Under the Radar 53: Seasonality
00:00:00
◼
►
welcome to under the radar a show about
00:00:01
◼
►
independent iOS app development I'm
00:00:03
◼
►
Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under
00:00:06
◼
►
the radar is never longer than 30
00:00:07
◼
►
minutes so let's get started so today we
00:00:10
◼
►
as we were sort of right now at the
00:00:12
◼
►
beginning of November it seemed a good
00:00:13
◼
►
time to talk a little bit about
00:00:16
◼
►
seasonality and the way seasonality can
00:00:18
◼
►
apply both to our work in terms of the
00:00:21
◼
►
things we're doing what we're promoting
00:00:23
◼
►
and the timing of when we launch new
00:00:25
◼
►
products or updates as well as a little
00:00:27
◼
►
bit just the seasonality of the work
00:00:29
◼
►
itself and the way that kind of works
00:00:30
◼
►
for us but especially I kind of it's
00:00:33
◼
►
something that comes to mind because in
00:00:34
◼
►
the early days of the App Store
00:00:36
◼
►
perhaps in the the first maybe three or
00:00:38
◼
►
four years there was a very strong
00:00:41
◼
►
seasonality to downloads and sales and
00:00:45
◼
►
especially in the sense that like the
00:00:46
◼
►
day Christmas Day the day after
00:00:48
◼
►
Christmas were massively huge sales days
00:00:53
◼
►
for Fermi back in those days and it was
00:00:55
◼
►
a reliable predictable thing that I
00:00:57
◼
►
would need as best I could to gear my
00:01:00
◼
►
entire business towards being available
00:01:02
◼
►
then because those few days would make
00:01:05
◼
►
up a non insignificant percentage of my
00:01:07
◼
►
revenue for the year like it wasn't like
00:01:08
◼
►
50% more it was maybe like 10 percent of
00:01:10
◼
►
my revenue but still getting ten percent
00:01:12
◼
►
of your revenue in one week of the year
00:01:13
◼
►
meant that it was very important to line
00:01:16
◼
►
everything up and I remember doing lots
00:01:18
◼
►
of work where especially back when app
00:01:20
◼
►
review could take a very long time you
00:01:23
◼
►
know you'd be looking at at least 10
00:01:25
◼
►
days ish for a review and so you'd have
00:01:28
◼
►
all these things that I needed to line
00:01:30
◼
►
up to get you know submitted at the very
00:01:32
◼
►
latest by the beginning of December so
00:01:34
◼
►
that I could make sure I if I had a
00:01:36
◼
►
rejection cycle I could get it approved
00:01:37
◼
►
in time and you can't be happy in this
00:01:39
◼
►
mindset towards that and then I would
00:01:44
◼
►
say increasingly that is less though the
00:01:46
◼
►
way I think I think both Britos the
00:01:48
◼
►
impact of that has perhaps diminished
00:01:51
◼
►
slightly but also I think I just think
00:01:54
◼
►
about seasonality a bit more generally
00:01:56
◼
►
now and I think it's probably helpful to
00:01:58
◼
►
not just view it as everything is on
00:02:02
◼
►
that one day but I think there is a
00:02:04
◼
►
something to be said for thinking about
00:02:05
◼
►
your product and thinking about are
00:02:07
◼
►
there events or things that you can
00:02:10
◼
►
latch onto that would make sense to time
00:02:13
◼
►
you're launched and in two also in terms
00:02:16
◼
►
of promotion with Apple like this is
00:02:17
◼
►
something that I start to think about a
00:02:18
◼
►
lot more recently is how it's like the
00:02:23
◼
►
Apple AppStore editorial team's job is
00:02:25
◼
►
to find things that they can promote and
00:02:29
◼
►
to promote in a relevant way for them
00:02:31
◼
►
and they're always looking they're
00:02:33
◼
►
putting together to constantly these
00:02:35
◼
►
different sort of lists and bundles of
00:02:36
◼
►
applications to try and promote and
00:02:38
◼
►
thinking of ways to time things so that
00:02:41
◼
►
I can be part of that has become
00:02:42
◼
►
something that it seems like
00:02:43
◼
►
increasingly makes sense but it is still
00:02:46
◼
►
something that I think about as we're
00:02:48
◼
►
coming in to the end of the year and I
00:02:51
◼
►
still have in the back of my mind like
00:02:52
◼
►
I'm is everything gonna be inlined up
00:02:54
◼
►
there's everything gonna be ready and I
00:02:56
◼
►
think in general there's a strange
00:02:57
◼
►
aspect to that of I probably should
00:03:00
◼
►
always be worried about making sure that
00:03:02
◼
►
everything is buttoned down and ready
00:03:04
◼
►
but at least maybe these little
00:03:05
◼
►
seasonality things are good reminders to
00:03:07
◼
►
me that I'm starting to think like what
00:03:09
◼
►
are the App Store ratings looking like
00:03:10
◼
►
in all my apps are there things that I
00:03:12
◼
►
should do to make sure that's the case
00:03:14
◼
►
if I had I'd update with a bad set of
00:03:16
◼
►
reviews for whatever reason like do I
00:03:18
◼
►
need to get an update out reset my
00:03:19
◼
►
reviews and then try and mark it around
00:03:21
◼
►
improving that rating like these all
00:03:24
◼
►
these little things that are probably
00:03:25
◼
►
good to do all year round but especially
00:03:27
◼
►
probably good to do around big events
00:03:29
◼
►
when sales for downloads are gonna be
00:03:31
