Hello Internet

H.I. #82: God of Bees


00:00:00   are you ready for my prepared statement

00:00:01   about the news Brady have you been right

00:00:04   it's like what you've been doing the

00:00:05   last three or four days just just just

00:00:08   handing it that's right yeah I have a

00:00:10   have an opening statement about the news

00:00:12   okay there's 20,000 words and I will I

00:00:16   will truck no direct response afterward

00:00:20   put a big piece of gaff tape over my

00:00:23   mouth

00:00:24   I have penguin news this is gonna be

00:00:28   penguin ooh

00:00:29   a shaggy dog story okay I'll get

00:00:32   comfortable and I've thought about how

00:00:34   to tell that but I've decided to tell it

00:00:36   chronologically so you can experience it

00:00:39   as I experienced it so very very quick

00:00:42   background ER for people who are new to

00:00:44   the podcast a couple of years back now I

00:00:46   think it was gray and I were involved in

00:00:48   a fundraising event at Bristol Zoo

00:00:50   raising money for South African penguins

00:00:53   which I found I actually have the

00:00:54   nickname jackass penguins because of the

00:00:56   noise they make which was new

00:00:58   information to me okay anyway and to

00:01:02   thank us for helping with the

00:01:03   fundraising the zoo took the very

00:01:06   unusual step of naming one of their

00:01:08   newborn penguins

00:01:09   CGP grey this was only the second time

00:01:12   they've ever named a penguin the other

00:01:14   one that has a name is the generic one

00:01:16   that anyone who sponsors penguins gets a

00:01:18   certificate about so having a name was a

00:01:20   big deal we were very grateful and I

00:01:23   promised to sort of follow the Penguins

00:01:25   progress and I have to admit besides

00:01:27   getting some video of its first weigh-in

00:01:30   and revealing the fact that the penguin

00:01:32   was a lady mm-hmm that was pretty much

00:01:35   the last we spoke about

00:01:36   CGP grey the lady penguin yes you gave

00:01:40   me a bit of a ribbing about not

00:01:41   following it very closely but anyway

00:01:43   only because you said you were going to

00:01:46   take up the mantle of regular reports

00:01:48   otherwise I would I would not have

00:01:49   ribbed you okay Hey look I deserve I

00:01:52   deserved it I'll take it you got you got

00:01:55   me anyway some news came to hand a few

00:01:58   weeks ago who was spotted by the Thames

00:02:00   not by us that as a result of a tragedy

00:02:04   in the capital of Georgia city called

00:02:06   Tbilisi where there was serious serious

00:02:09   flooding in which many humans died but

00:02:11   it also was very very devastating

00:02:13   for their zoo they lost many many of

00:02:16   their animals and as a result the people

00:02:19   that oversee zoos in Europe asked all

00:02:21   the other European zoos to help them

00:02:23   repopulate their animal population and

00:02:27   Bristol Zoo was kind of requestor but

00:02:31   also kind of instructed because how it

00:02:33   works to give a certain number of their

00:02:36   penguins to Tbilisi zoo which Bristol

00:02:41   Zoo did this came to our attention and

00:02:43   of course the first thing we wondered

00:02:45   was was CGP grey among the Penguins

00:02:47   shipped to Tbilisi and we didn't know

00:02:50   there's the background what has happened

00:02:54   since here we go okay it was story all

00:02:58   right so the story has not yet begun the

00:03:00   story hasn't again that was the vectra's

00:03:03   was the background okay yeah now in true

00:03:06   investigative nature some some of the

00:03:08   more zealous fans of the podcast started

00:03:12   trying to make contact with Tbilisi Zoo

00:03:14   and I saw on reddit someone had

00:03:16   contacted the zoo through Facebook and

00:03:18   said is CGP grey the penguin with you

00:03:21   this is easy to find out because CGP

00:03:24   grey the penguin has a name tag or a

00:03:26   number tag on the wing a two oh five

00:03:29   eight three right it's the wing number

00:03:31   anyway so you could look up databases in

00:03:33   there and the word from Tbilisi was

00:03:34   apparently this was their answer I

00:03:36   couldn't read it because it wasn't in

00:03:38   English but their answer was CGP grey

00:03:40   the penguin is not here apparently the

00:03:43   zoo has a popular penguin that it wasn't

00:03:45   willing to send presumably CGP grey so

00:03:48   CGP grey is still in bristol uh-huh and

00:03:50   there was all chat on reddit about her

00:03:52   and it was problem solved and well done

00:03:54   and a second person said actually my

00:03:56   mum's friend works at Tbilisi Zoo

00:03:59   amazingly they also made some inquiries

00:04:02   and confirmed that CGP grey wasn't set

00:04:04   okay I had been trying to contact

00:04:08   Bristol Zoo I'd sent some emails to

00:04:10   various people in their media department

00:04:13   I wasn't getting replies I wasn't happy

00:04:17   about not getting replies you were not

00:04:19   getting the reserved don't say it I just

00:04:22   want to say cuz I like I know that tone

00:04:24   of voice I like these people are not

00:04:26   responding to my emails quick

00:04:27   enough I know I know how you get pretty

00:04:30   anyway and then I thought this is not

00:04:33   the brainy way to be crowdsourcing

00:04:36   hearsay on reddit or to be waiting for

00:04:39   press people to maybe reply and maybe

00:04:42   not especially when the zoo is only 20

00:04:43   minutes from my house so I this was a

00:04:46   call to arms and I thought I'm not just

00:04:48   gonna sit here I'm gonna be a man of

00:04:50   action I'm going to go to the zoo I'm

00:04:52   going to find the penguin so I got my

00:04:56   camera with my long lens Wow

00:04:58   so okay so I could zoom in I've got a

00:05:00   special new super long lens and you know

00:05:03   I'm not going to deny I made bit of a

00:05:05   hoo-ha on Twitter and on snapchat about

00:05:08   it made a big deal saying that's it I'm

00:05:10   coming to the zoo this ends today I said

00:05:13   I took pictures on the way as I crossed

00:05:15   the suspension bridge and I was going in

00:05:17   so I'm you know I was I was not quiet

00:05:19   about the fact I was doing this were you

00:05:21   making

00:05:21   snapchat story about it were you doing

00:05:24   that I was I wasn't a snapchat story I'm

00:05:26   okay lie so I arrived at the zoo half

00:05:29   expecting them to be waiting for me

00:05:31   right with a red Carson head I

00:05:33   understand yeah well no not necessarily

00:05:34   the red car but I thought maybe it would

00:05:36   be a bit more defensive than that the

00:05:38   people on Twitter had seen my comments

00:05:40   and it's at all well we've seen your

00:05:42   email and we're going to get back to you

00:05:43   and I'm like now you've had your chance

00:05:45   and I've played on went straight to the

00:05:48   penguin enclosure long-lens uh-huh

00:05:51   and actually it was feeding time when I

00:05:53   got there and I said to the woman

00:05:54   feeding Oh have you said I'm looking for

00:05:56   a specific penguin and she was like she

00:05:59   wasn't having any of it she was like oh

00:06:00   I'm not the usual penguin keeper I can't

00:06:02   help ya she could hey I just love I love

00:06:05   the idea from this person's perspective

00:06:07   that like a crazy man with a telephoto

00:06:09   lens like I'm here for a specific

00:06:11   penguin yeah yeah anyway so I got out

00:06:16   the long lens and I started zooming in

00:06:18   on and then there's loads of penguins

00:06:20   there yeah then it turns out it turns

00:06:23   out even with the long lens it was quite

00:06:24   hard to read the numbers and also the

00:06:26   penguins don't make your job any easier

00:06:28   like they face the way they want to face

00:06:30   branding that's it that's the way they

00:06:31   can her face so I was always waiting for

00:06:33   penguins to turn around but sometimes

00:06:35   the wing tag is flat the wrong way

00:06:36   around and it's in there like wing pit

00:06:38   like in that

00:06:40   okay and so for those ones I had to wait

00:06:41   for them to flap their wings to even get

00:06:43   a look at the number some of them didn't

00:06:45   seem to have a number they just had like

00:06:47   a a wing band with no number written on

00:06:49   ER and I was wearing that might be CGP

00:06:51   grey huh and just as I was giving up

00:06:53   hope this penguin steps out from behind

00:06:56   the wall and I look at the number that's

00:06:58   the number I've been looking for ends

00:06:59   with the three and it's got all the

00:07:01   thing I start taking loads and loads of

00:07:03   pictures of it it even starts posing for

00:07:05   me I go onto snapchat and say look who

00:07:07   it is and I like put a fun thing and I

00:07:09   you know make a big deal that I've found

00:07:11   the penguin huh then I think I haven't

00:07:13   got that I haven't got the killer photo

00:07:14   yet of the wing number on the thing so I

00:07:17   decided to get one more number before

00:07:19   leaving the zoo and when I go for that

00:07:21   photo and I look closely it turns out

00:07:23   that's not the number that uh it's out

00:07:25   by one digit it looked just like the

00:07:28   number but it was out but I double

00:07:29   checked I found my mistake okay so they

00:07:32   actually do just number them

00:07:33   sequentially they don't have check

00:07:34   digits or anything like that I don't

00:07:36   know this was a very similar number so

00:07:38   anyway back to square one some of them

00:07:40   are sleeping in their little hatches and

00:07:42   things I'm having to wait for them to

00:07:43   come out I must have been there 45

00:07:45   minutes and then suddenly these two

00:07:48   people appear behind me and this is a

00:07:51   older man and a younger lady who it

00:07:53   turns out is the social media manager

00:07:55   for you know the Twitter person and like

00:07:58   the head of communications with the zoo

00:07:59   and they're like oh you're Brady and I'm

00:08:03   like yeah I am

00:08:03   I was really friendly really friendly

00:08:05   yes I am I'm here looking for CTP great

00:08:08   the penguin and they're like yeah to me

00:08:11   you know can we have a chair and I'm

00:08:12   like yeah yeah sure we can late and they

00:08:14   wanted to take me away from the penguin

00:08:15   enclosure and I'm like oh we can chat

00:08:17   here and they're like no no let's go for

00:08:18   a chat

00:08:19   oh they took me ahead of the enclosure

00:08:21   we went cells bench right they want you

00:08:24   to have a seats there for a moment

00:08:26   before we talk to you yeah okay mmm and

00:08:28   I say before we go like is my penguin

00:08:30   there I want to take a picture of CGP

00:08:32   Grey and they say no it was you know in

00:08:33   the gone to Tbilisi and I'm like oh

00:08:35   that's great I thought they was scared

00:08:37   that I was going to be upset they'd sent

00:08:38   it to Tbilisi mm-hmm so I said don't

00:08:40   worry like gray and I'll be really happy

00:08:43   if it's going to timbala see we think

00:08:44   it's a really good story etc etc you

00:08:46   know we like that you know we'd like the

00:08:48   story then Merc head of communication

00:08:50   says well unfortunately CGP grey the

00:08:53   ping

00:08:54   and died on the trip to Tbilisi there

00:09:04   were 19 penguins sent three of them

00:09:06   actually died on this trip and one of

00:09:08   them CGP grey the penguin and I tell you

00:09:11   I have never I cannot think of a weird

00:09:14   time in my life then sitting on this

00:09:16   bench at the zoo with these two zoo

00:09:18   employees either side of me and it was

00:09:21   like in the movies like when the surgeon

00:09:22   comes out and says yeah that's that's

00:09:24   what it feels like that's what it feels

00:09:25   like it was just like that or like when

00:09:27   the police come and it was like and it

00:09:29   was really difficult because like they

00:09:31   would devastate to have to do this I

00:09:33   felt really bad for them and I was kind

00:09:36   of having to console them and I was

00:09:38   saying putting the armor inside don't

00:09:40   worry about it look you know this these

00:09:41   things happen and they're like we're so

00:09:43   sorry we should have told you we should

00:09:44   have told you we were moving it and we

00:09:46   should have told you what happened and

00:09:47   we're really you know we really said

00:09:48   that the Penguins died and was this

00:09:50   really weird thing and then they got

00:09:52   like the head of birds for the zoo to

00:09:55   come and meet me and give me like the

00:09:56   full story of everything that happened

00:09:58   and his assistant and we're having this

00:10:00   big long talk and we ended up talking

00:10:02   for like half an hour in great minutiae

00:10:05   about everything and then then I was

00:10:08   like well all right I guess I'll be

00:10:12   going now then sorry sorry that this

00:10:14   happened and I left the zoo and CGP grey

00:10:18   the lady penguin has died I feel very

00:10:21   strange about this I tell you what I the

00:10:23   more I think about it the sadder I feel

00:10:26   because you know when that was just a

00:10:27   baby we were there we saw it I feel

00:10:29   attached to it I made that cute video of

00:10:31   it with the cute music as a baby I

00:10:33   posted the footage of it being weighed

00:10:35   and I feel this real attachment and I

00:10:36   feel I feel sad when any animal dies but

00:10:39   I feel especially sad about this mmm-hmm

00:10:44   wondering about those numbers for zoo

00:10:47   animal transport like those seem like

00:10:50   pretty high fatal numbers you said

00:10:52   nineteen penguins went and three of them

00:10:54   died in transit yeah it seems like a

00:10:56   high percentage I was told that birds

00:10:58   dying in transit is more common than say

00:11:01   a gorilla right okay I have a somewhat

00:11:03   like if you send 20 gorillas and you

00:11:05   lose three of them it's really

00:11:06   concerning I

00:11:07   receive an autopsy report the zoo with

00:11:09   all the details they haven't got it yet

00:11:11   they've actually promised to give me a

00:11:12   full briefing when they find out what

00:11:14   happened they don't know exactly what

00:11:15   happened themselves this is for real

00:11:17   autopsy going to be done about this well

00:11:19   there's some kind of report yeah

00:11:21   apparently that has to happen I guess

00:11:23   that makes sense that if you're

00:11:25   transporting zoo animals back and forth

00:11:26   the sending zoo is going to want to know

00:11:28   the details it's just it just never

00:11:31   occurred to me but it's serious it's

00:11:33   very serious

00:11:34   so I feel like I have to put this on

00:11:37   record and fairness to the zoo because

00:11:39   this is basically a publicity stunt gone

00:11:42   terribly terribly wrong because of all

00:11:45   the Penguins that could have died the

00:11:47   one that like has this like really

00:11:48   popular podcast following it and this

00:11:50   like silly guy who made the big ruckus

00:11:53   on Twitter and stuff mm-hmm

00:11:55   I feel really sorry for them that they

00:11:57   tried to do a good thing it's like blown

00:11:59   up in their face and it's and it's made

00:12:01   this penguin dying an even bigger deal

00:12:02   than it would have been mm-hmm and I

00:12:04   also want to say everyone has different

00:12:06   views about the rights and wrongs of

00:12:08   zoos and I can see all sides of the

00:12:10   story but I do have to point out that

00:12:13   the zoo does a lot for penguins the

00:12:16   reason we were raising money for them is

00:12:17   they have this special program will they

00:12:19   send their experts to South Africa every

00:12:22   year and they like rescue all these

00:12:24   hatchlings and then hand reer them and

00:12:26   release them back into the wild

