The Incomparable

155: The Cat Who Listened to Podcasts


00:00:01   the incomparable number 185 artists 2013 [TS]

00:00:12   welcome back to being comfortable i'm [TS]

00:00:14   your host Jason L we're here in this [TS]

00:00:17   installment to talk about neil gaiman [TS]

00:00:20   most specifically his latest novel the [TS]

00:00:23   ocean at the end of the lane we might [TS]

00:00:25   also talk a little bit about other neil [TS]

00:00:26   gaiman that we have read and thought of [TS]

00:00:28   but basically we're gonna focus on the [TS]

00:00:30   ocean at the end of the lane and joining [TS]

00:00:32   me in this edition of our book club to [TS]

00:00:34   talk about it i have two lovely guest [TS]

00:00:36   dan morgan is here as he always is and i [TS]

00:00:39   do think that i like is i do i know i'm [TS]

00:00:42   playing his part tonight [TS]

00:00:43   ok thank you think i will not speak much [TS]

00:00:46   you can tell me what to read later and [TS]

00:00:49   uh and also david lawrence here [TS]

00:00:51   hi again hi back I have have I been here [TS]

00:00:54   before I let me sit next to this pond [TS]

00:00:57   and think about them [TS]

00:00:59   Oh whoo that's a book reference that you [TS]

00:01:02   did there was I don't know I don't get [TS]

00:01:03   it [TS]

00:01:04   so the ocean at the end of the lane a [TS]

00:01:06   hundred ninety-two page [TS]

00:01:08   I don't know the backstory here I don't [TS]

00:01:09   know if who actually did read that he [TS]

00:01:12   intended this originally to be a short [TS]

00:01:13   story and then it kind of got out of [TS]

00:01:15   hand through each other going and [TS]

00:01:17   telling a little bit and if you're a [TS]

00:01:19   famous short the successful writer like [TS]

00:01:21   neil gaiman and you write something of [TS]

00:01:22   any length that you might consider a [TS]

00:01:24   novella from somewhere else your agent [TS]

00:01:27   and your publisher say we wait that the [TS]

00:01:30   novel but it's it's kinda short at it's [TS]

00:01:33   a novel will it sell it so it's it's um [TS]

00:01:36   it's 290 pages line along in my addition [TS]

00:01:39   I according to wikipedia 292 page don't [TS]

00:01:42   know you know what hardcover in my hand [TS]

00:01:44   in 278 even shorter wow look at that so [TS]

00:01:47   their wikipedia is overselling it [TS]

00:01:49   well are you suggesting wikipedia is [TS]

00:01:50   wrong about something my god we've [TS]

00:01:52   broken the well I don't know tonight up [TS]

00:01:56   the world is not as it appears dan oh [TS]

00:01:59   yeah all right there are oceans that are [TS]

00:02:02   pawns it's very strange [TS]

00:02:04   so um I actually kind of like before we [TS]

00:02:07   get into talking about it i really liked [TS]

00:02:10   reading something that was [TS]

00:02:12   self-contained and wasn't a [TS]

00:02:14   thousand-page book that's one in a [TS]

00:02:15   series it was really nice to read [TS]

00:02:17   something short and sweet and I liked it [TS]

00:02:20   a lot but also i like i like the words a [TS]

00:02:25   lot and i liked the name [TS]

00:02:26   for of words even more but there weren't [TS]

00:02:29   that many of them it was kinda nice [TS]

00:02:31   yeah it's a story that it's very [TS]

00:02:33   efficiently told some ways which is not [TS]

00:02:35   to suggest that it's not without its art [TS]

00:02:37   obviously but can be efficient i think i [TS]

00:02:40   mean i read this i read this on vacation [TS]

00:02:42   the week before we're recording this and [TS]

00:02:46   I read it in a day [TS]

00:02:47   I mean like I finished a book the [TS]

00:02:49   previous book I was reading and I was [TS]

00:02:50   like all right I'm certain your game [TS]

00:02:51   because I brought it specifically [TS]

00:02:52   because i want to read on vacation and [TS]

00:02:55   ended up you know i read in a couple [TS]

00:02:56   like you know a couple settings settings [TS]

00:02:59   like when i finished it before bed and [TS]

00:03:02   yeah i mean that is that's where it's [TS]

00:03:04   been a long time since i read a book in [TS]

00:03:05   the day rather than couple settings [TS]

00:03:07   rather than a tree that you like a [TS]

00:03:09   forever by a lake [TS]

00:03:11   I read by the lake i read it on a chick [TS]

00:03:13   in a chair all right I like a comfy [TS]

00:03:15   chair and a porch in a bed two sittings [TS]

00:03:18   and two settings in a box with a fox fox [TS]

00:03:21   yeah with my studies in my socks and [TS]

00:03:24   planning I did not read it in the rain I [TS]

00:03:27   would not could not read it in the rain [TS]

00:03:28   it's true anyways yeah I wouldn't it was [TS]

00:03:30   funny because I just talked to sit down [TS]

00:03:32   have a vacation with my family and my [TS]

00:03:35   cousin is a couple years older than me [TS]

00:03:36   is also a bit of you know fantasy [TS]

00:03:38   science fiction fan and so he's like if [TS]

00:03:40   you read over the ocean at the [TS]

00:03:41   underlying yet i was like no no I have [TS]

00:03:42   it on this trip I'm gonna read it and [TS]

00:03:44   he's he you know tried very hard not to [TS]

00:03:45   spoil i actually knew very little about [TS]

00:03:47   this book going in despite the fact that [TS]

00:03:49   i follow him on twitter and read his [TS]

00:03:50   blog like I I sort of got bits and [TS]

00:03:52   pieces but not I did not read the book [TS]

00:03:54   jacket or anything like that I kind of [TS]

00:03:56   went in unprepared and I think you know [TS]

00:03:59   what i think i like that you know i [TS]

00:04:00   think that's something I don't do very [TS]

00:04:01   often and it's refreshing it's like [TS]

00:04:03   going to a movie that you don't know [TS]

00:04:04   anything about right and then you're [TS]

00:04:06   surprised and delighted by it like oh [TS]

00:04:08   wow this is pretty cool i dont even into [TS]

00:04:10   a trailer or commercial for anything and [TS]

00:04:11   they're required backstory don't want to [TS]

00:04:14   know what universe it's set in or what [TS]

00:04:16   series it's a part of or anything like [TS]

00:04:18   that it's just [TS]

00:04:19   hey Neil Gaiman road new book i'm going [TS]

00:04:21   to read it anyway yeah and i have a [TS]

00:04:22   further point about that but I wait wait [TS]

00:04:23   until we get to the book discussion so [TS]

00:04:25   noted yet I mean I i read it in two [TS]

00:04:27   sittings to just over two nights but any [TS]

00:04:30   settings only only one only one to enter [TS]

00:04:34   next Settings icon [TS]

00:04:35   yeah yeah next time I'll build a set [TS]

00:04:38   there you go there you do that [TS]

00:04:39   and yeah i mean i originally I got it [TS]

00:04:42   just because my older son is in to neil [TS]

00:04:46   gaiman thanks to Coraline and the [TS]

00:04:48   graveyard book and without alright you [TS]

00:04:52   know we'll get this and yeah if if i get [TS]

00:04:55   around to reading it [TS]

00:04:56   so when you through this and there's no [TS]

00:04:58   yeah alright i can do that and you [TS]

00:05:01   mentioned it to an actor friend of mine [TS]

00:05:03   and he said oh my god you're going to [TS]

00:05:06   love it said okay you know whatever [TS]

00:05:09   any-any didn't spoil and he wanted to [TS]

00:05:10   you know it was the same kind of thing [TS]

00:05:11   and so last night after i finished it i [TS]

00:05:15   sent him a message [TS]

00:05:16   I said oh my god and he said yep there [TS]

00:05:20   you go and i'll tell you what else he [TS]

00:05:21   said later but that's part of the book [TS]

00:05:24   discussion one of the things I really [TS]

00:05:25   liked about this book is ok first off [TS]

00:05:29   Neil Gaiman is a really good writer [TS]

00:05:31   let's just say yeah well he's either [TS]

00:05:32   that's a given let's just put that you [TS]

00:05:34   enter that into evidence [TS]

00:05:36   well there are a lot of successful [TS]

00:05:38   people were big fan followings I'm not [TS]

00:05:40   naming names who are even even something [TS]

00:05:44   like george RR martin who has got a lot [TS]

00:05:45   of things going for people whose books I [TS]

00:05:48   like we don't need to talk about like [TS]

00:05:49   feed and things like that people whose [TS]

00:05:51   books i like but I read them i think [TS]

00:05:53   well I like the idea is more than I like [TS]

00:05:55   the actual writing right real game is a [TS]

00:05:58   good writer yeah and sometimes the words [TS]

00:06:00   are to the you know to the service of [TS]

00:06:02   the book we you don't stop and reread [TS]

00:06:04   that particular turn of phrase for [TS]

00:06:06   example and there's nothing wrong with [TS]

00:06:08   that either plenty of books i read where [TS]

00:06:09   it's like I've died like the story like [TS]

00:06:12   the characters not really paying a lot [TS]

00:06:13   of attention the writing but like that [TS]

00:06:14   that that is sort of that's like gravy [TS]

00:06:17   for me like if you know and sometimes it [TS]

00:06:19   gets in the way like there are there [TS]

00:06:20   definitely writers who try too hard to [TS]

00:06:23   be like good like lyrical writers and [TS]

00:06:26   they that it just gets obfuscating in [TS]

00:06:29   terms of like the story but but his [TS]

00:06:31   stuff is subtle and not something you I [TS]

00:06:35   you know occasionally find myself [TS]

00:06:36   re-reading sentences and I'm realizing [TS]

00:06:38   that sir it's really really well-crafted [TS]

00:06:39   sentence did not show we necessarily no [TS]

00:06:43   no they're not just weren't but they're [TS]

00:06:45   there to the point and yet I think about [TS]

00:06:48   your laurita sensitive man if I wrote [TS]

00:06:49   that sounds that sounds would be like [TS]

00:06:51   super way boring way more boring [TS]

00:06:53   yeah if you wrote that particular [TS]

00:06:56   sentence you like punch the air and get [TS]

00:06:57   up and go with you I'll be like oh my [TS]

00:06:59   god i'm neil gaiman that's amazing but [TS]

00:07:01   yeah yeah he's a good writer and um and [TS]

00:07:06   then I like the tone of this book and [TS]

00:07:07   and I've seen their similar tones and [TS]

00:07:10   some of the other books that he's [TS]

00:07:11   written a lot of his books have this [TS]

00:07:13   kind of tone but I like that it's you [TS]

00:07:15   know it starts off as a memoir it turns [TS]

00:07:18   into sort of a fairy tale it never it [TS]

00:07:23   never seems even when it's sort of at [TS]

00:07:26   its most scary or at least has the most [TS]

00:07:29   plot complication by the antagonist of [TS]

00:07:32   the story [TS]

00:07:33   it never I don't know it always seems [TS]

00:07:36   kind of gentle I'll take issue with that [TS]

00:07:39   one particular scene but overall I think [TS]

00:07:41   I fair enough i think i'll see where I [TS]

00:07:43   see where you're going a reminder there [TS]

