Roderick on the Line

Ep. 249: "Blank Knobs"


00:00:00   this episode of Rodrick on the line is [TS]

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00:00:15   [Music] [TS]

00:00:19   hello hi John I'm herbals how's it going [TS]

00:00:28   good do I detect in your voice at own [TS]

00:00:32   world weariness now yes I stayed up a [TS]

00:00:36   little too late watching TV but I'm good [TS]

00:00:38   mm-hmm were you watching Indiana Jones [TS]

00:00:40   and the Last Crusade no but I like that [TS]

00:00:43   one were you know oh no no I like it [TS]

00:00:49   better in the second one there's [TS]

00:00:52   everything is better than the second one [TS]

00:00:53   well and then there's the other 'mo we [TS]

00:00:55   don't talk about there's a third one [TS]

00:00:58   that's even worse hmm it's kind of a [TS]

00:01:01   Godfather 3 type situation is it let's [TS]

00:01:05   say you had to watch that or matrix 3 [TS]

00:01:08   for all eternity ah you know I've never [TS]

00:01:12   seen then the other two Matrix movies [TS]

00:01:16   and it seems like there is a strong [TS]

00:01:18   consensus that they are not very good [TS]

00:01:19   and then there's a die-hard group that [TS]

00:01:22   thinks one of them is really pretty good [TS]

00:01:24   oh really [TS]

00:01:25   yeah how do you saying I haven't I [TS]

00:01:27   haven't seen the other two Matrix movies [TS]

00:01:29   either hmm you know it's in that [TS]

00:01:31   category of like why listen to another [TS]

00:01:34   my bloody valentine records no I know I [TS]

00:01:36   know yeah yeah it's it's frustrating [TS]

00:01:39   sometimes [TS]

00:01:40   I mean matrix is good but it but yeah I [TS]

00:01:43   was a little bit old yeah a little bit [TS]

00:01:45   old for it did I ever ever tell you the [TS]

00:01:47   story of how I saw the matrix this is [TS]

00:01:50   about 1998 1998 that's right um I was uh [TS]

00:01:56   I was walking down the street in Seattle [TS]

00:02:00   just Boop b'doop b'doop n' come on in 98 [TS]

00:02:04   or 99 um it might have been mainly in [TS]

00:02:07   theaters in 99 but I think officially [TS]

00:02:09   let me look I think oh you know what 99 [TS]

00:02:14   I stand corrected [TS]

00:02:15   look at those 99 yep no you know what [TS]

00:02:17   that's right that's right much 31st 1980 [TS]

00:02:21   no March 31st see there it is [TS]

00:02:23   and I had just learned that the western [TS]

00:02:29   state hurricanes were breaking up [TS]

00:02:31   because we'd gotten back from our South [TS]

00:02:34   by Southwest trip and I'd written a [TS]

00:02:36   bunch of new songs and I was really [TS]

00:02:38   excited and we we met for our first band [TS]

00:02:40   practice after we got back from the tour [TS]

00:02:44   you know we got back and we we relaxed [TS]

00:02:47   and didn't you know didn't get together [TS]

00:02:49   for a week or two a couple of weeks and [TS]

00:02:51   then it's like let's get back together [TS]

00:02:53   band practice and we all show up and [TS]

00:02:55   we've got some shows booked including [TS]

00:02:58   our first-ever headlining of the show [TS]

00:03:01   box a really big deal and Seattle Wow [TS]

00:03:04   and we're in the practice base and we [TS]

00:03:07   get in there and we and I'm like oh my [TS]

00:03:11   god you guys I've got like four new [TS]

00:03:12   songs this is gonna be amazing and the [TS]

00:03:17   drummer and bass player have been [TS]

00:03:18   meeting in secret and they say and I [TS]

00:03:22   said let me let me put this all in my [TS]

00:03:25   head because I honestly think that we [TS]

00:03:28   put our shit on and practiced we played [TS]

00:03:33   and then took a break and during the [TS]

00:03:38   break they said we're quitting the band [TS]

00:03:43   well like it was a lead a little bit [TS]

00:03:45   there [TS]

00:03:46   yeah it wasn't even you know they didn't [TS]

00:03:49   like call and leave a voicemail or [TS]

00:03:51   something it was just like and I said [TS]

00:03:54   what are we doing why are we why did you [TS]

00:03:56   put Y did we just practice for an hour [TS]

00:03:58   and a half and they're like oh well do [TS]

00:04:00   you know who knows why they who knows [TS]

00:04:03   why they were like they were but it [TS]

00:04:06   turned out that they didn't because [TS]

00:04:07   we've gone on this week-long tour [TS]

00:04:09   ten-day tour they they decided they [TS]

00:04:13   didn't like touring and being in a band [TS]

00:04:15   because they didn't have their own [TS]

00:04:16   pillow every night and they had a job [TS]

00:04:19   their jobs lined up the drummer was [TS]

00:04:23   going to be a copywriter for like a [TS]

00:04:26   sports equipment company and the bass [TS]

00:04:30   player was going to go work at Microsoft [TS]

00:04:32   or something [TS]

00:04:34   and I was pretty mad but exceptionally [TS]

00:04:40   sad because I had I'd this was this I [TS]

00:04:44   had staked my hopes on this you guys had [TS]

00:04:46   a bullet you were gone places that's [TS]

00:04:49   right when they brought it to you their [TS]

00:04:50   reluctance to bring it up before [TS]

00:04:52   practice was not indicative I they felt [TS]

00:04:55   strongly about this this was not [TS]

00:04:56   something you could negotiate or talk [TS]

00:04:57   them out of no they were pretty smug [TS]

00:05:00   dudes and thought that they had it all [TS]

00:05:03   figured out I mean they always acted [TS]

00:05:05   like they had it all figured out but [TS]

00:05:06   they had it all figured out here too [TS]

00:05:08   they just you know this has been a [TS]

00:05:11   factor a lot lately for me where you [TS]

00:05:16   feel like your reality and someone [TS]

00:05:19   else's reality just aren't sharing the [TS]

00:05:22   same parameters yeah like you the two [TS]

00:05:25   realities don't have a hard time [TS]

00:05:28   coexisting and of course they do there [TS]

00:05:31   they are able to co-exist there here in [TS]

00:05:33   the world at the same time together it's [TS]

00:05:36   June for me and it's June for you but in [TS]

00:05:41   there cosmology somehow this breaking up [TS]

00:05:45   the band didn't preclude continuing to [TS]

00:05:49   practice mm-hmm and I think I think it [TS]

00:05:52   was because you know we did have a show [TS]

00:05:55   coming up and I say that makes sense [TS]

00:05:58   well except for the exhibit to me like [TS]

00:06:01   the show coming up is the whole point of [TS]

00:06:05   the show coming up is that it continue [TS]

00:06:08   our career in the job of playing shows [TS]

00:06:10   like the show itself isn't isn't that [TS]

00:06:14   you know like it's not that we throw [TS]

00:06:17   ourselves on the sword and make a [TS]

00:06:18   sacrifice in order to play this show for [TS]

00:06:20   itself there's only one reason to play [TS]

00:06:23   the show and that is to continue to play [TS]

00:06:26   shows although we did end up playing our [TS]

00:06:29   final show but I didn't want it suffice [TS]

00:06:34   to say after they said we're breaking up [TS]

00:06:35   the band I didn't want to go back in and [TS]

00:06:37   practice more Sundays just call it that [TS]

00:06:40   yeah but this whole like why is your [TS]

00:06:43   reality so far from mine [TS]

00:06:45   a thing is really well it's really a [TS]

00:06:50   moment where you have to break down your [TS]

00:06:52   reality and say where am I missing the [TS]

00:06:56   peace cuz there you know I can't just be [TS]

00:06:59   them right there's got a beauty to this [TS]

00:07:04   to have to be still can't figure that [TS]

00:07:07   one out that makes you wonder if if [TS]

00:07:09   maybe we mostly got lucky for a long [TS]

00:07:11   time and seeming to have the same [TS]

00:07:13   reality and that the Venn diagram just [TS]

00:07:15   happened to be like sailing over the [TS]

00:07:17   same little area of the pool for a long [TS]

00:07:19   time you know I mean maybe I wonder like [TS]

00:07:21   I wonder if it's always been this way [TS]

00:07:22   and I just never realized it yeah right [TS]

00:07:24   well and what an end and it makes you [TS]

00:07:28   wonder like how is it that I seem to be [TS]

00:07:32   successfully sharing a single reality [TS]

00:07:34   with a lot of people is that also untrue [TS]

00:07:38   am i it is it is it just that I'm in [TS]

00:07:44   most cases I haven't stumbled into the [TS]

00:07:46   way and stumbled into the little little [TS]

00:07:50   hole in the ground where all of a sudden [TS]

00:07:52   the vast difference between our [TS]

00:07:55   realities is revealed [TS]

00:07:56   if only there you see the same green- [TS]

00:07:59   thumbnail if only there was some kind of [TS]

00:08:02   a movie that you could have gone to [TS]

00:08:03   around that time that would help clarify [TS]

00:08:05   the idea that maybe reality isn't what [TS]

00:08:08   it seems so I'm walking down the street [TS]

00:08:11   in downtown Seattle I have no idea why [TS]

00:08:13   I'm downtown and I'm just like bummed [TS]

00:08:17   I'd had an opportunity to go to South [TS]

00:08:19   Africa that spring with the University [TS]

00:08:24   of Washington compared to the history of [TS]

00:08:26   ideas class and we were going to study [TS]

00:08:29   the Truth and Reconciliation committee [TS]

00:08:30   and my advisor Jim Klaus had said I [TS]

00:08:34   don't want I don't want you down there [TS]

00:08:36   as a as a student I want you to watch [TS]

00:08:40   the students and then write a book about [TS]

00:08:42   what happens like it was very thrilling [TS]

00:08:45   it felt like a super secret spy mission [TS]

00:08:47   to go do some world historical college [TS]

00:08:51   work and if I'd done it I would be very [TS]

00:08:53   ecology right now probably and I went to [TS]

00:08:57   banned and I said I have this [TS]

00:08:59   opportunity to go down there and they [TS]

00:09:00   said I swear to you this was in October [TS]

00:09:05   or November of the following year they [TS]

00:09:07   were like you can't leave dude the band [TS]

00:09:09   is blowing up you can't just go for go [TS]

00:09:13   to South Africa and expect to come back [TS]

00:09:15   and the band will still be here wait how [TS]

00:09:16   are you how long before the breakup was [TS]

00:09:18   this well we broke up in March and they [TS]

00:09:21   were saying this to me in October [TS]

00:09:22   November and so I looked at my life at [TS]

00:09:27   that moment that crossroads where I was [TS]

00:09:28   like if I go left I'm going to South [TS]

00:09:31   Africa to write a book about the Truth [TS]

00:09:32   and Reconciliation committee that seems [TS]

00:09:34   really heavy and cool unlike what I've [TS]

00:09:36   been what I've been aiming toward in my [TS]

00:09:39   college life for a long time something [TS]

00:09:42   like cool but if I go right I'm in a [TS]

00:09:46   successful finally in a successful [TS]

00:09:48   popular band that might have a shot at [TS]

00:09:50   being rock and roll and I went to my [TS]

00:09:55   professor and he was like well you know [TS]

00:09:58   you got it this is one of those things [TS]

00:10:00   you got to choose and I said I made that [TS]

00:10:06   I made the decision based on the fact [TS]

00:10:08   that which thing is less likely to be [TS]

00:10:11   available to you which which thing is [TS]

00:10:15   more strike while the iron's hot like [TS]

00:10:17   the shot of being a rocking rock star [TS]

00:10:20   the shot of being a university professor [TS]

00:10:22   and it seemed like if you don't take the [TS]

00:10:25   rock and roll shot when it comes it's [TS]

00:10:28   never going to come again and so I said [TS]

00:10:31   I couldn't go to South Africa and I was [TS]

00:10:33   super bummed and then we went down to [TS]

00:10:37   South by Southwest and we came back in [TS]

00:10:38   the band broke up because they got jobs [TS]

00:10:40   as copywriters and they didn't like to [TS]

00:10:42   be on they didn't like to be in the van [TS]

00:10:45   you know anyway I'm walking down the [TS]

00:10:49   street I'm super bummed I'm dragging my [TS]

00:10:52   feet and I hear beep beep and I turn [TS]

00:10:56   around and there's Death Cab for Cutie [TS]

00:10:58   the entire band all in their van and my [TS]

00:11:02   recollection is that it was like the [TS]

00:11:06   scooby doo van hey guys like there it's [TS]

00:11:10   like a brown [TS]

00:11:11   it's a rootbeer Brown like 80s Ford van [TS]

00:11:15   and and depend in my memory there all [TS]

00:11:19   four of them hanging out the windows [TS]

00:11:21   like wait like the Cosby kids yeah [TS]

00:11:24   exactly like they're all they don't fit [TS]

00:11:26   in the van because they're they have [TS]

00:11:28   cartoon heads right they're so big that [TS]

00:11:31   they that they drive with their heads [TS]

00:11:33   out of the van like here we come walking [TS]

00:11:35   down your street and they're like what [TS]

00:11:38   are you doing man and you know they live [TS]

00:11:40   in Bellingham right so so uh so I'm like [TS]

00:11:43   hey guys [TS]

00:11:44   ah the West would say hurricane breaking [TS]

00:11:47   up and they're like what get in the van [TS]

00:11:52   and so I got in a van and they drove me [TS]

00:11:54   to Bellingham because there was just [TS]

00:11:58   nothing at you know I didn't have [TS]

00:11:59   anything going on huh drove me to [TS]

00:12:02   Bellingham and we all went to see the [TS]

00:12:03   matrix which was a movie that I had not [TS]

00:12:06   even heard of at that point because I [TS]

00:12:08   hadn't been following the trades we got [TS]

00:12:11   we got to the movie theater and they're [TS]

00:12:13   like come on we're gonna go see a movie [TS]

00:12:15   you know I was 29 at this point and they [TS]

00:12:18   were all 22 23 so it was so it was so I [TS]

00:12:23   always felt a little bit like okay you [TS]

00:12:24   guys I'll go to the movies with you and [TS]

00:12:27   it was it was great and it was great not [TS]

00:12:30   necessarily because the matrix was great [TS]

00:12:32   but because there wasn't anything like [TS]

00:12:35   that before and then and I didn't have [TS]

00:12:37   any foreshadowing and I just went into [TS]

00:12:40   this movie and I'll stretch a good [TS]

00:12:42   feeling yeah yeah it was it was neat so [TS]

00:12:47   I still have a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:12:50   sentimentality around the first Matrix [TS]

00:12:53   movie and I can't separate it from [TS]

00:12:54   whether or not I think it's a good movie [TS]

00:12:57   because I suspect that it doesn't acquit [TS]

00:13:01   with my normal desire for movie [TS]

00:13:04   narratives to line up - you know what I [TS]

00:13:08   mean I do yeah I watch it again not too [TS]

00:13:10   long ago [TS]

00:13:10   partly to figure out like when it's [TS]

00:13:12   going to be appropriate to show this to [TS]

00:13:14   my kid answer not yet um but uh man it's [TS]

00:13:19   it still looks really good it still [TS]

00:13:21   feels [TS]

00:13:23   really good I mean for being as [TS]

00:13:24   quote-unquote old as it is it still [TS]

