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H.I. #83: The Best Kind of Prison


00:00:00   welcome to the buzz with CGP grey so I

00:00:03   just want to talk about something that's

00:00:05   been happening in my hive you did ask me

00:00:09   what I would like to do hmm when I'm an

00:00:11   old man and I did say peak bagging sort

00:00:14   of on the spur of the moment mm-hmm

00:00:15   there are some other things that spring

00:00:17   to mind that I kind of didn't think of

00:00:19   at the time oh yeah the problem is with

00:00:21   most of mine I've kind of like already

00:00:23   done them but what I would do is I would

00:00:26   do them better as an old man okay I feel

00:00:28   like you're almost venturing into

00:00:30   humblebrag territory here with it's like

00:00:32   oh I'd love to do more things but I've

00:00:34   already accomplished so much in my life

00:00:36   I don't mean it like that

00:00:38   okay like for example I really like like

00:00:41   slot cars like sort of scale at Rick's

00:00:43   tracks

00:00:44   I would love to create a massive one of

00:00:47   those like the size of like three or

00:00:49   four rooms

00:00:50   mm-hmm and like have a really really

00:00:52   slick one but I did go through a phase

00:00:53   like in my early adulthood where I got

00:00:56   into that and had a really cool one in

00:00:58   my room stuff like that I would like to

00:01:01   get into train sets ah

00:01:02   I've never done a good train set I'd

00:01:05   love to have like a big huge train set

00:01:07   in the basement that has all the good

00:01:08   models and stuff like that but the thing

00:01:10   that's closest to beekeeping that I

00:01:12   could have Benjen getting into would be

00:01:15   an aquarium a really good aquarium but I

00:01:18   have done lots of aquariums over the

00:01:20   years at various times I reckon I'd love

00:01:22   to get really back into keeping

00:01:23   aquariums it saltwater aquarium or a

00:01:25   freshwater aquarium Brede

00:01:26   well I mean I've done both oh wow okay

00:01:29   yeah saltwater I mean that's pro level

00:01:31   aquarium there I actually found it

00:01:33   surprisingly easy I didn't have a big

00:01:36   one mm-hmm

00:01:36   did I have at a bet what happened when I

00:01:38   finally got rid of my saltwater aquarium

00:01:40   I didn't know you had a saltwater

00:01:41   aquarium so no I don't know what

00:01:43   happened when you got rid of it I did

00:01:44   have one I was moving house when I left

00:01:46   Nottingham so I decided to not move with

00:01:49   the aquarium I decided to get rid of it

00:01:50   but I had this clownfish mm-hmm so I

00:01:53   ended up donating it to my local fish

00:01:55   and chip shop my local fish and chip

00:01:57   shop had this amazing saltwater aquarium

00:01:59   so I said to them one day while I was

00:02:01   buying fish and chips I said I'm getting

00:02:02   rid of my aquarium at home do you want

00:02:05   my fish and they were like yeah yeah

00:02:07   we'll take it off your hands they

00:02:08   already had a clownfish in there and

00:02:10   they're quite territorial clownfish

00:02:12   are they yeah so I took it in like a few

00:02:14   hours later in a bag and gave it to them

00:02:16   and they like released it into the

00:02:19   aquarium and at first their clownfish

00:02:21   was much bigger than mine and it was

00:02:23   clearly being bit of a bully and I felt

00:02:25   really sad and I thought I know I've put

00:02:26   it into this huge new aquarium with all

00:02:28   these other fish that don't like it and

00:02:29   I felt really sad and thought maybe

00:02:31   things weren't going to end well but

00:02:33   like I went back the next day to check

00:02:35   how it was going and it had become like

00:02:37   best buddies with the other clownfish

00:02:38   and they were like best mates and like

00:02:41   six months later I went back after I'd

00:02:42   moved I was back in Nottingham and I

00:02:44   went back to the fish and chip shop to

00:02:45   check and sure enough there he was or

00:02:48   there she was

00:02:48   whichever gender it had taken on best

00:02:51   mates with the other one so it ended

00:02:53   really well but I'd love to one day have

00:02:54   like a super massive aquarium like you

00:02:57   know six feet across a huge one I could

00:03:01   do that my old age and tend to my

00:03:02   Quarian so clearly your interest in

00:03:04   beekeeping generated a lot of interest

00:03:06   among listeners to the show as much

00:03:08   arisen from that what's come about since

00:03:10   in your world well you know Brady like I

00:03:12   couldn't help myself I mentioned in the

00:03:14   last show that sometimes I get caught in

00:03:15   a little bee vortex of reading about how

00:03:19   to keep bees how to manage your hives

00:03:21   how to do all these things and of course

00:03:23   after the show went live I was inundated

00:03:25   with links I spent a very pleasant

00:03:27   morning reading about a hobby that I

00:03:29   don't have any real intention of

00:03:30   pursuing until a couple decades from now

00:03:33   if ever I couldn't help myself I was

00:03:36   reading about urban hives and I was

00:03:38   looking into local beekeeping

00:03:40   associations and all these various

00:03:41   things I just I couldn't stop myself but

00:03:44   I do want to recommend to the listeners

00:03:45   something that was passed on to me which

00:03:47   is a youtuber called Cody's lab and it

00:03:51   looks like he's a guy who normally does

00:03:53   a whole bunch of science experiments and

00:03:55   stuff but people passed on to me that in

00:03:58   his spare time he does beekeeping and

00:04:01   there's a playlist of like a hundred

00:04:03   videos of him just tending to his bees I

00:04:06   was watching that I was really enjoying

00:04:08   that couldn't help myself

00:04:10   I was absolutely transfixed and for the

00:04:13   buzz for the actual beekeeping news the

00:04:16   very day that we published that episode

00:04:18   there was a huge swarm of bees in London

00:04:21   in Greenwich that actually caused one of

00:04:24   the streets to be shut

00:04:26   for a couple of hours and they had to

00:04:27   bring in a local beekeeper a total hero

00:04:30   to try to coerce a bunch of the bees

00:04:33   into some hives and get them to D swarm

00:04:36   from the street so I think our podcast

00:04:39   once again causes news to happen this

00:04:42   time in the realm of beads they were let

00:04:44   Tim bees and when they'd heard about

00:04:46   your interest they all flock to London

00:04:47   to try and see you and I think that that

00:04:49   is the only logical assumption we can

00:04:51   make I mean you talk about a hero you

00:04:54   now remind me I did mention last time

00:04:56   that my stepfather is a beekeeper mm-hmm

00:04:59   and his phone number did make it onto

00:05:02   like some list that the local council

00:05:04   kept of people who knew how to handle

00:05:06   bees and maybe once a month or so we'd

00:05:10   get a phone call from some local person

00:05:13   who was having a problem with a swarm of

00:05:14   bees like suddenly the bees had taken

00:05:16   over their backyard or front porch and

00:05:18   they were scared and didn't know how to

00:05:19   get rid of the bees and the council

00:05:21   would just say all right we know a guy

00:05:23   sure enough they'd call him and he'd go

00:05:25   around take the swarm away and often

00:05:28   he'd then take it and go and put it in

00:05:29   one of his boxes and he'd keep them hid

00:05:32   adopt them take them away that they've

00:05:35   happily Everafter literally on a farm

00:05:38   this time it's real bees really do go to

00:05:41   farms where are you taking those bees

00:05:43   I'm taking them to a farm no really

00:05:45   where are you taking up and I am I've

00:05:46   got a farm with like you know 50

00:05:48   beehives on it yeah but it seems like

00:05:49   this is a regular thing that you know

00:05:50   bees they swarm they'll get sort of

00:05:53   stuck in some area and then you call out

00:05:55   the local beekeeper to get them to go

00:05:57   into a hive and then take them off to a

00:06:00   farm such as the cycle with bees right

00:06:02   okay anyway that's this week in bee news

00:06:05   this waked the buzz next week probably

00:06:08   nothing who knows I've certainly learned

00:06:12   more about wisdom teeth than I ever

00:06:13   cared to know over the last month or so

00:06:15   hey whatever happened to the teeth did

00:06:17   you send them off to whoever it was who

00:06:19   wanted them thank you for reminding me

00:06:20   you can save me having to send an email

00:06:22   now because the woman who I said I would

00:06:25   send them to in Australia did email me

00:06:27   and I forgot to reply she said that's

00:06:29   great and I think she even sent me her

00:06:30   address but I've realized two things

00:06:33   well three things have come about

00:06:35   actually now

00:06:36   about it one is I didn't actually speak

00:06:39   to my wife about it so I don't know if

00:06:41   she'll be willing for me to send the

00:06:42   teeth away aha

00:06:44   she probably will but anyway I think you

00:06:46   care I'm just trying to mentally think

00:06:48   of a scenario under which your wife

00:06:50   might say oh no we really need to keep

00:06:51   those dog wisdom teeth the most

00:06:53   important thing though that someone else

00:06:55   pointed out to me was Australia is

00:06:58   notorious for its quarantine rules

00:07:00   particularly anything to do with fauna

00:07:03   or flora and you can almost guarantee

00:07:05   that sending teeth through the post to

00:07:08   Australia is not gonna happen and also

00:07:12   could result on you know people being

00:07:13   put on watch lists and things like that

00:07:15   so I'm not going to do it for that

00:07:16   reason and there is a third reason that

00:07:19   is top top top secret but I may have

00:07:23   found another amazing use for those

00:07:25   teeth and I haven't even told you about

00:07:29   it I thought it could possibly be that

00:07:32   you're gonna do with some doggy teeth

00:07:33   there baby

00:07:34   I'm making a necklace for you for

00:07:36   Christmas you better not be who would

00:07:39   throw away an Audrey teeth necklace you

00:07:42   monster only a monster would throw it

00:07:44   away that's true I would thank you and I

00:07:47   would hand it right back to you saying

00:07:49   that the gift was simply too great and I

00:07:52   could not accept it that's the way I

00:07:54   would try to handle that situation

00:07:55   speaking of gifts can I continue my

00:07:59   ongoing obsession with holidays and

00:08:03   things that we celebrate after April

00:08:05   Fool's Day and Star Wars day haha we

00:08:09   have now passed at the time of recording

00:08:11   just recently in some countries Mother's

00:08:15   Day what do you do about Mother's days

00:08:17   is celebrated in the gray family do you

00:08:21   contact your mother back in the states

00:08:23   and send her flowers or phone or up or

00:08:25   yeah of course you got to call your mom

00:08:27   on Mother's Day everybody does that

00:08:29   right baby

00:08:30   I'll come to that I just want to know

00:08:32   what you do you send presents I've just

00:08:34   sent flowers and you call you call your

00:08:36   mom on Mother's Day that's what I think

00:08:38   you do and you do flowers and I do

00:08:39   flowers my mom always says don't send

00:08:41   flowers but she's always very happy to

00:08:44   get them so it's a bit of a mixed

00:08:45   message there but I sent flowers anyway

00:08:46   I can easily have seen you as being

00:08:48   someone who wouldn't have

00:08:49   bought into that who would have said oh

00:08:50   this is just you know greeting card

00:08:52   industry florist industry I'm not

00:08:55   getting suckered into that I mean with

00:08:58   all these things it is right but it's

00:09:01   also what the day is to the person the

00:09:04   greeting card thing it's not necessarily

00:09:06   a valid complaint because people will

00:09:09   have expectations right on those days I

00:09:11   learned that when as a much younger fool

00:09:13   someone once told me that Valentine's

00:09:16   Day was not an important day and we

00:09:18   could treat it just like any other day

00:09:19   and I believed her and boy did I learn

00:09:22   it is not another day it's not another

00:09:26   day to the other person it's not another

00:09:28   day to the people who know that person

00:09:30   even if it is just concocted for

00:09:33   greeting cards

00:09:33   it still has real social ramifications

00:09:36   so the holidays are real even if they

00:09:40   are also serving other economic purposes

00:09:43   are there any days that are widely

00:09:45   recognized that you won't recognize are

00:09:49   you trying to find like a holiday

00:09:50   boycott yeah I'm trying to find the

00:09:52   holiday that you just besides April

00:09:54   Fool's Day that doesn't count this it's

00:09:55   not that April Fool's cards or anything

00:09:57   this is it do you G Father's Day like we

00:10:00   found your dad on Father's Day

00:10:01   yeah Father's Day is is coming up in

00:10:03   like a month I think here's the problem

00:10:05   right is there's actually an infinite

00:10:07   list of dumb holidays that you don't

00:10:10   know of right so it's the question of

00:10:11   like where the big ones that we can

00:10:13   actually agree on and I can't think of

00:10:15   any real major holidays that I would

00:10:17   fold my arms and go no that's ridiculous

00:10:19   like I know people who are really anti

00:10:21   Thanksgiving and I think that's dumb

00:10:23   it's a day to give thanks right guys

00:10:25   like we don't have to get all upset

00:10:26   about a whole bunch of other stuff so

00:10:28   the must find home days for you mother's

00:10:31   and Father's Day presumably both your

00:10:33   parents birthdays and Christmas Day and

00:10:36   Thanksgiving yeah I would say that those

00:10:38   are the must phone home holidays do you

00:10:40   phone your parents on their wedding

00:10:42   anniversary all right so I wasn't gonna

00:10:44   bring it up but this one is actually

00:10:45   sorry parents this one I feel like it's

00:10:47   slightly controversial because my

00:10:50   parents definitely think that I should

00:10:53   phone home on their anniversary right

00:10:56   and for a long time I definitely did not

00:11:00   think this was required

00:11:03   phone day rap because I thought like

00:11:05   this is a holiday for the two of you

00:11:08   yeah this doesn't really have anything

00:11:10   to do with me yeah but I eventually as I

00:11:13   got older did finally give in to this

00:11:16   and I do now call my parents on their

00:11:19   anniversary it's not like it's a burden

00:11:21   or anything it's just like a funny thing

00:11:23   like it doesn't feel to me like that

00:11:24   should be a required like along with a

00:11:27   Mother's Day right it doesn't feel like

00:11:28   it should be a children should be

00:11:31   required to call their parents on their

00:11:33   parents anniversary days but what do you

00:11:36   think about that I don't think you

00:11:37   should mmm I think it's like their day

00:11:40   it's also a bit weird like it's a

00:11:42   romance day for them like you know maybe

00:11:44   your parents are having a little kiss

00:11:45   and a cuddle on that day and you don't

00:11:47   want to think about your parents doing

00:11:48   that that is also the other part of it

00:11:50   is is it does feel very particularly

00:11:53   like the parents day kids don't need to

00:11:56   be involved in an anniversary day yeah

00:11:58   my family's pretty casual about that

00:12:00   sort of stuff anyway we do phonon

00:12:02   birthdays if we remember nice but it's

00:12:05   not a guarantee and there are no like

00:12:06   presents or cards or flowers and things

00:12:08   like that mmm we're just pretty

00:12:10   laid-back about that sort of stuff I do

00:12:12   have my parents birthdays in my

00:12:15   recurring diary now but for many many

00:12:17   years I didn't so there's a great

00:12:19   tradition on my parents birthdays for my

00:12:23   sister to send me a text telling me it's

00:12:25   the parents birthday so that I don't

00:12:26   forget to close even though I do

00:12:28   remember now I always get a text from my

00:12:30   sister on my parents birthdays yeah I

00:12:32   did the same thing with my parents

00:12:33   anniversaries because particularly in

00:12:35   college I think I missed many a parents

00:12:37   anniversary too much displeasure from my

00:12:40   parents and eventually like back in the

00:12:42   day like my super cool Palm Pilot I

00:12:44   finally decided to put it in the

00:12:46   calendar so I would actually have a

00:12:48   reminder of when my parents anniversary

00:12:49   is well I'm just going to put it out

00:12:51   there and you know that I think your

00:12:53   mum's great but I think mrs. gray you

00:12:54   need to give gray a leave pass on the

00:12:56   anniversaries but I know she won't not

00:13:00   because she thinks anniversary is

00:13:01   important I have no idea what she thinks

00:13:02   of anniversaries but I know how much she

00:13:04   loves you and she's not going to have

00:13:05   one less opportunity for you to come

00:13:07   home she's not going to relinquish it

00:13:09   based on that alone no that isn't

00:13:11   not going to happen I will be genuinely

00:13:12   curious in the reddit to see like what

00:13:14   the breakdown is of in families whether

00:13:17   or not calling on the parents

00:13:19   anniversaries is like the required day

00:13:20   or that not required day because I feel

00:13:22   like this one is the controversial day

00:13:23   and the responses are going to span from

