Hello Internet

H.I. #84: Sloppy Buns


00:00:00   let's descend into prayer for this

00:00:01   podcast dear podcast gods please forgive

00:00:04   the sins we've committed over the last

00:00:05   half-hour and let this episode actually

00:00:07   make it to air amen amen

00:00:12   it seems Brady that Trafalgar Square is

00:00:16   doubling down on their policy of no fun

00:00:19   big time I was there the other day

00:00:21   mm-hmm and you know how you're not

00:00:23   allowed on the lines and you said there

00:00:24   was like some guard right well now the

00:00:27   whole lion area at the bottom of

00:00:29   Nelson's column had like this like black

00:00:33   and yellow crime scene esque tape around

00:00:37   it so you couldn't even get to within

00:00:38   touching distance of the Lions yet alone

00:00:40   climb on them it was like all

00:00:41   quarantined there was no water in the

00:00:44   fountains so there was no fun to be had

00:00:47   in the fountains seriously it was crazy

00:00:49   it was the least fun place in all of the

00:00:53   UK except when you talked about

00:00:56   Trafalgar Square and you were dissing it

00:00:58   and you were quite right to be dissing

00:00:59   it you did leave out Nelson's column

00:01:01   itself which i think is one of the great

00:01:03   sites of London and that is still a

00:01:05   reason to go to Trafalgar Square and I

00:01:07   do still love that I guess but it

00:01:09   doesn't help that Nelson's column is now

00:01:11   in the center of this no fun zone

00:01:13   yeah and on one side you have Trafalgar

00:01:16   Square which used to be fun and on the

00:01:18   other side you just have a massive

00:01:20   traffic intersection yeah it needs a

00:01:23   reason to be a fun place to go but you

00:01:25   sent me this photograph of the square

00:01:28   crime scene off yeah it is hard to

00:01:31   express how enraged that made me because

00:01:36   the thing I was aware of when I was

00:01:38   there the first time and saw those signs

00:01:40   about don't climb on the Lions the thing

00:01:42   that a bunch of people were doing which

00:01:44   the guard seemed totally okay on is

00:01:46   there's two positions to photograph

00:01:48   yourself with the Lions at Trafalgar

00:01:50   Square

00:01:50   there is the risky one for the

00:01:53   adventurous types which is to climb up

00:01:55   on to the actual back of the lion and

00:01:57   get a photograph there yeah but lots of

00:02:00   families take a kind of classic

00:02:02   Trafalgar Square photo which is a dad

00:02:05   will raise up their kids onto the paws

00:02:09   of the lion so like there's this

00:02:10   relatively low area between

00:02:13   the two pause of each of the Lions and

00:02:15   every family loves to pack their kids in

00:02:18   between the paws and take photographs of

00:02:20   that it's a super cute photo right it's

00:02:21   great and it seemed like that was okay

00:02:24   with the guards they weren't stopping

00:02:25   anybody from doing that it was just

00:02:27   going on the backs of the Lions but now

00:02:29   like you said they've put this tape

00:02:31   around the whole thing so that you can't

00:02:34   touch the Lions you certainly can't put

00:02:36   people between the paws of the Lions

00:02:38   it's unbelievable again it makes me so

00:02:40   angry I could just I don't know it well

00:02:43   before you go off on one there are two

00:02:45   possible explanations for this that have

00:02:48   come to mind mm-hmm the first and the

00:02:51   one that I hope is true but is by far

00:02:53   the least likely is that in a hallow

00:02:56   internet wikipedia style lockdown moment

00:02:59   the sheer act of us talking about a

00:03:01   topic has caused such nuisance making by

00:03:04   tims that the authorities have had no

00:03:06   choice but to essentially lock down the

00:03:10   Lions which would amuse me no end but

00:03:12   clearly is not the case the second and

00:03:15   more likely scenario is that some kind

00:03:17   of work is going on some kind of

00:03:20   preparation maybe they were having to do

00:03:23   something to to concrete up above and

00:03:26   they didn't want things falling down

00:03:27   onto people from Lord Nelson or they

00:03:30   were prepping something I mean the fact

00:03:31   the fountains are empty as well tells me

00:03:33   that maybe they're doing though you know

00:03:35   once or twice a year

00:03:36   spring clean so I think the most likely

00:03:39   scenario is that this was a temporary

00:03:40   measure but nevertheless it would be fun

00:03:45   if it was it was like a Wikipedia style

00:03:47   page lock there and that would cause

00:03:49   again we would never promote Wikipedia

00:03:52   vandalism that's the wrong thing to do

00:03:54   and of course we never promote social

00:03:57   disobedience on this podcast that would

00:04:00   be wrong to do to promote people to go

00:04:02   and sit on the backs of the Lions to

00:04:03   retweet people doing that kind of thing

00:04:05   that would be wrong on many levels but

00:04:07   neither of us would ever do such a thing

00:04:08   and as we've said that the perfect storm

00:04:10   of the two is to go into the Wikipedia

00:04:13   page for Trafalgar Square and fill it

00:04:15   with photos of a city on the line yeah

00:04:18   we would never encourage that but I'm

00:04:21   always suspicious about this because my

00:04:23   personal experience with

00:04:26   bureaucracies and this kind of structure

00:04:29   is there's like a crank shift that only

00:04:31   turns in one direction and the direction

00:04:34   that it turns is more regulations more

00:04:37   rules and less fun and that it's

00:04:39   essentially impossible to turn that back

00:04:42   in the other direction and so yeah even

00:04:45   if this is for building works let's say

00:04:47   let's say is the best case scenario that

00:04:49   go we just want to polish up the liens

00:04:51   right and I can still imagine them

00:04:53   thinking after a little bit like hey you

00:04:55   know what this square is way easier to

00:04:57   manage

00:04:58   once we wall off the whole central

00:05:00   column like now we don't have to worry

00:05:02   about anything and then some lawyer

00:05:04   would say hey you know what now you

00:05:06   don't have to worry about people

00:05:07   climbing up on Nelson's column not even

00:05:09   on the liens there's just like a

00:05:10   stair-step thing that you can climb up

00:05:11   on why don't we just leave it up it's

00:05:14   already been up for a couple of weeks

00:05:16   and everything's been fine so that

00:05:17   that's my fear it's like I can just feel

00:05:20   the machinery of desaturating the world

00:05:23   turning another tick yeah

00:05:27   that's my worry my favorite example of

00:05:29   fun being taken away because of safety

00:05:32   won't mean a tremendous amount to you

00:05:34   because you have no idea how the game of

00:05:37   Australian rules football works but you

00:05:39   know it's like an oblong like egg-shaped

00:05:41   bowl that people kick and catch and do

00:05:43   things like that with and it was a great

00:05:45   tradition at Australian rules football

00:05:47   games that at the end of the game when

00:05:49   the final siren went and after the

00:05:51   players had left the field they would

00:05:53   sound the siren again about five or ten

00:05:56   minutes later and everyone could run out

00:05:58   onto the field with the balls they'd

00:06:00   brought along themselves and like just

00:06:02   to run around on the field and kick the

00:06:03   ball and you could like try and kick for

00:06:05   the goals and pretend to be a hero and

00:06:07   kick the ball through the goals that

00:06:08   your heroes had just been doing wow that

00:06:10   sounds great it was great fun and you'd

00:06:11   have two or three thousand people all

00:06:13   over the field each having their own

00:06:15   little games kicking it back and forward

00:06:17   the probability of walking off that

00:06:19   field without getting hit in the face by

00:06:20   a football it was virtually zero of

00:06:23   course no guarantee that at least once

00:06:25   you would get hit by a ball you didn't

00:06:27   see coming because it was just like a

00:06:28   frenzy of balls in the air

00:06:29   but it was so much fun you know you'd

00:06:31   line up the girls and try and kick a

00:06:33   goal from an angle you just saw your

00:06:34   heroes doing it and then eventually so

00:06:36   many people were complaining about

00:06:38   getting hurt by getting hit by balls in

00:06:40   the head or like you know twisting their

00:06:42   ankle that eventually they banned it and

00:06:45   like it went away and it was one of the

00:06:46   great quaint traditions of Australian

00:06:48   sport that all the kids were allowed to

00:06:50   do this after a big professional game of

00:06:52   sport but gone now gone tour the

00:06:55   professionalism and health and safety

00:06:57   gone mad I tell you

00:06:58   it's not even health and safety gone mad

00:07:00   it's there's a certain kind of I think

00:07:03   undue weight that boredom and

00:07:08   seriousness and safety always have in

00:07:10   conversations because it ends up being

00:07:12   really hard to argue for the intangible

00:07:16   values like fun over the tangible thing

00:07:20   like someone could hurt themselves no

00:07:22   matter how small the probability of

00:07:24   someone could hurt themselves or a thing

00:07:26   could be dangerous is it's like I feel

00:07:28   like any possibility of that in all

00:07:31   conversations in organizations around

00:07:34   anything like it it's always biased

00:07:37   toward this direction that's why I find

00:07:40   it really frustrating you know now it's

00:07:42   a long time ago but I was always hugely

00:07:44   frustrated when I was a teacher to

00:07:45   discover how many of the things that I

00:07:47   thought were awesome cool fun things

00:07:48   that my teachers had done when I was a

00:07:50   kid in the science lab were totally off

00:07:53   limits Oh like we can't do any of that

00:07:55   like are you crazy you can't have a kid

00:07:57   touch a Van de Graaff generator what if

00:07:59   they have a heart condition we don't

00:08:00   know about it's like has this ever

00:08:02   happened in the history of ever that a

00:08:04   kids died from a heart attack from

00:08:05   touching a Van de Graaff generator and

00:08:06   they're like it could happen it's the

00:08:08   case of course it could happen but like

00:08:10   how we have to weigh these things

00:08:11   they're like mmm no it could happen

00:08:14   we're not gonna do that like only things

00:08:15   that are totally safe oh my god it

00:08:18   really bothers me I think that's why the

00:08:19   Trafalgar Square thing gets right at the

00:08:21   heart of me just to top it off I think

00:08:23   this is the funniest thing I have seen

00:08:25   which is related to Trafalgar Square

00:08:27   being the no fun zone just mere hours

00:08:30   ago on the hello internet subreddit

00:08:33   someone posted a video of themselves in

00:08:36   Trafalgar Square a couple of years ago

00:08:37   doing some juggling and the guards at

00:08:41   Trafalgar Square come over and tell him

00:08:42   the juggling

00:08:43   not allowed in Trafalgar Square it looks

00:08:45   like this guy was putting together one

00:08:46   of those videos where he's doing

00:08:48   juggling in various spots all over the

00:08:50   world he says in the description that

00:08:52   like he'd traveled to all of these

00:08:54   various places and there was only one

00:08:56   spot in the whole world where they told

00:08:58   him

00:08:59   oh sorry you're not allowed to juggle

00:09:00   and that was Trafalgar Square yeah I

00:09:02   mean to be fair that is also probably

00:09:04   one of the prime spot where like you

00:09:05   know professional jugglers try and bust

00:09:07   for twenty minutes and make a bit of

00:09:08   money if there was one place where I

00:09:10   thought you would get cracked down on

00:09:12   for juggling it actually would be

00:09:13   Trafalgar Square

00:09:14   that's like busker central isn't it and

00:09:17   they're like very fine-tuned to people

00:09:19   doing unauthorized busking they're

00:09:20   busking I can totally understand

00:09:22   well juggling is a busker classic as

00:09:24   well it's not busking if you don't have

00:09:25   a like a sad poppers hat in front of you

00:09:28   with some coins that you placed inside

00:09:29   of it to get the thing going they

00:09:31   clearly thought that's what he was

00:09:32   starting to do I need to watch the video

00:09:33   I don't get me wrong I like a good

00:09:35   juggle do you like a good juggle I'm a

00:09:36   very good juggler oh yeah

00:09:38   yeah how many balls can you juggle the

00:09:40   ones Brady well I'm not very good at

00:09:42   four but I'm very good at three and I

00:09:44   can do like behind my back and tricks

00:09:46   and under my legs and stuff well I look

00:09:48   forward to the brady juggling roadshow

00:09:50   i can't believe you haven't been

00:09:51   subjected to it yet to be honest you

00:09:53   know what I'm surprised I haven't been

00:09:55   subjected to it yet either but I have a

00:09:57   feeling like the next time we see each

00:09:58   other in person there's gonna be some

00:09:59   juggling if there's like middle kids

00:10:01   that are bored sometimes my wife will

00:10:03   say just do a bit of juggling for them

00:10:05   just to cheer them up and I'd like it's

00:10:06   them all excited to say that feels very

00:10:08   uncle Brady do you pull coins from

00:10:10   behind their ears as well do you do that

00:10:12   do you take their noses now I'm a bit

00:10:14   more like edgy than that I tell you what

00:10:18   a couple more things though coming back

00:10:20   to the Lions hmm because I was reading

00:10:22   about why they banned people going on

00:10:24   the Lions and I read quite a bit about

00:10:25   this and how they were like structural

00:10:27   problems they did like surveys of the

00:10:29   Lions and found that people were

00:10:30   starting to wear them away and stuff of

00:10:33   course yeah yeah but like fix them then

00:10:35   because this is part of the experience

00:10:37   it's like saying we're gonna ban people

00:10:39   from throwing coins into the Trevi

00:10:41   Fountain because occasionally coins hit

00:10:43   the stonework and cause little chips

00:10:45   right well yeah and the Trevi Fountain

00:10:48   is old and famous and important and

00:10:49   shouldn't be chipped but it's way more

00:10:51   important that you're there to throw

00:10:52   coins into it so this kind of damage and

00:10:56   wear and tear

00:10:56   is part of the story of the lines so if

00:11:00   they get worn away and you've got to

00:11:01   give one of them you know a bit of back

00:11:03   surgery or reinforce one or do some work

00:11:05   on them okay do the work but you've got

00:11:09   to take the hit you know I'm with you

00:11:11   100% and I think this is another example

00:11:13   of where there's an easy argument to

00:11:16   make which like with the pigeons as well

00:11:18   it's like you can put a number on how

00:11:20   much damage does pigeon poo cause in

00:11:22   Trafalgar Square every year in terms of

00:11:24   dollars right you can say like it costs

00:11:25   us X amount to clean this thing every

00:11:27   year you can also say oh the Lions if we

00:11:30   need to strengthen up the backs every

00:11:32   decade it's gonna cost us X amount and

00:11:34   like that is a real clear bureaucratic

00:11:36   argument but what it just feel like is

00:11:39   the intangible thing on the other side

00:11:40   is but you know this is why people come

00:11:43   here if you have to have touristy

00:11:46   interesting things for people to do and

00:11:49   if you continually crank this dial of

00:11:52   having more and more of them more and

