Under the Radar 45: Ads ★★☆☆☆
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welcome to under the radar a show about
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independent iOS app development I'm
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Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under
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the radar is never longer than 30
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minutes so let's get started so today we
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wanted to talk again about the App Store
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and about how at the App Store is
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changing over time and especially around
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this time when iOS 10 is coming out and
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things are changing and especially this
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year where it seems like for the first
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time we're having all this change and I
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don't like tumult in the App Store where
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we're getting subscription of my model
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of changing their search ads coming
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they're purging old ad apps from the App
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Store they're changing app review review
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timing all kinds of things are changing
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in the App Store and all that change
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recently made me take a look back and do
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what I like I love doing most which is
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making a chart of course any time I kind
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of feel nostalgic or curious
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I'll try and make it to make a chart out
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of that and so what happened I did and
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this is a lot of we're gonna start
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talking about it's an article I wrote
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called evolving apps for business models
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which I'll have the link to in the show
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notes a lot of these things I feel are
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so easy to get stuck on like the way you
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feel now and these slow gradual changes
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are hard to really pin down for like
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what's actually been happening in the
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App Store because you know it's been
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quite a while since I've been it I
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submitted my first app I think my first
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app I submitted almost eight years ago
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and a lots changed since then
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and the interesting thing that I found
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is when I went back to my all like my
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app store sales data as far back as I
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had kept it and honestly I really wish I
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had my data all the way back to eight
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years ago but I just don't like I
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consolidated into a new like reporting
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system only like three or four years ago
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and certainly have dated back to then
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but then nevertheless you should release
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that oh it's awful it is it is one of
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those classic projects which I'm sure
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any developer can appreciate where it is
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it is designed to work for nobody but me
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like it like I do weird things it's a it
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makes no sense to anybody but me but for
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me it's perfect and like I have to run
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like these six scripts to get all the
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data in and the way I like it but it
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works for me so I would not recommend
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if you'd looking if you're looking for a
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sales and reporting system I'm sure
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there are many great hosted providers to
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do what you want to do don't roll your
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own I can tell you it's terrible but if
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you have this data you can go back and
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the most striking chart and I think the
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thing that is most strongly drawn
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attention to this article was I did a
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chart of the percent of my revenue from
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three different sources from an I
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purchase from paid sales and from
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advertising and the truly remarkable
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thing from that graph is the way that
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advertising has just been steadily
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clawing away at paid sales over the last
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four years to such a in such a linear
