0:00:00hello hello it looks good waveform looks
0:00:02good on the new posh as cushions
0:00:05microphone I was not sure if you were
0:00:06actually going to use that to record a
0:00:08show or if it was going to remain a
0:00:10trophy forever somewhere in your house I
0:00:12couldn't have predicted what you were
0:00:13going to do I like the idea of it taking
0:00:15some beatings like while I do like
0:00:18objects I also like objects that have
0:00:20like been used in battle like the real
0:00:23thing I prefer that to something that
0:00:24just sits in a glass case mmm so once
0:00:27this has got scratches on it and I've
0:00:28dropped it and it's got a few dings and
0:00:30dongs and things like that's just gonna
0:00:32make me love it more and you know
0:00:33knowing that it was used for the next
0:00:35two to three hundred hello Internet
0:00:37episodes you and I will be automated by
0:00:43then of course hopefully oh thanks I
0:00:46would like nothing more to collect the
0:00:48revenues on an automated hello Internet
0:00:51I'm so excited to tell you about this
0:00:53that I don't know how to tell you okay
0:00:56like do I stretch it out as a big long
0:00:58story with the twist or do I just like
0:01:01tell you the cool thing first and I
0:01:03don't know how to do it I think I'm
0:01:05gonna just jump right in and give you
0:01:07the good stuff cuz you just have to know
0:01:08it's too cool I don't know Brady isn't
0:01:10it always best to start at the beginning
0:01:11no not always
0:01:13I'm gonna mess around with the timeline
0:01:14a bit here okay I'm gonna send you a
0:01:16picture okay okay in itself it's a
0:01:19pretty cool picture here we go
0:01:22Oh what are you saying there the scale
0:01:24is a little tricky on this photograph
0:01:26but it looks like I am seeing a rocket
0:01:29launch at night I can't quite tell how
0:01:32big this actually is but it looks like a
0:01:33pretty reasonably sized Rockets
0:01:36launching over the ocean or watching
0:01:38over the ocean this is part of the
0:01:39Roxette X project that NASA runs where
0:01:42they launch these things called sounding
0:01:44rockets okay which are basically
0:01:47repurposed military hardware that they
0:01:49can send into space on suborbital
0:01:52flights as kind of a cheap way of
0:01:54putting things in space and they're
0:01:55often used for research or sometimes
0:01:57student projects and things like that so
0:01:59they'll go up and you'll get five or six
0:02:02minutes of zero-g and that sort of thing
0:02:05oh so there are people in there no there
0:02:06aren't people in the okay no they're
0:02:08nowhere near big enough for like people
0:02:09but they're still pretty hefty Rockets
0:02:12and they can go hundreds
0:02:13miles into space so you know pretty
0:02:17awesome things so interesting story as
0:02:20well by the way why they're called
0:02:21sounding Rockets because I thought there
0:02:23must be something to do with like sonar
0:02:24or something like they used to send them
0:02:26up and like have them make noise to
0:02:27measure things but it actually has
0:02:29nothing to do with it it comes from like
0:02:30the nautical term sounding which is when
0:02:33they used to drop like string or ropes
0:02:35with weights on them off the back of a
0:02:37ship to measure how deep the water was
0:02:39hmm so this is kind of like in Reverse
0:02:40because they're sending these things
0:02:42that really high
0:02:42they're sending these sounding rockets
0:02:44into space to figure out how deep space
0:02:46is I don't think that's the job of this
0:02:48sounding is the string at the end of the
0:02:49rocket if we're going to send it as far
0:02:51as we can and that's how big space is
0:02:53Mikiko boy golly it's a space it's
0:02:55really big there that last one we sent
0:02:59we ran out of string again
0:03:01so big deal and I'll actually uh
0:03:03endeavor to post a video of this
0:03:05particular one launching because it's
0:03:07not like watching a set in five take off
0:03:10to the moon where they start off really
0:03:12slow rumbling from the pad these things
0:03:14are like a bullet out of a gun they're
0:03:15amazing
0:03:16hmm I think it's something like 30
0:03:18g-forces when they take off there's
0:03:21nobody in that rocket it's crazy and
0:03:23even when it's that sustained flight
0:03:25it's about 15 J so you couldn't put
0:03:27people in it and they also spin at a
0:03:29crazy rate to keep them stable but then
0:03:31this particular one sort of stops
0:03:34spinning when it gets into space and it
0:03:35stayed sort of weightless and hardly
0:03:38moving at all for six minutes and then
0:03:39they re spin it up and it falls back
0:03:41down to earth and it lands in the ocean
0:03:45in the Atlantic Ocean this thing takes
0:03:47off from a place called the Wallops
0:03:50Flight Facility which is an island off
0:03:52Virginia hmm and then someone will fish
0:03:57it out of the water and if necessary
0:03:58they can get the experiment out of the
0:04:00rocket if it hasn't been bits
0:04:01information back hmm that's what's going
0:04:03on this particular launch happened just
0:04:06recently on August 13 and this thing
0:04:08went up a hundred miles so it went into
0:04:10space came back down fantastic these
0:04:14things have you know reasonably common
0:04:16launches like this but this one was a
0:04:18bit special and I'll send you another
0:04:20picture okay because as far as I know
0:04:24this is the first time that the hello
0:04:29Internet Nayland gear flag has gone into
0:04:33space there was a nail and gear flag in
0:04:39the nose of this rocket dick has now
0:04:43been into space Wow okay so you send me
0:04:48a picture of a mini flag that it looks
0:04:51like somebody made about the length of a
0:04:54number-two pencil this was in the nose
0:04:57of the spaceship that we're talking
0:04:59about here it was so if I may explain
0:05:01okay yeah how did this come to pass
0:05:04basically the start of Operation tetra
0:05:07as I'm calling it I was contacted by a
0:05:09Tim who I'm gonna give the code name
0:05:11deep space contacted me and this person
0:05:17was was working on the experimental
0:05:21payload and it's quite common for people
0:05:24working on these sort of things to put a
0:05:25couple of little personal trinkets in
0:05:26like everyone likes IANA if there's
0:05:28something that can be signed and they
0:05:30might put like an SD card with a bunch
0:05:31of pictures and everyone's names on them
0:05:33so they can say your name went into
0:05:35space and that so deep space contacted
0:05:37me and basically said there could be an
0:05:40opportunity here so we decided it was
0:05:43time for the hailing gear to go into
0:05:44space but it had to be extremely small
0:05:47we couldn't send like a full-size flag
0:05:49because the amount of space and weight
0:05:50you've got is like tiny yeah he
0:05:53basically said I had to be small enough
0:05:54that if it was all like round up it
0:05:56could fit inside like a tiny little like
0:05:58pill container and the amount of fuel
0:06:00you need to accelerate any mass to 30
0:06:03G's at a sustained level it gets
0:06:05expensive fast hmm but luckily I happen
0:06:08to be very good friends in Bristol here
0:06:09with a very talented woman whose
0:06:11business is doing tiny like intricate
0:06:14stitching and needlework
0:06:16so I didn't want to just send like a
0:06:18paper flag or a cardboard flag into
0:06:20space because I thought that would be a
0:06:21bit naff I want it to be like a proper
0:06:23cloth flag with you know the nailing
0:06:25gear embroidered on so what you're
0:06:29looking at there is not just like a
0:06:31piece of paper that looks at the nailing
0:06:32gear there is a proper cloth flag with
0:06:35little bits of string and like all the
0:06:37little things as if you were going to
0:06:38so it is a proper nailing gear flag
0:06:41shrunk down even the white part there is
0:06:44like separate cloth stitched on so this
0:06:48friend of mine made this beautiful tiny
0:06:50flag yeah you sent me the world's
0:06:52tiniest photograph of this tiny flag you
0:06:55sent me a photograph for ants so I
0:06:58couldn't quite see the detail but yes
0:06:59once you start describing it I can see
0:07:00that it has that additional bit of white
0:07:02on it so that it can be flown on a tiny
0:07:05planet that this spaceship might land on
0:07:07baby I'm gonna say that that makes it a
0:07:10hundred times better that it's not just
0:07:12a piece of paper with the logo printed
0:07:15out on it it is a hello Internet flag
0:07:17shrunk down to tiny size that's way
0:07:21better that's way better uh uh for the
0:07:24listeners after my complaining that the
0:07:27photograph Brady sent me was too small
0:07:29Brady has now sent macro shots of the
0:07:32detail of this flag I think these are
0:07:35ten 20 megapixel photos that have come
0:07:38across the old iMessage now I can see
0:07:41every if i zoom into my computer I can
0:07:44see every single individual lovingly
0:07:48crafted stitch on this tiny hello
0:07:51internet flag it's beautiful I did say
0:07:53to my friend Kate because like her
0:07:55business is making these tiny stitch
0:07:56things like she makes like recreations
0:07:58of detailed maps out of stitches hmm and
0:08:01I did say to her once the Tim say this
0:08:03like they're gonna get pretty excited I
0:08:05did say how do you feel about making a
0:08:06whole bunch of tiny you know India flags
0:08:08and she sort of said she may have a
0:08:13sideline anyway at the moment there's
0:08:18just the one man it's been in space and
0:08:20it's being sent back to me it was fished
0:08:22out of the well the whole rocket was
0:08:24lodged out of the Atlantic by the
0:08:25fishermen oh god I didn't even occur to
0:08:27me see you're gonna get this back in
0:08:28your hands yes Wow it's soon to be in
0:08:32the post from codenamed deep space and
0:08:35I've said can you also include like an
0:08:37official letter to like certify that it
0:08:39went into space and all that sort of
0:08:40stuff cuz you know I like all that kind
0:08:43of stuff
0:08:43so hello Internet flag in space it did
0:08:48get a little bit wet because when the
0:08:50rocket smashes into the season
0:08:52can leak in so a little bit of seawater
0:08:53got onto it but you know that just adds
0:08:56to the awesomeness of it in my opinion
0:08:57it was exposed to a bit of you know a
0:08:59bit a vacuum nurse and you know it's
0:09:01done the real deal man it's done the
0:09:03real deal this is such an artifact of
0:09:05hello Internet I know what you're
0:09:06thinking I know what you're thinking
0:09:08what am I thinking Brady medal of honor
0:09:10well medal of honor obviously I don't
0:09:13need to say that out loud I'm still
0:09:14thinking about just the object itself
0:09:16and oh yeah this needs to be kept in a
0:09:20vacuum seal like under a glass dome
0:09:23there needs to be some sort of like
0:09:26monument around this hello internet
0:09:29artifact this is great I really love
0:09:31this like the photograph that you sent
0:09:33me of this launch like it's majestic to
0:09:35see photographs of humans launching
0:09:37objects into space just under normal
0:09:38circumstances like look at this
0:09:40tremendous triumph we have as a species
0:09:42but now that this photograph has taken
0:09:44on almost majestic or holy proportions
0:09:47in my mind I lack the words to describe
0:09:49it yeah well my plan is to get that
0:09:51amazing photo framed with the flag
0:09:53framed mmm and have it like as a
0:09:55permanent display that could possibly go
0:09:56and well to us right yes yeah I was
0:09:59thinking Kate who stitched her I was
0:10:01thinking of having it that displayed in
0:10:03her shop for a like a month or two so
0:10:05she could say look I made this flag and
0:10:06here is going into space cuz then like
0:10:08normal people will see it and I won't
0:10:10just be in my office and it feels like
0:10:11it's like it's part of its well to a
0:10:13stage one I could see the museums around
0:10:16the world that are interested in in
0:10:17hello internet as a cultural powerhouse
0:10:19would want there's artifacts on loan on
0:10:22display I think this quite reasonably
0:10:24could go on world tours in museums
0:10:28across the globe without a doubt before
0:10:29going into its final resting place at
0:10:31the permanent hello internet museum on
0:10:33level seven of the Marty Blackstone
0:10:35right of course we're all be displayed
0:10:38next to the full-size hello Internet
0:10:40Nayland gave flag that was flown on Air
0:10:42Force One which is already framed in my
0:10:44office
0:10:46yes Brady's office the temporary holding
0:10:49place for all of the hello internet
0:10:51artifacts that will eventually be
0:10:53relocated to the proper Museum do you
0:10:55know what's amazing though what there
0:10:57was actually a nail in gear space race
0:11:03I'm gonna send you another picture I'm
0:11:07not even joking here comes another
0:11:08picture sent by another Tim who has been
0:11:11working on the innards and circuitry for
0:11:14a small satellite which is likely to be
0:11:17launched possibly next year please tell
0:11:20me this is a Soviet satellite it's not
0:11:22severe it's not serious
0:11:23oh wow this is a piece of it looks like
0:11:25circuit board like printed circuit board
0:11:28it's like shielding board and
0:11:30silk-screened
0:11:31on to it is the name of a few people of
0:11:33note engine the creator and well you can
0:11:37see it there gray yeah I can see that
0:11:39this the nail and gear silk-screened
0:11:41onto the shielding board for this
0:11:44satellite it's very I like that it's
0:11:46being it's being held in you know the
0:11:48blue gloves for working with delicate
0:11:49equipment or important equipment this is
0:11:51proper cleanroom stuff you're looking at
0:11:53here this is a honest-to-goodness
0:11:54awesome satellite that's gonna be proper
0:11:56like 600 kilometers in space for a long
0:11:59time this is no joking matter
0:12:00so up there as it's zooming around the
0:12:03earth there will be a nail in gear
0:12:05insert shielding the delicate innards of
0:12:07the satellite from the harsh radiation
0:12:09of space also awesome not as awesome as
0:12:12an actual flag going into space but
0:12:14still very very awesome do you know
0:12:16what's really cool about the miniature
0:12:18flag and why it means so much to me well
0:12:20is because it was a really big thing in
0:12:21the Apollo time to take miniature flags
0:12:24like to the moon and stuff oh yeah and
0:12:26you can still buy them on the
0:12:28second-hand market and a miniature
0:12:29American flag that went to the moon
0:12:31depending on whether it went around the
0:12:33moon landed on the moon went on the
0:12:35surface of the Moon you're looking at
0:12:37tens tens tens of thousands of dollars
0:12:40at least wait can you explain that to me
0:12:42are you saying that there was there was
0:12:44a market for astronauts bringing flags
0:12:46up on space missions and then bringing
0:12:48them back Apollo astronauts ever allow
0:12:50all astronauts still but it was a it was
0:12:52a particularly big thing in the Apollo
0:12:53time were allowed to take these personal
0:12:56preference kits they're called ppk/s
0:12:58in
0:12:58to space and it's like you know a cloth
0:13:00bag and you could put whatever you
0:13:02wanted in there so they would put things
0:13:04in there that would be valuable because
0:13:06they went to space and if the material
0:13:08stayed in the module that went around
0:13:10the moon you know that's pretty valuable
0:13:12if you took it with you into the lunar
0:13:14landing module and it went down onto the
0:13:16surface that made the item even more
0:13:18valuable if it was in a pocket or
0:13:19something when you walked around on the
0:13:20moon well that's pretty valuable stuff
0:13:23days it did start causing a few
0:13:26controversies later on Apollo 15 got
0:13:28themselves into a bit of controversy to
0:13:30do with taking up a bunch of envelopes
0:13:33and stamps and salt and stuff and the
0:13:35Hulk sort of grubby market side of it