00:07:44   is [TS]

00:07:45   yes that's right the core there's a some [TS]

00:07:47   ugliness but around especially the first [TS]

00:07:48   part of it i mean yeah you really [TS]

00:07:50   essentially are reading his memoir and [TS]

00:07:52   until suddenly it becomes something [TS]

00:07:54   that's different but it's just it's i [TS]

00:07:57   don't know it was very pleasant to read [TS]

00:07:59   the whole experience was pleasant in in [TS]

00:08:01   all the settings and settings that it [TS]

00:08:03   took three did make me think that like [TS]

00:08:05   other you mention the memoir part like I [TS]

00:08:06   and knowing as much about neil gaiman as [TS]

00:08:08   i did because i have followed him for [TS]

00:08:11   many years and like personally like a [TS]

00:08:13   foam around now I because I because I've [TS]

00:08:15   read a lot of this stuff because i read [TS]

00:08:16   his blog i know a little bit about you [TS]

00:08:17   know his life whatever shares in the [TS]

00:08:19   internet and so knowing that stuff it [TS]

00:08:21   was very interesting to read and try to [TS]

00:08:23   figure out how much of this is [TS]

00:08:24   influenced by you know his own life [TS]

00:08:26   because it's not hard to read into that [TS]

00:08:30   at least in the beginning you know that [TS]

00:08:31   there's they're certainly elements of [TS]

00:08:33   sure but yeah I thought that was I [TS]

00:08:35   thought that was interesting one and the [TS]

00:08:37   gentleness is what makes those horrific [TS]

00:08:41   moments stand out and makes them that [TS]

00:08:44   much more effective to because it's [TS]

00:08:48   almost like he's load you into this [TS]

00:08:50   just beautiful storytelling in this [TS]

00:08:53   beautiful setting and even when I mean [TS]

00:08:57   the characters are doing that too right [TS]

00:08:59   yeah the the family whose name now the [TS]

00:09:04   hem stocks right they [TS]

00:09:06   great they keep reassuring him to in his [TS]

00:09:09   flashbacks that it's gonna be okay just [TS]

00:09:13   hold my hand everything's going to be [TS]

00:09:14   fine and so not only is the writer and [TS]

00:09:17   the tone of the book reassuring you the [TS]

00:09:19   characters are reassuring the the [TS]

00:09:21   protagonist it's gonna be okay don't [TS]

00:09:24   worry about it just hold on it's gonna [TS]

00:09:25   be fine [TS]

00:09:26   well I'm not that worried it's not gonna [TS]

00:09:28   be a problem [TS]

00:09:29   it's fine and then enforce it it's not [TS]

00:09:31   entirely five break when it's a way of [TS]

00:09:34   getting him through it and even at the [TS]

00:09:36   end when he gets through in a different [TS]

00:09:40   way [TS]

00:09:40   trying not to spoil anything but again [TS]

00:09:44   it comes back to the reassurance and the [TS]

00:09:46   yes of course that's exactly how it went [TS]

00:09:49   yes it's okay the the writer reminded me [TS]

00:09:53   the most of the book that reminded me [TS]

00:09:55   the most up was actually ray bradbury [TS]

00:09:57   something wicked this way cause like [TS]

00:10:00   yeah there's a very similar tone to that [TS]

00:10:03   book which is also sort of about dealing [TS]

00:10:05   with that childhood not quite the cusp [TS]

00:10:10   of childhood but like there's an element [TS]

00:10:11   of being a kid and being exposed to [TS]

00:10:13   these fantastical elements and you know [TS]

00:10:17   I think we all it's always interesting [TS]

00:10:19   to read a book from the perspective of a [TS]

00:10:21   child especially like fancy books like [TS]

00:10:23   this because i don't know about you guys [TS]

00:10:26   but I kind of really putting myself back [TS]

00:10:27   in the you know in the mindset of [TS]

00:10:29   feeling like a kid again and thinking [TS]

00:10:31   about how when you're a kid how real all [TS]

00:10:33   those things are to you and so there's a [TS]

00:10:35   lot of the book which for me at least [TS]

00:10:38   the first half or so I reading through [TS]

00:10:39   like well there's a lot in here that you [TS]

00:10:41   can kind of you could almost rationalize [TS]

00:10:45   in a very logical like real world kind [TS]

00:10:47   of way like there are real-world events [TS]

00:10:49   that might cause a child to you know [TS]

00:10:53   imagine these types of things compounded [TS]

00:10:56   with you know something bad happening [TS]

00:10:58   right like their traumatic events for [TS]

00:11:01   example that could happen and how that [TS]

00:11:03   might turn into a different sort of [TS]

00:11:05   story in your head as a child thinking [TS]

00:11:07   about it that are very different from [TS]

00:11:09   the perspective of being an adult which [TS]

00:11:11   is why you know when we sort of lead [TS]

00:11:12   into the book it starts with the adult [TS]

00:11:14   and then regreses back to the kid for it [TS]

00:11:17   so I I thought that was very interesting [TS]

00:11:19   very [TS]

00:11:19   all done because it when you are kid all [TS]

00:11:22   that stuff is so real to you like I mean [TS]

00:11:25   being a kid you know if the idea of like [TS]

00:11:27   a monster under your bed or something [TS]

00:11:28   like that right like that is that is [TS]

00:11:29   real tangible thing to you as a child in [TS]

00:11:32   a way that doesn't really make sense [TS]

00:11:33   into even looking back from an adult [TS]

00:11:35   like oh how could I have even believe [TS]

00:11:37   that but at the time it doesn't matter [TS]

00:11:38   right like it's true as far as you're [TS]

00:11:39   concerned because it has an effect on [TS]

00:11:41   you so I think he's great at capturing [TS]

00:11:43   that element of you know how real and [TS]

00:11:47   visceral these things feel as a child [TS]

00:11:49   and just the idea of the unexplained [TS]

00:11:51   should we fire off the spoiler horn and [TS]

00:11:54   talk about this a little more detail [TS]

00:11:55   go for it [TS]

00:12:00   right now I had so let me let me visit I [TS]

00:12:03   was just saying it but in like concrete [TS]

00:12:05   terms okay yeah i'm laying on me so you [TS]

00:12:07   know we have to deal with the the fact [TS]

00:12:09   that this this this kid basically she's [TS]

00:12:11   like a dead body right like that's the [TS]

00:12:12   first sort of major thing that happens [TS]

00:12:14   in the book I feel like I mean and else [TS]

00:12:17   is a really horrific i mean like the [TS]

00:12:18   thing before before there's before [TS]

00:12:21   there's real magic right there is he [TS]

00:12:24   sees the well [TS]

00:12:26   oh yeah you're right though damn i mean [TS]

00:12:27   first off they may kill his kitten [TS]

00:12:29   yeah that God man attacks the cab driver [TS]

00:12:32   comes up and kills his kitten the new [TS]

00:12:34   larger it's like what got you a new cat [TS]

00:12:37   had like a million evil cat right now [TS]

00:12:39   cat and his little black kitten honest [TS]

00:12:41   with you mind that that's so sad because [TS]

00:12:43   as I grew I grew up with cats and we [TS]

00:12:46   were right on the highway and the cats [TS]

00:12:48   didn't last very long i have I I cannot [TS]

00:12:50   tell you how many kind of forward of [TS]

00:12:52   things in my childhood I can mark by the [TS]

00:12:54   death of an animal like that that might [TS]

00:12:57   you know my cats that when they were hit [TS]

00:12:59   by a car on the highway just awful and [TS]

00:13:03   so that really hit home and that's [TS]

00:13:05   before even the larger and kills himself [TS]

00:13:07   out by the end of the lane right well [TS]

00:13:10   and that to me that element i mean i [TS]

00:13:11   didn't i did not have pets going up and [TS]

00:13:13   the closest I got was like a friend of [TS]

00:13:15   mine got a cat like a kitten and his mom [TS]

00:13:18   was like oh well you know like you don't [TS]

00:13:19   get to have a cat like a parent watching [TS]

00:13:21   very carefully you can like have like [TS]

00:13:22   part-owner so you can like come over and [TS]

00:13:24   visit the cat and like and then they had [TS]

00:13:26   to put the cat to sleep like two weeks [TS]

00:13:27   later because I always and I was like [TS]

00:13:29   three probably a really good thing that [TS]

00:13:31   I didn't have a cat because that would [TS]

00:13:33   just like broken me as a child but like [TS]

00:13:35   but your he writes about it so so [TS]

00:13:39   pointedly that you can't help that [TS]

00:13:40   something was like I couldn't help but [TS]

00:13:42   feel like this happened like it out real [TS]

00:13:44   but it's almost rolled dollars yeah wait [TS]

00:13:47   for me to where it's like you start the [TS]

00:13:48   story and it's like here's a boy and he [TS]

00:13:51   had a perfectly ordinary childhood and [TS]

00:13:53   he had a cat and the cat was crushed by [TS]

00:13:55   a cab driver because their parents had [TS]

00:13:57   to rent out rooms because they're you [TS]

00:13:59   know they they didn't have the money [TS]

00:14:00   like wow whoa nobody came to his [TS]

00:14:04   birthday party and nobody comes to a [TS]

00:14:05   birthday party just him [TS]

00:14:07   yeah very rolled all right i mean i [TS]

00:14:10   always go back to change the gigantic [TS]

00:14:11   that's it that's it that's it [TS]

00:14:12   informative book for me [TS]

00:14:14   and.and I read some of these books and [TS]

00:14:16   every time i get there i get a little [TS]

00:14:17   sensitive and sponge and spiker and I [TS]

00:14:20   gah it's doing that and then their [TS]

00:14:22   parents were eating at the zoo and admit [TS]

00:14:24   I got some of that from the ocean at the [TS]

00:14:26   end of the line and you know he has to [TS]

00:14:28   give up his bedroom [TS]

00:14:29   it's not just oh yeah he has to give up [TS]

00:14:31   the bedroom that was especially you know [TS]

00:14:33   to get the washbasin just his job for [TS]

00:14:35   him sleep and sleep in his sister's room [TS]

00:14:38   blue we see what I'm saying like in [TS]

00:14:40   terms of like the effects of something [TS]

00:14:42   that's real like so you know you feel [TS]

00:14:43   like with the dead body and then later [TS]

00:14:45   on there's in the other and i know this [TS]

00:14:47   is skipping around a little bit like the [TS]

00:14:49   the antagonist of the book Ursula [TS]

00:14:53   Monkton moncton like you know so she [TS]

00:14:57   basically like his father basically has [TS]

00:15:00   an affair with her right like you can [TS]

00:15:02   almost see that as like in a real world [TS]

00:15:05   event that was viewed through the life [TS]

00:15:07   of a child she must be a monster because [TS]

00:15:08   she came in and broke up my family right [TS]

00:15:10   like and and that's the the line that it [TS]

00:15:13   walks that makes this so powerful for me [TS]

00:15:15   is like you know obviously not [TS]

00:15:18   everything is something that can be [TS]

00:15:19   explained rationally in this in this [TS]

00:15:21   story but there are like little touch [TS]

00:15:22   points of that where that line is very [TS]

00:15:25   permeable for children right the line [TS]

00:15:27   between reality and fantasy and [TS]

00:15:29   imagination and and I think that's he [TS]