◼
►
higher yeah but I mean as you mentioned
00:03:33
◼
►
like it is really hard to tell when
00:03:35
◼
►
those times are gonna be now I mean
00:03:37
◼
►
they're you know the few obvious
00:03:38
◼
►
predictable ones or you know things like
00:03:40
◼
►
the holiday season and and new iPhone or
00:03:44
◼
►
new iPad release as I would say those
00:03:45
◼
►
those are the big ones but even those I
00:03:47
◼
►
think the reason why that we've seen
00:03:50
◼
►
over time things like Christmas Day and
00:03:52
◼
►
Christmas week being lower than in
00:03:54
◼
►
previous years
00:03:55
◼
►
I think the main reason why is that
00:03:57
◼
►
we're seeing fewer people who were
00:03:59
◼
►
getting their very first iOS device on
00:04:01
◼
►
these big holidays
00:04:03
◼
►
I think the there's much more people who
00:04:06
◼
►
are just getting replacement or upgrade
00:04:08
◼
►
devices or you know new customers might
00:04:11
◼
►
be just being more spread out throughout
00:04:12
◼
►
the rest of the year now who are new to
00:04:15
◼
►
the platform like people who are
00:04:16
◼
►
converting from Android if they want to
00:04:17
◼
►
and stuff like that
00:04:18
◼
►
so you know when when you get your very
00:04:21
◼
►
first device you go on an app spree and
00:04:23
◼
►
you go get a bunch of apps that you
00:04:24
◼
►
might like and want to fill it up or
00:04:26
◼
►
whatever and
00:04:27
◼
►
when when you're just getting a new
00:04:28
◼
►
phone for the year or your your second
00:04:31
◼
►
or third iPad then there's less there's
00:04:35
◼
►
a lot less of that like you know new
00:04:36
◼
►
apps pre that you go on and so I think
00:04:39
◼
►
that plays a big part of why like make
00:04:42
◼
►
your gift-giving holidays are no longer
00:04:44
◼
►
but you know a big thing for most app
00:04:46
◼
►
developers but you know a new a new iOS
00:04:48
◼
►
device releases obviously can be
00:04:50
◼
►
especially if you're like you know like
00:04:52
◼
►
you often do if you're taking advantage
00:04:54
◼
►
of a new API that or a new a new type of
00:04:57
◼
►
app that just became available with new
00:04:59
◼
►
hardware then obviously you're starting
00:05:02
◼
►
basically from zero so like those days
00:05:04
◼
►
you'll have really big you know those
00:05:05
◼
►
long cuz you'll have a really big
00:05:07
◼
►
potential there but it's also hard to
00:05:10
◼
►
tell now because we're seeing our income
00:05:14
◼
►
be spread out more as we switch more to
00:05:16
◼
►
ad based and in-app purchase based
00:05:19
◼
►
revenue models you know like it you know
00:05:21
◼
►
if you had you know what but we used to
00:05:23
◼
►
have pretty much all of it which would
00:05:25
◼
►
paid upfront apps paid up for an app
00:05:27
◼
►
stay really great on Christmas Day
00:05:28
◼
►
because you paid to get the app right
00:05:30
◼
►
then you wanted to use it these days if
00:05:33
◼
►
you get you know you might get increased
00:05:34
◼
►
downloads that day but your revenue
00:05:36
◼
►
might not show that for a while so it's
00:05:39
◼
►
it's all kind of blending together now
00:05:40
◼
►
but I think ultimately what it comes
00:05:42
◼
►
down to is the the saturation of the App
00:05:45
◼
►
Store so you know it makes it make
00:05:48
◼
►
everything harder makes it all the
00:05:49
◼
►
competition tighter and everything and
00:05:50
◼
►
makes each individual app have kind of
00:05:52
◼
►
lower lower Peaks I think and also just
00:05:55
◼
►
the fact that so many people already
00:05:57
◼
►
have iOS devices and the the new sales
00:06:00
◼
►
are more to people who were existing
00:06:02
◼
►
customers than the new customers yeah
00:06:05
◼
►
there is still something that I see that
00:06:08
◼
►
in my in my own time my own sort of even
00:06:11
◼
►
experience at the App Store that I do
00:06:12
◼
►
think there is still an element of and
00:06:15
◼
►
maybe it's less seasonality and more
00:06:17
◼
►
event-driven downloads i deceived myself
00:06:20
◼
►
like I I mean maybe the one that always
00:06:24
◼
►
comes to mind for me is whenever there's
00:06:25
◼
►
a hurricane threatening the United
00:06:29
◼
►
States the top like in all of a sudden
00:06:32
◼
►
the top charts are full of radar apps
00:06:34
◼
►
right like which is something that is
00:06:37
◼
►
not a predictable reliable season but
00:06:40
◼
►
there's these periods of increased
00:06:42
◼
►
interest in an application category that
00:06:45
◼
►
I definitely still have huge impacts on
00:06:48
◼
►
downloads and I mean I do a lot of
00:06:50
◼
►
health and fitness stuff and so the
00:06:52
◼
►
beginning of January just in the same
00:06:54
◼
►
way that a lot of people go and get gym
00:06:56
◼
►
memberships and then you never use them
00:06:57
◼
►
again but a lot of people will go and
00:06:59
◼
►
download health and fitness apps at the
00:07:02
◼
►
beginning of January when they're saying
00:07:03
◼
►
like hey I'm gonna start a new thing I'm
00:07:04
◼
►
gonna whatever like for my case I'm
00:07:06
◼
►
gonna start counting my steps or being
00:07:08
◼
►
more active or whatever that may be
