The Incomparable

146: Bashing Two Action Figures Together


00:00:01   the incomparable number 146 to plan to [TS]

00:00:12   welcome back to being comfortable [TS]

00:00:14   podcast I'm your host Jason snow and in [TS]

00:00:16   this episode we're going to talk about a [TS]

00:00:18   recent movie release so many of the [TS]

00:00:20   things we do on this podcast it's [TS]

00:00:22   classic stuff stuff that's been out for [TS]

00:00:24   a while but in the last few months we've [TS]

00:00:27   been trying to do a few of the summer [TS]

00:00:28   movies and and get them out there sooner [TS]

00:00:31   and so this is something that came out [TS]

00:00:32   not too long ago as we record this week [TS]

00:00:34   and a half ago [TS]

00:00:36   it's a man of steel the zack snyder [TS]

00:00:39   directed Superman movie and we're going [TS]

00:00:42   to talk about it for the next hour ish [TS]

00:00:45   probably unless we all get very [TS]

00:00:46   frustrated and say this podcast is over [TS]

00:00:48   and then i'll be the shortest episode [TS]

00:00:50   ever [TS]

00:00:50   joining me to talk about the new [TS]

00:00:52   Superman movie are my three [TS]

00:00:55   distinguished panelists Dan Morgan hi [TS]

00:00:57   dan thanks for coming thanks for being [TS]

00:00:58   here [TS]

00:00:59   I Jason it's great to be back after such [TS]

00:01:01   a long time away from the incomparable [TS]

00:01:02   yeah you say that but the other episodes [TS]

00:01:05   i've recorded with you recently aren't [TS]

00:01:06   going to air for weeks now but I'm just [TS]

00:01:09   screwing with our audience just between [TS]

00:01:10   you and me we've done a lot of these [TS]

00:01:11   this week John siracusa is also here [TS]

00:01:14   John thanks for being here does this [TS]

00:01:17   title have missing colon 2 or is that [TS]

00:01:19   not a thing but me and you will not see [TS]

00:01:21   you [TS]

00:01:21   yes man of colon steel XO man of steel [TS]

00:01:26   no that's I would watch that movie [TS]

00:01:27   totally different character Action Man [TS]

00:01:29   O'War and because of the yeah that was a [TS]

00:01:32   reference the comic reference brought [TS]

00:01:34   him out it's more sense to you on high [TS]

00:01:35   moisture is I Jason I'd like to think of [TS]

00:01:38   myself as the the crypto in this lineup [TS]

00:01:40   yes Oh Krypto the Superdog he will be [TS]

00:01:44   making an appearance on a on a on a [TS]

00:01:46   future in comfortable life is one of us [TS]

00:01:48   Supergirl is one of us like Beppo boppo [TS]

00:01:52   buca di beppo know but both a superchip [TS]

00:01:55   about the super cheap yeah alright sorry [TS]

00:01:58   i was reading an interview with David [TS]

00:01:59   Goyer this morning in which he talks to [TS]

00:02:00   tell the story about sitting on set with [TS]

00:02:02   russell crowe and says to him [TS]

00:02:03   yeah the senior going to be acting [TS]

00:02:05   opposite beppo the super to cross your [TS]

00:02:07   arm I'll just looks at him and it's like [TS]

00:02:10   are you will leave in kidding me and it [TS]

00:02:12   was like yeah yeah I'm just kidding [TS]

00:02:14   so this is a I like to talk about when [TS]

00:02:17   the movie was made this is a movie from [TS]

00:02:18   2013 how was released last week so it's [TS]

00:02:23   it's not it's not a classic but we're [TS]

00:02:25   going to dive in just [TS]

00:02:26   we did with iron man and star trek and [TS]

00:02:30   I'm gonna blow the spoiler horn here [TS]

00:02:31   because really even though I ok let's [TS]

00:02:35   defense out he's an alien [TS]

00:02:37   oh yeah jor-el dies kryptonics blows up [TS]

00:02:42   a Superman color can do the same guy [TS]

00:02:44   that would have been a really bold move [TS]

00:02:46   if they decided like maybe let's not [TS]

00:02:48   just blow up Krypton the Sun like it's [TS]

00:02:49   still there when he can shoot lasers [TS]

00:02:52   from his eyes narrow drops red matter [TS]

00:02:55   into Klingon planet Krypton and it blows [TS]

00:02:57   up it's very sad to see that would be [TS]

00:02:59   really shaking things up bringing the [TS]

00:03:01   arms and in sit and Romulans from the [TS]

00:03:03   future man is from the homeworld of the [TS]

00:03:06   Klingons so Warner Brothers buys [TS]

00:03:08   paramount merges star trekkin see all [TS]

00:03:11   spoilers real and imagined we're going [TS]

00:03:12   to talk about what's in this movie which [TS]

00:03:13   means if you have not seen this movie [TS]

00:03:15   you should not listen to this episode [TS]

00:03:16   unless you are crazy person and if [TS]

00:03:18   you're a crazy person I don't want to [TS]

00:03:20   get near you because you might stab me [TS]

00:03:22   so do whatever you like [TS]

00:03:24   horn [TS]

00:03:28   there is porn spoken so I man of steel [TS]

00:03:33   this is a movie that was written by what [TS]

00:03:37   David lawyer and christopher nolan Jonah [TS]

00:03:40   Nolan no no one no one bucknell no [TS]

00:03:45   Christopher Nolan Ryan and so [TS]

00:03:48   Christopher Nolan who brought us the [TS]

00:03:49   dark knight trilogy that the Batman [TS]

00:03:52   Begins trilogy and so that there but [TS]

00:03:56   it's zack snyder the director of 300 and [TS]

00:03:58   watch men an interesting combination [TS]

00:04:02   I've seen a lot of articles that sort of [TS]

00:04:04   like in this Superman reboot 22 dark [TS]

00:04:07   night movies I'm not sure I necessarily [TS]

00:04:10   buy that but it's definitely I think [TS]

00:04:12   Superman shooting for [TS]

00:04:14   unlike Superman Returns which was [TS]

00:04:16   honoring the those classic Christopher [TS]

00:04:20   Reeve movies this is a return to the [TS]

00:04:23   beginning and people who listen being [TS]

00:04:25   comfortable know that I complain a lot [TS]

00:04:27   about retelling of origin stories you [TS]

00:04:30   know I sometimes I guess superheroes [TS]

00:04:33   most interesting story is their origin [TS]

00:04:35   other times I wonder though if we've [TS]

00:04:38   seen all these origins before and [TS]

00:04:39   they're not that interesting so it we [TS]

00:04:41   get it here i think so here's the thing [TS]

00:04:44   i have lots of problems with this movie [TS]

00:04:46   but I one of the reasons i have problems [TS]

00:04:48   with this movie is that I think that [TS]

00:04:49   there are a lot of things this movie [TS]

00:04:51   does right with a problematic character [TS]

00:04:53   and Superman who has his 75 years old [TS]

00:04:57   his origins are a little bit strange [TS]

00:04:59   they did do some rewriting and [TS]

00:05:01   refiguring of his origins and I think [TS]

00:05:03   they I think for a lot of that they do a [TS]

00:05:05   pretty good job so in this movie we see [TS]

00:05:08   when Krypton there's sort of like [TS]

00:05:10   political imaginations there's a corrupt [TS]

00:05:12   Society russell crowe is jor-el he's [TS]

00:05:15   he's trying to convince the corrupt [TS]

00:05:18   government to do something because the [TS]

00:05:20   planet's gonna implode on itself because [TS]

00:05:22   they've been mining the core or [TS]

00:05:23   something it's an ecological catastrophe [TS]

00:05:25   basically but meanwhile General Zod has [TS]

00:05:29   other ideas [TS]

00:05:30   he would like to just shoot everybody [TS]

00:05:33   essentially and that's it and that's [TS]

00:05:36   sort of how the movie get started we [TS]

00:05:37   discover that this is what motivates URL [TS]

00:05:40   to send his son who [TS]

00:05:41   turns out is the first child born of of [TS]

00:05:45   woman instead of out of a test tube in [TS]

00:05:48   Krypton in thousands of years and send [TS]

00:05:50   his Son and the genetic material that [TS]

00:05:52   makes up the entire Kryptonian race to [TS]

00:05:54   earth and meanwhile General Zod is [TS]

00:05:56   blowing things up and and it was a [TS]

00:05:59   little like avatar because girl rides on [TS]

00:06:01   a little like one of those hostages [TS]

00:06:03   dragon chalice is like a dragonfly [TS]

00:06:05   yeah something like that which I [TS]

00:06:07   actually thought was kind of cool [TS]

00:06:08   this means a great it's a great-looking [TS]

00:06:10   sequence this whole section of Krypton I [TS]

00:06:12   think it's actually some of the better [TS]

00:06:13   green screen work I've seen yeah there's [TS]

00:06:16   my ride avatar a little bit with a funny [TS]

00:06:18   flying creatures in the weird shape [TS]

00:06:20   buildings and stuff well in the design i [TS]

00:06:22   looked like some of the design i like [TS]

00:06:23   the little robot you know his little [TS]

00:06:25   probe guys that you got going around [TS]

00:06:26   with them that's got scored the what do [TS]

00:06:28   you call that thing nothing that's like [TS]

00:06:30   made an impression [TS]

00:06:31   yeah that's right in the president yeah [TS]

00:06:32   it's got that thing direction as the is [TS]

00:06:35   the definition of all technology on [TS]

00:06:36   Krypton [TS]

00:06:37   yeah that's as far as they advanced they [TS]

00:06:38   got to like the nineteen eighties and [TS]

00:06:40   we're like my head and organ x-men to [TS]

00:06:42   remember [TS]

00:06:43   oh yeah oh yeah sharper image was very [TS]

00:06:45   big on Krypton so I i think it's [TS]

00:06:48   good-looking there's a lot of good it's [TS]

00:06:49   good looking effects it's a you know [TS]

00:06:52   spectacular sequence in terms of just [TS]

00:06:55   you know literally spectacle but it's [TS]

00:06:58   also way too long [TS]

00:06:59   yeah that's what that's what you want to [TS]

00:07:01   have an opening sequences you want to [TS]

00:07:02   knock people not people socks off right [TS]

00:07:05   from the get-go and starting with [TS]

00:07:06   Krypton wherever is watching this movie [TS]

00:07:08   knows what's gonna happen like we know [TS]

00:07:09   we're not going to be spending much of [TS]

00:07:11   this movie on Krypton Scott blow up [TS]

00:07:12   pretty soon and yeah it does go a little [TS]

00:07:14   bit long they could have compressed it a [TS]

00:07:16   little bit but like I when the movie [TS]

00:07:18   opens I was impressed by the visuals and [TS]

00:07:21   but because i figured like okay they got [TS]

00:07:22   to go chop chop chop I gotta have [TS]

00:07:23   Darrell he complains sends the Sun off [TS]

00:07:25   final blows up figured that would happen [TS]

00:07:27   in pretty rapid sequence and the fact [TS]

00:07:30   that they let it run a little bit too [TS]

00:07:32   long maybe a few too many sequences [TS]

00:07:34   should have been a warning for the right [TS]

00:07:37   how they were going to handle the rest [TS]

00:07:38   of the movie but at that point I was [TS]

00:07:39   willing to give them the benefit of the [TS]

00:07:40   doubt inside this look really cool yeah [TS]

00:07:42   i like the fact that i like how [TS]

00:07:44   everything played out i like that i like [TS]

00:07:45   to all the designs and the effects were [TS]

00:07:47   very impressive and I didn't you know I [TS]

00:07:50   didn't fall in for anything except [TS]

00:07:51   dragging out a bit much although in some [TS]

00:07:53   of those things like [TS]

00:07:54   it's showing the story about his parents [TS]

00:07:56   and whatever actress played his mother [TS]

00:07:58   and everything like i like to the the [TS]

00:08:00   actress who played his mother I'd like [TS]

00:08:03   Russell Crowe for the most part when he [TS]

00:08:04   was on Krypton [TS]

00:08:05   yeah i guess they wanted to make them [TS]

00:08:06   into some kind of characters before they [TS]

00:08:08   killed them off but i don't know if [TS]

00:08:10   that's essential for superman movie and [TS]

00:08:11   it made me it kind of makes sense of why [TS]

00:08:14   he sent to Earth in a retelling the you [TS]

00:08:18   know again I i don't really is a little [TS]

00:08:21   I I like well I like I'm trying to make [TS]

00:08:24   it something that feels a little more [TS]

00:08:25   modern and relevant and and they didn't [TS]

00:08:29   want the sort of sci-fi plot route here [TS]

00:08:31   but you know it was it was kind of [TS]

00:08:34   interesting it's me it's makto we really [TS]

00:08:36   need a reason later why Zod is looking [TS]

00:08:40   at this time like that that's what did I [TS]

00:08:41   don't think that's terrible you do [TS]

00:08:43   because I was trying to think back to [TS]

00:08:44   Superman to him like why was odd there [TS]

00:08:46   he was just annoyed that he was trapped [TS]

00:08:47   in a mirror for a long time and you want [TS]

00:08:49   to feel like this is at least a better [TS]

00:08:50   motivation because in this in this [TS]

00:08:52   genetic world where the people are [TS]

00:08:53   designed for certain roles his role in [TS]

00:08:55   the role he was designed for dictates [TS]

00:08:57   that he would go after the guy who's got [TS]

00:08:58   this genetic code or whatever like it's [TS]

00:09:00   silly but it you need something to give [TS]

00:09:02   a character motivation and as far as [TS]

00:09:04   motivations go it makes sense in context [TS]

00:09:07   and what's it's a way to explain the [TS]

00:09:09   kind of black-and-white cold war-era [TS]

00:09:14   villain that Zod was in the Superman [TS]

00:09:18   mythos where he is he's he's about as [TS]

00:09:22   nuanced is Cobra Commander in the comics [TS]

00:09:25   he's just and in this movie and another [TS]

00:09:28   movie I think I ya is more sympathetic [TS]

00:09:31   in the movie because it's like that's [TS]

00:09:32   what is it you know when he goes to [TS]

00:09:34   everything I've done I've done to save [TS]

00:09:36   Krypton ago well you know if he was if [TS]

00:09:38   he was genetically bred to be that [TS]

00:09:39   particular role as the leader of the [TS]

00:09:41   Armed Forces whose goal is to protect [TS]

00:09:43   crypt honest it's like a howl 9000 [TS]

00:09:45   scenario where he was programmed to [TS]

00:09:46   protect the mission at all costs and [TS]

00:09:48   ends up doing bad things really is just [TS]

00:09:50   trying to protect the mission right well [TS]

00:09:51   that is just trying to save Krypton yes [TS]

00:09:53   blew up but carrying out his program so [TS]

00:09:56   to speak [TS]

00:09:57   this is the logical consequence and it [TS]

00:09:59   would also make sense that you would [TS]

00:10:00   have no qualms about doing terrible [TS]

00:10:03   things because he is also supposed to be [TS]

00:10:04   the leader of the Armed Forces exactly [TS]

00:10:06   well yeah and despite the fact these [TS]

00:10:08   leader [TS]

00:10:08   the Armed Forces i also was was thrown [TS]

00:10:10   off a little bit by the fact that you [TS]

00:10:11   know Russell Crowe in a world where [TS]

00:10:14   apparently everybody is genetically bred [TS]

00:10:16   for a specific purpose and yet [TS]

00:10:18   russell crowe manages to pretty well [TS]

00:10:19   hold his own against like the top of the [TS]

00:10:21   warrior caste presumably which is it [TS]

00:10:24   loses in like five minutes it's not like [TS]

00:10:26   you know but I mean heels that we keep [TS]

00:10:27   knocking down a couple times like that [TS]

00:10:29   Johnson the the scientists versus the [TS]

00:10:31   warrior fights should be over in about [TS]

00:10:33   three seconds and I and this is an issue [TS]

00:10:35   i have later on to with the you know [TS]

00:10:37   which will get to with the the superman [TS]

00:10:39   vs odd fights to their there is the [TS]

00:10:41   russell crowe suspension of disbelief [TS]

00:10:43   clause in his contract is science armor [TS]

00:10:46   yeah you know and yet science armor [TS]

00:10:48   right science armor and just it's it's [TS]

00:10:51   something that they're contractually [TS]

00:10:52   obligated to give Russell Crowe one [TS]

00:10:55   fight in every movie that he's in where [TS]

00:10:57   he is the fist of justice fighting [TS]

00:10:59   against evil and he at least starts to [TS]

00:11:02   get the upper hand on somebody had [TS]

00:11:03   happened lame as Rob and they they they [TS]

00:11:06   made Javert you know more of a more of a [TS]

00:11:08   a strapping badass the same as gladiator [TS]

00:11:14   realize i just think this is the least [TS]

00:11:16   least believable superhero scientists [TS]

00:11:18   since Arnold Schwarzenegger plate Victor [TS]

00:11:20   fries couch so I don't want us to stay [TS]

00:11:23   on Krypton too long like the movie does [TS]

00:11:25   but uh it is interesting and it and what [TS]

00:11:28   we end up getting next which I i found a [TS]

00:11:31   lot of relief about is we don't end up [TS]

00:11:33   with you know comet kind of thing in the [TS]

00:11:38   sky people in Kansas wonder what it is [TS]

00:11:40   thing comes down Jonathan Kent finds it [TS]

00:11:43   you know be naked baby picks up a car [TS]

00:11:46   you know all that kind of stuff instead [TS]

00:11:48   we get a we get an adult more or less [TS]

00:11:52   Clark and we see him he's kind of a kind [TS]

00:11:56   of a drifter a traveler going from place [TS]

00:11:59   to place but he's also renal yeah [TS]

00:12:01   exactly he's with the beard laws but [TS]

00:12:03   he's yeah he's scruffy and he's nice [TS]

00:12:07   though he's not Wolverine Wolverines not [TS]

00:12:09   nice but he's scruffy and and then in [TS]

00:12:12   flashback we see sort of the story of [TS]

00:12:14   him growing up I i like to the attempted [TS]

00:12:17   to go i was really dreading the yet [TS]

00:12:19   another retelling of the origin story [TS]

