Hello Internet

H.I. #92: Grey Honeypot


00:00:00   hello this is Brady speaking into the

00:00:02   microphone I should ask you what you

00:00:03   have for breakfast I always forget to do

00:00:05   that

00:00:05   three protein Weetabix protein Weetabix

00:00:08   what the hell is that it's like a

00:00:09   special type of Weetabix it's got a bit

00:00:10   of extra protein in it

00:00:11   what's a Weetabix if you don't know what

00:00:13   we do Pixar this conversation is beyond

00:00:15   repair so I've done a thing yesterday oh

00:00:20   yeah you know how sometimes I don't know

00:00:24   if this happens to you or not but

00:00:24   sometimes you do a thing and something

00:00:26   happens and like it just fills you with

00:00:28   so much excitement and enthusiasm that

00:00:31   you want to like tell the whole world

00:00:32   about it but you realize that when you

00:00:35   tell people they're not gonna be as

00:00:36   impressed as you feel about it and now I

00:00:38   don't actually have this experience very

00:00:40   often but I can imagine that this is an

00:00:43   experience that you have quite a lot for

00:00:44   you well let me give you the background

00:00:46   first right okay in my house like at the

00:00:49   top floor is where my office is and I

00:00:51   actually have two offices I have like

00:00:54   one that I'm in now where I have my

00:00:56   computer in my desk and I do my editing

00:00:57   and do the podcast and whatnot and you

00:00:59   have your memorabilia

00:01:00   there's Lego boxes photographs of

00:01:02   astronauts yeah I like it to be like a

00:01:05   nice environment like an old-school

00:01:07   gentleman's office oh I've got a ye

00:01:10   oldie map of South Australia and

00:01:11   Adelaide on the wall and Ian Rush

00:01:13   scoring one of his goals in the 1989 FA

00:01:16   Cup final in which Liverpool beat

00:01:18   Everton three two things like that

00:01:19   you're sitting in a big plush leather

00:01:21   chair right now as you record this I

00:01:23   believe I am in the leather chair yeah

00:01:25   it's got like the nice green office

00:01:28   walls that you would expect from an old

00:01:30   scholarly office anyway we're getting

00:01:32   off subject here and then I have like a

00:01:34   second office that is supposed to be

00:01:37   also like my personal room with a TV and

00:01:39   a sofa where I could be banished to

00:01:41   watch sport but it's kind of more

00:01:43   evolved into like an office as well and

00:01:47   it's where I do a lot of recording and I

00:01:49   have luck so I have some video equipment

00:01:50   in there and some lights and stuff but

00:01:52   it's supposed to be a nice looking room

00:01:54   all the rooms in the house are supposed

00:01:56   to be nice looking because my wife likes

00:01:57   a nice looking house and you do have a

00:01:59   very nice-looking house pretty thank you

00:02:01   alright let's not go there thank you

00:02:02   very much you're very kind okay so the

00:02:06   problem is over the last sort of six

00:02:08   months or so largely because of hello

00:02:12   Internet

00:02:13   there has been an encroachment it's been

00:02:16   spreading like a disease of cardboard

00:02:20   and cardboard boxes as we've had things

00:02:22   like project revolution and operation

00:02:24   Twinkletoes and things like that

00:02:26   there's like packaging in boxes and

00:02:29   material and packing materials coming to

00:02:32   my house more and more often and like

00:02:34   what started in just a corner of the

00:02:36   second office has been gradually

00:02:38   expanding and spreading until it's

00:02:41   almost engulfed my second office with

00:02:43   cardboard boxes and it's just a big wall

00:02:45   of beige yeah and it's even starting to

00:02:47   slowly leak into my nice offer oh yeah

00:02:50   so anyway the chief designer of the

00:02:53   house has been in my ear she's not been

00:02:55   pleased about it huh we've got guests

00:02:57   coming at Christmas and she said enough

00:02:59   Sanath you have to get rid of all this

00:03:01   stuff but I can't get rid of it you have

00:03:03   been slowly accruing a Hello Internet

00:03:06   distribution center in your house I mean

00:03:08   that's what it sounds like

00:03:09   yeah another big problem is the

00:03:11   proliferation of brown papers from

00:03:14   numberphile videos that I don't throw

00:03:16   away so I've got filing cabinets upon

00:03:18   filing cabinets of rolls of brown paper

00:03:20   with mathematical scribbles over it for

00:03:22   the last X number of years of

00:03:24   numberphile I can't be able to throw

00:03:26   them away because I think they're like

00:03:28   historical items and quite collectible

00:03:30   so anyway this week I did something I've

00:03:33   been thinking about for quite a while

00:03:34   and yesterday I went and hired my very

00:03:38   own storage like locker apartment place

00:03:42   off-site oh okay okay

00:03:46   and I cannot tell you how much pleasure

00:03:49   it is giving me at the moment like it

00:03:52   feels so industrial and so like it

00:03:55   really appeals to that caveman part of

00:03:57   my personality because it's like it's

00:03:59   this really cool place with all these

00:04:01   anonymous rows of mysterious still

00:04:04   locked apartments and I've got my own

00:04:06   one with a code number and a lock and I

00:04:09   have to go in these like really cool

00:04:11   goods lifts that are like old-fashioned

00:04:13   lifts where you have to pull all the

00:04:14   doors and the shutters open yourself and

00:04:16   it's this really amazing place and then

00:04:19   I've got my own secret cave I'm packing

00:04:22   up all the brown papers and all the

00:04:23   boxes and memorabilia and stuff into

00:04:25   containers and taking them there and

00:04:27   stacking them up and creating this like

00:04:29   special place and it's just bringing me

00:04:32   so much happiness that I'm just looking

00:04:34   for excuses to go there like oh I think

00:04:36   I might take this box to the storage

00:04:37   locker check it in the back of the car

00:04:40   sign in say hi get out the big trolley

00:04:44   and roll the trolley to my car and put

00:04:46   the boxes on the trolley and then yank

00:04:48   open the goods lift it's also industrial

00:04:50   and I love it and it's like my own

00:04:53   special place and it's like a little

00:04:55   expansion of my domain and my empire it

00:04:59   just makes me so happy I mean it sounds

00:05:01   like you're gonna move in Brady we bring

00:05:03   in chairs and toilets right in a sink

00:05:05   soon in in your storage space I mean is

00:05:07   that was gonna happen that's what it

00:05:08   sounds like it's disappointingly small

00:05:11   and very unlivable but also it's just

00:05:13   creating so much space here in my at

00:05:15   home like these filing cabinets that

00:05:17   have been like just absolutely

00:05:19   overflowing with brown papers for the

00:05:21   last year or two and now completely

00:05:24   empty oh my goodness I can put other

00:05:27   stuff in these now this is what I was

00:05:29   gonna say that was like Brady I don't

00:05:30   know anybody who ever genuinely solves

00:05:33   the problem of I don't have more space

00:05:34   with getting more space this is always a

00:05:38   very temporary solution at best in my

00:05:41   experience so I'm very happy for you I'm

00:05:43   glad that everything's gonna get cleared

00:05:45   out for the holidays but somehow I think

00:05:48   with you which you're already

00:05:48   approaching here I was like wow look at

00:05:50   all this space I have at home what could

00:05:52   I possibly do with it I think that's

00:05:54   that's what's gonna end up here no it

00:05:56   means I can take stuff that's been out

00:05:57   and visible there shouldn't be and put

00:06:00   it into the storage space they had

00:06:01   previously been filled up with all the

00:06:03   papers and things like that so I think

00:06:05   it's gonna create less clutter I mean

00:06:08   you sound exactly like my wife and

00:06:09   actually just before the show I was

00:06:11   talking to the Duke from Venezuela and I

00:06:15   was telling him about my storage locker

00:06:16   and I said I'm gonna talk about and

00:06:18   hello Internet until grey about it and

00:06:20   somehow in the back of my head I thought

00:06:22   maybe you would like share and you would

00:06:24   tell me some story about some storage

00:06:26   thing that you've done off-site but he

00:06:28   just said no grey is gonna slay you for

00:06:30   that that's so anti gray and I'm so sure

00:06:33   I think maybe you think this is kind of

00:06:35   cool but the Jake was right okay well

00:06:38   there's two different things here I

00:06:39   completely agree with you

00:06:41   that storage lockers are kind of cool

00:06:44   yeah like if I was gonna have to run a

00:06:45   business that doesn't seem like a bad

00:06:47   one and because it's like don't have to

00:06:48   do very much you're just renting space

00:06:50   it's it's relatively automated there's

00:06:53   also a antle's understand the

00:06:55   appreciation of those places because

00:06:56   there's something logistic e about them

00:06:58   it's it's like there's movement of

00:07:00   objects like you say you have like the

00:07:02   trolleys it's very pleasing to pack

00:07:05   stuff like I get I get all of that yeah

00:07:07   but I have never in my life had a

00:07:09   storage unit like that in addition to

00:07:13   the place that I lived right or so even

00:07:16   when my wife and I were living in a

00:07:19   single studio flat or before that when

00:07:22   my wife and I were just sharing a

00:07:24   bedroom in a shared flat with a bunch of

00:07:26   other people like we didn't ever have a

00:07:27   storage space the only time I ever used

00:07:31   a storage space was in college which was

00:07:34   I think just for the first summer where

00:07:37   it was simply easier to just pack up my

00:07:39   belongings into a big storage container

00:07:41   for the summer and then go home and then

00:07:44   return and get it all out of there but I

00:07:45   can't imagine using it as a permanent

00:07:48   little house annex or logistics

00:07:51   distribution center in the way that you

00:07:53   were using it I hope it works for you

00:07:55   Brady I hope that you clear up all the

00:07:57   space but I do think that the problem is

00:07:58   like whenever you do have you clear up

00:08:00   space like this space invites more

00:08:02   things look I get you I get this hole

00:08:04   you know

00:08:05   nature abhors a vacuum and I'm just

00:08:07   gonna fill the empty space up with more

00:08:08   crap and I'm also not saying that I

00:08:10   couldn't be more ruthless with my

00:08:12   throwing away of stuff I'll acknowledge

00:08:14   those two problems but I genuinely think

00:08:18   I have created a situation that is not

00:08:21   my fault that has resulted in me having

00:08:24   very large things that don't really

00:08:27   belong in a house like all these huge

00:08:29   bits of cardboard you need to package up

00:08:31   vinyl records and huge rolls of bubble

00:08:34   wrap and you know all this stuff and

00:08:37   there's more stuff coming and like it's

00:08:38   kind of it's not my fault but it's not

00:08:41   good looking and we you know we we like

00:08:44   running a tight ship in the house I want

00:08:45   it to look nice and there aren't many

00:08:47   storage solutions that you can have in a

00:08:49   nice-looking house that can hold all

00:08:51   this stuff so I think I've had no choice

00:08:53   but to go off-site I do

00:08:54   because in a normal house the solution

00:08:57   to this would be the basement right like

00:08:59   you put everything downstairs in the

00:09:00   basement but the way your house is laid

00:09:02   out is that the basement is actually a

00:09:04   very nice other room like it's it's a

00:09:06   kitchen eating area so your house

00:09:09   doesn't have the normal like oh right

00:09:13   there's this underground cellar where we

00:09:14   can we can put all the things so you

00:09:16   simply don't have that option and yes I

00:09:18   am actually giving you much less of a

00:09:20   hard time than that I can imagine people

00:09:22   might think I would give you over this

00:09:24   because I do understand that once you

00:09:27   take on the burden of sending out shoes

00:09:30   of different sizes to people and and I

00:09:33   do agree with you that those papers that

00:09:35   you keep from number filing those are

00:09:37   quite legitimate to keep I do think that

00:09:39   they are unique little pieces of art

00:09:42   like I will never fault you for keeping

00:09:44   those so you are in a bit of a different

00:09:47   situation so I will give you a little

00:09:48   bit of a longer lease than I normally

00:09:50   would on this kind of thing because it

00:09:52   is the nature of your work Brady that

00:09:54   you are going to be attracting this kind

00:09:56   of stuff into your house but I also

00:09:58   think it's the nature of a Brady that he

00:10:00   really likes keeping these things to I

00:10:03   want to know how your objectivity video

00:10:06   is doing from last time this is my my

00:10:08   scandalous naughty yes video with the

00:10:12   old-fashioned nudie pics the

00:10:15   descriptions like that I really do want

00:10:17   to file because this is sometimes

00:10:19   sometimes when you record a podcast you

00:10:20   know you talk about things and something

00:10:22   gets stuck in your brain like I could

00:10:24   not let that segment go last time like

00:10:26   after we recorded it after added it I

00:10:28   just kept thinking about it over and

00:10:30   over again like this endless messy

00:10:32   problem that YouTube has and the D

00:10:35   monetization everything for some reason

00:10:36   this one in particular really stuck with

00:10:39   me and I couldn't get out of my head so

00:10:40   I want to know what's the update has it

00:10:42   been monetized has your whole channel

00:10:44   been taken down I'll tell you what

00:10:46   happened and it will involve a minor

00:10:47   confession okay but I won't go into all

00:10:50   the details people who've listened to

00:10:51   the last episode will know what this

00:10:52   video was about but involve these

00:10:54   pictures that had been automatically

00:10:56   flagged as unsuitable I pressed the

00:10:59   button for a so-called manual review and

00:11:02   it was very quickly rejected a second

00:11:05   time and I was told I'd failed to the

00:11:07   manual review process

00:11:08   and I wrote an email I'm in the lucky

00:11:11   position to have like you know a partner

00:11:13   manager and people at YouTube that I can

00:11:14   write to who are humans so I wrote an

00:11:17   email sort of saying this is not good

00:11:20   and what happened was actually I I

00:11:23   thought it had sent but I'd actually

00:11:25   hadn't sent it they for two or three

00:11:27   days I'd heard nothing back and I was

00:11:29   like aha they've gone to ground the cows

00:11:31   today they're too scared to deal with me

00:11:34   and you know I'd said we're not happy

00:11:36   and if you want to know what I think

00:11:37   about it I sent them the link to the

00:11:39   hello Internet section so this is what

00:11:40   we think about it and I was polite

00:11:42   uh-huh I was polite but I was like you

00:11:45   know I'd made my case strongly and they

00:11:47   hadn't replied so I was like cowards

00:11:51   ahead and sent so I win so it wasn't in

00:11:54   my sent items and then I found it in my

00:11:56   drafts so I sent it there with your tail

00:12:00   between your legs yeah well luckily I

00:12:03   hadn't told anyone I thought that would

00:12:04   get would say I was like I'd gotten away

00:12:06   with it no so I rants from you know

00:12:10   Twitter rant and that emo was replied to

00:12:13   quite quickly and I was told like in

00:12:16   less than 24 hours I was told this is a

00:12:19   mistake and we've reinstated it and it

00:12:22   is now in the on the normal monetization

00:12:24   status so that video is now normal it's

00:12:28   gone from the yellow tick of naughtiness

00:12:30   to the green tick of happiness whatever

00:12:33   you want to call it so it was reinstated

00:12:35   and like okay hey I'm lucky I have

00:12:37   someone who I can appeal to you I was a

00:12:39   human and B the fact I even had to do

00:12:43   that still says to me the system is

00:12:45   broken so while I'm grateful for a

00:12:47   reasonably quick reply I'm still upset

00:12:49   at the way the systems works and I think

00:12:51   it's broken

00:12:52   and I'm still unhappy with the whole

00:12:53   experience yeah like a new no-win

00:12:57   situation and again the golden 24 hours

00:12:59   when a video gets the most views I mean

00:13:01   this isn't like a massively watched

00:13:03   video but if it was if it was a CGP grey

00:13:05   video that 24 hours where I was waiting

00:13:08   for them to say Mia culpa we've

00:13:10   reinstated it you'd be gone that's when

00:13:12   all your views have happened anyway oh

00:13:13   yeah that's the main value of almost all

00:13:16   the videos and I have not recently but I

00:13:19   have in the past had that happen

00:13:20   where

00:13:20   a video isn't monetized when it goes up

00:13:23   and you know it's like okay well looks

00:13:25   like clock is ticking YouTube I figure

00:13:28   now your video is another data point on

00:13:31   the gigantic pile of machine learning

00:13:34   for whatever algorithms they're using to

00:13:36   try to determine what is or is not

00:13:38   appropriate for for future videos but I

00:13:41   feel like this should be a like a super

00:13:44   data point for the algorithms like this

00:13:46   one you should never miss categorize

00:13:48   like no matter what crazy algorithms you

00:13:50   come up with like this one should always

00:13:52   be in the clear as like a a very obvious

00:13:56   reference point for the algorithms to

00:13:58   chew on but what's the algorithm

00:13:59   learning that that if a while' is very

00:14:02   small and black and white it's okay well

00:14:04   you know with all this stuff I think the

