Under the Radar

00:00:00 ◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show but

00:00:02 ◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:04 ◼   ► Marco Arment at M David Smith under the

00:00:07 ◼   ► radar is never longer than 30 minutes so

00:00:08 ◼   ► let's get started so in a few days is

00:00:11 ◼   ► the WB DC 2017 keynote followed by a

00:00:15 ◼   ► week of sessions and we are gonna learn

00:00:17 ◼   ► all sorts of new stuff it is very likely

00:00:20 ◼   ► that we will get you know announcements

00:00:22 ◼   ► of basically the next major versions of

00:00:25 ◼   ► all the Apple os's we're gonna have iOS

00:00:27 ◼   ► Mac OS watch OS maybe even TV OS if they

00:00:30 ◼   ► remember that's a product and it's

00:00:32 ◼   ► probably all going to dominate our

00:00:34 ◼   ► summer time and probably for release in

00:00:37 ◼   ► the fall so that we're all gonna have

00:00:39 ◼   ► the typical Apple you know summer season

00:00:41 ◼   ► as a developer and I'm looking forward

00:00:43 ◼   ► to this from from the little bits and

00:00:46 ◼   ► pieces of rumors here and there it seems

00:00:47 ◼   ► like there's a good chance of this being

00:00:49 ◼   ► a pretty big year and I think we're

00:00:52 ◼   ► gonna spend this episode talking about

00:00:54 ◼   ► kind of you know not necessarily

00:00:55 ◼   ► predictions but kind of just things that

00:00:58 ◼   ► we want out of out of these new releases

00:01:01 ◼   ► from a developer point of view does that

00:01:04 ◼   ► sound good yeah because I mean it is I

00:01:06 ◼   ► always going to watc week with like this

00:01:10 ◼   ► interesting combination of excitement

00:01:13 ◼   ► and terror because on the one hand it's

00:01:17 ◼   ► exciting as a developer to this is you

00:01:19 ◼   ► know this is the time when in general

00:01:21 ◼   ► all the new stuff comes out and it's

00:01:23 ◼   ► certainly the time when the most new

00:01:24 ◼   ► stuff comes out recently they've gotten

00:01:25 ◼   ► into a pattern where there's some new

00:01:27 ◼   ► stuff maybe in like early part of the

00:01:31 ◼   ► year like February or so but mostly this

00:01:34 ◼   ► is it and you know this in some ways

00:01:36 ◼   ► dictates the trajectory that my apps

00:01:39 ◼   ► will go on for the next you know for the

00:01:41 ◼   ► next year at least and so it's it's

00:01:44 ◼   ► exciting but it's also been terrifying

00:01:45 ◼   ► because who knows what's gonna come out

00:01:47 ◼   ► you know are we gonna have some big you

00:01:50 ◼   ► know it's like one of these things one

00:01:52 ◼   ► of these new features or design

00:01:53 ◼   ► overhauls or something where there's a

00:01:55 ◼   ► tremendous amount of busy work that I

00:01:56 ◼   ► need to do this summer to just update

00:01:58 ◼   ► all my apps to do something that's now

00:02:00 ◼   ► like the new way to do it or is it going

00:02:03 ◼   ► to be some new opportunity some new you

00:02:05 ◼   ► know a lot of my business is built

00:02:06 ◼   ► around the fact that you know Apple

00:02:09 ◼   ► sometimes introduces new API is that

00:02:10 ◼   ► create opportunities and you know should

00:02:13 ◼   ► I be

00:02:13 ◼   ► spending my whole summer you know diving

00:02:15 ◼   ► into getting those done so it's like

00:02:17 ◼   ► there's a bit of a tension there but

00:02:19 ◼   ► it's you know it's the overall I'm

00:02:20 ◼   ► excited I'm really you know looking

00:02:21 ◼   ► forward to going to San Jose next week

00:02:23 ◼   ► and to just seeing what Apple has in

00:02:26 ◼   ► store because I was a good show at the

00:02:28 ◼   ► very least like I always enjoy the

00:02:30 ◼   ► actual process of discovering this

00:02:31 ◼   ► whether or not it ends up making my

00:02:33 ◼   ► summer nice or not so nice so what what

00:02:38 ◼   ► is I mean I guess we could we could

00:02:39 ◼   ► probably do a little bit unstructured

00:02:41 ◼   ► here because who knows what there's

00:02:42 ◼   ► gonna be exactly what's like the biggest

00:02:44 ◼   ► thing you're expecting to be different

00:02:46 ◼   ► this year or to be announced for

00:02:48 ◼   ► developer point of view I mean it seems

00:02:51 ◼   ► like the big areas that are being

00:02:55 ◼   ► rumored to be talked about are around

00:02:57 ◼   ► the Sirikit stuff and around I would say

00:03:01 ◼   ► productivity stuff generally especially

00:03:03 ◼   ► on the iPad though right

00:03:06 ◼   ► like those these seems to be like those

00:03:08 ◼   ► are gonna be the if I had a guess the

00:03:10 ◼   ► broad themes of WTC because there's

00:03:13 ◼   ► often kind of a theme and sometimes

00:03:15 ◼   ► there's a like a marketing theme you

00:03:17 ◼   ► know something that you'll see in the

00:03:18 ◼   ► morning and sometimes there's a

00:03:20 ◼   ► technical theme that you'll see in the

00:03:23 ◼   ► afternoon like in the you know in the

00:03:25 ◼   ► State of the Union keynote - like the

00:03:26 ◼   ► thing that they sort of start to move

00:03:27 ◼   ► and focus on like I'm remembering there

00:03:30 ◼   ► was the one year there was the technical

00:03:31 ◼   ► theme it was all about flexible layout

00:03:34 ◼   ► and you know surprise surprise we've got

00:03:36 ◼   ► different sized iPhones that fall so

00:03:39 ◼   ► often there's this kind of this

00:03:40 ◼   ► undercurrent on the technical side that

00:03:42 ◼   ► I was trying to keep an eye on but I

00:03:44 ◼   ► think the two overarching features that

00:03:45 ◼   ► we're going to be kind of hit with a lot

00:03:47 ◼   ► are going to be you know Siri kid stuff

00:03:49 ◼   ► and then you know I've had stuff and

00:03:53 ◼   ► productivity stuff generally like trying

