Roderick on the Line

01:00:00 ◼   ► what are you paying for the place [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► exactly where are we staying yeah am I [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► staying with you that only happened [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► because in that four months she and I [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► talked on Twitter with a bunch of other [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► people who were also fun and funny all [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► day you know by the time she made that [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► phone call we knew each other yeah yeah [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► and what when would that have ever [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► happened before you know so anyway this [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► proposal was like why don't we just buy [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► it and and declare it a UNESCO site and [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► we'll govern it and we won't let Nazis [TS]

01:00:41 ◼   ► and we won't let boobs and butts and we [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► will restore it to what it was which was [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► like a like a true human accomplishment [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► and every was like between a national [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► park and a Superfund site right what [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► starts as a Superfund site but we'd like [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► to eventually turn it into a national [TS]

01:01:01 ◼   ► parks leaves a little bit and it seemed [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► it seemed briefly plausible like wow [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► right the people at Twitter don't care [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► anymore all they want as money they just [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► want to get out I think probably most of [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► them and give them their money you know [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► they made their money gets to keep their [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► accounts yeah you guys that's great jack [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► like here's some money is that what you [TS]

01:01:28 ◼   ► is that would that make you happy but [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► you can't beam back to your home planet [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► yeah you can go now go with your money [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► human emotions are strange [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► I mean emotions and leave it to us give [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► it back to us right but that idea that [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► every single thing needs to be monetized [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► to within an inch of its life that [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► Facebook doesn't have enough money and [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► that they need a billion more customers [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► because they need what to control [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► everything right what's your end game [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► what's the end game this you'll know [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► this will have been super successful in [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► what happens when what happened yeah [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► precisely and is the stuff you're doing [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► now is this the direction that you [TS]

01:02:12 ◼   ► consider moving too [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► other success and are we we are nothing [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► right we are just we a hundred thousand [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► people come and go every second matrix [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► batteries we're pod boys yeah I'm saying [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► just can't see on Ariz or the garden [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► hose in our neck I want to reach out to [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► people and say do you have a good idea [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► like the guy that had the idea of URLs [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► gave it to the world for free I mean he [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► just said here you go right I'm not [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► gonna copyright dot-com this is a thing [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► that needed to happen right and here it [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► is like I built it it didn't take that [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► much it was like a brainstorm I had and [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► it took a couple of little bits to build [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► but it didn't you know the idea that [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► Twitter or Facebook represent that some [TS]

01:03:09 ◼   ► intellectual property that we we we all [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► know was the result of like a one night [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► brainstorm and offend a few weeks of [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► coding like it isn't the same as [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► building the the infrastructure to bring [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► water to New York City right it just [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► isn't it was some guys in a dorm who [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► were like hahaha what if we what if we [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► made a website where you could judge [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► people's faces and thumbs-up thumbs-down [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► I mean it was it was like sick and it [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► score from the from the very dawn but [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► but Twitter I mean you know you know how [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► Twitter got me and you were there like [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► it was it was like oh I don't here why [TS]

01:03:52 ◼   ► don't we do this it'll be like an SMS [TS]

01:03:54 ◼   ► for friends and we can say like oh I'm [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► going to the taco place and then [TS]

01:03:58 ◼   ► everybody you won't have to text [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► everybody individually had a good run [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► like that's not a fucking idea that's [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► worth a billion dollars it's just a [TS]

01:04:07 ◼   ► fucking idea that you could have had and [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► given as much as you a little bit of [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► what happens in pharmaceuticals where [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► you come up with no like an axiom or [TS]

01:04:18 ◼   ► something they say you come up with [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► always the big allergy one like claritin [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► you come up with some new formulation [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► and you get a patent on it for how [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► many years like five years or whatever [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► is and then you have to re-up your [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► patent so you've got to figure out what [TS]

01:04:29 ◼   ► most of them I think end up doing is [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► slightly changing the delivery mechanism [TS]

01:04:33 ◼   ► and getting a patent on that we were [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► able to like string this out longer and [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► longer bridge like MIT can we Houston do [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► we like start giving the clarity in a [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► way at prices that are normal for [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► everybody it's like well that's not [TS]

01:04:43 ◼   ► really how this model works right we [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► move the button yay for us sorry about [TS]

01:04:49 ◼   ► the Nazis yeah you see that a lot where [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► where I feel like I've seen that several [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► startups that I that I have like sort of [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► tangential knowledge of where they had [TS]

01:05:01 ◼   ► 15 employees and they felt like they [TS]

01:05:04 ◼   ► needed 50 in order to build the business [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► so they hired 50 but then they've got 50 [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► employees and they need to earn money to [TS]

01:05:13 ◼   ► pay the 50 employees so they need a [TS]

01:05:15 ◼   ► hundred employees to make enough money [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► to pay the 50 employees and it's just [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► this like this mentality of the [TS]

01:05:22 ◼   ► voracious growth that no one wants to [TS]

01:05:25 ◼   ► run a 15 person company anymore that's [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► really good and sleek and makes an [TS]

01:05:31 ◼   ► income for everybody and is stable and [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► it's not growing by leaps and bounds and [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► you're not gonna sell it for fifteen [TS]

01:05:39 ◼   ► million dollars when you're 28 years old [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► it's just a job that you gave yourself [TS]

01:05:44 ◼   ► but that's like pleasing and you go home [TS]

01:05:47 ◼   ► at night and you feel satisfied by your [TS]

01:05:48 ◼   ► work like my mom was talking about her [TS]

01:05:51 ◼   ► brother the other day and she said well [TS]

01:05:53 ◼   ► he retired from you know so hyoe at 50 [TS]

01:05:59 ◼   ► and I said he retired at 50 she said [TS]

01:06:04 ◼   ► yeah that's what used to happen you'd [TS]

01:06:05 ◼   ► started a job when you were 20 and then [TS]

01:06:07 ◼   ► 50 you'd worked there 30 years and you [TS]

01:06:09 ◼   ► retired with a full retirement I was [TS]

01:06:13 ◼   ► like am I just hearing about this for [TS]

01:06:15 ◼   ► the first time is this what people talk [TS]

01:06:17 ◼   ► about when they say this that things [TS]

01:06:19 ◼   ► have changed what do you mean what did [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► he do then oh you know he got a sailboat [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► and he did some stuff and I'm like 50 [TS]

01:06:29 ◼   ► I'm 50 yeah [TS]

01:06:31 ◼   ► I'm 50 I don't I don't have what are you [TS]

01:06:36 ◼   ► talking about yeah she's like think [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► about the people that join [TS]

01:06:39 ◼   ► the army when they're 20 Beirut ISIL [TS]

01:06:41 ◼   ► vote for a retired of forty retired [TS]

01:06:45 ◼   ► because she was rich or been retired [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► because she had done twenty years at a [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► company and guys she used Excel in the [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► Air Force for twenty years twenty years [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► she retired yeah from the Air Force yeah [TS]

01:06:56 ◼   ► yeah with with my fears thank you for [TS]

01:06:59 ◼   ► your service freedom you know Mike [TS]

01:07:17 ◼   ► Squires has did did a pretty good stint [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► in the Marine Corps really Mike grew up [TS]

01:07:25 ◼   ► in a in a very rural Washington town and [TS]

01:07:28 ◼   ► the and the kind of the writing was on [TS]

01:07:31 ◼   ► the wall about how life was gonna go and [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► he decided that he was not gonna go that [TS]

01:07:37 ◼   ► way [TS]

01:07:38 ◼   ► and joined the Marines the family math [TS]

01:07:39 ◼   ► business yeah he was he said you know [TS]

01:07:42 ◼   ► I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take over [TS]

01:07:44 ◼   ► from my from the from the weakest uncle [TS]

01:07:48 ◼   ► as the young younger enforcer for the [TS]

01:07:57 ◼   ► yeah uncle Tony [TS]

01:08:01 ◼   ► sorry pal come take a walk with us in [TS]

01:08:05 ◼   ► the desert the keys to the pickup truck [TS]

01:08:12 ◼   ► you shall wear the crap he joined the [TS]

01:08:16 ◼   ► Marines that he got out he got out of [TS]

01:08:18 ◼   ► his little town he got out of the cycle [TS]

01:08:20 ◼   ► of rural shittiness took the midnight [TS]

01:08:23 ◼   ► train going anywhere [TS]

01:08:24 ◼   ► did the streetlight people and then very [TS]

01:08:32 ◼   ► crucially he did not go back to his [TS]

01:08:35 ◼   ► little shitty town with his duffel bag [TS]

01:08:37 ◼   ► and like hug his high school sweetheart [TS]

01:08:39 ◼   ► he went to Seattle and he bought a bass [TS]

01:08:41 ◼   ► guitar and was like fuck it but what he [TS]

01:08:45 ◼   ► did in the Marines was sat at a [TS]

01:08:48 ◼   ► typewriter yeah and he's got that's a [TS]

01:08:50 ◼   ► lot of people I mean he go [TS]

01:08:52 ◼   ► big biceps and he's got tattoos that say [TS]

01:08:54 ◼   ► like USMC anyway impugning my Corps or [TS]

01:08:58 ◼   ► Marines in general but that's that's [TS]

01:08:59 ◼   ► part of what makes me laugh in a way [TS]

01:09:01 ◼   ► I'll never laugh publicly is like when [TS]

01:09:03 ◼   ► everybody's always just jizzing [TS]

01:09:04 ◼   ► themselves so hard over the troops in [TS]

01:09:06 ◼   ► the first-responder is that it's like [TS]

01:09:07 ◼   ► yeah but you know they also they got [TS]

01:09:11 ◼   ► their education and their pension and [TS]