00:14:07   idea that's impossible to convey is that

00:14:08   you can't describe to people what the

00:14:10   algorithm is learning you can just in

00:14:13   the database assign an extremely

00:14:15   negative score for mischaracterizing

00:14:18   this video right and then you're just

00:14:19   like okay well you build up a data set

00:14:22   and you're just training the algorithms

00:14:24   against it and I think this is like a

00:14:27   fundamental frustration of the modern

00:14:29   world is that it is very difficult

00:14:31   people want Y answers to these questions

00:14:34   like why did this algorithm do this like

00:14:36   why when I go on Facebook does it show

00:14:38   me that and I just am not convinced that

00:14:41   there are Y answers to this question

00:14:43   like everything I know about machine

00:14:44   learning just says like there is no y

00:14:47   answer all you have is a data set and

00:14:49   then you have an algorithm that really

00:14:52   nobody understands and you know it's

00:14:54   like oh you can point over here to some

00:14:56   linear algebra but it doesn't change the

00:14:58   fact that ultimately it's like a bunch

00:14:59   of calculations that nobody understands

00:15:01   so I agree with you that like the system

00:15:04   is in in quotes broken but I just don't

00:15:07   think that there's ever going to be like

00:15:09   a winning solution to YouTube for this

00:15:11   one so yeah this is just the fun future

00:15:13   of things it's got to be a smiled

00:15:16   algorithm there doesn't it because if I

00:15:18   took a a nudie pic of my mate bill

00:15:20   mm-hmm and like put a sepia tone over

00:15:23   mm-hmm and that loaded it to youtube

00:15:25   they would be right to block it because

00:15:28   there's no historical or scientific

00:15:29   significance to her and it's just me

00:15:31   being a mischief-maker with nudity and

00:15:34   then

00:15:34   what they should love that so smart

00:15:37   algorithm because it's got it have to

00:15:38   take into context the whole video around

00:15:40   it and what was being said and done and

00:15:42   you know again I think that even the

00:15:43   idea of like a smart algorithm is like a

00:15:45   strange kind of meaningless idea that we

00:15:47   try to apply to things if you dig into

00:15:49   machine learning like there's a thing

00:15:50   called neural networks and I'm often

00:15:52   really shocked by how simple a neural

00:15:56   network can be before it starts

00:15:58   correctly say classifying images like

00:16:01   you know what is this image or what is

00:16:03   that image it's weird how they can be

00:16:06   quite simple and still work but it's

00:16:09   again like you look at it and you're

00:16:10   like I don't really know what it's doing

00:16:12   I can follow each of these individual

00:16:14   calculations that it does but how at the

00:16:18   end it lights up the light that says you

00:16:20   know this is a horse right or this is a

00:16:23   mountain like you just can't really know

00:16:24   how it does that stuff and what you

00:16:26   highlighted there is exactly the problem

00:16:28   that whatever it's doing it's really

00:16:31   only just learning from the database

00:16:33   that it has seen and so you will get

00:16:35   really weird results when you show it

00:16:37   stuff that is just totally unfamiliar

00:16:39   with there's like a sort of classic

00:16:42   example of this but if you if you train

00:16:43   like a neural network to recognize

00:16:45   handwritten numbers you can train it it

00:16:47   will recognize handwritten numbers with

00:16:49   like 90% 95% accuracy but if you show it

00:16:52   an image of just static

00:16:54   it's surprising amount of times it'll go

00:16:56   like oh that's the number 8 or that's

00:16:58   the number 3 like it's like what on

00:16:59   earth is it doing that it can both

00:17:02   correctly categorize numbers but it

00:17:04   doesn't have any concept that like a

00:17:06   obviously meaningless image is not the

00:17:08   number 3 it's a very very weird world

00:17:11   when you dig into it grey I saw that you

00:17:15   have been granted 280 characters on

00:17:19   Twitter yes yes I have and a few days

00:17:22   later I was also allowed into this

00:17:24   exclusive club though what's been your

00:17:28   reflection on the the new Twitter the

00:17:30   new expanded 2x double size twice as

00:17:36   good Twitter experience are you enjoying

00:17:38   the power double the size half is good I

00:17:40   totally agree for anybody who follows me

00:17:43   on Twitter I'm very sorry but I did go

00:17:45   anyone who still follows you

00:17:49   I'd be really curious to see like

00:17:51   someone must be able to do this but like

00:17:53   I have a suspicion that my Twitter usage

00:17:56   is very spiky my perception of myself is

00:18:00   that I go for long periods of time where

00:18:01   I don't tweet very much at all and then

00:18:02   it's like an afternoon where I tweet a

00:18:04   whole lot and when I discovered that I

00:18:06   had 280 characters that was an afternoon

00:18:09   of a lot of tweeting you went on a

00:18:10   Twitter binge and I was really 100%

00:18:12   abusing my power and also upset at the

00:18:16   number of people that seemed to be

00:18:17   getting the increased tweets right after

00:18:19   me that's like ah no like I need this to

00:18:21   be exclusive like if everybody has it

00:18:23   it's no good so I did have a day where I

00:18:25   was going a little bit nuts and

00:18:26   intentionally nuts in the most annoying

00:18:28   way possible but since that has now calm

00:18:31   down and I've been on Twitter a bunch

00:18:33   I will rien ffice eyes my opinion that I

00:18:37   think it is worse even more strongly now

00:18:41   than before because the thing that I

00:18:44   have found really interesting from a

00:18:46   subjective experience is when I go to

00:18:50   tweet 280 characters is almost always

00:18:54   longer than whatever thought is in my

00:18:56   head and I have noticed that I

00:18:58   essentially never really need to amend

00:19:02   the tweets that I'm sending out there

00:19:04   into the world mm-hmm

00:19:05   and it's like this 100% has the effect

00:19:09   of making my tweets sloppier like and

00:19:12   less well thought out like without a

00:19:14   doubt because you're not going through a

00:19:16   draft price yes without a doubt this is

00:19:18   what does it whereas before I would

00:19:20   almost always blow past the 140 limit

00:19:22   and then have to think for a second Oh

00:19:24   what did I actually want to say let me

00:19:27   say it in a different way so I like I

00:19:29   feel much much more strongly about it

00:19:32   that even if people aren't doing what I

00:19:36   was doing on the first day and being

00:19:37   intentionally annoying by having

00:19:39   unnecessarily long tweets I think even

00:19:41   tweets 50% longer are worse and my

00:19:44   experience of composing tweets is worse

00:19:47   and I also find that the lengths it

00:19:51   really changes the experience of reading

00:19:53   Twitter there's something about these

00:19:55   tweets that are like just a little too

00:19:58   long yes Kim it's gone

00:20:00   the wall of texture zone you know what

00:20:02   it really has it really has that's

00:20:04   interesting it's like that email that

00:20:06   you won't read look you know you open a

00:20:08   day by then if it's to you three

00:20:09   sentences your reader and if it's ten

00:20:11   you won't this is like scaled-down what

00:20:14   happens on Twitter

00:20:15   I'll read the short waits and I'll skip

00:20:17   the long tweets though I'm not reading

00:20:18   that and there's more and more that I'm

00:20:20   not right here I've been wondering I'm

00:20:22   most of the time I'm using Twitter

00:20:24   through a Twitter client am either using

00:20:26   Twitter if ik or tweet bot or two that I

00:20:28   really like and those applications often

00:20:31   have custom filters that regular Twitter

00:20:33   does not I'm hoping that one of them

00:20:36   will actually implement a like hide all

00:20:39   tweets above this length filter hmm

00:20:42   let's be honest here if you write out a

00:20:45   280 word tweet I'm not reading it so why

00:20:47   don't we just hide it and then I can

00:20:49   have my old Twitter back like I would

00:20:50   love to be able to have that feature

00:20:53   what's like I'll give people a little

00:20:54   leeway but anything above like 160 I'm

00:20:58   just going to filter out on on Mayan

00:21:00   like I just don't even want to see it

00:21:01   because this is one of those things

00:21:03   where it's so weird it's like is reading

00:21:05   three sentences an incredible burden

00:21:07   that reading one or two is not not

00:21:09   really but it doesn't change the fact

00:21:12   that I just don't and it does matter

00:21:15   when you're looking at the volume of

00:21:16   yeah tweets that Twitter has like a I it

00:21:19   out I feel like I try to not follow a

00:21:21   whole lot of people and I'm pretty

00:21:22   aggressive now with filters in a way

00:21:24   that I didn't used to be before but even

00:21:27   still I feel like Twitter is a pretty

00:21:28   active thing and it does matter a whole

00:21:30   lot for things to be shorter than other

00:21:33   mediums and especially because again

00:21:35   it's the it's like the live aspect of it

00:21:37   like Twitter is what's happening right

00:21:38   now like what people are saying so

00:21:41   you're saying you agree with the reading

00:21:43   experience but have you found the same

00:21:45   thing with the composing experience like

00:21:47   are you aware of it different when you

00:21:48   write tweets I have started writing a

00:21:50   few longer ones occasionally but

00:21:53   generally I've been keeping my tweets

00:21:55   quite short still a funny thing happened

00:21:58   actually when I was still on 140 mm-hmm

00:22:00   I wanted to write this funny tweet which

00:22:02   the joke was gonna be it's not very

00:22:04   original joke but I thought it was at

00:22:05   the time I was writing something along

00:22:07   the lines of I can't wait to have 280

00:22:09   characters because then I can write

00:22:11   tweets to say important things like and

00:22:13   it was going to be like my tweet

00:22:14   got cut off before I got to say the

00:22:15   important bring it right that was gonna

00:22:17   be the joke that I couldn't quite fit in

00:22:18   the joke I was trying to form you like

00:22:21   that tweak to 140 characters and I

00:22:23   couldn't get to 140 right I've become so

00:22:26   used to writing concise things I was

00:22:28   having to pad out the tweet to make my

00:22:30   joke get to 140 characters so that it

00:22:32   would run out of carriers so I think

00:22:34   I've been quite well trained to keep it

00:22:37   short and now that I've moved to 80 and

00:22:39   most of the time my tweets have been

00:22:40   staying short because of that training

00:22:43   I guess my the fear is and what will

00:22:44   happen is that training will wear off

00:22:47   I'll get sloppy I'll write longer worst

00:22:49   tweets and I'll become like everyone

00:22:51   else but you're like a dog with the

00:22:52   electric fence and they learn where the

00:22:54   boundary is and they don't go near the

00:22:56   boundary and now the boundary has been

00:22:57   removed eventually you're gonna start

00:22:59   pushing that edge like a little bit

00:23:01   further a little bit further yeah and

00:23:02   you don't have that that feedback of

00:23:04   like an angry negative read three on the

00:23:06   bottom they're telling you that your

00:23:07   tweets too long

00:23:08   I mean clearly Twitter did this because

00:23:10   they want to get more users to the

00:23:12   platform and obviously that experience

00:23:14   that you described of writing a tweet

00:23:16   and then being in the red and going damn

00:23:19   it I've got to rewrite it now and write

00:23:20   another draft to get it down totally

00:23:22   frustrating for new users without a

00:23:23   doubt yeah exactly so while you're sort

00:23:25   of discipline brain saw this as a

00:23:27   blessing and a chance to refine your

00:23:28   thoughts other people were saying to

00:23:30   hell with this I'm not using Twitter and

00:23:31   so Twitter thinks it's gonna help them

00:23:34   but I don't think it is yeah well this

00:23:36   is always a conflict particularly in the

00:23:38   software world of how easy is a thing

00:23:41   for new users versus what is the

00:23:44   experience for longtime users and/or

00:23:48   professional users and you know like we

00:23:51   were complaining last time I really

00:23:52   think that Twitter's selling feature is

00:23:54   the same thing that makes it kind of a

00:23:57   pain in the butt for new users to get on

00:24:00   board and trying to explain why being

00:24:03   limited in what you can post is a good

00:24:05   thing is not a thing that someone's

00:24:08   signing up to a social media account

00:24:10   wants to hear that's not what they want

00:24:12   I bet it will on board more people and

00:24:15   you know maybe it'll make Twitter more

00:24:17   popular and maybe it'll prove for the

00:24:19   company to be a great decision but I

00:24:21   think in the process of doing that it's

00:24:23   losing what I like about Twitter

00:24:25   and the very reason why Twitter is for

00:24:28   me the only social network that I use in

00:24:32   any serious amount so I think it's a

00:24:35   shame I have this great power and I

00:24:38   don't want it hello Internet

00:24:41   you know all things come to an end a

00:24:45   beautiful sunset it has an end your time

00:24:49   with loved ones it has an end your whole

00:24:52   life has an end probably nothing lasts

00:24:57   forever there are many ways that we try

00:24:59   to avoid this and one of which is by

00:25:01   digitizing everything digital data we

00:25:05   tell ourselves it will last forever but

00:25:08   guess what your files sitting on that

00:25:12   hard drive on your computer their time

00:25:14   in this world comes to an end that hard

00:25:17   drive will eventually fail a gamma-ray

00:25:20   born in the heart of a star flying

00:25:23   across the universe will hit your hard

00:25:26   drive at just the right angle and

00:25:28   destroy those files there's nothing you

00:25:31   can do about it except of course to

00:25:35   install Backblaze Backblaze is the

00:25:38   unlimited cloud backup for Macs and PCs

00:25:41   for just $5 a month for that all of the

00:25:45   documents music photos videos drawings

00:25:49   projects everything in your digital life

00:25:52   you're storing on your computer won't

00:25:54   just live in one place it will be safe

00:25:57   and preserved on back Blaze's servers so

00:26:00   that when the inevitable happens you

00:26:02   don't just have to gaze off into the

00:26:05   distance and mourn the loss of your data

00:26:07   no you can bring it back from the cloud

00:26:11   but listen this only works if you sign

00:26:14   up for Backblaze before that happens

00:26:17   and because Backblaze keeps buying ads

00:26:19   on the show I know that there are

00:26:20   constantly new listeners who are finally

00:26:23   hearing the good word about Backblaze

00:26:25   and installing it on their computers

00:26:28   perhaps today that's you listening to me

00:26:32   right now what you're going to do is if

00:26:35   you don't have Backblaze on your

00:26:36   computer you're going to go to Backblaze

00:26:39   calm

00:26:39   /hello internet and sign up today to get

00:26:44   your digital data protected to grant it

00:26:48   the immortality that it deserves back

00:26:51   please calm /hello internet go there

00:26:55   today touching the outside of the plane

00:26:58   before you get on as a superstition but

00:27:01   it turns out both you and I had you'd

00:27:04   kind of kick the habit but I still do i

00:27:05   force myself out of it yeah I didn't

00:27:08   want to get that way I was mildly

00:27:09   surprised by how many other people do it

00:27:11   it wasn't like super common it didn't

00:27:14   feel like every person in their dog was

00:27:16   saying yeah yeah of course everyone does

00:27:17   that but a lot of people said I do it -

00:27:20   mm-hmm

00:27:20   which was interesting it's always

00:27:22   interesting to see this I saw a few

00:27:23   examples of famous people who were doing

00:27:25   they're touching the outside of the

00:27:26   plane thing it's just interesting to see

00:27:27   what people are able to dig up when you

00:27:29   mention topics like this I have mildly

00:27:31   enjoyed getting photographs from people

00:27:33   doing it as they get on the plane and

00:27:34   Tim's saying Here I am doing it I

00:27:36   wouldn't want it to become too much of a

00:27:38   thing but I don't mind at the moment I

00:27:40   was also getting photos from people who

00:27:42   were showing me them scoping out the

00:27:45   passengers who were going to get on the

00:27:46   plane doing a little profiling for

00:27:48   anybody who looks like they might have

00:27:49   some coins in their hand so I enjoyed

00:27:52   that as well it did get me wondering

00:27:54   about and someone wrote something that

00:27:56   helped me understand it about where this

00:27:58   superstition could possibly come from

00:28:00   why would it start and someone wrote

00:28:03   something and I can't remember who wrote

00:28:04   it or where or anything like that but

00:28:06   I'll encapsulate it and they were

00:28:08   basically saying they've always touched

00:28:10   the outside of the plane because

00:28:12   touching the outside of a plane felt

00:28:14   like a special treat to them because

00:28:16   they're interested in like the material

00:28:17   science aspect on what the plane was

00:28:19   made of in the metal and also thinking

00:28:21   about the extreme environment that was

00:28:23   going to be blasting past that part of

00:28:26   the plane you know in just half an

00:28:27   hour's time

00:28:28   so getting to touch it felt like a

00:28:30   special treat and I think maybe that's

00:28:32   where it comes from from me too it was

00:28:34   like something you would never normally

00:28:35   get to touch so when I was first started

