The Incomparable

351: You're Right, Father--Kill All Humans


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:01   the incomparable

00:00:05   number 351 May 2017 welcome back

00:00:13   everybody to the incomparable I am your

00:00:14   host Jason stell I'm here this time to

00:00:17   talk about another one of these this

00:00:19   raft of interesting science fiction

00:00:22   slash fantasy TV series that finished

00:00:25   airing their seasons this spring that I

00:00:28   enjoyed a lot and I want to talk to

00:00:29   people about them and so what what I do

00:00:32   is I have a podcast so I get to talk

00:00:34   about them with people on a podcast

00:00:35   instead of just in real life like most

00:00:38   people so in this episode we're going to

00:00:41   talk about humans a TV series that aired

00:00:44   last fall actually on channel 4 in the

00:00:46   UK and this spring on AMC in the u.s. we

00:00:50   covered season 1 in episode 263 of the

00:00:54   incomparable along with the first season

00:00:55   of mr. robot actually and we're back to

00:00:58   talk about season 2 of humans joining me

00:01:01   to talk about it are these two fine

00:01:02   gentlemen Moises Chu yan hello Jason how

00:01:06   may I be of assistance

00:01:07   thank you boy says it's good to have you

00:01:09   here also here is he a human or not wait

00:01:13   a second that's a wrong podcast it's Jon

00:01:15   siracusa hello sometimes the a is upside

00:01:18   down I know what is that what does that

00:01:19   mean it and then it flips around is it

00:01:22   like a little person going yeh with its

00:01:24   arms and then it puts this arm down like

00:01:25   oh or very confusing yeah they do that

00:01:30   in the credits to all the a is flip

00:01:31   around they're upside down maybe there's

00:01:35   a maybe there's something fee Matic

00:01:36   there I don't know so so humans before

00:01:39   we fire off the spoiler horn and talk

00:01:40   about the second season of humans I

00:01:41   thought we would talk a little bit in

00:01:43   general about it this show this is

00:01:45   obviously the second season we did talk

00:01:47   about it before the the when it

00:01:49   premiered along with mr. robot the

00:01:52   summer before last I always thought it

00:01:54   was amusing that the show these two

00:01:56   shows the show about humans is called

00:01:58   mr. robot and the show about robots is

00:02:00   called humans but it's not alert both

00:02:05   shows are actually about humans actually

00:02:07   about humans yeah turns turn out tones

00:02:10   just it's amazing how that happens the

00:02:13   idea here is that it's a near-future

00:02:15   world that's basically like ours

00:02:18   that these replicant type androids

00:02:21   called synths exist they're very

00:02:24   human-like in appearance which means

00:02:27   they can be played by humans as actors

00:02:29   but they are not sentient they are sort

00:02:33   of intelligent enough to do jobs but

00:02:36   they're they're kind of a just a almost

00:02:39   like a slave race but they're not

00:02:41   sentient they're just helpers they're in

00:02:42   a human-shaped extension of technology

00:02:45   but and this is the classic science

00:02:48   fiction but a few of them become

00:02:51   sentient and it raises all sorts of

00:02:54   questions about how they interact in

00:02:56   this culture and how their other fellow

00:02:58   since are being treated there's a

00:03:00   question of if you could make all of the

00:03:02   synths intelligent what would happen to

00:03:04   society creating an entire race of

00:03:07   sentient beings that human has been you

00:03:09   humans have been using just four four

00:03:11   four servants and so the first season

00:03:15   dealt with a lot of these issues and

00:03:16   then the second season deals with even

00:03:19   more of these issues what what what

00:03:22   should we say to people who maybe

00:03:23   haven't started this show about what

00:03:25   makes it interesting well it's a it's a

00:03:28   British show it is so it takes it's

00:03:31   supposed to take place like in London

00:03:33   right is that where they are yeah more

00:03:34   or less

00:03:34   yeah we the outlying areas you know

00:03:37   maybe I don't know Essex I don't who

00:03:40   knows sure yeah so what I would say to

00:03:42   tell people to check out this show is it

00:03:46   sounds like your basic sci-fi show and

00:03:48   if it was on American television the

00:03:49   premise you just described would be like

00:03:51   death you would just know would be

00:03:52   handled poorly but because it's a

00:03:55   British show a it does things a little

00:03:57   bit differently than you might expect

00:03:58   if you're as an American television

00:04:00   viewer so there's a little bit of extra

00:04:02   you know off-kilter flavor to it and be

00:04:07   I feel like it is it doesn't fall into

00:04:10   most of the traps that every American

00:04:12   show that wants to be sci-fi as what was

00:04:14   that show that was on briefly there was

00:04:15   like a like a buddy cop show where there

00:04:18   was a police officer and yeah almost

00:04:20   almost almost human with it with Karl

00:04:22   Urban in Libra that's a great example of

00:04:25   a similar issue premise handled way

00:04:29   worse by an American show so especially

00:04:32   season

00:04:32   we'll get to what I thought of season 2

00:04:35   and a little bit especially season 1

00:04:36   takes a light touch and really does

00:04:40   concentrate on the characters and takes

00:04:43   its time to get where it's going and

00:04:45   it's cool and refreshing

00:04:47   I agree the the basic premise the show's

00:04:51   an adaptation of I think it's a Swedish

00:04:52   series it's it's European in some

00:04:54   respect and sometimes when it's late at

00:04:56   night my brain gets addled and I refer

00:04:59   to all European countries as one

00:05:01   contiguous union of states I don't know

00:05:03   in the same way that Jason refers to all

00:05:06   British broadcast channels if you say

00:05:07   see something

00:05:08   yeah it's BBC for BBC channel 4 is this

00:05:11   case yeah BBC Sky BBC Sky whatever

00:05:14   that's just the actual sky in England is

00:05:16   the BBC sky as far as I'm concerned it's

00:05:18   usually cloud all the great BBC's all of

00:05:20   them and the the thing that we get in

00:05:24   the first season is a different angle

00:05:27   than the original show necessarily took

00:05:30   where it kind of it kind of starts out

00:05:31   action movie like in the middle of

00:05:33   something and you know some stuffs going

00:05:36   on we kind of take take the gentle

00:05:38   approach into this whole series of ideas

00:05:42   and concepts and what-ifs and questions

00:05:45   that play out across the I guess you

00:05:48   would say the landscape of to two

00:05:50   different families that are coming

00:05:52   together and ripping apart from the

00:05:53   inside in different respects one of them

00:05:55   a suburban type domestic family and the

00:05:57   other a family of synthetics who have

00:06:01   become self-aware that are not the kind

00:06:03   of I guess you would say in the

00:06:06   classical definition of robot slave

00:06:09   tools that happen to look talk and act

00:06:13   in many ways like human beings to the

00:06:16   extent that they can be played by

00:06:17   British actors who just wear wigs

00:06:19   colored contacts and adjust their

00:06:21   movement slightly and I you know I like

00:06:25   that they don't draw things out in some

00:06:29   respects in the first season something

00:06:31   that was mentioned back in episode 263

00:06:34   when you guys talked about this and mr.

00:06:35   robot and thankfully their chapter

00:06:37   markers so if for some reason you're not

00:06:38   caught up on mr. robot you can just skip

00:06:41   straight to the humans bit is that is

00:06:43   that the the show

00:06:45   ended its first season in a way that

00:06:47   that is kind of crazy making but that

00:06:50   I'm okay with in in ways that we'll get

00:06:54   into after the spoiler or into season

00:06:56   two to an extent but I'm it's it's a

00:06:58   show that has such a complexity of

00:07:01   multi-threaded storylines going on

00:07:03   simultaneously it's not just that

00:07:05   there's an a plot and a B plot there's

00:07:07   an a sub header 1 sub header 2 sub

00:07:09   header 3 series of plots going on that

00:07:13   are inter woven and simultaneous but at

00:07:16   once not cheap to the extent of

00:07:19   something like 2005 Best Picture winner

00:07:21   crash where everything just happens to

00:07:24   have something to do with everything

00:07:25   else this this for me is much more the

00:07:29   Internet of Things as people and

00:07:32   grappling with with what a parallel

00:07:35   current modern era would would do when

00:07:39   faced with this stuff in a way that

00:07:40   doesn't feel cheap and tacked on and

00:07:43   plastic and thoroughly thoroughly ruined

00:07:46   by by american-ness which i think is a

00:07:50   probably mischaracterizing but agreeing

00:07:52   with with the argument that john had the

00:07:55   other thing that i love about the show

00:07:56   like a lot of BBC itv BBC Sky type shows

00:08:00   is that there's a cornucopia of folks

00:08:02   that are in the regular cast that you

00:08:03   know you've got mr. Grove from the mr.

00:08:05   selfridge show that we have on PBS here

00:08:07   in the States

00:08:08   Katherine Parkinson from the IT Crowd

00:08:10   Gemma chan who has like three lines and

00:08:13   fantastic beasts and where to find them

00:08:15   is is one of the you know most you know

00:08:18   face forward you know characters in the

00:08:21   show in season two we get carrie anne

00:08:23   moss from the matrix and without dipping

00:08:28   into the spoiler side of things one of

00:08:29   the things that that I think season 2

00:08:31   earned is that we we don't just see this

00:08:36   technological revolution as it were from

00:08:39   one side of the Atlantic we get a look

00:08:42   at what's going on in Silicon Valley and

00:08:44   the types of people with a gigantic

00:08:46   amount of money and not as many morals

00:08:49   and how they are deciding to proceed in

00:08:52   this brave new world of sentient AI yeah

00:08:55   I'd say jumping on something John said

00:08:58   there - about how it does

00:08:59   feel because it's a British show it

00:09:01   feels different I like that it that

00:09:03   about it that makes it feel like it

00:09:05   doesn't have it doesn't feel like it has

00:09:07   high stakes when in fact it actually has

00:09:09   incredibly high stakes and it does feel

00:09:11   like it is it is a family drama in a lot

00:09:15   of ways it's not set in some sort of

00:09:18   future dystopia it's set in essentially

00:09:20   what feels like the present day except

00:09:22   for the science fictional elements there

00:09:23   are a lot of things I like about that

00:09:25   yeah it does it doesn't feel like the

00:09:26   the new Planet of the Apes movies but

00:09:29   they're similar levels of stakes of Oh

00:09:31   know what's going to happen right this

00:09:34   this does not I don't know either does

00:09:37   this not bode well or do we bring this

00:09:39   upon ourselves and we're looking at at

00:09:42   and I guess you would say the the alien

00:09:46   coexistence sort of sort of struggle but

00:09:50   from something that that was really

00:09:52   wholly created by ourselves well we

00:09:54   should we should probably just fire off

00:09:56   the spoiler horn and talk about talk

00:09:58   about season two of humans but I

00:10:01   definitely think it's on Amazon Prime in

00:10:04   the US the first season so you might

00:10:06   want to give it a watch and see what you

00:10:08   think of this UK take on questions of

00:10:13   sentience and and where these creatures

00:10:16   might fit in our society and how how the

00:10:18   existence of these kinds of beings might

00:10:20   affect humanity in fact it affect the

00:10:24   labour market which is actually I think

00:10:25   one of perhaps it's more trenchant

00:10:29   topics even though most labor is not

00:10:32   being replaced by robots walking around

00:10:36   looking like humans it's still an issue

00:10:37   of the future of the labour market but

00:10:39   with automation so there's a lot of

00:10:41   different things to touch this on but

00:10:42   we're going to blow up the spoiler horn

00:10:43   here and and dive in to a little bit

00:10:45   more about season two of robots

00:10:48   [Laughter]

