Under the Radar 36: Should You Release Every App?
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welcome to under the radar a show but
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independent iOS app development I'm
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Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under
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the radar is never longer than 30
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minutes so let's get started so in in
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the absence of much iOS news the suite I
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wanted to talk a little bit about the
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Mac as I mentioned before I've been
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getting slowly into with a couple of
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small utility apps the first one being
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quitter which I launched I don't know a
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month ago something like that and now
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I'm working on a basic podcast
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post-production tool I want to talk a
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little bit about the considerations
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behind selling this mac app potentially
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in the near future
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you know both releasing it to the public
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polishing it up and then whether to
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charge money for it do I sell it in the
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Mac App Store versus non Mac App Store
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do I worry about piracy stuff like that
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the first concern I had is do I want to
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release this app to the public at all
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when you're in the middle of building an
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app and you're like oh this is kind of
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fun you might think you know oh it's
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right now i I've gotten to a point where
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I can use it and it's kind of done for a
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while then you might use it for a while
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you might share with a couple of couple
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of friends something like that and you
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might think okay you know I should
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release this this is useful the
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difference between like the point you're
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at at that at that moment where like you
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have the app working for you and maybe a
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couple hundred people versus something
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that is releasable that's a very very
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wide gap but I learned this when I did
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quitter where I had like this basic
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AppleScript first and then I had this
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basic menu bar app and I thought you
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know other people might find this useful
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I should release this and to get from
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that point to releasable in in a
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responsible and and pleasant and likely
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to succeed way was so much work because
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what you don't realize when when you
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when you have the initial app you don't
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realize that there are like all the edge
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cases that you're not considering that
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because like you don't use them yourself
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edge cases you know we had a whole show
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on edge cases it's there's all the
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education you're considering and the
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standards for what is good enough are
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way lower when it's just you or your
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friends using an app like what's good
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enough with the UI what's good enough
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with input handling with edge case
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handling in general you just need far
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less polish and
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and other stuff like that you that you
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don't even think of at first but that is
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actually that could be a lot of work or
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expense or just a hassle is you know a
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private app for yourself doesn't need a
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public name that doesn't eat a decent
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icon it doesn't need documentation you
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don't need to worry about distribution
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it doesn't need a website doesn't need
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like an auto updater feed stuff like
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that and once you have it working for
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yourself it basically doesn't need any
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maintenance because you know all the
