Under the Radar

00:00:00 ◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show about

00:00:02 ◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:04 ◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

00:00:06 ◼   ► the radar is never longer than 30

00:00:07 ◼   ► minutes so let's get started so today we

00:00:10 ◼   ► wanted to talk about WWDC it was just

00:00:13 ◼   ► announced as we record it was just

00:00:15 ◼   ► announced a little less than a day ago

00:00:17 ◼   ► and we wanted to talk about whether you

00:00:20 ◼   ► want to go or not because right now

00:00:21 ◼   ► they're doing this kind of lottery

00:00:22 ◼   ► system just like in the last couple of

00:00:24 ◼   ► years where you can you can register to

00:00:27 ◼   ► get a ticket and you have to commit to

00:00:30 ◼   ► buy it to register and then if they if

00:00:33 ◼   ► you if you win the lottery and if you

00:00:35 ◼   ► get awarded a ticket they charge your

00:00:37 ◼   ► credit card that you've registered with

00:00:38 ◼   ► them it's not refundable so you

00:00:40 ◼   ► basically have to like pre-commit $1,600

00:00:43 ◼   ► to potentially getting this ticket if

00:00:46 ◼   ► you want a chance of getting one at all

00:00:47 ◼   ► so this raises the obvious question for

00:00:49 ◼   ► a lot of us of well do I do I want to

00:00:51 ◼   ► try for this or not and David I'm

00:00:54 ◼   ► curious did you register and if so why I

00:00:57 ◼   ► did I have a lot of reasons why I

00:01:00 ◼   ► registered for WDC it's I it's very

00:01:05 ◼   ► important for me personally and some of

00:01:06 ◼   ► these things will only apply to the way

00:01:08 ◼   ► that I run like my business and the way

00:01:10 ◼   ► my business is structured but for me WDC

00:01:14 ◼   ► is a very unique opportunity like the

00:01:16 ◼   ► actual event going to it beyond just

00:01:19 ◼   ► like the the things that I could do at

00:01:21 ◼   ► home you know like there's I think this

00:01:23 ◼   ► year for the they're going to be

00:01:25 ◼   ► live-streaming the sessions in past

00:01:27 ◼   ► years it's been the videos were

00:01:28 ◼   ► available a few hours later and so if

00:01:30 ◼   ► you were just going wanting to go to the

00:01:32 ◼   ► conference if you were just want to get

00:01:33 ◼   ► the information that's presented from

00:01:35 ◼   ► stage there's really no need to go to

00:01:37 ◼   ► WDC there's no reason to go to San

00:01:39 ◼   ► Francisco like you could just do that at

00:01:41 ◼   ► home for me though

00:01:43 ◼   ► the thing about WDC that makes me want

00:01:46 ◼   ► to go like there's the there's the main

00:01:47 ◼   ► reason and there's like a kind of a

00:01:49 ◼   ► secondary reason the main reason for me

00:01:50 ◼   ► is the labs so every year at WCC it's

00:01:53 ◼   ► kind of the way it's structured just

00:01:54 ◼   ► probably is good to have a bit of a

00:01:55 ◼   ► quick overview there's like on Monday

00:01:57 ◼   ► and this week this year it's from I

00:02:00 ◼   ► think the 13th to the 18th of June now

00:02:03 ◼   ► on the Monday they'll have kind of like

00:02:04 ◼   ► the big keynote addresses in the morning

00:02:07 ◼   ► there's usually the like the executive

00:02:08 ◼   ► one so you know where Tim Koch and Phil

00:02:11 ◼   ► Schiller and those kind of

00:02:12 ◼   ► people will come up on stage and give

00:02:14 ◼   ► the broad strokes of Apple's vision for

00:02:17 ◼   ► you know then the next generation of

00:02:19 ◼   ► their software typically you know so

00:02:22 ◼   ► what's coming in iOS so is 10 watch OST

00:02:24 ◼   ► vos like the big high-level things we'll

00:02:26 ◼   ► break for lunch and then they'll have

00:02:28 ◼   ► the developer State of the Union type of

00:02:30 ◼   ► thing where they talk in greater

00:02:33 ◼   ► technical depth about in all the things

00:02:35 ◼   ► that were said in the morning and then

00:02:36 ◼   ► the rest of the week

00:02:37 ◼   ► Tuesday through Friday is broken up into

00:02:40 ◼   ► there'll be sessions which are you know

00:02:43 ◼   ► sort of powerful or keynote

00:02:44 ◼   ► presentations talking about the various

00:02:47 ◼   ► technologies that are introduced or

00:02:49 ◼   ► things that are new things that you want

00:02:50 ◼   ► to learn about and those are gonna be

00:02:52 ◼   ► live streamed and available and then

00:02:54 ◼   ► downstairs yeah at most the Moscone West

00:02:57 ◼   ► Center where it's held they have the

00:02:59 ◼   ► labs which are we're a bunch of Apple

00:03:02 ◼   ► engineers essentially I think they

00:03:03 ◼   ► usually say it's something like about a

00:03:05 ◼   ► thousand engineers are on hand in very

00:03:07 ◼   ► at various times throughout the week

00:03:08 ◼   ► we'll sit down and they'll have sort of

00:03:11 ◼   ► office hours where you can come in and

00:03:12 ◼   ► talk to people on the various technical

00:03:15 ◼   ► teams so say I'm having a problem with

00:03:17 ◼   ► core emotion I can go to the core

00:03:18 ◼   ► emotion lab and I can sit down and I can

00:03:20 ◼   ► talk to somebody who either wrote the

00:03:23 ◼   ► API is that I'm working with or knows

00:03:25 ◼   ► the person who did and for me that's the

00:03:30 ◼   ► part that is completely irreplaceable