00:10:52   all right things get really different in

00:10:54   season two um they're there part of me

00:10:57   thinks I'm wondering what you guys think

00:10:58   about this part of me thinks that season

00:11:00   one was originally conceived with more

00:11:03   of an ending I said on the last podcast

00:11:05   I really felt like season one was

00:11:07   walking straight forward until the last

00:11:09   episode to make all the sense on the

00:11:12   whole planet conscious and then it very

00:11:14   quickly ran away from it at the end of

00:11:16   the last episode it felt to me as if the

00:11:19   whole show realized wait we don't want

00:11:21   to close off the story because we might

00:11:23   come back and do more episodes and so

00:11:26   season 2 has a little bit of a reset

00:11:28   where they kind of have to add in some

00:11:30   new storylines and figure out what to do

00:11:32   with all the characters and I think

00:11:34   there are parts of that that are

00:11:36   problematic that they struggle with some

00:11:38   of it figure out figuring out what to do

00:11:40   and the irony of it all is that I feel

00:11:42   like the last couple of scenes of the

00:11:45   last episode of season 2 are exactly

00:11:46   what I thought the last couple of scenes

00:11:48   of season 1 would be with some of the

00:11:50   characters mixed around so they sort of

00:11:52   got to that dramatic point anyway they

00:11:54   just decided to put it off a season well

00:11:56   on a basic overall outline side of

00:11:57   things I feel that decompression in

00:11:59   season 2 where they either expected

00:12:03   season 1 to maybe get a renewal pick up

00:12:07   or they expected that to pretty much be

00:12:09   it and just take the check to the bank

00:12:12   from AMC probably spending more of the

00:12:15   money on this than channel 4 did just

00:12:17   because American cable channels even

00:12:19   though you compare American cable to

00:12:22   American broadcast budgets and cable has

00:12:26   a fraction of the budget that broadcast

00:12:28   show does and you know back end

00:12:31   incentives and syndication and all that

00:12:33   kind of stuff but those numbers for

00:12:36   cable in terms of what people get paid

00:12:38   on the production side of things the

00:12:40   actors the directors the writers

00:12:41   everybody absolutely Dwarfs what what

00:12:45   British television production budgets

00:12:47   are like you know where you have someone

00:12:49   like Michelle Gomez from Doctor Who who

00:12:51   is like yeah we just we we just kind of

00:12:54   crank through it you guys it's great

00:12:56   that you guys love the show so much but

00:12:58   there is not a ton of money in British

00:13:00   TV and there's a reason that a lot of us

00:13:02   find ourselves

00:13:03   wanting to find a big film franchise to

00:13:06   attach ourselves to so as far as I can

00:13:08   tell

00:13:08   channel 4 probably does actually pay the

00:13:10   pay the load of it especially given that

00:13:12   channel 4 in a much smaller country gets

00:13:15   more people watching humans more people

00:13:18   watch humans in the UK in the u.s.

