Roderick on the Line

Ep. 279: "Mr. Hot Tub"


01:00:00   he's definitely shaking and when I saw [TS]

01:00:02   them in 1999 I thought it was just [TS]

01:00:03   terrific there there was a there's a [TS]

01:00:08   famous moment indelibly burned into my [TS]

01:00:10   head of us on tour with Death Cab in 98 [TS]

01:00:19   hurricane hurricane and we're in Arizona [TS]

01:00:24   we're at a show in you know like at at [TS]

01:00:28   some strip mall in Phoenix and death [TS]

01:00:34   cabs on stage and it's not a stage right [TS]

01:00:37   it's like a cement floor dais [TS]

01:00:40   yeah where they took the PA or they took [TS]

01:00:42   the they took like your practice PA but [TS]

01:00:45   they turned it around to the audience [TS]

01:00:46   and we're we're there watching them play [TS]

01:00:50   and their merch guy a guy named little [TS]

01:00:53   Rob everybody just called him little Rob [TS]

01:00:56   Li L he starts to do the Ben Gibbard [TS]

01:01:03   guitar dance and you know we're at weird [TS]

01:01:09   view of the stage and he's just [TS]

01:01:11   perfectly but he's not even looking at [TS]

01:01:14   the stage he's got his back to them but [TS]

01:01:17   he's just perfectly doing that that [TS]

01:01:20   thing that you're describing like [TS]

01:01:22   shuffle swing it is like he's spent [TS]

01:01:26   slightly back and his shoulders are [TS]

01:01:28   moving in compliment with the way that [TS]

01:01:30   his hips are moving with a very wide [TS]

01:01:32   open posture mm-hmm and the guitar is a [TS]

01:01:35   component of it and it's yeah it's like [TS]

01:01:38   it's like Elvis if you left all the [TS]

01:01:41   hangers in this in his suits and and and [TS]

01:01:46   it's just like we all from that point on [TS]

01:01:49   we all tried to perfect [TS]

01:01:51   after seeing will Rob do such a great [TS]

01:01:53   job of it we all try to perfect our Ben [TS]

01:01:55   Gibbard dance and I think there's I [TS]

01:01:58   think I'll I'll hop into it once or [TS]

01:02:00   twice during a set just it just is a [TS]

01:02:03   little homage or the tip of the hat to a [TS]

01:02:06   little kind of like one two one two [TS]

01:02:09   I think I think that the the music video [TS]

01:02:12   for flock of seagulls the the first two [TS]

01:02:14   videos they caused such a sensation [TS]

01:02:16   because of that guy's hair yeah that it [TS]

01:02:19   he's remembered for having the swoopy [TS]

01:02:21   hair from the second video but in the [TS]

01:02:22   first one oh god there's a phrase I [TS]

01:02:25   can't use anymore [TS]

01:02:25   um more art school hair one would say [TS]

01:02:29   and and yeah that meet me at McDonald's [TS]

01:02:32   kind of haircut he's got like the he's [TS]

01:02:33   got the swirly I can kind of up on top [TS]

01:02:35   and then you got the camera with the [TS]

01:02:36   garbage bag like garbage bags in that [TS]

01:02:38   video well that was a that was an easy [TS]

01:02:40   special effect to use in garbage bags [TS]

01:02:45   and then you take a couple of box fans [TS]

01:02:48   [Laughter] [TS]

01:02:52   [Music] [TS]

01:02:54   you can't see me doing this he's holding [TS]

01:02:56   down like like in like a probably an a [TS]

01:02:59   with one finger and then he's the other [TS]

01:03:02   fingers way up in the air but there's [TS]

01:03:10   been that had three great Tunes oh yes [TS]

01:03:13   this is love song is legitimately good [TS]

01:03:15   song but they're like not in that [TS]

01:03:17   they're not thought of in that serious [TS]

01:03:20   rank of 80s you know they're those songs [TS]

01:03:22   are as good as any Gary Numan tune oh I [TS]

01:03:25   see yeah yeah I get what you're saying [TS]

01:03:27   yeah yeah we're like there was this this [TS]

01:03:29   Rat King of like especially English like [TS]

01:03:31   new wave bands and New Romantic bands [TS]

01:03:33   and like some of them are much it's much [TS]

01:03:36   cooler to still like this band than that [TS]

01:03:38   band I mean it's hard I mean you know [TS]

01:03:41   soft-sell was serious but Culture Club [TS]

01:03:46   was not and it's a little and it has a [TS]

01:03:49   lot to do with hair style that I think [TS]

01:03:52   now maybe even now with the [TS]

01:03:54   proliferation Altima proliferation of [TS]

01:03:57   images that we have I think you would be [TS]

01:04:02   less influenced by how a band looked [TS]

01:04:05   then we were in 1983 watching those [TS]

01:04:08   music videos discount something that is [TS]

01:04:11   a third rail but should be discussed at [TS]

01:04:14   least living in Florida I am NOT proud [TS]

01:04:16   of this by a longshot but there was also [TS]

01:04:18   a lot of consideration about [TS]

01:04:22   I don't know how to use this word [TS]

01:04:24   whether they seemed gay and I don't mean [TS]

01:04:27   that they they like people of the same [TS]

01:04:29   gender [TS]

01:04:29   sexually I just meant they're people [TS]

01:04:32   like the people who are listening to [TS]

01:04:33   Lynyrd Skynyrd would see that you were [TS]

01:04:35   into mark almond and that seemed kind of [TS]

01:04:36   gay and I think I think that had a huge [TS]

01:04:39   effect in a lot of ways even with like [TS]

01:04:42   Duran Duran like you like oh these guys [TS]

01:04:43   are so fruity and that was you'd feel [TS]

01:04:46   like a little East I felt like a little [TS]

01:04:47   twinge of like oh I don't know if it's [TS]

01:04:48   okay to be into this Dan because they're [TS]

01:04:50   not tough and cool which is weird [TS]

01:04:52   considering that Bon Jovi you know like [TS]

01:04:56   there's an awful lot of signaling in Bon [TS]

01:05:00   Jovi that is directed at you know it's [TS]

01:05:04   like the the transition that bands made [TS]

01:05:07   to because I mean even Van Halen [TS]

01:05:10   absolutely in the mid 70s you know [TS]

01:05:12   there's that famous story where van [TS]

01:05:15   Halen played like big day out in Texas [TS]

01:05:18   where all the other bands were Molly [TS]

01:05:21   Hatchet and ZZ Top and it was they [TS]

01:05:25   probably seemed everybody but Mike [TS]

01:05:26   probably seems very androgynous for the [TS]

01:05:28   time well it freaked him out the people [TS]

01:05:31   the folks in Texas who were just like [TS]

01:05:32   that rock and roll concert and it was [TS]

01:05:35   like everybody else was in denim and [TS]

01:05:37   cowboy boots right and out comes van [TS]

01:05:39   Halen just like yeah yeah you know it's [TS]

01:05:49   very very like unapologetically [TS]

01:05:51   California at the very least but I do [TS]

01:05:54   think there was also I mean music was so [TS]

01:05:58   it was so siloed the difference between [TS]

01:06:02   a band that was for girls and for boys [TS]

01:06:05   was really big for me like I had a [TS]

01:06:10   really hard this is one of the things [TS]

01:06:12   one of the reasons that I never got into [TS]

01:06:15   the Smiths was I just felt like the [TS]

01:06:17   Smiths was my sister's band and that [TS]

01:06:21   style of singing in that style of [TS]

01:06:23   looking and that style of being was [TS]

01:06:27   pandering to girls and it wasn't serious [TS]

01:06:31   it wasn't like serious minded because it [TS]

01:06:35   was so true [TS]

01:06:36   parents to me that it was meant to make [TS]

01:06:40   teenage girls cry and I could I was just [TS]

01:06:45   not in and it might have been a hundred [TS]

01:06:47   percent different if I had known one [TS]

01:06:49   person who said this is really serious [TS]

01:06:52   music but as it was it was just like it [TS]

01:06:56   just felt it felt like the Smiths were [TS]

01:07:01   pandering were like a were an extension [TS]

01:07:03   of Duran Duran right you think you think [TS]

01:07:06   about like Paul Young would be one you [TS]

01:07:08   already know Culture Club Paul Young but [TS]

01:07:11   you know Paul Young had some really some [TS]

01:07:12   some pretty like was a song I don't you [TS]

01:07:15   come back and like he had some really [TS]

01:07:17   good pop songs and he did that that [TS]

01:07:19   weird Joy Division cover but you're [TS]

01:07:22   right there were there were ones that [TS]

01:07:23   felt like there were bands for boys and [TS]

01:07:24   pants for girls right you know like [TS]

01:07:26   that's Steely Dan being an extreme [TS]

01:07:28   example but yeah I totally agree but [TS]

01:07:33   like now when you look back like there [TS]

01:07:34   do seem to be these bands that like in [TS]

01:07:36   retrospect I think a huge one that [TS]

01:07:38   nobody talks about much is like screw D [TS]

01:07:39   politi but there are these bands that [TS]

01:07:41   age surprisingly well that like at the [TS]

01:07:44   time you might have thought oh this is [TS]

01:07:45   pretty pretty light light pop but you [TS]

01:07:47   know it does stand up we talked about [TS]

01:07:49   this once before was it here on another [TS]

01:07:51   show where I made this playlist of like [TS]

01:07:53   I'll put it in well we don't have chance [TS]

01:07:54   for the show I'll put it in anyway but [TS]

01:07:56   list of like a new wave that still [TS]

01:07:57   stands up in my opinion like where the [TS]

01:07:59   songs have good bones or where they were [TS]

01:08:01   doing something that was new and [TS]

01:08:03   substantial like I think there's there's [TS]

01:08:05   still so much stuff from there but [TS]

01:08:06   you're right that the gender stuff and [TS]

01:08:08   the sexual politics stuff was was giant [TS]

01:08:10   I mean like you're not gonna want the [TS]

01:08:13   time you could not be a straight guy in [TS]

01:08:15   Florida who was really into Tom Robinson [TS]

01:08:16   band publicly like that was not gonna [TS]

01:08:18   happen [TS]

01:08:19   haircut 100 is an example of a band that [TS]

01:08:22   was really very very very put together [TS]

01:08:27   that's that a lot going on like stuff [TS]

01:08:30   going on totally but like a but but yeah [TS]

01:08:34   there were a million reasons why you [TS]

01:08:35   would look at that and say that's a band [TS]

01:08:37   for girls absolutely in fact it was like [TS]

01:08:40   there were even then like I was really [TS]

01:08:43   into the song so you know there was [TS]

01:08:45   always it was always like a [TS]

01:08:49   you could go either way and I think I [TS]

01:08:51   always even when flock of seagulls was [TS]

01:08:53   the most reviled I could not get away [TS]

01:08:57   from the power of their hooks I always [TS]

01:09:00   what they were doing I mean they were [TS]

01:09:02   doing what they intended to do very well [TS]

01:09:04   you know here's another one I'm just [TS]

01:09:06   gonna send it I don't know I'm not sure [TS]

01:09:08   what the critical reputation at this [TS]

01:09:09   point is this is as much - Trevor Horn [TS]

01:09:11   as anybody but go back and listen to the [TS]

01:09:13   title song from the look of love by ABC [TS]

01:09:15   that's a look that's the look the look [TS]

01:09:17   of love is such a very finely crafted [TS]

01:09:20   and executed pop song it's it's got [TS]

01:09:23   parts it's got hooks and hooks and more [TS]

01:09:25   hooks it's it's just it's it's such a [TS]

01:09:27   beautiful I don't say a masterpiece but [TS]

01:09:29   it's such a piece of work as a pop song [TS]

01:09:31   I know it I know it's probably true but [TS]

01:09:34   I could ABC was in my list of no thank [TS]

01:09:37   you [TS]

01:09:38   right right over there with men without [TS]

01:09:39   hats I didn't want either thing and it [TS]

01:09:45   didn't matter how much you you said like [TS]

01:09:48   ABC they're amazing because I knew they [TS]

01:09:49   were even then you could tell that they [TS]

01:09:51   were like dynamite yeah but I can't tell [TS]

01:09:55   me how Hollywood another Trevor Horn [TS]

01:10:02   joint loved Frankie just the honking [TS]

01:10:05   this cuz that was just a little bit [TS]

01:10:07   later that was like what 84 85 well no [TS]

01:10:09   because Frankie had so much attitude [TS]

01:10:12   they said relax and it felt like [TS]

01:10:15   watching them at least felt like a like [TS]

01:10:18   a gang like Adam in the ants right where [TS]

01:10:20   Frankie him Frankie and they seemed is [TS]

01:10:22   he dangerous fouling the neighborhood [TS]

01:10:26   but they were also like super [TS]

01:10:28   unapologetically gay and openly gay in a [TS]

01:10:30   way that was aggressively gay that took [TS]

01:10:33   that was like headline-grabbing mmm-hmm [TS]

01:10:36   and it just felt like yeah fuck you [TS]

01:10:37   that's right goddamn right and I just [TS]

01:10:39   felt like their Tunes were were I mean [TS]

01:10:43   it's hard to say they were I mean the [TS]

01:10:45   truth is like again Trevor Horn like the [TS]

01:10:47   stuff that that guy has done for for [TS]

01:10:49   bands is you know in that case I mean [TS]

01:10:51   nothing against the Frankie Goes to [TS]

01:10:53   Hollywood band there they're very [TS]

01:10:54   interesting they had a great look but [TS]

01:10:55   like their songs we're not particularly [TS]

01:10:57   substantial but like they have to say [TS]

01:10:59   that a great sound that a great sound [TS]