0:13:37became a little bit controversial for a
0:13:40while that's what I was wondering is
0:13:41this like part of the unofficial
0:13:43compensation package of becoming an
0:13:45astronaut is a wink-wink we all know you
0:13:48get to bring up some stuff that you can
0:13:50sell on the grey market
0:13:51it wasn't even unofficial there are
0:13:52these things and you can still buy them
0:13:54today there's quite a market for them I
0:13:55think they're called
0:13:56insurance covers and they would be like
0:13:59an official envelope like with nice
0:14:01printed stuff on it like a picture of
0:14:03the crew commemorating the mission and
0:14:04like stamps and things like that and all
0:14:08the astronauts on that mission like Neil
0:14:10Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin and Michael
0:14:11Collins did this with each sign the
0:14:13envelope mm-hmm so it had all three
0:14:15members of the mission on the envelope
0:14:17and they do a whole bunch of them and
0:14:18then those envelopes would be split
0:14:19amongst the families because then if
0:14:21they then like died on the moon because
0:14:24they couldn't get life insurance because
0:14:26no one would insure them these things
0:14:27would be so valuable they would act as
0:14:29life insurance so they were actually
0:14:31called insurance covers and there were
0:14:32things they were sitting there signing
0:14:33thinking this is gonna keep my family
0:14:36fed if I die in space hmm interesting
0:14:38stuff isn't it the the envelope thing
0:14:41I've heard that I guess what I'm
0:14:42wondering is that this policy of you can
0:14:45bring up a little bag full of personal
0:14:47items yeah how much was it blessed or
0:14:50anticipated from NASA that you of course
0:14:52are going to bring up things that you're
0:14:54just going to resell versus oh you're
0:14:57you're bringing up a photograph of your
0:14:59wife and family you know to put on the
0:15:01dashboard of the spaceship like in a
0:15:03movie or whatever or leave on the moon
0:15:05there was one Apollo astronaut who left
0:15:06a photo of his wife and kids actually on
0:15:08the surface of the Moon or to do that
0:15:10like I guess that's what I'm wondering
0:15:11is
0:15:12I understand that they could officially
0:15:13bring up objects but was it foreseen or
0:15:15anticipated that this would rapidly turn
0:15:18into a gray market of memorabilia I'm
0:15:21pretty sure it was already a known thing
0:15:24that was happening hmm like even before
0:15:26Apollo the early missions it was sort of
0:15:28already a thing that items flown in
0:15:30space were valuable and astronauts
0:15:32you know when known to be taking them up
0:15:35there and like doing their own little
0:15:36side deals with people to take certain
0:15:38things into space it came to a head
0:15:40after Apollo 15 I can't remember all the
0:15:43exact details I think from memory it was
0:15:46reaching a kind of more industrial scale
0:15:48almost and then it kind of started
0:15:49looking bad or and then they sort of
0:15:51introduced some new rules but up until
0:15:53then it was kind of okay NASA again I'm
0:15:57just speaking from memory here but I
0:15:59believe NASA didn't even look at what
0:16:01was in those bags that's how personal
0:16:03they were the only person who had a list
0:16:04of what was in your personal preference
0:16:06kit I believe was probably deke Slayton
0:16:08who was the head of the astronaut office
0:16:10so he had to know what was in there just
0:16:11so that you weren't taking you know a
0:16:13stick of dynamite up or something like
0:16:15that or the or they have a they have an
0:16:17inventory just in case there's an Apollo
0:16:1813 moment of oh oh somebody brought
0:16:21scotch tape how incredibly convenient
0:16:22assist I actually brought the correct
0:16:25shaped carbon what a blessing that's
0:16:31really interesting
0:16:31I have one more question about this
0:16:33Brady Oh Andy what go on can you explain
0:16:36the name operation tetra I feel like
0:16:39there's some clever meaning to this that
0:16:40I as a person who lacks your
0:16:43encyclopedic knowledge of outer space I
0:16:45am not picking up on what is this
0:16:47operation name and what does it mean
0:16:49the reason is code operation tetra is
0:16:51not for me to reveal that is a decision
0:16:54for deep-space if we manage to reveal it
0:16:57okay that's how secretive it is if
0:16:59deep-space wishes to reveal why we're
0:17:01calling our operation tetra that is his
0:17:03prerogative okay
0:17:04well we'll find out next episode if such
0:17:08information is revealed or if it remains
0:17:10forever a mystery I was so excited by
0:17:13this but before I spoke about it on the
0:17:15show today because obviously most just
0:17:17had been done by email and post before I
0:17:19spoke about it on the show today I
0:17:20wanted to have had a voice conversation
0:17:22just to find out you know you find out
0:17:23so much more that way
0:17:24so I had the phone call and that just
0:17:27got me even more excited and I couldn't
0:17:29tell you because I wanted to surprise
0:17:30you on the show hmm so I immediately
0:17:32phoned my wife and she's like what's
0:17:35going on I'm so excited I have to tell
0:17:37you what's going on in LA and she
0:17:39already knew about the thing going into
0:17:41space I was like I spoke I spoke to him
0:17:43she said oh that's good and you know I
0:17:45told her all sorts of bits and pieces
0:17:46and she listened and you know what her
0:17:49reaction was I'm going to guess as with
0:17:52so many things with your wife and hello
0:17:54Internet related her reaction was no
0:17:56reaction she said don't forget to pick
0:17:59up some bananas at the show oh god
0:18:06that's the worst
0:18:07that is so deflation arey I can
0:18:09understand that feeling I have been on
0:18:11the unintentional receiving end of those
0:18:13kind of remarks to where you're telling
0:18:14someone something that you think is so
0:18:16amazing and that other person is like oh
0:18:18that's great that's great we need milk
0:18:20as well if you happen to be going out
0:18:21like before that she did ask me one
0:18:25question and that kind of shot me down
0:18:27as well because I said oh the flow I
0:18:29went into space I went into space and
0:18:31she went we're in space did it go mm-hmm
0:18:33and then I went oh well it like it went
0:18:36up like high for six minutes and then it
0:18:38fell back down into the sea okay she was
0:18:41looking for a planet name actually two
0:18:48and a half years ago on day one of the
0:18:50podcast we launched a probe headed out
0:18:53towards Pluto and it's just come back
0:18:56anyway I did pick up the bananas we get
0:18:59the important things done here speaking
0:19:01of space gray Elon Musk apparently has
0:19:04released the picture of what the
0:19:07spacesuit is gonna look like that is
0:19:10gonna be worn by his SpaceX crew when
0:19:14they like go to space I mean I don't
0:19:18know why there's crew on his dragon
0:19:20cargo capsule spurt
0:19:22okay I have a question Brady okay all
0:19:23right there's a good chance I won't have
0:19:24the answer well okay my question is
0:19:27actually partly about that because I
0:19:29feel like maybe I'm wrong about this but
0:19:31it feel like you're a real NASA man am I
0:19:35right about that like yeah a couple of
0:19:37episodes ago
0:19:38there was something about cars in
0:19:40Australia and it was like Oh everybody
0:19:42in Australia it's wibbly-wobbly versus
0:19:44zingers like and I'm a wibbly-wobbly man
0:19:46like people pick sides in nineteen oh
0:19:49you're talking about now Holden Holden
0:19:50yeah yeah I got it all right I may be
0:19:54wrong but I'm realizing when you send me
0:19:56this story about SpaceX that I feel like
0:19:59you're a NASA man in your bones and I
0:20:03would wonder first is that correct and
0:20:06if it is correct
0:20:07how much do you follow news about SpaceX
0:20:10I love NASA because you know I've got
0:20:13the runs on the board haven't they they
0:20:14put people on the moon they were the
0:20:17ground breakers and when they were doing
0:20:18space stuff at its best it was all about
0:20:20just what can we do what can we do just
0:20:23for the sake of doing not what's gonna
0:20:25make us money not how much money are we
0:20:27gonna get by landing on the moon or
0:20:29putting people in space or taking a
0:20:31photo of the moons of Saturn it was just
0:20:34what can we do and let's do it and I
0:20:36love them for that times have changed
0:20:37and at times have even changed at NASA
0:20:39in my opinion and so when I look at
0:20:42things like SpaceX
0:20:43while they're doing impressive difficult
0:20:46things mm-hmm
0:20:47a lot of it is kind of what can we do
0:20:50that's already been done but cheaper
0:20:53what can we do that's already been done
0:20:55but earn money from it right and like
0:20:57that's important and like I know it's
0:20:59important to make space stuff cheaper
0:21:02because that's what's gonna make it you
0:21:04know more useful to us as humans but
0:21:07that just doesn't inspire me I'm not
0:21:09inspired by economics like when they
0:21:11keep landing these reusable rockets and
0:21:14everyone's like this is a great
0:21:16milestone for space like it's not a
0:21:20great milestone it just means it's gonna
0:21:21make rocket use cheaper mm-hmm and
0:21:24that's to me that's not a milestone
0:21:25that's just like economies and like
0:21:28don't get me wrong it does look pretty
0:21:29impressive when those things land
0:21:30because there just is such a bizarre
0:21:31looking thing to see something land
0:21:33backwards like that mm-hmm so I am
0:21:35impressed by the visuals of it but I
0:21:37don't think all these milestones of
0:21:39making things cheaper are like inspiring
0:21:42me I think they're good and I'm glad
0:21:43people are doing them and I'm glad
0:21:45they're a businessman who care about
0:21:46these things because it's important to
0:21:48push it all forward so I'm not going to
0:21:49poopoo them but I'm also not gonna
0:21:52get stars in my eyes and think how
0:21:54wonderful this is I just think it's just
0:21:56the corporatization and the businesses
0:21:59ation of space which was inevitable and
0:22:02fine
0:22:03but it just doesn't stir me you like
0:22:06space before it was all corporate yeah
0:22:08you've summed it up there yeah it's
0:22:10interesting because I am very aware that
0:22:13of all of the companies that are in the
0:22:17musk orbit the only one that I actually
0:22:19really follow with any detail is Tesla
0:22:23and I haven't followed any of the news
0:22:25out of SpaceX it just doesn't hold my
0:22:27mind even though I completely agree with
0:22:30with your comments but like the
0:22:31economics of it are important for the
0:22:34future of space travel it's just that I
0:22:36don't follow it I actually haven't even
0:22:38seen one of those videos yet of the
0:22:40Rockets landing backwards like I've I've
0:22:42seen still photographs but I've never
0:22:44actually seen the video itself it's
0:22:46quite a sight it's quite a funny size
0:22:48it's worth a look yeah but I just think
0:22:50is interesting is I do know people who
0:22:51are into space and it's like for some
0:22:53people like while you are a NASA man
0:22:56some people are all in on SpaceX like
0:22:59they're super interested in SpaceX and
0:23:01not very interested in the stuff that
0:23:04came before space yeah there are two
0:23:06types of SpaceX fans there are the ones
0:23:08you just described who we'd like just
0:23:09love that it's becoming business and
0:23:11private mhm and they're also like the
0:23:14cheerleaders who just like anything
0:23:16space is good hey if it's space it's
0:23:18good and they get all excited and you
0:23:20know my feeling on this face - your
0:23:21pressure that's how you feel about it
0:23:22space - you pressure you mustn't say
0:23:25anything bad about SpaceX because
0:23:26they're like pushing space forward and
0:23:28like you know they're not question that
0:23:31anyway I think it's an interesting thing
0:23:33because I vaguely know when SpaceX stuff
0:23:35is going on because I see people
0:23:36tweeting at me about the news and asking
0:23:39what I think about it I'm just always
0:23:41the way that I just don't follow it it
0:23:43doesn't pull my attention toward it
0:23:47maybe I think you've solidified
0:23:50something in my mind that it's it's like
0:23:51the NASA stuff is interesting because it
0:23:53was first and as I think I've said
0:23:56before in the podcast I view a lot of
0:23:57the NASA stuff as particularly
0:23:58interesting the whole space race time
0:24:00was particularly interesting because it
0:24:02may be one of the only times in human
0:24:04history where there there
0:24:05like technological happenings that were
0:24:07off the timeline I feel like the
0:24:09progress of technology is is very
0:24:11ordered and one thing very naturally
0:24:13comes after the next but that maybe we
0:24:15had this moment where there was a like a
0:24:16push that was ahead of its time
0:24:19which is then why we didn't have much
0:24:20progress for a long time but that makes
0:24:22it super interesting that there were
0:24:23other things happening in the world that
0:24:26forced this early expansion of a thing
0:24:28that really shouldn't have happened for
0:24:30another 60 years so like that is very
0:24:32interesting but I think you're right
0:24:34maybe a lot of the stuff right now it
0:24:36doesn't capture my attention because it
0:24:38is mostly about dropping the costs to
0:24:41the point at which it's economical to do
0:24:43and then maybe my interest will uptick
0:24:45once it gets out of the we're dropping
0:24:47the cost phase and it's like okay I
0:24:49think I'll be excited once we start
0:24:52actually moving cargo in and out of
0:24:54space or like when we actually start
0:24:56mining asteroids like Jeff Bezos his
0:24:59rifle company is trying to do like I
0:25:01think that's maybe where I'll be
0:25:02interested again but I still feel like
0:25:04I'm at a real lull for interest in
0:25:07what's going on in space like we're
0:25:09going through a necessary process but
0:25:11it's not exciting to me yet until we
0:25:14start doing like new things again yeah I
0:25:17think I get a little bit demotivated
0:25:19when I think people are doing things
0:25:21just for the money and I feel like it's
0:25:25an inevitable consequence of private
0:25:28funded space travel and exploration that
0:25:31it has to be done for the money
0:25:32otherwise it won't happen so I'm not
0:25:34saying like Elon Musk only cares about
0:25:35money right but I am saying they are
0:25:38making sure everything they do will make
0:25:39money and that's when it becomes a bit
0:25:42demotivating even when they start you
0:25:44know doing lots more cargo or when they
0:25:46start mining stuff I don't care about
0:25:48the mining asteroids because it's
0:25:50profitable I'm really curious to see
0:25:52what it's like on an asteroid mm-hmm
0:25:54like that's gonna be cool but when it's
0:25:57about money I straightaway go I love
0:26:01when things are being done just for the
0:26:02accomplishment for the glory of it glory
0:26:05I care you glory too I understand that
0:26:07feeling I think that my feeling is a
0:26:08little bit different in that I think
0:26:10with stuff like this in my mind when I
0:26:12think about mining asteroids I think
0:26:15it's not like wow Bezos or musk are
0:26:17gonna make a fortune on the
0:26:19asteroids right isn't that exciting I
0:26:20think I'm much more interested because
0:26:22it's like the money is an indication
0:26:25that something is useful now it's not
0:26:29just a stunt it means like if a thing
0:26:31can be done for profit it means there is
0:26:34some intrinsic utility in the thing for
0:26:38someone somewhere like that's where it
0:26:41starts becoming interesting again like
0:26:42like once the economics of asteroid
0:26:45mining become viable it means that
0:26:48whatever it is that's happening is
0:26:50useful and relevant to people in some
0:26:52way but it feels like we're not there
0:26:55yet and who knows how long it will take