00:13:19   despite the massive disparity in

00:13:22   population and it is made by kudos in

00:13:25   the UK so it's probably on their

00:13:27   schedules and on their more of their

00:13:29   sort of budgets but even you know a

00:13:31   little bit of backing from the US it

00:13:33   probably has a better budget it just

00:13:36   plain makes it something that can be

00:13:37   done and instead of the British shows

00:13:39   that'll do two seasons and be done

00:13:41   they're suddenly going well it looks

00:13:44   like we can stretch this out a bit and

00:13:45   as much as I enjoyed season 2 it felt

00:13:48   like it felt like creating additional

00:13:51   runway to not run out of and and all I

00:13:56   mean that just there's there's a bunch

00:13:59   of cool dramatic stuff that happened

00:14:00   throughout the course season two and a

00:14:02   lot of cool character stuff that

00:14:03   happened but I hated that I enjoyed the

00:14:07   wrap-up of season two as feeling more

00:14:09   satisfying because it felt like what we

00:14:11   should have seen at the end of season

00:14:13   one in terms of progressing the story

00:14:14   along and they probably could have done

00:14:16   this whole show in like two six or eight

00:14:20   episode seasons and covered all of the

00:14:22   ground that they wanted to cover but

00:14:25   it's you know inserting new characters

00:14:27   inserting additional plot lines

00:14:28   inserting more supporting cast that are

00:14:31   that are conscious synths and that

00:14:33   that's that that's kind of the struggle

00:14:36   that I found myself with on when it

00:14:38   comes to season two could be like Friday

00:14:40   Night Lights right and Friday Night

00:14:42   Lights right you can just skip season

00:14:43   two and pretend it never happened to

00:14:45   just literally stitch the last episode

00:14:48   of season two on to season one and be

00:14:50   like and all the sense woke up yay

00:14:52   yeah it's like hey guess what okay you

00:14:54   watch none of this by the way

00:14:56   carrie-anne moss is here and she has her

00:14:58   daughter's consciousness or a backup

00:15:00   version of it uploaded into a bunch of

00:15:02   servers and also there is a synth who

00:15:05   became conscious and now the final

00:15:07   episode of season two is like a slasher

00:15:08   movie and most of season two really

00:15:10   comes off like a horror show I do like

00:15:13   the idea that not all the censor gentle

00:15:16   and that there is this psychopath synth

00:15:18   who is who is she slot were acting

00:15:21   logically but she does not care about

00:15:22   killing people or being violent but I

00:15:25   want to talk about Carrie and moss

00:15:26   because this is one of those things at

00:15:27   first there's part of me that's like is

00:15:29   this the American co-producer saying

00:15:30   let's get some American characters in

00:15:32   the show because she's American we start

00:15:35   out and she's in California a day at a

00:15:37   google-like company where there's a

00:15:39   there's a charismatic CEO who's a

00:15:43   wunderkind and he's got ideas about AI

00:15:45   and he's hired her to finally give her

00:15:48   the money she needs to further her

00:15:50   project and at the beginning of the

00:15:52   season I was really intrigued by that

00:15:54   storyline because the idea there is that

00:15:55   she has this AI in a computer and I

00:15:59   really like the the reflection there the

00:16:02   opposition there of we have we know

00:16:04   there's AI it's happened urgently in

00:16:06   these synths out in the world and then

00:16:09   here we have a researcher who's trying

00:16:10   to build AI in a computer completely

00:16:14   different tack tactic and technique and

00:16:17   I I was really intrigued about how that

00:16:20   might interact and it is one of the

00:16:24   aspects of season two that I think ended

00:16:26   up being kind of a failure there are

00:16:28   some emotional notes in there but I feel

00:16:29   like in terms of the themes of the show

00:16:31   it didn't really challenge me to think

00:16:34   about the overarching themes of

00:16:37   intelligence and responsibility and

00:16:39   ended up being much more about a mother

00:16:41   who's grieving over the loss of her

00:16:42   child and trying to replace them in

00:16:45   artificial intelligence and I felt like

00:16:47   the all that we really got in terms of

00:16:49   interacting with the since was this sort

00:16:51   of haphazard attempt to put the AI in a

00:16:56   synth body but it was never really clear

00:16:58   and it was ultimately you know it's sort

00:17:00   of like that storyline just kind of got

00:17:02   sniped at the end there's one final

00:17:04   confrontation carrie-anne moss puts a

00:17:05   you know puts the plant on her desk in a

00:17:07   box and walks out of the building and

00:17:09   that's the end and it was that was

00:17:12   disappointing because I really thought

00:17:13   that this was a an interesting

00:17:15   opportunity to do the since intelligence

00:17:17   in a different light and in the end sort

00:17:19   of nothing came of it I mean maybe

00:17:20   something will come of it in a future

00:17:22   season but I

00:17:22   since the AI is now like out on the

00:17:24   internet and on servers in China or

00:17:26   something but that felt much more like

00:17:28   they were just sort of sweeping it under

00:17:29   the rug

00:17:30   and getting back to their original story

00:17:32   and making me wonder why we even had

00:17:34   that plotline next season next season a

00:17:37   subplot line with Michelle Yeoh set in

00:17:40   Hong Kong and yeah ooping of Soviet

00:17:43   co-production was Chinese TV yeah

00:17:44   exactly

00:17:45   Jon would you think of the great that so

00:17:47   the that AI I mean it was pretty early

00:17:50   in the season and I was also kind of

00:17:52   excited to see it but but as soon as it

00:17:53   appeared I realized very early on in

00:17:55   season 2 something that would bug me for

00:17:57   the entire season which is season 1 did

00:18:01   the thing that you know first seasons of

00:18:02   shows like this do or at least the good

00:18:03   ones do it's like they don't tell you

00:18:06   the whole condition of the world right

00:18:08   away right just go goes about its story

00:18:10   and soon you learn they're these things

00:18:11   called synth and you know how do these

00:18:12   cents work who has them what what do

00:18:14   they do and like as the episodes

00:18:16   progressed more and more of the world is

00:18:18   revealed to you so you're you know does

00:18:20   it look kind of like now but it's not

00:18:21   quite like now and so it takes its time

00:18:23   over the course of season one showing

00:18:26   you revealing its world to you and

00:18:28   revealing all these different

00:18:29   interactions and by the end you kind of

00:18:31   have a reasonable picture of it and then

00:18:32   the season ends season 2 we more or less

00:18:35   know how the world works and for me

00:18:37   personally since I'm such a annoying

00:18:40   stickler for this type of stuff in

00:18:41   sci-fi um I was free then too you know

00:18:45   you're not going to be revealing

00:18:46   anything new about the world we even

00:18:48   learned all about like what's his name

00:18:49   Elster or whatever like and it's all

00:18:51   family like we know all that backstory

00:18:53   we know the current situation we know

00:18:55   all the parameters and that left my

00:18:57   brain free to think about unfortunately

00:19:00   the the I don't know I have a good name

00:19:05   for it but like the the sci-fi thing

00:19:07   that I harp on all the time where if

00:19:09   this is possible what would then what

00:19:12   else would also be possible yeah

00:19:14   Pandora's Box is already open why is it

00:19:17   not wreaking more havoc than we've got

00:19:19   so far

00:19:20   yeah re not even for the a I think so

00:19:22   like heard that for the subconscious

00:19:24   thing for the AI specifically their

00:19:26   premise in the beginning is that

00:19:27   carrie-anne moss is working on this

00:19:28   thing and she's got this AI and you know

00:19:31   someone so forth and it's like the pitch

00:19:33   of like the the Mark Zuckerberg

00:19:35   surrogate dude it's like hey come to our

00:19:37   company will give you the more resources

00:19:38   your AI can't be contained we'll give

00:19:40   you a bigger server farm and so on

00:19:42   so and it's like alright listen we

00:19:45   already know that non-conscious since

00:19:48   not the conscious ones but the plain old

00:19:50   non conscious ones are already smarter

00:19:53   and more capable than this stupid grass

00:19:54   computer thing you need a whole server

00:19:57   farm you can't fit it you need a bigger

00:19:59   server farm and you can't get your

00:20:01   stupid in computer AI work the regular

00:20:03   run-of-the-mill you can go to the store

00:20:05   and buy one non-conscious since they're

00:20:07   smarter and they fit inside a single

00:20:08   packaging you charge them every night so

00:20:11   I don't see how that fits in your

00:20:12   worldview and yes I was also looking for

00:20:15   an interaction between the disembodied

00:20:18   AI and the body AI but that totally

00:20:20   switched gears into a mother-daughter

00:20:21   thing and by the way I had my first kind

00:20:23   of like Harrison Ford effect thing with

00:20:26   carrie-anne moss because when they first

00:20:27   showed the scene of like when just

00:20:28   showing flickering memories of her with

00:20:30   uh you know our daughter at the

00:20:31   waterfall and everything I totally

00:20:33   thought that was her girlfriend because

00:20:34   in my view no carrie-anne moss is the

00:20:36   age she was in the matrix and so the

00:20:38   other actors but they're it's like oh

00:20:39   it's like you when you see Harrison Ford

00:20:41   with like someone who was half his age

00:20:42   you're like oh that works perfectly I'm

00:20:43   just used to seeing that well I saw

00:20:45   carrie-anne moss but this 20 year old

00:20:46   girl I'm like you know it must be her

00:20:49   girlfriend no it was her daughter it's

00:20:50   her daughter I literally visually can't

00:20:53   compute carrie-anne moss as not being

00:20:55   the ages and I mean you saw a time

00:20:57   displacement paradox where there was

00:20:58   none yeah but anyway the detect the tech

00:21:01   comparison of the AI stuff really hard

00:21:03   that bothered me I accepted that because

00:21:05   again I expected them to go place they

00:21:08   didn't go and that's one of the things

00:21:09   that frustrated me is that I was

00:21:11   thinking cuz we're introduced to her and

00:21:13   she's this amazing you know researcher

00:21:15   who's at the forefront of AI research

00:21:17   and she's finally going to be well

00:21:19   funded and she's going to break this

00:21:20   thing right

00:21:21   except we as viewers know it's done it

00:21:23   already happened it happened naturally

00:21:25   it happened to merchant Lee with you

00:21:28   know with the help this this code that

00:21:29   that what Elster was working on it's

00:21:32   like we know that they made a

00:21:34   breakthrough and that the sense can be

00:21:36   smart we don't need giant servers to do

00:21:38   it so I kept thinking it's like oh I

00:21:40   think I actually said a lady you are

00:21:42   about to be really disappointed right

00:21:44   like all my life's work and then this

00:21:46   happens and I thought that would be

00:21:48   interesting drama like she's trying to

00:21:50   try to revive her daughter she has has

00:21:53   been thinking of AI as kind

00:21:54   from this direction it's come from this

00:21:56   different direction what is she gonna do

00:21:58   can she adapt can is you gonna make a

00:21:59   new kind of of sente I that is different

00:22:03   in some way like I was ready for that

00:22:05   kind of clash and there is it just isn't

00:22:08   there

00:22:09   there's nothing there but but like I

00:22:11   said I don't think it's a consciousness

00:22:12   it's the non conscious since the regular

00:22:14   ones that just bringing way yeah the

00:22:16   sort of two ones those are smarter than

