Top Four

00:00:00 ◼   ► all right have my top 4 list and I have

00:00:02 ◼   ► 8 items on it oh I have a shortlist of 1

00:00:05 ◼   ► 2 3 4 17 items on my short list but I

00:00:13 ◼   ► only have four of my top four we're

00:00:16 ◼   ► gonna be talking about our favorite

00:00:17 ◼   ► podcasts and because many many many of

00:00:20 ◼   ► our friends and friends do podcasts that

00:00:25 ◼   ► we're going to stay positive this

00:00:27 ◼   ► episode and we promise not to poop on

00:00:31 ◼   ► anybody's parade I would like to propose

00:00:34 ◼   ► a slight modification and this is this

00:00:36 ◼   ► is kind of how top 4 always is but I

00:00:40 ◼   ► just want to codify it for this one in

00:00:41 ◼   ► particular I'd like to say these is this

00:00:44 ◼   ► is not our top 4 podcasts period yes I

00:00:48 ◼   ► would say this is our top 4 podcasts

00:00:49 ◼   ► right now that's I totally wanted to say

00:00:51 ◼   ► that too yeah because I mean and it's it

00:00:53 ◼   ► I think that that's a theme throughout

00:00:55 ◼   ► our entire show is that our top four

00:00:58 ◼   ► things in general our top 4 how we feel

00:01:01 ◼   ► right now I mean if we watch different

00:01:03 ◼   ► TV shows next week and we fall in love

00:01:05 ◼   ► with something it could totally jump the

00:01:07 ◼   ► list right like I mean that's how I feel

00:01:09 ◼   ► anyway yeah right now listening to all

00:01:12 ◼   ► these podcasts we are right now thinking

00:01:15 ◼   ► about it and our what our top four would

00:01:17 ◼   ► be in our current listening moods

00:01:20 ◼   ► exactly like for instance like one of my

00:01:22 ◼   ► favorites you look nice today which is a

00:01:25 ◼   ► long term favorite but they've basically

00:01:28 ◼   ► not been making new episodes for like

00:01:30 ◼   ► three years or something like they've

00:01:31 ◼   ► had one or two here and there but

00:01:32 ◼   ► they've basically not been making the

00:01:34 ◼   ► episodes for a while so I would consider

00:01:36 ◼   ► that extremely inactive and therefore I

00:01:39 ◼   ► don't listen to it much because they're

00:01:41 ◼   ► not making new episodes so I'm not sure

00:01:44 ◼   ► I can have that on my list because

00:01:45 ◼   ► unless you think it's so good that it

00:01:48 ◼   ► transcends its dormancy I guess you

00:01:51 ◼   ► would say because if you think it's good

00:01:53 ◼   ► enough to make the list even though

00:01:56 ◼   ► there are no new episodes as a whole

00:01:58 ◼   ► like as of entity it could possibly jump

00:02:02 ◼   ► the list into even current listen to

00:02:04 ◼   ► podcasts of B of being preferred maybe

00:02:08 ◼   ► but I don't know like to me like my

00:02:10 ◼   ► enjoyment of podcast is very much in the

00:02:13 ◼   ► moment

00:02:14 ◼   ► so one that doesn't have new episodes

00:02:16 ◼   ► for so long and and it might be dormant

00:02:20 ◼   ► forever you never really quite know I I

00:02:22 ◼   ► can't enjoy that as much so I actually

00:02:25 ◼   ► if I was if I had to do like best

00:02:28 ◼   ► podcasts ever I would probably put you

00:02:31 ◼   ► look nice today somewhere in the top

00:02:33 ◼   ► four but as of now it's I don't think

00:02:36 ◼   ► it's in my top four because it is not

00:02:37 ◼   ► active and I haven't enjoyed it for so

00:02:38 ◼   ► long Steve I have such great memories of

00:02:40 ◼   ► like listening to it at my old job

00:02:42 ◼   ► sitting there stitching costumes

00:02:44 ◼   ► listening and laughing to myself and

00:02:46 ◼   ► like I don't know I just and getting to

00:02:48 ◼   ► know the guys like when we you know

00:02:50 ◼   ► we're meeting them and for the first

00:02:52 ◼   ► time and hanging out and South by

00:02:54 ◼   ► Southwest and I don't know just if it

00:02:58 ◼   ► feels like an old friend like they are

00:03:00 ◼   ► you know like I can't and that's the

00:03:03 ◼   ► thing a lot of a lot of the podcasts we

00:03:05 ◼   ► listen to especially because of your

00:03:06 ◼   ► career a lot of the podcasts we're

00:03:09 ◼   ► listening to now our friends talking so

00:03:12 ◼   ► I guess I have a little bit of a bias

00:03:14 ◼   ► edge on preferring certain podcasts over

00:03:17 ◼   ► others because I just like hearing

00:03:19 ◼   ► conversations amongst our friends it

00:03:22 ◼   ► gets to be very frustrated that I can't

00:03:23 ◼   ► get involved but it it I don't know it's

00:03:27 ◼   ► a little bit more personal because we've

00:03:30 ◼   ► had conversations with these people

00:03:31 ◼   ► before and I want to have conversations

00:03:34 ◼   ► again and hearing them in our house is

00:03:36 ◼   ► like you get to keep up to date on

00:03:37 ◼   ► friends that don't live nearby and you

00:03:39 ◼   ► don't have to make stupid phone calls

00:03:40 ◼   ► because phone calls are the worst agreed

00:03:43 ◼   ► on that I composed a list of all the

00:03:46 ◼   ► podcasts that I would potentially put on

00:03:48 ◼   ► my list and that like iix true in joy

00:03:51 ◼   ► over others because we do listen to a

00:03:53 ◼   ► lot so super-sorry if you don't hear

00:03:55 ◼   ► your podcasts on this list I feel so bad

00:03:59 ◼   ► okay just the tip 99% invisible you look

00:04:03 ◼   ► nice today undisclosed Planet Money

00:04:05 ◼   ► serial roderick on the line hello

00:04:07 ◼   ► internet startup robot or not word nerds

00:04:09 ◼   ► cortex reconcilable differences bonanza

00:04:13 ◼   ► even though I've only heard one episode

00:04:15 ◼   ► I want to talk about that yeah I have

00:04:20 ◼   ► lol written in parentheses right next to

00:04:22 ◼   ► it yep This American Life reply all and

00:04:26 ◼   ► mystery show

00:04:27 ◼   ► a big list is a big list and none of a

00:04:30 ◼   ► lot of them don't even make it close to

00:04:32 ◼   ► the top four but for me I really enjoy

00:04:35 ◼   ► all of those and like I said it's not

00:04:38 ◼   ► even near all the podcasts I listen to

00:04:41 ◼   ► we listen to so many more but those are

00:04:44 ◼   ► the ones that I think I would want to

00:04:45 ◼   ► like put on in the car something when

00:04:48 ◼   ► listening with somebody else and be like

00:04:49 ◼   ► oh you would be interested in hearing

00:04:51 ◼   ► this show for reasons either that it's

00:04:54 ◼   ► exceptionally funny or it is interesting

00:04:58 ◼   ► and thought-provoking or it's just the

00:05:01 ◼   ► barrier to entry is something that's

00:05:02 ◼   ► really easy yeah that's fair yeah I

00:05:05 ◼   ► mostly agree with those kind of things I

00:05:08 ◼   ► ranked mine more personally like what I

00:05:10 ◼   ► enjoy even if you would not enjoy them

00:05:12 ◼   ► as you probably put more tech shows and

00:05:14 ◼   ► stuff on so I was hoping to leave those

00:05:16 ◼   ► up to you yeah so so for me I mean I'm

00:05:19 ◼   ► just gonna start the bottom and work my

00:05:20 ◼   ► way up do you have a shortlist or hire

00:05:24 ◼   ► losers just eight so that's pretty short

00:05:26 ◼   ► okay so do your whole shortlist don't

00:05:29 ◼   ► don't do right don't rank of just just

00:05:31 ◼   ► random order like put them in the bag

00:05:32 ◼   ► and shake them up and read them off oh

00:05:35 ◼   ► no they don't know I don't know too much

00:05:37 ◼   ► pressure all right so I'm gonna start so

00:05:39 ◼   ► my number eight of my top eight my

00:05:44 ◼   ► number eight on our top four list is you

00:05:46 ◼   ► look nice today cause if it was still

00:05:49 ◼   ► active like on a regular schedule I

00:05:52 ◼   ► would probably retire I probably be

00:05:53 ◼   ► getting more enjoyment out of it but

00:05:55 ◼   ► because this is my top four podcasts

00:05:56 ◼   ► right now I I'm not getting enough you

00:06:00 ◼   ► look nice today to have it go further up

00:06:02 ◼   ► on the list see I think it actually

00:06:04 ◼   ► makes my list I don't know I've been

00:06:06 ◼   ► flip-flopping it around I think it might

00:06:09 ◼   ► make my list and if it's not on the list

00:06:11 ◼   ► it's like hovering at number five just

00:06:13 ◼   ► because I really like it I feel like I

00:06:16 ◼   ► could listen to it again and it would

00:06:17 ◼   ► feel just as funny as it did the first

00:06:20 ◼   ► time you know it's not it's not very I

00:06:23 ◼   ► don't know it just it's like a little

00:06:25 ◼   ► comedy show so yeah I will say like when

00:06:28 ◼   ► I'm in my in a couple of my overcast

