Under the Radar

Under the Radar 82: WWDC Wish List


00:00:00   welcome to under the radar a show but

00:00:02   independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:04   Marco Arment at M David Smith under the

00:00:07   radar is never longer than 30 minutes so

00:00:08   let's get started so in a few days is

00:00:11   the WB DC 2017 keynote followed by a

00:00:15   week of sessions and we are gonna learn

00:00:17   all sorts of new stuff it is very likely

00:00:20   that we will get you know announcements

00:00:22   of basically the next major versions of

00:00:25   all the Apple os's we're gonna have iOS

00:00:27   Mac OS watch OS maybe even TV OS if they

00:00:30   remember that's a product and it's

00:00:32   probably all going to dominate our

00:00:34   summer time and probably for release in

00:00:37   the fall so that we're all gonna have

00:00:39   the typical Apple you know summer season

00:00:41   as a developer and I'm looking forward

00:00:43   to this from from the little bits and

00:00:46   pieces of rumors here and there it seems

00:00:47   like there's a good chance of this being

00:00:49   a pretty big year and I think we're

00:00:52   gonna spend this episode talking about

00:00:54   kind of you know not necessarily

00:00:55   predictions but kind of just things that

00:00:58   we want out of out of these new releases

00:01:01   from a developer point of view does that

00:01:04   sound good yeah because I mean it is I

00:01:06   always going to watc week with like this

00:01:10   interesting combination of excitement

00:01:13   and terror because on the one hand it's

00:01:17   exciting as a developer to this is you

00:01:19   know this is the time when in general

00:01:21   all the new stuff comes out and it's

00:01:23   certainly the time when the most new

00:01:24   stuff comes out recently they've gotten

00:01:25   into a pattern where there's some new

00:01:27   stuff maybe in like early part of the

00:01:31   year like February or so but mostly this

00:01:34   is it and you know this in some ways

00:01:36   dictates the trajectory that my apps

00:01:39   will go on for the next you know for the

00:01:41   next year at least and so it's it's

00:01:44   exciting but it's also been terrifying

00:01:45   because who knows what's gonna come out

00:01:47   you know are we gonna have some big you

00:01:50   know it's like one of these things one

00:01:52   of these new features or design

00:01:53   overhauls or something where there's a

00:01:55   tremendous amount of busy work that I

00:01:56   need to do this summer to just update

00:01:58   all my apps to do something that's now

00:02:00   like the new way to do it or is it going

00:02:03   to be some new opportunity some new you

00:02:05   know a lot of my business is built

00:02:06   around the fact that you know Apple

00:02:09   sometimes introduces new API is that

00:02:10   create opportunities and you know should

00:02:13   I be

00:02:13   spending my whole summer you know diving

00:02:15   into getting those done so it's like

00:02:17   there's a bit of a tension there but

00:02:19   it's you know it's the overall I'm

00:02:20   excited I'm really you know looking

00:02:21   forward to going to San Jose next week

00:02:23   and to just seeing what Apple has in

00:02:26   store because I was a good show at the

00:02:28   very least like I always enjoy the

00:02:30   actual process of discovering this

00:02:31   whether or not it ends up making my

00:02:33   summer nice or not so nice so what what

00:02:38   is I mean I guess we could we could

00:02:39   probably do a little bit unstructured

00:02:41   here because who knows what there's

00:02:42   gonna be exactly what's like the biggest

00:02:44   thing you're expecting to be different

00:02:46   this year or to be announced for

00:02:48   developer point of view I mean it seems

00:02:51   like the big areas that are being

00:02:55   rumored to be talked about are around

00:02:57   the Sirikit stuff and around I would say

00:03:01   productivity stuff generally especially

00:03:03   on the iPad though right

00:03:06   like those these seems to be like those

00:03:08   are gonna be the if I had a guess the

00:03:10   broad themes of WTC because there's

00:03:13   often kind of a theme and sometimes

00:03:15   there's a like a marketing theme you

00:03:17   know something that you'll see in the

00:03:18   morning and sometimes there's a

00:03:20   technical theme that you'll see in the

00:03:23   afternoon like in the you know in the

00:03:25   State of the Union keynote - like the

00:03:26   thing that they sort of start to move

00:03:27   and focus on like I'm remembering there

00:03:30   was the one year there was the technical

00:03:31   theme it was all about flexible layout

00:03:34   and you know surprise surprise we've got

00:03:36   different sized iPhones that fall so

00:03:39   often there's this kind of this

00:03:40   undercurrent on the technical side that

00:03:42   I was trying to keep an eye on but I

00:03:44   think the two overarching features that

00:03:45   we're going to be kind of hit with a lot

00:03:47   are going to be you know Siri kid stuff

00:03:49   and then you know I've had stuff and

00:03:53   productivity stuff generally like trying

