Under the Radar

Under the Radar 102: Procrastiworking


00:00:00   welcome to under the radar a show about

00:00:02   independent iOS app development I'm mark

00:00:05   Worman and I'm David Smith

00:00:06   under-the-radar is never longer than 30

00:00:08   minutes so let's get started so I have a

00:00:12   problem and I think it's a problem that

00:00:14   I think you can probably help me with

00:00:15   Marco and I think it's something that we

00:00:18   need to talk about are you breaking up

00:00:20   with me no no nothing like that

00:00:22   but it's it's an area that I hear that

00:00:24   you're an expert in and I feel like I

00:00:26   just need some advice so this last week

00:00:29   I have been you know have dealing with

00:00:32   kind of a tricky situation broker

00:00:34   programmatically so I'm working on

00:00:36   workouts plus plus I have been we're

00:00:40   adding a whole bunch of new features to

00:00:41   it it's been it's really nice like

00:00:42   update that I've planned for the fee at

00:00:44   the end of this year and there's one one

00:00:47   thing left basically like I have this

00:00:49   one big task I need to undertake I need

00:00:51   to redesign the workout configuration

00:00:55   screen and it's kind of this big

00:00:56   multi-day task that I'm kind of honestly

00:00:59   scared about and the thing that I'm

00:01:01   struggling with is what is the best

00:01:03   methods that I can use to procrastinate

00:01:06   and not do it because that is

00:01:09   essentially what I have found myself

00:01:11   doing for the last week and you know it

00:01:15   all I thought would be interesting thing

00:01:17   to discuss because I started to keep

00:01:19   track of what things I should what about

00:01:23   will all the strategies that I have come

00:01:25   up with to avoid doing this task and so

00:01:28   far my list is 19 different things that

00:01:30   I have done in the last week to avoid

00:01:33   doing this and so hey this is a little

00:01:36   bit of comedy in that and you know I'm

00:01:38   sure you have your own and I think it

00:01:40   actually is interesting to unpack a

00:01:41   little bit of what the things that I do

00:01:44   are because the more I think about this

00:01:48   and like as from slightly self-aware

00:01:50   like the thing that is likely most most

00:01:53   likely to get me to actually you know

00:01:55   attack this problem and to solve it is

00:01:58   to recognize when I'm doing the things

00:02:01   that are avoidance and when I'm you know

00:02:03   and recognize them for what they are and

00:02:05   you know maybe sometimes that's okay but

00:02:07   the reality is like when I do some of

00:02:09   these things like I you know the first

00:02:11   one on my list is implementing random

00:02:13   small features I like I've just been

00:02:18   doing that random and like the whole

00:02:20   which is in somebody's is great like

00:02:22   I've added some really cool interesting

00:02:23   ideas to work out to plus plus but at

00:02:26   the same time I was like I'm just why am

00:02:27   i adding these random features that are

00:02:30   not core to you know the core experience

00:02:32   of the app when all I'm really doing is

00:02:35   just putting off this thing that is

00:02:37   absolutely essential that I cannot ship

00:02:39   this update without doing so anyway I

00:02:42   hear you're an expert in avoiding work

00:02:44   so you seem to you seem the right the

00:02:45   right person to talk to about this

00:02:47   problem I'm having

00:02:47   oh yeah it's like procrastinate

00:02:54   you do other things that make you feel

00:02:56   productive that maybe are productive but

00:03:01   are still not the thing you're really

00:03:02   supposed to be doing or like the one big

00:03:03   thing that you have to do like it's not

00:03:05   that thing but you're doing other things

00:03:07   that nevertheless are either useful or

00:03:10   valuable or productive in some other way

00:03:13   so that this happens to me all the time

00:03:16   it is really hard for me to motivate

00:03:20   myself to work on something I don't feel

00:03:21   like doing this it was always a problem

00:03:24   in my entire schooling when I was a kid

00:03:27   and you know like doing any any ever

00:03:29   motivate myself to do homework or

00:03:30   anything it was just like impossible for

00:03:32   me like it was like there was a brick

00:03:34   wall this is probably just my lack of

00:03:35   work ethic or being lazy or something

00:03:37   like that I don't think there's any kind

00:03:38   of clinical estimation for this but

00:03:40   basically just in making it impossible

00:03:43   for me to do things I don't feel like

00:03:45   doing or that I'm discouraged from doing

00:03:47   what I don't want to do so I've always

00:03:50   suffered from that or had problems with

00:03:52   that I have never found ways to manage

00:03:55   it and I probably never will find ways

00:03:57   to manage it if I had if I hadn't even

00:03:58   started by the time I'm now 35 and I

00:04:00   still figured out how to how to do

