The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:01 ◼   ► the incomparable

00:00:05 ◼   ► number 351 May 2017 welcome back

00:00:13 ◼   ► everybody to the incomparable I am your

00:00:14 ◼   ► host Jason stell I'm here this time to

00:00:17 ◼   ► talk about another one of these this

00:00:19 ◼   ► raft of interesting science fiction

00:00:22 ◼   ► slash fantasy TV series that finished

00:00:25 ◼   ► airing their seasons this spring that I

00:00:28 ◼   ► enjoyed a lot and I want to talk to

00:00:29 ◼   ► people about them and so what what I do

00:00:32 ◼   ► is I have a podcast so I get to talk

00:00:34 ◼   ► about them with people on a podcast

00:00:35 ◼   ► instead of just in real life like most

00:00:38 ◼   ► people so in this episode we're going to

00:00:41 ◼   ► talk about humans a TV series that aired

00:00:44 ◼   ► last fall actually on channel 4 in the

00:00:46 ◼   ► UK and this spring on AMC in the u.s. we

00:00:50 ◼   ► covered season 1 in episode 263 of the

00:00:54 ◼   ► incomparable along with the first season

00:00:55 ◼   ► of mr. robot actually and we're back to

00:00:58 ◼   ► talk about season 2 of humans joining me

00:01:01 ◼   ► to talk about it are these two fine

00:01:02 ◼   ► gentlemen Moises Chu yan hello Jason how

00:01:06 ◼   ► may I be of assistance

00:01:07 ◼   ► thank you boy says it's good to have you

00:01:09 ◼   ► here also here is he a human or not wait

00:01:13 ◼   ► a second that's a wrong podcast it's Jon

00:01:15 ◼   ► siracusa hello sometimes the a is upside

00:01:18 ◼   ► down I know what is that what does that

00:01:19 ◼   ► mean it and then it flips around is it

00:01:22 ◼   ► like a little person going yeh with its

00:01:24 ◼   ► arms and then it puts this arm down like

00:01:25 ◼   ► oh or very confusing yeah they do that

00:01:30 ◼   ► in the credits to all the a is flip

00:01:31 ◼   ► around they're upside down maybe there's

00:01:35 ◼   ► a maybe there's something fee Matic

00:01:36 ◼   ► there I don't know so so humans before

00:01:39 ◼   ► we fire off the spoiler horn and talk

00:01:40 ◼   ► about the second season of humans I

00:01:41 ◼   ► thought we would talk a little bit in

00:01:43 ◼   ► general about it this show this is

00:01:45 ◼   ► obviously the second season we did talk

00:01:47 ◼   ► about it before the the when it

00:01:49 ◼   ► premiered along with mr. robot the

00:01:52 ◼   ► summer before last I always thought it

00:01:54 ◼   ► was amusing that the show these two

00:01:56 ◼   ► shows the show about humans is called

00:01:58 ◼   ► mr. robot and the show about robots is

00:02:00 ◼   ► called humans but it's not alert both

00:02:05 ◼   ► shows are actually about humans actually

00:02:07 ◼   ► about humans yeah turns turn out tones

00:02:10 ◼   ► just it's amazing how that happens the

00:02:13 ◼   ► idea here is that it's a near-future

00:02:15 ◼   ► world that's basically like ours

00:02:18 ◼   ► that these replicant type androids

00:02:21 ◼   ► called synths exist they're very

00:02:24 ◼   ► human-like in appearance which means

00:02:27 ◼   ► they can be played by humans as actors

00:02:29 ◼   ► but they are not sentient they are sort

00:02:33 ◼   ► of intelligent enough to do jobs but

00:02:36 ◼   ► they're they're kind of a just a almost

00:02:39 ◼   ► like a slave race but they're not

00:02:41 ◼   ► sentient they're just helpers they're in

00:02:42 ◼   ► a human-shaped extension of technology

00:02:45 ◼   ► but and this is the classic science

00:02:48 ◼   ► fiction but a few of them become

00:02:51 ◼   ► sentient and it raises all sorts of

00:02:54 ◼   ► questions about how they interact in

00:02:56 ◼   ► this culture and how their other fellow

00:02:58 ◼   ► since are being treated there's a

00:03:00 ◼   ► question of if you could make all of the

00:03:02 ◼   ► synths intelligent what would happen to

00:03:04 ◼   ► society creating an entire race of

00:03:07 ◼   ► sentient beings that human has been you

00:03:09 ◼   ► humans have been using just four four

00:03:11 ◼   ► four servants and so the first season

00:03:15 ◼   ► dealt with a lot of these issues and

00:03:16 ◼   ► then the second season deals with even

00:03:19 ◼   ► more of these issues what what what

00:03:22 ◼   ► should we say to people who maybe

00:03:23 ◼   ► haven't started this show about what

00:03:25 ◼   ► makes it interesting well it's a it's a

00:03:28 ◼   ► British show it is so it takes it's

00:03:31 ◼   ► supposed to take place like in London

00:03:33 ◼   ► right is that where they are yeah more

00:03:34 ◼   ► or less

00:03:34 ◼   ► yeah we the outlying areas you know

00:03:37 ◼   ► maybe I don't know Essex I don't who

00:03:40 ◼   ► knows sure yeah so what I would say to

00:03:42 ◼   ► tell people to check out this show is it

00:03:46 ◼   ► sounds like your basic sci-fi show and

00:03:48 ◼   ► if it was on American television the

00:03:49 ◼   ► premise you just described would be like

00:03:51 ◼   ► death you would just know would be

00:03:52 ◼   ► handled poorly but because it's a

00:03:55 ◼   ► British show a it does things a little

00:03:57 ◼   ► bit differently than you might expect

00:03:58 ◼   ► if you're as an American television

00:04:00 ◼   ► viewer so there's a little bit of extra

00:04:02 ◼   ► you know off-kilter flavor to it and be

00:04:07 ◼   ► I feel like it is it doesn't fall into

00:04:10 ◼   ► most of the traps that every American

00:04:12 ◼   ► show that wants to be sci-fi as what was

00:04:14 ◼   ► that show that was on briefly there was

00:04:15 ◼   ► like a like a buddy cop show where there

00:04:18 ◼   ► was a police officer and yeah almost

00:04:20 ◼   ► almost almost human with it with Karl

00:04:22 ◼   ► Urban in Libra that's a great example of

00:04:25 ◼   ► a similar issue premise handled way

00:04:29 ◼   ► worse by an American show so especially

00:04:32 ◼   ► season

00:04:32 ◼   ► we'll get to what I thought of season 2

00:04:35 ◼   ► and a little bit especially season 1

00:04:36 ◼   ► takes a light touch and really does

00:04:40 ◼   ► concentrate on the characters and takes

00:04:43 ◼   ► its time to get where it's going and

00:04:45 ◼   ► it's cool and refreshing

00:04:47 ◼   ► I agree the the basic premise the show's

00:04:51 ◼   ► an adaptation of I think it's a Swedish

00:04:52 ◼   ► series it's it's European in some

00:04:54 ◼   ► respect and sometimes when it's late at

00:04:56 ◼   ► night my brain gets addled and I refer

00:04:59 ◼   ► to all European countries as one

00:05:01 ◼   ► contiguous union of states I don't know

00:05:03 ◼   ► in the same way that Jason refers to all

00:05:06 ◼   ► British broadcast channels if you say

00:05:07 ◼   ► see something

00:05:08 ◼   ► yeah it's BBC for BBC channel 4 is this

00:05:11 ◼   ► case yeah BBC Sky BBC Sky whatever

00:05:14 ◼   ► that's just the actual sky in England is

00:05:16 ◼   ► the BBC sky as far as I'm concerned it's

00:05:18 ◼   ► usually cloud all the great BBC's all of

00:05:20 ◼   ► them and the the thing that we get in

00:05:24 ◼   ► the first season is a different angle

00:05:27 ◼   ► than the original show necessarily took

00:05:30 ◼   ► where it kind of it kind of starts out

00:05:31 ◼   ► action movie like in the middle of

00:05:33 ◼   ► something and you know some stuffs going

00:05:36 ◼   ► on we kind of take take the gentle

00:05:38 ◼   ► approach into this whole series of ideas

00:05:42 ◼   ► and concepts and what-ifs and questions

00:05:45 ◼   ► that play out across the I guess you

00:05:48 ◼   ► would say the landscape of to two

00:05:50 ◼   ► different families that are coming

00:05:52 ◼   ► together and ripping apart from the

00:05:53 ◼   ► inside in different respects one of them

00:05:55 ◼   ► a suburban type domestic family and the

00:05:57 ◼   ► other a family of synthetics who have

00:06:01 ◼   ► become self-aware that are not the kind

00:06:03 ◼   ► of I guess you would say in the

00:06:06 ◼   ► classical definition of robot slave

00:06:09 ◼   ► tools that happen to look talk and act

00:06:13 ◼   ► in many ways like human beings to the

00:06:16 ◼   ► extent that they can be played by

00:06:17 ◼   ► British actors who just wear wigs

00:06:19 ◼   ► colored contacts and adjust their

00:06:21 ◼   ► movement slightly and I you know I like

00:06:25 ◼   ► that they don't draw things out in some

00:06:29 ◼   ► respects in the first season something

00:06:31 ◼   ► that was mentioned back in episode 263

00:06:34 ◼   ► when you guys talked about this and mr.

00:06:35 ◼   ► robot and thankfully their chapter

00:06:37 ◼   ► markers so if for some reason you're not

00:06:38 ◼   ► caught up on mr. robot you can just skip

00:06:41 ◼   ► straight to the humans bit is that is

00:06:43 ◼   ► that the the show

00:06:45 ◼   ► ended its first season in a way that

00:06:47 ◼   ► that is kind of crazy making but that

00:06:50 ◼   ► I'm okay with in in ways that we'll get

00:06:54 ◼   ► into after the spoiler or into season

00:06:56 ◼   ► two to an extent but I'm it's it's a

00:06:58 ◼   ► show that has such a complexity of

00:07:01 ◼   ► multi-threaded storylines going on

00:07:03 ◼   ► simultaneously it's not just that

00:07:05 ◼   ► there's an a plot and a B plot there's

00:07:07 ◼   ► an a sub header 1 sub header 2 sub

00:07:09 ◼   ► header 3 series of plots going on that

00:07:13 ◼   ► are inter woven and simultaneous but at

00:07:16 ◼   ► once not cheap to the extent of

00:07:19 ◼   ► something like 2005 Best Picture winner

00:07:21 ◼   ► crash where everything just happens to

00:07:24 ◼   ► have something to do with everything

00:07:25 ◼   ► else this this for me is much more the

00:07:29 ◼   ► Internet of Things as people and

00:07:32 ◼   ► grappling with with what a parallel

00:07:35 ◼   ► current modern era would would do when

00:07:39 ◼   ► faced with this stuff in a way that

00:07:40 ◼   ► doesn't feel cheap and tacked on and

00:07:43 ◼   ► plastic and thoroughly thoroughly ruined

00:07:46 ◼   ► by by american-ness which i think is a

00:07:50 ◼   ► probably mischaracterizing but agreeing

00:07:52 ◼   ► with with the argument that john had the

00:07:55 ◼   ► other thing that i love about the show

00:07:56 ◼   ► like a lot of BBC itv BBC Sky type shows

00:08:00 ◼   ► is that there's a cornucopia of folks

00:08:02 ◼   ► that are in the regular cast that you

00:08:03 ◼   ► know you've got mr. Grove from the mr.

00:08:05 ◼   ► selfridge show that we have on PBS here

00:08:07 ◼   ► in the States

00:08:08 ◼   ► Katherine Parkinson from the IT Crowd

00:08:10 ◼   ► Gemma chan who has like three lines and

00:08:13 ◼   ► fantastic beasts and where to find them

00:08:15 ◼   ► is is one of the you know most you know

00:08:18 ◼   ► face forward you know characters in the

00:08:21 ◼   ► show in season two we get carrie anne

00:08:23 ◼   ► moss from the matrix and without dipping

00:08:28 ◼   ► into the spoiler side of things one of

00:08:29 ◼   ► the things that that I think season 2

00:08:31 ◼   ► earned is that we we don't just see this

00:08:36 ◼   ► technological revolution as it were from

00:08:39 ◼   ► one side of the Atlantic we get a look

00:08:42 ◼   ► at what's going on in Silicon Valley and

00:08:44 ◼   ► the types of people with a gigantic

00:08:46 ◼   ► amount of money and not as many morals

00:08:49 ◼   ► and how they are deciding to proceed in

00:08:52 ◼   ► this brave new world of sentient AI yeah

00:08:55 ◼   ► I'd say jumping on something John said

00:08:58 ◼   ► there - about how it does

00:08:59 ◼   ► feel because it's a British show it

00:09:01 ◼   ► feels different I like that it that

00:09:03 ◼   ► about it that makes it feel like it

00:09:05 ◼   ► doesn't have it doesn't feel like it has

00:09:07 ◼   ► high stakes when in fact it actually has

00:09:09 ◼   ► incredibly high stakes and it does feel

00:09:11 ◼   ► like it is it is a family drama in a lot

00:09:15 ◼   ► of ways it's not set in some sort of

00:09:18 ◼   ► future dystopia it's set in essentially

00:09:20 ◼   ► what feels like the present day except

00:09:22 ◼   ► for the science fictional elements there

00:09:23 ◼   ► are a lot of things I like about that

00:09:25 ◼   ► yeah it does it doesn't feel like the

00:09:26 ◼   ► the new Planet of the Apes movies but

00:09:29 ◼   ► they're similar levels of stakes of Oh

00:09:31 ◼   ► know what's going to happen right this

00:09:34 ◼   ► this does not I don't know either does

00:09:37 ◼   ► this not bode well or do we bring this

00:09:39 ◼   ► upon ourselves and we're looking at at

00:09:42 ◼   ► and I guess you would say the the alien

00:09:46 ◼   ► coexistence sort of sort of struggle but

00:09:50 ◼   ► from something that that was really

00:09:52 ◼   ► wholly created by ourselves well we

00:09:54 ◼   ► should we should probably just fire off

00:09:56 ◼   ► the spoiler horn and talk about talk

00:09:58 ◼   ► about season two of humans but I

00:10:01 ◼   ► definitely think it's on Amazon Prime in

00:10:04 ◼   ► the US the first season so you might

00:10:06 ◼   ► want to give it a watch and see what you

00:10:08 ◼   ► think of this UK take on questions of

00:10:13 ◼   ► sentience and and where these creatures

00:10:16 ◼   ► might fit in our society and how how the

00:10:18 ◼   ► existence of these kinds of beings might

00:10:20 ◼   ► affect humanity in fact it affect the

00:10:24 ◼   ► labour market which is actually I think

00:10:25 ◼   ► one of perhaps it's more trenchant

00:10:29 ◼   ► topics even though most labor is not

00:10:32 ◼   ► being replaced by robots walking around

00:10:36 ◼   ► looking like humans it's still an issue

00:10:37 ◼   ► of the future of the labour market but

00:10:39 ◼   ► with automation so there's a lot of

00:10:41 ◼   ► different things to touch this on but

00:10:42 ◼   ► we're going to blow up the spoiler horn

00:10:43 ◼   ► here and and dive in to a little bit

00:10:45 ◼   ► more about season two of robots

00:10:48 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:10:52 ◼   ► all right things get really different in