00:06:30 ◼   ► test accounts that I test the the app

00:06:33 ◼   ► with I always subscribe do you look nice

00:06:35 ◼   ► today because it is I don't mind hearing

00:06:38 ◼   ► them again like and I'm gonna hear

00:06:40 ◼   ► little bits and

00:06:41 ◼   ► as I test various functionality of the

00:06:43 ◼   ► app so I don't mind hearing them again

00:06:44 ◼   ► they're they're relatively short and

00:06:46 ◼   ► they they are a good test and a few few

00:06:51 ◼   ► attributes that it has like you know

00:06:52 ◼   ► it's because I think it's mostly mono

00:06:53 ◼   ► and stuff like that like so I always add

00:06:55 ◼   ► those so I end up hearing bits and

00:06:57 ◼   ► pieces of you look nice today pretty

00:06:59 ◼   ► often but I haven't actually sat down

00:07:01 ◼   ► and listened to entire episodes of it

00:07:04 ◼   ► for years see now you're making me

00:07:06 ◼   ► question if I want to have it on my list

00:07:07 ◼   ► taking up a spot well you don't have to

00:07:10 ◼   ► decide yet you can wait till we get

00:07:13 ◼   ► closer to the end but but yeah so so I

00:07:15 ◼   ► do hear it a lot and the Parts I hear

00:07:17 ◼   ► you're right they are evergreen and they

00:07:19 ◼   ► it is really funny still but I really

00:07:22 ◼   ► haven't gone back and listened to them

00:07:23 ◼   ► like at length in years and so I I don't

00:07:27 ◼   ► know because there's so much more to

00:07:28 ◼   ► listen to now right that's the problem

00:07:30 ◼   ► there's nothing to listen to and not

00:07:32 ◼   ► saying that that's why it was good it

00:07:34 ◼   ► was good without it would still be good

00:07:36 ◼   ► even if it had tons of competition but

00:07:38 ◼   ► now there's so much to listen to

00:07:41 ◼   ► thinking about going back and listening

00:07:43 ◼   ► to a retired podcast it just doesn't

00:07:46 ◼   ► seem that productive well and and it's

00:07:49 ◼   ► it's mostly just like it never enters

00:07:50 ◼   ► your mind because there is there's

00:07:52 ◼   ► always something there's always a new

00:07:54 ◼   ► episode of one of your current active

00:07:55 ◼   ► podcasts ready to play in your podcast

00:07:57 ◼   ► but I would always recommend you look

00:07:59 ◼   ► nice today to someone who's getting into

00:08:01 ◼   ► podcasts oh absolutely and for me like

00:08:03 ◼   ► it was for me it was one of my biggest

00:08:05 ◼   ► professional inspirations and influences

00:08:08 ◼   ► like the way I edit I try to edit the

00:08:11 ◼   ► way they did even though I'm probably

00:08:12 ◼   ► not really doing you know the to the to

00:08:14 ◼   ► the degree that which they did it but

00:08:16 ◼   ► like the way I edit and produce ATP I I

00:08:20 ◼   ► think I'm very heavily inspired by you

00:08:22 ◼   ► look nice today and I and they I mean

00:08:24 ◼   ► the ground they broke was incredible and

00:08:26 ◼   ► like when we see them do little live

00:08:28 ◼   ► shows here and there still today like

00:08:30 ◼   ► the one that they did at xoxo they still

00:08:32 ◼   ► got it they're still really good and and

00:08:35 ◼   ► I really hope to see more from them but

00:08:36 ◼   ► and that's live too so you don't even

00:08:38 ◼   ► get the benefit of editing out some of

00:08:40 ◼   ► the slow bits you know that you that

00:08:43 ◼   ► happen when you're talking to somebody

00:08:44 ◼   ► on a podcast and they are still very

00:08:47 ◼   ► good they had a whole audience laughing

00:08:48 ◼   ► yeah that was that was solid so anyway

00:08:51 ◼   ► so that's that's my number eight okay my

00:08:54 ◼   ► number seven

00:08:55 ◼   ► he's 99% invisible oh that's only number

00:08:59 ◼   ► seven for you it this is you know how I

00:09:01 ◼   ► rank things this is this is a loose

00:09:03 ◼   ► ranking this is like what I felt like

00:09:05 ◼   ► two hours ago when I wrote this ranking

00:09:06 ◼   ► down did you really just write this two

00:09:08 ◼   ► hours ago we've been talking about doing

00:09:09 ◼   ► this for like four weeks now at least we

00:09:12 ◼   ► almost did it when we did the reality

00:09:14 ◼   ► show yep yep

00:09:16 ◼   ► Marco okay anyway 99% invisible is

00:09:20 ◼   ► definitely in my top four yeah it's it's

00:09:23 ◼   ► very very good I love that show I

00:09:25 ◼   ► recommend it to a ton of people I think

00:09:28 ◼   ► it is so informative and interesting it

00:09:30 ◼   ► it's if for anyone who hasn't heard 99%

00:09:33 ◼   ► invisible you're crazy

00:09:36 ◼   ► but so you should go here and it's about

00:09:38 ◼   ► all the little things in life that are

00:09:41 ◼   ► basically something you wouldn't know

00:09:44 ◼   ► about but is very interesting little

00:09:46 ◼   ► fact whether it's about history it's an

00:09:48 ◼   ► information about a city a person

00:09:50 ◼   ► architecture like it's it it spans the

00:09:54 ◼   ► wide range of just knowledge and

00:09:57 ◼   ► interesting things and it focuses on one

00:10:00 ◼   ► small particular thing and illuminates

00:10:03 ◼   ► it for the audience and it's hosted by

00:10:05 ◼   ► Roe and Mars right mm-hm and he has a

00:10:08 ◼   ► fantastic voice yeah like that voice and

00:10:12 ◼   ► I wish you would mix with a little bit

00:10:14 ◼   ► less bass makes it very hard to hear in

00:10:16 ◼   ► the car yeah that's true it is that was

00:10:19 ◼   ► a good test for voice booth because I

00:10:20 ◼   ► have to like try to make room in Mars

00:10:22 ◼   ► audible in a car which is very difficult

00:10:24 ◼   ► and that's usually where we're listening

00:10:26 ◼   ► to 99% of business yeah I know that's

00:10:27 ◼   ► the problem and it's also a great show

00:10:29 ◼   ► to have on if you have you know a mixed

00:10:32 ◼   ► company I guess of passengers where

00:10:35 ◼   ► you're not gonna be worried about any

00:10:36 ◼   ► swear words or anything that's gonna

00:10:39 ◼   ► offend anybody or turning one off or be

00:10:42 ◼   ► a certain type of humor that someone's

00:10:43 ◼   ► not going to get or be too specific of a

00:10:48 ◼   ► topic that someone wouldn't find it into

00:10:50 ◼   ► roaring to most people yeah that most of

00:10:52 ◼   ► my shows are tech shows and like you

00:10:54 ◼   ► know like if I was making a list of top

00:10:56 ◼   ► four podcasts to play around other

00:10:58 ◼   ► people I think that would be possibly

00:11:02 ◼   ► number one if it would certainly be

00:11:03 ◼   ► higher up on my list the number seven

00:11:05 ◼   ► but because this is you know the list of

00:11:08 ◼   ► what I even what my

00:11:09 ◼   ► my favorite right now for me and most of

00:11:11 ◼   ► my listening I do alone then you know

00:11:14 ◼   ► it's not quite up there simply because

00:11:16 ◼   ► I'm much more into tech shows that being

00:11:18 ◼   ► said though like there's this whole this

00:11:21 ◼   ► massive category of most most podcast

00:11:24 ◼   ► listening I think that occurs is these

00:11:27 ◼   ► like but often public radio shows but

00:11:29 ◼   ► shows that are like kind of general

00:11:31 ◼   ► interests like here's a nifty

00:11:32 ◼   ► interesting thing and it's kind of a

00:11:34 ◼   ► general audience thing it's not really

00:11:36 ◼   ► about any one subject it's not really

00:11:38 ◼   ► narrowly defined to one industry it

00:11:40 ◼   ► doesn't go very deep into the industry

00:11:42 ◼   ► but it's like here's an interesting

00:11:43 ◼   ► story that is a very big category in

00:11:45 ◼   ► podcasting and for good reason but I

00:11:47 ◼   ► don't usually get that much into those

00:11:49 ◼   ► because I have so many tech shows that I

00:11:51 ◼   ► enjoy that are that are shows by our

00:11:53 ◼   ► friends that I would like I'd rather

00:11:54 ◼   ► hear those so I don't really get a lot

00:11:57 ◼   ► of those like general interest shows and

00:11:59 ◼   ► I see the 90 percent invisible is one of

00:12:01 ◼   ► those and it's one of the best ones and

00:12:03 ◼   ► that's why I listen to it so much

00:12:04 ◼   ► whereas I don't even listen to most

00:12:07 ◼   ► other like kind of turns out this is

00:12:10 ◼   ► interesting shows yeah I mean I listen

00:12:12 ◼   ► and I know you got me into 99% invisible

00:12:14 ◼   ► I listen to I really enjoy when we do

00:12:16 ◼   ► listen to it and like you I totally

00:12:18 ◼   ► listen to our friend tech shows but

00:12:20 ◼   ► honestly I don't get much out of it I

