Hello Internet

H.I. #87: Podcast of the Century


00:00:00   hello hello it looks good waveform looks

00:00:02   good on the new posh as cushions

00:00:05   microphone I was not sure if you were

00:00:06   actually going to use that to record a

00:00:08   show or if it was going to remain a

00:00:10   trophy forever somewhere in your house I

00:00:12   couldn't have predicted what you were

00:00:13   going to do I like the idea of it taking

00:00:15   some beatings like while I do like

00:00:18   objects I also like objects that have

00:00:20   like been used in battle like the real

00:00:23   thing I prefer that to something that

00:00:24   just sits in a glass case mmm so once

00:00:27   this has got scratches on it and I've

00:00:28   dropped it and it's got a few dings and

00:00:30   dongs and things like that's just gonna

00:00:32   make me love it more and you know

00:00:33   knowing that it was used for the next

00:00:35   two to three hundred hello Internet

00:00:37   episodes you and I will be automated by

00:00:43   then of course hopefully oh thanks I

00:00:46   would like nothing more to collect the

00:00:48   revenues on an automated hello Internet

00:00:51   I'm so excited to tell you about this

00:00:53   that I don't know how to tell you okay

00:00:56   like do I stretch it out as a big long

00:00:58   story with the twist or do I just like

00:01:01   tell you the cool thing first and I

00:01:03   don't know how to do it I think I'm

00:01:05   gonna just jump right in and give you

00:01:07   the good stuff cuz you just have to know

00:01:08   it's too cool I don't know Brady isn't

00:01:10   it always best to start at the beginning

00:01:11   no not always

00:01:13   I'm gonna mess around with the timeline

00:01:14   a bit here okay I'm gonna send you a

00:01:16   picture okay okay in itself it's a

00:01:19   pretty cool picture here we go

00:01:22   Oh what are you saying there the scale

00:01:24   is a little tricky on this photograph

00:01:26   but it looks like I am seeing a rocket

00:01:29   launch at night I can't quite tell how

00:01:32   big this actually is but it looks like a

00:01:33   pretty reasonably sized Rockets

00:01:36   launching over the ocean or watching

00:01:38   over the ocean this is part of the

00:01:39   Roxette X project that NASA runs where

00:01:42   they launch these things called sounding

00:01:44   rockets okay which are basically

00:01:47   repurposed military hardware that they

00:01:49   can send into space on suborbital

00:01:52   flights as kind of a cheap way of

00:01:54   putting things in space and they're

00:01:55   often used for research or sometimes

00:01:57   student projects and things like that so

00:01:59   they'll go up and you'll get five or six

00:02:02   minutes of zero-g and that sort of thing

00:02:05   oh so there are people in there no there

00:02:06   aren't people in the okay no they're

00:02:08   nowhere near big enough for like people

00:02:09   but they're still pretty hefty Rockets

00:02:12   and they can go hundreds

00:02:13   miles into space so you know pretty

00:02:17   awesome things so interesting story as

00:02:20   well by the way why they're called

00:02:21   sounding Rockets because I thought there

00:02:23   must be something to do with like sonar

00:02:24   or something like they used to send them

00:02:26   up and like have them make noise to

00:02:27   measure things but it actually has

00:02:29   nothing to do with it it comes from like

00:02:30   the nautical term sounding which is when

00:02:33   they used to drop like string or ropes

00:02:35   with weights on them off the back of a

00:02:37   ship to measure how deep the water was

00:02:39   hmm so this is kind of like in Reverse

00:02:40   because they're sending these things

00:02:42   that really high

00:02:42   they're sending these sounding rockets

00:02:44   into space to figure out how deep space

00:02:46   is I don't think that's the job of this

00:02:48   sounding is the string at the end of the

00:02:49   rocket if we're going to send it as far

00:02:51   as we can and that's how big space is

00:02:53   Mikiko boy golly it's a space it's

00:02:55   really big there that last one we sent

00:02:59   we ran out of string again

00:03:01   so big deal and I'll actually uh

00:03:03   endeavor to post a video of this

00:03:05   particular one launching because it's

00:03:07   not like watching a set in five take off

00:03:10   to the moon where they start off really

00:03:12   slow rumbling from the pad these things

00:03:14   are like a bullet out of a gun they're

00:03:15   amazing

00:03:16   hmm I think it's something like 30

00:03:18   g-forces when they take off there's

00:03:21   nobody in that rocket it's crazy and

00:03:23   even when it's that sustained flight

00:03:25   it's about 15 J so you couldn't put

00:03:27   people in it and they also spin at a

00:03:29   crazy rate to keep them stable but then

00:03:31   this particular one sort of stops

00:03:34   spinning when it gets into space and it

00:03:35   stayed sort of weightless and hardly

00:03:38   moving at all for six minutes and then

00:03:39   they re spin it up and it falls back

00:03:41   down to earth and it lands in the ocean

00:03:45   in the Atlantic Ocean this thing takes

00:03:47   off from a place called the Wallops

00:03:50   Flight Facility which is an island off

00:03:52   Virginia hmm and then someone will fish

00:03:57   it out of the water and if necessary

00:03:58   they can get the experiment out of the

00:04:00   rocket if it hasn't been bits

00:04:01   information back hmm that's what's going

00:04:03   on this particular launch happened just

00:04:06   recently on August 13 and this thing

00:04:08   went up a hundred miles so it went into

00:04:10   space came back down fantastic these

00:04:14   things have you know reasonably common

00:04:16   launches like this but this one was a

00:04:18   bit special and I'll send you another

00:04:20   picture okay because as far as I know

00:04:24   this is the first time that the hello

00:04:29   Internet Nayland gear flag has gone into

00:04:33   space there was a nail and gear flag in

00:04:39   the nose of this rocket dick has now

00:04:43   been into space Wow okay so you send me

00:04:48   a picture of a mini flag that it looks

00:04:51   like somebody made about the length of a

00:04:54   number-two pencil this was in the nose

00:04:57   of the spaceship that we're talking

00:04:59   about here it was so if I may explain

00:05:01   okay yeah how did this come to pass

00:05:04   basically the start of Operation tetra

00:05:07   as I'm calling it I was contacted by a

00:05:09   Tim who I'm gonna give the code name

00:05:11   deep space contacted me and this person

00:05:17   was was working on the experimental

00:05:21   payload and it's quite common for people

00:05:24   working on these sort of things to put a

00:05:25   couple of little personal trinkets in

00:05:26   like everyone likes IANA if there's

00:05:28   something that can be signed and they

00:05:30   might put like an SD card with a bunch

00:05:31   of pictures and everyone's names on them

00:05:33   so they can say your name went into

00:05:35   space and that so deep space contacted

00:05:37   me and basically said there could be an

00:05:40   opportunity here so we decided it was

00:05:43   time for the hailing gear to go into

00:05:44   space but it had to be extremely small

00:05:47   we couldn't send like a full-size flag

00:05:49   because the amount of space and weight

00:05:50   you've got is like tiny yeah he

00:05:53   basically said I had to be small enough

00:05:54   that if it was all like round up it

00:05:56   could fit inside like a tiny little like

00:05:58   pill container and the amount of fuel

00:06:00   you need to accelerate any mass to 30

00:06:03   G's at a sustained level it gets

00:06:05   expensive fast hmm but luckily I happen

00:06:08   to be very good friends in Bristol here

00:06:09   with a very talented woman whose

00:06:11   business is doing tiny like intricate

00:06:14   stitching and needlework

00:06:16   so I didn't want to just send like a

00:06:18   paper flag or a cardboard flag into

00:06:20   space because I thought that would be a

00:06:21   bit naff I want it to be like a proper

00:06:23   cloth flag with you know the nailing

00:06:25   gear embroidered on so what you're

00:06:29   looking at there is not just like a

00:06:31   piece of paper that looks at the nailing

00:06:32   gear there is a proper cloth flag with

00:06:35   little bits of string and like all the

00:06:37   little things as if you were going to

00:06:38   so it is a proper nailing gear flag

00:06:41   shrunk down even the white part there is

00:06:44   like separate cloth stitched on so this

00:06:48   friend of mine made this beautiful tiny

00:06:50   flag yeah you sent me the world's

00:06:52   tiniest photograph of this tiny flag you

00:06:55   sent me a photograph for ants so I

00:06:58   couldn't quite see the detail but yes

00:06:59   once you start describing it I can see

00:07:00   that it has that additional bit of white

00:07:02   on it so that it can be flown on a tiny

00:07:05   planet that this spaceship might land on

00:07:07   baby I'm gonna say that that makes it a

00:07:10   hundred times better that it's not just

00:07:12   a piece of paper with the logo printed

00:07:15   out on it it is a hello Internet flag

00:07:17   shrunk down to tiny size that's way

00:07:21   better that's way better uh uh for the

00:07:24   listeners after my complaining that the

00:07:27   photograph Brady sent me was too small

00:07:29   Brady has now sent macro shots of the

00:07:32   detail of this flag I think these are

00:07:35   ten 20 megapixel photos that have come

00:07:38   across the old iMessage now I can see

00:07:41   every if i zoom into my computer I can

00:07:44   see every single individual lovingly

00:07:48   crafted stitch on this tiny hello

00:07:51   internet flag it's beautiful I did say

00:07:53   to my friend Kate because like her

00:07:55   business is making these tiny stitch

00:07:56   things like she makes like recreations

00:07:58   of detailed maps out of stitches hmm and

00:08:01   I did say to her once the Tim say this

00:08:03   like they're gonna get pretty excited I

00:08:05   did say how do you feel about making a

00:08:06   whole bunch of tiny you know India flags

00:08:08   and she sort of said she may have a

00:08:13   sideline anyway at the moment there's

00:08:18   just the one man it's been in space and

00:08:20   it's being sent back to me it was fished

00:08:22   out of the well the whole rocket was

00:08:24   lodged out of the Atlantic by the

00:08:25   fishermen oh god I didn't even occur to

00:08:27   me see you're gonna get this back in

00:08:28   your hands yes Wow it's soon to be in

00:08:32   the post from codenamed deep space and

00:08:35   I've said can you also include like an

00:08:37   official letter to like certify that it

00:08:39   went into space and all that sort of

00:08:40   stuff cuz you know I like all that kind

00:08:43   of stuff

00:08:43   so hello Internet flag in space it did

00:08:48   get a little bit wet because when the

00:08:50   rocket smashes into the season

00:08:52   can leak in so a little bit of seawater

00:08:53   got onto it but you know that just adds

00:08:56   to the awesomeness of it in my opinion

00:08:57   it was exposed to a bit of you know a

00:08:59   bit a vacuum nurse and you know it's

00:09:01   done the real deal man it's done the

00:09:03   real deal this is such an artifact of

00:09:05   hello Internet I know what you're

00:09:06   thinking I know what you're thinking

00:09:08   what am I thinking Brady medal of honor

00:09:10   well medal of honor obviously I don't

00:09:13   need to say that out loud I'm still

00:09:14   thinking about just the object itself

00:09:16   and oh yeah this needs to be kept in a

00:09:20   vacuum seal like under a glass dome

00:09:23   there needs to be some sort of like

00:09:26   monument around this hello internet

00:09:29   artifact this is great I really love

00:09:31   this like the photograph that you sent

00:09:33   me of this launch like it's majestic to

00:09:35   see photographs of humans launching

00:09:37   objects into space just under normal

00:09:38   circumstances like look at this

00:09:40   tremendous triumph we have as a species

00:09:42   but now that this photograph has taken

00:09:44   on almost majestic or holy proportions

00:09:47   in my mind I lack the words to describe

00:09:49   it yeah well my plan is to get that

00:09:51   amazing photo framed with the flag

00:09:53   framed mmm and have it like as a

00:09:55   permanent display that could possibly go

00:09:56   and well to us right yes yeah I was

00:09:59   thinking Kate who stitched her I was

00:10:01   thinking of having it that displayed in

00:10:03   her shop for a like a month or two so

00:10:05   she could say look I made this flag and

00:10:06   here is going into space cuz then like

00:10:08   normal people will see it and I won't

00:10:10   just be in my office and it feels like

00:10:11   it's like it's part of its well to a

00:10:13   stage one I could see the museums around

00:10:16   the world that are interested in in

00:10:17   hello internet as a cultural powerhouse

00:10:19   would want there's artifacts on loan on

00:10:22   display I think this quite reasonably

00:10:24   could go on world tours in museums

00:10:28   across the globe without a doubt before

00:10:29   going into its final resting place at

00:10:31   the permanent hello internet museum on

00:10:33   level seven of the Marty Blackstone

00:10:35   right of course we're all be displayed

00:10:38   next to the full-size hello Internet

00:10:40   Nayland gave flag that was flown on Air

00:10:42   Force One which is already framed in my

00:10:44   office

00:10:46   yes Brady's office the temporary holding

00:10:49   place for all of the hello internet

00:10:51   artifacts that will eventually be

00:10:53   relocated to the proper Museum do you

00:10:55   know what's amazing though what there

00:10:57   was actually a nail in gear space race

00:11:03   I'm gonna send you another picture I'm

00:11:07   not even joking here comes another

00:11:08   picture sent by another Tim who has been

00:11:11   working on the innards and circuitry for

00:11:14   a small satellite which is likely to be

00:11:17   launched possibly next year please tell

00:11:20   me this is a Soviet satellite it's not

00:11:22   severe it's not serious

00:11:23   oh wow this is a piece of it looks like

00:11:25   circuit board like printed circuit board

00:11:28   it's like shielding board and

00:11:30   silk-screened

00:11:31   on to it is the name of a few people of

00:11:33   note engine the creator and well you can

00:11:37   see it there gray yeah I can see that

00:11:39   this the nail and gear silk-screened

00:11:41   onto the shielding board for this

00:11:44   satellite it's very I like that it's

00:11:46   being it's being held in you know the

00:11:48   blue gloves for working with delicate

00:11:49   equipment or important equipment this is

00:11:51   proper cleanroom stuff you're looking at

00:11:53   here this is a honest-to-goodness

00:11:54   awesome satellite that's gonna be proper

00:11:56   like 600 kilometers in space for a long

00:11:59   time this is no joking matter

00:12:00   so up there as it's zooming around the

00:12:03   earth there will be a nail in gear

00:12:05   insert shielding the delicate innards of

00:12:07   the satellite from the harsh radiation

00:12:09   of space also awesome not as awesome as

00:12:12   an actual flag going into space but

00:12:14   still very very awesome do you know

00:12:16   what's really cool about the miniature

00:12:18   flag and why it means so much to me well

00:12:20   is because it was a really big thing in

00:12:21   the Apollo time to take miniature flags

00:12:24   like to the moon and stuff oh yeah and

00:12:26   you can still buy them on the

00:12:28   second-hand market and a miniature

00:12:29   American flag that went to the moon

00:12:31   depending on whether it went around the

00:12:33   moon landed on the moon went on the

00:12:35   surface of the Moon you're looking at

00:12:37   tens tens tens of thousands of dollars

00:12:40   at least wait can you explain that to me

00:12:42   are you saying that there was there was

00:12:44   a market for astronauts bringing flags

00:12:46   up on space missions and then bringing

00:12:48   them back Apollo astronauts ever allow

00:12:50   all astronauts still but it was a it was

00:12:52   a particularly big thing in the Apollo

00:12:53   time were allowed to take these personal

00:12:56   preference kits they're called ppk/s

00:12:58   in

00:12:58   to space and it's like you know a cloth

00:13:00   bag and you could put whatever you

00:13:02   wanted in there so they would put things

00:13:04   in there that would be valuable because

00:13:06   they went to space and if the material

00:13:08   stayed in the module that went around

00:13:10   the moon you know that's pretty valuable

00:13:12   if you took it with you into the lunar

00:13:14   landing module and it went down onto the

00:13:16   surface that made the item even more

00:13:18   valuable if it was in a pocket or

00:13:19   something when you walked around on the

00:13:20   moon well that's pretty valuable stuff

00:13:23   days it did start causing a few

00:13:26   controversies later on Apollo 15 got

00:13:28   themselves into a bit of controversy to

00:13:30   do with taking up a bunch of envelopes

00:13:33   and stamps and salt and stuff and the

00:13:35   Hulk sort of grubby market side of it

00:13:37   became a little bit controversial for a

00:13:40   while that's what I was wondering is

00:13:41   this like part of the unofficial

00:13:43   compensation package of becoming an

00:13:45   astronaut is a wink-wink we all know you

00:13:48   get to bring up some stuff that you can

00:13:50   sell on the grey market

00:13:51   it wasn't even unofficial there are

00:13:52   these things and you can still buy them

00:13:54   today there's quite a market for them I

00:13:55   think they're called

00:13:56   insurance covers and they would be like

00:13:59   an official envelope like with nice

00:14:01   printed stuff on it like a picture of

00:14:03   the crew commemorating the mission and

00:14:04   like stamps and things like that and all

00:14:08   the astronauts on that mission like Neil

00:14:10   Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin and Michael

00:14:11   Collins did this with each sign the

00:14:13   envelope mm-hmm so it had all three

00:14:15   members of the mission on the envelope

00:14:17   and they do a whole bunch of them and

00:14:18   then those envelopes would be split

00:14:19   amongst the families because then if

00:14:21   they then like died on the moon because

00:14:24   they couldn't get life insurance because

00:14:26   no one would insure them these things

00:14:27   would be so valuable they would act as

00:14:29   life insurance so they were actually

00:14:31   called insurance covers and there were

00:14:32   things they were sitting there signing

00:14:33   thinking this is gonna keep my family

00:14:36   fed if I die in space hmm interesting

00:14:38   stuff isn't it the the envelope thing

00:14:41   I've heard that I guess what I'm

00:14:42   wondering is that this policy of you can

00:14:45   bring up a little bag full of personal

00:14:47   items yeah how much was it blessed or

00:14:50   anticipated from NASA that you of course

00:14:52   are going to bring up things that you're

00:14:54   just going to resell versus oh you're

00:14:57   you're bringing up a photograph of your

00:14:59   wife and family you know to put on the

00:15:01   dashboard of the spaceship like in a

00:15:03   movie or whatever or leave on the moon

00:15:05   there was one Apollo astronaut who left

00:15:06   a photo of his wife and kids actually on

00:15:08   the surface of the Moon or to do that

00:15:10   like I guess that's what I'm wondering

00:15:11   is

00:15:12   I understand that they could officially

00:15:13   bring up objects but was it foreseen or

00:15:15   anticipated that this would rapidly turn

00:15:18   into a gray market of memorabilia I'm

00:15:21   pretty sure it was already a known thing

00:15:24   that was happening hmm like even before

00:15:26   Apollo the early missions it was sort of

00:15:28   already a thing that items flown in

00:15:30   space were valuable and astronauts

00:15:32   you know when known to be taking them up

00:15:35   there and like doing their own little

