Roderick on the Line

Ep. 244: "Super Cartoid"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:02   brought to you by Casper Casper is an [TS]

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00:00:12   slash supertrain hello hi John [TS]

00:00:21   hi Merlin how's it going good how are [TS]

00:00:25   you I'm doing great [TS]

00:00:27   wow you do you sound great [TS]

00:00:30   yes I've decided that I'm Pepe today or [TS]

00:00:34   permanently [TS]

00:00:35   oh I don't know you know just try to [TS]

00:00:37   look on the bright side of life you [TS]

00:00:38   don't know saying yeah I mean that [TS]

00:00:40   lasted for a minute or two there yep yep [TS]

00:00:43   you just keep looking at the chimneys [TS]

00:00:44   you know I'm saying [TS]

00:00:45   looking at the chimney that's what they [TS]

00:00:47   say they say look at the chimneys when [TS]

00:00:48   you're walking around [TS]

00:00:49   most people will like stare at the [TS]

00:00:51   ground or stare at the middle-distance [TS]

00:00:52   try to remember to look up look at the [TS]

00:00:54   chimneys it will look you look at the [TS]

00:00:57   chimneys it'll elevate your mood yeah [TS]

00:00:59   you'll see the chimbley sleeps bear oh [TS]

00:01:03   boy oh yeah look at the chimneys I don't [TS]

00:01:09   know it's like diets [TS]

00:01:10   who knows if those things actually work [TS]

00:01:12   looking at the chimneys looking at the [TS]

00:01:14   chimneys but if you tell yourself it [TS]

00:01:15   works it might work yeah smile when you [TS]

00:01:18   sing that's right and smile when you [TS]

00:01:20   talking to the phone not as good as a [TS]

00:01:22   wink to a blind bat is that right smile [TS]

00:01:25   when you're talking to the phone I guess [TS]

00:01:26   so that's my mom I try that said that [TS]

00:01:29   she's in sales she learned that when [TS]

00:01:31   you're talking to someone smile yeah how [TS]

00:01:33   does this is this podcast sound better [TS]

00:01:35   what - deranged clap let's try and set [TS]

00:01:38   up them it sounds pretty good kind of [TS]

00:01:41   weird if we could do the whole show like [TS]

00:01:43   this that we could I bet from now on if [TS]

00:01:45   we just smiled through the whole show [TS]

00:01:47   it'd be a much more we said scared [TS]

00:01:49   we sound very scared have you noticed [TS]

00:01:53   that I mention this before but if you [TS]

00:01:57   listen to a sportscaster talking about [TS]

00:02:01   sports yeah the sound that they make is [TS]

00:02:06   the same exact sound as if you were [TS]

00:02:09   yelling at somebody because you're [TS]

00:02:11   really mad at [TS]

00:02:11   anything is heavily compressed probably [TS]

00:02:14   no no I mean I don't mean the asana [TS]

00:02:16   thing they're normal they're normal [TS]

00:02:18   voice it sounds like they're like [TS]

00:02:20   yelling somebody in traffic or something [TS]

00:02:21   yeah exactly like here he comes that is [TS]

00:02:23   that you know it's just like it's uh [TS]

00:02:25   it's the same it evokes the same that is [TS]

00:02:28   so interesting like if you like you know [TS]

00:02:32   you think about like when you listen to [TS]

00:02:33   like people calling like South American [TS]

00:02:35   as they say football games you can get [TS]

00:02:38   that vibe clearer if you're not a native [TS]

00:02:40   speaker because the tone just sounds so [TS]

00:02:42   manic oh yeah they're really upset I'm [TS]

00:02:45   interested in in the radio host Alex [TS]

00:02:49   Jones I'm very interested in him and so [TS]

00:02:52   well I don't want to get too far into it [TS]

00:02:54   I've talked about this a lot of places a [TS]

00:02:56   lot of times very interested in Alex [TS]

00:02:57   Jones but you know I turned to you as an [TS]

00:03:01   industry expert like I've heard him when [TS]

00:03:04   he just talks and yells he has a very [TS]

00:03:06   low and very kind of grindy voice in [TS]

00:03:10   real life but but when they record him [TS]

00:03:13   for his show for his YouTube stuff for [TS]

00:03:16   his radio show they do something I think [TS]

00:03:19   they do something to his voice I think [TS]

00:03:21   it's something they do to a lot of talk [TS]

00:03:22   voices and I always it I'm right it [TS]

00:03:24   sounds bigger it sounds growler it [TS]

00:03:27   sounds more evenly growly do you know [TS]

00:03:30   saying is that is that quality of the [TS]

00:03:32   microphone do you think it's compression [TS]

00:03:33   like would aural enhancement like what [TS]

00:03:36   do you do to make some noise out like [TS]

00:03:38   this like not how we're talking it's [TS]

00:03:41   mega compressed mm-hmm um you know [TS]

00:03:45   because it's compressed it's compressed [TS]

00:03:48   at the source and it's compressed up the [TS]

00:03:50   chain and then it's you know it's got [TS]

00:03:52   that crazy radio compression on it too [TS]

00:03:55   okay when I think of like AM radio [TS]

00:03:58   especially and that the particular kind [TS]

00:04:01   of sound somebody on like talk radio he [TS]

00:04:03   that's mostly compression well so what's [TS]

00:04:06   funny about that compression is I was [TS]

00:04:09   having a very very interesting [TS]

00:04:10   conversation with the radio DJ not very [TS]

00:04:12   long ago a professional professional was [TS]

00:04:15   somewhat better KEXP John well he was [TS]

00:04:19   describing an experience of going to kxb [TS]

00:04:22   he is himself not a KEXP DJ [TS]

00:04:25   but but he was going there to do an [TS]

00:04:30   interview and talk to some KEXP [TS]

00:04:33   people you know talk to talk to the [TS]

00:04:35   professional KEXP DJ's and he got there [TS]

00:04:39   and he said that little trick of the [TS]

00:04:43   trade that the KEXP DJ who is a who's [TS]

00:04:48   fairly famous person in these parts at [TS]

00:04:51   least not your morning guy well you know [TS]

00:04:56   let's just say for the sake of yeah for [TS]

00:05:00   the sake of argument let's just say it's [TS]

00:05:01   a morning guy give some legal reason [TS]

00:05:04   that you're being so desi about who [TS]

00:05:05   these people are [TS]

00:05:06   well you know small town here huh and [TS]

00:05:10   people get really you know that he's [TS]

00:05:12   always brought times John Frye you know [TS]

00:05:15   you want to be careful who you tell [TS]

00:05:18   people you know yeah yeah so Amos st [TS]

00:05:21   setup so here he is and he's doing this [TS]

00:05:23   interview with the guy and he [TS]

00:05:24   immediately recognizes that he's got the [TS]

00:05:29   he's got the compression on on their [TS]

00:05:32   interview like it's super slammed and [TS]

00:05:34   he's got it so that his voice the the [TS]

00:05:38   host is just always going to be a little [TS]

00:05:42   bit louder a little bit like better then [TS]

00:05:45   the guest he gets the Alpha setting the [TS]

00:05:48   the gorilla mindset setting yeah but but [TS]

00:05:51   my my my um my companion in this [TS]

00:05:57   conversation says he recognized the [TS]

00:05:59   compression was so crazy that he just [TS]

00:06:02   started talking really quietly and the [TS]

00:06:05   compressor then because he was talking [TS]

00:06:08   so quietly the compressor would would [TS]

00:06:11   super super grab on to his voice and and [TS]

00:06:16   it made him the louder of the two [TS]

00:06:18   because he was he was working with the [TS]

00:06:21   be understood that the compressor was [TS]

00:06:23   set in such a way that the more quietly [TS]

00:06:26   you spoke the more the compressor would [TS]

00:06:28   work and and it was it was actually [TS]

00:06:31   making his voice appear louder by virtue [TS]

00:06:34   of just talking more and more [TS]

00:06:36   quietly why so he was he was he was like [TS]

00:06:39   gaming this guy's compressor settings in [TS]

00:06:44   the interview and and you could you buy [TS]

00:06:49   the story you could tell that that the [TS]

00:06:52   other DJ recognized what he was doing [TS]

00:06:55   but you know is some somewhat powerless [TS]

00:06:57   because this is his tone missus his [TS]

00:07:00   setting this is his tone he can't start [TS]

00:07:04   to get weird and tell you going I can [TS]

00:07:06   all get all like uh AOR yeah he had a [TS]

00:07:12   mage a he had to maintain his tone his [TS]

00:07:15   vocal sciences that's his local brand so [TS]

00:07:17   this other you know this other character [TS]

00:07:19   was just like yeah that's very [TS]

00:07:21   interesting good question and it was [TS]

00:07:23   like really you know his voice was [TS]

00:07:25   really I think filling up people's ear [TS]

00:07:27   ear holes so Alex Jones may in fact not [TS]

00:07:34   be making that much noise he's got the [TS]

00:07:38   gravel and his voice he's talking yeah [TS]

00:07:40   I'm a nice guy but he's but he's maybe [TS]

00:07:44   not making that much volume it might be [TS]

00:07:47   that that his compressors are doing all [TS]

00:07:49   the work cuz if you talked like that all [TS]

00:07:51   the time you would be blowing your voice [TS]

00:07:53   look like you could say I remember [TS]

00:07:54   hearing a thing on public radio where I [TS]

00:07:56   hear about these things about I believe [TS]

00:07:57   you can take a class to learn how to do [TS]

00:08:02   like shredding metal vocals in a way [TS]

00:08:05   that doesn't wreck your voice apparently [TS]

00:08:07   there's a method for doing that if you [TS]

00:08:08   do it the way it sounds like you should [TS]

00:08:10   do it you'll just you'll shred your [TS]

00:08:11   voice how did Bobcat Goldthwait do that [TS]

00:08:15   all those years oh I don't know I think [TS]

00:08:17   he's just a little broken inside he's uh [TS]

00:08:20   but you know that you're right this part [TS]

00:08:22   of the brand so it's probably also [TS]

00:08:23   fairly heavily gated so every word but [TS]

00:08:27   like with a fast gait like a strong but [TS]

00:08:29   fast gait right mm-hmm strong Bathgate [TS]

00:08:32   I'm this more than really understand is [TS]

00:08:35   a great TV show Bathgate also didn't [TS]

00:08:38   they do that song daenam in linen linen [TS]

00:08:40   a nail down fast course fascinate [TS]

00:08:43   clothes you will what yeah I'm still [TS]

00:08:49   smiling [TS]

00:08:50   uh well the you know uh the big big [TS]

00:08:54   reveal for us in the in the Rock and [TS]

00:08:56   Roll scene was realizing that Chris [TS]

00:08:57   Cornell made almost no sound at all huh [TS]

00:09:00   Chris Cornell of Soundgarden rumor was [TS]

00:09:04   that he earned through monitor guys [TS]

00:09:09   because he had this sort of him that [TS]

00:09:12   this impossible situation which was he's [TS]

00:09:15   fronting this massive band and if you [TS]

00:09:17   listen to the records you know is [TS]

00:09:29   fucking killing it but in fact he's [TS]

00:09:33   making like he's moving very very little [TS]

00:09:36   air and he's just like oh yeah what now [TS]

00:09:39   and he figures it out oh that wrote that [TS]

00:09:42   means that in the midst of all of that [TS]

00:09:45   very very loud noise they've got to be [TS]

00:09:49   able to bring up his vocals without [TS]

00:09:50   causing feedback correct [TS]

00:09:52   that sounds very challenging correct [TS]

00:09:55   they've got to be able to bring up his [TS]

00:09:57   vocals in the monitors right like it at [TS]

00:09:59   the front of the house trigger ly if [TS]

00:10:02   you're playing super big rooms you know [TS]

00:10:04   you've got a lot of you can do a lot up [TS]

00:10:07   there right to make everything sound [TS]

00:10:09   right if you're good at at front of [TS]

00:10:12   house but you know that I think [TS]

00:10:13   especially before in-ear monitors your [TS]

00:10:17   monitor guys just like look man I'm [TS]

00:10:19   giving you all that I can and he's that [TS]

00:10:21   play he's up there saying I can't hear [TS]

00:10:23   myself Oh fine fine more uh-huh pretty [TS]

00:10:29   crazy but but that may have been true of [TS]

00:10:32   that may actually be true this and I've [TS]

00:10:35   wondered this for a long time it may in [TS]

00:10:37   some or another way be true of all those [TS]

00:10:40   guys [TS]

00:10:40   maybe Kurt Cobain wasn't seeing that [TS]

00:10:42   loud maybe none of them sing that loud [TS]

00:10:44   maybe I'm an idiot because I didn't [TS]

00:10:47   understand now I didn't understand how [TS]

00:10:49   microphones work [TS]

00:10:51   Django so working harder not smarter [TS]

00:10:53   that's exactly what what I terrified him [TS]

00:10:56   like I got up there when I first started [TS]

00:10:58   playing rock music and I thought that's [TS]

00:11:00   what it sounded like and [TS]

00:11:01   I was capable of making that much noise [TS]

00:11:03   what I was capable of making as much [TS]

00:11:06   noise as it sounded like and so I would [TS]

00:11:08   just scream into these microphones I [TS]

00:11:11   didn't need to I could have just been [TS]

00:11:13   like lot of data data data instead of [TS]

00:11:16   you know I was really going for it at [TS]

00:11:20   the end of a show I lay down on the [TS]

00:11:22   floor panting and did when I was 20 [TS]

00:11:26   uh-huh did you have to I could have just [TS]

00:11:28   been using the microphone I could have [TS]

00:11:30   just turned up the knob just use the mic [TS]

00:11:32   but this isn't something we revisited [TS]

00:11:34   several times in the past but the [TS]

00:11:37   especially when you're when you're [TS]

00:11:39   touring and let's say you're in Europe [TS]

00:11:41   or you know really anywhere it's really [TS]

00:11:44   it's a different night every night in [TS]

00:11:46   terms of the setup and the sound you [TS]

00:11:48   know what all your stuff should sound [TS]

00:11:49   like but you know it could be you just [TS]

00:11:51   get the you know the sound man is too [TS]

00:11:55   high and the bartender has to run sound [TS]

00:11:57   or something right where you have to be [TS]

00:11:59   don't you have to be very self [TS]

00:12:01   sufficient to like where you could [TS]

00:12:04   almost do without monitors if you had to [TS]

00:12:06   I mean in the way that you prepare you [TS]

00:12:07   can't assume that you're going to get [TS]

00:12:09   those Radiohead ear buds and stuff like [TS]

00:12:11   that yeah but you I mean you work - I [TS]

00:12:16   think what you you you work with in the [TS]

00:12:20   house that you built in your own mind so [TS]

00:12:23   if if if I had started out singing you [TS]

00:12:26   know like well I just have these words [TS]

00:12:29   to sing at this volume I would I would I [TS]

00:12:32   would be adjusted intended by your ex [TS]

00:12:35   you're so good thank you I just be [TS]

00:12:38   sitting on the couch while you're [TS]

00:12:39   recording right you read out you write a [TS]

00:12:40   hit song it's just a listen I am looking [TS]

00:12:43   out the door and I can see the outside [TS]

00:12:46   crying chorus door door door [TS]

00:12:54   you see spoon means different things [TS]

00:12:58   it's different oh yeah right geez oh [TS]

00:13:02   that's what I kept saying to people [TS]

00:13:05   didn't they're not really listening [TS]

00:13:07   teaspoon every time I say teaspoon it [TS]

00:13:10   means a different things it's different [TS]

00:13:11   thing yes it's your fault that you don't [TS]

00:13:13   understand that there's five teaspoon [TS]

00:13:15   and their five to fucking shame on them [TS]

00:13:18   you have to explain your teaspoons to [TS]

00:13:20   anybody boo yeah so he's like oh that [TS]

00:13:22   Lulu says teaspoon no it says five [TS]

00:13:25   different things about teaspoon teaspoon [TS]

00:13:28   maybe wasn't down with the heist piece [TS]

00:13:31   boom baby wasn't down with the heist [TS]

00:13:32   just trying to do what I thought was [TS]

00:13:34   right baby wasn't dead was down with it [TS]

00:13:36   she was not down was not down with it I [TS]

00:13:40   was you know using street vernacular [TS]

00:13:43   there how that's true uh but you know I [TS]

00:13:46   can't go back I can't go back and do [TS]

00:13:48   that I can about you've already built in [TS]

00:13:50   your mind and like now that mortgage is [TS]

00:13:52   paid off whether you like it or not [TS]

00:13:53   let's be honest you live in your house [TS]

00:13:55   mine yes yes yes all right as long as [TS]

00:13:59   we're talking tech and this is where [TS]

00:14:00   we're really gonna lose a lot of people [TS]

00:14:02   yeah you know I don't know if you've [TS]

00:14:04   ever noticed when we're recording you [TS]

00:14:06   have better ears than I I don't know if [TS]

00:14:07   you've ever noticed but sometimes when [TS]

00:14:09   we're recording you may occasionally [TS]

00:14:13   hear the sound of a streetcar a going by [TS]