00:03:32 ◼   ► and in some ways honestly kind of

00:03:34 ◼   ► essential for the way I do my business

00:03:36 ◼   ► because I have kind of made a living on

00:03:39 ◼   ► looking at Apple's newest platforms and

00:03:41 ◼   ► their newest technologies and being one

00:03:44 ◼   ► of the first people to adopt them in

00:03:46 ◼   ► whatever form that looks like you know

00:03:48 ◼   ► so whenever there's a new like I just

00:03:50 ◼   ► did with activity plus plus like there

00:03:51 ◼   ► was this new API for active accessing

00:03:53 ◼   ► activity data I submitted my app the

00:03:55 ◼   ► moment it was possible to do that and

00:03:57 ◼   ► you know that works out and for me WDC

00:04:00 ◼   ► is this tremendous opportunity to go and

00:04:02 ◼   ► talk to people about not really like the

00:04:04 ◼   ► what of what was announced like things

00:04:07 ◼   ► think things did you get from the video

00:04:08 ◼   ► where they say like here's the five new

00:04:10 ◼   ► api's here's the new things here's

00:04:11 ◼   ► what's going on but being able to go and

00:04:13 ◼   ► talk to an engineer about it's kind of

00:04:15 ◼   ► why and to be able to say like well this

00:04:18 ◼   ► is like I think I can go and I can but

00:04:21 ◼   ► I'll tend to do is I'll sit down and

00:04:23 ◼   ► kind of bang out a really rough

00:04:24 ◼   ► prototype of something

00:04:25 ◼   ► I'm thinking about maybe working on this

00:04:27 ◼   ► summer go ahead down to the lab and be

00:04:28 ◼   ► like hey this is how I'm doing it and is

00:04:31 ◼   ► this a reasonable approach like nothing

00:04:33 ◼   ► even more specific than is this a

00:04:34 ◼   ► reasonable approach and you will often

00:04:36 ◼   ► be from conversations than with those

00:04:38 ◼   ► engineers you can understand why they're

00:04:39 ◼   ► doing things the way they are and for me

00:04:42 ◼   ► that's kind of essential and I'm ready

00:04:45 ◼   ► to register for ticket I got my fingers

00:04:46 ◼   ► crossed that he'll be one of the ones

00:04:47 ◼   ► who's been selected for that reason and

00:04:51 ◼   ► then secondarily and a bit more

00:04:53 ◼   ► amusingly I love going to wvc because

00:04:55 ◼   ► it's almost like every year

00:04:58 ◼   ► being at an iOS developer there are a

00:05:00 ◼   ► lot of things that are frustrating there

00:05:02 ◼   ► are a lot of things that are challenging

00:05:02 ◼   ► and that can kind of wear on you after a

00:05:07 ◼   ► while

00:05:07 ◼   ► and the thing with about WB DC is I've

00:05:10 ◼   ► been I had the privilege of going I

00:05:11 ◼   ► think six times before six or seven it's

00:05:14 ◼   ► quite a few and every time I go I always

00:05:17 ◼   ► leave that BBC feeling excited motivated

00:05:21 ◼   ► and just kind of like jazzed about the

00:05:23 ◼   ► platform and the cool things that are

00:05:25 ◼   ► coming and it you could say it's kind of

00:05:27 ◼   ► like going big it's like I go to San

00:05:29 ◼   ► Francisco and I drink the kool-aid again

00:05:30 ◼   ► and that's kind of like the negative way

00:05:32 ◼   ► to look at it or you could just say like

00:05:33 ◼   ► it's it's a time to go and reconnect

00:05:37 ◼   ► with the things that originally made me

00:05:38 ◼   ► so excited for this platform and kind of

00:05:40 ◼   ► wash away some of the things that may

00:05:42 ◼   ► have been frustrating in the previous

00:05:43 ◼   ► year and kind of recenter and focus on

00:05:46 ◼   ► okay you know what's gonna happen the

00:05:48 ◼   ► next year and so for me the $1,600 and

00:05:51 ◼   ► throwing my name in the Hat like just

00:05:53 ◼   ► makes perfect sense yeah I mean I have

00:05:55 ◼   ► mostly the same kind of feelings about

00:05:57 ◼   ► it

00:05:58 ◼   ► I also registered and I also you know

00:06:01 ◼   ► put down the potential $1,600 to

00:06:03 ◼   ► potentially get a ticket for me it's

00:06:06 ◼   ► it's it's mostly about the community

00:06:10 ◼   ► side at this point because the technical

00:06:12 ◼   ► stuff is you know while it is strong and

00:06:16 ◼   ► it is very good you also don't you know

00:06:19 ◼   ► increasingly you have to be there less

00:06:21 ◼   ► and less to get it because every year

00:06:24 ◼   ► you know it used to be back in the olden

00:06:26 ◼   ► days back when you could sell apps for

00:06:28 ◼   ► money it used to be that they they would

00:06:30 ◼   ► they would put up the videos like three

00:06:34 ◼   ► months after the conference or something

00:06:35 ◼   ► like that and then every year as as the

00:06:39 ◼   ► as the conference has has become more

00:06:41 ◼   ► and more oversold and overcapacity

00:06:44 ◼   ► they've tried to address that issue of

00:06:47 ◼   ► like there's so many people who want to

00:06:48 ◼   ► be there but just can't get a ticket

00:06:50 ◼   ► because there aren't enough or they

00:06:51 ◼   ► can't get out there for scheduling the

00:06:53 ◼   ► work reasons or the other problem is

00:06:55 ◼   ► it's just a lot of money and a lot of

00:06:58 ◼   ► people cannot afford to put down the

00:07:00 ◼   ► probably all in four thousand dollars

00:07:03 ◼   ► that you'll that you'll be in to to do

00:07:05 ◼   ► this trip something like that because a

00:07:07 ◼   ► big part of which is the hotel but see

00:07:09 ◼   ► how that goes so it's a lot of money