00:15:36   side deals with people to take certain

00:15:38   things into space it came to a head

00:15:40   after Apollo 15 I can't remember all the

00:15:43   exact details I think from memory it was

00:15:46   reaching a kind of more industrial scale

00:15:48   almost and then it kind of started

00:15:49   looking bad or and then they sort of

00:15:51   introduced some new rules but up until

00:15:53   then it was kind of okay NASA again I'm

00:15:57   just speaking from memory here but I

00:15:59   believe NASA didn't even look at what

00:16:01   was in those bags that's how personal

00:16:03   they were the only person who had a list

00:16:04   of what was in your personal preference

00:16:06   kit I believe was probably deke Slayton

00:16:08   who was the head of the astronaut office

00:16:10   so he had to know what was in there just

00:16:11   so that you weren't taking you know a

00:16:13   stick of dynamite up or something like

00:16:15   that or the or they have a they have an

00:16:17   inventory just in case there's an Apollo

00:16:18   13 moment of oh oh somebody brought

00:16:21   scotch tape how incredibly convenient

00:16:22   assist I actually brought the correct

00:16:25   shaped carbon what a blessing that's

00:16:31   really interesting

00:16:31   I have one more question about this

00:16:33   Brady Oh Andy what go on can you explain

00:16:36   the name operation tetra I feel like

00:16:39   there's some clever meaning to this that

00:16:40   I as a person who lacks your

00:16:43   encyclopedic knowledge of outer space I

00:16:45   am not picking up on what is this

00:16:47   operation name and what does it mean

00:16:49   the reason is code operation tetra is

00:16:51   not for me to reveal that is a decision

00:16:54   for deep-space if we manage to reveal it

00:16:57   okay that's how secretive it is if

00:16:59   deep-space wishes to reveal why we're

00:17:01   calling our operation tetra that is his

00:17:03   prerogative okay

00:17:04   well we'll find out next episode if such

00:17:08   information is revealed or if it remains

00:17:10   forever a mystery I was so excited by

00:17:13   this but before I spoke about it on the

00:17:15   show today because obviously most just

00:17:17   had been done by email and post before I

00:17:19   spoke about it on the show today I

00:17:20   wanted to have had a voice conversation

00:17:22   just to find out you know you find out

00:17:23   so much more that way

00:17:24   so I had the phone call and that just

00:17:27   got me even more excited and I couldn't

00:17:29   tell you because I wanted to surprise

00:17:30   you on the show hmm so I immediately

00:17:32   phoned my wife and she's like what's

00:17:35   going on I'm so excited I have to tell

00:17:37   you what's going on in LA and she

00:17:39   already knew about the thing going into

00:17:41   space I was like I spoke I spoke to him

00:17:43   she said oh that's good and you know I

00:17:45   told her all sorts of bits and pieces

00:17:46   and she listened and you know what her

00:17:49   reaction was I'm going to guess as with

00:17:52   so many things with your wife and hello

00:17:54   Internet related her reaction was no

00:17:56   reaction she said don't forget to pick

00:17:59   up some bananas at the show oh god

00:18:06   that's the worst

00:18:07   that is so deflation arey I can

00:18:09   understand that feeling I have been on

00:18:11   the unintentional receiving end of those

00:18:13   kind of remarks to where you're telling

00:18:14   someone something that you think is so

00:18:16   amazing and that other person is like oh

00:18:18   that's great that's great we need milk

00:18:20   as well if you happen to be going out

00:18:21   like before that she did ask me one

00:18:25   question and that kind of shot me down

00:18:27   as well because I said oh the flow I

00:18:29   went into space I went into space and

00:18:31   she went we're in space did it go mm-hmm

00:18:33   and then I went oh well it like it went

00:18:36   up like high for six minutes and then it

00:18:38   fell back down into the sea okay she was

00:18:41   looking for a planet name actually two

00:18:48   and a half years ago on day one of the

00:18:50   podcast we launched a probe headed out

00:18:53   towards Pluto and it's just come back

00:18:56   anyway I did pick up the bananas we get

00:18:59   the important things done here speaking

00:19:01   of space gray Elon Musk apparently has

00:19:04   released the picture of what the

00:19:07   spacesuit is gonna look like that is

00:19:10   gonna be worn by his SpaceX crew when

00:19:14   they like go to space I mean I don't

00:19:18   know why there's crew on his dragon

00:19:20   cargo capsule spurt

00:19:22   okay I have a question Brady okay all

00:19:23   right there's a good chance I won't have

00:19:24   the answer well okay my question is

00:19:27   actually partly about that because I

00:19:29   feel like maybe I'm wrong about this but

00:19:31   it feel like you're a real NASA man am I

00:19:35   right about that like yeah a couple of

00:19:37   episodes ago

00:19:38   there was something about cars in

00:19:40   Australia and it was like Oh everybody

00:19:42   in Australia it's wibbly-wobbly versus

00:19:44   zingers like and I'm a wibbly-wobbly man

00:19:46   like people pick sides in nineteen oh

00:19:49   you're talking about now Holden Holden

00:19:50   yeah yeah I got it all right I may be

00:19:54   wrong but I'm realizing when you send me

00:19:56   this story about SpaceX that I feel like

00:19:59   you're a NASA man in your bones and I

00:20:03   would wonder first is that correct and

00:20:06   if it is correct

00:20:07   how much do you follow news about SpaceX

00:20:10   I love NASA because you know I've got

00:20:13   the runs on the board haven't they they

00:20:14   put people on the moon they were the

00:20:17   ground breakers and when they were doing

00:20:18   space stuff at its best it was all about

00:20:20   just what can we do what can we do just

00:20:23   for the sake of doing not what's gonna

00:20:25   make us money not how much money are we

00:20:27   gonna get by landing on the moon or

00:20:29   putting people in space or taking a

00:20:31   photo of the moons of Saturn it was just

00:20:34   what can we do and let's do it and I

00:20:36   love them for that times have changed

00:20:37   and at times have even changed at NASA

00:20:39   in my opinion and so when I look at

00:20:42   things like SpaceX

00:20:43   while they're doing impressive difficult

00:20:46   things mm-hmm

00:20:47   a lot of it is kind of what can we do

00:20:50   that's already been done but cheaper

00:20:53   what can we do that's already been done

00:20:55   but earn money from it right and like

00:20:57   that's important and like I know it's

00:20:59   important to make space stuff cheaper

00:21:02   because that's what's gonna make it you

00:21:04   know more useful to us as humans but

00:21:07   that just doesn't inspire me I'm not

00:21:09   inspired by economics like when they

00:21:11   keep landing these reusable rockets and

00:21:14   everyone's like this is a great

00:21:16   milestone for space like it's not a

00:21:20   great milestone it just means it's gonna

00:21:21   make rocket use cheaper mm-hmm and

00:21:24   that's to me that's not a milestone

00:21:25   that's just like economies and like

00:21:28   don't get me wrong it does look pretty

00:21:29   impressive when those things land

00:21:30   because there just is such a bizarre

00:21:31   looking thing to see something land

00:21:33   backwards like that mm-hmm so I am

00:21:35   impressed by the visuals of it but I

00:21:37   don't think all these milestones of

00:21:39   making things cheaper are like inspiring

00:21:42   me I think they're good and I'm glad

00:21:43   people are doing them and I'm glad

00:21:45   they're a businessman who care about

00:21:46   these things because it's important to

00:21:48   push it all forward so I'm not going to

00:21:49   poopoo them but I'm also not gonna

00:21:52   get stars in my eyes and think how

00:21:54   wonderful this is I just think it's just

00:21:56   the corporatization and the businesses

00:21:59   ation of space which was inevitable and

00:22:02   fine

00:22:03   but it just doesn't stir me you like

00:22:06   space before it was all corporate yeah

00:22:08   you've summed it up there yeah it's

00:22:10   interesting because I am very aware that

00:22:13   of all of the companies that are in the

00:22:17   musk orbit the only one that I actually

00:22:19   really follow with any detail is Tesla

00:22:23   and I haven't followed any of the news

00:22:25   out of SpaceX it just doesn't hold my

00:22:27   mind even though I completely agree with

00:22:30   with your comments but like the

00:22:31   economics of it are important for the

00:22:34   future of space travel it's just that I

00:22:36   don't follow it I actually haven't even

00:22:38   seen one of those videos yet of the

00:22:40   Rockets landing backwards like I've I've

00:22:42   seen still photographs but I've never

00:22:44   actually seen the video itself it's

00:22:46   quite a sight it's quite a funny size

00:22:48   it's worth a look yeah but I just think

00:22:50   is interesting is I do know people who

00:22:51   are into space and it's like for some

00:22:53   people like while you are a NASA man

00:22:56   some people are all in on SpaceX like

00:22:59   they're super interested in SpaceX and

00:23:01   not very interested in the stuff that

00:23:04   came before space yeah there are two

00:23:06   types of SpaceX fans there are the ones

00:23:08   you just described who we'd like just

00:23:09   love that it's becoming business and

00:23:11   private mhm and they're also like the

00:23:14   cheerleaders who just like anything

00:23:16   space is good hey if it's space it's

00:23:18   good and they get all excited and you

00:23:20   know my feeling on this face - your

00:23:21   pressure that's how you feel about it

00:23:22   space - you pressure you mustn't say

00:23:25   anything bad about SpaceX because

00:23:26   they're like pushing space forward and

00:23:28   like you know they're not question that

00:23:31   anyway I think it's an interesting thing

00:23:33   because I vaguely know when SpaceX stuff

00:23:35   is going on because I see people

00:23:36   tweeting at me about the news and asking

00:23:39   what I think about it I'm just always

00:23:41   the way that I just don't follow it it

00:23:43   doesn't pull my attention toward it

00:23:47   maybe I think you've solidified

00:23:50   something in my mind that it's it's like

00:23:51   the NASA stuff is interesting because it

00:23:53   was first and as I think I've said

00:23:56   before in the podcast I view a lot of

00:23:57   the NASA stuff as particularly

00:23:58   interesting the whole space race time

00:24:00   was particularly interesting because it

00:24:02   may be one of the only times in human

00:24:04   history where there there

00:24:05   like technological happenings that were

00:24:07   off the timeline I feel like the

00:24:09   progress of technology is is very

00:24:11   ordered and one thing very naturally

00:24:13   comes after the next but that maybe we

00:24:15   had this moment where there was a like a

00:24:16   push that was ahead of its time

00:24:19   which is then why we didn't have much

00:24:20   progress for a long time but that makes

00:24:22   it super interesting that there were

00:24:23   other things happening in the world that

00:24:26   forced this early expansion of a thing

00:24:28   that really shouldn't have happened for

00:24:30   another 60 years so like that is very

00:24:32   interesting but I think you're right

00:24:34   maybe a lot of the stuff right now it

00:24:36   doesn't capture my attention because it

00:24:38   is mostly about dropping the costs to

00:24:41   the point at which it's economical to do

00:24:43   and then maybe my interest will uptick

00:24:45   once it gets out of the we're dropping

00:24:47   the cost phase and it's like okay I

00:24:49   think I'll be excited once we start

00:24:52   actually moving cargo in and out of

00:24:54   space or like when we actually start

00:24:56   mining asteroids like Jeff Bezos his

00:24:59   rifle company is trying to do like I

00:25:01   think that's maybe where I'll be

00:25:02   interested again but I still feel like

00:25:04   I'm at a real lull for interest in

00:25:07   what's going on in space like we're

00:25:09   going through a necessary process but

00:25:11   it's not exciting to me yet until we

00:25:14   start doing like new things again yeah I

00:25:17   think I get a little bit demotivated

00:25:19   when I think people are doing things

00:25:21   just for the money and I feel like it's

00:25:25   an inevitable consequence of private

00:25:28   funded space travel and exploration that

00:25:31   it has to be done for the money

00:25:32   otherwise it won't happen so I'm not

00:25:34   saying like Elon Musk only cares about

00:25:35   money right but I am saying they are

00:25:38   making sure everything they do will make

00:25:39   money and that's when it becomes a bit

00:25:42   demotivating even when they start you

00:25:44   know doing lots more cargo or when they

00:25:46   start mining stuff I don't care about

00:25:48   the mining asteroids because it's

00:25:50   profitable I'm really curious to see

00:25:52   what it's like on an asteroid mm-hmm

00:25:54   like that's gonna be cool but when it's

00:25:57   about money I straightaway go I love

00:26:01   when things are being done just for the

00:26:02   accomplishment for the glory of it glory

00:26:05   I care you glory too I understand that

00:26:07   feeling I think that my feeling is a

00:26:08   little bit different in that I think

00:26:10   with stuff like this in my mind when I

00:26:12   think about mining asteroids I think

00:26:15   it's not like wow Bezos or musk are

00:26:17   gonna make a fortune on the

00:26:19   asteroids right isn't that exciting I

00:26:20   think I'm much more interested because

00:26:22   it's like the money is an indication

00:26:25   that something is useful now it's not

00:26:29   just a stunt it means like if a thing

00:26:31   can be done for profit it means there is

00:26:34   some intrinsic utility in the thing for

00:26:38   someone somewhere like that's where it

00:26:41   starts becoming interesting again like

00:26:42   like once the economics of asteroid

00:26:45   mining become viable it means that

00:26:48   whatever it is that's happening is

00:26:50   useful and relevant to people in some

00:26:52   way but it feels like we're not there

00:26:55   yet and who knows how long it will take

00:26:57   to actually get there this this is also

00:26:59   the kind of thing I feel like I have no

00:27:00   idea or mental estimate of like what is

00:27:03   the timeline of how long is it going to

00:27:05   take before the very first roll of

00:27:08   copper is ever pulled in from from an

00:27:10   asteroid like I have no idea is that ten

00:27:12   years is it 50 years is it a hundred

00:27:15   years away like I don't have any concept

00:27:16   of what people are thinking about in

00:27:18   that domain I get a and I get why that

00:27:20   is of interest to you and it certainly

00:27:22   is important to lots of people and it's

00:27:25   inevitable that that's the way things

00:27:26   would end up but I feel sad that that is

00:27:29   actually become so important to everyone

00:27:32   like that's what's reigned in NASA isn't

00:27:34   it means that saying you know how is

00:27:37   what you're doing actually useful to

00:27:38   humans not another space probe into the

00:27:41   outer solar system like do something

00:27:43   useful there's this that all this

00:27:44   pressure to do something useful

00:27:46   there was nothing useful about going to

00:27:48   the moon oh there was something useful

00:27:50   it was proven those Russkies that we

00:27:52   were better I'm gonna directly argue

00:27:54   that that was actually tremendously

00:27:55   useful and that's why it was a bit of a

00:27:57   like an artificial technological leap we

00:27:59   gotta prove to somebody that we're way

00:28:01   better than them like watch out Russians

00:28:03   America rules yep but America didn't

00:28:05   prove its might by finding a cheaper way

00:28:10   to refine copper ore didn't move its

00:28:12   might by increasing its gross domestic

00:28:15   product by fifteen percent and used that

00:28:17   as a way of saying see Russia we are

00:28:19   mighty what they did was something

00:28:21   audacious with no seeming economic value

00:28:26   so even though there was the political

00:28:27   utility of it at the time the thing they

00:28:30   realized they had to do

00:28:31   - really well the world and prove their

00:28:35   amazingness wasn't economic news outside

00:28:38   that anyway

00:28:41   Elon Musk has released this image of

00:28:43   their space suit I was just curious what

00:28:46   you thought of it I thought like it's

00:28:48   obviously a very glossy PR picture

00:28:50   mm-hmm designed to impress but it's the

00:28:52   first look at a private space suit I

00:28:54   wonder what you thought of it I think it

00:28:56   looks sleek it looks very 2001 there

00:28:59   isn't much to comment on it except there

00:29:01   is something that endlessly tickles me

00:29:02   about the Guardian has an article in

00:29:05   which they referenced that quote chief

00:29:08   executive Elon Musk revealed the suit on

00:29:10   Instagram on Wednesday right like

00:29:13   there's something about that that I just

00:29:14   I find really funny that we live in this

00:29:17   world where the CEOs of major companies

00:29:20   or even big notable politicians like

00:29:23   they announced stuff on like Twitter and

00:29:24   Instagram and I just wait for the day

00:29:27   when someone really important announces

00:29:29   the thing on reddit and then newspapers

00:29:31   have to reveal that cyber monkey 47

00:29:34   revealed his future plans about this you

00:29:37   know enormous company that he runs on

00:29:39   his reddit I guess it is only a matter

00:29:41   of time before some kid who's had a

00:29:45   social media account forever with the

00:29:47   dumb name who just wants to keep keeping

00:29:49   it becomes a CEO of an important company

00:29:51   and then all of his announcements are on

00:29:54   this social media with this with his old

00:29:56   handle right that he made up when he was

00:29:57   13 like I just it tickles me to think

00:29:59   that that's going to happen eventually

00:30:00   or like I look forward to like a

00:30:02   president declaring war on snapchat the

00:30:09   snaps not there anymore

00:30:10   I'd say chaos gray grabbed it this

00:30:12   episode of hello Internet is brought to

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00:30:27   hello Internet one of the things I like

00:30:30   about listening to audiobooks is I find

00:30:32   much more than a physical book it's

00:30:34   easier to reread an audio book that you

00:30:37   like a lot and I have a few favorites

00:30:39   that I like to revisit on occasion and

00:30:41   one of those that's been on my mind

00:30:43   given some of the things

00:30:44   we've been discussing on hello Internet

00:30:46   is Bill Bryson's in a sunburned country

00:30:49   bill bryson if you're unaware is a funny

00:30:52   expats travel writer who I've enjoyed a

00:30:55   bunch of his books a walk in the woods

00:30:57   where he goes through the Appalachian

00:30:58   Trail is also quite good and I think I

00:31:01   have recommended to you before but in a

00:31:02   sunburned country this is the book where

00:31:05   he visits Australia and I think perhaps

00:31:07   I need to revisit this book so I can

00:31:09   more deeply understand

00:31:11   acha I feel like there's something I'm

00:31:14   still not getting about this term that

00:31:15   Brady discusses on the podcast and it's

00:31:18   been a long time since I've read in a

00:31:19   sunburned country so I think I need to

00:31:21   go back for some acha updates I need to

00:31:24   hear Bryson tell me about all of the

00:31:26   kind of super adorable things that you

00:31:28   can find in Australia cuddly koalas

00:31:31   posing platypi the country just filled

00:31:34   with so much cuteness that I think I

00:31:36   didn't appreciate on my first listen

00:31:38   through so if you are signing up with

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00:32:36   the show all right one other reasonably