00:12:22 ◼   ► mean I get a little bit out of it I kind

00:12:24 ◼   ► of feel like I'm keeping up to date in

00:12:25 ◼   ► your world and can know what's kind of

00:12:27 ◼   ► going on which is slowly becoming my

00:12:29 ◼   ► world I guess - the programming

00:12:32 ◼   ► nerdiness but but yeah I just I would

00:12:37 ◼   ► honestly rather listen to 99% invisible

00:12:39 ◼   ► which we save to listen to together in

00:12:42 ◼   ► the car then a tech news show because I

00:12:46 ◼   ► just it's not that's not me so maybe

00:12:50 ◼   ► someday I know but don't do a lot of

00:12:52 ◼   ► tech I know I listen to a TV every week

00:12:56 ◼   ► but I'm sorry hon I can't say it's a

00:12:58 ◼   ► favorite I listen to it because it's my

00:13:00 ◼   ► John and Casey right you know and I know

00:13:03 ◼   ► you're gonna pick new trilogy number one

00:13:05 ◼   ► yes neutral is my number one oh sorry

00:13:09 ◼   ► didn't make up a shortlist not even in

00:13:13 ◼   ► the top 17 no and I mean I listened to a

00:13:15 ◼   ► whole bunch of video game podcasts here

00:13:17 ◼   ► and there but again I don't listen to

00:13:18 ◼   ► them consistently because I just I don't

00:13:21 ◼   ► have the time to focus on

00:13:23 ◼   ► as much as I would want to I think if

00:13:25 ◼   ► you know I wasn't taking care of a kid

00:13:27 ◼   ► all day I would listen to much more but

00:13:30 ◼   ► a lot of the news shows I and then once

00:13:33 ◼   ► I it it kind of passes me by you know

00:13:35 ◼   ► and I'm like well that's kind of

00:13:37 ◼   ► outdated I can't listen to that anymore

00:13:39 ◼   ► yeah the new shows have a pretty short

00:13:41 ◼   ► half-life like if you don't listen to a

00:13:43 ◼   ► new show within about two weeks of it

00:13:45 ◼   ► airing you're pretty much and that's a

00:13:47 ◼   ► lot of the videogame ones too it's like

00:13:48 ◼   ► all about what's coming out now what's

00:13:50 ◼   ► new and what's hot and you know what's

00:13:52 ◼   ► and so it's not something I can really

00:13:57 ◼   ► get into as often as I would actually

00:14:00 ◼   ► want to yeah that makes sense

00:14:02 ◼   ► speaking of techie shows all right my

00:14:06 ◼   ► number six right now that I feel like as

00:14:08 ◼   ► of two hours ago my number six is cortex

00:14:12 ◼   ► which is from our friends at relay FM

00:14:15 ◼   ► from featuring Mike curly and CGP grey

00:14:18 ◼   ► that's not so much of a tech show though

00:14:20 ◼   ► I have it on my short list

00:14:21 ◼   ► it is techie I wouldn't say it's a tech

00:14:24 ◼   ► you mentioned technology sometimes it's

00:14:27 ◼   ► well but it's more about like living

00:14:29 ◼   ► life with technology I mean but like who

00:14:31 ◼   ► doesn't do that yeah I mean it's it's a

00:14:34 ◼   ► techie show the way like a Corolla S is

00:14:38 ◼   ► a sporty car it's like it's not a tech

00:14:41 ◼   ► show it's into a Corolla

00:14:43 ◼   ► no I'm saying like it's not a tech show

00:14:45 ◼   ► it's a techie show just like it's like

00:14:47 ◼   ► chocolate versus chocolatey food it's

00:14:50 ◼   ► food items you know it's like there's a

00:14:52 ◼   ► difference there go ahead keep making

00:14:53 ◼   ► more analogies yeah this is great so

00:14:55 ◼   ► anyway so cortex and what I like about

00:14:59 ◼   ► it I'm a huge fan of both CGP grey and

00:15:01 ◼   ► I'm Michael Hurley and they they are

00:15:04 ◼   ► they're both so good and and they work

00:15:06 ◼   ► really well together there and it is it

00:15:08 ◼   ► goes into a lot of depth into techy

00:15:10 ◼   ► topics that that I enjoy while also

00:15:13 ◼   ► having you know these two people I like

00:15:16 ◼   ► a lot so it is also one of my favorite

00:15:18 ◼   ► shows I don't have it on the list

00:15:19 ◼   ► because I have more things on the list

00:15:20 ◼   ► but so I'm your top 17 no well it could

00:15:24 ◼   ► be in the top five okay

00:15:27 ◼   ► I mean I was I make sure I keep up to

00:15:28 ◼   ► date with that show I like that show a

00:15:30 ◼   ► lot also I really like CGP grey voice a

00:15:34 ◼   ► lot

00:15:36 ◼   ► cut that out of you what yeah I know I

00:15:39 ◼   ► think you have to live with the

00:15:40 ◼   ► awkwardness I'm leaving yeah anyway so

00:15:48 ◼   ► so my number five I love you mark my

00:15:52 ◼   ► number five

00:15:53 ◼   ► in a similar vein of people I like

00:15:57 ◼   ► talking about tech things although this

00:15:59 ◼   ► is more technical is upgrade featuring

00:16:03 ◼   ► Jason Snell and I Michael Hurley

00:16:05 ◼   ► on this really FM network yeah I see I

00:16:06 ◼   ► don't listen to that sorry guys

00:16:08 ◼   ► well it's it's really a lot more

00:16:09 ◼   ► technical than I like all those guys but

00:16:12 ◼   ► all two of them yeah yeah so upgrade

00:16:15 ◼   ► with Jason snow and Mike early it is

00:16:17 ◼   ► really good like they it just kind of

00:16:21 ◼   ► came out of the blue like you know

00:16:22 ◼   ► whenever they started I don't know a

00:16:24 ◼   ► year ago roughly I had no idea what to

00:16:27 ◼   ► think of it I thought well you know they

00:16:29 ◼   ► already have like shows talking about

00:16:30 ◼   ► Apple and we have a joking about Apple

00:16:32 ◼   ► you know I guess I'll listen to one more

00:16:33 ◼   ► and it very quickly became one of my

00:16:36 ◼   ► favorites it's incredibly good and it

00:16:39 ◼   ► like if you listen to only a very small

00:16:43 ◼   ► number of techie shows about Apple I

00:16:46 ◼   ► would definitely include upgrade in that

00:16:49 ◼   ► list it is incredibly smart incredibly

00:16:51 ◼   ► good it is really really up there I

00:16:54 ◼   ► probably wouldn't fall asleep to it in

00:16:56 ◼   ► the car Wow no no there are certain like

00:17:02 ◼   ► really really tech heavy shows that you

00:17:05 ◼   ► put on in the car when I'm like dozing

00:17:07 ◼   ► off and you're like up time to stop

00:17:09 ◼   ► listening to like you know the ones that

00:17:11 ◼   ► we save for each other and oh yeah

00:17:12 ◼   ► listening to the text shows and you turn

00:17:14 ◼   ► on something and it's just so dry

00:17:18 ◼   ► technical like they're great shows and

00:17:20 ◼   ► you really like them but for me it just

00:17:22 ◼   ► it goes too deep right developer shows

00:17:24 ◼   ► yeah it go they go too deep and that's

00:17:26 ◼   ► all I'm saying is that that's why I doze

00:17:28 ◼   ► off because the topic just doesn't grab

00:17:31 ◼   ► me as a non programming person oh yeah

00:17:34 ◼   ► yeah like I I will save actual

00:17:37 ◼   ► programming shows like core intuition

00:17:38 ◼   ► and release notes I'll save those for

00:17:40 ◼   ► when you are not with me or asleep and I

00:17:43 ◼   ► know that you know you are not developer

00:17:45 ◼   ► and they will be a lot less interesting

00:17:47 ◼   ► to you although freakishly that's how

00:17:49 ◼   ► you got me into

00:17:50 ◼   ► whole bunch of shows where you started

00:17:52 ◼   ► listening to them because you thought I

00:17:54 ◼   ► was dozing off and it stopped me from

00:17:55 ◼   ► dozing off and I started listening yeah

00:17:57 ◼   ► that's how you got into hypercritical

00:17:58 ◼   ► yep yep I did get into hypercritical

00:18:01 ◼   ► that way and I really really want to

00:18:02 ◼   ► have enough time to go through and

00:18:04 ◼   ► listen to all those again but again it's

00:18:05 ◼   ► one of those podcasts that are it's not

00:18:08 ◼   ► making new ones so I'm less inclined to

00:18:11 ◼   ► catch up yeah you know because I know

00:18:13 ◼   ► it's gonna be there and it's not gaining

00:18:16 ◼   ► on me that I need to feel like I need to

00:18:18 ◼   ► get ahead of it you know what I did you

00:18:21 ◼   ► understand so if there's a current

00:18:23 ◼   ► podcast that I really like that I hadn't

00:18:25 ◼   ► heard all the episodes to which we I'm

00:18:28 ◼   ► sure will come up and talk about because

00:18:30 ◼   ► it's on my list I want to listen to that

00:18:33 ◼   ► first before going back to the dormant

00:18:35 ◼   ► shows yeah yeah I agree but I mean

00:18:38 ◼   ► hypercritical if you're gonna go back

00:18:39 ◼   ► and listen that is one that has

00:18:41 ◼   ► substantial value gamecontroller episode

00:18:44 ◼   ► no good there are so many that were so

00:18:47 ◼   ► good I mean almost every episode I would

00:18:49 ◼   ► say is worth hearing again but again it

