Roderick on the Line

Ep. 278: "Felix"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick online was [TS]

00:00:01   recorded on Tuesday January 23rd 2018 [TS]

00:00:06   [Music] [TS]

00:00:10   I'm Merlin how's it going how did you [TS]

00:00:26   missing yeah all right in a week no I I [TS]

00:00:38   feel like we should come clean no no no [TS]

00:00:40   I never come clean the dentist I should [TS]

00:00:51   have done it today it's okay it's all [TS]

00:00:53   right it's all right be fine I'm sure [TS]

00:00:55   it'll be fine - it's a it's a big [TS]

00:00:57   rainstorm today here big rainstorm yeah [TS]

00:01:00   you know in the morning it it was it was [TS]

00:01:03   clear and and almost almost sunny and [TS]

00:01:07   now the big storms coming in a storm and [TS]

00:01:09   I have a I don't know if you are [TS]

00:01:12   interested in the weather my family [TS]

00:01:15   really cares about the weather your [TS]

00:01:17   memory serves your mom goes pretty deep [TS]

00:01:19   on weather oh my sister's even worse oh [TS]

00:01:21   really [TS]

00:01:22   yeah just all they want to talk about is [TS]

00:01:25   the freakin weather and I thought I [TS]

00:01:29   thought that Susan was more like looking [TS]

00:01:31   at the stars kind of situation oh she [TS]

00:01:33   loves looking at the stars - yeah yep [TS]

00:01:35   stars stars are kind of weather [TS]

00:01:37   stars are yab that stars are like or [TS]

00:01:39   what we call old web we're seeing we're [TS]

00:01:42   seeing we're seeing a star what a star [TS]

00:01:44   look like millions of years ago is that [TS]

00:01:46   mind-blowing [TS]

00:01:47   you know the entire universe could be [TS]

00:01:49   just a molecule in the end of your [TS]

00:01:51   finger whoa [TS]

00:01:52   so what's oh wait a minute so you're [TS]

00:01:55   saying could be in my finger I'm saying [TS]

00:01:56   it could be in your finger universe does [TS]

00:01:58   not know where that thing has been MGM [TS]

00:02:02   cr-v we could we could right now be a [TS]

00:02:06   molecule in the thumb Oh some giant [TS]

00:02:08   being who has his thumb up do you think [TS]

00:02:11   kids still get tripped out when they [TS]

00:02:13   think about things like that when you go [TS]

00:02:14   through that like stony like first time [TS]

00:02:17   you really contemplate the idea of [TS]

00:02:19   infinity the first time you wonder if [TS]

00:02:21   we're all seeing this [TS]

00:02:22   color green you think kids these [TS]

00:02:24   millenniums you think they still have [TS]

00:02:25   those kinds of reveries oh yeah I worry [TS]

00:02:27   that they don't you have to you know I [TS]

00:02:30   bet you get Netflix and you got the [TS]

00:02:32   snapchat you know they don't have to [TS]

00:02:34   contemplate things that are that are [TS]

00:02:36   recursive and hurtful to the brain it's [TS]

00:02:38   not you know I think that we didn't have [TS]

00:02:41   them in the popular culture and so when [TS]

00:02:44   you heard when you heard something like [TS]

00:02:46   that in in Animal House [TS]

00:02:51   well when Donald Sutherland is passing [TS]

00:02:53   adjoin around and they're like you know [TS]

00:02:55   it actually had the force of novelty [TS]

00:02:58   sure and I think if you grew up you know [TS]

00:03:01   soaked in stuff it would be a little bit [TS]

00:03:04   harder to get to that place but [TS]

00:03:05   absolutely the moment it actually occurs [TS]

00:03:08   to you I think it still got to be like I [TS]

00:03:12   have a terrible time blowin my [TS]

00:03:13   daughter's mind I've tried so many times [TS]

00:03:15   I've been I've been trying to get her [TS]

00:03:17   freaked out about infinity for years and [TS]

00:03:19   she still she still hasn't freaked out [TS]

00:03:20   by it by infinity [TS]

00:03:22   I mean I still struggle with with string [TS]

00:03:30   theory think about it all the time and I [TS]

00:03:32   just can't there's just some things I [TS]

00:03:34   can't resolve yeah I mean does does P [TS]

00:03:37   equal NP is a big question let's check [TS]

00:03:40   reddit but we I mean you know multiple [TS]

00:03:45   universes I mean you could sit and think [TS]

00:03:47   about it at great length [TS]

00:03:49   still still mind-blowing I think it's [TS]

00:03:52   one reason I was so attracted I had very [TS]

00:03:55   little exposure to philosophy before [TS]

00:03:57   college and then I read up I read some [TS]

00:03:59   existentialist stuff in my my gap year [TS]

00:04:02   and I got very interested in philosophy [TS]

00:04:05   because it seemed like kind of like you [TS]

00:04:08   know universe in a finger with a [TS]

00:04:09   graduate degree kind of thing like idea [TS]

00:04:11   of epistemology was very fascinating to [TS]

00:04:13   me like how do we know what we know but [TS]

00:04:16   that would just turn my brain maybe I'm [TS]

00:04:18   just a simple farm boy from Cincinnati [TS]

00:04:20   but like that kind of thing would just [TS]

00:04:21   bend my brain you you think therefore [TS]

00:04:24   you are I did a paper on Descartes I [TS]

00:04:29   remember had then the final paragraph is [TS]

00:04:31   maybe second less paragraph it had this [TS]

00:04:32   very memorable line [TS]

00:04:34   so who is this guy we call God that's [TS]

00:04:38   kind of work I was doing that you need [TS]

00:04:39   you know don't put Descartes before day [TS]

00:04:42   horse oh come on [TS]

00:04:43   Oh God dad I really put that I put that [TS]

00:04:51   in a paper oh no because so I had a [TS]

00:04:55   professor who allowed us to be creative [TS]

00:04:58   hmm and and I did eh this is in the [TS]

00:05:02   history of ideas history of ideas and I [TS]

00:05:04   did a song about Descartes like the [TS]

00:05:09   style like Jonathan Richmond I think I [TS]

00:05:11   could really get into it it was pretty [TS]

00:05:12   good yeah we the the the other students [TS]

00:05:35   were like yeah that's fun yeah yeah oh [TS]

00:05:42   yeah you know there are a lot of things [TS]

00:05:43   that that that constitute an education [TS]

00:05:46   aren't there oh yeah don't don't let [TS]