00:13:27   feels pretty fresh and it's I mean maybe [TS]

00:13:29   again maybe I'm just reliving my first [TS]

00:13:31   you know watching of it but it also just [TS]

00:13:33   it still feels like this is one of those [TS]

00:13:36   movies I don't know what like 2001 or [TS]

00:13:38   Star Wars or I don't know there's lots [TS]

00:13:41   of movies like that where like it's so [TS]

00:13:43   difficult to when you go back and watch [TS]

00:13:45   movies that were made after this you [TS]

00:13:47   know like every phone looks like an [TS]

00:13:48   iPhone now it's like that movie wasn't [TS]

00:13:50   just the bullet time I mean you know [TS]

00:13:52   everything being green had already been [TS]

00:13:54   going on for a while but it was just so [TS]

00:13:56   audacious the two of them the Wachowski [TS]

00:13:58   czar so audacious about how they present [TS]

00:14:01   things and they're not above like like a [TS]

00:14:03   superhero shot of the team coming out [TS]

00:14:05   the door and like it's just it's it's [TS]

00:14:06   the wrong I think it's still really good [TS]

00:14:09   I I mean my question to you is are all [TS]

00:14:14   of the matrix tropes - it doesn't have [TS]

00:14:16   that effect where you watch it and [TS]

00:14:18   you're like it feels uh it feels cheap [TS]

00:14:22   because everything that's come [TS]

00:14:24   subsequently stole from it does it feel [TS]

00:14:26   like tripe right right right I don't [TS]

00:14:30   think so [TS]

00:14:31   I mean you know bullet time filming [TS]

00:14:34   became kind of a fad but it doesn't hurt [TS]

00:14:37   that they did it was used in the service [TS]

00:14:39   of the story so well like that in the [TS]

00:14:42   sort of like pre credit scene when [TS]

00:14:44   they're about to find Carrie Moss and [TS]

00:14:46   she's just standing in that room like [TS]

00:14:47   staring and then you know she just [TS]

00:14:50   starts kicking the shit out of everybody [TS]

00:14:51   and like it's it's I think it still [TS]

00:14:53   looks fantastic it's it's a weird [TS]

00:14:57   audacious movie I mean maybe a little [TS]

00:14:59   bit I mean in a different way sort of [TS]

00:15:01   like guardians of the galaxy we were [TS]

00:15:02   like you know if you told somebody the [TS]

00:15:04   story you go alright whatever [TS]

00:15:06   but it's the implementation it's just [TS]

00:15:07   it's so well implemented I don't know I [TS]

00:15:08   don't think it feels dated at all I [TS]

00:15:10   think there's a lot of like mumblecore [TS]

00:15:12   for the last 10 years that is aged a lot [TS]

00:15:14   more poorly uh you're talking about [TS]

00:15:20   mumblecore which is the Seattle [TS]

00:15:22   invention and we take that very [TS]

00:15:24   personally sorry I did not mean to [TS]

00:15:26   culturally-appropriate you're mumbling [TS]

00:15:29   um tell me very briefly with no spoiler [TS]

00:15:33   alerts because I know how passionately [TS]

00:15:35   people feel about spoilers um tell me [TS]

00:15:39   how you feel about the most recent [TS]

00:15:41   guardians of the galaxy movie which I [TS]

00:15:44   have to assume you saw an opening day we [TS]

00:15:46   saw it pretty early on well I you know I [TS]

00:15:50   went in with as much as I tried to mute [TS]

00:15:53   my expectations they were still [TS]

00:15:55   impossibly high because of how [TS]

00:15:56   thoroughly I enjoyed the first one I [TS]

00:15:58   remember you talking about I remember [TS]

00:16:00   what two three years ago when you [TS]

00:16:01   mentioned you saw it I didn't want to [TS]

00:16:03   hear what you thought because I was [TS]

00:16:04   scared you wouldn't like it and I'd be [TS]

00:16:05   sad you know it's one of those I feel [TS]

00:16:08   like there's I've been struggling for a [TS]

00:16:09   while not a cop with a name for certain [TS]

00:16:11   kinds of media properties you can't even [TS]

00:16:13   really discuss rationally or [TS]

00:16:15   intellectually we were like for an [TS]

00:16:17   obvious example dismiss right where's [TS]

00:16:18   like you know just give me that one like [TS]

00:16:20   I'm not gonna I'm not trying to persuade [TS]

00:16:21   you to like this but this is a thing [TS]

00:16:23   that I like and that's just how it is [TS]

00:16:25   when you try to persuade me to like the [TS]

00:16:27   Smith for a long time I think I I think [TS]

00:16:29   I tried to correct you on how wrong you [TS]

00:16:31   are about this mess but I don't think [TS]

00:16:33   I'd wanted you to like become a super [TS]

00:16:34   fan but uh I went into it and I thought [TS]

00:16:38   you know it um there's there's a there's [TS]

00:16:42   several things about it on several [TS]

00:16:43   levels that I didn't love one of which [TS]

00:16:47   was like the team being split up like a [TS]

00:16:49   lot of the fun throw us a movie the [TS]

00:16:51   team's not together which works [TS]

00:16:53   sometimes like in like a rogue one like [TS]

00:16:55   that makes sense but like you know I [TS]

00:16:57   Orion you know any the Star Wars movies [TS]

00:16:59   you go off and have your little side [TS]

00:17:00   adventures and stuff but you eventually [TS]

00:17:01   get back together and ya get the team [TS]

00:17:03   together yeah I mean by me a lot of what [TS]

00:17:05   I mean they have their reasons for [TS]

00:17:07   making it the way they did but it had a [TS]

00:17:09   lot of the the pixie dust that made the [TS]

00:17:14   first one special like the whole opening [TS]

00:17:15   sequence with Groot dancing around is is [TS]

00:17:17   really cute I think groots cuteness is a [TS]

00:17:20   little bit overused and I'm a big Groot [TS]

00:17:22   fan not by large I thought it was good [TS]

00:17:25   I thought it was good but it's i damning [TS]

00:17:28   it with faint praise because i like the [TS]

00:17:30   first one so much and the basic test for [TS]

00:17:32   all these kinds of things this goes for [TS]

00:17:34   Pixar's goes for Miyazaki this goes for [TS]

00:17:36   any of these Marvel movies especially [TS]

00:17:37   with genre movies it's really comes down [TS]

00:17:39   to how much I think about it after I [TS]

00:17:40   leave the theater and I just I can't [TS]

00:17:42   even remember [TS]

00:17:43   what happened in the movie and I was [TS]

00:17:44   absolutely paying attention it just it [TS]

00:17:46   didn't it didn't feel you know it's [TS]

00:17:49   there's this irony especially in [TS]

00:17:51   superhero movies about like like the [TS]

00:17:53   bigness of the adventure is not always [TS]

00:17:56   you know the big Highness of the stakes [TS]

00:17:58   does not always pay off and how it gets [TS]

00:18:01   rolled out and so like for example the [TS]

00:18:03   Netflix shows like daredevil the stakes [TS]

00:18:05   are smaller but you're way more invested [TS]

00:18:07   so I don't know I'm kind of rambling but [TS]

00:18:09   like I wanted to love it as much as I [TS]

00:18:11   loved the first one which is such a high [TS]

00:18:13   bar but I thought it was merely good [TS]

00:18:16   mm-hmm what about you well you know my [TS]

00:18:20   experience of the first one was going in [TS]

00:18:22   again with some you know some group of [TS]

00:18:25   22 year olds in a van pulled up and said [TS]

00:18:28   let's go to the movies I don't remember [TS]

00:18:30   which band it was I was like all right [TS]

00:18:32   I'll go to the movies with you some kind [TS]

00:18:34   of superhero movie and I had never [TS]

00:18:35   here's the thing right I don't I am such [TS]

00:18:38   a such a non participate in Marvel [TS]

00:18:44   Comics culture that I had never heard of [TS]

00:18:48   guardians of galaxy I had never heard of [TS]

00:18:51   any of the characters in it or any of [TS]

00:18:54   the tangential characters I did not have [TS]

00:18:56   any I had nothing I was like guardians [TS]

00:19:00   of the galaxy okay whatever you say and [TS]

00:19:02   I honestly even after I left the theater [TS]

00:19:05   and for maybe a couple of weeks [TS]

00:19:07   afterwards I thought it was a completely [TS]

00:19:10   discrete creation like they had invented [TS]

00:19:14   those characters for the purposes of [TS]

00:19:16   this movie only I didn't realize it [TS]

00:19:18   pre-existed right right as a as a comic [TS]

00:19:21   book I guess right I think even even a [TS]

00:19:23   fairly ardent reader of comics over the [TS]

00:19:26   years would describe them as probably at [TS]

00:19:27   best obscure there it's definitely not [TS]

00:19:30   like an Iron Man kind of you know a [TS]

00:19:32   level set of characters but I mean and [TS]

00:19:35   the team's changed over time and like I [TS]

00:19:37   don't think it's one of those things [TS]

00:19:38   like Alpha Flight like how many people [TS]

00:19:40   besides you know Wolverine can people [TS]

00:19:42   name from Alpha Flight near the list of [TS]

00:19:43   the items but just in a sense that like [TS]

00:19:46   it was not it was it really felt like a [TS]

00:19:48   like a Hail Mary in terms of bringing up [TS]

00:19:51   these characters that the garden-variety [TS]

00:19:53   comic fan is not familiar with in the [TS]

00:19:55   garden-variety comic movie [TS]

00:19:57   has probably never heard of and couldn't [TS]

00:20:00   pick out of a lineup yeah and and you [TS]

00:20:04   know where is the on paper like how is [TS]

00:20:08   this going to be how is anybody going to [TS]

00:20:11   identify with this or you know like [TS]

00:20:13   where is the how is this a franchise [TS]

00:20:15   right right and and I went and and the [TS]

00:20:18   movie starts out and here the the guy [TS]

00:20:20   comes with his goggles and he and he [TS]

00:20:22   puts his cassette out there on a bow [TS]

00:20:25   starts dancing and and initially I was [TS]

00:20:28   like oh this is going to be this huh [TS]

00:20:30   this here's where we are well that [TS]

00:20:32   opened uh the kind of cold open is the [TS]

00:20:34   flashback which was brutal I mean oh I [TS]

00:20:37   was like oh my gosh I hope the rest of [TS]

00:20:39   movie is gonna be this rough right [TS]

00:20:41   that's right okay so I guess that did [TS]

00:20:43   that cold open got me in it was like the [TS]

00:20:46   cold open of uh of inglourious basterds [TS]

00:20:50   right where I really did feel like this [TS]

00:20:53   movie is gonna be really hardcore and [TS]

00:20:55   and good because both cold opens [TS]

00:20:57   fantastic right just like what am i [TS]

00:21:00   watching yeah and then the then the [TS]

00:21:01   cassette thing and I was like okay okay [TS]

00:21:03   okay but then even that scene but by by [TS]

00:21:07   three-quarters the way through I was [TS]

00:21:08   like oh this is not bad this is good and [TS]

00:21:10   the Garden guardians of the galaxy was [TS]

00:21:13   such a thrill ride for me because I [TS]

00:21:15   couldn't believe that there were people [TS]

00:21:17   this smart and funny that we're making [TS]

00:21:18   movies it just didn't seem it didn't [TS]

00:21:20   seem possible given how I got the room [TS]

00:21:23   assignment like wait a minute yeah are [TS]

00:21:25   you sure you're supposed to be in here [TS]

00:21:26   should you be in like French new-wave [TS]

00:21:30   there are hundreds of thousands of [TS]

00:21:32   people in Hollywood making movies all [TS]

00:21:33   the time and I and none of them come up [TS]

00:21:35   with anything close to this in terms of [TS]

00:21:38   script in terms of you know whoever the [TS]

00:21:41   continuity people were they were good [TS]

00:21:43   you know that's the thing about [TS]

00:21:44   continuity right there [TS]

00:21:45   so unsung because if they're doing their [TS]

00:21:47   job you don't notice them it's only the [TS]

00:21:50   ones that are not doing it's only the [TS]

00:21:53   script doctors that are not thinking [TS]

00:21:56   about whether or not their ship makes [TS]

00:21:57   sense that stand out so this is just [TS]

00:22:00   like I fell in love with the raccoon I [TS]

00:22:03   didn't even understand Groot I didn't [TS]

00:22:04   end that whole right like why is this [TS]

00:22:06   tree even in this but it was he's [TS]

00:22:09   wonderful he's a [TS]

00:22:10   really sweet tree who occasionally [TS]

00:22:12   becomes incredibly violent yeah yeah and [TS]

00:22:16   and I identified with everybody in the [TS]

00:22:18   movie and and so when guardians of the [TS]

00:22:21   galaxy 2 started coming out when that's [TS]

00:22:23   they started to roll it out I I did that [TS]

00:22:27   I got spooked I was like no no no no no [TS]

00:22:30   no no how are you gonna do this this is [TS]

00:22:33   you know you're gonna screw this up I [TS]

00:22:35   bet Hollywood aren't you aren't you [TS]

00:22:37   Hollywood yeah and then as it got closer [TS]

00:22:40   and closer and everybody was so hyped up [TS]

00:22:42   I was like I've seen this before I [TS]

00:22:43   remember when you were waiting in line [TS]

00:22:44   for the Phantom Menace you dumb people [TS]

00:22:46   don't do this to yourselves what I saw [TS]

00:22:50   my friend and more until he'd wondered [TS]

00:22:53   if he'd ever see he's you know 10 maybe [TS]

00:22:55   10 years younger than me maybe more but [TS]

00:22:58   he uh he had wondered if there'd ever be [TS]

00:22:59   another Star Wars in his lifetime and he [TS]

00:23:01   saw it like three times in one weekend [TS]

00:23:03   and each time he was like that was good [TS]

00:23:04   right like if you try to figure it out [TS]

00:23:06   yeah the thing you're like it must be me [TS]

00:23:08   I mean this is George Lucas George Lucas [TS]

00:23:10   is the force man like this is yeah I I'm [TS]

00:23:12   missing something I should keep going [TS]

00:23:14   back to this nothing until I get it [TS]

00:23:15   right good right those guys right you [TS]

00:23:18   guys right and everybody's like that [TS]

00:23:19   yeah um I was I was like that when I [TS]

00:23:24   went to see Hitchhiker's Guide to the [TS]

00:23:26   galaxy because it had everything it had [TS]

00:23:29   ever it had Sam Rockwell who I think is [TS]

00:23:31   the greatest he's the greatest living [TS]

00:23:33   actor everything like saying we watched [TS]

00:23:35   Iron Man 2 a couple times in the last [TS]

00:23:37   week which i think is a highly [TS]

00:23:39   underrated movie and you know it's weird [TS]

00:23:41   they bring his character and so late in [TS]

00:23:42   that movie but like everything he's in [TS]

00:23:44   the moment he appears on screen the [TS]

00:23:45   movie just comes alive he Sarah is so [TS]

00:23:47   entertaining he's so great he's the one [TS]

00:23:50   Hollywood actor I'm I'm pretty confident [TS]

00:23:54   when I say he is the one single [TS]

00:23:56   Hollywood actor that I would actually [TS]

00:23:58   want to meet that I've you know that I [TS]

00:24:01   would be like if somebody said we're [TS]

00:24:04   gonna go meet Sam Rockwell I would be [TS]

00:24:06   like oh oh oh okay oh I'm cool you know [TS]

