Hello Internet

H.I. 95: Break Glass in Case of Emergency


01:00:00   it would actually be useful but I think

01:00:04   there's a non-trivial number of people

01:00:06   who just couldn't even get their life

01:00:09   together enough to be able to go to that

01:00:11   evening class like we're just showing up

01:00:14   to a thing on time is a skill that those

01:00:16   people don't have and like maybe if you

01:00:19   can't like be somewhere on time you

01:00:22   shouldn't have a kid it's a bit like I

01:00:25   spoken to a few people who've done the

01:00:27   test for the TSA pre-approved check

01:00:30   thing in the United States yeah and

01:00:33   everybody's response is exactly the same

01:00:35   where they talk about oh this thing is

01:00:36   ridiculous because all you have to do is

01:00:38   like get to the airport and you have to

01:00:41   wait in a place you fill out a little

01:00:43   form like you talk to a guy and then

01:00:44   they just approve you when you go home

01:00:45   and I had the same response to everyone

01:00:47   these people like no you don't

01:00:48   understand that is the test like getting

01:00:51   to the airport being able to follow the

01:00:53   instructions not flipping out when a guy

01:00:56   asks you a couple of personal questions

01:00:57   like that's the test I feel like this is

01:01:00   very much the former teacher and really

01:01:01   like you don't understand how many

01:01:03   people can't follow instructions longer

01:01:07   if the instructions are the test so

01:01:11   there's something about that that feels

01:01:12   like just set like the lowest possible

01:01:16   bar for having kids like I feel like I

01:01:19   couldn't be opposed to like you just

01:01:21   need to go somewhere to get a stamp the

01:01:25   people are having kids have accomplished

01:01:26   one thing yeah they have accomplished

01:01:28   one thing I mean yeah you can't open a

01:01:30   bank account without giving them your

01:01:31   entire genome an entire internet search

01:01:34   history and yet you can create a human

01:01:36   being and rear it and bring it up

01:01:39   without yeah telling anyone anything

01:01:41   sometimes I feel really anxious when I

01:01:43   look at babies because just today

01:01:46   actually I was just walking down the

01:01:47   street and there was is a woman who had

01:01:49   like swaddled a little baby and she had

01:01:51   him on a back swaddle like instead of on

01:01:54   the front he was just on the back you

01:01:55   know like along for the ride and you

01:01:57   know shopping day yeah whenever I look

01:01:58   at this babies I always just feel like

01:02:00   you poor thing you have no control over

01:02:02   anything

01:02:03   you're just here that you are totally at

01:02:06   the mercy of the external world like you

01:02:08   can do nothing to help yourself it's

01:02:10   that feeling that just makes me feel

01:02:11   like it's

01:02:12   see someone can just bring a life into

01:02:15   the world and we have just zero checks

01:02:18   on this and this new little person could

01:02:21   not be more vulnerable like a puppy is

01:02:25   less vulnerable than a human baby human

01:02:27   babies can do nothing if their socks are

01:02:30   making their feet uncomfortable it's

01:02:31   like well that baby just has to deal

01:02:32   with it it makes me anxious looking at

01:02:34   babies so I feel very sorry for them and

01:02:36   I feel like I want more protections for

01:02:37   babies more protections for babies I can

01:02:41   be a New Year's resolution boy that last

01:02:46   question sure was something in my

01:02:48   experience nothing gets people riled up

01:02:50   more than the systems of politics and

01:02:53   I'm willing to bet that a whole bunch of

01:02:55   you think you do know how to make a

01:02:57   system work that would have answered

01:02:58   that last question well if you have

01:03:01   something you want to propose you know

01:03:03   the best way to communicate with me

01:03:05   about it it's to build a Squarespace

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01:03:09   that's the best way to communicate with

01:03:11   me and the best way to communicate with

01:03:14   the world the Squarespace has been such

01:03:16   a long time supporter of hello Internet

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01:03:48   people don't want to do that they're too

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01:03:53   need to get bogged down in the details

01:03:55   of how HTML tags work I mean really who

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01:04:00   Squarespace cares about that but you

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01:05:20   we go if McDonald's spent billions of

