Under the Radar

Under the Radar 24: Should You Register for a WWDC Ticket?


00:00:00   welcome to under the radar a show about

00:00:02   independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:04   Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

00:00:06   the radar is never longer than 30

00:00:07   minutes so let's get started so today we

00:00:10   wanted to talk about WWDC it was just

00:00:13   announced as we record it was just

00:00:15   announced a little less than a day ago

00:00:17   and we wanted to talk about whether you

00:00:20   want to go or not because right now

00:00:21   they're doing this kind of lottery

00:00:22   system just like in the last couple of

00:00:24   years where you can you can register to

00:00:27   get a ticket and you have to commit to

00:00:30   buy it to register and then if they if

00:00:33   you if you win the lottery and if you

00:00:35   get awarded a ticket they charge your

00:00:37   credit card that you've registered with

00:00:38   them it's not refundable so you

00:00:40   basically have to like pre-commit $1,600

00:00:43   to potentially getting this ticket if

00:00:46   you want a chance of getting one at all

00:00:47   so this raises the obvious question for

00:00:49   a lot of us of well do I do I want to

00:00:51   try for this or not and David I'm

00:00:54   curious did you register and if so why I

00:00:57   did I have a lot of reasons why I

00:01:00   registered for WDC it's I it's very

00:01:05   important for me personally and some of

00:01:06   these things will only apply to the way

00:01:08   that I run like my business and the way

00:01:10   my business is structured but for me WDC

00:01:14   is a very unique opportunity like the

00:01:16   actual event going to it beyond just

00:01:19   like the the things that I could do at

00:01:21   home you know like there's I think this

00:01:23   year for the they're going to be

00:01:25   live-streaming the sessions in past

00:01:27   years it's been the videos were

00:01:28   available a few hours later and so if

00:01:30   you were just going wanting to go to the

00:01:32   conference if you were just want to get

00:01:33   the information that's presented from

00:01:35   stage there's really no need to go to

00:01:37   WDC there's no reason to go to San

00:01:39   Francisco like you could just do that at

00:01:41   home for me though

00:01:43   the thing about WDC that makes me want

00:01:46   to go like there's the there's the main

00:01:47   reason and there's like a kind of a

00:01:49   secondary reason the main reason for me

00:01:50   is the labs so every year at WCC it's

00:01:53   kind of the way it's structured just

00:01:54   probably is good to have a bit of a

00:01:55   quick overview there's like on Monday

00:01:57   and this week this year it's from I

00:02:00   think the 13th to the 18th of June now

00:02:03   on the Monday they'll have kind of like

00:02:04   the big keynote addresses in the morning

00:02:07   there's usually the like the executive

00:02:08   one so you know where Tim Koch and Phil

00:02:11   Schiller and those kind of

00:02:12   people will come up on stage and give

00:02:14   the broad strokes of Apple's vision for

00:02:17   you know then the next generation of

00:02:19   their software typically you know so

00:02:22   what's coming in iOS so is 10 watch OST

00:02:24   vos like the big high-level things we'll

00:02:26   break for lunch and then they'll have

00:02:28   the developer State of the Union type of

00:02:30   thing where they talk in greater

00:02:33   technical depth about in all the things

00:02:35   that were said in the morning and then

00:02:36   the rest of the week

00:02:37   Tuesday through Friday is broken up into

00:02:40   there'll be sessions which are you know

00:02:43   sort of powerful or keynote

00:02:44   presentations talking about the various

00:02:47   technologies that are introduced or

00:02:49   things that are new things that you want

00:02:50   to learn about and those are gonna be

00:02:52   live streamed and available and then

00:02:54   downstairs yeah at most the Moscone West

00:02:57   Center where it's held they have the

00:02:59   labs which are we're a bunch of Apple

00:03:02   engineers essentially I think they

00:03:03   usually say it's something like about a

00:03:05   thousand engineers are on hand in very

00:03:07   at various times throughout the week

00:03:08   we'll sit down and they'll have sort of

00:03:11   office hours where you can come in and

00:03:12   talk to people on the various technical

00:03:15   teams so say I'm having a problem with

00:03:17   core emotion I can go to the core

00:03:18   emotion lab and I can sit down and I can

00:03:20   talk to somebody who either wrote the

00:03:23   API is that I'm working with or knows

00:03:25   the person who did and for me that's the

