The Incomparable

132: Kind of Like a Dinosaur


00:00:03   the incomparable number 132 Morris 2030 [TS]

00:00:11   don't make me angry you wouldn't like me [TS]

00:00:13   when I'm angry [TS]

00:00:14   this is the incomparable podcast I'm [TS]

00:00:16   Jason smell your host i have not been [TS]

00:00:18   bombarded with gamma radiation this is [TS]

00:00:21   an episode of the comic book club and [TS]

00:00:24   joining me as usual for the comic book [TS]

00:00:28   club our charter comic book club members [TS]

00:00:31   Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

00:00:33   good evening everybody and Jason [TS]

00:00:36   brightman hi Jason [TS]

00:00:37   hey now this was your idea to talk about [TS]

00:00:40   the way I've been describing this is the [TS]

00:00:43   many Hulk's that I have known how the [TS]

00:00:45   whole the whole could put more more than [TS]

00:00:47   that the kind of like other bulky things [TS]

00:00:50   including the she-hulk so why don't you [TS]

00:00:52   give a little introduction to our [TS]

00:00:53   primary topic for tonight yeah so this a [TS]

00:00:57   crazy idea that too distant to discuss [TS]

00:01:01   she-hulk which for those of you out [TS]

00:01:05   there who aren't as familiar with [TS]

00:01:06   she-hulk she's Bruce Banner the hoax [TS]

00:01:08   cousin [TS]

00:01:10   yes I who apparently at first appeared [TS]

00:01:13   in 1980 and it's in savage she-hulk [TS]

00:01:16   number one so that's just a bit of [TS]

00:01:18   trivia i just looked up back when she [TS]

00:01:20   was savage back when she was savage but [TS]

00:01:22   we're not looking at the series known as [TS]

00:01:24   savage she-hulk we're looking at her [TS]

00:01:28   second series and her i think it's the [TS]

00:01:30   third or third series is a series of a [TS]

00:01:34   failed series of a failed serious but [TS]

00:01:36   the actually looking at a character and [TS]

00:01:41   heard her treatment by two different [TS]

00:01:43   writers in two different series is that [TS]

00:01:46   were similar yet different the [TS]

00:01:48   sensational she-hulk by john byrne and [TS]

00:01:51   the just self-titled she-hulk that was [TS]

00:01:54   written by Dan Slott and then after [TS]

00:01:57   we're done with that we'll we'll maybe [TS]

00:01:59   branch out into some other other kind of [TS]

00:02:01   Hulk related things because I find this [TS]

00:02:03   whole I find actually kind of bizarre [TS]

00:02:05   that there is a a you know a whole [TS]

00:02:06   family of things because the whole as a [TS]

00:02:10   character in his own right is kind of [TS]

00:02:13   problematic and peculiar and maybe we'll [TS]

00:02:15   talk about that a little bit too we have [TS]

00:02:17   a chance but the assigned reading was [TS]

00:02:18   these two defunct she-hulk series which [TS]

00:02:24   are fascinating [TS]

00:02:25   I i was reading comics i believe when [TS]

00:02:27   the first came out and i think i might [TS]

00:02:30   have been back reading comics when the [TS]

00:02:31   second one came out and i have no I [TS]

00:02:33   think no recollection of either we think [TS]

00:02:36   that explains why they didn't last very [TS]

00:02:38   long it will the the the the first [TS]

00:02:42   series the sensational she-hulk by john [TS]

00:02:45   byrne sort of at the height of john [TS]

00:02:49   byrne is them as he was riding the fence [TS]

00:02:51   writing and drawing the Fantastic Four [TS]

00:02:53   on what's considered one of their best [TS]

00:02:55   runs he did the she-hulk series as well [TS]

00:03:00   as several other things because he was [TS]

00:03:01   writing and drawing a dozen books that a [TS]

00:03:03   month at that time but the the series [TS]

00:03:07   interesting so is one of the first [TS]

00:03:08   series is that broke the fourth wall and [TS]

00:03:11   and had the character aware that she was [TS]

00:03:14   in a comic book and she spent some time [TS]

00:03:16   talking to the writer about the dubious [TS]

00:03:23   decisions he was making with her series [TS]

00:03:25   yes which is also the the hitters a [TS]

00:03:28   great [TS]

00:03:29   there's a greats I've got the trade and [TS]

00:03:31   I think my absolute favorite part of the [TS]

00:03:33   john byrne book is on pages 126 and 127 [TS]

00:03:36   when she runs across the advertisement [TS]

00:03:38   and she says don't ask questions were [TS]

00:03:41   into the Zen of comic books here it only [TS]

00:03:42   works if you don't think about it i have [TS]

00:03:46   to note that the letters column for this [TS]

00:03:48   comic was called shemale haha and also [TS]

00:03:53   that there is a great cliffhanger f-in [TS]

00:03:57   issue too i believe where they come up [TS]

00:04:00   the shield said they actually cut off [TS]

00:04:03   she-hulk's head and then for most of [TS]

00:04:04   issue 3 [TS]

00:04:05   she is a disembodied head is going to [TS]

00:04:08   realize that in in like a very quick [TS]

00:04:11   hand wave that it's all been a [TS]

00:04:13   misdirection and her head was never [TS]

00:04:15   actually cut off be but it doesn't [TS]

00:04:18   matter anyway because it's just a comic [TS]

00:04:20   book so here yet that that was pretty [TS]

00:04:22   much the tone here it's funny I I guess [TS]

00:04:24   John Byrne was kind of a made man marvel [TS]

00:04:26   when he did this so he could do they're [TS]

00:04:27   like whatever do whatever [TS]

00:04:29   well he created creek he helped create [TS]

00:04:31   kitty pryde with chris klem yeah so that [TS]

00:04:34   that was a lot of money also he was big [TS]

00:04:35   on the x-men way so he had the beard [TS]

00:04:38   big run with claremont the x-men and he [TS]

00:04:40   and and clairmont had a had a conflict [TS]

00:04:43   creative conflict and so burn left and [TS]

00:04:49   went off to do you know basically i [TS]

00:04:51   forget the time and I think it was [TS]

00:04:52   almost immediate that went off and did [TS]

00:04:53   fantastic for which like jason said was [TS]

00:04:56   a legendary run and that's the i [TS]

00:04:58   remember reading that and that was he [TS]

00:05:00   made it a you know bizarre sci-fi book [TS]

00:05:04   put geochim the Fantastic Four for a [TS]

00:05:06   while too so obviously he has this a [TS]

00:05:08   great affinity for this character but if [TS]

00:05:10   you like at that point he had enough [TS]

00:05:12   cloud at marvel that they let him do [TS]

00:05:15   this sensational she-hulk seriously it [TS]

00:05:19   really only lasts eight issues Jason [TS]

00:05:20   know it did a tissues under burn and [TS]

00:05:24   then it's which direction and there was [TS]

00:05:28   a different writer and artist but then [TS]

00:05:30   burn came back with issue 32 and started [TS]

00:05:35   off issue 32 with her waking up from a [TS]

00:05:37   dream of the past whatever many issues [TS]

00:05:40   and she left off initially and then [TS]

00:05:43   continued the tone of issue 8 for [TS]

00:05:44   another like 15 or 16 issues that [TS]

00:05:47   haven't been reprinted well so yeah I [TS]

00:05:51   don't know what led him to leave the [TS]

00:05:53   book but he came back in and just picked [TS]

00:05:56   up where he left off so i think the the [TS]

00:06:00   tone essentially i always remember I [TS]

00:06:02   didn't read this at the time when it [TS]

00:06:04   came out but i do remember the first [TS]

00:06:06   issue cover which was just a [TS]

00:06:07   three-quarter shot of she-hulk standing [TS]

00:06:10   there with holding an x-men comic in her [TS]

00:06:15   hand and saying okay now is this is your [TS]

00:06:18   second chance if you don't buy my book [TS]

00:06:20   this time I'm going to come to your [TS]

00:06:21   house and rip up all your x-men yeah [TS]

00:06:23   yeah which i still remember those sort [TS]

00:06:26   of ads in the Marvel comic didn't get me [TS]

00:06:27   to read the book but I remember it [TS]

00:06:30   this book has such great nineteen [TS]

00:06:32   eighties aesthetics 20 I was the the [TS]

00:06:35   first time I read through the john byrne [TS]

00:06:36   Block III was transported back to the [TS]

00:06:39   bush one administration for shock [TS]

00:06:42   oh yeah that with it with the style that [TS]

00:06:44   they draw the the hair everyone has this [TS]

00:06:46   crazy full volume hair [TS]

00:06:49   and and and she has a lot of green hair [TS]

00:06:51   a giant mound of green hair on the top [TS]

00:06:54   yes even when they make her the [TS]

00:06:56   alter-ego glamazonian and they cover her [TS]

00:06:58   with acres of makeup it's the same thing [TS]

00:06:59   and john byrne also does a wonderful job [TS]

00:07:03   of using people's physiognomies to [TS]

00:07:06   broadcast whether they're good guys bad [TS]

00:07:08   guys comic relief [TS]

00:07:09   it's it's almost like anime where you've [TS]

00:07:13   got these very clear visual conventions [TS]

00:07:15   as to who falls we're on the heroism and [TS]

00:07:17   villainy scale just based on how they're [TS]

00:07:19   built in the page 86 in the trade as a [TS]

00:07:23   great she's getting dressed for her new [TS]

00:07:25   job as the assistant district attorney [TS]

00:07:27   and it's just a panel after panel of a [TS]

00:07:30   tease fashion [TS]

00:07:31   oh yeah you don't reminds me of is a [TS]

00:07:33   back in the nineteen twenties and [TS]

00:07:35   thirties when there were several movies [TS]

00:07:37   where you have these long fashion [TS]

00:07:38   interludes we each have had obviously [TS]

00:07:40   was just given free rein to throw up on [TS]

00:07:41   the screen whatever she wanted and and [TS]

00:07:43   this reminds me very much of those [TS]

00:07:45   sequences where the characters have to [TS]

00:07:46   politely be protected it politely [TS]

00:07:48   pretend to be interested in a fashion [TS]

00:07:50   show because I could but what is the [TS]

00:07:52   point here oh if there ever was a [TS]

00:07:54   character who didn't need shoulder pads [TS]

00:07:56   it's this one it was the she-hulk right [TS]

00:07:59   yeah it's amazing John Byrne is i mean [TS]

00:08:03   he he represents the eighties and comics [TS]

00:08:05   in it for me to be and I look at the art [TS]

00:08:08   and I'm immediately transported back to [TS]

00:08:10   those x-men issues to that fantastic [TS]

00:08:12   four run to the original help Alpha [TS]

00:08:14   Flight seriously I like right and this [TS]

00:08:19   is this is not not something I was [TS]

00:08:21   familiar with Owen roccat the hair with [TS]

00:08:23   the crazy head pat benatar headband it [TS]

00:08:25   to you [TS]

00:08:26   oh my god yes yeah and the storytelling [TS]

00:08:29   here is I mean it in in the shield [TS]

00:08:31   series it's it's so strange and meta it [TS]

00:08:33   is it is telling like that it's got the [TS]

00:08:36   trappings of a comic book story but it's [TS]

00:08:38   almost like something you'd see and you [TS]

00:08:41   know Marvel always has been very self [TS]

00:08:44   referential and and and this is you know [TS]

00:08:47   whether it's a get whatever serving for [TS]