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and clear way that when I first saw it I
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was like wow like my date is broken like
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there's no way there's this linear of a
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progression like I'm doing something
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wrong in my analysis but turns out check
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the data this is what it is like I went
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from a period in the beginning of 2012
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where only about 10% of my revenue
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kimkim advertising and now it's getting
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close to about 80% now my revenue comes
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from advertising and interestingly over
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that period in our purchased in revenue
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has remained almost they almost constant
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like not quite it's certainly gone up
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and down but roughly it's been hovering
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around 15 to 20 percent of my revenue
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and that's kind of fascinating to me
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because it shows how in sort of stark
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numbers how the App Store has been
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changing in a way that I kind of feel
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that this has been changing you know
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it's kind of the old thing we've talked
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about for so long about the race to the
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bottom about lack of trials or the death
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of a paid model or repeat the devaluing
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of software like all these things that
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you could kind of the things that we
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talked about a software developers I
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always find it reassuring where rather
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than just kind of like wishy-washy
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talking about things to actually look at
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the numbers and say like is that
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actually true and yeah like as somebody
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who has been doing this full-time who's
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been doing it with a lot of apps who's
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been doing it probably more more
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importantly who's tried about every
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business model you can think of the ones
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that have worked over time has changed
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and the business model now that seems
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most reliable for me is advertising and
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paid sales are now
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vanishingly small percentage of my SAP
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and even more crazies when I look at the
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chart you can see part of what makes a
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paid sales so terrible because there's
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these massive spikes where I launched a
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new out big spike in paid sales and then
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it just falls off again and that more
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than anything else the thing that I you
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know really don't like about paid sales
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and how just volatile that is when
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you're trying to make a living from it
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yeah I mean we've all I mean anybody
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who's ever had a paid app in the store
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has seen this exact same pattern before
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of like you know if you're lucky you
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have the launch where you have a decent
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spike and then no matter what no matter
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how lucky you were at launch it just
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drops off after a few days probably at
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most and starts to level off into you
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know basically a slowly declining
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plateau after the Hat of sadness and and
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uncertainty and what I found is that
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every time you know if I have a paid app
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suppose suppose I do like a 2.0 or 3.0
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like a major update even if they get a
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lot of press I might get spikes on that
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day but it's never as high as the
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initial launch spike and you know and
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like every every spike you have
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subsequent to an app's launch is usually
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smaller than the one before it
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to the point where now like even makes
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your holidays don't really impact me at