00:11:55   more off limits like what is the point

00:11:56   of all of this it's like yes I'm sure it

00:11:59   costs a lot of money to clean up all the

00:12:00   pigeon poo in Trafalgar Square but

00:12:02   people come from the world over to see

00:12:05   the pigeons and to go on the backs of

00:12:06   the Lions and surely hundreds of

00:12:09   thousands of tourists a year pay through

00:12:13   tax revenue and buying stuff and

00:12:15   supporting the local economy like they

00:12:17   pay for that upkeep like there's no way

00:12:19   that it doesn't but I feel like somehow

00:12:21   the preservationist side and the cost

00:12:24   side of the argument is just the de

00:12:26   facto winner and it's it's like

00:12:28   impossible to try to be on the side of

00:12:31   these intangible things and I feel like

00:12:33   I got again I'm totally with you on this

00:12:35   it's like hey look guess what these

00:12:37   lions being outside wears them away

00:12:40   everything erodes over time you're going

00:12:43   to have to update them anyway

00:12:46   why not update them more frequently and

00:12:48   also let people enjoy them and we could

00:12:51   just put the whole thing inside a

00:12:52   gigantic plastic box right and there's I

00:12:55   go well there's also sun damage getting

00:12:56   through that box so we can put it in a

00:12:58   gigantic opaque box right all around

00:13:00   your vulgar square and nobody is allowed

00:13:03   in is like is that what you want now

00:13:04   it'll last a really long time right but

00:13:06   nobody gets to appreciate it like that

00:13:08   feels like the logical conclusion of

00:13:10   where

00:13:10   sends up well that wouldn't be good with

00:13:12   a big black box around Trafalgar Square

00:13:14   everybody wants that nobody wants that

00:13:16   except someone going like well you know

00:13:19   it would save us a lot of money every

00:13:20   year on meeting its cost like yeah I'm

00:13:21   sure it would I'm sure it goddamn would

00:13:23   it's fine but like the last thing I just

00:13:25   want to mention about this is the

00:13:26   juggling guy reminded me of something

00:13:27   that I haven't thought about in years

00:13:30   but as soon as I saw his video I was

00:13:31   like oh yeah I forgot about this event

00:13:33   so this is something like maybe 7 years

00:13:38   ago now my wife and I thought that we

00:13:42   might be leaving London permanently we

00:13:45   weren't sure this is the time of my life

00:13:47   where I sort of ended up living in

00:13:48   Hawaii for a little bit but we were

00:13:50   thinking there's a good possibility that

00:13:52   we're leaving London and we won't come

00:13:54   back obviously that didn't happen but we

00:13:56   thought that at the time and now the

00:13:59   place where my wife and I met each other

00:14:03   in person for the first time was

00:14:06   Trafalgar Square if you are standing at

00:14:09   the National Gallery and you are looking

00:14:11   toward Nelson's column we actually met

00:14:14   right beneath the paws of one of those

00:14:16   lions and it'd be the lion on the left

00:14:18   hand side that is where we met for the

00:14:21   first time and so when we were leaving

00:14:23   London we thought you know what might be

00:14:24   nice is let's take some really nice

00:14:28   photographs of ourselves in Trafalgar

00:14:30   Square as just like a little memory and

00:14:32   momento of here's a city that we really

00:14:35   like and here's the place that we met so

00:14:37   my wife and I we got dressed up all nice

00:14:40   and fancy my wife had a bunch of very

00:14:42   high-end photography gear and we got up

00:14:44   super early in the morning and we went

00:14:46   out to Trafalgar Square and we thought

00:14:48   okay we're gonna take some photographs

00:14:49   of ourselves at sunrise right like we

00:14:51   get there there is nobody in Trafalgar

00:14:54   Square the place is totally empty it's

00:14:57   just my wife and I and she sets up her

00:14:59   camera on the tripod so that we can take

00:15:01   some pictures of us in various locations

00:15:02   and we're there for mere minutes before

00:15:06   out of nowhere a guard comes along and

00:15:09   tells us that we're not allowed to be

00:15:10   taking these pictures in Trafalgar

00:15:12   Square it's like are you serious man

00:15:15   like is this is this something that's

00:15:16   really happening right now he goes yeah

00:15:17   well you're not allowed to do commercial

00:15:19   photography like okay but we're taking

00:15:22   pictures of ourselves

00:15:24   for us lives like this isn't commercial

00:15:26   photography look what are you talking

00:15:28   about there goes uh well you have a

00:15:30   tripod with that camera so it must be

00:15:32   commercial photography there's no

00:15:33   tripods allowed in Trafalgar Square for

00:15:35   taking photographs it's one of these

00:15:36   things where it's just so crazy making

00:15:39   you feel like you're in this bizarro

00:15:40   moment of weight like presumably you

00:15:44   don't want tripods in Trafalgar Square

00:15:46   because they take up a lot of space and

00:15:48   there's a lot of people here but there's

00:15:49   only three humans in the world in

00:15:51   Trafalgar Square right now it's like my

00:15:53   wife myself and this guy telling us that

00:15:55   we're not allowed to take these pictures

00:15:56   it was just like this incredibly

00:15:58   frustrating back-and-forth where we're

00:16:01   trying to convince this guy like we're

00:16:02   not taking commercial photographs and

00:16:05   he's like well why are you dressed up

00:16:06   all nice and like he just wouldn't let

00:16:07   it go and he's like now you can't do

00:16:09   this you got to go you got to get out of

00:16:10   here and not take these nice uh memento

00:16:12   photographs of yourself bothering no one

00:16:15   at 6:00 a.m. or whatever in Trafalgar

00:16:17   Square how did that end did you walk

00:16:19   away with the tie between your legs or

00:16:20   did you stand up for your rights and

00:16:21   sock him once I didn't punch him if

00:16:24   that's what you're saying all right well

00:16:26   here's an interesting thing which is

00:16:27   that we knew in advance that Trafalgar

00:16:30   Square and there's one other place in

00:16:31   the UK which have really strange rules

00:16:34   around photography inside of them

00:16:37   they're super harsh on commercial

00:16:40   photography and getting filming rights

00:16:41   and all the rest of this yeah because

00:16:43   it's a revenue stream yeah and it's like

00:16:45   again also for doing like filming stuff

00:16:47   there it makes total sense because you

00:16:49   see movies and TV shows being filmed in

00:16:51   Trafalgar Square and they have to close

00:16:52   the whole place down it's like yeah of

00:16:53   course that makes sense because it's a

00:16:55   big hassle like it takes up the square

00:16:56   bla bla bla but I think it's a very big

00:16:59   difference between that kind of thing

00:17:00   and to people who are just like no we're

00:17:02   taking photographs for ourselves like we

00:17:04   don't have a crew here there's just two

00:17:06   people and we've come at a time that's

00:17:07   bothering no one the problem is you two

00:17:09   is so damn good-looking he probably

00:17:11   thought you were both models yes I'm

00:17:12   sure that is precisely what it was he's

00:17:14   like oh look at these amazingly

00:17:15   good-looking people they must be models

00:17:18   but so all we did was like the dude was

00:17:20   super frustrating and we went up the

00:17:22   staircase and sort of by the National

00:17:24   Gallery and just waited for a little bit

00:17:26   he wandered around and then seemed to

00:17:28   disappear from somewhere so he just went

00:17:30   back out and took a bunch of photos and

00:17:31   then left it's just it's just like what

00:17:33   the lion is like okay sure mr. guard

00:17:35   like I know you're gonna stand here

00:17:36   you're gonna take the camera if

00:17:38   leave it on the tripod and try to take

00:17:39   some pictures of ourselves so I'm just

00:17:40   gonna wait until you're further away and

00:17:42   out of eyesight and then just do it

00:17:44   again and then leave but it's like yeah

00:17:46   Jeff allgor square no fun zone for a

00:17:49   long time and the ratchet is only

00:17:51   getting turned up the whole professional

00:17:53   photography thing also it must be

00:17:55   getting just impossible to police

00:17:56   because any amateur these days you know

00:18:00   has a tripod and a posh camera and a

00:18:02   nice lens but also you could be there

00:18:05   just clowning around on your iPhone and

00:18:07   you could be some youtuber making your

00:18:08   video that's gonna get watched by 30

00:18:10   million people how they're policing that

00:18:12   I've got no idea it doesn't make any

00:18:14   sense I think especially with YouTube

00:18:16   the whole notion of commercial is very

00:18:17   strange because I took some videos of

00:18:20   the signs in Trafalgar Square and I put

00:18:22   that up on my second channel and the

00:18:24   second channel does have ads that run on

00:18:27   that video so like was I commercially

00:18:29   filming in Trafalgar Square on my iPhone

00:18:32   it's like I guess by have a letter of

00:18:34   the law I was but by no reasonable

00:18:37   person's definition would you say oh

00:18:38   that was a commercial filming operation

00:18:42   lock him up lock him up it is very funny

00:18:45   because that you also see when I was

00:18:47   there on that day I did see a bunch of

00:18:48   people with what I think of as like the

00:18:50   the KC nice tat filming set up where

00:18:54   they have a very impressive looking

00:18:56   canon camera with a little road

00:18:58   microphone attachment on the top and the

00:19:00   gorilla pod stand to hold it in their

00:19:02   hands and it is it's this funny thing of

00:19:05   like is that just some kid filming stuff

00:19:09   for himself right or is that a vlogger

00:19:11   with millions and millions of

00:19:12   subscribers like you don't know and then

00:19:14   is that a commercial operation or not it

00:19:16   really is crazy and it's unbelievable

00:19:18   and it's frustrating

00:19:19   I was actually alerted to this situation

00:19:21   by a couple of Tim's who I think had go

00:19:25   onto the square they're from San

00:19:27   Francisco but they were holidaying in

00:19:28   London I was a married couple and they'd

00:19:30   gone to the square I think for a little

00:19:32   bit of gray inspired civil disobedience

00:19:34   and they obviously saw this roped-off

00:19:38   area and realized they couldn't get up

00:19:40   on the lines so they took like a photo

00:19:42   and posted it on Twitter sort of saying

00:19:45   look how unfun the no-fun zone is now

00:19:48   and I saw this and I just happened to be

00:19:50   on the train on

00:19:51   my way into London where I had meetings

00:19:53   that day right near Trafalgar Square and

00:19:56   I felt so bad I felt like I had to do my

00:19:58   bit for London and for the UK I didn't

00:20:00   want them leaving thinking so terribly

00:20:03   of Trafalgar Square so I did message

00:20:05   them on Twitter and I said I'll tell you

00:20:07   what if you're in that same place at six

00:20:09   o'clock tonight I'll come and say hello

00:20:10   and let's take a better photo

00:20:12   so sure enough we went later on and they

00:20:15   turned up and like we get our own little

00:20:16   photoshoot and funnily enough I think

00:20:18   that photoshoot may have been with your

00:20:21   love lion because as I think about it

00:20:23   now it was that lion on the left nearest

00:20:26   the gallery as you look down mm-hmm from

00:20:29   the gallery so I think we were doing our

00:20:31   little photo at the grail of life we

00:20:33   didn't get stopped by the way kudos to

00:20:36   the first person that goes on to

00:20:37   Wikipedia and refers to that line as the

00:20:39   love line right now brady you're just

00:20:41   encouraging Wikipedia vandalism that we

00:20:42   don't promote that on the show don't do

00:20:44   that you wouldn't want to cause but

00:20:45   could be view problems I don't want to

00:20:47   tell you that I don't want to tell you

00:20:48   that you're so good to the tim's brady

00:20:50   you really are taking photographs in

00:20:52   Trafalgar Square manufacturing shoes

00:20:54   getting vinyl records printed you're

00:20:56   very good to the audience you always put

00:20:58   me to shame with that no I was writing

00:21:00   hereby and like they had previously

00:21:03   posted another picture as well where

00:21:04   they had been at the San Francisco

00:21:06   baseball stadium sitting like near where

00:21:08   I sat when I went as well so they'd been

00:21:11   goodtimz our like rewarding good Tim

00:21:13   äj-- this episode of Hello Internet is

00:21:16   brought to you in part by Squarespace

00:21:18   Squarespace is everything you need to

00:21:21   create a website of your own even if you

00:21:24   know nothing about making websites if

00:21:26   you have an idea you want to show off if

00:21:28   you have a business you want to start

00:21:30   you're going to need a website and

00:21:32   Squarespace is the place to do it they

00:21:34   offer award-winning templates that are

00:21:37   the most beautiful way to present your

00:21:39   ideas online and with Squarespace

00:21:42   there's nothing to install patch or ever

00:21:45   upgrade all of that is a hassle you

00:21:47   don't want to have to deal with you

00:21:50   don't want to learn about PHP servers or

00:21:53   whatever no that is no fun at all not

00:21:56   going to get you anywhere

00:21:57   Squarespace just lets your website's

00:21:59   come into existence and if you do run

00:22:01   into any trouble Squarespace has

00:22:03   award-winning 21

00:22:05   seven customer support now if you want

00:22:07   to bring your stories to life with

00:22:10   Squarespace just go to Squarespace calm

00:22:12   /hello you'll be able to try a

00:22:15   Squarespace for free for 14 days and

00:22:17   receive 10% off your first purchase

00:22:20   that's squarespace.com /hello offer code

00:22:24   hello so get started right now with your

00:22:27   idea for website thank you to

00:22:30   Squarespace for supporting the show so

00:22:33   gray in the last podcast I talked about

00:22:36   how traffic responds to ambulances and

00:22:41   you know people getting out the way of

00:22:42   ambulances and that caused lots of

00:22:44   interesting discussion and there was

00:22:46   lots of legal debate and things like

00:22:47   that and there's no need to go over all

00:22:49   that again I think it's been well and

00:22:51   truly thrashed out on the reddit but one

00:22:54   thing I said that caused some

00:22:57   controversy was I referred to the

00:23:01   drivers of ambulances as ambulance

00:23:04   drivers mm-hmm and I don't know if you

00:23:07   have seen some of the reaction this

00:23:09   course I said at the time that a lot of

00:23:11   people who work in ambulances listen to

00:23:13   the podcast and that was proven to be

00:23:14   true because they all got in touch I

00:23:16   have seen very much of this as well yes

00:23:19   and basically that to summarize their

00:23:22   argument I supposedly have done them a

00:23:26   disservice by referring to them as

00:23:28   ambulance drivers as mere ambulance

00:23:30   drivers because they are trained

00:23:33   paramedics and they don't take well to

00:23:35   being called ambulance drivers and I was

00:23:38   wondering how you felt about this how

00:23:39   you felt to this admonishment that I

00:23:41   received it's a funny thing because I

00:23:43   feel like there is a presumption from

00:23:46   the people who are paramedics about a

00:23:49   thing that we're saying which were not

00:23:50   because when I say something like

00:23:53   ambulance driver which is the phrase