00:08:49   Busher you know thinking food that is [TS]

00:08:51   just merry Marvel marching Society this [TS]

00:08:54   stone is kinda like that where it's like [TS]

00:08:56   we're playing with these Marvel [TS]

00:08:58   characters but it's never really serious [TS]

00:09:01   and [TS]

00:09:02   yeah it's but it's kind of bizarre [TS]

00:09:04   actually because it's so broad and weird [TS]

00:09:07   and yet then you know then there's a [TS]

00:09:09   tie-in and and she's with the Fantastic [TS]

00:09:11   Four it so it's a really it's kind of [TS]

00:09:14   crazy but like i said i get the feeling [TS]

00:09:15   like John Byrne was allowed latitude at [TS]

00:09:18   least for a while he was allowed to [TS]

00:09:20   latitude to just do these crazy stories [TS]

00:09:22   type of structure that the all of the [TS]

00:09:25   characters that he puts it the headmen [TS]

00:09:27   in the first couple issues that cut off [TS]

00:09:28   her head and that crazy one that had [TS]

00:09:31   that red ball and then later dr. bong [TS]

00:09:35   and stuff these are all Marvel villains [TS]

00:09:38   that are terrible go back into the [TS]

00:09:40   sixties and in things like that are just [TS]

00:09:42   terrible and in fact that he goes and [TS]

00:09:44   resurrect them and just embraces their [TS]

00:09:46   terribleness a dr. bong was a Howard the [TS]

00:09:50   doc villain as was that woman with the [TS]

00:09:53   Roundhead so the fact he's using Howard [TS]

00:09:56   the Duck villains to come in and find [TS]

00:09:59   she-hulk amuse me to no end and the [TS]

00:10:02   fight was still man i think it's some of [TS]

00:10:04   still my of my favorite panels in comics [TS]

00:10:07   in August issue for or page 102 of the [TS]

00:10:10   trade where she's fighting still men and [TS]

00:10:13   then he knocks her down by stamping on [TS]

00:10:15   her into the subway which then does the [TS]

00:10:18   banging of her head oh yeah as the train [TS]

00:10:20   passes by and then she just pushes both [TS]

00:10:23   legs collapsing still men and then catch [TS]

00:10:25   him as he falls down i saw that page on [TS]

00:10:28   ebay a while ago and bid on it but it [TS]

00:10:31   went to high school man is there's [TS]

00:10:34   another good villain there he's got [TS]

00:10:36   stilts right he's really release home [TS]

00:10:39   yeah watch out for me i have a tall and [TS]

00:10:43   my center of gravity is a little bit [TS]

00:10:44   often that's the same issue where she [TS]

00:10:46   puts on the various outfits [TS]

00:10:48   yeah that's a classic um so if it one of [TS]

00:10:54   the things i think it's interesting [TS]

00:10:55   about the she-hulk character [TS]

00:10:57   particularly for the eighties you know [TS]

00:10:59   the eighties when it was the dark knight [TS]

00:11:01   and Batman year one and it was all about [TS]

00:11:03   the grimace so serious [TS]

00:11:05   superheroes and she's absolutely the [TS]

00:11:07   exact opposite of that [TS]

00:11:09   yeah off and it's awesome [TS]

00:11:11   right because he's where it seems like [TS]

00:11:13   his informal manifested through all of [TS]

00:11:15   this should be comic should be fun you [TS]

00:11:16   should always remember that it should be [TS]

00:11:18   fun to read them and I'm having fun [TS]

00:11:19   riding them [TS]

00:11:20   mhm but it's just this whole book is [TS]

00:11:22   just when i read the two back first-ever [TS]

00:11:25   them separately gonna read them [TS]

00:11:26   back-to-back and this book is just so [TS]

00:11:28   much more fun unless honesty and she's [TS]

00:11:31   gotta find sense of the absurd which [TS]

00:11:33   when you think about the this year [TS]

00:11:35   existence of a she hoped to begin with I [TS]

00:11:37   think you kind of have to have a healthy [TS]

00:11:39   appreciation for just completely [TS]

00:11:41   ridiculous situations [TS]

00:11:44   well I love the contrast between the two [TS]

00:11:46   books because both are taking a humorous [TS]

00:11:49   approach but a while in the the latter [TS]

00:11:53   series that the dance lot series its [TS]

00:11:57   he's trying to write a humorous story [TS]

00:11:58   and where the john byrne stuff it's just [TS]

00:12:03   he's kind of embracing the absurdity of [TS]

00:12:05   comics [TS]

00:12:06   yes and it not trying to write a funny [TS]

00:12:09   story so much as just going to know what [TS]

00:12:10   all comics are funny [TS]

00:12:12   these are funny books and it's just [TS]

00:12:14   completely ridiculous it is I I kind of [TS]

00:12:18   find the single green female series by a [TS]

00:12:22   lot to be kind of sad way it's it's a [TS]

00:12:25   little depressing [TS]

00:12:26   I'll be honest with you especially [TS]

00:12:27   chicks kicked out of Avengers mansion [TS]

00:12:29   uh-huh uh-huh i thought that was great [TS]

00:12:32   well it's funny when even tony stark [TS]

00:12:33   it's like okay you know what [TS]

00:12:34   no this is pretty much under one roof [TS]

00:12:37   but i really loved the the slot series [TS]

00:12:41   which is from when when exactly so that [TS]

00:12:44   was a after Marvel went into bankruptcy [TS]

00:12:47   and we're looking at like early two [TS]

00:12:50   thousands [TS]

00:12:51   I'm and the reality thousands and comics [TS]

00:12:53   joe quesada just became became editor in [TS]

00:12:55   chief and was essentially Marvel have [TS]

00:12:59   excellent news [TS]

00:13:00   yeah there's nothing to lose so they [TS]

00:13:02   were trying anything and this is one of [TS]

00:13:03   those series with the kind of crazy [TS]

00:13:05   direction of you know it essentially [TS]

00:13:09   they're doing [TS]

00:13:10   ally mcbeal with she-hulk yeah it's it's [TS]

00:13:13   a that's that's probably explains why [TS]

00:13:15   didn't connect with I really didn't like [TS]

00:13:17   the series although i don't i don't [TS]

00:13:18   think it i don't think i would say it's [TS]

00:13:20   telling me feel like I would say it's [TS]

00:13:21   almost like la la haha [TS]

00:13:24   acceptance to love that little it's a [TS]

00:13:26   superhero it's super hero law the whole [TS]

00:13:28   idea is she's always been a lawyer why [TS]

00:13:31   not do it so she gets hired for a law [TS]

00:13:33   firm and it's great because she's having [TS]

00:13:35   this crisis of confidence it's like you [TS]

00:13:37   know it cannot be respected for Who I am [TS]

00:13:39   i I'm only respected because I'm the [TS]

00:13:41   she-hulk and even then not so much but [TS]

00:13:44   in my regular life as an attorney [TS]

00:13:45   Jennifer Walters all this so she finally [TS]

00:13:48   gets this this break she thinks and it [TS]

00:13:51   turns out it's to work at the law firm [TS]

00:13:52   but it's to work in the superhero [TS]

00:13:54   practice in the law firm which I love [TS]

00:13:57   because it ends up being these stories [TS]

00:14:00   where you know they're there they're [TS]

00:14:03   still fight some things but but there [TS]

00:14:05   are also these bizarre cases when you [TS]

00:14:07   start to think about it in terms of of [TS]

00:14:09   what would be the legal ramifications of [TS]

00:14:12   having me superpower people around which [TS]

00:14:14   I that tickled me and actually reminded [TS]

00:14:16   me I mean Lee so you and I have talked a [TS]

00:14:17   little bit about all some of those [TS]

00:14:19   ramifications of the legal ramifications [TS]

00:14:21   and what happens when the fights are [TS]

00:14:23   over and you have to clean up after work [TS]

00:14:24   because that the in a Marvel late [TS]

00:14:27   eighties they they had a series called [TS]

00:14:29   damage control which was about the [TS]

00:14:31   construction company that was hired to [TS]

00:14:34   always clean up after the superheroes [TS]

00:14:36   messages [TS]

00:14:36   wikipedia has something on yeah and [TS]

00:14:39   actually in the dance lot series the [TS]

00:14:43   damage control people are there it's [TS]

00:14:44   where Hercules ends up getting a job [TS]

00:14:46   right after he sued and loses all his [TS]

00:14:49   money so I really I i really appreciated [TS]

00:14:52   that there are these there's a trial [TS]

00:14:54   where ghosts is called as a witness [TS]

00:14:57   you know i love that it and she figures [TS]

00:14:59   out why he's lying it's it's a yeah that [TS]

00:15:02   so I really I i enjoyed it because it [TS]

00:15:04   was not as the burn stuff is nice from a [TS]

00:15:07   nostalgia purpose in it and it is crazy [TS]

00:15:10   but the the slot series I you know I [TS]

00:15:13   really I really enjoyed reading it I [TS]

00:15:14   having not known that it even existed [TS]

00:15:17   and and uh may I feel like I really [TS]

00:15:20   gotta roll in and you know sad that [TS]

00:15:22   obviously that it lasted almost no time [TS]

00:15:25   but but i like the premise that that you [TS]

00:15:29   know she's trying to be a superhero law [TS]

00:15:31   as a premise it's it's ridiculous and [TS]

00:15:33   and you know why not right [TS]

00:15:36   I mean it's like I love that [TS]

00:15:38   gnashing of those two things together [TS]

00:15:39   and having this character who's kind of [TS]

00:15:41   sympathetic because she wants to be more [TS]

00:15:43   you know she knows that she's kind of a [TS]

00:15:44   second-rate superhero and she wants to [TS]

00:15:46   to do something unique and her real [TS]

00:15:49   unique skill is that she's all she's [TS]

00:15:51   super hero who's a lawyer so this is the [TS]

00:15:53   perfect place for her in a way I feel [TS]

00:15:55   like I think I feel like there's a lot [TS]

00:15:56   of books that kind of tried that ground [TS]

00:15:58   with because when you think about it if [TS]

00:15:59   you're not in the DC Universe if you're [TS]

00:16:02   not Superman Batman Wonder Woman you our [TS]

00:16:04   second string if not third or fourth [TS]

00:16:06   string and I can remember when i read [TS]

00:16:08   the seven soldiers but grant morrison [TS]

00:16:11   did that was the whole point to that was [TS]

00:16:13   the whole cetana introduction was her [TS]

00:16:14   awareness that you know she was she was [TS]

00:16:17   not even be squad she was co-ed Squad [TS]

00:16:20   and and marble kinda does that to ya [TS]

00:16:22   I i think the differences is some some [TS]

00:16:25   every hero is number one in their own [TS]

00:16:27   comic book right and i think the [TS]

00:16:29   difference is the heroes that realize [TS]

00:16:32   that and likely she-hulk I see this [TS]

00:16:34   they're not you know that they may be [TS]

00:16:36   the star of their own lives but they [TS]

00:16:38   know that they're not in a way that you [TS]

00:16:40   know the flash maybe doesn't really [TS]

00:16:41   understand that he's not as cool as some [TS]

00:16:44   of the other people or Aquaman but but [TS]

00:16:48   she holds like get Aquaman she know [TS]

00:16:51   she's a second-stringer and she knows [TS]

00:16:52   that there is this place way that she's [TS]

00:16:54   unique and yeah so I think in the the [TS]

00:16:58   burn series where it's the absurdity and [TS]