00:03:55   to kind of hit that stuff because it

00:03:56   seems like both of those things are the

00:03:58   areas where there's the most overdue

00:04:01   opportunities like there's lots of

00:04:03   things that Apple could do like there's

00:04:04   always these api's and these things that

00:04:06   I'm sure they could introduce and push

00:04:08   forward with but I think those are the

00:04:10   areas where what they don't have now

00:04:13   feels like a like a whole like something

00:04:17   they need to fill back in and to catch

00:04:18   up and so I would expect that that's

00:04:20   where they've been putting the majority

00:04:23   of their efforts you know for the last

00:04:24   year or so yeah I would I mean just salt

00:04:27   in as the developer of overcast I would

00:04:30   love for them to add more Siri kit

00:04:33   intents because chances are one of the

00:04:36   ones they would add would probably be

00:04:37   some kind of audio

00:04:38   library app kind of thing so that you

00:04:41   could have you know so you could say

00:04:43   things like hey name of assistant play

00:04:46   the latest episode of under the radar in

00:04:48   overcast and have it actually be able to

00:04:51   send my app that command in a structured

00:04:53   fashion and you know have my app be able

00:04:55   to expose its catalogue in such a way

00:04:56   that I can do the recognition for me and

00:04:59   and say exactly which show or exactly

00:05:01   which episode should be played but

00:05:03   that's a lot to build and so like it

00:05:05   makes a lot of sense why that wasn't

00:05:06   there last year in kind of like the the

00:05:08   1.0 version of these features but I

00:05:12   that's something that I really would

00:05:13   expect to be added you know pretty

00:05:15   pretty far up the priority list so

00:05:17   probably this year because it's a very

00:05:19   very demanded thing it is possible as we

00:05:23   expected a little bit last year that

00:05:24   maybe Apple intentionally didn't want to

00:05:27   do that because they wanted to protect

00:05:28   and boost Apple music and have give it

00:05:31   like exclusive Siri access but I think

00:05:33   that's less likely than the other

00:05:35   explanation which is the properties

00:05:36   didn't have time to do it yet and so

00:05:38   we'll see what happens this year but if

00:05:41   that happens that's a game changer

00:05:42   because like basically you know Siri kit

00:05:45   is really really cool for like seven

00:05:48   kinds of apps and if your app does not

00:05:50   do one of those like seven things you

00:05:52   have nothing that you can do with Siri

00:05:54   kit so I'm hoping that you know any

00:05:57   broadening of Siri kit is is potentially

00:06:00   great for lots of people anything that

00:06:01   can expand it to more types of apps

00:06:04   whether it's you know my a specifically

00:06:06   or you know any others like I just want

00:06:09   to see movement there I want it to not

00:06:11   just be a thing that they release once

00:06:12   and then never expand again I want this

00:06:14   to be like every year there's some kind

00:06:16   of new Siri kit you know availability or

00:06:19   you know new intent types that that make

00:06:21   this thing more useful for more kinds of

00:06:24   apps and I think that's very likely to

00:06:25   be a case yeah and I think I also am

00:06:28   curious to see if they continue down the

00:06:32   path of the way they structured the

00:06:35   intent system in iOS 10 where it's very

00:06:40   like it's very rigid and like prescribed

00:06:43   like you can do these following things

00:06:45   and like what's awkward with that and

00:06:47   what I kind of want I'm curious to see

00:06:49   with how they handle it is if they

00:06:50   expand that massively like the number of

00:06:53   like constants that Siri kid is going to

00:06:56   have we're just kind of seem like it

00:06:59   might get out of control like if it's

00:07:01   intact if it's not this just sort of

00:07:03   general general purpose thing that you

00:07:06   have to like specifically to you know

00:07:08   it's like you have these categories and

00:07:09   subcategories and it gets very

00:07:11   structured like I mean they can do that

00:07:13   I mean it reminds me in some ways of

00:07:14   healthkit where you know they have just

00:07:17   hundreds of different sample types and

00:07:19   details that you can set on everything

00:07:22   and like it kind of works there but with

00:07:25   Sirikit like I wonder if that's where

00:07:26   they would go because it seems slightly

00:07:28   unwieldy and kind of limiting but I also

00:07:31   on the flip side I also think of things

00:07:33   like for example if they will get down

00:07:36   the road of doing things in a slightly

00:07:38   more like iOS driven approach I could

00:07:43   also see like for example overcast

00:07:45   incorporate integrates currently with

00:07:47   carplay which means that it exposes its

00:07:51   catalog in a you know in a

00:07:54   machine-readable format to the phone and

00:07:57   you carplay gives you commands in and

00:08:00   out in order to control it and I start I