01:05:24   dollars rescuing the targa from

01:05:25   extinction should they be allowed to

01:05:28   then sell a mock tiger burger so there

01:05:32   are lots of Tigers in the scenario yeah

01:05:34   they've basically made Tigers like cows

01:05:37   well I have a lot of problems with the

01:05:40   meat industrial complex mm-hmm I feel

01:05:44   like factory farming is really

01:05:45   indefensible but more more Tigers is

01:05:49   better than oh god I don't know like I

01:05:51   don't have a problem in theory with

01:05:53   Tiger burgers it's a hard one to debate

01:05:55   it's not like I think if one of my

01:05:57   videos had Tiger burgers as an example

01:05:59   of something I feel like I've used this

01:06:00   before so I don't know whatever anyway I

01:06:02   feel like the the problem in my head is

01:06:04   not the problem that this question is

01:06:06   asking about right the problem I'm

01:06:07   having is do we want to introduce

01:06:10   another species to factory farming life

01:06:13   because presumably like when you're at

01:06:15   McDonald's scale this is the problem you

01:06:17   come up against I would have concerns

01:06:18   about having that many Tigers on it

01:06:22   skyping from some farm in Devon it's

01:06:25   like a like a Jurassic Park situation

01:06:27   mcdonoughs got so caught up wondering if

01:06:30   they could do it they didn't think if

01:06:31   they should do okay you know thinking it

01:06:35   through no I'm coming down now and I'm

01:06:38   coming down very solidly on now

01:06:39   because you're saving Tigers from

01:06:43   extinction but you're just creating a

01:06:45   whole bunch of Tigers that presumably

01:06:47   are living miserable lives that seems

01:06:49   like not an improvement in any way what

01:06:52   if they didn't factory farm the Tigers

01:06:54   it was just like a boutique specialty

01:06:56   burger you could have that they caught

01:06:58   from the wild occasionally right so

01:06:59   we've we have free-range Tigers that are

01:07:01   living here every Reg target suing

01:07:02   seigneurs if they're free-range Tigers

01:07:04   then I'm okay with it they're they're

01:07:06   living like a managed Tiger lifestyle we

01:07:09   don't have a farm in Devon packed full

01:07:11   of Tigers that we're afraid of the doors

01:07:12   are gonna burst any day so you like the

01:07:15   question there is like are the Tigers

01:07:16   living a happy life before from their

01:07:19   perspective the lights just go out and

01:07:21   they never even know I love the idea of

01:07:23   a tiger lifestyle I want to live a tiger

01:07:25   lifestyle now hey Brady you're living

01:07:29   the tiger lifestyle you said it brother

01:07:31   I think this thing get really

01:07:32   complicated though because the question

01:07:34   is like how happy are the Tigers like

01:07:37   what are the Tigers eating basically are

01:07:39   we introducing more sorrow into the

01:07:41   world because of all of the rabbits that

01:07:44   the Tigers are chasing down to eat I

01:07:46   feel like I want to be feeding the

01:07:48   Tigers synthetic lab-grown meat and then

01:07:51   killing the Tigers for Tiger burgers and

01:07:53   the Tigers get to live a full and happy

01:07:55   life that's like okay I'm perfectly fine

01:07:57   with that but I think the question is

01:08:00   posed I would say no that McDonald's

01:08:03   saving a species from extinction and

01:08:06   then cultivating that species at the

01:08:09   scale McDonald's would require would not

01:08:12   be a trade-off worth making

01:08:13   if you ain't tiger made from a target

01:08:16   that only ever in its entire life eight

01:08:18   since said it mate are you meeting me

01:08:20   yeah of course what do you mean it's

01:08:23   like if you eat a cow who's only eaten

01:08:25   grass its whole life you're eating meat

01:08:27   the cow is the machine that turns grass

01:08:29   and cattle yeah and now I do get that

01:08:30   and I didn't think that but I just

01:08:31   wondered if there was something more

01:08:33   ethical about aiding an animal with only

01:08:34   ever a synthetic stuff probably not

01:08:37   actually no I think yeah if the

01:08:39   comparison is is the tiger eating live

01:08:41   animals versus synthetic meats I think

01:08:43   eating a tiger that has eaten only

01:08:45   synthetic meat is clearly more ethical

01:08:47   would you rather be a dead celebrity or

01:08:50   a living criminal am i a cat

01:08:53   criminal am I in jail does it change

01:08:58   your answer yeah it does change my

01:08:59   answer I really think that living in

01:09:01   jail is pretty terrible but there's a

01:09:02   chance of escape or release whereas if

01:09:05   you're dead celebrity made yeah done do

01:09:08   my friend like am I in death row am I in

01:09:11   some kind of Shawshank Prison almanach

01:09:14   shank pretty terrible situation I might

01:09:17   prefer to be a dead celebrity it depends

01:09:19   it is an example like a white-collar

01:09:22   criminal who's probably destroyed the

01:09:25   lives of millions of people but it's in

01:09:26   a relatively cushy prison like well then

01:09:28   I'd rather pick a dead celebrity

01:09:31   but if I'm a criminal who's in Shawshank

01:09:33   then then no I think I'd rather be the

01:09:35   dead celebrity there's no way Brady

01:09:37   you're not gonna pick the dead celebrity

01:09:38   yeah I think you're probably wrong yeah

01:09:40   that's that's right I know I know her

01:09:41   Brady do you choose your personality no

01:09:46   that doesn't even make any sense to talk

01:09:48   about that I think you can shape your

01:09:52   personality especially if someone has

01:09:54   like a disciplined mind like you like

01:09:57   you can control and cultivate aspects of

01:09:59   you and over time train yourself to oh

01:10:02   yeah I totally agree with that this is

01:10:04   where I am I am a man who believes in

01:10:06   two things the possibility of

01:10:08   self-improvement and puppies and the

01:10:09   impossibility of free will I don't think

01:10:12   that those two things are in

01:10:14   contradiction like I've talked about it

01:10:17   before I think that there's a real

01:10:18   moment in my life that I feel like I

01:10:20   chose to have a different personality

01:10:22   and that was crossing the threshold of

01:10:25   leaving high school and entering college

01:10:26   and that was a very deliberate moment in

01:10:30   my life where I made a change it was

01:10:32   much for the better

01:10:33   hmm but I still think that when you dig

01:10:36   into that I still run up against this

01:10:40   free will problem of well I was the kind

01:10:42   of person who was able to do that and in

01:10:45   a position where I would decide that

01:10:46   that was the thing to do and so that is

01:10:48   what I did I don't think I chose to be

01:10:51   the sort of person who could decide and

01:10:56   successfully execute that change and I

01:10:59   don't think you have any choice in your

01:11:00   personality so only people with a

01:11:02   certain personality can choose their

01:11:03   personality only people with a certain

01:11:05   personality will be

01:11:07   able to change their personality but

01:11:10   they're not even in a position

01:11:11   necessarily to direct that change in the

01:11:14   way that I think the question is asking

01:11:16   could ask you one quick question I don't

01:11:19   want to dig up and go over that time out

01:11:21   of high school when you're at a

01:11:22   crossroads and you feel like you made

01:11:23   important decisions mmm you know maybe

01:11:25   we could do it another time

01:11:26   but pretend you didn't make the big

01:11:29   decisions you made like say you chose

01:11:31   the path a instead of path B yeah I just

01:11:34   continued as I was yeah what job do you

01:11:36   think you'd be doing today that's a good

01:11:38   question I'm willing to bet that the job

01:11:41   I would be doing today is I would be a

01:11:45   physics teacher in high school the

01:11:47   difference between me eventually leaving

01:11:50   that career and becoming self-employed

01:11:52   and staying in that career can point

01:11:54   very very directly towards the decisions

01:11:58   of changing myself between high school

01:12:00   and college so both paths took you to be

01:12:02   a physics teacher but just different

01:12:04   kinds of physics teachers one that could

01:12:06   escape and one that couldn't yeah if I'm

01:12:08   trying to like game theory out what is

01:12:10   the most likely thing that the like the

01:12:12   high school version of me would have

01:12:14   done I can't think of a more probable

01:12:17   path than that one the only other career

01:12:20   that was even remotely on the horizon as

01:12:22   a possibility was like being an airline

01:12:23   pilot and I just don't think I would

01:12:26   have been dedicated enough to be able to

01:12:28   do that so I think I would have ended up

01:12:31   as a teacher as well you didn't feel the

01:12:33   need the need for space

01:12:34   let me tell you my thoughts about being

01:12:36   an airline pilot

01:12:37   we're not centered around the need for

01:12:39   speed now this is an interesting

01:12:44   question in which you're either gonna

01:12:46   answer very dismissively or you're gonna

01:12:49   go hmm and have a deeper thought on it

01:12:52   I'm enjoying all these Brady predictions

01:12:54   by the way it could one army of robots

01:12:57   fighting another army of robots ever

01:12:59   decide a war will the time come where a

01:13:02   war is completely decided without humans

01:13:06   entering battle or conflict or violence

01:13:08   I think is the question okay there's two

01:13:10   things here I think not in the world

01:13:14   that were currently imagining I think

01:13:17   you know in a war between

01:13:19   nation states like a war fundamentally

01:13:22   involves human loss and so when you're

01:13:28   talking about a war being decided like I

01:13:31   can imagine a situation where there is a

01:13:33   war in quotes between two nations where

01:13:36   those nations are essentially at a kind

01:13:38   of technological stalemate you know

01:13:40   Russia has drones but the US has

01:13:42   fantastic anti drones and there's like a

01:13:45   angry swarm of drones over the Pacific

01:13:48   Ocean just forever right like not making

01:13:50   any progress forward or backward and

01:13:52   then that becomes like oh this is the

01:13:54   thing in the world what's that oh that's

01:13:55   the great drone war it's been going on

01:13:56   for a hundred years and it never moved

01:13:59   one way or the other and then that's

01:14:01   just not decided it's not Universal

01:14:04   paper clips but for real yeah yeah so I

01:14:06   feel like in nation-state wars there

01:14:10   have to be human casualties involved

01:14:12   that is what forces a nation-state to

01:14:15   capitulate so I feel like there are

01:14:17   always going to be humans involved even

01:14:19   if their only involvement is as a like a

01:14:22   body count to make one side say oh we're

01:14:25   surrendering now on the other side of

01:14:27   that though like imagining a future

01:14:29   without humans where there are just

01:14:31   rival Paperclip optimizers battling with

01:14:34   each other for control of the universe

01:14:35   it's like oh yeah well obviously that's

01:14:38   the future it's only a matter of time

01:14:39   until that occurs wars between robots

01:14:42   can be decided

01:14:43   among those robots but if it's nation

01:14:45   state wars I think humans have to be

01:14:47   involved in in some way the way that was

01:14:50   coming into my head and that what got me

01:14:52   thinking about was all these stories and

01:14:53   I don't even know if they're true

01:14:54   stories or they just like legend and

01:14:56   this never actually happened so you can

01:15:00   tell me but you know how you hear all

01:15:01   these old-fashioned stories of two

01:15:03   armies like meeting on a plane and

01:15:05   instead of just like beating the crap

01:15:07   out of each other

01:15:08   they each send their top warrior to have

01:15:09   like a one-on-one fight and whoever wins