00:12:21   idea why [TS]

00:12:22   quite why you dreading that why here a [TS]

00:12:24   lot of people complain all I can see is [TS]

00:12:25   origin stories in our what is it about [TS]

00:12:27   the origin story Superman's origin story [TS]

00:12:30   in particular that is off-putting to you [TS]

00:12:32   I you know as its not Superman in [TS]

00:12:34   particular I didn't really want to see [TS]

00:12:36   spider-man's origin story a second time [TS]

00:12:37   in ten years either end and it's just [TS]

00:12:42   it's it's the this ground this [TS]

00:12:44   particular grounds been tread on with [TS]

00:12:46   the Superman movies with smallville I [TS]

00:12:48   mean hanging out years of small i I just [TS]

00:12:50   I don't know I I worried that it was [TS]

00:12:53   going to be a story tell me a story that [TS]

00:12:55   I've heard in exactly the same way I [TS]

00:12:57   heard it before what I like is they [TS]

00:12:58   tried to tell it differently and I think [TS]

00:13:01   it was effective in large part I liked [TS]

00:13:03   the fact that he is sort of disaffected [TS]

00:13:06   and I mean alienated from people he [TS]

00:13:09   wants to do good and he wants to to take [TS]

00:13:12   care of people when they're in harm's [TS]

00:13:13   way but he's not part of our world and [TS]

00:13:16   quite you know quite literally but also [TS]

00:13:18   just socially he's not part of our world [TS]

00:13:21   he's he's removed from everybody and [TS]

00:13:23   then in flashback we see that what his [TS]

00:13:25   father tells him which is you don't [TS]

00:13:26   reveal yourself [TS]

00:13:27   I even if you save people maybe you [TS]

00:13:29   shouldn't save them be if it's gonna [TS]

00:13:30   reveal yourself and I'll I just I I [TS]

00:13:33   guess what i was really dreading was the [TS]

00:13:34   retelling of that same old story in that [TS]

00:13:36   same old way and i like that they told [TS]

00:13:38   it in a different way and got to the [TS]

00:13:40   point of like why he is what you know [TS]

00:13:42   for for the first 33 years of his life [TS]

00:13:44   this sort of secretive figure who who [TS]

00:13:46   doesn't make any connections other than [TS]

00:13:48   with his family because he's always [TS]

00:13:49   drifting on like Bill Bixby and the [TS]

00:13:51   incredible hulk well see i like to the [TS]

00:13:53   the substance of that i agree i like [TS]

00:13:56   that the drift apart in that the stuff [TS]

00:13:58   they sort of read it I actually wanted [TS]

00:13:59   more of that and less of the flashback I [TS]

00:14:02   thought I think for me the flashback [TS]

00:14:04   lost some of its effectiveness by going [TS]

00:14:07   so nonlinear where it really bounces [TS]

00:14:10   around between him as like you know as a [TS]

00:14:13   kid as a teenager as an adult I felt [TS]

00:14:17   like it got disjointed to me and I [TS]

00:14:19   didn't get a clear i never got a clear [TS]

00:14:22   view of clark as a character you know I [TS]

00:14:26   I feel being a lot of it because I know [TS]

00:14:28   who Superman and Clark Kent are but I i [TS]

00:14:31   did not feel like they did they needed [TS]

00:14:34   to build up a lot of stuff in order [TS]

00:14:35   in certain things later on and i don't [TS]

00:14:37   think that they built up enough of it to [TS]

00:14:38   actually make those payoffs work i liked [TS]

00:14:43   the substance of it but I just didn't [TS]

00:14:44   like the structure bugged me you're not [TS]

00:14:46   helping the people who confuse us than [TS]

00:14:48   because you said everything you said I [TS]

00:14:51   agree with as I want that I want that in [TS]

00:14:54   writing [TS]

00:14:54   I I agree I agree so much with with [TS]

00:14:57   everything that Dan said as well and on [TS]

00:14:59   the note i think the show's over guys [TS]

00:15:01   ceiling yeah I think we're done [TS]

00:15:02   I think we're done now our work here is [TS]

00:15:03   done Jason I in in something that's kind [TS]

00:15:08   of a sideways plug I'm glad that I [TS]

00:15:10   didn't have you on this week's episode [TS]

00:15:12   of giant size because all we talked [TS]

00:15:14   about Superman origin story telling and [TS]

00:15:16   it just would have been in our review [TS]

00:15:18   yelling and screaming and crying no no I [TS]

00:15:20   mean I i guess i guess it's the same [TS]

00:15:22   reason that I'm I'm kind of okay with [TS]

00:15:24   the retelling of of stories that are [TS]

00:15:27   that are considered sacred I actually [TS]

00:15:28   end up being more interested in them [TS]

00:15:30   being told differently than in them [TS]

00:15:32   being told the same way and and I just I [TS]

00:15:35   don't know why they are obligatory but [TS]

00:15:37   it is fine and in like i said in this [TS]

00:15:39   innocent i didn't mind how they were [TS]

00:15:40   they were telling him i agree with all [TS]

00:15:42   of you that the flashbacks [TS]

00:15:44   I mean that the flashbacks were long but [TS]

00:15:46   hit-boy they could have been so much [TS]

00:15:48   like it's not so much of their [TS]

00:15:50   flashbacks like well first on origin [TS]

00:15:52   stories I like origin stories [TS]

00:15:54   particularly superheroes because what I [TS]

00:15:55   dread in superhero movies is the ones [TS]

00:15:57   where they settled in where it's like [TS]

00:15:59   we've set up the world we set up the [TS]

00:16:00   character we set up the powers this [TS]

00:16:02   movie is created and tagging it's like [TS]

00:16:03   James Bond movie create antagonist here [TS]

00:16:05   goes against antagonist here defeats [TS]

00:16:07   that world is in the balance here [TS]

00:16:08   defeats antagonist that's what I find [TS]

00:16:10   tiresome about the h and when they they [TS]

00:16:12   change it when they've changed the lead [TS]

00:16:13   actor more than twice and that I don't [TS]

00:16:17   want them changing things around it's [TS]

00:16:18   just like it's like it becomes episodic [TS]

00:16:20   where I feel like I'm watching scooby [TS]

00:16:21   doo where it's like up here we go again [TS]

00:16:22   here at a spot like that and the orange [TS]

00:16:24   customer you and that even though that [TS]

00:16:26   story's been told a million times i I'd [TS]

00:16:29   is my feel more of a human connection it [TS]

00:16:30   feels less like a person going to work [TS]

00:16:32   and doing their job feels more like [TS]

00:16:34   someone growing up and like it's like a [TS]

00:16:35   coming-of-age story how did they come to [TS]

00:16:37   terms with the powers and how did they [TS]

00:16:38   take that the mantle of this thing they [TS]

00:16:40   want to become and it's in that [TS]

00:16:42   development from oh I have these gifts [TS]

00:16:44   what am I going to do with them that [TS]

00:16:47   causes you to create whatever kind of [TS]

00:16:50   character you are so what kind of [TS]

00:16:52   Superman is this what kind of Batman is [TS]

00:16:54   the tortured soul dark knight batman is [TS]

00:16:56   it the world's greatest detective Batman [TS]

00:16:58   is this the dude goody-two-shoes [TS]

00:17:00   Superman is the the you know the Darkin [TS]

00:17:02   and more ambiguous Superman is that the [TS]

00:17:04   alienated Superman and it's through the [TS]

00:17:06   origin story that you develop that [TS]

00:17:08   character once the character rods it's [TS]

00:17:09   kind of like I'm not as excited to see [TS]

00:17:12   that character have various adventures [TS]

00:17:15   in battle excellent there in the next [TS]

00:17:16   movie unless he still has some sort of [TS]

00:17:18   internal conflict or unless like [TS]

00:17:20   something happened to him in the first [TS]

00:17:21   movie that he hasn't quite results kind [TS]

00:17:23   of like casino royale where that james [TS]

00:17:25   bond character like he was different [TS]

00:17:28   character beginning the movie and had [TS]

00:17:29   bad things happen to him you know he's [TS]

00:17:31   going to be damaged in the second movie [TS]

00:17:32   and there was a writer struggle that was [TS]

00:17:33   kind of but that was kind of his origin [TS]

00:17:35   story though that was kind of monstrous [TS]

00:17:36   tries what I'm saying like that that [TS]

00:17:38   developed that gives you the James Bond [TS]

00:17:40   it in the land reason which you've um [TS]

00:17:42   you know I just wanted to say something [TS]

00:17:43   about origins that which is which is [TS]

00:17:45   origins are a good story to tell and I [TS]

00:17:47   don't want to get too far off here but [TS]

00:17:48   origins are good story to tell but there [TS]

00:17:50   are other ways to tell stories other [TS]

00:17:52   than how did I come to be if you it may [TS]

00:17:54   be harder to tell those stories but it [TS]

00:17:57   doesn't have to be just sort of [TS]

00:17:58   completely episodic i mean i can give [TS]

00:18:00   you an example of you know star star [TS]

00:18:03   trek it's starting to or started first [TS]

00:18:06   contact they don't they don't just say [TS]

00:18:08   how the enterprise came to be it's like [TS]

00:18:10   there's the characters that are dynamic [TS]

00:18:11   they have things going on with them you [TS]

00:18:14   can tell a good story without it being [TS]

00:18:16   the coming-of-age story i guess maybe [TS]

00:18:18   that's part of my my feeling too is like [TS]

00:18:20   it's not the only superhero story i [TS]

00:18:22   agree and disagree there where to die [TS]

00:18:25   hard star trek nerds like us start to [TS]

00:18:28   the wrath of khan and star trek whatever [TS]

00:18:30   number 9 10 is first contact is seem [TS]

00:18:34   like they could be great jumping on [TS]

00:18:35   points but there have been a number of [TS]

00:18:39   instances where I've tried showing both [TS]

00:18:40   of those movies to people that just [TS]

00:18:41   don't know star trek from pete and [TS]

00:18:43   they're lost out of their minds [TS]

00:18:45   that's not to say that you know maybe [TS]

00:18:47   they're their head wasn't in the right [TS]

00:18:48   space for it but those movies are better [TS]

00:18:52   at being able to jump into them than [TS]

00:18:53   some of the other Star Trek movies [TS]

00:18:55   but I in that specific case I don't feel [TS]

00:18:58   like they're as easy to get into as the [TS]

00:19:02   09 track for people that aren't familiar [TS]

00:19:04   with it all but honestly I think any [TS]

00:19:07   version of superman origin story they've [TS]

00:19:09   done in the movies is equally easy to [TS]

00:19:11   get into and the function of this one [TS]

00:19:14   should have been and was apparently to [TS]

00:19:17   reset the Superman world in modern times [TS]

00:19:21   and around story elements that will make [TS]

00:19:23   sense and not be entirely outdated and [TS]

00:19:25   sort of bigger action landscape but the [TS]

00:19:27   thing that drives me crazy about it [TS]

00:19:29   about this this that you know trying [TS]

00:19:32   trying too long with Krypton and too [TS]

00:19:34   many flashbacks is that they're trying [TS]

00:19:36   to do do they try to do too many [TS]

00:19:39   different mechanics at once and that's [TS]

00:19:41   why it feels long and that's why feels [TS]

00:19:43   like like they they could have trimmed [TS]

00:19:45   it down a bit while they're all [TS]

00:19:46   templated because we're talking about [TS]

00:19:47   you know we're talking to hero's journey [TS]

00:19:48   to answer yesterday right right so and [TS]

00:19:51   this is this is to me where this falls a [TS]

00:19:52   little bit flat is that it does try to [TS]

00:19:54   mix up the hero's journey a little bit [TS]

00:19:55   but you know there's a I don't say [TS]

00:19:59   there's just a comfort to a template [TS]

00:20:01   like that but there is a familiar part [TS]

00:20:03   about it and I think that people really [TS]

00:20:04   respond to that shape of a story and i'm [TS]

00:20:09   not saying that you need to use that [TS]

00:20:10   story for everything but you can work [TS]

00:20:13   against it in some ways that provide a [TS]

00:20:14   really nice conflict i don't think this [TS]

00:20:16   did a good enough job of creating that [TS]

00:20:18   tension to me it felt like a very much a [TS]

00:20:21   set up as a diametrically like oh we [TS]

00:20:23   don't want to do that so we're gonna try [TS]

00:20:24   to do just like different different [TS]

00:20:26   different at all these points and it [TS]

00:20:28   doesn't come together cohesively it's [TS]

00:20:29   very Superman is a problematic character [TS]

00:20:32   and maybe we'll get there but in so many [TS]

00:20:34   ways because he is so perfect [TS]

00:20:36   historically they're trying to make [TS]

00:20:37   trying to make it different to make the [TS]

00:20:40   shape of his story a little bit [TS]

00:20:41   different and and I like a lot of that [TS]

00:20:44   right and to John's point I think the [TS]

00:20:45   problem with Superman in particular when [TS]

00:20:47   you talk about you know he's talking [TS]

00:20:49   about getting at the comfort inn the [TS]

00:20:50   formula the problem Superman is he's [TS]

00:20:52   he's God right like he he's invulnerable [TS]

00:20:55   he's indestructible he can beat [TS]

00:20:57   everybody's got super strength you can [TS]

00:20:58   fight like he's got everything so don't [TS]

00:21:00   think his biggest problem is biggest [TS]

00:21:02   problem is not as powers biggest problem [TS]

00:21:03   is his personality because you need you [TS]

00:21:05   want you want to have internal conflict [TS]

00:21:08   you would think someone with those [TS]

00:21:09   powers would have inter like the actual [TS]

00:21:11   Jesus Christ had more internal conflict [TS]

00:21:13   Superman movies you know to make sure i [TS]

00:21:15   know and i think you're right i mean i [TS]

00:21:16   just think in with Batman or you know [TS]

00:21:19   iron man where it's like all right this [TS]

00:21:20   is a person who can get hurt and killed [TS]

00:21:22   I think you know you do want to see [TS]

00:21:23   internal conflict but there's also an [TS]

00:21:25   external part of it where Superman's [TS]

00:21:27   like Superman beats everything right [TS]

00:21:28   like Superman is just the trump card [TS]

00:21:30   well in in those in those previous [TS]

00:21:32   adaptations so often the Superman [TS]

00:21:34   paragon of virtue who always gets there [TS]

00:21:36   in the nick of time is different than [TS]

00:21:38   and I think this is this is a big point [TS]

00:21:41   that is the reason that a lot of super [TS]

00:21:44   diehard fans have railed against the [TS]

00:21:46   movie is the scale of destruction that [TS]

00:21:48   that the movie gets into we'll get to [TS]

00:21:50   that but we'll get to that but I want to [TS]

00:21:52   get a few more things on the origin [TS]

00:21:53   before we get off it for good one about [TS]

00:21:55   the the tooth the the JJ Abrams Star [TS]

00:21:57   Trek's the first to that be the first to [TS]

00:22:00   and only Jason Star Trek's are both [TS]

00:22:02   origin stories because the first one is [TS]

00:22:03   yeah here's how these characters come to [TS]

00:22:05   be and the second one is you know by the [TS]

00:22:07   end of the movie they're on their [TS]

00:22:07   five-year mission right it's just not a [TS]

00:22:09   retelling greatly never told it and the [TS]

00:22:11   difference is the differences that i [TS]

00:22:13   look forward to seeing the adventures of [TS]

00:22:17   the Star Trek Enterprise crew on their [TS]

00:22:19   five-year mission because I maybe that's [TS]

00:22:21   what I expect out of Star Trek or [TS]

00:22:22   there's enough moving parts but I feel [TS]

00:22:24   like they have there's so many [TS]

00:22:24   possibilities that can go to all sorts [TS]

00:22:26   of different worlds you can have [TS]

00:22:27   different characters be the focus you [TS]

00:22:28   can have different things happen you can [TS]

00:22:29   kill off characters who had some [TS]

00:22:31   ensemble cast whereas with a single [TS]

00:22:33   superhero movie you're not going to kill [TS]

00:22:35   them off because unless you would like [TS]

00:22:36   you're going to immediately bring them [TS]

00:22:38   back or something like that and he's [TS]

00:22:39   going to have some sort of villain and [TS]

00:22:40   it's going to be the world in crisis and [TS]

00:22:42   he's going to you know it's like I don't [TS]

00:22:44   want to see you Superman going to work [TS]

00:22:46   and doing this job and I would rather [TS]

00:22:47   see you around each bank robbers right [TS]

00:22:50   now that I was gonna say the same thing [TS]

00:22:52   John it which is maybe the reason that [TS]

00:22:53   they keep telling superhero origin [TS]

00:22:55   stories is that there aren't any other [TS]

00:22:56   good i mean i would like to believe [TS]

00:22:58   there are other good superhero stories [TS]

00:22:59   to tell [TS]

00:23:00   but maybe it's much more difficult i [TS]

00:23:02   mean that like spider-man 2 is an [TS]

00:23:04   example where there's more but I mean [TS]

00:23:05   there there are but it can't be it can't [TS]

00:23:07   be about the plot though it's like world [TS]

00:23:09   war two movies are not about world war [TS]

00:23:11   two there about the people who are in [TS]

00:23:12   world war two so it's super hero movies [TS]

00:23:14   have to be about the superhero person [TS]

00:23:17   dealing channel and personal issues with [TS]

00:23:19   the backdrop of [TS]

00:23:21   you know this thing this thing this that [TS]

00:23:22   spider-man 2 is such a great movie will [TS]

00:23:24   end in spider-man 2 and in intern is [TS]

00:23:27   like Superman to which he does the same [TS]

00:23:29   thing right there both cases they sort [TS]

00:23:30   of like I'm not going to be a hero [TS]

00:23:31   anymore right and I'm gonna spider-man [TS]

00:23:33   you know more hours right like Superman [TS]

00:23:36   does then Superman to as well as it [TS]

00:23:38   that's that that's the internal struggle [TS]

00:23:39   I mean it's also again it's becomes kind [TS]

00:23:41   of not exactly cliche but it is a trope [TS]

00:23:43   right of the superhero like no I'm [TS]

00:23:45   putting too many people in danger or [TS]