00:23:55   that I also used I feel like in my mind

00:23:58   you can translate that into like a hero

00:24:01   among men right like like that person is

00:24:04   doing like awesome cool danger is

00:24:07   driving down the roads like they're

00:24:09   going to literally save lives yeah

00:24:11   they're going in all of these dangerous

00:24:13   situations there was no suggestion they

00:24:15   were not trained to do it as well

00:24:17   not-here is like ambulance driver it

00:24:19   does not equate to like uber driver like

00:24:22   dude with a car right who's just doing a

00:24:24   thing that is not the comparison in my

00:24:27   mind like I can totally understand from

00:24:30   the perspective of a paramedic like you

00:24:31   go through a whole bunch of training and

00:24:33   then you you have a title that you are a

00:24:35   paramedic that means a particular thing

00:24:38   in your mind

00:24:39   whereas when we're talking about it at

00:24:41   least in my head it's all kind of mushed

00:24:42   together where it's like oh yes of

00:24:44   course

00:24:44   ambulance drivers and paramedics like

00:24:46   these are just people who are saving

00:24:48   people's lives I and they are incredibly

00:24:50   valuable members of society and they do

00:24:52   great things we got a lot of feedback

00:24:54   because I can understand why from the

00:24:57   perspective of a paramedic they might

00:24:59   feel like being referred to as an

00:25:02   ambulance driver is less than what they

00:25:04   are but that is by no means the feeling

00:25:07   in at least my head and I presume your

00:25:10   head when you are discussing what these

00:25:12   people do well yes

00:25:15   can I second what gray just said but can

00:25:18   I also add with all the love in the

00:25:20   world to those paramedics get off your

00:25:23   high horse

00:25:24   whoa because I accept that you have this

00:25:27   incredible training and knowledge that I

00:25:29   don't have and I'm so thankful for what

00:25:31   you do and I think you're heroes and you

00:25:32   know one day one of you might be leaning

00:25:34   over me to save my life and I hope

00:25:36   you're not still angry at me at that

00:25:37   point and the words he will say is he's

00:25:39   putting the mask over your face are your

00:25:42   Brady Haran yeah has this on your high

00:25:44   horse but no the thing is like yes you

00:25:48   have all this medical training but at

00:25:51   that moment in time when you are driving

00:25:53   the ambulance to me you are an ambulance

00:25:55   driver and that also is important and

00:25:58   amazing and well trained and brilliant

00:26:00   mm-hmm but a person driving an ambulance

00:26:02   is an ambulance driver kind of like by

00:26:04   definition even if they've stolen it

00:26:07   they're an ambulance driver at that

00:26:09   point in time and if like say someone

00:26:10   drove into the front wall of my house

00:26:12   tomorrow and knocked over the wall and I

00:26:15   was upset at them and I was like here on

00:26:17   the podcast complaining about it and I

00:26:19   said oh great gonna believe it like some

00:26:21   car driver drove into my wall and

00:26:23   knocked it over yesterday they're not

00:26:25   gonna call me up and say well actually I

00:26:26   happen to be a brain surgeon and I'd

00:26:28   prefer if you'd said a brain surgeon

00:26:30   drove into

00:26:31   my world yesterday like yes maybe you

00:26:33   are a brain surgeon but at the time you

00:26:35   were driving the car and knocking over

00:26:37   the wall all you were to me was the

00:26:40   driver of a car

00:26:41   likewise when someone is driving an

00:26:43   ambulance past me at high speed just go

00:26:45   and save a life at that point in time

00:26:47   you're an ambulance driver and I think

00:26:49   it's a fair description of what you are

00:26:50   and trust me you know if I am out in the

00:26:53   field making one of my videos and a

00:26:55   little kid says mommy mommy look at that

00:26:58   cameraman over there I'm not gonna turn

00:27:00   around and say excuse me

00:27:02   I'm a trained journalist and I have

00:27:04   interview skills and I also do the

00:27:06   editing and I've also put things

00:27:07   together and I'm gonna create a lovely

00:27:09   narrative out of the story I just think

00:27:11   okay I'm a cameraman at the moment

00:27:14   oh my god okay a few things I feel like

00:27:17   I cannot go down this line of reasoning

00:27:19   with you the thing is I would bet so

00:27:22   much money in real life that you would

00:27:24   turn to that kid and be like excuse me I

00:27:26   am a trained journalist like everything

00:27:28   I know about you everything about our

00:27:30   private conversations to me like are all

00:27:33   arrows pointing in the direction of yes

00:27:35   Brady would tell that child that he is a

00:27:38   trained journalist and not really a

00:27:40   cameraman in that moment that you've got

00:27:42   that wrong you've got that wrong but

00:27:43   putting that aside the ambulance driver

00:27:45   thing okay so if you were in that field

00:27:48   filming a video about ambulances and

00:27:51   they let you drive the ambulance would

00:27:55   you say that you were an ambulance

00:27:56   driver in that moment no okay you caught

00:28:00   me out there okay perhaps using the

00:28:02   notion of someone having stolen the

00:28:05   ambulance was maybe me taking a little

00:28:07   bit of dramatic license the amusement of

00:28:10   our listeners but I do think it is fair

00:28:13   to call someone who is earning money

00:28:15   while driving the ambulance an ambulance

00:28:18   driver and yes they also have an even

00:28:21   more important role to play but in the

00:28:23   context of my story mhm

00:28:25   all that mattered was that their own

00:28:26   ambulance driver so here's the thing

00:28:27   that I'm a little bit foggy on so the

00:28:29   preferred term is paramedic

00:28:31   I feel like I don't understand very

00:28:33   clearly the boundaries of this word

00:28:35   because do paramedics only exist in some

00:28:40   form of transit like I'm thinking about

00:28:43   right a paramedic is coming in and

00:28:45   ambulance where a paramedic is coming in

00:28:47   a helicopter do paramedics operate

00:28:51   inside of the hospital or do they

00:28:53   operate exclusively outside of the

00:28:57   hospital in transit back to it like I

00:28:59   don't understand actually very clearly

00:29:01   where the boundaries of this are you're

00:29:02   asking me I'm already in trouble for not

00:29:04   knowing this so you don't ask me okay

00:29:06   I'm looking at now while I look this up

00:29:08   I have another question I want to throw

00:29:09   out there to the paramedics if you're a

00:29:12   paramedic and you lose your driver's

00:29:15   license let's say for drink-driving I'm

00:29:17   assuming you can't now drive the

00:29:20   ambulance are you still a paramedic if

00:29:22   you can't drive an ambulance who drives

00:29:25   the ambulance

00:29:25   are there any just bespoke ambulance

00:29:27   drivers you know I Drive the ambulance

00:29:29   but like I've got nothing about the

00:29:31   human body like I just get the

00:29:32   paramedics there to those people even

00:29:34   exist that's a very interesting question

00:29:36   I feel like economies tend towards

00:29:38   specialization I feel like somewhere in

00:29:40   some country this has to be a clear

00:29:42   division of labor that there does exist

00:29:44   someone who is an ambulance driver only

00:29:47   who's trained on racetracks and like

00:29:51   pretend villages to be able to drive

00:29:52   around corners because that seems like a

00:29:54   very different skill sets from being

00:29:57   able to stop someone from bleeding to

00:29:59   death in their kitchen I don't think

00:30:01   there's necessarily overlap so there

00:30:03   must be someplace that has this division

00:30:04   of labor I'm sure we'll find out from

00:30:06   all of the paramedics well we're not

00:30:08   gonna find out from the paramedic

00:30:09   Wikipedia page because that's a little

00:30:11   bit nebulous I was looking over that too

00:30:13   and I'm like I'm getting no help from

00:30:14   your Wikipedia page this is now what I'm

00:30:15   looking for plays plays plays nuisance

00:30:19   Tim make the term ambulance driver

00:30:22   redirect to paramedic Brady you you are

00:30:25   such a troublemaker it's a thing I have

00:30:27   to disapprove of greatly in your

00:30:29   personality so these are the questions

00:30:31   are there people who are ambulance

00:30:33   drivers only and do paramedics only

00:30:37   exist in transit from location our

00:30:41   paramedics do they not exist inside of a

00:30:43   hospital I feel like this is this is

00:30:45   what we need to know please go to the

00:30:46   reddit's and have a big angry discussion

00:30:49   about it I'm feeling a bit bad about

00:30:51   this Wikipedia thing I'll tell you what

00:30:53   if you are a Wikipedia mischief-maker

00:30:56   not only are you very naughty and we

00:30:58   don't

00:30:59   proof of that but I hope at least once a

00:31:01   year you make a donation to the wiki

00:31:03   foundation to support them because like

00:31:05   Wikipedia is pretty important it's one

00:31:07   of the few things that like when I get

00:31:09   pestered about donations on the Internet

00:31:10   I will sometimes say you know what I

00:31:12   like Wikipedia I'm gonna check him a few

00:31:15   bucks that is the same in our household

00:31:17   because yes it is Wikipedia it's super

00:31:19   fun to mess with and it is also maybe

00:31:22   one of the most important things for

00:31:24   civilization that has emerged in the

00:31:26   past 20 years it's on both sides of

00:31:28   those scales support your local

00:31:30   Wikipedia people was that an NPR joke I

00:31:32   don't know what that was I feel like

00:31:34   I've heard that phrase but I wasn't

00:31:35   intentionally making an NPR joke because

00:31:37   like this is something that's been on my

00:31:39   mind lately and you've just brought it

00:31:40   up by accident but I don't listen to NPR

00:31:43   radio because I live in England right

00:31:46   but I do listen to lots of NPR podcasts

00:31:48   an NPR podcasts are obviously supported

00:31:52   through like the NPR pot of money and I

00:31:55   think they've gotten themselves into

00:31:56   this weird antiquated situation now

00:31:59   where there's obviously some turf war

00:32:01   going on and there's a lot of politics

00:32:04   involved because whenever you're

00:32:06   listening to the podcasts they always

00:32:08   say if you want to support the podcast

00:32:09   and give money so we can keep making

00:32:11   this excellent podcast right go to your

00:32:13   local radio station and give them money

00:32:16   because some of that money will find its

00:32:18   way here and that's what keeps the

00:32:19   podcast guy and I understand the

00:32:21   situation that has come about and why

00:32:23   this has happened but I think at some

00:32:25   stage in PR are gonna have to say do you

00:32:28   know are like our podcasts are really

00:32:30   popular now and people want to give them

00:32:32   money but they don't want to do this

00:32:33   like indirect weird thing where they

00:32:35   have to go to their radio station and

00:32:37   prop up the radio station yeah let's

00:32:39   keep getting their podcast yeah so I

00:32:41   think NPR needs to soon revisit this

00:32:45   situation where their podcasts are

00:32:47   saying hey go to your local radio

00:32:49   station and give them money I understand

00:32:51   the politics I can see what's happened

00:32:52   as old media versus new media thing

00:32:55   going on within the one organization but

00:32:57   it's very strange to me and it's

00:32:59   starting to sound strange that makes no

00:33:01   sense to me so you're listening to an

00:33:02   NPR podcast yeah so I'm listening to it

00:33:04   and they say if you like this and you

00:33:06   want to give us money here's what you do

00:33:08   go to your local NPR radio station and

00:33:12   give them money okay so I am Joe Johnson

00:33:16   listening in Boise Idaho and I like a

00:33:19   podcast from Washington about about

00:33:21   Washington politics or something Yeah

00:33:22   right it's not about Boise it's some NPR

00:33:25   podcast broadcast to everybody and yeah

00:33:28   in theory the thing that I'm supposed to

00:33:30   do is find Boise radio be qrx 103.2 and

00:33:37   hand them an envelope full of cash like

00:33:40   that seems so crazy I don't even

00:33:41   understand how that mechanism is

00:33:42   supposed to work that is so weird it's a

00:33:44   bit like us saying if you like hello

00:33:46   internet and want to support Brady and

00:33:48   gray give money to my best friends

00:33:50   cousins sisters brother cuz I owe him

00:33:52   money for something I borrowed from him

00:33:54   six months ago

00:33:55   and that will really help me out people

00:33:58   will know I don't do that yeah I would

00:34:00   never do that they need to set up crowd

00:34:01   funding for the podcast that seems like

00:34:04   what they should do and clearly I mean I

00:34:05   can see what's happened obviously this

00:34:07   is the huge radio infrastructure which

00:34:09   is probably crumbling in some way

00:34:11   because of everyone's listening to

00:34:13   podcasts instead of radio and the radio

00:34:15   people are like worried that they're

00:34:17   gonna cease to exist totally be worried

00:34:19   they are on the way out and you don't

00:34:21   need to explain to me that that the

00:34:22   journalism of the radio stations feeds

00:34:24   into the podcast I understand all that

00:34:26   there's a New York Times podcast I

00:34:28   listen to sometimes and they always say

00:34:29   hey people always ask how to give money

00:34:31   the best thing you can do is get a

00:34:33   subscription to The New York Times

00:34:34   because that's the journalistic engine

00:34:36   that keeps this podcast going and again

00:34:38   that's true but it's that extra layer of

00:34:42   abstraction that I think makes you

00:34:45   resistant the New York Times one is at

00:34:47   least to me a much straighter arrow yes

00:34:48   this is the parent organization the New

00:34:50   York Times give us some money to support

00:34:52   the podcast it's very interesting from a

00:34:55   big organization perspective of like if

00:34:59   you want people to give you money how to

00:35:01   do it I feel like in that situation

00:35:02   let's say there was a podcast from the

00:35:04   New York Times I was listening to and

00:35:05   that I liked and I want to support it

00:35:07   like I would feel a little bit of a

00:35:09   weirdness giving to the New York Times

00:35:11   as a whole because I feel like but I

00:35:13   want to give it to this exact podcast

00:35:15   yeah but you can see that the New York

00:35:17   Times organization wants the money to go

00:35:20   to the parent organization not to the

00:35:23   podcast in particular and of course like

00:35:25   money

00:35:26   is fungible for an organization like

00:35:28   that it doesn't really matter

00:35:29   yeah but I'm thinking like if NPR was

00:35:32   doing crowdfunding

00:35:33   I think the institution's instinct would

00:35:37   be to do the thing that would probably

00:35:38   get them less money overall which is to

00:35:41   have one gigantic contribute to NPR fund

00:35:44   as opposed to setting up a whole bunch

00:35:47   of contribute to this particular podcast

00:35:50   funds even if they had some little

00:35:53   disclaimer like oh you're contributing

00:35:54   to podcast X and 50% of the revenue that

00:35:58   goes to podcast X goes to the parent

00:35:59   organization as well hmm

00:36:01   like I'd be willing to bet they would

00:36:03   make more revenue overall by asking for

00:36:06   donations to particular podcast than to

