Under the Radar

Under the Radar 31: Today’s App Store Announcements


00:00:00   welcome to under the radar our show

00:00:01   about independent iOS app development

00:00:03   I'm Marco Arment and I'm David Smith

00:00:05   under the radar is never longer than 30

00:00:07   minutes so let's get started so today we

00:00:10   wanted to talk about these interesting

00:00:12   changes that were announced about the

00:00:13   App Store today as of as a time of

00:00:16   record they were announced about an hour

00:00:17   ago

00:00:18   Apple has officially recognized the

00:00:20   speed of apps of a preview times being

00:00:23   being improved some updates to the auto

00:00:26   renewing subscription plans and some

00:00:28   expansions of capabilities to

00:00:30   subscriptions there and then number

00:00:32   three is they've announced that search

00:00:35   ads will be coming to the App Store what

00:00:36   do you say we talk about the

00:00:38   subscription changes sure so as best we

00:00:41   can tell and there's a great page we'll

00:00:43   have a link to it in the show notes of

00:00:44   like the what's new in subscriptions

00:00:46   that Apple's laid out see there's some

00:00:48   good color you kind of get from Phil's

00:00:50   interview but the real meat of it is on

00:00:52   developer.apple.com and it seems like

00:00:56   there's two or three big deals one is

00:00:59   that you can now essentially offer Auto

00:01:02   renewing subscriptions in any app type

00:01:05   this used to be really some of somewhat

00:01:08   of a vaguely defined rule but you had to

00:01:10   be a magazine or a cloud services

00:01:13   company or a dating site I think we're

00:01:15   the three things that you could do yeah

00:01:17   it was always this rule has always been

00:01:18   very vague it used to only be like

00:01:21   periodic content first they used to be

00:01:23   able to be newsstand like in the very

00:01:24   very first implementation of it back in

00:01:26   2011 and then it kind of expanded to be

00:01:30   like well you could be newsstand or it

00:01:32   could be a handful of things that we

00:01:35   that had like you know recurring costs

00:01:37   like cloud services companies like I

00:01:39   know Evernote started using it very

00:01:40   early on for their premium service and

00:01:43   it was the kind of thing where you could

00:01:44   apply to do it and you could submit an

00:01:47   app that did it and it seemed fairly

00:01:49   inconsistent as to what got through app

00:01:52   review for that and what didn't and what

00:01:53   counted as like an ongoing service or

00:01:57   ongoing content and what didn't count

00:01:58   and so it was oh it was always very kind

00:02:02   of risky to attempt to do that if you

00:02:03   were just like an app that wanted

00:02:05   subscription revenue for for some other

00:02:07   reason outside of those narrowly defined

00:02:09   boxes yeah and so now that seems like

00:02:12   that's

00:02:13   those kind of criterias are going away

00:02:15   and any app category or type is

00:02:18   available I think I mean that honestly

00:02:20   that's that's still left a little bit

00:02:22   vague and in the language on on the page

00:02:24   it still left a little bit vague it's it

00:02:29   still kind of sounds like okay now any

00:02:31   app category can do this but you still

00:02:35   should be offering some kind of like

00:02:38   ongoing service backing it or some kind

00:02:42   of ongoing content delivery so it's

00:02:44   still a little like so if you just made

00:02:46   like a really good calculator that

00:02:47   didn't have a service behind it i it's

00:02:50   not entirely clear that you would be

00:02:52   allowed to subscription price it yeah

00:02:54   and I think that is probably the most

00:02:56   significant thing to note is that it

00:02:58   does seem like the like on in on the

00:03:01   developer page they're talking about the

00:03:03   types of an order of renewable

00:03:04   subscriptions are for content or for

00:03:06   services and so it doesn't sound like in

00:03:09   the sense of if you wanted to just say

00:03:11   like here's my app and you will pay me

00:03:14   whatever a few dollars a month a year to

00:03:17   use this going forward that you would be

00:03:21   able to you'd there'd have to be

00:03:22   something that you were giving the user

00:03:26   on an ongoing basis and I'm sure there's

00:03:28   many ways around that like you can just

00:03:29   kind of structure something in your app

00:03:31   that will make that you know check that

00:03:34   box but it doesn't sound like in in if

00:03:37   you were just trying to do like a

00:03:38   general purpose if you want to use my

00:03:42   app you have to pay that doesn't sound

00:03:45   like that's quite there um but it's

00:03:49   expanding it certainly more and I

00:03:51   imagine as we this gets rolled out and

00:03:53   people start sort of pushing the edges

00:03:55   of it will have a better understanding