0:26:57to actually get there this this is also
0:26:59the kind of thing I feel like I have no
0:27:00idea or mental estimate of like what is
0:27:03the timeline of how long is it going to
0:27:05take before the very first roll of
0:27:08copper is ever pulled in from from an
0:27:10asteroid like I have no idea is that ten
0:27:12years is it 50 years is it a hundred
0:27:15years away like I don't have any concept
0:27:16of what people are thinking about in
0:27:18that domain I get a and I get why that
0:27:20is of interest to you and it certainly
0:27:22is important to lots of people and it's
0:27:25inevitable that that's the way things
0:27:26would end up but I feel sad that that is
0:27:29actually become so important to everyone
0:27:32like that's what's reigned in NASA isn't
0:27:34it means that saying you know how is
0:27:37what you're doing actually useful to
0:27:38humans not another space probe into the
0:27:41outer solar system like do something
0:27:43useful there's this that all this
0:27:44pressure to do something useful
0:27:46there was nothing useful about going to
0:27:48the moon oh there was something useful
0:27:50it was proven those Russkies that we
0:27:52were better I'm gonna directly argue
0:27:54that that was actually tremendously
0:27:55useful and that's why it was a bit of a
0:27:57like an artificial technological leap we
0:27:59gotta prove to somebody that we're way
0:28:01better than them like watch out Russians
0:28:03America rules yep but America didn't
0:28:05prove its might by finding a cheaper way
0:28:10to refine copper ore didn't move its
0:28:12might by increasing its gross domestic
0:28:15product by fifteen percent and used that
0:28:17as a way of saying see Russia we are
0:28:19mighty what they did was something
0:28:21audacious with no seeming economic value
0:28:26so even though there was the political
0:28:27utility of it at the time the thing they
0:28:30realized they had to do
0:28:31- really well the world and prove their
0:28:35amazingness wasn't economic news outside
0:28:38that anyway
0:28:41Elon Musk has released this image of
0:28:43their space suit I was just curious what
0:28:46you thought of it I thought like it's
0:28:48obviously a very glossy PR picture
0:28:50mm-hmm designed to impress but it's the
0:28:52first look at a private space suit I
0:28:54wonder what you thought of it I think it
0:28:56looks sleek it looks very 2001 there
0:28:59isn't much to comment on it except there
0:29:01is something that endlessly tickles me
0:29:02about the Guardian has an article in
0:29:05which they referenced that quote chief
0:29:08executive Elon Musk revealed the suit on
0:29:10Instagram on Wednesday right like
0:29:13there's something about that that I just
0:29:14I find really funny that we live in this
0:29:17world where the CEOs of major companies
0:29:20or even big notable politicians like
0:29:23they announced stuff on like Twitter and
0:29:24Instagram and I just wait for the day
0:29:27when someone really important announces
0:29:29the thing on reddit and then newspapers
0:29:31have to reveal that cyber monkey 47
0:29:34revealed his future plans about this you
0:29:37know enormous company that he runs on
0:29:39his reddit I guess it is only a matter
0:29:41of time before some kid who's had a
0:29:45social media account forever with the
0:29:47dumb name who just wants to keep keeping
0:29:49it becomes a CEO of an important company
0:29:51and then all of his announcements are on
0:29:54this social media with this with his old
0:29:56handle right that he made up when he was
0:29:5713 like I just it tickles me to think
0:29:59that that's going to happen eventually
0:30:00or like I look forward to like a
0:30:02president declaring war on snapchat the
0:30:09snaps not there anymore
0:30:10I'd say chaos gray grabbed it this
0:30:12episode of hello Internet is brought to
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0:30:27hello Internet one of the things I like
0:30:30about listening to audiobooks is I find
0:30:32much more than a physical book it's
0:30:34easier to reread an audio book that you
0:30:37like a lot and I have a few favorites
0:30:39that I like to revisit on occasion and
0:30:41one of those that's been on my mind
0:30:43given some of the things
0:30:44we've been discussing on hello Internet
0:30:46is Bill Bryson's in a sunburned country
0:30:49bill bryson if you're unaware is a funny
0:30:52expats travel writer who I've enjoyed a
0:30:55bunch of his books a walk in the woods
0:30:57where he goes through the Appalachian
0:30:58Trail is also quite good and I think I
0:31:01have recommended to you before but in a
0:31:02sunburned country this is the book where
0:31:05he visits Australia and I think perhaps
0:31:07I need to revisit this book so I can
0:31:09more deeply understand
0:31:11acha I feel like there's something I'm
0:31:14still not getting about this term that
0:31:15Brady discusses on the podcast and it's
0:31:18been a long time since I've read in a
0:31:19sunburned country so I think I need to
0:31:21go back for some acha updates I need to
0:31:24hear Bryson tell me about all of the
0:31:26kind of super adorable things that you
0:31:28can find in Australia cuddly koalas
0:31:31posing platypi the country just filled
0:31:34with so much cuteness that I think I
0:31:36didn't appreciate on my first listen
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0:32:36the show all right one other reasonably
0:32:41well yes significant piece of space news
0:32:45yeah where am i Brady right now I
0:32:47actually don't know where you are I'm
0:32:49assuming you're in England but seriously
0:32:51you never tell me I actually at one
0:32:53point thought you'd gone to America for
0:32:55the Eclipse and hadn't told me
0:32:57maybe I have no a student know that you
0:33:00didn't it is actually true that I have
0:33:03occasionally recorded the podcast from
0:33:05another location and it just has to come
0:33:06up in the space of recording but now for
0:33:09this recording I'm sure to the
0:33:10disappointment of hundreds of thousands
0:33:13of Tim's we are not in America recording
0:33:16while the Eclipse is occurring on a
0:33:19podcast many many moons ago Oh clever it
0:33:23was speculated whether or not we were
0:33:25going to be in America for the Eclipse
0:33:27whether or not the podcast was going to
0:33:29still be in existence at the time that
0:33:31the Eclipse occurred and the podcasts
0:33:34still exists but we did not make it to
0:33:37America at this summer sorry everybody
0:33:39for two minutes I was jealous of all my
0:33:42American friends but for the 48 hours
0:33:45either side of those two minutes I was
0:33:47feeling very very happy to not be in
0:33:49airports and on planes yeah I think that
0:33:51is definitely the case where both of us
0:33:53we've ended up with a summer with lots
0:33:54of travel and it was just it was very
0:33:56difficult to try to coordinate
0:33:58I had the longest traveling I ever had
0:34:00this summer which was then followed by a
0:34:03very short break being back in England
0:34:04and then a big anniversary trip and it's
0:34:08just like the summer was just a big big
0:34:10traveling summer and it just really
0:34:12wasn't it wasn't going to work out going
0:34:14to America so I have said before saying
0:34:17a total solar eclipse is an amazing
0:34:20thing I did see one in China and it
0:34:22remains one of the most extraordinary
0:34:24things I've seen so I think everyone who
0:34:27was lucky enough to see in the United
0:34:28States is very fortunate and I hope they
0:34:31enjoyed it but the cheer pressure got a
0:34:37little bit crazy at some points on
0:34:39Twitter and like I braved it
0:34:41occasionally with a little bit of
0:34:43mocking the America centric nosov it
0:34:47took even my breath away like someone
0:34:51needs to get over there and tell
0:34:52Americans that eclipses like happen
0:34:53elsewhere like seriously it was crazy
0:34:56that how America centric it was but ok
0:34:58ok my fault for following so many
0:35:01Americans on Twitter but CNN did my head
0:35:04in most of all constantly referring to
0:35:07this as the eclipse of the century by
0:35:10what cried
0:35:10area this is the eclipse of the century
0:35:13I have not been able to establish I
0:35:15can't even make one up is it the only
0:35:17Eclipse this century Brady no is it the
0:35:20only eclipse in America this century no
0:35:23okay is it the biggest eclipse no is
0:35:27it's not the longest of the personal
0:35:29wall is the glyph it's not the smallest
0:35:31it's nothing I couldn't find a single
0:35:33criteria by which this was the eclipse
0:35:36of the century other than it was
0:35:38happening right now in America is that
0:35:39the eclipse of the century that has been
0:35:41most often referred to as the eclipse of
0:35:43the century perhaps that is the metric
0:35:45by which they are measuring and it will
0:35:47remain so until the next solar eclipse
0:35:49in the United States but there are some
0:35:51people saying oh there's some
0:35:52coast-to-coast criteria but eclipses
0:35:55have gone across like other countries
0:35:57like if you are not being America
0:36:00centric there is no way you could call
0:36:02it the eclipse of the century
0:36:03and even if you are being America
0:36:05centric they have a better Eclipse this
0:36:07century admittedly not for a long time
0:36:10when is the better Eclipse oh it's like
0:36:11right at the end of the century okay
0:36:13well promise right now if the podcast is
0:36:16still running it will be there for the
0:36:20second Eclipse of the century we missed
0:36:21the first one but we'll catch the second
0:36:23one in America I started looking up
0:36:25other eclipses to find out what really
0:36:27is the eclipse of the century I decided
0:36:28I wanted to figure out what would be the
0:36:30eclipse of the century I didn't really
0:36:32decide on one there was a quite a good
0:36:34one in Antarctica that goes the opposite
0:36:36way to normal but what I then started
0:36:38looking at was what I just the best
0:36:40eclipses full-stop
0:36:41and there's actually a Wikipedia page
0:36:43you can go to because you know how they
0:36:45know every Eclipse forever so they know
0:36:48when they're gonna happen in that and
0:36:49you can look up all these amazing things
0:36:50like eclipses that coincide with
0:36:53transits of Venus and things like that
0:36:56like all these amazing alignments that
0:36:58happen in space and there was one I
0:37:00think in like 20,000 years or something
0:37:02where a total solar eclipse coincides
0:37:05with a transit of Venus and things like
0:37:07that so I was reading about that stuff
0:37:09right and that stuff is so far in the
0:37:12future it starts to make you feel a
0:37:14little bit insignificant
0:37:19and then I saw an image taken from space
0:37:23of the Eclipse that just happened and it
0:37:25was like a time-lapse showing the moon's
0:37:28shadow sweep across the earth and when
0:37:31you saw it in time-lapse and you
0:37:33realized all that eclipses is like a
0:37:36shadow fleetingly crossing another
0:37:39object part of me looked at that imagery
0:37:42and thought that's amazing like that's
0:37:43really amazing to see it's amazing that
0:37:45we can do that that we can look at the
0:37:47moon shadow from space aren't we amazing
0:37:48but another part of me thought like that
0:37:52was just a shadow briefly touching
0:37:55another object in space it happens all
0:37:58the time
0:37:59it will happen for hundreds of thousands
0:38:02of more years it happens all across the
0:38:04universe all the time
0:38:05and yet we humans down here are getting
0:38:08so excited and calling it the eclipse of
0:38:10the century and like our planets
0:38:11grinding to a halt so we can watch it
0:38:13and it made me suddenly think that
0:38:15humans like really fleeting and pathetic
0:38:19few things first I need you to send me
0:38:21the link to this list of eclipses
0:38:23because I can I searched for Wikipedia
0:38:26eclipse the top result was Twilight Saga
0:38:29: Eclipse so I am NOT able to find this
0:38:32list that you're talking about put list
0:38:35of future astronomical events okay this
0:38:37is Wikipedia article is very interesting
0:38:39but it is not what I think we're really
0:38:40looking for here list of future
0:38:42astronomical events yeah and if you
0:38:44scroll down to things that are happening
0:38:46like you know in the year 20,000 346
0:38:50turbine becomes the North Star and
0:38:52things like that okay right so I'm
0:38:54looking at list of future astronomical
0:38:56events I enjoy this breakdown we have
0:38:58the 21st century including things like
0:39:01Halley's comet reaches perihelion as it
0:39:04returns to the inner solar system
0:39:05there's Venus occults Jupiter I don't
0:39:08actually know what the word cult's means
0:39:11in this context it's kind of like an
0:39:13eclipse but the other way it's like two
0:39:15things crossing over each other in the
0:39:16night sky okay so what was that one
0:39:18Venus occult Venus is called Jupiter so
0:39:20that would look like Venus was crossing
0:39:22in front of Jupiter from our perspective
0:39:25okay so there's a few things that are
0:39:27listed here in the 21st century the next
0:39:29category is 22nd to 30th century no
0:39:33the near Star Trek future I imagine they
0:39:36then goes to the 4th to 10th millennium
0:39:39but I really enjoy that after the 10th
0:39:42of millennium they simply call it the
0:39:44far future right I feel like 4th to 10th
0:39:47millennium I think you can categorize it
0:39:50as the far future I like that they like
0:39:52Nana now after 10th millennium far
0:39:54future is what we need to talk about
0:39:56some of these are awesome that and it
0:39:58makes me sad that I won't be here like
0:40:00in the year 38,000 172 if you're on the
0:40:04surface of Neptune
0:40:05you can watch Uranus transit across the
0:40:09front of the Sun the rarest of all
0:40:10planetary transits Oh wouldn't that be
0:40:13amazing or if you were around here on
0:40:15earth in the year 67,000 173 Mercury and
0:40:19Venus crossed the ecliptic at the same
0:40:21time but then a mere two thousand years
0:40:24later you can watch something I would
0:40:25love to see a simultaneous transit of
0:40:28Venus and Mercury both crossing the
0:40:30Sun's face at the same time personally I
0:40:33like Wikipedia for some of its its
0:40:34little human elements here that in the
0:40:37year 4000 772 on October 13th the Mayan
0:40:41calendar will require a sixth digit I
0:40:44like to imagine that on October 12 of
0:40:47that year there are once again people
0:40:49freaking out about the inevitable end of
0:40:51the earth at that point like oh the
0:40:54Mayan calendar hopefully has five digits
0:40:57that's referred to as the Mayan bug I
0:41:00really like the idea of that that people
0:41:03will just have totally forgotten all of
0:41:04the history up until now that go now
0:41:05Mayan calendar again it's coming up to
0:41:07another digit the minds didn't see this
0:41:09far in advance and in America it would
0:41:11still be eclipses of the century that
0:41:13time there's an eclipse that's going to
0:41:15happen here it's it's an interesting
0:41:17list yes you these things I enjoy the
0:41:19idea of physicists calculating and
0:41:21finding these things are simulating
0:41:23these things on a computer however it is
0:41:24they they come across these events this
0:41:26is also for me as a former physics major
0:41:29it's the pleasing nature of being able
0:41:32to do calculations that are so many
0:41:34times in physics you're doing a
0:41:35calculation and say these things like oh
0:41:37well we're just gonna have to ignore
0:41:38friction and air resistance for this
0:41:41physics problem but when you're dealing
0:41:43with very massive bodies in space
0:41:47in the vacuum of space you can say yeah
0:41:49we can actually calculate what's going
0:41:52to happen in the year 7,000 right
0:41:54because we can't ignore friction because
0:41:55there isn't any friction like it's
0:41:57trivial in this case so I love the idea
0:41:59that you can just calculate that stuff
