Under the Radar

00:00:00 ◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show about

00:00:01 ◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:03 ◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

00:00:06 ◼   ► the radar it's never longer than 30

00:00:07 ◼   ► minutes so let's get started so we

00:00:10 ◼   ► finally have the ability to respond to

00:00:12 ◼   ► reviews in the App Store yeah waiting

00:00:15 ◼   ► for this for a while we probably thought

00:00:17 ◼   ► it would never come it was announced

00:00:18 ◼   ► what about two months ago or something

00:00:20 ◼   ► like that now we finally have it the way

00:00:22 ◼   ► the implement of this system is actually

00:00:24 ◼   ► pretty good you know it's pretty much

00:00:25 ◼   ► what you would hope it would be in that

00:00:28 ◼   ► when you respond to a review Apple

00:00:31 ◼   ► notifies the user with an email and says

00:00:33 ◼   ► hey the developer responded with this

00:00:35 ◼   ► would you know click here if you'd like

00:00:36 ◼   ► to update your review and the person you

00:00:39 ◼   ► know so it's actually like it's a it's a

00:00:41 ◼   ► pretty nice system all the reviews are

00:00:43 ◼   ► in iTunes Connect you can you can you

00:00:44 ◼   ► know you can browse all the all the

00:00:46 ◼   ► regions and everything so I think they

00:00:49 ◼   ► did a pretty good job with it and now

00:00:51 ◼   ► it's I think the interesting part to

00:00:53 ◼   ► discuss today is now that we have this

00:00:56 ◼   ► system as developers what are the best

00:00:59 ◼   ► ways we can actually use it you know

00:01:00 ◼   ► what should we do what shouldn't we do

00:01:02 ◼   ► what are the risks what's what's worth

00:01:04 ◼   ► doing and I think there's there's a good

00:01:08 ◼   ► approximately 30 minute discussion to be

00:01:09 ◼   ► had there or do you think I think so

00:01:11 ◼   ► yeah

00:01:12 ◼   ► and it's I think I would think I would

00:01:15 ◼   ► absolutely agree with that I'm very glad

00:01:16 ◼   ► they've done this and I think the way

00:01:18 ◼   ► they did it works well that's you know

00:01:22 ◼   ► it's early days still but it seems like

00:01:24 ◼   ► it wasn't one of these things where you

00:01:26 ◼   ► know we finally got what we were asking

00:01:27 ◼   ► for but they did it in a way that was

00:01:28 ◼   ► awkward or cumbersome or annoying for

00:01:30 ◼   ► the most part like the interface and

00:01:32 ◼   ► iTunes Connect so if you just as a in

00:01:35 ◼   ► case your you kind of find this and you

00:01:37 ◼   ► haven't if you go to a particular app

00:01:39 ◼   ► you go to the activity tab and then you

00:01:41 ◼   ► go to ratings interviews which is an

00:01:43 ◼   ► area that has actually always been there

00:01:44 ◼   ► or spin it for a very long time but now

00:01:47 ◼   ► suddenly there's a reply button at the

00:01:49 ◼   ► side of each review as well as a whole

00:01:52 ◼   ► lot of really good filters that you can

00:01:54 ◼   ► apply to it so you can see all your

00:01:55 ◼   ► reviews you can see reviews that you've

00:01:57 ◼   ► responded to reviews that you haven't

00:01:59 ◼   ► responded to reviews that were changed

00:02:01 ◼   ► as a result or after you responded to

00:02:04 ◼   ► them which is also really helpful thing

00:02:06 ◼   ► so you can get a sense of if it's

00:02:07 ◼   ► actually working as well as filtering

00:02:09 ◼   ► you know by different versions of the

00:02:11 ◼   ► app or different you know

00:02:12 ◼   ► how critical they are like if you want

00:02:14 ◼   ► to see all your one-star reviews your

00:02:15 ◼   ► five-star reviews it's really good solid

00:02:18 ◼   ► like it like you would hope interface

00:02:20 ◼   ► and I mean the only slight Neagle I have

00:02:22 ◼   ► about it which is only really applies to

00:02:24 ◼   ► me because I have so many apps is that I

00:02:26 ◼   ► have to go through each app individually

00:02:28 ◼   ► to check on the new reviews rather than

00:02:31 ◼   ► there being a consolidated interface for

00:02:33 ◼   ► it but that's just because I'm strange

00:02:34 ◼   ► and have dozens of apps but otherwise

00:02:37 ◼   ► it's it's a you know overall

00:02:39 ◼   ► mechanically is really nice and they

00:02:41 ◼   ► show up pretty well in the in the App

00:02:42 ◼   ► Store I always kind of wonder how many

00:02:45 ◼   ► people actually read the reviews in the

00:02:47 ◼   ► App Store versus just looking at the

00:02:49 ◼   ► star rating but you know it shows up

00:02:50 ◼   ► that it truncates the review you

00:02:53 ◼   ► responded to like it always does at

00:02:55 ◼   ► about three lines and then below it it

00:02:57 ◼   ► just says like develop a response and

00:02:58 ◼   ► you know your response shows up right

00:03:01 ◼   ► below there and this probably actually

00:03:04 ◼   ► were a little pro tip that I thought of