00:28:38   flying I would touch the outside of a

00:28:39   plane because gosh when am I going to

00:28:41   get another chance to do this and then

00:28:43   once you start doing it and you don't

00:28:45   die in a plane crash you think well

00:28:47   maybe I should do it again and it sort

00:28:48   of it then becomes the tradition and the

00:28:50   superstition but the reason you first

00:28:52   start doing it is

00:28:53   because it's just a chance to touch

00:28:54   something that in normal life you would

00:28:57   never get to touch but it's kind of cool

00:28:59   and fascinating yeah I think that sounds

00:29:01   right that sounds like how it would

00:29:02   start and then you do it a couple of

00:29:03   times and then as brains go this is a

00:29:05   like you start reinforcing a pattern and

00:29:07   a habit that you don't intend to there

00:29:10   is something that's like it's not quite

00:29:11   like it but it's a bit like passing

00:29:13   through an airlock that little moment

00:29:14   when you're stepping on to the plane and

00:29:16   you know you have the the jetway has

00:29:19   come out and you they have like the

00:29:20   wrapping that's like attached to the the

00:29:22   airplane itself it's like an interesting

00:29:24   transition moment in life going from one

00:29:26   thing to another I can see why that

00:29:28   would start to happen and the other

00:29:31   thing is you know just you tap it and

00:29:33   it's like whoo it feels very solid and

00:29:36   then you have to remind yourself not to

00:29:37   think about how thick that his airplane

00:29:40   walls actually are because they're

00:29:41   terrifyingly thin if you ever actually

00:29:44   see the cross-sections of airplanes it's

00:29:46   like it's not a whole lot of material

00:29:47   between you and the outside world on

00:29:49   those airplanes when you're actually

00:29:51   tapping those walls so don't snap them

00:29:52   too hard people nice and gentle with the

00:29:54   outside of the plane so another thing

00:29:57   that you discussed in the last episode

00:29:59   when were on this topic was that you

00:30:01   don't like sitting in seats where you

00:30:04   have a good clear view of the engine

00:30:06   because you think about all the things

00:30:08   that could go wrong and sort of the

00:30:10   fragility of the the situation you know

00:30:13   that's not the kind of thinking I well

00:30:14   my my previous sentence there's no

00:30:16   indication that I tend to think towards

00:30:17   about the fragility of all the objects

00:30:19   and the complicatedness of all the

00:30:20   interactive pieces and you know one

00:30:22   knows how to build an airplane but

00:30:23   somehow all these people together you

00:30:24   see the little piece that makes it work

00:30:26   yeah I don't think about that well since

00:30:27   we recorded that I've been on a holiday

00:30:30   and I went to my favorite place I went

00:30:32   to the Maldives and it took three

00:30:34   flights to get to the island and three

00:30:36   flights back and I touched the outside

00:30:37   of the plane each time but interestingly

00:30:39   the final flight to get there is on a

00:30:43   seaplane you learned at Marley Airport

00:30:46   in the Maldives at the main airport and

00:30:48   they then put you onto a little seaplane

00:30:50   for a half hour flight to your Island

00:30:52   and pretty much every seat on these

00:30:54   little sea planes you get a really good

00:30:56   view of the engine so I was put in my

00:30:59   seat

00:30:59   and I was right next to the engine and I

00:31:01   was looking at all the bits and pieces

00:31:02   and these sea planes are a bit they're a

00:31:04   bit rough and ready and you can

00:31:05   seriously rust and Naoki

00:31:07   everywhere and stuff and you're in the

00:31:09   water and I was thinking how great

00:31:10   wouldn't like this and then just before

00:31:12   we took off one of the crew of the plane

00:31:15   on these sea planes has to walk around

00:31:17   on I think it's called like the pontoon

00:31:19   like the footbed that floats in the

00:31:21   water that the plane lands on that makes

00:31:24   it like a boat and he has to walk out

00:31:26   onto that pontoon and like undo the

00:31:28   ropes that are roping you to the dock so

00:31:31   the plane can then push away and take

00:31:33   off on the sea he has to hand spin up

00:31:35   the propeller yes so anyway it was so

00:31:37   interesting because what happened was he

00:31:39   was he was undoing the ropes and he did

00:31:41   that and he he threw the ropes aside and

00:31:43   he was about to get back onto the plane

00:31:44   and shut the door and just before he did

00:31:47   I was watching all this there was this

00:31:49   little pipe or outlet I'm not sure what

00:31:52   it was it quite possibly was a sensor of

00:31:55   some kind or it was some kind of minor

00:31:57   exhaust port or something I don't know

00:31:59   what it was but it was a little pipe

00:32:00   that I was looking at under the engine

00:32:02   near the strut and just before he got in

00:32:04   the plane he pulled a piece of tissue

00:32:06   out of his pocket and stuffed it into

00:32:09   this hole and prodded it in with his

00:32:11   finger two blocks I think with a piece

00:32:13   of tissue with a piece of dirty tissue

00:32:15   paper he put it in the hole plug to the

00:32:17   hole with tissue paper then got in the

00:32:19   plane and we took off and flew into the

00:32:21   sky I'm like what the hell it's like The

00:32:27   Rocketeer where he's singing a stick of

00:32:29   gum and he's just putting it over a hole

00:32:30   in the fuel sack

00:32:32   no no did you ask what it was or I

00:32:36   didn't ask I took a photo of the

00:32:39   component so we will put in the

00:32:41   shownotes a photograph and I will show

00:32:44   people what this component is and

00:32:45   whoever is an expert on see planes and

00:32:47   aviation can tell us what this thing is

00:32:50   and why he may have been stuffing a

00:32:53   piece of tissue into it mere moments

00:32:56   before takeoff but I thought this would

00:32:58   freak ray it was like two feet from my

00:33:00   face I was watching this happen

00:33:02   I didn't say a word though I just said

00:33:04   okay he knows what he's doing I just

00:33:06   want to get him a holiday I do love

00:33:09   seeing plain stone flying over the

00:33:11   Modena seaplanes top stuff

00:33:14   I'm sure the maldis are great I bet you

00:33:16   feel like Indiana Jones when you're

00:33:17   taking off in a seaplane there's a big

00:33:19   stake in the plane

00:33:20   I can see the appeal of all of that you

00:33:22   know I'm glad you go to the Maldives I'm

00:33:25   very glad that you like it but even if

00:33:27   it was three regular airplanes I feel

00:33:29   like there's nowhere in the world I'm

00:33:31   gonna go if I have to take three flights

00:33:33   to get there totally worth it totally

00:33:36   worth it even for you great you say that

00:33:38   but I feel like one transfer one

00:33:41   transfer or I'm not going you can get to

00:33:44   mildly direct if you want you just don't

00:33:45   get to fly in as nice planes if you do

00:33:48   it direct you're better off doing a

00:33:50   stopover so you can get the nicer planes

00:33:52   and the NASA flight oh so you're doing a

00:33:54   calculation between a direct flight

00:33:55   that's uncomfortable and three flights

00:33:58   that are more comfortable and one that's

00:33:59   kept in the air by it tissue in a plank

00:34:02   you have to get the C plane no matter

00:34:04   what there's no choice on that yeah

00:34:07   there's a topic I've had in the notes

00:34:10   for us to talk about for a while and I'm

00:34:12   not gonna do it now but this does touch

00:34:14   upon it a little bit so I may go off a

00:34:17   bit if you don't rein me in because

00:34:19   we're gonna talk about space and I don't

00:34:20   want to upset space people but also

00:34:22   gonna talk about Halloween okay because

00:34:23   you like Halloween they do everyone like

00:34:26   Halloween I'm alright with them but

00:34:28   anyway this Halloween just gone the

00:34:31   astronauts on the International Space

00:34:33   Station decided to get into the

00:34:35   Halloween spirit hmm and if you click on

00:34:38   the link in the notes there you can see

00:34:39   how they did this and I want to see what

00:34:41   you think about it I'm thinking they

00:34:42   don't have a lot of materials up there

00:34:43   on the International Space Station to

00:34:46   make costumes out of okay I've got a

00:34:48   picture here from the International

00:34:50   Space Station yeah here's the thing

00:34:52   under normal circumstances I would say

00:34:56   these costumes are pretty weak yeah

00:34:57   they're basically just t-shirts that

00:34:59   they're wearing yeah there's only two

00:35:01   guys who are even really costumed in any

00:35:05   sense there's a Wolverine and there's a

00:35:08   spider-man spider-man good choice for

00:35:10   the International Space Station I think

00:35:12   but yeah so under normal circumstances I

00:35:14   would say weak but the fact that it's

00:35:16   the space station I'm still gonna take

00:35:18   it I understand the constraints that

00:35:19   they're working on you disapprove Brady

00:35:22   I feel like here you wanted to rain on

00:35:23   this parade in no way is it acceptable

00:35:27   to me that astronauts in space in space

00:35:33   flying in space astronauts the coolest

00:35:37   people in the world doing the coolest

00:35:40   thing in the world should be dressing up

00:35:42   in monkey ears minion t-shirts and

00:35:46   spider-man suits in a desperate

00:35:49   desperate hope of getting my picture

00:35:52   shared on Twitter or getting a bit of

00:35:54   viral traction or to reach out to the

00:35:57   youth of today what a desperate rubbing

00:36:03   cheap poor thing that astronauts in

00:36:07   space have to dress up as spider-man to

00:36:10   get publicity is it not enough that

00:36:12   they're circling the Earth at thousands

00:36:15   of miles per hour in like weightlessness

00:36:17   and they've gone up in rockets do they

00:36:20   really have to dress up as a minion okay

00:36:23   this is like embarrassing

00:36:26   it's just cheapening what it is to be an

00:36:28   astronaut and space travel this is like

00:36:31   Oh can't believe it

00:36:34   I'd see what's going on here you feel

00:36:36   like this is diminishing the office of

00:36:38   the astronauts II like that it is this

00:36:41   is the legacy of John Glenn and Neil

00:36:44   Armstrong and all these great people

00:36:47   that have done amazing things and now

00:36:50   we're dressing up a Spider Man ah I

00:36:52   pretend superhero face are real

00:36:56   superheroes well I mean I think of the

00:36:59   word superhero means something you can't

00:37:01   say that they're real superheroes like

00:37:03   they're real astronauts

00:37:04   but if the word superhero means

00:37:07   something astronauts are not superheroes

00:37:09   that doesn't make any sense I mean the

00:37:11   reason this has been on my to-do list

00:37:14   for a while as when the British

00:37:16   astronaut Tim Peake and don't get me

00:37:18   wrong I like Tim Peake right and this is

00:37:21   not Tim Peake Sparkman

00:37:22   I think I've even met the guy okay he's

00:37:24   a British astronaut and he was in space

00:37:26   quite recently

00:37:27   you know and I've met him and I like him

00:37:30   and he agreed to do an interview for me

00:37:32   so I think he's ace so this is not this

00:37:34   is not me getting stuck into Tim Peake

00:37:36   Tim Peake just does what he has to do

00:37:37   but when he was in space for his six

00:37:40   months obviously the British government

00:37:42   the British in particular at but the

00:37:43   European Space Agency in general

00:37:45   obviously wanted to milk every last bit

00:37:47   of public

00:37:47   the out of the Rose it was their guy up

00:37:49   there and some of the things they made

00:37:51   him do like we're a pretend tux so that

00:37:54   he could introduce a section at the

00:37:55   BAFTA Awards or do some little gimmick

00:37:58   to do a rugby game and like basically

00:38:01   what they do with these astronauts now

00:38:02   as they say okay for the six months

00:38:05   you're in space what things are

00:38:07   happening like what events are happening

00:38:09   like Halloween or things like that that

00:38:11   we can somehow leverage to try and get

00:38:14   some publicity and get people to tweet

00:38:15   about us and use photos how sad is it

00:38:18   that they've gotten to the point where

00:38:20   they like just desperately trying to

00:38:24   find ways to get into my Twitter stream

00:38:25   ah you're right you summed it up best it

00:38:30   diminishes the office I don't know I was

00:38:32   no no I know I know you're putting your

00:38:34   doing I don't know if that's your

00:38:37   position is that not your position do

00:38:38   you think it's nice to see astronauts

00:38:40   you think it's good to see their they've

00:38:42   got the common touch and they're in

00:38:43   touch with their colleagues here on

00:38:45   earth and they're still average Joe you

00:38:47   think this is a nice thing do you're

00:38:48   pleased gee Brady I can't tell from here

00:38:51   you want me to go I want the truth

00:38:56   there's many things here not it reckon

00:38:58   there's one thing don't dress up the

00:39:00   Spider Man when you're in space just do

00:39:03   space stuff you're cool enough sometimes

00:39:06   Brady your frustration and anger really

00:39:08   warms my heart and this is what's going

00:39:10   on the argument from NASA is gonna be

00:39:13   you know if we're gonna have all this

00:39:14   public money we have to do things for

00:39:16   the public but what do you think's gonna

00:39:18   happen do you think they're gonna be

00:39:19   sitting in Congress one day saying

00:39:20   should we give 10 billion dollars to

00:39:22   NASA so they can go to Mars well I was

00:39:24   gonna say no but because that guy

00:39:25   dressed up as spider-man here's your

00:39:27   money like they're not doing themselves

00:39:30   any favors they're not gonna help

00:39:32   themself get more funding doing this I

00:39:34   think they're hurting their chances in

00:39:35   the future because they're just going to

00:39:37   be taken less seriously next time they

00:39:39   ask for 10 billion dollars to cure

00:39:41   cancer with experiments in space

00:39:43   someone's just gonna wheel out a picture

00:39:45   of him dressed as spider-man and saying

00:39:46   are we sending you up there for a jolly

00:39:48   so you can pretend to shoot webs out of

00:39:50   your wrists get the spider-man so often

00:39:54   do something makes my blood boil what am

00:39:59   I missing Green hokey the opposite case

00:40:01   play

00:40:01   please make the opposite case and I will

00:40:03   apologize okay well I can kind of make

00:40:05   the opposite case I'm gonna try to do

00:40:08   with you do which is be devil's advocate

00:40:09   I cared for a moment here which I might

00:40:12   be terrible laughs but okay so if I'm

00:40:14   trying to make the devil's advocate case

00:40:16   for this I would say that if I think

00:40:19   about my Twitter stream when was the

00:40:23   last time I saw an astronaut in it never

00:40:27   I can't think of the last time that I

00:40:28   saw anything about like a NASA style

00:40:32   what's an astronaut doing in outer space

00:40:34   thing right and SpaceX is the exception

00:40:37   to that like I see SpaceX stuff that

00:40:39   people send me but I can't think of

00:40:41   anything as like International Space

00:40:44   Station stuff mm-hmm so I guess if if I

00:40:49   am NASA and I have decided that this is

00:40:52   an important thing is public awareness

00:40:54   of the International Space Station to

00:40:56   remind people that they're even in space

00:40:58   this is kind of the thing is this is

00:41:00   actually kind of a perfectly timed

00:41:01   conversation because we've been talking

00:41:02   about SpaceX recently and talking about

00:41:05   how it's not really a thing I follow but

00:41:07   I'm just sort of vaguely aware of what

00:41:10   they're up to because it's impossible

00:41:11   not to be aware even if you're not

00:41:13   intentionally following it but as like

00:41:15   man I don't have any idea what they're

00:41:16   doing up in that International Space

00:41:18   Station I guess they're dressing up a

00:41:19   spider-man I don't know it's a the one

00:41:21   time you do finally find out what

00:41:23   they're doing they're clowning around

00:41:24   like a bunch of idiots

00:41:26   it's not to say that I assume that

00:41:27   they're doing nothing right that's not

00:41:29   what I'm saying it's but it's more just

00:41:31   like what is my level of awareness of

00:41:34   what's occurring on the International

00:41:36   Space Station like it is essentially

00:41:39   zero and I feel like I'm the kind of

00:41:41   person that you would expect to know

00:41:43   more about this and I know that I am

00:41:45   weird a little bit in the way that I

00:41:46   deal with the news but I think that I

00:41:48   should know more than like average

00:41:51   random person on the street about what's

00:41:53   going on with the International Space

00:41:54   Station I can't name a single thing you

00:41:57   know maybe NASA has some internal data

00:42:00   that just shows this that like hey when

00:42:02   we do men on the street survey questions

00:42:05   like nobody even knows that the

00:42:06   International Space Station is a thing

00:42:07   that exists and they want to be able to

00:42:10   move those numbers so how are they going

00:42:12   to move those numbers that's like well

00:42:14   in this modern world where I think we'd

00:42:17   really do live in an attention economy

00:42:19   like you have to strategize about how to

00:42:23   get attention if that's your goal and

00:42:26   whatever work they're doing in the

00:42:29   International Space Station we know does

00:42:31   not naturally get the attention of

00:42:33   people so like you have to do something

00:42:35   else that that would be my devil's