00:23:47   whatever I just going to be a normal [TS]

00:23:48   person as superintendent have that [TS]

00:23:50   problem this movie I want to stop for a [TS]

00:23:52   moment to talk about our sponsor yes [TS]

00:23:54   once again this is becoming a wonderful [TS]

00:23:56   trendy and uncomfortable as a sponsor [TS]

00:23:57   and this sponsor is a glue glue is an [TS]

00:24:04   intranet for your for your work your for [TS]

00:24:07   your place of employment that you'll [TS]

00:24:09   actually like I know you've heard about [TS]

00:24:11   they're a bunch of different services [TS]

00:24:13   that do things like you know corporate [TS]

00:24:16   blogs or internal calendars or like a [TS]

00:24:18   chat room or a twitter-like thing all [TS]

00:24:22   the wiki all these different kind of [TS]

00:24:24   things that you can get and set up for [TS]

00:24:25   your for your work equals all of those [TS]

00:24:29   things it is blogs and calendars and [TS]

00:24:31   file sharing and forums and micro blogs [TS]

00:24:33   and wiki's and all that stuff its social [TS]

00:24:35   you can comment on any kind of content [TS]

00:24:38   you can add mention your coworkers [TS]

00:24:40   you can follow content for updates so [TS]

00:24:42   it's like a whole social internet for [TS]

00:24:44   your work you can add on rooms little [TS]

00:24:47   mini glue is you create an entire like [TS]

00:24:50   igloo complex and have your own personal [TS]

00:24:52   igloo fortress of solitude [TS]

00:24:54   ah Superman tie-in fortress of solitude [TS]

00:24:57   anyone come on Dan you have to like that [TS]

00:25:00   i may have left slightly i will just ask [TS]

00:25:04   you know I like us having sponsors can [TS]

00:25:06   it be one of those things like when [TS]

00:25:08   you're in Little League and they put [TS]

00:25:09   their name on the gallows shirts and the [TS]

00:25:11   other sponsors name and software on the [TS]

00:25:12   back and then we all get this week [TS]

00:25:14   afterwards can yes we can sold already a [TS]

00:25:17   guy's a clue a clue software will will [TS]

00:25:20   be buying t-shirts for our softball team [TS]

00:25:21   and and so fortress of solitude many [TS]

00:25:24   clues [TS]

00:25:25   you don't have to be in Canada to use a [TS]

00:25:27   clue software is available everywhere [TS]

00:25:28   even where it's warm [TS]

00:25:30   these igloos won't melt super easy to [TS]

00:25:33   use [TS]

00:25:34   the whole thing's drag-and-drop this [TS]

00:25:36   responsive design Typekit fonts so it [TS]

00:25:38   looks really great [TS]

00:25:40   it's secure if you've got somebody in [TS]

00:25:42   your business [TS]

00:25:43   I've got a few in mind you say oh no we [TS]

00:25:46   can't use third-party apps insecure and [TS]

00:25:49   people read all our important stuff [TS]

00:25:50   enterprise-grade security so your stuff [TS]

00:25:54   we stay safe you can start using it [TS]

00:25:56   right away and here is a great thing [TS]

00:26:00   about a clue software it is absolutely [TS]

00:26:02   free to use for up to 10 people so [TS]

00:26:05   you've got a small workgroup you can [TS]

00:26:06   just use it go ahead and use it now and [TS]

00:26:08   then when you've got the like oversized [TS]

00:26:10   igloo you gotta bring in some more [TS]

00:26:11   blocks of ice you gotta clicks clear the [TS]

00:26:14   Moose out and get some more ice out and [TS]

00:26:16   build up even like a giant igloo or one [TS]

00:26:19   of those ice hotels like in Sweden [TS]

00:26:20   twelve dollars per person per for each [TS]

00:26:24   month for every extra person that you [TS]

00:26:25   get but it's all of your internet stuff [TS]

00:26:30   for your for your work and here's how [TS]

00:26:33   you get it you go to a very special URL [TS]

00:26:36   generated just for us i think with John [TS]

00:26:38   siracusa in mind go to igloo [TS]

00:26:41   software.com / Vader that's right if you [TS]

00:26:46   don't know how to spell Vader you are [TS]

00:26:48   listening to the wrong podcast igloo [TS]

00:26:51   software.com / Vader and you can start [TS]

00:26:54   building your a glue and Darth Vader's [TS]

00:26:57   igloo has a little top part and a little [TS]

00:26:59   bottom part of ice and then they come [TS]

00:27:00   together and he lives inside that is [TS]

00:27:03   black black ice [TS]

00:27:04   no it's white ice and he's the [TS]

00:27:06   black-clad guy sign outside white icing [TS]

00:27:10   means I'll ok very good [TS]

00:27:12   that's right that's that's it igloo [TS]

00:27:14   software.com / Vader to build Darth [TS]

00:27:17   Vader's igloo and your own personal [TS]

00:27:18   business a clip it's an interesting by [TS]

00:27:21   the way that this summer we got two [TS]

00:27:24   movies where a classic villain played [TS]

00:27:27   played by a very interesting actor from [TS]

00:27:29   about 30 years ago in the second movie [TS]

00:27:32   in a film series got replayed in a it in [TS]

00:27:36   a summer movie because Terran stamps [TS]

00:27:38   General Zod and Superman to is such a [TS]

00:27:41   great a great character i think it was [TS]

00:27:43   smart of them to put all the Krypton [TS]

00:27:46   stuff in one movie here [TS]

00:27:47   although it is kind of overstuffed and [TS]

00:27:50   it gives you a direct line between why [TS]

00:27:53   Superman was sent to earth and why [TS]

00:27:55   General Zod is angry and I think that's [TS]

00:27:56   what they tried to do in the original [TS]

00:27:57   superman and they ended up splitting it [TS]

00:27:59   into two movies but i like that that [TS]

00:28:01   they sort of like put it all in here and [TS]

00:28:03   and try to get out of the way I thought [TS]

00:28:05   that was interesting i do wonder if [TS]

00:28:07   people who are diehard Superman fans are [TS]

00:28:11   upset by some of the canonical changes [TS]

00:28:13   that are in here like lowest lame [TS]

00:28:16   figures out you know cause identity it's [TS]

00:28:20   the other direction she figures out from [TS]

00:28:22   his mysterious appearances and ends up [TS]

00:28:24   at his childhood home in Kansas I [TS]

00:28:27   thought that was interesting and made [TS]

00:28:29   Lois Lane a little more interesting [TS]

00:28:31   it's certainly not the canon of Superman [TS]

00:28:33   but one man or that were freaking out [TS]

00:28:35   but I thought it was good that might [TS]

00:28:36   have been my favorite part of the movie [TS]

00:28:37   because for ages i've been i've been [TS]

00:28:40   waiting for somebody to not just iterate [TS]

00:28:43   on Lois Lane being the same dumb broad [TS]

00:28:46   in the newsroom who she's appealing [TS]

00:28:49   surprise winner here eight amy adams did [TS]

00:28:51   not come across as a dummy and everyone [TS]

00:28:54   else can recognize faces though [TS]

00:28:56   enforceable that's true the entire what [TS]

00:28:58   we wanted [TS]

00:28:58   yeah that is I kept thinking when [TS]

00:29:00   watching this movie is so we have that [TS]

00:29:01   scene where where she goes up to the [TS]

00:29:03   Arctic and then we have guests cameos [TS]

00:29:05   from two different battlestar galactica [TS]

00:29:06   actors yeah yeahs America data and he'll [TS]

00:29:09   oh yeah and so I end so then you know we [TS]

00:29:13   haven't go on the ship and Amy Adam Lois [TS]

00:29:16   Lane follows them onto the ship and then [TS]

00:29:18   she gets shot by the like security [TS]

00:29:21   system and he has to save her and so I'm [TS]

00:29:23   sitting there the whole time thinking [TS]

00:29:24   like as we're doing the lead-up like [TS]

00:29:25   she's gonna find him in the ship and [TS]

00:29:27   what's he gonna say like I was like [TS]

00:29:29   maybe he'll tell her he's a reporter [TS]

00:29:30   from her and that's how we'll get the [TS]

00:29:32   Clark Kent ID and then when I you know [TS]

00:29:34   when when he's trying to heal her right [TS]

00:29:37   like he cauterizes the wound I think it [TS]

00:29:39   up so they're going well there's no way [TS]

00:29:41   she's not going to recognize him if he [TS]

00:29:44   ever shows up as Clark Kent right [TS]

00:29:46   because you're like two feet away from [TS]

00:29:48   this guy if he doesn't look that does [TS]

00:29:51   not wearing glasses or anything so he's [TS]

00:29:52   not going to fool you with that that's [TS]

00:29:54   part of the conceit of the hero of [TS]

00:29:56   mission of this entire show was that for [TS]

00:29:58   some reason we can't recognize that [TS]

00:29:59   money has it may be glamorous than like [TS]

00:30:01   this part vampire [TS]

00:30:02   this is the it's the there's the tick [TS]

00:30:03   character was a Clark Oppenheimer or [TS]

00:30:05   something worse the hypno glasses [TS]

00:30:07   yeah yeah so but the thing that i agree [TS]

00:30:10   i liked the lois lane tracking him down [TS]

00:30:12   part the the difficulty sort of feeds [TS]

00:30:15   back into that same comment I made [TS]

00:30:16   earlier where I think it robs us of a [TS]

00:30:19   little bit of the Clark Kent setup also [TS]

00:30:21   i will say this now because you know and [TS]

00:30:23   I realize this reaches the head towards [TS]

00:30:25   the end of the movie but is anyone else [TS]

00:30:26   really concerned that maybe like he [TS]

00:30:28   didn't actually go to college or have a [TS]

00:30:29   degree in journalism anything to get [TS]

00:30:31   hired [TS]

00:30:32   he's a fraud he's don't nobody checks [TS]

00:30:33   resume and he's very persuasive and very [TS]

00:30:36   soon as that stopped any blog i assumed [TS]

00:30:38   the lowest vouches for him and said well [TS]

00:30:40   that's that's why would people kept [TS]

00:30:42   saying but I'm like I don't know like [TS]

00:30:44   you feel like there's probably a lot of [TS]

00:30:46   reporters going hungry now because they [TS]

00:30:47   didn't even a way downhill there i'm [TS]

00:30:49   just saying they're given jobs away to [TS]

00:30:51   illegal aliens left and right now he [TS]

00:30:54   works you i want one more thing in the [TS]

00:30:56   origins before we leave it for good oh [TS]

00:30:57   yeah you already had one more time this [TS]

00:30:59   is my final think it's alright alright [TS]

00:31:02   so the the trailers really leaned on the [TS]

00:31:05   the origin story and like the seams with [TS]

00:31:08   kevin costner and the voice-over and all [TS]

00:31:10   that other stuff like that and as Dan [TS]

00:31:12   said the way they cut it together like [TS]

00:31:14   if you follow the traditional arc that's [TS]

00:31:16   fine and if you do it well it works [TS]

00:31:18   really well if you want to go against [TS]

00:31:20   that traditional story and riff on it [TS]

00:31:22   you need to be really good and they did [TS]

00:31:25   not successfully respond and I think it [TS]

00:31:27   undercut all the things i wanted to see [TS]

00:31:28   in the movie by chopping up the way they [TS]

00:31:30   did and I think they chopped it up the [TS]

00:31:31   way they did because they wanted to get [TS]

00:31:32   Amy Adams on screen as soon as possible [TS]

00:31:34   you can't have the whole first half of [TS]

00:31:36   the movie not feature Amy Adams pcs not [TS]

00:31:38   grown up yet and he doesn't meet her [TS]

00:31:39   because she's presently not the same [TS]

00:31:41   Tennyson some I think that Rob that [TS]

00:31:43   whole section of the movie of momentum [TS]

00:31:45   of force I did not like jumping forward [TS]

00:31:47   adult then remember when you were a kid [TS]

00:31:48   then remember your adult remember your [TS]

00:31:50   kid I wanted to because that you didn't [TS]

00:31:52   didn't work for me i would rather have [TS]

00:31:53   seen them go traditional chronological [TS]

00:31:55   he lands on the planet you don't give us [TS]

00:31:57   a like you don't do the baby holding a [TS]

00:31:58   car but just go through his is growing [TS]

00:32:01   up period as it as a gentle ramp into [TS]

00:32:04   because all those things were mostly [TS]

00:32:05   good with the kids felt alien he didn't [TS]

00:32:07   hand but the fact that we kept jumping [TS]

00:32:08   back and forth it was like I was [TS]

00:32:09   watching [TS]

00:32:09   two stories and they did not cut [TS]

00:32:11   together and it's actually not if I [TS]

00:32:12   could not agree more i cannot possibly [TS]

00:32:14   reward they were trying to do too many [TS]

00:32:16   things to do things as unconventionally [TS]

00:32:19   as they could and they were just doing [TS]

00:32:22   it to do it and not doing it because it [TS]

00:32:24   actually serve the story in the best way [TS]

00:32:26   to say something about the flashback [TS]

00:32:27   structure [TS]

00:32:28   yeah i think the problem with some of it [TS]

00:32:30   is the flashback is supposed to lend you [TS]

00:32:33   like I remember this time you're a kid [TS]

00:32:35   need this thing happened to that really [TS]

00:32:37   impacted you later my last it's like [TS]

00:32:38   lost they want to enter cut it like lost [TS]

00:32:40   but that doesn't yes right doesn't work [TS]

00:32:42   because the problem is that you already [TS]

00:32:44   know all like there's nothing surprising [TS]

00:32:46   and you have to do you have to say with [TS]

00:32:48   him in the journey like that right [TS]

00:32:50   talent chronological then you start to [TS]

00:32:51   identify with him and you feel like [TS]

00:32:53   you're the the alien kid and you [TS]

00:32:55   sympathize with him and like that's what [TS]

00:32:57   you need to do you don't need to go [TS]

00:32:59   oh but like lost oh by the way here is [TS]

00:33:01   this scene from the past that informs [TS]

00:33:02   the current behavior because i lost you [TS]

00:33:04   you in lost you care about the current [TS]

00:33:06   situation and in this story you need [TS]

00:33:08   people to care about your childhood and [TS]

00:33:10   what it was like you you know and it was [TS]

00:33:12   just like we didn't care that much about [TS]

00:33:14   him as an adult and we didn't need to be [TS]

00:33:15   informed of these things and we weren't [TS]

00:33:17   tied to the childhood story they were [TS]

00:33:18   always like flashbacks and we could have [TS]

00:33:20   gotten vignettes of the childhood stuff [TS]

00:33:22   and do it in order and and again i know [TS]

00:33:25   i find myself using a method of [TS]

00:33:28   argumentation that that seems like stuff [TS]

00:33:30   that I always complained about and tell [TS]

00:33:32   people they're idiots for for doing but [TS]

00:33:34   if they had just done it in order it [TS]

00:33:36   worked it worked so much better and and [TS]

00:33:39   trusting the build to work and yes okay [TS]

00:33:42   the story's been told seven different [TS]

00:33:43   times but there are different bits of [TS]

00:33:46   that story that you can tell in [TS]

00:33:48   different ways that achieves what they [TS]

00:33:50   were selling in the trailer a lot better [TS]

00:33:53   than we actually got executed the movie [TS]

00:33:55   yeah i heard that I like I mean I was [TS]

00:33:57   super psyched about seeing the trailer I [TS]

00:33:59   thought it was really well zone so I [TS]

00:34:01   came back from the movie and I I said [TS]

00:34:03   something on Twitter we're basically [TS]

00:34:04   said I was disappointed the movie and a [TS]

00:34:06   bunch of people who haven't seen it yet [TS]

00:34:08   because i saw this on the saturday i [TS]

00:34:09   think that came out said they were [TS]

00:34:12   really disappointed cuz i like the [TS]

00:34:13   trailer and I like the trailer 2 and my [TS]

00:34:15   take on it when i look back at that [TS]

00:34:16   trailer is they put the best things in [TS]

00:34:18   the movie in the trailer they did I mean [TS]

00:34:20   really good friend [TS]

00:34:21   I'm all kevin costner scenes were in the [TS]

00:34:23   trail yeah single right and they cut it [TS]

00:34:25   together really well and they have music [TS]

00:34:27   and that seemed where he says can I just [TS]

00:34:31   pretend to be your son and he says you [TS]

00:34:32   are my son [TS]

00:34:33   I mean that's a scene that there any [TS]

00:34:35   parents gonna look at and be like oh my [TS]

00:34:37   god it's like such a trailer that i [TS]

00:34:40   didn't her letter because there's like [TS]

00:34:42   you have been like a first time on [TS]

00:34:43   camera and you know they need to build [TS]

00:34:45   up they need to build up to that with [TS]

00:34:46   him and yeah I agree completely [TS]

00:34:49   it robbed it of the emotion because in [TS]

00:34:50   the trailer it does [TS]

00:34:52   he's got that little crack in his voice [TS]

00:34:53   and that sells you right there like it's [TS]

00:34:56   beautiful but they spent all of that [TS]

00:34:59   sympathetic currency all in the trailer [TS]

00:35:04   and you've got to have stuff that more [TS]

00:35:06   women making want to see the movie but [TS]

00:35:07   then you gotta have more [TS]

00:35:09   yeah you gotta go somewhere beyond that [TS]

00:35:11   in the movie itself or people go oh I [TS]

00:35:13   was in and by the way this is this is my [TS]

00:35:15   favorite that was my favorite travels [TS]

00:35:16   past year and my favorite part of the [TS]

00:35:18   trails were listing them was the one [TS]

00:35:19   where his mother says they'll kill him [TS]

00:35:21   and the father says how which is a great [TS]

00:35:24   line that's followed by the trailer if [TS]

00:35:26   the movie had seven more of those lines [TS]

00:35:28   surrounding that it would have been [TS]

00:35:29   better but just had the one line that I [TS]

00:35:30   heard before yeah that no they did this [TS]

00:35:32   so so we're talking about things that [TS]

00:35:34   would that work and they put the things [TS]

00:35:36   that worked in the trailer and and I [TS]

00:35:38   know that we people who really love this [TS]