00:17:00   it's just about she-hulk is having a [TS]

00:17:02   great time and then the slot series they [TS]

00:17:05   take that to the kind of extreme it [TS]

00:17:07   starts off with she-hulk this party girl [TS]

00:17:10   who's bringing home a different guy [TS]

00:17:11   every night and wrecking the Avengers [TS]

00:17:13   mansion with her parties and then [TS]

00:17:15   they're throwing her out and it turns [TS]

00:17:17   out she's kind of doing this because she [TS]

00:17:20   is somewhat depressed or or not not [TS]

00:17:23   happy with her life and there's that [TS]

00:17:25   scene at the end of the first issue [TS]

00:17:26   where she's in the bar and the the [TS]

00:17:29   well-known villain the blizzard you know [TS]

00:17:31   attacks are because she ruined his [TS]

00:17:33   chance to be a a name and he's tired of [TS]

00:17:36   being sent back to prison with all the [TS]

00:17:37   other small-time losers and rather than [TS]

00:17:41   fighting him [TS]

00:17:42   she's like well you know do you want to [TS]

00:17:43   drink in so okay shore and then they're [TS]

00:17:45   just drunk talking about the bar about [TS]

00:17:47   how he's talking about it's it's hard [TS]

00:17:49   being a nobody [TS]

00:17:50   nothing and she's like well it's [TS]

00:17:51   actually not so great being somebody [TS]

00:17:53   either and it's shallow and hollow and I [TS]

00:17:57   thought that was kind of really [TS]

00:17:58   interesting with the character and [TS]

00:18:01   inmates speaks that sadness that you [TS]

00:18:03   were talking about then she's got the [TS]

00:18:05   offer at the law firm but not they don't [TS]

00:18:07   want to hire she-hulk they want to hire [TS]

00:18:08   Jen Walters who she's not a fan of but [TS]

00:18:12   that yeah yeah but it and it's that [TS]

00:18:14   either or right it's like when you take [TS]

00:18:15   all of me is is basically the include [TS]

00:18:17   the whole thing [TS]

00:18:18   yeah so so I guess we've got you know a [TS]

00:18:21   kind of a mixed response because i [TS]

00:18:22   really like the dance lot series and i [TS]

00:18:24   would recommend that to people because I [TS]

00:18:25   thought it was kind of a kick and fun [TS]

00:18:27   and and a different take on i just love [TS]

00:18:29   those like let's take let's accept the [TS]

00:18:31   superhero world and then say if that is [TS]

00:18:35   a real world then lots of other things [TS]

00:18:37   we come from it including how would how [TS]

00:18:40   would the law deal with the superheroic [TS]

00:18:42   you know events not whether its [TS]

00:18:45   destruction or whether it's a possession [TS]

00:18:47   or a ghost or whatever and that's what I [TS]

00:18:49   really liked about it was kind of a [TS]

00:18:51   light touch it was funny you know it i [TS]

00:18:53   think the gin Walters is a likeable [TS]

00:18:56   character and then you you get to see a [TS]

00:18:57   corner of superhero dumb that you are [TS]

00:19:00   you don't normally see which was it was [TS]

00:19:02   fun it was a kick for me it and i love [TS]

00:19:04   the character of Awesome Andy yes yes oh [TS]

00:19:09   he was at the Whitney he starts [TS]

00:19:11   communicating glyphs you find anything [TS]

00:19:14   Yankee span right and awesome Andy out [TS]

00:19:18   there is a he's the the mad thinkers [TS]

00:19:21   synthetic android villain who has you [TS]

00:19:26   know either gain consciousness or is [TS]

00:19:28   malfunctioning depending on your point [TS]

00:19:30   of view and he's sort of the is it go [TS]

00:19:32   for his last letter of the law firm [TS]

00:19:34   yeah well you and they refer to him is [TS]

00:19:37   awesome hint awesome Andy again instead [TS]

00:19:40   of having a superteam what they've got [TS]

00:19:41   is a super law firm but you know what [TS]

00:19:44   this book kind of reminded me of is the [TS]

00:19:46   lunar brothers book ultra we're super [TS]

00:19:49   Harold superhero team has been basically [TS]

00:19:51   turned into a celebrity type of [TS]

00:19:52   commodity they have they have award [TS]

00:19:54   shows and there are subject to stuff and [TS]

00:19:57   gossip magazines and there and a lot of [TS]

00:20:01   the gossip is a lot of finger wagging [TS]

00:20:02   over ethical concerns about what happens [TS]

00:20:04   new data superhero eccentric cetera so [TS]

00:20:06   there's a little bit of a zeitgeist a [TS]

00:20:10   crossover and it was actually published [TS]

00:20:12   on the same time too because ultra came [TS]

00:20:14   out between august of 2004 marcha 2005 [TS]

00:20:18   that said this one definitely has more [TS]

00:20:21   tongue-in-cheek humor and I do like that [TS]

00:20:23   they call back to us some of the classic [TS]

00:20:24   she-hulk's definitely calling her silky [TS]

00:20:26   as i pronounce it the thing called are [TS]

00:20:29   shocking when he helps her move into her [TS]

00:20:30   new apartment [TS]

00:20:31   yeah i like when they sued when [TS]

00:20:33   Spiderman sued the Daily Bugle okay yeah [TS]

00:20:37   and jefferson st dress up like a chicken [TS]

00:20:39   yeah yes sir funny it is but it's it's [TS]

00:20:45   the ally mcbeal 5i can't quite get over [TS]

00:20:47   and and I'm it that's my own personal [TS]

00:20:49   bias i think that's yeah I think that's [TS]

00:20:52   your own baggage there is that I don't [TS]

00:20:54   admit it is so what I think I thought [TS]

00:20:57   was interesting you know we've talked [TS]

00:20:58   about female characters in comics before [TS]

00:21:01   and is I always find it interesting when [TS]

00:21:04   those discussions come up that she hulk [TS]

00:21:08   is never mentioned even though she sort [TS]

00:21:09   of headline her own book what three or [TS]

00:21:12   four times now and and wild each [TS]

00:21:15   individual series may not have been like [TS]

00:21:17   a huge commercial sack success writers [TS]

00:21:21   are certainly interested in her but [TS]

00:21:25   she's never brought up in those calm [TS]

00:21:26   those conversations when you know people [TS]

00:21:28   are talking about Catwoman or or [TS]

00:21:31   batwoman or Supergirl or any of those [TS]

00:21:34   sort of or Wonder Woman you know but [TS]

00:21:37   here these books where it's a in [TS]

00:21:40   interesting female lead and you know [TS]

00:21:43   maybe it's because the books are taken [TS]

00:21:45   more humor direction that they're not [TS]

00:21:50   taken seriously [TS]

00:21:51   yeah I how wonder how much of that is [TS]

00:21:53   that she's seen not just as a I mean she [TS]

00:21:57   seen as a derivative character to I mean [TS]

00:21:59   I i mentioned the whole before and i [TS]

00:22:01   would like to talk about other kind of [TS]

00:22:02   Hulk family related things but but that [TS]

00:22:05   comes to part of the problem with the [TS]

00:22:07   she-hulk is that you know she is [TS]

00:22:09   literally the xi dash [TS]

00:22:12   other character right she is she is the [TS]

00:22:16   derivative female offshoot of popular [TS]

00:22:19   character and I think that I think [TS]

00:22:21   that's part of the problem is that she's [TS]

00:22:23   not you know she gets the name [TS]

00:22:25   recognition because she's got holcomb [TS]

00:22:26   title and she's green but she also is [TS]

00:22:29   always going to be viewed as as a you [TS]

00:22:32   know a spin-off character she doesn't [TS]

00:22:33   even have her own identity really she's [TS]

00:22:35   just the female version of The Hulk and [TS]

00:22:36   you get to know the character and you [TS]

00:22:38   know that there's a lot more there but [TS]

00:22:40   you know the fact is from from a [TS]

00:22:42   distance she's not really iconic she's [TS]

00:22:44   just a female spin on us a different [TS]

00:22:47   iconic character which is you know not [TS]

00:22:50   the same thing [TS]

00:22:51   what I guess but I what I'm getting hung [TS]

00:22:54   up on is because you mentioned whole [TS]

00:22:56   family and I thought you know there's [TS]

00:22:57   actually been fairly successful back [TS]

00:22:59   family they've managed to spend it out [TS]

00:23:01   where you had batman batgirl batwoman [TS]

00:23:04   yes Batman Incorporated Batman limited [TS]

00:23:07   liability corporation and then you that [TS]

00:23:10   you've got Nightwing and ride the [TS]

00:23:12   different Robbins whom I've lost track [TS]

00:23:14   of and that wing darkwing yeah why [TS]

00:23:17   couldn't I couldn't you were mrs. Batman [TS]

00:23:19   that was less successful mrs. Batman [TS]

00:23:22   no you're right it's been franchised in [TS]

00:23:24   a way and yeah and that's it and that's [TS]

00:23:26   fairly clever but i don't know maybe [TS]

00:23:29   that's sweet generous to the DC universe [TS]

00:23:31   because I can't think of another of [TS]

00:23:34   another mark a type hero in DC that's [TS]

00:23:37   managed to feel about so well maybe the [TS]

00:23:41   marbles with Miss marked with Mary [TS]

00:23:42   marble and Captain Marvel but that still [TS]

00:23:46   fairly limited whereas if you had [TS]

00:23:48   somebody could have Holcomb and she [TS]

00:23:49   hoped but they still haven't managed to [TS]

00:23:51   build that kind of look they all have [TS]

00:23:54   something in well other than being big [TS]

00:23:56   and green the characters actually have [TS]

00:23:58   nothing in common [TS]

00:23:59   where I never wear whereas i guess the [TS]

00:24:00   thing with the bat with with the [TS]

00:24:02   bat-family is that whereas they all kind [TS]

00:24:03   of have a shared ethos maybe as long as [TS]

00:24:07   the ethos starts with we don't ever [TS]

00:24:08   question birth way right work we're all [TS]

00:24:10   mad Bruce Wayne's parents were killed [TS]

00:24:12   yes definitely keeps trying to to build [TS]

00:24:16   these family things I mean there how [TS]

00:24:18   many x-men books now and how many [TS]

00:24:20   Avengers books for which they're used to [TS]

00:24:21   read have been a lot of x-men books for [TS]

00:24:23   a long time but now there are a lot of [TS]

00:24:25   and different kinds of Avengers yeah and [TS]

00:24:28   and with Hulk you know they have the [TS]

00:24:30   they have like the Red Hulk and they had [TS]

00:24:32   scar son of hulk and they have the [TS]

00:24:34   incredible hulk and they had the [TS]

00:24:35   although you it was Hercules for a while [TS]

00:24:37   and and you know it did so they're [TS]

00:24:39   trying to to do that which is actually a [TS]

00:24:41   little surprised there isn't more [TS]

00:24:42   she-hulk action going on since at Marvel [TS]

00:24:45   is trying to build these you know I [TS]

00:24:48   think that's part of the strategy is to [TS]

00:24:49   build these worlds within I could say [TS]

00:24:53   worlds within worlds here and make [TS]

00:24:54   micronauts reference so i might as well [TS]

00:24:56   do that if you get these little worlds [TS]

00:24:57   right where it's not that you don't have [TS]

00:24:59   to read every marvel it's somewhere in [TS]

00:25:01   between reading like all the Marvel [TS]

00:25:02   titles and reading one book it's to say [TS]