00:36:08   the parent organization but also bet

00:36:11   they would never actually set it up that

00:36:12   way no probably not

00:36:14   speaking of big organizations let me

00:36:16   tell you a funny thing that happened to

00:36:17   me yesterday I went to my local gym I

00:36:21   just want to sit in the jacuzzi actually

00:36:22   so I went along and I sat in the jacuzzi

00:36:25   because I that's what I wanted all right

00:36:27   this is what I wanted and where my sort

00:36:30   of gym is is sort of connected to this

00:36:32   posh hotel and guests of the posh hotel

00:36:34   used the same facility and this hotel

00:36:37   always hosts like away days and weddings

00:36:39   and stuff like that right so I was

00:36:41   sitting in the jacuzzi for probably half

00:36:43   an hour and there was obviously this big

00:36:45   away day happening at the hotel they

00:36:48   were all men all these men who were at

00:36:51   this away day for this business came and

00:36:53   sat in the jacuzzi around me so there

00:36:55   was like probably eight of us and the

00:36:56   seven of them worked for this business

00:36:58   and they were talking about their work

00:37:00   and then a few of them got out and then

00:37:02   a couple more came and then a few of

00:37:03   others got out and a couple more came

00:37:04   and over the course of half an hour

00:37:06   probably 16 or 17 people that worked for

00:37:09   this business set in the jacuzzi with me

00:37:12   and they spent the whole time talking

00:37:14   about their work non-stop the politics

00:37:18   of how bills lazy and isn't pulling his

00:37:20   weight and this email and their email

00:37:22   and this report I had to fill out and

00:37:23   this thing I had to do they never

00:37:25   stopped talking about their work the

00:37:26   whole time the whole half hour I was in

00:37:29   the jacuzzi and it was only at the very

00:37:30   very end it suddenly occurred to me

00:37:33   after listening to these people talk

00:37:35   non-stop about their work for half an

00:37:37   hour I had no idea what they did or what

00:37:40   business not one single thing gave away

00:37:44   what their business was and it made me

00:37:46   realize how universal people complaining

00:37:49   about their work is like I even said to

00:37:52   them at the end guys I've been listening

00:37:53   to you guys for the last half an hour I

00:37:55   have no idea what you do like what's

00:37:57   your business like and they all laughed

00:38:00   and like they realized like at certain

00:38:02   points I was like I thought I'd figured

00:38:04   it out and I was transposing different

00:38:05   businesses on to what they did they

00:38:07   could they could have been a bunch of

00:38:08   journalists seriously they could have

00:38:10   been they could have been accountants at

00:38:12   one point I thought they were like

00:38:13   estate agents and things like that I

00:38:15   couldn't figure out what they were doing

00:38:16   listening to them talk for half an hour

00:38:18   part of it made me miss working because

00:38:20   they had such comradery and you know but

00:38:23   another part of me made me realize well

00:38:25   working in their organizations pretty

00:38:27   crappy yeah you're always getting sucked

00:38:29   up into politics

00:38:30   as soon as you get past maybe five

00:38:32   people working together it's it's like

00:38:33   politics starts to happen it's just a

00:38:35   natural side-effect of the way humans

00:38:37   are so what was the business I have to

00:38:38   know now even when they told me I still

00:38:41   don't know what they did cuz apparently

00:38:42   they worked in operations for a retail

00:38:45   organization okay okay yeah so I don't

00:38:48   know exactly what that means does that

00:38:49   mean is there like head office for a

00:38:51   shop I don't know this scenario when I'm

00:38:54   talking to somebody and I get an answer

00:38:57   about their job that's what you should

00:38:58   say your job is when you don't want

00:39:00   people to ask questions because as soon

00:39:01   as they said operations for a retail

00:39:02   organization I just shut up yeah you

00:39:05   know what that's that's not a bad idea

00:39:06   I work in digital operations I mean the

00:39:09   thing I wanted to say when they said

00:39:10   that was what retail organization then I

00:39:13   was a stranger and I just basically had

00:39:15   told these people I've been listening to

00:39:16   you gossip I would have looked like some

00:39:18   kind of industrial spy or like

00:39:21   investigative journalist if I said what

00:39:23   organization yeah give me names you

00:39:25   bring out a little waterproof notepad to

00:39:28   write things down any oh yeah

00:39:29   interesting I think what's happening

00:39:32   here is there is like a larger and

00:39:36   larger portion of the economy which is

00:39:38   not directly involved in doing the thing

00:39:41   but is instead involved in managing

00:39:45   doing the thing yeah and I feel like

00:39:48   this is why is an incredibly common

00:39:51   experience to run into people and it's

00:39:53   like

00:39:53   everybody seems to be like so what do

00:39:55   you do exactly

00:39:57   like I don't understand on making a

00:39:59   thing you're overseeing people who make

00:40:01   a thing or you're overseeing departments

00:40:03   of people who make a thing it just feels

00:40:05   like the economy leans more towards

00:40:09   layers of management and I'm not even

00:40:11   saying that those layers are unnecessary

00:40:13   like I think as the economy gets more

00:40:15   complicated it shouldn't be surprised

00:40:17   that more and more people are involved

00:40:19   in which you could broadly call like

00:40:20   management or logistics like that

00:40:23   becomes more and more vital as a thing

00:40:25   to do yeah but I do have this let's call

00:40:27   it like not really great pro-social

00:40:30   tendency that in these moments when

00:40:31   somebody gives me an answer like that I

00:40:33   have a very hard time not like drilling

00:40:36   down with the person precisely what it

00:40:39   is that they do it almost always ends up

00:40:41   in this thing where is like oh if I'm

00:40:42   meeting with someone on a Friday the

00:40:44   conversation will bend towards be like

00:40:46   okay look I still don't understand this

00:40:48   morning when you went when you went into

00:40:50   work is like 9:00 a.m. what was the

00:40:53   thing that you did it's like this line

00:40:55   of questioning makes people really

00:40:56   uncomfortable yeah it would have made

00:40:59   them more uncomfortable because our bare

00:41:01   legs were touching underwater I could

00:41:02   see how that definitely encourages a

00:41:04   little bit of social walk for this I

00:41:06   love the fact that you're chatting with

00:41:07   a bunch of other guys in the jacuzzi

00:41:09   after spying on them for a while that's

00:41:11   it's like oh I wanted to go out with him

00:41:13   they were planning their night out

00:41:14   sounds like they were gonna have a big

00:41:15   night out though talking about what pub

00:41:16   they were gonna go to and go out

00:41:17   drinking and I was like oh yeah that's

00:41:20   fantastic and then these guys are

00:41:21   wondering who the hell is this hanger I

00:41:22   know from the way they were talking

00:41:25   they'd probably just think I was one of

00:41:26   them like I didn't think anyone knew who

00:41:28   anyone was like who is that guy Arden hi

00:41:30   you must be in I thought you knew who he

00:41:32   was

00:41:32   I don't know he seems to fit in you

00:41:34   could have totally blended right in this

00:41:35   is like an American Psycho situation

00:41:37   where none of these guys really know who

00:41:38   the other guys are anyway so what's it

00:41:40   matter

00:41:42   this episode of Hello Internet is

00:41:44   brought to you in part by audible

00:41:46   audible is a leading provider of premium

00:41:49   digital spoken audio information and

00:41:51   entertainment on the Internet you can

00:41:53   get a free audiobook with a 30-day trial

00:41:56   at audible.com slash hello internet

00:41:59   that's where you should go right now

00:42:01   audible.com slash hello internet to get

00:42:04   a free audiobook with your 30 day trial

00:42:07   now audible as always likes for us to

00:42:09   recommend a book so I recently read a

00:42:11   book that I can highly recommend and

00:42:14   it's tribe by Sebastian Junger he's the

00:42:17   same guy who wrote a perfect storm if

00:42:19   you ever read that it's a little bit of

00:42:21   a difficult book to describe but I can

00:42:23   briefly say that it is a little bit

00:42:25   about people in war particularly men in

00:42:28   war and how that affects them it talks

00:42:31   about some of the difficult things like

00:42:33   why is it that some soldiers really find

00:42:36   solace in being in a group in war and

00:42:38   why they can have difficulty

00:42:40   reintegrating into society afterwards

00:42:42   that makes the book sound like it's a

00:42:44   huge downer but I actually found it a

00:42:46   fascinating non downer read and it's

00:42:50   also very short which is the thing that

00:42:51   I really appreciate in books sometimes

00:42:53   so if you're looking for a book to try

00:42:55   maybe something that's a little bit

00:42:56   different than what you would normally

00:42:58   do give tribe a try on audible.com so if

00:43:02   you want to listen to it audible has it

00:43:04   with an unmatched selection of audio

00:43:07   books original audio shows which is

00:43:09   something that they have started now

00:43:10   news comedy and more you'll always find

00:43:13   what you're looking for once again get

00:43:16   your free audio book with a 30-day trial

00:43:18   today by signing up at audible.com slash

00:43:22   hello Internet that's a you DIBL EECOM

00:43:26   slash hello Internet I remember when

00:43:30   Theresa May the prime minister of the UK

00:43:33   which is prime minister as I'm speaking

00:43:34   now I don't know what the situation

00:43:36   would be with this podcast goes out the

00:43:39   prime minister who called the snap

00:43:40   election to consolidate her power as we

00:43:44   discussed and I couldn't resist

00:43:46   on election night when it all went wrong

00:43:48   for her and she lost her majority and it

00:43:51   must have been one of the less enjoyable

00:43:53   evenings of her professional career I

00:43:55   couldn't resist going back to your tweet

00:43:58   and when the election was first called

00:43:59   where you just had the Jurassic Park

00:44:02   meme of clever girl and I remember you

00:44:05   talking about it on the podcast her you

00:44:07   talked about what a genius move it was

00:44:08   people had to vote for her she cornered

00:44:11   them in such a clever way that they had

00:44:13   no choice but to vote for her and

00:44:14   increase her power for those who don't

00:44:17   know that's not how it played out then

00:44:20   she went from having a small majority in

00:44:23   the House of Commons to having no

00:44:25   majority in the House of Commons how are

00:44:27   you feeling now are you feeling sheepish

00:44:29   so I didn't follow the election at all

00:44:32   between that tweet and then when

00:44:34   somebody sent me a message about like oh

00:44:36   there's a coalition government in the UK

00:44:38   now like as far as on my radar

00:44:40   like the whole election disappeared and

00:44:41   then just reappeared several weeks later

00:44:43   yeah it's interesting and from my

00:44:45   perspective I have no idea what happened

00:44:48   in the intermediate time what's happen

00:44:51   is she's obviously in the minority she

00:44:53   hasn't got enough votes to get anything

00:44:56   through okay but what she's doing is

00:44:58   rather than forming a coalition which is

00:45:00   what happened a couple of elections ago

00:45:02   between the Conservatives and the

00:45:03   Liberal Democrats right what she's

00:45:05   trying to do as we're speaking now it

00:45:07   hasn't actually been signed and it's

00:45:09   causing controversy for some other

00:45:10   reasons that I won't bore you with but

00:45:12   what she's trying to do is broker a deal

00:45:15   with a political party the DUP from

00:45:18   Northern Ireland mm-hmm who have some

00:45:20   handful of seats in the Commons but

00:45:23   they've got just enough seats to give

00:45:26   her a majority so what she's doing is

00:45:28   she's trying to broker a deal with them

00:45:30   where they're not in coalition and they

00:45:32   don't have to support her laws and all

00:45:34   her votes and everything she does but

00:45:36   they do agree to support her on two

00:45:38   important things confidence and supply

00:45:41   so if there's a no confidence vote they

00:45:43   agree to support the government so the

00:45:45   government can stay in government and if

00:45:47   there's something that's going to block

00:45:48   up the money in the budget supply they

00:45:50   also will support the government on that

00:45:52   so it's not a coalition they don't have

00:45:54   like you know oh interests they're not

00:45:55   part of the government it's just an

00:45:57   agreement to support them on those two

00:45:59   crucial things and everything else is

00:46:01   gonna be just chaos and what they're

00:46:04   gonna get for that deal is yet to be

00:46:06   finalized like you know lb suddenly

00:46:09   gonna get lots of shiny new gorgeous

00:46:11   infrastructure in certain parts of

00:46:12   Northern Ireland as a result of this I

00:46:15   imagine that might happen yes but of

00:46:18   course the problem is Northern Ireland

00:46:19   is deeply deeply divided between its own

00:46:22   parties like the DUP lynchin phone well

00:46:24   we're not going to go into that but

00:46:26   obviously like shin vain and these other

00:46:28   parties in Northern Ireland like hang on

00:46:29   a second you're the UK government you're

00:46:31   supposed to in some ways kind of

00:46:33   keep out of the Northern Ireland mess

00:46:36   you know there's agreements here that

00:46:37   have been made and now you're like

00:46:39   budding up with just one of the parties

00:46:40   to get their votes so more messes to

00:46:44   come as we speak now this agreement

00:46:46   hasn't been signed

00:46:47   that's very interesting I thought she

00:46:48   had formed an official coalition this is

00:46:50   a much more interesting situation the UK

00:46:52   government sort of kind of taking aside

00:46:56   in the Northern Irish politics like boy

00:46:58   that sounds like a whole bunch and not

00:47:00   fun I like this idea that there's a

00:47:02   coalition that is a it's like an

00:47:04   unofficial official coalition is what's

00:47:06   happening here which is amazing because

00:47:09   it sounds like maximum instability now

00:47:11   it's like coalition's people always

00:47:13   worry about them being unstable and now

00:47:15   to not even have a coalition is unstable

00:47:18   err that's fantastic I don't know what

00:47:21   the betting markets are saying at the

00:47:22   moment but a lot of people are saying

00:47:25   that they'll probably be another

00:47:27   election this year

00:47:28   oh really interesting I think not but

00:47:30   why do you think not because I mean one

00:47:33   of the reasons this election went so

00:47:35   pear-shaped I think for Teresa may was

00:47:38   like election fatigue and I think people

00:47:40   are sick of having elections all the

00:47:42   time and they thought she was having

00:47:43   another one to be a bit greedy people

00:47:45   wanted to give her bit of a bloody nose

00:47:47   for that well they did for whatever

00:47:50   reason so I think if there's another

00:47:52   election this year it will be one that's

00:47:53   kind of forced upon them certainly I

00:47:55   don't think the Conservative Party would

