Top Four

Top Four 5: Podcasts


00:00:00   all right have my top 4 list and I have

00:00:02   8 items on it oh I have a shortlist of 1

00:00:05   2 3 4 17 items on my short list but I

00:00:13   only have four of my top four we're

00:00:16   gonna be talking about our favorite

00:00:17   podcasts and because many many many of

00:00:20   our friends and friends do podcasts that

00:00:25   we're going to stay positive this

00:00:27   episode and we promise not to poop on

00:00:31   anybody's parade I would like to propose

00:00:34   a slight modification and this is this

00:00:36   is kind of how top 4 always is but I

00:00:40   just want to codify it for this one in

00:00:41   particular I'd like to say these is this

00:00:44   is not our top 4 podcasts period yes I

00:00:48   would say this is our top 4 podcasts

00:00:49   right now that's I totally wanted to say

00:00:51   that too yeah because I mean and it's it

00:00:53   I think that that's a theme throughout

00:00:55   our entire show is that our top four

00:00:58   things in general our top 4 how we feel

00:01:01   right now I mean if we watch different

00:01:03   TV shows next week and we fall in love

00:01:05   with something it could totally jump the

00:01:07   list right like I mean that's how I feel

00:01:09   anyway yeah right now listening to all

00:01:12   these podcasts we are right now thinking

00:01:15   about it and our what our top four would

00:01:17   be in our current listening moods

00:01:20   exactly like for instance like one of my

00:01:22   favorites you look nice today which is a

00:01:25   long term favorite but they've basically

00:01:28   not been making new episodes for like

00:01:30   three years or something like they've

00:01:31   had one or two here and there but

00:01:32   they've basically not been making the

00:01:34   episodes for a while so I would consider

00:01:36   that extremely inactive and therefore I

00:01:39   don't listen to it much because they're

00:01:41   not making new episodes so I'm not sure

00:01:44   I can have that on my list because

00:01:45   unless you think it's so good that it

00:01:48   transcends its dormancy I guess you

00:01:51   would say because if you think it's good

00:01:53   enough to make the list even though

00:01:56   there are no new episodes as a whole

00:01:58   like as of entity it could possibly jump

00:02:02   the list into even current listen to

00:02:04   podcasts of B of being preferred maybe

00:02:08   but I don't know like to me like my

00:02:10   enjoyment of podcast is very much in the

00:02:13   moment

00:02:14   so one that doesn't have new episodes

00:02:16   for so long and and it might be dormant

00:02:20   forever you never really quite know I I

00:02:22   can't enjoy that as much so I actually

00:02:25   if I was if I had to do like best

00:02:28   podcasts ever I would probably put you

00:02:31   look nice today somewhere in the top

00:02:33   four but as of now it's I don't think

00:02:36   it's in my top four because it is not

00:02:37   active and I haven't enjoyed it for so

00:02:38   long Steve I have such great memories of

00:02:40   like listening to it at my old job

00:02:42   sitting there stitching costumes

00:02:44   listening and laughing to myself and

00:02:46   like I don't know I just and getting to

00:02:48   know the guys like when we you know

00:02:50   we're meeting them and for the first

00:02:52   time and hanging out and South by

00:02:54   Southwest and I don't know just if it

00:02:58   feels like an old friend like they are

00:03:00   you know like I can't and that's the

00:03:03   thing a lot of a lot of the podcasts we

00:03:05   listen to especially because of your

00:03:06   career a lot of the podcasts we're

00:03:09   listening to now our friends talking so

00:03:12   I guess I have a little bit of a bias

00:03:14   edge on preferring certain podcasts over

00:03:17   others because I just like hearing

00:03:19   conversations amongst our friends it

00:03:22   gets to be very frustrated that I can't

00:03:23   get involved but it it I don't know it's

00:03:27   a little bit more personal because we've

00:03:30   had conversations with these people

00:03:31   before and I want to have conversations

00:03:34   again and hearing them in our house is

00:03:36   like you get to keep up to date on

00:03:37   friends that don't live nearby and you

00:03:39   don't have to make stupid phone calls

00:03:40   because phone calls are the worst agreed

00:03:43   on that I composed a list of all the

00:03:46   podcasts that I would potentially put on

00:03:48   my list and that like iix true in joy

00:03:51   over others because we do listen to a

00:03:53   lot so super-sorry if you don't hear

00:03:55   your podcasts on this list I feel so bad

00:03:59   okay just the tip 99% invisible you look

00:04:03   nice today undisclosed Planet Money

00:04:05   serial roderick on the line hello

00:04:07   internet startup robot or not word nerds

00:04:09   cortex reconcilable differences bonanza

00:04:13   even though I've only heard one episode

00:04:15   I want to talk about that yeah I have

00:04:20   lol written in parentheses right next to

00:04:22   it yep This American Life reply all and

00:04:26   mystery show

00:04:27   a big list is a big list and none of a

00:04:30   lot of them don't even make it close to

00:04:32   the top four but for me I really enjoy

00:04:35   all of those and like I said it's not

00:04:38   even near all the podcasts I listen to

00:04:41   we listen to so many more but those are

00:04:44   the ones that I think I would want to

00:04:45   like put on in the car something when

00:04:48   listening with somebody else and be like

00:04:49   oh you would be interested in hearing

00:04:51   this show for reasons either that it's

00:04:54   exceptionally funny or it is interesting

00:04:58   and thought-provoking or it's just the

00:05:01   barrier to entry is something that's

00:05:02   really easy yeah that's fair yeah I

00:05:05   mostly agree with those kind of things I

00:05:08   ranked mine more personally like what I

00:05:10   enjoy even if you would not enjoy them

00:05:12   as you probably put more tech shows and

00:05:14   stuff on so I was hoping to leave those

00:05:16   up to you yeah so so for me I mean I'm

00:05:19   just gonna start the bottom and work my

00:05:20   way up do you have a shortlist or hire

00:05:24   losers just eight so that's pretty short

00:05:26   okay so do your whole shortlist don't

00:05:29   don't do right don't rank of just just

00:05:31   random order like put them in the bag

00:05:32   and shake them up and read them off oh

00:05:35   no they don't know I don't know too much

00:05:37   pressure all right so I'm gonna start so

00:05:39   my number eight of my top eight my

00:05:44   number eight on our top four list is you

00:05:46   look nice today cause if it was still

00:05:49   active like on a regular schedule I

00:05:52   would probably retire I probably be

00:05:53   getting more enjoyment out of it but

00:05:55   because this is my top four podcasts

00:05:56   right now I I'm not getting enough you

00:06:00   look nice today to have it go further up

00:06:02   on the list see I think it actually

00:06:04   makes my list I don't know I've been

00:06:06   flip-flopping it around I think it might

00:06:09   make my list and if it's not on the list

00:06:11   it's like hovering at number five just

00:06:13   because I really like it I feel like I

00:06:16   could listen to it again and it would

00:06:17   feel just as funny as it did the first

00:06:20   time you know it's not it's not very I

00:06:23   don't know it just it's like a little

00:06:25   comedy show so yeah I will say like when

