00:00:01 ◼ ► the incomparable number 354 May 2017 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1">TS</a>]
00:00:12 ◼ ► incomparable I'm your host Jason Snell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/12">TS</a>]
00:00:14 ◼ ► this is a special bonus episode of being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/14">TS</a>]
00:00:17 ◼ ► comparable with something that's only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/17">TS</a>]
00:00:20 ◼ ► been done once before only a single [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/20">TS</a>]
00:00:22 ◼ ► guest it's Dan Lauren he just said Wow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/22">TS</a>]
00:00:29 ◼ ► who was the other single guest well when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/29">TS</a>]
00:00:32 ◼ ► we did the Miyazaki overview episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/32">TS</a>]
00:00:37 ◼ ► because nobody else wanted to be on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/37">TS</a>]
00:00:39 ◼ ► oh yeah that's like this show nobody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/39">TS</a>]
00:00:41 ◼ ► else wanted to be on this episode either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/41">TS</a>]
00:00:43 ◼ ► we've come a long way so people asked me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/43">TS</a>]
00:00:45 ◼ ► if we were gonna cover the fact we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/45">TS</a>]
00:00:47 ◼ ► been talking you've been mentioning it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/47">TS</a>]
00:00:49 ◼ ► on various podcasts that you that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/49">TS</a>]
00:00:51 ◼ ► write write novels and even work in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/51">TS</a>]
00:00:53 ◼ ► novels and you're hoping to have a novel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/53">TS</a>]
00:00:54 ◼ ► published and the plan here is that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/54">TS</a>]
00:00:57 ◼ ► episode will go out on the day that your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/57">TS</a>]
00:00:58 ◼ ► first novel is published officially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/58">TS</a>]
00:01:00 ◼ ► although I already received my copy in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/60">TS</a>]
00:01:02 ◼ ► the mail as have many people the printed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/62">TS</a>]
00:01:04 ◼ ► Edition the e-book will come out then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/64">TS</a>]
00:01:06 ◼ ► it'll be available should be on shelves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/66">TS</a>]
00:01:09 ◼ ► should happen and everybody asked like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/69">TS</a>]
00:01:12 ◼ ► well are you gonna do an incomparable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/72">TS</a>]
00:01:14 ◼ ► episode and talk about is like well I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/74">TS</a>]
00:01:18 ◼ ► incomparable episode about the work of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/78">TS</a>]
00:01:21 ◼ ► somebody who is one of our panelists cuz [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/81">TS</a>]
00:01:24 ◼ ► there's only a couple ways that can go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/84">TS</a>]
00:01:27 ◼ ► yeah one of them could be very very bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/87">TS</a>]
00:01:33 ◼ ► boring because it'll just be nice things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/93">TS</a>]
00:01:37 ◼ ► that's also not good so I decided that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/97">TS</a>]
00:01:41 ◼ ► maybe what we would do for this episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/101">TS</a>]
00:01:43 ◼ ► this bonus episode is for you and me to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/103">TS</a>]
00:01:47 ◼ ► talk about about your your book in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/107">TS</a>]
00:01:51 ◼ ► process of writing your book and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/111">TS</a>]
00:01:53 ◼ ► story of of you putting this thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/113">TS</a>]
00:01:56 ◼ ► together because I think people will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/116">TS</a>]
00:01:58 ◼ ► interested in that people have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/118">TS</a>]
00:01:59 ◼ ► listening to this podcast for a long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/119">TS</a>]
00:02:00 ◼ ► time have been hearing your voice you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/120">TS</a>]
00:02:02 ◼ ► are are the most frequent panelist on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/122">TS</a>]
00:02:05 ◼ ► the incomparable so I know hold that up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/125">TS</a>]
00:02:12 ◼ ► episode of everything he says yes I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/132">TS</a>]
00:02:14 ◼ ► to just tell him no sometimes because he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/134">TS</a>]
00:02:16 ◼ ► will always say yes so but yeah so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/136">TS</a>]
00:02:19 ◼ ► thought if that would be a way that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/139">TS</a>]
00:02:21 ◼ ► could do it is we could talk about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/141">TS</a>]
00:02:24 ◼ ► uuhh without you know spoiling it for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/144">TS</a>]
00:02:26 ◼ ► people yeah well yeah maybe we'll do a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/146">TS</a>]
00:02:29 ◼ ► little spoil horn at the end I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/149">TS</a>]
00:02:30 ◼ ► know but and about the process because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/150">TS</a>]
00:02:32 ◼ ► think the process is interesting too as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/152">TS</a>]
00:02:34 ◼ ► I have tweeted about before I have an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/154">TS</a>]
00:02:36 ◼ ► email here from June 2010 and so almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/156">TS</a>]
00:02:41 ◼ ► seven years ago that is you sending [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/161">TS</a>]
00:02:44 ◼ ► along or offering to send along an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/164">TS</a>]
00:02:46 ◼ ► e-book of your beta stage of your novel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/166">TS</a>]
00:02:51 ◼ ► it's all the plot lines are firing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/171">TS</a>]
00:02:53 ◼ ► smoothly but ironed out most of the more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/173">TS</a>]
00:02:57 ◼ ► work-in-progress danger may abound that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/177">TS</a>]
00:03:02 ◼ ► seems the accurate description of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/182">TS</a>]
00:03:04 ◼ ► first draft of many novel so let's back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/184">TS</a>]
00:03:07 ◼ ► up from 2010 and and start with first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/187">TS</a>]
00:03:12 ◼ ► let's start with where when did you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/192">TS</a>]
00:03:14 ◼ ► write your first what you consider a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/194">TS</a>]
00:03:19 ◼ ► written and and tell tell us how long it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/199">TS</a>]
00:03:23 ◼ ► was from there to the thing that became [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/203">TS</a>]
00:03:26 ◼ ► the Caledonian gambit well the very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/206">TS</a>]
00:03:30 ◼ ► first thing I'm sort of looking back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/210">TS</a>]
00:03:32 ◼ ► see what I can actually find here in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/212">TS</a>]
00:03:35 ◼ ► terms of my early early attempts of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/215">TS</a>]
00:03:38 ◼ ► writing things but I think the very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/218">TS</a>]
00:03:39 ◼ ► first thing I finished and I've been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/219">TS</a>]
00:03:43 ◼ ► trying to write novels for years I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/223">TS</a>]
00:03:45 ◼ ► remember like I got a little better at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/225">TS</a>]
00:03:47 ◼ ► it as it went along and I wrote some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/227">TS</a>]
00:03:49 ◼ ► short stories here and there but never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/229">TS</a>]
00:03:50 ◼ ► anything that I liked really I always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/230">TS</a>]
00:03:52 ◼ ► wanted to write novels and let's write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/232">TS</a>]
00:03:53 ◼ ► long stories because that's what I liked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/233">TS</a>]
00:03:54 ◼ ► reading and I wanted the ability to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/234">TS</a>]
00:03:57 ◼ ► able to have all those things you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/237">TS</a>]
00:03:59 ◼ ► do easily in a short story like little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/239">TS</a>]
00:04:01 ◼ ► digression xand like world like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/241">TS</a>]
00:04:03 ◼ ► the you can do some of these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/243">TS</a>]
00:04:04 ◼ ► short stories but you have to be very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/244">TS</a>]
00:04:05 ◼ ► economical about it and I'm maybe not an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/245">TS</a>]
00:04:08 ◼ ► economical person when it comes to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/248">TS</a>]
00:04:09 ◼ ► writing and so creating a short story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/249">TS</a>]
00:04:12 ◼ ► which is a very finely crafted like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/252">TS</a>]
00:04:15 ◼ ► instrument in which everything is done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/255">TS</a>]
00:04:18 ◼ ► with a purpose and everything has you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/258">TS</a>]
00:04:23 ◼ ► calculated it just it wasn't a medium [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/263">TS</a>]
00:04:26 ◼ ► that ever spoke to me I admire those who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/266">TS</a>]
00:04:29 ◼ ► can who can craft it and wield it well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/269">TS</a>]
00:04:31 ◼ ► because it's not an easy thing to do but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/271">TS</a>]
00:04:34 ◼ ► I always really wanted to write longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/274">TS</a>]
00:04:38 ◼ ► over the years I've tried this in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/278">TS</a>]
00:04:40 ◼ ► number of you know different attempts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/280">TS</a>]
00:04:41 ◼ ► and I think the furthest I got for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/281">TS</a>]
00:04:43 ◼ ► long time was when I lived abroad for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/283">TS</a>]
00:04:46 ◼ ► while in my junior year of college I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/286">TS</a>]
00:04:47 ◼ ► think I got like maybe like twenty ten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/287">TS</a>]
00:04:50 ◼ ► twenty thousand words into a story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/290">TS</a>]
00:04:52 ◼ ► before realizing like I didn't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/292">TS</a>]
00:04:54 ◼ ► know what I was doing I didn't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/294">TS</a>]
00:04:56 ◼ ► where the plot was going I was just sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/296">TS</a>]
00:04:58 ◼ ► of putting one word after another and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/298">TS</a>]
00:05:00 ◼ ► and sometimes that works but in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/300">TS</a>]
00:05:01 ◼ ► case I felt like realizing all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/301">TS</a>]
00:05:03 ◼ ► pacing was off and this story wasn't you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/303">TS</a>]
00:05:05 ◼ ► know quite firing correctly so I ditched [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/305">TS</a>]
00:05:09 ◼ ► that but that was an idea that I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/309">TS</a>]
00:05:10 ◼ ► been working on since probably like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/310">TS</a>]
00:05:13 ◼ ► after my freshman year of college and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/313">TS</a>]
00:05:16 ◼ ► after a couple years after I graduated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/316">TS</a>]
00:05:18 ◼ ► college I was working as a web developer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/318">TS</a>]
00:05:20 ◼ ► and an IT guy and I got kind of sick of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/320">TS</a>]
00:05:24 ◼ ► that job and I thought you know I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/324">TS</a>]
00:05:25 ◼ ► always wanted to actually sit down and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/325">TS</a>]
00:05:27 ◼ ► finish a novel and so I started working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/327">TS</a>]
00:05:29 ◼ ► again on that idea and I started from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/329">TS</a>]
00:05:32 ◼ ► scratch and I worked on it like my spare [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/332">TS</a>]
00:05:35 ◼ ► time you know around my job at night [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/335">TS</a>]
00:05:39 ◼ ► weekend's etc and my favorite story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/339">TS</a>]
00:05:42 ◼ ► about that novel is that I finished that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/342">TS</a>]
00:05:44 ◼ ► novel I liked I got to a point where I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/344">TS</a>]
00:05:46 ◼ ► want to say was maybe August of 2004 or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/346">TS</a>]
00:05:49 ◼ ► so and I I sort of was like I had gotten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/349">TS</a>]
00:05:55 ◼ ► close enough I knew where the end was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/355">TS</a>]
00:05:56 ◼ ► you know and I was very close to it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/356">TS</a>]
00:05:58 ◼ ► I remember that one day I realized you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/358">TS</a>]
00:06:00 ◼ ► know okay I'm this is this is the last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/360">TS</a>]
00:06:02 ◼ ► chapter like I know where I am and I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/362">TS</a>]
00:06:04 ◼ ► finish this in like another couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/364">TS</a>]
00:06:05 ◼ ► thousand words and I was at work it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/365">TS</a>]
00:06:08 ◼ ► a Friday and it was the middle of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/368">TS</a>]
00:06:09 ◼ ► summer in August and there was nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/369">TS</a>]
00:06:11 ◼ ► going on so I sort of looked around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/371">TS</a>]
00:06:12 ◼ ► realized nobody is paying any attention [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/372">TS</a>]
00:06:14 ◼ ► to me that nobody's in the office a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/374">TS</a>]
00:06:16 ◼ ► of people on vacation so I fired up my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/376">TS</a>]
00:06:18 ◼ ► word processor and I like I know exactly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/378">TS</a>]
00:06:20 ◼ ► what I need to write and I like banged [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/380">TS</a>]
00:06:21 ◼ ► out the last couple thousand words of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/381">TS</a>]
00:06:22 ◼ ► that novel while sitting at my desk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/382">TS</a>]
00:06:24 ◼ ► Clow and that was the first thing I ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/384">TS</a>]
00:06:26 ◼ ► finished it like I remember sitting back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/386">TS</a>]
00:06:28 ◼ ► and just like looking at going like oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/388">TS</a>]
00:06:29 ◼ ► my god I actually did it I actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/389">TS</a>]
00:06:35 ◼ ► mind-blowing to me at 24 this thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/395">TS</a>]
00:06:38 ◼ ► I had been you know thinking my entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/398">TS</a>]
00:06:40 ◼ ► life I something I wanted to do but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/400">TS</a>]
00:06:42 ◼ ► wasn't sure I would ever actually be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/402">TS</a>]
00:06:44 ◼ ► able to do it so what what uh what novel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/404">TS</a>]
00:06:49 ◼ ► is that is that something I've read or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/409">TS</a>]
00:06:51 ◼ ► shook your head up deed something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/411">TS</a>]
00:06:53 ◼ ► you read is the driver that is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/413">TS</a>]
00:06:56 ◼ ► driver series uh-huh and I think I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/416">TS</a>]
00:06:59 ◼ ► got a copy here unfortunately um yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/419">TS</a>]
00:07:01 ◼ ► don't know unfortunately not not gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/421">TS</a>]
00:07:04 ◼ ► um yeah I'm trying to find if I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/424">TS</a>]
00:07:06 ◼ ► like fortunately it was all written in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/426">TS</a>]
00:07:08 ◼ ► like Apple works or something so some of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/428">TS</a>]
00:07:11 ◼ ► these formats may be a little a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/431">TS</a>]
00:07:14 ◼ ► yeah so this was a post-apocalyptic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/434">TS</a>]
00:07:20 ◼ ► character was a driver he had a car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/440">TS</a>]
00:07:22 ◼ ► essentially and there were two main [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/442">TS</a>]
00:07:24 ◼ ► characters one was this this driver [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/444">TS</a>]
00:07:26 ◼ ► named Nathan and the other one was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/446">TS</a>]
00:07:28 ◼ ► young woman named Ellen and it was sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/448">TS</a>]
00:07:31 ◼ ► of you know everything everything goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/451">TS</a>]
00:07:33 ◼ ► back to Star Wars with me Jason this was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/453">TS</a>]
00:07:37 ◼ ► post-apocalyptic novel that was very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/457">TS</a>]
00:07:39 ◼ ► much the hero's journey and I fell into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/459">TS</a>]
00:07:42 ◼ ► some of my love of Star Wars it was I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/462">TS</a>]
00:07:45 ◼ ► because I did read it and that is my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/465">TS</a>]
00:07:47 ◼ ► memory of it is that it was very it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/467">TS</a>]
00:07:49 ◼ ► very hero's journey very Star Wars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/469">TS</a>]
00:07:51 ◼ ► except set in this kind of earthbound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/471">TS</a>]
00:07:53 ◼ ► post-apocalyptic setting but very Star [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/473">TS</a>]
00:07:56 ◼ ► Wars right down to you know kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/476">TS</a>]
00:07:58 ◼ ► wizards and dark forces and things like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/478">TS</a>]
00:08:01 ◼ ► that officer and I and everything I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/481">TS</a>]
00:08:03 ◼ ► so he was envisioned as a trilogy as is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/483">TS</a>]
00:08:05 ◼ ► all fantasy stories Rudy obligated to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/485">TS</a>]
00:08:08 ◼ ► and I ended up I finished that one and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/488">TS</a>]
00:08:11 ◼ ► around the time I finished that up or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/491">TS</a>]
00:08:13 ◼ ► shortly thereafter was when I decided to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/493">TS</a>]
00:08:15 ◼ ► leave my computer job and I did that by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/495">TS</a>]
00:08:18 ◼ ► going I quit and I went to Ireland for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/498">TS</a>]
00:08:21 ◼ ► month actually with uh my friend Tony [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/501">TS</a>]
00:08:23 ◼ ► Sindelar yeah who was incomparable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/503">TS</a>]
00:08:25 ◼ ► panelist he and I traveled around for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/505">TS</a>]
00:08:28 ◼ ► with another friend of ours and during [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/508">TS</a>]
00:08:30 ◼ ► that time I started jotting down notes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/510">TS</a>]