00:24:11   like I would be I'm not I feeling I [TS]

00:24:14   would be I would be weird right he's the [TS]

00:24:16   one guy I would be weird and and my [TS]

00:24:18   sense is he's he's not he's not one of [TS]

00:24:21   those in like dumb intense Hollywood [TS]

00:24:24   actor [TS]

00:24:24   where he's out crashing his car or [TS]

00:24:26   there's like swatting around being [TS]

00:24:28   intense but he does feel like somebody [TS]

00:24:31   who who I just I feel like he's probably [TS]

00:24:35   a pretty intense dude [TS]

00:24:36   i I'm maybe one day fate the fates will [TS]

00:24:40   bring us together in Sam Rockwell and I [TS]

00:24:42   will be able to carry on a conversation [TS]

00:24:44   because I would be I would look forward [TS]

00:24:45   to it cuz I just love I just love him I [TS]

00:24:47   love his face I love his voice I love [TS]

00:24:49   everything every time he's in a movie [TS]

00:24:51   whatever reason he's really in the movie [TS]

00:24:53   without having it up but he is such a [TS]

00:24:55   presence somebody I mean in a completely [TS]

00:24:57   different angle like Melissa McCarthy [TS]

00:24:58   we're like whatever material she is [TS]

00:25:00   given and it is certainly not always [TS]

00:25:01   great like I feel like she just brings [TS]

00:25:03   it alive and I just want to watch what [TS]

00:25:04   she does next and I think he's like that [TS]

00:25:07   and movie like moon I mean how many [TS]

00:25:08   people could pull off a movie that crazy [TS]

00:25:10   it's it's such a mode that no spoilers [TS]

00:25:13   but it's a very strange movie but I [TS]

00:25:15   totally agree but he okay so we're on Oh [TS]

00:25:19   Hitchhiker's Guide and you got Tim from [TS]

00:25:21   the office mm-hmm you can play who's the [TS]

00:25:24   best guy in the office I thought oh [TS]

00:25:26   absolutely and get severus snape as the [TS]

00:25:28   voice of Marvin right yep yep Saravanan [TS]

00:25:31   Magellan Rickman neon Marvin all right [TS]

00:25:34   Alan Rickman is in the movie isn't he as [TS]

00:25:37   a as a face character I don't know or am [TS]

00:25:41   I thinking of I think he's more of an [TS]

00:25:44   looking up there is there is a superhero [TS]

00:25:47   movie or some kind of movie where he's [TS]

00:25:49   in a spacesuit he's in a galaxy quest [TS]

00:25:52   galaxy quests that very amusing movie [TS]

00:25:55   that's it that's it 2005 another high [TS]

00:26:00   concept movie that Galaxy Quest where [TS]

00:26:02   it's like you guys came up with an idea [TS]

00:26:04   that's good boy this is a haircut you [TS]

00:26:08   got you got Zooey Deschanel in it you [TS]

00:26:10   gotta fry richard griffiths that's a [TS]

00:26:13   Vernon Dursley isn't it because of [TS]

00:26:15   course I judge everything by who they [TS]

00:26:17   were in a Harry Potter movie it's like [TS]

00:26:19   he got a Malkovich I've never seen it I [TS]

00:26:22   love the book my daughter and I have [TS]

00:26:24   read the book oh you've never seen [TS]

00:26:26   Hitchhiker's Guide the movie now I've [TS]

00:26:28   heard some of the radio play from back [TS]

00:26:31   in the day but I just the movie I don't [TS]

00:26:34   know is scared you know the feel the [TS]

00:26:35   book yeah the book has [TS]

00:26:38   Jitender right it just has such a like [TS]

00:26:41   any any anything can happen [TS]

00:26:43   they just he just describes it so well [TS]

00:26:45   and you're like I you know I don't even [TS]

00:26:47   want to see what a Vogon looks like just [TS]

00:26:48   just keep describing all that stuff yeah [TS]

00:26:52   and it's tried there have been attempts [TS]

00:26:55   made to adapt it for a long time as you [TS]

00:26:57   know radio play and the everything right [TS]

00:26:59   TV show the cereal box the and it's [TS]

00:27:02   never 100% succeeded and here was this [TS]

00:27:05   movie with all these perfect just the [TS]

00:27:07   perfect cast I couldn't have done a [TS]

00:27:08   better job of putting this movie [TS]

00:27:10   together yeah and no spoilers but it is [TS]

00:27:13   like just a it's a turnip unch Bowl is [TS]

00:27:18   it it pretty leaden yeah that's exactly [TS]

00:27:22   what happens there's no there's no [TS]

00:27:24   where's the lightness like this is [TS]

00:27:26   supposed to be hilarious and it there's [TS]

00:27:31   everybody's just walking around mugging [TS]

00:27:33   and there's no there's no joy in [TS]

00:27:36   Mudville and uh that was one where I did [TS]

00:27:40   go in with pretty high expectations and [TS]

00:27:43   halfway through the movie I said this is [TS]

00:27:46   not good this is no good this is like [TS]

00:27:49   this is like every twenty no movie in [TS]

00:27:52   the last ten years no good I have a [TS]

00:27:56   friend who is a comic writer and one of [TS]

00:28:00   his comics have you seen that trailer [TS]

00:28:03   for atomic blonde with Charlize Theron [TS]

00:28:06   no I like Shirley schuk is there on like [TS]

00:28:09   kicking butt in Berlin in the late 80s [TS]

00:28:11   good goosey god it's really good but but [TS]

00:28:13   so anyway I've kind of cool awesome his [TS]

00:28:15   his comic the coldest city is has been [TS]

00:28:18   made into a movie that comes out soon [TS]

00:28:19   but but he has done he's done all kinds [TS]

00:28:21   of different work including adaptations [TS]

00:28:24   oh yeah and yes he has some interesting [TS]

00:28:28   thoughts on and I'm always interested to [TS]

00:28:30   hear this kind of stuff from someone who [TS]

00:28:31   actually does it versus somebody who [TS]

00:28:33   just reckons how it should go [TS]

00:28:34   so like you know don't ask most comic [TS]

00:28:36   fans how you could make that into a [TS]

00:28:37   movie um though we have no context for [TS]

00:28:39   that you have your I mean you may but [TS]

00:28:41   you mainly have your very strong you [TS]

00:28:43   know emotional feelings like what to [TS]

00:28:46   leave in what to leave out like a Bob [TS]

00:28:47   Seger song [TS]

00:28:49   against the wind still wanna dance to [TS]

00:28:51   win but but you know it's and one of the [TS]

00:28:55   interesting thoughts he has is that like [TS]

00:28:57   you know he's not it this sounds obvious [TS]

00:28:59   but it's so important he's not against [TS]

00:29:00   changing the story like you've got to [TS]

00:29:02   adapt to this medium there's all kinds [TS]

00:29:06   of stuff that you have to there may be [TS]

00:29:07   characters you have to add there may be [TS]

00:29:08   characters you have to combine there may [TS]

00:29:10   be things and like it's it's such an [TS]

00:29:12   artful thing and look no further than [TS]

00:29:15   our friend Coppola The Godfather [TS]

00:29:17   the first Godfather book which I read [TS]

00:29:20   most of is fine but it's fine it's not [TS]

00:29:24   the movie that you see on screen it's [TS]

00:29:25   the result of a fantastic collaboration [TS]

00:29:27   adaptation obviously the town I mean [TS]

00:29:29   it's you know where they say success has [TS]

00:29:31   a thousand fathers and failures an [TS]

00:29:33   orphan it's but you know it takes so [TS]

00:29:35   many people to take something from one [TS]

00:29:37   medium into another and if it isn't just [TS]

00:29:39   a naked cash grab we're trying to cash [TS]

00:29:41   in on you know like oh the popularity of [TS]

00:29:43   Bratz dolls let's make a movie [TS]

00:29:44   you know is there something very artful [TS]

00:29:47   and special and then on top of it it's [TS]

00:29:49   not even like you're like an [TS]

00:29:50   up-and-coming indie director who wants [TS]

00:29:53   to make something like like Primmer [TS]

00:29:54   like let's say you've got or primer as [TS]

00:29:56   you say like if you've if you've got to [TS]

00:29:58   this got people in comics suffer from [TS]

00:30:00   this you go in with all this weight of [TS]

00:30:02   expectations I mean can you imagine [TS]

00:30:04   being Joss Whedon and going into like be [TS]

00:30:06   troubled Avengers project and then like [TS]

00:30:08   taking over think that's it's incredibly [TS]

00:30:11   difficult there's just there's so many [TS]

00:30:13   requirements and so many boxes to tick [TS]

00:30:15   and then on top of all that you have to [TS]

00:30:18   make it even if you had like an int like [TS]

00:30:19   I say with an indie film there's a [TS]

00:30:21   chance you could get it through a small [TS]

00:30:22   version of the Machine intact but like [TS]

00:30:25   imagine that extra level of difficulty [TS]

00:30:27   of having to make it an adaptation that [TS]

00:30:29   survives all that stuff where you've [TS]

00:30:31   like very carefully you've put together [TS]

00:30:33   this thing that's like almost like a [TS]

00:30:34   house of cards a character and plot and [TS]

00:30:37   we have this much budget like you know [TS]

00:30:39   like in The Hulk movie we can only show [TS]

00:30:40   the Hulk this much because we don't have [TS]

00:30:41   that much money etc etc so I just I have [TS]

00:30:44   a lot of admiration for people who pull [TS]

00:30:45   it off because like you said if it [TS]

00:30:47   worked well you don't notice why it was [TS]

00:30:50   great and if it doesn't work well all [TS]

00:30:52   you can do is obsess about what they [TS]

00:30:53   should have done differently yeah and I [TS]

00:30:55   I feel like they're - you touched on two [TS]

00:30:58   things right and one of them is the the [TS]

00:31:00   classic thing that we had that we [TS]

00:31:02   in the music recording business which is [TS]

00:31:06   that the more people from the head [TS]

00:31:07   office that come down to your recording [TS]

00:31:09   session the more they are going to [TS]

00:31:12   destroy what you're doing it's all they [TS]

00:31:14   can do is destroy what you're doing all [TS]

00:31:16   they have is the counter of subtraction [TS]

00:31:18   yeah right and so on mixing boards in [TS]

00:31:21   studios all over the world there are and [TS]

00:31:25   I swear this is both done for comedic [TS]

00:31:27   effect and also absolutely true there [TS]

00:31:30   are little sections of mixing boards [TS]

00:31:32   where the where things are like [TS]

00:31:34   disconnected and when someone an A&R guy [TS]

00:31:38   or somebody from the label comes and [TS]

00:31:40   wants to contribute a really good [TS]

00:31:43   producer will say hey here is this sect [TS]

00:31:47   you know they're like why don't we bring [TS]

00:31:48   the bass up why don't we take the [TS]

00:31:50   tambourine down why don't we change the [TS]

00:31:52   and he'll actually put his hands on some [TS]

00:31:54   knobs and say here you know like as the [TS]

00:31:58   mix is going by can you make those [TS]

00:32:00   adjustments here on these four knobs and [TS]

00:32:02   let me demonstrate for you next yes the [TS]

00:32:05   knobs are not connected to anything and [TS]

00:32:07   the the an our guy will sit there and [TS]

00:32:09   make these minor minor adjustments on on [TS]

00:32:11   blank knobs and be like they're like [TS]

00:32:14   that and everybody's like whoa yes thank [TS]

00:32:17   you [TS]

00:32:17   really many sweetens up the sound yeah [TS]

00:32:20   you did it man you found the sweet spot [TS]

00:32:22   anyway thanks for stopping by [TS]

00:32:24   and I think to to be in Hollywood and to [TS]

00:32:27   keep your thing alive you have to be [TS]

00:32:30   very good at that type of thing where [TS]

00:32:32   you're where you're a little bit of bit [TS]

00:32:35   misdirection of the of the A&R guy where [TS]

00:32:39   there's all these people from the [TS]

00:32:40   theater the studio they're like you know [TS]

00:32:42   it would be great is it the if there was [TS]

00:32:44   like a little kid like a precocious [TS]

00:32:46   little kid that wears glasses that like [TS]

00:32:48   says funny stuff and you go that is a [TS]

00:32:51   great idea here you know like what if we [TS]

00:32:55   made that kid a full-grown adult who [TS]

00:32:59   didn't ever say anything funny what [TS]

00:33:01   about that that was your idea my guy's [TS]

00:33:03   like amazing so I think you've got to be [TS]

00:33:06   able to do that and not do what I do [TS]

00:33:09   which is like what get the fuck out of [TS]

00:33:12   here you know because that's the way [TS]

00:33:14   that you lose that's what you lose [TS]

00:33:16   you gotta give them some kind of a like [TS]

00:33:19   we got a computer here something called [TS]

00:33:20   the heat sink right like you need to [TS]

00:33:22   give them an input sink you need to give [TS]

00:33:25   them some kind of a way to have input [TS]

00:33:27   without unintentionally you know doing [TS]

00:33:32   something destructive but you also need [TS]

00:33:34   to not it seems to me you also need to [TS]

00:33:36   not make it like Wow keep coming back [TS]

00:33:39   because we could sure use lots of tips [TS]

00:33:42   and tricks uh yeah [TS]

00:33:43   yeah I don't know how you do it [TS]

00:33:45   particularly when you've got people in [TS]

00:33:47   Hollywood or in business who really [TS]

00:33:50   think they're they're hot and who are [TS]

00:33:53   smart enough that they have gotten where [TS]

00:33:55   they've gotten so they're not just you [TS]

00:33:57   can't just misdirect them like throw a [TS]

00:33:59   tennis ball down the hall and like hey [TS]

00:34:01   go get it boy you know you've got a it's [TS]

00:34:03   that it's these guys that we're always [TS]

00:34:05   talking about right the the like the [TS]

00:34:08   middle-aged dude who never thought you [TS]

00:34:12   think's she's amazing and that's right [TS]

00:34:14   that's who you have to find a way to [TS]

00:34:17   like give him something real that they [TS]

00:34:20   know because they're on the lookout for [TS]

00:34:22   you to give them a button that doesn't [TS]

00:34:24   work right they they're they that's how [TS]

00:34:27   they that that's part of their identity [TS]

00:34:28   is like they're nobody's fool so how you [TS]

00:34:31   contend with them in a Hollywood [TS]

00:34:33   situation I don't know but that's less [TS]

00:34:36   interesting to me than the other thing [TS]

00:34:38   that you were touching on which is [TS]

00:34:42   somehow to maintain tonight then that [TS]

00:34:49   the word outsider is is so overused that [TS]

00:34:52   we that we forget that it originally had [TS]

00:34:54   a meaning but like how to maintain the [TS]

00:34:57   perspective of a child through a massive [TS]

00:35:00   undertaking like this how to maintain [TS]

00:35:03   that the simplicity of like does this [TS]

00:35:06   work or not does this make me laugh or [TS]

00:35:08   not does this do I understand this or [TS]

00:35:12   not and not get not get broken up into [TS]

00:35:15   all these sort of like here's a vignette [TS]

00:35:17   we're working on this vignette and how [TS]

00:35:20   it fits into the rest of the movie we [TS]

00:35:21   don't care how it you know like we've [TS]

00:35:24   got a team working on this vignette and [TS]

00:35:25   they're honing it and everything they [TS]

00:35:28   add or take away is actually [TS]

