

00:18:37   year-over-year from the same three [TS]

00:18:38   months last year but revenue is up 14% [TS]

00:18:41   yeah so 4% units 14% revenue that tells [TS]

00:18:47   me that the new MacBook Pros are selling [TS]

00:18:50   pretty well yeah because that's the only [TS]

00:18:52   thing that's new in the lineup and the [TS]

00:18:55   ASP s are higher on those models and the [TS]

00:18:57   ASP s are higher on those models and so [TS]

00:18:59   you know that it's you know if you're if [TS]

00:19:02   there's any concern out there that the [TS]

00:19:04   sort of mixed reviews those MacBook Pros [TS]

00:19:06   got it doesn't seem like it's had an [TS]

00:19:07   adverse effect on sales seems like the [TS]

00:19:09   opposite that they're actually proving [TS]

00:19:10   to be pretty popular because they've [TS]

00:19:12   driven the revenue per unit up but with [TS]

00:19:17   the iPad with them saying and again you [TS]

00:19:19   know it those those analyst calls are [TS]

00:19:22   you know they can't lie on them or else [TS]

00:19:25   they're committing securities fraud like [TS]

00:19:27   they're very very careful I mean you [TS]

00:19:29   know because you got you read the [TS]

00:19:30   transcript and read every word I mean [TS]

00:19:32   it's not loosey-goosey talk no and they [TS]

00:19:35   are well prepared they have every fact [TS]

00:19:37   in front of them before they get on that [TS]

00:19:38   microphone right so if they say I mean [TS]

00:19:42   again they don't they you know in the [TS]

00:19:45   actual PDF data document for the [TS]

00:19:47   quarterly numbers they they give you [TS]

00:19:50   units per product line like just for [TS]

00:19:53   iPad and their revenue for the product [TS]

00:19:55   line and that's it and so the [TS]

00:19:56   they don't break down in the old days [TS]

00:19:58   like ten years ago they used to break [TS]

00:20:00   down like for example Mac sales by [TS]

00:20:02   desktop and notebook but they don't have [TS]

00:20:05   any breakdown like that for iPads like [TS]

00:20:06   between big and small but if they say on [TS]

00:20:08   the call the big ones are up it but they [TS]

00:20:11   must be up all right like it's either [TS]

00:20:13   that or they're committing securities [TS]

00:20:14   fraud but given that that everything was [TS]

00:20:17   still down that must mean that iPad Mini [TS]

00:20:19   sales have just dropped off the face of [TS]

00:20:21   the earth which makes sense given the [TS]

00:20:22   event of the larger phones and the lack [TS]

00:20:25   of updates to the iPad Mini platform [TS]

00:20:26   yeah I'd sort of a chicken and egg [TS]

00:20:28   question for me is it are they not even [TS]

00:20:32   updating the iPad Mini because people [TS]

00:20:35   aren't buying the iPad Mini or people [TS]

00:20:36   not buying the iPad Mini because they [TS]

00:20:38   haven't updated the iPad Mini in a while [TS]

00:20:39   this is this is a bit of a tangent but I [TS]

00:20:41   went to a mutual friend of ours sort of [TS]

00:20:43   potted us about Mac OS server the other [TS]

00:20:46   day so I went to pick up a Mac Mini so [TS]

00:20:48   that we can write a series of articles [TS]

00:20:49   and I more about the benefits of Mac OS [TS]

00:20:50   server and I went to the Apple store I [TS]

00:20:53   bought it took it home and it was [TS]

00:20:55   running L cap much I mean that to me [TS]

00:20:59   shows is not a huge turnover rate on Mac [TS]

00:21:01   minis we talked about how Mac Mini is a [TS]

00:21:03   languishing product it's the same [TS]

00:21:04   chicken and the egg problem but that [TS]

00:21:05   sort of gave me an indicator about how [TS]

00:21:07   few Mac minis might actually be moving [TS]

00:21:09   it's pretty telling uh [TS]

00:21:18   so trying ELQ be funny if it opened it [TS]

00:21:23   up and it was running like tiger or [TS]

00:21:25   something like oh that'd be great right [TS]

00:21:26   sky lady old office telling us it's like [TS]

00:21:30   how old is this uh PowerPC ABS uh trying [TS]

00:21:36   to think anything else from the [TS]

00:21:37   quarterly results services are way up [TS]

00:21:40   which is as is predicted I mean they've [TS]

00:21:43   been saying this for a while that hey [TS]

00:21:45   we're you know we're hell-bent on [TS]

00:21:47   services and it's showing in the results [TS]

00:21:52   and it's repeatable revenue from the [TS]

00:21:53   same customer base though it's sort of [TS]

00:21:55   the revenue that Wall Street likes [TS]

00:21:56   because you like we saw in China you [TS]

00:21:58   can't guarantee someone's going to buy [TS]

00:21:59   the next iPhone but are they're paying [TS]

00:22:00   you subscription revenue you have a [TS]

00:22:02   certain amount of period you can look [TS]

00:22:03   forward to that revenue well and I think [TS]

00:22:05   I think the other thing that and it ties [TS]

00:22:07   into by arguing [TS]

00:22:09   on the software being more important [TS]

00:22:10   than the hardware in terms of not in any [TS]

00:22:14   particular quarter but in the long run [TS]

00:22:16   of having a loyal customer base that [TS]

00:22:19   when they go to replace their blank [TS]

00:22:21   whether it's their watch or whether it's [TS]

00:22:23   their phone or whether it's their laptop [TS]

00:22:25   if they've already got an Apple one [TS]

00:22:27   they're going to buy another Apple one [TS]

00:22:29   yeah and to have the services revenue is [TS]

00:22:34   the sign that they're creating new ways [TS]

00:22:36   that make more stickiness in that regard [TS]

00:22:39   yeah I mean it's good in both directions [TS]

00:22:41   too and I think they've even said this [TS]

00:22:42   on the call is that you not in these [TS]

00:22:44   terms though is that you can either [TS]

00:22:45   double your amount of customers or you [TS]

00:22:47   can double the amount of revenue you get [TS]

00:22:48   from your customers and both of them [TS]

00:22:49   result in substantial increases and as [TS]

00:22:51   Apple starts to reach those those big [TS]

00:22:53   numbers where it's really hard to start [TS]

00:22:55   opening up new iPhone markets you've got [TS]

00:22:56   Verizon you've got international [TS]

00:22:57   carriers you've got China Mobile getting [TS]

00:22:59   people on to higher revenue streams with [TS]

00:23:01   things like subscription services just [TS]

00:23:02   creates more value from each customer [TS]

00:23:04   all right and I think it's important too [TS]

00:23:06   because Apple is if Apple is Apple [TS]

00:23:09   they're never going to they're never [TS]

00:23:12   going to have market share like monopoly [TS]

00:23:14   market share of these products because [TS]

00:23:16   they're just they just does it's just [TS]

00:23:18   not what Apple does is make products [TS]

00:23:19   that are so low-priced [TS]

00:23:22   as to you know take over the commodity [TS]

00:23:25   level market I mean it just it wouldn't [TS]

00:23:27   an Apple that tried to do that would no [TS]

00:23:29   longer be recognizable as the Apple we [TS]

00:23:31   know there's certain markets they just [TS]

00:23:33   choose not to compete in right and you [TS]

00:23:35   know it's you know whatever percentage [TS]

00:23:37   of the PC market they have four five six [TS]

00:23:40   10% whatever you want to call it you [TS]

00:23:42   know their market of the phone you know [TS]

00:23:45   is higher than significantly higher than [TS]

00:23:47   that but it still is a minority and not [TS]

00:23:50   even close to 50% it's you know even in [TS]

00:23:53   the most popular iPhone countries it's [TS]

00:23:55   you know 20% something like that is [TS]

00:23:57   where we see the differential between [TS]

00:23:59   the market share and their profit share [TS]

00:24:00   right and you know being able to get [TS]

00:24:02   more money out of the existing customers [TS]

00:24:04   is a path to growth that is it lets them [TS]

00:24:08   still be Apple there was one other thing [TS]

00:24:10   that I thought was really interesting [TS]

00:24:11   and that's when he was talking about [TS]

00:24:12   Apple watch and they still won't give [TS]

00:24:14   numbers they did the Amazon like thing [TS]

00:24:15   where they said we had almost twice the [TS]

00:24:17   amount of sales as last year so X was [TS]

00:24:19   last year this was 2x but then Tim Cook [TS]

00:24:21   said that if you take Apple watch [TS]

00:24:22   you combine it with air pods and with [TS]

00:24:24   beats although it wasn't specific which [TS]

00:24:26   beats products just two w one or all of [TS]

00:24:27   them that might be halogen 500 company [TS]

00:24:30   yeah my guess is this there's a large [TS]

00:24:31   amount of beats money in there it makes [TS]

00:24:33   a fortune 500 company yeah yeah well [TS]

00:24:39   let's take a break and we'll come back [TS]

00:24:40   to that cuz I have some comments on them [TS]

00:24:42   the watch but let me take a break and [TS]

00:24:46   thank our first sponsor it's a good [TS]

00:24:48   friend of ours you know [TS]

00:24:50   Squarespace Squarespace is the place to [TS]

00:24:54   go if you need to make a new website I [TS]

00:24:56   say this all the time they sponsored the [TS]

00:24:58   show for a long time I'm telling you [TS]

00:25:01   right now next time you have an idea for [TS]

00:25:02   a website any kind of website any [TS]

00:25:05   project that needs a website a podcast a [TS]

00:25:07   store try it at Squarespace first you [TS]

00:25:11   will be if you haven't recently or never [TS]

00:25:14   have you will be surprised at how easy [TS]

00:25:16   and flexible Squarespace is to create a [TS]

00:25:18   website how non totally non-technical [TS]

00:25:21   you have to be you just do it right [TS]

00:25:24   there in the website you see the website [TS]

00:25:26   you pick from a template it looks like [TS]

00:25:29   it you see it right there on your screen [TS]

00:25:30   and then if you want to move elements [TS]

00:25:32   around you just drag them around if you [TS]

00:25:35   are technically savvy enough to want to [TS]

00:25:37   put your own JavaScript in or do some [TS]

00:25:39   modify the CSS or something like that [TS]

00:25:41   you can do it you would be surprised [TS]

00:25:44   here's the other thing too because part [TS]

00:25:46   of the easiness of using Squarespace is [TS]

00:25:47   this ability to pick templates and they [TS]

00:25:49   have so many of them from different [TS]

00:25:50   types of sites and have a [TS]

00:25:51   professional-looking website but I hear [TS]

00:25:54   that if I hear that if I'm listening to [TS]

00:25:56   this show and I hear that my thought [TS]

00:25:57   turns to well I don't want to have a [TS]

00:25:59   cookie cutter site that looks like [TS]

00:26:00   everybody else's like say back in the [TS]

00:26:03   day when you'd get like a blogspot blog [TS]

00:26:06   and you'd know it was a blogspot blog [TS]

00:26:08   because they were like two or three [TS]

00:26:09   templates to choose from and everybody [TS]

00:26:11   had one of those Squarespace has so many [TS]

00:26:13   templates to choose from and the [TS]

00:26:14   templates they have you can modify them [TS]

00:26:16   so easily to customize them to your own [TS]

00:26:18   brand that you don't even know when [TS]

00:26:20   you're on a Squarespace site it's [TS]

00:26:21   unbelievable to me how many sites when [TS]

00:26:23   you start poking around and looking in [TS]

00:26:25   the source code and you see that it's [TS]

00:26:26   Squarespace site you're like wow I never [TS]

00:26:28   would have guessed that because it looks [TS]

00:26:29   so uniquely branded to this restaurant [TS]

00:26:33   or a clothing company or whatever it is [TS]

00:26:36   you're trying to make so next time you [TS]

00:26:39   make a website build it with Squarespace [TS]

00:26:41   and use the code Gruber my last name and [TS]

00:26:44   when you pay you will save 10% off your [TS]

00:26:48   first order remember that next time you [TS]

00:26:49   need to make a website so I I sometimes [TS]

00:26:54   I worry that I repeat myself too often [TS]

00:26:56   Renae that I've got like three or four [TS]

00:26:59   columns and I just can't keep writing [TS]

00:27:00   them all over and over again but the one [TS]

00:27:03   I just wrote a couple weeks ago was some [TS]

00:27:06   I forget the guys name but somebody [TS]

00:27:07   wrote a column that the Apple watch [TS]

00:27:09   hasn't changed Apple it hasn't done [TS]

00:27:11   anything for Apple at all and I think if [TS]

00:27:15   you read between the lines of his [TS]

00:27:16   argument it's that it is more or less [TS]

00:27:18   that it the I Apple watch is nowhere [TS]

00:27:21   near I phone size product and probably [TS]

00:27:24   never will be and therefore it's it's [TS]

00:27:26   meaningless to Apple or close to [TS]

00:27:28   meaningless and I just think that's such [TS]

00:27:32   a wrong way to look at it it's like [TS]

00:27:34   there's there really might there might [TS]

00:27:36   never be another iPhone size product in [TS]

00:27:38   any industry let alone Apple like Apple [TS]

00:27:40   may not ever have an iPhone size hit it [TS]

00:27:43   may well be that no other company has an [TS]

00:27:45   iPhone size hit in terms of just how [TS]

00:27:48   much money and how many people around [TS]

00:27:50   the world the market size is and so I [TS]

00:27:54   ain't judged by that nothing Apple ever [TS]

00:27:57   does will succeed by that merit and I [TS]

00:28:00   think if Apple internally took that [TS]

00:28:02   mindset it would paralyze the company [TS]

00:28:03   yeah yeah I mean i phone creates more [TS]

00:28:07   profit than companies that have [TS]

00:28:08   oligopoly control over scarce fossil [TS]

00:28:10   fuel resources and people forget that [TS]

00:28:12   perspective and they create this false [TS]

00:28:14   equivalency where everything for Apple [TS]

00:28:16   has to be measured by the success of [TS]

00:28:18   iPhone and then everything is seemed to [TS]

00:28:19   be lacking where for other companies you [TS]

00:28:21   could sell three surface books and it's [TS]

00:28:23   a rousing success you get 19 articles [TS]

00:28:25   out of that when we saw that I think I [TS]

00:28:27   forget if it was Neil Seibert or Ben [TS]

00:28:29   Benedict Evans who tweeted that based on [TS]

00:28:32   their metrics Apple watch vastly outsold [TS]

00:28:35   by it was a factor of two or three [TS]

00:28:37   Amazon's Alexa echo product and yet [TS]

00:28:41   people were telling how great and [TS]

00:28:42   transformative echo was and what a [TS]

00:28:44   dismal failure Apple watch was and it [TS]

00:28:45   was [TS]

00:28:46   lutely out of whack with anything [TS]

00:28:47   assembling any resemblance to facts [TS]

00:28:49   right it's it's graded on such a bizarre [TS]

00:28:52   curve and it's a perfect example because [TS]

00:28:54   Alexa like every other Amazon product [TS]

00:28:59   the echo doesn't get numbers reported [TS]

00:29:01   and Apple watch gets a Bezos curve of [TS]

00:29:04   twice as much as ever [TS]

00:29:07   yeah this games really important [TS]

00:29:09   technology you can kind of at least with [TS]

00:29:11   Apple watch it's in that other category [TS]

00:29:13   and you can there is a revenue number [TS]

00:29:15   for the you know the it's like the [TS]

00:29:18   headphones and beats and Apple TV and [TS]

00:29:26   Apple watch yeah [TS]

00:29:28   and given a Apple TV is almost certainly [TS]

00:29:33   pretty static that Gator hasn't been an [TS]

00:29:35   update there hasn't been a big [TS]

00:29:37   promotional push there hasn't been a big [TS]

00:29:38   change you know since the fall 2015 when [TS]

00:29:41   the current Apple Apple TV came out so [TS]

00:29:44   you know I it's pretty reasonable to [TS]

00:29:46   assume Apple TV is flat at best earpods [TS]

00:29:50   is a little hard to gauge for this [TS]

00:29:51   quarter because they're obviously [TS]

00:29:52   popular enough that they're backordered [TS]

00:29:55   but there's something strange yeah it's [TS]

00:29:56   hard to connect just how constrained [TS]

00:30:00   they are and I think you pointed out [TS]

00:30:02   that they're not sold at a huge margin [TS]

00:30:04   there right sold as cheaply as possible [TS]

00:30:06   well the revenue number though might be [TS]

00:30:08   big because they don't you know they're [TS]

00:30:09   not going to break that down by profit [TS]

00:30:10   but I have reason to believe that [TS]

00:30:12   they're theirs they're not a big [TS]

00:30:13   moneymaker at this point and it makes [TS]

00:30:16   sense that obviously it must be hard to [TS]

00:30:18   make because the you know that's four [TS]

00:30:20   months in and there's still six weeks [TS]

00:30:21   out if you go to order them as an aside [TS]

00:30:24   on that for anybody looking to buy our [TS]

00:30:26   pods I've every wrote about that on [TS]

00:30:28   during fireball a couple times recently [TS]

00:30:30   and a couple people have written to me [TS]

00:30:31   and said that they scored earpods [TS]

00:30:35   it on the fly recently from like 18 t [TS]

00:30:40   stores they're like Verizon stores that [TS]

00:30:43   there's they're they're showing up if [TS]

00:30:45   you're you know if you really want them [TS]

00:30:47   and you don't want to wait six weeks [TS]

00:30:48   try-try stores like AT&T and Best Buy [TS]

00:30:50   and stuff like that and you might just [TS]

00:30:52   get lucky and get them before you would [TS]

00:30:54   if you place an order at Apple comm so [TS]

00:30:56   that's my my tip for anybody out there [TS]

00:30:57   looking for airport [TS]

00:30:59   but you know I I think it but the [TS]

00:31:01   numbers from those that Apple reported [TS]

00:31:03   another backup you know the idea that [TS]

00:31:05   Apple watch is selling pretty well and [TS]

00:31:08   personally I mean this is obviously very [TS]

00:31:10   unscientific but personally I see more I [TS]

00:31:15   see more and more Apple watches on real [TS]

00:31:16   people out in the streets than ever [TS]

00:31:18   before I see a lot an awful lot of them [TS]

00:31:20   I went to the deli the other day just to [TS]

00:31:23   order a Montreal smoked meat sandwich [TS]

00:31:24   and the waiter was wearing an Apple [TS]

00:31:26   watch and I asked him highlight and he [TS]

00:31:27   said best thing in the world well I'll [TS]

00:31:28   have our phones with us when we work but [TS]

00:31:30   I can still check my text messages on my [TS]

00:31:31   Apple watch now there's a big [TS]

00:31:34   construction project across the street [TS]

00:31:36   from from my house and I just I noticed [TS]

00:31:39   the other day that the guy who controls [TS]

00:31:41   the crane is wearing an Apple watch and [TS]

00:31:45   I thought that you know it might be the [TS]

00:31:46   same that that might be the exact reason [TS]

00:31:49   for that is you know that he you know [TS]

00:31:51   while he's doing this he can't have his [TS]

00:31:52   phone out but he if he glances at his [TS]

00:31:55   wrist he can see you know text [TS]