00:18:53 ◼   ► is on my list because it's not an active

00:18:55 ◼   ► podcast like of mine you know and it's

00:18:58 ◼   ► not you know I really like John like I

00:19:00 ◼   ► like him as a person that we know and a

00:19:04 ◼   ► lot of times that brings me closer to a

00:19:06 ◼   ► podcast that I wouldn't normally

00:19:08 ◼   ► attached to as as quickly but I mean

00:19:11 ◼   ► John's just amazing beyond cast though

00:19:14 ◼   ► yeah I mean that's that's one of the

00:19:16 ◼   ► reasons why hypercritical worked so well

00:19:18 ◼   ► is because John is just so interesting

00:19:21 ◼   ► and and so likable like it's and he's

00:19:25 ◼   ► he's so unlike you know most people if

00:19:29 ◼   ► you put those people in that role it

00:19:30 ◼   ► wouldn't have been nearly as interesting

00:19:31 ◼   ► but he articulates things so well and

00:19:34 ◼   ► identifies so much about what makes

00:19:37 ◼   ► something good or bad and can express it

00:19:38 ◼   ► so well that he really is a completely

00:19:43 ◼   ► different class than most people in

00:19:44 ◼   ► doing those things ever reference he's

00:19:46 ◼   ► exactly like that in real life like

00:19:47 ◼   ► exact you know you should I heard him

00:19:50 ◼   ► critiquing his birthday cake one year

00:19:52 ◼   ► that was amazing except he melts when

00:19:56 ◼   ► you give them a baby or a dog yes all

00:20:00 ◼   ► right so my my number four riser right

00:20:03 ◼   ► now as

00:20:04 ◼   ► two hours ago whenever this list is the

00:20:07 ◼   ► talk show with John Gruber excellent

00:20:09 ◼   ► choice yeah I I think you know again

00:20:11 ◼   ► it's among the tech shows that I listen

00:20:14 ◼   ► to it is really really up there in fact

00:20:19 ◼   ► it is I think it's the highest ranked

00:20:21 ◼   ► show on my list that I consider like a

00:20:24 ◼   ► tech show really I I really liked when

00:20:27 ◼   ► they did the well back when it was on

00:20:29 ◼   ► five by five when they did the bond

00:20:32 ◼   ► series I was very into it then that was

00:20:35 ◼   ► great yeah it was really great we

00:20:36 ◼   ► definitely we watched along with it and

00:20:38 ◼   ► that was really fun but nowadays I catch

00:20:42 ◼   ► it here and there when you're playing it

00:20:43 ◼   ► in the kitchen but uh I I don't listen

00:20:47 ◼   ► to it as much sorry John but I have

00:20:49 ◼   ► another group or a podcast on my list

00:20:51 ◼   ► that's very close in the top four I'm

00:20:55 ◼   ► not sure if it's in the top four it

00:20:56 ◼   ► might be number five it's not but my my

00:20:59 ◼   ► ranking is just bobbing around all over

00:21:01 ◼   ► the place right now but just the tip Amy

00:21:04 ◼   ► Jane very good Paul Cabasa yeah it's a

00:21:07 ◼   ► very good show yes I hear they're

00:21:09 ◼   ► starting a new season soon excellent you

00:21:11 ◼   ► know it's mostly about their totally

00:21:14 ◼   ► strange happenings in their life which

00:21:17 ◼   ► are I can't believe these things happen

00:21:19 ◼   ► to people and we know that they do

00:21:20 ◼   ► because we've been there when it happens

00:21:22 ◼   ► sometimes and it's they're just too

00:21:26 ◼   ► outrageous funny personable people that

00:21:31 ◼   ► you just kind of want to listen to crazy

00:21:33 ◼   ► things they get into what makes the tip

00:21:36 ◼   ► good is that the they're there they're

00:21:38 ◼   ► both individually really funny mm-hmm

00:21:41 ◼   ► and they're funny together and they're

00:21:43 ◼   ► friends and you can tell their friends

00:21:45 ◼   ► you can tell they know each other very

00:21:46 ◼   ► well and they you can tell they like

00:21:48 ◼   ► hanging around biessing and being funny

00:21:49 ◼   ► together a lot and and that that

00:21:52 ◼   ► chemistry really comes through and it is

00:21:54 ◼   ► just really funny and it yeah that's

00:21:57 ◼   ► like they can they can nitpick

00:21:59 ◼   ► the littlest tiniest things almost like

00:22:01 ◼   ► in like a Seinfeld II kind of way but

00:22:03 ◼   ► more like more modern and funnier like

00:22:05 ◼   ► it like the way they like the ridiculous

00:22:07 ◼   ► situations that happen to them and the

00:22:09 ◼   ► way they relate that later on or like

00:22:13 ◼   ► you know the way they interpret it at

00:22:14 ◼   ► the time is just always like a certain

00:22:16 ◼   ► lens of just like

00:22:18 ◼   ► critical dry funniness perfect yep

00:22:22 ◼   ► exactly I really enjoy the show and it's

00:22:25 ◼   ► a quick show - yeah exactly them what

00:22:27 ◼   ► like a half-hour

00:22:28 ◼   ► yeah and they and they don't make

00:22:29 ◼   ► episodes every week they do like these

00:22:31 ◼   ► like seasonal batches so they'll do like

00:22:33 ◼   ► you know ten a year or something so it's

00:22:35 ◼   ► it's it's pretty easy to get into pretty

00:22:37 ◼   ► easy to listen to not a big like time

00:22:39 ◼   ► cost and and very they're very dense

00:22:41 ◼   ► episodes yeah I like that a lot

00:22:44 ◼   ► it depends on see that's it depends on

00:22:48 ◼   ► where you look nice today falls based on

00:22:51 ◼   ► where just the tip Falls interested s if

00:22:54 ◼   ► she said well alright my number three is

00:23:00 ◼   ► again right now as I feel like it two

00:23:03 ◼   ► hours ago is Roderick on the line

00:23:06 ◼   ► awesome yeah I so I've been listening to

00:23:10 ◼   ► Roderick on the line since the beginning

00:23:12 ◼   ► it has been for most of its life that

00:23:14 ◼   ► has been my shower podcast where I we

00:23:17 ◼   ► have a big Bluetooth speaker on a shelf

00:23:18 ◼   ► next to the shower so I can blast

00:23:20 ◼   ► podcast and hear them clearly in the

00:23:21 ◼   ► shower my shower podcast is ATP and

00:23:24 ◼   ► analog nice good choices sorry dudes if

00:23:28 ◼   ► that makes this awkward well so like I

00:23:32 ◼   ► love rock on the line it is it so it's

00:23:34 ◼   ► it's John Roderick and Merlin Mann just

00:23:37 ◼   ► talking basically and and what initially

00:23:40 ◼   ► got me hooked is that it puts Merlin in

00:23:43 ◼   ► the host role which on almost every

00:23:45 ◼   ► other show Merlin does he's not in that

00:23:48 ◼   ► host role and it turns out he's really

00:23:51 ◼   ► good at it and it's interesting to hear

00:23:53 ◼   ► that other side of him you know and and

00:23:55 ◼   ► so that got me and then of course John

00:23:57 ◼   ► Roderick is like kind of what's but seal

00:23:59 ◼   ► the deal and kept me there and kept me

00:24:01 ◼   ► interested for so long because he is

00:24:03 ◼   ► John Roderick is just this infinite

00:24:06 ◼   ► depth of interesting insights

00:24:09 ◼   ► interesting stories and and just like a

00:24:13 ◼   ► time capsule I don't know like I feel

00:24:18 ◼   ► like if you just dug around in the dirt

00:24:21 ◼   ► you found like a little plaque you know

00:24:23 ◼   ► that used to be quite shiny and amazing

00:24:26 ◼   ► and like you dusted it off and it

00:24:27 ◼   ► actually is now more amazing of a plaque

00:24:29 ◼   ► and you

00:24:30 ◼   ► pull it out on the ground and it's this

00:24:32 ◼   ► like weathered amazing stunning

00:24:36 ◼   ► container of a life and you open it up

00:24:40 ◼   ► and it just has these and these little

00:24:43 ◼   ► objects and trinkets and I don't know it

00:24:47 ◼   ► just that's what he feels like and

00:24:48 ◼   ► Merlin is just opening up this time

00:24:50 ◼   ► capsule of Roderick and he's telling

00:24:52 ◼   ► about his life and things that have

00:24:54 ◼   ► happened to him and it's like I can't

00:24:55 ◼   ► even believe that this is one person but

00:24:59 ◼   ► this is all we have so many videos of

00:25:04 ◼   ► Adam as an infant with Roderick on the

00:25:06 ◼   ► line playing in the background of the

00:25:08 ◼   ► videos right because I was like taking a

00:25:10 ◼   ► shower or something yeah and I was

00:25:11 ◼   ► hanging out you know like doing the

00:25:13 ◼   ► nursing business and and our Adams room

00:25:16 ◼   ► is right across from the bathroom

00:25:17 ◼   ► so yeah Adam has also heard a lot of

00:25:19 ◼   ► John Roderick yeah the one I remember

00:25:23 ◼   ► most is when they're talking about

00:25:24 ◼   ► stress bumps which is really awkward

00:25:26 ◼   ► because we're taking a video of our

00:25:27 ◼   ► little baby and they're talking about

00:25:29 ◼   ► like stress bumps on people yeah awkward