00:03:56   of exactly what that means but at the

00:04:00   very least more people are going to be

00:04:02   able to do subscriptions than could do

00:04:05   subscriptions before yeah and it seems

00:04:07   like the implementation of them is

00:04:09   certainly improving but it seems like

00:04:11   it's based on the auto renewing

00:04:13   subscription type that we've had since

00:04:14   2011 it you know it's it's still it

00:04:17   isn't like some kind of separate app

00:04:19   store payment structure like you know

00:04:21   free versus paid upfront like it's not

00:04:23   going to be like a automatic it seems

00:04:24   like it's going to be a lot more like

00:04:27   what we

00:04:27   had before which is here's an in-app

00:04:28   purchase type you have to as a developer

00:04:30   you have to code the support for this a

00:04:32   net purchase type in your app you

00:04:34   probably have to write the backing

00:04:35   service to validate them I'm not sure

00:04:37   there's gonna be like I'm sure there's

00:04:38   companies that will do that for you for

00:04:40   a fee but you know you are still kind of

00:04:43   manually implementing this in your app

00:04:44   so it's not it's not as easy as you know

00:04:47   if you have a paid app a paid upfront

00:04:49   app you literally just like set a box

00:04:51   and iTunes Connect saying this app costs

00:04:52   X dollars and you don't have to deal

00:04:54   with anything else ever again you know

00:04:56   in relation to collecting money from

00:04:57   people it's not going to be that easy

00:04:58   it's it's still an in-app purchase that

00:05:00   you have to code for you have to account

00:05:03   for in your app ultimately though I

00:05:04   think this is the better way to do it

00:05:06   because this gives you flexibility in

00:05:07   the app to do things like what if you

00:05:10   know what if you want to have some

00:05:11   amount of your apps functionality or

00:05:13   content be available with it without

00:05:15   subscribing and then have some other

00:05:17   section of it be available with the

00:05:19   subscription then you know this allows

00:05:20   you to set that balance yourself so that

00:05:22   I think is is the right way to do this

00:05:24   ultimately though this is you know

00:05:27   assuming that that they will allow all

00:05:29   apps to use this which again it's the

00:05:31   wording is kind of vague that I think it

00:05:34   boils down to this one sentence on on

00:05:35   the page on their site which says

00:05:37   although all categories of apps will be

00:05:40   eligible this Benzema this business

00:05:42   model is not appropriate for every app

00:05:43   so I guess it depends on their

00:05:46   definition of eligible and appropriate

00:05:48   it does that mean does appropriate mean

00:05:50   they don't recommend we do it or does

00:05:52   appropriate mean they won't let us do it

00:05:54   so that's that's again still unknown but

00:05:56   I think subscription pricing is a really

00:06:00   really interesting compromise to what

00:06:03   developers have been asking for in the

00:06:05   App Store for a long time which is like

00:06:06   you know upgrades trials some some kind

00:06:08   of way to make money from people ongoing

00:06:10   because software as we've just before

00:06:13   you know software people expect ongoing

00:06:17   functionality they expect updates they

00:06:19   expect bug fixes they expect you to be

00:06:22   putting in effort to improve and fix

00:06:24   your software over time for them and so

00:06:27   when they pay for it they expect not

00:06:29   only am i paying for the software to use

00:06:31   now I'm paying for upgrades forever like

00:06:34   that's basically you know as much as

00:06:35   developers like to like to fight against

00:06:37   that with things like different versions

00:06:39   and paid upgrades the way people

00:06:40   perceive it

00:06:41   is I pay for this thing and therefore I

00:06:43   expect updates forever and so to try to

00:06:46   try to track the balance between like

00:06:48   what users want which is paying either a

00:06:50   zero or one time and then getting this

00:06:53   forever and versus what we need which is

00:06:54   ongoing revenue to fund the development

00:06:56   of these ongoing things and to fix

00:06:58   things over time and to improve things

00:06:59   over time subscriptions I think are a

00:07:03   really good compromise there because

00:07:05   look we're never gonna get paid upgrades

00:07:07   in the App Store we're never gonna get

00:07:08   like automated free trials this is the

00:07:11   they're giving us the system now they

00:07:13   gave us in-app purchase at first to to

00:07:16   kind of first semi simulate free trials

00:07:20   and types of upgrades sort of and now

00:07:23   they're giving us subscriptions to to

00:07:26   basically replace ongoing upgrade

00:07:28   revenue and there's some ups there's

00:07:30   some downs but I think it's pretty clear