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all like used to be like Christmas used
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to be a major sales day and and now like
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paid apps don't even do that well it's
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it's it's kind of sad really but I guess
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it does you know as you're saying here
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it really does reflect the the reality
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of what people are doing a regardless of
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how we think things should be or how we
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wish things would be this shows you know
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what people are actually doing how
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people are choosing to spend money or
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not spend money in the App Store I think
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is very clear here yeah and I think it
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speaks to you also how I look at this
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graph and I think to myself how I glad I
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am that I've been willing to experiment
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a lot because the thing that I I think
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is most dangerous in the App Store is
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not being flexible and not trying new
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things and try not moving around because
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they've definitely been times as I've
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gone through this we're like oh my god I
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really want to do that do I not want to
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do that dwell and it's interesting to
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see so clearly that if I had
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and if I'd been stuck on one model if
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I'd said like no this is how I'm gonna
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do sell my software you know it just
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wouldn't have worked like if my revenue
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was just my paid sales number for
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example like if that's what I'd stuck to
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and committed to you know I would be
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consulted at this point almost certainly
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I would or I'd be working you know a
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nine-to-five job somewhere like there
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just is there it would I would not be
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able to live on that near diminishing Li
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small part of the pie now and so by
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being a little bit flexible on that it's
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you know reassuring that like that was
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the right choice because at the end what
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I wanted was to be an independent to be
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able to make you know make that software
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I want to make and then make a living
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from it and to do that it's like this is
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this is what this is what that takes and
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this is what that looks like now I
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suppose yeah I mean you know if you look
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at your graph the one that's not like a
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hundred percent graph but the one that's
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just like a pure spiky graph it's it's
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interesting to note that like you
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basically are making a pretty similar
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salary steadily since about 2013 and if
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you subtract the advertising from that
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you see what I think most developers
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have seen since 2013 which is a slowly
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declining curve and and a lot of sadness
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as things decline and seemingly can't
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get back up so really which were you
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know I think which we're gonna talk a
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little more about it seems like
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advertising is kind of not maybe not
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saved you but certainly has been a
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massive part of your success over the
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last few years and it seems like that is
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the kind of the missing part that a lot
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of us Indies have not had over the last
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few years to keep it steady you know
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instead we only have those paid sale and
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maybe if we're lucky in our purchase
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sales like what you have but they have
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about the same shape that your graph has
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which is everything's getting harder and
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harder and harder and money's just
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getting lower and lower over time and