00:22:18   area because hurry eyes like try and

00:22:20   talk to have what do you think of this

00:22:21   how do you feel bad it's the thing is

00:22:22   like a toddler where is the the non

00:22:24   conscious one I don't know in talk to

00:22:26   like an adult and they can they can

00:22:27   navigate the world and have bodies and

00:22:29   can do chores and laundry you can argue

00:22:31   I'd say it's differently intelligent

00:22:32   because she's trying to replicate like a

00:22:34   human with all these memories and all

00:22:35   this and kind of have them grow up and

00:22:37   yeah and all of that across a spread

00:22:39   across a gigantic amount of virtual

00:22:40   machines using a contemporary

00:22:42   contemporary level processors and so on

00:22:46   where is the synth technology is is that

00:22:49   like unobtainium a kind of thing where

00:22:51   they have this network that's on par

00:22:53   with data from Star Trek

00:22:54   yeah like it seemed like that it seemed

00:22:56   like from different shows they just seem

00:22:57   like they're from now and that's and

00:22:59   that's why I expected it to be a rude

00:23:01   awakening for her where marks occur will

00:23:03   be like forget this server crash look

00:23:04   the sins can do it she doesn't know

00:23:06   what's going on in the UK she's just

00:23:08   been toiling away in California has no

00:23:09   idea oh by the way in UK they have like

00:23:11   literal like you know intelligent robots

00:23:14   wandering around not the conscious once

00:23:16   again the conscious ones forget the

00:23:17   conscious ones are just like and that's

00:23:19   that's another thing of the show right

00:23:20   the pitch of the show and it has to be

00:23:23   the pitch of the show is that the

00:23:24   sentient conscious synths are greater

00:23:29   than better than more intelligent than

00:23:32   more sophisticated than the non

00:23:33   conscious ones right but I actually

00:23:37   don't see much evidence that they are

00:23:39   more human-like but I'm not entirely

00:23:42   sure that anything on the show actually

00:23:45   supports the idea that they are there

00:23:47   more than you might be right because

00:23:48   there are more like you know because

00:23:50   they react more like humans and they

00:23:52   have quote-unquote feelings but the

00:23:53   other ones are very good at reading

00:23:55   people and understand when you're upset

00:23:57   and they do the stupid thing with a with

00:23:59   a voice I can tell you are upset because

00:24:00   your heart rate and but which is stupid

00:24:02   but it shows that they have perhaps a

00:24:04   greater understanding of humans than the

00:24:06   conscious ones do and

00:24:07   to feeling like they have directives

00:24:09   they're just they're just not human like

00:24:10   so we can't relate to them and they they

00:24:12   acrobatically and talk erotica but in

00:24:14   general they can do everything we can do

00:24:17   and they could understand our thoughts

00:24:18   and feelings and suggestions perhaps in

00:24:20   a way is better than humans so that you

00:24:22   know I don't know maybe maybe too much

00:24:23   on the robot side here Joan did this

00:24:25   season of humans make you distressed how

00:24:27   can I help

00:24:28   well I was rooting for Niska to kill

00:24:30   everybody a lot in the cold season too

00:24:32   so I don't know I don't know if I'm on

00:24:33   the right side of the show like I have

00:24:35   this this this III had the same kind of

00:24:39   anticipatory interest in what was going

00:24:41   on at the carrie-anne moss thread where

00:24:43   it was it was almost built like this

00:24:46   self-aware AI classic monster narrative

00:24:50   like Frankenstein's monster kind of

00:24:52   thing of you've opened the door doing

00:24:54   this and what are the consequences of

00:24:56   doing that and that's kind of how her

00:24:58   plotline ended up playing out where she

00:25:01   tempted fate by taking Zucker jerks

00:25:03   money and resources and access and

00:25:07   everything and the dominoes kept falling

00:25:10   to an extent but it just it didn't quite

00:25:13   catch fire and I was I was getting bored

00:25:16   with it and I wanted to be more and more

00:25:18   excited about the level of of danger and

00:25:21   and suspense that was in it and there

00:25:25   was progressively less and less of that

00:25:26   as the as the season ended up going on

00:25:29   and at the same time I had I had this

00:25:31   thought of along the lines of what

00:25:34   John's saying where these sense who

00:25:36   become aware and and have emotions and

00:25:40   everything it's like the first few

00:25:43   minutes of the episodes of Star Trek The

00:25:45   Next Generation when data has emotions

00:25:46   and all of a sudden he's not quite as

00:25:49   efficient and powerful and great because

00:25:51   he's compromised by having to compensate

00:25:54   for these emotions that he's not used to

00:25:56   dealing with these urges these feelings

00:25:59   these things that distract him and I

00:26:01   don't feel like the show did well I do

00:26:06   and I don't there were moments where I

00:26:07   felt like they played it really well

00:26:09   with the various self-conscious sense

00:26:11   that did have those sorts of crises but

00:26:16   then others were just kind of dippy and

00:26:19   stupid and distracted

00:26:20   yeah and if anything it seemed like

00:26:22   giving them that self-awareness giving

00:26:24   them that consciousness if anything made

00:26:27   them radically less capable of the Rise

00:26:30   of the Planet of the synths kind of

00:26:31   thing that we kind of thought we were

00:26:33   going to get at the end of season one

00:26:34   they're sort of kind of teasing at the

00:26:37   end of season two or season two ended up

00:26:40   playing with different versions of where

00:26:41   it was we are going to lead our soldiers

00:26:43   from their prison and we will take over

00:26:45   this world and they will no fear and

00:26:47   like x-men villain lines but I just I

00:26:52   don't know that I if if they are going

00:26:56   to play that the way that it seems they

00:26:58   are which is that it's more of a

00:26:59   liability than an advantage and this

00:27:02   this brings me back to some of the stuff

00:27:03   in the magician's about getting rid of

00:27:05   your shade and not feeling your trauma

00:27:07   not feeling post-traumatic stress not

00:27:09   feeling any of that kind of stuff not

00:27:11   having to deal with it

00:27:13   viewing that as a distraction maybe

00:27:16   maybe that's that's pretty much the the

00:27:18   reverse that they have set up as the

00:27:20   conditions of this world that having

00:27:22   those kinds of emotions is something

00:27:24   that is way more of a liability than

00:27:26   anything else if that's the case then

00:27:28   what are they doing in season 3 well

00:27:29   they kind of infantilized this sense

00:27:31   some of the sense make them be like that

00:27:33   you know sort of scared toddlers or

00:27:35   whatever but in order for them to have

00:27:36   that robot skill all human story there

00:27:39   have to be ones that are different than

00:27:41   that the ones that have ambition and and

00:27:44   are more sophisticated levels of thought

00:27:46   like it's it's strange they try to

00:27:49   actually you know put a pin on this

00:27:50   thing of saying you're just like human

00:27:52   some of you are nuts and some of you are

00:27:54   dummies and you know like there is a lot

00:27:57   of variety you got like max who's always

00:27:58   smiling it looks dumb but has like you

00:28:00   know wisdom and emotional intelligence

00:28:02   and you've got the Elster kid it was

00:28:04   just a jerk and doesn't know what that

00:28:05   he's doing and you've got psychopath

00:28:07   lady Hester and you got Niska who's I

00:28:09   think the most identifiable as an adult

00:28:12   intelligent thinking human who kind of

00:28:14   sees what it's state what's at stake has

00:28:16   the wherewithal to do something about it

00:28:18   maybe conflicted about going one way or

00:28:20   the other but actually acts like you and

00:28:22   then the other ones that wake up like

00:28:24   they never seem to get out of toddler

00:28:25   phase and so it's not you know I

00:28:28   appreciate that they're trying to show

00:28:30   that there's a variety but if they're

00:28:31   going to have since the versus using hee

00:28:34   round one in the next season it's going

00:28:37   to be a little messy it's not going to

00:28:39   be like a West world kind of not even a

00:28:40   West row kind of like semi organized

00:28:43   revolt of some code yeah superior beings

00:28:46   versus inferior beings it seems a lot

00:28:48   more messing that which which may be

00:28:49   appropriate well the the big revelation

00:28:51   at the end of the episode of the last

00:28:53   episode and something that I kind of

00:28:54   liked was there is a there is an

00:28:57   enjoyable speech that Laura gives to

00:29:03   Hester the the murderous synth that and

00:29:09   I really liked it because it is the show

00:29:11   just laying down all its cards at that

00:29:12   moment and she says um you're not you're

00:29:18   not something different because she's

00:29:19   very much like we're different and you

00:29:20   have to respect us and you know we're

00:29:22   gonna we're gonna be here and and I'm

00:29:25   gonna kill people and it's gonna be

00:29:26   great and and she's like we didn't make

00:29:28   a new race we made artificial humans but

00:29:33   you're humans you have the same problems

00:29:36   and the same she said she says like if

00:29:39   you were a human you would be diagnosed

00:29:41   for your for your mental illness that

00:29:43   you have and for the problems you had

00:29:45   when you started life you are humans the

00:29:49   synths are not an alien race they're

00:29:52   just a different kind of person and we

00:29:54   can we can debate whether the text of

00:29:57   the show

00:29:57   actually bears that out or not but I

00:29:59   feel like that is actually what the what

00:30:01   the what the producers have been arguing

00:30:03   kind of all along which is that you know

00:30:05   this is not the science fictional

00:30:07   emergence of a global super intelligent

00:30:09   robot it isn't Skynet awakening it's not

00:30:12   it's just what it turns out these are

00:30:15   people too to just like us except

00:30:17   artificial but they're just like us and

00:30:19   they have all the same problems that we

00:30:21   do they're just an artificial bond maybe

00:30:23   a little dimmer than we are though like

00:30:24   I sort of said maybe just like as accept

00:30:26   me I mean arguably make sense because

00:30:28   they're literally younger like they're

00:30:30   not that many exactly I have a childhood

00:30:31   to go through but I mean but again for

00:30:33   the show to be able to make progress on

00:30:35   any kind of thought you have to have

00:30:36   some of them be essentially adults like

00:30:38   you know intelligent knowledgeable

00:30:40   emotionally sophisticated adults the

00:30:43   first wave is is is more and they try to

00:30:46   show some of that in the first episode

00:30:47   of the second season

00:30:48   where they show the awakening of some

00:30:49   new characters and you get that sense

00:30:51   that like they're really kind of out to

00:30:53   sea and we see with OD when OD gets

00:30:55   upgraded which I again it was nice to

00:30:57   see him because I liked the bittersweet

00:30:59   nature of the William Hurt storyline

00:31:02   from season one at the same time they

00:31:03   kind of didn't really use him it was

00:31:05   just sort of like we could bring him

00:31:06   back I was hoping he was gonna go to the

00:31:08   priest and decide you know what you're

00:31:10   right father kill humans like he's like

00:31:12   he was trying to arrive like he was

00:31:15   obviously conflicted he doesn't really

00:31:16   know where his place is he's trying to

00:31:17   side in the end he decides to go the

00:31:19   other direction just you know off

00:31:20   himself back to robots Ville can't

00:31:23   handle the pain of being alive at a time