00:25:04   a hot now what you're going to do is [TS]

00:25:06   you're going to read these six that are [TS]

00:25:08   all underneath the x-men family where [TS]

00:25:10   the Avengers family and they kind of [TS]

00:25:12   with with like the Red Hulk especially [TS]

00:25:15   there are trying to say can we do more [TS]

00:25:16   Hulk's can we add some Hulk's there's a [TS]

00:25:19   red she-hulk now [TS]

00:25:21   yes there is a red she-hulk right it's [TS]

00:25:23   that so there's like it is the whole [TS]

00:25:24   family that's why i keep saying is [TS]

00:25:25   they've you know tried to spread it out [TS]

00:25:27   and make make them be more Hulk's which [TS]

00:25:30   is weird since like the Hulk was this [TS]

00:25:31   whole gamma bomb experiment gone wrong [TS]

00:25:34   and they've managed to now she hoped it [TS]

00:25:37   was became she helped because of a blood [TS]

00:25:39   transfusion yes as a patient banners [TS]

00:25:41   radioactive blood and then hope the the [TS]

00:25:47   scar son of hulk came from that whole [TS]

00:25:49   planet whole series yes we're still [TS]

00:25:52   stuck at the whole kind of spaceship and [TS]

00:25:54   were like yeah [TS]

00:25:55   better luck next time sucker so right [TS]

00:25:57   I'm holding in my hands the plan a whole [TS]

00:25:59   card cover by the way and as somebody [TS]

00:26:01   who is not my girlfriend in high school [TS]

00:26:03   actually ended up marrying the guy who [TS]

00:26:05   may be the biggest incredible hulk fan [TS]

00:26:08   in the in the world and I i find that [TS]

00:26:12   amusing because I I like comics and I [TS]

00:26:13   never been a fan of the Hulk at all but [TS]

00:26:15   i gotta say planet hulk by Greg POC is [TS]

00:26:18   great and not just because there are [TS]

00:26:21   many things in it that are micro notes [TS]

00:26:22   references there are though there are [TS]

00:26:24   three probably one of the Micronauts to [TS]

00:26:27   when he was a kid but it's a great [TS]

00:26:28   self-contained story because literally [TS]

00:26:30   yeah Lisa they shoot the Hulk away in a [TS]

00:26:33   spaceship and say see you later because [TS]

00:26:35   you [TS]

00:26:35   stop breaking our planet and they write [TS]

00:26:38   and send them off to another planet [TS]

00:26:39   which of course precedes to break but uh [TS]

00:26:42   huh [TS]

00:26:42   it's a great self-contained story [TS]

00:26:44   because he starts with nothing and he in [TS]

00:26:46   there is the this kind of complexity of [TS]

00:26:48   what's going on this planet and its this [TS]

00:26:49   wild adventure where he goes from being [TS]

00:26:52   it's like gladiator with the whole key [TS]

00:26:54   starts in the in the pits as a warrior [TS]

00:26:57   you know for for people's amusement and [TS]

00:26:59   he over time becomes essentially the [TS]

00:27:02   ruler of the planet in this in in this [TS]

00:27:05   12 issues story arc and it's a great [TS]

00:27:07   story so you know that that and and out [TS]

00:27:09   of that spun world war hulk in the and [TS]

00:27:12   the scar son of hulk spin-off and things [TS]

00:27:14   like that and i think i think maybe [TS]

00:27:15   that's what gave the Hulk a lot of [TS]

00:27:16   velocity is it because Hulk as a [TS]

00:27:20   character is kinda in some ways is kind [TS]

00:27:22   of boring because you know he smashes [TS]

00:27:24   things and and nobody can really decide [TS]

00:27:26   to see is you have is a really [TS]

00:27:28   intelligent or not intelligent at all or [TS]

00:27:30   somewhere in between and planet hulk I [TS]

00:27:32   felt like they gave him some definition [TS]

00:27:34   and kind of a purpose and kind of a [TS]

00:27:36   collection of characters around him and [TS]

00:27:39   I think they coasted on that or or that [TS]

00:27:41   may be unfair to say I think it took [TS]

00:27:43   advantage of that for a while because it [TS]

00:27:45   was like oh ok this character now has [TS]

00:27:47   some definition that it it never really [TS]

00:27:49   had before well I think the earlier in [TS]

00:27:53   the the late eighties early nineties [TS]

00:27:54   when Peter David was running the the [TS]

00:27:57   Hulk franchise in and did a fairly [TS]

00:28:00   classic run on the Hulk he tried to [TS]

00:28:02   address that by essentially introducing [TS]

00:28:06   the idea that the Hulk was because [TS]

00:28:09   banner was abused as a child the the [TS]

00:28:12   Hulk was a manifestation of his his [TS]

00:28:17   childhood rage and then he became the [TS]

00:28:22   gray Hawk which was his sort of [TS]

00:28:24   repressed a [TS]

00:28:26   it is repressed sexual side and they'll [TS]

00:28:31   do there's a better better explained [TS]

00:28:33   with a great help it i really like that [TS]

00:28:34   Peter David run because the menus the [TS]

00:28:38   grey Hulk which was a the window help [TS]

00:28:43   first came out he was grey and then for [TS]

00:28:45   issues later they made him green for no [TS]

00:28:47   other reason than the printer really [TS]

00:28:48   couldn't get gray right which was a [TS]

00:28:51   problem with printing back in the [TS]

00:28:52   sixties on newspaper and so they went ok [TS]

00:28:55   fine make them green so then Peter David [TS]

00:28:58   brought back the grey Hulk through this [TS]

00:29:00   when you're one of the banner trying to [TS]

00:29:02   separate himself from Hulk things and [TS]

00:29:04   the grey Hulk was smaller not as strong [TS]

00:29:07   as the green Hulk didn't come out [TS]

00:29:09   because of anger came out at at night I [TS]

00:29:11   mean it was a nocturnal thing but he had [TS]

00:29:16   intelligence and he was mean and nasty [TS]

00:29:18   and so what he ended up doing was he the [TS]

00:29:22   great whole nightmare character [TS]

00:29:24   what was it this the series then it sort [TS]

00:29:26   of had this big break where oh my god [TS]

00:29:27   what happened to Hulk is he dead or not [TS]

00:29:29   and then it jumps forward a period of [TS]

00:29:31   time and there's this character in vegas [TS]

00:29:33   who's working as a essentially a bouncer [TS]

00:29:36   at a casino in Vegas named Joe fix fix [TS]

00:29:39   that right who's the grey Hulk and he [TS]

00:29:42   establishes a life for himself and he [TS]

00:29:44   gets a girlfriend and a job and you know [TS]

00:29:47   there's a whole cast of characters in [TS]

00:29:49   vegas at the casino he works for and it [TS]

00:29:52   was really intriguing and then what had [TS]

00:29:54   had what he was doing was taking [TS]

00:29:55   sleeping pills so then banner would [TS]

00:29:58   sleep through the day and he'd be the [TS]

00:29:59   hulk at night and then what Peter David [TS]

00:30:02   did was eventually the banner kept [TS]

00:30:04   started coming out and all throughout [TS]

00:30:07   the hooks history it was the Hulk was [TS]

00:30:09   effing with banners life and peter david [TS]

00:30:12   turned on his head and I was the Hulk [TS]

00:30:14   who had a life and and are kept coming [TS]

00:30:16   back and trying to mess with like the [TS]

00:30:18   Hulk's life in vegas and i really like [TS]

00:30:21   the Joe fix it [TS]

00:30:22   character and he had this girlfriend Lea [TS]

00:30:24   Marlo and then later on you know Betty [TS]

00:30:26   Bruce banners girlfriend sometimes wife [TS]

00:30:29   came back and then so you had either [TS]

00:30:32   banner or the Hulk hanging out with both [TS]

00:30:34   their girlfriend and the other [TS]

00:30:35   personalities girlfriend which led to [TS]

00:30:39   awkward [TS]

00:30:39   conversations there was like basically a [TS]

00:30:41   cast of characters and some really [TS]

00:30:43   interesting things happening and then [TS]

00:30:44   Peter David merge the different [TS]

00:30:47   personalities and that's when the smart [TS]

00:30:48   Hulk came out and it was banner as the [TS]

00:30:52   hulk and that lasted a few years where [TS]

00:30:55   he didn't change anymore and he had [TS]

00:30:57   intelligence but it was big and strong [TS]

00:30:59   and green III my favorite of all the [TS]

00:31:03   hooks tough is that that run where it [TS]

00:31:05   was Joe fix it in vegas just because it [TS]

00:31:08   flipped the entire kind of dynamic of [TS]

00:31:10   the series III I that's good i i i [TS]

00:31:14   highly recommend intern planet hulk I [TS]

00:31:16   think there's some so it's interesting [TS]

00:31:18   because we're talking about the halkan [TS]

00:31:19   comics you know the Hulk is a [TS]

00:31:21   problematic character in general right [TS]

00:31:23   because wewe look-look at the movies [TS]

00:31:25   I hate right with that they've made to [TS]

00:31:27   movies the only two movies really in [TS]

00:31:29   Marvel's collection of movies recently [TS]

00:31:31   that have been almost entirely [TS]

00:31:34   unsuccessful electra daredevil yeah well [TS]

00:31:38   okay so the ones that are kind of under [TS]

00:31:40   Marvel's don't know there's a difference [TS]

00:31:43   between the ones they went off and other [TS]

00:31:44   studios produce them but in the words [TS]

00:31:46   you're introducing themselves like they [TS]

00:31:48   tried it with Angli and then they tried [TS]

00:31:50   again with that French director in there [TS]

00:31:53   that where Edward Norton rewrote I've [TS]

00:31:56   seen both of them and and the and i [TS]

00:32:00   think the general feeling is that the [TS]

00:32:01   movies didn't really get the Hulk right [TS]

00:32:03   until the Avengers you know so we added [TS]

00:32:08   many Avengers there's a struggle and [TS]

00:32:09   there's a lot of confusion from people [TS]

00:32:11   who've seen the adventures about the [TS]

00:32:12   Hulk there because the implication if [TS]

00:32:14   you watch The Avengers a couple of times [TS]

00:32:17   is that he is the rules are [TS]

00:32:20   he's an uncontrollable rage monster when [TS]

00:32:22   he rages out and becomes the Hulk but [TS]

00:32:25   when he chooses to turn into the hulk [TS]

00:32:26   there's more intelligence murder [TS]

00:32:28   yeah he can he can collaborate right [TS]

00:32:31   right so you get a little bit of both [TS]

00:32:32   because that's the thing with the Hulk [TS]

00:32:34   is he you know it's fun to watch him [TS]

00:32:36   just be an uncontrollable rage monster [TS]

00:32:38   but there's not a lot you can do with [TS]

00:32:39   that character he just he's like a [TS]

00:32:40   tornado week appears and destroys things [TS]

00:32:42   and then goes away but if you can give [TS]

00:32:45   him a little bit of intelligence that he [TS]

00:32:46   becomes a little bit more interesting [TS]

00:32:47   and then then he can become evil that [TS]

00:32:51   the classic TV series did a good job [TS]

00:32:52   with Hulk was just a rage monster you [TS]

00:32:55   know with Bill Bixby in blue free male 1 [TS]

00:32:58   yeah it dramatically it kind of cuts you [TS]

00:33:02   off from a lot of possibilities there [TS]

00:33:03   and it's true that series was difficult [TS]

