The Incomparable

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00:00:00   this episode of the incomparable is [TS]

00:00:01   sponsored by audible the best place to [TS]

00:00:03   find audio books online go to audible [TS]

00:00:06   podcast.com slash incomparable to learn [TS]

00:00:10   more [TS]

00:00:14   the incomparable number 142 may2013 [TS]

00:00:20   welcome back to the income I guess I'm [TS]

00:00:23   your host Jason snail and we are here at [TS]

00:00:25   long last to talk about the second half [TS]

00:00:27   of season 7 of Doctor Who one of my [TS]

00:00:30   favorites of all time and we we refrain [TS]

00:00:33   from doing the flash episode by episode [TS]

00:00:35   podcast and instead are going to cram [TS]

00:00:37   all eight episodes of the back half of [TS]

00:00:39   the season into one super-sized and [TS]

00:00:42   comfortable podcast joining me to talk [TS]

00:00:44   about doctor who r Scott McNulty hi [TS]

00:00:48   Scott [TS]

00:00:49   hello Jason it's good to have you you [TS]

00:00:51   know there's someplace I think someone [TS]

00:00:53   could cram some of these episodes but oh [TS]

00:00:55   dear oh dear [TS]

00:00:57   we will not talk about Star Trek though [TS]

00:01:00   this time but we'll save that for next [TS]

00:01:01   time [TS]

00:01:02   John siracusa is also here hi John that [TS]

00:01:05   Star Trek was a fantastic movie now [TS]

00:01:07   don't save it [TS]

00:01:09   that's the next one we got backed up its [TS]

00:01:11   summer are lots of things are happening [TS]

00:01:13   in Game of Thrones and it's too much [TS]

00:01:15   going on Dan Morgan is also here because [TS]

00:01:18   he's often hear hi dan and I really [TS]

00:01:20   enjoyed the scottie parts behind you're [TS]

00:01:23   killing me again wrong thing wrong [TS]

00:01:25   franchise please please [TS]

00:01:27   and I have called in an expert witness [TS]

00:01:29   it is the host of a podcast that I [TS]

00:01:32   listen to faithfully the 2-minute Time [TS]

00:01:34   Lord podcast so named because it knows [TS]

00:01:36   how to get in [TS]

00:01:38   say interesting things and get out [TS]

00:01:39   quickly unlike other podcast i could [TS]

00:01:42   name such as this one it's chip from the [TS]

00:01:46   2-minute Time Lord hi chip [TS]

00:01:47   I and I preferred star trek into [TS]

00:01:50   darkness and the original Klingon oh [TS]

00:01:52   dear there there are original [TS]

00:01:54   no they're not original Klingon Senate [TS]

00:01:55   are there they're not unoriginal they [TS]

00:01:58   they don't like to talk today if we [TS]

00:01:59   don't speak of it enhance clean their [TS]

00:02:01   enhanced they have pumpkin heads is chip [TS]

00:02:03   aware that he needs to talk for more [TS]

00:02:05   than two minutes because we often go on [TS]

00:02:07   yes well maybe we should all take a cue [TS]

00:02:09   from chip and talk a little less except [TS]

00:02:11   for Scott I don't often talk for more [TS]

00:02:13   than two men actually Scott Scott's got [TS]

00:02:15   it down [TS]

00:02:16   that's true it's me and and and and John [TS]

00:02:18   have the problem all right let's get [TS]

00:02:20   into it so they split this season in [TS]

00:02:21   half which caused much consternation [TS]

00:02:24   among doctor who fans pointing out that [TS]

00:02:26   this means that there are a few [TS]

00:02:27   episodes being produced because there's [TS]

00:02:29   essentially these half seasons over the [TS]

00:02:31   course of two years but be that as it [TS]

00:02:32   may we did have eight episodes that ran [TS]

00:02:36   over eight weeks so we're going to think [TS]

00:02:39   back to the start of this at the end of [TS]

00:02:41   March and the first episode of this of [TS]

00:02:44   this half season was the bells of st. [TS]

00:02:47   John which you may remember as the [TS]

00:02:50   episode with the the motorcycle that can [TS]

00:02:53   go up the side of a building and the [TS]

00:02:57   white evo Wi-Fi that that sucks you into [TS]

00:03:00   the cloud where you get a little [TS]

00:03:01   suspicious that Glenn isn't here on an [TS]

00:03:03   episode that involves Wi-Fi is all I'm [TS]

00:03:05   saying yeah [TS]

00:03:06   yep isn't it in maybe a little maybe [TS]

00:03:11   so this was a bad this hahaha it is not [TS]

00:03:17   it is not by far the worst ever gonna [TS]

00:03:18   season [TS]

00:03:19   no I that's that's faint praise I think [TS]

00:03:22   wow burn get it it's this this is has [TS]

00:03:26   the unenviable task of setting up a [TS]

00:03:28   meeting between the doctor and his new [TS]

00:03:30   companion except there's one problem [TS]

00:03:32   which is we've already seen them eat you [TS]

00:03:34   know arguably once if not twice before [TS]

00:03:36   and it in some ways this actually felt a [TS]

00:03:41   little bit like a like a russell davis [TS]

00:03:43   episode era episode in the sense that [TS]

00:03:46   I'm it was it had a lot of high concept [TS]

00:03:49   what if there was an alien in the Wi-Fi [TS]

00:03:52   what if there was a monster that had a [TS]

00:03:53   spoon for ahead haha and and I don't [TS]

00:03:59   know it in the end I I there are things [TS]

00:04:02   about it that I like I actually likes [TS]

00:04:04   some of the interplay between the doctor [TS]

00:04:06   and Clara and they're they're kind of [TS]

00:04:09   back and forth but but yeah a battle it [TS]

00:04:14   just was it was just very generic almost [TS]

00:04:17   to me it as a well I guess the [TS]

00:04:20   obligatory introduce the companion [TS]

00:04:21   episode the plot was not the high point [TS]

00:04:24   although I agree with you that the I [TS]

00:04:26   liked a lot of the character [TS]

00:04:27   interactions between the doctor and [TS]

00:04:30   Clara I think they have be the actors [TS]

00:04:32   have really good chemistry and that [TS]

00:04:34   manages to save some otherwise subpar [TS]

00:04:36   plotting maybe that's just me that [TS]

00:04:40   that's it's [TS]

00:04:41   ministry in a vacuum though like I i [TS]

00:04:43   agree the two actors seem to want to do [TS]

00:04:46   something but you can't just have those [TS]

00:04:48   personalities you have to have a [TS]

00:04:50   supporting story or script or something [TS]

00:04:54   to justify that chemistry and I you know [TS]

00:04:57   I feel bad for the two of them in the [TS]

00:05:00   season because nothing against the Act [TS]

00:05:01   the actress and matt smith is great and [TS]

00:05:03   everything but if if they're not given [TS]

00:05:06   some kind of overall story arc to tie [TS]

00:05:10   their chemistry to like you think of you [TS]

00:05:12   know Amy Pond the girl who waited her [TS]

00:05:14   she has had an arc and and intention for [TS]

00:05:17   the entire thing with her and Rory and [TS]

00:05:19   the triangle and even then that resolves [TS]

00:05:20   and she wonders what she's doing with [TS]

00:05:21   her life that carried the rest of her [TS]

00:05:24   sparks for this isn't miss this [TS]

00:05:26   particular episode is a lot like a lot [TS]

00:05:28   of the ones i think back of an intended [TS]

00:05:30   error where ya the plot is silly and [TS]

00:05:32   there's some stupid thread and maybe the [TS]

00:05:33   threat is dumb and involves bad cg or [TS]

00:05:35   whatever but if the companion dr. [TS]

00:05:37   relationship and their overarching fine [TS]

00:05:38   then the part of the episode just [TS]

00:05:40   background for letting these to advance [TS]

00:05:44   their plot whether it's him and Don are [TS]

00:05:45   in tomorrow or whatever like they're [TS]

00:05:47   doing their thing and in the background [TS]

00:05:49   and episode is happening and by the way [TS]

00:05:50   the doctor saves the day during it right [TS]

00:05:52   this one just had the background silly [TS]

00:05:55   story and I didn't this entire seasons [TS]

00:05:57   if I didn't understand the the Ark they [TS]

00:06:00   were trying to do with Claire I did I [TS]

00:06:02   just didn't buy into it I guess John [TS]

00:06:04   were you bothered by the technology in [TS]

00:06:06   this episode because this is one of [TS]

00:06:07   those episodes words like the Wi-Fi if [TS]

00:06:09   you log in and then you can download [TS]

00:06:11   your brain and then re-upload your brain [TS]

00:06:13   and you go [TS]

00:06:14   I mean I have a rant that maybe i'll go [TS]

00:06:16   on later about about trying to hold [TS]

00:06:18   something like Doctor Who to therefore [TS]

00:06:20   the star travelers up to science right [TS]

00:06:22   by me know where it works for that too i [TS]

00:06:24   guess i am getting kind of tired of [TS]

00:06:25   people pointing out the scientific flaws [TS]

00:06:27   and in stories that are essentially [TS]

00:06:29   fantasy stories but I was just wondering [TS]

00:06:32   since I know John sometimes is [TS]

00:06:35   especially bothered by the misuse of [TS]

00:06:36   computers this seem to have a lot of [TS]

00:06:38   that of this sort of like the doctor [TS]

00:06:40   ends up and the doctor of all the [TS]

00:06:42   characters in all of science fiction [TS]

00:06:43   ever he's the last person I would expect [TS]

00:06:45   you would literally open up a laptop and [TS]

00:06:47   start typing and be like I mean I'm [TS]

00:06:49   hacking into this thing and and he was [TS]

00:06:51   doing it and it was it it didn't even [TS]

00:06:53   seem like a pair [TS]

00:06:54   pretty of those things it was actually [TS]

00:06:56   the plot device was if i type really [TS]

00:06:58   fast computers will do magical things [TS]

00:07:00   which is just it mean it's just lazy i [TS]

00:07:03   think i dont doctor who is so far off [TS]

00:07:05   the rails in terms of being realistic [TS]

00:07:07   computer I i'm playing and have [TS]

00:07:10   complained many times in many of our [TS]

00:07:12   doctor who podcast about the series not [TS]

00:07:15   not being willing to sit down its own [TS]

00:07:17   nonsense rules and follow them like I [TS]

00:07:18   don't care you know it's never gonna get [TS]

00:07:20   real technology right real history real [TS]

00:07:22   anything right fun make up your own [TS]

00:07:23   crazy rules about like what you know [TS]

00:07:26   what are the rules about regeneration [TS]

00:07:27   what are the rules you know what is the [TS]

00:07:29   the doctor story what is his backstory [TS]

00:07:31   and what are the powers of the various [TS]

00:07:34   alien races at various different times [TS]

00:07:36   and doctor who is flipping about [TS]

00:07:38   sticking to those two its own nonsense [TS]

00:07:40   rules and that that I find infuriating [TS]

00:07:41   because if you're not gonna stick to [TS]

00:07:42   your own nonsense rules then I start to [TS]

00:07:44   disengage and I start to feel like I [TS]

00:07:47   nothing matters because anything can [TS]

00:07:48   happen any moment but i never do that [TS]

00:07:51   because the technology is wrong terms of [TS]

00:07:53   real-world stuff because i don't have [TS]

00:07:55   that expectation of the show [TS]

00:07:56   well this is something that sort of [TS]

00:07:57   endemic to Doctor Who over like 50 years [TS]

00:08:00   of history it has never been consistent [TS]

00:08:03   to itself [TS]

00:08:05   we've been adjusted the last just in the [TS]

00:08:08   last seven years or so we've had the [TS]

00:08:11   show arguing with itself over whether [TS]

00:08:13   time can be written rewritten or not you [TS]

00:08:15   know perfect their fixed points of [TS]

00:08:17   course [TS]

00:08:17   yeah except when they're not or but it's [TS]

00:08:21   dish but i think that that I think that [TS]

00:08:23   you I it makes me feel better about the [TS]

00:08:27   show to think of it as first and [TS]

00:08:28   foremost a family show and second [TS]

00:08:31   science fantasy rather than science [TS]

00:08:33   fiction at that sort of that sort of the [TS]

00:08:36   heritage of the thing that the downside [TS]

00:08:39   to that is that it's harder for adults [TS]

00:08:43   and fans watching it to to sort of set [TS]

00:08:47   set aside our desire to have everything [TS]

00:08:50   makes sense and take it take it [TS]

00:08:52   seriously but you know this is a show [TS]

00:08:54   that's had transforming transforming [TS]

00:08:58   robots piloted by little people that can [TS]

00:09:01   grow motorcycles and mind you Jason that [TS]

00:09:03   was a that was a Steven Moffat episode [TS]

00:09:06   of russell t davies episode it your [TS]

00:09:08   right arm yet I i have been I it has [TS]

00:09:12   been reliably told me that not long [TS]

00:09:15   after this episode aired by the way uh [TS]

00:09:17   people's Wi-Fi network names started [TS]

00:09:20   changing and developing a mysterious [TS]

00:09:23   here [TS]

00:09:23   well it scared see the stats that part I [TS]

00:09:26   like because that's the Doctor Who trick [TS]

00:09:28   of like you know scaring kids and and [TS]

00:09:30   people in general but scaring kids about [TS]

00:09:32   with Rick mundane things around you are [TS]

00:09:34   scary and that's that's I mean moffatts [TS]

00:09:36   trick especially is that I didn't mind [TS]

00:09:38   that I just mind the month the mundanity [TS]

00:09:40   of the doctor with a plastic laptop just [TS]

00:09:42   kind of doing a lot of fast typing and [TS]

00:09:44   saying I'm controlling a duplicate of [TS]

00:09:46   myself and now I'm fixing this computer [TS]

00:09:48   networking because that's just that's [TS]

00:09:49   just boring and mundane and and I guess [TS]

00:09:52   that was my my my problem with it [TS]

00:09:53   I to John's point I would argue that [TS]

00:09:55   especially thank you chip for [TS]

00:09:57   elucidating that the consistency of [TS]

00:09:59   doctor who is it's inconsistent [TS]

00:10:01   I'm not asking for like you know [TS]

00:10:03   multi-generational or even across doctor [TS]

00:10:06   I know I could visit without that some [TS]

00:10:08   people are going to get all you know [TS]

00:10:10   cranky about the fact that well that's [TS]

00:10:11   not consistent with something that [TS]

00:10:12   happened in 1972 like I don't care you [TS]

00:10:15   know I mean even I'm will even willing [TS]

00:10:17   to get clean breaks between doctors i'm [TS]

00:10:19   just saying like like three episodes ago [TS]

00:10:21   or perhaps in the same episode cannot [TS]

00:10:22   see minutes ago I don't know how things [TS]

00:10:25   work and if you just keep changing the [TS]

00:10:26   rules immediate cranky and and the thing [TS]

00:10:28   is like I you know that's not my [TS]

00:10:30   personal complaint with Doctor Who but [TS]

00:10:31   I'm willing to accept it if the other [TS]

00:10:33   stuff carries me through and read that's [TS]

00:10:36   that's right yeah yeah anything more to [TS]

00:10:38   say about the bells of st. John I'm [TS]

00:10:40   disappointed the title didn't have more [TS]

00:10:42   to do with the episode because it was a [TS]

00:10:43   good title and a good premise and they [TS]

00:10:45   have a few seconds and you never see it [TS]

00:10:47   again [TS]

00:10:47   yeah we have the way I there are two [TS]

00:10:49   things i like particularly one the [TS]

00:10:51   eventual neutralization of the villain [TS]

00:10:55   that we see in the episode [TS]

00:10:57   what's your name miss kismet yeah that [TS]

00:11:00   was kinda I thought that was dark and [TS]

00:11:02   kind of creepy with a razor and she's a [TS]

00:11:04   little girl's mind yes like I think that [TS]

00:11:06   was that know that effectively creeped [TS]

00:11:07   me out so I so thumbs up to that yeah [TS]

00:11:10   that was that was the other thing I [TS]

00:11:12   liked about about this episode was that [TS]

00:11:14   yeah and we have the setup for the great [TS]

00:11:16   intelligence although we also [TS]

00:11:18   you know yeah they could they could have [TS]

00:11:20   done more with that but I'm sure we'll [TS]

00:11:21   go into that shortly [TS]

00:11:23   well and the very least this episode [TS]

00:11:26   teaching you a valuable lesson about not [TS]

00:11:28   logging in to random Wi-Fi strange why [TS]

00:11:31   find other people who I it with your [TS]

00:11:33   brain yeah although is there a human [TS]

00:11:36   being on the planet who is as clueless [TS]

00:11:38   about locking into Wi-Fi ask laura is in [TS]

00:11:42   the beginning [TS]

00:11:43   yeah really what well that was the thing [TS]

00:11:44   I was gonna say to your technology point [TS]

00:11:46   which is like walking onto Wi-Fi it's [TS]

00:11:47   like all right this isn't like a hacking [TS]

00:11:49   into an shl write like this is the one [TS]

00:11:52   thing everybody in the world who's got a [TS]

00:11:54   computer has done at some point at least [TS]

00:11:56   represent it reasonably also if you're [TS]

00:11:58   if you're going to take over people's [TS]

00:11:59   brains don't put in unintelligible [TS]

00:12:01   symbols on there just say free public [TS]

00:12:04   Wi-Fi and all you go [TS]

00:12:06   that would be true scary Jason too scary [TS]

00:12:09   alright let's move on because you see [TS]

00:12:11   we've only got started and and the best [TS]

00:12:14   is yet to come because the next episode [TS]

00:12:16   oh man is is Neil crosses the rings of [TS]

00:12:19   akhaten which is a very very very [TS]

00:12:23   strange episode where they go to this I [TS]

00:12:26   guess it's like a space station or [TS]

00:12:28   something or something or a moon its [TS]

00:12:31   orbiting of what looks like it's a gas [TS]

00:12:33   giant although maybe it's a son I'm i [TS]

00:12:35   was kind of unclear and some of the [TS]

00:12:36   details [TS]

00:12:37   it's a very strange episode the doctor [TS]

00:12:39   ends up waking up this old God who turns [TS]

00:12:42   out to be not the old God but the guy [TS]

00:12:44   who who when he wakes up it wakes up the [TS]

00:12:46   old god it's of it did i mention that [TS]

00:12:48   it's a really strange episode and what I [TS]