00:07:13 ◼   ► it's a it's you know a week off of work

00:07:15 ◼   ► that you have to go do this so a lot of

00:07:16 ◼   ► people can't be there so what they've

00:07:17 ◼   ► been doing is making the videos

00:07:20 ◼   ► available earlier and earlier to the

00:07:23 ◼   ► point where oh and also dropping the

00:07:25 ◼   ► requirement that even had to be a paying

00:07:28 ◼   ► developer member to even watch them that

00:07:30 ◼   ► used to be the case now any developer

00:07:32 ◼   ► can watch them for free and you don't

00:07:35 ◼   ► have to have been there you don't need

00:07:36 ◼   ► the hundred dollar full membership level

00:07:39 ◼   ► any any developer can watch these videos

00:07:41 ◼   ► and the videos himself have gotten

00:07:43 ◼   ► better they have transcripts and that's

00:07:44 ◼   ► searchable and all that stuff and the

00:07:46 ◼   ► production value has gone up and

00:07:47 ◼   ► everything and they are now releasing

00:07:49 ◼   ► them so fast last year they were

00:07:51 ◼   ► released like within a day or so of them

00:07:54 ◼   ► of the talks happening and this year

00:07:56 ◼   ► they're saying as you mentioned this

00:07:58 ◼   ► year they're gonna be live broadcast in

00:08:00 ◼   ► them which has never happened before for

00:08:01 ◼   ► anything beyond the initial keynote so

00:08:05 ◼   ► increasingly there's less and less

00:08:07 ◼   ► reason why you need to be there as a

00:08:09 ◼   ► developer and that's why if I you know

00:08:12 ◼   ► in past years I have been so scared that

00:08:15 ◼   ► I wouldn't get a ticket and I've been

00:08:17 ◼   ► very lucky that for the last seven years

00:08:19 ◼   ► I have gotten a ticket and all the one

00:08:22 ◼   ► year I had to sign up to developer

00:08:24 ◼   ► accounts two together but this year if I

00:08:28 ◼   ► don't get a ticket I don't think I'm

00:08:31 ◼   ► gonna be as disappointed and I'm still

00:08:33 ◼   ► gonna go and and there's a whole

00:08:35 ◼   ► question of like whether you should go

00:08:36 ◼   ► out to San Francisco for that week

00:08:38 ◼   ► anyway even if you don't get a ticket

00:08:40 ◼   ► cuz there are other things to do there

00:08:42 ◼   ► are other events that people put on just

00:08:44 ◼   ► not Apple but you know there's other

00:08:46 ◼   ► conferences there's the layers

00:08:47 ◼   ► conference there's alt conf there's a

00:08:50 ◼   ► lot of like meetups and user groups and

00:08:52 ◼   ► there's just all

00:08:52 ◼   ► these developers who were all in town

00:08:54 ◼   ► that week and so there's lots of social

00:08:56 ◼   ► events if you have any developer friends

00:08:58 ◼   ► or if you just go to a bar near Moscone

00:09:00 ◼   ► you will find developers and you can

00:09:02 ◼   ► make developer friends and so there's

00:09:04 ◼   ► there's a lot of reasons to be there

00:09:06 ◼   ► regardless so if I don't get a ticket

00:09:08 ◼   ► this year I think what I will miss the

00:09:12 ◼   ► most is kind of the the fun of like

00:09:16 ◼   ► being in the building and like going to

00:09:19 ◼   ► sessions live and and go into the

00:09:22 ◼   ► keynote waiting with waiting with you

00:09:23 ◼   ► and John and Casey in line and and like

00:09:27 ◼   ► doing all that stuff

00:09:28 ◼   ► well I really miss the line maybe it's

00:09:31 ◼   ► part of the fun I'll miss the

00:09:33 ◼   ► camaraderie of the line but maybe not

00:09:35 ◼   ► the duration of it but you know

00:09:37 ◼   ► ultimately I will have fun that week out

00:09:41 ◼   ► there regardless of whether I get a

00:09:43 ◼   ► ticket or not so the ticket will

00:09:44 ◼   ► basically if I get the ticket the value

00:09:47 ◼   ► of it is in structuring my day and

00:09:50 ◼   ► giving me a place I have to be all day

00:09:52 ◼   ► every day and and a venue to go to and

00:09:54 ◼   ► and things to see and and talks to see

00:09:57 ◼   ► and and kind of the the the focus of

00:10:02 ◼   ► having it be like my only job this week

00:10:05 ◼   ► is to watch these sessions and then

00:10:07 ◼   ► socialize at night but you know my my

00:10:09 ◼   ► primary job this week is to watch these

00:10:11 ◼   ► sessions live because when they post the

00:10:13 ◼   ► videos afterwards it's a little harder

00:10:16 ◼   ► to find the time to sit down and do it

00:10:17 ◼   ► because if you're just sitting at home

00:10:19 ◼   ► in your office you have all sorts of

00:10:22 ◼   ► other work to do you might have a family

00:10:24 ◼   ► to also take care of so like your whole

00:10:26 ◼   ► life is is pressuring you during all

00:10:30 ◼   ► other times of the year that you should

00:10:32 ◼   ► probably be doing something else rather

00:10:33 ◼   ► than sitting and watching a whole bunch

00:10:34 ◼   ► of videos for api's and stuff that you

00:10:37 ◼   ► might not even be using yet that you

00:10:38 ◼   ► might just think might be interesting

00:10:40 ◼   ► you know when are you gonna find him to

00:10:41 ◼   ► do that well if you're there your job is

00:10:44 ◼   ► to go to those things that is the reason

00:10:45 ◼   ► you're there you have that time kind of

00:10:47 ◼   ► carved out and that is what your focus

00:10:49 ◼   ► is if you if you're not there or if

00:10:51 ◼   ► you're there without a ticket it's less