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the willingness to experiment is
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literally what's making your business
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now because you know you can experiment
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with different apps but if everyone
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experiments with different apps but only
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one or two payment models you're missing
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out and part of the experimentation like
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you know in this in your case
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experimenting with ads and various and I
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purchase schemes has really helped you
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a bit over anybody who just tried to
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sell an app for a few bucks and hope
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that it works because that can work but
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it's certainly a lot harder to make that
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work and I think over time it's working
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less yeah I think it speaks to also
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something that I've found that's like an
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unintended benefit of advertising for me
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is the reliability of the income that it
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gives and that's certainly not to say
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that it's always been this like it's not
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the same day-to-day and advertising is
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notorious for especially the first day
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of a new financial quarter and
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especially the first day of a new year
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falling off cliffs because everyone's ad
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budgets kind of a big a you know they
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spend them up and then you get to the
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end of the month day and if a quarter
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and they're like oh no we got all this
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money let's just spend it and your rates
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go up nicely and then the first you know
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like you get you hit that January
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February March and then all of a sudden
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like if they just falls off so it's not
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like it's completely reliable and once
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you've been through one of those crazy
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cliffs once or twice you kind of know
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what you're looking for looking at but I
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find fascinating is on a day to day
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basis these my sales income from paid
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things where I'm relying on somebody to
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open their wallet and hand me and me $2
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the variability I found between that is
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is it always been way higher than from
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advertising base and I think it's
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largely because advertising is
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functionally a measure it's like this
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rough measure of the engagement of users
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in my application you know how many
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times they're opening it how long
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they're opening it like it's that
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overall usage number and the that number
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is very stable to a certain point that
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you know you hope you had your app has a
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I guess it brings on more users than it
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loses as you go you know suit that you
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want you need those downloads at the
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beginning and then you have some kind of
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retention over time that you know some
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people will stop using your app and then
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they're replaced hopefully by new people
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and if that number is gradually working
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its way up in order for your income to
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go down like obviously the rates can
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drop which sometimes happens but usually
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they're fairly stable and so as a result
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your income just becomes fairly flat
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because it's only increasing or
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decreasing by the very slow adjustments
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from the amount of new users you get
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in the numbered users that you're losing
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and so if you have a big spike in new
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users it's like yay that won't actually
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make a big difference to your revenue
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that day though it's like it that read
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that ripped that spike gets averaged out