01:15:11   that fight wins the battle I have never

01:15:14   heard of this ever I think it must be

01:15:16   like Greek legend and stuff like that

01:15:18   like it was it happens in I feel like

01:15:20   this happens in Royse yeah yes I never

01:15:23   really happened cuz I always think

01:15:24   that's such a silly thing

01:15:25   because whoever loses will just go

01:15:27   bugger that judge like that a war would

01:15:30   kick off anyway so when I saw that robot

01:15:32   quest

01:15:33   that's what I was thinking I was

01:15:34   imagining two nation-states saying okay

01:15:35   there's a nice empty space over there

01:15:38   let's go and send out two robot armies

01:15:40   and whoever wins but you know wins the

01:15:43   war yeah but I just don't think that

01:15:45   would stick because in that losers will

01:15:46   be like charge it's missing the point of

01:15:49   what a war is for like a war occurs when

01:15:53   you can't come to a diplomatic solution

01:15:55   and agreeing that you're going to abide

01:15:59   by the results of this robot boxing

01:16:01   match is a diplomatic solution yeah if

01:16:05   you can agree to that you can agree to

01:16:07   other things you can agree where the

01:16:08   border will be drawn yeah exactly so

01:16:10   like this concept of what a war is is

01:16:13   like I think you don't understand what

01:16:15   war is like well like war means we've

01:16:17   run out of options except the physical

01:16:20   ones does war mean there's no longer any

01:16:22   honor because what this is all about is

01:16:25   a willingness to honor honor and

01:16:27   agreement so war reaches a point where

01:16:29   you know one can agree anything with any

01:16:31   Honor I think honor is a strange word

01:16:34   here I feel like it's much more just

01:16:35   like you cannot trust the other party to

01:16:38   abide by agreements even if they seem to

01:16:41   be willing to agree they said it's gonna

01:16:44   kill him instead yeah that's like that's

01:16:45   what it is I think that I think that's

01:16:47   what's going on there could a computer

01:16:49   write a poem well yeah yeah easy like

01:16:54   computers do that right now but is it a

01:16:56   poem if there's not a certain intent or

01:16:58   emotion behind it a poem exists in the

01:17:00   mind of the reader not in the writer

01:17:02   yeah it exists in the mind of the reader

01:17:03   not in the writer okay

01:17:05   Oh in that case they of course he

01:17:07   answers yes all these questions about

01:17:09   like what are we talking about here

01:17:10   right it's like this I'm not sure I

01:17:11   agree that apart exists in the mind of

01:17:13   the reader and not the writer maybe it

01:17:15   needs to exist in both but actually

01:17:17   something that is a little bit more

01:17:18   relevant to our careers I don't know if

01:17:22   you've seen them but I've noticed a lot

01:17:24   of these videos that are they're usually

01:17:26   from news sites and their videos but

01:17:29   their videos that just have like stock

01:17:32   image in the background and then

01:17:34   captions that are running through the

01:17:36   basic facts about some situation in the

01:17:38   news yeah they're becoming more and more

01:17:40   common now yeah

01:17:41   you know why they're more common it's

01:17:43   because they're bought created you know

01:17:45   I know a lot of people who are making

01:17:47   humans who are making these things now

01:17:49   the thing that hasn't occurred to me is

01:17:51   that these people are being prepared to

01:17:52   be put out of a job and they don't even

01:17:54   realize it that is what they're just

01:17:56   getting people used to the idea of these

01:17:57   things and also what those people may be

01:17:59   doing without realizing it is that they

01:18:02   are creating part of the data set upon

01:18:04   which the robots are being trained

01:18:06   but like the existence of these

01:18:08   human-made videos is part of the data

01:18:10   set that the company owns which then

01:18:12   they're feeding into like their Markov

01:18:13   generator behind the scenes but it's

01:18:15   really an interesting thing and when I

01:18:17   when I found out that a huge number of

01:18:18   these are produced by robots it's like

01:18:20   oh that makes perfect sense I like it it

01:18:24   makes absolute sense this is why I'm

01:18:25   seeing these all over the place there's

01:18:28   these ways that you can be a be testing

01:18:29   them against each other to try to find

01:18:31   which ones are most effective

01:18:32   bla bla bla bla bla but would you say

01:18:35   that the robot has made a video I think

01:18:38   a robot can make a video yes but let me

01:18:41   read this definition of poem I just

01:18:43   found ago a poem is a piece of writing

01:18:45   in which the expression of feelings and

01:18:48   ideas is given intensity by particular

01:18:51   attention to diction rhythm and imagery

01:18:54   now I think a computer as I understand

01:18:57   them now can handle the diction rhythm

01:18:59   and imagery but can they have the

01:19:00   expression of feelings and ideas that

01:19:03   the poem is based on yeah but by that

01:19:05   definition and by what we think of as

01:19:08   robots today no a robot couldn't write a

01:19:12   poem I'm thinking of this in terms of

01:19:14   the way I think about art like what like

01:19:16   what does it mean to say that the thing

01:19:17   is art and that's always notoriously

01:19:20   tricky and my my fallback is is mostly

01:19:22   like art has to invoke some feeling from

01:19:25   the viewer that's what art is so by my

01:19:30   definition I feel like yeah a an

01:19:32   unconscious thing can produce artwork

01:19:34   which includes poems but by that

01:19:36   definition of what a poem is then

01:19:38   clearly we'd have to come to the other

01:19:39   conclusion that no a robot can't write a

01:19:41   poem because it is not attempting to

01:19:44   express anything but I just don't think

01:19:46   that's a good definition yeah fair

01:19:48   enough it was just the first one I found

01:19:50   suited my miny

01:19:52   are we more alive than a tree no fair

01:19:56   enough

01:19:57   I think alive is a binary state you are

01:20:00   or are not alive

01:20:02   putting aside the very tricky definition

01:20:04   of like what does it mean to be alive

01:20:05   like yeah we're gonna blow right past

01:20:08   that and just say that there's a thing

01:20:10   that we can agree upon which is the

01:20:11   concept of aliveness that is a binary

01:20:14   state has not a floating point integer

01:20:15   we are literally only halfway through

01:20:18   the book so we're only about halfway

01:20:19   through my questions but I think we'd

01:20:20   better stop and we can use the second

01:20:22   half of the book I'll put the second

01:20:24   half of the book back behind the glass

01:20:25   for a glass yet great here's one fine I

01:20:28   want to mull over does your dog think

01:20:32   about you when you're at work or not

01:20:36   around because you and I both work from

01:20:37   home if we work away from home and if

01:20:42   you owned a dog right do dogs think

01:20:45   about their owners when their owners are

01:20:46   at work well what do you think baby part

01:20:49   of me can't imagine a scenario where

01:20:50   they kind of forget you exist and then

01:20:52   when you turn up is the best thing ever

01:20:56   that would explain why they're so

01:20:58   incredibly happy when you get home

01:20:59   because they had forgotten you existed

01:21:01   and you just come back to life I don't

01:21:04   know this comes back to what we

01:21:05   discussed recently about how just how

01:21:06   human dogs are certainly Lulu knows

01:21:09   here's my car from miles away because

01:21:12   she's always at the window when I pull

01:21:13   up but you know again that could just be

01:21:15   a learned response to a certain sound

01:21:16   but I think they do yeah do you think if

01:21:20   you could reach inside the dogs heads

01:21:21   they would know that you exist when they

01:21:23   don't see you there's certainly an

01:21:25   anxiety for something that's missing

01:21:27   mm-hmm that is sated by your

01:21:30   reappearance whether or not they can

01:21:34   visualize what that thing is but whether

01:21:38   they just feel an anxiety or they fit

01:21:40   they're feeling an anxiety that's saying

01:21:41   I wish Brodie was here I just we prayed

01:21:43   he was back he's he's nicely I don't

01:21:46   know I think they probably do well what

01:21:50   do you think for me this is very simple

01:21:52   yeah I don't care what the answer is I

01:21:54   choose to believe that the dogs miss you

01:21:58   when you're gone

01:21:58   when you're gone

00:00:00   hello Internet its future gray here

00:00:01   rushing to edit this episode before I

00:00:04   have to go for this podcast I think you

00:00:07   should pause after each of the questions

00:00:09   and find the answer for yourself before

00:00:12   you let Brady or I convince you of what

00:00:14   is the one true answer if you're

00:00:16   listening with somebody else even better

00:00:18   each of you should try to convince each

00:00:20   other of what the true answer is before

00:00:22   hearing Brady and I talk about it anyway

00:00:24   that's all I wanted to say I'm going to

00:00:26   stop recording now and literally press

00:00:28   the export upload publish buttons as

00:00:31   fast as I can to get this episode out to

00:00:33   you so have a lovely evening

00:00:35   and let the show begin so for the

00:00:40   longest time we have had this sort of I

00:00:44   wouldn't say fear but concern in the

00:00:46   back of our minds that one day we may

00:00:48   come to record how the internet and just

00:00:50   not have anything to say or who run out

00:00:52   of topics and things like that mm-hmm

00:00:54   it has never happened and it hasn't

00:00:57   really happened today either I don't

00:00:59   think but just in case it does happen

00:01:01   I've had a break glass in case of

00:01:02   emergency option sitting in a drawer by

00:01:05   my side for a couple of years now this

00:01:07   is a book that has it really been

00:01:09   sitting there for a couple of years I

00:01:10   guess it has you referenced it enough

00:01:12   when we were doing our little pre-show

00:01:13   chats

00:01:14   I reckon has just been sitting there so

00:01:15   today for a special episode we have

00:01:18   decided to break the glass and use my

00:01:22   emergency podcasting options just I

00:01:25   don't know why I just because I'm sick

00:01:27   of waiting we're gonna do it it does

00:01:31   feel like a thing we'll never get to

00:01:32   because every time we do good record I

00:01:35   think much more so for me I have this

00:01:38   deep fear of like what on earth are we

00:01:40   going to talk about and so many times I

00:01:43   feel like we get to the show and we

00:01:45   barely get to all the topics that we

00:01:46   have because we get caught up in

00:01:48   something that's a total tangent right

00:01:49   at the beginning so it is an unfounded

00:01:52   fear every time but yes it does feel

00:01:54   like we'll never get to this book

00:01:55   otherwise so let's just take a look at

00:01:57   this book okay this is a book I don't

00:02:00   know where it came from or why I have it

00:02:03   I don't think I bought it it doesn't

00:02:05   look like something I would have bought

00:02:06   but it's called the book of thunks of

00:02:10   thunks funks so instead of thinks that

00:02:13   place the IB that you thought okay

00:02:15   that's by a chap named in Gilbert

00:02:19   mmm-hmm I think it's bit of a toilet

00:02:20   book I think it's supposed to be a

00:02:21   conversation book but I see it more as a

00:02:23   toilet that rarified genre hmm it's full

00:02:27   of just one line questions that are

00:02:30   supposed to be thought-provoking or

00:02:33   conversation starters

00:02:35   it also says on here to annoy your

00:02:37   friends and I think a lot of these

00:02:39   questions would be quite effective

00:02:40   annoying your friends it sounds like a

00:02:43   very Brady book then no I don't like the