00:25:35 ◼   ► but yeah that's a cute video thank you

00:25:39 ◼   ► and you know that that's another show

00:25:41 ◼   ► where John and Merlin have known each

00:25:44 ◼   ► other for a long time and you can tell

00:25:46 ◼   ► and it comes through and they play off

00:25:48 ◼   ► each other very well

00:25:49 ◼   ► Merlin like you know John if you let

00:25:51 ◼   ► John talk he'll go on forever Merlin

00:25:53 ◼   ► knows like how like how to lead the

00:25:55 ◼   ► conversation how to bracket it where to

00:25:59 ◼   ► jump in where not to jump in he's very

00:26:02 ◼   ► very good at that yeah they did the

00:26:04 ◼   ► dynamic between them is just amazing and

00:26:06 ◼   ► it makes the podcast really great yeah

00:26:08 ◼   ► and and so in you know to have to have

00:26:10 ◼   ► that amount of depth and storytelling

00:26:12 ◼   ► and and just like deep references in in

00:26:16 ◼   ► a relatively short show it's pretty

00:26:19 ◼   ► impressive like the show is usually

00:26:20 ◼   ► around an hour see that's where I

00:26:23 ◼   ► disagree with you it is not a short show

00:26:25 ◼   ► that's why I can't keep up it's too long

00:26:27 ◼   ► I guess you fell behind right I fell

00:26:29 ◼   ► behind at one point and now I'm my my

00:26:33 ◼   ► debt of Roderick on the line is so great

00:26:36 ◼   ► like I catch it when you're in the

00:26:38 ◼   ► shower and you tell me when there's like

00:26:40 ◼   ► a particular episode that I really need

00:26:42 ◼   ► to listen to and I do

00:26:44 ◼   ► and I love every time I listen to it but

00:26:46 ◼   ► I just can't keep up which is really sad

00:26:50 ◼   ► because I want to keep up yeah you know

00:26:52 ◼   ► that's the reality of podcasts like

00:26:54 ◼   ► there's always gonna be a lot of great

00:26:56 ◼   ► podcasts out there and you don't always

00:26:57 ◼   ► gonna have time for all of them you know

00:26:59 ◼   ► and that that's why I like you know you

00:27:01 ◼   ► gotta you gotta pick and choose like I

00:27:02 ◼   ► as I said earlier like I don't really

00:27:03 ◼   ► listen to most of the popular public

00:27:05 ◼   ► radio shows because I just I would

00:27:09 ◼   ► rather hear these other things by my

00:27:11 ◼   ► friends and by tech people and stuff

00:27:12 ◼   ► like there's very few of those

00:27:14 ◼   ► mass-market shows that I actually want

00:27:16 ◼   ► to listen to over the other things that

00:27:17 ◼   ► I like yeah yeah I can't let's do this

00:27:21 ◼   ► American life anymore I mean I love it

00:27:22 ◼   ► and I want to listen to it but it just

00:27:24 ◼   ► it ends up not making the cut yeah I

00:27:27 ◼   ► mean I haven't listened to this American

00:27:28 ◼   ► life in years you know like we used to

00:27:31 ◼   ► listen to that in the car a lot but now

00:27:32 ◼   ► we've have other things that we like

00:27:33 ◼   ► better that are you know more specific

00:27:35 ◼   ► to us or by our friends or whatever

00:27:36 ◼   ► mm-hmm and I don't I don't have a bad

00:27:39 ◼   ► thing I mean podcasting like this is one

00:27:41 ◼   ► of the strengths of podcasting is that

00:27:43 ◼   ► you have this wonderful specialization

00:27:45 ◼   ► and if you want to hear podcasts about

00:27:48 ◼   ► you know to pen enthusiasts discussing

00:27:51 ◼   ► pens I just listen to it yeah and I was

00:27:56 ◼   ► super excited they were talking about

00:27:57 ◼   ► adult coloring because I totally have an

00:28:00 ◼   ► adult coloring book that I have because

00:28:02 ◼   ► I'm sick of coloring and Adams dumb

00:28:04 ◼   ► coloring books Wow I just need a little

00:28:09 ◼   ► more challenge anyway it is pretty great

00:28:14 ◼   ► but again and you know so I what are the

00:28:17 ◼   ► the podcasts I keep up with like

00:28:19 ◼   ► regularly oh I don't want to list it yet

00:28:22 ◼   ► because it might give away my number one

00:28:23 ◼   ► okay almost done all right my number two

00:28:27 ◼   ► right now as of two hours ago

00:28:29 ◼   ► my number two podcast is reconcilable

00:28:32 ◼   ► differences oh that's my cooking podcast

00:28:35 ◼   ► uh yeah that's a great

00:28:37 ◼   ► I always listen to that one when I'm

00:28:39 ◼   ► cooking so it's a little bit too dense

00:28:41 ◼   ► for me like that's that's one where so

00:28:43 ◼   ► this very little differences it's

00:28:45 ◼   ► another show here in relay FM and it is

00:28:47 ◼   ► it features John siracusa and Merlin

00:28:51 ◼   ► Mann and so what I like about this shows

00:28:54 ◼   ► are first of all John and Merlin are Bo

00:28:57 ◼   ► as we know we've talked to them already

00:28:58 ◼   ► so far they're both incredibly good

00:29:00 ◼   ► podcasters they're both incredibly

00:29:02 ◼   ► interesting and one thing I like about

00:29:05 ◼   ► it is that they're both in their 40s and

00:29:08 ◼   ► I'm 33 and they're both also very smart

00:29:12 ◼   ► and very wise even for their age like it

00:29:15 ◼   ► isn't they're not just Martin wise

00:29:16 ◼   ► because they're in their 40s they're

00:29:18 ◼   ► smart and wise in general and they

00:29:19 ◼   ► happen to have you know 10 to 15

00:29:22 ◼   ► whatever you know more years of life

00:29:25 ◼   ► experience than I do and so I listen to

00:29:29 ◼   ► that show that's a very dense show and

00:29:31 ◼   ► like I don't listen to a ball cooking

00:29:33 ◼   ► because I need to pay closer attention

00:29:35 ◼   ► to it see that's when I have a chance to

00:29:37 ◼   ► actually pay attention to a podcast is

00:29:39 ◼   ► when I'm cooking and you're keeping Adam

00:29:40 ◼   ► away from me like I can actually be in

00:29:42 ◼   ► the kitchen by myself just sauteing some

00:29:44 ◼   ► vegetables listening to John him early

00:29:47 ◼   ► he's very easy for you like compared

00:29:49 ◼   ► like you I have to put a lot more

00:29:51 ◼   ► thought into it because I mess up too

00:29:52 ◼   ► much if I don't but you know you were

00:29:53 ◼   ► much better than that cooking that I am

00:29:55 ◼   ► yeah I don't really focus that much on

00:29:56 ◼   ► right you don't mean to so anyway so I I

00:29:59 ◼   ► enjoy the show because you know it's

00:30:00 ◼   ► it's these two guys who I respect a lot

00:30:02 ◼   ► and and they they have never as far as I

00:30:05 ◼   ► know they've never regularly done

00:30:06 ◼   ► another podcast together like I've heard

00:30:08 ◼   ► both of them separately on lots of

00:30:10 ◼   ► things but I've never heard the man

00:30:12 ◼   ► incomparable episodes together well yeah

00:30:15 ◼   ► one or two here and there but not like

00:30:16 ◼   ► on a regular basis and in there those

00:30:18 ◼   ► are big episodes with a lot of other

00:30:19 ◼   ► people to use though right and you know

00:30:21 ◼   ► and both that you know John and Merlyn

00:30:23 ◼   ► have so much to say that you know they

00:30:25 ◼   ► there's not room for anyone else you

00:30:27 ◼   ► know on that show and to get a

00:30:28 ◼   ► meaningful amount of them at the same

00:30:29 ◼   ► time certainly so I like the show and

00:30:31 ◼   ► and it is so it is the you know these

00:30:34 ◼   ► two friends of mine who are great on

00:30:35 ◼   ► podcast together who are also incredibly

00:30:38 ◼   ► wise and it's them talking about their

00:30:42 ◼   ► lives and their philosophies about life

00:30:44 ◼   ► and their experiences in life so it's

00:30:46 ◼   ► it's a amazing combination of like very

00:30:50 ◼   ► high value content for me like very high

00:30:53 ◼   ► very dense very it's it's full of wisdom

00:30:56 ◼   ► and philosophy

00:30:59 ◼   ► from from these guys who who I you know

00:31:02 ◼   ► I I I stand to gain a lot from their

00:31:07 ◼   ► wisdom I think like there's a lot that

00:31:09 ◼   ► they have learned in life that I haven't

00:31:11 ◼   ► learned

00:31:11 ◼   ► yet and or that or things they do or

00:31:14 ◼   ► ways they look at things that I would

00:31:15 ◼   ► like to be better at that I would like

00:31:17 ◼   ► to pick up or even the way they've

00:31:18 ◼   ► analyzed their own pass to yeah when

00:31:20 ◼   ► they bring that up I think that that's a

00:31:22 ◼   ► very self-aware and it's really I don't

00:31:26 ◼   ► know it's just it makes you think it

00:31:31 ◼   ► makes you think about yourself and the

00:31:32 ◼   ► way you perceive things and I just and

00:31:35 ◼   ► their banter is really good together and