00:04:01   things I want to do I'm probably this

00:04:04   probably is not the kind of thing I'm

00:04:05   gonna get better at over time I just to

00:04:07   figure out ways to manage it and work

00:04:08   around it I - and facing large barriers

00:04:12   for me it's it's almost debilitating for

00:04:15   overcast development right now because

00:04:16   I'm very susceptible to convincing

00:04:20   myself that a crazy UI hack is worth

00:04:23   doing because it makes the app nicer or

00:04:26   achieve something I want

00:04:27   to achieve in the UI and so over time in

00:04:30   all of my apps I have always even though

00:04:33   I've told you and the listeners on this

00:04:35   show just stick with stock uikit stuff

00:04:38   don't hack it don't do crazy stuff don't

00:04:40   do crazy custom stuff if you don't have

00:04:41   to like you're better off sticking with

00:04:43   customs you're sticking with stock stuff

00:04:44   the reason I say that is because I keep

00:04:47   not following that advice myself and I

00:04:48   keep doing crazy UI stuff that takes

00:04:51   massive amounts of development time

00:04:54   creates huge numbers of weird little

00:04:56   bugs and animation bugs and everything

00:04:58   else that I don't have to spend more

00:04:59   development time on and then if Apple

00:05:02   changes some critical thing or I want to

00:05:04   adopt some new kind of style like you

00:05:07   know like moving from a collection of

00:05:08   you to it or from a table view to a

00:05:09   collection view or something like that

00:05:10   if I wanted to do something fancy or

00:05:12   something new or in the case of iOS 11

00:05:15   things like adopting drag and drop for

00:05:17   reordering that then requires me to

00:05:19   throw out my giant pile of hacks that I

00:05:21   did before and possibly create a new one

00:05:24   and so my iOS 11 update has been plagued

00:05:27   with massive amounts of messing with the

00:05:32   UI if first of all iOS 11 basically

00:05:35   seems to have rewritten UI tableview

00:05:37   like the way you eye table view works in

00:05:39   iOS 11 is so different especially in the

00:05:42   ways it manages sizing anime and

00:05:43   animations basically it broke all my

00:05:45   table views in in some way or another

00:05:46   and it broke all my custom cells it

00:05:49   broke everything about how I do it and

00:05:51   the only reason overcast runs on iOS 11

00:05:54   at all right now

00:05:55   in the in the public version is that and

00:05:59   when it's built against a previous SDK

00:06:01   like at the iOS 10 SDK it runs in a

00:06:04   compatibility mode and Apple seems to be

00:06:06   using mostly the old UI tableview code

00:06:09   for apps that are built against it which

00:06:10   is nice but I can't just keep building

00:06:13   my app against I guess the iOS 10 SDK

00:06:16   forever so I and I can't use iOS 11

00:06:19   features without building against a I

00:06:21   was 11 SDK so I have to basically in the

00:06:24   process of adopting some pretty basic

00:06:26   iOS 11 stuff I have had to rewrite many

00:06:29   of my core tableview logic and cells and

00:06:32   fuse and everything else and it turns

00:06:34   out podcast apps have a lot of those so

00:06:36   so it's it has been a massive

00:06:38   undertaking and it's incredibly

00:06:41   demoralizing because all I want to do is

00:06:44   work on like features like that's all I

00:06:47   want to do I have so many great ideas

00:06:48   for cool features I want to do and I'm

00:06:50   stuck working for months on and months

00:06:53   and months and months on animation

00:06:56   glitches and minor UI stuff that I that

00:07:00   all I'm doing is trying to restore it

00:07:01   from where it was before to the new iOS

00:07:03   11 version and and it is horrible so

00:07:07   instead of doing that I will hurt rather

00:07:09   in addition doing that really I have

00:07:11   also taken lots of time here to do other

00:07:15   things so I've been you know modifying

00:07:17   the UI to accommodate things people

00:07:19   actually want like the one tap play

00:07:21   thing you know that I didn't have to do

00:07:23   that in this update but I kind of shoved

00:07:24   it in because I needed a break to bring

00:07:27   all the incredibly tedious and

00:07:29   demoralizing tableview hacking so I did

00:07:31   that I have debated and tweaked and even

00:07:36   shared on Twitter the process of doing

00:07:38   lots of different UI details I have also

00:07:42   added you know a couple new settings and

00:07:45   fix that long-standing copy in the

00:07:48   search box crashing bug thanks to Brent

00:07:51   Simmons for that and so there have been

00:07:54   so many things that I've done in the

00:07:56   meantime I have set up a whole new

00:07:58   laptop I have currently I'm recording on

00:08:01   a laptop because I finally brought in my

00:08:03   iMac for repair because the warranty

00:08:05   expires in nine days and I might look at

00:08:08   it repaired so that's a whole review

00:08:10   like prepare and imact

00:08:12   prepare your main computer to go into