00:42:36   advocate case what like what do you

00:42:38   think of that Brady I think well I said

00:42:40   I think if the one time people know

00:42:42   there in space is seeing them dressed up

00:42:43   like that it's doing them an absolute

00:42:44   disservice makes them look like a bunch

00:42:47   of clowns and like if that's the only

00:42:50   time people hear about them that's even

00:42:51   worse fair enough for me who does see a

00:42:55   lot of astronaut stuff in my Twitter

00:42:56   stream yeah at least I can say well okay

00:42:58   they're having a fun day but if the

00:43:00   people they're trying to reach other

00:43:02   people that don't know what they're

00:43:04   doing okay you made your case do you

00:43:08   believe your case yeah no I don't

00:43:10   believe my case at all but the thing was

00:43:11   great when you first looked at that and

00:43:13   you didn't know how I felt about it your

00:43:16   initial reaction wasn't oh my god how

00:43:18   embarrassed that the minute I saw that I

00:43:20   was my heart sank and like I thought

00:43:21   this is ridiculous but that wasn't your

00:43:23   reaction your reaction was quite you

00:43:25   were commenting on what you thought of

00:43:26   the costumes and this was okay and this

00:43:28   wasn't okay so that wasn't your sort of

00:43:31   gut reaction to it yeah but it's also

00:43:33   like we're having a conversation about

00:43:35   Halloween so I'm just like okay we're

00:43:37   having a costume contest right now this

00:43:39   is the question and you're having a

00:43:41   costume contest where every gram is

00:43:44   incredibly expensive to get there right

00:43:46   so what like what's gonna happen on

00:43:47   International Space Station I'm coming

00:43:49   at this from a very different

00:43:50   perspective what I was going to say

00:43:52   though is I kind of agree with you

00:43:55   although for different reasons even if

00:43:59   you listen to my devil's argument case I

00:44:00   think the thing that's happening here

00:44:02   that sort of wrong is companies and

00:44:06   organizations really focusing on public

00:44:11   awareness of what they do I have always

00:44:14   found that kind of a weird concept like

00:44:18   I get why it happens and I think that

00:44:21   there's something about the attention

00:44:23   economy and the social media world in

00:44:25   which we live that aggravates this

00:44:27   because

00:44:28   you can put these really clear numbers

00:44:30   on how many times is Facebook posting

00:44:34   from NASA liked or how many times their

00:44:36   tweets retweeted and you know what they

00:44:38   would have looked at the stats for this

00:44:40   for their dressing up as a minion and

00:44:41   spider-man and saw this off the sky Oh

00:44:44   number of retweets and likes and said

00:44:46   mission accomplished and what I say is

00:44:48   every single one of those retweets is

00:44:51   another nail in my heart and it should

00:44:54   be another nail in there heart tour no

00:44:56   another person this seamless humiliating

00:44:59   hitting we've done well I'm not

00:45:02   literally going to agree that it's

00:45:03   humiliating but I do think that it's

00:45:04   it's a case where the numbers don't

00:45:06   necessarily tell you something sometimes

00:45:08   I'm in conversations were I'm talking to

00:45:10   people who are let's say I'm talking to

00:45:12   people who are trying to become

00:45:15   professionals at either YouTube or

00:45:17   podcasts or or like the online world in

00:45:19   some sense and there's a thing that I

00:45:22   often say to those people which I just

00:45:23   realized applies in this in this

00:45:25   situation which is social media is not

00:45:29   your job like you're not getting paid to

00:45:32   tweet I go on Twitter because I like it

00:45:35   but it is also a thing that I do spend a

00:45:38   lot of time reminding myself when I'm

00:45:40   there like this isn't actually my job

00:45:41   right but it has a lot of the kind of

00:45:44   benefits of having a job or it's like oh

00:45:46   you tweet and you get instant reactions

00:45:48   from an audience and you can see like oh

00:45:50   like this joke landed really well or you

00:45:52   know people really like this thing it

00:45:53   got a whole bunch of retweets but like

00:45:55   that's not what my job is my job is

00:45:58   making videos or podcasts like that's

00:46:00   the actual job the social media is just

00:46:02   a thing on top of it but it's really

00:46:04   easy to get turned around on that I feel

00:46:08   like it's the same thing with a lot of

00:46:10   companies that seem weirdly obsessed or

00:46:13   just weirdly interested in what their

00:46:16   social media presence is and if I was

00:46:20   sitting down with like the board of NASA

00:46:21   I'd want to have a real conversation

00:46:23   about like okay what do you think this

00:46:26   social media presence gets you because

00:46:30   it's super easy to measure which makes

00:46:33   it very easy to turn into somebody's job

00:46:36   which makes it very easy to have

00:46:37   actionable items around but what are you

00:46:40   getting out

00:46:41   it I think at best it's just a waste of

00:46:44   time to me this is like a neutral thing

00:46:47   it doesn't count but I think you have

00:46:49   made a pretty strong point that it's not

00:46:52   even just a negative that maybe it's

00:46:54   worse than nothing

00:46:56   that the only way that NASA can get a

00:46:59   million retweets is by doing a thing

00:47:03   that diminishes NASA just quickly coming

00:47:06   back to something you said greater about

00:47:08   social media not being your job do you

00:47:11   ever tell yourself that having a strong

00:47:13   social media presence though I'm being

00:47:14   like an interesting person who are

00:47:16   people look forward to tweets from

00:47:18   doesn't help your job though in some way

00:47:20   like because then when you do like say

00:47:22   I've got a new video or you want to

00:47:24   engage with that audience you've got

00:47:26   them on your side do you not see it as

00:47:28   part of your job to cultivate that part

00:47:31   of your audience because it feeds into

00:47:33   your main job here's the way I look at

00:47:35   it there's a benefit to having a Twitter

00:47:38   audience the benefit it's not zero but

00:47:43   it's very close to zero yeah

00:47:46   there's no video that I'm going to make

00:47:47   or there's no podcast episode that I'm

00:47:49   going to put out where if I lean on it

00:47:53   really hard on Twitter it's going to

00:47:55   make any kind of measurable difference

00:47:56   in how that actually does and when I

00:48:00   look at you know the podcast back end or

00:48:02   the YouTube back end I do try to tell

00:48:05   people this but it's like I'm fortunate

00:48:06   enough that I do pretty well on on

00:48:08   Reddit when I post videos but people

00:48:10   think that like Reddit driving an

00:48:12   enormous amount of traffic to the video

00:48:14   sounds like it really isn't and like

00:48:15   read its presence is way bigger than my

00:48:18   Twitter presence so like when I post a

00:48:20   tweet to a video it's really just for

00:48:23   like oh there's people who are here

00:48:24   right now who might want to see it and

00:48:26   it's just convenient for them to click

00:48:28   the link but like I could stop linking

00:48:31   to my own stuff on Twitter and I don't

00:48:32   think it would make any difference to

00:48:33   the success or failure of my various

00:48:35   projects I mean oh I haven't got loads

00:48:37   of Twitter followers but I occasionally

00:48:39   will have friends who have like you know

00:48:40   no presence on social media and they'll

00:48:42   say to me Oh Brody can you tweet this

00:48:44   thing for me because if you do it will

00:48:46   help and I always say to them seriously

00:48:48   you might get five people looking at it

00:48:51   if I tweet it yeah people dramatically

00:48:53   overestimate what the

00:48:55   presence is like I'm sure a lot of

00:48:56   people see it but people don't like if

00:48:58   you ask people on Twitter to do

00:49:00   something they generally won't do it

00:49:02   unless you're asking to do something

00:49:04   they already want to do yeah but even

00:49:06   then it's just such a smaller space and

00:49:09   I think you and I are in a position

00:49:11   where we're much more likely to be able

00:49:14   to encourage engagement because we're

00:49:16   individual people right like the people

00:49:19   following us on Twitter know that we are

00:49:22   individuals tweeting from our individual

00:49:24   accounts so I think we are in the best

00:49:27   possible situation and that's one of the

00:49:29   reasons why I like the companies and

00:49:31   social media

00:49:32   I just find very strange because I feel

00:49:33   like I think there's a huge amount of

00:49:36   this that is being done because people

00:49:38   think that it needs to be done but I

00:49:39   just always want to know like what is

00:49:41   the outcome from this like what do you

00:49:43   think you're really getting out of it

00:49:45   and I just don't think it's very much oh

00:49:47   yeah that was the thing that I was gonna

00:49:48   say before is when you asked like is

00:49:50   there a benefit I think the the way that

00:49:51   I like to think about it is if I didn't

00:49:54   enjoy being on Twitter would I go on

00:49:58   Twitter to promote my stuff for the

00:50:00   benefits like I would not right there's

00:50:02   no way I would do it right whereas

00:50:04   there's plenty of stuff about the work

00:50:06   of producing podcasts and videos that is

00:50:08   not enjoyable work but I do it because

00:50:10   the benefit is so clear right so obvious

00:50:13   so it's like Twitter just doesn't make

00:50:15   any sense in like a business context so

00:50:18   i's words grey wise words i think people

00:50:21   that cannot place too much importance on

00:50:23   the power of social media in particular

00:50:25   twitter to drive other things yeah i

00:50:29   don't think that it's that they are

00:50:31   these great engines that can drive

00:50:33   traffic and push people around the way

00:50:35   that we think they are people are

00:50:37   they're on Facebook whether they're on

00:50:39   Twitter and that's where they are you

00:50:40   can't use it to like leverage other

00:50:42   things in the way that people think to

00:50:44   sell things or to promote things and is

00:50:46   the immediacy and the measurable nosov

00:50:49   it that I think is it's like a siren

00:50:51   call to people where they can put effort

00:50:54   into it it sounds like what we were

00:50:57   describing that NASA does is that kind

00:50:58   of thing like oh what what kind of

00:51:00   events are there that we can tie in to

00:51:02   NASA's mission so that we can get more

00:51:05   hearts on

00:51:07   - Graham yeah I don't think that's your

00:51:09   mission guys I don't know what your

00:51:10   mission is I don't think that's it yeah

00:51:13   saying I have kind of fired my gun at

00:51:16   this NASA publicity thing that's been on

00:51:17   my mind let me get the last one out of

00:51:19   something else has been on my mind yeah

00:51:21   in 2015 wait look getting in the way

00:51:26   back yeah an American astronaut corps

00:51:29   Scott Kelly and a cosmonaut called

00:51:31   Mikhail Kornienko did this trip to the

00:51:35   space station NASA went absolutely crazy

00:51:38   promoting it because it was longer than

00:51:40   the normal mission I think they normally

00:51:42   go up for like six months or something

00:51:44   but this was the one-year mission the

00:51:46   year in space and you couldn't look at

00:51:49   anything anywhere on NASA without having

00:51:52   Scott Kelly's year in space shoved down

00:51:54   your throat year in space he's spending

00:51:56   a year in space he's gonna do all these

00:51:58   things during his year in space the

00:52:00   mission patch had a special year-long

00:52:01   mission patch with a big number one in

00:52:04   it for one year in space it says year in

00:52:06   space in English and Russian like us are

00:52:09   massive they were so pleased with it I

00:52:11   got sick of hearing about it

00:52:14   I love our non-overlapping world like

00:52:16   this is the first time I've ever heard

00:52:17   of this thing yeah anyone who knows

00:52:20   anything about NASA will be very

00:52:22   familiar with Scott Kelly's year in

00:52:24   space by the way 342 days he was in

00:52:28   space that's not a year that doesn't

00:52:30   count it wasn't even a year in space

00:52:33   how's that for false advertising that's

00:52:36   terrible now I'm just learning that

00:52:38   NASA's a bunch of liars here in space if

00:52:43   they think this is a really good gimmick

00:52:45   here in space and they want to push it

00:52:46   hard okay but at least leave the guy up

00:52:49   there for a year actually I was just

00:52:51   looking at a Wikipedia link there is an

00:52:53   ISS year-long mission link but I was

00:52:56   looking at Scott Kelly's page our

00:52:58   Wikipedia page and I don't know if this

00:53:00   is serious oh it's excellent Wikipedia

00:53:03   mischief-making there's no

00:53:04   mischief-making at Wikipedia someone

00:53:06   here refers to it the goal of their

00:53:08   year-long 11-month expedition aboard

00:53:13   it's got a year-long expedition and some

00:53:15   was put in brackets 11 months early 11

00:53:20   month year in space I don't know if this

00:53:23   mischief-making because if it's true

00:53:25   it's just it's like Wikipedia snide

00:53:28   nests there are sometimes articles you

00:53:30   find where there's like there's a kind

00:53:31   of I don't know almost like a style

00:53:33   guide for Wikipedia humor and that feels

00:53:36   like a great template for like the

00:53:38   Wikipedia humor style guide it's like

00:53:40   it's true but you know do we need to put

00:53:43   it right here in the title maybe not but

00:53:45   it's a great place for it to go I was

00:53:48   gonna say that the most generous I would

00:53:50   be with a year-long mission would be to

00:53:54   include the to transit days so the day

00:53:57   that you fly up and the day that you

00:53:59   come back down because when I travel I

00:54:02   don't include transit days in what and

00:54:05   I'm like oh how long were you on

00:54:06   vacation I was on vacation for five days

00:54:09   but a five-day vacation requires seven

00:54:12   days because you have to transit days

00:54:14   and transit days don't count they just

00:54:16   go into a void of nothingness as useless

00:54:19   days I'm also not sure it takes that

00:54:21   long to get from the launch pad into the

00:54:23   station I don't think it takes a whole

00:54:24   day I don't care if it's a 20-minute

00:54:26   flight if I've just flying down to the

00:54:27   continent that whole day is written off

00:54:29   as a travel day it doesn't count

00:54:31   so I had to at least get into the 360 s

00:54:34   before I'd start saying okay maybe

00:54:36   there's a day lost cuz you were going

00:54:37   the wrong way around the earth and you

00:54:39   crossed the date line and something and

00:54:41   there was some I don't know I could

00:54:42   accept some fudging around there I'm

00:54:44   like you I could accept a few days sure

00:54:46   but this was a full 23 days short of a

00:54:50   year

00:54:50   I feel pretty harsh about this because

00:54:52   my minimum threshold is he steps on the

00:54:55   ship and you start a timer and when that

00:54:58   timer is done it has to read 363 times

00:55:02   24 hours right and then you get two days

00:55:06   as transit days and I'll count those

00:55:08   because I'm feeling generous that would

00:55:09   be a year-long mission I think we

00:55:11   haven't have a word with Nestor about

00:55:12   what a year yes and the last people I

00:55:14   thought would need that explained to

00:55:15   them you see what a year is is see the

00:55:17   earth right it's going around the Sun

00:55:19   mm-hmm oh no but that won't help with

00:55:22   our year-long mission patch I feel like

00:55:25   that the longer you tell me about these

00:55:26   thing

00:55:27   the more I'm coming around to your side

00:55:28   here at Brady that it really does sound

00:55:30   like they're trying to come up with ways

00:55:32   to promote stuff so people hear about it

00:55:34   and then when I actually find out the

00:55:36   details I think worse of them than if

00:55:38   they had never done it in the first

00:55:39   place I feel bad about it I mean you

00:55:41   know how I feel about NASA and you know

00:55:43   I love them you were like the number one

00:55:45   space booster of anyone I know I mean it

00:55:47   makes me sad that they're stooping to

00:55:49   this it's disappointing it's

00:55:52   disappointing

00:55:53   buddy space bait SpaceX are terrible for

00:55:56   it they'll even post videos of their own

00:55:57   rockets blowing up if it gets clicks

00:56:00   okay do you have a website and if not

00:56:03   why not

00:56:04   cuz I think almost everyone has a reason

00:56:07   to have one whether it's a business some

00:56:10   passion you have an online portfolio or

00:56:13   CV a blog just a place to post things

00:56:16   that you create or you want to share now

00:56:18   you might think why don't need a website

00:56:20   there's things like Facebook Twitter

00:56:22   Linkedin snaps to Graham MySpace but

00:56:27   these are all places where you're the

00:56:29   slave to other people's algorithms other

00:56:31   people's designs and the ever-changing

00:56:33   fashions of social media a website is a

00:56:37   place that's all yours it's a hub a

00:56:39   place to show the world what you want to

00:56:41   show them in a way you want to show it

00:56:43   now maybe you think a website would be

00:56:45   nice but it's hard to make or it's hard

00:56:48   to make across all the different devices

00:56:49   people have these days with their phones

00:56:51   and PCs and tablets maybe you just don't

00:56:55   know much about coding and computer e

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00:58:33   episode I have got a little bit of