01:09:13 ◼   ► everything paid for in a way that my [TS]

01:09:14 ◼   ► kids teacher does not the you know the [TS]

01:09:18 ◼   ► the support staff Merlyn is just as [TS]

01:09:21 ◼   ► important as those frontline troops the [TS]

01:09:22 ◼   ► wrestler is important as the notes I am [TS]

01:09:24 ◼   ► mocking Mike just because it's gender [TS]

01:09:29 ◼   ► salutely kick my ass sure even right now [TS]

01:09:33 ◼   ► even as fat as he is you know one of [TS]

01:09:51 ◼   ► those one of those things when I'm [TS]

01:09:52 ◼   ► sitting around not thinking about [TS]

01:09:53 ◼   ► burying shipping containers in the [TS]

01:09:55 ◼   ► desert to put Donald Rumsfeld yeah you [TS]

01:09:58 ◼   ► know a big a big a big idea that isn't [TS]

01:10:02 ◼   ► really even that big is the idea of [TS]

01:10:03 ◼   ► national service that encompasses things [TS]

01:10:06 ◼   ► other than the army and you know the [TS]

01:10:09 ◼   ► Israeli model of 18 to 20 everybody [TS]

01:10:12 ◼   ► serves but you can choose to work for [TS]

01:10:17 ◼   ► the National Park Service cut trail [TS]

01:10:19 ◼   ► leave cut trail he worked for the [TS]

01:10:20 ◼   ► Department of the Interior you work for [TS]

01:10:23 ◼   ► the National Endowment for the Arts you [TS]

01:10:26 ◼   ► you know you do two years of public [TS]

01:10:29 ◼   ► service in one of a million different [TS]

01:10:34 ◼   ► ways but it'd be considered equivalent [TS]

01:10:37 ◼   ► to military service because if you do [TS]

01:10:40 ◼   ► totally agree voluntary work at the at [TS]

01:10:43 ◼   ► the National Endowment for the Arts [TS]

01:10:44 ◼   ► making it easier or you work for the [TS]

01:10:47 ◼   ► Department of Transportation like that [TS]

01:10:50 ◼   ► is that is an equivalent service to your [TS]

01:10:54 ◼   ► country and your people and the idea [TS]

01:10:56 ◼   ► that there you know [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► there are there are people risking their [TS]

01:11:01 ◼   ► lives on battlefields but in question [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► you know if the person who is driving [TS]

01:11:09 ◼   ► the truck that's bringing the bottled [TS]

01:11:10 ◼   ► water to the people that are doing that [TS]

01:11:14 ◼   ► work on the battlefield [TS]

01:11:15 ◼   ► is as integral to that machine as the [TS]

01:11:19 ◼   ► fighter then the people who are making [TS]

01:11:22 ◼   ► the roads back home work better and the [TS]

01:11:25 ◼   ► people that are making America stronger [TS]

01:11:27 ◼   ► by having a more devoted national [TS]

01:11:30 ◼   ► commitment to the arts are also engaged [TS]

01:11:32 ◼   ► in the same battle my kids my kids [TS]

01:11:34 ◼   ► principal works about 12 hours a day and [TS]

01:11:36 ◼   ► can't afford to live in San Francisco [TS]

01:11:37 ◼   ► yeah she's in East Bay yeah [TS]

01:11:40 ◼   ► and that's that's insane and that is a [TS]

01:11:42 ◼   ► terrible miss allocation of resources [TS]

01:11:45 ◼   ► but also it is it speaks to a like a [TS]

01:11:50 ◼   ► like a core to climb in our values that [TS]

01:11:53 ◼   ► I cannot I cannot yell enough about yeah [TS]

01:11:58 ◼   ► and I think people are both you know [TS]

01:11:59 ◼   ► people people may feel like this is all [TS]

01:12:03 ◼   ► some kind of crusty attitude and that [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► that once we turn the next corner and [TS]

01:12:12 ◼   ► we're all wearing heads-up displays and [TS]

01:12:13 ◼   ► walking around with Madame Butterfly [TS]

01:12:16 ◼   ► strapped in our Underpants I think it [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► does the cloud is like we are producing [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► 7 milliliters effluvium hour it doesn't [TS]

01:12:32 ◼   ► waste your check it doesn't moisture [TS]

01:12:34 ◼   ► check - bump it was Nixon that won it [TS]

01:12:45 ◼   ► that took us into China right yeah it's [TS]

01:12:47 ◼   ► affixing yeah and as much as that's a [TS]

01:12:50 ◼   ► Mussolini made the trains run on time [TS]

01:12:52 ◼   ► argument yeah I also feel that it may [TS]

01:12:55 ◼   ► one day be a liberal Democrat or a [TS]

01:12:58 ◼   ► liberal politician that reintroduces the [TS]

01:13:01 ◼   ► idea of a compulsory national service a [TS]

01:13:05 ◼   ► peacetime draft [TS]

01:13:07 ◼   ► but that draft includes a and to work at [TS]

01:13:13 ◼   ► the Department of Transportation is [TS]

01:13:15 ◼   ► considered equivalent to having been in [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► the Army because because it is [TS]

01:13:19 ◼   ► ultimately and that if we you know we we [TS]

01:13:25 ◼   ► spend I spent a lot of time in the last [TS]

01:13:28 ◼   ► year talking to people in the military [TS]

01:13:29 ◼   ► and officers in the military and for the [TS]

01:13:32 ◼   ► most part they say the same thing which [TS]

01:13:35 ◼   ► is that they consider themselves [TS]

01:13:36 ◼   ► apolitical [TS]

01:13:39 ◼   ► but that they support the military and [TS]

01:13:42 ◼   ► so they support politicians that support [TS]

01:13:45 ◼   ► the military and those politicians tend [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► to be more Republican than Democrats so [TS]

01:13:50 ◼   ► that's how they fall but really right [TS]

01:13:53 ◼   ► they support the military and that is [TS]

01:13:55 ◼   ► their church and when you say to them [TS]

01:13:59 ◼   ► well alright but what about this weapons [TS]

01:14:02 ◼   ► platform that is a hundred times over [TS]

01:14:06 ◼   ► budget has been proved over and over [TS]

01:14:09 ◼   ► again to not work it was designed at a [TS]

01:14:12 ◼   ► time when the mission was different than [TS]

01:14:14 ◼   ► it is now so there's no mission for it [TS]

01:14:16 ◼   ► anymore it's a total boondoggle and if [TS]

01:14:19 ◼   ► they keep crashing how do you feel about [TS]

01:14:21 ◼   ► that and they're like well the billions [TS]

01:14:25 ◼   ► of dollars that we pour into that go to [TS]

01:14:26 ◼   ► the people that work for the military [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► and the companies that support the [TS]

01:14:31 ◼   ► military so even though it is a [TS]

01:14:33 ◼   ► shitstorm I believe that in the end it [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► benefits the country because it benefits [TS]

01:14:41 ◼   ► the military and that's the point at [TS]

01:14:43 ◼   ► which you realize like oh right they are [TS]

01:14:48 ◼   ► I understand that they're nonpartisan [TS]

01:14:51 ◼   ► but also they should not be in charge of [TS]

01:14:54 ◼   ► that decision mm-hmm because they have a [TS]

01:14:58 ◼   ► they can't be blamed for self-interest [TS]

01:15:02 ◼   ► makes it sound more nefarious than it is [TS]

01:15:04 ◼   ► but they they can't be faulted for doing [TS]

01:15:07 ◼   ► the thing that they think is right that [TS]

01:15:08 ◼   ► happens to support I mean they do yeah I [TS]

01:15:11 ◼   ► can fault them but but i but i but i do [TS]

01:15:14 ◼   ► feel like we have listeners we have less [TS]

01:15:16 ◼   ► producer we should thank the further [TS]

01:15:17 ◼   ► service they love it thank you all for [TS]

01:15:19 ◼   ► your service [TS]

01:15:21 ◼   ► I know we do and I know and I mean I'm [TS]

01:15:23 ◼   ► engaged in this debate with with several [TS]

01:15:25 ◼   ► of them offline but they lady M me and [TS]

01:15:29 ◼   ► they say that thing you said is wrong [TS]

01:15:32 ◼   ► and I say you're wrong and then we have [TS]

01:15:35 ◼   ► a lively discussion because everybody [TS]

01:15:37 ◼   ► loves to start that way but but note [TS]

01:15:40 ◼   ► that that is why we have civilian [TS]

01:15:42 ◼   ► oversight of the military but the [TS]

01:15:44 ◼   ► problem is that if you put into office [TS]

01:15:45 ◼   ► people that get into office by saying I [TS]

01:15:48 ◼   ► will reflexively support the military [TS]

01:15:50 ◼   ► without ever questioning them yeah you [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► get into this situation where you know [TS]

01:15:55 ◼   ► the like in Rome I hate to oh my god I'm [TS]

01:16:00 ◼   ► so going to cliche rule was as soon as [TS]

01:16:12 ◼   ► you stepped into Rome as a general or as [TS]

01:16:16 ◼   ► a as a Roman soldier you no longer were [TS]

01:16:21 ◼   ► in the Army in the city of Rome you were [TS]

01:16:26 ◼   ► a civilian you could not enter Rome as a [TS]

01:16:30 ◼   ► member of the army so the armies were [TS]

01:16:32 ◼   ► always outside of Rome [TS]

01:16:34 ◼   ► and the reason was that they were [TS]

01:16:38 ◼   ► worried obviously that or it was a way [TS]

01:16:40 ◼   ► of dealing with the fact that a that a [TS]

01:16:42 ◼   ► general could come back from it from a [TS]

01:16:44 ◼   ► triumphant battle and march into the [TS]

