Roderick on the Line

Ep. 265: "Cisesthesia"


00:00:01   [Music] [TS]

00:00:05   hello hi John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:11   oh pretty good we should make an accent [TS]

00:00:13   and stick to it [TS]

00:00:14   okay nothing like lips no it's not I [TS]

00:00:37   feel overwhelmed yeah you're doing lots [TS]

00:00:41   of things right well but it's just the [TS]

00:00:43   hecticness more than anything I mean you [TS]

00:00:45   know I feel yeah I feel like I'm doing [TS]

00:00:48   stuff but I'm also just like come on [TS]

00:00:49   poof [TS]

00:00:51   ain't it does not be doing something for [TS]

00:00:52   a while I need a vacation but like just [TS]

00:00:58   like if if I do just the stuff that I [TS]

00:01:00   have to do for my quote unquote job it's [TS]

00:01:02   it's more there's more to it then one [TS]

00:01:05   would realize mm-hmm now this is just [TS]

00:01:10   asking for pity or something but like [TS]

00:01:12   you know it takes time to you make the [TS]

00:01:13   show you just do the show art no I don't [TS]

00:01:15   I don't expect you to and it's a nice [TS]

00:01:17   job I really like it [TS]

00:01:18   that's not all with that all stacks up [TS]

00:01:19   in and an you account for brushing hair [TS]

00:01:21   and getting to school finishing the [TS]

00:01:23   poster and things like that [TS]

00:01:24   but then you get stuff for you got to [TS]

00:01:26   reschedule things and you get a holiday [TS]

00:01:28   oh boy you know damn Benjamin hates [TS]

00:01:30   holidays is that right [TS]

00:01:32   you never heard talk about that no I [TS]

00:01:33   don't let him talk no that's probably [TS]

00:01:36   good but you know it's uh you know it's [TS]

00:01:38   a it's a good kind of hectic I suppose [TS]

00:01:39   uh he doesn't like holidays how do you [TS]

00:01:43   feel about holidays Travis voice for [TS]

00:01:52   that one I feel like my feeling there's [TS]

00:01:55   somehow okay so first of all my feelings [TS]

00:01:57   about a given holiday are very very [TS]

00:01:59   different it's almost a form of [TS]

00:02:00   synesthesia or like there's some people [TS]

00:02:03   who can like smell colors or like when [TS]

00:02:05   they when they hear a note it makes them [TS]

00:02:07   think of a word or something like that [TS]

00:02:08   I taste taste you know how you have a [TS]

00:02:10   shape of the year right right you do [TS]

00:02:12   taste taste that's the kind of that's [TS]

00:02:14   kind of sis especia [TS]

00:02:17   Jesus fuck oh my coffee is still going [TS]

00:02:29   straight you hear that bubbling that's [TS]

00:02:30   my coffee [TS]

00:02:31   oh right when you said I need to make [TS]

00:02:33   coffee I pictured you using a coffee pot [TS]

00:02:36   but I'm sure you're using some sort of [TS]

00:02:38   like like moonshine still yes yeah I do [TS]

00:02:42   use am I have a V I'm like a monster I'm [TS]

00:02:45   an animal I just have a little little [TS]

00:02:48   coffee filter plastic coffee filter [TS]

00:02:49   holder right right it's what it's what [TS]

00:02:51   some people call poor over I would call [TS]

00:02:53   it making coffee yeah I mean it's also [TS]

00:02:55   strange [TS]

00:02:57   stiva so you were finishing of the year [TS]

00:03:01   yeah people who listen the program have [TS]

00:03:03   drawn this it's a difficult thought [TS]

00:03:06   technology to turn into an artifact but [TS]

00:03:09   but I have had a similar feeling that a [TS]

00:03:10   year as a shape to it yeah and I think [TS]

00:03:13   that it's somewhat related to how I feel [TS]

00:03:16   about holidays where I have mostly dread [TS]

00:03:19   about holidays but sometimes I'm excited [TS]

00:03:21   about it I end up liking Christmas a [TS]

00:03:23   little bit toward the end but I think [TS]

00:03:26   Dan's beef is disrupt his work schedule [TS]

00:03:28   oh but but just kind of my beef a little [TS]

00:03:32   bit too but yeah you know but it's fun I [TS]

00:03:33   mean like when you got a kid my age [TS]

00:03:35   little trips are fun like we'll go [TS]

00:03:38   somewhere for a couple days it's not [TS]

00:03:39   like a vacation but should go visit [TS]

00:03:40   somebody for a couple days and that's [TS]

00:03:41   actually usually pretty fun she has a [TS]

00:03:43   capability for joy and she's not totally [TS]

00:03:45   terrible yet so it's it's a nice I want [TS]

00:03:48   to really like you know like some people [TS]

00:03:50   like to sniff a baby's head like I just [TS]

00:03:52   want to really soak in this period cuz [TS]

00:03:53   she's gonna hate us so soon no child is [TS]

00:03:58   different that's what they say that's [TS]

00:04:00   what they say now whenever whenever I [TS]

00:04:02   meet somebody that has a teenager I'm [TS]

00:04:04   always like so is it pretty bad like [TS]

00:04:07   give me the lowdown right and it's [TS]

00:04:10   surprising the number of people that say [TS]

00:04:12   you know what it's not they're you know [TS]

00:04:15   they're great and I'm like come on come [TS]

00:04:18   on don't be you know don't be a hero [TS]

00:04:20   yeah don't be a fool with your life it [TS]

00:04:21   feels like it's got to be a very [TS]

00:04:23   challenging letdown [TS]

00:04:25   yeah also some kids are terrible that's [TS]

00:04:27   the end of this you [TS]

00:04:28   yes I mean you know I haven't been [TS]

00:04:31   around your daughter lately but in both [TS]

00:04:34   of our cases what at worse their [TS]

00:04:36   precocious a little precocious [TS]

00:04:38   precocious no fires being set it's not [TS]

00:04:40   like we have a boy even boys much oh [TS]

00:04:43   yeah because I see must see it at school [TS]

00:04:46   I go to her school and I interact with [TS]

00:04:48   the kids there yeah so I see them I see [TS]

00:04:52   them beep boys there's a little boy that [TS]

00:04:55   that that Marlo kind of counts as one of [TS]

00:05:01   she doesn't count him as one of the [TS]

00:05:03   girls but she counts him as one of the [TS]

00:05:06   people who isn't a monster yeah yeah and [TS]

00:05:10   and what's funny is that the first time [TS]

00:05:12   I ever saw this kid I was like oh I like [TS]

00:05:15   him what's his story you know like I [TS]

00:05:17   really do engage with him the rest of [TS]

00:05:20   the little boys are yeah they're awful a [TS]

00:05:24   child will find a stick and hit a [TS]

00:05:27   building with it until they're stopped [TS]

00:05:31   they just hit the building and or it [TS]

00:05:35   could just be they they find something [TS]

00:05:38   sharp and just throw it in the air for [TS]

00:05:39   45 minutes yeah and then they make that [TS]

00:05:41   kind of a game and they tear one [TS]

00:05:42   another's clothes and I don't know I [TS]

00:05:45   I've come around a little bit on the [TS]

00:05:47   idea of boys but when like in the [TS]

00:05:49   preschool and into like the beginning of [TS]

00:05:51   elementary school the the girls were so [TS]

00:05:53   interested so much more interested in [TS]

00:05:56   like social things if they're interested [TS]

00:05:57   in anything it was like you know how [TS]

00:05:58   people interact and the little boys were [TS]

00:06:01   just setting things on fire and turning [TS]

00:06:02   desks over yeah it's true although now [TS]

00:06:04   in first grade her stories about her [TS]

00:06:08   little girlfriends are all about every [TS]

00:06:11   day the Alliance is chained every day so [TS]

00:06:14   someone is now like won't play with her [TS]

00:06:18   and trying to exclude her from games and [TS]

00:06:22   the next the next day it's like oh no [TS]

00:06:25   we're friends now and it's this other [TS]

00:06:27   girl that's trying to trying to keep me [TS]

00:06:30   out and and and I would listen to her [TS]

00:06:34   stories and say like let me try and put [TS]

00:06:37   myself in this situation and you know [TS]

00:06:39   because I own that the I know there's [TS]

00:06:41   some Nair [TS]

00:06:42   raishin bias right always when you're [TS]

00:06:44   listening to somebody talks you kind of [TS]

00:06:46   have to try and figure where you know [TS]

00:06:50   some people have very little bias [TS]

00:06:52   towards themselves in their own [TS]

00:06:54   narrative and also the communication [TS]

00:06:56   skills are weird it's hard to know what [TS]

00:06:58   actually happened to what didn't happen [TS]

00:06:59   what you imagined happen what you heard [TS]

00:07:01   happened it's like it was like reading a [TS]

00:07:02   William Faulkner novel and particularly [TS]

00:07:04   like as as we say like she's precocious [TS]

00:07:07   so I'm trying to picture a situation [TS]

00:07:10   where she would be excluded that way and [TS]

00:07:15   now I know the people she's talking [TS]

00:07:17   about I know the other kids so I'm like [TS]

00:07:20   hmm okay I can see that from this person [TS]

00:07:22   that just seems like they have a [TS]

00:07:23   devilish grin about things and they're [TS]

00:07:26   but that you know but these other kids [TS]

00:07:28   seem so incapable of that but then when [TS]

00:07:33   I when I get when I really get down in [TS]

00:07:35   the dirt with them yeah it's a constant [TS]

00:07:38   process of like okay I'm the daughter [TS]

00:07:41   and you're the dog and there's no [TS]

00:07:46   there's no mom in this story so I guess [TS]

00:07:49   you can't play and it's like right why [TS]

00:07:53   is there no mom the mom died does it [TS]

00:07:56   need to be this story yeah no but that's [TS]

00:07:58   but you're also getting at something [TS]

00:07:59   that like one of the painful early [TS]

00:08:01   things I mean obviously there are things [TS]

00:08:02   like there's occasionally hitting or [TS]

00:08:05   whatever and stuff like that but the one [TS]

00:08:06   that's painful slow motion ride is you [TS]

00:08:09   start watching kids discover the power [TS]

00:08:12   of exclusion and other Ness and I not to [TS]

00:08:15   get all like you know namby-pamby but [TS]

00:08:17   like that's kind of how I am but like [TS]

00:08:18   you see it pretty early on we're like [TS]

00:08:20   the most natural formation you get as a [TS]

00:08:21   dyad you get like oh you find somebody [TS]

00:08:23   that you can hang out with and like you [TS]

00:08:25   get along and like she has one friend at [TS]

00:08:27   school like they both like Netflix [TS]

00:08:28   that's that's that's why they're friends [TS]

00:08:30   and that's the kind of thing that [TS]

00:08:31   happens and then that can maybe turn [TS]

00:08:33   into a triad well you've got three [TS]

00:08:35   people who are into thinking they're [TS]

00:08:36   kind of friends but that now you've [TS]

00:08:37   introduced this weird balance and now [TS]

00:08:40   you get an out-group and now you get [TS]

00:08:41   somebody who's stinky today or whatever [TS]

00:08:43   and somebody who like that's hard that's [TS]

00:08:46   hard to watch well and I think I think [TS]

00:08:50   my experience as a kid is that [TS]

00:08:53   precociousness is [TS]

00:08:55   is hard for other kids to incorporate [TS]

00:08:57   and there are there were always kids in [TS]

00:09:00   my school who were kind of friends with [TS]

00:09:04   everybody and it's because their [TS]

00:09:05   personality like code didn't have [TS]

00:09:13   trouble kind of fitting in and it wasn't [TS]