00:07:10
◼
►
like there's this certainly this uptick
00:07:12
◼
►
in it or there's just those event base
00:07:16
◼
►
things but I think in both cases there
00:07:18
◼
►
is certainly still this element where
00:07:20
◼
►
it's possible to have these big spikes
00:07:23
◼
►
and in your downloads and so like for me
00:07:25
◼
►
I know I need to think about it as if I
00:07:27
◼
►
have anything that said that sort of
00:07:29
◼
►
rail health and fitness related it
00:07:30
◼
►
should be as tight and buttoned down as
00:07:32
◼
►
it can possibly be by the middle to the
00:07:34
◼
►
end of December because January 1st is a
00:07:36
◼
►
big time for me and I imagine similarly
00:07:39
◼
►
maybe if you're working on a weather or
00:07:40
◼
►
radar app it's like making sure that
00:07:42
◼
►
you're nice and put into put into place
00:07:44
◼
►
before hurricane and the hurricane
00:07:47
◼
►
season starts or before big winter
00:07:49
◼
►
storms might be coming sort of like
00:07:51
◼
►
whenever there's this external thing
00:07:52
◼
►
it's just probably good to be aware of
00:07:54
◼
►
because I know and for a lot of my
00:07:56
◼
►
planning when I'm just kind of doing
00:07:57
◼
►
things it's so easy to just kind of I'm
00:08:00
◼
►
just kind of working on it until it's
00:08:01
◼
►
ready and one of the benefits of being
00:08:04
◼
►
self-employed is that I can just work on
00:08:06
◼
►
it until it's ready and then ship it out
00:08:08
◼
►
and lose sight of the fact that like the
00:08:11
◼
►
there these opportunities that are
00:08:12
◼
►
coming and even the other thing that
00:08:15
◼
►
comes to mind even is if one day I'd
00:08:17
◼
►
ever hope to win any and an Apple Design
00:08:20
◼
►
Award for example like I there's a
00:08:22
◼
►
certain timing that I should probably be
00:08:24
◼
►
have in the back of my mind as I'm
00:08:25
◼
►
building my products if that's something
00:08:27
◼
►
that I wanted to work towards because I
00:08:29
◼
►
imagine they're looking for apps that
00:08:30
◼
►
are probably majorly updated or released
00:08:33
◼
►
it's probably between the latest iOS
00:08:36
◼
►
launch and the spring like that's when
00:08:40
◼
►
they're going to be most looking for
00:08:41
◼
►
those those things that are going to
00:08:42
◼
►
fill the slot that they want to promote
00:08:44
◼
►
and you know hold up as examples of
00:08:46
◼
►
things but even if it's not necessarily
00:08:48
◼
►
something that I'm trying to do there's
00:08:50
◼
►
some value to having taken a step back
00:08:52
◼
►
from what you're
00:08:53
◼
►
and saying is there a timing element to
00:08:57
◼
►
this that I should be aware of and not
00:08:59
◼
►
you know necessarily kill myself to make
00:09:01
◼
►
happen like oh no I absolutely have to
00:09:03
◼
►
get the shipped in the next two weeks or
00:09:04
◼
►
it's all gonna fall apart like if that's
00:09:06
◼
►
your business plan that's probably
00:09:08
◼
►
flawed but at the very least it's
00:09:11
◼
►
looking at it and being like is there
00:09:12
◼
►
something that I should be aware of that
00:09:13
◼
►
I'm gonna kick myself for not being
00:09:15
◼
►
aware of if I don't get taken into
00:09:18
◼
►
account now all right or sponsor this
00:09:20
◼
►
week is Pingdom go to Pingdom calm a
00:09:23
◼
►
slash radar to get a 14-day free trial
00:09:25
◼
►
and you offer code radar at checkout for
00:09:27
◼
►
20% off your first invoice Pingdom is a
00:09:30
◼
►
wonderful monitoring service they are
00:09:33
◼
►
focused on making the web faster and
00:09:35
◼
►
more reliable for everybody who has a
00:09:36
◼
►
site or a web service and they do this
00:09:38
◼
►
by offering powerful and easy to use
00:09:40
◼
►
monitoring tools and services for
00:09:42
◼
►
example if your opinion music you can
00:09:44
◼
►
monitor the availability and performance
00:09:45
◼
►
of your server database or website with
00:09:47
◼
►
a it's just a breeze to do this it's so
00:09:49
◼
►
easy painting takes care that's be using
00:09:51
◼
►
more than 70 global test servers that
00:09:53
◼
►
emulate visits to your site checking its
00:09:55
◼
►
availability as often as every minute
00:09:57
◼
►
websites these days are becoming more
00:09:59
◼
►
and more sophisticated these often
00:10:01
◼
►
include several dependencies and
00:10:02
◼
►
interconnected pieces such as contact
00:10:04
◼
►
forms ecommerce checkouts logins search
00:10:06
◼
►
functionality and loads more so payment
00:10:09
◼
►
makes it possible to monitor the
00:10:10
◼
►
availability of all these key
00:10:11
◼
►
interactions people will have with your
00:10:13
◼
►
site or service it is not just about
00:10:15
◼
►
whether the site is up or down anymore
00:10:16
◼
►
it could be like your login form is down
00:10:18
◼
►
or your search is down so and let's be
00:10:21
◼
►
start breaks on the internet all the
00:10:23
◼
►
time Pingdom knows this because they're
00:10:25
◼
►
the ones monitoring it they detect
00:10:27
◼
►
around 13 million outages a month that's
00:10:30
◼
►
more than 400-thousand a day so whether
00:10:32