00:32:41   well yes significant piece of space news

00:32:45   yeah where am i Brady right now I

00:32:47   actually don't know where you are I'm

00:32:49   assuming you're in England but seriously

00:32:51   you never tell me I actually at one

00:32:53   point thought you'd gone to America for

00:32:55   the Eclipse and hadn't told me

00:32:57   maybe I have no a student know that you

00:33:00   didn't it is actually true that I have

00:33:03   occasionally recorded the podcast from

00:33:05   another location and it just has to come

00:33:06   up in the space of recording but now for

00:33:09   this recording I'm sure to the

00:33:10   disappointment of hundreds of thousands

00:33:13   of Tim's we are not in America recording

00:33:16   while the Eclipse is occurring on a

00:33:19   podcast many many moons ago Oh clever it

00:33:23   was speculated whether or not we were

00:33:25   going to be in America for the Eclipse

00:33:27   whether or not the podcast was going to

00:33:29   still be in existence at the time that

00:33:31   the Eclipse occurred and the podcasts

00:33:34   still exists but we did not make it to

00:33:37   America at this summer sorry everybody

00:33:39   for two minutes I was jealous of all my

00:33:42   American friends but for the 48 hours

00:33:45   either side of those two minutes I was

00:33:47   feeling very very happy to not be in

00:33:49   airports and on planes yeah I think that

00:33:51   is definitely the case where both of us

00:33:53   we've ended up with a summer with lots

00:33:54   of travel and it was just it was very

00:33:56   difficult to try to coordinate

00:33:58   I had the longest traveling I ever had

00:34:00   this summer which was then followed by a

00:34:03   very short break being back in England

00:34:04   and then a big anniversary trip and it's

00:34:08   just like the summer was just a big big

00:34:10   traveling summer and it just really

00:34:12   wasn't it wasn't going to work out going

00:34:14   to America so I have said before saying

00:34:17   a total solar eclipse is an amazing

00:34:20   thing I did see one in China and it

00:34:22   remains one of the most extraordinary

00:34:24   things I've seen so I think everyone who

00:34:27   was lucky enough to see in the United

00:34:28   States is very fortunate and I hope they

00:34:31   enjoyed it but the cheer pressure got a

00:34:37   little bit crazy at some points on

00:34:39   Twitter and like I braved it

00:34:41   occasionally with a little bit of

00:34:43   mocking the America centric nosov it

00:34:47   took even my breath away like someone

00:34:51   needs to get over there and tell

00:34:52   Americans that eclipses like happen

00:34:53   elsewhere like seriously it was crazy

00:34:56   that how America centric it was but ok

00:34:58   ok my fault for following so many

00:35:01   Americans on Twitter but CNN did my head

00:35:04   in most of all constantly referring to

00:35:07   this as the eclipse of the century by

00:35:10   what cried

00:35:10   area this is the eclipse of the century

00:35:13   I have not been able to establish I

00:35:15   can't even make one up is it the only

00:35:17   Eclipse this century Brady no is it the

00:35:20   only eclipse in America this century no

00:35:23   okay is it the biggest eclipse no is

00:35:27   it's not the longest of the personal

00:35:29   wall is the glyph it's not the smallest

00:35:31   it's nothing I couldn't find a single

00:35:33   criteria by which this was the eclipse

00:35:36   of the century other than it was

00:35:38   happening right now in America is that

00:35:39   the eclipse of the century that has been

00:35:41   most often referred to as the eclipse of

00:35:43   the century perhaps that is the metric

00:35:45   by which they are measuring and it will

00:35:47   remain so until the next solar eclipse

00:35:49   in the United States but there are some

00:35:51   people saying oh there's some

00:35:52   coast-to-coast criteria but eclipses

00:35:55   have gone across like other countries

00:35:57   like if you are not being America

00:36:00   centric there is no way you could call

00:36:02   it the eclipse of the century

00:36:03   and even if you are being America

00:36:05   centric they have a better Eclipse this

00:36:07   century admittedly not for a long time

00:36:10   when is the better Eclipse oh it's like

00:36:11   right at the end of the century okay

00:36:13   well promise right now if the podcast is

00:36:16   still running it will be there for the

00:36:20   second Eclipse of the century we missed

00:36:21   the first one but we'll catch the second

00:36:23   one in America I started looking up

00:36:25   other eclipses to find out what really

00:36:27   is the eclipse of the century I decided

00:36:28   I wanted to figure out what would be the

00:36:30   eclipse of the century I didn't really

00:36:32   decide on one there was a quite a good

00:36:34   one in Antarctica that goes the opposite

00:36:36   way to normal but what I then started

00:36:38   looking at was what I just the best

00:36:40   eclipses full-stop

00:36:41   and there's actually a Wikipedia page

00:36:43   you can go to because you know how they

00:36:45   know every Eclipse forever so they know

00:36:48   when they're gonna happen in that and

00:36:49   you can look up all these amazing things

00:36:50   like eclipses that coincide with

00:36:53   transits of Venus and things like that

00:36:56   like all these amazing alignments that

00:36:58   happen in space and there was one I

00:37:00   think in like 20,000 years or something

00:37:02   where a total solar eclipse coincides

00:37:05   with a transit of Venus and things like

00:37:07   that so I was reading about that stuff

00:37:09   right and that stuff is so far in the

00:37:12   future it starts to make you feel a

00:37:14   little bit insignificant

00:37:19   and then I saw an image taken from space

00:37:23   of the Eclipse that just happened and it

00:37:25   was like a time-lapse showing the moon's

00:37:28   shadow sweep across the earth and when

00:37:31   you saw it in time-lapse and you

00:37:33   realized all that eclipses is like a

00:37:36   shadow fleetingly crossing another

00:37:39   object part of me looked at that imagery

00:37:42   and thought that's amazing like that's

00:37:43   really amazing to see it's amazing that

00:37:45   we can do that that we can look at the

00:37:47   moon shadow from space aren't we amazing

00:37:48   but another part of me thought like that

00:37:52   was just a shadow briefly touching

00:37:55   another object in space it happens all

00:37:58   the time

00:37:59   it will happen for hundreds of thousands

00:38:02   of more years it happens all across the

00:38:04   universe all the time

00:38:05   and yet we humans down here are getting

00:38:08   so excited and calling it the eclipse of

00:38:10   the century and like our planets

00:38:11   grinding to a halt so we can watch it

00:38:13   and it made me suddenly think that

00:38:15   humans like really fleeting and pathetic

00:38:19   few things first I need you to send me

00:38:21   the link to this list of eclipses

00:38:23   because I can I searched for Wikipedia

00:38:26   eclipse the top result was Twilight Saga

00:38:29   : Eclipse so I am NOT able to find this

00:38:32   list that you're talking about put list

00:38:35   of future astronomical events okay this

00:38:37   is Wikipedia article is very interesting

00:38:39   but it is not what I think we're really

00:38:40   looking for here list of future

00:38:42   astronomical events yeah and if you

00:38:44   scroll down to things that are happening

00:38:46   like you know in the year 20,000 346

00:38:50   turbine becomes the North Star and

00:38:52   things like that okay right so I'm

00:38:54   looking at list of future astronomical

00:38:56   events I enjoy this breakdown we have

00:38:58   the 21st century including things like

00:39:01   Halley's comet reaches perihelion as it

00:39:04   returns to the inner solar system

00:39:05   there's Venus occults Jupiter I don't

00:39:08   actually know what the word cult's means

00:39:11   in this context it's kind of like an

00:39:13   eclipse but the other way it's like two

00:39:15   things crossing over each other in the

00:39:16   night sky okay so what was that one

00:39:18   Venus occult Venus is called Jupiter so

00:39:20   that would look like Venus was crossing

00:39:22   in front of Jupiter from our perspective

00:39:25   okay so there's a few things that are

00:39:27   listed here in the 21st century the next

00:39:29   category is 22nd to 30th century no

00:39:33   the near Star Trek future I imagine they

00:39:36   then goes to the 4th to 10th millennium

00:39:39   but I really enjoy that after the 10th

00:39:42   of millennium they simply call it the

00:39:44   far future right I feel like 4th to 10th

00:39:47   millennium I think you can categorize it

00:39:50   as the far future I like that they like

00:39:52   Nana now after 10th millennium far

00:39:54   future is what we need to talk about

00:39:56   some of these are awesome that and it

00:39:58   makes me sad that I won't be here like

00:40:00   in the year 38,000 172 if you're on the

00:40:04   surface of Neptune

00:40:05   you can watch Uranus transit across the

00:40:09   front of the Sun the rarest of all

00:40:10   planetary transits Oh wouldn't that be

00:40:13   amazing or if you were around here on

00:40:15   earth in the year 67,000 173 Mercury and

00:40:19   Venus crossed the ecliptic at the same

00:40:21   time but then a mere two thousand years

00:40:24   later you can watch something I would

00:40:25   love to see a simultaneous transit of

00:40:28   Venus and Mercury both crossing the

00:40:30   Sun's face at the same time personally I

00:40:33   like Wikipedia for some of its its

00:40:34   little human elements here that in the

00:40:37   year 4000 772 on October 13th the Mayan

00:40:41   calendar will require a sixth digit I

00:40:44   like to imagine that on October 12 of

00:40:47   that year there are once again people

00:40:49   freaking out about the inevitable end of

00:40:51   the earth at that point like oh the

00:40:54   Mayan calendar hopefully has five digits

00:40:57   that's referred to as the Mayan bug I

00:41:00   really like the idea of that that people

00:41:03   will just have totally forgotten all of

00:41:04   the history up until now that go now

00:41:05   Mayan calendar again it's coming up to

00:41:07   another digit the minds didn't see this

00:41:09   far in advance and in America it would

00:41:11   still be eclipses of the century that

00:41:13   time there's an eclipse that's going to

00:41:15   happen here it's it's an interesting

00:41:17   list yes you these things I enjoy the

00:41:19   idea of physicists calculating and

00:41:21   finding these things are simulating

00:41:23   these things on a computer however it is

00:41:24   they they come across these events this

00:41:26   is also for me as a former physics major

00:41:29   it's the pleasing nature of being able

00:41:32   to do calculations that are so many

00:41:34   times in physics you're doing a

00:41:35   calculation and say these things like oh

00:41:37   well we're just gonna have to ignore

00:41:38   friction and air resistance for this

00:41:41   physics problem but when you're dealing

00:41:43   with very massive bodies in space

00:41:47   in the vacuum of space you can say yeah

00:41:49   we can actually calculate what's going

00:41:52   to happen in the year 7,000 right

00:41:54   because we can't ignore friction because

00:41:55   there isn't any friction like it's

00:41:57   trivial in this case so I love the idea

00:41:59   that you can just calculate that stuff

00:42:00   so far out in advance apparently there

00:42:02   is a point though where even like solar

00:42:04   system predictions become chaotic there

00:42:06   has to be because you have to flag solar

00:42:08   wind and the vacuum of space is not a

00:42:10   pure vacuum there has to be some point

00:42:13   at which that is but like how close is

00:42:14   that to the actual heat death of the

00:42:16   universe I would love to know somebody

00:42:17   knows yeah like where does it start

00:42:19   becoming chaotic in those predictions

00:42:22   long after you and I are in the ground

00:42:25   that's for sure but all of this all of

00:42:28   this aside the thing I kept thinking

00:42:29   about with this eclipse coming up in

00:42:31   America and of course as having made

00:42:34   reference to eight years ago I feel like

00:42:36   someone has been turning up the volume

00:42:38   in the background of my life for the

00:42:40   past three months about how often I hear

00:42:42   about this eclipse like on Twitter and

00:42:44   references to the rest of it and as it

00:42:47   kept getting closer and as I was

00:42:48   thinking more and more about eclipses

00:42:49   and seeing what equipment you need to

00:42:54   view the Eclipse and where you need to

00:42:55   be I have to say I feel like this this

00:42:57   took all of the shine off of eclipses in

00:43:01   my mind because like you when you were

00:43:04   talking about oh it's a shadow crossing

00:43:06   in front of an object I feel like I have

00:43:07   crossed some kind of mental barrier

00:43:09   where I don't even understand why this

00:43:12   is anything other than just a thing of

00:43:16   mild interests I don't know I feel like

00:43:18   I can't understand anymore how it is

00:43:20   that people are interpreting me eclipse

00:43:22   it's like okay so your subjective

00:43:23   experience is you're outside it goes

00:43:26   dark for a few moments and then it's

00:43:28   light again in the middle of the day

00:43:29   that's not what the Eclipse experience

00:43:32   is though like that's that's not what

00:43:33   happens okay why is it so breathtaking

00:43:36   it is a very beautiful thing it's rare

00:43:39   right let's ignore like the historical

00:43:42   significance of the human-like

00:43:44   relationship with eclipses because you

00:43:46   can easily dismiss that as old

00:43:48   superstition right so let's just talk

00:43:50   about that as just a thing of beauty it

00:43:52   is a very beautiful thing okay it's also

00:43:55   like just something so far from what

00:43:57   you're used to seeing like watching the

00:43:59   Sun which you've seen like

00:44:01   every day of your life in the sky

00:44:02   suddenly being like eaten away like

00:44:05   pac-man is like it's just very strange

00:44:08   to look up and think that's like a

00:44:10   really strange thing to see

00:44:11   like if something extraordinary is in

00:44:13   the sky and then for the two minutes of

00:44:15   totality not only is it strange to have

00:44:18   like Knight thrust upon you so quickly

00:44:21   there is like an eeriness to it because

00:44:23   everything else is like de still so like

00:44:26   the birds are all out and animals are

00:44:28   around and suddenly they're quite

00:44:29   confused so some interesting things

00:44:31   happen but the most important thing is

00:44:33   it just looks really beautiful the way

00:44:35   you see the corona and look at the

00:44:38   diamond ring phenomena and the

00:44:40   glistening around the edge of the Sun

00:44:42   this black disc in the sky with the

00:44:43   light around it but the other thing

00:44:45   that's seeing a total eclipse in real

00:44:47   life impressed upon me that is never

00:44:50   conveyed in photos this is what I'm

00:44:52   wondering like what is the in presence

00:44:53   experience yeah there is something

00:44:55   that's not conveyed in photos and this

00:44:56   will sound silly because I know how far

00:44:58   away all these objects are right but

00:45:01   there is like a kind of three

00:45:03   dimensionality to it that's hard to

00:45:05   explain it doesn't just look like a flat

00:45:07   photo or a video it feels more

00:45:09   three-dimensional and almost feels like

00:45:11   you could reach out and touch it it's

00:45:13   got this really weird quality to it and

00:45:15   I was talking to a very good friend

00:45:17   Destin beforehand who did watch the

00:45:19   Eclipse I would have been severely

00:45:20   disappointed if Destin had not seen the

00:45:22   Eclipse and who also I must say did

00:45:24   invite me to go and watch it with him

00:45:25   and tried to accommodate me so he was

00:45:27   very kind but I couldn't make it and he

00:45:29   also took an incredible photo of the

00:45:32   International Space Station transiting

00:45:34   the Sun partway through the Eclipse so

