H.I. #91: Last Man to Die?
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Brady's before gentlemen okay quite know
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how to parse that sentence but when I'm
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like checking my sound before like I
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found into you so I'm just checking it
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on my own mm-hmm I don't know what most
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people would do with they were just like
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I check one two or say hello hello but I
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always sing like I always sing to the
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microphone when I'm doing my check on my
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own and it just made me wonder to CGP
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grey ever sing I can't imagine you
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singing to yourself
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I mean Bria I am human after all if you
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prick me I will bleed right I don't
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think there is a human on earth who
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doesn't in some circumstance sing yeah
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it's a very very human experience that I
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definitely replicate on occasion try
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think like what is the best most
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probable singing time for me would be
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driving in a car on my own that's gonna
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be pretty high probability of singing
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time because I think that like that's
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the best time to sing to oneself okay
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you sing in the shower Brady you seem
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like a singing in the shower kind of guy
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I don't sing in the shower
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Shae I was like my thinking time I sing
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to the dogs a lot do you mean literally
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sing to the dogs or talk in a singsong E
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way no I'll sing to them but like I'll
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sing them a song but I'll change the
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words of the song to make it about the
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so like you know instead of like singing
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like Brianna Gill I'll sing Brianna dog
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to the dogs and things like that
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mm-hmm or if it's songs got the name of
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a woman in it like a love song I'll
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change it to one of the dogs names or
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something that seems like a lot of
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effort for very little understanding on
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their part probably and singing to
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yourself in the car is like a good use
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of your time I don't think it's in our
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case at the time I was simply saying it
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seems like a lot of creative effort to
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change the song to be dog related like
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sit there and like write a few drafts oh
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just sing a song and just change the
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word on the spot there's no effort it's
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not like a difficult thing to do I don't
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think I could change your song on the
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fly like that to me it would seem like
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oh you'd have to really think about that
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I guess if you are as as good with words
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as a Brady is you can just spontaneously
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start singing in the words come out it's
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poor like if this is the line of a song
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that says you know I love you baby you
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just change it to I love you Lulu
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there's no cleverness here I'm not like
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changing all the different words in the
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meaning of the song I'm just like
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changing one word to make it cute about
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the dogs I'm sure they appreciate it
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the question I have is if you're not
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particularly into songs what songs do
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you sing like I can't imagine you
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knowing the words to any songs if more
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just that the like the music plays a
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very particular role in my life I don't
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have very many venues for new music to
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come into my life hmm I just don't
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follow it yeah I think like most people
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you get kind of largely stuck in the
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music that existed when you were younger
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so I feel like there's a bunch of song
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that I have on rotation that are from a
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while ago so you would sing along you
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would never sing without music to sing
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along with you wouldn't light as well on
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the stairs and sing like the first line
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of a song that's stuck in your head for
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some reason I'm literally not sure I
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could do like this didn't even occur to
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me as a scenario yeah when you're
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discussing you're singing to the dogs I
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presume that there's something on the
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radio and you're changing your X on the
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fly is you're singing along to dogs this
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changes the whole conversation baby
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because the singing is along with
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something yeah right and then the song
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is guiding your brain in this rut that's
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a very unfamiliar rut so I couldn't just
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do it spontaneously that's madness I
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don't know how you could do that like I
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wouldn't do a full song but like if like
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one or two lines of a song gets stuck in
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my head and often it's a song I don't
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like like I was at the gym a few days
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ago and they were playing the song hold
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on by Wilson Phillips which is a song
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from my youth but it's not a song I
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would like want anyone to ever hear me
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sing and it's just one line from the
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song it's been stuck in my head for days
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and days song as I walk up the stairs
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and I want it to go away
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but I will just sing it you know I'm
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sorry about that torment Brady this is
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not a frequent experience for me the
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line goes if you hold on for one more
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day but then if the dogs walk in the
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room I'll sing if you hold on for one
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more dog you know like right I'll just
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sing it to the dogs I see the pattern
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here everyone sings to their dogs you
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wait and say I don't think to Lucy
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ah and you could sing actual Lucy songs
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too I used to have a dog called Lucy and
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I had another dog called Carlos and they
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used to be out in the back
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together and my friend Tim used to come
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round and he would sing Lucy in the
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backyard with Carlos to the music of
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Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
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I guess Lucy is a name that has more
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song possibilities than Lulu yeah
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songwriters out there get on the Lulu
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songs when we used to have music lessons
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in school we used to have to sing out of
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the songbook there was a song about Lulu
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it was called don't bring Lulu and it
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was about someone was throwing a party
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and they didn't want them to bring this
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person called Lulu cause she always
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ruined the party
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I often sing add don't bring Lulu to
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Lulu what are you talking about sing out
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of the songbook we used to have these
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music lessons in primary school where we
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had these sing-along books and the
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teacher would then put on a tape that
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came with the book and the songs would
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play on the cassette tape and we would
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like have to sing along it was just one
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of the activities we would do okay so
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you're talking about little little kids
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school okay yeah yeah primary school but
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there was a song called don't bring Lulu
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and all the songs used to sing in school
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they're all burned into my head I still
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know the lyrics to don't bring Lulu so I
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have got a Lulu song ready to roll good
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you should think of to her after the
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show I can't she's not here tonight well
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where is she
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well I'm away for the next few days so
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the dogs are away at their holiday home
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it's a bit of a sad time for me when the
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dogs are away right holiday home in the
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country let's buy the beach by the beach
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they love it they get to walk on the
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beach every day I sometimes think
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they're a bit sad with regular listeners
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or even irregular listeners to hello
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internet we know that you and I have
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different attitudes to supermarket
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checkouts you prefer the self-checkout
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mmm-hmm because you don't like sort of
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awkward interactions with the people who
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are doing the checkout right and I
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prefer to go through with the people
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because I think the people working in a
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supermarket are quicker and better at it
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and I don't mind the interaction you're
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a man of the people you like to have a
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little chat hear what's going on in
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their life this has been well
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established so anyway an amazing thing
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happened tonight like a switch went
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tonight in a funny kind of way because I
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went to the supermarket tonight and it
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was just a quick smash and grab I just
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needed to grab three things dinner
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I just need a three thing look and I had
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my three things and then I got to the
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checkouts there's a long long row of
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checkouts where I shop very long human
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checkouts human checkouts and then right
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at the end are all the self checkouts
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but I was very far from the self
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checkouts and I walked up to the human
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checkouts with their big long conveyor
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belts and their spacious alleys for
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supermarket trolleys and write all of
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that and it was very quiet and there
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were two or three that had no people so
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I could have just walked up and said
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here my three things thank you very much
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and I was suddenly overcome with this
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sense of like guilt or they would think
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I was a bad person for going up to the
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normal check out with the big conveyor
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belt and all the infrastructure in place
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for a trolley and I was just going there
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with my three items I felt like if I
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went up I don't know I felt like I
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couldn't do it I felt like three items
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were too few so instead I traipsed all
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the way to the end to the self-checkout
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where I had to queue and where there
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were people using the self-checkout
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using trolleys with up to like 40 items
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laborious Lee self jerking themselves
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out and I stood there in the queue
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waiting to use my three items on the
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self checkout because I felt this
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pressure or guilt or something coming
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from somewhere that I couldn't use he
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came and check out with so few items oh
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reading two things first of all that
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this story just confirms to me like you
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don't know how to supermarket there's
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something is that that that invalidates
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everything I've ever told me about your
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supermarket use and secondly I feel like
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you're also in a supermarket in an
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alternate universe like who's going to
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the self-checkout with a trough like
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I've never seen such a thing where
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someone goes to the self yet to be fair
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that freaked me out I swear she had at
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least 40 items in her trolley and she
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was very slow I was like why okay but
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does your supermarket not have a ten
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items or fewer Lane that would absolve
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your guilt of having the few items
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yeah and that's right next to the
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self-checkout but once I'd gotten there
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I thought I well I might as well do the
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self check but there were all these
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empty lanes up ahead and I don't know
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whether it's just in my head or there is
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some yeah it's just rescher that's
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happening in society now where if you've
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got few items it's considered bad to use
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a checkout person but I felt like I
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couldn't do it