00:12:50   liked about it was that it was unlike [TS]

00:12:53   any doctor who episode i've ever seen [TS]

00:12:55   before and it was it was really trying [TS]

00:12:56   very hard to be weird and bizarre what I [TS]

00:12:59   didn't like about it is that it made no [TS]

00:13:01   sense and it was awful so that's my what [TS]

00:13:03   did you not ready to know i mean i like [TS]

00:13:07   i like being bold i love i love that it [TS]

00:13:10   was weird but I didn't like the episode [TS]

00:13:12   you can see the kirby krackle everywhere [TS]

00:13:14   couldn't you [TS]

00:13:15   yeah its cosmic man like like far out [TS]

00:13:18   space hippie Jack Kirby cosmic the pot [TS]

00:13:21   and a plot is broken i mean i was [TS]

00:13:22   thinking about me the pacing on it was [TS]

00:13:24   so weird like it just you know it kinda [TS]

00:13:27   wish of these things into like things [TS]

00:13:29   that should take a be sort of a [TS]

00:13:31   drawn out thing into like two second [TS]

00:13:33   burst I mean there's some really great [TS]

00:13:34   stuff in there I like sort of the the [TS]

00:13:36   feeling of the planet when their first [TS]

00:13:38   wandering around it there's all the [TS]

00:13:39   aliens everywhere [TS]

00:13:40   yeah they find the little girl yeah yeah [TS]

00:13:42   and there's a lot of their the the the [TS]

00:13:45   sort of what we think is the villain the [TS]

00:13:46   beginning again and effectively creepy [TS]

00:13:48   Monster creation even the scary like [TS]

00:13:51   eventual villain witch which brought me [TS]

00:13:53   back to some of the david tennant was it [TS]

00:13:56   the the satan pit you know yeah that [TS]

00:13:58   their reserves and creepy stuff there [TS]

00:14:00   too but as an episode it doesn't hang [TS]

00:14:02   together it's totally weird she's flying [TS]

00:14:05   a motorbike through space [TS]

00:14:06   it's like I don't know it just to me the [TS]

00:14:09   structure and overall construction of it [TS]

00:14:12   just seemed like he totally wrong and [TS]

00:14:16   just off there's lots of doctor who [TS]

00:14:18   episodes where it comes to some alien [TS]

00:14:20   situation and there's something that [TS]

00:14:21   there's something that seems strange or [TS]

00:14:24   a little bit off and the viewer knows it [TS]

00:14:26   before the people in the episode and [TS]

00:14:28   you're you're rooting for him to figure [TS]

00:14:30   out that something is weird and when [TS]

00:14:32   that's the central mystery of an episode [TS]

00:14:33   like oh my god this spaceship is [TS]

00:14:35   surrounding a giant whale that we're [TS]

00:14:36   talking you know like however yeah [TS]

00:14:38   whatever similar Minnesota there that's [TS]

00:14:40   a lot of Doctor Who formula sometimes [TS]

00:14:41   the mysteries dominant sometimes it's [TS]

00:14:43   not [TS]

00:14:44   and that's why i thought this one was [TS]

00:14:45   going but it didn't there's a little [TS]

00:14:47   girl little bit mysterious and then it [TS]

00:14:49   just goes off in about 800 different [TS]

00:14:50   directions at once and by the seven [TS]

00:14:52   things that are explaining this guy's [TS]

00:14:53   the alarm clock and not the thing and [TS]

00:14:55   you gotta hold or you gotta tell me but [TS]

00:14:57   like you know I didn't lose me and and [TS]

00:15:01   and yeah the motors heavy door so [TS]

00:15:03   there's a back door so she likes a you [TS]

00:15:06   know mounted vehicles that because its [TS]

00:15:08   side of the building on an actual [TS]

00:15:09   motorcycle and now we have space [TS]

00:15:10   motorcycle [TS]

00:15:11   alright whatever well which is [TS]

00:15:13   interesting too because this is this is [TS]

00:15:14   Neil cross by think this is the first [TS]

00:15:15   time we've seen him writing doctor who [TS]

00:15:18   episode [TS]

00:15:19   he's previously I was again he's the [TS]

00:15:21   he's the showrunner of Luther which is [TS]

00:15:22   an excellent show by the way although [TS]

00:15:24   are very very dark disturbing story is [TS]

00:15:26   he wrote hide which we'll get to in a [TS]

00:15:27   minute [TS]

00:15:28   right which is the best show and I when [TS]

00:15:30   they said they said here write another [TS]

00:15:32   one and this is haha well maybe only [TS]

00:15:34   have one good one and this one I [TS]

00:15:37   actually liked far more than i should [TS]

00:15:39   have for all of the for all the reasons [TS]

00:15:42   that you guys said [TS]

00:15:43   I I shouldn't have cared for it but [TS]

00:15:45   there's something audacious about it i [TS]

00:15:47   mean there I great is it is weird just [TS]

00:15:50   weird it's weird stuff pyramids in giant [TS]

00:15:53   pumpkin headed sons are planets or [TS]

00:15:56   whatever that whatever it is yeah yeah [TS]

00:15:58   you know I'm gonna clock Laura coming to [TS]

00:16:02   the rescue with a leaf and all the stuff [TS]

00:16:04   you it shouldn't it shouldn't work for [TS]

00:16:06   me and if I and if I am honest with [TS]

00:16:08   myself if I look deeply into myself yes [TS]

00:16:11   it doesn't work but I i'm a sucker for [TS]

00:16:15   the operatic stuff and the rtd years uh [TS]

00:16:19   the russell davies years you know there [TS]

00:16:21   that was operatic and sentimental and [TS]

00:16:25   then and sometimes to its detriment but [TS]

00:16:27   I it [TS]

00:16:31   this was a noble failure to be and I [TS]

00:16:33   kind of forgave the i kinda forgave the [TS]

00:16:35   failure because it was something that I [TS]

00:16:37   hadn't seen in Doctor Who before and i [TS]

00:16:39   would like to see doctor who get weird [TS]

00:16:43   as hell more often [TS]

00:16:45   just a little more a little more plot [TS]

00:16:47   coherence and believable physics would [TS]

00:16:50   be nice to I feel like if they had [TS]

00:16:51   scaled back the weird just a little at [TS]

00:16:54   the end it might have hung together more [TS]

00:16:56   having the layers of the like the bad [TS]

00:16:58   guy who's not really the bad guy have [TS]

00:17:00   and where you've got the whole satan pit [TS]

00:17:02   kind of think the consumption of memory [TS]

00:17:04   thing which happens so late in the game [TS]

00:17:06   and it makes it seem like the doctors [TS]

00:17:09   memories are going to be consumed but [TS]

00:17:11   then he's fine it you know that that was [TS]

00:17:14   it was it piled on so high and every [TS]

00:17:16   time I was like trying to catch up and [TS]

00:17:18   say we'll wait a second how what does [TS]

00:17:19   that mean [TS]

00:17:20   and it didn't mean anything and we moved [TS]

00:17:22   on to the next weird thing but i agree [TS]

00:17:23   with you about how audacious it is i [TS]

00:17:25   would hate for Doctor Who to be boring I [TS]

00:17:26   I much prefer it [TS]

00:17:28   striving and failing then just kind of [TS]

00:17:30   having another I mean that that's the [TS]

00:17:32   thing about bells of st. John is that [TS]

00:17:34   it's it's a little more bog-standard [TS]

00:17:36   doctor who and I think I'd rather them [TS]

00:17:39   not I I'd like them to shoot for the [TS]

00:17:42   stars a little bit more even if it means [TS]

00:17:43   that they exploded failure from diet I [TS]

00:17:47   doctor who fans are notoriously [TS]

00:17:49   conservative this was so not a [TS]

00:17:52   conservative [TS]

00:17:53   I thought it was a little bit timid [TS]

00:17:55   though because whenever I see a doctor [TS]

00:17:57   who episodes that have lots of false [TS]

00:17:59   endings like Jason was saying like oh [TS]

00:18:00   this is the big climax is going to eat [TS]

00:18:02   his memories or not or he's going to you [TS]

00:18:04   know it's a battle of wills against this [TS]

00:18:05   just and there would be another thing [TS]

00:18:07   after another thing I like lots and lots [TS]

00:18:09   of false endings because they're afraid [TS]

00:18:10   to commit to the consequences of anyone [TS]

00:18:12   that they had put up before that that [TS]

00:18:14   shows me that they didn't know how to [TS]

00:18:16   finish it or they were trying to have [TS]

00:18:18   their cake you need to have seven [TS]

00:18:19   dramatic moments at the end you just [TS]

00:18:20   gotta pick one yeah and I mean the same [TS]

00:18:23   thing with the middle part of this like [TS]

00:18:24   could we have just cut out all the [TS]

00:18:25   middle business and jump right to the [TS]

00:18:26   and were staring at the big giant [TS]

00:18:28   pumpkin son and sucking memories out of [TS]

00:18:30   him and the leaf like I i feel you know [TS]

00:18:33   the rest will see David you know the [TS]

00:18:35   music there's they have not overused the [TS]

00:18:37   season but they definitely did admit the [TS]

00:18:39   end of the tenth run for the music goes [TS]

00:18:41   and if one had this big epic thing [TS]

00:18:42   happening and you have to earn that and [TS]

00:18:44   I think in the 10th season as they did [TS]

00:18:46   learn that a significant amount of times [TS]

00:18:48   then towards the end they were just sort [TS]

00:18:50   of like going through the motions and [TS]

00:18:51   this one this episode I don't think they [TS]

00:18:53   earned they don't didn't turn the payoff [TS]

00:18:56   the way they want to especially since [TS]

00:18:58   there were so many different false [TS]

00:18:59   starts and there if i have a specific [TS]

00:19:01   complaint about this episode would be [TS]

00:19:02   although it tried of billion different [TS]

00:19:04   things and sort of one after the other [TS]

00:19:06   some of the more familiar enough that i [TS]

00:19:09   felt like it was almost it was a little [TS]

00:19:12   less audacious at times and a little [TS]

00:19:13   more recycled and I don't know whether [TS]

00:19:14   that's maybe that Neil cross just wasn't [TS]

00:19:16   aware that he was exploring ideas that [TS]

00:19:19   have already been explored but like the [TS]

00:19:21   singing in this episode is kind of [TS]

00:19:22   interesting and weird but it reminded me [TS]

00:19:25   of gridlock where there was also a lot [TS]

00:19:27   of singing and it was done better the [TS]

00:19:29   satan pit very much an episode that i [TS]

00:19:31   think is underrated from the tenant era [TS]

00:19:32   and the ending of this is very [TS]

00:19:36   reminiscent of that so I felt like I'd [TS]

00:19:38   seen that before and that was kind of [TS]

00:19:39   disappointing it's like recycle bits in [TS]

00:19:41   this episode to even them wandering [TS]

00:19:44   around on the planet at the beginning [TS]

00:19:45   reminds me of the doctor and donna doing [TS]

00:19:47   their thing in the bug goes on the back [TS]

00:19:50   and yeah yeah I was a better episode [TS]

00:19:53   this is remind me a better episodes so [TS]

00:19:55   so several points for for for trying [TS]

00:19:59   something new but it didn't work demands [TS]

00:20:02   crap well Scott comes in there at the [TS]

00:20:04   end just lays it down [TS]

00:20:06   stupid what's that say five people [TS]

00:20:07   products lying 10 out of 10 for style- [TS]

00:20:10   several thousand points out of 10 [TS]

00:20:12   yeah yeah yeah weird weird you know I [TS]

00:20:17   don't mind the weird it this actually at [TS]

00:20:19   this episode reminded me a little bit of [TS]

00:20:20   farscape those who might have remembered [TS]

00:20:22   that show that was a show that had [TS]

00:20:25   episodes that were it was storytelling [TS]

00:20:27   in a way that I just had never really [TS]

00:20:28   experienced it was I think maybe [TS]

00:20:29   something about being made in australia [TS]

00:20:31   maybe maybe the writers were writing it [TS]

00:20:35   in in a style that I'm not used to [TS]

00:20:37   watching mostly American and some [TS]

00:20:38   british TV and it reminded me of that a [TS]

00:20:40   little bit too like I'm not quite sure [TS]

00:20:42   what i'm watching this doesn't seem to [TS]

00:20:43   be how you would tell this story at all [TS]

00:20:45   and i like that because I feel [TS]

00:20:47   completely disconnected from my [TS]

00:20:49   expectations it just let me down in the [TS]

00:20:52   end but but weird [TS]

00:20:53   where does not bad we're just good it [TS]

00:20:55   just didn't work [TS]

00:20:57   alright let's move on to Cold War I [TS]

00:21:00   written by Mark Gatiss this is a the [TS]

00:21:04   eighties nuclear submarine episode with [TS]

00:21:08   the return of the ice quarry for this [TS]

00:21:10   can this scene get could this season get [TS]

00:21:12   anymore i love that we have okay we've [TS]

00:21:13   gone from the evil Wi-Fi [TS]

00:21:15   yes to the strange alien planet with [TS]

00:21:19   singing to the Cold War nuclear [TS]

00:21:21   submarine episode i just i do enjoy as [TS]

00:21:24   you were saying a little bit before [TS]

00:21:24   about them being bold it does seem like [TS]

00:21:27   they have really decided to cut loose [TS]

00:21:28   and jump around a lot like totally if [TS]

00:21:32   you mix in the first half of the season [TS]

00:21:33   that their last fall [TS]

00:21:35   you know in in some ways these all these [TS]

00:21:38   standalone episodes it is sort of Steven [TS]

00:21:40   Moffat saying i will show you just how [TS]

00:21:43   versatile doctor who is which has always [TS]

00:21:45   been one of the great things about [TS]

00:21:46   doctor who is it can it can be anything [TS]

00:21:49   from week to week and so this week we [TS]

00:21:51   have this eighties Cold War nuclear [TS]

00:21:55   submarine / monster movie plot that [TS]

00:22:00   happens here with David Warner as the [TS]

00:22:03   Russian scientists who likes listening [TS]

00:22:05   to English pop on his Walkman which I [TS]

00:22:09   actually I love David Warner and angry [TS]

00:22:11   and I believe devil Seaworth as the [TS]

00:22:13   captain of the submarine yes that's [TS]

00:22:15   right the onion night he see sadly [TS]

00:22:18   illiterate my latest [TS]

00:22:19   still still still gets the sale about [TS]

00:22:21   I'm very confused by your mixing of the [TS]

00:22:24   game of thrones with Doctor Who so i [TS]

00:22:25   watch this episode twice i actually when [TS]

00:22:28   i watch the first time partly because i [TS]

00:22:30   was watching with my family and it was [TS]

00:22:31   and it was a little bit chaotic and [TS]

00:22:33   we're eating dinner and and I I didn't [TS]

00:22:36   like it at all and when I watched it the [TS]

00:22:39   second time i actually liked it better i [TS]

00:22:41   was i think my expectations were off [TS]

00:22:44   when i watch this the first time I was [TS]

00:22:45   really disappointed David Warner didn't [TS]

00:22:47   have much to do but he has he has enough [TS]

00:22:49   to do I think I you know he's a lot of [TS]

00:22:52   fun and I like that the ice warriors [TS]

00:22:55   just a strange thing because it's sort [TS]

00:22:58   of like the fifth or sixth or seventh [TS]

00:23:00   doctor who monster right its way down on [TS]

00:23:02   the list hasn't been around since the [TS]

00:23:04   early seventies and they tried to do [TS]

00:23:06   something new with it [TS]

00:23:08   this did feel like one of those episodes [TS]

00:23:10   where they had sort of way too much [TS]

00:23:13   story to pack in and so there are a lot [TS]

00:23:15   of just jumping around and and and cut [TS]

00:23:17   corners don't know what did what did you [TS]

00:23:20   guys think [TS]

00:23:21   but why should there be that much story [TS]

00:23:22   for this kind of episode is the kind i [TS]

00:23:24   was actually hoping for before I saw the [TS]

00:23:26   episode like the kind where he's trapped [TS]

00:23:28   in a confined space i guess the ones [TS]

00:23:30   where they have low budget you don't [TS]

00:23:31   like we're gonna have one set i guess [TS]

00:23:32   that is not that low budget but it [TS]

00:23:34   worked with a doctor is trapped in a [TS]

00:23:35   space ship or vessel or transport of [TS]

00:23:37   some kind and the whole story is going [TS]

00:23:38   to take place there they're gonna be [TS]

00:23:40   trapped in there is going to be danger [TS]

00:23:41   and like this is epitomized for me for [TS]

00:23:43   the episode whatever it was the thing [TS]

00:23:45   it's got diamond dirt something midnight [TS]

00:23:47   everybody anyway where was the creepy [TS]

00:23:49   people talking to it like that's one [TS]

00:23:50   room and all you need there is one room [TS]

00:23:53   windows some blue screens and a good [TS]

00:23:55   script and you know it's the doctor [TS]

00:23:57   trapped in extreme situations gotta [TS]

00:23:58   figure a way out [TS]

00:23:59   I'm all thumbs up those episode great [TS]

00:24:00   put them on a submarine do something [TS]

00:24:02   wrong the submarine maybe there's an [TS]

00:24:03   alien maybe the trap maybe the submarine [TS]

00:24:04   doesn't have power and conveniently [TS]

00:24:06   spark the TARDIS out and lot J and you [TS]

00:24:08   can't get through it again [TS]

00:24:09   he always does that I don't know why [TS]

00:24:11   fine go with that but the ice warrior [TS]

00:24:14   who I didn't know cause I i started [TS]

00:24:16   watching doctor who you know with [TS]

00:24:17   Pakistan so I had no idea was a previous [TS]

00:24:19   villain and kinda like his motivation [TS]

00:24:22   was never really clear I didn't know how [TS]

00:24:24   to read him he's angry right if they [TS]

00:24:26   tried to cattle prod sometimes and he's [TS]

00:24:29   acting out of time because he's been [TS]

00:24:31   frozen for 500 [TS]

00:24:33   sneers right it's a weird combination [TS]

00:24:35   where like he really essentially the [TS]

00:24:37   speech the doctor gives is who he really [TS]

00:24:39   holds a grudge is you're gonna be sorry [TS]

00:24:42   he's really a mean guy and I like chain [TS]

00:24:44   him up and I leave him alone that Clara [TS]