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limitations you avoid them yourself
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and it just it works for you and you
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consider it done if you release to the
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public you have to go through this
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massive polishing stage it seems like oh
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you know this weekend I'll polish it up
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and get it out there in practice it
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usually takes a lot of time like you
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don't you typically underestimate that
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time it's it's not easy or fast and once
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the app goes public people will have
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expectations for it they will start
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emailing you feature requests they will
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expect improvements to all the bugs that
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you didn't find because you didn't hit
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an indie at any of the edge cases and
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what started out as a as a simple idea
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of all you know I've made this happen
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for myself maybe I'll release it that
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can quickly balloon into a much larger
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project like what happened with Twitter
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like there was a lot of temptation that
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like you know quitter as it is right now
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works fine for me but there was
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immediate temptation once I released it
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and started getting all these people
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saying you know oh man this is great
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it'd be even better if it did this or it
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man you could really make this into a
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bigger thing by adding this and it
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quickly became very tempting to take
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this what you--what was this very basic
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little utility app and to try to make it
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its own bigger product but then of
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course like do I have time for that
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bigger product do I want to even be in
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that business like you know I'd start
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competing with us with a whole other
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market or products that frankly I don't
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know anything about I don't know what
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it's like to compete in that market you
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know do I really want to be doing that
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like it's a whole different ballgame
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can I spare the time from my other
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projects that I want to be doing to turn
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this thing into a bigger thing like that
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all the people are asking for that might
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be tempting you know it's a very hard
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balance to find and it can
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so easily get totally out of control
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before you even step back and realize
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wait a minute
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do I even want to be doing this as a Big
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Apple do I want to just keep it as this
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little thing that I spend you know a few
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days on once and then never touch again
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and this is a lesson that I've had to
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learn many many times I have it I have
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the tendency to build anything I can
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think of and several times I've built
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something and put it out into the like I
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get it to that point where you're
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talking about where it's like it's sort
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of done it's useful enough it's kind of
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at that cross that functional threshold
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maybe you'd say done is in the biggest
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quotation marks' ever yeah it's it's
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like it's sort of functional maybe is a
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better word than yes and I'm like okay
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maybe I'll release this mail put this
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out in the store maybe I'll like it's
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maybe other people would find it useful
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the thing that I find well that I now
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have maybe it might be a bit strong to
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call it the wisdom but I've been caught
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up with it enough times to know that
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there's a difference in the way you