◼
►
you have a small website or you're
00:10:33
◼
►
managing a complete infrastructure it is
00:10:35
◼
►
very important to monitor its
00:10:36
◼
►
availability and performance and Pingdom
00:10:38
◼
►
is in my opinion the best tool to do
00:10:40
◼
►
that I've been acting customer for she's
00:10:43
◼
►
a very long time I think it was like
00:10:44
◼
►
eight years I'm like that it's been a
00:10:46
◼
►
very long time since way before they
00:10:49
◼
►
were a sponsor before I was a podcaster
00:10:51
◼
►
I've been using Pingdom and I have no
00:10:54
◼
►
complaints it's wonderful so all you got
00:10:56
◼
►
to do you go to Pingdom comm slash radar
00:10:58
◼
►
you sign up use code radar today 20% off
00:11:01
◼
►
your first invoice checkout and then
00:11:03
◼
►
when when they detect an outage you
00:11:04
◼
►
become immediately alerted
00:11:07
◼
►
via whatever means you want SMS push
00:11:09
◼
►
notification email any combination of
00:11:11
◼
►
these things you are immediately alerted
00:11:13
◼
►
so you can fix the error before the
00:11:15
◼
►
downtime affects you and your customers
00:11:17
◼
►
you do not want to be told that your
00:11:19
◼
►
site is down by people on Twitter you
00:11:21
◼
►
want to be the first to know so you can
00:11:22
◼
►
fix it before everyone else sees it
00:11:24
◼
►
check it out today and you will be the
00:11:25
◼
►
first to know when your site is down go
00:11:26
◼
►
to Pingdom comm slash radar for a 14-day
00:11:29
◼
►
use code radar take a 20% off at
00:11:31
◼
►
checkout thank you very much dependent
00:11:32
◼
►
for sponsoring alright and the other
00:11:34
◼
►
aspect of seasonality that seemed like
00:11:37
◼
►
it might be worth unpacking a little bit
00:11:39
◼
►
is the way that I think i'ma even my own
00:11:43
◼
►
work I imagine your own your your work
00:11:45
◼
►
to marco like can be very seasonal
00:11:48
◼
►
especially when you're not employed in a
00:11:51
◼
►
typical profession where obviously like
00:11:53
◼
►
my work was not really seasonal when
00:11:55
◼
►
I've had a nine-to-five job I went here
00:11:57
◼
►
and I worked ostensibly anyway from 9:00
00:11:59
◼
►
to 5:00 in the day I'm pretty sure mine
00:12:01
◼
►
was seasonal you know just my bosses
00:12:03
◼
►
didn't necessarily know that or or they
00:12:06
◼
►
were doing their best to pretend like
00:12:07
◼
►
they didn't notice that yeah but there
00:12:09
◼
►
is an element in when you're
00:12:10
◼
►
self-employed but like that did that
00:12:13
◼
►
illusion doesn't work quite as well
00:12:14
◼
►
where you really like I know for myself
00:12:18
◼
►
Mike my productivity and the my
00:12:20
◼
►
motivation the way in which I seem to be
00:12:23
◼
►
able to actually get things done can
00:12:24
◼
►
tend to have a certain seasonality to it
00:12:26
◼
►
where there are periods of time during
00:12:28
◼
►
the year where I'm just like really
00:12:31
◼
►
killing it and like writing interesting
00:12:33
◼
►
you know write writing great great
00:12:35
◼
►
updates new code all these things like
00:12:37
◼
►
everything's working well and there'll
00:12:38
◼
►
be periods of time when it just doesn't
00:12:40
◼
►
happen and the difficulty I think is
00:12:43
◼
►
both in being aware of that as a thing
00:12:47
◼
►
and then you know and so that you're not
00:12:49
◼
►
surprised by it or you know sort of
00:12:51
◼
►
beating yourself up when like man I'm
00:12:53
◼
►
just really not getting a lot of work
00:12:55
◼
►
done and being like okay you know this
00:12:56
◼
►
is fine this is something that happens
00:12:58
◼
►
but then also probably good to have the
00:13:01
◼
►
element of planning around that and
00:13:03
◼
►
thinking about like if you have control
00:13:06
◼
►
over your schedule what would an ideal
00:13:07
◼
►
schedule be adapting it to yourself
00:13:10
◼
►
because I feel like it's so easy to fall
00:13:12
◼
►
into the pattern of and something I
00:13:15
◼
►
still struggle with of the feeling that
00:13:18
◼
►
like 40 hours of work is the thing that
00:13:21
◼
►
I'm trying to always get out of me every
00:13:24
◼
►
week irrespective of whether that makes
00:13:26
◼
►
sense both in terms of how I feel you
00:13:29
◼
►
know physically health-wise etc what's
00:13:31
◼
►
going on in my life personally what's
00:13:33
◼
►
going on in the world like there's lots
00:13:35
◼
►
of things that I think can either
00:13:37
◼
►
encourage or motivate good good and
00:13:39
◼
►
effective work or demotivate and kind of
00:13:42
◼
►
take that out of you and kind of
00:13:44
◼
►
planning around that it's something
00:13:45
◼
►
that's probably a wise and useful thing
00:13:48
◼
►
to do because it's it's a strange thing
00:13:52
◼
►
to think of it in some ways when you
00:13:54
◼
►
kind of know if I boil down the big like
00:13:57
◼
►
the most important important work I've
00:13:59
◼
►
probably done in my business has likely
00:14:01
◼
►
been done mmm it's probably in maybe
00:14:04
◼
►
about six weeks or so over the last
00:14:07
◼
►
eight years like in the sense that like
00:14:11
◼
►