00:10:52 ◼   ► focused so I feel like I will miss that

00:10:54 ◼   ► that kind of focus and forced attention

00:10:59 ◼   ► on on the sessions because that's a good

00:11:01 ◼   ► thing however probably the biggest thing

00:11:04 ◼   ► I would miss would be

00:11:06 ◼   ► the Mosconi sandwiches no just kidding

00:11:08 ◼   ► it'll be the labs it would be you know

00:11:11 ◼   ► as you know as as you mentioned like

00:11:12 ◼   ► having the labs having access to the

00:11:16 ◼   ► Apple engineers has not always but has

00:11:21 ◼   ► reasonably frequently provided me with

00:11:23 ◼   ► pretty good information oftentimes very

00:11:26 ◼   ► good information so I that is the part I

00:11:30 ◼   ► would miss the most if I don't get a

00:11:31 ◼   ► ticket but the rest of the conference I

00:11:35 ◼   ► feel like if you've if you've gone to

00:11:37 ◼   ► them for a few years you kind of know

00:11:38 ◼   ► what it is assuming they don't change it

00:11:40 ◼   ► you know Matt massively which is not

00:11:43 ◼   ► necessarily a safe assumption because

00:11:44 ◼   ► they are already doing like the keynote

00:11:46 ◼   ► at the Bill Graham auditorium and so

00:11:48 ◼   ► what we're gonna see like there there's

00:11:49 ◼   ► some changes in the event here but I

00:11:51 ◼   ► feel like I've gotten so much out of it

00:11:54 ◼   ► in previous years that maybe it's time

00:11:57 ◼   ► for a break I don't know I don't know I

00:12:00 ◼   ► think I'm certainly conflicted on the

00:12:03 ◼   ► issue that's why like if if I do get a

00:12:05 ◼   ► ticket okay well I don't need to think

00:12:07 ◼   ► about it for another year and if I don't

00:12:08 ◼   ► get a ticket I guess I'll see what

00:12:10 ◼   ► happens

00:12:11 ◼   ► and I think that's fair like it's like

00:12:15 ◼   ► damnit what do you see is it's it's just

00:12:18 ◼   ► it comes to this for me it comes into

00:12:19 ◼   ► the strange middle ground between being

00:12:21 ◼   ► like strictly rational and somewhat

00:12:25 ◼   ► emotional like I have an affinity to it

00:12:29 ◼   ► that is not just logical it's not just

00:12:32 ◼   ► like oh it makes sense to go here like I

00:12:35 ◼   ► have good reasons that I can justify to

00:12:37 ◼   ► myself and I think there are real

00:12:38 ◼   ► reasons for like I need to go and talk

00:12:39 ◼   ► to people in the labs that are good but

00:12:42 ◼   ► if I didn't get a ticket it would be sad

00:12:46 ◼   ► in a way that it's just emotional like I

00:12:48 ◼   ► remember you know it was 2009 was my

00:12:51 ◼   ► first WWDC yeah me too and like I

00:12:53 ◼   ► remember how exciting that felt and

00:12:57 ◼   ► there's a certain amount of nostalgia or

00:12:59 ◼   ► and just like affinity that I have for

00:13:02 ◼   ► the event where I think about it and

00:13:03 ◼   ► it's just it's just kind of fun like

00:13:06 ◼   ► it's everybody there like loves and

00:13:09 ◼   ► cares about the same things that I love

00:13:11 ◼   ► and care about they're all doing the

00:13:13 ◼   ► same job like it's a really fun

00:13:15 ◼   ► environment to be in and that emotional

00:13:18 ◼   ► part of just like

00:13:20 ◼   ► every time I mean I've been to it for

00:13:21 ◼   ► years but I still like when we you know

00:13:23 ◼   ► you finally comes right before the

00:13:24 ◼   ► keynote and you're kind of all

00:13:25 ◼   ► everyone's kind of you know finally

00:13:27 ◼   ► found their seats you're sitting down

00:13:29 ◼   ► like the excitement of just being there

00:13:31 ◼   ► in that room ever with everyone's kind

00:13:34 ◼   ► of waiting and anticipating like what's

00:13:35 ◼   ► gonna happen what's gonna you know

00:13:36 ◼   ► what's going to come and in some ways

00:13:39 ◼   ► like it's kind of impactful too because

00:13:42 ◼   ► the things that are bad about to Annette

00:13:43 ◼   ► be announced are potentially you like

00:13:46 ◼   ► completely like a pet could potentially

00:13:49 ◼   ► upend my business or change dramatically

00:13:51 ◼   ► what I'm planning to do for the next

00:13:52 ◼   ► three or four months and so that puts a

00:13:56 ◼   ► bit of stakes on the announcements and

00:13:58 ◼   ► so then being there for it like it just

00:13:59 ◼   ► there's such an emotional excitement

00:14:01 ◼   ► that comes from it that I think I would

00:14:04 ◼   ► miss even more than like you know I

00:14:06 ◼   ► would really be sad to not have the labs

00:14:07 ◼   ► but just to not have that feeling of

00:14:09 ◼   ► like it got it's like excitement is the

00:14:11 ◼   ► best word I have of just well I don't

00:14:13 ◼   ► love getting up and you know it's like

00:14:15 ◼   ► really early in the morning and standing

00:14:17 ◼   ► out in the San Francisco

00:14:19 ◼   ► I guess winter because it's freezing

00:14:21 ◼   ► cold and ajuna but like standing outside

00:14:24 ◼   ► in that San Francisco winter where it's

00:14:26 ◼   ► just freezing cold and you're kind of

00:14:27 ◼   ► just like mulling around for a few hours

00:14:29 ◼   ► before they let you in which who knows

00:14:31 ◼   ► maybe at this new you know Civic

00:14:33 ◼   ► Auditorium they'll have a better a

00:14:35 ◼   ► better scheme for that rather than just

00:14:36 ◼   ► like wrapping us around the block three