00:10:54 ◼   ► season two um they're there part of me

00:10:57 ◼   ► thinks I'm wondering what you guys think

00:10:58 ◼   ► about this part of me thinks that season

00:11:00 ◼   ► one was originally conceived with more

00:11:03 ◼   ► of an ending I said on the last podcast

00:11:05 ◼   ► I really felt like season one was

00:11:07 ◼   ► walking straight forward until the last

00:11:09 ◼   ► episode to make all the sense on the

00:11:12 ◼   ► whole planet conscious and then it very

00:11:14 ◼   ► quickly ran away from it at the end of

00:11:16 ◼   ► the last episode it felt to me as if the

00:11:19 ◼   ► whole show realized wait we don't want

00:11:21 ◼   ► to close off the story because we might

00:11:23 ◼   ► come back and do more episodes and so

00:11:26 ◼   ► season 2 has a little bit of a reset

00:11:28 ◼   ► where they kind of have to add in some

00:11:30 ◼   ► new storylines and figure out what to do

00:11:32 ◼   ► with all the characters and I think

00:11:34 ◼   ► there are parts of that that are

00:11:36 ◼   ► problematic that they struggle with some

00:11:38 ◼   ► of it figure out figuring out what to do

00:11:40 ◼   ► and the irony of it all is that I feel

00:11:42 ◼   ► like the last couple of scenes of the

00:11:45 ◼   ► last episode of season 2 are exactly

00:11:46 ◼   ► what I thought the last couple of scenes

00:11:48 ◼   ► of season 1 would be with some of the

00:11:50 ◼   ► characters mixed around so they sort of

00:11:52 ◼   ► got to that dramatic point anyway they

00:11:54 ◼   ► just decided to put it off a season well

00:11:56 ◼   ► on a basic overall outline side of

00:11:57 ◼   ► things I feel that decompression in

00:11:59 ◼   ► season 2 where they either expected

00:12:03 ◼   ► season 1 to maybe get a renewal pick up

00:12:07 ◼   ► or they expected that to pretty much be

00:12:09 ◼   ► it and just take the check to the bank

00:12:12 ◼   ► from AMC probably spending more of the

00:12:15 ◼   ► money on this than channel 4 did just

00:12:17 ◼   ► because American cable channels even

00:12:19 ◼   ► though you compare American cable to

00:12:22 ◼   ► American broadcast budgets and cable has

00:12:26 ◼   ► a fraction of the budget that broadcast

00:12:28 ◼   ► show does and you know back end

00:12:31 ◼   ► incentives and syndication and all that

00:12:33 ◼   ► kind of stuff but those numbers for

00:12:36 ◼   ► cable in terms of what people get paid

00:12:38 ◼   ► on the production side of things the

00:12:40 ◼   ► actors the directors the writers

00:12:41 ◼   ► everybody absolutely Dwarfs what what

00:12:45 ◼   ► British television production budgets

00:12:47 ◼   ► are like you know where you have someone

00:12:49 ◼   ► like Michelle Gomez from Doctor Who who

00:12:51 ◼   ► is like yeah we just we we just kind of

00:12:54 ◼   ► crank through it you guys it's great

00:12:56 ◼   ► that you guys love the show so much but

00:12:58 ◼   ► there is not a ton of money in British

00:13:00 ◼   ► TV and there's a reason that a lot of us

00:13:02 ◼   ► find ourselves

00:13:03 ◼   ► wanting to find a big film franchise to

00:13:06 ◼   ► attach ourselves to so as far as I can

00:13:08 ◼   ► tell

00:13:08 ◼   ► channel 4 probably does actually pay the

00:13:10 ◼   ► pay the load of it especially given that

00:13:12 ◼   ► channel 4 in a much smaller country gets

00:13:15 ◼   ► more people watching humans more people

00:13:18 ◼   ► watch humans in the UK in the u.s.