00:24:46   has to go down there for some reason why [TS]

00:24:48   did she have to always read the parent [TS]

00:24:50   peril and then she runs yeah and it's [TS]

00:24:52   just you know i like i like the the [TS]

00:24:54   eighties vibe I liked most of the [TS]

00:24:56   submarine crew i like the fact that the [TS]

00:24:59   submarine was like disabled and you're [TS]

00:25:00   endangering a submarine that's always [TS]

00:25:02   good with the insurance kind of noise i [TS]

00:25:04   would like to better doctor trapped in a [TS]

00:25:06   weird situation thing [TS]

00:25:08   yeah i mean middling for me I mean I I [TS]

00:25:10   like cold war stuff a lot and I'm you [TS]

00:25:13   know [TS]

00:25:13   yeah yeah I think there's a deliberate [TS]

00:25:14   attempt here to evoke things like hunt [TS]

00:25:16   for red october which is a great movie [TS]

00:25:17   but yeah it doesn't something didn't [TS]

00:25:20   quite fire on all the right cylinders [TS]

00:25:23   for me but there is a lot of like I'd [TS]

00:25:25   like you like David Warner I thought he [TS]

00:25:27   was great it was aight i enjoyed his [TS]

00:25:28   character even if he is only used [TS]

00:25:30   sporadically but i really enjoyed they [TS]

00:25:32   had he had some good interplay with [TS]

00:25:33   Claire I thought good stuff with Clara [TS]

00:25:35   yeah and so again a maybe somewhat oddly [TS]

00:25:39   constructed at times but overall i would [TS]

00:25:42   give this one you know it's slightly [TS]

00:25:43   better than average this is one of the [TS]

00:25:45   things that I see some doctor who fans [TS]

00:25:47   comment about a lot of these episodes of [TS]

00:25:48   the season was it could have been a [TS]

00:25:50   two-parter and I actually feel like most [TS]

00:25:53   of the cases what it what what what I [TS]

00:25:55   feel is that it should have been [TS]

00:25:56   simplified not that it could have been a [TS]

00:25:58   two-parter but that it just should have [TS]

00:26:00   been simpler like skull back the ice [TS]

00:26:02   warrior I feel like his motivations [TS]

00:26:03   could have been simpler I I feel like it [TS]

00:26:05   one bit scarier if he had actually like [TS]

00:26:08   thought out or cracked out of the of the [TS]

00:26:10   ice but instead there's just like as [TS]

00:26:12   opposed to this one idiot similar George [TS]

00:26:15   hey I want to accelerate the plot [TS]

00:26:18   I want to see what is in this thing yes [TS]

00:26:21   i will get shot by a firing squad for [TS]

00:26:23   doing this but I'm just so that's [TS]

00:26:25   curious right when it's like it wouldn't [TS]

00:26:27   have been scarier if he had been you [TS]

00:26:29   know slowly melting out the doctors like [TS]

00:26:31   what what what you what did you find let [TS]

00:26:33   me see it and and and they get there too [TS]

00:26:35   late but instead they have that and [TS]

00:26:36   that's kind of dumb and and that the [TS]

00:26:38   cattle prod is he's a nice where he's a [TS]

00:26:40   he's kind of a monster anyway and then [TS]

00:26:43   and then the nuclear missiles to was [TS]

00:26:45   sort of like bizarre [TS]

00:26:46   like he figures out because the one guy [TS]

00:26:49   wants to the one Russian officer wants [TS]

00:26:52   to start Armageddon so he he gives the [TS]

00:26:55   launch information to the I swear I [TS]

00:26:58   don't know I just happen to have an [TS]

00:27:00   eighties nuclear submarine episode you [TS]

00:27:02   have to have launch codes and nuclear [TS]

00:27:04   annihilation feature in the plot like it [TS]

00:27:06   just as mandatory sure I just the way [TS]

00:27:08   that they did it seemed you know I don't [TS]

00:27:10   know I just kept feeling like there was [TS]

00:27:12   a whole lot going on and that it could [TS]

00:27:14   have been simpler and it would have been [TS]

00:27:15   more effective [TS]

00:27:16   that's true of many episodes in the [TS]

00:27:17   season it there just like there are too [TS]

00:27:19   many moving parts and i agree with you [TS]

00:27:20   if anyone misses if anyone is suggesting [TS]

00:27:22   I'm glad it and read these comments on [TS]

00:27:23   the internet that these that many [TS]

00:27:25   episodes have been too far as i know yes [TS]

00:27:27   I've been simplified into a good one [TS]

00:27:28   part because there can you imagine how [TS]

00:27:30   bad some of these would have been two [TS]

00:27:31   parts that are just you know their [TS]

00:27:33   sprawling enough [TS]

00:27:34   one thing about this when there's a name [TS]

00:27:36   i would like to 22 this year into your [TS]

00:27:40   minds and that is the name Michael pick [TS]

00:27:42   what he is the production designer [TS]

00:27:44   doctor who these days these episodes and [TS]

00:27:48   this one in particular they look [TS]

00:27:50   terrific [TS]

00:27:52   there's made this they made the sub look [TS]

00:27:54   as claustrophobic as they could within [TS]

00:27:56   the limitations of actually shooting it [TS]

00:27:58   on upset rather than and some [TS]

00:28:00   decommissioned radioactive Russian sub [TS]

00:28:04   with the water spraying everywhere is I [TS]

00:28:06   mean that's gotta be super expensive [TS]

00:28:07   because you actually did contain the [TS]

00:28:09   water and not electrocute people so they [TS]

00:28:11   spent a lot of money on that [TS]

00:28:13   yeah and it looks it up the ice warriors [TS]

00:28:16   yet the ancient ancient bad guy Robert [TS]

00:28:21   rubber suit bad guys and I'm a very bad [TS]

00:28:23   doctor who fan in that I cannot forgive [TS]

00:28:26   some of the the sum of the crappy [TS]

00:28:30   costuming and the rubber suit monsters [TS]

00:28:32   and all that stuff from the seventies I [TS]

00:28:34   thought that did a row and actually [TS]

00:28:36   decent job of updating this this [TS]

00:28:40   creature that I had absolutely no [TS]

00:28:42   interest in seeing the it looked it [TS]

00:28:45   looked kind of credible my life to [TS]

00:28:47   concede that it's the that it's a suit [TS]

00:28:49   of armor and there's a slithery lizardy [TS]

00:28:51   monster inside it is instead of just a [TS]

00:28:54   guy in a big bumbling suit which is what [TS]

00:28:56   it was like Alex in the old days yeah [TS]

00:28:58   yeah well except this guy [TS]

00:29:00   you move around maybe they could have [TS]

00:29:02   done a little bit more than just have [TS]

00:29:04   some guy wearing a pair of gloves sort [TS]

00:29:06   of dangling upside down off-camera put [TS]

00:29:09   their hands on the guys heads to be [TS]

00:29:11   scary but all that water in the [TS]

00:29:12   submarine was a very expensive they [TS]

00:29:14   couldn't afford more cgi i like it like [TS]

00:29:16   he stays to the shadows so you can't see [TS]

00:29:18   them click so that it's less complex cgi [TS]

00:29:21   yeah but you guys are right this is a [TS]

00:29:23   this is what they called back and the [TS]

00:29:26   second doctor episodes this is what they [TS]

00:29:27   called a base under siege story and so [TS]

00:29:31   many of these episodes are not just [TS]

00:29:33   efforts to show you the different kinds [TS]

00:29:36   of things that doctor who can do in John [TS]

00:29:39   but they're actually efforts to mimic [TS]

00:29:42   episodes from the past you know it's [TS]

00:29:45   almost it's almost a 50th anniversary [TS]

00:29:47   thing in and of itself that the ok let's [TS]

00:29:49   do it Patrick Troughton base under siege [TS]

00:29:52   story with the ice warriors here you go [TS]

00:29:54   let's do something that Douglas Adams [TS]

00:29:59   must have been smoking something really [TS]

00:30:01   interesting so we'll do the rings of [TS]

00:30:02   akhaten O think things like that [TS]

00:30:05   um I like this one it was it had sort of [TS]

00:30:10   the hunt for red october kind of vibe [TS]

00:30:15   not terribly substantial but it Pacey [TS]

00:30:20   yeah yeah yeah I I mean I liked it [TS]

00:30:23   better the second time I wouldn't say [TS]

00:30:25   that it was great i think the ending is [TS]

00:30:27   also kind of questionable with the and [TS]

00:30:29   they come and they get him and he [TS]

00:30:31   decides to show mercy and you know but [TS]

00:30:34   but uh the iie you're right i think [TS]

00:30:37   doctor who has never looked better in [TS]

00:30:39   any of these episodes and this is a good [TS]

00:30:40   example of that and funny ending where [TS]

00:30:43   it turns out the TARDIS is parked it in [TS]

00:30:45   Antarctica at the South Pole and he [TS]

00:30:48   needs a ride because they're at the [TS]

00:30:50   North Pole [TS]

00:30:50   alright let's move on to hide and I I [TS]

00:30:53   want to do that because this is the the [TS]

00:30:55   episode the Neil cross road that that [TS]

00:30:58   made them set up and say you should [TS]

00:30:59   write another episode which led to the [TS]

00:31:00   rings of akhaten and I'm going to say it [TS]

00:31:04   I think maybe this is the best this is [TS]

00:31:06   certainly the best episode of Doctor Who [TS]

00:31:08   in a couple years at least it is one of [TS]

00:31:11   my favorites of [TS]

00:31:13   the entire revival certainly of the [TS]

00:31:15   Steven Moffat era but probably the [TS]

00:31:17   entire revival I think doctor who has [TS]

00:31:19   never looked better [TS]

00:31:20   and although there are some problems i [TS]

00:31:22   have some quibbles with some of the [TS]

00:31:23   storytelling this is the episode that [TS]

00:31:25   set in the seventies it's all these kind [TS]

00:31:28   of orange and brown tones there's the [TS]

00:31:30   there's the professor and his and his [TS]

00:31:34   assistant who is an empath that they go [TS]

00:31:37   and visit in a haunted house and i I [TS]

00:31:41   just I loved everything about this [TS]

00:31:43   episode really i like how it looks [TS]

00:31:45   I like the the two pairs of characters [TS]

00:31:48   working together and i even i even like [TS]

00:31:52   that the kind of weird parallel universe [TS]

00:31:56   that the doctor ends up in which is [TS]

00:31:57   colored you know all blues and cold [TS]

00:31:59   colors after all the warmth of the of [TS]

00:32:02   the seventies mansion and I even like [TS]

00:32:04   the twist where it's in true doctor who [TS]

00:32:06   fashioned not actually a haunted house [TS]

00:32:07   at all but involves something [TS]

00:32:09   science-fictional so Dan you said that [TS]

00:32:11   you really like this one too right I did [TS]

00:32:13   a lot of the same reasons I mean the [TS]

00:32:15   production values he said was great i [TS]

00:32:16   thought it was effectively is very [TS]

00:32:18   atmospheric yeah I mean and if there's [TS]

00:32:20   one thing they've nailed the season it's [TS]

00:32:21   really a while the atmosphere is great [TS]

00:32:23   but this one managed to deliver i think [TS]

00:32:25   on something that was both kind of eerie [TS]

00:32:28   with the whole ghost story part of it [TS]

00:32:30   and also that somehow connected back to [TS]

00:32:32   even when even when that that arenas [TS]

00:32:36   gets neutralize quote-unquote you know [TS]

00:32:38   because it's explained what the what the [TS]

00:32:40   background is behind it it's still [TS]

00:32:42   creepy like the creatures that you deal [TS]

00:32:44   with even if they're determined to [TS]

00:32:46   eventually not be exactly harmful [TS]

00:32:48   they're still creepy right and i think [TS]

00:32:51   that's nice there's sort of a [TS]

00:32:52   through-line there it's not like Oh [TS]

00:32:53   silly to be worried about that thing all [TS]

00:32:55   along and I appreciate that [TS]

00:32:59   I mean there were you know little pieces [TS]

00:33:01   pieces here and there there's some great [TS]

00:33:02   casting again Dougray Scott as the [TS]

00:33:06   professor i love the way i reminded me [TS]

00:33:08   very the the earth atmosphere this [TS]

00:33:11   reminds me very much of the BBC BBC show [TS]

00:33:13   the hour which is a period drama and [TS]

00:33:16   they do a nice job of listening to him [TS]

00:33:18   and he's got the same accent as one of [TS]

00:33:19   the characters on that shown is that [TS]

00:33:20   he's got that nice Scottish brogue it [TS]

00:33:22   reminds me of I mean it reminds me [TS]

00:33:24   seventies Doctor Who to which is I think [TS]

00:33:26   part of what we should mention [TS]

00:33:27   Jessica Raine to who is the Midwife of [TS]

00:33:29   call the midwife [TS]

00:33:30   if you're not familiar it's big it's a [TS]

00:33:33   big pretty show Americans logic she is [TS]

00:33:36   the Midwife and I i turn my wife halfway [TS]

00:33:39   through and i said i said i don't know [TS]

00:33:41   how the story is going to end up in the [TS]

00:33:42   last five minutes or so is not great but [TS]

00:33:46   I said this is the best-looking doctor [TS]

00:33:47   who episode i have ever seen like this [TS]

00:33:50   this is like feature film quality look [TS]

00:33:53   now they constrain it to the sets in the [TS]

00:33:55   haunted house but the way it's shot the [TS]

00:33:57   weight the weight of the it's colored [TS]

00:34:00   just amazing work I find it kind of [TS]

00:34:03   ironic that we're talking about lots of [TS]

00:34:04   script problems this season as opposed [TS]

00:34:07   to saying well you know it's very [TS]

00:34:09   imaginative but they didn't have much of [TS]

00:34:10   a budget so it looks terrible this is [TS]

00:34:12   the reverse of that it's like there's [TS]

00:34:14   some script problems but it looks great [TS]

00:34:15   i'm sure that we get the holographic [TS]

00:34:18   interface to the TARDIS back again [TS]

00:34:20   that's a cause that's a callback to a [TS]

00:34:22   david tennant christopher eccleston yeah [TS]

00:34:25   and I just enjoyed that you know Claire [TS]

00:34:26   gets argue with herself for a while [TS]

00:34:28   yeah also as a as my want i will mention [TS]

00:34:31   that i enjoyed that there were several [TS]

00:34:33   elements in this episode that reminded [TS]

00:34:35   me of supernatural [TS]

00:34:36   Oh Dan well there's cold spots with [TS]

00:34:40   ghosts and stuff like yeah there are [TS]

00:34:41   creepy go six of the ends out there [TS]

00:34:44   it turns out that it's a an alien or [TS]

00:34:46   it's a time traveler who's lost in time [TS]

00:34:48   but but has glommed onto these people [TS]

00:34:51   because they're her ancestors and I and [TS]

00:34:55   then also there are a pair of of aliens [TS]

00:34:59   who have gotten separated i guess [TS]

00:35:01   because of the space-time displacement [TS]

00:35:03   I'm unclear on that one but they they [TS]

00:35:06   wanna they wanna all the spooky stuff is [TS]

00:35:08   actually just an alien that mrs. its [TS]

00:35:10   mate i just wanted to be loved just [TS]

00:35:12   wants to be like I can all scary face or [TS]

00:35:14   even scary ugly aliens want to be loved [TS]

00:35:17   so that's that's at and I like the fact [TS]

00:35:19   that it's this time traveling person [TS]

00:35:21   who's gotten kinda lost in time and he [TS]

00:35:23   does the whole thing where he takes [TS]

00:35:24   again taking a page sort of from the the [TS]

00:35:28   recipe Davis episode he takes the he [TS]

00:35:30   takes Clara from the beginning of life [TS]

00:35:32   on the earth to the end of life on the [TS]

00:35:34   earth that while he's taking pictures [TS]

00:35:35   which is a nice little montage is he [TS]

00:35:37   figures out that this will this a [TS]

00:35:39   astronaut is caught in [TS]

00:35:41   a very slow time parallel time thinking [TS]

00:35:44   if I could jump in here about Clara arm [TS]

00:35:47   when we see her at the first half of the [TS]

00:35:50   series in the solemn of the Daleks and [TS]

00:35:54   the Snowman she is just so ridiculously [TS]

00:35:56   competent yeah it's amazing here all the [TS]

00:36:01   way through this especially in this [TS]

00:36:02   episode [TS]

00:36:03   she's i want i won't say generic because [TS]

00:36:06   I I there's something about her [TS]

00:36:08   performance that I simply adore I think [TS]

00:36:10   she's the best companion actress the [TS]

00:36:12   show's had since 2005 but but she's not [TS]

00:36:18   the super woman she is a she is an [TS]

00:36:21   ordinary girl who is it who rises to the [TS]

00:36:27   occasion sometimes it gets scared [TS]

00:36:29   sometimes I I get what you guys were [TS]

00:36:32   saying earlier about her being a bit of [TS]

00:36:33   a cipher and how the actor has to pour a [TS]

00:36:37   lot into it i love with jenna-louise [TS]

00:36:39   Coleman does with this role even when [TS]

00:36:41   there's not much on the page [TS]

00:36:43   I i still am just sort of watching I I [TS]

00:36:47   like jenna-louise Coleman a lot I I have [TS]

00:36:49   a theory about Clara which is that in [TS]

00:36:51   some ways she's written to be the [TS]

00:36:54   perfect assistant assistant the perfect [TS]

00:36:57   companion so she's kind of taking all [TS]

00:36:59   the boxes in a way to just sort of like [TS]

00:37:00   be and that's part of that mystery of [TS]

00:37:03   what is she and why she the impossible [TS]

00:37:04   girl and all that and and so she does [TS]

00:37:06   read a lot different than like austin in [TS]

00:37:08   the Sun along of the Daleks super [TS]

00:37:09   knowledgeable and super snarky in a way [TS]

00:37:11   that Clara isn't but the pair's the [TS]

00:37:14   pairing in this episode 2 of clearing [TS]

00:37:16   the doctor and I guess this is the first [TS]

00:37:17   episode they shot together after the [TS]

00:37:20   Christmas special so this is the first [TS]

00:37:22   episode where she was acting as the [TS]

00:37:24   modern-day Clara I i don't know i like [TS]

00:37:27   that i like the interaction there and [TS]

00:37:28   then the interactions across the the the [TS]

00:37:31   repairs where the doctors talking to the [TS]