00:14:38 ◼   ► times but there's something exciting

00:14:41 ◼   ► about it and if you're a developer who's

00:14:44 ◼   ► never been to WWDC it's it's a hard

00:14:48 ◼   ► thing to like you know I don't even like

00:14:50 ◼   ► explain that feeling that if you're

00:14:53 ◼   ► looking at it and it's like you know

00:14:54 ◼   ► like I can get all of you much all the

00:14:56 ◼   ► information I need from just staying at

00:14:59 ◼   ► home like that is absolutely true like

00:15:01 ◼   ► there's no like a strict need to go to

00:15:03 ◼   ► WTC the videos were live streamed if you

00:15:06 ◼   ► have questions and problems and like you

00:15:08 ◼   ► know had but that was something that

00:15:09 ◼   ► would have been helpful to go to the

00:15:11 ◼   ► labs you know there are people at Apple

00:15:13 ◼   ► you can reach out to you like there's a

00:15:14 ◼   ► whole evangelism team whose job it is to

00:15:16 ◼   ► field similar types of questions but

00:15:19 ◼   ► it's just never going to be the same and

00:15:21 ◼   ► so I would encourage most people if he's

00:15:25 ◼   ► officially even ever been to try is like

00:15:27 ◼   ► put your name in and you know it's it's

00:15:30 ◼   ► ever see everyone's mileage will you

00:15:31 ◼   ► know will differ and like if you may

00:15:32 ◼   ► just find

00:15:33 ◼   ► not really your thing but for me Ivan

00:15:35 ◼   ► every year I've come back I've always

00:15:37 ◼   ► wanted to go back the next year I've

00:15:38 ◼   ► never gone to WDC and then come back and

00:15:41 ◼   ► said you know what that's probably it

00:15:43 ◼   ► for me I'm probably done like every year

00:15:45 ◼   ► I come back just more and more excited

00:15:47 ◼   ► even as things have changed like it's

00:15:50 ◼   ► been a wildly different thing you know

00:15:52 ◼   ► back in 2009 what would what would that

00:15:54 ◼   ► have been they were announcing iOS or

00:15:56 ◼   ► probably iPhone OS for something might

00:15:58 ◼   ► yeah four or five like that like it is

00:16:01 ◼   ► so much has changed since then like I

00:16:04 ◼   ► mean it's kind of the crazy things I

00:16:05 ◼   ► remember when they introduced iCloud

00:16:07 ◼   ► like that was like a big deal and one of

00:16:10 ◼   ► them or that was Steve's last

00:16:12 ◼   ► presentation or his last big one at

00:16:14 ◼   ► least yeah certainly and I mean not me

00:16:17 ◼   ► obviously that like that side of things

00:16:18 ◼   ► is even more crazy when I think about

00:16:20 ◼   ► the fact that I had sort of had the

00:16:22 ◼   ► privilege of seeing Steve Jobs keynotes

00:16:24 ◼   ► mm-hmm

00:16:26 ◼   ► like that's kind of special in a way

00:16:29 ◼   ► that's almost you know like a little

00:16:31 ◼   ► overwhelming like it was it's like some

00:16:32 ◼   ► having been able to I think I saw two or

00:16:35 ◼   ► three that he would they presented at

00:16:37 ◼   ► and just you know like seeing the legend

00:16:39 ◼   ► is is really cool so that's kind of

00:16:43 ◼   ► where I am but nothing like you say like

00:16:45 ◼   ► I'm going out either way no matter what

00:16:46 ◼   ► I will be in San Francisco from you know

00:16:49 ◼   ► it's the Sunday before to the Friday

00:16:51 ◼   ► after like I will be I will be there if

00:16:54 ◼   ► I have a ticket awesome like as you say

00:16:56 ◼   ► like it's lovely to give some structure

00:16:57 ◼   ► if I don't I don't really know what I'll

00:17:00 ◼   ► do during the day I mean I imagine I

00:17:02 ◼   ► will watch some of the sessions maybe

00:17:05 ◼   ► I'll do a bit more actual programming

00:17:07 ◼   ► rather than watching and thinking about

00:17:10 ◼   ► programming which I don't know if that's

00:17:11 ◼   ► better or worse maybe it'll be a little

00:17:13 ◼   ► easier on to socialize a bit more but

00:17:17 ◼   ► one way or the other I'm gonna be there

00:17:18 ◼   ► cuz I think even just even not being

00:17:20 ◼   ► instant like past the door and being

00:17:22 ◼   ► inside there's still something exciting

00:17:24 ◼   ► about going to a place cuz I think I

00:17:27 ◼   ► remember I think was Jason Snell I was

00:17:30 ◼   ► was talking about this where he used to

00:17:32 ◼   ► be like there were events like Macworld

00:17:35 ◼   ► Expo which were as like a place where

00:17:36 ◼   ► people could go to like be around

00:17:40 ◼   ► like-minded people like people who cared

00:17:42 ◼   ► about the same kind of things and you

00:17:43 ◼   ► there's something kind of fun and

00:17:45 ◼   ► exciting about that and now

00:17:47 ◼   ► the main event for Apple like Apple

00:17:51 ◼   ► minded people where if you you know so

00:17:53 ◼   ► if you go there and just sort of like by

00:17:54 ◼   ► osmosis we'll be surrounded by people

00:17:57 ◼   ► who care about the same stuff like it's

00:17:59 ◼   ► that one week this week in W in San

00:18:01 ◼   ► Francisco and so like I would just go

00:18:04 ◼   ► just for that just to be around these

00:18:05 ◼   ► people you know there's all these there

00:18:08 ◼   ► are many people who I only see once a

00:18:10 ◼   ► year and I see them in San Francisco

00:18:12 ◼   ► during WDC and like I have friend you

00:18:15 ◼   ► you're sort of like whole friendships

00:18:17 ◼   ► just based on that and so it's kind of