00:06:28   I'm in my in a couple of my overcast

00:06:30   test accounts that I test the the app

00:06:33   with I always subscribe do you look nice

00:06:35   today because it is I don't mind hearing

00:06:38   them again like and I'm gonna hear

00:06:40   little bits and

00:06:41   as I test various functionality of the

00:06:43   app so I don't mind hearing them again

00:06:44   they're they're relatively short and

00:06:46   they they are a good test and a few few

00:06:51   attributes that it has like you know

00:06:52   it's because I think it's mostly mono

00:06:53   and stuff like that like so I always add

00:06:55   those so I end up hearing bits and

00:06:57   pieces of you look nice today pretty

00:06:59   often but I haven't actually sat down

00:07:01   and listened to entire episodes of it

00:07:04   for years see now you're making me

00:07:06   question if I want to have it on my list

00:07:07   taking up a spot well you don't have to

00:07:10   decide yet you can wait till we get

00:07:13   closer to the end but but yeah so so I

00:07:15   do hear it a lot and the Parts I hear

00:07:17   you're right they are evergreen and they

00:07:19   it is really funny still but I really

00:07:22   haven't gone back and listened to them

00:07:23   like at length in years and so I I don't

00:07:27   know because there's so much more to

00:07:28   listen to now right that's the problem

00:07:30   there's nothing to listen to and not

00:07:32   saying that that's why it was good it

00:07:34   was good without it would still be good

00:07:36   even if it had tons of competition but

00:07:38   now there's so much to listen to

00:07:41   thinking about going back and listening

00:07:43   to a retired podcast it just doesn't

00:07:46   seem that productive well and and it's

00:07:49   it's mostly just like it never enters

00:07:50   your mind because there is there's

00:07:52   always something there's always a new

00:07:54   episode of one of your current active

00:07:55   podcasts ready to play in your podcast

00:07:57   but I would always recommend you look

00:07:59   nice today to someone who's getting into

00:08:01   podcasts oh absolutely and for me like

00:08:03   it was for me it was one of my biggest

00:08:05   professional inspirations and influences

00:08:08   like the way I edit I try to edit the

00:08:11   way they did even though I'm probably

00:08:12   not really doing you know the to the to

00:08:14   the degree that which they did it but

00:08:16   like the way I edit and produce ATP I I

00:08:20   think I'm very heavily inspired by you

00:08:22   look nice today and I and they I mean

00:08:24   the ground they broke was incredible and

00:08:26   like when we see them do little live

00:08:28   shows here and there still today like

00:08:30   the one that they did at xoxo they still

00:08:32   got it they're still really good and and

00:08:35   I really hope to see more from them but

00:08:36   and that's live too so you don't even

00:08:38   get the benefit of editing out some of

00:08:40   the slow bits you know that you that

00:08:43   happen when you're talking to somebody

00:08:44   on a podcast and they are still very

00:08:47   good they had a whole audience laughing

00:08:48   yeah that was that was solid so anyway

00:08:51   so that's that's my number eight okay my

00:08:54   number seven

00:08:55   he's 99% invisible oh that's only number

00:08:59   seven for you it this is you know how I

00:09:01   rank things this is this is a loose

00:09:03   ranking this is like what I felt like

00:09:05   two hours ago when I wrote this ranking

00:09:06   down did you really just write this two

00:09:08   hours ago we've been talking about doing

00:09:09   this for like four weeks now at least we

00:09:12   almost did it when we did the reality

00:09:14   show yep yep

00:09:16   Marco okay anyway 99% invisible is

00:09:20   definitely in my top four yeah it's it's

00:09:23   very very good I love that show I

00:09:25   recommend it to a ton of people I think

00:09:28   it is so informative and interesting it

00:09:30   it's if for anyone who hasn't heard 99%

00:09:33   invisible you're crazy

00:09:36   but so you should go here and it's about

00:09:38   all the little things in life that are

00:09:41   basically something you wouldn't know

00:09:44   about but is very interesting little

00:09:46   fact whether it's about history it's an

00:09:48   information about a city a person

00:09:50   architecture like it's it it spans the

00:09:54   wide range of just knowledge and

00:09:57   interesting things and it focuses on one

00:10:00   small particular thing and illuminates

00:10:03   it for the audience and it's hosted by

00:10:05   Roe and Mars right mm-hm and he has a

00:10:08   fantastic voice yeah like that voice and

00:10:12   I wish you would mix with a little bit

00:10:14   less bass makes it very hard to hear in

00:10:16   the car yeah that's true it is that was

00:10:19   a good test for voice booth because I

00:10:20   have to like try to make room in Mars

00:10:22   audible in a car which is very difficult

00:10:24   and that's usually where we're listening

00:10:26   to 99% of business yeah I know that's

00:10:27   the problem and it's also a great show

00:10:29   to have on if you have you know a mixed

00:10:32   company I guess of passengers where

00:10:35   you're not gonna be worried about any

00:10:36   swear words or anything that's gonna

00:10:39   offend anybody or turning one off or be

00:10:42   a certain type of humor that someone's

00:10:43   not going to get or be too specific of a

00:10:48   topic that someone wouldn't find it into

00:10:50   roaring to most people yeah that most of

00:10:52   my shows are tech shows and like you

00:10:54   know like if I was making a list of top

00:10:56   four podcasts to play around other

00:10:58   people I think that would be possibly

00:11:02   number one if it would certainly be

00:11:03   higher up on my list the number seven

00:11:05   but because this is you know the list of

00:11:08   what I even what my

00:11:09   my favorite right now for me and most of

00:11:11   my listening I do alone then you know

00:11:14   it's not quite up there simply because

00:11:16   I'm much more into tech shows that being

00:11:18   said though like there's this whole this

00:11:21   massive category of most most podcast

00:11:24   listening I think that occurs is these

00:11:27   like but often public radio shows but

00:11:29   shows that are like kind of general

00:11:31   interests like here's a nifty

00:11:32   interesting thing and it's kind of a

00:11:34   general audience thing it's not really

00:11:36   about any one subject it's not really

00:11:38   narrowly defined to one industry it

00:11:40   doesn't go very deep into the industry

00:11:42   but it's like here's an interesting

00:11:43   story that is a very big category in

00:11:45   podcasting and for good reason but I

00:11:47   don't usually get that much into those

00:11:49   because I have so many tech shows that I

00:11:51   enjoy that are that are shows by our

00:11:53   friends that I would like I'd rather

00:11:54   hear those so I don't really get a lot

00:11:57   of those like general interest shows and

00:11:59   I see the 90 percent invisible is one of

00:12:01   those and it's one of the best ones and

00:12:03   that's why I listen to it so much

00:12:04   whereas I don't even listen to most

00:12:07   other like kind of turns out this is

00:12:10   interesting shows yeah I mean I listen

00:12:12   and I know you got me into 99% invisible

00:12:14   I listen to I really enjoy when we do

00:12:16   listen to it and like you I totally

00:12:18   listen to our friend tech shows but

00:12:20   honestly I don't get much out of it I