0:42:00so far out in advance apparently there
0:42:02is a point though where even like solar
0:42:04system predictions become chaotic there
0:42:06has to be because you have to flag solar
0:42:08wind and the vacuum of space is not a
0:42:10pure vacuum there has to be some point
0:42:13at which that is but like how close is
0:42:14that to the actual heat death of the
0:42:16universe I would love to know somebody
0:42:17knows yeah like where does it start
0:42:19becoming chaotic in those predictions
0:42:22long after you and I are in the ground
0:42:25that's for sure but all of this all of
0:42:28this aside the thing I kept thinking
0:42:29about with this eclipse coming up in
0:42:31America and of course as having made
0:42:34reference to eight years ago I feel like
0:42:36someone has been turning up the volume
0:42:38in the background of my life for the
0:42:40past three months about how often I hear
0:42:42about this eclipse like on Twitter and
0:42:44references to the rest of it and as it
0:42:47kept getting closer and as I was
0:42:48thinking more and more about eclipses
0:42:49and seeing what equipment you need to
0:42:54view the Eclipse and where you need to
0:42:55be I have to say I feel like this this
0:42:57took all of the shine off of eclipses in
0:43:01my mind because like you when you were
0:43:04talking about oh it's a shadow crossing
0:43:06in front of an object I feel like I have
0:43:07crossed some kind of mental barrier
0:43:09where I don't even understand why this
0:43:12is anything other than just a thing of
0:43:16mild interests I don't know I feel like
0:43:18I can't understand anymore how it is
0:43:20that people are interpreting me eclipse
0:43:22it's like okay so your subjective
0:43:23experience is you're outside it goes
0:43:26dark for a few moments and then it's
0:43:28light again in the middle of the day
0:43:29that's not what the Eclipse experience
0:43:32is though like that's that's not what
0:43:33happens okay why is it so breathtaking
0:43:36it is a very beautiful thing it's rare
0:43:39right let's ignore like the historical
0:43:42significance of the human-like
0:43:44relationship with eclipses because you
0:43:46can easily dismiss that as old
0:43:48superstition right so let's just talk
0:43:50about that as just a thing of beauty it
0:43:52is a very beautiful thing okay it's also
0:43:55like just something so far from what
0:43:57you're used to seeing like watching the
0:43:59Sun which you've seen like
0:44:01every day of your life in the sky
0:44:02suddenly being like eaten away like
0:44:05pac-man is like it's just very strange
0:44:08to look up and think that's like a
0:44:10really strange thing to see
0:44:11like if something extraordinary is in
0:44:13the sky and then for the two minutes of
0:44:15totality not only is it strange to have
0:44:18like Knight thrust upon you so quickly
0:44:21there is like an eeriness to it because
0:44:23everything else is like de still so like
0:44:26the birds are all out and animals are
0:44:28around and suddenly they're quite
0:44:29confused so some interesting things
0:44:31happen but the most important thing is
0:44:33it just looks really beautiful the way
0:44:35you see the corona and look at the
0:44:38diamond ring phenomena and the
0:44:40glistening around the edge of the Sun
0:44:42this black disc in the sky with the
0:44:43light around it but the other thing
0:44:45that's seeing a total eclipse in real
0:44:47life impressed upon me that is never
0:44:50conveyed in photos this is what I'm
0:44:52wondering like what is the in presence
0:44:53experience yeah there is something
0:44:55that's not conveyed in photos and this
0:44:56will sound silly because I know how far
0:44:58away all these objects are right but
0:45:01there is like a kind of three
0:45:03dimensionality to it that's hard to
0:45:05explain it doesn't just look like a flat
0:45:07photo or a video it feels more
0:45:09three-dimensional and almost feels like
0:45:11you could reach out and touch it it's
0:45:13got this really weird quality to it and
0:45:15I was talking to a very good friend
0:45:17Destin beforehand who did watch the
0:45:19Eclipse I would have been severely
0:45:20disappointed if Destin had not seen the
0:45:22Eclipse and who also I must say did
0:45:24invite me to go and watch it with him
0:45:25and tried to accommodate me so he was
0:45:27very kind but I couldn't make it and he
0:45:29also took an incredible photo of the
0:45:32International Space Station transiting
0:45:34the Sun partway through the Eclipse so
0:45:37make sure you go and check that out and
0:45:38whatever other videos Destin has
0:45:40produced about it because I'm sure
0:45:41they'll be brilliant although I have not
0:45:42yet seen them but when I was talking to
0:45:44Destin beforehand I said to him whatever
0:45:47you do like make sure you put your
0:45:48camera down at some point and look at it
0:45:50because there's something about seeing
0:45:52it that no photo will convey and you
0:45:54should just stop and look at it for a
0:45:55minute because that's the best thing
0:45:57about it and afterwards like he said I
0:46:01even stopped taking photos I almost
0:46:03forgot to take photos because looking at
0:46:05it was what it was all about and he
0:46:06couldn't have agreed more hmmm as I said
0:46:09do you agree like no photo can explain
0:46:10what that looks like and he said 100%
0:46:12great hmm maybe you're talking me back
0:46:14into it braiding you should definitely
0:46:16watch one at some point they are lovely
0:46:18to watch I feel like your poetic words
0:46:20are unwinding something about my
0:46:23experience of seeing photographs on
0:46:25Twitter of people holding paper plates
0:46:27in front of their face this one for me
0:46:29in a way was a bit ruined by the hype
0:46:31mm-hmm like I'd rather go and watch one
0:46:34in Antarctica or like in some obscure
0:46:37place where it's a bit it feels a little
0:46:40bit more I don't want to sound like
0:46:42really like like a personal experience
0:46:44you want to pry yeah I don't want to
0:46:46like say like more at one with a nature
0:46:47or something like that where I'm gonna
0:46:49embarrass myself but where it doesn't
0:46:50feel like it's just something for CNN to
0:46:52put another counter on the screen for
0:46:54right it's inevitable when something
0:46:55happens in America it's gonna get like
0:46:58hyped to death
0:46:59like whenever the Olympics are in
0:47:00America they're never as good because
0:47:02the Olympics are like this exotic
0:47:03sporting event when I was growing up the
0:47:05Olympics of this amazing thing in
0:47:07countries you could never dream of
0:47:08visiting and you can't even say their
0:47:10names properly and then whenever the
0:47:12Olympics goes to America it's just like
0:47:14their Super Bowl you know the Super Bowl
0:47:18of athletics comes a bit rubbish because
0:47:20as much as I love America and Americans
0:47:23they kind of you know they have this way
0:47:26about things they have this way about
0:47:29them right that's probably the best way
0:47:30to say it Brady so they even turned the
0:47:33Eclipse into like the Super Bowl of
0:47:35astronomy it had to be the eclipse of
0:47:38the century this is the world champion
0:47:40of eclipses it's like it's you know it's
0:47:43just it's a it's an eclipse I know you
0:47:45haven't heard one for a while and you're
0:47:46right to want to go out and watch it but
0:47:48yeah calm down calm down I'm feeling
0:47:52like the inevitable name of this podcast
0:47:53should be eclipse of the century perhaps
0:47:56that's a bit too mean like that's gonna
0:47:59set terrible expectations for the
0:48:01listeners if they see eclipses of the
0:48:03century are you telling me that the Nile
0:48:05and gay flag has been sent into space
0:48:08and you're gonna make this podcast name
0:48:10about the eclipse you know what it is
0:48:12actually
0:48:12it's the podcast of the century that's
0:48:14what it is I think you've called it
0:48:16because us sending that flag into space
0:48:18was pretty amazing and there's more good
0:48:20stuff to come podcast of the century it
0:48:22is there we go then
0:48:25by the way I just wanted to bring up a
0:48:27little quick thing we talked in the last
0:48:29episode about positioning your icons on
0:48:31your iPhone because I've now got this
0:48:32massive screen where the plus the plus
0:48:35screen yet so I was talking to my wife
0:48:37about and I saying how I'm gonna move
0:48:38Twitter and all my regularly used icons
0:48:40down lower so I can get to them more
0:48:42easily and I said you know and then you
0:48:44know our muscle memory where they are
0:48:45eventually and everything will be back
0:48:47to normal and she told me something she
0:48:49does that I didn't know she did and is
0:48:52really interesting and I thought you
0:48:54would find interesting and that is every
0:48:57few days or so she moves her icons for
0:49:00things she gets a little bit addicted to
0:49:02like Twitter and Instagram so they're
0:49:04not always in the same place so she
0:49:06doesn't get that muscle memory so she
0:49:08actually thinks about it like do I
0:49:09really want to open Twitter yet again do
0:49:11I really want to browse Instagram like
0:49:14to actually put a barrier to finding it
0:49:16to stop her opening it all the time out
0:49:18of force of habit and I found that I
0:49:19didn't know she did it and I found it
0:49:21fascinating and I thought it was a
0:49:22really clever idea that is a really
0:49:24great idea yeah it's a really
0:49:25interesting idea because I mean you know
0:49:27my attack to this is to take everything
0:49:31off my phone except the absolute bare
0:49:33minimum of what I need probably I think
0:49:36you would say definitely to a level at
0:49:38which it inconveniences the other people
0:49:40who have to interact with me yes yes
0:49:43from Brady there without a doubt because
0:49:45I make my phone as inert an object as
0:49:49possible that does his few functions
0:49:50it's possible right that shall we say is
0:49:54not a strategy for everyone that's like
0:49:56that's one step away from cutting off
0:49:57your fingers to stop yourself using a
0:49:59pepper what I feel is is the inevitable
0:50:02is it's like this is how it starts and
0:50:04it ends in a cabin in the woods with no
0:50:06Wi-Fi right like that's we all know
0:50:08that's where this is this is inevitably
0:50:10going but so I actually think this is
0:50:13this is a kind of brilliant strategy for
0:50:17a much less extreme take on it like you
0:50:20still want to have these things on your
0:50:23phone because they're useful and because
0:50:24you like them and because they bring
0:50:26entertainment into your life but it is
0:50:29so easy to mindlessly just go to them
0:50:34and to not really to have that like
0:50:36lizard part of your brain way
0:50:38up and think what's on Twitter and it
0:50:39just goes and it looks and you don't
0:50:40quite consciously realize what's
0:50:42happening like that's a really great
0:50:44strategy and I think that's a really
0:50:46great option for you want to stay
0:50:49connected to the world like a normal
0:50:51person but still break that automatic
0:50:55reflex that you get over time and let's
0:50:58be honest is also a thing that many of
0:51:00these companies who want you to have
0:51:02their apps on your phone like they
0:51:04intentionally try to get you
0:51:07Skinner boxed into that habit of just
0:51:10opening kind of thoughtlessly so you you
0:51:12are you do have a bit of an antagonist
0:51:14in the form of some of those apps I
0:51:16think that's a really great idea is it a
0:51:17strategy that you're going to adopt I
0:51:19don't know yeah I don't know I'm a bit
0:51:21of a mess with my phone at the moment
0:51:22like I've repositioned the icons and I'm
0:51:24not happy and I'm not happy with my
0:51:26phone life at the moment and I don't
0:51:29want to share it up because I think it's
0:51:31a bit of a boring thing to talk about
0:51:32repeatedly I've just I haven't found a
0:51:34happy place with my new phone and my
0:51:36icon positioning and you think this is a
0:51:38boring topic I'll tell you no no
0:51:41actually like for me I kind of think it
0:51:44is a bit of a boring topic but for some
0:51:47reason it's it's a topic that lots of
0:51:48people can't move away from people love
0:51:50this topic in a way that I find is
0:51:53weirdly intense and obsessive but I am
0:51:55with you 100% about this again simply
0:51:58because I'm running the beta on my phone
0:51:59so it changed a bunch of things about
0:52:01how and where different apps need to be
0:52:04but I'm with you like I am it I'm at a
0:52:06place where I feel veryuncertain with
0:52:08where different apps go and how
0:52:10everything is going to be arranged you
0:52:11know you know how when your house isn't
0:52:12quite right like you haven't unpacked
0:52:14boxes or a room is messy and stuff and
0:52:16like you've got other things to do but
0:52:18just knowing that room is messy is
0:52:20messing your mind I'm having that about
0:52:22my phone at the moment every time I
0:52:23think about my phone I just feel this
0:52:25like I'm really unhappy because I know
0:52:26it's it's not serving me well and the
0:52:29screens too big I may have made a
0:52:30mistake
0:52:31I don't know the screen is definitely
0:52:33too big like this is an example of with
0:52:35a screen being too big causing me a
0:52:36problem right mm-hmm
0:52:38when you make a snapchat video like you
0:52:41hold down the button to make the video
0:52:44and to release the button like on screen
0:52:47the on screen video button like
0:52:49to take your thumb off ur involves
0:52:51having to change your grip on the phone
0:52:53because your thumb holding the video
0:52:54button is part of your grip on the phone
0:52:56so when you lift that thumb off the
0:52:59screen and you're using one hand right
0:53:02you no longer have the same grip on the
0:53:04phone so the phone kind of drops and
0:53:06slips and moves and that is the last
0:53:08half a second of your snapchat video
0:53:10which you then can't edit because you
0:53:11can't add up snapchat videos now so
0:53:13every snapchat video I make ends with
0:53:15the camera - suddenly jerking for half a
0:53:18second as I lift my thumb off the video
0:53:20right it's just little things like that
0:53:22it's annoying and these devices are with
0:53:23us all the time and it's like a thing
0:53:26that you have to deal with with all day
0:53:27long I'm with you 100% to better that
0:53:29it's it's like having part of your house
0:53:31not in order
0:53:32yeah it's worse than that because it's a
0:53:34thing that you end up opening and
0:53:35looking at so many times I should have
0:53:38stuck with the small phone because the
0:53:39other thing I thought would happen in my
0:53:40head I thought having this big phone
0:53:42would give me a battery that would last
0:53:44for weeks I think I fell into the hype
0:53:46that you get better battery life hmm so
0:53:48still when I look down at my battery and
0:53:49yet again I'm in the red I'm like what I
0:53:52thought I've got this big ginormous
0:53:53phone I'd have more battery life and
0:53:55still my batteries always buddy empty
0:53:57God's sake I thought at least I was
0:54:00buying more battery life ya know you're
0:54:02never winning this race it's absolutely
0:54:04frustrating gray I'm calling it yeah end
0:54:07of phone conversation done if this is
0:54:08gonna be the podcast of the century we
0:54:10can't have this much phone talk in it so
0:54:13gray I think it's fitting that you
0:54:15decided to call this episode podcast of
0:54:17the century mm-hmm because I have
0:54:19launched a new podcast I thought maybe
0:54:25you were paying me in an immense
0:54:26compliment I swear I didn't set that up
0:54:31that was entirely your idea to call it
0:54:32podcast and century you did not set that
0:54:34up that was redoing that yeah so you
0:54:36have started you've launched a new
0:54:39podcast Brady and yep if I may say so my
0:54:42own personal experience of this is it's
0:54:44about time I feel like ever since we did
0:54:48the first 10 episodes and then hello