00:05:48   your school get in the way of your [TS]

00:05:51   education oh thank you thank you don't [TS]

00:05:55   let your ontology recapitulate your [TS]

00:05:58   philosophy said the 30 year old guy the [TS]

00:06:00   30 year old townie with the bong things [TS]

00:06:03   change lessons that went here they my [TS]

00:06:12   tape guy hey you want to buy my CD [TS]

00:06:16   let me guess is it almost all reggae [TS]

00:06:19   yeah I went to the I went to the women's [TS]

00:06:22   March the other day and one of the great [TS]

00:06:24   things about big marches I mean this is [TS]

00:06:25   a while back sure this is a how many [TS]

00:06:27   weeks ago at this point but uh but one [TS]

00:06:29   of the great things about those rallies [TS]

00:06:31   is that there is always a kind of [TS]

00:06:35   there's always a sort of a gray area I [TS]

00:06:38   don't I wouldn't personally consider it [TS]

00:06:40   a gray area but some people clearly do [TS]

00:06:42   where they want to use that opportunity [TS]

00:06:48   to also pitch their their big program oh [TS]

00:06:54   yes and every demonstration whatever is [TS]

00:06:58   of any size I've ever been to you could [TS]

00:07:02   maybe call them fringe characters but [TS]

00:07:03   you can get you got people with a very [TS]

00:07:05   important message and they're gonna use [TS]

00:07:06   that as a platform yeah like you know in [TS]

00:07:09   a big rally like that like of course the [TS]

00:07:10   labor unions are there and they're [TS]

00:07:13   saying you know we want you to support [TS]

00:07:16   the labor union because we have a lot of [TS]

00:07:18   women in the Union yes you know and and [TS]

00:07:21   you can make a case like oh okay right [TS]

00:07:23   this is a you know absolutely absolutely [TS]

00:07:27   right it's still a co-optation of the [TS]

00:07:32   idea but you can kind of go with them [TS]

00:07:35   but there was there were a group of guys [TS]

00:07:36   standing there all men by the way [TS]

00:07:38   holding a banner that said support the [TS]

00:07:43   freedom struggle of Palestinian women [TS]

00:07:46   and then they had a bunch of material [TS]

00:07:50   about how Israel was committing a [TS]

00:07:51   genocide okay and it was like boom all [TS]

00:07:54   right I mean maybe if there were some [TS]

00:07:56   women that were holding that banner it [TS]

00:07:58   might go a little bit further but it [TS]

00:07:59   seems like he just tacked the word woman [TS]

00:08:00   on to the end of that right sure yeah [TS]

00:08:03   but they slather not some woman sauce [TS]

00:08:06   they put some woman sauce on there and [TS]

00:08:07   then there was a group that was like [TS]

00:08:09   protecting the elephants especially the [TS]

00:08:12   women voices like that's a that's a [TS]

00:08:15   that's another iteration and then at a [TS]

00:08:17   certain point oh my god I really just [TS]

00:08:19   wanted to because there was a certain [TS]

00:08:20   kind of corner where the March was [TS]

00:08:23   turning that a lot of these people had [TS]

00:08:24   had a raid and I just wanted I wanted to [TS]

00:08:27   be in a kind of like knee-length [TS]

00:08:30   leather car coat from Costco standing [TS]

00:08:34   there going you want to check out my CD [TS]

00:08:37   [Laughter] [TS]

00:08:46   I'm so much respect for women I can only [TS]

00:08:50   get it out on the Philips Compact this [TS]

00:08:52   format it's all in there [TS]

00:08:56   respect women women women are somebody [TS]

00:09:01   sometimes they confuse but they know the [TS]

00:09:05   news women break my heart and make me [TS]

00:09:15   fight their women this episode of [TS]

00:09:19   Roderick on the line is brought to you [TS]

00:09:20   in part by Casper you can learn more [TS]

00:09:22   about Casper right now by visiting [TS]

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00:10:56   thanks to Casper for supporting Roderick [TS]

00:10:58   on the line and all the great shows yeah [TS]

00:11:01   yeah you know it's it's true it shows [TS]

00:11:03   you how fractured things are things are [TS]

00:11:06   fractured things feel very fractured [TS]

00:11:08   right now there [TS]

00:11:09   so fractured a very fractured you [TS]

00:11:11   remember a few problem with the [TS]

00:11:14   Cochran's I remember how long ago it was [TS]

00:11:17   and I was telling you I was telling you [TS]

00:11:20   in the after show in the dark dark show [TS]

00:11:23   show yeah through tour yeah you can't [TS]

00:11:27   you can't you can't listen to dark [TS]

00:11:29   Roderick on the line Roderick on the [TS]

00:11:31   line after dark because it's only [TS]

00:11:33   available to subscribers but but I was [TS]

00:11:39   counseling you not to not to not to fret [TS]

00:11:42   not to fret about the Congress not to [TS]

00:11:45   fall not even to follow that story yeah [TS]

00:11:47   but I know it's hard I know it's hard [TS]

00:11:49   it's hard it's hard yeah what did you [TS]

00:11:54   know okay so you went to this mark did [TS]

00:11:56   you go to the big one last year last [TS]

00:12:00   year I have a little bit of a [TS]

00:12:01   complication that kept me out of the [TS]

00:12:03   March okay but you went this year what [TS]

00:12:05   are your impressions of the of the March [TS]

00:12:16   once the March got going I was you know [TS]

00:12:20   it's it's really exciting like there's a [TS]

00:12:22   lot there's a lot about that March [TS]

00:12:25   moving forward that felt exactly how you [TS]

00:12:28   would hope it would feel empowered [TS]

00:12:31   little girls with signs their dad made [TS]

00:12:33   for them well you know there are those [TS]

00:12:36   there's the there's the comedic aspect [TS]

00:12:37   of it which is kind of fun is marching [TS]

00:12:39   behind like several women that were [TS]

00:12:43   wearing hardhats and they all had [TS]

00:12:44   jackets on from the Carpenters Union and [TS]

00:12:46   they weren't marching as part of a union [TS]

00:12:49   they were just carpenters you had their [TS]

00:12:51   hard hats on were like here we you know [TS]

00:12:53   like fuck yeah this is exactly kind of [TS]

00:12:57   the story that they're telling a story [TS]

00:12:59   by their presence and that story is a [TS]

00:13:02   story that that often gets neglected [TS]

00:13:04   like you don't we don't as a we don't [TS]

00:13:09   typically look at a construction site [TS]