00:14:16   yeah yeah probably I don't notice it if [TS]

00:14:18   you go back and listen you'll probably [TS]

00:14:19   you've heard it probably a couple times [TS]

00:14:20   ding ding okay here's my question to you [TS]

00:14:24   there's only a minimum of things that I [TS]

00:14:26   can do with damping there are some [TS]

00:14:28   things I could do but that is is it's a [TS]

00:14:30   multi-ton train here comes one right now [TS]

00:14:34   rattling the ground and shaking where I [TS]

00:14:36   am let's set aside that I made a [TS]

00:14:38   terrible decision to be next to a [TS]

00:14:39   streetcar line - oh the corner goes you [TS]

00:14:43   might know you probably didn't hear it [TS]

00:14:45   but that was a train that just went by [TS]

00:14:46   yeah and would I be well-served to get [TS]

00:14:50   I'm just these are words I've read on [TS]

00:14:51   the internet and never said out loud [TS]

00:14:52   what I be well-served to get a car toy [TS]

00:14:55   or supercar toyed microphone would that [TS]

00:14:58   help minimize the amount of occasional [TS]

00:15:01   streetcar sound that people hear on this [TS]

00:15:02   program [TS]

00:15:03   hmm I'm currently using a shure uh i [TS]

00:15:07   think it's an 87 a beta 87 a is what i [TS]

00:15:11   use right that's a that's a nice [TS]

00:15:12   microphone and you you are on a classic [TS]

00:15:15   SMB right no right now I'm on my own you [TS]

00:15:19   dingus my B caster remote microphone [TS]

00:15:22   that's the one you can put in your tummy [TS]

00:15:24   when you talk right that's right that's [TS]

00:15:25   right [TS]

00:15:26   currently I [TS]

00:15:27   a staged on a book a giant coffee table [TS]

00:15:31   book about the history of the Brooks [TS]

00:15:32   Brothers company the people who make [TS]

00:15:35   suits yes huh [TS]

00:15:38   now the people that make suits you know [TS]

00:15:40   it's a venerable company we it's that's [TS]

00:15:42   one of those terms that we use when we [TS]

00:15:44   don't know what else to say its [TS]

00:15:45   venerable and this different Bobbie [TS]

00:15:48   Brooks like in the John Cougar song it's [TS]

00:15:51   different yeah you know blame Bobby [TS]

00:15:52   Brooks let him do what he pleased uh [TS]

00:15:56   that must be some kind of short short Oh [TS]

00:15:58   Bobbie Brooks okay or busy ISM yeah [TS]

00:16:03   maybe it's a maybe it's a saddle shoe or [TS]

00:16:05   something okay sorry I've got a Midwest [TS]

00:16:08   thing figures in one of the little text [TS]

00:16:13   uh doesn't matter talking with some [TS]

00:16:14   other people who do these things they [TS]

00:16:15   were talking about the need to do [TS]

00:16:16   interviews yeah um and being in a an [TS]

00:16:20   environment where picked up lots of [TS]

00:16:22   background sound and one suggestion was [TS]

00:16:23   to get something called car toy tour [TS]

00:16:25   super car toy now is that a super tight [TS]

00:16:27   grouping of where that it will pick up [TS]

00:16:29   the sound is that what that means a [TS]

00:16:30   super tight car toy is you're saying is [TS]

00:16:34   a car toys oh it's a I think it's I'm [TS]

00:16:36   gonna look it up I think it's a kind of [TS]

00:16:37   car toy super yeah car toy boy see my [TS]

00:16:40   pretty further okay it could be hyper [TS]

00:16:43   car toys a car - car - what the what [TS]

00:16:47   they're talking about is car totality Oh [TS]

00:16:49   car card cardioid cardioid cardioid is [TS]

00:16:53   part of the body part okay so so what [TS]

00:16:56   will edit that out party oh yeah [TS]

00:16:58   cardioid is an artery okay so I should [TS]

00:17:00   not get one that has a narrow arteries [TS]

00:17:02   that would not be good for me as a man [TS]

00:17:04   of my age no I think you're gonna want I [TS]

00:17:07   think you're gonna want one with this [TS]

00:17:08   big car toyed artery as you dare to put [TS]

00:17:11   a stent in my mic yeah yeah the thing [TS]

00:17:14   now so in terms of your in terms of your [TS]

00:17:18   like your Carty ID microphones you can [TS]

00:17:26   you can adjust that on a lot of [TS]

00:17:29   microphones the one that you have right [TS]

00:17:31   now you cannot the the the sure the the [TS]

00:17:34   big dildo one that everybody likes the [TS]

00:17:36   one you like for singing that what is [TS]

00:17:37   that SMB so what's called that's some [TS]

00:17:39   seven [TS]

00:17:40   seven that one you get little clickers [TS]

00:17:43   on the bottom right yeah you can you can [TS]

00:17:47   adjust I mean a lot of microphones like [TS]

00:17:48   the one that I'm I'm talking into right [TS]

00:17:50   now um has has settings it doesn't it it [TS]

00:17:55   doesn't it doesn't actually say cardioid [TS]

00:17:58   but it does say like you've got your get [TS]

00:18:00   your mono and then you can switch it to [TS]

00:18:02   your stereo really and key do the [TS]

00:18:04   roll-off thingy the roller thingy isn't [TS]

00:18:09   their thing yet on the bottom of the of [TS]

00:18:11   the sure there's a little wave I don't [TS]

00:18:13   know what it does but if you get [TS]

00:18:14   yourself a little a little tiny like [TS]

00:18:16   eyeglasses screwdriver you can puck [TS]

00:18:17   scoot that over and that doesn't that [TS]

00:18:19   change your amount of base and whatnot [TS]

00:18:21   yeah you can you so there are things [TS]

00:18:23   called high-pass filters and they're [TS]

00:18:26   things called low-pass filters and just [TS]

00:18:28   as they sound if you put a high-pass [TS]

00:18:30   filter on something it lets the high [TS]

00:18:32   sounds pass and does not let the low [TS]

00:18:35   sounds through it will it'll roll the [TS]

00:18:37   low off because there's things in in in [TS]

00:18:41   audio there are at the low end and at [TS]

00:18:46   the high end there are sounds that [TS]

00:18:49   although you can't hear them let's say [TS]

00:18:53   you can't hear them they can take up a [TS]

00:18:59   lot of space in your mind house hmm [TS]

00:19:04   so interesting there's all this low-end [TS]

00:19:08   information that can get put into a [TS]

00:19:12   recording that I mean there's certainly [TS]

00:19:15   there's a lot of it that you can hear [TS]

00:19:17   but there's also a lot of it that maybe [TS]

00:19:19   you can't hear but when you take it away [TS]

00:19:22   you can hear the absence of all this [TS]

00:19:25   garbage you know like it it's not it's [TS]

00:19:29   it's it's sonic information that is [TS]

00:19:31   below the level of like a recognizable [TS]

00:19:35   note interesting so it's not going to be [TS]

00:19:38   jamming up the signal with something [TS]

00:19:40   that doesn't need to be there yeah you [TS]

00:19:42   cut it out then you get and yen you you [TS]

00:19:46   cut it out up to the level that you're [TS]

00:19:47   getting like oh that's a note that [TS]

00:19:50   belongs there or like in a kick drum [TS]

00:19:52   you know you you don't want you don't [TS]

00:19:54   want unlimited low-end [TS]

00:19:56   because it goes down there and it [TS]

00:19:58   collects in the corners and it's full of [TS]

00:20:01   dust and skin flakes oh you have to [TS]

00:20:04   probably like drain it or get like it's [TS]

00:20:07   a detail it like you get a q-tip and get [TS]

00:20:09   all that stand out of there it's it's [TS]

00:20:11   all it's all down there and it's going a [TS]

00:20:13   little lower and it just adds garbage to [TS]

00:20:16   your sound and it's true in our voices [TS]

00:20:19   right if you have a double a double kick [TS]

00:20:21   drum you get but I imagine at least [TS]

00:20:22   twice as much you get it's three times [TS]

00:20:24   as much but it's an additive quality [TS]

00:20:26   it's a logarithmic curve that's science [TS]

00:20:29   okay [TS]

00:20:29   okay and at the top-end it's also true [TS]

00:20:32   that way way up high again not stuff [TS]

00:20:36   that you maybe necessarily can actually [TS]

00:20:39   hear like pinpoint and say like I hear [TS]

00:20:42   that but way up there there's all this [TS]

00:20:46   way way up at the top that is also [TS]

00:20:50   clouding your sound and and and causing [TS]

00:20:54   you disarmed me and I think I think the [TS]

00:20:58   way it's described is that that stuff [TS]

00:21:00   will harmonically resonate with things [TS]

00:21:03   that you can hear it affects the sound [TS]

00:21:06   of the things that you that are audible [TS]

00:21:09   to you because sound interacts with [TS]

00:21:12   these with itself right and so high-pass [TS]

00:21:16   filters and low-pass filters you put on [TS]

00:21:18   in order to kind of collect this the [TS]

00:21:22   information that you want which is here [TS]

00:21:24   in this area where we can hear but you [TS]

00:21:27   can add weird top-end [TS]

00:21:29   to things to make the make it sound [TS]

00:21:31   brighter or make it feel like the roof [TS]

00:21:34   is taller there's all its sound is this [TS]

00:21:36   crazy thing where you can you can make [TS]

00:21:40   the room sound like it's a different [TS]

00:21:42   room by virtue of how you how much of [TS]

00:21:45   this strange top-end that you put in it [TS]

00:21:48   that you that you're not actually [TS]

00:21:50   consciously here it's such a it's such a [TS]

00:21:52   dark art I mean I guess this is really [TS]

00:21:55   obviously somebody who's done this for a [TS]

00:21:56   living and you know I've done some of [TS]

00:21:57   this not so much for a living but like [TS]

00:21:59   she's amazing how many factors are [TS]

00:22:01   involved I watched a pretty interesting [TS]

00:22:02   YouTube video the other night does just [TS]

00:22:04   in passing [TS]

00:22:05   that was about this guy in I want to say [TS]

00:22:08   England who has gone to great time [TS]

00:22:12   expense to essentially recreate every [TS]

00:22:16   aspect conceivable a 1950s Sun studio [TS]

00:22:19   type setup and it was and he just even [TS]

00:22:23   as an amateur it was fascinating to [TS]

00:22:24   watch I'll find the link for you but [TS]

00:22:25   basically he's this guy who wanted to [TS]

00:22:27   say say like he's he's try this is his [TS]

00:22:29   you know his differentiating factor is [TS]

00:22:31   that he has like a legit like operating [TS]

00:22:34   50s it's just all the whole stack is all [TS]

00:22:36   like you know no later than the 50s [TS]

00:22:38   technology and what the experiment they [TS]

00:22:41   did was to see what you could do the [TS]

00:22:44   best way to do like a Bill Monroe type [TS]

00:22:46   one mic setup to record a band versus [TS]

00:22:49   what you can do with two mics and it was [TS]

00:22:51   so fascinating hear him talk about like [TS]

00:22:52   I guess you know mics have different [TS]

00:22:54   dead spots like having to do with the [TS]

00:22:55   car Toit as you say but basically like [TS]

00:22:57   how you put the drums up this far away [TS]

00:23:00   and in this area so that they only get [TS]

00:23:02   picked up by this part of the mic it was [TS]

00:23:04   fascinating the what a dark art it was [TS]

00:23:07   to get that done right unbelievable and [TS]

00:23:11   what's crazy is that now we we all are [TS]

00:23:14   listening to stereo music recorded [TS]

00:23:16   stereo and mix stereo what's a mixed [TS]

00:23:20   stereo which means that across the [TS]

00:23:23   stereo field typically what we do is we [TS]

00:23:26   put the drums on the bass right up the [TS]

00:23:30   middle which means that they are equally [TS]

00:23:32   present in both sides of the stereo [TS]

00:23:35   field because if you put the bass over [TS]

00:23:37   one side the low end the bass [TS]

00:23:42   information is so for lack of a better [TS]

00:23:45   term heavy it's really distracting the [TS]

00:23:47   Ramones for stoutness like that yeah I [TS]

00:23:50   think the memory serves the Ramones is [TS]

00:23:52   drums in the middle [TS]

00:23:54   I believe bass is all on one left the [TS]

00:23:57   right channel and then guitars on the [TS]

00:23:58   other channel yeah it's it just feels [TS]

00:24:01   miss it feels unbalanced it feels poorly [TS]

00:24:04   weighted your your your attention is [TS]

00:24:07   drawn over to the heavy you know bass [TS]

00:24:10   has gravity and it pulls you it pulls [TS]

00:24:14   your ear now on on the on the Beatles [TS]

00:24:17   records of course we've [TS]

00:24:19   finally made it to the Beatles mm-hmm [TS]

00:24:21   hello because those records were so [TS]

00:24:26   pioneering the you know the original [TS]

00:24:29   mixes of all those Beatles records word [TS]

00:24:33   mono and when it was time to mix them [TS]

00:24:35   for stereo which was considered a novel [TS]

00:24:38   like kind of weird experimental thing [TS]

00:24:43   that only weirdos would listen to nobody [TS]

00:24:45   had stereo music equipment at the time [TS]

00:24:47   you know like stereo home listening [TS]

00:24:49   equipment they made these stereo mixes [TS]

00:24:52   and in those cases they did put the [TS]

00:24:55   drums over here and the bass over there [TS]

00:24:57   but it was just that we're dealing with [TS]

00:24:58   George Martin who was genius and somehow [TS]

00:25:02   those are really fascinating to listen [TS]

00:25:04   to but but we have we've fallen into [TS]

00:25:07   these habits in recorded music bass and [TS]

00:25:11   drums up the middle guitars panned wide [TS]

00:25:14   this guitar over here that guitar over [TS]

00:25:17   there and then your vocals right up the [TS]

00:25:20   middle - but then harmony vocals spread [TS]

00:25:23   liberally over here and then you're [TS]

00:25:25   gonna get your little piano on the you [TS]

00:25:27   know half way over on the right where a [TS]

00:25:30   little bit of it's on the left but it [TS]

00:25:31   sounds like it's in the space right yeah [TS]

00:25:34   and and the worst offenders are those [TS]

00:25:37   drum drum recordings where they actually [TS]

00:25:41   record the drums and and mix them [TS]

00:25:44   stereophonic lee so when the drummer [TS]

00:25:46   starts to start his fill it starts in [TS]

00:25:49   your left ear and goes to your right ear [TS]

00:25:50   it's like a buddy buddy buddy did this [TS]

00:25:53   on commander thinks aloud to much [TS]

00:25:54   acclaim well well but but that was a [TS]

00:25:57   that was a different trick which was [TS]

00:25:59   that different parts every different [TS]

00:26:01   spread yeah every one of those was a [TS]

00:26:04   mono recording of a full drum kit and we [TS]

00:26:07   just situated those different mono [TS]

00:26:09   recordings across the stereo field so it [TS]

00:26:13   wasn't alike but boo-boo-boo-boo-boo in [TS]

00:26:16   the in that same way of like we have a [TS]

00:26:18   we have 10 mics on this drum kit and we [TS]

00:26:21   have each one of them arranged [TS]

00:26:23   differently in the in the stereo field [TS]

00:26:25   it was like no his kick drum is [TS]

00:26:27   happening [TS]

00:26:29   in six different drum tracks know how [TS]

00:26:31   you hit I don't know how person's mind [TS]

00:26:33   could work like that no it's not a mind [TS]

00:26:35   it's a he did something else it's a you [TS]

00:26:39   know is that that anyway so Chamberlain [TS]

00:26:41   was that I want magic but so your your [TS]

00:26:45   cardioid what that is is it's a [TS]

00:26:48   microphone it's a it's a directionality [TS]

00:26:51   of the microphone and if you're talking [TS]

00:26:53   into just sort of an omnidirectional [TS]

00:26:55   microphone it's picking up everything [TS]

00:26:57   all the way around it equally and that [TS]

00:27:00   would be very distracting if you were [TS]

00:27:03   sitting talking into a microphone like [TS]

00:27:04   that because it's a train would go by [TS]

00:27:07   and it would be just as loud as as your [TS]

00:27:10   voice that's not good I don't want that [TS]

00:27:12   right well that's not what you're doing [TS]

00:27:14   you know your your little your little [TS]

00:27:16   sure beta 87 is it's very directional I [TS]

00:27:20   mean if you if you turn the mic away and [TS]

00:27:22   talk into the side of it it's gonna it's [TS]

00:27:27   going to pick up your voice not as well [TS]

00:27:30   right right and then that and your [TS]

00:27:31   microphone is actually very like [TS]

00:27:34   proximity effect is very important if [TS]

00:27:36   you get right up on that microphone it [TS]

00:27:37   sounds very different than if you're [TS]

00:27:39   five feet away from it or if you're even [TS]

00:27:41   two feet away from some right yeah I [TS]

00:27:44   mean the you know will your chair back a [TS]

00:27:46   foot and talking to it huh [TS]

00:27:48   okay here's me back here and we're [TS]