0:54:51internet has continued on since then I
0:54:54have been waiting it felt just so so
0:54:57inevitable that you would launch a
0:55:00podcast at some point and I would
0:55:02mention this to you
0:55:03over the years and you would say no no
0:55:06I'm too busy I can't possibly do a
0:55:08podcast I would say that's okay I'll
0:55:10just wait I'll wait for the day that
0:55:12inevitably occurs
0:55:14well now it's here it's finally here
0:55:15Brady it is here and I have to say of
0:55:17all the people who have been encouraging
0:55:19me to do it
0:55:20bordering on pressuring me to do it gray
0:55:23has been top of the list it's something
0:55:25you've really been encouraging me to do
0:55:26for a long time oh yeah so if you think
0:55:28that like I've sticked off behind Gray's
0:55:30back you couldn't be further from the
0:55:31truth he's forever telling me he thought
0:55:33it was something I should do and has
0:55:35been very encouraging and helpful so
0:55:36Brady do you want to pitch the people on
0:55:38what your podcast is about well before I
0:55:40tell you tell you about and the name of
0:55:42it I have to quickly tell you about my
0:55:44co-host or vice host yeah what's his
0:55:47name his name is Tim no and it's not a
0:55:50joke it's not a joke as his real name
0:55:52he's one of my best friends and has been
0:55:54for a very long time he lives in
0:55:55Australia and his real name is Tim so
0:55:58while this podcast has no you know links
0:56:02with hello Internet it's just it's just
0:56:03a separate thing that I'm doing
0:56:05occasionally in my spare time the
0:56:07co-host is code Tim and this has caused
0:56:09much amusement so there you go you can
0:56:12make what you will of that it's a
0:56:14podcast I'm doing with my friend Tim and
0:56:16the name of it is the unmade podcast and
0:56:22the pitch of it is so far you never know
0:56:25what direction of podcast is gonna end
0:56:27up going no but so far the idea is in
0:56:29each episode we discuss ideas for
0:56:33podcasts that would be fun to make and
0:56:35then we talk about each other's ideas
0:56:36and whether we think they're good ideas
0:56:38or bad ideas and it's supposed to be
0:56:39funny so sometimes it's a serious idea
0:56:42more often than not there's silly ideas
0:56:44and we each pitch two ideas to each
0:56:46other per episode and then we just chat
0:56:48about them and joke around and see where
0:56:51the conversation goes and it's been
0:56:53quite good fun to make so unmade podcast
0:56:55because their podcasts that will
0:56:57probably always be unmade it's a tea is
0:57:00Brady it's an eternal teas for these
0:57:02podcasts that people are going to want
0:57:03can I do a little bit of a spoiler for
0:57:05the first episode just related to this
0:57:07you can the first episode came out
0:57:09before we're recording so hopefully some
0:57:12people have actually listened to it yeah
0:57:13it came
0:57:13but yesterday day before yesterday when
0:57:16ya recording timeline here hmm so I've
0:57:18listened to the first episode and the
0:57:20t's think about I actually got a preview
0:57:21I got to hurt here in early and early
0:57:23cut you did you had exclusive first
0:57:26listen I felt very privileged with that
0:57:27you actually listened to it before it
0:57:29was properly cut down to size they say
0:57:31you heard it when it was still a little
0:57:32bit ugly but that's okay I didn't think
0:57:34it was ugly
0:57:35no but there's a funny thing here so the
0:57:37segment that you have at the very end is
0:57:39where your co-host suggests the idea of
0:57:42a Groundhog Day podcast in which you
0:57:44were going to discuss Groundhog Day
0:57:46every day mm-hmm and and I told you at
0:57:51the time that's a hilarious topic
0:57:53because it's not viously such a terrible
0:57:55idea
0:57:55mm-hmm but I have to listen to that show
0:57:57it's one of these things like that idea
0:57:58keeps haunting me I keep thinking about
0:58:01the Groundhog Day podcast and I feel
0:58:04like there is nothing more that I want
0:58:06than to hear you do a Groundhog Day Park
0:58:09like I can't let this idea go yeah and I
0:58:12feel like this is what the podcast maybe
0:58:14is just getting teased about shows that
0:58:19are not going to be made because it
0:58:21would be crazy for you to make the
0:58:22Groundhog Day podcast yeah but I I
0:58:24cannot let it go I keep coming back to
0:58:26this idea of every day you're doing a
0:58:28podcast about the movie Groundhog Day
0:58:30it's fantastic say another idea that
0:58:34came up in that first episode was one
0:58:37that I suggested called I called a
0:58:38podcast ology and every episode you
0:58:40discuss a different ology so it could be
0:58:42biology or proctology or entomology and
0:58:46that sort of thing and it was more of a
0:58:48serious idea we joked around about it
0:58:49was a serious idea and seriously the
0:58:51number of people who've contacted me
0:58:53saying like yeah we like the unmade
0:58:55podcast ready but whatever you do you
0:58:57have to start that ology one that's one
0:58:59we really want to hear so I think you're
0:59:01right I think like as we throw these
0:59:03ideas around we're gonna get a lot of
0:59:05people saying that's actually probably a
0:59:07podcast you should make which is like
0:59:09maybe it's nice that they think that I
0:59:10have to say though like to be a bit
0:59:12better about it
0:59:13mmm obviously I think about the episodes
0:59:16beforehand and think I'll what ideas am
0:59:17I gonna have and I always try I want
0:59:19them to be funny so I always come up
0:59:20with some ridiculous stupid idea that
0:59:22could never be a podcast and I just sit
0:59:24around thinking about it and within an
0:59:26hour
0:59:27I've reshaped it in my head and tweaked
0:59:29it and thought about to a point where I
0:59:30think you know what this actually would
0:59:32be a really good podcast and no matter
0:59:34how stupid the idea is I always end up
0:59:37thinking that is stupid but that should
0:59:39probably get made I'd be pretty good you
0:59:40know I just I'm just realizing now
0:59:43somehow this had not occurred to me
0:59:44before this very moment but it somehow
0:59:46seems inevitable that the person who has
0:59:48so many projects that he runs would end
0:59:52up doing a podcast about an infinite
0:59:56possibility of potential projects that's
0:59:58what happened great when when to
0:59:58what happened great when when to
1:00:00when I were discussing what are we going
1:00:01to do a podcast about we had three or
1:00:03four ideas and we kept changing the idea
1:00:06because each day we thought we had a
1:00:07better idea and it got to a point where
1:00:09I was saying you know all these ideas
1:00:10are so interesting that we're talking
1:00:11about why don't we just make the podcast
1:00:13about all the ideas we're having for a
1:00:15podcast so that's what we're doing I
1:00:17have had a couple of little observations
1:00:19I wanted to share though there's
1:00:20something I wanted to say about it
1:00:21because hello Internet you run the show
1:00:24on hello Internet and you do all the
1:00:25behind-the-scenes stuff and run all the
1:00:27technical stuff and I've actually always
1:00:29been quite oblivious to it so I've had
1:00:31to learn how to do all that stuff cuz
1:00:33I'm running this new one and it has made
1:00:36me realize a few things and it has made
1:00:38me feel like I need to make like a small
1:00:40apology to you because like to make the
1:00:45apology I will first have to admit to a
1:00:47slightly uncharitable thought I had
1:00:48about you mmm-hmm and that was before we
1:00:51started like working together properly
1:00:53and we were just friends and I watched
1:00:55your videos I always thought that you
1:00:57were this really like accurate
1:00:59meticulous guy because your videos are
1:01:01all about you know really good accurate
1:01:03explaining things that are researched
1:01:05and the videos are all so well prepared
1:01:07and well executed so I had this image of
1:01:09you okay and that's where this apology
1:01:11is going okay well when we started
1:01:13working together more and I started
1:01:15having more communication with you but
1:01:16also you started doing like hello
1:01:18internet stuff I would like occasionally
1:01:20find little things like a little typo or
1:01:23something that I thought was a little
1:01:24bit sloppy like a space missing or there
1:01:26should be a you know just little tiny
1:01:28things that I had little details that I
1:01:30thought weren't perfect mm-hmm and I
1:01:32thought you know you know fair enough
1:01:36that's okay I've now realized that when
1:01:40you are doing a podcast and you were
1:01:41doing all this stuff behind the scenes
1:01:43on hello Internet it is such a Fafi job
1:01:47mm-hmm there are so many different
1:01:49little things to do there are so many
1:01:50bowls to keep in the air at once so many
1:01:53little fields and things you have to
1:01:54fill out and bits and pieces to do that
1:01:57those little mistakes that I thought you
1:01:59were making because you just weren't
1:02:00paying attention to detail that was not
1:02:02the case at all there's just too much to
1:02:04do and like it just gets away from you
1:02:06all this stuff really quickly like I'm
1:02:09sure it will become more routine in time
1:02:11but at the moment I'm finding
1:02:13all the stuff you do on the technical
1:02:14side of a podcast is really like I feel
1:02:16like a duck really paddling really fast
1:02:18underwater so all those times when
1:02:20you've made a little mistake here or
1:02:21there in a webpage and I was texting you
1:02:23saying gray I think you need to fix this
1:02:24on that webpage because it doesn't look
1:02:26absolutely perfect I take all that back
1:02:28I now realize what you were doing and
1:02:31you did a very good job so apologies for
1:02:33those thoughts
1:02:35thank you I accept your apology for your
1:02:37silent thoughts all right but now you do
1:02:38see why I made originally like a hundred
1:02:41point here's all the switches you need
1:02:43to flip and all those things that you
1:02:45need to do it is you use the right word
1:02:47it is a remarkably Fafi job with just a
1:02:50like a whole bunch of picky little
1:02:51things that are really easy to forget
1:02:52when you're launching a podcast so now
1:02:55that you are at the helm of your other
1:02:58show this burden of responsibility falls
1:03:01on you as the captain of that show a
1:03:03couple more little observations one is
1:03:05just and this is something that's true
1:03:06for any project but I've just been
1:03:07reminded of it because I haven't started
1:03:09like a new project since objectivity
1:03:12how long has objectivity been running
1:03:14now well over two years somehow that
1:03:16makes me feel really old and it's
1:03:19reminded me how all-consuming and what a
1:03:22narcotic it can be tada
1:03:23do like something new hmm like because
1:03:27the unmade podcast is like it's taken us
1:03:30seriously I'm not joking here it's taken
1:03:31us a year to record a few episodes
1:03:33because we're both so busy so I'm not
1:03:35sure what the future of this podcast is
1:03:37if it's gonna be just a few episodes
1:03:39occasionally or it's gonna be regular at
1:03:41the moment regular looks difficult but
1:03:44maybe it will be I hope it will be but
1:03:45just doing something new and putting
1:03:48something new out there it's really
1:03:49exciting and it's really all consuming
1:03:51and even though like I'm making no money
1:03:54from it and I shouldn't be doing it and
1:03:56I should be like doing all my projects
1:03:58that are like my job right like it just
1:04:00takes up a disproportionate amount of
1:04:02your headspace when you do something new
1:04:04and that's like voluntary because it's
1:04:07such a drug to be creating something new
1:04:09and it's such a nice feeling so I have
1:04:11enjoyed putting something new out just I
1:04:13mean I still enjoy every new episode of
1:04:15Hello internet and every new episode of
1:04:16numberphile and every new episode of
1:04:18everything I do but the whole project
1:04:20being new is like another level up isn't
1:04:22it yeah there is a very very different
1:04:24thing
1:04:24if someone searches back through my
1:04:26Twitter history I think I made a comment
1:04:27exactly along these lines when we
1:04:29launched hello Internet
1:04:31about how it's so exciting and different
1:04:33to launch a new project into the world
1:04:37it's not like anything else it's not
1:04:41like uploading videos to your existing
1:04:42channel it's not like continuing to
1:04:44produce episodes of a thing that you
1:04:45already do this is also why I think that
1:04:48in the world of just being people who
1:04:51have to create things for a living the
1:04:54other side of this is that you do have a
1:04:55kind of siren song of new projects
1:04:58always attracting you away from your
1:05:00current work because of that excitement
1:05:02I'm glad that you're being able to
1:05:03experience that and I'm particularly
1:05:05shocked to realize that it has been two
1:05:07years since you did that with
1:05:09objectivity The Brady in my head is
1:05:11always just spawning new channels
1:05:12constant I think it's getting closer to
1:05:14three years there's like a hundred and
1:05:15twenty other episodes so let's not say
1:05:17that let's just say - let's just say -
1:05:18I'll feel better about that yeah another
1:05:23thing I noticed the idea of this podcast
1:05:24as we've said is just to come up with
1:05:26ideas for podcasts and we usually give
1:05:28them a name and I find this very easy
1:05:30coming up with ideas and giving them a
1:05:33name but do you know what's funny what
1:05:36an incredibly difficult process it was
1:05:38to actually name this podcast it was so
1:05:40difficult like every other idea I have
1:05:42in the show I give it a name like just
1:05:44off the top of my head straight away and
1:05:45just seems like a natural fit and I'm
1:05:47usually pretty happy with it but this
1:05:48was really difficult as you know cuz I
1:05:50was I was lamenting to you coming up
1:05:52with the name you seemed pretty
1:05:53desperate and I message about names it
1:05:56was such a heard show to name the
1:05:58branding of it and the look of it was
1:05:59quite easy cuz I got like really good
1:06:01artists to do it the branding was easy
1:06:02because you didn't do that part yeah and
1:06:04also he did double the branding based on
1:06:07earlier name and then I called him up
1:06:08and said no we're not doing that name so
1:06:09he had to start again but anyway it was
1:06:12very hard to name how did you name hello
1:06:14Internet cuz that was your idea we
1:06:16bounced around ideas a little bit you
1:06:18know forever ago about naming the
1:06:19podcast but it was mainly like we kind
1:06:21of knew that the show wasn't going to be
1:06:23about anything in particular so we had
1:06:25to pick a name that wasn't really
1:06:26anything in particular I'm not sure that
1:06:29hello internet is the best name for this
1:06:32show as it currently exists but it
1:06:34doesn't matter because especially with a
1:06:36show like this one
1:06:38the name just becomes the thing as long
1:06:41as it the name doesn't have some
1:06:43specific meaning then it just becomes
1:06:46what it is hello Internet is the name of
1:06:47this show even if for someone who's a
1:06:50new listener does that name make any
1:06:52sense like it doesn't really but it just
1:06:55is what it is cuz I was having this
1:06:57discussion I was discussing with my wife
1:06:59and I was saying am I worrying too much
1:07:00about the name I said the same thing I
1:07:02said you know the show if the show's
1:07:04good that's what matters and then the
1:07:05name just fits the show yeah without a
1:07:06doubt and I even said to her I mean look
1:07:08at hello Internet that's not a
1:07:09particularly good name and that's become
1:07:10very successful and she said hello Anton
1:07:13it's a really good name and I had never
1:07:15thought of it as a good name before so I
1:07:17think it's just a name I wouldn't say