00:13:10   and and see into it it's just a [TS]

00:13:15   buildings are getting built and we don't [TS]

00:13:17   see who's there and we don't see the [TS]

00:13:19   inner politics and when we talk about [TS]

00:13:22   equal pay for equal work or we talk [TS]

00:13:24   about the workplace we kind of typically [TS]

00:13:25   picture of an office environment yeah [TS]

00:13:28   but I mean also I mean at first I want [TS]

00:13:30   to stipulate I am NOT making fun of [TS]

00:13:32   these movements or of this March I mean [TS]

00:13:33   merely groaning about the situation in [TS]

00:13:36   life but you know you think about go [TS]

00:13:38   back to Flashdance and was like oh it's [TS]

00:13:39   a sexy lady with long hair who's a [TS]

00:13:41   welder it was my back that kind of story [TS]

00:13:43   you know I mean part of the part of the [TS]

00:13:45   stop your story but part of it is that [TS]

00:13:47   like it feels like so many of the [TS]

00:13:49   amazing and wonderful and overdue [TS]

00:13:52   changes that have happened in the last [TS]

00:13:53   five to 15 years are widely adopted and [TS]

00:13:59   loved by 90% of the people on our side [TS]

00:14:03   of the aisle and so many of those [TS]

00:14:04   changes are are so threatening as to be [TS]

00:14:08   deniable to people on the other side of [TS]

00:14:11   the aisle but this is a good example of [TS]

00:14:14   one that I feel like there's no one in [TS]

00:14:17   America on either side of the aisle [TS]

00:14:19   ninety-eight percent of the people in [TS]

00:14:21   America I think would look at one of [TS]

00:14:24   these women in her heart hat with her [TS]

00:14:26   Union jacket on and go yeah fuck yeah [TS]

00:14:29   right there's no one in America anymore [TS]

00:14:32   that thinks there shouldn't be female [TS]

00:14:34   carpenters right and I think that [TS]

00:14:38   everyone in you know the most [TS]

00:14:41   conservative voter in Alabama is not [TS]

00:14:45   going to I mean there there are gonna be [TS]

00:14:47   people they're gonna be dicks and and [TS]

00:14:50   like they're gonna be dicks who no [TS]

00:14:53   matter what their political affiliation [TS]

00:14:55   when a when a woman shows up to do the [TS]

00:14:57   work on their kitchen they're gonna go [TS]

00:14:59   oh a woman's doing this job you know [TS]

00:15:03   they're and and they're gonna be dicks [TS]

00:15:04   that are both men and women that do that [TS]

00:15:06   I mean I'm sure that there are women [TS]

00:15:07   that opened the door to their house and [TS]

00:15:09   there's a woman carpenter standing there [TS]

00:15:11   and they say oh I expected a man mm-hmm [TS]

00:15:15   you know that kind of thing is just a [TS]

00:15:17   sort of cultural like ignorant or not [TS]

00:15:20   ignorance it's just a like a culture so [TS]

00:15:22   probably the lack of exposure I mean [TS]

00:15:24   like if you've got if you've got some [TS]

00:15:25   Richard Scarry idea in your head from [TS]

00:15:28   the late 1960s it's understandable that [TS]

00:15:30   that's a little bit shocking it doesn't [TS]

00:15:32   mean that you hate it but it's certainly [TS]

00:15:34   at least be shocking [TS]

00:15:35   Yeah right it's like lowly worm yeah [TS]

00:15:37   shows up to do your kitchen work and [TS]

00:15:39   you're like you're a girl worm whoo [TS]

00:15:41   that's that mr. frumble drive she's got [TS]

00:15:45   a lot of problems there are plenty of [TS]

00:15:47   cops in Richards Gary's world I don't [TS]

00:15:49   know why they don't but sergeant Murphy [TS]

00:15:51   chases careless he literally rides a [TS]

00:15:52   motorcycle onto a Plane full of people [TS]

00:15:54   you're right you're right but but the [TS]

00:16:00   other thing that I saw in this rally [TS]

00:16:02   that I'm talking about just people that [TS]

00:16:03   were marching very close to me there [TS]

00:16:05   were two women in their 60s and they [TS]

00:16:08   were both about five feet tall and they [TS]

00:16:11   were at first not clearly a couple they [TS]

00:16:16   were just too diminutive ladies in their [TS]

00:16:20   60s but one of them is holding a small [TS]

00:16:23   hand lettered sign that said that wasn't [TS]

00:16:26   like us it wasn't even a sign it was [TS]

00:16:27   just kind of like a piece of notebook [TS]

00:16:29   paper that she had written on and [TS]

00:16:31   laminated and it said we're not going [TS]

00:16:34   back and as the as the March progressed [TS]

00:16:38   I realized oh my god they're they're [TS]

00:16:42   married and they give every indication [TS]

00:16:47   of having been together for 40 years you [TS]

00:16:50   know they're they have the comfort with [TS]

00:16:54   one another that just is like it seems [TS]

00:16:56   like they've probably been together for [TS]

00:16:58   a long long time and they're not [TS]

00:17:00   demonstrative they're not even really [TS]

00:17:02   holding hands they're just walking [TS]

00:17:05   together with this sign we're not going [TS]

00:17:06   back and it was you know so so powerful [TS]

00:17:12   and I and I honestly believe having [TS]

00:17:15   traveled as much as I've been lucky to [TS]

00:17:19   do in America and around the world that [TS]

00:17:22   most people on either side of the [TS]

00:17:26   political aisle confronted with these [TS]

00:17:28   two actual human beings are not going to [TS]

00:17:32   be against it the people that are [TS]

00:17:35   against gay marriage are against it [TS]

00:17:37   because they're against an idea that [TS]

00:17:41   they think and they're against a notion [TS]

00:17:44   that we're trying to cram it down their [TS]

00:17:46   throats or I feel it feels like a like a [TS]

00:17:48   threat to their [TS]

00:17:49   idea of what a family is which which [TS]

00:17:51   they would say d legitimizes there it's [TS]

00:17:53   again it's like Ghostbusters it's like [TS]

00:17:54   you're ruining my childhood by being [TS]

00:17:56   married right but if they were living in [TS]

00:17:59   a place where they knew these two and [TS]

00:18:01   there are couples like this in Alabama [TS]

00:18:05   just like there are in Seattle a hundred [TS]

00:18:07   percent when confronted with actual [TS]

00:18:10   people pretty much everybody with the [TS]