the the first versions of most of my
00:14:15
◼
►
most successful apps so like the first
00:14:16
◼
►
app that I ever had that was successful
00:14:18
◼
►
was an app called audiobooks which isn't
00:14:19
◼
►
like an audiobook player and I wrote it
00:14:21
◼
►
in a week between I had it I was doing
00:14:24
◼
►
consulting at the time and I had a
00:14:26
◼
►
period just you know like in consulting
00:14:28
◼
►
is inevitably the case where I had like
00:14:29
◼
►
a contract and I had about a week before
00:14:32
◼
►
my next contract started and I was like
00:14:33
◼
►
you know I'm just gonna work on this app
00:14:35
◼
►
idea that I have for that week it was
00:14:37
◼
►
like in that one week I'd built the
00:14:38
◼
►
basic version of the app and I put it in
00:14:40
◼
►
the app store and that happened out to
00:14:42
◼
►
be yeah it's probably the how most
00:14:45
◼
►
downloaded app I've ever had and if not
00:14:47
◼
►
if it isn't it's definitely the second
00:14:49
◼
►
most and was the app that I've turned
00:14:50
◼
►
app development from a like a sideline
00:14:55
◼
►
or a small part of my business into my
00:14:56
◼
►
primary business I was like that was in
00:14:58
◼
►
one week's work and similarly with
00:15:00
◼
►
pedometer like it was I wrote that
00:15:01
◼
►
happened about a little over a week or
00:15:03
◼
►
about yeah I was about a week because it
00:15:05
◼
►
was announced at the keynote when they
00:15:07
◼
►
announced the 5s and then I had a week
00:15:09
◼
►
until the 5ns launched and that was all
00:15:11
◼
►
I had to build the app and there's a few
00:15:14
◼
►
other kind of periods like that where
00:15:15
◼
►
you can have these really focused
00:15:17
◼
►
intensive periods that at least for me
00:15:19
◼
►
have been really impactful and important
00:15:21
◼
►
and that's a strange thought when I try
00:15:24
◼
►
and unpack it and be like wow my career
00:15:26
◼
►
like what have I been doing for the
00:15:27
◼
►
other like whatever eight years - six
00:15:30
◼
►
weeks of my life
00:15:31
◼
►
I don't want to think about it too much
00:15:33
◼
►
but I think there is something that's
00:15:34
◼
►
good about thinking about and being
00:15:36
◼
►
aware of that your work is not
00:15:39
◼
►
necessarily this like we're the nature
00:15:42
◼
►
of being a software developer is not
00:15:44
◼
►
like we're building a wall or something
00:15:47
◼
►
where every all we need to do is like we
00:15:48
◼
►
go over here we pick up a brick we walk
00:15:50
◼
►
over to the wall we put a little plaster
00:15:52
◼
►
down with the next brick and we walk
00:15:54
◼
►
back and forth and we can keep doing
00:15:55
◼
►
that really no matter what like we can
00:15:57
◼
►
just keep adding bricks in the rate at
00:15:58
◼
►
which we add bricks is how much progress
00:15:59
◼
►
we made when was the last time you saw a
00:16:01
◼
►
construction project I don't know it'd
00:16:05
◼
►
be wonderful if they just kept going
00:16:07
◼
►
until they were complete with no random
00:16:09
◼
►
interruptions and long breaks of
00:16:10
◼
►
seemingly nothing happen no it is that's
00:16:14
◼
►
not software development at all like
00:16:15
◼
►
that's not the way that our work goes
00:16:17
◼
►
where it's this very creative like
00:16:20
◼
►
esoteric like sometimes you just kind of
00:16:22
◼
►
get the idea and you get to get in a
00:16:24
◼
►
flow and you can really do some cool
00:16:25
◼
►
work and then at other times you just
00:16:27
◼
►
really can't yeah I mean my issue with
00:16:31
◼
►
this some of it is seasonal for sure
00:16:34
◼
►
you know there's certain like times
00:16:36
◼
►
where where I have a lot more family
00:16:38
◼
►
obligations or family events to do
00:16:41
◼
►
things like you know around summer
00:16:43
◼
►
vacation or around winter holidays any
00:16:45
◼
►
kind of travel obviously is a huge deal
00:16:48
◼
►
in in terms of lordosis my productivity
00:16:50
◼
►
which is generally bring it to zero so
00:16:52
◼
►
that's that's that's a big deal but my
00:16:55
◼
►
problem more is it's not necessarily all
00:16:58
◼
►
the family stuff it's all the just
00:17:00
◼
►
unexpected stuff or everyday
00:17:03
◼
►
distractions or everyday errands or
00:17:05
◼
►
things like that where I find that I my
00:17:09
◼
►
schedule is basically perforated with
00:17:11
◼
►
like lots of scattered holes and it and
00:17:16
◼
►
sometimes I can really buckle down and
00:17:17
◼
►
just get it done anyway get everything
00:17:18
◼
►
done that I need to do anyway but just
00:17:20
◼
►
like the the the realities of everyday
00:17:23
◼
►
family life especially when you work at
00:17:25
◼
►
home and when you want to be you know
00:17:27
◼
►
heavily involved in your child care then
00:17:31
◼
►
it's it's there's a lot of holes in the
00:17:33
◼
►
schedule basically it's very hard to get
00:17:35
◼
►
long blocks and to really make that make
00:17:37
◼
►
that work and and a lot of it it's also
00:17:41
◼
►
just self-imposed I mean a lot of it I
00:17:42
◼
►
just thought I'm not a very focused
00:17:44
◼
►
person I'm very easily to stray