01:16:47 ◼   ► city and get himself elected the Caesar [TS]

01:16:52 ◼   ► in the in the in the frenzy of [TS]

01:16:56 ◼   ► outpouring of joy at the returning [TS]

01:17:00 ◼   ► conquering army so the army would return [TS]

01:17:03 ◼   ► and as soon as they walked in to town [TS]

01:17:05 ◼   ► they were civilians and it kept them you [TS]

01:17:12 ◼   ► know it kept them in check and it's not [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► that Roman generals didn't sometimes [TS]

01:17:17 ◼   ► ascend and a couple of notable times [TS]

01:17:19 ◼   ► marched in anyway but that was the that [TS]

01:17:23 ◼   ► was their mentality their way of church [TS]

01:17:26 ◼   ► and stating and we've kind of lost that [TS]

01:17:30 ◼   ► we've lost a crucial element of civilian [TS]

01:17:34 ◼   ► oversight [TS]

01:17:34 ◼   ► because our civilian our civilian like [TS]

01:17:42 ◼   ► branch of government has abdicated its [TS]

01:17:45 ◼   ► oversight responsibilities it's gotten [TS]

01:17:48 ◼   ► to enthrall you know there are too many [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► congressmen that are in thrall of the [TS]

01:17:53 ◼   ► military and there's too much money [TS]

01:17:54 ◼   ► floating around that they don't want to [TS]

01:17:56 ◼   ► miss out on mm-hmm [TS]

01:17:58 ◼   ► they all went to business school so [TS]

01:18:00 ◼   ► they're just looking for business [TS]

01:18:01 ◼   ► they're not they got no there's no [TS]

01:18:03 ◼   ► morality to it anymore [TS]

01:18:06 ◼   ► i-i-i jumped into an online conversation [TS]

01:18:10 ◼   ► and you might help me with this yeah [TS]

01:18:12 ◼   ► sure [TS]

01:18:12 ◼   ► hope anyway I can't there was I started [TS]

01:18:16 ◼   ► following a bunch of OPSEC people about [TS]

01:18:18 ◼   ► a year ago because I wanted out of the [TS]

01:18:20 ◼   ► of the thing where people were yelling [TS]

01:18:22 ◼   ► at each other yeah oh god I made a real [TS]

01:18:26 ◼   ► mistake oh my god it's like it's like [TS]

01:18:29 ◼   ► 4chan with a CS degree you are poem with [TS]

01:18:32 ◼   ► your intent black hat but at one point [TS]

01:18:37 ◼   ► somebody in the academic CS community [TS]

01:18:40 ◼   ► was sending out tweets to the people in [TS]

01:18:45 ◼   ► their community saying we're having [TS]

01:18:47 ◼   ► we're starting a group like a an online [TS]

01:18:52 ◼   ► pink group where we're discussing ethics [TS]

01:18:57 ◼   ► in CS and we're trying to get a second [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► computer science computer science okay [TS]

01:19:02 ◼   ► we're trying to get academics people [TS]

01:19:05 ◼   ► that are working in the field people [TS]

01:19:08 ◼   ► that are you know theoretical about it [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► we're trying to get everybody together [TS]

01:19:12 ◼   ► to talk about you know to build a [TS]

01:19:17 ◼   ► framework of talking about ethics in in [TS]

01:19:19 ◼   ► computer science and so you know this [TS]

01:19:24 ◼   ► was an open invitation on the part of an [TS]

01:19:27 ◼   ► organizer to kind of you know come in [TS]

01:19:28 ◼   ► present your CV explain who you are and [TS]

01:19:33 ◼   ► from the basis of that will you know [TS]

01:19:37 ◼   ► will include you in this conversation [TS]

01:19:38 ◼   ► and it was kind of you know it's like a [TS]

01:19:40 ◼   ► typical sort of like who are you how do [TS]

01:19:43 ◼   ► you rank and we're gonna we're going to [TS]

01:19:45 ◼   ► include you in this conversation [TS]

01:19:47 ◼   ► with priority if you teach at Stanford [TS]

01:19:50 ◼   ► versus if you're a 24 year old coder [TS]

01:19:53 ◼   ► right right which made sense but I wrote [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► him and said hi I am NOT in computer [TS]

01:19:59 ◼   ► science but I really want to be engaged [TS]

01:20:03 ◼   ► in the conversation around ethics in [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► computer science and I humbly submit [TS]

01:20:11 ◼   ► that you could have some civilian lay [TS]

01:20:15 ◼   ► people in this conversation because it [TS]

01:20:18 ◼   ► feels like you guys might get into a [TS]

01:20:21 ◼   ► little bit of a think bubble with one [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► another because some of the presumptions [TS]

01:20:26 ◼   ► that you're all operating from maybe are [TS]

01:20:29 ◼   ► the wellspring of some of these ethical [TS]

01:20:34 ◼   ► questions that you're struggling with [TS]

01:20:36 ◼   ► like maybe it's up maybe it's up above [TS]

01:20:40 ◼   ► some of your first presumptions or maybe [TS]

01:20:42 ◼   ► it's just a thing that you never looked [TS]

01:20:43 ◼   ► at this this way because you all think a [TS]

01:20:46 ◼   ► certain way but it seems like some lay [TS]

01:20:51 ◼   ► thinkers might have a have a place here [TS]

01:20:54 ◼   ► I mean in putting it it would be putting [TS]

01:20:57 ◼   ► it strongly to say you'd be the court [TS]

01:20:58 ◼   ► jester but you could be there to be a [TS]

01:21:00 ◼   ► smart person asking a question that [TS]

01:21:01 ◼   ► doesn't come up very often right which [TS]

01:21:03 ◼   ► sometimes might be a silly obvious [TS]

01:21:05 ◼   ► questions and other time it might be [TS]

01:21:06 ◼   ► thought-provoking and help them to [TS]

01:21:08 ◼   ► clarify their thinking on something by [TS]

01:21:10 ◼   ► having to explain it to Adam that's like [TS]

01:21:11 ◼   ► you that's right and and if you you know [TS]

01:21:15 ◼   ► if your explanation to a numbnuts is [TS]

01:21:17 ◼   ► well everybody knows what this is [TS]

01:21:19 ◼   ► and the numbnuts says that's not true [TS]

01:21:22 ◼   ► yeah you do maybe come at things from a [TS]

01:21:26 ◼   ► different from a different way you can't [TS]

01:21:28 ◼   ► talk about ethics in computer science [TS]

01:21:31 ◼   ► without recognizing that you're talking [TS]

01:21:35 ◼   ► about ethics and not computer science [TS]

01:21:38 ◼   ► because if you're talking about ethics [TS]

01:21:40 ◼   ► and computer science and you think [TS]

01:21:42 ◼   ► you're talking about computer science [TS]

01:21:43 ◼   ► then you're going to come to the same [TS]

01:21:45 ◼   ► conclusions you came to before if you're [TS]

01:21:48 ◼   ► talking about ethics you're talking on a [TS]

01:21:50 ◼   ► different discipline and computer [TS]

01:21:52 ◼   ► scientists aren't experts at it you're [TS]

01:21:55 ◼   ► there there's nothing to suggest that [TS]

01:21:57 ◼   ► being good at computers means that [TS]

01:21:59 ◼   ► you're also good at the [TS]

01:22:00 ◼   ► Effects of what computers can and are [TS]

01:22:03 ◼   ► doing that is a separate discipline [TS]

01:22:07 ◼   ► anyway he wrote back and said I agree [TS]

01:22:12 ◼   ► how like how we're not meeting in a [TS]

01:22:19 ◼   ► Convention Center and giving speeches [TS]

01:22:21 ◼   ► we're creating an online community of [TS]

01:22:23 ◼   ► people that are doing this work and [TS]

01:22:25 ◼   ► we're using you know in these short [TS]

01:22:30 ◼   ► burst conversations we're using all the [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► nomenclature of our field and we're just [TS]

01:22:36 ◼   ► bippity-boppity-boo pack and forth with [TS]

01:22:39 ◼   ► c++ talky-talk how are you going to [TS]

01:22:49 ◼   ► engage in that conversation with us and [TS]

01:22:53 ◼   ► I said I cannot I cannot engage that way [TS]

01:22:59 ◼   ► with you and if the if the ethical if [TS]

01:23:03 ◼   ► what you're doing is creating like an [TS]

01:23:04 ◼   ► online community where people are [TS]

01:23:06 ◼   ► bounding or bouncing ideas off of each [TS]

01:23:08 ◼   ► other there's no there isn't a place for [TS]

01:23:10 ◼   ► me to tell hop in because nobody wants [TS]

01:23:15 ◼   ► to sit and explain to a layperson [TS]

01:23:16 ◼   ► something that everybody else in the [TS]

01:23:18 ◼   ► room gets in 140 characters right but I [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► guess I'm just if you are someone who is [TS]

01:23:25 ◼   ► organizing this community if you're [TS]

01:23:28 ◼   ► impelled to do it [TS]

01:23:30 ◼   ► let me just plant that seed in your head [TS]

01:23:32 ◼   ► that add a certain point other people [TS]

01:23:37 ◼   ► need to be a people that are not in [TS]

01:23:41 ◼   ► computer science or people who are not [TS]

01:23:43 ◼   ► biologists need to be part of the [TS]

01:23:47 ◼   ► bioethics conversation or the computer [TS]

01:23:49 ◼   ► science ethics conversation and you guys [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► you know people in computer science need [TS]

01:23:57 ◼   ► to acknowledge that and not have it be a [TS]

01:24:01 ◼   ► thing where you present your paper and [TS]

01:24:03 ◼   ► then a bunch of people are butthurt [TS]

01:24:05 ◼   ► about it and you're like but we did [TS]