00:07:33   this is Apple's message this is this is

00:07:34   them saying like we're not giving you

00:07:36   those other things this is what we're

00:07:37   giving you figure out a way to make this

00:07:39   work for you or to make the other stuff

00:07:41   that we already offer through in-app

00:07:42   purchase work for you and there's the

00:07:45   user side of this of course is is a big

00:07:48   question mark but the the developer side

00:07:51   as I think is very very clear now is if

00:07:53   you want ongoing revenue you know for

00:07:56   for people who just use your app if you

00:07:59   want on long everything you need to

00:08:00   either find a way to to convince them to

00:08:02   pay for this for a subscription price

00:08:03   like this or you have to do something

00:08:05   like advertising where you just kind of

00:08:07   automatically get paid with with usage

00:08:09   of your app over time I don't know what

00:08:12   do you think it's definitely a mixed

00:08:15   feeling that I have when I spent I saw

00:08:17   this news because on the one hand I'm

00:08:20   very glad that something is happening

00:08:22   like oK we've talked about for many

00:08:26   episodes like there's a lot of things

00:08:27   that feel not great in the App Store and

00:08:30   for years it's felt like nothing was

00:08:32   ever gonna change like what we had is

00:08:34   just what it was and that's where it was

00:08:37   going to be in eternity and I'm very

00:08:40   excited that things are changing that

00:08:43   whether this is a result of Phil

00:08:45   Schiller taking over the App Store more

00:08:48   fully or if it was just time for this to

00:08:50   happen or whatever the reason something

00:08:52   has caused this like changes to start

00:08:55   happening the things are starting to

00:08:56   sort of bubble up in the App Store and

00:08:58   are changing which overall I'm pretty

00:09:02   excited about because I think things

00:09:03   weren't in a great place and I mean you

00:09:05   never know it could be worse overall in

00:09:07   the end but I'd rather have I'd rather

00:09:09   to sort of find my way in a store that

00:09:11   was evolving and changing because in a

00:09:14   lot of ways like being a small developer

00:09:17   there's a lot of benefits when things

00:09:19   are more in flux because I can try

00:09:22   things out with much less overhead and

00:09:24   kind of dive in and there's less risk

00:09:26   than if I was a bigger company I can be

00:09:29   a bit more flexible and agile in that

00:09:31   way so overall I like that I'm not sure

00:09:36   if an annex and expansion of auto

00:09:38   renewable subscriptions is like

00:09:42   fundamentally going to improve the

00:09:44   situation in terms of making a viable

00:09:46   business in the app store it's I think

00:09:49   the types of applications where it will

00:09:51   make sense exist but they are more and

00:09:56   more limited and the thing that I worry

00:10:01   about as a user is if this is where

00:10:04   software goes but like if all of my

00:10:07   software requires an ongoing

00:10:09   subscription to have there's a very I

00:10:12   think you'll hit a fatigue point with

00:10:14   that where customers won't want to

00:10:17   download software or new software if in

00:10:20   their mind it's going to come you know

00:10:22   come with it a monthly charge of a

00:10:25   dollar a month or whatever it is into

00:10:27   their you know on their iTunes account

00:10:30   every single month in order to use any

00:10:32   of the apps and if they stop paying all

00:10:33   of a sudden all their apps stop working

00:10:35   and so I would imagine a lot of

00:10:37   customers would you know fight against

00:10:39   would push against that and in many ways

00:10:41   that could push even stronger pressure

00:10:44   towards the just sort of like software

00:10:46   being free model where the expectation

00:10:49   is that it'll be free and the reality is

00:10:51   in the App Store right now I mean this

00:10:53   is my own experience from trying every

00:10:55   business model known to man is that the

00:10:57   most success I've ever had is in the

00:11:00   just sort of give it all away for free

00:11:02   and put ads in it model which I don't

00:11:06   love

00:11:07   I have a hard time believing that the

00:11:11   percentage of my customers who would be

00:11:14   willing to pay a non insignificant

00:11:16   amount I mean one thing that I'm very

00:11:18   curious about yes there's a bunch of

00:11:20   stuff in here about different like 200

00:11:24   different price points and you can

00:11:25   specify different price points in

00:11:26   different territories and there's a lot

00:11:28   more flexibility there and I'm really

00:11:30   intrigued to see if we're going to get

00:11:32   something where the payments that you we

00:11:36   are charging can be lower or like in a

00:11:40   way that charging somebody a couple of