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approach building something if you're
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building it as a product versus if
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you're building it just as like on a
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lark just a little hobby project a
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little experimentation or a prototype
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something like that you have to be more
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thoughtful you have to think about how
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it's going to be used and what even even
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answering questions for you know what is
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a typical user going to be and
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optimizing it for them and sometimes
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it's great if you are the typical user I
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suppose but if you're not then you know
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it gets starts to get really squishy and
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tricky to make sure that you're actually
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building a product that other people
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would know how to use and you know I
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have many utilities and things that I've
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never released but I use myself or at
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least what off perhaps moreover what
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will happen is I'll build something use
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it for myself for a long time and then
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take like the lesson learned from using
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it and turn it into an act you know fold
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that into a product but the actual
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product part is going to be very
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different like necessarily and so it's
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definitely a tricky thing to look at
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something and say do I actually want
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this to exist
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outside of my own use or at least you
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know my close friends or family you know
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like there's a couple of apps or tools
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that I use that you know I like I put
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only exist on my wife and my phone and
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that's fine like they don't have to be
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products they can just be things
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honestly what is that number I'm here
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it's probably a lot
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it's only a handful I mean most people
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that number of zeros so like sure it's
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it's greater than zero and a lot of
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these things I guess I said are it's the
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it's fighting the temptation to anytime
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you have an idea to rush it out to
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market versus trying to use it yourself
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for a while and seeing if it actually is
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something so a lot of times when I these
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probably's things will ultimately end up
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being a product that or will be a part
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of bigger product but they start life is
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just things to keep closed because I
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used to rush things out I mean that's
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part of why I ended up with the problem
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of having dozens and dozens of apps in
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the App Store because any time I had an
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idea I'd build it I put it out and in to
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start with I had the mindset of well if
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I like you never know what's gonna be a
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hit maybe I should just always push
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things out and let the market tell me if
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it's useful or cool there we have the
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problem with that is like what if the
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market tells me that what I'm doing is
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like useful and cool but in a different
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very different way or look at a very
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different slant then I want to actually
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use or build a product for then I'm kind
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of like stuck into that and also I guess
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there's a really weird thing of like is
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it reasonable to put something out that
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I don't have expectations to support for
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example or like what level of support do
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I expect to provide for something you
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know is this just if it's just something
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I built on a lark and put it and put out