00:03:55 ◼   ► to kind of hit that stuff because it

00:03:56 ◼   ► seems like both of those things are the

00:03:58 ◼   ► areas where there's the most overdue

00:04:01 ◼   ► opportunities like there's lots of

00:04:03 ◼   ► things that Apple could do like there's

00:04:04 ◼   ► always these api's and these things that

00:04:06 ◼   ► I'm sure they could introduce and push

00:04:08 ◼   ► forward with but I think those are the

00:04:10 ◼   ► areas where what they don't have now

00:04:13 ◼   ► feels like a like a whole like something

00:04:17 ◼   ► they need to fill back in and to catch

00:04:18 ◼   ► up and so I would expect that that's

00:04:20 ◼   ► where they've been putting the majority

00:04:23 ◼   ► of their efforts you know for the last

00:04:24 ◼   ► year or so yeah I would I mean just salt

00:04:27 ◼   ► in as the developer of overcast I would

00:04:30 ◼   ► love for them to add more Siri kit

00:04:33 ◼   ► intents because chances are one of the

00:04:36 ◼   ► ones they would add would probably be

00:04:37 ◼   ► some kind of audio

00:04:38 ◼   ► library app kind of thing so that you

00:04:41 ◼   ► could have you know so you could say

00:04:43 ◼   ► things like hey name of assistant play

00:04:46 ◼   ► the latest episode of under the radar in

00:04:48 ◼   ► overcast and have it actually be able to

00:04:51 ◼   ► send my app that command in a structured

00:04:53 ◼   ► fashion and you know have my app be able

00:04:55 ◼   ► to expose its catalogue in such a way

00:04:56 ◼   ► that I can do the recognition for me and

00:04:59 ◼   ► and say exactly which show or exactly

00:05:01 ◼   ► which episode should be played but

00:05:03 ◼   ► that's a lot to build and so like it

00:05:05 ◼   ► makes a lot of sense why that wasn't

00:05:06 ◼   ► there last year in kind of like the the

00:05:08 ◼   ► 1.0 version of these features but I

00:05:12 ◼   ► that's something that I really would

00:05:13 ◼   ► expect to be added you know pretty

00:05:15 ◼   ► pretty far up the priority list so

00:05:17 ◼   ► probably this year because it's a very

00:05:19 ◼   ► very demanded thing it is possible as we

00:05:23 ◼   ► expected a little bit last year that

00:05:24 ◼   ► maybe Apple intentionally didn't want to

00:05:27 ◼   ► do that because they wanted to protect

00:05:28 ◼   ► and boost Apple music and have give it

00:05:31 ◼   ► like exclusive Siri access but I think

00:05:33 ◼   ► that's less likely than the other

00:05:35 ◼   ► explanation which is the properties

00:05:36 ◼   ► didn't have time to do it yet and so

00:05:38 ◼   ► we'll see what happens this year but if

00:05:41 ◼   ► that happens that's a game changer

00:05:42 ◼   ► because like basically you know Siri kit

00:05:45 ◼   ► is really really cool for like seven

00:05:48 ◼   ► kinds of apps and if your app does not

00:05:50 ◼   ► do one of those like seven things you

00:05:52 ◼   ► have nothing that you can do with Siri

00:05:54 ◼   ► kit so I'm hoping that you know any

00:05:57 ◼   ► broadening of Siri kit is is potentially

00:06:00 ◼   ► great for lots of people anything that

00:06:01 ◼   ► can expand it to more types of apps

00:06:04 ◼   ► whether it's you know my a specifically

00:06:06 ◼   ► or you know any others like I just want

00:06:09 ◼   ► to see movement there I want it to not

00:06:11 ◼   ► just be a thing that they release once

00:06:12 ◼   ► and then never expand again I want this

00:06:14 ◼   ► to be like every year there's some kind

00:06:16 ◼   ► of new Siri kit you know availability or

00:06:19 ◼   ► you know new intent types that that make

00:06:21 ◼   ► this thing more useful for more kinds of

00:06:24 ◼   ► apps and I think that's very likely to

00:06:25 ◼   ► be a case yeah and I think I also am

00:06:28 ◼   ► curious to see if they continue down the

00:06:32 ◼   ► path of the way they structured the

00:06:35 ◼   ► intent system in iOS 10 where it's very

00:06:40 ◼   ► like it's very rigid and like prescribed

00:06:43 ◼   ► like you can do these following things

00:06:45 ◼   ► and like what's awkward with that and

00:06:47 ◼   ► what I kind of want I'm curious to see

00:06:49 ◼   ► with how they handle it is if they

00:06:50 ◼   ► expand that massively like the number of

00:06:53 ◼   ► like constants that Siri kid is going to

00:06:56 ◼   ► have we're just kind of seem like it

00:06:59 ◼   ► might get out of control like if it's

00:07:01 ◼   ► intact if it's not this just sort of

00:07:03 ◼   ► general general purpose thing that you

00:07:06 ◼   ► have to like specifically to you know

00:07:08 ◼   ► it's like you have these categories and

00:07:09 ◼   ► subcategories and it gets very

00:07:11 ◼   ► structured like I mean they can do that

00:07:13 ◼   ► I mean it reminds me in some ways of

00:07:14 ◼   ► healthkit where you know they have just

00:07:17 ◼   ► hundreds of different sample types and

00:07:19 ◼   ► details that you can set on everything

00:07:22 ◼   ► and like it kind of works there but with

00:07:25 ◼   ► Sirikit like I wonder if that's where

00:07:26 ◼   ► they would go because it seems slightly

00:07:28 ◼   ► unwieldy and kind of limiting but I also

00:07:31 ◼   ► on the flip side I also think of things

00:07:33 ◼   ► like for example if they will get down

00:07:36 ◼   ► the road of doing things in a slightly

00:07:38 ◼   ► more like iOS driven approach I could

00:07:43 ◼   ► also see like for example overcast

00:07:45 ◼   ► incorporate integrates currently with

00:07:47 ◼   ► carplay which means that it exposes its

00:07:51 ◼   ► catalog in a you know in a

00:07:54 ◼   ► machine-readable format to the phone and

00:07:57 ◼   ► you carplay gives you commands in and

00:08:00 ◼   ► out in order to control it and I start I

00:08:02 ◼   ► start to wonder if they'll have that's a