00:47:57   risk holding it but I don't know what do

00:47:59   I know

00:47:59   I don't know much your bet is that if

00:48:01   there is another election it would just

00:48:03   be simply because the government just

00:48:04   falls apart it is in essentially

00:48:06   dissolves yeah and we have another

00:48:08   election interesting folks two paces

00:48:10   yeah it's interesting because again I I

00:48:13   didn't follow any of the things going on

00:48:15   but the reason I thought it was such a

00:48:16   clever move is because I did have this

00:48:18   feeling like boy really boxed in to

00:48:20   having to support Theresa May because

00:48:23   like my feeling is the result we have

00:48:25   now is kind like the worst of everything

00:48:27   because if brexit is going to happen

00:48:31   even though i am not in favor of brexit

00:48:34   i would still want the UK government to

00:48:36   be in the strongest negotiating position

00:48:39   for brexit to occur otherwise it feels

00:48:42   like cutting your nose to spite your

00:48:43   face hmm and so that's why I thought

00:48:45   like oh man this elections lockdown be

00:48:47   because everyone else is gonna make this

00:48:50   kind of like same game theory

00:48:51   calculation like well we don't want

00:48:52   brexit to happen but if it's gonna

00:48:53   happen like we might as well make our

00:48:55   position super strong now it feels like

00:48:57   oh god here we go like well the UK is

00:48:59   wandering into brexit with a real bloody

00:49:04   nose before the negotiations have even

00:49:06   really begun I feel like this is not a

00:49:08   good situation I tell you one thing

00:49:10   that's interesting that I mean I know

00:49:11   you and I are not you know we don't talk

00:49:13   a lot of politics and stuff and you know

00:49:15   especially you aren't particularly

00:49:16   interested but this does mean that if

00:49:20   BRICS it goes ahead which it seems like

00:49:22   it still will you being so wrong about

00:49:24   the general election does mean you're

00:49:27   probably more likely to be right now

00:49:29   about your bricks at prediction and that

00:49:31   is everyone seems to agree now that soft

00:49:34   brexit is much more likely than hard

00:49:37   brick so we seem to be drifting towards

00:49:39   a hard brick set before this election

00:49:41   and now soft bricks that seems like the

00:49:44   more likely scenario yeah I don't know

00:49:46   it's like I still feel like with all of

00:49:48   this stuff there's some weird part of me

00:49:49   which still thinks like this will just

00:49:50   never be resolved right but this will

00:49:52   just go on forever and ever even though

00:49:54   I know that it can't like article 50 has

00:49:55   been triggered yeah there's some part of

00:49:57   me which just can't let go of the idea

00:49:58   of like man people can stall forever

00:50:02   sometimes and are we just are we just

00:50:03   going to be left in a limbo that just

00:50:05   never ends that's a remain of fantasy

00:50:07   then that remain a fantasy suddenly

00:50:09   became a little bit more possible I

00:50:10   think it's still a fantasy but I

00:50:12   obviously was hoping we would stay in

00:50:14   the EU as well so the idea of it falling

00:50:16   apart delights me but I don't know if

00:50:18   it'll happen or not but yeah I think it

00:50:21   won't I don't think it will fall apart

00:50:23   something happens or endless negotiation

00:50:26   happens but those are different from it

00:50:27   falling apart I don't know it's been a

00:50:29   real interesting time with elections

00:50:31   that's for sure and I feel like this one

00:50:33   was to me particularly unexpected I feel

00:50:36   like I don't really understand what

00:50:37   happened between when she called the

00:50:39   election and when the election happened

00:50:41   but yeah it's surprising it is

00:50:43   interesting and I don't like the

00:50:45   position that the UK is in now because I

00:50:47   feel like it's a it's a worse

00:50:49   negotiating position but maybe if it

00:50:51   ends up being a softer brexit in the

00:50:53   long run that's better

00:50:54   I don't know who knows only in the

00:50:56   future will we know current US recording

00:50:58   this now has no idea so there was

00:51:00   another page

00:51:01   of news I wanted to bring up with you

00:51:04   this is one of the times where the fact

00:51:05   that our podcasts are so far apart comes

00:51:08   in handy or works against us I don't

00:51:10   know which it's summertime Brady you

00:51:12   can't have a lot of podcast in the

00:51:13   summer everybody knows that no you

00:51:15   certainly can't there was big news that

00:51:18   I couldn't wait to tell you it's not be

00:51:20   related we haven't actually had the buzz

00:51:21   this week is there gonna be a buzz this

00:51:22   week there's no buzz this week Brady

00:51:24   okay there has been a lot of B news in

00:51:27   fact did you not see the story about the

00:51:29   Vice President of the United States has

00:51:31   put a beehive at his house this sounds

00:51:33   vaguely familiar it was like

00:51:34   presidential buzz news in the summertime

00:51:37   Twitter is also very hard to do so I

00:51:39   haven't been keeping up with the Twitter

00:51:40   as much because it's warm outside the

00:51:43   second lady has installed a beehive at

00:51:45   the vice presidential residence it's to

00:51:47   raise awareness of the dwindling

00:51:49   honeybee population well now that we've

00:51:51   gotten some honeybees in the vice

00:51:54   presidency there's only one place to go

00:51:56   presidential honeybees in the future

00:51:58   imagine that like a big white house of

00:52:00   bees yeah that'll be awesome White House

00:52:02   or bust for bees okay so after that

00:52:05   accidental piece of buzz let me tell you

00:52:07   more importantly what I thought was

00:52:10   going to be Mount Everest news that I

00:52:11   couldn't wait to discuss with you but I

00:52:14   think it's been snatched away from me

00:52:15   because there was this story during the

00:52:17   rounds a few weeks ago that this really

00:52:20   famous feature on Mount Everest called

00:52:23   the Hillary step which is a sort of

00:52:25   rocky outcropping it's the last bit of

00:52:27   technical climbing you have to do before

00:52:29   you get to like the summit of Everest

00:52:31   mm-hmm had like collapsed had fallen

00:52:34   apart apparently it was shaken apart by

00:52:37   the earthquake that happened a couple of

00:52:38   years ago and because no one had gone

00:52:40   and navigated it since because of

00:52:42   problems on Everest all the climbers

00:52:44   were going back for the first time and

00:52:46   they were like it's not there anymore

00:52:48   there's just all this snow and the rocks

00:52:49   falling apart and my impression was it

00:52:52   had become actually easier now to get up

00:52:54   past her and go on up to the summit and

00:52:56   they were like these before and after

00:52:58   pictures doing the rounds and it looked

00:53:00   to me like it wasn't there anymore and I

00:53:02   was really excited and so just before

00:53:04   the show I was like getting everything

00:53:05   ready to tell you about it mm-hmm and

00:53:07   now there seems to be this second story

00:53:09   where climbers are saying no no no no we

00:53:12   think it's still there there's just been

00:53:13   a lot of snow and you can't see

00:53:14   properly and it's covering snow at the

00:53:16   moment but the Hillary step is still

00:53:17   there so the jury is out as to whether

00:53:21   or not this famous feature this beloved

00:53:23   feature on Mount Everest may not even be

00:53:26   there anymore it's not often you get

00:53:27   geological news is it that works in a

00:53:30   pretty slow time scale so the idea that

00:53:32   we have like a new piece of geology to

00:53:34   tell everyone about that was quite

00:53:36   exciting to me but now I don't know yes

00:53:38   I have to wait a bit longer issues of

00:53:40   the buzz might come out on a monthly

00:53:42   basis but I feel like the geology Now

00:53:44   magazine maybe comes out once a year

00:53:46   geological news happens on a geological

00:53:49   time scale yeah but like of all the

00:53:51   things that could change like all the

00:53:54   geological features in the world that

00:53:55   could change like there's only one

00:53:57   geological feature like higher than the

00:54:01   Hillary step and that is like the summit

00:54:03   of Mount Everest so sure of the summit

00:54:05   of Mount Everest disappearing which I

00:54:06   don't think is technically possible the

00:54:08   Hillary step disappearing is like big

00:54:10   news it's the second highest named thing

00:54:12   in the world I think so anyway there you

00:54:14   go there's Mount Everest non news or

00:54:17   maybe news let's wait till the snow

00:54:19   thaws but I have been hearing you Tim's

00:54:21   for those 400,000 Tim's that alerted me

00:54:24   to this news I didn't receive your

00:54:26   emails and tweets thank you so you went

00:54:31   to WWDC mm-hmm and I know you've

00:54:34   discussed this on detail in the other

00:54:37   place but I do want to find out what it

00:54:40   was like that was it good by the way the

00:54:42   other place is like a politics joke like

00:54:44   if people don't know how that

00:54:45   Parliament's work you don't name the

00:54:46   other chamber and stuff oh yeah my

00:54:48   learned friend in another place is what

00:54:50   you sometimes stay instead of like the

00:54:52   House of Lords really is it like a

00:54:53   question time thing I don't think I've

00:54:54   ever heard that yeah it's like it's like

00:54:56   a parliament thing so anyway was it good

00:54:59   did you have a good time I always feel

00:55:01   kind of funny going to a conference like

00:55:02   WWDC because I don't really have any

00:55:05   reason to be there like I'm not a

00:55:06   developer I don't have like a software

00:55:08   business that has any reason to be in

00:55:10   WWDC this is for me just totally an

00:55:13   extension of really like my professional

00:55:17   interest in Apple as a user of their

00:55:20   products and particularly interesting to

00:55:23   go after what feels like has been a long

00:55:24   time where there haven't been any

00:55:25   updates in in their products

00:55:28   I went I really enjoyed it I feel like

00:55:30   they had a whole bunch of exciting

00:55:31   announcements which it's it's kind of

00:55:34   nice to be there in person for that and

00:55:37   to be around people when that's

00:55:38   happening why well it's nice to be in

00:55:41   person because when you're watching the

00:55:43   announcements you can see other people's

00:55:45   reactions to things and you know how you

00:55:47   know what other people care about and

00:55:49   what you care about and this was this

00:55:51   was a really good show because everybody

00:55:53   got something that they liked and then

00:55:55   yeah the other reason I do like to be

00:55:57   there in person is when Apple announces

00:56:01   that they have new products like this

00:56:03   year they have new iPads they give out

00:56:06   review units to some of the people who

00:56:08   are there and mmm there are

00:56:10   circumstances under which maybe a person

00:56:13   like me can get their hands on the brand

00:56:15   new thing to get a first look at it for

00:56:18   brief periods of time and that's the

00:56:21   kind of thing that you can only do if

00:56:22   you are physically at where the

00:56:25   conference is happening that's just

00:56:27   plain exciting like it's it's super fun

00:56:29   and super interesting to see the brand

00:56:32   new thing that was announced the day

00:56:34   before which hasn't gone on sale yet so

00:56:36   I really quite like that who would have

00:56:37   thought that you of all people would

00:56:39   like get a thrill from that luck because

00:56:41   you know you're gonna get it in a few

00:56:42   weeks and you buy everything new anyway

00:56:43   so you are gonna have one who would have

00:56:45   thought that like that kind of cheap

00:56:48   thrill would penetrate your rational

00:56:52   exterior don't get me wrong like it

00:56:53   would work on me because I like cheap

00:56:55   thrills but who would have thought that

00:56:57   you would be so susceptible to the cheap

00:56:59   thrill of oh I'm getting to touch this a

00:57:01   few weeks before everyone else is that a

00:57:02   cheap thrill though I mean the joke is

00:57:04   always like Apple has this reality

00:57:06   distortion bubble that they announce

00:57:07   things and and it seems like it's

00:57:09   amazing in their presentations but

00:57:11   there's a really big difference between

00:57:13   seeing and handling something in person

00:57:15   hmm versus just seeing it presented on a

00:57:20   stage oh yeah don't get me wrong oh yeah

00:57:22   no I understand the difference between

00:57:24   saying a picture of it and actually

00:57:25   getting to use it and I just could have

00:57:27   imagined a scenario in which you said

00:57:29   well it's going to be in the shop in six

00:57:32   weeks anyway and I'm going to buy it so

00:57:34   the fact that I've touched it for 15

00:57:35   minutes six weeks before is really

00:57:38   irrelevant I'm gonna come to grips with

00:57:40   it soon anyway and I

00:57:41   no in six weeks whether it's good or

00:57:43   it's bad and it's basically just that

00:57:45   kind of not that you would boast about

00:57:48   it but that kind of boast enos of I got

00:57:50   to touch it before everyone else I would

00:57:52   have thought would have little impact on

00:57:53   you I feel like you don't understand it

00:57:55   all the joy that I'm getting out of this

00:57:56   right it's not that I get to change it

00:57:58   before other people do it's I want to

00:58:01   pass it through my own evaluation filter

00:58:04   as soon as possible so impatient you're

00:58:06   impatient to see it ya know you use you

00:58:09   don't me see you such funny words it's

00:58:10   like I want to know if the thing is as

00:58:12   good as they're saying it is but you are

00:58:15   gonna find that out like you're gonna

00:58:16   find that out whether you're at WWDC or

00:58:18   not like you're gonna find out when it's

00:58:20   in the shop if it's as good as they say

00:58:22   it is yeah I just like to find out

00:58:23   sooner it's fun to find out sooner

00:58:25   hence my word impatient which I think

00:58:27   was the ideal word for that to describe

00:58:29   that I want to find out sooner I think

00:58:31   yes but it somehow really when you use

00:58:33   the words I feel like I have the shape

00:58:35   of some like Brady thought in my mind

00:58:37   which you seem to be expressing which

00:58:39   doesn't match up with my own internal

00:58:41   experience here because if I was in

00:58:44   London still I don't think I'd be

00:58:47   feeling like oh man I can't wait to see

00:58:48   the thing like I got to get my hands on

00:58:49   it I would just be waiting until it was

00:58:51   available but if I can go to WWE word to

00:59:02   use but maybe you're right maybe it is

00:59:04   the best word in in this circumstance

00:59:06   I mean WWDC like isn't that like fueled

00:59:10   by impatience like people's enthusiasm

00:59:12   to see the stuff as soon as humanly

00:59:14   possible like that's why everyone's

00:59:16   there I know there are the reasons like

00:59:18   collaboration and you know the primary

00:59:21   thing with WWDC is apples announcing all

00:59:23   of their new software changes so that

00:59:26   all of the developers who are there can

00:59:28   get their apps ready for when the

00:59:31   software is officially released like

00:59:33   there has to be a big period of time

00:59:35   between which Apple reveals here's all

00:59:37   the new things we've been working on