00:08:13   the Apple for a week then prepare

00:08:15   another computer to be your main

00:08:16   computer in the meet

00:08:18   I'm getting my dog a haircut this

00:08:19   afternoon my kitchen has never been

00:08:22   cleaner than it has been these last few

00:08:23   weeks because it's like any time there's

00:08:26   a speck of anything in the kitchen or

00:08:27   anything is out I clean it immediately

00:08:29   because that's something to do that

00:08:30   feels productive

00:08:31   I mean we've we've played a lot of story

00:08:34   that it's just a star to valley in our

00:08:36   house it has a few weeks that for some

00:08:39   reason peels productivity gain that

00:08:40   feels like work it's it's it is crazy

00:08:44   how much I have done in the in the app

00:08:47   in the last few months really and in the

00:08:50   last few weeks solely to keep myself

00:08:53   sane

00:08:54   while I have either been procrastinating

00:08:56   or been slogging through working on

00:08:59   these horrible UI things that I honestly

00:09:02   just do not want to do not want to work

00:09:04   on and I just cannot wait for it to be

00:09:06   done and shipped oh not to mention the

00:09:09   iPhone 10 and adopting to that all that

00:09:11   like all the in sets the and everything

00:09:13   like it turns out that while Apple has

00:09:17   made a pretty good system with the safe

00:09:20   area in sets and safe area guides and

00:09:22   everything like the API is actually

00:09:24   pretty complete and pretty rich for that

00:09:26   and I'm really happy working with it

00:09:28   when I do but if your app supports

00:09:31   landscape orientation at all you

00:09:34   probably have to work on every single

00:09:36   screen in the app to adopt 2.2 the

00:09:38   iPhone 10 any screen that supports

00:09:40   landscape on an iPhone probably needs

00:09:42   work not to mention every screen you

00:09:46   know in portrait orientation it needs at

00:09:48   least consideration if you have anything

00:09:50   beyond a very basic navigation bar and

00:09:53   tool bar stock set up anything else

00:09:55   where you put anything anywhere near an

00:09:57   edge or the top or the bottom or a

00:09:59   corner and by the way for for the past

00:10:03   decade stock iOS design has meant

00:10:05   putting things in corners now we have no

00:10:08   corners so that's a challenge it's not

00:10:11   like things there are so much like

00:10:14   tedious demoralizing work that I've had

00:10:17   to do just to catch up to iOS 11 and the

00:10:20   iPhone 10 that I'm just starving for

00:10:25   ways to procrastinate and and other

00:10:27   things to do that can that can kind of

00:10:29   give me a little like that a little

00:10:31   happy boost to having accomplished

00:10:32   something beyond just slogging away at

00:10:35   another safe area in sets thing or

00:10:37   another UI tableview animation bug

00:10:39   well that's somewhere that I can help

00:10:41   you cuz I have a long list of other

00:10:43   approaches that you haven't many things

00:10:45   to avoid work so like I there's

00:10:48   organizing your to-do list which is

00:10:51   great and then oh yeah I did that I did

00:10:53   that last night I I merged all the beta

00:10:54   feedback from multiple sources until one

00:10:56   document that I'm now working and then

00:10:59   the best part once you've done that

00:11:00   right is then you then you start to

00:11:02   question your to-do list method in the

00:11:04   first place yeah and if you're usually

00:11:06   using the right app for it you want

00:11:08   explore try out a few other apps or try

00:11:11   you know I think think about home what

00:11:13   if there's a different method or

00:11:14   approach so I did that I've done that

00:11:16   for a while I've gone through all my

00:11:18   emails I was supposed to respond to for

00:11:20   you know several weeks that have been

00:11:23   you know backing up in my inbox I

00:11:26   watched a few WWDC videos oh that's a

00:11:28   good one to you for a while which is

00:11:30   great it feels so productive I'd be in

00:11:31   there like there's code and be like I'm

00:11:33   learning I went field testing so like I

00:11:37   have a workout app right so like listen

00:11:38   go for a walk yeah I feel good for you

00:11:40   means I went for a walk

00:11:45   it was sleep trackers like oh I took a

00:11:48   nap to test my head I have to test this

00:11:49   app I mean perfect right thank that's

00:11:52   exactly this is this is the right

00:11:54   mindset that one run that we're on the

00:11:56   same wavelength here mm-hmm I've been

00:11:58   solving other people's problems like any

00:11:59   time so you have any time you mention

00:12:02   any kind of design issue with overcast

00:12:04   and like right there like you all right

00:12:05   let me let me get in there let me solve

00:12:07   other people's problems because their

00:12:09   problems are better than mine your

00:12:10   feedback has been awesome very detailed

00:12:11   yeah I got I got lots of attention

00:12:14   [Laughter]