00:08:04 ◼   ► slightly different approach to taking

00:08:06 ◼   ► that thing and like if they just if you

00:08:08 ◼   ► implement carplay you could integrate

00:08:09 ◼   ► with Siri kit because theoretically that

00:08:12 ◼   ► information is available to it and so i

00:08:14 ◼   ► wonder if they'll you know it's a

00:08:16 ◼   ► slightly different approach rather than

00:08:17 ◼   ► pushing all of those details of like you

00:08:20 ◼   ► know what can overcast do with like well

00:08:22 ◼   ► it has an intent for playing does it

00:08:23 ◼   ► have a need to have a separate intent

00:08:25 ◼   ► for pausing for next for adjusting

00:08:28 ◼   ► speeds like are there how are they going

00:08:32 ◼   ► to go into that just in the Sirikit side

00:08:34 ◼   ► versus you know looking in other way

00:08:36 ◼   ► other places and you know I don't know

00:08:38 ◼   ► it's I've played around a little bit

00:08:40 ◼   ► with Sirikit you can have an integration

00:08:43 ◼   ► in pedometer plus plus where you can use

00:08:46 ◼   ► it to start a walking workout on an

00:08:48 ◼   ► Apple watch which was one of the few

00:08:51 ◼   ► intense that like of all the intents

00:08:53 ◼   ► that were

00:08:53 ◼   ► well that was the one of the main ones

00:08:55 ◼   ► that I could like I could do I don't

00:08:57 ◼   ► know if that's used very much I think

00:09:00 ◼   ► the biggest struggle I have with Siri in

00:09:02 ◼   ► general and the Sirikit is Siri itself

00:09:05 ◼   ► needs to be such a neat it would need at

00:09:09 ◼   ► least for my own use you would need to

00:09:11 ◼   ► be a more fundamental part of how I

00:09:13 ◼   ► interact with my iOS devices or may have

00:09:16 ◼   ► a whole ecosystem generally for it to

00:09:19 ◼   ► make sense because right now it's much

00:09:21 ◼   ► easier for me to just raise my wrist

00:09:23 ◼   ► tap the complication and then tap star

00:09:25 ◼   ► walk like that's much more

00:09:27 ◼   ► straightforward and is going to work

00:09:28 ◼   ► every time so um I guess my hope is that

00:09:32 ◼   ► if they're going to go down the road of

00:09:33 ◼   ► expanding surrogate that they are it has

00:09:36 ◼   ► to I think be you know come along with

00:09:38 ◼   ► much broader improvements to Siri in

00:09:42 ◼   ► general to you know to make it a place

00:09:44 ◼   ► that we're hanging out so that

00:09:45 ◼   ► interacting with apps in there you know

00:09:47 ◼   ► makes sense as well or if it doesn't

00:09:49 ◼   ► we'll just sort of end up with the

00:09:50 ◼   ► iMessage app situation where it's like

00:09:53 ◼   ► there's this thing and it's

00:09:54 ◼   ► theoretically very powerful but in

00:09:57 ◼   ► practical use it's not very widely used

00:10:00 ◼   ► and so you know as a developer putting

00:10:03 ◼   ► much time and effort into it like I made

00:10:06 ◼   ► a couple iMessage apps when it first

00:10:07 ◼   ► launched I don't think I'm going to be

00:10:10 ◼   ► probably putting a lot more work into

00:10:11 ◼   ► there because I don't hear from a lot of

00:10:13 ◼   ► customers that they like use it or have

00:10:15 ◼   ► feature requests or issues and even in

00:10:17 ◼   ► my analytics like they're not used too

00:10:19 ◼   ► much and so if Siri ended up going down

00:10:21 ◼   ► that same road like that would be kind

00:10:23 ◼   ► of disappointing and a little like

00:10:25 ◼   ► frustrating to have this game new

00:10:27 ◼   ► capability but it's in this place that

00:10:29 ◼   ► no one goes because it's awkward or they

00:10:32 ◼   ► don't know how to do it or it doesn't

00:10:33 ◼   ► work often enough you know to be

00:10:36 ◼   ► reliable because that's always that's

00:10:38 ◼   ► always the you know the big oh no

00:10:39 ◼   ► whenever Apple releases some kind of

00:10:41 ◼   ► brand new territory or brand new type of

00:10:43 ◼   ► thing you can do a brand new app store

00:10:45 ◼   ► it you never really know and they don't

00:10:48 ◼   ► even really know like is this gonna be a

00:10:50 ◼   ► thing or not you know I think early on

00:10:52 ◼   ► there was an assumption that a brand new

00:10:54 ◼   ► app store would always be a thing

00:10:55 ◼   ► because the early ones were pretty big

00:10:57 ◼   ► because there was all this pent-up

00:10:58 ◼   ► demand and a lot of low-hanging fruit

00:11:00 ◼   ► and then over time as they've they've

00:11:02 ◼   ► brought it and they've made a lot more

00:11:04 ◼   ► like specialized capabilities and

00:11:06 ◼   ► specialized app store

00:11:07 ◼   ► and more specialized platforms like the

00:11:10 ◼   ► TV and the watch and and you know and

00:11:13 ◼   ► then the last year they added the Ibis

00:11:14 ◼   ► app store and and I think what we've

00:11:16 ◼   ► seen from a lot of these is like yeah

00:11:18 ◼   ► well you know it's when it launches its

00:11:20 ◼   ► a big unknown and then afterwards a lot

00:11:23 ◼   ► of them just kind of don't go very far

00:11:25 ◼   ► or they go far but only for very narrow

00:11:28 ◼   ► app types like like on the TV like you

00:11:30 ◼   ► have video apps like video playback apps

00:11:32 ◼   ► and you have basically a handful of

00:11:34 ◼   ► games that are that are decent on it but

00:11:36 ◼   ► not much else like you know when they

00:11:38 ◼   ► demo these things they show like oh

00:11:39 ◼   ► here's like a real estate app and a

00:11:41 ◼   ► shopping app and all these different

00:11:42 ◼   ► things that you can do on your TV but

00:11:44 ◼   ► then most people don't actually do those

00:11:46 ◼   ► things

00:11:46 ◼   ► same thing with messages where like you

00:11:48 ◼   ► know you can make a really complex