00:59:39   here all the changes that we've made you

00:59:42   need to adapt all of your programs to

00:59:44   work with this new paradigm like there

00:59:46   has to be at least a several month gap

00:59:49   before the time yeah before then apple

00:59:51   says here we're now putting all of these

00:59:54   changes on

00:59:55   everybody's iPhone impatience isn't the

00:59:57   correct word to describe that it's just

00:59:59   like we need

00:59:59   like we need

01:00:00   buffer period where people can adapt

01:00:03   their stuff to the new way things are

01:00:05   going to work and that is why

01:00:07   essentially everybody is at WWDC they

01:00:10   want to find out what's happening and

01:00:12   more importantly software developers can

01:00:15   actually get in touch with people at

01:00:17   Apple and ask them questions about how

01:00:19   to change their software that's why I

01:00:21   feel I always feel like really out of

01:00:23   place you're the one guy there that

01:00:25   wants to just touch an iPad before

01:00:26   everyone oh yeah exactly

01:00:27   everybody else is there for like serious

01:00:29   business work and I'm they're going to

01:00:30   let me look at the thing it's so that's

01:00:34   why I don't it feels a bit funny to go

01:00:36   but it it just so happens to have worked

01:00:39   out in the past two years that WWDC

01:00:43   combined with other things and family

01:00:47   stuff it's worked out that I can roll it

01:00:49   up into one gigantic ball of traveling

01:00:51   for the summer it happens to have worked

01:00:54   out this way but it's not the kind of

01:00:56   thing like I wouldn't fly over only for

01:00:59   WWDC most likely I need to like wrap it

01:01:01   up in a whole bunch of other stuff to do

01:01:03   because again I have no real reason to

01:01:04   be there except in patients are they

01:01:07   releasing anything that I should be

01:01:09   excited about I would say the thing that

01:01:11   you should be excited about is new iMac

01:01:13   pros yeah I did hear there is one and it

01:01:17   excites me I went to the Apple store

01:01:19   today but obviously it wasn't there

01:01:21   because I wanted to find out what it was

01:01:22   all about but it's not coming out until

01:01:24   much later in the year it's coming out

01:01:25   in December supposedly but yes this is

01:01:28   for you and I for the work that we do

01:01:30   probably the machines that we should get

01:01:32   and it's also very nice because they're

01:01:35   making it in black which is nice instead

01:01:37   of the silver co as a way to distinguish

01:01:39   like this is their professional thing

01:01:40   but yet it's coming out in a few months

01:01:43   and I don't know about you but my iMac

01:01:46   certainly could use a bit of horsepower

01:01:49   update yeah when it comes to exporting

01:01:51   videos and editing podcasts and all the

01:01:53   rest of that differently please tell me

01:01:55   it's gonna have like some ports in it

01:01:57   please they're not gonna like just have

01:01:59   like one hole in it for Apple stuff only

01:02:02   like is it gonna have like am I gonna be

01:02:04   able to plug stuff into it it's funny

01:02:05   you mention that because I'm recording

01:02:07   right now on my macbook pro which I

01:02:10   brought with me for this trip and

01:02:13   the lack of ports is just killing me

01:02:14   setting it up today it's like I have

01:02:16   four USB seaports but of course the

01:02:18   microphone that I'm using isn't USB see

01:02:19   it's USB a so I need to have an adapter

01:02:21   and it's like all of the hard drives I

01:02:23   have also need adapters and I'm sitting

01:02:25   here over the past few weeks realizing

01:02:27   like I don't have enough adapters to

01:02:29   work with this thing and even when I

01:02:32   went out and bought like a big bag full

01:02:34   of adapters there's still only four

01:02:36   ports and it's like I need to plug in

01:02:38   more than four things when I'm doing

01:02:39   professional work on the road and the

01:02:41   lack of SD card slot is just killing me

01:02:45   on this trip I just had this today I

01:02:48   went to the mech store today and I was

01:02:50   looking at the MacBook Pro and I was

01:02:52   just like I was looking for an SD slot

01:02:54   in it just then the lady from the shop

01:02:56   came up to me and said can I help you

01:02:58   and I basically this turned her and said

01:03:00   you guys are having a laugh and walked

01:03:01   off I was disenchanted I gotta say of

01:03:05   all of the things that they've done okay

01:03:08   switching to USB C ports I can get on

01:03:10   board a train that's driving to the

01:03:11   future fine right reducing the number of

01:03:14   ports I guess I can live with it but

01:03:16   cutting out the SD card slot so that you

01:03:19   can pull footage off your camera fast

01:03:22   like isn't that the definition of Pro

01:03:25   like how is this not in the laptop it

01:03:27   has killed me so many times on this trip

01:03:30   it is such a pain in the butt to not

01:03:32   have that I do know that the new Mac Pro

01:03:35   does have USB C slots and has USB a

01:03:39   slots and has thunderbolt slots I don't

01:03:42   know if it has an SD card slot or not

01:03:44   but it seems like they've reversed a

01:03:48   little bit on their decision of we will

01:03:50   just go with two beautiful USB C ports

01:03:54   because how could you possibly ever need

01:03:55   more so it does look like they're black

01:03:58   I Mac Pro will actually have a bunch of

01:04:00   slots but it kills me on this laptop

01:04:02   like I swear to God if Apple released

01:04:04   the exact same laptop and they only

01:04:05   changed one thing they added an SD card

01:04:07   like I would buy it because it's so

01:04:09   important you reminded me with this s

01:04:11   taste stuff because obviously you're

01:04:12   taking photos on your trip what

01:04:15   percentage of the photos that you take

01:04:18   have you in them have you taken any

01:04:20   photos with you in them okay I am going

01:04:24   to estimate five

01:04:26   sent of the photos I take have me in

01:04:28   them oh that's more than I would have

01:04:30   guessed there might be a real over

01:04:31   estimate but here's the thing Brady the

01:04:35   only reason that I take photographs with

01:04:37   me in them is because I know that my

01:04:39   parents and my wife vastly prefer

01:04:41   photographs that have me in them versus

01:04:44   just photographs of things which I can

01:04:46   totally understand but if for some

01:04:49   reason my family did not want

01:04:52   photographs of what I'm up to I think I

01:04:54   would have essentially 0 photographs

01:04:57   with with myself in them I go a little

01:04:59   bit back and forward on this because

01:05:00   don't get me wrong like I love taking

01:05:02   like a nice photo for the sake of just a

01:05:04   photo but part of me does think like if

01:05:07   you're not taking any pictures with you

01:05:09   in them what's the point of taking a

01:05:10   photo at all I guess like why not just

01:05:13   like buy a postcard buy a photographer

01:05:14   who would have taken a much better

01:05:16   further from the same spot I don't agree

01:05:18   with that I think there's something

01:05:19   about taking a photograph of a spot that

01:05:22   you have taken like obviously of course

01:05:24   any any notable landmark of any kind if

01:05:26   you go to there will exist better

01:05:28   photographs of that thing but I think

01:05:30   there's something kind of nice about

01:05:33   taking a photograph yourself of a place

01:05:35   even if it's not a as good of a

01:05:37   photograph as it could possibly be I

01:05:38   also think that if you go somewhere

01:05:40   significant you should like take a photo

01:05:41   of yourself there like it's kind of like

01:05:44   your flag on the moon it's just like

01:05:46   yeah I I was here you know I was there

01:05:49   when you look back at it I've liked if

01:05:50   you go somewhere really amazing and

01:05:51   don't and have no photograph of yourself

01:05:53   there I think you could regret it later

01:05:55   I'm mentally running over my last 10

01:05:57   years of taking photographs and I feel

01:05:58   like I don't really regret not having

01:05:59   photographs of me and any particular

01:06:01   places I feel like I'm totally fine with

01:06:03   a photograph of the thing but it is

01:06:06   mostly that other people are much less

01:06:08   fine with solely photographs of things

01:06:10   they want photographs of people which is

01:06:12   completely understandable in further fun

01:06:17   election news we have another election

01:06:20   that took place recently and this was

01:06:24   the Puerto Rican referendum on whether

01:06:27   or not

01:06:29   Puerto Rico should become a state of the

01:06:33   United States

01:06:34   raaah Puerto Rico has existed for a very

01:06:36   long time in this in-between land

01:06:40   as a territory and the US has this very

01:06:44   strange system of territories which was

01:06:47   obviously designed for the 1800s when

01:06:51   America was adding a whole bunch of

01:06:52   states and was not intended to be a

01:06:55   thing that would just go on forever but

01:06:58   Puerto Rico has ended up being a

01:06:59   territory for a very very long time

01:07:02   and there has been a debate for ages

01:07:06   about whether or not Puerto Rico should

01:07:07   become a state of the United States if

01:07:10   it should become an independent country

01:07:13   of its own or if it should enter into

01:07:16   what is called free association with the

01:07:19   United States which is I guess you could

01:07:22   describe it as independence light where

01:07:24   it is functionally an independent

01:07:27   country but a bit under the aegis of the

01:07:29   United States these are the options that

01:07:33   have been open to Puerto Rico and they

01:07:35   just recently had a referendum on it and

01:07:36   Puerto Rico has voted for full statehood

01:07:40   as the option that they wish to pursue

01:07:42   all right there are a few things coming

01:07:44   to mind and a few things to talk about

01:07:45   that you're going to want to talk about

01:07:47   but just to start me off here you're

01:07:50   talking as if this is entirely their

01:07:52   decision which I find hard to believe

01:07:53   like there's a there's a whole other

01:07:55   party here isn't there which is the

01:07:57   other 50 states it's not just their

01:07:59   decision is it's not like you and I

01:08:00   could decide we want to form a state of

01:08:03   the United States and vote on it and

01:08:04   then tell them right all right we're in

01:08:06   this is the beginning of even under the

01:08:10   best of circumstances what would be a

01:08:12   very long dance between Puerto Rico and

01:08:16   and the United States

01:08:17   I don't know offhand what the exact

01:08:19   procedure is but yeah it is not the case

01:08:21   that if Puerto Rico decides that it

01:08:23   wants to be a state that it is just

01:08:25   immediately accepted into the Union

01:08:27   given its status as a territory right so

01:08:30   given that is a known thing I assume

01:08:33   polling been done but I don't know

01:08:34   whether it's that this is a common

01:08:36   knowledge or not is it a well known

01:08:38   thing how the greater body of the United

01:08:41   States feels about this like do most

01:08:43   people think yeah let him in order most

01:08:45   people think no way we don't want to

01:08:47   like what's the general temperature of

01:08:49   the United States in in relation to this

01:08:51   I have never seen any polling data on it

01:08:53   I

01:08:53   would be curious but I would bet that if

01:08:56   you asked Americans about Puerto Rico

01:08:59   you would only get one of two answers

01:09:01   and it would be people who think it is a

01:09:03   separate country and people who think it

01:09:05   is already a state in the United States

01:09:07   no I would wager an enormous amount of

01:09:10   money on that that most people would not

01:09:12   be able to answer that Puerto Rico is a

01:09:14   territory of the United States right

01:09:15   most continental citizens yeah I agree

01:09:19   with part one of what you said I just

01:09:20   cannot believe part two I cannot believe

01:09:22   you could find people who think Puerto

01:09:25   Rico is one of the 50 states you always

01:09:27   have such a high opinion of people Brady

01:09:28   I find it really charming it's like I

01:09:31   know too many things about how people in

01:09:32   New Mexico have a hard time getting

01:09:34   deliveries to New Mexico in the United

01:09:36   States like I've run across too much of

01:09:38   this stuff where people just don't

01:09:41   understand what the states are I'm not

01:09:43   even confident that more than 75% of

01:09:47   adult Americans would know that there

01:09:48   are 50 states exactly I've run into

01:09:50   people who are like oh it's 52 states

01:09:52   isn't it for some reason like this seems

01:09:53   to be a number that lodges in people's

01:09:54   heads I can see where that confusion

01:09:56   comes from but yeah okay so that's why I

01:09:58   would be very willing to bet that most

01:10:00   Americans think it is already a state or

01:10:02   think it is a separate country and just

01:10:03   don't really have any opinion on this

01:10:05   matter at all but what I think is a

01:10:07   really really interesting snag in this

01:10:12   because because as we said like this is

01:10:14   going to start a dance between Puerto

01:10:15   Rico and the United States but just I

01:10:18   think there's interesting parallels with

01:10:20   this to brexit because just like the

01:10:24   brexit turnout was lower than expected

01:10:27   the voter turnout in the Puerto Rican

01:10:30   referendum was hilariously low 23% of

01:10:38   the population turned out to vote in

01:10:40   this referendum that seems to me just

01:10:43   like a real snag perhaps in this because

01:10:47   again it's like a non-binding referendum

01:10:49   but I feel like it is really hard to

01:10:52   call that a clear victory that Puerto

01:10:56   Ricans want to become an official state

01:10:59   in the United States when only 23% of

01:11:03   people turned out to vote in the actual

01:11:06   referendum

01:11:07   I mean I'm no expert on this I've only

01:11:08   read one article about the story at all

01:11:10   but in that article I did read two

01:11:13   important pieces of information that

01:11:14   feed into that though one is they have

01:11:16   voted on this before yes yeah it's not

01:11:20   the first time yeah and the second thing

01:11:22   is this particular election was unique

01:11:24   because there was this like call for a

01:11:26   boycott like there was a political

01:11:28   reason for that low turnout it wasn't

01:11:30   that people don't care and things that

01:11:32   was like the low turnout it was in

01:11:34   itself part of the the politics of it

01:11:36   that's exactly right that I didn't

01:11:37   follow the exact details of it but the

01:11:39   two other major parties and options

01:11:41   boycotted the referendum which when you

01:11:44   look at the voter turnout makes it even

01:11:46   more hilarious because 23 percent of the

01:11:48   people showed up to vote but of those 23

01:11:51   percent who showed up to vote 97 percent

01:11:53   of them voted for state it is like okay

01:11:55   this is not any kind of normal election

01:11:59   result whatsoever so I wouldn't be

01:12:03   surprised if this ends up going nowhere

01:12:07   I just don't know I don't I don't know

01:12:09   what are the interests of all of the

01:12:11   parties that are involved in this like I

01:12:13   don't know if the United States wants to

01:12:16   add an additional state like is that

01:12:18   advantageous over the situation with

01:12:20   Puerto Rico now like I'm not sure that