00:12:22   mean I get a little bit out of it I kind

00:12:24   of feel like I'm keeping up to date in

00:12:25   your world and can know what's kind of

00:12:27   going on which is slowly becoming my

00:12:29   world I guess - the programming

00:12:32   nerdiness but but yeah I just I would

00:12:37   honestly rather listen to 99% invisible

00:12:39   which we save to listen to together in

00:12:42   the car then a tech news show because I

00:12:46   just it's not that's not me so maybe

00:12:50   someday I know but don't do a lot of

00:12:52   tech I know I listen to a TV every week

00:12:56   but I'm sorry hon I can't say it's a

00:12:58   favorite I listen to it because it's my

00:13:00   John and Casey right you know and I know

00:13:03   you're gonna pick new trilogy number one

00:13:05   yes neutral is my number one oh sorry

00:13:09   didn't make up a shortlist not even in

00:13:13   the top 17 no and I mean I listened to a

00:13:15   whole bunch of video game podcasts here

00:13:17   and there but again I don't listen to

00:13:18   them consistently because I just I don't

00:13:21   have the time to focus on

00:13:23   as much as I would want to I think if

00:13:25   you know I wasn't taking care of a kid

00:13:27   all day I would listen to much more but

00:13:30   a lot of the news shows I and then once

00:13:33   I it it kind of passes me by you know

00:13:35   and I'm like well that's kind of

00:13:37   outdated I can't listen to that anymore

00:13:39   yeah the new shows have a pretty short

00:13:41   half-life like if you don't listen to a

00:13:43   new show within about two weeks of it

00:13:45   airing you're pretty much and that's a

00:13:47   lot of the videogame ones too it's like

00:13:48   all about what's coming out now what's

00:13:50   new and what's hot and you know what's

00:13:52   and so it's not something I can really

00:13:57   get into as often as I would actually

00:14:00   want to yeah that makes sense

00:14:02   speaking of techie shows all right my

00:14:06   number six right now that I feel like as

00:14:08   of two hours ago my number six is cortex

00:14:12   which is from our friends at relay FM

00:14:15   from featuring Mike curly and CGP grey

00:14:18   that's not so much of a tech show though

00:14:20   I have it on my short list

00:14:21   it is techie I wouldn't say it's a tech

00:14:24   you mentioned technology sometimes it's

00:14:27   well but it's more about like living

00:14:29   life with technology I mean but like who

00:14:31   doesn't do that yeah I mean it's it's a

00:14:34   techie show the way like a Corolla S is

00:14:38   a sporty car it's like it's not a tech

00:14:41   show it's into a Corolla

00:14:43   no I'm saying like it's not a tech show

00:14:45   it's a techie show just like it's like

00:14:47   chocolate versus chocolatey food it's

00:14:50   food items you know it's like there's a

00:14:52   difference there go ahead keep making

00:14:53   more analogies yeah this is great so

00:14:55   anyway so cortex and what I like about

00:14:59   it I'm a huge fan of both CGP grey and

00:15:01   I'm Michael Hurley and they they are

00:15:04   they're both so good and and they work

00:15:06   really well together there and it is it

00:15:08   goes into a lot of depth into techy

00:15:10   topics that that I enjoy while also

00:15:13   having you know these two people I like

00:15:16   a lot so it is also one of my favorite

00:15:18   shows I don't have it on the list

00:15:19   because I have more things on the list

00:15:20   but so I'm your top 17 no well it could

00:15:24   be in the top five okay

00:15:27   I mean I was I make sure I keep up to

00:15:28   date with that show I like that show a

00:15:30   lot also I really like CGP grey voice a

00:15:34   lot

00:15:36   cut that out of you what yeah I know I

00:15:39   think you have to live with the

00:15:40   awkwardness I'm leaving yeah anyway so

00:15:48   so my number five I love you mark my

00:15:52   number five

00:15:53   in a similar vein of people I like

00:15:57   talking about tech things although this

00:15:59   is more technical is upgrade featuring

00:16:03   Jason Snell and I Michael Hurley

00:16:05   on this really FM network yeah I see I

00:16:06   don't listen to that sorry guys

00:16:08   well it's it's really a lot more

00:16:09   technical than I like all those guys but

00:16:12   all two of them yeah yeah so upgrade

00:16:15   with Jason snow and Mike early it is

00:16:17   really good like they it just kind of

00:16:21   came out of the blue like you know

00:16:22   whenever they started I don't know a

00:16:24   year ago roughly I had no idea what to

00:16:27   think of it I thought well you know they

00:16:29   already have like shows talking about

00:16:30   Apple and we have a joking about Apple

00:16:32   you know I guess I'll listen to one more

00:16:33   and it very quickly became one of my

00:16:36   favorites it's incredibly good and it

00:16:39   like if you listen to only a very small

00:16:43   number of techie shows about Apple I

00:16:46   would definitely include upgrade in that

00:16:49   list it is incredibly smart incredibly

00:16:51   good it is really really up there I

00:16:54   probably wouldn't fall asleep to it in

00:16:56   the car Wow no no there are certain like

00:17:02   really really tech heavy shows that you

00:17:05   put on in the car when I'm like dozing

00:17:07   off and you're like up time to stop

00:17:09   listening to like you know the ones that

00:17:11   we save for each other and oh yeah

00:17:12   listening to the text shows and you turn

00:17:14   on something and it's just so dry

00:17:18   technical like they're great shows and

00:17:20   you really like them but for me it just

00:17:22   it goes too deep right developer shows

00:17:24   yeah it go they go too deep and that's

00:17:26   all I'm saying is that that's why I doze

00:17:28   off because the topic just doesn't grab

00:17:31   me as a non programming person oh yeah

00:17:34   yeah like I I will save actual

00:17:37   programming shows like core intuition

00:17:38   and release notes I'll save those for

00:17:40   when you are not with me or asleep and I

00:17:43   know that you know you are not developer

00:17:45   and they will be a lot less interesting

00:17:47   to you although freakishly that's how

00:17:49   you got me into

00:17:50   whole bunch of shows where you started

00:17:52   listening to them because you thought I

00:17:54   was dozing off and it stopped me from

00:17:55   dozing off and I started listening yeah

00:17:57   that's how you got into hypercritical

00:17:58   yep yep I did get into hypercritical

00:18:01   that way and I really really want to

00:18:02   have enough time to go through and

00:18:04   listen to all those again but again it's

00:18:05   one of those podcasts that are it's not

00:18:08   making new ones so I'm less inclined to

00:18:11   catch up yeah you know because I know

00:18:13   it's gonna be there and it's not gaining

00:18:16   on me that I need to feel like I need to

00:18:18   get ahead of it you know what I did you

00:18:21   understand so if there's a current

00:18:23   podcast that I really like that I hadn't

00:18:25   heard all the episodes to which we I'm

00:18:28   sure will come up and talk about because

00:18:30   it's on my list I want to listen to that

00:18:33   first before going back to the dormant

00:18:35   shows yeah yeah I agree but I mean

00:18:38   hypercritical if you're gonna go back

00:18:39   and listen that is one that has

00:18:41   substantial value gamecontroller episode

00:18:44   no good there are so many that were so

00:18:47   good I mean almost every episode I would

00:18:49   say is worth hearing again but again it