00:08:02   start to wonder if they'll have that's a

00:08:04   slightly different approach to taking

00:08:06   that thing and like if they just if you

00:08:08   implement carplay you could integrate

00:08:09   with Siri kit because theoretically that

00:08:12   information is available to it and so i

00:08:14   wonder if they'll you know it's a

00:08:16   slightly different approach rather than

00:08:17   pushing all of those details of like you

00:08:20   know what can overcast do with like well

00:08:22   it has an intent for playing does it

00:08:23   have a need to have a separate intent

00:08:25   for pausing for next for adjusting

00:08:28   speeds like are there how are they going

00:08:32   to go into that just in the Sirikit side

00:08:34   versus you know looking in other way

00:08:36   other places and you know I don't know

00:08:38   it's I've played around a little bit

00:08:40   with Sirikit you can have an integration

00:08:43   in pedometer plus plus where you can use

00:08:46   it to start a walking workout on an

00:08:48   Apple watch which was one of the few

00:08:51   intense that like of all the intents

00:08:53   that were

00:08:53   well that was the one of the main ones

00:08:55   that I could like I could do I don't

00:08:57   know if that's used very much I think

00:09:00   the biggest struggle I have with Siri in

00:09:02   general and the Sirikit is Siri itself

00:09:05   needs to be such a neat it would need at

00:09:09   least for my own use you would need to

00:09:11   be a more fundamental part of how I

00:09:13   interact with my iOS devices or may have

00:09:16   a whole ecosystem generally for it to

00:09:19   make sense because right now it's much

00:09:21   easier for me to just raise my wrist

00:09:23   tap the complication and then tap star

00:09:25   walk like that's much more

00:09:27   straightforward and is going to work

00:09:28   every time so um I guess my hope is that

00:09:32   if they're going to go down the road of

00:09:33   expanding surrogate that they are it has

00:09:36   to I think be you know come along with

00:09:38   much broader improvements to Siri in

00:09:42   general to you know to make it a place

00:09:44   that we're hanging out so that

00:09:45   interacting with apps in there you know

00:09:47   makes sense as well or if it doesn't

00:09:49   we'll just sort of end up with the

00:09:50   iMessage app situation where it's like

00:09:53   there's this thing and it's

00:09:54   theoretically very powerful but in

00:09:57   practical use it's not very widely used

00:10:00   and so you know as a developer putting

00:10:03   much time and effort into it like I made

00:10:06   a couple iMessage apps when it first

00:10:07   launched I don't think I'm going to be

00:10:10   probably putting a lot more work into

00:10:11   there because I don't hear from a lot of

00:10:13   customers that they like use it or have

00:10:15   feature requests or issues and even in

00:10:17   my analytics like they're not used too

00:10:19   much and so if Siri ended up going down

00:10:21   that same road like that would be kind

00:10:23   of disappointing and a little like

00:10:25   frustrating to have this game new

00:10:27   capability but it's in this place that

00:10:29   no one goes because it's awkward or they

00:10:32   don't know how to do it or it doesn't

00:10:33   work often enough you know to be

00:10:36   reliable because that's always that's

00:10:38   always the you know the big oh no

00:10:39   whenever Apple releases some kind of

00:10:41   brand new territory or brand new type of

00:10:43   thing you can do a brand new app store

00:10:45   it you never really know and they don't

00:10:48   even really know like is this gonna be a

00:10:50   thing or not you know I think early on

00:10:52   there was an assumption that a brand new

00:10:54   app store would always be a thing

00:10:55   because the early ones were pretty big

00:10:57   because there was all this pent-up

00:10:58   demand and a lot of low-hanging fruit

00:11:00   and then over time as they've they've

00:11:02   brought it and they've made a lot more

00:11:04   like specialized capabilities and

00:11:06   specialized app store

00:11:07   and more specialized platforms like the

00:11:10   TV and the watch and and you know and

00:11:13   then the last year they added the Ibis

00:11:14   app store and and I think what we've

00:11:16   seen from a lot of these is like yeah

00:11:18   well you know it's when it launches its

00:11:20   a big unknown and then afterwards a lot

00:11:23   of them just kind of don't go very far

00:11:25   or they go far but only for very narrow

00:11:28   app types like like on the TV like you

00:11:30   have video apps like video playback apps

00:11:32   and you have basically a handful of

00:11:34   games that are that are decent on it but

00:11:36   not much else like you know when they

00:11:38   demo these things they show like oh

00:11:39   here's like a real estate app and a

00:11:41   shopping app and all these different

00:11:42   things that you can do on your TV but

00:11:44   then most people don't actually do those

00:11:46   things

00:11:46   same thing with messages where like you

00:11:48   know you can make a really complex