00:45:37   make sure you go and check that out and

00:45:38   whatever other videos Destin has

00:45:40   produced about it because I'm sure

00:45:41   they'll be brilliant although I have not

00:45:42   yet seen them but when I was talking to

00:45:44   Destin beforehand I said to him whatever

00:45:47   you do like make sure you put your

00:45:48   camera down at some point and look at it

00:45:50   because there's something about seeing

00:45:52   it that no photo will convey and you

00:45:54   should just stop and look at it for a

00:45:55   minute because that's the best thing

00:45:57   about it and afterwards like he said I

00:46:01   even stopped taking photos I almost

00:46:03   forgot to take photos because looking at

00:46:05   it was what it was all about and he

00:46:06   couldn't have agreed more hmmm as I said

00:46:09   do you agree like no photo can explain

00:46:10   what that looks like and he said 100%

00:46:12   great hmm maybe you're talking me back

00:46:14   into it braiding you should definitely

00:46:16   watch one at some point they are lovely

00:46:18   to watch I feel like your poetic words

00:46:20   are unwinding something about my

00:46:23   experience of seeing photographs on

00:46:25   Twitter of people holding paper plates

00:46:27   in front of their face this one for me

00:46:29   in a way was a bit ruined by the hype

00:46:31   mm-hmm like I'd rather go and watch one

00:46:34   in Antarctica or like in some obscure

00:46:37   place where it's a bit it feels a little

00:46:40   bit more I don't want to sound like

00:46:42   really like like a personal experience

00:46:44   you want to pry yeah I don't want to

00:46:46   like say like more at one with a nature

00:46:47   or something like that where I'm gonna

00:46:49   embarrass myself but where it doesn't

00:46:50   feel like it's just something for CNN to

00:46:52   put another counter on the screen for

00:46:54   right it's inevitable when something

00:46:55   happens in America it's gonna get like

00:46:58   hyped to death

00:46:59   like whenever the Olympics are in

00:47:00   America they're never as good because

00:47:02   the Olympics are like this exotic

00:47:03   sporting event when I was growing up the

00:47:05   Olympics of this amazing thing in

00:47:07   countries you could never dream of

00:47:08   visiting and you can't even say their

00:47:10   names properly and then whenever the

00:47:12   Olympics goes to America it's just like

00:47:14   their Super Bowl you know the Super Bowl

00:47:18   of athletics comes a bit rubbish because

00:47:20   as much as I love America and Americans

00:47:23   they kind of you know they have this way

00:47:26   about things they have this way about

00:47:29   them right that's probably the best way

00:47:30   to say it Brady so they even turned the

00:47:33   Eclipse into like the Super Bowl of

00:47:35   astronomy it had to be the eclipse of

00:47:38   the century this is the world champion

00:47:40   of eclipses it's like it's you know it's

00:47:43   just it's a it's an eclipse I know you

00:47:45   haven't heard one for a while and you're

00:47:46   right to want to go out and watch it but

00:47:48   yeah calm down calm down I'm feeling

00:47:52   like the inevitable name of this podcast

00:47:53   should be eclipse of the century perhaps

00:47:56   that's a bit too mean like that's gonna

00:47:59   set terrible expectations for the

00:48:01   listeners if they see eclipses of the

00:48:03   century are you telling me that the Nile

00:48:05   and gay flag has been sent into space

00:48:08   and you're gonna make this podcast name

00:48:10   about the eclipse you know what it is

00:48:12   actually

00:48:12   it's the podcast of the century that's

00:48:14   what it is I think you've called it

00:48:16   because us sending that flag into space

00:48:18   was pretty amazing and there's more good

00:48:20   stuff to come podcast of the century it

00:48:22   is there we go then

00:48:25   by the way I just wanted to bring up a

00:48:27   little quick thing we talked in the last

00:48:29   episode about positioning your icons on

00:48:31   your iPhone because I've now got this

00:48:32   massive screen where the plus the plus

00:48:35   screen yet so I was talking to my wife

00:48:37   about and I saying how I'm gonna move

00:48:38   Twitter and all my regularly used icons

00:48:40   down lower so I can get to them more

00:48:42   easily and I said you know and then you

00:48:44   know our muscle memory where they are

00:48:45   eventually and everything will be back

00:48:47   to normal and she told me something she

00:48:49   does that I didn't know she did and is

00:48:52   really interesting and I thought you

00:48:54   would find interesting and that is every

00:48:57   few days or so she moves her icons for

00:49:00   things she gets a little bit addicted to

00:49:02   like Twitter and Instagram so they're

00:49:04   not always in the same place so she

00:49:06   doesn't get that muscle memory so she

00:49:08   actually thinks about it like do I

00:49:09   really want to open Twitter yet again do

00:49:11   I really want to browse Instagram like

00:49:14   to actually put a barrier to finding it

00:49:16   to stop her opening it all the time out

00:49:18   of force of habit and I found that I

00:49:19   didn't know she did it and I found it

00:49:21   fascinating and I thought it was a

00:49:22   really clever idea that is a really

00:49:24   great idea yeah it's a really

00:49:25   interesting idea because I mean you know

00:49:27   my attack to this is to take everything

00:49:31   off my phone except the absolute bare

00:49:33   minimum of what I need probably I think

00:49:36   you would say definitely to a level at

00:49:38   which it inconveniences the other people

00:49:40   who have to interact with me yes yes

00:49:43   from Brady there without a doubt because

00:49:45   I make my phone as inert an object as

00:49:49   possible that does his few functions

00:49:50   it's possible right that shall we say is

00:49:54   not a strategy for everyone that's like

00:49:56   that's one step away from cutting off

00:49:57   your fingers to stop yourself using a

00:49:59   pepper what I feel is is the inevitable

00:50:02   is it's like this is how it starts and

00:50:04   it ends in a cabin in the woods with no

00:50:06   Wi-Fi right like that's we all know

00:50:08   that's where this is this is inevitably

00:50:10   going but so I actually think this is

00:50:13   this is a kind of brilliant strategy for

00:50:17   a much less extreme take on it like you

00:50:20   still want to have these things on your

00:50:23   phone because they're useful and because

00:50:24   you like them and because they bring

00:50:26   entertainment into your life but it is

00:50:29   so easy to mindlessly just go to them

00:50:34   and to not really to have that like

00:50:36   lizard part of your brain way

00:50:38   up and think what's on Twitter and it

00:50:39   just goes and it looks and you don't

00:50:40   quite consciously realize what's

00:50:42   happening like that's a really great

00:50:44   strategy and I think that's a really

00:50:46   great option for you want to stay

00:50:49   connected to the world like a normal

00:50:51   person but still break that automatic

00:50:55   reflex that you get over time and let's

00:50:58   be honest is also a thing that many of

00:51:00   these companies who want you to have

00:51:02   their apps on your phone like they

00:51:04   intentionally try to get you

00:51:07   Skinner boxed into that habit of just

00:51:10   opening kind of thoughtlessly so you you

00:51:12   are you do have a bit of an antagonist

00:51:14   in the form of some of those apps I

00:51:16   think that's a really great idea is it a

00:51:17   strategy that you're going to adopt I

00:51:19   don't know yeah I don't know I'm a bit

00:51:21   of a mess with my phone at the moment

00:51:22   like I've repositioned the icons and I'm

00:51:24   not happy and I'm not happy with my

00:51:26   phone life at the moment and I don't

00:51:29   want to share it up because I think it's

00:51:31   a bit of a boring thing to talk about

00:51:32   repeatedly I've just I haven't found a

00:51:34   happy place with my new phone and my

00:51:36   icon positioning and you think this is a

00:51:38   boring topic I'll tell you no no

00:51:41   actually like for me I kind of think it

00:51:44   is a bit of a boring topic but for some

00:51:47   reason it's it's a topic that lots of

00:51:48   people can't move away from people love

00:51:50   this topic in a way that I find is

00:51:53   weirdly intense and obsessive but I am

00:51:55   with you 100% about this again simply

00:51:58   because I'm running the beta on my phone

00:51:59   so it changed a bunch of things about

00:52:01   how and where different apps need to be

00:52:04   but I'm with you like I am it I'm at a

00:52:06   place where I feel veryuncertain with

00:52:08   where different apps go and how

00:52:10   everything is going to be arranged you

00:52:11   know you know how when your house isn't

00:52:12   quite right like you haven't unpacked

00:52:14   boxes or a room is messy and stuff and

00:52:16   like you've got other things to do but

00:52:18   just knowing that room is messy is

00:52:20   messing your mind I'm having that about

00:52:22   my phone at the moment every time I

00:52:23   think about my phone I just feel this

00:52:25   like I'm really unhappy because I know

00:52:26   it's it's not serving me well and the

00:52:29   screens too big I may have made a

00:52:30   mistake

00:52:31   I don't know the screen is definitely

00:52:33   too big like this is an example of with

00:52:35   a screen being too big causing me a

00:52:36   problem right mm-hmm

00:52:38   when you make a snapchat video like you

00:52:41   hold down the button to make the video

00:52:44   and to release the button like on screen

00:52:47   the on screen video button like

00:52:49   to take your thumb off ur involves

00:52:51   having to change your grip on the phone

00:52:53   because your thumb holding the video

00:52:54   button is part of your grip on the phone

00:52:56   so when you lift that thumb off the

00:52:59   screen and you're using one hand right

00:53:02   you no longer have the same grip on the

00:53:04   phone so the phone kind of drops and

00:53:06   slips and moves and that is the last

00:53:08   half a second of your snapchat video

00:53:10   which you then can't edit because you

00:53:11   can't add up snapchat videos now so

00:53:13   every snapchat video I make ends with

00:53:15   the camera - suddenly jerking for half a

00:53:18   second as I lift my thumb off the video

00:53:20   right it's just little things like that

00:53:22   it's annoying and these devices are with

00:53:23   us all the time and it's like a thing

00:53:26   that you have to deal with with all day

00:53:27   long I'm with you 100% to better that

00:53:29   it's it's like having part of your house

00:53:31   not in order

00:53:32   yeah it's worse than that because it's a

00:53:34   thing that you end up opening and

00:53:35   looking at so many times I should have

00:53:38   stuck with the small phone because the

00:53:39   other thing I thought would happen in my

00:53:40   head I thought having this big phone

00:53:42   would give me a battery that would last

00:53:44   for weeks I think I fell into the hype

00:53:46   that you get better battery life hmm so

00:53:48   still when I look down at my battery and

00:53:49   yet again I'm in the red I'm like what I

00:53:52   thought I've got this big ginormous

00:53:53   phone I'd have more battery life and

00:53:55   still my batteries always buddy empty

00:53:57   God's sake I thought at least I was

00:54:00   buying more battery life ya know you're

00:54:02   never winning this race it's absolutely

00:54:04   frustrating gray I'm calling it yeah end

00:54:07   of phone conversation done if this is

00:54:08   gonna be the podcast of the century we

00:54:10   can't have this much phone talk in it so

00:54:13   gray I think it's fitting that you

00:54:15   decided to call this episode podcast of

00:54:17   the century mm-hmm because I have

00:54:19   launched a new podcast I thought maybe

00:54:25   you were paying me in an immense

00:54:26   compliment I swear I didn't set that up

00:54:31   that was entirely your idea to call it

00:54:32   podcast and century you did not set that

00:54:34   up that was redoing that yeah so you

00:54:36   have started you've launched a new

00:54:39   podcast Brady and yep if I may say so my

00:54:42   own personal experience of this is it's

00:54:44   about time I feel like ever since we did

00:54:48   the first 10 episodes and then hello

00:54:51   internet has continued on since then I

00:54:54   have been waiting it felt just so so

00:54:57   inevitable that you would launch a

00:55:00   podcast at some point and I would

00:55:02   mention this to you

00:55:03   over the years and you would say no no

00:55:06   I'm too busy I can't possibly do a

00:55:08   podcast I would say that's okay I'll

00:55:10   just wait I'll wait for the day that

00:55:12   inevitably occurs

00:55:14   well now it's here it's finally here

00:55:15   Brady it is here and I have to say of

00:55:17   all the people who have been encouraging

00:55:19   me to do it

00:55:20   bordering on pressuring me to do it gray

00:55:23   has been top of the list it's something

00:55:25   you've really been encouraging me to do

00:55:26   for a long time oh yeah so if you think

00:55:28   that like I've sticked off behind Gray's

00:55:30   back you couldn't be further from the

00:55:31   truth he's forever telling me he thought

00:55:33   it was something I should do and has

00:55:35   been very encouraging and helpful so

00:55:36   Brady do you want to pitch the people on

00:55:38   what your podcast is about well before I

00:55:40   tell you tell you about and the name of

00:55:42   it I have to quickly tell you about my

00:55:44   co-host or vice host yeah what's his

00:55:47   name his name is Tim no and it's not a

00:55:50   joke it's not a joke as his real name

00:55:52   he's one of my best friends and has been

00:55:54   for a very long time he lives in

00:55:55   Australia and his real name is Tim so

00:55:58   while this podcast has no you know links

00:56:02   with hello Internet it's just it's just

00:56:03   a separate thing that I'm doing

00:56:05   occasionally in my spare time the

00:56:07   co-host is code Tim and this has caused

00:56:09   much amusement so there you go you can

00:56:12   make what you will of that it's a

00:56:14   podcast I'm doing with my friend Tim and

00:56:16   the name of it is the unmade podcast and

00:56:22   the pitch of it is so far you never know

00:56:25   what direction of podcast is gonna end

00:56:27   up going no but so far the idea is in

00:56:29   each episode we discuss ideas for

00:56:33   podcasts that would be fun to make and

00:56:35   then we talk about each other's ideas

00:56:36   and whether we think they're good ideas

00:56:38   or bad ideas and it's supposed to be

00:56:39   funny so sometimes it's a serious idea

00:56:42   more often than not there's silly ideas

00:56:44   and we each pitch two ideas to each

00:56:46   other per episode and then we just chat

00:56:48   about them and joke around and see where

00:56:51   the conversation goes and it's been

00:56:53   quite good fun to make so unmade podcast

00:56:55   because their podcasts that will

00:56:57   probably always be unmade it's a tea is

00:57:00   Brady it's an eternal teas for these

00:57:02   podcasts that people are going to want

00:57:03   can I do a little bit of a spoiler for

00:57:05   the first episode just related to this

00:57:07   you can the first episode came out

00:57:09   before we're recording so hopefully some

00:57:12   people have actually listened to it yeah

00:57:13   it came

00:57:13   but yesterday day before yesterday when

00:57:16   ya recording timeline here hmm so I've

00:57:18   listened to the first episode and the

00:57:20   t's think about I actually got a preview

00:57:21   I got to hurt here in early and early

00:57:23   cut you did you had exclusive first

00:57:26   listen I felt very privileged with that

00:57:27   you actually listened to it before it

00:57:29   was properly cut down to size they say

00:57:31   you heard it when it was still a little

00:57:32   bit ugly but that's okay I didn't think

00:57:34   it was ugly

00:57:35   no but there's a funny thing here so the

00:57:37   segment that you have at the very end is

00:57:39   where your co-host suggests the idea of

00:57:42   a Groundhog Day podcast in which you