00:03:30   part that is completely irreplaceable

00:03:32   and in some ways honestly kind of

00:03:34   essential for the way I do my business

00:03:36   because I have kind of made a living on

00:03:39   looking at Apple's newest platforms and

00:03:41   their newest technologies and being one

00:03:44   of the first people to adopt them in

00:03:46   whatever form that looks like you know

00:03:48   so whenever there's a new like I just

00:03:50   did with activity plus plus like there

00:03:51   was this new API for active accessing

00:03:53   activity data I submitted my app the

00:03:55   moment it was possible to do that and

00:03:57   you know that works out and for me WDC

00:04:00   is this tremendous opportunity to go and

00:04:02   talk to people about not really like the

00:04:04   what of what was announced like things

00:04:07   think things did you get from the video

00:04:08   where they say like here's the five new

00:04:10   api's here's the new things here's

00:04:11   what's going on but being able to go and

00:04:13   talk to an engineer about it's kind of

00:04:15   why and to be able to say like well this

00:04:18   is like I think I can go and I can but

00:04:21   I'll tend to do is I'll sit down and

00:04:23   kind of bang out a really rough

00:04:24   prototype of something

00:04:25   I'm thinking about maybe working on this

00:04:27   summer go ahead down to the lab and be

00:04:28   like hey this is how I'm doing it and is

00:04:31   this a reasonable approach like nothing

00:04:33   even more specific than is this a

00:04:34   reasonable approach and you will often

00:04:36   be from conversations than with those

00:04:38   engineers you can understand why they're

00:04:39   doing things the way they are and for me

00:04:42   that's kind of essential and I'm ready

00:04:45   to register for ticket I got my fingers

00:04:46   crossed that he'll be one of the ones

00:04:47   who's been selected for that reason and

00:04:51   then secondarily and a bit more

00:04:53   amusingly I love going to wvc because

00:04:55   it's almost like every year

00:04:58   being at an iOS developer there are a

00:05:00   lot of things that are frustrating there

00:05:02   are a lot of things that are challenging

00:05:02   and that can kind of wear on you after a

00:05:07   while

00:05:07   and the thing with about WB DC is I've

00:05:10   been I had the privilege of going I

00:05:11   think six times before six or seven it's

00:05:14   quite a few and every time I go I always

00:05:17   leave that BBC feeling excited motivated

00:05:21   and just kind of like jazzed about the

00:05:23   platform and the cool things that are

00:05:25   coming and it you could say it's kind of

00:05:27   like going big it's like I go to San

00:05:29   Francisco and I drink the kool-aid again

00:05:30   and that's kind of like the negative way

00:05:32   to look at it or you could just say like

00:05:33   it's it's a time to go and reconnect

00:05:37   with the things that originally made me

00:05:38   so excited for this platform and kind of

00:05:40   wash away some of the things that may

00:05:42   have been frustrating in the previous

00:05:43   year and kind of recenter and focus on

00:05:46   okay you know what's gonna happen the

00:05:48   next year and so for me the $1,600 and

00:05:51   throwing my name in the Hat like just

00:05:53   makes perfect sense yeah I mean I have

00:05:55   mostly the same kind of feelings about

00:05:57   it

00:05:58   I also registered and I also you know

00:06:01   put down the potential $1,600 to

00:06:03   potentially get a ticket for me it's

00:06:06   it's it's mostly about the community

00:06:10   side at this point because the technical

00:06:12   stuff is you know while it is strong and

00:06:16   it is very good you also don't you know

00:06:19   increasingly you have to be there less

00:06:21   and less to get it because every year

00:06:24   you know it used to be back in the olden

00:06:26   days back when you could sell apps for

00:06:28   money it used to be that they they would

00:06:30   they would put up the videos like three

00:06:34   months after the conference or something

00:06:35   like that and then every year as as the

00:06:39   as the conference has has become more

00:06:41   and more oversold and overcapacity

00:06:44   they've tried to address that issue of

00:06:47   like there's so many people who want to

00:06:48   be there but just can't get a ticket

00:06:50   because there aren't enough or they

00:06:51   can't get out there for scheduling the

00:06:53   work reasons or the other problem is

00:06:55   it's just a lot of money and a lot of

00:06:58   people cannot afford to put down the

00:07:00   probably all in four thousand dollars

00:07:03   that you'll that you'll be in to to do

00:07:05   this trip something like that because a