00:11:50   advanced app for for iMessage but most

00:11:54   people aren't doing that most people

00:11:56   aren't using those and most people who

00:11:58   aren't finding those or looking for that

00:11:59   it's like they're most people just using

00:12:01   like the built-in stuff and maybe some

00:12:03   stickers and so it's you know you know

00:12:06   but you don't know that when they launch

00:12:08   it you kind of have to take a risk with

00:12:09   some of these new categories because as

00:12:10   we talked about before like there is

00:12:12   potential upside if you guess if you bet

00:12:15   on the right horse and like if you if

00:12:17   they open up something new that ends up

00:12:19   being awesome and really taking off and

00:12:21   if you're there early you have a huge

00:12:23   advantage and so to kind of move this on

00:12:25   a little bit one thing that that I'm a

00:12:27   little bit excited about tentatively is

00:12:29   that over the last couple of releases

00:12:32   they've added in each OS they've added

00:12:35   like extremely specialized extension

00:12:39   types that basically makes sense for

00:12:41   like one app or one kind of app and

00:12:43   nothing else so this would be things

00:12:45   like the Safari content blocker

00:12:47   extension or what they did is last year

00:12:50   phone call blocking extensions and what

00:12:53   this enables is basically like it's like

00:12:55   I've been able like one kind of app but

00:12:58   those one kinds of apps are usually like

00:13:01   game changers for certain people who

00:13:03   need that like I was getting I was

00:13:05   having a huge robocall spam problem like

00:13:07   phone call spam it's getting out of

00:13:09   control in recent years for a lot of

00:13:11   people are and it was hitting me hard

00:13:12   and ever since call blocking extensions

00:13:14   came out last year I've had a massive

00:13:17   weapon against this similarly like you

00:13:18   know the content blockers before that

00:13:20   like

00:13:21   you know before Safari content blockers

00:13:23   you know my whole piece drama side

00:13:24   before counter blockers there was no

00:13:27   good way to control ads or privacy or

00:13:31   data usage in mobile safari and with one

00:13:34   extension point that they made that then

00:13:36   became possible and actually fairly easy

00:13:38   to do so kind of unspecific aliy what

00:13:42   i'm looking forward to this year is to

00:13:43   just see like what other kinds of weird

00:13:45   little extensions are they going to add

00:13:47   to the system because those always

00:13:49   enable new kinds of apps or brand new

00:13:52   types of features and apps that you

00:13:53   could never do before and that's always

00:13:54   exciting to me yeah I mean I always have

00:13:57   I always love playing the game of trying

00:13:59   to guess what those things are and I

00:14:01   think one thing that I was thinking

00:14:03   about recently is it seemed kind of odd

00:14:05   that Apple is never into it's not odd

00:14:08   but it's know worthy that Apple has

00:14:10   never done any integrations with a male

00:14:13   app yeah on the iPhone doesn't even use

00:14:16   a share sheet yet yeah it's very like

00:14:19   that and like understandably in a lot of

00:14:21   ways that like letting a third-party app

00:14:23   have access to your email is you know is

00:14:26   it's a complicated thing I mean

00:14:27   obviously the same times like people you

00:14:30   give your third-party apps access to all

00:14:32   of your photos which are you know in

00:14:35   some ways just as just as a personal or

00:14:37   all of your phone calls or all of your

00:14:39   or all of your web browsing activity

00:14:41   like you know and the way Apple the

00:14:42   apple designs these extension points to

00:14:45   protect people's privacy like a call

00:14:46   blocking extension is not notified on

00:14:48   every call it receives all it does is

00:14:51   provide Apple a block list what you know

00:14:54   when it's asked to and then Apple

00:14:55   actually enforces it same thing with

00:14:57   Safari content blockers where the

00:14:59   content blocker is not itself getting a

00:15:02   feed of all the URLs you're visiting and

00:15:04   say and returning yes or no on all of

00:15:06   them it is again simply supplying like

00:15:08   block patterns in a block list and the

00:15:10   system is doing the enforcement for so

00:15:11   it has no insight into your activity so

00:15:13   if they wanted to do something with mail

00:15:15   extensions which I love that idea

00:15:16   they could do things more like that

00:15:19   where the where what you can do as the

00:15:22   extension provider is limited in a way

00:15:25   that protects user privacy very well

00:15:27   yeah because I doubt we would end up

00:15:30   with something that's like the like mail

00:15:32   kit that's the equivalent of like

00:15:35   photo kit or something where you can

00:15:37   like completely you can read all of

00:15:39   someone's email you can send emails on

00:15:41   their behalf like they've created API is

00:15:44   for that for other content types like

00:15:46   email seems a little a little much and