00:58:36   feedback from our school photo

00:58:38   discussion and you know how sometimes

00:58:40   you know you go off on a rant and then

00:58:42   someone points out some really serious

00:58:44   samba point and you think oh yeah I

00:58:46   guess I'm bit of a douche no you think

00:58:49   what a party pooper that's what I think

00:58:51   yeah yeah yeah basically just a quickly

00:58:54   very quickly recap we talked about how

00:58:56   the way school photos are being done now

00:58:58   is that students are being photographed

00:58:59   individually or in small clusters and

00:59:02   then they Photoshop them into these big

00:59:04   weird montages that neither you or I

00:59:07   approve life you didn't approve because

00:59:08   you didn't like the look of them I

00:59:10   didn't approve because I thought it took

00:59:12   away this whole you know documenting a

00:59:14   real moment in time sort of them so

00:59:16   anyway we discussed it go back and

00:59:18   listen to the previous episode if you

00:59:20   were so inclined but I did get an email

00:59:23   from a chap who works for a company in

00:59:27   Australia and his job is putting these

00:59:30   photos together

00:59:31   he's like the Photoshop a guy like

00:59:34   Mission Control that all these pictures

00:59:35   get sent to and he'd listen to the

00:59:37   section and he wanted to point out if he

00:59:40   was a good guy he wasn't like being

00:59:41   snarky or anything he just wanted to

00:59:43   give us more information and he pointed

00:59:45   out some of the pros and the cons of

00:59:47   this process and some of the reasons

00:59:50   that this is a good thing to do with

00:59:52   things that

00:59:53   had not occurred to me and I still don't

00:59:57   particularly approve of the process but

00:59:59   I thought it was

00:59:59   I thought it was

01:00:00   worth mentioning these things because

01:00:01   they were good points and I didn't think

01:00:04   of them before you go though I'm just

01:00:05   gonna guess that all of these are really

01:00:08   benefits for the school or for the

01:00:10   administration this is we're gonna be my

01:00:12   guess okay I don't know if that's how to

01:00:15   read these or not maybe partly let me

01:00:18   tell you some of the things he said some

01:00:20   of these are ones that you like well I

01:00:21   can't really argue with that but we'll

01:00:23   put them out there anyway one is that

01:00:25   and you will know this there are often

01:00:27   students at school her in dangerous

01:00:30   situations or predicted situations where

01:00:32   their pictures can't be published here

01:00:34   because of like you know parental things

01:00:35   that might be going on and doing this

01:00:37   process does provide a way to take

01:00:40   pictures of all the students including

01:00:41   the protected ones where they don't feel

01:00:43   left out so it's not like okay it's

01:00:45   school photo time but Jimmy you have to

01:00:47   stand over there in the corner because

01:00:48   you're in this like special case so it

01:00:51   does remove that situation where one

01:00:52   child is like feels a little bit

01:00:54   ostracized because this child can still

01:00:56   have their picture taken like everyone

01:00:57   else so it becomes less of an obvious

01:01:00   situation and I thought that's okay

01:01:02   that's an interesting point yeah I guess

01:01:05   I agree with that but I'm also gonna

01:01:07   take the unpopular position that like

01:01:08   not for me before these particular

01:01:10   students but like being left out it's an

01:01:12   important life lesson it's like it's an

01:01:14   experience we all have to go through and

01:01:15   of course the student in question is

01:01:16   still going to be left out of the final

01:01:18   photo so there is still this bridge to

01:01:20   be crossed but it was a point I hadn't

01:01:21   thought of I do wonder about that that

01:01:23   there's a thing where it makes it easier

01:01:26   on the day but it doesn't it make it

01:01:29   weirder later

01:01:31   it's like oh you've literally been

01:01:33   photoshopped out of existence you don't

01:01:35   exist I'm not a hundred percent sold on

01:01:38   that but yeah I actually do feel that

01:01:41   this lines up with my thought about it's

01:01:42   for the administration because that is a

01:01:45   super easy line for a school

01:01:47   administration to take it's like oh hey

01:01:49   yeah we're trying to protect the

01:01:50   feelings of all of the children right so

01:01:52   like boom great well basically the most

01:01:54   of the things on this list are also

01:01:56   going to fall into that sort of worthy

01:01:57   category that could be used then because

01:01:59   also pointed out is people with epilepsy

01:02:02   who can't do with the flash can be

01:02:04   stitched back in later not having to

01:02:06   have a flesh I feel like any depositor I

01:02:08   genuinely don't know I would be really

01:02:10   curious is there anybody who's going to

01:02:12   be

01:02:13   triggered into epilepsy by a single

01:02:15   flash I've never heard of such a thing

01:02:17   like an I know a sequence of flashes I

01:02:19   don't know I'm just trying to imagine

01:02:20   any kind of professional photography

01:02:23   situation which I have been involved in

01:02:26   and worked with the flashes are not that

01:02:28   frequent like even in pretty high-end

01:02:30   photography setups with like real

01:02:32   lighting gear I don't know I would be

01:02:34   very interested to know I would find

01:02:36   that just surprising I would I would

01:02:38   worry about is like a school photo shoot

01:02:40   is that a thing that is this like an

01:02:42   actual harm or is this just like a

01:02:45   theoretical harm right which again is is

01:02:47   like oh here we go with the safety boxes

01:02:50   right where someone's making an argument

01:02:51   for safety and you know one can say now

01:02:54   it just bit always past yeah sometimes

01:02:57   you get students who come from difficult

01:02:59   backgrounds that was pointed out and may

01:03:00   have sort of you know injuries or things

01:03:03   about them that could be fixed in

01:03:04   post-production to sort of lessen their

01:03:06   embarrassment he also pointed out

01:03:08   special needs classes where you have

01:03:09   children who perhaps it's hard to get

01:03:12   all of them to sit still perhaps in this

01:03:14   in the same way for a prolonged period

01:03:16   of time so doing them individually helps

01:03:17   and the last one he pointed out which is

01:03:20   a bit unsavory but interesting was you

01:03:22   also can sometimes get a problem where

01:03:24   if people are sitting if they're wearing

01:03:25   like dresses and skirts and they're and

01:03:27   they sit in an unfortunate or under than

01:03:29   the angle you get this problem with high

01:03:31   res photos now with unfortunate pictures

01:03:33   suddenly gets circulated all around the

01:03:35   school and can cause of a lot of

01:03:36   embarrassment for a student who kind of

01:03:37   just was unlucky in the angle that they

01:03:40   happen to sit on and things like that

01:03:41   and that problem can be removed as well

01:03:43   so things were things that were pointed

01:03:45   out and I thought they were all

01:03:46   interesting points that I hadn't thought

01:03:48   of yeah he also points out they some of

01:03:51   the bad points and one is that really

01:03:54   crappy photographers are getting made to

01:03:56   look good by people doing his

01:03:58   photoshopping work back in the studio

01:03:59   which drives him absolutely crazy

01:04:01   because he's getting all these terrible

01:04:02   pictures of students and he's like

01:04:04   making them look good and he also

01:04:06   pointed out that for one job he did

01:04:08   there was a principal at a school who

01:04:10   didn't like doing the photos but then

01:04:12   insisted on being photoshopped into the

01:04:14   center of every single photo taken of

01:04:16   every single class so the principal was

01:04:19   at the center of every single class

01:04:20   photo taken even though they didn't you

01:04:24   might find entertained

01:04:25   malaria's I'm still giving it a thumbs

01:04:28   down like yes you can make a bunch of

01:04:30   points it just has that same feeling in

01:04:32   my mind like this safety arguments where

01:04:35   it's like no one argues against safety

01:04:38   everything becomes safer and it's very

01:04:42   hard to argue about what has been lost

01:04:46   there's something about that which is

01:04:48   like that even mean who's like I'm not

01:04:49   one for like tradition and like a big

01:04:51   group events but there is something

01:04:52   that's just different about getting

01:04:55   everybody out in the same place to try

01:04:56   to take a picture and it's like part of

01:04:58   the fact that it's like a real pain in

01:04:59   the butt and things always go wrong like

01:05:01   that's part of the experience like

01:05:02   that's that's part of what it is hey

01:05:04   you're setting that maker I'm proud of

01:05:05   you it's also an even bigger click when

01:05:08   you say child-safe oh yeah oh my god

01:05:10   yeah I'm sure I've mentioned it in

01:05:12   passing before but I just you know I can

01:05:13   never not mention it again but in my

01:05:15   school's the forms for taking kids out

01:05:19   for field days or trips were such an

01:05:23   incredible joke with what they required

01:05:25   for safety yeah you as the teacher need

01:05:29   to think of everything that can possibly

01:05:31   go wrong and how you will prevent it

01:05:33   from going wrong thereby if anything you

01:05:36   didn't think about happens it's your

01:05:38   fault right we can blame you for not

01:05:40   thinking about it ahead of time and so

01:05:42   the end result was like well screw this

01:05:44   I'm just never taking kids on field

01:05:45   trips I was like sure they're safer like

01:05:48   it's just worse like it's just like

01:05:50   field trips are fun like when I did get

01:05:52   roped into doing them like I was happy

01:05:54   to do it but it's like I am never gonna

01:05:56   organize one of these things because

01:05:57   just like the structure of this safety

01:05:59   nest makes it untenable and it's like

01:06:01   it's there's no good it's no good to

01:06:02   lose that stuff it's also become an

01:06:04   absolute nightmare ever trying to film

01:06:06   anything in schools like I've just put a

01:06:08   blanket ban on that now sometimes my

01:06:10   scientists I work with will contact me

01:06:12   say Brady I've got a really good idea

01:06:14   for a video we should do but why don't

01:06:15   we like take it into a school with a

01:06:17   bunch of students and show them you know

01:06:18   this rocket listens learn and interact

01:06:20   with the kids it will make a really nice

01:06:22   fun video and it would and I just say no

01:06:24   I'm not pointing my camera at any school

01:06:26   kids even if you get like a thousand

01:06:29   permission slips it just takes one mum

01:06:32   or dad to say well I don't want my

01:06:34   little Jimmy in the background there on

01:06:36   YouTube and like go to the mattresses

01:06:38   and then you're like all your work just

01:06:39   goes down the tubes like it's just more

01:06:41   trouble than it's worth I think people

01:06:43   have become overly protective yeah I

01:06:45   agree

01:06:46   there's a weird situation where I know I

01:06:48   know people who work in schools where

01:06:52   the policy is about if they take the

01:06:54   children outside all right so you know I

01:06:55   think you're leading kids into a park or

01:06:57   whatever or you're on a field trip that

01:06:59   the teachers are supposed to prohibit

01:07:02   anybody from taking pictures of the kids

01:07:04   right now like this is an extra funny

01:07:07   situation because in the UK generally

01:07:09   most schools have uniforms here and so

01:07:13   for tourists like seeing a bunch of

01:07:15   English school kids in uniform like it's

01:07:18   part of the London experience like

01:07:20   you've come to another country and

01:07:21   you're just taking pictures in the same

01:07:23   way that I think if Westerners go to

01:07:24   Japan oh it's look it's like Harry

01:07:26   Potter I think I have never been more of

01:07:30   a tourist attraction than one of my

01:07:32   final years of teaching it was an

01:07:35   anniversary of the school and we all got

01:07:38   dressed up like even myself had to get

01:07:41   dressed up in these like very formal

01:07:43   academic robes sort of like the thing

01:07:45   that you wore when you got your honorary

01:07:46   Doctorate and the kids we were teaching

01:07:49   had these formal versions of the uniform

01:07:52   and they also all were wearing like the

01:07:54   school emblems and flat like it was way

01:07:56   over the top and then from there we

01:07:59   walked across the gardens at Westminster

01:08:03   Abbey has like a million photographs

01:08:06   were taken because it couldn't not be

01:08:08   just such a center of attention to any

01:08:10   tourists like it just it was so striking

01:08:12   I think it's just weird for schools to

01:08:15   have policies that like we're taking the

01:08:17   children out in public but nobody is

01:08:18   allowed to photograph them and say well

01:08:20   I think that's just unreasonable like

01:08:23   it's I understand the intent behind it

01:08:25   but it's just crazy I think I think it

01:08:28   really is just too far well how could

01:08:30   you stop people at Westminster Abbey was

01:08:32   it your job to throw yourself in front

01:08:33   of cameras if any if like a tourist

01:08:35   tried to take a pic yeah so you know as

01:08:38   always with these things I just ignored

01:08:39   it like what am I getting like yeah sure

01:08:43   I was the best meeting attendee ever

01:08:45   because I would always just sit there

01:08:46   and be like oh yeah what a great policy

01:08:48   sure I'll be sure to do that and on the

01:08:49   actual day like

01:08:50   not doing I hope you crazy to be fair

01:08:53   the people given the instructions were

01:08:54   probably thinking the same they were

01:08:55   like make sure you stop people taking

01:08:58   pictures yes yeah exactly and it's like

01:09:00   so we're all going along with this but

01:09:01   it's it's crazy and what I think people

01:09:03   don't appreciate with you know like your

01:09:04   situation you talk about filming in a

01:09:06   school it's like obviously yes it would

01:09:08   make a way better video if you had like

01:09:10   kids and and their reaction like that is

01:09:12   a super fun video but even if in theory

01:09:15   you went through the hassle of getting

01:09:16   all the permission slips like those

01:09:17   permission slips are not legally binding

01:09:19   documents right any parent can just

01:09:21   change their mind at the last minute and

01:09:23   they will do it or like they'll change

01:09:25   their mind after you put in all the work

01:09:26   and then tell you to take something down

01:09:28   so it's just like of course them telling

01:09:29   you to take it down to also isn't

01:09:31   legally binding but it can be more

01:09:33   hassle than us it's not legally binding

01:09:35   but you're in a situation where it's

01:09:37   like well now we're in a very

01:09:38   uncomfortable position aren't we right

01:09:40   because they say safety yeah exactly

01:09:41   it's just it's very very frustrating

01:09:43   it's very frustrating oh I've been there

01:09:45   I've been there great don't worry when

01:09:47   you say kids in schools like I presume

01:09:51   that you don't or do you mean university