00:33:06   because it was like I mean it was really [TS]

00:33:07   a repetitive show and i watched it as a [TS]

00:33:09   kid but I mean literally every week he [TS]

00:33:12   would just go to a town and befriend [TS]

00:33:14   somebody and the hawk would appear in a [TS]

00:33:17   crusading reporter would be chasing him [TS]

00:33:19   and you know it was it was kind of all [TS]

00:33:21   the same and a movie you know I think [TS]

00:33:25   yeah I think your little you need more [TS]

00:33:26   it's really interesting you know I'm [TS]

00:33:29   amazed that the Hulk is recognizable and [TS]

00:33:31   successful character as he is and has [TS]

00:33:34   had the spin-offs and created the [TS]

00:33:35   she-hulk and all these other things [TS]

00:33:37   because like a dinosaur in the sense [TS]

00:33:39   that little kids think the dinosaurs are [TS]

00:33:41   cool and you love looking at their [TS]

00:33:42   castles and the truth of the matter is [TS]

00:33:44   if you ran across a 12-foot tall lizard [TS]

00:33:47   that is capable of snapping you in half [TS]

00:33:49   like an hors d'oeuvre you'd be filled [TS]

00:33:52   with the combination of terror and [TS]

00:33:53   loathing and I I think maybe the whole [TS]

00:33:55   case the same way we're so long as Jesus [TS]

00:33:57   fictitious giant agent of chaos you know [TS]

00:34:00   you enjoy that he has other people [TS]

00:34:01   headaches and you just don't have to [TS]

00:34:03   examine it very closely and sometimes I [TS]

00:34:05   think the whole cause a better idea [TS]

00:34:07   better at you know on paper than in [TS]

00:34:10   practice just in general that it's a [TS]

00:34:12   cool idea and judiciously use which may [TS]

00:34:15   also be part of the trick of why it [TS]

00:34:16   works in the Avengers is that it's not a [TS]

00:34:18   movie about him and he can be a small [TS]

00:34:20   part of his kind of the garnish the [TS]

00:34:23   parsley of UV and it also helps that [TS]

00:34:25   microphone robert downey jr have worked [TS]

00:34:27   together before they've got a nice [TS]

00:34:28   chemistry [TS]

00:34:29   oh yeah that's the he's now because [TS]

00:34:31   banner and getting all about their [TS]

00:34:32   cameras yeah and the interaction between [TS]

00:34:34   banner and Tony Stark [TS]

00:34:35   yeah so you know I I'm you know I think [TS]

00:34:39   the Hulk is really a problematic [TS]

00:34:40   character and it's amazing but there's [TS]

00:34:41   obviously as my high school girlfriends [TS]

00:34:44   husband would attest you know he [TS]

00:34:46   obviously has some some huge appeal [TS]

00:34:49   because he's got he's got his fans and I [TS]

00:34:51   think maybe it has to do with these kind [TS]

00:34:53   of you know places where it goes off [TS]

00:34:56   into unexpected areas whether you're [TS]

00:34:58   sending them to another planet or you're [TS]

00:35:00   giving him [TS]

00:35:00   a job in Las Vegas and have and flipping [TS]

00:35:03   the whole thing on its head [TS]

00:35:05   you know that may be but again what does [TS]

00:35:07   that say about the character that the [TS]

00:35:08   most interesting things are when you da [TS]

00:35:11   ya from his from his scripted role you [TS]

00:35:14   have smart writers who are like what can [TS]

00:35:15   i do this to make this interesting and [TS]

00:35:17   it's not the core it's something very [TS]

00:35:19   different [TS]

00:35:21   what was he created what was about what [TS]

00:35:22   about what he was in the the 63 or 64 he [TS]

00:35:27   was one of the original you know Marvel [TS]

00:35:29   fantastic for spider-man 92 it's us so [TS]

00:35:34   it's the original marble wondering if [TS]

00:35:36   he's basically a relic of his time [TS]

00:35:38   because when you think about it we tend [TS]

00:35:40   to treat anti-heroes and heroes much [TS]

00:35:42   differently than when the Hawks not a [TS]

00:35:45   hero either right and he's not you know [TS]

00:35:47   he's basically chaotic neutral at best [TS]

00:35:49   candy alignment back back in the day [TS]

00:35:54   when it was a small Marvel Universe he [TS]

00:35:58   was the anti character who would appear [TS]

00:36:01   you don't fight the Fantastic Four he [TS]

00:36:03   would fight he was the cause of the [TS]

00:36:06   Avengers getting together raising the [TS]

00:36:08   Ultimate Universe he's basically doing [TS]

00:36:09   that too because Bruce Banner is just [TS]

00:36:11   this despicable tony little scientist [TS]

00:36:13   and he ends up being a lot more trouble [TS]

00:36:16   than he's worth especially as the Hulk [TS]

00:36:18   right it's actually I'm glad you brought [TS]

00:36:19   up ultimate Hulk because I think that's [TS]

00:36:21   a really sort of good writing of the [TS]

00:36:24   character in that he's justice you know [TS]

00:36:26   rage monster who goes around eating [TS]

00:36:29   people and and threatening sexual in [TS]

00:36:32   violence against folks Freddie Prinze [TS]

00:36:34   jr. and back and send some the shield [TS]

00:36:39   and the Ultimate Universe there-there [TS]

00:36:40   there-there basically just a bunch of [TS]

00:36:42   cold-hearted sob ease their entire mo [TS]

00:36:44   for keeping him alive until it's too [TS]

00:36:46   inconvenient for Bruce to be alive is [TS]

00:36:48   how can we use this to our advantage in [TS]

00:36:51   a world where you're getting invaded by [TS]

00:36:53   crazy aliens and there are despots and [TS]

00:36:56   so on and so forth and then the Ultimate [TS]

00:36:58   Universe they do try to kill him [TS]

00:36:59   it obviously doesn't take ya to right [TS]

00:37:02   it's it's a solution that's actually [TS]

00:37:05   another a lot of people who have very [TS]

00:37:06   strong feelings about the Ultimate [TS]

00:37:08   Universe one way or the other and one of [TS]

00:37:10   the things I've always enjoyed about the [TS]

00:37:11   ultimate is some [TS]

00:37:14   actually do kill people will be [TS]

00:37:16   different for tactical or strategic [TS]

00:37:17   reasons or because they're just jerk [TS]

00:37:19   wads and I've always up and we'll let [TS]

00:37:22   your words [TS]

00:37:23   oh yeah no and put that closes plot [TS]

00:37:25   loopholes that get introduced in other [TS]

00:37:27   you know mainstream books for you where [TS]

00:37:29   you can't have Captain America go [TS]

00:37:30   shooting people because he's captain [TS]

00:37:31   america or while the x-men can always [TS]

00:37:34   find magneto to a draw but no one is [TS]

00:37:35   ever going to blow his head off [TS]

00:37:37   um and I i like i like that the writers [TS]

00:37:40   and the ultimate books always had the [TS]

00:37:41   guts to close those loopholes even [TS]

00:37:44   though it makes for some depressing [TS]

00:37:45   reading after a while [TS]

00:37:46   yes but you end up ultimate Hulk big fan [TS]

00:37:50   that's president captain america to you [TS]

00:37:52   by the way oh so they've gone off the [TS]

00:37:54   rails a bit huh [TS]

00:37:56   I've only read the first two drives so [TS]

00:37:58   far so steve is technically only coming [TS]

00:38:00   in from the cold by the time I've got [TS]

00:38:01   around to it and you don't actually [TS]

00:38:03   bother going beyond those first two [TS]

00:38:05   trades of the I enjoy having read riches [TS]

00:38:07   a supervillain now that is that is [TS]

00:38:09   clever but i bet i'm basically sticking [TS]

00:38:11   with ultimate spider-man only but yeah [TS]

00:38:13   but uh I do like the idea that that [TS]

00:38:16   ultimate Reed Richards is a crazy bad [TS]

00:38:19   guy [TS]

00:38:19   oh yeah really big sense because they [TS]

00:38:22   made him socially maladaptive and smart [TS]

00:38:25   and you know it's it's it's a good [TS]

00:38:29   combination for people who are well I'm [TS]

00:38:31   smarter than you and I have a grudge so [TS]

00:38:33   here I go [TS]

00:38:34   so the have you seen the new [TS]

00:38:36   indestructible hulk series by Mark Waid [TS]

00:38:40   that I guess is currently on issue [TS]

00:38:42   number four I have this whole Marvel now [TS]

00:38:44   so the premise there is kind of playing [TS]

00:38:49   off the avengers movie [TS]

00:38:51   Steve or bruce banner has decided you [TS]

00:38:55   know he is one of the smartest guys on [TS]

00:38:56   the planet but because of this whole [TS]

00:38:59   raging Hulk monster thing he doesn't [TS]

00:39:02   have any respect and actually isn't [TS]

00:39:03   doing any good and you know you have [TS]

00:39:05   Tony Stark going out and doing all these [TS]

00:39:07   amazing things and Reed Richards you [TS]

00:39:08   know saving the world and he why can't [TS]

00:39:12   he do that so he goes to shield with an [TS]

00:39:15   offer that says essentially you give me [TS]

00:39:17   an unlimited budget and a staff and i [TS]

00:39:19   will give you like you know inventions [TS]

00:39:22   that will transform the planet and you [TS]

00:39:25   know feed the sick and all that kind of [TS]

00:39:27   stuff [TS]

00:39:28   and what you get out of it in return is [TS]

00:39:30   that you can use the Hulk as a strategic [TS]

00:39:34   bomb actually and so he's done this deal [TS]

00:39:37   but it's all about he feels inferior to [TS]

00:39:41   tony stark and wants to do something [TS]

00:39:43   about that tired of being the agent of [TS]

00:39:46   chaos and wants to right-center I can't [TS]

00:39:49   i be mr. science man so he's made this [TS]

00:39:51   deal where shield gets the house this [TS]

00:39:54   house like white thank him [TS]

00:39:56   yeah a bit yeah I can't him yeah since [TS]

00:39:59   one of hankgames problems other than [TS]

00:40:00   beating his wife is the fact that he's [TS]

00:40:03   definitely like a second-tier intellect [TS]

00:40:05   in a world that has a lot of very showy [TS]

00:40:07   first your intellect and the they hanged [TS]

00:40:10   him Bruce Banner thing always bugged me [TS]

00:40:12   because it's you know how many times can [TS]

00:40:14   we have the brilliant scientist well I [TS]

00:40:15   mean Reed Richards to right it's like [TS]

00:40:17   how many times is a brilliant scientist [TS]

00:40:20   with the personality problems course you [TS]

00:40:23   know banners personality problems tend [TS]

00:40:25   to like destroy cities so that's extreme [TS]

00:40:30   yeah and then kill multiple people so do [TS]

00:40:33   we have more on on the whole career we [TS]

00:40:35   walked out [TS]

00:40:35   are we are we slowly shrinking back into [TS]

00:40:37   our human form [TS]

00:40:39   honestly this discussion has made me [TS]

00:40:40   appreciate john byrne she-hulk more haha [TS]

00:40:43   no it has because there's a sense of [TS]

00:40:46   humor there and you can kind of here ok [TS]

00:40:48   here's another reason to appreciate it [TS]

00:40:50   and none of these writers came close to [TS]

00:40:52   it but if you take a look at a lot of [TS]

00:40:54   the x-men for example you've got some [TS]