00:07:07   big part of which is the hotel but see

00:07:09   how that goes so it's a lot of money

00:07:13   it's a it's you know a week off of work

00:07:15   that you have to go do this so a lot of

00:07:16   people can't be there so what they've

00:07:17   been doing is making the videos

00:07:20   available earlier and earlier to the

00:07:23   point where oh and also dropping the

00:07:25   requirement that even had to be a paying

00:07:28   developer member to even watch them that

00:07:30   used to be the case now any developer

00:07:32   can watch them for free and you don't

00:07:35   have to have been there you don't need

00:07:36   the hundred dollar full membership level

00:07:39   any any developer can watch these videos

00:07:41   and the videos himself have gotten

00:07:43   better they have transcripts and that's

00:07:44   searchable and all that stuff and the

00:07:46   production value has gone up and

00:07:47   everything and they are now releasing

00:07:49   them so fast last year they were

00:07:51   released like within a day or so of them

00:07:54   of the talks happening and this year

00:07:56   they're saying as you mentioned this

00:07:58   year they're gonna be live broadcast in

00:08:00   them which has never happened before for

00:08:01   anything beyond the initial keynote so

00:08:05   increasingly there's less and less

00:08:07   reason why you need to be there as a

00:08:09   developer and that's why if I you know

00:08:12   in past years I have been so scared that

00:08:15   I wouldn't get a ticket and I've been

00:08:17   very lucky that for the last seven years

00:08:19   I have gotten a ticket and all the one

00:08:22   year I had to sign up to developer

00:08:24   accounts two together but this year if I

00:08:28   don't get a ticket I don't think I'm

00:08:31   gonna be as disappointed and I'm still

00:08:33   gonna go and and there's a whole

00:08:35   question of like whether you should go

00:08:36   out to San Francisco for that week

00:08:38   anyway even if you don't get a ticket

00:08:40   cuz there are other things to do there

00:08:42   are other events that people put on just

00:08:44   not Apple but you know there's other

00:08:46   conferences there's the layers

00:08:47   conference there's alt conf there's a

00:08:50   lot of like meetups and user groups and

00:08:52   there's just all

00:08:52   these developers who were all in town

00:08:54   that week and so there's lots of social

00:08:56   events if you have any developer friends

00:08:58   or if you just go to a bar near Moscone

00:09:00   you will find developers and you can

00:09:02   make developer friends and so there's

00:09:04   there's a lot of reasons to be there

00:09:06   regardless so if I don't get a ticket

00:09:08   this year I think what I will miss the

00:09:12   most is kind of the the fun of like

00:09:16   being in the building and like going to

00:09:19   sessions live and and go into the

00:09:22   keynote waiting with waiting with you

00:09:23   and John and Casey in line and and like

00:09:27   doing all that stuff

00:09:28   well I really miss the line maybe it's

00:09:31   part of the fun I'll miss the

00:09:33   camaraderie of the line but maybe not

00:09:35   the duration of it but you know

00:09:37   ultimately I will have fun that week out

00:09:41   there regardless of whether I get a

00:09:43   ticket or not so the ticket will

00:09:44   basically if I get the ticket the value

00:09:47   of it is in structuring my day and

00:09:50   giving me a place I have to be all day

00:09:52   every day and and a venue to go to and

00:09:54   and things to see and and talks to see

00:09:57   and and kind of the the the focus of

00:10:02   having it be like my only job this week

00:10:05   is to watch these sessions and then

00:10:07   socialize at night but you know my my

00:10:09   primary job this week is to watch these

00:10:11   sessions live because when they post the

00:10:13   videos afterwards it's a little harder

00:10:16   to find the time to sit down and do it

00:10:17   because if you're just sitting at home

00:10:19   in your office you have all sorts of

00:10:22   other work to do you might have a family

00:10:24   to also take care of so like your whole

00:10:26   life is is pressuring you during all

00:10:30   other times of the year that you should

00:10:32   probably be doing something else rather

00:10:33   than sitting and watching a whole bunch

00:10:34   of videos for api's and stuff that you

00:10:37   might not even be using yet that you

00:10:38   might just think might be interesting

00:10:40   you know when are you gonna find him to

00:10:41   do that well if you're there your job is

00:10:44   to go to those things that is the reason

00:10:45   you're there you have that time kind of

00:10:47   carved out and that is what your focus

00:10:49   is if you if you're not there or if