00:27:51   closer to it wanna know or I can speak [TS]

00:27:53   quietly and I'm proximity it so yeah [TS]

00:27:56   it's absolutely you know and so do these [TS]

00:27:59   things if you use that microphone [TS]

00:28:02   properly your you know your lips are not [TS]

00:28:05   going to be that far away from it at a [TS]

00:28:06   windscreen on it I got a I got this a [TS]

00:28:10   really cheap windscreen thing that Marco [TS]

00:28:12   recommended that's going to keep the [TS]

00:28:14   sibling Sena message on my plosives your [TS]

00:28:18   plosive sound amazing thank you thank [TS]

00:28:20   you but the closer you get to that [TS]

00:28:23   microphone the more the microphone is [TS]

00:28:25   going to pick up and the better it's [TS]

00:28:26   going to work but so all this cardioid [TS]

00:28:31   stuff it's like ah here you're not going [TS]

00:28:38   to be able I don't think with with uh [TS]

00:28:40   with [TS]

00:28:42   adjusting the directionality of your mic [TS]

00:28:44   to like hyper-cardioid I still think [TS]

00:28:47   you're going to get that train in the [TS]

00:28:48   background because people would miss it [TS]

00:28:51   it's mostly it's a thought experiment [TS]

00:28:52   because I think their people would miss [TS]

00:28:54   the train let's be honest I would miss [TS]

00:28:56   it you could put a weird noise gate on [TS]

00:28:59   what you're doing but if you're talking [TS]

00:29:01   the mics gonna be open if you're if [TS]

00:29:06   you're worried about like the train [TS]

00:29:08   interrupting your co-hosts you could put [TS]

00:29:13   a you could put a like a some kind of [TS]

00:29:16   noise gate on it but I think that would [TS]

00:29:18   sound weird to you would hear this gate [TS]

00:29:20   opening and closing unless you had it [TS]

00:29:23   set really really nicely I think you [TS]

00:29:27   just I think it's just your sound I was [TS]

00:29:30   going to make a terrible dad joke about [TS]

00:29:31   a something a notional Joe pass filter [TS]

00:29:33   it would be too obscure of a joke to [TS]

00:29:36   make but I did discover that Joe passes [TS]

00:29:38   full name is Joseph Anthony Jacobi poss [TS]

00:29:42   ilaqua [TS]

00:29:42   oh my goodness isn't that a fantastic [TS]

00:29:45   name pause ilaqua [TS]

00:29:47   fossil aqua that is double aqua is [TS]

00:29:51   drinking water what is posilac well [TS]

00:29:53   people love it by the way in passing [TS]

00:29:55   people love it when we guess what words [TS]

00:29:57   mean in other languages you know really [TS]

00:30:00   loves that in my experience the Germans [TS]

00:30:02   the chaco the Germans love it when you [TS]

00:30:05   guess what things mean like you [TS]

00:30:06   stipulated we know now we know what ver [TS]

00:30:08   MOC means it means make war right uh [TS]

00:30:11   means that well I'm man who knows maybe [TS]

00:30:14   that's what possible aqua means possible [TS]

00:30:15   means make war when it made it maybe it [TS]

00:30:18   means passing water uh-huh pasa la qua [TS]

00:30:24   yeah pasa la aqua in English I passing [TS]

00:30:27   I'm passing the water transitively urban [TS]

00:30:32   dictionary pasal aqua is a baller a [TS]

00:30:35   person I see I ever been dictionary has [TS]

00:30:38   gotten real fast and loose about what [TS]

00:30:39   Allah accept that's a lot Urban [TS]

00:30:43   Dictionary has turned into you know it's [TS]

00:30:46   a great resource but it also like I [TS]

00:30:48   don't know there are 40 entries all [TS]

00:30:51   saying essentially the same thing but [TS]

00:30:52   everybody gets just everybody gets to [TS]

00:30:55   say it in their own way and that's [TS]

00:30:57   starting to get boring like it happened [TS]

00:30:58   with twin when the Republican candidate [TS]

00:31:00   made a remark on Twitter about something [TS]

00:31:02   being easy easy D what's up easy D and I [TS]

00:31:07   heard yeah so I know don't email me I [TS]

00:31:09   don't care but several people very [TS]

00:31:12   confidently gave very different [TS]

00:31:14   conclusive readings of what that means [TS]

00:31:17   some people said it's a sex thing [TS]

00:31:19   obviously you do yeah I'm going it's an [TS]

00:31:21   easy D and and I think it's maybe some [TS]

00:31:25   people think it's like a like a sports [TS]

00:31:27   term you know you know maybe it's like [TS]

00:31:30   easy defense or something but you know [TS]

00:31:31   or dictionary you know I actually [TS]

00:31:33   haven't looked up easy D on there lately [TS]

00:31:35   let me see what it says easy D uh-huh [TS]

00:31:39   easy easy D according to the dictionary [TS]

00:31:41   a top that's just really nice to say a [TS]

00:31:45   easy D you see this is a mess this is a [TS]

00:31:48   mess people see the jackals the Jackals [TS]

00:31:50   have gotten in here and now they're [TS]

00:31:52   monkeying around top definition easy to [TS]

00:31:54   the penis deeply desired by Donald Trump [TS]

00:31:56   see ya a CD second definition a man that [TS]

00:32:01   is easy to get sex from as in a woman [TS]

00:32:04   saying gosh I could really use some easy [TS]

00:32:06   D right now easy D stands for douchebag [TS]

00:32:09   president see you guys your students are [TS]

00:32:11   really drop in here yeah yeah a guy [TS]

00:32:15   that's easy the thing is the D has got [TS]

00:32:17   to represent something does it represent [TS]

00:32:19   Deez Nuts this episode of Roderick on [TS]

00:32:25   the line is brought to you by Casper if [TS]

00:32:28   you learn more about Casper right now by [TS]

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00:34:36   line and all the great shows like what [TS]

00:34:40   is the D it's represent Deez Nuts [TS]

00:34:44   if somebody says give me the D yeah what [TS]

00:34:47   is the D in this case well I don't in [TS]

00:34:50   the vernacular in the parlance of our [TS]

00:34:51   time I I'm guessing it means dick Oh [TS]

00:34:54   dick [TS]

00:34:55   yeah easy D yeah in my experience dick [TS]

00:35:01   is a word and I don't I'm not trying to [TS]

00:35:03   be normative here oh but I think dick is [TS]

00:35:07   a word that men use more often than [TS]

00:35:11   women [TS]

00:35:11   when specifically referring to a penis [TS]

00:35:13   of note uh in my experience they don't [TS]

00:35:16   say dick as much whoo girls yeah dick [TS]

00:35:20   sort of sort [TS]

00:35:21   boobs and tits type situation mm-hmm [TS]

00:35:24   mm-hmm I mean don't you feel like [TS]

00:35:26   there's differences in in in who uses [TS]

00:35:28   that in a not meant to be offensive way [TS]

00:35:31   but just like this is how I talk about [TS]

00:35:32   my body I have never heard a woman used [TS]

00:35:35   the word boobs I don't think really I I [TS]

00:35:39   knew some wife heard very few women say [TS]

00:35:42   tits hmm it's ugly its tits [TS]

00:35:46   tinnie tinnie word I get with it that [TS]

00:35:51   would write the word boobs BEW be s [TS]

00:35:54   that's really cute she would send that [TS]

00:35:58   in written communication Eve's but I but [TS]

00:36:03   I don't you know this is the thing right [TS]

00:36:05   I mean dirty talk how do you how do you [TS]

00:36:09   affect how do you pull it off even work [TS]

00:36:11   yeah it's a it's very confusing you [TS]

00:36:14   don't know you don't know exactly where [TS]

00:36:17   because it's all very all the words are [TS]

00:36:19   bad yeah you gotta be careful remarks [TS]

00:36:21   when you're exploring that kind of thing [TS]

00:36:22   you need you need to be real careful [TS]

00:36:25   well careful just because it's because [TS]

00:36:29   of it is spell breaking like it's it's [TS]

00:36:33   not it's not that it's not that it's [TS]

00:36:35   offensive so much it is or offense or [TS]

00:36:38   not offensive or whatever but you don't [TS]

00:36:40   want to make the other person laugh when [TS]

00:36:43   you are being serious right when here [TS]

00:36:47   laughs my dick and they go and he say [TS]

00:36:52   what that's something something bad has [TS]

00:36:56   happened it's gone off the rails you [TS]

00:36:57   know and if she says like oh I'm sorry [TS]

00:37:01   the only person that ever used the word [TS]

00:37:04   dick was my grandfather hmm you know [TS]

00:37:07   like I I mean I I knew a girl who said [TS]

00:37:09   one time like her grandmother used the [TS]

00:37:12   word twat what at just as a just as a [TS]

00:37:17   descriptor just as you now would say [TS]

00:37:19   vagina it was just some fucking [TS]

00:37:21   Appalachian thing where she would be [TS]

00:37:24   changing like the little girl's diaper [TS]

00:37:26   and like oh well here wipe her little [TS]

00:37:28   twat or whatever my goodness really [TS]

00:37:30   so this girl like that word which Allah [TS]

00:37:35   of us would feel like was like a pretty [TS]

00:37:38   tough work pretty edgy to her it was [TS]

00:37:42   just like a sweet little old comfortable [TS]

00:37:44   like country grandma word so everybody's [TS]

00:37:48   got a different everybody's got brings a [TS]

00:37:50   whole different bunch of suitcases into [TS]

00:37:53   that mind room and how the hell do you [TS]

00:37:57   do it you know like for a long time I [TS]

00:37:59   would never use vagina in that context [TS]

00:38:01   because it sounded like something that [TS]

00:38:04   your OBGYN [TS]

00:38:05   yeah it sounds a little bit kind of [TS]

00:38:06   collage achill but there but it is the [TS]

00:38:10   it is the term of art it's true and so I [TS]

00:38:14   think there are a lot of people that are [TS]

00:38:15   like listen there's not a lot of good [TS]

00:38:16   words here so just stick to the you know [TS]

00:38:19   stick to the main one stick to the road [TS]

00:38:21   right don't go off into the UM are you I [TS]

00:38:25   had I was fortunate enough to be seeing [TS]

00:38:28   a girl in college who had a really cute [TS]

00:38:30   one and it was so she had a she had a [TS]

00:38:34   little sister who was one of those [TS]

00:38:35   miracle babies like she was she was 21 [TS]

00:38:39   her brother was 19 and then her baby [TS]

00:38:43   sister was two yeah yeah yes her mom got [TS]

00:38:47   pregnant like 42 like out of nowhere you [TS]

00:38:50   imagine the surprise surprise guess what [TS]

00:38:52   a few things around yeah you thought you [TS]

00:38:57   were gonna go live on a cruise ship [TS]

00:38:58   didn't you and and her her mother would [TS]

00:39:04   when referring to her her swimsuit area [TS]

00:39:07   downstairs we'll call it all bottom and [TS]

00:39:09   I still think that's really cute yeah [TS]

00:39:11   but that's you don't want it you don't [TS]

00:39:13   want to be interacting with a girl [TS]

00:39:15   bottom I think it's sweet unless it's a [TS]

00:39:18   babble this is the thing this is the [TS]

00:39:20   thing boy bottoms I mean it in a fraught [TS]

00:39:27   power exchange no no I gotta get a girl [TS]

00:39:32   bottom there's also a bottom that's also [TS]

00:39:35   in as part of the mix down there like an [TS]

00:39:37   actual bottom hang on what yeah you're [TS]

00:39:41   right the beep the UH the the word so [TS]

00:39:45   for a while I was like look the word [TS]

00:39:47   pussy [TS]

00:39:49   is it's a nice word it's a sweet word it [TS]

00:39:51   means like a kitty cat yeah it's like a [TS]

00:39:53   sweet little it's it's so much better [TS]

00:39:55   than the other words can I just at least [TS]

00:39:58   eliminate the confusion in my own [TS]

00:40:01   universe by just using that word we'll [TS]

00:40:04   just that's it's a fine word I don't [TS]

00:40:08   mean anything bad by it it's just like [TS]

00:40:10   it just seems sweeter and I'd like to [TS]

00:40:13   refer to that part of your body let's [TS]

00:40:16   say I'm saying to someone as an [TS]

00:40:18   introduction like hey now that we're [TS]

00:40:20   getting close let's work on so what's [TS]

00:40:22   the secondary yeah um and I encountered [TS]

00:40:26   quite a bit of uh like about the word [TS]

00:40:31   pussy which seemed very sweet but but at [TS]

00:40:35   least to people I know it's like sounds [TS]

00:40:39   it's cringy and I'm like at the same [TS]

00:40:44   time it is a word that many women I know [TS]

00:40:48   would use to privately refer to their [TS]

00:40:50   girl bottom mmm-hmm I'd say more so than [TS]

00:40:53   twat well I don't think anybody use this [TS]

00:40:57   twat unless you're a policeman yeah [TS]

00:41:00   clean out our twats so get so many [TS]

00:41:04   letters from what from the from the [TS]

00:41:06   McElroy brothers you know not all West [TS]

00:41:08   Virginians ha ha but you know like I'd I [TS]

00:41:14   can't use the word dick with a straight [TS]

00:41:16   face because it just I don't know it [TS]

00:41:21   passed on to the other so that's like [TS]

00:41:22   that's like a word ass like it that's [TS]

00:41:24   now a term of art dick I mean it's [TS]

00:41:27   somebody who behaves like a dick oh I [TS]

00:41:29   see what you're saying you know well [TS]

00:41:31   don't be an ass I use that I use it that [TS]

00:41:34   way but has come a long way but but bu [TS]

00:41:40   TT mm-hmm that's another very tricky [TS]

00:41:46   thing because everybody thinks about [TS]

00:41:49   their butt right everybody's got a thing [TS]

00:41:51   some thoughts about their own butt yeah [TS]

00:41:53   and it's unclear who wants what aspect [TS]

00:42:00   of their butt well who wants [TS]

00:42:01   attention call - what aspect of their [TS]

00:42:04   own but like oh I'm so glad you brought [TS]

00:42:08   this up yeah I really really am because [TS]

00:42:11   I think I think you can run into some [TS]

00:42:13   real danger zones if you're not fairly [TS]

00:42:15   specific about what you mean what we [TS]

00:42:16   talk about when we talk about butts I [TS]

00:42:18   think you can say you have a nice butt [TS]

00:42:21   which in that case might mean that the [TS]

00:42:24   shape of your posterior looks good in [TS]

00:42:26   pants [TS]

00:42:27   right I mean I think everyone at a base [TS]

00:42:31   level wants to hear that they have a [TS]

00:42:34   nice butt oh yeah yeah if you're getting [TS]

00:42:37   intimate with somebody to say just [TS]

00:42:39   casually sometime like not you know like [TS]

00:42:41   you can say it in the in the boudoir but [TS]

00:42:44   even if you're just like out on the town [TS]

00:42:46   and you've been dating for a while you [TS]

00:42:48   know to lean over and say like you know [TS]

00:42:50   what you've got a really nice butt that [TS]

00:42:52   will I think 40 years later that will [TS]

00:42:56   still be in their mind room that's a [TS]

00:42:59   really nice thing you said one time my [TS]

00:43:01   favorite mind room in their mind house [TS]

00:43:03   yeah that is a that's a freaking oil [TS]

00:43:06   painting over the fireplace of their [TS]

00:43:08   mind house right like my other once said [TS]

00:43:12   that you know just sort of like off hand [TS]

00:43:15   you have a really nice butt I got a [TS]

00:43:18   compliment [TS]

00:43:18   along those lines having to do with with [TS]

00:43:21   the with the swimsuit area I got a [TS]

00:43:24   compliment in 1986 that I still think [TS]

00:43:26   about yeah isn't that nice it's just [TS]

00:43:28   you're right I know well paying in my [TS]

00:43:29   mind house it was I was like what would [TS]

00:43:31   have put a nice thing to say and she [TS]

00:43:33   said in a way that didn't feel forced it [TS]

00:43:34   was very it seemed like she she offered [TS]

00:43:37   it freely and of her own accord just in [TS]

00:43:40   passing and I still think about that was [TS]

00:43:42   those a long time ago that's what 30 [TS]

00:43:43   years ago yeah I mean that's the key I [TS]

00:43:47   was walking with my girlfriend one time [TS]

00:43:49   in a group of guys a group of all my [TS]

00:43:51   friends and we're kind of bringing up [TS]

00:43:54   the rear if you will and and we're on [TS]

00:43:58   the way down to the bar we're going to [TS]

00:44:00   the NAR Tavern and there's you know six [TS]

00:44:04   guys ahead of us and we're walking along [TS]

00:44:05   and she just sort of casually under her [TS]

00:44:07   breath says you know like six guys I'm [TS]

00:44:09   not a single good but [TS]

00:44:12   and I was like whoa it had not occurred [TS]

00:44:15   to me that that she was looking at you [TS]

00:44:21   know and she was casual remark yeah but [TS]

00:44:24   I looked ahead and I was like okay [TS]