00:17:45
◼
►
did I don't have an incredibly strong
00:17:47
◼
►
work ethic so the idea of like just
00:17:50
◼
►
sitting down with a strong routine
00:17:52
◼
►
during the time I do have even that
00:17:54
◼
►
doesn't always work out for me
00:17:56
◼
►
and then you have the you have other
00:17:57
◼
►
problems you have things like I mean you
00:18:00
◼
►
know not to make this political with the
00:18:02
◼
►
current political events but like you
00:18:04
◼
►
have things like national events that
00:18:06
◼
►
happen you know that that can really
00:18:09
◼
►
change either your ability to work or
00:18:12
◼
►
your or your motivation or your mood or
00:18:15
◼
►
can it can be like you know for instance
00:18:18
◼
►
if you were marketing an app and if you
00:18:21
◼
►
wanted to launch an app right after this
00:18:24
◼
►
US presidential election that just
00:18:27
◼
►
the day after it happened if your app
00:18:30
◼
►
appeals ten if you're a potential to
00:18:32
◼
►
liberal people would be a terrible day
00:18:35
◼
►
to launch that because you know like
00:18:37
◼
►
that would be it's kind of a day of
00:18:38
◼
►
mourning for like the side that loses a
00:18:40
◼
►
presidential election and or if if
00:18:43
◼
►
there's like a big national tragedy of
00:18:45
◼
►
some kind like if there's like a
00:18:46
◼
►
shooting or something like that like you
00:18:48
◼
►
know you try to avoid or you know some
00:18:50
◼
►
kind of natural disaster or like trying
00:18:52
◼
►
to launch an app or or do anything like
00:18:54
◼
►
that day is probably a bad idea you know
00:18:56
◼
►
and and so there's all sorts of other
00:18:57
◼
►
factors that will that will come into
00:19:00
◼
►
your life in your schedule and will
00:19:01
◼
►
disrupt your plans and you you have to
00:19:04
◼
►
have enough padding and you and you have
00:19:06
◼
►
to have you know enough slack in the
00:19:08
◼
►
plans that you can accommodate for these
00:19:09
◼
►
things when they come and you know you
00:19:10
◼
►
won't always I mean sometimes these
00:19:12
◼
►
things just come at the worst possible
00:19:13
◼
►
times or they're completely unexpected
00:19:15
◼
►
or whatever else but you know you have
00:19:18
◼
►
to have slack in your plans for for
00:19:19
◼
►
unfitted events like that and and you
00:19:22
◼
►
know because regardless of what if
00:19:23
◼
►
regardless of whether you want them to
00:19:24
◼
►
happen they will happen and and you
00:19:27
◼
►
should be ready for that but you know
00:19:29
◼
►
ultimately the when it comes down to
00:19:30
◼
►
like everyday motivation I mean just a
00:19:33
◼
►
really inconsistent I will have some
00:19:35
◼
►
days or weeks that I'm just on fire and
00:19:39
◼
►
I just get tons done and it's just like
00:19:42
◼
►
I I will do like an entire major version
00:19:45
◼
►
of overcast like my 3.0 I can do a good
00:19:49
◼
►
chunk of the work for 3.0 in like two
00:19:52
◼
►
weeks but it'll take me six months to
00:19:54
◼
►
ship it because I have so much other
00:19:56
◼
►
stuff that I'm juggling and balancing
00:19:59
◼
►
it's doing in like fits and spurts and
00:20:01
◼
►
attempting and then out that doesn't
00:20:02
◼
►
that didn't work so I've got a rollback
00:20:03
◼
►
try different approach whatever else or
00:20:06
◼
►
I'll just have like a month where I have
00:20:09
◼
►
so much family stuff and slacking going
00:20:13
◼
►
on that I just don't get anything done
00:20:14
◼
►
it's it's all I'm well I'm all over the
00:20:16
◼
►
map on that and it's part of the reason
00:20:19
◼
►
I typically look back on the time that I
00:20:22
◼
►
have spent like I look back on like a
00:20:24
◼
►
year I'm like what did I do this entire
00:20:26
◼
►
year and I'm usually not happy with the
00:20:30
◼
►
amount that I got done in software
00:20:32
◼
►
development I'm very I'm very proud of
00:20:34
◼
►
things like podcasts and I'm kind of
00:20:35
◼
►
forced to do those on a schedule look I
00:20:37
◼
►
had because I do them with other
00:20:38
◼
►
people's oh and there's sponsors and
00:20:39
◼
►
everything's like that there's an
00:20:40
◼
►
enforced schedule on that but the stuff
00:20:42
◼
►
that's more flexible I'm usually less
00:20:44
◼
►
proud of because I just I don't have a
00:20:48
◼
►
strong work ethic that makes me sit down
00:20:51
◼
►
and have these large blocks of
00:20:52
◼
►
uninterrupted work time consistently
00:20:55
◼
►
like I'll have those sometimes but I
00:20:56
◼
►
don't have them consistently but I think
00:20:58
◼
►
that's mostly my personality and I think
00:21:01
◼
►
there is something to be said though to
00:21:03
◼
►
fur and they'd only be touched from the
00:21:04
◼
►
end we touched on this last week we were
00:21:05
◼
►
talking about learning but there is
00:21:07
◼
►
something that I noticed for myself two
00:21:09
◼
►
of my it's easy to get stuck where you
00:21:13
◼
►
can do the interesting part of a problem
00:21:15
◼
►
or the like the part that's interest
00:21:17
◼
►
that's exciting to you yep and then you
00:21:19
◼
►
hit a point where you are having to do