00:11:43   dollars a year maybe much maybe a bit

00:11:46   more palatable than charging them a

00:11:48   minimum of 99 cents per month which I

00:11:50   believe is the in the current form of

00:11:52   Auto renewing in-app purchases that's

00:11:55   the lowest tier you could do is a dollar

00:11:58   a month and maybe it's maybe I'm being a

00:12:01   little hard hard on my own software but

00:12:04   I I don't think a lot of people would

00:12:06   view a lot of what I make is worth more

00:12:09   than that where they're paying twelve

00:12:11   twelve dollars a year for it and but

00:12:14   maybe they would be willing to pay a few

00:12:16   dollars a year for it and so if there's

00:12:18   those types of things that's interesting

00:12:20   to me and I'm also quite interested in

00:12:23   the way that like in-app purchase or

00:12:24   auto renewing has a lot of flexibility

00:12:27   in it like the actual fundamental API as

00:12:29   it exists today and I imagine going

00:12:31   forward or it has built-in support for

00:12:34   things like free trials and bonus

00:12:36   periods and things where you can have a

00:12:39   bit more flexibility about the way the

00:12:42   first you know someone is I'm being

00:12:43   unboard into paying for your sock for

00:12:46   your you know for your software for your

00:12:47   service so that's certainly nice in

00:12:50   terms of a lot of people have been

00:12:52   asking for years for free trials on the

00:12:53   App Store and with in-app purchase you

00:12:56   can sort of get there you know they're

00:12:58   exactly how that goes like is gonna be

00:13:00   an interesting thing to navigate an app

00:13:02   review of app review typically doesn't

00:13:04   allow your app to be have a time limited

00:13:08   free trial but you can sort of get

00:13:10   around that if a your app is tied to an

00:13:12   online service and so will we be able to

00:13:16   work something out there but

00:13:18   I said overall it's kind of this weird

00:13:20   mixed feeling of I feel like I'm glad

00:13:22   that this is changing I really hope this

00:13:25   isn't the only change that we're gonna

00:13:27   see in the near future but I think it's

00:13:30   a good thing overall that it's happening

00:13:32   and the reality is even if maybe only a

00:13:35   few a very particular genre of

00:13:40   application will now be made more viable

00:13:42   maybe that's that's enough I don't know

00:13:45   it doesn't have to benefit me or you

00:13:46   necessarily but if all of a sudden

00:13:49   there's you know a few hundred

00:13:50   developers who can now make a viable run

00:13:53   at the App Store like that sounds great

00:13:55   overall yeah I mean and you know as you

00:13:59   said like that I don't think this is

00:14:00   going to address you know that there are

00:14:02   basically two challenges that that are

00:14:04   that developers face for monetization in

00:14:06   the App Store two big ones

00:14:07   one of which one of those challenges is

00:14:09   when people do want to give you money

00:14:12   our options for how to collect that

00:14:14   money have been limited and this

00:14:16   addresses that head-on this gives a lot

00:14:19   more developers a way to collect money

00:14:21   in a different way that might be a

00:14:22   better way that might earn them more

00:14:23   over time and the second challenge that

00:14:26   developers face is from conversation is

00:14:28   that there's just so many other apps out

00:14:30   there that it's hard to give in people

00:14:32   to pay anything for your app if there's

00:14:34   a million other free ones that do

00:14:35   something close enough and this don't

00:14:38   this is not going to address that at all

00:14:40   I do I do kind of argue though in

00:14:43   general that that's not really Apple's

00:14:45   problem that's that's our problem as

00:14:47   developers like that's just the market

00:14:48   that the market is full of competition

00:14:50   and full of alternatives and if somebody

00:14:53   else can do can offer the same thing for

00:14:54   us that that we can for cheaper then you

00:14:57   know good on that like that's that's

00:14:59   their prerogative and so I don't I think

00:15:02   this is Apple doing what they can to

00:15:04   help apps that are worth paying for earn

00:15:08   more money or collect money more easily

00:15:10   and and to solve oh you know ongoing

00:15:12   revenue in a new way which before we go

00:15:15   we only had basically we had crappy ways

00:15:18   to do it before and now we have a less

00:15:20   crappy way to do it potentially I have

00:15:22   in the past written about how much I

00:15:23   didn't like the implementation of Auto

00:15:25   renewing subscriptions I am reserving

00:15:28   judgment of this new one until I see it

00:15:30   and possibly

00:15:31   even use it for my subscriptions we'll

00:15:33   see but I I they say they're changing it

00:15:36   this is like you know subscriptions 2.0