00:03:06 ◼   ► when I started doing my reviews response

00:03:08 ◼   ► that it makes I think once I thought it

00:03:11 ◼   ► was like oh of course that's where I

00:03:13 ◼   ► should start

00:03:13 ◼   ► because right now you probably have an

00:03:16 ◼   ► app with you know if your fin app of any

00:03:18 ◼   ► volume you have you know maybe a

00:03:19 ◼   ► hundreds of reviews to look at it's like

00:03:21 ◼   ► which one should I start looking at for

00:03:23 ◼   ► responses and I'd the first thing I did

00:03:25 ◼   ► is just opened the App Store go over to

00:03:28 ◼   ► the reviews tab and see which are the

00:03:29 ◼   ► first ones to show up in that list

00:03:31 ◼   ► exactly because that is by far the most

00:03:35 ◼   ► likely reviews that anyone is ever going

00:03:36 ◼   ► to read you know it's very unlikely that

00:03:39 ◼   ► people are going to be paging through

00:03:41 ◼   ► all the way to the bottom of that list

00:03:43 ◼   ► like maybe but that remembers especially

00:03:45 ◼   ► that number one review below your star

00:03:48 ◼   ► rating make sure that there's a good

00:03:51 ◼   ► response to that because often that

00:03:52 ◼   ► Ravech can often also be slightly

00:03:55 ◼   ► critical because I think the sorting of

00:03:58 ◼   ► that list is not chronological I think

00:04:00 ◼   ► it's it's most helpful yeah but it's

00:04:03 ◼   ► kind of vague like I don't I don't think

00:04:04 ◼   ► that's purely based on like the number

00:04:06 ◼   ► of like up votes and down votes and like

00:04:07 ◼   ► the-- was this helpful thing I don't

00:04:09 ◼   ► think it's only that I think there's

00:04:10 ◼   ► other factors it's hard to tell but if

00:04:13 ◼   ► you leave the sorting in iTunes Connect

00:04:15 ◼   ► at the default that it loads up with

00:04:17 ◼   ► it's that sorting so and you can always

00:04:19 ◼   ► you know go on your phone and look at

00:04:20 ◼   ► the app sort of to just verify that

00:04:22 ◼   ► that's still the way it's sorted but

00:04:24 ◼   ► yeah that because like I feel like you

00:04:26 ◼   ► have to

00:04:26 ◼   ► decide as you know as a way to spend

00:04:30 ◼   ► your time and as a way to to take the

00:04:32 ◼   ► risks which we'll talk about of this

00:04:33 ◼   ► system you have to decide like are you

00:04:35 ◼   ► mostly doing it to address that

00:04:38 ◼   ► particular reviewer and to talk to them

00:04:41 ◼   ► directly or are you mostly doing it to

00:04:44 ◼   ► show other people who are reading the

00:04:46 ◼   ► reviews you know your point of view on

00:04:49 ◼   ► it or to correct falsehoods or to appear

00:04:52 ◼   ► to be caring about your customers or

00:04:54 ◼   ► things like that so if you're mostly

00:04:55 ◼   ► responding to reviews like to the public

00:04:58 ◼   ► basically in that in that latter way

00:05:00 ◼   ► rather than to the individual reviewers

00:05:02 ◼   ► then it makes sense to really only spend

00:05:05 ◼   ► your time addressing a few of the top

00:05:08 ◼   ► ones in each region because again as you

00:05:10 ◼   ► said like they're they're probably most

00:05:12 ◼   ► people are not going to be paging

00:05:14 ◼   ► through you know 200 reviews of an app

00:05:16 ◼   ► like that's you know if you're lucky

00:05:17 ◼   ► enough to have that many it it's it's

00:05:20 ◼   ► gonna be the top handful at most and

00:05:23 ◼   ► after that it's severely diminishing

00:05:25 ◼   ► returns so it doesn't make sense to

00:05:28 ◼   ► spend a ton of time responding to every

00:05:31 ◼   ► single review from you know the last

00:05:33 ◼   ► four years or whatever because most

00:05:36 ◼   ► people are never gonna see that yeah and

00:05:38 ◼   ► I think - it's my the perspective that I

00:05:40 ◼   ► take with these things is that these are

00:05:43 ◼   ► marketing statements first and foremost

00:05:45 ◼   ► they can be helpful to the person that

00:05:49 ◼   ► I'm responding to but because this is a

00:05:52 ◼   ► public facing this is text that is

00:05:56 ◼   ► public facing that is on least on the

00:05:58 ◼   ► app store page for my app which is like

00:06:01 ◼   ► where I put all of my other marketing

00:06:02 ◼   ► copy like it is important that I that

00:06:04 ◼   ► these are written in such a way that

00:06:06 ◼   ► they are you know useful and helpful to

00:06:10 ◼   ► anybody who's trying to think about if

00:06:12 ◼   ► they want to download my app and so

00:06:14 ◼   ► which essentially becomes marketing and

00:06:16 ◼   ► you can still you know write them to the

00:06:18 ◼   ► person you just not like this has to be

00:06:20 ◼   ► some kind of stilted a PR speak type of

00:06:23 ◼   ► response but it's in the back of your

00:06:26 ◼   ► mind when you're writing these reviews

00:06:27 ◼   ► it's you know how would I write this I'm

00:06:30 ◼   ► less writing this to this one person and