00:12:17   you mean I surprised you I've heard at

00:12:19   least one or maybe two apps of course

00:12:21   why not that's a typical Tuesday you

00:12:25   know just like hey I have this idea why

00:12:26   don't I try it out hey great there goes

00:12:28   there goes half a day I decide you know

00:12:31   what I need to do to build this feature

00:12:33   like I'm just I'm just scared of it

00:12:35   because I don't know what its gonna look

00:12:36   like I haven't designed it yet so you

00:12:38   know you know I usually just designing

00:12:40   code but maybe what I should do is I

00:12:41   should design in paper and then I need

00:12:43   to explore different ways of you know

00:12:46   designing in paper and like finding the

00:12:48   right grid and they reach the right dot

00:12:49   grid that I need to within that I mean

00:12:51   you have to buy in a notebook maybe some

00:12:53   drafting pens yeah I mean I thought

00:12:55   about buying a note with problem is the

00:12:56   shipping and it doesn't feel productive

00:12:57   if you have to wait on shipping it's

00:12:58   much more productive if I can just spend

00:13:00   a while going through PDFs of like

00:13:02   printable guides and deciding which one

00:13:04   is exactly right

00:13:05   rather than just you know buying the

00:13:07   that the the pano book the new book that

00:13:10   the student guys came out with and then

00:13:12   I'd be done like that take five minutes

00:13:14   no no no I need to I need to really

00:13:16   research this and make sure I'm doing it

00:13:18   the right way

00:13:20   the ability I worked on other apps which

00:13:23   was fun naturally just like some of my

00:13:25   other apps that had been slightly

00:13:26   neglected I was like oh great I really

00:13:28   have I need to work on them instead and

00:13:31   CIA spent a while trying to find just

00:13:33   the right music to listen to while I was

00:13:36   trying to solve this problem because

00:13:37   clearly that's the problem that's

00:13:40   definitely the problem and now you have

00:13:41   to also research headphones streaming

00:13:43   services

00:13:46   maybe maybe get into the weird worlds of

00:13:48   like ASMR and other weird stuff that you

00:13:51   could be listening to instead of music

00:13:52   there's you know maybe it would help

00:13:56   maybe that would be me that's my problem

00:13:59   I'm just listening to the wrong music

00:14:00   you can maybe maybe work on your desk

00:14:02   set up like if you if you easily clean

00:14:04   your desk or that's that rearrange my

00:14:07   list that's number 17 in my office I

00:14:09   mean it is amazing how how you

00:14:12   I mean I will confess my office is not

00:14:14   really clean but I have moved stuff

00:14:16   around a lot like nothing is where it

00:14:19   was at the beginning of the week it's

00:14:20   not really clean it's just moved it's

00:14:22   just different I've gone upstairs and I

00:14:26   it's like you know what I need I need to

00:14:28   take a break in like make it maybe make

00:14:29   a cup of coffee get a snack maybe it's

00:14:31   like blood sugar issues like new that's

00:14:33   why I can't focus and work on this thing

00:14:35   I need to like you know have a nice

00:14:36   snack and need to get a little caffeine

00:14:38   I'll solve me even bout some hardware

00:14:41   like you got a new hard drive set up for

00:14:43   our media at home like you know you did

00:14:45   that I totally needed to do that they

00:14:49   have like it is amazing how creative you

00:14:52   can be when you're trying to avoid doing

00:14:54   something like all those things that I

00:14:57   just went through like are things that I

00:14:58   did and are like sort of productive like

00:15:02   sort of useful but in reality I'm not

00:15:06   really not really so isn't it's like

00:15:10   lots of movement not moving in the right

00:15:12   direction you know like it's so

00:15:16   frustrating when you've been when I

00:15:17   start to like actually like self reflect

00:15:20   about it and like see what I'm doing

00:15:21   because like I feel like when I was in

00:15:25   some ways I really appreciated when I

00:15:26   worked like I mean it feels like like a

00:15:30   lifetime ago but back when I worked for

00:15:32   him more tradition

00:15:33   programming job where I had a boss who

00:15:35   would tell me to do something even if I

00:15:39   didn't want to do it like I could just

00:15:40   sort of I could begrudgingly do it

00:15:42   because I kind of had to I could have I

00:15:45   mean not that I was like perfectly

00:15:47   productive in that environment and there

00:15:49   were many times that I still like found