01:24:07 ◼   ► everything we try you know why are you [TS]

01:24:09 ◼   ► so mad at us like that because this is [TS]

01:24:12 ◼   ► what we're in and I'm [TS]

01:24:14 ◼   ► get angry letters but this is where we [TS]

01:24:15 ◼   ► are with drone warfare because the [TS]

01:24:18 ◼   ► people that were doing the ethics talk [TS]

01:24:21 ◼   ► we're also the people that were [TS]

01:24:22 ◼   ► procuring and flying those drones and [TS]

01:24:25 ◼   ► there wasn't anybody in the chain that [TS]

01:24:27 ◼   ► was like okay let's let's come up with a [TS]

01:24:30 ◼   ► let's come up with a order of engagement [TS]

01:24:35 ◼   ► here or like a like a let's come up with [TS]

01:24:37 ◼   ► a a way that this is gonna integrate [TS]

01:24:41 ◼   ► into our civilian laws and our civilian [TS]

01:24:46 ◼   ► morals the people that we're doing that [TS]

01:24:48 ◼   ► work were in the military and or were in [TS]

01:24:53 ◼   ► the Congress authorizing the military to [TS]

01:24:55 ◼   ► do what I want and I know they're you [TS]

01:24:58 ◼   ► know I they're they're people in the [TS]

01:25:00 ◼   ► military that I argue with about this [TS]

01:25:03 ◼   ► but it was never it was never put forth [TS]

01:25:06 ◼   ► that's like how there's no monroe [TS]

01:25:08 ◼   ► doctrine about it right in a way it [TS]

01:25:11 ◼   ► violates the monroe doctrine so i don't [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► know how to do that other than in places [TS]

01:25:17 ◼   ► like this right yeah i mean you and i [TS]

01:25:18 ◼   ► sit and talk and we do we traipse over [TS]

01:25:22 ◼   ► into computer science ethics and we we [TS]

01:25:24 ◼   ► bumble around and I knock a vase off a [TS]

01:25:26 ◼   ► shelf and you say some things that I [TS]

01:25:29 ◼   ► don't understand and then we bumble you [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► know we waltz over into the next room [TS]

01:25:33 ◼   ► and we we yell about business for a [TS]

01:25:37 ◼   ► while and you you talk into your shoe [TS]

01:25:40 ◼   ► but where else are those conversations [TS]

01:25:43 ◼   ► happening hmm I don't know I mean I can [TS]

01:25:48 ◼   ► only kind of argue this by analogy and I [TS]

01:25:50 ◼   ► guess we're like I feel like um cuz I [TS]

01:25:53 ◼   ► don't know anything about any of this [TS]

01:25:54 ◼   ► stuff but I do at least have a wreckin [TS]

01:25:56 ◼   ► like everybody I've got a wreckin you [TS]

01:25:58 ◼   ► know it just seems like there there are [TS]

01:26:00 ◼   ► there are situations where well first of [TS]

01:26:04 ◼   ► all let's take it as read that we're [TS]

01:26:05 ◼   ► looking when you're when you're talking [TS]

01:26:07 ◼   ► about any rapidly evolving an important [TS]

01:26:10 ◼   ► topic in public discourse it is very [TS]

01:26:12 ◼   ► useful to have a lot of Vestas an [TS]

01:26:14 ◼   ► England a lot of boffins you want a lot [TS]

01:26:16 ◼   ► of real smart people who understand the [TS]

01:26:18 ◼   ► history of the problem how we've tried [TS]

01:26:22 ◼   ► to address it in the past how much of [TS]

01:26:25 ◼   ► the way you've just in the past is [TS]

01:26:26 ◼   ► useful in the future [TS]

01:26:27 ◼   ► the kind of stuff that you would expect [TS]

01:26:29 ◼   ► I mean if you're gonna if you're gonna [TS]

01:26:30 ◼   ► have a stuff you're gonna have something [TS]

01:26:32 ◼   ► about about medicine across the United [TS]

01:26:36 ◼   ► States it's probably good to invite some [TS]

01:26:37 ◼   ► doctors like um that would never argue [TS]

01:26:39 ◼   ► against that in a million years but like [TS]

01:26:41 ◼   ► there is that dumb liberal arts part of [TS]

01:26:44 ◼   ► me that thinks that well you know it [TS]

01:26:45 ◼   ► would be nice to have some people who [TS]

01:26:46 ◼   ► are doctors slash something's as well [TS]

01:26:49 ◼   ► amoebans people who are not doctors but [TS]

01:26:52 ◼   ► others kind of slash people and because [TS]

01:26:54 ◼   ► you know i think i do feel like a group [TS]

01:26:58 ◼   ► think too strong a word but like i do [TS]

01:27:00 ◼   ► feel like there's this thing of like [TS]

01:27:01 ◼   ► well we're all smart people in this room [TS]

01:27:02 ◼   ► will understand this problem so let's [TS]

01:27:04 ◼   ► get to solving it when like some of the [TS]

01:27:06 ◼   ► most useful stuff that you can have for [TS]

01:27:08 ◼   ► input in an in kind of a group project [TS]

01:27:09 ◼   ► is people who have differing views on [TS]

01:27:11 ◼   ► how we frame the problem right how we [TS]

01:27:14 ◼   ► ask the right questions and i I think [TS]

01:27:18 ◼   ► that I think that there is a fetishism [TS]

01:27:20 ◼   ► for getting the right answer that [TS]

01:27:22 ◼   ► sometimes can skate right past whether [TS]

01:27:26 ◼   ► we ever ask the correct question about [TS]

01:27:28 ◼   ► this absolutely and that that's where I [TS]

01:27:30 ◼   ► think there's a role for people who are [TS]

01:27:31 ◼   ► lay people or nearly lay people is to be [TS]

01:27:34 ◼   ► able to like be the dummy in the room [TS]

01:27:36 ◼   ► maybe in some cases but like I look no [TS]

01:27:39 ◼   ► further than what we've been describing [TS]

01:27:41 ◼   ► for a lot of this episode which is oh [TS]

01:27:43 ◼   ► should I not have done that well why was [TS]

01:27:46 ◼   ► there no one there to say look you know [TS]

01:27:48 ◼   ► I may not be much smarter than the [TS]

01:27:51 ◼   ► average bear that but if you would ask [TS]

01:27:52 ◼   ► me about this and you described it [TS]

01:27:54 ◼   ► accurately what the scope of this change [TS]

01:27:57 ◼   ► to your system would do just as a [TS]

01:27:59 ◼   ► garden-variety user a dummy like me [TS]

01:28:03 ◼   ► could have told you that's a stupid [TS]

01:28:04 ◼   ► shitty idea that's gonna be costly to [TS]

01:28:07 ◼   ► your reputation it's gonna potentially [TS]

01:28:10 ◼   ► expose you to risks that were utterly [TS]

01:28:11 ◼   ► unnecessary for what you're trying to do [TS]

01:28:13 ◼   ► and here I'm talking about stuff like [TS]

01:28:14 ◼   ► these apps that do stuff like pull down [TS]

01:28:15 ◼   ► all your contacts for no great reason [TS]

01:28:17 ◼   ► like there's all kinds of risks to that [TS]

01:28:19 ◼   ► that somebody like me could have gone [TS]

01:28:20 ◼   ► did you did you kind of like just did [TS]

01:28:23 ◼   ► you kind of just you know sniff test [TS]

01:28:28 ◼   ► that with what everybody normal cuz [TS]

01:28:30 ◼   ► anybody normal would have gone oh that [TS]

01:28:32 ◼   ► that does not make me feel good help me [TS]

01:28:34 ◼   ► understand why that's the thing you need [TS]

01:28:35 ◼   ► to do without telling me about it you [TS]

01:28:38 ◼   ► know so I don't know I don't know if [TS]

01:28:40 ◼   ► that goes from medicine I don't know if [TS]

01:28:41 ◼   ► that [TS]

01:28:41 ◼   ► 4cs all the time but like you know [TS]

01:28:43 ◼   ► having somebody in there to ask a [TS]

01:28:46 ◼   ► perhaps illogical question not not just [TS]

01:28:50 ◼   ► for the purpose of being the smart guy [TS]

01:28:51 ◼   ► with the pipe who's disruptive but to be [TS]

01:28:53 ◼   ► able to to bring an outside voice and an [TS]

01:28:56 ◼   ► outside opinion to making sure that you [TS]

01:28:59 ◼   ► have provided a good answer to a [TS]

01:29:01 ◼   ► question that needed to be asked I think [TS]

01:29:03 ◼   ► it goes for I think it goes for [TS]

01:29:05 ◼   ► everything and the thing is that if you [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► run a North Face store and a guy with a [TS]

01:29:11 ◼   ► really long beard full of sticks and [TS]

01:29:13 ◼   ► twigs comes in and rants yeah for for 40 [TS]

01:29:19 ◼   ► minutes about your product you don't [TS]

01:29:24 ◼   ► forget it and you probably send a memo [TS]

01:29:27 ◼   ► to somebody but if enough people do it [TS]

01:29:31 ◼   ► you redesign your product and that's how [TS]

01:29:35 ◼   ► a business interacts with its customers [TS]

01:29:38 ◼   ► but online Facebook has too many [TS]

01:29:42 ◼   ► customers they get a million angry [TS]

01:29:46 ◼   ► emails a day from people saying this was [TS]

01:29:49 ◼   ► a shitty idea and the way you do that is [TS]

01:29:51 ◼   ► by managing the responses in a way to [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► seem polite and they seem like you're [TS]

01:29:56 ◼   ► like you're listening when actually [TS]

01:29:58 ◼   ► somebody it's closer in some ways to I [TS]