00:18:13   exception of a few crazy zealots is [TS]

00:18:16   gonna look at them and go oh well I mean [TS]

00:18:19   I make an exception for my for my aunt [TS]

00:18:21   and her friend you know like and it's [TS]

00:18:24   not especially because they're they're [TS]

00:18:26   not too vocal about it maybe yeah sort [TS]

00:18:28   of like well there's well there's this [TS]

00:18:29   one guy I work with who's really nice [TS]

00:18:31   and he's nearing retirement age and I'm [TS]

00:18:33   pretty sure he's you know special but he [TS]

00:18:35   could he gets a pass because he's real [TS]

00:18:36   low-key about it it's not in my face [TS]

00:18:38   about it and it's not the perfect world [TS]

00:18:40   that we would that we I in the left like [TS]

00:18:45   idealize where everyone is absolutely [TS]

00:18:47   like completely forward-facing about who [TS]

00:18:52   they are and accepted broadly by [TS]

00:18:54   everyone you know it it is a kind of on [TS]

00:18:59   the right side of the aisle there is [TS]

00:19:01   this there's all this tremendous kind of [TS]

00:19:03   like what we what we think of as a [TS]

00:19:06   prehistoric social thinking but [TS]

00:19:09   confronted by actual people yeah pretty [TS]

00:19:12   much everybody is like you cannot deny a [TS]

00:19:17   thing like that you can't look at them [TS]

00:19:18   and say to their face like no you're not [TS]

00:19:22   you should not be entitled to this you [TS]

00:19:24   should not be entitled to this happiness [TS]

00:19:25   you do it's nobody would ever stand in [TS]

00:19:27   front of those people I mean the way you [TS]

00:19:29   get the idea some kind of Richard [TS]

00:19:30   Spencer type like yelling at them but [TS]

00:19:32   like after having a ten minute fifteen [TS]

00:19:33   minute conversation maybe you're on a [TS]

00:19:35   plane or something like that you would [TS]

00:19:36   never you would it would be a hard [TS]

00:19:38   harder person to turn to them and say [TS]

00:19:39   well I understand what you're trying to [TS]

00:19:41   do here but this is antithetical to [TS]

00:19:42   everything that America is and I think [TS]

00:19:44   you're evil yeah I mean and you do see [TS]

00:19:46   that I mean there are definitely parents [TS]

00:19:49   that reject their own children fewer and [TS]

00:19:53   farther between [TS]

00:19:54   I think what's I think what's crazy [TS]

00:19:57   about Trump I know we never talk about [TS]

00:20:00   politics [TS]

00:20:02   I think what's crazy is that he has [TS]

00:20:06   finally given the lie to the idea that [TS]

00:20:09   the that conservative politically [TS]

00:20:12   conservative people are the scolds and [TS]

00:20:15   the moralizing like finger wag they're [TS]

00:20:20   gonna hold privately and publicly [TS]

00:20:22   they're gonna they have a standard that [TS]

00:20:24   they will hold people to for a long time [TS]

00:20:27   you would see that played out in terms [TS]

00:20:28   of like what you have to make this cake [TS]

00:20:30   you know you know you don't have to make [TS]

00:20:31   this cake for gay people or you do not [TS]

00:20:33   have to provide women's health care [TS]

00:20:36   services because right I mean there's [TS]

00:20:39   there's those sorts of things but then [TS]

00:20:41   when you see what's happening with the [TS]

00:20:43   fairly well documented allegations [TS]

00:20:45   against the president it just doesn't [TS]

00:20:48   seem to matter and Mike Pence is totally [TS]

00:20:49   cool with it it just doesn't matter [TS]

00:20:51   right I mean it's not like it's not even [TS]

00:20:53   that I had that Trump had relationships [TS]

00:20:56   with sex workers while he while his wife [TS]

00:20:59   was pregnant we had a four month old son [TS]

00:21:02   duh Trump is famous for for riding on [TS]

00:21:06   that private jet [TS]

00:21:08   but with that pedophile guy yeah who you [TS]

00:21:12   know would like teenagers like and I [TS]

00:21:16   mean he was the source of a lot of the [TS]

00:21:17   New York Post stories about Marla maples [TS]

00:21:20   I mean he was the one that encouraged [TS]

00:21:22   her to go on say was the best best sex [TS]

00:21:24   I've ever had he drives in that [TS]

00:21:26   environment of people thinking he's a [TS]

00:21:27   very competent horndog but I think it's [TS]

00:21:29   really interesting because during the [TS]

00:21:33   Clinton years when when Bill Clinton was [TS]

00:21:35   being pounded for his for his like [TS]

00:21:40   dalliance ah's and his indiscretions and [TS]

00:21:44   his predatory behavior we I think [TS]

00:21:48   assumed that that was being motivated by [TS]

00:21:52   this religious right that we've been [TS]

00:21:55   talking about for for 40 years and that [TS]

00:21:57   they were that they were pretty and they [TS]

00:22:01   were pursuing this out of a sense of [TS]

00:22:03   this sort of moral like overactive moral [TS]

00:22:08   indignation about post moral majority [TS]

00:22:09   whether you agreed with them or not and [TS]

00:22:11   I happened very much not to agree with [TS]

00:22:13   them you'd at least given the creditors [TS]

00:22:15   well you know whether or not this is [TS]

00:22:17   something that they enjoy doing they [TS]

00:22:18   feel by their faith and ethics they are [TS]

00:22:21   obligated to call these things out on [TS]

00:22:23   anybody where they see it right right [TS]

00:22:26   it's a good it's a mr. kind of mission [TS]

00:22:28   and that gave some clarity to the [TS]

00:22:33   division between left and right because [TS]

00:22:36   we on the left could look at them and [TS]

00:22:39   say and see like okay they are bound by [TS]

00:22:42   a code that includes their religion it [TS]

00:22:46   includes their culture and it is [TS]

00:22:48   internally consistent so they are they [TS]

00:22:52   are an understandable and worthy [TS]

00:22:53   adversary even if we don't agree I mean [TS]

00:22:57   we don't agree with a lot of the [TS]

00:22:59   fundamental premises but they are acting [TS]

00:23:01   at least they're not inconsistent as far [TS]

00:23:04   as we can see I'm avoiding the word [TS]

00:23:06   hypothetical but but at least at least [TS]

00:23:09   on the face of it they may be in prison [TS]

00:23:11   I utterly disagree with them but there [TS]

00:23:13   was an internal consistency to their [TS]