00:15:38   they're saying so I'm willing to give it

00:15:39   a shot

00:15:40   it will see if it's improved in in in

00:15:43   meaningful ways it sounds it sounds from

00:15:45   the language and the pigs that that it

00:15:46   has so I will wait and see on that the

00:15:48   other before we quickly leave this topic

00:15:50   the other thing to talk about on the

00:15:52   subscription front is that they they're

00:15:54   changing the revenue split that they are

00:15:57   so normally the revenue split is 70/30

00:15:59   Apple gets we get seventy applicants

00:16:01   31st for Auto renewing subscriptions of

00:16:04   this new type are all actually for auto

00:16:07   doing subscriptions there's changing the

00:16:09   split from 70/30 to 85 15 after the

00:16:13   first year so any subscriber you've had

00:16:16   for more than a year you will start to

00:16:18   earn more from them you'll start to earn

00:16:20   85% set of 70% so this is basically

00:16:24   incentivizing you to create you know

00:16:27   it's if you have a way to make money

00:16:28   from people over time this is

00:16:30   incentivizing you to both use this

00:16:32   system for for doing that and to to make

00:16:36   something that is worth people

00:16:38   subscribing to for more than a year and

00:16:39   that's kind of cool and it's it's kind

00:16:42   of cool to see you know this is this is

00:16:44   the the first exception to the 70/30

00:16:47   rule at least that's been publicized in

00:16:50   the history of the App Store there I was

00:16:51   able to find an article on I think was

00:16:54   recode that I'll link to in the show

00:16:56   notes from back in April that said that

00:16:59   some of the video services on the Apple

00:17:01   TV we're getting this 85/15 deal right

00:17:04   up front as part of the negotiation with

00:17:06   Apple but other than that I have never

00:17:08   heard of any exceptions to the to the

00:17:10   70/30 split so I think that was

00:17:12   interesting and it's originally

00:17:13   considered to like where Apple might go

00:17:15   with a 7 with the 85 15 option in the

00:17:18   future they can use this as a way to

00:17:20   incentivize development to in a certain

00:17:23   way or on certain platforms that need

00:17:25   help so for instance they could you know

00:17:27   if if Apple TV isn't getting enough

00:17:29   developer attention they could say all

00:17:30   right now everything on Apple TV is

00:17:31   85/15 if if they wanted to incentivize

00:17:34   people to go to the Mac App Store they

00:17:35   could say all right now all Mac App

00:17:36   Store apps are 85/15 so something

00:17:39   interesting interesting to consider is

00:17:40   like using using this this new lower

00:17:43   lower Commission basically

00:17:45   so we make more money as a way to

00:17:47   incentivize different development or

00:17:49   apps on different platforms that that

00:17:51   need incentives to spur development

00:17:53   exactly and I think the the actual in be

00:17:57   like impact of this in this narrow case

00:17:59   is it's nice I mean I guess if I had a

00:18:02   subscription that had more than a

00:18:03   years-long like subscriber base I love

00:18:07   it like one day my revenue just goes up

00:18:10   a little but like by far the more

00:18:11   fundamental thing that this is really in

00:18:13   treating with is it's the first sort of

00:18:16   chink in the in my in the like well it

00:18:19   will always be 70/30 for everything

00:18:21   forever and if that's no longer true and

00:18:24   it's like demonstrably not true that in

00:18:27   this particular case they're changing

00:18:28   the split what else could they change

00:18:30   the split on like you said and driving

00:18:32   they can incentivize whatever they want

00:18:34   and that's intriguing you know are what

00:18:37   you could imagine things where it's a

00:18:39   different revenue split for the first

00:18:42   revenue you make in a year to try and

00:18:44   help smaller developers you could

00:18:47   imagine you know trying to encourage

00:18:48   people to different platforms to try

00:18:50   different incentivize different business

00:18:52   models there's all kinds of things that

00:18:54   not having it be strictly 70/30

00:18:57   everywhere you know can certainly make

00:19:00   the imagination run wild with and so you

00:19:03   know it's certainly a good thing I don't

00:19:05   think it's immediate I can if your

00:19:07   business wasn't viable at 70/30 having

00:19:10   to wait a year for it to switch to 85 15

00:19:13   to become viable seems a little bit of a

00:19:15   stretch but it's certainly you know I'll

00:19:18   take it it's better than nothing for

00:19:20   sure our sponsor this week is Braintree

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00:20:04   / radar that's it once again

00:20:07   Braintree payments comm / radar thanks

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00:20:11   once again all right so let's talk about