00:40:56   very powerful female mutants and they're [TS]

00:40:58   all incredibly attractive and well [TS]

00:40:59   within like the normal parameters for [TS]

00:41:01   for the way women are supposed to look [TS]

00:41:03   you know they're all different [TS]

00:41:04   they feel a white look at bikini nicely [TS]

00:41:06   Emma or haha or even though they're just [TS]

00:41:10   adorable little mini dress Rachel [TS]

00:41:11   summers or or what have you [TS]

00:41:13   I can't we just say that Emma Frost is [TS]

00:41:15   basically just wearing lingerie now [TS]

00:41:17   she's even given up that [TS]

00:41:18   yeah treaties of it pants are for [TS]

00:41:20   suckers she says before because but [TS]

00:41:24   you've got somebody in she-hulk who is [TS]

00:41:26   basically this manifestation of you know [TS]

00:41:29   incredible uncompromising strength and [TS]

00:41:32   she falls a little bit outside the [TS]

00:41:33   parameters for attractiveness and you [TS]

00:41:35   burn makes her very attractive but he [TS]

00:41:37   also makes it clear that she's something [TS]

00:41:38   of a physical freak [TS]

00:41:39   it's an interesting commentary on on how [TS]

00:41:42   strong women or or extremely strong [TS]

00:41:45   women outside the parameters of social [TS]

00:41:47   of social acceptance are viewed and [TS]

00:41:49   treated in society and the choices they [TS]

00:41:50   have in dealing with it and I'm kind of [TS]

00:41:54   relieved in a way that they actually [TS]

00:41:55   play this is a community thing instead [TS]

00:41:56   of you know a serious meditation on [TS]

00:41:58   limited power and strength and blur blur [TS]

00:41:59   blur but I i find it interesting that [TS]

00:42:03   that was she hulk you actually have the [TS]

00:42:04   opportunity to have a character that can [TS]

00:42:06   make people think for a minute about ok [TS]

00:42:09   maybe one of the reasons is difficult [TS]

00:42:10   for is because she isn't five-foot-six [TS]

00:42:12   and filling out a black spandex catsuit [TS]

00:42:15   light like a Roman row or anything like [TS]

00:42:17   that you know she's seven feet tall and [TS]

00:42:19   she's got you know 15 inch wide [TS]

00:42:21   shoulders and and she's bright green [TS]

00:42:23   here's here's what I'd say about shield [TS]

00:42:25   because i always have been impressed [TS]

00:42:27   that shield is a character that is it [TS]

00:42:31   she's a woman whose big and strong and [TS]

00:42:33   athletic and has muscles and yet is you [TS]

00:42:37   know always portrayed as having feminine [TS]

00:42:42   qualities to die and i think that's good [TS]

00:42:45   because you know you don't I honestly I [TS]

00:42:48   think you don't see a lot of for trails [TS]

00:42:49   of characters like that they they tend [TS]

00:42:51   to be you know even women superheroes [TS]

00:42:55   like you said they tend to be more [TS]

00:42:56   shaped like supermodels [TS]

00:42:58   yeah and and there's a tendency that if [TS]

00:43:01   they're not that they're you know that [TS]

00:43:03   they're not considered i'm not i'm not [TS]

00:43:06   actually saying what I think i'm about [TS]

00:43:08   to say which is that [TS]

00:43:09   yay big strong muscle eat all women can [TS]

00:43:12   be treated bisect but as sex objects in [TS]

00:43:15   the comics to woo [TS]

00:43:16   but there is something at this is [TS]

00:43:18   backward feminism I realize but it's [TS]

00:43:20   like you know just because she's strong [TS]

00:43:22   and has muscles and install it doesn't [TS]

00:43:24   she [TS]

00:43:24   siren is not desirable just mean that [TS]

00:43:26   she's not a woman and an end it and and [TS]

00:43:29   drip dresses like a woman in it and is [TS]

00:43:31   and this has feminine aspects too i [TS]

00:43:33   think that's kind of cool that her [TS]

00:43:35   femininity is still intact even though [TS]

00:43:37   she's big and strong [TS]

00:43:38   this is my problem with Marvel movies [TS]

00:43:40   and things like that that was he like [TS]

00:43:41   you take a look and see the x-men movies [TS]

00:43:43   and you've got these women who were all [TS]

00:43:44   obviously models before they became [TS]

00:43:46   actors with with the exception of Abby [TS]

00:43:47   Anakin and I just keep thinking these [TS]

00:43:51   people babies these women are supposed [TS]

00:43:52   to be going [TS]

00:43:53   up against you know like the US Army or [TS]

00:43:55   or this horde of angry mutants and [TS]

00:43:58   they're all soft and willowy and super [TS]

00:43:59   good they can be snapped in half by a [TS]

00:44:01   pretzel stick which because they could [TS]

00:44:03   but yeah yeah yeah and you know what you [TS]

00:44:05   think about the Avengers is kind of the [TS]

00:44:07   same thing where I mean scarlett [TS]

00:44:08   johansson is is not exactly wave-like [TS]

00:44:10   and she feels that a black cap sit [TS]

00:44:12   nicely but she's not what she doesn't [TS]

00:44:16   look like something you know she's not [TS]

00:44:17   built like somebody who who obviously [TS]

00:44:19   spends a lot of their time breaking [TS]

00:44:21   people's snapping people's necks with [TS]

00:44:24   her thighs or whatever raise the black [TS]

00:44:25   was supposed to be able to do so the the [TS]

00:44:27   second series of the sensational Sherri [TS]

00:44:30   Colburn came back which is a issues 31 [TS]

00:44:33   through 50 they play on that a bit more [TS]

00:44:36   were essentially because of various [TS]

00:44:39   things happening in issues g ends up [TS]

00:44:41   being naked in a lot of them and most of [TS]

00:44:43   the time turns to burnish I don't care [TS]

00:44:45   how many more copies this is going to [TS]

00:44:46   sell [TS]

00:44:47   yeah I i had not doing it including the [TS]

00:44:49   cover of issue 40 what you're looking at [TS]

00:44:51   right now has heard naked on the cover [TS]

00:44:53   but she's sort of covering herself up [TS]

00:44:55   with the comics code Authority label [TS]

00:44:57   funny and burns hand is coming in from [TS]

00:45:00   off-screen holding a jump rope and she's [TS]

00:45:04   saying hey no you're kidding right look [TS]

00:45:06   if you say quit stalling we've got 22 [TS]

00:45:09   pages to fill all god that's funny i [TS]

00:45:11   just looked it up in the first six [TS]

00:45:14   phases Jess you can pick you up [TS]

00:45:16   apparently naked jen complaints a [TS]

00:45:18   respected superheroes being reduced this [TS]

00:45:19   due to a simple joke she made the [TS]

00:45:21   letters column all my lord mayor of the [TS]

00:45:24   Avengers it's it's a it gets pretty [TS]

00:45:28   funny [TS]

00:45:28   that's great and and then throw in the [TS]

00:45:31   shower after that [TS]

00:45:32   good lord busy great we've learned more [TS]

00:45:41   about the shithole [TS]

00:45:42   well yes that she's apparently allergic [TS]

00:45:46   to cards if your stomach is any [TS]

00:45:47   indication oh that's delightful she's [TS]

00:45:50   got the gamma induced metabolism that [TS]

00:45:52   just can't be [TS]

00:45:53   yeah i think the district's reading the [TS]

00:45:56   dance lot story now it feels a little [TS]

00:45:58   bit more dated to me in some ways like I [TS]

00:46:01   know you were saying that the burn stuff [TS]

00:46:02   feels very eighties [TS]

00:46:04   it looks very eighties but the writing [TS]

00:46:06   is not if that makes sense [TS]

00:46:07   yeah it's like when you watch them would [TS]

00:46:09   be singing in the rain it feels kind of [TS]

00:46:10   modern even though this very obviously [TS]

00:46:12   made the nineteen fifties its yeah [TS]

00:46:14   Andy's comics feel like home to me so [TS]

00:46:16   sure [TS]

00:46:17   so I i happen to like them but i think [TS]

00:46:19   that the burn series every now and [TS]

00:46:20   probably every three or four years I i [TS]

00:46:23   pick it up off the shelf and read it [TS]

00:46:24   again and enjoy it every time [TS]

00:46:26   oh yeah so should we move on and talk a [TS]

00:46:31   little bit about what we're reading [TS]

00:46:32   short I'm embarrassed to say I have i [TS]

00:46:35   don't think i've read much since the [TS]

00:46:36   last time we talked yes I I've read [TS]

00:46:39   something in the last time this is [TS]

00:46:41   really my excuse to say that i want to [TS]

00:46:43   thank you i think Jason for recommending [TS]

00:46:45   in our last comic book club recommending [TS]

00:46:47   Hawkeye oh yeah Matt Fraction yeah [TS]

00:46:52   you're liking it so let me let liking it [TS]

00:46:56   i have purchased and read every single [TS]

00:46:57   issue of it [TS]

00:46:59   yeah Matt Fraction Hawkeye the new [TS]

00:47:03   series for Marvel up to what is it now i [TS]

00:47:06   think i think it's up to issue a team [TS]

00:47:09   out [TS]

00:47:09   yeah I cannot begin to describe how much [TS]

00:47:14   i love Hawkeye and I you know that don't [TS]

00:47:19   you feel weird saying that are you [TS]

00:47:20   reading this on the ipad i am reading it [TS]

00:47:22   on the ipad i know it is a bizarre [TS]

00:47:24   statement i cannot Jason I can't believe [TS]

00:47:26   I'm even saying these words because it's [TS]

00:47:29   Hawkeye come on i remember in the West [TS]

00:47:31   Coast Avengers and bought with [TS]

00:47:34   Mockingbird and all that the Hawkeye [TS]

00:47:36   Matt Fraction series is so great it is [TS]

00:47:39   one of the best comics i have read in [TS]

00:47:42   the last decade [TS]

00:47:44   it is so great so i recommend to anybody [TS]

00:47:47   i think the first trade is coming out [TS]

00:47:50   this month next month soon yet i think [TS]

00:47:53   the first rates like next month order go [TS]

00:47:56   get it when I will get them or just or [TS]

00:47:58   just by the demon Marvel does a good job [TS]

00:47:59   with the discounting is older issues on [TS]

00:48:02   comixology so the older issues are like [TS]

00:48:04   199 or something like that [TS]

00:48:06   I i can't recommend it highly enough let [TS]

00:48:09   me count the ways I know Jason talked [TS]

00:48:11   about this a little bit too [TS]

00:48:13   in our last conquer club it you know the [TS]

00:48:16   idea is it's when he's not with [TS]

00:48:17   Avengers it's like dealing with problems [TS]

00:48:21   in his personal life and he's kind of [TS]

00:48:23   ammo piece kind of a kind of a schlub of [TS]

00:48:26   a guy other than that he's got his super [TS]

00:48:29   arrow powers and he only has the [TS]

00:48:31   superhero powers right so people can [TS]

00:48:33   like beat him up and unless he can shoot [TS]

00:48:34   him with an arrow there's not a lot he [TS]

00:48:36   can do and so it's his like personal [TS]

00:48:38   like almost every issue starts out with [TS]

00:48:40   him saying okay this looks bad and Renee [TS]

00:48:43   resolves what's going on that has led [TS]

00:48:46   him to this point the so story-wise it's [TS]

00:48:49   great because it's me it's their mundane [TS]