00:09:15   that they it wasn't that they were [TS]

00:09:16   conformist it was that they were [TS]

00:09:18   good-natured they didn't talk too much [TS]

00:09:21   they didn't but they didn't talk too [TS]

00:09:23   little they were physically capable [TS]

00:09:25   enough that they could play every game [TS]

00:09:27   and they didn't have like store they [TS]

00:09:31   didn't have strong opinions or a strong [TS]

00:09:33   need to be right or a strong like not [TS]

00:09:36   ego assertive yeah not a sense of like a [TS]

00:09:40   like an invalid sense of justice they [TS]

00:09:43   were they were just kind of easy to [TS]

00:09:46   incorporate and then there were kids and [TS]

00:09:50   I was one who had too much just [TS]

00:09:56   something going on and sometimes I was [TS]

00:09:59   at the center of a game but a lot of [TS]

00:10:00   times it was like I just priced myself [TS]

00:10:03   out of interactions with some kids [TS]

00:10:06   because I couldn't I couldn't tone it [TS]

00:10:10   down I think I was the same way I mean I [TS]

00:10:13   would did I I knew how to be funny but I [TS]

00:10:16   don't think I have particularly good [TS]

00:10:17   social skills I don't think in the sense [TS]

00:10:19   that I don't like my daughter has [TS]

00:10:21   friends even more she's acquaintances [TS]

00:10:22   who are like like you who is this child [TS]

00:10:25   especially some of these little girls [TS]

00:10:27   who are like very calm and they listen [TS]

00:10:30   and they have converse not not listen as [TS]

00:10:33   in like yes sir but listen as in hmm you [TS]

00:10:36   make internet radio why do you need an [TS]

00:10:38   office for that and I'm like oh that's [TS]

00:10:39   really a good question that's like what [TS]

00:10:41   do you do why are you doing that on a [TS]

00:10:42   Sunday [TS]

00:10:43   oh well it's that's actually a really [TS]

00:10:46   good question and they look at you in [TS]

00:10:47   those turn their head and further brow a [TS]

00:10:49   little bit like yeah they're they [TS]

00:10:50   actually want to know why I need an [TS]

00:10:51   office to make a radio show and I don't [TS]

00:10:53   really have a good answer for them in [TS]

00:10:54   that case you know nester tonight see if [TS]

00:10:57   you ever do this do you do you ever god [TS]

00:10:59   I hate this in myself do you find [TS]

00:11:01   yourself lobbying for friendships when [TS]

00:11:05   you can't work for my own friendships or [TS]

00:11:08   pick my kid up from aftercare where [TS]

00:11:10   there's a lot of cool kids and it's kids [TS]

00:11:11   who aren't in her class but you know in [TS]

00:11:12   her grade or maybe a great younger and [TS]

00:11:14   okay you know whoever I'll go you know [TS]

00:11:17   Wow [TS]

00:11:18   Wireless seems really cool like what's [TS]

00:11:20   oh yeah oh you know she's Muslim she's [TS]

00:11:24   mostly nice I don't talk to her very [TS]

00:11:26   much like wow she's really cool [TS]

00:11:30   she does lie about Wolverine if you talk [TS]

00:11:31   to her she's really my daughter in her [TS]

00:11:37   class now her class I'm pretty sure [TS]

00:11:39   teaches a socialist it's super [TS]

00:11:40   interesting the way she runs the class [TS]

00:11:41   is very interesting and one other thing [TS]

00:11:43   one of things they do is they rearrange [TS]

00:11:44   the tables like somewhat randomly like [TS]

00:11:46   once a month zero sitting with different [TS]

00:11:48   people frequently and she deliberately [TS]

00:11:49   tries to mix it up so yes she doesn't [TS]

00:11:51   arrange them for each according to their [TS]

00:11:54   need and and there's the brown table you [TS]

00:11:57   know you can guess who sits there no but [TS]

00:11:59   like you know she's like my daughter now [TS]

00:12:01   identifies this she's at the nice girls [TS]

00:12:02   table and they have an alliance with the [TS]

00:12:04   funny boys table over here alliances [TS]

00:12:07   like that but have you ever done that I [TS]

00:12:08   find myself lobbying and then I'll keep [TS]

00:12:10   coming back and I'll go man that Lila is [TS]

00:12:11   a sharp kid you see her keep that round [TS]

00:12:13   off that was pretty great you should you [TS]

00:12:15   know play with Lila uh-uh [TS]

00:12:18   Nino yeah is Nino is is a small girl [TS]

00:12:24   that's a sweet name I like that he's [TS]

00:12:27   beautiful name and I adore her she's got [TS]

00:12:31   so much personality and she is so like [TS]

00:12:37   there was a there was a girl at her at [TS]

00:12:39   my daughter's old school who I also [TS]

00:12:42   adored but who was visibly a she was [TS]

00:12:48   visibly trying to undermine other kids [TS]

00:12:52   and social situation she would pit kids [TS]

00:12:54   against each other at four years old she [TS]

00:12:58   would go into situations and just be [TS]

00:13:00   like I'm friends with you and not with [TS]

00:13:02   you and then she would go to the other [TS]

00:13:03   person and say I'm friends with you and [TS]

00:13:05   not with you mine has a friend friend [TS]

00:13:07   like that she's playing an ongoing game [TS]

00:13:09   of diplomacy behind everybody's back it [TS]

00:13:11   was crazy and I'm you know I'm a [TS]

00:13:12   grown-up and just by virtue of the fact [TS]

00:13:14   that I'm that I'm tall I can hear the [TS]

00:13:18   distance between that group and this [TS]

00:13:20   group was only 15 feet I just stood in [TS]

00:13:22   the [TS]

00:13:22   I could hear her on both sides and I'd [TS]

00:13:24   be like young lady and she would kind of [TS]

00:13:27   look up at me with this knowing look of [TS]

00:13:29   like MA ha ha ha ha [TS]

00:13:31   so I was a little terrified of her now [TS]

00:13:34   she's grown she's grown up and has [TS]

00:13:36   become like a like a gentle child I [TS]

00:13:39   don't know what she went through [TS]

00:13:40   yeah the weird thing they change and one [TS]

00:13:42   year you get one kid who's the crazy kid [TS]

00:13:44   who I guess since the office in the next [TS]

00:13:45   year they're like oh she's in theater [TS]

00:13:47   now she's doing really great yeah she's [TS]

00:13:48   great but Nino is a constant bugbear for [TS]

00:13:54   my daughter and and it's always a [TS]

00:13:57   situation where she's doing something [TS]

00:13:59   she's doing something and she's trying [TS]

00:14:03   to you know boss or she's trying to this [TS]

00:14:07   or that or this or that and I'm always [TS]

00:14:09   saying like but she seems so nice I know [TS]

00:14:11   and I get all this pushback and I know [TS]

00:14:14   she's not nice maybe Nino needs a friend [TS]

00:14:16   honey maybe you should hang out with her [TS]

00:14:18   so the thing I know about my kid is that [TS]

00:14:21   she is she has a very very big she takes [TS]

00:14:27   up a lot of space right and she doesn't [TS]

00:14:32   she needs a little bit of coaching to [TS]

00:14:35   incorporate other people's narratives [TS]

00:14:38   into her very very large and [TS]

00:14:41   well-developed narrative about whatever [TS]

00:14:43   and I think you know just doesn't take [TS]

00:14:47   it [TS]

00:14:47   I think Nino just doesn't roll over okay [TS]

00:14:49   and pushes back yeah cuz you know it's [TS]

00:14:53   socially successful I watch her in the [TS]

00:14:55   school and people love her and she and I [TS]

00:14:58   think she and I think they're just at [TS]

00:15:01   loggerheads about like just simple [TS]

00:15:05   really simple shit who's deciding what [TS]

00:15:07   the story is right and so I'm always [TS]

00:15:09   trying to make this treaty and and the [TS]

00:15:14   thing about Nino is she likes me so I'm [TS]

00:15:16   you know so she runs up to me and says [TS]

00:15:18   hi and we have our little interaction [TS]

00:15:20   and it's not like you know like I don't [TS]

00:15:23   watch my kids sit and fume about it she [TS]

00:15:25   doesn't care but but she doesn't want to [TS]

00:15:28   invite her to birthday parties like it's [TS]

00:15:30   very calm that's so interesting we get [TS]

00:15:33   the same thing here we're like and III [TS]

00:15:34   idiotic Lea try [TS]

00:15:36   and drill down a little bit like now I [TS]

00:15:38   sound like some kind of social worker [TS]

00:15:39   because I was like oh did did something [TS]

00:15:43   something happened did they did somebody [TS]

00:15:47   like her you just like no no it's like [TS]

00:15:50   you know I don't know what kind of [TS]

00:15:52   monster I'm gonna create with these [TS]

00:15:53   kinds of like these sessions that I do [TS]

00:15:56   can you point to the doll show exclude [TS]

00:16:00   your narrative where she wouldn't let [TS]

00:16:03   you be the puppy sometimes you can't be [TS]

00:16:07   the puppy but you know I think about [TS]

00:16:09   when I was a little kid and we mainly [TS]

00:16:11   played media like like I've told you [TS]

00:16:13   before we played SWAT we played tora [TS]

00:16:15   tora tora the three-hour Japanese Pearl [TS]

00:16:17   Harbor movie and we played these things [TS]

00:16:20   and everybody had these certain things [TS]

00:16:22   that they liked to do sort of like you [TS]

00:16:23   wanted to be the English guy with the [TS]

00:16:24   briefcase full of bombs right [TS]

00:16:26   everybody's got this role that they want [TS]

00:16:28   to play and it seems like a big part of [TS]

00:16:30   that play becomes negotiation about I [TS]

00:16:32   guess this is obvious but a lot of it [TS]

00:16:33   becomes negotiation about what it is [TS]

00:16:35   that we're playing right now what the [TS]

00:16:37   what the frame and the rules and the [TS]

00:16:39   tone of what we're doing is I think [TS]

00:16:42   we've talked about this before but my [TS]

00:16:43   mom had described that realization she [TS]

00:16:46   had in the 1980s when she was on when [TS]

00:16:50   she started to be on the board and she [TS]

00:16:54   would go to these board meetings for [TS]

00:16:55   school or for pipeline for the pipeline [TS]

00:16:57   okay and you know the way the pipeline [TS]

00:17:00   hierarchy was was that the president and [TS]

00:17:04   the vice presidents came from the oil [TS]

00:17:07   companies so they were never the [TS]

00:17:09   president of Alyeska pipeline was never [TS]

00:17:11   promoted from within it was always kind [TS]

00:17:14   of a plum job that you got as you were [TS]

00:17:17   working your way up in British Petroleum [TS]

00:17:19   or Arco or you know one of the owner [TS]

00:17:23   companies you would go and spend two [TS]

00:17:27   years in Alaska being the president of [TS]

00:17:29   the of the pipeline and then you would [TS]

00:17:31   have done your time and then you would [TS]

00:17:32   go to Scotland or something and [TS]

00:17:34   eventually you'd work your ways so forth [TS]

00:17:35   but up to the level of Vice President [TS]

00:17:38   was all promoted within Alyeska and as [TS]

00:17:42   my mom was climbing up that ladder and [TS]

00:17:44   started to be in these rooms she [TS]

00:17:45   realized about herself and I'm sure you [TS]

00:17:48   and I have talked to [TS]

00:17:50   that you she at the very beginning of a [TS]

00:17:53   meeting would just kind of assert that [TS]

00:17:56   she was gonna run this meeting and she [TS]

00:17:59   would do that until she was either [TS]

00:18:01   running the meeting or someone else had [TS]