00:15:32   does such a great job of capturing what [TS]

00:15:35   it's like to be a small child who has [TS]

00:15:37   that imagination especially because I [TS]

00:15:38   don't you guys but like identified with [TS]

00:15:40   him in terms of like you talk about him [TS]

00:15:42   read books all the time write like that [TS]

00:15:44   was me like growing up like I read books [TS]

00:15:45   like all the time I had my nose in a [TS]

00:15:48   book all the time and that's and that's [TS]

00:15:49   definitely how I felt at that point [TS]

00:15:50   about like the imagining all these [TS]

00:15:52   adventures and stories and great things [TS]

00:15:53   that I could go off and be doing and and [TS]

00:15:56   that is why it's such a such a great [TS]

00:15:59   piece of work in in terms of bringing [TS]

00:16:01   this character to life and that was to [TS]

00:16:04   call back to an earlier point that I [TS]

00:16:05   said about my cousin mention this book [TS]

00:16:07   to me he said he he explained he was [TS]

00:16:09   telling a friend about the book is like [TS]

00:16:10   I really love this book about this boy [TS]

00:16:12   you know and he has this interesting [TS]

00:16:13   experience as a kid and he goes through [TS]

00:16:15   some of it and his friend estimate its [TS]

00:16:18   voice name and he suddenly stopped and [TS]

00:16:20   realizes right action [TS]

00:16:23   wait hold on you never told us they like [TS]

00:16:25   and that's like but I didn't realize it [TS]

00:16:27   until I was [TS]

00:16:27   really acts asked about it like it [TS]

00:16:30   didn't register in my in my mind that [TS]

00:16:32   were never told what his name is right I [TS]

00:16:35   that's amazing [TS]

00:16:36   the framing sequence of this book to is [TS]

00:16:38   that he's in town for a funeral [TS]

00:16:41   I kind of assumed it's a funeral of one [TS]

00:16:43   of his parents as well now although it's [TS]

00:16:45   never made clear who [TS]

00:16:47   yeah uh which i think i kinda like and [TS]

00:16:51   given what we see about his parents and [TS]

00:16:53   and how Ursula Monkton and you know [TS]

00:16:55   basically inserts herself in this family [TS]

00:16:57   and you know have sex with the father [TS]

00:17:00   and and the and the narrator sees that [TS]

00:17:04   there's something going on there and you [TS]

00:17:06   could on one level blade say well it was [TS]

00:17:08   magic it's not his fault but what is [TS]

00:17:10   Ursula Monkton story she she wants [TS]

00:17:13   everybody to be happy [TS]

00:17:15   these horrible things that she does are [TS]

00:17:16   all actually trying to give people kind [TS]

00:17:19   of what they want which is even more [TS]

00:17:21   horrible but then so this family that's [TS]

00:17:24   had all this stuff i mean when we see [TS]

00:17:26   the framing sequence we're seeing that [TS]

00:17:28   he's an adult now and so presumably one [TS]

00:17:32   of his parents has died and he's [TS]

00:17:34   avoiding going to the reception have to [TS]

00:17:37   the after the bear held by instead going [TS]

00:17:39   to this this house at the end of the [TS]

00:17:40   lane then and then we find out that he's [TS]

00:17:43   gone there will be several times really [TS]

00:17:46   his life but never remembers which is I [TS]

00:17:49   mean I literally I this never used to [TS]

00:17:54   happen to me I used to be you know stoic [TS]

00:17:57   right [TS]

00:17:58   all my life I mean I credits me come [TS]

00:18:00   home when I was seven I cried at the end [TS]

00:18:03   of Wrath of Khan and we're not even when [TS]

00:18:05   Spock dies it's when Kirk's voice goes [TS]

00:18:08   his was the most here right yeah it's [TS]

00:18:12   just okay i'm done right [TS]

00:18:14   yeah and and I cried when they did the [TS]

00:18:16   memorial special after Jim Henson passed [TS]

00:18:19   away and that you know they do the big [TS]

00:18:21   song at the end of just one person [TS]

00:18:23   believes in you long enough and strong [TS]

00:18:25   enough to call God you know you know but [TS]

00:18:28   aside from that nothing nothing got me [TS]

00:18:31   Bambi nothing Old Yeller dog bad i just [TS]

00:18:35   i right [TS]

00:18:37   but just I'm sorry thanks them any sense [TS]

00:18:39   more editing work for me them also use [TS]

00:18:42   it wasn't me [TS]

00:18:43   usually I'm worried about that but yeah [TS]

00:18:47   after I had children I think was we had [TS]

00:18:52   the first one for a couple months and I [TS]

00:18:54   just needed something to read because [TS]

00:18:57   you know I hadn't read books in awhile [TS]

00:18:59   this year it's just baby baby baby oh [TS]

00:19:02   baby and i read this Batman no man's [TS]

00:19:05   land by gra├ža that's great I loved [TS]

00:19:07   acting [TS]

00:19:09   oh yeah and there's the adaptation of [TS]

00:19:11   that arc in the graphic novels and it [TS]

00:19:16   gets to the subplot where the Joker's [TS]

00:19:18   kidnapped all the newborn baby boys in [TS]

00:19:20   Gotham and is going to kill them one by [TS]

00:19:22   one and I'm sitting there just tears [TS]

00:19:24   pouring down my face and going this is a [TS]

00:19:27   bad man novel what is wrong with me [TS]

00:19:29   right [TS]

00:19:30   and ever since then I much more [TS]

00:19:33   sensitive to things like that and the [TS]

00:19:36   end of this book i read the last two [TS]

00:19:38   chapters with tears just pouring down my [TS]

00:19:40   face not you know I'm not having [TS]

00:19:42   hysterics may be quiet but just I [TS]

00:19:45   couldn't stop and you know then it was [TS]

00:19:48   just sort of like I described last night [TS]

00:19:50   as the this sort of full chest feeling [TS]

00:19:54   of sorrow and joy and redemption and [TS]

00:19:59   sadness and you know just all-in-one and [TS]

00:20:02   you know the thought that you know it's [TS]

00:20:07   almost it's almost going back to wrinkle [TS]

00:20:10   in time it's as if Charles Wallace [TS]

00:20:13   didn't come back and saved the rest of [TS]

00:20:17   them if that makes sense [TS]

00:20:19   Yeah right right yes yeah it you're [TS]

00:20:22   right because it's that sacrifice of the [TS]

00:20:25   one who spoons special and has the most [TS]

00:20:28   special talent to save everybody else in [TS]

00:20:31   this case to save the unnamed narrator [TS]

00:20:33   and you know so so having that echoing [TS]

00:20:38   for me was kinda weird to like oh my god [TS]

00:20:41   i was thinking of Florida rings during [TS]

00:20:43   when when they explain what's happening [TS]

00:20:46   with letty at the end of this book where [TS]

00:20:48   she's been attacked and [TS]

00:20:50   is dying and I I think it's the you know [TS]

00:20:52   it's so see metaphors there in the ocean [TS]

00:20:54   they're going off and the seabed might [TS]

00:20:57   be back but the the ocean is the [TS]

00:20:59   universe right it looks like you you [TS]

00:21:02   don't recognize her when she comes back [TS]

00:21:04   if she comes back i just love the the [TS]

00:21:05   one line that i felt like i should have [TS]

00:21:08   important i was reading this in [TS]

00:21:09   hardcover so it's harder to highlight [TS]

00:21:11   things but the one that I remembered was [TS]

00:21:13   that the the narrator asks her at one [TS]

00:21:16   point he says but how old are you [TS]

00:21:18   she says 11 he says how long have you [TS]

00:21:21   been 11 [TS]

00:21:22   yeah what a great line the light falls [TS]

00:21:24   on [TS]

00:21:25   yes that that's a sense for a long time [TS]

00:21:28   yeah so i mean her little brother is [TS]

00:21:29   jeff t yeah well see that's I I felt [TS]

00:21:35   like Ray Bradbury but i also got a lot [TS]

00:21:36   of Harlan Ellison in this well Neil [TS]

00:21:39   Gaiman I mean this is his yeah right i [TS]

00:21:41   mean it's that it's that it's magical [TS]

00:21:44   but it's it's it's not grounded [TS]

00:21:47   yeah exactly right it's grounded yeah in [TS]

00:21:49   a way that a lot of the the Harlan [TS]

00:21:50   Ellison stuff is and I mean that's why [TS]

00:21:52   Neil Gaiman Harlan also know i mean i [TS]

00:21:54   think you know know each other pretty [TS]

00:21:56   well and I mean but here they are very [TS]

00:21:58   similar in in some ways and very [TS]

00:22:00   different mothers [TS]

00:22:01   even Neil Gaiman seems very gentle and [TS]

00:22:04   not but up although i will take as i [TS]

00:22:08   mentioned that one seal i was reading [TS]

00:22:10   this out on the docket our lake and uh I [TS]

00:22:13   got to the bathtub scene and so the [TS]

00:22:17   scene in which his father basically [TS]

00:22:18   tries to drown trying to drown him yeah [TS]

00:22:19   and I finished reading that and I close [TS]

00:22:23   the book and just sort of give a visit [TS]

00:22:25   like a audible like you know I had to [TS]

00:22:29   stop at that was like the end of my [TS]

00:22:31   first sort of you know sitting reading [TS]

00:22:33   it because it's just I could I needed to [TS]

00:22:35   breathe after that right like it was so [TS]

00:22:37   well done and so affecting of you know [TS]

00:22:41   why I can imagine it right but like you [TS]

00:22:45   know the idea of your father trying to [TS]

00:22:46   drown you like it is terrifying and but [TS]

00:22:51   you know that that element of being a [TS]

00:22:53   kid and being not having control right [TS]

00:22:56   and not having and something has entered [TS]

00:22:58   your world and it's change your world [TS]

00:23:00   and you don't like what's happened right [TS]

00:23:02   fundamentally that's what Ursula Monkton [TS]

00:23:04   is that she's invested their house but [TS]

00:23:05   she's she's causing change and it's [TS]

00:23:08   changed that the about this boy you know [TS]

00:23:10   for lots of good reasons doesn't like [TS]

00:23:12   but you can see the the metaphor there [TS]

00:23:15   yeah absolutely i just did but it's just [TS]

00:23:18   it was so affecting i had to put it on [TS]

00:23:19   ya and that almost never happens to me I [TS]

00:23:22   almost always you know so like yeah I've [TS]

00:23:24   more stoic probably the day it's park [TS]

00:23:26   yeah but like that but no idea that was [TS]

00:23:28   it was a visceral like I need to set [TS]

00:23:30   this aside for you know what our two [TS]

00:23:32   before I can go back to reading it [TS]

00:23:33   because that just that was that was [TS]

00:23:35   pretty brutal [TS]

00:23:36   so can I talk about cats [TS]

00:23:39   we'll just we'll just turn around and [TS]

00:23:41   you guys I'm not even about this book [TS]

00:23:43   looks just like cats you know if they're [TS]

00:23:45   so soft and no in there are some their [TS]

00:23:48   cats in this book and it and it's not [TS]

00:23:50   just the poor kitten and the mean cat [TS]

00:23:52   that's the replacement for his poor kid [TS]

00:23:54   2010 Fresh perplex the field but they've [TS]