01:29:59 ◼   ► mean I've mentioned this in other places [TS]

01:30:01 ◼   ► before but this the gig economy [TS]

01:30:04 ◼   ► ride-sharing service that I use has [TS]

01:30:06 ◼   ► never has not only never gotten the [TS]

01:30:09 ◼   ► location of my office correct but [TS]

01:30:11 ◼   ► consistently gets it wrong in exactly [TS]

01:30:13 ◼   ► the same way mm-hmm and I haven't even [TS]

01:30:15 ◼   ► tried to address it because I got a [TS]

01:30:16 ◼   ► feeling I know what's gonna happen [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► what's gonna happen is what I'm trying [TS]

01:30:18 ◼   ► to say is I want to essentially file a [TS]

01:30:20 ◼   ► civilian bug to say there's something [TS]

01:30:22 ◼   ► with your system that gets the location [TS]

01:30:25 ◼   ► of my office wrong by a right turn and [TS]

01:30:28 ◼   ► over half a block every time it's [TS]

01:30:30 ◼   ► something repeatable it's a repeatable [TS]

01:30:32 ◼   ► bug but like if I do that it's just [TS]

01:30:34 ◼   ► gonna sound like I'm bitching and I'm [TS]

01:30:35 ◼   ► not bitching I'm trying to say like you [TS]

01:30:37 ◼   ► know this is this is I don't know if [TS]

01:30:38 ◼   ► this is indicative of anything bigger [TS]

01:30:40 ◼   ► but like maybe exploring that dumb [TS]

01:30:42 ◼   ► experience I've had four times now could [TS]

01:30:44 ◼   ► tell you something about your system but [TS]

01:30:46 ◼   ► now I'm already editing myself on that [TS]

01:30:48 ◼   ► because I don't want to be just some [TS]

01:30:49 ◼   ► dingaling when they say thank you you [TS]

01:30:50 ◼   ► know thank you very much for your input [TS]

01:30:51 ◼   ► we're always improving the service [TS]

01:30:53 ◼   ► here's your weekly update [TS]

01:30:54 ◼   ► exactly you're you are literally saying [TS]

01:30:56 ◼   ► let me help you make your product better [TS]

01:30:58 ◼   ► and there is no way to do it I mean I I [TS]

01:31:01 ◼   ► told you I think that I tried to call [TS]

01:31:03 ◼   ► snapchat on the phone about eight eight [TS]

01:31:08 ◼   ► months ago tell me more I want to hear [TS]

01:31:11 ◼   ► this I said listen I I just you know I'm [TS]

01:31:14 ◼   ► saying this to myself I'm saying it to [TS]

01:31:15 ◼   ► the air I have a simple question I just [TS]

01:31:17 ◼   ► need to talk to a certain person I've [TS]

01:31:19 ◼   ► looked online there doesn't appear to be [TS]

01:31:22 ◼   ► a way to reach that person and I just [TS]

01:31:24 ◼   ► need to ask an operator to put me [TS]

01:31:27 ◼   ► through to the person I need to talk to [TS]

01:31:28 ◼   ► you so question click let's have a [TS]

01:31:30 ◼   ► simple question for them yeah and I [TS]

01:31:32 ◼   ► called the phone number and that it was [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► snapchat phone number and it said hi [TS]

01:31:37 ◼   ► thanks for calling snapchat if you'd [TS]

01:31:39 ◼   ► like to talk to us just tweet us at [TS]

01:31:41 ◼   ► snapchat beep click and I was like the [TS]

01:31:49 ◼   ► kind of information that maybe you [TS]

01:31:52 ◼   ► wouldn't want to say publicly right what [TS]

01:31:53 ◼   ► if you've discovered a vulnerability [TS]

01:31:55 ◼   ► this happened my friends who work on a [TS]

01:31:57 ◼   ► password management app we're trying to [TS]

01:31:59 ◼   ► send get encryption in place to send a [TS]

01:32:02 ◼   ► critical zero-day exploit bug report to [TS]

01:32:06 ◼   ► a company and they're like hey thanks [TS]

01:32:07 ◼   ► for interest go sign up for our bug [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► bounty over here and like no you don't [TS]

01:32:10 ◼   ► understand the fucking red wire now like [TS]

01:32:14 ◼   ► yeah we need to go get in like a skiff [TS]

01:32:16 ◼   ► and talk about this thing that has been [TS]

01:32:18 ◼   ► a problem for weeks or months and you [TS]

01:32:20 ◼   ► didn't know about it like oh that's cool [TS]

01:32:21 ◼   ► thanks glad you're man here's a pin you [TS]

01:32:23 ◼   ► know right tweet us on Twitter and [TS]

01:32:30 ◼   ► that'll be a good thing for you well and [TS]

01:32:33 ◼   ► so and my thing wasn't like clipped the [TS]

01:32:35 ◼   ► red wire now but it was time sensitive [TS]

01:32:36 ◼   ► and it was real and it was solvable by a [TS]

01:32:41 ◼   ► person somewhere well I spent a couple [TS]

01:32:46 ◼   ► of weeks and not just trying everything [TS]

01:32:50 ◼   ► and I tried I mean I did all these like [TS]

01:32:52 ◼   ► go online and backward and look up phone [TS]

01:32:56 ◼   ► numbers and it was it was well I called [TS]

01:32:59 ◼   ► like it was like get human there's one [TS]

01:33:01 ◼   ► where you can go and find the secret [TS]

01:33:02 ◼   ► number from us places yeah I died I [TS]

01:33:04 ◼   ► tried that I tried called the [TS]

01:33:06 ◼   ► California business great Better [TS]

01:33:10 ◼   ► Business Bureau all these different [TS]

01:33:11 ◼   ► things and everything every phone number [TS]

01:33:14 ◼   ► I got funneled me back to that couch at [TS]

01:33:20 ◼   ► the and I could not and so I I tweeted [TS]

01:33:29 ◼   ► and said hi I'd like to talk to someone [TS]

01:33:34 ◼   ► can you contact me and then they wrote [TS]

01:33:40 ◼   ► back two days later and were like yeah [TS]

01:33:41 ◼   ► follow us and we'll DM and I followed [TS]

01:33:45 ◼   ► them and they said hey and I said hey I [TS]

01:33:49 ◼   ► have a question about this and they were [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► like oh and I swear to you they said [TS]

01:33:54 ◼   ► call this number right and the number [TS]

01:33:56 ◼   ► was like just tweet us at like it was a [TS]

01:33:59 ◼   ► it was an ultimate there was no way [TS]

01:34:04 ◼   ► through and it was intentional it was I [TS]

01:34:08 ◼   ► mean like that is a word I reserved for [TS]

01:34:10 ◼   ► special occasions it's somewhat Kafka [TS]

01:34:12 ◼   ► esque where it's difficult to understand [TS]

01:34:15 ◼   ► why this is happening and there's some [TS]

01:34:17 ◼   ► level of recursion and repetition where [TS]

01:34:19 ◼   ► like you're in the castle [TS]

01:34:20 ◼   ► what's crazy about science fiction is [TS]

01:34:23 ◼   ► that it that it gets so many things [TS]

01:34:25 ◼   ► right but it often gets things really [TS]

01:34:27 ◼   ► wrong and that was what was so amazing [TS]

01:34:29 ◼   ► about Star Wars or Blade Runner where [TS]

01:34:31 ◼   ► they were the first science fiction [TS]

01:34:33 ◼   ► films that made things look dirty right [TS]

01:34:35 ◼   ► and we were like wow that looks so real [TS]

01:34:37 ◼   ► what Kafka missed he was so right but [TS]

01:34:43 ◼   ► what he missed was that there would be a [TS]

01:34:44 ◼   ► giant yellow smiley face on everything [TS]

01:34:46 ◼   ► great but it wasn't but but it's also [TS]

01:34:49 ◼   ► not clean right you want to think like [TS]

01:34:51 ◼   ► all those science fiction movies were [TS]

01:34:53 ◼   ► there giant giant smiley places on [TS]

01:34:55 ◼   ► everything it's at least clean yeah but [TS]

01:34:57 ◼   ► this is both dirty and smiley face II [TS]

01:35:00 ◼   ► and every interaction I had with [TS]

01:35:03 ◼   ► snapchat was just like hi oh my god [TS]

01:35:06 ◼   ► thank you hey tweet us and it's like [TS]

01:35:12 ◼   ► look I'm not 14 I don't have a question [TS]

01:35:15 ◼   ► about like my boyfriend took a booby [TS]

01:35:17 ◼   ► picture of me and if I did I wouldn't [TS]

01:35:19 ◼   ► want [TS]

01:35:20 ◼   ► tweet you right but I have like a [TS]

01:35:22 ◼   ► grown-up question I want to speak to one [TS]

01:35:24 ◼   ► grown-up anyway eventually and I don't [TS]

01:35:26 ◼   ► even remember how I did it [TS]

01:35:28 ◼   ► I got a phone call from a live person [TS]

01:35:32 ◼   ► there Wow and I don't remember what I [TS]

01:35:36 ◼   ► think it was through their Twitter [TS]

01:35:37 ◼   ► account I said look I want somebody to [TS]

01:35:39 ◼   ► talk to me about I want an adult and and [TS]

01:35:45 ◼   ► it came out of the blue I was not [TS]

01:35:47 ◼   ► expecting it I got a phone call and it [TS]

01:35:49 ◼   ► was a kid who was who said hey hi this [TS]

01:35:53 ◼   ► is Jeremy at snapchat here's my question [TS]

01:36:02 ◼   ► he was like yeah well um hang on let me [TS]

01:36:09 ◼   ► let me call you back [TS]