00:44:26   alright so looking at these six butts [TS]

00:44:28   none of them are good okay okay [TS]

00:44:30   memorize this memorize these butts and [TS]

00:44:34   understand that these do not these are [TS]

00:44:37   not goodbye so you went into Terminator [TS]

00:44:39   heads-up mode at this point like you're [TS]

00:44:40   just gathering information about this [TS]

00:44:42   new environment that you would later use [TS]

00:44:44   you're like an AI John you're gay I know [TS]

00:44:46   this this corpus of information to have [TS]

00:44:48   to apply in other circumstances looking [TS]

00:44:51   at these six guys ahead of us I would [TS]

00:44:53   have made a lot of assessments right [TS]

00:44:55   like oh this is a bunch of that you know [TS]

00:44:57   like this is a bunch of ding-a-lings or [TS]

00:45:00   none of these guys has any fashion sense [TS]

00:45:03   or you know whatever look like a bunch [TS]

00:45:06   of soccer players or whatever but I [TS]

00:45:08   would not have said that's gotta be up [TS]

00:45:11   there with is this your first day soccer [TS]

00:45:14   play what are you a bunch of soccer [TS]

00:45:16   buddy hey hey soccer player keep driving [TS]

00:45:21   but once you put a soccer on your head [TS]

00:45:24   and play but I but now yeah she had [TS]

00:45:28   given me this whole new field of [TS]

00:45:31   information to consider which was six [TS]

00:45:33   guys not a nice button in the bunch and [TS]

00:45:35   you know and of course the next nation [TS]

00:45:38   rich sentence yeah and here are levels [TS]

00:45:41   I'm the seventh guy right and she's [TS]

00:45:44   walking next to me she if I was up there [TS]

00:45:47   with those soccer players would she be [TS]

00:45:48   like there's one nice but in the group [TS]

00:45:50   or what it were or would there be sort [TS]

00:45:52   of a blanket like I mean it and at a [TS]

00:45:54   certain point if you're in if you're in [TS]

00:45:56   a crowd of six guys with not a nice but [TS]

00:45:58   how nice does your bud have to be to [TS]

00:46:01   stand out yeah yeah you know like is if [TS]

00:46:04   your butt is being assessed in all by [TS]

00:46:06   itself it might be like yeah it's a nice [TS]

00:46:09   butt huh [TS]

00:46:09   but if you're in a group of bad butts [TS]

00:46:11   yeah oh you get lumped in with them [TS]

00:46:14   interesting okay yeah so so uh so that's [TS]

00:46:20   the type of thing like the but if you go [TS]

00:46:22   any deeper into [TS]

00:46:25   a into like what you like about [TS]

00:46:30   someone's but it gets tricky right away [TS]

00:46:33   boy does it ever oh there's just levels [TS]

00:46:36   and levels it's it's a minefield the but [TS]

00:46:38   it's really tricky and particularly now [TS]

00:46:40   like the the the fashion for the [TS]

00:46:43   millenniums is these high-waisted jeans [TS]

00:46:45   that we wore those were the fashion when [TS]

00:46:50   I was in high school too and they are [TS]

00:46:54   not the most becoming style because they [TS]

00:46:59   look really good on someone who has a [TS]

00:47:02   very pear-shaped bottom but they don't [TS]

00:47:06   really look good on everybody and [TS]

00:47:09   because yet because they're designed for [TS]

00:47:12   like a narrow waist and a sort of very [TS]

00:47:15   curvy you know like if they look they're [TS]

00:47:20   meant to look like a pair mm-hmm [TS]

00:47:22   exaggerated that particular curve do you [TS]

00:47:24   think they go up high like could it be [TS]

00:47:26   to like cover up a lower back tattoo or [TS]

00:47:28   do you think it's mostly to provide a [TS]

00:47:29   certain shape a suggestion of shape good [TS]

00:47:31   question I find them to be in the main [TS]

00:47:35   create less shape than them other pairs [TS]

00:47:43   of jeans because it in the in the early [TS]

00:47:46   2000s the late nineties in the early [TS]

00:47:48   2000s the gene technology I think really [TS]

00:47:52   focused your attention strictly on the [TS]

00:47:55   butt so that your lower back was not [TS]

00:47:59   engaged and your you know like your even [TS]

00:48:03   your your I mean I guess your your [TS]

00:48:06   thighs are engaged in a sort of general [TS]

00:48:08   but frame mmm-hmm this part the lamb is [TS]

00:48:11   the continuum of the synecdoche or [TS]

00:48:13   metonymy but there's there's a whole lot [TS]

00:48:15   of pieces and parts to talk about here [TS]

00:48:17   so much going on uh-huh but if you if [TS]

00:48:20   the if the jeans were focused strictly [TS]

00:48:22   on making the butt seem high and tight [TS]

00:48:24   which I think was the that was the [TS]

00:48:26   version of like seven jeans or whatever [TS]

00:48:28   that was that 90s 2000s late 90s early [TS]

00:48:33   2000s like gene technology you could [TS]

00:48:36   have a narrow waist or why [TS]

00:48:38   waste you could have a you could be [TS]

00:48:41   hourglass-shaped or you could be square [TS]

00:48:44   and none of that was being the gene was [TS]

00:48:48   not interacting with the rest of your [TS]

00:48:49   body really it was just focused on [TS]

00:48:51   making your bottom look good [TS]

00:48:53   you're just the just the bottom and so [TS]

00:48:57   those genes were very successful and I [TS]

00:48:58   think they're very popular with people [TS]

00:49:00   my generation because we'd been [TS]

00:49:02   struggling always struggling to figure [TS]

00:49:04   out how to make your bottom look good [TS]

00:49:05   and making the maybe classic error of [TS]

00:49:08   thinking that your bottom starts up [TS]

00:49:10   under your arm and how do I make my [TS]

00:49:13   bottom look good when I don't have a [TS]

00:49:15   waist or how do I make my bottom look [TS]

00:49:17   good when I have a high waist or you [TS]

00:49:19   know and all this stuff and it was just [TS]

00:49:20   like oh no these jeans are low waisted [TS]

00:49:23   so they're not trying to be up in your [TS]

00:49:25   back and they just start thinking about [TS]

00:49:29   like how to make your bottom well so now [TS]

00:49:32   we're into these high-waisted jeans and [TS]

00:49:33   the high-waisted jeans are just by their [TS]

00:49:36   very nature they are including your back [TS]

00:49:39   in your bottom hmm there including waist [TS]

00:49:43   in your bottom and they're a lot there's [TS]

00:49:46   now there's a lot more going on and it's [TS]

00:49:51   part of them it's part of normcore I [TS]

00:49:53   feel like I said still a thing well I [TS]

00:49:56   just feel like in general the [TS]

00:49:58   millenniums are less fashion uh they're [TS]

00:50:02   I mean they they fashion still matters [TS]

00:50:04   but they're let they less give a damn [TS]

00:50:05   you know I just I feel like they're a [TS]

00:50:08   lot more free with you know you rep [TS]

00:50:12   whatever you want to rep I agree I think [TS]

00:50:13   there's a lot to admire about the [TS]

00:50:15   millenniums mm but my kids they don't [TS]

00:50:18   Jeff as they say they don't give an F [TS]

00:50:21   but the high waist Regina I think is a [TS]

00:50:23   is an error if I can if I can just be [TS]

00:50:27   like a ghost of Christmas past here [TS]

00:50:29   mm-hmm you don't if if you have a choice [TS]

00:50:33   just leave it unless you are unless you [TS]

00:50:36   really know for a fact that you are one [TS]

00:50:38   of the rare rare individuals you know [TS]

00:50:40   and let in the nineteen seventies you [TS]

00:50:42   have those Gloria Vanderbilt jeans and [TS]

00:50:43   they look bad on everybody except for [TS]

00:50:45   one out of a thousand people if you're [TS]

00:50:47   one of if you know for a fact you're one [TS]

00:50:49   of those [TS]

00:50:49   like yes you can wear anything yes but [TS]

00:50:52   just in general you're not going to find [TS]

00:50:54   happiness I don't think in high-waisted [TS]

00:50:56   jeans I just don't think it's there but [TS]

00:51:01   you know like for instance if you if you [TS]

00:51:03   are somebody who's lette if you ever [TS]

00:51:04   were to say to somebody like you've got [TS]

00:51:06   a really big but I feel like you just [TS]

00:51:10   pulled the pin out of a grenade and [TS]

00:51:12   you're holding it in your hand and [TS]

00:51:15   you're also holding with your other hand [TS]

00:51:17   you're holding on to the edge of a clip [TS]

00:51:19   and you're and your feet are not your [TS]

00:51:21   feet are just swinging the air if you oh [TS]

00:51:25   but the grenade is also tied to a string [TS]

00:51:28   which is tied around your neck so if you [TS]

00:51:30   let go the grenade I was wondering how [TS]

00:51:31   you pull out the pin if you only have [TS]

00:51:33   one hand do the guy like a sergeant in a [TS]

00:51:36   movie that's right that's right you [TS]

00:51:38   pulled it out pulled out the pin and now [TS]

00:51:39   you're holding the grenade if you let go [TS]

00:51:41   of it in order to grab the cliff wall [TS]

00:51:43   okay then you've got a live grenade tied [TS]

00:51:45   around your neck [TS]

00:51:46   what if you're holding on to the cliff [TS]

00:51:47   by the grenade I don't think you can how [TS]

00:51:50   do you hold on to a cliff with the [TS]

00:51:51   grenade but I've never been in the [TS]

00:51:52   situation about saying it would really [TS]

00:51:54   work for the narratives that maybe maybe [TS]

00:51:56   it's just one little one little bit that [TS]

00:51:57   got stuck on there maybe it's on a root [TS]

00:51:59   right you know I'm saying but your your [TS]

00:52:01   only way your only survival is going to [TS]

00:52:02   be keep holding the grenade that's a lot [TS]

00:52:05   like that's a lot like talking about [TS]

00:52:06   somebody's but I see you went a [TS]

00:52:09   different direction with it I was going [TS]

00:52:10   in the like year there's no way out here [TS]

00:52:12   now I see I see but you were you were [TS]

00:52:14   saying like you're now you're [TS]

00:52:15   permanently lodged on the side of this [TS]

00:52:17   when the clip is made of grenades hold [TS]

00:52:20   it in head maybe if you zoom out far [TS]

00:52:23   enough you realize that the whole cliff [TS]

00:52:25   is a grenade [TS]

00:52:26   maybe the hole maybe the world is [TS]

00:52:29   exhibit is a universe it's not so [TS]

00:52:32   different than like the win are you [TS]

00:52:34   expecting gasps oh that's bad I mean you [TS]

00:52:38   know that the pad the powder that runs [TS]

00:52:39   do all of this I think is like before [TS]

00:52:41   you open your big mouth make sure you [TS]

00:52:43   understand what the play is right [TS]

00:52:45   what yeah I mean I have I have had [TS]

00:52:48   success with the had success with the [TS]

00:52:51   listen within the larger context you [TS]

00:52:54   have a very small but but within the [TS]

00:52:57   context of small buts you have a nice [TS]

00:52:58   big putt you understand yeah it's nice [TS]

00:53:03   that you know that did PowerPoint if you [TS]

00:53:07   can get you things you can't explain it [TS]

00:53:08   but if you can create an atmosphere [TS]

00:53:10   where you are able to say you have a big [TS]

00:53:13   butt but it's within the context of [TS]

00:53:16   being of having like a very small but oh [TS]

00:53:19   yeah but I mean couldn't you go with [TS]

00:53:21   something I don't know well see it [TS]

00:53:22   depends on what you're trying to [TS]

00:53:23   embarrass well like comically small not [TS]

00:53:27   like this abling Lisa yeah like you are [TS]

00:53:30   we have you a small bubble within that [TS]

00:53:32   context it's pretty large [TS]

00:53:33   right that was just being a baffling [TS]

00:53:35   depending on what you're trying to [TS]

00:53:37   accomplish [TS]

00:53:38   like if part of what you're trying to [TS]

00:53:39   accomplish is to just pay a pay a [TS]

00:53:41   compliment and walk away which could I [TS]

00:53:43   kill a stranger I don't think you can [TS]

00:53:44   refer to their butt at all just talking [TS]

00:53:47   about people's bodies is dangerous in [TS]

00:53:49   the Big Dance I'm talking strictly [TS]

00:53:52   within the context of somebody that you [TS]

00:53:54   are romantically involved in because you [TS]

00:53:55   should not be commenting on the body of [TS]

00:53:57   anybody else yeah unless you are just [TS]

00:54:02   unless you are strictly like in a [TS]

00:54:03   situation where you are either naked [TS]

00:54:05   with them or on your way to being naked [TS]

00:54:07   with them yeah and in that case and it [TS]

00:54:10   should in that case I think it should [TS]

00:54:11   always be only complimentary that's you [TS]

00:54:15   know until it's like high-waisted jeans [TS]

00:54:16   unless you have a reason I would stick [TS]

00:54:18   with complimentary oh there's no I don't [TS]

00:54:21   think there's any way you can make a [TS]

00:54:23   remark about someone else's body that [TS]

00:54:25   you are sexually gay is that supposed to [TS]

00:54:27   be like that yeah that's good in your [TS]

00:54:29   considered there's so many ways that you [TS]

00:54:31   can offer someone constructive criticism [TS]

00:54:33   but not in their not in their body now [TS]

00:54:36   while they're literally naked one of the [TS]

00:54:38   oil paintings in my uh in my mind house [TS]

00:54:41   which is not over the fireplace it's one [TS]

00:54:44   of those oil paintings that you're like [TS]

00:54:45   do I put this in a bathroom where do I [TS]

00:54:48   put this bat what do I put this oil [TS]

00:54:49   painting but but a girl at college said [TS]

00:54:51   to me it's one of these great [TS]

00:54:53   compliments you have a great body if you [TS]

00:54:57   just did a few sit-ups oh wow that's and [TS]

00:55:02   I was like I have a great body thank you [TS]

00:55:07   if I just did a few sit-ups which I know [TS]

00:55:11   already I knew that I knew that I should [TS]

00:55:14   do some sit-ups [TS]

00:55:16   and ah thank you [TS]

00:55:20   you know like occasion in the [TS]

00:55:22   destructive she meant it [TS]

00:55:26   she was a she but she yeah it sounds [TS]

00:55:29   like consolation like she's consoling [TS]

00:55:30   you like hey fuck up little guy oh no no [TS]

00:55:34   it wasn't that it was that she was [TS]

00:55:36   trying to make me you know like like [TS]

00:55:39   I've dated a lot of she's like Nixon you [TS]

00:55:41   that's right who are trying to shape me [TS]

00:55:44   into they love me [TS]

00:55:46   ninety percent of Who I am is exactly [TS]

00:55:49   what they want [TS]

00:55:50   John John a project sent yeah that's [TS]

00:55:52   right it's the ten percent that's a [TS]

00:55:54   project that's very exciting to them and [TS]

00:55:56   in her case the ten percent was she was [TS]

00:55:59   just going to shape my body a little bit [TS]

00:56:01   just craft it a little bit so that it [TS]

00:56:02   was more to her liking and that involved [TS]

00:56:04   a little bit of sit-ups now at 23 I had [TS]

00:56:09   a dad bod and at 48 I haven't really [TS]

00:56:14   much exactly the same dad Bob so in that [TS]

00:56:18   sense I mean I'm not one of those 48 [TS]

00:56:20   year olds that still has a flat stomach [TS]

00:56:22   but it's because I never had a flat [TS]

00:56:23   stomach that single v in my life it's [TS]

00:56:26   just you doing you yeah that's right I'm [TS]

00:56:28   doing I think can I tell somebody I [TS]

00:56:31   think you can tell somebody that they [TS]

00:56:32   have a cute butt okay again they'd [TS]

00:56:36   better be somebody you're dating I do [TS]

00:56:37   not think you can say that to someone on [TS]

00:56:39   the bus or so they don't talk about [TS]

00:56:41   bodies at all John with anybody ever [TS]

00:56:43   oh dude this is all just speculative I [TS]

00:56:46   could not imagine saying any of these [TS]

00:56:48   words to people to like the to the clear [TS]

00:56:51   secretary to my second at your office [TS]

00:56:54   look Janice no Janice committed which [TS]

00:56:56   will give me a twirl [TS]

00:56:58   haha working nine to five yep cut about [TS]

00:57:02   you have kind of a big ass Janice Irene [TS]

00:57:05   was in the context of having a small I [TS]

00:57:07   think I'm a big one get back to that [TS]

00:57:08   dictation if someone said to me you have [TS]

00:57:12   a cute butt and and I have heard it over [TS]

00:57:14   the years but not and that's what are [TS]

00:57:16   you to work that in I had a feeling that [TS]

00:57:18   was coming that's one of your smaller [TS]

00:57:19   oil paintings but not enough times that [TS]

00:57:22   I believe it you know what I mean like [TS]

00:57:24   you know something was said universally [TS]

00:57:26   I would be like gee that's one of the [TS]

00:57:29   things that I know of [TS]