00:06:33 ◼   ► then I am to the hopefully hundreds or

00:06:36 ◼   ► thousands of people who might read this

00:06:37 ◼   ► when they're browsing the city of the

00:06:39 ◼   ► app

00:06:40 ◼   ► because the strange thing with reviews

00:06:41 ◼   ► is they're very like point in time you

00:06:44 ◼   ► know someone the Kino came you know it's

00:06:47 ◼   ► a say that you have the classic kind of

00:06:49 ◼   ► like the one star it's like I hated this

00:06:52 ◼   ► app it was always useless I deleted it

00:06:55 ◼   ► right away and they leave that as a

00:06:56 ◼   ► review well that user is unlikely to

00:06:59 ◼   ► come back they've deleted the app like

00:07:01 ◼   ► you're kind of done with them you can

00:07:04 ◼   ► still usefully write a response to that

00:07:06 ◼   ► where you might show interest in terms

00:07:08 ◼   ► of saying I'm so sorry you had a bad

00:07:10 ◼   ► experience if you have any problem if

00:07:12 ◼   ► you have specific concerns or complaints

00:07:13 ◼   ► you know by all means email me here's my

00:07:16 ◼   ► support address or something like that

00:07:18 ◼   ► which is a marketing message that I'm

00:07:21 ◼   ► engaged I'm interested I care about my

00:07:23 ◼   ► users even if this one person had a bad

00:07:25 ◼   ► experience which can be useful or

00:07:27 ◼   ► someone who you know I wish it did X it

00:07:30 ◼   ► doesn't one star and you can respond to

00:07:32 ◼   ► the person say hey actually it does or

00:07:34 ◼   ► that's great that's a great suggestion

00:07:35 ◼   ► we'll see if we can work that into a

00:07:37 ◼   ► future update maybe but whatever that is

00:07:39 ◼   ► you're writing these with the

00:07:41 ◼   ► expectation of you know someone is

00:07:43 ◼   ► opening the App Store they're going to

00:07:45 ◼   ► reviews they're reading these reviews

00:07:46 ◼   ► especially if they're reading a negative

00:07:48 ◼   ► review it's having a slight counterpoint

00:07:51 ◼   ► that's right below it something that

00:07:52 ◼   ► they can at least see a response to so

00:07:55 ◼   ► it doesn't just stand there on its own

00:07:57 ◼   ► as as a negative message in deciding

00:08:01 ◼   ► which ones to respond to I've seen a lot

00:08:04 ◼   ► of developers talk about you know on

00:08:06 ◼   ► Twitter or on different podcasts I've

00:08:08 ◼   ► seen a lot of people mention like the

00:08:09 ◼   ► idea of well I don't want to like set

00:08:11 ◼   ► the wrong expectations of my customers

00:08:13 ◼   ► or like train people to expect certain

00:08:15 ◼   ► things will always get responses or

00:08:17 ◼   ► won't always get responses or whatever

00:08:19 ◼   ► else or you know one thing you think

00:08:20 ◼   ► about is like if you respond to every

00:08:23 ◼   ► review that might create an incentive

00:08:25 ◼   ► for people to one-star review you to

00:08:27 ◼   ► just get it get your attention

00:08:28 ◼   ► and because they know you're listening I

00:08:30 ◼   ► think this these are all wonderful

00:08:32 ◼   ► concepts but I think in reality this is

00:08:35 ◼   ► out of our control because the reality

00:08:37 ◼   ► is whatever standards that people will

00:08:40 ◼   ► expect whatever whether people will will

00:08:43 ◼   ► expect reviews or will expect responses

00:08:45 ◼   ► to their reviews or not whether they

00:08:47 ◼   ► will you know think that that reviewing

00:08:50 ◼   ► your app or especially one star on your

00:08:52 ◼   ► app will get your attention

00:08:54 ◼   ► that will be decided globally like among

00:08:57 ◼   ► the entire app store and just the people

00:09:00 ◼   ► using it like their thoughts and you

00:09:02 ◼   ► know the kind of norms and culture that

00:09:04 ◼   ► comes around that whatever you do with

00:09:07 ◼   ► your individual app is not going to

00:09:08 ◼   ► affect that at all like it like whatever

00:09:10 ◼   ► people will come to expect with whether

00:09:13 ◼   ► they get responses or not and whether

00:09:14 ◼   ► it's worth one starring and yelling at

00:09:16 ◼   ► people or not that that's out of our

00:09:18 ◼   ► hands that's being decided it's already

00:09:20 ◼   ► been decided like it's that that battle

00:09:23 ◼   ► is over people already we're using

00:09:25 ◼   ► reviews you know angry one-star reviews

00:09:27 ◼   ► to try to get our attention they already

00:09:29 ◼   ► do the thing right they hold the star

00:09:30 ◼   ► hostage and can leave it if you're lucky

00:09:32 ◼   ► if they only hold one star hostage like

00:09:34 ◼   ► you know that's that's out of our hands

00:09:37 ◼   ► and so whether whether or not you

00:09:39 ◼   ► respond to your reviews or how many of

00:09:42 ◼   ► your reviews you respond to has nothing

00:09:45 ◼   ► to do with what your customers expect

00:09:46 ◼   ► from you and you are not setting their