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okay I think this is all in your head
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but I'm curious madness do you feel that
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there is some kind of social norm that
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is spreading here yet if you have small
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items you have to use the the
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self-checkout yeah I feel like if you're
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like a young able-bodied person there's
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a few items like where I was you know in
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looking all super fit in my gym gear and
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all my style yeah I'm a you know with my
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three items so then if I went into like
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the lane for the people with trolleys or
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people who struggle to do things
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themselves they'd look at me and go what
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are you doing here like okay you're
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doing this yourself you're like what are
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you so you feel like the human checkout
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lanes are not for it the physically fits
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and with small items like is that where
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you feel like this is going like you
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need a bunch of stuff yeah where you
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need difficulty that must be it I felt
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like I would be abusing a privilege hmm
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which I know is stupid and like it keeps
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people in a job if I use that line yeah
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but I felt like it would be lazy of me
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to have used it it just happened tonight
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I would I walk towards and I thought now
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I can't do it I've got to go and do the
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self checkout even though I've got to
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walk all the way to the other end of the
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store and then go in a line and then do
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the checking out myself which I hate
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doing and I'm not good at I have this
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mental image of you walking past ten
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cashiers every one of them with their
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eyes on you watching you walk past
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thinking that guy is part of the problem
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that guy is why I'm gonna get fired next
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week because he won't use one of these
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checkout lanes I know it may be a rut it
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was a weird thing I thought you'd be
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pleased by it but I couldn't believe I
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was doing it I think he just confirms to
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me that we have wildly different
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Supermarket experiences and that makes
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no sense I feel like there's a related
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question here about social expectations
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around the use of common areas in this
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way so here's a question hmm
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there's a bunch of bathrooms one of the
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bathrooms has the handicap symbol on it
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yeah all of the bathrooms that you could
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use except for that one are full hmm
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what do you do in the scenario Brady
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probably white you'd wait interesting is
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anyone there that can see me there is a
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security camera in the in the hallway
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all right so you're looking at like a
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bunch of doors and there's a hallway and
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there's a security camera I mean I'd be
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less worried about a security camera
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the people but this is why I picked that
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in particular there's no human yeah but
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you are not purely on your own if I was
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capable of waiting okay I would most
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likely wait if the situation felt like
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it was becoming urgent I may go into the
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unused one but if I could wait I would
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probably wait what about you I have
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◼
►
always been of the opinion very firmly
00:11:28
◼
►
that those bathrooms are handicap
00:11:32
◼
►
accessible they are not handicap
00:11:35
◼
►
exclusive right I am perfectly happy
00:11:38
◼
►
without any social guilt whatsoever to
00:11:42
◼
►
stroll right into the handicapped
00:11:43
◼
►
bathroom oh so though the times I have
00:11:45
◼
►
used those toilets I actually find all
00:11:48
◼
►
that extra space quite disconcerting to
00:11:51
◼
►
use a toilet and have like a really long
00:11:53
◼
►
long way away to the door and have all
00:11:54
◼
►
that open space around me I find quite
00:11:57
◼
►
unnerving don't you is it like bathroom
00:12:00
◼
►
agoraphobia is that what you're saying
00:12:02
◼
►
yeah kind of like I don't want to be
00:12:04
◼
►
using a bathroom with that much space
00:12:05
◼
►
around me and lend me that far from the
00:12:07
◼
►
door because if like someone opens the
00:12:09
◼
►
door or tries to open the door I'm too
00:12:10
◼
►
far away to do anything about it that is
00:12:12
◼
►
a good point if you forget to latch it
00:12:14
◼
►
you don't have the ability to emergency
00:12:15
◼
►
slam yeah at the door and save everyone
00:12:18
◼
►
the embarrassment of what's happening
00:12:19
◼
►
all it's going to happen is the door
00:12:21
◼
►
opens and there you are exposed to the
00:12:23
◼
►
world I'm picturing that frog walking in
00:12:26
◼
►
there yeah he just opens the door and
00:12:34
◼
►
stands there and smiles at you that's
00:12:36
◼
►
what the Frog does he's not even there
00:12:38
◼
►
to use the bathroom he's just there to
00:12:40
◼
►
watch I noticed that you have changed
00:12:44
◼
►
your Twitter handle and picture to get
00:12:47
◼
►
into the Halloween theme you have
00:12:50
◼
►
succumbed to the pumpkin pressure how
00:12:52
◼
►
ways becomes a pumpkin pressure I don't
00:12:54
◼
►
know about that you did you think that's
00:12:55
◼
►
a fair description of what what occurred
00:12:57
◼
►
oh well I mean either that or someone
00:13:00
◼
►
just suggested such a cracking name
00:13:03
◼
►
you obviously have extremely creative
00:13:05
◼
►
friends here's the thing Brady sometimes
00:13:10
◼
►
you hear an idea and you just know the
00:13:14
◼
►
idea is irresistible I feel like it's
00:13:16
◼
►
not actually pumpkin pressure I just
00:13:18
◼
►
like that idea was too good to pass on
00:13:20
◼
►
and plus unbeknownst to you at the time
00:13:23
◼
►
of recording I was immediately after
00:13:26
◼
►
going to be posting a video that was
00:13:27
◼
►
related to death and so like as soon as
00:13:30
◼
►
that show was over I was like I can't
00:13:32
◼
►
not do this I have no free will in this
00:13:34
◼
►
scenario I'm going to have to change my
00:13:36
◼
►
name to r.i.p gray is not even a choice
00:13:39
◼
►
so are you happy though do you feel you
00:13:41
◼
►
feel pleased with yourself I do you feel
00:13:43
◼
►
like a little sense of ownership
00:13:44
◼
►
obviously because you then put a death
00:13:46
◼
►
video didn't make me wonder would you
00:13:48
◼
►
have done it if you didn't have a death
00:13:49
◼
►
video in the works but I think you would
00:13:51
◼
►
have I think it was a good enough idea
00:13:53
◼
►
that you would to be fair I the death
00:13:54
◼
►
video thing made it perfect it made it
00:13:56
◼
►
absolutely perfect in the world but it
00:13:59
◼
►
was it struck me as just such a good
00:14:01
◼
►
idea and said such again masterful
00:14:03
◼
►
wordsmithing partic of a Brady Haran
00:14:06
◼
►
mm-hmm I think had the stars not aligned
00:14:09
◼
►
you would still have had a pretty good
00:14:11
◼
►
chance of getting me to do that can I
00:14:13
◼
►
just say this whole with this people
00:14:15
◼
►
changing their names to halloween-themed
00:14:17
◼
►
and changing their avatars and that
00:14:20
◼
►
the thing about it that bothers me the
00:14:21
◼
►
most and I don't know if it was hammered
00:14:23
◼
►
home enough in the last episode so I
00:14:24
◼
►
just this is one point I want to make
00:14:26
◼
►
it's not so much my problem with doing
00:14:28
◼
►
it it's how long people do it for they
00:14:31
◼
►
should just do it on the day of
00:14:33
◼
►
Halloween like just on yeah first change
00:14:35
◼
►
your name to something spooky we all
00:14:36
◼
►
have a laugh doing it for the whole
00:14:38
◼
►
month you know did I don't think they
00:14:41
◼
►
celebrate at the end of World War 2 for
00:14:42
◼
►
a month we change things for Halloween
00:14:46
◼
►
for a whole month I have to completely
00:14:50
◼
►
agree with you on that and and also I
00:14:52
◼
►
agree that we didn't hammer at home well
00:14:54
◼
►
enough and in the previous show it's
00:14:55
◼
►
like it could be fun for a day but the
00:14:58
◼
►
length of time it's just too much it's
00:15:00
◼
►
just too long and even the whole r.i.p
00:15:02
◼
►
gray thing i was aware that i felt like
00:15:05
◼
►
it was a little soon to do it anyway hmm
00:15:07
◼
►
halloween is fantastic as we both agree
00:15:09
◼
►
one of the best holidays in the year
00:15:11
◼
►
everybody loves Halloween but doing it
00:15:15
◼
►
for an entire month is just too long I'm
00:15:19
◼
►
also gonna say like I especially think
00:15:21
◼
►
Halloween is a holiday that really
00:15:25
◼
►
doesn't serve being stretched out for a
00:15:28
◼
►
long period of time like Christmas I can
00:15:30
◼
►
kind of get on board with
00:15:32
◼
►
and Christmas from like Thanksgiving
00:15:33
◼
►
until Christmas it's like okay well we
00:15:35
◼
►
just have a time of year that is merry
00:15:37
◼
►
and filled with lights
00:15:38
◼
►
it's the season it's a season yeah it's
00:15:40
◼
►
a Christmas season and I'm fine with
00:15:42
◼
►
that I don't like it with it six months
00:15:44
◼
►
in advance right but I can deal
00:15:46
◼
►
essentially with two months of Christmas
00:15:48
◼
►
that's fine but a month of Halloween is
00:15:51
◼
►
like if we had Valentine's Day and you
00:15:54
◼
►
started Valentine's Day stuff January
00:15:57
◼
►
7th yeah no more Halloween stretching
00:15:59
◼
►
people feet oh come on
00:16:01
◼
►
one day the build-up week I enjoy the
00:16:04
◼
►
week build at work yeah building like a
00:16:06
◼
►
week before seeing the decorations go up
00:16:08
◼
►
but but Lex they sell pumpkins so long
00:16:10
◼
►
before Halloween that I think there's no
00:16:12
◼
►
way those pumpkins are still gonna be
00:16:13
◼
►
good by Halloween I feel like there's a
00:16:15
◼
►
delicate line which I'm okay with sort
00:16:18
◼
►
of fall themed decorations maybe up to a
00:16:22
◼
►
month before Halloween and in that case
00:16:24
◼
►
is like while putting out some pumpkins
00:16:26
◼
►
okay pumpkins a little a little close
00:16:27
◼
►
but like if you want to put out a squash
00:16:29
◼
►
I'm very okay with that right but it's
00:16:32
◼
►
like where do we draw the line of what
00:16:33
◼
►
becomes a Halloween decoration between
00:16:35
◼
►
whatever it is just like seasonal
00:16:38
◼
►
decoration I don't know exactly where to
00:16:40
◼
►
draw that line but I just need to
00:16:41
◼
►
specify you know for the record here
00:16:43
◼
►
that I'm okay with some fall themed
00:16:45
◼
►
decorations leading up to Halloween but
00:16:47
◼
►
Halloween is spiders and ghosts and
00:16:50
◼
►
skulls and witches and werewolves and
00:16:52
◼
►
vampires and all that stuff that's week
00:16:55
◼
►
before tops in the previous episode I
00:17:00
◼
►
said and I spoke on behalf of my home
00:17:04
◼
►
nation of Australia that when we
00:17:07
◼
►
pronounce the word Lego we say Lego and
00:17:12
◼
►
you were quite surprised by this you
00:17:14
◼
►
were like oh what a funny way to say
00:17:15
◼
►
Lego and I'm telling you but it was an
00:17:17
◼
►
Australian ISM I had never come across
00:17:19
◼
►
it was an Australian in Australia we say
00:17:21
◼
►
Lego can you imagine my horror when my
00:17:25
◼
►
fellow Australians started calling me on
00:17:28
◼
►
and saying what are you talking about
00:17:29
◼
►
ready it's Lego goodness is this like
00:17:34
◼
►
have I just alone been doing it all this
00:17:37
◼
►
yeah was this a joke that your family
00:17:38
◼
►
pulled on you yeah I think all families
00:17:40
◼
►
have that thing that they do which i
00:17:41
◼
►
think is kind of strange where a kid is
00:17:44
◼
►
mispronouncing something in a funny way
00:17:46
◼
►
and the whole family just lets it slide
00:17:49
◼
►
for what seems like a really long time
00:17:51
◼
►
like maybe your family did this with you
00:17:53
◼
►
and Lego well anyway I was a bit worried
00:17:55
◼
►
so I did a bit more research a bit more
00:17:57
◼
►
polling a bit more informal surveying of
00:18:01
◼
►
people out there and also reading some
00:18:03
◼
►
articles and it turns out saying Lego
00:18:06
◼
►
instead of Lego is a South Australian
00:18:09
◼
►
thing it's something that a lot of
00:18:12
◼
►
people from my home state of South
00:18:14
◼
►
Australia the capital of which is
00:18:16
◼
►
Adelaide right say so it's actually a
00:18:19
◼
►
regional pronunciation that I was
00:18:22
◼
►
forcing upon you not all Australians
00:18:24
◼
►
probably not even all South Australians
00:18:25
◼
►
for all I know but it's a very South
00:18:27
◼
►
Australian thing to say Lego and I've
00:18:30
◼
►
since learned there are other little
00:18:32
◼
►
enclaves of Canada and the United States
00:18:35
◼
►
like certain regions or states and areas
00:18:37
◼
►
where I was also getting a high Lego
00:18:41
◼
►
pronunciation so there are little
00:18:43
◼
►
pockets of Lego out there but it wasn't
00:18:46
◼
►
like a whole countrywide thing and I
00:18:48
◼
►
just wanted to clarify that I'm just
00:18:49
◼
►
pulling up a map of Australia here
00:18:51
◼
►
because when you say South Australia
00:18:55
◼
►
yeah do you do you mean oh this is
00:18:59
◼
►
embarrassing is the word province is
00:19:00
◼
►
what's the the subdivision there States
00:19:03
◼
►
States okay do you mean the state of
00:19:06
◼
►
South Australia or do you mean southern
00:19:09
◼
►
Australia like the bottom half of
00:19:10
◼
►
Australia I mean the state of South
00:19:12
◼
►
Australia because Victoria and New South
00:19:15
◼
►
Wales which Theora I would also appear
00:19:17
◼
►
to be southern states right other more
00:19:19
◼
►
popular states and they do not say Lego
00:19:22
◼
►
they were the ones who were jumping what
00:19:24
◼
►
do you mean - my eyes is there some way
00:19:26
◼
►
that they're not more southern it's a
00:19:32
◼
►
little known fact outside of Australia
00:19:34
◼
►
but South Australia which is not the
00:19:36
◼
►
southernmost Australian state by far is
00:19:39
◼
►
actually differently than it really is
00:19:42
◼
►
okay you are right but to defend myself
00:19:45
◼
►
if you lived in Australia you would
00:19:47
◼
►
refer to those as the eastern states
00:19:49
◼
►
Victorian New South Wales and Queensland
00:19:51
◼
►
you would say the eastern states where
00:19:54
◼
►
are you from arm from the east coast I'm
00:19:55
◼
►
from the eastern states so even though
00:19:57
◼
►
Victoria and
00:19:58
◼
►
south wales are very southern they are
00:20:01
◼
►
referred to as eastern this is the
00:20:02
◼
►
linguistic southern verse yes yes I just
00:20:06
◼
►
want to clear that up to reduce the
00:20:08
◼
►
amount of feedback that you weren't
00:20:09
◼
►
getting from someone from Perth
00:20:11
◼
►
complaining that people in the southern
00:20:14
◼
►
part of Australia
00:20:15
◼
►
don't say leg oh I know my Australian
00:20:18
◼
►
geography here Brady it's just exciting
00:20:22
◼
►
to hear you talking about these places
00:20:23
◼
►
to be honest yeah do you like that yeah
00:20:26
◼
►
we could talk about a little Northern
00:20:28
◼
►
Territory Darwin Northern Territory of
00:20:31
◼
►
course is not a state right it's a
00:20:33
◼
►
territory there's sometimes talk about
00:20:34
◼
►
giving the Northern Territory statehood
00:20:36
◼
►
but it hasn't happened yet they drink a
00:20:39
◼
►
lot of beer in the Northern Territory oh
00:20:40
◼
►
yeah the highest beer consumption per
00:20:43
◼
►
capita of anywhere in the world well I
00:20:44
◼
►
mean it looks like if you're in Darwin
00:20:46
◼
►
you're very far from everything else so
00:20:50
◼
►
yeah what are you gonna do you're gonna
00:20:52
◼
►
say Lego and you're gonna drink your
00:20:53
◼
►
beer you're gonna drink your beer hello
00:20:56
◼
►
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00:23:29
◼
►
like as soon as we talk about a thing
00:23:31
◼
►
the whole world around that thing
00:23:34
◼
►
changes yeah I'm sure
00:23:35
◼
►
because of the show we are influences
00:23:37
◼
►
yes we are influencers shapers shapers
00:23:40
◼
►
of culture yeah by no means is this the
00:23:44
◼
►
car effect or when you buy a car you see
00:23:46
◼
►
it everywhere it's not that at all it's
00:23:49
◼
►
like it's it's like a reverse the secret
00:23:51
◼
►
right we think about a thing in the
00:23:52
◼
►
whole world around us changes to bend to
00:23:54
◼
►
our thoughts that's just a straight line
00:23:56
◼
►
of causation it's a straight line of
00:23:57
◼
►
causation yeah so one of the things that
00:23:59
◼
►
has happened is we have been discussing
00:24:00
◼
►
emoji we have we've been discussing
00:24:03
◼
►
animal emoji in particular in some
00:24:06
◼
►
detail and B emoji in particular and
00:24:10
◼
►
complained about Apple B emoji guess
00:24:12
◼
►
what emoji is being changed in the next
00:24:15
◼
►
release of iOS Brady really the B emoji
00:24:19
◼
►
is getting an update that Ronna yeah now
00:24:22
◼
►
this brings up a thing that I
00:24:25
◼
►
I want to discuss with you so if you
00:24:26
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look at the link in a hit put in the
00:24:28
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show notes I am it is not just the B
00:24:30
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emoji that is getting changed there are
00:24:32
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five animal emoji that are getting
00:24:36
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changed in the next update to iOS okay
00:24:39
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the B the snail the octopus the whale
00:24:43
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and the dolphin okay on the image you
00:24:46
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are looking at the top row is the new
00:24:48
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version and the bottom row is the old
00:24:51
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version yes can you describe for the
00:24:54
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listeners what you're looking at and
00:24:55
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tell me your thoughts on these changes
00:24:56
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alright well let me talk you through it
00:24:58
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we do spend a lot of time talking about
00:25:01
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emojis for an audio medium but anyway I
00:25:04
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think emojis and podcasts is like peanut
00:25:07
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butter and jelly right they just go
00:25:09
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together perfectly so the old bee was
00:25:11
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like a big fat bully be with little tiny
00:25:14
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tiny stick legs and stinking antennae
00:25:16
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and now it's getting more substantial
00:25:19
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realistic insect D legs and beefed up
00:25:23
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antennae more realistic beefed up wings
00:25:26
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got a slightly droopy a sting yes it's
00:25:30
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true it is it does have a do Priya sting
00:25:32
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is a big bi as well yes sorry of course
00:25:35
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the change of the eye is the probably