00:02:45   annoying aspect of it anyway really

00:02:48   because I think you are the king of

00:02:49   asking needling annoying questions of

00:02:52   people when you're interviewing them or

00:02:54   when you're talking to me on a podcast I

00:02:56   feel like you would like that part the

00:02:57   most know some of the men or even may

00:03:00   now there are 300 questions in this book

00:03:03   okay just before the show I went through

00:03:05   with a marker and I've put big red

00:03:07   crosses next to ones that I think hmm I

00:03:09   wouldn't mind asking gray that question

00:03:11   so I'm gonna go through this book I'm

00:03:14   gonna go through all the questions that

00:03:15   I've put crosses next to or at least I'm

00:03:17   gonna go through all the ones until we

00:03:18   get sick of it row and we're gonna see

00:03:21   what you think about them are you gonna

00:03:24   answer these questions as well breeding

00:03:25   if you want me to depends what the

00:03:27   question I would very much one I don't

00:03:28   want to be just on the hook here I don't

00:03:30   need this to be a quiz there situation

00:03:31   it's not like that it's not like that I

00:03:33   will answer questions too if I feel I

00:03:35   have something to contribute mm-hmm now

00:03:37   there are a lot of questions in this

00:03:39   book I'm not gonna ask because some of

00:03:41   them really annoy me because they seem

00:03:42   to come from a place of real science

00:03:44   ignorant or just a logic ignorant so I'm

00:03:47   ignoring all those ones give me an

00:03:48   example of this I'll give you an example

00:03:50   of one what weighs more a piece of blank

00:03:52   paper or a piece of lined paper yeah

00:03:54   that's just an annoying question yeah

00:03:56   there are lots of questions like that

00:03:58   and I feel like I need way more details

00:04:00   to answer that question well that is a

00:04:02   definite problem you will have with

00:04:04   every question anyway we're gonna have

00:04:06   to do with that grace and just as much

00:04:08   as we come to it but that a gray ISM I

00:04:10   don't think so I think that's a

00:04:12   reasonable thing to ask all right let's

00:04:14   go let's I've got the book here you can

00:04:16   you can probably hear the pages here

00:04:18   there we go some nice bully work thank

00:04:20   you

00:04:21   so the first one I put a cross next to

00:04:23   just so happens to be number

00:04:26   eight in the book of 300 okay if the

00:04:31   cure for cancer meant constructing a

00:04:34   huge Factory in Antarctica should we do

00:04:37   it anyway I don't even understand how

00:04:39   that's a question yes what's the

00:04:43   question I don't think they make the

00:04:45   stakes high enough in that question

00:04:46   myself you know like I'd burn down the

00:04:48   rainforest for a cure for cancer so cure

00:04:50   for cancer I was thinking you know maybe

00:04:53   destroying all of Antarctica would that

00:04:55   be worth curing cancer

00:04:56   yeah I'd sink Antarctica under the ocean

00:04:58   I mean cancer kills a lot of people yeah

00:05:00   there's a lot of weight on that side of

00:05:01   the scale I think I'd be pretty hard

00:05:03   pressed to think of anything that

00:05:06   doesn't come close to species destroying

00:05:08   that I wouldn't do to cure cancer okay

00:05:10   are you breaking I think my threshold

00:05:13   would be probably lower than yours

00:05:14   okay so lower then just doesn't destroy

00:05:17   the species as your threshold yeah I

00:05:20   think obliterating Antarctica altogether

00:05:23   I don't know what is in dark touka ever

00:05:25   done for you not much I'm going there

00:05:27   same oh yeah but I would also like a

00:05:29   cure for cancer so I would cancel my

00:05:31   trip and let make your cancer would you

00:05:34   answer change like before and after the

00:05:37   trip like oh you're more hesitant to not

00:05:40   destroy Antarctica before you've gone

00:05:42   but after you've gone do you think you

00:05:43   would be more willing to sink the entire

00:05:46   continent would you be willing to put

00:05:48   several thousand sort of charismatic

00:05:49   fauna species extinct in exchange for a

00:05:52   cure for cancer as long as it meant

00:05:54   humans could still live like you know

00:05:56   get rid of all the elephants and the

00:05:57   lions and the cats and the dogs and no

00:05:59   dogs oh oh I found your weakness if that

00:06:03   is my weakness

00:06:04   uh actually I feel like could I look

00:06:07   into the eyes of a single puppy and

00:06:10   extinguish its life in exchange for a

00:06:12   cure for cancer I feel like I don't know

00:06:14   if I could do that say what you wouldn't

00:06:15   be willing to kill all the puppies in

00:06:17   the world for a cure for cancer oh god I

00:06:19   don't know now I feel immediately like I

00:06:21   need a bunch you know PETA and tactic am

00:06:24   the rain forest you know put a few

00:06:26   puppies on the Block and suddenly it ya

00:06:28   know that's a very different moral

00:06:30   question

00:06:33   Wow that's horrible to realize that this

00:06:35   is the way my brain is prioritizing

00:06:37   these things oh man

00:06:39   that becomes a much harder question yeah

00:06:41   I feel like then I need to know all

00:06:42   sorts of details of the book is not

00:06:43   going to have like does this mean we

00:06:46   will never cure cancer or that we just

00:06:49   won't have the cure now like then I need

00:06:50   to start really lawyering up on what the

00:06:53   exact parameters of this question are

00:06:55   but once you involve puppies I'm going

00:06:57   to become much more hesitant is what's

00:06:59   going on here

00:07:00   it's mr. chump is in Asia at the moment

00:07:02   mr. chompers is not in earshot at the

00:07:04   moment he's going to be returning to the

00:07:06   house very shortly

00:07:07   he had a big bath from getting all muddy

00:07:09   today but he is not currently around

00:07:10   well anyway he probably would've liked

00:07:13   your answer anyway I feel like a

00:07:16   terrible person let's move on to another

00:07:18   question are you more of a success if

00:07:22   you have had five top 40 hit records but

00:07:26   no number ones compared to someone who

00:07:29   is a one-hit wonder who has just had one

00:07:31   number one oh man that's easy that's

00:07:33   easy hmm

00:07:34   it depends entirely on how large the

00:07:37   residuals are like was the tail end of

00:07:40   this just pure dollars yeah it's not a

00:07:43   bad consistency of quality uh it's just

00:07:45   about the money you make oh is that the

00:07:47   I guess that is the question well I

00:07:49   think this is complicated because I

00:07:51   think it's a kid I think when I first

00:07:53   came across the concept of a one-hit

00:07:55   wonder I always found that kind of sad

00:07:58   yeah do you get that same feeling from

00:08:01   like the concept of like a one-hit

00:08:02   wonder that there's something like a

00:08:03   little sad about that

00:08:05   I think it's fluky the person's success

00:08:08   yeah I mean that's one of the ways you

00:08:10   could take this question yeah but I feel

00:08:12   like as I've gotten older like adult me

00:08:15   doesn't have that same feeling with a

00:08:17   one-hit wonder like a one-hit wonder

00:08:20   he's already incredibly successful yeah

00:08:22   it's like sure obviously anybody who's a

00:08:24   one-hit wonder would prefer to be a

00:08:25   two-hit wonder but being a one-hit

00:08:28   wonder is way better than being a zero

00:08:30   hit wonder let me reframe the question

00:08:31   and that completely changes it and in

00:08:34   some ways I think would reverse my

00:08:35   answer okay and that question would be

00:08:37   would you rather win a gold medal at the

00:08:40   Olympics or win thirteen silver medals

00:08:43   over three different Olympic

00:08:45   but no Gold's for me the answer to that

00:08:52   is easy I'm gonna bet you want the gold

00:08:53   right yeah hmm because no one remembers

00:08:56   silver medals in the world of music well

00:08:59   it's not true to say no one remembers

00:09:01   songs that don't get to number one

00:09:02   because a lot of very big songs never

00:09:04   technically got to number one but you

00:09:06   know a number one is a bit like a gold

00:09:07   medal isn't it

00:09:08   yeah this is touching upon like the

00:09:09   power law in entertainment like a

00:09:12   one-hit wonder is ten times more

00:09:14   presence in people's minds than the next

00:09:17   most popular song which is 10 times more

00:09:19   present than the third most popular song

00:09:21   and so what would you get down to the

00:09:23   bottom of the top 40 chart is like oh

00:09:25   yeah those are songs people might

00:09:26   recognize but they're not super

00:09:27   omnipresent in a person's mind I was

00:09:29   just thinking with the silver medals I

00:09:30   think something more impressive if you

00:09:32   can get a bunch of silver medals in

00:09:36   disparate fields this then again it like

00:09:39   a we're getting into the details here

00:09:40   but I think personally I feel like in my

00:09:43   personality I would be happier being

00:09:47   less successful in a wider area of

00:09:51   fields then being super successful in

00:09:55   one field like much to my surprise there

00:09:58   is something that is attractive about

00:10:01   being the kind of person who could win

00:10:03   silver medals in a bunch of events even

00:10:06   if you know like lots of people think

00:10:09   that silver is first loser

00:10:10   that it's not the same as a gold that a

00:10:12   gold is like ten times better than a

00:10:15   silver in people's minds I remember when

00:10:17   I was a little boy I went through a

00:10:18   phase where my favorite color

00:10:20   was silver you know when you say you

00:10:21   have to have a favorite color and a

00:10:22   favorite number

00:10:23   I always said my favorite color is

00:10:25   silver and I was watching the Olympics

00:10:27   with my dad one time and I was watching

00:10:29   the medal ceremony and I said to my dad

00:10:32   you know what I love silver so much I

00:10:34   think I'd rather have a silver medal

00:10:35   than a gold medal and he just looked at

00:10:37   me and said when you grow up you think

00:10:40   differently and he was right he was

00:10:45   right and while it's true like winning

00:10:47   silver medals across disparate

00:10:49   disciplines over a sustained period of

00:10:51   time does show a far greater level of

00:10:54   accomplishment mmm and if you don't

00:10:56   believe me there's an Australian who won

00:10:57   a gold medal at

00:10:59   the Winter Olympics that is the most

00:11:00   cheeky undeserved gold medal in the

00:11:02   history of gold medals you have to tell

00:11:04   me what that is now I'm now I'm curious

00:11:05   what is the most undeserved gold medal

00:11:07   ever to set the scene for you in the

00:11:09   Winter Olympics in some forms of speed

00:11:12   skating you have all these eliminations

00:11:15   and things like that to get to the final

00:11:17   mm-hmm and then the final is four people

00:11:20   okay and this Australian actually got

00:11:24   through to the final of four people he

00:11:26   shouldn't have even been in the final

00:11:27   because all the people in his semi-final

00:11:29   fell over and he made it to the final

00:11:31   okay

00:11:32   so then this was the fire live sent you

00:11:33   the clip his name's Steven Bradbury okay

00:11:36   and he was against three other speed

00:11:38   skaters that were way better than him

00:11:39   and they were going around this really

00:11:41   tight track okay so this is a race this

00:11:43   is just like a pure speed race on the

00:11:45   ice okay pure race pure race there were

00:11:48   four other skaters actually there were

00:11:49   five in the final okay he was just

00:11:51   sitting at the back not a hope in hell

00:11:53   and he'd given up even trying he was

00:11:55   just sitting there watching them

00:11:56   thinking this is amazing that I even

00:11:58   made the final and as the four others

00:12:01   were vying for the medals they got to