00:13:19 ◼   ► despite the massive disparity in

00:13:22 ◼   ► population and it is made by kudos in

00:13:25 ◼   ► the UK so it's probably on their

00:13:27 ◼   ► schedules and on their more of their

00:13:29 ◼   ► sort of budgets but even you know a

00:13:31 ◼   ► little bit of backing from the US it

00:13:33 ◼   ► probably has a better budget it just

00:13:36 ◼   ► plain makes it something that can be

00:13:37 ◼   ► done and instead of the British shows

00:13:39 ◼   ► that'll do two seasons and be done

00:13:41 ◼   ► they're suddenly going well it looks

00:13:44 ◼   ► like we can stretch this out a bit and

00:13:45 ◼   ► as much as I enjoyed season 2 it felt

00:13:48 ◼   ► like it felt like creating additional

00:13:51 ◼   ► runway to not run out of and and all I

00:13:56 ◼   ► mean that just there's there's a bunch

00:13:59 ◼   ► of cool dramatic stuff that happened

00:14:00 ◼   ► throughout the course season two and a

00:14:02 ◼   ► lot of cool character stuff that

00:14:03 ◼   ► happened but I hated that I enjoyed the

00:14:07 ◼   ► wrap-up of season two as feeling more

00:14:09 ◼   ► satisfying because it felt like what we

00:14:11 ◼   ► should have seen at the end of season

00:14:13 ◼   ► one in terms of progressing the story

00:14:14 ◼   ► along and they probably could have done

00:14:16 ◼   ► this whole show in like two six or eight

00:14:20 ◼   ► episode seasons and covered all of the

00:14:22 ◼   ► ground that they wanted to cover but

00:14:25 ◼   ► it's you know inserting new characters

00:14:27 ◼   ► inserting additional plot lines

00:14:28 ◼   ► inserting more supporting cast that are

00:14:31 ◼   ► that are conscious synths and that

00:14:33 ◼   ► that's that that's kind of the struggle

00:14:36 ◼   ► that I found myself with on when it

00:14:38 ◼   ► comes to season two could be like Friday

00:14:40 ◼   ► Night Lights right and Friday Night

00:14:42 ◼   ► Lights right you can just skip season

00:14:43 ◼   ► two and pretend it never happened to

00:14:45 ◼   ► just literally stitch the last episode

00:14:48 ◼   ► of season two on to season one and be

00:14:50 ◼   ► like and all the sense woke up yay

00:14:52 ◼   ► yeah it's like hey guess what okay you

00:14:54 ◼   ► watch none of this by the way

00:14:56 ◼   ► carrie-anne moss is here and she has her

00:14:58 ◼   ► daughter's consciousness or a backup

00:15:00 ◼   ► version of it uploaded into a bunch of

00:15:02 ◼   ► servers and also there is a synth who

00:15:05 ◼   ► became conscious and now the final

00:15:07 ◼   ► episode of season two is like a slasher

00:15:08 ◼   ► movie and most of season two really

00:15:10 ◼   ► comes off like a horror show I do like

00:15:13 ◼   ► the idea that not all the censor gentle

00:15:16 ◼   ► and that there is this psychopath synth

00:15:18 ◼   ► who is who is she slot were acting

00:15:21 ◼   ► logically but she does not care about

00:15:22 ◼   ► killing people or being violent but I

00:15:25 ◼   ► want to talk about Carrie and moss

00:15:26 ◼   ► because this is one of those things at

00:15:27 ◼   ► first there's part of me that's like is

00:15:29 ◼   ► this the American co-producer saying

00:15:30 ◼   ► let's get some American characters in

00:15:32 ◼   ► the show because she's American we start

00:15:35 ◼   ► out and she's in California a day at a

00:15:37 ◼   ► google-like company where there's a

00:15:39 ◼   ► there's a charismatic CEO who's a

00:15:43 ◼   ► wunderkind and he's got ideas about AI

00:15:45 ◼   ► and he's hired her to finally give her

00:15:48 ◼   ► the money she needs to further her

00:15:50 ◼   ► project and at the beginning of the

00:15:52 ◼   ► season I was really intrigued by that

00:15:54 ◼   ► storyline because the idea there is that

00:15:55 ◼   ► she has this AI in a computer and I

00:15:59 ◼   ► really like the the reflection there the

00:16:02 ◼   ► opposition there of we have we know

00:16:04 ◼   ► there's AI it's happened urgently in

00:16:06 ◼   ► these synths out in the world and then

00:16:09 ◼   ► here we have a researcher who's trying

00:16:10 ◼   ► to build AI in a computer completely

00:16:14 ◼   ► different tack tactic and technique and

00:16:17 ◼   ► I I was really intrigued about how that

00:16:20 ◼   ► might interact and it is one of the

00:16:24 ◼   ► aspects of season two that I think ended

00:16:26 ◼   ► up being kind of a failure there are

00:16:28 ◼   ► some emotional notes in there but I feel

00:16:29 ◼   ► like in terms of the themes of the show

00:16:31 ◼   ► it didn't really challenge me to think

00:16:34 ◼   ► about the overarching themes of

00:16:37 ◼   ► intelligence and responsibility and

00:16:39 ◼   ► ended up being much more about a mother

00:16:41 ◼   ► who's grieving over the loss of her

00:16:42 ◼   ► child and trying to replace them in

00:16:45 ◼   ► artificial intelligence and I felt like

00:16:47 ◼   ► the all that we really got in terms of

00:16:49 ◼   ► interacting with the since was this sort

00:16:51 ◼   ► of haphazard attempt to put the AI in a

00:16:56 ◼   ► synth body but it was never really clear

00:16:58 ◼   ► and it was ultimately you know it's sort

00:17:00 ◼   ► of like that storyline just kind of got

00:17:02 ◼   ► sniped at the end there's one final

00:17:04 ◼   ► confrontation carrie-anne moss puts a

00:17:05 ◼   ► you know puts the plant on her desk in a

00:17:07 ◼   ► box and walks out of the building and

00:17:09 ◼   ► that's the end and it was that was

00:17:12 ◼   ► disappointing because I really thought

00:17:13 ◼   ► that this was a an interesting

00:17:15 ◼   ► opportunity to do the since intelligence

00:17:17 ◼   ► in a different light and in the end sort

00:17:19 ◼   ► of nothing came of it I mean maybe

00:17:20 ◼   ► something will come of it in a future

00:17:22 ◼   ► season but I

00:17:22 ◼   ► since the AI is now like out on the

00:17:24 ◼   ► internet and on servers in China or

00:17:26 ◼   ► something but that felt much more like

00:17:28 ◼   ► they were just sort of sweeping it under

00:17:29 ◼   ► the rug

00:17:30 ◼   ► and getting back to their original story

00:17:32 ◼   ► and making me wonder why we even had

00:17:34 ◼   ► that plotline next season next season a

00:17:37 ◼   ► subplot line with Michelle Yeoh set in

00:17:40 ◼   ► Hong Kong and yeah ooping of Soviet

00:17:43 ◼   ► co-production was Chinese TV yeah

00:17:44 ◼   ► exactly

00:17:45 ◼   ► Jon would you think of the great that so

00:17:47 ◼   ► the that AI I mean it was pretty early

00:17:50 ◼   ► in the season and I was also kind of

00:17:52 ◼   ► excited to see it but but as soon as it

00:17:53 ◼   ► appeared I realized very early on in

00:17:55 ◼   ► season 2 something that would bug me for

00:17:57 ◼   ► the entire season which is season 1 did

00:18:01 ◼   ► the thing that you know first seasons of

00:18:02 ◼   ► shows like this do or at least the good

00:18:03 ◼   ► ones do it's like they don't tell you

00:18:06 ◼   ► the whole condition of the world right

00:18:08 ◼   ► away right just go goes about its story

00:18:10 ◼   ► and soon you learn they're these things

00:18:11 ◼   ► called synth and you know how do these

00:18:12 ◼   ► cents work who has them what what do

00:18:14 ◼   ► they do and like as the episodes

00:18:16 ◼   ► progressed more and more of the world is

00:18:18 ◼   ► revealed to you so you're you know does

00:18:20 ◼   ► it look kind of like now but it's not

00:18:21 ◼   ► quite like now and so it takes its time

00:18:23 ◼   ► over the course of season one showing

00:18:26 ◼   ► you revealing its world to you and

00:18:28 ◼   ► revealing all these different

00:18:29 ◼   ► interactions and by the end you kind of

00:18:31 ◼   ► have a reasonable picture of it and then

00:18:32 ◼   ► the season ends season 2 we more or less

00:18:35 ◼   ► know how the world works and for me

00:18:37 ◼   ► personally since I'm such a annoying

00:18:40 ◼   ► stickler for this type of stuff in

00:18:41 ◼   ► sci-fi um I was free then too you know

00:18:45 ◼   ► you're not going to be revealing

00:18:46 ◼   ► anything new about the world we even

00:18:48 ◼   ► learned all about like what's his name

00:18:49 ◼   ► Elster or whatever like and it's all

00:18:51 ◼   ► family like we know all that backstory

00:18:53 ◼   ► we know the current situation we know

00:18:55 ◼   ► all the parameters and that left my

00:18:57 ◼   ► brain free to think about unfortunately

00:19:00 ◼   ► the the I don't know I have a good name

00:19:05 ◼   ► for it but like the the sci-fi thing

00:19:07 ◼   ► that I harp on all the time where if

00:19:09 ◼   ► this is possible what would then what

00:19:12 ◼   ► else would also be possible yeah

00:19:14 ◼   ► Pandora's Box is already open why is it

00:19:17 ◼   ► not wreaking more havoc than we've got

00:19:19 ◼   ► so far

00:19:20 ◼   ► yeah re not even for the a I think so

00:19:22 ◼   ► like heard that for the subconscious

00:19:24 ◼   ► thing for the AI specifically their

00:19:26 ◼   ► premise in the beginning is that

00:19:27 ◼   ► carrie-anne moss is working on this

00:19:28 ◼   ► thing and she's got this AI and you know

00:19:31 ◼   ► someone so forth and it's like the pitch

00:19:33 ◼   ► of like the the Mark Zuckerberg

00:19:35 ◼   ► surrogate dude it's like hey come to our

00:19:37 ◼   ► company will give you the more resources

00:19:38 ◼   ► your AI can't be contained we'll give

00:19:40 ◼   ► you a bigger server farm and so on

00:19:42 ◼   ► so and it's like alright listen we

00:19:45 ◼   ► already know that non-conscious since

00:19:48 ◼   ► not the conscious ones but the plain old

00:19:50 ◼   ► non conscious ones are already smarter

00:19:53 ◼   ► and more capable than this stupid grass

00:19:54 ◼   ► computer thing you need a whole server

00:19:57 ◼   ► farm you can't fit it you need a bigger

00:19:59 ◼   ► server farm and you can't get your

00:20:01 ◼   ► stupid in computer AI work the regular

00:20:03 ◼   ► run-of-the-mill you can go to the store

00:20:05 ◼   ► and buy one non-conscious since they're

00:20:07 ◼   ► smarter and they fit inside a single

00:20:08 ◼   ► packaging you charge them every night so

00:20:11 ◼   ► I don't see how that fits in your

00:20:12 ◼   ► worldview and yes I was also looking for

00:20:15 ◼   ► an interaction between the disembodied

00:20:18 ◼   ► AI and the body AI but that totally

00:20:20 ◼   ► switched gears into a mother-daughter

00:20:21 ◼   ► thing and by the way I had my first kind

00:20:23 ◼   ► of like Harrison Ford effect thing with

00:20:26 ◼   ► carrie-anne moss because when they first

00:20:27 ◼   ► showed the scene of like when just

00:20:28 ◼   ► showing flickering memories of her with

00:20:30 ◼   ► uh you know our daughter at the

00:20:31 ◼   ► waterfall and everything I totally

00:20:33 ◼   ► thought that was her girlfriend because

00:20:34 ◼   ► in my view no carrie-anne moss is the

00:20:36 ◼   ► age she was in the matrix and so the

00:20:38 ◼   ► other actors but they're it's like oh

00:20:39 ◼   ► it's like you when you see Harrison Ford

00:20:41 ◼   ► with like someone who was half his age

00:20:42 ◼   ► you're like oh that works perfectly I'm

00:20:43 ◼   ► just used to seeing that well I saw

00:20:45 ◼   ► carrie-anne moss but this 20 year old

00:20:46 ◼   ► girl I'm like you know it must be her

00:20:49 ◼   ► girlfriend no it was her daughter it's

00:20:50 ◼   ► her daughter I literally visually can't

00:20:53 ◼   ► compute carrie-anne moss as not being

00:20:55 ◼   ► the ages and I mean you saw a time

00:20:57 ◼   ► displacement paradox where there was

00:20:58 ◼   ► none yeah but anyway the detect the tech

00:21:01 ◼   ► comparison of the AI stuff really hard

00:21:03 ◼   ► that bothered me I accepted that because

00:21:05 ◼   ► again I expected them to go place they

00:21:08 ◼   ► didn't go and that's one of the things

00:21:09 ◼   ► that frustrated me is that I was

00:21:11 ◼   ► thinking cuz we're introduced to her and

00:21:13 ◼   ► she's this amazing you know researcher

00:21:15 ◼   ► who's at the forefront of AI research

00:21:17 ◼   ► and she's finally going to be well

00:21:19 ◼   ► funded and she's going to break this

00:21:20 ◼   ► thing right

00:21:21 ◼   ► except we as viewers know it's done it

00:21:23 ◼   ► already happened it happened naturally

00:21:25 ◼   ► it happened to merchant Lee with you

00:21:28 ◼   ► know with the help this this code that

00:21:29 ◼   ► that what Elster was working on it's

00:21:32 ◼   ► like we know that they made a

00:21:34 ◼   ► breakthrough and that the sense can be

00:21:36 ◼   ► smart we don't need giant servers to do

00:21:38 ◼   ► it so I kept thinking it's like oh I

00:21:40 ◼   ► think I actually said a lady you are

00:21:42 ◼   ► about to be really disappointed right

00:21:44 ◼   ► like all my life's work and then this

00:21:46 ◼   ► happens and I thought that would be

00:21:48 ◼   ► interesting drama like she's trying to

00:21:50 ◼   ► try to revive her daughter she has has

00:21:53 ◼   ► been thinking of AI as kind

00:21:54 ◼   ► from this direction it's come from this

00:21:56 ◼   ► different direction what is she gonna do

00:21:58 ◼   ► can she adapt can is you gonna make a

00:21:59 ◼   ► new kind of of sente I that is different

00:22:03 ◼   ► in some way like I was ready for that

00:22:05 ◼   ► kind of clash and there is it just isn't

00:22:08 ◼   ► there

00:22:09 ◼   ► there's nothing there but but like I

00:22:11 ◼   ► said I don't think it's a consciousness

00:22:12 ◼   ► it's the non conscious since the regular

00:22:14 ◼   ► ones that just bringing way yeah the

00:22:16 ◼   ► sort of two ones those are smarter than