1:07:19that it's a particularly good name I
1:07:20think it ends up having really good
1:07:22associations for the people who listen
1:07:24to the show because they like the show
1:07:25and then that's the name I think the
1:07:26name only matters if you're trying to
1:07:28really be about a specific thing and
1:07:31capture the audience for that thing they
1:07:35give you were launching a new podcast
1:07:37talking about all of the exciting new
1:07:39economies of scale in outer space and
1:07:42you wanted people who are really into
1:07:43that kind of thing to listen to your
1:07:44show then you need to have a title that
1:07:46describes what that show is about you
1:07:49know mining for cheaper and outer space
1:07:52podcast show right that's the name you
1:07:54need so that people know what it
1:07:55actually is but I think for for these
1:07:57cut like for two dudes talking kinds of
1:07:59shows it doesn't really matter what the
1:08:00name I think I'm just running through my
1:08:03mental list of the shows that I listen
1:08:05to that are you know maybe ostensibly
1:08:07about a thing or ostensibly have a
1:08:09format but are really just about liking
1:08:11who the hosts are none of those names
1:08:13really matter none of them are really
1:08:14descriptive about what the show is and
1:08:16it doesn't make any difference because
1:08:17you're listening for the people you're
1:08:19not listening for the specific yeah
1:08:23content the unmade podcast does have a
1:08:25bit more of a format than Halloween
1:08:26snare though it does but ultimately I
1:08:29like from having listened to the first
1:08:30episode and of course we know better
1:08:32than anybody like shows aren't what they
1:08:34start as necessarily they grow and they
1:08:36become their own thing it has more of a
1:08:39format but ultimately again it that is a
1:08:42show that at least from the first
1:08:44episode strikes me as very much as it is
1:08:46the conversation between the two of you
1:08:48is the thing
1:08:50which is also why like when we were
1:08:51talking on iMessage I was in the same
1:08:53camp as your wife of you need to pick a
1:08:55name but the name is not going to make
1:08:57or break the show the content is the
1:08:59thing that's going to do that mm-hmm I'd
1:09:01like to ask you to because I have been
1:09:04expectant and sort of harassing you
1:09:06about when are you going to finally do a
1:09:08podcast yeah is there something that
1:09:11made this finally happened now as
1:09:14opposed to a year ago like is there a
1:09:16series of events that brought this into
1:09:17being or was it something that you just
1:09:19decided now was the time that you you
1:09:22wanted to do this basically what took so
1:09:24long we started a year ago I'm not
1:09:26joking it actually I looked at the day
1:09:27and I think the first one we recorded
1:09:29was actually a year ago this month hmm
1:09:31and just recently we recorded our third
1:09:34episode that we're happy with I didn't
1:09:37want to release a podcast like one
1:09:39episode and then never released another
1:09:40one I wanted to have three made mm-hmm
1:09:43so that even if people aren't that into
1:09:44it so it doesn't become a thing I could
1:09:46release three like a trilogy mmm
1:09:48so I didn't want to release it until I
1:09:50had made three and at the very least so
1:09:53now that there's three I feel like okay
1:09:54now let's see what people think and if
1:09:56they like it we'll make more and if they
1:09:58don't like it well or at least three and
1:10:00people can enjoy those three episodes as
1:10:02a thing that I did once with my mate
1:10:04mm-hmm that's really what the tipping
1:10:06point was and also to get to a point
1:10:08where I was thinking if I don't do this
1:10:10I'll never do it I had someone make a
1:10:12youtube video recently that was of
1:10:14something I'd been planning to do for
1:10:15about two years and I could have done
1:10:17two years ago and I hadn't and they
1:10:19released a video and I was like you
1:10:22can't just sit on stuff you idiot yeah
1:10:24if you want to do things do things maybe
1:10:26that catalyzed me to in some way I'm not
1:10:27sure I'm gonna think come on do crap
1:10:30Brady so so we've put it out there yeah
1:10:34because you certainly don't do enough as
1:10:36it is you better get off your body for
1:10:38some more well I'm gonna see what
1:10:39happens but thank you for letting me
1:10:41discuss it in such depth here and how
1:10:43their internet oh yeah but I'm very
1:10:45happy that it's out there and and I
1:10:46think people should go listen go give it
1:10:48a try yeah unmade dot FM and may FM
1:10:52that's right and that's as good a jump
1:10:53off point is anyway and that's got all
1:10:54the links and it's I think you can
1:10:56search for it now on some of the usual
1:10:58places so don't like stop listening to
1:11:00hello internet now but maybe at the end
1:11:02of the show go and check it out
1:11:04if you've got an idea something you want
1:11:07to do in business or maybe just for fun
1:11:09you're almost certainly gonna need a web
1:11:11domain it could be a classic with
1:11:13something like dot-com or.net or maybe
1:11:16dot F M for a podcast or you might want
1:11:19something zany like dot dog for that new
1:11:22pet walking business dot poker for that
1:11:24card sharp consultancy or dot space for
1:11:27your new asteroid mining enterprise
1:11:29whatever your grand plan don't sit
1:11:31around waiting for someone else to get
1:11:33all the best names go to Harvard calm
1:11:35and reserved one right now I've been
1:11:38using hover quite a bit over the last
1:11:40week launching a new podcast and I have
1:11:42to say I've yet again been super
1:11:44impressed by what a pleasure it is to
1:11:47use super easy to search for what's
1:11:49available and then buying the name all
1:11:51for yourself is done in just a few
1:11:53clicks from there everything else you
1:11:56might want to do managing the domains is
1:11:58so smooth and and this is me talking
1:12:01it's idiot-proof I've been able to
1:12:04divert domains I've reserved other sites
1:12:07or link them with services like
1:12:08Squarespace and just a few super simple
1:12:11and well explained steps they've got
1:12:14this thing called hover connect which
1:12:15does it all for you I wish this had been
1:12:17around like 10 years ago when I was
1:12:19practically crying myself to sleep every
1:12:21night trying to understand domain names
1:12:23hover has all the good stuff you'd want
1:12:26like free who is privacy and great
1:12:28customer support go to hover calm /h I
1:12:33for 10 percent of your first purchase
1:12:37that's hover.com /h I al thanks to hover
1:12:43for supporting this episode and by the
1:12:45way if my Australian English hybrid
1:12:48pronunciation of hover is confusing
1:12:50that's hover for you Americans spell it
1:12:54h o v ER like a hovercraft we have a
1:13:00topic Brady that we want to talk about
1:13:01but I feel like I have just spent this
1:13:05afternoon in preparation for catching up
1:13:08on a whole big story that I was dimly
1:13:10aware existed which is this
1:13:14lawsuit that has been taking place
1:13:16between h3h3 a big popular content
1:13:21creator on YouTube and another much
1:13:24smaller YouTube channel over copyright
1:13:27infringement and I feel like since I
1:13:30have caught up on this thing all at once
1:13:32I'm not really sure how to explain the
1:13:36timeline or how to explain this whole
1:13:38event to the listeners
1:13:40do you've any idea how to how to
1:13:41summarize this for everybody I only
1:13:43found out about it yesterday as well
1:13:44okay you're not up on your YouTube news
1:13:47Brady
1:13:48no no I'm surprisingly bad and stuff
1:13:51like this hmm but obviously this h3h3
1:13:54people made this video really taking the
1:13:57piss out of this other video mm-hm and
1:13:59they showed lots of clips from it but
1:14:01then they also cut to themselves taking
1:14:04the mickey out of it yeah h3h3 would
1:14:06describe this as a reaction video they
1:14:09use that language themselves I thought
1:14:11it was beyond a reaction video myself I
1:14:13think it was more than that like to me a
1:14:15reaction video is just people watching
1:14:16things going Oh gross haha that's funny
1:14:20but they like took this one to pieces
1:14:22like they did a real job on him I mean
1:14:24calling this a reaction video is like
1:14:26calling what I'd let immediate did to
1:14:29style was a reaction video like I think
1:14:31this was more in that genre of like a
1:14:34really harsh critique and it wasn't just
1:14:36like passively reacting to it though I
1:14:39think it was probably quite fair the
1:14:41other guy didn't they went to court
1:14:44hdhd have one there's been this
1:14:46judgement in which the judge has said
1:14:49this was not defamatory because which
1:14:50was also part of the lawsuit and this
1:14:52was fair use this was fair criticism
1:14:54which is being hailed as a big victory
1:14:58for fair use but the judge also said in
1:15:00like a footnote in the judgement while
1:15:02this is fair use I'm not applying this
1:15:05to the other sort of brand of reaction
1:15:08videos where people are more just
1:15:10watching and really is using the content
1:15:12so the judge herself has basically said
1:15:14there are two types of reaction videos
1:15:17those that I think are fair use and
1:15:20those that I'm not commenting on which
1:15:22reading between the lines says I don't
1:15:24think a fair use interesting I feel like
1:15:26I'm I have a
1:15:27a little bit of a different subjective
1:15:29take on it I think if you imagine
1:15:30there's a spectrum and in my head I
1:15:33picked the red letter media thing as an
1:15:34example of one extreme end of the
1:15:36spectrum yes taking out the word react
1:15:38videos for a moment there is this
1:15:40question of you want to make a video
1:15:43about something that somebody else has
1:15:46made they've made a YouTube video or
1:15:48maybe they have made Star Wars whatever
1:15:51it is you want to make a video about a
1:15:53thing that somebody else has made on one
1:15:56end of the spectrum is what I think is
1:15:59the worst and awful is the pure react
1:16:02video which as you were saying before is
1:16:04somebody just puts a webcam on their
1:16:07face and you see them watching a thing
1:16:09they watch the thing in its entirety and
1:16:12the worst of them say very little or
1:16:15just chuckle or make facial expressions
1:16:17and do almost nothing yeah that's one
1:16:20end of the spectrum and then on the
1:16:21other end of the spectrum I think you
1:16:23you have something like red letter media
1:16:24as a perfect example of yeah they have
1:16:27taken Star Wars they've used an enormous
1:16:29amount of footage from it but they have
1:16:31essentially made an entirely brand-new
1:16:34thing yes that and they're like that is
1:16:37the clearest case of fair use that can
1:16:39possibly exist and then the react the
1:16:42pure react video is the absolute worst
1:16:46use case that there possibly is yeah and
1:16:49something like what h3h3 made is in
1:16:53between those two extremes it's not red
1:16:55letter media but it's also not them just
1:16:57filming their faces doing nothing
1:16:59my personal subjective take is that it's
1:17:02closer to the pure reaction video than
1:17:06it is to the red letter media end of
1:17:09that spectrum hmm but ultimately that is
1:17:12a subjective call like if I was a judge
1:17:15I would say I would say what they did
1:17:18was fair use but it feels to me like
1:17:21it's much closer to the pure react end
1:17:23of the spectrum where it's like if we
1:17:25turn this dial down a lot more then it
1:17:29starts becoming a little bit of a gray
1:17:30area that at least that's that's my
1:17:32particular feel for it
1:17:34I mean I agree there is like this
1:17:35blurred spectrum and I think your two
1:17:38extreme ends are correct
1:17:39I watched the h3h
1:17:41a video that caused the whole kerfuffle
1:17:43hmm and I thought you know I think he's
1:17:46sued because they were taking the piss
1:17:47out of him and if they'd said this was a
1:17:48magnificent video mm-hmm he wouldn't
1:17:50have sued so really he got he's knows
1:17:52how to join but the thing I think
1:17:54decided at and I think it's kind of what
1:17:56the judge said as well was does this
1:17:59video become like a replacement or
1:18:02substitute for watching the original
1:18:04like if you'd liked this guy what's his
1:18:06name who's or whatever his name is if
1:18:08you'd liked this guy who made the
1:18:09original video and you liked his stuff
1:18:11could you have gone on to h3h3 and watch
1:18:14that instead to replace the experience
1:18:17and certainly you couldn't do that
1:18:18because they chopped it to pieces they
1:18:20were stopping at all the time they were
1:18:22belittling it you know you wouldn't get
1:18:25the same experience whereas if you just
1:18:27played the video and put yourself down
1:18:29in the bottom corner pulling faces and
1:18:31going whoa
1:18:32then you have replaced the experience
1:18:34you don't have to watch both it's funny
1:18:36that you pick that up because I actually
1:18:37took down the exact quote that the judge
1:18:40wrote because I thought this is an
1:18:41interesting part of it so again h3h3
1:18:44took this person's video they played
1:18:47clips of it paused it then talked about
1:18:50what had just happened on screen you
1:18:51know and played clips of it right there
1:18:53and they're making fun of and commenting
1:18:54on the video and again like mock Regan
1:18:57and commentary is exactly what the whole
1:18:59idea of fair use is for like you're
1:19:01commenting on a thing so the quote from
1:19:03the judge is because the Cline h3h3
1:19:06video does not offer a substitute for
1:19:10the original hmm it does not substitute
1:19:12a market that properly belongs to the
1:19:15copyright holder yeah so like we have
1:19:17discussed on previous shows there's also
1:19:19this idea with fair use of have you
1:19:22taken away the markets that the original
1:19:25thing was created for like God are you
1:19:28substituting the thing and what I think
1:19:32is really interesting is though I
1:19:33watched the h3h3 video making fun of
1:19:36this guy and they're funny like they're
1:19:38very likeable and they do a good job of
1:19:41ripping apart this guy's thing but when
1:19:43I watched it what I thought is I want to
1:19:44go now find the original video and I
1:19:47want to watch that because partly what I
1:19:50was curious is it's very hard to tell
1:19:51when you're watching someone who's cut
1:19:53clips
1:19:53a thing how much of the thing is missing
1:19:56right now like how much is this is clips
1:19:58versus how much of it is the original
1:20:00thing so I went back and I watched the
1:20:01original video mm-hmm and it's hard to
1:20:03say I'd love to see someone actually do
1:20:05a little timeline but I feel like they
1:20:07probably used 70% of the original thing
1:20:12and yet it's interesting cuz I was like
1:20:15I'm looking at this judge's decision and
1:20:17I agree like it does not substitute for
1:20:19the original but I think what is
1:20:21crossing my mind is it's almost like
1:20:24YouTube is creating a new concept in the
1:20:27world which is like the idea of fair use
1:20:30was originally created for this idea of
1:20:32like if you watch the red letter media
1:20:34review of Star Wars does that substitute
1:20:36for watching the Star Wars movie itself
1:20:38obviously not right because they're two
1:20:40totally different experiences and
1:20:42watching the h3h3 video I totally agree
1:20:44with the judge like it doesn't
1:20:46substitute the original markets that
1:20:49belongs to the original copyright holder
1:20:51like if you like that guy's videos
1:20:52watching h3h3 is nothing like watching
1:20:55his videos without their commentary
1:20:58they're two totally different things
1:20:59yeah but there is this idea that's
1:21:02creeping into my head that watching the
1:21:04h3h3 video it doesn't substitute for the