00:35:40   movie and maybe love it on uncritically [TS]

00:35:42   and and just think it's the best will be [TS]

00:35:44   quite upset by the fact that we've [TS]

00:35:46   picked apart and complained about a lot [TS]

00:35:47   of things that are in the first part of [TS]

00:35:48   the movie [TS]

00:35:49   make no mistake i enjoyed watching the [TS]

00:35:51   first part of the movie and it got my [TS]

00:35:52   hopes up that this was going to be a [TS]

00:35:54   very good movie that solved a lot of the [TS]

00:35:55   Superman problems and then came the [TS]

00:35:58   second half of the movie which I gotta [TS]

00:35:59   say completely lost any goodwill I had [TS]

00:36:02   toward it and in the end made me I think [TS]

00:36:04   dislike it even more than i would have [TS]

00:36:06   if it had just been kind of pour from [TS]

00:36:10   the start and hadn't gotten my hopes up [TS]

00:36:12   i would just wave my hand like a this is [TS]

00:36:15   just crappy instantly got my hopes up [TS]

00:36:17   like yeah you know who they're mainly [TS]

00:36:18   just wanted right decisions they're [TS]

00:36:20   trying to work around a lot of problems [TS]

00:36:21   of Superman is a character trying to [TS]

00:36:23   tell the story in a different way you [TS]

00:36:25   know that they had those cool things [TS]

00:36:26   that were in the trailer that we're in [TS]

00:36:27   this in this movie you know it's not all [TS]

00:36:29   great but I'm encouraged by it and then [TS]

00:36:32   we get to the second half we get to [TS]

00:36:33   General Zod [TS]

00:36:34   coming to Earth and for me it for me it [TS]

00:36:39   goes off the rails and I want to talk [TS]

00:36:40   about General Zod for a little bit i [TS]

00:36:42   want to talk about michael shannon [TS]

00:36:43   Michael Shannon an interesting actor in [TS]

00:36:47   the scenes in on Krypton where he's [TS]

00:36:49   trying to talk and reason with people I [TS]

00:36:52   felt like he was having trouble getting [TS]

00:36:53   the words out I think he actually was I [TS]

00:36:56   think it's a terrible performance in [TS]

00:36:58   those scenes I think he's a bad he's [TS]

00:37:00   being a bad actor and I wondered why did [TS]

00:37:02   the world did they cast him for this job [TS]

00:37:04   is not being a bad actor have you seen [TS]

00:37:05   him on boardwalk empire [TS]

00:37:07   well I haven't if you if you've seen him [TS]

00:37:09   on Boardwalk Empire you would recognize [TS]

00:37:10   the performance because it's like a case [TS]

00:37:12   where their trade their traits of the [TS]

00:37:14   actor that come through in their [TS]

00:37:15   performances [TS]

00:37:16   it's sort of the opposite of meryl [TS]

00:37:17   streep i saw me that means sorority girl [TS]

00:37:19   in that in that viral video up might [TS]

00:37:23   what I was going to say though is that [TS]

00:37:24   at the end of the movie when he's kind [TS]

00:37:25   of a maniac and shouting a lot i like ah [TS]

00:37:28   that's why they cast him because he's [TS]

00:37:30   really good at being a menacing maniac [TS]

00:37:32   and shouting a lot but in the beach but [TS]

00:37:33   i think i think it's uh I would you put [TS]

00:37:36   this guy in charge of your military how [TS]

00:37:38   many things have you seen him in I'm [TS]

00:37:40   dying I'm dying right now iíve seen him [TS]

00:37:43   in this movie and in the thing where [TS]

00:37:44   he's the sorority girl and I like that a [TS]

00:37:45   lot better than this there was much [TS]

00:37:46   better performance if you had seen him [TS]

00:37:49   or you would know you've got to see him [TS]

00:37:51   take shelter you've got to see him in [TS]

00:37:52   mud that the thing the thing about [TS]

00:37:54   Michael Shannon is the reason they cast [TS]

00:37:56   him in what he was able to do in the [TS]

00:37:57   movie are totally different things [TS]

00:37:59   fair enough all i can say is somebody [TS]

00:38:01   who I'm not gonna I'm not gonna look at [TS]

00:38:03   the an actor's backstory and in order to [TS]

00:38:05   judge his performance in the movie and [TS]

00:38:07   this movie he was a disaster and I would [TS]

00:38:09   actually say when I was walking on the [TS]

00:38:10   movie it when my wife and I were talking [TS]

00:38:13   about it and and I said remember when we [TS]

00:38:16   were talking about how lucky the star [TS]

00:38:18   trek people were that they got Benedict [TS]

00:38:19   Cumberbatch because he did a really good [TS]

00:38:21   job [TS]

00:38:21   well this is what happens when you get [TS]

00:38:23   an actor who doesn't do a very good job [TS]

00:38:25   better which character the ad or the [TS]

00:38:27   dialogue because it's bad dialogue to I [TS]

00:38:29   think right i mean it's not always the [TS]

00:38:31   actors fault if they got miscast but [TS]

00:38:33   this performance doesn't work for me i [TS]

00:38:35   think it's i think it's awful i mean i [TS]

00:38:37   just i think the characters awful the [TS]

00:38:38   dialogue is awful and the performances [TS]

00:38:40   awful what what I'll say is i'm not i'm [TS]

00:38:43   not disagreeing with you that [TS]

00:38:44   that as a whole piece it doesn't work [TS]

00:38:46   what I'm getting at is that iíve I put [TS]

00:38:50   a whole lot more of it on the miscasting [TS]

00:38:52   miss framing side of things because [TS]

00:38:54   Michael Shannon is an actor who is the [TS]

00:38:57   king of loci and and the reason that I [TS]

00:39:00   site that other stuff that he's been in [TS]

00:39:01   is that them transporting him into this [TS]

00:39:05   movie in this role in theory under the [TS]

00:39:09   most i yield ideal circumstances [TS]

00:39:11   possible in theory he could absolutely [TS]

00:39:13   kill that role in theory but in [TS]

00:39:17   execution this is a guy who friend of [TS]

00:39:19   mine interviewed once and asked him if [TS]

00:39:21   he had gotten into blu-ray yet he was [TS]

00:39:22   like what's what's that sounds like some [TS]

00:39:24   kind of like Godzilla monster laser yeah [TS]

00:39:26   sort of laser a know he like he had lead [TS]

00:39:30   they had no idea what the guy was [TS]

00:39:31   talking about when you surround a guy [TS]

00:39:34   who is you know like a a hardcore [TS]

00:39:38   theater actor Loki dude is all about [TS]

00:39:41   character working process and all that [TS]

00:39:42   kind of stuff and not all of the green [TS]

00:39:44   screen motion-captured dot BS he allayed [TS]

00:39:50   they say it's more it's more not that [TS]

00:39:53   they put him out of his depth but that [TS]

00:39:54   they transplanted them into a world that [TS]

00:39:56   just didn't make sense to mesh him with [TS]

00:40:00   I mean if the the big the big thing is [TS]

00:40:02   this is the first time that he's done [TS]

00:40:04   something of this scale of the scope of [TS]

00:40:06   this filmmaking style and it would be it [TS]

00:40:11   would be like putting John Diehl good in [TS]

00:40:13   300 i would watch that movie i think it [TS]

00:40:15   makes a difference that is what what [TS]

00:40:17   other things you've seen even though [TS]

00:40:18   because jason has seen but Benedict [TS]

00:40:20   Cumberbatch in Sherlock right of things [TS]

00:40:22   and if you like i said if you see this [TS]

00:40:25   actor in his other roles he is like one [TS]

00:40:27   of those actors who has personality [TS]

00:40:29   characteristic can't help but show [TS]

00:40:30   through in the roles that like I said [TS]

00:40:32   it's the opposite of Meryl Streep who [TS]

00:40:33   appears to have no personality of her [TS]

00:40:35   own when she's in a role she totally [TS]

00:40:36   inhabits it right he and his thing and [TS]

00:40:39   the roles that he plays is simmering [TS]

00:40:42   repressed feelings that he tries to keep [TS]

00:40:45   down but that inevitably come out in a [TS]

00:40:47   burst of rage right that is that is [TS]

00:40:49   maybe it's his real personality but he [TS]

00:40:51   plays lots of roles like that and he [TS]

00:40:52   plays them very well like that's where [TS]

00:40:54   you started this the sorority girl was [TS]

00:40:56   it is a great example right where you [TS]

00:40:57   and [TS]

00:40:58   the beginning of the movie he's trying [TS]

00:40:59   to keep that stuff tamp down which may [TS]

00:41:01   not be appropriate for General Zod right [TS]

00:41:03   I but his weird personality during that [TS]

00:41:06   point that looks like bad acting is just [TS]

00:41:07   him doing that thing he does when it's [TS]

00:41:09   someone trying to keep it together when [TS]

00:41:11   they have just incredible raging at the [TS]

00:41:12   end of the movies when the rage comes [TS]

00:41:14   out I don't think that's the appropriate [TS]

00:41:15   character for General Zod but that's [TS]

00:41:19   what he was doing and in the movie and [TS]

00:41:21   if you would see in other roles i was [TS]

00:41:23   completely comfortable with him doing [TS]

00:41:24   that but I kept thinking is he the right [TS]

00:41:26   guy for this he's not maybe I'll take [TS]

00:41:27   enough he's not maybe menacing enough i [TS]

00:41:29   don't feel like he would be repressing I [TS]

00:41:31   feel like he would be more confident [TS]

00:41:32   because he's always like in his other [TS]

00:41:34   roles less confident and that's why he's [TS]

00:41:36   repressing this and that's not doesn't [TS]

00:41:37   fit with General Zod and everything so I [TS]

00:41:39   don't fault is acting I fought the [TS]

00:41:41   casting and yes of course the scripture [TS]

00:41:42   in the dialogue were not we're not [TS]

00:41:44   helping him I felt the haircut and the [TS]

00:41:46   goatee both of those i thought were not [TS]

00:41:49   scary [TS]

00:41:49   the girl the girl was really good though [TS]

00:41:51   I liked her oh yeah she was good evenin [TS]

00:41:53   yeah i should say I mean when we talk [TS]

00:41:55   about acting I mean you can never tell [TS]

00:41:56   what the movie so complicated thing that [TS]

00:41:59   I can say I don't like Michael Shannon [TS]

00:42:01   in this movie it may it may or may not [TS]

00:42:03   be his fault because it's a whole [TS]

00:42:05   confluence of things including the [TS]

00:42:06   casting an actor you know can only do so [TS]

00:42:08   much with apart if he was miscast he can [TS]

00:42:11   try his best and he it's still not [TS]

00:42:13   welcome across you know but but it [TS]

00:42:15   doesn't i can say this i think this is [TS]

00:42:17   one of the big not the biggest but one [TS]

00:42:18   of the big liabilities in this movie is [TS]

00:42:20   I don't think he's the right guy for [TS]

00:42:22   this part i'm not sure who is but I just [TS]

00:42:24   don't think he's the right guy I want to [TS]

00:42:25   flip this for one second and say that I [TS]

00:42:28   I thought I really thought Henry Cavill [TS]

00:42:32   was actually pretty good [TS]

00:42:33   I just didn't think they gave me [TS]

00:42:34   anything get do I know he was he was [TS]

00:42:36   good and if if he fit the role well it's [TS]

00:42:39   just again i don't think they give him [TS]

00:42:40   enough to do there's only three or four [TS]

00:42:42   points where he's got like so he's got [TS]

00:42:44   the scene it's interesting earlier than [TS]

00:42:45   later right here always got the scene in [TS]

00:42:47   the restaurant where you like defends [TS]

00:42:48   the waitress right then he walks away [TS]

00:42:50   and you've got the one seen I like to [TS]

00:42:53   sing with him at the very end where he's [TS]

00:42:54   talking to the general and you know he [TS]

00:42:57   has a little bit of personality there [TS]

00:42:58   and the scene where he's in the [TS]

00:42:59   interrogation room with a met with Lois [TS]

00:43:01   Lane also they're like little spots with [TS]

00:43:03   him because again we talked about this [TS]

00:43:05   earlier with the problem Superman being [TS]

00:43:06   like well he's you know if he's very [TS]

00:43:08   good e2 shoes is really boring but like [TS]

00:43:10   I thought [TS]

00:43:11   all was well cast he looks like looks [TS]

00:43:13   like the piano lesson one to squeeze in [TS]

00:43:15   the fence railing like that and yeah [TS]

00:43:17   that was great [TS]

00:43:17   looks like the adult actor and [TS]

00:43:19   everything just just a shortage of stuff [TS]

00:43:21   for them to do [TS]

00:43:22   yeah the problem with him and the [TS]

00:43:23   problem with a lot of this movie is this [TS]

00:43:25   sounds weird but like this one of the [TS]

00:43:26   first thing I seen in a long time I felt [TS]

00:43:27   like there was not enough script like [TS]

00:43:30   the gentlemen we have worked on the [TS]

00:43:32   graters because the words that were you [TS]

00:43:33   weren't always terrible some scenes were [TS]

00:43:35   hit something for mrs. Bigelow just [TS]

00:43:36   should be more script there i was [TS]

00:43:39   thinking of you while I was watching [TS]

00:43:41   this movie because there is a scene that [TS]

00:43:43   is very much like you described episode [TS]

00:43:45   one where characters are actually just [TS]

00:43:47   saying their motivations out loud for it [TS]

00:43:49   I i will do I i am i'm here to destroy [TS]

00:43:52   this world because then Krypton will [TS]

00:43:54   come back and that is what i want to do [TS]

00:43:56   so that is all I'm going to do that and [TS]

00:43:58   and know the results there's you're a [TS]

00:44:00   monster Zod and I will stop you [TS]

00:44:04   oh I am the unmovable force i am the [TS]

00:44:07   unmovable force that will move you do is [TS]

00:44:09   I did somebody leds x like zack snyder [TS]

00:44:12   rewrite parts of the script or what [TS]

00:44:13   happened here you let it burn half the [TS]

00:44:15   pages apparently let's talk about let's [TS]

00:44:17   talk about the fights they're too big [TS]

00:44:18   fights there's a fight that in a small [TS]

00:44:20   it was it only do I didn't say it was [TS]

00:44:23   either one giant fight or thousands of [TS]

00:44:25   smith that's oh ok now now they set [TS]

00:44:29   apart what are you talking about you [TS]

00:44:30   talking about the movable objects we [TS]

00:44:32   talk about zack snyder i did get the [TS]

00:44:34   sense that this was the equivalent of [TS]

00:44:36   somebody with to action figures just [TS]

00:44:37   kind of go and you know when i get each [TS]

00:44:39   other [TS]

00:44:40   oh that's great ungu save you lose me [TS]

00:44:44   you got to have the coconut you're [TS]

00:44:45   banging them together we get you I'm [TS]

00:44:47   gonna get you and then what happens when [TS]

00:44:48   you whack to action figures against each [TS]

00:44:50   other [TS]

00:44:50   nothing because they're just plastic and [TS]

00:44:53   nothing happens when you have a giant [TS]

00:44:54   special-effects budget so so everything [TS]

00:44:56   but so the fact that nothing happened [TS]

00:44:58   isn't the problem it's the property [TS]

00:44:59   damage [TS]

00:45:00   well it's it's there's two problems [TS]

00:45:02   first there's a a dramatic problem with [TS]

00:45:04   these fights which is you have to [TS]

00:45:06   invincible or or in the case of a [TS]

00:45:07   smallville battle 3i guess invincible [TS]

00:45:10   people and they they beat the crap out [TS]

00:45:12   of each other and buildings were damaged [TS]

00:45:16   whole cities are destroyed and we'll get [TS]

00:45:18   to that but but the boring part people [TS]

00:45:20   have some people when i said that this [TS]

00:45:22   movie was boring say what do you mean [TS]

00:45:24   there was all [TS]

00:45:24   action like you know people beating on [TS]

00:45:27   each other when literally you can't see [TS]

00:45:29   any effect where it's like Zod and [TS]

00:45:32   Superman go at it and they they go at it [TS]

00:45:34   so hard and they aren't bloodied they [TS]

00:45:36   are mean occasionally there they like [TS]

00:45:37   fall down and then they get up and kind [TS]

00:45:39   of shake their head but there's there's [TS]

00:45:40   no sense that that uh you know like a [TS]

00:45:43   video game there's like a little power [TS]

00:45:45   bar and the power bars going down there [TS]

00:45:47   is absolutely no sense that we're [TS]

00:45:49   progressing and so instead it's just [TS]

00:45:52   like I don't even know what i'm watching [TS]

00:45:53   this vid the to what end is this fight [TS]

00:45:55   happening able nobody asking for it [TS]

00:45:57   doesn't make sense because it's like all [TS]

00:45:59   right I punched him it didn't seem to do [TS]

00:46:01   anything but if I punch him harder maybe [TS]

00:46:04   that what not didn't do anything [TS]

00:46:06   let me try again what if i throw my like [TS]

00:46:09   it and there's a point where you feel [TS]

00:46:10   like they were just get really tired and [TS]

00:46:12   just be like alright let's just like [TS]

00:46:14   five minute break i guess they don't get [TS]

00:46:15   tired there's get bored but they have [TS]

00:46:17   like a tool that using this movie is you [TS]

00:46:18   just put the people Superman cares about [TS]

00:46:20   in peril like that's the usual move is [TS]

00:46:22   you know you get Lois Lane you get his [TS]

00:46:24   mother whatever and then something is [TS]

00:46:26   finally expected yeah Superman can't get [TS]

00:46:28   hurt right hand he saved you know [TS]

00:46:30   whoever ready I'm not see I mean that's [TS]

00:46:32   cheap ploy but at least that's something [TS]

00:46:33   but yet they're just hitting each other [TS]

00:46:35   and everything especially since suit [TS]

00:46:37   both of them seem motivated by anger as [TS]

00:46:39   if like if I just get angry or when I do [TS]

00:46:41   this it will have a different effect but [TS]

00:46:42   I don't see how you get away from the [TS]

00:46:44   property damage because that I think [TS]

00:46:46   undercuts to trans character yeah [TS]