00:23:56   got the they've got the the this kitten [TS]

00:23:59   that they find in the other you know [TS]

00:24:02   fairy world basically where they go and [TS]

00:24:06   it comes back with them and it's just [TS]

00:24:09   kind of flips around in between and in [TS]

00:24:11   and it looks a lot like this kid many [TS]

00:24:14   have the died it's another black kitten [TS]

00:24:16   and it appears at various points and out [TS]

00:24:20   at one point at the end I think there's [TS]

00:24:22   a statement about him [TS]

00:24:23   him bringing back a kitten at some point [TS]

00:24:26   is gonna get his childhood and I just I [TS]

00:24:28   I don't have a whole like deep meaning [TS]

00:24:31   of what the kitten is other than then I [TS]

00:24:33   really liked that there's this idea [TS]

00:24:35   first off that there was this cat that [TS]

00:24:36   was special to him and then the [TS]

00:24:37   replacement was not acceptable and then [TS]

00:24:39   also that cats are are these kind of [TS]

00:24:41   mysterious and semi magical creatures [TS]

00:24:44   and they there they don't even come from [TS]

00:24:46   where you think they come from they come [TS]

00:24:48   from this other land where they just [TS]

00:24:50   kind of appear and and i I just I [TS]

00:24:53   enjoyed that because it was just this [TS]

00:24:54   element that is that recurs that was fun [TS]

00:24:56   and and I as a as a boy you know when I [TS]

00:25:01   was a boy I really liked cats and we had [TS]

00:25:03   we had cats out you know because I grew [TS]

00:25:05   up in the country and we have less [TS]

00:25:06   outside cats and so that so that really [TS]

00:25:09   resonated with me that this is a boy [TS]

00:25:11   who's growing up and he has this cat and [TS]

00:25:13   then and then the cats kind of recur [TS]

00:25:15   which is just [TS]

00:25:16   it's such a funny little thing we didn't [TS]

00:25:18   have spawned the way accounts we had an [TS]

00:25:21   ocean ocean we had three cats at any [TS]

00:25:25   given time all through my childhood and [TS]

00:25:28   and we and we were kinda out in the [TS]

00:25:30   country in Florida but after after i [TS]

00:25:34   left Florida didn't have cats until I [TS]

00:25:37   got married and moved out here because [TS]

00:25:40   my wife was are always a dog person and [TS]

00:25:43   then we accidentally became cat owners [TS]

00:25:45   and she just fell lock stock and barrel [TS]

00:25:47   for cats and now we have three cats go [TS]

00:25:49   figure [TS]

00:25:50   so it's sort of like it was the same [TS]

00:25:52   kind of thing for me was like they're [TS]

00:25:53   very comforting essence and I like me [TS]

00:25:56   back my childhood and I like the idea to [TS]

00:25:58   the cats are they are you know these [TS]

00:26:00   particular Creek particularly or unworld [TS]

00:26:02   otherworldly let's say creatures that's [TS]

00:26:06   that works in fact that we have some [TS]

00:26:08   magical kind of strange they come and go [TS]

00:26:10   where do they go we don't know [TS]

00:26:12   yeah you suddenly just reminded me in i [TS]

00:26:15   believe in terry pratchett swirled cats [TS]

00:26:18   can see the colour of magic like [TS]

00:26:21   naturally with humans can see which is [TS]

00:26:23   interesting interesting to me because of [TS]

00:26:25   course Terry Pratchett neil gaiman also [TS]

00:26:26   friends and collaborators [TS]

00:26:27   yeah but there is there is definitely [TS]

00:26:29   that you're totally right about that [TS]

00:26:30   there is something about the cats that [TS]

00:26:32   like like children is that that wine is [TS]

00:26:35   permeable for them what it's amazing to [TS]

00:26:37   watch them in and if you want the long [TS]

00:26:41   enough to see them looking at things and [TS]

00:26:43   you can't you have no idea what they're [TS]

00:26:45   looking at you are they looking at dust [TS]

00:26:47   motes floating in sunlight [TS]

00:26:49   I don't know but there's nothing there [TS]

00:26:52   there's nothing on the wall [TS]

00:26:53   what are you doing there reading your [TS]

00:26:54   soul there can't reaches up and slaps [TS]

00:26:57   the wall and you go okay magic if you're [TS]

00:27:00   just tuning in this is the cat fanciers [TS]

00:27:02   episode of and council podcast it's the [TS]

00:27:05   cast now it's a podcast about it's a pod [TS]

00:27:08   cat my cat cats for cats there cats [TS]

00:27:12   funny cats listen to podcasts [TS]

00:27:16   you'd be surprised and probably will [TS]

00:27:18   need to press well most cats don't but [TS]

00:27:21   those who have jobs and have to drive a [TS]

00:27:23   car to ease you into my award-winning [TS]

00:27:25   short story the cat who listen to [TS]

00:27:27   podcasts [TS]

00:27:28   no what award did that win that one cat [TS]

00:27:31   fancy podcast of the year award that [TS]

00:27:34   related word I knew it I knew it has [TS]

00:27:37   asked cats a script by name [TS]

00:27:40   alright it's time for this week's [TS]

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00:29:03   there many Dan's I'm not still I want [TS]

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00:29:15   just thirty percent off of a little bit [TS]

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00:29:20   and use the coupon code [TS]

00:29:23   dan sent me so check it out [TS]

00:29:25   hostgator.com and thank you very much to [TS]

00:29:27   Hostgator for sponsoring the [TS]

00:29:28   incomparable so one of the other things [TS]

00:29:30   I mean there's the there's there's a lot [TS]

00:29:33   in this you know less than 200 pages i [TS]

00:29:36   like the scene where they wear Letty [TS]

00:29:41   forms [TS]

00:29:42   the circle draws the circle which is a [TS]

00:29:44   no-good magic kind of thing to do and [TS]

00:29:46   tells the boy stay in here and you know [TS]

00:29:49   he learned his lesson right that when [TS]

00:29:51   she said always hold my hand and he lets [TS]

00:29:53   go for a minute and you know which worm [TS]

00:29:55   thing goes into his foot [TS]

00:29:57   i wiii i did you know that was great [TS]

00:29:59   about because i was reading through that [TS]

00:30:00   and I was thinking that that seems that [TS]

00:30:02   same scene i was thinking there's going [TS]

00:30:03   to be the point where the monsters show [TS]

00:30:06   up as Letty and try to convince him to [TS]

00:30:08   go out of the circle [TS]

00:30:09   I want him to be smart enough not to [TS]

00:30:11   fall for that and he doesn't and i was [TS]

00:30:13   so happy about that because I'm like if [TS]

00:30:15   i can think of it this boy can think of [TS]

00:30:17   it right like he's a smart kid we've [TS]

00:30:18   learned that like he's made mistakes but [TS]

00:30:20   like he's in you know he sort of has [TS]

00:30:22   bought into the world and understands [TS]

00:30:24   kind of how things are working now and [TS]

00:30:26   so I liked that he he didn't leave the [TS]

00:30:28   circle because that is like a lot of [TS]

00:30:30   books that would have been like all [TS]

00:30:32   right now we're off on another set of [TS]

00:30:33   adventures but in this one like he [TS]

00:30:35   learned his lesson [TS]

00:30:35   another good lesson you learned his [TS]

00:30:37   lesson i just read i was just reading [TS]

00:30:39   them send Sandman preludes nocturnes and [TS]

00:30:42   apparently key scene there were a circle [TS]

00:30:44   is accidentally don't break those [TS]

00:30:45   circles broken open and that it's bad [TS]

00:30:48   things for the people who broke breaker [TS]

00:30:49   the circle circle stream is on the [TS]

00:30:51   inside now we can get out but here this [TS]

00:30:54   is this is his he learned he he made the [TS]

00:30:57   mistake of letting go of her hand at the [TS]

00:30:59   beginning and here he knows that he [TS]

00:31:01   needs to sit there but what's tough [TS]

00:31:02   about that situation what's so [TS]

00:31:04   interesting about in the dark outside [TS]

00:31:06   the house is that he has to be alone and [TS]

00:31:09   he can't make them go away all he can do [TS]

00:31:12   is sit there and take it and so he's [TS]

00:31:15   visited and he has to sit there and take [TS]

00:31:17   it and he has to sit and take his [TS]

00:31:19   temptations and abuse and he end and the [TS]

00:31:23   sort of dashing of his hopes and he has [TS]

00:31:25   to just sit there he learned his lesson [TS]

00:31:27   and so he does and that's what saved his [TS]

00:31:29   life and and one of the things that [TS]

00:31:31   school is you know like when his father [TS]

00:31:32   comes out and his sister comes out you [TS]

00:31:35   don't know if those are really them but [TS]

00:31:37   it could be right because they could [TS]

00:31:39   come out and be like why are you out [TS]

00:31:40   here in the backyard [TS]

00:31:42   yeah yeah I was that was it or was it or [TS]

00:31:48   was it who knows because they could have [TS]

00:31:50   been under the under the spell of evil [TS]

00:31:52   Ursula Monkton to the house the whole [TS]

00:31:54   thing where the house [TS]

00:31:55   just in the house is a threat and you [TS]

00:31:57   know nobody believes the whole thing [TS]

00:31:58   where the mother doesn't believe him and [TS]

00:32:00   his sister doesn't believe him and and [TS]

00:32:02   that was again I was having those and [TS]

00:32:03   sponge and spyker kind of moments of [TS]

00:32:05   just like this poor oh this poor kid he [TS]

00:32:08   knows the truth but nobody will believe [TS]

00:32:10   him and it's just so you know it it it's [TS]

00:32:14   a classic thing but it's just it was so [TS]

00:32:17   well done i gotta say I really loved [TS]

00:32:19   there are some funny points too [TS]

00:32:20   surprisingly the cart they got me [TS]

00:32:22   actually made me laugh out loud was the [TS]

00:32:25   scene where his parents come to collect [TS]

00:32:26   them from the have stocks and this [TS]

00:32:29   imagine your toothbrush [TS]

00:32:30   he's like picturing and picturing it and [TS]

00:32:32   I'm like what does have to do and then [TS]

00:32:33   they kind of distract you and then like [TS]

00:32:35   they pull out the and you put thanks for [TS]

00:32:37   bringing his toothbrush and like the [TS]

00:32:38   father kind of puzzle bleep rope pulls [TS]

00:32:40   the truth project this pocket I was like [TS]

00:32:41   that's a mitt like you such a good job [TS]

00:32:44   of the misdirection in the Senate [TS]

00:32:46   everything there i laughed out loud at [TS]

00:32:48   the ohio i guess i have his toothbrush [TS]

00:32:49   in my pockets like is I see what you did [TS]

00:32:51   there and that's and that's interesting [TS]

00:32:54   magic because it doesn't play on are all [TS]

00:32:56   the things we know about magic instead [TS]

00:32:57   they're like stitching together like [TS]

00:32:59   reading reality it's so mundane is not [TS]

00:33:01   known which is hilarious [TS]

00:33:03   yeah they're just doing their work and I [TS]

00:33:04   ki think I can do this I can put this [TS]

00:33:06   together and they're reading the fabric [TS]

00:33:08   of reality but they're not casting [TS]

00:33:09   spells or anything at some point he says [TS]