00:15:51   things to do to avoid doing it but there

00:15:54   was certainly something powerful and

00:15:55   having somebody at the end of the day

00:15:57   being like so where you you know should

00:15:59   show me how far you've gotten on this

00:16:00   feature and if I didn't have anything to

00:16:03   show like that would reflect poorly on

00:16:06   me and I'd be embarrassed or you know

00:16:10   like feel like I hadn't been you know

00:16:12   sort of doing things right you know be

00:16:13   socially awkward and I mean I'll do a

00:16:15   lot to avoid being socially awkward or

00:16:17   avoid socially awkward situations and so

00:16:20   I would I could work could work on it

00:16:22   and I could get things done in that way

00:16:23   but without that without somebody who is

00:16:27   like I'm accountable to for building

00:16:29   something it is so easy to just come up

00:16:31   with a reason to to not and if it's like

00:16:35   I think the thing that is so rough I

00:16:36   think you mentioned this like it feels

00:16:37   like physics it's like from a physical

00:16:41   perspective like it actually feels good

00:16:42   because you're able to like get the like

00:16:45   I in certain think the awkward thing is

00:16:47   you probably I probably get just as much

00:16:49   like immediate satisfaction from you

00:16:52   know reorganizing my desk as I will in

00:16:56   two or three days when I finally

00:16:58   finished this big redesign and like

00:17:01   that's kind of awkward because it's not

00:17:04   like it grows proportionally with the

00:17:06   different with the difficulty of the

00:17:07   task if it did like in some ways I'd

00:17:10   have this like built-in incentive like

00:17:11   oh man once I solve this really big

00:17:13   problem I'll feel really really good but

00:17:16   the reality is least for myself is like

00:17:19   I'll probably feel just as productive

00:17:20   and just as a sense of accomplishment or

00:17:22   maybe like I'll feel 10% more than I

00:17:24   will for just moving stuff around on my

00:17:26   desk and then not remembering where

00:17:29   anything is we were sponsored this week

00:17:31   by Linode Linode has fast and powerful

00:17:34   hosting options that you can set up in

00:17:36   just seconds their tools are easy to

00:17:38   understand and they let you choose your

00:17:40   resource level and your Linux distro

00:17:42   giving you the power and flexibility

00:17:43   that you need and the node plans now

00:17:45   started just five dollars a month for a

00:17:46   Linux server

00:17:47   with one gig of ram in the Linode cloud

00:17:49   whether you're getting started with just

00:17:51   your first server or whether you're

00:17:53   deploying a complex system I think I

00:17:54   have something like 25 Lin ODEs

00:17:56   something like that Linode is the right

00:17:58   choice for you

00:18:00   Linda offers the fastest hardware and

00:18:02   network with fantastic customer support

00:18:04   behind at all it has never been easier

00:18:05   to launch a Linode cloud server and they

00:18:07   have lots of great tutorials if you like

00:18:09   even if you're not using Linode if you

00:18:11   want to know how to do something with

00:18:13   Linux system administration if you just

00:18:15   search the web for like you know a guide

00:18:17   to set up nginx doesn't like that

00:18:18   there's a very good chance Linn ODEs

00:18:20   support documents are gonna show up in

00:18:22   that search and that's gonna be the what

00:18:24   helps you out they make it so easy they

00:18:26   have great documentation great customer

00:18:27   support if you need it little guarantees

00:18:29   99.9% uptime for server availability and

00:18:32   once your server is up they keep it that

00:18:34   way a little it's great for tasks like

00:18:36   hosting databases running a mail server

00:18:38   running private get servers operating

00:18:40   entire powerful applications and so much

00:18:42   more so check it out today at lynda.com

00:18:45   slash radar they have fantastic pricing

00:18:48   options you can get a server with one

00:18:49   gigabyte up to 16 gigs of RAM for just

00:18:54   60 bucks a month across the board this

00:18:56   is twice the amount of RAM that you'll

00:18:58   get elsewhere once again if you sign up

00:19:00   at lynda.com slash radar you will

00:19:03   support our show and you'll get 20 hours

00:19:05   towards any Linode plan and with a 7 day

00:19:07   money-back guarantee there's nothing to

00:19:09   lose so go to lynda.com slash radar to

00:19:12   learn more sign up and take advantage of

00:19:14   that $20 credit or use promo code radar