00:31:36 ◼   ► they lead each other really well and

00:31:39 ◼   ► exactly and that's this that's the show

00:31:41 ◼   ► that I rewind the most of all shows like

00:31:45 ◼   ► if I'm you know walking walking hops or

00:31:49 ◼   ► doing something else if I like kind of

00:31:51 ◼   ► zone out for a second or don't pay

00:31:52 ◼   ► attention for a second because it like

00:31:54 ◼   ► something happens you know what I'm

00:31:55 ◼   ► walking I got I pay attention to across

00:31:57 ◼   ► the street or whatever like I will

00:31:59 ◼   ► rewind to here again what I just didn't

00:32:01 ◼   ► pay much attention to I also don't mind

00:32:03 ◼   ► if I'm playing it you're like no no keep

00:32:05 ◼   ► it on I'll hear this part again yeah I

00:32:07 ◼   ► can re listen to it because again it is

00:32:08 ◼   ► so dense oftentimes I will I will get

00:32:11 ◼   ► more value out of listen to it a second

00:32:13 ◼   ► time and so that that one I'm I'm very

00:32:15 ◼   ► happy they're continuing to do it now

00:32:16 ◼   ► and and it is really really up there for

00:32:20 ◼   ► me alright so what's next you that was

00:32:23 ◼   ► your number two where's the number two

00:32:25 ◼   ► oh wait then you're missing one that I

00:32:28 ◼   ► thought we were going to be talking

00:32:29 ◼   ► about a lot okay keep going good well my

00:32:33 ◼   ► number one hello Internet that's my

00:32:36 ◼   ► number one really it's not just because

00:32:39 ◼   ► you like crazy voice a little bit no

00:32:43 ◼   ► it's more than that I can go beyond my

00:32:47 ◼   ► yeah anyway so I feel so awkward right

00:32:52 ◼   ► now what you want me to save you save me

00:32:56 ◼   ► okay so the reason so hello Internet is

00:32:58 ◼   ► my number one right now and and it's

00:33:00 ◼   ► been it's been my number one for a

00:33:01 ◼   ► little while and what I like about hello

00:33:04 ◼   ► Internet

00:33:04 ◼   ► is that so this is CGP grey and Brady

00:33:07 ◼   ► Haran to people who are mostly known I

00:33:10 ◼   ► believe for their YouTube stuff although

00:33:12 ◼   ► they're kind of taking the podcast world

00:33:14 ◼   ► by storm here because hello Internet is

00:33:15 ◼   ► is more popular than almost every show

00:33:18 ◼   ► I've talked about here and and it is as

00:33:23 ◼   ► they describe it it

00:33:25 ◼   ► is the two dudes talking podcast format

00:33:27 ◼   ► books many of you show yeah actually all

00:33:29 ◼   ► of your like top ones talking yeah I

00:33:32 ◼   ► know dudes talking can you what can I

00:33:35 ◼   ► say I like what you like yeah so but you

00:33:39 ◼   ► got me into this we were listening I

00:33:40 ◼   ► remember the first episode that I got

00:33:42 ◼   ► into it with was the flags they were

00:33:45 ◼   ► talking about flag design and I'm like

00:33:47 ◼   ► what the hell is this these do people

00:33:50 ◼   ► just talking on and on and on about

00:33:52 ◼   ► flags I was like really I think you

00:33:54 ◼   ► might have put it on because you thought

00:33:55 ◼   ► I was falling asleep and I and I ended

00:34:00 ◼   ► up really really liking it and it wasn't

00:34:03 ◼   ► until a couple months later that I got

00:34:05 ◼   ► into it even more and yeah it's just the

00:34:08 ◼   ► two of them have such a great chemistry

00:34:10 ◼   ► together I love it's when they describe

00:34:14 ◼   ► themselves it's you know the robot in

00:34:15 ◼   ► the caveman which i think is pretty

00:34:17 ◼   ► extreme but it's it's pretty funny

00:34:20 ◼   ► because they just you know one is one

00:34:24 ◼   ► way ones the other way and the way they

00:34:26 ◼   ► talk to each other and they play off

00:34:28 ◼   ► each other it's it's just fantastic it's

00:34:32 ◼   ► fantastic if you have I don't even know

00:34:34 ◼   ► how to describe how great it is yeah you

00:34:35 ◼   ► could get keep going no I mean that's

00:34:37 ◼   ► that's exactly how I feel about it it's

00:34:39 ◼   ► it is the two dudes talking format and

00:34:42 ◼   ► it is talking you know occasionally

00:34:44 ◼   ► about tech but you know kind of also

00:34:46 ◼   ► about YouTube also about life you know

00:34:47 ◼   ► also about ships and it's just about

00:34:50 ◼   ► whatever sit in which is what yeah great

00:34:52 ◼   ► and I love when Brady derails everything

00:34:55 ◼   ► and gray I could just hear him rolling

00:34:58 ◼   ► his eyes and shaking his head and it's

00:35:00 ◼   ► just so funny it's so funny with Brady

00:35:03 ◼   ► and all of his corners now it's and it

00:35:06 ◼   ► just it seems to have escalated so I

00:35:07 ◼   ► went back I just started listening to

00:35:09 ◼   ► the first few episodes just this past

00:35:11 ◼   ► weekend and it's amazing how they stand

00:35:15 ◼   ► up they don't it doesn't feel like it

00:35:17 ◼   ► was a podcast that grew into itself

00:35:19 ◼   ► because it was so good right from the

00:35:21 ◼   ► first episode I I thought I was gonna go

00:35:24 ◼   ► back and feel like oh this is gonna feel

00:35:25 ◼   ► really kind of like green and then they

00:35:29 ◼   ► were going to evolve into the podcast

00:35:32 ◼   ► that they are today and they did a

00:35:33 ◼   ► little bit of that you know it's

00:35:34 ◼   ► definitely expanded and it started off

00:35:36 ◼   ► it was supposed to just be 10 episodes

00:35:38 ◼   ► and it expanded and it just it was so

00:35:41 ◼   ► good from the beginning there was even

00:35:43 ◼   ► this crazy episode I was just telling

00:35:44 ◼   ► mark about um about ad blockers that was

00:35:50 ◼   ► so crazy relevant to what was happening

00:35:53 ◼   ► like two weeks ago so but that was put

00:35:56 ◼   ► out over a year ago and what they go

00:35:59 ◼   ► back and listen to it again you have to

00:36:00 ◼   ► because it was like they were ice you

00:36:04 ◼   ► would have guessed that they recorded

00:36:05 ◼   ► that after the whole hoopla debacle yeah

00:36:08 ◼   ► I mean like what I like about it is like

00:36:10 ◼   ► they these two characters and you know I

00:36:13 ◼   ► believe they're genuine I don't feel

00:36:14 ◼   ► like playing characters like these these

00:36:16 ◼   ► two people are amazing character there's

00:36:18 ◼   ► no way you can make up all the crazy

00:36:20 ◼   ► stuff that they talk about and have that

00:36:22 ◼   ► there's the depth to both of them that

00:36:25 ◼   ► they've revealed in the show and their

00:36:27 ◼   ► own I guess neuroses about things and

00:36:30 ◼   ► the way they look at life you know one

00:36:32 ◼   ► is he says he's not a minimalist but

00:36:35 ◼   ► whatever gray one's a minimalist one

00:36:38 ◼   ► loves collecting trinkets and things and

00:36:40 ◼   ► having a house full of old stuff and

00:36:42 ◼   ► looking at thing and it's just the the

00:36:45 ◼   ► way they're so different but yet they

00:36:47 ◼   ► come together and they're so similar

00:36:48 ◼   ► right and Lee and you know this is like

00:36:50 ◼   ► you know that that is not an original

00:36:51 ◼   ► formula of like these two different

00:36:54 ◼   ► people kind of yeah I mean yeah

00:36:56 ◼   ► obviously this has been done before in

00:36:58 ◼   ► media but this is a really really good

00:37:01 ◼   ► and totally organic version of that and

00:37:03 ◼   ► like they really they know how to push

00:37:05 ◼   ► each other's buttons so well too and and

00:37:08 ◼   ► they're also yeah and they're also

00:37:11 ◼   ► friends and you can tell and and so you

00:37:13 ◼   ► know it just comes together to be not an

00:37:16 ◼   ► original format but an incredibly

00:37:20 ◼   ► incredibly good implementation of that

00:37:23 ◼   ► of those pieces that have been done

00:37:25 ◼   ► before you know but these two people who

00:37:29 ◼   ► I they're just so perfect to do this

00:37:33 ◼   ► together you know and it just it comes

00:37:35 ◼   ► together so well that you can listen to

00:37:37 ◼   ► them talk about anything and we do he

00:37:41 ◼   ► wasn't talking about anything and it's

00:37:42 ◼   ► good new episodes of hello hello

00:37:44 ◼   ► internet are definitely my don't disturb

00:37:48 ◼   ► while listening to podcasts like I will

00:37:50 ◼   ► rewind and hear stuff

00:37:51 ◼   ► I don't want to miss a second of it

00:37:53 ◼   ► because I like it so much

00:37:55 ◼   ► yeah I'm the same way like I don't I

00:37:57 ◼   ► won't zone out during that one I'll save

00:37:59 ◼   ► it for like times and I can listen more