01:36:11 ◼   ► and then he called me back two minutes [TS]

01:36:14 ◼   ► later and said sure here's the here it [TS]

01:36:18 ◼   ► is here's the number should be arriving [TS]

01:36:20 ◼   ► in the mail it's coming to you now [TS]

01:36:23 ◼   ► anything else and I was like wow yeah [TS]

01:36:26 ◼   ► just one other thing I took me a month [TS]

01:36:29 ◼   ► to get to the point where I could have [TS]

01:36:32 ◼   ► this two-minute conversation where you [TS]

01:36:33 ◼   ► totally solved my problem Wow why did it [TS]

01:36:37 ◼   ► take a month because it's a because to [TS]

01:36:40 ◼   ► me it feels like this conversation took [TS]

01:36:42 ◼   ► a month but it didn't it just took two [TS]

01:36:43 ◼   ► minutes right and I knew it was I knew [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► it was a two-minute conversation and I'm [TS]

01:36:47 ◼   ► grateful for your help [TS]

01:36:49 ◼   ► you've done more than I imagined can you [TS]

01:36:52 ◼   ► fucking make that a little bit easier [TS]

01:36:54 ◼   ► for people he's like pop well I'm just [TS]

01:36:57 ◼   ► on the solution team yeah I know you are [TS]

01:37:07 ◼   ► how a good fish taco to dance port [TS]

01:37:11 ◼   ► Jeremy or Jeremy [TS]

01:37:14 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

01:37:17 ◼   ► Hey [TS]

01:37:19 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

01:37:19 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► hi John hi Merlin how's it going good [TS]