00:10:51   you're there without a ticket it's less

00:10:52   focused so I feel like I will miss that

00:10:54   that kind of focus and forced attention

00:10:59   on on the sessions because that's a good

00:11:01   thing however probably the biggest thing

00:11:04   I would miss would be

00:11:06   the Mosconi sandwiches no just kidding

00:11:08   it'll be the labs it would be you know

00:11:11   as you know as as you mentioned like

00:11:12   having the labs having access to the

00:11:16   Apple engineers has not always but has

00:11:21   reasonably frequently provided me with

00:11:23   pretty good information oftentimes very

00:11:26   good information so I that is the part I

00:11:30   would miss the most if I don't get a

00:11:31   ticket but the rest of the conference I

00:11:35   feel like if you've if you've gone to

00:11:37   them for a few years you kind of know

00:11:38   what it is assuming they don't change it

00:11:40   you know Matt massively which is not

00:11:43   necessarily a safe assumption because

00:11:44   they are already doing like the keynote

00:11:46   at the Bill Graham auditorium and so

00:11:48   what we're gonna see like there there's

00:11:49   some changes in the event here but I

00:11:51   feel like I've gotten so much out of it

00:11:54   in previous years that maybe it's time

00:11:57   for a break I don't know I don't know I

00:12:00   think I'm certainly conflicted on the

00:12:03   issue that's why like if if I do get a

00:12:05   ticket okay well I don't need to think

00:12:07   about it for another year and if I don't

00:12:08   get a ticket I guess I'll see what

00:12:10   happens

00:12:11   and I think that's fair like it's like

00:12:15   damnit what do you see is it's it's just

00:12:18   it comes to this for me it comes into

00:12:19   the strange middle ground between being

00:12:21   like strictly rational and somewhat

00:12:25   emotional like I have an affinity to it

00:12:29   that is not just logical it's not just

00:12:32   like oh it makes sense to go here like I

00:12:35   have good reasons that I can justify to

00:12:37   myself and I think there are real

00:12:38   reasons for like I need to go and talk

00:12:39   to people in the labs that are good but

00:12:42   if I didn't get a ticket it would be sad

00:12:46   in a way that it's just emotional like I

00:12:48   remember you know it was 2009 was my

00:12:51   first WWDC yeah me too and like I

00:12:53   remember how exciting that felt and

00:12:57   there's a certain amount of nostalgia or

00:12:59   and just like affinity that I have for

00:13:02   the event where I think about it and

00:13:03   it's just it's just kind of fun like

00:13:06   it's everybody there like loves and

00:13:09   cares about the same things that I love

00:13:11   and care about they're all doing the

00:13:13   same job like it's a really fun

00:13:15   environment to be in and that emotional

00:13:18   part of just like

00:13:20   every time I mean I've been to it for

00:13:21   years but I still like when we you know

00:13:23   you finally comes right before the

00:13:24   keynote and you're kind of all

00:13:25   everyone's kind of you know finally

00:13:27   found their seats you're sitting down

00:13:29   like the excitement of just being there

00:13:31   in that room ever with everyone's kind

00:13:34   of waiting and anticipating like what's

00:13:35   gonna happen what's gonna you know

00:13:36   what's going to come and in some ways

00:13:39   like it's kind of impactful too because

00:13:42   the things that are bad about to Annette

00:13:43   be announced are potentially you like

00:13:46   completely like a pet could potentially

00:13:49   upend my business or change dramatically

00:13:51   what I'm planning to do for the next

00:13:52   three or four months and so that puts a

00:13:56   bit of stakes on the announcements and

00:13:58   so then being there for it like it just

00:13:59   there's such an emotional excitement

00:14:01   that comes from it that I think I would

00:14:04   miss even more than like you know I

00:14:06   would really be sad to not have the labs

00:14:07   but just to not have that feeling of

00:14:09   like it got it's like excitement is the

00:14:11   best word I have of just well I don't

00:14:13   love getting up and you know it's like

00:14:15   really early in the morning and standing

00:14:17   out in the San Francisco

00:14:19   I guess winter because it's freezing

00:14:21   cold and ajuna but like standing outside

00:14:24   in that San Francisco winter where it's

00:14:26   just freezing cold and you're kind of

00:14:27   just like mulling around for a few hours

00:14:29   before they let you in which who knows

00:14:31   maybe at this new you know Civic

00:14:33   Auditorium they'll have a better a

00:14:35   better scheme for that rather than just