01:12:22   it is I just don't know

01:12:25   it's just yet another in the past year

01:12:27   of elections of like an election about a

01:12:30   very important thing and the election

01:12:32   itself the results are unexpected and

01:12:36   strange so if you were made like boss of

01:12:40   the universe tomorrow and the people of

01:12:43   the United States and the people of

01:12:44   Puerto Rico said gray we don't know what

01:12:46   to do can you just decide for us you had

01:12:48   to decide tomorrow and no one would

01:12:50   complain about your decision they just

01:12:51   said gray just to cite a forest man what

01:12:53   would you do

01:12:53   there's many complications here what I

01:12:55   was gonna say is I guess if I could snap

01:12:57   my fingers I would make Puerto Rico an

01:13:00   independent nation because in general I

01:13:02   prefer for political power to be in

01:13:05   smaller more local groups than in larger

01:13:09   blocks and yeah this would like a creat

01:13:12   more power to the level of the federal

01:13:14   government and away from Puerto Rico

01:13:16   over time which is what happens in the

01:13:17   United States but I guess the problem

01:13:19   there is there's an

01:13:20   enormous number of Puerto Ricans who

01:13:23   live and work in the United States it's

01:13:25   a perennial problem for Puerto Rico that

01:13:27   there's a bit of a brain drain of many

01:13:29   of its talented citizens saying well as

01:13:32   a Puerto Rican I can live and work in

01:13:33   the United States and so I'm moving to

01:13:35   New York or moving to San Francisco and

01:13:37   I'm not going to stay down here on this

01:13:40   island so I don't think those people

01:13:42   would be super happy so I guess I don't

01:13:45   know I guess maybe the optimal solution

01:13:47   is really for Puerto Rico to just stay

01:13:50   as a territory essentially forever

01:13:52   because they think one of the only major

01:13:55   downsides of that is is like an

01:13:57   inability to vote for presidents and I

01:14:01   think there are a few tax implications

01:14:03   but maybe for Puerto Ricans the best

01:14:05   thing to do would be to stay as a

01:14:06   territory forever to be slightly arm's

01:14:10   length from the federal government while

01:14:12   still having all of the advantages of

01:14:14   American citizenship no just thinking it

01:14:18   out loud maybe that's what it what the

01:14:19   result really should be soft brexit soft

01:14:22   territoriality I would say though that

01:14:24   if I was in charge of everything

01:14:26   tomorrow I would declare this referendum

01:14:28   just totally invalid I feel like no do

01:14:30   it again if you get 23 percent of the

01:14:32   people to show up like I'm sorry we're

01:14:34   not making any decisions based on that

01:14:35   like this is this is no indication of

01:14:37   what people actually think I've got to

01:14:39   try again with your referendum Puerto

01:14:41   Rico I mean of course this being hello

01:14:43   internet matters of sort of governance

01:14:46   and voting and immigration pale into

01:14:48   insignificance when compared to the

01:14:51   discussion that must be had about what

01:14:52   to do with the American flag if Puerto

01:14:55   Rico becomes a state I know I know this

01:14:58   is the most exciting part is it the most

01:15:01   exciting part by far it's been so long

01:15:04   since we added a star to the US flag hmm

01:15:07   and what makes it even better is 51 is

01:15:10   such a terrible number no good way to

01:15:13   arrange 51 stars so yeah this to me

01:15:17   would be the most exciting thing about

01:15:19   Puerto Rico joining the United States is

01:15:21   we would have to have some kind of

01:15:23   decision made about what our options

01:15:25   would be for 51 star flag and there's

01:15:30   some institution which has mapped out

01:15:31   possible designs for like the next ten

01:15:33   star

01:15:34   to be added which i think is a little

01:15:35   bit optimistic many states you can add

01:15:38   but this is the thing that people like

01:15:40   to think about and I'll send you a link

01:15:42   to what are some of the top options for

01:15:48   51 star flag designs ok 51 let's have a

01:15:53   look here maybe no no maybe maybe maybe

01:15:59   no no okay so be careful the link that

01:16:02   I've sent to you the first three are 51

01:16:04   star designs the rest of them are it's

01:16:07   52 there are 10 is 52 and 50 okay so

01:16:10   you're right of the 352 is I'm saying

01:16:13   yes no no so only the first one there is

01:16:16   acceptable what so basically one of them

01:16:19   kind of to the at first glance looks

01:16:21   like the current flag but a little bit

01:16:24   disjointed kind of a little bit Kindle

01:16:27   not justified but acceptable yeah if you

01:16:30   just add one more star and try to keep

01:16:32   the rows in the way that it looks right

01:16:34   now I feel like this is just a nightmare

01:16:37   of a flag it just looks wrong the rows

01:16:39   are unsymmetrical from top to bottom

01:16:41   yeah this is totally unacceptable as a

01:16:44   flag but then if you're not going to do

01:16:46   that you have to try to find a way to

01:16:48   aesthetically pleasing ly rearrange the

01:16:51   Stars well you've got one that's kind of

01:16:54   like some kind of like it kind of looks

01:16:56   like a optical illusion cube or some

01:16:59   kind of weird it's like if you took a

01:17:01   hexagon but you made the top you

01:17:03   stretched out the top and bottom so it's

01:17:05   all it's a longer gone hexagon is what

01:17:08   it is it looks like a regular hexagon

01:17:10   that someone has sat on and squashed oh

01:17:12   yeah that's good that's that's also good

01:17:14   yeah that's correct

01:17:15   yeah and that again no because that

01:17:18   leaves all this excess blue in the bit

01:17:20   in the corner I've tried to arrange them

01:17:23   in kind of are they concentric circles I

01:17:26   don't know but it just creates weird

01:17:28   shapes and apparently this is the one

01:17:30   proposed by the new Progressive Party of

01:17:33   Puerto Rico I think the new Progressive

01:17:35   Party of Puerto Rico is not listening to

01:17:37   enough hello Internet and not getting

01:17:39   their act together with legs there is a

01:17:41   a way to arrange 51 stars into roughly a

01:17:46   sphere by put

01:17:47   one star in the center and then you have

01:17:49   to be very careful about how you put all

01:17:51   the other stars around it

01:17:52   what's fierce phase three dimension of

01:17:54   it that would be an awesome plan

01:17:56   I think the reason why I said a sphere

01:18:00   is because when I look at this thing

01:18:02   full screen like if a full-screen image

01:18:04   of the 51 star circular flag there is

01:18:08   almost like it's an optical illusion

01:18:10   yeah it's like an optical illusion that

01:18:12   it it almost feels like the first star

01:18:14   is closer

01:18:16   it ends up reminding me very much of the

01:18:18   giant ball at Epcot in Disney that's

01:18:21   what it looks like it looks like they

01:18:23   are different distances apart because in

01:18:25   order to try to make it a filled in

01:18:28   circle you have to change the

01:18:30   distribution of distances between the

01:18:33   stars yeah so what I think is so

01:18:36   fascinating about the idea of Puerto

01:18:39   Rico joining is the u.s. flag who said

01:18:42   before it's not my favorite flag but all

01:18:46   of the options for what on earth can you

01:18:48   do with 51 stars I think they're all

01:18:51   terrible options they're not great if I

01:18:55   had to go with one I would actually go

01:18:57   with the sphere of stars no no gray no

01:19:00   no

01:19:01   but here's the thing here's a real

01:19:03   problem with that one that's smaller and

01:19:05   smaller sizes it looks worse and worse

01:19:07   and at larger and larger sizes you have

01:19:09   this optical illusion effect but

01:19:12   something about my desire for order

01:19:15   cannot abide by the uneven rows of the

01:19:19   51 stars like I just I can look at that

01:19:21   so I have to mark that one out and then

01:19:24   the only option is between the squashed

01:19:26   hexagons and the circle and neither of

01:19:30   them are great but if I have to pick one

01:19:32   I'm going to pick the circle over the

01:19:33   squash hexagon because at least

01:19:35   everything terrible I'm not saying the

01:19:37   circles good but at least the circle

01:19:38   evokes the Betsy Ross flag so I feel

01:19:41   like I can go along with that right you

01:19:44   can I can go along with that no you're

01:19:47   wrong okay what do you go with then

01:19:49   Brady it also the circle has like these

01:19:51   lines for me in it like your mind

01:19:53   creates these weird lines like a sort of

01:19:55   a weird person doing a star jump or

01:19:58   something and I totally see what you're

01:19:59   saying yeah and

01:20:00   that looks worse and worse at smaller

01:20:01   sizes I would go with the first one the

01:20:03   first one with your Kindle justification

01:20:06   I could live with because you said it

01:20:08   looks disordered but to me there is like

01:20:11   there is order to it there was method to

01:20:12   it but I could live with that because

01:20:15   it's most like the current flag I'll

01:20:16   tell you one thing though I think a lot

01:20:18   of people in the US would be reasonably

01:20:22   indifferent to the idea of Puerto Rico

01:20:26   becoming a state until you told them it

01:20:28   would involve changing the flag I think

01:20:30   the fact that when it will involve

01:20:32   changing the flag is the biggest barrier

01:20:34   to the people of the u.s. letting Puerto

01:20:37   Rico in you know what it hadn't crossed

01:20:39   my mind but I think you're totally right

01:20:41   you could run an anti Puerto Rico

01:20:43   campaign that simply took the squash

01:20:45   hexagon flag and said this is what

01:20:47   America will look like if Puerto Rico

01:20:49   joins right and it's like boom 97%

01:20:52   disapproval of Puerto Rico joining

01:20:54   America like I think I think that would

01:20:55   just be over it's the stars and stripe

01:20:59   of flag flag now if I had to pick a guy

01:21:06   I would go with that circle one if you

01:21:07   had to pick you would go with the uneven

01:21:09   ones I do think there is one option

01:21:11   which I would highly approve of if

01:21:14   you're going to 51 is to say look the

01:21:19   hell with this

01:21:19   the hell with all these stars let's just

01:21:23   go back to the Betsy Ross flag with the

01:21:25   13 stars I think that would be a much

01:21:28   better decision to say we're gonna stop

01:21:31   this uneven star business this was fine

01:21:34   in the 1800's when we were drawing

01:21:36   graphs of how many states we keep adding

01:21:39   every year and isn't this a fun thing to

01:21:40   do it's like but we're well beyond that

01:21:42   now it's been what 60 or 70 years since

01:21:47   the last state joined the Union I don't

01:21:48   even know it's been forever if you had

01:21:51   to choose I would be a big proponent of

01:21:52   go back to the Betsy Ross flag with just

01:21:55   the 13 stars and we'll leave it like

01:21:58   that and we won't ever have to mess with

01:22:00   this again I think that's option one hmm

01:22:03   option two is the 52 star flag looks

01:22:11   pretty good and I think at a glance you

01:22:12   could totally

01:22:14   not even notice that it's different from

01:22:16   the current US flag and so I think

01:22:19   option two is Puerto Rico can join but

01:22:22   we need to find somebody else as well

01:22:24   right we need an additional states to

01:22:26   join the union so that we can make it 52

01:22:28   stars

01:22:29   those are my courses of action you mean

01:22:31   the first 50 to starvation on this page

01:22:33   I'm looking at yeah okay

01:22:35   the first 52 star version it's still a

01:22:38   little uneven but there's something

01:22:40   about its unevenness which is less

01:22:42   bothersome than the 51 star version okay

01:22:45   right the 51 star version is just

01:22:47   terrible I'm with you I'm with you

01:22:49   okay so here's my thoughts on that first

01:22:52   up like I agree the 52 uneven looks

01:22:56   better than the 51 uneven I agree it is

01:22:59   a bit more pleasing on the eye

01:23:00   unquestionably

01:23:01   but obviously you're being bit of a

01:23:03   silly-billy and we can't like have an

01:23:05   extra state in the flag races so I'm

01:23:07   gonna rule out that joke that is not a

01:23:09   joke I am deadly serious about that like

01:23:11   if we have to annex somewhere like will

01:23:13   annex somewhere now you're just being a

01:23:15   mischief-maker watch out British

01:23:16   Columbia let's go to a situation where

01:23:18   we do have to have 51 states I think

01:23:23   that the Betsy Ross flag is a very

01:23:25   good-looking flag mm-hmm

01:23:26   I think it would be a lovely plagg to

01:23:28   have but that I think is also completely

01:23:31   untenable because of the politics and

01:23:35   the history involved with what the 13

01:23:37   stars represent so you would never be

01:23:39   able to push that through so even though

01:23:41   I have no great attachment to all that

01:23:42   history you know anyone can see that

01:23:45   that's going to be an insurmountable

01:23:46   problem yeah 100% I agree with you on

01:23:49   that one because every state is just

01:23:51   going to run the campaign of can you

01:23:54   believe they want to remove Nebraska's

01:23:56   star from the flag like that's

01:23:58   outrageous and so you're never gonna win

01:24:01   that one politically I mean clearly the

01:24:03   best solution is to have one star with

01:24:05   51 points the classic 51 pointed star I

01:24:14   wonder for 51 pointed star exist someone

01:24:17   must have done this by now I feel like I

01:24:19   need to open up Inkscape and do the

01:24:20   thing where you can dynamically generate

01:24:22   a 51 pointed star I'm sure someone's

01:24:25   done it on the flag Vicks

01:24:27   ji-sub beretta at some point I can't be

01:24:29   the first person to have thought of this

01:24:31   I don't know Brady it's so crazy it just

01:24:33   might work well then it would be code

01:24:35   the Brady Haran flag and I would be up

01:24:36   there with the Betsy Ross I just

01:24:38   generated a 51 pointed star in my

01:24:41   animation program Wow

01:24:43   you are fast my friend how can you do

01:24:45   that so quickly and put out so few

01:24:47   videos animation is not the hardest part

01:24:49   let me just quickly put it on a blue

01:24:51   background so you get the real

01:24:52   experience right can you check it on

01:24:54   with the straps as well while you're

01:24:55   there I want the first time I see it to

01:24:57   be the full experience you know what

01:24:58   actually I can do that I can do that

01:25:00   pretty quick give me two seconds see

01:25:02   this is the business we should have gray

01:25:04   I just sit here coming up with ideas and

01:25:06   then you make them a reality for me is

01:25:08   that what you want your the ideas guy

01:25:09   I'll do the implementation

01:25:11   I am the ideas guy and you're like

01:25:13   logistics and you know okay thank you

01:25:16   hope Brady I've just sent a team over

01:25:17   iMessage for people listening that gray

01:25:19   spent two hours on this oh no no you

01:25:22   haven't done it right I'm sorry how do

01:25:24   you want it the spikes need to be more

01:25:26   spiky that just looks like a circle with

01:25:28   a few spikes on it yeah I can give you a

01:25:30   more spiky version in two seconds longer

01:25:31   spikes again you're the ideas guy here

01:25:34   I'll implement your ideas until you are

01:25:36   satisfied with the spike eNOS keep that