00:08:31 ◼ ► for the second book in that series I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/511">TS</a>]
00:08:34 ◼ ► will note that you know not to not to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/514">TS</a>]
00:08:37 ◼ ► discourage anybody but in general if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/517">TS</a>]
00:08:39 ◼ ► you're like thinking from an actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/519">TS</a>]
00:08:40 ◼ ► practical like business point of view [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/520">TS</a>]
00:08:43 ◼ ► yeah because if you start in on a second [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/523">TS</a>]
00:08:46 ◼ ► book and the first book never sells then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/526">TS</a>]
00:08:48 ◼ ► you've basically written a book that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/528">TS</a>]
00:08:50 ◼ ► not going to be saleable in its own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/530">TS</a>]
00:08:52 ◼ ► right because you've written the middle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/532">TS</a>]
00:08:53 ◼ ► of a story unless you're very very lucky [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/533">TS</a>]
00:08:55 ◼ ► it's real and you're like lois mcmaster [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/535">TS</a>]
00:08:58 ◼ ► bujold did that right where where she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/538">TS</a>]
00:09:05 ◼ ► the to Cordelia's honor is the is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/545">TS</a>]
00:09:09 ◼ ► the the omnibus version but she ended up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/549">TS</a>]
00:09:11 ◼ ► writing one of those and putting it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/551">TS</a>]
00:09:15 ◼ ► aside and then writing another book in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/555">TS</a>]
00:09:17 ◼ ► the universe but it wasn't a direct [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/557">TS</a>]
00:09:18 ◼ ► continuation right right now would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/558">TS</a>]
00:09:20 ◼ ► like if yeah this would be like if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/560">TS</a>]
00:09:23 ◼ ► Strikes Back like me which is a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/563">TS</a>]
00:09:25 ◼ ► movie but like trying to sell that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/565">TS</a>]
00:09:26 ◼ ► without having Star Wars you know before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/566">TS</a>]
00:09:29 ◼ ► it seems tough yeah and so you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/569">TS</a>]
00:09:33 ◼ ► was good for me I'm glad that I did it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/573">TS</a>]
00:09:34 ◼ ► because I learned a lot I felt like in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/574">TS</a>]
00:09:36 ◼ ► that series every like I just kept [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/576">TS</a>]
00:09:38 ◼ ► getting better it was about honing my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/578">TS</a>]
00:09:40 ◼ ► craft I felt like it really helped me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/580">TS</a>]
00:09:42 ◼ ► improve and it was it was doing it which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/582">TS</a>]
00:09:45 ◼ ► is the most important thing right it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/585">TS</a>]
00:09:47 ◼ ► not like sitting around thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/587">TS</a>]
00:09:49 ◼ ► how do I uh man I wonder figure out a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/589">TS</a>]
00:09:51 ◼ ► novel no it was actually sitting down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/591">TS</a>]
00:09:52 ◼ ► putting words on a page and you know in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/592">TS</a>]
00:09:54 ◼ ► some ways there's you never lose out if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/594">TS</a>]
00:09:56 ◼ ► you're if you're putting words on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/596">TS</a>]
00:09:58 ◼ ► page even if those words don't end up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/598">TS</a>]
00:09:59 ◼ ► you know turning into something at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/599">TS</a>]
00:10:02 ◼ ► you you've done it it's like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/602">TS</a>]
00:10:03 ◼ ► you've gone to the gym essentially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/603">TS</a>]
00:10:05 ◼ ► you've exercised your creative skills so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/605">TS</a>]
00:10:08 ◼ ► and it's true did you do NaNoWriMo I did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/608">TS</a>]
00:10:11 ◼ ► at several times a four or five times I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/611">TS</a>]
00:10:14 ◼ ► think that I actually finished it maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/614">TS</a>]
00:10:16 ◼ ► more I don't remember um I worked on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/616">TS</a>]
00:10:19 ◼ ► couple different projects none of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/619">TS</a>]
00:10:21 ◼ ► were directly connected to this I want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/621">TS</a>]
00:10:23 ◼ ► to say I have like 50,000 words of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/623">TS</a>]
00:10:26 ◼ ► a why a sci-fi novel somewhere that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/626">TS</a>]
00:10:28 ◼ ► worked on I have a hundred thousand word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/628">TS</a>]
00:10:31 ◼ ► like sort of like literary quote unquote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/631">TS</a>]
00:10:34 ◼ ► literary novel that I wrote which was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/634">TS</a>]
00:10:36 ◼ ► like wow semi autobiographical thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/636">TS</a>]
00:10:39 ◼ ► that I wrote which I basically I did two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/639">TS</a>]
00:10:40 ◼ ► years of that so yeah I did the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/640">TS</a>]
00:10:42 ◼ ► half of one year in second half and all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/642">TS</a>]
00:10:43 ◼ ► of my all of my NaNoWriMo is like that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/643">TS</a>]
00:10:45 ◼ ► was just looking it up actually while we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/645">TS</a>]
00:10:47 ◼ ► were talking because I wanted to figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/647">TS</a>]
00:10:48 ◼ ► out what what the three because I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/648">TS</a>]
00:10:49 ◼ ► written three novel in manuscripts and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/649">TS</a>]
00:10:55 ◼ ► NaNoWriMo years and so that because I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/655">TS</a>]
00:10:58 ◼ ► I answered the question of when what did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/658">TS</a>]
00:11:00 ◼ ► I first finish a novel manuscript was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/660">TS</a>]
00:11:03 ◼ ► was almost ten years ago it was November [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/663">TS</a>]
00:11:06 ◼ ► 2007 because I did NaNoWriMo in 2006 and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/666">TS</a>]
00:11:09 ◼ ► then finished that novel actually wrote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/669">TS</a>]
00:11:11 ◼ ► during the year too and then finished [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/671">TS</a>]
00:11:13 ◼ ► the novel in in November 2007 because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/673">TS</a>]
00:11:15 ◼ ► that manuscript like 150,000 words long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/675">TS</a>]
00:11:18 ◼ ► and and so it's 250 thousand word blocks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/678">TS</a>]
00:11:20 ◼ ► and then I did like in February I did my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/680">TS</a>]
00:11:22 ◼ ► own little NaNoWriMo but you know a long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/682">TS</a>]
00:11:24 ◼ ► time now and then and then I've got two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/684">TS</a>]
00:11:25 ◼ ► others in a drawer but it goes to your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/685">TS</a>]
00:11:30 ◼ ► NaNoWriMo and full disclosure I'm on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/690">TS</a>]
00:11:33 ◼ ► board of NaNoWriMo it's a nonprofit that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/693">TS</a>]
00:11:35 ◼ ► runs the event and I because I believe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/695">TS</a>]
00:11:37 ◼ ► in it but one of the things I really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/697">TS</a>]
00:11:39 ◼ ► believe about it is you can see that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/699">TS</a>]
00:11:43 ◼ ► more you do it the more the rust falls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/703">TS</a>]
00:11:44 ◼ ► off and the more it doesn't become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/704">TS</a>]
00:11:46 ◼ ► easier but you it becomes you become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/706">TS</a>]
00:11:48 ◼ ► more capable of doing it and it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/708">TS</a>]
00:11:51 ◼ ► no wonder that when you talk to a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/711">TS</a>]
00:11:53 ◼ ► writers not all writers but a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/713">TS</a>]
00:11:54 ◼ ► productive novelists like Stephen King [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/714">TS</a>]
00:11:55 ◼ ► the number that they say in terms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/715">TS</a>]
00:11:58 ◼ ► word count that they basically do in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/718">TS</a>]
00:12:02 ◼ ► NaNoWriMo word count it's basically the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/722">TS</a>]
00:12:04 ◼ ► if you were a novelist you would write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/724">TS</a>]
00:12:07 ◼ ► you know fifteen hundred words a day and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/727">TS</a>]
00:12:09 ◼ ► you would be productive and the truth is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/729">TS</a>]
00:12:11 ◼ ► that doesn't sound like a lot to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/731">TS</a>]
00:12:13 ◼ ► because I can write a I can pick out a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/733">TS</a>]
00:12:15 ◼ ► Macworld column at 1,200 words the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/735">TS</a>]
00:12:19 ◼ ► day in a few hours but novel writing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/739">TS</a>]
00:12:22 ◼ ► harder than writing a column I find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/742">TS</a>]
00:12:24 ◼ ► because you've got to keep your plot in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/744">TS</a>]
00:12:26 ◼ ► there's a lot more going on there but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/746">TS</a>]
00:12:28 ◼ ► the the my point is if you keep up that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/748">TS</a>]
00:12:33 ◼ ► you've got fifty thousand words if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/753">TS</a>]
00:12:35 ◼ ► did it every day for two months you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/755">TS</a>]
00:12:37 ◼ ► basically got a normal sized novel and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/757">TS</a>]
00:12:39 ◼ ► you can imagine that although it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/759">TS</a>]
00:12:40 ◼ ► realistic even if you're Stephen King [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/760">TS</a>]
00:12:42 ◼ ► that means that if you wrote every day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/762">TS</a>]
00:12:44 ◼ ► for a few hours you know in the span [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/764">TS</a>]
00:12:47 ◼ ► it's not like for 12 or 15 hours but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/767">TS</a>]
00:12:50 ◼ ► like maybe for eight hours or six hours [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/770">TS</a>]
00:12:52 ◼ ► you could potentially write like six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/772">TS</a>]
00:12:57 ◼ ► because you'd want to revise and other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/777">TS</a>]
00:12:59 ◼ ► things but it's like it's all once you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/779">TS</a>]
00:13:01 ◼ ► start to take the beyond the first step [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/781">TS</a>]
00:13:03 ◼ ► in the in the journey right the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/783">TS</a>]
00:13:05 ◼ ► step in the marathon you got to take the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/785">TS</a>]
00:13:08 ◼ ► first step and then you take the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/788">TS</a>]
00:13:10 ◼ ► step and it's a process that leads to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/790">TS</a>]
00:13:12 ◼ ► the end yeah you can't I mean no one's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/792">TS</a>]
00:13:15 ◼ ► sitting down and writing a novel in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/795">TS</a>]
00:13:16 ◼ ► day probably maybe someone's done that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/796">TS</a>]
00:13:19 ◼ ► but a very bad no it's probably not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/799">TS</a>]
00:13:21 ◼ ► great you know so you know it is a that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/801">TS</a>]
00:13:24 ◼ ► is I think the thing is daunting about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/804">TS</a>]
00:13:25 ◼ ► it right it's a commitment you know just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/805">TS</a>]
00:13:27 ◼ ► like driving for a 5k or something right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/807">TS</a>]
00:13:29 ◼ ► I always like it marathon or a 5 or 10k [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/809">TS</a>]
00:13:35 ◼ ► mountain it's kind of like that yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/815">TS</a>]
00:13:37 ◼ ► yeah a marathon probably closer because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/817">TS</a>]
00:13:39 ◼ ► like there are people who can go out and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/819">TS</a>]
00:13:42 ◼ ► without prepping themselves no sweat but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/822">TS</a>]
00:13:45 ◼ ► a marathon is everybody has to train for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/825">TS</a>]
00:13:49 ◼ ► runners yeah so it's it's a gradual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/829">TS</a>]
00:13:52 ◼ ► process and you know between NaNoWriMo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/832">TS</a>]
00:13:54 ◼ ► and writing some other stuff on the side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/834">TS</a>]
00:13:55 ◼ ► you know I once asked I was at a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/835">TS</a>]
00:13:58 ◼ ► signing for Neil Stevenson and asked you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/838">TS</a>]
00:14:02 ◼ ► know for his advice and his advice to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/842">TS</a>]
00:14:04 ◼ ► was and I think he may have said this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/844">TS</a>]
00:14:05 ◼ ► house for two it was right 10,000 pages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/845">TS</a>]
00:14:07 ◼ ► and throw him out and I feel like I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/847">TS</a>]
00:14:10 ◼ ► pretty good I don't know if I wrote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/850">TS</a>]
00:14:11 ◼ ► 10,000 pages throw him out but I wrote a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/851">TS</a>]
00:14:13 ◼ ► lot of pages that are you know never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/853">TS</a>]
00:14:15 ◼ ► gonna see the light of day basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/855">TS</a>]
00:14:16 ◼ ► yeah and so along those lines you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/856">TS</a>]
00:14:20 ◼ ► worked on the sequel to that to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/860">TS</a>]
00:14:22 ◼ ► post-apocalyptic book I started in on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/862">TS</a>]
00:14:24 ◼ ► the third book and never finished it as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/864">TS</a>]
00:14:27 ◼ ► you know because you read the first two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/867">TS</a>]
00:14:28 ◼ ► yeah and I know how it ends but I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/868">TS</a>]
00:14:31 ◼ ► like there's no point to writing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/871">TS</a>]
00:14:32 ◼ ► because I so that the forestay John has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/872">TS</a>]
00:14:34 ◼ ► to tell me how it ends I'll tell you how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/874">TS</a>]
00:14:36 ◼ ► it ends tell me Oh Ned's george RR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/876">TS</a>]
00:14:39 ◼ ► martin as it's in my head but one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/879">TS</a>]
00:14:41 ◼ ► funny things about that which I dug out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/881">TS</a>]
00:14:43 ◼ ► around the time that I got my agent was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/883">TS</a>]
00:14:45 ◼ ► I submitted that to my current now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/885">TS</a>]
00:14:46 ◼ ► current agent and he turned it down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/886">TS</a>]
00:14:49 ◼ ► I submitted to a few places and did not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/889">TS</a>]
00:14:51 ◼ ► get you know nobody nobody wanted to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/891">TS</a>]
00:14:54 ◼ ► take me on as a client on the basis of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/894">TS</a>]
00:14:56 ◼ ► that write manuscript and probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/896">TS</a>]
00:14:59 ◼ ► rightly so because you know I wrote it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/899">TS</a>]
00:15:01 ◼ ► when I was 24 I had never written a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/901">TS</a>]
00:15:02 ◼ ► novel before I didn't really know what I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/902">TS</a>]
00:15:04 ◼ ► was doing and it's not to say that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/904">TS</a>]
00:15:08 ◼ ► workable novel but it was gonna you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/908">TS</a>]
00:15:11 ◼ ► it's like a house that needs to be taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/911">TS</a>]
00:15:12 ◼ ► down to the study you probably just just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/912">TS</a>]
00:15:14 ◼ ► need to be ripped and probably start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/914">TS</a>]
00:15:15 ◼ ► over yeah I mean I I've mentioned to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/915">TS</a>]
00:15:18 ◼ ► recently I like I think there are some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/918">TS</a>]
00:15:20 ◼ ► some cool ideas in there that I might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/920">TS</a>]
00:15:21 ◼ ► steal for for future stories so that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/921">TS</a>]
00:15:25 ◼ ► why I won't self-published them probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/925">TS</a>]
00:15:29 ◼ ► utility of them and also self-publishing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/929">TS</a>]
00:15:33 ◼ ► doesn't really help your your eyebrow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/933">TS</a>]
00:15:35 ◼ ► has it worked now if you if you end up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/935">TS</a>]
00:15:38 ◼ ► on a roll where they're publishing your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/938">TS</a>]
00:15:40 ◼ ► novels that's the time you dust that off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/940">TS</a>]
00:15:41 ◼ ► and again you probably strip it for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/941">TS</a>]
00:15:44 ◼ ► anything else so how long ago did the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/944">TS</a>]
00:15:49 ◼ ► did the idea for what became Caledonian [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/949">TS</a>]
00:15:53 ◼ ► gambit popped into your head and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/953">TS</a>]
00:15:55 ◼ ► what was the journey from there to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/955">TS</a>]
00:15:56 ◼ ► actually having a finished manuscript to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/956">TS</a>]
00:15:58 ◼ ► email me about I was thinking about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/958">TS</a>]
00:16:01 ◼ ► and I went back and fortunately I'm a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/961">TS</a>]
00:16:02 ◼ ► digital pack rat so I keep everything so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/962">TS</a>]
00:16:04 ◼ ► I was looking through my sort of old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/964">TS</a>]
00:16:07 ◼ ► writing folder and I have a document [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/967">TS</a>]
00:16:09 ◼ ► called Eli dot cwk which is an Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/969">TS</a>]
00:16:13 ◼ ► works document and it de is dated May [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/973">TS</a>]
00:16:17 ◼ ► hey that's tomorrow 2002 so 15 years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/977">TS</a>]