00:31:56   notifications I don't know but just [TS]

00:31:58   seems you know I see him all the time I [TS]

00:32:00   see a lawful autumn it backs up daily [TS]

00:32:02   and again not like it's as popular as [TS]

00:32:03   the iPhone but nothing is really [TS]

00:32:06   literally but I sure see him a lot I [TS]

00:32:09   really do it does a subset of important [TS]

00:32:12   brief tasks for you in a way that saves [TS]

00:32:14   you having to go to your iPhone the same [TS]

00:32:15   way your iPhone does a subset a really [TS]

00:32:17   important task that stays you having to [TS]

00:32:18   go to your Mac yeah but why is that [TS]

00:32:20   important those are to you while we're [TS]

00:32:21   talking about Apple watch we can tie in [TS]

00:32:23   the other what story from this week [TS]

00:32:24   where Apple Insider discovered that a [TS]

00:32:29   couple of big-name apps iPhone apps have [TS]

00:32:32   dropped their Apple watch counterparts [TS]

00:32:34   was it Amazon eBay and yet the one up to [TS]

00:32:38   me was most telling was Google Maps yeah [TS]

00:32:41   I have to admit when I first heard this [TS]

00:32:42   story my guess and I checked into it but [TS]

00:32:44   I couldn't get an answer was that it [TS]

00:32:46   happened at the same time they launched [TS]

00:32:47   their iMessage app I just thought they [TS]

00:32:48   screwed up something in their bundle and [TS]

00:32:50   enabled the iMessage app and disabled [TS]

00:32:51   the Apple watch app by accident and I [TS]

00:32:54   don't know if that's true or they're [TS]

00:32:55   going to be updating it for our watch OS [TS]

00:32:56   four or whatever but their state their [TS]

00:32:57   subsequent statement made it sound like [TS]

00:32:59   it was it was returning it was not a [TS]

00:33:00   deliberate removal well the but the [TS]

00:33:03   telling part is that it it seemingly [TS]

00:33:05   happened weeks ago and nobody really [TS]

00:33:07   noticed a smartie noticed right away and [TS]

00:33:09   she's like what's happening here and [TS]

00:33:11   started looking into it but you [TS]

00:33:12   wasn't huge story now I just think [TS]

00:33:15   though I really do I think and I think [TS]

00:33:17   it's you know I think the emphasis that [TS]

00:33:19   Apple I think Apple is fully aware of [TS]

00:33:21   this based on what they worked on for [TS]

00:33:24   iOS 3 and what how they build it that [TS]

00:33:29   even with the iPhone it was true that [TS]

00:33:32   they'd you know they certainly obviously [TS]

00:33:33   at the outset didn't see how much a how [TS]

00:33:36   big a deal it would be there be an app [TS]

00:33:38   platform they might have had the inkling [TS]

00:33:41   but it certainly you know and I think [TS]

00:33:43   it's played out in ways that that even [TS]

00:33:46   they couldn't foresee I don't think [TS]

00:33:48   Apple would have predicted in 2007 that [TS]

00:33:50   the iPhone would become the most [TS]

00:33:52   important and popular camera in the [TS]

00:33:54   world it you know it's you don't know [TS]

00:33:57   you know and I feel like they rolled out [TS]

00:33:59   the Apple watch and obviously I think [TS]

00:34:02   initially thought that apps were going [TS]

00:34:04   to be a bigger part of what might make [TS]

00:34:06   it popular and in real use in even their [TS]

00:34:10   own use like not just surveying users [TS]

00:34:12   but I think you know Apple people using [TS]

00:34:15   the watch themselves that the health [TS]

00:34:17   tracking and the using it as a [TS]

00:34:21   notifications input and output device [TS]

00:34:25   are far more important than the app [TS]

00:34:29   story I think that's absolutely true [TS]

00:34:31   it's almost like they over compensated [TS]

00:34:33   for the lack of an app store at launch [TS]

00:34:34   for iPhone by making sure no matter what [TS]

00:34:36   happens or how poorly it performed they [TS]

00:34:38   had one available for Apple watch and [TS]

00:34:39   almost the the heartbreaking part about [TS]

00:34:42   that is if they launched it at the same [TS]

00:34:44   time that extensibility was launched and [TS]

00:34:46   extensibility was one of the [TS]

00:34:47   technologies that allowed them to have [TS]

00:34:48   apps on the Apple watch but they at the [TS]

00:34:50   same time that like a you've written [TS]

00:34:51   this really well like what HTTP what web [TS]

00:34:55   services were to websites where they [TS]

00:34:57   basically didn't need a website anymore [TS]

00:34:58   you could just provide an API extensions [TS]

00:35:00   were like that to apps you didn't [TS]

00:35:01   necessarily need a binary blob on the [TS]

00:35:03   same device you could have features and [TS]

00:35:05   functionality that could be on the same [TS]

00:35:06   device but what could be projected or [TS]

00:35:08   surfaced in many different places in [TS]

00:35:10   many different ways and they had that [TS]

00:35:12   with Apple watch but instead they sort [TS]

00:35:14   of took this mentality of binary blobs [TS]

00:35:16   where you had to have an app on a [TS]

00:35:17   carousel screen that you could tap with [TS]

00:35:18   your finger to launch and we've seen [TS]

00:35:20   them move away from that but I think in [TS]

00:35:22   hindsight we're going to see that the [TS]

00:35:23   app the watch has to be a [TS]

00:35:25   function uh so a feature device and not [TS]

00:35:28   an app device yeah and I think you know [TS]

00:35:31   it and it I played around I don't want [TS]

00:35:34   to he's a friend and I appreciate the [TS]

00:35:37   feature but Marco Arment has worked on a [TS]

00:35:39   much improved watch app for overcast and [TS]

00:35:43   I know that he spent an awful lot of [TS]

00:35:46   time in the last few months on it and it [TS]

00:35:50   shipped recently and then over the [TS]

00:35:52   weekend I thought well I was I was was [TS]

00:35:54   gonna go for a run and I thought yeah I [TS]

00:35:56   in theory I would love to go with just [TS]

00:35:58   my watch and air pods um and not have to [TS]

00:36:03   figure out a way to carry my phone [TS]

00:36:06   because there's just no great way I've [TS]

00:36:09   got some kind of like belt like thing [TS]

00:36:10   that I put underneath my shirt where I [TS]

00:36:12   can strap it in [TS]

00:36:13   but I'd you know I don't want to run [TS]

00:36:14   with it in my pockets I don't like using [TS]

00:36:16   an armband there's no good way to go [TS]

00:36:18   with a phone um so I thought well I'm [TS]

00:36:20   participer fect head I'm not just trying [TS]

00:36:22   this watch app of overcast out I'm you [TS]

00:36:26   know I actually actually want this [TS]

00:36:29   feature I would love to do this and it [TS]

00:36:31   was absolutely horrible it's just [TS]

00:36:33   terrible it was hard to get it was hard [TS]

00:36:34   to get it installed on the watch in the [TS]

00:36:36   first place which shouldn't be the case [TS]

00:36:37   it was like that from the watch app on [TS]

00:36:41   the phone it said installing and it just [TS]

00:36:43   said installing dot dot forever and then [TS]

00:36:47   once it was installed getting an audio [TS]

00:36:49   it's like getting audio from the phone [TS]

00:36:51   to the watch takes forever and even once [TS]

00:36:54   it did and I got a I got a podcast over [TS]

00:36:56   there to listen to and I went to play I [TS]

00:36:58   got my air pod sync to it the audio was [TS]

00:37:01   like whisper quiet and and I'd you know [TS]

00:37:03   I mentioned this to Marco and it's [TS]

00:37:05   obviously not always the case and other [TS]

00:37:06   people are saying it happens sometimes [TS]

00:37:07   but he has no idea why uh it just and it [TS]

00:37:11   was I wasted like 45 minutes and I was [TS]

00:37:13   just like you know what screw it I'm [TS]

00:37:14   just going with my phone like I always [TS]

00:37:17   do it was so much better I mean it's [TS]

00:37:20   just it's just too finicky it's way too [TS]

00:37:22   finicky whereas there are other things [TS]

00:37:24   like do you ever use this app you ever [TS]

00:37:28   use the service nuzzle and use these egl [TS]

00:37:31   I've seen it yeah I've used it on the [TS]

00:37:32   iPhone it's really great it's it's a [TS]

00:37:34   service you sign in with your Twitter [TS]

00:37:35   account and what it does is [TS]

00:37:38   it's really really great if anybody out [TS]

00:37:41   there wants to try it I find a tons of [TS]

00:37:43   stuff that I link to wondering fireball [TS]

00:37:44   from it but what it does is it follows [TS]

00:37:45   your own the people you follow on [TS]

00:37:47   Twitter and when a certain threshold of [TS]

00:37:49   the people you follow have all tweeted [TS]

00:37:51   the same link or a link to the same [TS]

00:37:53   article it gives you a notification [TS]

00:37:54   about it on the assumption that if like [TS]

00:37:56   five people you follow have all tweeted [TS]

00:37:58   the same link to blank you want to know [TS]

00:38:01   about blank and it gives you a [TS]

00:38:02   notification for that and when I first [TS]

00:38:05   heard about it I thought that this is [TS]

00:38:08   going to be something that I'm going to [TS]

00:38:09   try and quickly get rid of because I'm [TS]

00:38:10   sort of sensitive to getting to I don't [TS]

00:38:12   want too many notifications from [TS]

00:38:13   anything I find out whatever algorithm [TS]

00:38:16   nuzzle uses to do this I mean maybe it's [TS]

00:38:19   super simple maybe it's just I don't [TS]

00:38:20   know you know just but just the idea [TS]

00:38:22   that if five of the people I follow on [TS]

00:38:25   Twitter link the same thing I want to [TS]

00:38:27   know about it [TS]

00:38:27   the ratio of interesting links to the [TS]

00:38:32   times they notify me is so high that I [TS]

00:38:34   have no interest in turning it off but [TS]

00:38:38   they don't even have a watch app but the [TS]

00:38:39   notifications go to my watch just [TS]

00:38:41   automatically like you don't you know [TS]

00:38:42   like the the only thing I would want [TS]

00:38:44   from them on my watch they don't even [TS]

00:38:45   need a watch out for because the [TS]

00:38:46   notifications if my phone is in my [TS]

00:38:48   pocket automatically go to my watch it's [TS]

00:38:51   I remember so Ellis was saying that when [TS]

00:38:53   I forget when right watch was introduced [TS]

00:38:55   that he and his opinion developer should [TS]

00:38:57   spend more time making a really awesome [TS]

00:38:58   notification experience and not worry [TS]

00:39:00   about an app at all and I got that turns [TS]

00:39:02   out to be candy advice right so like [TS]

00:39:04   nuzzle doesn't even have a watch app and [TS]

00:39:06   to me the watch app that they are that I [TS]

00:39:08   get is exactly what I want yeah and if [TS]

00:39:11   poor Marcos spent months working on an [TS]

00:39:13   advanced watch app that maybe someday [TS]

00:39:16   will turn into something that's actually [TS]

00:39:18   good and useful on like a future version [TS]

00:39:20   of the wot deck that maybe the [TS]

00:39:21   foundation will be there so that when a [TS]

00:39:23   watch actually gets its own LTE or [TS]

00:39:24   something like that it actually will be [TS]

00:39:27   useful but he spent all this time on it [TS]

00:39:29   and it's I I don't want to use it at all [TS]

00:39:31   even though I use overcast almost every [TS]

00:39:32   day yeah I've tried it I like it it has [TS]

00:39:35   the issues that you mentioned and I [TS]

00:39:36   always have my iPhone with me even if [TS]

00:39:38   I'm out so I haven't had the I haven't [TS]

00:39:40   been forced to use it but it's it's a [TS]

00:39:42   problem that people want solved but it [TS]

00:39:43   is not something that's technically [TS]

00:39:44   solvable right now all right like in all [TS]

00:39:46   honesty i if overcast didn't have a [TS]

00:39:48   watch app it wouldn't matter to me at [TS]

00:39:50   all because the only thing I ever [TS]

00:39:51   do I can do through the now plane anyway [TS]

00:39:53   yeah so I don't know it's I feel like [TS]

00:39:58   there's something that Apple I think [TS]

00:40:01   they're well aware of it that's what I [TS]

00:40:02   think and I think we'll see more I think [TS]

00:40:04   you'll see it go that way yeah I think [TS]

00:40:06   it's a classic example of the you know [TS]

00:40:07   they saw everything is a nail they had [TS]

00:40:09   an app store hammer and then everything [TS]

00:40:10   looked like an app nail to them and in [TS]

00:40:12   hindsight you can look back and say we [TS]

00:40:14   needed a different approach for this [TS]

00:40:15   yeah I think they recognize they have [TS]

00:40:17   known that for over a year and a half [TS]

00:40:18   which is why we saw watch it was three [TS]

00:40:20   and we'll see watch it was four be [TS]

00:40:21   different yeah yeah be interesting to [TS]

00:40:26   see what they do with that [TS]

00:40:27   anything else on quarterly results [TS]

00:40:30   before we move on no I mean I saw at the [TS]

00:40:34   same time he was a Tim Cook was on Jim [TS]

00:40:36   Cramer and said they don't have a watch [TS]

00:40:38   to lose thirty pounds right which I [TS]

00:40:39   don't know where that was from like and [TS]

00:40:43   again and Tim Cook does not strike me as [TS]

00:40:45   a bullshitter right now like he is I if [TS]

00:40:49   he says he lost thirty pounds I think he [TS]

00:40:50   probably lost thirty pounds but I mean [TS]

00:40:53   I've seen him on stage every six months [TS]

00:40:56   for five six years and there was never [TS]

00:41:00   any point where it looked like he put on [TS]

00:41:02   you know or put on our lost thirty [TS]

00:41:04   pounds yeah I mean that's but anyway my [TS]

00:41:07   power to him it just it was amazing um [TS]

00:41:09   what did they Annette it was a pretty [TS]

00:41:11   good interview I mean for you you know a [TS]

00:41:14   you know I give Jim Cramer credit for a [TS]

00:41:17   guy who's not really an Apple person but [TS]

00:41:20   rather a finance person I thought it was [TS]

00:41:23   a pretty informative interview I think [TS]

00:41:26   that this announcement of a billion 1 [TS]

00:41:27   billion dollar fund to promote advanced [TS]

00:41:32   manufacturing jobs in the u.s. is pretty [TS]

00:41:33   interesting that's that's wood cooking [TS]

00:41:35   out the details aren't out yet I think [TS]

00:41:37   he said to come in at the end of May um [TS]

00:41:39   I think so it was it was entirely I mean [TS]

00:41:46   it was super interesting we start to [TS]

00:41:47   decompose interest the relationship that [TS]

00:41:48   Apple has with the administration who is [TS]

00:41:50   heavily pro US jobs and US manufacturing [TS]

00:41:54   all these elements where Apple has a [TS]

00:41:56   massive manufacturing capacity outside [TS]

00:41:58   the US but also a massive amount of [TS]

00:42:00   money which we heard about the call as [TS]

00:42:01   well they want to repatriate and the [TS]

00:42:03   last time that happened was under the [TS]

00:42:04   Bush administration [TS]

00:42:05   this administration might be more [TS]

00:42:06   amenable so I think it's a very careful [TS]

00:42:08   balancing act right and it's a yeah we [TS]

00:42:14   cuz it one thing that has happened in [TS]

00:42:19   recent years is apples had this large [TS]

00:42:23   cash hoard for a long time now although [TS]

00:42:28   the definition of large keeps keeps [TS]

00:42:30   growing letting up the waistband but it [TS]

00:42:33   has changed even though they've sort of [TS]

00:42:35   capped it off now we're like it's not [TS]

00:42:37   really growing so much in rather however [TS]

00:42:40   much it would be growing they just keep [TS]

00:42:41   giving to the the shareholder whatever [TS]

00:42:44   they call it it's growing despite the [TS]

00:42:46   biggest give back and one of the biggest [TS]

00:42:48   give backs of corporate history right [TS]

00:42:49   but one shift that has happened though [TS]

00:42:51   is that their us Holdings have shrunk [TS]

00:42:53   and it's almost entirely overseas what [TS]

00:42:56   they have now is almost entirely [TS]

00:42:58   overseas and so for like this billion [TS]

00:43:00   dollar fund in in the u.s. they're going [TS]

00:43:03   to borrow to get the money rather than [TS]

00:43:04   use it because they don't really have a [TS]

00:43:06   bill you know they have a billion but [TS]

00:43:08   it's it's it I don't have it on me right [TS]

00:43:13   to my to my wallet over in Ireland now [TS]

00:43:17   very true but it'll be interesting to [TS]

00:43:20   see you know what comes to that and it's [TS]

00:43:22   you know it I don't think Apple is a and [TS]

00:43:28   they've been thinking about this for a [TS]

00:43:29   while I mean it and and you know with [TS]

00:43:32   the Mac Pro that was 2013 where they [TS]

00:43:34   announced that it would be assembled in [TS]

00:43:36   the US I mean so it's not like they [TS]

00:43:38   haven't like like all of a sudden just [TS]

00:43:40   with Trump in office they're now looking [TS]

00:43:42   to toe the line on bringing [TS]

00:43:44   manufacturing jobs back to the US but I [TS]

00:43:49   I don't think and I think if there's a [TS]

00:43:50   trumpian aspect to it I don't think it's [TS]

00:43:53   so much about toeing the line or wanting [TS]

00:43:55   to please the Trump administration but [TS]

00:44:00   more a a pragmatic let's make sure we [TS]

00:44:05   don't get caught flat-footed if they [TS]

00:44:07   start a trade war with China or do [TS]

00:44:11   something impose some other you know [TS]

00:44:12   tariffs or something like that like [TS]

00:44:14   let's let's be ready for anything that [TS]

00:44:16   might happen now that the [TS]

00:44:18   somebody with his temperament and his [TS]

00:44:20   his stated policies toward you know [TS]

00:44:22   overseas manufacturing jobs is in office [TS]

00:44:24   it's almost like pre-emptive positioning [TS]

00:44:26   when they bought you know stake in DD in [TS]

00:44:29   China you know because those there's [TS]

00:44:30   certain volatility and that leadership [TS]

00:44:33   as well and it's true I think that was [TS]

00:44:36   back when they were doing the I factory [TS]

00:44:37   Series in New York Times and and that [TS]

00:44:39   was a big story and Apple you know [TS]

00:44:41   making Mac's MacBook Pro sorry Mac Pro's [TS]

00:44:44   in the US was a very good story for that [TS]

00:44:46   2lbs you can see where this goes yeah it [TS]

00:44:50   will be an you know again you can say [TS]

00:44:53   like I saw it on CNBC after after the [TS]

00:44:58   Kramer thing had aired where somebody [TS]

00:45:00   was like you know given apples it you [TS]

00:45:04   know two hundred and fifty billion [TS]

00:45:05   dollar cash holdings and the you know [TS]

00:45:07   their quarterly revenue you know it's [TS]

00:45:11   easy to say a billion dollars isn't that [TS]

00:45:12   much to Apple but still a billion [TS]