00:14:36   like wrapping us around the block three

00:14:38   times but there's something exciting

00:14:41   about it and if you're a developer who's

00:14:44   never been to WWDC it's it's a hard

00:14:48   thing to like you know I don't even like

00:14:50   explain that feeling that if you're

00:14:53   looking at it and it's like you know

00:14:54   like I can get all of you much all the

00:14:56   information I need from just staying at

00:14:59   home like that is absolutely true like

00:15:01   there's no like a strict need to go to

00:15:03   WTC the videos were live streamed if you

00:15:06   have questions and problems and like you

00:15:08   know had but that was something that

00:15:09   would have been helpful to go to the

00:15:11   labs you know there are people at Apple

00:15:13   you can reach out to you like there's a

00:15:14   whole evangelism team whose job it is to

00:15:16   field similar types of questions but

00:15:19   it's just never going to be the same and

00:15:21   so I would encourage most people if he's

00:15:25   officially even ever been to try is like

00:15:27   put your name in and you know it's it's

00:15:30   ever see everyone's mileage will you

00:15:31   know will differ and like if you may

00:15:32   just find

00:15:33   not really your thing but for me Ivan

00:15:35   every year I've come back I've always

00:15:37   wanted to go back the next year I've

00:15:38   never gone to WDC and then come back and

00:15:41   said you know what that's probably it

00:15:43   for me I'm probably done like every year

00:15:45   I come back just more and more excited

00:15:47   even as things have changed like it's

00:15:50   been a wildly different thing you know

00:15:52   back in 2009 what would what would that

00:15:54   have been they were announcing iOS or

00:15:56   probably iPhone OS for something might

00:15:58   yeah four or five like that like it is

00:16:01   so much has changed since then like I

00:16:04   mean it's kind of the crazy things I

00:16:05   remember when they introduced iCloud

00:16:07   like that was like a big deal and one of

00:16:10   them or that was Steve's last

00:16:12   presentation or his last big one at

00:16:14   least yeah certainly and I mean not me

00:16:17   obviously that like that side of things

00:16:18   is even more crazy when I think about

00:16:20   the fact that I had sort of had the

00:16:22   privilege of seeing Steve Jobs keynotes

00:16:24   mm-hmm

00:16:26   like that's kind of special in a way

00:16:29   that's almost you know like a little

00:16:31   overwhelming like it was it's like some

00:16:32   having been able to I think I saw two or

00:16:35   three that he would they presented at

00:16:37   and just you know like seeing the legend

00:16:39   is is really cool so that's kind of

00:16:43   where I am but nothing like you say like

00:16:45   I'm going out either way no matter what

00:16:46   I will be in San Francisco from you know

00:16:49   it's the Sunday before to the Friday

00:16:51   after like I will be I will be there if

00:16:54   I have a ticket awesome like as you say

00:16:56   like it's lovely to give some structure

00:16:57   if I don't I don't really know what I'll

00:17:00   do during the day I mean I imagine I

00:17:02   will watch some of the sessions maybe

00:17:05   I'll do a bit more actual programming

00:17:07   rather than watching and thinking about

00:17:10   programming which I don't know if that's

00:17:11   better or worse maybe it'll be a little

00:17:13   easier on to socialize a bit more but

00:17:17   one way or the other I'm gonna be there

00:17:18   cuz I think even just even not being

00:17:20   instant like past the door and being

00:17:22   inside there's still something exciting

00:17:24   about going to a place cuz I think I

00:17:27   remember I think was Jason Snell I was

00:17:30   was talking about this where he used to

00:17:32   be like there were events like Macworld

00:17:35   Expo which were as like a place where

00:17:36   people could go to like be around

00:17:40   like-minded people like people who cared

00:17:42   about the same kind of things and you

00:17:43   there's something kind of fun and

00:17:45   exciting about that and now

00:17:47   the main event for Apple like Apple

00:17:51   minded people where if you you know so

00:17:53   if you go there and just sort of like by

00:17:54   osmosis we'll be surrounded by people

00:17:57   who care about the same stuff like it's

00:17:59   that one week this week in W in San

00:18:01   Francisco and so like I would just go

00:18:04   just for that just to be around these

00:18:05   people you know there's all these there

00:18:08   are many people who I only see once a

00:18:10   year and I see them in San Francisco

00:18:12   during WDC and like I have friend you

00:18:15   you're sort of like whole friendships