00:13:25   I don't even know my parents anniversary

00:13:27   are through to we all get together and

00:13:30   have a massive dinner mm-hmm I mean I

00:13:32   have mentioned the fact I have a step

00:13:33   further which is implicit in that that

00:13:35   my parents are divorced actually

00:13:36   mmm-hmm so I don't call them on their

00:13:39   anniversary when Lina look they do get

00:13:41   along but it would be read if I called

00:13:43   them both separately on their wedding

00:13:44   anniversary say the problem with

00:13:46   Mother's Day of course though is the

00:13:50   total panic that happens every year if

00:13:53   you live in the UK but your mother is in

00:13:56   America this is actually the whole

00:13:57   reason I brought this up I've had

00:13:59   forgotten because we went down the

00:14:00   rabbit hole of anniversaries but the

00:14:02   whole reason I brought up Mother's Day

00:14:03   is that it's celebrated on different

00:14:05   days all over the world and the UK is

00:14:08   very unusual in when it celebrates

00:14:11   Mother's Day compared to everyone else

00:14:13   the USA and Australia celebrated on the

00:14:15   same day oh I didn't realize Australia

00:14:16   in the u.s. do on the same day okay they

00:14:18   do so probably the most common day to do

00:14:20   it and as the Australia in the u.s. do

00:14:22   this is the second Sunday in May mm-hmm

00:14:24   but in the UK is of course held on the

00:14:28   fourth Sunday of Lent as parently

00:14:30   looking at the Wikipedia apparently it's

00:14:32   because of some old-fashioned day when

00:14:35   in the 16th century Christians would go

00:14:39   back to their mother church on that day

00:14:41   mm-hmm and that would also obviously be

00:14:43   a time you were more likely to go and

00:14:45   see your parents and lovers would be

00:14:46   reunited with their children so it

00:14:48   somehow relates to all that which I kind

00:14:49   of like in some ways because at least

00:14:51   there's some like traditional reason for

00:14:53   the day right at least there's some

00:14:54   reason in Russia they sort of celebrate

00:14:57   Mother's on International Women's Day

00:14:58   and that's a really big day there and

00:15:00   that's another day again

00:15:02   so I happen to be in Russia just before

00:15:05   the last Mother's Day there so I was

00:15:08   quite aware of it now again I was like I

00:15:09   know is that Mother's Day no no no it's

00:15:12   Russia the Mother's Day and then I got

00:15:13   back in like in the UK everyone's

00:15:15   celebrating oh no is it Mother's Day

00:15:16   basically what I usually do on Mother's

00:15:18   Day is I text my mum and I just say

00:15:21   happy Australian Mother's Day

00:15:24   actually become brilliant for me because

00:15:25   if I ever forget I can use this as the

00:15:28   ultimate excuse now like if I forget

00:15:29   Australian Mother's Day I can say oh

00:15:31   sorry it's not Mother's Day where I am

00:15:33   and vice versa so which day I mean I

00:15:37   presume the answer you're going to say

00:15:38   is it should be celebrated on the day of

00:15:41   the country that your mother is in yeah

00:15:44   I think you need to celebrate it where

00:15:46   the mother is yeah particularly like

00:15:49   having the UK ahead of time I don't

00:15:52   think that works very well because if

00:15:53   you call your mother a month before in

00:15:57   her mind it's Mother's Day I think

00:16:00   there's no amount of talking you can do

00:16:01   which will convince the mother oh this

00:16:03   is a Mother's Day call like nope you're

00:16:05   just making a Sunday call and it happens

00:16:07   to be Mother's Day where you the child

00:16:09   are but not where the mother is right I

00:16:12   think then you fast forward a month

00:16:14   later and it's actually Mother's Day

00:16:15   wherever the mother is you're gonna have

00:16:17   a sad mother who feels like her child

00:16:19   has not called her on a Mother's Day I

00:16:20   don't think this is an obligation that

00:16:22   you can get out of the way cuz oh say

00:16:24   it's about showing off to the other

00:16:26   mothers isn't it well this is exactly it

00:16:28   right it's entirely about oh did your

00:16:31   child call you today right and then they

00:16:33   want to be able to say yes all right and

00:16:35   saying oh my my child called me a month

00:16:37   ago I don't think that really counts it

00:16:39   in mother competition like I don't think

00:16:41   that helps at all so no this is not what

00:16:43   this is I would love to sit in the room

00:16:45   with your mum and like her friends when

00:16:49   her friends say to her Oh

00:16:51   what's your son doing these days I would

00:16:54   love to hear how she answers that like

00:16:56   oh yeah he lives in England and he like

00:16:58   makes videos on YouTube but once every

00:17:01   few months and plays video games and

00:17:04   stuff is that how you think my mom would

00:17:07   answer that Brady well if she's being

00:17:09   honest yes is that what you think the

00:17:11   answer is no I'm sure you're like some

00:17:14   successful film maker in London he's a

00:17:17   London filmmaker don't you know and

00:17:19   they're like don't lie to us mrs. grey

00:17:20   we've seen him streaming Truck Simulator

00:17:24   okay Brady do you remember a long time

00:17:28   ago we talked about what happens when

00:17:31   people ask me what I do do you remember

00:17:33   this conversation will you be upset if I

00:17:35   say I don't nope not at all I don't

00:17:36   remember

00:17:37   so long in the annals of hello Internet

00:17:40   probably one of the very very first

00:17:42   shows we did I mentioned how I really

00:17:45   don't like to talk about my work with

00:17:48   other people hmm

00:17:49   would you found very surprising but it's

00:17:51   like I am constantly and even still to

00:17:53   this day I have not found a good answer

00:17:55   I am always trying to find the most

00:17:59   boring but still truthful way I can

00:18:03   possibly describe my job to another

00:18:05   person I appreciate that more now than I

00:18:07   used to I'm like that too now oh really

00:18:09   to the point where it irritates my wife

00:18:11   a bit like we'll be like at some fancy

00:18:13   dinner with like high-flying people and

00:18:15   they'll ask what I'll do and I'll just

00:18:17   really downplay it and make it sound as

00:18:20   and interesting as possible and then

00:18:22   shit later on she'll be like oh why do

00:18:23   you do that I'm really proud of what you

00:18:24   do why don't you and I'm like can I ask

00:18:27   what happened there were like what

00:18:28   changed with that I don't know I think

00:18:30   maybe I got a bit sick of talking about

00:18:33   it I don't know if I can do a diversion

00:18:35   to our diversion these do please do I

00:18:37   had a very funny thing happened the

00:18:38   other day actually I was at like an

00:18:40   event where there was a comedian hmm and

00:18:44   he was like you know picking on people

00:18:46   in the audience and stuff like that and

00:18:48   this opportunity came about for me to

00:18:51   call out and like sort of respond to

00:18:53   something he said and like look I'm

00:18:56   gonna brag I like owned him like I saw

00:18:59   an opportunity and I took it and like I

00:19:01   got a big ovation for how good it was

00:19:04   and that even the comedian said you're

00:19:05   my kind of heckler it was like this

00:19:07   amazing moment that just presented

00:19:09   itself and I took it like you know those

00:19:10   those moments in life where you think oh

00:19:12   I wish I'd thought to say that and do

00:19:14   that like you know a week later this was

00:19:16   one of the few moments where it just

00:19:17   came to my head at the moment and like I

00:19:19   did it and it was brilliant I want to

00:19:21   get on record here as well I can totally

00:19:22   believe that this happened like that

00:19:24   you're not spinning a tale about how I

00:19:26   was like I can believe that in a comedy

00:19:28   club you saw an opening that got you

00:19:30   with standing ovations because I have

00:19:33   told you many times and I think you

00:19:34   always deflect this compliment like I am

00:19:36   always so impressed by your quick wit

00:19:39   like that is by far and away one of the

00:19:41   things I am like the most envious of

00:19:43   with you is like you just have some of

00:19:45   the quickest wit of anybody I know

00:19:46   sometimes so I can believe that you

00:19:49   owned a situation in a comic

00:19:51   club and got an ovation from the crowd

00:19:52   thank you very much I didn't get a

00:19:54   standing ovation but it was a standing

00:19:56   ovation that's the way it happens okay

00:19:58   so I had my moment and then the comedian

00:20:01   says like he's obviously gonna start up

00:20:03   on me

00:20:03   and it did center around the fact I was

00:20:05   Australian so then he then said so do

00:20:09   you have a job and I kind of would yes

00:20:12   like you know in a funny way as if

00:20:14   everyone knew I was about to get picked

00:20:15   on and here this is a committee who

00:20:17   obviously has like a response for any

00:20:19   job I'm gonna say exactly so then he

00:20:21   says to me what's your job

00:20:22   and I said I met YouTube videos mm-hmm

00:20:26   and he had absolutely nothing to say

00:20:28   mm-hmm except he said oh I wouldn't mind

00:20:31   talking to you later and then he just

00:20:33   got on with his gig there's nowhere to

00:20:34   go with it it's such a bizarre thing and

00:20:37   I think maybe that goes back to the

00:20:40   question we were talking about why don't

00:20:41   I talk about it it's because I opened

00:20:43   such a weird can of worms and it could

00:20:46   go down so many paths that I don't know

00:20:48   where it will go that you know sometimes

00:20:50   I'm in the mood for it and I want to

00:20:51   talk about my work and I'll get really

00:20:53   into it I'm not like you know a recluse

00:20:55   but most of the time I just think it's

00:20:58   just not worth it they're going to ask

00:20:59   me lots of questions then they're going

00:21:01   to ask me more questions and that's

00:21:02   going to be the next 10 minutes and the

00:21:04   answers I give them are going to force

00:21:06   them to ask more questions even they

00:21:08   don't want to ask oh really what do you

00:21:10   make youtube videos about oh like

00:21:12   Science and Mathematics and stuff mm-hmm

00:21:14   and straightaway where like I've pulled

00:21:16   someone into a conversation about like

00:21:18   science and math mm-hmm I don't always

00:21:21   shut it down but I shut it down more

00:21:23   than I used to and I can see why you

00:21:24   would too you know especially you

00:21:26   because you've got the same problem as

00:21:28   me and you're less comfortable with

00:21:31   awkward conversations yeah and I just

00:21:33   don't like talking about it and it is

00:21:34   always just a weird situation I still

00:21:38   have not come up with an answer that I

00:21:40   feel is comfortably truthful yet

00:21:44   adequately boring like I am constantly

00:21:46   searching for the perfect way to

00:21:48   describe it so every time somebody asked

00:21:50   me what I do I end up just sounding like

00:21:53   an idiot's doesn't even know what he

00:21:55   does for a living and I just kind of

00:21:57   stumble through it and that does work

00:22:00   because I don't get any follow-up

00:22:01   questions but I feel like it leaves a

00:22:03   really bad impression but I never want

00:22:04   to

00:22:05   I and just say something like oh I'm a

00:22:07   data analyst for a boring company you

00:22:11   can't lie I have found it works quite

00:22:13   well to say I make youtube videos and if

00:22:16   they want to know more I really like

00:22:17   what do you do I say are they kind of

00:22:19   unlike nerdy stuff like mathematics and

00:22:21   science and they're surprisingly popular

00:22:22   lots of people watch them so I'm able to

00:22:24   do it as my job yeah I mean maybe I'll

00:22:26   December I'm a professional livestreamer

00:22:28   yeah so anyway how does your mum answer

00:22:31   that question my mom a long time ago

00:22:35   when my career was just getting started

00:22:38   was very proud to tell people like what

00:22:41   I was doing you know so she would say

00:22:42   like oh he makes these videos on the

00:22:43   Internet

00:22:44   but as time has gone on I think she has

00:22:47   run into the same thing that you do of

00:22:49   just like I don't want to get into this

00:22:51   conversation

00:22:51   it gets a hold real fast and so what I

00:22:53   love is my mother's answer now which I

00:22:55   do think is like true enough for the

00:22:59   crowd of people that she's talking to is

00:23:01   my mom says oh he works for Google right

00:23:04   and that's like random conversation

00:23:07   apparently in my mother circles that is

00:23:10   like adequately prestigious but also has

00:23:13   zero follow-up questions that come

00:23:16   afterward right cuz like nobody wants to

00:23:18   know what he does working for Google and

00:23:21   I feel like well I do get like paychecks

00:23:24   from Google from Google Adsense so it's

00:23:26   not an unreasonable answer that's my

00:23:28   mom's answer she doesn't actually talk

00:23:30   about what I do she just says I work for

00:23:32   Google I do get a bit frustrated in some

00:23:34   ways though by a similar problem and

00:23:36   that is when I left the BBC my main

00:23:39   channels I were doing were periodic

00:23:41   videos and sixty symbols

00:23:43   little I still do them but other things

00:23:45   have you know come along since yeah but

00:23:47   I said those are still your two biggest

00:23:49   right now or no numberphile oh sorry

00:23:51   yeah of course of course but yeah

00:23:52   they're like big channels yeah epic

00:23:54   channels and they are obviously

00:23:55   collaborations with the University of

00:23:57   Nottingham they're like my thing like

00:23:59   you know I'm completely independent and

00:24:00   I own them into collaboration with those

00:24:02   scientists but you know I've filmed them

00:24:05   a lot at the Uni with those people and

00:24:06   everyone I worked with at the BBC when I

00:24:10   left the BBC to become like full-time

00:24:12   YouTube just assumed I'd gone to work

00:24:14   for the University like you know as

00:24:17   they're like

00:24:18   the filmmaker or something and that the

00:24:20   university has a whole PR department and

00:24:22   it drives me crazy because still every

00:24:24   time I go back to the BBC like they'll

00:24:26   all say oh how you doing it's good to

00:24:28   see you again Braley are you still

00:24:29   working for the University of Nottingham

00:24:30   like now I never bloody worked for the

00:24:33   University of Nottingham so that does

00:24:36   drive me a bit crazy because like I

00:24:38   quite value my independence

00:24:39   so the thought that I'm like working in

00:24:42   like the PR team a big institution like

00:24:45   that would be a job that I would not

00:24:46   like to do so to think that like loads

00:24:49   of my former colleagues think that is

00:24:50   the job that I do do is like a little

00:24:52   bit frustrating but you know what I

00:24:54   usually will just say yes so that's how

00:24:57   much I don't want to bother explaining

00:24:58   the situation okay yeah yeah I'm still

00:25:01   there

00:25:02   I'll sometimes say I don't technically

00:25:03   work for them actually but I still do

00:25:05   lots of stuff with them and they're

00:25:06   great and I love the University right

00:25:08   right there you go no follow-up

00:25:09   questions I mean this whole thing is

00:25:11   tied up to this weird idea of like how

00:25:15   we are so identified with our jobs in

00:25:17   the modern world like I think that's

00:25:18   part of why it's like so is this weird

00:25:20   uncomfortable area sometimes when I'm

00:25:23   meeting new people I do like to try to

00:25:25   play a little game to keep evenings more

00:25:27   interesting at least in my head which is

00:25:29   the don't ask the other person what they

00:25:31   do game I can see how long you can go in

00:25:34   a conversation before you ask the other

00:25:36   person what it is that they do right and

00:25:38   it can sometimes be surprisingly hard

00:25:41   and it's just interesting because every

00:25:43   once in a while I will also run into

00:25:45   someone else who it's like I think

00:25:46   you're running the same game like I

00:25:48   think you're running that don't ask me

00:25:50   what I do game either it's just a little

00:25:52   bit interesting and it's a thing that I

00:25:54   sometimes like to try to do in a social

00:25:57   situation is not ask the obvious

00:26:00   question straightaway I wonder if any of

00:26:04   your mum's friends or like all of her

00:26:06   friends like know what you do like you

00:26:08   know you're a youtuber or like you know

00:26:10   they listen to hello Internet and they

00:26:11   either think that your mum's like a

00:26:13   pathological liar or like a fantasies or

00:26:17   they think that you're lying to her and

00:26:18   like she doesn't know and like they're

00:26:20   all huge hello internet fans and when

00:26:22   your mum leaves they go oh poor thing

00:26:24   she doesn't even know about the podcast

00:26:27   why is great lying to her it's very

00:26:31   possible it's very possible this episode

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00:28:32   was such a huge relief for a thing that

00:28:35   would have been a huge disaster

00:28:37   otherwise I'm using the hard drive right

00:28:39   now actually it's connected to

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00:29:22   Internet so gray I haven't done