00:45:14   dollars is a billion dollars and saying [TS]

00:45:16   you're going to commit a billion dollars [TS]

00:45:17   to assembling you know to advanced [TS]

00:45:19   assembly and manufacturing jobs in the [TS]

00:45:20   US is significant yeah I don't have $250 [TS]

00:45:24   you got to give $1 away still dollar you [TS]

00:45:25   got to give away right and it's you know [TS]

00:45:27   a billion there's a little different [TS]

00:45:29   than one dollar and it's any problem is [TS]

00:45:32   easy to solve provided you're not the [TS]

00:45:33   one in charge of solving it that's what [TS]

00:45:35   the media keeps forgetting I think let [TS]

00:45:41   me take another break here and thank our [TS]

00:45:42   next sponsor it's our good friends at [TS]

00:45:44   Casper you guys know Casper [TS]

00:45:45   they make obsessively engineered [TS]

00:45:48   mattress at a shockingly fair price we [TS]

00:45:50   just bought a new Casper mattress here [TS]

00:45:51   at the Gruber family home our son needed [TS]

00:45:54   a new bed got him a Casper he loves it [TS]

00:45:57   absolutely loves it he literally honest [TS]

00:45:59   to god he was mad at me that I didn't [TS]

00:46:01   get him one sooner it was that we were [TS]

00:46:06   that happy with it he's that happy with [TS]

00:46:08   it it's a great mattress so here's the [TS]

00:46:11   deal there's my favorite thing about [TS]

00:46:12   them they don't make you choose a type [TS]

00:46:15   of mattress when you need a mattress you [TS]

00:46:17   go there you pick a size and that's all [TS]

00:46:19   and then it comes to you and you open it [TS]

00:46:21   up and you've got a mattress how do you [TS]

00:46:24   ship a mattress to somebody guess what [TS]

00:46:25   it's the the fact that they make it out [TS]

00:46:27   of like this [TS]

00:46:28   their own custom blend of like foams it [TS]

00:46:34   comes in a little box little box meaning [TS]

00:46:37   like it might be the biggest package [TS]

00:46:39   that you're going to get this year [TS]

00:46:40   delivered to your house but for a [TS]

00:46:43   mattress it's a surprisingly small box [TS]

00:46:45   and then they have nice instructions on [TS]

00:46:47   the outside they tell you to bring it up [TS]

00:46:48   to the room where you want it first [TS]

00:46:50   don't open it don't open it up [TS]

00:46:52   downstairs go to the bedroom follow [TS]

00:46:55   their instructions you open it up it [TS]

00:46:56   sucks all the air out of the room to [TS]

00:46:58   fill the mattress so be careful be [TS]

00:47:00   careful make sure you you know take a [TS]

00:47:03   deep breath before you open it up and [TS]

00:47:04   there you go you got a mattress and it's [TS]

00:47:06   comfortable and it's nice it's just a [TS]

00:47:08   nice mattress and the price is because [TS]

00:47:10   they sell directly they make them right [TS]

00:47:12   here in the US by the way they make them [TS]

00:47:13   here in the US they sell them to you [TS]

00:47:15   directly there's no middleman there's no [TS]

00:47:17   markup for a retail store or anything [TS]

00:47:18   like that their prices blow away the [TS]

00:47:22   prices for premium mattresses from the [TS]

00:47:24   big-name mattress companies there's just [TS]

00:47:26   no comparison where do you go get yours [TS]

00:47:30   today you try it for a hundred nights in [TS]

00:47:33   your own home with free delivery [TS]

00:47:35   so you don't take my word for it that's [TS]

00:47:37   comfortable go buy one have it delivered [TS]

00:47:40   try it out you've got over three months [TS]

00:47:42   100 nights and if you're not happy with [TS]

00:47:44   it no questions asked they will just [TS]

00:47:46   arrange for someone to come and get it [TS]

00:47:48   out of your house no questions asked go [TS]

00:47:52   to Casper comm slash the talk show and [TS]

00:47:54   use that code the talk show and you will [TS]

00:47:57   save 50 bucks towards any mattress put [TS]

00:48:00   an asterisk right here [TS]

00:48:01   you can't save 50 bucks on their dog [TS]

00:48:03   mattresses I'm sorry because the dog [TS]

00:48:05   mattress is only like a couple hundred [TS]

00:48:06   bucks but if you have a dog and you want [TS]

00:48:09   to get your dog a bed get them a Casper [TS]

00:48:10   they have an amazing amazing dog [TS]

00:48:13   mattress and I keep mentioning it and [TS]

00:48:14   readers keep saying that they bought it [TS]

00:48:16   for their dog and their dog won't get up [TS]

00:48:18   off the mattress so there you go my [TS]

00:48:20   thanks to Caspar makers of fine [TS]

00:48:22   mattresses what else happened recently [TS]

00:48:26   that gets this week at Microsoft had [TS]

00:48:28   their education event and they unveiled [TS]

00:48:29   two things they unveiled on the hardware [TS]

00:48:32   size outside their own this is their [TS]

00:48:35   first true laptop something that's now I [TS]

00:48:36   get detachable tablet type thing that [TS]

00:48:39   they call the surface laptop [TS]

00:48:41   and they unveiled an new operating [TS]

00:48:45   system called Windows 10 ass which do [TS]

00:48:48   you want to talk about first I was going [TS]

00:48:50   to say Joe Belfiore is new blonde hair [TS]

00:48:52   cut Wow he famously windows phone Joe [TS]

00:48:56   Belfiore who went away for a year and [TS]

00:48:58   decided to focus on education then came [TS]

00:48:59   back and is now leading this initiative [TS]

00:49:01   I didn't see that part of the show yeah [TS]

00:49:03   he was I don't think they put him on [TS]

00:49:05   stage which is involved that's why I hit [TS]

00:49:07   my person on stage yeah he was out front [TS]

00:49:09   beforehand I think maybe the hardware [TS]

00:49:11   first because we use their know we had [TS]

00:49:13   Daniel Rubino when my colleagues was [TS]

00:49:15   there Wow I watched the video but I [TS]

00:49:17   really only watched the video for the [TS]

00:49:18   10s part I didn't watch the hardware [TS]

00:49:22   part so what do you want talk about [TS]

00:49:24   first the hardware all right let's talk [TS]

00:49:26   about the hardware it's so interesting [TS]

00:49:28   and I'm gonna start off with this [TS]

00:49:30   because why not it's the talk show if [TS]

00:49:33   this if this laptop had an Apple logo on [TS]

00:49:35   it I think the coverage would have been [TS]

00:49:36   very different [TS]

00:49:37   well we saw how so because this was like [TS]

00:49:41   there was a lot of things about this [TS]

00:49:42   laptop that were very Apple as like the [TS]

00:49:44   design looks almost identical to a [TS]

00:49:45   MacBook Air the price was almost [TS]

00:49:47   identical to a MacBook Air you know a [TS]

00:49:49   lot of the of the video and the language [TS]

00:49:52   that you used for it was very similar to [TS]

00:49:53   Apple it's got one port on it USB a port [TS]

00:49:56   instead of a USB C port but just one [TS]

00:49:58   port on it and it does have the surface [TS]

00:50:00   dock you know so you can do other things [TS]

00:50:01   with it but I think a lot of people who [TS]

00:50:03   were highly critical of Apple for doing [TS]

00:50:06   things like a single port MacBook or any [TS]

00:50:09   of a dozen decisions they made recently [TS]

00:50:11   were strangely silent when it came to [TS]

00:50:13   Microsoft making very similar moves with [TS]

00:50:14   his laptop yeah one port its USB a which [TS]

00:50:17   seems outdated and then they have a [TS]

00:50:19   proprietary display port right yeah and [TS]

00:50:21   a surface dock that to me that the [TS]

00:50:23   proprietary display port seems like the [TS]

00:50:25   weird the part that like whoa if Apple [TS]

00:50:27   did that that would be that that would [TS]

00:50:29   seem generate a lot of criticism I don't [TS]

00:50:32   get your you are true I wasn't even [TS]

00:50:34   going to bring that aspect up but [TS]

00:50:36   there's it how can Apple release a [TS]

00:50:38   laptop with one port and get like at a [TS]

00:50:41   month of criticism or years of criticism [TS]

00:50:44   people still complain about the MacBook [TS]

00:50:45   you know people call it the MacBook one [TS]

00:50:47   and then [TS]

00:50:49   Microsoft releases one with one port it [TS]

00:50:52   happens to be outdated the only other [TS]

00:50:53   port is a proprietary one which is an [TS]

00:50:55   Apple move and it gets headlines like [TS]

00:50:59   here's the laptop the apples apples or [TS]

00:51:02   Microsoft's macbook killer that Apple [TS]

00:51:05   can't ignore and it gets it gets funnier [TS]

00:51:07   after that because it is running KB Lake [TS]

00:51:09   which is a generation beyond what Apple [TS]

00:51:10   ran and there's reasons for that the [TS]

00:51:12   quad core version of Kaiba Lake wasn't [TS]

00:51:14   ready when Apple needed at the graphics [TS]

00:51:16   that Apple one of the more powerful [TS]

00:51:16   graphics were not available when Apple [TS]

00:51:18   wanted to put them into the MacBook Pro [TS]

00:51:19   and this in fact doesn't have those [TS]

00:51:21   sorts of graphics options so a Microsoft [TS]

00:51:23   made a different choice they went with a [TS]

00:51:24   better CPU but arguably a much worse GPU [TS]

00:51:26   but at the same time there's 8 gigabytes [TS]

00:51:28   and 16 gigabytes of RAM but the 16 [TS]

00:51:30   gigabyte version doesn't ship for months [TS]

00:51:32   and can you imagine if Apple announced [TS]

00:51:33   the new MacBook Pros we went to in [TS]

00:51:35   October and said oh by the way 16 [TS]

00:51:37   gigabyte versions lock in a chip for a [TS]

00:51:39   few months and I also think I went [TS]

00:51:42   through the configuration on it because [TS]

00:51:43   there was also some initial Twitter [TS]

00:51:46   feedback that I saw where it was that [TS]

00:51:48   that it shows how overpriced the MacBook [TS]

00:51:51   Pros are and I found the exact opposite [TS]

00:51:54   where I configured one with core i7 16 [TS]

00:51:59   gigs of ram and a 512 megabyte SSD and [TS]

00:52:03   the price was 21 99 and a MacBook with [TS]

00:52:07   core i7 and 16 gigs of ram and a 512 [TS]

00:52:12   gigabyte SSD was $21.99 the exact same [TS]

00:52:14   price [TS]

00:52:15   $21.99 for Flex John and Apple offers a [TS]

00:52:20   one terabyte SSD Microsoft doesn't and [TS]

00:52:23   Apple will let you get a 16 gigabytes of [TS]

00:52:26   RAM configuration in the core i5 variant [TS]

00:52:31   of the MacBook Pro and Microsoft doesn't [TS]

00:52:33   if you want to get 16 gigs of ram you've [TS]

00:52:35   gotta also upgrade to the core i7 and on [TS]

00:52:38   personally me personally I've actually [TS]

00:52:41   totally changed my my personal take on [TS]

00:52:47   but laptops were for me I think the the [TS]

00:52:52   I'm a podcasting from it right now I [TS]

00:52:53   have a 2015 or is it 2014 cheese I don't [TS]

00:52:57   even remember [TS]

00:52:58   MacBook Pro 13 inch MacBook Pro let's [TS]

00:53:01   see what they say I don't remember it so [TS]

00:53:04   I might take four years Oh mid 2014 [TS]

00:53:10   so yeah it's a late 2014 MacBook Pro 13 [TS]

00:53:12   inch one of the best computers I've ever [TS]

00:53:15   owned I maxed out everything when I [TS]

00:53:18   bought it I got like three gigahertz [TS]

00:53:21   Intel Core i7 I got the 16 gigs of ram [TS]

00:53:24   which is the most I could get and I got [TS]

00:53:25   the one terabyte SSD and I'm happy with [TS]

00:53:28   all those decisions because I've got a [TS]

00:53:30   couple hundred gigabytes left but way [TS]

00:53:34   more than 512 I'm like 700 or something [TS]

00:53:36   like that so I need the one terabyte was [TS]

00:53:39   useful to me I would lie as the biggest [TS]

00:53:42   thing I need because I'm lazy and I [TS]

00:53:45   always keep lots of Safari tabs open and [TS]

00:53:47   slack take slack itself even if you run [TS]

00:53:49   it as an app takes like a gigabyte of [TS]

00:53:52   RAM yeah I don't think I need a core i7 [TS]

00:53:57   I think and I thought this I when I was [TS]

00:54:00   testing I had a couple of the review [TS]

00:54:01   units of the the new MacBook Pros from [TS]

00:54:04   from October there's nothing I do a [TS]

00:54:09   daily day-to-day basis where having a [TS]

00:54:12   core i7 instead of a core i5 really [TS]

00:54:13   makes a difference I don't use Xcode or [TS]

00:54:16   if I do I do it rarely enough that the [TS]

00:54:19   difference in build times I'm not doing [TS]

00:54:21   it all day all day long we're shaving [TS]

00:54:24   some time off the the building run cycle [TS]

00:54:26   would really make a difference other [TS]

00:54:30   things I do that might be like batch [TS]

00:54:31   processing it doesn't matter to me [TS]

00:54:33   because it's running in the background [TS]

00:54:34   you know it the difference between core [TS]

00:54:37   i5 and core i7 performance wise isn't [TS]

00:54:39   meaningful to me personally and the core [TS]

00:54:41   i5 is going to get better battery life [TS]

00:54:42   and that actually is that's more [TS]

00:54:44   important to me so I think the next time [TS]

00:54:45   I get a MacBook Pro I'd get a core i5 [TS]

00:54:48   that would get better battery life and [TS]

00:54:50   it's way more than fast enough and then [TS]

00:54:53   just max out the SSD in the RAM and [TS]

00:54:55   Microsoft won't let you do that and I [TS]

00:54:57   find that to be a very useful [TS]

00:54:58   configuration I have the exact same [TS]

00:55:01   MacBook Pro that you have from before [TS]

00:55:02   the exact same configuration and I came [TS]

00:55:04   to the exact same conclusion about this [TS]

00:55:05   one and in fact I can't mention any [TS]

00:55:07   names but someone who knows those [TS]

00:55:09   chipsets inside it out just told me [TS]

00:55:10   point blank don't give Intel the f [TS]

00:55:11   your money I I really I I believe that I [TS]

00:55:17   really do and it's not so much that [TS]

00:55:18   there's anything wrong with the core i7 [TS]

00:55:20   but that the core i5 is just good enough [TS]

00:55:23   and I really do on that curve and I [TS]

00:55:26   think that's why Apple has wisely made [TS]

00:55:28   at the default even on the pros it's not [TS]

00:55:32   just that it's more expensive but that [TS]

00:55:33   it's really it's a good even for someone [TS]

00:55:35   with who needs a hyper you know [TS]

00:55:37   relatively on the scale of all of [TS]

00:55:39   Apple's MacBooks higher performance [TS]

00:55:41   model the MacBook Pro with the Core i5 [TS]

00:55:43   is a good one so anyways that money you [TS]

00:55:45   get an extra port meaning I'm just [TS]

00:55:46   getting one port my MacBook Pros so [TS]

00:55:48   anyway I do find that interesting on the [TS]

00:55:50   surface I'll give them kudos I don't [TS]

00:55:53   think it looks like a MacBook Air I [TS]

00:55:54   think it's obviously I think Apple is [TS]

00:55:56   largely defined the modern laptop in a [TS]

00:56:00   way that there are some basic [TS]

00:56:02   fundamental similarities to the MacBook [TS]

00:56:06   energy design [TS]

00:56:07   yeah the wedge design is certainly one [TS]

00:56:09   but I don't think that's the sort of [TS]

00:56:11   thing that even me as somebody who's [TS]

00:56:13   relatively sensitive to people ripping [TS]

00:56:14   off Mac books I don't think that's [TS]

00:56:16   something that they can that they could [TS]

00:56:17   lay ownership to you know it's even sort [TS]

00:56:22   of like Tim Cook mentioned this I think [TS]

00:56:24   when at the event last last year when [TS]

00:56:27   they the when I introduced the MacBook [TS]

00:56:29   Pros when they went through all of [TS]

00:56:30   Apple's portables from the beginning of [TS]

00:56:33   the I'd like from at least from the [TS]

00:56:34   first power book I think they skipped [TS]

00:56:36   the Mac portable but all the ones that [TS]

00:56:39   you had identifies a laptop like the Mac [TS]

00:56:41   portable was portable but wasn't the [TS]

00:56:42   laptop like it seems crazy now but Apple [TS]

00:56:46   was the first one who put the keyboard [TS]

00:56:48   back so that you have palm rests in [TS]

00:56:51   front all previous laptops had the keys [TS]

00:56:54   right up to the front of the device and [TS]

00:56:57   you know so the fact I just think that's [TS]

00:57:00   just something that when you see it [TS]

00:57:01   you're like oh that's an obvious way to [TS]

00:57:03   do it I think the no wise design yeah [TS]

00:57:04   right I think the wedge shape of the [TS]

00:57:06   MacBook Air is an obvious way to shave [TS]

00:57:08   weight off off a device where only some [TS]

00:57:11   of the components need need the full [TS]

00:57:13   thickness at the back and if you can [TS]

00:57:16   make it thinner in a front you might as [TS]

00:57:17   well so I don't hold that against him [TS]

00:57:19   like at a glance you don't look at it [TS]

00:57:21   and you wouldn't look at that and think [TS]

00:57:22   that two MacBook Air [TS]

00:57:23   I did but you know but I'm willing to [TS]

00:57:25   concede the point that you watch the [TS]

00:57:27   video because the video again is very [TS]

00:57:29   similar to Apple design language you see [TS]

00:57:30   that computer opening up and if you [TS]

00:57:32   squint a little bit you can't tell the [TS]

00:57:33   difference all right and they do you [TS]

00:57:34   know they obviously took a lot of pride [TS]

00:57:36   in the video and and it is Apple style [TS]

00:57:38   video but it's there's a lot of pride in [TS]

00:57:40   the internals too [TS]

00:57:41   yes they showed the what would you call [TS]

00:57:43   it the the it's obviously done in CGI [TS]

00:57:48   but yeah the the computer the renders [TS]

00:57:51   yeah coming apart that the different [TS]

00:57:53   parts of it are you know the little [TS]

00:57:56   screws and everything going in other [TS]

00:57:58   words do they've gotten much I mean from [TS]

00:57:59   for a software company they've gotten [TS]

00:58:00   remarkable hardware chops over the last [TS]

00:58:02   few years well it's funny that they've [TS]

00:58:05   always had a good reputation for making [TS]

00:58:06   like mice and keyboards right the device [TS]

00:58:09   that Microsoft mice and keyboards have [TS]

00:58:10   ever since they got into the business [TS]

00:58:11   have had reputation as world-class you [TS]

00:58:14   know but the Xbox Live not so much no [TS]

00:58:19   red rings and squeaky boxes right um but [TS]

00:58:23   yeah they you know and I I even like the [TS]

00:58:26   way that the I think is it the windows [TS]