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over the next you know a few months as
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your daily active sessions or whatever
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the right measure would be slowly works
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its way up and you know say you make a
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change and people don't like it and they
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leave the app it's like that'll likely
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I'll be offset and the same thing like
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that that it's a gradual decline and
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that as a develop as an independent as
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somebody who makes you like who pays my
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mortgage with my app revenue that is so
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reassuring that if this feeling that I
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don't have to check my sales report
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every day and worry that you know it's
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like it is has this been a good weekend
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has this like for a while had apps that
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would do really well on Sundays and you
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know I'd have a sometimes I'd have a
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Sunday where it's something like my
00:12:04
◼
►
sales just wouldn't be what they were
00:12:05
◼
►
and it's like whoa like there goes 15%
00:12:08
◼
►
of my weekly revenue because it was a
00:12:11
◼
►
holiday or because there was an issue on
00:12:14
◼
►
the app store and payments weren't
00:12:15
◼
►
processing for a few hours which is
00:12:17
◼
►
something that's happened before and you
00:12:19
◼
►
look at those whoa this is really scary
00:12:21
◼
►
at least with advertising and that kind
00:12:23
◼
►
of a model and you'd say in some ways
00:12:25
◼
►
subscriptions have a similar kind of
00:12:26
◼
►
feel to them but it's lovely to have the
00:12:29
◼
►
sense of these slow and slow increases
00:12:32
◼
►
and slow decreases over time rather than
00:12:34
◼
►
these huge spikes that are up and down
00:12:36
◼
►
which are just so stressful our sponsor
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this week is Linode go to lynda.com
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deploy boot and resize your virtual
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server with just a few clicks let me
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tell you one thing so I use Linode and
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you use OneNote
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I've used them for a very long time now
00:13:20
◼
►
and one of the things that they just
00:13:22
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mentioned here in the script they're
00:13:23
◼
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resizing I had to do that recently and I
00:13:26
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thought for sure I mean as an old
00:13:29
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►
computer user I thought there is no
00:13:31
◼
►
chance resizing a disk partition is
00:13:33
◼
►
going to work it's just there's no
00:13:35
◼
►
chance for that so I tried it first on a
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◼
►
server that didn't matter very much and
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you have to power down the server to do
00:13:42
◼
►
it but then it just kind of happens and
00:13:45
◼
►
then you power the server back up and
00:13:47
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it's fine and you it's just there you
00:13:49
◼
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don't have to like remap your disk or
00:13:51
◼
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reef repartition things it just works
00:13:53
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and I've now I was so blown away by how
00:13:55
◼
►
well it worked I've now done that on
00:13:57
◼
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like five or six occasions on some very
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important servers including all of my
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databases now and it worked perfectly
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the fact that can resize it is I know
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that you know maybe this sounds crazy to
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like young people who have always used
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amazing services like this but I never
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thought that would work and the Fed has
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it works amazingly it's just one of the
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many reasons why I'm very happy Linode
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customer anyway so they have
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industry-leading native SSD storage on
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their on their machines they're very
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very fast especially for the price they
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have a 40 gigabit network access there
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they have all the power and access that
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off thank you very much to Linode for
00:14:49
◼
►
supporting this show all right so we've
00:14:51
◼
►
been talking about ads and your
00:14:54
◼
►
transition to a diversified income
00:14:56
◼
►
stream that includes ads in your apps
00:14:58
◼
►
and this got me thinking a while back
00:15:02
◼
►
you know maybe I should try ads in
00:15:05
◼
►
overcast because the problem I was
00:15:08
◼
►
facing so I wrote this big blog post
00:15:11
◼
►
kind of explaining all this in more
00:15:12
◼
►
detail but overcast has had you know
00:15:16
◼
►
three business models now though the
00:15:18
◼
►
first year roughly it was you know I
00:15:21
◼
►
always wanted to be free upfront because
00:15:23
◼
►
I have a lot of reasons why I want this
00:15:26
◼
►
why basically market share is more
00:15:28
◼
►
important to me than total revenue for
00:15:30
◼
►
this app I really want max
00:15:32
◼
►
market share and I'll try to get enough
00:15:34
◼
►