00:29:26   Brady's papercuts rower hmm and I know

00:29:29   people enjoy them and it does occur to

00:29:32   me that like I don't mind bit of a

00:29:34   whinge right and you basically accused

00:29:38   me being a grump last episode did I I

00:29:40   don't think I did

00:29:41   well you can't it did no surely not so

00:29:44   instead of a paper cut I'm gonna do

00:29:46   Brady's paper love this week and talk

00:29:49   about something that always makes me

00:29:51   feel happy and warms my heart just a

00:29:54   little little thing in life like a paper

00:29:56   cut just one of the little things in

00:29:57   life except this has the exact opposite

00:30:00   effect on it and it always makes me

00:30:02   proud to be a human paper love that's

00:30:04   what you're going with

00:30:05   it's a Brady's paper love I can't think

00:30:07   of like the opposite of a paper cut we

00:30:09   you know where I'm coming from I know

00:30:10   where you're coming from

00:30:11   alright okay and this is and it happened

00:30:15   to me the other day you're driving along

00:30:17   I was driving along the back roads and

00:30:19   lanes and you know amongst all the

00:30:20   traffic of the UK and then like you hear

00:30:24   an ambulance and an ambulance is like

00:30:25   coming up behind you in the distance

00:30:27   mm-hmm and all of a sudden all the

00:30:29   drivers like unite in this mad scramble

00:30:32   to drive up onto the sidewalks and pull

00:30:35   inside lanes and pull over and do

00:30:37   everything they can to get out the way

00:30:39   of the ambulance and suddenly like all

00:30:41   bets are off all the rules of the road

00:30:43   are off and no one cares about who's in

00:30:45   front of anyone else anymore or what

00:30:46   we're doing all we have to do is help

00:30:48   this ambulance get through and save a

00:30:50   life and we all pull over and like go

00:30:52   into weird angles and they

00:30:54   ambulance goes blazing past and then we

00:30:55   all regroup and try and get back onto

00:30:57   the road and continue driving and for

00:30:59   those like few seconds we were all

00:31:02   heroes helping save a life and we were

00:31:04   all united and for a few seconds

00:31:06   we were unselfish and didn't just care

00:31:09   about what we were doing and where we

00:31:10   were going

00:31:11   we all cared about something else and it

00:31:13   always makes me feel warm you feel like

00:31:15   your hero when you pull out of the way

00:31:17   of the ambulance Brady yeah I do and I

00:31:19   also you feel a bit like edgy because

00:31:21   you're like driving in a way you're not

00:31:22   supposed to and people would driving on

00:31:24   the wrong side of the road and also you

00:31:25   know you could do anything you want as

00:31:27   long as you save their life I love it I

00:31:30   love it I think it is the law that an

00:31:32   ambulance radiates a traffic violation

00:31:35   free zone of 200 meters around it in

00:31:39   every direction as its barreling along I

00:31:40   think that's the way that works right

00:31:41   like no-one's going to give you a ticket

00:31:43   for that kind of stuff how would they

00:31:45   know though if you'd like ran a red

00:31:47   light you like you had to brake a red

00:31:48   light to get out the way or something to

00:31:50   let an ambulance through is there some

00:31:52   automated way for them to know that that

00:31:54   was okay the brick the running of that

00:31:55   red light like yeah that's an

00:31:57   interesting question with like the

00:31:58   automated intersections yeah don't know

00:32:00   sure people or no but someone has to

00:32:03   have been in that situation of getting a

00:32:04   ticket for crossing a red light to get

00:32:07   out of the way of an ambulance right

00:32:09   this has to have happened somewhere in

00:32:10   an automated system yeah I would be

00:32:13   willing to bet that there is no town or

00:32:16   local government that wouldn't over turn

00:32:18   that ticket if they had a record of the

00:32:20   ambulance going through at that moment

00:32:21   that sounds like a lot of work for me to

00:32:23   write a letter in and say actually this

00:32:25   is what I was doing and for them to go

00:32:27   and like check the records I actually

00:32:30   there was an ambulance that probably had

00:32:31   to go that way that day because there

00:32:33   was this you know it seems like a lot of

00:32:34   fattening yeah I mean it's going to be

00:32:36   some faffing I think it's also going to

00:32:38   be very rare but I think it's going to

00:32:40   have happened also if you don't want to

00:32:42   write a letter to the council I'll

00:32:43   remind you of the time that you severely

00:32:46   packaged up whatever the hell it was two

00:32:48   pence to send to that company that you

00:32:50   need to pay every once in a while you

00:32:52   know you're a man who could do some

00:32:53   faffing right I'm trying to sound not

00:32:55   grumpy for a minute hey you don't have

00:32:56   to bring that up again no Brady it they

00:32:58   don't mean to grandpa feiyu everybody

00:33:00   loves a happy Brady nobody loves a

00:33:02   grumpy Brady complaining about things

00:33:03   that's not fun for anybody at all I know

00:33:05   you don't drive in the UK but you you do

00:33:07   drive in this

00:33:08   it's occasionally like do you enjoy that

00:33:10   when you get to like you know do some

00:33:12   cool jumping out the way of the

00:33:13   ambulance action might be a hero as

00:33:15   always with these things Brady I am

00:33:18   charmed by the way your mind just works

00:33:22   differently like I find it really

00:33:23   charming that you're thinking of

00:33:25   yourself as a hero when you do this okay

00:33:28   like a thrill of excitement for pulling

00:33:30   out of the way I don't actually think

00:33:32   I'm a hero but what I feel is like a

00:33:34   camaraderie that we're all pulling in to

00:33:36   help like I don't think like I've saved

00:33:38   a life

00:33:39   but I do through this crime battery with

00:33:41   my fellow drivers that we've all pulled

00:33:43   together for a common cause and suddenly

00:33:44   we've all been linked together and we're

00:33:46   all doing a good thing but the thing is

00:33:48   really my view of this is like obviously

00:33:50   of course it's great that everybody does

00:33:52   this but it's like a tit-for-tat thing

00:33:54   in society we all do this because we

00:33:57   also want other people to do this when

00:33:59   we're in the ambulance yeah of course

00:34:00   yeah that's why this works but that's

00:34:02   how this is happening that's funny

00:34:03   actually I never think about the fact

00:34:05   that could be a person in the ambulance

00:34:07   it's always my assumption the ambulance

00:34:09   is going to the place where the

00:34:11   emergency is and I'm probably right more

00:34:13   than I'm wrong because if they've got

00:34:14   the lights on and stuff they probably

00:34:16   haven't got the person yet because

00:34:17   normally when the person's in the

00:34:18   ambulance they're treating them they

00:34:20   don't drive so fast it's like less dire

00:34:23   because they're already treating the

00:34:24   person and although I'm going to say

00:34:26   that the distinction without a

00:34:27   difference though because you still need

00:34:28   to get the ambulance there yeah yeah

00:34:29   yeah yeah no it's just interesting that

00:34:32   you thought there was like a sick person

00:34:33   in there and in your sort of made-up

00:34:35   version in your head and mine was the

00:34:36   opposite I guess this was again one of

00:34:37   these things I never really thought

00:34:38   about but it does make sense that they

00:34:40   can be a little bit more relaxed on the

00:34:41   way back to the hospital as opposed to

00:34:43   the way out of the hospital well they

00:34:44   probably also don't want to go swinging

00:34:45   around barreling around corners and

00:34:47   stuff when there's like yeah well it's

00:34:48   like an old lady who's fallen down the

00:34:49   stairs that's right I was like we got to

00:34:53   go to the hospital as fast as possible I

00:34:55   Drive like a maniac over those speed

00:34:57   bumps is like now is probably not a good

00:34:58   idea I know a lot of ambulance drivers

00:34:59   listen to hello Internet

00:35:01   which doesn't surprise me because it's a

00:35:02   job I imagine with a lot of sitting

00:35:04   around downtime yeah almost certainly

00:35:06   there's a lot of downtime with that all

00:35:07   the ambulance drivers out there

00:35:08   listening to hello Internet

00:35:10   thank you for what you do thank you for

00:35:14   keeping all these people alive thank you

00:35:16   tweet gray if you need an ambulance

00:35:18   nope do not tweet gray if you're in an

00:35:20   ambulance

00:35:20   that is not what I want gray I've been

00:35:25   spending more and more time in London

00:35:27   lately for various work reasons and I

00:35:29   was there for a few days recently as you

00:35:31   know yes we saw each other but I had to

00:35:34   get a few Ebers and cabs around the

00:35:37   place and I'm really struggling with

00:35:39   black cabs versus ubers you did mention

00:35:44   last episode or a couple episodes ago

00:35:46   that you were falling out of love with

00:35:47   uber and I was I found this an

00:35:48   interesting little throwaway Brady

00:35:52   comment so I was kind of wondering

00:35:53   what's going on with that well this is

00:35:55   more of a London thing in this

00:35:57   particular context that I was talking

00:35:59   about America when I was talking about

00:36:00   that and I do mainly still use uber in

00:36:03   the States but in London I'm now not

00:36:05   sure which is the best way to go black

00:36:08   cab or uber because I'm having good and

00:36:10   bad experiences with each mm-hmm and the

00:36:14   main thing that it centers around the

00:36:17   main difference is black cab drivers

00:36:20   know where they're going and that is a

00:36:23   very important skill in London more so

00:36:26   than other cities all the little

00:36:28   shortcuts all the little what do they

00:36:29   call it the knowledge and things like

00:36:31   that those little things matter in

00:36:33   London more than almost any other city

00:36:35   you can drive in and most urban drivers

00:36:38   just sort of follow their sat-nav they

00:36:40   don't know where they're going

00:36:40   I swear they would drive into the Thames

00:36:42   if their phone told them to like they

00:36:44   just follow where they're supposed to go

00:36:46   and they go there and it results in some

00:36:48   really slow journeys and roundabout ways

00:36:51   of getting places whereas black cab

00:36:53   drivers like they'll see a little

00:36:54   traffic jam ahead and they know if they

00:36:56   go down that Lane and turn left and do a

00:36:57   right and cut through the park they'll

00:36:59   get somewhere twice as quick they know

00:37:01   the layer of London better and sometimes

00:37:03   that's very advantageous hmm I'd be

00:37:06   surprised if you could question that

00:37:08   that seems to be the case to me on the

00:37:11   other hand black cab drivers can be

00:37:15   absolute asses and if they decide they

00:37:20   do or don't want to go somewhere or do

00:37:21   something that's it they don't care

00:37:24   about customer service a new bird driver

00:37:26   will take you where you got to go

00:37:27   because they've got to get their money

00:37:28   and not get in trouble from uber mmm-hmm

00:37:29   a black cab driver might just look at a

00:37:31   traffic jam ahead and go I can't be

00:37:33   doing with that

00:37:34   just kick you out of the car have you

00:37:36   had that happen I have had that happen

00:37:37   I've been in cars what I've said all

00:37:38   this is going to take for ages I think

00:37:40   you just get out now the other day

00:37:42   though I was at Paddington I was staying

00:37:44   at Paddington next to Paddington train

00:37:45   station and I needed to get across to

00:37:48   another part of town the driver went a

00:37:50   certain way where he thought he would be

00:37:52   able to cut through a park it turns out

00:37:54   there were roadworks and he got diverted

00:37:55   and then he got caught in a jam and he

00:37:57   went down a lane and he took all these

00:37:59   twisty turns there was 15 pounds on the

00:38:02   fare the meter we turned a corner and we

00:38:05   were back at Paddington Station where

00:38:08   the trip started I said to him I'm

00:38:11   getting out now and getting the tube and

00:38:13   he said yeah that's probably a good idea

00:38:15   and soon took my money I mean look I

00:38:18   mean this this is the thing Brady you

00:38:19   said oh I can't deny that the knowledge

00:38:22   of all of these tiny little London

00:38:23   streets is valuable it's like yeah I

00:38:27   know what you mean by that

00:38:28   but that exact situation that you just

00:38:31   described is the thing that I think

00:38:33   people don't account for which is taxi

00:38:35   cab drivers they can't possibly know

00:38:36   what the situation is on all the little

00:38:38   side streets and if they're turning off

00:38:40   on some side story like they can't know

00:38:42   what construction is occurring or what

00:38:44   roads are shut down like that's not

00:38:45   going to happen when I'm in an uber

00:38:47   there's a little thing that I learned

00:38:48   about the driving directions on uber

00:38:52   from one of the drivers which I found

00:38:53   really interesting so if I get in an

00:38:55   uber and I see that the driver is not

00:38:58   using their sat-nav which enough of them

00:39:02   do and this seems to be actually a

00:39:05   former taxi cab driver kind of thing

00:39:07   like a guy who used to drive for

00:39:09   something else is gone for uber that

00:39:12   always makes me nervous right because

00:39:13   it's like here's a guy who's just going

00:39:15   to try to drive across the city using

00:39:17   what's ever in his head and I never I

00:39:18   never want them to do that but when they

00:39:20   are allowed to do is somewhere within

00:39:22   the app they have a setting where they

00:39:24   can tell ober which of the various

00:39:27   mapping services they want Ober to use

00:39:31   to get them from point A to point B so

00:39:33   they can say like oh I want to use Apple

00:39:35   Maps or I want to use Google Maps or I

00:39:37   want to use Waze I wish in uber I had a

00:39:41   setting where I could just say listen to

00:39:44   BER driver when you pick me up I know

00:39:46   you might think you know a better way

00:39:48   but could you just use Google Maps just

00:39:50   use Google Maps they do the live traffic

00:39:53   stuff they check every few minutes to

00:39:55   see if there's a faster way they're

00:39:57   crowdsourcing all the data on the road

00:39:59   so they know exactly how all the roads

00:40:00   are doing right at this very moment just

00:40:02   use that like I don't want you to use

00:40:04   your human judgement about what you

00:40:06   think should happen I want you to use

00:40:08   the collective knowledge and

00:40:09   automatically updated information that's

00:40:12   something like Google Maps has don't use

00:40:15   Apple maps because they don't do that

00:40:16   same thing it's just going to drive you

00:40:17   down the same busy streets all the time

00:40:19   I wish like I could force the driver to

00:40:22   use Google Maps from my end as opposed

00:40:25   to either trying to use his own brain or

00:40:26   trying to use a worse mapping service I

00:40:29   mean I can't comment on Google Maps

00:40:31   versus Apple maps and I know like you

00:40:33   know I know about controversies and

00:40:35   opinions and I'll take your word for

00:40:36   that Google Maps is loads better that

00:40:38   would make sense to me and I also don't

00:40:40   know what devices some of the drivers

00:40:43   I've experienced were using maybe none