00:23:15   their mass hattery [TS]

00:23:16   but it also contextualized us right [TS]

00:23:19   because as live liberals we were [TS]

00:23:21   progressive we were it [TS]

00:23:23   empathetic we were we were the ones that [TS]

00:23:28   were open minded and now or maybe [TS]

00:23:34   relativistic there's another word [TS]

00:23:35   relativistic sure you can see you would [TS]

00:23:37   see the context in something and this [TS]

00:23:39   liberal arts II thing of saying like [TS]

00:23:40   well yes but yes but so we wouldn't [TS]

00:23:43   necessarily see it as a zero no one [TS]

00:23:45   right and we were multicultural we were [TS]

00:23:47   able to say like well we you know we [TS]

00:23:50   need to incorporate things from around [TS]

00:23:53   the world and sometimes these cultural [TS]

00:23:55   differences can be advantageous you know [TS]

00:24:00   it was a kind of m'as how we saw the [TS]

00:24:05   social aspect of left and right and that [TS]

00:24:08   wasn't always the case you know back in [TS]

00:24:10   the back before World War two back [TS]

00:24:14   before the civil rights movement the [TS]

00:24:16   Republican Party was mostly focused on [TS]

00:24:19   economics and they had a pretty liberal [TS]

00:24:23   view about what a person should be able [TS]

00:24:25   to do in the [TS]

00:24:26   to their own home I'm from a certain [TS]

00:24:28   libertarian standpoint it was a temple [TS]

00:24:30   yeah and it was the Democrats that were [TS]

00:24:33   all about segregation and they were all [TS]

00:24:36   about you know the Democrats before [TS]

00:24:39   World War two were not like socially [TS]

00:24:42   progressive looks sort of the opposite [TS]

00:24:45   mm-hmm but now we're in a situation [TS]

00:24:49   where the where the right side of the [TS]

00:24:51   aisle has pretty much for the most part [TS]

00:24:53   said you know although we're Christians [TS]

00:24:56   and although we you know we believe in [TS]

00:24:59   God and country we think Trump's doing a [TS]

00:25:01   great job and although he is like a [TS]

00:25:04   coke-fueled like prostitute abusing like [TS]

00:25:10   I mean he's basically he personifies [TS]

00:25:12   everything that we would normally hate [TS]

00:25:15   disparity at the late 80s yeah we just [TS]

00:25:18   love what he's doing he's just sticking [TS]

00:25:19   it he's sticking it to the Liberals and [TS]

00:25:21   that's what we love but what's crazy is [TS]

00:25:24   the Left have become the scolds like we [TS]

00:25:28   are we are in an era right now where the [TS]

00:25:31   left is extremely moralizing and very [TS]

00:25:35   very much like driven by a by a kind of [TS]

00:25:39   collective energy that is you know [TS]

00:25:45   that's using shame and using a lot of [TS]

00:25:48   the sort of things that we would have 40 [TS]

00:25:50   years ago called moral majority tactics [TS]

00:25:54   I guess in service of a different [TS]

00:25:56   ideology but but but it's it's a very [TS]

00:26:01   strange role reversal because that's the [TS]

00:26:04   thing when I went back to my high school [TS]

00:26:05   reunion in Anchorage right before the [TS]

00:26:08   election and I talked to a bunch of my [TS]

00:26:11   pals who were all golf pros and [TS]

00:26:17   snowmobile salesmen and and diehard sort [TS]

00:26:23   of Trump people yeah they were like you [TS]

00:26:28   don't you don't see what's coming bro [TS]

00:26:29   and I was like yeah I see what's coming [TS]

00:26:32   a Hillary Clinton administration where [TS]

00:26:35   the world moves into the future and they [TS]

00:26:37   were like no no no that's not what's [TS]

00:26:40   gonna happen Trump's gonna win and I was [TS]

00:26:43   like there's no way in a million years [TS]

00:26:45   Trump's gonna win he didn't accuse [TS]

00:26:46   anyone yeah and they were like no no you [TS]

00:26:49   don't see you don't get it you don't see [TS]

00:26:51   what's happening and in talking to them [TS]

00:26:54   over the course of a long reunion [TS]

00:26:56   weekend I realized oh they think they're [TS]

00:27:01   the fun ones they think they think [TS]

00:27:04   they're hilarious they think they're the [TS]

00:27:05   ones that know how to party they think [TS]

00:27:08   they are the ones who have the real [TS]

00:27:10   temperature of what America is all about [TS]

00:27:12   the sort of Ted Nugent version of what's [TS]

00:27:17   fun and cool and they looked at me and [TS]

00:27:22   my culture I mean they know I'm fun [TS]

00:27:23   right but they look at that liberalism [TS]

00:27:25   and they think you guys aren't fun you [TS]

00:27:28   don't have fun anymore you just are so [TS]

00:27:30   uptight and you're so you know this this [TS]

00:27:33   careless caricature of the left as being [TS]

00:27:36   sort of what we used to say about the [TS]

00:27:40   moral majority just like no fun and [TS]

00:27:44   caught up in in our cane and archaic [TS]

00:27:49   ideas about what people are and I was [TS]

00:27:54   just like that was kind of that was kind [TS]

00:27:56   of when I got off Twitter I realized [TS]

00:27:57   like oh shit I don't know anything [TS]

00:27:59   anymore [TS]

00:27:59   I'm in the upside down now yeah I heard [TS]

00:28:07   something on a political podcast I was [TS]

00:28:09   listening to you this morning and guy [TS]

00:28:10   said something that I thought was it's [TS]

00:28:13   one of those things where once you you [TS]

00:28:14   can't can't unhear it get such a useful [TS]

00:28:17   paradigm is there are certain kinds of [TS]

00:28:19   issues where people rarely go back to [TS]

00:28:24   their original feeling people tend to [TS]

00:28:27   only go one way and he said he was [TS]

00:28:30   talking in particular about daca and how [TS]

00:28:32   like once you know these people who are [TS]

00:28:37   daca recipients and like once you've [TS]

00:28:39   once you've met them once you've talked [TS]

00:28:41   to them [TS]

00:28:42   you're very rarely going to become more [TS]

00:28:44   strident about thinking they should be [TS]

00:28:46   thrown out of the country you know I [TS]

00:28:47   mean and [TS]

00:28:48   he also used the example of gay marriage [TS]

00:28:50   where honestly if a big part of it and [TS]

00:28:53   in addition to certainly obviously I [TS]