00:38:01 ◼   ► you know and not miss things every once

00:38:03 ◼   ► in a while we can listen together and

00:38:05 ◼   ► that's pretty fun yeah yeah that's good

00:38:07 ◼   ► but it's not often we would get so

00:38:09 ◼   ► backlogged if we had to wait to listen

00:38:11 ◼   ► together yeah yeah all right that's my

00:38:15 ◼   ► my top four my top eight actually so

00:38:17 ◼   ► well okay let's go to you yeah so hello

00:38:20 ◼   ► internets my first one number one there

00:38:22 ◼   ► was no doubt about that number two three

00:38:26 ◼   ► and four I'm waffling Oh waffling so

00:38:29 ◼   ► yeah I have okay so my two three and

00:38:33 ◼   ► four and I guess number five because

00:38:36 ◼   ► they're all I'm wobbling okay I have you

00:38:41 ◼   ► look nice today undisclosed 99%

00:38:44 ◼   ► invisible and just the tip as my top

00:38:46 ◼   ► ones under hello Internet and I feel

00:38:50 ◼   ► like any of them could go anywhere

00:38:51 ◼   ► because depending on the episode except

00:38:54 ◼   ► for you look nice today which is retired

00:38:56 ◼   ► which is why it's kind of like

00:38:57 ◼   ► flip-flopping in between spots here for

00:38:59 ◼   ► me and also just the tip doesn't come

00:39:01 ◼   ► out very often so that one's also hard

00:39:04 ◼   ► to pin down I guess in which number I

00:39:07 ◼   ► would prefer it at but undisclosed is a

00:39:11 ◼   ► podcast that we need to talk about yeah

00:39:13 ◼   ► definitely

00:39:14 ◼   ► so undisclosed is a podcast that started

00:39:17 ◼   ► after serial and if you haven't heard of

00:39:20 ◼   ► Syria living under a rock you at least

00:39:23 ◼   ► have to have heard of it but we only

00:39:26 ◼   ► listen to it a couple months ago we

00:39:28 ◼   ► started listening yeah we listen to it

00:39:29 ◼   ► after it ended right and I because I was

00:39:31 ◼   ► kind of on a podcasting low right at a

00:39:34 ◼   ► certain I'm like you know I'm gonna

00:39:35 ◼   ► listen to serial I have some time so I

00:39:38 ◼   ► started listening and about like two

00:39:40 ◼   ► episodes in I stopped and I said Marco

00:39:43 ◼   ► we have to listen to this together

00:39:44 ◼   ► because you would be really really into

00:39:46 ◼   ► it and he was all new and so I

00:39:48 ◼   ► eventually got him to listen to it and

00:39:50 ◼   ► he got into it you got into it right oh

00:39:51 ◼   ► I was hooked immediately yeah you were

00:39:53 ◼   ► totally hooked and because I would stop

00:39:56 ◼   ► and I would listen to the first few

00:39:58 ◼   ► episodes and the first episode like oh

00:39:59 ◼   ► my gosh this happened and I would

00:40:00 ◼   ► explain the whole thing and tell him all

00:40:02 ◼   ► this stuff that this crazy thing was

00:40:04 ◼   ► happening to this poor guy

00:40:06 ◼   ► we were and then the next episode would

00:40:08 ◼   ► happen I would spend all this time

00:40:09 ◼   ► talking to him about what happened on

00:40:11 ◼   ► cereal and so he's like finally I'm like

00:40:13 ◼   ► you have to just listen to it because

00:40:15 ◼   ► you're listening to me tell you all

00:40:16 ◼   ► about it and we got very very into it we

00:40:20 ◼   ► debated back and forth whether he was

00:40:21 ◼   ► guilty or innocent and I think you were

00:40:25 ◼   ► much more on the I don't know side and I

00:40:29 ◼   ► was more on the innocent side yeah at

00:40:31 ◼   ► the end of cereal of cereal at the end

00:40:33 ◼   ► of cereal I thought he I was in the

00:40:38 ◼   ► middle I was like he prob I was leaning

00:40:39 ◼   ► towards he probably was guilty but that

00:40:43 ◼   ► they definitely should not have

00:40:44 ◼   ► convicted him based on the case and

00:40:46 ◼   ► evidence that were presented mm-hmm so

00:40:49 ◼   ► next so after a cereal ended it left a

00:40:53 ◼   ► lot of questions open because the style

00:40:56 ◼   ► of podcasts that it was it was it's kind

00:40:58 ◼   ► of like a storytelling podcast it was

00:41:00 ◼   ► its NPR right it's public radio I don't

00:41:03 ◼   ► think it's actually a VMP organization

00:41:05 ◼   ► but if any of you so it was more of like

00:41:07 ◼   ► the storytelling format and it was very

00:41:08 ◼   ► edited and they told a great story but

00:41:12 ◼   ► it wasn't technically perfect and so a

00:41:15 ◼   ► new podcast came up after cereal called

00:41:18 ◼   ► undisclosed and undisclosed is run by

00:41:22 ◼   ► three lawyers one of which knows Adnan

00:41:27 ◼   ► personally and two others who are

00:41:32 ◼   ► interested in the case and started

00:41:33 ◼   ► blogging about it and talking about it

00:41:35 ◼   ► through sere because of serial

00:41:38 ◼   ► there are various law professors or

00:41:40 ◼   ► parts of different projects that help I

00:41:45 ◼   ► don't know that that helped people rifle

00:41:49 ◼   ► convictions and and yes everything make

00:41:51 ◼   ► sure people get to get you know adequate

00:41:53 ◼   ► defenses stuff like that yeah if you

00:41:55 ◼   ► want to look up their names we could say

00:41:56 ◼   ► I don't know but so we started listening

00:41:59 ◼   ► to this and it's a very technical

00:42:00 ◼   ► podcast what it has done is it goes into

00:42:03 ◼   ► depth every single episode

00:42:05 ◼   ► it focuses on one little tiny part of

00:42:08 ◼   ► the case and just picks it apart and

00:42:11 ◼   ► blows it totally open and explains

00:42:14 ◼   ► everything so if you're ever if you're

00:42:16 ◼   ► at all interested in

00:42:18 ◼   ► criminal justice in law in forensics in

00:42:22 ◼   ► anything to do with crime solving and

00:42:26 ◼   ► and the actual intricacies of it that

00:42:29 ◼   ► pertain to real life and not fiction

00:42:32 ◼   ► this is a fantastic podcast for you and

00:42:35 ◼   ► I think that that's what we really like

00:42:37 ◼   ► it's very deep into the law aspect of it

00:42:40 ◼   ► it's very deep into how the workings of

00:42:42 ◼   ► the police department were it just it's

00:42:45 ◼   ► so fascinating how detailed they get and

00:42:48 ◼   ► how well produced it is in addition to

00:42:51 ◼   ► that it's not just a whole bunch of

00:42:52 ◼   ► lawyers talking it has music it has

00:42:55 ◼   ► transitions and it's it's really just

00:42:58 ◼   ► beautifully beautifully done and it's

00:43:00 ◼   ► super super fascinating and all of the

00:43:02 ◼   ► proceeds I believe two of the podcasts

00:43:05 ◼   ► go to help

00:43:06 ◼   ► Adnan's case so the majority of the

00:43:09 ◼   ► they're all on side of Adnan innocent

00:43:12 ◼   ► and wanting to or not at least innocent

00:43:14 ◼   ► but at least saying that he was not

00:43:17 ◼   ► given a fair trial that he should not

00:43:21 ◼   ► have been convicted thank you convicted

00:43:26 ◼   ► based on the evidence that that was

00:43:28 ◼   ► available at the time and it just goes

00:43:30 ◼   ► it just adds layer upon layer upon layer

00:43:33 ◼   ► of frustration of you're like how could

00:43:35 ◼   ► this actually have happened in our

00:43:37 ◼   ► criminal justice system and it blows

00:43:39 ◼   ► open that it happens all the time and

00:43:42 ◼   ► it's just so interesting and frustrating

00:43:44 ◼   ► I think of it it's a lot like who we

00:43:46 ◼   ► really like the wire which we talked

00:43:48 ◼   ► about on a previous show and this takes

00:43:50 ◼   ► place like in Baltimore right yeah in

00:43:54 ◼   ► Baltimore yeah it's late night like in

00:43:56 ◼   ► 1999 like the same time period like the

00:43:58 ◼   ► same type of cops the same kind of

00:44:00 ◼   ► Police Department and you're talking

00:44:02 ◼   ► about them or you're talking about you

00:44:03 ◼   ► know it it just it it goes into these

00:44:07 ◼   ► details that you can't help but draw

00:44:09 ◼   ► parallels with the wire but this is real

00:44:11 ◼   ► life and it it's just it's scary it's

00:44:16 ◼   ► scary but it's fascinating and it's it

00:44:20 ◼   ► makes you feel like you're learning

00:44:21 ◼   ► something about the world that you need

00:44:24 ◼   ► to know

00:44:25 ◼   ► yeah and it's it is you know like as you

00:44:28 ◼   ► mentioned like it is very well produced

00:44:29 ◼   ► it is not just like

00:44:32 ◼   ► you know a lot of times if you have like

00:44:33 ◼   ► subject matter experts talking about a

00:44:36 ◼   ► subject from a podcast a lot of times

00:44:38 ◼   ► those are like recorded like on