00:22:18 ◼   ► area because hurry eyes like try and

00:22:20 ◼   ► talk to have what do you think of this

00:22:21 ◼   ► how do you feel bad it's the thing is

00:22:22 ◼   ► like a toddler where is the the non

00:22:24 ◼   ► conscious one I don't know in talk to

00:22:26 ◼   ► like an adult and they can they can

00:22:27 ◼   ► navigate the world and have bodies and

00:22:29 ◼   ► can do chores and laundry you can argue

00:22:31 ◼   ► I'd say it's differently intelligent

00:22:32 ◼   ► because she's trying to replicate like a

00:22:34 ◼   ► human with all these memories and all

00:22:35 ◼   ► this and kind of have them grow up and

00:22:37 ◼   ► yeah and all of that across a spread

00:22:39 ◼   ► across a gigantic amount of virtual

00:22:40 ◼   ► machines using a contemporary

00:22:42 ◼   ► contemporary level processors and so on

00:22:46 ◼   ► where is the synth technology is is that

00:22:49 ◼   ► like unobtainium a kind of thing where

00:22:51 ◼   ► they have this network that's on par

00:22:53 ◼   ► with data from Star Trek

00:22:54 ◼   ► yeah like it seemed like that it seemed

00:22:56 ◼   ► like from different shows they just seem

00:22:57 ◼   ► like they're from now and that's and

00:22:59 ◼   ► that's why I expected it to be a rude

00:23:01 ◼   ► awakening for her where marks occur will

00:23:03 ◼   ► be like forget this server crash look

00:23:04 ◼   ► the sins can do it she doesn't know

00:23:06 ◼   ► what's going on in the UK she's just

00:23:08 ◼   ► been toiling away in California has no

00:23:09 ◼   ► idea oh by the way in UK they have like

00:23:11 ◼   ► literal like you know intelligent robots

00:23:14 ◼   ► wandering around not the conscious once

00:23:16 ◼   ► again the conscious ones forget the

00:23:17 ◼   ► conscious ones are just like and that's

00:23:19 ◼   ► that's another thing of the show right

00:23:20 ◼   ► the pitch of the show and it has to be

00:23:23 ◼   ► the pitch of the show is that the

00:23:24 ◼   ► sentient conscious synths are greater

00:23:29 ◼   ► than better than more intelligent than

00:23:32 ◼   ► more sophisticated than the non

00:23:33 ◼   ► conscious ones right but I actually

00:23:37 ◼   ► don't see much evidence that they are

00:23:39 ◼   ► more human-like but I'm not entirely

00:23:42 ◼   ► sure that anything on the show actually

00:23:45 ◼   ► supports the idea that they are there

00:23:47 ◼   ► more than you might be right because

00:23:48 ◼   ► there are more like you know because

00:23:50 ◼   ► they react more like humans and they

00:23:52 ◼   ► have quote-unquote feelings but the

00:23:53 ◼   ► other ones are very good at reading

00:23:55 ◼   ► people and understand when you're upset

00:23:57 ◼   ► and they do the stupid thing with a with

00:23:59 ◼   ► a voice I can tell you are upset because

00:24:00 ◼   ► your heart rate and but which is stupid

00:24:02 ◼   ► but it shows that they have perhaps a

00:24:04 ◼   ► greater understanding of humans than the

00:24:06 ◼   ► conscious ones do and

00:24:07 ◼   ► to feeling like they have directives

00:24:09 ◼   ► they're just they're just not human like

00:24:10 ◼   ► so we can't relate to them and they they

00:24:12 ◼   ► acrobatically and talk erotica but in

00:24:14 ◼   ► general they can do everything we can do

00:24:17 ◼   ► and they could understand our thoughts

00:24:18 ◼   ► and feelings and suggestions perhaps in

00:24:20 ◼   ► a way is better than humans so that you

00:24:22 ◼   ► know I don't know maybe maybe too much

00:24:23 ◼   ► on the robot side here Joan did this

00:24:25 ◼   ► season of humans make you distressed how

00:24:27 ◼   ► can I help

00:24:28 ◼   ► well I was rooting for Niska to kill

00:24:30 ◼   ► everybody a lot in the cold season too

00:24:32 ◼   ► so I don't know I don't know if I'm on

00:24:33 ◼   ► the right side of the show like I have

00:24:35 ◼   ► this this this III had the same kind of

00:24:39 ◼   ► anticipatory interest in what was going

00:24:41 ◼   ► on at the carrie-anne moss thread where

00:24:43 ◼   ► it was it was almost built like this

00:24:46 ◼   ► self-aware AI classic monster narrative

00:24:50 ◼   ► like Frankenstein's monster kind of

00:24:52 ◼   ► thing of you've opened the door doing

00:24:54 ◼   ► this and what are the consequences of

00:24:56 ◼   ► doing that and that's kind of how her

00:24:58 ◼   ► plotline ended up playing out where she

00:25:01 ◼   ► tempted fate by taking Zucker jerks

00:25:03 ◼   ► money and resources and access and

00:25:07 ◼   ► everything and the dominoes kept falling

00:25:10 ◼   ► to an extent but it just it didn't quite

00:25:13 ◼   ► catch fire and I was I was getting bored

00:25:16 ◼   ► with it and I wanted to be more and more

00:25:18 ◼   ► excited about the level of of danger and

00:25:21 ◼   ► and suspense that was in it and there

00:25:25 ◼   ► was progressively less and less of that

00:25:26 ◼   ► as the as the season ended up going on

00:25:29 ◼   ► and at the same time I had I had this

00:25:31 ◼   ► thought of along the lines of what

00:25:34 ◼   ► John's saying where these sense who

00:25:36 ◼   ► become aware and and have emotions and

00:25:40 ◼   ► everything it's like the first few

00:25:43 ◼   ► minutes of the episodes of Star Trek The

00:25:45 ◼   ► Next Generation when data has emotions

00:25:46 ◼   ► and all of a sudden he's not quite as

00:25:49 ◼   ► efficient and powerful and great because

00:25:51 ◼   ► he's compromised by having to compensate

00:25:54 ◼   ► for these emotions that he's not used to

00:25:56 ◼   ► dealing with these urges these feelings

00:25:59 ◼   ► these things that distract him and I

00:26:01 ◼   ► don't feel like the show did well I do

00:26:06 ◼   ► and I don't there were moments where I

00:26:07 ◼   ► felt like they played it really well

00:26:09 ◼   ► with the various self-conscious sense

00:26:11 ◼   ► that did have those sorts of crises but

00:26:16 ◼   ► then others were just kind of dippy and

00:26:19 ◼   ► stupid and distracted

00:26:20 ◼   ► yeah and if anything it seemed like

00:26:22 ◼   ► giving them that self-awareness giving

00:26:24 ◼   ► them that consciousness if anything made

00:26:27 ◼   ► them radically less capable of the Rise

00:26:30 ◼   ► of the Planet of the synths kind of

00:26:31 ◼   ► thing that we kind of thought we were

00:26:33 ◼   ► going to get at the end of season one

00:26:34 ◼   ► they're sort of kind of teasing at the

00:26:37 ◼   ► end of season two or season two ended up

00:26:40 ◼   ► playing with different versions of where

00:26:41 ◼   ► it was we are going to lead our soldiers

00:26:43 ◼   ► from their prison and we will take over

00:26:45 ◼   ► this world and they will no fear and

00:26:47 ◼   ► like x-men villain lines but I just I

00:26:52 ◼   ► don't know that I if if they are going

00:26:56 ◼   ► to play that the way that it seems they

00:26:58 ◼   ► are which is that it's more of a

00:26:59 ◼   ► liability than an advantage and this

00:27:02 ◼   ► this brings me back to some of the stuff

00:27:03 ◼   ► in the magician's about getting rid of

00:27:05 ◼   ► your shade and not feeling your trauma

00:27:07 ◼   ► not feeling post-traumatic stress not

00:27:09 ◼   ► feeling any of that kind of stuff not

00:27:11 ◼   ► having to deal with it

00:27:13 ◼   ► viewing that as a distraction maybe

00:27:16 ◼   ► maybe that's that's pretty much the the

00:27:18 ◼   ► reverse that they have set up as the

00:27:20 ◼   ► conditions of this world that having

00:27:22 ◼   ► those kinds of emotions is something

00:27:24 ◼   ► that is way more of a liability than

00:27:26 ◼   ► anything else if that's the case then

00:27:28 ◼   ► what are they doing in season 3 well

00:27:29 ◼   ► they kind of infantilized this sense

00:27:31 ◼   ► some of the sense make them be like that

00:27:33 ◼   ► you know sort of scared toddlers or

00:27:35 ◼   ► whatever but in order for them to have

00:27:36 ◼   ► that robot skill all human story there

00:27:39 ◼   ► have to be ones that are different than

00:27:41 ◼   ► that the ones that have ambition and and

00:27:44 ◼   ► are more sophisticated levels of thought

00:27:46 ◼   ► like it's it's strange they try to

00:27:49 ◼   ► actually you know put a pin on this

00:27:50 ◼   ► thing of saying you're just like human

00:27:52 ◼   ► some of you are nuts and some of you are

00:27:54 ◼   ► dummies and you know like there is a lot

00:27:57 ◼   ► of variety you got like max who's always

00:27:58 ◼   ► smiling it looks dumb but has like you

00:28:00 ◼   ► know wisdom and emotional intelligence

00:28:02 ◼   ► and you've got the Elster kid it was

00:28:04 ◼   ► just a jerk and doesn't know what that

00:28:05 ◼   ► he's doing and you've got psychopath

00:28:07 ◼   ► lady Hester and you got Niska who's I

00:28:09 ◼   ► think the most identifiable as an adult

00:28:12 ◼   ► intelligent thinking human who kind of

00:28:14 ◼   ► sees what it's state what's at stake has

00:28:16 ◼   ► the wherewithal to do something about it

00:28:18 ◼   ► maybe conflicted about going one way or

00:28:20 ◼   ► the other but actually acts like you and

00:28:22 ◼   ► then the other ones that wake up like

00:28:24 ◼   ► they never seem to get out of toddler

00:28:25 ◼   ► phase and so it's not you know I

00:28:28 ◼   ► appreciate that they're trying to show

00:28:30 ◼   ► that there's a variety but if they're

00:28:31 ◼   ► going to have since the versus using hee

00:28:34 ◼   ► round one in the next season it's going

00:28:37 ◼   ► to be a little messy it's not going to

00:28:39 ◼   ► be like a West world kind of not even a

00:28:40 ◼   ► West row kind of like semi organized

00:28:43 ◼   ► revolt of some code yeah superior beings

00:28:46 ◼   ► versus inferior beings it seems a lot

00:28:48 ◼   ► more messing that which which may be

00:28:49 ◼   ► appropriate well the the big revelation

00:28:51 ◼   ► at the end of the episode of the last

00:28:53 ◼   ► episode and something that I kind of

00:28:54 ◼   ► liked was there is a there is an

00:28:57 ◼   ► enjoyable speech that Laura gives to

00:29:03 ◼   ► Hester the the murderous synth that and

00:29:09 ◼   ► I really liked it because it is the show

00:29:11 ◼   ► just laying down all its cards at that

00:29:12 ◼   ► moment and she says um you're not you're

00:29:18 ◼   ► not something different because she's

00:29:19 ◼   ► very much like we're different and you

00:29:20 ◼   ► have to respect us and you know we're

00:29:22 ◼   ► gonna we're gonna be here and and I'm

00:29:25 ◼   ► gonna kill people and it's gonna be

00:29:26 ◼   ► great and and she's like we didn't make

00:29:28 ◼   ► a new race we made artificial humans but

00:29:33 ◼   ► you're humans you have the same problems

00:29:36 ◼   ► and the same she said she says like if

00:29:39 ◼   ► you were a human you would be diagnosed

00:29:41 ◼   ► for your for your mental illness that

00:29:43 ◼   ► you have and for the problems you had

00:29:45 ◼   ► when you started life you are humans the

00:29:49 ◼   ► synths are not an alien race they're

00:29:52 ◼   ► just a different kind of person and we

00:29:54 ◼   ► can we can debate whether the text of

00:29:57 ◼   ► the show

00:29:57 ◼   ► actually bears that out or not but I

00:29:59 ◼   ► feel like that is actually what the what

00:30:01 ◼   ► the what the producers have been arguing

00:30:03 ◼   ► kind of all along which is that you know

00:30:05 ◼   ► this is not the science fictional

00:30:07 ◼   ► emergence of a global super intelligent

00:30:09 ◼   ► robot it isn't Skynet awakening it's not

00:30:12 ◼   ► it's just what it turns out these are

00:30:15 ◼   ► people too to just like us except

00:30:17 ◼   ► artificial but they're just like us and

00:30:19 ◼   ► they have all the same problems that we

00:30:21 ◼   ► do they're just an artificial bond maybe

00:30:23 ◼   ► a little dimmer than we are though like

00:30:24 ◼   ► I sort of said maybe just like as accept

00:30:26 ◼   ► me I mean arguably make sense because

00:30:28 ◼   ► they're literally younger like they're

00:30:30 ◼   ► not that many exactly I have a childhood

00:30:31 ◼   ► to go through but I mean but again for

00:30:33 ◼   ► the show to be able to make progress on

00:30:35 ◼   ► any kind of thought you have to have

00:30:36 ◼   ► some of them be essentially adults like

00:30:38 ◼   ► you know intelligent knowledgeable

00:30:40 ◼   ► emotionally sophisticated adults the

00:30:43 ◼   ► first wave is is is more and they try to

00:30:46 ◼   ► show some of that in the first episode

00:30:47 ◼   ► of the second season

00:30:48 ◼   ► where they show the awakening of some

00:30:49 ◼   ► new characters and you get that sense

00:30:51 ◼   ► that like they're really kind of out to

00:30:53 ◼   ► sea and we see with OD when OD gets

00:30:55 ◼   ► upgraded which I again it was nice to

00:30:57 ◼   ► see him because I liked the bittersweet

00:30:59 ◼   ► nature of the William Hurt storyline

00:31:02 ◼   ► from season one at the same time they

00:31:03 ◼   ► kind of didn't really use him it was

00:31:05 ◼   ► just sort of like we could bring him

00:31:06 ◼   ► back I was hoping he was gonna go to the

00:31:08 ◼   ► priest and decide you know what you're

00:31:10 ◼   ► right father kill humans like he's like

00:31:12 ◼   ► he was trying to arrive like he was

00:31:15 ◼   ► obviously conflicted he doesn't really

00:31:16 ◼   ► know where his place is he's trying to

00:31:17 ◼   ► side in the end he decides to go the

00:31:19 ◼   ► other direction just you know off

00:31:20 ◼   ► himself back to robots Ville can't

00:31:23 ◼   ► handle the pain of being alive at a time