00:57:30   myself like universally women have said [TS]

00:57:33   that I have good legs [TS]

00:57:35   everyone is that right yeah and so I [TS]

00:57:39   believe it uh-huh because because [TS]

00:57:42   unbidden yeah it's just one of those [TS]

00:57:44   offhand comments like you know what [TS]

00:57:46   you're good legs [TS]

00:57:47   I heard back I feel like you could think [TS]

00:57:49   about you can think about your life and [TS]

00:57:51   what to believe in your life a little [TS]

00:57:53   bit like like my daughter was recently [TS]

00:57:54   looking at some of my old yearbooks and [TS]

00:57:56   from like like junior high and so many [TS]

00:58:00   of the things people wrote in my [TS]

00:58:02   yearbook are nearly identical and taken [TS]

00:58:05   as a whole they form a certain truth [TS]

00:58:07   that I could I could choose today sweet [TS]

00:58:10   well I could choose not we'll see stay [TS]

00:58:13   sweet even that you get enough of those [TS]

00:58:15   that mean something like this that's not [TS]

00:58:17   people filling up a whole page with that [TS]

00:58:19   time we made out at the roller rink [TS]

00:58:20   most of them many of them are uh you're [TS]

00:58:26   you're weird but cool you're weird but [TS]

00:58:31   cool you're weird but nice you're weird [TS]

00:58:33   but smart and the thing is that the [TS]

00:58:36   consistency to too many of these remarks [TS]

00:58:38   is that I am weird [TS]

00:58:39   that is the characteristic if you were [TS]

00:58:43   to put these into Excel what would [TS]

00:58:45   emerge is that in when I was 14 I was [TS]

00:58:47   weird and everyone said so right so in [TS]

00:58:49   that case I feel like that is whether I [TS]

00:58:51   like that or not or feel that's [TS]

00:58:53   distinctive or not the point is that's [TS]

00:58:55   the people speaking I heard that enough [TS]

00:58:57   noun open set in there you know and you [TS]

00:59:01   have sexy legs that was never an item [TS]

00:59:03   touch like right I could choose that [TS]

00:59:04   again I don't know if it's a synecdoche [TS]

00:59:06   arm autonomy or making things up but I [TS]

00:59:08   could just choose to believe that about [TS]

00:59:10   myself but I have not heard that often [TS]

00:59:12   enough that I think it's meaningful but [TS]

00:59:15   you have you've heard about your legs if [TS]

00:59:17   you look at my yearbook I think the I [TS]

00:59:20   think what you would put together over [TS]

00:59:21   the overall the comments it would be you [TS]

00:59:26   were a bastard to me for four years but [TS]

00:59:27   for some reason everyone likes you still [TS]

00:59:29   good luck and this continues now on [TS]

00:59:33   Facebook right don't get remarks from [TS]

00:59:35   people I think I hear still such an [TS]

00:59:37   asshole yeah you were absolutely [TS]

00:59:39   terrible to me but for some reason I [TS]

00:59:41   could never hate you [TS]

00:59:42   the [TS]

00:59:43   this is very confusing I hope I never [TS]

00:59:45   see you again but I also wish you well [TS]

00:59:48   um can forget that girl our license [TS]

00:59:50   plate back yeah I did we're friends now [TS]

00:59:54   um I feel like when I first met you and [TS]

00:59:58   when I would look at pictures of you [TS]

00:59:59   particularly [TS]

00:59:59   particularly [TS]

01:00:00   early pictures of you when you were in [TS]

01:00:01   college I my feeling was that Merlin man [TS]

01:00:05   was a very handsome guy and I have heard [TS]

01:00:09   several my friends have said this i [TS]

01:00:10   don't i don't see it i think i think [TS]

01:00:12   yeah i appreciate you saying that that [TS]

01:00:15   was your impression at the time uh well [TS]

01:00:17   you know the thing is you had feel like [TS]

01:00:19   you've aged well you have a kind of but [TS]

01:00:21   you know you have aged into a very like [TS]

01:00:26   appropriately interesting looking middle [TS]

01:00:28   aged man it's tough that you know you [TS]

01:00:31   have not fallen apart as well you know [TS]

01:00:34   there's always taught you like become [TS]

01:00:36   him more intensely I'm coming you I'm if [TS]

01:00:39   I were casting a catalog yeah a modeling [TS]

01:00:42   session like you'd be one of the type of [TS]

01:00:45   people that I would think like could [TS]

01:00:46   sell sell things still just with your [TS]

01:00:50   face Wow and that's not you know a lot [TS]

01:00:53   of people like there they face falls [TS]

01:00:55   apart um and it's just it's just that [TS]

01:00:57   God it's just what God chooses you know [TS]

01:01:00   it's not like it's not that for any for [TS]

01:01:03   any particular reason but I always felt [TS]

01:01:06   like you were handsome and did not [TS]

01:01:08   believe it did not know it or believe it [TS]

01:01:11   such that you never really capitalized [TS]

01:01:13   on your handsomeness you say anything is [TS]

01:01:16   this your is this your setup statement [TS]

01:01:18   for me like I could have been [TS]

01:01:19   good-looking if I like clean myself up a [TS]

01:01:20   little bit probably no no no it wasn't [TS]

01:01:22   that at all because you know I'll I I [TS]

01:01:23   think dirty is handsome no it was that [TS]

01:01:25   you didn't believe that you were [TS]

01:01:26   handsome so you never exploited it he [TS]

01:01:29   never went into a situation where you [TS]

01:01:30   where you please said well I'm handsome [TS]

01:01:33   that's all I'm gonna I'm gonna pull this [TS]

01:01:36   off because I'm handsome right yeah you [TS]

01:01:38   always you always carried yourself as [TS]

01:01:41   though the last thing you were the last [TS]

01:01:43   thing you believed was that you were [TS]

01:01:44   handsome or at least it wasn't like a [TS]

01:01:45   primary that's a that's a good [TS]

01:01:48   conclusion yeah yeah yeah yeah I think [TS]

01:01:52   for me I did not think I was handsome it [TS]

01:01:55   was clear I wasn't I was because I was [TS]

01:01:57   under I was undercooked [TS]

01:01:59   but at a certain point like a scallop I [TS]

01:02:03   did but at a certain point I think I [TS]

01:02:06   grew into my looks enough that now I [TS]

01:02:10   bamboozled people because I have [TS]

01:02:14   dramatic yeah charismatic right which is [TS]

01:02:18   you know which is this which is another [TS]

01:02:20   kind of awful comment now a really [TS]

01:02:23   really nice personality [TS]

01:02:25   yeah body room clothes good cook actly [TS]

01:02:29   exactly this is the thing type of thing [TS]

01:02:31   that my friend's parents said to me in [TS]

01:02:33   high school you know you're gonna grow [TS]

01:02:35   into your looks you're you're you're [TS]

01:02:37   very handsome ah in the sense that it as [TS]

01:02:41   an adult you will be handsome the things [TS]

01:02:43   people say to other people yeah where [TS]

01:02:45   you're just like yeah I was trying to be [TS]

01:02:47   helper for I would have preferred to be [TS]

01:02:49   like cute in high school but I guess [TS]

01:02:51   that wasn't what that wasn't my fate [TS]

01:02:53   like I was so we played a show the other [TS]

01:02:56   day and we got this three guys from my [TS]

01:02:59   high school showed up and you know three [TS]

01:03:02   guys that had never seen me play [TS]

01:03:04   actually one guy wasn't from my high [TS]

01:03:07   school he was from my ski team but he [TS]

01:03:10   was you know within Anchorage [TS]

01:03:13   if you were on the ski team by which I [TS]

01:03:18   mean initially the Alyeska mighty mites [TS]

01:03:22   and then ultimately graduate to the [TS]

01:03:25   Alyeska junior racers it was not a ski [TS]

01:03:30   team in the sense that we it wasn't like [TS]

01:03:31   a high school ski team where you [TS]

01:03:32   competed against other ski teams it was [TS]

01:03:36   a ski Kolob a ski culture where we you [TS]

01:03:39   competed against one another and then [TS]

01:03:42   the great ones went on to compete [TS]

01:03:44   nationally and then internationally it [TS]

01:03:48   was like it was like a like a like a [TS]

01:03:51   farm club for the for the world and I [TS]

01:03:55   think now in Alaska the high schools [TS]

01:03:58   have ski team downhill ski teams I'm [TS]

01:04:00   talking about they always had [TS]

01:04:01   cross-country teams that competed [TS]

01:04:03   against each other but now I think they [TS]

01:04:04   have downhill teams and it might be a [TS]

01:04:06   club sport like a like a what intramural [TS]

01:04:11   sport yeah but so one of the guys from [TS]

01:04:14   the ski team who went to a different [TS]

01:04:16   high school but he was part of our [TS]

01:04:18   larger gang because he because we were [TS]

01:04:21   all skiers together [TS]

01:04:23   so these three guys came to my came to [TS]

01:04:26   my my rock show and the in particular [TS]

01:04:34   the one that I knew from ski club that [TS]

01:04:37   was not from my high school he looks [TS]

01:04:38   exactly the same he looks the same as he [TS]

01:04:39   did when he was 16 and we're reaching an [TS]

01:04:42   age where that that's strange now when [TS]

01:04:44   that happens it's it's but I mean he [TS]

01:04:46   looks like a man he doesn't he's not [TS]

01:04:48   like he doesn't have a like a like a [TS]

01:04:50   sweet face or something he looks like a [TS]

01:04:52   full-grown adult yeah but he looks he [TS]

01:04:56   looks the same he would be instantly [TS]

01:04:58   identifiable as himself in a way that a [TS]

01:05:00   lot of people my age aren't a lot of [TS]

01:05:02   people I see that are my age and I'm [TS]

01:05:03   like I know you don't I and they're like [TS]

01:05:07   yes we know each other very well and [TS]

01:05:10   then I'm like ah it's you hi you know [TS]

01:05:14   like they've changed considerably he [TS]

01:05:17   just looked exactly like himself and [TS]

01:05:18   what's amazing is that of everybody I [TS]

01:05:22   know he has created exactly the Alaska [TS]

01:05:27   life he's a doctor and I grew up in a [TS]

01:05:31   neighborhood that was close to the [TS]

01:05:32   hospital in the college and most of my [TS]

01:05:35   friends parents were doctors and a lot [TS]

01:05:38   of my friends went on to become doctors [TS]

01:05:40   but they all moved out of Alaska right [TS]

01:05:42   so there a doctor here there a doctor [TS]

01:05:44   there their doctor there and they're [TS]

01:05:46   living some other doctor life some [TS]

01:05:48   Bellingham doctor life or some you know [TS]

01:05:50   California doctor life but he's a doctor [TS]

01:05:53   he has an airplane which he uses all the [TS]

01:05:57   time ski plane in the winter and a flow [TS]

01:06:01   plane in the summer which is very Alaska [TS]

01:06:04   thing to do and he uses that airplane [TS]

01:06:07   both to or I'm sorry he uses it to hunt [TS]

01:06:12   mm-hmm and so he'll post pictures on [TS]

01:06:15   facebook of like we just went out and [TS]

01:06:18   shot this giant elk or this mountain [TS]

01:06:20   sheep or whatever that is that they're [TS]

01:06:22   they're just out like hunting as part of [TS]

01:06:25   one of the things that they do as [TS]

01:06:26   Alaskans or they fly in somewhere and [TS]

01:06:29   catch giant king salmon [TS]

01:06:32   they they also put skis on it and fly [TS]

01:06:38   way up on the side of mountains and [TS]

01:06:41   everybody jumps out and you know and my [TS]

01:06:44   friend then flies the airplane down to [TS]

01:06:46   the bottom of the mountain and everybody [TS]

01:06:48   skis down the mountain and then gets [TS]

01:06:52   back in the airplane and fly back up and [TS]

01:06:54   land on the glacier and do it again like [TS]

01:06:56   this is the life that he is providing [TS]

01:06:59   for his children his teenage kids are [TS]

01:07:03   like let's go skiing dad and they get in [TS]

01:07:05   the airplane and they fly up and land on [TS]

01:07:06   the glacier and ski down like it's a [TS]

01:07:08   it's so Alaskan it just blows me away [TS]

01:07:13   how completely successfully he has [TS]

01:07:17   created this thing that seems almost [TS]

01:07:21   almost fantastical to me now having [TS]

01:07:24   lived in Seattle as long as I have but [TS]

01:07:26   was exactly kind of what that was the [TS]

01:07:30   environment I grew up in right your [TS]

01:07:32   friend's dad had a plane he flew you up [TS]

01:07:35   to their lake cabin and then you went [TS]

01:07:39   waterskiing and then he would fly you up [TS]

01:07:41   on the mountain and drop him it's just [TS]

01:07:42   like what kind of universe okay somebody [TS]

01:07:46   sent me a link to a video the other day [TS]

01:07:49   about this young woman who's like a [TS]

01:07:52   she's a young mother now and she'd been [TS]

01:07:55   an Alpine guide on Mount McKinley for [TS]

01:07:58   many many years and then after she had [TS]

01:08:00   her daughter she felt like being an [TS]

01:08:03   Alpina sk's was no longer I know was no [TS]

01:08:08   longer a safe job because she had a she [TS]

01:08:12   had a little daughter and every time you [TS]

01:08:13   go up on the mountain you risk dying [TS]

01:08:16   it's just the nature of going up on the [TS]

01:08:19   mountain the mountain decides whether [TS]

01:08:20   you get down or not and so up until that [TS]

01:08:24   point she'd been living a life where [TS]

01:08:26   every time you know her job was to go up [TS]

01:08:28   on the side of the mountain and try to [TS]

01:08:29   keep these people that are paying her [TS]

01:08:31   from dying and also as a you know as a [TS]

01:08:36   corollary to that try to keep herself [TS]

01:08:38   from dying but now she's a mom and that [TS]

01:08:40   doesn't feel right so she decided that [TS]

01:08:44   she was going to transfer her energy [TS]

01:08:46   into [TS]

01:08:46   becoming a bush pilot to fly the [TS]

01:08:48   climbers up and land them on the [TS]

01:08:50   mountain and her description of it why [TS]

01:08:52   it's way better is like well every night [TS]

01:08:55   I get to come home and sleep in my own [TS]

01:08:57   bed every morning I get to be up at [TS]

01:08:59   14,000 feet on the side of this mountain [TS]

01:09:02   why uh you know like dropping climbers [TS]

01:09:05   off up there and then I get to fly home [TS]

01:09:07   and go to bed in my little house in [TS]

01:09:08   Talkeetna and I was watching this and [TS]

01:09:10   just like Jesus this is this is totally [TS]

01:09:14   another version of this same weird [TS]

01:09:16   Alaskan life but when I was a kid it was [TS]

01:09:20   always the grown-ups doing it now I'm [TS]

01:09:23   watching this video this to me she still [TS]

01:09:26   reads as a young woman right she's [TS]

01:09:27   younger than I am she's like a young [TS]

01:09:29   mother and she and she's like this - [TS]

01:09:31   Havilland beaver and land hit on the [TS]

01:09:33   side of the freaking mountain and she's [TS]

01:09:36   flying with her little daughter it's [TS]

01:09:37   super cute like - there's a shot where [TS]

01:09:39   they're in a they're in a little cub and [TS]

01:09:41   they're taking off and her little [TS]

01:09:43   four-year-old is in the backseat like [TS]

01:09:44   the Sun is in my eyes and one of the [TS]

01:09:49   things about being in an airplane is [TS]

01:09:50   that uh there aren't in a small plane [TS]

01:09:54   that you don't have window shades mm-hmm [TS]

01:09:57   you want a lot of windows because you [TS]

01:09:59   want to be able to look out and make [TS]

01:10:00   sure you're not gonna fly into anything [TS]

01:10:01   and the way that you're like just by the [TS]

01:10:05   nature of it you're up in the sky [TS]

01:10:06   there's no trees shading you and the Sun [TS]

01:10:10   can come into a little plane and it's [TS]

01:10:12   just really blinding my dad used to fly [TS]

01:10:15   with two sets of sunglasses he would [TS]

01:10:19   have his sunglasses on and then it would [TS]

01:10:20   then the Sun would just be like adding [TS]

01:10:22   put another part another parable asshole [TS]

01:10:25   double sunglass anyway so I'm watching [TS]

01:10:29   this video I'm just like fucking ah [TS]

01:10:31   Alaska there's a part of me that is [TS]

01:10:35   there's a part of me that really feels [TS]

01:10:37   like I have done a poor job because I'm [TS]

01:10:40   not a bush pilot it's it's the weirdest [TS]

01:10:45   thing I didn't expected that that's [TS]

01:10:49   that's very interesting yeah it just [TS]

01:10:52   feels weird it feels weird to watch [TS]

01:10:53   those videos would be like ah my pals [TS]

01:10:55   are up there just you know fly [TS]

01:10:58   to get a burger in talkeetna what's [TS]

01:11:00   gonna be very muscular it sounds like a [TS]

01:11:02   very muscular lifestyle it doesn't feel [TS]

01:11:06   like that to them because they they feel [TS]