01:09:53   level as well like would you shoot a

01:09:54   video no I'd be comfortable doing at a

01:09:57   universe okay so it's just like

01:09:58   secondary school level and below that's

01:10:00   that's where you draw the line where the

01:10:02   people are in an age where you know they

01:10:04   can't give full permission for

01:10:05   everything in their life a university

01:10:07   shouldn't has a choice as to whether or

01:10:09   not about such you know they're filmed

01:10:11   and such things you know well no matter

01:10:13   what we think of it I think for all the

01:10:16   reasons we've mentioned before is the

01:10:17   future of school photography look

01:10:21   forward to it parents

01:10:23   so Brady the composer of the hello

01:10:28   internet anthem Helen Stewart

01:10:30   the maestro I call him the maestro yes

01:10:32   because he does lots of music yeah I

01:10:34   just I just ring him up and I say my

01:10:35   screw I need some music yeah no he's

01:10:39   great he's done music for some of my

01:10:40   videos as well and he's died of course

01:10:42   our theme music jingle at the beginning

01:10:47   which I really like and appreciate the

01:10:49   little Easter Egg that's in there he

01:10:51   recently sent us an email with a link to

01:10:55   a little online video game that is right

01:10:59   in the crosshairs of hello Internet

01:11:02   interests

01:11:03   now did you play this video game Brady I

01:11:06   did I was just curious and I had a quick

01:11:08   look and then it became like a kind of

01:11:11   drug addiction problem that I had for

01:11:13   three of what he ruined my life okay all

01:11:20   right that's super interesting because

01:11:21   that is my exact same experience with

01:11:24   this I click the link and it was like oh

01:11:27   goodbye two days right like you have

01:11:30   just gone into the void

01:11:32   you are totally useless and I got

01:11:35   nothing done at all but as I was curious

01:11:38   just to ask you about this because my

01:11:40   impression is that you just don't really

01:11:42   play video games yeah I mean I don't

01:11:46   know I mean I know this is a game and

01:11:48   it's a on a computer this is not what I

01:11:50   would really consider a computer game in

01:11:51   some ways you should probably explain

01:11:53   the game and once you've explained the

01:11:55   game I'll tell you how I played it and

01:11:57   why it caused me some problems in funny

01:11:59   way okay right yeah so this is partly

01:12:01   why I was like I'm interested that you

01:12:02   played it precisely because of the

01:12:04   nature of this thing so yeah there's a

01:12:06   genre of computer games that are what I

01:12:09   think if is like barely games I've long

01:12:12   used an example listeners may be aware

01:12:14   of there's a game called democracy where

01:12:17   you are directing the actions of a

01:12:20   government but that game is basically

01:12:22   just like a pretty spreadsheet is really

01:12:25   all it is like it is as close as you can

01:12:27   get to a spreadsheet and still call it a

01:12:29   game and there are a lot of different

01:12:31   things that fall into this interesting

01:12:33   genre where it's almost like people are

01:12:35   playing with the idea of what's the

01:12:38   minimum thing that we can make into a

01:12:41   game and so this thing that was sent to

01:12:43   us which is called universal paper clips

01:12:45   this to me also falls into the category

01:12:48   of a thing that is barely a game so you

01:12:53   can just load it up in your web browser

01:12:55   now even seeing it on my screen right

01:12:58   now I feel the need to warn listeners

01:12:59   like listeners I'm gonna put it in the

01:13:01   show notes but don't click unless you

01:13:03   have like a like a weekend free be

01:13:05   listening Friday on your way home from

01:13:07   work but you know and then click if you

01:13:08   have two full days to burn your way

01:13:11   through this thing and my warning and

01:13:14   I'll come to why I'm giving you this

01:13:15   warning in a minute is don't do it on

01:13:17   your

01:13:17   fine okay yes definitely I 100% back

01:13:23   that don't do it on your front of my

01:13:25   head and I got I got site date do it on

01:13:28   a computer because I opened it

01:13:30   originally on my iPad and it ended up in

01:13:34   one of those little pseudo browser

01:13:35   windows that's not really the actual

01:13:38   Safari browser I was terrified yeah and

01:13:43   I eventually got so terrified about

01:13:46   closing it I had to say

01:13:48   okay listen be a rational grown-up man

01:13:50   and start again on a computer because

01:13:54   there's like I like I had to look right

01:13:56   into the eyes of loss aversion and be

01:13:58   like I see you loss aversion I

01:14:01   understand what you are and I'm going to

01:14:03   walk away so an actual game you load up

01:14:05   your browser preferably on a computer

01:14:07   preferably when you have a big expanse

01:14:09   of time ahead of you and it looks like a

01:14:12   webpage from you know the very early

01:14:16   days of the Internet there's no color

01:14:18   it's so simple so simple it doesn't even

01:14:21   look like bad retro just looks so

01:14:23   minimalist that's an excellent point is

01:14:25   not trying to be retro it's looking like

01:14:28   hey this is when we could first make web

01:14:31   pages there's just some text and just a

01:14:34   couple of buttons and one of those

01:14:37   buttons the one right at the top is

01:14:40   called make paperclip and so you click

01:14:43   that button and then there's a paperclip

01:14:45   counter that goes up to one and you

01:14:47   think oh ok and you wait a second and

01:14:51   then you see that your inventory counter

01:14:54   drops down to zero because somewhere

01:14:56   someone bought that paperclip and now

01:14:57   you have 25 cents in your bank account

01:14:59   and so it begins

01:15:01   Oh again I'm gonna click make paperclip

01:15:05   again oh and now I have I've made two

01:15:07   paper clips and ooh someone just bought

01:15:10   my paperclip I have it right in front of

01:15:11   move right now which is dangerous to do

01:15:13   you from all recording so you have 50

01:15:15   cents available and so you click click

01:15:17   click click click and you think

01:15:18   something's going to happen right like I

01:15:19   wonder what's going to happen and you

01:15:21   keep clicking and you keep making paper

01:15:23   clips and eventually when you get 5

01:15:25   dollars you can buy a little machine

01:15:27   which is called an auto clipper which

01:15:30   will start make

01:15:31   paper clips for you and then like the

01:15:33   mechanisms of the game start to unfurl

01:15:36   themselves over time you can adjust the

01:15:39   price you can raise the price of the

01:15:41   paperclip you can decrease the price of

01:15:43   the paper clips you can invest more into

01:15:45   your marketing you can invest more into

01:15:47   Auto clipping machines you can try to

01:15:49   make like futures decisions about when

01:15:52   you're going to buy wire at what price

01:15:54   the wire is that right now it is all

01:15:56   just presented in the form of counters

01:15:59   on a web page and buttons to adjust

01:16:02   those counters that's all it is

01:16:05   very simple but I found it completely

01:16:08   absorbing so what happened with you with

01:16:10   this because again I'm just I'm

01:16:11   fascinated because if I had to predict I

01:16:14   would have guessed that this game game

01:16:18   in quotes would have a near zero chance

01:16:22   of holding your interest like I'm

01:16:24   genuinely quite surprised that this got

01:16:26   you Oh gray little you know me how

01:16:31   little you know me you know I'm the guy

01:16:33   who's obsessed with like statistics and

01:16:35   numbers and I know you're obsessed with

01:16:37   statistics and numbers but when we've

01:16:39   talked about games the thing that you

01:16:41   often mention hmm is the thing about

01:16:43   like it not being real or it feeling

01:16:45   like it's a waste of time and so that

01:16:47   this is these are all just pretend

01:16:49   statistics like there's nothing that's

01:16:51   real here well the thing about this game

01:16:54   is that I mean we're not gonna spoil the

01:16:57   game other than to say it would be fair

01:17:00   to say the game escalate yeah overtime

01:17:03   but also it can be left alone mm-hmm so

01:17:08   you can't have it running in the

01:17:09   background a smart person would get up

01:17:11   and walk away a crazy person would sit

01:17:14   there watching the numbers killing up

01:17:16   right that would be insanity yeah and

01:17:18   that's what happened like I kept telling

01:17:19   myself I'm just gonna make a little

01:17:21   tweak here and leave it alone while I

01:17:22   get on with my editing but obviously I

01:17:25   didn't I just kept coming back to it

01:17:26   time and time and time again and it

01:17:28   caused real productivity problems but

01:17:30   you know it's just a well-designed game

01:17:31   it's just addictive there's always one

01:17:33   more little thing that's just a few more

01:17:35   steps away that's gonna unlock a whole

01:17:37   new thing for you oh if I could just get

01:17:39   another you know a few more dollars here

01:17:41   if I just make ten more of these and get

01:17:43   four more of these

01:17:44   as I can get one of these to do that

01:17:46   which you have to be there to then click

01:17:48   on so there's always one more thing to

01:17:51   keep you there to click on but I opened

01:17:52   it on my phone right and you know

01:17:55   because I didn't know how long this is

01:17:56   gonna take I thought this would be like

01:17:57   you know an hour or so

01:17:58   there's also games that are almost like

01:17:59   arthouse games where they're just little

01:18:01   demos to like explain an idea about a

01:18:04   thing there's one I can't remember what

01:18:06   it's called off the top of my head but

01:18:07   I'll find it for the shownotes

01:18:08   there's a game which is just about it's

01:18:10   like you're deciding what to show people

01:18:13   on the TV news that is also like barely

01:18:16   a game but it's also like a 20-minute

01:18:18   experience because it's almost like a

01:18:20   piece of art yeah when I saw this I

01:18:22   think maybe that is partly what dragged

01:18:24   me in as well is because I was thinking

01:18:26   oh this is probably a short little art

01:18:29   experience that just wants to tell me

01:18:30   something right it's like nope your life

01:18:34   and the thing about the game that I

01:18:37   think is really commendable is how much

01:18:39   it holds back and how long it hides its

01:18:44   debts for most modern video games we

01:18:47   have an awesome title sequence and

01:18:48   marketing and blow your way right from

01:18:50   the start you think oh I have to play

01:18:51   this but this game just keeps giving and

01:18:53   giving very very gradually mmm if you

01:18:56   think about what it was like towards the

01:18:58   end well you could never imagine it had

01:19:00   wood is gonna get to this stage the

01:19:02   things that were happening later on like

01:19:03   and it just kept all of that under its

01:19:05   cloak for so long but I opened it on a

01:19:08   phone and my night got wiped out I was

01:19:11   home alone that night because my wife

01:19:12   was working late she got home late and

01:19:14   I'm like ah I've got a problem and I

01:19:16   can't now shut this browser on my phone

01:19:19   because I'll lose all the work I've

01:19:20   invested into it and I ended up all

01:19:22   night with my phone next to the bed on

01:19:25   the floor and me deliberately sleeping

01:19:27   like at the side of the bed so that I

01:19:29   could wake up every 20 minutes or so

01:19:31   just to check on how things were going

01:19:33   this guy and go back deep this really

01:19:36   got you but it got to a point where I

01:19:38   was thinking this is just like I can't I

01:19:41   can't keep doing this it was that loss

01:19:42   of vision thing so I had to eventually

01:19:44   say alright I'm gonna pack this one in

01:19:46   as far as I've gotten

01:19:47   I'm gonna have to pack this one in and

01:19:49   start it again on a browser on my

01:19:51   computer just so I can get work done and

01:19:53   still do some editing and like live my

01:19:55   life my browser started

01:19:58   and I actually had to learn from my

01:19:59   mistakes I made the first time around as

01:20:00   well so I was a bit quicker at the game

01:20:02   the second time but same thing for me as

01:20:04   well as like round two I'm like okay I'm

01:20:06   all business here right I know I know

01:20:07   what to do

01:20:08   yeah I mean you know me I'm I like sort

01:20:11   of stats and numbers I do have like an

01:20:13   addictive personality I'm quite

01:20:14   obsessive hmm you know I'm someone who

01:20:16   would do something for a long time for

01:20:18   no real reason I know that you are

01:20:20   obsessive it is interesting to me that

01:20:23   this caught your obsession right where

01:20:25   it got me

01:20:26   it got me a big time yeah knowing what I

01:20:28   know about it now I could have thought

01:20:30   that this was like a honey pot set for

01:20:31   exactly me on the internet right with

01:20:33   like with like how hard god I wouldn't

01:20:38   have thought that that same thing about

01:20:39   you and I don't know much about who made

01:20:42   it or why I just I didn't really look

01:20:44   into that but I I do have to say from a

01:20:46   game design perspective like like you

01:20:48   said on on the surface level it does a

01:20:51   very good job of holding back or just

01:20:54   like just showing you enough that you

01:20:56   you're interested in seeing what what

01:20:57   the next thing is it does a very good

01:21:00   job of that but the other thing that I

01:21:02   found really fascinating is because the

01:21:05   game is so simple is like I am very

01:21:07   familiar with all of the mechanics from

01:21:10   a game design perspective of what this

01:21:12   is doing or you have had like countdown

01:21:15   timers and it's using different

01:21:17   currencies like these are are very

01:21:20   familiar game mechanisms and what I

01:21:22   found really fascinating is I almost

01:21:25   always loathe games that use these

01:21:29   mechanics because I think that they are

01:21:31   a cynical ploy yeah they're often very

01:21:35   cheap they're a very easy way to

01:21:37   manipulate someone but somehow like this

01:21:41   game just I think it was a great example

01:21:44   of make a thing that is much better than

01:21:47   the sum of its parts so if someone

01:21:49   described to me the mechanics of this

01:21:51   game I would have said like oh that's

01:21:52   awful I will never play that I don't

01:21:54   have any reason to play it and what I

01:21:56   actually got out of it was a very

01:21:58   enjoyable experience that was was

01:22:00   totally unexpected so I'm genuinely glad

01:22:03   that you liked it I'm sorry that you you

01:22:05   lost two days of your life but it's

01:22:08   interesting to me to hear that this one

01:22:10   got you

01:22:11   I'm sure the listeners - hello Internet

01:22:13   can I go and give it a workout now so

01:22:15   I'm sure we'll hear what other people

01:22:16   thought about it up with the link in the

01:22:18   show notes again recommend it when

01:22:20   people give it a try go and have a look

01:22:22   it's a gray honey pot hello hello

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01:24:46   harrys.com / h i so i recently was