00:18:19 ◼   ► fun to just have that as a thing oh yeah

00:18:23 ◼   ► I mean that's that's why I like the idea

00:18:26 ◼   ► of not going out there at all just

00:18:29 ◼   ► didn't even occur to me that's why as

00:18:31 ◼   ► soon as the date was firmly announced

00:18:33 ◼   ► yesterday I booked the flight yeah and I

00:18:35 ◼   ► don't know if I'm gonna have the

00:18:36 ◼   ► conference badge or not yet but I booked

00:18:38 ◼   ► the flight and I booked the hotel months

00:18:39 ◼   ► ago cuz hotels are easily cancelable for

00:18:41 ◼   ► no money and so like I booked the stuff

00:18:44 ◼   ► because the the idea of not going never

00:18:46 ◼   ► even entered my mind of course I'm going

00:18:47 ◼   ► this is like this is the one conference

00:18:50 ◼   ► that happens every year that it is like

00:18:54 ◼   ► a fixed block on my calendar it is

00:18:56 ◼   ► non-negotiable like it would take a lot

00:18:59 ◼   ► for me not to go like it would have to

00:19:02 ◼   ► be like some like massive family event

00:19:04 ◼   ► like having a baby like then I wouldn't

00:19:06 ◼   ► go but otherwise like it would be it

00:19:09 ◼   ► would take a lot for me not to go to

00:19:10 ◼   ► this whether I have taken or not and at

00:19:12 ◼   ► you know the a little bit more on having

00:19:15 ◼   ► tickets or not in a second but first I

00:19:18 ◼   ► wanted to thank our sponsor this week we

00:19:20 ◼   ► respond to this week we decided to do

00:19:22 ◼   ► something a little different this week

00:19:23 ◼   ► respond to this week by ourselves and

00:19:25 ◼   ► our own apps because we both have apps

00:19:28 ◼   ► that you can buy and it turns out we

00:19:30 ◼   ► have a way to advertise for fairly low

00:19:32 ◼   ► money here because we don't have to pay

00:19:34 ◼   ► ourselves and we haven't has for our own

00:19:35 ◼   ► stuff so my half of this advertisement

00:19:38 ◼   ► is please I would love it if you can

00:19:41 ◼   ► give overcast a try and if you're

00:19:42 ◼   ► already an overcast user and if you're

00:19:44 ◼   ► on a patron yet I'd love it if you could

00:19:45 ◼   ► become a patron you get a cool dark mode

00:19:47 ◼   ► and you get to support the service and

00:19:49 ◼   ► support server cost and stuff like that

00:19:51 ◼   ► and my amazing extravagant lifestyle so

00:19:54 ◼   ► David I would like to encourage you if

00:19:58 ◼   ► you do not already to try one of my

00:20:00 ◼   ► fitness

00:20:01 ◼   ► and wellness apps so I make a couple of

00:20:03 ◼   ► apps they tend to have a plus plus at

00:20:05 ◼   ► the end of them there's pedometer plus

00:20:06 ◼   ► plus to the plus plus an activity plus

00:20:07 ◼   ► plus apps that helps you measure and

00:20:10 ◼   ► understand your fitness and level of

00:20:13 ◼   ► activity throughout the day and

00:20:14 ◼   ► hopefully help you to make more active

00:20:16 ◼   ► choices and so if you haven't already

00:20:19 ◼   ► please go check what either something

00:20:21 ◼   ► with some of those apps out or Marco's

00:20:22 ◼   ► overcast and you give us a give us a try

00:20:25 ◼   ► and support us that way it's just a if

00:20:27 ◼   ► you listen to this and you like the way

00:20:28 ◼   ► we speak maybe you like the things we

00:20:30 ◼   ► make to thanks so if you're playing

00:20:33 ◼   ► going into everybody see without a

00:20:35 ◼   ► ticket there are a couple things that I

00:20:37 ◼   ► would add to this just a little bit so

00:20:39 ◼   ► first of all I agree with you David I'm

00:20:40 ◼   ► a little concerned about what the heck I

00:20:43 ◼   ► would do all day the good thing is there

00:20:46 ◼   ► are a lot of people who go out there

00:20:48 ◼   ► without tickets and so there are like

00:20:50 ◼   ► little gatherings some sometimes like

00:20:52 ◼   ► some some of the local companies like I

00:20:54 ◼   ► think Twitter hosted the keynote

00:20:56 ◼   ► watching party last year was that right

00:20:58 ◼   ► that sounds right yeah and so like

00:21:00 ◼   ► sometimes like local San Francisco

00:21:01 ◼   ► companies who have offices in the area

00:21:02 ◼   ► will will host developer get-togethers

00:21:05 ◼   ► and meetups and little events to watch

00:21:07 ◼   ► some of the live streams a lot of some

00:21:09 ◼   ► people will just watch them like they'll

00:21:11 ◼   ► like rent a little conference room in

00:21:12 ◼   ► the hotel that they're in and just like

00:21:14 ◼   ► have like a small gathering people to

00:21:15 ◼   ► watch them there or people will just

00:21:17 ◼   ► watch them privately in little groups of

00:21:19 ◼   ► like two or three friends together so

00:21:21 ◼   ► there are a lot of people who go out

00:21:22 ◼   ► there the only thing is if you if you

00:21:24 ◼   ► already know people you already like

00:21:26 ◼   ► have established friends and contacts

00:21:29 ◼   ► who will be there it's a lot easier if

00:21:31 ◼   ► you're going out there and you don't

00:21:32 ◼   ► know anybody yet I highly suggest trying

00:21:34 ◼   ► to get that ticket because it's a lot

00:21:36 ◼   ► it's it's not that it can't be done to

00:21:39 ◼   ► go out there without knowing anybody and

00:21:40 ◼   ► find people and make new friends but

00:21:42 ◼   ► it's a lot harder if you don't have a