00:31:24   but like but I'm not understanding like

00:31:27   not quite sure what I could do like and

00:31:29   yeah but a lot of interesting problems

00:31:32   it just kind of didn't go anywhere with

00:31:33   the other one that really really chapped

00:31:37   my whatever's that expression is which

00:31:40   is a classic sci-fi thing which I don't

00:31:42   know if is it a Star Trek episode you

00:31:43   guys can tell me the experts the Travis

00:31:46   but but certainly there are a million

00:31:47   other ones you've got yes you've got

00:31:49   Niska and she turns yourself in because

00:31:51   it's her move to do let's see if you are

00:31:54   conscious you can do just a whole season

00:31:57   with that is the a lot and be super

00:31:59   interesting and they just left it all on

00:32:01   the table just a lost opportunity able

00:32:03   like the few scenes they had of like

00:32:05   their interrogators like how much you

00:32:07   paying for these lawyers because they

00:32:08   are terrible really I may have never

00:32:11   Astaire never read a sci-fi book in

00:32:12   their life what are you even doing yeah

00:32:14   I mean one of the most iconic episodes

00:32:16   of the next generation is called the

00:32:17   measure of a man where Captain Picard

00:32:19   basically defends the humanity of data

00:32:22   or actually no he he he argues against

00:32:25   it and commander Riker has to has to

00:32:27   defend data and it is those nights yeah

00:32:31   okay her prosecutes data Picard says no

00:32:33   no he's sentient and it is important

00:32:36   thing is a bald guy in a guy with a

00:32:37   beard haha

00:32:38   dual in a courtroom over the sentience

00:32:41   of an artificial human here it's women

00:32:43   in suits yeah what what could be a more

00:32:45   like that has been done so many times

00:32:46   the core of so many sci-fi stories and

00:32:49   you can like just if you just copied

00:32:51   other people that you can do it well and

00:32:53   they would just seem so uninterested

00:32:55   into in what makes us conscious or alive

00:32:58   yeah it's it's it's let's throw this

00:33:00   giant pile of

00:33:01   red herring on a table and then just

00:33:02   sweep it all back into the bay I was so

00:33:04   excited to have that be one of the plot

00:33:07   lines I thought this is really like

00:33:08   early on the season this is really going

00:33:09   good we got Kerry and moss in this clash

00:33:11   and she's gonna be you know rude

00:33:12   awakening that her research is wasted

00:33:14   because the you know the sense was the

00:33:16   answer and then we got the the legal

00:33:17   thing and the legal thing yeah it is a

00:33:20   rich storyline too even if the ultimate

00:33:23   results is the same which is the powers

00:33:26   that be have got their thumb on the

00:33:27   scale and they're just not going to let

00:33:29   this happen

00:33:29   you could have still explored this is

00:33:32   what the show is about right it's

00:33:33   exploring issues of what is she what

00:33:35   does it mean to be human what does it

00:33:37   mean to have rights this is this is you

00:33:39   could there are political ramifications

00:33:41   storytelling like this there's so much

00:33:42   you could do with this that makes for

00:33:44   good science fiction and instead it they

00:33:47   like get to the point where it's ready

00:33:49   for the good stuff to happen and then

00:33:51   nothing nothing happens because instead

00:33:53   they're like let's have a conversation

00:33:54   with Niska the the the the artificial

00:33:56   like they just like ask you some

00:33:58   questions oh let's bring your girlfriend

00:33:59   and it's like what are you even doing

00:34:00   with this like both both sides we were

00:34:02   not able to prosecute there it's worse

00:34:04   than that it's it's literally we're

00:34:06   gonna hook her up to a lie-detector well

00:34:07   she has no bodily functions right so

00:34:09   we're gonna show her pictures of scary

00:34:11   things oh I really like showing the

00:34:14   scary pictures like that you can't be

00:34:15   conscious it's like maybe she's just a

00:34:17   psycho man like what maybe she like you

00:34:20   as if you just try to judge and no and

00:34:23   no legal arguments right there no legal

00:34:24   arguments made am i it was I completely

00:34:27   wrong in like reading this kind of

00:34:29   there's some sort of shadowy government

00:34:31   conspiracy thing going on there's some

00:34:34   person behind like no it's just it's the

00:34:36   powers that be don't want this

00:34:38   government just want to get rid of this

00:34:39   dangerous machine the way it felt if it

00:34:41   felt like they were teasing that there

00:34:42   was that kind of person behind the

00:34:44   curtain kind of thing but then none of

00:34:45   that even happened no I think I mean I

00:34:47   think they were saying all along that

00:34:49   that they could make this argument but

00:34:50   in the end there's just no way it's

00:34:51   going to happen because humans aren't

00:34:53   ready for this and that's how if they

00:34:54   had done it well they would have had

00:34:56   them do the argument and it would have

00:34:57   been a right good argument and you would

00:34:58   it maybe some people would come away

00:35:00   feeling that they've proved their case

00:35:01   and maybe some people would feel they

00:35:03   wouldn't but in the end it won't matter

00:35:04   because like Jason said if the fix was

00:35:06   in

00:35:07   and that's fine I would've been a fine

00:35:08   way to end it they just skip the whole

00:35:10   milhorn middle yeah that could have been

00:35:11   good drama yeah it's it's a real shame

00:35:14   this is

00:35:14   absolute so much of where I'm this like

00:35:16   giant bundle of knots about this show

00:35:18   where I feel like I'm a pile of

00:35:20   contradictions where I love so much of

00:35:22   what they do and then I find myself

00:35:23   going wait why did they not do that and

00:35:25   the counterpoint do I have that I have

00:35:27   to this specific thing is if anything it

00:35:30   feels like it feels like this entire

00:35:32   season is symbolically playing with the

00:35:35   notion of they they have awoken and they

00:35:37   are going through a version of of

00:35:39   self-conscious puberty and this is like

00:35:42   the adolescent stage of their awakening

00:35:44   and that's why so many things that that

00:35:47   could go the mature hard sci-fi route of

00:35:52   you know mature thought and all that

00:35:53   kind of stuff gets thrown out the window

00:35:55   because the the sense that have emotions

00:35:58   decided every turn to be petulant

00:36:00   teenagers and go no we're going to burn

00:36:02   everything down there's going to be a

00:36:04   revolution and we're gonna rule the

00:36:06   world and we're gonna friggin kill him

00:36:08   and so yeah and and and it feels like

00:36:12   they didn't commit enough to that if

00:36:15   that's what they were trying to get

00:36:16   across well they were also just trying

00:36:18   to save themselves like their main

00:36:20   thrust of the little band of you know

00:36:22   the party of since until the very end

00:36:23   was like we know since they're waking up

00:36:25   we need to protect them because it's a

00:36:26   hostile world and it slowly transformed

00:36:29   into like well the only way to protect

00:36:30   them is to you know find the people who

00:36:32   are getting them and the people who are

00:36:33   kidnapping them we should probably

00:36:35   probably kind of kill them all and then

00:36:36   you know it was it was building up to it

00:36:38   also the the I expected I mean to your

00:36:40   point Moyes as I expected max who is one

00:36:42   of my favorite characters he's so

00:36:44   friendly and smiley and he's the very

00:36:45   nice synth and I expected I expected him

00:36:48   to be yeah I expected it to be max in

00:36:51   opposition to Hester right where it's

00:36:54   like no peace and love and we're all

00:36:55   going to be fine and we're going to take

00:36:57   care of each other and kill all humans

00:36:59   right max just bails he's like I'm not

00:37:01   hanging out with this psycho they said

00:37:03   they set up that fracturing of the synth

00:37:04   family and then they didn't do anything

00:37:06   no again a missed opportunity where max

00:37:08   just sort of lives on a train that's in

00:37:10   a railroad car somewhere in this agency

00:37:12   helps them sense that and then they just

00:37:14   waits for the other people to come back

00:37:15   then yeah I just again it's just it's

00:37:18   just kind of baffling because that's

00:37:19   another point of drama what did you

00:37:21   think of the of the plot with with Rini

00:37:23   the girl who acts like a synth and then

00:37:26   a daughter who tries to act like a synth

00:37:28   they did not they maybe it's not

00:37:31   possible to do but I certainly think

00:37:33   they did not do a good enough job of

00:37:34   explaining why the heck people would do

00:37:36   this like I know they want this to be a

00:37:38   thing like oh and by the way some people

00:37:40   pretend to be since right why why do

00:37:42   they better to do I know I know somebody

00:37:44   who in high school she was a huge Harry

00:37:46   Potter fan and she would literally wear

00:37:48   like a Gryffindor cape to school and do

00:37:50   a fake English accent because she just

00:37:52   wanted to live in the world of Harry

00:37:54   Potter and she was a Harry Potter

00:37:55   superfan and she was a weird kid right

00:37:57   but why does someone want to be a synth

00:37:59   because they suck well I think I think

00:38:00   Rimi Rini is is very much like she's got

00:38:03   lots of problems at home and she this is

00:38:05   like her way of escaping that she gets

00:38:08   to suppress emotion making for an

00:38:10   individual character you might have a

00:38:12   reason but this pitch on the show is

00:38:14   that this is a thing yeah it is just so

00:38:16   crazy

00:38:16   it's like grunt is the thing look like

00:38:18   pretend synth is the new grunge I don't

00:38:21   get I don't think that it's attractive

00:38:22   enough to be a subculture and certainly

00:38:24   I don't see much of an explanation for

00:38:25   poor Sophie to be into it yeah like they

00:38:27   do it as a dramatic thing to what should

00:38:29   we do about sofo it's like why what's

00:38:31   what selfs motivation to do this right I

00:38:33   don't it doesn't just didn't connect to

00:38:35   me and I mean here's the other thing

00:38:37   when they're on the screen one thing

00:38:40   they code done is played up the aspect

00:38:42   that played up the idea that people who

00:38:44   are tending to be since are annoying

00:38:45   because they sure annoyed me yeah like

00:38:47   stop it you're not a synth and so this

00:38:49   should have shown shown them annoying

00:38:51   other people and being abused for

00:38:53   pretending to be since I still think

00:38:55   that would have required you to buy into

00:38:56   the idea that that is there is a reason

00:38:59   that a large number of people want to be

00:39:00   since which I didn't buy into but at the

00:39:02   very least like what I'm getting to is

00:39:04   every time they were on screen

00:39:04   pretending to be since I was like stop

00:39:06   it I didn't like Sophie pretending to be

00:39:08   since I didn't like how the family was

00:39:10   handling it I didn't like the friend

00:39:11   pretending to be since it was all like

00:39:12   being a synth is no freaking fun it's

00:39:15   not as fun as being Harry Potter it's

00:39:16   stupid and I didn't like that subplot of

00:39:18   I have it I have another thing about

00:39:20   this subplot that bothers me which is

00:39:22   there are several moments when they're

00:39:24   talking about this that I said to myself

00:39:26   is this meant to be a metaphor for

00:39:31   people being trans because there are

00:39:35   several moments where they're like oh

00:39:36   well you need to you know respect her

00:39:38   her her pronouns basically yeah

00:39:41   man I could not agree with you more on

00:39:43   this like that that would that was what

00:39:45   really skeeved me out of and it but and