00:20:13   app store search ads this was rumored a

00:20:16   few a few weeks or months ago and it now

00:20:20   it apparently is real they are really

00:20:21   doing app store search ads and so what

00:20:25   do you think I'm not delighted that's

00:20:29   for sure

00:20:30   the things that I think so probably good

00:20:33   at paint paint a word picture as they

00:20:35   say for what's happening is in the App

00:20:38   Store when you go to the Search tab and

00:20:40   you type in what you're looking at what

00:20:42   you're looking for they will now be

00:20:44   potentially a ad at the top of that

00:20:47   screen you can get an example of this if

00:20:50   you go to the search ads page in our

00:20:52   show notes and the placement there is

00:20:55   going to be based on an auction and a

00:20:58   combination of who's willing to pay the

00:21:00   most for that spot as well as some vague

00:21:03   relevance metric but essentially people

00:21:06   are going to be able to pay money to

00:21:07   appear in the App Store Search tab at

00:21:11   the top of the results which is pretty a

00:21:14   pretty big deal like Apple even says on

00:21:16   their page that about 65 percent of

00:21:18   downloads come from searching in the App

00:21:21   Store so you know a substantial majority

00:21:24   is going to be coming from there and the

00:21:27   things that come to mind first and I see

00:21:29   this is this really is unfortunate for

00:21:32   apps that are currently the second

00:21:34   search result for a particular term

00:21:36   things are gonna fall off the screen

00:21:37   because previously like back in the old

00:21:40   days when you would did a search you

00:21:41   would be able to see maybe like five or

00:21:42   six results at once then they switch to

00:21:44   the cards view we have now where your

00:21:47   first two screenshots are a screenshot

00:21:49   and your app preview are shown on that

00:21:51   first screen and so they take up a lot

00:21:53   more vertical space and so you can see

00:21:54   the top result and the teeny little bit

00:21:59   of the second result and now if there's

00:22:02   an ad you're only ever going to see that

00:22:03   top result and the paid ad so that's a

00:22:06   little unfortunate because I've

00:22:08   definitely seen in my own apps where if

00:22:10   you fall off that first page

00:22:13   yes if the user has to scroll it's a

00:22:15   substantial reduction in user interest

00:22:18   views on your page etc so that's a

00:22:21   pretty big deal if now only two apps are

00:22:24   gonna be shown in that in the initial

00:22:27   search screen one of them is paid to get

00:22:29   there and the other one is just the top

00:22:30   result so if you're the top results like

00:22:32   hooray things are looking good for you

00:22:34   if you're the second result or below

00:22:36   it's getting worse and then there's just

00:22:40   like the fundamental thing about it when

00:22:42   I look at it that feels it feels weird

00:22:45   to have to pay to show up in search

00:22:49   rather than search just being really

00:22:52   relevant and helpful and I can see the

00:22:56   areas where this unlike this is helpful

00:22:57   where if you're launching a new app and

00:22:59   you you know you're never gonna be the

00:23:02   first search result on your first day

00:23:04   and so you want to try and find your way

00:23:07   into that like you can do a big spend on

00:23:09   that first day and hope you know I hope

00:23:11   that really helps at your launch and

00:23:13   that sort of makes sense

00:23:15   and it makes a lot of sense I suppose

00:23:16   for someone generic terms but what I

00:23:20   worry about a lot is how is the HAR

00:23:23   they're going to police and manage you

00:23:26   know and someone searches for a specific

00:23:27   app you know so someone goes into the

00:23:29   App Store and searches for a pedometer

00:23:31   plus plus and my competitor like right

00:23:35   now if you go into the App Store and

00:23:36   search pedometer plus plus I'm the

00:23:38   number one result which intuitively

00:23:40   makes sense but if I in the future you