01:11:13   like the plane is a necessary tool it's [TS]

01:11:16   just like learning to drive a car if you [TS]

01:11:18   want to get up there where things are [TS]

01:11:19   interesting then that's what you need [TS]

01:11:23   and of course you want to get up where [TS]

01:11:25   things are interesting because once [TS]

01:11:26   you've skied up in the glacier why do [TS]

01:11:29   you want to go ride the chairlift I mean [TS]

01:11:32   the only reason you ride the chairlift [TS]

01:11:33   is because you do that Tuesdays [TS]

01:11:36   Wednesdays and Thursdays but if you have [TS]

01:11:37   all day why not fire the plane up and go [TS]

01:11:40   skip the real pal pal you go right I [TS]

01:11:46   could have known it's it's so utterly [TS]

01:11:50   foreign to me I mean all these different [TS]

01:11:52   modes of transportation and leaving the [TS]

01:11:54   house so often it's all very very [TS]

01:11:57   foreign to me [TS]

01:11:58   yeah leaving the house with the [TS]

01:12:00   expectation that all day long you're [TS]

01:12:03   going to be putting in effort it's not [TS]

01:12:05   easy to get the plane going and get it [TS]

01:12:07   up into the and fly up into the [TS]

01:12:09   mountains like it's tough I just sort [TS]

01:12:11   was so much danger my gosh danger [TS]

01:12:14   okay so let's explore this then you so [TS]

01:12:16   you feel like you she maybe should have [TS]

01:12:17   been a bush pilot no because if I had [TS]

01:12:22   wanted to be a bush pilot I guy [TS]

01:12:23   absolutely could have you know I I stood [TS]

01:12:25   at the I stood at the crossroads I [TS]

01:12:29   looked at the the road of bending off [TS]

01:12:33   into the wood and then took the other as [TS]

01:12:35   just as fair uh I was perfectly [TS]

01:12:40   positioned to be a bush pilot and I just [TS]

01:12:43   felt like oh yeah or I could go ride [TS]

01:12:49   freight trains yeah and the riding [TS]

01:12:52   freight trains felt more interesting [TS]

01:12:54   because being a bush pilot felt somewhat [TS]

01:12:57   men mundane just like going to medical [TS]

01:13:00   school did huh and then having gone and [TS]

01:13:04   ridden freight trains for a couple of [TS]

01:13:05   years then I followed then I went where [TS]

01:13:08   the day took me and ended up where I am [TS]

01:13:10   because I you know [TS]

01:13:11   Merlin I went where the day took me you [TS]

01:13:14   went with three took you yeah I never [TS]

01:13:17   had a plan I don't know if you did did [TS]

01:13:21   you have a plan uh I mean I had I had [TS]

01:13:23   notions but I never had a plan but I [TS]

01:13:25   think the day the day is a very [TS]

01:13:27   important unit for you [TS]

01:13:29   yeah the day the day is there's [TS]

01:13:33   important patterns to the day in your [TS]

01:13:35   life things like what is the uniform of [TS]

01:13:37   the day right you've gotten these dated [TS]

01:13:39   like reflect like you know might be how [TS]

01:13:41   you slept last night like what we know [TS]

01:13:42   where you have to be the day seems I'm [TS]

01:13:44   not saying you think merely in days but [TS]

01:13:46   the day is a very significant uh [TS]

01:13:49   quantity of time for you yeah yeah I [TS]

01:13:53   approach each day as though it is a new [TS]

01:13:57   well yeah each day is new I didn't so [TS]

01:14:01   for instance yesterday my plan for today [TS]

01:14:05   was to do this podcast with you that was [TS]

01:14:09   the thing that was the tentpole yeah for [TS]

01:14:11   the first that was the reason I was [TS]

01:14:12   going to get up in the morning was to do [TS]

01:14:13   this podcast and then after this I [TS]

01:14:18   immediately had immediately my notion of [TS]

01:14:22   the rest of the day became very vague it [TS]

01:14:25   was like I got to get up I got up to the [TS]

01:14:27   podcast with Merlin now after I'm done [TS]

01:14:29   doing the podcast with Merlin do I get [TS]

01:14:33   dressed well we'll figure that out when [TS]

01:14:36   we get there mmm does that govern partly [TS]

01:14:39   by like what are you getting dressed for [TS]

01:14:41   yeah that's gonna have Lee I mean are [TS]

01:14:43   you gonna wear like something we can go [TS]

01:14:44   out into the bush arm you know do I even [TS]

01:14:47   need to if I don't need to get dressed [TS]

01:14:50   why go through the whole rigmarole [TS]

01:14:51   that's true [TS]

01:14:52   am I gonna play guitar tomorrow could be [TS]

01:14:55   now - that's a pretty good idea put on [TS]

01:14:57   your guitar pants baby no no you don't [TS]

01:15:00   need pants for guitar [TS]

01:15:01   that's a sanitary you put a napkin or [TS]

01:15:05   something the thing is I'm not gonna [TS]

01:15:06   that guitar it's not like I'm gonna hand [TS]

01:15:08   it to somebody else [TS]

01:15:09   sometime and be like here play my play [TS]

01:15:11   the guitar that I was playing by me my [TS]

01:15:13   my nakedness but yeah but I do feel like [TS]

01:15:17   a lot of people in life had not just [TS]

01:15:21   like more of a plan than I did [TS]

01:15:24   that they had a real plan that they had [TS]

01:15:27   a plan this is why I was that I was [TS]

01:15:30   trying to differentiate between like [TS]

01:15:31   having a guess or a reckon there are [TS]

01:15:33   people who really had a plan and buy [TS]

01:15:36   which is like we're talking about here [TS]

01:15:37   like you're the red hair girl in my [TS]

01:15:39   going to you know medical school and [TS]

01:15:40   stuff people where there are [TS]

01:15:41   dependencies to what you're going to do [TS]

01:15:43   there's time commitment [TS]

01:15:44   there is stick-to-itiveness and grit and [TS]

01:15:47   with those kinds of people a funny side [TS]

01:15:50   effect is that those are often the kind [TS]

01:15:52   of people that if the plan goes wrong [TS]

01:15:53   they very quickly have another plan [TS]

01:15:55   they're ready to stick to I think there [TS]

01:15:57   are plan people but butcher land people [TS]

01:15:59   are executing on the plan not merely [TS]

01:16:01   ruminating about the plan that's the [TS]

01:16:03   difference between them and me I feel [TS]

01:16:05   like the danger for me of a plan was [TS]

01:16:08   always that well the you know the plan [TS]

01:16:10   can go sideways right away so like you [TS]

01:16:14   know if you want to make God laugh right [TS]

01:16:16   Woody Allen's famous lines you want to [TS]

01:16:18   make God laugh tell him your plans it's [TS]

01:16:21   a pretty good assessment of where I come [TS]

01:16:24   from although you have to look at Woody [TS]

01:16:26   Allen's accomplishments and say like [TS]

01:16:27   well you had a plan yeah or at least had [TS]

01:16:30   multiple plans every time he started a [TS]

01:16:32   new film it must have been a new plan [TS]

01:16:34   but I am I am maybe one of the more [TS]

01:16:40   planless and and I come up against [TS]

01:16:45   people with a plan all the time people [TS]

01:16:47   ask me questions that suggest that they [TS]

01:16:49   think that I had a plan or that I have [TS]

01:16:52   one now not sorry yes the simplest [TS]

01:16:55   question that people ask you is like [TS]

01:16:56   well what do you want and it presumes [TS]

01:17:00   that I really want anything or that I [TS]

01:17:03   have a particular interest in one or [TS]

01:17:05   another outcome and that is a that's a [TS]

01:17:10   weird presupposition because if today I [TS]

01:17:15   followed the day where it took me and it [TS]

01:17:17   ended up that by the end of the day [TS]

01:17:19   something had something had arrived in [TS]

01:17:22   my life where it made sense for me to [TS]

01:17:23   move to Ankara Turkey I would be in I if [TS]

01:17:31   it made sense for me to do that that [TS]

01:17:34   would that them that has its own logic [TS]

01:17:36   and I would be making prepper [TS]

01:17:37   to move to Ankara uh because it doesn't [TS]

01:17:42   conflict with a plan that I have already [TS]

01:17:44   see I see um and I think there are a lot [TS]

01:17:48   of people that if at the end of the day [TS]

01:17:50   it made sense for them to move Ankara [TS]

01:17:52   they would say what no it mean it [TS]

01:17:55   doesn't make sense absolutely no [TS]

01:17:57   conflicts with my plan it makes it [TS]

01:17:59   completion to plan yeah that's right and [TS]

01:18:01   and the only reason I haven't made it [TS]

01:18:04   made like the decision to move to Turkey [TS]

01:18:09   at any point in my life is that at the [TS]

01:18:10   end of every day it never made sense and [TS]

01:18:13   I and I never made it my plan but it is [TS]

01:18:18   it's very different because I'm because [TS]

01:18:20   confronted with the question what do you [TS]

01:18:21   want my answer is always like the best [TS]

01:18:26   or most sensible option of those [TS]

01:18:28   presented and that doesn't satisfy some [TS]

01:18:32   kinds of parts to it I mean I'm [TS]

01:18:34   projecting here which is all I really [TS]

01:18:37   can do but I think again it's important [TS]

01:18:39   to distinguish between a plan which has [TS]

01:18:41   several aspects to it that are important [TS]

01:18:43   and then versus having something like a [TS]

01:18:47   lightly structured sense of hope about [TS]

01:18:50   how things will go that feels like a [TS]

01:18:52   plan but it's not really a plan that's [TS]

01:18:54   it that's an intransitive plan like [TS]

01:18:56   where you're kind of like mostly hoping [TS]

01:18:58   things turn out a certain way if I stay [TS]

01:19:00   at this job long enough surely I will [TS]

01:19:03   make more money and get promoted that's [TS]

01:19:05   maybe a silly example but I think it's a [TS]

01:19:07   common example right like if I get the [TS]

01:19:09   security of having a job plus it just [TS]

01:19:13   seems reasonable that I will move up and [TS]

01:19:15   make more money here well it's not [TS]

01:19:16   that's not exactly a plan if your plan [TS]

01:19:20   requires you not changing very much or [TS]

01:19:22   doing things by a certain time it's not [TS]

01:19:24   really a plan it's it's I mean it's just [TS]

01:19:28   doing stuff yeah I feel like you are [TS]

01:19:32   really you got to the core of it really [TS]

01:19:35   fast and I think would it this is a [TS]

01:19:39   weird thing I've discovered just very [TS]

01:19:42   recently in in like examining the [TS]

01:19:46   choices that I make [TS]

01:19:48   and it maybe relies on optimism like I [TS]

01:19:55   never would have thought of myself as [TS]

01:19:56   optimistic because I thought because I'm [TS]

01:19:59   you know a trend toward thinking darkly [TS]

01:20:03   thinking darkly about myself thinking [TS]

01:20:07   darkly about the you know the [TS]

01:20:09   contemporary world thinking darkly about [TS]

01:20:13   human interaction with one another like [TS]

01:20:15   I'm I'm I tend to be not misanthropic [TS]

01:20:18   but certainly I have my suspicions about [TS]

01:20:21   other people you're human agnostic a [TS]

01:20:23   human agnostic right I've just you know [TS]

01:20:25   like life is definitely somewhat of a [TS]

01:20:28   scramble and I embrace it but what I [TS]

01:20:31   what I realized recently is that I am an [TS]

01:20:34   optimist in that I wake up every morning [TS]

01:20:36   and assume everything is going to sort [TS]

01:20:38   of just roll like when I get in the car [TS]

01:20:42   and start the engine and imagine making [TS]

01:20:45   the trip to wherever it is that I'm I'm [TS]

01:20:47   going I don't have was that a was that [TS]

01:20:50   little toot premiere and he probably [TS]

01:20:53   didn't hear that that was the train [TS]

01:20:55   going by and they didn't like what [TS]

01:20:57   somebody was doing on the road so they [TS]

01:20:58   give a little sometimes they give a [TS]

01:21:00   little toot to out front okay you know [TS]

01:21:03   Mike is gonna prevent that showing up [TS]

01:21:07   but it's what I the day sort of unwinds [TS]

01:21:10   the way that it does you've got a [TS]

01:21:11   general to check three through the day [TS]

01:21:13   well I mean I know that I have to be [TS]

01:21:15   certain places at certain times but I am [TS]

01:21:17   i planning consists of when i have to be [TS]

01:21:20   somewhere at a certain time mostly yeah [TS]

01:21:22   but i'm operating on the assumption that [TS]

01:21:25   I'm gonna get in the car and I'm going [TS]

01:21:26   to drive to where I'm going and that [TS]

01:21:28   drive is going to be largely event free [TS]

01:21:30   I don't assume someone is going to cut [TS]

01:21:32   me off [TS]

01:21:33   I'm not afraid that I'm gonna get into a [TS]

01:21:35   crash [TS]

01:21:36   I don't worry about getting there you [TS]

01:21:39   know like late I'm not worried about [TS]

01:21:41   getting lost you know all of those [TS]

01:21:43   anxieties about what's going to happen [TS]

01:21:46   in the in the immediate future and in [TS]

01:21:50   the long-term future I just don't have I [TS]

01:21:52   assumed that everything is probably [TS]

01:21:54   going to roll and that I'm realizing now [TS]

01:21:56   is actually a kind of optimism [TS]

01:21:59   that I bring to two events I assume you [TS]

01:22:05   know when people like people said when [TS]

01:22:08   my daughter was born her mother said [TS]

01:22:11   like it's gonna cost her a million [TS]

01:22:12   dollars a year to go to college what are [TS]

01:22:14   we gonna do we should have been saving [TS]

01:22:17   money this whole time and my and I was [TS]

01:22:20   just stunned by this because my feeling [TS]

01:22:22   was all what she needs to go to college [TS]

01:22:24   when it's time to go to college we find [TS]

01:22:25   she'll go to college there'll be some [TS]

01:22:27   solution to the problem and that has [TS]

01:22:30   that has been my attitude throughout my [TS]

01:22:32   entire life and and and it is you know [TS]

01:22:35   like I know that there are listeners [TS]

01:22:37   right now who love who love it love love [TS]

01:22:40   that I have arrived here where I can now [TS]

01:22:43   make a statement about privilege and now [TS]

01:22:46   having made that statement like it is [TS]

01:22:48   also a like and maybe my optimism is [TS]

01:22:52   also a function of privilege because [TS]

01:22:54   that is the lens through which a lot of [TS]

01:22:56   people want to look at everything now [TS]

01:22:57   but I I also feel like there are a lot [TS]

01:23:02   of people whose nature like they have [TS]

01:23:06   just as much privilege as I do in the [TS]

01:23:09   world but their nature compels them to [TS]

01:23:12   be anxious about all these things that [TS]

01:23:14   they can't control the drive the other [TS]

01:23:17   drivers the whether or not they're you [TS]

01:23:20   know whether or not things are going to [TS]

01:23:23   go well all day they're anxious about [TS]

01:23:26   them and that anxiety makes choices for [TS]

01:23:30   them and their uh and and so the plan [TS]

01:23:35   helps alleviate that anxiety because [TS]

01:23:38   they know you know that there are steps [TS]

01:23:40   to follow and if the if something goes [TS]

01:23:44   sideways you know you just get get on to [TS]

01:23:46   the next step you follow the you follow [TS]

01:23:48   the plan and so I'm I am at liberty and [TS]

01:23:53   a lot of the Liberty I guess that that I [TS]

01:23:55   have or that people perceive in me is I [TS]

01:23:57   think rooted in in that like spiritual [TS]

01:24:04   confidence that it's going to turn out [TS]

01:24:08   even if I have a heart attack and die [TS]

01:24:11   tomorrow [TS]

01:24:12   that's fine it's a it's all going to [TS]

01:24:15   work out my daughter's going to be fine [TS]

01:24:17   somebody's gonna have to go through all [TS]

01:24:18   this stuff but that's I mean it'll [TS]

01:24:22   probably be my mom and she'll just put [TS]

01:24:24   it all into the dumper yeah just been at [TS]

01:24:25   all if like 20 like 25 pairs of vintage [TS]

01:24:29   Levi's that have holes in the knees she [TS]

01:24:31   doesn't see the value in them yeah [TS]

01:24:33   nicely doesn't recognize that there's a [TS]

01:24:36   lot of value there and that's fine yeah [TS]

01:24:41   I sometimes wonder if the absence of [TS]

01:24:47   anxiety feels like optimism we're like [TS]

01:24:52   you know it's funny because like you [TS]

01:24:54   know we tend to think in these sort of [TS]

01:24:56   um sort of looking for like Hegelian I [TS]

01:25:02   guess sorts of ways I don't know like [TS]

01:25:03   which I always see like the two sides [TS]

01:25:05   just bicameral approach to life and are [TS]

01:25:07   you not the minister are you a pessimist [TS]

01:25:09   it's like well you know that's really [TS]

01:25:11   very very general you know but as [TS]

01:25:14   somebody who is anxious about lots of [TS]