00:12:28   so like this zoo has an above-average

00:12:30   interest in the welfare of South African

00:12:33   penguins yeah so for us now to be doing

00:12:35   a podcast about a penguin that they were

00:12:37   transporting died I feel a bit sorry for

00:12:40   them because they're try and do the

00:12:42   right thing by penguins and it's kind of

00:12:44   this has kind of gone a bit wrong so I

00:12:46   feel like I should say that I also have

00:12:49   taken lessons from it myself good and

00:12:51   bad okay

00:12:53   would it would have you learn really my

00:12:55   first lesson is maybe be a bit more

00:12:57   careful before you make a big ruckus on

00:12:59   social media is love what do you mean

00:13:06   because I was like oh this ends today

00:13:08   and I was going in there all guns

00:13:10   blazing and everyone was saying we can't

00:13:12   wait to find out Brady what's the news

00:13:14   and then suddenly I was like confronted

00:13:16   by this horrible outcome mm-hmm and I

00:13:20   didn't want to then like tweet

00:13:21   or snapchat hey that the penguin has

00:13:23   died right which is what had happened

00:13:25   uh-huh so I kind of had to go quiet

00:13:28   while I thought about it and that was

00:13:30   just like getting people more and more

00:13:31   fired up the suspense is killing us

00:13:33   where's the penguin how is she maybe I

00:13:36   played my hand a bit early on the on the

00:13:39   social media side of things I can see

00:13:41   how this particular time this worked out

00:13:43   as an unfortunate outcome for you uh I

00:13:47   don't think this is like a general

00:13:48   lesson to learn from the situation like

00:13:51   it is a lesson gray you know because

00:13:52   this is not the first time this sort of

00:13:54   thing has happened to me admittedly

00:13:56   social media but like I remember this

00:13:58   another thing that happened to me once

00:14:00   twice in the course of a week I'd been

00:14:03   trying to contact you know some of my

00:14:04   academics around the university about

00:14:06   making films and sometimes I just wander

00:14:08   around the university and go to their

00:14:10   offices just for a chat and I walked

00:14:12   past a few of the offices of people I'd

00:14:14   been emailing for a while and one of

00:14:15   them I walked in and said hey how you're

00:14:17   doing like jokey I was like why aren't

00:14:19   you replying to my emails I emailed you

00:14:21   like three or four times in the last few

00:14:22   months what's going on and then he was

00:14:24   like my mum died a few weeks ago and

00:14:27   then I was like ah sorry and like that

00:14:33   explains why you're not replying to my

00:14:34   emails then so I was like maybe I should

00:14:36   have been a bit more sensitive about not

00:14:38   replying to my emails and then like a

00:14:40   few days later the exact same thing

00:14:42   happened with another academic and I

00:14:43   made the same joke and again he'd had

00:14:45   like I think it was a parent died as

00:14:47   well so I don't know maybe I'm just

00:14:50   unlucky perhaps there is a distinction

00:14:52   to be drawn in the difference between

00:14:54   the lack of Correspondence from a human

00:14:56   being and the lack of Correspondence

00:14:57   from a penguin it hadn't occurred to me

00:14:59   that because of all that stuff that had

00:15:02   been going on on reddit the idea that

00:15:04   the penguin could have died had gone out

00:15:05   of my head right right one never thinks

00:15:08   of penguin mortality does one write

00:15:10   until you have to face it directly I'm

00:15:12   not like going through like you know the

00:15:14   stages of grief or anything because it's

00:15:15   just it's just penguin but I am also

00:15:17   wondering whether I'm partly to blame

00:15:19   because if I had done more that penguin

00:15:22   in terms of coverage and publicity would

00:15:24   it have become so valuable to the zoo

00:15:26   that they would not have dared even

00:15:27   Transporter like if it had become more

00:15:29   famous did I not make it famous enough I

00:15:32   think that's undeniable that is true

00:15:34   if the penguin had been promoted more

00:15:37   with updates about her weight and her

00:15:40   health over time and and you had sent

00:15:43   more people to the zoo through your

00:15:45   efforts you could have saved her life do

00:15:47   not think there's any way that isn't

00:15:48   true like it has to be true that that's

00:15:51   the case even if I just cold about it

00:15:53   more often they would have thought

00:15:54   because one of the things they were so

00:15:55   sorry about was they were saying we're

00:15:57   so sorry we didn't tell you it was being

00:15:58   moved we probably should have told you

00:15:59   but if I was someone who like you know

00:16:01   called about it every month and stuff

00:16:03   they would have known I was watching and

00:16:05   maybe not had center so yeah that's true

00:16:07   awful is true I think your negligence

00:16:09   definitely does have a hand in this

00:16:10   Brady I think there's I think there's no

00:16:12   way around that

00:16:13   by the way just to be clear I did say

00:16:15   this earlier the zoo kind of did have to

00:16:18   send penguins to tibula see this is how

00:16:20   this is how Sue's work by the way like

00:16:23   there's an overarching body that looks

00:16:25   after breeding populations and what

00:16:26   animals go where and if this body says

00:16:28   you're sending animals here and there

00:16:30   that's pretty much binding as long as

00:16:33   where you're sending it is like a legit

00:16:34   proper zoo and you and it was so yeah

00:16:37   yeah that's totally understood I saw a

00:16:40   few things on the reddit where people

00:16:41   were actually discussing that about how

00:16:43   I didn't realize that's video that

00:16:44   there's like a it's like a meta su

00:16:46   organization that directs the transport

00:16:49   of animals around like you said for

00:16:50   breeding populations against one of

00:16:52   those things like it makes total sense

00:16:53   once you think about it that that would

00:16:54   exist it's in the interest of all zoos

00:16:57   to mix their animals more than they

00:16:59   would be mixing just within the zoo yes

00:17:02   but yeah but yeah you can see like it

00:17:03   becomes a kind of contract where there's

00:17:05   meta organization directs the movement

00:17:07   of animals around so okay I'm not I'm

00:17:09   not holding the zoo in any blame at all

00:17:12   I'm just saying that you're basically

00:17:14   just blaming me yeah yeah that's that's

00:17:16   exist to make it really clear it's not

00:17:18   the zoo's fault if Brady had acted

00:17:20   differently could things be different

00:17:22   the answer is yes that's undeniable

00:17:25   there's one more lesson from this okay

00:17:28   this is a lesson to me kind of about

00:17:31   journalism but also about you could you

00:17:33   could talk about this in other aspects

00:17:35   of life and it reminded me of lessons I

00:17:37   learned in my early days and this I'm

00:17:39   not making this part of our earlier

00:17:40   discussions about the media and

00:17:41   journalism this has nothing to do with

00:17:42   any of that this is just a general thing

00:17:45   about being a journalist okay and there

00:17:47   is

00:17:48   the best journalism always comes from

00:17:52   getting off your butt and going to the

00:17:54   place because I thought the problem had

00:17:57   been solved by this reddit Facebook

00:17:59   stuff and also I thought I'll probably

00:18:01   get an answer from the press department

00:18:02   eventually although it didn't look like

00:18:04   I was doing it but really I didn't get

00:18:07   to the bottom of things as terrible as

00:18:09   it was until I just like turned up and

00:18:12   gotten faces and started counting

00:18:14   penguins and looking at numbers and like

00:18:16   being there on the spot and making them

00:18:18   actually come and see me and looking

00:18:20   people in the eyes and having the

00:18:21   discussion and it doesn't just apply to

00:18:23   journalism applies to lots of other

00:18:25   things in life like if you sit around

00:18:27   and wait for stuff to get done by other

00:18:30   people or nothing beats if it's feasible

00:18:35   and possible going there and being there

00:18:37   and being on the spot because you always

00:18:39   find out more and you always get closer

00:18:43   to the bottom of the things if you are

00:18:44   like at the place the hello internet

00:18:47   nation is indebted to your journalism on

00:18:50   this particular issue really well I wish

00:18:54   I wish I was the bearer of better news

00:18:56   but that do you know what when I first

00:18:58   started as a journalist you know I would

00:19:01   interview and did lots of things over

00:19:02   the phone because that's the way things

00:19:03   work quite often but then often you need

00:19:05   photographs to go with it and we would

00:19:07   have these forms you would fill out and

00:19:09   give to the photograph editor saying I

00:19:11   need a picture of this or this place or

00:19:13   this person and you'd organize it all

00:19:15   and set it all up and then you'd fill

00:19:17   out the form with the addresses and the

00:19:18   phone numbers and the times and that and

00:19:20   there was a box you would tick to say

00:19:22   whether or not the journalist was going

00:19:23   on the story or not whether the journals

00:19:25   wanted to go with the photographer to

00:19:28   sort of director or maybe you hadn't

00:19:29   interviewed the person yet so you needed

00:19:31   to be there so it was a yes or no and I

00:19:33   would always tick no because I don't

00:19:36   know maybe a little bit of laziness and

00:19:38   a little bit of shyness you know I was I

00:19:39   was still that younger journalist who

00:19:41   was a bit who wasn't that confident I'll

00:19:44   always take know and I remember one time

00:19:45   the photo editor sort of took me to one

00:19:48   side because I got along really well

00:19:49   with him and he said you should go on

00:19:51   some of these stories more often because

00:19:52   it's good to go there and like see

00:19:55   things and you know it'll make your

00:19:56   stories better so then I started ticking

00:19:59   yes more often and I would just go even

00:20:01   though I'd spoken to these

00:20:02   people on the phone often and I already

00:20:04   knew the story I would go along just to

00:20:06   be there for the photo shoot and I found

00:20:08   that so valuable and so interesting and

00:20:11   it always I always found it so mitt so

00:20:13   much more amazing stuff and interesting

00:20:15   stuff and like my stories became so much

00:20:17   better by doing it that it just became

00:20:19   my rule when I would take yes for

00:20:21   everything like no matter what it was I

00:20:22   just wanted to go and see the stuff and

00:20:24   be part of the story it got to the point

00:20:26   where a year or two later the photo

00:20:28   editor pulled me aside and said do you

00:20:29   actually have to go on all these stories

00:20:31   because it's really inconvenient for me

00:20:32   for the photographer's to always have to

00:20:34   come back and pick you up and take you

00:20:35   so it backfired on him but it was a

00:20:39   really good lesson there's a really good

00:20:40   lesson if you're doing anything and you

00:20:42   feasibly can go there there's a lot to

00:20:45   be said for I like that your enthusiasm

00:20:47   was causing logistics problems for ya

00:20:50   the organization that you're working for

00:20:51   his like yeah okay buddy it's good to be

00:20:53   enthusiastic but not this enthusiastic

00:20:56   yeah we're just taking it and we're just

00:20:57   taking a photograph of the person

00:20:59   sitting at that desk do you have to be

00:21:00   there yes I want to be there I could ask

00:21:02   good query to do a ride-along once every

00:21:05   couple months right but yeah it's not

00:21:06   every day not twice a day not three

00:21:09   times a day that's not what we were

00:21:10   looking for yeah anyway I there we go

00:21:15   CGP grey the lady penguin rest in peace

00:21:19   rest in peace gone to that great rocky

00:21:22   outcrop in the sky gone to a farm in

00:21:24   upstate yeah I figured some I figured

00:21:27   some rocky outcrop in the middle of the

00:21:29   sea is the penguin equivalent of the

00:21:31   farm no it's all the farm all the

00:21:33   animals go to the farm together that's

00:21:35   how that works that's what they could

00:21:37   have done they could have put me on that

00:21:38   bench and said

00:21:39   CGP grey the penguin isn't here and

00:21:40   isn't it Tbilisi she's gone to a special

00:21:43   magical zoo for the firemen Tbilisi

00:21:47   shall be we shall be running through the

00:21:49   forest the happy penguin okay that

00:21:51   doesn't make any sense don't question it

00:21:53   too much man don't question it we're

00:21:54   just telling you a story here we need to

00:21:56   think of something to do about this gray

00:21:58   I feel like it can't end here what do

00:22:02   you mean I don't know I feel like this

00:22:03   can't be the end of the story

00:22:05   all stories come to an end and death is

00:22:07   an ending I'm not sure what you're

00:22:10   looking for here Brady yeah

00:22:12   with those people who like that timing

00:22:15   how long it takes

00:22:16   death to come up in our podcast are

00:22:18   gonna got a cracking opening opening for

00:22:21   the Miss time don't we opening stories

00:22:23   about that when I was thinking about how

00:22:25   to tell the story like obviously I had

00:22:28   to tell you and the listeners about this

00:22:30   I was thinking do I tell it

00:22:32   chronologically how it happened to me or

00:22:34   do I just say it from the start look

00:22:36   before I start the story who the penguin

00:22:39   is dead and now here's how I found out

00:22:41   because I was a bit worried as I told

00:22:43   the story you'd be mr. jokey I Brady

00:22:45   you're so funny and like you'd be

00:22:46   laughing and stuff and then like I drop

00:22:48   the bomb and then you'd feel bad about

00:22:50   being jokey because that's what happened

00:22:52   to me you know I was joking about it all

00:22:54   the time and making a big joke at the

00:22:55   whole thing yeah yucking it up on social

00:22:57   media right right right right and check

00:22:59   that you're gonna have to cache later no

00:23:02   so I didn't want to put you in the same

00:23:04   position but I felt like you should

00:23:06   experience it as I experienced it I

00:23:08   think there was the appropriate choice

00:23:10   there breathing and you also had that

00:23:11   moment that I had when they said

00:23:13   actually no we want to talk to you

00:23:14   somewhere else but yeah I know there's

00:23:17   never good right there this ah ah okay

00:23:20   whenever whenever people say they want

00:23:22   to talk to you like how many times is

00:23:25   that good news the answer is never right

00:23:27   it's never good news and they literally

00:23:29   took me somewhere where I could sit down

00:23:31   yeah yeah if they want to talk to you

00:23:33   and they also want to change locations

00:23:36   that is never good right these just you

00:23:38   just know you know something something

00:23:40   bad is about to happen there so Marty

00:23:45   black stump is ticking along there's

00:23:47   been a lot of online investigations into

00:23:49   the height of Marty black stump versus

00:23:51   Telstra house people seem to be in in

00:23:54   the same way they were relying on sort

00:23:55   of redder and the internet to figure out

00:23:57   what happened to the penguin they seem

00:23:59   to be using sort of you know all this

00:24:01   Google Earth and visualization stuff to

00:24:03   settle the matter of which building is

00:24:06   taller which I don't think is going to

00:24:08   provide an adequate solution yeah all I