00:25:37
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the most significant change from just a
00:25:39
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little lazy white dot when someone
00:25:41
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really wasn't trying to a more sort of
00:25:43
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realistic being three-dimensional dome
00:25:46
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like dark eye with even with a little
00:25:48
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bit of white reflection in it from the
00:25:50
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light from the camera that is somewhere
00:25:52
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off screen for this emoji or the window
00:25:55
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or whatever here okay a snail the main
00:25:59
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changes to the snail it's just got more
00:26:01
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detail that it's putting more sort of
00:26:03
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photo realism in there and again they've
00:26:06
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obviously decided the previous eyes that
00:26:09
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are on the end of the stalks on the head
00:26:10
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of the snail were just too small and
00:26:13
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insignificant and they've given it sort
00:26:15
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of slightly larger darker eyes are the
00:26:18
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bay and the snail also used to have two
00:26:20
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little human eyes on top of it stalks
00:26:23
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like if you zoom in there basically
00:26:24
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human eyes like nose eyes like that
00:26:26
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yeah so yes more realism there a bit
00:26:29
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more realism but not a dramatic change
00:26:30
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the octopus on the other hand they've
00:26:33
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gone in hard hmm because the old octopus
00:26:36
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was quite cutesy
00:26:38
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and was sort of looking at you frontin
00:26:41
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and it looked like something that would
00:26:42
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be a child's toy or something you wanted
00:26:44
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to give a little cuddle to and
00:26:45
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significantly it also has four legs but
00:26:48
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the upgrade they've gone for more the
00:26:50
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killer octopus that you're scared will
00:26:52
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grab a ship and pull it underwater and
00:26:55
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again it looks more realistic it looks
00:26:57
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more aggressive if it's in a more
00:26:59
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aggressive pose oh yeah I just realized
00:27:01
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that actor pussy's doing like a little
00:27:03
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bicep curl with each arm they still have
00:27:05
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an up their game to eight legs they
00:27:07
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stopped at six well you know what can
00:27:09
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you do and you know there's just a
00:27:10
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little bit more texture on the head and
00:27:12
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again we've gone for more sort of
00:27:13
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realism moving on to the whale the whale
00:27:18
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again was super cute cutesy child's toy
00:27:21
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that would play with in the bath and
00:27:23
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they've kind of maintained the cutesy
00:27:26
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nurse it hasn't changed a tremendous
00:27:28
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amount they've put the eye in a more
00:27:30
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realistic place it still doesn't look
00:27:33
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like a very realistic whale and they've
00:27:35
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added a lot more fine detail to the
00:27:36
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water spout that it's blowing at the top
00:27:38
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and finally the dolphin dolphin again
00:27:42
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hasn't changed much it went from a
00:27:44
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pretty kind of run-of-the-mill artistic
00:27:47
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representation of a dolphin that's quite
00:27:49
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cutesy and they've pretty much kept it
00:27:51
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that way but they've just added more
00:27:52
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sort of texture and fluting and designed
00:27:56
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to the side of the dolphin and they've
00:27:57
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made the fins look a bit more real it
00:28:00
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still doesn't look like a real dolphin
00:28:01
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but they've given it more it looks more
00:28:04
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like something that would be a living
00:28:06
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thing rather than a drawing do you have
00:28:08
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a preference for the new versus the old
00:28:10
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like if you have to accept them as a
00:28:12
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package new versus old as a package I
00:28:16
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prefer the old I don't like the path
00:28:18
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they're going down here they're moving
00:28:19
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away from the spirit of emojis I agree
00:28:22
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with you 100% and in fact when I saw
00:28:25
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this image I liked I was thinking about
00:28:28
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our conversation last time about emojis
00:28:30
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a surprising amount you're talking about
00:28:32
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how songs get stuck in your head and
00:28:34
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you're thinking about them over and over
00:28:35
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again I found myself since our last
00:28:37
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recording constantly thinking about like
00:28:39
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what is the Platonic ideal of emoji
00:28:42
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right this is this is an idea that was
00:28:44
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just recurring in my brain over and over
00:28:48
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and while I was thinking that of course
00:28:50
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like our show goes out and then a couple
00:28:52
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of days later Apple as a direct result
00:28:54
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announces that they're going to change a
00:28:55
◼
►
bunch of the emoji and this image like
00:28:58
◼
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this side-by-side image here of the five
00:29:00
◼
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animals and how they're changing it it
00:29:01
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really crystallized something in my mind
00:29:03
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which is like I didn't like the Apple
00:29:05
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emojis all that much to begin with and
00:29:07
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now I really don't like them and it is
00:29:10
◼
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because it's like Apple has lost the way
00:29:13
◼
►
of what an emoji is and the thing that
00:29:16
◼
►
crystallized in my mind is like oh I
00:29:17
◼
►
know what emoji are emoji are modern
00:29:22
◼
►
hieroglyphics and as such they need some
00:29:27
◼
►
level of abstraction like emojis are
00:29:30
◼
►
almost like an alphabet and the more I
00:29:33
◼
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think you make it like a photograph
00:29:35
◼
►
which is the way Apple is clearly going
00:29:37
◼
►
like they're making them more photograph
00:29:39
◼
►
like more impossible to draw the less I
00:29:42
◼
►
feel like their emoji the less I like
00:29:44
◼
►
them and I think there's also
00:29:45
◼
►
crystallized why in the last show we
00:29:47
◼
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were talking about the blobs like the
00:29:49
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Android emojis would draw a family it
00:29:51
◼
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would be a family of blobs like four
00:29:53
◼
►
little blob creatures like oh that's a
00:29:54
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►
family versus an increasingly realistic
00:29:57
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depiction of a family I could never
00:29:59
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quite put my finger on like why does
00:30:01
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that kind of bug me and now I know
00:30:03
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►
because I feel like some level of
00:30:06
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abstraction is intrinsic to what an
00:30:09
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emoji is and if you're taking away all
00:30:13
◼
►
abstraction I don't think it's an emoji
00:30:15
◼
►
anymore like it's just a picture
00:30:17
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►
I mean speculating on what's going on
00:30:19
◼
►
here because I think I kind of see
00:30:21
◼
►
what's going on here and why it's
00:30:22
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►
happening hmm and it all comes down to
00:30:24
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how you use your emoji okay tell me
00:30:26
◼
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there are two main ways that I use my
00:30:28
◼
►
emoji the first way is when I'm sending
00:30:32
◼
►
text messages maybe to someone like you
00:30:34
◼
►
where we're exchanging a series of sms's
00:30:37
◼
►
and occasionally we'll drop an emoji and
00:30:38
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►
to be funny or express something and in
00:30:40
◼
►
that case the emoji is appearing in a
00:30:42
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►
line of text and ideally you want it to
00:30:45
◼
►
be about the size of the text
00:30:47
◼
►
yes it's sometimes it's in the line
00:30:48
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►
right and when that happens they small
00:30:51
◼
►
cute low detail emoji are ideal and the
00:30:54
◼
►
super detailed emoji seem in fact seem
00:30:57
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►
very very useless
00:30:58
◼
►
I can imagine these emoji at that size
00:31:01
◼
►
there is a second way that I use emoji
00:31:03
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►
though and there is when I'm on snapchat
00:31:06
◼
►
sometimes I'll take a picture and I want
00:31:08
◼
►
to add an emoji to the picture and when
00:31:10
◼
►
you do that you make your emojis much
00:31:12
◼
►
bigger where I drag them onto the screen
00:31:14
◼
►
and then you pinch with your fingers
00:31:16
◼
►
outwards to make them bigger and bigger
00:31:17
◼
►
so they become almost a feature of the
00:31:20
◼
►
picture like I might take a picture of
00:31:21
◼
►
the sea and then say oh wouldn't it be
00:31:23
◼
►
funny if I put a big emoji whale in
00:31:25
◼
►
there swimming in the sea right and if I
00:31:27
◼
►
do that the emoji becomes very big and
00:31:29
◼
►
in that case the detail starts having
00:31:32
◼
►
some use and in some ways I see more
00:31:34
◼
►
utility in the detailed ones and the
00:31:36
◼
►
very low detail emojis when they're
00:31:38
◼
►
blown up big become quite unusable and
00:31:41
◼
►
they just sort of look out of place and
00:31:43
◼
►
wrong they don't work so I don't use
00:31:45
◼
►
them so I think what's happening is
00:31:47
◼
►
they're seeing more and more people are
00:31:49
◼
►
using their emojis as these huge
00:31:50
◼
►
decorative ornaments in sort of picture
00:31:53
◼
►
based communication and they're being
00:31:55
◼
►
used to less and less as a punctuation
00:31:58
◼
►
mark in a sentence and maybe that's why
00:32:00
◼
►
they're changing the emojis in this way
00:32:02
◼
►
and for me that's a shame because I
00:32:04
◼
►
still prefer the use of emoji in
00:32:06
◼
►
sentences and text you know in a tweet
00:32:08
◼
►
or a text to someone so these detailed
00:32:12
◼
►
ones are doing me a disservice but I can
00:32:14
◼
►
imagine on snapchat these ones will be a
00:32:16
◼
►
bit handier that's an interesting
00:32:18
◼
►
distinction I have a like a slightly
00:32:20
◼
►
more cynical interpretation Apple is
00:32:23
◼
►
rolling out this an emoji feature with
00:32:26
◼
►
their new phone where you can have the
00:32:28
◼
►
emoji be animated okay I have a
00:32:31
◼
►
suspicion that Apple is setting up all
00:32:35
◼
►
of these emoji as being animated things
00:32:39
◼
►
in the future to maybe integrate with
00:32:41
◼
►
face recognition on their phone or to be
00:32:44
◼
►
able to do things with maybe or maybe
00:32:46
◼
►
not someone spent a lot of time looking
00:32:48
◼
►
through the history of all the Apple
00:32:49
◼
►
emoji and seeing the direction they were
00:32:50
◼
►
going in who knows but if you were to do
00:32:53
◼
►
that there's a clear arrow toward
00:32:55
◼
►
increasing detail and especially
00:32:57
◼
►
suddenly like way more detail I suspect
00:33:00
◼
►
that that's where they're going with
00:33:01
◼
►
this but that aside on all platforms
00:33:03
◼
►
you're totally right that there are two
00:33:05
◼
►
different use cases there's in line with
00:33:09
◼
►
text and there is out of line with text
00:33:12
◼
►
that's totally true
00:33:14
◼
►
but what makes an emoji and emoji versus
00:33:18
◼
►
like the concept of a sticker which many
00:33:20
◼
►
platforms have is that an emoji can
00:33:24
◼
►
exist in line with text that's what it
00:33:27
◼
►
is yeah like I feel very strongly that
00:33:29
◼
►
that is that at the level that the
00:33:31
◼
►
design should be at and at that level
00:33:34
◼
►
you have to have a some abstraction
00:33:37
◼
►
built into the design you can't just
00:33:40
◼
►
have a tiny picture of the thing you
00:33:43
◼
►
have to have some level of abstraction
00:33:44
◼
►
but yeah big giant detailed emojis
00:33:48
◼
►
everywhere that's where we're going I do
00:33:50
◼
►
think your emoji theory is more likely
00:33:52
◼
►
right actually if I have to weigh up my
00:33:54
◼
►
theory which involves Apple saying let's
00:33:57
◼
►
make emojis that are more useful for our
00:33:59
◼
►
customers or your theory which is let's
00:34:01
◼
►
make emojis which will sell more iPhones
00:34:05
◼
►
gee how does that board meeting go
00:34:11
◼
►
amongst the sort of the the first world
00:34:13
◼
►
youtuber problems that we grew up about
00:34:15
◼
►
most freebooting must be up there and
00:34:18
◼
►
I've been at another freebooting victim
00:34:22
◼
►
recently but it did highlight one of my
00:34:24
◼
►
little gripes about freebooters that I
00:34:26
◼
►
don't think I've raised before I know is
00:34:33
◼
►
there some depth left unplumbed on this
00:34:36
◼
►
topic is shocking I think you'll
00:34:38
◼
►
appreciate this one and I think it comes
00:34:40
◼
►
from a confusion that people have about
00:34:43
◼
►
using things fairly fair use and things
00:34:46
◼
►
like that and it's maybe a confusion
00:34:48
◼
►
that someone like you has helped foster
00:34:51
◼
►
with some of our previous conversations
00:34:53
◼
►
although I don't think like you're the
00:34:54
◼
►
root of the problem here I just think
00:34:56
◼
►
it's like because people have probably
00:34:58
◼
►
heard us in the past often talk about
00:34:59
◼
►
you know percentages like when we were
00:35:01
◼
►
talking about that recent fair use thing
00:35:04
◼
►
there was you know what percentage of
00:35:05
◼
►
the video was taken and stuff right so
00:35:07
◼
►
this is what I'll just give you the
00:35:09
◼
►
practical example because this shows the
00:35:10
◼
►
example perfectly I got some alert or
00:35:13
◼
►
something on my system saying or
00:35:14
◼
►
someone's you know free btg video go and
00:35:17
◼
►
check it so I went along and did my
00:35:18
◼
►
check because I always have a look and
00:35:20
◼
►
see what's this is in the YouTube
00:35:21
◼
►
content in the YouTube backend because
00:35:23
◼
►
sometimes they haven't free booted or it
00:35:24
◼
►
is fair use so it's not even my content
00:35:26
◼
►
and things like that so
00:35:27
◼
►
go and have a look so I find this video
00:35:30
◼
►
it's this math video of mine and the
00:35:32
◼
►
freebooter in question has taken like a
00:35:34
◼
►
huge chunk of the video like not the
00:35:37
◼
►
whole video but say three or four
00:35:39
◼
►
minutes consecutive unedited and
00:35:42
◼
►
commented it's just a really nice
00:35:44
◼
►
explanation of a mathematical concept
00:35:46
◼
►
with nice animations and it was very
00:35:48
◼
►
useful to this person so they've taken
00:35:51
◼
►
that piece of my video and they've
00:35:53
◼
►
dropped it into a video they've made
00:35:55
◼
►
that's about an hour long I imagine is
00:35:58
◼
►
made to be like a lecture or a lesson or
00:36:00
◼
►
something it's a big long video and
00:36:01
◼
►
partway through they've obviously said
00:36:03
◼
►
ah to understand this concept here we go
00:36:05
◼
►
and then they'll play my video for three
00:36:07
◼
►
or four minutes and then they crack on
00:36:09
◼
►
with whatever they were doing in their
00:36:10
◼
►
video just drummed it in and in there
00:36:13
◼
►
kind of thing that they wrote where they
00:36:15
◼
►
like defend to why this is fair use
00:36:17
◼
►
their defense was this is fair use
00:36:20
◼
►
because I used four minutes of your
00:36:23
◼
►
video but that is only ten percent of my
00:36:27
◼
►
whole video because my whole video only
00:36:31
◼
►
ten percent of it is to your video
00:36:33
◼
►
that's fair use because that's hardly
00:36:36
◼
►
anything and all the rest of it came
00:36:39
◼
►
from other places so I haven't free
00:36:41
◼
►
booted you and I think that's ridiculous
00:36:44
◼
►
I mean that's a new one to me I haven't
00:36:47
◼
►
come across that before I've seen it a
00:36:48
◼
►
few times I mean by that rationale I
00:36:50
◼
►
could upload all of Star Wars and as
00:36:53
◼
►
long as I tagged another 30 hours on the
00:36:55
◼
►
end of it of me just juggling I can say
00:36:59
◼
►
hey I didn't free boot Star Wars because
00:37:01
◼
►
it's only ten percent of my video yeah
00:37:03
◼
►
or anything like I'm just gonna go
00:37:05
◼
►
around and make a compilation of all of
00:37:06
◼
►
the funniest videos on YouTube right and
00:37:08
◼
►
for each individual content creator week
00:37:10
◼
►
oh but you're only 1% of the total thing
00:37:13
◼
►
that has been created yeah it's like if
00:37:15
◼
►
I walked around Bristol and punched 50
00:37:17
◼
►
people in the face and one of them came
00:37:19
◼
►
up to me said hey he just assaulted me
00:37:20
◼
►
and said hey no no I punched 50 people
00:37:22
◼
►
in the face metaphor escalation here
00:37:24
◼
►
you haven't been assaulted because lots
00:37:26
◼
►
of other stuff has happened so you
00:37:28
◼
►
haven't been wronged
00:37:29
◼
►
so I guess did you see this a lot like
00:37:30
◼
►
people are using your videos in in like
00:37:33
◼
►
a longer selection of other thing cuz I
00:37:35
◼
►
think that is interesting yes that is
00:37:37
◼
►
quite common like someone will make like
00:37:38
◼
►
a big long lesson and you know today I
00:37:41
◼
►
to you all the ins and outs of calculus
00:37:43
◼
►
and to do so I'm gonna like go and
00:37:45
◼
►
cherry-pick all the best explanations of
00:37:47
◼
►
every concept ever and put them all
00:37:49
◼
►
together in a big mashup hmm but it's
00:37:52
◼
►
not like they've taken like a few
00:37:53
◼
►
seconds and critiqued it or used it like
00:37:55
◼
►
it's just a complete section like a big
00:37:58
◼
►
section being used because that's just
00:37:59
◼
►
you know useful to them but don't you
00:38:00
◼
►
want to spread knowledge of calculus
00:38:02
◼
►
around the world I'm sure part of the
00:38:04
◼
►
justification also had some line about
00:38:06
◼
►
are this video is you know it's it did
00:38:08
◼
►
say although I'm making money from it
00:38:10
◼
►
it's educational I don't know what
00:38:13
◼
►
happened but basically I press the
00:38:15
◼
►
button to say I don't agree with this
00:38:16
◼
►
and I don't know what's gonna happen