00:18:17   just based on that and so it's kind of

00:18:19   fun to just have that as a thing oh yeah

00:18:23   I mean that's that's why I like the idea

00:18:26   of not going out there at all just

00:18:29   didn't even occur to me that's why as

00:18:31   soon as the date was firmly announced

00:18:33   yesterday I booked the flight yeah and I

00:18:35   don't know if I'm gonna have the

00:18:36   conference badge or not yet but I booked

00:18:38   the flight and I booked the hotel months

00:18:39   ago cuz hotels are easily cancelable for

00:18:41   no money and so like I booked the stuff

00:18:44   because the the idea of not going never

00:18:46   even entered my mind of course I'm going

00:18:47   this is like this is the one conference

00:18:50   that happens every year that it is like

00:18:54   a fixed block on my calendar it is

00:18:56   non-negotiable like it would take a lot

00:18:59   for me not to go like it would have to

00:19:02   be like some like massive family event

00:19:04   like having a baby like then I wouldn't

00:19:06   go but otherwise like it would be it

00:19:09   would take a lot for me not to go to

00:19:10   this whether I have taken or not and at

00:19:12   you know the a little bit more on having

00:19:15   tickets or not in a second but first I

00:19:18   wanted to thank our sponsor this week we

00:19:20   respond to this week we decided to do

00:19:22   something a little different this week

00:19:23   respond to this week by ourselves and

00:19:25   our own apps because we both have apps

00:19:28   that you can buy and it turns out we

00:19:30   have a way to advertise for fairly low

00:19:32   money here because we don't have to pay

00:19:34   ourselves and we haven't has for our own

00:19:35   stuff so my half of this advertisement

00:19:38   is please I would love it if you can

00:19:41   give overcast a try and if you're

00:19:42   already an overcast user and if you're

00:19:44   on a patron yet I'd love it if you could

00:19:45   become a patron you get a cool dark mode

00:19:47   and you get to support the service and

00:19:49   support server cost and stuff like that

00:19:51   and my amazing extravagant lifestyle so

00:19:54   David I would like to encourage you if

00:19:58   you do not already to try one of my

00:20:00   fitness

00:20:01   and wellness apps so I make a couple of

00:20:03   apps they tend to have a plus plus at

00:20:05   the end of them there's pedometer plus

00:20:06   plus to the plus plus an activity plus

00:20:07   plus apps that helps you measure and

00:20:10   understand your fitness and level of

00:20:13   activity throughout the day and

00:20:14   hopefully help you to make more active

00:20:16   choices and so if you haven't already

00:20:19   please go check what either something

00:20:21   with some of those apps out or Marco's

00:20:22   overcast and you give us a give us a try

00:20:25   and support us that way it's just a if

00:20:27   you listen to this and you like the way

00:20:28   we speak maybe you like the things we

00:20:30   make to thanks so if you're playing

00:20:33   going into everybody see without a

00:20:35   ticket there are a couple things that I

00:20:37   would add to this just a little bit so

00:20:39   first of all I agree with you David I'm

00:20:40   a little concerned about what the heck I

00:20:43   would do all day the good thing is there

00:20:46   are a lot of people who go out there

00:20:48   without tickets and so there are like

00:20:50   little gatherings some sometimes like

00:20:52   some some of the local companies like I

00:20:54   think Twitter hosted the keynote

00:20:56   watching party last year was that right

00:20:58   that sounds right yeah and so like

00:21:00   sometimes like local San Francisco

00:21:01   companies who have offices in the area

00:21:02   will will host developer get-togethers

00:21:05   and meetups and little events to watch

00:21:07   some of the live streams a lot of some

00:21:09   people will just watch them like they'll

00:21:11   like rent a little conference room in

00:21:12   the hotel that they're in and just like

00:21:14   have like a small gathering people to

00:21:15   watch them there or people will just

00:21:17   watch them privately in little groups of

00:21:19   like two or three friends together so

00:21:21   there are a lot of people who go out

00:21:22   there the only thing is if you if you

00:21:24   already know people you already like

00:21:26   have established friends and contacts

00:21:29   who will be there it's a lot easier if

00:21:31   you're going out there and you don't

00:21:32   know anybody yet I highly suggest trying

00:21:34   to get that ticket because it's a lot

00:21:36   it's it's not that it can't be done to

00:21:39   go out there without knowing anybody and

00:21:40   find people and make new friends but

00:21:42   it's a lot harder if you don't have a