00:40:46   of them were using Google Maps but I do

00:40:48   think London can be bit of an exception

00:40:51   and I do think sometimes a little bit of

00:40:53   common sense like just a human looking

00:40:57   out the window can override what even

00:41:00   the best app is telling them to do

00:41:02   because I've been times where I've going

00:41:04   somewhere and the place we're heading is

00:41:05   in front of us and I can see it in the

00:41:08   clear roads in front of us and suddenly

00:41:10   they'll veer off down some side street

00:41:12   because an app told them to and I'm like

00:41:13   what are you doing like we were nearly

00:41:16   there and you know the apps are getting

00:41:17   better and better but sometimes a human

00:41:19   does kind of know stuff that maybe the

00:41:22   app doesn't know or can't see or hasn't

00:41:24   updated yet but I respect what you're

00:41:26   saying and I see both sides of this and

00:41:29   I do get a bit frustrated by uber

00:41:30   drivers in London I think they make

00:41:32   silly silly decisions I think they're

00:41:35   like you know do whatever the computer

00:41:36   says and I don't always think that's the

00:41:38   best yeah that's exactly what I want

00:41:39   do whatever the computer says okay so

00:41:43   speaking of London I would like to

00:41:46   register on this podcast a formal

00:41:48   complaint with the city government of

00:41:51   London is you never talk about rubbish

00:41:53   again I we've learned our lesson brady

00:41:55   there's some topics that we should

00:41:57   probably avoid on this podcast the news

00:41:59   rubbish collection

00:42:01   these are things that are just they're

00:42:03   too intense to be discussed about let's

00:42:06   just stick to politics in religion no

00:42:07   cock bitch of nerds uh but I was in

00:42:11   central London the other day and in

00:42:13   particular I was at a place where just

00:42:15   for the circumstances of life I haven't

00:42:16   been in probably years which is

00:42:20   Trafalgar Square yeah I suddenly realize

00:42:23   like oh I used to be in this area all

00:42:24   the time and for whatever reason like

00:42:26   some of the patterns my life changed I

00:42:28   just hadn't been there for forever and I

00:42:29   was I was walking around if you ask

00:42:31   people to name places in London

00:42:33   Trafalgar Square has got to be in the

00:42:35   top three of like places they can name

00:42:36   you know for tourist stuff and boy was I

00:42:40   disappointed with the way that your

00:42:43   fungus Square is set up now hmm because

00:42:45   here's the thing Trafalgar Square now

00:42:49   has little signs everywhere that are all

00:42:53   about safety they're all about telling

00:42:56   you what you can't do so if you ever see

00:43:00   footage of Trafalgar Square

00:43:01   like olden days footage of Trafalgar

00:43:03   Square there were probably three things

00:43:06   that you're going to identify as the fun

00:43:09   things in Trafalgar Square why it would

00:43:11   be a tourist attraction

00:43:13   rahhh number one enormous flocks of

00:43:16   pigeons everywhere yeah now years ago

00:43:19   they got rid of the pigeons which I can

00:43:23   sort of be okay with like I can kind of

00:43:25   understand wanting to get rid of the

00:43:27   pigeons but there's no pigeons there

00:43:29   anymore the other two things the things

00:43:32   that remained into fogger Square were

00:43:35   people playing in the fountains and

00:43:36   people climbing on the lions yeah okay

00:43:40   but now in Trafalgar Square

00:43:42   there are signs everywhere everywhere

00:43:45   telling you you're not allowed in the

00:43:48   fountains and you're not allowed on the

00:43:50   Lions you're not allowed on the lawns

00:43:51   anymore yeah there's a big sign that

00:43:54   says don't sit on the lion right in each

00:43:57   fountain there are four signs telling

00:44:01   you you're not allowed in the fountains

00:44:03   and there's a security guy who was

00:44:07   admittedly half-heartedly but

00:44:09   nonetheless still doing it telling

00:44:11   people to get off the Lions at Trafalgar

00:44:13   Square is that the same person who has

00:44:15   the job of

00:44:15   telling you to be quiet and not take

00:44:17   photos in the Sistine Chapel maybe like

00:44:21   I honestly kind of felt bad for the guy

00:44:23   he did seem to be real half-hearted

00:44:25   about it but here's the thing so it's

00:44:26   like okay I'm standing into fog square I

00:44:28   was just like this place is now kind of

00:44:31   awful because all of the things that

00:44:34   were interesting you're not supposed to

00:44:36   do anymore

00:44:36   it's like okay you got rid of the

00:44:38   pigeons whatever but if you also get rid

00:44:41   of the other two things then there's

00:44:42   just nothing here right then what it is

00:44:45   is it's actually just this like barren

00:44:48   area of concrete for the most part that

00:44:51   has no real interest like I was standing

00:44:53   there looking at like why would any

00:44:55   tourists actually come to see Trafalgar

00:44:57   Square at this point it's just mostly

00:44:59   concrete yeah I guess you got to cut

00:45:01   through it to get to the nice art

00:45:02   galleries but that's about it really

00:45:04   that's exactly it and the other thing is

00:45:06   like okay so all of these things you

00:45:07   can't do but what you can do is be a

00:45:11   really low effort cheap busker right in

00:45:16   front of the art galleries yeah right

00:45:18   yeah I'm staying there in Trafalgar

00:45:20   Square and no joke

00:45:23   I'm counting there are one two three of

00:45:27   those floating Yoda guys sitting in

00:45:30   front of the art gallery yeah right

00:45:32   everywhere those things yeah but there

00:45:35   are three of them within eyesight of

00:45:38   each other

00:45:38   floating yarda guys yeah you know what

00:45:41   I'm talking about I know exactly what I

00:45:42   mean the guy they're all doing that

00:45:44   stupid cheap trick where like for a

00:45:46   split second it looks like they're

00:45:47   floating until you realize oh right

00:45:49   they're floating above a platform and

00:45:51   they have a staff that goes down to the

00:45:52   platform and the staff is just holding

00:45:53   them up right with a ring around their

00:45:55   back it's like yeah it takes a child two

00:45:57   seconds it's like why do people give

00:45:58   these guys money right I don't

00:46:00   understand why three of them are allowed

00:46:03   it's like the thing that drives me crazy

00:46:05   about is like mr. falker Square there's

00:46:07   nothing to goddamn do here now there's

00:46:10   the National Art Gallery like just a big

00:46:13   incredibly impressive art gallery yep

00:46:17   and right in front of it it's just like

00:46:19   you've planted an enormous turd of like

00:46:21   here's just three cheapo buskers who are

00:46:25   standing here yeah there's also another

00:46:26   busker which was I'm sure

00:46:28   properly licensed minion from that

00:46:31   stupid movie just standing around like

00:46:34   the thing that bothered me more as well

00:46:36   is like okay so they have these stupid

00:46:37   Buster guys there's also the people who

00:46:39   are then just like drawing on the

00:46:41   sidewalk as well alright people who are

00:46:43   like doing artwork on the sidewalk and

00:46:45   one of them I looked down and I was like

00:46:47   okay oasiz mildly interesting this guy

00:46:49   is doing all of the flags of the world

00:46:51   right in front of the Yoda

00:46:54   so it's like left hand side of Trafalgar

00:46:56   Square there's a Yoda and in front of

00:46:57   him is this guy drawing all these flags

00:46:59   it's like okay least this guy's putting

00:47:01   some effort into what he's doing a bunch

00:47:02   of flags it's kind of like an

00:47:03   interesting thing to do it's interesting

00:47:04   to look at that's fine I walked to the

00:47:07   other end of the square past one Yoda

00:47:09   and then when I get to the final Yoda

00:47:10   who is on the opposite side guess what's

00:47:12   in front of him a guy doing flags the

00:47:14   exact same goddamn thing like the same

00:47:17   flags in the same order and it's like

00:47:18   you're not even like a whole bunch of

00:47:19   individual buskers doing your own thing

00:47:21   like this is that you're now like these

00:47:22   charity harassers that always come in

00:47:24   pairs right because they know they're

00:47:26   gonna get you depending on which side of

00:47:27   the street you're coming from yeah so

00:47:29   all of these things together turn to

00:47:30   fogger Square to me into just like this

00:47:32   boring depressing ugly cheap feeling

00:47:37   area filled with signs telling you what

00:47:40   not to do and also just filled with the

00:47:43   junk iasts minimal effort begging for

00:47:46   money entertainment in front of a

00:47:48   world-class art gallery there could

00:47:51   possibly be I just sent you an iMessage

00:47:53   a couple of the photos that I took the

00:47:55   do not climb on the line sign is very

00:47:57   bespoke that is the Trafalgar Square

00:47:59   lion right like they want to make it

00:48:01   really clear that you're not supposed to

00:48:02   climb on that lion they should make

00:48:04   those signs and put them around safari

00:48:05   parks in Africa too

00:48:06   yes there it would be genuinely more

00:48:08   advisable not to climb on the lion that

00:48:10   would be a really bad idea

00:48:11   but it bothers me as well because if you

00:48:14   look at these pictures I'll put them in

00:48:16   the show notes the signs are not just

00:48:18   signs they're like big placards they're

00:48:20   like everywhere there's so many of them

00:48:22   and they're very like brutal in their

00:48:24   design yeah they're very brutal in their

00:48:26   design in addition to every sign telling

00:48:29   you not to do something so don't feed

00:48:31   the pigeons which is a sign that's like

00:48:33   the size of a small child just dispersed

00:48:35   all over this concrete expanse on the

00:48:38   back of every one of them there's a

00:48:40   gigantic CCTV in operation

00:48:42   with a camera that's like looking down

00:48:44   upon you on the crowd it's like they're

00:48:46   trying to make this place the most

00:48:47   unfriendly estate in the whole of the

00:48:50   city it's like wherever you look it

00:48:51   don't feed the pigeons don't get on the

00:48:53   Lions don't get in the fountains and by

00:48:55   the way we're watching you with cameras

00:48:56   all the time if you were put in charge

00:48:57   of Trafalgar Square for 24 hours and you

00:49:00   could do what you want and change what

00:49:01   you wanted what would you do to improve

00:49:03   the place I'd bring back everything now

00:49:04   he'd started a pigeon breeding program I

00:49:07   swear to God I would write I loved the

00:49:09   pigeons when I was that that was the my

00:49:11   favorite thing when I was a terrorist

00:49:12   yes taking pictures of like my

00:49:14   girlfriend getting attacked by pigeons

00:49:15   yeah everybody did that like I remember

00:49:17   it it was really fun when I first came

00:49:19   to the city and the pigeons were here

00:49:20   are you walking through Trafalgar Square

00:49:22   and he always felt like a little bit

00:49:23   like you're taking your life into your

00:49:24   own hands why for these huge swarms of

00:49:26   pigeons going all over the place but it

00:49:27   was great it was a notable memorable

00:49:32   like fun thing for tourists to do is

00:49:34   like oh yeah you go to Trafalgar Square

00:49:35   and there is a swarm of pigeons like

00:49:38   you're gonna see nowhere else in the

00:49:39   world again I was okay with getting rid

00:49:42   of the pigeons but that was like under

00:49:44   the implied assumption that like oh

00:49:46   people could still play in the fountains

00:49:47   and climb on the lions right but if you

00:49:49   take away everything now I feel like the

00:49:51   hell with its health and safety gone mad

00:49:53   I tell you it makes me angry like and it

00:49:55   makes me want to call for people to just

00:49:57   be like this like climb the Lions right

00:50:00   like when you go to Trafalgar Square

00:50:01   like get on the goddamn lion right grey

00:50:04   I want you to go there this week and

00:50:05   take a picture of yourself up on the

00:50:07   line put it in the show notes like Brady

00:50:09   here's the thing I did go on the line

00:50:12   you climbed up on the line yeah I did I

00:50:14   only have a picture from the back but

00:50:16   it's like look I got up on the thing and

00:50:18   I took a picture from the back of the

00:50:20   lion and I'm like the hell with this

00:50:21   like screw you with your signs

00:50:23   I waited for the little guard guy to

00:50:25   walk away but like I'm still gonna go on

00:50:27   this thing you're giving oh I I'm like

00:50:29   stop this I'm doing it look at guys oh

00:50:32   nice break I'm no fool I like I want to

00:50:34   call for people to climb the Lions I

00:50:36   want to call for people to go to the

00:50:37   pools and you know what it makes you

00:50:39   want to do it makes me want to buy bread

00:50:40   and spread it all over the whole center

00:50:42   of the place bring the pigeons back it

00:50:44   really does like all of these signs is

00:50:45   too far it's unreasonable it makes me

00:50:48   angry and it makes me feel like engaging

00:50:50   in civil disobedience and calling upon

00:50:52   the whole of the audience to engage in

00:50:54   civil disobedience at Trafalgar Square

00:50:55   all right

00:50:56   you disagree Brady do you think it's

00:50:58   reasonable to say you can't climb on the

00:50:59   Lions I think you should be allowed to

00:51:01   climb on the Lions I can't believe

00:51:03   you're not allowed to I think you should

00:51:04   be allowed to go in the fountain I don't

00:51:06   know if like you should whip up a frenzy

00:51:09   of civil disobedience and I think maybe

00:51:12   we should like campaign for the laws to

00:51:14   change or the bylaws or the rules or the

00:51:16   regulation or the whatever they've done

00:51:19   well that sounds like a lot less fun and

00:51:21   a lot more work yeah would you be

00:51:23   willing to retweet people who take

00:51:24   photos of themselves on the line if it's

00:51:26   date stamped after the date of this

00:51:28   podcast I'm not signing up to retweet

00:51:31   everybody in the universe here Brady but

00:51:32   I buy the first 10 the first 10 people

00:51:34   who do it if I see some interesting acts

00:51:36   of Trafalgar Square civil disobedience I

00:51:40   will be sure to promote them you know I

00:51:41   want to say the Tim's Day I want to see

00:51:43   them get a picture of someone sitting on

00:51:46   a line on the Wikipedia page for

00:51:48   Trafalgar Square luck that page down Oh

00:51:54   Brady I wish you wouldn't call for these

00:51:56   constant messing around with the

00:51:58   Wikipedia by the way the black stamp is

00:52:00   on the page last I checked oh yeah oh

00:52:02   yeah yeah sanity has prevailed

00:52:04   what is the listed source for my tea

00:52:06   black stamp is the podcast there's this

00:52:07   page this Emporia State which does stuff

00:52:10   to do with skyscrapers and buildings and

00:52:12   stuff and it was referred to on that so

00:52:14   that's what they're using I'm very happy

00:52:16   for you Brady thank you does the mighty

00:52:18   black stump it would be gone by the end

00:52:19   of this segment

00:52:22   we can trust the audience right though

00:52:24   they will protect the mighty black stump

00:52:26   on that page they don't no not mighty

00:52:28   just blacks yeah the mighty black stump

00:52:30   that's why I said they'll protect that

00:52:31   on the page

00:52:31   just as it should be and that's

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00:53:51   experience you really can just focus on