00:18:06   had thwarted her attempt to run the [TS]

00:18:10   meeting mm-hmm at which point she would [TS]

00:18:12   sit back in her chair and just try and [TS]

00:18:17   shoot the guy that was running the [TS]

00:18:19   meeting down and not not in a way that [TS]

00:18:23   was you know that that she saw her role [TS]

00:18:27   as either being running the meeting or [TS]

00:18:30   being the gadfly she's gonna say keV I [TS]

00:18:34   am yeah [TS]

00:18:34   the one that was like uh hmm that's [TS]

00:18:36   interesting well are you sure about that [TS]

00:18:38   like not not to not to hurt that person [TS]

00:18:44   but just that that was what she saw that [TS]

00:18:48   was what she saw there was a need for [TS]

00:18:50   right either that either this reason to [TS]

00:18:53   take up space like she's there to be an [TS]

00:18:55   active participant in driving this thing [TS]

00:18:56   forward in a rational way right but [TS]

00:18:59   never saw herself as a as a member of [TS]

00:19:02   the of the team of six people that were [TS]

00:19:06   going to take the information in and [TS]

00:19:08   then vote on it at the end it was always [TS]

00:19:11   she needed to be she needed to have this [TS]

00:19:13   role and it was either to command or to [TS]

00:19:16   challenge hmm not super interesting yeah [TS]

00:19:20   and I feel like that is you know that's [TS]

00:19:23   something baked into people too and and [TS]

00:19:26   at least so far I don't see it in my kid [TS]

00:19:30   she if someone says you're not in charge [TS]

00:19:35   of this game you're the dog she's happy [TS]

00:19:39   to be the dog but she's gonna really [TS]

00:19:42   play that dog roll up in terms of how [TS]

00:19:45   important the dog is to the family [TS]

00:19:47   dynamic right it's I see if if she is if [TS]

00:19:51   it's a game where there's a mom and a [TS]

00:19:52   baby and a dog and she's the baby then [TS]

00:19:57   the baby is going to be a loud baby [TS]

00:20:00   and if she's the dog then it's gonna be [TS]

00:20:05   they're gonna have a real handful of a [TS]

00:20:07   dog on their hand you know what I mean [TS]

00:20:08   like they're she's it's never gonna be a [TS]

00:20:10   narrative where she's the like patient [TS]

00:20:12   mom going [TS]

00:20:12   oh come now soon oh hush hush baby just [TS]

00:20:16   kinda like she's like Jim Belushi she's [TS]

00:20:19   gonna play this she's chewing up the [TS]

00:20:20   scene yeah but but it is it has affected [TS]

00:20:27   my my understanding of being human for [TS]

00:20:31   sure watching these little humans I mean [TS]

00:20:35   in a way that you couldn't have he [TS]

00:20:38   couldn't have known right you couldn't [TS]

00:20:42   you couldn't have figured it out by [TS]

00:20:44   watching yourself grow up [TS]

00:20:46   it really takes watching someone else [TS]

00:20:49   grow up to like contextualize a lot and [TS]

00:20:55   it doesn't make my own childhood make [TS]

00:20:58   any more sense to me but I do but it [TS]

00:21:02   resonates in my adulthood somehow mm-hmm [TS]

00:21:05   you know like we we've spent a lot of [TS]

00:21:07   time going over our childhoods and I [TS]

00:21:11   kind of came to you know okay a long [TS]

00:21:14   time ago came to an understanding of [TS]

00:21:15   what happened to me [TS]

00:21:17   growing up but I just see all of my [TS]

00:21:21   adult dynamics played out on the within [TS]

00:21:24   these playground dynamics and it's like [TS]

00:21:26   oh yeah it really is like people are [TS]

00:21:28   people so why should it be that you know [TS]

00:21:32   the other thing what this is that I mean [TS]

00:21:38   I think we we've all had that experience [TS]

00:21:39   where you're describing we've all have [TS]

00:21:41   that experience of replaying something [TS]

00:21:42   in our heads and going oh maybe that was [TS]

00:21:45   different than I expected but like [TS]

00:21:47   you're also fighting this problem of [TS]

00:21:50   okay well what if you replayed that in [TS]

00:21:52   your head when you were 19 and you [TS]

00:21:54   thought you had it figured out like have [TS]

00:21:56   you replayed that again since then [TS]

00:21:58   because who knows what kind of filter [TS]

00:21:59   you had on at that point I know this is [TS]

00:22:00   not particularly insightful but like you [TS]

00:22:03   know it is it is very strange for me [TS]

00:22:05   it's like as much as I fight it and I [TS]

00:22:07   totally middle-aged man I still find my [TS]

00:22:09   own prejudice prejudices about people [TS]

00:22:12   and their behavior [TS]

00:22:13   things that I feel like are very much [TS]

00:22:14   rooted in how I felt like I was treated [TS]

00:22:16   as a kid played out where I will go like [TS]

00:22:18   not to my daughter but I'll maybe even [TS]

00:22:20   say to my wife like oh god what is her [TS]

00:22:22   deal she says that girl seems like kind [TS]

00:22:24   of a dick she seems real conniving she [TS]

00:22:27   wants to exclude people and whatnot and [TS]

00:22:29   then I'll actually spend some time with [TS]

00:22:31   the kid and you know what they're a [TS]

00:22:32   normal nine-year-old kid [TS]

00:22:33   and I'm like where did you come up with [TS]

00:22:35   that like what why did your mind have to [TS]

00:22:37   go to someplace where you like you [TS]

00:22:38   assume you know that you're bad [TS]

00:22:40   filtering from the past has to be what's [TS]

00:22:42   happening right now well except that [TS]

00:22:45   there are lots of that you know there [TS]

00:22:47   are a lot of people that seem like [TS]

00:22:48   they're really nice and then it turns [TS]

00:22:50   out they're not a lot of people in [TS]

00:22:51   though they seem like they're not and [TS]

00:22:53   turns out they are that week yeah this [TS]

00:22:56   episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:22:58   brought to you by Casper you can learn [TS]

00:23:00   more about Casper right now by visiting [TS]

00:23:01   Casper comm slash supertrain Casper is a [TS]

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00:23:33   throughout the night [TS]

00:23:34   listen you spend one third of your life [TS]

00:23:36   sleeping so you should be comfortable [TS]

00:23:38   I'm here to tell you each and every one [TS]

00:23:40   of the human members of my own household [TS]

00:23:42   all sleep on a Casper mattress we all [TS]

00:23:44   love it our cat still sleeps on a filthy [TS]

00:23:47   cushion near a heating vent because [TS]

00:23:49   frankly she's an unlovable Dickensian [TS]

00:23:51   grotesquerie and none of us like her [TS]

00:23:52   very much [TS]

00:23:53   Casper mattresses are delivered right to [TS]

00:23:55   your door in a small how did they do [TS]

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00:24:16   purchase by visiting Casper comm slash [TS]

00:24:19   supertrain and using the promo code [TS]

00:24:21   supertrain at checkout terms and [TS]

00:24:23   conditions apply our thanks to Casper [TS]

00:24:25   for supporting Roderick on the line and [TS]

00:24:27   all the great shows but uh but yeah I [TS]

00:24:35   had a had an interesting experience [TS]

00:24:38   yesterday that I wanted to tell you [TS]

00:24:42   about I would love to hear it people [TS]

00:24:46   assume that we write a whole script for [TS]

00:24:47   this or something but we a lot of what [TS]

00:24:49   we end up doing for the program my [TS]

00:24:52   internet radio show I do it my office it [TS]

00:24:54   is largely improvised yeah why do you [TS]

00:24:56   have an office to do it in the internet [TS]

00:24:57   maybe I put all this shit my family [TS]

00:24:59   doesn't want the house Oh everyone's [TS]

00:25:01   like garbage I bring home more boxes of [TS]

00:25:04   comics what about what about these [TS]

00:25:09   statues of will perform what about your [TS]

00:25:12   what about your Dead Eye the superhero [TS]

00:25:14   girl what about all these bottles of [TS]

00:25:16   kombucha from March like what's gonna [TS]

00:25:17   happen with that bottles up come on I [TS]

00:25:22   love tropicale yeah I I got a so you [TS]

00:25:26   know sometimes one of the things that I [TS]

00:25:28   do as he probably know now and and for [TS]

00:25:32   always is that I I get asked to moderate [TS]

00:25:36   things oh yeah you're a go-to emcee yeah [TS]

00:25:39   and there's and that's the thing like [TS]

00:25:40   what when I was in high school I looked [TS]

00:25:43   around the school at the jobs that one [TS]

00:25:46   could do at a school rolls that one [TS]

00:25:51   could inhabit [TS]

00:25:52   right that's right as a freshman I [TS]

00:25:54   looked at my high school which you know [TS]

00:25:56   the first day of freshman year my high [TS]

00:25:58   school seemed like a big urban high [TS]

00:26:03   school from not from the late 70s [TS]

00:26:05   because it was the early 80s and [TS]

00:26:08   Anchorage was five years behind [TS]

00:26:10   so all those all the movies you've ever [TS]

00:26:13   seen about a an American high school in [TS]

00:26:15   1977 that's exactly what it felt like [TS]

00:26:19   when I walked into freshman year were [TS]

00:26:21   you aware at the time that the yellow [TS]

00:26:23   behind I mean how how attune were you to [TS]

00:26:25   like this isn't way people dress on [TS]

00:26:27   Dukes of Hazzard or whatever no not [TS]

00:26:29   really not that example that yeah and [TS]

00:26:32   and and people I mean the world moved [TS]

00:26:34   the world was starting to move pretty [TS]

00:26:37   fast [TS]

00:26:38   but like disco and punk rock we're both [TS]

00:26:44   still pretty present culturally new [TS]

00:26:49   things in nineteen eighty one and two in [TS]

00:26:54   Anchorage and I know that they still [TS]

00:26:56   were reverberating other places but it [TS]

00:26:58   hadn't there wasn't that feeling of that [TS]

00:27:02   that there was in the states that it was [TS]

00:27:06   that things were over or ever over and [TS]

00:27:10   it wasn't until MTV arrived which was in [TS]

00:27:12   82 I guess was that right August of 81 [TS]

00:27:16   but most people didn't get it for a [TS]

00:27:18   while yeah we didn't get in till 82 [TS]

00:27:19   that's when I got a em where we suddenly [TS]

00:27:22   had access to things happening that fast [TS]

00:27:27   we had you had like up-to-the-minute New [TS]

00:27:30   York taste you know screen right right I [TS]

00:27:33   mean like it's it's it's obviously the [TS]

00:27:36   something that was way over covered at a [TS]

00:27:37   certain point but it's easy to forget [TS]

00:27:38   now how much like how likely were you to [TS]

00:27:42   be exposed to the motels Adam in the [TS]

00:27:44   ants and and captain sensible in Alaska [TS]

00:27:48   in the absence of MTV zero yeah no [TS]

00:27:52   chance of it at all and I feel like [TS]

00:27:55   pretty much the same for Florida I [TS]

00:27:56   wouldn't even know where to look to find [TS]

00:27:58   maybe not the motels but to find like [TS]

00:28:00   sort of odd stuff I didn't have the [TS]

00:28:03   budget or the purview to find that stuff [TS]

00:28:04   and then suddenly especially in the [TS]

00:28:06   morning when they showed lots of weird [TS]

00:28:07   videos you see the weirdest stuff yeah [TS]

00:28:09   and what each each new thing that came [TS]

00:28:12   on you were like okay is this what we're [TS]

00:28:15   doing now like that's what that's what [TS]