00:28:54   mean this is sounds so stupid but stuff [TS]

00:28:56   like you know maybe Ellen DeGeneres but [TS]

00:28:58   stuff like seeing more gay people like [TS]

00:28:59   on TV and knowing more gay people were [TS]

00:29:02   out there that weren't dangerous [TS]

00:29:03   pedophiles that was certainly a part of [TS]

00:29:04   it but another part of it was like once [TS]

00:29:06   you it isn't like you know once you meet [TS]

00:29:08   two women who've been together since the [TS]

00:29:10   1960s yeah and it can be and are very [TS]

00:29:14   smart and charming you don't go oh boy [TS]

00:29:17   you know this makes me even madder about [TS]

00:29:18   this you know I mean there aren't that [TS]

00:29:21   many people who start out Pro gay [TS]

00:29:22   marriage and then go the other way [TS]

00:29:24   there aren't them people who start out [TS]

00:29:25   Pro daca and go back the other way I [TS]

00:29:27   don't I don't have a huge filter for [TS]

00:29:28   this it's a two-hour old idea to me but [TS]

00:29:30   I'm really interested of this idea like [TS]

00:29:32   how many issues are there like that [TS]

00:29:33   we're once people get enough exposure to [TS]

00:29:36   the actual people they look at the thing [TS]

00:29:39   really differently I'm reminded of that [TS]

00:29:41   peanuts comic where Linus is arguing [TS]

00:29:43   with Lucy and he says I love humanity [TS]

00:29:47   it's people that I hate I I think I [TS]

00:29:52   think that's absolutely true and I think [TS]

00:29:53   it is about abstract thinking you know [TS]

00:29:57   the once you are once you're capable of [TS]

00:30:02   seeing things at one abstraction which [TS]

00:30:06   by which I mean like not the people [TS]

00:30:09   immediately in front of you but you meet [TS]

00:30:11   you meet that couple that's been [TS]

00:30:12   together since the 60s and then [TS]

00:30:14   extrapolate that to imagine that there [TS]

00:30:16   are more of those that level of [TS]

00:30:20   abstraction because we here in southern [TS]

00:30:22   Washington you know that there was that [TS]

00:30:23   McSweeney's article the other day that [TS]

00:30:25   that parodied the the journalists that [TS]

00:30:29   are like going around talking to Trump [TS]

00:30:30   was just literally the next thing I was [TS]

00:30:33   going to say yes but there was one of [TS]

00:30:37   those here in Washington where some [TS]

00:30:39   reporter went down to the conservative [TS]

00:30:43   like southwestern corner of Washington [TS]

00:30:46   where they grow a lot of cranberries and [TS]

00:30:49   said like you know how does it feel down [TS]

00:30:52   here now that you know now that we're [TS]

00:30:56   cracking down on immigrants and the [TS]

00:30:59   sheriff and almost everybody they talked [TS]

00:31:02   to was [TS]

00:31:02   like well we want to crack down on [TS]

00:31:06   immigrants because they are their [TS]

00:31:09   rapists and criminals coming into the [TS]

00:31:11   country but what that law has done is it [TS]

00:31:14   like they came and got my neighbor Pablo [TS]

00:31:18   who's a great dude and he's he's gonna [TS]

00:31:22   raper he's been here four years he was [TS]

00:31:24   like he was invaluable to the community [TS]

00:31:26   and then they came and got those guys [TS]

00:31:28   that have been working on them but they [TS]

00:31:31   might say every single talking point [TS]

00:31:33   that everybody on the Left has been [TS]

00:31:34   saying right I mean right down to like [TS]

00:31:37   like this like this polish doctor in [TS]

00:31:39   Michigan who doesn't know polish because [TS]

00:31:41   he's been here since he was three right [TS]

00:31:44   that's like you how could you send it [TS]

00:31:46   back there there's not even any place to [TS]

00:31:47   send him back to he's never been there [TS]

00:31:48   and you're like yeah that's that sucks [TS]

00:31:51   that's kind of why we think this is a [TS]

00:31:52   bad idea they know but everybody has [TS]

00:31:55   their Pablo right but they don't extend [TS]

00:31:58   it right they don't extend it to the [TS]

00:32:00   abstraction of of and that's why [TS]

00:32:04   statistics are so interesting like I I [TS]

00:32:08   follow this guy on Twitter named Max [TS]

00:32:09   roser ro ser who is a statistician and [TS]

00:32:14   he really stays kind of above politics [TS]

00:32:18   he just puts in numbers [TS]

00:32:20   I think he's German and he you know not [TS]

00:32:24   to not to stereotype no but he's a [TS]

00:32:28   German statistician mm-hmm and and he is [TS]

00:32:32   you know he's always posting these [TS]

00:32:34   graphs and sort of very interesting [TS]

00:32:37   takes on on things just just crunching [TS]

00:32:40   the numbers but you look at the numbers [TS]

00:32:43   and it's like well I mean my mom sent me [TS]

00:32:45   something the other day that was like [TS]

00:32:47   immigrants from sub-saharan Africa have [TS]

00:32:51   such a greater percentage of graduate [TS]

00:32:54   degrees I mean they're like a moderator [TS]

00:32:57   college graduation rate then people who [TS]

00:32:59   are born in the United States yeah and [TS]

00:33:01   it's just impossible to argue with the [TS]

00:33:05   statistics but it is but again that is [TS]

00:33:09   an abstraction that it's I think much [TS]

00:33:13   easier for people to [TS]

00:33:15   - to see the abstraction in the other [TS]

00:33:18   direction which is well I watch cops [TS]

00:33:20   every week and every single person they [TS]

00:33:22   pull over an arrest is black used to [TS]

00:33:25   watch that show therefore every criminal [TS]

00:33:28   in America is black right because that's [TS]

00:33:30   what's on cops and that's that's much [TS]

00:33:36   easier to apprehend then wait a minute [TS]

00:33:39   the people that are immigrating to the [TS]

00:33:40   United States from other countries are [TS]

00:33:42   the best educated and best qualified [TS]

00:33:46   people because it's really hard to [TS]

00:33:47   immigrate to America you have to put up [TS]

00:33:50   with so much shit [TS]

00:33:51   it's insane yeah and you know and even [TS]

00:33:54   people that are entering the country [TS]

00:33:56   illegally are people who are aspiring [TS]

00:34:00   you know they are people that are [TS]

00:34:02   seeking something great and not people [TS]

00:34:07   that are complacent or lazy or dumb you [TS]