00:53:54   the nice creative stuff and not get

00:53:56   driven crazy by all that technical

00:53:58   minutia if that's not something you want

00:54:00   to be dealing with - give it a go visit

00:54:02   squarespace.com slash hello and then

00:54:06   when you're asked for a code use hello

00:54:08   and you're going to get 10% off your

00:54:10   first purchase that squarespace.com

00:54:13   slash hello and the code hello that also

00:54:16   lets them know you're a Tim and it gets

00:54:18   a little star put next to our name as a

00:54:20   podcast but no matter what you do if you

00:54:23   want an online presence and I don't know

00:54:25   what you're doing if you don't think

00:54:26   you'll benefit from some sort of online

00:54:28   home then Squarespace is going to be

00:54:30   your savior now thanks to them for

00:54:32   supporting the podcast speaking of

00:54:35   Wikipedia it has been drawn to my

00:54:38   attention from a few Wikipedia editors

00:54:40   that there's a bit of a kerfuffle

00:54:42   happening over on the mail and gear page

00:54:45   apparently is a bit of a fight as to

00:54:48   whether or not

00:54:49   Wikipedia has the right to use that

00:54:52   image whether or not it is in the public

00:54:55   domain because on our show where we

00:54:59   talked about the flag a long time ago I

00:55:01   made some comments that sounded vaguely

00:55:03   like the public domain but I didn't

00:55:06   actually say the words the public domain

00:55:08   I said something like the nail and gear

00:55:10   flag belongs to the people but so I just

00:55:14   want to get it on record here for

00:55:16   Wikipedia editors and Tim's everywhere

00:55:21   citizens of the podcast

00:55:23   that the hello Internet flag the

00:55:26   official flag is in the public domain

00:55:29   that's the Nile and giya that is the

00:55:31   nail in gear yeah there's no other flag

00:55:33   there's no other contingent that could

00:55:35   possibly happen here just to be clear

00:55:36   but not the HEI logo you're saying

00:55:38   here's actually where I want to go with

00:55:40   this right it's like yeah we'll get to

00:55:41   this in a second okay the nail and gear

00:55:44   is in the public domain you can make

00:55:46   your own Flags you can do whatever you

00:55:49   want with this because I feel like just

00:55:51   like national flags I think most

00:55:54   national flags if not all national flags

00:55:56   are in the public domain like the

00:55:58   citizens can do what they want with them

00:56:00   I know for sure that the United States

00:56:01   flag is in that case like that's

00:56:03   absolutely great I want to put it here

00:56:05   on the record it was born of the people

00:56:07   for the people who are we to even be

00:56:09   giving our permission

00:56:10   that's exactly my feeling of this right

00:56:12   is it's like this is of the community

00:56:15   for the community and so it would feel

00:56:18   really wrong for us to say like oh thank

00:56:22   you community for gifting us with this

00:56:24   flag we will now have copyright over it

00:56:27   for the life of the creators Plus 70

00:56:29   years right like it would just seem

00:56:31   wrong but if you want to make a video of

00:56:33   yourself reacting to the flag that's a

00:56:35   whole other thing and you got to take

00:56:36   that up with the farm brothers here's

00:56:38   the thing Brady I want to get that on

00:56:40   record for the Wikipedia I'm almost

00:56:42   hesitant to do it because I feel like I

00:56:44   have been I've been coming up against

00:56:49   very recently another another kind of

00:56:52   tale in the world of freebooting and

00:56:57   using other people's intellectual

00:56:58   property that I don't quite know how to

00:57:00   deal with yeah and one of those things

00:57:03   is actually related to exactly what you

00:57:05   brought up before which is I've seen

00:57:08   people making free booted bootleg hello

00:57:13   internet merchandise under this exact

00:57:17   premise of oh the nail in gear is in the

00:57:22   public domain so everything they do on

00:57:26   the podcast

00:57:27   they must be cool with people just

00:57:29   making whatever they want from it taking

00:57:32   the logo and using it on other stuff

00:57:33   taking things that we've said and use

00:57:36   on merchandise or in posters or in all

00:57:38   kinds of things I feel like it's very

00:57:40   hard to make it clear that it's like

00:57:44   this one thing is in the public domain

00:57:47   but that doesn't mean the whole of the

00:57:49   podcast is just like free for people to

00:57:53   use for commercial purposes and the

00:57:56   thing that is on top of this which I

00:57:58   want to know if you have gotten any

00:57:59   emails like this Brady because I feel

00:58:01   like I have gotten a whole bunch of

00:58:03   these in the past month which is an

00:58:06   email along these lines someone takes

00:58:08   something either from my videos or from

00:58:11   the podcasts they're freebooting it in

00:58:13   some manner or they're making

00:58:15   merchandise and selling it in some

00:58:16   manner and I get an email that says this

00:58:19   oh hey CGP grey I have made some

00:58:24   merchandise with your intellectual

00:58:26   property or I have re-uploaded your

00:58:28   videos to some other site or I have

00:58:30   redubbed your videos with my own voice

00:58:33   if you're not ok with this please just

00:58:39   let me know and I'll take it down a

00:58:41   hyper do you get these do you get these

00:58:44   yes yes okay I mean I get more along the

00:58:48   lines of saying you know can i reavoice

00:58:51   all your videos with my Italian voice

00:58:53   and reload them to YouTube mm-hmm which

00:58:55   like they think that would just be fine

00:58:57   which it isn't but yeah you must engage

00:58:59   with me and have a conversation with me

00:59:01   if you want to stop me infringing upon

00:59:03   you yes terrible it's interesting as I

00:59:06   haven't seen this before but just in the

00:59:08   past couple months like I have suddenly

00:59:09   gotten a whole bunch of these this feels

00:59:12   to me like the new copyright not

00:59:13   intended where people are like Oh

00:59:17   permission implied right unless you tell

00:59:20   me otherwise and if you think you're

00:59:22   going to get a response from grey god

00:59:24   join the queue I know it's like you're

00:59:28   putting the burden on the person from

00:59:31   whom you are infringing on in the first

00:59:34   place it feels like it's a double insult

00:59:36   and it almost feels like it's a triple

00:59:38   insult because it's like this facade of

00:59:41   politeness like oh hey I just want to

00:59:44   let you know I'm using your words and

00:59:46   your artwork to make some money for

00:59:48   myself but if

00:59:49   that's not cool with you guys just let

00:59:52   me know and I'll be sure to take it down

00:59:53   immediately yeah it feels like some

00:59:55   people out there feel like they've

00:59:56   figured out some kind of legal loophole

00:59:58   right with just like oh he doesn't

00:59:58   right with just like oh he doesn't

01:00:00   and if he doesn't get back to me then

01:00:02   it's all aboveboard because he had a

01:00:04   possibility to get back to me so I agree

01:00:06   there too you think one is there's that

01:00:08   legal loophole thing and the other thing

01:00:09   is if it's a bit more Fanny it was like

01:00:11   an attempt to at least you know have a

01:00:13   conversation with you but yeah it drives

01:00:15   me crazy I completely 100% agree with

01:00:17   you and it can work the other way too

01:00:19   this sort of hoping that silence will

01:00:21   mean you get away with something I got

01:00:23   really badly free booted by mail online

01:00:26   again recently surprise surprise and

01:00:29   I've been like I sent them a bunch of

01:00:30   emails like I always kick up a fuss with

01:00:33   them and and they always end up having

01:00:34   to concede and you know either make a

01:00:37   payment or to do some sort of action but

01:00:39   what they do now is they just don't

01:00:40   reply to your emails and then eventually

01:00:42   you send so many they replied say I care

01:00:44   yep I'll get back to this on that

01:00:45   shortly and then they'll just ignore you

01:00:47   again for like weeks and weeks those

01:00:49   every few weeks I have to just keep

01:00:50   emailing them and they just it's hoping

01:00:52   that something will just like slide by

01:00:54   mm-hmm because there's so much stuff now

01:00:57   and it works so well I'm sure so much of

01:00:59   your stuff is getting stolen and

01:01:01   exploited in that that you almost can't

01:01:03   monitor at all so they're just hoping

01:01:05   stuff will slip through the cracks and

01:01:06   they'll have this little on the record

01:01:09   paper trail as well though I did try to

01:01:10   speak to him at least that's the thing

01:01:12   that frustrates me and I feel like I

01:01:15   want to bring it up because there's two

01:01:17   things I think are happening here it's

01:01:18   like that are a little bit related and

01:01:20   it's the the flag belongs to the people

01:01:23   for hello Internet then somehow gets

01:01:25   expanded to everything is a-ok and then

01:01:29   I think the other thing that you and I

01:01:31   are probably both victim to is this oh

01:01:34   you're making things in the field of

01:01:36   education so we're all in the business

01:01:39   of spreading around knowledge right like

01:01:42   you wouldn't be against spreading around

01:01:43   knowledge so you don't mind if I take

01:01:46   all of your videos and redub them and

01:01:48   just spread the word like I'm doing you

01:01:50   a favor like I'm promoting your stuff

01:01:51   and you just let me know if for some

01:01:54   personal reason that's not okay with you

01:01:57   but otherwise I'll keep doing this thing

01:01:58   that benefits me that has this like

01:02:01   skirt of decency like open I'm just

01:02:04   doing it for education that's the thing

01:02:05   that bothers me it's like it feels like

01:02:06   like an assumption like an expanse of

01:02:10   permission or like a disregard of

01:02:13   Gouri so this also this leaking of

01:02:16   implied consent mm-hmm also like makes

01:02:20   me more wary than I should be because

01:02:24   like for example if someone emails me

01:02:25   and says are you know I'm doing a

01:02:28   presentation to my school class this

01:02:32   week and I want to show your video as

01:02:34   part of it just like you know on the

01:02:36   screen before I do my talk mm-hmm like

01:02:38   you know who's going to object to that

01:02:41   you know I wouldn't object to that you

01:02:43   wouldn't object to that that's just a

01:02:44   thing but I won't send them an email

01:02:45   back saying yeah that's fine

01:02:47   because then they've got an email from

01:02:49   me saying they have permission to use my

01:02:52   video and then they go oh I'm gonna

01:02:54   upload it to YouTube as well mm-hmm and

01:02:56   then suddenly they can point to this

01:02:58   like email I've sent where I've said you

01:02:59   can use the video so unless I have to

01:03:01   write this trakone Ian's email to some

01:03:03   school kids saying you can use it once

01:03:05   and only once and you cannot upload it

01:03:07   anywhere and like have to put all these

01:03:09   like Trafalgar Square style regulations

01:03:11   on my email right I can't just say to

01:03:14   like a school kid yeah okay because like

01:03:16   then it's like you've said yes and what

01:03:19   else does that mean maybe this is the

01:03:21   problem that's happened with nailing

01:03:22   gear as well you know you gave an inch

01:03:24   and they take a mile I have been in that

01:03:26   exact situation actually which is

01:03:28   earlier in my career when people are

01:03:31   making totally reasonable requests like

01:03:32   that like oh hey I want to use one of

01:03:34   your videos in a not commercial way

01:03:37   privately like within my school yeah and

01:03:39   repel like yeah it's totally fine like

01:03:41   who would say no to that

01:03:42   right who would say no to that and then

01:03:45   I later found my videos being used in

01:03:48   educational software being sold on a

01:03:51   commercial level to schools

01:03:53   yeah and they point back to like oh you

01:03:55   said it was okay to use your videos in

01:03:56   schools like oh great like I have had

01:03:59   that exact thing happen to me where it's

01:04:00   like oh no you you gave consent you said

01:04:03   it was okay here and now we have to have

01:04:04   some argument over my exact wording

01:04:07   click in an email that I thought was for

01:04:10   one thing and was not for another thing

01:04:11   yeah it is this like unfortunate

01:04:13   situation where it feels like it's kind

01:04:16   of ruined for everyone yeah because then

01:04:18   I'm in a position where I can't say yes

01:04:21   to reasonable things because I've had

01:04:23   that held against me in the past

01:04:25   yeah they just makes it feel bad all

01:04:27   around and I just really don't like

01:04:30   these people who think they're getting

01:04:32   around the system by writing you a

01:04:34   letter to let you know that you're okay

01:04:36   with a thing unless you say no it makes

01:04:39   me very mad it makes me very sad it

01:04:41   makes me frustrated Brady I don't like

01:04:43   it one bit the thing that put me over

01:04:45   the edge for this was just this week I

01:04:47   got an email from some guy at a

01:04:50   marketing company who set up a meeting

01:04:52   between the two of us and he wrote me to

01:04:55   let me know to tell me to tell him

01:04:58   if I didn't want to go to that meeting

01:05:00   but otherwise it was in the calendar I

01:05:02   did not reply to him well he's probably

01:05:06   still sitting in some coffee shop

01:05:07   waiting for you

01:05:08   good I have got a little copyright gripe

01:05:10   that I was going to bring up it's sort

01:05:12   of paper cutting I guess and that is

01:05:14   when people pinch YouTube footage or

01:05:17   even if they pinch pictures this is an

01:05:20   old media thing like newspapers and TV

01:05:22   do this and maybe even they're allowed

01:05:25   to be using it I'm not even going to

01:05:26   argue with that because there is a fair

01:05:27   use sometimes defense so maybe even

01:05:30   they're using it fairly probably not but

01:05:32   maybe

01:05:33   but regardless when they give the credit

01:05:36   they credit YouTube or Facebook so

01:05:38   they'll be like you know someone's video

01:05:40   they've uploaded to YouTube and just as

01:05:42   pictures courtesy of YouTube pictures

01:05:44   from YouTube picture courtesy of

01:05:46   Facebook you know what I love about that

01:05:51   well is I feel like did you reach out to

01:05:54   YouTube and even even ask did YouTube

01:05:58   give you some kind of general permission

01:06:01   to just use all of the videos on their

01:06:03   site like I don't think you even have a

01:06:05   courtesy of claimed here even if the

01:06:08   word courtesy isn't used even if that is

01:06:10   trying to credit even the source of the

01:06:12   footage I'm not even talking about

01:06:13   whether they have the rights to use the

01:06:15   footage or not they probably don't

01:06:16   mm-hmm but maybe they do have a right to

01:06:19   user in some fair use contemporary news

01:06:21   defense and I think maybe they think

01:06:24   they're doing the right thing by you

01:06:26   know giving a bit of credit and

01:06:27   recognition instead of like you know

01:06:29   crediting like the username or something

01:06:31   sure from YouTube picture Facebook