00:12:02   the last corner and they all crashed

00:12:04   into each other right at us and he just

00:12:08   like just coasted over the line on his

00:12:10   own like thinking what the hell just

00:12:12   happened and the others were all trying

00:12:14   to stand up and like put a toe over the

00:12:16   line so they could finish and he was

00:12:17   just like oh I just want to gold medal

00:12:20   you can never take that away from him

00:12:22   and of course he's not as great a speed

00:12:25   skater as someone who has won a bunch of

00:12:26   silvers over loads of Olympics but he

00:12:28   still got his gold medal that's amazing

00:12:30   that he's the beneficiary of two flukes

00:12:32   that is fluky he was there in the first

00:12:34   place and that shot is amazing cuz they

00:12:37   they really do crash like 20 feet before

00:12:40   the end of the before the end of the

00:12:42   race yeah you see the others standing up

00:12:44   and just trying to put like their skate

00:12:46   over the line to finish and he just like

00:12:48   drifts past yeah because I'm just

00:12:50   watching the replay here and he's not

00:12:52   even booking it for the finish line like

00:12:54   he's clearly mentally checked is like

00:12:56   inertia just propels him over the finish

00:12:58   line

00:13:02   Wow

00:13:03   Australia go for Australia go for

00:13:06   Australia

00:13:07   I feel like this adds another level to

00:13:09   that question potentially which is

00:13:10   getting a gold getting a bunch of

00:13:12   Silver's

00:13:12   or totally unintentionally getting a

00:13:15   gold okay like just blind luck stumbling

00:13:19   on to success in this manner that's

00:13:21   that's amazing

00:13:24   well Salt Lake 2002 fantastic here any

00:13:28   for another question yep is a horse a

00:13:31   vehicle is a horse a vehicle hmm yeah a

00:13:37   horse is a vehicle I'm trying to stretch

00:13:40   the edges of this I think if you put a

00:13:42   little girl on a big dog that is not a

00:13:45   vehicle because there would be no

00:13:49   driving like a big st. Bernard with the

00:13:52   tiny child on top of it the child doing

00:13:55   no driving but a human on a horse is

00:13:59   doing driving so I'm gonna say yes the

00:14:03   horse is a vehicle and that's the

00:14:05   distinguishing characteristic there

00:14:07   needs to be active driving agree or

00:14:12   disagree don't even care I think it's a

00:14:14   stupid question

00:14:15   what do you mean it's a stupid question

00:14:16   here's a good question uh would it be

00:14:20   okay to blast our rubbish into space

00:14:24   yeah well again like the one with

00:14:26   Antarctica I'm trying to think

00:14:27   my only objections would be pragmatic

00:14:30   there was a video I used to show my

00:14:32   students when we did our little space

00:14:35   module that I always loved which was a

00:14:37   video that was tracking all of the

00:14:40   objects that are currently around earth

00:14:42   yeah this included here's the

00:14:44   International Space Station here's all

00:14:46   the satellites and there's you know

00:14:47   there's a huge number of satellites you

00:14:49   just don't really think about it but

00:14:51   then it was also including all of the

00:14:53   objects in space that could potentially

00:14:55   be a threat to future missions then when

00:14:59   you include that like it's an astounding

00:15:01   number of object like it looks like an

00:15:03   angry swarm of bees yeah it's a credible

00:15:06   now there is a weird problem of scale

00:15:10   here right because space is real big and

00:15:13   you're trying to look at an image on a

00:15:14   screen and how big can that screw be

00:15:16   like there's a funny way that it it

00:15:18   looks fuller than it is yes of course

00:15:20   but still the number is enormous and the

00:15:22   threat is real so my only concern

00:15:26   about space garbage is how accurately

00:15:30   can we fling it directly into the Sun

00:15:32   can we use the Sun as a garbage disposal

00:15:37   system yeah and if we could shoot it

00:15:39   accurately then I would have no problem

00:15:41   with it

00:15:42   I do remember actually doing this as a

00:15:44   unit in one of my physics classes and

00:15:46   university is how hard it is to actually

00:15:49   hit the Sun like if you are launching

00:15:52   something that is not self-guiding it's

00:15:54   remarkably hard to get an object that

00:15:57   would go into the Sun as opposed to

00:16:00   getting captured in some kind of very

00:16:01   long comet orbit and then causing other

00:16:03   problems so I would probably say no

00:16:08   because it's very difficult to imagine a

00:16:10   way that it is practical to do so space

00:16:14   as garbage disposal I would say let's

00:16:16   not do that on practical grounds but if

00:16:18   we came up with like a propulsion system

00:16:20   that was economical mm-hmm and we could

00:16:25   just blast things into space but you

00:16:26   couldn't go for the Sun you just had to

00:16:28   aim out of the solar system and just

00:16:30   send them where they're going like a

00:16:31   Voyager probe you know wherever you end

00:16:33   up you end up right not here so it's

00:16:36   just gonna go where it goes and one day

00:16:37   it'll get captured by some other star

00:16:39   okay so we're just blindly launching

00:16:42   into space yeah yeah don't think too

00:16:44   much about the actual practicalities is

00:16:46   it okay to use the great beyond as a

00:16:50   place just to fling unwanted stuff

00:16:52   everything now I'm worried about drawing

00:16:54   the attention of like a paperclip

00:16:55   maximizing a hey I like where this

00:17:00   garbage come from there's like a gods

00:17:02   must be crazy situation you know yeah

00:17:04   where'd this Falcon having rocket full

00:17:06   of disposed soda cans come from it's

00:17:08   like all right it came from that planet

00:17:10   yeah I would still say though like

00:17:12   putting the potential destruction of the

00:17:13   human species aside I would be okay with

00:17:15   it because space is just so empty it's

00:17:19   almost functionally like throwing it

00:17:21   into a black hole you don't say as this

00:17:22   last pure expanse that hasn't been

00:17:25   sullied by McDonald's wrappers I will

00:17:28   grant that right space is unsullied

00:17:30   presuming that we're the only ones

00:17:31   around mm-hmm but I don't think

00:17:33   unsullied matters if there's nobody

00:17:36   there to experience it isn't us the

00:17:38   argument used by people who want to draw

00:17:40   for oil in Alaska and stuff people say

00:17:42   oh we mustn't do these mining in Alaska

00:17:44   and then the little who are pro mining

00:17:46   say well there's no one there to look at

00:17:47   all this beautiful stuff and these rare

00:17:49   birds anyway I'm susceptible to that

00:17:52   argument I think I'm less susceptible to

00:17:54   it in the drilling in Alaska case

00:17:56   because of concern about externalities

00:17:59   that it's like okay yeah sure if you're

00:18:02   drilling goes okay then everything's

00:18:04   fine but if it doesn't then it's no good

00:18:05   and we also like for entirely human

00:18:08   selfish reasons we have an ecosystem

00:18:09   here that we want to preserve for our

00:18:11   own benefit space just doesn't seem to

00:18:14   have any of those concerns to me yes it

00:18:18   is unsullied but it's just unsullied

00:18:19   emptiness with no conscious experience

00:18:22   whatsoever like it's very hard to

00:18:24   imagine what is the externality here of

00:18:27   we've launched rockets full of McDonnell

00:18:30   trappers into space it's like where

00:18:32   there's nobody there to even see it it's

00:18:35   just like it disappears where I think

00:18:37   the earth is a closed enough system that

00:18:41   you want to be more careful

00:18:43   like if you're sinking a continent into

00:18:45   the ocean you want to make sure you're

00:18:46   really getting something good out of

00:18:47   that you just want to be more careful

00:18:49   with the changes that you're making

00:18:50   I'm gonna guess you don't like sending

00:18:54   trash into space that's my prediction I

00:18:57   find it hard to argue against sending it

00:18:59   into the Sun right but I don't like the

00:19:03   idea of it but I am also aware that the

00:19:04   Apollo astronauts one of the last things

00:19:06   they did before reach takeoff was

00:19:08   chuckle their rubbish out the door

00:19:10   including bags of way it was because

00:19:12   there aren't their poo bags off the

00:19:13   surface of the Moon yeah it's hard for

00:19:16   me to get on too high a horse on this

00:19:17   one but or that objectivity video of

00:19:19   yours that I loved talking with you

00:19:20   about when we were first discussing it

00:19:21   the one where that the Russians exploded

00:19:23   the satellite full of little Russian

00:19:24   coins off the surface of the Moon there

00:19:26   was like sort of like a sphere made of

00:19:28   Penance

00:19:29   right and then the pennants sort of

00:19:30   scattered all over the surface when the

00:19:32   settler impacted yeah there's something

00:19:34   I just I love about that idea is there's

00:19:35   something so childish about that like oh

00:19:38   we're gonna just put a bunch of coins

00:19:40   that say we were here on the surface of

00:19:42   the Moon it is also just totally a kind

00:19:46   of garbage I would love it if they went

00:19:48   and visited those sites when you know

00:19:50   eventually we start going back to the

00:19:51   moon and they found those pennants

00:19:53   awesome there will be real collectors

00:19:55   items someday yeah they will but so

00:19:58   you're okay with the Sun because the Sun

00:20:00   is just an incinerator yeah like an

00:20:01   atomic level incinerator like we could

00:20:03   throw nuclear waste into the Sun but

00:20:05   then you feel more uneasy when you're

00:20:07   talking about the vast emptiness of

00:20:10   space if it was just blasting sewage

00:20:12   towards Alpha Centauri yeah pardon me

00:20:15   would think Oh God

00:20:16   we've crapped all over this planet now

00:20:18   when crapping everywhere else as well

00:20:19   I'm not sure I feel like we have the

00:20:21   right to do it I find that interesting

00:20:23   because like to me the concept of rights

00:20:26   implies that there's someone whose

00:20:30   rights are being infringed upon well I

00:20:32   don't think we know enough to know

00:20:33   whether that's the case or not okay and

00:20:35   I feel like it's not our place you know

00:20:38   I know there are space treaties and

00:20:39   Antarctic treaties and it kind of all

00:20:41   merges into that a bit but I think it

00:20:43   goes beyond that because I still think

00:20:45   with our space treaties Antarctic is

00:20:47   different but with our space treaties

00:20:49   there is a certain arrogance involved in

00:20:52   us deciding amongst ourselves as humans

00:20:54   what can be done with space and how it's

00:20:56   gonna be carved up remind me have you

00:20:58   read the read Mars Ceres the Kim Stanley

00:21:01   Robinson series I only think I've read

00:21:03   the first one yeah I have tried many

00:21:05   times to get through the second - I've

00:21:07   never made it I've given up on that as a

00:21:09   life goal I'm like I'm never gonna make

00:21:11   it through green Mars let alone blue

00:21:13   Mars yeah but I really like them I

00:21:16   reread red Mars maybe just a couple

00:21:18   years ago it holds up as a great science

00:21:21   fiction book but this is like one of the

00:21:22   main themes through that book that I

00:21:25   think is interestingly handled is the

00:21:26   idea of humans around Mars

00:21:28   how much right - humans have to change

00:21:32   Mars from what it is into what the

00:21:35   humans wanted like this is a central

00:21:37   political conflict that takes place in

00:21:38   that book and I think the book is a an

00:21:40   interesting exploration of that idea

00:21:43   this episode of Hello Internet is

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00:23:35   show would a baby born on a deserted