1:21:08original but it does obviate the need to
1:21:13watch the original hmmm because I was
1:21:15just aware of watching the original one
1:21:17it's like I feel I have totally seen
1:21:19this yeah yeah it doesn't substitute but
1:21:23it does kind of remove something because
1:21:26I've only just been think about this
1:21:27this afternoon I'm not saying they're
1:21:28like oh that so the case should have
1:21:30been decided in a different way like I
1:21:31completely agree with the way the case
1:21:32was decided and thank God for everybody
1:21:35on YouTube but it was decided this way
1:21:36hmmm but I just keep I have the little
1:21:39wedge in my mind that I keep thinking
1:21:40there is this idea that this this
1:21:42concept of fair use was written in a
1:21:44very different environment than it is
1:21:47being applied now and it's like I feel
1:21:51like there's that there's an additional
1:21:52subtlety to the idea of substitution as
1:21:57a test for fair use that is being pulled
1:22:00out by this case in my mind because I
1:22:03really do think that the h3h3 video
1:22:06obviates the need to watch the original
1:22:09which is a new concept in the world at
1:22:12least that's how it feels to me this
1:22:14finding as well that's being hired by
1:22:16youtubers everywhere as a really good
1:22:17thing for them could come back to bite
1:22:19them on the backside because if all your
1:22:22mail on lines and other video stealing
1:22:25freebooters of the world can turn this
1:22:27to their advantage
1:22:28suddenly you know all your best YouTube
1:22:31videos are going to end up on the mail
1:22:33online website and they're gonna say oh
1:22:34no it's that's you know fair use or
1:22:36we're not taking your market away
1:22:37because we have a whole different
1:22:38demographic or right right taking your
1:22:41market away because we've made some
1:22:42changes to it that you weren't willing
1:22:44to make like we made it short we're
1:22:46catering to people who like short
1:22:4845-second clips you're catering to
1:22:50people who like 15-minute in depth
1:22:53science things like it does open a door
1:22:55that people may think twice about later
1:22:59I completely agree and the thing that I
1:23:01keep thinking of is take the kinds of
1:23:03videos that we make like educational
1:23:04videos there's this whole world of
1:23:07YouTube that I'm just not really
1:23:08comfortable with which is this kind of
1:23:10area that is is it's not the pure react
1:23:12videos but it's sort of that where
1:23:14somebody takes somebody else's video and
1:23:17just plays most of it but pauses it and
1:23:20then talks and then plays most of it and
1:23:22pauses it and talks like it's very
1:23:23parasitic isn't it I mean this guy who
1:23:25made the video that got which I didn't
1:23:27think was very good but he he made a lot
1:23:29of effort and he made a creation and
1:23:31these people didn't really create much
1:23:33they just sat there and watched it and
1:23:35talked about it and you could say well
1:23:36their creation was their wit and their
1:23:38intellect and their all their satire
1:23:39they brought to it but I still think one
1:23:41person has like you know built the
1:23:44pyramid and the other person has just
1:23:45said your pyramids crap mm-hmm and
1:23:48they're both getting the same reward as
1:23:49if they both built a pyramid mm-hmm
1:23:52there is definitely something to that
1:23:54and I'm aware that this world of YouTube
1:23:56where people play other people's videos
1:23:58pause comment and continue to play and
1:24:01pause comment again I'm not a I'm not a
1:24:03judge here I'm not like the god of
1:24:04copyright but my feeling is if you use
1:24:07100% of the other person's video and
1:24:10only do the pause play pause I feel like
1:24:15for me personally I would not rule that
1:24:17as fair
1:24:18which is why in my head the h3h3 video
1:24:21it almost sets like the limit for what
1:24:25is it that I would consider is fair use
1:24:27but is getting very close to the edge of
1:24:31what is not fair use because I feel like
1:24:33if you watch their video and you watch
1:24:35the original there's so much of the
1:24:38original in there and they're playing it
1:24:40all in chronological order and just
1:24:42pausing and commenting they can such an
1:24:45interesting legal case but it is it is
1:24:47like it's setting a minimum bar of what
1:24:50do I agree with but I feel like you're
1:24:52coming real close to the edge of what is
1:24:56actually the fair use and and I could
1:24:57see a lot of people getting upset when
1:25:00like you said other people can start
1:25:02using big big chunks of their video and
1:25:05and playing the game of how little
1:25:08commentary can we possibly add while
1:25:10still considering this to be fair use
1:25:12and it's like oh we haven't substituted
1:25:15for your market because watching our
1:25:17video with our comments is not the same
1:25:19as watching your video but that's where
1:25:22I mean like I feel like I have this idea
1:25:24that there's like an additional concept
1:25:26here with fair use in the internet world
1:25:29that needs some exploration and I don't
1:25:31even know what directions that
1:25:32exploration would take there is one
1:25:35thing I will say that I think is the
1:25:36unambiguous great part about this case
1:25:39so like well the copyright part is a bit
1:25:42like ooh I'm happy about it but it's a
1:25:44bit of a less certain that it's going to
1:25:47be great for youtubers kind of thing the
1:25:50part that I do think is fantastic is is
1:25:52the part of the case which is about
1:25:53defamation and that is the thing that
1:25:56could have been really bad for all
1:25:57youtubers where the lawsuit it seems
1:26:01like a big part of it was the idea that
1:26:03they aren't just commenting on the other
1:26:06guy's video they're making fun of him
1:26:09yeah and then it's it's like does making
1:26:11fun of someone on the Internet is this
1:26:14going to be an example that we can say
1:26:16here is the bar where we set what
1:26:18defamation is and that defamation is
1:26:22making fun of someone's parkour skills
1:26:24on the Internet right like is that
1:26:26defamation or saying that like the
1:26:29treatment of characters in his video is
1:26:31terrible
1:26:32like is that defamation now the judge
1:26:35had some funny language that they go
1:26:36over in their video about how it's like
1:26:37it is so clearly not defamation to make
1:26:41fun of someone on the Internet and that
1:26:44is a door that I'm very glad was more
1:26:47clearly closed in this case we haven't
1:26:49opened the door wider to what is the
1:26:52minimum bar for being able to sue
1:26:54someone for defamation because if this
1:26:57video was defamatory then it's like we
1:27:01have opened a Pandora's box of crazy for
1:27:03for what is acceptable or what is not
1:27:05acceptable content on the internet so
1:27:07that to me is is the best and the
1:27:09clearest wind out of this case by far so
1:27:11great another youtubey thing which has
1:27:14been in my life the last few days is
1:27:17this thing where YouTube are flagging
1:27:19videos that they think unsuitable for
1:27:22full advertising though automatically if
1:27:24this is done automatically
1:27:25videos are flagged as potentially being
1:27:28unsuitable for certain advertisers so
1:27:30they'll serve no advertising or very
1:27:33limited advertising against it I feel
1:27:35like there was a an asteroid called the
1:27:38ad pocalypse which crossed the sky of
1:27:42our YouTube planets and it is forever
1:27:44continuing to rain down chunks of it
1:27:47upon the earth this is yet another chunk
1:27:49of this is YouTube fairly recently in
1:27:54introducing some AI machine learning
1:27:57BOTS that are trying to scan the video
1:28:00for content and automatically determine
1:28:02advertiser friendliness or not I mean
1:28:04I've got a lot of videos on YouTube as
1:28:06you know and I haven't been particularly
1:28:09affected by this but in the last few
1:28:10days I've just noticed on a few of my
1:28:12lesser channels I had a whole bunch of
1:28:15videos flagged for her did you get a
1:28:17notification about them being flagged or
1:28:19did you manually look I manually looked
1:28:21well okay so I went had a look and I
1:28:23found some and I can sort of see why
1:28:25some of them maybe were flagged
1:28:27automatically because of the headline
1:28:29like I'll give you a give you an example
1:28:30of some that were flagged I did one
1:28:32about viagra which is actually about a
1:28:35chemistry of how viagra works there's no
1:28:37sexual content it is literally about
1:28:39chemistry do you say what the purpose of
1:28:42Viagra is is it hinted at in a playful
1:28:44manner hardly at all no
1:28:46in a way that's unsuitable okay another
1:28:47one called making nanoparticles in
1:28:49supercritical water right which is a
1:28:51really boring science II thing there was
1:28:54one that got flagged which has kind of
1:28:56amused me because it was one that it was
1:28:58a funny film that was unlisted that
1:29:00Destin and I made years ago called in
1:29:02the YouTube Mossad room because they
1:29:04have a Mossad room for staff in YouTube
1:29:05and we made a funny video pretending
1:29:07that I was giving Destin the message and
1:29:09we were being secretly that's wildly
1:29:13inappropriate for work however but yeah
1:29:14I remember that one anyway I don't care
1:29:17it got flagged another one's just called
1:29:19Subutai mole and asthma again you know
1:29:22just a technical video about how a
1:29:23certain chemical is used to treat asthma
1:29:25and then on my second numberphile
1:29:28channel where I have extras my big
1:29:30channels this doesn't seem to have
1:29:31happened on but on my secondary
1:29:33numberphile channel called numberphile -
1:29:35I had some extra footage for this big
1:29:38video I did about derangements which are
1:29:40as mathematical thing liked arrangements
1:29:43are like permutations and it's just a
1:29:44boring mathematical thing and this video
1:29:46was called derangement extra footage on
1:29:50numberphile and you can ask for a manual
1:29:53review so I asked for manual reviews on
1:29:56all of these videos I don't think I did
1:29:57on the message one but I asked for a
1:29:59manual review on all of them and of all
1:30:01of them
1:30:02the derangement one within two seconds
1:30:05of watching her it's James grime with a
1:30:07piece of brown paper doing math
1:30:09equations talking about these things
1:30:12called arrangements and permutations and
1:30:13arranging cards in certain order and so
1:30:16while we've been talking I have got an
1:30:19email back from YouTube saying hi
1:30:22numberphile - after manually reviewing
1:30:25your video we've confirmed that it isn't
1:30:29suitable for all advertisers Wow as a
1:30:32result it will continue to run limited
1:30:35or no ads so they give a reason I use it
1:30:37too boring for most advertisers is that
1:30:39the reason is that's gonna shut down all
1:30:44of numberphile so he confirmed that your
1:30:47video is snore tastic and advertisers
1:30:49are uninterested he's quiet
1:30:51you know if you don't like mathematics
1:30:53okay but there is no way that it is
1:30:56unsuitable if this has been manually
1:30:58reviewed
1:30:59I am absolutely flabbergasted
1:31:02I mean it's had 66 thousand views and
1:31:05like it's not gonna make lots and lots
1:31:07of money and this isn't about money
1:31:09you know if they shut down all my videos
1:31:11fair enough you know it's not that it's
1:31:13just that I kind of put a toe in the
1:31:15water here and thought haha that's funny
1:31:16the system's a bit broken I'll go for
1:31:18the manual review right and the manual
1:31:20reviews broken so suddenly I'm thinking
1:31:22hang on what's going on here
1:31:25unless this video is going to take a
1:31:28very dramatic turn at some at some point
1:31:31in I have to admit later on there is a
1:31:33part where he does say n factorial take
1:31:35n factorial over 1 factorial plus in
1:31:37effect or over 2 factorial take n effect
1:31:39whoa whoa calm down well down there
1:31:41Brady I'm kind of a little bit outraged
1:31:45why do you feel outraged because they're
1:31:50now saying they manually review them and
1:31:52they think it's not suitable mm-hmm and
1:31:54that makes me think the manual review
1:31:56like the checks and balances aren't
1:31:58working so your frustration is that the
1:32:01system is broken I don't mind that it
1:32:03got flagged because derangement is a
1:32:04word that I could see could have other
1:32:06meanings right you know that they're
1:32:08concerned about I can see why maybe I
1:32:10mean I don't know why the main video
1:32:12which is also called arrangement on the
1:32:14main channel wasn't flagged maybe
1:32:15numberphile has protected status and
1:32:18it's a some white listed channel and
1:32:20maybe numberphile 2 is seen because it's
1:32:23a smaller channel it hasn't got those
1:32:24protections but I would also just posit
1:32:26here that like when people have
1:32:27conversations about what the YouTube
1:32:29algorithm does or or any of these
1:32:30machine learning systems that there are
1:32:33non human understandable reasons why
1:32:36these things occur that's just a part of
1:32:38the way yeah these systems work is that
1:32:41even if you were able to peer directly
1:32:43into the code there may be no human
1:32:45understandable explanation as to why due
1:32:47to similar videos end up with different
1:32:50results but that is precisely why say a
1:32:54human manual review is a necessary part
1:32:58of the process and it is not encouraging
1:33:00that it does not work no I've had my
1:33:01human manual review and unless yeah like
1:33:03you say unless there's something about
1:33:05that video other than I I'm a little bit
1:33:07I'm a little bit upset about it
1:33:09and like I said I'm not upset cuz of
1:33:11money I'm upset cuz it's wrong yeah well
1:33:13it's a it's upsetting as always with
1:33:15this YouTube stuff because it is a thing
1:33:16upon which like it's it's never about
1:33:19any one video but it is about the system
1:33:22upon which livelihoods depend that's why
1:33:24people always get real nervous when this
1:33:26stuff happens with YouTube so I have a
1:33:29question as someone who has gone through
1:33:30the manual review process hmm is there
1:33:32now a button that you can press that
1:33:34says you would like to appeal the manual
1:33:37review process no it only just says you
1:33:39can find more information about our
1:33:40advertiser friendly guidelines in our
1:33:42Help Center if they're going to have a
1:33:43manual review system at all I feel like
1:33:47it as a subjective experience as a user
1:33:50of YouTube it's incredibly infuriating
1:33:53to press a button that says hey human is
1:33:56going to look at this and you get a form
1:33:58letter back that explains nothing right
1:34:01that's just sent out thousands and
1:34:03thousands of times an hour I'm sure as a
1:34:05content creator the thing that I would
1:34:07want to have happen is when you press
1:34:09the manual review button maybe it comes
1:34:11back with the judgment that you don't
1:34:13want but it should also come back with a
1:34:15time stamp that says like here then a
1:34:18link to the policy that it is deemed
1:34:22that this violates I mean I can see how
1:34:24that would be very time consuming for
1:34:26the five people they've got doing the
1:34:27job but I just don't know what the
1:34:30person did like did the person not watch
1:34:32it did they just look at the headline
1:34:34the same as the algorithm did and think
1:34:36are derangement it must be about mental
1:34:38illness or something what did the manual
1:34:40person do the whole point of the manual
1:34:44process is to understand what the hell
1:34:46is going on like I'm very happy to use
1:34:48machine learning to do a whole bunch of
1:34:51sorting like I understand this like I
1:34:53said it is an intrinsic part of the
1:34:54machine learning that it is not
1:34:55understandable and so then when you're