00:38:18
◼
►
next I don't know how the system works I
00:38:20
◼
►
think after a while YouTube just drop it
00:38:23
◼
►
don't neighbor well you can end up
00:38:24
◼
►
getting all the revenue from the ads
00:38:27
◼
►
that are running on their video right
00:38:29
◼
►
that's the thing that can happen but if
00:38:31
◼
►
they then say no no I disagree ten
00:38:33
◼
►
percents fine
00:38:34
◼
►
what does YouTube do now do they then
00:38:36
◼
►
say well now what do you say Brady are
00:38:37
◼
►
you gonna take them to court if there's
00:38:39
◼
►
this Mexican standoff and you're no
00:38:41
◼
►
one's willing to go to court who wins in
00:38:43
◼
►
it's the person with the copyright claim
00:38:45
◼
►
win right we have this actually with the
00:38:48
◼
►
hello internet video that was uploaded
00:38:51
◼
►
several episodes ago when we talked
00:38:53
◼
►
about the I can't say the name of the
00:38:55
◼
►
song but the Melissa Florian whatever
00:38:58
◼
►
yeah that Italian one right the Italian
00:39:00
◼
►
one and so I put that song in the
00:39:03
◼
►
podcast for people to hear yeah just
00:39:04
◼
►
like a sample here's what it sounds like
00:39:06
◼
►
hooligan debate whether or not that was
00:39:07
◼
►
like too much or not enough right this
00:39:09
◼
►
is always the ambiguities of copyright
00:39:11
◼
►
well greg was only 0.01% of our podcast
00:39:14
◼
►
so I think we're safe yeah I may have
00:39:17
◼
►
used thirty seconds of the song but the
00:39:19
◼
►
podcast is really long yeah but so
00:39:22
◼
►
anyway there was a like as I kind of
00:39:24
◼
►
expected there was going to be there was
00:39:26
◼
►
a copyright claim on that yeah and I
00:39:29
◼
►
went through the little appeals process
00:39:30
◼
►
like I think this is fair use and the
00:39:32
◼
►
copyright holder came back and said no
00:39:33
◼
►
they disagree and the way the YouTube
00:39:36
◼
►
system works which I think YouTube
00:39:39
◼
►
should definitely improve is that all of
00:39:41
◼
►
the ad revenue on that podcast goes to
00:39:45
◼
►
the copyright holder for that song yeah
00:39:47
◼
►
to me seems like a little much even if
00:39:50
◼
►
you were in the wrong and use too much
00:39:52
◼
►
of it which I don't think you did but
00:39:53
◼
►
even if you did yeah
00:39:55
◼
►
fact that from that hole to our podcast
00:39:56
◼
►
they now get all the revenue because we
00:39:58
◼
►
used 40 seconds of their song instead of
00:40:01
◼
►
15 that's nuts
00:40:04
◼
►
yeah it's a weird system it seems like
00:40:06
◼
►
from everything I've seen with other
00:40:08
◼
►
Creators and the stuff I've had
00:40:09
◼
►
first-hand experience on that like one
00:40:11
◼
►
copyright holder becomes the one who
00:40:13
◼
►
wins like who's the one that's most
00:40:14
◼
►
wronged and that person is the one who
00:40:16
◼
►
ends up with the claim on the revenue
00:40:18
◼
►
from the advertising dollars no well
00:40:19
◼
►
what are you gonna do
00:40:21
◼
►
what are you gonna do you got to pick
00:40:23
◼
►
your fights don't you yeah then you pick
00:40:25
◼
►
that fight told that guy now well I
00:40:28
◼
►
don't know what's gonna happen
00:40:29
◼
►
sing we're talking about YouTube fights
00:40:31
◼
►
should we deal with my other one that's
00:40:33
◼
►
bubbling a look at the moment yeah so my
00:40:36
◼
►
other little YouTube problem at the
00:40:38
◼
►
moment gray is I have had another video
00:40:41
◼
►
demonetized put into the sin bin of
00:40:44
◼
►
advertising deemed inappropriate and
00:40:47
◼
►
unfriendly for advertising and instead
00:40:49
◼
►
of that nice green tick you get next to
00:40:51
◼
►
a video saying no you can have ads on
00:40:52
◼
►
this video I have the dreaded yellow
00:40:55
◼
►
tick of naughtiness brainy I just have
00:40:58
◼
►
to ask why do you keep uploading
00:41:01
◼
►
inappropriate videos to YouTube I mean
00:41:03
◼
►
where there's smoke there's fire right
00:41:05
◼
►
you give me an example
00:41:05
◼
►
oh there's one where you're uploading
00:41:07
◼
►
deranged videos to YouTube and you get
00:41:09
◼
►
this slap down but you keep doing it you
00:41:11
◼
►
seem to not be able to help yourself
00:41:12
◼
►
yeah I keep pushing the boundaries if
00:41:14
◼
►
it's allowed you keep uploading all
00:41:16
◼
►
these inappropriate videos do you do
00:41:17
◼
►
that they're not advertiser friendly I
00:41:19
◼
►
don't know what you're up to over there
00:41:20
◼
►
on objectivity those of you who don't
00:41:24
◼
►
watch objectivity and how dare you not
00:41:27
◼
►
watch it why how dare you but if you
00:41:29
◼
►
somehow a measly episode we did a video
00:41:32
◼
►
about this guy called Eadweard Muybridge
00:41:36
◼
►
who you may not know the name but in the
00:41:39
◼
►
1800s was bit of a big deal he came up
00:41:42
◼
►
with this way of taking in the early
00:41:45
◼
►
days of photography of taking multiple
00:41:47
◼
►
pictures very quickly in succession
00:41:49
◼
►
sometimes being tripped by strings and
00:41:52
◼
►
things like that and he used other
00:41:53
◼
►
technology that he pioneered yeah to
00:41:55
◼
►
show things that were happening quickly
00:41:58
◼
►
like a horse running yeah I feel like
00:42:00
◼
►
everybody in the world even if you don't
00:42:02
◼
►
know his name
00:42:03
◼
►
everyone's seen that video clip of like
00:42:05
◼
►
here is the first time we had
00:42:08
◼
►
motion video in a way horse running he's
00:42:12
◼
►
the guy who did that because there was
00:42:14
◼
►
actually a debate whether you know all
00:42:15
◼
►
the horses hooves were off the ground at
00:42:17
◼
►
given time and stuff so he he wanted to
00:42:19
◼
►
break it down he then started filming
00:42:20
◼
►
everything he could use this camera
00:42:22
◼
►
system at so anyway he started taking
00:42:24
◼
►
all these pictures to show animal
00:42:26
◼
►
locomotion and then he also started
00:42:27
◼
►
showing human locomotion so he would
00:42:30
◼
►
show humans doing things like walking
00:42:31
◼
►
and running and using an axe and fencing
00:42:34
◼
►
and wrestling and all these different
00:42:36
◼
►
things so it could be studied in detail
00:42:38
◼
►
and not only was it like you know a lot
00:42:40
◼
►
of scientific breakthroughs were being
00:42:41
◼
►
made this was leading towards obviously
00:42:43
◼
►
movies and moving pictures because
00:42:45
◼
►
you've got this quick see he was like
00:42:46
◼
►
the first slow-mo guy I like to think it
00:42:48
◼
►
was it was in slow-mo they were playing
00:42:50
◼
►
it back in real time well no but like it
00:42:51
◼
►
was using like a high-speed camera to
00:42:53
◼
►
show things that were too fast for the
00:42:55
◼
►
eye to see okay he's kind of doing that
00:42:57
◼
►
same thing you know it was a high frame
00:43:00
◼
►
rate for the time okay
00:43:01
◼
►
all right because we had no frame yeah
00:43:07
◼
►
12 frames per second it's amazing so you
00:43:11
◼
►
know when he was taking pictures of
00:43:13
◼
►
humans doing stuff they were usually not
00:43:15
◼
►
wearing clothing because you wanted to
00:43:17
◼
►
be able to see you know muscles and the
00:43:19
◼
►
way the leg was moving and the arm was
00:43:21
◼
►
moving and if it was all covered in
00:43:22
◼
►
clothes you wouldn't be seeing it so I
00:43:24
◼
►
uploaded this video all about all these
00:43:26
◼
►
old pictures and what he did and we
00:43:27
◼
►
showed videos of a rah rah rah you can
00:43:30
◼
►
imagine and in the course of the video
00:43:32
◼
►
we showed lots of these pictures we
00:43:35
◼
►
animated some of them to make them into
00:43:36
◼
►
little movies mhm now the video has
00:43:40
◼
►
naked people in it you know we left a
00:43:42
◼
►
lot out that we thought was a little bit
00:43:44
◼
►
maybe a little bit confrontational we
00:43:46
◼
►
haven't got like you know things
00:43:47
◼
►
dangling in people's faces and it's not
00:43:49
◼
►
- you know I thought we were restrained
00:43:51
◼
►
yeah you left out the slo-mo pillow
00:43:54
◼
►
fight that he had filmed as well in the
00:43:56
◼
►
off hours yeah like that stuff wasn't in
00:43:58
◼
►
there was a lot of stuff that maybe
00:43:59
◼
►
could be construed as a bit risque but
00:44:01
◼
►
you know that we didn't use any of that
00:44:03
◼
►
it was just you know it was all pretty
00:44:04
◼
►
normal stuff but there were occasional
00:44:08
◼
►
glimpses of parts of the body here and
00:44:10
◼
►
there but it was I thought it was a wrap
00:44:13
◼
►
the YouTube's automatic system to its
00:44:16
◼
►
credit unless someone flagged it to its
00:44:18
◼
►
credit flags this is inappropriate
00:44:20
◼
►
I disagreed with that I appealed it
00:44:23
◼
►
asking for a manual review the manual
00:44:26
◼
►
review has been conducted and the manual
00:44:28
◼
►
review has come back saying no that's
00:44:30
◼
►
inappropriate so as it stands now the
00:44:33
◼
►
video is unavailable for monetization
00:44:36
◼
►
objectivity videos aren't massively
00:44:38
◼
►
watched so like this is not costing me
00:44:41
◼
►
an amount of money that concerns me but
00:44:45
◼
►
I am concerned about like the bigger
00:44:47
◼
►
issue not like you know I'm a campaigner
00:44:49
◼
►
I'm gonna change the world kind of way
00:44:50
◼
►
but I do think it speaks to a bigger
00:44:52
◼
►
issue about like art and showing things
00:44:55
◼
►
and what's right and what's wrong and
00:44:57
◼
►
what's suitable and not suitable you
00:44:58
◼
►
have watch the video have you or yeah no
00:45:00
◼
►
I watch the video alright tell me your
00:45:03
◼
►
thoughts well first of all I recommend
00:45:04
◼
►
everybody watch it cuz it was just
00:45:06
◼
►
interesting to see I didn't know the
00:45:07
◼
►
extra detail is about this work somehow
00:45:10
◼
►
assume that the horse thing was like
00:45:12
◼
►
one-off and seeing the animated early
00:45:15
◼
►
videos of human motion was really
00:45:16
◼
►
interesting I just genuinely liked it as
00:45:18
◼
►
an objectivity video thank you but I was
00:45:21
◼
►
watching this video and my perspective
00:45:23
◼
►
on it was you selected video like so
00:45:26
◼
►
when people hear you describe it right
00:45:28
◼
►
you listener like whatever is in your
00:45:31
◼
►
head when Brady just described the video
00:45:34
◼
►
I can guarantee you what's in your head
00:45:37
◼
►
is ten times more explicit than what is
00:45:41
◼
►
in the actual video imagine a man
00:45:45
◼
►
walking in a low-resolution image who's
00:45:49
◼
►
walking sideways across the camera with
00:45:52
◼
►
extraordinarily convenient leg placement
00:45:56
◼
►
95% of the time that's what's in the
00:45:59
◼
►
video the level of nudity for the parts
00:46:02
◼
►
that people care about is so trivial in
00:46:07
◼
►
this video now when you say it was
00:46:09
◼
►
flagged immediately that I'm not
00:46:11
◼
►
surprised because from talking to people
00:46:13
◼
►
who would know about these things
00:46:15
◼
►
my understanding is that if there is one
00:46:17
◼
►
thing that the army of artificial
00:46:19
◼
►
intelligence bots at YouTube are
00:46:21
◼
►
extraordinarily good at recognizing it's
00:46:25
◼
►
naked people know that this is a thing
00:46:27
◼
►
that the AIS have been trained on and
00:46:29
◼
►
they can spot very reliably very
00:46:34
◼
►
they have high-class Willie recognition
00:46:36
◼
►
exactly right and this is to YouTube's
00:46:39
◼
►
total credit like I have in my whole
00:46:41
◼
►
life I think never ever seen anything
00:46:43
◼
►
that remotely is pornography on the
00:46:46
◼
►
channel right like they are deadly
00:46:49
◼
►
serious and it's a relatively
00:46:51
◼
►
straightforward thing for the system to
00:46:54
◼
►
try to automatically flag as people
00:46:56
◼
►
without clothing so I'm not surprised it
00:46:58
◼
►
was caught instantly in the trap yeah
00:47:01
◼
►
but I really think this is a very
00:47:05
◼
►
interesting case that if this was
00:47:07
◼
►
manually reviewed by an actual human I'm
00:47:11
◼
►
gonna say I think this is kind of
00:47:14
◼
►
outrageous to be classified as a video
00:47:18
◼
►
that cannot be monetized I really think
00:47:22
◼
►
this is like if you had a video where
00:47:24
◼
►
you showed the Statue of David yeah
00:47:27
◼
►
there's something about this that really
00:47:28
◼
►
bothers me right where it's like artwork
00:47:30
◼
►
or anything of scientific value is so
00:47:34
◼
►
far on the one end of this extreme that
00:47:37
◼
►
is like if we can't agree that this is
00:47:40
◼
►
acceptable I feel like all hope is lost
00:47:43
◼
►
if this is not acceptable I feel like
00:47:46
◼
►
we've fallen into some kind of crazy
00:47:49
◼
►
land where you can never know who knows
00:47:52
◼
►
what's acceptable now I find it
00:47:53
◼
►
genuinely upsetting that this has been
00:47:56
◼
►
again if it was a human that this is the
00:47:58
◼
►
verdict that has come down on this okay
00:48:00
◼
►
just very quickly on that if it's not a
00:48:03
◼
►
human that's even worse because that
00:48:06
◼
►
they make it absolutely clear you have
00:48:07
◼
►
no right to appeal there's nothing that
00:48:09
◼
►
can be done about it the judge's
00:48:11
◼
►
decision is final so if I've been turned
00:48:13
◼
►
down by AI twice mm-hmm and no
00:48:15
◼
►
correspondence will be entered into then
00:48:17
◼
►
that is a little bit unfair but yeah we
00:48:19
◼
►
don't know we don't know if it's a human
00:48:21
◼
►
or not so we don't know I just say if
00:48:22
◼
►
it's a human because I have some very
00:48:24
◼
►
strong suspicions that at least some
00:48:27
◼
►
portion of those manual reviews are not
00:48:29
◼
►
actually going to a human that there's a
00:48:31
◼
►
bot that's doing the first pass and
00:48:33
◼
►
maybe it gets kicked up to a human maybe
00:48:35
◼
►
it doesn't I don't have anything to
00:48:36
◼
►
prove that but I just have a suspicion
00:48:38
◼
►
that maybe that's partly the case yeah
00:48:39
◼
►
anyway on the broader issue I'm the
00:48:42
◼
►
first to admit if you pardon the pun
00:48:44
◼
►
that I have skin in the game here so I
00:48:47
◼
►
from the start that okay I'm a bit
00:48:50
◼
►
biased but I also think it's a little
00:48:53
◼
►
unfair I will say I do recognize that
00:48:56
◼
►
Statue of David numerous famous
00:48:59
◼
►
paintings you could mention venus de
00:49:02
◼
►
milo all these things and not
00:49:04
◼
►
photographs they're artworks but i mean
00:49:08
◼
►
these things i was using a very old from
00:49:10
◼
►
the 1800s black-and-white grainy
00:49:13
◼
►
pictures that are really historically
00:49:16
◼
►
it was the pioneering images that led to
00:49:19
◼
►
cinema it was really scientifically
00:49:21
◼
►
significant work like this is like
00:49:23
◼
►
important stuff in art and science right
00:49:26
◼
►
it is in no way sexual or sexually
00:49:30
◼
►
suggestive and that's what the youtubes
00:49:31
◼
►
terms talk about they don't talk about
00:49:33
◼
►
nudity as much as things that are you
00:49:36
◼
►
know sexually suggestive these are in
00:49:37
◼
►
roadway sexual and in kind of my like
00:49:41
◼
►
amusement I went and had a look and
00:49:43
◼
►
Google's own YouTube channel for art and
00:49:47
◼
►
culture has numerous videos that show
00:49:50
◼
►
naked bits of art interesting they even
00:49:53
◼
►
have one where like it's popping up in
00:49:55
◼
►
front of a little kid and the little
00:49:56
◼
►
kids giggling although isn't that funny
00:49:58
◼
►
because you know the person's not
00:49:59
◼
►
wearing clothes and they have one way
00:50:01
◼
►
that they could person's on like an iPad
00:50:02
◼
►
screen and the kids like you know
00:50:04
◼
►
manipulating it to zoom in and look at
00:50:06
◼
►
it and things like that
00:50:06
◼
►
like on their own channel they're quite
00:50:08
◼
►
comfortable with nude art mm-hmm so I do
00:50:11
◼
►
know the difference between photos and
00:50:13
◼
►
art but if that's the defense which I
00:50:17
◼
►
don't know what the defense is because I
00:50:18
◼
►
haven't heard anything it doesn't wash
00:50:20
◼
►
with me and what do I have to do now
00:50:22
◼
►
should I have uploaded that video with
00:50:23
◼
►
big you know black boxes over the top
00:50:27
◼
►
supposed to do that kind of stuff drives
00:50:30
◼
►
me even more crazy that would make me
00:50:32
◼
►
that would make everyone look stupid and
00:50:34
◼
►
it makes everyone look stupid and it
00:50:36
◼
►
also falls again into my very strong
00:50:39
◼
►
feelings about this that like when you
00:50:43
◼
►
go crazy about the prohibition of a
00:50:46
◼
►
thing whatever that thing is is like
00:50:48
◼
►
guess what you're the one who's making
00:50:51
◼
►
it powerful or you're making it into a
00:50:55
◼
►
thing that it isn't and so that's why
00:50:58
◼
►
it's like if you start putting black
00:50:59
◼
►
bars over like as we're had
00:51:01
◼
►
this discussion I have on screen in
00:51:03
◼
►
front of me probably the most in quotes
00:51:06
◼
►
suggestive part which is a 135 where you
00:51:10
◼
►
have the three film strips of the man
00:51:11
◼
►
walking to the side the man walking
00:51:13
◼
►
front and the man walking back you have
00:51:15
◼
►
this blown up on a 27-inch screen that's
00:51:19
◼
►
two feet from my face at HD resolution
00:51:23
◼
►
right but of course I'm looking at a
00:51:25
◼
►
thing that's from the 1800s
00:51:26
◼
►
that's filmed at an angle there's not
00:51:29
◼
►
four pixels of detail in this image here
00:51:33
◼
►
to put a black bar over it is like a
00:51:35
◼
►
mockery it's like what are you hiding
00:51:38
◼
►
all that black bar is doing is like oh
00:51:40
◼
►
right this is the black bar of shame
00:51:43
◼
►
right because this is the thing that can
00:51:45
◼
►
never be seen putting black bars on it
00:51:47
◼
►
would sexualize err you don't get a
00:51:49
◼
►
picture of Michelangelo's David and you
00:51:50
◼
►
think that's a nice sculpture you put a
00:51:52
◼
►
big black bar over his private parts and
00:51:55
◼
►
suddenly it seems more sexual yeah it
00:51:57
◼
►
totally does there was a meme a few
00:51:59
◼
►
years ago which was fantastic where
00:52:01
◼
►
people were pixel izing parts of
00:52:04
◼
►
innocuous photos and it's amazing how
00:52:07
◼
►
sexually suggestive you can make a
00:52:10
◼
►
totally normal photo by very strategic
00:52:13
◼
►
pixelization of particular moments so
00:52:16
◼
►
the mean was you sure like the before
00:52:17
◼
►
and after like with the pixelization or
00:52:19
◼
►
without there's another meme which is
00:52:21
◼
►
about like seeing the nudity and it's it
00:52:24
◼
►
works surprisingly well were you take a
00:52:25
◼
►
photograph of a fully clothed person and
00:52:28
◼
►
you just put transparent circles on that
00:52:31
◼
►
photograph in strategic spots and it's
00:52:33
◼
►
so crazy but like your brain sort of
00:52:35
◼
►
fills in what the person looked like
00:52:37
◼
►
this kind of censorship I legitimately
00:52:40
◼
►
think makes it more of what it isn't it
00:52:45
◼
►
would be crazy for you to put black bars
00:52:48
◼
►
on this video it would 100% achieve the
00:52:52
◼
►
exact opposite purpose and make the very
00:52:56
◼
►
thing that isn't something into
00:52:59
◼
►
something so yeah it's so frustrating
00:53:01
◼
►
it's absolutely frustrating I'll just
00:53:03
◼
►
send you a tweet I did yesterday you
00:53:05
◼
►
know just as an another case in point I
00:53:07
◼
►
got a couple of famous cultural images
00:53:11
◼
►
so Brady's just sent me his tweet with
00:53:13
◼
►
Leonardo da Vinci
00:53:15
◼
►
famous man in the circle right with the
00:53:17
◼
►
black bar a strategically placed and the
00:53:20
◼
►
Venus de Milo with a bar across her
00:53:23
◼
►
oh yeah unambiguously the bar makes the
00:53:28
◼
►
images worse than they are without the
00:53:30
◼
►
bar it's the thin end of a wedge isn't
00:53:31
◼
►
it in terms of culture and history and
00:53:33
◼
►
that when we start having to push this
00:53:36
◼
►
stuff aside because we want to cater to
00:53:38
◼
►
advertisers who they think might be
00:53:41
◼
►
sensitive I'd be surprised if any
00:53:43
◼
►
advertisers were sensitive about this
00:53:44
◼
►
video by the way because what they're
00:53:45
◼
►
going to do in the long run I mean
00:53:46
◼
►
they're not going to change me but in
00:53:48
◼
►
the long run people are going to stop
00:53:49
◼
►
making the videos about certain subjects
00:53:52
◼
►
because they can't monetize them and
00:53:53
◼
►
then those subjects just fade out of
00:53:55
◼
►
existence you know is there a whole
00:53:56
◼
►
generation in period in art history that
00:53:59
◼
►
is going to be disproportionately less
00:54:00
◼
►
covered on YouTube because people can't
00:54:02
◼
►
show the paintings yeah I mean we've
00:54:04
◼
►
sort of skirted around this issue a
00:54:05
◼
►
couple of times on the show but this is
00:54:07
◼
►
why I think it's always dangerous to get
00:54:10
◼
►
into the content filtering game yeah I
00:54:14
◼
►
feel like all platforms should stay as
00:54:15
◼
►
far away from this as they possibly can
00:54:17
◼
►
because it is the thin end of the wedge
00:54:19
◼
►
there's no winning even if you think
00:54:23
◼
►
you're doing the right thing is like
00:54:25
◼
►
this is a perfect case like would any
00:54:27
◼
►
advertiser in the world actually care
00:54:28
◼
►
about this no but I know for a fact that
00:54:32
◼
►
this kind of D monetization does have a
00:54:36
◼
►
chilling effect on the kinds of content
00:54:38
◼
►
that people produce for the platform
00:54:42
◼
►
we've said it before but I think YouTube
00:54:43
◼
►
and platforms like it are big enough
00:54:46
◼
►
that I don't think you can play the oh
00:54:49
◼
►
it's just a company card anymore I think
00:54:53
◼
►
at a certain point it becomes so vital
00:54:57
◼
►
for speech that this kind of stuff
00:54:59
◼
►
really matters and this objectivity
00:55:01
◼
►
video is just like a perfect example
00:55:03
◼
►
because you have everything going for
00:55:07
◼
►
you like it's historically significant
00:55:10
◼
►
it's barely visible is the most
00:55:13
◼
►
innocuous video imaginable and if this
00:55:17
◼
►
can't get through the filter like what
00:55:20
◼
►
hope is there for anything that is
00:55:24
◼
►
remotely near and interesting
00:55:28
◼
►
edge there's no hope at all for that
00:55:30
◼
►
kind of content this episode's been
00:55:33
◼
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brought to you by Backblaze unlimited
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says drawings here I don't have many
00:55:47
◼
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drawings on my computer but I know some
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◼
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of you do it doesn't matter what you've