00:24:10   want to know is if there's if there's

00:24:11   somebody out there with I don't know

00:24:13   what are those things people use like

00:24:15   the little triangle things to measure

00:24:16   this like the old a lot or something

00:24:18   like yes okay so one of those things

00:24:19   right yeah you see them in like old

00:24:21   manuscripts that's what I want I want a

00:24:23   dude with one of those measuring Heights

00:24:26   in Adal

00:24:26   that that's all we need I want sketches

00:24:29   I want triangles

00:24:30   I want trigonometry yeah parchment the

00:24:33   sketches on a parchment would something

00:24:35   like that that's that's a we near

00:24:37   blueprints the thing that is crucial

00:24:39   here Telstra house which claims to be

00:24:42   one metre taller it does seem to make

00:24:44   sense that would be one meter taller

00:24:46   because it was built a lot later and why

00:24:48   would you build a new building in

00:24:50   Adelaide and not make it the tallest

00:24:52   when you were so close

00:24:53   you would chuck an extra meter on there

00:24:55   just for bragging rights yeah of course

00:24:57   even though it only held the title for

00:24:58   one year before the other building came

00:25:00   along but the problem is the mighty

00:25:03   black stump has this antenna on top that

00:25:06   Telstra house does not and the antenna

00:25:07   clearly makes the mighty black stump

00:25:09   taller if you include that and this

00:25:12   leads to this can of worms about how do

00:25:14   you define the height of a building and

00:25:17   this is a huge issue there's a great

00:25:20   Wikipedia article about it as there is

00:25:22   about everything this is not a new

00:25:24   debate this has been going on since they

00:25:27   started building skyscrapers really from

00:25:29   the moment the builders of the Chrysler

00:25:31   Building put that cheeky spire on top

00:25:33   that they hadn't told anyone about so

00:25:35   that they could take top spot and they'd

00:25:36   head the spire until the last minute

00:25:38   like do you count antennas

00:25:40   do you count spires is it from the

00:25:43   architectural top of the building what's

00:25:45   the difference between a spire and an

00:25:47   antenna is that the highest level that

00:25:50   people can actually habitate you're

00:25:52   always a guy that has opinions if you

00:25:54   were defining the height of a building

00:25:57   what would you use is your cutoff point

00:26:00   so thinking about this earlier today I

00:26:02   think there's only two choices to go

00:26:04   with hmm one is the ground height to the

00:26:11   top of the structure including antennas

00:26:14   or spires or whatever just anything

00:26:16   that's physical anything that's physical

00:26:19   I think that counts right like okay I

00:26:21   think that's one measure to do is just

00:26:23   like if a kid is asking how tall a

00:26:25   building is I think that's their their

00:26:28   idea the tallest point but I was

00:26:31   thinking though I actually like the

00:26:34   definition that it is

00:26:36   it's not actually the top of the

00:26:38   building it's the top most part of the

00:26:41   building that is like where a person can

00:26:45   stand that isn't maintenance right

00:26:48   that's the usable part of the building

00:26:51   that to me seems like a non Chiddy way

00:26:54   to talk about what is the tallest

00:26:56   structure I feel like those are the two

00:26:58   things that I would go with like what is

00:27:00   the the place at which someone can

00:27:02   either have an office or an apartment at

00:27:04   the top of this building or what is the

00:27:06   actual tippy top of the building I think

00:27:07   those are those are two not unreasonable

00:27:10   ways to try to figure out what the

00:27:12   tallest building is I hear a Brady sigh

00:27:16   over there what are you thinking well

00:27:18   it's fair enough what you're saying is

00:27:19   fair enough but it just opens more cans

00:27:22   of worms you know there's a big

00:27:24   difference between that spire at the top

00:27:26   of the Chrysler Building which is like a

00:27:28   proper meaty structure and they're just

00:27:31   bolting some token flagpole to the top

00:27:34   to give yourself a few meters some

00:27:36   rickety piece of wood in a you know in a

00:27:38   pot I think now I think this way lies

00:27:42   madness because you're right about that

00:27:44   I know I know it Jimmy like the Chrysler

00:27:46   Building is a great example

00:27:48   it's like hollow on the inside isn't it

00:27:49   it's just like a hat with the buildings

00:27:51   wearing it's not a whole lot I think

00:27:53   there is a difference between that and

00:27:55   just sticking an antenna up as tall as

00:27:57   it can possibly go but I think there's

00:28:00   no meaningful way to try to come up with

00:28:02   a way to say here's how we are going to

00:28:04   distinguish essentially antenna from

00:28:08   decorative adornments on the top of the

00:28:11   building people do try by the way that

00:28:13   there isn't a tent okay I'm sure you

00:28:15   know I'm sure there is but I just think

00:28:17   there's no there's no way that you can

00:28:19   possibly get around that you always

00:28:22   going to be rules lawyer ring about this

00:28:23   whole thing maybe I'm wrong but I feel

00:28:25   like the top most usable part of the

00:28:29   building is a lot harder to rules lawyer

00:28:32   your way around and I think it gets to

00:28:34   the idea of why do we want tall

00:28:36   buildings because they're fun to go up

00:28:38   into yeah right there like there needs

00:28:41   to be space for people at the top of

00:28:42   these tall buildings otherwise what's

00:28:44   the point of it so you would count

00:28:46   observation decks yeah I would count an

00:28:48   observation deck as

00:28:50   top points like the Empire State

00:28:51   Building the observation deck I think is

00:28:54   that yeah is the highest part where

00:28:55   people can go and that seems to me like

00:28:57   I think that's where you should measure

00:28:58   the height from for what the tallest

00:29:00   building is I mean also it comes down

00:29:02   here to whether we're counting things as

00:29:04   buildings or structures because I think

00:29:06   they're two different categories what

00:29:09   you're talking about is a fair

00:29:10   categorization of a tallest building

00:29:12   maybe but not a tall structure okay you

00:29:16   know so like a red so a radio masts

00:29:18   could be a taller structure but it's not

00:29:20   building obviously hmm okay all right

00:29:23   yeah I think you have a point there

00:29:25   right because the structure is going to

00:29:26   be a place that doesn't have any human

00:29:28   usable space on the inside of it there's

00:29:30   a certain definition to our current

00:29:32   member water is off the top of my head

00:29:33   that precludes the CN tower from being a

00:29:37   building but it is a structure even

00:29:39   though it's got that lovely observation

00:29:41   deck because so much of it is just Tower

00:29:44   and lift mm-hmm to get you to what is

00:29:47   basically just a floating observation

00:29:48   deck that gets crossed off there's some

00:29:51   definition of a building I don't know if

00:29:52   it's a percentage of the structure that

00:29:54   can be habited or you know I can already

00:29:57   see here from the Wikipedia page right

00:29:59   that they have three categories they

00:30:00   have buildings structures and towers

00:30:02   yeah so I guess I'm just going to make

00:30:05   it up but I'm presuming then that our is

00:30:07   a thing that a person can go up into so

00:30:10   it has some limited amount of usable

00:30:11   space versus the structure which

00:30:13   probably has none like a radio tower but

00:30:16   which is a structure within these

00:30:17   definitions I'm gonna guess it's a mess

00:30:20   but but and you know this is what

00:30:22   happens when you deal with mighty mighty

00:30:24   buildings like the mighty black stump

00:30:25   these kind of questions need to be

00:30:27   answered so there is some definition by

00:30:30   which the mighty black stump is taller

00:30:32   than Telstra house cuz it's got this

00:30:33   wispy little antenna on top mmm but the

00:30:36   jury's still out

00:30:37   there's still a lot to go this is not

00:30:39   the last you've heard of it but despite

00:30:41   Grey's wishes once again I'm looking at

00:30:44   these two buildings in the 3d rendering

00:30:48   and it looks like Telstra house might

00:30:50   have higher usable space but it's hard

00:30:52   to tell are those just elevator banks on

00:30:55   the top what is that I don't know who

00:30:56   knows who knows someone needs to go out

00:30:59   there in person to take care of them

00:31:01   they using all this visualization

00:31:03   software I don't

00:31:03   what it is and what they've been doing

00:31:05   is they've been like virtually going to

00:31:07   the top of the mighty Black Star and

00:31:09   when they do that they can like see onto

00:31:11   the top of Telstra house and then they

00:31:13   virtually go onto the top of Telstra

00:31:15   house and you can't see onto the top of

00:31:17   the mighty black stump so they're saying

00:31:19   look it's proof it's proof but I don't

00:31:21   even know what this software is like I

00:31:22   don't know what's going on here it's not

00:31:24   satisfactory to me they said this needs

00:31:27   to be done I'm sorry this needs to be

00:31:28   done in person this is not something

00:31:30   that's going to be solved virtually

00:31:32   google earth is not going to cut it for

00:31:34   Brady that's what's happening here

00:31:35   that's right I wasn't real earth in this

00:31:37   particular case if the Black Star

00:31:41   building manager had shown me the

00:31:42   respect I deserved and had let me onto

00:31:45   the roof I would be a lot closer to

00:31:47   knowing the answer to this that's true

00:31:48   that's true but he didn't let me up

00:31:50   there so we don't know someone who had a

00:31:53   lead has to be able to get access to

00:31:55   those rooms I think that that's got to

00:31:57   happen of course immediately following

00:31:59   our discussion there was and there was a

00:32:01   total lockdown of all Wikipedia pages

00:32:03   pertaining to Adelaide buildings I'm

00:32:06   getting a little bit upset about

00:32:07   something and I've been dealing with

00:32:08   this a lot on reddit and online but I

00:32:10   want to have it on the podcast so that

00:32:12   everyone has heard it the black stamp is

00:32:14   a legitimate long term nickname for the

00:32:19   Grenville Center it was cold that when I

00:32:21   was growing up you can go through

00:32:23   newspaper archives it's referred to all

00:32:25   the time there is nothing wrong with the

00:32:27   Wikipedia page referring to this

00:32:29   building as the black stump the word

00:32:32   mighty has been added by grey to be

00:32:35   facetious no one calls up the mighty

00:32:37   black stump in Adelaide that is a joke

00:32:39   of course it should not be on the

00:32:40   Wikipedia page but the black stump is

00:32:42   completely legitimate and it's driving

00:32:45   me crazy that people keep deleting

00:32:47   references to the black stump saying oh

00:32:49   this is just some hello internet joke

00:32:51   and nuisance makers there is not

00:32:53   nuisance making the black stump is 100%

00:32:56   legitimate and it's driving me crazy

00:32:58   that people now think it's some joke hmm

00:33:01   and we do have a primary source for

00:33:04   being called the black stump because we

00:33:07   have a primary source of t-shirt sales

00:33:09   that say is the mighty black stump

00:33:11   I've gone and I've pointed people to old

00:33:14   newspaper articles that predate hello

00:33:16   Internet

00:33:17   referring to it you know Real Estate

00:33:19   Sale articles referring to the black

00:33:20   stamp but I just I can't win this one

00:33:23   it's this Wikipedia vandalism backfiring

00:33:26   on me I blame you me with your stupid

00:33:28   mighty yeah because you because you put

00:33:31   my tea in there and have confused

00:33:32   everything if I have caused some kind of

00:33:35   Wikipedia trouble I'm terribly sorry

00:33:37   I've never wanted to cause I would like

00:33:39   to get it on record here that I have

00:33:40   never wanted to cause Wikipedia trouble

00:33:42   I have never encouraged Wikipedia

00:33:44   trouble I'm just saying like I think we

00:33:46   have a primary source that shows that

00:33:47   it's called the mighty black stump the

00:33:49   I've never seen a primary source for

00:33:51   saying that it's called the black stump

00:33:52   and the mighty black stump is just a

00:33:54   better name but you know like I'm sure

00:33:55   people will sort it out in the Wikipedia

00:33:56   like that's how this works the truth

00:33:58   will triumph Brady now last episode just

00:34:01   very very quickly last episode we spoke

00:34:03   about something that both you and I

00:34:05   disliked and that is April Fool's Day

00:34:07   mm-hmm I'm adding to that list from my

00:34:11   and at least Star Wars day as another

00:34:13   completely naff day that everyone jumps

00:34:16   on and thinks they're the master or dead

00:34:19   jokes and they look like complete idiots

00:34:21   stop it with all your may the 4th be

00:34:23   with your jokes stop your corporate

00:34:26   people photoshopping Darth Vader into

00:34:28   whatever your corporate picture is to

00:34:29   make it look like you're down with the

00:34:30   Star Wars fans you look silly Star Wars

00:34:33   day was cool for a couple of years it

00:34:35   was funny for a couple of years now it's

00:34:37   been co-opted by the idiots and anyone

00:34:39   else needs to get the hell out of Dodge

00:34:41   whoa wow that's just my opinion

00:34:45   you for die yeah yeah pretty intense

00:34:48   about this what about you you think Star

00:34:51   Wars days you know oh is the last best

00:34:54   breathing I don't want to be lumped in

00:34:57   with you as this grump

00:34:59   who doesn't like fun That's not me I'm

00:35:01   about the fun and a holiday based on a

00:35:05   pun like man I couldn't imagine

00:35:07   something that'd be more down for I

00:35:09   think that's a fantastic idea and yeah

00:35:12   it's great

00:35:13   I love seeing corporate cross promotion

00:35:16   I love seeing dad jokes I've loved

00:35:18   everything about it so so don't get me

00:35:20   wrong

00:35:20   listening audience Brady is the

00:35:22   curmudgeon here I'm I think it's great I

00:35:25   think it's awesome is it purely the pun

00:35:28   or is there some link to the data

00:35:31   well like it wasn't the date that the

00:35:32   film premiered or anything was it is

00:35:34   purely the patent I think I think it's

00:35:36   literally just a pun that's all it is

00:35:38   Star Wars day Wikipedia yeah it's

00:35:41   entirely just a pun it's just a pun

00:35:42   based holiday I'm perfectly in favor of

00:35:45   I think it's like a good pen yeah yeah

00:35:48   it's my favorite it's it's the best I

00:35:50   think Brady the problem is you just

00:35:52   don't like things when they get too

00:35:54   popular you like Star Wars when it was

00:35:56   just you and your friends who knew about

00:35:58   it yeah when when virtually no one had

00:36:01   heard of Sarah was except me in my

00:36:02   friends exactly just you and your

00:36:04   friends back in the 70s had watched Star

00:36:07   Wars right but now that everybody knows

00:36:08   about it now you don't like it I think

00:36:10   that's what's happening here

00:36:11   yeah yeah I like Star Wars before it was

00:36:13   popular so like that's like a day before

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00:36:46   MySQL in years and I'm so happy about

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00:37:46   /hello thank you so much to Squarespace