revenue somehow once I have that so I
00:15:36
◼
►
have the very first year I have you know
00:15:39
◼
►
free upfront and you get some of the
00:15:41
◼
►
features but you don't really get the
00:15:43
◼
►
best features things like smart speed
00:15:45
◼
►
and voice boost and like full playlists
00:15:47
◼
►
and everything like it was pretty
00:15:48
◼
►
limited and it was really annoying with
00:15:50
◼
►
with like how much in the app it was
00:15:51
◼
►
limited it basically it was not a very
00:15:54
◼
►
good app in this limited state and yet
00:15:57
◼
►
the vast majority of my users were using
00:15:59
◼
►
it in that state because most people
00:16:01
◼
►
didn't buy the one-time $5 an app
00:16:03
◼
►
purchase to unlock the cool stuff so
00:16:07
◼
►
trying to combat that problem about a
00:16:09
◼
►
year ago I switched to every feature was
00:16:12
◼
►
free and you just pay me what you want
00:16:15
◼
►
basically I did a monthly subscription a
00:16:19
◼
►
dollar a month and you could buy it
00:16:20
◼
►
ahead as long as you wanted it was not
00:16:22
◼
►
renewing it was the you know the old
00:16:23
◼
►
kind of solution where it doesn't auto
00:16:25
◼
►
renew so you basically just you know buy
00:16:27
◼
►
it for five years if you wanted to give
00:16:28
◼
►
me a bunch of money or just buy it for
00:16:29
◼
►
three months if you wanted to try it out
00:16:31
◼
►
but you didn't get anything for that and
00:16:33
◼
►
I was kind of banking on people's
00:16:35
◼
►
goodwill and it did work just not enough
00:16:38
◼
►
it it did work enough to get me a little
00:16:42
◼
►
over like I think just about one and a
00:16:45
◼
►
half percent or so or two percent
00:16:47
◼
►
roughly of of users to actually pay and
00:16:51
◼
►
subscribe but that was not really enough
00:16:54
◼
►
to really bring in meaningful revenue
00:16:56
◼
►
over time so instead I switched about
00:17:00
◼
►
six months ago I added a couple of
00:17:03
◼
►
features that had been very highly
00:17:04
◼
►
requested the main main one of which was
00:17:06
◼
►
dark mode a whole dark theme of the app
00:17:09
◼
►
i out of that too the app a that six
00:17:11
◼
►
months ago and that I added it only for
00:17:13
◼
►
people who were paying the voluntary
00:17:15
◼
►
patronage and that was weird for a
00:17:17
◼
►
number of reasons I mean first of all
00:17:19
◼
►
now it's still called patronage but now
00:17:22
◼
►
you get perks and so that's a little bit
00:17:24
◼
►
odd a lot of people have ejected to the
00:17:26
◼
►
terminology there and I understand why
00:17:29
◼
►
and then a lot of people are mad because
00:17:32
◼
►
people who had bought the original
00:17:34
◼
►
five-dollar unlock everything purchased
00:17:36
◼
►
the year earlier were very mad that here
00:17:38
◼
►
was a new feature that they did not get
00:17:40
◼
►
they were extremely mad and I heard from
00:17:42
◼
►
them constantly even literally for the
00:17:44
◼
►
last six months like it never stopped I
00:17:46
◼
►
from them and so I don't want to make my
00:17:47
◼
►
early customers so mad and then and then
00:17:51
◼
►
the final problem was even that while it
00:17:53
◼
►
did provide a nice bump to the number of
00:17:55
◼
►
people who were paying it didn't provide
00:17:57
◼
►
enough of a bump to make it really a
00:17:59
◼
►
sustainable good income so I could
00:18:02
◼
►
sustain the service on that just barely
00:18:03
◼
►
but but I really need more to to both do
00:18:08
◼
►
what I want to do with it and to justify
00:18:10
◼
►
pouring a lot a lot of my time into it
00:18:12
◼
►
rather than having to start exploring
00:18:13
◼
►
new projects so I decided ads were worth
00:18:18
◼
►
a try because as you said like ads make
00:18:21
◼
►
a lot of sense now you know there's a
00:18:23
◼
►
reason why so much that we that we
00:18:26
◼
►
consume and use in today's technology
00:18:28
◼
►
world is ad funded there's a big reason
00:18:31
◼
►
for that and that is that you know you
00:18:34
◼
►
basically anybody can use everything
00:18:36
◼
►
they want for free you just have to
00:18:38
◼
►
tolerate these ads and most people don't
00:18:41
◼
►
mind ads you know I don't know anybody
00:18:43
◼
►
who loves ads but most people don't mind
00:18:45
◼
►
like they know people will give will
00:18:48
◼
►
take that trade off if the trade off is
00:18:50
◼
►
I would rather not pay but I'll take ads
00:18:53
◼
►
or you can pay and then you won't see
00:18:56
◼
►
ads most people will choose the the add
00:18:58
◼
►
option there because they don't want to
00:19:00
◼
►
pay and that's fine it seemed to make a
00:19:02
◼
►
lot of sense the the the main risk to
00:19:05
◼
►
this was of course that here I had this
00:19:08
◼
►
app that is very well regarded by a lot
00:19:11
◼
►
of people very it's used by a lot of
00:19:13
◼
►
people many of whom were very strongly
00:19:14
◼
►
opinionated and it looks you know had a
00:19:17
◼
►
good design you know has it has a good
00:19:19
◼
►
design it looks nice and a lot of people
00:19:22
◼
►
were going to see me triads and I've had
00:19:24
◼
►
various opinions of ads over the years
00:19:26
◼
►
and again I I don't love them either but
00:19:29
◼
►
I consider them kind of the the
00:19:30
◼
►
acceptable trade-off for what we're
00:19:32
◼
►
doing here so I was very very scared to
00:19:36
◼
►
release this this was this was the most
00:19:38
◼
►
nervous I've ever been about really seen
00:19:40
◼
►
anything since I've done a 1.0 and I
00:19:42
◼
►
released it and overall the the reaction
00:19:46
◼
►
was better than I expected it was it's
00:19:49
◼
►
not great I wouldn't say it's a great
00:19:51
◼
►
reaction but I would say it's a lot less
00:19:54
◼
►
horrible than I was predicting and that
00:19:56
◼
►
I was prepared for my star rating is in
00:20:00
◼
►
this was the this is the first time
00:20:02
◼
►
overcast has ever had a star rating
00:20:04
◼
►
below four-and-a-half I believe now I'm
00:20:06
◼
►
at two and a half something like that
00:20:08
◼
►
so my ratings destroyed and that's gonna
00:20:10
◼
►
hurt me a lot I hope that's only
00:20:12
◼
►
temporary we will find out I'm getting a
00:20:14
◼
►
lot of angry emails and tweets and lots
00:20:17
◼
►
of them lots of people who are not very
00:20:20
◼
►
kind about about this change but on the
00:20:23
◼
►
other hand I've gotten a whole lot of
00:20:24
◼
►
people who are totally ok with it and
00:20:27
◼
►
like that there's no longer this weird
00:20:29
◼
►
difference between like special features
00:20:32
◼
►
that patrons get and you know and this
00:20:35
◼
►
weird terminology of patron eggs that
00:20:38
◼
►
even though it is also including special
00:20:40
◼
►
features so now I simplified things so
00:20:44
◼
►
now you have these ads and if you don't
00:20:46
◼
►
want to see ads and then down the road I
00:20:48
◼
►
might add a few little things here but
00:20:49
◼
►
if you don't want to see ads you can buy
00:20:51
◼
►
the annual subscription which is a new