01:11:02   and they and that's exactly that that's [TS]

01:11:04   right the sound was great like the way [TS]

01:11:06   that the way that their big hit kind of [TS]

01:11:10   trails off at the end was the last thing [TS]

01:11:12   you hear is like sounds of files and the [TS]

01:11:14   sound of miles ABBA [TS]

01:11:15   Babbitt did like two tribes I'm not sure [TS]

01:11:19   two tribes necessarily hangs together as [TS]

01:11:22   a great political statement but like it [TS]

01:11:24   was so big it was so big right if you [TS]

01:11:27   sat down and tried to play it on the [TS]

01:11:28   acoustic guitar I don't seven-inch of an [TS]

01:11:42   emotions obsession obsession [TS]

01:11:45   I bought the 7-inch and everything about [TS]

01:11:48   it like at that point in my life there [TS]

01:11:51   is no way I should have bought the [TS]

01:11:52   7-inch of that record because I hated [TS]

01:11:55   that music video they're freaky they're [TS]

01:11:57   I mean they're like there's something [TS]

01:11:59   wrong can be pretty campy but but even [TS]

01:12:01   the way they're looking at you that the [TS]

01:12:02   camera is just like no no no don't [TS]

01:12:04   invite those people into your house but [TS]

01:12:06   put the tune I just really liked it and [TS]

01:12:10   I couldn't I couldn't explain it I [TS]

01:12:12   wouldn't defend it it's very catchy yeah [TS]

01:12:15   I never would have told a friend that I [TS]

01:12:17   had it towed up Berlin pleasure and pre [TS]

01:12:20   pre pre top gun pleasure victim era [TS]

01:12:24   Berlin one of the great bands they had [TS]

01:12:27   that ep I think was an EP with the sex [TS]

01:12:31   i'ma song on it and then they had [TS]

01:12:33   pleasure victim I think masquerade is a [TS]

01:12:36   very good song I think I think that is [TS]

01:12:38   before its time that was some very [TS]

01:12:39   strong music it's super strong and the [TS]

01:12:42   thing about it is that whole record I'm [TS]

01:12:46   talking about when this is this is way [TS]

01:12:50   way not we're not talking about the the [TS]

01:12:54   Top Gun [TS]

01:12:54   version of Berlin that still seems like [TS]

01:12:58   it feels like years after I stopped [TS]

01:13:00   listening to Berlin but I guess it was [TS]

01:13:02   like a year after I was really into [TS]

01:13:04   Berlin but that the their record love [TS]

01:13:06   life which came out in 84 but which I [TS]

01:13:09   didn't wanna get into until 80 [TS]

01:13:13   seven even that record and it's the one [TS]

01:13:18   that has no more words oh that's a good [TS]

01:13:20   song but the whole record is good it's [TS]

01:13:24   just Oh dancing in Berlin that's a good [TS]

01:13:26   song yeah it's good it's just like a [TS]

01:13:28   major years wait so it's two years after [TS]

01:13:31   pleasure pleasure if it comes 1982 dude [TS]

01:13:34   no oh the metro oh my god [TS]

01:13:38   I remember hating you for loving me that [TS]

01:13:42   what that was as influential on me as [TS]

01:13:44   cars by Gary Numan I mean I know for me [TS]

01:13:47   or for me Adam in the ants these like [TS]

01:13:48   just unabashedly melodramatic songs I [TS]

01:13:51   just hate him with a spoon they sounded [TS]

01:13:54   like the future absolutely that you know [TS]

01:13:57   because what was happening in metal at [TS]

01:13:59   that time was was that everybody had [TS]

01:14:02   gone to pentatonic or everybody had gone [TS]

01:14:05   to this idea this like this dead-end [TS]

01:14:09   idea that without what metal was gonna [TS]

01:14:11   be was classical music the classical [TS]

01:14:14   music of art and the new weight stuff [TS]

01:14:16   was definitely on point but it was it [TS]

01:14:18   was consolidating into something very [TS]

01:14:19   very tight and not particularly weird [TS]

01:14:22   but it was it was getting I mean like I [TS]

01:14:24   mean what do you say about iron made one [TS]

01:14:26   from that time like this stuff was [TS]

01:14:27   amazing it was amazing but it didn't [TS]

01:14:29   feel like the future right it felt like [TS]

01:14:33   a height of what had happened before and [TS]

01:14:35   so like it was it was still connected to [TS]

01:14:38   dungeons and dragons it felt like like [TS]

01:14:41   like our music probably same for Judas [TS]

01:14:46   Priest maybe yeah I think so it's just [TS]

01:14:48   like leather and studs and like you know [TS]

01:14:51   this is music about dragons whereas and [TS]

01:14:58   a lot of New Wave just felt like oh this [TS]

01:14:59   is just pop music with keyboards but [TS]

01:15:01   some tunes and I feel like flock of [TS]

01:15:04   seagulls in Berlin fall into this [TS]

01:15:06   category captured the feeling of the [TS]

01:15:10   future where where it felt cold that's [TS]

01:15:14   that's that's where Gary Numan kind of [TS]

01:15:15   takes the cake yeah it just feels like [TS]

01:15:17   oh shit that you know like what the [TS]

01:15:20   future is scary [TS]

01:15:21   it's scary because it doesn't feel [TS]

01:15:25   like there it doesn't feel like there [TS]

01:15:27   are any blankets there and and I and [TS]

01:15:31   it's not just the music videos like it's [TS]

01:15:33   in the music yeah the dissonant like [TS]

01:15:37   squeaky they were very dissonant squeaky [TS]

01:15:40   keyboards at that time could sometimes [TS]

01:15:41   be very very upsetting but like they had [TS]

01:15:44   a they had a very strong effect on me [TS]

01:15:45   and that yeah and there and the idea I [TS]

01:15:47   think that got into my head forever that [TS]

01:15:51   there should be a note droning somewhere [TS]

01:15:54   which is actually something thrown back [TS]

01:15:57   to the Blues you know it like like it's [TS]

01:16:00   it's Apalachin to have what I mean like [TS]

01:16:06   there's some I'm trying to think of [TS]

01:16:07   bands you take a song like I want to say [TS]

01:16:09   masquerade [TS]

01:16:10   but the riffs would be very dissonant [TS]

01:16:13   and yet incredibly catchy a lot of the [TS]

01:16:15   time or something like in like with Gary [TS]

01:16:16   knew me take some like cars or even [TS]

01:16:18   earlier you take down in the park you [TS]

01:16:20   take a two-way army song song and like [TS]

01:16:22   there's the two-way arm it was menacing [TS]

01:16:24   like they do you talk about the future [TS]

01:16:26   without blankets title that's that stuff [TS]

01:16:28   just feels like oh my god does this post [TS]

01:16:31   Kraftwerk future we're gonna live in [TS]

01:16:32   where everything's just gonna be metal [TS]

01:16:34   walls it's just that's such a feeling to [TS]

01:16:36   it of like this is this is not something [TS]

01:16:38   we've experienced before [TS]

01:16:39   yeah I'm gonna be alone and no one's [TS]

01:16:41   ever gonna smile and if you and if you [TS]

01:16:43   say you know if we say the wrong words [TS]

01:16:45   like everyone's head is gonna turn yeah [TS]

01:16:49   [Music] [TS]

01:16:51   sure like music and you're gonna you're [TS]

01:16:54   gonna have a lot of mascara on I don't [TS]

01:17:01   think you can ever run out of mascara it [TS]

01:17:02   was not cool at all to like Adam well [TS]

01:17:06   see I always thought I still call him [TS]

01:17:07   out him in the ants too like Adam the [TS]

01:17:08   ants when I like that in the ants was [TS]

01:17:10   extremely not cool in Central Florida [TS]

01:17:12   well even up into then in some ways it [TS]

01:17:15   was even more embarrassing when Friend [TS]

01:17:16   or Foe got popular because I was into [TS]

01:17:18   Kingsley well frontier and Prince [TS]

01:17:20   Charming we're like whoa Stanton deliver [TS]

01:17:23   was my favorite song for probably five [TS]

01:17:24   years a great tune it's a good song and [TS]

01:17:27   they had two drummers and they dressed [TS]

01:17:28   like pirates and like what are they [TS]

01:17:30   doing with all that makeup and then [TS]

01:17:31   Friend or Foe [TS]

01:17:32   I mean it really was kind of like Tiger [TS]

01:17:35   Beat material in some ways was still [TS]

01:17:36   very good song with a great band [TS]

01:17:38   but like then was even more embarrassing [TS]

01:17:39   because like oh yeah I knew you liked [TS]

01:17:40   this obscure English band but now I [TS]

01:17:42   really understand what this band is and [TS]

01:17:44   you like this is not very Molly Hatchet [TS]

01:17:47   I feel like the I feel like it's another [TS]

01:17:50   example of like Adam Ant had so much [TS]

01:17:54   attitude toward the camera mm-hmm like [TS]

01:17:57   he was very he was very beautiful [TS]

01:17:59   telegenic yeah just right in your face [TS]

01:18:02   with it and I I could never give I could [TS]

01:18:07   I could never hate that like even even [TS]

01:18:09   in the darkest time of like if it's not [TS]

01:18:12   metal it's not music his like pure [TS]

01:18:17   swagger and that was what I that was why [TS]

01:18:19   I didn't like simply red why I didn't [TS]

01:18:21   like Tears for Fears was that they there [TS]

01:18:24   wasn't swagger it looked like they were [TS]

01:18:27   you know they were trying to seem deep [TS]

01:18:30   and I didn't respond to that as much as [TS]

01:18:34   I did like Here I am like and why I [TS]

01:18:41   could never ever ever hate on George [TS]

01:18:43   Michael even at the even I'm just a [TS]

01:18:47   little bit [TS]

01:18:47   even when wham was ludicrous raps the [TS]

01:18:51   lamb rap song you think that was a [TS]

01:18:52   little silly at the time I mean it's not [TS]

01:18:54   like I was listening to those records [TS]

01:18:55   but I didn't I didn't look at George [TS]

01:18:58   Michael and have contempt for him he [TS]

01:19:00   wasn't you weren't offended I wasn't no [TS]

01:19:02   well no I I felt like yeah there it is [TS]

01:19:05   like he's he's owning he's owning that [TS]

01:19:07   space and that was and that was a I [TS]

01:19:10   think there was a lot I mean I don't [TS]

01:19:12   like Frank Zappa at all but I love Frank [TS]

01:19:15   Zappa oh yeah [TS]

01:19:16   you know the idea of Frank Zappa is very [TS]

01:19:21   strong the idea of Frank Zappa the smell [TS]

01:19:25   of Frank Zappa is something I don't want [TS]

01:19:30   to consider right I don't because I my [TS]

01:19:33   sense is that that Frank had a lot of [TS]

01:19:35   sex mmm [TS]

01:19:37   and that it was and and potentially even [TS]

01:19:40   largely monogamous but he was not [TS]

01:19:43   somebody who was gonna go like shower [TS]

01:19:46   before oh I see what you're saying I [TS]

01:19:49   think about that sometimes I think about [TS]

01:19:50   smells [TS]

01:19:51   yeah yeah I'm sensitive to smells you [TS]

01:19:53   know I've got a rash no because I spent [TS]

01:19:57   some time in hot tubs recently oh no no [TS]

01:19:59   no no no no no that's that's human soup [TS]

01:20:01   and I don't I don't be a perfect [TS]

01:20:04   breeding ground for that kind of thing I [TS]

01:20:05   like a hot bath mm-hmm I like a even a [TS]

01:20:09   swimming pool but a hot tub I always [TS]

01:20:12   come out of there with hives is it on [TS]

01:20:15   your bottom parts it's just in the parts [TS]

01:20:17   that would touch it touch the water of [TS]

01:20:19   attack oh okay [TS]

01:20:21   and it's just it's uncomfortable and it [TS]

01:20:23   makes me feel like it's one of the [TS]

01:20:26   things that separates me from the 1970s [TS]

01:20:28   I feel like water beds I was into I [TS]

01:20:31   would be into them again if they were if [TS]

01:20:33   it see if it seemed reasonable to have [TS]

01:20:35   one uh-huh but a hot tub I don't know [TS]

01:20:38   whether it's the whether it's the other [TS]

01:20:40   people or the chemicals they put in them [TS]

01:20:43   to keep it's the other people from [TS]

01:20:45   creating like Polliwogs [TS]

01:20:50   John I think even in the best of [TS]

01:20:52   conditions it's a lot of work keeping [TS]

01:20:53   one of those things clean I mean if [TS]

01:20:55   you're even if you're really riding that [TS]

01:20:57   hard even if you like maybe have some [TS]

01:20:58   you've hired some help before it I think [TS]

01:21:00   that's gonna be a lot of work yeah yeah [TS]

01:21:03   but so I was in a hot tub in one place [TS]

01:21:05   and then I went to another place and [TS]

01:21:07   they had hot tubs there too I was like [TS]

01:21:09   all right mr. hot tub I guess and after [TS]

01:21:14   the first hot tub experience I was like [TS]

01:21:16   I feel a little itchy [TS]

01:21:18   yeah where a rash is really it's like [TS]

01:21:21   it's like it's just a droning [TS]

01:21:22   existential home you really cannot [TS]

01:21:24   forget the physicality of your body when [TS]

01:21:26   you got a rash there's other kinds of [TS]

01:21:27   things where you can like kind of put it [TS]

01:21:28   off for a minute but a rice just reminds [TS]

01:21:30   you that you're alive and not in a good [TS]

01:21:31   way [TS]

01:21:31   I'm I'm people I think are often [TS]

01:21:35   surprised at how vulnerable I am to [TS]