00:11:50 ◼   ► advanced app for for iMessage but most

00:11:54 ◼   ► people aren't doing that most people

00:11:56 ◼   ► aren't using those and most people who

00:11:58 ◼   ► aren't finding those or looking for that

00:11:59 ◼   ► it's like they're most people just using

00:12:01 ◼   ► like the built-in stuff and maybe some

00:12:03 ◼   ► stickers and so it's you know you know

00:12:06 ◼   ► but you don't know that when they launch

00:12:08 ◼   ► it you kind of have to take a risk with

00:12:09 ◼   ► some of these new categories because as

00:12:10 ◼   ► we talked about before like there is

00:12:12 ◼   ► potential upside if you guess if you bet

00:12:15 ◼   ► on the right horse and like if you if

00:12:17 ◼   ► they open up something new that ends up

00:12:19 ◼   ► being awesome and really taking off and

00:12:21 ◼   ► if you're there early you have a huge

00:12:23 ◼   ► advantage and so to kind of move this on

00:12:25 ◼   ► a little bit one thing that that I'm a

00:12:27 ◼   ► little bit excited about tentatively is

00:12:29 ◼   ► that over the last couple of releases

00:12:32 ◼   ► they've added in each OS they've added

00:12:35 ◼   ► like extremely specialized extension

00:12:39 ◼   ► types that basically makes sense for

00:12:41 ◼   ► like one app or one kind of app and

00:12:43 ◼   ► nothing else so this would be things

00:12:45 ◼   ► like the Safari content blocker

00:12:47 ◼   ► extension or what they did is last year

00:12:50 ◼   ► phone call blocking extensions and what

00:12:53 ◼   ► this enables is basically like it's like

00:12:55 ◼   ► I've been able like one kind of app but

00:12:58 ◼   ► those one kinds of apps are usually like

00:13:01 ◼   ► game changers for certain people who

00:13:03 ◼   ► need that like I was getting I was

00:13:05 ◼   ► having a huge robocall spam problem like

00:13:07 ◼   ► phone call spam it's getting out of

00:13:09 ◼   ► control in recent years for a lot of

00:13:11 ◼   ► people are and it was hitting me hard

00:13:12 ◼   ► and ever since call blocking extensions

00:13:14 ◼   ► came out last year I've had a massive

00:13:17 ◼   ► weapon against this similarly like you

00:13:18 ◼   ► know the content blockers before that

00:13:20 ◼   ► like

00:13:21 ◼   ► you know before Safari content blockers

00:13:23 ◼   ► you know my whole piece drama side

00:13:24 ◼   ► before counter blockers there was no

00:13:27 ◼   ► good way to control ads or privacy or

00:13:31 ◼   ► data usage in mobile safari and with one

00:13:34 ◼   ► extension point that they made that then

00:13:36 ◼   ► became possible and actually fairly easy

00:13:38 ◼   ► to do so kind of unspecific aliy what

00:13:42 ◼   ► i'm looking forward to this year is to

00:13:43 ◼   ► just see like what other kinds of weird

00:13:45 ◼   ► little extensions are they going to add

00:13:47 ◼   ► to the system because those always

00:13:49 ◼   ► enable new kinds of apps or brand new

00:13:52 ◼   ► types of features and apps that you

00:13:53 ◼   ► could never do before and that's always

00:13:54 ◼   ► exciting to me yeah I mean I always have

00:13:57 ◼   ► I always love playing the game of trying

00:13:59 ◼   ► to guess what those things are and I

00:14:01 ◼   ► think one thing that I was thinking

00:14:03 ◼   ► about recently is it seemed kind of odd

00:14:05 ◼   ► that Apple is never into it's not odd

00:14:08 ◼   ► but it's know worthy that Apple has

00:14:10 ◼   ► never done any integrations with a male

00:14:13 ◼   ► app yeah on the iPhone doesn't even use

00:14:16 ◼   ► a share sheet yet yeah it's very like

00:14:19 ◼   ► that and like understandably in a lot of

00:14:21 ◼   ► ways that like letting a third-party app

00:14:23 ◼   ► have access to your email is you know is

00:14:26 ◼   ► it's a complicated thing I mean

00:14:27 ◼   ► obviously the same times like people you

00:14:30 ◼   ► give your third-party apps access to all

00:14:32 ◼   ► of your photos which are you know in

00:14:35 ◼   ► some ways just as just as a personal or

00:14:37 ◼   ► all of your phone calls or all of your

00:14:39 ◼   ► or all of your web browsing activity

00:14:41 ◼   ► like you know and the way Apple the

00:14:42 ◼   ► apple designs these extension points to

00:14:45 ◼   ► protect people's privacy like a call

00:14:46 ◼   ► blocking extension is not notified on

00:14:48 ◼   ► every call it receives all it does is

00:14:51 ◼   ► provide Apple a block list what you know

00:14:54 ◼   ► when it's asked to and then Apple

00:14:55 ◼   ► actually enforces it same thing with

00:14:57 ◼   ► Safari content blockers where the

00:14:59 ◼   ► content blocker is not itself getting a

00:15:02 ◼   ► feed of all the URLs you're visiting and

00:15:04 ◼   ► say and returning yes or no on all of

00:15:06 ◼   ► them it is again simply supplying like

00:15:08 ◼   ► block patterns in a block list and the

00:15:10 ◼   ► system is doing the enforcement for so

00:15:11 ◼   ► it has no insight into your activity so

00:15:13 ◼   ► if they wanted to do something with mail

00:15:15 ◼   ► extensions which I love that idea

00:15:16 ◼   ► they could do things more like that

00:15:19 ◼   ► where the where what you can do as the

00:15:22 ◼   ► extension provider is limited in a way

00:15:25 ◼   ► that protects user privacy very well

00:15:27 ◼   ► yeah because I doubt we would end up

00:15:30 ◼   ► with something that's like the like mail

00:15:32 ◼   ► kit that's the equivalent of like

00:15:35 ◼   ► photo kit or something where you can

00:15:37 ◼   ► like completely you can read all of

00:15:39 ◼   ► someone's email you can send emails on

00:15:41 ◼   ► their behalf like they've created API is

00:15:44 ◼   ► for that for other content types like

00:15:46 ◼   ► email seems a little a little much and