00:19:16   2017 at checkout thank you so much to

00:19:19   Linode for supporting this show so I

00:19:23   think one thing you've touched on is

00:19:25   there's different value to how you spend

00:19:28   your time and there's there's value to

00:19:31   you and there's value to your customers

00:19:34   or your users or your apps and there

00:19:37   needs to be a balance of both really

00:19:39   like you know you mentioned like it

00:19:41   feels great to clean up your desk and

00:19:43   rearrange things or do things in other

00:19:46   apps but like so that in that way like

00:19:48   you are like you're kind of paying

00:19:51   yourself there you're doing something to

00:19:52   satisfy yourself but your customers are

00:19:55   getting nothing - very little from that

00:19:58   your customers and your apps

00:20:01   also need their needs to be satisfied

00:20:04   and so and and your business needs its

00:20:07   needs to be satisfied so ultimately the

00:20:10   the correct balance is both and like you

00:20:14   know like in my case I again I'm not

00:20:16   great at this but like I have tried to

00:20:17   do that myself where I am some of the

00:20:21   ways I'm procrastinating are adding

00:20:23   features to the app that people actually

00:20:24   want anyway

00:20:25   you know I'm not just doing the UI stuff

00:20:27   and also I'm having to do things like

00:20:30   that just to keep myself motivated to

00:20:33   keep going at all because otherwise I

00:20:35   would just fall into a big rut and just

00:20:37   not get anything done for months which

00:20:39   has happened before and will probably

00:20:41   happen again

00:20:41   but you know like in order to avoid

00:20:44   falling into a rut and and doing nothing

00:20:47   for a while I have to do things that are

00:20:49   interesting to me sometimes but I can do

00:20:51   like you know one of those a week and

00:20:54   then try to spend the rest of the week

00:20:56   doing what I actually have to do and I

00:20:58   feel like that's a good balance if I

00:21:00   only did things that weren't the big

00:21:03   thing I had to do then that big thing

00:21:05   wouldn't get done and then I would be

00:21:07   like you know doing these interesting

00:21:08   things that meet them you know things

00:21:09   like oh this would be a great time to

00:21:10   adopt you know rx Swift or unit testing

00:21:14   or some other thing that Casey likes and

00:21:15   like if I did that like that would be

00:21:18   nice that might be interesting that

00:21:20   might be satisfying that might bring

00:21:21   other benefits but if a major version of

00:21:24   my app is being delayed while I you know

00:21:27   mess around with other stuff like that

00:21:29   that's ultimately hurting the app and

00:21:32   that's not gonna make that big need go

00:21:34   away like you're still gonna need to do

00:21:36   the big thing you're still gonna need to

00:21:38   finally do the thing that you've been

00:21:39   putting off now you're doing it later

00:21:41   so there is a balance to be struck but

00:21:44   and it you can't it's like it's like you

00:21:47   know queue starvation or priority a

00:21:48   priority starvation like you can't

00:21:50   totally ignore the big thing you have to

00:21:52   eventually do it what do you think our

00:21:54   strategy is to actually finally just do

00:21:56   it yeah and I think that's the thing

00:22:00   that I've been thinking about I mean in

00:22:01   some ways that well this is the thing

00:22:02   that I love about having a podcast right

00:22:04   because it kind of like I started

00:22:06   working in earnest on this feature that

00:22:08   I haven't been I've been putting off

00:22:09   this morning like a couple hours ago

00:22:11   when I decided that we were going to

00:22:12   talk about it on the show

00:22:13   and partly it's like a not everyone as a

00:22:17   podcast that they can talk about and

00:22:18   then like feel bad if they hadn't

00:22:19   actually started but I think the key

00:22:22   thing that I was realizing is hey it's

00:22:25   like the importance of being honest with

00:22:26   ourselves because as much as I would

00:22:29   like to say like it's that you can't

00:22:31   just will yourself to be more productive

00:22:33   or be more motivated like maybe that

00:22:36   works for some people but certainly

00:22:38   doesn't work for me and from my

00:22:39   experience that's most talking to other

00:22:40   people like it is the kind of thing that

00:22:42   you all you can do is put yourself in an

00:22:46   environment where you are likely to be

00:22:47   motivated but you cannot like directly