01:21:38   things you're sensitive you're sensitive [TS]

01:21:40   soap and bad smells and that that hot [TS]

01:21:44   tubs but I'm very sensitive to two [TS]

01:21:47   things and I think right now I'm reading [TS]

01:21:50   a book about sleep [TS]

01:21:52   and the book about sleep is telling me [TS]

01:21:54   that if you if you're not getting good [TS]

01:21:58   sleep you might as well die of cancer [TS]

01:21:59   right now yeah and so I'm so last night [TS]

01:22:03   I actually read the book about sleep [TS]

01:22:05   until it put me to sleep and then I lay [TS]

01:22:08   there and I woke up a little bit later [TS]

01:22:11   and and my body was like you're not [TS]

01:22:14   ready for sleep and I I really thought [TS]

01:22:16   about this book like yes I am ready for [TS]

01:22:20   sleep potty or would you like instead to [TS]

01:22:24   just die at 56 of a thousand maladies [TS]

01:22:28   and my body said hmm all right I'll I'll [TS]

01:22:32   take this on under advisement [TS]

01:22:33   and I did go back to sleep and I did [TS]

01:22:36   sleep soundly and so I'm thinking about [TS]

01:22:39   this book and I'm thinking about like [TS]

01:22:41   hmm I have a rash I also have been sick [TS]

01:22:47   a lot lately maybe it's time to read a [TS]

01:22:49   book about sleep Wow and so that's where [TS]

01:22:54   I am I'm at I am at the point in my life [TS]

01:22:56   where I would voluntarily read a book [TS]

01:22:59   about sleep and and I'm reading the [TS]

01:23:01   intro and the the writer is like well I [TS]

01:23:05   started as a psychiatry professor at [TS]

01:23:07   Harvard and then I moved to Berkeley [TS]

01:23:10   where I'm a you know a psychokinetic [TS]

01:23:12   researcher and the chairman of the [TS]

01:23:14   department and I'm picturing you know [TS]

01:23:17   this sleep researcher and I turned to [TS]

01:23:19   the back of the book jacket and and this [TS]

01:23:24   person looks like the male lead of dirty [TS]

01:23:30   dancing Patrick Swayze Patrick Swayze [TS]

01:23:33   yeah and I'm like oh no and I flipped [TS]

01:23:37   back to the intro again and it said for [TS]

01:23:39   over 20 years I've been working and I [TS]

01:23:43   was like 20 years ago was 1998 [TS]

01:23:47   like this oh he still doesn't have a [TS]

01:23:50   dict I mean this person is 39 or [TS]

01:23:54   something you know you know like you [TS]

01:23:57   seen his leathery no I'm saying if you [TS]

01:23:59   got in your career started in 1998 [TS]

01:24:04   you are I mean he's like got bleached [TS]

01:24:06   hair and so it was then it was really [TS]

01:24:10   hard not to put the book down because I [TS]

01:24:14   did not want to be lectured about sleep [TS]

01:24:16   by someone who looked like Patrick [TS]

01:24:18   Swayze but I was like stay in the game [TS]

01:24:22   stay in the game yeah maybe he has some [TS]

01:24:24   insights maybe you can learn something [TS]

01:24:26   from a young person and well so I made [TS]

01:24:31   it through the first couple of chapters [TS]

01:24:32   there's a Supreme Court justice he's [TS]

01:24:33   younger than me no it's very upsetting [TS]

01:24:37   the new yeah of course it's yeah his [TS]

01:24:41   name whoever the guy is that's that they [TS]

01:24:42   jammed in there yeah upsetting but I got [TS]

01:24:46   a tip for you I can't promise is gonna [TS]

01:24:48   help but this is someone out of the [TS]

01:24:49   cognitive-behavioral tradition but [TS]

01:24:51   something I've been doing that has been [TS]

01:24:53   helping with the sleep and you've heard [TS]

01:24:54   me I don't know if you've ever heard me [TS]

01:24:55   mention this before what are my [TS]

01:24:56   catchphrases in life one of my guiding [TS]

01:24:58   principles is to remind myself that I've [TS]

01:25:00   decided not to let it bother me what [TS]

01:25:01   something starts to bother me I say to [TS]

01:25:03   myself you know what I've decided not to [TS]

01:25:04   let it bother me then every part of that [TS]

01:25:06   is important so I started trying to [TS]

01:25:07   adopt that with sleep when I wake up and [TS]

01:25:09   I suddenly I start feeling all the [TS]

01:25:11   anxiety I say hmm maybe I'm not a bad [TS]

01:25:14   person because I'm awake maybe I will [TS]

01:25:16   actually get up for a few minutes what [TS]

01:25:18   if I gave myself one hour to be awake [TS]

01:25:19   and said after an hour I'll go back to [TS]

01:25:21   sleep but I'm not gonna feel bad about [TS]

01:25:23   it I have decided not to let it bother [TS]

01:25:26   I've decided not to let it bother me hmm [TS]

01:25:29   I have decided not to let it bother me [TS]

01:25:31   and then and then all of a sudden you're [TS]

01:25:33   not a bad person anymore now you're just [TS]

01:25:34   somebody who's awake for a little while [TS]

01:25:35   and then you're somebody who can go back [TS]

01:25:37   to sleep because you know because you [TS]

01:25:38   know what kills you is the feeling bad [TS]

01:25:39   about it it's the being bothered that [TS]

01:25:41   will keep you awake [TS]

01:25:43   [Music] [TS]

01:25:48   okay well but but I mean I know that I'm [TS]

01:25:51   a bad person [TS]

01:25:52   well I don't convinced of that or [TS]

01:25:56   disabused I was sir [TS]

01:25:58   but what yeah I just this guy you know [TS]

01:26:03   he he made me feel okay because he was [TS]

01:26:06   like he gave me some of what I was [TS]

01:26:08   looking for which it is if you stay up [TS]

01:26:12   late at night that's because that's what [TS]

01:26:13   you're supposed to do and your body is [TS]

01:26:15   on a cycle and you can't do [TS]

01:26:16   just a normal healthy American boy I'm [TS]

01:26:19   an owl I'm an owl not an early bird I'm [TS]

01:26:21   an owl and and so I was like yeah damn [TS]

01:26:26   right and he said but if you don't get [TS]

01:26:28   eight hours of sleep at night you're [TS]

01:26:30   gonna die [TS]

01:26:31   this is your alright the bad news is [TS]

01:26:34   it's killing you face compliment [TS]

01:26:38   sandwich world's fucked up nobody you [TS]

01:26:41   know the world is not made for people [TS]

01:26:43   that want to sleep until 10:00 a.m. [TS]

01:26:45   let alone noon so it's too bad for you [TS]

01:26:48   if you don't get eight hours of sleep a [TS]

01:26:50   night your brain is gonna turn into [TS]

01:26:51   spaghetti noodles and be too tired to [TS]

01:26:55   realize it I'm gonna be too tired to go [TS]

01:26:57   to war teach on that shoot tired [TS]

01:27:06   [Music] [TS]

01:27:06   [Music] [TS]

00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:05   I'm Merlin how's going good long time [TS]

00:00:10   Nessie Esmond that long we just talked [TS]

00:00:13   last week right that's right yeah yes [TS]

00:00:17   there's no Vale to tear away no we've [TS]

00:00:19   been talking consistently yes we talked [TS]

00:00:23   about politics last week oh yeah as you [TS]

00:00:29   remember when we talked last week yeah [TS]

00:00:31   yeah we talked about politics that was a [TS]

00:00:33   that was a real hit show it's barnburner [TS]

00:00:35   yeah it was got a lot of got a lot of [TS]

00:00:38   hearts and faith for that one yeah [TS]

00:00:40   collective hearts collected faves mmm [TS]

00:00:44   collecting them in my in my little [TS]

00:00:46   Tupperware in my it's not a little [TS]

00:00:48   Tupperware it's a big big big one of [TS]

00:00:50   those big Tupper what's the name of a [TS]

00:00:51   soundcloud rapper locally clever where a [TS]

00:00:54   little Tupperware yeah yeah I got a I [TS]

00:00:58   got a big bucket of those hit hearts and [TS]

00:01:01   babes I've been collecting since 2011 [TS]

00:01:02   mm-hmm hearts and minds hearts and faves [TS]

00:01:05   well it's nice to talk to you you used [TS]

00:01:07   to get a lot of faves [TS]

00:01:09   jimena yeah got gold star faves yeah I [TS]

00:01:13   don't use the internet as much as I used [TS]

00:01:14   to [TS]

00:01:16   you said a mouthful mm-hmm man you know [TS]

00:01:19   I use it I use it differently the pipes [TS]

00:01:21   and the wires you know I've rerouted [TS]

00:01:22   them a little bit a little bit of a home [TS]

00:01:24   improvement on my internet you know it [TS]

00:01:26   was my uncle's law partner that said the [TS]

00:01:29   internet was a series of tubes right [TS]

00:01:32   that's uncle Ted uncle pad yeah it's [TS]

00:01:35   like no no no you don't put on the back [TS]

00:01:37   of a truck that's what he said right [TS]

00:01:38   that's right he added some nuance to it [TS]

00:01:40   I talked about him a lot in the last [TS]

00:01:42   week or so cuz I visited my uncle who is [TS]

00:01:45   91 now and he's trying to write his [TS]

00:01:48   autobiography and he's got he's written [TS]

00:01:52   quite a bit of it but he was telling a [TS]

00:01:55   lot of stories about the good old days [TS]

00:01:57   while we were sitting around sitting [TS]

00:02:00   around the couch and heard a lot of [TS]

00:02:03   great Ted Stevens stories any you can [TS]

00:02:08   share because because Ted Stevens in the [TS]

00:02:10   popular imagination I think if you know [TS]

00:02:12   the name Ted Stevens you may know that [TS]

00:02:14   he is the the tubes a series of tubes [TS]

00:02:16   back of a truck guy [TS]

00:02:18   you may know wasn't he famous for the [TS]

00:02:20   quote-unquote Bridge to Nowhere [TS]

00:02:21   wasn't that his boondoggle no that was a [TS]

00:02:23   different Alaskan see I already don't [TS]

00:02:26   know who I'm talking about yeah that was [TS]

00:02:28   Wally Hickel Wally Hickel the former [TS]

00:02:31   governor and Nixon Secretary of the [TS]

00:02:34   Interior Ted was a fan of political pork [TS]

00:02:37   was he not well Ted Oh Merlin yuck that [TS]

00:02:41   let me get you started please permit me [TS]

00:02:43   you said it political pork Ted was the [TS]

00:02:47   chairman of the Armed Forces [TS]

00:02:50   Appropriations Committee they get to [TS]

00:02:53   decide where what bad heart defense [TS]

00:02:57   money goes no that's where all the [TS]

00:02:59   defense money all the defense may all [TS]

00:03:01   the great defense like all the great [TS]

00:03:02   defense money the Appropriations [TS]

00:03:04   Committee is very powerful and Ted was [TS]

00:03:07   the leader of it and so and you guys are [TS]

00:03:10   right there by by the Soviet Union you [TS]

00:03:12   can about your window that's right and [TS]

00:03:14   you know my dad and my uncle are [TS]

00:03:16   peaceniks or at least anti-war they're [TS]

00:03:20   doves that's what they would have been [TS]

00:03:22   calling doves prefer peace they prefer [TS]

00:03:29   peace and they would say you know Ted [TS]

00:03:31   you gotta what are you doing here man [TS]

00:03:32   with these guns and Ted would say you [TS]

00:03:36   know 48 out of 50 states the military is [TS]

00:03:40   their number one employer that should [TS]

00:03:45   get it's a logical fallacy that's a [TS]

00:03:47   really good logical fallacy it's like my [TS]

00:03:49   dad used to do when I when I started to [TS]

00:03:52   try and take his car away because it was [TS]

00:03:54   too old to drive and he would say I got [TS]

00:03:56   a guy got an appointment to get the car [TS]

00:03:58   fixed people run everything so we should [TS]

00:04:04   let white people run everything so Ted [TS]

00:04:07   Ted yeah Ted you know he was appointed [TS]

00:04:11   to the Senate the first time he never he [TS]

00:04:14   didn't even he was his like he didn't [TS]

00:04:19   win election to that office [TS]

00:04:23   initially okay I'm looking him up here I [TS]

00:04:25   go and that was that's like kind of [TS]

00:04:29   extraordinary just in the sense that he [TS]

00:04:32   he became one of the longest senators [TS]

00:04:35   serving his president pro-tem for years [TS]

00:04:41   he was that the time he was the lamb [TS]

00:04:43   around the internet science site he was [TS]

00:04:45   the longest serving Republican senator [TS]

00:04:47   in history at the time he left office [TS]

00:04:48   now of course that's orrin hatch yeah [TS]

00:04:52   orrin hatch now has made it made it over [TS]

00:04:54   here I mean they're gonna have to pry [TS]

00:04:56   the Senate from his his one good hand [TS]

00:05:03   lot of layers part of his whole thing [TS]

00:05:09   was like there's he was off of term [TS]

00:05:12   limits or didn't like the idea that [TS]

00:05:14   these guys would get in there and then [TS]

00:05:16   never leave it was real frustrating to [TS]

00:05:17   him and that was I think in 1977 is that [TS]

00:05:21   right was in 1977 when he came in orrin [TS]

00:05:23   hatch yeah no I have no idea I don't [TS]

00:05:25   follow the career born read the traits [TS]

00:05:28   assumed office January 3 1977 Wow yeah [TS]

00:05:32   yeah and Ted was already there right he [TS]

00:05:34   was he was there Ted this is what's [TS]