00:58:28   logo or the Microsoft logo the four [TS]

00:58:30   rectangles thing the windows logo yeah [TS]

00:58:32   is that what it is it's you know it [TS]

00:58:34   looks good it's you know they've finally [TS]

00:58:35   gotten it to a point where it's reduced [TS]

00:58:37   to a real icon it was really the de [TS]

00:58:41   facto Microsoft logo by now so I think [TS]

00:58:43   they use it everywhere it they're using [TS]

00:58:45   a different material they've got like a [TS]

00:58:47   soft touch forget the name of it there's [TS]

00:58:52   a brand name that I wasn't familiar with [TS]

00:58:53   but yes settle something yeah it's some [TS]

00:58:56   kind of like fake leather type yeah [TS]

00:58:58   artificial synthetic leather what [TS]

00:59:00   astroturf is - grass or something um [TS]

00:59:02   yeah but that it's used by you know [TS]

00:59:04   premium luxury automakers for components [TS]

00:59:07   and caught you know like the dashboards [TS]

00:59:09   of cards or stuff like that [TS]

00:59:10   so supposedly a great material would be [TS]

00:59:13   will be interesting to see how it wears [TS]

00:59:15   and you might think hey well duh of [TS]

00:59:18   course it's going to wear well why would [TS]

00:59:19   they use it if it doesn't wear well but [TS]

00:59:21   you know then you think about the [TS]

00:59:22   remember the iPod touch that yep they [TS]

00:59:25   were sir well whatnot ipod touch it was [TS]

00:59:27   an iPod Nano or something that was like [TS]

00:59:30   you could be scratch it with your [TS]

00:59:32   fingernail yeah no totally you can it's [TS]

00:59:34   hard to but there's no amount of QA that [TS]

00:59:36   can prepare you for a million customers [TS]

00:59:37   about it so we'll see but that's it [TS]

00:59:39   that's new I don't I don't recall ever [TS]

00:59:41   seeing a premium laptop that was [TS]

00:59:43   something other than aluminum or you [TS]

00:59:47   know plastic as the surface yeah they [TS]

00:59:50   said they wanted to be less sterile to [TS]

00:59:52   be less cold to be more like a warmer [TS]

00:59:53   feeling I just thought that's going to [TS]

00:59:55   pick up a lot of stains and a lot of [TS]

00:59:57   interns at least the lighter sellers [TS]

00:59:58   would I think I don't [TS]

00:59:58   would I think I don't [TS]

01:00:00   oh um but I mean the argument I guess is [TS]

01:00:02   that's going to patina like a good [TS]

01:00:03   leather I don't know but there's a fancy [TS]

01:00:05   way of saying this T yeah but it's weird [TS]

01:00:08   though I think things that patina by [TS]

01:00:09   touch are different than things like if [TS]

01:00:11   you have like a leather watch strap or a [TS]

01:00:15   leather belt it will get get a patina [TS]

01:00:20   over time but it doesn't look like two [TS]

01:00:23   sweaty palm prints yes right no yeah [TS]

01:00:27   exactly you know it's coming from use as [TS]

01:00:30   opposed to coming from just sweat on two [TS]

01:00:32   spots right right on the palm rest and [TS]

01:00:35   those are heavily using that's heavy [TS]

01:00:37   trafficked area yeah so we'll see you [TS]

01:00:38   you know but but give them credit for [TS]

01:00:39   something original yeah it looks pretty [TS]

01:00:42   good but I don't think the price is all [TS]

01:00:44   that compelling I mean I don't think [TS]

01:00:46   it's bad but I don't I don't get the [TS]

01:00:47   argument that it makes Apple's MacBook [TS]

01:00:49   pricing we've got a line no like the the [TS]

01:00:52   one thing you could criticize Apple for [TS]

01:00:53   is that at $99 $909 they do not have a [TS]

01:00:56   retina computer that the MacBook Air is [TS]

01:00:57   still a non retina machine although it [TS]

01:00:59   does have an available wide over a [TS]

01:01:01   variety of ports then this machine does [TS]

01:01:03   right for people who want to always [TS]

01:01:04   wanted a retina MacBook Air the MacBook [TS]

01:01:08   MacBook Pro Escape is not quite that and [TS]

01:01:10   this is close writer right and that is [TS]

01:01:12   the take you know there are a couple of [TS]

01:01:13   tweets along the lines of you know this [TS]

01:01:15   is the MacBook Air that Apple the retina [TS]

01:01:17   MacBook Air that Apple never made and [TS]

01:01:20   you can kind of see that in you know [TS]

01:01:22   squint your eyes and that's sort of [TS]

01:01:23   basically what it is it's the wedge [TS]

01:01:25   shape it's 13 inches display it has a [TS]

01:01:28   Retina display it's got the Core i5 and [TS]

01:01:31   core i7 chipsets as opposed to the Intel [TS]

01:01:34   m3 m5 and seven chips that that the [TS]

01:01:36   MacBook has yeah which I still don't [TS]

01:01:40   like mean whenever those chips see my [TS]

01:01:41   iPad pro they just cry it's you know [TS]

01:01:44   that's the truth I mean for people who [TS]

01:01:46   don't pay attention to those specs and I [TS]

01:01:47   know some of you know some of you people [TS]

01:01:49   listening obviously do but I think a lot [TS]

01:01:51   of you probably don't but you know the [TS]

01:01:54   the MacBook the one-port MacBook that we [TS]

01:01:57   have today is very very very similar [TS]

01:02:00   conceptually to the original when the [TS]

01:02:02   iPod when the iPad if not iPad air [TS]

01:02:05   macbook air first came out where it was [TS]

01:02:09   not priced based on performance right [TS]

01:02:13   that's the [TS]

01:02:13   you know that and in traditional [TS]

01:02:16   computer thinking you spend more to get [TS]

01:02:19   a faster computer and you spend less and [TS]

01:02:21   you get a slower computer by some you [TS]

01:02:24   know by some multiple measures often of [TS]

01:02:27   speed io CPU graphics you name it you [TS]

01:02:31   spend more you get faster you spend less [TS]

01:02:33   you get slower and the MacBook Air was a [TS]

01:02:35   dramatic exception to that where the [TS]

01:02:38   MacBook Air was a lot more expensive and [TS]

01:02:41   a lot slower but what you got was [TS]

01:02:43   something remarkably thinner and lighter [TS]

01:02:45   you know famously taken out of a manila [TS]

01:02:49   envelope by Steve Jobs on States to [TS]

01:02:50   announce it to gasps outright gasps from [TS]

01:02:54   the audience like the appeal was [TS]

01:02:55   immediate but in terms of how is it [TS]

01:02:57   priced it was very different it was a [TS]

01:02:59   premium price product even though the [TS]

01:03:00   performance was far behind a MacBook Pro [TS]

01:03:03   like far less expensive computers the [TS]

01:03:05   MacBook today is sort of like that the [TS]

01:03:07   difference isn't is dramatic it's not [TS]

01:03:08   super expensive you know I think what [TS]

01:03:10   does it start at $12.99 and a reasonable [TS]

01:03:13   configures by I would say around fifteen [TS]

01:03:15   sixteen hundred dollars but it's slower [TS]

01:03:18   than a $999 MacBook Air yeah and I think [TS]

01:03:22   it's also if you actually look at that [TS]

01:03:25   computer the components that Apple used [TS]

01:03:26   in that are expensive and it's a really [TS]

01:03:28   bad analogy but they delivered [TS]

01:03:29   futuristic computer technology in the [TS]

01:03:31   present and that's always expensive and [TS]

01:03:33   I remember sort of asking like why it [TS]

01:03:34   was this price and it seemed overpriced [TS]

01:03:36   I got this aghast sort of look and then [TS]

01:03:38   I got a very behind-the-scenes rundown [TS]

01:03:41   of what actually went into make it like [TS]

01:03:42   that displays incredibly sophisticated [TS]

01:03:44   and a lot of Technology they had to [TS]

01:03:46   invent to make the computer the way it [TS]

01:03:48   is incredibly expensive and [TS]

01:03:50   sophisticated and you could argue that [TS]

01:03:51   they don't need to do that kind of thing [TS]

01:03:53   and I think we'll see that again with [TS]

01:03:54   the iPhone 8 when it ships that it's [TS]

01:03:56   going to be more expensive than the [TS]

01:03:57   current iPhones but because the [TS]

01:03:58   technology they're putting in it would [TS]

01:04:00   otherwise not come to market for a [TS]

01:04:01   couple years and that's the cost of [TS]

01:04:03   bringing that stuff forward sooner so [TS]

01:04:05   you really are skipping ahead but you [TS]

01:04:07   really think that they're going to [TS]

01:04:08   they're going to ship an iPhone pro or X [TS]

01:04:11   or eight or something that actually [TS]

01:04:13   raises the prices from the current [TS]

01:04:14   iPhone 7 and 7 plus prices yeah I think [TS]

01:04:17   the 7 I mean I think they saw that [TS]

01:04:19   there's price elasticity when they made [TS]

01:04:20   the iPhone 7 plus 20 bucks more than [TS]

01:04:23   previous iPhone 7 sorry the previous [TS]

01:04:25   iPhone plus and that's going to carry [TS]

01:04:27   forward [TS]

01:04:27   they start introducing things like it's [TS]

01:04:29   always a balancing act if we want to put [TS]

01:04:30   something like distance charging and if [TS]

01:04:31   we want to put a much better camera [TS]

01:04:33   system and if we want to put much better [TS]

01:04:34   screen technology all these things have [TS]

01:04:36   a cost and they'll come down over time [TS]

01:04:37   but if we do it today it's going to be [TS]

01:04:39   this price if we do it next year the [TS]

01:04:40   year after it's going to be this price [TS]

01:04:42   and once in a while I think they're [TS]

01:04:43   going to gamble and say we can afford to [TS]

01:04:45   test the upper limits of life on pricing [TS]

01:04:47   yeah and the other factor that comes [TS]

01:04:49   into that is that they can they can not [TS]

01:04:52   have to Bank on having seventy million [TS]

01:04:54   of those components in the first oh yeah [TS]

01:04:57   it controls demand the price is higher [TS]

01:04:59   less people want it and then you know [TS]

01:05:00   the constraint supplies don't matter as [TS]

01:05:02   much I think if that's going to be their [TS]

01:05:04   strategy with the iPhone which I don't [TS]

01:05:06   think I don't think they would call the [TS]

01:05:07   iPhone eight I really don't I think they [TS]

01:05:09   would call the iPhone pro but or iPhone [TS]

01:05:11   something and there because I think I [TS]

01:05:15   think it in and if they also have iPhone [TS]

01:05:17   7s and iPhone 7s plus that stay at these [TS]

01:05:20   same prices we know today and just do a [TS]

01:05:22   typical S upgrade which is often if not [TS]

01:05:25   usually a better upgrade component wise [TS]

01:05:28   than the non S years I think calling the [TS]

01:05:33   new on the iPhone eight makes the iPhone [TS]

01:05:35   7s it look older than it would if they [TS]

01:05:40   gave it a non numbered name like the [TS]

01:05:41   iPhone Edition was the other way it's [TS]

01:05:43   funny because I think MacBook was [TS]

01:05:44   macbook stealth originally and they just [TS]

01:05:45   went with macbook right so they can play [TS]

01:05:47   around with those things until they just [TS]

01:05:48   make a last-minute decision right and [TS]

01:05:50   those things the leak the least because [TS]

01:05:52   that the yeah you know they don't print [TS]

01:05:54   the names on the devices so they don't [TS]

01:05:56   come out of the you know like you look [TS]

01:05:58   on the back of your iPhone 7 it doesn't [TS]

01:05:59   say iPhone 7 it just says I I phone and [TS]

01:06:03   so that you know it's just a small [TS]

01:06:05   number of product marketing people who [TS]

01:06:06   do not do not leak and then my stuff [TS]

01:06:10   around for a while anyway [TS]

01:06:12   backed back to the surface laptop the [TS]

01:06:16   other thing that so the other the [TS]

01:06:19   flipside of the event was the software [TS]

01:06:20   which was Windows 10 s which is and [TS]

01:06:24   again the comparisons were all to Apple [TS]

01:06:26   apples so it's fascinating to me as [TS]

01:06:29   somebody who's been following this stuff [TS]

01:06:31   obsessively you know for mine you know I [TS]

01:06:34   was a teenager [TS]

01:06:37   it is absolutely fascinating to me how [TS]

01:06:40   central Apple is added to this entire [TS]

01:06:44   announcement but yes software everything [TS]

01:06:45   was compared everything on the hardware [TS]

01:06:47   was compared to the MacBook and [TS]

01:06:48   everything software was compared to iOS [TS]

01:06:52   and Mac OS yeah but the big news there's [TS]

01:06:56   a Windows 10s it's a cut-down version of [TS]

01:06:59   Windows 10 and it is iOS style in some [TS]

01:07:04   ways where apps can only come from the [TS]

01:07:08   windows App Store and to get out of that [TS]

01:07:13   it's not like the Mac where you can [TS]

01:07:16   click a checkbox and you know there's or [TS]

01:07:19   there's a radio button in the Mac and [TS]

01:07:21   the security thing where you can choose [TS]

01:07:22   a purse while out yeah the gatekeeper [TS]

01:07:24   switch allow apps only from the app [TS]

01:07:26   store or allow apps from the app store [TS]

01:07:28   and from known identified developers and [TS]

01:07:33   you can also you know even with that [TS]

01:07:36   checked you can also use apps from [TS]

01:07:38   unsigned developers but you have to be [TS]

01:07:41   nerdy enough to know that to open them [TS]

01:07:42   is by not just by double-clicking them [TS]

01:07:45   you have to like ctrl click and choose [TS]

01:07:46   open or use the gear menu in the finder [TS]

01:07:49   just to double insure that you know [TS]

01:07:52   exactly what you're getting into in [TS]

01:07:53   terms of using an app from an untrusted [TS]

01:07:56   developer so you can do that on the Mac [TS]

01:07:58   the Windows 10 s is like iOS where the [TS]

01:08:01   old there is no option d'arnaud options [TS]

01:08:03   like that there's no options to get apps [TS]

01:08:05   from sideload apps from outside this [TS]

01:08:07   store from known developers and [TS]

01:08:08   certainly no options to to get unsigned [TS]

01:08:11   apps yeah you have to pray your way out [TS]

01:08:14   of it it's a huge huge deal I mean it's [TS]

01:08:17   the sort of thing that like if Microsoft [TS]

01:08:19   had tried it ten years ago would have [TS]

01:08:22   had antitrust law that was a suspicion [TS]

01:08:25   like when the Mac App Store was first [TS]

01:08:27   announced it was a whole bunch of people [TS]

01:08:28   who panicked immediately said that we're [TS]

01:08:30   one step away from Apple locking down [TS]

01:08:32   the Mac with a lockdown iOS and this is [TS]

01:08:34   just the first stage and Apple thus far [TS]

01:08:36   not done it at all and it's it's [TS]

01:08:37   interesting that Microsoft got there [TS]

01:08:39   first right because as everybody's fear [TS]

01:08:42   and and and I highlighted a tweet on [TS]

01:08:44   during fireball from dieter bone of the [TS]

01:08:46   verge who said that you know Apple you [TS]

01:08:49   know [TS]

01:08:50   Microsoft's the first dish might be [TS]

01:08:51   paraphrasing but Microsoft's the first [TS]

01:08:53   Microsoft ships a completely lockdown [TS]

01:08:55   computer before Apple odd which I [TS]

01:08:59   thought was interesting just because [TS]

01:09:00   it's you know when he's talking about a [TS]

01:09:02   computer it's clear that what he means [TS]

01:09:04   is that he only thinks of max as real [TS]

01:09:06   computers and not iPads because the [TS]

01:09:07   iPads been out since 2011 and has been [TS]

01:09:09   locked down the exact same way the whole [TS]

01:09:11   time yeah other changes that they've [TS]

01:09:14   done that are even tighter than Apple's [TS]

01:09:17   iOS restrictions in some ways are with [TS]

01:09:22   web browsers you can download other web [TS]

01:09:25   browsers but only from the store and [TS]

01:09:26   chrome is not in the store it was at one [TS]

01:09:30   point so it might return but my [TS]

01:09:31   understanding I've poked asked around [TS]

01:09:33   was more or less that when Microsoft [TS]

01:09:36   went to Google and said hey with the [TS]

01:09:38   version of Chrome in the windows App [TS]

01:09:40   Store you're turning it into Chrome OS [TS]

01:09:42   you know that it was you know had its [TS]

01:09:44   own App Store it do it again [TS]

01:09:46   circling back to our discussion of Apple [TS]

01:09:48   and apps that have quote-unquote [TS]

01:09:50   apps within apps they were like knock it [TS]

01:09:52   off and so rather than sort of take out [TS]

01:09:55   that Chrome OS style integration of [TS]

01:09:58   quote apps within Chrome Google just [TS]

01:10:00   took the ball and went home but even if [TS]

01:10:04   you do get a browser from the their App [TS]

01:10:08   Store you can't set it as your default [TS]

01:10:09   so like an email if you get an email [TS]

01:10:12   with a URL in it and click it it's [TS]

01:10:14   always going to open an edge and and [TS]

01:10:17   here's the part that it would have been [TS]

01:10:18   so much more interesting if they had [TS]

01:10:20   done this years ago and if they had done [TS]

01:10:22   it in Windows itself is the search [TS]

01:10:25   feature in edge is Bing and only Bing [TS]

01:10:30   and you have no other options so unlike [TS]

01:10:31   let's say even iOS which is pretty [TS]

01:10:33   locked out you can you get Google search [TS]

01:10:36   by default still but you have the option [TS]

01:10:38   for Bing Yahoo and DuckDuckGo yeah it's [TS]

01:10:43   I mean it's hard to take things away [TS]

01:10:46   from people and I think the expectations [TS]

01:10:47   are different with it with iOS the [TS]

01:10:48   expectation has always been that you've [TS]

01:10:49   never been able to have third-party [TS]

01:10:51   rendering engines which means like you [TS]

01:10:53   know you've never been able to you've [TS]

01:10:55   always been able to change your your [TS]

01:10:57   default browser and with Microsoft in [TS]

01:10:58   they're calling this Windows it feels [TS]

01:11:00   like Windows it looks like Windows those [TS]

01:11:02   features now feel taken away [TS]

01:11:03   you've taken away my ability to get [TS]

01:11:04   chrome you've taken away my ability to [TS]

01:11:06   search with Google rather than being a [TS]

01:11:08   feature of the operating system [TS]

01:11:09   yeah generous things I'm intrigued to [TS]

01:11:11   see how it plays out because I don't [TS]

01:11:12   know who the market is for this exactly [TS]

01:11:14   and there is an option last but not [TS]

01:11:16   least there's an option where you can [TS]

01:11:19   get this you could get if you buy any I [TS]

01:11:22   guess any of these windows 10s devices [TS]

01:11:24   if you pay 50 bucks you can upgrade to [TS]

01:11:28   Windows 10 Pro but it's clear it's not [TS]

01:11:32   just like you're paying 50 bucks to [TS]