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◼
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got on your computer it's all safely
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backed up in the background so that if
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disasters strike and they always strike
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in the end you won't have that
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gut-wrenching moment when you realize
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everything is gone possibly because you
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didn't have a backup or maybe you just
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◼
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forgot some sort of backup that's never
00:56:08
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gonna happen with that place look we've
00:56:10
◼
►
told you plenty of times why you should
00:56:11
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►
have Backblaze their website also does a
00:56:14
◼
►
great job explaining it so I'm not gonna
00:56:16
◼
►
take too much time on that today suffice
00:56:18
◼
►
to say I can think of nothing else that
00:56:20
◼
►
I've done that gives me so much peace of
00:56:22
◼
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mind for so little effort or money on my
00:56:25
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behalf but I will quickly tell you about
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another additional Backblaze feature
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that saved my bacon just a few weeks ago
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you see I was in America for a couple of
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weeks just recently and before I went I
00:56:34
◼
►
put onto like a little hard drive all
00:56:36
◼
►
the files I think I'll need while I'm
00:56:38
◼
►
away it could be video files I have to
00:56:40
◼
►
edit with personal bits and pieces that
00:56:42
◼
►
I think might need administering while
00:56:44
◼
►
I'm away and I'd do it sort of is always
00:56:46
◼
►
a bit of a mad rush it's always a bit
00:56:48
◼
►
last-minute but I always think I've got
00:56:49
◼
►
what I'm gonna need on one portable
00:56:51
◼
►
drive but then I got to America and you
00:56:53
◼
►
can guess what happened there was I
00:56:54
◼
►
think there was just one file I needed
00:56:56
◼
►
in some obscure folder that I'd forgot
00:56:59
◼
►
to drag across I didn't have access to I
00:57:01
◼
►
really really needed it but it didn't
00:57:03
◼
►
matter because Backblaze lets you
00:57:05
◼
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remotely get into your backup from a
00:57:07
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phone or another computer if you've got
00:57:09
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all your passwords and everything you
00:57:10
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can get in and I was able to retrieve
00:57:13
◼
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that one file I needed out on the road
00:57:15
◼
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and I was able to get on with my work it
00:57:17
◼
►
was basically like I could just nip
00:57:19
◼
►
upstairs to my computer except I was on
00:57:21
◼
►
the other side of the world it was
00:57:23
◼
►
so not the big save from catastrophe
00:57:25
◼
►
that Backblaze is famous for but just a
00:57:27
◼
►
little bit of help on the road to put
00:57:29
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►
back players on your computer go to bat
00:57:31
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blaze comm slash hello internet there's
00:57:35
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a fully featured 15 day trial so you can
00:57:37
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just see how it works try before you buy
00:57:39
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I think once you try you
00:57:41
◼
►
that's what happened to me it's
00:57:43
◼
►
Backblaze dot-com / hello Internet by
00:57:46
◼
►
the way if you already have them
00:57:47
◼
►
yourself but you need them for business
00:57:49
◼
►
there's also a business backup feature -
00:57:51
◼
►
just click on the business backup link
00:57:53
◼
►
on their webpage Backblaze comm slash
00:57:57
◼
►
hello internet as always our thanks to
00:58:00
◼
►
them for making such a great thing and
00:58:02
◼
►
also for supporting this podcast so
00:58:05
◼
►
great you have been a school student and
00:58:08
◼
►
you also have been a school teacher tell
00:58:11
◼
►
me what comes into your head or your
00:58:12
◼
►
memories or how you feel or what you
00:58:14
◼
►
think when I say to you school photos or
00:58:16
◼
►
class photos what emotion does this
00:58:19
◼
►
bring out in you what do you mean like
00:58:20
◼
►
you know like in a yearbook
00:58:21
◼
►
well did you presumably when you're at
00:58:23
◼
►
school like once a year would you have a
00:58:24
◼
►
photo taken of the whole class that
00:58:25
◼
►
would go into like yeah a yearbook or
00:58:27
◼
►
and your parents could buy one and would
00:58:29
◼
►
they take a loved one one of you on your
00:58:31
◼
►
own as well each year school look here's
00:58:33
◼
►
CGP grey when he was in year 2 and here
00:58:35
◼
►
he is in year 3 here his class photos
00:58:37
◼
►
all through the years school photos I
00:58:40
◼
►
haven't thought about this in forever
00:58:44
◼
►
this is something that maybe in another
00:58:45
◼
►
five years would have totally passed out
00:58:47
◼
►
of my mind but yes I'm glad I saved it
00:58:51
◼
►
oh right these are some neural pathways
00:58:54
◼
►
left untouched for a very long period of
00:58:57
◼
►
time well they can be quite damaging
00:58:58
◼
►
memories too like maybe you have
00:59:00
◼
►
repressed memories thing the one kid in
00:59:03
◼
►
the class photo who like has his or her
00:59:05
◼
►
eyes shut that sticks with you for years
00:59:07
◼
►
I mean I'll take your word for it
00:59:11
◼
►
but none of my memories are surfacing
00:59:14
◼
►
that piece of information
00:59:15
◼
►
you obviously have good photo face I'm
00:59:18
◼
►
terrible at having my photo taken is
00:59:19
◼
►
that what we're going to have here is
00:59:20
◼
►
Brady therapy corner for your old school
00:59:23
◼
►
photos well maybe it is I don't know let
00:59:26
◼
►
me tell you what's got me thinking about
00:59:27
◼
►
this let me send you a photo okay
00:59:30
◼
►
unfortunately I can't share this with
00:59:32
◼
►
the collective because it's a it
00:59:33
◼
►
involves a whole bunch of people whose
00:59:34
◼
►
permission we don't have right but this
00:59:37
◼
►
is the class photo of my nephew so my
00:59:41
◼
►
sister sent it to me and said have a
00:59:42
◼
►
look at the cute class photo this is not
00:59:44
◼
►
how I remember class photos looking but
00:59:46
◼
►
you know we live in a new age now whoa
00:59:48
◼
►
what what what it no this is weird this
00:59:50
◼
►
is not a class photo what do you think
00:59:53
◼
►
of that okay let me just set the
00:59:55
◼
►
vacation so in my head need class photo
01:00:00
◼
►
is you shuffle everybody down to the gym
01:00:02
◼
►
yeah and you're sitting on the bleachers
01:00:04
◼
►
so there's some height difference
01:00:06
◼
►
between everybody yeah maybe there's
01:00:08
◼
►
like a little plaque in the front where
01:00:10
◼
►
someone has put the words on that says
01:00:12
◼
►
what this is a photo of yeah and that's
01:00:14
◼
►
where you take the picture Jones Smith
01:00:16
◼
►
high schoo year three yeah
01:00:20
◼
►
1987 yeah you want to be real fancy you
01:00:23
◼
►
go outside into the bleachers so there's
01:00:24
◼
►
trees in the background that's wow you
01:00:26
◼
►
had some nice ones right I went to a
01:00:28
◼
►
very posh school would us be like the
01:00:30
◼
►
whole year level it would be broken into
01:00:32
◼
►
classes in homeroom so it's like groups
01:00:33
◼
►
of 30 or were you like a group of like a
01:00:35
◼
►
hundred or something like my rusty
01:00:37
◼
►
memories are that it like in primary
01:00:39
◼
►
school it was just the class yeah and
01:00:42
◼
►
that in high school they shuffled
01:00:44
◼
►
everybody out onto the bleachers yeah
01:00:46
◼
►
the whole bunch think but I could be
01:00:48
◼
►
wrong about that so explain this one
01:00:50
◼
►
that I sent to you I think most people
01:00:52
◼
►
have that image in their head hopefully
01:00:53
◼
►
that we've always done insane this is my
01:00:55
◼
►
nephew this is the new generation of
01:00:57
◼
►
class photos how would you describe this
01:00:58
◼
►
one okay well just like with movies I
01:01:01
◼
►
know you want my opinion at first I'm
01:01:02
◼
►
gonna give this class photo a thumbs
01:01:03
◼
►
down it's really weird
01:01:05
◼
►
and what makes it weird is okay so
01:01:08
◼
►
instead of the kids sitting in the
01:01:10
◼
►
bleachers they are all standing in a
01:01:13
◼
►
line next to each other so that it's
01:01:16
◼
►
just all of the kids in a big row facing
01:01:19
◼
►
the camera facing the camera facing wide
01:01:21
◼
►
like a panorama shot isn't it yeah it's
01:01:24
◼
►
I give you were there with your iPhone
01:01:25
◼
►
you would need to put it into panorama
01:01:27
◼
►
mode to take this picture
01:01:28
◼
►
yeah the background is an empty void of
01:01:32
◼
►
nothing it's just a pure white
01:01:35
◼
►
background which makes me wonder like
01:01:38
◼
►
was that they roll out the like the
01:01:40
◼
►
green screen for this this photograph it
01:01:43
◼
►
kind of looks like it is a clothing
01:01:45
◼
►
catalog for the uniform that these kids
01:01:49
◼
►
are wearing yeah like if I didn't know
01:01:51
◼
►
any better I would almost assume this
01:01:53
◼
►
was an advertisement in a magazine
01:01:55
◼
►
that's like hey look at these uniforms
01:01:58
◼
►
for these kids the kids are they're not
01:02:00
◼
►
just standing in a line all looking at
01:02:03
◼
►
the camera they look very posed and it
01:02:05
◼
►
looked very posed like it's and magazine
01:02:07
◼
►
was like oh here's a kid and the kids on
01:02:09
◼
►
either side have who were taller had
01:02:11
◼
►
their hands on his shoulder right Simon
01:02:13
◼
►
got their arms crossed and some have got
01:02:14
◼
►
like sassy poses with a hand on their on
01:02:16
◼
►
their hips yes I'm looking at a couple
01:02:18
◼
►
of the girls have like the very standard
01:02:21
◼
►
photo pose of hands on hips like one
01:02:24
◼
►
knee a little bit forward
01:02:26
◼
►
it looks really strange I have this
01:02:28
◼
►
feeling like a like again a kind of meme
01:02:30
◼
►
that you see sometimes on the Internet
01:02:31
◼
►
is where if you look in a catalog
01:02:33
◼
►
someone will sometimes post these images
01:02:35
◼
►
where you can see that the person doing
01:02:37
◼
►
the Photoshop job has messed up and
01:02:39
◼
►
there's an extra hand where a hand
01:02:40
◼
►
shouldn't be because someone was
01:02:42
◼
►
photoshopped out of the scene right or
01:02:44
◼
►
there's like something's really weird
01:02:45
◼
►
that you don't notice at first and this
01:02:47
◼
►
photo feels like I wouldn't be surprised
01:02:50
◼
►
to learn this is actually a composite
01:02:52
◼
►
photo of a bunch of shots gray it
01:02:55
◼
►
totally is they were photographed as
01:02:57
◼
►
like in twos or threes right okay
01:02:59
◼
►
separately and then they were all put
01:03:01
◼
►
together afterwards into this big long
01:03:02
◼
►
line yeah there's one that has like it's
01:03:05
◼
►
like a seam yeah it looks strange it's
01:03:06
◼
►
the one mistake they made the rest of it
01:03:08
◼
►
was actually done pretty well but I'm a
01:03:10
◼
►
little bit mortified by this I have some
01:03:12
◼
►
feelings about it but tell me why are
01:03:14
◼
►
you mortified I know I'm like old
01:03:16
◼
►
fashioned right and we live in this
01:03:18
◼
►
digital age but there are a few things
01:03:20
◼
►
about doing class photos so digitally
01:03:22
◼
►
and I've seen this a lot lately class
01:03:23
◼
►
photos now are amazing they're like
01:03:25
◼
►
they're so different to what they used
01:03:26
◼
►
to be they're like portraits one of my
01:03:28
◼
►
other nephews I saw his class photos the
01:03:30
◼
►
other day and it was like a photo shoot
01:03:31
◼
►
from another world with all that lovely
01:03:33
◼
►
bakker and you know everything's all
01:03:35
◼
►
amazing and there's like these candid
01:03:36
◼
►
poses rhinorrhea one thing which was in
01:03:40
◼
►
my old high school yearbook like the
01:03:43
◼
►
photographer came to the school and did
01:03:44
◼
►
the did the photo shoots and said
01:03:46
◼
►
everybody looks the same yeah but one of
01:03:48
◼
►
the girls her father worked in the
01:03:50
◼
►
fashion industry and like she had a
01:03:52
◼
►
photo that stood out right as as
01:03:53
◼
►
noticeably different because it was just
01:03:56
◼
►
crazy professional I do is never being
01:03:58
◼
►
like I was that kid I don't think I
01:04:01
◼
►
would want this so when you say that
01:04:02
◼
►
they look different I can easily imagine
01:04:03
◼
►
what you're talking about I don't know
01:04:05
◼
►
if there was just of rites of passage
01:04:07
◼
►
thing about class photos that I don't
01:04:10
◼
►
know it felt like it gave me life
01:04:11
◼
►
lessons and it was character building
01:04:13
◼
►
and I feel like that's all been taken
01:04:15
◼
►
away for example in the old days of
01:04:17
◼
►
photos when they didn't have you know
01:04:19
◼
►
digital cameras and we all lined up and
01:04:20
◼
►
had our individual photos taken it was
01:04:23
◼
►
like your one charts that would go bang
01:04:24
◼
►
and then you wouldn't say anything think
01:04:26
◼
►
weeks and six weeks later you'd be given
01:04:29
◼
►
like these envelopes to take home for
01:04:30
◼
►
your parents where they would say do you
01:04:32
◼
►
want to buy some of these I'm the kid
01:04:34
◼
►
and like if your eyes were shut or you'd
01:04:36
◼
►
go to prom or something like you'd blown
01:04:38
◼
►
your chance I had one chance and like
01:04:41
◼
►
you didn't know if you'd done it or not
01:04:42
◼
►
and that teaches you a lot about life
01:04:44
◼
►
like surreptitiously because laughs like
01:04:46
◼
►
that sometimes you know you had your one
01:04:48
◼
►
chance and don't blow it kid
01:04:50
◼
►
that's the lesson you should learn in
01:04:51
◼
►
life it's kind of like but now it's like
01:04:53
◼
►
let's take a thousand until we get it
01:04:54
◼
►
perfect and and it's the same with the
01:04:56
◼
►
class photo you know be having someone
01:04:59
◼
►
who has their eyes share in the photo I
01:05:01
◼
►
mean that doesn't happen now because
01:05:02
◼
►
they do them all separately that's why
01:05:03
◼
►
they're doing this so that no kid is
01:05:05
◼
►
gonna have a stinker because if you put
01:05:07
◼
►
twenty kids in a line you have to take a
01:05:09
◼
►
thousand photos until you get the one
01:05:11
◼
►
you need but here you're taking away
01:05:12
◼
►
that problem by just doing them in pairs
01:05:14
◼
►
making sure everyone's eyes are open and
01:05:16
◼
►
things like that and like so it's just
01:05:19
◼
►
taking away that kind of randomness and
01:05:21
◼
►
it's also taking away like the
01:05:22
◼
►
camaraderie of a class photo it was the
01:05:25
◼
►
one time you're all together and you be
01:05:26
◼
►
all lined up by height and you'd learn
01:05:28
◼
►
how tall you all were in relation to
01:05:29
◼
►
each other and you'd secretly be hoping
01:05:31
◼
►
that you'd end up in the photo somewhere
01:05:33
◼
►
close to like the girl you had a crush
01:05:34
◼
►
on or something and there's so much
01:05:36
◼
►
going on in the class photo and it was
01:05:38
◼
►
just all character building stuff and
01:05:40
◼
►
then you try to get bunny ears on the
01:05:42
◼
►
kid who's in front of you yeah and then
01:05:43
◼
►
you get to take a funny one at the end
01:05:45
◼
►
if you're like in the older kids like
01:05:46
◼
►
it's your final year school you'd say
01:05:48
◼
►
can we do a funny one where you all do a
01:05:49
◼
►
crazy pose and they'll take one of those
01:05:51
◼
►
and also like I don't know if it was
01:05:53
◼
►
just made me or not I've told people
01:05:55
◼
►
about this and they say it is just me
01:05:56
◼
►
but I never knew what day the school
01:05:58
◼
►
photos were gonna be and you just turn
01:06:00
◼
►
up one day and like the photograph
01:06:01
◼
►
company is there having taken over the
01:06:03
◼
►
gymnasium or something and it's like I'm
01:06:04
◼
►
a goodness at school photo day you know
01:06:06
◼
►
what a surprise and it's a big part of
01:06:09
◼
►
most memories of school and these photos
01:06:11
◼
►
become a big part of your life and you
01:06:14
◼
►
know you look back at your old school
01:06:15
◼
►
photos occasionally so I don't know this
01:06:18
◼
►
is a case where I think the digital path
01:06:19
◼
►
is getting rid of some problems but it's
01:06:23
◼
►
also taking away a lot of charm and a
01:06:25
◼
►
lot of character building and a lot of I
01:06:27
◼
►
don't know maybe I'm just overly
01:06:30
◼
►
sentimental I mean look I'm very happy
01:06:32
◼
►
to be the first one in the pylon of
01:06:34
◼
►
Brady is too sentimental I got my front
01:06:36
◼
►
row ticket to that party but like I am
01:06:39
◼
►
totally with you on this school
01:06:40
◼
►
photo thing great auks oh sorry one
01:06:42
◼
►
other point I didn't make it also like
01:06:45
◼
►
is instilling in a really interesting
01:06:47
◼
►
lesson about fakery because this photo
01:06:50
◼
►
is designed to look like they're all
01:06:51
◼
►
together at once these kids know they
01:06:53
◼
►
weren't riously because that incident
01:06:55
◼
►
never happened that's a moment in
01:06:56
◼
►
history that never happened that they've
01:06:58
◼
►
all now got as a keepsake for all time
01:06:59
◼
►
and it's just instilling at an early age
01:07:01
◼
►
that nothing is real yeah I mean maybe
01:07:05
◼
►
to be devil's advocate for a moment
01:07:07
◼
►
that's the most important lesson that
01:07:08
◼
►
you can teach children these days kids
01:07:12
◼
►
you live in a world where you can trust
01:07:14
◼
►
nothing that you see yeah okay they did
01:07:16
◼
►
the reverse is also true
01:07:17
◼
►
it also instills early on that nothing
01:07:19
◼
►
has to be real we'll fix it all in the
01:07:21
◼
►
Edit everything can be fixed in the Edit
01:07:24
◼
►
we'll fix it all in the edit but I don't
01:07:25
◼
►
like it because I said if you were going
01:07:27
◼
►
to take a picture of this with your
01:07:27
◼
►
iPhone you need to take it like a
01:07:29
◼
►
panorama but the thing that's that's
01:07:32
◼
►
weird isn't like in a panorama everybody
01:07:34
◼
►
would be at a different angle all right
01:07:37
◼
►
like you would be rotating the camera
01:07:39
◼
►
and so not all of the kids would be the
01:07:42
◼
►
exact same distance from the camera and
01:07:44
◼
►
in this photo it's like oh right of
01:07:47
◼
►
course all of these kids are looking
01:07:50
◼
►
straight ahead into a camera but there's
01:07:53
◼
►
a line of 20 of them side by side so
01:07:56
◼
►
there is no place you could put the
01:07:58
◼
►
camera to actually get this photo the
01:08:01
◼
►
way it looks with all of them standing
01:08:04
◼
►
in a straight line except a mile away
01:08:06
◼
►
with a telephoto zoom at an infinite
01:08:08
◼
►
distance you could capture this
01:08:11
◼
►
photograph right and since it seems like
01:08:13
◼
►
they're standing in a Euclidean fantasy
01:08:16
◼
►
land right where there's just infinite
01:08:19
◼
►
nothing in all direction maybe that's
01:08:21
◼
►
where this photograph was actually taken
01:08:23
◼
►
but this is a case where psych I'm all
01:08:25
◼
►
fine with digital stuff but if you're
01:08:27
◼
►
doing the digital stuff it has to look
01:08:30
◼
►
right this just looks terrible my big
01:08:32
◼
►
vote for why were school photograph days
01:08:36
◼
►
great is not for lessons learned or any
01:08:41
◼
►
of that sentimentality stuff my
01:08:43
◼
►
perspective on it was just oh thank god
01:08:46
◼
►
it's a day that's different
01:08:48
◼
►
it's a different day at the school we're
01:08:51
◼
►
not going through the same routine you
01:08:53
◼
►
would hope that it would land
01:08:54
◼
►
someday with the extra boring classes
01:08:56
◼
►
that you don't like and I feel like poor
01:08:58
◼
►
kids the school routine it's you know
01:09:00
◼
►
it's the same thing day in day out and
01:09:03
◼
►
any chance you can get to like go
01:09:05
◼
►
outside and sit in the bleachers that's
01:09:08
◼
►
way better whereas I can already see
01:09:09
◼
►
that from a school perspective they sure
01:09:11
◼
►
would love this because it can also be
01:09:14
◼
►
much less disruptive right you can just
01:09:15
◼
►
catch some kids whenever they're
01:09:17
◼
►
available you don't necessarily have to
01:09:19
◼
►
mess up the whole schedule take them out
01:09:20
◼
►
two or three at a time yeah this modern
01:09:22
◼
►
world Brady you know can I tell you one
01:09:25
◼
►
of my journalistic war stories that just
01:09:27
◼
►
came into my head please please do so
01:09:29
◼
►
back in the newspaper days when
01:09:31
◼
►
photoshopping was like a high-tech like
01:09:34
◼
►
normal people couldn't do it this was
01:09:35
◼
►
many many moons ago like analogue
01:09:37
◼
►
photoshopping is that the kind of stuff
01:09:39
◼
►
word document I don't know what we're
01:09:40
◼
►
exactly the technology was at but sort
01:09:42
◼
►
of certainly this story will give you an
01:09:44
◼
►
idea where the technology was at because
01:09:45
◼
►
my beat was covering like the City
01:09:48
◼
►
Council and I'd done it for a while and
01:09:50
◼
►
I had really good context and I was a
01:09:51
◼
►
really good mischief maker my favorite
01:09:53
◼
►
stories weren't like you know the
01:09:55
◼
►
important stuff that was being done in
01:09:56
◼
►
the council it was like making mischief
01:09:58
◼
►
as my specialty mm-hm and I knew the
01:10:01
◼
►
council was having like their official
01:10:03
◼
►
portrait taken this was the 20 members
01:10:05
◼
►
of the City Council whoever they the
01:10:07
◼
►
elected members I can't remember how
01:10:09
◼
►
many there were and they were having
01:10:10
◼
►
their equivalent of a class photo done
01:10:12
◼
►
and they were wearing all the official
01:10:14
◼
►
regalia all the formal robes of the City
01:10:16
◼
►
Council and the traditional stuff and it
01:10:18
◼
►