00:21:23
◼
►
something that you don't really want to
00:21:24
◼
►
do and you suddenly your motivation and
00:21:27
◼
►
somehow magically disappears and you
00:21:29
◼
►
just like oh I'm suddenly very like this
00:21:31
◼
►
little distractible puppy that's just
00:21:33
◼
►
like oh there's a butterfly let me run
00:21:34
◼
►
around after it this is every time I've
00:21:37
◼
►
ever touched watchkit very I possibly do
00:21:43
◼
►
besides watch it yeah but I think it's
00:21:47
◼
►
important to understand that about
00:21:49
◼
►
we're like I have done that enough times
00:21:52
◼
►
that air than the first the first couple
00:21:54
◼
►
of times that that would happen like I
00:21:55
◼
►
don't think I had any self awareness
00:21:57
◼
►
that like what I'm doing is avoiding
00:21:59
◼
►
work because I don't actually want to
00:22:01
◼
►
work and the times that I'm very
00:22:03
◼
►
productive it's usually because I'm
00:22:04
◼
►
really excited or interested and you
00:22:06
◼
►
kind of get into these modes where all I
00:22:08
◼
►
think about is the problem I'm trying to
00:22:10
◼
►
solve and it's the like it can almost be
00:22:12
◼
►
annoying where
00:22:13
◼
►
I'm trying to do something else and it's
00:22:15
◼
►
like heaps the thought keeps popping
00:22:16
◼
►
into my head like oh what if I did this
00:22:17
◼
►
over here what if I did that over there
00:22:19
◼
►
and then like I'm in the shower and I'm
00:22:20
◼
►
like what you know like writing notes on
00:22:22
◼
►
the on the glass in the shower door
00:22:24
◼
►
being like these are things that I'm
00:22:25
◼
►
thinking about like it's if you're
00:22:28
◼
►
excited and motivated about what you're
00:22:30
◼
►
working on you're gonna be so much more
00:22:32
◼
►
productive and effective at it and
00:22:33
◼
►
that's something that I think for myself
00:22:34
◼
►
I've started to be very just trying to I
00:22:39
◼
►
try to be more conscious about this and
00:22:41
◼
►
that's only it's somewhat helpful
00:22:42
◼
►
because they're still necessarily going
00:22:43
◼
►
to be times that you have to do things
00:22:45
◼
►
that you don't want to do but at the
00:22:47
◼
►
very least if I can tell myself like
00:22:49
◼
►
have the sort of them the metacognition
00:22:51
◼
►
to say like the reason I'm taking longer
00:22:55
◼
►
to do this is because I'm not motivated
00:22:57
◼
►
to do it and at the very least then it
00:22:59
◼
►
gives me an opportunity to look at it
00:23:01
◼
►
and say is this really something I want
00:23:03
◼
►
to do is this something that I should be
00:23:07
◼
►
doing and I can make a decision and a
00:23:09
◼
►
choice and I can actually make the
00:23:11
◼
►
choice about it rather than just kind of
00:23:13
◼
►
pretending that it's not there and
00:23:15
◼
►
pretending that they're actual reason
00:23:16
◼
►
I'm not working or with actual reason
00:23:18
◼
►
I'm not making progress is because of
00:23:21
◼
►
something else something out of my
00:23:23
◼
►
control or something in my family or
00:23:24
◼
►
whatever it is that like there's a
00:23:26
◼
►
simply sometimes those things are just
00:23:28
◼
►
gonna impose themself upon you and
00:23:29
◼
►
sometimes I feel like for myself I can
00:23:32
◼
►
go seeking out those distractions or
00:23:34
◼
►
those things to pull me away because I
00:23:35
◼
►
don't actually care and I think having
00:23:38
◼
►
some degree of intentionality is helpful
00:23:41
◼
►
like I know for myself it doesn't it's
00:23:43
◼
►
not like it's this cure-all because even
00:23:46
◼
►
if the answer is like I don't want to do
00:23:48
◼
►
this because I don't want to do this but
00:23:49
◼
►
I still have to do this then well I'm
00:23:52
◼
►
kind of stuck and I just have to kind of
00:23:53
◼
►
transition into more like like crisis
00:23:57
◼
►
management of like how can I trick
00:23:59
◼
►
myself into thinking this is exciting
00:24:01
◼
►
and get it done but at the very least I
00:24:05
◼
►
can be aware of it and try and make some
00:24:06
◼
►
conscious choices about it that when I
00:24:08
◼
►
get into these kind of these funks in
00:24:09
◼
►
these seasons where I'm just not getting
00:24:11
◼
►
anything done
00:24:11
◼
►
maybe it's helpful to just think about
00:24:14
◼
►
it at least from that perspective and I
00:24:17
◼
►
think you know kind of wrapping it up
00:24:18
◼
►
back to the beat the beginning part of
00:24:20
◼
►
the show I think one of the things that
00:24:21
◼
►
helps a lot is a pretty strong
00:24:23
◼
►
externally imposed deadline you know
00:24:25
◼
►
like that that's one of the very
00:24:27
◼
►
from motivators I have is like if if I
00:24:29
◼
►
if I'm trying to get a nap or an update
00:24:32
◼
►
out but and it has to make it or I
00:24:35
◼
►
really should for business reasons make
00:24:37
◼
►
it you know in time for the next iOS
00:24:39
◼
►
update or the next iPhone or the next
00:24:40
◼
►
holiday season or whatever the case may
00:24:42
◼
►
be as we mentioned earlier that is often
00:24:45
◼
►
one of the only ways I can really be
00:24:46
◼
►