00:18:53   is on my list because it's not an active

00:18:55   podcast like of mine you know and it's

00:18:58   not you know I really like John like I

00:19:00   like him as a person that we know and a

00:19:04   lot of times that brings me closer to a

00:19:06   podcast that I wouldn't normally

00:19:08   attached to as as quickly but I mean

00:19:11   John's just amazing beyond cast though

00:19:14   yeah I mean that's that's one of the

00:19:16   reasons why hypercritical worked so well

00:19:18   is because John is just so interesting

00:19:21   and and so likable like it's and he's

00:19:25   he's so unlike you know most people if

00:19:29   you put those people in that role it

00:19:30   wouldn't have been nearly as interesting

00:19:31   but he articulates things so well and

00:19:34   identifies so much about what makes

00:19:37   something good or bad and can express it

00:19:38   so well that he really is a completely

00:19:43   different class than most people in

00:19:44   doing those things ever reference he's

00:19:46   exactly like that in real life like

00:19:47   exact you know you should I heard him

00:19:50   critiquing his birthday cake one year

00:19:52   that was amazing except he melts when

00:19:56   you give them a baby or a dog yes all

00:20:00   right so my my number four riser right

00:20:03   now as

00:20:04   two hours ago whenever this list is the

00:20:07   talk show with John Gruber excellent

00:20:09   choice yeah I I think you know again

00:20:11   it's among the tech shows that I listen

00:20:14   to it is really really up there in fact

00:20:19   it is I think it's the highest ranked

00:20:21   show on my list that I consider like a

00:20:24   tech show really I I really liked when

00:20:27   they did the well back when it was on

00:20:29   five by five when they did the bond

00:20:32   series I was very into it then that was

00:20:35   great yeah it was really great we

00:20:36   definitely we watched along with it and

00:20:38   that was really fun but nowadays I catch

00:20:42   it here and there when you're playing it

00:20:43   in the kitchen but uh I I don't listen

00:20:47   to it as much sorry John but I have

00:20:49   another group or a podcast on my list

00:20:51   that's very close in the top four I'm

00:20:55   not sure if it's in the top four it

00:20:56   might be number five it's not but my my

00:20:59   ranking is just bobbing around all over

00:21:01   the place right now but just the tip Amy

00:21:04   Jane very good Paul Cabasa yeah it's a

00:21:07   very good show yes I hear they're

00:21:09   starting a new season soon excellent you

00:21:11   know it's mostly about their totally

00:21:14   strange happenings in their life which

00:21:17   are I can't believe these things happen

00:21:19   to people and we know that they do

00:21:20   because we've been there when it happens

00:21:22   sometimes and it's they're just too

00:21:26   outrageous funny personable people that

00:21:31   you just kind of want to listen to crazy

00:21:33   things they get into what makes the tip

00:21:36   good is that the they're there they're

00:21:38   both individually really funny mm-hmm

00:21:41   and they're funny together and they're

00:21:43   friends and you can tell their friends

00:21:45   you can tell they know each other very

00:21:46   well and they you can tell they like

00:21:48   hanging around biessing and being funny

00:21:49   together a lot and and that that

00:21:52   chemistry really comes through and it is

00:21:54   just really funny and it yeah that's

00:21:57   like they can they can nitpick

00:21:59   the littlest tiniest things almost like

00:22:01   in like a Seinfeld II kind of way but

00:22:03   more like more modern and funnier like

00:22:05   it like the way they like the ridiculous

00:22:07   situations that happen to them and the

00:22:09   way they relate that later on or like

00:22:13   you know the way they interpret it at

00:22:14   the time is just always like a certain

00:22:16   lens of just like

00:22:18   critical dry funniness perfect yep

00:22:22   exactly I really enjoy the show and it's

00:22:25   a quick show - yeah exactly them what

00:22:27   like a half-hour

00:22:28   yeah and they and they don't make

00:22:29   episodes every week they do like these

00:22:31   like seasonal batches so they'll do like

00:22:33   you know ten a year or something so it's

00:22:35   it's it's pretty easy to get into pretty

00:22:37   easy to listen to not a big like time

00:22:39   cost and and very they're very dense

00:22:41   episodes yeah I like that a lot

00:22:44   it depends on see that's it depends on

00:22:48   where you look nice today falls based on

00:22:51   where just the tip Falls interested s if

00:22:54   she said well alright my number three is

00:23:00   again right now as I feel like it two

00:23:03   hours ago is Roderick on the line

00:23:06   awesome yeah I so I've been listening to

00:23:10   Roderick on the line since the beginning

00:23:12   it has been for most of its life that

00:23:14   has been my shower podcast where I we

00:23:17   have a big Bluetooth speaker on a shelf

00:23:18   next to the shower so I can blast

00:23:20   podcast and hear them clearly in the

00:23:21   shower my shower podcast is ATP and

00:23:24   analog nice good choices sorry dudes if

00:23:28   that makes this awkward well so like I

00:23:32   love rock on the line it is it so it's

00:23:34   it's John Roderick and Merlin Mann just

00:23:37   talking basically and and what initially

00:23:40   got me hooked is that it puts Merlin in

00:23:43   the host role which on almost every

00:23:45   other show Merlin does he's not in that

00:23:48   host role and it turns out he's really

00:23:51   good at it and it's interesting to hear

00:23:53   that other side of him you know and and

00:23:55   so that got me and then of course John

00:23:57   Roderick is like kind of what's but seal

00:23:59   the deal and kept me there and kept me

00:24:01   interested for so long because he is

00:24:03   John Roderick is just this infinite

00:24:06   depth of interesting insights

00:24:09   interesting stories and and just like a

00:24:13   time capsule I don't know like I feel

00:24:18   like if you just dug around in the dirt

00:24:21   you found like a little plaque you know

00:24:23   that used to be quite shiny and amazing

00:24:26   and like you dusted it off and it

00:24:27   actually is now more amazing of a plaque

00:24:29   and you

00:24:30   pull it out on the ground and it's this

00:24:32   like weathered amazing stunning

00:24:36   container of a life and you open it up

00:24:40   and it just has these and these little

00:24:43   objects and trinkets and I don't know it

00:24:47   just that's what he feels like and

00:24:48   Merlin is just opening up this time

00:24:50   capsule of Roderick and he's telling

00:24:52   about his life and things that have

00:24:54   happened to him and it's like I can't

00:24:55   even believe that this is one person but

00:24:59   this is all we have so many videos of

00:25:04   Adam as an infant with Roderick on the

00:25:06   line playing in the background of the

00:25:08   videos right because I was like taking a

00:25:10   shower or something yeah and I was

00:25:11   hanging out you know like doing the

00:25:13   nursing business and and our Adams room

00:25:16   is right across from the bathroom

00:25:17   so yeah Adam has also heard a lot of

00:25:19   John Roderick yeah the one I remember

00:25:23   most is when they're talking about

00:25:24   stress bumps which is really awkward

00:25:26   because we're taking a video of our

00:25:27   little baby and they're talking about

00:25:29   like stress bumps on people yeah awkward