was being done in the council chamber
01:10:19
◼
►
which is a lovely ornate room where they
01:10:22
◼
►
would have their meetings but the doors
01:10:23
◼
►
were locked and I wasn't allowed in
01:10:25
◼
►
which made me suspicious but anyway I
01:10:28
◼
►
wandered by and I looked through the
01:10:29
◼
►
keyhole at one point and I saw them all
01:10:32
◼
►
in their robes and getting ready and
01:10:34
◼
►
standing in lions to have their photo
01:10:35
◼
►
taken they were doing it the
01:10:36
◼
►
old-fashioned way with you know short
01:10:38
◼
►
people at the front tall people in the
01:10:39
◼
►
second row mm-hm and one of like the
01:10:42
◼
►
council officials like one of like the
01:10:43
◼
►
PR people who was not a councillor he
01:10:46
◼
►
was just like a lackey a staff member
01:10:47
◼
►
was wearing all the regalia and the
01:10:49
◼
►
robes and I was so confused but an
01:10:52
◼
►
unlearning oven and then the next day I
01:10:55
◼
►
was talking to one of the other
01:10:55
◼
►
counselors and I said I was looking
01:10:57
◼
►
through the keyhole and I saw what's his
01:10:59
◼
►
chops wearing the robes what the heck
01:11:00
◼
►
was that all about and she said oh look
01:11:02
◼
►
I'm not supposed to tell you but I will
01:11:05
◼
►
because there were such gossips
01:11:07
◼
►
so and so the counselor couldn't be
01:11:10
◼
►
there because he was sick so they got
01:11:12
◼
►
this person to stand in the photo and
01:11:14
◼
►
then they used modern technology to put
01:11:17
◼
►
that person's head on the photo mm-hmm
01:11:20
◼
►
and I was like no way
01:11:21
◼
►
so like a couple of days later when the
01:11:23
◼
►
official photo got released to the press
01:11:25
◼
►
you know here's the council photo which
01:11:27
◼
►
is something we'd normally would have
01:11:28
◼
►
just ignored cuz who cares
01:11:29
◼
►
mm-hmm either cold the council and ask
01:11:31
◼
►
for an official statement about whether
01:11:33
◼
►
councillor Jones or whatever who's in
01:11:35
◼
►
the photo it was that really him so they
01:11:37
◼
►
had to like fess up that it wasn't and
01:11:39
◼
►
that was such an unusual thing to happen
01:11:41
◼
►
and it was considered like so scandalous
01:11:43
◼
►
that it became it was like page 3 or
01:11:45
◼
►
page 5 or the paper or something one of
01:11:46
◼
►
these counselors is not really there
01:11:48
◼
►
it's a you know it's a pretend photo it
01:11:50
◼
►
wasn't like a scandal like the count you
01:11:51
◼
►
know people should be sacked but it was
01:11:53
◼
►
like funny and embarrassing for them and
01:11:56
◼
►
it was a big thing yeah but now you
01:11:57
◼
►
think nothing of it you know school
01:11:59
◼
►
photos are Photoshop but back then
01:12:01
◼
►
having like someone's head put onto
01:12:03
◼
►
another body for the official portrait
01:12:05
◼
►
you know what I still think that's wrong
01:12:06
◼
►
to this day look at you Brady rustling
01:12:09
◼
►
up trouble where there's no trouble at
01:12:10
◼
►
all trying to kick up a scandal for some
01:12:13
◼
►
poor guy probably staying at home
01:12:14
◼
►
because he's sick no I took this day I
01:12:16
◼
►
think it's wrong when you go through the
01:12:18
◼
►
holes of City Council and you look at
01:12:20
◼
►
all those portraits over the year the
01:12:22
◼
►
photos of all the previous councils
01:12:24
◼
►
knowing that photos not a real photo and
01:12:25
◼
►
they all weren't there in one place it's
01:12:29
◼
►
wrong it's wrong it's not a document of
01:12:31
◼
►
a moment they were all together that's
01:12:32
◼
►
what bothers me photographs are
01:12:35
◼
►
sometimes documents of amazing times in
01:12:37
◼
►
history when you know you look at those
01:12:39
◼
►
photos where like you see all these
01:12:41
◼
►
famous scientists in one photo like
01:12:42
◼
►
Einstein and Niels Bohr and yeah and I
01:12:45
◼
►
know the exactly what you're thinking of
01:12:46
◼
►
yeah it leaps right to my head yeah
01:12:48
◼
►
imagine if you found out actually two of
01:12:51
◼
►
those people weren't there and they just
01:12:52
◼
►
put their heads on later the thing
01:12:53
◼
►
that's special about that photo is they
01:12:55
◼
►
were all in one place at one time yeah
01:12:57
◼
►
and it's the same with a school photo
01:12:59
◼
►
this thing about a school photo is they
01:13:01
◼
►
were all there if you were sick on
01:13:03
◼
►
school photo day back in my day you
01:13:04
◼
►
weren't in the school photo absent you
01:13:06
◼
►
know tuflow jones you've been erased
01:13:08
◼
►
from history and again that's a life
01:13:11
◼
►
lesson if you're not there you're not
01:13:13
◼
►
there but these days there's no lesson
01:13:15
◼
►
like that these days if you're not there
01:13:17
◼
►
we'll just put you there later
01:13:18
◼
►
that's not how life works but maybe it
01:13:21
◼
►
is Brady its how it works now gray it's
01:13:25
◼
►
plane crash corner time it'll be a quick
01:13:30
◼
►
one there's just been so much happening
01:13:32
◼
►
this car is bursting at the seams I feel
01:13:34
◼
►
like you're already contradicting
01:13:36
◼
►
yourself you're pretty you're like oh
01:13:37
◼
►
we're good we're gonna do a quick plane
01:13:38
◼
►
crash corner and then you're coming up
01:13:40
◼
►
to me with all of these model airplanes
01:13:42
◼
►
in your hand I've got so many I want to
01:13:44
◼
►
talk about it's a promise it's gonna be
01:13:46
◼
►
really quick hey you're the one slowing
01:13:48
◼
►
it down you're complaining about how
01:13:50
◼
►
long plane crash corner is just making
01:13:52
◼
►
it longer it's all my fault it's all my
01:13:54
◼
►
fault do you have any superstitions when
01:13:56
◼
►
you get on a plane okay so a while back
01:13:59
◼
►
I found myself unintentionally
01:14:04
◼
►
developing a superstition for getting on
01:14:07
◼
►
the plane yep I don't know how it
01:14:09
◼
►
started I don't know what it was but it
01:14:11
◼
►
was a behavior that I became aware of
01:14:13
◼
►
which is I have this tungsten wedding
01:14:15
◼
►
ring on my hand and yeah when I was a
01:14:18
◼
►
teacher I used to like tap it on things
01:14:21
◼
►
sometimes for like a point of emphasis
01:14:23
◼
►
in a classroom and I tend to just like
01:14:26
◼
►
tap it on stuff because it makes a
01:14:27
◼
►
pleasing sound and at some point I got
01:14:30
◼
►
into the habit of just as you're
01:14:32
◼
►
stepping on the plane as you're leaving
01:14:35
◼
►
the gangway of tapping the ring on the
01:14:38
◼
►
outside of the plane on the physical
01:14:41
◼
►
surface of it yeah and it became a
01:14:43
◼
►
superstition and I was doing it a bunch
01:14:45
◼
►
but not really realizing it and at some
01:14:49
◼
►
point I became aware of this as a
01:14:50
◼
►
conscious behavior and I have since
01:14:53
◼
►
banished this this is what superstitions
01:14:55
◼
►
are right there's some part of your
01:14:56
◼
►
brain that's not really thinking things
01:14:58
◼
►
through I did have a brief period of
01:15:00
◼
►
time where it's like as I'm walking into
01:15:02
◼
►
the plane and like you're not gonna tap
01:15:03
◼
►
you ring on the surface of the plane
01:15:06
◼
►
it's fine nothing's going to happen you
01:15:09
◼
►
know nothing's gonna happen don't let
01:15:10
◼
►
yourself fall into the category of
01:15:13
◼
►
building up this habit over time so I
01:15:16
◼
►
sort of did but I I have since gotten
01:15:19
◼
►
rid of it well grey I have a
01:15:21
◼
►
superstition when I get on planes okay
01:15:22
◼
►
and it's the exact same thing I've never
01:15:25
◼
►
gotten on or off a plane without
01:15:27
◼
►
touching the outside fuselage of the
01:15:29
◼
►
really I do it every time just
01:15:32
◼
►
my hand I just have to touch it I just
01:15:33
◼
►
have to have touched the outside of the
01:15:35
◼
►
plane for the first time ever when I got
01:15:37
◼
►
on a plane about a week ago one of the
01:15:40
◼
►
air stewards noticed that I did it as I
01:15:43
◼
►
was getting on I'd touch the outside of
01:15:45
◼
►
the plane friendly enough she said oh
01:15:46
◼
►
you can touch me instead if you like
01:15:47
◼
►
which now I think about it sounds kind
01:15:49
◼
►
of weird but it wasn't for that's not
01:15:51
◼
►
advertiser friendly at all she didn't
01:15:53
◼
►
mean it like that but when I as I said
01:15:55
◼
►
laughs I realized I sound a weird but
01:15:57
◼
►
she was just being my friendly but if we
01:15:59
◼
►
bleep out what she said it'll sound way
01:16:01
◼
►
better right that is that how that works
01:16:03
◼
►
right we'll take that we'll put a bleep
01:16:05
◼
►
over it then it'll be just fine
01:16:06
◼
►
oh yeah touch beep instead I feel like
01:16:11
◼
►
maybe this is a more common one it's it
01:16:13
◼
►
seems unlikely that you and I have both
01:16:17
◼
►
engaged in the exact same behavior that
01:16:19
◼
►
the fact that that is the thing that we
01:16:20
◼
►
think that going in and out of a plane a
01:16:22
◼
►
lot of people are touching the edge like
01:16:24
◼
►
I particularly don't want to do plane
01:16:25
◼
►
crash corner right now because I'm
01:16:26
◼
►
getting on a plane tomorrow right it's
01:16:28
◼
►
like goddammit but when I am getting on
01:16:32
◼
►
the plane tomorrow I'm gonna be paying
01:16:34
◼
►
attention and see if anyone on the line
01:16:37
◼
►
in front of me touches the plane on the
01:16:38
◼
►
way well I've learned my lesson and I'm
01:16:40
◼
►
not gonna say tweet me if you touch the
01:16:41
◼
►
outside of planes for anyway a lot of
01:16:44
◼
►
cultures have superstitions that involve
01:16:46
◼
►
coins but in particular the Chinese do
01:16:48
◼
►
apparently and there's a story I read a
01:16:51
◼
►
few months ago but the exact same thing
01:16:54
◼
►
happened a few days ago so it's happened
01:16:55
◼
►
twice now where Chinese passengers as
01:16:59
◼
►
they've been walking along the tarmac to
01:17:00
◼
►
get on the planes for luck have thrown
01:17:03
◼
►
coins into the engine of the plane Jesus
01:17:06
◼
►
Christ and then this has been spotted
01:17:08
◼
►
and obviously then they've had to pull
01:17:10
◼
►
the engine apart get the coins out
01:17:14
◼
►
there's a link in the notes video look
01:17:16
◼
►
at I've got it open right in front of me
01:17:18
◼
►
a superstitious passenger delayed a
01:17:20
◼
►
flight from Shanghai for several hours
01:17:22
◼
►
on Tuesday after throwing coins at the
01:17:24
◼
►
plane's engine for good luck they're
01:17:26
◼
►
usually elderly women that do it
01:17:28
◼
►
like imagine if it didn't get spotted
01:17:32
◼
►
there's so many different aspects of
01:17:33
◼
►
this when you say imagine if it didn't
01:17:36
◼
►
I would hope to god that a jet engine
01:17:38
◼
►
could chew up a penny and spit it out
01:17:41
◼
►
but now there's the niggling thought
01:17:44
◼
►
that it couldn't that there is a nonzero
01:17:46
◼
►
possibility that if it hits in just the
01:17:50
◼
►
right way especially as the engine is
01:17:52
◼
►
starting up and not at full chewing
01:17:54
◼
►
through stuff capacity that there's some
01:17:56
◼
►
damage that could be done so great great
01:17:59
◼
►
let me put let me put this to you great
01:18:01
◼
►
if you are getting on a plane and you
01:18:03
◼
►
thought in the corner of your eye but
01:18:04
◼
►
you weren't totally sure you saw an old
01:18:06
◼
►
Chinese lady throwing coins in the
01:18:08
◼
►
direction of the engine you don't know
01:18:10
◼
►
is that what she was doing did she
01:18:12
◼
►
actually get it near the engine what
01:18:14
◼
►
happen I don't know what would you then
01:18:16
◼
►
tell some people as you got on the plane
01:18:17
◼
►
I think maybe that person threw coins at
01:18:19
◼
►
the end really or would you just keep
01:18:20
◼
►
still before you can even get to the end
01:18:21
◼
►
of this question before you can even
01:18:23
◼
►
pose the question I've already added to
01:18:26
◼
►
my mental pre-flight checklist keep an
01:18:28
◼
►
eye on the old Chinese ladies it's
01:18:30
◼
►
already now going to be part of my plane
01:18:32
◼
►
boarding routine to be looking around as
01:18:35
◼
►
like hmm okay
01:18:37
◼
►
terrorists Marist like who knows anyone
01:18:39
◼
►
could be a terrorist you can't pick them
01:18:41
◼
►
out like an old Chinese lady who has
01:18:43
◼
►
something in her hand I can have my eye
01:18:44
◼
►
on you lady right isn't that racial
01:18:46
◼
►
profiling yeah yeah this tough luck
01:18:48
◼
►
right but if if apparently this is like
01:18:50
◼
►
a thing where old Chinese ladies throw
01:18:52
◼
►
coins into engines for luck it's racial
01:18:56
◼
►
profiling and life-saving
01:18:57
◼
►
it does seem to have become a trend so
01:18:59
◼
►
keep your eyes out babe oh man I didn't
01:19:03
◼
►
know you were flying tomorrow great I'm
01:19:05
◼
►
sorry to be throwing a few of these
01:19:07
◼
►
things babies another what I wanted to
01:19:08
◼
►
ask you about if you look on the next
01:19:10
◼
►
link there was a recent case as an Air
01:19:12
◼
►
France plane flying across the Atlantic
01:19:14
◼
►
a380 the big news superjumbo something
01:19:17
◼
►
went wrong with the engine it kind of
01:19:20
◼
►
blew itself apart a bit mid-flight it
01:19:23
◼
►
then landed and everything was okay
01:19:25
◼
►
the thing is they've been a bunch of
01:19:27
◼
►
pictures they're a bunch of pictures on
01:19:28
◼
►
Twitter and in the press that people
01:19:30
◼
►
took out the window of the blown-up
01:19:32
◼
►
engine like you know that badly damaged
01:19:34
◼
►
engine while the plane was still flying
01:19:37
◼
►
my question is if you are on a plane and
01:19:40
◼
►
something happened to the engine but the
01:19:41
◼
►
plane was still flying and the captain
01:19:43
◼
►
just camera said I'll we've lost one of
01:19:45
◼
►
the engines but it's gonna go on land
01:19:46
◼
►
now for safety
01:19:47
◼
►
would you take photos of it would you
01:19:49
◼
►
get your phone out and think oh well and
01:19:51
◼
►
take a bunch of photos of the damaged
01:19:53
◼
►
engine on the plane that you're
01:19:54
◼
►
currently flying in okay now this is a
01:19:57
◼
►
very particular situation because I
01:20:00
◼
►
generally don't like window seats I
01:20:02
◼
►
especially don't like window seats where
01:20:05
◼
►
I have a view of anything mechanical out
01:20:07
◼
►
the window hmm
01:20:08
◼
►
because I will find myself just looking
01:20:11
◼
►
like looking at the wing and looking at
01:20:14
◼
►
those little flaps that come up looking
01:20:16
◼
►
at the mechanical pieces that are
01:20:18
◼
►
underneath and if it's a stormy night
01:20:21
◼
►
you're looking at the gremlin who flies
01:20:23
◼
►
on and off the wing repeatedly as the
01:20:25
◼
►
plane goes on so I specifically try to
01:20:28
◼
►
avoid seats that are the windows or that
01:20:31
◼
►
have a view of the wing I do not like it
01:20:33
◼
►
but if for some reason I was in one of
01:20:36
◼
►
those seats yeah and something happened
01:20:40
◼
►
because I host a podcast with a co-host
01:20:44
◼
►
who is obsessed with plane crash corner
01:20:48
◼
►
I don't see how I could not take a photo
01:20:50
◼
►
I feel like if I was in that situation
01:20:53
◼
►
you would berate me for the rest of the
01:20:56
◼
►
time that we knew each other for not
01:20:58
◼
►
taking a photograph of that engine so so
01:21:01
◼
►
the answer is yes I would feel compelled
01:21:03
◼
►
because of the situation that I am in
01:21:05
◼
►
but if I which is like a regular citizen
01:21:07
◼
►
I'm not sure it would occur to me like
01:21:11
◼
►
looking at the pictures that you're
01:21:12
◼
►
showing you like this is an engine that
01:21:13
◼
►
looked pretty badly damaged it's not
01:21:15
◼
►
like a minor thing I somehow expect that
01:21:17
◼
►
I would in that moment it just would not
01:21:19
◼
►
occur to me to take a photo of the
01:21:21
◼
►
engine that's my guess as I mentioned
01:21:23
◼
►
many times the plane crash corner you
01:21:25
◼
►
know every time I fly now I get to know
01:21:28
◼
►
that if the plane does go down you know
01:21:30
◼
►
I'm gonna be thinking about Brady and
01:21:31
◼
►
plane crash corner in my final moments
01:21:33
◼
►
on this earth so thank you that means I
01:21:35
◼
►
will have some kind of responsibility to
01:21:37
◼
►
document them perhaps tweet them in my
01:21:39
◼
►
final moments on the plane going down so
01:21:42
◼
►
yeah I would be taking pictures would
01:21:44
◼
►
you be taking pictures Brady I probably
01:21:47
◼
►
would take a picture yeah but I can
01:21:48
◼
►
understand someone who wouldn't
01:21:50
◼
►
not because it wouldn't occur to them
01:21:52
◼
►
I'm amazed that it wouldn't occur to you
01:21:53
◼
►
but I can see how someone might feel
01:21:56
◼
►
like it's inappropriate like now is not
01:21:58
◼
►
the time to be taking pictures when like
01:22:00
◼
►
you know lives could be at stake sort of
01:22:02
◼
►
thing only to say that it might not
01:22:05
◼
►
occur to me simply because in in those
01:22:06
◼
►
kind of situations like people can have
01:22:09
◼
►
unexpected behavior that's why it's it's
01:22:10
◼
►
like I think it might not cross my mind
01:22:12
◼
►
but I would fully expect Brady to be
01:22:14
◼
►
taking pictures possibly selfies where
01:22:18
◼
►
you're pointing out the window at the
01:22:19
◼
►
engine that's the kind of picture that I
01:22:21
◼
►
want from you if you ever you're on a
01:22:22
◼
►
plane in the engine gets all busted up
01:22:24
◼
►
interestingly the debris from that
01:22:26
◼
►
engine was found very quickly afterwards
01:22:28
◼
►
in the barren wastelands of Greenland
01:22:31
◼
►
they found it really quickly like some
01:22:33
◼
►
of the parts that fell off the engine
01:22:35
◼
►
mm-hmm and yet they have finally totally
01:22:39
◼
►
yet again abandoned the search for this
01:22:42
◼
►
Malaysian Airlines entire plane that
01:22:45
◼
►
went missing mh370 they went missing
01:22:47
◼
►
around the time hello internet first
01:22:49
◼
►
started that I was sure would be found
01:22:52
◼
►
within two or three episodes that gave
01:22:54
◼
►
birth to plane crash corner I suspect
01:22:56
◼
►
yeah it probably did but I feel like
01:22:58
◼
►
this is the Voyager probe reaches the
01:22:59
◼
►
edge of the solar system story like
01:23:01
◼
►
haven't we given up the search for this
01:23:03
◼
►
flight several times now you're right it
01:23:06
◼
►
has happened several times and just to
01:23:08
◼
►
keep it going and quickly the point I
01:23:09
◼
►
wanted to raise because this is the
01:23:11
◼
►
latest development because since the
01:23:13
◼
►
Australian search party officially
01:23:15
◼
►
abandoned the search which upsets some
01:23:18
◼
►
people in Malaysia because there's so
01:23:19
◼
►
many Malaysian people on the planet
01:23:21
◼
►
right a few other companies have stepped
01:23:23
◼
►
in and offered to do it privately the
01:23:26
◼
►
most interesting being this company
01:23:28
◼
►
called ocean infinity I believe which
01:23:31
◼
►
have offered to search for the debris
01:23:33
◼
►
somewhere in the Indian Ocean far far
01:23:35
◼
►
off the west of Australia for free
01:23:38
◼
►
unless they find it in which case they
01:23:41
◼
►
would get a finder's fee
01:23:42
◼
►
I kind of like a no-win no-fee type blue
01:23:44
◼
►
search for a plane that went missing and
01:23:47
◼
►
I wonder what you thought of that
01:23:48
◼
►
proposal I feel like I need to see the
01:23:50
◼
►
economics of that it's it sounds like an
01:23:52
◼
►
incredibly expensive thing to do hmm I
01:23:54
◼
►
would certainly want to get the money
01:23:55
◼
►
from the Malaysian government in escrow
01:23:58
◼
►
before moving it like you know I'm not
01:24:01
◼
►
exactly sure how would be trusting
01:24:03
◼
►
Malaysia to like a pony
01:24:04
◼
►
up the millions of dollars necessary if
01:24:05
◼
►
this happens there's something kind of
01:24:07
◼
►
macabre about kind of a you know no-win
01:24:10
◼
►
no-fee type situation around like you
01:24:13
◼
►
know a tragedy and a loss of so many
01:24:14
◼
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lives and this thing that's sort of
01:24:16
◼
►
there's just something that felt a bit
01:24:18
◼
►
weird about it
01:24:19
◼
►
when I first heard it that made me think
01:24:20
◼
►
is this right like is this what we've
01:24:22
◼
►
come to do you think they should be
01:24:23
◼
►
searching out of honour or human
01:24:25
◼
►
responsibility or some other junk like
01:24:27
◼
►
that in my opinion that is what they
01:24:28
◼
►
have been doing for the last few years I
01:24:30
◼
►
mean I've been tirelessly searching the
01:24:32
◼
►
ocean floor spending a fortune as it is
01:24:34
◼
►
that has been happening and now that
01:24:36
◼
►
finally they've said look this is
01:24:38
◼
►
getting ridiculous enough Sanath does
01:24:40
◼
►
that mean it's time to bring in like you
01:24:42
◼
►
know the Cowboys I don't know maybe it
01:24:44
◼
►
is and maybe that's how it will get
01:24:45
◼
►
found you know the Titanic was found
01:24:47
◼
►
like that wasn't it admittedly a long
01:24:49
◼
►
time afterwards but by private
01:24:51
◼
►
enterprise but something about it just
01:24:53
◼
►
felt a little bit just a bit uneasy with
01:24:56
◼
►
me but maybe it's just me being queasy I
01:24:59
◼
►
think it's you wanting people to do
01:25:01
◼
►
things just to do them yeah I feel like
01:25:03
◼
►
as soon as the money gets involved
01:25:04
◼
►
you're crossing your arms and go hmm I
01:25:07
◼
►
don't know about this Malaysian airline
01:25:10
◼
►
hunt stroke SpaceX right well maybe
01:25:14
◼
►
that's it though I feel that maybe
01:25:15
◼
►
there's a bit of emotional blackmail
01:25:16
◼
►
here cuz the families of the people who
01:25:18
◼
►
are on that plane are most strongly the
01:25:20
◼
►
people who wanted to be found with very
01:25:22
◼
►
good reason who finally the government's
01:25:24
◼
►
and the officialdom have sort of given
01:25:25
◼
►
up and said look we just can't find it
01:25:27
◼
►
mm-hmm but now these other people have
01:25:29
◼
►
come in seen like an opportunity and
01:25:31
◼
►
they can leverage sort of the emotional
01:25:33
◼
►
pressure of these people who are saying
01:25:35
◼
►
no no we need it found to say to the
01:25:37
◼
►
government hey come and you know it's
01:25:39
◼
►
not going to cost you anything unless we
01:25:40
◼
►
find it you've got all these upset
01:25:42
◼
►
people and all the upset people are
01:25:44
◼
►
saying yes yes get them to do it we want
01:25:45
◼
►
it found I feel that it's a bit it's a
01:25:47
◼
►
little bit blackmailing maybe yeah maybe
01:25:49
◼
►
I feel like I'm okay with it the
01:25:51
◼
►
Malaysian government doesn't have to
01:25:52
◼
►
take them up on it yeah I guess if they
01:25:54
◼
►
get the job done then they've succeeded
01:25:57
◼
►