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into the world it's you know you
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there's always especial if you put it
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into like in you know into the App Store
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or something like that then there's a
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certain expectation I think that people
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naturally have for what they should get
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from that and so it definitely makes
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sense for as you're going through this
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process of you know do I want this thing
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that I find useful to actually exist in
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the world to make sure you have a good
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answer to that that do I want to support
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this do I want to chase down the various
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bugs and issues that people are having
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are people going to use this in a
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professional context for example where
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problem there's potentially financial
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implications or more serious things that
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could go wrong you know in quitter
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if it doesn't quit Twitter for somebody
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that's probably not a big deal but if it
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if you're doing an app that could have a
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bigger implication if it goes wrong like
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there's some weird more like liability
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type of questions that you have to be
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comfortable with before you move forward
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into an act and to into you know broader
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distribution exactly and and all those
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you know all the problems of are you
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willing to support this and are you
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ready to support it all those things
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really do apply whether it's free or
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paid although I will say though whether
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you charge money at all makes a big
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difference in the type of expectations
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and entitlement that your customers will
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feel to things like you know quality
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like if somebody pays for an app they're
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certainly going to expect you know it
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better be good you know a better work
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and have good features it also better
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not crash or have bugs that they can
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notice you know they expect you to
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support it ongoing you know with updates
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with maintenance and also as you
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mentioned support you know if people
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paid for an app even if they only paid a
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dollar they expect a certain level of
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support I mean heck people expect
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support for free apps but they they
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expect a lot more for paid apps it's not
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proportional to the different like you
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know they don't if they pay the dollar
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versus paying nothing they don't expect
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like $1 more support they expect a lot
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more support psychologically they people
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are very protective of having spent
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money on something and they really get
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angry if it doesn't matter to their
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expectations if they paid even just $1
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for it and the good thing is you know on
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the Mac you can charge more but charging
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more brings on even higher expectations
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so you know if you if you are what I
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would consider like a cheap app so on
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iOS that probably like less than three
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dollars maybe on the Mac I'd say under
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$10 probably that is like one level of
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aspect of expectations of you know
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quality updates support if you charge
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you know what I would call real money
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and and that the the perception of what
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real money is will vary by your market
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but you know I'd say Iowa
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maybe $10 on the Mac maybe $50 if you're
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charging that you know that kind of like