00:09:49 ◼   ► expectations or setting their incentives

00:09:50 ◼   ► the entire app store is so you you

00:09:53 ◼   ► should probably just go along with what

00:09:55 ◼   ► people will expect to happen regardless

00:09:58 ◼   ► of what that is yeah and I think too

00:10:00 ◼   ► it's also important to keep in mind how

00:10:04 ◼   ► small a proportion of your user base you

00:10:08 ◼   ► were talking about here yeah like it is

00:10:11 ◼   ► easy I think we can this is a part of

00:10:13 ◼   ► why when I say like I think this is

00:10:15 ◼   ► first and foremost a marketing thing and

00:10:17 ◼   ► why I was really hopeful that one day we

00:10:19 ◼   ► would be able to respond to reviews is a

00:10:21 ◼   ► very small percentage of your users can

00:10:24 ◼   ► have a disproportionate impact on your

00:10:28 ◼   ► appearance in the app store you know in

00:10:31 ◼   ► terms of I I have actually looked at

00:10:34 ◼   ► what the numbers are but I imagine it's

00:10:35 ◼   ► you know at least hundreds if not

00:10:38 ◼   ► thousands to one for people who actually

00:10:41 ◼   ► leave a review in the App Store and

00:10:42 ◼   ► amongst those the vast majority leave

00:10:46 ◼   ► just star ratings rather than words

00:10:49 ◼   ► so you're ending up with you know a

00:10:51 ◼   ► fraction of a percentage probably of

00:10:53 ◼   ► your users that are leaving these

00:10:55 ◼   ► leaving these written reviews that get

00:10:57 ◼   ► responses and you know the vast majority

00:11:00 ◼   ► of my support like my actual customer

00:11:02 ◼   ► support is going to come through the

00:11:05 ◼   ► support links and things within the apps

00:11:07 ◼   ► itself

00:11:07 ◼   ► they're not going to be coming through

00:11:09 ◼   ► the app store and it's like my goal is

00:11:10 ◼   ► in a weird way with the fees it's like

00:11:14 ◼   ► they're it's like it's it's damage

00:11:15 ◼   ► control in some ways because if someone

00:11:17 ◼   ► writes a glowing review five stars this

00:11:19 ◼   ► is awesome like there's nothing really

00:11:20 ◼   ► for me to do and like at throwing in it

00:11:22 ◼   ► like thinks that's awesome like that

00:11:25 ◼   ► feels a little weird and like empty if

00:11:28 ◼   ► there's a five-star review that has a

00:11:29 ◼   ► question in it answering the question

00:11:31 ◼   ► maybe make sense you know but mostly

00:11:33 ◼   ► what this is it's a tool for me to clear

00:11:35 ◼   ► up misunderstandings or clear up issues

00:11:39 ◼   ► where you know somebody is just saying

00:11:43 ◼   ► something that's untrue or you know like

00:11:45 ◼   ► they're missing the point or they didn't

00:11:46 ◼   ► find the feature like it's a way for me

00:11:48 ◼   ► to communicate not to that person I mean

00:11:50 ◼   ► I want to tell that person but like

00:11:52 ◼   ► that's one person out of you know out of

00:11:54 ◼   ► thousands that I can hopefully help

00:11:56 ◼   ► which is you know nice but it's not

00:11:58 ◼   ► nearly as impactful as the you know

00:12:01 ◼   ► hopefully hundreds or thousands of

00:12:02 ◼   ► people who will come to your app store

00:12:04 ◼   ► page and you can communicate to them

00:12:05 ◼   ► whatever that message is and so don't

00:12:08 ◼   ► get too stuck either on like the you

00:12:12 ◼   ► know it's like training this individual

00:12:14 ◼   ► person like it's such a small proportion

00:12:16 ◼   ► of your actual users that it probably

00:12:19 ◼   ► matters less there you know and if

00:12:20 ◼   ► anything it's like if you want to train

00:12:22 ◼   ► your users to get in contact with you

00:12:24 ◼   ► and they have problems or wherever that

00:12:25 ◼   ► is it's like be responsive to your email

00:12:27 ◼   ► I suppose like and make that a place

00:12:30 ◼   ► that people can feel like they can vent

00:12:31 ◼   ► their you know their unease or problems

00:12:35 ◼   ► they have in the app but like yeah don't

00:12:37 ◼   ► wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle

00:12:38 ◼   ► about like oh it's like it's you know

00:12:40 ◼   ► trying to be clever about this it's like

00:12:42 ◼   ► no just look at your reviews and see

00:12:44 ◼   ► which ones you can add value to in

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00:14:10 ◼   ► Linode I host everything there I love

00:14:12 ◼   ► hosting things there it's actually

00:14:14 ◼   ► pleasant it's a great service to use I

00:14:16 ◼   ► have really no issues with it over the

00:14:19 ◼   ► years I've been there for quite some

00:14:20 ◼   ► time now and I just love it all of

00:14:22 ◼   ► overcast is there it's so nice to use as

00:14:26 ◼   ► a listener of this show we sign up at

00:14:28 ◼   ► lynda.com slash radar u n will be

00:14:31 ◼   ► supporting us but you also got $20

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00:14:42 ◼   ► advantage of that $20 credit or use the