00:28:17   diva looks like hello but but my first [TS]

00:28:21   day of freshman year like at that time [TS]

00:28:24   all the football players the fashion was [TS]

00:28:29   that they wore painters caps did this [TS]

00:28:32   was this a thing that happened [TS]

00:28:35   nationally painters caps with as I think [TS]

00:28:38   I've told you the misspelled mascot of [TS]

00:28:40   our team on the back in Cooper black [TS]

00:28:42   technically green but cooper black [TS]

00:28:44   typeface yeah the boutonnieres the the [TS]

00:28:47   gulf hi busan here is we have painters [TS]

00:28:48   caps in nantes 82 82 83 as a [TS]

00:28:51   razor so yeah that was a thing I guess [TS]

00:28:54   and and it was a thing that felt I mean [TS]

00:28:56   they felt very old they felt very adult [TS]

00:28:58   they were very large much larger the the [TS]

00:29:02   seniors of course than the freshman in a [TS]

00:29:04   bubbly larger and probably larger our [TS]

00:29:07   school had 2700 kids and spread oh and [TS]

00:29:12   it was a one story 1962 high school that [TS]

00:29:16   spread over what felt like 40 acres and [TS]

00:29:21   walking in the front door I mean I've [TS]

00:29:23   been I've been forewarned by kids like [TS]

00:29:26   if you walk across the Thunderbird that [TS]

00:29:30   is inlaid into the hallway if you walk [TS]

00:29:35   across it and a senior catches you they [TS]

00:29:37   will make you scrub it with a toothbrush [TS]

00:29:41   and I and every incoming freshman was [TS]

00:29:46   like Mortimer terrified don't walk [TS]

00:29:50   across the the mosaic of the t-bird our [TS]

00:29:54   noble mascot is a Thunderbird the the [TS]

00:29:58   appropriated Native American and not not [TS]

00:30:03   not really even from our state or the [TS]

00:30:07   local cultures but appropriated from the [TS]

00:30:11   distant Native American culture [TS]

00:30:13   Utah Jazz but but but at the time it [TS]

00:30:20   seemed plausible that that schools were [TS]

00:30:25   far enough out of the of the [TS]

00:30:27   Disciplinary reach of grown-ups that [TS]

00:30:30   senior classmen could could be that much [TS]

00:30:35   in control of the school and of the [TS]

00:30:37   space that you would be getting swirlies [TS]

00:30:40   or scrubbing the scrubbing the floor [TS]

00:30:43   with a toothbrush and the adults would [TS]

00:30:44   be standing in the background with their [TS]

00:30:46   arms crossed nodding approvingly yeah [TS]

00:30:51   but my goodness what [TS]

00:30:57   I have no idea what I was talking about [TS]

00:30:59   oh you were talking about what it's like [TS]

00:31:00   to be it's okay no no space it's a it's [TS]

00:31:03   what it was like to be in Alaska at a [TS]

00:31:05   time when you were running feel like you [TS]

00:31:07   know the whole place is running a little [TS]

00:31:08   bit behind [TS]

00:31:10   painters caps you get the Thunderbird [TS]

00:31:13   but I started talking about it because I [TS]

00:31:15   had a because I had another idea Oh [TS]

00:31:18   Merlin this never happens to me I'm not [TS]

00:31:20   kidding am I like going old you can't [TS]

00:31:24   tell yet you don't know that's the [TS]

00:31:25   problem no yeah no I'm just starting to [TS]

00:31:27   like have it and realize it you know [TS]

00:31:30   yeah you know that I like I always make [TS]

00:31:34   it back yeah I make a digression I go [TS]

00:31:36   out into the woods I wander around but I [TS]

00:31:38   always come back no you do you you land [TS]

00:31:40   it you really land it but what happened [TS]

00:31:42   here should you some exercises have a [TS]

00:31:52   stroke is that what it feels like most [TS]

00:31:54   it feels like nothing it feels like [TS]

00:31:56   you're just talking and then you just [TS]

00:31:57   don't remember you might have had an [TS]

00:31:58   episode [TS]

00:31:59   what kind of episode you'd have to get [TS]

00:32:01   an EKG I think I mean it's not like [TS]

00:32:04   anything blurred listen we're gonna [TS]

00:32:05   we're gonna get this we're gonna get [TS]

00:32:07   this like it let's take a minute and [TS]

00:32:08   pause and let's hear it from our sponsor [TS]

00:32:10   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:32:12   brought to you by hellofresh you can [TS]

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00:34:47   roderick on the line and all the great [TS]

00:34:51   shows all right okay so here's what [TS]

00:34:53   we're gonna do let's let's do an [TS]

00:34:55   exercise here we're gonna do this nice [TS]

00:34:57   and easy alright alright so the [TS]

00:35:00   triggering thought was we're talking [TS]

00:35:02   about children we're talking about your [TS]

00:35:04   mom we started talking about the [TS]

00:35:08   situations where some people are able to [TS]

00:35:09   socialize with others you started [TS]

00:35:11   talking about how when you started high [TS]

00:35:13   school in the early 1980s you felt like [TS]

00:35:17   things were actually more like a like a [TS]

00:35:20   mid 70s things like punk rock things [TS]

00:35:22   like disco [TS]

00:35:23   right we're still very current at the [TS]

00:35:25   time you can look to things like the [TS]

00:35:28   introduction of MTV to your area in 1982 [TS]

00:35:31   you've got seniors wearing painters caps [TS]

00:35:33   yes seniors were wearing painters yeah [TS]

00:35:36   if you step on the t-bird they're gonna [TS]

00:35:37   make you take a toothbrush remember all [TS]

00:35:40   this clean that was a very good story [TS]

00:35:43   but I was I was jumping off into it [TS]

00:35:46   because something recently happened that [TS]

00:35:49   I wanted to tell you about mm-hmm I [TS]

00:35:52   wanted to show you about and you said [TS]

00:35:57   you said that we didn't see each other [TS]

00:36:00   all the time that what was in the show [TS]

00:36:02   was in the show the week that we look [TS]

00:36:05   that we largely improvised the show yes [TS]

00:36:07   which I you know I thought was important [TS]

00:36:09   for for everyone to know because because [TS]

00:36:12   you know they think we do work from a [TS]

00:36:14   script yes obviously it's a set of beats [TS]

00:36:17   yeah [TS]

00:36:20   [Music] [TS]

00:36:24   well I'm just gonna I'm gonna pretend [TS]

00:36:27   that that segue over into high school in [TS]

00:36:29   the 70s never happened until I can [TS]

00:36:31   figure out how to tie back in if you [TS]

00:36:33   want I need to add it in a couple ads [TS]

00:36:35   this weekend would you like me to add [TS]

00:36:36   some kind of a sound a zinger right here [TS]

00:36:38   that allow us to reboot the episode like [TS]

00:36:42   a like a how's it going John hey hi [TS]

00:36:52   Merlin [TS]

00:36:53   how are you are we starting over from [TS]

00:36:55   the start [TS]

00:36:56   no no Oh see now now I gotta I gotta add [TS]

00:36:59   another noise now all right [TS]

00:37:03   I don't know if I can find that no no [TS]

00:37:08   it's fine Oh people are people are [TS]

00:37:12   terrible and it's sometimes hard to know [TS]

00:37:16   when you're the terrible person I'm oh I [TS]

00:37:19   assume that I'm always the terrible do [TS]

00:37:21   you really cuz I mean like the thing is [TS]

00:37:23   it's like and this kind of gets to my [TS]

00:37:24   point about the changing your filter [TS]

00:37:25   feel free to jump back in at any point [TS]

00:37:26   but this is what a part of my point with [TS]

00:37:28   the filter is that I feel like I have [TS]

00:37:31   probably sanded off papered over and [TS]

00:37:33   buttered across many many things in my [TS]

00:37:36   past as because reasons you know what I [TS]

00:37:39   mean we're like I thought everybody [TS]

00:37:41   treated me this way because Beauty boot [TS]

00:37:43   boot boot and I don't know sometimes I [TS]

00:37:45   am reluctant to go too far back to look [TS]

00:37:47   at that again because it's very painful [TS]

00:37:49   well you know my my passage through time [TS]

00:37:53   personally I have never I've never felt [TS]

00:37:57   any any strong need to cast myself as [TS]

00:38:02   the victim of of situations of the world [TS]

00:38:06   or of other people like I did I never [TS]

00:38:09   felt victimized by anything other than [TS]

00:38:14   massive structures right like I nobody I [TS]

00:38:19   wasn't because I was enough of a problem [TS]

00:38:24   from a young age that there was never a [TS]

00:38:28   time when I didn't understand and it [TS]

00:38:30   hadn't been imparted to me by everybody [TS]

00:38:32   that I was kind of a problem and not [TS]

00:38:35   always a bad problem did you take up [TS]

00:38:37   that mantle at a certain point um what [TS]

00:38:41   it did was it liberated me from it [TS]

00:38:44   liberated me in a certain sense because [TS]

00:38:47   there were because from a young age it [TS]

00:38:49   wasn't like John Roderick you are a [TS]

00:38:51   problem it was always from everybody Oh [TS]

00:38:55   John you're such a problem like it was [TS]

00:38:59   nice yeah it was very it was always [TS]

00:39:02   wrapped in a warm fuzzy that that the [TS]

00:39:06   word problem [TS]

00:39:07   I heard ring in my ears as the word [TS]

00:39:10   exceptional [TS]

00:39:12   because that is not ready for you but [TS]

00:39:16   that word was used to but but but that's [TS]

00:39:18   how I heard it right so I never I I [TS]

00:39:21   never felt like oh the reason this is [TS]

00:39:24   because that or whatever that was [TS]

00:39:29   whatever um whatever system was [TS]

00:39:32   operating I recognized that who I was [TS]

00:39:36   not my behavior but who I actually was [TS]

00:39:40   was troubling or was it just wasn't ever [TS]

00:39:45   gonna fit in and I think I took then [TS]

00:39:48   responsibility for a lot of stuff that [TS]

00:39:50   wasn't mine that I that I wasn't the bad [TS]

00:39:54   guy but I just I accepted it because I [TS]

00:39:57   already had such I had this big [TS]

00:40:00   cardboard box full of all of the things [TS]

00:40:02   that I was responsible for sure why not [TS]

00:40:04   throw something you know like oh you've [TS]

00:40:06   got some like pickled quail eggs in a [TS]

00:40:08   jar short put them in my box I'm already [TS]

00:40:10   carrying a box out and I think later on [TS]

00:40:15   when I went back and looked at my [TS]

00:40:18   childhood there I actually had to take [TS]

00:40:20   some stuff out of the box and say you [TS]

00:40:21   know what that wasn't my fault [TS]

00:40:23   where that I couldn't have been [TS]

00:40:26   responsible for that because that wasn't [TS]

00:40:27   a thing that a kid could be responsible [TS]

00:40:29   for that was a thing that adults should [TS]

00:40:31   have been handling and I think I think [TS]

00:40:34   when I'm angry at structures what that [TS]

00:40:38   usually means is that there was some [TS]

00:40:40   adult who was operating according to a [TS]

00:40:44   structure that they hadn't examined and [TS]

00:40:47   that adult was doing stuff that affected [TS]

00:40:50   me or didn't protect me but I don't [TS]

00:40:55   blame them I don't think their job I [TS]

00:40:58   mean yeah the the the woman were more [TS]

00:41:01   likely man who stood aside while [TS]

00:41:03   somebody had to toothbrush the t-bird [TS]

00:41:06   probably felt like not only were they [TS]

00:41:07   doing their job but they were doing a [TS]

00:41:09   good job of their job they were doing it [TS]