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what people think of as real money you
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will be held to much higher expectations
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like you know if people just paid you
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$10 for your iOS app and it doesn't work
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on the phone they by next month they're
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gonna be mad like they're gonna be real
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and understandably so because they pay
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what they believe is a premium price and
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you better be supporting that if they
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spent $50 in your mac app and they email
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you with a question you don't answer
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that email that's that's gonna look
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really bad for you in their eyes and
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they're gonna get very angry about that
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and so you have to really consider all
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this and then and you know this goes
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back to trying to estimate your market
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if you talked about within the ideas
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episode trying to estimate your market
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of like it given all these all the
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overhead of making a paid app and
00:11:58
◼
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selling a a paid app am I likely to
00:12:00
◼
►
actually get enough copies sold to make
00:12:04
◼
►
enough money from this that it will be
00:12:06
◼
►
worth all that overhead in in my
00:12:08
◼
►
business and in my life and is that
00:12:10
◼
►
really worth it or not and it might be
00:12:12
◼
►
easy to rationalize oh you know I made
00:12:14
◼
►
this app it's kind of useful I should
00:12:15
◼
►
charge you know ten bucks for it or
00:12:16
◼
►
whatever or on iOS I got sharks two
00:12:19
◼
►
bucks for it or whatever by the way that
00:12:20
◼
►
multiple makes me sad but that's the
00:12:21
◼
►
reality but anyways you know there
00:12:24
◼
►
there's a temptation now you know I
00:12:25
◼
►
could charge a few bucks for it make a
00:12:26
◼
►
little bit of money but the reality is
00:12:28
◼
►
making that money charging that's price
00:12:30
◼
►
will have costs to you and you need to
00:12:33
◼
►
make sure that you are being realistic
00:12:35
◼
►
about your expectations of like how many
00:12:37
◼
►
copies aren't really going to sell and
00:12:39
◼
►
is that going to be worth making that
00:12:41
◼
►
you know a few hundred dollars that I
00:12:43
◼
►
might make from this or whatever it
00:12:44
◼
►
might be and if you end up with saying
00:12:46
◼
►
that it's not like then you have the
00:12:48
◼
►
weird questions like well if I make it
00:12:49
◼
►
free then why am I even releasing it
00:12:51
◼
►
like fair enough there's a certain like
00:12:55
◼
►
altruism or like you know being or maybe
00:12:59
◼
►
like a exposure or marketing angles that
00:13:02
◼
►
you could say yeah like long-term
00:13:02
◼
►
reputation marketing kind of things yeah
00:13:05
◼
►
or like those types of or like bigger
00:13:07
◼
►
you know and broader sort of play I mean
00:13:09
◼
►
sort of in the way that overcast is a
00:13:11
◼
►
free app with in-app purchases in it to
00:13:14
◼
►
support its development but it's you
00:13:16
◼
►
know you've said many times that you
00:13:18
◼
►
made it free to try and you know
00:13:20
◼
►
establish it as
00:13:21
◼
►
a big player in the in the space because
00:13:25
◼
►
you had other motivations for that that
00:13:26
◼
►
you wanted the platform to you know stay
00:13:29
◼
►
competitive and open and so that can be
00:13:31
◼
►
worthwhile even though it's not
00:13:33
◼
►
financially the directly of the
00:13:35
◼
►
financial incentive is there but like
00:13:37
◼
►
there is a weird thing or you'll end up
00:13:38
◼
►
with people away like well then why
00:13:39
◼
►
don't you just open source it it's like
00:13:41
◼
►
well then you kind of have two problems
00:13:42
◼
►
like you have like you have the source
00:13:44
◼
►
code and developer problem as well as
00:13:46
◼
►
the the customer facing problem and you
00:13:49
◼
►
have to manage and deal with those types
00:13:51
◼
►
of things that it gets really
00:13:54
◼
►
complicated to a point that you have to
00:13:56
◼
►
decide like why am I doing this and you
00:13:58
◼
►
have a good answer like a good concise
00:14:00
◼
►
answer for like why would I want this to
00:14:02
◼
►
exist in the world and if you have a
00:14:04
◼
►
good answer awesome if you don't maybe
00:14:07
◼
►
it's not worth doing our sponsor this
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powerful and easy to use monitoring
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performance of your server database or
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website is a breeze they use more than
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70 global test servers that emulate
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visits to your site checking its
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you can check all sorts of things you
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can check the whole site you can check
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certain parts of it things like
00:14:47
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e-commerce checkouts contact forms login
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search and they make it possible to
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monitor all these things with
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performance metrics uptime reports and
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all sorts of customization of how you
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can customize the requests and what kind
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of things they're looking for what kind
00:15:01
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of requirements if you need to require
00:15:03
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certain strings in the page it is
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incredibly useful and Pingdom detects
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tons of outages for their customers more
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than 400,000 a day you probably need