00:37:49   for supporting this show I saw something

00:37:52   on the hello Internet reddit which I

00:37:55   really liked Brady it was a picture of a

00:37:58   guy installing his newbie house his new

00:38:02   apiary wearing the nail and gear did you

00:38:06   see this photo I'm looking at it now

00:38:08   he's a handsome man

00:38:10   it's a handsome man I have to say I gave

00:38:12   him credit for not wearing the bee suit

00:38:14   if you look closely in the photo he has

00:38:16   bees all over him is that his real

00:38:18   Bader's you got one of those babies oh

00:38:20   it's good question ah let's enhance I'm

00:38:24   enhancing click to enhance that is a bee

00:38:27   beard Wow ok there's actually way more

00:38:29   bees on here I first thought super

00:38:32   impressive I wanted to mention this

00:38:34   photo because this one made me really

00:38:37   smile because you might think this is

00:38:40   crazy I have this idea Brady that when I

00:38:44   retire from the internet when I give up

00:38:47   the tremendous volume of outputs that I

00:38:51   create when I hang up my reddit user

00:38:54   name and retire I have this like crazy

00:38:58   idea that you know what I left you in my

00:39:00   retirement

00:39:01   I'd love to raise bees I don't know why

00:39:04   I have this idea that like I'll get a

00:39:07   bee house and I'll tend to the bees this

00:39:10   is just like this little idea that I

00:39:11   have as an old man hobby I love a cgb

00:39:15   gray why that what of all the old man

00:39:19   hobbies you could have like you know I

00:39:21   mean you know if you'd said I want to

00:39:23   build a train set I'd be like oh yeah

00:39:25   I'm totally on board and then who

00:39:26   doesn't want to be able to I can awesome

00:39:27   train set I don't want to build an

00:39:29   awesome train set now that seems that

00:39:31   strikes me as incredibly tedious

00:39:32   that sounds uninteresting why the bays

00:39:35   then why the base good I have no idea

00:39:37   this is one of these things that I'm

00:39:38   just aware that okay so sometimes I

00:39:41   watch these property shows I think I

00:39:43   mentioned before on the podcast I

00:39:45   watches property show called escape to

00:39:48   the country where people who live in

00:39:49   London decide they're going to go retire

00:39:51   out in the country you've just melted my

00:39:54   brain why have i melted your brain

00:39:55   that's like a TV show you don't watch

00:39:58   too

00:39:58   hey how do you even watch that what

00:40:00   device do you watch that on its you know

00:40:02   you can you can find you can find the

00:40:04   show I can't believe you watch escape to

00:40:06   the country I'm so sure I've mentioned

00:40:08   this before to you Bri this is a bigger

00:40:10   shock to me than the penguin dying

00:40:11   hahaha it's fantastic it's a great show

00:40:16   it is a great show but I can't believe

00:40:18   you watch it or like it it's a great

00:40:20   show of essentially for pensioners my

00:40:22   wife and I will make a cup of tea we'll

00:40:23   put a blanket over our legs like we're

00:40:25   80 years old and we'll watch escaped to

00:40:27   the country and it's fantastic do you

00:40:30   think you could ever live in a rural

00:40:31   location with your base here's where I'm

00:40:33   going with this right is because I watch

00:40:36   this show and there's a funny thing that

00:40:38   always happens on the show we're like a

00:40:39   couple who's lived in London their

00:40:40   entire life they're like oh we're gonna

00:40:41   go retire and they'll be describing what

00:40:45   they want to have in a house when they

00:40:47   retire and they'll be like okay we want

00:40:50   this feature we want that feature we

00:40:51   want this other feature and then the

00:40:52   husband will always say something dumb

00:40:54   like oh and I want a really big yard

00:40:56   because I'm going to manage goats right

00:40:59   and there's like have you ever taken

00:41:01   care of goats before he's like now

00:41:02   that's just a thing that I want to do

00:41:03   and I'm watching the show and I always

00:41:05   feel like what an idiot like this this

00:41:07   guy thinks he's going to be managing a

00:41:08   herd of goats in his retirement like

00:41:10   that's a disaster like we all know how

00:41:12   this is going to end

00:41:13   goats roaming the country free once

00:41:15   they've escaped from his backyard right

00:41:17   or if they're all gonna die like who

00:41:19   knows it's just not going to end well

00:41:20   like is idiot has never raised goats

00:41:22   this is what he things he's want to do

00:41:23   but like I have this same crazy idea in

00:41:26   my head like at some point in my future

00:41:28   I'm gonna be raising bees and I don't

00:41:30   know why I don't know why I have it

00:41:31   there Brady but it's just like it's this

00:41:33   idea my old man hobby and it's a

00:41:36   contradiction because I'm aware that I

00:41:38   am totally disdainful of other people

00:41:40   who on a TV show that I watch have

00:41:41   essentially the same idea for their

00:41:43   retirement and I'm like Otto's idiots

00:41:45   right but now but me this somehow feels

00:41:47   different I think this is gonna happen

00:41:48   at some point Brady do you like honey

00:41:50   yeah it's good honey's good are you

00:41:53   allergic to bass ah seem like you would

00:41:56   be do I that's a good question I've been

00:41:59   stung but wait why do we why does it

00:42:01   seem like I would be allergic to bees

00:42:02   how can someone seem like they're

00:42:03   allergic to bees

00:42:04   I don't know you just seem like an

00:42:06   allergic kind of guy oh yeah like all

00:42:11   kinds of things I should just be

00:42:12   allergic to them this is the way it

00:42:13   seems let's just the vibe I get like you

00:42:16   don't look sickly or anything but you

00:42:17   just I get an allergic vibe from you

00:42:19   okay

00:42:20   yeah I've been stung by bees as a kid

00:42:22   okay can you get allergic later in life

00:42:25   I don't know I have no idea do you wanna

00:42:27   hear my base tongue story of course you

00:42:29   have a bee stung story tell me really I

00:42:31   grew up with a swimming pool in

00:42:33   Australia my parents had a swimming pool

00:42:35   so my sister and I had a swimming pool

00:42:37   by default and I remember one day my mum

00:42:39   took us to the shops and bought us lots

00:42:42   of fun stuff for the pool like

00:42:44   inflatable stuff and these big plastic

00:42:46   oars and things like that so we were

00:42:48   going to have like the time of our life

00:42:49   playing with them in the pool but for

00:42:52   some reason I was going to go to my

00:42:53   friend's house first to play cricket my

00:42:56   sister and I because were little kids

00:42:57   we'll funny about you know not getting

00:42:59   to play with the toys first so we made a

00:43:01   pet that when I got back we would play

00:43:03   with the toys together one of us

00:43:05   wouldn't get to enjoy the toys before

00:43:07   the other one and my sister who's a lot

00:43:09   just completely sweet just agreed to

00:43:11   that and said yes that's fine so we put

00:43:14   all the toys around the pole and said

00:43:16   we'll play with them when I get home but

00:43:17   first I'm going to go over to my mates

00:43:18   house to play cricket and we were

00:43:20   playing cricket and then after a while I

00:43:21   said to my mates we've got all these

00:43:22   awesome new toys in the pool my sister

00:43:25   thinks I'm going to play with them with

00:43:26   her but why don't we put our bathers on

00:43:28   secretly and run around and go and play

00:43:30   with them before she gets the chance

00:43:31   because that would be like you know just

00:43:33   to just a tormentor because that was

00:43:35   what brothers do to sisters right yes so

00:43:37   we changed into obey this and my sister

00:43:39   was like watching TV in like a living

00:43:41   room that looked out over the pole and

00:43:42   we came storming into the backyard

00:43:44   nobody was going whoo-hoo-hoo and we

00:43:46   picked up all the inflatables and one of

00:43:48   the oars was sitting by the side of the

00:43:50   pool and I threw the inflatable in and

00:43:52   picked up the yaw and jumped into the

00:43:54   pool with the or ready to go rowing and

00:43:57   my sister came into the backyard crying

00:43:58   because what was terrible thing we were

00:44:01   doing to her and tormenting her and

00:44:02   suddenly I had this tremendous pain in

00:44:05   my hand and I'd been stung by a bee and

00:44:09   that was on the or and it turns out

00:44:12   while I was playing cricket my sister

00:44:13   had rescued a bee from the pole using

00:44:16   the oar and had like fished it out and

00:44:19   let it be or by the side of the pole

00:44:21   because she's so humane

00:44:22   she wanted the beach you know dry out

00:44:24   and fly away right so when I'd come

00:44:25   running and picked up the oil from the

00:44:27   side of the pool my hands straight on

00:44:29   the B and got stung that's how I got my

00:44:32   I learned my lesson I got my comeuppance

00:44:33   Oh believe you did that

00:44:36   oh I was getting all angry after what I

00:44:38   just done there so you learned to never

00:44:41   torment your sister again isn't how that

00:44:43   works that was the last day I ever

00:44:44   tormented her ever that was the last day

00:44:46   that's good yeah that's good I'm glad

00:44:47   you learned that lesson it weren't

00:44:49   pretty yeah my stepfather's a beekeeper

00:44:54   oh yeah really hmm interesting I've

00:44:57   never gone and seen his bees or hives he

00:44:59   kept them on another property away from

00:45:01   the house when I was growing up and yeah

00:45:03   but he would sometimes go away and tend

00:45:05   to his bees see even I like just the

00:45:07   idea of it like it just sounds romantic

00:45:08   like Oh tending to bees huh yeah of

00:45:10   course that sounds like a great thing to

00:45:11   do I've caught myself sometimes reading

00:45:13   about how to keep hives and like what

00:45:15   the hell am i doing right it's like I

00:45:17   can't I can't help myself this is

00:45:19   definitely one of the strangest things

00:45:21   that I find my mind like vaguely drawn

00:45:24   to every once in a while you can't leave

00:45:26   them alone gray you could get an

00:45:27   allotment somewhere and just go once a

00:45:29   week just go check on them leave the

00:45:31   allotment people to deal with life of

00:45:33   ease that Ferguson I guess some around

00:45:36   the country I can see why that would

00:45:39   appeal to you because there's like you

00:45:40   know because bees are all about

00:45:41   organization and colonies and all those

00:45:44   sort of things that you find so

00:45:45   interesting you know organizational

00:45:46   structures so being like the god of some

00:45:49   organization I would quite a people to

00:45:51   that's what I'm doing it for it's the

00:45:52   power trip yeah that is I am the god of

00:45:56   this hive you nailed afraid of yeah

00:46:00   you've gotten to the core of my they're

00:46:03   interested obviously I don't think you

00:46:05   want to do it to be the god of bees but

00:46:07   I can see why like you know studying and

00:46:09   looking at it would be interesting to

00:46:11   you I can see why I'd be an interesting

00:46:12   hobby tea yeah it's just that just it

00:46:14   captures my attention what are you going

00:46:17   to do in your retirement breeding I

00:46:18   would like to spend more time in

00:46:20   mountains and walking up I'd like to be

00:46:22   one of those people who like goes to

00:46:23   Scotland and captures Monroe's you know

00:46:26   how there are people who try and get to

00:46:27   every peak in Scotland and stuff like

00:46:29   that I would like to climb Hills in your

00:46:32   retirement yeah how people do it it's

00:46:35   not like you know cramp

00:46:36   and an ice axe and stuff it's just okay

00:46:38   Pleasant walks up Scottish Hills okay

00:46:42   alright basically tell me that you're

00:46:44   gonna be you're gonna be some budding

00:46:45   peaks in your environment which seemed a

00:46:47   little bit like I've got bad news for

00:46:49   you yeah I think I would like to do that

00:46:52   I like hills and mountains I like that I

00:46:57   think that's that's a romantic image of

00:46:58   a Brady when the Brady retires you'll

00:47:01   see him on the Scottish hills in the

00:47:04   distance walking around

00:47:06   that's a Brady will do bagging another

00:47:09   peak yeah bagging my list crossing it

00:47:11   off my list I like there I like taking a

00:47:14   pointing selfie at the top pointing to

00:47:16   the the style or whatever's up there the

00:47:18   trig point will say I like this will

00:47:21   have relaxing retirements Brady mmm

00:47:23   maybe maybe this is a good point to move

00:47:26   on to Mount Everest then as you know I

00:47:27   love talking about Mount Everest it is

00:47:29   as we are recording at the moment we're

00:47:32   just coming into the Everest climbing

00:47:33   season it should be more accurately

00:47:35   described as the Everest death season

00:47:38   because that's when we start here start

00:47:40   hearing all the stories about people

00:47:41   dying at Mount Everest which seems to

00:47:42   becoming more and more common more and

00:47:46   more people go every year right isn't

00:47:47   that how that works is it like a busy

00:47:49   place now Everest

00:47:50   all the tourists have ruined it there's

00:47:52   a Starbucks at base camp there's not a

00:47:55   stat bucket there's very good Wi-Fi at

00:47:56   base camp I give it time not be a

00:47:58   Starbucks there eventually right there's

00:48:00   better phone reception at base camp than

00:48:01   where I live that's for sure that is

00:48:03   true you live in the center of a black

00:48:05   hole of reception that can be crazy

00:48:06   every time my droughts I'm like it feels

00:48:08   like I'm in the third world as far as my

00:48:10   phone is concerned like why can't I get

00:48:11   no signal in your house it's crazy

00:48:14   making a good place for Bay's though out

00:48:18   here but the first death that was

00:48:20   reported was not of a tourist or some

00:48:24   amateur it was actually as far as

00:48:26   Mountaineers go it was a guy who is

00:48:28   probably the superstar of mountaineering

00:48:31   at the moment is a guy called Ueli Steck

00:48:34   or his nicknames the swiss machine and

00:48:37   he's like a really famous mountaineer

00:48:39   he's really good at climbing Peaks

00:48:40   quickly and he was getting ready to try

00:48:43   and do an unusual Everest climb this

00:48:46   season and he was just kind of

00:48:47   acclimatizing and

00:48:49   warming up sort of sort of thing and he

00:48:52   was actually just going up a little side

00:48:53   peak called nutsy it's funny Mount

00:48:57   Everest to my mind is really three

00:48:59   mountains kind of joined together

00:49:01   Everest

00:49:02   lot C and nutsy and yet they all are

00:49:05   treated separately and lot C in fact is

00:49:07   the fourth highest mountain in the world

00:49:08   but actually I just it's really just

00:49:10   like a southern peak of Everest hmm

00:49:12   anyway so there's these three sort of

00:49:14   mountains join together they form like a

00:49:16   little cradle around this western room

00:49:18   and he was sort of doing an

00:49:21   acclimatization climb on nutsy and has

00:49:24   fallen to his death which is terribly

00:49:27   sad thing to have happened but an

00:49:29   interesting thing about him is you ly

00:49:30   stick is actually the star of my

00:49:33   all-time favorite YouTube video which I

00:49:37   actually have since found out I think

00:49:38   maybe a little bit of a free boot but

00:49:40   it's been free booted so much now I

00:49:42   don't really know what to say this it's

00:49:43   a clip from a longer film where he's

00:49:46   climbing the Eiger in record time and

00:49:49   it's got a really cool song that I

00:49:51   really love to it as well this is the

00:49:53   video that you sent to me before the

00:49:55   show started of this again thing didn't

00:49:58   even occur to me but obviously there's

00:50:00   going to be records for how fast people

00:50:03   can summit yes and it seems like that

00:50:06   that was this guy specialty when I'm

00:50:08   watching this video it starts off by

00:50:09   he's saying oh you want to go quickly

00:50:11   but you can't make any mistakes

00:50:13   yeah and I'm just thinking like of

00:50:14   course that's any kind of climb you want

00:50:16   to get up quickly because you want to

00:50:17   get to the top or you want this

00:50:19   experience to be completed it didn't

00:50:22   occur to me that people would be racing

00:50:25   for time which just seems so crazy to me

00:50:28   it's that you're doing an already

00:50:30   dangerous thing and you're turning it

00:50:33   into a vertical race but the video is

00:50:37   very impressive to see him moving up the

00:50:40   mountain at quite a rapid pace it's an

00:50:43   impressive little video and I'll put it

00:50:44   in the show notes I'm pretty sure it's

00:50:46   the North Face of the Eiger which is

00:50:48   that the famous Face of the Eiger and is

00:50:50   also you always hear about North Face I

00:50:52   think that must come from the North Face

00:50:53   of the Eiger it's the famous difficult

00:50:55   climb he would go up with you know very

00:50:58   little equipment and super super fast so

00:51:01   when I saw that this person had died

00:51:03   oh that's the guy in that video isn't it

00:51:05   and I went back and sure enough so so

00:51:07   that was sad news that video is like

00:51:10   quite beautiful though isn't it like did

00:51:12   what did you think watching that video

00:51:14   like it's beautifully filmed it must be

00:51:16   really quite breathtaking to be in these

00:51:19   locations and and that that shot of him

00:51:21   right as he's like walking along the

00:51:24   crest of the mountain right toward

00:51:26   towards the peak it says I can't imagine

00:51:27   what that experience is like to have the

00:51:31   mountain plummeting down on on either

00:51:33   side of you as you're as you're walking

00:51:34   along this Ridge towards the top like it

00:51:36   must be an amazing experience well I'm

00:51:38   glad you said that that leads me to the

00:51:40   thing that this has had be thinking over

00:51:42   the last week or so obviously he died

00:51:45   falling off a mountain and when that

00:51:47   happens it's like well that's just a

00:51:49   total tragedy but he was a guy who was

00:51:52   very aware of the risk he talked a lot

00:51:53   about the risks of what he did he wasn't

00:51:55   like a cowboy he knew he was doing a

00:51:57   risky thing and he obviously made this

00:52:00   decision that it was worth it and when

00:52:03   you see that video and you see the sorts

00:52:04   of things he was experiencing it did

00:52:07   make me think about how do you make this

00:52:09   calculus of risk in your life versus

00:52:13   getting to experience that sort of

00:52:14   amazing stuff astronauts who walk go to

00:52:17   the moon people who do amazing things

00:52:19   and see amazing things but risk their

00:52:21   life doing it and like how does one make

00:52:24   that decision and it's very easy you

00:52:26   know the week after the person dies to

00:52:28   say well he made the wrong decision

00:52:29   because he's died at the age of 40 but

00:52:31   like I don't know I kind of think I get

00:52:34   why you were doing it but I think it was

00:52:35   and I kind of think it was worth the

00:52:37   risk

00:52:38   he you know he got to see and do lots of

00:52:40   amazing things that you and I will never

00:52:43   get to experience he got to experience

00:52:44   what it's like to go up that snow field

00:52:47   at the top of the Eiger on your own

00:52:48   after having just climbed the North Face

00:52:50   and that's pretty amazing stuff and I

00:52:52   guess you could say what counts for

00:52:53   nothing when you've died but I've been

00:52:55   thinking a lot about that calculus to

00:52:57   the last week or so because of his death

00:52:58   well we're all dust in the end Brady

00:53:00   like that doesn't change things but I

00:53:02   don't think a guy like this makes these

00:53:04   calculations I think people like this

00:53:06   are I mean this in the best possible way

00:53:09   I think they're total freaks

00:53:11   I think someone like this is

00:53:15   they're not doing any kind of like risk

00:53:17   reward calculation and feeling like I'll

00:53:19   see amazing things if I do this very

00:53:21   dangerous thing I think this is just a

00:53:22   person who was more or less born to do a

00:53:25   very extreme thing and you probably

00:53:27   couldn't possibly stop them whenever you

00:53:30   see people doing like really extreme

00:53:32   sports or or even things like astronauts

00:53:35   all right like someone becomes an

00:53:36   astronaut like those people are just

00:53:38   such extremely driven people as to be

00:53:43   such a small percentage of the human

00:53:45   population that it's it's just like of

00:53:47   course you were going to do something I

00:53:49   don't think this is a calculation as

00:53:51   happens in the human population like

00:53:54   there's going to be somebody who wants

00:53:55   to do this sort of thing they almost

00:53:58   can't help themselves I think I think

00:53:59   that's the way that works out okay is

00:54:02   that not what you want to hear Brady no

00:54:04   I mean yeah it makes sense um but I mean

00:54:07   I feel like I make the calculations like

00:54:08   I just I've gone to every Space Camp a

00:54:11   couple of times you know despite this

00:54:13   dicey Airport that some people are a bit

00:54:15   scared of and walking at the altitude

00:54:17   because I thought you know I waited up

00:54:20   and my desire to see this place and go

00:54:22   there was greater than mmm my fear that

00:54:24   you know I'd come to an untimely end but

00:54:27   on the other hand I really want to go

00:54:28   and see k2 and there's like a trip that

00:54:31   I've been looking into to go there

00:54:33   but it does involve going through a few

00:54:35   places that are not considered very safe

00:54:36   for sort of political reasons and I've

00:54:40   been put off that and I've decided not

00:54:41   to do that at the moment because I don't

00:54:43   think it's worth it you know when I've

00:54:45   weighed everything up so I feel like I

00:54:47   do make those decisions and I just

00:54:49   wonder yeah but precisely precisely you

00:54:52   making those decisions is the reason

00:54:54   that you're not doing speed runs up

00:54:56   Mount Everest right that's precisely

00:54:59   what I'm saying right as I like I don't

00:55:01   think that there's another person who's

00:55:02   doing the calculus in the other way like

00:55:04   yes no I think this is gonna be worth it

00:55:06   I think someone like this is just like I