01:11:34   toggle a checkbox like you're changing [TS]

01:11:36   the OS in certain ways keeper where you [TS]

01:11:40   can turn it off download the app you [TS]

01:11:41   want to turn it back on it's not like [TS]

01:11:42   you can download Windows Pro get Chrome [TS]

01:11:44   and go to bed to Windows s you know and [TS]

01:11:46   I don't know enough about Windows to say [TS]

01:11:49   for sure but it's clear that this the [TS]

01:11:51   difference in Windows 10 s in Windows 10 [TS]

01:11:53   Pro is more like it's two different [TS]

01:11:56   versions of Windows 10 and there's [TS]

01:11:58   obviously a lot of it shared stuff in [TS]

01:12:00   there and it's not not like the [TS]

01:12:01   difference between iOS and Mac OS where [TS]

01:12:03   it's two entirely different operating [TS]

01:12:05   systems yeah one Windows but they did [TS]

01:12:09   advertise repeatedly during the event [TS]

01:12:11   that Windows 10 s like there is you know [TS]

01:12:14   that these the they don't call I forget [TS]

01:12:16   what they call it but they don't call it [TS]

01:12:17   sandboxing but there's the equivalent [TS]

01:12:19   idea of sandboxing where apps from the [TS]

01:12:22   Windows Store you know have can't do it [TS]

01:12:27   like the old days where you can do it [TS]

01:12:28   you know write all over the file system [TS]

01:12:30   yeah at dll's [TS]

01:12:31   do you note at the system level blah [TS]

01:12:33   blah blah [TS]

01:12:34   they had repeatedly said that as you use [TS]

01:12:37   a Windows 10 s device over time it won't [TS]

01:12:39   slow down which is you know III again I [TS]

01:12:42   haven't used Windows on a regular basis [TS]

01:12:44   and I don't know 10 or 15 years but it [TS]

01:12:46   was always true and as far as I have [TS]

01:12:49   heard recently is still true that you [TS]

01:12:50   you know people can't nobody who's like [TS]

01:12:53   an expert Windows user gets a Windows [TS]

01:12:55   machine and four years later is still [TS]

01:12:56   using it without having reinstalled at [TS]

01:12:58   some point just to clean out the gunk [TS]

01:13:00   yeah it's yeah it's super interesting to [TS]

01:13:04   me the a lot of the choices that they [TS]

01:13:06   made with this operating system and are [TS]

01:13:09   they competing is clear they're [TS]

01:13:11   competing with Apple in some aspects but [TS]

01:13:12   they're also competing with chrome and [TS]

01:13:14   Chrome OS and the growth of Chrome OS [TS]

01:13:17   in schools and Chrome OS is the virtue [TS]

01:13:19   is like the Chromebooks are super super [TS]

01:13:20   cheap Chrome OS is essentially free [TS]

01:13:23   chrome services Google services are [TS]

01:13:25   essentially free makes it an incredibly [TS]

01:13:27   easy to manage environment which [TS]

01:13:28   education you know schools everybody [TS]

01:13:30   loves and is Windows s really an answer [TS]

01:13:33   to that is a way to get a super cheap [TS]

01:13:35   free version of Windows onto a bunch of [TS]

01:13:36   super cheap really inexpensive laptops I [TS]

01:13:39   think the surface blacktop aside a lot [TS]

01:13:41   of the third-party surface laptop style [TS]

01:13:44   machines will be much less expensive but [TS]

01:13:46   that brings with it a whole other sense [TS]

01:13:48   so a whole other set of concessions or [TS]

01:13:50   compromises I get the impression that at [TS]

01:13:53   a at a practical level and from their [TS]

01:13:56   business their what they really need to [TS]

01:13:59   be concentrating on is chrome and [TS]

01:14:02   Chromebooks and in you know they [TS]

01:14:05   announced that they have through their [TS]

01:14:06   noting Microsoft branded but through [TS]

01:14:08   their partners oh my sir and a couple of [TS]

01:14:11   others that they're coming out with $189 [TS]

01:14:14   notebooks that run Windows 10 S which is [TS]

01:14:17   you know pretty pretty good price point [TS]

01:14:19   and clearly you know very specifically [TS]

01:14:21   the event was education they marked at [TS]

01:14:23   the education market the the surface [TS]

01:14:29   laptop is clearly not aimed at the that [TS]

01:14:33   part of the education market the tray [TS]

01:14:35   full of laptops for kids to you know the [TS]

01:14:39   grade school kids to get as they come in [TS]

01:14:41   the school school there is though you [TS]

01:14:44   know it's sort of it's still [TS]

01:14:46   quote-unquote education but it's there's [TS]

01:14:48   the like teenagers who are going to own [TS]

01:14:51   their own computer for high school and [TS]

01:14:53   college and it's a that's where Apple [TS]

01:14:58   thrives right like so Apple because [TS]

01:15:00   their prices are so much higher and [TS]

01:15:02   because chrome you know for various [TS]

01:15:03   reasons chrome has really really taken [TS]

01:15:05   off in the classroom education market [TS]

01:15:11   and it's kind of using to see if it [TS]

01:15:13   repeats because when I was young there [TS]

01:15:15   was at you know a lot of us had Apple [TS]

01:15:17   computers but you'd go to schools and [TS]

01:15:18   sometimes they would have PC computing [TS]

01:15:20   labs because they were cheap and all [TS]

01:15:22   you'd hear is kids go I hate this my Mac [TS]

01:15:24   at home is so much nicer and I wonder if [TS]

01:15:26   I'm going to get to the point where [TS]

01:15:27   because schools you know are regimented [TS]

01:15:29   the way that they are there's a bunch of [TS]

01:15:30   cheap window [TS]

01:15:31   is Essen probably a lot more Chromebooks [TS]

01:15:32   and kids will go in and go us it's not [TS]

01:15:34   like the iPad I have at home you know I [TS]

01:15:36   hate it and that sort of builds a whole [TS]

01:15:37   separate cliche cachet where maybe Apple [TS]

01:15:40   isn't as competitive in the schools [TS]

01:15:41   anymore but they're super competitive in [TS]

01:15:43   the homes with the same sort of [TS]

01:15:44   population yeah I think it's definitely [TS]

01:15:46   true as the father of a seventh grader [TS]

01:15:48   and its seventh grade it's a little [TS]

01:15:51   different but in the lower grades just [TS]

01:15:53   in the last few years at Jonas to school [TS]

01:15:57   most of the computers that they had [TS]

01:15:58   access to were Chromebooks um and the [TS]

01:16:02   kids hated him but they're not hated him [TS]

01:16:04   but they they didn't really see them as [TS]

01:16:06   something desirable hates a wrong word [TS]

01:16:08   but they more or less were just they're [TS]

01:16:09   just Google Docs machines really that's [TS]

01:16:12   really all they were and you know I [TS]

01:16:14   guess they do some research on you know [TS]

01:16:16   web browsers but they're just literally [TS]

01:16:18   just used for searching the web for some [TS]

01:16:20   amount of research and for you know [TS]

01:16:24   writing reveaied a written assignment [TS]

01:16:26   you do it in Google Docs and it saves to [TS]

01:16:29   a folder where the teacher can get it [TS]

01:16:30   and they're kind of junky and they're [TS]

01:16:32   kind of squeaky and they're kind of [TS]

01:16:33   mushy it's just like right I was because [TS]

01:16:35   my clock is the same way they have [TS]

01:16:37   chrome at school now it's all you want [TS]

01:16:39   all in on it but they have iPads at home [TS]

01:16:40   and they can tell like it's not they [TS]

01:16:42   don't put it in those terms but they can [TS]

01:16:44   tell that it just feel like I saw like [TS]

01:16:46   their got the same experience all right [TS]

01:16:47   and that's not necessarily a bad thing [TS]

01:16:49   and I totally understand it from the [TS]

01:16:50   school's perspective yeah because I [TS]

01:16:51   don't you know that they don't think you [TS]

01:16:54   know you don't want a more expensive you [TS]

01:16:57   know the price is a huge issue and the [TS]

01:16:59   durability is a huge issue and if you [TS]

01:17:01   can combine it and have a device that at [TS]

01:17:03   least is reasonably rugged and even if [TS]

01:17:06   it does break it's only hundred eighty [TS]

01:17:08   dollars to replace or whatever I totally [TS]

01:17:10   get it but I bet the kids like the [TS]

01:17:12   mindset of the kids on what they [TS]

01:17:14   actually use and wanted to use was you [TS]

01:17:16   know in our own time was I phones really [TS]

01:17:19   I think that's an important part of the [TS]

01:17:22   discussion in the overall education [TS]

01:17:23   market yeah [TS]

01:17:25   but the surface laptop clearly is is [TS]

01:17:27   aimed I feel like from a business sense [TS]

01:17:29   app Microsoft really needs to stem the [TS]

01:17:32   growth of Chromebooks they need that [TS]

01:17:34   market they need that you know they're [TS]

01:17:36   their business to set up on the [TS]

01:17:38   assumption that all of these low-end [TS]

01:17:40   machines will be running Windows [TS]

01:17:42   and we'll figure out a way to make money [TS]

01:17:44   even if the margins are really low that [TS]

01:17:46   that's you know that windows everywhere [TS]

01:17:48   strategy is important to them I feel [TS]

01:17:50   like it's more of a psychological pride [TS]

01:17:52   thing that they are and for years now [TS]

01:17:56   it's not just with the surface laptop [TS]

01:17:57   but that they've sort of been not even [TS]

01:18:00   sort of that they've been outright [TS]

01:18:01   gunning for the MacBook in advertising [TS]

01:18:04   with their products right they had a [TS]

01:18:06   whole ad campaign based on the I I [TS]

01:18:10   forget the name of their products but I [TS]

01:18:12   think it's the surface book surface pro [TS]

01:18:14   and sort of the surface pro I don't know [TS]

01:18:16   but it's Dora was the first one that was [TS]

01:18:18   the convertible tablet and the surface [TS]

01:18:19   book was the laptop II convertible [TS]

01:18:22   righted so the laptop be convertible [TS]

01:18:24   there's an ad campaign that was pretty [TS]

01:18:25   big where they ran and it the whole [TS]

01:18:27   thing was based on can't do this on a [TS]

01:18:29   MacBook and it's usually just drawing or [TS]

01:18:31   touching this gray [TS]

01:18:33   trying to make that look we've made a [TS]

01:18:36   high quality laptop and it has a [TS]

01:18:38   touchscreen trying to make that into a [TS]

01:18:41   differentiating issue and they they [TS]

01:18:43   mentioned you know in that campaign they [TS]

01:18:45   mentioned MacBooks specifically and [TS]

01:18:47   nothing else I mean and they can't [TS]

01:18:48   really mention anything else because [TS]

01:18:50   it's not targeted at Chromebooks it's a [TS]

01:18:53   very different class machine these are [TS]

01:18:55   like the thousand dollar range machine [TS]

01:18:57   and they can't piss off their OEMs by [TS]

01:19:00   talking about other Windows laptops but [TS]

01:19:03   it feels like Microsoft is caught in a [TS]

01:19:04   heart is he sort of caught in the middle [TS]

01:19:06   right now and you have Apple at one side [TS]

01:19:07   and Google get a cider and Microsoft is [TS]

01:19:09   sort of running back and forth between [TS]

01:19:10   them not really certain of its own [TS]

01:19:12   identity sometimes competing with [TS]

01:19:13   Microsoft with Google sometimes with [TS]

01:19:15   Apple and I don't want to bring up the [TS]

01:19:16   toaster French thing but I think it's an [TS]

01:19:18   apt description of it's sort of changed [TS]

01:19:20   it sort of bachas your focus with [TS]

01:19:22   products because you're not you don't [TS]

01:19:24   have your own clear destination you're [TS]

01:19:26   sort of like what Apple's doing over [TS]

01:19:27   here what Google's doing over here and [TS]

01:19:28   you're meshing them together and I think [TS]

01:19:29   that's sort of the disconnect that I see [TS]

01:19:31   in the surface book yeah ok surface [TS]

01:19:34   laptop well and the other thing too is [TS]

01:19:35   that they tried to make some Hey at the [TS]

01:19:40   end of last year in the wake of the [TS]

01:19:42   mixed reviews of the new MacBook Pros [TS]

01:19:45   and it said you know this is the end of [TS]

01:19:50   2016 that they that that I forget if [TS]

01:19:54   they said their surface in particular or [TS]

01:19:56   the you know that the premium market [TS]

01:19:59   which is defined as like a 999 and up [TS]

01:20:01   for laptops that they're taking share [TS]

01:20:03   away from Apple in that market and there [TS]

01:20:07   were a couple of statements that they [TS]

01:20:08   had but it was all Bezos numbers where [TS]

01:20:10   they didn't give specific numbers or [TS]

01:20:11   sources and just set it but the actual [TS]

01:20:15   numbers that have been released and [TS]

01:20:17   we're really since then don't bear that [TS]

01:20:20   out Apple's Mac sales have been up and [TS]

01:20:22   again Apple doesn't in their numbers [TS]

01:20:24   release the split between notebooks and [TS]

01:20:27   desktops but there's no reason to [TS]

01:20:28   believe that their desktop sales are up [TS]

01:20:30   because their best selling one the iMac [TS]

01:20:32   is over a year old and there are other [TS]

01:20:34   ones the Mac Pro and the Mac Mini are 17 [TS]

01:20:38   and 23 years old respectively and even [TS]

01:20:41   the best desktop year the the laptops [TS]

01:20:44   dwarfed just right dwarfed the desktop [TS]

01:20:46   sales and so there's absolutely you know [TS]

01:20:49   apples Mac sales are up in the last two [TS]

01:20:52   quarters they've reported so there's [TS]

01:20:54   absolutely no sign that that Mac sales [TS]

01:20:57   are down and so if they're if if it's [TS]

01:20:59   true that Windows PCs in the premium [TS]

01:21:02   market have taken share from Apple it [TS]

01:21:05   doesn't make any sense because if [TS]

01:21:07   Apple's sales are up technically it [TS]

01:21:08   would be possible if the overall market [TS]

01:21:10   were growing so fast that they could [TS]

01:21:12   take share away even though apples still [TS]

01:21:14   growing by outgrowing it but absolutely [TS]

01:21:17   no nobody is reporting that premium [TS]

01:21:20   Windows laptop sales are a growing part [TS]

01:21:23   of the market in fact everybody's [TS]

01:21:24   reporting that there's that it's a [TS]

01:21:26   shrinking part of the market you're not [TS]

01:21:27   collapsing but you know like a slowly [TS]

01:21:30   deflating tire yes and there's no sign [TS]

01:21:33   of that there's no sign of that abetting [TS]

01:21:38   yeah and it's funny that again going [TS]

01:21:42   back to the Apple watch they never [TS]

01:21:43   watched the considered beleaguered is [TS]

01:21:45   considered doomed that a lot of the [TS]

01:21:46   angles taken reports where surface was [TS]

01:21:49   you know by no measure selling well we [TS]

01:21:52   had no idea what it was selling but it [TS]

01:21:53   was being ballooned it was being propped [TS]

01:21:54   up it were headlines all over the place [TS]

01:21:56   hanging out like the resurgence of the [TS]

01:21:57   Windows laptop and the coverage of the [TS]

01:22:01   numbers you talked about that had no [TS]

01:22:02   backing from Microsoft as far as I can [TS]

01:22:04   tell though that was pretty extensive [TS]

01:22:06   and the coverage of the surface not [TS]

01:22:07   doing well is not been similarly [TS]

01:22:08   right they've just announced that this [TS]

01:22:10   you know sales room not now again not [TS]

01:22:12   collapsing but the surface sales were [TS]

01:22:13   down pretty significantly in the last [TS]

01:22:15   quarter yet they reported so I don't see [TS]

01:22:17   that happening all right let me take a [TS]

01:22:20   break here and thank our third and final [TS]

01:22:22   sponsor of the show two good friends at [TS]

01:22:26   audible audible has an unmatched [TS]

01:22:30   selection of audiobooks and this is [TS]

01:22:35   pretty new to them original audio shows [TS]

01:22:38   they've got news comedy and more their [TS]

01:22:40   own audio shows you get an account you [TS]

01:22:44   sign up and you get access to all of it [TS]

01:22:45   you get a 30 day free trial if you go to [TS]

01:22:47   audible.com slash talk show if you want [TS]

01:22:50   to listen to it whatever it is for you [TS]

01:22:53   audible has it they've got audiobooks [TS]

01:22:55   from virtually every genre anytime [TS]

01:22:57   anywhere and you can play there [TS]

01:22:59   audiobooks on phones tablets computers [TS]

01:23:02   most Kindles even your iPod you can sync [TS]

01:23:06   it to your computer anything you can [TS]

01:23:08   listen to digital content on you can [TS]

01:23:10   listen into audible stuff on it's great [TS]

01:23:12   for flights it is great for long road [TS]

01:23:14   trips it is great for your daily commute [TS]

01:23:16   anywhere where you listen to podcasts [TS]

01:23:19   like wherever you are right now [TS]

01:23:20   listening to me tell you about this [TS]

01:23:21   great spot to list an audible content [TS]

01:23:24   when you run out of episodes of my show [TS]

01:23:25   and the other shows that you'd like to [TS]

01:23:26   listen to [TS]

01:23:27   they've even got something that they [TS]

01:23:28   call the great listen guarantee if you [TS]

01:23:30   start an audiobook from audible.com [TS]

01:23:39   you don't have an audible account but [TS]

01:23:42   you like listening to podcasts you're [TS]

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01:23:49   30-day free trial at audible.com slash [TS]

01:23:52   talk show know that just slash talk show [TS]

01:23:57   my thanks to audible I should point out [TS]

01:24:02   when I say about when I talk about the [TS]

01:24:03   coverage I don't mean that Apple should [TS]

01:24:05   be given a free ride on these things I [TS]

01:24:06   think it's the same thing as like when [TS]

01:24:07   touch ID is considered a disaster at [TS]

01:24:09   launch but the botched facial [TS]

01:24:11   recognition is fine I think everybody [TS]

01:24:12   should be scrutinized to the level that [TS]

01:24:14   Apple is it's not that they should give [TS]

01:24:15   Apple a break but they should hold [TS]

01:24:17   everybody to that same standard because [TS]

01:24:18   as a consumer I want to know all that [TS]

01:24:20   stuff when I make my decision on what I [TS]

01:24:21   want [TS]

01:24:22   next and I feel like I'm being [TS]

01:24:23   underserved right now because I hear [TS]

01:24:25   every little all the hot takes about [TS]

01:24:27   Apple and everything else sort of just [TS]

01:24:28   skates by yeah well I think it's we're [TS]

01:24:31   talking about the elephant in a room of [TS]

01:24:35   Apple's MacBook lineup is the MacBook [TS]

01:24:37   Air because it's I think it's I think I [TS]

01:24:40   checked today I think it's 788 days [TS]

01:24:42   since they updated the the specs so it's [TS]

01:24:45   two years old it still cost $9.99 it [TS]

01:24:48   doesn't have a Retina screen and and you [TS]

01:24:50   know it I it it's the existence of that [TS]