00:00:09 ◼   ► how are you young very well that's good [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► so early I do I just got a phone call [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► from local public radio station and they [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► wanted to know if I would come on a [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► panel today to talk about whether or not [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► amazon.com new bubbles that they built [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► in Seattle are gonna be an icon like the [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► Space Needle you might need to bring me [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► up to speed here I am not totally up to [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► date on the what are you the Emerald [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► City what do you call Jetson now well we [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► were the Jet City that was a very cool [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► name yeah and and I think an organic [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► name Jet City Jet City once we got a [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► fight yeah we made the Jets yeah yep yep [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► yep and then once you're always Emerald [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► City is that is that that is that organ [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► no Emerald City is something it's a [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► nickname that came about as the result [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► of a like one of those let's take [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► suggestions from the audience [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► title now things where they're like hey [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► what should we call our city and people [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► I think we're like we're out we already [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► have a name Jet City and they were oh [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► let's call it Emerald City and it's like [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► who said that you know hey you in the [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► back stand up whoo why did you say that [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► they're like I don't work for a [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► publicity firm don't mind me at the name [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► of the odds place yeah oh that's not [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► good yeah giant Seattle biospheres yeah [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► Oh God and are people gonna live in them [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► or they just oh they just green houses [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► don't I say just green houses I new to [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► this so so I yeah a few years ago I was [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► I was downtown I had a I have a friend [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► that works at an architecture firm and [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► he was he invited he invited us to come [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► by and see the see what's going on and [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► they're a big big company that are [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► making big big things [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► and one of the things that have they had [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► on their drawing board were these giant [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► very organic looking spheres and I was [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► intrigued because they were pretty [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► cool-looking on the on the design table [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► and he said yeah Amazon wants us to [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► build these but like in the center of [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► downtown and I thought that'll never [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► happen first of all but wouldn't that be [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► cool if you built like a big thing like [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► that like a public space business yeah [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► look like I mean looks like if you've [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► seen the Polish or movie biosphere [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► they're big round and they they have a [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► kind of a who's the guy with the who's [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► the guy with the geodesic domes the guy [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► show about him you know that one guy [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► with the name it's HR guy culture it's [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► like the HR HR Pufnstuf HR snuffleupagus [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► these are the appear to be three [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► tripartite of three big interconnected [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► bubbles with what looks like green trees [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► inside and they look pretty big right [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► they're super big and they are [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► Buckminster Fuller oh that's it Bucky [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► Bucky balls yeah they're there and [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► they're built unlike bucky balls which [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► are built with regular sort of [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► triangular components these are made [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► with very organic like the type of the [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► type of shapes that you'd see inside of [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► an actual but like a soap bubble or [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► something swirling they kind of feel [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► like to serve irregular patterns it [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► isn't like I'm just seeing a bunch of [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► triangles right and I hate to keep [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► referencing the movie avatar but it [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► feels like something the movie Avatar [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► yes yes yeah so anyway I was and then [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► they started building him and I was like [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► I never expected that they would [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► actually go through with this very [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► ambitious idea to build these orbs in [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► the center of town and what a what a [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► bold move for a company that I think of [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► as being pretty culturally conservative [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► within themselves [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► you know Amazon is not [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► very has not typically been like we love [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► everybody they're much more like their [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► typical tech company that hides behind [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► security keys and everything you know [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► it's like harder to get into to [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► amazon.com or to Microsoft in downtown [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► Seattle it's harder to get in than it is [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► to get into the White House you know the [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► there's so many different levels of [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► security and it's like security I mean [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► what do you guys got in there like like [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► gold bars what are you so scared of but [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► but they they started building when they [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► built them for a long time and they [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► screwed up traffic in both directions [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► downtown for ever and they built two big [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► office towers on either side which are [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► also interesting architectural II [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► interesting but then as they got closer [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► to opening these bubbles they were like [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► oh we were never gonna let any one go in [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► them [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► oh no Snorks allowed right oh no these [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► are just for us oh boy it seems like [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► that's kind of thing you wanna mention [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► yeah well but even I mean they didn't [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► mention it because they never considered [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► that it would be something to the public [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► and so here you have this this like [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► basically yeah Space Station Earth I'm [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► seeing like a anytime you look at the [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► right thing here it looks like a like a [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► side what do you call that it that's so [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► early it looks like a slice the edge off [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► you show from the side one like yeah [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► yeah yeah I mean like we need to show [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► the fantastic for building one or two [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► three four five stories yeah okay [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► anything you got about ten feet in the [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► story plus you got a little bit of [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► overhead so these things are probably [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► like at least like what 80 100 feet tall [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► they're big they're big and they take up [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► the space between of a block well and [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► they've already on either side they have [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► big office towers so the whole thing is [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► a is you know it's a whole city block [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► for this campus [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► and they've done you know they they put [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► these buildings in they hired 10,000 [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► people and on the ground floor of their [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► buildings they have a fat belly sandwich [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► shop and a Thai restaurant and a cool [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► burger place that puts lavender on their [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► burgers and you know all this stuff and [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► if you have a key card I'm sure you can [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► go in and just charge your food but the [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► campus did not it you know it's not [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► built there are so many different eras [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► of like downtown architecture fashion [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► and we've both lived in cities San [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► Francisco is a real example of this [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► where a building gets built and it has a [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► very kind of open unfriendly sun-baked [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► Plaza with some cements in there that [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► you could suppose I guess maybe sit on a [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► shake I mean no it's just it doesn't [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► want to go away it's really tough and [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► and that was the I that was an idea that [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► was supposed to be that was supposed to [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► engage people you know these big plazas [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► and it just they didn't think through [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► how actual people want to be this campus [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► really I mean those bubbles really draw [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► you you you you come to them and you [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► look at them and you're like I want to [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► what is the first thought you have I [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► want to go in mm-hmm because there's [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► there's trees in there it looks like it [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► Scott probably it's playing like tubular [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► bells or music for airports like all [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► right it's it's like the future I want [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► to go in and then you get the kinda like [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► giant Christmas ornaments like they're [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► very I mean have to say they're I don't [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► mean this is too much of a compliment [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► but they're very attractive as you say [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► like if you saw is Hugo what is that and [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► how do I get inside yeah how do I get [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► inside and you know the other public [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► buildings that have a similar effect in [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► Seattle are the downtown library which [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► was just look for that right now [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► oh it's modern [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► but it's like somebody got tired of [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► folding a box it's really i keep since [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► the day it was opened i described it as [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► a spaceport on a minor planet it's just [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► like oh that's it huh I mean that there [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► are buses that used to be pretty popular [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► yeah it was like a mining planet like [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► six millenia ago and that's the space [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► board and it's a typical of contemporary [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► architecture like at some point not that [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► long after it opened the escalator [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► stopped working then pretty soon there's [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► somebody there with some scaffolding and [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► a sign that says no access trying to fix [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► it but they're not working that hard and [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► then the other example is the EMP which [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► was you know which was a again a folly [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► of a rich person and and and when you [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► saw it on the drawing board you were [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► like wow we're gonna get a Frank Giri [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► right in the middle of town and Frank [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► Gehry designed it but because Paul Allen [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► owned it Paul Allen got involved and was [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► like I know that you built this that you [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► designed this to be all silver but what [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► if it was red white and blue and green [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► and yellow and Frank Gehry was like well [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► no I don't I don't want that that's not [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► what I am building and Paul Allen was [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► like yeah but don't you think that [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► colors would make people like it more [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► kind of psychedelic huh [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► and Frank Gehry was like no I don't [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► think that and then Paul Allen said and [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► we're gonna need some meeting rooms in [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► there like square boxes with chairs big [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► big long chair rooms and Frankie was [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► like that's not what what I was building [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► and then he said and then you know on [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► the outside there should be some some [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► things where we can put posters that [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► like advertise upcoming shows and so if [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► you go to Frank Gehry's website I guess [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► he's got a website but if you look at [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► stop hearing Hervey let's say he does [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► not acknowledge the EMP he washed his [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► hands he's like I did well and more on [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► it he doesn't make any money from the [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► probably oh yeah he's like take my name [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► off of the credit mm-hmm [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► no I'm sure he took the money yeah but [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► but but what Paul Ellen did was he he he [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► got this here he got this thing built [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► but it was but he needed it to be [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► something that wasn't that you know but [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► he was thinking in terms of the big like [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► key card buildings in the suburbs that [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► he came up in it sounds like a fairly [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► classic design problem or an [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► anti-pattern in design which is you know [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► I it's probably easy to overstate this [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► but one problem for people who are [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► outside of design and don't approach it [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► from a certain point of view is to think [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► that it's really it's it's a coat of [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► paint it's wrapping it's maybe you know [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► branding but you haven't really thought [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► about how the space is going to be used [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► and so when you that is revealed when [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► somebody says stuff like yeah yeah so [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► basically what we want to we want a [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► fancy building the cool people will like [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► but we want the inside to be pretty [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► pedestrian and we want to put posters [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► outside mm-hmm and and we should you [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► know and it when you look in from [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► outside like so that's what they did [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► with these amazon bubbles if you look in [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► from outside you see oh inside these [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► incredibly organic structures there are [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► wisely them all white walls right [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► squared off with no windows and doors [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► and inside I'm sure there are like AV [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► equipment and PowerPoint stuff and ports [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► and I'm sure there's a folding table out [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► front where you get your lanyard and it [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► they just built a convention center that [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► no one is allowed in and and so that you [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► know the idea that you would build [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► something like that and then not let [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► people come is is an example of the kind [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► of like the kind of tech tone-deafness [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► that goes with this this new idea in in [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► big companies that you're going to [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► locate your campus in the center of [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► downtown and that's gonna be appealing [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► to employees because they're they're not [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► going to be out at some suburban campus [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► they're gonna be right in the heart of [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► the action and Seattle is a cool city [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► mountain [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► there and get your coffee and people and [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► you know I'm sure in their in their [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► brochures when they're trying to attract [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► the prospective employees there's like a [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► picture of a girl with pink hair and [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► there's somebody throwing the fish at [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► the market and they're like come to [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► Seattle don't you know don't move out to [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► Mountain View California right but what [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► the city what the company isn't doing is [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► repaying the city for all that cool [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► culture that they're using to attract [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► employees by adding anything back [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► they're just like yeah come to Seattle [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► and we'll just we'll just really I mean [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► I stating facts are these really [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► actually this is actually true they [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► actually are not gonna have like a lot [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► of this is a place that somebody's it [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► was kind of pitched as a public project [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► but it's actually not going to be such a [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► public project is that true I I do not [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► believe it was ever pitched as a public [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► project I think it's a tale in here are [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► they've got that means that retail only [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► frame is long people but boy I don't [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► know about that I my sense of it is they [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► stop you at the door and if you want to [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► arrange a tour a small number of people [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► per year I guess like civic leaders I'm [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► sure I'll get a tour right I'm sure that [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► I'm at some point someone will say hey [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► we're going to the get an Amazon thing [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► you want to come and it's gonna be [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► because it's specific leader but like [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► your regular person who came here from [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► st. Louis to spend a week in Seattle [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► because they've always wanted to [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► whoo-hoo were like yeah we should go [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► look at the Amazon orbs and they walk [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► down there and you look at them and then [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► you walk over to the door and you're [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► like can we get in and no and then you [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► pull your camera out and then somebody [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► with a earpiece is like no pictures I [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► mean you know that I'm exaggerating that [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► but but that's about it [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► right that's a family look so hard a [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► part of it is deliberately open belting [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► a good sign this is a headline from a [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► week ago today is that there will be a [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► visitor center and mics [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► it's places that have a visitor center [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► are not open to everybody right you can [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► get tours you can get like a full [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► 90-minute Amazon HQ tour you go to oh [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► their visitor centers called the [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► understory [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► no Discovery exhibit yeah okay it's [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► gonna have 300 endangered plant species [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► in it but it says you know there's a [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► there's an article in geek wire in a [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► couple of years Amazon employees Amazon [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► employees will be able to walk on a [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► suspension bridge over a forest land and [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► settle into a nest perched within a [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► mature tree for a brainstorming session [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► and it's just like like three-quarters [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► of that sentence is really appealing but [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► what it really is saying is Amazon [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► employees are gonna have brainstorming [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► sessions in this place and Amazon [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► employees you know like and and the [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► brainstorming session is probably gonna [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► happen you know within for like inside [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► an organic skiffs no I don't think so [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► I think they're their meeting rooms [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► inside oh geez maybe you can go sit in a [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► hammock but you know my experience of oh [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► I went and toured the medium offices a [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► couple of times huh and they had they [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► had a bunch of sleeping cubbies have you [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► been there [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► no there were like little pods like [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► built into the wall and and they had [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► curtains on them and you could pull the [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► curtains back inside there was like not [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► just a mattress it was like a Japanese [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► hotel room how often do they clean him I [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► well so I didn't ask that my first [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► question was how often do people go in [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► and you can take naps in here what is [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► what is the highest level inside the [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► organization of someone who uses this at [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► least weekly and the answer was no one [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► has ever used these to take a nap [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► because if you went in and took a nap [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► yeah you would be looked at like someone [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► who was trying to take a nap during the [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► work day you could probably you could [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► probably smoke weed in the office and [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► get less kickback then if you went and [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► slept took a nap during work but there [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► are the facilities there for six people [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► to be sleeping simultaneously [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► and I said do people ever like go in [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► here and fucking the eat at night uh-huh [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► it's like no no no one ever goes in [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► there why would you go in there it's [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► creepy it's like you know I don't know [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► how and probably