00:37:33   professor and and Clara is talking to [TS]

00:37:35   Emma about you know about their they're [TS]

00:37:38   sort of roles in these in these this two [TS]

00:37:40   sets relationships i thought this [TS]

00:37:42   episode was a good demonstration of the [TS]

00:37:44   the opposite of what the previous ones [TS]

00:37:46   had done where what happens when you [TS]

00:37:48   take away maybe thirty forty fifty [TS]

00:37:51   percent of you [TS]

00:37:52   our story elements and you're left with [TS]

00:37:54   a few haunted house one single mystery [TS]

00:37:57   what the explanation is for the haunted [TS]

00:37:58   house to people in the house one [TS]

00:38:00   relationship between them [TS]

00:38:01   dr. relationship with a partner maybe i [TS]

00:38:03   would leave lose the lovesick monster [TS]

00:38:06   creature [TS]

00:38:07   yeah like to drop that one out but other [TS]

00:38:08   than that like there's not that many [TS]

00:38:10   elements there's one there's one set [TS]

00:38:11   there's very simple threats simple [TS]

00:38:14   explanations for them [TS]

00:38:15   you don't have to move to seven [TS]

00:38:16   different locations to resolve this plot [TS]

00:38:18   over everyone you have that room to [TS]

00:38:19   breathe then you can you know flesh out [TS]

00:38:22   the relationship between the professor [TS]

00:38:23   in the system and flesh out the [TS]

00:38:25   different ways that Clara can feel [TS]

00:38:27   instead of just being you know smoky and [TS]

00:38:29   pouty and clever having a couple you [TS]

00:38:31   know and that it just gives that the [TS]

00:38:34   show room to breathe I thought and yeah [TS]

00:38:35   it's nice that it was you know a single [TS]

00:38:37   set or even was a real house for real [TS]

00:38:40   said whatever you did it didn't look [TS]

00:38:41   good you didn't have that lots of green [TS]

00:38:42   screen in bed cg and everything and just [TS]

00:38:44   let the show breathe when you get a nice [TS]

00:38:46   episode right there is really nice quiet [TS]

00:38:48   scenes with dialogue in the first half [TS]

00:38:50   of this with the various characters in [TS]

00:38:52   the haunted house that are so great and [TS]

00:38:54   not kind of insanely fast paced and [TS]

00:38:57   you're right it does it does breathe [TS]

00:38:59   because it's a simple story [TS]

00:39:00   Scott did you have a verdict on this one [TS]

00:39:02   I say this one's good [TS]

00:39:04   yup alright i don't want Clara but [TS]

00:39:07   others in the hell is on any of them but [TS]

00:39:09   wow what [TS]

00:39:10   that's insanity I don't like her I think [TS]

00:39:14   that the ib the actress center is a [TS]

00:39:17   lovely person to find why do i why do [TS]

00:39:20   you hate generally is Coleman personally [TS]

00:39:22   personally why do you [TS]

00:39:23   well she did snub me once but that's [TS]

00:39:26   some free she knows what she did right [TS]

00:39:28   Scott exact option I don't need to tell [TS]

00:39:30   her she's the impossible girl she knows [TS]

00:39:32   I I i just have a problem with her [TS]

00:39:35   character not the character itself [TS]

00:39:38   I feel like they're building a while I [TS]

00:39:40   mean it's the we saw the finale so [TS]

00:39:42   they're building up to this big mystery [TS]

00:39:45   and wished it really reveal in the [TS]

00:39:47   finale and I think that ultimately it [TS]

00:39:51   will just be a disappointment and that [TS]

00:39:52   her character we'll just serve to annoy [TS]

00:39:54   me if you're expecting her to be special [TS]

00:39:56   because she's special in some way the [TS]

00:39:58   answer is that's not it she special [TS]

00:40:00   because she makes a decision to do [TS]

00:40:02   something that leads to this but it's [TS]

00:40:04   not like there is a super [TS]

00:40:05   secret about why she's so exceptional [TS]

00:40:08   although that's sort of refreshing in [TS]

00:40:09   some ways after some of the other [TS]

00:40:11   companion stories we've had but all [TS]

00:40:13   right Scott she knows what she did she [TS]

00:40:16   does and I don't affect they keep [TS]

00:40:18   telling the look she's so special she so [TS]

00:40:21   competent she could do everything well [TS]

00:40:24   that's because she had all the knowledge [TS]

00:40:25   of computers downloaded into her brain [TS]

00:40:27   accidentally it doesn't hurt before we [TS]

00:40:30   leave this episode on the subject of [TS]

00:40:31   mysteries there's another aspect of this [TS]

00:40:33   i like that you know we have the central [TS]

00:40:34   mystery of the Haunted apparition shape [TS]

00:40:36   and what the professor is investigating [TS]

00:40:38   and they're going to give one [TS]

00:40:40   explanation for that and the explanation [TS]

00:40:42   doesn't have to be like oh I never [TS]

00:40:44   would've thought of that because it's [TS]

00:40:45   kind of not obvious but like it makes [TS]

00:40:47   sense within the context of time travel [TS]

00:40:49   but as Dan said even after they [TS]

00:40:51   explained to you and it makes sense it's [TS]

00:40:53   still sort of creepy and that's what you [TS]

00:40:54   want you don't you don't have to kill [TS]

00:40:56   yourself trying to think of something [TS]

00:40:57   that's so clever the no viewer will ever [TS]

00:40:59   think of it because then ends up being [TS]

00:41:00   absurd or stupid you know give an [TS]

00:41:02   explanation for this [TS]

00:41:04   and once you know the explanation like [TS]

00:41:05   ooh that's still kind of unsettling and [TS]

00:41:07   weird you know [TS]

00:41:08   yeah that that's what I look for in a [TS]

00:41:10   doctor who premise and it sometimes [TS]

00:41:12   they're just trying too hard to out [TS]

00:41:15   clever themselves you don't need to do [TS]

00:41:17   that like it can it can be almost kind [TS]

00:41:19   of obvious or these obvious in [TS]

00:41:22   retrospect as long as there's something [TS]

00:41:24   to it like a Twilight Zone episode or [TS]

00:41:26   something we're right the big 10 members [TS]

00:41:28   like I was some crazy twist or whatever [TS]

00:41:29   but just somewhat unsettling and that's [TS]

00:41:31   fine too i have to say that there's a [TS]

00:41:34   doctor who fans like to speculate [TS]

00:41:36   additional complaining about how it's [TS]

00:41:37   not as as good as it was when it was 6 [TS]

00:41:39   25 minute episodes of the genesis of the [TS]

00:41:41   Daleks what another doctor who episodes [TS]

00:41:43   like your doctor who fans like to fret [TS]

00:41:45   about our when will the doctor be [TS]

00:41:47   leaving and when will cool the next [TS]

00:41:49   showrunner be to replace Steven Moffat [TS]

00:41:52   who will that be and will be Mark Davis [TS]

00:41:53   will be somebody else and i will say [TS]

00:41:56   that if I had a vote today of the people [TS]

00:41:59   who've been involved with Doctor Who up [TS]

00:42:01   to now I think I might actually say Neil [TS]

00:42:02   cross I know he's got Luther and he [TS]

00:42:05   might have other things on his mind [TS]

00:42:06   might not want to do it but i only say [TS]

00:42:08   that because this was a very good [TS]

00:42:10   episode that showed his kind of [TS]

00:42:11   storytelling in a way that wasn't all [TS]

00:42:13   frantic and packed in and yeah he wrote [TS]

00:42:15   that really crazy episode the rings of [TS]

00:42:17   akhaten but i would say there [TS]

00:42:19   that I would cite that as an example of [TS]

00:42:21   him being willing to try crazy stuff so [TS]

00:42:23   you put the two together and that's not [TS]

00:42:25   a bad combination so you know maybe just [TS]

00:42:27   reminded me of a blink in some ways I [TS]

00:42:30   mean there's a similar sort of [TS]

00:42:31   atmosphere a similar sort of i mean [TS]

00:42:34   you've got the time era to write like [TS]

00:42:35   they're playing around with a little bit [TS]

00:42:37   i don't i just i'd there was something [TS]

00:42:39   very atmospheric and effective about [TS]

00:42:41   that in you know playing obviously i [TS]

00:42:43   think is the most people probably agree [TS]

00:42:46   the one of the best if not the best [TS]

00:42:47   episode since the reboot yeah so you [TS]

00:42:51   know if that's your your product you [TS]

00:42:52   have that sort of the president you're [TS]

00:42:54   looking at then this is a pretty good [TS]

00:42:55   audition yeah i agree that's why i asked [TS]

00:42:58   him to read another episode it was rings [TS]

00:42:59   of akhaten but you know hey this was a [TS]

00:43:01   good episode can't win them all [TS]

00:43:03   no all right I'm gonna take a minute [TS]

00:43:06   away from our discussion of Doctor Who [TS]

00:43:08   to talk about our sponsor yes it's hard [TS]

00:43:11   to believe but it's true the [TS]

00:43:12   incomparable has a sponsor and it's a [TS]

00:43:15   great sponsor its audible the leading [TS]

00:43:16   provider of downloadable audiobooks with [TS]

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00:43:26   audiobooks anytime anywhere on any [TS]

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00:43:34   and they've got it [TS]

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00:43:38   listeners a free audiobook along with a [TS]

00:43:40   30-day trial go to www.google.com cast [TS]

00:43:46   dot-com / incomparable to take advantage [TS]

00:43:49   of this special offer [TS]

00:43:51   now what book am I going to recommend to [TS]

00:43:53   you this is a doctor who episode of the [TS]

00:43:54   incomparable so i'm going to recommend [TS]

00:43:56   to Doctor Who related audiobooks one of [TS]

00:44:00   them is shotta which if you don't know [TS]

00:44:01   is the lost episode of the Tom Baker [TS]

00:44:04   years of doctor who it was written by [TS]

00:44:06   Douglas Adams but due to an industrial [TS]

00:44:08   action as they call it which is [TS]

00:44:10   basically a strike [TS]

00:44:12   they shot all of the all the outdoor [TS]

00:44:14   stuff and then they were supposed to go [TS]

00:44:17   into the studio to shoot the rest of the [TS]

00:44:18   episode and all the studio state chance [TS]

00:44:21   were on strike so they never finished [TS]

00:44:22   the episode it's become this legendary [TS]

00:44:23   lost episode of Doctor Who so Gareth [TS]

00:44:26   Roberts who works on the modern Doctor [TS]

00:44:29   Who staff as a script editor [TS]

00:44:32   took douglas adams Original Screenplay [TS]

00:44:34   and adapted it into a novel sort of in [TS]

00:44:37   the style of douglas adams and the [TS]

00:44:39   audiobook is narrated by lolla Ward who [TS]

00:44:42   played romana the companion in that [TS]

00:44:45   episode of Doctor Who so shotta just [TS]

00:44:47   came out [TS]

00:44:48   narrated by lal award SH รก da you can [TS]

00:44:52   check it out in the show notes and it's [TS]

00:44:53   on audible.com and then the other thing [TS]

00:44:56   I'll allah i'll plug is something called [TS]

00:44:59   hornet's nest [TS]

00:45:00   it's an again a Tom Baker this is [TS]

00:45:02   notable because for the first time in [TS]

00:45:04   decades Tom Baker came back and narrated [TS]

00:45:06   this series of audiobooks called [TS]

00:45:08   hornet's nest written by Paul Mars that [TS]

00:45:10   are not quite audiobooks and not quite [TS]

00:45:13   full cast audio plays there somewhere in [TS]

00:45:15   between features Tom Baker it also [TS]

00:45:17   features richard franklin who played my [TS]

00:45:19   gates in the original series and several [TS]

00:45:21   other actors and it's a really [TS]

00:45:23   interesting weird creepy series of audio [TS]

00:45:26   adventures starting the fourth doctor so [TS]

00:45:29   those are just two of the many many [TS]

00:45:31   Doctor Who titles including books read [TS]

00:45:33   by david tennant and matt smith that [TS]

00:45:36   you'll find on audible so once again if [TS]

00:45:40   you want that free 30-day trial and a [TS]

00:45:42   free audiobook go to audible podcast.com [TS]

00:45:44   slash and comparable and sign up that [TS]

00:45:47   will make them very happy that will make [TS]

00:45:49   us very happy anyway back to the latest [TS]

00:45:53   and greatest doctor who now journey to [TS]

00:45:55   the center CNT re because it's English [TS]

00:45:59   of the TARDIS speaking of you can't win [TS]

00:46:02   em all [TS]

00:46:04   alright the neyser out this is the [TS]

00:46:07   episode in which these guys on a salvage [TS]

00:46:11   ship turn on a big magnet which breaks [TS]

00:46:14   the TARDIS I guess because this is the [TS]

00:46:17   doctor turned everything off because the [TS]

00:46:20   dark so that the cleric and drive the [TS]

00:46:21   TARDIS yeah because if you're going to [TS]

00:46:24   have you're gonna hand over your time [TS]

00:46:25   machine to someone who's never piloted [TS]

00:46:27   the time she turned off the shade all [TS]

00:46:28   the shield yeah because that makes [TS]

00:46:30   perfect sense [TS]

00:46:31   sure why not and and it does something [TS]

00:46:33   terrible that causes the starkest to [TS]

00:46:36   supposedly self-destructive in 30 [TS]

00:46:38   minutes so the doctor essentially [TS]

00:46:40   forcibly kidnaps the crew of the salvage [TS]

00:46:42   ship telling them that he's going to [TS]

00:46:44   blow up the target is that they don't [TS]

00:46:46   help [TS]

00:46:46   I'm fine clara who is lost somewhere [TS]

00:46:47   inside there's also a scene at the [TS]

00:46:51   beginning of this where they find they [TS]

00:46:52   see some feet underneath the TARDIS like [TS]

00:46:54   somebody's been crushed by the TARDIS [TS]

00:46:55   and then the doctor appears from behind [TS]

00:46:57   them and it was unclear to me what that [TS]

00:47:00   was and whether that was supposed to be [TS]

00:47:02   the doctor Wicked Witch of the weather [TS]

00:47:04   which it was a witch featurette up [TS]

00:47:07   that's right it was a end and then they [TS]

00:47:09   go through and there are there are times [TS]

00:47:11   amies wandering around in the TARDIS and [TS]

00:47:14   the TARDIS goes on forever and and and [TS]

00:47:17   chip I think this might actually be from [TS]

00:47:19   your podcast that we finally get to see [TS]

00:47:21   the inside of the TARDIS which consists [TS]

00:47:23   largely of quarters and one tracking [TS]

00:47:25   shot where she walks past a bunch of [TS]

00:47:27   entryways where there's been a green [TS]

00:47:30   screen and matted in is like a picture [TS]

00:47:32   of a swimming pool and a picture of a [TS]

00:47:34   library [TS]

00:47:35   we've been waiting for ages to see the [TS]

00:47:37   inside of the TARDIS and it's Huey Lewis [TS]

00:47:39   and the news heart and soul video but [TS]

00:47:42   it's just really boring the library was [TS]

00:47:45   nice the library the library was nice [TS]

00:47:47   and very tall and i like that scene [TS]

00:47:49   where she's going past all those it's [TS]

00:47:50   like you know sometimes your imagination [TS]

00:47:52   is better than me then the reality or at [TS]

00:47:54   least the budget constraint reality of [TS]

00:47:56   my I found in in the Christmas invasion [TS]

00:47:58   I actually backed up and watch that [TS]

00:47:59   scene of david tennant in the wardrobe [TS]

00:48:02   picking his clothes out like a million [TS]

00:48:04   times being like a look at their spiral [TS]

00:48:06   staircase and it's all this and that was [TS]

00:48:08   it that we had seen other than when Amy [TS]

00:48:09   runs around in the neil gaiman episode [TS]

00:48:11   the doctor's wife so we get here and [TS]

00:48:13   it's kinda boring inside there it's just [TS]

00:48:16   running around and corridors with time [TS]

00:48:19   zombies [TS]

00:48:19   I I think use that you you nail it would [TS]

00:48:21   be sometimes your imagination is better [TS]

00:48:23   and i think that's that's one thing that [TS]

00:48:25   it's really hard for a lot of TV shows [TS]

00:48:28   to realize especially things like the [TS]

00:48:30   Doctor Who which has such a long history [TS]

00:48:31   behind it is sometimes your imagination [TS]

00:48:33   is better sometimes you don't need to [TS]

00:48:34   show everything and the suggestion of [TS]

00:48:37   something especially that works great in [TS]

00:48:39   in a horror to write I think there's a [TS]

00:48:41   lot of times where it's like when you [TS]

00:48:43   let the person's imagination fill in the [TS]

00:48:45   scary thing as opposed to showing them [TS]

00:48:47   be scary thing which is a right I in a [TS]

00:48:49   rubber suit or a crappy CGI monster much [TS]

00:48:52   scarier when your mind is filling in the [TS]

00:48:53   blanks so the same way here and there [TS]

00:48:56   stuff i don't know this is a problem [TS]

00:48:58   with you know I think they're there some [TS]

00:48:59   coming [TS]

00:49:00   this temptation of it's the 50th [TS]

00:49:01   anniversary we gotta pull out all the [TS]

00:49:02   stops yes [TS]

00:49:03   so we're getting the inside the target [TS]

00:49:05   is they're talking about the name of the [TS]

00:49:06   doctors will get to in a little bit all [TS]

00:49:09   this stuff where it's like you don't you [TS]

00:49:12   lose more by bounding it to something in [TS]

00:49:16   reality now [TS]

00:49:18   oh and and possibly hanging yourself and [TS]

00:49:20   later sure the TARDIS is infinite you [TS]

00:49:21   can probably get away with having all [TS]

00:49:23   sorts of you know additional things here [TS]

00:49:26   on down the road but the same time it [TS]

00:49:28   just I don't know it's to me it is it is [TS]

00:49:31   it's no matter what it would have been [TS]

00:49:33   it would have been anticlimactic it [TS]

00:49:35   would not have lived up to it like the [TS]

00:49:36   fields of trenzalore like the we don't [TS]

00:49:38   need an explanation of that is just [TS]

00:49:39   great as a mystery right guys right but [TS]

00:49:43   so that was my main problem with this [TS]

00:49:44   episode is what I accept the TARDIS is [TS]

00:49:46   infinite on the inside right so why [TS]