01:25:15   things I sometimes wonder if to repeat [TS]

01:25:18   myself if if what if not having anxiety [TS]

01:25:22   is what optimism feels like yeah or [TS]

01:25:25   maybe there isn't a distinction between [TS]

01:25:26   those things well there's a certain kind [TS]

01:25:29   of and I'm sorry to keep using this this [TS]

01:25:31   word that is a term of art and I not [TS]

01:25:33   going to be able list but there is a [TS]

01:25:36   certain kind of mania to optimism that [TS]

01:25:38   I'm very suspicious of like people who [TS]

01:25:41   are too optimistic or people who are too [TS]

01:25:43   happy are very suspicious to me they [TS]

01:25:45   just seem like they're up to something [TS]

01:25:47   or they're just not wired right like how [TS]

01:25:50   are you like this all that and there are [TS]

01:25:53   some people who are just charming and [TS]

01:25:54   that's just their personality and [TS]

01:25:55   they're not somebody who you know again [TS]

01:25:57   the absence of something makes you seem [TS]

01:25:58   like it's a thing like you just people [TS]

01:26:00   who don't bitch about everything people [TS]

01:26:02   who aren't snarky people who don't talk [TS]

01:26:03   behind other people's backs and stuff [TS]

01:26:05   like that you know I mean that's that's [TS]

01:26:07   a nice you know kind of a person I don't [TS]

01:26:09   know if that makes them still an [TS]

01:26:10   optimist but so I guess one version of [TS]

01:26:13   optimism is that you tend to see the [TS]

01:26:16   positive side of a situation that you [TS]

01:26:20   tend to assume that things will go well [TS]

01:26:22   rather than [TS]

01:26:24   that you have a kind of rosy prospect [TS]

01:26:27   about a given situation or the future in [TS]

01:26:30   general yeah and all the seems to an [TS]

01:26:33   opposite of pessimism means that roughly [TS]

01:26:34   fair to say um pessimist tends to look [TS]

01:26:42   at to pick nits with the negative side [TS]

01:26:44   of things they tend to assume that given [TS]

01:26:47   all the things being equal things will [TS]

01:26:49   probably get worse [TS]

01:26:50   yeah no that's that that doesn't [TS]

01:26:52   describe me at all it's the it's the [TS]

01:26:53   other thing [TS]

01:26:54   yeah and that but I but I'm not a [TS]

01:26:56   Pollyanna right I don't think I either [TS]

01:26:58   like what if or what if you haven't [TS]

01:27:00   liked it I don't know I just this kinds [TS]

01:27:02   of like polar things are so that's such [TS]

01:27:07   a blunt instrument right it is but it [TS]

01:27:09   it's very I mean you there there needs [TS]

01:27:13   to be a way to describe um because [TS]

01:27:19   because it's because it's one of those [TS]

01:27:21   like is the green that you see the same [TS]

01:27:23   green that I see right um you know if [TS]

01:27:27   you're having a conversation with [TS]

01:27:28   somebody about something that you're [TS]

01:27:30   undertaking and they honestly feel like [TS]

01:27:33   the chances of it failing are much [TS]

01:27:36   greater than the chances of it [TS]

01:27:37   succeeding and you feel the opposite and [TS]

01:27:39   those are just sort of native feelings [TS]

01:27:41   not based on the actual facts of the of [TS]

01:27:45   the moment but rather the intrinsic [TS]

01:27:49   interpretation of what those facts mean [TS]

01:27:52   you know like we don't have enough money [TS]

01:27:54   to do this but it's going to be fine [TS]

01:27:56   we'll find the money or we don't know [TS]

01:27:58   something likes maybe if you're a [TS]

01:28:01   entrepreneurial type and you're somebody [TS]

01:28:03   who wants to start a Patino [TS]

01:28:05   theoretically potentially very [TS]

01:28:09   profitable high value company in some [TS]

01:28:12   kind of an industry that is risky or [TS]

01:28:15   costly to get into but if you're that [TS]

01:28:18   sort of person and you decide to start a [TS]

01:28:21   company like that and then hue to a [TS]

01:28:26   developing but still very [TS]

01:28:28   well-thought-out plan like if you have a [TS]

01:28:30   plan for what you're going to do like no [TS]

01:28:33   does that make you an optimist or a [TS]

01:28:34   pessimist because they're people [TS]

01:28:36   everybody says well obviously that [TS]

01:28:37   person's an op [TS]

01:28:37   because they think they're going to be [TS]

01:28:39   that rare person who's able to pull off [TS]

01:28:41   success in this thing that's very [TS]

01:28:42   difficult to do and I would say that [TS]

01:28:44   another person might say well no they're [TS]

01:28:45   probably a pessimist because they [TS]

01:28:46   realize that in order to get the things [TS]

01:28:48   they want they have to have a [TS]

01:28:49   contingency plan and risk management [TS]

01:28:50   that gets them where they want to go [TS]

01:28:52   without assuming that everything will go [TS]

01:28:53   perfect so I don't know if either one of [TS]

01:28:55   those labels really fits in that [TS]

01:28:57   situation I don't know I mean there are [TS]

01:29:03   companies right that that began that [TS]

01:29:05   process and then somewhere down the road [TS]

01:29:07   in their development they realized that [TS]

01:29:10   what the product what they thought the [TS]

01:29:11   product was isn't the product right what [TS]

01:29:14   they discover is that the thing that [TS]

01:29:17   they were making in order to make the [TS]

01:29:18   product was the actual product and in [TS]

01:29:21   order to be that flexible I think you do [TS]

01:29:26   have to be very I think you have to have [TS]

01:29:30   a rough plan and not a strict plan and [TS]

01:29:36   that and that flexibility which isn't [TS]

01:29:40   true of most startups I guess is the [TS]

01:29:43   thing that that you know would describe [TS]

01:29:47   my approach which is like you get in [TS]

01:29:50   there and it's when we were making you [TS]

01:29:52   know it thought we were making straw [TS]

01:29:54   hats but it turns out we're making the [TS]

01:29:56   framework to make straw hats because [TS]

01:29:57   that's what the world really needs you [TS]

01:30:00   know with now we can sell that right and [TS]

01:30:02   that's interesting nothing but I'm not [TS]

01:30:04   being so so wrapped up in your plan that [TS]

01:30:08   you lose track of not only like whether [TS]

01:30:11   it's working that we expect it but that [TS]

01:30:13   you know there are things that you [TS]

01:30:14   should be picking up about how to as I [TS]

01:30:16   say pivot what you're doing yeah and I [TS]

01:30:19   think I think it is a question of is [TS]

01:30:21   your plan something that you put in [TS]

01:30:23   place in order to dispel fear or is your [TS]

01:30:26   plan a thing that you put in place in [TS]

01:30:28   order to limit uh either let either put [TS]

01:30:36   like artificial limitations on what [TS]

01:30:38   you're doing in order to keep focused or [TS]

01:30:41   limit the amount of chaos they can [TS]

01:30:46   intrude but I really do think there's a [TS]

01:30:48   difference because because you know [TS]

01:30:50   there are a lot [TS]

01:30:51   plans out there that are just to shore [TS]

01:30:54   up um the number of you know of [TS]

01:30:57   different like paralyzing anxieties [TS]

01:31:00   right like like great um and to plan [TS]

01:31:04   like almost like a form of OCD a little [TS]

01:31:06   bit yeah like I've got this I've got a [TS]

01:31:08   plan and therefore like it you know I [TS]

01:31:11   cannot be I don't I cannot know all the [TS]

01:31:15   things that are going to happen but I [TS]

01:31:17   know that I'm not going to kids get [TS]

01:31:20   derailed this way because I have a plan [TS]

01:31:23   to to account for it and my problem [TS]

01:31:26   being plan list is that I'm derailed by [TS]

01:31:27   I mean I'm literally drilled by [TS]

01:31:29   everything not literally I I often get [TS]

01:31:32   to the door of my own room [TS]

01:31:34   reach for the doorknob and then take [TS]

01:31:37   another look at the doorknob and go huh [TS]

01:31:40   interesting I never in all the years [TS]

01:31:42   noticed that about this doorknob and [TS]

01:31:44   then I then my next thought is I should [TS]

01:31:47   get a tool and start to work on that [TS]

01:31:50   doorknob I can't believe you're saying [TS]

01:31:51   this because because just this morning I [TS]

01:31:53   was putting my shoes on I was sitting on [TS]

01:31:55   the side of my bed and I noticed a part [TS]

01:31:58   of my house I never noticed before and I [TS]

01:32:00   became a little bit in trance because [TS]

01:32:01   I'd never paid any attention to the area [TS]

01:32:03   between where these two doors are and I [TS]

01:32:05   was just looking at it think I've never [TS]

01:32:07   really looked at this I've never really [TS]

01:32:08   looked at the nails in the paneling I've [TS]

01:32:11   never really noticed like you know and I [TS]

01:32:14   felt it felt very strange it felt like [TS]

01:32:17   something from West world you know we're [TS]

01:32:20   like you know it doesn't look anything [TS]

01:32:21   to me like I certainly look a this is a [TS]

01:32:24   very minor part of my house that I've [TS]

01:32:25   never given any thought to and that's no [TS]

01:32:28   door always been there are there gnomes [TS]

01:32:31   coming in and they're not my own [TS]

01:32:34   perception so much now there's a there's [TS]

01:32:35   a quote that I have quoted many many [TS]

01:32:37   times and I just took the time to [TS]

01:32:38   actually look it up and I want to [TS]

01:32:39   provide it in full for once this is [TS]

01:32:43   actually a quote that is an actual thing [TS]

01:32:45   that was actually said by an actual [TS]

01:32:46   person that was not Mark Twain this is [TS]

01:32:48   um very happily Abraham Lincoln yeah you [TS]

01:32:53   got Carl Sandburg now this is a [TS]

01:32:56   Eisenhower in 1957 I tell the story to [TS]

01:32:59   illustrate the truth of the statement I [TS]

01:33:01   heard long ago in the army plans are [TS]

01:33:03   worthless but planning is [TS]

01:33:04   everything there's a very great [TS]

01:33:06   distinction because when you are [TS]

01:33:07   planning for an emergency you must start [TS]

01:33:09   with this one thing the very definition [TS]

01:33:11   of emergency is that it is unexpected [TS]

01:33:14   therefore it is not going to happen in [TS]

01:33:16   the way that you are planning plans are [TS]

01:33:19   worthless but planning is everything [TS]

01:33:20   what a great quote yeah yes and that is [TS]

01:33:26   what's missing for me I do not have [TS]

01:33:29   plans and that is what makes me feel [TS]

01:33:32   that I'm at Liberty gets more applicant [TS]

01:33:34   on that I think you're nominated you're [TS]

01:33:36   more complicated than that because it [TS]

01:33:37   isn't that you like a plan it seems to [TS]

01:33:39   me but you have a nine sensation that [TS]

01:33:42   you're not sure what you want that [TS]

01:33:43   destination to be to even plan for yeah [TS]

01:33:48   we like that in which which if true I [TS]

01:33:50   said he can't you can't just have a plan [TS]

01:33:54   to just you know what you could I mean [TS]

01:33:55   you can sit around and move you know [TS]

01:33:57   make Thomas train tracks all day long [TS]

01:33:59   but like ordinarily you would think of a [TS]

01:34:01   plan as something that you execute in [TS]

01:34:02   the service of a given goal over time [TS]

01:34:04   with a given budget least as a project [TS]

01:34:06   management that manager that's how I [TS]

01:34:07   would think about it yeah well so for [TS]

01:34:09   instance about five years ago six years [TS]

01:34:12   ago I was standing around with my mom [TS]

01:34:14   whose very plan oriented and she said [TS]

01:34:18   look here's a plan for you why don't you [TS]

01:34:21   why don't you just decide to make a [TS]

01:34:23   million dollars like you have made money [TS]

01:34:27   and bursts before that in ways that [TS]

01:34:32   suggests that you would be able to make [TS]

01:34:35   a million dollars if you set your mind [TS]

01:34:37   to it because you do you throw some [TS]

01:34:40   stuff off and then some money comes and [TS]

01:34:43   then you live on it for a while and then [TS]

01:34:47   when it runs out you're like oh shit I [TS]

01:34:48   should do something and you do something [TS]

01:34:50   else you toss something else off and [TS]

01:34:51   then you know and money comes in for a [TS]

01:34:53   while but what if you decided that your [TS]

01:34:56   number one plan was just to make [TS]

01:34:59   $1,000,000 that's it like you would just [TS]

01:35:01   do whatever it took to do this to make [TS]

01:35:04   this $1,000,000 and then you would have [TS]

01:35:06   1 million dollars and after that you [TS]

01:35:10   could say that that was the goal you'd [TS]

01:35:11   accomplished and you could do whatever [TS]

01:35:12   the hell you wanted but you would have [TS]

01:35:13   this million dollars [TS]

01:35:16   and I said huh interesting and I went [TS]

01:35:19   around and I chewed on that for a while [TS]

01:35:20   like that seems like a that is an [TS]

01:35:23   example of a plan that doesn't restrict [TS]

01:35:27   me very much you know it just gives me a [TS]

01:35:32   reason it's not a plan or a goal I guess [TS]

01:35:35   it's a goal I guess it's a goal like [TS]

01:35:38   that is that our goal might be to land a [TS]

01:35:44   man on the moon and bring him home [TS]

01:35:46   safely within the next nine years that's [TS]

01:35:48   a goal that the plan to get that to [TS]

01:35:50   happen is a pretty different animal yeah [TS]

01:35:53   right and but but but the goal would [TS]

01:35:56   then would then necessitate various [TS]

01:35:59   plans right I would have to yeah what is [TS]

01:36:02   this not a lot ends a lot of outs a lot [TS]

01:36:04   of what-have-yous if you want to make a [TS]

01:36:11   million dollars you probably gonna have [TS]

01:36:13   to do some things you know again you [TS]

01:36:15   gotta move so it's like having a baby [TS]

01:36:16   when you're 40 you have to move some [TS]

01:36:17   things or yeah upstairs Downstairs [TS]

01:36:20   change a little bit about your about [TS]

01:36:22   your budgeting and invoicing system you [TS]

01:36:24   figure out a way to make a million [TS]

01:36:26   dollars you start planning the things [TS]

01:36:27   that you're gonna buy right I mean it's [TS]

01:36:30   a lot do you you probably want to write [TS]

01:36:32   it down maybe get a legal pad I think I [TS]

01:36:34   think you would I mean I think in my [TS]

01:36:36   case what what she was trying to do is [TS]

01:36:38   she said you've got all these projects [TS]

01:36:39   but the all you have is the only reason [TS]

01:36:44   you would complete any one of those [TS]

01:36:45   projects right now is just to have the [TS]

01:36:48   satisfaction of having created a project [TS]

01:36:50   and yet you get it seems like equal [TS]

01:36:53   satisfaction by just staring at a [TS]

01:36:55   doorknob all day like it doesn't seem to [TS]

01:36:57   be more gratifying to you to complete a [TS]

01:37:00   record album than it does to just sit [TS]

01:37:02   with it like the other day I got down on [TS]

01:37:04   my hands and knees at my dishwasher and [TS]

01:37:07   I took two toothpicks and I cleaned all [TS]

01:37:10   the little nozzles of my dishwasher out [TS]

01:37:13   two toothpicks I was there for you know [TS]

01:37:16   for half the day just humming along putt [TS]

01:37:19   putt sounds very meditative yeah I was [TS]

01:37:22   making I was having success I was [TS]

01:37:23   successfully clean the dishwasher works [TS]

01:37:25   better now nice and I and I felt like [TS]

01:37:28   using the toothpicks as tools was also [TS]

01:37:30   like this is fun I bet that's a that's a [TS]

01:37:32   that's a thought technology yeah I could [TS]

01:37:34   have found other tools but these are the [TS]

01:37:36   tools that I found you go to war with [TS]

01:37:39   the tools you have yes map tools you [TS]

01:37:41   want as Abraham Lincoln said and she [TS]

01:37:45   said you know she said it if if [TS]

01:37:48   completing like a large-scale project [TS]

01:37:50   doesn't really scratch any hitch in you [TS]

01:37:53   that's any different than just waking up [TS]

01:37:55   in the morning and saying you know what [TS]

01:37:56   I'm gonna do today I'm gonna wear all [TS]

01:37:58   pink she said you'll never get any of [TS]

01:38:01   these things done what if the what if [TS]

01:38:04   the overarching thing was not finished [TS]

01:38:08   this project for its own sake but [TS]

01:38:10   finished this project as part of this [TS]

01:38:12   larger project very simple one-sentence [TS]

01:38:15   project make a million dollars right and [TS]

01:38:18   and it was the first kind of [TS]

01:38:21   over-the-top overlay that I'd had in a [TS]

01:38:27   long long time and I think the only [TS]

01:38:29   other one that I ever had was one that I [TS]

01:38:30   got when I was 16 or something that was [TS]

01:38:32   just like be famous and a very big man [TS]

01:38:36   on campus that's right big man on campus [TS]