01:24:55   product that gives rise to the hate at [TS]

01:24:57   Microsoft just put out this thing and it [TS]

01:24:59   makes it the MacBook lineup look [TS]

01:25:01   overpriced I don't think that if you [TS]

01:25:03   look at the if you look at the MacBook [TS]

01:25:05   and I you know the MacBook one port I [TS]

01:25:07   don't even know it I think we'll [TS]

01:25:08   probably due for an update on that [TS]

01:25:09   because the last one came out a year ago [TS]

01:25:11   but a year is not an unreasonable period [TS]

01:25:14   of time to wait for an update so if we [TS]

01:25:16   get one at WWDC I would say right on [TS]

01:25:18   time MacBook Pros obviously just came [TS]

01:25:21   out last fall and I think are you know I [TS]

01:25:25   don't buy the argument that they're [TS]

01:25:26   overpriced I think for what they are [TS]

01:25:28   they are correctly priced even though at [TS]

01:25:31   certain price points that means that [TS]

01:25:33   getting a quote-unquote new MacBook Pro [TS]

01:25:35   has a higher price the price of a [TS]

01:25:37   MacBook Pro plus the Apple watch that's [TS]

01:25:39   essentially embedded inside it right [TS]

01:25:40   exactly and and I think that the if you [TS]

01:25:44   respect things out like when I did the [TS]

01:25:46   comparison to the to the surface laptop [TS]

01:25:51   what I was configuring it against I [TS]

01:25:53   don't think I mentioned this I was [TS]

01:25:54   configuring it against the new MacBook [TS]

01:25:57   Pro with the buttons not the touch bar [TS]

01:26:01   because that's to me the most apt [TS]

01:26:03   comparison like to me that is the [TS]

01:26:05   MacBook Air with retina that everybody [TS]

01:26:07   claims that they want Apple to make the [TS]

01:26:10   MacBook Air with with with a Retina [TS]

01:26:12   screen is the new MacBook Pro that [TS]

01:26:14   doesn't have the touch bar social or is [TS]

01:26:17   that as much when you introduced it yeah [TS]

01:26:19   identity well yeah it's so much in so [TS]

01:26:22   many ways by comparing it to the size [TS]

01:26:24   and weight and thickness of the MacBook [TS]

01:26:25   Air which it compares very favorably you [TS]

01:26:27   know it matches up with and it's way [TS]

01:26:29   faster and as a beautiful screen and etc [TS]

01:26:34   but the MacBook Air is old in ass in [TS]

01:26:37   there $9.99 and doesn't have a Retina [TS]

01:26:39   screen and you know not arguing but just [TS]

01:26:41   having a very very nice debate with [TS]

01:26:43   people on Twitter about it recently like [TS]

01:26:45   Marco Arment and Twitter made that point [TS]

01:26:47   and it's hard to argue with that in 2017 [TS]

01:26:49   Apple should not be selling any device [TS]

01:26:52   that has a display that's not redneck [TS]

01:26:54   caliber in terms of resolution and I [TS]

01:26:56   agree with that in theory it that's it's [TS]

01:26:58   - its 2017 is too late to still be [TS]

01:27:01   selling a brand new product that brand [TS]

01:27:03   new meaning that you're buying it out of [TS]

01:27:05   the box [TS]

01:27:05   yes factory sealed not price retail yeah [TS]

01:27:07   right I think it's you know the non [TS]

01:27:12   retina MacBook Air is like the new 16 [TS]

01:27:14   gigabyte iOS device yeah I can't defend [TS]

01:27:17   it I think it's I would recommend [TS]

01:27:19   against it I if somebody asked me if [TS]

01:27:21   they should buy one I would say no and [TS]

01:27:23   that would be the reason why but you [TS]

01:27:24   pointed out so well with the Mac Pro [TS]

01:27:25   thing is that Apple doesn't have a game [TS]

01:27:27   plan for this it's like if we don't have [TS]

01:27:29   something new to announce and we're not [TS]

01:27:30   cancelling it it just stays at exactly [TS]

01:27:31   the same price in the right lock because [TS]

01:27:33   they want to keep something at that [TS]

01:27:35   $9.99 price that is a Mac laptop but [TS]

01:27:39   they feel like they can't sell the [TS]

01:27:42   MacBook one port at that price yet yeah [TS]

01:27:46   and still keep the margins they want you [TS]

01:27:49   know I think what they're doing is [TS]

01:27:50   waiting and and I don't know if it's [TS]

01:27:53   this year I have no inside information [TS]

01:27:54   but my theory is what they will do is [TS]

01:27:56   eventually they'll have an updated [TS]

01:27:59   state-of-the-art MacBook just plain [TS]

01:28:02   MacBook yeah and put the year old just [TS]

01:28:05   plain MacBook at a lower price point [TS]

01:28:07   until it gets to $9.99 and then at that [TS]

01:28:10   point the MacBook Air goes away yeah [TS]

01:28:12   it'll be a little sad if they stick to [TS]

01:28:14   the Intel Core M platform for that [TS]

01:28:16   because it just is not the same either [TS]

01:28:18   analyst it's fabulous which is great but [TS]

01:28:20   it's just I don't know how to get out of [TS]

01:28:22   that though because I don't yeah you [TS]

01:28:23   can't use a court I don't know you know [TS]

01:28:25   I think you're I think you're stuck [TS]

01:28:26   waiting for the for the the M series to [TS]

01:28:29   get fast enough that you don't mind I [TS]

01:28:31   mean it can happen I mean you know the [TS]

01:28:33   the a-10 is a fanless design and you [TS]

01:28:38   know it's faster that's the other thing [TS]

01:28:39   that's sort of great about the MacBook [TS]

01:28:41   yes that the iPad pro in in my opinion [TS]

01:28:47   has a faster CPU I think that the you [TS]

01:28:49   know the single core Geekbench scores [TS]

01:28:51   are a reasonable you know I realized [TS]

01:28:54   that they don't correlate exactly the [TS]

01:28:55   real-world use no and they're [TS]

01:28:56   purpose-built so the two things that you [TS]

01:28:58   note right off the bat is that Apple can [TS]

01:29:00   build those cores exactly for what they [TS]

01:29:01   want so they can have super fast there's [TS]

01:29:02   a single-threaded operations because [TS]

01:29:04   that's what people hit money do [TS]

01:29:05   interface and stuff like that but they [TS]

01:29:07   can all retire for the second generation [TS]

01:29:10   MacBook it could barely handle one [TS]

01:29:12   stream of 4k well while that ea9 not [TS]

01:29:15   even the a-10 version of the iPad pro [TS]

01:29:17   there is no a 10 version yet the a9 [TS]

01:29:19   version of the iPad pro could handle [TS]

01:29:20   three streams of 4k because Apple built [TS]

01:29:22   that chip exactly to do that and they [TS]

01:29:24   don't have control over Intel and until [TS]

01:29:25   will do things like the a as far as I [TS]

01:29:27   can tell they core m3 is a hot a [TS]

01:29:28   deliberately hobbled chip then maybe [TS]

01:29:31   Apple shouldn't use but Intel just makes [TS]

01:29:33   it worse than the m5 because they want a [TS]

01:29:34   lower price point for that chipset so [TS]

01:29:36   you know there's you know there's a [TS]

01:29:39   waiting game involved there and because [TS]

01:29:41   part of it I think too is like you just [TS]

01:29:44   alluded to is some a big part of it is [TS]

01:29:46   out of apples hands where they were [TS]

01:29:47   waiting for Intel and that opens the [TS]

01:29:50   door to the whole Mel maybe they'll go [TS]

01:29:52   you know put an ARM chip being on their [TS]

01:29:54   own custom ARM chip in them in a mat why [TS]

01:29:55   AMD they've all this money writer by who [TS]

01:29:59   knows who knows what they're thinking [TS]

01:30:00   but it's you know switching to arm on [TS]

01:30:02   one model of Mac is a lot more [TS]

01:30:05   complicated yet and then we have time to [TS]

01:30:07   discuss and I don't think it's going to [TS]

01:30:09   happen and therefore you know there [TS]

01:30:11   might be something I don't foresee there [TS]

01:30:13   might be some way out of this but [TS]

01:30:14   basically they're waiting for Intel on [TS]

01:30:16   that so I don't know I don't know you [TS]

01:30:17   know I don't know what to say and I'd [TS]

01:30:19   but I can totally see I wouldn't also [TS]

01:30:21   wouldn't recommend that Apple you know [TS]

01:30:23   update the MacBook Air and put a Retina [TS]

01:30:25   screen in there yeah I feel like there's [TS]

01:30:27   something and there were rumors of a [TS]

01:30:28   device in between now sort of a larger [TS]

01:30:30   version I was a 14 inch Mac yes [TS]

01:30:32   something yeah whatever happened to that [TS]

01:30:33   ID hasn't shipped all right there's no [TS]

01:30:37   kb lake version of the macbook there's [TS]

01:30:39   no 14 inch version of the macbook this [TS]

01:30:41   rest then the updated i've Mac's not [TS]

01:30:43   here yet now now the 14 inch MacBook was [TS]

01:30:47   a weird there was a weird rumor that [TS]

01:30:48   some people seem certain of and never [TS]

01:30:50   shipped anyway let's move on [TS]

01:30:56   WD see stuff [TS]

01:30:59   I just quickly want to say I am having a [TS]

01:31:01   live show it's announced I people keep [TS]

01:31:04   asking about tickets soon very as you [TS]

01:31:05   listen to this it will be very soon we [TS]

01:31:07   are moving but I don't have anything to [TS]

01:31:09   announce yet so patience yeah sorry [TS]

01:31:17   there are a couple of other events I [TS]

01:31:19   know that they're on the same webpage on [TS]

01:31:21   Apple's ww2 they're very very it's very [TS]

01:31:23   very nice of Apple to promote these [TS]

01:31:24   alternate or at home for you with the [TS]

01:31:26   column but community events there is a [TS]

01:31:29   Coco conf taking place in a hotel right [TS]

01:31:32   adjacent to the Convention Center that [TS]

01:31:34   where WWC is Coco conference held a [TS]

01:31:38   couple times a year I've never been but [TS]

01:31:40   it I have friends who've spoken there [TS]

01:31:41   and have attended and and swear up and [TS]

01:31:44   down that is amazing conference to try [TS]

01:31:46   cat 1299 conference for developers are [TS]

01:31:50   they have a great speaker line-up [TS]

01:31:51   they'll be right there next to WWC so I [TS]

01:31:53   would I think Coco confidence so sort of [TS]

01:31:56   a great plan be for people who wanted to [TS]

01:31:58   go to WWE and did lost the the lottery [TS]

01:32:01   for tickets so look into that if you're [TS]

01:32:04   a developer and you want something like [TS]

01:32:05   that there's alt comp which is also in a [TS]

01:32:08   hotel [TS]

01:32:09   adjacent to the convention hall it I've [TS]

01:32:12   never been there but it seems to me like [TS]

01:32:13   there's two hotels that are literally [TS]

01:32:16   connected to the Convention Center and [TS]

01:32:18   that those hotels themselves have [TS]

01:32:20   convention space yeah and so one of them [TS]

01:32:22   is a Coco Kampf the other one is alt con [TS]

01:32:25   fault Kampf is free so that's a great [TS]

01:32:27   option if you're not looking to spend [TS]

01:32:29   money but I think is also sort of [TS]

01:32:32   developer oriented and then last but not [TS]

01:32:33   least in fact last but probably the [TS]

01:32:36   opposite least is the layers conference [TS]

01:32:38   which is a great great great conference [TS]

01:32:42   it's more design or in it is it's not a [TS]

01:32:45   developer conference so for those of you [TS]

01:32:48   who aren't interested in design or in [TS]

01:32:50   development [TS]

01:32:51   you're not coders but your designer it [TS]

01:32:52   is a great conference I was a there was [TS]

01:32:56   two years ago where I got to interview [TS]

01:32:57   Susan care the designer of the original [TS]

01:33:00   Macintosh icons and all the original [TS]

01:33:02   Macintosh fonts which is still maybe [TS]

01:33:05   that but I can't believe I'm the most I [TS]

01:33:08   can't believe I'm doing this moment of [TS]

01:33:09   my entire career like you know like [TS]

01:33:11   having Phil Schiller on the talk [TS]

01:33:13   was a thrill and meeting Steve Jobs was [TS]

01:33:16   thrilled but for me personally the not [TS]

01:33:19   necessarily thrilling but just like I [TS]

01:33:20   can't believe I'm doing this [TS]

01:33:21   interviewing Susan kare on stage was [TS]

01:33:23   just absolutely amazing because she's [TS]

01:33:26   just one of my favorite designers of all [TS]

01:33:29   time like literally got me you know it [TS]

01:33:33   it was as famous to me as Steve Jobs was [TS]

01:33:35   at a very young age because I knew that [TS]

01:33:37   she did all of this amazing work almost [TS]

01:33:39   single-handedly on the original Mac and [TS]

01:33:40   it was all down to the pixel just [TS]

01:33:42   perfect um that was great but that [TS]

01:33:46   speakers there it's great and it's so so [TS]

01:33:48   nice layers is just one of those [TS]

01:33:49   conferences where it's like I cannot [TS]

01:33:50   believe that once a year these people [TS]

01:33:53   put together a conference for everything [TS]

01:33:54   is so nice and you get nice coffee and [TS]

01:33:56   it's a nice room and stuff like that so [TS]

01:33:58   I have a special deal for people listen [TS]

01:33:59   to the talk show you go to layers is [TS]

01:34:01   that's the website or you can just [TS]

01:34:03   google for layers conference but the [TS]

01:34:05   website is layers dot is and if you use [TS]

01:34:09   this code you'll save a hundred bucks on [TS]

01:34:10   registration and I know they're doing [TS]

01:34:12   pretty well I know that but there's [TS]

01:34:13   definitely still openings and if you're [TS]

01:34:16   going to go if you're thinking about [TS]

01:34:17   having an excuse to be in the W DC area [TS]

01:34:20   during WWC you're going to want to book [TS]

01:34:22   stuff you know now's the time to book so [TS]

01:34:24   you get you know you're not making [TS]

01:34:26   arrangements at the last minute you will [TS]

01:34:28   save a hundred bucks and here's the code [TS]

01:34:30   you can use that they'll know you came [TS]

01:34:32   from me there's not a sponsorship this [TS]

01:34:33   is something I'm doing as a friend to [TS]

01:34:34   jesse charge runs the conference yeah [TS]

01:34:38   because I wholeheartedly recommend it [TS]

01:34:40   this isn't a sponsorship but I just it's [TS]

01:34:41   just a great conference so you save 100 [TS]

01:34:43   bucks here's the code martini [TS]

01:34:45   use that code and I worked it out i [TS]

01:34:50   adder test it you can also get the same [TS]

01:34:52   you can get the same code same discount [TS]

01:34:56   if you type the martini emoji I dare you [TS]

01:35:01   to try it I think it'll perfect that's [TS]

01:35:03   perfect [TS]

01:35:03   it isn't that perfect yeah I hope it [TS]

01:35:05   works don't try that out layers is it is [TS]

01:35:08   such a good conference and it's such a [TS]

01:35:10   great I think she'd be pretty excited I [TS]

01:35:11   don't know who knows this whole thing [TS]

01:35:12   could be weird but if you're thinking [TS]

01:35:16   about if you're hoping to make last [TS]

01:35:17   minute I just talking to somebody else [TS]

01:35:19   today it was like on the fence about [TS]

01:35:21   whether they are going to be you know [TS]

01:35:23   can they book you know get to San Jose [TS]

01:35:25   for WWC week [TS]

01:35:26   so I know that there's people out there [TS]

01:35:29   whose are still thinking maybe they will [TS]

01:35:30   maybe they won't but if you want to have [TS]

01:35:32   a good reason to be there layers it's a [TS]

01:35:33   good good as good as anything yeah and [TS]

01:35:37   if your designer is a perfect complement [TS]

01:35:38   to BC because I know every year they try [TS]

01:35:40   more and more to have more and more [TS]

01:35:41   design sessions and they have the design [TS]

01:35:43   review labs but it's really a developer [TS]

01:35:45   show and layers is such a great [TS]

01:35:46   complement to it yeah and I forget what [TS]

01:35:48   else they do did that there's some [TS]

01:35:50   integrations with WWC Apple people come [TS]

01:35:53   in to talk about interface design and [TS]

01:35:54   stuff like that so check out their [TS]

01:35:56   website you have salt the info also I [TS]

01:35:57   just love the layers logo this year it [TS]

01:36:01   is so great because it is so self [TS]

01:36:03   referential to the name where it's very [TS]

01:36:06   design looking but anyway check out [TS]

01:36:08   their website even if you're not a nurse [TS]

01:36:09   in a conference just to see the [TS]

01:36:10   excellent graphic design what else do [TS]

01:36:16   you got there was that we didn't talk [TS]

01:36:18   about it but the we mentioned it before [TS]

01:36:20   but we didn't go into the whole whole [TS]

01:36:22   thing with uber tagging iPhones you can [TS]

01:36:25   tell it's an interesting week for uber [TS]

01:36:27   when they have not one but two [TS]

01:36:28   controversies on the same day what was [TS]

01:36:30   the other one I heard you had them both [TS]

01:36:32   in your original ride out I don't know [TS]

01:36:34   everything yes and now he's canceled his [TS]

01:36:36   recoded I mean right well that was they [TS]

01:36:39   I had to happen there was no way that he [TS]

01:36:40   yes possibly get up there I mean it [TS]

01:36:43   really I I [TS]

01:36:45   I almost wish what they should have done [TS]

01:36:46   is like Kickstarter like just like [TS]

01:36:49   alright I'll do it but we've got to like [TS]

01:36:51   Kickstarter a million dollars for you [TS]

01:36:54   know app camp for girls or so some good [TS]

01:36:56   cause like that like can you imagine how [TS]

01:36:58   much money you would've raised to kick [TS]

01:36:59   Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg discover [TS]

01:37:02   him on stage oh my god but anyway the [TS]

01:37:06   story came out Mike Isaac of the New [TS]

01:37:07   York Times had a story in a profile of [TS]

01:37:10   Callen ik the CEO of co-founder of uber [TS]

01:37:14   and mentioned that a couple of years ago [TS]

01:37:18   he got called in to for a meeting with [TS]

01:37:20   Tim Cook at Apple's camp conference or [TS]

01:37:23   campus and cook confronted him with the [TS]

01:37:26   fact that Apple figured out that they [TS]

01:37:28   were and this is where the story was [TS]

01:37:31   murky or initially where the initial [TS]

01:37:33   version of the story that was up in the [TS]

01:37:34   New York Times in the morning said that [TS]

01:37:36   they were tagging and tracking iPhones [TS]

01:37:39   even after the app was deleted or even [TS]

01:37:43   if the OS was erased from the phone and [TS]

01:37:46   reset and then the word tracking was [TS]

01:37:49   taken out in a subsequent edit in the [TS]

01:37:51   afternoon but the you know the horses [TS]

01:37:55   were out of the barn at that point where [TS]

01:37:57   people were panicked and part of it is [TS]

01:37:59   rightfully fueled by uber has been [TS]