00:16:22 ◼ ► years ago tomorrow as we record this oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/982">TS</a>]
00:16:25 ◼ ► yeah from years ago 15 years ago almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/985">TS</a>]
00:16:27 ◼ ► to the day of your publication day and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/987">TS</a>]
00:16:29 ◼ ► and I think that was probably the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/989">TS</a>]
00:16:31 ◼ ► attempt to write a story I have notes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/991">TS</a>]
00:16:33 ◼ ► and I recently when I at some point dug [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/993">TS</a>]
00:16:37 ◼ ► up my or cleaned a lot of stuff out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/997">TS</a>]
00:16:40 ◼ ► my parents attic I found a bunch of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1000">TS</a>]
00:16:42 ◼ ► notes from college and I found the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1002">TS</a>]
00:16:43 ◼ ► notebook in which I remembered I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1003">TS</a>]
00:16:45 ◼ ► written started jotting down the ideas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1005">TS</a>]
00:16:47 ◼ ► for this story which was probably also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1007">TS</a>]
00:16:49 ◼ ► 2002 or so about second semester senior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1009">TS</a>]
00:16:52 ◼ ► year I think and that was because I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1012">TS</a>]
00:16:54 ◼ ► just been given the Vorkosigan novels by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1014">TS</a>]
00:16:55 ◼ ► lois mcmaster bujold by my cousins and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1015">TS</a>]
00:16:58 ◼ ► was so enamored with them that I wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1018">TS</a>]
00:17:01 ◼ ► to write a space opera that was similar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1021">TS</a>]
00:17:05 ◼ ► sprawling universe all these you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1025">TS</a>]
00:17:08 ◼ ► different factions political intrigue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1028">TS</a>]
00:17:12 ◼ ► throughout the course of a series like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1032">TS</a>]
00:17:14 ◼ ► was I I fell in love with those books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1034">TS</a>]
00:17:16 ◼ ► and I wanted you know as we all do when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1036">TS</a>]
00:17:18 ◼ ► we find something we really love and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1038">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► it's not like we run out of it because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:22 ◼ ► we consume all of it we're like what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1042">TS</a>]
00:17:23 ◼ ► there's no there's no more what what if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1043">TS</a>]
00:17:25 ◼ ► I could make more but like do my own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1045">TS</a>]
00:17:27 ◼ ► thing so yeah I started that's when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1047">TS</a>]
00:17:30 ◼ ► started jotting down notes and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1050">TS</a>]
00:17:32 ◼ ► changed obviously you know that 15 years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1052">TS</a>]
00:17:35 ◼ ► is a long road for a story most things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1055">TS</a>]
00:17:38 ◼ ► probably don't don't live that long as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1058">TS</a>]
00:17:41 ◼ ► an idea and this one I picked up and put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1061">TS</a>]
00:17:44 ◼ ► down a bunch and I think the current [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1064">TS</a>]
00:17:46 ◼ ► version of it really dates back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1066">TS</a>]
00:17:49 ◼ ► probably two thousand eight or nine so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1069">TS</a>]
00:17:54 ◼ ► sent you in what 2010 we decided yep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1074">TS</a>]
00:17:58 ◼ ► 9:00 at which point I was already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1078">TS</a>]
00:18:01 ◼ ► working for Macworld I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1081">TS</a>]
00:18:05 ◼ ► I see how some of this I can't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1085">TS</a>]
00:18:07 ◼ ► remember at this point honestly it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1087">TS</a>]
00:18:08 ◼ ► been so long but I you know I was again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1088">TS</a>]
00:18:10 ◼ ► I was probably working on the side on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1090">TS</a>]
00:18:16 ◼ ► NaNoWriMo as an excuse for this one I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1096">TS</a>]
00:18:18 ◼ ► was actually looking at my Nana right Oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1098">TS</a>]
00:18:19 ◼ ► a dashboard when you mentioned it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1099">TS</a>]
00:18:20 ◼ ► realized none of my stuff's in there I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1100">TS</a>]
00:18:22 ◼ ► think they changed sites and they erased [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1102">TS</a>]
00:18:24 ◼ ► their baby they wiped it out I only had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1104">TS</a>]
00:18:25 ◼ ► one in there for my last one of 2011 and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1105">TS</a>]
00:18:28 ◼ ► the rest weren't in there so I couldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1108">TS</a>]
00:18:30 ◼ ► close it sadly I don't I have no idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1110">TS</a>]
00:18:32 ◼ ► the record is gone but yeah I've done um [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1112">TS</a>]
00:18:37 ◼ ► you know I think NaNoWriMo is great as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1117">TS</a>]
00:18:39 ◼ ► we're just talking about for getting you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1119">TS</a>]
00:18:40 ◼ ► started and once you feel like hey I am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1120">TS</a>]
00:18:44 ◼ ► pretty confident what I'm doing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1124">TS</a>]
00:18:46 ◼ ► realize you don't you don't need that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1126">TS</a>]
00:18:48 ◼ ► a promise a crutch that's not you it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1128">TS</a>]
00:18:51 ◼ ► little pejorative but like you can you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1131">TS</a>]
00:18:53 ◼ ► don't need the training wheels anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1133">TS</a>]
00:18:54 ◼ ► yeah like hey I know how to bike I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1134">TS</a>]
00:18:56 ◼ ► do this you can do this all the time you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1136">TS</a>]
00:18:58 ◼ ► can internal to wait till November right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1138">TS</a>]
00:19:00 ◼ ► that way and so for me I got very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1140">TS</a>]
00:19:04 ◼ ► comfortable in writing all the time and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1144">TS</a>]
00:19:06 ◼ ► especially my day job at Macworld [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1146">TS</a>]
00:19:07 ◼ ► involved writing a lot and so I was very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1147">TS</a>]
00:19:11 ◼ ► comfortable with it as like a process [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1151">TS</a>]
00:19:13 ◼ ► and so I figured you know I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1153">TS</a>]
00:19:15 ◼ ► start back in and I got I think I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1155">TS</a>]
00:19:17 ◼ ► working on the third book in that driver [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1157">TS</a>]
00:19:18 ◼ ► series and I was like oh man I'm just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1158">TS</a>]
00:19:19 ◼ ► totally jammed up on this like I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1159">TS</a>]
00:19:21 ◼ ► really know what to what to do in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1161">TS</a>]
00:19:22 ◼ ► first book didn't do you know didn't get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1162">TS</a>]
00:19:24 ◼ ► any bites and why am i working on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1164">TS</a>]
00:19:27 ◼ ► third book of a trilogy if I can't sell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1167">TS</a>]
00:19:29 ◼ ► the first book and so I think it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1169">TS</a>]
00:19:31 ◼ ► know at a certain point I I sort of had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1171">TS</a>]
00:19:33 ◼ ► to swallow my pride and be like that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1173">TS</a>]
00:19:36 ◼ ► something totally different and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1176">TS</a>]
00:19:38 ◼ ► wrote I think what I wrote was probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1178">TS</a>]
00:19:41 ◼ ► the first thing I wrote was probably the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1181">TS</a>]
00:19:43 ◼ ► it might have been the prologue for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1183">TS</a>]
00:19:46 ◼ ► book or ironically it might have been a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1186">TS</a>]
00:19:48 ◼ ► version of the first chapter of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1188">TS</a>]
00:19:49 ◼ ► second book which will get to well house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1189">TS</a>]
00:19:53 ◼ ► indeed and we'll get so yeah 2008-2009 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1193">TS</a>]
00:19:57 ◼ ► was probably the first like when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1197">TS</a>]
00:19:59 ◼ ► started in working on what eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1199">TS</a>]
00:20:02 ◼ ► become became the Caledonian gambit and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1202">TS</a>]
00:20:04 ◼ ► of course it changed a lot in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1204">TS</a>]
00:20:06 ◼ ► period as even you saw in the time the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1206">TS</a>]
00:20:08 ◼ ► you know that you read it yeah it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1208">TS</a>]
00:20:12 ◼ ► um the the so 2010 you send it to me and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1212">TS</a>]
00:20:16 ◼ ► I read it I remember reading it every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1216">TS</a>]
00:20:18 ◼ ► year for a few years there when the kids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1218">TS</a>]
00:20:21 ◼ ► were little we would go to this family [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1221">TS</a>]
00:20:22 ◼ ► camp up in the woods in the Sierras and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1222">TS</a>]
00:20:24 ◼ ► I remember very distinctly sitting uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1224">TS</a>]
00:20:29 ◼ ► reading I think on I think not on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1229">TS</a>]
00:20:33 ◼ ► Kindle it might have been like on an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1233">TS</a>]
00:20:38 ◼ ► or actually could have been an iPad even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1238">TS</a>]
00:20:41 ◼ ► original iPad in iBooks I think that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1241">TS</a>]
00:20:43 ◼ ► what I did and not a Kindle because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1243">TS</a>]
00:20:45 ◼ ► Kindle that I had at that point had the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1245">TS</a>]
00:20:49 ◼ ► you know the stupid keyboard it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1249">TS</a>]
00:20:51 ◼ ► good anyway but I uh so the device isn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1251">TS</a>]
00:20:53 ◼ ► clear but I know it was a digital device [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1253">TS</a>]
00:20:54 ◼ ► and I was sitting there reading it like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1254">TS</a>]
00:20:56 ◼ ► in a in a lounge chair kind of thing one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1256">TS</a>]
00:21:00 ◼ ► of those like director Z chairs on dirt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1260">TS</a>]
00:21:03 ◼ ► surrounded by trees in the National [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1263">TS</a>]
00:21:05 ◼ ► Forest in front of our tent cabin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1265">TS</a>]
00:21:07 ◼ ► probably drinking a beer and reading and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1267">TS</a>]
00:21:09 ◼ ► noting the book and I have a fond a fond [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1269">TS</a>]
00:21:12 ◼ ► clear memory of reading and writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1272">TS</a>]
00:21:14 ◼ ► notes about the book now you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1274">TS</a>]
00:21:16 ◼ ► keeping in mind that my my kids were way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1276">TS</a>]
00:21:19 ◼ ► I mean it's been seven years right kids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1279">TS</a>]
00:21:21 ◼ ► have changed a lot more than you and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1281">TS</a>]
00:21:22 ◼ ► have in the last seven years the and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1282">TS</a>]
00:21:27 ◼ ► was it definitely hit me at the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1287">TS</a>]
00:21:31 ◼ ► Vorkosigan series and having read all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1291">TS</a>]
00:21:33 ◼ ► those in a very short period of time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1293">TS</a>]
00:21:36 ◼ ► certainly I was reminded of of that kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1296">TS</a>]
00:21:40 ◼ ► of style of thing this this is actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1300">TS</a>]
00:21:42 ◼ ► two months before the incomparable by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1302">TS</a>]
00:21:44 ◼ ► the way yeah right right this predates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1304">TS</a>]
00:21:46 ◼ ► it so they insanely I just found a thank [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1306">TS</a>]
00:21:48 ◼ ► God I used to keep a blog somewhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1308">TS</a>]
00:21:50 ◼ ► I found a blog suggesting that I started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1310">TS</a>]
00:21:53 ◼ ► it in March 2009 so right that was out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1313">TS</a>]
00:21:56 ◼ ► Oh only about a year and a year and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1316">TS</a>]
00:21:59 ◼ ► change before I sent it to you yes so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1319">TS</a>]
00:22:01 ◼ ► you wrote wrote it across 2009 basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1321">TS</a>]
00:22:04 ◼ ► in the beginning of 2010 that first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1324">TS</a>]
00:22:05 ◼ ► draft of it so I remember reading it I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1325">TS</a>]
00:22:08 ◼ ► remember I remember my notes of it a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1328">TS</a>]
00:22:12 ◼ ► little bit mostly that my complaint was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1332">TS</a>]
00:22:15 ◼ ► that your main character seemed like an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1335">TS</a>]
00:22:16 ◼ ► idiot yeah yeah yeah that's fair um I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1336">TS</a>]
00:22:22 ◼ ► I'm not sure how much I fixed that but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1342">TS</a>]
00:22:26 ◼ ► feel that way anymore because I read I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1346">TS</a>]
00:22:27 ◼ ► read another draft of it much later and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1347">TS</a>]
00:22:29 ◼ ► no I mean it was just funny that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1349">TS</a>]
00:22:32 ◼ ► that I remember that being one of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1352">TS</a>]
00:22:33 ◼ ► main I mean I found a bunch of little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1353">TS</a>]
00:22:35 ◼ ► things I think about like oh I what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1355">TS</a>]
00:22:36 ◼ ► about this and this seems to consistent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1356">TS</a>]
00:22:38 ◼ ► in all of that but what my overarching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1358">TS</a>]
00:22:41 ◼ ► thing I think was that I had some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1361">TS</a>]
00:22:43 ◼ ► confusion about the two viewpoints [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1363">TS</a>]
00:22:44 ◼ ► because there are sort of two viewpoint [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1364">TS</a>]
00:22:48 ◼ ► frustration that your main character [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1368">TS</a>]
00:22:50 ◼ ► seemed to be a little bit passive and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1370">TS</a>]
00:22:53 ◼ ► got a little bit taken advantage of by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1373">TS</a>]
00:22:55 ◼ ► other characters to the point like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1375">TS</a>]
00:22:56 ◼ ► wanted to see him sort of like have more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1376">TS</a>]
00:22:58 ◼ ► struggle or or or feel you know figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1378">TS</a>]
00:23:02 ◼ ► things out a little bit back a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1382">TS</a>]
00:23:05 ◼ ► yeah because he just seemed like he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1385">TS</a>]
00:23:06 ◼ ► giving because I mean the story in broad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1386">TS</a>]
00:23:08 ◼ ► strokes without spoiling it you end up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1388">TS</a>]
00:23:10 ◼ ► with this your main character kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1390">TS</a>]
00:23:12 ◼ ► has a homecoming that's kind of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1392">TS</a>]
00:23:13 ◼ ► reluctant homecoming and it we as we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1393">TS</a>]
00:23:16 ◼ ► learn more about his family life and his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1396">TS</a>]
00:23:18 ◼ ► life back where he grew up you can see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1398">TS</a>]
00:23:22 ◼ ► personalities and you can see why he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1402">TS</a>]
00:23:25 ◼ ► honestly you see why he left and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1405">TS</a>]
00:23:28 ◼ ► the challenge in the first rap that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1408">TS</a>]
00:23:29 ◼ ► had was that when he returns back it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1409">TS</a>]
00:23:32 ◼ ► feels like he's just going back to being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1412">TS</a>]
00:23:34 ◼ ► ping ponged around by these other people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1414">TS</a>]
00:23:36 ◼ ► in his life and I think I think in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1416">TS</a>]
00:23:38 ◼ ► final version that isn't there that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1418">TS</a>]
00:23:41 ◼ ► you see why he left and and why there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1421">TS</a>]
00:23:44 ◼ ► are all these issues but you also see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1424">TS</a>]
00:23:47 ◼ ► that he's his own person and he's making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1427">TS</a>]
00:23:49 ◼ ► his own decisions and he's he's not kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1429">TS</a>]
00:23:52 ◼ ► of like there occasionally he's hapless [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1432">TS</a>]
00:23:55 ◼ ► because he's learning about this new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1435">TS</a>]
00:23:56 ◼ ► kind of world that's opened up to him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1436">TS</a>]
00:23:57 ◼ ► but he's never dumb about it like he the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1437">TS</a>]
00:24:00 ◼ ► decisions he makes or the things he gets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1440">TS</a>]
00:24:03 ◼ ► steered into I don't feel like he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1443">TS</a>]
00:24:05 ◼ ► doing it because he's been cowed or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1445">TS</a>]
00:24:08 ◼ ► because he's clueless and that that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1448">TS</a>]
00:24:09 ◼ ► a for me that was like one of the key [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1449">TS</a>]
00:24:11 ◼ ► points is I want to root for this guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1451">TS</a>]
00:24:12 ◼ ► but every time he does something I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1452">TS</a>]
00:24:14 ◼ ► thinking you idiot why are you doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1454">TS</a>]
00:24:16 ◼ ► that and I think that and that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1456">TS</a>]
00:24:18 ◼ ► subtle thing but I think you managed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1458">TS</a>]