00:35:30   screwing up how it fits into the film [TS]

00:35:32   but no one's no one is coordinating it [TS]

00:35:36   no one is there's no executive here [TS]

00:35:39   because this has all been balkanized by [TS]

00:35:42   someone up up higher who's like you know [TS]

00:35:44   we need we need to bring in an action [TS]

00:35:46   guy for this scene we need to bring in [TS]

00:35:48   the script writers from this action film [TS]

00:35:50   to put more action into this scene in [TS]

00:35:53   this comedy or you know and I and I've [TS]

00:35:57   hit on this in other topics to talking [TS]

00:36:00   to you which is that at a certain point [TS]

00:36:04   expertise can be the enemy we we are so [TS]

00:36:11   you know we fetishize expertise in this [TS]

00:36:14   culture and so all of our teachers are [TS]

00:36:19   people who have pursued like an [TS]

00:36:23   education trajectory in their own [TS]

00:36:28   education yeah and all of our designers [TS]

00:36:32   have pursued designing extensively [TS]

00:36:35   exclusively and we have eliminated so [TS]

00:36:39   much the the sense that what the world [TS]

00:36:42   needs is people educated broadly and in [TS]

00:36:47   a film especially I feel like there [TS]

00:36:50   should be someone working in the working [TS]

00:36:55   on a film that doesn't know anything [TS]

00:36:58   about film right that that hasn't read [TS]

00:37:01   the the book you know that's just a a [TS]

00:37:05   reader and a knowledgeable person who [TS]

00:37:08   you run things by and go what is this [TS]

00:37:10   how does this I mean it's basically like [TS]

00:37:12   running it by your dad or you know or [TS]

00:37:14   like in my case your mom where like mom [TS]

00:37:16   does this scan and mom's like who's the [TS]

00:37:19   who's the one in the Hat and like oh [TS]

00:37:22   right right right because when I wrote [TS]

00:37:25   it I put in all this explication about [TS]

00:37:29   the one in the Hat and then I took it [TS]

00:37:30   out in a subsequent edit but the one in [TS]

00:37:31   the Hat is still in the movie it doesn't [TS]

00:37:34   make any sense because he because the [TS]

00:37:35   the backstory got edited out thanks mom [TS]

00:37:37   mm-hmm like a little bit of a sanity [TS]

00:37:40   check yeah but how do you go into a [TS]

00:37:43   business situation [TS]

00:37:44   and say and and make a case for someone [TS]

00:37:48   who isn't an expert make a case for the [TS]

00:37:51   the input of someone where you all [TS]

00:37:54   you're saying about them is I trust this [TS]

00:37:56   person here just you a lot of directors [TS]

00:37:58   and showrunners in TV have their own [TS]

00:38:01   kind of brain trust that they can run [TS]

00:38:03   stuff by you know that you wouldn't need [TS]

00:38:06   necessarily somebody who's just like an [TS]

00:38:07   absolute beginner but but I take your [TS]

00:38:09   point it the other get one other [TS]

00:38:11   challenge of expertise that can like I [TS]

00:38:14   like that absolute beginners drop in [TS]

00:38:17   their that like that the the other thing [TS]

00:38:19   with expertise is though there's so many [TS]

00:38:21   levels to expertise starting at the end [TS]

00:38:24   of there's all in one end you start out [TS]

00:38:26   not knowing what you don't even know you [TS]

00:38:28   need to know or not know like there's [TS]

00:38:29   just there's that you know the total [TS]

00:38:31   zero I don't even know anything about [TS]

00:38:33   this thing and of course you move up and [TS]

00:38:34   up and up but even if you become very [TS]

00:38:36   very good at something I think it's [TS]

00:38:37   still important to understand where your [TS]

00:38:39   expertise is appropriate and you know [TS]

00:38:43   where your expertise applies where your [TS]

00:38:45   expertise can be used useful or or where [TS]

00:38:48   your confidence [TS]

00:38:49   conversely where your confidence in your [TS]

00:38:51   own expertise might be a cataract that [TS]

00:38:55   causes you to start trying to solve a [TS]

00:38:57   problem that you've been comfortable [TS]

00:38:59   solving before to where you're almost [TS]

00:39:01   like somebody who let's say you're a TV [TS]

00:39:06   critic who's watched thousands of hours [TS]

00:39:08   of reality cooking shows and like you [TS]

00:39:10   know them backwards and forwards and so [TS]

00:39:12   what you do you like walk into the [TS]

00:39:13   kitchen and like here's the name of a [TS]

00:39:15   pasta that you know that you say they [TS]

00:39:16   should throw in the soup or you know [TS]

00:39:17   what I mean like oh one time they want [TS]

00:39:19   on top shell Top Chef with this the part [TS]

00:39:21   of expertise is also knowing when to say [TS]

00:39:22   like no I don't really know about this [TS]

00:39:24   like you know what I mean that that I [TS]

00:39:25   don't have to have you know I don't need [TS]

00:39:29   to put my fingers on the faders in order [TS]

00:39:31   to have an influence on how this works [TS]

00:39:33   that there should be a way that I can [TS]

00:39:35   adjust what I know and what I've learned [TS]

00:39:37   to deploy that in a way that's useful [TS]

00:39:41   and positive rather than something [TS]

00:39:43   that's just there for you to be able to [TS]

00:39:45   put a mark on it and and and this is [TS]

00:39:48   something that I this is I think you're [TS]

00:39:51   at the crux right where if you have [TS]

00:39:53   tremendous accomplishment and you have [TS]

00:39:56   made your bone [TS]

00:39:57   and you and and you are already a hero [TS]

00:40:01   in your craft and then you can be then [TS]

00:40:08   you can be a character that uh that sits [TS]

00:40:10   in the back of the room with sunglasses [TS]

00:40:12   on maybe asleep maybe not while the [TS]

00:40:15   whole thing goes and you are thinking to [TS]

00:40:17   yourself this is all going well it does [TS]

00:40:19   not need my intervention and you can get [TS]

00:40:21   away with it because people are like [TS]

00:40:23   well it's the master right that and so [TS]

00:40:26   so that hands-off Ness is I mean Quincy [TS]

00:40:31   Jones presumably does not sit in a chair [TS]

00:40:34   and and or doesn't jump up out of his [TS]

00:40:37   chair and go move the 57 on the snare [TS]

00:40:40   yeah he's the producer is not the [TS]

00:40:42   engineer right but but you know you'd be [TS]

00:40:45   surprised right as yet the number of and [TS]

00:40:47   so there are those people that you [TS]

00:40:50   understand right that that Carol King is [TS]

00:40:53   not going to say she's not going to be [TS]

00:40:56   down in the deep in the weeds if [TS]

00:41:00   something's going well right she's not [TS]

00:41:01   going to screw up something but then [TS]

00:41:06   there's the vast majority of people in [TS]

00:41:08   the middle of their profession who in a [TS]

00:41:11   lot of ways you know people are gunning [TS]

00:41:14   for their job there's a lot of there's [TS]

00:41:16   competition there in the mix and they're [TS]

00:41:19   at a stage in their career where people [TS]

00:41:20   are like are you the are you a genius [TS]

00:41:22   are you the next genius and there's got [TS]

00:41:25   to be so much pressure on them to look [TS]

00:41:30   like they're working basically right [TS]

00:41:32   it's got to be so hard for somebody in [TS]

00:41:34   the middle of a creative career business [TS]

00:41:36   business yeah right just to be like now [TS]

00:41:39   this is going well and what what I meet [TS]

00:41:40   you know what a great director does is [TS]

00:41:43   not mess with success or you know like [TS]

00:41:45   and so that accounts I think for the the [TS]

00:41:49   giant jumble of garbage that's like that [TS]

00:41:53   you know the the guy er the the guy er [TS]

00:41:55   of plastic that's in the it's rotating [TS]

00:41:57   around the Pacific that we call our [TS]

00:41:59   mainstream culture but it's those [TS]

00:42:01   creatives I just use the word okay you [TS]

00:42:05   get a freebie get one it's it's the [TS]

00:42:08   people that from a very young age have [TS]

00:42:11   the [TS]

00:42:11   confidence to be sparing from a from you [TS]

00:42:17   know throughout their career like if [TS]

00:42:18   when I think about Prince being a [TS]

00:42:21   teenager walking around Minneapolis [TS]

00:42:26   hears teenage Prince walking around [TS]

00:42:28   Minneapolis and he's going to like open [TS]

00:42:30   mics and he's in his high school band [TS]

00:42:33   and he's you know like he was a high [TS]

00:42:36   schooler right Prince didn't fall from [TS]

00:42:38   the sky he was just another weird kid [TS]

00:42:40   with temples he's a weird kid with [TS]

00:42:41   pimples it was like practicing the [TS]

00:42:43   guitar in on his bed nobody sees Prince [TS]

00:42:46   coming but from the very beginning he [TS]

00:42:52   had the confidence to be Prince because [TS]

00:42:55   there there aren't like seven Prince [TS]

00:42:57   albums where he's trying to figure it [TS]

00:43:00   out right you know he's like he hit the [TS]

00:43:03   ground pretty pretty running huh and [TS]

00:43:06   doing all these things like I was [TS]

00:43:08   listening to I was listening to a track [TS]

00:43:10   a Prince track yesterday where he's like [TS]

00:43:12   he has pre-delay right when I forget I'm [TS]

00:43:17   blanking on the tune but like the vocal [TS]

00:43:19   melody oh it's a little red Corvette um [TS]

00:43:24   where there's where does oh it's on the [TS]

00:43:28   bridge yeah there's a pre-echo yeah on [TS]

00:43:31   the verge of being obscene that part on [TS]

00:43:33   the verge on the verge of being obscene [TS]

00:43:35   yeah and it's like what I mean that's so [TS]

00:43:39   natural it's so beautiful and so [TS]

00:43:40   wonderful and I'm I'm sure Prince didn't [TS]

00:43:43   invent it but and and I let me see what [TS]

00:43:49   what is the what is the explanation for [TS]

00:43:52   I remember I remember hearing it [TS]

00:43:55   described how it was discovered which [TS]

00:43:57   was that um when the tape real when the [TS]

00:44:03   when the the tune is being wound back on [TS]

00:44:08   the tape real there's a little bleed and [TS]

00:44:12   there's little bleed through the tape or [TS]

00:44:14   on the tape where you get this pre-delay [TS]

00:44:19   because the you know the part actually [TS]

00:44:22   is like sort of [TS]

00:44:23   ghosts into the track I think that's [TS]

00:44:26   true on old on old recording media well [TS]

00:44:30   but but this is not that this isn't [TS]

00:44:32   bleed this was an intentional thing [TS]

00:44:34   where he was like I'm gonna I'm gonna do [TS]

00:44:38   this and and he was he was young enough [TS]

00:44:41   then I guess and there weren't as many [TS]

00:44:43   eyes on him that he could get away with [TS]

00:44:45   it there wasn't somebody like wait wait [TS]

00:44:46   wait Prince that's a little crazy that [TS]

00:44:50   those people the people that that don't [TS]

00:44:53   second-guess themselves or if they do [TS]

00:44:55   they just they there's a voice of [TS]

00:44:57   confidence in them maybe ken well you [TS]

00:45:00   know new young to an extent because he's [TS]

00:45:02   like whatever he's doing in the past [TS]

00:45:04   he's pod committed on whatever that [TS]

00:45:05   album is my god have you seen that [TS]

00:45:08   footage of him on German television or [TS]

00:45:11   whatever it is Dutch television have I [TS]

00:45:12   sent you those links just him playing [TS]

00:45:14   solo in playing solo I've seen ones from [TS]

00:45:18   around the time between um that comes a [TS]

00:45:21   time what's the one what's my favorite [TS]

00:45:23   album after the gold rush but before [TS]

00:45:25   harvest reads like playing songs from [TS]

00:45:26   harvest I've seen a bunch of footage [TS]

00:45:27   from that era that's like pretty [TS]

00:45:29   stunning that were you talking about [TS]

00:45:30   yeah yeah he's 22 years old he's sitting [TS]

00:45:32   on a chair and he's like the techne one [TS]

00:45:34   he looks like looks like he's from The [TS]

00:45:36   Young Ones he's just long hair and just [TS]

00:45:39   roll and he's like this is a new one I [TS]

00:45:41   wrote it's called old man it's about a [TS]

00:45:43   guy that lives in my farm and he plays [TS]

00:45:46   it on the acoustic guitar and it's [TS]

00:45:47   complete right it's it is a complete [TS]

00:45:50   work it's not like he's it's not like [TS]

00:45:54   he's working on it and that records not [TS]

00:45:56   out and just him in a guitar it's all [TS]

00:46:00   there you know you don't there isn't a [TS]

00:46:03   banjo part there isn't a backing vocal [TS]

00:46:05   but it doesn't matter because and you [TS]

00:46:08   know and I'm I'm not just in awe I'm not [TS]

00:46:11   just watching this and going like whoa [TS]

00:46:12   because I know the song backwards and [TS]

00:46:15   forwards and I and I don't have the [TS]

00:46:16   ability to distinguish my own love of [TS]

00:46:19   the thing from the actual thing like I'm [TS]

00:46:21   I am capable of looking at that and [TS]

00:46:23   saying that is actually phenomenal and [TS]

00:46:27   his parts are simple this is the the [TS]

00:46:30   wonderful thing about about truly great [TS]

00:46:32   stuff it's just simple it'd be easy to [TS]

00:46:35   play [TS]

00:46:36   but there it is it's a kit some it's a [TS]

00:46:39   masterpiece and he's just this young [TS]

00:46:43   like dirt in his hair [TS]

00:46:45   Canadian that's the least likely part [TS]

00:46:50   yep [TS]

00:46:51   with his with this bowl haircut driving [TS]

00:46:54   around Hollywood in a Cadillac hearse [TS]

00:46:57   like what the hell what what so so that [TS]

00:47:04   those those people and then on the far [TS]

00:47:07   far end of the spectrum you've got Neil [TS]

00:47:09   Young now who's 75 who in a way the fact [TS]

00:47:12   that he has never answered to anybody [TS]

00:47:14   and doesn't have to answer to anybody [TS]

00:47:15   maybe is a maybe is acting now slightly [TS]

00:47:19   has a little bit of a deficit on him [TS]

00:47:20   just because he's um cuz if he decided [TS]

00:47:25   he was going to wear clown shoes now [TS]

00:47:28   like everybody would be like a me [TS]

00:47:31   amazing amazing Neil and he'd be like [TS]

00:47:33   yeah but it's it's for those of us in [TS]

00:47:38   the in the broad middle the giant the [TS]

00:47:40   giant pile of us in the middle who are [TS]

00:47:42   like I'm working here a worgen when I [TS]

00:47:46   listen to the long winters records I put [TS]

00:47:48   everything on them because if I came up [TS]

00:47:51   with a with a shaker part I would want [TS]

00:47:54   it on there mm-hmm [TS]

00:47:55   and then it's like you know what this [TS]

00:47:57   track doesn't have a harpsichord it's [TS]

00:48:00   not like what does this track need a [TS]

00:48:01   harpsichord it's like what does this [TS]

00:48:03   track not have a harpsichord and so [TS]

00:48:07   there are a lot of melodies going on in [TS]

00:48:11   Tunes that are all very I think [TS]

00:48:13   satisfying and when you listen to them [TS]

00:48:15   on headphones it's fun but it doesn't [TS]