00:20:53
◼
►
Auto renewing kind and it's just called
00:20:55
◼
►
overcast premium so no more like patron
00:20:57
◼
►
eggs wording like you know no more
00:20:59
◼
►
messing with ideas of you know goodwill
00:21:02
◼
►
or charity over in that area because
00:21:05
◼
►
that was as I said problematic for a lot
00:21:06
◼
►
of people now it's just called premium
00:21:09
◼
►
you pay ten bucks a year you get ads
00:21:10
◼
►
this is a simplification even from the
00:21:13
◼
►
previous subscriptions they were a
00:21:15
◼
►
dollar a month so it was twelve dollars
00:21:17
◼
►
a year if you paid annually this is even
00:21:19
◼
►
cheaper ten ten dollars a year because
00:21:21
◼
►
it's nice and simple you know and I even
00:21:24
◼
►
adjusted on all the different currencies
00:21:25
◼
►
around the world so that like a lot of
00:21:26
◼
►
the Euro based ones we're gonna be like
00:21:28
◼
►
ten fifty euro and I said now just you
00:21:31
◼
►
know $9.99 is fine or 10 even whatever
00:21:33
◼
►
it is so made it very simple much
00:21:36
◼
►
clearer wording and a much honestly
00:21:38
◼
►
simpler business model there's ads in
00:21:40
◼
►
the app if you want to get rid of them
00:21:41
◼
►
you pay me ten bucks a year the the
00:21:44
◼
►
amazing thing about this is that I get
00:21:46
◼
►
recurring revenue from anybody who's
00:21:48
◼
►
actually using the app so I'm getting it
00:21:50
◼
►
somewhere whether it's the ad or whether
00:21:52
◼
►
it's subscriptions I'm getting recurring
00:21:53
◼
►
revenue from usage and it's exactly what
00:21:55
◼
►
you said earlier David it's like you
00:21:57
◼
►
know I'm incentivized to keep people
00:22:00
◼
►
using the app and to make the app good
00:22:02
◼
►
enough the people keep coming back and
00:22:04
◼
►
using it I don't I know longer have an
00:22:06
◼
►
incentive of like what am I gonna do to
00:22:08
◼
►
push people over the over like the next
00:22:10
◼
►
big version or what kind of crazy
00:22:12
◼
►
features can I come up with that'll make
00:22:14
◼
►
pay and you know anger everybody else
00:22:16
◼
►
like I really have to make the app
00:22:18
◼
►
better now and as long as I do that I
00:22:20
◼
►
make money from everybody who uses it
00:22:23
◼
►
and it's not like a massive amount more
00:22:25
◼
►
money but it is more and and the ads you
00:22:29
◼
►
know it's a little early to say how well
00:22:30
◼
►
the ads are working because it's only
00:22:31
◼
►
been a few days since I've had them in
00:22:32
◼
►
but even in these few days I've gotten a
00:22:35
◼
►
ton of more of more subscriptions it's
00:22:39
◼
►
not you know I haven't like doubled or
00:22:41
◼
►
anything and but that might happen who
00:22:43
◼
►
knows I haven't doubled yet but I
00:22:45
◼
►
certainly have a lot more subscribe or
00:22:47
◼
►
subscribers these are also now all in
00:22:50
◼
►
the new apple autumn renewing system so
00:22:51
◼
►
that means a year from now if they still
00:22:53
◼
►
subscribe I will get 85 percent instead
00:22:55
◼
►
of 70 percent from them which is a big
00:22:57
◼
►
and the ads are kind of making up the
00:23:00
◼
►
difference of you know trying to give me
00:23:03
◼
►
some money for everyone who's not a
00:23:05
◼
►
subscriber and you know right now the
00:23:07
◼
►
amount of money the ads are making is
00:23:08
◼
►
fairly modest but you know it's still
00:23:10
◼
►
very early and I still could experiment
00:23:12
◼
►
with different placements of the ad
00:23:14
◼
►
different formats of ads things like
00:23:16
◼
►
that and I think it's ended up working
00:23:20
◼
►
out the I mean I'm going to have to
00:23:22
◼
►
figure out how the heck to make
00:23:23
◼
►
everybody happy enough to stop giving me
00:23:24
◼
►
1 star reviews and sending me nasty
00:23:26
◼
►
emails because my star rating is as I
00:23:28
◼
►
mentioned down from four and a half to
00:23:30
◼
►
two and a half with a very large volume
00:23:34
◼
►
so I don't know about that but the rest
00:23:36
◼
►
of it seems to be working ok sure and
00:23:39
◼
►
the reality is - it's the awkward thing
00:23:41
◼
►
of so much of this is coming I think
00:23:43
◼
►
from the change in business model like
00:23:47
◼
►
if this was if the app that you just
00:23:49
◼
►
released were overcast 1.0 I doubt you
00:23:53
◼
►
would have that same negativity because
00:23:55
◼
►
that's just the nature of these things
00:23:57
◼
►
where people are like oh I had this
00:23:59
◼
►
thing it's like you were giving me this
00:24:00
◼
►
great app for free with nothing in with
00:24:02
◼
►
no impingement at all upon me now it's a
00:24:05
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free app that is impinging on me
00:24:07
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slightly by showing me you know ads at
00:24:09
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the tops of some of the lists and so
00:24:12
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that change it's like it feels like
00:24:13
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you've taken something from me which
00:24:15
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we've done really but you know that's
00:24:17
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the way it feels I imagine and so you
00:24:19
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know over time I suppose in some ways
00:24:20
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it's one of the nice things where well
00:24:22
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one day I would love for the App Store
00:24:24
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to do like a rolling average of reviews
00:24:25
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the next time you do an update your
00:24:28
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we'll reset again and you can hopefully
00:24:30
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►
put a lot of these one stars behind you
00:24:32
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►
you know and just sort of go from there
00:24:35
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►
yeah I think that's really you know what
00:24:38
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I'm doing here I mean and a lot of
00:24:41
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people have asked why I why I didn't
00:24:43
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release this as part of a bigger 3.0
00:24:45
◼
►
update and I think the results speak for
00:24:47
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►
themselves if I have leased this as part
00:24:50
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►
of a whole bunch of other features and
00:24:51
◼
►
changes and a big push similar to
00:24:54
◼
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Apple's headphone jack thing the story
00:24:56
◼
►
would have been all about the ads and
00:24:59
◼
►