00:49:49   would the doctor bother you know [TS]

00:49:51   Shanghai Shanghai three barely competent [TS]

00:49:55   but i salvaged guys to help him look for [TS]

00:49:59   someone in the targets that he has been [TS]

00:50:01   flying around in hundreds of years and [TS]

00:50:03   he has seemingly no idea where anything [TS]

00:50:05   is either all of course that he says the [TS]

00:50:07   target is reconfiguring yourself fine [TS]

00:50:09   whatever but it just doesn't make any [TS]

00:50:10   sense there's no reason for him to bring [TS]

00:50:12   them with those three had to learn an [TS]

00:50:13   important lesson about turning your [TS]

00:50:15   brother into a robot haha tomorrow the [TS]

00:50:19   end of the story it's like that and that [TS]

00:50:20   was that don't do that there's a couple [TS]

00:50:22   things in there that are you see there [TS]

00:50:24   are things in their great ingredients [TS]

00:50:25   right i like the idea of someone being [TS]

00:50:26   lost inside the TARDIS because it's huge [TS]

00:50:29   and I like the idea even that the doctor [TS]

00:50:31   doesn't know all the way around it [TS]

00:50:32   because we've established that it's [TS]

00:50:34   basically a living entity right and it's [TS]

00:50:36   temperamental [TS]

00:50:37   I mean I'm okay with that I even like [TS]

00:50:38   the fact that he that he basically tries [TS]

00:50:41   to blackmail these guys you know [TS]

00:50:43   threaten them into helping him even if [TS]

00:50:45   it turns out to be a bluff because again [TS]

00:50:47   it's that edge line that we've seen the [TS]

00:50:49   dr walk in the past where it's well [TS]

00:50:52   sometimes he's kind of insane and I i [TS]

00:50:54   kinda like when they veer into some of [TS]

00:50:56   the darker stuff for him and we haven't [TS]

00:50:58   seen that as much with matt smith as we [TS]

00:51:00   did say toward the end of the david [TS]

00:51:02   tennant run but there's there's [TS]

00:51:04   definitely stuff in there their [TS]

00:51:06   ingredients i like the problem is yeah [TS]

00:51:08   they're connected kind of haphazardly [TS]

00:51:10   and the stuff that doesn't really make [TS]

00:51:12   any sense i I couldn't figure out [TS]

00:51:13   I got to the end of like you know where [TS]

00:51:14   they had the times on bees and was like [TS]

00:51:16   amazing amazing what were these guys [TS]

00:51:18   what happened [TS]

00:51:19   um I like the idea that one of them was [TS]

00:51:21   Claire all burned up that was a that was [TS]

00:51:23   devastated is fine to me [TS]

00:51:25   Wow no not not in the way that Scott [TS]

00:51:27   would have meant that if he had said no [TS]

00:51:29   no it was an interesting twist although [TS]

00:51:32   there are things about that sort of [TS]

00:51:34   don't make any sense either [TS]

00:51:36   well like a clerestory is very confused [TS]

00:51:38   and I'm always looking for something to [TS]

00:51:39   latch onto it as her arc so whenever [TS]

00:51:41   they hinted the fact that shit her story [TS]

00:51:44   is that she doesn't know that she's [TS]

00:51:46   constantly dying the doctors trying to [TS]

00:51:47   hide that from her [TS]

00:51:48   that's a reasonable tension that they [TS]

00:51:50   kind of let sputters that like she could [TS]

00:51:53   if she had kept dying and that the [TS]

00:51:55   doctor was tortured by the fact that he [TS]

00:51:57   knew that she was going to keep dying [TS]

00:51:58   and it's hard to like hang out with [TS]

00:51:59   somebody when you know okay well in 10 [TS]

00:52:01   minutes you're probably going to die but [TS]

00:52:02   I really don't want you to know that I [TS]

00:52:04   going to meet you in the next episode [TS]

00:52:05   anyway but they didn't didn't really [TS]

00:52:06   stick to that but in this episode was [TS]

00:52:07   there a little bit of our he's like I [TS]

00:52:09   know that that's you and you're probably [TS]

00:52:11   gonna die and I know it's tough to keep [TS]

00:52:13   going on if you know what's gonna happen [TS]

00:52:14   to you but just you know we got to kind [TS]

00:52:16   of go with the flow air and you might be [TS]

00:52:18   printed [TS]

00:52:19   no wait i'm confused that's totally [TS]

00:52:22   different [TS]

00:52:23   also that they you're going to be fine [TS]

00:52:25   and look fine until at some point you [TS]

00:52:27   instantly turned into a molten lava a [TS]

00:52:30   monster zombie time [TS]

00:52:32   cotton is not true for all of us well [TS]

00:52:35   that's a place where special effects are [TS]

00:52:36   limiting factor you can only you know [TS]

00:52:38   yeah i was just kind of hoping that that [TS]

00:52:40   could you not tell this and have them [TS]

00:52:42   like it become increasingly kind of [TS]

00:52:44   damage looking and and be like you know [TS]

00:52:46   we're not going to make it now where we [TS]

00:52:47   know we're doomed and and then they [TS]

00:52:49   realize that these guys are them but [TS]

00:52:50   instead it was sort of like you know I [TS]

00:52:53   like the scene where they're locked out [TS]

00:52:55   there surrounded on both sides and [TS]

00:52:57   they're in this fatal chamber [TS]

00:52:58   I mean that's that's pretty good right [TS]

00:53:00   that's not a bad little set-piece that [TS]

00:53:02   they look like well what do we do we [TS]

00:53:04   have zombies over there and zombies over [TS]

00:53:05   here and we're standing in this fatal [TS]

00:53:07   radiation this is not good armies to the [TS]

00:53:09   left of us sometimes the invite us [TS]

00:53:11   exactly as the you know it's a classic I [TS]

00:53:13   think Shakespeare did something about [TS]

00:53:15   that anyway [TS]

00:53:15   the star was learning to us to take that [TS]

00:53:17   clarity Anchorhead and have its memory [TS]

00:53:18   erased the end of it [TS]

00:53:20   yeah I did out i liked actually kind of [TS]

00:53:22   liked the ending just misses I know any [TS]

00:53:24   people could say well it's just a reset [TS]

00:53:26   button and [TS]

00:53:27   that but we saw those a very literal [TS]

00:53:29   reset but yea big friendly button and it [TS]

00:53:31   we see it at the beginning and it comes [TS]

00:53:33   back at the end and it i don't think [TS]

00:53:36   that's much different than having you [TS]

00:53:40   know data see the three dots on Rikers [TS]

00:53:42   collar and say oh ok and you know that [TS]

00:53:45   sort of not the point and I felt like [TS]

00:53:47   they had set up in the beginning enough [TS]

00:53:48   that it didn't bother me in the end when [TS]

00:53:50   when he rewrites the past the brothers [TS]

00:53:53   though I didn't like that that was that [TS]

00:53:55   seems that was such a bizarre story [TS]

00:53:58   about the brother who they told is an [TS]

00:54:00   Android and is always one extra plotline [TS]

00:54:03   always one too many [TS]

00:54:05   yeah that did not really i mean if you [TS]

00:54:07   just had the three brothers being you [TS]

00:54:09   know hijack the android thing was [TS]

00:54:10   totally superfluous it really like you [TS]

00:54:13   could take that out there and it would [TS]

00:54:14   it would it would not harm the story [TS]

00:54:16   they don't they don't need the conflict [TS]

00:54:17   like the three brothers can be [TS]

00:54:18   characters and companions but they [TS]

00:54:20   should be like one plot entity they [TS]

00:54:22   don't need to have their own [TS]

00:54:23   interpersonal conflict because we don't [TS]

00:54:25   care about the resolution between those [TS]

00:54:26   two brothers aren't characters that were [TS]

00:54:28   invested in so we're not like all those [TS]

00:54:29   guys you really make up because it's not [TS]

00:54:31   you know so don't don't add conflict and [TS]

00:54:33   tension between two characters that [TS]

00:54:35   we're never going to see again that we [TS]

00:54:36   don't care about that's just a waste it [TS]

00:54:37   does the doctor really need to be put in [TS]

00:54:40   a position where he's a kidnapping these [TS]

00:54:43   guys and lying to them and locking them [TS]

00:54:46   in the target so that he held me there [TS]

00:54:47   if they're going for his are three [TS]

00:54:49   angles like like damn was saying with [TS]

00:54:50   later tennis then find that you you [TS]

00:54:52   could build up to it but they didn't [TS]

00:54:53   they never really committed to that to [TS]

00:54:55   that trajectory for the season [TS]

00:54:57   yeah they didn't they didn't earn that [TS]

00:54:58   you know I just don't I don't think that [TS]

00:55:00   that's consistent with matt smith and [TS]

00:55:01   how he's played the doctor at all i [TS]

00:55:03   think that's I think that's and he tries [TS]

00:55:05   to stay later I was just fooling you and [TS]

00:55:06   thinking that but i think that's kind of [TS]

00:55:08   kind of bad and I think it's bad I have [TS]

00:55:11   it I have it it's a call back to the [TS]

00:55:13   very first episode he kidnapped him just [TS]

00:55:15   like yeah that is barbarous just as mean [TS]

00:55:17   as William Hartnell was its 50th [TS]

00:55:18   anniversary happy anniversary everyone i [TS]

00:55:21   had to restore by doctor who christmas [TS]

00:55:22   have some well play that's why you're [TS]

00:55:24   here [TS]

00:55:24   well Matt Smith does have like he did [TS]

00:55:26   hit the darkest matt smith has [TS]

00:55:28   depression because after the whole Amy [TS]

00:55:29   Pond thing he supposedly you know it [TS]

00:55:32   goes off as you know boy what do i do to [TS]

00:55:34   these poor people or whatever that's [TS]

00:55:35   another one of my complaints about this [TS]

00:55:36   season is that like that the Clara ark [TS]

00:55:39   was like [TS]

00:55:40   this season is going to be someone or [TS]

00:55:42   something has to pull him out of his [TS]

00:55:44   funk because he's like oh I totally [TS]

00:55:46   screwed over that pond girl and Rory and [TS]

00:55:48   everything what kind of person am i what [TS]

00:55:50   am i doing to these people like that is [TS]

00:55:52   that's his dark side or at least so far [TS]

00:55:54   we seem as Darkseid is being depressed [TS]

00:55:57   and the doctor is kind of a terrible [TS]

00:55:58   person and bad things happen when you're [TS]

00:55:59   around him and we needed something this [TS]

00:56:01   season is like who would pull him out of [TS]

00:56:03   this but it you know within 1 episode is [TS]

00:56:05   like a look at this chipper young girl [TS]

00:56:06   she's so cute and I'm fine I'm back to [TS]

00:56:08   being the doctor and I didn't like that [TS]

00:56:09   either [TS]

00:56:10   speaking of overall season things and [TS]

00:56:12   I'll just take these three guys who will [TS]

00:56:14   be of no help into an incredibly [TS]

00:56:16   dangerous situation for no real reason [TS]

00:56:18   yes and there no he'll be fine and that [TS]

00:56:20   guy's not a robot by the way what huh i [TS]

00:56:24   know i would you do that to your brother [TS]

00:56:26   that that seems excessively meaningful [TS]

00:56:30   that's like a party a party game like [TS]

00:56:32   when you're drawing marker on people's [TS]

00:56:33   faces when I fall asleep or you make [TS]

00:56:34   selling is that I mean that's mean but [TS]

00:56:37   that's not excessively meeting with [TS]

00:56:39   where it's been pointed out in the [TS]

00:56:40   chatroom that this allows them to have [TS]

00:56:42   their their timely and important [TS]

00:56:43   anti-bullying message [TS]

00:56:45   don't don't tell that kid that these are [TS]

00:56:48   road all your little brother he's an [TS]

00:56:50   anti-rape you might believe it it might [TS]

00:56:52   be funny for the first few years but [TS]

00:56:53   eventually it becomes a source of tennis [TS]

00:56:55   like the equivalent of telling your [TS]

00:56:56   little brother these adopted right like [TS]

00:56:58   oh yeah mom and dad don't love you [TS]

00:56:59   because you're a robot that let me get [TS]

00:57:01   this straight there's a horrible [TS]

00:57:02   accident [TS]

00:57:03   your father was killed and your brother [TS]

00:57:04   is brain-damaged what do you do you [TS]

00:57:07   mainly on the list of rain damage but [TS]

00:57:09   yea spaces lonely and this is not a lot [TS]

00:57:12   of entertainment [TS]

00:57:12   wow we got to make do with what you guys [TS]

00:57:14   all right let's let's um let's move on [TS]

00:57:19   that was not for everyone ah what's next [TS]

00:57:24   the Crimson horror by markets which is [TS]

00:57:26   the the penny dreadful right it's it's a [TS]

00:57:30   there's a there's a horrible secret in [TS]

00:57:33   the factory and they go there with the [TS]

00:57:36   and told in an interesting way where we [TS]

00:57:39   we don't see the doctor for a while and [TS]

00:57:42   turns out the doctors already been there [TS]

00:57:44   and has been captured and has been [TS]

00:57:45   dipped in a terrible substance that is [TS]

00:57:49   paralyzed him but it's the [TS]

00:57:50   investigations of Madame vastra Jenny [TS]

00:57:52   and [TS]

00:57:53   tracks the are our intrepid team that we [TS]

00:57:56   last saw in the the Christmas special [TS]

00:57:59   so we got the Victorian era mystery [TS]

00:58:02   another game of thrones cross over here [TS]

00:58:06   because the the villain in this [TS]

00:58:08   Oh Diana Rigg diana rigg yes I i kinda [TS]

00:58:10   liked this episode because it was kind [TS]

00:58:12   of silly and silly and ridiculous and [TS]

00:58:14   fun in a way i get again they did a good [TS]

00:58:17   job of nailing a time period you got [TS]

00:58:19   that sort of victorian-era and I love [TS]

00:58:21   Jean right it's it's that it's that kind [TS]

00:58:23   of story it's the very Victorian kind of [TS]

00:58:26   right right and I and I enjoy the [TS]

00:58:28   secondary cast who we've kind of grown [TS]

00:58:30   to know now right do Madame vastra Jenny [TS]

00:58:33   and Strax I i enjoy their appearances [TS]

00:58:36   they have a good dynamic I really really [TS]

00:58:38   like strikes like anything with tracks [TS]

00:58:40   in it and so you know for me I felt like [TS]

00:58:43   I enjoyed the first ten you know 10 15 [TS]

00:58:46   minutes when you don't really get into [TS]

00:58:47   having the doctor and then that to me [TS]

00:58:50   that makes it more satisfying when they [TS]

00:58:52   eventually do get him cleaned up and he [TS]

00:58:54   gets back into shape there and I mean I [TS]

00:58:56   think your monitor is that we've been [TS]

00:58:58   less like well this time the [TS]

00:58:59   Frankenstein monster red hulk right [TS]

00:59:01   around sure good [TS]

00:59:03   nice try John good comic book guy [TS]

00:59:05   reference yeah I'm so yeah I i was a fan [TS]

00:59:09   I enjoyed it [TS]

00:59:10   yeah I love those characters i mean i am [TS]

00:59:12   the more the more Strax and Madame [TS]

00:59:14   vastra you get better and Jenny actually [TS]

00:59:16   takes the lead here which is nice [TS]

00:59:18   because she was kind of the the least [TS]

00:59:21   focused on of those three characters I'd [TS]

00:59:23   say and you know I just [TS]

00:59:25   it's a declare is at the back here [TS]

00:59:27   Claire kinda doesn't have anything to do [TS]

00:59:29   here but as Scott would view that as a [TS]

00:59:32   plus right i infected you know but I I [TS]

00:59:38   don't know it was it was a it was fun it [TS]

00:59:41   was it was ridiculous right because [TS]

00:59:42   she's got a rocket I'm not sure they're [TS]

00:59:44   how the rocket technology comes to be [TS]

00:59:46   that she's got it is a simple think [TS]

00:59:48   you're right you're right where the [TS]

00:59:50   Zeppelin's they just need some more [TS]

00:59:51   Zeppelin's I didn't realize I was just [TS]

00:59:53   looking at the wikipedia entry be the [TS]

00:59:54   actress who plays diana reyes daughter [TS]

00:59:56   is actually going on with sorry yeah oh [TS]

00:59:57   yeah and uh and there's a lead [TS]

00:59:57   yeah and uh and there's a lead [TS]

01:00:00   there's like a brain leach that's behind [TS]

01:00:01   it all which and y know I never liked [TS]

01:00:04   you [TS]

01:00:04   chepa sodes I don't like little beach [TS]

01:00:08   sonra yeah i like the bug episodes will [TS]

01:00:11   go with it's a big bug or something with [TS]

01:00:12   the leech episodes or it's just like [TS]

01:00:14   this little and then you feel bad for [TS]

01:00:15   what it's on the ground like a little [TS]

01:00:16   like a little shrimp crawling around you [TS]

01:00:18   like that was a that was our existential [TS]

01:00:20   threat that blind girl just had an [TS]

01:00:23   amazing game didn't she [TS]

01:00:25   yeah she's lashing out at stake I I am I [TS]

01:00:29   i got a good props to I got your props [TS]

01:00:32   to diana rigg for being willing to take [TS]

01:00:34   the the the leech prosthetic in stride [TS]

01:00:38   she's classy she's a classy lady yeah so [TS]

01:00:40   the first leash things might this was my [TS]

01:00:42   favorite of the season [TS]

01:00:43   I I swear it was so much fun it was it [TS]

01:00:46   was it was it was it had some of the [TS]

01:00:49   weirdness in not making sense of the [TS]

01:00:52   rings of akhaten but it was just pure [TS]

01:00:54   fun [TS]

01:00:56   yeah i agree that's all I ask for in my [TS]

01:00:57   doctor who is I asked for [TS]

01:00:59   I asked for fun that doesn't make me [TS]

01:01:01   angry yet though this was this was yeah [TS]

01:01:05   that I think that's exactly it is is I [TS]

01:01:07   don't I don't necessarily feel like it [TS]

01:01:08   had that the kind of like the the tip [TS]

01:01:11   the depth or the where the flavor of [TS]

01:01:13   something like hide but it was i I just [TS]

01:01:16   had a fun time the entire time I was [TS]

01:01:18   just sort of like oh this is great look [TS]

01:01:19   at those characters running around [TS]