00:23:43   do that search the top result is going

00:23:45   to be a competitor of mine who wants to

00:23:49   be placed on the top of there that feels

00:23:52   really weird

00:23:53   and am I gonna have to pay for that like

00:23:55   am I gonna have to start paying like

00:23:58   protection money to keep people

00:24:00   searching for my apps name relevant to

00:24:03   me you know so that I would be the both

00:24:05   I guess the paid results and the natural

00:24:08   result like that starts to feel really

00:24:11   weird and awkward and not great but I

00:24:16   mean I don't know if this seems like

00:24:18   this is the new reality then I'm just

00:24:20   gonna deal with that and try as best I

00:24:24   can to work it

00:24:25   work up to my favor but I definitely

00:24:27   have a lot more apprehension about this

00:24:29   than I do about the subscriptions change

00:24:31   honestly I am excited about search ads

00:24:34   because like if you look through their

00:24:35   page it seems like it's it's more

00:24:38   complicated and both both more simple

00:24:40   more complicated than than what I would

00:24:41   have guessed it is auction-based which i

00:24:43   think is good and if you look they have

00:24:46   a little screenshot of the interface to

00:24:48   buy one of these ads and they say also

00:24:51   like it says ads will only be shown as

00:24:54   relevant to the search query if an ad is

00:24:55   not relevant to what the users looking

00:24:57   for it will not be shown regardless of

00:24:59   how much you're willing to pay so that

00:25:01   means it it sounds like they're gonna

00:25:03   try to make it impossible for you to

00:25:05   like keyword spam in a way that would be

00:25:07   kind of odd or uncomfortable or

00:25:10   inappropriate I'm curious to see how

00:25:12   that works out in practice that sounds

00:25:13   really great if it works and also it

00:25:15   looks like you can kind of let them kind

00:25:19   of like place you automatically if you

00:25:21   want to or you can add in certain

00:25:22   keywords that you want to be that you

00:25:24   want to like bid on also but it seems

00:25:26   like it's a fairly high level buying

00:25:28   process rather than like a low level all

00:25:30   right whenever you search for this exact

00:25:32   string I will pay up to up to five

00:25:35   dollars two beads to be on that first

00:25:36   spot like it isn't quite that rigid or

00:25:39   that or that specific it looks like so

00:25:41   I'm really curious to see how they do

00:25:43   this as a developer like I right now

00:25:45   it's like okay well right now over cash

00:25:47   is growing at a rate that's okay but I'd

00:25:49   like it to grow faster I'm willing to

00:25:51   pay a little bit for that how do I do

00:25:52   that I mean the App Store is the perfect

00:25:55   like app store search is the perfect

00:25:56   place for me to do that

00:25:58   as far as I know from before I mean if

00:26:00   you've ever done it it seems like it

00:26:02   would be the perfect place to do that

00:26:03   I'm willing to pay money if somebody

00:26:05   searches for like podcasts to pet to be

00:26:07   in that top slot I'm like I'm willing to

00:26:10   try that and so to have this new option

00:26:13   to grow my app if it's done tastefully

00:26:15   which it looks like it might be this

00:26:17   honestly looks very promising the way

00:26:19   that on this page they've set up here I

00:26:21   would love to have that option and it

00:26:24   looks like it's probably not going to

00:26:26   make it impossible for other apps to get

00:26:28   discovered because it's so limited to

00:26:30   like what people can buy and and you

00:26:32   know what portion of the screen is

00:26:34   devoted to this ad I think it looks like

00:26:36   it's gonna be good but we'll see I mean

00:26:39   thinking's gonna take a lot of

00:26:40   experimentation I've actually you know

00:26:41   trying the system out spending of you

00:26:43   know maybe a few hundred dollars buying

00:26:44   some ads first and see like we know what

00:26:46   works what doesn't

00:26:47   there's a lot of ways to advertise for