00:33:11   are you [TS]

00:33:12   you know gonna do a spell or something [TS]

00:33:13   or like something else like that no we [TS]

00:33:16   don't do that but they they do succeed [TS]

00:33:18   in changing the parents memories and and [TS]

00:33:21   and making the toothbrush like appear or [TS]

00:33:24   retro actively be brought or whatever [TS]

00:33:26   right [TS]

00:33:27   this result like a doctor who moment [TS]

00:33:28   there yeah oh yeah one I love the moment [TS]

00:33:31   where he's being chased by the vultures [TS]

00:33:35   of the void and that you know they start [TS]

00:33:38   to attack and then it goes into [TS]

00:33:40   parentheses and italics where he feels [TS]

00:33:44   the sensation of dying he feels the [TS]

00:33:46   sensation of the culture ripping his [TS]

00:33:48   heart out [TS]

00:33:48   oh yeah and and then oh yeah and then [TS]

00:33:50   all of a sudden it's nip and [TS]

00:33:52   everything's the seams came together and [TS]

00:33:54   suddenly he's fine and let is on top of [TS]

00:33:56   him and he set that up so beautifully by [TS]

00:33:59   doing the earlier thing of talking about [TS]

00:34:01   how they stitched together things and [TS]

00:34:04   snip here and snip there and put it back [TS]

00:34:06   together almost like a film [TS]

00:34:07   and but he doesn't make a big deal of it [TS]

00:34:10   in that moment it's just you have to [TS]

00:34:11   remember that right but afterward they [TS]

00:34:13   make it clear that they basically went [TS]

00:34:15   back and fixed it so he didn't get torn [TS]

00:34:17   up into little pieces [TS]

00:34:19   yeah but it's so beautiful gasps oh I'm [TS]

00:34:24   and part of the reason i love this and [TS]

00:34:26   I'll say this is maybe my favorite thing [TS]

00:34:30   of his I've ever read [TS]

00:34:31   um because I I like bits and pieces of [TS]

00:34:35   american gods but I don't like american [TS]

00:34:37   gods [TS]

00:34:38   it's just too long and and I like a [TS]

00:34:41   Nancy boys but and i love the graveyard [TS]

00:34:45   book um but this is just the right [TS]

00:34:50   length it it really couldn't be shorter [TS]

00:34:52   but it really couldn't be longer and I [TS]

00:34:55   mean there's no padding there's no fat [TS]

00:34:58   in this book it's just everything is [TS]

00:35:00   right there and it's done and it's just [TS]

00:35:03   beautiful [TS]

00:35:04   oh yeah I don't know I've read [TS]

00:35:05   everything I was looking through the [TS]

00:35:08   front of the book where has the also by [TS]

00:35:09   Neil Gaiman list I've read everything in [TS]

00:35:11   that list is the for adults and i have [TS]

00:35:13   read many of the things in the for all [TS]

00:35:16   ages they're not most of the illustrated [TS]

00:35:17   stuff honestly and I've red Sandman [TS]

00:35:20   which is salmon may still be my favorite [TS]

00:35:24   because i like those long epic things [TS]

00:35:27   and Sandman is is amazing in terms of [TS]

00:35:29   its ability to weave all these men you [TS]

00:35:31   know huge amounts of genres together and [TS]

00:35:34   it's so varied and so amazing and there [TS]

00:35:36   are there are episodes there are issues [TS]

00:35:38   of that than my mind are almost like [TS]

00:35:40   almost a perfect almost a perfect story [TS]

00:35:44   in my regards [TS]

00:35:45   so I will but I i love this as well and [TS]

00:35:48   I I like almost everything he's written [TS]

00:35:50   i have enjoyed almost everything that [TS]

00:35:52   he's written some of it I you know some [TS]

00:35:53   of it sticks better than others in my [TS]

00:35:55   head but I think he's amazing as an [TS]

00:35:57   author I can turn one of those gushing [TS]

00:36:00   podcast i know that's the people the [TS]

00:36:02   people who like us to love things will [TS]

00:36:04   love this episode the people who like us [TS]

00:36:05   to tear things apart will be very sad [TS]

00:36:07   I i did not like American my love I left [TS]

00:36:11   American Gods I like tonight is great i [TS]

00:36:14   I didn't think I like well it wasn't too [TS]

00:36:16   long there was two there were probably [TS]

00:36:18   some chapters in there that weren't [TS]

00:36:20   necessary that's problem [TS]

00:36:21   true but I liked it a lot i I really [TS]

00:36:23   enjoyed that I just read never where I [TS]

00:36:26   like never wear and I liked it is fun [TS]

00:36:29   IIF I read it I haven't seen the TV the [TS]

00:36:32   TV mini-series this we definitely has [TS]

00:36:34   aged poorly well so there's things that [TS]

00:36:37   are great about it and there are things [TS]

00:36:38   that are weird about it and it [TS]

00:36:40   definitely is low budget and what was [TS]

00:36:42   odd about never wears the stories that [TS]

00:36:43   started as the TV [TS]

00:36:45   yeah and then he injected into a novel [TS]

00:36:47   which is very odd but some of the [TS]

00:36:49   performances in there are fantastic the [TS]

00:36:51   guy who plays the Marquis is great and [TS]

00:36:54   that that will that I think that 10 so [TS]

00:36:57   yeah [TS]

00:36:57   Harrison Joseph was great in that he's [TS]

00:36:59   fantastic was rumored at one point to be [TS]

00:37:01   a doctor in the lander eleventh Doctor [TS]

00:37:03   contender and of course islington the [TS]

00:37:05   angel is Peter Capaldi yes in radio [TS]

00:37:09   adaptation they did this year [TS]

00:37:11   benedict cumberbatch andy him mrs. [TS]

00:37:13   Lincoln yeah I mean listen I had not [TS]

00:37:14   listened to that but I i really i love [TS]

00:37:16   the book I thought he does it again that [TS]

00:37:18   is such an interesting because it that's [TS]

00:37:19   really about the permeation between the [TS]

00:37:21   lines of reality and fantasy right like [TS]

00:37:23   very very strongly delineating there and [TS]

00:37:26   that's kind of weird game and lives [TS]

00:37:27   right like that's his that's his wheel [TS]

00:37:29   her but that was also every having read [TS]

00:37:32   them in the reverse of how when they [TS]

00:37:33   were written i also have enjoyed the [TS]

00:37:36   city in the city [TS]

00:37:38   china mieville kind of feeling with a [TS]

00:37:40   with me everywhere because it's that and [TS]

00:37:42   I know that there are others navel [TS]

00:37:44   drawing a book called on London they're [TS]

00:37:47   a bunch of urban fantasy books that play [TS]

00:37:49   this trope now but it's almost like you [TS]

00:37:51   know game and got there a little while [TS]

00:37:53   before this latest wave with never wear [TS]

00:37:55   where it is the there's the London you [TS]

00:37:57   know and then there's the magical London [TS]

00:37:59   that's living you know underground [TS]

00:38:01   mostly but just you know in parallel [TS]

00:38:04   with what's happening on the what we [TS]

00:38:06   regular people think of us as London and [TS]

00:38:09   uh yeah i like i like it a lot is Nancy [TS]

00:38:12   boys is fine i always remember too well [TS]

00:38:14   that the story of Anansi the spider was [TS]

00:38:15   something that I really remember clearly [TS]

00:38:17   learning in childhood [TS]

00:38:19   yeah and so to see that and that's [TS]

00:38:22   essentially you know spin-off of [TS]

00:38:23   American Gods uh but and I liked it but [TS]

00:38:27   I loved american gods and the graveyard [TS]

00:38:29   book now that is a book that's just [TS]

00:38:32   amazing that is a that [TS]

00:38:35   is a great piece of work that might be [TS]

00:38:36   that might be my favorite of his uh and [TS]

00:38:40   and you know the fact that it's [TS]

00:38:42   essentially a young adult book but and [TS]

00:38:45   he front loads it with the worst part [TS]

00:38:47   the murder happens at the very beginning [TS]

00:38:51   and everything else after that it's not [TS]

00:38:53   so bad it's not that murder that [TS]

00:38:55   happened at the beginning where the kids [TS]

00:38:57   parents get killed get stabbed by the [TS]

00:38:59   guy with the big knife man after that [TS]

00:39:01   it's just ghosts and friendly ghosts and [TS]

00:39:04   yeah it's fine but that beginning you [TS]

00:39:07   know that's a yeah he's had an [TS]

00:39:10   interesting career has me he's got his [TS]

00:39:12   screenplays and he's got his comics and [TS]

00:39:15   he's got stories and he's got a young [TS]

00:39:17   adult and juvenile fiction and then he's [TS]

00:39:19   got adult fiction he is all over the [TS]

00:39:23   place [TS]

00:39:24   Miriam ask ya so imagine [TS]

00:39:28   yeah they're so there's a lot there [TS]

00:39:29   without i have good omens and I haven't [TS]

00:39:31   read it that I would only ask you that [TS]

00:39:33   that was the first real game and thing [TS]

00:39:34   i've ever read because i was huge terry [TS]

00:39:36   pratchett fans starting back in cheese I [TS]

00:39:38   must have been like 10 or something i [TS]

00:39:40   started reading terry pratchett and and [TS]

00:39:43   somehow i came across that when I was [TS]

00:39:45   like well there's this other guy right [TS]

00:39:46   to terry pratchett maybe this will be [TS]

00:39:47   good though and i actually have a my [TS]

00:39:50   copy of that is autographed by both of [TS]

00:39:52   them because i saw them in close [TS]

00:39:53   succession you notice my old like [TS]

00:39:55   dog-eared paperback of them but they it [TS]

00:39:57   was it still feels cool to me they have [TS]

00:39:59   like that I love that book it's just [TS]

00:40:01   it's it's such a fascinating melange of [TS]

00:40:04   the two writers out there but there's [TS]

00:40:07   parts of that book that stick with me to [TS]

00:40:08   this day even though i haven't read it [TS]

00:40:10   in like 15-20 years probably but yeah [TS]

00:40:15   and there's some line about like a guy [TS]

00:40:17   with a is his wound from Nam was acting [TS]

00:40:19   up and there's a footnote it's like he'd [TS]

00:40:21   gone to be at nam and slipped in the [TS]

00:40:23   shower or something like that but that's [TS]

00:40:26   a very terry pratchett but like it's [TS]

00:40:27   still like it was its just oh it's a [TS]

00:40:29   lovely book about the apocalypse [TS]

00:40:31   so yeah I again i'm a huge fan of of i [TS]

00:40:36   have I think devoured almost everything [TS]

00:40:39   that he's written at least four adults [TS]

00:40:41   mostly young adults i have to the [TS]

00:40:45   volumes of absolute sandman sitting on [TS]

00:40:47   my bottom shelf and some day will come [TS]

00:40:48   not a collection but those aren't cheap [TS]

00:40:51   no they're not like a hundred bucks a [TS]

00:40:53   shot well you feel you can figure out [TS]

00:40:55   how to do it right you can get a little [TS]

00:40:56   bit cheaper than that but still he asked [TS]

00:40:57   they're expensive [TS]

00:40:58   yeah but they're gorgeous it's the only [TS]

00:41:01   tough part with them is like it's hard [TS]