00:25:35   but yeah that's a cute video thank you

00:25:39   and you know that that's another show

00:25:41   where John and Merlin have known each

00:25:44   other for a long time and you can tell

00:25:46   and it comes through and they play off

00:25:48   each other very well

00:25:49   Merlin like you know John if you let

00:25:51   John talk he'll go on forever Merlin

00:25:53   knows like how like how to lead the

00:25:55   conversation how to bracket it where to

00:25:59   jump in where not to jump in he's very

00:26:02   very good at that yeah they did the

00:26:04   dynamic between them is just amazing and

00:26:06   it makes the podcast really great yeah

00:26:08   and and so in you know to have to have

00:26:10   that amount of depth and storytelling

00:26:12   and and just like deep references in in

00:26:16   a relatively short show it's pretty

00:26:19   impressive like the show is usually

00:26:20   around an hour see that's where I

00:26:23   disagree with you it is not a short show

00:26:25   that's why I can't keep up it's too long

00:26:27   I guess you fell behind right I fell

00:26:29   behind at one point and now I'm my my

00:26:33   debt of Roderick on the line is so great

00:26:36   like I catch it when you're in the

00:26:38   shower and you tell me when there's like

00:26:40   a particular episode that I really need

00:26:42   to listen to and I do

00:26:44   and I love every time I listen to it but

00:26:46   I just can't keep up which is really sad

00:26:50   because I want to keep up yeah you know

00:26:52   that's the reality of podcasts like

00:26:54   there's always gonna be a lot of great

00:26:56   podcasts out there and you don't always

00:26:57   gonna have time for all of them you know

00:26:59   and that that's why I like you know you

00:27:01   gotta you gotta pick and choose like I

00:27:02   as I said earlier like I don't really

00:27:03   listen to most of the popular public

00:27:05   radio shows because I just I would

00:27:09   rather hear these other things by my

00:27:11   friends and by tech people and stuff

00:27:12   like there's very few of those

00:27:14   mass-market shows that I actually want

00:27:16   to listen to over the other things that

00:27:17   I like yeah yeah I can't let's do this

00:27:21   American life anymore I mean I love it

00:27:22   and I want to listen to it but it just

00:27:24   it ends up not making the cut yeah I

00:27:27   mean I haven't listened to this American

00:27:28   life in years you know like we used to

00:27:31   listen to that in the car a lot but now

00:27:32   we've have other things that we like

00:27:33   better that are you know more specific

00:27:35   to us or by our friends or whatever

00:27:36   mm-hmm and I don't I don't have a bad

00:27:39   thing I mean podcasting like this is one

00:27:41   of the strengths of podcasting is that

00:27:43   you have this wonderful specialization

00:27:45   and if you want to hear podcasts about

00:27:48   you know to pen enthusiasts discussing

00:27:51   pens I just listen to it yeah and I was

00:27:56   super excited they were talking about

00:27:57   adult coloring because I totally have an

00:28:00   adult coloring book that I have because

00:28:02   I'm sick of coloring and Adams dumb

00:28:04   coloring books Wow I just need a little

00:28:09   more challenge anyway it is pretty great

00:28:14   but again and you know so I what are the

00:28:17   the podcasts I keep up with like

00:28:19   regularly oh I don't want to list it yet

00:28:22   because it might give away my number one

00:28:23   okay almost done all right my number two

00:28:27   right now as of two hours ago

00:28:29   my number two podcast is reconcilable

00:28:32   differences oh that's my cooking podcast

00:28:35   uh yeah that's a great

00:28:37   I always listen to that one when I'm

00:28:39   cooking so it's a little bit too dense

00:28:41   for me like that's that's one where so

00:28:43   this very little differences it's

00:28:45   another show here in relay FM and it is

00:28:47   it features John siracusa and Merlin

00:28:51   Mann and so what I like about this shows

00:28:54   are first of all John and Merlin are Bo

00:28:57   as we know we've talked to them already

00:28:58   so far they're both incredibly good

00:29:00   podcasters they're both incredibly

00:29:02   interesting and one thing I like about

00:29:05   it is that they're both in their 40s and

00:29:08   I'm 33 and they're both also very smart

00:29:12   and very wise even for their age like it

00:29:15   isn't they're not just Martin wise

00:29:16   because they're in their 40s they're

00:29:18   smart and wise in general and they

00:29:19   happen to have you know 10 to 15

00:29:22   whatever you know more years of life

00:29:25   experience than I do and so I listen to

00:29:29   that show that's a very dense show and

00:29:31   like I don't listen to a ball cooking

00:29:33   because I need to pay closer attention

00:29:35   to it see that's when I have a chance to

00:29:37   actually pay attention to a podcast is

00:29:39   when I'm cooking and you're keeping Adam

00:29:40   away from me like I can actually be in

00:29:42   the kitchen by myself just sauteing some

00:29:44   vegetables listening to John him early

00:29:47   he's very easy for you like compared

00:29:49   like you I have to put a lot more

00:29:51   thought into it because I mess up too

00:29:52   much if I don't but you know you were

00:29:53   much better than that cooking that I am

00:29:55   yeah I don't really focus that much on

00:29:56   right you don't mean to so anyway so I I

00:29:59   enjoy the show because you know it's

00:30:00   it's these two guys who I respect a lot

00:30:02   and and they they have never as far as I

00:30:05   know they've never regularly done

00:30:06   another podcast together like I've heard

00:30:08   both of them separately on lots of

00:30:10   things but I've never heard the man

00:30:12   incomparable episodes together well yeah

00:30:15   one or two here and there but not like

00:30:16   on a regular basis and in there those

00:30:18   are big episodes with a lot of other

00:30:19   people to use though right and you know

00:30:21   and both that you know John and Merlyn

00:30:23   have so much to say that you know they

00:30:25   there's not room for anyone else you

00:30:27   know on that show and to get a

00:30:28   meaningful amount of them at the same

00:30:29   time certainly so I like the show and

00:30:31   and it is so it is the you know these

00:30:34   two friends of mine who are great on

00:30:35   podcast together who are also incredibly

00:30:38   wise and it's them talking about their

00:30:42   lives and their philosophies about life

00:30:44   and their experiences in life so it's

00:30:46   it's a amazing combination of like very

00:30:50   high value content for me like very high

00:30:53   very dense very it's it's full of wisdom

00:30:56   and philosophy

00:30:59   from from these guys who who I you know

00:31:02   I I I stand to gain a lot from their

00:31:07   wisdom I think like there's a lot that

00:31:09   they have learned in life that I haven't

00:31:11   learned

00:31:11   yet and or that or things they do or

00:31:14   ways they look at things that I would

00:31:15   like to be better at that I would like

00:31:17   to pick up or even the way they've

00:31:18   analyzed their own pass to yeah when

00:31:20   they bring that up I think that that's a

00:31:22   very self-aware and it's really I don't

00:31:26   know it's just it makes you think it

00:31:31   makes you think about yourself and the

00:31:32   way you perceive things and I just and

00:31:35   their banter is really good together and