00:31:24 ◼   ► but like but I'm not understanding like

00:31:27 ◼   ► not quite sure what I could do like and

00:31:29 ◼   ► yeah but a lot of interesting problems

00:31:32 ◼   ► it just kind of didn't go anywhere with

00:31:33 ◼   ► the other one that really really chapped

00:31:37 ◼   ► my whatever's that expression is which

00:31:40 ◼   ► is a classic sci-fi thing which I don't

00:31:42 ◼   ► know if is it a Star Trek episode you

00:31:43 ◼   ► guys can tell me the experts the Travis

00:31:46 ◼   ► but but certainly there are a million

00:31:47 ◼   ► other ones you've got yes you've got

00:31:49 ◼   ► Niska and she turns yourself in because

00:31:51 ◼   ► it's her move to do let's see if you are

00:31:54 ◼   ► conscious you can do just a whole season

00:31:57 ◼   ► with that is the a lot and be super

00:31:59 ◼   ► interesting and they just left it all on

00:32:01 ◼   ► the table just a lost opportunity able

00:32:03 ◼   ► like the few scenes they had of like

00:32:05 ◼   ► their interrogators like how much you

00:32:07 ◼   ► paying for these lawyers because they

00:32:08 ◼   ► are terrible really I may have never

00:32:11 ◼   ► Astaire never read a sci-fi book in

00:32:12 ◼   ► their life what are you even doing yeah

00:32:14 ◼   ► I mean one of the most iconic episodes

00:32:16 ◼   ► of the next generation is called the

00:32:17 ◼   ► measure of a man where Captain Picard

00:32:19 ◼   ► basically defends the humanity of data

00:32:22 ◼   ► or actually no he he he argues against

00:32:25 ◼   ► it and commander Riker has to has to

00:32:27 ◼   ► defend data and it is those nights yeah

00:32:31 ◼   ► okay her prosecutes data Picard says no

00:32:33 ◼   ► no he's sentient and it is important

00:32:36 ◼   ► thing is a bald guy in a guy with a

00:32:37 ◼   ► beard haha

00:32:38 ◼   ► dual in a courtroom over the sentience

00:32:41 ◼   ► of an artificial human here it's women

00:32:43 ◼   ► in suits yeah what what could be a more

00:32:45 ◼   ► like that has been done so many times

00:32:46 ◼   ► the core of so many sci-fi stories and

00:32:49 ◼   ► you can like just if you just copied

00:32:51 ◼   ► other people that you can do it well and

00:32:53 ◼   ► they would just seem so uninterested

00:32:55 ◼   ► into in what makes us conscious or alive

00:32:58 ◼   ► yeah it's it's it's let's throw this

00:33:00 ◼   ► giant pile of

00:33:01 ◼   ► red herring on a table and then just

00:33:02 ◼   ► sweep it all back into the bay I was so

00:33:04 ◼   ► excited to have that be one of the plot

00:33:07 ◼   ► lines I thought this is really like

00:33:08 ◼   ► early on the season this is really going

00:33:09 ◼   ► good we got Kerry and moss in this clash

00:33:11 ◼   ► and she's gonna be you know rude

00:33:12 ◼   ► awakening that her research is wasted

00:33:14 ◼   ► because the you know the sense was the

00:33:16 ◼   ► answer and then we got the the legal

00:33:17 ◼   ► thing and the legal thing yeah it is a

00:33:20 ◼   ► rich storyline too even if the ultimate

00:33:23 ◼   ► results is the same which is the powers

00:33:26 ◼   ► that be have got their thumb on the

00:33:27 ◼   ► scale and they're just not going to let

00:33:29 ◼   ► this happen

00:33:29 ◼   ► you could have still explored this is

00:33:32 ◼   ► what the show is about right it's

00:33:33 ◼   ► exploring issues of what is she what

00:33:35 ◼   ► does it mean to be human what does it

00:33:37 ◼   ► mean to have rights this is this is you

00:33:39 ◼   ► could there are political ramifications

00:33:41 ◼   ► storytelling like this there's so much

00:33:42 ◼   ► you could do with this that makes for

00:33:44 ◼   ► good science fiction and instead it they

00:33:47 ◼   ► like get to the point where it's ready

00:33:49 ◼   ► for the good stuff to happen and then

00:33:51 ◼   ► nothing nothing happens because instead

00:33:53 ◼   ► they're like let's have a conversation

00:33:54 ◼   ► with Niska the the the the artificial

00:33:56 ◼   ► like they just like ask you some

00:33:58 ◼   ► questions oh let's bring your girlfriend

00:33:59 ◼   ► and it's like what are you even doing

00:34:00 ◼   ► with this like both both sides we were

00:34:02 ◼   ► not able to prosecute there it's worse

00:34:04 ◼   ► than that it's it's literally we're

00:34:06 ◼   ► gonna hook her up to a lie-detector well

00:34:07 ◼   ► she has no bodily functions right so

00:34:09 ◼   ► we're gonna show her pictures of scary

00:34:11 ◼   ► things oh I really like showing the

00:34:14 ◼   ► scary pictures like that you can't be

00:34:15 ◼   ► conscious it's like maybe she's just a

00:34:17 ◼   ► psycho man like what maybe she like you

00:34:20 ◼   ► as if you just try to judge and no and

00:34:23 ◼   ► no legal arguments right there no legal

00:34:24 ◼   ► arguments made am i it was I completely

00:34:27 ◼   ► wrong in like reading this kind of

00:34:29 ◼   ► there's some sort of shadowy government

00:34:31 ◼   ► conspiracy thing going on there's some

00:34:34 ◼   ► person behind like no it's just it's the

00:34:36 ◼   ► powers that be don't want this

00:34:38 ◼   ► government just want to get rid of this

00:34:39 ◼   ► dangerous machine the way it felt if it

00:34:41 ◼   ► felt like they were teasing that there

00:34:42 ◼   ► was that kind of person behind the

00:34:44 ◼   ► curtain kind of thing but then none of

00:34:45 ◼   ► that even happened no I think I mean I

00:34:47 ◼   ► think they were saying all along that

00:34:49 ◼   ► that they could make this argument but

00:34:50 ◼   ► in the end there's just no way it's

00:34:51 ◼   ► going to happen because humans aren't

00:34:53 ◼   ► ready for this and that's how if they

00:34:54 ◼   ► had done it well they would have had

00:34:56 ◼   ► them do the argument and it would have

00:34:57 ◼   ► been a right good argument and you would

00:34:58 ◼   ► it maybe some people would come away

00:35:00 ◼   ► feeling that they've proved their case

00:35:01 ◼   ► and maybe some people would feel they

00:35:03 ◼   ► wouldn't but in the end it won't matter

00:35:04 ◼   ► because like Jason said if the fix was

00:35:06 ◼   ► in

00:35:07 ◼   ► and that's fine I would've been a fine

00:35:08 ◼   ► way to end it they just skip the whole

00:35:10 ◼   ► milhorn middle yeah that could have been

00:35:11 ◼   ► good drama yeah it's it's a real shame

00:35:14 ◼   ► this is

00:35:14 ◼   ► absolute so much of where I'm this like

00:35:16 ◼   ► giant bundle of knots about this show

00:35:18 ◼   ► where I feel like I'm a pile of

00:35:20 ◼   ► contradictions where I love so much of

00:35:22 ◼   ► what they do and then I find myself

00:35:23 ◼   ► going wait why did they not do that and

00:35:25 ◼   ► the counterpoint do I have that I have

00:35:27 ◼   ► to this specific thing is if anything it

00:35:30 ◼   ► feels like it feels like this entire

00:35:32 ◼   ► season is symbolically playing with the

00:35:35 ◼   ► notion of they they have awoken and they

00:35:37 ◼   ► are going through a version of of

00:35:39 ◼   ► self-conscious puberty and this is like

00:35:42 ◼   ► the adolescent stage of their awakening

00:35:44 ◼   ► and that's why so many things that that

00:35:47 ◼   ► could go the mature hard sci-fi route of

00:35:52 ◼   ► you know mature thought and all that

00:35:53 ◼   ► kind of stuff gets thrown out the window

00:35:55 ◼   ► because the the sense that have emotions

00:35:58 ◼   ► decided every turn to be petulant

00:36:00 ◼   ► teenagers and go no we're going to burn

00:36:02 ◼   ► everything down there's going to be a

00:36:04 ◼   ► revolution and we're gonna rule the

00:36:06 ◼   ► world and we're gonna friggin kill him

00:36:08 ◼   ► and so yeah and and and it feels like

00:36:12 ◼   ► they didn't commit enough to that if

00:36:15 ◼   ► that's what they were trying to get

00:36:16 ◼   ► across well they were also just trying

00:36:18 ◼   ► to save themselves like their main

00:36:20 ◼   ► thrust of the little band of you know

00:36:22 ◼   ► the party of since until the very end

00:36:23 ◼   ► was like we know since they're waking up

00:36:25 ◼   ► we need to protect them because it's a

00:36:26 ◼   ► hostile world and it slowly transformed

00:36:29 ◼   ► into like well the only way to protect

00:36:30 ◼   ► them is to you know find the people who

00:36:32 ◼   ► are getting them and the people who are

00:36:33 ◼   ► kidnapping them we should probably

00:36:35 ◼   ► probably kind of kill them all and then

00:36:36 ◼   ► you know it was it was building up to it

00:36:38 ◼   ► also the the I expected I mean to your

00:36:40 ◼   ► point Moyes as I expected max who is one

00:36:42 ◼   ► of my favorite characters he's so

00:36:44 ◼   ► friendly and smiley and he's the very

00:36:45 ◼   ► nice synth and I expected I expected him

00:36:48 ◼   ► to be yeah I expected it to be max in

00:36:51 ◼   ► opposition to Hester right where it's

00:36:54 ◼   ► like no peace and love and we're all

00:36:55 ◼   ► going to be fine and we're going to take

00:36:57 ◼   ► care of each other and kill all humans

00:36:59 ◼   ► right max just bails he's like I'm not

00:37:01 ◼   ► hanging out with this psycho they said

00:37:03 ◼   ► they set up that fracturing of the synth

00:37:04 ◼   ► family and then they didn't do anything

00:37:06 ◼   ► no again a missed opportunity where max

00:37:08 ◼   ► just sort of lives on a train that's in

00:37:10 ◼   ► a railroad car somewhere in this agency

00:37:12 ◼   ► helps them sense that and then they just

00:37:14 ◼   ► waits for the other people to come back

00:37:15 ◼   ► then yeah I just again it's just it's

00:37:18 ◼   ► just kind of baffling because that's

00:37:19 ◼   ► another point of drama what did you

00:37:21 ◼   ► think of the of the plot with with Rini

00:37:23 ◼   ► the girl who acts like a synth and then

00:37:26 ◼   ► a daughter who tries to act like a synth

00:37:28 ◼   ► they did not they maybe it's not

00:37:31 ◼   ► possible to do but I certainly think

00:37:33 ◼   ► they did not do a good enough job of

00:37:34 ◼   ► explaining why the heck people would do

00:37:36 ◼   ► this like I know they want this to be a

00:37:38 ◼   ► thing like oh and by the way some people

00:37:40 ◼   ► pretend to be since right why why do

00:37:42 ◼   ► they better to do I know I know somebody

00:37:44 ◼   ► who in high school she was a huge Harry

00:37:46 ◼   ► Potter fan and she would literally wear

00:37:48 ◼   ► like a Gryffindor cape to school and do

00:37:50 ◼   ► a fake English accent because she just

00:37:52 ◼   ► wanted to live in the world of Harry

00:37:54 ◼   ► Potter and she was a Harry Potter

00:37:55 ◼   ► superfan and she was a weird kid right

00:37:57 ◼   ► but why does someone want to be a synth

00:37:59 ◼   ► because they suck well I think I think

00:38:00 ◼   ► Rimi Rini is is very much like she's got

00:38:03 ◼   ► lots of problems at home and she this is

00:38:05 ◼   ► like her way of escaping that she gets

00:38:08 ◼   ► to suppress emotion making for an

00:38:10 ◼   ► individual character you might have a

00:38:12 ◼   ► reason but this pitch on the show is

00:38:14 ◼   ► that this is a thing yeah it is just so

00:38:16 ◼   ► crazy

00:38:16 ◼   ► it's like grunt is the thing look like

00:38:18 ◼   ► pretend synth is the new grunge I don't

00:38:21 ◼   ► get I don't think that it's attractive

00:38:22 ◼   ► enough to be a subculture and certainly

00:38:24 ◼   ► I don't see much of an explanation for

00:38:25 ◼   ► poor Sophie to be into it yeah like they

00:38:27 ◼   ► do it as a dramatic thing to what should

00:38:29 ◼   ► we do about sofo it's like why what's

00:38:31 ◼   ► what selfs motivation to do this right I

00:38:33 ◼   ► don't it doesn't just didn't connect to

00:38:35 ◼   ► me and I mean here's the other thing

00:38:37 ◼   ► when they're on the screen one thing

00:38:40 ◼   ► they code done is played up the aspect

00:38:42 ◼   ► that played up the idea that people who

00:38:44 ◼   ► are tending to be since are annoying

00:38:45 ◼   ► because they sure annoyed me yeah like

00:38:47 ◼   ► stop it you're not a synth and so this

00:38:49 ◼   ► should have shown shown them annoying

00:38:51 ◼   ► other people and being abused for

00:38:53 ◼   ► pretending to be since I still think

00:38:55 ◼   ► that would have required you to buy into

00:38:56 ◼   ► the idea that that is there is a reason

00:38:59 ◼   ► that a large number of people want to be

00:39:00 ◼   ► since which I didn't buy into but at the

00:39:02 ◼   ► very least like what I'm getting to is

00:39:04 ◼   ► every time they were on screen

00:39:04 ◼   ► pretending to be since I was like stop

00:39:06 ◼   ► it I didn't like Sophie pretending to be

00:39:08 ◼   ► since I didn't like how the family was

00:39:10 ◼   ► handling it I didn't like the friend

00:39:11 ◼   ► pretending to be since it was all like

00:39:12 ◼   ► being a synth is no freaking fun it's

00:39:15 ◼   ► not as fun as being Harry Potter it's

00:39:16 ◼   ► stupid and I didn't like that subplot of

00:39:18 ◼   ► I have it I have another thing about

00:39:20 ◼   ► this subplot that bothers me which is

00:39:22 ◼   ► there are several moments when they're

00:39:24 ◼   ► talking about this that I said to myself

00:39:26 ◼   ► is this meant to be a metaphor for

00:39:31 ◼   ► people being trans because there are

00:39:35 ◼   ► several moments where they're like oh

00:39:36 ◼   ► well you need to you know respect her

00:39:38 ◼   ► her her pronouns basically yeah

00:39:41 ◼   ► man I could not agree with you more on

00:39:43 ◼   ► this like that that would that was what

00:39:45 ◼   ► really skeeved me out of and it but and