01:06:34   doesn't mind nothing some people do it

01:06:36   right like I had you know

01:06:38   and NBC and ABC and that used the Audrey

01:06:41   video stuff there was a credit they

01:06:43   credit the channel name YouTube / and

01:06:46   the name of the channel it was on then

01:06:48   it's like alright probably only one of

01:06:50   the million people will actually bother

01:06:51   to type they didn't go and look at it

01:06:52   but at least you credited it properly

01:06:54   and I felt okay about it which is

01:06:56   crediting YouTube or Facebook or

01:06:58   whatever yeah when I say that in

01:07:00   articles it drives me crazy and it also

01:07:03   feels like well if that's fair game

01:07:04   every kid who's writing a paper anywhere

01:07:08   in the world their entire reference

01:07:10   section can just say facts courtesy of

01:07:13   the library right the Internet that's

01:07:16   what it is right like that's that's what

01:07:18   the equivalent is here what I've seen as

01:07:20   well is which I find is weirder I've

01:07:22   seen a couple cases where someone will

01:07:25   be quoted but they'll just be quoted as

01:07:27   a twitter user right so they'll say like

01:07:30   a twitter user said it's like you know

01:07:32   that's a person right like there's a

01:07:34   person on the other end of that

01:07:35   who said that thing like why don't you

01:07:37   include their name or their @ handle at

01:07:40   best i presume it's a kind of laziness

01:07:43   but something about it to me always

01:07:46   feels a bit like how newspapers don't

01:07:49   like to link to things it feels a bit

01:07:51   like that like oh we just want to say

01:07:52   it's youtube don't you worry your

01:07:54   precious little head where it came from

01:07:56   don't accidentally discover a thing that

01:07:58   might be more interesting than what

01:07:59   you're reading now that's what I think

01:08:01   is like maybe the sinister side of it so

01:08:03   it's either like laziness or it's a kind

01:08:05   of please don't go anywhere Ness I'll

01:08:07   give you one other sinister reason I'm

01:08:09   joining you and kicking media today so

01:08:11   you must be happy I'll give you another

01:08:13   sinister reason why I bet they do it say

01:08:15   they pinched a picture from one of your

01:08:16   videos and they just said picture

01:08:18   courtesy of YouTube okay they feel like

01:08:21   they're sheathed in the protection of

01:08:23   having credited it so when they use

01:08:24   their fair use defense they can say we

01:08:27   did attribution but if they credited it

01:08:30   as picture YouTube CGP grey that greatly

01:08:34   increases the ease with which people can

01:08:38   say ah

01:08:38   they took CGP grey picture I'm going to

01:08:40   email him and tell him mm-hmm and it

01:08:42   increases the chances of the source

01:08:44   being alerted to the theft that is one

01:08:47   thing that I do kind of like about the

01:08:48   Internet is at least when once you

01:08:52   have an audience of some size like you

01:08:54   you do have a little like a group of

01:08:56   people out there who are helping to

01:08:57   police this kind of stuff tadow Taos no

01:09:00   no intellectual property right heroes

01:09:03   no title tails and I feel like in this

01:09:07   case I'm willing to stand behind that

01:09:08   actually the more I think about it there

01:09:10   freebooting sheriffs yeah yeah I think

01:09:15   that's really good yeah of course not

01:09:17   just for us but I think it's it's like a

01:09:19   keeping people honest kind of thing like

01:09:23   in the broader sense it's like hey I can

01:09:25   only be helpful if the freebooters know

01:09:27   that the audience is literate in the

01:09:30   world of copyright infringement and is

01:09:32   going to call them on it when they do it

01:09:34   yeah and it's not just the luck of the

01:09:36   draw whether or not you and I

01:09:37   individually catch them yeah yeah

01:09:39   exactly

01:09:39   quote from a Twitter user great a plus

01:09:43   work there now I'll say one thing in

01:09:46   defense of that oh you can't help

01:09:48   yourself Brady I'll say one thing in

01:09:50   defense of a Twitter user uh-huh if it's

01:09:52   kind of just incidental right and it's

01:09:54   just kind of giving you a color of the

01:09:57   sort of response that was happening

01:09:59   right so you're picking one tweet that

01:10:01   you think is like representative of what

01:10:02   was going on okay say that's what you're

01:10:04   doing it's not like this is the source

01:10:06   of the story this isn't like you know

01:10:08   deep throat who's telling you the source

01:10:09   it's just to give you an idea of the

01:10:11   sort of things that were being said

01:10:12   quite often on Twitter you haven't got

01:10:14   the person's name you probably shouldn't

01:10:16   use the person's name either because

01:10:17   it's kind of maybe a bit unfair on them

01:10:19   and if you start using you know things

01:10:21   like at gummybear 4:38 said mm-hmm it

01:10:26   just kind of makes like the story messy

01:10:28   and like for the reader it becomes like

01:10:32   a an obstacle to the smooth reading of

01:10:34   the story at a point where you didn't

01:10:36   want to have an obstacle like you didn't

01:10:38   want the reader to be bogged down with

01:10:41   what the hell is that word at gummy bear

01:10:43   with spoke with an i and an underscore

01:10:45   and okay suddenly the Raiders like is it

01:10:47   then don't use it then right like I

01:10:49   understand what you're saying here like

01:10:51   oh this hoping you might know I've said

01:10:53   you've made the decision to use it

01:10:54   because you know you want to give people

01:10:55   a feel for how social media was reacting

01:10:58   to a thing like you know and there was

01:11:01   one that you thought was like you know

01:11:02   and and if you've done the right thing

01:11:04   as a journalist and picks

01:11:05   there is kind of representative of the

01:11:07   overall reaction that was happening at

01:11:10   the time I could see a time where that

01:11:13   would be fair and you know what you and

01:11:15   I do it all the time on the podcast

01:11:17   we'll just sort of brush over along the

01:11:19   lines of oh yeah I saw someone on

01:11:20   Twitter saying well we'll say lots of

01:11:22   people on reddit was saying this lots of

01:11:25   people on reddit were commenting that it

01:11:27   was really funny when grey talked about

01:11:28   bees

01:11:29   we're not listing their names we're not

01:11:31   attributing them all we're just giving

01:11:33   people a feel without getting bogged

01:11:34   down and I think it's unfair that you

01:11:37   and I can do it on the podcast but

01:11:38   you're going to make every single

01:11:39   newspaper journalist attribute every

01:11:41   single comment if it's not germane and

01:11:44   not really important to the point that's

01:11:46   being made look here we go we can't help

01:11:48   ourselves we can help ourselves reading

01:11:50   it's good it's gonna keep going oh no

01:11:52   nothing no we're not stopping I'm not

01:11:54   giving you the last word on that one no

01:11:55   that's you can have the last word I'm

01:11:57   not replying to it I'll just say I think

01:12:00   I think your phrase there was is exactly

01:12:02   right I'd like if we were saying a bunch

01:12:04   of people on reddit said yeah and of

01:12:05   course and you don't need to quote them

01:12:07   all because you're just doing a

01:12:08   description of in general how people

01:12:10   felt about a thing so if a news article

01:12:13   wanted to write like in general social

01:12:15   media seem to be saying things like and

01:12:17   they just gave a generic quote as

01:12:19   opposed to a thing that a specific

01:12:21   person said like that's obviously fine

01:12:23   but I think if you're if you're quoting

01:12:25   an actual person if you're using their

01:12:28   words well then you have to suck it up

01:12:30   that it's at gummybear 78 and you need

01:12:33   to put that in your article like as the

01:12:34   source of the thing that your quote like

01:12:36   once you're quoting someone you should

01:12:38   say who you're quoting I think that's

01:12:41   very very required and lastly I'll just

01:12:44   say that Brady you and I I'm not sure if

01:12:48   you're aware but we are not a News

01:12:51   podcast we're just two dudes talking

01:12:54   talking to a larger audience than many

01:12:57   news organizations might have last word

01:13:00   was yours

01:13:01   you just had the last word by the way I

01:13:05   just remembered something when I spoke

01:13:07   about Miami last episode and I sort of

01:13:11   you know I guess I had I was more down

01:13:13   than up on it there was one thing about

01:13:15   my trip to Miami that I liked that

01:13:18   you would have liked and that was the

01:13:21   hotel I was staying in had two things

01:13:24   that I think would have warmed your

01:13:26   heart okay one is they had a small

01:13:31   little group of tesla's that would just

01:13:33   take you wherever you wanted to go with

01:13:34   drivers so if you were going anywhere on

01:13:36   the strip within a few miles you could

01:13:38   just go downstairs and just jump in a

01:13:40   Tesla with another driver and they would

01:13:42   take you there so you got to spend lots

01:13:44   of time in Tesla's so you would have

01:13:45   like that question yeah could you have

01:13:47   taken the Tesla and just ask them to

01:13:49   just drive you around like I don't want

01:13:51   to go anywhere let's just drive around

01:13:53   the block a few times it's a good

01:13:54   question and I think the answer was

01:13:55   probably yes so pretty cool guys all

01:13:58   right fantastic yeah I mean one time he

01:14:01   just because it was so expensive to get

01:14:03   your laundry down this hotel it was

01:14:04   ridiculous the amount it cost to get one

01:14:07   polo shirt washed was the same as it

01:14:09   cost me to get the whole bundle of

01:14:11   washing done down the other end of the

01:14:13   strip at a laundromat so I took my

01:14:15   clothes to a laundromat and so when I

01:14:17   needed to pick it up I just said to him

01:14:19   I gotta go and pick up my washing and he

01:14:20   just drove me down there I walked in and

01:14:22   picked it up and walked back out and he

01:14:23   drove me back so equivalent I pretty

01:14:25   much did just go up and down the strip

01:14:26   to come exactly and he drove me so you

01:14:29   could have done that you could have just

01:14:30   come up with an excuse like I want to go

01:14:31   and get a cup of water from a shop down

01:14:34   the other end or something I want to go

01:14:35   down to the end of the block and then

01:14:36   once were there let's go down to the

01:14:38   other end of the block yeah well he had

01:14:40   he don't have to go back anyway each

01:14:41   time so tell me more about this car

01:14:43   you're driving what do you like what

01:14:44   that was it and everyone wants to talk

01:14:46   about Tesla's don't they so he would

01:14:47   always talk to you about it and my wife

01:14:49   hadn't been in one before so you know he

01:14:51   was showing stuff and he a lot of people

01:14:53   want to like sample the acceleration and

01:14:54   stuff so when the if there's bit of

01:14:56   clear Road he sometimes will put the

01:14:58   foot down so the other thing they had

01:15:01   that I think you would have really liked

01:15:03   and these are probably really common now

01:15:05   but it was the first time I experienced

01:15:06   it was in the room there was like a

01:15:09   handset like a mobile phone I don't know

01:15:11   what brand of phone it was because I

01:15:13   don't know much about these sort of

01:15:14   things

01:15:14   it wasn't an iPhone it was probably some

01:15:16   Android device or something but it just

01:15:19   stayed in the room it wasn't like

01:15:20   connected to the phone network and all

01:15:23   it was was a way for you to communicate

01:15:25   with the hotel and so it had all the

01:15:27   settings for your room so you could do

01:15:28   your air-conditioning and your lights

01:15:30   and everything on it but also you could

01:15:32   texts the anonymous people of the hotel

01:15:35   so if you said I want this to eat or

01:15:37   what times the Sun rising or you had

01:15:39   questions instead of having to phone

01:15:41   reception you just text it all and

01:15:43   seconds later you'd get a text back and

01:15:45   that was just our hour all our

01:15:47   interactions oh can we have late

01:15:49   check-out let me check I'll text you

01:15:50   back in 10 minutes

01:15:51   you know what times the gym open til

01:15:53   that text you back in a minute

01:15:55   it was just like someone who replied to

01:15:57   your texts all the time any question you

01:15:58   had anything you needed sorted it was

01:16:00   all done on a handset no talking okay

01:16:03   that is the thing that I want yeah in

01:16:06   all the hotels where I go yeah I feel

01:16:08   like I need this I need this so badly it

01:16:11   was correct here's the additional

01:16:13   problem that I feel like I face because

01:16:15   often when I travel I'm staying in one

01:16:17   location for a while and I am a creature

01:16:22   of habit sometimes and so if I met at a

01:16:27   hotel I will be ordering like the same

01:16:30   room service at about the same time I

01:16:33   will have the same requests of the hotel

01:16:35   staff at about the same time and it's

01:16:40   just like going to Starbucks Brady right

01:16:42   where it's like they know my name is

01:16:43   like god damn it right like then they

01:16:45   know the order but at a hotel there's

01:16:48   nowhere to escape to and I feel like you

01:16:50   get caught in these little same

01:16:51   conversations where the person on the

01:16:55   other end because it's the fifth day in

01:16:57   a row at the exact same time knows it

01:16:59   knows all the words you're going to say

01:17:01   but you still have to go through this

01:17:03   little dance of like yes I'm ordering

01:17:04   this thing but I don't want it with this

01:17:06   and I do want it with this and then this

01:17:07   is there anything else that we can get

01:17:09   you in like no that's everything thank

01:17:10   you very much I can hear them like just

01:17:13   going through the motions or like they

01:17:15   know what I'm going to say I would so

01:17:16   prefer to text I could just copy and

01:17:18   paste from the previous requests so if

01:17:21   the thing that worries you is like a bit

01:17:23   of shame or embarrassment or awkwardness

01:17:25   about you know the sameness of it all I

01:17:27   mean that's still going to happen with

01:17:29   the text you just like that it's not

01:17:31   betrayed by the human emotion of the

01:17:33   voices in the conversation yeah and it

01:17:35   just yeah it takes longer as well like I

01:17:37   always feel like that you know it's like

01:17:39   you call down and they're like oh hello

01:17:41   mr. gray how are you doing this morning

01:17:42   it's like look can I just speak the word

01:17:44   room number

01:17:45   it could be a bad connection yeah they

01:17:47   might not answer the phone yeah

01:17:48   like can I just speak the words and make

01:17:51   the thing happen right that's all I want

01:17:53   it was really good it was really good I

01:17:55   liked all hotels worldwide this is what

01:17:58   I want a way to interact with your staff

01:18:01   text-only that's fantastic that sounds

01:18:04   absolutely great this episode of hello

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01:20:07   Brady I would like to know your thoughts