1:34:57kicking it over into a human the whole
1:35:00benefit of the human side of the system
1:35:02is there is at least the possibility of
1:35:04understanding and and that a reason can
1:35:07be given but that's why a form letter
1:35:09back is frustrating because it's just oh
1:35:12it might as well have been a robot right
1:35:14like for all you know the appeal is just
1:35:16another like it's a peeled app which is
1:35:19doing a different algorithm to take a
1:35:21look at the videos
1:35:22yeah gives you no explanation of what is
1:35:25occurring like it's not unlikely that
1:35:26that's really genuinely possible right
1:35:28that it's just oh it's just a different
1:35:30system that we have and if the two
1:35:31systems agree then we say yes of course
1:35:33it's not friendly to all advertisers or
1:35:35whatever their their language is that
1:35:37they use they have used the word manual
1:35:39which is an interesting word to have
1:35:40chosen I mean what does menu were very
1:35:43meaning it it could just be a clockwork
1:35:45AI right that's that's what it is it's
1:35:47City right it's marbles and it's rubber
1:35:50bands but it's still they built a big
1:35:51machine somewhere that's watching the
1:35:53YouTube videos it's interesting that
1:35:55that you mentioned this because I've
1:35:56been hearing grumbles and grumbles about
1:35:57this this kind of content system or once
1:36:00you can it just seems like YouTube has a
1:36:02very hard time making a correct maneuver
1:36:05and I manually went through a bunch of
1:36:07my videos and I wanted to take a look Oh
1:36:08have I been caught by this because again
1:36:10it seems like people just get surprised
1:36:12like you don't get notifications that a
1:36:14thing has occurred and I look through my
1:36:16videos nothing has been flagged yet but
1:36:19you know who knows maybe I have to keep
1:36:20checking when they update their
1:36:22algorithm but coincidentally literally
1:36:25today as I was putting up the YouTube
1:36:29video for the previous episode that just
1:36:33went live for listeners hello internets
1:36:35number 86 banana republic that episode
1:36:39has the little badge next to it which
1:36:42says this video is not suitable for all
1:36:45advertisers review requested had you put
1:36:49something in the metadata or the
1:36:51description like was there a word in the
1:36:52show notes that would have flagged
1:36:53Tripta sister I mean I mean looking
1:36:55through the show notes there's nothing
1:36:56that I can think of maybe the word
1:36:59pirate we link to the hello Internet
1:37:01pirate flag is perhaps that's be
1:37:05rustling is maybe be rustling is a kind
1:37:07of thing that would scare off
1:37:09advertisers there's a link to Audrey
1:37:11perhaps her cuteness is so great that
1:37:14YouTube advertisers wouldn't want to
1:37:16compete with that kind of thing who
1:37:17knows who knows the reason why it feels
1:37:20kind of ridiculous that a that a podcast
1:37:24has been flagged up into the system I
1:37:26have pressed the manual review button
1:37:29and I can't wait to find out if we make
1:37:32it through the manual process whatever
1:37:34that means
1:37:35for this episode but good luck I don't
1:37:38know I feel like this is all just this
1:37:41endless mess that has come about since
1:37:43the ad pocalypse where YouTube is is
1:37:46trying to do things that are sort of
1:37:48undoable for appeasement reasons that I
1:37:53think might not be super valuable in the
1:37:56first place like it's a complicated
1:37:58unwinnable mass this whole thing it
1:38:01makes content creators really frustrated
1:38:03to not be able to understand why things
1:38:06have been demonetised and your
1:38:08experience of a manual review that is 0%
1:38:11and lightning is not encouraging this
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1:40:12to fracture for supporting the show I
1:40:14think of all the news stories that have
1:40:17affected me mostly over the last week or
1:40:19two mm-hmm it has to be a story about
1:40:21Big Ben which if you're gonna be
1:40:24pedantic is the name of like oh no one
1:40:27cares no don't don't even give in to
1:40:29those people don't just ignore them just
1:40:30move right along Big Ben the tower yeah
1:40:32the big famous clock in London right
1:40:35what everybody thinks of as Big Ben the
1:40:37big famous clock but in fact the story
1:40:38is about Big Ben because it's about the
1:40:40Bell they're doing a big restoration job
1:40:42on the tower which I think it's called
1:40:44the Elizabeth tower that houses Big Ben
1:40:47it's the tower with the clock at the top
1:40:49so they need to do all this renovation
1:40:51and as a result the bells not gonna ring
1:40:55except like for very special occasions
1:40:57like New Year's even stuff like that so
1:40:59they're they're silencing the Bell and I
1:41:01thought fair enough you got to do your
1:41:02work you could you know I can imagine
1:41:03you've got to switch the Bell off and it
1:41:05just suddenly emerged that the Bell is
1:41:08going to be deactivated for like four
1:41:11years
1:41:11mmm-hmm and at first people were like us
1:41:14for years okay and then I think within
1:41:16the course of a day or two people just
1:41:18started saying hang on a second for
1:41:20years and then the politicians have
1:41:23chimed and even the Prime Minister I
1:41:24think has said this seems excessive like
1:41:26does it does it really have to be four
1:41:28years and I agree I think it is
1:41:32absolutely outrageous that you won't be
1:41:35able to hear big ben ring for four years
1:41:37and there's gonna be scaffolding on that
1:41:39tower for ages as well I think this is
1:41:41such an important thing in London you
1:41:43know for tourism and just for the look
1:41:45of London
1:41:46I cannot believe anything can take that
1:41:49long to fix you look at your pair and
1:41:52they get those sink holes in the road
1:41:53and I fixed within twenty minutes and
1:41:55they're gonna take four years to fix a
1:41:58clock like I know it's a difficult job
1:42:00it's an important
1:42:02it's pressures and clocks are hard to
1:42:04fix and this requires expertise but just
1:42:07throw more people at it
1:42:08nothing should take four years nothing
1:42:11should take four years that's a bold
1:42:13statement there we go up the Manhattan
1:42:15Project took four years
1:42:16I checked it actually took four years so
1:42:20they're saying they can go from not
1:42:22having a nuclear bomb to like the
1:42:24nuclear bomb in the same amount of time
1:42:26it takes to fix a clock mm-hmm what well
1:42:29it's a historical repair of the tower I
1:42:32thought was the primary thing this is
1:42:34one of these things where I don't read
1:42:43the mythical man-month right you put a
1:42:44thousand men on it it's going to take 40
1:42:46years to fix it to have the most this is
1:42:52the most famous monument in London if
1:42:54not the world maybe there's only
1:42:55probably two or three more famous
1:42:57monuments in the world do you think
1:42:58that's reasonable to have it so out of
1:43:00commission for four years I don't know I
1:43:03don't know I've been aware of the story
1:43:05because I think being in London somehow
1:43:08I was I've been aware for a really long
1:43:10time that the tower was going to be
1:43:12covered up in scaffolding for a long
1:43:14period of time I don't remember where it
1:43:16was but I feel like I've known this for
1:43:17months and months and months but it has
1:43:19suddenly become a story because it's
1:43:22like people can crystallize around the
1:43:24concept of the bell not ringing which
1:43:26has turned it into a thing and it's
1:43:29happening now it's yeah come the repair
1:43:31job of the century yes it becomes a
1:43:33repair shop of the century but when I
1:43:34when I came back to London from the
1:43:37summer the scaffolding was just going up
1:43:39and I took a picture of it at that time
1:43:41because I knew like oh yes it's going to
1:43:42be a while before the tower is fully
1:43:44uncovered again like this has been this
1:43:46is going to be some big huge job but the
1:43:50four years thing it's just like I don't
1:43:52know because it's hard to say with
1:43:54projects like this what are what are
1:43:55they doing if they are trying to restore
1:43:58the tower so that it can last another
1:44:01hundred years taking four percent of the
1:44:05time to restore the tower doesn't seem
1:44:07like a crazy number to me that would
1:44:10seem quite reasonable if this is a
1:44:12restoration job to last a hundred years
1:44:14now if it is a restoration
1:44:16to last six years then yes there is some
1:44:19horrible bureaucratic problem going on
1:44:21with how long the repairs taken what it
1:44:23is that they're actually doing here all
1:44:24right I don't know with construction
1:44:26projects in particular like I'm also
1:44:28just aware of this in London that I I
1:44:30like to take photographs of some places
1:44:32that I know that are under construction
1:44:33when they're foolish enough to put up a
1:44:34date and I have a few places where I
1:44:36have photographs of the exact same sign
1:44:38as they have changed the date over the
1:44:40years for like opening for the Olympics
1:44:43as opening for 2015 opening 2017 opening
1:44:472080 right and they just keep bumping it
1:44:48back I wouldn't be surprised if once
1:44:51that scaffolding goes up it actually
1:44:52ends up taking them six years or eight
1:44:55years to really do the thing like four
1:44:57years is they're optimistic outcome
1:44:59right now but they're going to discover
1:45:00something in the process of doing the
1:45:01restoration that actually makes it take
1:45:03much longer can you imagine being an
1:45:05American tourist coming to London and
1:45:07Big Ben's covered in scaffolding it's
1:45:09amazing it's like such a problem or what
1:45:11I wonder is they're very good in London
1:45:13about putting up those drawings of the
1:45:15building on the outside of the building
1:45:16and if the thing is it's amazing
1:45:19actually how often you don't necessarily
1:45:21notice there is I think I have a
1:45:23photograph was it seen Paul's Cathedral
1:45:26there was some place where they they put
1:45:28up that kind of scaffolding and from the
1:45:30right view like down the street you'd
1:45:32never know like you wouldn't know yes if
1:45:33you didn't do you never know if it's
1:45:35just the background to you and you see
1:45:36st. Paul's Cathedral the time but if
1:45:38you've come just to take a photo of Big
1:45:40Ben which is what most people come to
1:45:41London to do you're gonna notice well
1:45:43people come to London to have fun in
1:45:45Trafalgar Square
1:45:46that's the primary reason that they they
1:45:48come here and I think we've discussed
1:45:50before there are the danger to London's
1:45:52tourism around that particular tourist
1:45:55attraction is is much much worse than
1:45:57this I only mentioned the construction
1:45:59around Big Bend because you know there
1:46:01is going to be some nonzero number of
1:46:03tourists who see the scaffolding around
1:46:05it with the drawing of the tower on it
1:46:07who think that is the thing like that
1:46:09someone is going to have that experience
1:46:11that's definitely going to put the
1:46:14drawing on it day oh oh they have to if
1:46:17they don't put the drawing on it I will
1:46:18be very surprised they're gonna put the
1:46:20drawing on there maybe if they're really
1:46:22clever they can do some rear projection
1:46:24of a clock on the actual drawing so they
1:46:26could get the time right that would be a
1:46:27good thing to do I
1:46:29think the scaffolding won't cover the
1:46:30clock itself until the very last minute
1:46:31but hmm what could be wrong about that -
1:46:34as possible that's possible here's the
1:46:36other thing though that I think is
1:46:37interesting around this this
1:46:38construction thing like it's going to
1:46:40take so long
1:46:40but what has happened like I kind of
1:46:44love when this happens and I also hate
1:46:46when it happens is that now what the
1:46:49bell will chime for is turning into like
1:46:53a fun political issue where everybody
1:46:56gets to argue about what events are they
1:46:58going to ring the bell for right so
1:47:01somebody somebody made a terrible
1:47:03mistake where they said oh the Bell
1:47:04isn't going to ring for four years right
1:47:06and then as you mentioned like
1:47:07politicians came in and they said well
1:47:09well what about for New Year's and I
1:47:11said okay well we can make the bell ring
1:47:12for New Year's so it's like no no if you
1:47:14say the Bell won't ring don't concede or
1:47:17I don't ever concede because then all
1:47:18you're going to deal with for forever is
1:47:20people asking you to make the bell ring
1:47:23for their idea of what a special
1:47:25occasion is and so already there's a
1:47:27little storm about is the bell going to
1:47:30ring for the moment of the glorious
1:47:32Independence of the UK when it leaves
1:47:34the EU like surely Big Ben should ring
1:47:36for that as like oh no you've opened
1:47:38yourself up to this problem of everybody
1:47:41asking now that you have declared this
1:47:43period of silence of everybody asking
1:47:45for the bell to ring on a special
1:47:48occasion like you know in the next four
1:47:50years there's going to be some dramatic
1:47:52news event right some tragedy of some
1:47:54kind and people will be calling for the
1:47:56bell to ring as respect for this moment
1:47:58right like it's inevitable that this is
1:48:00going to happen at the moment they're
1:48:02saying anything New Year's Eve and
1:48:03remembrance Sunday it'd be interesting
1:48:04it's a really really important member of
1:48:06the royal family does for example in the
1:48:08next four years which is not an
1:48:10inconceivable thought it's not
1:48:12inconceivable that the queen is going to
1:48:14die in the next four years right I said
1:48:15it not me
1:48:16we're not jinxing the Queen here Big Ben
1:48:20was ringing everyone would be saying it
1:48:22should be silenced so I don't know what
1:48:24they're gonna do when that happens yeah
1:48:25you can't say hey the Queen's dead let's
1:48:27so bring a bow don't um yeah I've put my
1:48:29money right now but if the Queen dies
1:48:32they will ring the bell
1:48:33right I bet that will happen that's
1:48:36that's what I put my money on but when
1:48:37someone dies isn't it all you know stop
1:48:39the bills that's like birth that's even
1:48:41the poem isn't it it's when someone
1:48:42it's an inversion you're totally right
1:48:44because the Bell is silent we had now we
1:48:47must ring the bell to not ring the bell
1:48:49incredibly disrespectful do you know
1:48:51what's gonna happen what every bad thing
1:48:53that happens in the next four years is
1:48:55gonna be put down to the curse of Big
1:48:56Ben it's gonna be like you know when
1:48:59local celebrities start dying and think
1:49:01bad things happen it's gonna be all this
1:49:02just started happening when Big Ben's
1:49:04stopped ringing you know I think you're
1:49:05right I think you're right Brady Big Ben
1:49:07it's it's the beating heart of the
1:49:09United Kingdom it's terrible terrible
1:49:12luck to still the beating heart of this
1:49:15kingdom and is it a coincidence they
1:49:17stopped the Bell the same day as the
1:49:18eclipse of the century I don't think it
1:49:20is yeah no I don't think it is mm-hmm
1:49:23it's concerning it's really really
1:49:25concerning point that you brought up
1:49:27their curse the big ten I hope we make
1:49:30it through it
1:50:18do I sound Pasha yes you sound Pasha
1:50:21without a doubt I think we could do with
1:50:23double-blind posh tests on this and if
1:50:25people would definitely say this is the
1:50:26Pasha one although because it's like
1:50:28that old-fashioned type of microphone I
1:50:30was hoping would maybe make me sound
1:50:31like those people who did like
1:50:32voiceovers for nineteen fifties
1:50:34newsrooms like now having set the new
1:50:38land speed record out on the lakes of
1:50:40North America it's pretty good