01:38:01   caught with so many shady practices that [TS]

01:38:04   if they could do that of course they [TS]

01:38:06   would like it [TS]

01:38:07   it passes the sniff test of yes if a [TS]

01:38:10   believable right but there was no [TS]

01:38:12   tracking meaning you here tracking [TS]

01:38:14   phones and you think well I had the uber [TS]

01:38:16   app and if I have the rap I you know it [TS]

01:38:18   can use my location because that's how [TS]

01:38:20   the car comes and gets you and so you [TS]

01:38:24   hear that what people think is well I [TS]

01:38:26   deleted the uber app because I don't [TS]

01:38:27   like the company I've used lyft or for [TS]

01:38:30   whatever reason they deleted the app and [TS]

01:38:31   the fear that Hooper is still tracking [TS]

01:38:34   them and doing something like figuring [TS]

01:38:36   out if they're using lyft even if you [TS]

01:38:38   don't have the app and you know it's if [TS]

01:38:41   you know iOS you'd know what that sounds [TS]

01:38:43   like it should be impossible because [TS]

01:38:44   when an app is delete at all you know [TS]

01:38:46   it's you can't do things like you could [TS]

01:38:47   do on traditional PCs like sneakily put [TS]

01:38:51   a background process in a system [TS]

01:38:54   directory so even if your app is deleted [TS]

01:38:56   you've still got this remnant of you [TS]

01:38:58   behind you know that's the whole point [TS]

01:39:00   of these containers that apps ship and [TS]

01:39:02   now is that when you delete the app as a [TS]

01:39:03   user just hold the app make it jiggle [TS]

01:39:06   hit the X anything it could run on your [TS]

01:39:09   phone is gone but that's not what they [TS]

01:39:12   were doing I think basically we're still [TS]

01:39:14   not sure exactly what was going on but [TS]

01:39:16   basically they were quote-unquote [TS]

01:39:17   fingerprinting the phone and they were [TS]

01:39:19   figuring out a way to get a uniquely [TS]

01:39:21   identify a phone phoning that home to Oh [TS]

01:39:24   BRR so they could store it it's not like [TS]

01:39:27   they were just essentially [TS]

01:39:28   fingerprinting it and then using that [TS]

01:39:29   fingerprint as a way to tell whence when [TS]

01:39:30   the same device was reassessing the [TS]

01:39:32   service right I lost my train of thought [TS]

01:39:33   there but that's exactly right and it [TS]

01:39:35   was to counter some sort of fraud that [TS]

01:39:37   was going on in China where I think [TS]

01:39:39   basically the story was that they had [TS]

01:39:40   like a promotion to get people to start [TS]

01:39:42   using uber where you could get a free [TS]

01:39:44   ride if you're new to BRR [TS]

01:39:47   and if you're a driver and you pick up [TS]

01:39:49   one of these free rides you still get [TS]

01:39:51   the credit as a driver they're not [TS]

01:39:53   you know ubers the corporation is eating [TS]

01:39:56   the free ride not the drivers because [TS]

01:39:58   you know drivers would rightly revolt [TS]

01:40:00   so what drivers are doing is setting up [TS]

01:40:02   some kind of scam where they would get [TS]

01:40:05   stolen iPhones and configure them as new [TS]

01:40:07   and put the uber app on and get the free [TS]

01:40:09   ride and pick them up you know like me [TS]

01:40:12   and you could work as a team and I'll [TS]

01:40:13   pick you up and with the free thing and [TS]

01:40:16   drop you off and then you erase the [TS]

01:40:17   phone and and put it on all over and [TS]

01:40:20   pretend to be somebody new and get [TS]

01:40:23   another free ride and I pick you up and [TS]

01:40:24   you know somehow bilking them out of [TS]

01:40:26   free rides like that [TS]

01:40:28   and so if they could uniquely identify [TS]

01:40:31   the phone it would it would it I guess [TS]

01:40:34   it did actually allow them to sort of [TS]

01:40:35   block that sort of thing where they [TS]

01:40:37   could tell hey this phones collected [TS]

01:40:38   free rides twice already forget it you [TS]

01:40:40   know and abruptly con a company that [TS]

01:40:42   less regulations get in the way of their [TS]

01:40:43   doing you know doing business right so [TS]

01:40:47   the basic story you know and again this [TS]

01:40:49   is it certainly did not seem to come [TS]

01:40:51   from Apple's side it seemed to more [TS]

01:40:54   likely come from somebody on ubers side [TS]

01:40:57   but the gist was that you know Tim Cook [TS]

01:41:00   supposedly told him hey so knock it off [TS]

01:41:02   yeah and they did oh and the other thing [TS]

01:41:04   that they had was that the somehow knew [TS]

01:41:05   that Apple might look at this in app [TS]

01:41:07   review and they put at Cal annex request [TS]

01:41:10   put a geofence around apples campus so [TS]

01:41:13   that when uber app was running within [TS]

01:41:16   you know X distance of Cupertino it [TS]

01:41:18   wouldn't do the fingerprinting that's [TS]

01:41:21   it's a remarkable to me that a company [TS]

01:41:23   that is such a based on such like [TS]

01:41:24   geolocation technology we think you know [TS]

01:41:27   not think about Apple having other [TS]

01:41:28   offices like well Sunnyvale what are [TS]

01:41:30   they doing Oh San Francisco what's [TS]

01:41:32   happening with uber Boston what's going [TS]

01:41:34   on here it's I know if it's hubris or [TS]

01:41:38   naivete or some mixture of both well [TS]

01:41:40   both but I think hubris largely an [TS]

01:41:42   arrogance and and the outrage on Twitter [TS]

01:41:45   and you know in a moral sense it was [TS]

01:41:47   correct was you know why in the world [TS]

01:41:49   does Ober just Kim Tim Cook give Boober [TS]

01:41:51   hey knock it off [TS]

01:41:55   slap on the wrist and give them a chance [TS]

01:41:57   to just remove this and stay in the App [TS]

01:41:59   Store when [TS]

01:42:00   um you know other apps if again just me [TS]

01:42:04   and you [TS]

01:42:05   jointly together make an app you know or [TS]

01:42:07   put a new version of Vesper out and it [TS]

01:42:10   tags and identifies phones they're just [TS]

01:42:13   going to kick the app out of the App [TS]

01:42:14   Store I I get it I see that you know in [TS]

01:42:21   a certain moral sense I see the argument [TS]

01:42:24   there that are just a sense that that's [TS]

01:42:26   it doesn't seem fair that a small guy [TS]

01:42:27   would get kicked out in a big company [TS]

01:42:30   let alone a big company full of jerks [TS]

01:42:32   like uber gets to stay in but that's the [TS]

01:42:35   way the world works right like uber has [TS]

01:42:37   some you know has more stature because [TS]

01:42:41   it's a super popular app that iPhone [TS]

01:42:43   users use and in some ways yes it's up [TS]

01:42:46   you know apples doing the right thing by [TS]

01:42:48   making identifying this and making it [TS]

01:42:51   stop [TS]

01:42:52   but our iPhone users as a whole call you [TS]

01:42:57   know however many 100 million of them [TS]

01:42:58   there are happier or sadder if uber is [TS]

01:43:02   literally kicked out of the App Store [TS]

01:43:03   yeah Pulaski it means the same thing [TS]

01:43:06   discussion we had with Facebook earlier [TS]

01:43:07   where Apple has to be pragmatic about [TS]

01:43:08   these things they have a certain amount [TS]

01:43:10   of like don't you have to wait these [TS]

01:43:11   things they can't all be done on a [TS]

01:43:12   strict black and white scale because [TS]

01:43:14   that sounds great in the abstract but [TS]

01:43:15   doesn't work in life and we make those [TS]

01:43:17   decisions all the time we as we will be [TS]

01:43:19   upset that apples not doing things [TS]

01:43:21   fairly or morally we have the same [TS]

01:43:22   problem when we're dealing with our [TS]

01:43:23   client or the same issues when we're [TS]

01:43:25   dealing with different people in our [TS]

01:43:26   lives it's that you know these companies [TS]

01:43:28   are all not they're not equal they're [TS]

01:43:29   companies which Apple has beholden their [TS]

01:43:31   companies to which Apple has absolutely [TS]

01:43:32   no interest in and they're companies [TS]

01:43:34   where maybe you burr is like this where [TS]

01:43:35   they sort of both need each other and it [TS]

01:43:37   would be devastating for uber to be off [TS]

01:43:39   of the iPhone but it would hurt Apple [TS]

01:43:41   considerably to have uber off the iPhone [TS]

01:43:42   as well yeah I think and I don't know [TS]

01:43:45   you know I don't know the backstory on [TS]

01:43:47   this I don't even know how much of it is [TS]

01:43:48   technique you know exactly what happened [TS]

01:43:50   it's all from this one Mike Isaac story [TS]

01:43:52   and doesn't seem like anybody's got to [TS]

01:43:53   follow up but what I would have liked to [TS]

01:43:55   have seen is not for Apple to kick [TS]

01:43:58   Cooper out of the store I really from a [TS]

01:43:59   pragmatic standpoint I understand why [TS]

01:44:01   that you know you I mean I I think it [TS]

01:44:04   might have happened if Kalin had said [TS]

01:44:06   that Tim Cook screw you we're going to [TS]

01:44:07   keep doing it you know [TS]

01:44:09   there's a certain you know all right you [TS]

01:44:11   know you get called into the principal [TS]

01:44:12   and maybe the principal gives you [TS]

01:44:13   another chance but you can't to give the [TS]

01:44:15   principal the finger right yeah but I [TS]

01:44:19   think what Apple what I would have liked [TS]

01:44:20   to seen them do if everything that we [TS]

01:44:22   know about this if we think we know [TS]

01:44:24   about the story is true is I think that [TS]

01:44:26   they should have made Eber disclose what [TS]

01:44:29   they had been doing in exact detail and [TS]

01:44:31   say here's the information we were [TS]

01:44:32   collecting about phones here's how we [TS]

01:44:35   did it and you know you know you have [TS]

01:44:37   our word that we've deleted our database [TS]

01:44:39   of these identifiers yeah ia refused [TS]

01:44:42   then I think Apple should have disclosed [TS]

01:44:44   it I that the part that is doesn't sit [TS]

01:44:47   right with me from what Apple did is [TS]

01:44:49   that Apple knew that they were doing [TS]

01:44:50   this they knew that their customers had [TS]

01:44:52   had their phones fingerprinted by uber [TS]

01:44:55   and Apple was apparently willing to to [TS]

01:45:02   let that go unknown I mean there's a [TS]

01:45:04   chance that maybe Apple did do something [TS]

01:45:06   which is that maybe Apple somebody at [TS]

01:45:08   Apple was the source from Mike Isaac for [TS]

01:45:10   that story and that by leaking that that [TS]

01:45:12   was their way of disclosing that that's [TS]

01:45:14   what Oprah had done [TS]

01:45:16   but I would have liked to have seen to [TS]

01:45:19   do it in a way that's on the record even [TS]

01:45:20   if it was Apple who was somebody at [TS]

01:45:21   Apple who was the anonymous source for [TS]

01:45:24   that I still think that this should have [TS]

01:45:25   been in a some sort of official [TS]

01:45:26   acknowledgement that this went on even [TS]

01:45:28   though I don't think it was all that [TS]

01:45:29   gross of a privacy violation in the [TS]

01:45:32   grand scheme of privacy violations yeah [TS]

01:45:34   so I think the you know if uber had been [TS]

01:45:36   literally tracking people I think it [TS]

01:45:38   would have forced a much greater [TS]

01:45:40   response from Apple or a much more [TS]

01:45:41   public response from Apple because [TS]

01:45:43   there's some offenses that are just so [TS]

01:45:45   egregious that there's no other [TS]

01:45:46   alternative but this to me is and [TS]

01:45:48   against the horrible analogy but if like [TS]

01:45:50   Grenada does something the US doesn't [TS]

01:45:52   like they can literally just drop in [TS]

01:45:53   take over the airport and do whatever [TS]

01:45:54   they want it doesn't work in Moscow [TS]

01:45:56   right right it is mutually assured [TS]

01:45:58   destruction there right well you know [TS]

01:46:00   and there maybe there's other countries [TS]

01:46:02   that are bigger there wouldn't be [TS]

01:46:03   mutually assured destruction like London [TS]

01:46:06   you can't just take the London Airport [TS]

01:46:08   right uh [TS]

01:46:09   well pick a country without nukes but [TS]

01:46:11   you know yeah Australia let's say yeah [TS]

01:46:13   classy knee I don't know cuz our [TS]

01:46:15   relations with Sydney I don't know if [TS]

01:46:17   you've heard they're a little rocky okay [TS]

01:46:19   uh but uh yeah it's not a bad [TS]

01:46:23   gee that you know yeah grenade is a [TS]

01:46:25   little different than you know bigger [TS]

01:46:27   countries yeah I still just feel like [TS]

01:46:31   they should have forgot you know in old [TS]

01:46:33   days this the funny part is you know in [TS]

01:46:35   the old days with any innocent days of [TS]

01:46:36   i/os you know it's just funny because it [TS]

01:46:40   it's hard I think it's hard for Apple [TS]

01:46:43   people who work at Apple to even think [TS]

01:46:45   from the perspective of like these ad [TS]

01:46:47   networks that want to do all this [TS]

01:46:48   tracking and stuff but in the old days [TS]

01:46:50   they were API is official API is not [TS]

01:46:52   like private API is but like it the idea [TS]

01:46:54   that you might want to uniquely identify [TS]

01:46:56   a phone was like a feature and it was [TS]

01:46:59   only once that started getting abused by [TS]

01:47:01   ad networks in privacy invasive ways [TS]

01:47:03   that Apple you know deprecated and then [TS]

01:47:05   remove those API yeah you could say just [TS]

01:47:07   take the edid right and carrot I think [TS]

01:47:10   is you wanted to write like when you [TS]

01:47:11   plug your phone into iTunes itunes can [TS]

01:47:13   still see it you see there's a unique [TS]

01:47:14   Device Identifier I think it's it [TS]

01:47:17   printed on the back of the phone still [TS]

01:47:18   in that small print I can't read it just [TS]

01:47:20   like so is but they used to sometimes on [TS]

01:47:23   some models that they would print it on [TS]

01:47:25   but you can go to the settings screen in [TS]

01:47:28   iOS and get the UDID you get the MAC [TS]

01:47:32   address in other words each Ethernet [TS]

01:47:34   port in the world yes a unique MAC [TS]

01:47:36   address that that can uniquely identify [TS]

01:47:38   a device I mean I remember in the old [TS]

01:47:41   days when when I first started being [TS]

01:47:42   used and it wasn't all that reliable [TS]

01:47:45   because people you know had you know [TS]

01:47:47   building their own pcs would take the [TS]

01:47:48   ethernet you know it was a card that you [TS]

01:47:52   could take out and so you know you [TS]

01:47:54   couldn't necessarily associate the [TS]

01:47:57   ethernet ID the MAC ID with a device but [TS]

01:47:59   obviously nobody is changing the MAC [TS]

01:48:01   idea of an iPhone there were all sorts [TS]

01:48:03   of ways to uniquely identify a device [TS]

01:48:05   that were officially supported and [TS]

01:48:06   Apple's one by one eliminated them all [TS]

01:48:10   but it's you know it's obvious to [TS]

01:48:12   anybody [TS]

01:48:13   when Apple eliminated those things that [TS]

01:48:15   figuring out a way around it to still [TS]

01:48:17   get a unique identifier on it on an [TS]

01:48:19   iPhone was contrary to Apple's [TS]

01:48:21   intentions like this is not a loophole [TS]

01:48:24   this was a direct circumvention yet you [TS]

01:48:27   know of a lock door you know anything [TS]

01:48:30   somebody leaves the door unlocked and [TS]

01:48:31   you go in you can maybe argue I didn't [TS]

01:48:33   know I wasn't supposed to go in the door [TS]

01:48:34   was a lock if you get to a door and it's [TS]

01:48:36   locked but [TS]

01:48:37   figure out a way to unlock it yeah did [TS]

01:48:40   you have no excuse yeah no totally and [TS]

01:48:43   again this is a is famous value and [TS]

01:48:45   sometimes they've been applauded for [TS]

01:48:46   their pugnacious you know a combative do [TS]

01:48:49   what we want to do aspirin you know [TS]

01:48:51   don't ask for permission and this is the [TS]

01:48:54   flip side of that all right the other [TS]

01:48:57   thing that rolled out of this story was [TS]

01:48:59   sort of an aside in this Mike Isaac a [TS]

01:49:03   story about uber in this collection of [TS]

01:49:06   data was that uber had been one of the [TS]

01:49:09   other theatres hits of all the shady [TS]

01:49:12   stuff that they've done but that they [TS]

01:49:13   paid money to a company called unroll me [TS]

01:49:17   or no I guess that was the parent [TS]

01:49:20   company of unroll me and they slice [TS]

01:49:21   slice analytics and that's a company [TS]

01:49:24   that's come up before in iPhone and [TS]

01:49:26   Apple related products where slices this [TS]

01:49:28   company that claims to have and it does [TS]

01:49:30   have access to people's in in boxes [TS]

01:49:33   because they offer these services where [TS]

01:49:35   they they let people sign up and get [TS]

01:49:38   some kind of rewards and exchange for [TS]

01:49:40   slice getting to see their incoming [TS]

01:49:41   email which again sounds crazy to me [TS]

01:49:46   that you know but you know some people [TS]

01:49:49   you know have different people yeah they [TS]

01:49:52   people do not see the value of their [TS]

01:49:55   data only they see the value of their [TS]

01:49:56   cash or their time despite the fact that [TS]

01:49:58   these companies will spend unlimited [TS]

01:49:59   amounts of time and money just to get [TS]

01:50:01   your data the slice has come up before [TS]

01:50:03   where they've they've used this data to [TS]

01:50:04   command and make projections about what [TS]

01:50:07   what iPhones people have bought and how [TS]

01:50:09   it compares your over a year because [TS]

01:50:10   their customers last year got so many [TS]

01:50:12   iPhone receipts in their email in the [TS]

01:50:15   first 72 hours since it went on sale and [TS]

01:50:17   this year to this and that and so I you [TS]

01:50:20   know my mention of them previously is I [TS]

01:50:22   don't really you know it's interesting I [TS]

01:50:23   don't think it's complete noise but I [TS]

01:50:25   don't trust data when it only comes from [TS]

01:50:27   people who've signed up for service that [TS]

01:50:29   lets internet marketing firm read all of [TS]

01:50:32   your email but they bought a company [TS]

01:50:34   called unroll me that offers a service [TS]

01:50:38   that again you filter all your email [TS]

01:50:40   through them and they make it easy to [TS]

01:50:42   like unsubscribe from things you can [TS]

01:50:45   unsubscribe to or to put all of your [TS]

01:50:49   not spam but like it you know newsletter [TS]

01:50:53   type things that would have an [TS]

01:50:54   unsubscribe me link at the bottom put [TS]

01:50:56   them all together in a folder or [TS]

01:50:58   collapsin or something like that and [TS]