00:48:51   elements and then mixed in with kind of [TS]

00:48:53   crime and superhero elements so in the [TS]

00:48:54   first issue there is the these kind of [TS]

00:48:57   read Russian mobsters who are doing kind [TS]

00:49:00   of like a shakedown on the people in his [TS]

00:49:01   apartment building and there's a dog [TS]

00:49:05   that he's trying to take to the vet and [TS]

00:49:07   and it's a thing of beauty in the world [TS]

00:49:12   so so I love the story aspect of Hawkeye [TS]

00:49:15   but the other thing i want to talk about [TS]

00:49:16   is the is the the art and the design of [TS]

00:49:20   the comic because it's yeah and the [TS]

00:49:22   coloring it's amazing so the covers are [TS]

00:49:24   beautiful the covers are just i mean the [TS]

00:49:28   the covers alone are worth it because [TS]

00:49:30   they are these beautifully designed [TS]

00:49:32   images on these covers it's not like any [TS]

00:49:36   other comic cover you're going to see [TS]

00:49:37   and then the way the issues are built [TS]

00:49:40   the the style of the art style the [TS]

00:49:43   panels are a lot of blocky panel sort of [TS]

00:49:44   like you know three rows of three that [TS]

00:49:47   happy you get that a lot that the art [TS]

00:49:48   style is a little bit rough but but [TS]

00:49:51   really really nice in its own way and [TS]

00:49:54   and you've got to see it to understand [TS]

00:49:56   it but it's really very stylized and yet [TS]

00:50:00   really inviting and then the coloring is [TS]

00:50:03   the most amazing thing because Hawkeyes [TS]

00:50:05   a purple superhero right which can be [TS]

00:50:07   problematic not everybody likes purple [TS]

00:50:09   but the way this issue these comics are [TS]

00:50:11   colored is there in shades of purple [TS]

00:50:13   it's very monochromatic Lee colored [TS]

00:50:16   important as compact as old uniform [TS]

00:50:18   exactly and it's and it's and it's been [TS]

00:50:21   the color alone is so amazingly [TS]

00:50:24   beautiful and it's because of the [TS]

00:50:26   palette and and and the colors that get [TS]

00:50:28   chosen and and it's it doesn't look like [TS]

00:50:31   any comic that I've seen recently [TS]

00:50:33   certainly mainstream comic and that sort [TS]

00:50:35   of my bottom line about when I as I'm [TS]

00:50:36   raving about Hawkeye here is that this [TS]

00:50:38   is a marvel comic said in the marvel [TS]

00:50:40   universe with a character who's in the [TS]

00:50:42   Avengers which is the number one Marvel [TS]

00:50:44   property right now and it reads like an [TS]

00:50:47   indie comic about sort of you know again [TS]

00:50:51   satirizing things on the edge of [TS]

00:50:53   superhero tropes it never feels like [TS]

00:50:55   it's not taking its its characters and [TS]

00:50:58   situations seriously you know it's not a [TS]

00:51:00   self it's not a parody but it's very [TS]

00:51:03   knowing about all those tropes and it's [TS]

00:51:06   trying to tell some interesting stories [TS]

00:51:07   out on the edges and I'm kind of amazed [TS]

00:51:10   that it's being published by Marvel [TS]

00:51:12   because that's an act of confidence in [TS]

00:51:14   that fraction but it's it is it really [TS]

00:51:19   is astounding i was i was blown away [TS]

00:51:21   when i started to read because it was [TS]

00:51:22   not what I expected and it in it and [TS]

00:51:25   it's good in so many on so many [TS]

00:51:26   different axes it's good in art and [TS]

00:51:28   color and story and dialogue the [TS]

00:51:31   dialogue is laugh-out-loud funny i had [TS]

00:51:33   to read dialogue from the comic to my [TS]

00:51:36   wife because she was looking at me like [TS]

00:51:38   why are you laughing so hard at because [TS]

00:51:40   just the dialogue is funny so you know [TS]

00:51:43   again I can't say if you're if you're [TS]

00:51:44   somebody who likes comics good comics [TS]

00:51:46   you should you should read this matt [TS]

00:51:48   fraction Hawkeye because it's it's a [TS]

00:51:50   really really good comics oh thank you [TS]

00:51:53   Jason for recommending it I I took your [TS]

00:51:55   recommendation and checked it out and [TS]

00:51:57   then I could have stopped because it its [TS]

00:51:58   it's yeah it's great it's it's shocking [TS]

00:52:02   how good you would never imagine that a [TS]

00:52:04   comic about Hawkeye would be that good [TS]

00:52:06   yeah it's great it's beautiful it and in [TS]

00:52:09   the storytelling isn't isn't always [TS]

00:52:10   linear which is also nice that a lot of [TS]

00:52:12   coming back and forth it's not it's not [TS]

00:52:14   a dumb comments a very smart comment [TS]

00:52:16   that requires attention and and is very [TS]

00:52:19   rewarding it's yeah it's really good so [TS]

00:52:23   excited about this guy yes you couldn't [TS]

00:52:25   believe you're excited about Hawkeye but [TS]

00:52:27   there you are right side pocket [TS]

00:52:29   I like to meet again this is my team I [TS]

00:52:31   like him in the ultimates [TS]

00:52:33   I like the way they run the ultimate [TS]

00:52:35   essentially now the marvel universe is [TS]

00:52:37   what they did in the ultimate [TS]

00:52:38   practically Yeah Yeah right down to Nick [TS]

00:52:39   Fury jr. right now is just Nick Fury [TS]

00:52:42   except black and looks like Samuel [TS]

00:52:44   Jackson it's really disconcerting [TS]

00:52:47   actually to go back to the the ultimate [TS]

00:52:49   books that they wrote back before they [TS]

00:52:52   started making all the Marvel movies it [TS]

00:52:54   and realize how the Nick Fury character [TS]

00:52:56   doesn't doesn't look like Sam Jackson [TS]

00:52:58   and then when you see him play dive at [TS]

00:53:00   the time I sort of mix them up my hands [TS]

00:53:02   like but why does the comic not like [TS]

00:53:04   samuel l jackson to put depending on on [TS]

00:53:07   the portrayal of my understanding is [TS]

00:53:08   that the nick fury and ultimate was they [TS]

00:53:10   actually called Samuel Jackson up and [TS]

00:53:12   said you know would you like to be in a [TS]

00:53:14   comic because we've got this ultimate [TS]

00:53:16   experience we wanted to look like you [TS]

00:53:18   and he was like that's awesome yeah [TS]

00:53:20   semi comics I believe he's actually got [TS]

00:53:22   a couple of the layout pages frame that [TS]

00:53:24   was yeah the Apocrypha that I had heard [TS]

00:53:26   that the artist yeah it's it's not quite [TS]

00:53:29   an exact you know you don't go there [TS]

00:53:32   there's a vague resemblance to sam [TS]

00:53:33   jackson in the early ultimate stuff and [TS]

00:53:36   ultimate spider-man he's a he's a dead [TS]

00:53:38   ringer I thought in the ultimate she was [TS]

00:53:40   a dead ringer too and not quite as much [TS]

00:53:42   i went back and looked at it I found the [TS]

00:53:44   books and dug them out and looked at him [TS]

00:53:46   again just like in my head I remember [TS]

00:53:48   Thor looking more like Brad Pitt in [TS]

00:53:50   there but no more likely a brad Pitt in [TS]

00:53:53   a try [TS]

00:53:53   yeah there are a lot of shots of him [TS]

00:53:55   like that I i think what happened is [TS]

00:53:57   that you know he looked like the idea of [TS]

00:53:59   if Samuel Jackson was nick fury and then [TS]

00:54:02   Samuel Jackson became actual Nick Fury [TS]

00:54:05   and now so it's by a different standard [TS]

00:54:08   now that we've seen him exactly actually [TS]

00:54:10   being hearing as opposed to just like [TS]

00:54:12   hey that's kinda like if what is samuel [TS]

00:54:15   l jackson with Nick Fury well now he is [TS]

00:54:17   actually is it wrong to say Samuel [TS]

00:54:19   Jackson's little bit more heavy set then [TS]

00:54:21   he appears as nick fury in the comics [TS]

00:54:23   that maybe you know that was a long time [TS]

00:54:24   ago he was 10 years younger back then [TS]

00:54:27   he's got fatter facetime well he's won [TS]

00:54:30   16 but he's still yeah he's still Sam [TS]

00:54:32   Jackson so you know he's still just [TS]

00:54:34   peaceful Nick Fury yeah so Lisa what are [TS]

00:54:36   you reading [TS]

00:54:37   I went and read the rebooted Ultimates [TS]

00:54:39   haha that i read the first two trade [TS]

00:54:42   paperbacks and what I really liked about [TS]

00:54:46   them was a reed richards supervillain [TS]

00:54:48   yep i also enjoy the floor appears to be [TS]

00:54:51   losing his mind but and i also enjoyed [TS]

00:54:57   the Tony Stark has a sentient brain [TS]

00:54:59   tumor that he talks to no no no it's [TS]

00:55:02   it's it's it's good that they're [TS]

00:55:04   sticking with that because that was how [TS]

00:55:05   they introduced ultimate iron man was [TS]

00:55:06   that he was dying and he was from doing [TS]

00:55:08   things as sort of part of his it's kind [TS]

00:55:11   of like well whatever I got nothing to [TS]

00:55:12   lose and I and then the net and then [TS]

00:55:14   they were like well maybe not [TS]

00:55:17   not really but i don't think that [TS]

00:55:19   it'sit's I don't know if it's just a [TS]

00:55:22   question of that mälaren hitch [TS]

00:55:25   I'm not this time oh no this is the [TS]

00:55:28   right this is the reason you ultimate [TS]

00:55:29   comics right yeah this is the reboot [TS]

00:55:31   that was that was published fairly [TS]

00:55:33   recently after the weird and cataclysmic [TS]

00:55:35   events that closed out the Ultimate [TS]

00:55:37   Universe the last time up to and [TS]

00:55:39   including the lost being eaten by the [TS]

00:55:41   blob and other end and that Christianity [TS]

00:55:43   many many people drowning inexplicably [TS]

00:55:46   and bit with it you know honestly the [TS]

00:55:50   end of that reminded me of like what [TS]

00:55:52   happens when a bunch of eight-year-olds [TS]

00:55:53   have gotten really tired of playing GI [TS]

00:55:55   Joe yes has to go home I don't like what [TS]

00:55:57   we need to wrap this up you know yet [TS]

00:55:59   exactly [TS]

00:56:00   uh-huh okay Jonathan Hickman looks like [TS]

00:56:03   so yeah and it's not like the writing is [TS]

00:56:05   bad it's it's a really nice tight story [TS]

00:56:08   and there's enough hooks in there that [TS]

00:56:09   will let maintain momentum and so on and [TS]

00:56:11   so forth but i don't know if it's just [TS]

00:56:13   because I've already read through one [TS]

00:56:15   ultimate series that I'm like a you know [TS]

00:56:16   the Shocker rebooter who the shock of [TS]

00:56:18   putting these characters in slightly [TS]

00:56:19   different context um there isn't the [TS]

00:56:22   same that's there isn't the same [TS]

00:56:24   prasanna of of surprise or intrigue it's [TS]

00:56:27   just kind of again you kind of get the [TS]

00:56:29   feeling that it's a bunch of people [TS]

00:56:30   playing with the little characters and [TS]