01:01:21   there's a of course there's a leech [TS]

01:01:22   that's kill you know and I I didn't have [TS]

01:01:24   to i didn't get upset it's like well I [TS]

01:01:26   mad that was leached that's not you know [TS]

01:01:28   I my expectations weren't I was just [TS]

01:01:30   having fun watching it did of course [TS]

01:01:32   there was a brain leach at the end that [TS]

01:01:34   was why not and there's a rocket that's [TS]

01:01:37   going to take the leech the red dye [TS]

01:01:40   thing and covered the planet and read [TS]

01:01:43   why not why not why not indeed because [TS]

01:01:46   of the doctor he stopped because he [TS]

01:01:47   stops at all that's true that's true i [TS]

01:01:51   like i like that of course uh at the end [TS]

01:01:54   of this episode there's also the very [TS]

01:01:55   strange scene where they go they go home [TS]

01:01:57   and the kids that Clara is watching say [TS]

01:02:00   hey there's pictures of you in the past [TS]

01:02:01   but we have well bad bad pacing in that [TS]

01:02:05   part but again clearly something that [TS]

01:02:07   was tacked on to lead into the next yeah [TS]

01:02:09   my understanding is that there was a [TS]

01:02:11   scene about that maybe [TS]

01:02:12   Camille games episode and it was too [TS]

01:02:15   long so they moved it and inserted [TS]

01:02:17   something there but anyway Crimson [TS]

01:02:20   horror and Markakis as a lifelong fan of [TS]

01:02:24   Doctor Who and somebody who's written [TS]

01:02:25   from the very first season he wrote the [TS]

01:02:27   charles dickens episode the unquiet dead [TS]

01:02:30   for for the Christopher Eccleston's [TS]

01:02:32   season when he gets a lot of crap from [TS]

01:02:35   Doctor Who fans who generally I think a [TS]

01:02:38   lot of them don't like his work [TS]

01:02:40   I think he's hit and miss but this I [TS]

01:02:44   thought was a hit and I also like the [TS]

01:02:46   unquiet dead so you know and I thought [TS]

01:02:49   Cold War was ok but this was I thought [TS]

01:02:51   his his winner from this season I just [TS]

01:02:53   thought it was a lot of fun [TS]

01:02:54   yeah Jason I like your idea of Neil [TS]

01:02:57   cross being the next show runner but i [TS]

01:02:58   think the odds-on favourites clearly [TS]

01:03:00   canis clearly let's talk about nightmare [TS]

01:03:04   in silver which is a neil gaiman episode [TS]

01:03:07   now course neil gaiman comic book author [TS]

01:03:09   novelist generally a beloved writer Matt [TS]

01:03:14   town he is a raconteur yes absolutely [TS]

01:03:16   and I love people love him and people [TS]

01:03:20   loved the doctor's wife which is an [TS]

01:03:21   episode that he wrote for 4 last season [TS]

01:03:24   huh [TS]

01:03:27   Scott didn't like it some i liked it i [TS]

01:03:29   don't think it was the best episode of [TS]

01:03:31   that season but which a lot of people do [TS]

01:03:33   but i liked it and and it turns out [TS]

01:03:35   nightmare in silver seems to be an [TS]

01:03:37   episode that is a quite polarizing I [TS]

01:03:41   liked it [TS]

01:03:42   I'll just say that I don't get the [TS]

01:03:44   Cybermen i'll just say that well the [TS]

01:03:46   Cybermen nobody likes the cyber haven't [TS]

01:03:48   we already Cybermen fans out there [TS]

01:03:50   somewhere [TS]

01:03:51   haha i like maybe as your head if you [TS]

01:03:54   like this I like I can't it's a podcast [TS]

01:03:56   you can see the hand i still can i still [TS]

01:03:58   can't entirely distinguish them from [TS]

01:04:00   Daleks at best they're charmingly [TS]

01:04:02   incompetent I don't think they're [TS]

01:04:03   charming at I so here's the thing this [TS]

01:04:06   this episode was not great but I thought [TS]

01:04:09   it was fine i thought it was actually [TS]

01:04:11   kind of a your average fine doctor who [TS]

01:04:14   episode in that there are some things to [TS]

01:04:16   like it's not ever going to be on my [TS]

01:04:18   all-time best list [TS]

01:04:20   i like the little cyber mites the like [TS]

01:04:22   little quirky / calling silver cyber [TS]

01:04:24   things i like war [TS]

01:04:26   Warwick Davis in this is great I thought [TS]

01:04:30   he was fantastic brian is trying to be [TS]

01:04:33   accounted little Dinklage there the [TS]

01:04:34   put-upon royal short person [TS]

01:04:37   yeah i actually was thinking I was [TS]

01:04:39   thinking player cards right war with you [TS]

01:04:41   too can end the game of thrones i don't [TS]

01:04:43   know i mean is there anybody in I see [TS]

01:04:46   more Davis and a lot of things over the [TS]

01:04:47   years is there anything that he's really [TS]

01:04:48   terrible in like the most part he's [TS]

01:04:50   pretty solid he was given a good party [TS]

01:04:52   like the party was good this is a clear [TS]

01:04:53   our little right saw him like underneath [TS]

01:04:55   the little chest thing on my god they're [TS]

01:04:57   not doing this but I was satisfied with [TS]

01:04:58   his eventual rolling the proceedings [TS]

01:05:01   yeah i mean though it be he starts as [TS]

01:05:03   the you know guy i've heard that under [TS]

01:05:06   the chessboard you think and you are [TS]

01:05:08   supposed to think I boy and over the [TS]

01:05:10   course of time you know it it's revealed [TS]

01:05:13   he actually is which I don't know did it [TS]

01:05:15   was anybody surprised when that was [TS]

01:05:17   revealed because i know is i don't [TS]

01:05:18   really but like I like they gave it [TS]

01:05:21   actually gave him lying a few things to [TS]

01:05:23   say that he I think he has a certain [TS]

01:05:25   gravitas now that he didn't have his [TS]

01:05:28   like your green wicked or whatever and [TS]

01:05:29   you're willow yeah well I really liked [TS]

01:05:33   him and I'll defend below and his part [TS]

01:05:35   of it [TS]

01:05:35   sure but Dad gravitas was not like i [TS]

01:05:38   said i got a 29 well i think yeah [TS]

01:05:40   exactly i thought they weren't shooting [TS]

01:05:42   your grabbed us nobody here he's a he's [TS]

01:05:44   a believable you know emperor who's kind [TS]

01:05:47   of leg dip and doesn't want to be the [TS]

01:05:49   Emperor for a while right use cartridges [TS]

01:05:51   an old story and all that yeah I like [TS]

01:05:53   that I i like that i have a Cyberman you [TS]

01:05:56   know there are things about the Cybermen [TS]

01:05:58   in this episode that i liked i don't [TS]

01:05:59   think that I would actually say they [TS]

01:06:01   were scary i felt like they were worried [TS]

01:06:03   they were no they're never scary i like [TS]

01:06:05   them better than the old kind of cranky [TS]

01:06:07   marchi Cyberman here's the problem we [TS]

01:06:10   have several right because everyone's [TS]

01:06:11   like oh my god [TS]

01:06:12   Cybermen we destroy the entire galaxies [TS]

01:06:14   because of the Cybermen we can't beat [TS]

01:06:16   the Cybermen if you jog away from the [TS]

01:06:19   Cybermen can catch up to you unless he's [TS]

01:06:21   that one social advances the beginning [TS]

01:06:22   that was really cool because he was fast [TS]

01:06:24   and I thought oh my god the Cyberman now [TS]

01:06:26   are actually a threat but then no other [TS]

01:06:28   Cyberman does that example [TS]

01:06:31   they're metal zombies they're very ugly [TS]

01:06:32   pay our time it's just the one really [TS]

01:06:34   fast one how come the why don't [TS]

01:06:35   understand whenever my wife was like [TS]

01:06:38   well maybe the other ones didn't upgrade [TS]

01:06:39   to that yeah why wouldn't they when they [TS]

01:06:41   saw that it worked all the other ones [TS]

01:06:44   could upgrade instead of having to like [TS]

01:06:45   take off their head to lure someone just [TS]

01:06:48   go really fast and kill everyone sorry [TS]

01:06:49   cyborg shouldn't they not be able to [TS]

01:06:52   attach their heads because they are [TS]

01:06:53   presumably is like a skull and [TS]

01:06:54   instructors Wi-Fi it so it's in the [TS]

01:06:57   Wi-Fi Bluetooth actually its close [TS]

01:06:59   proximity to get ahead can't be too far [TS]

01:07:00   away other thing that's great about this [TS]

01:07:02   is uh I thought that Smith did a great [TS]

01:07:05   job in this in the scenes where he gets [TS]

01:07:06   attached with anything again how do you [TS]

01:07:08   make the Cybermen interesting is you [TS]

01:07:10   have this whole other thing that's not a [TS]

01:07:12   Cyberman but it's the syfy programmer [TS]

01:07:13   that's attached to his face and you got [TS]

01:07:16   one side of his face and you get all [TS]

01:07:17   those shots where we're willing he's [TS]

01:07:19   talking to himself or or we actually see [TS]

01:07:21   him sort of the inside his mind talking [TS]

01:07:23   and I liked all of that I thought that [TS]

01:07:24   was I thought that was actually really [TS]

01:07:25   good stuff and actually showed to that [TS]

01:07:27   matt smith is actually a pretty good [TS]

01:07:29   actor and that he isn't just the doctor [TS]

01:07:31   in real life and that's the only kind of [TS]

01:07:33   party can play he he does some really [TS]

01:07:35   nice things as the cyber planner and as [TS]

01:07:38   about the end as the cyber planner mr. [TS]

01:07:40   clever posing as the doctor but not [TS]

01:07:42   actually the doctor I I thought that was [TS]

01:07:45   all really good stuff but I could have [TS]

01:07:46   done more with his a like when Clara [TS]

01:07:48   trying to tell whether it's him or not [TS]

01:07:50   but I'm desperate for some kind of real [TS]

01:07:52   interaction between the two of them so [TS]

01:07:53   they got like one or two little [TS]

01:07:54   exchanges but not much but I and I also [TS]

01:07:57   wish there was a slightly more clever [TS]

01:07:59   resolution to the chest thing but you [TS]

01:08:01   know what it was fine but I I overall I [TS]

01:08:03   liked that the all the things they tried [TS]

01:08:06   to do in the episode you know the [TS]

01:08:08   premise that you dispense with pretty [TS]

01:08:09   quickly once he became the two people [TS]

01:08:11   think I like that idea [TS]

01:08:12   I like the chess game and sort of the [TS]

01:08:14   internal battle vs the external one that [TS]

01:08:16   I guess I didn't like the Cyberman but [TS]

01:08:17   whatever they march around they get [TS]

01:08:19   zapped blah blah blah i like the [TS]

01:08:20   randomness of being in the in the castle [TS]

01:08:22   at the amusement park although i've had [TS]

01:08:24   a pointed out to me by a few people that [TS]

01:08:25   it's introduced as being kind of like a [TS]

01:08:27   wacky castle and there's nothing wacky [TS]

01:08:30   in it it's just a castle they got to go [TS]

01:08:33   work with what they have in England it [TS]

01:08:35   has the double-blind they call the wacky [TS]

01:08:38   castles you go into it it's not went out [TS]

01:08:40   and that's why it's wack not wacky this [TS]

01:08:42   is the one episode [TS]

01:08:44   that I did wish got expanded into a [TS]

01:08:46   two-parter if you i'm a big game and [TS]

01:08:50   fanboy but i thought there were problems [TS]

01:08:53   in the script here that needed to their [TS]

01:08:56   stuff that just happened too fast to the [TS]

01:08:58   Sun walking if you go to game its blog [TS]

01:09:01   and all this other stuff up [TS]

01:09:02   he was actually fairly Frank talking [TS]

01:09:04   about scenes that got cut up all over [TS]

01:09:07   the place there was actually an [TS]

01:09:08   explanation of why the kids were put to [TS]

01:09:11   bed in the room in harm's way instead of [TS]

01:09:14   inside the TARDIS and things like that [TS]

01:09:15   you know I i thought that this episode [TS]

01:09:18   could have been expanded into a [TS]

01:09:19   two-parter and I'm held up pretty well [TS]

01:09:22   well I would have been happy to see more [TS]

01:09:23   work Davison and you're right the that's [TS]

01:09:26   a bad nannying right as it as it is on [TS]

01:09:29   screen you'll be fine it's just let's go [TS]

01:09:31   to bed here in this scary alien planet [TS]

01:09:33   the TARDIS isn't big enough for them [TS]

01:09:36   yeah well there's a whole song is on [TS]

01:09:37   this number how they can't go back there [TS]

01:09:39   but well if they really think they're [TS]

01:09:40   afraid of bunk beds [TS]

01:09:42   well you know do you see what happens [TS]

01:09:43   when you let people wander around the [TS]

01:09:44   TARDIS they could turn into a time [TS]

01:09:46   zombie that's no good [TS]

01:09:47   true mmm the doctor could just shanghai [TS]

01:09:49   somebody yeah i really like the end to [TS]

01:09:52   where I porridge the emperor emperor [TS]

01:09:55   great emperor portage proposes to Clara [TS]

01:09:58   I thought that was funny and it's like [TS]

01:10:00   you could be the queen of the universe [TS]

01:10:01   in there but if it but she tells the [TS]

01:10:04   doctor to shut up right that's like this [TS]

01:10:06   but that's just what uh was an aria said [TS]

01:10:08   what if I never want to be queen of you [TS]

01:10:09   stop crossing over the things and it's [TS]

01:10:13   all one big one big show when the TARDIS [TS]

01:10:17   lands in Westeros then we'll wait no [TS]

01:10:19   that's very confusing i guarantee you [TS]

01:10:21   that fan fiction has been written i'm [TS]

01:10:22   sure you would watch that episode to [TS]

01:10:24   admit my other problem with this which I [TS]

01:10:27   thought was fine overall I mean find [TS]

01:10:29   someone I think it's stupid but that's [TS]

01:10:31   not really his fault is that so [TS]

01:10:35   portage have the ability to activate [TS]

01:10:38   this bomb right and then you can [TS]

01:10:41   everyone immediately teleport away so [TS]

01:10:42   why didn't he do that sooner and I was [TS]

01:10:44   like oh I don't want to blow up another [TS]

01:10:46   one and he didn't want below is blow his [TS]

01:10:47   cover [TS]

01:10:48   he was trying to get away from the [TS]

01:10:50   wildlife it it doesn't make any sense [TS]

01:10:51   they are being threatened by the most [TS]

01:10:54   thousands have been scary [TS]

01:10:57   threats that humanity and look at it was [TS]

01:10:59   just like Ron of them in the beginning [TS]

01:11:00   and this is my only walking side and he [TS]

01:11:04   doesn't think maybe I should just you [TS]

01:11:07   know use my intercontinental missile [TS]

01:11:10   here and get picked up by my flagship [TS]

01:11:12   that can only teleport me across the [TS]

01:11:14   universe away from this thing does it [TS]

01:11:17   eventually he will just wait till the [TS]

01:11:18   last possible minute that's all [TS]

01:11:20   of course understand who's gonna ride a [TS]

01:11:21   chess game yeah it wouldn't be an [TS]

01:11:24   episode otherwise alright let's move on [TS]

01:11:25   to the last episode of the season which [TS]

01:11:26   aired very recently the name of the [TS]

01:11:28   doctor [TS]

01:11:30   I where there is the most bizarre [TS]

01:11:33   conference call in history that's the [TS]

01:11:35   sleep conference call across time and [TS]

01:11:38   then the there are these scary guys [TS]

01:11:42   called the whisper men who kidnapped [TS]

01:11:43   everybody and take them to trenzalore [TS]

01:11:44   where the doctor is supposed to never go [TS]

01:11:47   because that's where he is buried that [TS]

01:11:50   is his tomb which actually is a call [TS]

01:11:51   back to an earlier episode work in hide [TS]

01:11:54   where Claire asks if her grave is out [TS]

01:11:56   there somewhere when they reach the end [TS]

01:11:57   of the earth and he says yes all of our [TS]

01:11:59   grades are out there somewhere and and [TS]

01:12:01   here it is and we we get to see river [TS]

01:12:04   song we discovered the mystery of of [TS]

01:12:09   Clara and how she came to be the [TS]

01:12:10   impossible girl we find the final plan [TS]

01:12:14   I guess of the great intelligence which [TS]

01:12:16   is to get that doctor once and for all [TS]

01:12:18   yeah haha him is his name is our cat [TS]

01:12:20   like infinitely and all in for all yeah [TS]

01:12:23   and and also this serves as the selling [TS]

01:12:26   this John earlier today this also serves [TS]

01:12:27   as in some ways the this is the official [TS]

01:12:30   50th anniversary fanservice episode [TS]

01:12:32   where it's like we're going to show you [TS]

01:12:33   all the classic Doctor Who actors or [TS]

01:12:36   costumes or whatever in this episode [TS]

01:12:38   make presumably so that they don't have [TS]

01:12:40   to do that in the actual 50th [TS]

01:12:42   anniversary episode that's coming in [TS]

01:12:43   november i would i would not presume [TS]

01:12:45   that at all [TS]

01:12:46   well as make sure the same three Clips [TS]

01:12:48   like 17 times the total presumably they [TS]

01:12:50   have a deeper library like aren't just [TS]

01:12:51   for this show just keeps on the same [TS]

01:12:53   three clips but for with 50 and not on [TS]

01:12:55   the BBC's budget the rest of the library [TS]

01:12:57   has been lost yeah it's been deleted [TS]

01:12:59   probably how YouTube some our tape they [TS]

01:13:01   taped it over so a Benny Hill yes of [TS]

01:13:05   this is the hill this episode is we [TS]

01:13:08   learned that Clara special because she [TS]

01:13:10   throws herself [TS]

01:13:11   into the doctors timestream basically [TS]

01:13:14   because the great intelligence has used [TS]

01:13:16   it to go back in time and sort of wrong [TS]

01:13:20   everyone's rights and and do bad things [TS]

01:13:25   to everything that the doctor is done [TS]

01:13:27   that was good and so she's there she [TS]

01:13:29   jumps in to counteract him i'm [TS]

01:13:34   interested what you guys thought of this [TS]