00:48:19   have that um maybe this doesn't always [TS]

00:48:23   serve the song as much as you would hope [TS]

00:48:26   well or what five melodies do is not [TS]

00:48:30   five times better than one great melody [TS]

00:48:33   yes that's good way to put it like that [TS]

00:48:35   it was so pepper well like once you [TS]

00:48:37   start stripping the layers away you know [TS]

00:48:39   you appreciate so much more of what's [TS]

00:48:41   actually there mm-hmm and a lot of those [TS]

00:48:44   decisions a lot of those decisions seem [TS]

00:48:47   probably simple at the time which is [TS]

00:48:49   George Wendt George Harrison went Bam [TS]

00:48:51   Bam pow and they're like it's done and [TS]

00:48:56   you listen to it now and you're like [TS]

00:48:58   that's the part yeah what what what was [TS]

00:49:01   how did they decide they've only got [TS]

00:49:02   four tracks there's a lot there's a lot [TS]

00:49:05   of things like that wheels new those the [TS]

00:49:06   raw tracks there's a lot of stuff really [TS]

00:49:08   Wow can't that's what they went with it [TS]

00:49:10   totally worked [TS]

00:49:11   I was listening the other day too [TS]

00:49:14   so um uh still trying to figure out the [TS]

00:49:19   Chris Cornell situation still spending [TS]

00:49:22   some not in considerable amount of time [TS]

00:49:24   in the middle of the night staring at [TS]

00:49:26   staring at the ceiling above my bathtub [TS]

00:49:29   and going what now what am i what what's [TS]

00:49:33   my takeaway here but so I I was [TS]

00:49:36   listening to burden in my hand which is [TS]

00:49:38   a really wonderful song and burden in my [TS]

00:49:42   hand has a has the feeling in the in the [TS]

00:49:49   pre-chorus and chorus of this bass part [TS]

00:49:53   that is just phenomenal and it's not [TS]

00:49:57   when you're listening to the entire [TS]

00:49:58   track you can't quite pick out exactly [TS]

00:50:02   what the bass is doing but it sounds [TS]

00:50:04   like a super-duper grunge bass like but [TS]

00:50:07   we divided boom bidden to be better but [TS]

00:50:09   differed about and there's a lot of like [TS]

00:50:10   guitar and stuff going on and there's [TS]

00:50:12   this Soundgarden II Polly rhythms but [TS]

00:50:16   Ben Shephard the bass player of of [TS]

00:50:19   Soundgarden is a local legend here he's [TS]

00:50:22   a you know he's legendarily like intense [TS]

00:50:26   guy I've known him tangentially for many [TS]

00:50:32   years and he's one of the very few [TS]

00:50:35   people who scares the shit out of me you [TS]

00:50:38   just scare sketches this episode of [TS]

00:50:42   Roderick on the line is brought to you [TS]

00:50:43   by Casper you learn more about Casper [TS]

00:50:45   right now by visiting Casper dot-com [TS]

00:50:47   slash supertrain here's the thing Casper [TS]

00:50:50   is a company that is focused on sleep [TS]

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00:51:59   consumer I know where I've I speak [TS]

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00:52:52   our thanks to Casper for supporting [TS]

00:52:55   Roderick on the line and all the great [TS]

00:52:57   shows scares the shit out of me he's a [TS]

00:53:02   he's a big guy and he is just his [TS]

00:53:07   intensity is up there to the to the [TS]

00:53:09   point of like hello [TS]

00:53:12   scary guy but I had a good friend who [TS]

00:53:15   worked who was oh you know Mike Squires [TS]

00:53:17   you know Mike's work Harry are all our [TS]

00:53:19   listeners know Mike Squires guitar [TS]

00:53:21   player of Duff McKagan 'he's loaded they [TS]

00:53:24   were on tour at a certain point a long [TS]

00:53:27   time ago and he met Zakk Wylde for the [TS]

00:53:29   first time and Mike was a Murray in the [TS]

00:53:31   Marines Mike is somebody who grew up in [TS]

00:53:34   an intense environment where you know [TS]

00:53:37   you had to really be on your toes and he [TS]

00:53:40   met Zakk Wylde and you know and tried to [TS]

00:53:43   like Josh with him like hey you know [TS]

00:53:46   what's up ding-a-ling her I don't know [TS]

00:53:48   tried to be like Mike Squires about it [TS]

00:53:49   and and Mike reported back to me that [TS]

00:53:53   the one guy in the the one guy that [TS]

00:53:55   scares the shit out of him is Zakk Wylde [TS]

00:53:57   and he didn't want to he didn't want a [TS]

00:53:59   monkey with Zakk Wylde which seemed like [TS]

00:54:02   a reasonable approach to take to Zakk [TS]

00:54:05   well he's also a very big man and an [TS]

00:54:08   impressive now my my good friend Andrew [TS]

00:54:11   mikeg who now is the tour manager of The [TS]

00:54:15   Experience Hendrix [TS]

00:54:17   show which tours the world with uh with [TS]

00:54:22   like all-star cast like Ringo Starr's [TS]

00:54:24   all-star band except playing Jimi [TS]

00:54:26   Hendrix music Wow [TS]

00:54:28   and Zach Zakk Wylde is in that band and [TS]

00:54:30   he Zach and Andrew now are thick as [TS]

00:54:32   thieves they they like post videos of [TS]

00:54:35   each other on Instagram like like cuckoo [TS]

00:54:37   cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo like it's [TS]

00:54:40   pretty great pretty rock and roll great [TS]

00:54:42   so I'm no longer um I'm no longer [TS]

00:54:45   worried about meeting Zach well because [TS]

00:54:46   I feel like I happenin I can say I'm [TS]

00:54:49   good friends with Andrew also Merlin [TS]

00:54:51   this may surprise you to know but my [TS]

00:54:53   understanding it's just remembering now [TS]

00:54:55   is that Zach wilds manager listens maybe [TS]

00:54:57   listens to this program get out of town [TS]

00:54:59   I'm not a hundred percent sure but I [TS]

00:55:01   think it's true or at least at one point [TS]

00:55:04   was huh anyway Ben Shepherd has always [TS]

00:55:08   scared the shit out of me and he's one [TS]

00:55:10   of those guys that would just stare at [TS]

00:55:12   you from across the room you're like [TS]

00:55:14   that's not good like like hi and he just [TS]

00:55:18   keeps just like staring but anyway so [TS]

00:55:21   there's this bass line in the song [TS]

00:55:23   burden in my hand [TS]

00:55:24   that for years I wanted to tease out [TS]

00:55:29   wanted to figure out what what's going [TS]

00:55:31   on and so the other day I was like I bet [TS]

00:55:35   you there's something on the internet [TS]

00:55:36   about this and I'm surprised often when [TS]

00:55:41   there is not something on the internet [TS]

00:55:42   about a thing [TS]

00:55:43   it feels you do this song this has got [TS]

00:55:46   happened to you huh in my neighborhood I [TS]

00:55:49   I feel like I'm about to talk about some [TS]

00:55:52   I'm about to talk about a dream hmm but [TS]

00:55:55   it's not a dream in my neighborhood [TS]

00:55:58   there is someone and I'm gonna say I'm [TS]

00:56:03   pretty confident that it's a guy this [TS]

00:56:08   someone who late late at night walks [TS]

00:56:17   around setting off sticks of dynamite [TS]

00:56:20   mmm [TS]

00:56:21   how I talked about this before I don't [TS]

00:56:24   think so [TS]

00:56:24   I mean they're not cherry bombs they are [TS]

00:56:31   there's like some significant boomy [TS]

00:56:33   bottom and so I'll because I'm up late [TS]

00:56:38   at night I'm lying in bed and some [TS]

00:56:41   nights I'll hear it all the way across [TS]

00:56:44   the neighborhood like on the far far far [TS]

00:56:47   side of neighborhood three o'clock in [TS]

00:56:48   the morning and it's loud but you can [TS]

00:56:54   tell it's also very distant and then [TS]

00:56:57   other times I will hear it nearby so [TS]

00:57:04   that the windows rattle my god middle of [TS]

00:57:08   the night and some nights I hear two and [TS]

00:57:13   maybe once even heard three of these [TS]

00:57:17   explosions in a single night and heard [TS]

00:57:20   them at a distance but moving like there [TS]

00:57:23   was one and then 45 minutes later there [TS]

00:57:25   was another one over there and then you [TS]

00:57:27   know an hour later there was another one [TS]

00:57:30   way over there we awake the whole time [TS]

00:57:32   with [TS]

00:57:33   be waking you up no I'm up I'm up and on [TS]

00:57:36   this is even weirder and this person [TS]

00:57:39   that I think is probably a guy is also a [TS]

00:57:41   play but one time I was sitting in my [TS]

00:57:46   bedroom in my house and a stick of [TS]

00:57:51   dynamite went out off in the street in [TS]

00:57:53   front of my house and I saw the flash [TS]

00:57:58   through the windows it rattled the [TS]

00:58:02   entire house it rattled my teak it [TS]

00:58:05   rattled it was like a stick well a stick [TS]

00:58:08   of dynamite in front of your house yeah [TS]

00:58:10   yeah you know just like and you're not [TS]

00:58:14   expecting it all right there's no like [TS]

00:58:17   five four it's just like and so I [TS]

00:58:21   typically you give a fella fire in the [TS]

00:58:23   hole before you do something like that [TS]

00:58:24   yeah and it's the middle of the goddamn [TS]

00:58:28   night you know 3:00 a.m. and it's only [TS]

00:58:30   that I'm just sitting here sorting my [TS]

00:58:33   cufflinks into boxes that I was awake [TS]

00:58:35   and saw the flash and so of course I [TS]

00:58:39   sprinted downstairs in my underpants [TS]

00:58:43   sprinted out the front door the entire [TS]

00:58:47   Street is full of black powder smoke [TS]

00:58:50   there's like shit floating in the air [TS]

00:58:53   right paper and ship floating in the air [TS]

00:58:56   and I run out into the middle and [TS]

00:58:58   there's you know this big black spot on [TS]

00:59:02   the on the pavement and I'm in the [TS]

00:59:05   middle of the street and I'm in my like [TS]

00:59:06   I didn't even have the forethought to [TS]

00:59:09   take a fencing saber with me I'm just [TS]

00:59:11   like I am ready to fight whatever [TS]

00:59:15   mountain lion whatever human bear [TS]

00:59:17   mountain lion in human shape just thinks [TS]

00:59:19   that this is a good plan and I'm out in [TS]

00:59:21   the military and there's no one and I'm [TS]

00:59:24   looking and I'm looking and then nobody [TS]

00:59:26   else is running on their underwear no [TS]

00:59:28   hmm but there's definitely smoke Oh [TS]

00:59:32   the street is full smoke coming and the [TS]

00:59:34   and the smoke cloud is 30 feet high I [TS]

00:59:37   mean it's like a well it's like a bomb [TS]

00:59:40   went off and two blocks down [TS]

00:59:47   there is a solitary figure dressed in [TS]

00:59:52   black and just before and he's at the [TS]

00:59:56   corner two blocks down and just before [TS]

00:59:59   he turns [TS]

00:59:59   he turns [TS]

01:00:00   he turns and stops and looks back at me [TS]

01:00:02   and I'm standing in my underwear in the [TS]

01:00:04   middle of his smoke cloud and it so this [TS]

01:00:08   this bomb had to have been on a long [TS]

01:00:13   fuse because he's not running he's fully [TS]

01:00:19   two blocks away and lit this either with [TS]

01:00:23   a with a fuse a lit fuse or on some kind [TS]

01:00:28   of timer or I don't think a remote [TS]

01:00:31   detonator of some kind but like to put a [TS]

01:00:35   thing to set off something like this in [TS]

01:00:37   front of in just a neighborhood Street [TS]

01:00:39   is one thing but to light it and walk [TS]

01:00:41   away two blocks away you have no idea [TS]

01:00:43   who's gonna come along right you could [TS]

01:00:45   be a block and a half away and all of a [TS]

01:00:47   sudden a family of five drives up in a [TS]

01:00:50   super bill you know like a yeah a [TS]

01:00:52   Griswold machine so and I stand in the [TS]

01:00:57   street and he stands in the street and [TS]

01:00:59   we look at each other across this long [TS]

01:01:01   distance I can't see his face he's just [TS]

01:01:03   a shadow and I'm like I'm in my bare [TS]

01:01:09   feet but I just wanted to sprint after [TS]

01:01:12   this guy but I just knew that it was not [TS]

01:01:15   it wasn't doable and so he turned the [TS]

01:01:20   corner and he and there was something in [TS]

01:01:21   his body language something in his [TS]

01:01:23   energy that was just like very much like [TS]

01:01:27   fuck you like just super it felt like [TS]

01:01:32   they felt like getting a glimpse of a [TS]

01:01:33   serial killer to me because I've been [TS]

01:01:35   listening to these bombs go off for a [TS]

01:01:37   decade and then one other time a a bomb [TS]

01:01:43   went off in my neighborhood like about [TS]

01:01:45   two blocks away [TS]

01:01:46   but close enough that I knew where it [TS]

01:01:48   happened and I jumped out put on my [TS]

01:01:51   shoes and ran the two blocks to that [TS]

01:01:54   location again a huge cloud of smoke [TS]

01:01:58   stuff still floating in the air and I [TS]

01:02:02   was hoping that I was coming the [TS]

01:02:03   direction that he was going but they [TS]

01:02:05   were but I saw no one and in that [TS]

01:02:07   situation there was somebody else that [TS]

01:02:09   came out of their house [TS]

01:02:10   stood there and looked at each other in [TS]

01:02:11   the street like what the fuck but I go [TS]

01:02:14   on the internet and and say you know [TS]

01:02:17   like who's setting off fucking bombs and [TS]

01:02:19   and you know there's so many NIMBYs and [TS]

01:02:22   neighborhood activists and people that [TS]

01:02:24   are on the internet like there's a [TS]

01:02:25   barking dog in my neighborhood yeah [TS]

01:02:27   right I can find nothing mm-hmm about [TS]

01:02:31   the Mad Bomber of South Seattle noticing [TS]

01:02:36   and that's so strange when that happens [TS]

01:02:38   I feel like I'm I'm a crazy person like [TS]

01:02:40   is no one else here these massive [TS]

01:02:44   explosions I mean I don't think that [TS]

01:02:46   he's ever doesn't seem like he's ever [TS]

01:02:47   hurt anybody I've never heard a police [TS]

01:02:49   car it never feels like I should call [TS]

01:02:52   the police because it's like well fait [TS]

01:02:53   accompli thing went off it's guy in a [TS]

01:02:55   black hoodies who knows nobody just [TS]

01:02:59   pranking everybody just pranking and [TS]

01:03:01   where does he get these amazing bombs [TS]

01:03:04   another thing I wanted but so I went on [TS]

01:03:08   the Internet [TS]

01:03:09   yeah and I googled soloed baseline of [TS]

01:03:13   burden in my hand I wanted to hear the [TS]

01:03:17   bass part because I felt like it was [TS]

01:03:20   really the secret to the song and of [TS]

01:03:25   course it's there it pops up and I [TS]

01:03:27   listen to it and it is really hard to [TS]

01:03:31   understand what is happening because [TS]

01:03:35   soul load it sounds very bad it doesn't [TS]

01:03:41   sound well played and it doesn't sound [TS]