00:15:49   of course as a result all of the third

00:15:50   party email apps on iPhones you know

00:15:52   they all need all your credentials and

00:15:54   information and like there's a whole

00:15:56   other issue there potentially but it's

00:15:59   it's an area certainly that I think of

00:16:00   that I could see them going into and in

00:16:03   some ways it speaks to the maturity of

00:16:05   the platform that there aren't that many

00:16:07   other areas that I can think of that are

00:16:10   sort of be like obvious new extension

00:16:13   points yeah

00:16:14   like they've done a really I mean it's

00:16:16   it's kind of crazy if you've just for

00:16:17   fun go into Xcode and open like the you

00:16:20   know ad extension panel you know so long

00:16:23   it's so big there is so much stuff that

00:16:26   you can do in there and there's stuff

00:16:27   that like that you forget that you can

00:16:29   even do like there's there stuff that

00:16:30   they mentioned once in a keynote two

00:16:32   years ago and you forgot about an hour

00:16:34   later and you get there oh wow that's

00:16:36   right I can build this thing that's

00:16:38   crazy oh sure I mean it's crazy now even

00:16:41   just like when I build spindly some of

00:16:42   my apps like the number of targets that

00:16:44   yeah are included and it's you have to

00:16:46   know I mean it's gotten a lot better but

00:16:48   I've been dealing with like code signing

00:16:50   and things with these things we're now

00:16:52   you have like six or seven different you

00:16:54   know target things that you need to deal

00:16:56   with and manage and I mean in some ways

00:16:59   you know you all you always hope that

00:17:00   like maybe they'll do something on the

00:17:02   tooling side to improve that but overall

00:17:04   I'd say this extension approach that

00:17:07   they've taken since whenever that inch I

00:17:10   was eight maybe whenever that assay this

00:17:13   came like it seems like it's been a big

00:17:16   win in terms of they've you know created

00:17:18   this mechanism by which you can create

00:17:21   logic and have it tie into different

00:17:23   parts of the OS in a way that is fairly

00:17:27   reliable is fairly isolating and doesn't

00:17:30   require like your main app for example

00:17:33   to be running all the time in the

00:17:35   background which you know we're gonna

00:17:36   add would you know would expect would

00:17:38   have you know battery life concerns you

00:17:40   know like you can add a widget to your

00:17:43   app that you know just sits there and

00:17:45   it's only active whenever the the

00:17:47   widgets are shown

00:17:48   but it doesn't necessarily you know and

00:17:50   it doesn't fire up your main process and

00:17:52   do all that kind of stuff like it so you

00:17:54   can build these really focused detailed

00:17:56   things and yeah so I mean I would expect

00:17:59   and hope we would kind of you know add a

00:18:00   few more extension points but it is

00:18:04   funny to think at what point like did

00:18:07   they run out of those do they run out of

00:18:09   like the the obvious and impactful

00:18:12   extension points and I mean I don't

00:18:14   think we're there yet certainly but it

00:18:16   is certainly something that you know

00:18:17   like iOS is turning 11 or whatever it is

00:18:20   like it's getting old it's it's you know

00:18:22   it's heading off to high school now it's

00:18:24   it's well on its way to adolescence so I

00:18:27   mean maybe we'll have some awkward

00:18:29   puberty kind of like growing pains kind

00:18:31   of situations but I think that was iOS 7

00:18:33   that was iOS 7 it started orally but

00:18:39   yeah but it does feel like it's more

00:18:43   mature I mean in some ways it makes

00:18:45   reminds me of the Mac right like at what

00:18:46   point does iOS have that kind of

00:18:49   stability in capability that you know

00:18:53   Mac oh the Mac has right now and you

00:18:56   know I don't know if we're quite there

00:18:57   yet but I think we're certainly getting

00:18:58   closer to there yeah we're certainly

00:19:00   like closer to that then to the

00:19:02   beginning you know but it but if they

00:19:04   actually do the the semi rumored things

00:19:07   about you know promoting the use of

00:19:09   files and interact communication and

00:19:11   data sharing kind of rethinking some of

00:19:13   that file and document model in iOS that

00:19:15   also could enable all sorts of new types

00:19:17   of apps and all sorts of advances to

00:19:20   existing applet that could be a huge

00:19:22   change to the OS and and especially from

00:19:25   the user point of view and that you know

00:19:27   just even if we could do a certain thing

00:19:29   before if it's now like way easier for

00:19:32   people to do that alone can change

00:19:34   markets and can change what kind of apps

00:19:36   people can practically make and sell and

00:19:38   and and survive from so that is all very

00:19:40   promising like if any of that stuff

00:19:42   happens but we'll see in a responsive

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00:20:41   show and all of real AFM so there's also