00:21:44   ticket because if you're in the

00:21:45   conference building then you're gonna be

00:21:47   walking around and everybody around you

00:21:48   is gonna be an iOS developer or Mac

00:21:50   developer or a soon-to-be iOS or my

00:21:53   developer everyone around he's gonna be

00:21:55   part of that social group there and

00:21:57   there's gonna be so many other people

00:21:58   there who you know in the building who

00:22:01   are looking to meet people looking to

00:22:02   socialize and looking to make new

00:22:04   friends looking to MIT to make contacts

00:22:05   whereas if you're walking around the

00:22:07   streets or sitting in a hotel room it's

00:22:09   harder again it can be done but it's

00:22:12   harder so if it's your first time out

00:22:14   there if you don't have a lot of fun

00:22:15   already in the in the community I do

00:22:17   highly suggest tryna get that ticket it

00:22:19   will help a lot and otherwise if you're

00:22:23   if you are regardless of whether you

00:22:25   know anybody out there or not if you're

00:22:27   going out there to to hang out and to

00:22:29   meet new people don't be afraid to go up

00:22:33   to people who you see who you recognize

00:22:35   if they're you know well-known

00:22:37   developers or podcasters or bloggers

00:22:39   that ever go up to them and say hi do

00:22:42   not be the person who sits back in it

00:22:44   and then tweets later oh I saw John

00:22:46   Gruber today but I was too scared to say

00:22:48   hi because you know what all of us like

00:22:51   people who who you might know in this

00:22:52   community we're all just normal people

00:22:53   you don't have it's not like we're Brad

00:22:55   Pitt you don't have to like be worried

00:22:57   about coming up and saying hi cuz like

00:22:58   it's really cool for us to have anybody

00:23:01   in real life know who we are because

00:23:04   that's amazing

00:23:05   because every day is not like that and

00:23:07   so go up to people I think you will find

00:23:11   that this is a very friendly community

00:23:13   and we are all know the vast majority of

00:23:17   us are all socially awkward geeks and so

00:23:21   you know if you are worried if you are a

00:23:23   socially awkward geek you don't need to

00:23:25   be worried about that because all of us

00:23:27   are and we are very welcoming and you

00:23:31   know we will we are likely just as

00:23:33   nervous trying to have conversations

00:23:35   with people we don't know as you might

00:23:36   be but please come up and talk to

00:23:39   anybody you find who you recognize also

00:23:42   don't be afraid to you know to at reply

00:23:45   you know if to mention people on Twitter

00:23:47   to ask people like hey you know where's

00:23:49   where are you hanging out tonight like

00:23:50   you know like what are there any good

00:23:52   parties that you might know or any good

00:23:54   gatherings that that are public or

00:23:56   whatever like if you were if you need

00:23:58   access into a certain group of social a

00:24:01   certain social community or group of

00:24:03   friends who you're trying to meet or you

00:24:05   know certain developer a certain ride or

00:24:07   whatever else you you know you can you

00:24:10   can be a little forthcoming you know you

00:24:12   don't have to like stalk anybody but

00:24:13   like you can be a little forthcoming

00:24:14   because this is ultimately a very open

00:24:17   community open to new people welcoming

00:24:20   of new people and and there's so many

00:24:23   people out there who are all you know

00:24:25   we're all basically the same kind of

00:24:27   person you know we all like

00:24:29   the same stuff we are many of us has a

00:24:31   set our geeks and we all like to say hi

00:24:34   to people who share a common interest so

00:24:36   it's totally okay to be a little forward

00:24:39   socially in meeting people when you're

00:24:41   out there yeah because I think and it's

00:24:43   just to jump on it extend that to is I

00:24:47   remember clearly that first year going

00:24:51   out to WDC and knowing nobody like I I

00:24:56   didn't I don't think I couldn't think of

00:24:59   one person that I knew when I was going

00:25:01   out there and I did at this point my

00:25:03   apps weren't well particularly well

00:25:04   known it wasn't like I had a podcast or

00:25:07   a blog or something that something

00:25:08   something that people would know me by

00:25:09   like I was so fairly new to this and I

00:25:12   just remember but I still had people

00:25:14   that I admired people that I respected

00:25:16   that I had in the back of my mind to

00:25:19   like how cool would it be to meet these

00:25:21   people and it was it took a lot of

00:25:25   effort and I remember it being very