00:41:10   I mean the the the vice-principal was [TS]

00:41:13   that was crucial no this is long after [TS]

00:41:16   Coupole this was you know in high school [TS]

00:41:18   at that point whoever the vice principal [TS]

00:41:20   was he didn't you don't know you know [TS]

00:41:22   they want to kick at that but [TS]

00:41:25   critic back you know what a cool feel of [TS]

00:41:27   de couleur the tennis racket was weights [TS]

00:41:29   on is that right and a cricket bat and a [TS]

00:41:31   cricket bat okay you hit both of those [TS]

00:41:33   things huh people want to come my [TS]

00:41:35   interview in his office it's strange [TS]

00:41:36   that he would have so much striking [TS]

00:41:38   sports gear well it's sort of like the [TS]

00:41:41   it's a little bit of a mixed metaphor [TS]

00:41:42   right the Scientologists go across the [TS]

00:41:44   bridge up the ladder [TS]

00:41:45   all right cool who's working on his on [TS]

00:41:49   his tennis stroke but it also I guess [TS]

00:41:52   translated to cricket a sport that was [TS]

00:41:54   not played in Alaska who knows where he [TS]

00:41:56   even got a cricket bat it was culturally [TS]

00:41:58   sensitive if he turned it over I bet it [TS]

00:42:00   had that I bet it like had the initials [TS]

00:42:04   of his his fraternity mmm but by the [TS]

00:42:08   time you get to high school of course [TS]

00:42:09   you don't know the names of the bite of [TS]

00:42:10   the assistant principals anymore they [TS]

00:42:12   don't loom as large because in high [TS]

00:42:14   school they can't they're not hitting [TS]

00:42:16   you with a cricket bat anymore it's [TS]

00:42:17   there partly because the seniors are so [TS]

00:42:19   big yeah you can't take a 17 year old [TS]

00:42:22   and whack em you can get away with it [TS]

00:42:25   when a kid is 12 I mean not anymore [TS]

00:42:26   obviously but in Alaska in the early [TS]

00:42:28   eighties no it was it was real I [TS]

00:42:30   remember being terrified when I arrived [TS]

00:42:32   at my public school in Florida and [TS]

00:42:33   there's a hole yeah I just remember [TS]

00:42:35   reading the student guide because I was [TS]

00:42:38   the kind of person who would do that all [TS]

00:42:40   the crazy rules but what kind of clothes [TS]

00:42:41   you're allowed to wear and then this [TS]

00:42:43   like fetishists description of the [TS]

00:42:47   swatting the spanking process and [TS]

00:42:48   exactly like the very specifics of what [TS]

00:42:51   kind of device was going to be used to [TS]

00:42:53   strike you and like how it was going it [TS]

00:42:55   was it was so weird it was like I wish I [TS]

00:42:57   could find it today because it really it [TS]

00:42:59   feels well it feels like porn it doesn't [TS]

00:43:01   in turn something from another time it [TS]

00:43:02   just feels like somebody's idea of like [TS]

00:43:04   I wrote this this week Inc we put it in [TS]

00:43:06   like oh yeah I don't know Jim man you're [TS]

00:43:08   pretty specific about the kind of [TS]

00:43:10   plywood to be used when you hit these [TS]

00:43:11   girls why they're bad he just read the [TS]

00:43:16   Marquis de Sade I was talking about I [TS]

00:43:25   was talking about being a master of [TS]

00:43:28   ceremonies and I had that in my notes [TS]

00:43:30   even right and the roles that are you [TS]

00:43:32   that you go to a high school and you [TS]

00:43:34   look around you you figure out what [TS]

00:43:36   roles you're gonna play and [TS]

00:43:37   all these different roles right [TS]

00:43:39   valedictorian captain of the football [TS]

00:43:40   team all this stuff and the and I knew [TS]

00:43:43   that I was none of those things I was [TS]

00:43:45   never gonna be captain of the [TS]

00:43:46   cheerleaders I didn't want to be a [TS]

00:43:48   photographer for the newspaper they were [TS]

00:43:50   there were people that just like [TS]

00:43:52   photographer for a yearbook or newspaper [TS]

00:43:54   was all they wanted to be because the [TS]

00:43:56   photographer likes is behind the camera [TS]

00:43:58   they don't really have to they're not in [TS]

00:44:00   front of the camera so they're usually a [TS]

00:44:01   lone wolf [TS]

00:44:02   lone wolf right they're there but [TS]

00:44:05   they're in the background they're [TS]

00:44:06   working alone nobody really knows how to [TS]

00:44:08   do what they're doing it seems a little [TS]

00:44:09   like magic you can be like you could be [TS]

00:44:11   like the the like coolest dork in school [TS]

00:44:14   if you had a camera yeah you get to be a [TS]

00:44:16   rogue wrote warrior you'd probably get a [TS]

00:44:18   pass I bet you get a special pass you [TS]

00:44:20   get to go to things earlier late back [TS]

00:44:22   then you certainly did nowadays who [TS]

00:44:24   knows who knows what kids are allowed to [TS]

00:44:25   do now-soy cameras on everything Thanks [TS]

00:44:29   metal detectors just to get into school [TS]

00:44:31   but I recognized I didn't want to be [TS]

00:44:33   king of the Nerds I didn't want to be [TS]

00:44:35   president of the school I didn't want to [TS]

00:44:37   be what I wanted to be was Master of [TS]

00:44:40   Ceremonies I wanted to do the pep [TS]

00:44:41   assemblies I wanted to talk on the [TS]

00:44:43   microphone I wanted to do morning [TS]

00:44:45   announcements in the school I wanted to [TS]

00:44:48   be considered the host of the school and [TS]

00:44:54   like and that wasn't the job not the [TS]

00:45:02   greeter but like you know when you [TS]

00:45:03   thought of at the beginning of Red Dawn [TS]

00:45:07   when the Russians arrived you know I [TS]

00:45:09   wanted to be the one that walked out the [TS]

00:45:10   front door and said hello the anchorman [TS]

00:45:13   yeah that wasn't a job I had to go in to [TS]

00:45:17   the principal's office day after day [TS]

00:45:19   week after week and say you know what [TS]

00:45:20   you guys really need you need somebody [TS]

00:45:22   to handle all this stuff don't dress for [TS]

00:45:24   the job you have just for the job that [TS]

00:45:25   doesn't exist yet that's right and that [TS]

00:45:27   was my job and that has continued to be [TS]

00:45:29   there was a long period you're very good [TS]

00:45:31   at it you're a lot like your mom taking [TS]

00:45:32   over the meeting you don't do it in like [TS]

00:45:34   an assertive way but you're very good at [TS]

00:45:35   like making sure that everything runs [TS]

00:45:37   well in a social situation you're very [TS]

00:45:38   good I'd like to put this person you [TS]

00:45:40   know I would make everybody feel [TS]

00:45:41   comfortable I like to duck shins you can [TS]

00:45:43   walk them over to the couch [TS]

00:45:45   [Laughter] [TS]

00:45:49   so there was a long period of time there [TS]

00:45:52   where I didn't have the I didn't have [TS]

00:45:55   access to two worlds outside of my own [TS]

00:45:58   immediate world where I could be you [TS]

00:46:01   know I love to just be that person at a [TS]

00:46:03   party or in a situation where groups of [TS]

00:46:05   people were merging but I wasn't invited [TS]

00:46:07   out into like the city to host events [TS]

00:46:12   for people because I was for a long time [TS]

00:46:15   a drug addict and an unknown now I get [TS]

00:46:21   asked to do this all the time like it's [TS]

00:46:24   a it's a big part of it well two things [TS]

00:46:28   right for a long time it was part of [TS]

00:46:30   volunteering for me it was like how I [TS]

00:46:34   gave back to the community because a lot [TS]

00:46:36   of the times what I was asked to do was [TS]

00:46:38   host benefits fundraisers events for [TS]

00:46:43   charities and it's not like this year [TS]

00:46:47   later this is like in rock years yeah [TS]

00:46:50   this is in the last 10-15 years right [TS]

00:46:52   you know like hey will you come do this [TS]

00:46:53   for the March of Dimes or whatever and [TS]

00:46:55   it was always it was an automatic yes [TS]

00:46:58   and then I started getting asked to do [TS]

00:47:02   those things where it was not a charity [TS]

00:47:04   it was like this is our annual meeting [TS]

00:47:06   or this is a we're having a having a big [TS]

00:47:10   event and we're a for-profit company and [TS]

00:47:14   I've it took me a while to realize like [TS]

00:47:16   hmm [TS]

00:47:17   so this isn't really it this isn't [TS]

00:47:19   really a benefit is it this is more of a [TS]

00:47:21   it's more of a job you would hire [TS]

00:47:23   somebody to do I've learned learn how [TS]

00:47:26   much to ask but I still and particularly [TS]

00:47:30   around the holidays right I've there [TS]

00:47:32   have been I've been invited to do this [TS]

00:47:33   five times in the last two weeks like [TS]

00:47:35   hey will you do our thing and I'm and [TS]

00:47:38   I'm practicing a little bit of the like [TS]

00:47:40   the mid-2000s Merlin Mann where I'm like [TS]

00:47:44   I'm going to say a number and what I [TS]

00:47:47   hope you hear in this number is no I [TS]

00:47:50   don't want to do your thing but if you [TS]

00:47:53   say yes to this number I'll do your [TS]

00:47:54   thing mm-hmm anyway I get a call from [TS]

00:47:58   the University of Washington and by call [TS]

00:48:00   I mean email [TS]

00:48:01   and the email said hey will you come [TS]

00:48:08   moderate or will you be the interlocutor [TS]

00:48:13   the interviewer for an event we're [TS]

00:48:16   having and I said you know sure yeah [TS]

00:48:19   what's the event and they said we're [TS]

00:48:22   bringing Dan Harmon oh my god [TS]

00:48:25   to the University of Washington and we [TS]

00:48:26   would like you to be his oh my god to [TS]

00:48:30   interview him and and host the event oh [TS]

00:48:33   my god and I was like this is my chance [TS]

00:48:38   this is it I get to bring this whole [TS]

00:48:41   story full circle Dan Harmon and I are [TS]

00:48:44   gonna I'm gonna do my due diligence this [TS]

00:48:47   time I'm gonna watch Rick and Morty I'm [TS]

00:48:50   gonna read his Wikipedia entry I'm gonna [TS]

00:48:53   like catch up on all those shows [TS]

00:48:55   everybody's always demanding you watch [TS]

00:48:56   can't make a few note cards about the [TS]

00:48:59   names of the shows he's done and so when [TS]

00:49:03   he says when I say you know I love your [TS]

00:49:06   shows and he says which ones and and and [TS]

00:49:11   and I'll have that moment of like ah [TS]

00:49:14   then I'll be able to answer I'll say [TS]

00:49:18   Rick and Morty and he'll go what do you [TS]

00:49:21   like about it [TS]

00:49:21   but I'll be I'll be ready for him cuz [TS]

00:49:24   I'll have written it down and I'll say [TS]

00:49:26   Rick and Morty or whatever I don't know [TS]

00:49:30   I haven't done that work yet but I was [TS]

00:49:33   like no but you know the thing the point [TS]

00:49:34   is the point is not what you will say [TS]

00:49:36   but that you will know what to say [TS]

00:49:37   mm-hmm I will not be caught with my [TS]

00:49:41   drawers down there with his Harmon in [TS]

00:49:43   his hand because you are now a man who [TS]

00:49:44   knows all the great shows that's right [TS]

00:49:46   that's exactly it [TS]

00:49:47   and I was super thrilled to have this [TS]