01:03:45   well thought out it sounds kind of like [TS]

01:03:48   Ben Shephard through a bass down a [TS]

01:03:51   flight of stairs I'm listening it's got [TS]

01:03:55   a kind of meandering grungy feeling the [TS]

01:03:58   song or the baseline to baseline by [TS]

01:04:01   itself yeah at a great tone well even [TS]

01:04:06   you know yeah sort of but there are a [TS]

01:04:10   bunch of comments after the basement [TS]

01:04:14   afterwards on the youtubes the [TS]

01:04:15   sloppiness is part of his brilliance [TS]

01:04:17   yeah exactly and then a lot of other [TS]

01:04:19   people are like this is an amateur [TS]

01:04:21   garbage [TS]

01:04:22   for months well so then somebody in that [TS]

01:04:25   comment thread posted a thing where they [TS]

01:04:27   said you need to listen to this in the [TS]

01:04:28   context and they posted a thing where [TS]

01:04:30   the band is in the right channel and the [TS]

01:04:33   base is soloed in the left chance okay [TS]

01:04:35   and listening to not even you I mean at [TS]

01:04:45   least I think I get what he's doing I [TS]

01:04:50   get the bass part now I understand where [TS]

01:04:52   it lives but I'm just surprised he [TS]

01:04:55   didn't take another take like I'm [TS]

01:04:58   surprised that he didn't just try and go [TS]

01:05:01   and get it a little better mm-hmm and [TS]

01:05:03   this was a record that they recorded a [TS]

01:05:05   bad animals studio it must have been you [TS]

01:05:07   know $1500 a day in the studio this is a [TS]

01:05:11   major major professional rock album so [TS]

01:05:14   it had to be intentional everything [TS]

01:05:17   about it was intentional and when you [TS]

01:05:20   listen to the track it not only works it [TS]

01:05:24   works amazingly but there's nothing [TS]

01:05:27   about the part that would suggest it if [TS]

01:05:29   you were sitting in the studio and you [TS]

01:05:30   so load that bass part he tends I mean [TS]

01:05:34   he sounds I don't get in trouble with [TS]

01:05:36   this guy because he sounds like a tough [TS]

01:05:37   guy it says a little bit like a guitar [TS]

01:05:39   player playing a bass part yeah and [TS]

01:05:42   they're like weird hammer offs that just [TS]

01:05:45   sort of you know they're like like a [TS]

01:05:47   root in a fifth the root routing and [TS]

01:05:48   octaves and a lot of sliding around but [TS]

01:05:50   it's a sliding around yeah yeah [TS]

01:05:52   hammering and like just sort of fret [TS]

01:05:55   noise and clanks and clunks there are a [TS]

01:05:59   lot of clanks and clunks it's not a [TS]

01:06:01   family it's not a clean take um and I've [TS]

01:06:06   really been chewing on that bass part uh [TS]

01:06:09   for the last few weeks sort of like if [TS]

01:06:13   you walk out of Gallic guardians of the [TS]

01:06:15   galaxy are you thinking about the movie [TS]

01:06:18   afterwards I'm still thinking about [TS]

01:06:20   guardians of the galaxy where do you [TS]

01:06:21   stand it as of now the way she did [TS]

01:06:24   another take do I wish he had done [TS]

01:06:27   another take uh no because I think the [TS]

01:06:30   track is perfect what I listen to burden [TS]

01:06:33   in my hand I do not think oh I wish that [TS]

01:06:36   the [TS]

01:06:36   song was better like it I do feel within [TS]

01:06:39   at least the Soundgarden style it's it's [TS]

01:06:44   a high watermark for Soundgarden and yet [TS]

01:06:49   I cannot as a recordist and a person [TS]

01:06:53   that's making rock albums I cannot I [TS]

01:06:56   cannot picture myself in the studio as [TS]

01:07:00   the guy as the star of the band [TS]

01:07:03   listening to that bass take and saying [TS]

01:07:06   great write print it and so it's another [TS]

01:07:12   example another piece of evidence that [TS]

01:07:13   I'm missing something or you know that I [TS]

01:07:19   that that there is a that that's a form [TS]

01:07:23   of perfection but if it works for their [TS]

01:07:26   song it works right well but that's [TS]

01:07:29   exactly right and that's what we're [TS]

01:07:31   saying about George Harrison BAM all [TS]

01:07:33   right yeah but if you solo things which [TS]

01:07:37   is what you do in a studio like you [TS]

01:07:40   record the bass part live with the band [TS]

01:07:42   and then you go and you solo things to [TS]

01:07:44   hear how they sound to make sure that [TS]

01:07:45   they all line up and they work contrary [TS]

01:07:48   to what you might imagine listening to a [TS]

01:07:50   song or an album like for the early [TS]

01:07:53   stages of that song you're doing nothing [TS]

01:07:56   but listening to solo solo or grouped [TS]

01:08:00   instruments like for a long you don't [TS]

01:08:01   get to hear what the song really sounds [TS]

01:08:03   like really for a long time you've [TS]

01:08:05   probably heard that bass line you know [TS]

01:08:08   numerous numerous times by its size yeah [TS]

01:08:10   or oh and usually you're listening to it [TS]

01:08:13   with the drums right and you're saying [TS]

01:08:15   does this does this work and even if it [TS]

01:08:18   was working with the drums when you so [TS]

01:08:21   load it and you heard all the noise and [TS]

01:08:23   the chaos I cannot imagine that the [TS]

01:08:29   people who were getting paid big big [TS]

01:08:30   dollars to do this had the the [TS]

01:08:36   cleverness I guess to say that's done I [TS]

01:08:39   see you know because they because I [TS]

01:08:43   would assume that they would be trying [TS]

01:08:45   to justify their enormous salaries by [TS]

01:08:47   saying let's do this 50 times until you [TS]

01:08:50   get it right and that's the somewhere in [TS]

01:08:55   the chain either Ben Shepard was like [TS]

01:08:57   that's perfect I'm not doing it again [TS]

01:08:59   which requires either tremendous [TS]

01:09:02   confidence from him or tremendous fuck [TS]

01:09:04   you a tude or the producer heard it and [TS]

01:09:08   was like I wouldn't change a thing which [TS]

01:09:10   is super smart or like crazy smart or [TS]

01:09:14   Chris Cornell is like nope that's our [TS]

01:09:17   sound I mean somewhere somebody made a [TS]

01:09:19   stand for that bass line I guess is what [TS]

01:09:21   I'm saying yeah I see SM and I don't see [TS]

01:09:24   how you could make a stand about that [TS]

01:09:26   particular part so all these little all [TS]

01:09:31   these little bread crumbs crumbs that [TS]

01:09:32   that that the world leaves behind that [TS]

01:09:37   if you're if you you find them you walk [TS]

01:09:39   through the forest and you find this I'm [TS]

01:09:40   gonna pick it up and you look at and you [TS]

01:09:42   go what's the story here how how does [TS]

01:09:44   this acquit with my theory of how good [TS]

01:09:50   things get made one of the reasons I was [TS]

01:09:55   up late I've been watching a lot of [TS]

01:09:56   videos from this guy Adam Neely who has [TS]

01:09:58   a really I think a really good YouTube [TS]

01:10:00   channel um he's a bass player a [TS]

01:10:03   multi-instrumentalist but mainly a bass [TS]

01:10:04   player and he's a teacher he teaches [TS]

01:10:06   music and he did this thing I think this [TS]

01:10:10   is the right one a familiar with the [TS]

01:10:14   notion of Hockett no hoc ke T and it [TS]

01:10:23   basically he lays out like with music [TS]

01:10:25   and with showing you the notation it's a [TS]

01:10:26   little bit it's kind of like it's where [TS]

01:10:29   basically you break up the rhythm across [TS]

01:10:33   multiple voices or instruments where [TS]

01:10:35   there's like sort of a continuation and [TS]

01:10:36   a coverage and you give this kind of [TS]

01:10:38   strange like magical quality to having [TS]

01:10:42   passing off the melody to different [TS]

01:10:44   instruments I mean here a lot you might [TS]

01:10:46   hear a lot in like I'm guessing like I [TS]

01:10:47   want to say like Bebop weird like [TS]

01:10:49   somebody will continue the line or [TS]

01:10:50   something like that but this is also [TS]

01:10:52   like by design you can be write this in [TS]

01:10:55   such a way that this voice starts that [TS]

01:10:57   this hands off to this voice maybe [TS]

01:10:59   there's a harmony but it completes and [TS]

01:11:01   it's but it's one of those things were [TS]

01:11:02   like I have never [TS]

01:11:04   given that much thought to something [TS]

01:11:06   like this even existing but like once [TS]

01:11:08   it's explained to you it's kind of a [TS]

01:11:10   mind blower and you go back and you [TS]

01:11:11   listen to stuff and you're like wow you [TS]

01:11:13   would have to be so trusting of the [TS]

01:11:14   people in this Corral to attempt [TS]

01:11:16   something like this and I don't know if [TS]

01:11:18   I'm describing it very well but but you [TS]

01:11:20   it's maybe a little bit I want to say a [TS]

01:11:22   little bit like a cannon but something [TS]

01:11:23   where there might be some repetition but [TS]

01:11:24   you're like handing off in music haka is [TS]

01:11:27   the rhythmic linear technique using the [TS]

01:11:28   alternation of notes pitches or chords [TS]

01:11:30   as a single melody shared between two or [TS]

01:11:33   occasionally more voices such that [TS]

01:11:35   alternately one voice sounds while the [TS]

01:11:37   other rests right and one example he [TS]

01:11:40   gives is you know that Daft Punk song [TS]

01:11:43   faster make it that oh the faster [TS]

01:11:45   stronger [TS]

01:11:46   yeah like were you like passing you're [TS]

01:11:47   like but you can do more easily [TS]

01:11:49   electronically I guess but like I don't [TS]

01:11:51   know I I'm I'm still so interested in [TS]

01:11:53   learning about this kind of stuff [TS]

01:11:54   because then you go back and you listen [TS]

01:11:56   to stuff again you're just like this is [TS]

01:11:57   like triply amazing to me now that [TS]

01:11:59   somebody pulled this off yeah yeah I [TS]

01:12:03   change the change the subject little on [TS]

01:12:05   you there no not at all not at all I [TS]

01:12:07   think that that is that reality as [TS]

01:12:09   mental realities right both well and and [TS]

01:12:12   and you say you say collaboration a lot [TS]

01:12:15   and I think it is it's important to hear [TS]

01:12:18   the word collaboration over and over [TS]

01:12:20   it's important for me to think about [TS]

01:12:23   collaboration I am now I don't want to [TS]

01:12:26   give too much away I don't want to [TS]

01:12:28   spoiler alert oh no I do want a spoiler [TS]

01:12:31   alert I don't want to spoiler [TS]

01:12:32   okay thank you I don't want to alert hmm [TS]

01:12:36   but I am embarking upon a new thing in [TS]

01:12:42   multiple different venues where I am [TS]

01:12:45   intentionally collaborating that's been [TS]

01:12:48   the never you in the past hasn't it it [TS]

01:12:50   it has and I forget it over and over and [TS]

01:12:54   because I think that what I want is to [TS]

01:12:56   be left alone and I think that that it's [TS]

01:13:00   you know like hard to collaborate and it [TS]

01:13:03   is but like that track that I sent to [TS]

01:13:07   Amy that ended up on her record [TS]

01:13:09   it wasn't exactly a pure collaboration [TS]

01:13:12   in the sense that I wrote a thing and I [TS]

01:13:16   sent it to her [TS]

01:13:17   wasn't a bunch of back-and-forth I sent [TS]

01:13:20   it to her she added her parts it was a [TS]

01:13:23   completed thing and and so but it did [TS]

01:13:28   feel like I had to surrender this thing [TS]

01:13:30   I had written it I was proud of it I [TS]

01:13:32   thought it was good I had a very strong [TS]

01:13:33   idea about where it should go [TS]

01:13:35   I handed it to her she went where she [TS]

01:13:38   wanted it to go and it became an Amy man [TS]

01:13:41   song because you don't give a song to a [TS]

01:13:44   me man and then have it be anything [TS]

01:13:46   other right if she's gonna use it it [TS]

01:13:47   becomes hers and she did she did an [TS]

01:13:50   amazing work right she she wrote the [TS]

01:13:52   bridge which i think is a great bridge [TS]

01:13:54   like she she made it hers and I had to I [TS]

01:13:59   had to say goodbye thing that I made [TS]

01:14:02   right have a new life somewhere else go [TS]

01:14:05   to college in a different town but it [TS]

01:14:09   was it and it wasn't easy because it's [TS]

01:14:12   like but I wanted to be the one that did [TS]

01:14:14   everything right that's that's what I do [TS]

01:14:16   yeah but it turned out great and it [TS]

01:14:19   lives in the world right now and I and [TS]

01:14:22   it was a reminder don't be precious make [TS]

01:14:25   your thing hand it off you know you eat [TS]

01:14:28   everything is a collaboration in that [TS]

01:14:30   when you hand it off to the world they [TS]

01:14:32   add their two cents right like somebody [TS]

01:14:35   else loving a thing and loving it in [TS]

01:14:38   their own way like adds to what the [TS]

01:14:40   thing is that's going to put it so I'm [TS]

01:14:43   collaborating now with two different [TS]

01:14:46   people [TS]

01:14:47   more broadly where I'm like let's do [TS]

01:14:50   this together let's do this project [TS]

01:14:52   together and boy Merlin is it hard just [TS]

01:14:56   to say that over and over because the [TS]

01:14:58   person comes back and they're like great [TS]

01:14:59   while I was thinking that I would put I [TS]

01:15:01   would play you know I would call it [TS]

01:15:04   Connecticut and put a whipped cream on [TS]

01:15:06   it and I'm like I don't that's not what [TS]

01:15:10   I had in mind [TS]

01:15:11   I don't even know what you just said and [TS]

01:15:13   they're like no no it's going to be [TS]

01:15:14   great Connecticut that's what we're [TS]

01:15:15   calling it now and but it has so far [TS]

01:15:21   I've picked a couple of collaborators or [TS]

01:15:23   they picked me who are exciting and [TS]

01:15:27   we're doing something that I wouldn't do [TS]

01:15:30   otherwise [TS]

01:15:31   so boy I'm every day I'm I'm trying to [TS]

01:15:36   wake up and say you can't do this by [TS]

01:15:38   yourself nothing good is going to come [TS]

01:15:41   of do you doing it by yourself you have [TS]

01:15:42   to you have to live in the world an [TS]

01:15:47   interesting analog that jump straight to [TS]

01:15:49   mind as I read more stuff in like New [TS]

01:15:52   York Times Washington Post I've [TS]

01:15:54   subscribed to those and I read them a [TS]

01:15:55   lot is I think about um there's a writer [TS]

01:15:57   I like a lot of the New York Times [TS]

01:15:58   Maggie Haberman I like her Twitter I [TS]

01:16:01   like when she's interviewed on shows and [TS]

01:16:03   I enjoy when she is on the byline and [TS]

01:16:07   frequently she's not alone on the byline [TS]

01:16:11   these days you know with this fast news [TS]

01:16:13   cycle and all this crazy stuff coming [TS]

01:16:14   out and the leaks and everything you [TS]

01:16:16   know she might be one of often to [TS]

01:16:20   occasionally three and sometimes many [TS]

01:16:22   more people and for some reason that [TS]