00:34:10   know [TS]

00:34:11   nobody makes it all the way to America [TS]

00:34:13   and gets a shitty job from wherever [TS]

00:34:17   they're coming from because they are [TS]

00:34:18   just lazy you know they're enterprising [TS]

00:34:22   but it's you know I don't know speaking [TS]

00:34:27   as someone who's a liberal it's very [TS]

00:34:35   hard for me not to feel like it's not [TS]

00:34:40   just that my views are better it's that [TS]

00:34:45   my views are more accurate and that's [TS]

00:34:48   all maybe that at least in your own head [TS]

00:34:50   is slightly better tested well or I mean [TS]

00:34:54   just just there's so much there's just [TS]

00:34:56   so much reckoning going on about [TS]

00:34:59   strangers there's just so much reckoning [TS]

00:35:01   going on about millions of people who [TS]

00:35:04   are disadvantaged culturally in a way [TS]

00:35:08   that so many of that 32% are 36% are not [TS]

00:35:13   and yet they have found some way to find [TS]

00:35:16   a grievant in every cultural improvement [TS]

00:35:18   in the last 50 years every every time [TS]

00:35:21   somebody who's not them gets something [TS]

00:35:22   it's a zero-sum game like everything [TS]

00:35:24   everything that somebody who has always [TS]

00:35:26   been treated like shit for their and [TS]

00:35:28   our life gets is necessarily one less [TS]

00:35:31   thing that they get in their mind that [TS]

00:35:33   tends to be the yeah it tends to be the [TS]

00:35:36   feeling but then like today oh sorry [TS]

00:35:39   a couple couple weeks ago the president [TS]

00:35:41   has decided you know because he's saving [TS]

00:35:43   coal so now he's gonna put a tariff on [TS]

00:35:46   imports of solar energy things so energy [TS]

00:35:49   one of the one of the bright spots if [TS]

00:35:50   you like to coin a pun [TS]

00:35:52   one of the bright spots in growth like [TS]

00:35:54   one in five new jobs suppose something [TS]

00:35:55   like that as it is in solar it's going [TS]

00:35:57   way way up while Cole's was going way [TS]

00:35:58   way down and now they're making it more [TS]

00:36:00   costly to have this this huge exploding [TS]

00:36:02   growth growth area that actually could [TS]

00:36:04   benefit the people who still think [TS]

00:36:05   they're gonna be back in the mind any [TS]

00:36:07   day now but and that's an example of a [TS]

00:36:11   band I think is really intriguing about [TS]

00:36:13   the cultural divide that we're [TS]

00:36:15   experiencing right now which is that I [TS]

00:36:19   think that there are a lot of people in [TS]

00:36:22   America that will celebrate that event [TS]

00:36:28   based exclusively on this idea that it's [TS]

00:36:35   a it's a big middle finger to the [TS]

00:36:39   hippies and I mean I drove across the [TS]

00:36:42   country a couple of years ago when I [TS]

00:36:44   bought my suburban which admittedly is a [TS]

00:36:47   hilariously like old janky American [TS]

00:36:54   truck and through the whole center of [TS]

00:36:57   the country I encountered many many [TS]

00:36:59   times those guys who are burning coal [TS]

00:37:01   which is they they put a giant [TS]

00:37:05   smokestack on their diesel truck and [TS]

00:37:07   they adjust B the mixture so that when [TS]

00:37:14   they slam on the gas it just sends huge [TS]

00:37:17   black clouds of smoke out of their [TS]

00:37:20   tailpipes with no purpose other than to [TS]

00:37:26   give you that Ted Nugent fuck you and [TS]

00:37:29   they're not driving those trucks in the [TS]

00:37:32   middle of San Francisco they're driving [TS]

00:37:33   them in Nebraska they're saying fuck you [TS]

00:37:35   to the idea of a liberal [TS]

00:37:40   there aren't any around them they're [TS]

00:37:42   just doing it as like as a middle finger [TS]

00:37:45   to people who aren't even watching and [TS]

00:37:47   that that conviction that that strong [TS]

00:37:53   strong feeling that the real enemy is is [TS]

00:38:00   this caricature of someone kind of not [TS]

00:38:06   unlike you or I but certainly like we're [TS]

00:38:10   we are closer or more adjacent to this [TS]

00:38:12   caricature than we are to the to to like [TS]

00:38:18   the audience and a Darius Rucker concert [TS]

00:38:21   but but this idea of someone with a [TS]

00:38:28   college degree who thinks they're [TS]

00:38:30   smarter than you who wants to quote [TS]

00:38:33   unquote ram down your throats these [TS]

00:38:38   ideas that that really have nothing to [TS]

00:38:41   do with the fact that you get along [TS]

00:38:43   pretty well with your gay neighbors but [TS]

00:38:45   have everything to do with the idea that [TS]

00:38:47   we are we have a vision which is of this [TS]

00:38:52   to this future universe where where [TS]

00:38:58   there's no manufacturing in America [TS]

00:39:01   anymore that it's all been outsourced [TS]

00:39:03   and the government is in charge of [TS]

00:39:06   everything take your guns away take your [TS]

00:39:11   guns away except that the government [TS]

00:39:13   allows you to do whatever you want [TS]

00:39:18   include including be a pedophile or a or [TS]

00:39:22   like sex with animals or whatever it is [TS]

00:39:25   that they extend this this criticism out [TS]

00:39:29   to you know like this weird this weird [TS]

00:39:32   idea of a liberal as someone who both [TS]

00:39:35   wants to have complete like lawlessness [TS]

00:39:41   on one side what they considered [TS]

00:39:43   lawlessness on one side of the world [TS]

00:39:45   they want to be this like Caligula n-- [TS]

00:39:48   Bacchanalia on the one side even as [TS]

00:39:50   they're taking away everything that [TS]

00:39:52   gives your life meaning enjoy [TS]

00:39:53   right so you're no longer allowed to [TS]

00:39:55   worship your god you're no longer [TS]

00:39:57   allowed to salute your flag we don't [TS]

00:40:00   support the troops we don't allow you to [TS]

00:40:01   have guns we tax all your money away to [TS]

00:40:05   give it to undeserving poor people the [TS]

00:40:09   abortion having trans people abortion [TS]

00:40:11   having trans people who are just living [TS]

00:40:12   on welfare and this is the vision of the [TS]

00:40:16   world that we that that that they [TS]

00:40:19   perceive us desiring and a lot of us are [TS]