00:15:49 ◼   ► of course as a result all of the third

00:15:50 ◼   ► party email apps on iPhones you know

00:15:52 ◼   ► they all need all your credentials and

00:15:54 ◼   ► information and like there's a whole

00:15:56 ◼   ► other issue there potentially but it's

00:15:59 ◼   ► it's an area certainly that I think of

00:16:00 ◼   ► that I could see them going into and in

00:16:03 ◼   ► some ways it speaks to the maturity of

00:16:05 ◼   ► the platform that there aren't that many

00:16:07 ◼   ► other areas that I can think of that are

00:16:10 ◼   ► sort of be like obvious new extension

00:16:13 ◼   ► points yeah

00:16:14 ◼   ► like they've done a really I mean it's

00:16:16 ◼   ► it's kind of crazy if you've just for

00:16:17 ◼   ► fun go into Xcode and open like the you

00:16:20 ◼   ► know ad extension panel you know so long

00:16:23 ◼   ► it's so big there is so much stuff that

00:16:26 ◼   ► you can do in there and there's stuff

00:16:27 ◼   ► that like that you forget that you can

00:16:29 ◼   ► even do like there's there stuff that

00:16:30 ◼   ► they mentioned once in a keynote two

00:16:32 ◼   ► years ago and you forgot about an hour

00:16:34 ◼   ► later and you get there oh wow that's

00:16:36 ◼   ► right I can build this thing that's

00:16:38 ◼   ► crazy oh sure I mean it's crazy now even

00:16:41 ◼   ► just like when I build spindly some of

00:16:42 ◼   ► my apps like the number of targets that

00:16:44 ◼   ► yeah are included and it's you have to

00:16:46 ◼   ► know I mean it's gotten a lot better but

00:16:48 ◼   ► I've been dealing with like code signing

00:16:50 ◼   ► and things with these things we're now

00:16:52 ◼   ► you have like six or seven different you

00:16:54 ◼   ► know target things that you need to deal

00:16:56 ◼   ► with and manage and I mean in some ways

00:16:59 ◼   ► you know you all you always hope that

00:17:00 ◼   ► like maybe they'll do something on the

00:17:02 ◼   ► tooling side to improve that but overall

00:17:04 ◼   ► I'd say this extension approach that

00:17:07 ◼   ► they've taken since whenever that inch I

00:17:10 ◼   ► was eight maybe whenever that assay this

00:17:13 ◼   ► came like it seems like it's been a big

00:17:16 ◼   ► win in terms of they've you know created

00:17:18 ◼   ► this mechanism by which you can create

00:17:21 ◼   ► logic and have it tie into different

00:17:23 ◼   ► parts of the OS in a way that is fairly

00:17:27 ◼   ► reliable is fairly isolating and doesn't

00:17:30 ◼   ► require like your main app for example

00:17:33 ◼   ► to be running all the time in the

00:17:35 ◼   ► background which you know we're gonna

00:17:36 ◼   ► add would you know would expect would

00:17:38 ◼   ► have you know battery life concerns you

00:17:40 ◼   ► know like you can add a widget to your

00:17:43 ◼   ► app that you know just sits there and

00:17:45 ◼   ► it's only active whenever the the

00:17:47 ◼   ► widgets are shown

00:17:48 ◼   ► but it doesn't necessarily you know and

00:17:50 ◼   ► it doesn't fire up your main process and

00:17:52 ◼   ► do all that kind of stuff like it so you

00:17:54 ◼   ► can build these really focused detailed

00:17:56 ◼   ► things and yeah so I mean I would expect

00:17:59 ◼   ► and hope we would kind of you know add a

00:18:00 ◼   ► few more extension points but it is

00:18:04 ◼   ► funny to think at what point like did

00:18:07 ◼   ► they run out of those do they run out of

00:18:09 ◼   ► like the the obvious and impactful

00:18:12 ◼   ► extension points and I mean I don't

00:18:14 ◼   ► think we're there yet certainly but it

00:18:16 ◼   ► is certainly something that you know

00:18:17 ◼   ► like iOS is turning 11 or whatever it is

00:18:20 ◼   ► like it's getting old it's it's you know

00:18:22 ◼   ► it's heading off to high school now it's

00:18:24 ◼   ► it's well on its way to adolescence so I

00:18:27 ◼   ► mean maybe we'll have some awkward

00:18:29 ◼   ► puberty kind of like growing pains kind

00:18:31 ◼   ► of situations but I think that was iOS 7

00:18:33 ◼   ► that was iOS 7 it started orally but

00:18:39 ◼   ► yeah but it does feel like it's more

00:18:43 ◼   ► mature I mean in some ways it makes

00:18:45 ◼   ► reminds me of the Mac right like at what

00:18:46 ◼   ► point does iOS have that kind of

00:18:49 ◼   ► stability in capability that you know

00:18:53 ◼   ► Mac oh the Mac has right now and you

00:18:56 ◼   ► know I don't know if we're quite there

00:18:57 ◼   ► yet but I think we're certainly getting

00:18:58 ◼   ► closer to there yeah we're certainly

00:19:00 ◼   ► like closer to that then to the

00:19:02 ◼   ► beginning you know but it but if they

00:19:04 ◼   ► actually do the the semi rumored things

00:19:07 ◼   ► about you know promoting the use of

00:19:09 ◼   ► files and interact communication and

00:19:11 ◼   ► data sharing kind of rethinking some of

00:19:13 ◼   ► that file and document model in iOS that

00:19:15 ◼   ► also could enable all sorts of new types

00:19:17 ◼   ► of apps and all sorts of advances to

00:19:20 ◼   ► existing applet that could be a huge

00:19:22 ◼   ► change to the OS and and especially from

00:19:25 ◼   ► the user point of view and that you know

00:19:27 ◼   ► just even if we could do a certain thing

00:19:29 ◼   ► before if it's now like way easier for

00:19:32 ◼   ► people to do that alone can change

00:19:34 ◼   ► markets and can change what kind of apps

00:19:36 ◼   ► people can practically make and sell and

00:19:38 ◼   ► and and survive from so that is all very

00:19:40 ◼   ► promising like if any of that stuff

00:19:42 ◼   ► happens but we'll see in a responsive

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00:20:41 ◼   ► show and all of real AFM so there's also