00:26:49   apps and most of them don't work very

00:26:50   well this one might work so I'm excited

00:26:53   you know I think this will be I think

00:26:55   this could be really good and there's

00:26:57   definitely like we've said with all this

00:26:58   like I love that they're trying

00:27:00   something that they're not yeah like

00:27:02   that part of it is good and sort of

00:27:05   unequivocally I'm very I would rather

00:27:07   things like this exist and make me a

00:27:09   little nervous

00:27:09   then things not exist at all and make me

00:27:12   be even more nervous that this platform

00:27:14   that I make my living on is just

00:27:16   stagnant so I'm definitely excited that

00:27:18   it exists and it's interesting to to

00:27:21   think about how having to think about my

00:27:25   like all my customers from the

00:27:27   perspective of what are they worth to me

00:27:29   is like the immediately thought maybe

00:27:31   this is just like me and my numbers

00:27:33   brain where I think about these things

00:27:34   but essentially what it comes down to is

00:27:35   I now have to in a very concrete way say

00:27:38   what is a customer worth to me because I

00:27:41   can now in many ways pay that amount of

00:27:44   money to acquire that customer or at

00:27:48   least have a promising venue with which

00:27:51   to acquire them and so if I can say you

00:27:53   know a new user is worth 50 cents to me

00:27:56   and I can come into the search ads page

00:27:59   and pay you know 49 cents for that user

00:28:03   I'm coming out ahead I as soon as I can

00:28:06   understand and wrap my arms around what

00:28:08   like these are all like the terms like

00:28:10   the average value per of each customer

00:28:12   and those kinds of things once I can do

00:28:14   that I can sit down and say okay I'm

00:28:17   just going to pay as long as I break

00:28:19   even or slightly come out ahead I can

00:28:23   keep putting you into this weird cycle

00:28:26   where I can just keep taking money out

00:28:27   of the app and putting it in to a point

00:28:29   mm-hmm and maybe the value of my

00:28:31   customers will go down at a certain

00:28:33   point as you do that like new there's a

00:28:34   dilution effect but overall it certainly

00:28:37   is a very intriguing way and maybe it's

00:28:39   a good thing for you know for us as app

00:28:43   developers to be forced to think of our

00:28:45   apps in a more tangible business sense

00:28:48   in that way that it isn't this kind of

00:28:49   vague crafty thing that I'm sort of like

00:28:52   I don't really know

00:28:53   the value of it's kind of like I just

00:28:55   make this stuff and I put it out in the

00:28:56   world it's like no each I can sit down

00:28:58   and say I get this much revenue from

00:29:00   this many users that means each user is

00:29:03   worth this much to me so I can pay up to

00:29:05   this amount to acquire new ones and

00:29:06   that's that's maybe a good thing for us

00:29:09   to have to think about and I think it

00:29:11   can help

00:29:11   it can help newcomers like everyone's a

00:29:13   little bit worried like what's this

00:29:14   gonna do to the toy like the little guys

00:29:15   I thinks will actually help newcomers

00:29:17   give them an option that if they

00:29:19   wouldn't otherwise be visible for a

00:29:21   search query give them away to get in

00:29:24   there you know like that I think this

00:29:26   actually could be really good if done

00:29:27   right and it looks pretty promising so

00:29:29   far so we'll have to see all right and

00:29:31   finally we want to very briefly talk

00:29:33   about the the app review times being

00:29:36   formally acknowledged you know we said

00:29:38   that this would be great if this sticks

00:29:40   around and one of the ways to make sure

00:29:42   it'll stick around is if Apple formally

00:29:45   acknowledges it in public and they did

00:29:46   so fast a preview is probably sticking

00:29:49   around and that's great thank you for

00:29:51   listening everybody thanks to Braintree

00:29:53   for sponsoring and we'll talk to you all

00:29:54   next week bye