00:14:44 ◼   ► promo code radar 2017 at checkout thank

00:14:47 ◼   ► you so much to Linode for supporting

00:14:49 ◼   ► this show and everything i host on the

00:14:51 ◼   ► internet so I think it probably makes

00:14:54 ◼   ► sense now to dive into just a little bit

00:14:56 ◼   ► of the kind of what are the good 1 good

00:14:58 ◼   ► reviews to respond to and we sure you

00:15:01 ◼   ► know ones that we should just let be and

00:15:04 ◼   ► like the first ones that come to mind on

00:15:05 ◼   ► the let it go side of things is being

00:15:09 ◼   ► very careful to get sucked into like I

00:15:14 ◼   ► don't know like snarkiness or people who

00:15:17 ◼   ► are just like there's sometimes you just

00:15:18 ◼   ► people just like writing reviews that

00:15:20 ◼   ► are mean or angry or aren't really on

00:15:24 ◼   ► topic and in general it's like as with

00:15:28 ◼   ► most things on the internet like arguing

00:15:29 ◼   ► with people on the internet is never

00:15:32 ◼   ► really a good idea and so whenever I see

00:15:34 ◼   ► these kind of

00:15:35 ◼   ► it's probably best to be like you know

00:15:36 ◼   ► there's not much that I could gain from

00:15:39 ◼   ► diving into this like maybe if it was

00:15:42 ◼   ► the number one like if it showed up at

00:15:43 ◼   ► the test the top review in the App Store

00:15:45 ◼   ► it might be something that would be

00:15:47 ◼   ► worthwhile trying to kind of you know at

00:15:49 ◼   ► least show an engagement there but you

00:15:52 ◼   ► know trying to go back and forth with

00:15:54 ◼   ► somebody who clearly is just kind of mad

00:15:57 ◼   ► and was using this review as a way to

00:15:59 ◼   ► vent that is unlikely to be productive

00:16:04 ◼   ► whereas probably good reviews to talk

00:16:06 ◼   ► about are ones where there's a clear

00:16:09 ◼   ► misunderstanding your question and like

00:16:11 ◼   ► as I've been kind of browsing a little

00:16:12 ◼   ► bit in these these are the areas that I

00:16:15 ◼   ► think are the best opportunities for us

00:16:17 ◼   ► that you know it's it when you look at a

00:16:19 ◼   ► review and someone is saying you know

00:16:22 ◼   ► it's like I mean in some ways it's like

00:16:24 ◼   ► the old hostage star situation where

00:16:26 ◼   ► someone's like oh man so forced our app

00:16:28 ◼   ► it'd be five-star if it did X and if it

00:16:30 ◼   ► actually does do X like if it's just

00:16:32 ◼   ► like oh sorry that was so sorry the UI

00:16:34 ◼   ► mid you know didn't help you find the

00:16:36 ◼   ► feature if you go to the third tab or

00:16:39 ◼   ► you go into settings you can in turn

00:16:40 ◼   ► that on that's a great example of a

00:16:43 ◼   ► place that you can you know as from a

00:16:45 ◼   ► marketing perspective that's useful

00:16:46 ◼   ► because if someone was gonna say oh I

00:16:48 ◼   ► was I like this app but according to

00:16:50 ◼   ► this review it doesn't actually you know

00:16:52 ◼   ► do this kind of feature and at O the

00:16:54 ◼   ► developer says it does great like that's

00:16:57 ◼   ► or even probably more over it would be

00:16:59 ◼   ► you know because these do I think

00:17:01 ◼   ► they're written reviews stick around

00:17:03 ◼   ► beyond multiple versions I think I don't

00:17:07 ◼   ► know it's and that could obviously

00:17:10 ◼   ► change over time but right now I'm

00:17:11 ◼   ► pretty sure I think they don't actually

00:17:13 ◼   ► unless they're edited maybe but I'm not

00:17:14 ◼   ► positive on that yeah but it's also

00:17:16 ◼   ► worth clearing up to if you if someone

00:17:18 ◼   ► had a problem that was then fixed in a

00:17:20 ◼   ► subsequent release in general just

00:17:22 ◼   ► saying that is probably a helpful thing

00:17:25 ◼   ► yeah because you know in it is a funny

00:17:29 ◼   ► thing because you you just want to find

00:17:30 ◼   ► these places where you can have these

00:17:32 ◼   ► positive engagements I don't think I

00:17:35 ◼   ► mean I don't know what you think about

00:17:36 ◼   ► this but like there's a lot of you know

00:17:39 ◼   ► I remember people were asking initially

00:17:40 ◼   ► or talking about it of should we respond

00:17:42 ◼   ► to every review you know should each

00:17:45 ◼   ► review have a response below it any geez

00:17:47 ◼   ► that's a simple answer no

00:17:49 ◼   ► that's really a lot of times those

00:17:51 ◼   ► responses are just end up being like

00:17:52 ◼   ► thank you or good point like that kind

00:17:56 ◼   ► of response I don't think is actually

00:17:58 ◼   ► productive that I think it just kind of

00:18:00 ◼   ► it's distracting probably I mean maybe

00:18:03 ◼   ► I'm wrong maybe people love you know

00:18:05 ◼   ► we'd love to see all these little like

00:18:06 ◼   ► you know someone says something nice

00:18:08 ◼   ► about you and you say thank you

00:18:09 ◼   ► like I guess that's polite that's the

00:18:11 ◼   ► polite thing to do is to say thank you

00:18:13 ◼   ► and someone says something nice about

00:18:14 ◼   ► you but it seems counterproductive in a

00:18:18 ◼   ► lot of ways I mean the main benefit in a

00:18:20 ◼   ► weird way like and this is just the way

00:18:22 ◼   ► my mind works I suppose is by doing that

00:18:24 ◼   ► you aren't increasing the amount of

00:18:27 ◼   ► space on the screen that the positive

00:18:30 ◼   ► review took up so it emphasizes it

00:18:34 ◼   ► slightly like if someone has a five-star

00:18:37 ◼   ► review that's but like I just I one of