00:20:45 ◼   ► you know in addition to like big things

00:20:47 ◼   ► in iOS I'm also just kind of looking

00:20:50 ◼   ► forward to the SDK changes you know

00:20:53 ◼   ► every year there's some kind of like you

00:20:55 ◼   ► know new sdk new api new UI kit widgets

00:20:58 ◼   ► and stuff that make things better or

00:21:00 ◼   ► easier or enable new uses and i'm always

00:21:03 ◼   ► looking forward to this especially

00:21:04 ◼   ► because this year it there is the

00:21:06 ◼   ► rumblings of a like mid-level redesigned

00:21:08 ◼   ► happening system-wide and that usually

00:21:10 ◼   ► comes with some cool new widgets and and

00:21:12 ◼   ► stock controllers and things like that

00:21:14 ◼   ► as well and you know kind of the design

00:21:17 ◼   ► trend that's in right now involves

00:21:19 ◼   ► things and this is kind of i tried to do

00:21:21 ◼   ► with overcast but involves things that

00:21:22 ◼   ► kind of looked like apple maps right now

00:21:24 ◼   ► where you have like these like sliding

00:21:25 ◼   ► sheets and everything's kind of curvy

00:21:27 ◼   ► and everything's kind of like you know

00:21:29 ◼   ► it slides up with depth but not

00:21:30 ◼   ► translucency and it's kind of like

00:21:33 ◼   ► moving around these these swiping cards

00:21:35 ◼   ► and doing this with stock uikit now is a

00:21:38 ◼   ► lot of manual work it's a lot of custom

00:21:41 ◼   ► work and so if they are redesigning the

00:21:43 ◼   ► OS to be more like that i would love to

00:21:46 ◼   ► see sdk to basically make that stuff

00:21:49 ◼   ► easy and standard to have like this is

00:21:52 ◼   ► now your like UI card controller or

00:21:54 ◼   ► whatever they would call it you know and

00:21:56 ◼   ► then have stuff like that happen because

00:21:58 ◼   ► if you're designing an app today that

00:22:00 ◼   ► that you want to feel new and modern

00:22:02 ◼   ► that's the kind of stuff you have to do

00:22:04 ◼   ► and if they build it in it becomes way

00:22:07 ◼   ► easier and it really and it standardizes

00:22:09 ◼   ► the implementations so they all feel the

00:22:11 ◼   ► same and they all work the same which is

00:22:13 ◼   ► better for everybody so i'm I'm very

00:22:15 ◼   ► much

00:22:15 ◼   ► looking forward to the potential of that

00:22:17 ◼   ► yeah and I think too I always am hopeful

00:22:22 ◼   ► for them to find the areas that are

00:22:25 ◼   ► these like little pain points that these

00:22:27 ◼   ► aren't things that would even yeah

00:22:29 ◼   ► they're not gonna show up on the

00:22:30 ◼   ► keynotes they're not gonna show up on

00:22:32 ◼   ► that thing at the State of the Union

00:22:33 ◼   ► like these are just these little like

00:22:35 ◼   ► pain points that they can alleviate like

00:22:37 ◼   ► in some ways it makes me think of what I

00:22:39 ◼   ► won my my favorite changes are ones

00:22:41 ◼   ► where I can remove a third party library

00:22:45 ◼   ► or dependency for my app look like just

00:22:47 ◼   ► instead switch over to using there it's

00:22:49 ◼   ► you know like I think of things like a

00:22:52 ◼   ► like a blocking progress HUD which is

00:22:56 ◼   ► something that like most apps at some

00:22:58 ◼   ► point need to integrate because you have

00:23:00 ◼   ► some part of your app where you know you

00:23:02 ◼   ► need to say like you need to block the

00:23:04 ◼   ► user from doing things while you do some

00:23:05 ◼   ► operation that takes a little bit of

00:23:07 ◼   ► time and like that's like there is no

00:23:11 ◼   ► built-in UI way to do that and so you

00:23:13 ◼   ► end up with like hundreds of different

00:23:14 ◼   ► third-party universes of that and or you

00:23:17 ◼   ► can build your own and add a hundred and

00:23:19 ◼   ► first or I think of things like like

00:23:23 ◼   ► with all the rappers that exist around

00:23:25 ◼   ► keychain access and it makes me think

00:23:28 ◼   ► like when are we gonna get like hey just

00:23:30 ◼   ► a nice clean it you know interface

00:23:33 ◼   ► that's not based on the audio low-level

00:23:36 ◼   ► see stuff that we end up you know

00:23:38 ◼   ► because ultimately I know it's just the

00:23:40 ◼   ► further my first includes is I include a

00:23:42 ◼   ► wrapper for keychain because I'm gonna

00:23:44 ◼   ► need to store credentials and purse you

00:23:45 ◼   ► know of like you know in sensitive data

00:23:48 ◼   ► somewhere and doing it the other way

00:23:50 ◼   ► like it isn't so much that I can't or is