00:05:37   crazy he went into the Senate right [TS]

00:05:39   about the time I was born so I mean [TS]

00:05:44   there was like three months of my entire [TS]

00:05:46   life that Ted Stevens autumn in the US I [TS]

00:05:48   want to just reflect the fact that I [TS]

00:05:50   just totally confused orrin hatch and [TS]

00:05:51   Bob Dole thank you very much all fixing [TS]

00:05:52   the Edit damn good 1976 his first run [TS]

00:05:58   for office elected to the Senate [TS]

00:05:59   defeating Frank Moss the three-term [TS]

00:06:00   incumbent among other issues hatch [TS]

00:06:03   criticized his ha mosses 18-year tenure [TS]

00:06:06   in the Senate saying what do you call a [TS]

00:06:08   senator who served in office for 18 [TS]

00:06:10   years you call him home he ran on the [TS]

00:06:12   promise of time right he got in there he [TS]

00:06:14   got on the promise of term limits that [TS]

00:06:16   was we should do yeah I should have do [TS]

00:06:19   not don't like me in there in a while [TS]

00:06:22   mm-hmm it's early it's really early so I [TS]

00:06:25   took I took you off your game so uncle [TS]

00:06:27   Ted comes in oh and it was a weird thing [TS]

00:06:30   because that he came in because a Senate [TS]

00:06:34   era that our senator at the time a guy [TS]

00:06:37   named Bob Bartlett [TS]

00:06:38   who was a Democrat Bob Bartlett died [TS]

00:06:45   and it was not yet the rule that if if a [TS]

00:06:54   senator died in office and you were [TS]

00:06:56   going to appoint a replacement that you [TS]

00:06:58   require you appointed a replacement from [TS]

00:07:00   the same party so the new governor was a [TS]

00:07:04   Republican and he just appointed a [TS]

00:07:05   Republican Oh No kidding [TS]

00:07:07   instead of replacing Bob Bartlett with [TS]

00:07:09   the Democrat Bob Bartlett born in [TS]

00:07:11   Seattle yeah and you know the one of our [TS]

00:07:14   competing high schools in Anchorage I [TS]

00:07:16   went to East High School one of our [TS]

00:07:19   competing high schools was called [TS]

00:07:20   Bartlett High School after after Bob [TS]

00:07:22   Bartlett thought all the histories [TS]

00:07:25   connected yet salt it's all connected [TS]

00:07:27   it's all you know Alaska is very small [TS]

00:07:29   very small political politically Alaska [TS]

00:07:32   very small he died the year you were [TS]

00:07:36   born [TS]

00:07:37   I believe December 11 1968 yeah he had [TS]

00:07:40   had some heart surgery and that's why [TS]

00:07:42   Ted Stevens was appointed by the [TS]

00:07:45   Republican governor by the Republican [TS]

00:07:46   governor and when you know and [TS]

00:07:48   immediately immediately immediately [TS]

00:07:50   [Music] [TS]

00:07:52   appointed yeah that was big year 1968 [TS]

00:07:58   yeah riots in Paris mm-hmm you know [TS]

00:08:02   quite a long this is the 50th [TS]

00:08:04   anniversary of 1968 I know isn't that [TS]

00:08:07   strange that's one of the years it must [TS]

00:08:10   have felt like five years it still feels [TS]

00:08:13   like they're I don't know we've had a [TS]

00:08:16   we've had a bigger year sentence no it [TS]

00:08:18   was we've talked about this every [TS]

00:08:20   goddamn week but like the fractious [TS]

00:08:22   nough some 1968 and the stuff that [TS]

00:08:23   happened that I mean 63 obviously with [TS]

00:08:26   Kennedy being assassinated that was a [TS]

00:08:28   real shocker for the country it just [TS]

00:08:30   like well I mean cuz do you think about [TS]

00:08:32   who was the previous one was not [TS]

00:08:34   Cleveland McKinley like the last [TS]

00:08:36   presidential assassination had been like [TS]

00:08:38   this from another era and you just [TS]

00:08:40   couldn't even imagine this seemingly [TS]

00:08:43   healthy young man you know just being [TS]

00:08:46   being cut down [TS]

00:08:47   emphasis on seemingly seemingly he had a [TS]

00:08:51   lot pills stashed a lot of pills and [TS]

00:08:54   and various things I but you know but [TS]

00:08:55   the 68 is so much happen even if you [TS]

00:08:57   just take the assassinations and there's [TS]

00:08:59   so much more than the assassinations but [TS]

00:09:01   like you say internationally the stuff [TS]

00:09:02   was stuff going on internationally was [TS]

00:09:03   so bananas yeah I just I feel like that [TS]

00:09:08   was back when years would be like a year [TS]

00:09:11   right like Time magazine would do like a [TS]

00:09:14   like the Year in Review and it really [TS]

00:09:17   felt like wow we really put one away [TS]

00:09:20   this year we were put one in the history [TS]

00:09:22   books they're gonna they're gonna [TS]

00:09:23   remember 1982 you know that was that was [TS]

00:09:28   a heck of a year 1997 is going to make [TS]

00:09:32   1982 mmm look like 1968 Hot Wheels Hot [TS]

00:09:38   Wheels Hot Wheels are introduced January [TS]

00:09:40   4th 1968 Hot Wheels Sesame Street Sesame [TS]

00:09:43   Street don't me take you out for game [TS]

00:09:45   I'm just reading the Internet but keep [TS]

00:09:47   this is my game I was realizing I would [TS]

00:09:51   just a second ago realized it's very [TS]

00:09:53   early so early [TS]

00:09:55   I've been up I've been up in Hale and [TS]

00:09:57   Hardy since like 6:30 and I by 10:00 [TS]

00:09:59   a.m. I'm just so tired [TS]

00:10:00   I got like it's like my second morning I [TS]

00:10:06   have introduced my daughter to the [TS]

00:10:08   concept of second breakfast I'm so sorry [TS]

00:10:10   I did Oh [TS]

00:10:11   breakfast is now a thing well because I [TS]

00:10:14   started reading her The Hobbit [TS]

00:10:16   okay I'll terrific well except she is [TS]

00:10:19   really not into it she's like ah boring [TS]

00:10:21   yeah but then we got to very early on [TS]

00:10:25   you know Bilbo starts having a second [TS]

00:10:27   breakfast and she hurt yours really [TS]

00:10:28   perked up a second referenced fixing [TS]

00:10:30   she's gonna want smoke a pipe second [TS]

00:10:32   breakfast so I do have to hear about it [TS]

00:10:36   now oh I was I was told by her that I [TS]

00:10:38   can no longer keys her and I said that [TS]

00:10:41   I've had I've had that conversation yeah [TS]

00:10:43   and I was like take something out of [TS]

00:10:45   Canon if you said something cute and a [TS]

00:10:47   funny voice you can't you can't I can't [TS]

00:10:49   sweep it's too Boeing like that's gonna [TS]

00:10:51   be on you forever kid proficient said [TS]

00:10:53   that when you were two if you didn't [TS]

00:10:55   want to be cute yeah that's right I [TS]

00:10:56   can't sweep it's two boys and and and I [TS]

00:11:00   said well what what is the number one [TS]

00:11:02   way that I tease you that you want me to [TS]

00:11:05   stop and she said [TS]

00:11:08   stop saying bastok of potatoes this [TS]

00:11:13   episode of Rodrick on the line is [TS]

00:11:14   brought to you by Squarespace you can [TS]

00:11:17   learn more about Squarespace right now [TS]

00:11:19   by going to Squarespace calm and get [TS]

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00:11:22   you're ready to launch please use the [TS]

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00:11:25   get 10% off your first purchase of a [TS]

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00:11:31   much great stuff that you can do with [TS]

00:11:32   Squarespace well let's start as they say [TS]

00:11:33   with step 0 which is you can have a [TS]

00:11:34   podcast there the show you're listening [TS]

00:11:36   to right now Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:11:37   done entirely using Squarespace they [TS]

00:11:40   have the files there they got the show [TS]

00:11:41   notes they got the images it's all there [TS]

00:11:42   and John and I just love this site but [TS]

00:11:45   you can do whatever you need to with it [TS]

00:11:46   you can create a beautiful website for [TS]

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00:12:27   out of the box they even have a new way [TS]

00:12:28   to buy domains and choose from over 200 [TS]

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00:12:35   time you guys know all this stuff just [TS]

00:12:37   get out there and do it you got to make [TS]

00:12:38   it make it yourself easily create a [TS]

00:12:40   website and you know what even a [TS]

00:12:42   Squarespace is not the perfect thing for [TS]

00:12:43   you please keep it in mind for other [TS]

00:12:45   people in your life you do not need to [TS]

00:12:47   be in the webmaster business you can [TS]

00:12:49   point them to Squarespace get them set [TS]

00:12:51   up in just a really a very small handful [TS]

00:12:52   of minutes and they're good to go [TS]

00:12:54   taking care of their own thing big fans [TS]

00:12:56   of Squarespace once again you go to [TS]

00:12:57   squarespace.com and you can get your [TS]

00:13:00   free trial when you're ready to go you [TS]

00:13:01   just use the very special offer code [TS]

00:13:03   supertrain that's gonna get you 10% off [TS]

00:13:05   your first purchase our thanks to [TS]

00:13:08   Squarespace for supporting Roderick on [TS]

00:13:10   the line and all the great shows so I [TS]

00:13:16   was like alright you know what I'll stop [TS]

00:13:18   saying bass the company knows if you if [TS]

00:13:20   this is really [TS]

00:13:21   bothering you this teasing what I say [TS]

00:13:24   because it's a game right she says you [TS]

00:13:28   know what are we doing this afternoon [TS]

00:13:29   I'm like well I don't know we could go [TS]

00:13:31   to the movies or we could eat a basket [TS]

00:13:35   potatoes and and she's just covered in [TS]

00:13:39   shame yeah her guard is down but but she [TS]

00:13:42   started to she got started to get the [TS]

00:13:44   game and she would preempt me mm-hmm I'd [TS]

00:13:47   go well we could go to the dinner or and [TS]

00:13:49   she'd go get a basket potatoes and then [TS]

00:13:52   I was busted dad lame yeah well so so I [TS]

00:13:57   said I'm gonna stop teasing you I'm [TS]

00:13:59   gonna take that out of the out of the [TS]

00:14:01   the lexicon we're not you're not ever [TS]

00:14:03   gonna hear it again and then later on [TS]

00:14:05   that afternoon I said well what should [TS]

00:14:08   we do this afternoon and she was like [TS]

00:14:09   why don't we get a basket of potatoes [TS]

00:14:10   and I was like hey you you can't tease [TS]

00:14:14   me it's like it's like her n-word well [TS]

00:14:17   and so now she really has to she's [TS]

00:14:20   really chewing on it because she didn't [TS]

00:14:24   want to be teased but what that meant [TS]

00:14:25   was she didn't want to be she didn't [TS]

00:14:27   want to lose she didn't want to be the [TS]

00:14:30   one that delivered got the basket of [TS]

00:14:32   potatoes delivered upon her now she's [TS]

00:14:33   like that that all right guy who dresses [TS]

00:14:36   up in diapers and hangs out in safe [TS]

00:14:38   spaces to pony libs he's a grown man he [TS]

00:14:45   dresses up in he's been known to dress [TS]

00:14:47   up in diapers with a pacifier and he [TS]

00:14:49   goes to college campuses and makes fun [TS]

00:14:50   of safe space this morning he wears a [TS]

00:14:52   diaper Oh [TS]

00:14:52   that'll show that same thing right [TS]

00:14:54   that's too good potatoes same situation [TS]

00:14:55   it's like she's pulling herself as a [TS]

00:14:57   cell phone I opened my email this [TS]

00:14:59   morning because I made the a couple of [TS]

00:15:02   days ago I was like you know all right [TS]

00:15:03   I'm gonna go and unsubscribe from all [TS]

00:15:05   these things and let's see which ones I [TS]

00:15:07   really successfully unsubscribe from and [TS]

00:15:10   which ones it's just like the elevator [TS]

00:15:14   button anything or dropping dropping a [TS]

00:15:19   bit of oil onto like the overhead [TS]

00:15:22   projector at a dead show where it just [TS]

00:15:25   is like blurring and now all of a sudden [TS]

00:15:26   I get 400 emails because I've identified [TS]

00:15:28   myself as a living person but I got an [TS]

00:15:31   email from the NRA [TS]

00:15:33   listen which I had never had one [TS]

00:15:36   directly from them are you are you [TS]

00:15:38   remember no most of my family was but [TS]

00:15:42   are not well my late father was a he [TS]

00:15:46   basically his occupation his career was [TS]

00:15:49   I mean he'd been an Eagle Scout he was [TS]

00:15:52   he's from that age we're like normal [TS]

00:15:54   guys had guns and he talked gun safety [TS]

00:15:56   classes and he was in the NRA and he was [TS]

00:15:57   in Ducks Unlimited he's like hey we [TS]

00:15:59   can't kill all the Ducks so we won't get [TS]

00:16:00   to shoot ducks anymore like an early [TS]

00:16:01   kind of like right-wing conservative [TS]

00:16:04   movement like a conservation movement [TS]

00:16:06   like he was oh he was like a good he was [TS]

00:16:08   a good gun guy he taught like I say he [TS]

00:16:09   taught gun safety classes and except for [TS]

00:16:12   Korea never shot a guy [TS]

00:16:14   except for Korea he never shot a guy [TS]

00:16:16   yeah he was he had a bad time in Korea [TS]

00:16:18   it was not a good police action oh [TS]

00:16:20   that's too bad [TS]

00:16:21   yeah hit the PTSD didn't you know didn't [TS]