where others have failed so see what
01:26:00
◼
►
happens I'm sure we'll still be talking
01:26:02
◼
►
this long long into the future which
01:26:04
◼
►
happens first does Malaysian Airlines
01:26:07
◼
►
wreckage get found or does the podcast
01:26:10
◼
►
come to an end or is the discovery of
01:26:12
◼
►
the wreckage like the trigger point for
01:26:14
◼
►
the end of the podcast like maybe that's
01:26:18
◼
►
the ocean infinity other people who will
01:26:20
◼
►
bring us to an end like we no longer
01:26:22
◼
►
have a reason to exist
01:26:23
◼
►
yes because plane crash corner is the
01:26:26
◼
►
beating heart of hello Internet hello
01:26:30
◼
►
Internet its future gray here who took
01:26:33
◼
►
the plane trip and hasn't died well yet
01:26:36
◼
►
anyway but I did take a photograph of
01:26:38
◼
►
the engine while I was in the air that
01:26:40
◼
►
seems like the kind of thing that could
01:26:42
◼
►
become a bit obsessive maybe a bit like
01:26:46
◼
►
a superstition that I'd have to take a
01:26:48
◼
►
photograph of the airplane engine every
01:26:50
◼
►
single time man if I started getting a
01:26:53
◼
►
lot of those I would need some place
01:26:56
◼
►
that I could show them off on the
01:26:58
◼
►
Internet where could I go to make an
01:27:02
◼
►
amazing portfolio website that I could
01:27:06
◼
►
show on the internet I know where I
01:27:09
◼
►
could go I know where you could go its
01:27:13
◼
►
Squarespace Squarespace is the best
01:27:16
◼
►
place to go to make your website if you
01:27:20
◼
►
just have a weird obsession with
01:27:22
◼
►
airplane engines or perhaps plane
01:27:23
◼
►
crashes but have no technical skills
01:27:27
◼
►
don't worry Squarespace is for you if
01:27:30
◼
►
you don't know a thing about making
01:27:32
◼
►
websites it doesn't matter they have
01:27:34
◼
►
beautiful templates created by
01:27:36
◼
►
world-class designers you can just drag
01:27:38
◼
►
and drop your way to perfection
01:27:41
◼
►
everything is customized so you can get
01:27:43
◼
►
it to look just the way you want on
01:27:45
◼
►
mobile and on desktop and if you need
01:27:49
◼
►
any help at all
01:27:50
◼
►
they have 24/7 award-winning customer
01:27:53
◼
►
support people who are there to help you
01:27:55
◼
►
any time so if you have a website that
01:27:57
◼
►
you want to make if it's a blog David's
01:28:00
◼
►
aportfolio if it's a resume if you want
01:28:03
◼
►
to sell things online if you have any of
01:28:05
◼
►
those things that you want to make but
01:28:07
◼
►
you haven't known how to do it go to
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◼
►
squarespace.com slash hello today that
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►
squarespace.com slash hello to try
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01:28:20
◼
►
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◼
►
just a great idea that doesn't yet have
01:28:26
◼
►
a website until you make it so make it a
01:28:29
◼
►
reality today with Squarespace
01:28:32
◼
►
let's move to lighter subjects because
01:28:34
◼
►
this is on facilities plane-crash
01:28:35
◼
►
corners a bit heavy going let's talk
01:28:38
◼
►
about death yes death the latest of
01:28:40
◼
►
topics so gray your most recent video
01:28:43
◼
►
uploaded is about death I think it's
01:28:46
◼
►
about life Brady about life it's about
01:28:49
◼
►
life and death basically you're saying
01:28:53
◼
►
we should all live forever let's get our
01:28:55
◼
►
act together and do this yeah kind of do
01:28:58
◼
►
you know what can I just say for at
01:29:00
◼
►
least six months now like I've got like
01:29:02
◼
►
a list of questions in my head of things
01:29:04
◼
►
I would ask you if we have a relative
01:29:06
◼
►
things to talk about okay and there's
01:29:08
◼
►
about five or six of them and one of
01:29:10
◼
►
them has been for a long time do you
01:29:13
◼
►
ever worry that the key to eternal life
01:29:16
◼
►
like you know immortality will be
01:29:18
◼
►
discovered just after you die and the
01:29:22
◼
►
reason that questions been in my head
01:29:24
◼
►
for a long time to ask you is cuz I feel
01:29:26
◼
►
there was something about you that has
01:29:27
◼
►
like a interesting preoccupation with
01:29:30
◼
►
death and living forever obviously
01:29:34
◼
►
everyone has feelings about death but
01:29:36
◼
►
like you have in this interesting way
01:29:38
◼
►
that I think has been made more public
01:29:42
◼
►
now by your last video I'm not curious
01:29:45
◼
►
can you do you have any particular
01:29:47
◼
►
reason that you feel that way cuz I go I
01:29:49
◼
►
find that sort of surprising I think
01:29:51
◼
►
it's just kind of something I had taken
01:29:53
◼
►
on by like osmosis just from lots of
01:29:55
◼
►
little things it's not like you talk
01:29:57
◼
►
about it all the time but just the times
01:29:58
◼
►
it's come on I don't know but I'm not
01:30:00
◼
►
making it up it is a question that I've
01:30:02
◼
►
wanted to ask you for a long time
01:30:03
◼
►
because I I've always thought it is
01:30:05
◼
►
something that concerns you I think the
01:30:07
◼
►
thing that you're picking like when you
01:30:08
◼
►
say by osmosis you might be onto
01:30:10
◼
►
something there because I've been very
01:30:12
◼
►
hesitant to do a video like this for a
01:30:15
◼
►
long time like this has been on my topic
01:30:17
◼
►
list for forever but I've always been
01:30:20
◼
►
very hesitant to do it because at least
01:30:22
◼
►
in my personal experience talking with
01:30:25
◼
►
people is a topic that gets a lot of
01:30:29
◼
►
pushback in interesting ways and often
01:30:33
◼
►
quite frankly in ways that I don't
01:30:35
◼
►
really understand so yeah it's been up
01:30:37
◼
►
my list for a while but I think what you
01:30:39
◼
►
might be picking up on osmosis is the
01:30:41
◼
►
thing that I've never really wanted to
01:30:45
◼
►
out loud and that may bleed through in
01:30:48
◼
►
our conversations of death is the
01:30:50
◼
►
reverse of what you're probably thinking
01:30:52
◼
►
it's not that I actually have some kind
01:30:55
◼
►
of focus on death it's that in the back
01:30:58
◼
►
of my mind I feel like I have it like
01:31:02
◼
►
there's a nonzero chance that I might
01:31:06
◼
►
not die in what is a normal human time
01:31:09
◼
►
frame but I kind of never wanted to say
01:31:14
◼
►
or talk about it on the podcast or do a
01:31:15
◼
►
video about it because it feels like
01:31:18
◼
►
jinxing it it's almost like a
01:31:19
◼
►
superstition it's not touching the
01:31:21
◼
►
outside of the plane yeah exactly that
01:31:23
◼
►
is 100% what it's like and so I think
01:31:26
◼
►
maybe that's what comes across on the
01:31:28
◼
►
podcast sometimes when we talk about
01:31:29
◼
►
death is I have this little spark in the
01:31:33
◼
►
back of my mind which is actually the
01:31:35
◼
►
exact reverse it's not that I have a
01:31:38
◼
►
worry or a preoccupation with my own
01:31:41
◼
►
death I'm actually very indifferent to
01:31:45
◼
►
my own death because my feeling is just
01:31:47
◼
►
like well when you're dead you know you
01:31:49
◼
►
don't care it doesn't matter it's not a
01:31:51
◼
►
big deal but I do have a feeling that
01:31:53
◼
►
there may be a nonzero chance that I may
01:32:00
◼
►
have a longer than normal human life
01:32:03
◼
►
span as in oh people of your generation
01:32:04
◼
►
not just like I think I might be part
01:32:12
◼
►
Elvis no that's not what it is let me
01:32:14
◼
►
back up for a second here and say that I
01:32:16
◼
►
do think that radical life extension
01:32:20
◼
►
technology is a thing that can exist in
01:32:25
◼
►
our universe I don't think there is any
01:32:29
◼
►
technical reason that this is not
01:32:33
◼
►
possible to build as opposed to
01:32:35
◼
►
something like sort of like the Star
01:32:38
◼
►
Trek transporter which is like
01:32:40
◼
►
essentially a magic piece of technology
01:32:43
◼
►
that you know we may live in a universe
01:32:45
◼
►
where nothing like a transporter is ever
01:32:47
◼
►
built and it's not really feasible to
01:32:48
◼
►
build something like a transporter but I
01:32:50
◼
►
don't feel that way about life extension
01:32:54
◼
►
because my my view of it is that this is
01:32:57
◼
►
a biological and a physical process and
01:33:03
◼
►
it is a biological and physical process
01:33:07
◼
►
that I think that we will be able to
01:33:10
◼
►
intervene in in some way at some point
01:33:14
◼
►
in the future and then yes I think that
01:33:17
◼
►
that then raises a very interesting idea
01:33:19
◼
►
that there does come a moment where
01:33:22
◼
►
there may end up being a divide where
01:33:25
◼
►
there's like the last generation to die
01:33:28
◼
►
and the first generation that lives
01:33:30
◼
►
unusually long lives I mean in your
01:33:33
◼
►
video great you you sort of showed it
01:33:35
◼
►
graphically quite nicely you sort of
01:33:37
◼
►
drew that divide and showed like a whole
01:33:39
◼
►
bunch of people falling off one side of
01:33:41
◼
►
the ravine and the other people the
01:33:43
◼
►
other side that was almost you making
01:33:45
◼
►
manifest what I thought maybe was
01:33:48
◼
►
something that's set in your head that
01:33:49
◼
►
fear of being the last little stick man
01:33:51
◼
►
who's the wrong side of that divide yeah
01:33:54
◼
►
because as soon as you put that idea out
01:33:55
◼
►
there that does create that fear there
01:33:58
◼
►
is gonna be one man or woman who's the
01:33:59
◼
►
last person to die before you know
01:34:03
◼
►
obviously there'll be some blurring but
01:34:04
◼
►
you know what yeah yeah there is gonna
01:34:06
◼
►
be this like this unlucky generation and
01:34:08
◼
►
gosh who wants to be in that unlucky
01:34:11
◼
►
generator okay so this is interesting
01:34:12
◼
►
let me just let me just clarify
01:34:13
◼
►
something here because do you agree like
01:34:15
◼
►
with this proposition at all like do you
01:34:18
◼
►
think this is a thing that is
01:34:19
◼
►
technically possible to do you know me
01:34:21
◼
►
like I'm a devil's advocate and I'll
01:34:23
◼
►
argue against anything but I find that
01:34:26
◼
►
one hard to argue against okay black hmm
01:34:29
◼
►
if we can like make atom bombs we can
01:34:32
◼
►
just one-by-one check off the list of
01:34:33
◼
►
all the things that are causing us to
01:34:35
◼
►
age and die I can't see like an
01:34:37
◼
►
imperative in the universe that makes us
01:34:40
◼
►
die like I don't think we could you know
01:34:41
◼
►
there are some things in the universe I
01:34:42
◼
►
think maybe we can't stop like you know
01:34:44
◼
►
we probably can't speed up light right
01:34:46
◼
►
or change like the fundamental constants
01:34:49
◼
►
we can't change Pi or the gravitational
01:34:51
◼
►
constant yeah but I do feel that we can
01:34:53
◼
►
tinker with our own machinery and if we
01:34:55
◼
►
can tinker with our own machinery then
01:34:57
◼
►
yeah we probably can dramatically change
01:34:59
◼
►
it that's really interesting for me to
01:35:01
◼
►
hear I was really unsure about where
01:35:03
◼
►
where you would fall on this and again
01:35:06
◼
►
it is partly because I'm very surprised
01:35:08
◼
►
in personal conversations that it's like
01:35:10
◼
►
even talking about this subject with
01:35:12
◼
►
almost everybody puts me quickly into
01:35:14
◼
►
kooky category which is also why I was
01:35:17
◼
►
like a little bit hesitant to do a video
01:35:18
◼
►
on this topic for a while is it's like
01:35:20
◼
►
there's something about this that feels
01:35:23
◼
►
very different than the topic of like
01:35:24
◼
►
free will where people can simply
01:35:27
◼
►
disagree that you're crazy comes out way
01:35:30
◼
►
faster on this topic then on other
01:35:32
◼
►
topics of crazies the word I would use
01:35:34
◼
►
but there is a certain stigma attached
01:35:38
◼
►
to people who want to live forever or
01:35:41
◼
►
live for a long time yeah
01:35:42
◼
►
that it's not always craziness it's like
01:35:44
◼
►
a certain kind of like a bit of a knob
01:35:46
◼
►
yeah another word that comes up very
01:35:48
◼
►
quickly is like arrogance yeah so when I
01:35:50
◼
►
watched your video I actually made a
01:35:52
◼
►
little tweet and I was I guess I was
01:35:55
◼
►
being a bit uncharitable to you and like
01:35:57
◼
►
taking the Mickey oven but I just
01:35:58
◼
►
tweeted it cuz it reminded me there's a
01:36:00
◼
►
scene in the UK office where the the
01:36:02
◼
►
boss of the office this guy called David
01:36:03
◼
►
Brin is talking about like his attitude
01:36:06
◼
►
to life and philosophies to life and
01:36:08
◼
►
then one of the things he says you know
01:36:10
◼
►
he says there's an old saying live hard
01:36:12
◼
►
and die young and then he just suddenly
01:36:14
◼
►
turned serious and goes I don't want to
01:36:16
◼
►
die young I want to die old I want to be
01:36:18
◼
►
really old and one of David Brent's like
01:36:20
◼
►
characteristics is that he wants to live
01:36:23
◼
►
for a really really long time I don't
01:36:25
◼
►
remember that in his personality in the
01:36:27
◼
►
show huh and I think one of the reasons
01:36:28
◼
►
they gave him that characteristic is
01:36:31
◼
►
because it's a bit of an arrogant Nobby
01:36:33
◼
►
characteristic okay yeah I can see also
01:36:35
◼
►
I think also maybe it's a bit like it
01:36:37
◼
►
could be considered quite a selfish
01:36:38
◼
►
attitude mmm-hmm because that people who
01:36:40
◼
►
say that rarely talked about wanting
01:36:41
◼
►
everyone to live a long time they
01:36:43
◼
►
usually just talk about how they live a
01:36:45
◼
►
long time you know what if all the
01:36:47
◼
►
people around you died what would you do
01:36:49
◼
►
he'd be like no I'd still want to live a
01:36:51
◼
►
long time so there is a certain stigma
01:36:53
◼
►
attached to people who wade into this
01:36:55
◼
►
territory and maybe that's also way like
01:36:58
◼
►
some of your reluctance was coming from
01:36:59
◼
►
there could be it don't get me wrong if
01:37:01
◼
►
for some reason I could only accept
01:37:03
◼
►
personal immortality I would accept that
01:37:06
◼
►
at the drop of a hat
01:37:07
◼
►
if I keep my eye out for any passing
01:37:09
◼
►
vampires it's like it's not a likable
01:37:11
◼
►
quality to want to be immortal is one of
01:37:13
◼
►
these funny things where I've been well
01:37:15
◼
►
I've been working on this this is like
01:37:16
◼
►
an incredible rush job scripts for
01:37:18
◼
►
various reasons that are not interesting
01:37:19
◼
►
for the podcast but while I've been
01:37:21
◼
►
working on this it's like every movie I
01:37:23
◼
►
have watched
01:37:24
◼
►
the villain is obsessed with the idea
01:37:25
◼
►
about living forever yes seeing this
01:37:29
◼
►
everywhere and it's like all of the
01:37:32
◼
►
villains like this is this is a primary
01:37:33
◼
►
characteristic and all of the heroes are
01:37:35
◼
►
arguing for humanity Indiana Jones and
01:37:39
◼
►
the Last Crusade yeah it's all about
01:37:40
◼
►
like people being brought unstitched by
01:37:42
◼
►
their greed for eternal life exactly and
01:37:45
◼
►
I think that there's also something
01:37:46
◼
►
about the idea of feeling like it's
01:37:48
◼
►
generous to pass on the world to the
01:37:50
◼
►
next generation and said like suddenly
01:37:52
◼
►
you're arguing against sharing I think
01:37:54
◼
►
in a way when you start talking about
01:37:55
◼
►
this kind of stuff so it's just an
01:37:58
◼
►
interesting topic and like I said it's a
01:37:59
◼
►
thing I've been hesitant about and it's
01:38:01
◼
►
it's also a thing like I can see in the
01:38:03
◼
►
in the numbers like on all the
01:38:04
◼
►
spreadsheets of the videos that I record
01:38:06
◼
►
that it's like this is a video that has
01:38:07
◼
►
the most push back since interestingly
01:38:09
◼
►
the reddit video which still holds the
01:38:11
◼
►
record for like most pushback of any
01:38:12
◼
►
video I stopped well though it's done
01:38:13
◼
►
good viewing figures hasn't yeah though
01:38:15
◼
►
the viewing figures are good but if you
01:38:16
◼
►
like looking at the like dislike ratio
01:38:18
◼
►
it's the second worst compared to the
01:38:20
◼
►
reddit video which is the worst do you
01:38:23
◼
►
think maybe also it's because a
01:38:25
◼
►
different kind of video you made I feel
01:38:28
◼
►
like your videos have been changing in
01:38:30
◼
►
tone a little bit lately anyway he like
01:38:32
◼
►
taken on the average it felt like the
01:38:34
◼
►
video was it was more of like an opinion
01:38:37
◼
►
pace there is a thing here that's like
01:38:39
◼
►
an opinion that I want to change in
01:38:42
◼
►
people's minds and I'll be very upfront
01:38:45
◼
►
about it I don't think I was successful
01:38:49
◼
►
in it in the video I think people should
01:38:52
◼
►
look at death in the same way that we
01:38:55
◼
►
look at other diseases I think people
01:38:58
◼
►
should look at aging in the same way
01:39:01
◼
►
that we look at other disease that you
01:39:03
◼
►
didn't couch it that way did you like I
01:39:05
◼
►
think if you'd Center it on Aging rather
01:39:07
◼
►
than death it wouldn't have been as like
01:39:09
◼
►
clickable and as like exciting to have
01:39:11
◼
►
seen that title in my sub box but I
01:39:14
◼
►
would have understood the point you are
01:39:15
◼
►
making better that aging is a disease
01:39:17
◼
►
because death isn't a disease death is
01:39:19
◼
►
like a consequence of numerous things
01:39:22
◼
►
one of which is diseases another one is
01:39:24
◼
►
jumping in front of a bus another one is
01:39:26
◼
►
having Wars like death is a consequence
01:39:29
◼
►
and so framing it around death made it
01:39:32
◼
►
like a more enticing Pig but I think
01:39:34
◼
►
maybe that detracted from your argument
01:39:35
◼
►
of it yeah well it's an interesting
01:39:37
◼
►
thing like I can see it in the
01:39:38
◼
►
in the comments we're like these these
01:39:40
◼
►
arguments are people talk about like
01:39:41
◼
►
well the universe is going to come to an
01:39:42
◼
►
end eventually so we're all going to die
01:39:44
◼
►
so you can never defeat death it's like
01:39:45
◼
►
well take that like oh yeah that's true
01:39:48
◼
►
but if I live a billion years like I'm
01:39:49
◼
►
still gonna consider it a win like you
01:39:51
◼
►
get hit by a bus like you're still like
01:39:53
◼
►
it's you know there's going to be
01:39:54
◼
►
accidents and things I'm imagining six
01:39:56
◼
►
billion years old CGP grey making video
01:39:59
◼
►
saying we've got to stop this universe
01:40:00
◼
►
ending thing now yeah well I mean you
01:40:01
◼
►
know there's the multiverse people maybe
01:40:03
◼
►
we can punch through but you know that's
01:40:04
◼
►
a problem for Way future grey so I don't
01:40:08
◼
►
know how much people care that much but
01:40:09
◼
►
like the details behind the scenes are
01:40:11
◼
►
just that's like kurz cos that convinced
01:40:13
◼
►
me at the real eleventh hour to do a
01:40:15
◼
►
video on this topic because he was doing
01:40:19
◼
►
a video on death and aging as well and
01:40:22
◼
►
there's a follow-up that's that's coming
01:40:23
◼
►
out where he's talking about some of the
01:40:24
◼
►
technology of this stuff which may or
01:40:26
◼
►
may not be out by the time the podcast
01:40:28
◼
►
is out and it was really a case that
01:40:31
◼
►
like when we get together this is a
01:40:32
◼
►
topic that we we talk about a bunch and
01:40:34
◼
►
he wanted us to do it as a like we're
01:40:37
◼
►
both planting a flag here on this topic
01:40:40
◼
►
and in a way going to come out on a
01:40:43
◼
►
topic that I know people will regard as
01:40:46
◼
►
kooky like on a topic that I know will
01:40:50
◼
►
get a bunch of pushback and I totally
01:40:53
◼
►
wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for
01:40:55
◼
►
him but it also added in some
01:40:57
◼
►
constraints just that it was produced
01:40:58
◼
►
under a shorter period of time and I
01:41:00
◼
►
also didn't really want to talk about
01:41:02
◼
►
the stuff that he was talking about in
01:41:04
◼
►
his video yeah so he talks about aging
01:41:06
◼
►
very directly so I was trying not to
01:41:09
◼
►
talk about heejung so directly but for
01:41:11
◼
►
people who care about the details those
01:41:13
◼
►
are some of the details but I could see
01:41:14
◼
►
like I think I'm missing the mark with
01:41:16
◼
►
this in the thing that I want to change
01:41:19
◼
►
in people's minds if you feel like you
01:41:22
◼
►
missed the mark with her like you know
01:41:23
◼
►
slightly why you still happy with it
01:41:26
◼
►
like what's the thing you looked at and
01:41:27
◼
►
thought yeah it's alright I'm least I'm
01:41:29
◼
►
glad to say out there so I'm glad it's
01:41:31
◼
►
out there because I have gotten messages
01:41:35
◼
►
and I've seen comments from people who
01:41:37
◼
►
have changed their mind on the topic
01:41:39
◼
►
right what I would really want is
01:41:40
◼
►
something like I think some of the
01:41:43
◼
►
videos on voting that I've done which I
01:41:44
◼
►
feel like are real like lock slam Bach
01:41:47
◼
►
cases against this right that but this
01:41:48
◼
►
topic isn't like that because there's no
01:41:50
◼
►
arrows and pause
01:41:51
◼
►
ability theorem about death where you
01:41:53
◼
►
can just talk through the mathematics of
01:41:55
◼
►
a thing and it's sort of indisputable
01:41:56
◼
►
that's why like this is kind of an
01:41:59
◼
►
opinion piece because there are cultural
01:42:04
◼
►
arguments around the end of life that
01:42:07
◼
►
are not resolvable through facts such as
01:42:09
◼
►
what's just an example I think the
01:42:11
◼
►
question of like passing on the world to
01:42:14
◼
►
a next generation you can't get a
01:42:16
◼
►
correct answer on that in terms of math
01:42:17
◼
►
there's no way to show definitively that
01:42:21
◼
►
it is better to or better not to do this
01:42:24
◼
►
so like I have the feeling that I think
01:42:26
◼
►
we should push for technology to extend
01:42:32
◼
►
human life and I think we should push
01:42:35
◼
►
very hard because my opinion is that
01:42:39
◼
►
death is a kind of horrific degenerative
01:42:42
◼
►
disease and this is tremendous amount of
01:42:46
◼
►
suffering that we can avoid right and
01:42:50
◼
►
and like continued generations of this
01:42:53
◼
►
suffering I think is is really bad and I
01:42:57
◼
►
think there's a kind of cultural
01:42:59
◼
►
blindness to the suffering of senescence
01:43:02
◼
►
over time part of the reason why I
01:43:04
◼
►
really wish that it was like a perfect
01:43:06
◼
►
slam-dunk case because I want to change
01:43:09
◼
►
more people's minds on this because
01:43:10
◼
►
really it's not just about changing
01:43:12
◼
►
people's minds it's about changing their
01:43:15
◼
►
right minds hmm I really want anybody