00:49:53   opportunity and so I said yes and I said [TS]

00:49:57   you know like basically like what's the [TS]

00:50:02   drill and I got this email back that [TS]

00:50:07   said well we're working on a list of [TS]

00:50:11   questions [TS]

00:50:12   that were gonna run by his people and [TS]

00:50:14   then we'll send them to you so that you [TS]

00:50:16   can go through and and make sure that [TS]

00:50:19   you know like add any edits he want to [TS]

00:50:22   add mmm and this isn't ever what this [TS]

00:50:26   isn't normal right that is absolutely [TS]

00:50:28   new to me that's something you would do [TS]

00:50:30   with somebody who's on the volunteer [TS]

00:50:33   committee or you know what I mean like [TS]

00:50:35   somebody who's got somebody who's like [TS]

00:50:36   on the on the student board for visiting [TS]

00:50:38   speakers would get to go up and ask pre [TS]

00:50:40   ask questions you would not have an [TS]

00:50:42   editorial guest moderator come in and [TS]

00:50:45   read somebody else's questions I don't [TS]

00:50:46   think no I agree that that seems odd so [TS]

00:50:50   I was like hmm list of questions okay [TS]

00:50:52   and I'm just thinking that it's gotta be [TS]

00:50:56   you know that I'm gonna because [TS]

00:50:58   sometimes right and you have this [TS]

00:51:00   experience too sometimes you do events [TS]

00:51:02   for people who don't do events they [TS]

00:51:05   don't they don't do events and it's I [TS]

00:51:07   don't sound unkind but if it's not quite [TS]

00:51:09   that they haven't thought it through but [TS]

00:51:11   on some level it's that they haven't [TS]

00:51:12   really thought it through like okay now [TS]

00:51:14   in your head walk through how all this [TS]

00:51:15   happens how we get on stage what happens [TS]

00:51:17   how everybody's introduced we talk for [TS]

00:51:19   this amount of time and then what's [TS]

00:51:21   gonna happen and that's even before I'm [TS]

00:51:23   setting aside all of the like behind the [TS]

00:51:25   scenes stuff that like if you haven't [TS]

00:51:27   really thought about what order this [TS]

00:51:28   stuff goes in and what people are used [TS]

00:51:30   to you're gonna this is gonna go slower [TS]

00:51:32   than you think and it's gonna be more [TS]

00:51:33   difficult than you think because you're [TS]

00:51:34   asking people to like reframe what kind [TS]

00:51:36   of event this is there are those there [TS]

00:51:38   are those situations and then I [TS]

00:51:39   encounter a lot of them where there is [TS]

00:51:41   someone running the event who's used to [TS]

00:51:44   running a big operation because it's [TS]

00:51:46   because it's a big it's a big event for [TS]

00:51:48   a big operation and so they they put [TS]

00:51:52   somebody whose normal job is manager of [TS]

00:51:55   some department and they say you know [TS]

00:51:58   you do the event and and they're excited [TS]

00:52:01   about it because it's their Christmas [TS]

00:52:02   event or something and they're like [TS]

00:52:03   great and then I'll get a thing in the [TS]

00:52:05   mail which is their script hmm they're [TS]

00:52:09   like you're the host [TS]

00:52:10   and so at 11:27 we're gonna ring the [TS]

00:52:14   bell and at 11:28 you're gonna walk [TS]

00:52:17   onstage and then here's your script hi [TS]

00:52:19   everyone welcome to the event my name is [TS]

00:52:21   john roderick and i am here as and and [TS]

00:52:23   then it's and every word is [TS]

00:52:24   and I'm like this is fantastic thank you [TS]

00:52:27   for sending this over I'll definitely [TS]

00:52:30   work from this outline and 99% of the [TS]

00:52:35   time everybody's fine with that because [TS]

00:52:37   there's in cases like that do they [TS]

00:52:39   usually have rehearsal scheduled [TS]

00:52:41   rehearsal they do and and in those [TS]

00:52:45   rehearsals I'm perfectly happy to like [TS]

00:52:47   do the blocking and read from their [TS]

00:52:49   script but you know I'm not gonna get up [TS]

00:52:51   and read a script to them anything [TS]

00:52:53   anyway so I so I think that this list of [TS]

00:52:58   questions is going to be sort of [TS]

00:52:59   perfunctory [TS]

00:53:00   and I'm gonna peruse it and it's like [TS]

00:53:02   you know tell us about all the shows and [TS]

00:53:04   then I'm gonna I'm gonna sit up there [TS]

00:53:07   and be like Dan here's my next question [TS]

00:53:10   what about the shows they're pretty good [TS]

00:53:13   people like mm I write and I open this [TS]

00:53:16   list of questions and it is phenomenal [TS]

00:53:27   [Music] [TS]

00:53:28   so I do there there are 15 questions and [TS]

00:53:36   they are so like specific that you got a [TS]

00:53:45   nice soft one to open them up the first [TS]

00:53:47   one in an Adult Swim short clip you talk [TS]

00:53:51   about the roles of creator and create II [TS]

00:53:53   and specifically Rick as creator on Rick [TS]

00:53:56   and Morty can you tell us more about the [TS]

00:53:58   theme of creation on the show and as an [TS]

00:54:01   artist who creates yourself is there a [TS]

00:54:03   certain level of responsibility that [TS]

00:54:05   comes with creating how do you [TS]

00:54:07   consolidate that especially given the [TS]

00:54:09   context of Rick and Morty as a show [TS]

00:54:11   acknowledged for exploring socially [TS]

00:54:14   relevant topics no one has ever read [TS]

00:54:17   that out loud until this moment [TS]

00:54:19   that's the softball that's the softball [TS]

00:54:21   opener okay I got a lot of notes I feel [TS]

00:54:24   like and and I feel like they were they [TS]

00:54:27   wanted me then to go through this and [TS]

00:54:30   below that to nod politely while he's [TS]

00:54:33   answering that excellent question no but [TS]

00:54:35   like you know put it in your own words [TS]

00:54:36   and [TS]

00:54:38   and my reaction was I have none of my [TS]

00:54:40   own words like there's no I have no I [TS]

00:54:43   could not ask a follow-up to this nor [TS]

00:54:47   would I know what I was saying as I was [TS]

00:54:49   saying it I would not know if he was [TS]

00:54:51   giving a good answer or a bad one that's [TS]

00:54:53   really really bad it's not a good [TS]

00:54:56   question it's phrased poorly and I would [TS]

00:54:58   never open with it that's it there's [TS]

00:55:01   time at the end that would basically say [TS]

00:55:03   ask him how he feels about the creative [TS]

00:55:05   process in terms of how he presents his [TS]

00:55:07   characters or something like that but [TS]

00:55:08   that's such a weird question to open [TS]

00:55:11   with you know I would not be surprised [TS]

00:55:13   knowing the very little I know about him [TS]

00:55:15   I you know let me put it this way you [TS]

00:55:17   open with that question you're not gonna [TS]

00:55:19   save yourself from the all the great [TS]

00:55:20   shows situation that is not an opening [TS]

00:55:22   that is gonna get you where you want to [TS]

00:55:23   be with that situation [TS]

00:55:24   no like question number 8 here's how [TS]

00:55:29   it's phrased okay dude ellipses why [TS]

00:55:34   Szechuan sauce does that whole craze [TS]

00:55:37   excite or annoy you [TS]

00:55:38   have you had it recently how what did [TS]

00:55:43   you learn from your experience being [TS]

00:55:44   fired as community's showrunner after [TS]

00:55:46   the third season I guess that's [TS]

00:55:48   something that I would understand why [TS]

00:55:49   people were asking let's see it just [TS]

00:55:55   goes on right and so what what so what [TS]

00:55:57   what happened was I sat and I studied [TS]

00:55:59   this this list of 15 questions and and I [TS]

00:56:04   felt like like the like all of a sudden [TS]

00:56:07   Dan Harmon was again receding into the [TS]

00:56:12   fog and I was like Dan and I was running [TS]

00:56:16   slow motion Dan no no come back and he [TS]

00:56:20   just was big you know and he could he [TS]

00:56:21   was looking at me sort of Cheshire Cat [TS]

00:56:24   and all I could see then was his face [TS]

00:56:26   smiling kind of in the through the can [TS]

00:56:30   tell you as we say in the summers in the [TS]

00:56:33   tech world you flip the bozo a bit like [TS]

00:56:35   in the sense that you know I'm saying [TS]

00:56:37   like sometimes you meet somebody in you [TS]

00:56:38   go like all it takes is them saying one [TS]

00:56:39   particular thing could be jury duty [TS]

00:56:42   could be waiting for the Train [TS]

00:56:43   but somebody says something real stupid [TS]

00:56:44   you go well I don't have to pay a super [TS]

00:56:47   lot of attention to that person just [TS]

00:56:49   flip the bozo a bit [TS]

00:56:50   flip the bozo bitch and David Harmon is [TS]

00:56:53   not gonna hear that question even if you [TS]

00:56:55   read that very well he's not gonna hear [TS]

00:56:57   that and then think this is gonna be a [TS]

00:56:58   great interview well right or you know [TS]

00:57:01   and he's gonna look he's gonna think [TS]

00:57:02   it's you he's your fault you came up [TS]

00:57:04   with that terrible question he's either [TS]

00:57:05   gonna think that or he's gonna recognize [TS]

00:57:07   looking at my face that I'm basically [TS]

00:57:08   Zoltan little jaws moving and I'm like [TS]

00:57:17   how does Rick and Morty [TS]

00:57:20   like I will have what wasn't there a [TS]

00:57:24   beginning dependent cause the let's see [TS]

00:57:27   it opened with in an Adult Swim short [TS]

00:57:33   clip and okay so I don't know I know [TS]

00:57:35   what Adult Swim is but I do not know [TS]

00:57:36   what an Adult Swim short clip is that [TS]

00:57:39   slim short clip in an Adult Swim short [TS]

00:57:42   clip which might be like it might be a [TS]

00:57:45   way of preparing beef as far as I know [TS]

00:57:48   [Music] [TS]

00:57:50   you talk about the roles of creator and [TS]

00:57:53   create he he he talked about it so it's [TS]

00:57:56   like a documentary like like talking [TS]

00:57:59   head interview where he taught a dog so [TS]

00:58:01   they're asking him about another [TS]

00:58:03   interview that he did that was on the [TS]

00:58:06   Cartoon Network right and they went I [TS]

00:58:08   have to follow up on that based on [TS]

00:58:09   something something Rick and Morty I've [TS]

00:58:11   watched Adult Swim quite a bit but I do [TS]

00:58:14   not remember the short clip as a thing I [TS]

00:58:17   guess I haven't watched it recently and [TS]

00:58:18   it must be that they get creators and [TS]

00:58:21   create ease to get up and do little mini [TS]

00:58:23   many interviews but in the context of [TS]

00:58:25   this I do not know what they mean by [TS]

00:58:27   create T like he's the one who is [TS]

00:58:30   created by is that what that we take [TS]

00:58:34   that to me to create or creates things [TS]

00:58:36   and I created T is one who is created [TS]

00:58:38   one who is created so how is Dan Harmon [TS]

00:58:41   created by either Adult Swim or his show [TS]

00:58:47   but then but then talk about the roles [TS]

00:58:50   of creator and create II and [TS]

00:58:52   specifically Rick as creator on Rick and [TS]

00:58:56   Morty and now is Rick a cartoon [TS]

00:58:59   character or is he a person [TS]

00:59:02   uh he's a person who's a cartoon [TS]

00:59:05   character on the Rick and Morty show but [TS]