00:16:25   call it that then they just thought he [TS]

00:16:26   was a guy who didn't like fireworks [TS]

00:16:27   would be a marina or an army he was uh [TS]

00:16:30   he was very briefly a PFC until he got [TS]

00:16:33   busted to basic private because he [TS]

00:16:35   refused to paint a barracks right before [TS]

00:16:38   they he knew they were bugging out oh [TS]

00:16:40   yeah there's just two ways and one of [TS]

00:16:44   them's the army way another way is that [TS]

00:16:46   you could get less money each week yeah [TS]

00:16:48   that's a that's a tough one [TS]

00:16:50   to get to get but busted down he's in he [TS]

00:16:54   was in frontline battles he had frozen [TS]

00:16:55   feet and stuff it was a terrible [TS]

00:16:56   situation no it's awful it was awful it [TS]

00:16:59   was off so he didn't want to watch mash [TS]

00:17:00   let's see he I don't know if he why mash [TS]

00:17:05   is on for a couple years before he died [TS]

00:17:06   I don't remember that being a show that [TS]

00:17:08   we watched but everybody man everybody [TS]

00:17:11   you know Winchester just died Charles [TS]

00:17:13   Emerson Winchester the third Charles [TS]

00:17:15   yeah he just he passed a couple three [TS]

00:17:17   days ago oh no my daughter knows him [TS]

00:17:19   through his voice work he's been who's [TS]

00:17:21   been the voice in many things he's a [TS]

00:17:22   voice in miyazaki movie spirited away he [TS]

00:17:26   is a voice in the wonderful and [TS]

00:17:28   underrated lilo and Stitch huh that and [TS]

00:17:31   he's in a program of terrible not [TS]

00:17:32   terrible a program my daughter likes [TS]

00:17:34   called the Regular Show he also has a [TS]

00:17:35   role in there huh no kidding yeah I'm [TS]

00:17:38   always amazed by people that recognize [TS]

00:17:39   other people's voices didn't voiceover [TS]

00:17:42   work [TS]

00:17:42   I mean I can pick out Morgan free it's [TS]

00:17:44   it's a it's a sport in our house is like [TS]

00:17:46   who can name that person first I fee I [TS]

00:17:48   took you out the Panay toes [TS]

00:17:50   oh no I mean I there was never a time [TS]

00:17:55   where I didn't feel like the National [TS]

00:17:58   Rifle Association was not an [TS]

00:18:01   organization that did not represent me [TS]

00:18:03   wait I guess a lot of knots in that time [TS]

00:18:05   that's right that there's there was [TS]

00:18:08   never be they used to be I mean I think [TS]

00:18:11   the where we stand today is it's fairly [TS]

00:18:13   well known that even though they portray [TS]

00:18:15   themselves as an organization that is [TS]

00:18:17   for people who believe in the Second [TS]

00:18:19   Amendment right to keep and bear arms [TS]

00:18:21   they are I think that was pretend to be [TS]

00:18:23   doing that it is a they are a [TS]

00:18:25   industry-funded lobbying group whose [TS]

00:18:28   primary goal is to sell more guns and [TS]

00:18:30   secondary goal is to not allow anything [TS]

00:18:31   to happen that would prevent selling [TS]

00:18:33   more guns that's not to be cynical but I [TS]

00:18:35   think that's pretty much what they are [TS]

00:18:37   at this point this this was a you know [TS]

00:18:39   the the transformation of the NRA from a [TS]

00:18:42   sportsman's organization to whatever it [TS]

00:18:43   is now a lot everything was a lobbying [TS]

00:18:45   group well but you know a sportsman's [TS]

00:18:49   lobbying group to whatever it is now I [TS]

00:18:51   mean industry centric yeah well or no [TS]

00:18:54   it's not even it I don't think it's that [TS]

00:18:56   it's a propaganda organization now it [TS]

00:18:59   doesn't have anything to I mean but that [TS]

00:19:01   transformations been happening [TS]

00:19:03   throughout the course of my life like my [TS]

00:19:04   and father was even by 1950s [TS]

00:19:10   standards a gun nut like a nut mm-hmm [TS]

00:19:16   I've probably described before that in [TS]

00:19:19   the house the house my mom grew up in [TS]

00:19:23   she said that there were just rifles [TS]

00:19:26   leaning you know in all the corners of [TS]

00:19:29   all the rooms like in the living room [TS]

00:19:32   all four corners just had like rifles [TS]

00:19:36   leaning in them and so when she was home [TS]

00:19:39   alone at night and it's a farm house [TS]

00:19:41   it's out you know a mile from the [TS]

00:19:45   nearest neighbor [TS]

00:19:46   she'd be home alone studying at night [TS]

00:19:49   and I guess they didn't have curtains [TS]

00:19:51   because they couldn't I don't know why [TS]

00:19:55   because back then why would you have [TS]

00:19:57   curtains I'm not sure I don't think they [TS]

00:19:58   were too poor for curtains although they [TS]

00:20:01   right hide nothing curtains right on the [TS]

00:20:04   border of being too poor for curtains [TS]

00:20:06   what we could use that fabric as napkins [TS]

00:20:11   but like guns in the corner and so she [TS]

00:20:14   would move her she would move her little [TS]

00:20:16   study chair to the center of the room [TS]

00:20:19   because she didn't want she was [TS]

00:20:22   obviously like she's you know young girl [TS]

00:20:24   she was afraid that someone was looking [TS]

00:20:27   at her in the in the dark [TS]

00:20:30   somebody was out in the dark looking in [TS]

00:20:31   but she also felt like there are guns in [TS]

00:20:34   all the corners like I'm fine [TS]

00:20:36   ultimately like I can get to a gun [TS]

00:20:39   within seconds but the strange [TS]

00:20:43   environment to grow up in to me yeah and [TS]

00:20:46   it's not natural to her I mean she's [TS]

00:20:51   still she's still deadly people weapons [TS]

00:20:59   and I think one cognitive disconnect [TS]

00:21:02   between in our country right now is that [TS]

00:21:04   there are people who think of guns [TS]

00:21:05   primarily as people killing machines and [TS]

00:21:07   other people who think of it no [TS]

00:21:08   differently than they would think of a [TS]

00:21:09   screwdriver or a hammer it's something [TS]

00:21:11   that's part of a certain rural lifestyle [TS]

00:21:14   that includes hunting and the need for [TS]

00:21:15   protection because there's no one to [TS]

00:21:17   help you there well I mean hunting sure [TS]

00:21:21   but there are a lot of people in America [TS]

00:21:22   that can that look at a rifle I think as [TS]

00:21:24   a tennis racket it's something that you [TS]

00:21:28   go and you get to go to the range or you [TS]

00:21:30   go somewhere and and then planket cans [TS]

00:21:33   or shoot at targets I went to a target [TS]

00:21:36   shooting match the other day a friend of [TS]

00:21:38   mine from Portland is a is a competitive [TS]

00:21:42   shooter and his team was playing the [TS]

00:21:49   local Seattle team and he and his he and [TS]

00:21:52   his pal a fellow shooter came up and I [TS]

00:21:56   went to the range with them and [TS]

00:21:58   they competed against the locals and you [TS]

00:22:01   know the the Portland team maybe [TS]

00:22:03   predictably were all in their 40s [TS]

00:22:10   quickly reduce the pointless infighting [TS]

00:22:12   no like they all had kind of long hair [TS]

00:22:15   and beards and the Seattle team were all [TS]

00:22:18   7b Oh interesting and had suspenders and [TS]

00:22:23   there's still regionality in anything I [TS]

00:22:25   love that they had suspenders on their [TS]

00:22:27   jeans and you know like the Seattle team [TS]

00:22:31   was definitely like old gun people and [TS]

00:22:35   the Portland team were like we're the [TS]

00:22:36   young you know these are very technical [TS]

00:22:38   instruments these pistols and you know [TS]

00:22:43   that's a whole I mean shit they're still [TS]

00:22:45   shooting in the Olympics get the [TS]

00:22:49   biathlon that's a great that's a crazy [TS]

00:22:51   event did you watch the women's biathlon [TS]

00:22:54   no no no but I just remember well first [TS]

00:22:55   when I first became aware of it as like [TS]

00:22:57   a teen I was like one get this straight [TS]

00:22:58   like you ski really hard you get out of [TS]

00:23:00   breath they always said that's the hard [TS]

00:23:01   part is you're kind of out of breath and [TS]

00:23:03   they need to pull out a rifle and shoot [TS]

00:23:05   very accurately at a distance i watch [TS]

00:23:07   the women's biathlon and it was [TS]

00:23:08   thrilling oh cool some thrilling [TS]

00:23:11   thrilling Olympic drama but you have [TS]

00:23:16   that tennis racquet thing the idea of it [TS]

00:23:20   just being a thing that you go like it's [TS]

00:23:22   just a sport transport to go try and put [TS]

00:23:25   a little little piece of metal into the [TS]

00:23:28   center of a piece of paper that's a long [TS]

00:23:30   way away like but my my grandfather was [TS]

00:23:36   somebody that according to my mom he put [TS]

00:23:39   all of his spare money in guns curtains [TS]

00:23:47   I mean that's right what are you gonna [TS]

00:23:50   do send your daughter to college man so [TS]

00:23:53   by the time he died his gun collection [TS]

00:23:56   was worth a small fortune because he had [TS]

00:24:00   all these plans Wow yeah like he had [TS]

00:24:03   bought all these beautiful weapons and [TS]

00:24:05   and he had [TS]

00:24:09   score upon score of them and I guess my [TS]

00:24:14   mother's brother took who also was Gunny [TS]

00:24:19   he wasn't like super gun nut but he was [TS]

00:24:23   gonna sh [TS]

00:24:23   at least gonna jacent but he he took it [TS]

00:24:28   all and sold it sold it all as a big you [TS]

00:24:32   know as a as a major component of his [TS]

00:24:34   quote unquote estate which I think was [TS]

00:24:36   largely made of guns ended up being a [TS]

00:24:47   shelter former shelter and I was I'm [TS]

00:24:50   actually even now many many years later [TS]

00:24:53   decades later I feel a little bit like [TS]

00:24:59   the little tiny piece of me is missing [TS]

00:25:03   in that I do not have a single one of my [TS]

00:25:06   grandfather's my crazy grandfather's oh [TS]

00:25:09   I can totally understand that yeah some [TS]

00:25:13   just like some bird rifle or something [TS]

00:25:15   you know what is it there's a [TS]

00:25:16   long-running beef in my near family [TS]

00:25:20   where basically at some point after my [TS]

00:25:23   dad died an acquaintance of our family [TS]

00:25:25   was like basically taking care of my [TS]

00:25:27   dad's collection of rifles and pistols [TS]

00:25:29   and my mom had asked for it back never [TS]

00:25:32   got it back into this day she's still [TS]

00:25:34   steamed about it yeah that's how it was [TS]

00:25:37   at the time like that's very assist that [TS]

00:25:39   would be like keeping his watch in his [TS]

00:25:40   wallet or something keeping his watch in [TS]

00:25:42   his wallet exactly my brother David got [TS]

00:25:44   my dad's Navy flight jacket a long time [TS]

00:25:48   before I came along right he grabbed [TS]

00:25:49   that out of the closet cuz that's a [TS]

00:25:51   weird thing in 1968 let's let's put [TS]

00:25:57   let's locate this story in 1968 when my [TS]

00:26:01   brother David would have been 18 my dad [TS]

00:26:05   is not my dad already is looking at his [TS]

00:26:07   Navy flight jacket as some moth-eaten [TS]

00:26:09   old thing that's hanging around the back [TS]

00:26:13   of his closet talk about 23 years there [TS]

00:26:15   yeah and when his teenage kids like hey [TS]

00:26:17   let me wear you let me wear your jacket [TS]

00:26:20   in my dad's like sure whatever you know [TS]

00:26:23   get it out of here not even thinking [TS]

00:26:26   that he would ever have another son who [TS]

00:26:28   would 20 years later who has kids that [TS]

00:26:33   later [TS]

00:26:34   yes exactly who would ever want that [TS]

00:26:37   jacket later you know what more mm-hmm [TS]

00:26:40   wanted more take better care of it so my [TS]

00:26:42   brother you know my brother took it and [TS]

00:26:44   I'm sure like put out his joints on it [TS]

00:26:47   for however long and then it just was [TS]

00:26:51   gone [TS]

00:26:52   just went into the went into the shit [TS]

00:26:53   pile like all the other jackets that [TS]

00:26:55   that hippies didn't appreciate but I did [TS]

00:27:00   get my dad's watch in his wallet [TS]

00:27:02   I feel a little bit bad about it because [TS]

00:27:05   I was over at his old folks home one day [TS]

00:27:08   I was in the bathroom looking for a [TS]

00:27:10   q-tip and I opened up some drawer and [TS]

00:27:12   his watch was in there never tell you [TS]

00:27:15   this [TS]

00:27:15   no and I said dad what's your watch [TS]

00:27:18   doing in this in the bathroom and he [TS]

00:27:22   said oh I you know put it in there so [TS]

00:27:24   the cleaning lady won't find it and I [TS]

00:27:27   said the cleaning Li is first of all [TS]

00:27:29   that's not the problem but second of all [TS]

00:27:31   the bathroom isn't like the place and I [TS]

00:27:37   said I'll tell you what I'll I'll take [TS]

00:27:39   it and keep it for you I'll protect it [TS]

00:27:42   for you and he said you're stealing my [TS]

00:27:45   watch can't go better than a cleaning [TS]

00:27:47   lady and I said I'm not stealing your [TS]