00:55:08   got a client like I gotta climb

00:55:09   mountains fast and I just I don't know

00:55:11   why but I just have to do it like I

00:55:13   think that's what this is so you think

00:55:15   when he would do tall I know you haven't

00:55:17   followed his career or read interviews

00:55:19   with him but you think when he would do

00:55:20   talk about you know I'm aware of the

00:55:22   risks and I weigh things up you think

00:55:24   that's just lip service and really he

00:55:26   just had this drive that was

00:55:28   all-consuming

00:55:29   yeah lips lip service isn't exactly

00:55:32   right but it's like I just think that

00:55:33   the like the way the person's brain is

00:55:36   set up is doing this calculation in a

00:55:39   very different way than anybody else

00:55:40   would do it that's what I mean is like

00:55:42   the adrenaline reward wired in his brain

00:55:45   is like way higher than it would be for

00:55:48   somebody else right and it's also a

00:55:50   person who's probably had like just the

00:55:52   right experiences to be this sort of

00:55:55   person so that's what I mean by like

00:55:57   people who do this kind of stuff are

00:55:59   freaks in a particular way I often use

00:56:04   this example of like like Richard

00:56:06   Branson as a business person who I think

00:56:09   is this similar thing he's like oh he's

00:56:11   like a broken human being but he's

00:56:13   broken in such a way that he can't stop

00:56:16   starting businesses I think it's just

00:56:18   things like kind of hardwired into him

00:56:19   it's not a thing that's about whenever

00:56:22   you're looking at anybody who's in like

00:56:23   the top point Oh 1% of people in any

00:56:25   category you just it's crazy to think

00:56:28   that they'd be like a normal person

00:56:30   who's just decided to do something else

00:56:32   like I think all of those people are

00:56:34   sort of freaks who can't help themselves

00:56:37   that's why like you're saying they're

00:56:39   thinking about all the political

00:56:40   problems and wherever I need to fly

00:56:41   through to get to k2 like yeah that's

00:56:42   why you're not that's why you're not

00:56:44   climbing up k2 I mean maybe in your

00:56:46   retirement brain yeah you have more time

00:56:47   to it you'll you'll do things a little

00:56:49   bit differently but that's kind of my

00:56:51   take on it like I just don't think these

00:56:52   are normal people I think like

00:56:54   definitionally they have to not be

00:56:56   normal people he was the same age as me

00:56:58   oh really

00:56:59   and he twice won this award which is

00:57:02   like the Oscars of mountaineering I like

00:57:04   that there's like mountaineering has

00:57:05   this rewarded for you how does that even

00:57:06   mean the Oscars of mountaineering that

00:57:08   doesn't make any sense I can't pronounce

00:57:10   that the payload or which French for the

00:57:14   golden ice axe the annual mountaineering

00:57:16   award given by the French magazine

00:57:17   Montag's I don't understand how that

00:57:20   could work I think it's if you do

00:57:23   something that year that's like

00:57:24   pioneering lucky you know you piety or

00:57:26   some new route or you do you climb

00:57:28   something in a new way that hasn't been

00:57:30   done before it's like I don't know I'm

00:57:33   trying to I'm trying to get a nice

00:57:35   little precis of what it's given for but

00:57:36   I can't really find it anyway

00:57:39   there has been another death at base

00:57:41   camp he was attempting to become the

00:57:44   oldest man to climb Everest he had been

00:57:47   the oldest man before his record had

00:57:50   been taken from him so he was trying to

00:57:52   get it back and he was 85 and he died

00:57:56   bassist here he died he was Nepalese so

00:57:59   he was quite he was quite good at

00:58:01   altitude but he died at base camp they

00:58:04   think of a heart attack which you know

00:58:07   again very sad hard to be completely

00:58:09   shocked when someone really old dies

00:58:11   trying to climb the highest mountain in

00:58:13   the world yeah I'm not surprised when 85

00:58:16   year old man dies of a heart attack at

00:58:17   Everest base camp

00:58:19   that's not exactly shocking news no this

00:58:22   is the thing I wanted to ask you about

00:58:23   was that the authorities now in Nepal

00:58:27   are considering an age limit on people

00:58:30   climbing Everest you have to be over 16

00:58:32   to be allowed to climb Everest to get a

00:58:34   permit they're now considering putting a

00:58:36   limit on and for some reason I'm not

00:58:39   exactly sure why I've got a theory why

00:58:41   but I don't know they're thinking of

00:58:42   setting the limit as 76 so okay I need

00:58:49   to know your theory is what why do you

00:58:50   think 76 this Nepalese guy that would

00:58:53   held the record before did climber at

00:58:57   the age of 76 so I wonder if maybe

00:58:59   they're using that could the record know

00:59:01   is 80 a Japanese guy who was 80 broke

00:59:04   the REC broke the record but this this

00:59:07   Nepalese guy that used to have the

00:59:08   record was 76 when he did it so I wonder

00:59:10   if maybe that number is being used

00:59:12   somehow there could be other reasons I

00:59:14   don't know but what do you think about

00:59:15   setting an age limit on climbing Mount

00:59:18   Everest because you're all into like you

00:59:20   know freedom and people can do what they

00:59:22   want yeah stuff that seems crazy I mean

00:59:24   I there's a thing that I don't like

00:59:26   which is rules for what I imagine are

00:59:28   really rare circumstances how many

00:59:30   people over 65 are trying to climb

00:59:32   Everest every year how many people can

00:59:35   that possibly be I'm imagining it's not

00:59:37   a huge number and it's like if if

00:59:40   someone someone who is older wants to

00:59:42   try to climb Everest and presumably you

00:59:46   know you have to sign some waiver or

00:59:47   whatever be like yeah I know I'm

00:59:49   climbing Everest I know is going to be

00:59:50   dangerous like I don't I don't like this

00:59:52   kind of stuff

00:59:53   like why what what is the point of this

00:59:56   to stop people from dying on Everest

00:59:58   it's like well it seems like lots of

00:59:59   people

00:59:59   people

01:00:00   well died on Everest what difference

01:00:01   does it make if they dive they're old

01:00:02   well I can give you a point if you want

01:00:04   one just to make the argument and that

01:00:06   is when people get into strife on

01:00:08   Everest that actually can cause a lot of

01:00:11   other people strife because inevitably

01:00:13   sometimes they'll try to rescue them

01:00:15   it's very costly to try and rescue

01:00:17   people people can lose their life trying

01:00:20   to help other people who are losing

01:00:21   their life so getting more people on the

01:00:24   mountain who are incredibly likely to

01:00:26   get into strife has that implication you

01:00:30   know if you send someone up there who's

01:00:31   almost definitely going to get

01:00:32   themselves into trouble and then

01:00:34   everyone else is going to have to try to

01:00:35   save them suddenly you're risking a

01:00:36   whole bunch of other lives so that's

01:00:38   that's an argument I have a question for

01:00:40   you because I don't I don't know is

01:00:42   there some kind of qualification that

01:00:43   you need to do to climb Mount Everest

01:00:45   do you need to prove yourself physically

01:00:48   in some way I actually do not know the

01:00:50   answer to that famously that people

01:00:52   complain that you know any old tourist

01:00:54   can get dragged to the top practically

01:00:56   by their guides but I don't know how

01:00:59   much that's an exaggeration and you have

01:01:00   to prove some kind of ability I imagine

01:01:04   most of the companies that help you get

01:01:05   to the top of Everest would reply and

01:01:07   say yes we have a vetting process we

01:01:09   don't take any Tom Dick or Harry up

01:01:11   there how stringent that is I don't know

01:01:15   and I don't know I don't know that the

01:01:17   answer is I don't know I guess I mean

01:01:18   like what I'm wondering is like okay

01:01:20   let's say I go out and I buy some boots

01:01:21   and then I fly to Nepal and I all right

01:01:23   I'm walking up that mountain with what's

01:01:25   gonna stop me from doing that you would

01:01:26   have to get a permit from the government

01:01:28   okay to go above a certain height so if

01:01:30   you are not doing it with a company and

01:01:31   you're just going on your own right I

01:01:33   don't know how easy it is to get permits

01:01:37   for that and that I don't know what the

01:01:38   government would require from you I

01:01:40   don't know how they check so there

01:01:42   exists some sort of permit yes to go

01:01:44   above a certain height like I went to

01:01:46   base camp if I when I was there I sat or

01:01:48   I think I got the kubu ice fault and see

01:01:50   how far I can get I would be breaking

01:01:51   the law okay like that was as far as I'm

01:01:53   allowed to go without a permit right and

01:01:55   then the Everest police would grab you

01:01:57   when they bridge whenever is Jail okay

01:01:58   and the permits are super expensive all

01:02:02   right my feeling and this is whatever

01:02:05   you need to get the permit like that

01:02:06   that should I just don't like this

01:02:08   artificial like for your own good rule I

01:02:12   would be totally fine if

01:02:13   there was like Oh as part of the permit

01:02:15   process when you arrived in Nepal

01:02:17   there's a exercise room and you have to

01:02:20   be able to complete a certain number of

01:02:21   physical tasks to demonstrate that

01:02:23   you're able to do this right yeah and I

01:02:25   was like that's that's fine that's

01:02:26   totally fine like I wouldn't have any

01:02:28   problem with that I don't like the age

01:02:31   limit seems to be arbitrary yeah it

01:02:33   seems a bit arbitrary right but it's

01:02:35   like if you have to go into a room and

01:02:36   you have to be able to do 100 pushups

01:02:37   yeah and if you can't do 100 pushups

01:02:39   they don't let you climb the mountain

01:02:41   yeah that seems fine right I would be

01:02:44   okay with that if a bunch of pensioners

01:02:46   want to freeze to death on Mount Everest

01:02:48   thumbs up from greater that that's fine

01:02:51   as someone who's a little bit fascinated

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01:03:28   here's my recommendation a man on the

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01:03:39   it's absolutely first-rate and formed

01:03:41   the basis for HBO's later miniseries

01:03:44   from the earth to the moon

01:03:45   jaqen had great access to all the main

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01:03:54   on the moon by Andrew Chaikin

01:03:55   check it out and why not check it out

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01:04:23   man on the moon as much as I did or if

01:04:25   that's not your cup of tea you can

01:04:27   choose any

01:04:27   other title as your freebie I finally

01:04:31   met someone who made a strong case for

01:04:32   the Apple watch

01:04:33   really I almost feel a little bit

01:04:35   insulted by the way you started this

01:04:36   conversation because I feel like how

01:04:38   many times have we discussed here we've

01:04:39   discussed this many times Gray has often

01:04:41   over dinner and over a drink

01:04:43   you know women not podcasting I

01:04:45   sometimes say to gray gray sell me on

01:04:47   the Apple watch and he tells me why he

01:04:49   likes it how it fits in with his life I

01:04:51   understand the logic of the things that

01:04:54   gray says the honey makes sense and like

01:04:57   okay you know if that's if that's how

01:05:00   your brain works and that's what you

01:05:01   want I can get it but the case you make

01:05:04   never seems compelling enough to me it

01:05:06   doesn't it just never lands and they're

01:05:08   really like like even in your case I

01:05:10   think the things you're saying it helps

01:05:13   you with don't seem strong enough to me

01:05:15   for what I think the pleasure I imagine

01:05:17   you could get from having like a nicer

01:05:19   watch that's just me that's just me no

01:05:22   it is like I wanted to get you on record

01:05:24   for that because I do always think it's

01:05:26   funny because it's it's not just that

01:05:27   you find my reasons unconvincing for you

01:05:30   you find my reasons unconvincing for me

01:05:33   yeah I kind of play I kind of do I can't

01:05:35   I mean obviously it's your decision and

01:05:37   obviously the case is compelling enough

01:05:39   because you wear an Apple watch and you

01:05:40   don't wear the other watch but I feel

01:05:42   almost a bit I know it sounds really

01:05:43   arrogant but I feel almost like if only

01:05:45   you knew but I know like I know yeah we

01:05:49   have is like I can see it in your little

01:05:50   baby eyes yeah but you're thinking like

01:05:52   Oh gray I know better than you on this

01:05:55   topic and if only I get that's how I

01:05:58   feel that's how I feel but I spoke to

01:06:00   someone the other day thinking it would

01:06:01   the discussion would go the same way and

01:06:03   at the end of it I was like now okay you

01:06:05   should have an Apple watch okay I have

01:06:08   to know what is this argument well he

01:06:10   was the person driving me to the airport

01:06:12   okay so he's our like a car driver

01:06:15   he runs a car service for a living and

01:06:18   he used to have nice watches and then it

01:06:23   was an Apple watch tumbler why do you

01:06:24   why do you wear the Apple watch tell me

01:06:25   and the two reasons that seemed

01:06:28   completely compelling to me and they

01:06:30   were both relating to his work one is

01:06:33   he's always driving and just being able

01:06:36   to fix his wrist while still holding the

01:06:38   steering wheel to see what's going on

01:06:40   is a strong case as opposed to fishing a

01:06:42   phone out which is not only dangerous

01:06:44   but it's illegal mm-hmm and I don't want

01:06:46   any driver fishing their telephone out

01:06:48   and checking their phone all the time

01:06:49   but he can just flick his wrist at the

01:06:51   wheel and he's driving all day long row

01:06:53   so but the second part of that is is the

01:06:57   business case he's self-employed he

01:06:59   needs to get bookings it's an industry

01:07:01   where booking cars I'm like this if I

01:07:04   try to book a car with someone and they

01:07:05   don't get back to me really quickly

01:07:07   I'll just book one with someone else

01:07:08   because I want to get it done so he

01:07:10   can't afford to miss opportunities so he

01:07:14   needs notifications to him are so

01:07:17   important and he's driving all the time

01:07:19   so being notified every time an email

01:07:22   comes in from someone who might want to

01:07:24   book him seems really compelling and

01:07:27   like it would start to hurt his business

01:07:29   if he was missing those messages those

01:07:31   emails and those opportunities so the

01:07:33   fact he's always driving combined with

01:07:36   his really really compelling need for

01:07:39   notifications which I think's much

01:07:41   stronger than your need for

01:07:42   notifications as you've told me he sold

01:07:44   me on and I was like all right I still

01:07:46   think your watch looks a bit Nath

01:07:48   but I see why you're wearing it it

01:07:53   sounds like you're just making a case

01:07:54   for distracted driving that's what it

01:07:55   sounds like that's like a prayer so I'm

01:07:57   listening this is like this guy doesn't

01:07:59   need an Apple watch that the all I'm

01:08:00   hearing is like I'd be trying to talk

01:08:02   this guy out of his Apple watch that

01:08:03   sounds it's like oh great now I've got a

01:08:05   guy who's looking at his watch a hundred

01:08:07   times while he's driving this is no good

01:08:08   hey dude look at his watch once the

01:08:10   whole trip but I was soda I was Arthur

01:08:12   okay I can't visit the worst argument in

01:08:15   the world and this is what you feel like

01:08:16   you finally see someone has a compelling

01:08:18   reason to use the Apple watch I can't

01:08:20   believe this no because you are like a

01:08:22   bit

01:08:22   mumsy about safety you're thinking mom

01:08:24   say something something that is this

01:08:26   slanderous there's a slanderous

01:08:28   accusation where you are a bit you are a

01:08:30   bit of a little you're a bit careful so

01:08:32   I think so when I tell this story you're

01:08:34   set you're seeing the horror of someone

01:08:36   looking at their watchin crashing

01:08:37   whereas I see more just a glance oh

01:08:40   that's something I need to deal with and

01:08:42   I will you know at the next petrol

01:08:44   station I don't see it as a safety

01:08:46   concern but I can see how the gray eyes

01:08:49   of safety are seeing it somewhat

01:08:51   differently he could just he could just

01:08:53   check his phone at the pet

01:08:54   no station instead this is a keg I feel

01:08:56   infuriated that this is the argument you

01:08:58   feel like is landed for you for an Apple

01:09:00   watch this is crazy this is crazy

01:09:02   Wow I think people using their phones

01:09:04   while driving is like really really bad

01:09:06   yeah of course and at least this is a

01:09:08   bit safer and you're never going to stop

01:09:11   people connecting while driving you just

01:09:14   can't do it it's an impossible it's

01:09:15   impossible gray like you cannot stop

01:09:19   people wanting to check emails and

01:09:21   Internet's and things and social media

01:09:23   while driving it just can't be done and

01:09:26   if the watch like scales that back a

01:09:28   little bit okay I'll take it I'll take

01:09:32   it okay so you're doing this thing is

01:09:34   like it's not that he's going to be a

01:09:35   responsible person and check his

01:09:37   notifications at the petrol station you

01:09:39   are saying it's less distracting for him

01:09:41   using the watch but he's still doing a

01:09:43   bad thing that's what you feel like here

01:09:45   that's your argument

01:09:45   I'm not doing anything I'm trying to say

01:09:48   something I'm trying to say something

01:09:50   nice about the stupid Kaka toy Apple

01:09:53   watch for once and you're slapping me

01:09:55   down because this is a little chunky

01:09:58   silly thing and I'm like I'm trying to

01:10:01   throw you a bone and now you're saying

01:10:03   he should check his phone at the petrol

01:10:04   station okay and get yourself a nice

01:10:06   watch too while you're at it that's what

01:10:08   I'm thinking this guy should this guy

01:10:09   should be checking his phone at the

01:10:10   petrol station and he should get a nice

01:10:12   watch so I just disagree disagree we can

01:10:15   never we can never come to a meeting of

01:10:17   the minds on the Apple watch Brady until

01:10:19   eventually one of these days you will

01:10:21   end up with a SmartWatch just like I

01:10:23   know you will it's only a matter of time

01:10:24   so Brady I need an update on something a

01:10:29   little bit more first-hand journalism

01:10:31   hmm I know you've been to the US and I

01:10:34   probably have very many US stories but

01:10:36   there's one thing that I want to know

01:10:37   which is tell me are the at-ats are they

01:10:42   still a Dulles are they still there they

01:10:45   most certainly are

01:10:46   oh thank god yeah so I've just been

01:10:49   there it was my first time at Dulles now

01:10:54   gray has spoken rather negatively about

01:10:57   Washington Dulles Airport uh-huh over

01:11:00   the course of this podcast it's true

01:11:03   Stan he made it sound pretty terrible so

01:11:07   this was my first

01:11:08   saying it with my own eyes and I have to

01:11:10   say I'm inclined to agree with gray okay

01:11:15   thank God I was like I was I was wait I

01:11:17   could feel myself building up like this

01:11:19   this tension because I don't like Brady

01:11:21   Brady's gonna spout a bunch of nonsense

01:11:23   about how it's not so bad and he's hard

01:11:25   as nails okay so but you're on my side

01:11:28   with this one I arrived but I was a

01:11:29   little bit excited I was going to get to

01:11:31   see these ATS maybe if they were still

01:11:33   operating we didn't know if that there

01:11:34   was there were rumors that they were no

01:11:35   longer operating because of some train

01:11:37   that's being built but anyway I got off

01:11:40   my plane and I didn't quite realize how

01:11:43   these ATS would work but it was like we

01:11:46   were a bunch of dazed prisoners being

01:11:50   led off the plane and before we could

01:11:52   even like get our feet and figure out

01:11:54   we're going you'll kind of Shepherd it

01:11:56   around this steep corner into this

01:11:58   holding area and then like cattle you

01:12:02   have shuffled into through this door and

01:12:04   you don't know what the door was to okay

01:12:06   don't worry no it's not obvious where

01:12:08   you're going and like you're not

01:12:10   prepared for it don't say you're gonna

01:12:11   get put on this thing there's no like

01:12:13   chance to do anything else and suddenly

01:12:15   you're in this weird room with carpeted

01:12:19   walls that doesn't even seem like a

01:12:22   vehicle mm-hmm and then it does it's a

01:12:25   weird thing where it changes its height

01:12:27   and starts driving the lack of

01:12:30   communication about what's going on when

01:12:32   you've just gotten off a long-haul

01:12:33   flight it was really disappointing so

01:12:35   anyway I chugged along in the app and I

01:12:38   saw all the other ones crawling around

01:12:40   and that was kind of cool I mean it was

01:12:41   kind of otherworldly because I got this

01:12:43   sort of late at night so seeing these

01:12:47   things crawling all around the airport

01:12:48   was kind of cool I was just one gate

01:12:50   away from the cursed gate which I think

01:12:53   was b50 I saw it from a distance but I

01:12:56   didn't get to take a photo of oh and

01:12:58   then I got and then the adapter posited

01:13:00   us at the arrivals you know immigration

01:13:03   area which again was kind of not a very

01:13:06   pleasant place and not a very pleasant

01:13:08   experience these places really are to be

01:13:10   honest but this was particularly bad and

01:13:12   they were pretty rubbish with what

01:13:14   queues to put us in and then I got moved

01:13:16   from Q to Q and I was thinking ah this

01:13:18   couldn't get any worse and just when I

01:13:20   thought it couldn't get any worse

01:13:21   almost as if gray had arranged it that a

01:13:24   little kid a little tiny kid standing

01:13:27   next to me some toddler suddenly got

01:13:29   down on his haunches and started

01:13:30   vomiting before so some so I'm waiting

01:13:34   in queue next to a pile of vomit Dallas

01:13:38   [Laughter]