00:46:48   in general and for the end for the [TS]

00:46:49   earlier part of this movie so so much [TS]

00:46:51   that it just right [TS]

00:46:52   hey there's a great a great review i [TS]

00:46:54   read this morning by a Scott Lynch the [TS]

00:46:56   fantasy author where he wrote a very [TS]

00:46:58   long review of man of steel and I think [TS]

00:47:00   he nailed this perfectly like you know [TS]

00:47:01   this is Superman right you're not going [TS]

00:47:03   to he would move the fight he would go [TS]

00:47:05   somewhere else where people would not [TS]

00:47:07   into a basket over the ocean or movement [TS]

00:47:10   he would not engage you know this is the [TS]

00:47:12   big point of contention that that I [TS]

00:47:14   think has more than any other element of [TS]

00:47:17   movie people tied up in knots one way or [TS]

00:47:20   another and the the reason that I i [TS]

00:47:24   mentioned to you Jason that I think I [TS]

00:47:26   think I came I came I ended up coming [TS]

00:47:28   down on the naco side of things which [TS]

00:47:30   are making a lot of assumptions about [TS]

00:47:32   Andy's opinion he said that it had [TS]

00:47:34   problems but that it was what a super [TS]

00:47:36   hero movie was supposed to be which it [TS]

00:47:38   as I said to my wife in the car driving [TS]

00:47:39   back from dinner tonight [TS]

00:47:41   this movie is so vastly inferior to the [TS]

00:47:44   Avengers but he's not here to defend it [TS]

00:47:46   so so go ahead myself so for me for me [TS]

00:47:50   the the thing that happens with these [TS]

00:47:52   fights that is so counter to what our [TS]

00:47:55   expectations should be Superman is that [TS]

00:47:57   no he does not move the fight to site B [TS]

00:48:00   that doesn't have a bunch of helpless [TS]

00:48:03   people in the way and so on and so forth [TS]

00:48:05   but the framing the movie sets it up [TS]

00:48:07   such that well Superman hasn't really [TS]

00:48:09   had a fight of this scale to deal with [TS]

00:48:12   and as unsatisfying as it is to a lot of [TS]

00:48:16   people some much more than others [TS]

00:48:19   I'm unsatisfying me that there there's [TS]

00:48:21   all this destruction all this death all [TS]

00:48:24   of these innocence that are dying not [TS]

00:48:27   near him or because of stuff that's [TS]

00:48:30   happening with him but because of him [TS]

00:48:31   because he's somehow not able to save [TS]

00:48:33   them to some extent but he's killing me [TS]

00:48:36   he's not saving them yet really killing [TS]

00:48:38   them life crashing by punching is odd [TS]

00:48:40   through a building filled with people [TS]

00:48:42   all those people in the building by this [TS]

00:48:44   this is the massive the massive [TS]

00:48:46   consequence moment that we haven't [TS]

00:48:48   gotten Superman origin stories [TS]

00:48:49   previously where he is he is not he's [TS]

00:48:53   witty he's willfully not paying [TS]

00:48:54   attention to the amount of destruction [TS]

00:48:56   to consolidate our movie that's the [TS]

00:48:58   movie you wanted to see but that's not [TS]

00:48:59   the movie they put on the screen because [TS]

00:49:00   I'm the screen they had him occasionally [TS]

00:49:02   saving some token person to remind you [TS]

00:49:03   that Superman and on the screen they [TS]

00:49:05   didn't have him looking at any point [TS]

00:49:07   saying oh my God look what I've done [TS]

00:49:08   I've killed half the city they like they [TS]

00:49:10   didn't do that they didn't they didn't [TS]

00:49:11   put it in the movie it's not that he [TS]

00:49:13   didn't take it to site B we never saw [TS]

00:49:15   him try to take it suicide or rear-end [TS]

00:49:18   Miller is rare consequently could never [TS]

00:49:21   write read it he never acted like that [TS]

00:49:22   but they like i said in the middle of [TS]

00:49:23   the fight they have him try to like save [TS]

00:49:25   some random person and they had like [TS]

00:49:26   that the Daily Planet people be in in [TS]

00:49:28   stupid peril briefly because the [TS]

00:49:30   smashing machine is coming and it was [TS]

00:49:31   like like what's the point of that some [TS]

00:49:34   and Superman going off to the side and [TS]

00:49:36   saving somebody depending on your bench [TS]

00:49:37   you're like okay [TS]

00:49:38   oh I wish she did more of that I wish he [TS]

00:49:40   had I wish she was saving people like [TS]

00:49:42   the ultimate so that's one way to go the [TS]

00:49:44   other way to go is that's not what I [TS]

00:49:46   think they should be doing here instead [TS]

00:49:48   they should have him losing control of [TS]

00:49:49   his power and destroying everybody [TS]

00:49:51   regretting it if he's gonna be [TS]

00:49:52   regretting it why is he taking time out [TS]

00:49:54   to save some talking character in the [TS]

00:49:55   middle of a fight because like they were [TS]

00:49:56   there working at odds I don't feel like [TS]

00:49:58   that the movie you want to see my sensei [TS]

00:50:00   was it wasn't on the screen it was in [TS]

00:50:02   your head and that's the thing is is [TS]

00:50:04   where i wanted that moment of regret to [TS]

00:50:06   come by the end of this movie as [TS]

00:50:09   supremely counterintuitive as it sounds [TS]

00:50:12   I feel like they're setting that up as [TS]

00:50:14   the inciting incident of the next movie [TS]

00:50:17   which i think is ridiculous and terrible [TS]

00:50:19   and the most corporate way to make [TS]

00:50:20   movies that makes this movie a failure [TS]

00:50:22   but they had their setup for the second [TS]

00:50:24   movie to be a residential insulation [TS]

00:50:26   start the dark knight where it's like oh [TS]

00:50:27   now they hate me but I had to do it to [TS]

00:50:29   save the same exact traditionally went [TS]

00:50:31   again there's no indication as an [TS]

00:50:32   international its rounded them it's not [TS]

00:50:34   in the movie no I I had a bunch of [TS]

00:50:36   people who mentioned this to me on [TS]

00:50:37   Twitter and I and I have to have to keep [TS]

00:50:39   saying it's not as long as it's not [TS]

00:50:41   there you can you can you imagine that [TS]

00:50:44   your was really shy and moving platen [TS]

00:50:46   tour he was trying to save people [TS]

00:50:48   whatever the fact is the to action [TS]

00:50:50   fingers bang up against each other and i [TS]

00:50:52   gotta say it I movie with this scale of [TS]

00:50:55   destruction the Avengers just like this [TS]

00:50:56   to any time you have building [TS]

00:50:58   destruction on this level in an urban [TS]

00:51:00   setting [TS]

00:51:01   it's gonna be 911 in people's minds [TS]

00:51:03   people know how many people died in [TS]

00:51:06   scenarios like this and although the [TS]

00:51:07   Avengers did a lot of property damage [TS]

00:51:09   this one goes I mean they essentially [TS]

00:51:11   nuke blocks of Metropolis in this movie [TS]

00:51:14   and what's worse is in the Avengers [TS]

00:51:16   they're trying to stop it in Superman he [TS]

00:51:19   is everything it and they're causing [TS]

00:51:22   whole buildings to collapse around them [TS]

00:51:24   and and I kept waiting for the it [TS]

00:51:26   wow this is really dark is there going [TS]

00:51:28   to be a payoff and in the end no it's [TS]

00:51:30   sort of like Superman will get your [TS]

00:51:31   feelings if he sees odd burn this little [TS]

00:51:34   family and so then he breaks his neck [TS]

00:51:35   which is a whole other story about [TS]

00:51:37   Superman killing somebody which is not a [TS]

00:51:40   Superman kind of thing to do i yeah that [TS]

00:51:42   doesn't bother me I oh I popularly as [TS]

00:51:44   much I mean it doesn't bother me nearly [TS]

00:51:46   as much as the as the thousands tens of [TS]

00:51:50   thousands of people who died in this [TS]

00:51:52   fight because these two guys couldn't [TS]

00:51:54   take it elsewhere i take it out ride [TS]

00:51:56   don't know [TS]

00:51:57   no fighting here because they just [TS]

00:51:58   decided to beat on each other and it [TS]

00:52:00   didn't matter that the humans were all [TS]

00:52:01   dying [TS]

00:52:02   them which completely undercut Superman [TS]

00:52:04   scary and that family that family up [TS]

00:52:06   against the wall by the way is the [TS]

00:52:07   second incident in recent memory in [TS]

00:52:09   which people in peril in a movie could [TS]

00:52:11   have been saved by casually walking in a [TS]

00:52:13   different direction [TS]

00:52:13   yeah other one being prometheus yes yeah [TS]

00:52:16   well this movie had a Prometheus moment [TS]

00:52:18   to work like that building is coming to [TS]

00:52:19   the Daily Planet building is coming down [TS]

00:52:21   Barry White go to the side and he does [TS]

00:52:23   finally go to the side but it was having [TS]

00:52:26   our exponent laser Ray's walk casually [TS]

00:52:28   to your left there was a little trouble [TS]

00:52:30   there it's like jump over the rubble you [TS]

00:52:31   could walk forward five steps then take [TS]

00:52:33   a left your fine said we could just [TS]

00:52:35   cowered together and hope the Superman [TS]

00:52:37   personalized here here's the thing i [TS]

00:52:38   gotta-i gotta talk about the death thing [TS]

00:52:39   for a minute maybe I'm jumping head but [TS]

00:52:41   i gotta bring this up because this [TS]

00:52:42   bothered me and not just from the [TS]

00:52:44   perspective of ok you know Superman he [TS]

00:52:46   doesn't kill people and that's kind of a [TS]

00:52:47   central tenet it bothers me for two [TS]

00:52:49   reasons one [TS]

00:52:50   well the main reason being it's unearned [TS]

00:52:53   there's nothing but all of the advice he [TS]

00:52:55   gets is don't tell anybody because like [TS]

00:52:58   the like try to hurt you write like his [TS]

00:53:00   dad keeps telling like maybe you should [TS]

00:53:01   reveal yourself and his dad told him [TS]

00:53:03   don't engage right he's already engaged [TS]

00:53:05   by this point he is literally through [TS]

00:53:06   and harder every single building he can [TS]

00:53:08   find a metropolis by that point he has [TS]

00:53:10   already overcome what should have been [TS]

00:53:12   the difficult decision which is do I [TS]

00:53:14   fight back right the the issue is not [TS]

00:53:16   his dad's not like don't kill people [TS]

00:53:18   because like you know we kind of get [TS]

00:53:20   that one it's ingrained is that is no [TS]

00:53:22   you don't need to you know you don't [TS]

00:53:24   need to get involved in a conflict right [TS]

00:53:26   you're better than that and that's the [TS]

00:53:27   Superman thing event you know like more [TS]

00:53:29   than anything is like you know you can [TS]

00:53:31   wipe the floor with you guys you know [TS]

00:53:33   don't you you are better than that and [TS]

00:53:35   so the killing felt it off handed and [TS]

00:53:39   dumb and like you know it to me [TS]

00:53:41   especially having and I mentioned this [TS]

00:53:43   in our superhero drafters that we [TS]

00:53:44   recorded some point you listen to me [TS]

00:53:47   listen to your future for our house that [TS]

00:53:49   I've been watching a lot of the justice [TS]

00:53:50   league cartoon and they deal with this [TS]

00:53:52   same issue in that and they deal with it [TS]

00:53:53   way better which is that Superman [TS]

00:53:57   eventually like in a in a parallel [TS]

00:53:59   universe [TS]

00:53:59   Superman kills Lex Luthor because he [TS]

00:54:01   gets to the point where is like I just [TS]

00:54:02   keep putting him away like it you know [TS]

00:54:04   in jail or whatever and it just keeps [TS]

00:54:06   getting out and beating the system and [TS]

00:54:07   sooner or later the riders made him do [TS]

00:54:10   it eventually [TS]

00:54:11   can I question the logic to which is up [TS]

00:54:13   until now these guys I i find it done [TS]

00:54:16   clear what really kills a Kryptonian [TS]

00:54:18   when they're on earth [TS]

00:54:20   I mean there's the gallon and who is [TS]

00:54:22   killed because she loses her mask and it [TS]

00:54:24   makes her all weird I thought that [TS]

00:54:25   didn't kill them or is it because she [TS]

00:54:27   got like hit when her mask was off and [TS]

00:54:30   then sod again these guys do so much [TS]

00:54:32   damage to each other except they do no [TS]

00:54:34   damage right well broken login and [TS]

00:54:37   MacGuffins but that's what does it but [TS]

00:54:39   then you could break his neck in the end [TS]

00:54:41   so that's the one thing that you can do [TS]

00:54:42   so when that happened I was like oh I [TS]

00:54:44   guess he can die by a broken neck in his [TS]

00:54:48   bones aren't invulnerable like the rest [TS]

00:54:50   of it and hated and solar charge up to [TS]

00:54:52   full capacity to use the battery analogy [TS]

00:54:55   yeah or the Ultraman Alice she is [TS]

00:54:57   outside the outside was involved but it [TS]

00:54:59   hadn't already gone through too well and [TS]

00:55:01   then we get back to my same problem that [TS]

00:55:02   i mentioned with russell crowe at the [TS]

00:55:04   top which is like this guy is like the [TS]

00:55:06   cream of the crop of the Warriors and [TS]

00:55:07   some kid who you know didn't even grow [TS]

00:55:10   up on Krypton in theory can be done but [TS]

00:55:12   he's got he was the natural birth and [TS]

00:55:14   he's not inferior like the machine [TS]

00:55:16   that's the whole you know it's what I [TS]

00:55:18   certainly not reach anything made by [TS]

00:55:20   machine is inferior to the natural one [TS]

00:55:23   so it's going to be the kid was born the [TS]

00:55:25   right way he's jesus and let's let's be [TS]

00:55:28   clear we haven't even talked to me even [TS]

00:55:29   barely know about that is your 23 years [TS]

00:55:31   old and that when he falls out of the [TS]

00:55:32   spaceship he doesn't have the ross and [TS]

00:55:34   sits in the church in front of the [TS]

00:55:35   stained-glass window of Jesus at [TS]

00:55:37   Gethsemane no less yeah oh yeah you know [TS]

00:55:40   hero with a thousand faces and [TS]

00:55:42   everything now Jason and I like like a [TS]

00:55:44   i-i-i interjected I think broken logic [TS]

00:55:48   and MacGuffins is is the way that all of [TS]

00:55:50   that stuff works they contradicted so [TS]

00:55:53   much of the stuff that they set up [TS]

00:55:54   themselves and stuff that they didn't [TS]

00:55:56   even set up terrific Lee clearly and it [TS]

00:55:58   just seemed like it was serving serving [TS]

00:56:01   a function of the plot that you know [TS]

00:56:03   well at this point so-and-so has to die [TS]

00:56:05   somehow so we're just gonna use a [TS]

00:56:08   science thing and harbor [TS]

00:56:10   yeah we're going to use the science [TS]

00:56:12   thing and the science thing is going to [TS]

00:56:14   make alien person go buy it and some [TS]

00:56:18   people were there was a great debate [TS]

00:56:20   when we talk about star trek into [TS]

00:56:21   darkness and a lot of people were [TS]

00:56:23   complaining about the plot holes and and [TS]

00:56:24   you know i'm sure there are plot holes [TS]

00:56:26   in this movie to a plenty but again if [TS]

00:56:29   you [TS]

00:56:29   enjoying it kind of doesn't matter and [TS]

00:56:31   my problem with this movie is that is [TS]

00:56:32   that I I didn't take that ride because i [TS]

00:56:36   kept getting jarred out of it by these [TS]

00:56:37   things that that frustrated me and they [TS]

00:56:39   weren't just about the plot imagination [TS]

00:56:41   is not working but it's like this isn't [TS]

00:56:43   explained i don't know what i'm watching [TS]

00:56:45   I don't know why what I mean it's like [TS]

00:56:47   there's I'm gonna watch them fight until [TS]

00:56:49   the movie decides they shouldn't fight [TS]

00:56:51   anymore and that's not i like some [TS]

00:56:54   internally consistent explanation for [TS]

00:56:56   why they're fighting and why the fight [TS]

00:56:59   ends and I you know I never really got [TS]

00:57:02   one that was satisfying to me that [TS]

00:57:04   incumbent combined with this this movie [TS]

00:57:05   wins an award for me for most number of [TS]

00:57:07   good actors squandered in crappy light [TS]

00:57:11   side roles get through north and [TS]

00:57:13   laurence fishburne's why is Lawrence but [TS]

00:57:15   I mean he's in there baby for another [TS]

00:57:17   movie it's so you see how much weight [TS]

00:57:18   he's put on and well yeah it doesn't [TS]

00:57:20   matter he still great actor but they [TS]

00:57:21   give him nothing to do richard schiff [TS]

00:57:23   gets like three scenes of light science [TS]

00:57:25   jargon look Lois Lane has like five [TS]

00:57:27   lines I mean it seems like nobody had a [TS]

00:57:28   lot of scenery chewing lines in fact it [TS]

00:57:31   seemed like the people the beginning of [TS]

00:57:32   the movie on Krypton had more lines with [TS]

00:57:33   their you know and that was not that was [TS]

00:57:35   in consequence well and then there's the [TS]

00:57:37   issue of I mean maybe it's because I'm a [TS]

00:57:39   writer and I'm a fan of good writing you [TS]

00:57:41   but like there's not if you if you like [TS]

00:57:43   what's your favorite quote from this [TS]

00:57:44   movie like the Batman movies i think [TS]

00:57:46   even have you know they have like good [TS]

00:57:47   lines right you know there's something [TS]

00:57:49   there's some humor there's you know some [TS]

00:57:51   jobs here in the area of humor was a [TS]

00:57:53   problem this yeah there's very little [TS]

00:57:55   humor there's very little in the way of [TS]

00:57:56   dialogue that you're like what [TS]

00:57:58   when there's more humor in a Nolan [TS]

00:58:00   Batman movies you know you're the most [TS]

00:58:03   damning thing I can say about this that [TS]

00:58:04   it just occurred to me but I was [TS]