01:13:35   i might might take on it is that it was [TS]

01:13:37   again this is I know this may sound like [TS]

01:13:40   a broken record here but kind of a mass [TS]

01:13:42   kind of a lot going on i thought there [TS]

01:13:44   were some really interesting parts uh [TS]

01:13:47   but it felt in some ways like Steven [TS]

01:13:50   Moffat sort of knew what he wanted to do [TS]

01:13:52   and then constructed an episode around [TS]

01:13:56   where he wanted to go which is not the [TS]

01:13:58   same thing as telling I think as telling [TS]

01:14:00   a good story it's more like just uh you [TS]

01:14:03   know workmanlike reaching a destination [TS]

01:14:05   in it you know throwing in the things to [TS]

01:14:09   to get there so he's he's dazed ticking [TS]

01:14:11   the boxes [TS]

01:14:12   yeah like that's it's uneven as it [TS]

01:14:14   doesn't feel natural to do what it feels [TS]

01:14:15   like kind of a mess that just inevitably [TS]

01:14:17   leads to thinking needed to get only he [TS]

01:14:19   had done even that over the course of [TS]

01:14:21   this entire season like I don't think [TS]

01:14:23   even take the boxes because if this is [TS]

01:14:25   where he was trying to go like that are [TS]

01:14:28   so this is acquires eventual architect [TS]

01:14:29   where I have an explanation of how she's [TS]

01:14:31   impossible girls going to lead to that [TS]

01:14:32   last episode where you're going to [TS]

01:14:33   understand why like is that it is like [TS]

01:14:36   two points and nothing in between [TS]

01:14:37   there's no real arc and so I by the time [TS]

01:14:40   you get this last episode I'm perfectly [TS]

01:14:42   fine with the explanation of how does [TS]

01:14:43   she is impossible girl but you you [TS]

01:14:44   didn't correctly spend your season to [TS]

01:14:47   make me care about that you didn't earn [TS]

01:14:49   it you didn't show your work and i'll go [TS]

01:14:52   further I would actually say this would [TS]

01:14:53   have been a great episode with a couple [TS]

01:14:57   of things being different one is if this [TS]

01:15:00   was a companion who we've seen for [TS]

01:15:02   longer [TS]

01:15:03   yeah so that the jeopardy of the [TS]

01:15:04   sacrifice would have been greater and [TS]

01:15:06   ideally this would be their sacrifice [TS]

01:15:09   they wouldn't come back we could see [TS]

01:15:12   them again but it was always the echoes [TS]

01:15:14   of the original that would be really sad [TS]

01:15:16   but also not quite as brutal as a real [TS]

01:15:19   death but certainly even if they didn't [TS]

01:15:22   die permanently if it was somebody [TS]

01:15:24   really been invested in somebody like [TS]

01:15:25   like like rose or like what happens to [TS]

01:15:28   to Donna was only here for one season 2 [TS]

01:15:30   and that like bring one of the players [TS]

01:15:32   and a half but it was thirteen episodes [TS]

01:15:34   right layer 7 8 episode everything a [TS]

01:15:36   half really makes it hard to get into I [TS]

01:15:38   mean you know even with Amy you know we [TS]

01:15:40   had what to do next [TS]

01:15:42   yeah yeah that's a long to write and I [TS]

01:15:44   mean that would have heard a lot more if [TS]

01:15:46   that had been named i would much rather [TS]

01:15:47   have this be a me write that then this [TS]

01:15:49   and then the other thing I would say is [TS]

01:15:51   the great intelligence of the other [TS]

01:15:52   problem here which is that's a villain [TS]

01:15:54   that we've only had for half a season [TS]

01:15:55   and again if this was and this is sort [TS]

01:15:58   of what the episode was trying to go for [TS]

01:15:59   you get the sense that the great [TS]

01:16:01   intelligence is like been wading through [TS]

01:16:03   all time and space to get to this point [TS]

01:16:04   because he fancies himself the doctor's [TS]

01:16:06   greatest enemy and if this dog is like [TS]

01:16:09   who [TS]

01:16:10   yeah if this had been an enemy you're [TS]

01:16:11   you're in one episode of snowmen if this [TS]

01:16:14   has been the master or or somebody else [TS]

01:16:16   who is sort of like this long history [TS]

01:16:18   and we've seen them over years even if [TS]

01:16:20   it was just a couple years but is [TS]

01:16:21   preferably a long time and this is sort [TS]

01:16:23   of like their final gambit which is I'm [TS]

01:16:25   going to kill myself but I get to erase [TS]

01:16:29   everything good you've ever done that [TS]

01:16:31   would have also had a huge impact but [TS]

01:16:33   neither of these stories has the same [TS]

01:16:34   impact because we've only really been [TS]

01:16:37   following them for eight episodes and [TS]

01:16:38   only spot even then even if you would [TS]

01:16:40   have the great intelligence going like [TS]

01:16:42   that to screw everything up and then not [TS]

01:16:44   resolved it right now like but the [TS]

01:16:47   problem is the entire episode to me I i [TS]

01:16:50   turn to the person i was watching with [TS]

01:16:51   afterwards and said this is just me or [TS]

01:16:54   was that entire episode lead-up to like [TS]

01:16:55   the last 30 seconds like it felt to me [TS]

01:16:58   very much like all right we're done with [TS]

01:17:00   this thing we're moving on to some other [TS]

01:17:01   big mystery [TS]

01:17:02   like if you had set up the idea like [TS]

01:17:04   okay great intelligence is now gone back [TS]

01:17:06   and screwed with everything the doctors [TS]

01:17:08   ever done what spend a season exploring [TS]

01:17:10   like what the impact of that might be [TS]

01:17:13   but doesn't the impact of this is 30 [TS]

01:17:14   seconds long because in Claire's like [TS]

01:17:16   all right I'll fix it like all right [TS]

01:17:17   well that was pointless the stars go out [TS]

01:17:19   she goes back in they come back on yet [TS]

01:17:20   or they could they didn't even show the [TS]

01:17:23   great intelligence doing anything into [TS]

01:17:25   the other time streams right he was just [TS]

01:17:26   in there we assume the doctors [TS]

01:17:28   convulsing on the floor so we soon bad [TS]

01:17:30   things are happening they don't show and [TS]

01:17:32   they don't even really show they show [TS]

01:17:33   Clara talking to the other doctors but [TS]

01:17:35   she's not really doing [TS]

01:17:37   anything to report anything seemingly [TS]

01:17:40   she's just like oh hey look there's the [TS]

01:17:42   doctor fire driving passing that stupid [TS]

01:17:44   car he had to do and that's enough and [TS]

01:17:46   it's just hard and I think that so the [TS]

01:17:50   reason I don't like Clara is that I [TS]

01:17:53   really so Donna was my favorite [TS]

01:17:54   companion and I feel like the difference [TS]

01:17:55   between Donna and Clara is that Donna [TS]

01:17:57   was a character Claire's a plot device [TS]

01:17:59   that was meant to lead up to this [TS]

01:18:01   episode and i thought at the end of this [TS]

01:18:04   episode I was hoping that Clara would be [TS]

01:18:07   dead because that would make it at least [TS]

01:18:08   a little more interesting and that she [TS]

01:18:10   wouldn't come back doesn't like her but [TS]

01:18:12   the I thought it would make more sense [TS]

01:18:14   but then I got you now she's fine and [TS]

01:18:16   will you know do stuff [TS]

01:18:17   alright i'm just kind of keeping the [TS]

01:18:19   whole it didn't it didn't there was no [TS]

01:18:21   peril there right because it was all [TS]

01:18:23   lickety-split done you can take heart of [TS]

01:18:25   the real clarity is actually dead and [TS]

01:18:26   only hurt goes no no because the doctor [TS]

01:18:30   goes and pulls her back out [TS]

01:18:32   sorry yeah I thought he goes back in he [TS]

01:18:37   get the grabs your hand you got the guy [TS]

01:18:38   you know you got John Hart there was on [TS]

01:18:40   her and everything right and they go off [TS]

01:18:42   camera but is she gonna be just back [TS]

01:18:45   full-fledged exactly as she was no [TS]

01:18:47   consequences [TS]

01:18:48   I soon so not keeping up with the news [TS]

01:18:50   so she's this she's gonna be back in the [TS]

01:18:52   actresses in the Christmas been the [TS]

01:18:55   November 23rd special and I don't think [TS]

01:18:58   that and I think it's been announced [TS]

01:19:00   that she's going to be in serious am [TS]

01:19:02   sorry that she keeps on keepin on keepin [TS]

01:19:04   on via real quick I just to put on my [TS]

01:19:08   doctor who nerd hat again the the great [TS]

01:19:11   intelligence hasn't bit has been around [TS]

01:19:13   for a bit longer than half a CC well he [TS]

01:19:15   has but we haven't seen him since before [TS]

01:19:17   I was born so I think that even though [TS]

01:19:19   he's right he did have his robotic Yeti [TS]

01:19:21   in the underground during Patrick [TS]

01:19:24   Troughton Zarah it's not as if this is [TS]

01:19:27   somebody who it we felt like finally at [TS]

01:19:30   last I'm going to sacrifice a great he's [TS]

01:19:32   it's been off it was revived eight [TS]

01:19:34   episodes for those who only watch the [TS]

01:19:35   reboot then there that has no meaning [TS]

01:19:38   other than what we wikipedia right yeah [TS]

01:19:40   right and I actually going to measure [TS]

01:19:42   going going somewhere with that because [TS]

01:19:43   this this episode was pretty much [TS]

01:19:48   universally adored by [TS]

01:19:50   the classic who fans and the people who [TS]

01:19:52   hang out on the Doctor Who shirts and [TS]

01:19:54   things like that you it works as an [TS]

01:19:56   homage to old doctor who with lots of [TS]

01:19:58   references and I I yeah yeah and and [TS]

01:20:00   that and that's what that's what it has [TS]

01:20:02   going for it [TS]

01:20:04   it's a mess though and as much as like [TS]

01:20:06   as much as I want to like it because I [TS]

01:20:09   you know I i have the fan [TS]

01:20:11   gene I like having it as a friend of [TS]

01:20:14   mine says another podcast I'm happy to [TS]

01:20:17   have my fan gene service to but but but [TS]

01:20:22   Steven Moffat is totally into a throwing [TS]

01:20:27   out lots and lots of ideas and [TS]

01:20:29   explaining the ideas that he feels he [TS]

01:20:32   needs to and just and dismissing [TS]

01:20:36   dispensing with explanations for the [TS]

01:20:38   ideas he doesn't have to eat hehe [TS]

01:20:40   explanations are not necessary as long [TS]

01:20:43   as they get him where he wants to go and [TS]

01:20:45   there's so much of that happening in [TS]

01:20:47   this episode that it's it it's just [TS]

01:20:51   plain hard to follow [TS]

01:20:52   yeah I didn't even understand [TS]

01:20:54   necessarily the resolution of the doctor [TS]

01:20:56   going inside his own time line I really [TS]

01:20:59   thought that was going to cause a little [TS]

01:21:00   bit more of a paradox than hey i'm in [TS]

01:21:02   some creepy cave place I mean like that [TS]

01:21:06   should be a real problem right like [TS]

01:21:07   going into tonight you don't mind me how [TS]

01:21:10   I don't even understand it doesn't even [TS]

01:21:11   make any sense again and this is kind of [TS]

01:21:13   going back to John's point about at [TS]

01:21:15   least be consistent in your own you know [TS]

01:21:17   ridiculous stuff like to me that didn't [TS]

01:21:19   really make any sense i mean i can [TS]

01:21:21   easily adjust that they had just [TS]

01:21:22   explained before he went and had this [TS]

01:21:24   whole the expedition we think that women [TS]

01:21:25   characters talk with your device [TS]

01:21:27   yeah I did they all talk to each other [TS]

01:21:29   to explain to the audience what the [TS]

01:21:31   what's at stake with this thing and then [TS]

01:21:32   immediately support everything that they [TS]

01:21:34   said yeah I was really sad to see I feel [TS]

01:21:37   like they squandered the whisper men [TS]

01:21:38   which was yet another great production [TS]

01:21:41   value on those villains who again yeah [TS]

01:21:44   crappy and they were creepy but they [TS]

01:21:45   were there for five minutes and like [TS]

01:21:47   nobody cares it's like it had funny hats [TS]

01:21:49   the topic i like their little luck would [TS]

01:21:52   be Rhymes I hated the rhymes the other [TS]

01:21:54   rhymes Steven Moffat got a thing for [TS]

01:21:56   nursery rhymes and and all that night [TS]

01:21:58   yeah I didn't there they reminded me of [TS]

01:22:00   a cross between this the silence and the [TS]

01:22:03   gentleman [TS]

01:22:04   the paw wash my face yeah yeah and we [TS]

01:22:07   just those both of those things I [TS]

01:22:08   thought were very scary and they [TS]

01:22:09   combined into something also scary i [TS]

01:22:11   like the silence a lot better than these [TS]

01:22:13   guys [TS]

01:22:14   well I it could have been the silence it [TS]

01:22:16   would have mattered right like they were [TS]

01:22:18   they were not point there's no point [TS]

01:22:19   yeah these guys could have been [TS]

01:22:20   something but they're just the lackeys [TS]

01:22:23   of the great intelligence that sort of [TS]

01:22:25   all days while they are the not-so-great [TS]

01:22:26   intelligences I wanted to say i am I [TS]

01:22:29   think chip is spot-on that that and [TS]

01:22:30   expect what I said earlier to that its [TS]

01:22:32   mother wants to do what he wants to do [TS]

01:22:34   and if the if the boxes are all [TS]

01:22:36   connected then he kind of doesn't care [TS]

01:22:38   and i think yeah you can explain it all [TS]

01:22:39   away and I i am tired of people poking [TS]

01:22:42   holes in fantasy stories be saying well [TS]

01:22:45   what about this because you could [TS]

01:22:47   explain away a lot of things but it does [TS]

01:22:49   feel like you you want to kind of have a [TS]

01:22:51   natural progression and it was really [TS]

01:22:54   kind of jerky like you know okay I guess [TS]

01:22:56   this is happening now but i don't really [TS]

01:22:57   understand why there's a lot of cool [TS]

01:22:59   stuff in here again I'm not saying you [TS]

01:23:01   know I'm not saying that there wasn't [TS]

01:23:03   I'm saying that it didn't connect like [TS]

01:23:05   there's a lot of cool stuff the TARDIS [TS]

01:23:06   being big and being his tomb and being [TS]

01:23:08   overgrown that was my favorite my [TS]

01:23:10   favorite part of the whole episode was [TS]

01:23:11   like the fields of trenzalore I think he [TS]

01:23:13   was just he's this season maybe yeah [TS]

01:23:15   yeah last episode of season right yeah I [TS]

01:23:18   I that was to use for an appropriate [TS]

01:23:20   amount of time I thought it was cool [TS]

01:23:21   seeing the big targets being the grave [TS]

01:23:23   and that the idea that translator was [TS]

01:23:26   great all that gives a big thumbs up it [TS]

01:23:28   was like and I'm are also i also like [TS]

01:23:30   the idea of the impossible girl the [TS]

01:23:31   explanation of how she becomes what she [TS]

01:23:33   is [TS]

01:23:34   it's just that once again this episode [TS]

01:23:36   lots of other stuff in it and the river [TS]

01:23:37   song stuff as much as I liked it because [TS]

01:23:39   I like those [TS]

01:23:40   yeah who doesn't love every song right [TS]

01:23:42   it was kind of like hey remember we had [TS]

01:23:44   a good episode of this lady remember [TS]

01:23:46   that while they and even on do the [TS]

01:23:48   things that are good like I mean I I [TS]

01:23:50   thought again effectively sad was the [TS]

01:23:53   the murder of jenny and then they [TS]

01:23:55   completely in right [TS]

01:23:57   wipe that out that was great that was [TS]

01:23:59   such a great scene where she's like [TS]

01:24:00   converter had been murdered I'm sorry [TS]

01:24:02   about what I mean like that gave me [TS]

01:24:03   chills but they're killing me and I'm [TS]

01:24:06   dead [TS]

01:24:08   yeah that's why you still kicking me [TS]

01:24:10   like that well I I'm saying I really [TS]

01:24:13   right yeah but the problem is that the [TS]

01:24:15   punchy at right and then because [TS]

01:24:17   everybody likes her to market everybody [TS]

01:24:19   and so that bum me out [TS]

01:24:21   I mean not that I didn't like her but [TS]

01:24:23   River Song this is the first time we've [TS]

01:24:25   seen her after she was saved to the [TS]

01:24:27   library and her first appearance after [TS]

01:24:29   she died in one stage of the library and [TS]

01:24:31   I thought this was the best thing in [TS]

01:24:32   this episode because it was handled [TS]

01:24:34   properly [TS]

01:24:35   it wasn't cute it was in fact you could [TS]

01:24:38   argue the most genuine relationship [TS]

01:24:41   between river and the doctor sense [TS]

01:24:43   silence in the library where he didn't [TS]

01:24:45   know who she was the kiss that they [TS]

01:24:47   share is the maybe the only time that it [TS]

01:24:50   felt non-ironic in any way that it [TS]

01:24:53   actually had meaning and it and even [TS]

01:24:55   though we may see her again i'm pretty [TS]

01:24:58   sure this is the end of her existence [TS]

01:25:00   he's in in her timeline and I thought it [TS]

01:25:03   was a fitting goodbye that she's from [TS]

01:25:06   the library she still got a little bit [TS]

01:25:08   more information to give to the doctor [TS]

01:25:09   and then they say goodbye and she says [TS]

01:25:12   say it like we're going to see each [TS]

01:25:13   other again instead of saying goodbye i [TS]

01:25:16   thought that was great [TS]

01:25:17   I you know it there's lots of other [TS]

01:25:19   problems with this episode but I felt [TS]

01:25:20   like that was handled perfectly [TS]

01:25:24   there's one other huge thing about this [TS]

01:25:26   episode that I want to mention and it in [TS]

01:25:28   it saves the episode for me and it's it [TS]

01:25:32   actually subverts the idea of who the [TS]

01:25:34   doctor is and right reintroduces some [TS]

01:25:38   mystery to the doctor and that's [TS]

01:25:39   actually kind of huge this the sort of [TS]

01:25:43   contradictory a caption at the end you [TS]

01:25:46   know we've just been told that John [TS]