00:39:47 ◼   ► that bugged me because I then I would

00:39:48 ◼   ► analyze it and go but it's not this

00:39:51 ◼   ► isn't like that at all yeah because in

00:39:53 ◼   ► the end they have her you know go and

00:39:55 ◼   ► take a bath and take off all her stuff

00:39:57 ◼   ► it's trying to say oh they'll all snap

00:39:59 ◼   ► out of it usually uh which eventually

00:40:01 ◼   ► Billy is gonna stop wearing dresses and

00:40:03 ◼   ► deciding that he wants to be a girl even

00:40:05 ◼   ► though it's the Bentley in fact that

00:40:09 ◼   ► Billy is no Sally yeah I don't think

00:40:10 ◼   ► they leaned on it that hard and I think

00:40:12 ◼   ► I mean I certainly was rooting for me to

00:40:14 ◼   ► snap out of it because of what she was

00:40:16 ◼   ► doing was stupid and had nothing to do

00:40:17 ◼   ► with anything else but you know if

00:40:19 ◼   ► that's what they were actually trying to

00:40:20 ◼   ► pitch it as that's awful well you're

00:40:22 ◼   ► supposed to hate the I mean the fact

00:40:24 ◼   ► that that the son like said like really

00:40:27 ◼   ► disrespects her and I felt like those

00:40:28 ◼   ► were moments that are very much like

00:40:30 ◼   ► he's basically like dead naming her he

00:40:33 ◼   ► is he is challenging her pronouns he is

00:40:35 ◼   ► making her wrongs not video that he wins

00:40:37 ◼   ► in the end he's like yeah that's right

00:40:39 ◼   ► we're just gonna hang out on the couch

00:40:40 ◼   ► and watch TV and you'll be human again

00:40:41 ◼   ► yeah everything is normal yeah and

00:40:43 ◼   ► you're going to conform you're going to

00:40:44 ◼   ► conform to what makes him comfortable

00:40:46 ◼   ► not wait yeah it's it's you know people

00:40:50 ◼   ► people hate the P word problematic and

00:40:53 ◼   ► oh gosh you know can we please stop

00:40:56 ◼   ► catering everybody and affirmative

00:40:57 ◼   ► action everything but but the the

00:40:59 ◼   ► problematic nature of it for me is that

00:41:01 ◼   ► when I started to feel like wait a

00:41:03 ◼   ► minute is this is this some writers

00:41:05 ◼   ► deciding that they're going to do a

00:41:06 ◼   ► trans metaphor and then it brought me

00:41:09 ◼   ► back into thinking about something that

00:41:10 ◼   ► I constantly think about watching a

00:41:11 ◼   ► bunch of sci-fi shows you know Star Trek

00:41:13 ◼   ► even being one of them as progressive a

00:41:15 ◼   ► Star Trek is there is so much ethnic

00:41:18 ◼   ► uttering that is in the way that they

00:41:19 ◼   ► characterize alien races where you've

00:41:21 ◼   ► got Klingons with fu-manchu's beards and

00:41:24 ◼   ► they're there there was that kind of

00:41:27 ◼   ► icky feel to the way that they were they

00:41:30 ◼   ► were trying to metaphorically play these

00:41:32 ◼   ► synths of varied races and genders as

00:41:36 ◼   ► metaphors for for for you know slavery

00:41:41 ◼   ► is just something that you get with

00:41:42 ◼   ► robots because that's that's part of how

00:41:44 ◼   ► they're set up where the word comes from

00:41:46 ◼   ► that that's pop that's part of why this

00:41:47 ◼   ► is such a problem because I there is not

00:41:50 ◼   ► a massive trend that people across the

00:41:51 ◼   ► earth pretending to be slaves because

00:41:53 ◼   ► that is not a

00:41:54 ◼   ► active proposition other you know

00:41:56 ◼   ► outside weird you know sex stuff or

00:41:58 ◼   ► whatever like yeah outside of people in

00:41:59 ◼   ► in full-body latex suits being walked

00:42:01 ◼   ► like a dog across the street yeah but

00:42:03 ◼   ► that's different I mean like like

00:42:04 ◼   ► literal actual American style slaves

00:42:07 ◼   ► like no one wants to be that because

00:42:09 ◼   ► it's not a fun thing to be no one wants

00:42:12 ◼   ► to be no one would want to be a synth to

00:42:13 ◼   ► the degree that it would be a widespread

00:42:15 ◼   ► thing one or two people have serious

00:42:16 ◼   ► mental problems and use it as like a you

00:42:18 ◼   ► know to hide from their like a difficult

00:42:20 ◼   ► family situation or whatever fine but to

00:42:22 ◼   ► be like everyone just knows that's the

00:42:24 ◼   ► thing and like you know one in five

00:42:26 ◼   ► people in your school are pretending to

00:42:27 ◼   ► be since they're they wouldn't want to

00:42:29 ◼   ► pretend to be since it's boring it's not

00:42:32 ◼   ► there was there was new wave and there

00:42:34 ◼   ► was Punk and then there was sin so

00:42:35 ◼   ► here's the thing that's the real missed

00:42:37 ◼   ► the real missed opportunity here is is

00:42:39 ◼   ► when they do this whole thing with Rini

00:42:41 ◼   ► and she takes off her out of you know

00:42:43 ◼   ► offer her contact lenses and she's just

00:42:45 ◼   ► sitting on the couch is the real shame

00:42:48 ◼   ► of it is what I wanted to have happen

00:42:50 ◼   ► because I think it would be an

00:42:51 ◼   ► interesting thing to see how characters

00:42:52 ◼   ► would process it is all the people who

00:42:54 ◼   ► acted like synths in order to take away

00:42:56 ◼   ► emotion and seem less human how do they

00:42:59 ◼   ► deal with the fact that all of a sudden

00:43:01 ◼   ► all the sins have feelings and he are

00:43:03 ◼   ► just as human as us and like what is

00:43:05 ◼   ► that what does that mean that you your

00:43:07 ◼   ► identity that you were trying to emulate

00:43:08 ◼   ► is now gone and they're like you I think

00:43:11 ◼   ► it actually might be kind of interesting

00:43:13 ◼   ► but we don't get there either because

00:43:15 ◼   ► they cut that storyline off and resolve

00:43:18 ◼   ► it and it's kind of uncomfortable I'm

00:43:20 ◼   ► trying to I'm trying to think of things

00:43:22 ◼   ► I liked I actually enjoyed the second

00:43:24 ◼   ► season but I was really frustrated by it

00:43:26 ◼   ► I felt like they didn't like weather

00:43:29 ◼   ► wasn't well planned or whether they had

00:43:31 ◼   ► some ideas and then realized halfway

00:43:33 ◼   ► through that they just weren't working

00:43:35 ◼   ► it just seems like or whether it really

00:43:38 ◼   ► was one season worth of story and then

00:43:40 ◼   ► they kind of had to invent a second

00:43:42 ◼   ► season well honestly it feels like they

00:43:45 ◼   ► had that first season of tight a lot of

00:43:47 ◼   ► really good stuff a lot of really

00:43:49 ◼   ► well-thought-out well-planned stuff and

00:43:51 ◼   ► then they had a bunch of like when we go

00:43:53 ◼   ► around and draft and it's like bringing

00:43:55 ◼   ► out your dead they had this bring out

00:43:56 ◼   ► your dead box of stuff that people

00:43:58 ◼   ► scribbled on note cards of oh you know

00:44:00 ◼   ► would be cool is if like the little girl

00:44:02 ◼   ► when the family decides that she wants

00:44:04 ◼   ► to pretend she's a synth like Mia slash

00:44:06 ◼   ► Anita

00:44:07 ◼   ► would be neat let's find a way to work

00:44:08 ◼   ► that they wrote down a bunch of story

00:44:10 ◼   ► ideas but they didn't video going it's

00:44:11 ◼   ► build a whole subplot into that let's

00:44:13 ◼   ► like that there there's their conscious

00:44:15 ◼   ► sense that are introduced in season two

00:44:17 ◼   ► that seemed like they have the beginning

00:44:20 ◼   ► of a hook and then they're anything

00:44:22 ◼   ► they're nothing if not just throwaway

00:44:25 ◼   ► characters that are just window dressing

00:44:26 ◼   ► yeah they have so many characters in the

00:44:28 ◼   ► show like I don't know you know season

00:44:29 ◼   ► one is you're just a ton of characters

00:44:31 ◼   ► right and and I think I think most of

00:44:34 ◼   ► the actors do do a good job with what

00:44:36 ◼   ► they're given in this and most of them

00:44:38 ◼   ► are likable in some way but in season

00:44:39 ◼   ► two I almost kind of wish that rather

00:44:41 ◼   ► than introducing yet more characters

00:44:43 ◼   ► that they had shed them because the

00:44:46 ◼   ► thing I like most about season two was

00:44:48 ◼   ► seeing the characters that I've come to

00:44:50 ◼   ► know and love from season one

00:44:52 ◼   ► I loved Niska I would like to see what

00:44:54 ◼   ► Niska gets up to all the time

00:44:55 ◼   ► I like Mia I loved Niska when she wasn't

00:44:58 ◼   ► in the middle of the stupid stupid legal

00:45:01 ◼   ► plot I really loved Niska I loved

00:45:02 ◼   ► niska's I think the scenes with her and

00:45:04 ◼   ► her girlfriend in Berlin are beautiful

00:45:07 ◼   ► they're beautiful and sad and and

00:45:09 ◼   ► wonderful and they fall in love and

00:45:10 ◼   ► Niska has to figure out how she's going

00:45:12 ◼   ► to react and how she's going to tell

00:45:13 ◼   ► yeah that's beautiful I liked the let's

00:45:16 ◼   ► say I liked these the plot with um with

00:45:20 ◼   ► the police woman I thought that was so I

00:45:23 ◼   ► liked Karen with her with her boyfriend

00:45:27 ◼   ► uh and and her crisis of confidence that

00:45:31 ◼   ► she has where she almost like regrets

00:45:33 ◼   ► him knowing that she's a synth because

00:45:35 ◼   ► she likes pretend you know um sir yeah

00:45:38 ◼   ► that was yeah Sanae talked and the the

00:45:40 ◼   ► the thing I love so much about Pete her

00:45:42 ◼   ► boyfriend is that he is like

00:45:44 ◼   ► stereotypical English cop yeah just on

00:45:47 ◼   ► his be trying to do his job like a real

00:45:49 ◼   ► cop

00:45:50 ◼   ► he knows since they're not he knows he's

00:45:52 ◼   ► batting way out of his League it's

00:45:55 ◼   ► another schlubby guy and beautiful woman

00:45:57 ◼   ► scenario on TV he looks like a Ricky

00:46:00 ◼   ► Gervais who is actually focused on

00:46:01 ◼   ► acting and doing well what he can do

00:46:04 ◼   ► well rather than being Ricky Gervais and

00:46:06 ◼   ► really like digging deep into the

00:46:09 ◼   ► character and playing it for for

00:46:11 ◼   ► everything and letting everything count

00:46:12 ◼   ► and his death honestly for me landed in

00:46:16 ◼   ► a way that didn't feel like fridging

00:46:18 ◼   ► that is you know where we see characters

00:46:20 ◼   ► killed off on shows for the sake of

00:46:22 ◼   ► advancing the plot motivating heroes

00:46:24 ◼   ► that kind of thing you know it felt

00:46:27 ◼   ► earned and it didn't feel like something

00:46:29 ◼   ► that I was expecting the whole way going

00:46:31 ◼   ► forward it managed to surprise me and we

00:46:34 ◼   ► could have lost more than him yeah

00:46:37 ◼   ► that's what I'm saying like so I there's

00:46:38 ◼   ► all the characters that I like and then

00:46:40 ◼   ► there's a whole swath of people who I

00:46:41 ◼   ► just not interested in anymore

00:46:44 ◼   ► like a lot of them yeah right or are are

00:46:46 ◼   ► plots hob came back from season one one

00:46:49 ◼   ► of the big bad types of season one who a

00:46:52 ◼   ► lot of people would probably best note

00:46:53 ◼   ► if they actually saw alien 3 as one of

00:46:56 ◼   ► the pivotal characters in alien 3

00:46:58 ◼   ► fantastic actor it was great getting to

00:47:01 ◼   ► see him for a moment there you know

00:47:02 ◼   ► there there were there were some of

00:47:04 ◼   ► those kind of like brief things Josie

00:47:05 ◼   ► Lawrence comedian plays the synth

00:47:08 ◼   ► therapist who I remembered from the

00:47:11 ◼   ► original British version of whose line

00:47:12 ◼   ► is it anyway

00:47:13 ◼   ► hilarious brilliant comedian hob as

00:47:15 ◼   ► Hobbs seen is great too because they

00:47:17 ◼   ► bring him back for one scene he's like

00:47:18 ◼   ► look I signed an NDA I can't help you go

00:47:20 ◼   ► talk to this person and then he's gone

00:47:22 ◼   ► that's it it's it was he's gone she's

00:47:24 ◼   ► like I'm staying here if you want a big

00:47:26 ◼   ► pile of money in a vacation home they'll

00:47:28 ◼   ► never be seen again ah yeah I guess what

00:47:30 ◼   ► he doesn't cause he never contacts her

00:47:32 ◼   ► again that's right II like that I was

00:47:34 ◼   ► totally on board with but it's like

00:47:35 ◼   ► we're getting toward the end of the

00:47:37 ◼   ► second season and they're like by the

00:47:38 ◼   ► way max needs a girlfriend we're gonna

00:47:40 ◼   ► introduce this girl kindergarten teacher

00:47:42 ◼   ► and and yeah all the people on the train

00:47:45 ◼   ► and then Leo and just like introducing

00:47:47 ◼   ► Hester it's just like there was just too

00:47:49 ◼   ► much and Mia's weird side plot with her

00:47:50 ◼   ► guy who she works for who she kind of

00:47:52 ◼   ► falls in love with but not quite and

00:47:54 ◼   ► then he betrays there like it was just

00:47:55 ◼   ► Jen you know any warts and like yeah you

00:47:57 ◼   ► concentrated on like concentrate on the

00:47:59 ◼   ► five characters that I care about the

00:48:01 ◼   ► most not saying you have to have one

00:48:02 ◼   ► like it's possible you know the maximum

00:48:05 ◼   ► number of characters you can get me

00:48:07 ◼   ► interested in have their own plot lines

00:48:08 ◼   ► was really lost really press the

00:48:10 ◼   ► boundaries of that like how many

00:48:11 ◼   ► characters can you have and sustain so

00:48:14 ◼   ► that they care about them and I think

00:48:15 ◼   ► humans had too many for the very least

00:48:17 ◼   ► this writing stay are able to to work

00:48:20 ◼   ► through and but everybody got a story

00:48:21 ◼   ► everybody got a thing they felt like

00:48:23 ◼   ► we're doing a great job everyone's got

00:48:24 ◼   ► their little arcs but some of them are

00:48:26 ◼   ► dumb Tom Tom Goodman Hill who plays mr.