motivated to do something like you know
00:24:49
◼
►
this is something that I'm just not that
00:24:50
◼
►
I'm not motivated to do like some
00:24:52
◼
►
feature I don't want to do or some like
00:24:54
◼
►
nitty gritty detail that I just don't
00:24:56
◼
►
find interesting to work on or that I
00:24:57
◼
►
know is going to be tedious to work on
00:24:59
◼
►
you know that's having an externally
00:25:02
◼
►
imposed deadline or some other external
00:25:04
◼
►
pressure to do it is often necessary
00:25:07
◼
►
it's certainly helpful and as Indies we
00:25:12
◼
►
often don't have that especially like if
00:25:13
◼
►
things are going generally okay like if
00:25:16
◼
►
we're making enough money to survive and
00:25:17
◼
►
to stay in business it's hard to be able
00:25:19
◼
►
to be motivated by many other external
00:25:22
◼
►
factors for things like feature updates
00:25:24
◼
►
cuz like what do you really motive like
00:25:27
◼
►
right now there's nobody pressuring me
00:25:30
◼
►
to get over cast 3.0 out the door nobody
00:25:32
◼
►
like sure I have no reason to do it
00:25:34
◼
►
except that I assume at some point I
00:25:36
◼
►
will have competition so strong that I
00:25:40
◼
►
need to you know answer to it with my
00:25:42
◼
►
own updates or whatever else but besides
00:25:45
◼
►
that the main motivation for getting
00:25:46
◼
►
over cast 3 at the door is myself it's I
00:25:49
◼
►
am doing I think better things in it and
00:25:52
◼
►
I want I want everyone to see these
00:25:54
◼
►
things and to use these things and - I
00:25:56
◼
►
want the app to be better and that's a
00:25:59
◼
►
great motivation and if you don't have
00:26:00
◼
►
that motivation I think you're in
00:26:01
◼
►
trouble for lots of other reasons but
00:26:03
◼
►
that is not a rush like that that
00:26:05
◼
►
doesn't impose any kind of timeline on
00:26:07
◼
►
you and it's very easy to fall into the
00:26:09
◼
►
trap of like well I I can just make it a
00:26:12
◼
►
little bit better just a little bit
00:26:13
◼
►
better and oh if I don't release it in
00:26:15
◼
►
December well how about February how
00:26:17
◼
►
about April and just you keep going back
00:26:19
◼
►
and back and back and before you know it
00:26:20
◼
►
it's been like three years
00:26:22
◼
►
before you released anything and and
00:26:25
◼
►
that's that's not good for for your app
00:26:27
◼
►
or your customers or your budgeting or
00:26:29
◼
►
anything like that and so if times you
00:26:32
◼
►
really needs some kind of external
00:26:35
◼
►
pressure to get these things out the
00:26:36
◼
►
door yeah and even one little trigger
00:26:38
◼
►
I've definitely did use myself is
00:26:41
◼
►
the making it like it's bad to make like
00:26:44
◼
►
external public commitments about things
00:26:46
◼
►
and features and timelines oh yes don't
00:26:48
◼
►
do that don't do that but I do find that
00:26:51
◼
►
if I can if I can find non non
00:26:55
◼
►
commitment ways of sharing what I'm
00:26:57
◼
►
working on and kind of creating a sense
00:27:01
◼
►
of interest or anticipation from other
00:27:03
◼
►
people whether that's friends and family
00:27:05
◼
►
whether that's customers or people who
00:27:08
◼
►
follow you on the internet like whatever
00:27:09
◼
►
that looks like for you but I know for
00:27:11
◼
►
myself like even on the show like
00:27:12
◼
►
talking about my next app is written in
00:27:14
◼
►
and put like making that commitment out
00:27:17
◼
►
just out in public it's like now when I
00:27:19
◼
►
hit the problems with this app that has
00:27:21
◼
►
been taking me much longer than I wish
00:27:23
◼
►
it would have and some of those are
00:27:24
◼
►
because I'm still learning Swift it's
00:27:26
◼
►
like I can't just say like okay I'm not
00:27:28
◼
►
just gonna do this or I'm gonna back out
00:27:29
◼
►
it's been instructive to have this
00:27:31
◼
►
external thing that it's like no no no I
00:27:32
◼
►
was like I'm I don't want to do the
00:27:34
◼
►
episode of like why I abandoned that
00:27:36
◼
►
commitment and so I'm being able to work
00:27:39
◼
►
towards it and similarly I've worked on
00:27:40
◼
►
other apps in the past where it's like I
00:27:41
◼
►
start talking about them at a high level
00:27:44
◼
►
or trying to which is good maybe good
00:27:46
◼
►
marketing to and kind of building a
00:27:47
◼
►
little bit of anticipation but even from
00:27:49
◼
►
a timing perspective to say that like
00:27:51
◼
►
here's something that I'm hoping to get
00:27:52
◼
►
out by and such and such and then what
00:27:54
◼
►
you as soon as it's outside of yourself
00:27:55
◼
►
and there's even this vague sense of
00:27:57
◼
►
someone else who might be expecting that
00:27:59
◼
►
I can find it can be a little bit
00:28:00
◼
►
motivating and a little bit of making a
00:28:03
◼
►
timeline for you to you know kind of
00:28:05
◼
►
move forward with things yeah that
00:28:08
◼
►
alright I think we're out of time this
00:28:10
◼
►
week thanks a lot to our sponsor Pingdom
00:28:11
◼
►
and thanks listeners for listening and
00:28:13
◼
►
we will talk to you next week bye