00:57:44   were going to discuss Groundhog Day

00:57:46   every day mm-hmm and and I told you at

00:57:51   the time that's a hilarious topic

00:57:53   because it's not viously such a terrible

00:57:55   idea

00:57:55   mm-hmm but I have to listen to that show

00:57:57   it's one of these things like that idea

00:57:58   keeps haunting me I keep thinking about

00:58:01   the Groundhog Day podcast and I feel

00:58:04   like there is nothing more that I want

00:58:06   than to hear you do a Groundhog Day Park

00:58:09   like I can't let this idea go yeah and I

00:58:12   feel like this is what the podcast maybe

00:58:14   is just getting teased about shows that

00:58:19   are not going to be made because it

00:58:21   would be crazy for you to make the

00:58:22   Groundhog Day podcast yeah but I I

00:58:24   cannot let it go I keep coming back to

00:58:26   this idea of every day you're doing a

00:58:28   podcast about the movie Groundhog Day

00:58:30   it's fantastic say another idea that

00:58:34   came up in that first episode was one

00:58:37   that I suggested called I called a

00:58:38   podcast ology and every episode you

00:58:40   discuss a different ology so it could be

00:58:42   biology or proctology or entomology and

00:58:46   that sort of thing and it was more of a

00:58:48   serious idea we joked around about it

00:58:49   was a serious idea and seriously the

00:58:51   number of people who've contacted me

00:58:53   saying like yeah we like the unmade

00:58:55   podcast ready but whatever you do you

00:58:57   have to start that ology one that's one

00:58:59   we really want to hear so I think you're

00:59:01   right I think like as we throw these

00:59:03   ideas around we're gonna get a lot of

00:59:05   people saying that's actually probably a

00:59:07   podcast you should make which is like

00:59:09   maybe it's nice that they think that I

00:59:10   have to say though like to be a bit

00:59:12   better about it

00:59:13   mmm obviously I think about the episodes

00:59:16   beforehand and think I'll what ideas am

00:59:17   I gonna have and I always try I want

00:59:19   them to be funny so I always come up

00:59:20   with some ridiculous stupid idea that

00:59:22   could never be a podcast and I just sit

00:59:24   around thinking about it and within an

00:59:26   hour

00:59:27   I've reshaped it in my head and tweaked

00:59:29   it and thought about to a point where I

00:59:30   think you know what this actually would

00:59:32   be a really good podcast and no matter

00:59:34   how stupid the idea is I always end up

00:59:37   thinking that is stupid but that should

00:59:39   probably get made I'd be pretty good you

00:59:40   know I just I'm just realizing now

00:59:43   somehow this had not occurred to me

00:59:44   before this very moment but it somehow

00:59:46   seems inevitable that the person who has

00:59:48   so many projects that he runs would end

00:59:52   up doing a podcast about an infinite

00:59:56   possibility of potential projects that's

00:59:58   what happened great when when to

00:59:58   what happened great when when to

01:00:00   when I were discussing what are we going

01:00:01   to do a podcast about we had three or

01:00:03   four ideas and we kept changing the idea

01:00:06   because each day we thought we had a

01:00:07   better idea and it got to a point where

01:00:09   I was saying you know all these ideas

01:00:10   are so interesting that we're talking

01:00:11   about why don't we just make the podcast

01:00:13   about all the ideas we're having for a

01:00:15   podcast so that's what we're doing I

01:00:17   have had a couple of little observations

01:00:19   I wanted to share though there's

01:00:20   something I wanted to say about it

01:00:21   because hello Internet you run the show

01:00:24   on hello Internet and you do all the

01:00:25   behind-the-scenes stuff and run all the

01:00:27   technical stuff and I've actually always

01:00:29   been quite oblivious to it so I've had

01:00:31   to learn how to do all that stuff cuz

01:00:33   I'm running this new one and it has made

01:00:36   me realize a few things and it has made

01:00:38   me feel like I need to make like a small

01:00:40   apology to you because like to make the

01:00:45   apology I will first have to admit to a

01:00:47   slightly uncharitable thought I had

01:00:48   about you mmm-hmm and that was before we

01:00:51   started like working together properly

01:00:53   and we were just friends and I watched

01:00:55   your videos I always thought that you

01:00:57   were this really like accurate

01:00:59   meticulous guy because your videos are

01:01:01   all about you know really good accurate

01:01:03   explaining things that are researched

01:01:05   and the videos are all so well prepared

01:01:07   and well executed so I had this image of

01:01:09   you okay and that's where this apology

01:01:11   is going okay well when we started

01:01:13   working together more and I started

01:01:15   having more communication with you but

01:01:16   also you started doing like hello

01:01:18   internet stuff I would like occasionally

01:01:20   find little things like a little typo or

01:01:23   something that I thought was a little

01:01:24   bit sloppy like a space missing or there

01:01:26   should be a you know just little tiny

01:01:28   things that I had little details that I

01:01:30   thought weren't perfect mm-hmm and I

01:01:32   thought you know you know fair enough

01:01:36   that's okay I've now realized that when

01:01:40   you are doing a podcast and you were

01:01:41   doing all this stuff behind the scenes

01:01:43   on hello Internet it is such a Fafi job

01:01:47   mm-hmm there are so many different

01:01:49   little things to do there are so many

01:01:50   bowls to keep in the air at once so many

01:01:53   little fields and things you have to

01:01:54   fill out and bits and pieces to do that

01:01:57   those little mistakes that I thought you

01:01:59   were making because you just weren't

01:02:00   paying attention to detail that was not

01:02:02   the case at all there's just too much to

01:02:04   do and like it just gets away from you

01:02:06   all this stuff really quickly like I'm

01:02:09   sure it will become more routine in time

01:02:11   but at the moment I'm finding

01:02:13   all the stuff you do on the technical

01:02:14   side of a podcast is really like I feel

01:02:16   like a duck really paddling really fast

01:02:18   underwater so all those times when

01:02:20   you've made a little mistake here or

01:02:21   there in a webpage and I was texting you

01:02:23   saying gray I think you need to fix this

01:02:24   on that webpage because it doesn't look

01:02:26   absolutely perfect I take all that back

01:02:28   I now realize what you were doing and

01:02:31   you did a very good job so apologies for

01:02:33   those thoughts

01:02:35   thank you I accept your apology for your

01:02:37   silent thoughts all right but now you do

01:02:38   see why I made originally like a hundred

01:02:41   point here's all the switches you need

01:02:43   to flip and all those things that you

01:02:45   need to do it is you use the right word

01:02:47   it is a remarkably Fafi job with just a

01:02:50   like a whole bunch of picky little

01:02:51   things that are really easy to forget

01:02:52   when you're launching a podcast so now

01:02:55   that you are at the helm of your other

01:02:58   show this burden of responsibility falls

01:03:01   on you as the captain of that show a

01:03:03   couple more little observations one is

01:03:05   just and this is something that's true

01:03:06   for any project but I've just been

01:03:07   reminded of it because I haven't started

01:03:09   like a new project since objectivity

01:03:12   how long has objectivity been running

01:03:14   now well over two years somehow that

01:03:16   makes me feel really old and it's

01:03:19   reminded me how all-consuming and what a

01:03:22   narcotic it can be tada

01:03:23   do like something new hmm like because

01:03:27   the unmade podcast is like it's taken us

01:03:30   seriously I'm not joking here it's taken

01:03:31   us a year to record a few episodes

01:03:33   because we're both so busy so I'm not

01:03:35   sure what the future of this podcast is

01:03:37   if it's gonna be just a few episodes

01:03:39   occasionally or it's gonna be regular at

01:03:41   the moment regular looks difficult but

01:03:44   maybe it will be I hope it will be but

01:03:45   just doing something new and putting

01:03:48   something new out there it's really

01:03:49   exciting and it's really all consuming

01:03:51   and even though like I'm making no money

01:03:54   from it and I shouldn't be doing it and

01:03:56   I should be like doing all my projects

01:03:58   that are like my job right like it just

01:04:00   takes up a disproportionate amount of

01:04:02   your headspace when you do something new

01:04:04   and that's like voluntary because it's

01:04:07   such a drug to be creating something new

01:04:09   and it's such a nice feeling so I have

01:04:11   enjoyed putting something new out just I

01:04:13   mean I still enjoy every new episode of

01:04:15   Hello internet and every new episode of

01:04:16   numberphile and every new episode of

01:04:18   everything I do but the whole project

01:04:20   being new is like another level up isn't

01:04:22   it yeah there is a very very different

01:04:24   thing

01:04:24   if someone searches back through my

01:04:26   Twitter history I think I made a comment

01:04:27   exactly along these lines when we

01:04:29   launched hello Internet

01:04:31   about how it's so exciting and different

01:04:33   to launch a new project into the world

01:04:37   it's not like anything else it's not

01:04:41   like uploading videos to your existing

01:04:42   channel it's not like continuing to

01:04:44   produce episodes of a thing that you

01:04:45   already do this is also why I think that

01:04:48   in the world of just being people who

01:04:51   have to create things for a living the

01:04:54   other side of this is that you do have a

01:04:55   kind of siren song of new projects

01:04:58   always attracting you away from your

01:05:00   current work because of that excitement

01:05:02   I'm glad that you're being able to

01:05:03   experience that and I'm particularly

01:05:05   shocked to realize that it has been two

01:05:07   years since you did that with

01:05:09   objectivity The Brady in my head is

01:05:11   always just spawning new channels

01:05:12   constant I think it's getting closer to

01:05:14   three years there's like a hundred and

01:05:15   twenty other episodes so let's not say

01:05:17   that let's just say - let's just say -

01:05:18   I'll feel better about that yeah another

01:05:23   thing I noticed the idea of this podcast

01:05:24   as we've said is just to come up with

01:05:26   ideas for podcasts and we usually give

01:05:28   them a name and I find this very easy

01:05:30   coming up with ideas and giving them a

01:05:33   name but do you know what's funny what

01:05:36   an incredibly difficult process it was

01:05:38   to actually name this podcast it was so

01:05:40   difficult like every other idea I have

01:05:42   in the show I give it a name like just

01:05:44   off the top of my head straight away and

01:05:45   just seems like a natural fit and I'm

01:05:47   usually pretty happy with it but this

01:05:48   was really difficult as you know cuz I

01:05:50   was I was lamenting to you coming up

01:05:52   with the name you seemed pretty

01:05:53   desperate and I message about names it

01:05:56   was such a heard show to name the

01:05:58   branding of it and the look of it was

01:05:59   quite easy cuz I got like really good

01:06:01   artists to do it the branding was easy

01:06:02   because you didn't do that part yeah and

01:06:04   also he did double the branding based on

01:06:07   earlier name and then I called him up

01:06:08   and said no we're not doing that name so

01:06:09   he had to start again but anyway it was

01:06:12   very hard to name how did you name hello

01:06:14   Internet cuz that was your idea we

01:06:16   bounced around ideas a little bit you

01:06:18   know forever ago about naming the

01:06:19   podcast but it was mainly like we kind

01:06:21   of knew that the show wasn't going to be

01:06:23   about anything in particular so we had

01:06:25   to pick a name that wasn't really

01:06:26   anything in particular I'm not sure that

01:06:29   hello internet is the best name for this

01:06:32   show as it currently exists but it

01:06:34   doesn't matter because especially with a

01:06:36   show like this one

01:06:38   the name just becomes the thing as long

01:06:41   as it the name doesn't have some

01:06:43   specific meaning then it just becomes

01:06:46   what it is hello Internet is the name of

01:06:47   this show even if for someone who's a

01:06:50   new listener does that name make any

01:06:52   sense like it doesn't really but it just

01:06:55   is what it is cuz I was having this

01:06:57   discussion I was discussing with my wife

01:06:59   and I was saying am I worrying too much

01:07:00   about the name I said the same thing I

01:07:02   said you know the show if the show's

01:07:04   good that's what matters and then the

01:07:05   name just fits the show yeah without a

01:07:06   doubt and I even said to her I mean look

01:07:08   at hello Internet that's not a

01:07:09   particularly good name and that's become

01:07:10   very successful and she said hello Anton

01:07:13   it's a really good name and I had never

01:07:15   thought of it as a good name before so I

01:07:17   think it's just a name I wouldn't say

01:07:19   that it's a particularly good name I

01:07:20   think it ends up having really good

01:07:22   associations for the people who listen

01:07:24   to the show because they like the show

01:07:25   and then that's the name I think the

01:07:26   name only matters if you're trying to

01:07:28   really be about a specific thing and

01:07:31   capture the audience for that thing they

01:07:35   give you were launching a new podcast

01:07:37   talking about all of the exciting new

01:07:39   economies of scale in outer space and

01:07:42   you wanted people who are really into

01:07:43   that kind of thing to listen to your

01:07:44   show then you need to have a title that

01:07:46   describes what that show is about you

01:07:49   know mining for cheaper and outer space

01:07:52   podcast show right that's the name you

01:07:54   need so that people know what it

01:07:55   actually is but I think for for these

01:07:57   cut like for two dudes talking kinds of

01:07:59   shows it doesn't really matter what the

01:08:00   name I think I'm just running through my

01:08:03   mental list of the shows that I listen

01:08:05   to that are you know maybe ostensibly

01:08:07   about a thing or ostensibly have a

01:08:09   format but are really just about liking

01:08:11   who the hosts are none of those names

01:08:13   really matter none of them are really

01:08:14   descriptive about what the show is and

01:08:16   it doesn't make any difference because

01:08:17   you're listening for the people you're

01:08:19   not listening for the specific yeah

01:08:23   content the unmade podcast does have a

01:08:25   bit more of a format than Halloween

01:08:26   snare though it does but ultimately I

01:08:29   like from having listened to the first

01:08:30   episode and of course we know better

01:08:32   than anybody like shows aren't what they

01:08:34   start as necessarily they grow and they

01:08:36   become their own thing it has more of a

01:08:39   format but ultimately again it that is a

01:08:42   show that at least from the first

01:08:44   episode strikes me as very much as it is

01:08:46   the conversation between the two of you

01:08:48   is the thing

01:08:50   which is also why like when we were

01:08:51   talking on iMessage I was in the same

01:08:53   camp as your wife of you need to pick a

01:08:55   name but the name is not going to make

01:08:57   or break the show the content is the

01:08:59   thing that's going to do that mm-hmm I'd

01:09:01   like to ask you to because I have been

01:09:04   expectant and sort of harassing you

01:09:06   about when are you going to finally do a

01:09:08   podcast yeah is there something that

01:09:11   made this finally happened now as

01:09:14   opposed to a year ago like is there a

01:09:16   series of events that brought this into

01:09:17   being or was it something that you just

01:09:19   decided now was the time that you you