01:13:41   you know I'd like to be sympathetic but

01:13:43   no no this that's like though nobody is

01:13:47   sympathetic to children when they're

01:13:48   traveling right this is like lose a kid

01:13:50   your only job is to be quiet and that's

01:13:53   it to be quiet I know don't don't expel

01:13:57   anything from your body right yeah just

01:13:59   be silent and miserable like the rest of

01:14:01   us yeah so like I finally got through

01:14:04   and got my bag and then I had to join

01:14:06   some other queue with my bag which was

01:14:08   even longer than the immigration queue

01:14:10   where they just wanted to take a piece

01:14:12   of paper off me and let me continue so

01:14:15   and then you know and then I ordered my

01:14:17   uber and my uber guy phoned me up and

01:14:19   wanted to figure out where I was going

01:14:20   and just obviously decided I wasn't a

01:14:22   good fare and canceled on me so I was

01:14:24   having over problems as well I'm falling

01:14:26   out of love with you but I can tell you

01:14:28   that right now

01:14:28   yeah and but that's a whole other story

01:14:30   there anyway so my Dulles experience was

01:14:34   terrible and when I left Washington

01:14:36   I went via Ronald Reagan Airport which

01:14:39   is lovely I'm realizing that you didn't

01:14:41   actually you were barely in the CD

01:14:44   terminals I didn't even have you know

01:14:46   experience all the things you hate about

01:14:47   it I had a quite limited exposure and

01:14:50   even that put me offer it is now on the

01:14:52   list of places that hello internet

01:14:55   listeners can check off that they've

01:14:57   gone to on a worldwide - hello internets

01:15:00   scavenger hunt

01:15:02   I guess so I'm glad I'm glad now that

01:15:04   all this have been there yeah that's

01:15:06   exactly what it is yeah I'm glad the

01:15:08   both of us have been there

01:15:09   so yeah I'm fun for you I'm sorry that a

01:15:12   child vomited in line I'm sorry that

01:15:14   you're falling out of love with uber it

01:15:16   sounds like difficult travels but did

01:15:17   you make it to your math festival on

01:15:19   time I did I enjoyed Washington it was

01:15:22   only my second time I'd spent any time

01:15:23   there and I really enjoyed her mm-hmm I

01:15:26   was there for this national math

01:15:28   festival which was interesting it was

01:15:30   really good it was I really loved it

01:15:32   it coincided with the March for science

01:15:34   which was held in Washington

01:15:35   which I think there was some worry that

01:15:37   it might sort of you know the Nerds

01:15:39   might do the match for science instead

01:15:40   of the math festival but I think the two

01:15:42   sort of played off each other quite well

01:15:44   and luckily for the math festival it

01:15:46   absolutely poured with rain in

01:15:47   Washington that day so I think a lot of

01:15:49   people who were thinking I'll do the

01:15:51   March and then go to the festival or

01:15:52   I'll go to the festival and go to the

01:15:53   match thought bugger that I'm just going

01:15:55   to go to the math festival that's why I

01:15:57   thought maybe the winners for them I

01:16:00   love that Lee who have come all the way

01:16:02   to protest oh but it's raining

01:16:04   how much do I really care turns out not

01:16:07   rains worth much it was a great success

01:16:10   that match for science anyway and I must

01:16:12   speak positively about it if only

01:16:13   because our friend Duke from the Vatican

01:16:15   was one of their like hosts of it and I

01:16:18   didn't catch up with him for a drink in

01:16:19   Washington the wave function that is

01:16:21   Dirk did spread to Washington so I got

01:16:24   to see him while I was there I didn't

01:16:25   know he was there for that yeah he was

01:16:27   the guy he was the guy up on the stage

01:16:29   you know showboating around in the dry

01:16:31   no doubt covered by the stage yeah ya

01:16:33   know for for that pretty face they can't

01:16:35   let him get wet no that's not happened

01:16:37   exactly as sunshine machines at the top

01:16:40   of the stage to keep him nice and warm

01:16:41   I'm sure that's how that works

01:16:42   so now you feel like you have to speak

01:16:44   positively about it that's funny

01:16:45   interesting I can show a bit of

01:16:47   solidarity so the math festival well I

01:16:52   obviously got there early mm-hmm and I

01:16:55   had to do these like three presentations

01:16:57   two of them with Matt Parker and one

01:16:59   with cliff style who have people in

01:17:01   might numberphile videos and there was

01:17:04   just like really big room that we were

01:17:06   doing it in and like I'm thinking

01:17:08   there's no way people are going to come

01:17:10   to this room hmm I get really nervous

01:17:12   about that like I just imagine like

01:17:14   three people turning up because I'm like

01:17:16   who's going to want to come to this and

01:17:18   then after that I knew I had to do this

01:17:20   slacker they'd set up this kind of

01:17:23   meet-and-greet thing for me like meet

01:17:25   Brady from numberphile which I was a bit

01:17:27   uneasy about and I want it to be as

01:17:29   low-key as possible and then I went to

01:17:32   the place where it was going to happen

01:17:33   which was this huge area at the

01:17:35   Convention Center in Washington that I

01:17:37   swear was three times bigger than an

01:17:41   aircraft hangar and then there's this

01:17:44   one tiny desk over on the side with a

01:17:46   sign saying meet Brady from numberphile

01:17:48   and like a chair and like ropes and

01:17:50   stuff and I'm like why their ropes that

01:17:54   makes it like you do not need crowd

01:17:56   control this is not going to be a big

01:17:58   thing I felt really like really uneasy

01:18:00   about it and really embarrassed about it

01:18:02   hmm so so luckily lots of people came to

01:18:06   the presentations there was a really

01:18:08   good audience there were lots of Tim's

01:18:11   my met the guy that does nerd stats on

01:18:13   reddit okay you complain to him about

01:18:16   that worth the weight measurement the

01:18:17   terribly means worth the weight

01:18:19   measurement I didn't I didn't really get

01:18:20   time to discuss that but if I had I

01:18:22   would have he was disappointingly normal

01:18:25   I was hoping he'd be a bit nerdy abut

01:18:27   anyway he seemed kind of normal but

01:18:29   anyway anyway so I met lots of Tim's saw

01:18:33   a few nailing gears around the place and

01:18:35   then I went up like a three o'clock

01:18:38   whatever I went up to this desk well I

01:18:41   was going to have to sit for hours which

01:18:42   I thought was going to be the most

01:18:43   embarrassing moment of my life and I was

01:18:45   going to be sitting at a table for like

01:18:46   three hours on mine there are a few

01:18:48   people milling there when I got there so

01:18:51   I'm like hi and liked it signed a few

01:18:53   things and did a few selfies and then

01:18:55   amazingly like it was never like a long

01:18:59   key like a you know VidCon where like a

01:19:01   thousand screaming people line up to

01:19:03   meet some vlogger but there was always

01:19:06   just like 10 people like for the whole

01:19:09   three hours like I think people would

01:19:12   come along and think other queue there's

01:19:14   a key oh there's no queue I'll join the

01:19:15   queue now so like for the whole three

01:19:17   hours that never stopped like I was able

01:19:19   to just spend three hours meeting people

01:19:21   which was nice and also incredible

01:19:24   relief for my like personal pride really

01:19:27   really what I love I love this stuff

01:19:30   because it's like it's like you don't

01:19:33   know who you are Brady if you're worried

01:19:35   you worry did all these events that

01:19:36   nobody is going to show up but you want

01:19:38   like you're the mighty Brady Haran yeah

01:19:40   you are a number file at a math

01:19:43   convention like you think nobody's gonna

01:19:45   show up

01:19:45   to say hello like do you have any

01:19:47   concept of who you are in the situation

01:19:50   I'm amazed at that you weren't mobbed

01:19:52   right the fans didn't dare you limb from

01:19:53   limb screaming and excitement to see you

01:19:55   there right it's like it's it's just

01:19:58   it's so funny to me cuz like I saw the

01:20:00   same thing at VidCon really like wonder

01:20:02   anybody's gonna show but like now dude

01:20:03   like you're Brady Haran you had a math

01:20:06   convention like I think you're going to

01:20:07   be fine for a meet-and-greet like I

01:20:09   think you're gonna be just fine all

01:20:12   right that's not that's that's fair

01:20:14   enough

01:20:14   but having said that and they were quite

01:20:17   and quite a few hello Internet listeners

01:20:18   came just for hello Internet I probably

01:20:20   went who probably weren't numberphile

01:20:22   fans but my favorite people who lined up

01:20:25   and there were a few of these and I

01:20:27   remain bamboos would buy them people who

01:20:29   were waiting in line for maybe you know

01:20:32   15 20 minutes because sometimes I would

01:20:34   talk to people for a while and someone

01:20:36   would get to the front of the queue and

01:20:38   I'd say hey how are you mm-hmm and they

01:20:41   would say to me yeah I'm good thanks who

01:20:44   are you I saw this queue of people or

01:20:46   people wanting to know so I thought okay

01:20:48   I want to find out who you are and that

01:20:50   I would have to like to a total stranger

01:20:51   who've been waiting in queue to meet me

01:20:54   I would have to say oh well my name's

01:20:56   Brady and I make these YouTube videos

01:20:57   about mathematics and some people like

01:21:00   them they're like oh really oh that

01:21:01   sounds really interesting how long have

01:21:02   you been doing that for and I talk to

01:21:04   them for like five minutes they had no

01:21:06   idea who I was and then and then there

01:21:09   would be oh can I have a picture with

01:21:10   you I'm like yeah of course you can't or

01:21:13   can I have a signature yeah yeah you can

01:21:16   yeah and then they would just walk away

01:21:17   I feel like I can't believe that that's

01:21:20   real it's true it happened three times

01:21:22   one of them was a family it was a mum

01:21:24   with like all her kids and then I had to

01:21:26   like have pictures with the kids and

01:21:28   none of them knew who I was I really

01:21:30   almost can't believe that what kind of

01:21:32   person would do that and I were just

01:21:34   saying a cue and thought maybe I was

01:21:35   someone interesting or famous but like

01:21:38   it's not like this is Soviet Russia and

01:21:39   you see a line and you just have to get

01:21:40   on the back of it because maybe they'll

01:21:42   be bred like it there I don't oh my god

01:21:45   I don't know I cannot him okay I mean I

01:21:49   was grateful for them because they kind

01:21:50   of you know patted out the line a bit

01:21:51   but but I've kind of felt a bit sorry

01:21:54   for I would find out the strangest

01:21:56   moment to be in a way justifying the

01:22:00   existence of the line to see you like

01:22:03   someone gets at the friend like you

01:22:05   don't seem that impressive who are you

01:22:07   that is so weird I can't believe that

01:22:10   that happens at all let alone like if

01:22:12   you told me one person did it I'd be

01:22:13   like well obviously there's some

01:22:14   lunatics

01:22:15   in this world but three people hmm

01:22:18   that's one an hour on average I don't

01:22:21   understand how those people can exist

01:22:22   that is very strange to me I'm sorry

01:22:26   that you had to go through that so from

01:22:29   Washington I went on to Miami and like

01:22:33   I'm not going to talk for ages about

01:22:34   Miami but it was a weird place also were

01:22:42   there expectations that you are going to

01:22:43   talk for ages about Miami because

01:22:45   everybody knows it's a place that you

01:22:46   talk a lot about I have never been to

01:22:47   Miami tell me how about a Brady I'm not

01:22:49   going to go too much into Miami because

01:22:51   you know I don't want to turn hello

01:22:52   internet into what Brady did in his

01:22:54   holiday but there was one thing that

01:22:57   struck me as interesting and this was I

01:23:00   mean probably the thing that's most

01:23:03   famous for and its greatest essay is

01:23:05   it's lovely big long beautiful beach big

01:23:09   long sandy beach beautiful water always

01:23:11   great weather all the hotels look out at

01:23:15   the beach I had a hotel room looking out

01:23:16   over the beach everyone sits by the

01:23:18   pools at their hotel that are oriented

01:23:20   so you can look out over the beach or

01:23:21   you sit on the beach itself mm-hmm and

01:23:23   everyone gazes this marvelous Vista so

01:23:26   being America obviously this is seen as

01:23:29   an advertising opportunity and they have

01:23:32   lots and lots of planes dragging ads

01:23:35   behind them and I actually quite like

01:23:37   that I find that quite quite quaint and

01:23:40   I'm in favor of those planes dragging

01:23:44   ads through the sky on one condition

01:23:47   they have to be those ads that are like

01:23:49   made of like letters that have obviously

01:23:51   been you know taken from a stockpile of

01:23:54   letters and they just rearrange the

01:23:56   letters depending on who the advertiser

01:23:57   is you know that you know that cliche

01:23:59   kind of I'm talking about right well I

01:24:01   get would you want letter like you you

01:24:03   want letterpress here like like a

01:24:05   Gutenberg rearrangement of the letters

01:24:07   for the advertisement because what

01:24:09   happens now is some of the planes are

01:24:10   dragging behind them like these huge

01:24:12   obviously like silk-screened posters

01:24:14   with like pictures of women holding

01:24:16   machine guns saying come to our firing

01:24:18   range and that sounds pretty awesome I

01:24:20   think I could be sold on that that one

01:24:23   was awesome but generally those ones I

01:24:25   don't approve of it's a bit too

01:24:26   high-tech but when there's those ones

01:24:28   just like dragging

01:24:29   like letters I feel like I've gone like

01:24:31   to the 1960s or something and it's quite

01:24:33   I feel like I'm in like Scarface or

01:24:36   something and I'm back in Miami in some

01:24:37   cool time okay but it but if it's like a

01:24:39   bottom third banner advertisement on a

01:24:42   YouTube video that's not cool

01:24:44   that you don't like yeah what I want the

01:24:46   letters I want the printing press

01:24:47   letters so they're okay but there's

01:24:49   another kind of advert that I was

01:24:51   horrified by and that was every sort of

01:24:54   20 minutes or so probably about a

01:24:57   hundred 200 meters out to see this

01:25:01   slowly chugging boat goes along like you

01:25:04   know from right to left and then left to

01:25:06   right along the whole stretch of the

01:25:08   beach with this giant TV screen facing

01:25:11   back to all the people on the land

01:25:13   playing video ads at them and it just

01:25:15   chugs along and you've got to watch all

01:25:17   these video ads from this advertising

01:25:19   boat that just chugs up and down the

01:25:21   beach all day and I do not approve of

01:25:23   that I'm gonna say that might be one of

01:25:25   the most offensive kind of ads I've ever

01:25:28   heard it was terrible

01:25:29   it was terrible I cannot believe they're

01:25:31   allowed to do it I think right below

01:25:33   that the kind of ad that always bothered

01:25:35   me the most is and it particularly see

01:25:37   the minute in in Las Vegas is they have

01:25:41   these in quotation marks I wanna say

01:25:43   like trucks like their little trucks but

01:25:45   on the back of them they're carrying

01:25:47   nothing except a gigantic vertical

01:25:49   poster right in either direction and

01:25:51   those things always bother me because it

01:25:52   feel like your whole job little truck is

01:25:54   to drive up and down some of the busiest

01:25:58   streets in a city just causing more

01:26:01   traffic while advertising you offend me

01:26:03   here at least don't have the

01:26:04   advertisement be actively in the way of

01:26:06   everybody else on the road and I've seen

01:26:09   them in London every once in a while too

01:26:10   and I was like those really bother me

01:26:11   but to have someone essentially

01:26:13   literally drag a TV across an ocean view

01:26:17   yeah I feel it I would make me furious

01:26:22   if I was on vacation that is horrific

01:26:24   it's the way you know it's your thing

01:26:26   it's their beautiful thing it's why

01:26:27   you're there and like I like I said I

01:26:29   can get on board with the planes because

01:26:32   I don't know it's like from another era

01:26:34   but the TV screens that's like a crime

01:26:37   against humanity

01:26:38   that's that looked like to me come on

01:26:39   Miami sort yourself out yeah those

01:26:41   things

01:26:44   quick sports ball corner gray doesn't

01:26:47   involve a bowl this is from the world of

01:26:49   athletics and something that I thought

01:26:52   you might find interesting

01:26:53   mm-hmm and there is obviously you know

01:26:56   who wins things is quite important in

01:26:58   athletics you get your gold medals and

01:26:59   stuff but a sub important thing about

01:27:01   athletics is who has the World Records

01:27:03   who has you know run the fastest 100

01:27:06   meters or who was throwing the javelin

01:27:07   the farthest right now because of all

01:27:10   the problems that athletics has been

01:27:13   having with doping and things like that

01:27:15   and drug cheats a controversial proposal

01:27:18   seems to be close to becoming a thing

01:27:21   and that is they are thinking of

01:27:24   scrubbing the record books of any world

01:27:28   record that was set before 2005 and

01:27:32   that's because before 2005 they didn't

01:27:35   keep samples since then they do keep

01:27:38   samples so as they come up with like

01:27:39   better drug tests and better ways of

01:27:41   finding cheats you mean they can run in

01:27:43   blood samples I think blood or urine and

01:27:46   things like that I'm not sure exactly

01:27:47   sure which I think I think that's the

01:27:49   reason I'm pretty sure that's the reason

01:27:51   so basically the rule the rules are such

01:27:54   for World Records to be recognized it

01:27:57   has to have been achieved at a

01:27:58   competition that's unlike a list of

01:28:00   approved events where I guess they have

01:28:01   you know the right clocks and tape

01:28:03   measures and stuff right the athlete has

01:28:05   to have been subject to an agreed number

01:28:07   of doping control tests in the months

01:28:09   leading up to the event okay

01:28:11   and the doping control sample that was

01:28:13   taken from them after they set their

01:28:15   record has to have been stored and

01:28:17   available for retesting for ten years

01:28:20   and basically up until 2005 that didn't

01:28:24   happen since then they've had these more

01:28:26   stringent requirements so I think for

01:28:28   like the integrity of the sport because

01:28:30   some of the some of these World Records

01:28:32   for example the world records set by

01:28:33   Florence Griffith Joyner who was a

01:28:36   American sprinter and her records are

01:28:39   considered pretty suspect but they still

01:28:41   stand they've decided we can say that

01:28:44   because she's died so we can defame her

01:28:46   but anyway is that how that works okay

01:28:50   yeah all right that's okay I'm not

01:28:52   better than this I don't know how that

01:28:53   in caves in defamation so what they've

01:28:56   said is for sort of the integrity of

01:28:58   these records they've decided to take

01:29:00   this heavy-handed broad brush approach

01:29:03   and say let's just wipe out all the

01:29:05   records from before 2005 and of course a

01:29:08   whole bunch of people who probably are

01:29:10   clean and certainly say they're clean

01:29:12   are saying hang on this is really unfair

01:29:14   we're losing all our world records but

01:29:17   this is the decision that there seem to

01:29:18   be coming to let's wipe the slate clean

01:29:21   start World Records from then I was

01:29:24   wondering what you would think of this

01:29:25   this is an interesting decision my first

01:29:27   impression is you're telling me that

01:29:29   somewhere in the world there's a vault

01:29:31   with ten years worth of athlete's blood

01:29:35   and urine samples like this that's what

01:29:38   I'm getting out of this story's like

01:29:39   somewhere they have these samples stored

01:29:42   that is weird

01:29:43   that is really weird to think about I

01:29:45   think they would only keep the ones of

01:29:46   people who have like won the medals and

01:29:49   set the World Records I don't think like

01:29:51   anyone who ever does anything has

01:29:52   everything kept although I imagine they

01:29:54   must have to try and keep 4th and 5th

01:29:56   and 6th maybe they do it for all the

01:29:57   finalists you've gotta keep a few right

01:30:00   because we're gonna we're gonna go back

01:30:01   in time and we're going to reset who's

01:30:03   the record you're gonna have to test

01:30:04   who's number two as well right yeah

01:30:06   otherwise you're just filming the lead

01:30:08   golfer all the time right and that's no

01:30:09   good

01:30:09   to film everybody okay so after you get

01:30:12   over the shock of the way in the blood

01:30:14   no but isn't that interesting to you

01:30:15   like do you think they're all in one

01:30:16   place where do you think they I want to

01:30:18   know where their caps I don't know I've

01:30:20   seen like reports and stuff before from

01:30:22   these facilities that do this it's like

01:30:23   a whole industry you know checking

01:30:25   athlete's samples for doping they always

01:30:28   just look like big giant labs with

01:30:30   fridges and freezers and if they decide

01:30:32   to pass this new rule and then let's say

01:30:36   one of the facilities that's storing all

01:30:37   of the blood and urine burns to the

01:30:39   ground do all of those people then lose

01:30:41   their record there is an interesting

01:30:43   question I think I think maybe there's a

01:30:45   degree of higher powers there and people

01:30:48   would say well that's not your fault

01:30:49   you're not going to lose your record for

01:30:50   that I think this 2005 thing is they've

01:30:53   said we didn't really get our act

01:30:55   together in terms of you know having

01:30:57   good mechanisms in place to stop

01:30:59   cheating into 2005 let's make that our

01:31:03   new start point let's reset the clock

01:31:05   you know and if there's a whole bunch of

01:31:07   people who are saying they're sort of

01:31:08   innocent victims but I mean I mean World

01:31:11   Records are funny things anyway because

01:31:13   it's not like they're it like you don't

01:31:15   get medals for having a world record

01:31:16   they're just like they're just pieces of

01:31:18   information anyway yeah and even if

01:31:21   someone new has the world record for the

01:31:22   hundred meters

01:31:23   women's hundred meters everyone's going

01:31:26   to know it was run quicker you know in

01:31:28   2002 but that one doesn't count yeah

01:31:30   everyone's everyone's going to know that

01:31:32   yeah that's how that works

01:31:34   hmm I thought it was an interesting

01:31:35   decision that you might have thoughts on

01:31:37   because I I never really know where you

01:31:38   stand on drugs in sport anyway I kind of

01:31:40   part of me thinks you think maybe there

01:31:42   okay so I'm pro doping really yeah it

01:31:47   seems like a stupid arbitrary thing to

01:31:50   say like oh we can do all of these

01:31:52   things that are sports training which

01:31:55   are all about manipulating the chemicals

01:31:57   inside your body

01:31:58   through physical means yeah and you can

01:32:00   eat healthy food oh that's not fair you

01:32:02   ate too many carrots that's making you

01:32:04   really strong it's dumb like I'm all in

01:32:06   favor of doping I don't even mean that

01:32:08   as a joke I won a hundred percent I'm in

01:32:10   favor of doping I think it's it's dumb

01:32:13   that it's not allowed point people then

01:32:16   like put their own lives at risk as I

01:32:17   sort of push themselves to the limit own

01:32:19   sports be more exciting when people are

01:32:21   at people's lives are on the line or the

01:32:24   game what's the downside here alright it

01:32:26   seems like it's all upside the sport

01:32:27   gets more exciting you're gonna have

01:32:29   more impressive physical feats which is

01:32:31   the whole purpose of it I have no

01:32:33   problem with this I've no problem with

01:32:34   this whatsoever

01:32:35   well it amuses me that you think that I

01:32:38   think it would be a little bit

01:32:39   irresponsible if we allowed doping in

01:32:42   sport yeah cuz sport is filled with

01:32:43   nothing but responsible necessary

01:32:46   responsible field it's all aboveboard

01:32:49   everything's fine there's nothing you're

01:32:51   responsible about the whole notion of

01:32:52   professional sports in the first place

01:32:54   but doping no that is too far sir right

01:32:57   that work definitely that's not allowed

01:32:58   I mean like all that crazy stuff about

01:33:01   people doing like high-altitude training

01:33:02   and like taking out their blood and then

01:33:04   like pumping their own blood back into

01:33:06   them it's like well that's not doping

01:33:07   because it's your own genetic material

01:33:08   like this stuff is crazy I'm totally

01:33:10   fine with it like you want to take some

01:33:11   steroids to be a better athlete I'm okay

01:33:14   with that I have no say yes saying let's

01:33:16   make sport like you know technological

01:33:18   arms race and just take it to its

01:33:19   conclusion

01:33:20   wherever that is that it's that already

01:33:22   like yeah yeah I got a camera where I

01:33:25   came across it I came across something

01:33:26   which was just talking about even like

01:33:29   sports records as they relate to like

01:33:31   baseball bats and tennis rackets and all

01:33:34   kinds of things where you just you don't

01:33:36   even really think about it but it's like

01:33:37   oh of course of course there's actually

01:33:39   quite a lot of technology that goes into

01:33:41   a tennis racket and how it responds yeah

01:33:44   to the tennis balls like oh yeah

01:33:46   this is all like a thing anyway that's

01:33:47   that's about progress yeah I mean your

01:33:49   people so are countries with the best

01:33:51   you know chemists will start winning all

01:33:53   the medals but as it stands now the

01:33:55   countries with the best training

01:33:57   facilities win all the medals so I

01:33:59   understand that argument I do think

01:34:01   there's like a human safety element to

01:34:04   some of the drug stuff that probably is

01:34:06   worthy of consideration don't get me

01:34:08   wrong it's worthy of consideration but I

01:34:11   think well we'll just end up happening

01:34:13   as well start genetically breeding

01:34:15   people to be more receptive to those

01:34:17   drugs to compete in our sports and we'll

01:34:20   just end up with an entire class of

01:34:21   people who are bred to be athletes I

01:34:24   think that's the natural logical

01:34:25   conclusion of this and it'll be an

01:34:28   amazing sporting future would you rather

01:34:30   watch that sporting contest between like

01:34:32   the super bred drugged up uber humans or

01:34:35   robots competing hmm or base this

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01:36:32   supporting this episode of hello