00:18:40 ◼   ► the one of the issues is that you that

00:18:41 ◼   ► we have here is that again what I said

00:18:44 ◼   ► earlier like whatever most apps do or

00:18:47 ◼   ► the most popular apps do is gonna be

00:18:49 ◼   ► what people assume and expect I think

00:18:52 ◼   ► one of the big problems is that most

00:18:53 ◼   ► apps that most people actually use are

00:18:55 ◼   ► made by big companies and the big

00:18:57 ◼   ► companies are either going to not

00:18:59 ◼   ► respond or they're gonna they're gonna

00:19:01 ◼   ► have somebody whose job it is to

00:19:02 ◼   ► basically be a can respond similar to

00:19:04 ◼   ► like if you if you add mention on

00:19:06 ◼   ► Twitter like some big brand like Comcast

00:19:08 ◼   ► or whatever then they're gonna have some

00:19:10 ◼   ► intern whose job it is to try to placate

00:19:13 ◼   ► you with a canned response and we're

00:19:16 ◼   ► gonna have that on the App Store reviews

00:19:17 ◼   ► too and so if people get used to that

00:19:20 ◼   ► anything you say in it just in like a

00:19:23 ◼   ► general response to a positive one

00:19:25 ◼   ► they're going to assume is not genuine

00:19:28 ◼   ► they're going to assume that this is

00:19:29 ◼   ► just like a form letter that you say to

00:19:31 ◼   ► everybody which it actually might be and

00:19:33 ◼   ► I don't think that looks good to people

00:19:35 ◼   ► you know people see right through that

00:19:37 ◼   ► and and again they're going to be coming

00:19:39 ◼   ► to your app with the assumption that

00:19:40 ◼   ► this is a can response like one of the

00:19:43 ◼   ► one of the reviews that I gave I was

00:19:45 ◼   ► trying to placate somebody who once

00:19:47 ◼   ► starred me and that review showed up

00:19:49 ◼   ► pretty high and they were complaining

00:19:52 ◼   ► about you know just some of the some of

00:19:53 ◼   ► the design changes I did in 3.0 and I it

00:19:56 ◼   ► took me a while I I wrote this response

00:19:59 ◼   ► it took probably 15 minutes to write

00:20:01 ◼   ► even though it's like - it's like two

00:20:02 ◼   ► sentences

00:20:03 ◼   ► that's because you know the famous thing

00:20:04 ◼   ► like I forget my letter for being so

00:20:06 ◼   ► long I would have written a shorter one

00:20:07 ◼   ► but at that time like I started writing

00:20:10 ◼   ► a whole bunch of different ways to

00:20:11 ◼   ► address this and it took me a good 15

00:20:13 ◼   ► minutes to come up with like the two

00:20:15 ◼   ► sentences that I actually thought I

00:20:16 ◼   ► should say here and it was very much it

00:20:19 ◼   ► was like kind of a general statement of

00:20:21 ◼   ► like you know I'm sorry this design

00:20:22 ◼   ► isn't working for you I try to please

00:20:24 ◼   ► many people as I can but you know

00:20:25 ◼   ► sometimes that's not possible something

00:20:26 ◼   ► like that and the guy edited his review

00:20:28 ◼   ► and clearly thought that was a canned

00:20:32 ◼   ► form response even though I had never

00:20:34 ◼   ► written it to anybody else before it

00:20:35 ◼   ► took me 15 minutes to compose those two

00:20:36 ◼   ► sentences he just assumed because it

00:20:39 ◼   ► kind of sounded like he can't response

00:20:41 ◼   ► like I'm you know I'm sorry you know I

00:20:43 ◼   ► couldn't couldn't help you here whatever

00:20:44 ◼   ► else and he probably assumes that any

00:20:48 ◼   ► response that is kind of like that on an

00:20:50 ◼   ► after review is just a canned response

00:20:53 ◼   ► and there's no thought behind it even

00:20:54 ◼   ► though in this case there was tons of

00:20:56 ◼   ► thought behind it and so you always you

00:20:59 ◼   ► have to take that risk to like again

00:21:00 ◼   ► like what what are people going to

00:21:01 ◼   ► expect from the entire app store as a

00:21:03 ◼   ► whole is going to impact the the

00:21:05 ◼   ► assumptions they go into when they when

00:21:08 ◼   ► they see your response and I don't think

00:21:10 ◼   ► a a cyclic hey thanks for reviewing us

00:21:14 ◼   ► like I don't think that is productive I

00:21:17 ◼   ► don't think people want that and I think

00:21:19 ◼   ► if you did that people would not receive

00:21:22 ◼   ► it as well as you might think it might

00:21:23 ◼   ► it might seem like overly eager or

00:21:25 ◼   ► creepy or just kind of desperate and I I

00:21:29 ◼   ► don't think that's a good look

00:21:30 ◼   ► yeah and I think that's probably in

00:21:33 ◼   ► general like I think this is an area

00:21:35 ◼   ► where probably less is more right yeah

00:21:37 ◼   ► it's it's it's it's one of these things

00:21:39 ◼   ► that I think we could easily get carried

00:21:41 ◼   ► away with using and it's like it's time

00:21:44 ◼   ► spent that it's it's I think it's a it's

00:21:48 ◼   ► a wonderful tool for us and there are

00:21:50 ◼   ► areas like especially for those like the

00:21:52 ◼   ► top those top reviews having good goodra

00:21:56 ◼   ► answers for those like it makes a lot of

00:21:57 ◼   ► sense but I think this very easily could

00:21:59 ◼   ► become this rabbit hole of if trying to

00:22:02 ◼   ► squeeze too much out of this feature is

00:22:05 ◼   ► almost certainly going to become a

00:22:07 ◼   ► counterproductive it's going to be

00:22:09 ◼   ► something that is taking time away from

00:22:11 ◼   ► the actual thing that will make your app

00:22:14 ◼   ► a five-star app which is making your app

00:22:16 ◼   ► that

00:22:17 ◼   ► you know the switching you know

00:22:20 ◼   ► convincing one person to give you one