01:09:22   wanted to do this basically what took so

01:09:24   long we started a year ago I'm not

01:09:26   joking it actually I looked at the day

01:09:27   and I think the first one we recorded

01:09:29   was actually a year ago this month hmm

01:09:31   and just recently we recorded our third

01:09:34   episode that we're happy with I didn't

01:09:37   want to release a podcast like one

01:09:39   episode and then never released another

01:09:40   one I wanted to have three made mm-hmm

01:09:43   so that even if people aren't that into

01:09:44   it so it doesn't become a thing I could

01:09:46   release three like a trilogy mmm

01:09:48   so I didn't want to release it until I

01:09:50   had made three and at the very least so

01:09:53   now that there's three I feel like okay

01:09:54   now let's see what people think and if

01:09:56   they like it we'll make more and if they

01:09:58   don't like it well or at least three and

01:10:00   people can enjoy those three episodes as

01:10:02   a thing that I did once with my mate

01:10:04   mm-hmm that's really what the tipping

01:10:06   point was and also to get to a point

01:10:08   where I was thinking if I don't do this

01:10:10   I'll never do it I had someone make a

01:10:12   youtube video recently that was of

01:10:14   something I'd been planning to do for

01:10:15   about two years and I could have done

01:10:17   two years ago and I hadn't and they

01:10:19   released a video and I was like you

01:10:22   can't just sit on stuff you idiot yeah

01:10:24   if you want to do things do things maybe

01:10:26   that catalyzed me to in some way I'm not

01:10:27   sure I'm gonna think come on do crap

01:10:30   Brady so so we've put it out there yeah

01:10:34   because you certainly don't do enough as

01:10:36   it is you better get off your body for

01:10:38   some more well I'm gonna see what

01:10:39   happens but thank you for letting me

01:10:41   discuss it in such depth here and how

01:10:43   their internet oh yeah but I'm very

01:10:45   happy that it's out there and and I

01:10:46   think people should go listen go give it

01:10:48   a try yeah unmade dot FM and may FM

01:10:52   that's right and that's as good a jump

01:10:53   off point is anyway and that's got all

01:10:54   the links and it's I think you can

01:10:56   search for it now on some of the usual

01:10:58   places so don't like stop listening to

01:11:00   hello internet now but maybe at the end

01:11:02   of the show go and check it out

01:11:04   if you've got an idea something you want

01:11:07   to do in business or maybe just for fun

01:11:09   you're almost certainly gonna need a web

01:11:11   domain it could be a classic with

01:11:13   something like dot-com or.net or maybe

01:11:16   dot F M for a podcast or you might want

01:11:19   something zany like dot dog for that new

01:11:22   pet walking business dot poker for that

01:11:24   card sharp consultancy or dot space for

01:11:27   your new asteroid mining enterprise

01:11:29   whatever your grand plan don't sit

01:11:31   around waiting for someone else to get

01:11:33   all the best names go to Harvard calm

01:11:35   and reserved one right now I've been

01:11:38   using hover quite a bit over the last

01:11:40   week launching a new podcast and I have

01:11:42   to say I've yet again been super

01:11:44   impressed by what a pleasure it is to

01:11:47   use super easy to search for what's

01:11:49   available and then buying the name all

01:11:51   for yourself is done in just a few

01:11:53   clicks from there everything else you

01:11:56   might want to do managing the domains is

01:11:58   so smooth and and this is me talking

01:12:01   it's idiot-proof I've been able to

01:12:04   divert domains I've reserved other sites

01:12:07   or link them with services like

01:12:08   Squarespace and just a few super simple

01:12:11   and well explained steps they've got

01:12:14   this thing called hover connect which

01:12:15   does it all for you I wish this had been

01:12:17   around like 10 years ago when I was

01:12:19   practically crying myself to sleep every

01:12:21   night trying to understand domain names

01:12:23   hover has all the good stuff you'd want

01:12:26   like free who is privacy and great

01:12:28   customer support go to hover calm /h I

01:12:33   for 10 percent of your first purchase

01:12:37   that's hover.com /h I al thanks to hover

01:12:43   for supporting this episode and by the

01:12:45   way if my Australian English hybrid

01:12:48   pronunciation of hover is confusing

01:12:50   that's hover for you Americans spell it

01:12:54   h o v ER like a hovercraft we have a

01:13:00   topic Brady that we want to talk about

01:13:01   but I feel like I have just spent this

01:13:05   afternoon in preparation for catching up

01:13:08   on a whole big story that I was dimly

01:13:10   aware existed which is this

01:13:14   lawsuit that has been taking place

01:13:16   between h3h3 a big popular content

01:13:21   creator on YouTube and another much

01:13:24   smaller YouTube channel over copyright

01:13:27   infringement and I feel like since I

01:13:30   have caught up on this thing all at once

01:13:32   I'm not really sure how to explain the

01:13:36   timeline or how to explain this whole

01:13:38   event to the listeners

01:13:40   do you've any idea how to how to

01:13:41   summarize this for everybody I only

01:13:43   found out about it yesterday as well

01:13:44   okay you're not up on your YouTube news

01:13:47   Brady

01:13:48   no no I'm surprisingly bad and stuff

01:13:51   like this hmm but obviously this h3h3

01:13:54   people made this video really taking the

01:13:57   piss out of this other video mm-hm and

01:13:59   they showed lots of clips from it but

01:14:01   then they also cut to themselves taking

01:14:04   the mickey out of it yeah h3h3 would

01:14:06   describe this as a reaction video they

01:14:09   use that language themselves I thought

01:14:11   it was beyond a reaction video myself I

01:14:13   think it was more than that like to me a

01:14:15   reaction video is just people watching

01:14:16   things going Oh gross haha that's funny

01:14:20   but they like took this one to pieces

01:14:22   like they did a real job on him I mean

01:14:24   calling this a reaction video is like

01:14:26   calling what I'd let immediate did to

01:14:29   style was a reaction video like I think

01:14:31   this was more in that genre of like a

01:14:34   really harsh critique and it wasn't just

01:14:36   like passively reacting to it though I

01:14:39   think it was probably quite fair the

01:14:41   other guy didn't they went to court

01:14:44   hdhd have one there's been this

01:14:46   judgement in which the judge has said

01:14:49   this was not defamatory because which

01:14:50   was also part of the lawsuit and this

01:14:52   was fair use this was fair criticism

01:14:54   which is being hailed as a big victory

01:14:58   for fair use but the judge also said in

01:15:00   like a footnote in the judgement while

01:15:02   this is fair use I'm not applying this

01:15:05   to the other sort of brand of reaction

01:15:08   videos where people are more just

01:15:10   watching and really is using the content

01:15:12   so the judge herself has basically said

01:15:14   there are two types of reaction videos

01:15:17   those that I think are fair use and

01:15:20   those that I'm not commenting on which

01:15:22   reading between the lines says I don't

01:15:24   think a fair use interesting I feel like

01:15:26   I'm I have a

01:15:27   a little bit of a different subjective

01:15:29   take on it I think if you imagine

01:15:30   there's a spectrum and in my head I

01:15:33   picked the red letter media thing as an

01:15:34   example of one extreme end of the

01:15:36   spectrum yes taking out the word react

01:15:38   videos for a moment there is this

01:15:40   question of you want to make a video

01:15:43   about something that somebody else has

01:15:46   made they've made a YouTube video or

01:15:48   maybe they have made Star Wars whatever

01:15:51   it is you want to make a video about a

01:15:53   thing that somebody else has made on one

01:15:56   end of the spectrum is what I think is

01:15:59   the worst and awful is the pure react

01:16:02   video which as you were saying before is

01:16:04   somebody just puts a webcam on their

01:16:07   face and you see them watching a thing

01:16:09   they watch the thing in its entirety and

01:16:12   the worst of them say very little or

01:16:15   just chuckle or make facial expressions

01:16:17   and do almost nothing yeah that's one

01:16:20   end of the spectrum and then on the

01:16:21   other end of the spectrum I think you

01:16:23   you have something like red letter media

01:16:24   as a perfect example of yeah they have

01:16:27   taken Star Wars they've used an enormous

01:16:29   amount of footage from it but they have

01:16:31   essentially made an entirely brand-new

01:16:34   thing yes that and they're like that is

01:16:37   the clearest case of fair use that can

01:16:39   possibly exist and then the react the

01:16:42   pure react video is the absolute worst

01:16:46   use case that there possibly is yeah and

01:16:49   something like what h3h3 made is in

01:16:53   between those two extremes it's not red

01:16:55   letter media but it's also not them just

01:16:57   filming their faces doing nothing

01:16:59   my personal subjective take is that it's

01:17:02   closer to the pure reaction video than

01:17:06   it is to the red letter media end of

01:17:09   that spectrum hmm but ultimately that is

01:17:12   a subjective call like if I was a judge

01:17:15   I would say I would say what they did

01:17:18   was fair use but it feels to me like

01:17:21   it's much closer to the pure react end

01:17:23   of the spectrum where it's like if we

01:17:25   turn this dial down a lot more then it

01:17:29   starts becoming a little bit of a gray

01:17:30   area that at least that's that's my

01:17:32   particular feel for it

01:17:34   I mean I agree there is like this

01:17:35   blurred spectrum and I think your two

01:17:38   extreme ends are correct

01:17:39   I watched the h3h

01:17:41   a video that caused the whole kerfuffle

01:17:43   hmm and I thought you know I think he's

01:17:46   sued because they were taking the piss

01:17:47   out of him and if they'd said this was a

01:17:48   magnificent video mm-hmm he wouldn't

01:17:50   have sued so really he got he's knows

01:17:52   how to join but the thing I think

01:17:54   decided at and I think it's kind of what

01:17:56   the judge said as well was does this

01:17:59   video become like a replacement or

01:18:02   substitute for watching the original

01:18:04   like if you'd liked this guy what's his

01:18:06   name who's or whatever his name is if

01:18:08   you'd liked this guy who made the

01:18:09   original video and you liked his stuff

01:18:11   could you have gone on to h3h3 and watch

01:18:14   that instead to replace the experience

01:18:17   and certainly you couldn't do that

01:18:18   because they chopped it to pieces they

01:18:20   were stopping at all the time they were

01:18:22   belittling it you know you wouldn't get

01:18:25   the same experience whereas if you just

01:18:27   played the video and put yourself down

01:18:29   in the bottom corner pulling faces and

01:18:31   going whoa

01:18:32   then you have replaced the experience

01:18:34   you don't have to watch both it's funny

01:18:36   that you pick that up because I actually

01:18:37   took down the exact quote that the judge

01:18:40   wrote because I thought this is an

01:18:41   interesting part of it so again h3h3

01:18:44   took this person's video they played

01:18:47   clips of it paused it then talked about

01:18:50   what had just happened on screen you

01:18:51   know and played clips of it right there

01:18:53   and they're making fun of and commenting

01:18:54   on the video and again like mock Regan

01:18:57   and commentary is exactly what the whole

01:18:59   idea of fair use is for like you're

01:19:01   commenting on a thing so the quote from

01:19:03   the judge is because the Cline h3h3

01:19:06   video does not offer a substitute for

01:19:10   the original hmm it does not substitute

01:19:12   a market that properly belongs to the

01:19:15   copyright holder yeah so like we have

01:19:17   discussed on previous shows there's also

01:19:19   this idea with fair use of have you

01:19:22   taken away the markets that the original

01:19:25   thing was created for like God are you

01:19:28   substituting the thing and what I think

01:19:32   is really interesting is though I

01:19:33   watched the h3h3 video making fun of

01:19:36   this guy and they're funny like they're

01:19:38   very likeable and they do a good job of

01:19:41   ripping apart this guy's thing but when

01:19:43   I watched it what I thought is I want to

01:19:44   go now find the original video and I

01:19:47   want to watch that because partly what I

01:19:50   was curious is it's very hard to tell

01:19:51   when you're watching someone who's cut

01:19:53   clips

01:19:53   a thing how much of the thing is missing

01:19:56   right now like how much is this is clips

01:19:58   versus how much of it is the original

01:20:00   thing so I went back and I watched the

01:20:01   original video mm-hmm and it's hard to

01:20:03   say I'd love to see someone actually do

01:20:05   a little timeline but I feel like they

01:20:07   probably used 70% of the original thing

01:20:12   and yet it's interesting cuz I was like

01:20:15   I'm looking at this judge's decision and

01:20:17   I agree like it does not substitute for

01:20:19   the original but I think what is

01:20:21   crossing my mind is it's almost like

01:20:24   YouTube is creating a new concept in the

01:20:27   world which is like the idea of fair use

01:20:30   was originally created for this idea of

01:20:32   like if you watch the red letter media

01:20:34   review of Star Wars does that substitute

01:20:36   for watching the Star Wars movie itself

01:20:38   obviously not right because they're two

01:20:40   totally different experiences and

01:20:42   watching the h3h3 video I totally agree

01:20:44   with the judge like it doesn't

01:20:46   substitute the original markets that

01:20:49   belongs to the original copyright holder

01:20:51   like if you like that guy's videos

01:20:52   watching h3h3 is nothing like watching

01:20:55   his videos without their commentary

01:20:58   they're two totally different things

01:20:59   yeah but there is this idea that's

01:21:02   creeping into my head that watching the

01:21:04   h3h3 video it doesn't substitute for the

01:21:08   original but it does obviate the need to

01:21:13   watch the original hmmm because I was

01:21:15   just aware of watching the original one

01:21:17   it's like I feel I have totally seen

01:21:19   this yeah yeah it doesn't substitute but

01:21:23   it does kind of remove something because

01:21:26   I've only just been think about this

01:21:27   this afternoon I'm not saying they're

01:21:28   like oh that so the case should have

01:21:30   been decided in a different way like I

01:21:31   completely agree with the way the case

01:21:32   was decided and thank God for everybody

01:21:35   on YouTube but it was decided this way

01:21:36   hmmm but I just keep I have the little

01:21:39   wedge in my mind that I keep thinking

01:21:40   there is this idea that this this

01:21:42   concept of fair use was written in a

01:21:44   very different environment than it is

01:21:47   being applied now and it's like I feel

01:21:51   like there's that there's an additional

01:21:52   subtlety to the idea of substitution as

01:21:57   a test for fair use that is being pulled

01:22:00   out by this case in my mind because I

01:22:03   really do think that the h3h3 video

01:22:06   obviates the need to watch the original

01:22:09   which is a new concept in the world at

01:22:12   least that's how it feels to me this

01:22:14   finding as well that's being hired by

01:22:16   youtubers everywhere as a really good

01:22:17   thing for them could come back to bite

01:22:19   them on the backside because if all your

01:22:22   mail on lines and other video stealing

01:22:25   freebooters of the world can turn this

01:22:27   to their advantage

01:22:28   suddenly you know all your best YouTube

01:22:31   videos are going to end up on the mail

01:22:33   online website and they're gonna say oh

01:22:34   no it's that's you know fair use or

01:22:36   we're not taking your market away

01:22:37   because we have a whole different

01:22:38   demographic or right right taking your