00:22:50   affect motivation itself like it is

00:22:52   somewhat more ephemeral in that way and

00:22:54   so what you end up with are like what

00:22:57   are things that you can do to try and

00:22:58   make it make yourself more motivated or

00:23:01   at the very least to short-circuit the

00:23:04   things that are unmotivated you and so

00:23:07   like as an example of something that I

00:23:08   honestly have started to do that I think

00:23:10   has been very helpful in shortening the

00:23:12   amount of time I spend doing you know

00:23:15   they sort of these things that feel

00:23:16   productive but aren't actually working

00:23:18   towards my fundamental goals is to be

00:23:21   just trying to be more mindful of what

00:23:23   that when I'm doing that and so it's

00:23:26   like being aware of like it was actually

00:23:27   really productive for me to sit down and

00:23:30   you know make this list of 19 things

00:23:32   that I've done to avoid working on this

00:23:33   feature because now that it's a list

00:23:36   like it feels less scary and it feels

00:23:38   more like it just it's it's very this

00:23:41   concrete thing and I can choose to add

00:23:44   something to that list or I can work on

00:23:46   feet work on the actual feature and at a

00:23:49   certain point adding another thing to

00:23:50   the list feels worse than working on the

00:23:53   feature and so that's like a productive

00:23:56   thing to just be aware of when you're

00:23:58   doing it and not end up just spending

00:24:00   three days doing something you know work

00:24:02   adding random features to the app as an

00:24:05   avoidance mechanism and not be aware

00:24:07   that you're doing it and why you're

00:24:09   doing it because it's totally fine to do

00:24:11   those things and to be like you know I

00:24:12   don't want to work on that today I'm

00:24:13   going to do this other random thing

00:24:15   there but at least then it's a conscious

00:24:16   choice at least it's like a thing that

00:24:18   I'm choosing to do rather than sort of

00:24:21   doing letting my subs you know

00:24:23   subconscious avoid the work on its own

00:24:27   you know it's a knife if I make a choice

00:24:28   then at least that's slightly better and

00:24:32   I think to the other thing that I was a

00:24:33   strategy that I was thinking about when

00:24:36   I was trying to think of like wow look

00:24:37   what's the actual like you know DV end

00:24:39   advice to give at the end of this

00:24:40   episode and I think the other thing is

00:24:43   to try and understand why you don't want

00:24:46   to do it because a it's probably useful

00:24:51   to make sure like is this actually

00:24:53   something that I need to do like am i

00:24:54   avoiding it because I don't think it's

00:24:56   actually a good feature alright because

00:24:57   I don't think it's actually gonna be

00:24:59   useful or like I'm doing it for the

00:25:01   wrong reason like I'm doing this feature

00:25:03   because I think is like it's what all

00:25:05   the cool kids are doing but it's not

00:25:07   really isn't fit with the style of my

00:25:08   app or something like that for example

00:25:10   like if you're adding it right you're

00:25:12   adding this feature because you think

00:25:14   Apple will love you because you're

00:25:16   implementing a new API or something like

00:25:18   if it's for a reason that's external

00:25:20   like that like make sure that it's you

00:25:22   internally actually want to do it

00:25:24   because if you don't like sometimes

00:25:26   there are certainly things that are

00:25:27   externally you know foisted on you that

00:25:29   you have no choice about like you have

00:25:30   to follow your taxes with the IRS every

00:25:32   year like otherwise really bad things

00:25:34   happen but not implementing the hot new

00:25:37   API the Apple isn't gonna come knocking

00:25:40   on your door in the same way so being

00:25:43   aware of that and making sure that it is

00:25:45   something that you need to do and you

00:25:46   actually should do and if if that is the

00:25:49   case then like what is it about it that

00:25:51   makes it scary you know like for me in

00:25:54   this case like what I've come to

00:25:55   understand is that I just point out but

00:25:57   with guts what made me scared is that it

00:26:01   felt like something that I couldn't wrap

00:26:03   my arms around like it was the sister of

00:26:04   this slightly too big problem and so to

00:26:07   get started like what I did this morning

00:26:08   when I got she got started on working on

00:26:10   it is I said okay I'm not gonna worry

00:26:13   about like this crew this crazy