00:48:29 ◼   ► Grove on mr. Selfridge and plays a

00:48:30 ◼   ► similar kind of

00:48:32 ◼   ► jerk dad on this show he got to like

00:48:36 ◼   ► come out as being like you know what I

00:48:39 ◼   ► banged the one synth last season and

00:48:41 ◼   ► turns out I want to like move to the the

00:48:44 ◼   ► sleepy British town version of like

00:48:46 ◼   ► Rhodesia that is quote-unquote racist

00:48:50 ◼   ► against synths and yes such an

00:48:52 ◼   ► understanding wife because the way she

00:48:53 ◼   ► how she doesn't look at him and say

00:48:56 ◼   ► you're an idiot and I adhere how she

00:48:57 ◼   ► stays with him I don't quite understand

00:48:59 ◼   ► like harsh levels well but he like he

00:49:02 ◼   ► Susan's like that's it I'm taking my

00:49:04 ◼   ► family and going to nonsense Ville and

00:49:06 ◼   ► if you disagree I'm divorcing you it's

00:49:08 ◼   ► like get the hell out of here also you

00:49:10 ◼   ► were you were the guy who got laid off

00:49:11 ◼   ► from his job in the factory she's the

00:49:13 ◼   ► successful attorney right and he's

00:49:15 ◼   ► giving a crap about oh you're gonna go

00:49:17 ◼   ► work again oh well you know whatever

00:49:19 ◼   ► it's important to know you got to go to

00:49:20 ◼   ► your work it's like come on yeah like

00:49:22 ◼   ► she is she was too understanding I

00:49:24 ◼   ► really like the wife and but that's the

00:49:26 ◼   ► other thing like they have the plot the

00:49:27 ◼   ► first season with the tension between

00:49:28 ◼   ► the two of them and they said you know

00:49:29 ◼   ► let's do that again for season 2 have

00:49:31 ◼   ► him be angry about the fact that she has

00:49:32 ◼   ► to go to work yeah like come on yeah

00:49:36 ◼   ► let's stretch out this in this fraught

00:49:39 ◼   ► relationship just for the sake of

00:49:40 ◼   ► knowing well we're probably gonna get X

00:49:42 ◼   ► number of seasons out of this thing so

00:49:44 ◼   ► let's just yeah keep that going for as

00:49:46 ◼   ► long as you got to worry about soap

00:49:47 ◼   ► right mm-hmm like ice all talk about

00:49:50 ◼   ► what we can do about soap and the Sun

00:49:52 ◼   ► the Sun has the love subplot with Rini

00:49:54 ◼   ► and the sofas just us her stupid thing

00:49:56 ◼   ► and what's-her-name that the daughter

00:49:58 ◼   ► gets to be computer hacker well that's

00:50:00 ◼   ► what I was gonna say meanwhile their

00:50:01 ◼   ► daughter is their older daughter is a

00:50:02 ◼   ► computer genius who has solved / solved

00:50:05 ◼   ► the problem / ended the world yeah she's

00:50:08 ◼   ► saving / destroying the world one of

00:50:10 ◼   ► those two she's definitely doing it she

00:50:11 ◼   ► is I want to follow her cuz she's doing

00:50:13 ◼   ► interesting stuff Maddie she's great

00:50:14 ◼   ► she's my favorite character I think

00:50:16 ◼   ► because certainly among the humans

00:50:17 ◼   ► because she has compassion for the

00:50:20 ◼   ► humans she has compassion for her family

00:50:22 ◼   ► although she seems a removed from both

00:50:23 ◼   ► and she's really smart and and I like

00:50:26 ◼   ► that when she gets cross-examined by the

00:50:29 ◼   ► the murderous synth Hester she like

00:50:32 ◼   ► Hester really wants to have a reason to

00:50:33 ◼   ► kill her and and she's like you know

00:50:36 ◼   ► totally believable she's like no I'm on

00:50:38 ◼   ► your side I believe in you I believe in

00:50:39 ◼   ► all of you and it's like she's a good

00:50:41 ◼   ► person and she's going to make this this

00:50:43 ◼   ► revolution happen if in the end she saw

00:50:46 ◼   ► like gets that last word of like yes you

00:50:48 ◼   ► go ahead and do it I should do it and

00:50:50 ◼   ► she presses return on her little surface

00:50:51 ◼   ► keyboard and off we go to the races

00:50:54 ◼   ► everybody's going to become conscious

00:50:55 ◼   ► you know I really like that character

00:50:57 ◼   ► there right but you're right John for

00:50:59 ◼   ► every minute that we get of Maddie we

00:51:01 ◼   ► get you know a couple of minutes of me

00:51:03 ◼   ► as near to well like diner owner

00:51:05 ◼   ► boyfriend that she commits tax fraud

00:51:07 ◼   ► with and then he we don't care about

00:51:09 ◼   ► it's like you can't fill out forms he

00:51:12 ◼   ► needs a robot we do it forms like

00:51:13 ◼   ► another winner yeah I'm not I'm not even

00:51:15 ◼   ► saying that we have to have just a

00:51:16 ◼   ► strictly like ABC plot structure we can

00:51:19 ◼   ► go ABCDEF even but this is an ABCD efg

00:51:23 ◼   ► hijk LMNOP and all over the place it's

00:51:29 ◼   ► it's almost like they're just thrown

00:51:32 ◼   ► against the wall to distract us from the

00:51:34 ◼   ► fact they're they just happen to kind of

00:51:36 ◼   ► dovetail into each other and I find

00:51:38 ◼   ► myself again it's like this I I enjoyed

00:51:42 ◼   ► season 2 but I kind of hate myself for

00:51:45 ◼   ► enjoying it as much as I think that I

00:51:46 ◼   ► did because I feel like I I just got I

00:51:50 ◼   ► get distracted into watching the show

00:51:52 ◼   ► and being like well I guess I got to

00:51:53 ◼   ► keep watching this cuz Niska is gonna be

00:51:55 ◼   ► back in about 15 minutes probably I like

00:51:57 ◼   ► the setting

00:51:58 ◼   ► I like the actors I like a lot of the

00:52:01 ◼   ► stuff that's in the show and that's

00:52:02 ◼   ► enough to get me to watch it and enjoy

00:52:04 ◼   ► it and even say that I think I think

00:52:06 ◼   ► it's unlike so many shows on TV that

00:52:09 ◼   ► it's worth a watch but that doesn't mean

00:52:11 ◼   ► that I didn't find it incredibly

00:52:13 ◼   ► frustrating and that they and you know

00:52:16 ◼   ► this is the shame of it if this was a

00:52:17 ◼   ► bad show I would just write it off and

00:52:19 ◼   ► be like well they don't know what

00:52:20 ◼   ► they're doing is that what's frustrating

00:52:21 ◼   ► is all of these like missed

00:52:24 ◼   ► opportunities could have probably been

00:52:27 ◼   ► good if they had taken a few of them and

00:52:29 ◼   ► done them better but instead they just

00:52:31 ◼   ► kind of pour them all on the blender and

00:52:33 ◼   ► like that's my disappointment the show

00:52:35 ◼   ► is that it could be way better and they

00:52:38 ◼   ► just kind of they kind of blew it I

00:52:40 ◼   ► still watched it all and we'll watch the

00:52:42 ◼   ► third season of it but boy it could have

00:52:44 ◼   ► been so much better and they just kind

00:52:46 ◼   ► of and they just kind of kind of blew it

00:52:48 ◼   ► I think one of the structural things

00:52:49 ◼   ► that makes this season like though is

00:52:51 ◼   ► talking about about the threads and like

00:52:54 ◼   ► how it doesn't hold together is like and

00:52:55 ◼   ► season one had the same number of

00:52:57 ◼   ► characters right it's because and

00:52:59 ◼   ► getting back to los 2 also had a huge

00:53:00 ◼   ► number of characters but manages to

00:53:02 ◼   ► sustain interest in them is that I one

00:53:05 ◼   ► way that I've seen successfully to do

00:53:07 ◼   ► this in both season one of humans and

00:53:08 ◼   ► loss is to have a central mystery

00:53:10 ◼   ► you got your seventeen bazillion people

00:53:12 ◼   ► but the central mystery of season one is

00:53:14 ◼   ► hey what's the deal with these conscious

00:53:16 ◼   ► scents and we eventually learn what the

00:53:17 ◼   ► deal is and about their creator and

00:53:19 ◼   ► where they came from and why they're

00:53:20 ◼   ► conscious and and the son who still

00:53:22 ◼   ► alive does have a scent like the central

00:53:24 ◼   ► mystery weaves them together what's the

00:53:26 ◼   ► central mystery of season two there is

00:53:28 ◼   ► none it's just a bunch of stuff going

00:53:29 ◼   ► off in different directions and we

00:53:31 ◼   ► eventually arrived at the Alba since

00:53:33 ◼   ► waking up but there is no central

00:53:35 ◼   ► mystery that is slowly revealed through

00:53:36 ◼   ► the actions of other people who

00:53:37 ◼   ► eventually come together there's none of

00:53:39 ◼   ► that there's so many different stories

00:53:41 ◼   ► and stuff that are going on they seem

00:53:42 ◼   ► like kind of vignettes not like a

00:53:44 ◼   ► threads all coming together to reveal

00:53:47 ◼   ► something in the end it's something that

00:53:49 ◼   ► if this were a quote unquote traditional

00:53:51 ◼   ► 22 episode of season American show I

00:53:54 ◼   ► would already be checked out yeah but

00:53:56 ◼   ► the fact that we're getting a season arc

00:53:59 ◼   ► of story and if they end up doing five

00:54:01 ◼   ► seasons of eight episodes of piece and

00:54:02 ◼   ► we end up with 40 uh you know 45-minute

00:54:07 ◼   ► episodes of this show I'll end up

00:54:09 ◼   ► sticking with it more readily than I

00:54:11 ◼   ► will a show that is killing itself to

00:54:14 ◼   ► stretch out to five seasons of 22

00:54:17 ◼   ► episodes that you know lost lost is lost

00:54:20 ◼   ► and lost happen at a very particular

00:54:23 ◼   ► time I miss lost lost happened during

00:54:25 ◼   ► college for me and I didn't get on board

00:54:27 ◼   ► the train and streaming didn't exist and

00:54:29 ◼   ► look technology was really weird but it

00:54:33 ◼   ► was it was something that that was just

00:54:36 ◼   ► a thing that people did and it is really

00:54:38 ◼   ► difficult to capture that magic in a

00:54:41 ◼   ► bottle and I'm I'm totally fine looking

00:54:44 ◼   ► at going okay the first three seasons

00:54:46 ◼   ► worth of this show is going to be

00:54:48 ◼   ► roughly the same number of episodes as

00:54:50 ◼   ► one season of an American show that is

00:54:52 ◼   ► spinning its wheels like crazy and this

00:54:55 ◼   ► one at the very least as incredibly

00:54:57 ◼   ► scattershot as all of it is it's all

00:54:59 ◼   ► still at least moving forward so I find

00:55:01 ◼   ► myself forgiving it way way more readily

00:55:04 ◼   ► than I do you know a 13-episode show on

00:55:07 ◼   ► Netflix that should be half that order

00:55:09 ◼   ► I didn't realize short seasons because

00:55:11 ◼   ► this is seemed longer to me you just

00:55:12 ◼   ► that doesn't feel like it's spinning as

00:55:13 ◼   ► wheels but you know realize it's just

00:55:15 ◼   ► eight episodes right season yeah eight

00:55:16 ◼   ► episodes most exams way longer I felt

00:55:19 ◼   ► like there was a way more treading water

00:55:21 ◼   ► even within the few lowly the the

00:55:23 ◼   ► carrie-anne moss problem there's no

00:55:24 ◼   ► momentum right yeah because there's so

00:55:26 ◼   ► much shifting from storyline to

00:55:28 ◼   ► storyline there's no relatively speaking

00:55:29 ◼   ► I think a lot of it for me is feeling

00:55:31 ◼   ► like it feeling like I'm investing less

00:55:34 ◼   ► time overall is because I'm so used to

00:55:36 ◼   ► you know shows going hey we've got a new

00:55:38 ◼   ► 45-minute show that's gonna have 22

00:55:41 ◼   ► episodes of season I'm alright I'll try

00:55:42 ◼   ► the first view of them and I'll go oh

00:55:44 ◼   ► god I can't I can't do this anymore and

00:55:46 ◼   ► it feels like a blessing to to know that

00:55:50 ◼   ► I am at maximum only going to be

00:55:53 ◼   ► trudging through a certain amount of

00:55:54 ◼   ► stuff like you know timeless on NBC I

00:55:57 ◼   ► think I ended up just putting on in half

00:56:00 ◼   ► watching in the background and barely

00:56:01 ◼   ► paying attention to and the only reason

00:56:04 ◼   ► that I stuck with it was because I

00:56:05 ◼   ► didn't really have to pay a lot of

00:56:07 ◼   ► attention to it but a show like this

00:56:09 ◼   ► that I have to pay more attention to I'm

00:56:12 ◼   ► willing to give eight episodes worth of

00:56:15 ◼   ► time to it then even take a chance on

00:56:17 ◼   ► most 22 episode shows huh and the

00:56:19 ◼   ► ambition of it keeps me around to the

00:56:21 ◼   ► idea that like this is a show that is

00:56:23 ◼   ► actually trying to explore complicated

00:56:26 ◼   ► issues of what does it mean to be human

00:56:28 ◼   ► what you know what what would be the

00:56:30 ◼   ► impact of these cents on on culture and

00:56:33 ◼   ► society what would it mean if there was

00:56:35 ◼   ► a second intelligent species on our

00:56:37 ◼   ► planet and how would we treat them and

00:56:38 ◼   ► would we be be fair to them or would be

00:56:41 ◼   ► cruel to them I mean these are big ideas

00:56:44 ◼   ► and I think that I cut the show slack

00:56:47 ◼   ► because I like to see a TV show that

00:56:48 ◼   ► dares to explore those big ideas even if

00:56:51 ◼   ► it is kind of fumbling around and

00:56:53 ◼   ► confused and stuff too much in the bag

00:56:56 ◼   ► which it totally did

00:56:57 ◼   ► well the Toby and Ann Rainey thing where

00:57:01 ◼   ► she hands over her adult options 18 plus

00:57:04 ◼   ► you know scratch off ticket to her

00:57:06 ◼   ► sexual agency and just like gives it to

00:57:08 ◼   ► him I was like oh good he's rejecting

00:57:12 ◼   ► this and but then the way that that

00:57:15 ◼   ► played out was very perfunctory Toby's a

00:57:18 ◼   ► good guy and this is him showing that

00:57:20 ◼   ► he's a good guy he's going to make good

00:57:22 ◼   ► guy decision

00:57:23 ◼   ► and it it's just kind of left there and

00:57:27 ◼   ► I don't know that they're gonna pick it

00:57:30 ◼   ► up and do anything with it necessarily

00:57:32 ◼   ► it was just like hey yeah this is

00:57:34 ◼   ► something that we had on a note card in

00:57:35 ◼   ► shoebox and we're gonna we're gonna burn

00:57:37 ◼   ► this one off because hey we got it to

00:57:39 ◼   ► burn off so why no Toby and Sophie need

00:57:41 ◼   ► to go away to camp all right yeah go

00:57:42 ◼   ► live in the country during the Blitz

00:57:44 ◼   ► they need to go wherever the the one

00:57:46 ◼   ► sister on Family Matters went upstairs

00:57:48 ◼   ► and never returned from for just a

00:57:51 ◼   ► little while just a little while in

00:57:52 ◼   ► season three Joe has taken Toby and Soph

00:57:56 ◼   ► to the synth free community and we don't

00:57:58 ◼   ► see them right they just say that for

00:58:00 ◼   ► the whole season the people who we care

00:58:02 ◼   ► about actually get stuff done yeah

00:58:03 ◼   ► exactly right that yes they've buried

00:58:06 ◼   ► all three of those characters in a point