00:20:45   you know in addition to like big things

00:20:47   in iOS I'm also just kind of looking

00:20:50   forward to the SDK changes you know

00:20:53   every year there's some kind of like you

00:20:55   know new sdk new api new UI kit widgets

00:20:58   and stuff that make things better or

00:21:00   easier or enable new uses and i'm always

00:21:03   looking forward to this especially

00:21:04   because this year it there is the

00:21:06   rumblings of a like mid-level redesigned

00:21:08   happening system-wide and that usually

00:21:10   comes with some cool new widgets and and

00:21:12   stock controllers and things like that

00:21:14   as well and you know kind of the design

00:21:17   trend that's in right now involves

00:21:19   things and this is kind of i tried to do

00:21:21   with overcast but involves things that

00:21:22   kind of looked like apple maps right now

00:21:24   where you have like these like sliding

00:21:25   sheets and everything's kind of curvy

00:21:27   and everything's kind of like you know

00:21:29   it slides up with depth but not

00:21:30   translucency and it's kind of like

00:21:33   moving around these these swiping cards

00:21:35   and doing this with stock uikit now is a

00:21:38   lot of manual work it's a lot of custom

00:21:41   work and so if they are redesigning the

00:21:43   OS to be more like that i would love to

00:21:46   see sdk to basically make that stuff

00:21:49   easy and standard to have like this is

00:21:52   now your like UI card controller or

00:21:54   whatever they would call it you know and

00:21:56   then have stuff like that happen because

00:21:58   if you're designing an app today that

00:22:00   that you want to feel new and modern

00:22:02   that's the kind of stuff you have to do

00:22:04   and if they build it in it becomes way

00:22:07   easier and it really and it standardizes

00:22:09   the implementations so they all feel the

00:22:11   same and they all work the same which is

00:22:13   better for everybody so i'm I'm very

00:22:15   much

00:22:15   looking forward to the potential of that

00:22:17   yeah and I think too I always am hopeful

00:22:22   for them to find the areas that are

00:22:25   these like little pain points that these

00:22:27   aren't things that would even yeah

00:22:29   they're not gonna show up on the

00:22:30   keynotes they're not gonna show up on

00:22:32   that thing at the State of the Union

00:22:33   like these are just these little like

00:22:35   pain points that they can alleviate like

00:22:37   in some ways it makes me think of what I

00:22:39   won my my favorite changes are ones

00:22:41   where I can remove a third party library

00:22:45   or dependency for my app look like just

00:22:47   instead switch over to using there it's

00:22:49   you know like I think of things like a

00:22:52   like a blocking progress HUD which is

00:22:56   something that like most apps at some

00:22:58   point need to integrate because you have

00:23:00   some part of your app where you know you

00:23:02   need to say like you need to block the

00:23:04   user from doing things while you do some

00:23:05   operation that takes a little bit of

00:23:07   time and like that's like there is no

00:23:11   built-in UI way to do that and so you

00:23:13   end up with like hundreds of different

00:23:14   third-party universes of that and or you

00:23:17   can build your own and add a hundred and

00:23:19   first or I think of things like like

00:23:23   with all the rappers that exist around

00:23:25   keychain access and it makes me think

00:23:28   like when are we gonna get like hey just

00:23:30   a nice clean it you know interface

00:23:33   that's not based on the audio low-level

00:23:36   see stuff that we end up you know

00:23:38   because ultimately I know it's just the

00:23:40   further my first includes is I include a

00:23:42   wrapper for keychain because I'm gonna

00:23:44   need to store credentials and purse you

00:23:45   know of like you know in sensitive data

00:23:48   somewhere and doing it the other way