00:59:07   he is a real person named Rick in the [TS]

00:59:09   world I don't think so it started out [TS]

00:59:11   apparently as kind of a riff on Back to [TS]

00:59:14   the Future he's kind of the Doc Brown [TS]

00:59:16   character but it's gone a very far away [TS]

00:59:17   away from that since the pilot so but [TS]

00:59:20   it's not that Rick is like Rick and Dan [TS]

00:59:23   went to college together and started [TS]

00:59:25   this show I'm aware of so I think he's [TS]

00:59:28   in create I think he's a create T of Dan [TS]

00:59:30   Harmon and his writing partner right so [TS]

00:59:32   Rick is not a creator on Rick and Morty [TS]

00:59:35   well so anyway I would be I mean I could [TS]

00:59:37   sit with Dan Harmon and unpack the [TS]

00:59:39   question for 45 minutes but he would be [TS]

00:59:41   like shouldn't there be somebody [TS]

00:59:42   interviewing me that knows that knows me [TS]

00:59:45   which is which is our question you think [TS]

00:59:49   about any time you're preparing to do an [TS]

00:59:52   interview or you're preparing even if [TS]

00:59:54   it's just a podcast I'm gonna think [TS]

00:59:56   about when I interviewed Hodgman for a [TS]

00:59:58   thing here in town called City Arts & [TS]

00:59:59   Lectures [TS]

00:59:59   Lectures [TS]

01:00:00   the prep that went into that and talking [TS]

01:00:01   to him and you know really talking in [TS]

01:00:03   that case talk because it wasn't gonna [TS]

01:00:04   be obviously a friendly interview about [TS]

01:00:05   his book and talking about the kind of [TS]

01:00:07   stuff you wanted to talk about and I try [TS]

01:00:08   to throw in a few zingers but at the [TS]

01:00:10   heart of it like and when you're [TS]

01:00:11   preparing for stuff like that look-the [TS]

01:00:13   quits the question is a MacGuffin I mean [TS]

01:00:15   right what you're looking for is an [TS]

01:00:17   opportunity for the personality you [TS]

01:00:19   think about a good Terry Gross interview [TS]

01:00:21   like a class a Terry Gross interview is [TS]

01:00:23   where she talks to somebody where she [TS]

01:00:24   doesn't really know much about what that [TS]

01:00:25   person does but ends up very curious [TS]

01:00:27   about an angle into what they do that [TS]

01:00:29   gives them an opportunity to say [TS]

01:00:31   something they never knew they thought [TS]

01:00:33   about that topic right dude I'm saying [TS]

01:00:35   that's that's I'm maybe getting to [TS]

01:00:37   inside my own head here but I think the [TS]

01:00:38   goal of a good interview is to not be [TS]

01:00:41   like a fucking writer for pitchfork and [TS]

01:00:42   go look at me notice what I'm creating [TS]

01:00:44   it's more to get out of the way and just [TS]

01:00:46   provide enough ammunition for that [TS]

01:00:48   person to go off in a direction that's [TS]

01:00:50   gonna be interesting novel and my goal [TS]

01:00:52   would be try to get them to say [TS]

01:00:53   something now that they maybe something [TS]

01:00:55   they want to say but get him to have a [TS]

01:00:57   thought they didn't realize they'd had [TS]

01:00:59   and have them articulated in a way that [TS]

01:01:01   surprises and delights them give them [TS]

01:01:02   the ammunition for that right question [TS]

01:01:05   like that does not do that [TS]

01:01:06   a question like that wants to be written [TS]

01:01:07   on a whiteboard and diagrammed yeah and [TS]

01:01:10   it's and it's obvious it was obvious to [TS]

01:01:12   me as I was reading it like oh this was [TS]

01:01:14   the problem between me and Dan Harmon [TS]

01:01:17   the last time we met coming through the [TS]

01:01:19   Rye which was this is the level of [TS]

01:01:22   fandom that he's used to encountering [TS]

01:01:25   like this these questions were obviously [TS]

01:01:28   put together by students at the [TS]

01:01:30   University who were very excited that [TS]

01:01:32   it's put together by someone who's [TS]

01:01:34   partway through college and and probably [TS]

01:01:37   a team of them because the the [TS]

01:01:39   suggestion as I was waiting for these [TS]

01:01:42   questions to arrive was like we're [TS]

01:01:43   working on these questions and I do [TS]

01:01:47   events for the university all the time [TS]

01:01:49   and I really like the guy that puts on [TS]

01:01:50   events there the last one I did was with [TS]

01:01:52   Adam Savage and the way that I prepared [TS]

01:01:55   for it was I had three cups of coffee [TS]

01:01:56   and some peanut M&Ms and then I got up [TS]

01:02:00   on stage and I was like all right here [TS]

01:02:02   he is so you know so tell me [TS]

01:02:05   Anson he's such our hot like you heard [TS]

01:02:08   you're a guy that makes things like what [TS]

01:02:10   do you say about that and he's like I do [TS]

01:02:12   make [TS]

01:02:13   you know he's like he doesn't and I [TS]

01:02:15   don't think Dan Harmon probably needs [TS]

01:02:16   much help to get going so I was you know [TS]

01:02:22   I was prepared to have some fun with it [TS]

01:02:24   but but reading this I was like I I [TS]

01:02:28   really do feel like the expectations of [TS]

01:02:31   the students are very high first of all [TS]

01:02:36   for what we're gonna you know we're [TS]

01:02:38   gonna put Dan Harmon to the grill here [TS]

01:02:41   yeah because that question goes the [TS]

01:02:44   question that I just read the first half [TS]

01:02:45   of goes on for a while and uses the word [TS]

01:02:49   create or three more times so he does [TS]

01:02:55   feel like maybe he is the creator okay [TS]

01:02:58   to some of them anyway I wrote the [TS]

01:03:00   University and my friend their second [TS]

01:03:02   letter and I said I sent them a letter [TS]

01:03:04   and I said this is the rare rare [TS]

01:03:10   occasion where I feel like I'm the wrong [TS]

01:03:14   guy for this job I do not think I do not [TS]

01:03:19   think I will do a good job usually as [TS]

01:03:22   the emcee in Waiting you see nothing but [TS]

01:03:24   opportunities where you could go in and [TS]

01:03:27   contribute something in this case the [TS]

01:03:28   rare rare instance where you feel like [TS]

01:03:31   you're the wrong match as I'm sue for [TS]

01:03:33   this that's right I have never written [TS]

01:03:35   that letter before you know what I feel [TS]

01:03:37   like I'm the wrong guy for this it's [TS]

01:03:39   never I never feel that way I'm oh I'm [TS]

01:03:41   always like Oh what do you need like are [TS]

01:03:43   we talking serious are we being funny is [TS]

01:03:45   this supposed to be light is this [TS]

01:03:46   supposed to be dark are we is this [TS]

01:03:49   meaningful are we gonna see a montage of [TS]

01:03:52   kids that we've helped or are we going [TS]

01:03:56   to are we just trying to auction off [TS]

01:03:58   some funny thing while we're all dressed [TS]

01:04:00   like seven bits right that's right and [TS]

01:04:02   all if I may the thread in all of those [TS]

01:04:03   I feel like it seems like you're talking [TS]

01:04:05   about yourself and what you what you do [TS]

01:04:07   but the threat in all of those is that [TS]

01:04:10   you I feel like is that you have a sense [TS]

01:04:13   of it's gonna begin like this and then I [TS]

01:04:16   want people to feel like that and a lot [TS]

01:04:18   of times that's they want them to be I [TS]

01:04:20   want to feel laughter and entertained I [TS]

01:04:22   want them to feel in on the joke I want [TS]

01:04:23   them to feel that their efforts have had [TS]

01:04:26   a great effect [TS]

01:04:27   people that they don't even know like [TS]

01:04:28   you have a sense like you could may not [TS]

01:04:30   articulate it that way but you know what [TS]

01:04:32   the tone of it is supposed to be if that [TS]

01:04:34   question goes great how is Dan Harmon's [TS]

01:04:37   supposed to feel [TS]

01:04:38   how is everybody in the room supposed to [TS]

01:04:39   feel except from except for awkward [TS]

01:04:41   right well with the Adam Savage thing I [TS]

01:04:44   mean the surprise to me I've never I've [TS]

01:04:47   never seen it quite this way but it was [TS]

01:04:51   a it was a packed house and at the end [TS]

01:04:53   during the question period probably 60% [TS]

01:04:58   of the people who got up to ask a [TS]

01:05:00   question got up and said watching your [TS]

01:05:04   show as a kid is the reason that I went [TS]

01:05:06   into the sciences and now I am here [TS]

01:05:10   getting a master's degree in particle [TS]

01:05:14   physics and I owe it all to you and 60% [TS]

01:05:17   of the people either started with that [TS]

01:05:19   or that's all they wanted to get up and [TS]

01:05:21   say and and it was complete like [TS]

01:05:25   completely a diverse group of people [TS]

01:05:30   right it was equal number of men and [TS]

01:05:32   women equal number of people of all [TS]

01:05:35   races it was a complete rainbow room and [TS]

01:05:38   they all had this same experience and I [TS]

01:05:41   was just like wow I I didn't realize [TS]

01:05:46   what uh what a powerful religious figure [TS]

01:05:51   he is and and Mythbusters was in terms [TS]

01:05:54   of like turning a generation of curious [TS]

01:05:57   kids into scientists and I was looking [TS]

01:06:00   forward to figuring this out about Dan [TS]

01:06:03   Harmon to through this process of like [TS]

01:06:05   so Dan honestly you and I are about the [TS]

01:06:08   same age you seem to be a very popular [TS]

01:06:14   creator of things mm-hmm you know and go [TS]

01:06:17   from there right anyway I wrote and said [TS]

01:06:20   wasn't even setting aside the fact that [TS]

01:06:22   the thing hiding in plain sight and we [TS]

01:06:25   talked about a little bit last time [TS]

01:06:25   which is that he is a notoriously tough [TS]

01:06:28   nut to crack right I mean and that it's [TS]

01:06:31   that we should not skip over that but [TS]

01:06:32   apparently he is irascible [TS]

01:06:37   like yeah he he will be very provocative [TS]

01:06:40   with [TS]

01:06:40   little provocation yes this was what I [TS]

01:06:43   was really looking forward to you know [TS]

01:06:45   we should give hell you could toss you [TS]

01:06:46   know we didn't have a chance before you [TS]

01:06:48   know we're standing in his green room [TS]

01:06:50   and I was like hey so you are the I'm [TS]

01:06:55   supposed to meet you mister people are [TS]

01:07:00   acting like it's really great that [TS]

01:07:01   you're here here oh my god [TS]

01:07:04   and now I was gonna be like Oh johnny on [TS]

01:07:06   the spot about it let's get into it Dan [TS]

01:07:08   Harmon uh like that what that didn't [TS]

01:07:12   intimidate me at all but boy these [TS]

01:07:13   questions didn't so I yeah I first time [TS]

01:07:16   first time in ever I I wrote and said [TS]

01:07:19   I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to say [TS]

01:07:23   no thank you [TS]

01:07:25   to this to this offer and not because I [TS]

01:07:28   don't want to do it but because because [TS]

01:07:31   you guys want a you want a very [TS]

01:07:33   different thing this reads more like a [TS]

01:07:36   Stassi interrogation and I wouldn't know [TS]

01:07:41   I don't understand the question access [TS]

01:07:49   to the mailbox at the time your shoes [TS]

01:07:53   have not around the edges would you like [TS]

01:07:58   a cigarette you put out a bunch of [TS]

01:08:03   folders and you just kind of casually [TS]