00:24:19 ◼ ► navigate that a little bit in making him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1459">TS</a>]
00:24:21 ◼ ► see him a little bit well you know more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1461">TS</a>]
00:24:23 ◼ ► capable and and like when he get when he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1463">TS</a>]
00:24:25 ◼ ► does something that is dumb he does it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1465">TS</a>]
00:24:27 ◼ ► for reasons right it's not it really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1467">TS</a>]
00:24:29 ◼ ► turn out to be a regrettable later but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1469">TS</a>]
00:24:31 ◼ ► he does it for good reasons well the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1471">TS</a>]
00:24:33 ◼ ► thing and it's the thing we often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1473">TS</a>]
00:24:34 ◼ ► complain about you know when we critique [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1474">TS</a>]
00:24:36 ◼ ► television shows for example or other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1476">TS</a>]
00:24:38 ◼ ► things where people do things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1478">TS</a>]
00:24:40 ◼ ► think are dumb and the Emmy we always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1480">TS</a>]
00:24:42 ◼ ► like why did you do that and then the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1482">TS</a>]
00:24:43 ◼ ► answer it's like because that's what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1483">TS</a>]
00:24:45 ◼ ► script told them to do right you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1485">TS</a>]
00:24:46 ◼ ► want you don't ever feel like you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1486">TS</a>]
00:24:48 ◼ ► your character is doing something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1488">TS</a>]
00:24:49 ◼ ► because the plot demands that they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1489">TS</a>]
00:24:52 ◼ ► this thing even though it makes no sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1492">TS</a>]
00:24:54 ◼ ► right like even if they're going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1494">TS</a>]
00:24:55 ◼ ► something dumb or make a mistake which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1495">TS</a>]
00:24:57 ◼ ► characters have to do because they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1497">TS</a>]
00:24:58 ◼ ► flawed and that's what makes stories [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1498">TS</a>]
00:25:00 ◼ ► interesting is conflict and mistakes and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1500">TS</a>]
00:25:02 ◼ ► and that's our jazz you want to make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1502">TS</a>]
00:25:05 ◼ ► make it seem like there was a reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1505">TS</a>]
00:25:07 ◼ ► there was a rationale even if it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1507">TS</a>]
00:25:09 ◼ ► bad rationale there was a reason that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1509">TS</a>]
00:25:11 ◼ ► they did what they did yeah right like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1511">TS</a>]
00:25:13 ◼ ► this character is put under pressure in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1513">TS</a>]
00:25:15 ◼ ► a certain way psychological pressure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1515">TS</a>]
00:25:16 ◼ ► physical pressure and they react and as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1516">TS</a>]
00:25:19 ◼ ► long as it makes sense because because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1519">TS</a>]
00:25:22 ◼ ► mean also a subtle thing right is you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1522">TS</a>]
00:25:24 ◼ ► don't want you want people to like your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1524">TS</a>]
00:25:26 ◼ ► protagonist right yeah and not feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1526">TS</a>]
00:25:28 ◼ ► unless you're writing a like a detective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1528">TS</a>]
00:25:31 ◼ ► that's deliberately unlikable well you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1531">TS</a>]
00:25:32 ◼ ► wanna be yeah you wanna understand why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1532">TS</a>]
00:25:34 ◼ ► they do what they do and and be and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1534">TS</a>]
00:25:35 ◼ ► identify them in some with them in some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1535">TS</a>]
00:25:38 ◼ ► way and and if if if you like come on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1538">TS</a>]
00:25:41 ◼ ► dummy why did you do that that's not you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1541">TS</a>]
00:25:43 ◼ ► takes you out of the story so that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1543">TS</a>]
00:25:45 ◼ ► remember that and definitely I was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1545">TS</a>]
00:25:47 ◼ ► was a change that that made I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1547">TS</a>]
00:25:49 ◼ ► what else you want to talk about about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1549">TS</a>]
00:25:50 ◼ ► the changes that you made along the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1550">TS</a>]
00:25:53 ◼ ► different you know you kind of backed up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1553">TS</a>]
00:25:55 ◼ ► the opening of the book at one point and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1555">TS</a>]
00:25:57 ◼ ► then you kind of the final the final [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1557">TS</a>]
00:25:59 ◼ ► book opens very much like the the draft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1559">TS</a>]
00:26:01 ◼ ► I read was you can went there and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1561">TS</a>]
00:26:03 ◼ ► went away from it it went through some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1563">TS</a>]
00:26:05 ◼ ► changes and so a lot of these came as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1565">TS</a>]
00:26:06 ◼ ► result of getting a working with the man [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1566">TS</a>]
00:26:10 ◼ ► who is now my agent so let's let's and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1570">TS</a>]
00:26:12 ◼ ► let's let's talk about that yeah let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1572">TS</a>]
00:26:14 ◼ ► talk about that for a moment so you did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1574">TS</a>]
00:26:16 ◼ ► ultimately get an agent what was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1576">TS</a>]
00:26:18 ◼ ► process what happened with that so for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1578">TS</a>]
00:26:21 ◼ ► several years I was going to well I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1581">TS</a>]
00:26:23 ◼ ► guess I only went like once when I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1583">TS</a>]
00:26:25 ◼ ► younger in like my mid-20s I went to vos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1585">TS</a>]
00:26:27 ◼ ► con which is a local science fiction con [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1587">TS</a>]
00:26:29 ◼ ► and at the time I went which I think was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1589">TS</a>]
00:26:31 ◼ ► 2006 it was in downtown Boston it since [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1591">TS</a>]
00:26:35 ◼ ► moved to the over near the Convention [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1595">TS</a>]
00:26:37 ◼ ► Center but a you know it was just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1597">TS</a>]
00:26:39 ◼ ► chance to like go and and see some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1599">TS</a>]
00:26:42 ◼ ► interesting writers george RR martin was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1602">TS</a>]
00:26:44 ◼ ► there cory doctorow was there I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1604">TS</a>]
00:26:45 ◼ ► people that you know I knew and admired [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1605">TS</a>]
00:26:47 ◼ ► I also thought hey I've written a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1607">TS</a>]
00:26:49 ◼ ► at this point like maybe this is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1609">TS</a>]
00:26:51 ◼ ► interesting way to like network a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1611">TS</a>]
00:26:54 ◼ ► and so I went to try and do that and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1614">TS</a>]
00:26:56 ◼ ► had an interesting experience and really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1616">TS</a>]
00:26:58 ◼ ► like felt like I came away opened up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1618">TS</a>]
00:27:02 ◼ ► a new sort of slice of fandom right like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1622">TS</a>]
00:27:05 ◼ ► kansai not I've been to other like I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1625">TS</a>]
00:27:07 ◼ ► been Somani made conventions some video [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1627">TS</a>]
00:27:09 ◼ ► game convention stuff like that I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1629">TS</a>]
00:27:11 ◼ ► been to Macworld like but there was not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1631">TS</a>]
00:27:16 ◼ ► science-fiction con and so that was an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1636">TS</a>]
00:27:17 ◼ ► interesting experience several years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1637">TS</a>]
00:27:18 ◼ ► later I sort of stopped going for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1638">TS</a>]
00:27:20 ◼ ► while and then several years later I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1640">TS</a>]
00:27:21 ◼ ► went back and around 2000 G's 2012 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1641">TS</a>]
00:27:27 ◼ ► probably I so I had gone to boss Con in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1647">TS</a>]
00:27:32 ◼ ► February or so and I was looking at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1652">TS</a>]
00:27:36 ◼ ► panels and I saw a panel by a guy named [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1656">TS</a>]
00:27:38 ◼ ► Mike Cole was a writer and I had read a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1658">TS</a>]
00:27:41 ◼ ► blog post by him I'm only a month or so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1661">TS</a>]
00:27:44 ◼ ► earlier maybe linked to by John Scalzi [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1664">TS</a>]
00:27:46 ◼ ► or something talking about just how hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1666">TS</a>]
00:27:49 ◼ ► it was to make a living as a full-time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1669">TS</a>]
00:27:52 ◼ ► writer which Mike was trying to do at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1672">TS</a>]
00:27:53 ◼ ► that point and he was Mike was very open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1673">TS</a>]
00:27:55 ◼ ► about like how his books were doing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1675">TS</a>]
00:27:57 ◼ ► kind of money he was making you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1677">TS</a>]
00:27:59 ◼ ► fact that he wants to live in in you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1679">TS</a>]
00:28:01 ◼ ► know New York City and how like making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1681">TS</a>]
00:28:03 ◼ ► you know even with books that did pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1683">TS</a>]
00:28:05 ◼ ► well it was still really really uphill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1685">TS</a>]
00:28:09 ◼ ► climb and I thought it was fascinating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1689">TS</a>]
00:28:11 ◼ ► and it was also just you know it was not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1691">TS</a>]
00:28:14 ◼ ► a rosy picture but it was a picture that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1694">TS</a>]
00:28:16 ◼ ► said like you can do this it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1696">TS</a>]
00:28:18 ◼ ► gonna be really hard and so I went and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1698">TS</a>]
00:28:21 ◼ ► saw Mike on a panel and later on a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1701">TS</a>]
00:28:22 ◼ ► of these cons do these things called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1702">TS</a>]
00:28:23 ◼ ► coffee klatches where you just sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1703">TS</a>]
00:28:26 ◼ ► yeah with someone and so I signed up for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1706">TS</a>]
00:28:28 ◼ ► Mike's and I sat down and we ended up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1708">TS</a>]
00:28:30 ◼ ► chatting and Mike again very generous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1710">TS</a>]
00:28:32 ◼ ► with his time was like hey you know as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1712">TS</a>]
00:28:33 ◼ ► soon as we sat down it's like I'm sure a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1713">TS</a>]
00:28:35 ◼ ► lot of you want to be writers and are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1715">TS</a>]
00:28:38 ◼ ► trying to figure out how to break in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1718">TS</a>]
00:28:39 ◼ ► business so if you've got questions ask [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1719">TS</a>]
00:28:41 ◼ ► me I will answer him I will tell you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1721">TS</a>]
00:28:45 ◼ ► interesting discussion this whole coffee [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1725">TS</a>]
00:28:46 ◼ ► table and and we were done I was talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1726">TS</a>]
00:28:49 ◼ ► to Mike a little bit and he said like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1729">TS</a>]
00:28:50 ◼ ► yeah you seem like a like a nice guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1730">TS</a>]
00:28:51 ◼ ► like you seem very like approachable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1731">TS</a>]
00:28:54 ◼ ► very personable like you can talk to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1734">TS</a>]
00:28:55 ◼ ► people whole like and you you know we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1735">TS</a>]
00:28:59 ◼ ► talked a little bit about like my book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1739">TS</a>]
00:29:00 ◼ ► and stuff and then his agent was man [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1740">TS</a>]
00:29:02 ◼ ► named Joshua Vilnius walked up and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1742">TS</a>]
00:29:04 ◼ ► Joshua reps some pretty well-known [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1744">TS</a>]
00:29:07 ◼ ► including Charlaine Harris who wrote the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1747">TS</a>]
00:29:09 ◼ ► stuff that True Blood is based on and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1749">TS</a>]
00:29:11 ◼ ► brand recently very very well-known [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1751">TS</a>]
00:29:13 ◼ ► fancy author and Joshua and I started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1753">TS</a>]
00:29:15 ◼ ► talking and I mentioned it was very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1755">TS</a>]
00:29:17 ◼ ► helpful at that point mentioned I'm a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1757">TS</a>]
00:29:19 ◼ ► full time writer I'm a professional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1759">TS</a>]
00:29:20 ◼ ► writer right for a technology magazine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1760">TS</a>]
00:29:22 ◼ ► and we ended up chatting for a while and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1762">TS</a>]
00:29:27 ◼ ► interested in like picking my brain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1767">TS</a>]
00:29:28 ◼ ► about technology stuff too and we had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1768">TS</a>]
00:29:30 ◼ ► some common interests we both avid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1770">TS</a>]
00:29:32 ◼ ► crossword doers and so we talked for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1772">TS</a>]
00:29:35 ◼ ► while and at the end I said hey you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1775">TS</a>]
00:29:36 ◼ ► I've got this book I would love to send [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1776">TS</a>]
00:29:38 ◼ ► it to you can I do that he said sure and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1778">TS</a>]
00:29:39 ◼ ► he gave me his card night I sent it off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1779">TS</a>]
00:29:41 ◼ ► and he eventually read it and sent me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1781">TS</a>]
00:29:45 ◼ ► back a whole bunch of comments and his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1785">TS</a>]
00:29:50 ◼ ► comments were sort of like I've cut my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1790">TS</a>]
00:29:52 ◼ ► am look at the email now cuz I'm super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1792">TS</a>]
00:29:53 ◼ ► curious to say what he said at the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1793">TS</a>]
00:29:54 ◼ ► it's like yeah it was it was really nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1794">TS</a>]
00:29:57 ◼ ► to meet you I really get into the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1797">TS</a>]
00:30:00 ◼ ► and then he talked about sort of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1800">TS</a>]
00:30:03 ◼ ► you know he thought there was promise in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1803">TS</a>]
00:30:06 ◼ ► it and he thought like I could put some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1806">TS</a>]
00:30:07 ◼ ► sentences together there was just some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1807">TS</a>]
00:30:11 ◼ ► there were stuff that need to be cut [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1811">TS</a>]
00:30:13 ◼ ► there was deadweight there was you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1813">TS</a>]
00:30:15 ◼ ► stuff that was just kind of overwrought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1815">TS</a>]
00:30:18 ◼ ► and sort of killed his interest in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1818">TS</a>]
00:30:20 ◼ ► and he said like well you know what this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1820">TS</a>]
00:30:23 ◼ ► this isn't problems here but there's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1823">TS</a>]
00:30:25 ◼ ► know I looked at some of the other stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1825">TS</a>]
00:30:26 ◼ ► and it seems like there's some promise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1826">TS</a>]
00:30:29 ◼ ► so you know work on it I'd be interested [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1829">TS</a>]
00:30:31 ◼ ► to take another look at some point now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1831">TS</a>]
00:30:34 ◼ ► that's huge I don't know you know to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1834">TS</a>]
00:30:37 ◼ ► talk to our audience for a second if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1837">TS</a>]
00:30:38 ◼ ► you've ever tried to write into an agent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1838">TS</a>]
00:30:40 ◼ ► and submit a manuscript most of the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1840">TS</a>]
00:30:42 ◼ ► the best you can hope for is like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1842">TS</a>]
00:30:44 ◼ ► pretty you know form response is just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1844">TS</a>]
00:30:46 ◼ ► like sorry this wasn't for me and I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1846">TS</a>]
00:30:49 ◼ ► gotten my fair share of those both on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1849">TS</a>]
00:30:50 ◼ ► the editorial submissions as well as on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1850">TS</a>]
00:30:54 ◼ ► agents you know agent queries and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1854">TS</a>]
00:30:57 ◼ ► know that's kind of disheartening right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1857">TS</a>]
00:30:59 ◼ ► like you know even if it's just it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1859">TS</a>]
00:31:01 ◼ ► for me it makes you feel it's rejection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1861">TS</a>]
00:31:02 ◼ ► right it's a bummer but to get something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1862">TS</a>]
00:31:08 ◼ ► acceptance at least a I read this here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1868">TS</a>]
00:31:11 ◼ ► are bunch and I'm looking at this email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1871">TS</a>]
00:31:12 ◼ ► it's fairly long it's like a page long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1872">TS</a>]
00:31:14 ◼ ► and so you know with specific notes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1874">TS</a>]
00:31:17 ◼ ► about things to look at and the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1877">TS</a>]
00:31:21 ◼ ► one who is as busy as he is took the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1881">TS</a>]
00:31:29 ◼ ► generous and like incredibly you know he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1889">TS</a>]
00:31:33 ◼ ► was willing to commit his time to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1893">TS</a>]
00:31:34 ◼ ► that and that is HUGE because it gave me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1894">TS</a>]
00:31:37 ◼ ► something to say like I all right yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1897">TS</a>]
00:31:39 ◼ ► work that needs to be done here I can go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1899">TS</a>]
00:31:41 ◼ ► back and I can keep working on this and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1901">TS</a>]