01:43:18
◼
►
who is in medical school and thinking of
01:43:21
◼
►
going into medical research I want those
01:43:23
◼
►
people to be aware if they're thinking
01:43:25
◼
►
of suffering in the world that aging is
01:43:28
◼
►
on the board like it's a thing to
01:43:30
◼
►
consider about what is the suffering
01:43:33
◼
►
that's in the world right or if
01:43:35
◼
►
someone's like a very wealthy person
01:43:37
◼
►
who's looking to fund new projects like
01:43:39
◼
►
this is a project that has the potential
01:43:43
◼
►
to reduce a tremendous amount of
01:43:44
◼
►
suffering so it's partly how I was
01:43:48
◼
►
convinced to do the video at the last
01:43:50
◼
►
minute under constraints that I might
01:43:51
◼
►
normally not do it because it was
01:43:53
◼
►
presented to me and in terms of like
01:43:54
◼
►
opportunity costs way like what if the
01:43:59
◼
►
very person who could come up with this
01:44:01
◼
►
technology would have been convinced by
01:44:03
◼
►
your video at the right
01:44:05
◼
►
and you didn't make it and then you
01:44:07
◼
►
found yourself on the wrong side of this
01:44:09
◼
►
cliff like okay well you know what
01:44:11
◼
►
now you presented me with this Pascal's
01:44:13
◼
►
wager that I can't get out of my head
01:44:15
◼
►
I'm going to make this thing and I'm
01:44:17
◼
►
going to upload it and it's going to
01:44:18
◼
►
happen so rather than feeding lots and
01:44:21
◼
►
lots and lots of viewers some fish you
01:44:23
◼
►
just want to teach the right person to
01:44:25
◼
►
be a fisherman yes if three of the right
01:44:28
◼
►
minds are turned even slightly on this
01:44:31
◼
►
topic I will consider that an incredible
01:44:33
◼
►
success especially if it affects me
01:44:36
◼
►
directly yes if you get to live forever
01:44:38
◼
►
because of that video I think we'll all
01:44:40
◼
►
thank you gray I won't even take any of
01:44:42
◼
►
the credit for no good because we'd be
01:44:45
◼
►
hearing better for a long time if you
01:44:46
◼
►
did you would be doing about it for a
01:44:48
◼
►
long time but like I think going back to
01:44:50
◼
►
your very opening discussion about this
01:44:52
◼
►
is I feel like I was born at a really
01:44:55
◼
►
fortunate time maybe everybody feels
01:44:57
◼
►
this way I don't know but I feel like
01:44:59
◼
►
I'm I've always been really glad to be
01:45:02
◼
►
born when I was like I was just old
01:45:04
◼
►
enough to know a world that didn't
01:45:06
◼
►
really have computers and technology in
01:45:08
◼
►
the way that it exists now and I got to
01:45:09
◼
►
see all of that come online and I feel
01:45:12
◼
►
like I have a better understanding of
01:45:13
◼
►
this stuff because of that in a way that
01:45:16
◼
►
I was always shocked that like my
01:45:17
◼
►
students who grew up with technology
01:45:19
◼
►
seem to just know nothing or have no
01:45:21
◼
►
appreciation for it I always found that
01:45:23
◼
►
really interesting and counter to the
01:45:25
◼
►
predictions that the younger generation
01:45:26
◼
►
would be amazing with technology because
01:45:28
◼
►
they had grown up with it's like that
01:45:29
◼
►
turned out to totally not be the case
01:45:30
◼
►
they're amazing at Facebook but that's a
01:45:33
◼
►
very different sort of thing
01:45:34
◼
►
there's a few things that are like that
01:45:36
◼
►
I feel like I was born it like just
01:45:38
◼
►
there like I graduated from college at
01:45:39
◼
►
just the right time like I sort of
01:45:41
◼
►
missed economic down swings and then I
01:45:44
◼
►
got into the workforce and I was
01:45:46
◼
►
fortunate to be just at the right age
01:45:49
◼
►
and at the right time when YouTube came
01:45:51
◼
►
around and be able to make a transition
01:45:53
◼
►
you know it's like three years too early
01:45:56
◼
►
or too late and you know maybe my life
01:45:57
◼
►
is very different in these different
01:45:58
◼
►
ways yeah you've avoided some bad walls
01:46:01
◼
►
so far yeah exactly it's it's so I feel
01:46:03
◼
►
very appreciative of this like you're
01:46:06
◼
►
just in a general way and there is one
01:46:08
◼
►
final thing that I'm aware of that there
01:46:10
◼
►
is is this idea about following a bunch
01:46:15
◼
►
of Technology developments that are
01:46:17
◼
►
around life extension
01:46:19
◼
►
just wondering like I have been thinking
01:46:21
◼
►
about this ever since the human genome
01:46:23
◼
►
project I think it concluded in 2003 I
01:46:27
◼
►
think and like the human genome project
01:46:30
◼
►
the first time the human genome was ever
01:46:33
◼
►
sequenced like all the letters of
01:46:35
◼
►
someone's genome were read it took
01:46:37
◼
►
something like 10 years and a billion
01:46:39
◼
►
dollars to do and people who know me in
01:46:43
◼
►
real life over decades know that this is
01:46:46
◼
►
a thing I have always talked about that
01:46:47
◼
►
it's fascinating to watch that price and
01:46:51
◼
►
time go down until now we're at the
01:46:54
◼
►
point where it's like a couple hundred
01:46:56
◼
►
bucks and a couple of weeks 20 years
01:46:58
◼
►
later to get your genome sequenced it's
01:47:00
◼
►
a thing you can just do in the mail and
01:47:01
◼
►
I look at that kind of curve and I feel
01:47:04
◼
►
like it's similar to the computer curves
01:47:07
◼
►
and I think well genome technology is
01:47:11
◼
►
one of these things that you need to
01:47:12
◼
►
have on board in order to do life
01:47:14
◼
►
extension and just recently there's been
01:47:16
◼
►
developments in gene editing like things
01:47:19
◼
►
like CRISPR coming online so now being
01:47:21
◼
►
able to change genetic material on the
01:47:24
◼
►
fly is becoming a much cheaper much more
01:47:28
◼
►
possible thing for a while been really
01:47:30
◼
►
interested in like when the first gene
01:47:32
◼
►
therapies became commercially viable
01:47:35
◼
►
like that stuff is amazing you're like
01:47:37
◼
►
you're injecting and changing DNA and
01:47:39
◼
►
living people it's crazy that it's even
01:47:41
◼
►
possible and so I just I feel like over
01:47:44
◼
►
the course of my life there have been
01:47:45
◼
►
roads that are slowly converging towards
01:47:48
◼
►
this direction but it does have that
01:47:51
◼
►
question of how fast did they converge
01:47:54
◼
►
do they converge fast enough or not gray
01:47:58
◼
►
you were talking before almost like sort
01:48:00
◼
►
of the people you were hoping would hear
01:48:02
◼
►
you would be like future medical
01:48:04
◼
►
researchers who would dedicate
01:48:06
◼
►
themselves to combating aging rather
01:48:08
◼
►
than using their intellect and resources
01:48:10
◼
►
to tackle other things that may be a
01:48:12
◼
►
more fashionable and things like that
01:48:14
◼
►
but do you think technology and medical
01:48:16
◼
►
research is the problem here or are the
01:48:18
◼
►
hearts and minds that you think are
01:48:19
◼
►
going to have to be won over politicians
01:48:21
◼
►
and religious leaders and other cultural
01:48:24
◼
►
things because it feels like those are
01:48:26
◼
►
going to be the stumbling blocks I mean
01:48:28
◼
►
things like CRISPR and all these other
01:48:30
◼
►
technologies and stem cells and that
01:48:32
◼
►
the thing that seems to be slowing them
01:48:34
◼
►
down as much as anything are laws and
01:48:35
◼
►
regulations and politicians and things
01:48:38
◼
►
like that when I think about change in
01:48:41
◼
►
I feel like technology is what you bet
01:48:43
◼
►
on technology is a kind of unstoppable
01:48:46
◼
►
force once you get it going and maybe
01:48:50
◼
►
you can accelerate that through
01:48:52
◼
►
political means or maybe not but like
01:48:55
◼
►
the technology root is the 100% sure
01:48:59
◼
►
root but without a doubt I would love
01:49:03
◼
►
essentially a NASA Kennedy style we're
01:49:08
◼
►
going to approach this as a real topic
01:49:11
◼
►
from the government project like against
01:49:15
◼
►
senescence like obviously that is a
01:49:17
◼
►
thing that I would absolutely love is
01:49:19
◼
►
for a president to get up and say like
01:49:22
◼
►
oh just like Nixon had in the 70s you
01:49:23
◼
►
have a war on cancer it's like say we're
01:49:25
◼
►
gonna have a war on senescence with this
01:49:27
◼
►
like this is a well understood topic and
01:49:29
◼
►
we're going to make some hard decisions
01:49:31
◼
►
about where we're diverting medical
01:49:34
◼
►
research and we're going to play the
01:49:36
◼
►
long game here I would absolutely love
01:49:39
◼
►
I just think from my interactions with
01:49:41
◼
►
people that is almost a total
01:49:43
◼
►
impossibility in any practical way
01:49:45
◼
►
I think people push back so hard on this
01:49:49
◼
►
topic you could never get that to happen
01:49:52
◼
►
right without some kind of incredible
01:49:54
◼
►
external force so I don't see the
01:49:57
◼
►
political path as a fruitful path which
01:50:01
◼
►
is why I feel like that the
01:50:02
◼
►
technological path or like the venture
01:50:04
◼
►
capital path like that's that is the way
01:50:06
◼
►
to go that's really the only practical
01:50:09
◼
►
path forward is it just has to be a
01:50:11
◼
►
thing that becomes technologically
01:50:13
◼
►
feasible and then society as always will
01:50:15
◼
►
catch up that's not really what I meant
01:50:17
◼
►
by the question though it wasn't as much
01:50:18
◼
►
the government enabling it as stopping
01:50:22
◼
►
political leaders from blocking it
01:50:24
◼
►
I feel like technology is like bursting
01:50:27
◼
►
to get out of the gate with some of this
01:50:28
◼
►
but they keep getting knocked down by
01:50:30
◼
►
people saying no no no that's banned no
01:50:33
◼
►
no that's like you know this is
01:50:34
◼
►
Frankenstein science and things like
01:50:36
◼
►
that I don't think you even need the
01:50:39
◼
►
government to like do a Manhattan
01:50:40
◼
►
Project of death hmm you just need
01:50:42
◼
►
governments to say all right we're open
01:50:45
◼
►
to it show us what
01:50:45
◼
►
you go this is one case where I am
01:50:47
◼
►
definitely glad that let's just say not
01:50:52
◼
►
all the countries in the world are on
01:50:53
◼
►
the same page
01:50:55
◼
►
when it comes to this kind of stuff and
01:50:57
◼
►
some of the most interesting most
01:50:59
◼
►
cutting-edge biological science is
01:51:02
◼
►
coming out of China and it seems like
01:51:05
◼
►
like China is going all in on a bunch of
01:51:10
◼
►
this genetic technology related to
01:51:12
◼
►
humans and I really think that if they
01:51:16
◼
►
get anything that's remotely viable
01:51:19
◼
►
other countries just immediately have to
01:51:21
◼
►
fold on it it's actually it's a bit like
01:51:23
◼
►
a lot of the like self-driving or
01:51:25
◼
►
automation technology that like
01:51:26
◼
►
automation is so incredibly economically
01:51:28
◼
►
valuable that any country that does a
01:51:31
◼
►
good job of automating anything has a
01:51:34
◼
►
tremendous advantage over all others and
01:51:36
◼
►
so the automation just spreads very
01:51:38
◼
►
quickly like if Canada for some reason
01:51:40
◼
►
said self-driving cars are 100% legal
01:51:44
◼
►
across all of Canada and the United
01:51:45
◼
►
States said no we're not going to allow
01:51:46
◼
►
it well all of transportation would
01:51:50
◼
►
divert right it's like the northern half
01:51:52
◼
►
of the transportation economy would
01:51:54
◼
►
divert through Canada as much as
01:51:55
◼
►
possible right like it they'd have such
01:51:56
◼
►
a tremendous advantage in terms of price
01:51:59
◼
►
and manufacturing that the United States
01:52:02
◼
►
couldn't possibly hold out very long and
01:52:04
◼
►
I suspect that any significant medical
01:52:07
◼
►
developments along these lines are going
01:52:08
◼
►
to be the same thing that's like okay
01:52:10
◼
►
well as long as there's someplace that
01:52:14
◼
►
this research can occur it's going to
01:52:17
◼
►
spread outward from that point so I'm
01:52:20
◼
►
glad that not everybody is as
01:52:22
◼
►
restrictive as the United States is when
01:52:24
◼
►
it comes to some of this technology well
01:52:26
◼
►
if I can put my two cents worth in on
01:52:28
◼
►
tearing as always to do with naming yeah
01:52:31
◼
►
senescence is not a word that many
01:52:33
◼
►
people understand
01:52:34
◼
►
yeah no senescence is a terrible and
01:52:37
◼
►
secondly if you're going to use the sort
01:52:39
◼
►
of the brand or the name of life
01:52:41
◼
►
extension that might work but for people
01:52:44
◼
►
of my generation all they can think of
01:52:46
◼
►
is Vanilla Sky and the fact that the
01:52:48
◼
►
creepy company that tries to make people
01:52:50
◼
►
live longer in that's called life
01:52:52
◼
►
extension and they're like the villains
01:52:54
◼
►
at night of the film so life extension
01:52:57
◼
►
is a bit of a tainted term at least for
01:53:00
◼
►
maybe which I like very much this really
01:53:01
◼
►
does come back to you a lot of the
01:53:03
◼
►
pushback hmm
01:53:04
◼
►
stuff like senescence is a totally
01:53:07
◼
►
unknown word but it's also not a great
01:53:09
◼
►
word there's no freebooting right people
01:53:12
◼
►
just love it and they're going to spread
01:53:13
◼
►
it immediately like it's just not good
01:53:16
◼
►
and yeah like life extension there's
01:53:19
◼
►
something about this which is just like
01:53:20
◼
►
polluted in the popular culture which
01:53:23
◼
►
again is kind of why my feeling about
01:53:26
◼
►
this video is like do my best job to try
01:53:28
◼
►
to convince everybody but I feel like
01:53:29
◼
►
what I'm really trying to do is convince
01:53:32
◼
►
a few people who might be on the edge or
01:53:35
◼
►
like you know what that is a thing that
01:53:36
◼
►
maybe I should think about instead of
01:53:38
◼
►
other options your point from being
01:53:40
◼
►
earlier is totally true that there's
01:53:41
◼
►
some interesting cultural push backs on
01:53:45
◼
►
this I presume though that if it is
01:53:47
◼
►
going to be available in your lifetime
01:53:50
◼
►
Brady that you will be signing up for
01:53:52
◼
►
the treatment whatever it may be to
01:53:54
◼
►
extend your life I will consider signing
01:53:57
◼
►
up if you answer me one more question or
01:54:00
◼
►
deal with one more issue in my head and
01:54:01
◼
►
talk it through for me and then I'll be
01:54:03
◼
►
happy well who you make a convincing
01:54:06
◼
►
case for you know being anti-death and
01:54:09
◼
►
it shouldn't be the hardest case to make
01:54:10
◼
►
sure though because I don't think anyone
01:54:11
◼
►
really wants to die but can you see any
01:54:15
◼
►
merit to the opposite case do you see
01:54:17
◼
►
any usefulness and utility in death
01:54:19
◼
►
whether its population control I don't
01:54:23
◼
►
know what the pro-death arguments are
01:54:24
◼
►
but can you talk me through some of the
01:54:26
◼
►
pro-death arguments and tell me why
01:54:27
◼
►
they're flawed I want to be upfront here
01:54:29
◼
►
that this is the case where very often I
01:54:31
◼
►
feel like the arguments on the other
01:54:32
◼
►
side are a bit baffling a lot of them
01:54:35
◼
►
fall into a thing which i think is a
01:54:36
◼
►
little bit like when people get into
01:54:38
◼
►
arguments about the education system
01:54:40
◼
►
which is the thing that we have done on
01:54:41
◼
►
this podcast where they're backwards
01:54:44
◼
►
justifications for the way a thing is I
01:54:48
◼
►
have found at least personally that it's
01:54:50
◼
►
it's most useful when talking to people
01:54:52
◼
►
to frame it in a way where it's like if
01:54:55
◼
►
this didn't exist would you make it this
01:54:59
◼
►
way all right we'd like would you bring
01:55:01
◼
►
it back into existence the way it is
01:55:03
◼
►
right now it's like that's the way you
01:55:04
◼
►
should frame it in your mind like I just
01:55:06
◼
►
think a lot of the deaf stuff is like a
01:55:08
◼
►
rationalization for the way things are
01:55:11
◼
►
but gray lots of things we
01:55:13
◼
►
and do we do get rid of you know we put
01:55:16
◼
►
up buildings but then we knock them down
01:55:18
◼
►
for new buildings rather than just
01:55:19
◼
►
constantly patching them up and we do
01:55:22
◼
►
build a lot of obsolescence into things
01:55:24
◼
►
we do and not just to make money by
01:55:26
◼
►
selling another iPhone in a couple of
01:55:28
◼
►
years like there is a naturalness to the
01:55:30
◼
►
way we design and do things for it not
01:55:32
◼
►
necessarily last forever one of the
01:55:34
◼
►
arguments that comes up a bunch which I
01:55:37
◼
►
can I can see where people are coming
01:55:38
◼
►
from is the idea that if you have people
01:55:42
◼
►
living a really long time Society will
01:55:44
◼
►
never change
01:55:44
◼
►
and this to me is built on an assumption
01:55:47
◼
►
that I can see why people think it but I
01:55:50
◼
►
I just don't agree with it this idea
01:55:53
◼
►
that society changes because people with
01:55:56
◼
►
old ideas die and younger people with
01:56:01
◼
►
new ideas replace them right now if that
01:56:04
◼
►
was 100% true then yes like maybe this
01:56:07
◼
►
is a concern like society never changes
01:56:11
◼
►
or adapts to different situations beat
01:56:14
◼
►
yeah it's like it stagnates and you end
01:56:17
◼
►
up with some kind of like some kind of
01:56:19
◼
►
civilization that you'd visit on Star
01:56:20
◼
►
Trek right words like oh nothing nothing
01:56:21
◼
►
has changed for 20 thousand years on
01:56:23
◼
►
this planet right and we're just doing
01:56:24
◼
►
the same stuff all the time
01:56:25
◼
►
yeah but I just agree like I just think
01:56:27
◼
►
that that is a false assumption and I
01:56:31
◼
►
also think it's an assumption that it's
01:56:32
◼
►
just not borne out by the data like if
01:56:35
◼
►
you look at people's voting patterns
01:56:37
◼
►
people's geography is correlated way
01:56:39
◼
►
better with how they vote for example
01:56:41
◼
►
then their age is correlated with how
01:56:44
◼
►
they vote and I think we have seen
01:56:48
◼
►
enough things in society where people do
01:56:52
◼
►
change their minds because things are
01:56:55
◼
►
better ideas like the most recent
01:56:58
◼
►
example that's it's always used as the
01:57:00
◼
►
standard go to cases is simply gay
01:57:03
◼
►
marriage rights in the United States on
01:57:04
◼
►
the scale of societal change that
01:57:07
◼
►
happened relatively quickly and it seems
01:57:11
◼
►
to happen because people change their
01:57:14
◼
►
mind on this topic through exposure it
01:57:17
◼
►
didn't happen because there was a
01:57:19
◼
►
massive die-off of old people between
01:57:22
◼
►
the 90s and the 2000s that's not the
01:57:27
◼
►
changed it changed because people change
01:57:30
◼
►
their minds so I think people are able
01:57:34
◼
►
to change their minds at any age and it
01:57:36
◼
►
also ignores that implicit in this idea
01:57:38
◼
►
of radical life extension is the idea
01:57:41
◼
►
that the whole thing that we're trying
01:57:43
◼
►
to achieve here is maintaining your
01:57:47
◼
►
health at an older age so it's not like
01:57:50
◼
►
the old people are still going to be the
01:57:52
◼
►
chief executive of SpaceX but have no
01:57:54
◼
►
new ideas they're gonna have a young
01:57:55
◼
►
dynamic brain that's still gonna be
01:57:57
◼
►
having new ideas all the time and like
01:57:58
◼
►
in a perfect world you're sort of at the
01:58:01
◼
►
level you are in your 20s or 30s or
01:58:03
◼
►
whatever so that's not like there's a
01:58:05
◼
►
whole generation of oldies that are just
01:58:06
◼
►
getting older and older and older but
01:58:08
◼
►
just not dying the argument seems to be
01:58:10
◼
►
that where we're aiming for the genies
01:58:12
◼
►
curse where we just get older and older
01:58:14
◼
►
and older forever and like who wants
01:58:15
◼
►
that nobody wants that yeah this is why
01:58:17
◼
►
I get a little bit like excised on this
01:58:19
◼
►
topic is that is I think that through
01:58:22
◼
►
might be a bit harsh but through a kind
01:58:24
◼
►
of carelessness of intent we actually
01:58:27
◼
►
accidentally create that world because
01:58:30
◼
►
if we're constantly spending our efforts
01:58:34
◼
►
on solving medical problems that are
01:58:38
◼
►
further towards end-of-life like what we
01:58:39
◼
►
end up doing is what has happened that
01:58:41
◼
►
we do extend life but we extend old-age
01:58:46
◼
►
and so like we're pushing up life
01:58:50
◼
►
expansion but where we're not increasing
01:58:52
◼
►
what is sometimes called the the health
01:58:54
◼
►
span of life very dramatically like
01:58:56
◼
►
you're increasing the total amount of
01:58:58
◼
►
time that you're alive but that is
01:59:00
◼
►
increasing faster than the healthy
01:59:03
◼
►
portion of your life he's increasing
01:59:05
◼
►
sometimes you know when we joke about
01:59:07
◼
►
like Oh CGP grey is dictator and I'm
01:59:08
◼
►
like you don't want me as dictator
01:59:10
◼
►
because I would do things that would be
01:59:11
◼
►
deeply unpopular and this is one of
01:59:13
◼
►
those cases where I feel like I would
01:59:16
◼
►
pull research money and effort off of
01:59:19
◼
►
diseases that kill people in their old
01:59:22
◼
►
age and put it towards senescence
01:59:25
◼
►
research and like that would be a deeply
01:59:27
◼
►
unpopular decision but I do think that's
01:59:30
◼
►
overall that's a better decision to make
01:59:33
◼
►
so for people who don't know that's
01:59:34
◼
►
research to stop aging yeah sorry
01:59:37
◼
►
research to stop aging so yeah I just
01:59:39
◼
►
think that there is there is
01:59:41
◼
►
way that we unintentionally create the
01:59:43
◼
►
the thing that is the argument that
01:59:45
◼
►
people are having they'd like oh you end
01:59:46
◼
►
up with the society that's just full of
01:59:49
◼
►
oldsters and hardly has any young people
01:59:52
◼
►
and becomes really stagnant and it's
01:59:54
◼
►
like well we can do that by accident
01:59:56
◼
►
yeah you can do that if you were Japan
01:59:59
◼
►
but like the whole
01:59:59
◼
►
but like the whole
02:00:00
◼
►
point is with it like that's not what
02:00:01
◼
►
we're trying to do all right then well
02:00:03
◼
►
at this stage I think we're getting well
02:00:05
◼
►
into old age so we are getting well into
02:00:07
◼
►
old age we can follow this up at some
02:00:09
◼
►
point but the podcast has been going on
02:00:11
◼
►
for quite a while yes it is late in the
02:00:12
◼
►
evening here I have to go on a plane
02:00:15
◼
►
relatively shortly I know I feel a bit
02:00:18
◼
►
bad about that I'm sorry but I hope your
02:00:19
◼
►
flight goes well I have no idea where
02:00:21
◼
►
you're going or what you're doing but
02:00:22
◼
►
I'm sure I'll find out in due course I'm
02:00:24
◼
►
an international man of mystery Brady
02:00:26
◼
►
yeah that's what I am