01:08:05   pickle what's obviously above like it's [TS]

01:08:07   just got a wire yes tell me mister dunne [TS]

01:08:13   home and where do you get your ideas [TS]

01:08:16   [Laughter] [TS]

01:08:21   [Music] [TS]

01:08:29   remind you were selling t-shirts for two [TS]

01:08:31   weeks you can go and pre-order t-shirts [TS]

01:08:32   for the router from the line program Oh [TS]

01:08:34   shucky darns yeah check it darn and slap [TS]

01:08:36   the chickens so you we have we have a [TS]

01:08:39   show shirt so should we have four we [TS]

01:08:42   have four three we have three designs of [TS]

01:08:45   shirt this is a terrible URL you just go [TS]

01:08:48   to show notes and you'll see a link to [TS]

01:08:49   it in there but you go to cotton beer [TS]

01:08:50   calm mm-hm I think it's cotton guru calm [TS]

01:08:53   slash people slash rod [TS]

01:08:54   - /on - fine - that's the - line I think [TS]

01:09:01   that's it but if you go to show notes [TS]

01:09:02   you'll see it but you can go and so [TS]

01:09:04   we've got the return of the pound sign [TS]

01:09:06   supertrain shirt we have the ding [TS]

01:09:07   Roderick red wine orange bell and a [TS]

01:09:10   brand new shirt that ironically enough [TS]

01:09:13   even all the great shows t-shirt you can [TS]

01:09:15   get all the great shows it has it has [TS]

01:09:19   been I've been made aware of the fact [TS]

01:09:21   that all the great shows has gone out [TS]

01:09:24   into the world and all the time it's [TS]

01:09:26   done it's gone wide and are completely [TS]

01:09:28   yeah it's a it's in the podcast [TS]

01:09:29   community right as I say much and what [TS]

01:09:32   does it what does it mean to other [TS]

01:09:35   people in the podcast community is it [TS]

01:09:37   being used appropriately or as it has [TS]

01:09:39   the meaning morphed well like all these [TS]

01:09:42   kinds of things I think the people who [TS]

01:09:45   spread it very much know where it's from [TS]

01:09:46   I'm not sure that people hear it always [TS]

01:09:48   know although I think it's kind of it's [TS]

01:09:51   gotten some currency but yeah like among [TS]

01:09:53   people who've listened to this program [TS]

01:09:55   and have other podcasts or podcast [TS]

01:09:56   networks it's become kind of the [TS]

01:09:57   parlance you can always tell it's caught [TS]

01:09:59   on when you say a certain kind of thing [TS]

01:10:02   and then there's a slack slack bought [TS]

01:10:04   auto-response that dumps and all all the [TS]

01:10:06   great shows in like that's a good sign [TS]

01:10:08   that you've been meaned around designed [TS]

01:10:12   by our friends at Cotton Bureau and I I [TS]

01:10:14   don't want to get us in trouble from an [TS]

01:10:16   IP standpoint but I would say it's [TS]

01:10:17   basically it's a t-shirt it says all the [TS]

01:10:19   great shows doesn't sound so great but [TS]

01:10:21   it's print pretty much the all in the [TS]

01:10:23   family font it's a great fun it's a [TS]

01:10:25   really good the first thing did it I [TS]

01:10:26   think they said it in Cooper black and [TS]

01:10:28   that looked great [TS]

01:10:29   but I think I don't know what this face [TS]

01:10:31   is called but it looks really sharp and [TS]

01:10:33   you can get it at Cotton Bureau like I [TS]

01:10:36   said go to the show notes Roderick on [TS]

01:10:37   the line calm for this episode you'll [TS]

01:10:39   find a link to it it's a it's a shirt [TS]

01:10:40   that I would wear I absolutely would [TS]

01:10:42   wear this shirt I would give it as a [TS]

01:10:43   gift I may give it as a gift what isn't [TS]

01:10:47   that great when it when everybody opens [TS]

01:10:49   the president it's a present from you [TS]

01:10:51   about you once I had a housewarming [TS]

01:10:53   party and an acquaintance arrived and [TS]

01:10:55   said he had a gift for me and what he [TS]

01:10:57   gave me was his vanity printed book of [TS]

01:11:00   essays that he had signed [TS]

01:11:03   haha I said thanks buddy I have a full [TS]

01:11:07   picture of you on my piano [TS]

01:11:09   what and it was one of it was during [TS]

01:11:16   your period where you were doing [TS]

01:11:19   business cards and stuff you had that [TS]

01:11:21   wonderful picture of you standing on a [TS]

01:11:23   chair in the middle of a field of mall [TS]

01:11:24   Ivy that's a great really shouting [TS]

01:11:27   format slap laptop laptop shouting at a [TS]

01:11:31   four tall hair one sweater look a little [TS]

01:11:34   chunky and screaming into the forest [TS]

01:11:35   yeah I really it really really spoke to [TS]

01:11:38   me it's really the Merlin man that I [TS]

01:11:40   know best [TS]

01:11:41   I think know it love and so I took that [TS]

01:11:44   picture and I put it in a frame and I [TS]

01:11:46   put it on my piano and it's just one of [TS]

01:11:49   the things that is in the house it's [TS]

01:11:51   just Merlin shouting at the forest it's [TS]

01:11:53   uh [TS]

01:11:53   and I've always as I walked past it [TS]

01:11:56   because I you know I see it 40 times a [TS]

01:11:57   day it's the type of thing I really wish [TS]

01:12:00   that you would give out at Christmas a [TS]

01:12:03   framed photo was yourself shouting at [TS]

01:12:05   the forest because I think everyone in [TS]

01:12:08   your life would put it on their piano [TS]

01:12:10   huh you think that's that's the gift but [TS]

01:12:13   in particularly that's the photo this [TS]

01:12:14   should be in the gift well no I think if [TS]

01:12:16   you because you take pretty good [TS]

01:12:17   pictures and you've you've had some [TS]

01:12:19   iconic pictures taken over the years I [TS]

01:12:21   think if you gave out a series or like [TS]

01:12:24   just you know just made coasters or [TS]

01:12:26   whatever but if you gave out a series of [TS]

01:12:28   framed photos of yourself oh it may be a [TS]

01:12:31   copy of my signed it for you [TS]

01:12:36   hey I got you something enjoy the new [TS]

01:12:38   house yeah Merry Christmas [TS]

01:12:41   let me ask you this so go goodbye the [TS]

01:12:43   fucking shirt the thing I wanted to ask [TS]

01:12:46   you if this were an alternate universe [TS]

01:12:49   if we're in the the the ultimate Dan [TS]

01:12:52   Harmon universe and you had the [TS]

01:12:54   opportunity to go and do the interview [TS]

01:12:56   you'd like with him mm-hmm [TS]

01:12:58   how would you open I mean I know I'm [TS]

01:13:02   putting you on the spot a little bit [TS]

01:13:03   but knowing but like setting everything [TS]

01:13:05   else aside if somebody says to you okay [TS]

01:13:06   you gonna have two chairs on stage you [TS]

01:13:08   got a bowl of fruit and some water [TS]

01:13:09   there's gonna be 300 people there in a [TS]

01:13:12   theater atmosphere you're gonna have a [TS]

01:13:14   love Mike you'll have a lot Mike you [TS]

01:13:16   35 minutes plus 20 minutes for questions [TS]

01:13:19   what kind of thing would you would you [TS]

01:13:20   open with my think I would yeah I think [TS]

01:13:27   I would sit down not having not having [TS]

01:13:29   yet read it would you strike the stage [TS]

01:13:32   and reset where the chairs are do you [TS]

01:13:33   think yeah yeah I mean I my opening [TS]

01:13:37   would be then like leaving aside your [TS]

01:13:41   entire Canon I don't think I think [TS]

01:13:44   everybody in the room has is super [TS]

01:13:47   well-versed in the stuff that you make [TS]

01:13:49   and if they want to know more about it [TS]

01:13:51   they can go look it up which I'm sure [TS]

01:13:53   they already have and so a lot of the [TS]

01:13:55   questions that people probably typically [TS]

01:13:57   ask you are just rephrases of their own [TS]

01:14:00   desire to let you know that they know [TS]

01:14:01   what you do yeah [TS]

01:14:03   people just want to get up and ask [TS]

01:14:05   obscure questions that they already know [TS]

01:14:07   the answer to just to watch you perform [TS]

01:14:08   like a like a marionette what I think I [TS]

01:14:13   would rather do now is you know kind of [TS]

01:14:16   get to the bottom of like why you're [TS]

01:14:20   here [TS]

01:14:20   what what what interests you about [TS]

01:14:22   appearing in front of a group of people [TS]

01:14:24   making yourself available this way as [TS]

01:14:28   somebody that is that works in a medium [TS]

01:14:30   where your face is not on the screen [TS]

01:14:32   like what's your relationship to to this [TS]

01:14:36   yourself in the world like what are you [TS]

01:14:38   here what are you hoping to hear from [TS]

01:14:40   people look and and is this anyway he [TS]

01:14:44   wants with that he could say yeah I [TS]

01:14:45   don't want to be here my fucking agent [TS]

01:14:46   made me come here yeah I'm promoting a [TS]

01:14:50   thing and this is part of promoting it [TS]

01:14:52   or he could say you know that I don't [TS]

01:14:55   get a lot of feedback like directly with [TS]

01:14:58   people and I really crave the human [TS]

01:14:59   contact or he could say what an asshole [TS]

01:15:01   question why don't you just get on to [TS]

01:15:03   the Rick and Morty stuff yeah what [TS]

01:15:04   special on sauce yeah whatever deal with [TS]

01:15:09   McDonald's because it would be because I [TS]

01:15:11   would be able to say like look I am I'm [TS]

01:15:13   someone who also is like a human being [TS]

01:15:17   in the world I've been asked to [TS]

01:15:19   interview you and I could never get up [TS]

01:15:22   to speed on everything you've done so [TS]

01:15:25   that so that the choice the university [TS]

01:15:28   has here is either to sit as [TS]

01:15:29   superfan against you or to put a person [TS]

01:15:34   that is that's like a conversational [TS]

01:15:37   person and you and I can converse eight [TS]

01:15:40   but I think a lot of that I would [TS]

01:15:41   probably say to him backstage right and [TS]

01:15:44   and if he said you know that's a good [TS]

01:15:46   point like a little pre-interview kind [TS]

01:15:47   of thing of like what are you excited [TS]

01:15:49   about what do you man about what [TS]

01:15:50   happened at your hotel [TS]

01:15:51   that kind of stuff something you do like [TS]

01:15:52   before a talk show like find out what's [TS]

01:15:54   what's going on and figure out three [TS]

01:15:56   three big beats yeah right are you here [TS]

01:15:58   to pitch something in which case let's [TS]

01:16:00   get let's pitch it or are you here just [TS]

01:16:03   because you are doing the rounds or like [TS]

01:16:07   you seem to be somebody that well [TS]

01:16:10   however much money the University of [TS]

01:16:12   Washington comes up with to bring you [TS]

01:16:13   here it's a drop in the bucket you don't [TS]

01:16:16   care you're not doing it like really I [TS]

01:16:20   mean like you go out and even if they're [TS]

01:16:22   paying you $25,000 or eighty thousand [TS]

01:16:25   dollars to appear like I guess probably [TS]

01:16:27   $80,000 is is meaningful to someone who [TS]

01:16:29   works in Hollywood but I know another [TS]

01:16:32   angle would be what kind of advice do [TS]

01:16:35   you have for young people mr. Harmon [TS]

01:16:42   Harmon many prefer to get into show [TS]

01:16:44   business [TS]