they're cleaned every [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► day probably they have a dedicated [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► cleaning person to clean them but as far [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► as I could tell pulling the employees of [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► medium no one had ever gone in those [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► pots and I was like if I worked at [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► medium I would be in that pot ever I [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► would work from there [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► oh absolutely and the bring an iPad and [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► recline are they yeah I'd be in there [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► the reply was well you wouldn't work a [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► medium for that for long T and so tell [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► me yeah right I mean you could go down [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► to Amazon orbs and sit around and have [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► brainstorming sessions but to really [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► like sit in sit in a hammock and watch [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► the endangered butterflies fly around [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► you have to be a vice president or [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► higher anyway it's so it's so it's like [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► this it's an incredible missed [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► opportunity that is that from from [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► inside their their hive mind I'm sure [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► they're because because you can already [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► feel it this was this radio show was [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► about like Amazon wants this to be a [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► tourist destination they thought of they [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► were thinking that when they built it [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► like we want people to come see this we [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► want people to wear t-shirts and to be [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► like oh Seattle that you mean the Orab [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► City you know they had that in mind but [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► but they couldn't they didn't make the [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► leap to think if we're gonna build this [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► it's gonna be an incredibly attractive [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► nuisance to everyone like okay so it's [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► got these endangered species you can't [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► just open it up to everybody to just [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► come through like a like a mall but you [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► gotta have a way to pay $15 at least to [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► go in and and and sit around I mean you [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► know the Space Needle is not free right [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► but there you pay money and you go in it [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► something you know some way for the city [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► to access it and whatever the retail is [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► I'm sure that it's a I'm sure that it's [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► like fifty square feet on an understory [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► that's selling you t-shirts that have [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► the orbs on [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► you know there's no like that's not [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► there's not gonna be a Fendi store in it [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► well I thank God for that [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► yeah I'm looking at images here of the [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► blight of my own city which is this [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► Salesforce tower you seen that you mean [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► the largest tower in San Francisco is [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► visible from every Japan town that's [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► what they say oh shit it's the [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► salesforce.com Tower it's like if if [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► Darth Vader made a water rocket I was [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► like not like this style of architecture [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► personally it looks good in London but I [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► don't know if it's so much here Utama [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► orbs well no i'm talking here about the [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► tower but i guess my question is this is [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► all brand new to me i've known about [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► this for now for 20 minutes and 30 [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► seconds are you opposed to the bubbles [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► differently than you would be for [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► another kind of building that was mostly [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► not meant to be public like you don't [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► have this do you have the same feeling [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► about the towers that are astride the [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► bubbles as you do about the bubbles [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► themselves do you think he gets a lot of [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► different bill of goods here well I do [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► think that if if Amazon wants to like [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► the the libertarianism that is at the [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► heart of the way that that company [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► interacts with Seattle suggests that [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► they don't owe us anything right they [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► built their company from the ground up [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► they built it they brought good clean [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► jobs to town [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► yeah they built it themselves and their [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► only obligation to us is that they're [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► bringing young people and they're paying [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► them a lot of money and those people [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► increased our tax base and whether or [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► not they created a traffic fuckup and [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► whether or not this like the sewers and [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► infrastructure in downtown is built were [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► built to accommodate 50,000 new people [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► who are all flushing their toilets at [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► the same time whether or not any of [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► those things any of those larger [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► questions of how we interact with each [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► other like they will do the minimum to [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► be in compliance [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► but they don't think of them they don't [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► think of themselves as integrated [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► they're their thing they built it the [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► money belongs to them and they bought [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► that land and they can do what they want [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► with it [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► and if Bezos wanted to erect a glass [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► penis 80 stories tall he wouldn't be the [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► first rich guy to build a glass penis in [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► downtown Seattle there literally is a [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► building that looks like a penis and [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► downtown's it's a green penis which is [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► the which is a bad color for a penis [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► that's what most farm fresh peas are [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► full of green penis I'm not a doctor if [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► your penis is green it may be a side [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► effect yeah but but so so the [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► combination of like like ego and hubris [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► that would allow a company to say we're [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► doing this in the center of your city we [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► have the right to do it because we get [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► to do whatever we want because money [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► we're not obligated to you in any way [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► shape or form to make it I mean we have [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► to make it accessible because that's the [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► code we have to make it like you have to [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► be able to walk through it but we have [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► no further obligation to make it to have [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► it interact with you at all if you don't [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► have a lanyard you know you're barely [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► welcome at the fat belly sandwich shop [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► which is ostensibly open to the public [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► because they don't have a capacity to [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► use their cash registers don't don't [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► accept money or whatever but at the same [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► time they want to be loved [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► and that's the thing that that's the [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► cognitive disconnect they don't [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► understand why people are mad at them [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► they feel hurt and put upon when people [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► complain well I'm also like this seems [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► like there's this kind of cereal like um [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► this feeling of being oh we're so you [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► know we're so misunderstood yeah yeah [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► you guys you guys describe all of this [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► evilness to us that is not only not [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► factual but it's just just unfair and [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► like we take such a beating from the [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► public you know especially given all the [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► good that we're doing yeah look at all [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► this stuff we've done look at what we've [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► done for you but you know this time an [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► aggrieved ad thing [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► it's an aggrieved ad yeah and when you [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► think about it like all right well you [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► just you know you've got 50,000 people [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► now that you brought into town nobody [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► can move you didn't think of that [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► because that's not your problem because [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► as soon as they leave the door of your [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► building it's not your problem anymore [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► yeah but it is your problem where it's [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► our problem and I mean I I'm definitely [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► the idea that they sell they sell [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► working in Seattle as a big part of [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► their compensation package because it's [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► the old argument they used to make to us [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► and rock and roll like oh you know [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► you're so lucky you get to play rock and [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► roll and it's like oh man it's my job [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► I'd like to also get money but part of [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► the money has got to be just but I'll [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► say yeah I mean it is and I'm saying [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► fairness but like you know Silicon [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► Valley San Francisco superscooper costly [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► even if you're making pretty good dough [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► New York City you know tough to get an [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► apartment that's bigger than a closet [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► you could have a quality of life in [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► Seattle with a similar kind of job with [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► a big growing company that's you your [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► quality of life is gonna be higher than [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► it would be if you're living in some [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► kind of a hovel in Mountain View oh [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► absolutely I mean the the argument that [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► they're making is not wrong my my [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► argument is that is taking like you're [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► sucking from the city but you're sucking [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► thing from the city that nobody owns [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► like you can't pay anybody for the cool [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► artists that are loafing around you're [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► certainly not going to pay them for [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► their art but you you're you don't feel [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► a responsibility to you're bringing your [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► people in who don't have culture right [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► there 24 and they have computer science [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► degrees and they don't know and they [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► live in an apartment with nothing on the [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► wall like they like having access to [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► like good saw and like that yeah they [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► like you good they look good good [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► restaurants they like to go to you know [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► they're learning to go to shows that's [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► wonderful I mean Seattle will [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► enculturate the people that work here [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► because they will if they if they allow [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► themselves [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► I'm sure Amazon has programs where it's [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► like hey come to a show with us or you [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► know like like after work groups of [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► people that go do things how you see it [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► you see them you see a group of people [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► show up at a thing and you're like oh [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► look it's a bunch of young Amazon people [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► all in a herd with one another like and [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► that is the process of the culture how [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► the culture of a city works but what [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► they don't acknowledge is that that has [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► a cost on the people that are already [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► living in the city who are making the [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► thing that they're that they're selling [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► which is like an intact culture where [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► there's a music scene and where there [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► are you know there's room for artists [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► that don't have a lot of money to live [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► this is the thing about San Francisco [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► that when I'm down there and talking to [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► musicians I did this show while I was [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► there last week where we covered the [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► music of a couple of Wes Anderson films [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► Rushmore and Royal Tenenbaums and it was [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► you know they were probably 30 to 40 [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► musicians and most of them were either [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► old San Francisco people like the flamin [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► Groovy's were there Wow and who did [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► these days what would you do I ended up [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► doing Judy as a punk and I did a song [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► yeah which was super fun and I did [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► the Rolling Stones tune [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► I am waiting mm-hmm which is not one of [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► their greatest tunes but but the band [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► behind me was really great and Kelly [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► Stoltz was there who's a friend of mine [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► Stoltz I know that name can we stole to [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► the San Francisco in her though Kelly [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► Stoltz was mobbed up with that the kind [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► of like the Oringer kind of groups yeah [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► yeah yeah yeah okay yeah he's a great [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► musician and he hilariously covered the [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► the echo and the Bunnymen to the seminal [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► whichever one of their records people [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► consider seminal he covered that record [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► in its entirety early last year they [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► heard it and came to him and said we [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► need a rhythm guitar player oh shut up [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► you already know all the songs he's in [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► the bunny was a Russian train the record [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► I guess it must have been I'm not I'm [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► not [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► it's not that I'm against them my face [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► among them kissing the tour toys show [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► it's good ass good s record I bet it is [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► mm-hm sounds like The Killers but but so [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► Kelly is in the echo and the Bunnymen [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► and he's out there you know those guys [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► are they're very old and crusty last [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► time I saw him when he's okay did I [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► didn't tell you the story I open no I [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► opened for them oh yeah okay and he came [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► off the stage he was you know III tried [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► to interact with them a couple of times [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► and he very definitely was like boy I [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► wanted Beauregard atarid are like [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► completely unintelligible and I think he [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► knows that he is and he talks throughout [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► the show into the microphone dark hair [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► no bugger [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► I was loving it but he got off the stand [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► I'm standing by the backstage stairs he [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► gets up the stage people are like yeah [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► somebody throws a towel around his [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► shoulders and then there's an EMT a [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► medic standing there he comes down the [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► stairs and the medic hands him an oxygen [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► mask somebody do that from me and he [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► takes like four big drafts of this like [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► just just big big lungfuls of pure [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► oxygen and then he's like locked by a [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► very rare and off you want what lights a [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► cigarette and walks off and I and then [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► the EMT is packing up his stuff and I'm [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► like hey is that a real thing [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► and the guy's like no no that's not [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► gonna do anything for you but he wanted [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► it and I was here and had oxygen and [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► they hate whatever the extra hundred [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► fifty dollars is and he said like I [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► think it's just kind of a like boosts I [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► mean like a maybe get a little head rush [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► but I think it's more like you feel like [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► I got off stage and got some pure oxygen [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► I don't think and then he's kind of like [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► me which I thought was cute and funny I [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► was founded eight years after the [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► Beatles broke up and the time from [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► forming echo and the Bunnymen until now [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► is 40 years so that feels pretty good [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► did you read the thing that as of a [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► couple of days ago the Berlin Wall has [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► been down longer than it was up I reject [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► that that's very great that's very [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► troubling to me this is that night oh my [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► goodness we've had an entire Cold War [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► and all we've been doing is yelling [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► about sleeping pods in San Francisco [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► that Salesforce tower that's handsome so [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► you have you been in it doesn't shower [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► allow you to go Eva and I rock behind [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► avoid downtown these days [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► but yeah I don't know you know it's the [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► other part of its that's weird again I'm [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► just I'm just I'm not reading anything [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► much while we're talking I'm going about [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► what you're saying but it what you're [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► describing also the let's say the [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► obvious thing it's it is what what some [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► of these companies do is weird and at [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► the least tone-deaf but also they're [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► like this kind of shocked surprised that [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► people don't like what they're doing [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► once they're kind of clocked doing what [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► they're doing you know like whether that [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► stuff with your data or you know stuff [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► with your other data or building a [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► bubble there's this whole sense of like [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► oh what do you mean like we're just [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► we're just making tech techniques like [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► why you guys getting all mad at us like [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► like the fact that like you know I [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► didn't realize we had to like ask [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► permission to make your city good look [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► at us making you're making your stupid [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► fucking town into a destination for the [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► most desirable men in America like Wow [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► how dare you get mad do we put some [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► ferns in a pot downtown oh man there [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► wasn't a Jimmy John's downtown before [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► and now there is one song right yeah so [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► thank you you know I mean it's I guess [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► you could overstate this but like you [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► know it's kind of got the meme of like [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► oh you know should I not have done that [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► where it's like oh that thing we're like [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► you this app downloads your entire [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► contact list and uploads it to the clewd [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► supposed to do that makes people [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► frustrated that we now collate all that [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► data against these perma cookies from [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► facebook is that weird that is that bad [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► and you're like yeah man that are bad [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► like you know if you not only should you [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► have asked about that but you shouldn't [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► have done it you shouldn't have done it [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► and needed to ask but doing it and not [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► asking is mega gross I don't know if [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► this has happened to you oh you don't [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► have a Facebook account or ever go on [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► there I have a deactivated Facebook [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► account that I have to use sometimes to [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► log into something but I don't post [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► there or read there right [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► and now so I try not to talk about it [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► but if you ask I will tell you I think [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► III I am one of the OGS at knowing that [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► place is a fucking garbage fire your [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► welcome it in my case I yeah but what [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► what what happened the other day was I I [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► got a DM last time I heard about you [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► getting a DM it was that you hadn't [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► gotten somebody free tickets for a show [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► fast enough [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► uh-huh that's the last one I remember [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► cuz that's where you go you go to [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► Facebook and you go past for somebody [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► that they hadn't given you a free thing [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► fast and I get the MS people give me the [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► MS and and I don't I don't mind him I'll [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► take you DM sure um you know don't do it [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► all the time I don't want I don't want [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► to hear about things I don't want to [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► hear about but if you've got something [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► you want to tell me it is literally [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► something private you know there you go [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► I mean it isn't private that you're [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► showing me your pictures your family cuz [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► I don't know you yeah that's not a thing [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► that needed to be private but but if you [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► have a question or you want to talk to [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► me yeah [TS]