00:23:52 ◼   ► that I worry about doing it wrong that

00:23:54 ◼   ► you know it's it's you know they're very

00:23:56 ◼   ► it's the the the whole point is that

00:23:57 ◼   ► this is a sensitive data and I want to

00:23:59 ◼   ► do it properly and so and if using a

00:24:01 ◼   ► wrapper it's like I'd love to see little

00:24:02 ◼   ► things like that like these little bits

00:24:05 ◼   ► of API that just make things better and

00:24:07 ◼   ► then I think like you're saying yeah

00:24:08 ◼   ► like if they're if they can if they have

00:24:11 ◼   ► a direction they would like developers

00:24:13 ◼   ► to head from a UI perspective making it

00:24:16 ◼   ► so that you know in the same way that

00:24:17 ◼   ► you have to build it yourself it's much

00:24:21 ◼   ► better if it's built in because that

00:24:23 ◼   ► especially I would say they've gotten a

00:24:25 ◼   ► lot better too of when they do introduce

00:24:27 ◼   ► new stuff like that they make

00:24:29 ◼   ► extensible to a degree that you can

00:24:31 ◼   ► still kind of make it your own and tweak

00:24:34 ◼   ► it and customize it and hack around it

00:24:36 ◼   ► less in a way that like collection views

00:24:39 ◼   ► for example are way more extensible like

00:24:41 ◼   ► sometimes in ways that make them hard to

00:24:42 ◼   ► understand but they're way more

00:24:44 ◼   ► extensible than you you a UI tableview

00:24:45 ◼   ► was and I think that's a lesson that

00:24:47 ◼   ► they seem to be learning around making

00:24:49 ◼   ► when they add a new bit of UI like that

00:24:52 ◼   ► you know they make it really extensible

00:24:54 ◼   ► so that everybody can use it and then

00:24:56 ◼   ► everybody can benefit from it and I

00:24:58 ◼   ► think more importantly so then customers

00:25:00 ◼   ► and users of iPhones have a much more

00:25:03 ◼   ► consistent experience that you know you

00:25:05 ◼   ► you don't have these weird edge cases or

00:25:07 ◼   ► like well in this one I do this and it

00:25:09 ◼   ► just feels different or they even just

00:25:11 ◼   ► like the physics of it like the way it

00:25:13 ◼   ► slides up and down is different and

00:25:15 ◼   ► anytime you have those differences like

00:25:17 ◼   ► that's not as good as if every app kind

00:25:18 ◼   ► of gets the same thing and then every

00:25:20 ◼   ► you know every app can benefit from it

00:25:22 ◼   ► as it improves over time I actually did

00:25:24 ◼   ► have on my list here will this be the

00:25:26 ◼   ► year they finally resolved the tableview

00:25:29 ◼   ► slash collection view discrepancy in

00:25:31 ◼   ► some way you know probably by by making

00:25:34 ◼   ► by either making table view like a

00:25:35 ◼   ► special collection view subclass or just

00:25:38 ◼   ► by a deprecating table view and making

00:25:39 ◼   ► it and just kind of adding things to

00:25:40 ◼   ► collection view layouts that can make

00:25:42 ◼   ► that easy to do but I would love to see

00:25:44 ◼   ► some motion there I would also on my

00:25:47 ◼   ► rest of my hit list here it's pretty

00:25:48 ◼   ► quick I would love to see the

00:25:50 ◼   ► system-wide dark mode that's been

00:25:51 ◼   ► rumored forever that could be nice to

00:25:53 ◼   ► have and to have like kind of a system

00:25:56 ◼   ► toggle kind of like the dynamic text

00:25:57 ◼   ► toggle where you can you can just make

00:25:59 ◼   ► your app respond to that and you don't

00:26:00 ◼   ► have to build UI for that and then my

00:26:03 ◼   ► stretch goal here is it has seemed like

00:26:05 ◼   ► in the last year or two

00:26:08 ◼   ► like fairly recently Apple has kind of

00:26:10 ◼   ► revitalized the Mac in in some way and

00:26:13 ◼   ► started putting you know a lot of a lot

00:26:15 ◼   ► of big effort behind the Mac again I

00:26:16 ◼   ► would love to see and and I'm not asking

00:26:19 ◼   ► for UI kit on the Mac that's that's a

00:26:21 ◼   ► big stretch oh I know I know

00:26:22 ◼   ► there's lots of reasons why that will

00:26:23 ◼   ► probably never happen and some of them

00:26:26 ◼   ► are even good reasons but I would like

00:26:28 ◼   ► to see the needless distance between app

00:26:31 ◼   ► kit and UI kit reduced so because

00:26:35 ◼   ► there's so many classes that are similar

00:26:37 ◼   ► but just different for minor or legacy

00:26:41 ◼   ► reasons like and as

00:26:42 ◼   ► color versus UI color and as image

00:26:44 ◼   ► versus UI and makes things like that