00:23:39   island ever laughs of course a baby on a

00:23:43   deserted island would laugh I think

00:23:46   that's asked like asking if a baby on a

00:23:47   deserted island would see I guess the

00:23:49   question they're getting at more here

00:23:51   and this is a more interesting question

00:23:53   rather than saying would ever laugh

00:23:55   would it ever find something funny like

00:23:58   his humor learned it's getting to be

00:24:00   more subtle but all I was gonna say the

00:24:02   thing that I found interesting when my

00:24:05   friends started having kids I think that

00:24:07   never really crossed my mind before is

00:24:08   that there comes a time when babies

00:24:11   start to laugh that there's like a

00:24:14   period of time where a baby will not

00:24:15   laugh like you get a little trouble baby

00:24:17   and you do a big raspberry on its

00:24:19   stomach and

00:24:20   there's just no response like the wires

00:24:21   aren't hooked up correctly yeah and then

00:24:23   when they get older at some point

00:24:24   they're like oh this is hilarious right

00:24:26   like raspberries on the stomach are the

00:24:27   funniest thing ever but that's because

00:24:29   I've seen you and everyone else laugh at

00:24:31   it but oh yeah I was gonna say it's like

00:24:32   I do think there is something about the

00:24:35   wires are getting hooked up together cuz

00:24:39   a baby born on a deserted island that

00:24:41   and then it becomes like grown-up let's

00:24:43   forget about all the logistics involved

00:24:45   here yeah yeah just and then one day

00:24:46   they see like a giraffe walking on ice

00:24:49   and the giraffe like stumbles and falls

00:24:51   over in a comical way they're not gonna

00:24:53   find that funny

00:24:53   okay the more we talk the less certain

00:24:56   I'm getting because I'm thinking maybe

00:24:57   this is much more like a language thing

00:24:59   like just humor exists in the absence of

00:25:01   other minds but I feel like there's some

00:25:04   part of humor that's like the lowest

00:25:06   part of humor which is really connected

00:25:08   to the idea of surprise yeah that humor

00:25:11   is connected to surprise and a baby

00:25:13   living as an adult is going to at some

00:25:16   point on its Island be surprised by

00:25:20   something and maybe that would trigger a

00:25:22   laugh but I don't know like and the more

00:25:25   I talk the less convinced I am because

00:25:27   there are those cases that you read

00:25:29   about like you know feral children who

00:25:31   are sort of in this situation and the

00:25:33   really fascinating thing is it seems

00:25:35   like for a lot of these cases

00:25:37   reacquiring language skills is just

00:25:40   almost impossible and maybe there's

00:25:43   something like that with humor that if

00:25:45   they're you don't have the concept of

00:25:46   other minds that you just don't develop

00:25:48   this idea a long time ago I heard this

00:25:51   idea about what is humor that I just

00:25:54   love and I think about sometimes but

00:25:56   that humor is like a way that brains are

00:26:01   like debugging other brains or that

00:26:04   brains are figuring out the edges inside

00:26:07   of other brains and I feel like I don't

00:26:10   quite know what that sentence even means

00:26:11   but there's something about it that

00:26:13   strikes me as correct

00:26:15   that like humor is an exploration of

00:26:19   another mind in a different way than

00:26:21   talking is like what makes someone laugh

00:26:27   tells you something about their mind in

00:26:29   a way that is very different from just

00:26:31   talking to them and especially like with

00:26:35   my wife I feel like I can make my wife

00:26:36   really laugh now I like I have a good

00:26:39   sense of like jokes or things that will

00:26:42   make her laugh but there's no way to

00:26:43   verbalize what that is it's like some

00:26:46   other part of my brain has learned how

00:26:49   to get this particular reaction out of

00:26:51   her brain so I don't know I think I have

00:26:54   just talked myself out of this maybe a

00:26:56   baby would never laugh that this is

00:26:58   something that is like language yeah I

00:27:00   think I might be retracting my position

00:27:02   yeah well it was fun watching you work

00:27:04   through it

00:27:05   this next question might be a bit more

00:27:08   up your alley okay if a robot waiter

00:27:11   brings you a drink should you say thank

00:27:14   you well that was a big sigh like this

00:27:18   is really like a conundrum for you it

00:27:21   all hangs on the word should in this

00:27:23   sentence right okay I came across a

00:27:26   parent who had this concern that I found

00:27:29   interesting and the concern was that

00:27:33   Siri and Alexa were turning their child

00:27:39   into an inconsiderate asshole

00:27:41   that is interesting yeah because the

00:27:45   child is just able to issue commands and

00:27:49   the machines just do it

00:27:51   yeah and the machines have no need for

00:27:54   any of the social pleasantries

00:27:57   and that their perception was that this

00:28:02   was bleeding over into other social

00:28:06   interactions that this was not contained

00:28:08   within the environment of like you're

00:28:12   not really talking to alexa like you're

00:28:15   issuing a series of verbal communication

00:28:17   with a robot that like the kid just

00:28:20   wasn't clicking with that so that's the

00:28:23   reason i hesitate there because like do

00:28:26   you need to thank a robot obviously not

00:28:27   do I ever say thank you to Siri no do I

00:28:30   ever say thank you to your toaster yeah

00:28:32   exactly

00:28:32   right like there's no need to do that

00:28:34   there's nothing there I feel like

00:28:37   there's something about society here

00:28:40   like if you have a c-3po looking robot

00:28:42   something that is like sort of human

00:28:45   looking that maybe it's not a bad idea

00:28:48   to just reflexively keep the thank you

00:28:51   even though you know that the robot

00:28:54   doesn't need it just to practice I have

00:28:57   a yeah like it like as a habit now if

00:28:59   the robot is is like oh the table is a

00:29:01   robot and the drinks just appear then it

00:29:03   feels like they come up through a little

00:29:05   slot in the table and I feel like okay

00:29:07   well this is there's nothing human here

00:29:08   but it I feel like if it is an

00:29:10   anthropomorphic robot I could see being

00:29:13   on the side of we as a society should

00:29:16   agree that we're going to keep this

00:29:19   habit in so long as there still exists

00:29:23   human waiters in other situations that

00:29:25   it's like don't lose this but so you say

00:29:27   we should say thank you to say Threepio

00:29:29   but not r2d2 damn it Oh God well okay

00:29:32   Brady you're gonna make me talk about it

00:29:34   droid slavery is clearly a conscious

00:29:39   creature with emotions and feelings and

00:29:42   expressions but if in the real world we

00:29:45   built a robot that looked like r2d2 who

00:29:47   was going around on a floating flotilla

00:29:49   in the desert distributing drinks and we

00:29:52   were reasonably confident that that

00:29:54   robot had no consciousness I feel like

00:29:57   yeah that's a little close to a Roomba

00:29:58   with some drinks on top of it and I feel

00:30:00   like you know I have no need to thank

00:30:01   the Roomba for distributing these drinks

00:30:04   but if it's humanoid I feel like there

00:30:07   is something maybe here but again I may

00:30:10   be extrapolating too far from a

00:30:12   particular case but I found that like an

00:30:15   interesting thing that would never have

00:30:17   crossed my mind before that that it's

00:30:19   making me think about this question a

00:30:20   little bit differently I just had a

00:30:22   great idea for a piece of Star Wars

00:30:23   merchandising who a Roomba that will

00:30:27   fire a lightsaber across the room to you

00:30:29   Return of the Jedi star little slot that

00:30:33   opens up on its top is that what you

00:30:36   want breeding well I would say no you

00:30:40   wouldn't think now I've got another

00:30:43   question okay would you rather live

00:30:45   under a democracy or Undead a

00:30:47   dictatorship led by Father Christmas oh

00:30:50   I need to know a lot about father

00:30:52   Christmas in this

00:30:53   I think you understand the general

00:30:56   concept of father Christmas I mean

00:30:58   there's not a bad bone in his body

00:30:59   I'm gonna just I'm gonna interpret this

00:31:01   as Santa Claus because I think there's a

00:31:03   like a slight difference between father

00:31:04   Christmas and Santa Claus but like I

00:31:05   must say that sounds like a far more

00:31:07   interesting conversation to make what's

00:31:09   the difference during father Christmas

00:31:10   and Santa Claus okay so this is like dim

00:31:12   memories from when I was doing the my

00:31:13   Santa video from years and years ago but

00:31:16   I was reading up on a whole bunch of

00:31:17   stuff and it the conclusion that I

00:31:19   remember coming to and so this this may

00:31:21   be a little bit shaky Internet it's been

00:31:22   a long time but my memory is that father

00:31:26   Christmas was much more like a spirit of

00:31:30   adult Thanksgiving that father Christmas

00:31:33   was like feast and happy times and wine

00:31:37   and fun and that father Christmas was

00:31:39   not like a gift-giving concept no father

00:31:43   Christmas definitely gave me presents

00:31:44   when I was little here's where I was

00:31:46   going with this is that that this is a

00:31:48   thing that starting in like the 40s and

00:31:51   50s started to get completely subsumed

00:31:53   by the concept of Santa that like Santa

00:31:56   as the gift-giving thing is an idea that

00:31:59   has taken over a lot of other cultures

00:32:02   and that like father Christmas used to

00:32:04   be like a different thing but now and

00:32:07   for the life of everyone who has been

00:32:08   alive in the UK father Christmas is just

00:32:11   like a different name for Santa like

00:32:13   it's one of the thousand names of Santa

00:32:15   yeah but I feel like I don't understand

00:32:16   Santa Claus political ideas I think this

00:32:18   is why it's an interesting question if

00:32:20   Santa Claus was taken from his cushy

00:32:22   life in the North Pole right and he's

00:32:24   and he's one day of work a year yeah how

00:32:27   would he run the world

00:32:28   this I think is the burning question

00:32:30   said of Claus sees everything but he's

00:32:32   not all-powerful presumably in the

00:32:34   situation he has an army right he's a

00:32:36   dictator he has keys that he needs to

00:32:38   keep him power I feel like I would keep

00:32:41   the democracy you know anything Santa

00:32:42   could hold it together I just think that

00:32:45   even if you have the power of all-seeing

00:32:48   sight and all-knowing like a

00:32:50   dictatorship is a okay so if we're

00:32:54   taking Santa Claus and we're putting him

00:32:55   in the real world and he's in charge of

00:32:57   a dictatorship I feel like it's still a

00:32:59   dangerous and precarious situation that

00:33:03   even if you have the power of seeing

00:33:04   every

00:33:05   I'm not going to trust that to last a

00:33:08   long time or to always be able to do

00:33:10   good things even if that is the

00:33:12   intention of Santa Claus so I'm gonna