00:26:15   complexity tree that I'm about to have

00:26:17   to go down I'm just gonna worry about

00:26:19   the first step I'm just going to do this

00:26:21   thing I'm gonna get that going and then

00:26:24   that was a lot less scary and then from

00:26:27   here you know I'll implement the next

00:26:28   screen and then some of the next screen

00:26:30   and in the back of my mind like there's

00:26:32   that little part of me that says you

00:26:34   know Dave there's probably gonna be like

00:26:35   2030 screens you're gonna have to

00:26:37   implement to make this work like isn't

00:26:39   that crazy and scary

00:26:40   and it's just like consciously saying to

00:26:42   myself like it's okay I'm just gonna

00:26:44   worry about this one right now I know

00:26:46   and and that made it a little bit better

00:26:48   for me and maybe just it's like it's a

00:26:49   little bit silly that I'm you know I'm a

00:26:50   grown man but I have to like you know

00:26:53   coach myself through doing my job but

00:26:55   that's where I am and so like whatever

00:26:58   that's that's who I am and I found that

00:27:00   it works and you know to break it down

00:27:02   into something that's slightly less

00:27:04   scary when I was able to realize that

00:27:06   the thing that made it scary was how big

00:27:07   it was

00:27:08   yeah that's really good way to look at

00:27:10   it because you know I think part of one

00:27:12   of the biggest challenges of indie work

00:27:15   is that humans really like the the boss

00:27:18   effect goes away mostly you know there

00:27:20   are external deadlines and imposes like

00:27:23   you know when a new iPhone comes out and

00:27:25   stuff like that but for the most part

00:27:26   like the boss goes away and and so you

00:27:29   have to really get to know yourself and

00:27:31   get to know you know like the same

00:27:34   basically what your bosses always did

00:27:37   when you had jobs which is like figure

00:27:40   out how you know how you work figure out

00:27:42   what you're motivated by what you're not

00:27:44   motivated by and figure out how to

00:27:46   manage your motivation levels and how to

00:27:48   get how to get good work out of you your

00:27:50   bosses I think you know our bosses

00:27:52   throughout our jobs always had to figure

00:27:53   that about us now that is gone and we

00:27:56   have to figure that about ourselves and

00:27:57   we have to start learning how you know

00:27:59   how we fail what motivates us what

00:28:03   doesn't and how to get good work out of

00:28:05   ourselves and because there's no one

00:28:06   else to do it then you know you're you

00:28:08   know when you're on your own the way we

00:28:09   are like you have to be the person to

00:28:14   motivate yourself in some way now and

00:28:17   and manage the way you work and find a

00:28:19   way to get good output out of yourself

00:28:21   just despite your flaws yeah and I think

00:28:25   too it's the importance of not beating

00:28:27   yourself up about it as you learn and

00:28:30   discover and are able to sort of better

00:28:33   manage yourself because I know that is

00:28:36   something that I have struggled with a

00:28:37   lot is that I feel like my biggest

00:28:40   impostor syndrome moments come at these

00:28:43   times when I am struggling with

00:28:45   motivation and I feel like as like wow I

00:28:48   did not get anything done this week like

00:28:50   what I Who am I kidding I'm not anything

00:28:52   like I'm not there's no way I'm gonna be

00:28:53   a successful

00:28:54   belapur there's no way I'm gonna be able

00:28:55   to make a living of this and like this

00:28:57   is the things that I tell myself like

00:28:59   now eight years on into this process and

00:29:01   I think it's the importance of Mike

00:29:03   don't don't beat yourself up about it

00:29:04   like this is just the process just try

00:29:07   and be patient with yourself and

00:29:08   understand that this is a process you

00:29:10   have to actively manage that doesn't

00:29:12   happen on its own it's not like this

00:29:13   magic thing and there are people who

00:29:15   just like are always productive it's

00:29:17   like the people who are probably the

00:29:18   most productive or just the people who

00:29:19   understand what makes them unproductive

00:29:22   the most and have strategies around

00:29:24   minimizing those things over time and

00:29:26   like that's what makes them those that's

00:29:29   what makes them productive is by just

00:29:31   being aware of themselves and managing

00:29:33   themselves accordingly

00:29:34   Thanks listening everybody will talk to

00:29:36   you next week bye