00:26:46 ◼   ► that are just kind of like needlessly

00:26:48 ◼   ► different I would love to see just let's

00:26:50 ◼   ► reduce some of those differences let's

00:26:52 ◼   ► let's get some kind some kind of

00:26:54 ◼   ► indication here of making uniting these

00:26:57 ◼   ► two platforms on a on some level just to

00:27:00 ◼   ► make it a little bit less painful to

00:27:02 ◼   ► work between them and to kind of then

00:27:04 ◼   ► encourage more Mac development I would

00:27:06 ◼   ► love to see that that's kind of a

00:27:07 ◼   ► stretch goal of mine but I'm not sure

00:27:08 ◼   ► how realistic that is yeah and I mean

00:27:11 ◼   ► it's I would say is one of these things

00:27:13 ◼   ► that seems to be a slow march that

00:27:16 ◼   ► towards that we're you know almost ap is

00:27:19 ◼   ► now that like all of the new stuff with

00:27:22 ◼   ► if it's on both platforms it tends to be

00:27:25 ◼   ► fairly consistent across both platforms

00:27:27 ◼   ► and it's like the yeah whether they will

00:27:29 ◼   ► do through the work of slowly kind of on

00:27:33 ◼   ► undoing some of the older stuff to make

00:27:36 ◼   ► it more consistent and exactly how they

00:27:38 ◼   ► do that who knows but it is definitely

00:27:40 ◼   ► something that it feels like a that this

00:27:43 ◼   ► kind of awkward thing that all of the

00:27:45 ◼   ► modern or I don't modernist era are the

00:27:48 ◼   ► wrong word all of their new platforms

00:27:49 ◼   ► are UI kit based you know in terms of

00:27:51 ◼   ► the the watch the iPhone and TV OS

00:27:56 ◼   ► they're not it's not that they're like

00:27:59 ◼   ► they don't use UI kit necessarily but

00:28:00 ◼   ► they all seem to live in that family and

00:28:03 ◼   ► will like use UI colors and then none of

00:28:05 ◼   ► it's based on the Mac stuff and it feels

00:28:08 ◼   ► like that Mathematica comes the odd man

00:28:09 ◼   ► out that you can have a library now that

00:28:12 ◼   ► you could use across all of their

00:28:14 ◼   ► platforms except the Mac and that that

00:28:17 ◼   ► odd man out Ennis it's definitely

00:28:19 ◼   ► something that I think would be great

00:28:20 ◼   ► for them to resolve yeah and it's hard

00:28:22 ◼   ► because you know a part of the reasons

00:28:24 ◼   ► why the Mac has different stuff is

00:28:26 ◼   ► because in many cases it can do a lot

00:28:28 ◼   ► more like it has to accommodate more use

00:28:29 ◼   ► cases or more you know configuration

00:28:32 ◼   ► options and things like that

00:28:33 ◼   ► but I think that there are ways to

00:28:35 ◼   ► resolve this and I think it would be

00:28:36 ◼   ► really nice for the entire ecosystem

00:28:38 ◼   ► including Apple's internal development

00:28:40 ◼   ► if this was resolved alright any closing

00:28:42 ◼   ► thoughts I'm looking forward to next

00:28:43 ◼   ► week we're gonna be doing a live show at

00:28:45 ◼   ► cocoa conf next door we're happy to see

00:28:48 ◼   ► anybody next week oh we really look

00:28:49 ◼   ► forward to you know if you if you want

00:28:51 ◼   ► if you see us and you want to go up and

00:28:52 ◼   ► say hi please do we love that don't feel

00:28:55 ◼   ► bad or guilty or awkward

00:28:56 ◼   ► just come up and say hi and yeah any

00:28:58 ◼   ► closing thoughts yeah no I mean I think

00:29:00 ◼   ► that is I would say I'm looking forward

00:29:02 ◼   ► to next week I hope to always enjoy like

00:29:05 ◼   ► it is a a rare thing to like I love

00:29:09 ◼   ► meeting listeners I love running into

00:29:11 ◼   ► people who listen to the show or you

00:29:14 ◼   ► know know what I do and WBC week is

00:29:16 ◼   ► always you know it's a special week

00:29:18 ◼   ► because it's the one week where the

00:29:19 ◼   ► people around me actually know that

00:29:21 ◼   ► actually like care about what I care

00:29:23 ◼   ► about and if anything it's gonna be kind

00:29:26 ◼   ► of interesting because I get the

00:29:27 ◼   ► impression that we're going to take over

00:29:30 ◼   ► downtown San Jose it'll just be

00:29:32 ◼   ► developers as far as the eye can see

00:29:34 ◼   ► which is kind of exciting in some ways

00:29:35 ◼   ► that will just kind of everyone everyone

00:29:37 ◼   ► around me will be interested in the same

00:29:40 ◼   ► stuff well we're out of time so thank

00:29:42 ◼   ► you for listening everybody and we will

00:29:44 ◼   ► see you maybe literally some of you next

00:29:46 ◼   ► week bye