00:41:02   to read because it's like they're so big [TS]

00:41:04   it's like the giant heart like you know [TS]

00:41:06   10-pound hardcover books and you're like [TS]

00:41:08   all right it's not exactly something [TS]

00:41:09   like take on the train for like what [TS]

00:41:11   yeah I've got the absolute watch men and [TS]

00:41:13   it's the same thing is it's great but [TS]

00:41:15   it's it in Norma's the coffee table 10 [TS]

00:41:17   ya light light on the caption balancing [TS]

00:41:19   on your chest and wake up just before it [TS]

00:41:21   kills you when you fall it falls on your [TS]

00:41:23   face [TS]

00:41:23   actually yes that's basically it so what [TS]

00:41:27   else what else to say about ocean at the [TS]

00:41:29   end of the lane before we move on you [TS]

00:41:30   have any any other the scene we didn't [TS]

00:41:32   touch upon which i really like to my [TS]

00:41:33   cousin actually was saying it was his [TS]

00:41:35   favorite teen was the scene where they [TS]

00:41:37   bring the ocean to him and he goes into [TS]

00:41:40   the illusion right yeah that's that's [TS]

00:41:42   that that's the premise of that I mean [TS]

00:41:43   the story it's the title and it's the [TS]

00:41:45   idea that she calls it upon our notion [TS]

00:41:48   even though it's just a pond and then we [TS]

00:41:50   you know we we finally see we get the [TS]

00:41:53   payoff of you know that had just how [TS]

00:41:56   this thing is an ocean when he's he's in [TS]

00:41:58   it and he has to go in there there are [TS]

00:42:01   they going to put a minute to protect [TS]

00:42:03   him [TS]

00:42:04   yeah yeah yeah yeah and he but he can [TS]

00:42:07   see and he knows everything in the [TS]

00:42:10   universe right yeah but if he was going [TS]

00:42:12   to stay there [TS]

00:42:14   the longer he would stay there the more [TS]

00:42:16   diffuse he would become until he was no [TS]

00:42:18   longer a person or being or a an [TS]

00:42:21   intelligence who just be spread out [TS]

00:42:24   yeah you can you can't know everything [TS]

00:42:25   in the universe without just being the [TS]

00:42:27   universe so you have to you'll you'll [TS]

00:42:30   you know you like a little alka-seltzer [TS]

00:42:32   pillage could get out of there is really [TS]

00:42:34   just dissolve away and that and then of [TS]

00:42:38   course that's what at what happens when [TS]

00:42:39   a lady is you know she has to go off i [TS]

00:42:42   like to that the the family came from [TS]

00:42:44   across the ocean to the old country [TS]

00:42:48   yeah so that that's that that that's a [TS]

00:42:50   nice bit of mythology that if the ocean [TS]

00:42:53   is essentially the universe that they [TS]

00:42:56   are from somewhere else and I you know I [TS]

00:42:59   without there's a lot of that just now [TS]

00:43:01   touches where it's not overbearing and [TS]

00:43:03   it's not full of detailed you know well [TS]

00:43:07   we came from this place and all that [TS]

00:43:08   it's just like they're from somewhere [TS]

00:43:10   else you get it but if anybody needs any [TS]

00:43:13   more than that [TS]

00:43:14   what's wrong what's funny to me is that [TS]

00:43:15   there's you know we're talking about [TS]

00:43:17   your practice i can go and there's the [TS]

00:43:18   old mrs. hemp stock character is very [TS]

00:43:21   reminiscent to me of so there's there's [TS]

00:43:24   a series of terry pratchett about these [TS]

00:43:27   witches including a Granny Weatherwax [TS]

00:43:28   was like the oldest of old witches and [TS]

00:43:31   like there's not there's some there's [TS]

00:43:32   something there with those two [TS]

00:43:33   characters in some ways they're very [TS]

00:43:35   similar very built from the same mold [TS]

00:43:37   these like the wise old women who are [TS]

00:43:39   kinda kinda Reverend at the same time [TS]

00:43:42   kinda catchy but like you know clearly [TS]

00:43:44   incredibly powerful and I think that's [TS]

00:43:48   that there's interesting something in [TS]

00:43:49   there and also the fact that you know so [TS]

00:43:52   many of the characters someone mentioned [TS]

00:43:55   so many it i think it's one of the [TS]

00:43:56   blurbs here I thought that was [TS]

00:43:58   interesting is someone comments and all [TS]

00:44:00   thinking all the women are brilliant and [TS]

00:44:01   I was like this is interesting that this [TS]

00:44:02   is this is a book that that very much [TS]

00:44:04   revolves around female characters [TS]

00:44:06   despite the the antagonist being a boy [TS]

00:44:08   but female characters certainly make up [TS]

00:44:12   the ball I mean the only other male [TS]

00:44:14   characters i can think of are the father [TS]

00:44:15   and the Minor Roger yeah and yeah he [TS]

00:44:18   doesn't last very long new but yeah and [TS]

00:44:22   even the father who spends most of the [TS]

00:44:24   book being sort of a pond of Ursula [TS]

00:44:26   Monkton right so that's you know that's [TS]

00:44:28   an element to he asks the narrator asks [TS]

00:44:31   them about the about the women are made [TS]

00:44:34   about the men are there are there men [TS]

00:44:36   around there like why would we yes yes [TS]

00:44:38   why we need them [TS]

00:44:39   Willingham sometimes but they go away [TS]

00:44:41   again we only need men to make more men [TS]

00:44:44   yeah yeah I was there why would we want [TS]

00:44:47   to do that and get point it know it [TS]

00:44:54   struck me reading the acknowledgments we [TS]

00:44:56   talked about how he wrote it and he goes [TS]

00:45:00   into how each night he would read it [TS]

00:45:02   aloud in bed to his wife and he he [TS]

00:45:06   learned and discovered more about the [TS]

00:45:08   words while he was reading them aloud [TS]

00:45:10   and that had never happened to him [TS]

00:45:12   before [TS]

00:45:12   and I think that really comes through [TS]

00:45:14   that's that's part of why it just sound [TS]

00:45:17   you know it's yeah and I mean I do that [TS]

00:45:21   all the time as a playwright because i'm [TS]

00:45:23   writing for things to be spoken aloud [TS]

00:45:25   and so it was really neat to see how [TS]

00:45:30   this kind of shifted because it does [TS]

00:45:32   feel different to me from some of his [TS]

00:45:34   other novels and I don't know if that's [TS]

00:45:36   it or if it's the just that the narrator [TS]

00:45:38   is supposed to be a child but he's [TS]

00:45:41   written from children's point of views [TS]

00:45:42   before so that area is not child though [TS]

00:45:44   the narrator is an adult for calling [TS]

00:45:46   being right right right not like the [TS]

00:45:49   same next write the same i don't know I [TS]

00:45:51   i read a few chapters of one of my [TS]

00:45:53   novels while we were my wife and I were [TS]

00:45:56   driving back from LA to San Francisco [TS]

00:45:57   and the car radio was broken and she had [TS]

00:46:00   been reading this novel written so I [TS]

00:46:02   just was reading chap the next chapters [TS]

00:46:04   boy was that and I mean honestly time [TS]

00:46:09   it's a humbling experience [TS]

00:46:10   what an incredible thing to do because [TS]

00:46:13   all of your weaknesses are laid bare [TS]

00:46:16   when you read 11 I I once tried to [TS]

00:46:19   record an audio book of one of my novels [TS]

00:46:21   and like could not record the first [TS]

00:46:23   chapter because i kept changing like no [TS]

00:46:25   got that sounds terrible have to change [TS]

00:46:26   that like and then you get to the point [TS]

00:46:28   where it's like all right [TS]

00:46:29   even this is gonna take a ton of editing [TS]

00:46:31   oh I've gotta like go through read it [TS]

00:46:33   all out change everything then go get [TS]

00:46:35   back and reread it and recorded but then [TS]

00:46:37   I'm probably just gonna find more stuff [TS]

00:46:38   that i need to change but it does your [TS]

00:46:40   words take on a totally different [TS]

00:46:41   character when they're spoken aloud like [TS]

00:46:43   the hay singh and that you mean you know [TS]

00:46:46   this but like you know the pacing in the [TS]

00:46:47   and where you take poz with them on the [TS]

00:46:49   rhythm yeah and all this the sound [TS]

00:46:52   yeah well one of the things I love i'll [TS]

00:46:54   find a link to this for the show notes [TS]

00:46:56   because it's it is a lot of fun to read [TS]

00:46:58   Elmore Leonard has these ten rules of [TS]

00:47:00   writing and I don't have them memorized [TS]

00:47:03   but they're fantastic and there he is [TS]

00:47:06   right i mean they work their one of them [TS]

00:47:09   is you know nobody expressed relates [TS]

00:47:12   they said just say I know I know he's [TS]

00:47:14   got the central I've heard that one you [TS]

00:47:16   know and they didn't say it explicitly [TS]

00:47:19   they just said it [TS]

00:47:21   you don't need your adverbs let the [TS]

00:47:23   adverbs go you know and then when you [TS]

00:47:25   need one [TS]

00:47:26   it's there and it's effective because he [TS]

00:47:29   does he use adverbs every now and then [TS]

00:47:31   just not very much and it really helps [TS]

00:47:35   with that rhythm and it really helps [TS]

00:47:36   with you know because a lot of the [TS]

00:47:38   things we add in to sound smart when [TS]

00:47:41   we're writing he would never say out [TS]

00:47:43   loud you know and and when you strip all [TS]

00:47:46   those things away suddenly have [TS]

00:47:47   something that just it sounds real one [TS]

00:47:51   of the things that bugs me in reading [TS]

00:47:55   dialog is when people address each other [TS]

00:47:58   by names a lot and then like that always [TS]

00:48:02   sounds fake to me yesterday and yes [TS]

00:48:04   exactly convenient [TS]

00:48:05   I know what yes Jason Jason I understand [TS]

00:48:08   what you're saying Jason but Jason's I [TS]

00:48:09   don't think you're fully thinking this [TS]

00:48:10   through Jason I don't think i am and it [TS]

00:48:14   feels weird for me just like I'm saying [TS]

00:48:16   guy but like which is interesting when [TS]

00:48:18   applied to this book where we have a [TS]

00:48:20   character who never gets named right [TS]

00:48:22   like that's kind of on the other end of [TS]

00:48:23   the spectrum but it works right like [TS]

00:48:25   it's at the hem stocks get named the ham [TS]

00:48:28   stock Sanderson to get named the opal [TS]

00:48:30   miner the father insisted the mother [TS]

00:48:32   nobody else is only half sister doesn't [TS]

00:48:35   have a name and it does she [TS]

00:48:36   yeah not that's not even occur to me [TS]

00:48:38   until writer that's amazing yeah like [TS]

00:48:40   that singular way it doesn't it's not it [TS]

00:48:42   doesn't bother me registers a lot of [TS]

00:48:44   books in which you would be like what [TS]

00:48:46   the heck is this guy's name already but [TS]

00:48:47   like you know I haven't seen that that [TS]

00:48:50   so effectively pulled off since fight [TS]

00:48:52   club so the ocean at the end of the lane [TS]

00:48:55   has already been optioned by Tom Hanks's [TS]