01:51:00   these bastards it turns out were then [TS]

01:51:03   selling it they sold so they sold [TS]

01:51:05   information to Ober that using their [TS]

01:51:07   their access these people in boxes gave [TS]

01:51:10   you know uber bought like all of the [TS]

01:51:12   lyft receipts from these people [TS]

01:51:13   supposedly anonymized but like I wrote [TS]

01:51:16   on daring fireball will supposedly you [TS]

01:51:18   know an iPhone that you do a factory [TS]

01:51:20   reset on is anonymized to an uber was [TS]

01:51:23   tracking that I don't can't trust them [TS]

01:51:27   there's all sorts of ways that they [TS]

01:51:29   could you know backwards correlate you [TS]

01:51:31   know even some somewhat anyway I think a [TS]

01:51:34   lot of people and a lot of people were [TS]

01:51:35   rightly like whoa I use this unroll me [TS]

01:51:37   I've there's absolutely no way that I [TS]

01:51:39   thought that something like my lyft [TS]

01:51:41   receipt would be sold to uber yeah and [TS]

01:51:46   it's again it's one of those things [TS]

01:51:47   where we don't appreciate the value of [TS]

01:51:48   our data and there's a bunch of apps [TS]

01:51:51   that you can just give permission like I [TS]

01:51:53   remember when I signed up for TripIt I [TS]

01:51:54   would just forward them an email with my [TS]

01:51:56   travel information they said why are you [TS]

01:51:57   going to this trouble just give us [TS]

01:51:58   access to your Gmail and at no and I [TS]

01:52:01   eventually I stopped using Gmail because [TS]

01:52:02   there's just so many services that want [TS]

01:52:04   to tie into it I know that's not exactly [TS]

01:52:06   an equivalency but I just don't want to [TS]

01:52:08   provide access to that stuff because [TS]

01:52:09   there's so much information in there and [TS]

01:52:11   mine is all just it's a business emails [TS]

01:52:12   all just a bunch of like travel stuff [TS]

01:52:14   but that that data is incredibly [TS]

01:52:16   valuable valuable to me and they're not [TS]

01:52:17   really they're not really making a fair [TS]

01:52:20   purchase decision there so the CEO and [TS]

01:52:23   founder of this company Joe had a and [TS]

01:52:27   the day after this came out he he he [TS]

01:52:31   wrote a blog post or he said our users [TS]

01:52:33   are the heart of our company and service [TS]

01:52:34   so it was heartbreaking to see that some [TS]

01:52:37   of our users were upset to learn about [TS]

01:52:38   how we monetize our free service and [TS]

01:52:41   while we try our best to be open about [TS]

01:52:42   our business model recent customer [TS]

01:52:44   feedback tells me we weren't explicit [TS]

01:52:46   enough and it really again it if you [TS]

01:52:49   read their Terms of Service yes it was [TS]

01:52:51   in their in certain words but people [TS]

01:52:54   don't read the Terms of Service and [TS]

01:52:56   everybody knows they don't and there was [TS]

01:52:57   certainly no bullet point in the main [TS]

01:53:00   ky you should sign up for this service [TS]

01:53:02   here's how we make money and I think [TS]

01:53:04   what it is is that people who haven't [TS]

01:53:06   just had their because they don't think [TS]

01:53:08   like this good good honest people who [TS]

01:53:10   just don't think that someone would do [TS]

01:53:12   something like this here about the [TS]

01:53:13   service they know that their inbox every [TS]

01:53:16   day that you know two thirds of it isn't [TS]

01:53:18   spam but also isn't like the most [TS]

01:53:20   important stuff and so something that [TS]

01:53:21   could help organize that so that the [TS]

01:53:23   actual like email from colleagues or [TS]

01:53:26   family or friends is all they're [TS]

01:53:28   organized sounds like a good deal [TS]

01:53:30   signs up for it and even if you say well [TS]

01:53:32   you know you're giving them access to [TS]

01:53:34   your email they might think ah you know [TS]

01:53:35   I don't really care there's nothing [TS]

01:53:36   there's nothing in there that I care [TS]

01:53:38   about but then later on you tell them [TS]

01:53:39   you know I know exactly what you bought [TS]

01:53:41   your husband for Father's Day last year [TS]

01:53:43   why yeah yeah you bought them this and [TS]

01:53:46   because we have your email and it's like [TS]

01:53:48   all of a sudden you tell them an example [TS]

01:53:50   like that or you tell them yeah yeah [TS]

01:53:52   they you know you know those four times [TS]

01:53:54   you got a lift yeah that we sent those [TS]

01:53:56   the uber well they knew when you were [TS]

01:53:58   out of that we knew you were traveling [TS]

01:53:59   you were out of the house nobody was at [TS]

01:54:00   your home I mean it's and this is not [TS]

01:54:02   new I remember 10 years ago 15 years ago [TS]

01:54:05   for example if you go to 7-eleven and [TS]

01:54:07   buy a coke coke has no idea you bought [TS]

01:54:09   it but 7-eleven does and they'll sell [TS]

01:54:10   that information back to coke but [TS]

01:54:12   they'll also sell to Pepsi for [TS]

01:54:13   competitive analysis and to like Lay's [TS]

01:54:15   potato chips so they can say we want to [TS]

01:54:16   be positioned next to coke on the on the [TS]

01:54:19   shelf not next to Pepsi and you think [TS]

01:54:21   that it's anonymous but it's not because [TS]

01:54:22   they could figure out based on one [TS]

01:54:24   unique identifier one phone number one [TS]

01:54:25   time or one email address or something [TS]

01:54:27   that you were the person buying the [TS]

01:54:29   diapers and the beer you know that that [TS]

01:54:31   supermarket that day anyway like I wrote [TS]

01:54:33   about this give me a fucking break that [TS]

01:54:34   they're heartbroken that their users [TS]

01:54:35   upset they're not upstate new their [TS]

01:54:38   users would be upset which is why they [TS]

01:54:39   hid exactly what they're doing in the [TS]

01:54:41   small print of the Terms of Service [TS]

01:54:42   they're upset because there were [TS]

01:54:45   suddenly the focus of a massive [TS]

01:54:47   spotlight of a story that every [TS]

01:54:49   reasonable person would say wow that is [TS]

01:54:51   outrageous and his offensive event I [TS]

01:54:53   wouldn't use that service which was [TS]

01:54:54   obviously going to hurt their brand and [TS]

01:54:56   make people I I never even heard of this [TS]

01:54:58   unroll me before so the first time I [TS]

01:54:59   heard of it was in the context of don't [TS]

01:55:02   sign up for this thing yeah or I know [TS]

01:55:04   people who use it and they were they [TS]

01:55:06   were shocked right like like if you [TS]

01:55:08   think in the back of your mind that [TS]

01:55:09   signing up for a free service that can [TS]

01:55:11   read and index all of your email is a [TS]

01:55:13   bad idea [TS]

01:55:14   guess what it is heartbroken they got [TS]

01:55:17   caught I think he said that well right [TS]

01:55:18   right and it you know there was somebody [TS]

01:55:21   on on Hacker News who posted that he [TS]

01:55:24   worked for a company that was thinking [TS]

01:55:26   about acquiring them and when they did [TS]

01:55:28   their due diligence that unroll me was [TS]

01:55:30   literally keeping an archive of every [TS]

01:55:33   single email of every single email that [TS]

01:55:36   all their customers ever got since they [TS]

01:55:38   signed up for the service yeah [TS]

01:55:40   and that they were sort of served in a [TS]

01:55:42   scary fashion in Amazon AWS buckets yeah [TS]

01:55:45   and I mean that's part of the problem [TS]

01:55:46   here is those buckets could be hacked it [TS]

01:55:48   could be an employee decides to abuse [TS]

01:55:49   the information contained in there when [TS]

01:55:50   there's extra copies of your stuff [TS]

01:55:52   hanging around you no longer have [TS]

01:55:53   control over that information yeah what [TS]

01:55:56   else we have I got I got this Hulu live [TS]

01:55:58   had they've shipped a new live TV thing [TS]

01:56:00   a $40 a month like cable cutter package [TS]

01:56:02   do you see this just came out today I [TS]

01:56:05   did I'm jealous there's all these great [TS]

01:56:06   services in the US I just simply don't [TS]

01:56:07   have access to it and you guys have none [TS]

01:56:09   of that [TS]

01:56:09   in Canada no like where we allow our [TS]

01:56:12   telcos to own our broadcasters so we [TS]

01:56:14   have Bell and Rogers who owned those [TS]

01:56:16   things and they don't wanna give it to [TS]

01:56:17   us so I I looked into this recently [TS]

01:56:20   because I had to switch [TS]

01:56:23   edit we moved so I had to get new cable [TS]

01:56:26   service and Internet service and stuff [TS]

01:56:28   and at first because we were a TiVo [TS]

01:56:31   family we've always been a TiVo family [TS]

01:56:33   and I couldn't get and this always [TS]

01:56:34   happens this is happening 10 years every [TS]

01:56:36   time I've tried to say changing or [TS]

01:56:38   getting a new TiVo or something like [TS]

01:56:39   that the cable card thing doesn't work [TS]

01:56:41   there's like a card and and it's I guess [TS]

01:56:44   the idea is that that they try to make [TS]

01:56:47   this super secure it's the way that they [TS]

01:56:49   can get the security of the cable signal [TS]

01:56:51   on a device they don't own and part of [TS]

01:56:54   it I think is just that they want you to [TS]

01:56:55   buy their stupid box they have their box [TS]

01:56:57   I don't want their box I want TiVo but [TS]

01:57:01   we had a hassle getting our TiVo working [TS]

01:57:03   and so I I looked into these services [TS]

01:57:06   for the first time seriously because I [TS]

01:57:07   don't watch a lot of TV or cable TV but [TS]

01:57:11   but my wife does and I looked at like [TS]

01:57:15   the PlayStation View service and it [TS]

01:57:18   looks great it's it I think it's like 30 [TS]

01:57:20   bucks a month or 40 bucks a month I [TS]

01:57:21   don't know but it's it's a reasonable [TS]

01:57:23   price compared to cable and I looked at [TS]

01:57:25   the list of channels they had [TS]

01:57:27   and it's I couldn't find any channels [TS]

01:57:29   missing that I ever watch and I asked [TS]

01:57:31   Amy to look and she you know as far as [TS]

01:57:33   she could tell they had all the channels [TS]

01:57:35   that she watches they had some it varies [TS]

01:57:38   by City here in the US but like it in [TS]

01:57:40   Philadelphia [TS]

01:57:41   you get ABC all the major networks not [TS]

01:57:44   just the cable networks you get the [TS]

01:57:46   broadcast networks apparently in some [TS]

01:57:48   cities there's the play station for you [TS]

01:57:50   to missus on them but it like it I [TS]

01:57:54   honestly have just because I don't watch [TS]

01:57:56   a lot of TV and I'm happy with the TiVo [TS]

01:57:59   and for what I do watch and what I when [TS]

01:58:01   I watched on my TV I'm using Apple TV [TS]

01:58:04   usually um it just hadn't been paying [TS]

01:58:06   attention I know the phrase cable [TS]

01:58:07   cutting I know what it means but I [TS]

01:58:09   wasn't aware that when you sign up for [TS]

01:58:11   something like this just how much it's [TS]

01:58:13   it's equivalent to having cable TV in [TS]

01:58:16   terms of what you get per month you know [TS]

01:58:18   that it's the same channels and content [TS]

01:58:20   it's just delivered in a different [TS]

01:58:22   fashion and so Hulu's getting into it [TS]

01:58:25   now there but it's weird like Hulu like [TS]

01:58:28   one of the network's that they don't get [TS]

01:58:29   is AMC and there's a couple of good [TS]

01:58:30   shows on AMC and I don't understand you [TS]

01:58:34   know what the what how that you know [TS]

01:58:37   obviously I guess that's all [TS]

01:58:38   negotiations but somehow Hulu doesn't [TS]

01:58:41   have AMC and my question for you is [TS]

01:58:43   where's Apple in this because I feel [TS]

01:58:45   like like this PlayStation View thing is [TS]

01:58:48   so much exactly like what we've been [TS]

01:58:51   hearing Apple might do at what the heck [TS]

01:58:55   do you think is going on yeah and it's [TS]

01:58:57   especially frustrating because one of [TS]

01:58:58   the reasons that we kept hearing that [TS]

01:58:59   the Apple TV who didn't launch earlier [TS]

01:59:01   is that they were working on these [TS]

01:59:02   over-the-top services or originally an [TS]

01:59:04   Apple video version of what Apple music [TS]

01:59:06   was where you'd pay one price $30 and [TS]

01:59:08   you have access to all the major [TS]

01:59:09   channels and then the negotiations broke [TS]

01:59:12   down and then we heard them again they [TS]

01:59:13   become like a set-top box sort of thing [TS]

01:59:14   and those broke down and it sort of [TS]

01:59:16   reminds me of music when it went DRM [TS]

01:59:19   free they just didn't give it to Apple [TS]

01:59:20   it was DRM free on Amazon mp3 first and [TS]

01:59:23   they wanted to break apples hold on the [TS]

01:59:25   music industry and that was one of the [TS]

01:59:26   levers they tried to pull and then [TS]

01:59:28   eventually it broke down and Apple got [TS]

01:59:29   and DRM free mp3 music like everybody [TS]

01:59:32   else and I wonder if there's still this [TS]

01:59:34   sort of feeling in the entertainment [TS]

01:59:36   industry that Apple destroyed their [TS]

01:59:38   music business and they'll be damned if [TS]

01:59:39   they let Apple [TS]

01:59:40   destroy their video business and it ends [TS]

01:59:42   up being not an advantage to Apple that [TS]

01:59:43   they did iTunes they did Apple music but [TS]

01:59:45   a disadvantage and now it's these [TS]

01:59:47   companies are more reticent to give up [TS]

01:59:49   all this product and you want to make [TS]

01:59:50   sure they see the market with a lot of [TS]

01:59:51   active competitors before they agree to [TS]

01:59:53   terms with Apple yeah I think that that [TS]

01:59:55   might be it I really do that Apple is [TS]

01:59:57   having a much harder time negotiating [TS]

01:59:58   just because [TS]

01:59:58   just because [TS]

02:00:00   is exactly what you said and as nothing [TS]

02:00:02   really to do about dollar amounts but [TS]

02:00:03   just sort of a vague notion that the [TS]

02:00:05   entertainment industry feels like Apple [TS]

02:00:06   picked their pocket last time yeah even [TS]

02:00:09   though I don't think there's any aspect [TS]

02:00:10   of it that wasn't above the board I just [TS]

02:00:12   think that they I think basically they [TS]

02:00:15   thought when they first did you know [TS]

02:00:17   allowed Apple to create the iTunes Store [TS]

02:00:19   that Apple has had this reputation as a [TS]

02:00:21   niche player yes and you know the iPod [TS]

02:00:24   at the time was a Mac only device and so [TS]

02:00:27   it limited you know even if it was [TS]

02:00:29   wildly successful among the all the [TS]

02:00:30   people who could get an iPod got an iPod [TS]

02:00:32   it still wasn't that big of a market [TS]

02:00:33   because it would only be one-to-one with [TS]

02:00:35   the number of people who have a Mac and [TS]

02:00:37   that they just never foresaw that Apple [TS]

02:00:40   you know and you know even people who [TS]

02:00:41   don't pay close attention to the [TS]

02:00:43   computer industry had the basic rough [TS]

02:00:46   outline of a sketch where Apple was this [TS]

02:00:48   little tiny California company that was [TS]

02:00:51   like a ninety nine to one dwarf compared [TS]

02:00:54   to Microsoft and Windows and PCs no I [TS]

02:00:58   think that's it entirely and there was [TS]

02:00:59   that famous quote and I know you [TS]

02:01:00   reference this recently in the Netflix [TS]

02:01:02   article where Steve Jobs said your [TS]

02:01:04   competition is free and he needs piracy [TS]

02:01:06   and it's theft and it was Napster and we [TS]

02:01:08   just saw that's with Netflix we're [TS]

02:01:09   orange is the new black was essentially [TS]

02:01:11   stolen and held for ransom but the the [TS]

02:01:13   privacy like the piracy rates for [TS]

02:01:15   Netflix are extremely low because the [TS]

02:01:17   service is so popular but also so [TS]

02:01:19   reasonably priced right and so [TS]

02:01:21   reasonably policed in terms of like [TS]

02:01:23   sharing you know that your you know your [TS]

02:01:26   kid goes to college and still has the [TS]

02:01:28   family Netflix password so what they [TS]

02:01:31   don't care they don't care if you know [TS]

02:01:33   your kids going to University of [TS]

02:01:34   Michigan and your family lives in [TS]

02:01:35   Philadelphia and obviously you know uh [TS]

02:01:38   you know that they do the geolocation on [TS]

02:01:41   IP and they know that they don't care [TS]

02:01:43   it's like it's you know I'm sure that [TS]

02:01:45   there's some kick off we're at a certain [TS]

02:01:47   X number of people using the same [TS]

02:01:49   Netflix account it automatically [TS]

02:01:51   triggers something but if that number is [TS]

02:01:52   reasonable they don't care they fit so [TS]

02:01:54   reasonably I actually had a family [TS]

02:01:56   member who was using my account when [TS]

02:01:57   when they were staying with me and they [TS]

02:01:58   went got their own place and they you [TS]

02:02:01   know they used my account for a little [TS]

02:02:02   while I think a month then they got [TS]

02:02:03   their own because it was so reasonably [TS]

02:02:04   priced they just didn't want to be bound [TS]

02:02:06   to my like they didn't wanna see the [TS]

02:02:07   same things that I was watching all the [TS]

02:02:09   time I sorry I just feel like you cannot [TS]

02:02:12   overstate [TS]

02:02:13   how important that is to Netflix's [TS]

02:02:16   runaway success their generosity in [TS]

02:02:19   terms of or not generosity but relaxed [TS]

02:02:22   Ness almost like a pragmatism right [TS]

02:02:25   comparing Comcast with the the Comcast [TS]

02:02:27   attitude with these cable cards in the [TS]

02:02:29   TiVo where literally the actual service [TS]

02:02:31   person came to the house twice and [TS]

02:02:33   failed to get one to actually work and [TS]

02:02:37   register they treat you like a criminal [TS]

02:02:38   not like a customer when I say that they [TS]

02:02:41   were very nice to me it's just that [TS]

02:02:42   they've set up the technology the [TS]

02:02:44   service people were super nice but that [TS]

02:02:46   the technology is designed from a [TS]

02:02:47   perspective to be super super [TS]

02:02:49   persnickety in terms of this and I the [TS]

02:02:52   only logic behind it is that they're [TS]

02:02:54   fearful that I'm going to like pop the [TS]

02:02:55   cable card out of my TiVo and go to your [TS]

02:02:58   house and put it in your TiVo and watch [TS]

02:03:00   Game of Thrones one Sunday night for [TS]

02:03:02   free it you're hooking up to a computer [TS]

02:03:04   and get their high quality stream of [TS]

02:03:06   Star Wars I guess on the internet [TS]

02:03:07   whatever it's crazy but the Netflix [TS]