01:38:39   he ran out on the blotter rotted wrote [TS]

01:38:42   it on the blotter and then everything I [TS]

01:38:43   did that year was under this Lake does [TS]

01:38:46   this help me be the big man on campus [TS]

01:38:48   yeah I think it does like every I mean [TS]

01:38:50   even sitting and monkeying with this [TS]

01:38:52   doorknob is part of that I get I guess [TS]

01:38:55   but since that time I didn't I never had [TS]

01:38:59   another like uh I never had another tall [TS]

01:39:02   flag I just had I just had a forest of [TS]

01:39:05   small flags so I have not still fully [TS]

01:39:11   embraced they like to make a million [TS]

01:39:14   dollars a million of them that's a [TS]

01:39:18   that's a lot of dollars I said it's a [TS]

01:39:20   very clear metric yeah and and the [TS]

01:39:24   reason my mom said a million dollars is [TS]

01:39:26   that she has this she does this social [TS]

01:39:28   she had this lifelong thing she said to [TS]

01:39:30   me at one point your father spent his [TS]

01:39:34   whole life thinking that success was to [TS]

01:39:37   have $50,000 in the bank if you had [TS]

01:39:41   50,000 on $50,000 metal [TS]

01:39:43   not something else in 1964 paid up on [TS]

01:39:46   everything and that that was free and [TS]

01:39:48   clear [TS]

01:39:49   yeah yep you had 50,000 bucks in the [TS]

01:39:51   bank in it if you had that it was smooth [TS]

01:39:53   sailing from then on and she said in his [TS]

01:39:56   entire life you net he never ever ever [TS]

01:39:59   had $50,000 in the bank and he just [TS]

01:40:04   couldn't put it together because as soon [TS]

01:40:07   as he had some money in the bank he [TS]

01:40:09   spent it on something he was like oh [TS]

01:40:11   shit you know I'm gonna buy a boat or [TS]

01:40:13   whatever and it was just like no just [TS]

01:40:15   stop just keep doing your $50,000 in the [TS]

01:40:19   bank thing and so in my mom's mind if [TS]

01:40:24   you had a million million dollars and [TS]

01:40:26   didn't tell a soul [TS]

01:40:27   he wouldn't say nothing about it to no [TS]

01:40:29   one because as soon as they see it there [TS]

01:40:31   your money gets stole hmm no her idea [TS]

01:40:35   was that if you had a million dollars [TS]

01:40:38   you could live on the interest sure you [TS]

01:40:41   become like their own endowment yeah you [TS]

01:40:44   get 5% interest you get $50,000 a year [TS]

01:40:47   and free money and then that becomes [TS]

01:40:50   like the fear foundation and so you [TS]

01:40:53   never touch the you never touch the [TS]

01:40:54   million dollars you just get this steady [TS]

01:40:56   sort of five six percent interest you [TS]

01:40:59   you know and and I think she originally [TS]

01:41:02   conceived of this plan back when there [TS]

01:41:04   was like the interest rate was 14% I [TS]

01:41:06   could see yourself a certificate of [TS]

01:41:07   deposit Yeah right [TS]

01:41:09   right you know you buy some bond some [TS]

01:41:12   t-bills whatever that's our and and [TS]

01:41:15   through and in her logic in her mind if [TS]

01:41:19   you had 1 million dollars which to a lot [TS]

01:41:22   of people nowadays even people that do [TS]

01:41:27   not have anywhere close to any of that [TS]

01:41:29   kind of money but but when we imagine [TS]

01:41:31   being wealthy yeah a million dollars [TS]

01:41:35   doesn't seem like wealthy now it's you [TS]

01:41:37   know they're you can't buy a house in [TS]

01:41:38   Seattle for less than six hundred [TS]

01:41:39   thousand dollars now yeah but 1 million [TS]

01:41:43   dollars actually represents like you [TS]

01:41:46   could live on that the rest of your life [TS]

01:41:48   or it could it could certainly keep you [TS]

01:41:50   comforts of your life some some [TS]

01:41:52   right right I mean certainly if you move [TS]

01:41:54   to Thailand or something [TS]

01:41:55   Thailand yeah but even living in even if [TS]

01:41:58   I had a million dollar Steichen continue [TS]

01:42:01   to do this make podcasts and put out [TS]

01:42:04   records every 10 years I would have to [TS]

01:42:07   be I would have to put out a record I [TS]

01:42:09   think in order to accomplish making a [TS]

01:42:10   million dollars now should be listen [TS]

01:42:12   okay you write that down put that put [TS]

01:42:13   that in the legal pad that should be [TS]

01:42:14   part of the plan make a record that's [TS]

01:42:15   part of the plan make a record and and [TS]

01:42:18   find a way you know Ted Leo just got a [TS]

01:42:20   hundred and sixty thousand dollars in a [TS]

01:42:22   Kickstarter for his record which I just [TS]

01:42:26   decided that yeah that's why I didn't I [TS]

01:42:28   did the the the Jonathan think to his [TS]

01:42:31   records already done [TS]

01:42:32   he made it at home like the hundred [TS]

01:42:34   sixty thousand dollars is part of [TS]

01:42:36   putting the record out and it's also [TS]

01:42:37   just like paying him for the record this [TS]

01:42:39   is a distinction I had not heard put [TS]

01:42:41   this I'm so out of the loop I hadn't [TS]

01:42:43   heard the distinction made until this [TS]

01:42:44   week who was talking about this [TS]

01:42:47   oh hello internet podcast talking about [TS]

01:42:50   the difference between and I forgive me [TS]

01:42:52   if I'm mangling this but basically the [TS]

01:42:54   distinction between being a consumer of [TS]

01:42:57   the product and a funder of the [TS]

01:43:00   production which i think is such an [TS]

01:43:02   interesting distinction because like [TS]

01:43:04   obviously historically you've been you [TS]

01:43:06   voted with your wallet by buying the [TS]

01:43:08   finished product but that the on the [TS]

01:43:10   model today is much more along the lines [TS]

01:43:13   of well maybe a much smaller but more [TS]

01:43:15   generous group of people it is hoped [TS]

01:43:17   will fund the production of whatever it [TS]

01:43:18   is you want to make that's where you get [TS]

01:43:20   into stuff like patreon things like that [TS]

01:43:22   interesting I mean I that sounds dumb [TS]

01:43:24   and obvious but like that's a pretty [TS]

01:43:26   different distinction rather than well [TS]

01:43:27   gosh I sure hope the economy for how you [TS]

01:43:29   get paid for streaming vastly improves [TS]

01:43:32   in the next 10 years I mean it's [TS]

01:43:36   completely novel to us but when I look [TS]

01:43:42   at the money that I made from any given [TS]

01:43:46   album just in terms of album sales like [TS]

01:43:49   I was thinking you know I we played this [TS]

01:43:51   show the other day which was a fun show [TS]

01:43:52   and inevitably as you as you do you put [TS]

01:43:56   something like that on the internet and [TS]

01:43:58   then you get 500 comments from people [TS]

01:43:59   like come play s in Germany right it's [TS]

01:44:03   been years since it's been years since [TS]

01:44:05   you played [TS]

01:44:06   fucking you know uh like worms gets it [TS]

01:44:10   comes from you comes from it comes from [TS]

01:44:13   such a nice and such a generous place [TS]

01:44:17   but it's still all I can do not to [TS]

01:44:19   respond to that with a little bit of [TS]

01:44:21   snark not to be mean because and that's [TS]

01:44:24   why I don't say it I don't want to be [TS]

01:44:25   mean but when I say hey we're having a [TS]

01:44:26   comic meetup you know near my house in [TS]

01:44:30   on this doesn't such day people say oh [TS]

01:44:32   you should come to warms bottom West [TS]

01:44:34   Virginian do that here I do a lot of [TS]

01:44:37   things sure welcome to Wiesbaden I'll do [TS]

01:44:40   okay [TS]

01:44:41   dust dust comic Klein of dust meter sure [TS]

01:44:45   I'll do that let me just put that on my [TS]

01:44:46   card [TS]

01:44:47   let me just dumping yeah yeah let me [TS]

01:44:50   just let me get somebody else to take of [TS]

01:44:52   my daughter every afternoon for the next [TS]

01:44:54   ten days oh I'll just have my wife do [TS]

01:44:57   that she she has a big lady job where [TS]

01:45:00   she goes in office but I'll say honey [TS]

01:45:01   here's the things I'm wanted I've [TS]

01:45:03   received the Merlin signal has been shot [TS]

01:45:05   into the Gotham City sky I am now needed [TS]

01:45:08   in Wiesbaden [TS]

01:45:09   I see don't say that except here amongst [TS]

01:45:12   friends but no I mean like you know you [TS]

01:45:15   know what here's the thing anybody who [TS]

01:45:16   wants us to do this podcast where they [TS]

01:45:19   live we will totally do that that's [TS]

01:45:21   something like one thing that we ask [TS]

01:45:24   that's right that we not exactly right [TS]

01:45:27   yet in order to do it is not super [TS]

01:45:30   complicated well and that is what that's [TS]

01:45:33   what's crazy if I look at the money of [TS]

01:45:36   because I toured extensively right and [TS]

01:45:39   there were a lot and a lot of times I [TS]

01:45:41   did go to Wiesbaden and then came home [TS]

01:45:44   at the end of six weeks and after I paid [TS]

01:45:49   everybody I had made two thousand [TS]

01:45:53   dollars right and it was like ah look [TS]

01:45:59   you know that you're like you become [TS]

01:46:02   your own company store right you're [TS]

01:46:04   paying from the infrastructure of doing [TS]

01:46:06   all that you're you're funny it out of [TS]

01:46:07   your pocket up front hoping nothing goes [TS]

01:46:09   wrong hoping the van doesn't explode [TS]

01:46:11   right right and and you're doing it [TS]

01:46:15   or you're doing it because the promise [TS]

01:46:17   is [TS]

01:46:19   you know you are being promised by a you [TS]

01:46:25   know by a system that if you do that [TS]

01:46:28   enough that you the word will get out [TS]

01:46:32   and you will and then the and then you [TS]

01:46:34   will make $1,000,000 something good in [TS]

01:46:38   life to not count on too many promises [TS]

01:46:40   that come to you via a system a system [TS]

01:46:43   right so for six years I went out and I [TS]

01:46:47   went to Muenster and I went to Dresden [TS]

01:46:52   and I played my songs for the people in [TS]

01:46:55   those places that came to hear them and [TS]

01:46:57   we had a wonderful time together and it [TS]

01:47:00   was awesome and I ate a lot of pretzels [TS]

01:47:02   and I ate a lot of sausages with mustard [TS]

01:47:05   on them and I made really good friends [TS]

01:47:07   in those places and I loved to see all [TS]

01:47:10   those things and feel like a citizen of [TS]

01:47:14   the world but at the end of the day if I [TS]

01:47:17   played one show in Seattle I made more [TS]

01:47:21   money than that entire tour and so I [TS]

01:47:23   truly was being paid in experience which [TS]

01:47:27   is a thing that gets old after a while [TS]

01:47:30   uh you can't you can't actually can't go [TS]

01:47:33   to the bank and cash exposure no and [TS]

01:47:36   even if even if you take all of our [TS]

01:47:39   American tours by the end of our long [TS]

01:47:41   career as a touring band not the longest [TS]

01:47:45   career but you know uh ten years of it [TS]

01:47:47   uh the shows that we played in Chicago [TS]

01:47:51   boss'd [TS]

01:47:52   as well not even Boston but yeah kind of [TS]

01:47:54   Boston Chicago Boston New York uh West [TS]

01:47:59   Virginia [TS]

01:48:00   Austin LA San Francisco and Seattle they [TS]

01:48:03   were the shows and everything else even [TS]

01:48:07   even when we got to a point where we [TS]

01:48:09   were getting paid pretty well for an [TS]

01:48:11   indie band everything else was fucking [TS]

01:48:12   gas money and if we had just if we had [TS]

01:48:16   just gotten in an airplane and flown to [TS]

01:48:17   those five two to eight cities and [TS]

01:48:21   played our shows oh we probably would [TS]

01:48:23   have made a big bout the same because [TS]

01:48:25   flying there spending one night in a [TS]

01:48:26   hotel and coming home is the same as [TS]

01:48:28   spending three days try [TS]

01:48:31   there and rains but and that's and [TS]

01:48:33   that's what the the presidents were able [TS]

01:48:37   to do at scale right was that whole like [TS]

01:48:39   drop in for a Saturday night show with a [TS]

01:48:42   really big audience [TS]

01:48:43   yeah the presidents could fly to [TS]

01:48:45   Stockholm make $40,000 and fly home and [TS]

01:48:49   to them you know does what it was [TS]

01:48:52   basically was we're going to spend 30 [TS]

01:48:56   hours doing this and for 30 hours we [TS]

01:48:59   each get fifteen thousand dollars so uh [TS]

01:49:03   ready go [TS]

01:49:04   and even that ended up being too much [TS]

01:49:08   work for for them you know they were [TS]

01:49:10   just like now that's that's 30 hours [TS]

01:49:13   that I'd rather spend doing something [TS]

01:49:14   else and we didn't you know we didn't [TS]

01:49:18   have that option we had to do those [TS]

01:49:21   shows but it but it's true of my record [TS]

01:49:24   sales too if you look at the record [TS]

01:49:26   sales over the course when I pretend to [TS]

01:49:29   fall came out in 2003 between two that I [TS]

01:49:32   between 2003 and now I have the data to [TS]

01:49:37   say how many dollars that record has [TS]

01:49:40   produced for me in toto all of the [TS]

01:49:44   records I've sold from the first one I [TS]

01:49:47   sold out of the back of the truck to a [TS]

01:49:49   girl in Milwaukee Wisconsin to the you [TS]

01:49:52   know to the download that it probably [TS]

01:49:54   happened today and if you think about [TS]

01:49:58   Kickstarter or patreon and you think [TS]

01:50:02   about the successful versions of that I [TS]

01:50:05   could make that amount of money from [TS]

01:50:09   those funding sources exclusively you [TS]

01:50:14   know if Ted Leo makes 160 thousand [TS]

01:50:16   dollars on his patreon or his uh his bid [TS]

01:50:18   what should I call it his Kickstarter [TS]

01:50:21   that is more money than he would have [TS]

01:50:25   made putting that album out on a label [TS]

01:50:27   and touring it for two years and so you [TS]

01:50:32   go Wow okay [TS]

01:50:35   it truly is if you can do a successful [TS]

01:50:38   one I mean in the end the terror is that [TS]

01:50:40   I would put up a Kickstarter for my new [TS]

01:50:42   album and then make eleven thousand [TS]

01:50:44   dollars [TS]

01:50:44   and then it would be like okay I guess [TS]

01:50:47   selfies at the trunk of my car [TS]

01:50:49   hi ho hi ho yeah right like oh maybe [TS]

01:50:52   that's a got to do another thing to make [TS]

01:50:54   a million dollars but it is it is not [TS]

01:50:57   part of the rules that had to be only [TS]

01:50:58   one thing you're allowed to get there [TS]

01:51:00   right huh yeah [TS]

01:51:03   then it'd be like well yes I gotta write [TS]

01:51:04   a novel whoa another 11 grand okay I'm [TS]

01:51:07   really gonna have to kick it into high [TS]

01:51:08   gear here if I'm gonna make a million [TS]

01:51:11   dollars but but you know this whole [TS]

01:51:14   thing of like for the last 10 years of [TS]

01:51:17   the music business of saying like well [TS]

01:51:19   you know bands really sell t-shirts or [TS]

01:51:21   they really sell kazoos that's what the [TS]

01:51:22   real business model is and you're just [TS]

01:51:24   like no fuck you but now it really is [TS]

01:51:27   possible to make 160 thousand dollars [TS]

01:51:31   just on your Kickstarter and I guess [TS]

01:51:33   that there's some fulfillment [TS]

01:51:35   he asked to do he's promised people that [TS]

01:51:38   he'll come play piano in their living [TS]

01:51:39   room or he's done said midnight I didn't [TS]

01:51:42   follow the Kickstarter very carefully [TS]

01:51:43   but right if they're there it's like at [TS]

01:51:46   the $5,000 level I give you my car yeah [TS]

01:51:49   at the $10,000 level like I will I will [TS]

01:51:52   donate sperm to the to the to the sperm [TS]

01:51:56   bank of your choice or whatever it's a [TS]

01:51:58   nice gesture [TS]

01:51:58   you know what I'll put that in my kicks [TS]

01:52:00   to them put that on the legal pad listen [TS]

01:52:03   well donate sperm the $7 level I will [TS]

01:52:07   give you two vials of sperm and you can [TS]

01:52:11   do whatever you want with them will you [TS]

01:52:12   deliver them personally yeah I'll come [TS]

01:52:15   to your house you can tell I was gonna [TS]

01:52:18   give it to you I'll go into your [TS]

01:52:20   bathroom for 15 minutes yeah and then I [TS]

01:52:23   will give you a coke Campbellsburg [TS]

01:52:29   is your groaning I love my fans [TS]