00:48:58   production company play tone and then [TS]

00:49:00   he'll make a great little boy [TS]

00:49:02   yeah that's right to be great now the v [TS]

00:49:04   well Tom Hanks's company which which [TS]

00:49:06   obviously was one of the co-producers of [TS]

00:49:08   like band of brothers and from the earth [TS]

00:49:12   to the moon and they're making they're [TS]

00:49:14   the ones who are making American Gods is [TS]

00:49:16   an HBO series [TS]

00:49:17   mhm and then they are also doing [TS]

00:49:21   apparently for a feature a option to [TS]

00:49:24   this so that's why i think a [TS]

00:49:26   pre-existing relationship there I the [TS]

00:49:29   the less the new story I've got on this [TS]

00:49:31   is from februari so obviously there you [TS]

00:49:34   know there's there's more purple an [TS]

00:49:35   introduction and the options it's [TS]

00:49:37   interesting options don't always mean [TS]

00:49:39   that [TS]

00:49:39   always filigree lights but that's [TS]

00:49:41   interesting that the dead but that's [TS]

00:49:44   where it is and yet you know again 200 [TS]

00:49:47   less than 200 pages [TS]

00:49:48   this is the kind of story that you do [TS]

00:49:50   want to make a movie out of because you [TS]

00:49:52   don't have to drop you know seventy [TS]

00:49:55   percent of it in order to get online and [TS]

00:49:57   Game of Thrones or flipping through the [TS]

00:49:59   pages really fast like a harry potter [TS]

00:50:01   book where it's like now just supposed [TS]

00:50:03   to say then over here you know I've [TS]

00:50:04   argued for years the that a short story [TS]

00:50:06   makes a better movie than a novel right [TS]

00:50:08   because a novel is kind of it and short [TS]

00:50:10   story every word has to count movies are [TS]

00:50:13   short stories you're exactly stories TV [TS]

00:50:15   shows and movies TV shows novels example [TS]

00:50:17   comic books [TS]

00:50:18   yeah yeah movies are short stories and [TS]

00:50:21   so adapting short stories are in this [TS]

00:50:23   case it's a short novel makes a lot of [TS]

00:50:25   sense and he's got another let and knew [TS]

00:50:28   not the lie T and it's novel ish it's [TS]

00:50:32   establish a novel is it novel is it new [TS]

00:50:36   was their novelty little think there was [TS]

00:50:38   a novelty of it yeah course it's novel [TS]

00:50:40   ask its novel ask excellent well before [TS]

00:50:44   before we go I want to ask you gentlemen [TS]

00:50:46   the musical question that's not actually [TS]

00:50:49   musical but i like to ask and whenever [TS]

00:50:51   we talk about books which is what are [TS]

00:50:53   you reading i'm kind of curious what [TS]

00:50:55   other you look what are you reading [TS]

00:50:59   oh yeah we should get lex friedman to do [TS]

00:51:00   a jingle for what are you reading he [TS]

00:51:02   would totally do that then we could play [TS]

00:51:04   it because it would be we would want to [TS]

00:51:06   listen to it but he would do it for us [TS]

00:51:08   just imagine your head with nobody has [TS]

00:51:10   to do it because then we'll have to play [TS]

00:51:12   it [TS]

00:51:12   I personal various it's it's nice [TS]

00:51:15   because we read lots of things we did [TS]

00:51:16   this was a short book i'm sure there Dan [TS]

00:51:18   even mentioned that he had been reading [TS]

00:51:20   another book before he started reading [TS]

00:51:22   the ocean available and i started [TS]

00:51:23   reading another book directly after [TS]

00:51:25   finishing the ocean and you just tearing [TS]

00:51:27   it up on vacation i tell you i'd like [TS]

00:51:29   that especially when there's no internet [TS]

00:51:31   i read like crazy [TS]

00:51:32   yeah that's book it's booked this my [TS]

00:51:34   family my family so we have this this my [TS]

00:51:37   uncle's got this place in the finger [TS]

00:51:39   lakes and there's no internet there in [TS]

00:51:40   the very little cell signal it makes up [TS]

00:51:42   made of it is haha my family which I [TS]

00:51:46   mean is primarily made up of of [TS]

00:51:49   librarians and a lot of teachers and we [TS]

00:51:52   sit around and [TS]

00:51:53   read a lot and my my cousin's husband [TS]

00:51:55   once commented after like walking into a [TS]

00:51:57   room with like six people reading books [TS]

00:51:59   like man you must really drive your [TS]

00:52:00   neighbors crazy with that sound of [TS]

00:52:01   flipping pages then you can I come with [TS]

00:52:05   you to finger like sometimes like the [TS]

00:52:06   pacification it's pretty awesome but I'm [TS]

00:52:08   not gonna lie it's great my god i love [TS]

00:52:11   it's very quiet and then yeah so I'm so [TS]

00:52:14   i finished you've been reading before [TS]

00:52:16   that I finish the second book in been [TS]

00:52:18   Aaron bitches rivers of London's here's [TS]

00:52:22   your urban fantasy 7 london i was gonna [TS]

00:52:23   drop his neighbor yes I read so I read [TS]

00:52:26   the rivers of London which i think is [TS]

00:52:27   marketed in the u.s. under a midnight [TS]

00:52:29   riot which is kind of a not as good [TS]

00:52:31   title in my opinion but I read the [TS]

00:52:33   second book which is called moon over [TS]

00:52:34   soho which I liked [TS]

00:52:36   I like those books they're they're not [TS]

00:52:38   they're not quite my favorite urban [TS]

00:52:39   fantasy book remains the guy carries [TS]

00:52:41   Felix caster series which is awesome and [TS]

00:52:44   this is this is fun but like doesn't [TS]

00:52:46   quite get up there for me i had been [TS]

00:52:47   part of the Felix caster what makes [TS]

00:52:48   those whose greatest they're basically [TS]

00:52:50   such a tone perfect noir set in London [TS]

00:52:53   acceptance imagine Philip Marlowe were [TS]

00:52:55   an exorcist in London look it's just [TS]

00:52:57   it's brilliant it's incredibly well done [TS]

00:52:59   but these are still fun and they're kind [TS]

00:53:02   of they deal with a young man who is a [TS]

00:53:06   police constable and in his first book [TS]

00:53:08   in the first book he encounters a ghost [TS]

00:53:10   and then somehow gets recruited to work [TS]

00:53:13   under the last sort of remaining wizard [TS]

00:53:16   who works for the Metropolitan Police [TS]

00:53:18   who is like a you know [TS]

00:53:19   Detective Chief Inspector and so he's an [TS]

00:53:22   apprentice wizard as everybody is also a [TS]

00:53:24   police constable that's fun and then I [TS]

00:53:28   picked up before i left about a [TS]

00:53:30   paperback which had been a while I [TS]

00:53:31   realized end up on a paperback book and [TS]

00:53:33   so long that my ebooks have become my [TS]

00:53:34   paperbacks I'll still buy occasionally [TS]

00:53:37   books in hardcover like I bought the [TS]

00:53:38   neil gaiman book hardcover but if I want [TS]

00:53:40   some this kinda like the quick disposal [TS]

00:53:41   read like i usually buy books but about [TS]

00:53:43   a the back of the latest book in the in [TS]

00:53:46   nyomi Novak's Temeraire series my book [TS]

00:53:49   one of that [TS]

00:53:50   yeah my simple the latest one is called [TS]

00:53:52   crucible of gold about a dragon's [TS]

00:53:55   halfway to two-thirds of the way through [TS]

00:53:56   it probably I I read everything else in [TS]

00:53:59   the series but it's been many years [TS]

00:53:59   since i read the last one so i kind of [TS]

00:54:02   like but it's it's it's pretty good in [TS]

00:54:04   terms of the ability to sort of pick [TS]

00:54:06   it up even years later and be like oh [TS]

00:54:08   yeah I kind of remember who the main [TS]

00:54:10   characters this are in she's quite a [TS]

00:54:12   good writer and she does a great job of [TS]

00:54:13   capturing that sort of the other CS [TS]

00:54:15   forester Patrick O'Brien like elements [TS]

00:54:19   of the the swashbuckling nautical tales [TS]

00:54:21   but like she goes interesting places [TS]

00:54:23   with those books which I didn't think [TS]

00:54:24   that she would both quote-unquote [TS]

00:54:27   literally in terms of like they spend a [TS]

00:54:29   lot of time sort of globe-trotting as [TS]

00:54:31   well as they could have been just sort [TS]

00:54:34   of adventure fun series but she actually [TS]

00:54:35   gets into some issues that i thought [TS]

00:54:37   were really interesting in terms of like [TS]

00:54:38   well these dragons are sentient em are [TS]

00:54:41   they basically slaves like what's the [TS]

00:54:43   deal with that so it gets a little more [TS]

00:54:46   little more depth than I thought it [TS]

00:54:48   would originally and so this is like the [TS]

00:54:50   sixth book in the series i think the [TS]

00:54:51   seventh one is coming out pretty soon so [TS]

00:54:54   those are fun enjoy them all right well [TS]

00:54:56   I've got the first one on my candle it's [TS]

00:54:58   ready to go i had enough people [TS]

00:55:00   recommended that i had to buy it [TS]

00:55:01   David what a what have you been reading [TS]

00:55:03   anything interesting [TS]

00:55:04   well I've been reading been doing [TS]

00:55:07   research for something that involves [TS]

00:55:09   magic and magicians [TS]

00:55:11   so what I'm not reading fiction reading [TS]

00:55:14   this book called slights of mind which I [TS]

00:55:18   know Lex Friedman has red actually [TS]

00:55:19   because we've talked about it and it's [TS]

00:55:21   about it's not just an optical illusion [TS]

00:55:24   but it's how illusions work and how our [TS]

00:55:27   minds try to rationalize them and [TS]

00:55:30   especially how we know that a magic [TS]

00:55:35   trick is a trick you know we know we're [TS]

00:55:37   being distracted and yet we still go for [TS]

00:55:39   it [TS]

00:55:40   we still accept it why and so it's [TS]

00:55:42   really interesting and it's it talks [TS]

00:55:44   with Penn & Teller a lot and a couple of [TS]

00:55:46   other magicians and pickpockets and so [TS]

00:55:48   it's really fascinating research then on [TS]

00:55:52   the fiction side I've got this book [TS]

00:55:55   called summer and bird by Catherine [TS]

00:55:58   Catmull which my friend who just read [TS]

00:56:02   ocean as well he said if you really like [TS]

00:56:04   the last two chapters of that [TS]

00:56:06   try reading a book that's all that right [TS]

00:56:08   oh my god you know it's a little more [TS]

00:56:11   poetic it's a little more fantasy [TS]

00:56:13   oriented than this necessarily but he [TS]

00:56:18   claims it's very much in line [TS]

00:56:20   that so I'm giving it a try and then [TS]

00:56:22   I've got the last policeman by Ben [TS]

00:56:25   winters sitting on my kindle which I i [TS]

00:56:29   think it one mystery award actually but [TS]

00:56:33   it's about a cop in it it's a [TS]

00:56:36   pre-apocalyptic story where they all [TS]

00:56:39   yeah there's like this this asteroid [TS]

00:56:42   coming that they know is going to hit [TS]