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Pingdom in your life if you've run any
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kind of service or website so regardless
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of whether you have a small website or
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you're managing a big infrastructure it
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is very important to monitor its
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performance all Pingdom needs is the URL
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that need that you want to monitor and
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they take care of the rest
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when they detect an outage you're
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alerted in lots of customisable ways but
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more importantly you're lured quickly so
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you can fix the error
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for the downtime affects you and your
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customers any further you don't want to
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be caught out when somebody wants to
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access your site and all of a sudden
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it's down and you don't want to be
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hearing from people on Twitter saying
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it's down you need to know that first so
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something like eight years and I love
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them they're great thank you very much
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to ping them for sponsoring our show
00:16:08
◼
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all right so assuming that you have
00:16:11
◼
►
decided that you want to release your
00:16:12
◼
►
app and that you want to charge money
00:16:14
◼
►
for it and and that it's a Mac app so
00:16:17
◼
►
you know iOS that's a whole third pocket
00:16:19
◼
►
we'll talk about that I know the shows
00:16:20
◼
►
supposed you want to charge money for a
00:16:22
◼
►
Mac app how do you do that and where do
00:16:25
◼
►
the most obvious first choice is the Mac
00:16:28
◼
►
App Store the Mac App Store though you
00:16:30
◼
►
know as as we know by now the Mac App
00:16:33
◼
►
Store is a mixed bag you know like like
00:16:35
◼
►
the iOS App Store it builds a big wall
00:16:38
◼
►
between you and your customers and this
00:16:40
◼
►
has some benefits and some downsides the
00:16:43
◼
►
obvious benefits are that you don't need
00:16:44
◼
►
to deal with things like basic
00:16:46
◼
►
distribution of versions updates and the
00:16:49
◼
►
big thing you don't deal with payment
00:16:50
◼
►
and those are those are all substantial
00:16:53
◼
►
gains that you don't have to deal with
00:16:54
◼
►
because those are all complicated to
00:16:56
◼
►
different degrees I think payment being
00:16:58
◼
►
the perfect the most complicated not
00:16:59
◼
►
having to deal with that is is a huge
00:17:01
◼
►
win it also kind of acts as a support
00:17:05
◼
►
wall between you and your customers like
00:17:07
◼
►
your customers might not contact you
00:17:09
◼
►
directly they might like go to the Mac
00:17:11
◼
►
App Store for that contact thing or they
00:17:12
◼
►
might just blame Apple or blame the App
00:17:14
◼
►
Store or whatever else if people have
00:17:16
◼
►
problems and that's yeah probably it's
00:17:19
◼
►
probably a good thing in the immediate
00:17:21
◼
►
term if you don't think about too much
00:17:22
◼
►
but in the long term it's probably a bad
00:17:23
◼
►
thing buying from the store though a lot
00:17:26
◼
►
of people prefer it it reduces issues
00:17:29
◼
►
around things like trust you know if
00:17:31
◼
►
people don't really trust you or you
00:17:32
◼
►
don't seem legitimate or large they
00:17:35
◼
►
might have trouble giving you money
00:17:36
◼
►
whereas they tend to not have those
00:17:38
◼
►
problems in the app stores and of course
00:17:40
◼
►
it's easier for people to install stuff
00:17:42
◼
►
from the app store usually when it works
00:17:43
◼
►
if they don't have to fish out their
00:17:45
◼
►
license key or anything like that so
00:17:46
◼
►
like many customers do prefer
00:17:49
◼
►
buying from the AppStore and that is not
00:17:50
◼
►
to be underestimated but for those
00:17:54
◼
►
benefits with the Mac App Store you pay
00:17:58
◼
►
it is incredibly inflexible on pricing
00:18:01
◼
►
models distribution update stuff like
00:18:03
◼
►
that no there's no trials no paid
00:18:04
◼
►
upgrades there's a lot of rules you also
00:18:07
◼
►
have to go through a preview and to
00:18:08
◼
►
enforce a lot of these rules and you
00:18:10
◼
►
have to be sandboxed and these are all
00:18:12
◼
►
pretty major restrictions for a lot of
00:18:15
◼
►
Mac app businesses a lot of apps just
00:18:17
◼
►
can't be sold to the App Store for some
00:18:19
◼
►
of those requirements and a lot of them
00:18:21
◼
►
maybe could be but it would be unwise
00:18:22
◼
►
for them to be sold to the store and it
00:18:24
◼
►
would be bad business for them the
00:18:27
◼
►
biggest thing to me is is well the two
00:18:30
◼
►
biggest things to me you you definitely
00:18:32
◼
►
have less access and knowledge about
00:18:35
◼
►
your customers and so you it's harder to
00:18:37
◼
►
do things like build an email list for
00:18:40
◼
►
you know new releases and stuff like
00:18:41
◼
►
that and it's harder to like offer
00:18:42
◼
►
certain people just can't things like
00:18:44
◼
►
that and mostly to me they take a 30%
00:18:48
◼
►
cut and 30% is a lot like it's it's easy
00:18:52
◼
►
if we're you know for those of us who
00:18:54
◼
►
were accustomed to iOS it's easy to
00:18:56
◼
►
forget or two or two not really ever
00:18:58
◼
►
think through like how much is 30%
00:19:00
◼
►
exactly so just to give you an example
00:19:02
◼
►
how much 30% is in practice suppose you
00:19:06
◼
►
make you suppose you have a really good
00:19:07
◼
►
app it makes $50,000 well you made
00:19:10
◼
►
$50,000 what did the app actually make
00:19:12
◼
►
so if you got $50,000 from Apple the app
00:19:15
◼
►
made about seventy one thousand dollars
00:19:17
◼
►
so you got fifty an Apple guy about 21
00:19:20
◼
►
thousand so Apple got almost half of
00:19:22
◼
►
what you got
00:19:23
◼
►
if you sell outside of an app store
00:19:26
◼
►
which you can't do in iOS really but if
00:19:28
◼
►
you do it on the Mac that 30% cut that
00:19:31
◼
►
is taken by your parent processor goes
00:19:32
◼
►
down to maybe you know three to six
00:19:36
◼
►
percent depending on how you're doing it