00:27:50   watch like you're not wearing it anymore [TS]

00:27:52   what do you what do you thinks gonna [TS]

00:27:54   happen to this watch this watch this [TS]

00:27:56   this is a this is the topic of watch [TS]

00:28:00   advertising you hand your watch down [TS]

00:28:03   that's what happens [TS]

00:28:04   old men hand their watches down to their [TS]

00:28:06   young sons he was like bullshit [TS]

00:28:09   Oh cuz the struggle the struggle at that [TS]

00:28:13   point is very much about maintaining [TS]

00:28:15   agency and relevance and importance and [TS]

00:28:20   like taken away the greatest generations [TS]

00:28:22   watch is wasting leo you don't need to [TS]

00:28:24   know what time it is anymore well right [TS]

00:28:26   but what I was afraid of and it's a [TS]

00:28:28   natural that he was gonna hide it by [TS]

00:28:30   tucking it in the couch right you know [TS]

00:28:33   tucking it in his rent [TS]

00:28:34   did couch and the biggest mistake I feel [TS]

00:28:38   like I made we were cleaning out his [TS]

00:28:41   house and he had some gateway computer [TS]

00:28:46   that he used to Peck out emails to me on [TS]

00:28:50   you know where it was just like he would [TS]

00:28:53   after a while just stopped using [TS]

00:28:55   punctuation I mean it was you know he [TS]

00:28:57   was just like hey what are you doing you [TS]

00:29:00   know email and when I when I was [TS]

00:29:07   cleaning out his place I was just like [TS]

00:29:08   you know he had mostly particleboard [TS]

00:29:12   furniture by then and and I just put [TS]

00:29:16   that gateway computer in a box and took [TS]

00:29:18   it to the thrift store and it never [TS]

00:29:21   occurred to me and honestly the chances [TS]

00:29:25   of this are about 6% but there's a six [TS]

00:29:30   percent chance that he had been sitting [TS]

00:29:32   at that computer pecking out some [TS]

00:29:36   autobiography right and the thing is I [TS]

00:29:39   know that it's six percent rather even [TS]

00:29:42   than 16 percent because he never did [TS]

00:29:46   anything like that in his whole life [TS]

00:29:49   he never sat down see how he would think [TS]

00:29:51   about using the tool even how to present [TS]

00:29:54   well I'm 90% sure that he didn't think [TS]

00:30:00   of it that way but but he you know he [TS]

00:30:02   was a lawyer he was no stranger to [TS]

00:30:04   filling up legal pads but he never once [TS]

00:30:08   that I ever saw and I have every legal [TS]

00:30:11   pad he ever touched because I'm a [TS]

00:30:13   because I didn't I threw away his [TS]

00:30:16   computer but I didn't throw away all [TS]

00:30:17   these legal pads but he never was like [TS]

00:30:20   you know I was thinking or you know he [TS]

00:30:24   never wrote a single page of like [TS]

00:30:25   reflections on the way life used to be [TS]

00:30:29   huh like he never done so so I don't [TS]

00:30:35   think that his computer was full of his [TS]

00:30:38   autobiographical notes but I've had 6 [TS]

00:30:42   percent chance that it wasn't eats at [TS]

00:30:44   you just a little I mean there's so many [TS]

00:30:47   things [TS]

00:30:48   eating at me I feel like I'm in a I'm in [TS]

00:30:49   the Amazon and I'm I'm being pecked at [TS]

00:30:52   from all sides although apparently [TS]

00:30:54   that's not how piranhas work as a team [TS]

00:30:58   right well but if you stepped in to the [TS]

00:31:00   you could walk across the Amazon and the [TS]

00:31:02   piranhas would not skeletonize me it's [TS]

00:31:04   so good to know yeah I think that's I [TS]

00:31:06   think I learned that on one of those [TS]

00:31:08   unless the word John I could not get to [TS]

00:31:09   use that right now you don't have a real [TS]

00:31:13   piranha problem there in the sunset [TS]

00:31:15   though see we're back to work back to [TS]

00:31:17   gorilla suits in quicksand [TS]

00:31:18   like piranhas another one of those [TS]

00:31:20   things that we were raised to believe [TS]

00:31:21   was something that was like a genuine [TS]

00:31:22   issue of concern oh sure quick I mean [TS]

00:31:25   like you can't tell these millenniums [TS]

00:31:26   but like there was a time when we can [TS]

00:31:28   all be pretty sure that somebody you [TS]

00:31:29   knew would die in quicksand it was [TS]

00:31:31   everywhere absolute gorilla suits every [TS]

00:31:34   where so many gorilla suits and they [TS]

00:31:36   just don't hear about in piranhas just [TS]

00:31:37   don't come up anymore you don't hear [TS]

00:31:39   about them the way you did it's [TS]

00:31:40   absolutely true there was one killer bee [TS]

00:31:43   killer bee there F well Africanized bees [TS]

00:31:45   hmm one one week in 1968 March 31st [TS]

00:31:51   Lyndon Johnson announces he will not [TS]

00:31:53   seek re-election now you hear that today [TS]

00:31:55   and you go oh no big deal it was a huge [TS]

00:31:57   deal it was a huge shocking deal when he [TS]

00:31:59   said he would not seek it he would not [TS]

00:32:01   accept you think about another president [TS]

00:32:03   who said no not for me [TS]

00:32:07   April 2nd April 2nd 2001 comes out April [TS]

00:32:10   3rd Planet of the Apes comes out April [TS]

00:32:11   4th Martin Luther King is assassinated [TS]

00:32:13   also April 4th Apollo 6 is launched [TS]

00:32:18   April 6th a shootout between Black [TS]

00:32:20   Panthers and Oakland Police result in [TS]

00:32:22   several arrests and deaths including [TS]

00:32:23   sixteen-year-old Panther Bobby Hutton [TS]

00:32:25   that was one week yes indeedy-do uh-huh [TS]

00:32:31   and that's what that was all immediately [TS]

00:32:33   before I was born [TS]

00:32:34   now you were born by then yeah I was [TS]

00:32:36   getting born you were alive and this is [TS]

00:32:38   you know this is what you would think [TS]

00:32:41   that there would be a generation divider [TS]

00:32:44   between if you were born before Martin [TS]

00:32:48   Luther King was killed or after thanks [TS]

00:32:52   SME street might be a bigger deal Sesame [TS]

00:32:55   Street it feels like but but don't you [TS]

00:32:56   feel like there's a generation gap that [TS]

00:32:58   starts with people where do you [TS]

00:33:01   think you start to feel like people are [TS]

00:33:03   younger than you what what age when they [TS]

00:33:06   were born I have a totally crazy one but [TS]

00:33:09   it's unavoidable this is really dumb and [TS]

00:33:11   so trivial but like a lot of my friends [TS]

00:33:14   who are just slightly younger than me or [TS]

00:33:15   feel just slightly younger than me I had [TS]

00:33:17   a couple things for better for worse [TS]

00:33:19   like I was born late in 1966 and I [TS]

00:33:22   started school late so I was one of the [TS]

00:33:24   older kids in my class but with that [TS]

00:33:25   said friends of mine who just feel just [TS]

00:33:27   slightly younger than me a real ended [TS]

00:33:28   like shitty 80s robot cartoons where I [TS]

00:33:32   was already on to like you know Doctor [TS]

00:33:34   Who or whatever right there's all this [TS]

00:33:37   affection for like and then just [TS]

00:33:39   slightly younger than that you already [TS]

00:33:40   get into Pokemon I'm like Pokemon like I [TS]

00:33:42   was fucking like 25 when that came out [TS]

00:33:44   you know so how so where is that line I [TS]

00:33:47   mean do you think of me as younger than [TS]

00:33:49   you I used to but now I do not let's [TS]

00:33:53   toss out a few in the indie rock days [TS]

00:33:56   when you and I first met mm-hmm we were [TS]

00:33:58   already both in our thirties yeah that's [TS]

00:34:00   true about my relationship with you like [TS]

00:34:04   well you know did you and Marilyn like [TS]

00:34:05   always did you or did you use to text [TS]

00:34:08   each other I was like what no podcast is [TS]

00:34:21   that we used to talk on the phone and [TS]

00:34:23   neither of us wanted to talk on the [TS]

00:34:25   phone but that was the only way you [TS]

00:34:26   could talk to you on the phone yeah we [TS]

00:34:28   watched a Kitchen Nightmares the other [TS]

00:34:30   day where the guy had a flip phone and [TS]

00:34:31   my daughter was like what is he doing [TS]

00:34:32   with that phone I was like yeah well [TS]

00:34:34   that's like when this show came out [TS]

00:34:35   that's the phone that most people had [TS]

00:34:37   know yesterday we I was at a restaurant [TS]

00:34:40   in Canadia and there was a there was a [TS]

00:34:42   phone like a desk phone but it was even [TS]

00:34:44   older than I would have ever seen it was [TS]

00:34:46   like a bakelite phone like a [TS]

00:34:48   ding-a-ling-a-ling son like a [TS]

00:34:49   ding-a-ling phone and my daughter picked [TS]

00:34:51   it up and it was a dial phone a rotary [TS]

00:34:54   phone and I said do you know how those [TS]

00:34:56   work and she said yes and she she put [TS]

00:35:01   her finger in it and she said you put [TS]

00:35:02   your finger in here and you move it to [TS]

00:35:04   the number that you want to call so I [TS]

00:35:07   want to call for instance I want to call [TS]

00:35:08   the letter C French to move it up to the [TS]

00:35:11   letter C and then went to dit and she [TS]

00:35:14   was like [TS]

00:35:15   tada I said well yeah it's not too far [TS]

00:35:19   off your clothes [TS]

00:35:21   yeah we found out we found out mixed in [TS]

00:35:23   with all of our many stickers books was [TS]

00:35:26   a copy of a zine that I used to like [TS]

00:35:28   which is a zine about big star called [TS]

00:35:31   back of a car and she's like what is [TS]

00:35:32   this comic that's like it's it's like a [TS]

00:35:36   magazine but little and it's and it had [TS]

00:35:38   a flexi disc and still had the flexi [TS]

00:35:40   disc like staple inside of it and I felt [TS]

00:35:42   like but when we first met she felt that [TS]

00:35:48   I was a little bit younger than you [TS]

00:35:49   because there were musical cues that you [TS]

00:35:52   that that could differentiate a year and [TS]

00:35:57   a half in age it's like you know what [TS]

00:36:00   the same with your kids like you your [TS]

00:36:01   daughter Shirley has friends has had [TS]

00:36:04   friends through her life that are just [TS]

00:36:05   like you know those kind of like maybe [TS]

00:36:06   you don't see them every week but it's [TS]

00:36:08   your ongoing oh that was your that was [TS]

00:36:09   your really good friend when you were a [TS]

00:36:10   baby and they're like what are you [TS]

00:36:11   talking about like there's a friend [TS]

00:36:12   there's might be a friend who's like a [TS]

00:36:13   year older and she started almost [TS]

00:36:15   certainly probably at this point has [TS]

00:36:16   friends who are like a year younger and [TS]

00:36:18   that year for obvious reasons matters [TS]

00:36:20   less and less mostly as you get older [TS]

00:36:23   right and in that case like you know [TS]

00:36:25   that's like again the mr. show bit like [TS]

00:36:27   I'm into Star Wars you're into that a [TS]

00:36:28   Empire Strikes Back bullshit you know [TS]

00:36:30   it's like these these incredibly small [TS]

00:36:32   differences become less and less [TS]

00:36:34   important but like when we met oh shit [TS]

00:36:36   dog Joe Joe from from the label had a [TS]

00:36:40   tooth the other day part um what is it [TS]

00:36:43   the thermals is it more [TS]

00:36:44   parts-per-million came out it's like oh [TS]

00:36:50   yeah like Eric knows those guys and it's [TS]

00:36:53   like it was a big deal like oh this this [TS]

00:36:54   is this really cool record though [TS]

00:36:58   doesn't that seem insane well especially [TS]

00:37:01   since I still think of the thermals has [TS]

00:37:03   like like youngster kids little guys in [TS]

00:37:07   the shirts yeah yeah yeah but but like [TS]

00:37:09   when we met like I at that point was you [TS]

00:37:13   and I were branched in slightly [TS]

00:37:14   different directions in terms of like [TS]

00:37:16   what we knew a lot about or were real [TS]

00:37:17   into and I was certainly deep in my [TS]

00:37:19   Sloan phase and a lot of like you know [TS]

00:37:21   the Canadian rock and stuff at that [TS]

00:37:22   point and you were very very up-to-date [TS]

00:37:24   unlike what was happening on the charts [TS]

00:37:26   and in the vnw [TS]

00:37:27   and all that kind of stuff but I don't [TS]

00:37:30   remember talking to ton when we talked [TS]

00:37:32   about old music it would be like you me [TS]

00:37:34   and Shawn talking about like very old [TS]

00:37:36   music listen which I mean like in our [TS]

00:37:39   lifetime but that was a long time ago [TS]

00:37:40   but you were really you you you really [TS]

00:37:44   took us in hand and and like actually [TS]

00:37:47   literally sat us down like come in here [TS]

00:37:51   sit down and begin to show us things we [TS]

00:37:56   hadn't seen famously electronic stuff [TS]

00:38:01   yeah like here's what here's what the [TS]

00:38:04   internet forum is in that forum but also [TS]

00:38:08   like you showed us the office for the [TS]

00:38:11   first time the British seen or heard of [TS]

00:38:15   when that was still contemporary you you [TS]

00:38:19   were the first person who had a DVR that [TS]

00:38:22   any of us had put the Jeff Bridges that [TS]

00:38:25   we watch it oh my god and it would and [TS]