01:16:23   leaps to mind for me or maybe it's a [TS]

01:16:26   little bit like the wu-tang clan I don't [TS]

01:16:27   know but like with her like I'm just I'm [TS]

01:16:29   because I know that because I like the [TS]

01:16:32   stuff that she does I could not tell you [TS]

01:16:33   which sentence she wrote in this [TS]

01:16:35   particular article but but I know that I [TS]

01:16:39   really I like her work even when I can't [TS]

01:16:42   identify which part it was that she made [TS]

01:16:44   and I'm not saying that works across the [TS]

01:16:46   board for collaborations like you can [TS]

01:16:48   tell like John wrote that bridge that [TS]

01:16:50   was not a paul bridge that was a john [TS]

01:16:52   bridge like you can tell those kind of [TS]

01:16:53   things but I guess I'm just saying like [TS]

01:16:54   maybe that's one model to think about [TS]

01:16:56   because there's a little hidden part in [TS]

01:16:58   that that I think is interesting Maggie [TS]

01:17:00   Haberman is not gonna spend four years [TS]

01:17:02   to write one article she's got to put [TS]

01:17:03   stuff out every day sometimes more than [TS]

01:17:05   once a day so that it seems to me that [TS]

01:17:08   the idea of having to produce and I [TS]

01:17:10   realize of you know a rock album is not [TS]

01:17:12   the same thing as a news article but I [TS]

01:17:14   am saying that like the pressure to [TS]

01:17:16   release often combined with the need to [TS]

01:17:19   have ad hoc short term relationships [TS]

01:17:20   with other people who do what you do [TS]

01:17:22   must make you pretty cool about you [TS]

01:17:25   would have to get okay with how you [TS]

01:17:27   collaborate with people you couldn't [TS]

01:17:28   spend five years at that job saying no I [TS]

01:17:30   want the only byline on this and like [TS]

01:17:32   well no that's that's not how this works [TS]

01:17:33   in this in this economy and in this [TS]

01:17:35   environment like this is how we produce [TS]

01:17:37   news stories but that again that though [TS]

01:17:40   that pressure of like some somebody I [TS]

01:17:41   don't know and actually I would love to [TS]

01:17:43   be a fly on the wall for figuring out [TS]

01:17:44   who [TS]

01:17:44   sign to water who chooses what but you [TS]

01:17:46   take my meaning a little bit but yes you [TS]

01:17:49   seems like you would have to get less [TS]

01:17:50   Precious about whether it's good enough [TS]

01:17:52   and ready enough you have to get less [TS]

01:17:54   Precious about like putting your own ego [TS]

01:17:56   aside and I guess ultimately maybe you [TS]

01:17:57   know it could be an editor who's going [TS]

01:17:59   to make those kinds of decisions but did [TS]

01:18:01   you see any an analogy there well yeah [TS]

01:18:04   and I and honestly when you put it that [TS]

01:18:08   way the way that they have to be [TS]

01:18:11   thinking is that it's about the work [TS]

01:18:13   it's about it'll eventually put out we [TS]

01:18:16   know there's going to be a story that's [TS]

01:18:17   mostly about this topic or topics needs [TS]

01:18:19   to come out in the next few hours so how [TS]

01:18:21   do we collapse on them yeah right and [TS]

01:18:23   and it isn't it they're just not [TS]

01:18:25   thinking about the they're not thinking [TS]

01:18:27   about their solo right they're just like [TS]

01:18:30   the my job is to put this out or not to [TS]

01:18:35   be remembered and then consequently they [TS]

01:18:40   get remember difficult to do so [TS]

01:18:42   different I know I know oh the bastards [TS]

01:18:46   but I mean else I just did further on to [TS]

01:18:48   music though um I'm trying to think like [TS]

01:18:51   I don't know that much about like the [TS]

01:18:53   personalities of the various jazz [TS]

01:18:56   musicians but I mean you think about [TS]

01:18:58   somebody like Max Roach for example is [TS]

01:19:03   one that comes to mind we're like you [TS]

01:19:05   know I can't always identify every [TS]

01:19:08   drummer on every pop album but I'm often [TS]

01:19:11   often as not I am unsurprised to find [TS]

01:19:14   out that was telling max rich playing on [TS]

01:19:15   that because you guys have a certain [TS]

01:19:17   style but in jazz like when you're in a [TS]

01:19:18   small combo it's it seems like like just [TS]

01:19:21   to even get noticed to get noticed to [TS]

01:19:25   get invited up like all the kinds of [TS]

01:19:27   things that you would hope for when [TS]

01:19:28   you're starting out a huge piece of that [TS]

01:19:30   is how well you play with others and [TS]

01:19:31   like if you go up there your first day [TS]

01:19:33   this your first day you show up and you [TS]

01:19:35   start rapping about that bap bap bap bap [TS]

01:19:37   bap bap when nobody else is even playing [TS]

01:19:38   yet like you're gonna you're gonna kind [TS]

01:19:40   of get clocked as a loser [TS]

01:19:42   like Luigi ality and listening and that [TS]

01:19:46   kind of as I say collaboration the the [TS]

01:19:49   maybe the ironic turns out part is that [TS]

01:19:51   would make you very desirable to other [TS]

01:19:52   people like you've got chops when you [TS]

01:19:54   get your eight bars but you're not [TS]

01:19:56   stepping on everybody's stuff and you're [TS]

01:19:58   you know I mean you know how to be [TS]

01:19:59   classy onstage with other people be [TS]

01:20:01   supportive and then like respond to what [TS]

01:20:03   they're doing and where you don't like [TS]

01:20:05   wave your arms around and say okay [TS]

01:20:06   everybody stop this wasn't what I [TS]

01:20:07   intended I have a I have a friend here [TS]

01:20:10   in Seattle who is making a TV show and [TS]

01:20:13   she has a she's the writer of the head [TS]

01:20:18   writer and also the showrunner and she [TS]

01:20:20   has a writing staff that she has [TS]

01:20:23   compiled from the ranks right people [TS]

01:20:27   that wrote for Gracey and Frank or [TS]

01:20:29   people that wrote for my own private [TS]

01:20:32   Idaho or people that I don't know [TS]

01:20:34   writers all the great chefs that have [TS]

01:20:36   that have their own that have you know [TS]

01:20:39   that have credits yeah and she said I [TS]

01:20:43   was talking to her the other day we went [TS]

01:20:45   to a baseball game and she said you know [TS]

01:20:47   normally what happens a person in my [TS]

01:20:48   position they have this team of writers [TS]

01:20:50   that have been put together to write [TS]

01:20:52   their show and everybody rights and [TS]

01:20:53   rights and rights and we all write [TS]

01:20:54   script and then I would put my name on [TS]

01:20:57   it and they would be being paid to do [TS]

01:21:01   this work like Lena Dunham and it's a [TS]

01:21:07   Joss Whedon who's her collaborator I [TS]

01:21:09   [Music] [TS]

01:21:10   don't know yeah like another writer on [TS]

01:21:14   girls [TS]

01:21:16   yeah well producer of girls oh yes it's [TS]

01:21:19   like right yeah famous guy [TS]

01:21:21   film film person okay move movie person [TS]

01:21:24   maybe he made super bad or 40 year old [TS]

01:21:27   virgin Apatow yeah [TS]

01:21:30   Apatow if you look at the entire season [TS]

01:21:34   all the seasons of those shows those two [TS]

01:21:36   I think man maybe with one other person [TS]

01:21:38   are credited with having written all the [TS]

01:21:41   show I've heard that they wrote almost [TS]

01:21:43   all of them yeah and but there is a [TS]

01:21:46   writing staff right there are people [TS]

01:21:47   that are brighter that are working on [TS]

01:21:49   the show there and those writers are [TS]

01:21:52   writing but they're not they're not they [TS]

01:21:56   don't take the ultimate credit for the [TS]

01:21:57   script and and my friend who is making [TS]

01:22:01   this TV show said you know what I did I [TS]

01:22:03   ended up just giving each one of my [TS]

01:22:06   writers a script you know they're going [TS]

01:22:08   to we're all going to write just like a [TS]

01:22:10   normal TV show but I'm going to give [TS]

01:22:11   each one of them the credit for it [TS]

01:22:13   because I don't need that like I'm a [TS]

01:22:16   successful person I don't need to also [TS]

01:22:18   own all the scripts even though their [TS]

01:22:20   first time as the showrunner will have a [TS]

01:22:21   heavy influence on how it gets edited [TS]

01:22:23   and implemented Oh for shizzle and [TS]

01:22:26   she'll have the final edit the final [TS]

01:22:28   writing uh shield she will do that work [TS]

01:22:31   she just won't take the credit and she [TS]

01:22:33   said you know if you get a script it's [TS]

01:22:34   an extra thinking $50,000 to this person [TS]

01:22:37   that's a little yeah why be greedy but [TS]

01:22:39   she said one of the writers you know [TS]

01:22:42   everybody on this on this show has [TS]

01:22:45   multiple credits of TV shows except for [TS]

01:22:48   this one young playwright that she hired [TS]

01:22:52   who was you know some fresh out of [TS]

01:22:56   college gal from you know some college [TS]

01:23:00   uh-huh who's a talented young playwright [TS]

01:23:02   and and she's on the writing staff and I [TS]

01:23:06   and and by this description I imagine [TS]

01:23:09   that she's pretty young right early [TS]

01:23:10   early to mid-20s not having worked in [TS]

01:23:15   television before not having been a part [TS]

01:23:18   of a writing staff but just somebody [TS]

01:23:19   that was writing plays and and my friend [TS]

01:23:25   described her as like she knows exactly [TS]

01:23:27   what to do in the writing room which is [TS]

01:23:29   to not say anything until there is a [TS]

01:23:34   time for her to say something and then [TS]

01:23:36   when she says something is brilliant [TS]

01:23:37   uh-huh she waits for a shot and I was [TS]

01:23:40   like boom well done and so my friend [TS]

01:23:42   said I'm giving her a script to which no [TS]

01:23:48   one can believe right that's because [TS]

01:23:50   this absence such a noob in this medium [TS]

01:23:52   yeah it's just not done you know like [TS]

01:23:54   this person's twenty five you don't give [TS]

01:23:56   them a script but like she earned it by [TS]

01:24:02   knowing her job right by not being the [TS]

01:24:05   one that was standing on the table like [TS]

01:24:06   no no no no right right but by being by [TS]

01:24:10   being consistently good and also knowing [TS]

01:24:12   how to be patient so I mean that show is [TS]

01:24:18   in development and I have my fingers [TS]

01:24:21   crossed about it but but that kind of [TS]

01:24:24   glimpse into [TS]

01:24:25   a world where it also requires that that [TS]

01:24:29   my friend who is not you know above like [TS]

01:24:31   wanting to be known and make money and [TS]

01:24:34   and and be a famous person is able to [TS]

01:24:39   say like the collaborative nature of [TS]

01:24:41   this is important enough to it getting [TS]

01:24:43   done that there should also be some [TS]

01:24:46   acknowledgement than some reward that's [TS]

01:24:51   also like spooned out to everybody [TS]

01:24:53   because these people are working their [TS]

01:24:55   butts off and even though they're lucky [TS]

01:24:57   to be here [TS]

01:24:58   yeah it doesn't mean that that they [TS]

01:25:02   should that they should have to pay to [TS]

01:25:05   play I can show is it just generally is [TS]

01:25:10   it drama [TS]

01:25:12   uh you know what I don't know why I'm [TS]

01:25:16   being so coy about it um my friend is [TS]

01:25:20   Maria Semple who wrote where'd you go [TS]

01:25:24   Bernadette and two things are currently [TS]

01:25:31   in development one of them is a film [TS]

01:25:35   being made of where'd you go Bernadette [TS]

01:25:38   which is being made and I think that [TS]

01:25:44   Maria has sort of had she had her input [TS]

01:25:47   into it and now has sort of stepped away [TS]

01:25:49   from the making of the film she's not [TS]

01:25:51   like a daily presence on the film but [TS]

01:25:54   there's also a television show that is [TS]

01:25:57   being developed so it's like a time it [TS]

01:26:00   is I don't know listening to Maria talk [TS]

01:26:05   about it it is like until the show is on [TS]

01:26:08   the air you cannot be confident oh yeah [TS]

01:26:13   sure alright shows you know though [TS]

01:26:16   they'll spend a hundred million dollars [TS]

01:26:17   making a show and then at the last [TS]

01:26:19   minute just decide to pull it and put on [TS]

01:26:20   ABC's Wide World of Sports Wide World of [TS]

01:26:25   Sports [TS]

01:26:25   quite a cash got for the movie Kate [TS]

01:26:27   Blanchet Kristen Wiig Judy Greer Billy [TS]

01:26:30   Crudup you got dr. manhattan's yes right [TS]

01:26:34   big penis man big penis big blue penis [TS]

01:26:36   John yep [TS]

01:26:37   big blue penis man [TS]

01:26:39   um yes it's a great cast and and then [TS]

01:26:45   the TV show also is pretty extraordinary [TS]

01:26:51   but I'm guessing that there's nothing oh [TS]

01:26:54   well there there's the article right [TS]

01:26:56   there so it's something I don't have to [TS]

01:26:57   it's in The Hollywood Reporter Julia [TS]

01:27:00   Roberts is playing Maria Semple oh my in [TS]

01:27:03   the in the television show that they are [TS]

01:27:05   developing and the show and it's about [TS]

01:27:10   her second book or their her follow-up [TS]

01:27:12   to where'd you go Bernadette called [TS]

01:27:14   today will be different which is ah at [TS]

01:27:17   your local bookstore on sale now so [TS]

01:27:20   Julia Roberts it's very unusual I mean [TS]

01:27:24   even for me to have a friend who is [TS]

01:27:26   being played by Julia Roberts on a TV [TS]

01:27:29   show get up to that but all for you [TS]

01:27:31   don't get that more than maybe four or [TS]

01:27:32   five times in your life right right like [TS]

01:27:35   sitting at a baseball game talking about [TS]

01:27:36   a TV show that is where Julia Roberts is [TS]

01:27:39   is the you know the star but Maria is [TS]

01:27:44   show running the show in addition to [TS]

01:27:46   having uh written the book and in [TS]

01:27:50   addition to being the kids main [TS]

01:27:52   character of the TV show and god am I [TS]

01:27:55   getting some lessons about collaboration [TS]

01:27:58   um it's just really heavy to watch how [TS]

01:28:01   much work has to go into making this [TS]

01:28:03   thing and how much self-effacement has [TS]

01:28:07   to happen how much like stepping back [TS]

01:28:09   and saying in order to make this big [TS]

01:28:14   thing work I have to let I have to let [TS]

01:28:18   people do their jobs Oh God [TS]

01:28:19   I can only imagine I can oh I can only [TS]

01:28:23   imagine there must be so much stuff [TS]

01:28:26   where you have to make a pretty fast [TS]

01:28:28   decision about well am I going to get [TS]

01:28:31   big deal out of this would be one [TS]

01:28:32   another one would be if this does happen [TS]

01:28:34   how likely is this thing to happen right [TS]

01:28:37   and if it does happen like what are the [TS]

01:28:38   likely consequences and you start doing [TS]

01:28:40   a little bit of like thinking you know [TS]

01:28:42   chest style a little bit ahead but I I [TS]

01:28:44   just I can't even imagine and you got [TS]