00:56:44   the earth and destroy it and so all [TS]

00:56:46   these people have you know quit their [TS]

00:56:48   jobs and they're going off to do [TS]

00:56:50   whatever they want in the last few [TS]

00:56:51   months before it hits and there's a [TS]

00:56:54   murder and this is his chance to step up [TS]

00:56:57   and be a policeman to be a real [TS]

00:56:59   detective instead of just a policeman so [TS]

00:57:00   he goes and tries to solve this murder [TS]

00:57:02   and it's the first of a trilogy and the [TS]

00:57:05   second one just came out apparently and [TS]

00:57:08   so again I've had you know like five or [TS]

00:57:10   six people including scott McNulty hated [TS]

00:57:13   the first one was very good and I was [TS]

00:57:17   like all right i'll give it a try i read [TS]

00:57:19   accelerometer by charles stross which I [TS]

00:57:22   really liked and charles stross is funny [TS]

00:57:24   because some of his stuff i really like [TS]

00:57:26   and some of the stuff leaves me kinda [TS]

00:57:27   cold his his halting state series that [TS]

00:57:32   set in the near future in Scotland an [TS]

00:57:34   independent Scotland as part of the EU [TS]

00:57:36   they're fine they don't really thrill me [TS]

00:57:40   I like Saturn's children which is his [TS]

00:57:42   wild sex pot takes a grand tour of the [TS]

00:57:45   solar system novel that was nominated [TS]

00:57:47   for Hugo accelerant oh I really liked it [TS]

00:57:50   so it's a little bit older [TS]

00:57:51   that's one of his more well-regarded [TS]

00:57:54   like that sort of one of his flagship [TS]

00:57:55   novel yeah it's really good i guess [TS]

00:57:58   published 2006 it does feel a little bit [TS]

00:58:01   the first few chapters he's doing a lot [TS]

00:58:03   of jargon that is recognizable uh that [TS]

00:58:07   that is cultural references and now [TS]

00:58:09   they're a little bit dated there seven [TS]

00:58:11   years dated uh but but as you might have [TS]

00:58:14   set it as you might guess from the title [TS]

00:58:16   things accelerate rapidly and you leave [TS]

00:58:20   the the weakest chapters that are set in [TS]

00:58:23   the near very near future behind and it [TS]

00:58:26   gets increasingly weird as it goes and [TS]

00:58:29   it tries to portray in a way that vernor [TS]

00:58:31   vinge e and a bunch of other writers [TS]

00:58:32   who've tried to [TS]

00:58:33   about the singularity when when [TS]

00:58:35   acceleration of human growth is a [TS]

00:58:41   exponential and it's like you could be [TS]

00:58:43   humans won't even be able to understand [TS]

00:58:44   it will be things will be advancing so [TS]

00:58:46   fast and and so if you can portray that [TS]

00:58:48   you're like all right i mean like one of [TS]

00:58:50   my favorite veggie novels he basically [TS]

00:58:52   just everybody ahead in time a hundred [TS]

00:58:53   years and there's nobody left in my cup [TS]

00:58:55   the singularity must happen to well and [TS]

00:58:58   then continue on right so in [TS]

00:59:00   acceleration dos tres actually like [TS]

00:59:02   shows you tries to show you what the [TS]

00:59:04   singularity would be like if you're a [TS]

00:59:05   person who was living through it and I [TS]

00:59:08   think he does a pretty good job it's not [TS]

00:59:10   I mean it's not perfect because it's a [TS]

00:59:12   very difficult concept he does have a [TS]

00:59:14   little bit of a plot to string you along [TS]

00:59:15   as well it does a lot of the same things [TS]

00:59:18   that I I sort of feel like Kim Stanley [TS]

00:59:19   Robinson was trying to do in his Hugo [TS]

00:59:24   nominated 2312 but what I really liked [TS]

00:59:29   about a XL Rondo and people i know who [TS]

00:59:32   listened to our Hugo cast know that I [TS]

00:59:33   didn't really like 2312 I don't like [TS]

00:59:35   accelerometer did all sorts of things [TS]

00:59:37   that that Kim Stanley Robinson just [TS]

00:59:39   failed to do with 2312 that for a guy [TS]

00:59:41   who gets tagged a lot of times as being [TS]

00:59:43   a strong as being a guy who's a you know [TS]

00:59:46   tech guy and he's more interested in a [TS]

00:59:48   lot of the technology stuff than the [TS]

00:59:50   than the people i think that's one of [TS]

00:59:52   the I i think that might be a knock on [TS]

00:59:55   him is that is that he doesn't always [TS]

00:59:56   have these his character healing Karen [TS]

00:59:56   have these his character healing Karen [TS]

01:00:00   that's right but and yet in Excel Rondo [TS]

01:00:02   like people are people in the future and [TS]

01:00:06   they have passions and they have loves [TS]

01:00:08   and there's there's even in these women [TS]

01:00:11   there is a scenic accelerometer where [TS]

01:00:13   there's an entire culture that is [TS]

01:00:15   running in a in a virtual reality [TS]

01:00:16   simulation on a little chip that's in a [TS]

01:00:19   spaceship the size of a soda can that's [TS]

01:00:21   half way to Alpha Centauri on a giant [TS]

01:00:23   solar sail and yet there is still petty [TS]

01:00:26   human jealousy and misunderstandings and [TS]

01:00:29   all sorts of things happening in the [TS]

01:00:30   virtual reality in the soda-can because [TS]

01:00:33   people are people and i like that that [TS]

01:00:35   he you can you can talk about the future [TS]

01:00:37   and completely indescribable social [TS]

01:00:39   change and technological change and [TS]

01:00:42   still have a novel with a real beating [TS]

01:00:44   human heart which accelerometer I think [TS]

01:00:46   house so I liked it and it's it is weird [TS]

01:00:49   but but I think good weird so I like [TS]

01:00:52   that and then the other one I would [TS]

01:00:53   mention is i'm reading roger ebert's [TS]

01:00:56   memoir life itself [TS]

01:00:58   he is a good he is a really good writer [TS]

01:01:01   speaking of people who are good writers [TS]

01:01:02   and a lot of that was in blog form and [TS]

01:01:06   various points on his site and but [TS]

01:01:08   there's also a lot of original material [TS]

01:01:09   and it's all put together it's not like [TS]

01:01:12   a collection of blog post is written in [TS]

01:01:13   chapters about his life and it's [TS]

01:01:16   fascinating because it even as just a [TS]

01:01:18   portrait of a an American from the [TS]

01:01:22   Midwest in the middle you know from the [TS]

01:01:24   middle of the 20th century and looking [TS]

01:01:27   at that and then looking at sort of the [TS]

01:01:29   height of newspaper journalism and I [TS]

01:01:33   it's a fascinating read by a guy who is [TS]

01:01:35   really you know a really good writer and [TS]

01:01:37   you know it's funny we talk about a lot [TS]

01:01:40   of books on this podcast the thing that [TS]

01:01:43   strikes me more than anything else [TS]

01:01:44   within the characters more than the [TS]

01:01:45   story more than the plots is if you get [TS]

01:01:47   somebody who can write who like has a [TS]

01:01:50   has a great style and tone I'll follow [TS]

01:01:53   them almost anywhere because those [TS]

01:01:54   people are not that easy to find [TS]

01:01:57   yeah we were saying sometimes you follow [TS]

01:01:59   along with a writer because it'll be [TS]

01:02:01   like you like two plots you like their [TS]

01:02:03   characters you like their sense of humor [TS]

01:02:05   and then there are those writers that [TS]

01:02:06   you think they just got it and I Roger [TS]

01:02:09   Ebert of all you know people we think of [TS]

01:02:11   him as the two thumbs up you know movie [TS]

01:02:13   critic [TS]

01:02:13   he is such a great writer and in some [TS]

01:02:16   ways I think we didn't realize it until [TS]

01:02:18   or most people didn't realize it until [TS]

01:02:20   he started blogging after he lost his [TS]

01:02:21   voice anyway great fun and that's why [TS]

01:02:25   when we were in the Midwest we went to [TS]

01:02:26   steak and shake because inside it must [TS]

01:02:28   be right and I'm California I've never [TS]

01:02:30   been to a snake and check before but we [TS]

01:02:31   went because of roger ebert so there [TS]

01:02:33   don't ya [TS]

01:02:35   now we have a burger city that's sitting [TS]

01:02:37   on my kindle right now and drank it's [TS]

01:02:39   good it's good i mean i read it i was [TS]

01:02:41   reading bits because you can just sort [TS]

01:02:42   of read a few chapters and co-read novel [TS]

01:02:44   and then come back and read a few more [TS]

01:02:45   chapters and it's enjoyable [TS]

01:02:48   alright I think we got to the end at to [TS]

01:02:51   the ocean at the end of the lane at the [TS]

01:02:52   pot and the podcast have probably been [TS]

01:02:56   here before so many times do that I'm [TS]

01:03:00   not cast about but we don't remember it [TS]

01:03:03   yeah oh no it's good it's a book which [TS]

01:03:06   will find a book [TS]

01:03:08   yeah in the ocean at the end of the lane [TS]

01:03:11   at the end of the pot the Monster at the [TS]

01:03:12   End of the whole monster line the vast [TS]

01:03:14   ocean at the end of the lane at the end [TS]

01:03:16   of it I guess I'm very confused man [TS]

01:03:19   alright well this was fun and I guess I [TS]

01:03:20   guess we had to summarize that we would [TS]

01:03:22   say we let we really liked it perhaps [TS]

01:03:24   even loved neil gaiman the ocean at the [TS]

01:03:26   end of the lane got a lot of hype he's a [TS]

01:03:28   very well-known author guess what [TS]

01:03:30   it's good he's a good writer that's why [TS]

01:03:32   he's well known that because the hype [TS]

01:03:34   not because of marketing it's because [TS]

01:03:35   these are really good at it right [TS]

01:03:38   that's about right you yet in a nutshell [TS]

01:03:40   alright excellent well that's it for [TS]

01:03:44   this edition of the uncomfortable and I [TS]

01:03:48   want to thank my guests my my two guests [TS]

01:03:50   who excellently went through neil gaiman [TS]

01:03:52   and the ocean at the end of the lane Dan [TS]

01:03:55   Morgan thank you as always [TS]

01:03:56   always a pleasure to actually read [TS]

01:03:59   something beyond a podcast about it it's [TS]

01:04:00   nice it's nice to read books isn't it it [TS]

01:04:02   is great it is especially on vacation [TS]

01:04:05   where ya been through all over that [TS]

01:04:07   finger lakes I'm coming and going back [TS]

01:04:09   and going back on vacation next week and [TS]

01:04:12   is that I wish you have in your mind [TS]

01:04:15   David lower thank you for being him [TS]

01:04:18   thank you always a pleasure always a [TS]

01:04:20   pleasure very nice to have you here and [TS]

01:04:22   thank you everybody out there in podcast [TS]

01:04:25   land for listening to us talk about [TS]

01:04:26   books and be silly at the same time [TS]

01:04:28   that's pretty much the Charter the [TS]

01:04:30   uncomfortable so thank you for listening [TS]

01:04:31   and until next time I remain Jason sell [TS]

01:04:35   your post [TS]

01:04:36   goodbye [TS]