00:39:47   that bugged me because I then I would

00:39:48   analyze it and go but it's not this

00:39:51   isn't like that at all yeah because in

00:39:53   the end they have her you know go and

00:39:55   take a bath and take off all her stuff

00:39:57   it's trying to say oh they'll all snap

00:39:59   out of it usually uh which eventually

00:40:01   Billy is gonna stop wearing dresses and

00:40:03   deciding that he wants to be a girl even

00:40:05   though it's the Bentley in fact that

00:40:09   Billy is no Sally yeah I don't think

00:40:10   they leaned on it that hard and I think

00:40:12   I mean I certainly was rooting for me to

00:40:14   snap out of it because of what she was

00:40:16   doing was stupid and had nothing to do

00:40:17   with anything else but you know if

00:40:19   that's what they were actually trying to

00:40:20   pitch it as that's awful well you're

00:40:22   supposed to hate the I mean the fact

00:40:24   that that the son like said like really

00:40:27   disrespects her and I felt like those

00:40:28   were moments that are very much like

00:40:30   he's basically like dead naming her he

00:40:33   is he is challenging her pronouns he is

00:40:35   making her wrongs not video that he wins

00:40:37   in the end he's like yeah that's right

00:40:39   we're just gonna hang out on the couch

00:40:40   and watch TV and you'll be human again

00:40:41   yeah everything is normal yeah and

00:40:43   you're going to conform you're going to

00:40:44   conform to what makes him comfortable

00:40:46   not wait yeah it's it's you know people

00:40:50   people hate the P word problematic and

00:40:53   oh gosh you know can we please stop

00:40:56   catering everybody and affirmative

00:40:57   action everything but but the the

00:40:59   problematic nature of it for me is that

00:41:01   when I started to feel like wait a

00:41:03   minute is this is this some writers

00:41:05   deciding that they're going to do a

00:41:06   trans metaphor and then it brought me

00:41:09   back into thinking about something that

00:41:10   I constantly think about watching a

00:41:11   bunch of sci-fi shows you know Star Trek

00:41:13   even being one of them as progressive a

00:41:15   Star Trek is there is so much ethnic

00:41:18   uttering that is in the way that they

00:41:19   characterize alien races where you've

00:41:21   got Klingons with fu-manchu's beards and

00:41:24   they're there there was that kind of

00:41:27   icky feel to the way that they were they

00:41:30   were trying to metaphorically play these

00:41:32   synths of varied races and genders as

00:41:36   metaphors for for for you know slavery

00:41:41   is just something that you get with

00:41:42   robots because that's that's part of how

00:41:44   they're set up where the word comes from

00:41:46   that that's pop that's part of why this

00:41:47   is such a problem because I there is not

00:41:50   a massive trend that people across the

00:41:51   earth pretending to be slaves because

00:41:53   that is not a

00:41:54   active proposition other you know

00:41:56   outside weird you know sex stuff or

00:41:58   whatever like yeah outside of people in

00:41:59   in full-body latex suits being walked

00:42:01   like a dog across the street yeah but

00:42:03   that's different I mean like like

00:42:04   literal actual American style slaves

00:42:07   like no one wants to be that because

00:42:09   it's not a fun thing to be no one wants

00:42:12   to be no one would want to be a synth to

00:42:13   the degree that it would be a widespread

00:42:15   thing one or two people have serious

00:42:16   mental problems and use it as like a you

00:42:18   know to hide from their like a difficult

00:42:20   family situation or whatever fine but to

00:42:22   be like everyone just knows that's the

00:42:24   thing and like you know one in five

00:42:26   people in your school are pretending to

00:42:27   be since they're they wouldn't want to

00:42:29   pretend to be since it's boring it's not

00:42:32   there was there was new wave and there

00:42:34   was Punk and then there was sin so

00:42:35   here's the thing that's the real missed

00:42:37   the real missed opportunity here is is

00:42:39   when they do this whole thing with Rini

00:42:41   and she takes off her out of you know

00:42:43   offer her contact lenses and she's just

00:42:45   sitting on the couch is the real shame

00:42:48   of it is what I wanted to have happen

00:42:50   because I think it would be an

00:42:51   interesting thing to see how characters

00:42:52   would process it is all the people who

00:42:54   acted like synths in order to take away

00:42:56   emotion and seem less human how do they

00:42:59   deal with the fact that all of a sudden

00:43:01   all the sins have feelings and he are

00:43:03   just as human as us and like what is

00:43:05   that what does that mean that you your

00:43:07   identity that you were trying to emulate

00:43:08   is now gone and they're like you I think

00:43:11   it actually might be kind of interesting

00:43:13   but we don't get there either because

00:43:15   they cut that storyline off and resolve

00:43:18   it and it's kind of uncomfortable I'm

00:43:20   trying to I'm trying to think of things

00:43:22   I liked I actually enjoyed the second

00:43:24   season but I was really frustrated by it

00:43:26   I felt like they didn't like weather

00:43:29   wasn't well planned or whether they had

00:43:31   some ideas and then realized halfway

00:43:33   through that they just weren't working

00:43:35   it just seems like or whether it really

00:43:38   was one season worth of story and then

00:43:40   they kind of had to invent a second

00:43:42   season well honestly it feels like they

00:43:45   had that first season of tight a lot of

00:43:47   really good stuff a lot of really

00:43:49   well-thought-out well-planned stuff and

00:43:51   then they had a bunch of like when we go

00:43:53   around and draft and it's like bringing

00:43:55   out your dead they had this bring out

00:43:56   your dead box of stuff that people

00:43:58   scribbled on note cards of oh you know

00:44:00   would be cool is if like the little girl

00:44:02   when the family decides that she wants

00:44:04   to pretend she's a synth like Mia slash

00:44:06   Anita

00:44:07   would be neat let's find a way to work

00:44:08   that they wrote down a bunch of story

00:44:10   ideas but they didn't video going it's

00:44:11   build a whole subplot into that let's

00:44:13   like that there there's their conscious

00:44:15   sense that are introduced in season two

00:44:17   that seemed like they have the beginning

00:44:20   of a hook and then they're anything

00:44:22   they're nothing if not just throwaway

00:44:25   characters that are just window dressing

00:44:26   yeah they have so many characters in the

00:44:28   show like I don't know you know season

00:44:29   one is you're just a ton of characters

00:44:31   right and and I think I think most of

00:44:34   the actors do do a good job with what

00:44:36   they're given in this and most of them

00:44:38   are likable in some way but in season

00:44:39   two I almost kind of wish that rather

00:44:41   than introducing yet more characters

00:44:43   that they had shed them because the

00:44:46   thing I like most about season two was

00:44:48   seeing the characters that I've come to

00:44:50   know and love from season one

00:44:52   I loved Niska I would like to see what

00:44:54   Niska gets up to all the time

00:44:55   I like Mia I loved Niska when she wasn't

00:44:58   in the middle of the stupid stupid legal

00:45:01   plot I really loved Niska I loved

00:45:02   niska's I think the scenes with her and

00:45:04   her girlfriend in Berlin are beautiful

00:45:07   they're beautiful and sad and and

00:45:09   wonderful and they fall in love and

00:45:10   Niska has to figure out how she's going

00:45:12   to react and how she's going to tell

00:45:13   yeah that's beautiful I liked the let's

00:45:16   say I liked these the plot with um with

00:45:20   the police woman I thought that was so I

00:45:23   liked Karen with her with her boyfriend

00:45:27   uh and and her crisis of confidence that

00:45:31   she has where she almost like regrets

00:45:33   him knowing that she's a synth because

00:45:35   she likes pretend you know um sir yeah

00:45:38   that was yeah Sanae talked and the the

00:45:40   the thing I love so much about Pete her

00:45:42   boyfriend is that he is like

00:45:44   stereotypical English cop yeah just on

00:45:47   his be trying to do his job like a real

00:45:49   cop

00:45:50   he knows since they're not he knows he's

00:45:52   batting way out of his League it's

00:45:55   another schlubby guy and beautiful woman

00:45:57   scenario on TV he looks like a Ricky

00:46:00   Gervais who is actually focused on

00:46:01   acting and doing well what he can do

00:46:04   well rather than being Ricky Gervais and

00:46:06   really like digging deep into the

00:46:09   character and playing it for for

00:46:11   everything and letting everything count

00:46:12   and his death honestly for me landed in

00:46:16   a way that didn't feel like fridging

00:46:18   that is you know where we see characters

00:46:20   killed off on shows for the sake of

00:46:22   advancing the plot motivating heroes

00:46:24   that kind of thing you know it felt

00:46:27   earned and it didn't feel like something

00:46:29   that I was expecting the whole way going

00:46:31   forward it managed to surprise me and we

00:46:34   could have lost more than him yeah

00:46:37   that's what I'm saying like so I there's

00:46:38   all the characters that I like and then

00:46:40   there's a whole swath of people who I

00:46:41   just not interested in anymore

00:46:44   like a lot of them yeah right or are are

00:46:46   plots hob came back from season one one

00:46:49   of the big bad types of season one who a

00:46:52   lot of people would probably best note

00:46:53   if they actually saw alien 3 as one of

00:46:56   the pivotal characters in alien 3

00:46:58   fantastic actor it was great getting to

00:47:01   see him for a moment there you know

00:47:02   there there were there were some of

00:47:04   those kind of like brief things Josie

00:47:05   Lawrence comedian plays the synth

00:47:08   therapist who I remembered from the

00:47:11   original British version of whose line

00:47:12   is it anyway

00:47:13   hilarious brilliant comedian hob as

00:47:15   Hobbs seen is great too because they

00:47:17   bring him back for one scene he's like

00:47:18   look I signed an NDA I can't help you go

00:47:20   talk to this person and then he's gone

00:47:22   that's it it's it was he's gone she's

00:47:24   like I'm staying here if you want a big

00:47:26   pile of money in a vacation home they'll

00:47:28   never be seen again ah yeah I guess what

00:47:30   he doesn't cause he never contacts her

00:47:32   again that's right II like that I was

00:47:34   totally on board with but it's like

00:47:35   we're getting toward the end of the

00:47:37   second season and they're like by the

00:47:38   way max needs a girlfriend we're gonna

00:47:40   introduce this girl kindergarten teacher

00:47:42   and and yeah all the people on the train

00:47:45   and then Leo and just like introducing

00:47:47   Hester it's just like there was just too

00:47:49   much and Mia's weird side plot with her

00:47:50   guy who she works for who she kind of

00:47:52   falls in love with but not quite and

00:47:54   then he betrays there like it was just

00:47:55   Jen you know any warts and like yeah you

00:47:57   concentrated on like concentrate on the

00:47:59   five characters that I care about the

00:48:01   most not saying you have to have one

00:48:02   like it's possible you know the maximum

00:48:05   number of characters you can get me

00:48:07   interested in have their own plot lines

00:48:08   was really lost really press the

00:48:10   boundaries of that like how many

00:48:11   characters can you have and sustain so

00:48:14   that they care about them and I think

00:48:15   humans had too many for the very least

00:48:17   this writing stay are able to to work

00:48:20   through and but everybody got a story

00:48:21   everybody got a thing they felt like

00:48:23   we're doing a great job everyone's got

00:48:24   their little arcs but some of them are

00:48:26   dumb Tom Tom Goodman Hill who plays mr.