00:25:26   difficult to force myself to not just

00:25:30   like go back to my hotel room every

00:25:33   night and go to sleep

00:25:35   I'm horde heifer like I just work on my

00:25:36   code or like things like that like it

00:25:38   was so it was so easy and always it like

00:25:41   the path of least resistance is always

00:25:43   like you know what I could go to this

00:25:45   event or I could go and just hang out

00:25:47   and most you know like at the Moscone

00:25:49   Center um I could do that or I could not

00:25:53   and I could just have dinner by myself

00:25:54   and then go back to my hotel room and

00:25:57   some nights I would have the courage to

00:26:01   go and like go out and some nights I

00:26:04   didn't and the reality though looking

00:26:07   back is I wouldn't have the friends I

00:26:10   have now and the connections I have in

00:26:12   our community if every night I had just

00:26:15   gone had dinner by myself and then went

00:26:17   back to my hotel that like I have dear

00:26:21   and precious friends to me now who I got

00:26:23   to know because at some point I you know

00:26:28   went up to somebody and said hi I'm

00:26:30   David Smith I love your work you know

00:26:33   and it's a pleasure to meet you like to

00:26:35   you know there are so many people who I

00:26:37   just admired and respected who then I

00:26:40   that's how I met that way I mean in a

00:26:41   weird Sweden they say like

00:26:43   how I met you Marco yeah I remember in

00:26:44   further w like i remember meeting you at

00:26:47   WTC and you know who i would that if I

00:26:50   had like if I could have told my future

00:26:53   like my past self like in a couple years

00:26:55   to be doing a podcast with Marco like it

00:26:58   would have sounded completely absurd to

00:27:00   me like at this point I think I was like

00:27:01   I was a big build an analyze fan and it

00:27:03   was this kind of cool thing and you

00:27:05   never know where how these things are

00:27:06   gonna play out and you just never know

00:27:08   but if you don't a have if you don't

00:27:10   serve just like you know what I'm gonna

00:27:11   do this it doesn't feel good but I know

00:27:14   that it will end up better like flossing

00:27:17   yeah whatever exactly meeting us is like

00:27:20   flossing

00:27:21   exactly it's it was such a wonderful

00:27:24   analogy but I definitely would encourage

00:27:27   people to do that and like sometimes

00:27:29   it'll work sometimes it won't like in

00:27:30   terms of sometimes you'll have really

00:27:32   awkward interactions that feel like it's

00:27:34   like man that will it didn't really go

00:27:35   well but other times it really will and

00:27:38   it's the kind of thing like there's no

00:27:40   there's no like magic answer for

00:27:41   socializing it's not like oh here's

00:27:43   these three things that you should do

00:27:44   but it's the kind of thing that you just

00:27:46   keep doing and then you'll look back on

00:27:49   and see how those upper to know how

00:27:51   those moments of just being like you

00:27:54   know what I'm gonna go up and say hello

00:27:56   well eventually you do it enough it gets

00:27:59   easier and it starts to build some real

00:28:02   connections that you know you can look

00:28:04   back on and kind of just be amazed yeah

00:28:07   I'm looking forward to so you know this

00:28:09   goes you know it's I guess the all the

00:28:11   time we have for this week thank you for

00:28:14   everybody for listening I hope that if

00:28:16   you have the the means and opportunity

00:28:19   to consider going to WTC I hope you

00:28:23   register to get a ticket because you

00:28:24   have to do that basically now to to have

00:28:27   a chance of getting it for everybody who

00:28:29   registered who who who really needs that

00:28:31   ticket to go I hope you get one and I

00:28:35   look forward to seeing everybody this

00:28:37   year yeah I imagine you'll be able to

00:28:39   find one way or the other you have to

00:28:41   find Marco and I in San Francisco so if

00:28:43   you see us by all means say hi you

00:28:46   definitely spot David by the color of

00:28:48   his shirt it's usually very bright and

00:28:51   blue exactly basically the brighter

00:28:54   version of the color of OS 10 folders

00:28:56   is that about right it's a powerhead

00:28:58   yeah or maybe I think the better one to

00:29:00   go for is it's if you if you have one of

00:29:02   those blue developer watches that Apple

00:29:05   watch if you know Apple put out when ya

00:29:08   was first introduced if you see

00:29:09   something that's that blue that's

00:29:11   probably me exactly

00:29:13   alright thanks for listening everybody

00:29:15   and always floss and we will talk to you

00:29:18   next week bye

00:29:19   I don't floss