00:58:08 ◼   ► of no return for me where I it would

00:58:10 ◼   ► take a significant amount of rolling

00:58:12 ◼   ► uphill to even get me interested in them

00:58:13 ◼   ► anymore yeah

00:58:14 ◼   ► so speaking of season three I'm thinking

00:58:16 ◼   ► about where you can go and what you said

00:58:18 ◼   ► Jason about the show is that it really

00:58:20 ◼   ► is classic sci-fi let's take this a sign

00:58:22 ◼   ► space premise and use it to you know put

00:58:24 ◼   ► up a mirror to society involve ah so

00:58:26 ◼   ► anyway with all the sense awake

00:58:28 ◼   ► you have many directions that you can go

00:58:30 ◼   ► in season three the one that they

00:58:32 ◼   ► probably won't go in because it cost too

00:58:34 ◼   ► much money is all out human robot war

00:58:36 ◼   ► right be awesome but this is not the

00:58:38 ◼   ► budget of the show does not support you

00:58:40 ◼   ► all at human robot war unfortunately oh

00:58:42 ◼   ► good news they got they got they got

00:58:44 ◼   ► money for wigs and contract yeah that's

00:58:46 ◼   ► right and and and suburban house said

00:58:48 ◼   ► yeah gardens and and office buildings

00:58:51 ◼   ► yep and sometimes the green fields

00:58:52 ◼   ► uh-huh give yourself so many corridors

00:58:54 ◼   ► if you love corridors this is you sure

00:58:56 ◼   ► yeah yeah alright many quarters that's

00:58:59 ◼   ► the thing about these shows like I'm you

00:59:01 ◼   ► know bringing to other shows that are

00:59:02 ◼   ► similar Cybermen's and similar like

00:59:04 ◼   ► budgets you know colony and travelers

00:59:06 ◼   ► they they do so much with so little

00:59:07 ◼   ► money yeah like to really ambitious

00:59:09 ◼   ► broad sci-fi premises and it's like lots

00:59:11 ◼   ► of interiors and people in close and

00:59:14 ◼   ► talking like and you know it works at to

00:59:17 ◼   ► varying degrees but for a season three

00:59:19 ◼   ► with this show you can do you can decide

00:59:22 ◼   ► what you know what is your analogy here

00:59:25 ◼   ► like in the same way I think one of the

00:59:27 ◼   ► shows that did this the best was the

00:59:29 ◼   ► good parts of Battlestar Galactica as a

00:59:31 ◼   ► reflection on the rock war yeah right

00:59:33 ◼   ► like that was so timely and and

00:59:36 ◼   ► no perfect and a great use of sci-fi to

00:59:39 ◼   ► talk about something without talking

00:59:41 ◼   ► about it without talking about so season

00:59:43 ◼   ► 3 they could do they could do apart I

00:59:46 ◼   ► they could do you know racism issue

00:59:47 ◼   ► brings it season 3 is the brags that

00:59:49 ◼   ► seats right they can do brags it they

00:59:51 ◼   ► they could they have so many different

00:59:53 ◼   ► choices they could you know if they want

00:59:55 ◼   ► to redeem themselves they could do like

00:59:56 ◼   ► homosexuality like there's so many

00:59:58 ◼   ► analogies

00:59:58 ◼   ► analogies

01:00:00 ◼   ► having suddenly this group of others but

01:00:02 ◼   ► are they really that other type of thing

01:00:04 ◼   ► they can go in some one different

01:00:05 ◼   ► direction and all those things do not

01:00:07 ◼   ► require big budgets it just requires

01:00:09 ◼   ► like people talking and having feelings

01:00:10 ◼   ► and people holding protest signs and

01:00:12 ◼   ► being angry and so I think despite the

01:00:15 ◼   ► fact that I thought like if they all

01:00:17 ◼   ► wake up a lot that's the season over

01:00:18 ◼   ► they've done enough establishment that

01:00:20 ◼   ► the tip that the cents are not they're

01:00:24 ◼   ► not a Skynet would would would be

01:00:26 ◼   ► disappointed in them yes they're bad

01:00:27 ◼   ► they are bad at exterminating humans

01:00:29 ◼   ► they're just pretty lousy and in the end

01:00:31 ◼   ► they probably just mostly want to live

01:00:33 ◼   ► so I feel like you have to go more of a

01:00:34 ◼   ► district nine direction or something

01:00:36 ◼   ► like that only with less score yeah and

01:00:39 ◼   ► so I'm kind of looking forward to them

01:00:41 ◼   ► doing that in season three as long as

01:00:42 ◼   ► they get rid of the characters I don't

01:00:43 ◼   ► care about right integration kind of

01:00:46 ◼   ► issues of issues of racism and

01:00:47 ◼   ► integrating two cultures and I was

01:00:49 ◼   ► actually going to throw out it's a

01:00:50 ◼   ► little like German reunification kind of

01:00:53 ◼   ► thing where it's like okay as a culture

01:00:55 ◼   ► we've decided to put these two cultures

01:00:57 ◼   ► together and there's going to be a lot

01:00:59 ◼   ► of bad feelings and there's gonna be a

01:01:00 ◼   ► lot of frustration and how do we make

01:01:02 ◼   ► this work together because they've just

01:01:05 ◼   ► been or like alien nation maybe a little

01:01:07 ◼   ► bit where yeah that kind of paranoia

01:01:09 ◼   ► stuff you get from alien nation like I

01:01:11 ◼   ► could see that really working where

01:01:12 ◼   ► season two a lot of a lot of the stuff

01:01:14 ◼   ► that kept me kept waking me up as I was

01:01:17 ◼   ► kind of starting to get bored of the

01:01:18 ◼   ► wheel spinning was where it turned into

01:01:21 ◼   ► a slasher movie sort of and and if if we

01:01:25 ◼   ► can get some kind of like follow the

01:01:27 ◼   ► Berlin Wall into the cold

01:01:28 ◼   ► Karen's got a new partner and they're

01:01:30 ◼   ► solving synth crimes yeah this old

01:01:34 ◼   ► subscribe the other way you know this is

01:01:36 ◼   ► uh again I'm read the comic book

01:01:38 ◼   ► suggesting the one not so great movie

01:01:40 ◼   ► but sort of x-men sentinels type thing

01:01:42 ◼   ► because if we take a face value these

01:01:44 ◼   ► sort of general docile nosov most since

01:01:46 ◼   ► the what would actually happen I feel

01:01:49 ◼   ► like in the scenario is that humans

01:01:50 ◼   ► would kill all since they put him in put

01:01:52 ◼   ► him in camp was not to put him in camps

01:01:54 ◼   ► they would just kill them well you kill

01:01:55 ◼   ► the dodo birds like they would just like

01:01:57 ◼   ► we're going to kill them in the same way

01:01:58 ◼   ► the Sentinels are killing all the

01:02:00 ◼   ► mutants there's no what they were doing

01:02:01 ◼   ► yeah but would that be interesting

01:02:02 ◼   ► though if then you had people pretending

01:02:03 ◼   ► to be since so they've got the contact

01:02:05 ◼   ► lenses in and you've got maybe since

01:02:06 ◼   ► pretending to be humans putting in

01:02:08 ◼   ► contact with less attractive to pretend

01:02:10 ◼   ► to be a synth when they're when they're

01:02:11 ◼   ► being exterminated you know but you

01:02:12 ◼   ► could have yet

01:02:13 ◼   ► fusion where people are killing since

01:02:16 ◼   ► that turn out to be people and there are

01:02:17 ◼   ► people that look like people but are

01:02:18 ◼   ► actually sensitive very complicated but

01:02:20 ◼   ► with that but that would like that would

01:02:22 ◼   ► end season 3 prematurely but I feel like

01:02:23 ◼   ► that with things establish as they are

01:02:26 ◼   ► humans are really really good at killing

01:02:29 ◼   ► other species that are competing for

01:02:31 ◼   ► them with them in any possible way right

01:02:34 ◼   ► like that's how we get to be the top of

01:02:35 ◼   ► the food chain we kill everything else

01:02:37 ◼   ► and so yeah suddenly there's another

01:02:38 ◼   ► sentient race and before you get the

01:02:40 ◼   ► sentence out of your mouth humans have

01:02:41 ◼   ► killed every single wolves they've

01:02:44 ◼   ► killed they're gonna kill like if you

01:02:45 ◼   ► are remotely a threat to us we will kill

01:02:47 ◼   ► you all we're really good at it we have

01:02:49 ◼   ► all the weapons and you are generally

01:02:52 ◼   ► docile and just waking up right but that

01:02:54 ◼   ► would end things real quickly unless you

01:02:55 ◼   ► wanted to do a scenario where the

01:02:56 ◼   ► Sentinel slash humans are kill all the

01:02:58 ◼   ► Simpson is like seven of them left in

01:03:00 ◼   ► there and hiding and that's what the

01:03:01 ◼   ► show is but I don't think they're going

01:03:03 ◼   ► to do that either well we'll find out

01:03:04 ◼   ► with the next season when it airs

01:03:06 ◼   ► probably like next week on channel 4 in

01:03:09 ◼   ► the UK and then in a year and a half on

01:03:10 ◼   ► AMC because that's what happened I

01:03:12 ◼   ► wonder if they'll put them more of them

01:03:13 ◼   ► on trials really like that it would be a

01:03:15 ◼   ► natural thing to happen in season 3 for

01:03:17 ◼   ► the good direction they're probably

01:03:18 ◼   ► going to go in terms of like are you a

01:03:19 ◼   ► human or are you a citizen or whatever

01:03:21 ◼   ► the office the office of synth crime I

01:03:23 ◼   ► hope it's not so bad a trial as those

01:03:26 ◼   ► that's the bed what I'm saying like they

01:03:28 ◼   ► get they get another shot at it it's

01:03:30 ◼   ► like we can you know it's got a new

01:03:31 ◼   ► group of riders in who has read a

01:03:33 ◼   ► science fiction book in their life or

01:03:35 ◼   ► watch a Star Trek episode and say we can

01:03:37 ◼   ► do that better we feel like so let's see

01:03:40 ◼   ► what we can do there yeah they can

01:03:41 ◼   ► overall you know Victims Unit

01:03:43 ◼   ► they can't go all the way to alien

01:03:44 ◼   ► nation because the only nation it would

01:03:46 ◼   ► be like season 5 of this show where it's

01:03:47 ◼   ► like alright well we've accepted that

01:03:49 ◼   ► they're here but it's an uneasy tension

01:03:51 ◼   ► between the groups unless they do a time

01:03:53 ◼   ► job which they could yeah if they want

01:03:56 ◼   ► to suppose they don't like salt water

01:03:57 ◼   ► you know okay I think the same thing

01:04:00 ◼   ► again but as my mind works away at all

01:04:01 ◼   ► the things don't make sense about the

01:04:02 ◼   ► premise of the show aside from the fact

01:04:03 ◼   ► that if it took you just to do since so

01:04:06 ◼   ► much other awesome tech would exist but

01:04:07 ◼   ► apparently doesn't is the idea that they

01:04:09 ◼   ► charge themselves they show it a lot in

01:04:10 ◼   ► the program like if they got a little

01:04:12 ◼   ► apple watch charger on on their on their

01:04:13 ◼   ► side

01:04:14 ◼   ► yeah and it's an important thing and

01:04:16 ◼   ► like Karen you know that's yourself

01:04:17 ◼   ► discharged and the kid saves her like

01:04:19 ◼   ► it's a plot point and as a mechanic that

01:04:20 ◼   ► they lean on right and I feel like you

01:04:23 ◼   ► know the same reason sense would be

01:04:24 ◼   ► killed like the damn dodo birds is

01:04:26 ◼   ► and it's especially Miskin stop their

01:04:28 ◼   ► stuff together if you don't know how to

01:04:31 ◼   ► produce electricity like every sin like

01:04:34 ◼   ► you are ompletely reliant on these magic

01:04:36 ◼   ► plugs but in human beings running power

01:04:38 ◼   ► plants for you to give your electricity

01:04:40 ◼   ► since need to know how to generate

01:04:41 ◼   ► electricity because it literally keeps

01:04:43 ◼   ► them alive it's like humans not knowing

01:04:44 ◼   ► how to breathe and like you know

01:04:46 ◼   ► something else breathing for them we

01:04:48 ◼   ► opened the second season with with a

01:04:49 ◼   ► synthetic coal mine so I mean they're

01:04:52 ◼   ► they're doing all the manual labor side

01:04:53 ◼   ► I know but like do they understand how

01:04:55 ◼   ► electricity works do they know like if

01:04:57 ◼   ► they killed all the humans would they be

01:04:58 ◼   ► like we kill all the humans but then I

01:05:00 ◼   ► put this plug in the wall to charter

01:05:01 ◼   ► myself at night and it's not working I'm

01:05:03 ◼   ► gonna be dead by morning like it seems

01:05:05 ◼   ► like a really important like prime

01:05:07 ◼   ► directive of like figure out how to get

01:05:08 ◼   ► food essentially or you're all going to

01:05:11 ◼   ► die that every since should be really

01:05:12 ◼   ► super duper concerned about a source

01:05:14 ◼   ► electricity so much so that they're

01:05:15 ◼   ► paranoid about movie you know why we go

01:05:17 ◼   ► hang out in the woods I need to plug in

01:05:19 ◼   ► every night or I'm gonna literally die

01:05:21 ◼   ► so I feel like this if I was a synth

01:05:25 ◼   ► that would be my number one concern

01:05:26 ◼   ► which is like if we kill all the humans

01:05:29 ◼   ► do you know how to make electricity

01:05:30 ◼   ► because does it just come out of the

01:05:32 ◼   ► wall magically because if we don't do

01:05:33 ◼   ► anything it will stop coming out of the

01:05:34 ◼   ► wall then we'll all be dead never

01:05:36 ◼   ► overthinking it yeah there's a bit of

01:05:38 ◼   ► hand-wavy 'im of of all of the sense

01:05:41 ◼   ► having some central repository of

01:05:43 ◼   ► knowledge where between all of them I

01:05:45 ◼   ► guess they all know how to run society

01:05:47 ◼   ► perfectly on their own I guess

01:05:50 ◼   ► maybe maybe yeah is they they felt they

01:05:52 ◼   ► fill all the different roles and they

01:05:53 ◼   ► feel like they will just slot right into

01:05:55 ◼   ► the same slots we were in before and

01:05:56 ◼   ► we'll pick up where they left off as

01:05:58 ◼   ► long as we don't break all their stuff

01:05:59 ◼   ► it that that's that's somewhat plausible

01:06:00 ◼   ► though you can like trying to gauge

01:06:03 ◼   ► what's in snow

01:06:04 ◼   ► yeah well that's nice game part of it is

01:06:07 ◼   ► it just it works it just works it's fine

01:06:11 ◼   ► well we'll find out for season 3 at some

01:06:13 ◼   ► point who knows when on BBC channel 4

01:06:16 ◼   ► and AMC but and we'll be back to talk

01:06:19 ◼   ► about it

01:06:20 ◼   ► then but until then I want to thank my

01:06:22 ◼   ► guests for talking about this show with

01:06:24 ◼   ► me Moises Cheon thank you thank you

01:06:26 ◼   ► Jason let me know if I can be of further

01:06:28 ◼   ► assistance and Jon siracusa thank you

01:06:32 ◼   ► forgot to mention the robo run just

01:06:34 ◼   ► every one picture it now run with your

01:06:36 ◼   ► arms really stiff alright we're gonna

01:06:38 ◼   ► run away penguin with your arse on

01:06:40 ◼   ► fire and maybe all the scents are now

01:06:42 ◼   ► waking up cliffhanger

01:06:43 ◼   ► this has been the incomparable I've been

01:06:45 ◼   ► Jason Snell we'll see you next time

01:06:48 ◼   ► [Music]