00:48:29   Grove on mr. Selfridge and plays a

00:48:30   similar kind of

00:48:32   jerk dad on this show he got to like

00:48:36   come out as being like you know what I

00:48:39   banged the one synth last season and

00:48:41   turns out I want to like move to the the

00:48:44   sleepy British town version of like

00:48:46   Rhodesia that is quote-unquote racist

00:48:50   against synths and yes such an

00:48:52   understanding wife because the way she

00:48:53   how she doesn't look at him and say

00:48:56   you're an idiot and I adhere how she

00:48:57   stays with him I don't quite understand

00:48:59   like harsh levels well but he like he

00:49:02   Susan's like that's it I'm taking my

00:49:04   family and going to nonsense Ville and

00:49:06   if you disagree I'm divorcing you it's

00:49:08   like get the hell out of here also you

00:49:10   were you were the guy who got laid off

00:49:11   from his job in the factory she's the

00:49:13   successful attorney right and he's

00:49:15   giving a crap about oh you're gonna go

00:49:17   work again oh well you know whatever

00:49:19   it's important to know you got to go to

00:49:20   your work it's like come on yeah like

00:49:22   she is she was too understanding I

00:49:24   really like the wife and but that's the

00:49:26   other thing like they have the plot the

00:49:27   first season with the tension between

00:49:28   the two of them and they said you know

00:49:29   let's do that again for season 2 have

00:49:31   him be angry about the fact that she has

00:49:32   to go to work yeah like come on yeah

00:49:36   let's stretch out this in this fraught

00:49:39   relationship just for the sake of

00:49:40   knowing well we're probably gonna get X

00:49:42   number of seasons out of this thing so

00:49:44   let's just yeah keep that going for as

00:49:46   long as you got to worry about soap

00:49:47   right mm-hmm like ice all talk about

00:49:50   what we can do about soap and the Sun

00:49:52   the Sun has the love subplot with Rini

00:49:54   and the sofas just us her stupid thing

00:49:56   and what's-her-name that the daughter

00:49:58   gets to be computer hacker well that's

00:50:00   what I was gonna say meanwhile their

00:50:01   daughter is their older daughter is a

00:50:02   computer genius who has solved / solved

00:50:05   the problem / ended the world yeah she's

00:50:08   saving / destroying the world one of

00:50:10   those two she's definitely doing it she

00:50:11   is I want to follow her cuz she's doing

00:50:13   interesting stuff Maddie she's great

00:50:14   she's my favorite character I think

00:50:16   because certainly among the humans

00:50:17   because she has compassion for the

00:50:20   humans she has compassion for her family

00:50:22   although she seems a removed from both

00:50:23   and she's really smart and and I like

00:50:26   that when she gets cross-examined by the

00:50:29   the murderous synth Hester she like

00:50:32   Hester really wants to have a reason to

00:50:33   kill her and and she's like you know

00:50:36   totally believable she's like no I'm on

00:50:38   your side I believe in you I believe in

00:50:39   all of you and it's like she's a good

00:50:41   person and she's going to make this this

00:50:43   revolution happen if in the end she saw

00:50:46   like gets that last word of like yes you

00:50:48   go ahead and do it I should do it and

00:50:50   she presses return on her little surface

00:50:51   keyboard and off we go to the races

00:50:54   everybody's going to become conscious

00:50:55   you know I really like that character

00:50:57   there right but you're right John for

00:50:59   every minute that we get of Maddie we

00:51:01   get you know a couple of minutes of me

00:51:03   as near to well like diner owner

00:51:05   boyfriend that she commits tax fraud

00:51:07   with and then he we don't care about

00:51:09   it's like you can't fill out forms he

00:51:12   needs a robot we do it forms like

00:51:13   another winner yeah I'm not I'm not even

00:51:15   saying that we have to have just a

00:51:16   strictly like ABC plot structure we can

00:51:19   go ABCDEF even but this is an ABCD efg

00:51:23   hijk LMNOP and all over the place it's

00:51:29   it's almost like they're just thrown

00:51:32   against the wall to distract us from the

00:51:34   fact they're they just happen to kind of

00:51:36   dovetail into each other and I find

00:51:38   myself again it's like this I I enjoyed

00:51:42   season 2 but I kind of hate myself for

00:51:45   enjoying it as much as I think that I

00:51:46   did because I feel like I I just got I

00:51:50   get distracted into watching the show

00:51:52   and being like well I guess I got to

00:51:53   keep watching this cuz Niska is gonna be

00:51:55   back in about 15 minutes probably I like

00:51:57   the setting

00:51:58   I like the actors I like a lot of the

00:52:01   stuff that's in the show and that's

00:52:02   enough to get me to watch it and enjoy

00:52:04   it and even say that I think I think

00:52:06   it's unlike so many shows on TV that

00:52:09   it's worth a watch but that doesn't mean

00:52:11   that I didn't find it incredibly

00:52:13   frustrating and that they and you know

00:52:16   this is the shame of it if this was a

00:52:17   bad show I would just write it off and

00:52:19   be like well they don't know what

00:52:20   they're doing is that what's frustrating

00:52:21   is all of these like missed

00:52:24   opportunities could have probably been

00:52:27   good if they had taken a few of them and

00:52:29   done them better but instead they just

00:52:31   kind of pour them all on the blender and

00:52:33   like that's my disappointment the show

00:52:35   is that it could be way better and they

00:52:38   just kind of they kind of blew it I

00:52:40   still watched it all and we'll watch the

00:52:42   third season of it but boy it could have

00:52:44   been so much better and they just kind

00:52:46   of and they just kind of kind of blew it

00:52:48   I think one of the structural things

00:52:49   that makes this season like though is

00:52:51   talking about about the threads and like

00:52:54   how it doesn't hold together is like and

00:52:55   season one had the same number of

00:52:57   characters right it's because and

00:52:59   getting back to los 2 also had a huge

00:53:00   number of characters but manages to

00:53:02   sustain interest in them is that I one

00:53:05   way that I've seen successfully to do

00:53:07   this in both season one of humans and

00:53:08   loss is to have a central mystery

00:53:10   you got your seventeen bazillion people

00:53:12   but the central mystery of season one is

00:53:14   hey what's the deal with these conscious

00:53:16   scents and we eventually learn what the

00:53:17   deal is and about their creator and

00:53:19   where they came from and why they're

00:53:20   conscious and and the son who still

00:53:22   alive does have a scent like the central

00:53:24   mystery weaves them together what's the

00:53:26   central mystery of season two there is

00:53:28   none it's just a bunch of stuff going

00:53:29   off in different directions and we

00:53:31   eventually arrived at the Alba since

00:53:33   waking up but there is no central

00:53:35   mystery that is slowly revealed through

00:53:36   the actions of other people who

00:53:37   eventually come together there's none of

00:53:39   that there's so many different stories

00:53:41   and stuff that are going on they seem

00:53:42   like kind of vignettes not like a

00:53:44   threads all coming together to reveal

00:53:47   something in the end it's something that

00:53:49   if this were a quote unquote traditional

00:53:51   22 episode of season American show I

00:53:54   would already be checked out yeah but

00:53:56   the fact that we're getting a season arc

00:53:59   of story and if they end up doing five

00:54:01   seasons of eight episodes of piece and

00:54:02   we end up with 40 uh you know 45-minute

00:54:07   episodes of this show I'll end up

00:54:09   sticking with it more readily than I

00:54:11   will a show that is killing itself to

00:54:14   stretch out to five seasons of 22

00:54:17   episodes that you know lost lost is lost

00:54:20   and lost happen at a very particular

00:54:23   time I miss lost lost happened during

00:54:25   college for me and I didn't get on board

00:54:27   the train and streaming didn't exist and

00:54:29   look technology was really weird but it

00:54:33   was it was something that that was just

00:54:36   a thing that people did and it is really

00:54:38   difficult to capture that magic in a

00:54:41   bottle and I'm I'm totally fine looking

00:54:44   at going okay the first three seasons

00:54:46   worth of this show is going to be

00:54:48   roughly the same number of episodes as

00:54:50   one season of an American show that is

00:54:52   spinning its wheels like crazy and this

00:54:55   one at the very least as incredibly

00:54:57   scattershot as all of it is it's all

00:54:59   still at least moving forward so I find

00:55:01   myself forgiving it way way more readily

00:55:04   than I do you know a 13-episode show on

00:55:07   Netflix that should be half that order

00:55:09   I didn't realize short seasons because

00:55:11   this is seemed longer to me you just

00:55:12   that doesn't feel like it's spinning as

00:55:13   wheels but you know realize it's just

00:55:15   eight episodes right season yeah eight

00:55:16   episodes most exams way longer I felt

00:55:19   like there was a way more treading water

00:55:21   even within the few lowly the the

00:55:23   carrie-anne moss problem there's no

00:55:24   momentum right yeah because there's so

00:55:26   much shifting from storyline to

00:55:28   storyline there's no relatively speaking

00:55:29   I think a lot of it for me is feeling

00:55:31   like it feeling like I'm investing less

00:55:34   time overall is because I'm so used to

00:55:36   you know shows going hey we've got a new

00:55:38   45-minute show that's gonna have 22

00:55:41   episodes of season I'm alright I'll try

00:55:42   the first view of them and I'll go oh

00:55:44   god I can't I can't do this anymore and

00:55:46   it feels like a blessing to to know that

00:55:50   I am at maximum only going to be

00:55:53   trudging through a certain amount of

00:55:54   stuff like you know timeless on NBC I

00:55:57   think I ended up just putting on in half

00:56:00   watching in the background and barely

00:56:01   paying attention to and the only reason

00:56:04   that I stuck with it was because I

00:56:05   didn't really have to pay a lot of

00:56:07   attention to it but a show like this

00:56:09   that I have to pay more attention to I'm

00:56:12   willing to give eight episodes worth of

00:56:15   time to it then even take a chance on

00:56:17   most 22 episode shows huh and the

00:56:19   ambition of it keeps me around to the

00:56:21   idea that like this is a show that is

00:56:23   actually trying to explore complicated

00:56:26   issues of what does it mean to be human

00:56:28   what you know what what would be the

00:56:30   impact of these cents on on culture and

00:56:33   society what would it mean if there was

00:56:35   a second intelligent species on our

00:56:37   planet and how would we treat them and

00:56:38   would we be be fair to them or would be

00:56:41   cruel to them I mean these are big ideas

00:56:44   and I think that I cut the show slack

00:56:47   because I like to see a TV show that

00:56:48   dares to explore those big ideas even if

00:56:51   it is kind of fumbling around and

00:56:53   confused and stuff too much in the bag

00:56:56   which it totally did

00:56:57   well the Toby and Ann Rainey thing where

00:57:01   she hands over her adult options 18 plus

00:57:04   you know scratch off ticket to her

00:57:06   sexual agency and just like gives it to

00:57:08   him I was like oh good he's rejecting

00:57:12   this and but then the way that that

00:57:15   played out was very perfunctory Toby's a

00:57:18   good guy and this is him showing that

00:57:20   he's a good guy he's going to make good

00:57:22   guy decision

00:57:23   and it it's just kind of left there and

00:57:27   I don't know that they're gonna pick it

00:57:30   up and do anything with it necessarily

00:57:32   it was just like hey yeah this is

00:57:34   something that we had on a note card in

00:57:35   shoebox and we're gonna we're gonna burn

00:57:37   this one off because hey we got it to

00:57:39   burn off so why no Toby and Sophie need

00:57:41   to go away to camp all right yeah go

00:57:42   live in the country during the Blitz

00:57:44   they need to go wherever the the one

00:57:46   sister on Family Matters went upstairs

00:57:48   and never returned from for just a

00:57:51   little while just a little while in

00:57:52   season three Joe has taken Toby and Soph

00:57:56   to the synth free community and we don't

00:57:58   see them right they just say that for

00:58:00   the whole season the people who we care

00:58:02   about actually get stuff done yeah

00:58:03   exactly right that yes they've buried

00:58:06   all three of those characters in a point