00:33:14   stick with the democracy instead of a

00:33:16   dictatorship run by Santa there's just

00:33:17   so much goodwill towards Santa Claus now

00:33:19   you can't imagine anyone ever trying to

00:33:21   overthrow him it's Santa he's got a

00:33:23   belly that shakes when he loves I guess

00:33:27   that gives him plus 100 defense against

00:33:30   movies like this that was that belly

00:33:31   does look like so jolly knows who's

00:33:35   gonna throw our Santa yeah but one of

00:33:37   his powers is not like a reality

00:33:40   distortion field like if if he came with

00:33:42   like a foundation style like you will

00:33:45   love me ability like then that's a

00:33:47   different story but I feel like his

00:33:48   primary power is being able to read the

00:33:50   minds of everyone simultaneously and

00:33:52   it's like I wonder if he'd get elected

00:33:53   if he ran for office in a democracy I'm

00:33:56   pretty sure Santa would win by a

00:33:58   landslide he'd get most of the popular

00:34:00   fight but he might get undone by the

00:34:01   electoral college

00:34:02   yeah but I wouldn't mind having some

00:34:04   checks and balances on Santa Claus like

00:34:07   that's the difference here you can win

00:34:08   an election but maybe not just we're

00:34:10   gonna hand you the keys to power

00:34:11   entirely do you use your imagination

00:34:16   when you dream

00:34:18   I know dreamings of a favorite topic

00:34:20   yours I don't understand what that

00:34:23   question means yeah I don't really

00:34:26   either I just saw a dream and thought

00:34:28   other nope oh great yeah let's I feel

00:34:30   like that's a meaningless question if

00:34:32   you do something wrong when you are

00:34:33   drunk

00:34:34   should you feel less guilty than if you

00:34:37   had done it stone-cold sober oh you got

00:34:41   to answer this one Brady you answer this

00:34:43   one because I I feel like this is such a

00:34:44   hard question

00:34:45   this gets like the core of the universe

00:34:47   this question here I don't know the

00:34:49   answer to that you don't know the answer

00:34:50   to that I think you know you were

00:34:52   equipped with less tools to make a good

00:34:54   decision right but you took those tools

00:34:57   away from yourself when you decided to

00:34:58   have a bunch of drinks yeah it's a bit

00:35:01   like oh I was driving a car while

00:35:03   blindfolded no this was like huh I guess

00:35:06   it's less your fault that you got into

00:35:08   an accident but you put on a blindfold

00:35:09   it's like if you're still gonna find

00:35:10   fault there yeah with this question the

00:35:12   reason why I really stumble over it is

00:35:14   because if I were to disassemble this

00:35:17   question I think this question is

00:35:18   actually asking if you were to change

00:35:21   the nature of you are you as responsible

00:35:25   for your actions that very quickly gets

00:35:28   into it a thing where it's like it's

00:35:29   hard to know what to even say and this

00:35:31   like if you've changed yourself to be a

00:35:32   different person are you still

00:35:33   responsible like yes and kind of know it

00:35:38   it's I think this is why the law

00:35:40   wrestles put this subject as well I

00:35:42   can't come down solidly on this I will

00:35:44   just say get something on the record

00:35:47   here there's a thing people do that I

00:35:49   think is a bad habit that people should

00:35:52   get out of I think some people have the

00:35:54   idea that like when they're interacting

00:35:57   with someone who is drunk that somehow

00:36:00   that is the true person and I feel like

00:36:05   that is a strange and bad idea to have

00:36:08   in people's minds that they feel like oh

00:36:10   when the person gets drunk it's like the

00:36:12   veil is lifted onto the inner core of

00:36:14   the person the filters are removed yeah

00:36:17   that very concept of like oh you're

00:36:18   saying the things that you would say or

00:36:21   that you you are thinking but now we can

00:36:24   all see it because you're drunk I feel

00:36:26   like that is a bad idea for people to

00:36:28   have in their minds I think it's

00:36:29   nonsensical like you're dealing with the

00:36:32   person who's essentially a different

00:36:33   person now it's not like you're seeing

00:36:37   the core of the real person I think

00:36:39   that's a a strange and unhelpful idea

00:36:42   that lots of people seem to have I do I

00:36:45   think it's a strange thing to think it

00:36:47   might be a wrong thing to think but I

00:36:50   think it's strange

00:36:51   I see logic to it but it's kind of like

00:36:54   if someone were to take a bunch of LSD

00:36:56   like would you feel like you're seeing

00:36:58   the core of the person while they're

00:36:59   high on LSD I don't think people would

00:37:01   think that I think people have a concept

00:37:03   that oh this is a person whose mind has

00:37:05   now been dramatically changed I feel

00:37:08   like we just don't have that same

00:37:10   concept with something like alcohol

00:37:11   that's true but it's also true that for

00:37:14   example you may know things or have

00:37:16   opinions that you don't share with me

00:37:18   because you don't want to hurt my

00:37:22   feelings or you don't want me to find

00:37:24   out for various reasons and your

00:37:26   intellect is telling you that and if

00:37:28   that was taken away from you temporarily

00:37:29   I could have access to that information

00:37:32   I'm not saying that would tell me

00:37:34   anything little true.you but it would be

00:37:36   like I would find out information I

00:37:37   might not know otherwise I guess maybe

00:37:39   that is where that idea comes from

00:37:40   certain people can let something slip in

00:37:43   a coherent way while they're drinking

00:37:46   yeah that in LSD like all that's gonna

00:37:48   happen is if someone's gonna be hugging

00:37:50   you and telling you how you're a

00:37:51   beautiful butterfly and we're all one

00:37:52   with the universe and you're like okay

00:37:54   man like it's great but they're not like

00:37:56   yeah spilling their secrets okay I

00:37:58   retract strange but I stand by unhelpful

00:38:02   yes is vandalizing a speed camera the

00:38:07   same as vandalizing a lifebuoy by a

00:38:10   river but okay right you could you could

00:38:15   vandalize a speed camera so that

00:38:17   government can't give a bunch of fines

00:38:19   two people for speeding okay

00:38:20   or you could vandalize like a lifebuoy

00:38:22   by the river which is really handy

00:38:24   because it would save people's lives are

00:38:25   those two acts of vandalism equally bad

00:38:30   do you mean like there's buoys that mark

00:38:32   where you're not supposed to swim past

00:38:34   no I think like a ring that you would

00:38:36   throw out to someone to help them if

00:38:38   they were drowning okay yeah presume by

00:38:41   vandalize it like you've made it

00:38:42   non-functional yes not like you've drawn

00:38:44   a naughty picture on it no I feel like

00:38:50   vandalizing that the buoy is way worse I

00:38:52   think that's where the question is

00:38:53   leading one I'm trying like why do I

00:38:56   feel like the buoy is worse and like the

00:38:59   direct one-on-one nature makes it feel

00:39:01   worse like you've fallen off of a cruise

00:39:03   ship into the ocean someone goes to

00:39:04   throw you a lifeline and lol it falls to

00:39:08   pieces because some kid is have slashed

00:39:09   it to bits that feels like it like a

00:39:12   doubly bad situation while the Spade

00:39:14   camera while it can be life-saving

00:39:15   indirectly it's not quite say directly

00:39:18   life-saving and it is also revenue

00:39:20   raising for the government what do you

00:39:23   know it's surely not those things aren't

00:39:25   used for revenue I also feel like

00:39:27   there's a there's a vandalizing the

00:39:30   speed camera is less bad because the

00:39:33   speed cameras work because there are a

00:39:35   lot of them it's like you're attacking a

00:39:38   single node in a network and the

00:39:42   speed-camera its presence or absence is

00:39:45   not necessarily going to have a big

00:39:46   impact on does someone speed a lot or

00:39:49   not but the fact that there are a

00:39:51   hundred speed cameras in the city on

00:39:54   average may have some kind of

00:39:56   suppression effect although like even

00:39:58   how effective that is may be debatable

00:40:00   but like somebody drowning and reaching

00:40:02   out for a floating thing and the

00:40:04   floating thing breaks there's no debate

00:40:06   about that that's just undeniably bad

00:40:08   and in a very clear and direct way so

00:40:11   yeah it's like a speed camera is like a

00:40:14   politician no one likes it but it's kind

00:40:16   of necessary whereas the life boy is

00:40:18   like father Christmas everyone likes

00:40:20   about the Christmas right yeah okay yep

00:40:22   well perfect that's a perfect analogy so

00:40:27   here's a question you won't hear me

00:40:29   asking gray where do you go to register

00:40:31   domain names for current and upcoming

00:40:33   projects and that's because the answer

00:40:36   is obvious if you need a name on the web

00:40:38   register it with hover that's HOV er

00:40:43   sorry about my english pronunciation of

00:40:45   father and by the way if you have any

00:40:47   other domain names already registered

00:40:49   you should probably look into moving

00:40:51   them over to hover as well because it's

00:40:53   the best one-stop-shop for managing web

00:40:56   domains I have a bunch there already I

00:40:58   know gray does too some for current

00:41:00   projects some for upcoming future ideas

00:41:03   maybe something I'm planning to do maybe

00:41:06   a year or two down the line but I know I

00:41:08   want the name now those future domain

00:41:10   names by the way don't have to lay

00:41:11   dormant you can easily redirect them in

00:41:14   the interim for example if you've got a

00:41:16   plan to maybe one day you do a lawfully

00:41:18   approved base jump from the mighty black

00:41:21   stump you might want to register black

00:41:23   stump base jump com but until you get

00:41:26   approval from Adelaide City Council for

00:41:28   this audacious stunt you might have the

00:41:31   domain just redirect to another website

00:41:33   of your previous base-jumping adventures

00:41:35   now hover is definitely the place to do

00:41:37   this I cannot tell you how clean and

00:41:39   easier is to use no upsells no confusing

00:41:43   faff enos that you always see with these

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00:41:47   want to use that domain you've got your

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00:41:51   you want they make it so easy to attach

00:41:54   that

00:41:54   the domain to the website they've got

00:41:56   all the steps there I've done it a few

00:41:58   times now I was really impressed how

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00:42:02   really good stuff they have all the

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00:42:11   and as a hello Internet listener you can

00:42:13   get 10% off your first purchase you do

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00:42:23   automatically put the promo code hello

00:42:24   Internet and when you checkout that's

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00:42:33   thanks to them for supporting the