00:38:35   this was before there was like gifts or [TS]

00:38:38   any kind of internet just keeping the TV [TS]

00:38:43   like I saved this like 11 seconds [TS]

00:38:46   there's this one time when I turned the [TS]

00:38:48   channel and accidentally caught Jeff [TS]

00:38:49   Bridges being seemingly pretty high on [TS]

00:38:52   Charlie Rose and it was really really [TS]

00:38:54   funny and we would watch it over and [TS]

00:38:55   over I can never find it now I don't [TS]

00:39:04   know I wouldn't even know where to look [TS]

00:39:05   for it it was so it was so it felt so [TS]

00:39:08   contemporary it was it was a technology [TS]

00:39:11   that none of us possessed like so wait a [TS]

00:39:14   minute wait a minute explain this again [TS]

00:39:15   you were you were changing channels you [TS]

00:39:17   can just go watch any Seinfeld now yeah [TS]

00:39:20   and it was recording somehow and you [TS]

00:39:23   were able to go back and and you were [TS]

00:39:25   like yeah it's recording everything all [TS]

00:39:27   the time you can watch whatever you want [TS]

00:39:28   whenever like recording everything all [TS]

00:39:30   the time how does it do it where does [TS]

00:39:32   keep the tapes it's turning it over [TS]

00:39:35   looking around they're elves [TS]

00:39:37   this work yeah right where are the tubes [TS]

00:39:40   and that felt so in that case that's [TS]

00:39:42   funny okay I haven't thought that much [TS]

00:39:43   about that I do have many fond [TS]

00:39:44   recollections of your band and me [TS]

00:39:46   sitting around in our underwear and [TS]

00:39:48   while my wife went to work and I [TS]

00:39:49   watching TV well there was a lot of that [TS]

00:39:51   but also I mean one night when I first [TS]

00:39:54   when you and I first met and I and this [TS]

00:39:56   is obviously like a story drenched in [TS]

00:39:58   moss but you still had a PC running in [TS]

00:40:02   your office yeah but you had begun to [TS]

00:40:06   evangelize about Macintosh well justjust [TS]

00:40:09   clarify Macs have been my computer since [TS]

00:40:11   1987 and I've owned one since 88 it's [TS]

00:40:14   just that for that there was a period [TS]

00:40:15   where I had two computers one of which [TS]

00:40:17   is a very old like 386 PC that I just [TS]

00:40:19   used for development and listening to [TS]

00:40:20   streaming music that was but pretty much [TS]

00:40:22   all but it was it wasn't like a big [TS]

00:40:24   board long like a big piece of plywood [TS]

00:40:25   in my office but it was the first time [TS]

00:40:27   that somebody it was in that what was [TS]

00:40:30   this that we're talking about 2003 [TS]

00:40:32   probably yeah - when you and I first met [TS]

00:40:36   we were on tour with Ken string it was [TS]

00:40:38   after the first record him before the [TS]

00:40:41   second record because the second record [TS]

00:40:42   was what you know that was that was kind [TS]

00:40:44   of when we became really I think better [TS]

00:40:46   friends and like went to the website and [TS]

00:40:47   everything a 2002 was when when we met [TS]

00:40:51   for sure we did something to her out [TS]

00:40:54   with the Stringfellow on his touched [TS]

00:40:56   tour that's such a good record it is a [TS]

00:40:58   good record it pains me to say that song [TS]

00:41:01   uniforms oh my god it's so good but it [TS]

00:41:03   was an oh my god do you know the day [TS]

00:41:07   that it came out I'll give you a hint [TS]

00:41:09   same day a very good jay-z record came [TS]

00:41:11   out that got a little overlooked for a [TS]

00:41:12   while holy shit oh it came out on [TS]

00:41:14   September 11 9/11 2001 Wow that's right [TS]

00:41:17   I do remember holy shit and that's the [TS]

00:41:19   reason that we didn't tour it until a [TS]

00:41:23   little bit later because it was like [TS]

00:41:24   well I can't really go on tour now [TS]

00:41:26   partner she says but it was but you had [TS]

00:41:31   started talking about Macintoshes [TS]

00:41:33   in a way in a different way where it was [TS]

00:41:34   no longer because you remember the [TS]

00:41:36   question was alright yo max were my gun [TS]

00:41:38   let's be honest yeah but the question up [TS]

00:41:41   until that point culturally had always [TS]

00:41:43   been well sure get a McIntosh if you [TS]

00:41:45   want to not be compatible with anything [TS]

00:41:48   like if you're it's great if you want to [TS]

00:41:50   live [TS]

00:41:51   inside of a small little corral do you [TS]

00:41:53   want to pay three times as much to do [TS]

00:41:54   fucking nothing [TS]

00:41:55   yeah but if you want to be you know if [TS]

00:41:57   you want to be part of the world if you [TS]

00:41:58   want to integrate and use email and a [TS]

00:42:00   computer okay get a real computer and [TS]

00:42:02   and I think that was right at the [TS]

00:42:04   turning point where it was like no [TS]

00:42:06   mackintoshes are real computers and and [TS]

00:42:10   because I I egg and not agonize because [TS]

00:42:13   I had a Mac classic in 1988 that you [TS]

00:42:18   know had Mac Paint and I remember [TS]

00:42:21   recording my voice into it mm-hmm and [TS]

00:42:24   being astonished that it played my voice [TS]

00:42:26   back out of it like whoa computers have [TS]

00:42:28   really tested out the box Mac's handled [TS]

00:42:30   you know if you knew how to do it it [TS]

00:42:32   would handle audio stuff you didn't need [TS]

00:42:34   to buy a board for it or anything like [TS]

00:42:35   that yeah it was I mean I did not know [TS]

00:42:37   how to do it so I I was I have I [TS]

00:42:40   actually still have a recording I made [TS]

00:42:42   in 1990 where my girlfriend Kate at the [TS]

00:42:46   time was sitting on my lap at my [TS]

00:42:49   computer and we were both sitting there [TS]

00:42:51   basically being amazed by it and we [TS]

00:42:55   recorded this clip you know a pretty [TS]

00:42:59   brief little clip of her it would fill [TS]

00:43:02   up your entire heart it's like a global [TS]

00:43:05   computer but she's lat like giggle [TS]

00:43:07   laughing because I'm tickling her and [TS]

00:43:11   it's just like and you know and when we [TS]

00:43:14   broke up [TS]

00:43:15   I listened to it a hundred thousand [TS]

00:43:17   times oh you know tears streaming down [TS]

00:43:19   my face thinking back all those short [TS]

00:43:22   weeks ago to when life was so easy and [TS]

00:43:25   everything made sense and I change they [TS]

00:43:30   change so quickly how they really do [TS]

00:43:31   especially you know okay [TS]

00:43:33   the reason I have that is that at some [TS]

00:43:37   time in the 2000s or early 2000s [TS]

00:43:42   probably about this same time that we're [TS]

00:43:44   talking about 2002 the stranger here the [TS]

00:43:48   Seattle newspaper still was running [TS]

00:43:52   somewhere in the office a computer that [TS]

00:43:56   old that could use those hard hard [TS]

00:44:01   floppy disk [TS]

00:44:02   and Shawn Nelson said hey do you have [TS]

00:44:05   anything stuck on an old computer [TS]

00:44:08   because if you do this would be the time [TS]

00:44:11   to transfer it into a new format because [TS]

00:44:15   we're gonna unplug this old thing and [TS]

00:44:17   that will probably be the last time any [TS]

00:44:19   one of these things is hooked to [TS]

00:44:21   anything else and I said I do have some [TS]

00:44:25   stuff and I went and got this big box of [TS]

00:44:28   those little discs and sat at the [TS]

00:44:29   stranger and transferred all that stuff [TS]

00:44:33   into you know made that made the [TS]

00:44:36   transition into whatever the new format [TS]

00:44:39   was at the time and the computer was [TS]

00:44:42   like do you want us to reformat this and [TS]

00:44:45   I was like yes and so I still have all [TS]

00:44:47   that stuff from from 1994 because [TS]

00:44:52   because of that that small little [TS]

00:44:55   gesture making the transition but you [TS]

00:44:59   you were the one I think that said to me [TS]

00:45:01   don't be afraid to buy Apple products [TS]

00:45:04   you're not gonna be on the wrong side of [TS]

00:45:07   history uh-huh and I and I you know I I [TS]

00:45:12   was like wow they're really expensive [TS]

00:45:13   and I mean they're super pretty but like [TS]

00:45:15   if you want to hook it to something I [TS]

00:45:18   think I could be you say as you say [TS]

00:45:20   there's this is all drenched in moss but [TS]

00:45:22   my running deal for a long time was that [TS]

00:45:24   I I cannot unless you're really ready [TS]

00:45:27   for the journey I cannot recommend [TS]

00:45:28   buying Mac stuff but what I would offer [TS]

00:45:30   all along which I did for too much too [TS]

00:45:33   long for too many people was I will be [TS]

00:45:35   your Sherpa and your rabbi to the extent [TS]

00:45:36   possible when when it's weird or when [TS]

00:45:39   you don't understand something I'll help [TS]

00:45:40   you set it up and that kind of stuff [TS]

00:45:42   so 2002-2003 would be right around the [TS]

00:45:45   period when I was very first feeling [TS]

00:45:47   more confident in saying I didn't have [TS]

00:45:50   to put as many asterisks on the first [TS]

00:45:51   part where I was like this is you know [TS]

00:45:53   this is getting better this is not as [TS]

00:45:55   weird there's stuff out there forgiving [TS]

00:45:58   you know knowing the context and what [TS]

00:45:59   somebody needs to do I can feel more [TS]

00:46:01   confident about saying you're not gonna [TS]

00:46:03   feel like like an idiot for having [TS]

00:46:05   bought this plus I will help you with it [TS]

00:46:06   you know as much as I can [TS]

00:46:08   yeah and you did you were very helpful [TS]

00:46:09   but and I was I was afraid the first [TS]

00:46:12   time that money it's a lot of [TS]

00:46:15   money to invest in you feel you're gonna [TS]

00:46:16   be a sucker like you're like you're [TS]

00:46:18   getting into some kind like for like now [TS]

00:46:19   with Internet of Things stuff right like [TS]

00:46:21   you don't want to go all-in spend a [TS]

00:46:22   thousand dollars on something that's [TS]

00:46:24   gonna be a Oh El Din like a year like [TS]

00:46:26   you just don't to feel like a sucker [TS]

00:46:27   well but also it seems like the internet [TS]

00:46:29   of things you don't want to do at all [TS]

00:46:31   am I am I wrong in saying that yeah same [TS]

00:46:34   for the show you know be careful where [TS]

00:46:39   you step [TS]

00:46:39   hmm I do not want my thermostat looking [TS]

00:46:43   at my bare bottom I know to the sorry [TS]

00:46:46   you choose who looks at your bare bottom [TS]

00:46:48   that's you that's Johnny's ition I do [TS]

00:46:50   sign on to my patreon and go to the top [TS]

00:46:53   level you'll see my stretch goal [TS]

00:46:56   I'll reach around you are not gonna see [TS]

00:46:59   it just because I put a new lock on my [TS]

00:47:01   door that I gave a man just look at any [TS]

00:47:03   snorkeler cats girl you know I wonder [TS]

00:47:11   about that a lot what but by which I [TS]

00:47:14   mean there's an audience for everything [TS]

00:47:16   yeah [TS]

00:47:17   and I've I've considered there have been [TS]

00:47:20   a couple of times when I was like what [TS]

00:47:22   if I just went what if I just had a [TS]

00:47:25   YouTube where I just read things aloud [TS]

00:47:28   if I just went there and be like yeah [TS]

00:47:31   some more people would love it yeah but [TS]

00:47:33   it's just like somebody reading to them [TS]

00:47:35   who knows how to read and who likes to [TS]

00:47:40   read aloud I figured I could go on and [TS]

00:47:45   read all my old Seattle Weekly articles [TS]

00:47:47   aloud really slowly like here's the [TS]

00:47:50   thing I mean I don't know but it but I [TS]

00:47:54   would have to create enough there have [TS]

00:47:56   to be enough stuff that it would be a [TS]

00:47:58   channel rather than just like here's 15 [TS]

00:48:00   episodes of a thing I'll be nice if it [TS]

00:48:02   had something something thematic to it [TS]

00:48:04   ride themes themes would be a good theme [TS]

00:48:08   right I could read I could read aloud [TS]

00:48:11   all the like BDSM literature that's a [TS]

00:48:15   good idea or like the way you did with [TS]

00:48:17   where she can do is harm but the [TS]

00:48:20   correspondence you chose to include with [TS]

00:48:22   that wonderful booklet right John you [TS]

00:48:24   are such a bullshit artist yes [TS]

00:48:26   Oh read every angry letter I ever got [TS]

00:48:29   from anybody back so great now you go [TS]

00:48:35   listen to Spotify you're not gonna get [TS]

00:48:37   to see John's angry correspondence king [TS]

00:48:38   coming you know I got it there was [TS]

00:48:40   something on Facebook the other day from [TS]

00:48:41   someone of my generation saying do [TS]

00:48:43   people listen to albums anymore [TS]

00:48:46   but a lot of the people that replied who [TS]

00:48:48   are music business people they they [TS]

00:48:51   there was all this love for the EP which [TS]

00:48:54   you know what labels that sounds very [TS]

00:48:58   very like a retcon but you buddy well [TS]

00:49:02   you buddy peed because you were a [TS]

00:49:03   superfan and wanted this one tracker [TS]

00:49:05   because you were cheap these were never [TS]

00:49:07   the preferred way to get it it's just i [TS]