01:36:34   Internet so Brady piece of news broke

01:36:39   through my bubble net which is we're

01:36:41   going to have an election here in the UK

01:36:43   a snap election a snap election how

01:36:47   exciting the Prime Minister Theresa May

01:36:49   is just decided let's have an election I

01:36:52   thought this new law where you had an

01:36:54   election every five years which was new

01:36:56   to the UK was designed to stop this

01:36:58   being like a thing you were allowed to

01:36:59   do but obviously it's not I don't

01:37:02   actually know what that new five-year

01:37:03   law is for now if you can call snap

01:37:06   elections anyway I don't understand how

01:37:08   she's allowed to do it but it's

01:37:09   happening so yeah we're we mentioned

01:37:11   this once when the law first came out

01:37:14   and my understanding is that that law

01:37:15   was primarily to just shorten the

01:37:18   maximum length between elections in the

01:37:21   UK it was six years before wasn't it oh

01:37:24   okay okay so this new this law whatever

01:37:26   it's called about having a set election

01:37:28   every five years on a set date is just a

01:37:31   fancy way of saying the limit now is

01:37:33   five years between elections that was my

01:37:35   understanding of it and that seems to be

01:37:36   the case background for Americans right

01:37:38   there's there's this thing in the UK

01:37:39   just very briefly where you can have an

01:37:42   election at any point and then you have

01:37:44   its what six weeks is the whole whole

01:37:46   cycle before

01:37:48   the election actually takes place like

01:37:50   this is a thing that can happen in UK

01:37:51   politics and it can happen either

01:37:53   because you have a coalition government

01:37:55   that falls apart or it can happen as has

01:37:58   happened in this case where the party in

01:38:00   power thinks that they can more firmly

01:38:02   lock in their power and you can just you

01:38:05   can have an election and the thing that

01:38:07   happens now which i think is interesting

01:38:09   is that it looks like it resets the

01:38:13   clock so it's again the next election

01:38:16   can be no more than five years from this

01:38:19   election is the way it works so we don't

01:38:22   have like a fixed election cycle in the

01:38:25   UK in the same way that the United

01:38:26   States does yeah and that is what has

01:38:29   happened most recently with Theresa May

01:38:32   calling the snap election in the UK and

01:38:34   for those who don't follow British

01:38:36   politics pretty obviously what's

01:38:38   happened is the the opposition party in

01:38:41   the UK is in such dire state and it's so

01:38:45   far behind in the polls that I think the

01:38:48   Prime Minister here thought it was a

01:38:49   fait accompli that she would win an

01:38:50   election and win it handsomely and

01:38:53   probably increase her mandate and not

01:38:55   only would it reset her clock she's

01:38:57   probably arguing it'll give her a bit

01:38:59   stronger mandate for all the bricks at

01:39:01   who her and stuff that's to follow so

01:39:03   it's sort of a opportunism isn't it or

01:39:06   shrewdness or whatever you want to call

01:39:09   it I saw your tweet I saw your tweet but

01:39:13   which one tweet I don't even remember

01:39:15   what we don't have a gate wait I think

01:39:17   it was I think it was right because it

01:39:19   was one of these things where obviously

01:39:21   I don't follow the day-to-day of

01:39:22   politics I have no interest of this but

01:39:23   this did burst through my bubble from

01:39:25   bunch of people sending me stuff about

01:39:26   the election happening as soon as I saw

01:39:29   it I thought it wouldn't have occurred

01:39:32   to me but it does seem like there was a

01:39:34   very clever move on her part some of

01:39:38   those things in retrospect it seems

01:39:39   almost obvious like it's a good decision

01:39:41   for her to gain more power and to sort

01:39:45   of lock in more more victories for her

01:39:47   party I mean it may disgust for months

01:39:49   and months but she just kept promising

01:39:51   she wouldn't do it it wasn't a shock

01:39:53   because no one thought she would do it

01:39:55   like everyone thought it was a really

01:39:56   obvious move but she just promised that

01:39:58   she wouldn't do it so the reason it was

01:40:00   a shock was because it was such a

01:40:01   a brazen break of her promise I have a

01:40:04   hard time holding someone to the notion

01:40:07   of like if you've had the opinion once

01:40:08   you have to have that opinion for

01:40:10   forever yeah right yeah I wouldn't even

01:40:12   pass it off cynically as like Oh

01:40:13   politicians you can't trust them it's

01:40:14   just like no you know you don't

01:40:15   necessarily know what reasons like why

01:40:17   things change even if it was just

01:40:19   straight-up strategic to say like oh

01:40:21   we're not going to hold an election and

01:40:22   then later we're gonna do it anyway it's

01:40:23   like yeah people have their reasons some

01:40:25   I can never like fault someone for

01:40:27   changing their mind I think it's okay to

01:40:30   change your mind I don't think it's okay

01:40:31   to lie for strategic reasons when you

01:40:34   are a leader of people because then

01:40:36   people could make decisions like if

01:40:39   before an election you promised you

01:40:40   would do something mm-hmm and you knew

01:40:42   for a fact you wouldn't do it and

01:40:44   everyone voted on you on that basis and

01:40:46   then you did the other thing what hope

01:40:48   have we got for democracy if like Strich

01:40:51   eat like I'm not saying it will stop

01:40:52   happening but if it's like acceptable

01:40:55   and everyone's saying I know it's fine

01:40:56   yeah yeah it's okay to lie I think when

01:40:59   you do strategic lying that will never

01:41:01   stop but I think you need to be cold on

01:41:03   it and slept over the wrists I think if

01:41:05   we create a world where strategic lying

01:41:07   is like fine then what hope have we got

01:41:11   as like voters but what like what like

01:41:14   we dislike we're just flip flopping in

01:41:15   the wind now because they can just do

01:41:17   whatever they want there has to be some

01:41:18   penalty for your strategic yeah and too

01:41:21   much strategic lying has to result in

01:41:23   you like you know getting kicked out

01:41:25   we're a little bit of strategic lying

01:41:27   you kind of get away with it yeah it's

01:41:29   funny because it's like when I when I

01:41:31   was first saying that I was having in my

01:41:32   mind like I was going to go to some like

01:41:34   World War two analogy about what will a

01:41:36   leader say on the radio that's a dirty G

01:41:38   collided like win a victory it's like

01:41:39   yes but at the other end of that

01:41:41   spectrum is just straight-up lies that

01:41:43   we can all agree you're like terrible

01:41:45   like I'm never gonna fulfill this

01:41:46   promise at all lies so yeah obviously

01:41:48   there's got to be somewhere there's got

01:41:50   to be something that's somewhere in

01:41:51   between there yeah I'm okay with being

01:41:56   strategic about when you want to

01:41:57   announce a snap election feels like it's

01:42:00   someone who is already in office trying

01:42:04   to time a thing I feel like I'm okay

01:42:08   with that but maybe maybe much further

01:42:11   is not okay is it a little bit like that

01:42:13   because I know you're someone who is

01:42:15   really opposed to gerrymandering ie like

01:42:19   you think you think that's pretty poison

01:42:20   thing that happens in the u.s. yeah

01:42:22   right and that is a prime example of the

01:42:25   people who are in power being able to

01:42:28   manipulate the electoral system is snap

01:42:31   elections another example of that they

01:42:33   like she had the power and she's

01:42:36   manipulated the system by calling the

01:42:38   election at the moment that gives her

01:42:40   the maximum opportunity to win not like

01:42:42   an arbitrary fair time that's been

01:42:44   decided this date in the future is this

01:42:47   not like a kind of gerrymandering how is

01:42:50   it different so yeah I think you're

01:42:51   right that in a way this is a kind of

01:42:53   gerrymandering but I'm more okay with it

01:42:56   because I think this is again we have to

01:42:59   talk like in the abstract about how do

01:43:00   you have a government yeah system work

01:43:02   like we're not talking about this

01:43:02   particular election yeah I'm kind of ok

01:43:05   with it because I think this is just the

01:43:07   natural consequence of the way this

01:43:10   system is set up that you could also

01:43:12   have a moment where you have like an

01:43:15   impasse in the government and then you

01:43:17   can have an election that that occurs

01:43:19   when there is an impasse and the

01:43:21   election is like the thing that solves

01:43:23   this political impasse if a coalition

01:43:27   government isn't able to stick together

01:43:28   and I think it's very hard to imagine it

01:43:31   like a set of rules where you can have

01:43:34   the government dissolve but not have it

01:43:37   dissolved strategically this is like the

01:43:40   consequence of the way the system is set

01:43:42   up but I totally agree that there's this

01:43:45   what has occurred now is probably the

01:43:47   situation where someone is strategically

01:43:49   dissolving the government in order to

01:43:52   win by a bigger margin I mean she's

01:43:55   pretty upfront about that just to

01:43:57   quickly come back to this practical

01:43:58   example they were mainly talking in

01:44:00   abstractions I mean there was no real

01:44:02   impasse in the UK and no one has even

01:44:05   pretended there was she she basically

01:44:07   has said I want a stronger mandate you

01:44:10   know going into the next few years with

01:44:13   all the things that are ahead for the UK

01:44:14   and to be fair the opposition all the

01:44:17   other parties lay down and approved it

01:44:20   like you know it went through the

01:44:21   Parliament so it's not like they all

01:44:22   said cried foul and said stop that so

01:44:25   but I don't think it's not even like

01:44:28   they

01:44:29   she manipulated the system and created

01:44:31   some bill over which no one could agree

01:44:33   that would result in the Parliament

01:44:35   collapsing she just basically said I

01:44:37   want more votes what do you all say who

01:44:41   and you know what opposition isn't going

01:44:43   to approve an election because you look

01:44:46   cowardly if you say no

01:44:47   putting aside the particulars of the

01:44:49   policy this was just a totally brilliant

01:44:52   game theory move right because I think

01:44:56   this whole situation with brexit and

01:44:58   then the UK having another election

01:45:00   she's able to do the like do you want to

01:45:04   vote to make us stronger in a

01:45:06   negotiation or do you want to make us

01:45:08   weaker in a negotiation it is such a

01:45:10   killer electoral move and to time it at

01:45:15   a place where yet the opposition party

01:45:17   seems like they are particularly weak I

01:45:20   don't follow the details of a day to day

01:45:22   but I expect that the Conservatives are

01:45:24   going to walk away with like a huge a

01:45:26   huge victory over this one it's hard to

01:45:30   imagine how that that wouldn't happen I

01:45:34   do think that that she's right in a way

01:45:36   that the more resounding of a victory

01:45:40   she can win like the better it makes it

01:45:43   for the UK negotiating with the European

01:45:46   Union and it's like oh god like what

01:45:48   like you're trapped in this in this

01:45:49   position where is she's made it almost

01:45:52   feel like if you don't vote her way you

01:45:56   were voting against the best interests

01:45:58   of the UK that's why I did think like as

01:46:00   soon as I like I heard that the election

01:46:02   was occurring and then I saw her little

01:46:03   speech about like oh you need to you

01:46:05   need to vote with us or you're against

01:46:07   us you're against the UK thing I was

01:46:09   like man it just feels like it's a

01:46:10   really clever little game theory win on

01:46:15   the behalf of the Conservatives so I

01:46:17   just I think it's an interesting

01:46:19   situation and I'm going to be very

01:46:20   curious to see how it turns out but I'm

01:46:22   expecting that they're really gonna

01:46:23   clean house yeah they're anything I

01:46:25   disagree with him what you just said was

01:46:27   capturing it as like some brilliant move

01:46:29   like she's just solved from ours Last

01:46:30   Theorem or something I think it was like

01:46:32   just bit of an no brainer and she was

01:46:34   just a bit ruthless I don't think you

01:46:36   know she's pulled off some political act

01:46:39   of genius like it was just like everyone

01:46:41   was saying for months

01:46:43   yeah she'll probably call a snap

01:46:44   election because she'll crush him and

01:46:46   increase her majority and then sure

01:46:48   enough that's what she did it's not just

01:46:50   calling the snap election it's the it's

01:46:52   the tie in with brexit that's what makes

01:46:55   it a stronger position I'm not saying

01:46:58   that this is like ooh this is some

01:46:59   strategic 3d chess move it's an

01:47:02   interesting thing that has occurred in

01:47:05   the way this system works and I think

01:47:07   combining it with brexit it just feels

01:47:10   like a kind of trap for the voters where

01:47:14   you you have yeah very little

01:47:17   maneuverability yeah I guess I guess

01:47:19   that the the sneaky move was calling a

01:47:22   snap election after triggering yeah yeah

01:47:24   that's what it is

01:47:25   it's no longer a revote on bricks like

01:47:27   bricks that's happening you can't stop

01:47:29   it now but are you going to sabotage the

01:47:30   country or not that's probably the

01:47:32   interesting thing about the timing if

01:47:34   she'd said I'm not going to call article

01:47:36   50 until you decide on me as your new

01:47:38   prime minister then it would have become

01:47:40   referendum too right it's like oh well

01:47:42   you know I'm flying this plane we've

01:47:45   taken off we know where we're going and

01:47:47   now are you going to let me pick the

01:47:49   crew that I fly the plane with or not

01:47:51   we're all on this plane together like we

01:47:53   needed to get where it's going and we

01:47:55   can't get you out of the cockpit so it's

01:47:58   almost crazy to try to like pick people

01:48:00   who are going to work against you it's

01:48:01   just that's why I think it's just it's

01:48:02   an interesting thing it's also sort of

01:48:05   like sad to see the opposition parties

01:48:07   are trying to negotiate with each other

01:48:10   to run candidates or not run candidates

01:48:14   in various districts based on who was

01:48:15   going to win or who is like it's just

01:48:17   you can see all of the side effects of

01:48:19   the strategic voting that has to occur

01:48:21   everywhere else it's just you know again

01:48:25   that's just like a just a very

01:48:26   frustrating situation take an

01:48:29   interesting thing about politics cry

01:48:30   yeah like just to touch on you know my

01:48:34   consumption of news again I'm really

01:48:36   into my political podcast at the moment

01:48:39   there are quite a few I like listening

01:48:40   to particularly American politics you