00:19:37
◼
►
depending on international support
00:19:39
◼
►
payment provider stuff like that but
00:19:41
◼
►
it's it goes down you know almost order
00:19:43
◼
►
of magnitude from from Apple's cut so in
00:19:47
◼
►
that example just to give you some
00:19:48
◼
►
numbers for your app that you made fifty
00:19:51
◼
►
thousand dollars from an app store you
00:19:52
◼
►
would have made about sixty six thousand
00:19:54
◼
►
dollars from fat spring or sixty nine
00:19:56
◼
►
thousand dollars from strike so these
00:19:58
◼
►
are not small differences thirty percent
00:20:02
◼
►
and if you know if Apple brings that 15%
00:20:06
◼
►
cut to a lot more places that will help
00:20:08
◼
►
a lot 15% is also a lot but it's way
00:20:11
◼
►
more competitive than 30 compared to
00:20:13
◼
►
selling it yourself
00:20:14
◼
►
so the App Store really is you you
00:20:19
◼
►
really you get a lot of benefits for it
00:20:21
◼
►
but you do pay dearly for those benefits
00:20:23
◼
►
in a lot of different ways and for a lot
00:20:26
◼
►
of people it's just not worth it sure
00:20:28
◼
►
and the App Store - is this like it's a
00:20:32
◼
►
weird thing to have the choice in some
00:20:34
◼
►
ways coming from an iOS background where
00:20:36
◼
►
like I just because I have no choice in
00:20:38
◼
►
the matter like if I want to make I owe
00:20:39
◼
►
a software and give it to someone else
00:20:41
◼
►
beyond unless I'm within a big company
00:20:44
◼
►
and I do an enterprise distribution
00:20:45
◼
►
thing like the only option is the iOS
00:20:48
◼
►
App Store so like whatever like I can
00:20:50
◼
►
lobby and encourage Apple to change
00:20:53
◼
►
policies or to make things happen but by
00:20:55
◼
►
and large it's their store their rules I
00:20:57
◼
►
do the best I can because you have the
00:20:59
◼
►
choice on the Mac App Store you really
00:21:02
◼
►
start to see that like the the hurdles
00:21:05
◼
►
and the challenges that that situation
00:21:07
◼
►
creates oh yeah I mean like you know the
00:21:11
◼
►
App Store it's always kind of been like
00:21:12
◼
►
this carrot and stick balance on iOS
00:21:15
◼
►
they don't really need to offer much
00:21:16
◼
►
carrot because the stick is so big like
00:21:18
◼
►
iOS you have to use the App Store period
00:21:20
◼
►
like there's no I mean yes I guess like
00:21:23
◼
►
exists or Cydia however it's pronounced
00:21:25
◼
►
but that's you know not really easy to
00:21:27
◼
►
build businesses they're you know you're
00:21:29
◼
►
basically stuck with the App Store or
00:21:30
◼
►
nothing on iOS on the Mac you know and
00:21:33
◼
►
even Apple like they use they used to
00:21:34
◼
►
tie major features to the App Store like
00:21:36
◼
►
like iCloud and they just announced WC
00:21:39
◼
►
this year these features are coming to
00:21:41
◼
►
other apps you don't have to be in the
00:21:42
◼
►
App Store anymore so it seems like on
00:21:44
◼
►
the Mac Apple has recently kind of
00:21:46
◼
►
shifted away from keeping much of a
00:21:50
◼
►
stick around there so now they're
00:21:51
◼
►
relying only on the carrot of like you
00:21:53
◼
►
know what are the benefits of being in
00:21:55
◼
►
the Mac App Store so now you kind of
00:21:56
◼
►
look at it purely on business terms and
00:21:58
◼
►
I don't think the Mac App Store is a
00:22:00
◼
►
very appealing place for for new
00:22:02
◼
►
businesses to go these days even the the
00:22:05
◼
►
promotional value I think has proven to
00:22:07
◼
►
be fairly minimal in actual installation
00:22:09
◼
►
numbers from featured apps so it's
00:22:12
◼
►
unfortunate because I would have been
00:22:13
◼
►
nice if it worked better but it does
00:22:16
◼
►
has both failed in a way that it's most
00:22:18
◼
►
likely to be elected forever and and
00:22:21
◼
►
that most developers shouldn't go there
00:22:22
◼
►
anymore because I think the thing that I
00:22:25
◼
►
think of we're like why why would I use
00:22:27
◼
►
the Mac App Store like if I since I now
00:22:29
◼
►
have this choice like I can decide if I
00:22:31
◼
►
want to go this is like a or B or both
00:22:33
◼
►
like which obviously you can also do you
00:22:35
◼
►
can sell in both places but say I'm
00:22:38
◼
►
going to be in the half store like in my
00:22:40
◼
►
mind the main reason on the Mac App
00:22:42
◼
►
Store that I would want to be there and
00:22:43
◼
►
this is speaking mostly just as a
00:22:45
◼
►
customer for like why do want when do I
00:22:47
◼
►
launch the App Store app on my Mac is
00:22:51
◼
►
usually it's like if I have a very
00:22:53
◼
►
specific utility or tool in mind yeah
00:22:56
◼
►
we'll go and search in the Mac App Store
00:22:58
◼
►
first and I do that mostly just because
00:23:01
◼
►
I have it anyway it has that sense of
00:23:03
◼
►
being curated that somebody else they
00:23:06
◼
►
like a impartial you know to some
00:23:09
◼
►
definition of impartial third party has
00:23:11
◼
►
looked at this application and said it
00:23:13
◼
►
meets a basic set of criteria don't
00:23:15
◼
►
worry it's not going you're not
00:23:17
◼
►
installing malware you're not installing
00:23:20
◼
►
sort of something that doesn't actually
00:23:22
◼
►
do what it says it's it has this basic
00:23:26
◼
►
level of criteria so if I can find a
00:23:27
◼
►
tool you know I'm just trying to do
00:23:29
◼
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something that do some random operation
00:23:30
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that I need a utility for I'll go to the
00:23:33
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Mac App Store and if I find it great
00:23:35
◼
►
I'll get it from there if not you know
00:23:37
◼
►
then I just go to google search around
00:23:39
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in there and find it that way and so the
00:23:42
◼
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main benefit from being in the Mac App
00:23:45
◼
►
Store from my perspective based on my
00:23:47
◼
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own experience is just as a marketing
00:23:49
◼
►
tool just as being in the place that you
00:23:53
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►
know there's a non and significant
00:23:55
◼
►
number of people who may go there and
00:23:57
◼
►
look and so it's like being on that
00:23:58
◼
►
shelf is useful but if you're trying to
00:24:03
◼
►
build a business that you know you're
00:24:05
◼
►
making your living from something Mac
00:24:07
◼
►
App Store on its own is unlikely to be
00:24:09
◼
►
the right answer my guess is you're
00:24:12
◼
►
gonna want to be at least in both if not
00:24:15
◼
►
go here go your own and because once
00:24:18
◼
►
you've gone down the road of doing it
00:24:20
◼
►
your own you can start to realize a lot
00:24:22
◼
►
of benefits and both in terms of like
00:24:23
◼
►
you were saying in terms of the costs
00:24:25
◼
►
and the money you can make as well as
00:24:29
◼
►
so much more flexibility about how