00:42:34   podcast seriously check them out can you

00:42:39   think of two things at the same time I

00:42:43   bet you like that question that comes

00:42:47   down to what do you mean by the word

00:42:48   think I'm just reading the words what do

00:42:53   you think do you think two things at the

00:42:55   same time in your head I don't think so

00:42:57   consciously like conscious deliberate

00:43:00   thought right I mean obviously I can

00:43:02   talk to you in juggle at the same time

00:43:03   right but I don't know I don't know how

00:43:06   the brain works I know that's the thing

00:43:11   on the other end of this microphone we

00:43:13   know like oh well let me pull out my PhD

00:43:15   in brain like nope I don't know how

00:43:18   brains work either like just a dude on

00:43:20   the internet who's made a video about

00:43:22   brains like I don't know I'm never aware

00:43:25   of thinking two things at the same time

00:43:27   that's for sure you're at your lack of

00:43:29   internal monologue I also find weird but

00:43:31   um okay so thinking two things at the

00:43:34   same time what I'm thinking here is I

00:43:37   can talk to you right now

00:43:40   while I am visualizing an elephant in my

00:43:43   brain like does that count about as

00:43:45   thinking two things at the same time to

00:43:48   me though maybe I'm wrong about this but

00:43:49   when you're visualizing the elephant and

00:43:51   talking to me you're not actually doing

00:43:54   two things at the same time you're just

00:43:55   jumping between the two things over a

00:43:57   microsecond by microsecond you think

00:43:59   you're switching back and forth between

00:44:00   the two mm-hmm I think at the exact

00:44:03   moment you're actually thinking of the

00:44:05   clever thing you want to say to me you

00:44:07   are momentarily

00:44:08   using the elephant yeah this also gets

00:44:10   really to the core of like I'm not

00:44:12   convinced that talking is thinking

00:44:13   because talking seems to be a thing that

00:44:15   just happens certainly for us in ninety

00:44:17   five episodes of like I mean going to

00:44:20   the very very core of like what we

00:44:21   started talking about the beginning of

00:44:22   this podcast I like to talk about this

00:44:24   as a topic with creative people but it

00:44:26   is a thing that you can make people

00:44:28   aware of just in their regular life

00:44:29   which is like just pay attention while

00:44:32   you're talking and you will realize you

00:44:35   have no idea how you're doing it it's

00:44:37   just a thing that happens and that even

00:44:40   when you think you're thinking about

00:44:41   talking like you don't know where those

00:44:43   thoughts like it is just an automatic

00:44:46   process and there is something about

00:44:48   that realization which is absolutely

00:44:50   terrifying and it is ten times

00:44:53   terrifying when say like you do a

00:44:56   podcast for a living because you have to

00:44:59   come like face to face with the concept

00:45:01   of one of the core things that you do

00:45:03   for a living

00:45:03   you fundamentally have no idea how you

00:45:06   do it it just happens this is what I

00:45:08   mean like the question very quickly gets

00:45:10   to the concept of like what is thinking

00:45:12   because I feel like I could easily say

00:45:15   that talking isn't any kind of thinking

00:45:17   that there's not any thinking that's

00:45:19   occurring while talking is happening and

00:45:21   that visualizing an elephant to me seems

00:45:23   like this is what thinking is or closing

00:45:26   my mouth and then listening to the

00:45:28   internal dialogue in my head that that's

00:45:30   what thinking is and then if you're like

00:45:33   okay thinking is the words that you hear

00:45:34   in your head is like well then that's

00:45:36   very clear there's only ever one voice

00:45:38   talking in your head and if that's what

00:45:40   thoughts are then no it's not possible

00:45:42   to think about two things at once there

00:45:45   is a component to conversation that

00:45:47   obviously isn't talking but there is

00:45:48   that part of you where you're thinking

00:45:50   about what you will say next and you're

00:45:52   even anticipating what that person will

00:45:53   then say to what you're going to say so

00:45:56   conversation is obviously very full of

00:45:58   thought but yeah the actual talking part

00:46:00   when you actually like put the foot down

00:46:02   on the talking accelerator yeah it does

00:46:04   become very strangely automated is

00:46:07   something I think I think I've mentioned

00:46:09   this in how they were internet before

00:46:10   but I noticed it again the other day

00:46:12   actually and I don't know whether I've

00:46:13   Eve ever told me if it happens to you

00:46:16   but if you happen to for some reason

00:46:18   ever hear an old piece of you podcasting

00:46:21   do you find you always almost know

00:46:26   exactly what you're gonna say next and

00:46:28   not because you remember what you said

00:46:29   but just because you're so predictable

00:46:30   in your head like sometimes when I hear

00:46:33   at a conversation that I've had with you

00:46:34   in the past like the silly joke or the

00:46:37   question that I ask next and other thing

00:46:39   I say I very often anticipate and I

00:46:42   don't think it's because I remember the

00:46:43   conversation because I don't I think

00:46:45   it's just because I'm so so predictable

00:46:47   when I'm done with these episodes I

00:46:50   don't think I have ever listened to a

00:46:51   hello internet episode after it's gone

00:46:53   live unless I'm preparing for a show

00:46:58   yeah but even then I haven't done that

00:47:00   very recently but what I do have is a

00:47:03   thing when I am editing let's say that

00:47:06   the only thing I'm doing is I'm looking

00:47:08   at the screen I'm looking at the

00:47:09   waveforms I'm editing the podcast

00:47:11   especially when I'm doing it for the

00:47:13   first time so I'm listening to the raw

00:47:15   conversation exactly as it happened hmm

00:47:18   I'm aware that I can get almost caught

00:47:21   in a weird loop where I don't know how

00:47:25   to describe it but it's almost like my

00:47:26   brain is just like a wagon going

00:47:29   westward in these really well-worn

00:47:31   tracks and there's no ability to even

00:47:33   turn off the tracks mm-hmm it's

00:47:36   sometimes the thing I have to kind of

00:47:37   break out of or it's like what happened

00:47:39   to me I feel like I just disappeared and

00:47:41   this conversation is happening through

00:47:43   my brain and my brain is just this very

00:47:46   predictable machine which is like

00:47:49   repeating the exact things that it is

00:47:53   saying in the past like it's it's very

00:47:56   hard to describe but it does feel like I

00:47:57   lose myself and can kind of forget that

00:48:00   I'm supposed to be here editing a

00:48:02   podcast it's more like my brain has gone

00:48:04   on some kind of autopilot because it's

00:48:06   receiving the exact same inputs and

00:48:10   hearing the exact same outputs that it

00:48:13   would produce so I think this is a

00:48:15   similar experience to what you're

00:48:17   talking about but it's just yeah I think

00:48:20   so too I intentionally especially when

00:48:22   I'm doing the first edit I intentionally

00:48:25   want to have something visual to do

00:48:27   which is very often like playing a video

00:48:28   game because it helps

00:48:31   keep me actually more focused on the

00:48:33   conversation I think that that's that's

00:48:36   part of it is like break this little

00:48:39   self-similar pattern by having something

00:48:41   else that you're paying attention to

00:48:42   that's like I can hear the podcast more

00:48:45   clearly when I'm visually doing

00:48:48   something else and I think that's part

00:48:49   of the reason why I was gonna slightly

00:48:52   modify this next question just to tone

00:48:53   it down but I think it's kind of it's

00:48:55   starkness and harshness is what makes

00:48:57   the question work so I'm gonna read it

00:48:59   as printed go for it would you accept a

00:49:02   heart transplant from a rapist

00:49:04   I mean I'm dying here right yeah I

00:49:06   presume you like at doing it recreation

00:49:07   yeah like it's not recreational heart

00:49:09   transplant surgery yeah um yeah I would

00:49:11   do that I would have no problem with

00:49:13   that because I feel like it is a piece

00:49:15   of meat I wouldn't accept a brain

00:49:17   transplant from a rapist but like if we

00:49:21   could take a rapist and cut him up into

00:49:22   all the different pieces and distribute

00:49:23   them all to people and you could save

00:49:26   lives with those pieces like I don't see

00:49:27   how that's not good

00:49:28   well let me ask her another question

00:49:29   that's a good answer let me change the

00:49:31   question on you hmm if a rapist died and

00:49:34   left all their money to you in their

00:49:36   will and the money wasn't gained by

00:49:39   illegal means right would you accept the

00:49:41   money from a rapist yes that's an easier

00:49:44   one and I would say no but money's money

00:49:46   like heart is a mate yeah your heart is

00:49:50   made a lot isn't it is the Reese yes

00:49:52   that is true you can use that as the

00:49:53   title of the episode if you like oh

00:49:55   you're doing the episode title fishing

00:49:56   while we're doing it now that's that's

00:49:58   terrible radiation I'm thinking of

00:50:00   multiple things at once it you shouldn't

00:50:01   be doing metacognition on the podcast

00:50:03   will holder recording I was also

00:50:04   imagining an elephant as I said the

00:50:08   distinction here is okay so I I I'm

00:50:11   gonna take your modification modify it

00:50:13   again yeah I am a popper in need of

00:50:16   life-saving surgery that I cannot pay

00:50:19   for and a rapist dies and leaves me his

00:50:22   money that I can use to pay for the

00:50:24   surgery would I use the money to pay for

00:50:26   the surgery yes even if it was

00:50:28   ill-gotten money even if it was

00:50:30   ill-gotten money I would use the money

00:50:32   that had been left to me yeah presumably

00:50:34   that this is like not an illegal

00:50:35   situation I don't know exactly how that

00:50:37   works no no yeah that no you're right

00:50:39   you're not breaking the law

00:50:40   right if I am not breaking the law and

00:50:42   like a rapist leaves me some money that

00:50:44   I can use

00:50:45   on a surgery to save my own life I would

00:50:47   totally do that but the situation is now

00:50:49   it's like I am CGP grey podcaster

00:50:52   YouTube creator video game live streamer

00:50:55   dog walker dog well that's dog walker

00:50:57   actually by sheer number of hours that

00:51:00   is now my heart is profession probably

00:51:02   in that situation like a rapist dies and

00:51:05   leaves me some money like that is just

00:51:06   going immediately to a like a woman

00:51:09   shelter right like I'm just redirecting

00:51:10   that money straight away it's like yeah

00:51:12   yeah money is money but the reason that

00:51:15   the original scenario works is because

00:51:17   it's a question about like saving your

00:51:19   life it's nade yeah it's what you see

00:51:21   it's innate must yeah that's what makes

00:51:24   the the difference in that scenario

00:51:26   fair answer would you brainy I am a bit

00:51:29   squeamish about accepting a heart

00:51:30   transplant rapist but I am also a bit

00:51:33   squeamish about dying from heart disease

00:51:35   when I don't have to so the eternal void

00:51:37   that'll wait - yeah - bit squeamish

00:51:39   about that if someone changed your life

00:51:41   for the better

00:51:43   by lying to you would it be a good Act

00:51:46   mmm God I say yes here's a problem I

00:51:52   have with that quite the the phrasing of

00:51:53   that question yeah this reminds me of

00:51:56   like sometimes in movies when you you

00:51:59   are given the like the all-seeing

00:52:01   perspective and you know something for

00:52:03   sure and when you're watching it like

00:52:05   that changes how you perceive characters

00:52:07   in a movie it's like oh but you know for

00:52:09   sure this thing did or did not happen so

00:52:11   I feel like that question is starting

00:52:14   out by positing there like this will for

00:52:17   sure always be a net positive if this

00:52:20   person lies to you and I feel like the

00:52:23   real world is much more complicated than

00:52:27   that but I under the premise that this

00:52:29   question is asking I think the answer is

00:52:32   is yes but I'm I'm very hesitant to say

00:52:36   that as like social stamp of approval

00:52:39   for lying to make people feel better

00:52:44   exactly I think the answer is yes but

00:52:46   they took a tremendous risk I think

00:52:48   there are far far fewer situations where

00:52:51   even things like White Lies but like

00:52:53   lying to make someone better I think

00:52:56   there are fewer ways that actual

00:52:58   works then people think it works right

00:53:02   that's why I feel hesitant about this

00:53:04   just because it's like I don't want

00:53:07   people to hear me like writing a check

00:53:09   that I'm not really going to cash I'm

00:53:11   agreeing under very narrow circumstances

00:53:14   this next question is a bit similar to

00:53:16   something we've already discussed and

00:53:17   it's also high-stakes trolley problem

00:53:20   here no no no the trolley problem if you

00:53:22   could save the planet by wiping out half

00:53:25   the population of the human race should

00:53:27   you wait the planet I don't know I guess

00:53:30   they're saying is it ok to kill half the

00:53:32   humans in the world if they're all going

00:53:34   to die otherwise do you mean the planet

00:53:36   like we're saving Mother Earth because

00:53:38   I'm not real interested in that but is

00:53:41   my alternative we can move everybody to

00:53:43   Mars and not save the planet and like ah

00:53:47   well whatever it's just like Antarctica

00:53:48   into the sea it goes ok yeah so you're

00:53:51   taking the planet a bit as just at the

00:53:53   rock but like if the question is would

00:53:55   you kill half of everybody to save

00:53:58   everybody like I can barely understand

00:54:00   how the answer could possibly be no I

00:54:02   wouldn't do that well some people would

00:54:04   take the position that it's not my role

00:54:06   to kill other humans yet alone half the

00:54:08   humans so if we're all going to die so

00:54:11   be it it was God's will well you know

00:54:13   you you can die with them or you can die

00:54:15   for them that makes no sound like we're

00:54:16   all going to die anyway if you can just

00:54:18   have half the people die and half the

00:54:20   people survive that is obviously better

00:54:23   the problem I have with this as well as

00:54:24   like once you start talking about the

00:54:27   complete extinction of everybody it's

00:54:30   like a tragedy without any parallel when

00:54:34   you talk about like the complete

00:54:36   extinction of conscious human experience

00:54:40   from the universe there's like nothing

00:54:42   you can possibly put on the opposite end

00:54:45   of that scale except for maybe a puppy

00:54:47   it's just too big it's hard to imagine

00:54:50   anything that could counterbalance that

00:54:52   should your estate own the emails in

00:54:55   your inbox

00:54:58   oh I thought you just say yes of course

00:55:02   next question it's funny I have had this

00:55:04   is like a thing for the show for a while

00:55:06   back I think this there is so much

00:55:07   weirdness in the digital world around

00:55:09   people dying I think the answer is

00:55:14   legally it is the case that like you

00:55:17   your emails and things become just part

00:55:19   of it but there's I read awhile back

00:55:21   like Facebook has this whole process

00:55:23   about like memorializing pages and you

00:55:26   know what is the process for when

00:55:27   someone dies on Facebook like what is

00:55:29   going to happen like your estate might

00:55:31   think ah

00:55:32   CGP graves personal emails are really

00:55:34   like saucy and interesting or

00:55:36   controversial we could turn these into a

00:55:38   book and squeeze another five hundred

00:55:40   thousand pounds out of his estate mm-hmm

00:55:43   and that's not very fair on you because

00:55:44   when you died you didn't want that to

00:55:45   happen they were like your conversations

00:55:47   yeah they should just like disappear

00:55:49   like you have not be capitalized and

00:55:52   used and manipulated and liquidated and

00:55:56   I may be a little extreme in this

00:55:58   position but I feel very strongly that a

00:56:01   lot of our digital lives should be

00:56:03   treated the same way that we treat

00:56:06   thoughts in our heads yeah I know that

00:56:08   that is not practical for a whole bunch

00:56:09   of reasons but that is partly why like I

00:56:12   pause there because there's something

00:56:14   about like there's something about that

00:56:16   question that feels a little bit like

00:56:17   when you die should the complete record

00:56:21   of all of the thoughts you ever had in

00:56:23   your life be available to your estate

00:56:24   and it's like well of course you know in

00:56:27   one sense I'm dead it doesn't really

00:56:28   matter to me but on the other senses

00:56:30   like wow it feels like an incredible

00:56:32   invasion so much of an invasion that

00:56:35   even though I will be dead it's like

00:56:37   while I'm alive that would that would

00:56:38   feel like whoa I can't believe this is

00:56:40   going to happen so it's been weighing

00:56:42   down on you because I was gonna say

00:56:43   you're dead surely you don't care but

00:56:44   you're saying it's weighed down on you

00:56:46   while you're alive so much that it

00:56:48   shouldn't have been the case there's

00:56:49   also a society question here like should

00:56:51   the record of everyone's thoughts be

00:56:52   available when that person dies and like

00:56:54   I'm not sure that would be good for

00:56:55   society either

00:56:56   I guess there is something about this

00:56:58   which I just feel like a large number of

00:57:00   like the stuff that lives on a person's

00:57:02   phone is very similar in my head to the

00:57:04   stuff that lives in the person's brain

00:57:06   and you in the course of your life are

00:57:10   making decisions about what parts of

00:57:12   that do you want to externalize or not

00:57:15   you take a picture of say an adorable

00:57:18   Audrey and then you make a decision

00:57:19   about whether or not that adorable

00:57:21   Audrey photo is going to be for you or

00:57:23   it's going to be for the world on

00:57:26   Instagram and the state question there

00:57:29   feels like does the world or your does

00:57:31   your estate get to have access to all of

00:57:34   the Audrey photos that you took and made

00:57:38   some decision about keeping for you

00:57:41   during the course of your life as

00:57:42   opposed to just the ones that you decide

00:57:44   to put out in the world there so and I

00:57:47   don't have a good answer but I think

00:57:49   that I think the legal answer is yes

00:57:50   this question like on the face of it

00:57:52   might be one way you say oh I'm not

00:57:54   going there but maybe otherwise should

00:57:58   stupid people be prevented from voting

00:58:01   I'm happy to go there my position on

00:58:05   this is if we lived in a perfect world

00:58:09   only people who are informed on the

00:58:11   topic should be voting on that topic but

00:58:14   I can't conceive of any way in the real

00:58:20   world you could implement anything like

00:58:23   that that wouldn't be worse than the

00:58:24   problem you're trying to solve so I'm

00:58:27   gonna give a hard no on preventing

00:58:30   stupid people from voting because I just

00:58:33   think that there's not anything that you

00:58:34   could do that doesn't just immediately

00:58:38   become another tool in the like

00:58:40   gerrymandering voter suppression arsenal

00:58:43   of politics here's a here's my question

00:58:45   I don't want this to come out the wrong

00:58:46   way my question would be should stupid

00:58:48   people be prevented from having babies I

00:58:51   don't mean because they'll have like a

00:58:52   dumb baby I don't mean it I mean you

00:58:55   don't mean because you're like Brady

00:58:56   Himmler right now no I mean it more in

00:58:59   the context of they could be bad parents

00:59:01   I sometimes say really bad parenting and

00:59:04   I I guess what I sometimes think is

00:59:05   shouldn't people like have to get a

00:59:07   license for this like they do get a

00:59:09   license to drive a car we have to maybe

00:59:11   a better way to ask the question that

00:59:13   would upset less people would be should

00:59:14   stupid people be allowed to have puppies

00:59:18   because that's getting to the same

00:59:19   problem at slightly lower stakes but I

00:59:21   sometimes think people have been given

00:59:24   responsibility for things in the world

00:59:27   at a time when they don't seem equipped

00:59:29   to exercise that responsibility it seems

00:59:33   crazy to me that you you don't even have

00:59:37   to just like take a like a course like

00:59:39   an evening class or anything before you

00:59:42   have a baby the shame of this problem

00:59:44   has a lot of the same issues of like

00:59:46   preventing stupid people from vote which

00:59:47   is like oh the details of this system

00:59:49   really matter here's the thing I'm not

00:59:51   even convinced that an evening course in

00:59:56   parenting would teach anybody anything