00:56:31   oh wouldn't it be funny if if or loses [TS]

00:56:34   his mind after Valhalla is sucked it is [TS]

00:56:37   is sucked into Reed Richards magic space [TS]

00:56:39   city [TS]

00:56:40   the original Ultimates felt like [TS]

00:56:42   something really different that we [TS]

00:56:44   haven't seen before right but it was [TS]

00:56:45   like busy this isn't the Avengers it's [TS]

00:56:47   the ultimate sand it's a very different [TS]

00:56:49   conception and now it sort of feels like [TS]

00:56:52   it's the Avengers this the originals had [TS]

00:56:54   this almost as realpolitik going on with [TS]

00:56:56   yes where are these people weren't [TS]

00:56:57   exactly superheroes they were people who [TS]

00:57:00   happen to be on the right side of [TS]

00:57:02   history of the right side of politics at [TS]

00:57:04   the time being something almost kind of [TS]

00:57:06   sinister about it's a government kind of [TS]

00:57:07   setup and and and we're gonna hate it [TS]

00:57:10   it's very much if you go back and read [TS]

00:57:12   those malhar hitch ultimate series is [TS]

00:57:16   it's a it feels very much more in [TS]

00:57:20   Afghanistan HW Bush president at the [TS]

00:57:24   time it's it's it's of its time the same [TS]

00:57:26   way where if you go back and read their [TS]

00:57:29   their take on the authority that's it's [TS]

00:57:31   pretty much you could read those [TS]

00:57:33   back-to-back basic yeah you're right [TS]

00:57:35   actually I'm follow that you're exactly [TS]

00:57:37   right and and this time out it's got [TS]

00:57:40   more money to feeling to it and it feels [TS]

00:57:42   a little franchise ready if that makes [TS]

00:57:44   sense like as they like this they do it [TS]

00:57:47   you could tell they were already kind of [TS]

00:57:48   mentally cast in the movie or or how [TS]

00:57:49   they could change this changes into [TS]

00:57:51   movie treatment so I'm not sorry I read [TS]

00:57:53   the books but i'm not sure i'm going to [TS]

00:57:55   be continued with consideration and I [TS]

00:57:59   got a bunch of nonfiction graphic novels [TS]

00:58:01   for Christmas so i'm probably gonna be [TS]

00:58:02   diving into those next to read the [TS]

00:58:04   record time if you haven't yet i should [TS]

00:58:08   it's on my wrist it's on my wishes i [TS]

00:58:09   love i love that book so much we're [TS]

00:58:11   gonna we're gonna do that was broadcast [TS]

00:58:12   you need to i'm really good for about 14 [TS]

00:58:15   kind of afraid of it because i really [TS]

00:58:16   love the novel so much I mean that was [TS]

00:58:18   one of the formative most of my [TS]

00:58:19   childhood I'm kind of afraid to see what [TS]

00:58:21   they're going to do with it because if [TS]

00:58:22   they get it wrong i'm just gonna cut [TS]

00:58:23   somebody I think it's a I think it's [TS]

00:58:26   incredibly faithful so but you know it [TS]

00:58:29   she does have to envision what those [TS]

00:58:32   things look like but I think she did a [TS]

00:58:33   really good job to you should you should [TS]

00:58:34   check that out because i wanna i want to [TS]

00:58:35   do a episode about the book and the [TS]

00:58:39   graphic novel in a few min max three [TS]

00:58:41   months what I've started reading is AD [TS]

00:58:43   New Orleans after the delusion deluge by [TS]

00:58:45   Josh new field and it's a work of it [TS]

00:58:48   sits up a nonfiction graphic novel about [TS]

00:58:51   the Diaspora out of new orleans at [TS]

00:58:53   katrina and it's really quite good he [TS]

00:58:56   does a lot of really nice work with [TS]

00:58:58   color to help you follow through [TS]

00:58:59   people's narrative so you can see the [TS]

00:59:00   common threads through people's [TS]

00:59:02   experiences so you can keep track what's [TS]

00:59:04   happening to people is there either [TS]

00:59:05   trapped in the Superdome or their [TS]

00:59:07   flooded out their own building or [TS]

00:59:09   they're hitting hitting the backgrounds [TS]

00:59:11   trying desperately to get the area it's [TS]

00:59:15   not a light read so it's not something i [TS]

00:59:16   recommend you read after a bad day at [TS]

00:59:18   work along there what have you but it's [TS]

00:59:20   it's definitely something i'm enjoying [TS]

00:59:21   reading into small chunks and putting it [TS]

00:59:23   all together we're almost at a time but [TS]

00:59:26   I have to ask Jason Brackman because he [TS]

00:59:27   blew me away last time with Hawkeye what [TS]

00:59:29   Jason what are you reading [TS]

00:59:31   so it's interesting that lisa is reading [TS]

00:59:34   The Ultimates by hickman which I [TS]

00:59:37   actually found pretty disappointing [TS]

00:59:38   because my ticket book i'm reading now [TS]

00:59:41   that i'm really liking is that the new [TS]

00:59:43   series of adventures by hickman are and [TS]

00:59:48   if you read his fantastic four run which [TS]

00:59:50   was spent which was fantastic it it was [TS]

00:59:55   cosmic an epic and he's really great at [TS]

00:59:57   those cosmic kind of stories and I [TS]

00:59:58   thought oh how is he gonna do with that [TS]

00:59:58   thought oh how is he gonna do with that [TS]

01:00:00   jurors that's not to be they're not very [TS]

01:00:01   cosmic but he's got a cosmic story going [TS]

01:00:04   on adventures now that's blowing me away [TS]

01:00:06   with how great it is there an issue 6 or [TS]

01:00:11   7 or I think seven just came out today [TS]

01:00:13   and they're playing to my 80s nostalgia [TS]

01:00:17   and bringing back the new universe which [TS]

01:00:21   was the big Marvel 25th anniversary [TS]

01:00:24   thing in 1987 that they did but doing it [TS]

01:00:28   really really interesting way huh so [TS]

01:00:33   it's it's the the new series essentially [TS]

01:00:35   starts out with Tony Stark and Steve [TS]

01:00:39   Rogers having a conversation about the [TS]

01:00:41   world is is bigger and more complicated [TS]

01:00:43   and the threats are bigger and so the [TS]

01:00:45   Avengers have to get bigger and so now [TS]

01:00:49   they invite everybody on to the Avenger [TS]

01:00:51   so it's got like cannonball and sunspot [TS]

01:00:53   from the new mr. on the Avengers and all [TS]

01:00:57   these characters are never seen before [TS]

01:00:59   or on the Avengers and they're fighting [TS]

01:01:01   this big epic cosmic stuff but just like [TS]

01:01:06   he did in fantastic four he's having a [TS]

01:01:08   lot of these kind of one-off stories [TS]

01:01:10   which substantially are kind of like [TS]

01:01:14   character origins to make you more [TS]

01:01:16   familiar with some of these characters [TS]

01:01:16   like captain universe and the protector [TS]

01:01:20   that you may not be familiar with you [TS]

01:01:22   some captain universe by the way you [TS]

01:01:24   remember comic introduce captain [TS]

01:01:26   universe was listen micro not it with [TS]

01:01:28   michael's number eight in fact so [TS]

01:01:30   they're hot boom boom [TS]

01:01:31   so there's a new captain universe in [TS]

01:01:33   this and she's awesome and crazy but the [TS]

01:01:38   they keep doing these kind of one [TS]

01:01:40   character vignettes in has an issue but [TS]

01:01:43   you know that like what's being talked [TS]

01:01:45   about in there will be like super [TS]

01:01:47   important seven or eight issues from now [TS]

01:01:49   because it's kind of the way hickman [TS]

01:01:50   works so this is this plotter called [TS]

01:01:53   Avengers world because that's the name [TS]

01:01:54   of the trade that's coming out next [TS]

01:01:55   month [TS]

01:01:56   yes yes it's just the i'm a big fan of [TS]

01:02:01   the universe from the mid-eighties for [TS]

01:02:04   what they try to do and then a couple [TS]

01:02:05   years ago Warren Ellis tried to do a [TS]

01:02:07   reboot reboot of that called new [TS]

01:02:09   universal and so hickman is picking up [TS]

01:02:12   on ideas from New [TS]

01:02:13   universal and and the original series [TS]

01:02:18   and it feels very much like the aspects [TS]

01:02:22   of the authority that I liked and we've [TS]

01:02:24   talked about this already on the podcast [TS]

01:02:26   before our planetary it has a lot of [TS]

01:02:28   like there's a bigger systems thing [TS]

01:02:30   happening in the universe and it [TS]

01:02:34   what's going on now in the Avengers is [TS]

01:02:36   the system is broken into me it's kind [TS]

01:02:39   of very intriguing in cosmic and [TS]

01:02:40   interesting and i'm eating it up [TS]

01:02:44   alright cool i'll check it out it's not [TS]

01:02:48   gonna be good to talk about i'll check [TS]

01:02:50   new but actually if you like Hawkeye you [TS]

01:02:52   may want to check out matt fraction in [TS]

01:02:55   and Ed Brubaker work together on Iron [TS]

01:03:00   Fist yeah and it got very much in like [TS]

01:03:03   Hawkeye pushes it further into he's just [TS]

01:03:05   a slept kind of story but a lot of the [TS]

01:03:09   nice things about Hawkeye are in those [TS]

01:03:11   iron man series and only the first two [TS]

01:03:14   trades alright have that and then they [TS]

01:03:16   go in a different direction and it it it [TS]

01:03:20   reads much more like a nineteen [TS]

01:03:21   seventies confu story so it has a [TS]

01:03:25   different vibe but there's a lot of [TS]

01:03:26   similarities to the Hawkeye beyond that [TS]

01:03:28   the running gag in and Hawkeye is that [TS]

01:03:31   he keeps being mistaken for iron fist [TS]

01:03:33   haha where you that iron fist kind no [TS]

01:03:36   I'm not [TS]

01:03:37   uh-huh right but i think the artist is [TS]

01:03:40   the same yeah i think it's Sam yeah Sam [TS]

01:03:42   yeah it has a nice by but I i love the [TS]

01:03:44   Iron Fist series and i love the Hawkeye [TS]

01:03:46   series even more and it is where to say [TS]

01:03:48   i love Hawkeye not okay with that [TS]

01:03:51   yeah it's a great comic great comic all [TS]

01:03:54   right I think we've reached the end of [TS]

01:03:56   our are a lot of time for this comic [TS]

01:03:58   book club will be back with another [TS]

01:04:00   comic book club soon although we're [TS]

01:04:02   going to figure out what we're going to [TS]

01:04:04   talk about so we'll do that I that [TS]

01:04:07   that's a good question we had she-hulk [TS]

01:04:09   kind of sitting on the back burner for a [TS]

01:04:10   few months i'm glad we finally got her [TS]

01:04:12   out at the law firm and into the podcast [TS]

01:04:14   so until our next episode of the [TS]

01:04:18   uncomfortable i would like to thank my [TS]

01:04:19   comic book club members Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

01:04:21   thanks for being here [TS]

01:04:22   it was a pleasure as always and jason [TS]

01:04:26   reitman thank you thank you [TS]

01:04:28   alright well thanks to everybody out [TS]

01:04:29   there for listening to the uncomfortable [TS]

01:04:31   again and another comic book club until [TS]

01:04:33   next time this is jason snow [TS]

01:04:35   bye-bye [TS]