00:31:36   they lead each other really well and

00:31:39   exactly and that's this that's the show

00:31:41   that I rewind the most of all shows like

00:31:45   if I'm you know walking walking hops or

00:31:49   doing something else if I like kind of

00:31:51   zone out for a second or don't pay

00:31:52   attention for a second because it like

00:31:54   something happens you know what I'm

00:31:55   walking I got I pay attention to across

00:31:57   the street or whatever like I will

00:31:59   rewind to here again what I just didn't

00:32:01   pay much attention to I also don't mind

00:32:03   if I'm playing it you're like no no keep

00:32:05   it on I'll hear this part again yeah I

00:32:07   can re listen to it because again it is

00:32:08   so dense oftentimes I will I will get

00:32:11   more value out of listen to it a second

00:32:13   time and so that that one I'm I'm very

00:32:15   happy they're continuing to do it now

00:32:16   and and it is really really up there for

00:32:20   me alright so what's next you that was

00:32:23   your number two where's the number two

00:32:25   oh wait then you're missing one that I

00:32:28   thought we were going to be talking

00:32:29   about a lot okay keep going good well my

00:32:33   number one hello Internet that's my

00:32:36   number one really it's not just because

00:32:39   you like crazy voice a little bit no

00:32:43   it's more than that I can go beyond my

00:32:47   yeah anyway so I feel so awkward right

00:32:52   now what you want me to save you save me

00:32:56   okay so the reason so hello Internet is

00:32:58   my number one right now and and it's

00:33:00   been it's been my number one for a

00:33:01   little while and what I like about hello

00:33:04   Internet

00:33:04   is that so this is CGP grey and Brady

00:33:07   Haran to people who are mostly known I

00:33:10   believe for their YouTube stuff although

00:33:12   they're kind of taking the podcast world

00:33:14   by storm here because hello Internet is

00:33:15   is more popular than almost every show

00:33:18   I've talked about here and and it is as

00:33:23   they describe it it

00:33:25   is the two dudes talking podcast format

00:33:27   books many of you show yeah actually all

00:33:29   of your like top ones talking yeah I

00:33:32   know dudes talking can you what can I

00:33:35   say I like what you like yeah so but you

00:33:39   got me into this we were listening I

00:33:40   remember the first episode that I got

00:33:42   into it with was the flags they were

00:33:45   talking about flag design and I'm like

00:33:47   what the hell is this these do people

00:33:50   just talking on and on and on about

00:33:52   flags I was like really I think you

00:33:54   might have put it on because you thought

00:33:55   I was falling asleep and I and I ended

00:34:00   up really really liking it and it wasn't

00:34:03   until a couple months later that I got

00:34:05   into it even more and yeah it's just the

00:34:08   two of them have such a great chemistry

00:34:10   together I love it's when they describe

00:34:14   themselves it's you know the robot in

00:34:15   the caveman which i think is pretty

00:34:17   extreme but it's it's pretty funny

00:34:20   because they just you know one is one

00:34:24   way ones the other way and the way they

00:34:26   talk to each other and they play off

00:34:28   each other it's it's just fantastic it's

00:34:32   fantastic if you have I don't even know

00:34:34   how to describe how great it is yeah you

00:34:35   could get keep going no I mean that's

00:34:37   that's exactly how I feel about it it's

00:34:39   it is the two dudes talking format and

00:34:42   it is talking you know occasionally

00:34:44   about tech but you know kind of also

00:34:46   about YouTube also about life you know

00:34:47   also about ships and it's just about

00:34:50   whatever sit in which is what yeah great

00:34:52   and I love when Brady derails everything

00:34:55   and gray I could just hear him rolling

00:34:58   his eyes and shaking his head and it's

00:35:00   just so funny it's so funny with Brady

00:35:03   and all of his corners now it's and it

00:35:06   just it seems to have escalated so I

00:35:07   went back I just started listening to

00:35:09   the first few episodes just this past

00:35:11   weekend and it's amazing how they stand

00:35:15   up they don't it doesn't feel like it

00:35:17   was a podcast that grew into itself

00:35:19   because it was so good right from the

00:35:21   first episode I I thought I was gonna go

00:35:24   back and feel like oh this is gonna feel

00:35:25   really kind of like green and then they

00:35:29   were going to evolve into the podcast

00:35:32   that they are today and they did a

00:35:33   little bit of that you know it's

00:35:34   definitely expanded and it started off

00:35:36   it was supposed to just be 10 episodes

00:35:38   and it expanded and it just it was so

00:35:41   good from the beginning there was even

00:35:43   this crazy episode I was just telling

00:35:44   mark about um about ad blockers that was

00:35:50   so crazy relevant to what was happening

00:35:53   like two weeks ago so but that was put

00:35:56   out over a year ago and what they go

00:35:59   back and listen to it again you have to

00:36:00   because it was like they were ice you

00:36:04   would have guessed that they recorded

00:36:05   that after the whole hoopla debacle yeah

00:36:08   I mean like what I like about it is like

00:36:10   they these two characters and you know I

00:36:13   believe they're genuine I don't feel

00:36:14   like playing characters like these these

00:36:16   two people are amazing character there's

00:36:18   no way you can make up all the crazy

00:36:20   stuff that they talk about and have that

00:36:22   there's the depth to both of them that

00:36:25   they've revealed in the show and their

00:36:27   own I guess neuroses about things and

00:36:30   the way they look at life you know one

00:36:32   is he says he's not a minimalist but

00:36:35   whatever gray one's a minimalist one

00:36:38   loves collecting trinkets and things and

00:36:40   having a house full of old stuff and

00:36:42   looking at thing and it's just the the

00:36:45   way they're so different but yet they

00:36:47   come together and they're so similar

00:36:48   right and Lee and you know this is like

00:36:50   you know that that is not an original

00:36:51   formula of like these two different

00:36:54   people kind of yeah I mean yeah

00:36:56   obviously this has been done before in

00:36:58   media but this is a really really good

00:37:01   and totally organic version of that and

00:37:03   like they really they know how to push

00:37:05   each other's buttons so well too and and

00:37:08   they're also yeah and they're also

00:37:11   friends and you can tell and and so you

00:37:13   know it just comes together to be not an

00:37:16   original format but an incredibly

00:37:20   incredibly good implementation of that

00:37:23   of those pieces that have been done

00:37:25   before you know but these two people who

00:37:29   I they're just so perfect to do this

00:37:33   together you know and it just it comes

00:37:35   together so well that you can listen to

00:37:37   them talk about anything and we do he

00:37:41   wasn't talking about anything and it's

00:37:42   good new episodes of hello hello

00:37:44   internet are definitely my don't disturb

00:37:48   while listening to podcasts like I will

00:37:50   rewind and hear stuff

00:37:51   I don't want to miss a second of it

00:37:53   because I like it so much

00:37:55   yeah I'm the same way like I don't I

00:37:57   won't zone out during that one I'll save