01:28:46   the whole time you got to stay cool and [TS]

01:28:47   keep your powder dry yeah I got so much [TS]

01:28:52   in with the writer Elizabeth Gilbert [TS]

01:28:53   you've met having I I have met Elizabeth [TS]

01:28:57   Gilbert she and I have spent some time [TS]

01:29:00   together okay so now you know two people [TS]

01:29:03   portrayed by Julia Roberts in a film [TS]

01:29:06   kind of film oh holy shit yeah that's [TS]

01:29:08   two we should probably look into this [TS]

01:29:10   see if there's any others you know it [TS]

01:29:11   could be done to you do you think this [TS]

01:29:13   is a situation where in the rest of my [TS]

01:29:15   life there will be two more people that [TS]

01:29:17   I know Tyler for Trinity Roberts [TS]

01:29:20   I think there will be at least one more [TS]

01:29:22   clearly Wow do you think maybe I will [TS]

01:29:26   ever be portrayed by Julia Roberts in a [TS]

01:29:29   film mm-hmm probably like a [TS]

01:29:31   fictionalized version of me I think it [TS]

01:29:34   would probably be Tilda Swinton playing [TS]

01:29:37   Julia Roberts playing you I think it [TS]

01:29:39   might have some laughs it might be it [TS]

01:29:40   might be a South Korean movie I think [TS]

01:29:42   it's going to have a lot of layers to it [TS]

01:29:44   and yeah and there's no question I think [TS]

01:29:46   that still counts you think it might be [TS]

01:29:48   like a Being John Malkovich situation [TS]

01:29:50   where people are just like Malkovich [TS]

01:29:52   Malkovich I never saw that whole movie [TS]

01:29:54   my own urn on DVD and I still never seen [TS]

01:29:55   the whole thing [TS]

01:29:57   hast we new here show us a full frontal [TS]

01:30:00   well she's been in a lot of movies look [TS]

01:30:02   at that she has she's uh she's a good [TS]

01:30:05   actress [TS]

01:30:05   and you know Maria speaks highly ever [TS]

01:30:08   you know um you know who knows so maybe [TS]

01:30:13   we'll all go to a ballgame or or a movie [TS]

01:30:17   um it's a whole maybe looking behind [TS]

01:30:19   their van and pick you up but it's such [TS]

01:30:21   a whole different set of skills it's [TS]

01:30:22   it's one reason I am so reluctant to [TS]

01:30:24   utterly poopoo the experience one gets [TS]

01:30:27   from team sports and being in the [TS]

01:30:29   military um because uh you know if [TS]

01:30:32   you've made it through film school for [TS]

01:30:34   example you've almost certainly had to [TS]

01:30:35   collaborate with people but you know [TS]

01:30:37   you're collaborating probably mostly [TS]

01:30:39   with other students but the the skills [TS]

01:30:42   that made you good at what you are as a [TS]

01:30:44   musician a rock musician as a stand-up [TS]

01:30:48   comic as there's all kinds of things [TS]

01:30:49   where you can hone elements of what you [TS]

01:30:53   do even publicly kind of mostly by [TS]

01:30:57   yourself not always true comedians have [TS]

01:30:58   people write jokes for them you know [TS]

01:31:00   obviously if you're if you're the [TS]

01:31:01   director you also gotta have a [TS]

01:31:03   cinematographer etc etc [TS]

01:31:05   like it's um it's like so many jobs it [TS]

01:31:10   means the full weight of what's involved [TS]

01:31:12   in what you're doing may not be fully [TS]

01:31:14   upon you until you're like getting ready [TS]

01:31:16   to go into production where like you may [TS]

01:31:17   realize and I get I mean you get that [TS]

01:31:19   because you've had successes in the past [TS]

01:31:21   but it is it's kind of weird you think [TS]

01:31:24   about something like Herb Alpert like [TS]

01:31:26   herb Albert I think started primarily as [TS]

01:31:28   a trumpet player and then he became like [TS]

01:31:30   a trumpet player with a band and then [TS]

01:31:32   became a trumpet player with a band he [TS]

01:31:33   was it sometimes sing not very well and [TS]

01:31:35   then fast forward just a little bit and [TS]

01:31:37   he's the guy who started anm records [TS]

01:31:39   right and there's that kind of classic [TS]

01:31:42   celebrity refusenik idea of the person [TS]

01:31:44   who's always taking every job to get the [TS]

01:31:46   next higher up level job but like some [TS]

01:31:49   people just want to be implementers some [TS]

01:31:50   people I don't say just be a [TS]

01:31:52   cinematographer because there's a lot to [TS]

01:31:53   that but there's a lot of practitioners [TS]

01:31:56   who like the piece of the pieces of the [TS]

01:31:59   puzzle that they're responsible for they [TS]

01:32:01   don't they don't want to be the [TS]

01:32:02   showrunner necessarily you know I wonder [TS]

01:32:05   I wonder I don't know there are some [TS]

01:32:07   people who just seem like wunderkind [TS]

01:32:08   where you're like we know they've done [TS]

01:32:09   one thing and now they're getting all [TS]

01:32:11   these offers and they keep you'll get [TS]

01:32:12   somebody like let's go say Damon [TS]

01:32:14   Lindelof but especially Noah Hawley the [TS]

01:32:15   guy who did Fargo and Legion and like [TS]

01:32:19   he's doing so many things and it just [TS]

01:32:21   seems like he he he just never misses a [TS]

01:32:24   pitch but there's a there's people [TS]

01:32:28   skills at the heart of all of those [TS]

01:32:30   kinds of jobs and like it seems like [TS]

01:32:32   there's always this potential disaster [TS]

01:32:34   if you try to move into an increasingly [TS]

01:32:36   people centric job when you are [TS]

01:32:38   primarily a gifted and mercurial [TS]

01:32:40   practitioner I'm starting to get it a [TS]

01:32:45   little bit that you know through years [TS]

01:32:51   and years right we've talked about [TS]

01:32:52   intelligence as being not a single thing [TS]

01:32:55   right the first time somebody said oh [TS]

01:32:58   that person has emotional intelligence I [TS]

01:33:01   remember thinking that it was a kind of [TS]

01:33:04   a revolutionary thought technology like [TS]

01:33:06   oh right yeah that had no one had ever [TS]

01:33:09   spoken that idea before and now we have [TS]

01:33:12   the concept of emotional intelligence to [TS]

01:33:14   work with [TS]

01:33:15   yeah you know we had street smarts but [TS]

01:33:19   street smarts you know didn't it it [TS]

01:33:23   clearly wasn't being discussed as a kind [TS]

01:33:26   of intelligence as much as it wasn't [TS]

01:33:28   kind of smarts just the use of the word [TS]

01:33:31   smarts took some of the power away but [TS]

01:33:35   now we think of intelligence as being [TS]

01:33:37   this you know this multifaceted thing [TS]

01:33:40   and you can have the mathematical [TS]

01:33:42   intelligence or you can have a lot of [TS]

01:33:45   different kinds of intelligence well [TS]

01:33:46   like if you you see if you observe [TS]

01:33:48   people in your life whose skill with [TS]

01:33:51   something seems not only impossibly easy [TS]

01:33:54   they seem impossibly confident but like [TS]

01:33:56   it's if it feels like magic to you that [TS]

01:33:59   somebody is capable of that there's [TS]

01:34:01   probably some chance that they have an X [TS]

01:34:03   fill-in-the-blank intelligence that you [TS]

01:34:06   lack and and and I think my maybe this [TS]

01:34:10   is from my era or just maybe this is [TS]

01:34:14   natural but I always think of them as [TS]

01:34:16   being smarter somehow how is joss whedon [TS]

01:34:19   capable of all this got to be smart [TS]

01:34:22   somehow and so I don't know if we talked [TS]

01:34:26   about this last week but I just met [TS]

01:34:27   Tommy Gevinson yeah a Mishnah and what [TS]

01:34:31   was what stood out about her was that [TS]

01:34:33   she was very smart like clearly a very [TS]

01:34:38   very smart person but over time I've met [TS]

01:34:44   a lot of people who are very [TS]

01:34:46   accomplished and it isn't their [TS]

01:34:49   smartness that stands out right I mean [TS]

01:34:51   John Hodgman is smart Maria Semple is [TS]

01:34:53   smart they're very smart yeah but it's [TS]

01:34:55   not like they are unnaturally smart or [TS]

01:34:59   smart to a point where you can it where [TS]

01:35:02   their accomplishment can be attributed [TS]

01:35:04   to their smartness and Tommy is young [TS]

01:35:08   not not she can't possibly have the [TS]

01:35:11   experiences that an older person has had [TS]

01:35:13   but and she's very smart clearly but [TS]

01:35:17   there's something else and it's this it [TS]

01:35:19   is this quality of being it's the self [TS]

01:35:25   possession or whatever whatever that [TS]

01:35:27   neil young young neil young feel [TS]

01:35:29   is where they just are following their [TS]

01:35:33   own star but without without a lot of [TS]

01:35:39   Jim Morrison trappings you know it's [TS]

01:35:42   just when something comes onto their [TS]

01:35:44   desk they have a they have a skill of [TS]

01:35:47   being able to say this isn't what I'm [TS]

01:35:51   doing this just isn't what I'm doing [TS]

01:35:53   this thing mm-hmm and I didn't have that [TS]

01:35:56   everything came on my desk and I was [TS]

01:35:58   like maybe I'll be a Shakespearean actor [TS]

01:36:01   and there wasn't a thing in my head that [TS]

01:36:04   was like no that's not what you're doing [TS]

01:36:06   you're not doing a Shakespeare thing in [TS]

01:36:07   life and so I spent however many hours [TS]

01:36:11   however many daydream hours imagining [TS]

01:36:15   shakes imagining that I would do [TS]

01:36:17   Shakespeare and you know maybe burned a [TS]

01:36:20   lot of time yeah could I lose you no no [TS]

01:36:27   I'm done I'm thinking about it I don't [TS]

01:36:31   know I mean as one of those things that [TS]

01:36:33   is it's a little bit of an obsession for [TS]

01:36:35   me I don't know I've said so much about [TS]

01:36:38   this so many places but it still [TS]

01:36:39   continues to dog me is the incredible [TS]

01:36:41   gulf between how it feels like in your [TS]

01:36:45   terms when you put your hands around it [TS]

01:36:46   the incredible gulf between the idea of [TS]

01:36:50   doing something and what happens when [TS]

01:36:53   you actually have to do that thing and [TS]

01:36:55   you know when we say have to that you're [TS]

01:36:57   committed to that there's like there's a [TS]

01:36:59   budget there's a timeline all that kind [TS]

01:37:00   of stuff but just it's uh it can [TS]

01:37:03   sometimes be so shocking yeah I hate to [TS]

01:37:06   repeat myself but no I I do still I do [TS]

01:37:09   still really obsess and like you I think [TS]

01:37:11   I lie I want to be left alone but like [TS]

01:37:14   it's it's beneficial to be pushed into [TS]

01:37:18   situations with other people well that's [TS]

01:37:20   encouraging my daughter to get over her [TS]

01:37:22   shyness and order her own food or for me [TS]

01:37:24   to be saying okay I'm going to reach out [TS]

01:37:26   to this person try to do a podcast [TS]

01:37:27   episode with them I mean it's not my [TS]

01:37:29   natural impulse at all and given the [TS]

01:37:32   varying intelligences of other people I [TS]

01:37:35   look at somebody or you know you [TS]

01:37:36   suddenly need some [TS]

01:37:37   and you're like wow I can feel like I [TS]

01:37:40   can tell a little bit why you're so good [TS]

01:37:41   at your job like you really you really [TS]

01:37:43   get this in a way you get this on a [TS]

01:37:45   molecular level because you've done this [TS]

01:37:47   a lot and because you understand that [TS]

01:37:48   people are part of the process and I I [TS]

01:37:50   admire that and I'm stunned by that well [TS]

01:37:54   I've said it before and I'll say it [TS]

01:37:56   again I mean the fact that you reached [TS]

01:38:00   out to me however many years ago and [TS]

01:38:02   explained to me what the internet was [TS]

01:38:03   and then after explaining to me what the [TS]

01:38:06   internet was he explained that there [TS]

01:38:07   were other people on the other side of [TS]

01:38:09   the Internet and after I asked a few [TS]

01:38:12   questions about that that you patiently [TS]

01:38:13   answered then you said and I said why [TS]

01:38:18   would a band want to be on the Internet [TS]

01:38:19   and you were very patient with me and [TS]

01:38:21   explained some of the reasons why a band [TS]

01:38:23   might want to be on the Internet and [TS]

01:38:25   then you said I want to do a podcast and [TS]

01:38:28   then you patiently explained what that [TS]

01:38:31   was a lot of layers and and I was like [TS]

01:38:35   mm hmm hmm hmm and now we've been doing [TS]

01:38:39   this podcast for 40 years 40 years and [TS]

01:38:45   it really has there have been times when [TS]

01:38:50   this podcast was the thing that kept me [TS]

01:38:52   in the world mm-hmm it was the one thing [TS]

01:38:56   I was doing that that was collaborative [TS]

01:38:58   and interactive and and outside of [TS]

01:39:03   myself dependent dependent on someone [TS]

01:39:08   else not just doing work but on that [TS]

01:39:10   someone else being into it mm-hmm [TS]

01:39:14   right like bringing their own they're [TS]

01:39:20   not just their their participation but [TS]

01:39:23   they're there I mean like the love of [TS]

01:39:28   doing it enough to do it and I never [TS]

01:39:31   would have thought you know what I mean [TS]

01:39:33   I mean we knew a lot of people 10 years [TS]

01:39:35   ago that we still know but we don't know [TS]

01:39:37   very well anymore and we knew those [TS]

01:39:40   people as well as we knew each other [TS]

01:39:41   then but you and I know each other now [TS]

01:39:45   still because we do this [TS]

01:39:49   and I mean I wish it wasn't as [TS]

01:39:52   depressing to say this out loud as [TS]

01:39:54   depressing as it sounds and actually is [TS]

01:39:55   but like a lot of this is this is an [TS]

01:39:57   opportunity for me to have regular [TS]

01:40:00   meetings with friends of mine I mean [TS]

01:40:02   honestly this is this show in particular [TS]

01:40:03   that was kind of you know little talk [TS]

01:40:05   about the show on the show but it is [TS]

01:40:06   kind of legit about how it started was [TS]

01:40:07   that this you know what's on stove [TS]

01:40:09   whatever's in the show is in the show it [TS]

01:40:10   wasn't like we had to say well let's [TS]

01:40:12   come up with a topic list and hope we [TS]

01:40:13   can figure out something to say and yeah [TS]

01:40:17   I um you know I don't know I know I [TS]

01:40:20   don't do it enough and I don't do it [TS]

01:40:21   well but I admire the people who do I [TS]

01:40:24   love other people's intelligence maybe [TS]

01:40:27   we should maybe we should start a band [TS]

01:40:29   know my dad's got a barn my dad's got a [TS]

01:40:34   killer set of tools you gonna play the [TS]

01:40:37   chainsaw yeah when didn't know I'm gonna [TS]

01:40:42   set I'm gonna set off my job is going to [TS]

01:40:44   be the set up one stick of dynamite [TS]

01:40:45   every 14 days and skulk around the [TS]

01:40:49   corner see you bitches that's my role in [TS]

01:40:54   the band out of here oh we laughed [TS]