00:49:09   bought stuff on EP i eventually got [TS]

00:49:11   stuff on EP because like you would have [TS]

00:49:12   this rare version of behind the wall of [TS]

00:49:14   sleep that was live but like I'd rather [TS]

00:49:17   have you know the the original you know [TS]

00:49:19   LP well I'm like an idiot we didn't put [TS]

00:49:22   commander thanks allowed on an LP it's [TS]

00:49:25   only put it on an EP but no they were [TS]

00:49:28   saying digital EPS like you know like we [TS]

00:49:31   said any mean anymore don't release 10 [TS]

00:49:34   songs it's a very iTunes II thing like [TS]

00:49:37   when you go into iTunes and you see like [TS]

00:49:39   they might be giants obviously have done [TS]

00:49:41   this a lot of bands have done this Queen [TS]

00:49:42   have done this there's all these bands [TS]

00:49:43   with oh my god what are all of these [TS]

00:49:44   things it's just single single single [TS]

00:49:46   EEP EEP EEP it must have something to do [TS]

00:49:48   with the way that things are calculated [TS]

00:49:50   or distributed you need to EPP well but [TS]

00:49:53   I liked when I discovered I discovered a [TS]

00:49:55   new band a little bit ago and I found [TS]

00:49:58   four of their tunes like I listened to a [TS]

00:50:00   tune I liked it I listened to another [TS]

00:50:03   tune full of apprehension please don't [TS]

00:50:05   let me hate their second song I liked it [TS]

00:50:07   too this is you know where you're like [TS]

00:50:10   oh shit the hook is in and I listened to [TS]

00:50:13   a third song really crossing my fingers [TS]

00:50:15   like please don't let them only have two [TS]

00:50:17   good songs and I liked the third song [TS]

00:50:20   and by the time I got to the fourth song [TS]

00:50:22   that I liked I said enough it was like [TS]

00:50:27   blackjack it was like I'm gonna hold [TS]

00:50:30   because it can't they cannot possibly [TS]

00:50:33   take this winning streak all the way out [TS]

00:50:34   to five and I got four of them so like [TS]

00:50:37   leave me be with these four is enough [TS]

00:50:40   to listen to on repeat mr. Bandai no car [TS]

00:50:44   seat car seat headrest car seat headrest [TS]

00:50:48   aren't work by elephant but the but what [TS]

00:50:59   it struck me as was like oh shit this is [TS]

00:51:01   an EP I just self-feed this band hmm [TS]

00:51:06   yeah well interesting like four Tunes is [TS]

00:51:09   kind of can pull out four cartoons right [TS]

00:51:13   I mean if if all INXS had ever done [TS]

00:51:16   throughout their whole career was just [TS]

00:51:17   put out four songs every year and a half [TS]

00:51:20   [Music] [TS]

00:51:28   [Music] [TS]

00:51:30   becomes an e-book there will be a [TS]

00:51:32   compilation of all the things we just [TS]

00:51:33   choose to disagree on good stuff they [TS]

00:51:37   had that dream on white girl black girl [TS]

00:51:40   song I like that song [TS]

00:51:41   are you saying that you do not think [TS]

00:51:45   that INXS had any good songs no no no I [TS]

00:51:48   think she Bhushan ball had some really [TS]

00:51:49   good stuff on it and you're right three [TS]

00:51:51   P's like the weird period like before [TS]

00:51:53   they got super duper popular like a [TS]

00:51:56   period before soup and salad bar like [TS]

00:51:58   they had some really good they had some [TS]

00:52:00   really good singles for sure good [TS]

00:52:01   singles I just I think I kind of got a [TS]

00:52:04   little fatigued on there Bam Bam oh yeah [TS]

00:52:08   from kick on yeah I I can't listen to it [TS]

00:52:11   but like that early eighties stuff but I [TS]

00:52:13   like I think the one thing is really [TS]

00:52:15   good it's a really good song yeah a [TS]

00:52:17   little look um you know they were they [TS]

00:52:20   were up there with you too in terms of [TS]

00:52:22   like who was good in 1981 yeah and I [TS]

00:52:27   don't followed them all the way to the [TS]

00:52:32   first album like like a listen like [TS]

00:52:36   thieves listen like these I followed [TS]

00:52:39   them that far what pseudo salad bar that [TS]

00:52:44   was not any farther suicide blonde was [TS]

00:52:50   hell it was that 1990 [TS]

00:52:52   yeah jiminy Christmas it's late it's [TS]

00:52:55   late salad bar [TS]

00:52:57   so kick when I was in college kick was [TS]

00:53:00   popular and I felt like that was there [TS]

00:53:04   pour some sugar on me like they had they [TS]

00:53:06   jumped the shark but up until then [TS]

00:53:08   listen like thieves had had that song [TS]

00:53:12   that was very pop that I think most [TS]

00:53:15   normal people did not want to hear but I [TS]

00:53:18   did which was watch a need get me [TS]

00:53:21   watching me yeah that's that's for me [TS]

00:53:25   I'm fine with that [TS]

00:53:27   oh this time it had this time what you [TS]

00:53:29   believe last time this time is a very [TS]

00:53:31   good song like this well this is what [TS]

00:53:33   I'm saying so here we go yeah there's [TS]

00:53:35   two really good songs on on listen like [TS]

00:53:39   thieves and I do not count listen like [TS]

00:53:41   thieves the song that's one student [TS]

00:53:43   that's what you need in this time super [TS]

00:53:45   good [TS]

00:53:46   two songs and then you go back to the [TS]

00:53:50   swing the record before that and you're [TS]

00:53:53   looking like you're looking at you got [TS]

00:53:55   original sin yeah burn for you I think [TS]

00:54:01   that was that was my by year yeah only [TS]

00:54:03   one good song who Shabbat came out in [TS]

00:54:05   that crazy fucking summer summer 82 [TS]

00:54:08   there was so much good New Wave and this [TS]

00:54:11   has got oh don't change don't change is [TS]

00:54:13   a good song it's a really good song so [TS]

00:54:15   yeah there it is right there damn freak [TS]

00:54:17   salt on that record you don't have to [TS]

00:54:19   look at anything else yeah [TS]

00:54:21   and that dachshund on the cover [TS]

00:54:23   underneath the colors let's hope that [TS]

00:54:26   this continues my theory no doesn't it [TS]

00:54:29   just has that one song stay on which I [TS]

00:54:31   don't remember [TS]

00:54:33   listen 8:00 p.m. to go and then their [TS]

00:54:35   first record definitely had where was [TS]

00:54:40   why boy a black girl that's the one that [TS]

00:54:42   was an EP I think that's the dream on [TS]

00:54:44   white boy black girl so I think that's [TS]

00:54:46   easy [TS]

00:54:46   I think that's an EP let me look uh [TS]

00:54:50   countdown Awards Grammy Awards okay it [TS]

00:54:54   might be a thing that has a name that we [TS]

00:54:57   just glanced over that we don't remember [TS]

00:54:59   them I'm gonna get it I'm gonna get it [TS]

00:55:01   I'm gonna get it box that's extended [TS]

00:55:02   plays [TS]

00:55:03   ah could be wrong deca dance derp [TS]

00:55:08   deca dance is it original sin is that [TS]

00:55:10   the song no that's not it is it may be [TS]

00:55:13   original sin not going to YouTube I'll [TS]

00:55:17   cut all this out yeah no Rachel oh but [TS]

00:55:21   also I will go as far as saying that [TS]

00:55:24   never tear us apart is a good song [TS]

00:55:26   that's the one song kick that I that [TS]

00:55:29   I'll allow you just overdid it with the [TS]

00:55:32   bat down okay original sir I mean it's [TS]

00:55:35   you know it's like orc pop but I'm I'm [TS]

00:55:38   100% down with orc pop mmm I should have [TS]

00:55:43   been an orc popper what that mean [TS]

00:55:45   orchestral pop oh oh oh no no what about [TS]

00:55:48   what about it Tears for Fears where do [TS]

00:55:50   you stay one Tears for Fears today well [TS]

00:55:53   you know Tears for Fears with directions [TS]

00:55:55   back and forth in the public eye I feel [TS]

00:55:57   like you and I have talked about them [TS]

00:55:58   before probably the time I was very [TS]

00:56:01   opposed to Tears for Fears because of [TS]

00:56:02   the over emotive faces they weren't like [TS]

00:56:06   echo and the Bunnymen 2.0 for me we're [TS]

00:56:08   like I incorrectly lumped them in so in [TS]

00:56:11   my head echo in the bunny man was like [TS]

00:56:12   almost like a goth band which couldn't [TS]

00:56:14   be well not further from the truth [TS]

00:56:15   but like they were a really good guitar [TS]

00:56:17   pop band like you know fantastic songs [TS]

00:56:19   and that was bad on me for lumping them [TS]

00:56:20   in with like what I thought was like [TS]

00:56:22   silly rock and I think yeah I think [TS]

00:56:25   Tears for Fears has mostly aged pretty [TS]

00:56:28   well and there's really really really [TS]

00:56:30   good singers I you know their songs are [TS]

00:56:33   really good it was our good friend Mike [TS]

00:56:35   Squires friend of the program Mike Scott [TS]

00:56:37   program who's a metalhead who turned me [TS]

00:56:43   back around on Tears for Fears and he [TS]

00:56:45   was like hey man you got to get on the [TS]

00:56:47   right side of Tears for Fears because [TS]

00:56:49   they're great they're mine right I said [TS]

00:56:52   I don't have to get on the right side [TS]

00:56:53   anything and he was like no no seriously [TS]

00:56:55   this is a really great record and he [TS]

00:56:58   again one of these situations somebody [TS]

00:57:00   sat me down like you sat me down in [TS]

00:57:03   front of the office he sat me down in [TS]

00:57:04   front of that the tears for the tears is [TS]

00:57:08   for Fears is and and it was absolutely [TS]

00:57:13   true like George Michael says listen [TS]

00:57:14   without prejudice you get back and [TS]

00:57:15   listen to these outside of that con [TS]

00:57:17   maybe not watching the music videos [TS]

00:57:18   that's it you know cuz I see video but [TS]

00:57:23   like sowing the seeds of love it's kind [TS]

00:57:24   of a silly song but like I still think [TS]

00:57:26   that's a really a generally good psych [TS]

00:57:27   pop song but you remember you remember [TS]

00:57:29   the power you know the the power that a [TS]

00:57:36   music video had at the time so he [TS]

00:57:38   make-or-break how you felt about a thing [TS]

00:57:41   and famous cars would have gotten as big [TS]

00:57:43   as they got without the videos on [TS]

00:57:45   heartbeat city I mean the cars were [TS]

00:57:48   those songs are so great but Ric Ocasek [TS]

00:57:51   and those his faith and those crazy [TS]

00:57:54   videos and polina parts of Cova yes [TS]

00:57:58   supermodel that was all very very like [TS]

00:58:01   it was so graphic and even then bands [TS]

00:58:06   were putting out videos where it was [TS]

00:58:07   just like a camcorder and some like [TS]

00:58:11   after after effect well that's why those [TS]

00:58:13   records especially we remember when the [TS]

00:58:14   video from magic came out he was like [TS]

00:58:15   walking on water in the pool and it was [TS]

00:58:17   like oh my god because it's gonna win [TS]

00:58:19   all of the MTV like special Achievement [TS]

00:58:21   Awards and yeah I mean wasn't their [TS]

00:58:23   finest work but like its they're good [TS]

00:58:25   pop songs they had a little bit of the [TS]

00:58:26   synchronicity problem synchronicity [TS]

00:58:27   another one that goes on the list I [TS]

00:58:28   believe isn't that another one we agree [TS]

00:58:30   to disagree I'm Pro synchronicity okay [TS]

00:58:33   yeah but no is it I know that you I know [TS]

00:58:36   that you have feelings about it close to [TS]

00:58:38   the machine baby [TS]

00:58:39   I mean post synchronicity you know what [TS]

00:58:43   is there Russians Russians love their [TS]

00:58:45   children too but with rhyming dictionary [TS]

00:58:48   famously Billy Squier came out with that [TS]

00:58:52   music video where he would see him sing [TS]

00:58:55   rock mean Internet in a in a pink tank [TS]

00:58:58   top that was that was the the room of [TS]

00:59:01   its time that that is a very difficult [TS]

00:59:03   video to watch today yeah well and and [TS]

00:59:06   his record sales went away yeah [TS]

00:59:08   apparently because of the video but a [TS]

00:59:11   lot of that stuff like the first time [TS]

00:59:12   that you saw sting in dream of the blue [TS]

00:59:14   turtles do that weird dance with his [TS]

00:59:16   Stratocaster I never wanted to I [TS]

00:59:18   wouldn't I didn't want to ever see sting [TS]

00:59:20   again I didn't want to see him right [TS]

00:59:22   because it was such a weird dance and I [TS]

00:59:25   think Tears for Fears had a lot of that [TS]

00:59:27   like just the way there the way they [TS]

00:59:29   composed there [TS]

00:59:30   while they sang it just was so emo yeah [TS]

00:59:35   I was like I don't want to watch you [TS]

00:59:36   guys here do like grossing me out with [TS]

00:59:38   your emo it's unseemly it's that that [TS]

00:59:44   was it that was a kind of like a strat [TS]

00:59:45   dance that I think like been from Death [TS]

00:59:48   Cab kind of refined into making his own [TS]

00:59:50   thing he he has a special guitar dance [TS]

00:59:52   that I think is very effective he does a [TS]

00:59:55   hip a hip a rhythmic not in a sexy way [TS]

00:59:57   but a rhythmic hip thrusting thing [TS]