00:21:44 ◼   ► ticket because if you're in the

00:21:45 ◼   ► conference building then you're gonna be

00:21:47 ◼   ► walking around and everybody around you

00:21:48 ◼   ► is gonna be an iOS developer or Mac

00:21:50 ◼   ► developer or a soon-to-be iOS or my

00:21:53 ◼   ► developer everyone around he's gonna be

00:21:55 ◼   ► part of that social group there and

00:21:57 ◼   ► there's gonna be so many other people

00:21:58 ◼   ► there who you know in the building who

00:22:01 ◼   ► are looking to meet people looking to

00:22:02 ◼   ► socialize and looking to make new

00:22:04 ◼   ► friends looking to MIT to make contacts

00:22:05 ◼   ► whereas if you're walking around the

00:22:07 ◼   ► streets or sitting in a hotel room it's

00:22:09 ◼   ► harder again it can be done but it's

00:22:12 ◼   ► harder so if it's your first time out

00:22:14 ◼   ► there if you don't have a lot of fun

00:22:15 ◼   ► already in the in the community I do

00:22:17 ◼   ► highly suggest tryna get that ticket it

00:22:19 ◼   ► will help a lot and otherwise if you're

00:22:23 ◼   ► if you are regardless of whether you

00:22:25 ◼   ► know anybody out there or not if you're

00:22:27 ◼   ► going out there to to hang out and to

00:22:29 ◼   ► meet new people don't be afraid to go up

00:22:33 ◼   ► to people who you see who you recognize

00:22:35 ◼   ► if they're you know well-known

00:22:37 ◼   ► developers or podcasters or bloggers

00:22:39 ◼   ► that ever go up to them and say hi do

00:22:42 ◼   ► not be the person who sits back in it

00:22:44 ◼   ► and then tweets later oh I saw John

00:22:46 ◼   ► Gruber today but I was too scared to say

00:22:48 ◼   ► hi because you know what all of us like

00:22:51 ◼   ► people who who you might know in this

00:22:52 ◼   ► community we're all just normal people

00:22:53 ◼   ► you don't have it's not like we're Brad

00:22:55 ◼   ► Pitt you don't have to like be worried

00:22:57 ◼   ► about coming up and saying hi cuz like

00:22:58 ◼   ► it's really cool for us to have anybody

00:23:01 ◼   ► in real life know who we are because

00:23:04 ◼   ► that's amazing

00:23:05 ◼   ► because every day is not like that and

00:23:07 ◼   ► so go up to people I think you will find

00:23:11 ◼   ► that this is a very friendly community

00:23:13 ◼   ► and we are all know the vast majority of

00:23:17 ◼   ► us are all socially awkward geeks and so

00:23:21 ◼   ► you know if you are worried if you are a

00:23:23 ◼   ► socially awkward geek you don't need to

00:23:25 ◼   ► be worried about that because all of us

00:23:27 ◼   ► are and we are very welcoming and you

00:23:31 ◼   ► know we will we are likely just as

00:23:33 ◼   ► nervous trying to have conversations

00:23:35 ◼   ► with people we don't know as you might

00:23:36 ◼   ► be but please come up and talk to

00:23:39 ◼   ► anybody you find who you recognize also

00:23:42 ◼   ► don't be afraid to you know to at reply

00:23:45 ◼   ► you know if to mention people on Twitter

00:23:47 ◼   ► to ask people like hey you know where's

00:23:49 ◼   ► where are you hanging out tonight like

00:23:50 ◼   ► you know like what are there any good

00:23:52 ◼   ► parties that you might know or any good

00:23:54 ◼   ► gatherings that that are public or

00:23:56 ◼   ► whatever like if you were if you need

00:23:58 ◼   ► access into a certain group of social a

00:24:01 ◼   ► certain social community or group of

00:24:03 ◼   ► friends who you're trying to meet or you

00:24:05 ◼   ► know certain developer a certain ride or

00:24:07 ◼   ► whatever else you you know you can you

00:24:10 ◼   ► can be a little forthcoming you know you

00:24:12 ◼   ► don't have to like stalk anybody but

00:24:13 ◼   ► like you can be a little forthcoming

00:24:14 ◼   ► because this is ultimately a very open

00:24:17 ◼   ► community open to new people welcoming

00:24:20 ◼   ► of new people and and there's so many

00:24:23 ◼   ► people out there who are all you know

00:24:25 ◼   ► we're all basically the same kind of

00:24:27 ◼   ► person you know we all like

00:24:29 ◼   ► the same stuff we are many of us has a

00:24:31 ◼   ► set our geeks and we all like to say hi

00:24:34 ◼   ► to people who share a common interest so

00:24:36 ◼   ► it's totally okay to be a little forward

00:24:39 ◼   ► socially in meeting people when you're

00:24:41 ◼   ► out there yeah because I think and it's

00:24:43 ◼   ► just to jump on it extend that to is I

00:24:47 ◼   ► remember clearly that first year going

00:24:51 ◼   ► out to WDC and knowing nobody like I I

00:24:56 ◼   ► didn't I don't think I couldn't think of

00:24:59 ◼   ► one person that I knew when I was going

00:25:01 ◼   ► out there and I did at this point my

00:25:03 ◼   ► apps weren't well particularly well

00:25:04 ◼   ► known it wasn't like I had a podcast or

00:25:07 ◼   ► a blog or something that something

00:25:08 ◼   ► something that people would know me by

00:25:09 ◼   ► like I was so fairly new to this and I

00:25:12 ◼   ► just remember but I still had people

00:25:14 ◼   ► that I admired people that I respected

00:25:16 ◼   ► that I had in the back of my mind to

00:25:19 ◼   ► like how cool would it be to meet these

00:25:21 ◼   ► people and it was it took a lot of

00:25:25 ◼   ► effort and I remember it being very

00:25:26 ◼   ► difficult to force myself to not just