01:25:39   as version one though gray so when they

01:25:40   write the book about us they'll be able

01:25:41   to show like the evolution of the

01:25:43   process yeah of course yeah I will do

01:25:45   that no problem at all that was version

01:25:46   1 version 2 on the way uh-hmm I can make

01:25:50   it even more spiky yeah more spiky I

01:25:52   don't want there to be a circle in the

01:25:53   middle well yeah okay we'll see it looks

01:25:55   really weird if you take out the circle

01:25:56   but I will go for maximum spike eNOS and

01:25:59   then we'll put all three there and

01:26:00   people can decide okay do you know what

01:26:02   I said that as a joke and it actually

01:26:05   looks better than I expected but anyway

01:26:08   let's see what the final versions like

01:26:09   I'm not saying it's the solution but

01:26:11   here's the problem that we're getting

01:26:12   into Brady is the number of pixels that

01:26:16   are even available to show that there

01:26:18   are 51 spokes so here is about as spikey

01:26:22   as I can make it where the spokes are

01:26:23   even still visible okay I don't want

01:26:26   excuses gray what results I'm just

01:26:28   telling you man okay yeah that's let's

01:26:30   see I see the problem you're having

01:26:31   there there's something else I can do

01:26:33   which I kind of like hold on I know how

01:26:35   it is in your head but this is just a

01:26:37   problem of 51 is so many that there

01:26:40   isn't enough space

01:26:41   to actually do it yeah I get it right

01:26:44   but it's like I have that same flag in

01:26:46   my head but it you just can't really

01:26:48   reproduce it yeah I'm gonna call this

01:26:51   one the buzzsaw version of 51 not great

01:26:54   puzzles not happening though of course

01:26:56   that looks terrible

01:26:57   I think the only one that even remotely

01:27:01   looks good is the first most chunky one

01:27:04   but then what that looks like is you've

01:27:07   stuck one of those as-seen-on-tv labels

01:27:10   on the flag I think the second one had

01:27:15   potential but yeah I know what you're

01:27:16   thinking but it it just looks really

01:27:18   weird very fast adjusting the number of

01:27:21   spikes there's just not enough space I

01:27:23   don't want to get too carried away

01:27:24   because I said it as a joke anyway about

01:27:26   it there we go we'll put them in the

01:27:27   show notes so people can take a look at

01:27:29   our brainstorming what a fifty-one star

01:27:31   flag looks like and I love that we did a

01:27:33   bit of live flag design on the podcast

01:27:35   you don't get that every day folks how

01:27:38   many other podcast here listen to you

01:27:39   where you get to listen to two guys

01:27:40   desiring a flag life or one visionary

01:27:43   suggesting flags and one like you know

01:27:45   grunt worker doing the work this week's

01:27:49   episode is brought to you in part by

01:27:50   Harry's Harry's offers high-quality

01:27:53   razors and blades for a fraction of the

01:27:55   price of the big razor brands Harry's

01:27:58   was started by two guys who wanted a

01:28:00   better product without paying an arm and

01:28:02   a leg these are high quality

01:28:04   high-performing blades crafted by

01:28:07   shaving experts giving you a better

01:28:10   shave that respects your face and your

01:28:12   wallet not only are they amazing German

01:28:15   blades but they are a fraction of the

01:28:18   price of the big brands and you don't

01:28:22   have to wait around to buy them at the

01:28:24   store for some guy to get them from

01:28:25   behind the security counter or whatever

01:28:27   no they're just delivered to your front

01:28:29   door razor blades without having to come

01:28:31   outside it's the best now if you haven't

01:28:34   tried Harry's before you should take a

01:28:35   look at their starter set it's an

01:28:38   amazing deal for 15 bucks you get a

01:28:40   razor moisturizing shave cream or gel

01:28:42   and three razor blades

01:28:45   we need more blades there are just two

01:28:47   bucks each or less they have great

01:28:49   packaging nice heavy handles and classy

01:28:52   designs with Harry's you get the

01:28:54   convenience and

01:28:55   ease of ordering online high quality

01:28:57   blades a great handle and shaving cream

01:29:00   and excellent customer service at half

01:29:02   the price of the big brands so try out

01:29:05   that starter set today you know you want

01:29:08   to just to go to harrys.com and use

01:29:11   promo code each eye to get five dollars

01:29:14   off your first purchase

01:29:16   thanks to Harry's for supporting the

01:29:19   show okay brainy I need to ask your

01:29:22   opinion on something mm-hmm let me

01:29:24   describe for you a situation that

01:29:27   occurred I'm traveling this summer and

01:29:30   I'm out on the road and I'm trying very

01:29:32   hard to at least vaguely stay healthy

01:29:37   and to not balloon up and wait while

01:29:40   you're in America which is hard to do

01:29:42   because the streets are paved with

01:29:44   donuts and hot dogs man and hot dogs how

01:29:46   much do I love hot dogs they always

01:29:48   smell good when you're walking by the

01:29:49   hot dog vendor like that seems like a

01:29:51   good idea even if it isn't a good hot

01:29:53   dog a good hot dog so I have been trying

01:29:57   to stay as low carb as possible which is

01:30:00   actually especially out in like

01:30:03   California is way easier to do than you

01:30:05   might imagine

01:30:06   like lots of places are used to this and

01:30:07   one of the easiest ways to just be able

01:30:11   to stay low carb anywhere is to just

01:30:14   order a burger and just eat the burger

01:30:17   part of it don't eat the bun so I was

01:30:19   out having lunch with a few people and I

01:30:23   ordered a burger and everybody else is

01:30:25   eating and now I'm the weirdo who's

01:30:27   taking the top off of the burger and I'm

01:30:29   using a knife and fork to start eating

01:30:32   the burger itself you are a weirdo I

01:30:34   have no time for people who order a

01:30:35   burger and don't eat the bun but anyway

01:30:36   I say why don't you see what's happening

01:30:38   here so before the story continues I

01:30:41   just need to specify something that this

01:30:43   was a breakfast burger so it was a

01:30:46   burger that had eggs on top of it and it

01:30:49   also had a kind of eggs benedict sauce

01:30:52   on top of it so it was an unusually

01:30:55   messy kind of burger okay right with

01:30:58   eggs and sauce on it it's not just like

01:31:00   um neatly lifting the burger out of the

01:31:02   bun so I'm eating the burger

01:31:04   I finished the burger do you remove the

01:31:07   bottom bun first or the

01:31:09   the bottom bun like it's the plate and

01:31:10   you're like cutting in I treated it like

01:31:12   it was the plate and I was just cutting

01:31:13   that on top of it because it would have

01:31:15   been more terrible to try to remove this

01:31:17   very messy burger from the bottom bun I

01:31:19   left the whole bottom button intact so I

01:31:21   didn't cut through it I was just cutting

01:31:23   it like it was the plate that's some

01:31:24   precise knife work

01:31:25   that's like surgical cutting through the

01:31:28   meat but stopping before you go through

01:31:29   the bun I'm impressed by your knife

01:31:31   skill I've had much practice in doing

01:31:33   this so have the picture in your head

01:31:36   I have eaten all the meat yep but

01:31:38   there's a lot of like burger juice and

01:31:41   McGuiness and sauce

01:31:43   that's in the bun and I took the top bun

01:31:45   and I put it back on top sloppy sloppy

01:31:47   bun yeah it's a it's a total sloppy

01:31:49   button as I'm sitting there and I'm done

01:31:52   with this yep the guy sitting across

01:31:57   from me takes one look at what I've done

01:31:59   yep and then he says no can I eat your

01:32:04   buns can I eat your sloppy buns yeah are

01:32:09   you trying to get this podcast pledge

01:32:11   this was one of these moments in life

01:32:13   where I feel like it like a situation is

01:32:16   so strange and unexpected that my brain

01:32:19   just doesn't like it has no previous

01:32:22   experience here and goes into like a

01:32:24   weird autopilot mode of how is it

01:32:29   appropriate to be social in moments when

01:32:31   you don't know and just err on the side

01:32:32   of nice so I think my brain just like

01:32:35   flipped into that mode because it had no

01:32:36   idea of what to do and so I said sure

01:32:39   and i slided the plate across and this

01:32:43   guy then ate my sloppy buns with a knife

01:32:45   and fork or by hand by hand he ate it by

01:32:48   hand here's the thing I'm very sorry if

01:32:51   person who you were is listening to this

01:32:52   podcast which there is a nonzero chance

01:32:54   about this like I'm very thinking I'm

01:32:57   very aware that the person who did this

01:32:59   may be listening right now and I'm sorry

01:33:03   to bring this up but here's the thing I

01:33:05   haven't been able to stop thinking about

01:33:07   this for more than a week now

01:33:10   this happened at least 10 days ago and I

01:33:13   find myself at random moments coming

01:33:16   back to this thought again and again

01:33:18   like the guy wanted to eat my sloppy

01:33:21   buns and I gave

01:33:22   them to him so here's what I keep coming

01:33:24   back to if they had been french fries if

01:33:27   I had ordered a burger and it came with

01:33:30   french fries and the guy had said can I

01:33:32   eat your french fries I would have said

01:33:34   yes of course why not yeah there's no

01:33:36   reason not to except if I was some kind

01:33:38   of really antisocial weird out like no I

01:33:41   bought these french fries I'm not gonna

01:33:42   eat them because I'm on a low-carb diet

01:33:44   I'm just gonna throw them on the ground

01:33:45   right so nobody can eat them great you

01:33:47   had no choice I understand what happened

01:33:49   you had no choice but to surrender the

01:33:52   sloppy buns because clearly you weren't

01:33:54   gonna have them and like how could you

01:33:57   say no either you had to say no and eat

01:33:59   them yourself or you had to give them up

01:34:01   the thing that you did that surprises me

01:34:03   is you didn't like confront the person

01:34:06   who out saying are you serious sloppy

01:34:09   buns that's ridiculous like you're a

01:34:10   crazy person like I can't believe you

01:34:12   didn't like call them out on it that's

01:34:14   what you should have done you should

01:34:15   have said if you're sure if you want but

01:34:17   you're crazy you seriously wanna eat my

01:34:19   sloppy buns I was just so taken aback

01:34:22   that I just did this automatic reflex

01:34:25   and then I just it can't it will not

01:34:26   leave my mind the reason why I can't

01:34:29   leave my mind is is like okay the fries

01:34:30   are unambiguous but then feels like I

01:34:34   don't know I don't know how to describe

01:34:35   it it almost feels weirdly personally

01:34:38   invasive but this person these buns like

01:34:42   it doesn't make any sense right because

01:34:44   we're not sharing them all right I'm

01:34:46   done with them it's not like he was

01:34:47   gumming them and then giving them back

01:34:49   to me and I'm going to eat them again

01:34:50   it's done they're just going in the

01:34:52   garbage but I feel like weirdly violated

01:34:56   in this situation and in a way that I

01:34:58   just I just cannot describe I think it's

01:35:00   all on him cuz I know you're pretty big

01:35:02   on like you know germs and sterility and

01:35:05   like the chain of custody of saliva and

01:35:08   right right yeah and I think you're safe

01:35:10   well clearly you're safe here you would

01:35:11   yeah that's exactly it there is no germ

01:35:14   objection that can take place in this

01:35:15   scenario it's just a bit of oh yeah but

01:35:18   the other person I think had does have

01:35:20   questions to answer in that respect but

01:35:21   they're they're probably quite

01:35:22   comfortable with it I mean the buns had

01:35:26   clearly reached a point where there had

01:35:27   been sufficiently sullied that it seems

01:35:30   strange that someone was willing to

01:35:32   touch and consume them but that's on

01:35:36   them

01:35:36   you probably wouldn't be having these

01:35:38   problems if you just discussed it at the

01:35:39   time I think you would have gotten out

01:35:41   of your chest maybe that's what it is I

01:35:44   feel like I just I didn't clarify enough

01:35:46   with the situation and my brain is

01:35:48   treating this like an open loop that it

01:35:49   just keeps coming back to you and back

01:35:51   to but the problem is I do kind of feel

01:35:53   like in the future I would say no

01:35:55   because I couldn't put my finger on it

01:35:58   but it just it feels like some kind of

01:36:01   personal violation has occurred when

01:36:03   there other people besides you two at

01:36:04   the table there were other people at the

01:36:06   table

01:36:07   what glance is being exchanged at the

01:36:08   time or did anyone speak up or like was

01:36:11   it just treated like normal or were

01:36:12   people that look at each other guy did

01:36:13   you just see that he just took that guy

01:36:15   sloppy buns so the way things happened

01:36:18   is I was so fixated on what was

01:36:19   occurring I don't know if they were

01:36:21   glances being directed around the table

01:36:23   and right it just so happens that the

01:36:25   two other people who were there I didn't

01:36:28   have a chance to revisit this topic with

01:36:30   them after the way the group broke up it

01:36:32   just it just didn't work out mmm mm-hmm

01:36:35   and so I've been discussing this with

01:36:37   like every human being that I have met

01:36:41   what's been that consensus there's

01:36:44   universal consensus that it's weird to

01:36:46   ask but that it would be wrong to say no

01:36:50   yeah that seems to be the consensus I

01:36:53   keep circling around this idea of like

01:36:56   if I'm ever in this scenario again I'm

01:36:58   gonna have to make sure to stand up for

01:37:00   myself and say no like no I will not

01:37:02   give you my sloppy second buns this is

01:37:05   an inappropriate violation of my

01:37:07   personal space in a way that french

01:37:09   fries are not what if the person says

01:37:11   why not like you're not gonna eat them

01:37:12   why do you mind meeting them it's

01:37:14   wasteful but this is it I have no good

01:37:16   answer other than well now I'm asking

01:37:18   you for an answer

01:37:19   you're in the situation I'm sorry I'm

01:37:20   challenging you on it now what are you

01:37:21   gonna say I think I've asked you you've

01:37:23   said no what's your I've said why now

01:37:25   what do you say you need to gain this

01:37:27   three men my only answer paints me as a

01:37:30   crazy person which I think I will just

01:37:31   have to bite the bullet on this one but

01:37:33   the answer will be no I paid for these

01:37:37   buns and I'm uncomfortable with the idea

01:37:39   of you eating them no you can't that's

01:37:41   unacceptable why is that unacceptable do

01:37:44   you know what you actually have the

01:37:45   acceptable answer now because of this

01:37:47   because of this catharsis that you've

01:37:49   done here

01:37:50   you can say do you know what I know I

01:37:53   should say yes but this has happened to

01:37:55   me once before and after it happened it

01:37:58   became such a difficult thing I even

01:38:00   made a whole podcast episode about it

01:38:01   which you could listen to if you like

01:38:04   but for that reason for that reason and

01:38:06   how it affected me the previous time I'm

01:38:08   gonna have to respectfully and

01:38:09   regretfully say keep your hands off my

01:38:12   sloppy pants