01:24:52   traveling brady i think i mentioned in

01:24:54   the last show just as you were telling

01:24:55   me about plane crash corner but i had a

01:24:57   plane to step on so thanks as always for

01:25:00   that we'd appreciate it

01:25:01   Did you touch the outside when you go no

01:25:03   I did not touch the outside but but keep

01:25:06   an eye out you know for suspicious

01:25:08   activities right Oh Chinese ladies you

01:25:12   can say it got to make sure that engines

01:25:13   nice and safe that's all I'm saying

01:25:15   but so I was ended up going to New York

01:25:18   for some business reasons and I ended up

01:25:21   in downtown Manhattan where I have not

01:25:26   been for a very long time

01:25:29   I've been back to New York a bunch since

01:25:31   I moved away in my adulthood but I

01:25:34   hadn't been back to downtown Manhattan

01:25:38   since I think probably about like 2004

01:25:43   or maybe 2003 was the last time I was

01:25:46   there

01:25:46   and of course traveling to New York time

01:25:50   zones are all messed up I get in the day

01:25:53   before I have stuff to do because travel

01:25:55   days don't count they are void of

01:25:57   nothingness and then the next morning I

01:25:58   wake up and it's like 4:00 in the

01:26:00   morning in New York and I'm thinking

01:26:02   what am I gonna do well I need to wait

01:26:04   for the rest of this city to wake up and

01:26:06   gray it's a city that never sleeps

01:26:08   it definitely sleeps Brady me it's an

01:26:12   amazing advertising slogan from New York

01:26:16   but New York goes just like if you're

01:26:18   trying to get a bacon egg and cheese

01:26:20   bagel at 4:00 in the morning like you're

01:26:21   gonna be hard-pressed to find a lot of

01:26:23   places that are open so it definitely

01:26:25   sleeps Las Vegas is the city that

01:26:27   doesn't sleep that one is real yeah you

01:26:30   can gamble your life away - any time of

01:26:32   day in Las Vegas but so I think about

01:26:34   like what am I gonna do then it dawned

01:26:36   on me as like oh I

01:26:37   just realized I haven't been here for

01:26:38   forever I have never seen the 9/11

01:26:44   memorial since it was finished so the

01:26:48   last time I was there in 2003 or 2004

01:26:51   the 9/11 site was still just a hole in

01:26:54   the ground it took for ever for any

01:26:59   major construction to start in there and

01:27:02   last time I saw it it was just a empty

01:27:05   pit so I thought you know this is what

01:27:06   I'm gonna do I have some time to kill

01:27:08   let me wander down and take a look it

01:27:10   was a very interesting experience to

01:27:13   actually see this thing let me just

01:27:17   describe to so you go to the 9/11

01:27:18   memorial and the whole former ground

01:27:23   where the Twin Towers were that has been

01:27:26   turned into the memorial and what

01:27:30   they've done is they've made these huge

01:27:33   pools out of the footprints of the twin

01:27:37   tower buildings and I have to say like I

01:27:40   didn't grow up in New York but as

01:27:42   someone in that area like I found going

01:27:46   there early in the morning when no one's

01:27:48   around and kind of coming up on these

01:27:51   former footprints of the building I

01:27:54   genuinely found it surprisingly

01:27:56   affecting like the way they set the

01:27:59   whole thing up you can't really see the

01:28:02   footprints of the buildings until you're

01:28:04   standing right there they've built it so

01:28:08   that there's a border around the two

01:28:11   holes and the border lists the names of

01:28:15   everybody who died on those days it was

01:28:18   interesting to see but there were two

01:28:20   things that I sort of I thought about

01:28:22   this on the actual day hmm one of which

01:28:25   was very surprising to me which is

01:28:28   almost the opposite of Trafalgar Square

01:28:31   and to frogger square famously

01:28:33   is the no-fun zone where you're not

01:28:36   allowed to touch anything the 9/11

01:28:39   memorial actually had a bunch of signs

01:28:41   all around it specifically saying that

01:28:44   it was okay to touch the memorial which

01:28:47   I thought was a really interesting

01:28:48   choice and when I first saw one of those

01:28:51   I thought oh this is an interesting

01:28:54   decision yeah I'm looking at the Sun it

01:28:55   literally says if visitors are invited

01:28:57   to touch the memorial names panels I

01:29:00   would almost feel obliged to touch them

01:29:02   after reading that it's a very strong

01:29:04   statement

01:29:06   the thing that which is like I saw one

01:29:07   of those signs and I thought I think

01:29:09   that's the right choice I think this is

01:29:11   this is the way to go about it I approve

01:29:12   of this but what I wish I had taken a

01:29:14   photo that you can't see in that image

01:29:17   is I saw one of those signs and then I'm

01:29:20   walking around the memorial and as I I

01:29:22   saw another one of those signs and then

01:29:24   another one of those signs and they they

01:29:25   must have one of those signs every 20

01:29:29   feet going around the perimeter of both

01:29:31   of the former towers and so at a certain

01:29:34   point I thought okay it's a little much

01:29:36   now right yeah there's too many signs

01:29:37   now I'm feeling a little pressured into

01:29:40   touching the names like like you said

01:29:42   before I've not been there but because

01:29:44   these signs are quite like colorful

01:29:46   they're like a court of a British blue

01:29:48   color and the memorial itself looks like

01:29:50   it's a very kind of you know black and

01:29:52   grey thing I would imagine all those are

01:29:56   the blue spots everywhere would detract

01:29:58   from the aesthetic of it in some way the

01:30:00   signs that were there that I approve of

01:30:03   the message were so frequent that they

01:30:07   detract right it's like right walking

01:30:09   around you keep seeing reminders that

01:30:12   it's like you're invited to touch the

01:30:13   names you're invited special names I was

01:30:15   like yeah I get it like I get that I can

01:30:17   touch the names it's the right decision

01:30:19   buts too much it's too much Memorial

01:30:21   Greg well can ask quickly Did you touch

01:30:23   the names actually no I didn't touch the

01:30:25   names on the day that I was there

01:30:27   because while I know people who were

01:30:31   affected by 9/11 I didn't know anybody

01:30:33   who actually died on the day there was

01:30:36   no name that I would be looking for

01:30:38   there'd be nobody that I would have a

01:30:39   personal connection with there so I

01:30:42   didn't touch the names myself so I just

01:30:46   had this funny experience which was I

01:30:47   went to this memorial I did find it

01:30:49   quite moving I thought it was nice at

01:30:53   that that's it's different in that

01:30:55   they're inviting you right to be part of

01:30:58   this situation but there was something

01:31:01   about it that just kept niggling on my

01:31:04   mind

01:31:05   that took me the rest of the day to kind

01:31:07   of place it was on my mind so much that

01:31:09   I thought I want to go back the next day

01:31:11   and just see it again to see if I've

01:31:15   settled this thought in my mind and the

01:31:17   answer is that I have which is I think

01:31:19   it's a bad Memorial and the reason I

01:31:23   think it's a bad Memorial is have you

01:31:27   ever taken a look at the 9/11 memorial

01:31:29   on a satellite photo I have not all

01:31:32   right okay I want you to open up Google

01:31:35   Maps right now or Apple Maps or whatever

01:31:38   and type in the 9/11 Memorial and take a

01:31:41   look on a satellite image of what you

01:31:43   see how would you describe what you're

01:31:45   looking at tell me what you see Brady

01:31:47   well you see like a sort of a tree

01:31:51   grassy area and then you see these two

01:31:53   the two black squares that are the

01:31:56   footprints of where the twin towers were

01:31:58   they're kind of grayish looking trying

01:32:01   to think why this picture would

01:32:04   displease you here's the words that have

01:32:07   sailed on to describe it there's a

01:32:09   balancing act that you're trying to do

01:32:11   here right like it's a public space but

01:32:13   you're also trying to you know recognize

01:32:16   whatever has occurred with the memorial

01:32:19   I mean you could suggest that maybe it's

01:32:21   a stock from Andhra of a sky left behind

01:32:24   on the city it looks that's the feeling

01:32:25   that that is my conclusion yeah I think

01:32:30   it's affecting as an individual to walk

01:32:33   up and yeah to not be able to see the

01:32:37   bases and then suddenly they're upon you

01:32:40   in the way that it's built like you just

01:32:42   can't see it in the distance and I think

01:32:43   it is also affecting that they have

01:32:45   water pouring down them so you can hear

01:32:47   it but you can't see it yeah but I think

01:32:51   this is like immortalizing an open wound

01:32:55   I don't think there's any other way to

01:32:58   really look at it it's like this is a

01:33:01   thing that was done to New York and

01:33:03   we're going to make sure that forever

01:33:06   the exact damage that was done is like H

01:33:10   on to the face of the city forever so

01:33:14   it's just interesting because it's like

01:33:16   I haven't really thought about this in

01:33:19   years like I was just aware that the

01:33:20   construction took forever and you know

01:33:22   it end up being more than a decade and

01:33:23   took ages to get the Freedom Tower put

01:33:26   up and it's like you know I haven't been

01:33:28   following it in in anyway even though

01:33:30   I'm you know from New York State but

01:33:32   seeing it now like when it's all done

01:33:35   and finalized like I just I really think

01:33:38   it's a bad decision I think it's a bad

01:33:39   decision to make a memorial that is in

01:33:42   the literal shape of the damage that was

01:33:45   done to you like I think it should have

01:33:48   been turned into a park that people in

01:33:51   the city could enjoy with something

01:33:53   respectful in that Park that

01:33:56   memorializes the event but to like keep

01:33:58   the wound open forever I just think it

01:34:01   was an absolutely terrible decision and

01:34:03   I've been mentioning it to people simply

01:34:05   because I feel like I want to be talked

01:34:09   out of this position like I want someone

01:34:11   to convince me why it is a good decision

01:34:13   so I can feel better about it but so far

01:34:16   everyone I've run into has agreed with

01:34:18   me on this one and I haven't been able

01:34:20   to find someone who's gonna talk me out

01:34:21   of it well I think you found someone who

01:34:24   disagrees with you okay tell me why

01:34:25   there but I'm not sure I'll be able to

01:34:27   talk you out of it

01:34:28   I mean I've not been there so I'm

01:34:30   talking as someone who hasn't been there

01:34:32   I did go to the site when it was being

01:34:33   cleaned up and you know looked down into

01:34:35   those big pits and I was actually in New

01:34:38   York the day that they got the last

01:34:40   pillar the last bit of rubbish out of

01:34:42   that pit actually and there was a big

01:34:44   ceremony so I was sort of the flyovers I

01:34:46   happened to be there for that and

01:34:47   looking at your picture which you sent

01:34:50   me where you're sort of at ground level

01:34:51   there is something about the whole

01:34:53   that's very gaping and very concrete and

01:34:55   very affecting

01:34:57   I agree with what you say about sort of

01:34:59   the scar and keeping the wound open but

01:35:02   I think a memorial is about remembering

01:35:05   what happened and I think if you gloss

01:35:08   over it too much and make it like a park

01:35:12   or you know an abstract statue or a

01:35:15   place where children can play and have

01:35:16   you know a place of happiness instead of

01:35:18   a place of sadness I think the thing

01:35:21   that is being memorialized over the

01:35:25   course of maybe a generation or so can

01:35:27   easily be forgotten

01:35:29   and the power and the magnitude of the

01:35:31   thing that happened gets glossed over

01:35:34   and it just becomes a park where you

01:35:36   walk the dog and you have a good time

01:35:37   and you may say yeah that is good we

01:35:39   shouldn't live in the shadow of a

01:35:40   terrible thing that happened but then

01:35:43   it's not really a memorial is it it's

01:35:44   just a nice space

01:35:46   that's wallpapered over a bad thing that

01:35:48   happened maybe that is how you deal with

01:35:50   tragedies I don't know like maybe that's

01:35:51   the way to do it but if you want to

01:35:53   memorialize and remember a horrific

01:35:55   event I think putting like you know a

01:35:57   pretty pink unicorn there isn't gonna do

01:36:00   that it has to be something that

01:36:01   reflects the scale and the horror of

01:36:03   what happened have you ever been to her

01:36:05   Rishabha now I haven't well I went to

01:36:08   the war memorial at her Oshima there's a

01:36:10   museum there for for the bombing and

01:36:13   it's excellent that's one of the best

01:36:14   places I've been they have a very

01:36:16   interesting thing there which which you

01:36:18   will find very interesting I'll send it

01:36:19   to you now it's cold the her Osama peace

01:36:22   memorial and basically right over the

01:36:25   spot where the the atom bomb went off

01:36:28   everything got completely flattened

01:36:30   obviously but there was one thing that

01:36:33   didn't amazingly there was like this

01:36:34   prefectural industrial promotional hole

01:36:37   that somehow remained standing but it

01:36:40   got really beaten up and it looked in a

01:36:42   bad way and when you look at the old

01:36:43   pictures of flattened Hiroshima it's

01:36:46   quite interesting that there's one

01:36:47   building somehow stayed standing and

01:36:49   then looking at photos that this is the

01:36:50   building with the dome shape on top okay

01:36:52   I call it the atomic bomb dome and they

01:36:55   have kept that in its like ruined form

01:36:58   right in the center of modern Hashima so

01:37:01   the city now is really great and buzzing

01:37:02   in the stuff happening all over the

01:37:03   place and it's a really cool place but

01:37:06   in the middle of it all is this like

01:37:08   repped building that is like a testament

01:37:11   to the the power of the atomic bomb it's

01:37:14   really moving and it works really really

01:37:16   well for me but maybe it works well for

01:37:18   me for the same reason it wouldn't work

01:37:19   well for you if you went to her Russia

01:37:21   you might think the same thing it's

01:37:23   keeping this wound open I think there's

01:37:25   something to be said for it like you

01:37:26   look at it and you think you know a

01:37:28   terrible thing happened to this city and

01:37:30   like let's not forget that and I think

01:37:33   those two pits in the ground in New York

01:37:35   are doing the same thing you know we're

01:37:37   not glossing over this with teddy bears

01:37:39   and dog walking areas and trees we're

01:37:41   saying

01:37:42   the city is scarred like we can give it

01:37:45   laser surgery if you want and pretend

01:37:47   that it's not there anymore or we can

01:37:48   say you know we've got scars we all

01:37:51   carry scars in love and things that have

01:37:53   gone wrong and sometimes you look at

01:37:55   your scars and you remember bad things

01:37:57   that happen you look down at a bad scar

01:37:59   on your leg and think remember that car

01:38:01   accident you had and it's part of who

01:38:04   you are you know you carry your scars

01:38:06   with you for life this erosion memorial

01:38:09   is an interesting counterpoint I've

01:38:13   never been there in person I'll

01:38:14   highlight one picture on that page for

01:38:16   you great because I think it best

01:38:17   demonstrates what I mean because a lot

01:38:18   of the pictures you're looking at there

01:38:19   the dome is kind of in close-up so you

01:38:22   don't really see it in context but yeah

01:38:24   I was looking at some pictures that are

01:38:26   backed up from it so it's like on a

01:38:27   green area that's a bit of a wall around

01:38:29   it I just sent you one by the river that

01:38:31   one in particular I think gives you a

01:38:32   good feel for how it just Nestle's among

01:38:34   the modern city on this on the bank of

01:38:37   the river it's interesting to see it as

01:38:39   part of the skyline there's something

01:38:42   that strikes me that's different here

01:38:44   that makes these memorials literal

01:38:46   opposites of each other one is a hole in

01:38:49   the ground the other one is a structure

01:38:51   that survived the bomb yeah it's like I

01:38:55   got a defiant note to it yeah I feel

01:38:56   like that really makes an emotional

01:38:58   difference this is a building that was

01:39:01   not destroyed by the bomb the towers

01:39:03   were completely destroyed and yeah like

01:39:07   we're going to remember that forever

01:39:09   it's a difficult job with this kind

01:39:11   thing like like what do you do I mean my

01:39:12   I am much more always in favor of thee

01:39:15   it's not good to linger on the past like

01:39:18   I just don't think lingering on the past

01:39:21   really does you any favors but of course

01:39:23   you know a nation has to sell itself as

01:39:25   an entity like and what has occurred to

01:39:27   it is is part of the story of what makes

01:39:29   that a nation and like and what you used

01:39:31   to bind people together like I I

01:39:32   understand all of that but I feel like

01:39:35   the Hiroshima monument is a thing that