00:23:50   like it isn't so much that I can't or is

00:23:52   that I worry about doing it wrong that

00:23:54   you know it's it's you know they're very

00:23:56   it's the the the whole point is that

00:23:57   this is a sensitive data and I want to

00:23:59   do it properly and so and if using a

00:24:01   wrapper it's like I'd love to see little

00:24:02   things like that like these little bits

00:24:05   of API that just make things better and

00:24:07   then I think like you're saying yeah

00:24:08   like if they're if they can if they have

00:24:11   a direction they would like developers

00:24:13   to head from a UI perspective making it

00:24:16   so that you know in the same way that

00:24:17   you have to build it yourself it's much

00:24:21   better if it's built in because that

00:24:23   especially I would say they've gotten a

00:24:25   lot better too of when they do introduce

00:24:27   new stuff like that they make

00:24:29   extensible to a degree that you can

00:24:31   still kind of make it your own and tweak

00:24:34   it and customize it and hack around it

00:24:36   less in a way that like collection views

00:24:39   for example are way more extensible like

00:24:41   sometimes in ways that make them hard to

00:24:42   understand but they're way more

00:24:44   extensible than you you a UI tableview

00:24:45   was and I think that's a lesson that

00:24:47   they seem to be learning around making

00:24:49   when they add a new bit of UI like that

00:24:52   you know they make it really extensible

00:24:54   so that everybody can use it and then

00:24:56   everybody can benefit from it and I

00:24:58   think more importantly so then customers

00:25:00   and users of iPhones have a much more

00:25:03   consistent experience that you know you

00:25:05   you don't have these weird edge cases or

00:25:07   like well in this one I do this and it

00:25:09   just feels different or they even just

00:25:11   like the physics of it like the way it

00:25:13   slides up and down is different and

00:25:15   anytime you have those differences like

00:25:17   that's not as good as if every app kind

00:25:18   of gets the same thing and then every

00:25:20   you know every app can benefit from it

00:25:22   as it improves over time I actually did

00:25:24   have on my list here will this be the

00:25:26   year they finally resolved the tableview

00:25:29   slash collection view discrepancy in

00:25:31   some way you know probably by by making

00:25:34   by either making table view like a

00:25:35   special collection view subclass or just

00:25:38   by a deprecating table view and making

00:25:39   it and just kind of adding things to

00:25:40   collection view layouts that can make

00:25:42   that easy to do but I would love to see

00:25:44   some motion there I would also on my

00:25:47   rest of my hit list here it's pretty

00:25:48   quick I would love to see the

00:25:50   system-wide dark mode that's been

00:25:51   rumored forever that could be nice to

00:25:53   have and to have like kind of a system

00:25:56   toggle kind of like the dynamic text

00:25:57   toggle where you can you can just make

00:25:59   your app respond to that and you don't

00:26:00   have to build UI for that and then my

00:26:03   stretch goal here is it has seemed like

00:26:05   in the last year or two

00:26:08   like fairly recently Apple has kind of

00:26:10   revitalized the Mac in in some way and

00:26:13   started putting you know a lot of a lot

00:26:15   of big effort behind the Mac again I

00:26:16   would love to see and and I'm not asking

00:26:19   for UI kit on the Mac that's that's a

00:26:21   big stretch oh I know I know

00:26:22   there's lots of reasons why that will

00:26:23   probably never happen and some of them

00:26:26   are even good reasons but I would like

00:26:28   to see the needless distance between app

00:26:31   kit and UI kit reduced so because

00:26:35   there's so many classes that are similar

00:26:37   but just different for minor or legacy

00:26:41   reasons like and as

00:26:42   color versus UI color and as image

00:26:44   versus UI and makes things like that