01:48:42   know it's become so interesting now that

01:48:44   I've really increased my intake of

01:48:46   American politics stuff and there's also

01:48:48   like a few like there's a satirical

01:48:50   magazine that comes out every two weeks

01:48:52   in the UK called Private Eye which deals

01:48:55   a lot with politics and it's one of my

01:48:56   fav

01:48:56   of things to read and I've always got

01:48:59   great pleasure from these things but the

01:49:01   problem is because you know I'm a busy

01:49:02   person and there's so much of this stuff

01:49:04   you can't consume it straight away you

01:49:06   know you've got a picture times when you

01:49:08   go for a drive or you go to the gym and

01:49:09   stuff and in the last year or so

01:49:12   politics has just started changing so

01:49:16   quickly that all of these things become

01:49:20   completely pointless to listen to within

01:49:23   hours of coming out it's been a really

01:49:26   crazy thing I guess I'm helping make one

01:49:28   of your arguments here in a way but like

01:49:30   this stuff is changing so soon that if I

01:49:32   have any podcast about American politics

01:49:35   and I don't listen to it that day and

01:49:37   leave it three or four days I may as

01:49:39   well be listening to them talk about

01:49:41   Andrew Jackson or something it's so out

01:49:43   of date like stuff they're talking about

01:49:44   it's crazy I don't know why politics is

01:49:47   moving so quickly now I don't know

01:49:49   whether it's changed or I've changed or

01:49:51   something but it's just everything's

01:49:53   just happened so fast now it makes my

01:49:55   head spin has something changed that's

01:49:57   made politics go into some kind of

01:49:59   fast-forward or is it just like it's

01:50:01   just a weird little time we're living in

01:50:02   at the moment or is it just the way I'm

01:50:04   perceiving it right I know I know you

01:50:07   don't follow it but you must be aware

01:50:08   that all this stuff that's happening so

01:50:09   quickly now I feel resistant to

01:50:11   arguments about how things are happening

01:50:13   faster now than they have ever been I

01:50:15   wonder because I think that that is

01:50:18   almost certainly going to be affected by

01:50:20   how much people are discussing things

01:50:22   the amount of talking is going to make

01:50:24   stuff feel faster than otherwise like I

01:50:29   am NOT saying that things aren't faster

01:50:31   I'm just saying that like your

01:50:32   perception of how fast things are

01:50:34   essentially what I'm saying here Brady

01:50:36   is I think you might be subscribed to a

01:50:37   lot of political podcasts right which

01:50:39   are talking about a whole bunch of stuff

01:50:41   and you only have so much time to

01:50:44   actually listen to your political

01:50:45   podcasts which then makes you aware of

01:50:47   all the ones you didn't get to have

01:50:50   become totally meaningless and

01:50:52   irrelevant than the time that has passed

01:50:54   and so then it feels like wow things are

01:50:56   things are going by so quickly because I

01:50:58   didn't get a chance to listen to these

01:51:00   three other political podcasts about

01:51:02   this thing yeah I understand the point

01:51:05   you're making there perhaps I framed

01:51:06   that incorrectly and made it sound like

01:51:08   I listened to loads and loads of them

01:51:09   there

01:51:10   like two or three of them and I do

01:51:11   listen to them within a few days and

01:51:13   they just seem out of date really really

01:51:17   quickly so why do you listen to them

01:51:18   then I think a big part of it is the

01:51:20   Fiat the handful I do listen to I like

01:51:23   the people as much as anything which is

01:51:25   always an import of a podcast I'm just

01:51:27   enjoying smart hearing smart people talk

01:51:29   about interesting things in an

01:51:31   interesting way so it's not that I'm

01:51:32   like some you know total political

01:51:35   junkie I mean I think what's happening

01:51:36   in America is quite interesting at the

01:51:38   moment it's quiet it's quite a show but

01:51:40   I don't think that's the whole reason I

01:51:41   think I also just enjoy listening to

01:51:43   these people but like so many things

01:51:44   that landscapes is changing really

01:51:46   quickly it's kind of a bit dizzying

01:51:48   sometimes and the UK doesn't feel that

01:51:49   much different and this snap election

01:51:51   has certainly hasn't helped like it's

01:51:53   just just when the UK felt like okay

01:51:55   let's sped in for two years of brexit

01:51:58   slog it's like no no we're having

01:52:00   another election she called the election

01:52:02   you know a few days before the council

01:52:04   elections and so there are election

01:52:06   results coming in during the election

01:52:08   campaign and it's like wow man it's a

01:52:11   bit fatiguing to be honest it's a bit

01:52:13   fatigued maybe you should you should

01:52:15   listen to fewer blue and I need a good

01:52:17   beekeeping one do you know any however

01:52:19   find some like it I get a good

01:52:21   beekeeping recommendation start one it

01:52:23   could be called the buzz with CGP grey

01:52:25   and it's just all about that latest

01:52:27   happenings in the world of beekeeping I

01:52:29   was about to say there's no possible way

01:52:31   that there can be news in the beekeeping

01:52:33   world but if there's anything I've

01:52:34   learned from the internet right it's

01:52:36   that is that everything is a world unto

01:52:40   itself right every topic has an infinite

01:52:42   amount of depth to it so I'm absolutely

01:52:46   sure that there's like beekeeping

01:52:48   monthly and a podcast and politics

01:52:53   within the beekeeping world every topic

01:52:55   is an infinite topic of course there's

01:52:57   been another big election though this

01:52:59   has been the French election did you

01:53:01   follow this ah do you know what happened

01:53:05   no I was already there was been a French

01:53:10   presidential election I wanted to ask

01:53:12   you about their voting system but if you

01:53:13   don't even know what happened you

01:53:14   probably not going to oh I know about

01:53:16   the two-round French voting system yeah

01:53:17   okay I know that okay okay I think you

01:53:20   probably should know that there was a

01:53:21   which presidential election on the

01:53:23   weekend but I totally respect that you

01:53:24   don't win see and let's think that's

01:53:28   good because that will make your

01:53:30   discussion completely non-political

01:53:31   which is which is great how many

01:53:33   elections happened worldwide every month

01:53:36   there must be a bunch yeah but from

01:53:37   France is a pretty big important country

01:53:39   and this is like you know particularly

01:53:41   in the context of are you saying other

01:53:42   people's elections are not important

01:53:44   Brady that's what that's what I'm here

01:53:45   is particularly in the context of what's

01:53:47   happening in the EU and although we're

01:53:48   not going to go into the details the

01:53:50   nuances of this election you know

01:53:51   involving you know who was running and

01:53:54   what was going on and some of the

01:53:56   implications in a broader context this

01:53:58   was an interesting one this was why did

01:54:00   I miss something important like as

01:54:02   someone who missed the whole thing

01:54:03   what's different now than before the

01:54:05   father runt the final two-person runoff

01:54:07   was between a centrist candidate and a

01:54:09   far-right candidate who was very anti

01:54:12   Europe so it was considered bit of a a

01:54:14   referendum on that was this going to be

01:54:16   like a you know brick suit

01:54:18   rerun after recent election results

01:54:20   where more right views have prevailed a

01:54:23   lot of people were thinking is this a

01:54:24   trend that's going to continue this

01:54:26   woman who was running for French

01:54:28   president was quite extreme from quite

01:54:30   an extreme side of politics so there

01:54:32   were lots of eyeballs on it to see what

01:54:33   what would happen and in the end the

01:54:36   sort of more centrist candidate won the

01:54:38   two-person runoff

01:54:39   in bit of a landslide but the thing that

01:54:42   was interesting from purely a voting

01:54:43   perspective was the round before where

01:54:47   there was just this right-wing candidate

01:54:50   and then lots of other candidates who

01:54:51   were left and centrist in that they all

01:54:53   split the vote amongst themselves and

01:54:55   the right wing and that did really

01:54:57   really well so but then what happened

01:55:00   was when it became a two-person runoff

01:55:02   all the people then consolidated behind

01:55:04   the the centrist one so it was just

01:55:06   really interesting from a sort of an

01:55:07   electoral Theory perspective so I

01:55:10   thought maybe you'd followed it for that

01:55:11   reason

01:55:12   now that sounds like the system works

01:55:14   then that is the French system like it's

01:55:15   round one one vote per person and then

01:55:20   you pick the two most popular and they

01:55:21   face off in the final election it's a

01:55:25   better system than the

01:55:26   first-past-the-post system but that's

01:55:27   not hard to do because first bad suppose

01:55:29   is the worst ever is it a better system

01:55:31   than the transferable vote though what

01:55:33   are the advantages or disadvantages to

01:55:35   the

01:55:35   run off system versus a transferable

01:55:38   vote just having one round in the first

01:55:40   place and everyone just has their

01:55:41   priorities and knows that everything's

01:55:43   going to get shuffled around in the end

01:55:45   to where it should be if I'm going to

01:55:46   rank these two things I would say that

01:55:49   the two round system is better than

01:55:50   first-past-the-post but it's not as good

01:55:53   as a as a ranked method like single

01:55:56   transferable vote or Instant Runoff

01:55:58   around it's because you're losing you're

01:56:01   losing information about preference what

01:56:05   you're essentially doing is you're

01:56:06   having to first-past-the-post votes one

01:56:11   after the other in the two round system

01:56:13   and so it sounds like in this latest

01:56:16   French election that what can happen is

01:56:19   exactly this where you get you get a

01:56:22   candidate who has a smaller fanatical

01:56:25   base that sticks together wins they get

01:56:28   a bunch of votes and then there happens

01:56:31   to be somebody else who is also has a

01:56:33   bunch of votes who might be like a

01:56:34   centrist candidate like the round two

01:56:37   essentially is an option to undo the

01:56:41   winner of round one in a way like that's

01:56:44   what the two round system is doing

01:56:45   whereas if it was just a straight run

01:56:47   off of straight first-past-the-post vote

01:56:49   wasn't happen but the thing with like

01:56:51   with a single transferable vote system

01:56:53   or an instant runoff system is you're

01:56:55   able to say like oh I like this person

01:56:56   and that person is more information to

01:56:58   work with yeah about how much the people

01:57:01   like each of the candidates and and what

01:57:04   their ranking is better than

01:57:06   first-past-the-post not as good as some

01:57:08   other systems even with this you get

01:57:10   very quickly into this this kind of like

01:57:13   fun debatable area where with all voting

01:57:18   systems like I like them because you you

01:57:21   have to be making some kind of

01:57:23   negotiation between what the mathematics

01:57:26   tells you about how systems work and

01:57:28   then what is it that you are valuing in

01:57:30   an electoral system which the math can't

01:57:33   possibly tell you and it's why arguments

01:57:36   about this stuff will never end because

01:57:37   there's no mathematical answer to say oh

01:57:39   this system is obviously the best you

01:57:42   can only just say this system meets a

01:57:44   bunch of different criteria in better or

01:57:46   worse ways and then ultimately there has

01:57:48   to be

01:57:49   human judgment about which of the

01:57:51   criteria matter more than others there's

01:57:55   no way to just say like oh this is the

01:57:56   best or this is not the best but we can

01:57:58   all agree that first-past-the-post is

01:57:59   the worst

01:57:59   I guess the advantage of the runoff I

01:58:03   mean I think I agree with you I already

01:58:05   like the transferable vote but I guess

01:58:07   the advantage of the runoff is once you

01:58:10   know people's preferences the first time

01:58:12   around and the landscape changes you can

01:58:14   like debate again in in the new context

01:58:17   like yet you know you have the second

01:58:19   election campaign for a few weeks

01:58:20   suddenly now that the stakes are

01:58:23   different and who's against who is

01:58:24   different you might want to change your

01:58:26   vote like you might think oh like hey if

01:58:28   I knew it was good if I knew those two

01:58:29   were the two most popular I'd want to

01:58:32   hear what they thought about this and

01:58:34   that and that it might change the way I

01:58:35   vote so what I also think is really

01:58:37   valid in a voting system is this whole

01:58:39   idea of you know again in theory you

01:58:42   should be voting for the person that you

01:58:44   totally like that you agree with more

01:58:45   and that you like more but let's be

01:58:47   honest there's there's a huge amount of

01:58:48   the voting system which is well I don't

01:58:50   want that person in charge right like

01:58:52   I'll take anybody but that person and so

01:58:54   I think the two-round system it gives

01:58:56   you that moment of saying like okay well

01:58:58   I didn't like Joe Bloggs but when Joe

01:59:03   Bloggs is running against Bob logs like

01:59:05   oh he's that guy's the worst like I'll

01:59:06   take anybody over here and it allows you

01:59:08   to do that kind of switch like this

01:59:09   there's that information change that

01:59:12   happens between the rounds it's why

01:59:14   something like a ranked system just

01:59:15   happens to collect all that information

01:59:17   upfront by asking you to order the

01:59:19   candidates because that's implicitly

01:59:20   what you're doing like would you like

01:59:22   this person over this person over that

01:59:25   person and then you're able to run like

01:59:27   a bunch of theoretical elections like

01:59:30   that's again that's the main problem

01:59:31   with just a single first-past-the-post

01:59:32   election is that you can very often end

01:59:35   up with a candidate that the majority of

01:59:39   the citizens all agree they'd rather

01:59:42   have anybody else than that candidate

01:59:45   and at least the two round system

01:59:48   prevents that from happening because it

01:59:50   allows people in the second round to

01:59:52   consolidate around a candidate that

01:59:54   everybody prefers to the other person

01:59:56   it's fine but I do fine

01:59:56   it's fine but I do fine

02:00:00   mildly amusing that this massive country

02:00:03   which is the nearest country to the

02:00:04   country you live in just had this really

02:00:07   like tumultuous interesting presidential

02:00:09   election and you were just like mm-hmm

02:00:12   like hell I plodding away driving your

02:00:15   truck simulator and having the time of

02:00:16   your life and then I would no idea was

02:00:18   happening