00:37:59   it for like times and I can listen more

00:38:01   you know and not miss things every once

00:38:03   in a while we can listen together and

00:38:05   that's pretty fun yeah yeah that's good

00:38:07   but it's not often we would get so

00:38:09   backlogged if we had to wait to listen

00:38:11   together yeah yeah all right that's my

00:38:15   my top four my top eight actually so

00:38:17   well okay let's go to you yeah so hello

00:38:20   internets my first one number one there

00:38:22   was no doubt about that number two three

00:38:26   and four I'm waffling Oh waffling so

00:38:29   yeah I have okay so my two three and

00:38:33   four and I guess number five because

00:38:36   they're all I'm wobbling okay I have you

00:38:41   look nice today undisclosed 99%

00:38:44   invisible and just the tip as my top

00:38:46   ones under hello Internet and I feel

00:38:50   like any of them could go anywhere

00:38:51   because depending on the episode except

00:38:54   for you look nice today which is retired

00:38:56   which is why it's kind of like

00:38:57   flip-flopping in between spots here for

00:38:59   me and also just the tip doesn't come

00:39:01   out very often so that one's also hard

00:39:04   to pin down I guess in which number I

00:39:07   would prefer it at but undisclosed is a

00:39:11   podcast that we need to talk about yeah

00:39:13   definitely

00:39:14   so undisclosed is a podcast that started

00:39:17   after serial and if you haven't heard of

00:39:20   Syria living under a rock you at least

00:39:23   have to have heard of it but we only

00:39:26   listen to it a couple months ago we

00:39:28   started listening yeah we listen to it

00:39:29   after it ended right and I because I was

00:39:31   kind of on a podcasting low right at a

00:39:34   certain I'm like you know I'm gonna

00:39:35   listen to serial I have some time so I

00:39:38   started listening and about like two

00:39:40   episodes in I stopped and I said Marco

00:39:43   we have to listen to this together

00:39:44   because you would be really really into

00:39:46   it and he was all new and so I

00:39:48   eventually got him to listen to it and

00:39:50   he got into it you got into it right oh

00:39:51   I was hooked immediately yeah you were

00:39:53   totally hooked and because I would stop

00:39:56   and I would listen to the first few

00:39:58   episodes and the first episode like oh

00:39:59   my gosh this happened and I would

00:40:00   explain the whole thing and tell him all

00:40:02   this stuff that this crazy thing was

00:40:04   happening to this poor guy

00:40:06   we were and then the next episode would

00:40:08   happen I would spend all this time

00:40:09   talking to him about what happened on

00:40:11   cereal and so he's like finally I'm like

00:40:13   you have to just listen to it because

00:40:15   you're listening to me tell you all

00:40:16   about it and we got very very into it we

00:40:20   debated back and forth whether he was

00:40:21   guilty or innocent and I think you were

00:40:25   much more on the I don't know side and I

00:40:29   was more on the innocent side yeah at

00:40:31   the end of cereal of cereal at the end

00:40:33   of cereal I thought he I was in the

00:40:38   middle I was like he prob I was leaning

00:40:39   towards he probably was guilty but that

00:40:43   they definitely should not have

00:40:44   convicted him based on the case and

00:40:46   evidence that were presented mm-hmm so

00:40:49   next so after a cereal ended it left a

00:40:53   lot of questions open because the style

00:40:56   of podcasts that it was it was it's kind

00:40:58   of like a storytelling podcast it was

00:41:00   its NPR right it's public radio I don't

00:41:03   think it's actually a VMP organization

00:41:05   but if any of you so it was more of like

00:41:07   the storytelling format and it was very

00:41:08   edited and they told a great story but

00:41:12   it wasn't technically perfect and so a

00:41:15   new podcast came up after cereal called

00:41:18   undisclosed and undisclosed is run by

00:41:22   three lawyers one of which knows Adnan

00:41:27   personally and two others who are

00:41:32   interested in the case and started

00:41:33   blogging about it and talking about it

00:41:35   through sere because of serial

00:41:38   there are various law professors or

00:41:40   parts of different projects that help I

00:41:45   don't know that that helped people rifle

00:41:49   convictions and and yes everything make

00:41:51   sure people get to get you know adequate

00:41:53   defenses stuff like that yeah if you

00:41:55   want to look up their names we could say

00:41:56   I don't know but so we started listening

00:41:59   to this and it's a very technical

00:42:00   podcast what it has done is it goes into

00:42:03   depth every single episode

00:42:05   it focuses on one little tiny part of

00:42:08   the case and just picks it apart and

00:42:11   blows it totally open and explains

00:42:14   everything so if you're ever if you're

00:42:16   at all interested in

00:42:18   criminal justice in law in forensics in

00:42:22   anything to do with crime solving and

00:42:26   and the actual intricacies of it that

00:42:29   pertain to real life and not fiction

00:42:32   this is a fantastic podcast for you and

00:42:35   I think that that's what we really like

00:42:37   it's very deep into the law aspect of it

00:42:40   it's very deep into how the workings of

00:42:42   the police department were it just it's

00:42:45   so fascinating how detailed they get and

00:42:48   how well produced it is in addition to

00:42:51   that it's not just a whole bunch of

00:42:52   lawyers talking it has music it has

00:42:55   transitions and it's it's really just

00:42:58   beautifully beautifully done and it's

00:43:00   super super fascinating and all of the

00:43:02   proceeds I believe two of the podcasts

00:43:05   go to help

00:43:06   Adnan's case so the majority of the

00:43:09   they're all on side of Adnan innocent

00:43:12   and wanting to or not at least innocent

00:43:14   but at least saying that he was not

00:43:17   given a fair trial that he should not

00:43:21   have been convicted thank you convicted

00:43:26   based on the evidence that that was

00:43:28   available at the time and it just goes

00:43:30   it just adds layer upon layer upon layer

00:43:33   of frustration of you're like how could

00:43:35   this actually have happened in our

00:43:37   criminal justice system and it blows

00:43:39   open that it happens all the time and

00:43:42   it's just so interesting and frustrating

00:43:44   I think of it it's a lot like who we

00:43:46   really like the wire which we talked

00:43:48   about on a previous show and this takes

00:43:50   place like in Baltimore right yeah in

00:43:54   Baltimore yeah it's late night like in

00:43:56   1999 like the same time period like the

00:43:58   same type of cops the same kind of

00:44:00   Police Department and you're talking

00:44:02   about them or you're talking about you

00:44:03   know it it just it it goes into these

00:44:07   details that you can't help but draw

00:44:09   parallels with the wire but this is real

00:44:11   life and it it's just it's scary it's

00:44:16   scary but it's fascinating and it's it

00:44:20   makes you feel like you're learning

00:44:21   something about the world that you need

00:44:24   to know

00:44:25   yeah and it's it is you know like as you

00:44:28   mentioned like it is very well produced

00:44:29   it is not just like

00:44:32   you know a lot of times if you have like

00:44:33   subject matter experts talking about a

00:44:36   subject from a podcast a lot of times

00:44:38   those are like recorded like on