00:24:32
◼
►
you're never you're never stuck in the
00:24:34
◼
►
situation of like oh I need to get this
00:24:36
◼
►
you know this update the spokes update
00:24:38
◼
►
through app review even though I purview
00:24:40
◼
►
is great and down to like you know a day
00:24:42
◼
►
or so now it's still a day is the longer
00:24:45
◼
►
than you know one minute from now it'll
00:24:47
◼
►
be available on my CDN and that's kind
00:24:51
◼
►
of nice oh yeah and and just the
00:24:53
◼
►
flexibility you gotta do yourself I mean
00:24:55
◼
►
you know the downside is you have to
00:24:57
◼
►
build it yourself and and there are
00:24:58
◼
►
different degrees of building yourself
00:25:00
◼
►
like if you use something like fast
00:25:02
◼
►
spring or digital River
00:25:04
◼
►
formally accelerate or Kagi like the
00:25:07
◼
►
these things they they charge you know a
00:25:10
◼
►
little bit more percentage like a few
00:25:11
◼
►
more percentage points than like direct
00:25:13
◼
►
credit card processing from stripe or
00:25:14
◼
►
somewhere like that but they take care
00:25:15
◼
►
of a lot of the just payment complexity
00:25:18
◼
►
for you and you basically just provide
00:25:20
◼
►
serial numbers and you will have some
00:25:23
◼
►
support costs from these things you'll
00:25:25
◼
►
have some issues but probably fewer you
00:25:27
◼
►
know from Dilbert I talk to there's
00:25:28
◼
►
probably fewer of those than from from
00:25:30
◼
►
most places and so it seemed like a very
00:25:33
◼
►
good balance to use the servers like
00:25:34
◼
►
this versus like Mac App Store or
00:25:36
◼
►
totally doing yourself because you only
00:25:38
◼
►
pay a little bit more and and you know
00:25:41
◼
►
that doing it yourself and you get a lot
00:25:42
◼
►
so that's probably going to try first
00:25:44
◼
►
you know something maybe I was looking
00:25:46
◼
►
at faster bring earlier probably them
00:25:47
◼
►
and then you know because you can always
00:25:48
◼
►
change later with these things like with
00:25:50
◼
►
it's it's very it's harder to move in or
00:25:53
◼
►
out of the Mac App Store if you change
00:25:55
◼
►
your mind later if you need to change
00:25:56
◼
►
later but these kind of services it's
00:25:58
◼
►
pretty easy to move between so the costs
00:26:00
◼
►
of trying went out are pretty low so I
00:26:02
◼
►
want to talk briefly about piracy
00:26:04
◼
►
concerns because this is something like
00:26:06
◼
►
you don't really have to think about an
00:26:08
◼
►
iOS much because an iOS like I mean
00:26:11
◼
►
there is iOS piracy certainly but it's
00:26:13
◼
►
limited almost completely jailbreak
00:26:15
◼
►
community and and you don't really it's
00:26:17
◼
►
kind of like a losing battle like you
00:26:18
◼
►
can't really fight the jailbreak
00:26:20
◼
►
community on piracy so you're usually
00:26:22
◼
►
better off not even trying and that is
00:26:25
◼
►
largely true of Mac piracy as well but
00:26:27
◼
►
not completely on the Mac you know it
00:26:30
◼
►
with people using the Mac like you don't
00:26:32
◼
►
have to be like a special class of user
00:26:35
◼
►
the way like you know you like you kind
00:26:36
◼
►
of have to like devote a lifestyle to be
00:26:38
◼
►
a jailbreaker click on the Mac you can
00:26:40
◼
►
pirate Mac apps if you really want to
00:26:42
◼
►
and a lot of people do
00:26:43
◼
►
and it's it's easier to do it and and so
00:26:46
◼
►
you do have to worry about that as a Mac
00:26:48
◼
►
software author of you have to worry
00:26:49
◼
►
about piracy and and how this will
00:26:51
◼
►
affect your app how will affect your
00:26:52
◼
►
customers and generally I've talked to a
00:26:55
◼
►
lot of developers about those recently
00:26:56
◼
►
trying to figure out what I need to do
00:26:58
◼
►
here and the number one is stay out of
00:27:01
◼
►
the Mac App Store because Mac App Store
00:27:03
◼
►
piracy is rampant because they all use
00:27:05
◼
►
the same wrapper that everyone it's
00:27:06
◼
►
cracked a million times and you kind of
00:27:08
◼
►
can't do much about it as a Mac App
00:27:11
◼
►
Store app also Mac App Store even
00:27:13
◼
►
without piracy the Mac App Store license
00:27:14
◼
►
allows for the same Apple ID to install
00:27:17
◼
►
your app on like hundreds of Mac's so
00:27:19
◼
►
that's a big problem if you have a
00:27:21
◼
►
business app where like a whole office
00:27:23
◼
►
full of computers might have your app
00:27:24
◼
►
installed off of one purchase which is
00:27:26
◼
►
not great so generally with piracy like
00:27:30
◼
►
a little goes a long way you need to do
00:27:33
◼
►
some piracy prevention you need to have
00:27:35
◼
►
some kind of like license or a serial
00:27:37
◼
►
number checking or something like that
00:27:40
◼
►
just to prevent casual piracy you need
00:27:42
◼
►
to put up some kind of barrier to make
00:27:44
◼
►
paying you easier for most people than
00:27:48
◼
►
pirating the app to a large extent your
00:27:51
◼
►
app will be pirated anyway and you know
00:27:53
◼
►
you can do things like you can scan the
00:27:55
◼
►
internet occasionally trying to like
00:27:56
◼
►
look for pirated serial numbers of your
00:27:58
◼
►
own app and then ban them in a future
00:27:59
◼
►
build of your app this is all examples
00:28:01
◼
►
of like low-hanging fruit like a little
00:28:03
◼
►
goes a long way here you should have
00:28:05
◼
►
some kind of piracy avoidance mechanism
00:28:08
◼
►
in your app and this is something you
00:28:09
◼
►
have to worry about with your X
00:28:10
◼
►
distribution but you know that's just a
00:28:13
◼
►
cost of doing business and that's that's
00:28:14
◼
►
part of you know that's part of you know
00:28:17
◼
►
just the reality of a software business
00:28:20
◼
►
on on a computer these days you know
00:28:21
◼
►
it's less so on mobile but on a computer
00:28:23
◼
►
that's that's still part of why you get
00:28:26
◼
►
paid the big bucks
00:28:26
◼
►
thank you yes and you know you have to
00:28:29
◼
►
always balance for his legitimate
00:28:31
◼
►
customers hurting them you know with
00:28:33
◼
►
ever any kind of piracy prevention
00:28:34
◼
►
system you pick but generally you know
00:28:37
◼
►
in summary I don't know much about this
00:28:38
◼
►
yet but it does seem like the common
00:28:40
◼
►
wisdom among people is although it goes
00:28:42
◼
►
a long way you need to do something but
00:28:44
◼
►
you don't need to you don't need to go
00:28:45
◼
►
crazy with it
00:28:46
◼
►
sure and I think that's probably the
00:28:48
◼
►
best path is it said you know build
00:28:51
◼
►
something yourself do something basic
00:28:52
◼
►
and then just don't worry about it
00:28:55
◼
►
all right well we're out of time this
00:28:57
◼
►
week thank you very much for listening
00:28:59
◼
►
everybody I know this is officially in
00:29:00
◼
►
iOS show but we will occasionally talk
00:29:02
◼
►
about the Mac because it's related
00:29:03
◼
►
thanks for listening and we'll see you
00:29:04
◼
►
next week bye