00:22:22 ◼   ► more star is nice but you know making

00:22:26 ◼   ► your app better with a new version that

00:22:28 ◼   ► is going to address the problems that

00:22:31 ◼   ► people are having like that's a much

00:22:33 ◼   ► more robust and sustainable solution

00:22:35 ◼   ► rather than getting into lots of little

00:22:38 ◼   ► hitches with this and I mean especially

00:22:40 ◼   ► it's one of these things that some

00:22:41 ◼   ► people like people are writing reviews

00:22:43 ◼   ► for very different reasons right like it

00:22:46 ◼   ► is something that we don't control and

00:22:49 ◼   ► especially because it's not this venue

00:22:51 ◼   ► where it's you know this nice threaded

00:22:53 ◼   ► conversation like you can say something

00:22:54 ◼   ► and then they can say something and they

00:22:57 ◼   ► know they're doing it by like updating

00:22:59 ◼   ► their review and so you can get these

00:23:00 ◼   ► very disjoint kind of situations if you

00:23:03 ◼   ► go too far down that road so in general

00:23:05 ◼   ► less is more probably and I think the

00:23:08 ◼   ► question of how far back to go like I

00:23:11 ◼   ► heard was on core intuition because

00:23:14 ◼   ► Dana's gelcoat was saying that he was

00:23:15 ◼   ► responding to reviews from like years

00:23:17 ◼   ► ago that just kind of blows my mind it's

00:23:20 ◼   ► like I think in general keeping this

00:23:22 ◼   ► fairly current is something that makes

00:23:24 ◼   ► sense that you know responding to

00:23:26 ◼   ► reviews as they come in makes some some

00:23:30 ◼   ► amount of sense and in this initial

00:23:31 ◼   ► period

00:23:32 ◼   ► you know maybe responding or at least

00:23:34 ◼   ► rereading in deciding if you want to

00:23:36 ◼   ► respond to all the reviews for the

00:23:38 ◼   ► current version seems about reasonable

00:23:40 ◼   ► but beyond that I probably wouldn't go

00:23:42 ◼   ► too much farther back yeah and kind of

00:23:45 ◼   ► expanding a little bit on the on the

00:23:46 ◼   ► less is more angle again you know keep

00:23:48 ◼   ► in mind as you mentioned that that you

00:23:51 ◼   ► know you're posting this response but

00:23:52 ◼   ► then the the user who wrote the review

00:23:54 ◼   ► is prompted and will likely edit the

00:23:58 ◼   ► review and so you have to make sure that

00:24:00 ◼   ► if somebody you know assuming that

00:24:02 ◼   ► you're not going to be keeping on top of

00:24:04 ◼   ► every single response you write to see

00:24:05 ◼   ► if the person edited it and then see if

00:24:07 ◼   ► you need to edit your response and

00:24:08 ◼   ► everything like that's that's not

00:24:09 ◼   ► productive so keep in mind though that

00:24:12 ◼   ► your your response might not make as

00:24:16 ◼   ► much sense if the users review is

00:24:19 ◼   ► heavily edited after you gave the

00:24:20 ◼   ► response and so write the responses with

00:24:23 ◼   ► that in mind so for instance one of the

00:24:26 ◼   ► responses I wrote and I haven't actually

00:24:27 ◼   ► done that many of them honestly but one

00:24:29 ◼   ► of the responses I wrote

00:24:30 ◼   ► was one of the top reviews was asking

00:24:32 ◼   ► about battery life saying the new

00:24:33 ◼   ► version seemed to use more battery life

00:24:35 ◼   ► and so in my response I didn't really

00:24:39 ◼   ► specifically call out like you know

00:24:41 ◼   ► anything in particular about about the

00:24:44 ◼   ► question that was asked it was I gave a

00:24:47 ◼   ► more kind of general response about

00:24:49 ◼   ► battery usage in the app and I said

00:24:51 ◼   ► basically like you know here's the kinds

00:24:53 ◼   ► of things that make any podcast app use

00:24:56 ◼   ► more battery power and you know and you

00:24:58 ◼   ► know here's like playing fast using the

00:25:00 ◼   ► screen brightness and the speaker and

00:25:01 ◼   ► everything else and I like you know I've

00:25:03 ◼   ► tested overcast III test overcast

00:25:05 ◼   ► against other podcast apps and I try to

00:25:07 ◼   ► make sure it's always comparable or

00:25:08 ◼   ► better but if you've if you figure out

00:25:10 ◼   ► anything else please let me know and I'm

00:25:12 ◼   ► always trying to find out you know any

00:25:14 ◼   ► areas I might have missed something like

00:25:16 ◼   ► that right and so and so I gave an

00:25:19 ◼   ► answer that no matter what the review is

00:25:21 ◼   ► edited to that will still basically make

00:25:23 ◼   ► sense as a standalone written piece

00:25:26 ◼   ► there and I think it's important to do

00:25:28 ◼   ► that because again like whatever you

00:25:30 ◼   ► respond to the the user who wrote the

00:25:33 ◼   ► review can then edit the review to say

00:25:35 ◼   ► anything so if you just say like I agree

00:25:38 ◼   ► the person can respond to the reviews

00:25:40 ◼   ► saying this app sucks and they're the

00:25:43 ◼   ► first review saying this app sucks and

00:25:45 ◼   ► then your responses they're saying I

00:25:46 ◼   ► agree like so you have to always make

00:25:48 ◼   ► sure that you are accounting for the

00:25:50 ◼   ► fact that the thing you're responding to

00:25:52 ◼   ► can change at any time to say anything

00:25:54 ◼   ► and make sure the e review still makes

00:25:56 ◼   ► sense in that context yeah it's just

00:26:00 ◼   ► yeah so I mean you the nice thing is an

00:26:02 ◼   ► iTunes Connect you can sign up to get

00:26:04 ◼   ► notifications when users change reviews

00:26:06 ◼   ► that you responded to so at least you