01:25:47   Hurt's not the doctor and introducing [TS]

01:25:48   John Hurt askah fate BBC options and [TS]

01:25:55   everything it was a little weird to have [TS]

01:25:56   that on screen that feel weird anyone [TS]

01:25:59   like me turn around like it's john hurt [TS]

01:26:01   you know when trying to explain to [TS]

01:26:03   people because the doctor looks [TS]

01:26:04   different [TS]

01:26:05   you can show a guy and they're like [TS]

01:26:06   who's that guy I mean as it is I thought [TS]

01:26:08   it was fairly clear what they're saying [TS]

01:26:09   here which is essentially this is this [TS]

01:26:12   is a past doctor who did something so [TS]

01:26:13   bad that he can't even be known as the [TS]

01:26:15   doctor and how audacious is that to do [TS]

01:26:18   that but but people people don't get it [TS]

01:26:20   so the BBC and the producer said we'll [TS]

01:26:23   just put it on the screen and I was [TS]

01:26:24   with a big don't hear arrow but ship [TS]

01:26:27   you're right ship you're absolutely [TS]

01:26:29   right [TS]

01:26:29   what a wild I mean I love that it's [TS]

01:26:31   really more about what happens in the [TS]

01:26:33   next episode presumably but i do love [TS]

01:26:35   that with that stroke Moffat has has [TS]

01:26:37   called into question all sorts of [TS]

01:26:39   assumptions we make about the character [TS]

01:26:41   of the doctor this is the real [TS]

01:26:43   unbelievable thing that we're learning [TS]

01:26:45   that the name of the doctor which would [TS]

01:26:47   be boring because it would be something [TS]

01:26:48   boring or we're Johnny it's the fact [TS]

01:26:51   that we may not even know all the [TS]

01:26:53   doctors because we because here's John [TS]

01:26:55   hurt and he's the doctor and he's been [TS]

01:26:57   disowned by matt smith is like I don't [TS]

01:26:59   even he didn't even you live up to the [TS]

01:27:02   name which is like wow that's why you [TS]

01:27:04   can't buy five like the basics when [TS]

01:27:05   you're doing line numbers you want to [TS]

01:27:07   leave room between the doctor never know [TS]

01:27:09   what answer [TS]

01:27:11   also I i presume the very fact that they [TS]

01:27:13   mentioned the valley hard [TS]

01:27:15   enduring in conversation was to dispel [TS]

01:27:17   anybody from thinking that hurdle is the [TS]

01:27:19   value word [TS]

01:27:20   yeah but my only other theory was that [TS]

01:27:22   it seems like in general the doctors get [TS]

01:27:24   younger and younger right like William [TS]

01:27:25   Hartnell was really old and they've [TS]

01:27:27   they've tended to get young ended sure [TS]

01:27:29   as we go along [TS]

01:27:31   I mean for the most part right i mean [TS]

01:27:32   like davison was was younger and then [TS]

01:27:34   they went older old people are ugly [TS]

01:27:36   that's why they keep coming and so I was [TS]

01:27:37   wondering if this is the is this is the [TS]

01:27:39   very first incarnation of the doctor [TS]

01:27:41   pre-wet William Hartnell was my my other [TS]

01:27:44   theory that's the other theory but i [TS]

01:27:45   think that this is the one who did the [TS]

01:27:47   time war and killed all everybody in the [TS]

01:27:49   time were and that I you know what [TS]

01:27:51   that's pretty cool although it screws up [TS]

01:27:52   everybody's number in god damn it will [TS]

01:27:54   know because he's not the doctor right I [TS]

01:27:56   know except he says but that is my great [TS]

01:27:58   honor it is the doctors dr. ish look [TS]

01:28:00   there's nothing doctor with I'm sure [TS]

01:28:02   there's nothing that makes even off and [TS]

01:28:03   happier than what is happening right now [TS]

01:28:05   which is all these people saying but [TS]

01:28:06   then the numbers are wrong and all right [TS]

01:28:08   just like about the insane make them [TS]

01:28:10   just like your heads explode [TS]

01:28:12   it's gonna be the doctor with an [TS]

01:28:13   asterisk well remember we talked about [TS]

01:28:14   like a two seasons ago we talked about [TS]

01:28:17   be like well what is it like 13 [TS]

01:28:19   regeneration is like all they've already [TS]

01:28:20   extended to 14 or whatever like the end [TS]

01:28:22   of the regeneration if they're gonna run [TS]

01:28:24   this series well here's the easy out for [TS]

01:28:25   you is like a hot really is X memory [TS]

01:28:27   generations with the only regeneration [TS]

01:28:28   is the counter when he's officially [TS]

01:28:30   ending as the doctor or something I [TS]

01:28:32   don't know but I that was fun because it [TS]

01:28:34   was a head-scratcher although even then [TS]

01:28:36   it was so kind of oddly done [TS]

01:28:38   his name in the titles my kids thought [TS]

01:28:40   that his name was john hurt like that [TS]

01:28:42   was he doesn't know that he's an actor [TS]

01:28:44   they thought to myself John is hurting [TS]

01:28:45   that is John hurting the doctor what hey [TS]

01:28:48   what hey that's done dr. John Smith but [TS]

01:28:50   this guy is john hurt so he hurts people [TS]

01:28:53   no that's not it its name of the actor [TS]

01:28:54   he's actually the doctor oh is it Jason [TS]

01:28:57   yeah or is he well i like that you know [TS]

01:28:59   what I like that your idea about being [TS]

01:29:01   the time war because that is something [TS]

01:29:03   we've heard about since the beginning of [TS]

01:29:04   the axon right and that's all knew from [TS]

01:29:06   the reboot air right it doesn't think [TS]

01:29:07   that that's the the biggest gap in [TS]

01:29:09   Doctor Who history right is from the orc [TS]

01:29:11   series of the new series and there's the [TS]

01:29:14   middle where there was paul mcgann and [TS]

01:29:16   then we'll and then Christopher [TS]

01:29:17   Eccleston and what happened in between [TS]

01:29:19   so it slides right on in there i think [TS]

01:29:22   that could be i'm looking forward to the [TS]

01:29:24   50th anniversary episode because i [TS]

01:29:25   actually do feel like in some ways this [TS]

01:29:28   last episode of the season was was was [TS]

01:29:31   set up and clearing away some of the [TS]

01:29:33   obligatory classic doctor who references [TS]

01:29:37   to then tell a different story for the [TS]

01:29:41   50th we'll see [TS]

01:29:43   yeah i'm i'm i'm intrigued sufficiently [TS]

01:29:46   trained and maybe maybe John Hurt can be [TS]

01:29:49   the new companion and then haha [TS]

01:29:51   Scott will feel better let's go maybe [TS]

01:29:53   he's Clara is the impossible doctor that [TS]

01:29:56   would be impossible [TS]

01:29:58   so uh I guess to sum up that we all seem [TS]

01:30:01   fairly uh fairly disappointed by this [TS]

01:30:03   this half-season does that sound about [TS]

01:30:05   right I was I was I was beside myself [TS]

01:30:07   early on because I thought after cold [TS]

01:30:10   warrior and I thought oh jeez they've [TS]

01:30:12   completely lost it and then I they're [TS]

01:30:14   managed to be some redemptive episodes [TS]

01:30:17   that came on after including hide which [TS]

01:30:19   I really glommed onto was like hey it's [TS]

01:30:21   a good episode but in general I was you [TS]

01:30:24   know it was kind of a letdown and and if [TS]

01:30:27   you if you compare it to the the first [TS]

01:30:28   half of the season it's sort of a a big [TS]

01:30:30   letdown because i don't think i think [TS]

01:30:32   that the batting average way lower this [TS]

01:30:34   this season as a whole then it was the [TS]

01:30:37   previous two years of the of them off at [TS]

01:30:38   era for sure I don't think I thought [TS]

01:30:41   they were not lots of super terrible [TS]

01:30:43   like claw your eyeballs out episode but [TS]

01:30:46   they're also very few really amazing [TS]

01:30:49   ones [TS]

01:30:49   fair enough below average and it was [TS]

01:30:51   just kind of forgettable I didn't find [TS]

01:30:53   myself getting angry at it like you know [TS]

01:30:55   but it was just kinda like yeah yeah you [TS]

01:30:58   know I thought it was I thought it was [TS]

01:31:00   consistently I thought it was [TS]

01:31:02   consistently enjoyable but never [TS]

01:31:04   spectacular i wanted to look forward to [TS]

01:31:07   all the episodes more I mean I still [TS]

01:31:08   look forward to them but then i get to [TS]

01:31:10   the end and i feel kind of like yeah I [TS]

01:31:13   wish that had been done better [TS]

01:31:14   like I mean I don't remember like [TS]

01:31:16   looking back now I try to remember when [TS]

01:31:18   I thought that was that that high [TS]

01:31:19   watermark and it may as much as I love [TS]

01:31:22   Matt Smith it may have been the you know [TS]

01:31:24   the tenant area especially towards the [TS]

01:31:25   end we had tenants and with with [TS]

01:31:28   catherine tate maybe I'll back out what [TS]

01:31:30   they used to have like there was always [TS]

01:31:31   one or two really great ones and the [TS]

01:31:33   thing is like it you know Donna like [TS]

01:31:34   right now if you clarify before she was [TS]

01:31:37   only one season right yeah and like I [TS]

01:31:39   think I think back and then it stretches [TS]

01:31:41   out so far in my mind that it shows the [TS]

01:31:43   evening just one season in one companion [TS]

01:31:45   if you have a good story we forgive the [TS]

01:31:48   crappy episode you only remember the [TS]

01:31:49   good ones and you know like it it stands [TS]

01:31:52   out more min I think even like the Amy [TS]

01:31:54   Pond series which towards the end I was [TS]

01:31:56   you know getting grumpy about even that [TS]

01:31:58   watching this season I'm thinking back [TS]

01:31:59   to I'm finding my mind wandering back [TS]

01:32:01   like member many palms old and they let [TS]

01:32:03   her die [TS]

01:32:04   yeah that was you know that was the best [TS]

01:32:06   episode from season yeah yeah I just get [TS]

01:32:09   this this season made me just think back [TS]

01:32:11   to other episodes that i like better and [TS]

01:32:13   i totally acknowledge that I think that [TS]

01:32:15   there were not any terrible singers in [TS]

01:32:17   this one but it's just it didn't it [TS]

01:32:19   didn't rise up and you know it gets back [TS]

01:32:20   to what Scott was saying about Clara [TS]

01:32:22   that just her being a plot device rather [TS]

01:32:24   than a character was disappointing [TS]

01:32:25   because I really did like the actress [TS]

01:32:27   I'm actually hopeful that now that she [TS]

01:32:29   said she is coming back and she no [TS]

01:32:30   longer has the burden of being the [TS]

01:32:32   impossible girl she may actually be a [TS]

01:32:33   better character as it strange that [TS]

01:32:35   sound what so what's her story now like [TS]

01:32:37   what is her our quickest what is her [TS]

01:32:39   voter what I i think it would be awfully [TS]

01:32:41   refreshing if her story was that she was [TS]

01:32:43   the doctors companion and like to travel [TS]

01:32:45   with him and wasn't part of some [TS]

01:32:47   complicated time-travel based story are [TS]

01:32:50   then right then it's imagine the [TS]

01:32:52   episodes for them to be like actual good [TS]

01:32:54   episodes with interesting sci-fi prime [TS]

01:32:55   yes or whatever that's i love that water [TS]

01:32:58   well I mean her hook can be she was the [TS]

01:33:01   impossible girl she saved him [TS]

01:33:03   and now they can and now they've got a [TS]

01:33:06   bond because of that I i love matt smith [TS]

01:33:09   and jenna-louise Coleman as actors and I [TS]

01:33:13   i think they can do interesting stuff [TS]

01:33:15   with her going on in the future that the [TS]

01:33:17   trick is going to be to give her a [TS]

01:33:20   character art because muffin made this [TS]

01:33:22   mistake with Amy Pond he made her the [TS]

01:33:26   mystery to be solved and then when that [TS]

01:33:29   mystery was over and done with [TS]

01:33:31   then they had to figure out what to do [TS]

01:33:33   with her and Rory and that was and and i [TS]

01:33:36   would like to see him not make that same [TS]

01:33:38   mistake right I agree all right we have [TS]

01:33:41   talked to talk to talk it out [TS]

01:33:43   we've solved all the problems doctor who [TS]

01:33:45   we will roll onto the 50th anniversary [TS]

01:33:48   where there will be a special on the [TS]

01:33:51   actual day it's a saturday no less so [TS]

01:33:53   it's perfect i utterly failed to model [TS]

01:33:55   brevity tonight didn't that's okay [TS]

01:33:57   yeah we ran a little long we we we've [TS]

01:33:59   ruined you we've we brought you over to [TS]

01:34:02   our side that's the 200 minute Time Lord [TS]

01:34:04   it does so the 50th anniversary in [TS]

01:34:07   November on a Saturday there's also as [TS]

01:34:09   chip mentioned earlier the docudrama [TS]

01:34:11   written by Mark Gatiss about the [TS]

01:34:13   creation of the show which I i was [TS]

01:34:16   actually I actually met chip at the [TS]

01:34:18   gallery one convention in LA last year [TS]

01:34:21   when one of the year the original [TS]

01:34:23   director of the first episode of doctor [TS]

01:34:25   who spoke it's a great story of how this [TS]

01:34:28   show got on the air but against all odds [TS]

01:34:30   with a with a team of misfits [TS]

01:34:32   essentially who are the rejects of the [TS]

01:34:34   BBC who did all the old guard the BBC [TS]

01:34:37   didn't want them to didn't want to work [TS]

01:34:39   on this ridiculous show and so they kind [TS]

01:34:41   of cast off all these people and they [TS]

01:34:43   made this thing that has endured for 50 [TS]

01:34:44   years so I'm looking forward to the the [TS]

01:34:46   docudrama that is is also coming in [TS]

01:34:49   november and then there will be a [TS]

01:34:50   Christmas special after that and there [TS]

01:34:52   will be a new series next year it's been [TS]

01:34:53   announced [TS]

01:34:54   I'm i'm going to assume that's going to [TS]

01:34:56   be it for Steven Moffat and matt smith [TS]

01:34:58   after that season but we'll see [TS]

01:35:00   so there's a lot more to come and I hope [TS]

01:35:03   springs eternal [TS]

01:35:03   I'm looking forward to it even though [TS]

01:35:05   this year is not been the greatest so [TS]

01:35:08   anyway and and Scott doesn't doesn't [TS]

01:35:11   like Clara shame shames I I just met you [TS]

01:35:15   and you're dead to me [TS]

01:35:16   haha don't worry i I've broken myself [TS]

01:35:19   into fragments and I'll just you just [TS]

01:35:21   keep meeting [TS]

01:35:22   nah its diabolical alright i would like [TS]

01:35:27   to thank my guests for spending all this [TS]

01:35:28   time talking Doctor Who Scott McNulty [TS]

01:35:31   you will always be known as the man who [TS]

01:35:33   didn't like Clara goodnight i was [TS]

01:35:36   shocked when dr. whose name turned out [TS]

01:35:38   to be [TS]

01:35:42   yes it was it was shocking i did not [TS]

01:35:46   expand ooh thank you you've ruined [TS]

01:35:49   everything [TS]

01:35:50   I Dan Morgan thank you i was also really [TS]

01:35:53   surprised when [TS]

01:35:56   you hired I don't know what you're [TS]

01:36:01   talking about John series with John [TS]

01:36:03   siracusa thank you for being here you [TS]

01:36:06   know Jason if the TARDIS is infinite [TS]

01:36:07   isn't any place in at the center [TS]

01:36:10   yeah I don't think the TARDIS is [TS]

01:36:12   infinite I think that's wrong and I [TS]

01:36:14   heard on a podcast wanna yeah I don't [TS]

01:36:16   believe it and chip thanks for being [TS]

01:36:18   here [TS]

01:36:19   I really appreciate you coming on and [TS]

01:36:21   sharing your sharing your perspective [TS]

01:36:22   and I enjoy your podcast so much that I [TS]

01:36:24   just wanted to have you visit us so [TS]

01:36:26   thank you very much i appreciate Jason [TS]

01:36:28   thanks a lot [TS]

01:36:29   chip you are i mentioned your podcast [TS]

01:36:32   it's the 2-minute Time Lord tell people [TS]

01:36:34   where you can find it it's at TW 0 [TS]

01:36:36   minute Time Lord dot-com and i'm on [TS]

01:36:38   twitter and facebook at numeral two [TS]

01:36:40   minute Time Lord numeral two minute I [TS]

01:36:41   listen to the podcast I could I could [TS]

01:36:43   have said that I did you probably could [TS]

01:36:45   have done it word-for-word they're not [TS]

01:36:46   all quite two minutes long but they're [TS]

01:36:49   short and I like that they're short and [TS]

01:36:51   little essay is about Doctor Who it's [TS]

01:36:53   very nice do you regret using both the [TS]

01:36:55   numeral two and then spelling it out of [TS]

01:36:56   the URL so now you are forever having to [TS]

01:36:58   distinguish which one is spelled out in [TS]

01:37:00   which one uses the numeral and [TS]

01:37:02   constantly being mocked for it by my [TS]

01:37:04   fellow doctor who podcast right in there [TS]

01:37:06   blue snowballs yes numeral two minute [TS]

01:37:09   timely and we'll get you back for that [TS]

01:37:11   Babylon 5 episode which will eventually [TS]

01:37:13   happen [TS]

01:37:14   woohoo yeah but until then this is jason [TS]

01:37:18   stuff for the uncomfortable [TS]

01:37:19   we'll see you later [TS]

01:37:25   wait a second did we do a show on the [TS]

01:37:32   first half of the season already [TS]

01:37:33   we did we did was I on that show you [TS]

01:37:35   were I think you were well alright a [TS]

01:37:37   fragment of you take your word for it [TS]

01:37:41   have I died before what do you say our [TS]

01:37:43   good boy stepped into a vortex and erase [TS]

01:37:48   your participant that's true well yeah [TS]

01:37:50   we went in without now makes the hot [TS]

01:37:52   cast can give you one better about that [TS]

01:37:54   you are now played by a bit of that [TS]

01:37:56   Cumberbatch no well that's something [TS]

01:37:58   upgrade yeah [TS]