01:22:41   market away because we've made some

01:22:42   changes to it that you weren't willing

01:22:44   to make like we made it short we're

01:22:46   catering to people who like short

01:22:48   45-second clips you're catering to

01:22:50   people who like 15-minute in depth

01:22:53   science things like it does open a door

01:22:55   that people may think twice about later

01:22:59   I completely agree and the thing that I

01:23:01   keep thinking of is take the kinds of

01:23:03   videos that we make like educational

01:23:04   videos there's this whole world of

01:23:07   YouTube that I'm just not really

01:23:08   comfortable with which is this kind of

01:23:10   area that is is it's not the pure react

01:23:12   videos but it's sort of that where

01:23:14   somebody takes somebody else's video and

01:23:17   just plays most of it but pauses it and

01:23:20   then talks and then plays most of it and

01:23:22   pauses it and talks like it's very

01:23:23   parasitic isn't it I mean this guy who

01:23:25   made the video that got which I didn't

01:23:27   think was very good but he he made a lot

01:23:29   of effort and he made a creation and

01:23:31   these people didn't really create much

01:23:33   they just sat there and watched it and

01:23:35   talked about it and you could say well

01:23:36   their creation was their wit and their

01:23:38   intellect and their all their satire

01:23:39   they brought to it but I still think one

01:23:41   person has like you know built the

01:23:44   pyramid and the other person has just

01:23:45   said your pyramids crap mm-hmm and

01:23:48   they're both getting the same reward as

01:23:49   if they both built a pyramid mm-hmm

01:23:52   there is definitely something to that

01:23:54   and I'm aware that this world of YouTube

01:23:56   where people play other people's videos

01:23:58   pause comment and continue to play and

01:24:01   pause comment again I'm not a I'm not a

01:24:03   judge here I'm not like the god of

01:24:04   copyright but my feeling is if you use

01:24:07   100% of the other person's video and

01:24:10   only do the pause play pause I feel like

01:24:15   for me personally I would not rule that

01:24:17   as fair

01:24:18   which is why in my head the h3h3 video

01:24:21   it almost sets like the limit for what

01:24:25   is it that I would consider is fair use

01:24:27   but is getting very close to the edge of

01:24:31   what is not fair use because I feel like

01:24:33   if you watch their video and you watch

01:24:35   the original there's so much of the

01:24:38   original in there and they're playing it

01:24:40   all in chronological order and just

01:24:42   pausing and commenting they can such an

01:24:45   interesting legal case but it is it is

01:24:47   like it's setting a minimum bar of what

01:24:50   do I agree with but I feel like you're

01:24:52   coming real close to the edge of what is

01:24:56   actually the fair use and and I could

01:24:57   see a lot of people getting upset when

01:25:00   like you said other people can start

01:25:02   using big big chunks of their video and

01:25:05   and playing the game of how little

01:25:08   commentary can we possibly add while

01:25:10   still considering this to be fair use

01:25:12   and it's like oh we haven't substituted

01:25:15   for your market because watching our

01:25:17   video with our comments is not the same

01:25:19   as watching your video but that's where

01:25:22   I mean like I feel like I have this idea

01:25:24   that there's like an additional concept

01:25:26   here with fair use in the internet world

01:25:29   that needs some exploration and I don't

01:25:31   even know what directions that

01:25:32   exploration would take there is one

01:25:35   thing I will say that I think is the

01:25:36   unambiguous great part about this case

01:25:39   so like well the copyright part is a bit

01:25:42   like ooh I'm happy about it but it's a

01:25:44   bit of a less certain that it's going to

01:25:47   be great for youtubers kind of thing the

01:25:50   part that I do think is fantastic is is

01:25:52   the part of the case which is about

01:25:53   defamation and that is the thing that

01:25:56   could have been really bad for all

01:25:57   youtubers where the lawsuit it seems

01:26:01   like a big part of it was the idea that

01:26:03   they aren't just commenting on the other

01:26:06   guy's video they're making fun of him

01:26:09   yeah and then it's it's like does making

01:26:11   fun of someone on the Internet is this

01:26:14   going to be an example that we can say

01:26:16   here is the bar where we set what

01:26:18   defamation is and that defamation is

01:26:22   making fun of someone's parkour skills

01:26:24   on the Internet right like is that

01:26:26   defamation or saying that like the

01:26:29   treatment of characters in his video is

01:26:31   terrible

01:26:32   like is that defamation now the judge

01:26:35   had some funny language that they go

01:26:36   over in their video about how it's like

01:26:37   it is so clearly not defamation to make

01:26:41   fun of someone on the Internet and that

01:26:44   is a door that I'm very glad was more

01:26:47   clearly closed in this case we haven't

01:26:49   opened the door wider to what is the

01:26:52   minimum bar for being able to sue

01:26:54   someone for defamation because if this

01:26:57   video was defamatory then it's like we

01:27:01   have opened a Pandora's box of crazy for

01:27:03   for what is acceptable or what is not

01:27:05   acceptable content on the internet so

01:27:07   that to me is is the best and the

01:27:09   clearest wind out of this case by far so

01:27:11   great another youtubey thing which has

01:27:14   been in my life the last few days is

01:27:17   this thing where YouTube are flagging

01:27:19   videos that they think unsuitable for

01:27:22   full advertising though automatically if

01:27:24   this is done automatically

01:27:25   videos are flagged as potentially being

01:27:28   unsuitable for certain advertisers so

01:27:30   they'll serve no advertising or very

01:27:33   limited advertising against it I feel

01:27:35   like there was a an asteroid called the

01:27:38   ad pocalypse which crossed the sky of

01:27:42   our YouTube planets and it is forever

01:27:44   continuing to rain down chunks of it

01:27:47   upon the earth this is yet another chunk

01:27:49   of this is YouTube fairly recently in

01:27:54   introducing some AI machine learning

01:27:57   BOTS that are trying to scan the video

01:28:00   for content and automatically determine

01:28:02   advertiser friendliness or not I mean

01:28:04   I've got a lot of videos on YouTube as

01:28:06   you know and I haven't been particularly

01:28:09   affected by this but in the last few

01:28:10   days I've just noticed on a few of my

01:28:12   lesser channels I had a whole bunch of

01:28:15   videos flagged for her did you get a

01:28:17   notification about them being flagged or

01:28:19   did you manually look I manually looked

01:28:21   well okay so I went had a look and I

01:28:23   found some and I can sort of see why

01:28:25   some of them maybe were flagged

01:28:27   automatically because of the headline

01:28:29   like I'll give you a give you an example

01:28:30   of some that were flagged I did one

01:28:32   about viagra which is actually about a

01:28:35   chemistry of how viagra works there's no

01:28:37   sexual content it is literally about

01:28:39   chemistry do you say what the purpose of

01:28:42   Viagra is is it hinted at in a playful

01:28:44   manner hardly at all no

01:28:46   in a way that's unsuitable okay another

01:28:47   one called making nanoparticles in

01:28:49   supercritical water right which is a

01:28:51   really boring science II thing there was

01:28:54   one that got flagged which has kind of

01:28:56   amused me because it was one that it was

01:28:58   a funny film that was unlisted that

01:29:00   Destin and I made years ago called in

01:29:02   the YouTube Mossad room because they

01:29:04   have a Mossad room for staff in YouTube

01:29:05   and we made a funny video pretending

01:29:07   that I was giving Destin the message and

01:29:09   we were being secretly that's wildly

01:29:13   inappropriate for work however but yeah

01:29:14   I remember that one anyway I don't care

01:29:17   it got flagged another one's just called

01:29:19   Subutai mole and asthma again you know

01:29:22   just a technical video about how a

01:29:23   certain chemical is used to treat asthma

01:29:25   and then on my second numberphile

01:29:28   channel where I have extras my big

01:29:30   channels this doesn't seem to have

01:29:31   happened on but on my secondary

01:29:33   numberphile channel called numberphile -

01:29:35   I had some extra footage for this big

01:29:38   video I did about derangements which are

01:29:40   as mathematical thing liked arrangements

01:29:43   are like permutations and it's just a

01:29:44   boring mathematical thing and this video

01:29:46   was called derangement extra footage on

01:29:50   numberphile and you can ask for a manual

01:29:53   review so I asked for manual reviews on

01:29:56   all of these videos I don't think I did

01:29:57   on the message one but I asked for a

01:29:59   manual review on all of them and of all

01:30:01   of them

01:30:02   the derangement one within two seconds

01:30:05   of watching her it's James grime with a

01:30:07   piece of brown paper doing math

01:30:09   equations talking about these things

01:30:12   called arrangements and permutations and

01:30:13   arranging cards in certain order and so

01:30:16   while we've been talking I have got an

01:30:19   email back from YouTube saying hi

01:30:22   numberphile - after manually reviewing

01:30:25   your video we've confirmed that it isn't

01:30:29   suitable for all advertisers Wow as a

01:30:32   result it will continue to run limited

01:30:35   or no ads so they give a reason I use it

01:30:37   too boring for most advertisers is that

01:30:39   the reason is that's gonna shut down all

01:30:44   of numberphile so he confirmed that your

01:30:47   video is snore tastic and advertisers

01:30:49   are uninterested he's quiet

01:30:51   you know if you don't like mathematics

01:30:53   okay but there is no way that it is

01:30:56   unsuitable if this has been manually

01:30:58   reviewed

01:30:59   I am absolutely flabbergasted

01:31:02   I mean it's had 66 thousand views and

01:31:05   like it's not gonna make lots and lots

01:31:07   of money and this isn't about money

01:31:09   you know if they shut down all my videos

01:31:11   fair enough you know it's not that it's

01:31:13   just that I kind of put a toe in the

01:31:15   water here and thought haha that's funny

01:31:16   the system's a bit broken I'll go for

01:31:18   the manual review right and the manual

01:31:20   reviews broken so suddenly I'm thinking

01:31:22   hang on what's going on here

01:31:25   unless this video is going to take a

01:31:28   very dramatic turn at some at some point

01:31:31   in I have to admit later on there is a

01:31:33   part where he does say n factorial take

01:31:35   n factorial over 1 factorial plus in

01:31:37   effect or over 2 factorial take n effect

01:31:39   whoa whoa calm down well down there

01:31:41   Brady I'm kind of a little bit outraged

01:31:45   why do you feel outraged because they're

01:31:50   now saying they manually review them and

01:31:52   they think it's not suitable mm-hmm and

01:31:54   that makes me think the manual review

01:31:56   like the checks and balances aren't

01:31:58   working so your frustration is that the

01:32:01   system is broken I don't mind that it

01:32:03   got flagged because derangement is a

01:32:04   word that I could see could have other

01:32:06   meanings right you know that they're

01:32:08   concerned about I can see why maybe I

01:32:10   mean I don't know why the main video

01:32:12   which is also called arrangement on the

01:32:14   main channel wasn't flagged maybe

01:32:15   numberphile has protected status and

01:32:18   it's a some white listed channel and

01:32:20   maybe numberphile 2 is seen because it's

01:32:23   a smaller channel it hasn't got those

01:32:24   protections but I would also just posit

01:32:26   here that like when people have

01:32:27   conversations about what the YouTube

01:32:29   algorithm does or or any of these

01:32:30   machine learning systems that there are

01:32:33   non human understandable reasons why

01:32:36   these things occur that's just a part of

01:32:38   the way yeah these systems work is that

01:32:41   even if you were able to peer directly

01:32:43   into the code there may be no human

01:32:45   understandable explanation as to why due

01:32:47   to similar videos end up with different

01:32:50   results but that is precisely why say a

01:32:54   human manual review is a necessary part

01:32:58   of the process and it is not encouraging

01:33:00   that it does not work no I've had my

01:33:01   human manual review and unless yeah like

01:33:03   you say unless there's something about

01:33:05   that video other than I I'm a little bit

01:33:07   I'm a little bit upset about it

01:33:09   and like I said I'm not upset cuz of

01:33:11   money I'm upset cuz it's wrong yeah well

01:33:13   it's a it's upsetting as always with

01:33:15   this YouTube stuff because it is a thing

01:33:16   upon which like it's it's never about

01:33:19   any one video but it is about the system

01:33:22   upon which livelihoods depend that's why

01:33:24   people always get real nervous when this

01:33:26   stuff happens with YouTube so I have a

01:33:29   question as someone who has gone through

01:33:30   the manual review process hmm is there

01:33:32   now a button that you can press that

01:33:34   says you would like to appeal the manual

01:33:37   review process no it only just says you

01:33:39   can find more information about our

01:33:40   advertiser friendly guidelines in our

01:33:42   Help Center if they're going to have a

01:33:43   manual review system at all I feel like

01:33:47   it as a subjective experience as a user

01:33:50   of YouTube it's incredibly infuriating

01:33:53   to press a button that says hey human is

01:33:56   going to look at this and you get a form

01:33:58   letter back that explains nothing right

01:34:01   that's just sent out thousands and

01:34:03   thousands of times an hour I'm sure as a

01:34:05   content creator the thing that I would

01:34:07   want to have happen is when you press

01:34:09   the manual review button maybe it comes

01:34:11   back with the judgment that you don't

01:34:13   want but it should also come back with a

01:34:15   time stamp that says like here then a

01:34:18   link to the policy that it is deemed

01:34:22   that this violates I mean I can see how

01:34:24   that would be very time consuming for

01:34:26   the five people they've got doing the

01:34:27   job but I just don't know what the

01:34:30   person did like did the person not watch

01:34:32   it did they just look at the headline

01:34:34   the same as the algorithm did and think

01:34:36   are derangement it must be about mental

01:34:38   illness or something what did the manual

01:34:40   person do the whole point of the manual

01:34:44   process is to understand what the hell

01:34:46   is going on like I'm very happy to use

01:34:48   machine learning to do a whole bunch of

01:34:51   sorting like I understand this like I

01:34:53   said it is an intrinsic part of the

01:34:54   machine learning that it is not

01:34:55   understandable and so then when you're

01:34:57   kicking it over into a human the whole

01:35:00   benefit of the human side of the system

01:35:02   is there is at least the possibility of

01:35:04   understanding and and that a reason can

01:35:07   be given but that's why a form letter

01:35:09   back is frustrating because it's just oh

01:35:12   it might as well have been a robot right

01:35:14   like for all you know the appeal is just

01:35:16   another like it's a peeled app which is

01:35:19   doing a different algorithm to take a

01:35:21   look at the videos

01:35:22   yeah gives you no explanation of what is

01:35:25   occurring like it's not unlikely that

01:35:26   that's really genuinely possible right

01:35:28   that it's just oh it's just a different

01:35:30   system that we have and if the two

01:35:31   systems agree then we say yes of course

01:35:33   it's not friendly to all advertisers or

01:35:35   whatever their their language is that

01:35:37   they use they have used the word manual