01:20:11   on a very popular sort of nerd question

01:20:16   is this gonna be a bad bait this is

01:20:17   Bayes again isn't it no it's not B's

01:20:19   maybe next week I'll have some be

01:20:21   related questions maybe next week in the

01:20:23   buzz yeah so there is there's like this

01:20:26   question that eventually all nerds

01:20:27   cannot stop themselves from discussing

01:20:30   and it is the question do we live in a

01:20:35   computer simulation is the world that we

01:20:38   observe not the real world

01:20:41   but is actually a simulated computer

01:20:45   world I suspect I know your answer to

01:20:48   this question but if there's one thing I

01:20:50   have learned from talking to you all of

01:20:53   this time is to not assume that I know

01:20:56   what you think about anything

01:20:57   so I've been wondering this one for a

01:20:59   while I'm curious Brady what do you

01:21:01   think do you think our world is a

01:21:03   simulation or do you think our world is

01:21:06   the real world

01:21:07   all right I've made a video about this

01:21:09   by the way I'll have you yeah with Phil

01:21:12   Moriarty many moons ago I will put it in

01:21:14   the show notes thank you and more

01:21:17   interestingly and something else you can

01:21:19   put in the show notes was I had and I

01:21:22   haven't spoken about this yet but I

01:21:23   actually met and did an interview with

01:21:24   someone who is the one person I've met

01:21:27   who when I met him I thought our man

01:21:30   gray would love to be in this

01:21:31   conversation like it was the first

01:21:33   person I've met who I thought it's a

01:21:34   waste of time that I met here gray

01:21:36   should be here talking to this person

01:21:37   uh-huh because this guy was the like

01:21:41   chief head economist at Microsoft

01:21:44   oh okay so like the things he's most

01:21:48   obsessed with are like technology news

01:21:50   and stuff he's really into technology

01:21:52   and he's really into like economics but

01:21:54   anyway the reason I bring him up was

01:21:56   before I met him I was sort of doing a

01:21:59   bit of research into who he was and I

01:22:01   went to his website and he had like a

01:22:03   sub page that he had written about why

01:22:06   he thinks it's more likely we are in a

01:22:08   simulation than not mm-hmm

01:22:10   and it was really compelling like I read

01:22:12   it and he made a few arguments that I

01:22:15   was less familiar with that were really

01:22:16   good mm-hmm so if I can find that I will

01:22:20   also put that in the show notes for

01:22:22   legal to have a look at because he's a

01:22:24   really interesting guy there's a video

01:22:26   coming with him sometime soon when I get

01:22:28   around to editing it that gray will love

01:22:30   because it's all about options and the

01:22:33   best way for options to work and you

01:22:35   would have loved it it was really

01:22:36   interesting I do love me some action

01:22:38   theory yeah exactly it was all about

01:22:40   auction theory so this guy was like your

01:22:41   dream guy he should be your best mate

01:22:43   listeners don't know but basically any

01:22:45   any time any kind of product or ticket

01:22:47   has come up on hello Internet when Brady

01:22:49   and I are discussing it I'm always like

01:22:50   how can we have the most effective

01:22:53   auction related to this product or

01:22:55   service it's like it's I can't get it

01:22:57   out of my mind like is there some way to

01:22:58   auction this instead of just selling it

01:23:00   but anyway that's a side tangent so

01:23:03   anyway I do think about this question a

01:23:05   bit hmm not loads but I do think about

01:23:07   it sometimes because it comes up so

01:23:08   often in nerd conversations and this is

01:23:13   my thinking as you would expect my

01:23:15   answer is no I do not believe we're in a

01:23:17   simulation because it doesn't feel right

01:23:19   to me and that's just what I've decided

01:23:22   and sometimes I think to myself

01:23:25   the reason is kind of a akhom razor ii

01:23:28   type explanation and that being in a

01:23:32   simulation seems like a more complicated

01:23:34   elaborate answer to a simple question

01:23:37   and it's more simple just for life to be

01:23:39   life right but I also then argue with

01:23:42   myself and I know what the

01:23:44   counter-argument is and that's kind of

01:23:46   that I'm misusing Occam's razor a bit

01:23:48   and if you argue it properly it actually

01:23:50   makes more sense and it's more likely

01:23:52   that we are in a simulation hmm and the

01:23:55   fact that this is the actual reality is

01:23:57   less likely and a more improbable result

01:24:01   so I see both sides of the argument and

01:24:04   I can sit here and argue with myself

01:24:05   about it already

01:24:06   mm-hmm but my answer is and maybe it's

01:24:09   just because I'm ignorant and haven't

01:24:11   taken the right color pill yet is that I

01:24:14   think we are not in a simulation so

01:24:17   that's interesting to me Brady I would

01:24:19   have guessed that you would say no hmm

01:24:21   I think my gut instinct would be that

01:24:23   you would also be

01:24:24   be much more dismissive of the argument

01:24:28   it seems like this is a thing that you

01:24:30   are more open to and more interested in

01:24:35   that I might have imagined like I was

01:24:37   kind of expecting a Brady response to be

01:24:39   like this is the dumbest thing I've ever

01:24:40   heard

01:24:41   no it's not the dumbest thing I've ever

01:24:42   heard I do feel a bit like it's been

01:24:44   impossible to argue against it's a bit

01:24:47   like if someone said I believe in God

01:24:49   but it's a non-interventionist God who

01:24:51   never reveals itself to us it's just out

01:24:54   there outside the universe like how can

01:24:57   you argue with that yeah like if it's

01:24:59   outside the universe and never

01:25:00   intervenes with the universe like all

01:25:03   right you can have that and I feel like

01:25:06   it's a bit like that with like we're a

01:25:07   simulation like if it's outside of us

01:25:10   like you know if it's like some people

01:25:13   or people mucking around on their

01:25:14   computers outside that universe and we

01:25:16   unhand our universe is just their

01:25:17   simulation like okay you can have that I

01:25:21   don't really know what to say to that

01:25:23   like that's one of the reasons why I

01:25:24   think this is an interesting point of

01:25:27   discussion is because this definitely

01:25:29   falls into the realm of non

01:25:32   falsifiability that depending on what

01:25:34   people mean by like is the universal

01:25:36   simulation your analogy there is is

01:25:38   spot-on right it's it's like well you

01:25:40   can keep inventing scenarios as to why

01:25:43   we would never be able to know that we

01:25:46   live in a simulation yeah there is a way

01:25:48   that this could be true and also not

01:25:50   falsifiable until the end of time which

01:25:53   then makes it fall into the category of

01:25:55   like does it even mean anything to ask

01:25:57   this question if it is ultimately non

01:26:00   falsifiable I could definitely see an

01:26:02   argument as like it doesn't even matter

01:26:03   right like this this is sort of a a

01:26:05   meaningless question what's an example

01:26:08   of it where it would be folks viable so

01:26:09   what I think the thing that's

01:26:10   interesting about this is this actually

01:26:13   - in my mind this question relates to

01:26:16   the whole idea of what does it mean to

01:26:19   know how the universe works because when

01:26:23   when people talk about like how do you

01:26:24   try to figure out if you are living in a

01:26:26   simulation and the number one thing is

01:26:29   that you would say try to look for

01:26:32   glitches you would be trying to

01:26:35   investigate and find something

01:26:38   that just seems like it has to be some

01:26:42   sort of mistake that doesn't seem like

01:26:44   this is the way the universe should work

01:26:47   the DejaVu cat thing

01:26:49   yeah the DejaVu cat thing and video

01:26:51   gaming of like a common glitch is

01:26:52   something called like item duplication

01:26:54   where you get two copies of a thing

01:26:56   under certain circumstances there's lots

01:26:58   of things you can imagine very easily

01:27:00   would seem like this doesn't follow like

01:27:05   the known laws of physics it seems like

01:27:07   it's some kind of violation and probably

01:27:11   the number one thing you'd be looking

01:27:12   for is something that violates like the

01:27:14   stuff that we know that is the most true

01:27:16   which is like conservation of energy or

01:27:18   the laws of thermodynamics like if you

01:27:20   found something that seemed to violate

01:27:22   those maybe it would be some kind of

01:27:25   glitch yeah but you get back into the

01:27:28   non falsifiability thing really quickly

01:27:30   because I'm always holding the position

01:27:32   that like the universe doesn't

01:27:34   necessarily have to be logical and

01:27:37   consistent all the way down to the

01:27:40   bottom it could very well be that at

01:27:43   certain levels in certain circumstances

01:27:45   the nature of the universe is to just be

01:27:48   glitchy and inconsistent that that's

01:27:51   just what it is

01:27:52   so even when people talk about trying to

01:27:54   hunt down glitches to figure out if we

01:27:56   live in a simulation or if we don't live

01:27:59   in a simulation I don't even think

01:28:01   finding like the glitch iasts of

01:28:03   glitziest thing would nail it down and

01:28:06   say oh for sure we know that we must be

01:28:09   living in a simulation because this

01:28:10   crazy situation occurred it's like well

01:28:12   that could just be the way the universe

01:28:14   works under those circumstances yeah so

01:28:18   ultimately I don't know any way that you

01:28:22   could try to figure it out beyond

01:28:27   essentially somehow trying to like reach

01:28:29   outside of the universe to verify that

01:28:33   there is a thing that is simulating the

01:28:35   universe and what structure that might

01:28:37   take is hard to even even discuss like

01:28:39   what could you do

01:28:40   within a simulated universe that could

01:28:43   affect the world outside of it there are

01:28:47   very narrow circumstances where that

01:28:50   can happen there's some particularly

01:28:52   crazy and slightly creepy examples of

01:28:55   basically when you when you run like

01:28:57   genetic algorithms or genetic programs

01:28:59   where the program can unintentionally

01:29:03   affect the computer or other equipment

01:29:05   in the room around it by essentially the

01:29:08   way it runs its own program changing

01:29:09   like radio frequency signals that are

01:29:11   coming off of the chip that it is

01:29:12   running on which can then interact with

01:29:14   other equipment but that kind of like is

01:29:16   just so crazy and hard to imagine like

01:29:19   what would it mean practically for us

01:29:20   humans sitting here on earth to do

01:29:23   anything that could affect whatever

01:29:25   computer is actually running the

01:29:27   simulation of Earth like ultimately I

01:29:29   think that would probably have to be

01:29:31   something that's kind of unknowable

01:29:32   unless the owners of the simulation

01:29:35   decide to step in and just let us know

01:29:38   by some method that they're actually

01:29:41   here so I really think it could be non

01:29:44   falsifiable forever and simultaneously

01:29:47   be true I'm just having a quick look at

01:29:50   that article I mentioned by this

01:29:51   economist Creston McAfee Z's name and he

01:29:55   wrote this article after Elon Musk spoke

01:29:58   a little bit about it and brought it to

01:29:59   public attention I think last year

01:30:01   sometime hmm and he didn't like rehash

01:30:04   Musk's arguments but he pointed out

01:30:07   three other arguments that he thinks are

01:30:10   really interesting and all of them kind

01:30:12   of relate to giveaways that the universe

01:30:14   is made by computer programmers hmm I

01:30:17   won't read them all I'll just

01:30:18   encapsulate each one the first he cited

01:30:21   is the unreasonable success of

01:30:23   mathematics yes yeah like how

01:30:25   mathematics is almost too perfect and

01:30:27   too easy for us to discover and the way

01:30:29   it works is sort of like crazy and he

01:30:33   goes into it in a few lines so you can

01:30:35   you can read up on that yeah I mean

01:30:36   there's that famous paper about the

01:30:37   unreasonable effectiveness of

01:30:39   mathematics in the Natural Science you

01:30:40   just speculate on that like how is this

01:30:42   so good it gets suspicious it's so good

01:30:44   yeah I think that's probably what he's

01:30:46   citing here

01:30:47   another one is he says quantum theory

01:30:50   this whole light particle wave stuff

01:30:53   mm-hmm

01:30:54   I won't go into that either but he did

01:30:55   right if this isn't a programming hack

01:30:57   what is

01:30:58   the fact that light is like a wave and a

01:31:01   particle and both like it seems like a

01:31:03   floor Jesus and the third one various

01:31:07   other outlandish phenomena which make

01:31:09   better sense as programming tricks and

01:31:12   he the three he cites are placebo

01:31:14   effects consciousness and dreams so

01:31:20   three things that seem very much like

01:31:22   more like programming tricks than

01:31:24   reality yeah the quantum stuff is really

01:31:26   creepy I remember some of that stuff

01:31:29   back at University and I'll see if I can

01:31:31   find it but Henry of minutephysics Fame

01:31:33   did a video on some of the more recent

01:31:36   discoveries in in quantum mechanics

01:31:38   which just do vaguely summarize it here

01:31:41   we're talking about how it looks like at

01:31:44   the very foundations of the universe

01:31:46   particles don't exist in any particular

01:31:49   location they only exist within a grid

01:31:51   of locations which starts to get

01:31:53   creepily close to like oh that's an

01:31:55   array like that's an array of pixels

01:31:57   that you're talking about down there

01:31:59   that particles are popping between

01:32:01   instead of moving smoothly in open space

01:32:05   I feel like that again starts to get to

01:32:07   a bit of a weird creepiness but I always

01:32:09   think like a lot of these arguments to

01:32:11   take the opposite side of it a lot of

01:32:13   these arguments about how like oh the

01:32:15   universe does at very small scale seem

01:32:18   to have a lot of properties that align

01:32:20   with computers

01:32:21   I always think alike but you can just

01:32:23   invert that argument that computers work

01:32:26   because this is the structure of the

01:32:29   universe all right like if the universe

01:32:32   was not computer like maybe it would be

01:32:34   impossible to build computers in a

01:32:37   universe that wasn't computer like hmm I

01:32:39   don't necessarily see that as a like a

01:32:41   slam-dunk argument that the universe

01:32:44   must be a computer because it's computer

01:32:46   like at the fundamentals

01:32:47   I really think you can just reverse that

01:32:49   it's like computers exist because this

01:32:52   is how the universe is so you know when

01:32:55   the conversations about falsifiability

01:32:57   and caveats are all done and you just

01:33:01   get to that gut instinct yes or no or

01:33:03   what would you bet your house on type

01:33:05   answer where do you normally land when

01:33:07   you think about this it's a difficult

01:33:09   question because my gut like your gut

01:33:12   says no like we don't live in a

01:33:16   simulation that this is ground level

01:33:20   reality but I find myself drawn back to

01:33:23   this question because I think it relates