00:44:39 ◼   ► somebody's speakerphone you can barely

00:44:40 ◼   ► hear it's all echoey and or like podcast

00:44:42 ◼   ► about people like people who do podcast

00:44:44 ◼   ► about like oh let's talk about Project

00:44:45 ◼   ► Runway you know what I mean fans of

00:44:48 ◼   ► something creating a podcast which is

00:44:50 ◼   ► what this kind of started out as but

00:44:52 ◼   ► it's so much more serious than that yeah

00:44:55 ◼   ► like the production values are just as

00:44:57 ◼   ► good as any like popular popular public

00:44:59 ◼   ► radio style show and the content as you

00:45:02 ◼   ► said like it is so good it is so

00:45:04 ◼   ► interesting and their professions and

00:45:07 ◼   ► they're talking to experts and they're

00:45:09 ◼   ► uncovering things and they know how to

00:45:11 ◼   ► read through the paperwork and they know

00:45:12 ◼   ► how to get hold of this paperwork and

00:45:14 ◼   ► because they all are lawyers with

00:45:16 ◼   ► degrees and access to all this kind of

00:45:18 ◼   ► stuff they're not just investigative

00:45:20 ◼   ► reporters right but they but at the same

00:45:23 ◼   ► time even though they are all lawyers

00:45:25 ◼   ► that that that are going into all those

00:45:27 ◼   ► technical jargon they also explain it

00:45:30 ◼   ► and so you don't have them accessible

00:45:32 ◼   ► yeah like we aren't lawyers we wouldn't

00:45:34 ◼   ► know what half this stuff was but they

00:45:35 ◼   ► explain it and so like if you are at all

00:45:38 ◼   ► interested if you were all interested in

00:45:40 ◼   ► serial and you haven't heard undisclosed

00:45:42 ◼   ► you have to listen to undisclosed it is

00:45:44 ◼   ► like because first of all you know what

00:45:47 ◼   ► they uncover it goes way beyond what

00:45:49 ◼   ► serial could have done you know just as

00:45:50 ◼   ► like a brief term done by a journalist

00:45:53 ◼   ► like these are experts in wrongful

00:45:55 ◼   ► convictions and evidence problems and

00:45:58 ◼   ► everything and so they actually went

00:46:00 ◼   ► through and found a lot of new stuff and

00:46:02 ◼   ► you know my opinion of the non science

00:46:05 ◼   ► guilt went from he probably did it but

00:46:08 ◼   ► shouldn't have been convicted to he

00:46:10 ◼   ► almost certainly didn't do it like the

00:46:13 ◼   ► the now like what they have uncovered it

00:46:15 ◼   ► makes it such that it would have been

00:46:17 ◼   ► almost impossible for him to do it and

00:46:20 ◼   ► there's all this evidence of so many

00:46:24 ◼   ► other problems and so many other

00:46:26 ◼   ► plausible theories of what happened that

00:46:28 ◼   ► are actually supported by evidence and

00:46:29 ◼   ► it's really I mean it's what happened

00:46:32 ◼   ► here was I mean you know we can't say

00:46:35 ◼   ► definitely but what happened here was mo

00:46:38 ◼   ► most probably severe injustice and

00:46:42 ◼   ► wrongful conviction yeah after the guys

00:46:44 ◼   ► in the prison for 15

00:46:46 ◼   ► now but it's a type of it's a type of

00:46:47 ◼   ► podcast that we keep pausing it and

00:46:49 ◼   ► being like oh my gosh did you just hear

00:46:53 ◼   ► that can you believe that let's target

00:46:54 ◼   ► like you that it's the type of podcast

00:46:55 ◼   ► that you pause and you talk about it

00:46:57 ◼   ► with whoever you're listening to and if

00:46:59 ◼   ► you're not listening to it with somebody

00:47:00 ◼   ► you have to pause it and be like oh my

00:47:03 ◼   ► gosh that just has like even if you're

00:47:04 ◼   ► by yourself you need a minute it would

00:47:06 ◼   ► be like that was crazy like you just

00:47:09 ◼   ► want to call up your friend be like you

00:47:11 ◼   ► won't believe what I just listened to

00:47:12 ◼   ► and even if it's just it's just one of

00:47:15 ◼   ► the it is it just brings out so much I

00:47:18 ◼   ► guess adrenaline while you're listening

00:47:21 ◼   ► to I don't know what little and anger at

00:47:23 ◼   ► the system I mean because a lot you know

00:47:24 ◼   ► in a lot of a lot of what they're

00:47:26 ◼   ► uncovering it's it's suggesting very

00:47:28 ◼   ► strongly evidence not only of people

00:47:30 ◼   ► being incompetent but if people like

00:47:33 ◼   ► actively presenting a case they knew to

00:47:36 ◼   ► be false or impossible but it's just

00:47:38 ◼   ► like actual misconduct happening here

00:47:40 ◼   ► and even when they're explaining stuff

00:47:42 ◼   ► to you like they're not dumbing anything

00:47:43 ◼   ► down you know they are they're just

00:47:46 ◼   ► saying it in clear concise you know

00:47:50 ◼   ► understandable terms that just make it

00:47:53 ◼   ► so incredibly accessible I really really

00:47:56 ◼   ► love this podcast I can't wait for every

00:47:58 ◼   ► new episode to come out and we listen to

00:48:00 ◼   ► we save it for each other and listen to

00:48:01 ◼   ► it together yeah I mean like when it

00:48:04 ◼   ► when it for when we first finished

00:48:05 ◼   ► serial and a few weeks later or whatever

00:48:07 ◼   ► we found this but you find this podcast

00:48:08 ◼   ► cuz I wanted to know more because it was

00:48:11 ◼   ► we I finished serial almost a year after

00:48:13 ◼   ► it aired and so I was like there has to

00:48:15 ◼   ► be something more about this case so I

00:48:17 ◼   ► started looking it up right and so when

00:48:18 ◼   ► you found this pot like you described to

00:48:20 ◼   ► me as a bunch of lawyers talking more

00:48:24 ◼   ► about that case and that sounds so dull

00:48:26 ◼   ► it sounds so boring it like if you if

00:48:30 ◼   ► you if that's what you're thinking this

00:48:31 ◼   ► will be trust me it is way more

00:48:34 ◼   ► interesting than it sounds yeah and they

00:48:37 ◼   ► and their most recent episode too is

00:48:38 ◼   ► super fascinating they are actually

00:48:40 ◼   ► talking to a whole bunch of of inmates

00:48:44 ◼   ► in prison in a prison who have listened

00:48:47 ◼   ► to cereal and undisclosed and discussing

00:48:50 ◼   ► with them what they think about it and

00:48:51 ◼   ► it is really eye-opening and it totally

00:48:55 ◼   ► changes your mind about who an inmate

00:48:57 ◼   ► would be and what they would sound like

00:48:59 ◼   ► and what they

00:48:59 ◼   ► would think it's it's really great

00:49:02 ◼   ► they're having some trouble getting some

00:49:04 ◼   ► release information in order to get the

00:49:06 ◼   ► audio from these interviews from from

00:49:08 ◼   ► these guys that are incarcerated but

00:49:12 ◼   ► half of the episode has has already

00:49:15 ◼   ► aired and it's really very interesting

00:49:16 ◼   ► so it's taking a little bit of a turn it

00:49:18 ◼   ► it it's evolving the podcast is evolving

00:49:22 ◼   ► but it's still staying on track it's

00:49:24 ◼   ► real good all right so all right so okay

00:49:28 ◼   ► I'm putting it down because undisclosed

00:49:30 ◼   ► it's definitely going up to number two

00:49:31 ◼   ► because I did we just talked tons about

00:49:33 ◼   ► it and it made me remember how much I

00:49:35 ◼   ► really really liked it so because we're

00:49:37 ◼   ► talking about favorites right now so I

00:49:40 ◼   ► have hello Internet undisclosed 99%

00:49:42 ◼   ► invisible and then you look nice today

00:49:45 ◼   ► top four top four that we don't talk

00:49:52 ◼   ► about no I mean is there any other that

00:49:55 ◼   ► was a good stopping point we need to do

00:49:56 ◼   ► that I can sing the ATP song I usually

00:50:00 ◼   ► lip-sync it while I'm doing my hair in

00:50:03 ◼   ► the mirror my makeup do you want to

00:50:06 ◼   ► write well now this show is over there's

00:50:12 ◼   ► no need to damn it it was accidental

00:50:16 ◼   ► accidental accidental accidental John

00:50:21 ◼   ► didn't do any research Marco and Kasey

00:50:23 ◼   ► wouldn't let him cuz it was accidental

00:50:27 ◼   ► accidental accidental accidental and you

00:50:31 ◼   ► can find the show notes at ATP fm and if

00:50:36 ◼   ► you're into Twitter you can follow them

00:50:39 ◼   ► at CAS UIL ISS so that's Casey less ma

00:50:45 ◼   ► RC o AR M ent Marco Arment SI r AC USA

00:50:53 ◼   ► siracusa it's accidental they didn't

00:50:58 ◼   ► mean to it's hard there's one more long

00:51:05 ◼   ► accidental tech podcast soul

00:51:13 ◼   ► that's amazing

00:51:19 ◼   ► so it's pretty good for unprompted on a

00:51:25 ◼   ► podcast pretty good maybe in my top four