00:25:30 ◼   ► like go back to my hotel room every

00:25:33 ◼   ► night and go to sleep

00:25:35 ◼   ► I'm horde heifer like I just work on my

00:25:36 ◼   ► code or like things like that like it

00:25:38 ◼   ► was so it was so easy and always it like

00:25:41 ◼   ► the path of least resistance is always

00:25:43 ◼   ► like you know what I could go to this

00:25:45 ◼   ► event or I could go and just hang out

00:25:47 ◼   ► and most you know like at the Moscone

00:25:49 ◼   ► Center um I could do that or I could not

00:25:53 ◼   ► and I could just have dinner by myself

00:25:54 ◼   ► and then go back to my hotel room and

00:25:57 ◼   ► some nights I would have the courage to

00:26:01 ◼   ► go and like go out and some nights I

00:26:04 ◼   ► didn't and the reality though looking

00:26:07 ◼   ► back is I wouldn't have the friends I

00:26:10 ◼   ► have now and the connections I have in

00:26:12 ◼   ► our community if every night I had just

00:26:15 ◼   ► gone had dinner by myself and then went

00:26:17 ◼   ► back to my hotel that like I have dear

00:26:21 ◼   ► and precious friends to me now who I got

00:26:23 ◼   ► to know because at some point I you know

00:26:28 ◼   ► went up to somebody and said hi I'm

00:26:30 ◼   ► David Smith I love your work you know

00:26:33 ◼   ► and it's a pleasure to meet you like to

00:26:35 ◼   ► you know there are so many people who I

00:26:37 ◼   ► just admired and respected who then I

00:26:40 ◼   ► that's how I met that way I mean in a

00:26:41 ◼   ► weird Sweden they say like

00:26:43 ◼   ► how I met you Marco yeah I remember in

00:26:44 ◼   ► further w like i remember meeting you at

00:26:47 ◼   ► WTC and you know who i would that if I

00:26:50 ◼   ► had like if I could have told my future

00:26:53 ◼   ► like my past self like in a couple years

00:26:55 ◼   ► to be doing a podcast with Marco like it

00:26:58 ◼   ► would have sounded completely absurd to

00:27:00 ◼   ► me like at this point I think I was like

00:27:01 ◼   ► I was a big build an analyze fan and it

00:27:03 ◼   ► was this kind of cool thing and you

00:27:05 ◼   ► never know where how these things are

00:27:06 ◼   ► gonna play out and you just never know

00:27:08 ◼   ► but if you don't a have if you don't

00:27:10 ◼   ► serve just like you know what I'm gonna

00:27:11 ◼   ► do this it doesn't feel good but I know

00:27:14 ◼   ► that it will end up better like flossing

00:27:17 ◼   ► yeah whatever exactly meeting us is like

00:27:20 ◼   ► flossing

00:27:21 ◼   ► exactly it's it was such a wonderful

00:27:24 ◼   ► analogy but I definitely would encourage

00:27:27 ◼   ► people to do that and like sometimes

00:27:29 ◼   ► it'll work sometimes it won't like in

00:27:30 ◼   ► terms of sometimes you'll have really

00:27:32 ◼   ► awkward interactions that feel like it's

00:27:34 ◼   ► like man that will it didn't really go

00:27:35 ◼   ► well but other times it really will and

00:27:38 ◼   ► it's the kind of thing like there's no

00:27:40 ◼   ► there's no like magic answer for

00:27:41 ◼   ► socializing it's not like oh here's

00:27:43 ◼   ► these three things that you should do

00:27:44 ◼   ► but it's the kind of thing that you just

00:27:46 ◼   ► keep doing and then you'll look back on

00:27:49 ◼   ► and see how those upper to know how

00:27:51 ◼   ► those moments of just being like you

00:27:54 ◼   ► know what I'm gonna go up and say hello

00:27:56 ◼   ► well eventually you do it enough it gets

00:27:59 ◼   ► easier and it starts to build some real

00:28:02 ◼   ► connections that you know you can look

00:28:04 ◼   ► back on and kind of just be amazed yeah

00:28:07 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to so you know this

00:28:09 ◼   ► goes you know it's I guess the all the

00:28:11 ◼   ► time we have for this week thank you for

00:28:14 ◼   ► everybody for listening I hope that if

00:28:16 ◼   ► you have the the means and opportunity

00:28:19 ◼   ► to consider going to WTC I hope you

00:28:23 ◼   ► register to get a ticket because you

00:28:24 ◼   ► have to do that basically now to to have

00:28:27 ◼   ► a chance of getting it for everybody who

00:28:29 ◼   ► registered who who who really needs that

00:28:31 ◼   ► ticket to go I hope you get one and I

00:28:35 ◼   ► look forward to seeing everybody this

00:28:37 ◼   ► year yeah I imagine you'll be able to

00:28:39 ◼   ► find one way or the other you have to

00:28:41 ◼   ► find Marco and I in San Francisco so if

00:28:43 ◼   ► you see us by all means say hi you

00:28:46 ◼   ► definitely spot David by the color of

00:28:48 ◼   ► his shirt it's usually very bright and

00:28:51 ◼   ► blue exactly basically the brighter

00:28:54 ◼   ► version of the color of OS 10 folders

00:28:56 ◼   ► is that about right it's a powerhead

00:28:58 ◼   ► yeah or maybe I think the better one to

00:29:00 ◼   ► go for is it's if you if you have one of

00:29:02 ◼   ► those blue developer watches that Apple

00:29:05 ◼   ► watch if you know Apple put out when ya

00:29:08 ◼   ► was first introduced if you see

00:29:09 ◼   ► something that's that blue that's

00:29:11 ◼   ► probably me exactly

00:29:13 ◼   ► alright thanks for listening everybody

00:29:15 ◼   ► and always floss and we will talk to you

00:29:18 ◼   ► next week bye

00:29:19 ◼   ► I don't floss