00:31:43 ◼ ► he might be willing to look at another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1903">TS</a>]
00:31:46 ◼ ► draft on somebody who knows about novels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1906">TS</a>]
00:31:49 ◼ ► and how they were right and and and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1909">TS</a>]
00:31:51 ◼ ► know he's viewing a also slightly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1911">TS</a>]
00:31:53 ◼ ► different perspective which is he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1913">TS</a>]
00:31:55 ◼ ► viewing from the perspective not just if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1915">TS</a>]
00:31:57 ◼ ► somebody who doesn't have any reason to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1917">TS</a>]
00:31:58 ◼ ► tell you that they're like your book but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1918">TS</a>]
00:32:01 ◼ ► also he's thinking not just if a novel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1921">TS</a>]
00:32:03 ◼ ► he likes he's thinking of novels that he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1923">TS</a>]
00:32:05 ◼ ► knows that have sold right and he's he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1925">TS</a>]
00:32:08 ◼ ► also yeah he's also looking at you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1928">TS</a>]
00:32:11 ◼ ► sometimes it's about the book but a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1931">TS</a>]
00:32:13 ◼ ► of times it's usually about the writer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1933">TS</a>]
00:32:14 ◼ ► which is to say if a agent looks at a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1934">TS</a>]
00:32:17 ◼ ► book and thinks this book you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1937">TS</a>]
00:32:20 ◼ ► not for me but it's you know there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1940">TS</a>]
00:32:22 ◼ ► clearly something this provide this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1942">TS</a>]
00:32:23 ◼ ► person who promised are duly surprised [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1943">TS</a>]
00:32:25 ◼ ► like yeah you you sometimes they will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1945">TS</a>]
00:32:28 ◼ ► talk to you and work with you and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1948">TS</a>]
00:32:30 ◼ ► know like maybe say like not this but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1950">TS</a>]
00:32:31 ◼ ► like when you've got something else let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1951">TS</a>]
00:32:34 ◼ ► and so because they're looking you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1954">TS</a>]
00:32:36 ◼ ► a good agent is looking for someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1956">TS</a>]
00:32:39 ◼ ► who's gonna have a career right like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1959">TS</a>]
00:32:41 ◼ ► they don't want to sell a book they want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1961">TS</a>]
00:32:42 ◼ ► to sell a lot of books like and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1962">TS</a>]
00:32:44 ◼ ► want you to have a long career in which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1964">TS</a>]
00:32:47 ◼ ► you're gonna sell a bunch of books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1967">TS</a>]
00:32:48 ◼ ► because that's how they make their money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1968">TS</a>]
00:32:49 ◼ ► right like they make a commission on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1969">TS</a>]
00:32:50 ◼ ► selling stuff right so they it's in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1970">TS</a>]
00:32:52 ◼ ► their best interest for you to have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1972">TS</a>]
00:32:54 ◼ ► long and fruitful writing career in fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1974">TS</a>]
00:32:56 ◼ ► it seems to me that that the business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1976">TS</a>]
00:32:58 ◼ ► model of many agents including yours is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1978">TS</a>]
00:33:00 ◼ ► you place a bunch of bets and absolutely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1980">TS</a>]
00:33:03 ◼ ► and some of them will hit and you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1983">TS</a>]
00:33:05 ◼ ► your Brandon Sanderson and some of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1985">TS</a>]
00:33:08 ◼ ► won't know they'll write they'll be okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1988">TS</a>]
00:33:09 ◼ ► or they'll write a couple of books and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1989">TS</a>]
00:33:11 ◼ ► they won't really go anywhere but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1991">TS</a>]
00:33:12 ◼ ► place the bets you find people that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1992">TS</a>]
00:33:14 ◼ ► want to place a bet on and then see what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1994">TS</a>]
00:33:17 ◼ ► happens yeah I mean it's a lot like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1997">TS</a>]
00:33:19 ◼ ► a lot like a lot of the entertainment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/1999">TS</a>]
00:33:21 ◼ ► industry like think about movies right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2001">TS</a>]
00:33:22 ◼ ► studios put out a bunch of movies a year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2002">TS</a>]
00:33:24 ◼ ► and they have those tentpoles where it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2004">TS</a>]
00:33:26 ◼ ► like this is our like big blockbuster or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2006">TS</a>]
00:33:28 ◼ ► summer blockbuster it's going to make a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2008">TS</a>]
00:33:30 ◼ ► ton of money and we're going to use that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2010">TS</a>]
00:33:32 ◼ ► to essentially fund a lot of our other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2012">TS</a>]
00:33:35 ◼ ► yes that are maybe not going to make as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2015">TS</a>]
00:33:36 ◼ ► much money and so you know if you have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2016">TS</a>]
00:33:39 ◼ ► huge client who does really well that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2019">TS</a>]
00:33:41 ◼ ► enables you to take chances on new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2021">TS</a>]
00:33:42 ◼ ► people and yeah like you said that might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2022">TS</a>]
00:33:45 ◼ ► pay off you might find the next Brandon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2025">TS</a>]
00:33:46 ◼ ► Sanderson you might find the next George [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2026">TS</a>]
00:33:48 ◼ ► are Martin rights how you do it no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2028">TS</a>]
00:33:49 ◼ ► that's how you do it you can find start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2029">TS</a>]
00:33:51 ◼ ► and find talent and and identify it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2031">TS</a>]
00:33:53 ◼ ► and so he gave you he gave you feedback [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2033">TS</a>]
00:33:55 ◼ ► that let you go away and I mean I I did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2035">TS</a>]
00:33:58 ◼ ► something similar because I paid Saladin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2038">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► Ahmed for a for a critique of my most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:04 ◼ ► recent manuscript in it similarly it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2044">TS</a>]
00:34:06 ◼ ► like it was a lot about this is too much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2046">TS</a>]
00:34:08 ◼ ► you got too much detail here this is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2048">TS</a>]
00:34:10 ◼ ► waste you need to delete this you need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2050">TS</a>]
00:34:11 ◼ ► to change this and it was great because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2051">TS</a>]
00:34:13 ◼ ► again same thing right he has no reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2053">TS</a>]
00:34:15 ◼ ► to do anything except give me the truth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2055">TS</a>]
00:34:17 ◼ ► and that's what I wanted from somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2057">TS</a>]
00:34:19 ◼ ► who's written an award-winning novel and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2059">TS</a>]
00:34:21 ◼ ► has taught creative writing and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2061">TS</a>]
00:34:23 ◼ ► like it's super valuable to get that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2063">TS</a>]
00:34:24 ◼ ► perspective so you take it away and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2064">TS</a>]
00:34:27 ◼ ► then you spend how much time working on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2067">TS</a>]
00:34:30 ◼ ► the book after that a couple years yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2070">TS</a>]
00:34:33 ◼ ► because we saw we stayed in touch which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2073">TS</a>]
00:34:35 ◼ ► is great because he would send me emails [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2075">TS</a>]
00:34:36 ◼ ► every once a while like often not about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2076">TS</a>]
00:34:38 ◼ ► book stuff at all he was some emails [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2078">TS</a>]
00:34:39 ◼ ► about Matt like Apple stuff like because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2079">TS</a>]
00:34:41 ◼ ► he'd see you know me writing about you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2081">TS</a>]
00:34:43 ◼ ► know whatever announcements came out and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2083">TS</a>]
00:34:45 ◼ ► he would just shoot me these aleem ales [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2085">TS</a>]
00:34:47 ◼ ► well I got what do you think about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2087">TS</a>]
00:34:48 ◼ ► thing or we talk about crosswords or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2088">TS</a>]
00:34:50 ◼ ► stuff so like we end up kind of becoming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2090">TS</a>]
00:34:51 ◼ ► friends which was nice and then every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2091">TS</a>]
00:34:53 ◼ ► once awhile I would have a new draft and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2093">TS</a>]
00:34:55 ◼ ► I would send it over to him but I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2095">TS</a>]
00:34:56 ◼ ► I you know it was basically back and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2096">TS</a>]
00:34:57 ◼ ► forth until I want to say it was 2015 it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2097">TS</a>]
00:35:02 ◼ ► was only a couple years ago at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2102">TS</a>]
00:35:04 ◼ ► point that I'd gone back and forth with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2104">TS</a>]
00:35:06 ◼ ► him and one of his other agents at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2106">TS</a>]
00:35:09 ◼ ► agency a Sam Morgan who is since left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2109">TS</a>]
00:35:11 ◼ ► the agency and is off doing his own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2111">TS</a>]
00:35:13 ◼ ► literary agent enough elsewhere and Sam [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2113">TS</a>]
00:35:16 ◼ ► Joshua both gave me a bunch of great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2116">TS</a>]
00:35:19 ◼ ► like you know feedback as I went through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2119">TS</a>]
00:35:21 ◼ ► the drafts but it was it was a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2121">TS</a>]
00:35:23 ◼ ► years until I think it was summer 2015 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2123">TS</a>]
00:35:26 ◼ ► that I finally got the call like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2126">TS</a>]
00:35:28 ◼ ► know what we we read this last draft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2128">TS</a>]
00:35:30 ◼ ► there's a couple minor things we want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2130">TS</a>]
00:35:32 ◼ ► tweak but we think on the basis of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2132">TS</a>]
00:35:33 ◼ ► it's good enough that we we'd love to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2133">TS</a>]
00:35:35 ◼ ► have you as a client and that was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2135">TS</a>]
00:35:39 ◼ ► was probably like you know there's a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2139">TS</a>]
00:35:41 ◼ ► of moments where you get to like feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2141">TS</a>]
00:35:42 ◼ ► like take the win right like celebrate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2142">TS</a>]
00:35:44 ◼ ► and I think that was for me that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2144">TS</a>]
00:35:45 ◼ ► really the first one where it was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2145">TS</a>]
00:35:47 ◼ ► I have not only did I get that that call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2147">TS</a>]
00:35:49 ◼ ► to say you know we want to bring you on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2149">TS</a>]
00:35:51 ◼ ► and we're going to try to sell this but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2151">TS</a>]
00:35:53 ◼ ► you know it was a testament to the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2153">TS</a>]
00:35:55 ◼ ► that my butt off for like two years you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2155">TS</a>]
00:35:58 ◼ ► know making all these changes and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2158">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► revising and to it was a it was proof to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:02 ◼ ► me that I could not only sit down and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2162">TS</a>]
00:36:05 ◼ ► write a novel as I did like finishing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2165">TS</a>]
00:36:06 ◼ ► that first one but that I could actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2166">TS</a>]
00:36:08 ◼ ► then do the hard work because writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2168">TS</a>]
00:36:12 ◼ ► you know putting one word in front of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2172">TS</a>]
00:36:14 ◼ ► the other seems hard but really it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2174">TS</a>]
00:36:15 ◼ ► it's figuring out what order to put them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2175">TS</a>]
00:36:17 ◼ ► in as I always say and so the amount of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2177">TS</a>]
00:36:20 ◼ ► time you spent like writing that first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2180">TS</a>]
00:36:22 ◼ ► novel you know rewriting it is gonna be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2182">TS</a>]
00:36:23 ◼ ► more probably and it's harder if it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2183">TS</a>]
00:36:25 ◼ ► feels harder to be way harder it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2185">TS</a>]
00:36:28 ◼ ► playing Jenga right like it's like oh my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2188">TS</a>]
00:36:29 ◼ ► god if I take this brick out right here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2189">TS</a>]
00:36:31 ◼ ► with this whole thing fell fall over and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2191">TS</a>]
00:36:33 ◼ ► I think I tried to talk a little bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2193">TS</a>]
00:36:36 ◼ ► about this in a talk I did once at a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2196">TS</a>]
00:36:37 ◼ ► singleton the conference in Montreal but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2197">TS</a>]
00:36:40 ◼ ► like it's it's trying to get yourself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2200">TS</a>]
00:36:42 ◼ ► out of that mindset that like oh my my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2202">TS</a>]
00:36:45 ◼ ► story is this delicate spiderweb and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2205">TS</a>]
00:36:48 ◼ ► I break this one strand the whole thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2208">TS</a>]
00:36:50 ◼ ► will fall apart and trying to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2210">TS</a>]
00:36:52 ◼ ► yourself more into the mindset of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2212">TS</a>]
00:36:54 ◼ ► story is like a like a piece of iron [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2214">TS</a>]
00:36:56 ◼ ► that is being worked in a forge right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2216">TS</a>]
00:36:58 ◼ ► where you're hammering on it to make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2218">TS</a>]
00:37:00 ◼ ► like temper it to make it stronger than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2220">TS</a>]
00:37:04 ◼ ► originally rightly you take a sword and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2224">TS</a>]
00:37:05 ◼ ► it's all about folding the metal and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2225">TS</a>]
00:37:09 ◼ ► reinforce it to the point where it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2229">TS</a>]
00:37:10 ◼ ► like it's not going to break immediately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2230">TS</a>]
00:37:12 ◼ ► and you can hammer on something pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2232">TS</a>]
00:37:13 ◼ ► hard and and try to sort of work it into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2233">TS</a>]
00:37:16 ◼ ► the right shape and and that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2236">TS</a>]
00:37:19 ◼ ► what you're going for when you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2239">TS</a>]
00:37:20 ◼ ► rewriting and otherwise like you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2240">TS</a>]
00:37:23 ◼ ► sort of get paralyzed with fear that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2243">TS</a>]
00:37:25 ◼ ► anything that you change will break [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2245">TS</a>]
00:37:27 ◼ ► everything yeah and it's not the case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2247">TS</a>]
00:37:29 ◼ ► stories are pretty resilient in that way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2249">TS</a>]
00:37:30 ◼ ► and you can always fix it is the good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2250">TS</a>]
00:37:32 ◼ ► news you got to be bold you got and yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2252">TS</a>]
00:37:34 ◼ ► that's the goods to your kill your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2254">TS</a>]
00:37:35 ◼ ► darlings thing to would you gold and not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2255">TS</a>]
00:37:38 ◼ ► be afraid that you're gonna roll over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2258">TS</a>]
00:37:39 ◼ ► something that maybe something you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2259">TS</a>]
00:37:40 ◼ ► really proud of and but it doesn't fit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2260">TS</a>]
00:37:42 ◼ ► and so you just got to be I'm just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2262">TS</a>]
00:37:44 ◼ ► passionate about like it's gone yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2264">TS</a>]
00:37:46 ◼ ► yeah I mean sometimes there are things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2266">TS</a>]
00:37:48 ◼ ► that you should fight for that are good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2268">TS</a>]
00:37:49 ◼ ► and you know they're good and you got to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2269">TS</a>]
00:37:50 ◼ ► trust your gut and say like no this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2270">TS</a>]
00:37:51 ◼ ► good I need to find a way to make this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2271">TS</a>]
00:37:53 ◼ ► work but yeah you can't get hung up on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2273">TS</a>]
00:37:56 ◼ ► that one thing that is preventing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2276">TS</a>]
00:37:58 ◼ ► everything else from working right like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2278">TS</a>]
00:38:00 ◼ ► thing preventing the rest of the story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2280">TS</a>]
00:38:02 ◼ ► from working that's got to go but if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2282">TS</a>]
00:38:04 ◼ ► it's one thing that's like oh it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2284">TS</a>]
00:38:05 ◼ ► doesn't quite fit then you know figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2285">TS</a>]
00:38:07 ◼ ► out a way to make it fit yeah but two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2287">TS</a>]
00:38:11 ◼ ► years yeah so two years until I got the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2291">TS</a>]
00:38:13 ◼ ► the deal for that I think actually you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2293">TS</a>]
00:38:15 ◼ ► know what that must have been right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2295">TS</a>]
00:38:16 ◼ ► before that was right before we were all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2296">TS</a>]
00:38:20 ◼ ► at sass one yeah 2015 right because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2300">TS</a>]
00:38:23 ◼ ► met I met your agents and getting a task [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2303">TS</a>]
00:38:29 ◼ ► what do you have in nonfiction I'm like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2309">TS</a>]
00:38:31 ◼ ► all I got a signed sci-fi novels - I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2311">TS</a>]