00:58:06   thinking about the action scenes is that [TS]

00:58:08   the action scene in superman returns the [TS]

00:58:11   pretty much universally reviled earlier [TS]

00:58:14   Superman reboot where heat where he [TS]

00:58:16   saves that with the jetliner is going [TS]

00:58:19   down [TS]

00:58:19   oh yeah example that action scene was [TS]

00:58:22   better than any of the action scenes in [TS]

00:58:23   this movie green obviously not just [TS]

00:58:25   because it was interesting dynamically [TS]

00:58:27   and you know like a well-executed action [TS]

00:58:29   scene but because it showed Superman [TS]

00:58:31   like what they were trying to this movie [TS]

00:58:32   it showed Superman not quite sure how to [TS]

00:58:34   be Superman and show the difficulty of [TS]

00:58:36   so what you're Superman is still [TS]

00:58:38   actually not that easy to save people [TS]

00:58:39   within its physics is hard [TS]

00:58:41   which is supposed to be Superman [TS]

00:58:43   character so here is the i mean i know [TS]

00:58:45   there was it was supposed to be the post [TS]

00:58:46   Christopher Reeve Superman but it read [TS]

00:58:48   more like inexperienced Superman not [TS]

00:58:51   quite either knowing you're remembering [TS]

00:58:53   how to do the Superman thing and it's [TS]

00:58:55   actually pretty hard to do so you had [TS]

00:58:56   you had the same thing where like oh [TS]

00:58:58   this is Superman for the first time [TS]

00:58:59   deciding to be Superman fighting and not [TS]

00:59:01   knowing you're not supposed to knock [TS]

00:59:02   over buildings well here he was trying [TS]

00:59:03   to save people in a plane the plane is [TS]

00:59:05   coming apart he's gonna try to save [TS]

00:59:06   people he's not endanger his main [TS]

00:59:08   dangerous i'm gonna screw up this rescue [TS]

00:59:10   i'm not going to save these people and [TS]

00:59:12   when it seemed in superman returns is [TS]

00:59:14   better than your action scenes in this [TS]

00:59:15   movie there's real problems here credit [TS]

00:59:18   that's the death 10 first 10 minutes of [TS]

00:59:19   that movie is you know it goes downhill [TS]

00:59:21   pretty rapidly after that man i don't [TS]

00:59:24   get all the superman returns hate like I [TS]

00:59:25   don't like it that much when i saw it [TS]

00:59:28   the first time and it seems like I've [TS]

00:59:30   been trained to dislike it more it's a [TS]

00:59:31   little boring but I haven't I haven't [TS]

00:59:33   you know I haven't seen it again since i [TS]

00:59:35   saw the maybe it's uneven but like I [TS]

00:59:37   look at it more family now having seen [TS]

00:59:38   this one burn well plus it was a it was [TS]

00:59:41   an homage to those movies that I [TS]

00:59:43   remember from family from when I was a [TS]

00:59:45   kid and this is a reboot and and you [TS]

00:59:48   know an exact you know we're running out [TS]

00:59:50   of time but zack snyder is a problem [TS]

00:59:52   director he he [TS]

00:59:54   and I'll wewe didn't want to start a lot [TS]

00:59:56   for director you know he's pretty as a [TS]

00:59:58   menace [TS]

00:59:58   menace [TS]

01:00:00   must be stopped he's he died i hate to [TS]

01:00:03   say he's kinda like the superhero genre [TS]

01:00:06   is michael bay but he come on that's ok [TS]

01:00:10   mental I know it's that's harsh even for [TS]

01:00:12   me 300 was good right [TS]

01:00:14   I apologize to Michael Shannon's mom and [TS]

01:00:16   zack snyder's terrible things I've said [TS]

01:00:18   about them i would i would take the good [TS]

01:00:20   and the bad what you just said about [TS]

01:00:22   comparing michael bay because when he [TS]

01:00:23   excels at is the iconic look of stuff [TS]

01:00:26   but like what what Dan and John were [TS]

01:00:28   saying there's there's there's barely [TS]

01:00:30   any dialogue involved it's this is [TS]

01:00:33   iconic shot of lois lane and hear ya man [TS]

01:00:36   saving her and here's iconic shot of [TS]

01:00:37   this and all the framing of it he has [TS]

01:00:40   bad tendencies I mean he takes some some [TS]

01:00:42   he's working with some fairly [TS]

01:00:44   intelligent people like David Boyer and [TS]

01:00:46   John and christopher nolan and yet I get [TS]

01:00:49   this feeling that like when zack snyder [TS]

01:00:51   walks into the room everybody's IQ drops [TS]

01:00:54   20 points [TS]

01:00:54   she's got that weird thing where he's [TS]

01:00:56   got that weird instinct to say you know [TS]

01:00:59   what I'm going to try and put a [TS]

01:01:02   different spin on this but it's really [TS]

01:01:04   clumsy and ham fisted he's got because [TS]

01:01:07   like what watchman needed a little more [TS]

01:01:09   darkness at the end and Superman would [TS]

01:01:11   you know needed a little more and [TS]

01:01:13   lightness and subtext little less text I [TS]

01:01:15   mean and it was one of those things [TS]

01:01:16   where it's like every time he takes the [TS]

01:01:17   properties like not i don't think it's [TS]

01:01:19   quite good i gotta put my stamp on it or [TS]

01:01:21   whatever or he just thinks he's being [TS]

01:01:22   clever and he's not being clever like he [TS]

01:01:25   doesn't really really broadly and [TS]

01:01:27   obviously when he tries to throw a twist [TS]

01:01:29   in and it's just sort of like yeah you [TS]

01:01:32   didn't commit to that though you just [TS]

01:01:34   you changed like you you you held true [TS]

01:01:37   to the ideals for like ninety percent of [TS]

01:01:40   the thing I mean change ten percent but [TS]

01:01:42   you just like you flipped it like a [TS]

01:01:44   hundred eighty degrees thinking that [TS]

01:01:45   would make you clever and what it just [TS]

01:01:47   makes is disjoint it and it to your [TS]

01:01:49   point and the thing the thing that I [TS]

01:01:51   kept thinking was he decides to do less [TS]

01:01:54   is more in exactly the wrong places in a [TS]

01:01:58   person without them precisely the wrong [TS]

01:02:01   places where up it in the design [TS]

01:02:03   Superman exchange you know the euro [TS]

01:02:05   monster not going to stop you because [TS]

01:02:07   I'm Superman you know the the so corny [TS]

01:02:10   it wouldn't have been in the nineteen [TS]

01:02:11   fifties adventures of superman shirt [TS]

01:02:13   I'll chair they could have done less is [TS]

01:02:16   more with you know it with with with [TS]

01:02:19   giving Zod forwards to say and having [TS]

01:02:22   Superman's response just be no and then [TS]

01:02:24   they start hitting each other like [TS]

01:02:25   action figures again and that would have [TS]

01:02:27   played a whole lot better than now i am [TS]

01:02:29   going to declare my intent and act on my [TS]

01:02:31   intention ah but you need to have you [TS]

01:02:33   need to front-load the talking you need [TS]

01:02:35   to have talky talky talky so that when [TS]

01:02:37   the fighting comes everyone's motivation [TS]

01:02:38   and hang-ups and what's at stake is [TS]

01:02:40   clear because you did all the talking [TS]

01:02:42   before like the lowest relationship with [TS]

01:02:44   him like they didn't they said likes [TS]

01:02:45   five words to each other as in by the [TS]

01:02:47   end of the movie doesn't make any sense [TS]

01:02:48   you rolling my eyes at that point is [TS]

01:02:50   it's like uh I mean you're going over [TS]

01:02:52   the fact that shorthand that it's [TS]

01:02:53   superman and lois lane but like you [TS]

01:02:55   cannot earn that either [TS]

01:02:57   ya know she kisses everybody who [TS]

01:02:59   cauterizes her with her with us [TS]

01:03:01   here's your stuff for me is that their [TS]

01:03:05   version of giving us enough Clark was [TS]

01:03:08   not the version of giving us enough [TS]

01:03:09   Clark that I think makes it work [TS]

01:03:11   cohesively all around in the best way [TS]

01:03:14   where the and it's setting aside the [TS]

01:03:17   whole journalist thing and how that's [TS]

01:03:19   just kind of a grace note at the end the [TS]

01:03:22   duality of the character is just it's [TS]

01:03:26   it's explored in a different way then i [TS]

01:03:30   think is the reason that it's worked [TS]

01:03:32   archetypal e in seventeen thousand [TS]

01:03:34   different retellings of this origin [TS]

01:03:36   story or the last 75 years but i do like [TS]

01:03:39   that they tried something different and [TS]

01:03:40   I I don't that doesn't it doesn't bother [TS]

01:03:42   me i kinda give it I kind of get a kick [TS]

01:03:44   out of that [TS]

01:03:45   it's the it's the it's the noble failure [TS]

01:03:47   thing i think which is like yeah he [TS]

01:03:48   really tried he just did you know like [TS]

01:03:50   great a for effort but you didn't [TS]

01:03:52   execute well and and and again you know [TS]

01:03:55   I i don't think that my opinion is [TS]

01:03:57   exactly what Andy's was but in Nevada [TS]

01:03:59   not what we're well here's the thing is [TS]

01:04:01   where I agree with him where I very much [TS]

01:04:03   agree with him I wanted to sum up [TS]

01:04:05   everybody's taken the movie so why don't [TS]

01:04:06   we you you get the first crack [TS]

01:04:08   ok alright good and then everybody can [TS]

01:04:10   contradict me and talking on to go first [TS]

01:04:13   it's our show [TS]

01:04:14   Tresckow first in in the this is this is [TS]

01:04:18   how a superhero movie is made [TS]

01:04:19   ok littered with issues that we have [TS]

01:04:23   with the cannon alterations that were [TS]

01:04:25   made [TS]

01:04:26   issues with characterization issues with [TS]

01:04:28   massive opportunities just not taken to [TS]

01:04:31   flesh out different characters and all [TS]

01:04:33   this stuff but we will have a thousand [TS]

01:04:35   of these different microscopic arguments [TS]

01:04:38   about different elements of the film [TS]

01:04:39   then there are the bigger issues where [TS]

01:04:41   in my heart of hearts the way that [TS]

01:04:44   they've been setting this stuff up in [TS]

01:04:45   the way they talk about it in the press [TS]

01:04:47   yes i have imagined a beginning to the [TS]

01:04:49   second movie that probably should have [TS]

01:04:51   ended up at the end of this movie to [TS]

01:04:53   make it less like Superman is totally ok [TS]

01:04:56   that he murdered all of these thousands [TS]

01:04:58   of people and actually your comes out [TS]

01:05:01   and says what we're all saying here [TS]

01:05:02   that's not that exact that's exactly the [TS]

01:05:04   setup and that's exactly what they kind [TS]

01:05:06   of talked their way toward in addition [TS]

01:05:09   to you know green-lighting the next man [TS]

01:05:11   of steel movie and moving toward it very [TS]

01:05:12   quickly they're not doing separate [TS]

01:05:14   movies for other major DC heroes they're [TS]

01:05:16   going to do the Justice League movie and [TS]

01:05:17   let them split off of that for me the [TS]

01:05:20   reason that it works in terms of what [TS]

01:05:24   they're trying to setup and the stories [TS]

01:05:26   that they are trying to tell is setting [TS]

01:05:29   aside how personally invested i am with [TS]

01:05:31   all the stuff that I think they ripped [TS]

01:05:32   off or didn't do as well as a kid or [TS]

01:05:34   opportunities where well if I were [TS]

01:05:37   writing the movie premiere [TS]

01:05:39   I think they are setting themselves up [TS]

01:05:41   for placing these characters in the [TS]

01:05:44   modern day with consequences that for [TS]

01:05:47   the love of God if they do not do [TS]

01:05:49   something with the consequences of of of [TS]

01:05:52   kal-el doing what he does in the climax [TS]

01:05:56   of the movie you know they don't do that [TS]

01:05:58   well then then everything that I'm [TS]

01:06:00   saying all the support that I'm trying [TS]

01:06:01   to give them is totally lost [TS]

01:06:03   that's what you're saying is that you [TS]

01:06:04   you liked this movie as a strategy by [TS]

01:06:06   the movie studio but not actually I mean [TS]

01:06:09   you're I don't hear you saying you like [TS]

01:06:11   the movie you're saying you like how [TS]

01:06:13   they have strategically placed their [TS]

01:06:15   franchise it i like how they [TS]

01:06:17   strategically played the chess pieces so [TS]

01:06:19   that the overlong Krypton thing that [TS]

01:06:23   sets up the kind of space weird stuff [TS]

01:06:25   that Marvel's having to tack on at the [TS]

01:06:27   end and explain it yeah there's a bunch [TS]

01:06:28   of mystical wacky crap ok I i don't [TS]

01:06:31   disagree with all of that but I come [TS]

01:06:33   back to is this movie a good actually a [TS]

01:06:35   good movie or is it just a franchise [TS]

01:06:37   player then your mind is this a good [TS]

01:06:39   move [TS]

01:06:39   b or is it just an interesting strategic [TS]

01:06:41   move [TS]

01:06:42   I think it's a good movie with major [TS]

01:06:44   character flaws that i like despite [TS]

01:06:47   itself [TS]

01:06:48   all right you went first [TS]

01:06:52   now I'm conflicted I'm conflicted but i [TS]

01:06:54   liked it [TS]

01:06:55   all right Dan I don't have the same kind [TS]

01:06:58   of faith and maybe just cuz I i mean i-i [TS]

01:07:03   so much of it to me comes back to this [TS]

01:07:05   idea of in the word in ethnic the words [TS]

01:07:08   that I hear John you so many times it's [TS]

01:07:10   just not earned right like there's so [TS]

01:07:11   much stuff in here that's like you want [TS]

01:07:13   to do a paint-by-numbers Superman movie [TS]

01:07:16   and so you gotta check the boxes and you [TS]

01:07:18   got to have this in that he's gotta fly [TS]

01:07:19   he's gotta have Lois Lane he's gotta you [TS]

01:07:22   know be all good and everything you have [TS]

01:07:24   Krypton all that and it just it felt [TS]

01:07:27   like I wanted there to be a more [TS]

01:07:31   cohesive it wasn't just that I wanted to [TS]

01:07:34   eat the characters in the modern age I [TS]

01:07:35   wanted the storytelling to come into the [TS]

01:07:37   modern age because there is a way that [TS]

01:07:40   movies are made now and it's different [TS]

01:07:41   from the way that movies were made in [TS]

01:07:43   the seventies when they made their for [TS]

01:07:44   the christopher reeve Superman movies [TS]

01:07:46   and so you want to see the sort of [TS]

01:07:48   modern sensibilities in the same way [TS]

01:07:49   that I think we thought we'd like to see [TS]

01:07:50   casino royale as we mentioned earlier [TS]

01:07:52   was very much a james bond for the two [TS]

01:07:55   thousands rather than a James Bond from [TS]

01:07:57   the sixties or seventies there's a [TS]

01:07:58   different flavor there's a different [TS]

01:08:00   tone it's got to be grittier to a [TS]

01:08:02   certain extent because we you know [TS]

01:08:03   you've got such savvy movie watchers now [TS]

01:08:06   as opposed to 30 or 40 years ago and I [TS]

01:08:08   felt that it just didn't it executed [TS]

01:08:10   poorly on a lot of these and as much as [TS]

01:08:12   I really wanted to like a lot of the [TS]

01:08:15   ingredients it came together in a way [TS]

01:08:17   that just ended up being kind of [TS]

01:08:19   unsatisfactory I mean that my favorite [TS]

01:08:22   scenes from the movie are probably the [TS]

01:08:23   last two scenes in the movie which is [TS]

01:08:26   the the scene where he confronts the [TS]

01:08:28   journey blows up the drone right and [TS]

01:08:29   confronts the general because there's a [TS]

01:08:31   little humor there's little interplay I [TS]

01:08:33   liked the bit about like how do we know [TS]

01:08:34   you won't turn against us when I grew up [TS]

01:08:35   in Kansas you know like like there's [TS]

01:08:37   something funny about that and and I [TS]

01:08:40   appreciate it and even the fact that you [TS]

01:08:42   know it's weird to talk about the idea [TS]

01:08:43   of there being consequences down the [TS]

01:08:45   road when the last seen you see them in [TS]

01:08:46   the movie is like looking all gee shucks [TS]

01:08:49   you know like that [TS]

01:08:51   an eager to start at the daily planets [TS]

01:08:52   like no we just did not like i got a new [TS]

01:08:54   building interested yeah where was the [TS]

01:08:56   building and also where there's just a [TS]

01:08:58   lot of reporters who were killed and [TS]

01:08:59   maybe a little things they all were [TS]

01:09:01   crushed under rubble by the species is [TS]

01:09:03   there anything left to cover rebuilding [TS]

01:09:07   of the center of Metropolis yes and just [TS]

01:09:09   saying once you've discovered alien life [TS]

01:09:11   I think that pretty much takes over your [TS]

01:09:12   new cycle for a while so I don't know I [TS]

01:09:15   just [TS]

01:09:15   there's a lot of good ingredients here I [TS]

01:09:16   liked Henry Cavill i wanted i wanted [TS]

01:09:18   more i wanted there to be in I think [TS]

01:09:20   John nailed it like there's no there's [TS]

01:09:22   no writing like I think you condense it [TS]

01:09:24   down it's like what a [TS]

01:09:25   two-and-a-half-hour movie there's [TS]

01:09:26   probably less than an hour dialogue is [TS]

01:09:28   my guess yeah i think this movie could [TS]

01:09:29   be much better if it was a half an hour [TS]

01:09:31   shorter and I know people say that a lot [TS]

01:09:33   but I feel like this is a movie where I [TS]

01:09:34   could take I could literally take the [TS]

01:09:36   footage that's on the screen and just [TS]

01:09:38   cut it clip hearts out and make it a [TS]

01:09:41   better movie or rearrange it 4-2 all its [TS]

01:09:44   there's too much things go on we didn't [TS]

01:09:47   say I mean things go on way too long [TS]