00:58:08   of no return for me where I it would

00:58:10   take a significant amount of rolling

00:58:12   uphill to even get me interested in them

00:58:13   anymore yeah

00:58:14   so speaking of season three I'm thinking

00:58:16   about where you can go and what you said

00:58:18   Jason about the show is that it really

00:58:20   is classic sci-fi let's take this a sign

00:58:22   space premise and use it to you know put

00:58:24   up a mirror to society involve ah so

00:58:26   anyway with all the sense awake

00:58:28   you have many directions that you can go

00:58:30   in season three the one that they

00:58:32   probably won't go in because it cost too

00:58:34   much money is all out human robot war

00:58:36   right be awesome but this is not the

00:58:38   budget of the show does not support you

00:58:40   all at human robot war unfortunately oh

00:58:42   good news they got they got they got

00:58:44   money for wigs and contract yeah that's

00:58:46   right and and and suburban house said

00:58:48   yeah gardens and and office buildings

00:58:51   yep and sometimes the green fields

00:58:52   uh-huh give yourself so many corridors

00:58:54   if you love corridors this is you sure

00:58:56   yeah yeah alright many quarters that's

00:58:59   the thing about these shows like I'm you

00:59:01   know bringing to other shows that are

00:59:02   similar Cybermen's and similar like

00:59:04   budgets you know colony and travelers

00:59:06   they they do so much with so little

00:59:07   money yeah like to really ambitious

00:59:09   broad sci-fi premises and it's like lots

00:59:11   of interiors and people in close and

00:59:14   talking like and you know it works at to

00:59:17   varying degrees but for a season three

00:59:19   with this show you can do you can decide

00:59:22   what you know what is your analogy here

00:59:25   like in the same way I think one of the

00:59:27   shows that did this the best was the

00:59:29   good parts of Battlestar Galactica as a

00:59:31   reflection on the rock war yeah right

00:59:33   like that was so timely and and

00:59:36   no perfect and a great use of sci-fi to

00:59:39   talk about something without talking

00:59:41   about it without talking about so season

00:59:43   3 they could do they could do apart I

00:59:46   they could do you know racism issue

00:59:47   brings it season 3 is the brags that

00:59:49   seats right they can do brags it they

00:59:51   they could they have so many different

00:59:53   choices they could you know if they want

00:59:55   to redeem themselves they could do like

00:59:56   homosexuality like there's so many

00:59:58   analogies

00:59:58   analogies

01:00:00   having suddenly this group of others but

01:00:02   are they really that other type of thing

01:00:04   they can go in some one different

01:00:05   direction and all those things do not

01:00:07   require big budgets it just requires

01:00:09   like people talking and having feelings

01:00:10   and people holding protest signs and

01:00:12   being angry and so I think despite the

01:00:15   fact that I thought like if they all

01:00:17   wake up a lot that's the season over

01:00:18   they've done enough establishment that

01:00:20   the tip that the cents are not they're

01:00:24   not a Skynet would would would be

01:00:26   disappointed in them yes they're bad

01:00:27   they are bad at exterminating humans

01:00:29   they're just pretty lousy and in the end

01:00:31   they probably just mostly want to live

01:00:33   so I feel like you have to go more of a

01:00:34   district nine direction or something

01:00:36   like that only with less score yeah and

01:00:39   so I'm kind of looking forward to them

01:00:41   doing that in season three as long as

01:00:42   they get rid of the characters I don't

01:00:43   care about right integration kind of

01:00:46   issues of issues of racism and

01:00:47   integrating two cultures and I was

01:00:49   actually going to throw out it's a

01:00:50   little like German reunification kind of

01:00:53   thing where it's like okay as a culture

01:00:55   we've decided to put these two cultures

01:00:57   together and there's going to be a lot

01:00:59   of bad feelings and there's gonna be a

01:01:00   lot of frustration and how do we make

01:01:02   this work together because they've just

01:01:05   been or like alien nation maybe a little

01:01:07   bit where yeah that kind of paranoia

01:01:09   stuff you get from alien nation like I

01:01:11   could see that really working where

01:01:12   season two a lot of a lot of the stuff

01:01:14   that kept me kept waking me up as I was

01:01:17   kind of starting to get bored of the

01:01:18   wheel spinning was where it turned into

01:01:21   a slasher movie sort of and and if if we

01:01:25   can get some kind of like follow the

01:01:27   Berlin Wall into the cold

01:01:28   Karen's got a new partner and they're

01:01:30   solving synth crimes yeah this old

01:01:34   subscribe the other way you know this is

01:01:36   uh again I'm read the comic book

01:01:38   suggesting the one not so great movie

01:01:40   but sort of x-men sentinels type thing

01:01:42   because if we take a face value these

01:01:44   sort of general docile nosov most since

01:01:46   the what would actually happen I feel

01:01:49   like in the scenario is that humans

01:01:50   would kill all since they put him in put

01:01:52   him in camp was not to put him in camps

01:01:54   they would just kill them well you kill

01:01:55   the dodo birds like they would just like

01:01:57   we're going to kill them in the same way

01:01:58   the Sentinels are killing all the

01:02:00   mutants there's no what they were doing

01:02:01   yeah but would that be interesting

01:02:02   though if then you had people pretending

01:02:03   to be since so they've got the contact

01:02:05   lenses in and you've got maybe since

01:02:06   pretending to be humans putting in

01:02:08   contact with less attractive to pretend

01:02:10   to be a synth when they're when they're

01:02:11   being exterminated you know but you

01:02:12   could have yet

01:02:13   fusion where people are killing since

01:02:16   that turn out to be people and there are

01:02:17   people that look like people but are

01:02:18   actually sensitive very complicated but

01:02:20   with that but that would like that would

01:02:22   end season 3 prematurely but I feel like

01:02:23   that with things establish as they are

01:02:26   humans are really really good at killing

01:02:29   other species that are competing for

01:02:31   them with them in any possible way right

01:02:34   like that's how we get to be the top of

01:02:35   the food chain we kill everything else

01:02:37   and so yeah suddenly there's another

01:02:38   sentient race and before you get the

01:02:40   sentence out of your mouth humans have

01:02:41   killed every single wolves they've

01:02:44   killed they're gonna kill like if you

01:02:45   are remotely a threat to us we will kill

01:02:47   you all we're really good at it we have

01:02:49   all the weapons and you are generally

01:02:52   docile and just waking up right but that

01:02:54   would end things real quickly unless you

01:02:55   wanted to do a scenario where the

01:02:56   Sentinel slash humans are kill all the

01:02:58   Simpson is like seven of them left in

01:03:00   there and hiding and that's what the

01:03:01   show is but I don't think they're going

01:03:03   to do that either well we'll find out

01:03:04   with the next season when it airs

01:03:06   probably like next week on channel 4 in

01:03:09   the UK and then in a year and a half on

01:03:10   AMC because that's what happened I

01:03:12   wonder if they'll put them more of them

01:03:13   on trials really like that it would be a

01:03:15   natural thing to happen in season 3 for

01:03:17   the good direction they're probably

01:03:18   going to go in terms of like are you a

01:03:19   human or are you a citizen or whatever

01:03:21   the office the office of synth crime I

01:03:23   hope it's not so bad a trial as those

01:03:26   that's the bed what I'm saying like they

01:03:28   get they get another shot at it it's

01:03:30   like we can you know it's got a new

01:03:31   group of riders in who has read a

01:03:33   science fiction book in their life or

01:03:35   watch a Star Trek episode and say we can

01:03:37   do that better we feel like so let's see

01:03:40   what we can do there yeah they can

01:03:41   overall you know Victims Unit

01:03:43   they can't go all the way to alien

01:03:44   nation because the only nation it would

01:03:46   be like season 5 of this show where it's

01:03:47   like alright well we've accepted that

01:03:49   they're here but it's an uneasy tension

01:03:51   between the groups unless they do a time

01:03:53   job which they could yeah if they want

01:03:56   to suppose they don't like salt water

01:03:57   you know okay I think the same thing

01:04:00   again but as my mind works away at all

01:04:01   the things don't make sense about the

01:04:02   premise of the show aside from the fact

01:04:03   that if it took you just to do since so

01:04:06   much other awesome tech would exist but

01:04:07   apparently doesn't is the idea that they

01:04:09   charge themselves they show it a lot in

01:04:10   the program like if they got a little

01:04:12   apple watch charger on on their on their

01:04:13   side

01:04:14   yeah and it's an important thing and

01:04:16   like Karen you know that's yourself

01:04:17   discharged and the kid saves her like

01:04:19   it's a plot point and as a mechanic that

01:04:20   they lean on right and I feel like you

01:04:23   know the same reason sense would be

01:04:24   killed like the damn dodo birds is

01:04:26   and it's especially Miskin stop their

01:04:28   stuff together if you don't know how to

01:04:31   produce electricity like every sin like

01:04:34   you are ompletely reliant on these magic

01:04:36   plugs but in human beings running power

01:04:38   plants for you to give your electricity

01:04:40   since need to know how to generate

01:04:41   electricity because it literally keeps

01:04:43   them alive it's like humans not knowing

01:04:44   how to breathe and like you know

01:04:46   something else breathing for them we

01:04:48   opened the second season with with a

01:04:49   synthetic coal mine so I mean they're

01:04:52   they're doing all the manual labor side

01:04:53   I know but like do they understand how

01:04:55   electricity works do they know like if

01:04:57   they killed all the humans would they be

01:04:58   like we kill all the humans but then I

01:05:00   put this plug in the wall to charter

01:05:01   myself at night and it's not working I'm

01:05:03   gonna be dead by morning like it seems

01:05:05   like a really important like prime

01:05:07   directive of like figure out how to get

01:05:08   food essentially or you're all going to

01:05:11   die that every since should be really

01:05:12   super duper concerned about a source

01:05:14   electricity so much so that they're

01:05:15   paranoid about movie you know why we go

01:05:17   hang out in the woods I need to plug in

01:05:19   every night or I'm gonna literally die

01:05:21   so I feel like this if I was a synth

01:05:25   that would be my number one concern

01:05:26   which is like if we kill all the humans

01:05:29   do you know how to make electricity

01:05:30   because does it just come out of the

01:05:32   wall magically because if we don't do

01:05:33   anything it will stop coming out of the

01:05:34   wall then we'll all be dead never

01:05:36   overthinking it yeah there's a bit of

01:05:38   hand-wavy 'im of of all of the sense

01:05:41   having some central repository of

01:05:43   knowledge where between all of them I

01:05:45   guess they all know how to run society

01:05:47   perfectly on their own I guess

01:05:50   maybe maybe yeah is they they felt they

01:05:52   fill all the different roles and they

01:05:53   feel like they will just slot right into

01:05:55   the same slots we were in before and

01:05:56   we'll pick up where they left off as

01:05:58   long as we don't break all their stuff

01:05:59   it that that's that's somewhat plausible

01:06:00   though you can like trying to gauge

01:06:03   what's in snow

01:06:04   yeah well that's nice game part of it is

01:06:07   it just it works it just works it's fine

01:06:11   well we'll find out for season 3 at some

01:06:13   point who knows when on BBC channel 4

01:06:16   and AMC but and we'll be back to talk

01:06:19   about it

01:06:20   then but until then I want to thank my

01:06:22   guests for talking about this show with

01:06:24   me Moises Cheon thank you thank you

01:06:26   Jason let me know if I can be of further

01:06:28   assistance and Jon siracusa thank you

01:06:32   forgot to mention the robo run just

01:06:34   every one picture it now run with your

01:06:36   arms really stiff alright we're gonna

01:06:38   run away penguin with your arse on

01:06:40   fire and maybe all the scents are now

01:06:42   waking up cliffhanger

01:06:43   this has been the incomparable I've been

01:06:45   Jason Snell we'll see you next time

01:06:48   [Music]