00:38:34 ◼ ► don't have any nonfiction for you it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2314">TS</a>]
00:38:35 ◼ ► like I'm really excited about a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2315">TS</a>]
00:38:36 ◼ ► about like a nonfiction narrative I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2316">TS</a>]
00:38:38 ◼ ► like oh man I can't yeah I I keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2318">TS</a>]
00:38:41 ◼ ► thinking about it like I was fine I'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2321">TS</a>]
00:38:43 ◼ ► have anything for that he's a he's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2323">TS</a>]
00:38:44 ◼ ► character it was fun meeting those guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2324">TS</a>]
00:38:46 ◼ ► and yes you got to go there and at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2326">TS</a>]
00:38:48 ◼ ► be repped by an agent right yep and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2328">TS</a>]
00:38:51 ◼ ► but the process wasn't over because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2331">TS</a>]
00:38:53 ◼ ► had to make changes and things like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2333">TS</a>]
00:38:54 ◼ ► and then they had to go through the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2334">TS</a>]
00:38:55 ◼ ► process of trying to sell your book yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2335">TS</a>]
00:38:57 ◼ ► and that's another whole long one - yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2337">TS</a>]
00:39:00 ◼ ► it's always like one it's like a video [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2340">TS</a>]
00:39:01 ◼ ► game level you beat that level the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2341">TS</a>]
00:39:03 ◼ ► level is harder right yeah and so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2343">TS</a>]
00:39:05 ◼ ► know that basically involves sending out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2345">TS</a>]
00:39:07 ◼ ► you know they craft a query letter which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2347">TS</a>]
00:39:09 ◼ ► is basically kind of a lot like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2349">TS</a>]
00:39:11 ◼ ► thing that you send to an agent right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2351">TS</a>]
00:39:12 ◼ ► when you're when you're trying to pitch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2352">TS</a>]
00:39:13 ◼ ► your book to them and but obviously they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2353">TS</a>]
00:39:16 ◼ ► have a little more experience of doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2356">TS</a>]
00:39:17 ◼ ► this and they have relationships with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2357">TS</a>]
00:39:18 ◼ ► editors which is great and so we spent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2358">TS</a>]
00:39:20 ◼ ► some time working on a query letter for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2360">TS</a>]
00:39:22 ◼ ► the story you know full plot synopsis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2362">TS</a>]
00:39:24 ◼ ► describing it talking about me a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2364">TS</a>]
00:39:26 ◼ ► bit and then sending that out to a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2366">TS</a>]
00:39:28 ◼ ► editors and then you get the long period [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2368">TS</a>]
00:39:30 ◼ ► of waiting for the editors to get back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2370">TS</a>]
00:39:31 ◼ ► and this is basically very similar to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2371">TS</a>]
00:39:34 ◼ ► like sending stuff out to agents which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2374">TS</a>]
00:39:35 ◼ ► is to say most editors are going to turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2375">TS</a>]
00:39:38 ◼ ► you down could be for a variety of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2378">TS</a>]
00:39:40 ◼ ► reasons they might again maybe it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2380">TS</a>]
00:39:42 ◼ ► not a story that resonates with them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2382">TS</a>]
00:39:44 ◼ ► maybe it just doesn't fit in with like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2384">TS</a>]
00:39:47 ◼ ► their their what they're working on or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2387">TS</a>]
00:39:49 ◼ ► their marketing or their style or tone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2389">TS</a>]
00:39:51 ◼ ► any variety of things maybe they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2391">TS</a>]
00:39:54 ◼ ► who knows and so we went through a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2394">TS</a>]
00:39:58 ◼ ► maybe somewhere between 10 15 different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2398">TS</a>]
00:40:02 ◼ ► publishers before we found the deal that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2402">TS</a>]
00:40:05 ◼ ► we wanted and I should mention actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2405">TS</a>]
00:40:07 ◼ ► as an interesting part of this which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2407">TS</a>]
00:40:08 ◼ ► something I forget sometimes probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2408">TS</a>]
00:40:14 ◼ ► the first draft of this and actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2414">TS</a>]
00:40:18 ◼ ► getting signed by an agent I at one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2418">TS</a>]
00:40:22 ◼ ► point submitted this to the small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2422">TS</a>]
00:40:26 ◼ ► uh-huh and they had a everyone smile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2426">TS</a>]
00:40:28 ◼ ► they hold open submissions and I sent my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2428">TS</a>]
00:40:30 ◼ ► book in for that and it got to the point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2430">TS</a>]
00:40:32 ◼ ► of they requested the whole manuscript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2432">TS</a>]
00:40:35 ◼ ► and and they did not eventually like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2435">TS</a>]
00:40:40 ◼ ► know offer to buy it but they you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2440">TS</a>]
00:40:43 ◼ ► it got pretty far in that process and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2443">TS</a>]
00:40:44 ◼ ► then some books came out I think um I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2444">TS</a>]
00:40:46 ◼ ► think was choose uh lives of Tao came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2446">TS</a>]
00:40:49 ◼ ► out of that so you know like their books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2449">TS</a>]
00:40:52 ◼ ► real books came out of that so I felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2452">TS</a>]
00:40:54 ◼ ► like heartened by that that even though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2454">TS</a>]
00:40:56 ◼ ► they didn't want to buy it like it had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2456">TS</a>]
00:40:58 ◼ ► you know again past a certain sniff test [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2458">TS</a>]
00:41:00 ◼ ► so that was exciting and in fact we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2460">TS</a>]
00:41:03 ◼ ► submitted to them you know when we were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2463">TS</a>]
00:41:05 ◼ ► doing eight submissions editorial they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2465">TS</a>]
00:41:07 ◼ ► still didn't buy it but hey that's fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2467">TS</a>]
00:41:09 ◼ ► I like that's already yeah right someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2469">TS</a>]
00:41:12 ◼ ► that actually I feel like maybe some of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2472">TS</a>]
00:41:13 ◼ ► them do you remember it I don't know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2473">TS</a>]
00:41:15 ◼ ► felt like it got better in that time but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2475">TS</a>]
00:41:17 ◼ ► yeah you know not to get too much down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2477">TS</a>]
00:41:19 ◼ ► the weeds of the editorial process but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2479">TS</a>]
00:41:21 ◼ ► you get a lot of comments back I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2481">TS</a>]
00:41:22 ◼ ► some very nice comments by people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2482">TS</a>]
00:41:23 ◼ ► are like oh man I really there's things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2483">TS</a>]
00:41:25 ◼ ► I really like about this but ultimately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2485">TS</a>]
00:41:27 ◼ ► I just it didn't work for me in some way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2487">TS</a>]
00:41:28 ◼ ► or you know and like that's depressing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2488">TS</a>]
00:41:30 ◼ ► too because you're like wait what didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2490">TS</a>]
00:41:32 ◼ ► work what didn't work what can I fix but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2492">TS</a>]
00:41:35 ◼ ► you know you're just looking for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2495">TS</a>]
00:41:36 ◼ ► right editor so what was the process of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2496">TS</a>]
00:41:39 ◼ ► finally you know did you get did you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2499">TS</a>]
00:41:42 ◼ ► offers and and how did you make that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2502">TS</a>]
00:41:45 ◼ ► know without getting you know I know you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2505">TS</a>]
00:41:46 ◼ ► don't one of the things you don't want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2506">TS</a>]
00:41:48 ◼ ► to disclose but like how did that had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2508">TS</a>]
00:41:49 ◼ ► the deal get made there we ended up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2509">TS</a>]
00:41:52 ◼ ► getting two offers both of which were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2512">TS</a>]
00:41:56 ◼ ► had their virtues and we ended up going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2516">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► with the author from Talos press which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:03 ◼ ► is a imprint of skyhorse and if just you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2523">TS</a>]
00:42:08 ◼ ► know some of that was was purely like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2528">TS</a>]
00:42:10 ◼ ► business decision in terms of like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2530">TS</a>]
00:42:12 ◼ ► know what they what the terms of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2532">TS</a>]
00:42:13 ◼ ► offer were and so you know I ended up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2533">TS</a>]
00:42:16 ◼ ► I'm working with a editor there named [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2536">TS</a>]
00:42:18 ◼ ► Jason Katzman and he seemed excited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2538">TS</a>]
00:42:21 ◼ ► about the book which was great and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2541">TS</a>]
00:42:26 ◼ ► you know Amina Bowl to all parties so we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2546">TS</a>]
00:42:28 ◼ ► signed that deal and at that point then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2548">TS</a>]
00:42:31 ◼ ► that's that's another good example of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2551">TS</a>]
00:42:33 ◼ ► you could you sign that deal and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2553">TS</a>]
00:42:35 ◼ ► like great I've signed a deal for a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2555">TS</a>]
00:42:36 ◼ ► when's my book come out and I sign that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2556">TS</a>]
00:42:38 ◼ ► deal like over a year ago you know so um [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2558">TS</a>]
00:42:42 ◼ ► so next tip is you know if you get to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2562">TS</a>]
00:42:46 ◼ ► keep working because otherwise you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2566">TS</a>]
00:42:51 ◼ ► you're gonna bask on you know basking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2571">TS</a>]
00:42:54 ◼ ► the Sun for a while about that and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2574">TS</a>]
00:42:55 ◼ ► realize wow this this deal this doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2575">TS</a>]
00:42:57 ◼ ► come out for a year and I'm not gonna I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2577">TS</a>]
00:43:00 ◼ ► can't just sit around and wait for it to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2580">TS</a>]
00:43:01 ◼ ► come out I gotta keep working otherwise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2581">TS</a>]
00:43:02 ◼ ► when it does come out I won't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2582">TS</a>]
00:43:04 ◼ ► anything else to like push forward so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2584">TS</a>]
00:43:06 ◼ ► this is where writing becomes like a job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2586">TS</a>]
00:43:08 ◼ ► because you know you can never quite sit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2588">TS</a>]
00:43:12 ◼ ► back and relax yeah you had to you had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2592">TS</a>]
00:43:15 ◼ ► to to keep working as it went through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2595">TS</a>]
00:43:17 ◼ ► the process I was gonna you mentioned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2597">TS</a>]
00:43:22 ◼ ► that there's a sequel I did did no are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2602">TS</a>]
00:43:27 ◼ ► you going against your own advice there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2607">TS</a>]
00:43:29 ◼ ► by writing another book in this universe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2609">TS</a>]
00:43:31 ◼ ► when you don't know how well this book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2611">TS</a>]
00:43:33 ◼ ► is going to do and later it's gonna hurt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2613">TS</a>]
00:43:34 ◼ ► a sequel I am 100% going against my own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2614">TS</a>]
00:43:37 ◼ ► advice yeah and I had written that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2617">TS</a>]
00:43:40 ◼ ► actually before I signed with the agency [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2620">TS</a>]
00:43:43 ◼ ► certainly because you read that too and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2623">TS</a>]
00:43:46 ◼ ► you had that I don't know when but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2626">TS</a>]
00:43:47 ◼ ► probably not too long after you read the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2627">TS</a>]
00:43:51 ◼ ► early versions of the Caledonian gambit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2631">TS</a>]
00:43:53 ◼ ► you probably read that it probably a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2633">TS</a>]
00:43:54 ◼ ► couple years later because I kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2634">TS</a>]
00:43:56 ◼ ► jumped in on that and I knew I shouldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2636">TS</a>]
00:43:57 ◼ ► but at the same time part of me felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2637">TS</a>]
00:43:59 ◼ ► like well these books are not it's not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2639">TS</a>]
00:44:02 ◼ ► trilogy it's not intended to be a like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2642">TS</a>]
00:44:04 ◼ ► beginning middle end of like books it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2644">TS</a>]
00:44:07 ◼ ► they're more episodic and so I thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2647">TS</a>]
00:44:11 ◼ ► to myself well you know I have an idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2651">TS</a>]
00:44:13 ◼ ► for a story and worst case scenario you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2653">TS</a>]
00:44:16 ◼ ► know if the first book doesn't do well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2656">TS</a>]
00:44:17 ◼ ► maybe I can redo this and make this the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2657">TS</a>]
00:44:19 ◼ ► first book or sell this first as lois [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2659">TS</a>]
00:44:21 ◼ ► mcmaster bujold did and so I kind of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2661">TS</a>]
00:44:24 ◼ ► know I guess my better judgment went and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2664">TS</a>]
00:44:25 ◼ ► did that and that book is still in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2665">TS</a>]
00:44:30 ◼ ► works I don't have too much else to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2670">TS</a>]
00:44:33 ◼ ► about it directly I'm still working on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2673">TS</a>]
00:44:39 ◼ ► be close to a draft I think that myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2679">TS</a>]
00:44:42 ◼ ► and my agent are both happy with which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2682">TS</a>]
00:44:44 ◼ ► is a good process and then some of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2684">TS</a>]
00:44:46 ◼ ► will depend on seeing how well the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2686">TS</a>]
00:44:48 ◼ ► Caledonian game it does so rest assured [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2688">TS</a>]
00:44:50 ◼ ► that if you've if you've read it and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2690">TS</a>]
00:44:51 ◼ ► like it there is potentially more to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2691">TS</a>]
00:44:54 ◼ ► come but obviously you know that depends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2694">TS</a>]
00:44:57 ◼ ► on how well the book does so you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2697">TS</a>]
00:44:59 ◼ ► tell your friends he'll ever tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2699">TS</a>]
00:45:00 ◼ ► everybody rated on Amazon rated on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2700">TS</a>]
00:45:02 ◼ ► Goodreads read reviews etc if you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2702">TS</a>]
00:45:05 ◼ ► it and you want to see more so that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2705">TS</a>]
00:45:06 ◼ ► how that works so let's talk a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2706">TS</a>]
00:45:08 ◼ ► bit about the book without without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2708">TS</a>]
00:45:09 ◼ ► spoiling it so that it's science fiction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2709">TS</a>]
00:45:11 ◼ ► it's you've got a can you talk a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2711">TS</a>]
00:45:14 ◼ ► about where this is set because it's got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2714">TS</a>]
00:45:17 ◼ ► a very particular as these space operas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2717">TS</a>]
00:45:19 ◼ ► often do it's got a very particular kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2719">TS</a>]
00:45:21 ◼ ► of politics set up that is you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2721">TS</a>]
00:45:27 ◼ ► like geopolitics except instead it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2727">TS</a>]
00:45:29 ◼ ► Galactus politics collect a political I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2729">TS</a>]
00:45:32 ◼ ► as I call it was kind of a mouthful yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2732">TS</a>]
00:45:35 ◼ ► this is set in said well I'm working you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2735">TS</a>]
00:45:39 ◼ ► know the timeline is not specified in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2739">TS</a>]
00:45:40 ◼ ► the first book but it's a few hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2740">TS</a>]
00:45:42 ◼ ► years in the future the galaxy has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2742">TS</a>]
00:45:45 ◼ ► expanded there are still this is kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2745">TS</a>]
00:45:47 ◼ ► notable they're still like humans in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2747">TS</a>]
00:45:49 ◼ ► this in this galaxy it's so you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2749">TS</a>]
00:45:53 ◼ ► there are no aliens the worlds that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2753">TS</a>]
00:45:55 ◼ ► been settled are mainly connected via [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2755">TS</a>]
00:45:58 ◼ ► wormholes and there are these gates that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2758">TS</a>]
00:46:01 ◼ ► sort of prop the wormholes open and let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2761">TS</a>]
00:46:02 ◼ ► you travel between these solar systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2762">TS</a>]
00:46:04 ◼ ► and over the last twenty years or so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2764">TS</a>]
00:46:07 ◼ ► there's been this cold war going on and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2767">TS</a>]
00:46:10 ◼ ► I mean it started it started as an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2770">TS</a>]
00:46:13 ◼ ► actual war this the lyric and Empire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2773">TS</a>]
00:46:17 ◼ ► invaded this was a group of former Earth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2777">TS</a>]
00:46:21 ◼ ► colonists and they sort of were ticked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2781">TS</a>]
00:46:25 ◼ ► off by the way they felt like they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2785">TS</a>]