01:09:49   even even if you do like the destruction [TS]

01:09:52   fights they don't need to be as long as [TS]

01:09:54   they are it's that scene where after [TS]

01:09:56   they you know throw fly the plane into [TS]

01:09:58   the thing and they're like we want it's [TS]

01:09:59   over and then general zod gets up and [TS]

01:10:01   you're like really we're going to do [TS]

01:10:03   more then there's like another 20 [TS]

01:10:04   minutes of them bashing each other and [TS]

01:10:06   it's like already seen this guy's like [TS]

01:10:09   cut like a few times now Dan you said [TS]

01:10:11   something about a gradient I that's one [TS]

01:10:15   way to go i don't think these movies [TS]

01:10:18   must be gritty I think that this is [TS]

01:10:20   trying to remake the magic of the Nolan [TS]

01:10:24   Batman series because I mean I think one [TS]

01:10:26   of the best superhero movies in the last [TS]

01:10:28   five or ten years is Iron Man which is [TS]

01:10:32   very sunny and funny and doesn't take [TS]

01:10:36   itself too seriously and in many ways I [TS]

01:10:38   mean I've 75 and I like a good example I [TS]

01:10:41   like Iron Man better than the dark night [TS]

01:10:43   they came out the same summer I thought [TS]

01:10:45   iron man was better and it was light I [TS]

01:10:47   don't think you have to go dark and you [TS]

01:10:50   know it's a different kind of Superman [TS]

01:10:51   story to tell and maybe it was wise of [TS]

01:10:53   them to mix it up i did like that they [TS]

01:10:55   took it in a different direction i'm not [TS]

01:10:56   sure i mean those Christopher Reeve [TS]

01:10:59   movies were so light and sunny and funny [TS]

01:11:01   that maybe they needed to do something [TS]

01:11:02   different for [TS]

01:11:03   fear of not being accused of just [TS]

01:11:05   ripping those off well and I think [TS]

01:11:07   you're right there with no one on board [TS]

01:11:08   they they want to capitalize especially [TS]

01:11:10   are going to do a justice league thing [TS]

01:11:12   that there is a certain continuity of [TS]

01:11:15   tone they are for DC vs marvel right [TS]

01:11:18   like Marvel's got it stone like Marvel's [TS]

01:11:20   done an awesome job of establishing what [TS]

01:11:22   is a marvel superhero movie write [TS]

01:11:24   anything the biggest problem is that [TS]

01:11:26   Superman's groundwork was already late [TS]

01:11:28   for it by what they did in the batman [TS]

01:11:30   trilogy and they had to somehow put them [TS]

01:11:33   in the same world not to mention what [TS]

01:11:36   they didn't green lantern which really [TS]

01:11:37   if you just think about pass through [TS]

01:11:38   that really tie together [TS]

01:11:40   apparently they're pretending Green [TS]

01:11:42   Lantern didn't even why don't forget [TS]

01:11:44   that taping it so the the you're right [TS]

01:11:47   and there's that differentiation of [TS]

01:11:48   product to get to what my sense was [TS]

01:11:50   saying about product strategy is if [TS]

01:11:52   Marvel is gone with this doesn't make me [TS]

01:11:54   sound like more of a marketing service [TS]

01:11:56   to well no I'm just mean that that is an [TS]

01:11:58   aspect this is big business to it's not [TS]

01:12:00   just art is commerce but and if Marvel [TS]

01:12:02   is going with the jon favreau joss [TS]

01:12:05   whedon shane black kind of kind of tone [TS]

01:12:09   of these movies on one level you know [TS]

01:12:12   you might say a DC and Warner Brothers [TS]

01:12:15   you might say well we need to we [TS]

01:12:16   organize stick around let's go with that [TS]

01:12:18   let's let's provide an alternative [TS]

01:12:21   I'm just saying that when dad says you [TS]

01:12:23   sort of have to get have to be AI and [TS]

01:12:26   reserved for stronger nothing too but [TS]

01:12:28   they chose to well it's got a its the [TS]

01:12:30   gritty part is less than 10 min less [TS]

01:12:32   important than the the contemporary part [TS]

01:12:34   right it's got a family your modern [TS]

01:12:35   sensibilities can be the jokey funny [TS]

01:12:37   stuff that they do in the Marvel side [TS]

01:12:39   because it's very much you know you're [TS]

01:12:40   just weed no you know style but you know [TS]

01:12:43   there's a difference between you [TS]

01:12:44   couldn't do the movie the way you did ya [TS]

01:12:46   years ago modernity of this movie is one [TS]

01:12:48   of the things I like about it i like a [TS]

01:12:49   great ride to try to make it it's coming [TS]

01:12:51   in over the RSS feeds Jason I know I [TS]

01:12:54   you're a monster dan that's uh John [TS]

01:12:58   siracusa you know if we've sort of [TS]

01:13:01   gotten your vibe but i wonder if you [TS]

01:13:03   want to give us just a little overview [TS]

01:13:04   and final thoughts i think people get [TS]

01:13:07   thrown off by my vibe is if you remember [TS]

01:13:08   the avengers movie I was I [TS]

01:13:10   at various times defending the movie but [TS]

01:13:12   the night when we asked graded at the [TS]

01:13:14   end I gave it a see which I still stand [TS]

01:13:16   by and this looking at this movie [TS]

01:13:18   comparing it to the Avengers and star [TS]

01:13:19   trek I think it makes a nice continuum [TS]

01:13:22   so the Avengers i could not really take [TS]

01:13:25   seriously a lot of the Marvel movies i [TS]

01:13:26   have trouble taking seriously and not [TS]

01:13:29   taking them seriously allows me to enjoy [TS]

01:13:31   the stupid fun and the joss whedon lines [TS]

01:13:34   in the ridiculousness without being [TS]

01:13:35   bothered about the other parts of it so [TS]

01:13:36   that's like don't take seriously but [TS]

01:13:38   it's fun [TS]

01:13:38   Star Trek I is fun and have fun watching [TS]

01:13:42   it and it also lets me take it seriously [TS]

01:13:45   a little bit like I get wrapped up in a [TS]

01:13:46   little bit i start to feel for the [TS]

01:13:48   characters or whatever and that's that's [TS]

01:13:49   you know that's the idea you want to you [TS]

01:13:52   want the movies I want the movie to make [TS]

01:13:53   me take it seriously but also be fun if [TS]

01:13:55   it's appropriate for the movie or [TS]

01:13:57   whatever but I really needs to pull me [TS]

01:13:58   and i can't i can't keep me at a [TS]

01:14:00   distance with ridiculous Marvel things [TS]

01:14:02   that I'm just not really that into and [TS]

01:14:04   you know whatever right [TS]

01:14:05   this movie from especially for the [TS]

01:14:07   trailers the trail just movie we're [TS]

01:14:08   making this was going to be my most [TS]

01:14:09   anticipated movie of the contrast it to [TS]

01:14:11   the star trek where the trailers the [TS]

01:14:13   gate did nothing for me I was like all [TS]

01:14:15   this is not going to be that great so [TS]

01:14:16   that was a pleasant surprise this one I [TS]

01:14:18   was going in with expectations because [TS]

01:14:20   those trailers really connected with me [TS]

01:14:21   and I didn't take this movie [TS]

01:14:24   seriously more seriously than Avengers [TS]

01:14:26   but then it wasn't fun and me taking it [TS]

01:14:29   seriously just brought like it [TS]

01:14:31   disappointed me like you're trying to [TS]

01:14:33   bring me in but you're failing to do [TS]

01:14:34   with this not enough script you're not [TS]

01:14:35   pulling off the traditional story arc [TS]

01:14:37   you're not pulling off the much more [TS]

01:14:39   advanced moves of chopping it up it's [TS]

01:14:41   just not working for me and you're [TS]

01:14:43   making me take it seriously and is [TS]

01:14:44   actually not that much in the movies for [TS]

01:14:46   me to be light and enjoyable like if I [TS]

01:14:48   had disengaged from it and so that put a [TS]

01:14:51   bad taste in my mouth but I give it I'm [TS]

01:14:53   almost like giving it a better grade [TS]

01:14:55   than Avengers like a b-minus or [TS]

01:14:57   something because like Avengers has kept [TS]

01:15:00   me at a distance and and it was like fun [TS]

01:15:02   i watch it again with my son it's like [TS]

01:15:03   it's there it's whatever you know where [TS]

01:15:05   is it okay like is it because adventures [TS]

01:15:07   was kind of a series of meetings [TS]

01:15:09   well I mean like it's just I'd it's not [TS]

01:15:11   it's so clearly like the characters are [TS]

01:15:14   so ridiculous there's no real rules in [TS]

01:15:16   the universe the individual movies for [TS]

01:15:18   the I I felt like at this point I feel [TS]

01:15:20   like I enjoyed watching for more than [TS]

01:15:22   you [TS]

01:15:22   move just like sacrilegious war was just [TS]

01:15:24   for indoor was just ridiculous it was [TS]

01:15:26   like it was like one of those terrible [TS]

01:15:27   shows that Dan watches and undersea WRA [TS]

01:15:29   that's my doorway like like John i will [TS]

01:15:33   say i think fundamentally the more [TS]

01:15:35   superheroes you add to a movie [TS]

01:15:37   the more level of ridiculousness you're [TS]

01:15:39   going to get because you know this movie [TS]

01:15:40   and has a 1 don't match up you know you [TS]

01:15:43   can't you can only see birds in the same [TS]

01:15:44   then movie what's up but so this one [TS]

01:15:46   like it i could have done something and [TS]

01:15:49   i saw it was going for and the fact that [TS]

01:15:51   it didn't attain it left me more [TS]

01:15:53   disappointed but I think if i had to [TS]

01:15:54   grade the movie and take myself out of [TS]

01:15:56   it i'm going to say that because this [TS]

01:15:59   movie actually made me want to take it [TS]

01:16:01   seriously i have to have to give it a [TS]

01:16:03   higher grade than i would like it's real [TS]

01:16:05   it's like the trailer did that job [TS]

01:16:07   well no the movie itself like the [TS]

01:16:09   Krypton thing I was at first it was just [TS]

01:16:11   it just didn't it just didn't pull it [TS]

01:16:12   off and like and speaking of likely what [TS]

01:16:14   they're going to do with the character [TS]

01:16:14   in the movie that we imagine that was [TS]

01:16:16   there is kind of like imagining the quad [TS]

01:16:17   movie the hell yeah I'm existing that's [TS]

01:16:20   what imagining this movie where he's [TS]

01:16:21   conflicted like they did so many things [TS]

01:16:23   to undercut by thinking of the scene [TS]

01:16:25   where like he's he's conflicted as a [TS]

01:16:27   child and doesn't know how to act and [TS]

01:16:28   doesn't know what he's going to do any [TS]

01:16:29   harm and even as an adult he still [TS]

01:16:31   hiding does want to reveal his powers is [TS]

01:16:33   conflicted about the death of his father [TS]

01:16:34   and everything that but then he allows [TS]

01:16:36   himself to be captured and constantly [TS]

01:16:38   strolls up to the thing and says the [TS]

01:16:39   military guy you don't control me you [TS]

01:16:40   never will where does this wherewithal [TS]

01:16:42   come from how do you switch on the dime [TS]

01:16:43   to say I'm conflicted i don't know what [TS]

01:16:45   a real life LOL i've got a totally a [TS]

01:16:47   plan i'm going to be Christopher he's 43 [TS]

01:16:48   seconds up i'm conflicted the end of [TS]

01:16:50   found Christopher Reeves again it's it [TS]

01:16:51   they didn't commit to the story that [TS]

01:16:54   could have done and the execution was [TS]

01:16:56   poor but the there are good parts of [TS]

01:16:59   this movie [TS]

01:17:00   yes it ended up that don't have to do [TS]

01:17:02   with the script and not like that have [TS]

01:17:03   to do with just vegetables i really love [TS]

01:17:05   the actor the guy who played Superman I [TS]

01:17:07   really loved him I thought he was great [TS]

01:17:08   he just was given nothing to do and he [TS]

01:17:10   was trapped in this movie that made him [TS]

01:17:12   do weird things that were contradictory [TS]

01:17:13   didn't come to anything [TS]

01:17:15   there you go so what we've learned is [TS]

01:17:16   that parts of this movie parts of this [TS]

01:17:19   movie not involving the script for good [TS]

01:17:20   and that it was a good business [TS]

01:17:22   calculation by the movie studio you know [TS]

01:17:25   what I said earlier i'll stick by which [TS]

01:17:27   is I think that the Avengers is a much [TS]

01:17:29   better movie than this in a sense that I [TS]

01:17:31   think the Avengers succeeds as a movie [TS]

01:17:32   and even though we can argue about how [TS]

01:17:36   why it succeeds and at what level it [TS]

01:17:37   succeeds I can watch that and i have [TS]

01:17:40   watched it several times since and I [TS]

01:17:42   enjoy what I'm watching and have a good [TS]

01:17:45   time [TS]

01:17:45   where's this movie doesn't that just [TS]

01:17:47   made me mad because this movie had those [TS]

01:17:49   good things that made a promising and [TS]

01:17:51   then in the end I felt like it [TS]

01:17:53   squandered it and it went back to be [TS]

01:17:54   bashing the bashing the action figures [TS]

01:17:57   against each other and honestly I was [TS]

01:17:59   wavering on the movie before all the [TS]

01:18:01   fight scenes and the fight scenes [TS]

01:18:02   murdered it for me because the fight [TS]

01:18:04   scenes were let in [TS]

01:18:05   they were boring they showed none of the [TS]

01:18:09   nuance and promise and interest that we [TS]

01:18:12   got in those better scenes and better [TS]

01:18:15   visuals that happened earlier and were [TS]

01:18:17   left with you know Zack Snyder and his [TS]

01:18:20   action figures and people in these [TS]

01:18:22   collapsing buildings dying all over the [TS]

01:18:25   city and I'm sorry you can't ignore that [TS]

01:18:28   like it didn't happen and and for [TS]

01:18:31   whatever reason i don't blame the [TS]

01:18:33   Avengers for all of the collapsed [TS]

01:18:35   buildings in the Avengers ago I can't [TS]

01:18:37   seriously either like now whatever it's [TS]

01:18:39   silly it's the Avengers there's a god [TS]

01:18:41   there with a hammer come on they're [TS]

01:18:43   desperately trying to stop the dollar [TS]

01:18:45   and they have felt that Superman was [TS]

01:18:46   trying to stop the destruction he was [TS]

01:18:48   just fighting a guy so for me it this [TS]

01:18:51   movie is is interesting because it tried [TS]

01:18:55   more stuff than the Avengers maybe in [TS]

01:18:58   some ways and did some really [TS]

01:18:59   interesting things but in the end it [TS]

01:19:01   lost me and it made me dislike the movie [TS]

01:19:03   even though there are things and I I'm i [TS]

01:19:06   feel like i'm coming along stronger [TS]

01:19:08   coming on stronger than I I maybe feel [TS]

01:19:09   about this I don't hate this movie but I [TS]

01:19:12   I'm my feelings are extremely mixed [TS]

01:19:15   about it because there are things that I [TS]

01:19:17   liked that sort of set me up to think [TS]

01:19:19   favorably for the movie and then I felt [TS]

01:19:21   so let down by the swing of what [TS]

01:19:24   happened at the end that it made me more [TS]

01:19:27   infuriated about it then if I had just [TS]

01:19:29   thought it was middling all the way [TS]

01:19:30   through his middling I could be like at [TS]

01:19:32   it was fine it was in substantial which [TS]

01:19:33   is sort of what you're saying about the [TS]

01:19:34   Avengers and you just go yeah it's fine [TS]

01:19:37   whereas this one was like got my hopes [TS]

01:19:38   up and dash them and I i hate when that [TS]

01:19:42   happens so that's that's that's my take [TS]

01:19:44   on it is I i think that Moises is [TS]

01:19:46   absolutely right about I think maybe [TS]

01:19:48   this movie [TS]

01:19:49   is weaker than it should be because of [TS]

01:19:52   the imaginations of how they wanted to [TS]

01:19:54   set up a franchise and I think that's [TS]

01:19:57   shameful because yeah you got to judge [TS]

01:20:00   the movie as a movie first and the fact [TS]

01:20:03   that Superman is therefore all this [TS]

01:20:05   destruction and then it's essentially [TS]

01:20:07   never dealt with again is problematic to [TS]

01:20:11   say the least so but but I don't want to [TS]

01:20:14   completely castigate the movie because I [TS]

01:20:16   think we've all said here there's some [TS]

01:20:17   really interesting good things about [TS]

01:20:19   this movie if somebody asks I've been [TS]

01:20:21   struggling with the old the whole hour [TS]

01:20:22   Siskel and Ebert thumbs-up thumbs-down [TS]

01:20:24   thing my friend jeff anderson who is a [TS]

01:20:26   movie critic gave it two and a half [TS]

01:20:28   stars which is essentially the Oh almost [TS]

01:20:31   a recommendation but not and I'm sort of [TS]

01:20:33   in that ballpark which is I'm sort of [TS]

01:20:34   like if you like superhero movies you [TS]

01:20:36   should see man of steel [TS]

01:20:38   I think there's interesting stuff in it [TS]

01:20:39   and it will certainly make you think [TS]

01:20:41   about what you just saw and you may not [TS]

01:20:43   like it but you might you might but if [TS]

01:20:46   you don't like it you still have a lot [TS]

01:20:47   to chew on and I think that's where I [TS]

01:20:49   end up on this movie is like I kinda [TS]

01:20:52   recommend that people who like this kind [TS]

01:20:53   of movie see it it's because I think [TS]

01:20:56   there's interesting stuff in it even if [TS]

01:20:57   I came out of it thinking sort of like i [TS]

01:20:59   did with inception actually thinking on [TS]

01:21:02   balance I thought about it for a week [TS]

01:21:03   and then I decided yeah i actually [TS]

01:21:05   didn't like it but I don't know need to [TS]

01:21:06   see inception come on ya know i don't [TS]

01:21:08   recommend people see inception but i do [TS]

01:21:10   recommend that that superhero movie fans [TS]

01:21:12   and and sci-fi movie fans go see Man of [TS]