00:26:09 ◼   ► can track that down a little bit and

00:26:11 ◼   ► there's also there's a filter in iTunes

00:26:12 ◼   ► Connect but still like it's definitely

00:26:14 ◼   ► good advice to keep that in mind that

00:26:16 ◼   ► you don't control the other end of this

00:26:18 ◼   ► and this is all in the public you know

00:26:19 ◼   ► it's all public facing not just like on

00:26:21 ◼   ► a public website even it's like right on

00:26:23 ◼   ► your App Store page the last thing that

00:26:26 ◼   ► I wanted to sort of touch on briefly I

00:26:28 ◼   ► think is the mental health aspect of

00:26:31 ◼   ► responding to reviews oh boy

00:26:33 ◼   ► because and this is so it's probably

00:26:36 ◼   ► worth saying that I'd went through and

00:26:38 ◼   ► did a little bit of responding to

00:26:39 ◼   ► reviews but after that initial wave of

00:26:41 ◼   ► just like making sure I understand what

00:26:43 ◼   ► how this process works and what it looks

00:26:45 ◼   ► like I've you know just like I do for my

00:26:48 ◼   ► customer support I've you know outsource

00:26:50 ◼   ► the actual day-to-day operation of

00:26:53 ◼   ► responding to reviews to someone else

00:26:55 ◼   ► you know I have someone else who

00:26:56 ◼   ► responds to my first level customer

00:26:58 ◼   ► support and now I have someone who is

00:26:59 ◼   ► you know a very part-time basis but is

00:27:02 ◼   ► taking you know is responding to the

00:27:04 ◼   ► reviews in the App Store and the main

00:27:06 ◼   ► reason why I do that I mean it's nice

00:27:08 ◼   ► from a you know it's from a time

00:27:10 ◼   ► perspective it frees me up a little bit

00:27:11 ◼   ► and so on but the main reason why I do

00:27:15 ◼   ► that is because I find reading reviews

00:27:19 ◼   ► of my own products can be very

00:27:22 ◼   ► detrimental from a like motivation from

00:27:24 ◼   ► a happiness self-worth like all kinds of

00:27:27 ◼   ► very significant things can happen yes

00:27:29 ◼   ► and this is one of these things what's

00:27:31 ◼   ► so reading one really mean like pointed

00:27:35 ◼   ► review about yourself you know Kumasi as

00:27:38 ◼   ► always is the thing that sticks with you

00:27:39 ◼   ► it's not the thing that you know if

00:27:41 ◼   ► someone writes this glowing five star

00:27:43 ◼   ► review about how much they love the app

00:27:44 ◼   ► like that's nice and it I mean I wish it

00:27:47 ◼   ► stuck with me more but it's almost

00:27:49 ◼   ► always as these you know these mean

00:27:51 ◼   ► intentionally vindictive kind of reviews

00:27:53 ◼   ► that people will write and so that's why

00:27:56 ◼   ► you know for me I decided you know I'm

00:27:58 ◼   ► just in the same way that I haven't

00:27:59 ◼   ► really been reading my App Store reviews

00:28:01 ◼   ► very much over the last few years it's

00:28:03 ◼   ► like I this is not a reason for me to

00:28:05 ◼   ► get back into that game that I remember

00:28:07 ◼   ► what that did you know cognitively to me

00:28:09 ◼   ► and so it's like you know what I will

00:28:12 ◼   ► just pay a little bit of money to have

00:28:13 ◼   ► someone else to do that because for them

00:28:15 ◼   ► it's not personal you know for them it's

00:28:16 ◼   ► not that same thing when they're you

00:28:19 ◼   ► know if someone's attacking the product

00:28:21 ◼   ► that I made when it feels like they're

00:28:24 ◼   ► attacking me whereas you know if someone

00:28:26 ◼   ► else is it precisely more you know

00:28:28 ◼   ► separated from that product you know

00:28:31 ◼   ► it's it's more just a job it's a thing

00:28:32 ◼   ► and like it's a it's a Thomas has a more

00:28:35 ◼   ► of a comedy to it perhaps so it's you

00:28:37 ◼   ► know it softens the blow and so just

00:28:39 ◼   ► something to keep in mind that while

00:28:41 ◼   ► this is a useful tool while this is

00:28:42 ◼   ► something that I'm glad we have you know

00:28:45 ◼   ► be careful and I really speak cognizant

00:28:47 ◼   ► of the impact that it is having on you

00:28:49 ◼   ► and be careful about then how you do

00:28:52 ◼   ► that and when you went in the day you do

00:28:53 ◼   ► that or like how you're feeling

00:28:55 ◼   ► emotionally like this is if the

00:28:56 ◼   ► something that you're doing and you're

00:28:58 ◼   ► feeling really sad or down that day

00:28:59 ◼   ► maybe don't go read your app store

00:29:01 ◼   ► reviews like that's unlikely to make you

00:29:04 ◼   ► feel better yeah I would say that's good

00:29:07 ◼   ► advice in general like in general you

00:29:09 ◼   ► don't need to read reps or reviews very

00:29:11 ◼   ► often or very closely I think it's

00:29:14 ◼   ► important to you know do what we said

00:29:16 ◼   ► earlier like you know view them in the

00:29:17 ◼   ► same way that the public views them so

00:29:19 ◼   ► look at your store page occasionally and

00:29:21 ◼   ► see which ones are on top and see what

00:29:24 ◼   ► your average is and I don't think you

00:29:26 ◼   ► need to go much further than that in

00:29:28 ◼   ► both reading them or responding to them

00:29:30 ◼   ► I have found the same thing that reading

00:29:31 ◼   ► my after reviews is almost never a good

00:29:34 ◼   ► thing for my motivation or my mental

00:29:37 ◼   ► state and so I mostly just don't do it

00:29:39 ◼   ► and I'm very happy not doing it and that

00:29:41 ◼   ► will probably continue so anyway thanks

00:29:44 ◼   ► very much for listening and we'll talk

00:29:45 ◼   ► to you next week bye