00:26:46   that are just kind of like needlessly

00:26:48   different I would love to see just let's

00:26:50   reduce some of those differences let's

00:26:52   let's get some kind some kind of

00:26:54   indication here of making uniting these

00:26:57   two platforms on a on some level just to

00:27:00   make it a little bit less painful to

00:27:02   work between them and to kind of then

00:27:04   encourage more Mac development I would

00:27:06   love to see that that's kind of a

00:27:07   stretch goal of mine but I'm not sure

00:27:08   how realistic that is yeah and I mean

00:27:11   it's I would say is one of these things

00:27:13   that seems to be a slow march that

00:27:16   towards that we're you know almost ap is

00:27:19   now that like all of the new stuff with

00:27:22   if it's on both platforms it tends to be

00:27:25   fairly consistent across both platforms

00:27:27   and it's like the yeah whether they will

00:27:29   do through the work of slowly kind of on

00:27:33   undoing some of the older stuff to make

00:27:36   it more consistent and exactly how they

00:27:38   do that who knows but it is definitely

00:27:40   something that it feels like a that this

00:27:43   kind of awkward thing that all of the

00:27:45   modern or I don't modernist era are the

00:27:48   wrong word all of their new platforms

00:27:49   are UI kit based you know in terms of

00:27:51   the the watch the iPhone and TV OS

00:27:56   they're not it's not that they're like

00:27:59   they don't use UI kit necessarily but

00:28:00   they all seem to live in that family and

00:28:03   will like use UI colors and then none of

00:28:05   it's based on the Mac stuff and it feels

00:28:08   like that Mathematica comes the odd man

00:28:09   out that you can have a library now that

00:28:12   you could use across all of their

00:28:14   platforms except the Mac and that that

00:28:17   odd man out Ennis it's definitely

00:28:19   something that I think would be great

00:28:20   for them to resolve yeah and it's hard

00:28:22   because you know a part of the reasons

00:28:24   why the Mac has different stuff is

00:28:26   because in many cases it can do a lot

00:28:28   more like it has to accommodate more use

00:28:29   cases or more you know configuration

00:28:32   options and things like that

00:28:33   but I think that there are ways to

00:28:35   resolve this and I think it would be

00:28:36   really nice for the entire ecosystem

00:28:38   including Apple's internal development

00:28:40   if this was resolved alright any closing

00:28:42   thoughts I'm looking forward to next

00:28:43   week we're gonna be doing a live show at

00:28:45   cocoa conf next door we're happy to see

00:28:48   anybody next week oh we really look

00:28:49   forward to you know if you if you want

00:28:51   if you see us and you want to go up and

00:28:52   say hi please do we love that don't feel

00:28:55   bad or guilty or awkward

00:28:56   just come up and say hi and yeah any

00:28:58   closing thoughts yeah no I mean I think

00:29:00   that is I would say I'm looking forward

00:29:02   to next week I hope to always enjoy like

00:29:05   it is a a rare thing to like I love

00:29:09   meeting listeners I love running into

00:29:11   people who listen to the show or you

00:29:14   know know what I do and WBC week is

00:29:16   always you know it's a special week

00:29:18   because it's the one week where the

00:29:19   people around me actually know that

00:29:21   actually like care about what I care

00:29:23   about and if anything it's gonna be kind

00:29:26   of interesting because I get the

00:29:27   impression that we're going to take over

00:29:30   downtown San Jose it'll just be

00:29:32   developers as far as the eye can see

00:29:34   which is kind of exciting in some ways

00:29:35   that will just kind of everyone everyone

00:29:37   around me will be interested in the same

00:29:40   stuff well we're out of time so thank

00:29:42   you for listening everybody and we will

00:29:44   see you maybe literally some of you next

00:29:46   week bye