00:46:26 ◼ ► been treated by earth and so they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2786">TS</a>]
00:46:28 ◼ ► invaded earth and took over the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2788">TS</a>]
00:46:30 ◼ ► colonies several of the other colonies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2790">TS</a>]
00:46:32 ◼ ► including the planet caldonia which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2792">TS</a>]
00:46:34 ◼ ► obviously in the title and which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2794">TS</a>]
00:46:36 ◼ ► where our protagonist is from and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2796">TS</a>]
00:46:38 ◼ ► over time it sort of settled into this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2798">TS</a>]
00:46:40 ◼ ► cold war where the remnants the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2800">TS</a>]
00:46:43 ◼ ► who are not conquered by the lyric ins [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2803">TS</a>]
00:46:46 ◼ ► have sort of formed formed this ad-hoc [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2806">TS</a>]
00:46:48 ◼ ► commonwealth of independent systems to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2808">TS</a>]
00:46:52 ◼ ► and the way that it's sort of shaken out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2812">TS</a>]
00:46:54 ◼ ► is that they they end up you know kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2814">TS</a>]
00:46:56 ◼ ► of in one of these Cold War mutually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2816">TS</a>]
00:46:58 ◼ ► assured destruction scenarios where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2818">TS</a>]
00:47:00 ◼ ► they've got these two superpowers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2820">TS</a>]
00:47:02 ◼ ► they're kind of staring each other down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2822">TS</a>]
00:47:03 ◼ ► but right now everything is kind of calm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2823">TS</a>]
00:47:08 ◼ ► before the storm so there's there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2828">TS</a>]
00:47:12 ◼ ► open warfare but there are occasionally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2832">TS</a>]
00:47:14 ◼ ► maybe some skirmishes and of course it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2834">TS</a>]
00:47:16 ◼ ► gives us a great opportunity for spies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2836">TS</a>]
00:47:18 ◼ ► and covert agents to do all their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2838">TS</a>]
00:47:20 ◼ ► sneaking around right so it's you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2840">TS</a>]
00:47:22 ◼ ► the sense that maybe there's a there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2842">TS</a>]
00:47:24 ◼ ► change on the horizon but for now a cold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2844">TS</a>]
00:47:26 ◼ ► war there's a balance of power that at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2846">TS</a>]
00:47:28 ◼ ► least temporarily has been put in place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2848">TS</a>]
00:47:30 ◼ ► between these two factions of humans who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2850">TS</a>]
00:47:34 ◼ ► have different collections of plants now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2854">TS</a>]
00:47:35 ◼ ► Caledonia you mentioned one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2855">TS</a>]
00:47:37 ◼ ► concepts I think and correct me if I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2857">TS</a>]
00:47:40 ◼ ► wrong here that is that a lot of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2860">TS</a>]
00:47:41 ◼ ► planets what ends up happening is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2861">TS</a>]
00:47:43 ◼ ► there are colonists that that colonize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2863">TS</a>]
00:47:45 ◼ ► them that are at least in some cases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2865">TS</a>]
00:47:48 ◼ ► largely from particular nations on earth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2868">TS</a>]
00:47:51 ◼ ► and so you end up with kind of you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2871">TS</a>]
00:47:53 ◼ ► a planet with a more homogeneous culture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2873">TS</a>]
00:47:57 ◼ ► than you might otherwise expect is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2877">TS</a>]
00:47:58 ◼ ► right because Caledonia seems to be has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2878">TS</a>]
00:48:00 ◼ ► a strong Irish Scottish kind of flavor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2880">TS</a>]
00:48:04 ◼ ► to it yeah and in this case a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2884">TS</a>]
00:48:06 ◼ ► that comes from the people who were the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2886">TS</a>]
00:48:08 ◼ ► founders of the colony and therefore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2888">TS</a>]
00:48:09 ◼ ► were like kind of had a vested interest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2889">TS</a>]
00:48:11 ◼ ► in pushing their own cultural agenda and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2891">TS</a>]
00:48:16 ◼ ► it's not to say that there aren't people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2896">TS</a>]
00:48:17 ◼ ► from all you know all Heritage's and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2897">TS</a>]
00:48:21 ◼ ► backgrounds but just that that has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2901">TS</a>]
00:48:23 ◼ ► evolved to become and sort of like with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2903">TS</a>]
00:48:26 ◼ ► with with some melange from some other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2906">TS</a>]
00:48:28 ◼ ► cultures but it sort of evolved to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2908">TS</a>]
00:48:30 ◼ ► become the the main culture on that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2910">TS</a>]
00:48:33 ◼ ► planet and and yeah so that's it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2913">TS</a>]
00:48:37 ◼ ► result sort of of the unwanted the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2917">TS</a>]
00:48:38 ◼ ► ruling class but like sort of the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2918">TS</a>]
00:48:40 ◼ ► who were in the the upper echelons of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2920">TS</a>]
00:48:42 ◼ ► that that colony when it got settled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2922">TS</a>]
00:48:45 ◼ ► alright and so presumably other planets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2925">TS</a>]
00:48:48 ◼ ► have do do well are all planets in these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2928">TS</a>]
00:48:51 ◼ ► in this universe like that or are there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2931">TS</a>]
00:48:53 ◼ ► do they vary about whether they're super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2933">TS</a>]
00:48:55 ◼ ► very culturally tied or not at all I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2935">TS</a>]
00:48:57 ◼ ► would say they they largely vary there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2937">TS</a>]
00:49:00 ◼ ► are some with much more much stronger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2940">TS</a>]
00:49:03 ◼ ► cultural identities and then others [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2943">TS</a>]
00:49:05 ◼ ► which are more melting pots it really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2945">TS</a>]
00:49:09 ◼ ► depends on where you go and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2949">TS</a>]
00:49:12 ◼ ► sort of who is there first and all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2952">TS</a>]
00:49:13 ◼ ► ways those cultures to sort of evolve as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2953">TS</a>]
00:49:15 ◼ ► they go along but you know yeah in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2955">TS</a>]
00:49:17 ◼ ► we haven't we haven't spent too much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2957">TS</a>]
00:49:19 ◼ ► time on other planets you know in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2959">TS</a>]
00:49:24 ◼ ► first book really focuses largely on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2964">TS</a>]
00:49:26 ◼ ► caldonia and so they have a very very as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2966">TS</a>]
00:49:29 ◼ ► you said a very distinct culture which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2969">TS</a>]
00:49:30 ◼ ► is very heavily Celtic in origin now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2970">TS</a>]
00:49:34 ◼ ► I spent my a lot of time in Scotland and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2974">TS</a>]
00:49:36 ◼ ► Ireland at various points right and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2976">TS</a>]
00:49:38 ◼ ► enjoyed the culture of it and I wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2978">TS</a>]
00:49:40 ◼ ► to sort of work that into a yeah I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2980">TS</a>]
00:49:44 ◼ ► I again try not to give too much away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2984">TS</a>]
00:49:46 ◼ ► but also it has a little bit of a flavor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2986">TS</a>]
00:49:48 ◼ ► of they're there at a few points I got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2988">TS</a>]
00:49:51 ◼ ► flavor of like you know kind of IRA kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2991">TS</a>]
00:49:55 ◼ ► of right there's some there's a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2995">TS</a>]
00:49:58 ◼ ► bit of crime and maybe maybe there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2998">TS</a>]
00:49:59 ◼ ► little bit of terrorism and it's all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/2999">TS</a>]
00:50:02 ◼ ► just kind of hanging around there which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3002">TS</a>]
00:50:04 ◼ ► which that that was the flavor that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3004">TS</a>]
00:50:06 ◼ ► got out of yeah no absolutely that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3006">TS</a>]
00:50:08 ◼ ► that's that was another certainly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3008">TS</a>]
00:50:10 ◼ ► another influence as I said I did go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3010">TS</a>]
00:50:12 ◼ ► Ireland for a while after finishing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3012">TS</a>]
00:50:14 ◼ ► first book and I I did get to visit some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3014">TS</a>]
00:50:18 ◼ ► of the sites that are tied very closely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3018">TS</a>]
00:50:24 ◼ ► influenced my my thinking on that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3024">TS</a>]
00:50:27 ◼ ► evolution of that planet you go you go - [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3027">TS</a>]
00:50:29 ◼ ► yeah well that's right when I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3029">TS</a>]
00:50:30 ◼ ► thinking of Northern Ireland in the IRA [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3030">TS</a>]
00:50:31 ◼ ► but but you're right I think you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3031">TS</a>]
00:50:33 ◼ ► set you really can't go around a corner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3033">TS</a>]
00:50:35 ◼ ► in Ireland without running into some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3035">TS</a>]
00:50:38 ◼ ► monument for somebody who basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3038">TS</a>]
00:50:39 ◼ ► killed a lot of English people yep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3039">TS</a>]
00:50:41 ◼ ► English soldiers who were yeah that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3041">TS</a>]
00:50:44 ◼ ► that's that's part of the national [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3044">TS</a>]
00:50:47 ◼ ► identity there is throwing throwing off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3047">TS</a>]
00:50:48 ◼ ► the the English so um well what else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3048">TS</a>]
00:50:52 ◼ ► what else should people what else should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3052">TS</a>]
00:50:54 ◼ ► people know about the setting of this to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3054">TS</a>]
00:50:56 ◼ ► get them interested in reading this book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3056">TS</a>]
00:50:58 ◼ ► if they have not yet what do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3058">TS</a>]
00:51:00 ◼ ► um yeah I I think what intrigues me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3060">TS</a>]
00:51:04 ◼ ► about it I mentioned already that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3064">TS</a>]
00:51:05 ◼ ► people are all there this is all human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3065">TS</a>]
00:51:08 ◼ ► and I think that that's a big part of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3068">TS</a>]
00:51:09 ◼ ► for me as you know i I've read books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3069">TS</a>]
00:51:12 ◼ ► that I've enjoyed where aliens are done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3072">TS</a>]
00:51:14 ◼ ► very well but I have a lot of times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3074">TS</a>]
00:51:16 ◼ ► where I feel like sometimes you know you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3076">TS</a>]
00:51:19 ◼ ► Star Trek and like even next generation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3079">TS</a>]
00:51:20 ◼ ► and people are just like ah aliens you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3080">TS</a>]
00:51:22 ◼ ► know this is like people with funny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3082">TS</a>]
00:51:23 ◼ ► foreheads and something about that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3083">TS</a>]
00:51:25 ◼ ► always found a little off-putting and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3085">TS</a>]
00:51:27 ◼ ► I really wanted to like delve into that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3087">TS</a>]
00:51:29 ◼ ► and so you know that's a big part of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3089">TS</a>]
00:51:32 ◼ ► we've also got I think the the nature of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3092">TS</a>]
00:51:35 ◼ ► intersystem travel and how that setup [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3095">TS</a>]
00:51:37 ◼ ► works towards making this an interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3097">TS</a>]
00:51:42 ◼ ► universe because these things become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3102">TS</a>]
00:51:44 ◼ ► strategic like where you can get it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3104">TS</a>]
00:51:46 ◼ ► kind of like having bridges right like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3106">TS</a>]
00:51:48 ◼ ► where you can get and what the natural [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3108">TS</a>]
00:51:50 ◼ ► environment prevents you from doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3110">TS</a>]
00:51:52 ◼ ► makes a difference in terms of where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3112">TS</a>]
00:51:57 ◼ ► can easily like deploy military ships [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3117">TS</a>]
00:51:59 ◼ ► where are the lines drawn between these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3119">TS</a>]
00:52:02 ◼ ► different superpowers like how does that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3122">TS</a>]
00:52:04 ◼ ► play out in terms of getting people back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3124">TS</a>]
00:52:06 ◼ ► and forth across borders like I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3126">TS</a>]
00:52:09 ◼ ► that's to me that was interesting rather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3129">TS</a>]
00:52:11 ◼ ► than just having a much more open galaxy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3131">TS</a>]
00:52:14 ◼ ► like you might see in something like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3134">TS</a>]
00:52:15 ◼ ► Star Wars or Star Trek where it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3135">TS</a>]
00:52:16 ◼ ► well you know like there are some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3136">TS</a>]
00:52:17 ◼ ► political lines but like your your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3137">TS</a>]
00:52:19 ◼ ► faster-than-light technology whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3139">TS</a>]
00:52:23 ◼ ► essentially just whether or not you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3143">TS</a>]
00:52:25 ◼ ► should be there whereas in this it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3145">TS</a>]
00:52:26 ◼ ► like well there's only certain routes to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3146">TS</a>]
00:52:29 ◼ ► get between certain places so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3149">TS</a>]
00:52:31 ◼ ► becomes a matter of strategic importance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3151">TS</a>]
00:52:35 ◼ ► importance and its really it becomes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3155">TS</a>]
00:52:40 ◼ ► integral to this story too I like the I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3160">TS</a>]
00:52:42 ◼ ► like that it's strategic is the word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3162">TS</a>]
00:52:44 ◼ ► that I was searching for there to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3164">TS</a>]
00:52:46 ◼ ► with with the Vorkosigan books with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3166">TS</a>]
00:52:49 ◼ ► something like like Lost fleet is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3169">TS</a>]
00:52:52 ◼ ► the the new Empire series by Scalzi uses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3172">TS</a>]
00:52:57 ◼ ► this conceit of the you know jump gates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3177">TS</a>]
00:52:59 ◼ ► basically Babylon 5 there are lots of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3179">TS</a>]
00:53:01 ◼ ► examples of this but it does add that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3181">TS</a>]
00:53:03 ◼ ► strategic Geographic thing it also feels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3183">TS</a>]
00:53:07 ◼ ► a little bit like ticket to ride or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3187">TS</a>]
00:53:08 ◼ ► something like that right was like favor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3188">TS</a>]
00:53:10 ◼ ► sometimes by weird routes but it means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3190">TS</a>]
00:53:13 ◼ ► that you can cut somebody off and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3193">TS</a>]
00:53:14 ◼ ► everybody can just go everywhere it's uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3194">TS</a>]
00:53:17 ◼ ► it's that that's a different kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3197">TS</a>]
00:53:20 ◼ ► galactic political situation to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3200">TS</a>]
00:53:23 ◼ ► you're right right now full of a of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3203">TS</a>]
00:53:25 ◼ ► friends so but it is I would say I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3205">TS</a>]
00:53:27 ◼ ► haven't read this book several times in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3207">TS</a>]
00:53:29 ◼ ► several different forms that this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3209">TS</a>]
00:53:32 ◼ ► it what this book is I would say it is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3212">TS</a>]
00:53:35 ◼ ► story about human beings who and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3215">TS</a>]
00:53:39 ◼ ► their relationships with with each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3219">TS</a>]
00:53:41 ◼ ► set inside a thriller about things with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3221">TS</a>]
00:53:48 ◼ ► Galacta political consequences it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3228">TS</a>]
00:53:50 ◼ ► those are the shells for me it's like at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3230">TS</a>]
00:53:57 ◼ ► especially like familial relationships [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3237">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► and your main character is dealing with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:02 ◼ ► family history and baggage and cultural [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3242">TS</a>]
00:54:04 ◼ ► baggage and a and a planet that he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3244">TS</a>]
00:54:06 ◼ ► basically fled a home he fled for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3246">TS</a>]
00:54:10 ◼ ► reasons and then that's the core and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3250">TS</a>]
00:54:13 ◼ ► then just outside of that is there is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3253">TS</a>]
00:54:15 ◼ ► there is a spy action thriller kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3255">TS</a>]
00:54:18 ◼ ► plot that has to happen that he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3258">TS</a>]
00:54:19 ◼ ► involved with he gets caught up in and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3259">TS</a>]
00:54:21 ◼ ► then outside that is all of the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3261">TS</a>]
00:54:24 ◼ ► political ramifications on the galaxy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3264">TS</a>]
00:54:27 ◼ ► spanning scale of what's going on which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3267">TS</a>]
00:54:30 ◼ ► is a nice it's a nice little turducken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3270">TS</a>]
00:54:34 ◼ ► things happening there but people should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3274">TS</a>]