01:35:39   which is an interesting word to have

01:35:40   chosen I mean what does menu were very

01:35:43   meaning it it could just be a clockwork

01:35:45   AI right that's that's what it is it's

01:35:47   City right it's marbles and it's rubber

01:35:50   bands but it's still they built a big

01:35:51   machine somewhere that's watching the

01:35:53   YouTube videos it's interesting that

01:35:55   that you mentioned this because I've

01:35:56   been hearing grumbles and grumbles about

01:35:57   this this kind of content system or once

01:36:00   you can it just seems like YouTube has a

01:36:02   very hard time making a correct maneuver

01:36:05   and I manually went through a bunch of

01:36:07   my videos and I wanted to take a look Oh

01:36:08   have I been caught by this because again

01:36:10   it seems like people just get surprised

01:36:12   like you don't get notifications that a

01:36:14   thing has occurred and I look through my

01:36:16   videos nothing has been flagged yet but

01:36:19   you know who knows maybe I have to keep

01:36:20   checking when they update their

01:36:22   algorithm but coincidentally literally

01:36:25   today as I was putting up the YouTube

01:36:29   video for the previous episode that just

01:36:33   went live for listeners hello internets

01:36:35   number 86 banana republic that episode

01:36:39   has the little badge next to it which

01:36:42   says this video is not suitable for all

01:36:45   advertisers review requested had you put

01:36:49   something in the metadata or the

01:36:51   description like was there a word in the

01:36:52   show notes that would have flagged

01:36:53   Tripta sister I mean I mean looking

01:36:55   through the show notes there's nothing

01:36:56   that I can think of maybe the word

01:36:59   pirate we link to the hello Internet

01:37:01   pirate flag is perhaps that's be

01:37:05   rustling is maybe be rustling is a kind

01:37:07   of thing that would scare off

01:37:09   advertisers there's a link to Audrey

01:37:11   perhaps her cuteness is so great that

01:37:14   YouTube advertisers wouldn't want to

01:37:16   compete with that kind of thing who

01:37:17   knows who knows the reason why it feels

01:37:20   kind of ridiculous that a that a podcast

01:37:24   has been flagged up into the system I

01:37:26   have pressed the manual review button

01:37:29   and I can't wait to find out if we make

01:37:32   it through the manual process whatever

01:37:34   that means

01:37:35   for this episode but good luck I don't

01:37:38   know I feel like this is all just this

01:37:41   endless mess that has come about since

01:37:43   the ad pocalypse where YouTube is is

01:37:46   trying to do things that are sort of

01:37:48   undoable for appeasement reasons that I

01:37:53   think might not be super valuable in the

01:37:56   first place like it's a complicated

01:37:58   unwinnable mass this whole thing it

01:38:01   makes content creators really frustrated

01:38:03   to not be able to understand why things

01:38:06   have been demonetised and your

01:38:08   experience of a manual review that is 0%

01:38:11   and lightning is not encouraging this

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01:40:12   to fracture for supporting the show I

01:40:14   think of all the news stories that have

01:40:17   affected me mostly over the last week or

01:40:19   two mm-hmm it has to be a story about

01:40:21   Big Ben which if you're gonna be

01:40:24   pedantic is the name of like oh no one

01:40:27   cares no don't don't even give in to

01:40:29   those people don't just ignore them just

01:40:30   move right along Big Ben the tower yeah

01:40:32   the big famous clock in London right

01:40:35   what everybody thinks of as Big Ben the

01:40:37   big famous clock but in fact the story

01:40:38   is about Big Ben because it's about the

01:40:40   Bell they're doing a big restoration job

01:40:42   on the tower which I think it's called

01:40:44   the Elizabeth tower that houses Big Ben

01:40:47   it's the tower with the clock at the top

01:40:49   so they need to do all this renovation

01:40:51   and as a result the bells not gonna ring

01:40:55   except like for very special occasions

01:40:57   like New Year's even stuff like that so

01:40:59   they're they're silencing the Bell and I

01:41:01   thought fair enough you got to do your

01:41:02   work you could you know I can imagine

01:41:03   you've got to switch the Bell off and it

01:41:05   just suddenly emerged that the Bell is

01:41:08   going to be deactivated for like four

01:41:11   years

01:41:11   mmm-hmm and at first people were like us

01:41:14   for years okay and then I think within

01:41:16   the course of a day or two people just

01:41:18   started saying hang on a second for

01:41:20   years and then the politicians have

01:41:23   chimed and even the Prime Minister I

01:41:24   think has said this seems excessive like

01:41:26   does it does it really have to be four

01:41:28   years and I agree I think it is

01:41:32   absolutely outrageous that you won't be

01:41:35   able to hear big ben ring for four years

01:41:37   and there's gonna be scaffolding on that

01:41:39   tower for ages as well I think this is

01:41:41   such an important thing in London you

01:41:43   know for tourism and just for the look

01:41:45   of London

01:41:46   I cannot believe anything can take that

01:41:49   long to fix you look at your pair and

01:41:52   they get those sink holes in the road

01:41:53   and I fixed within twenty minutes and

01:41:55   they're gonna take four years to fix a

01:41:58   clock like I know it's a difficult job

01:42:00   it's an important

01:42:02   it's pressures and clocks are hard to

01:42:04   fix and this requires expertise but just

01:42:07   throw more people at it

01:42:08   nothing should take four years nothing

01:42:11   should take four years that's a bold

01:42:13   statement there we go up the Manhattan

01:42:15   Project took four years

01:42:16   I checked it actually took four years so

01:42:20   they're saying they can go from not

01:42:22   having a nuclear bomb to like the

01:42:24   nuclear bomb in the same amount of time

01:42:26   it takes to fix a clock mm-hmm what well

01:42:29   it's a historical repair of the tower I

01:42:32   thought was the primary thing this is

01:42:34   one of these things where I don't read

01:42:43   the mythical man-month right you put a

01:42:44   thousand men on it it's going to take 40

01:42:46   years to fix it to have the most this is

01:42:52   the most famous monument in London if

01:42:54   not the world maybe there's only

01:42:55   probably two or three more famous

01:42:57   monuments in the world do you think

01:42:58   that's reasonable to have it so out of

01:43:00   commission for four years I don't know I

01:43:03   don't know I've been aware of the story

01:43:05   because I think being in London somehow

01:43:08   I was I've been aware for a really long

01:43:10   time that the tower was going to be

01:43:12   covered up in scaffolding for a long

01:43:14   period of time I don't remember where it

01:43:16   was but I feel like I've known this for

01:43:17   months and months and months but it has

01:43:19   suddenly become a story because it's

01:43:22   like people can crystallize around the

01:43:24   concept of the bell not ringing which

01:43:26   has turned it into a thing and it's

01:43:29   happening now it's yeah come the repair

01:43:31   job of the century yes it becomes a

01:43:33   repair shop of the century but when I

01:43:34   when I came back to London from the

01:43:37   summer the scaffolding was just going up

01:43:39   and I took a picture of it at that time

01:43:41   because I knew like oh yes it's going to

01:43:42   be a while before the tower is fully

01:43:44   uncovered again like this has been this

01:43:46   is going to be some big huge job but the

01:43:50   four years thing it's just like I don't

01:43:52   know because it's hard to say with

01:43:54   projects like this what are what are

01:43:55   they doing if they are trying to restore

01:43:58   the tower so that it can last another

01:44:01   hundred years taking four percent of the

01:44:05   time to restore the tower doesn't seem

01:44:07   like a crazy number to me that would

01:44:10   seem quite reasonable if this is a

01:44:12   restoration job to last a hundred years

01:44:14   now if it is a restoration

01:44:16   to last six years then yes there is some

01:44:19   horrible bureaucratic problem going on

01:44:21   with how long the repairs taken what it

01:44:23   is that they're actually doing here all

01:44:24   right I don't know with construction

01:44:26   projects in particular like I'm also

01:44:28   just aware of this in London that I I

01:44:30   like to take photographs of some places

01:44:32   that I know that are under construction

01:44:33   when they're foolish enough to put up a

01:44:34   date and I have a few places where I

01:44:36   have photographs of the exact same sign

01:44:38   as they have changed the date over the

01:44:40   years for like opening for the Olympics

01:44:43   as opening for 2015 opening 2017 opening

01:44:47   2080 right and they just keep bumping it

01:44:48   back I wouldn't be surprised if once

01:44:51   that scaffolding goes up it actually

01:44:52   ends up taking them six years or eight

01:44:55   years to really do the thing like four

01:44:57   years is they're optimistic outcome

01:44:59   right now but they're going to discover

01:45:00   something in the process of doing the

01:45:01   restoration that actually makes it take

01:45:03   much longer can you imagine being an

01:45:05   American tourist coming to London and

01:45:07   Big Ben's covered in scaffolding it's

01:45:09   amazing it's like such a problem or what

01:45:11   I wonder is they're very good in London

01:45:13   about putting up those drawings of the

01:45:15   building on the outside of the building

01:45:16   and if the thing is it's amazing

01:45:19   actually how often you don't necessarily

01:45:21   notice there is I think I have a

01:45:23   photograph was it seen Paul's Cathedral

01:45:26   there was some place where they they put

01:45:28   up that kind of scaffolding and from the

01:45:30   right view like down the street you'd

01:45:32   never know like you wouldn't know yes if

01:45:33   you didn't do you never know if it's

01:45:35   just the background to you and you see

01:45:36   st. Paul's Cathedral the time but if

01:45:38   you've come just to take a photo of Big

01:45:40   Ben which is what most people come to

01:45:41   London to do you're gonna notice well

01:45:43   people come to London to have fun in

01:45:45   Trafalgar Square

01:45:46   that's the primary reason that they they

01:45:48   come here and I think we've discussed

01:45:50   before there are the danger to London's

01:45:52   tourism around that particular tourist

01:45:55   attraction is is much much worse than

01:45:57   this I only mentioned the construction

01:45:59   around Big Bend because you know there

01:46:01   is going to be some nonzero number of

01:46:03   tourists who see the scaffolding around

01:46:05   it with the drawing of the tower on it

01:46:07   who think that is the thing like that

01:46:09   someone is going to have that experience

01:46:11   that's definitely going to put the

01:46:14   drawing on it day oh oh they have to if

01:46:17   they don't put the drawing on it I will

01:46:18   be very surprised they're gonna put the

01:46:20   drawing on there maybe if they're really

01:46:22   clever they can do some rear projection

01:46:24   of a clock on the actual drawing so they

01:46:26   could get the time right that would be a

01:46:27   good thing to do I

01:46:29   think the scaffolding won't cover the

01:46:30   clock itself until the very last minute

01:46:31   but hmm what could be wrong about that -

01:46:34   as possible that's possible here's the

01:46:36   other thing though that I think is

01:46:37   interesting around this this

01:46:38   construction thing like it's going to

01:46:40   take so long

01:46:40   but what has happened like I kind of

01:46:44   love when this happens and I also hate

01:46:46   when it happens is that now what the

01:46:49   bell will chime for is turning into like

01:46:53   a fun political issue where everybody

01:46:56   gets to argue about what events are they

01:46:58   going to ring the bell for right so

01:47:01   somebody somebody made a terrible

01:47:03   mistake where they said oh the Bell

01:47:04   isn't going to ring for four years right

01:47:06   and then as you mentioned like

01:47:07   politicians came in and they said well

01:47:09   well what about for New Year's and I

01:47:11   said okay well we can make the bell ring

01:47:12   for New Year's so it's like no no if you

01:47:14   say the Bell won't ring don't concede or

01:47:17   I don't ever concede because then all

01:47:18   you're going to deal with for forever is

01:47:20   people asking you to make the bell ring

01:47:23   for their idea of what a special

01:47:25   occasion is and so already there's a

01:47:27   little storm about is the bell going to

01:47:30   ring for the moment of the glorious

01:47:32   Independence of the UK when it leaves

01:47:34   the EU like surely Big Ben should ring

01:47:36   for that as like oh no you've opened

01:47:38   yourself up to this problem of everybody

01:47:41   asking now that you have declared this

01:47:43   period of silence of everybody asking

01:47:45   for the bell to ring on a special

01:47:48   occasion like you know in the next four

01:47:50   years there's going to be some dramatic

01:47:52   news event right some tragedy of some

01:47:54   kind and people will be calling for the

01:47:56   bell to ring as respect for this moment

01:47:58   right like it's inevitable that this is

01:48:00   going to happen at the moment they're

01:48:02   saying anything New Year's Eve and

01:48:03   remembrance Sunday it'd be interesting

01:48:04   it's a really really important member of

01:48:06   the royal family does for example in the

01:48:08   next four years which is not an

01:48:10   inconceivable thought it's not

01:48:12   inconceivable that the queen is going to

01:48:14   die in the next four years right I said

01:48:15   it not me

01:48:16   we're not jinxing the Queen here Big Ben

01:48:20   was ringing everyone would be saying it

01:48:22   should be silenced so I don't know what

01:48:24   they're gonna do when that happens yeah

01:48:25   you can't say hey the Queen's dead let's

01:48:27   so bring a bow don't um yeah I've put my

01:48:29   money right now but if the Queen dies

01:48:32   they will ring the bell

01:48:33   right I bet that will happen that's

01:48:36   that's what I put my money on but when

01:48:37   someone dies isn't it all you know stop

01:48:39   the bills that's like birth that's even

01:48:41   the poem isn't it it's when someone

01:48:42   it's an inversion you're totally right

01:48:44   because the Bell is silent we had now we

01:48:47   must ring the bell to not ring the bell

01:48:49   incredibly disrespectful do you know

01:48:51   what's gonna happen what every bad thing

01:48:53   that happens in the next four years is

01:48:55   gonna be put down to the curse of Big

01:48:56   Ben it's gonna be like you know when

01:48:59   local celebrities start dying and think

01:49:01   bad things happen it's gonna be all this

01:49:02   just started happening when Big Ben's

01:49:04   stopped ringing you know I think you're

01:49:05   right I think you're right Brady Big Ben

01:49:07   it's it's the beating heart of the

01:49:09   United Kingdom it's terrible terrible

01:49:12   luck to still the beating heart of this

01:49:15   kingdom and is it a coincidence they

01:49:17   stopped the Bell the same day as the

01:49:18   eclipse of the century I don't think it

01:49:20   is yeah no I don't think it is mm-hmm

01:49:23   it's concerning it's really really

01:49:25   concerning point that you brought up

01:49:27   their curse the big ten I hope we make

01:49:30   it through it

01:50:18   do I sound Pasha yes you sound Pasha

01:50:21   without a doubt I think we could do with

01:50:23   double-blind posh tests on this and if

01:50:25   people would definitely say this is the

01:50:26   Pasha one although because it's like

01:50:28   that old-fashioned type of microphone I

01:50:30   was hoping would maybe make me sound

01:50:31   like those people who did like

01:50:32   voiceovers for nineteen fifties

01:50:34   newsrooms like now having set the new

01:50:38   land speed record out on the lakes of

01:50:40   North America it's pretty good