01:39:39   survived a terrible event right whereas

01:39:43   the 9/11 memorial strikes me as just

01:39:47   we're holding this wound open for all

01:39:50   time and this area of the city is sort

01:39:54   of dead for use

01:39:56   because even if you're looking at it

01:39:58   from the satellite picture from above it

01:40:01   gives you a false sense of how park-like

01:40:04   it looks like there are trees but the

01:40:06   trees are all pretty far apart and it's

01:40:08   all concrete below those trees so there

01:40:11   is there is no way that that space is

01:40:13   useable as a park it is a real void of

01:40:16   an area I don't know it was I'm glad

01:40:20   that I went to see it him in person like

01:40:23   it was an experience to go and see it

01:40:26   but I don't approve of it as as the

01:40:28   memorial for all time for what happened

01:40:30   on 9/11 from the podcast that brought

01:40:35   you a vinyl record episode yep and a

01:40:40   pair of limited-edition trainers I think

01:40:44   we've come up with the mass-produced

01:40:46   item piece of podcast hello Internet

01:40:49   related merchandise to rule them all oh

01:40:52   I haven't given this a name yet gray a

01:40:54   project name Oh what are we gonna call

01:40:57   it already the way you're pitching this

01:40:59   story you say we I didn't know what was

01:41:02   going on until it was done you did

01:41:04   approve I said great can I spend a large

01:41:07   amount of money on a project that I

01:41:09   don't want you to know about yet and you

01:41:11   said yes yeah I gave you approval but so

01:41:13   when you're putting it as the like we're

01:41:15   bringing you a thing it's a team

01:41:19   everything we do on Halloween the RIC

01:41:21   name but I always feel like I want you

01:41:23   to get the credit as the man who does

01:41:25   the legwork for some of these projects I

01:41:27   say connect Rhett as the man whose house

01:41:29   is filling up with boxes of merchandise

01:41:30   so much so that he has to get a second

01:41:34   area for his hello internet logistics

01:41:36   center yeah I see what's going on here I

01:41:37   mean I don't think there's any should we

01:41:39   give it a code name I don't think it's a

01:41:41   code name kind of thing no it's just

01:41:43   operation hot it's operation hot stopper

01:41:45   that's just what it is because we now

01:41:47   have can I call them official yeah oh

01:41:49   yeah they're their official they're as

01:41:51   official as official can be all right we

01:41:54   have official hello internet hot

01:41:56   Stoppers how many hello internet hot

01:41:59   suppers are in this first batch Brady

01:42:01   how many are arriving in your house or

01:42:03   have they arrived already or they're

01:42:04   getting there tomorrow they're due to

01:42:06   arrive tomorrow they're having too

01:42:08   yeah a couple of boxes for we're talking

01:42:11   in the thousands

01:42:12   they've been mass-produced so they're

01:42:16   like proper hot stoppers like you'll get

01:42:18   in Starbucks for people who don't know

01:42:19   what a hot stuff now is there's nobody

01:42:21   it look there's nobody there's nobody

01:42:24   this is a first podcast that they're

01:42:26   listening to and they made it all the

01:42:27   way to the end that person doesn't you

01:42:29   can we can come on without having to

01:42:31   explain what a hot stopper is all right

01:42:32   I'm told they are official hot stopper

01:42:35   dimensions so they'll fit into your take

01:42:37   away coffee mug and the little plastic

01:42:40   stopper part should fit into your

01:42:41   industry-standard hole but instead of

01:42:44   like starbucks mermaid at the top or a

01:42:48   pret star your official hello Internet

01:42:51   the hot stopper has at the top what else

01:42:54   could it have at the top gray what is at

01:42:56   the top of the hello internet heart

01:42:57   stopper the nail in here that's the only

01:42:59   thing the mighty nail in gear and unlike

01:43:03   Starbucks green or pret purpley red of

01:43:08   course the hello Internet official hot

01:43:10   stopper is hello internet gray

01:43:12   catalytics absolutely perfect it looks

01:43:14   the roll so as of tomorrow I'm gonna

01:43:18   have a whole stack of a hot stoppers

01:43:23   bearing in mind I don't I don't drink

01:43:24   coffee by the way you can use hot

01:43:27   stoppers with tea you can tee it up I am

01:43:29   partial to a hot chocolate as well so

01:43:30   yeah or hot chocolate sound that works

01:43:33   hot chocolates officially part of the

01:43:36   lifestyle definitely not but can I just

01:43:40   say this is and this amazed me I met

01:43:43   with grey in London a couple of days ago

01:43:45   and I this is when I first told him

01:43:47   about about this project and I said grey

01:43:49   I've got something to show you and I

01:43:50   showed him a photo of the of the first

01:43:53   one that had been printed at our secret

01:43:55   production lat off-site and you were

01:43:59   quite taken with it and we spoke about

01:44:00   it for like 15 or 20 minutes and then

01:44:03   gray said something I cannot believe he

01:44:05   said he said to me I want you to send me

01:44:09   lots of these I want a lot of these like

01:44:12   there wasn't no okay I'll have one brady

01:44:14   to keep you happy and file it away you

01:44:16   said I want some and I see you of course

01:44:18   I'll send you some and you said no no I

01:44:20   want to

01:44:21   I want you I want you to send me like a

01:44:23   lot of bass for myself I couldn't

01:44:27   believe it okay alright alright well

01:44:28   like it's true they're great I do want

01:44:31   to bunch them in my defense what I want

01:44:33   it what I want to bring up here and why

01:44:34   we're talking about it on the show now

01:44:36   is that while you have brought into the

01:44:40   world these hello internet hot stoppers

01:44:41   and while I love them what we run into

01:44:46   is a kind of economic problem of

01:44:50   distribution so I wasn't sure if they

01:44:53   were ever going to be more hot stoppers

01:44:56   in the world

01:44:57   we don't even know right now what the

01:44:59   situation is is going to be because it's

01:45:02   like I love that you made this I love

01:45:05   that they're getting shipped to your

01:45:06   house but when we were talking about it

01:45:09   we essentially immediately realized like

01:45:12   there is no economically or or time

01:45:15   feasible way to even try to attempt to

01:45:20   distribute these things because the

01:45:23   thinking was obviously that some people

01:45:27   who enjoy the podcast would want some of

01:45:29   these you know you could have a handful

01:45:31   of them and you could use them for your

01:45:32   coffees and things like that when you go

01:45:33   out and about and show a bit of hello

01:45:35   internet pride you don't get thousands

01:45:37   of hot staffers made and sent to your

01:45:39   house if you're planning on just keeping

01:45:40   them for personal use right like we're

01:45:42   like that what you do know I always

01:45:46   wanted these to get out there to the

01:45:47   audience but the problem is obviously

01:45:48   these are like little plastic things

01:45:51   that on the face of it aren't worth like

01:45:54   you know a large sum of money they'd

01:45:56   like you know disposable plastic coffee

01:45:59   sticks but like to get them to people I

01:46:03   would have to sit here and like do

01:46:04   labeling and go to the post office and

01:46:07   put them into packaging and that would

01:46:09   take a vast amount of time so you think

01:46:12   we'll the only way I can justify that is

01:46:14   to like you know put a cost on them that

01:46:16   makes it worth my time

01:46:17   but then you can't sell like a plastic

01:46:19   hot stopper for you know quantities of

01:46:23   dollars this is the thing right this is

01:46:25   a product that when Starbucks has the

01:46:29   made right Starbucks has some paper clip

01:46:32   style factory out there in the world

01:46:33   that's producing

01:46:35   million hot Stoppers a day right and

01:46:37   they're getting that's pretty much what

01:46:39   I have to be getting they're getting

01:46:41   shipped off to Starbucks in huge boxes

01:46:46   right with you know 10,000 hot Stoppers

01:46:50   at a go and to be given a wife to be

01:46:52   given away for free because at this

01:46:55   scale for this material the hot stopper

01:46:59   from Starbucks perspective is

01:47:00   essentially zero right think the cost to

01:47:03   manufacture is nothing in comparison to

01:47:06   everything else in their company right

01:47:08   and so then so we were like hey let's

01:47:10   take a product that's usually

01:47:11   manufactured in the hundreds of millions

01:47:14   and distributed in units no smaller than

01:47:17   10,000 and get it instead delivered to

01:47:21   us in units of thousands to be

01:47:24   redistributed and then this is where we

01:47:26   started getting stuck in terms of like

01:47:28   what do we sell do we sell one at a time

01:47:31   like I was trying to think like would

01:47:33   that be almost like a funny joke like we

01:47:34   sell one at a time I was like no it

01:47:36   doesn't make sense to sell one at a time

01:47:38   it's just so fiddly and and crazy and

01:47:41   there's no price that could possibly

01:47:42   justify it and then everything else

01:47:44   we're coming up with a realizing it's

01:47:45   just like it's like we have manufactured

01:47:48   the world's worst merch product in terms

01:47:53   of ability to distribute to people and

01:47:55   and we just have no idea what we were

01:48:02   giving it a lot of thought I spoke to

01:48:04   you about it my days around and then he

01:48:07   like takes to me later and said I can't

01:48:09   stop thinking about it I can't solve the

01:48:10   problem I brought it up with my wife

01:48:11   right my wife and I had like a strategy

01:48:14   session where we're discussing what is

01:48:15   it that we could do with the hot

01:48:16   stoppers and you know I told you like I

01:48:19   was gonna get back to you about it and

01:48:21   then it's like a whole other day went by

01:48:23   where it was just on my mind and it kept

01:48:25   rolling it over like how did we crack

01:48:27   the hot stopper problem right like it's

01:48:29   like we're trying to crack the problem

01:48:30   where you're moving recycling from five

01:48:33   cents to ten cents taking it across to

01:48:34   Michigan like how can you do this

01:48:36   economically it's like I don't know if

01:48:37   there is a way to actually do this we

01:48:39   have to do something because we can't

01:48:41   just have all these it's just a story

01:48:44   right there's there's like this pressure

01:48:46   from the presence of these hot Stoppers

01:48:48   arriving

01:48:49   so essentially what we're saying here is

01:48:50   listen audience we're really looking for

01:48:53   some ideas about how can we possibly

01:48:55   make this work in a way that is not just

01:49:00   unbearably time-consuming and tedious

01:49:03   and makes no sense to do so so when you

01:49:07   go and read it and say hey Brady can you

01:49:08   send me one for a dollar can I just say

01:49:10   no YouTube channels I run and like a

01:49:15   whole bunch of other stuff I have to do

01:49:17   and sitting in the other room to like

01:49:19   put all these like five cent hot

01:49:20   stoppers into envelopes and and then

01:49:23   have people email me saying hey my hot

01:49:24   stopper never arrived I can you send me

01:49:26   another one and it's gonna turn into a

01:49:28   little tip for anybody who's ever

01:49:29   thinking of getting into the

01:49:30   merchandising business right you think

01:49:32   the hard part of it is shipping it oh no

01:49:34   right like that's that's the easy part

01:49:36   right the hard part is the eternal

01:49:39   half-life of returns and difficulties

01:49:42   and management's right and then from my

01:49:44   perspective it's like hey you know what

01:49:46   I love to do I love to raise the price

01:49:48   on things right like I'm I'm happy to

01:49:50   raise the price that like I was trying

01:49:51   to strategize about auctions and then

01:49:53   like all these other ideas that just

01:49:55   don't work at all but the flip side is

01:49:57   we would legitimately feel like terrible

01:50:00   people selling individual hot stoppers

01:50:03   or even a handful of hot stoppers at a

01:50:06   price that would make it make any sense

01:50:09   to be able to do it so that's why like

01:50:11   we just feel so stuck because it's not

01:50:13   like it's not like there isn't a number

01:50:15   where it makes sense it's just that the

01:50:17   number like we'd feel bad about the

01:50:20   number right because we're just selling

01:50:21   these hot Stoppers that are like a kind

01:50:24   of free to manufacture after a certain

01:50:27   point oh I had to spend a lot to have

01:50:29   them out I mean yeah yeah and by the way

01:50:30   a bit of inside baseball they mucked up

01:50:32   the mold so we agreed the designer had

01:50:35   the Marty nailing gear and then they

01:50:37   started like manufacturing them and they

01:50:39   sent me a photo saying we've made them

01:50:40   all Brady here they are we're gonna send

01:50:42   them to you and they'd mucked up the

01:50:43   nailing gear design and the nail didn't

01:50:46   have a point and it was like all round

01:50:47   and and they got it wrong and I was like

01:50:49   no no no you can yes so they had to make

01:50:52   a second mold we didn't have to pay for

01:50:54   that of course but they then made a

01:50:55   second mold so that's gone through like

01:50:57   iterations always a bunch of hassle with

01:50:59   this stuff when I say free what I mean

01:51:01   is like it's free at scale

01:51:02   national hot stopper that has produced

01:51:05   increases and the overall cost per hot

01:51:07   stopper of manufacturer

01:51:09   alright so we'd like it trends toward

01:51:10   zero if for some reason we're you know

01:51:12   getting ten thousand nine facts so it's

01:51:15   like I find this a really interesting

01:51:18   economic problem and I think we are very

01:51:22   happy to open it up to the audience for

01:51:24   any ideas about what to actually do with

01:51:28   regards to distribution of this I mean I

01:51:30   think you and I growed be quite happy to

01:51:32   just wear the cost and like have them

01:51:34   for ourselves

01:51:35   I quite like the idea of you and I

01:51:37   traveling around the world like Santa

01:51:39   Claus just putting handfuls into various

01:51:41   coffee shops anonymously like just

01:51:44   shoving them in amongst the normal hot

01:51:45   Stoppers

01:51:46   so people may just find a guerrilla

01:51:48   attack and find a bunch of hello

01:51:49   internet hot Stoppers in their local

01:51:51   Starbucks and things like that but I

01:51:52   think people will want some yeah so

01:51:55   that's where the problem comes from yeah

01:51:57   I don't know I'll leave a link to the

01:52:01   reddit discussion as always yeah what

01:52:04   are you gonna do with yours I'm gonna

01:52:05   use it to stop hotness that's what I'm

01:52:07   gonna do like so you take it to the

01:52:08   coffee shop with you like they'll say do

01:52:10   you want a hot strip and you'd be like

01:52:11   nope that's exactly right because if

01:52:14   there's anything I could do to not draw

01:52:16   more attention to myself it's having a

01:52:19   custom-made hot stopper and my local

01:52:22   Starbucks yeah

01:52:23   that's how I'm gonna fly under the radar

01:52:25   that is like advanced coffee drinking

01:52:27   though having your own hot stuff it's

01:52:29   like that's like that's pro level coffee

01:52:31   yeah I got this you could be like just

01:52:36   like a Superman and like let people be

01:52:38   like Oh have you got have you got a hot

01:52:40   stopper for my drink and they're like no

01:52:41   sorry about stock them you can just lean

01:52:43   over and go here you go man yeah I'll

01:52:46   sit there for an hour like a weirdo

01:52:48   waiting for them to run out just so I

01:52:49   can offer someone one when they go ah

01:52:51   there's none of them here you're like

01:52:54   what stop a Batman I do like the idea of

01:52:57   us leaving them anonymously around the

01:52:59   place but I do really like that do what

01:53:01   are you gonna do like how will you carry

01:53:03   it we just put it in like your top

01:53:04   pocket like we're on your streamlined

01:53:06   you know gray a man about town outfit

01:53:10   could you put hot stoppers like you and

01:53:13   your utility belt or something I don't

01:53:14   know how any of this is can work

01:53:15   know that I want them but I have thought

01:53:18   none of this through I'm gonna have like

01:53:21   a little batch in my car so when I go

01:53:23   like through drive-through Starbucks I'm

01:53:25   gonna be like when I see them putting in

01:53:27   I'll go no no it's alright that's

01:53:28   perfect

01:53:29   I've got one that's really good I like

01:53:30   that government if by the way anyone out

01:53:33   there runs their own coffee shop let's

01:53:35   talk business if you've got achieve

01:53:38   you've got a chain of coffee shops and

01:53:40   you're thinking I like the cut of his

01:53:42   jib yeah there that that's a nice set of

01:53:44   hot Stoppers if you're looking for a

01:53:45   supplier and we've already had the mold

01:53:48   made so we can get them for your cheek I

01:53:52   can send your thousands of the bad boys

01:53:54   I am looking forward to the reddit this

01:53:56   week I'm looking forward to the look on

01:53:58   my wife's face when these boxes the hot

01:54:00   stoppers arrived they're going straight

01:54:01   to the storage unit