01:21:14   Steel if you if you think you might like [TS]

01:21:15   this kind of movie because you'll [TS]

01:21:17   certainly have a lot to think about and [TS]

01:21:18   you may like about and talked about but [TS]

01:21:21   in the end that doesn't make me feel any [TS]

01:21:23   less sort of disappointed and let down [TS]

01:21:25   by it [TS]

01:21:25   why if if i can say touching on on kind [TS]

01:21:29   of the way that that john looked at it [TS]

01:21:31   as kind of as a movie and as you know as [TS]

01:21:33   compared to Avengers that the way that I [TS]

01:21:35   kind of think about it is as a movie i [TS]

01:21:39   think it I I think it actually who works [TS]

01:21:42   as a movie itself but separating out the [TS]

01:21:44   notion of it as a Superman origin story [TS]

01:21:47   movie that like that's where a lot of my [TS]

01:21:50   confliction comes from because i love a [TS]

01:21:53   lot of things they changed some of the [TS]

01:21:54   other stuff that they changed really [TS]

01:21:55   struck me is weird and because I'm so [TS]

01:21:58   used to [TS]

01:22:00   the consequences being self contained in [TS]

01:22:03   the same movie itself and not coming [TS]

01:22:05   after where end and i know you keep you [TS]

01:22:08   keep you keep hammering me on this but [TS]

01:22:11   but to the point of well you know why [TS]

01:22:13   wasn't that in this movie where the [TS]

01:22:15   consequences of all of those poor [TS]

01:22:17   independent contractors being murdered [TS]

01:22:18   in a new hope working on the Death Star [TS]

01:22:22   oh yeah well that's true what happened [TS]

01:22:24   to all of those people that the rebels [TS]

01:22:25   failed [TS]

01:22:26   there's no character that movie who is [TS]

01:22:27   known for saving the population those [TS]

01:22:29   people chose to work harder with me and [TS]

01:22:31   wonder the bad guy [TS]

01:22:33   yeah exactly just a couple bad life [TS]

01:22:35   decisions that the point the point is [TS]

01:22:37   more than consequences it's more to well [TS]

01:22:39   your expectation is that that has to be [TS]

01:22:42   self-contained story for me I says if [TS]

01:22:44   they were if there were scenes about the [TS]

01:22:46   regular Joe's working on the desktop is [TS]

01:22:47   actually something the robot chicken [TS]

01:22:49   episodes do really really well then you [TS]

01:22:51   then you're like oh yeah those people [TS]

01:22:52   thats really sad but the point is in [TS]

01:22:54   this movie I mean I'm sorry after nine [TS]

01:22:56   eleven you cannot show urban destruction [TS]

01:22:58   like this without having every single [TS]

01:22:59   person there know that there are [TS]

01:23:00   thousands of innocent people dying [TS]

01:23:02   you can't you can't do it but this is [TS]

01:23:04   actually one of the reasons i like I get [TS]

01:23:06   it will go off on a tangent here so we [TS]

01:23:08   shouldn't but other reasons i like the [TS]

01:23:09   movie cloverfield which is found footage [TS]

01:23:11   and it's problematic and I like that one [TS]

01:23:12   too [TS]

01:23:13   what I like Cloverfield for is that [TS]

01:23:14   clover field is the superposition of [TS]

01:23:16   Godzilla and 911 and it makes you [TS]

01:23:18   suddenly find it far more horrific but [TS]

01:23:21   you can't just have it happen never [TS]

01:23:23   comment on it have the scale of the [TS]

01:23:25   family in the Grand Central Station be [TS]

01:23:28   the only scale that you see that seems [TS]

01:23:30   to matter and then never address it [TS]

01:23:31   again it's just that you can't do it [TS]

01:23:34   well that's what I'm talking about when [TS]

01:23:35   you're tired when you have a movie [TS]

01:23:36   that's modern right like there is a [TS]

01:23:38   there is a contemporary sensibility in [TS]

01:23:40   terms of the context that we're watching [TS]

01:23:42   it in like them and when I say movies [TS]

01:23:44   were made in the seventies like they're [TS]

01:23:45   made in the 2007 true because we have a [TS]

01:23:47   different perspective I mean at that [TS]

01:23:48   point we were dealing with the aftermath [TS]

01:23:50   of Vietnam you know Watergate all those [TS]

01:23:52   things you take a different impression [TS]

01:23:55   of a movie It's Made in a different area [TS]

01:23:57   absorbs different things from those [TS]

01:23:59   what's going on around it and I think [TS]

01:24:01   you're right you can't you know maybe 50 [TS]

01:24:03   years from now somebody goes back and [TS]

01:24:04   watches man of steel they might not have [TS]

01:24:06   that same contextual you know [TS]

01:24:08   feeling to bring to it because they [TS]

01:24:10   didn't live through the arrow but it you [TS]

01:24:12   know on that stretching its or is like a [TS]

01:24:15   teen violence you have people crawling [TS]

01:24:16   out of right we'll be right there okay [TS]

01:24:18   whereas post-911 you get like in [TS]

01:24:20   Cloverfield with the building kind of [TS]

01:24:21   leans on the side of another building [TS]

01:24:23   and you actually have to show all the [TS]

01:24:24   people trying to escape from the Leaning [TS]

01:24:26   building because we know there are [TS]

01:24:27   people in there you can avoid it [TS]

01:24:29   well and and 2 to some extent and you [TS]

01:24:32   know I I'm sure this will be classified [TS]

01:24:34   as over-reaching i'm i'm i'm i'm [TS]

01:24:36   predicting my own downfall i really i [TS]

01:24:40   really feel like the brutality of it and [TS]

01:24:41   this is something that that that loads [TS]

01:24:44   of directors from like the seventies and [TS]

01:24:46   so on to have said about modern cinema [TS]

01:24:47   about how we are brutalizing the [TS]

01:24:49   audience with these movies I feel like [TS]

01:24:52   you can't you can't do a Superman movie [TS]

01:24:54   without some sort of big action-packed [TS]

01:24:57   fight and i'm not talking about the [TS]

01:24:59   exact context of the way that the fight [TS]

01:25:00   was was carried out i'm not saying you [TS]

01:25:02   have to do it with that kind of loss of [TS]

01:25:04   life and that kind of carelessness on [TS]

01:25:06   the part of a hero that is so well known [TS]

01:25:07   for always being there and always [TS]

01:25:09   pulling somebody out of the rubble and [TS]

01:25:11   oh he saved thousands of people i really [TS]

01:25:14   in my heart of hearts I felt like those [TS]

01:25:17   steaks were there purposely and yeah [TS]

01:25:22   it's awful and it's terrible and I i [TS]

01:25:24   wanted to use an explicit tag word to [TS]

01:25:27   describe it that that Superman doesn't [TS]

01:25:30   seem like he cares it lands with him [TS]

01:25:33   that it just happened and he's basically [TS]

01:25:36   ignored it but I almost wonder if that [TS]

01:25:39   wasn't part of the point of why they [TS]

01:25:42   handled the way that they did in in in [TS]

01:25:45   the way that they're changing things and [TS]

01:25:46   you can like that are not like it but [TS]

01:25:48   the way in which I appreciated it is [TS]

01:25:51   that that's something that is so rarely [TS]

01:25:54   addressed in these and certainly isn't [TS]

01:25:55   really in Avengers Avengers is basically [TS]

01:25:57   some of the super-powered people are [TS]

01:25:59   basically super military and their kind [TS]

01:26:02   of doing what they can and they're never [TS]

01:26:03   shown as causing something that might [TS]

01:26:06   have killed somebody but that doesn't [TS]

01:26:07   run that they didn't necessarily kill [TS]

01:26:09   someone and this is actually putting [TS]

01:26:11   more real-world steaks on what happens [TS]

01:26:13   when a man with the powers of a god is [TS]

01:26:16   flying around fighting a dude with the [TS]

01:26:17   same kind of destructive power extends [TS]

01:26:20   never it's never paid off again [TS]

01:26:22   I i would I think it could have whatever [TS]

01:26:24   squandered potential if if if we had [TS]

01:26:27   seen that at any point but I feel like [TS]

01:26:29   what's really happening here is not mean [TS]

01:26:32   we can rationalize it and and I feel [TS]

01:26:34   like that's sort of what you're doing i [TS]

01:26:35   look at this and think you know Zack [TS]

01:26:37   Snyder wasn't interested in any of the [TS]

01:26:38   consequences he just wanted stuff to [TS]

01:26:40   blow up he showed they showed Superman [TS]

01:26:42   after when he took out the drone he [TS]

01:26:43   seemed fine you see if not broken up [TS]

01:26:45   about killing all those people at all [TS]

01:26:46   just like dough taking out your drones [TS]

01:26:48   don't try to find me haha i seemed fine [TS]

01:26:50   you know like they showed him after you [TS]

01:26:52   know and then he goes and works in a [TS]

01:26:53   newspaper is good this is a character [TS]

01:26:55   that we're not used to having those [TS]

01:26:56   kinds of character flaws and that's why [TS]

01:26:58   it bothers us so it's not a flat stuff [TS]

01:27:00   on the character flaw in the movie it's [TS]

01:27:02   yeah he we don't see him not caring we [TS]

01:27:04   we see the movie not caring and that's [TS]

01:27:07   the difference for me I think we're [TS]

01:27:08   putting your you're putting your putting [TS]

01:27:10   it on all of the filmmakers that they [TS]

01:27:11   don't care where I me honestly like it's [TS]

01:27:15   an immensely crappy thing for Superman [TS]

01:27:18   to do and we read it is something that [TS]

01:27:19   Superman would never do [TS]

01:27:21   no it's not just that we read that is [TS]

01:27:22   like it movies either going to make you [TS]

01:27:24   are you supposed to sympathize and [TS]

01:27:25   identify with him or are you supposed to [TS]

01:27:27   condemn him for his callous destruction [TS]

01:27:30   and the movie does not frame movie [TS]

01:27:32   frames that is if we're supposed to be [TS]

01:27:33   always super and we we sympathize with [TS]

01:27:35   like it's up to the movie too [TS]

01:27:36   it's not just like a documentary right [TS]

01:27:38   it's up to the movie to arrange itself [TS]

01:27:40   to deliver whatever kind of thing is [TS]

01:27:43   trying to deliver here and it was [TS]

01:27:44   delivering was Superman is your guy he's [TS]

01:27:46   cool he's coming to his own now this is [TS]

01:27:48   Superman you remember that was the drone [TS]

01:27:49   seen its like oh yeah there is that [TS]

01:27:50   stupid i remember it's not [TS]

01:27:52   hey it's not like zero dark thirty we're [TS]

01:27:54   just like look at the stuff guys what do [TS]

01:27:56   you think of it it's not just laying it [TS]

01:27:58   out in front of me I don't know about [TS]

01:27:59   you guys but the crowds of your co now [TS]

01:28:00   the movie theater not like oh my god I [TS]

01:28:02   can't believe superhero murdered over [TS]

01:28:04   serious writing like this is that [TS]

01:28:06   happening are like super nice double [TS]

01:28:07   yeah so for me for me it's not that the [TS]

01:28:09   movie is is is commenting on whether [TS]

01:28:12   it's right or wrong for Superman to have [TS]

01:28:14   had this fight in this area with all [TS]

01:28:16   these people dying my point is the movie [TS]

01:28:18   isn't commenting on at all i think it's [TS]

01:28:20   just not there i think i think this [TS]

01:28:21   movie is taking is essentially a moral [TS]

01:28:25   at that point it's not like zero dark [TS]

01:28:26   thirty years amore more are not [TS]

01:28:28   commenting this movie is actually coming [TS]

01:28:30   at you and saying you should be okay [TS]

01:28:32   with this cause look at Superman he's [TS]

01:28:33   actually kind of cool [TS]

01:28:34   any guy and high took out that drone is [TS]

01:28:36   actually kind of hot isn't that great [TS]

01:28:37   guys that the movies coming out instinct [TS]

01:28:40   this is our view on what just happened [TS]

01:28:41   Superman we as moviemakers feel that [TS]

01:28:43   this was perfectly fine that there are [TS]

01:28:44   no consequences and here's the scene to [TS]

01:28:46   prove it right there not saying they're [TS]

01:28:49   not staying out of it like zero dark [TS]

01:28:50   thirty saying terrible things happened [TS]

01:28:52   it what do you guys think about you walk [TS]

01:28:54   out of the other movie theater like with [TS]

01:28:56   your eyes straight ahead like zombies [TS]

01:28:57   like oh my god and you don't know what [TS]

01:28:58   to think of it like they did this movie [TS]

01:29:00   does not stay out of it has a stance in [TS]

01:29:02   the stances it's fine no big deal [TS]

01:29:04   I i disagree i think the stance is judge [TS]

01:29:07   him judging for don't judge them for it [TS]

01:29:09   and that's that ties exactly to what [TS]

01:29:11   you're talking about people walking it [TS]

01:29:12   going hey that's great and you know [TS]

01:29:13   Superman be the bad guy and everything [TS]

01:29:15   and people say the same things about the [TS]

01:29:17   military doing different things as well [TS]

01:29:19   great at whatever cost fantastic they [TS]

01:29:21   got the bad guy [TS]

01:29:22   I didn't care about it none of those [TS]

01:29:23   10,000 people were my sister or cousin [TS]

01:29:25   alright I I think you're giving it too [TS]

01:29:27   much credit and I don't think the movie [TS]

01:29:28   is actually thinking anybody's going to [TS]

01:29:30   think that i think the movie is [TS]

01:29:31   expecting that people are going to be [TS]

01:29:33   like wow a lot of crap blew up and that [TS]

01:29:35   was kind of cool and then the guy died [TS]

01:29:36   and that was awesome and not thinking [TS]

01:29:39   about and I just don't think you can I [TS]

01:29:40   offer you can or should show skit [TS]

01:29:43   destruction on that scale while [TS]

01:29:45   pretending that it has no relevance to [TS]

01:29:47   what happens in the story plus I think [TS]

01:29:48   you're missing a lot of dramatic options [TS]

01:29:50   by not addressing it but it is what it [TS]

01:29:54   is i think we've we've beat we've we've [TS]

01:29:56   taken our own little city and destroyed [TS]

01:29:58   it into the weather hasn't prevented the [TS]

01:29:59   reins with our machine that makes the [TS]

01:30:02   gravity go up and down again which [TS]

01:30:03   actually that was kinda cool and weird [TS]

01:30:04   in a way this motion machine Jason [TS]

01:30:06   please [TS]

01:30:07   although I'm not quite sure how how you [TS]

01:30:08   use the smashing machine for [TS]

01:30:09   terraforming but whatever whatever this [TS]

01:30:11   is these are people this is technology [TS]

01:30:13   invented by people who destroyed the [TS]

01:30:15   core of the planet made their plan to [TS]

01:30:16   blow up so they're not their technology [TS]

01:30:18   is not solid its advanced but not [TS]

01:30:21   technologies fine as user are totally it [TS]

01:30:23   is it has kak anyway [TS]

01:30:26   again this is one of the things that I [TS]

01:30:27   credit a movie like this even when I say [TS]

01:30:30   that I don't like it is that if you can [TS]

01:30:32   talk about it in this level of detail [TS]

01:30:33   there's something to to be you gotta get [TS]

01:30:36   a credit for that because there are a [TS]

01:30:37   lot of movies out there that you just be [TS]

01:30:38   like I don't know what to say about this [TS]

01:30:40   movie good or bad especially bad so I [TS]

01:30:42   think that's to this movie's credit that [TS]

01:30:44   we can talk about it [TS]

01:30:45   well if I can almost get Jason all the [TS]

01:30:47   ban me from the incomparable permanently [TS]

01:30:49   don't know because i can so angry no I [TS]

01:30:51   invited nobody's definitely Anthony know [TS]

01:30:54   nobody expected that no I mean nobody's [TS]

01:30:56   been feeling uncomfortable i [TS]

01:30:58   specifically invited you want because [TS]

01:31:00   you you said that you had a you had a [TS]

01:31:01   more positive opinion on this and I [TS]

01:31:04   thought that would be kind of fun to [TS]

01:31:05   happen have it on there now your band [TS]

01:31:07   know so I want to thank my my guests for [TS]

01:31:10   discussing man of steel with me Dan [TS]

01:31:11   Morgan thank you again for being on [TS]

01:31:13   every podcast ever [TS]

01:31:15   it's a pleasure and i'll see you on the [TS]

01:31:16   next podcast yes of course John syracuse [TS]

01:31:19   oh you're a monster and I will stop you [TS]

01:31:21   think we can all agree that the real [TS]

01:31:23   winner is [TS]

01:31:24   after watching this movie and as JJ [TS]

01:31:25   Abrams who made to star trek movies that [TS]

01:31:28   were not terrible and he's all just [TS]

01:31:30   setting us up for the crushing crushing [TS]

01:31:31   blow there will be the terrible about [TS]

01:31:33   getting your whole step is right exactly [TS]

01:31:35   now is just setting us up to knock us [TS]

01:31:37   down [TS]

01:31:38   yeah yeah and y su are you are welcome [TS]

01:31:41   back sometime of all the time of my [TS]

01:31:43   choosing when I choose it carefully but [TS]

01:31:44   yes you are welcome back and I'm glad [TS]

01:31:46   that you brought your your perspective [TS]

01:31:48   this too [TS]

01:31:48   I appreciate it well thank you Jason [TS]

01:31:50   you're welcome on on the all-new all [TS]

01:31:52   different giant-sized that that we [TS]

01:31:54   rebooted just this week and in which in [TS]

01:31:57   which we talk about Superman stuff as [TS]

01:31:59   well but not nearly to the heat at which [TS]

01:32:02   wich we discussed it tonight so thank [TS]

01:32:04   thank you [TS]

01:32:05   by all means check out my successes [TS]

01:32:07   podcast giant-sized on five by five so [TS]

01:32:10   until next time thanks for listening to [TS]

01:32:13   be uncomfortable thanks again to the [TS]

01:32:14   panel i'm jason still signing off [TS]

01:32:17   everybody out there we'll see you next [TS]

01:32:19   time [TS]