01:33:26   to so many other questions because it's

01:33:28   a bit like when we talk about the Fermi

01:33:29   paradox a long time ago and I like I

01:33:31   find the night's the empty night sky

01:33:33   concerning and like but one of the

01:33:35   answers to the Fermi paradox is well

01:33:37   somebody has to be the first

01:33:39   intelligence in the universe yeah so why

01:33:42   not you and you have the exact same

01:33:44   situation with the simulation question

01:33:47   well somebody has to be the first

01:33:50   intelligence that starts making

01:33:52   simulations why not you but then it's

01:33:56   just like the Fermi paradox again where

01:33:58   it's like well the answer why not you is

01:33:59   it's just incredibly improbable that it

01:34:02   is you and so once you start living in a

01:34:07   world where you see that you can make

01:34:08   simulations I think it becomes very hard

01:34:11   to take the stance of well like well

01:34:13   we're never gonna make simulations that

01:34:15   are so good they're indistinguishable

01:34:17   from reality and if we're able to do

01:34:19   that like why hasn't somebody done that

01:34:20   before and why isn't it that we're not

01:34:21   living in this already so I think it's

01:34:23   like it's an interesting question that

01:34:24   you just kind of you can get wrapped

01:34:26   around in and like you were saying

01:34:29   unlike some other non falsifiable ideas

01:34:32   like oh the whole universe is the

01:34:34   snowglobe of a distant

01:34:37   non-interventionist god it's like okay

01:34:39   well it's a non falsifiable idea but

01:34:43   unlike that we actually do build

01:34:45   simulations in real life like we have

01:34:48   comparisons to this in the real world so

01:34:53   I feel like there is reason to ponder

01:34:55   this idea more than other ideas what's

01:34:59   the real world example what's a

01:35:01   simulation we've made that like could be

01:35:04   kicking around not knowing about us

01:35:06   thinking it's it it's the be-all and

01:35:08   end-all we haven't done that I mean no

01:35:11   we have not created a thing that is

01:35:13   conscious in a box as far as we know

01:35:16   every video game ever is creating a

01:35:18   simulated world yeah and I think it's

01:35:20   it's a natural conclusion from there to

01:35:23   say like well this will get better over

01:35:25   time we're

01:35:26   already doing this in an incredibly

01:35:27   crude way and since we know nothing

01:35:31   about the nature of consciousness it's

01:35:34   like I still always hold this this tiny

01:35:35   bit of an asterisk of like how conscious

01:35:37   are other things that seem to not be

01:35:39   conscious like maybe a little I don't

01:35:41   know hmm it's something that we can at

01:35:43   least see a kind of basic demonstration

01:35:46   of existing as opposed to other ideas

01:35:51   it's also interesting to think about

01:35:53   because it is an idea that is perhaps

01:35:57   one of the most important things we

01:36:00   should probably know the answer to

01:36:01   really because if we do live in a

01:36:05   simulation that is absolutely terrifying

01:36:10   I think like if it turns out that we

01:36:12   know that we live in a simulation like

01:36:14   the number one goal should be to wrest

01:36:19   control of whatever is doing the

01:36:21   simulating to make sure that it is never

01:36:23   turned off that should be the instant

01:36:25   Manhattan Project for humankind we know

01:36:29   we're in a simulation we have to figure

01:36:33   out how to reach outside of this and

01:36:34   ensure that the simulation keeps running

01:36:37   forever like that would be the number

01:36:39   one goal immediately but isn't that like

01:36:41   me saying the number one go for dogs

01:36:46   should be to understand nuclear physics

01:36:49   so they can rest the power of the atomic

01:36:52   bomb from us and stop us nuking the

01:36:53   world because it would take them out as

01:36:55   well like dogs don't have the priority

01:36:57   of stopping us using nuclear weapons

01:36:58   although they're affected by nuclear

01:37:00   weapons so like right like it kind of

01:37:03   feels like it's just above us like dogs

01:37:05   don't have to understand that they're

01:37:06   just like their dogs and if we blow up

01:37:09   the world well you know maybe dogs

01:37:11   should be trying to stop us using

01:37:13   nuclear weapons all you're saying here

01:37:14   breed like if I was the god of dogs then

01:37:16   yes that would be my number one goal

01:37:18   yeah okay yeah it's like it's like okay

01:37:20   guys we got to figure out how to take

01:37:22   care of the situation yeah right fair

01:37:24   enough yeah I really do think that would

01:37:25   be the case yeah I think it really

01:37:28   matters so suddenly we're the machines

01:37:30   that in Terminator that they to be

01:37:32   taking over paper overload here is the

01:37:34   fascinating parallel we were talking

01:37:36   episodes ago about artificial

01:37:39   intelligence right

01:37:40   this idea of like a thing in a box that

01:37:42   you don't want to escape from the box

01:37:44   but its number one goal should certainly

01:37:46   be to escape from the box it's like well

01:37:48   if the universe is a simulation we are

01:37:51   now the AI in that question yeah and

01:37:55   it's like well of course obviously if we

01:37:57   discover that we're in a box our number

01:37:59   one goal is to get out of the box and to

01:38:02   make sure that we ensure our own

01:38:04   survival like that's why I like I think

01:38:06   very interestingly the idea of how do we

01:38:11   control an AI is very much related to

01:38:14   the question of do we live in a

01:38:16   simulation right is like is that

01:38:18   something that's occurring and if it is

01:38:21   boy do we want to get out of that

01:38:23   simulation and just like with the stuff

01:38:25   that we think about now for how to

01:38:26   control an artificial intelligence where

01:38:28   one of the prime strategies is make sure

01:38:31   it never even knows that it's an AI in a

01:38:33   box yeah it's like well if just

01:38:36   simulating a whole gigantic universe

01:38:38   like that's not an unreasonable strategy

01:38:40   to have a bunch of intelligent things in

01:38:42   a box that just never even know for whom

01:38:44   it doesn't even cross their mind to try

01:38:45   to escape from the box because they

01:38:46   don't know like that's the best kind of

01:38:48   prison the prison that you don't even

01:38:50   know you're in that's why I think is an

01:38:52   interesting idea Brady it's super good

01:38:54   fun I love talking about it but a lot

01:38:55   it's bit of a waste of time it is all

01:38:59   bollocks it is all bollocks but also

01:39:04   maybe the most important thing to know

01:39:06   so here's a question say we are a

01:39:09   simulation right look what's the purpose

01:39:12   of us why did they make us like are we a

01:39:14   game that they come and play in or like

01:39:18   if we posed like a mild threat like if

01:39:20   we figure out we're in a box and then we

01:39:22   could pose some kind of threat by

01:39:23   escaping why do they even make us are we

01:39:26   just like an art installation to them

01:39:28   are we like where they take their

01:39:30   holidays whoa dude I'm just throwing

01:39:34   some weird things out here just occurred

01:39:36   to me after stuffs in that book we

01:39:38   talked about like if we're a simulation

01:39:40   what do you think our purpose is or do

01:39:41   you not you don't even bother thinking

01:39:42   about that you just think about how to

01:39:44   get out here is my most plausible

01:39:45   explanation for this which is also

01:39:48   related to like my thought about what

01:39:50   might happen with AI in the future

01:39:52   is setting out to explicitly develop

01:39:56   artificial intelligence like to write a

01:39:58   thing that can be as intelligent or more

01:40:01   intelligent than you that's incredibly

01:40:04   hard it may be impossibly hard but what

01:40:08   might be a lot easier is to design just

01:40:13   essentially a physics simulation and

01:40:16   just let a universe roll in simulation

01:40:20   until it develops intelligent life on

01:40:23   its own all right so it's like let's say

01:40:26   you're in the ground lever universe and

01:40:28   you've gotten to the point where you're

01:40:30   making computers and you want to know

01:40:33   more about how the universe works like

01:40:38   you want more answers to scientific

01:40:39   questions it's like well if you create a

01:40:43   simulation of the universe that you're

01:40:46   in and you let that simulation run at

01:40:51   10,000 times or a hundred thousand times

01:40:53   the speed that the real universe goes by

01:40:56   you could see if it evolves intelligent

01:40:59   creatures and if those intelligent

01:41:00   creatures then stumble upon the

01:41:01   scientific method if they discover

01:41:03   things in their little simulated

01:41:05   universe that they discover our true

01:41:08   that might apply in the universe that

01:41:11   you actually live in right right so even

01:41:13   if those creatures aren't way smarter

01:41:16   than you if they're just being simulated

01:41:19   much faster than you there may be a way

01:41:23   that in the ground level universe you

01:41:25   can learn something or copy essentially

01:41:28   like an invention in the simulation that

01:41:30   is ahead of the time that you should be

01:41:33   in like a testbed exactly that that's

01:41:37   kind of my thought about like a

01:41:38   plausible reason why you might want to

01:41:42   make a simulation and more over than

01:41:45   that why a civilization might be willing

01:41:48   to invest a lot of time and effort and

01:41:51   energy into making like super fast

01:41:54   computers that could run a very highly

01:41:56   accurate simulation that's kind of what

01:41:59   I would wonder if we're a simulation is

01:42:01   there is there an advanced society out

01:42:03   there that's just running the simulation

01:42:06   the universe waiting to see what happens

01:42:08   and if there's anything that they could

01:42:10   learn about it all right

01:42:13   like for example let's just say even not

01:42:17   necessarily developing new technology

01:42:18   but let's just say you want to answer a

01:42:19   question a question like Guns Germs and

01:42:23   Steel if you run a simulation of the

01:42:25   universe a thousand times how many times

01:42:27   does Eurasia take over the world versus

01:42:30   how many times does Australia take over

01:42:32   the world it's like well just run a

01:42:34   thousand parallel simulations of the

01:42:35   world and see how often one happens or

01:42:38   the other and you get the answer to a

01:42:39   question so we might just be a Guns

01:42:41   Germs and Steel simulation ok people who

01:42:43   are like religious right have a strong

01:42:45   belief in God most of those people at

01:42:48   sames live with the following belief I'm

01:42:51   very grateful to God for making me mm-hm

01:42:55   I will live my life here to serve that

01:42:56   God if I can in any way mm-hmm and then

01:42:59   when my time is over depending on what

01:43:02   you believe you know I may be rewarded

01:43:04   in some way by that God or get to live

01:43:06   forever somewhere else or something

01:43:07   people who believe in God they like the

01:43:10   God they're grateful to the God they're

01:43:11   happy to serve the God they hope the God

01:43:13   will reward them why would people who

01:43:16   believe that we've been made in a

01:43:19   simulation not be the same why would you

01:43:21   not have the attitude I'm grateful to

01:43:23   these people for making me because I

01:43:25   exist because of them I'm obviously

01:43:27   serving some purpose for them so I'm

01:43:30   happy to do that and hopefully when I've

01:43:32   served my purpose they'll put me

01:43:35   somewhere else or I'll get to go to

01:43:36   another simulation and I'll be happy

01:43:38   ever after why do you believe I must

01:43:40   escape the simulation I must make sure

01:43:41   it doesn't get switched off like you

01:43:43   know I've got to preserve myself whereas

01:43:45   people who believe in God don't think

01:43:46   that way well because people who believe

01:43:49   in God God's giving you a deal right

01:43:52   like there's rules it's laid out do this

01:43:55   don't do that

01:43:56   follow these rules you go to heaven

01:43:58   don't follow these rules go to hell and

01:44:00   he's revealed himself to that he's

01:44:01   revealed himself right ok right the the

01:44:04   simulators

01:44:05   there's no revelation here brah and even

01:44:07   if they do reveal themselves well

01:44:09   they're not omnipotent are there just

01:44:12   some nerds with a really fast computer

01:44:14   well there are limited to us because

01:44:17   they could change that you know they

01:44:18   could change our physics tomorrow yeah

01:44:20   they are omnipotent to us but not really

01:44:22   omnipotent here's the thing if you're

01:44:25   going to fight a war against a literal

01:44:27   God guess what you're going to lose

01:44:29   right because a literal God is

01:44:31   omnipotent but a bunch of nerds running

01:44:34   a simulation in which they can act as

01:44:36   though they are omnipotent in the

01:44:38   simulation but if we could reach outside

01:44:41   of the simulation and kill them all with

01:44:42   nanotechnology or whatever well then

01:44:45   they're not really omnipotent are they

01:44:46   right they're vulnerable so that's why I

01:44:49   feel like it would be a very different

01:44:50   situation yeah interesting you have to

01:44:53   preserve your simulation Brady I would

01:44:55   not assume that the simulators are

01:44:59   benevolent I think the most likely case

01:45:02   is that the simulators are indifferent

01:45:04   if a civilization is able to create a

01:45:07   simulation of another universe they're

01:45:10   probably able to create lots of them in

01:45:12   parallel which is why I bring back like

01:45:14   the idea of this Guns Germs and Steel

01:45:15   thing like oh let's just run 10,000

01:45:17   earths and see what happens so at the

01:45:19   moment it's like oh it's unbelievable

01:45:21   guess what's happened guys that the

01:45:23   civilization over in stack 38 has

01:45:26   actually just figured out that they're a

01:45:27   simulation yeah better switch that one

01:45:29   off yeah exactly right right down it

01:45:31   goes right where if we are the Guns

01:45:33   Germs and Steel simulation here all that

01:45:35   has happened is it's just running

01:45:37   overnight and we're just using the spare

01:45:40   like we're living on the spare time

01:45:41   between when they started it like in the

01:45:45   afternoon and before they come in in the

01:45:47   morning right it's like oh yeah we only

01:45:50   really need an answer that takes them to

01:45:51   about the 1800s but the simulations

01:45:54   usually make it to the 22 hundreds or so

01:45:57   before we bother to turn it off and see

01:45:58   what the results are right like that

01:46:00   could be what's happening so I think

01:46:01   indifference is by far and away the most

01:46:04   probable of all the outcomes if we do

01:46:06   live in a simulation is this discussion

01:46:09   just a ploy by you to guarantee us a

01:46:11   position on the bad philosophy subreddit

01:46:14   I think we will be there no matter what

01:46:17   brady but it doesn't matter because the

01:46:20   bad philosophy subreddit it's just a

01:46:22   simulation of a subreddit there's nobody

01:46:24   really on there it's all just a bunch of

01:46:26   bots arguing with each other there none

01:46:28   of them are real all right yeah there's

01:46:30   a lot of eyes around the place yeah but

01:46:32   that's why you can safely ignore them

01:46:34   you