00:44:39   somebody's speakerphone you can barely

00:44:40   hear it's all echoey and or like podcast

00:44:42   about people like people who do podcast

00:44:44   about like oh let's talk about Project

00:44:45   Runway you know what I mean fans of

00:44:48   something creating a podcast which is

00:44:50   what this kind of started out as but

00:44:52   it's so much more serious than that yeah

00:44:55   like the production values are just as

00:44:57   good as any like popular popular public

00:44:59   radio style show and the content as you

00:45:02   said like it is so good it is so

00:45:04   interesting and their professions and

00:45:07   they're talking to experts and they're

00:45:09   uncovering things and they know how to

00:45:11   read through the paperwork and they know

00:45:12   how to get hold of this paperwork and

00:45:14   because they all are lawyers with

00:45:16   degrees and access to all this kind of

00:45:18   stuff they're not just investigative

00:45:20   reporters right but they but at the same

00:45:23   time even though they are all lawyers

00:45:25   that that that are going into all those

00:45:27   technical jargon they also explain it

00:45:30   and so you don't have them accessible

00:45:32   yeah like we aren't lawyers we wouldn't

00:45:34   know what half this stuff was but they

00:45:35   explain it and so like if you are at all

00:45:38   interested if you were all interested in

00:45:40   serial and you haven't heard undisclosed

00:45:42   you have to listen to undisclosed it is

00:45:44   like because first of all you know what

00:45:47   they uncover it goes way beyond what

00:45:49   serial could have done you know just as

00:45:50   like a brief term done by a journalist

00:45:53   like these are experts in wrongful

00:45:55   convictions and evidence problems and

00:45:58   everything and so they actually went

00:46:00   through and found a lot of new stuff and

00:46:02   you know my opinion of the non science

00:46:05   guilt went from he probably did it but

00:46:08   shouldn't have been convicted to he

00:46:10   almost certainly didn't do it like the

00:46:13   the now like what they have uncovered it

00:46:15   makes it such that it would have been

00:46:17   almost impossible for him to do it and

00:46:20   there's all this evidence of so many

00:46:24   other problems and so many other

00:46:26   plausible theories of what happened that

00:46:28   are actually supported by evidence and

00:46:29   it's really I mean it's what happened

00:46:32   here was I mean you know we can't say

00:46:35   definitely but what happened here was mo

00:46:38   most probably severe injustice and

00:46:42   wrongful conviction yeah after the guys

00:46:44   in the prison for 15

00:46:46   now but it's a type of it's a type of

00:46:47   podcast that we keep pausing it and

00:46:49   being like oh my gosh did you just hear

00:46:53   that can you believe that let's target

00:46:54   like you that it's the type of podcast

00:46:55   that you pause and you talk about it

00:46:57   with whoever you're listening to and if

00:46:59   you're not listening to it with somebody

00:47:00   you have to pause it and be like oh my

00:47:03   gosh that just has like even if you're

00:47:04   by yourself you need a minute it would

00:47:06   be like that was crazy like you just

00:47:09   want to call up your friend be like you

00:47:11   won't believe what I just listened to

00:47:12   and even if it's just it's just one of

00:47:15   the it is it just brings out so much I

00:47:18   guess adrenaline while you're listening

00:47:21   to I don't know what little and anger at

00:47:23   the system I mean because a lot you know

00:47:24   in a lot of a lot of what they're

00:47:26   uncovering it's it's suggesting very

00:47:28   strongly evidence not only of people

00:47:30   being incompetent but if people like

00:47:33   actively presenting a case they knew to

00:47:36   be false or impossible but it's just

00:47:38   like actual misconduct happening here

00:47:40   and even when they're explaining stuff

00:47:42   to you like they're not dumbing anything

00:47:43   down you know they are they're just

00:47:46   saying it in clear concise you know

00:47:50   understandable terms that just make it

00:47:53   so incredibly accessible I really really

00:47:56   love this podcast I can't wait for every

00:47:58   new episode to come out and we listen to

00:48:00   we save it for each other and listen to

00:48:01   it together yeah I mean like when it

00:48:04   when it for when we first finished

00:48:05   serial and a few weeks later or whatever

00:48:07   we found this but you find this podcast

00:48:08   cuz I wanted to know more because it was

00:48:11   we I finished serial almost a year after

00:48:13   it aired and so I was like there has to

00:48:15   be something more about this case so I

00:48:17   started looking it up right and so when

00:48:18   you found this pot like you described to

00:48:20   me as a bunch of lawyers talking more

00:48:24   about that case and that sounds so dull

00:48:26   it sounds so boring it like if you if

00:48:30   you if that's what you're thinking this

00:48:31   will be trust me it is way more

00:48:34   interesting than it sounds yeah and they

00:48:37   and their most recent episode too is

00:48:38   super fascinating they are actually

00:48:40   talking to a whole bunch of of inmates

00:48:44   in prison in a prison who have listened

00:48:47   to cereal and undisclosed and discussing

00:48:50   with them what they think about it and

00:48:51   it is really eye-opening and it totally

00:48:55   changes your mind about who an inmate

00:48:57   would be and what they would sound like

00:48:59   and what they

00:48:59   would think it's it's really great

00:49:02   they're having some trouble getting some

00:49:04   release information in order to get the

00:49:06   audio from these interviews from from

00:49:08   these guys that are incarcerated but

00:49:12   half of the episode has has already

00:49:15   aired and it's really very interesting

00:49:16   so it's taking a little bit of a turn it

00:49:18   it it's evolving the podcast is evolving

00:49:22   but it's still staying on track it's

00:49:24   real good all right so all right so okay

00:49:28   I'm putting it down because undisclosed

00:49:30   it's definitely going up to number two

00:49:31   because I did we just talked tons about

00:49:33   it and it made me remember how much I

00:49:35   really really liked it so because we're

00:49:37   talking about favorites right now so I

00:49:40   have hello Internet undisclosed 99%

00:49:42   invisible and then you look nice today

00:49:45   top four top four that we don't talk

00:49:52   about no I mean is there any other that

00:49:55   was a good stopping point we need to do

00:49:56   that I can sing the ATP song I usually

00:50:00   lip-sync it while I'm doing my hair in

00:50:03   the mirror my makeup do you want to

00:50:06   write well now this show is over there's

00:50:12   no need to damn it it was accidental

00:50:16   accidental accidental accidental John

00:50:21   didn't do any research Marco and Kasey

00:50:23   wouldn't let him cuz it was accidental

00:50:27   accidental accidental accidental and you

00:50:31   can find the show notes at ATP fm and if

00:50:36   you're into Twitter you can follow them

00:50:39   at CAS UIL ISS so that's Casey less ma

00:50:45   RC o AR M ent Marco Arment SI r AC USA

00:50:53   siracusa it's accidental they didn't

00:50:58   mean to it's hard there's one more long

00:51:05   accidental tech podcast soul

00:51:13   that's amazing

00:51:19   so it's pretty good for unprompted on a

00:51:25   podcast pretty good maybe in my top four