the star ratings would have been all
00:25:01
◼
►
about the ads and the reviews would be
00:25:02
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►
all about the ads and I feel like that I
00:25:05
◼
►
I'm better off making this transition to
00:25:07
◼
►
ad based now while I'm still in the
00:25:10
◼
►
two-point X series and then when I do a
00:25:12
◼
►
big 3.0 release down the road hopefully
00:25:14
◼
►
not too far down the road but when I do
00:25:16
◼
►
it down the road this story will already
00:25:19
◼
►
include like people who write about
00:25:20
◼
►
overcast people who review or guys
00:25:22
◼
►
people who use overcast will all already
00:25:24
◼
►
know okay this happens I had driven so
00:25:26
◼
►
that that'll be old news you know just
00:25:27
◼
►
like the headphone jack thing and the
00:25:29
◼
►
iPhone this week you know we all knew
00:25:30
◼
►
about it months ago so now it's old news
00:25:32
◼
►
I'm real kind of accepting it and moving
00:25:34
◼
►
on and just evaluating the iPhone on its
00:25:35
◼
►
other merits that's how this is gonna be
00:25:37
◼
►
I think with overcast 3.0 that you know
00:25:39
◼
►
I'm going to be able to now do things
00:25:42
◼
►
freely and and make the app great on its
00:25:45
◼
►
own merits and the story won't won't be
00:25:48
◼
►
just about the ads when I finally launch
00:25:50
◼
►
it and perhaps even more over it seems
00:25:52
◼
►
like imagine no not to speak for you but
00:25:55
◼
►
there's a slightly better incentive for
00:25:56
◼
►
you to really put that work into 3.0
00:25:59
◼
►
because if it if it feels more
00:26:02
◼
►
sustainable and viable it's not like
00:26:04
◼
►
doesn't feel like you're just putting
00:26:05
◼
►
more time after something that kind of
00:26:07
◼
►
is slowly decaying over time that you're
00:26:09
◼
►
just kind of you put all this effort
00:26:11
◼
►
into a 3.0 all these new features all
00:26:13
◼
►
those big updates and then it's like and
00:26:15
◼
►
it's not actually gonna make any
00:26:17
◼
►
difference at the end of the day like
00:26:18
◼
►
you could just leave the app as it is
00:26:19
◼
►
now and hope for the best that is
00:26:21
◼
►
entirely correct I mean I I was really
00:26:23
◼
►
you know not not in a very good
00:26:25
◼
►
psychological place about the app before
00:26:26
◼
►
long stats because revenue was just flat
00:26:29
◼
►
and and flat at not a particularly great
00:26:32
◼
►
level and I didn't really know what else
00:26:33
◼
►
to do it felt hopeless and now I have
00:26:36
◼
►
this big influx of subscribers and I
00:26:38
◼
►
have this nice little kind of side money
00:26:39
◼
►
from the ads
00:26:41
◼
►
and that is amazing and that has a
00:26:43
◼
►
little fire under me now you're totally
00:26:45
◼
►
right it has totally turned around my
00:26:47
◼
►
motivation I'm not thinking of like Oh
00:26:49
◼
►
what other apps could I make to make
00:26:50
◼
►
more money no now I'm just thinking how
00:26:53
◼
►
do I make this even more amazing and I
00:26:55
◼
►
have had an amazingly productive few
00:26:57
◼
►
days since since launching me HAP's
00:26:59
◼
►
arson selection the ads rather of just
00:27:02
◼
►
making the app incredibly better like
00:27:05
◼
►
getting a lot of stuff done on 3.0
00:27:06
◼
►
working through like some navigation
00:27:08
◼
►
changes and making some like custom
00:27:09
◼
►
animations and you know cool stuff like
00:27:11
◼
►
that that that you that you can kind of
00:27:13
◼
►
only do if you're making money or if you
00:27:16
◼
►
if you think you're going to make money
00:27:17
◼
►
I don't have like investing into it not
00:27:19
◼
►
just like bullet point features but like
00:27:21
◼
►
polish and fun new things and rethinking
00:27:25
◼
►
some of the design aspects and and you
00:27:28
◼
►
know I'm making I made the watch app a
00:27:30
◼
►
lot better you know for 3.0 also and now
00:27:32
◼
►
I can think about adding it today widget
00:27:34
◼
►
and all this bogus that now just called
00:27:35
◼
►
widgets all this stuff that I can now do
00:27:37
◼
►
because there's money coming in and at a
00:27:41
◼
►
reasonable rate now that I can I can be
00:27:43
◼
►
relatively assured of its future and and
00:27:46
◼
►
that's something I couldn't say before
00:27:47
◼
►
and and that made me you know honestly
00:27:49
◼
►
quite sad pretty much all all summer as
00:27:52
◼
►
I watched the sales just kind of
00:27:53
◼
►
flattened but now things have turned
00:27:55
◼
►
around and I am kind of on fire now and
00:27:59
◼
►
I'm like plowed through and doing all
00:28:01
◼
►
sorts of great stuff and it feels great
00:28:02
◼
►
and I think in the long run you know
00:28:04
◼
►
even though right now it is quite
00:28:06
◼
►
painful to see my rating go goes so far
00:28:08
◼
►
down the tubes and to get all these
00:28:09
◼
►
angry messages from people but I think
00:28:11
◼
►
long term it will be better for my users
00:28:14
◼
►
overall yeah and I think the thing that
00:28:16
◼
►
I love so much about this change is like
00:28:18
◼
►
you answer with are what they are like
00:28:19
◼
►
you can sometimes I feel like we can
00:28:20
◼
►
moralize about them and get all like
00:28:22
◼
►
fancy about it but at the end of the day
00:28:23
◼
►
they're just a tool for businesses to
00:28:25
◼
►
make money and what I love though is
00:28:27
◼
►
that it lets you like with the things
00:28:29
◼
►
that you're talking about the thing that
00:28:30
◼
►
I love about that is it's allowing you
00:28:32
◼
►
to not have to make this big case of
00:28:35
◼
►
like I always hate the three-point owes
00:28:36
◼
►
that feel like it's like the kitchen
00:28:38
◼
►
it's like everything in the kitchen sink
00:28:39
◼
►
right it's just I have to have these I
00:28:42
◼
►
have I did all my good features in
00:28:43
◼
►
version 1 I can made up some other stuff
00:28:45
◼
►
for version 2 version 3 here's just
00:28:47
◼
►
everything else I could think of is just
00:28:48
◼
►
an assault by feature checklist it's
00:28:50
◼
►
like now you can just say you know I'm
00:28:52
◼
►
just gonna polish I'm just gonna keep
00:28:54
◼
►
polishing this and
00:28:55
◼
►
make it better and better and better
00:28:56
◼
►
because I'm not trying to upsell you on
00:28:59
◼
►
a paid upgrade I'm not trying to do
00:29:00
◼
►
something like that I just want to make
00:29:01
◼
►
the app as like the absolute best it can
00:29:04
◼
►
and that sounds like an awesome place
00:29:06
◼
►
for you to be it really man it feels
00:29:08
◼
►
great I mean you've been here before I'm
00:29:10
◼
►
sure like it feels great and so I'm I'm
00:29:12
◼
►
just so happy to finally kind of be like
00:29:14
◼
►
be back in it again and and to feel good
00:29:16
◼
►
about its financial future again it's
00:29:19
◼
►
awesome all right well here's hoping it
00:29:21
◼
►
goes well and we're out of time this
00:29:23
◼
►
week thank you everybody for listening
00:29:25
◼
►
and we will talk to you next week bye