00:54:36 ◼ ► I'd say some people I think read a space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3276">TS</a>]
00:54:39 ◼ ► opera books for like galactic battles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3279">TS</a>]
00:54:42 ◼ ► and details of made-up made-up weapons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3282">TS</a>]
00:54:44 ◼ ► and made-up ships and things like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3284">TS</a>]
00:54:46 ◼ ► like tell me about this imaginary gun [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3286">TS</a>]
00:54:48 ◼ ► and how it fires and that's great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3288">TS</a>]
00:54:50 ◼ ► this is that you've got some you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3290">TS</a>]
00:54:52 ◼ ► you've got some tech you've got some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3292">TS</a>]
00:54:57 ◼ ► interesting stuff on that level but I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3297">TS</a>]
00:54:59 ◼ ► what I like about it is that at its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3299">TS</a>]
00:55:01 ◼ ► heart you've got human characters and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3301">TS</a>]
00:55:03 ◼ ► how they their baggage and how they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3303">TS</a>]
00:55:06 ◼ ► react to each other actually if you go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3306">TS</a>]
00:55:08 ◼ ► up the chain is going to affect the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3308">TS</a>]
00:55:10 ◼ ► future the galaxy and that's pretty cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3310">TS</a>]
00:55:12 ◼ ► right right well I mean that and that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3312">TS</a>]
00:55:14 ◼ ► what I set out to do it's because that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3314">TS</a>]
00:55:15 ◼ ► was one of the things I really loved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3315">TS</a>]
00:55:16 ◼ ► about the Vorkosigan saga and also about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3316">TS</a>]
00:55:18 ◼ ► stuff like um I really loved Timothy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3318">TS</a>]
00:55:21 ◼ ► I like people who are recognizable as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3321">TS</a>]
00:55:24 ◼ ► people the expanse does this really well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3324">TS</a>]
00:55:26 ◼ ► to you know people who are recognizable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3326">TS</a>]
00:55:28 ◼ ► as people and I've read some sci-fi that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3328">TS</a>]
00:55:31 ◼ ► is like we're you know like set so far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3331">TS</a>]
00:55:33 ◼ ► in the future and it's post singularity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3333">TS</a>]
00:55:35 ◼ ► and people aren't even human anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3335">TS</a>]
00:55:37 ◼ ► right like and that's one type of thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3337">TS</a>]
00:55:40 ◼ ► but it's not something that a that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3340">TS</a>]
00:55:41 ◼ ► speaks to me I wanted characters who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3341">TS</a>]
00:55:46 ◼ ► you know I I think you go you know for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3346">TS</a>]
00:55:49 ◼ ► 400 years in the future and people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3349">TS</a>]
00:55:51 ◼ ► still people and they have the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3351">TS</a>]
00:55:55 ◼ ► attachments and conflicts that we have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3355">TS</a>]
00:55:59 ◼ ► even today you know whether it be family [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3359">TS</a>]
00:56:01 ◼ ► or coworkers you know they're dealing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3361">TS</a>]
00:56:04 ◼ ► with essentially very similar problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3364">TS</a>]
00:56:06 ◼ ► to you know ones that would be instantly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3366">TS</a>]
00:56:08 ◼ ► recognizable to anybody who picks up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3368">TS</a>]
00:56:10 ◼ ► this book and so that's that was what I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3370">TS</a>]
00:56:13 ◼ ► was shooting for it was to make people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3373">TS</a>]
00:56:14 ◼ ► who felt very human and are you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3374">TS</a>]
00:56:17 ◼ ► dealing with problems that are not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3377">TS</a>]
00:56:19 ◼ ► totally alien to the kind of stuff that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3379">TS</a>]
00:56:21 ◼ ► we all all have to deal with every day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3381">TS</a>]
00:56:24 ◼ ► yeah no I think I think you did that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3384">TS</a>]
00:56:27 ◼ ► it's a fun it's a fun book I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3387">TS</a>]
00:56:29 ◼ ► people especially I do think you live up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3389">TS</a>]
00:56:35 ◼ ► I can tell your love of the Vorkosigan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3395">TS</a>]
00:56:39 ◼ ► recognize that and I love those books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3399">TS</a>]
00:56:40 ◼ ► too and they're fun and I I had that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3400">TS</a>]
00:56:42 ◼ ► same feeling of I wish there were more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3402">TS</a>]
00:56:44 ◼ ► books like this where there are very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3404">TS</a>]
00:56:46 ◼ ► interesting human characters but they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3406">TS</a>]
00:56:49 ◼ ► get their problems are played out over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3409">TS</a>]
00:56:51 ◼ ► this galactic spectacle which is fun I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3411">TS</a>]
00:56:54 ◼ ► mean it's it's fun and I hope I hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3414">TS</a>]
00:56:57 ◼ ► people find it fun in even funny at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3417">TS</a>]
00:57:00 ◼ ► farts oh yeah sure you know attempts to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3420">TS</a>]
00:57:02 ◼ ► put in here where the the tone that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3422">TS</a>]
00:57:04 ◼ ► feel like I kind of shoot for and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3424">TS</a>]
00:57:06 ◼ ► don't know if this will be off-putting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3426">TS</a>]
00:57:06 ◼ ► to some people or not but the the tone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3426">TS</a>]
00:57:09 ◼ ► is kind of like that Marvel movie sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3429">TS</a>]
00:57:11 ◼ ► of tone where it's like there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3431">TS</a>]
00:57:12 ◼ ► serious moments of drama but there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3432">TS</a>]
00:57:13 ◼ ► also a lot of levity yeah and there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3433">TS</a>]
00:57:15 ◼ ► action and and stuff like that but like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3435">TS</a>]
00:57:17 ◼ ► it's very very digestible yeah well so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3437">TS</a>]
00:57:19 ◼ ► you've got you you definitely have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3439">TS</a>]
00:57:21 ◼ ► characters with senses of humor and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3441">TS</a>]
00:57:22 ◼ ► comes out in different ways which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3442">TS</a>]
00:57:27 ◼ ► definitely not as super serious like no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3447">TS</a>]
00:57:28 ◼ ► no this is science fiction we must be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3448">TS</a>]
00:57:30 ◼ ► serious it's not like that either so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3450">TS</a>]
00:57:32 ◼ ► yeah well it's I guess available where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3452">TS</a>]
00:57:37 ◼ ► yeah that hopefully I mean you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3457">TS</a>]
00:57:40 ◼ ► certainly find it on Amazon Barnes & [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3460">TS</a>]
00:57:42 ◼ ► Noble iBooks all those places you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3462">TS</a>]
00:57:45 ◼ ► check your local bookstore if they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3465">TS</a>]
00:57:46 ◼ ► have it they'll probably order it for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3466">TS</a>]
00:57:48 ◼ ► you no audio book yet but we can hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3468">TS</a>]
00:57:50 ◼ ► right that there might be down the road [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3470">TS</a>]
00:57:52 ◼ ► it's unclear right now is that right on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3472">TS</a>]
00:57:54 ◼ ► unclear I don't I don't know don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3474">TS</a>]
00:57:56 ◼ ► really have anything to announce about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3476">TS</a>]
00:57:58 ◼ ► I'm hopeful that at some point that will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3478">TS</a>]
00:58:00 ◼ ► be something that people can enjoy yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3480">TS</a>]
00:58:02 ◼ ► well that would be good that'd be good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3482">TS</a>]
00:58:04 ◼ ► yeah cuz some people want audiobooks and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3484">TS</a>]
00:58:06 ◼ ► that's yeah some people do want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3486">TS</a>]
00:58:08 ◼ ► what's the deal the deal you made with a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3488">TS</a>]
00:58:09 ◼ ► publisher was not audio book publishing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3489">TS</a>]
00:58:11 ◼ ► deal it was a print me book deal so any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3491">TS</a>]
00:58:13 ◼ ► anything that would happen it would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3493">TS</a>]
00:58:15 ◼ ► happen at some other time so we'll see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3495">TS</a>]
00:58:17 ◼ ► I hope so though that would be nice yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3497">TS</a>]
00:58:19 ◼ ► we're worse that comes to worse the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3499">TS</a>]
00:58:21 ◼ ► incomparable will read your book dan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3501">TS</a>]
00:58:24 ◼ ► people pay for that right they'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3504">TS</a>]
00:58:26 ◼ ► totally pay for that everybody take a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3506">TS</a>]
00:58:28 ◼ ► oh that now there's an idea now that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3508">TS</a>]
00:58:31 ◼ ► seems like it really it seems like no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3511">TS</a>]
00:58:33 ◼ ► one would have a good time with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3513">TS</a>]
00:58:34 ◼ ► including especially the listeners [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3514">TS</a>]
00:58:36 ◼ ► anything we didn't cover that you would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3516">TS</a>]
00:58:38 ◼ ► like to cover in this special all day on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3518">TS</a>]
00:58:40 ◼ ► Episode oh wow yeah that's a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3520">TS</a>]
00:58:43 ◼ ► pressure I'm trying to think if there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3523">TS</a>]
00:58:44 ◼ ► anything I mean I guess the short answer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3524">TS</a>]
00:58:47 ◼ ► would be you know I feel like we have we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3527">TS</a>]
00:58:54 ◼ ► incomparable and I think that's been a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3534">TS</a>]
00:58:57 ◼ ► huge help to me in over this time like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3537">TS</a>]
00:59:00 ◼ ► people have been really very supportive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3540">TS</a>]
00:59:01 ◼ ► and I've gotten a ton of tweets about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3541">TS</a>]
00:59:04 ◼ ► people buying the book which is just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3544">TS</a>]
00:59:05 ◼ ► incredibly heartwarming for me on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3545">TS</a>]
00:59:08 ◼ ► something that I've worked for so long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3548">TS</a>]
00:59:09 ◼ ► and really strove for for so long and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3549">TS</a>]
00:59:12 ◼ ► really appreciate everybody who bought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3552">TS</a>]
00:59:14 ◼ ► the book I really appreciate everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3554">TS</a>]
00:59:15 ◼ ► who's going to buy the book as you all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3555">TS</a>]
00:59:17 ◼ ► are I'm sure but I also you know kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3557">TS</a>]
00:59:20 ◼ ► want to say like hey I'm you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3560">TS</a>]
00:59:21 ◼ ► started this out as like I think all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3561">TS</a>]
00:59:24 ◼ ► writers pretty much I started out as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3564">TS</a>]
00:59:26 ◼ ► fan and you know to those of you who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3566">TS</a>]
00:59:30 ◼ ► sitting out there listening who maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3570">TS</a>]
00:59:31 ◼ ► thought like I'd like to write a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3571">TS</a>]
00:59:33 ◼ ► someday I guess I just want to tell you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3573">TS</a>]
00:59:35 ◼ ► that you can do this like it's not I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3575">TS</a>]
00:59:37 ◼ ► showed you that that it is an achievable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3577">TS</a>]
00:59:40 ◼ ► goal it's going to be hard it's going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3580">TS</a>]
00:59:42 ◼ ► take a ton of work but if you feel like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3582">TS</a>]
00:59:45 ◼ ► that's something you want to do then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3585">TS</a>]
00:59:47 ◼ ► can absolutely do it and you know feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3587">TS</a>]
00:59:53 ◼ ► certainly this I'm embarking upon a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3593">TS</a>]
00:59:55 ◼ ► section of my own life here so I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3595">TS</a>]
00:59:57 ◼ ► know that I will have all the answers or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3597">TS</a>]
01:00:00 ◼ ► answers but I will try you know I try to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3600">TS</a>]
01:00:02 ◼ ► sort of pay that forward as people have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3602">TS</a>]
01:00:04 ◼ ► in the past paid it forward for me to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3604">TS</a>]
01:00:07 ◼ ► try and help out and you know see if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3607">TS</a>]
01:00:09 ◼ ► people can achieve that so know that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3609">TS</a>]
01:00:11 ◼ ► can do this and if you need help or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3611">TS</a>]
01:00:14 ◼ ► advice feel free to to hit me up Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3614">TS</a>]
01:00:19 ◼ ► especially we comparable fans cuz I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3619">TS</a>]
01:00:21 ◼ ► I'm I'm one of you guys Dan you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3621">TS</a>]
01:00:25 ◼ ► making me want to go back to my novel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3625">TS</a>]
01:00:26 ◼ ► rewrite it's an irony just that thanks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3626">TS</a>]
01:00:29 ◼ ► which I've read it I've read several of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3629">TS</a>]
01:00:31 ◼ ► yeah and and I feel like there's there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3631">TS</a>]
01:00:34 ◼ ► some really good stories there that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3634">TS</a>]
01:00:35 ◼ ► would love to see shared with more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3635">TS</a>]
01:00:37 ◼ ► people that's a nice Monday would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3637">TS</a>]
01:00:39 ◼ ► nice and it's doable Jason it can be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3639">TS</a>]
01:00:42 ◼ ► done it I've seen it be done and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3642">TS</a>]
01:00:44 ◼ ► know an agent you know a guy so - I do I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3644">TS</a>]
01:00:46 ◼ ► know if you get well I'll get on that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3646">TS</a>]
01:00:48 ◼ ► I have to say quitting my job and going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3648">TS</a>]
01:00:50 ◼ ► out on my own or or leaving my job I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3650">TS</a>]
01:00:52 ◼ ► quit it and I didn't go out of my own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3652">TS</a>]
01:00:53 ◼ ► because they kept me and then I left my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3653">TS</a>]
01:00:55 ◼ ► job but uh that that threw threw a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3655">TS</a>]
01:00:57 ◼ ► wrench into all of my kind of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3657">TS</a>]
01:00:58 ◼ ► separation between different projects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3658">TS</a>]
01:01:02 ◼ ► and I that the writing the rewrites have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3662">TS</a>]
01:01:04 ◼ ► struggled because of that like I always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3664">TS</a>]
01:01:06 ◼ ► had that like I could write another six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3666">TS</a>]
01:01:08 ◼ ► colors post and I need I need to block [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3668">TS</a>]
01:01:09 ◼ ► off time and say no at this time write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3669">TS</a>]
01:01:12 ◼ ► your novel dummy it's an it's an it's an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3672">TS</a>]
01:01:15 ◼ ► investment and honestly you know you and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3675">TS</a>]
01:01:17 ◼ ► I both left at the same time yep and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3677">TS</a>]
01:01:18 ◼ ► that was helpful for me because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3678">TS</a>]
01:01:20 ◼ ► really gave me an impetus to be like I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3680">TS</a>]
01:01:22 ◼ ► gonna get this job focused focuses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3682">TS</a>]
01:01:24 ◼ ► behind a little yeah so I really yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3684">TS</a>]
01:01:28 ◼ ► really had to kick my own but at that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3688">TS</a>]
01:01:29 ◼ ► point be like you know what you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3689">TS</a>]
01:01:30 ◼ ► always wanted to do this and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3690">TS</a>]
01:01:31 ◼ ► never gonna have a better opportunity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3691">TS</a>]
01:01:33 ◼ ► yeah well and here you are so they can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3693">TS</a>]
01:01:36 ◼ ► they can't take this away from you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3696">TS</a>]
01:01:37 ◼ ► published on again horrid recall unless [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3697">TS</a>]
01:01:41 ◼ ► they run around for comment on all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3701">TS</a>]
01:01:43 ◼ ► bookstores Mitchell Brooks it's done no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3703">TS</a>]
01:01:45 ◼ ► not that one just read the books alright [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3705">TS</a>]
01:01:48 ◼ ► well thank you Dan and thanks everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3708">TS</a>]
01:01:50 ◼ ► for listening to this all day an epic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3710">TS</a>]
01:01:52 ◼ ► comfortable the Caledonian gambit by Dan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3712">TS</a>]
01:01:54 ◼ ► Morin is a published book from talos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3714">TS</a>]
01:01:57 ◼ ► press that you can go by and you should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3717">TS</a>]
01:02:00 ◼ ► buy it and buy two copies buy five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3720">TS</a>]
01:02:02 ◼ ► copies give them to your friends or just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3722">TS</a>]
01:02:03 ◼ ► leave them on a shelf somewhere and hug [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3723">TS</a>]
01:02:05 ◼ ► them occasionally whatever more I'm sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3725">TS</a>]
01:02:09 ◼ ► you'll hear more from Dan in the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+kMabizEk/3729">TS</a>]