00:40:23   dupes right we are leftist dupes of we [TS]

00:40:28   have taken the red pill we haven't taken [TS]

00:40:30   the red pill that's right the Jews are [TS]

00:40:32   controlling our government and and we [TS]

00:40:36   are just like enthrall we're in this [TS]

00:40:41   kind of days of of almost like romantic [TS]

00:40:47   thrall to the idea of inclusiveness that [TS]

00:40:51   is going to create a world where we're [TS]

00:40:54   under Sharia law so it's almost like [TS]

00:40:59   some kind of like a 50s movie where [TS]

00:41:02   there's a there's a working ranch and [TS]

00:41:04   some sissy dandy in a suit comes to [TS]

00:41:08   visit and then wants to tell them how to [TS]

00:41:10   run a ranch mm-hmm right or like yeah is [TS]

00:41:14   sitting in the sitting in the scenic [TS]

00:41:16   carriage Fanning himself with that with [TS]

00:41:18   a lace hanky and then telling you how to [TS]

00:41:20   run the ranch while he's sitting on his [TS]

00:41:21   ass mining Bitcoin well you know in a [TS]

00:41:23   way it's almost it's closer to the [TS]

00:41:26   character of the environmental [TS]

00:41:30   protection guy in Ghostbusters movie [TS]

00:41:35   that movie you know yeah he's the only [TS]

00:41:39   good guy this man has no dick when you [TS]

00:41:46   watch that film you hear everything [TS]

00:41:50   about it is like this guy is the worst [TS]

00:41:52   version of a Carter Administration [TS]

00:41:55   bureaucrat mm-hm and the the only way he [TS]

00:41:59   makes money is by causing trouble and [TS]

00:42:01   hardship for hardworking Americans for [TS]

00:42:04   hardworking Americans who are just [TS]

00:42:05   trying to bust just trying to [TS]

00:42:06   to go so it makes them feel good and [TS]

00:42:07   it's a politically a weird movie because [TS]

00:42:10   though because the Ghostbusters are our [TS]

00:42:13   academics and they're like [TS]

00:42:16   devil-may-care but they're really I mean [TS]

00:42:20   when you look at it now sure there they [TS]

00:42:22   are you know they're kind of politically [TS]

00:42:26   pretty Trumpy in terms of of how they [TS]

00:42:30   approach dealing you know dealing with [TS]

00:42:34   government people I'm watching almost [TS]

00:42:35   any thriller from the last 30 years so [TS]

00:42:39   the bad guys always the administrator [TS]

00:42:41   right well no but also just the good [TS]

00:42:43   guys I mean certainly you go would you [TS]

00:42:45   go back to something like Charles [TS]

00:42:45   Bronson Klee nice wait but I'm talking [TS]

00:42:47   even like I rewatched taken which is a [TS]

00:42:49   movie that I like a lot I hadn't watched [TS]

00:42:51   it since the last election and I just [TS]

00:42:53   watched it the other night and I was [TS]

00:42:54   like wow this is really it's kind of a [TS]

00:42:57   testament to how dads are right and and [TS]

00:43:00   by any means necessary we do what we [TS]

00:43:02   need to do because daughter it's like I [TS]

00:43:04   mean it's really it is it is in some [TS]

00:43:06   ways very much like a death wish [TS]

00:43:09   kind of moving in a lot of ways I mean [TS]

00:43:12   you mean just like that they're just [TS]

00:43:13   like the the non authoritarian what's [TS]

00:43:16   the word I'm looking for [TS]

00:43:17   but like oh like in that movies just [TS]

00:43:19   like he keeps worn everything taken no [TS]

00:43:22   is this is this retired like ops guy is [TS]

00:43:28   you know now he's away from his his wife [TS]

00:43:30   and daughter the daughters gonna go to [TS]

00:43:31   Europe and he's like no no you can't go [TS]

00:43:33   and if you go you got to take this phone [TS]

00:43:34   and answer my calls a spoiler alert she [TS]

00:43:36   gets abducted he has to go and find her [TS]

00:43:38   they've now drugged her and turned her [TS]

00:43:40   into a prostitute she and her friend and [TS]

00:43:42   he's got to go rescue her from all these [TS]

00:43:44   Eastern European baddies and of course [TS]

00:43:46   he just beats it's great movie he beats [TS]

00:43:48   the shit out of everybody kills [TS]

00:43:49   everybody and saves them and then like [TS]

00:43:51   you were shown that once a fraud dad [TS]

00:43:53   always knew what was right and finally [TS]

00:43:55   that violence that he has had inside of [TS]

00:43:58   him all that time was there for a good [TS]

00:43:59   reason [TS]

00:43:59   yeah yeah I mean that's the best lesson [TS]

00:44:02   to be gleaned that's the cookie cutter [TS]

00:44:04   thriller lesson right the yeah the this [TS]

00:44:08   the the quiet Stern dad has just been [TS]

00:44:13   pushed a little too far yeah had had the [TS]

00:44:16   truth about the world the whole time [TS]

00:44:18   and I bet that libertarianism combined [TS]

00:44:22   with that sort of I guess what what now [TS]

00:44:26   we would just describe with with no [TS]

00:44:29   other with no other conditions we would [TS]

00:44:32   just call it patriarchy or patriarchal [TS]

00:44:34   mentality I mean that's like it's a [TS]

00:44:38   ribbon through everything yeah and there [TS]

00:44:41   there was a time until recently where [TS]

00:44:47   where our take on that was a lot more [TS]

00:44:51   complex than it is now and it doesn't [TS]

00:44:54   feel like this is a time when we can [TS]

00:44:56   afford to be complex this is another [TS]

00:44:59   thing that has caused me to to feel [TS]

00:45:03   personally like it this is just a time [TS]

00:45:04   for me to sit out and and it's because [TS]

00:45:09   it's very hard for me to look at things [TS]

00:45:11   and not look at them and try to see the [TS]

00:45:15   complexity in them and when you want to [TS]

00:45:18   talk at least publicly now about ideas [TS]

00:45:20   that are complex you're immediately [TS]

00:45:23   challenged because it doesn't because [TS]

00:45:26   complexity just doesn't want a [TS]

00:45:28   revolutionary yeah that's right if we're [TS]

00:45:30   living in a bicameral world now that [TS]

00:45:33   feels very black and white and so you [TS]

00:45:36   can't say like you can't really approach [TS]

00:45:40   anything at least publicly at least in a [TS]

00:45:43   public-facing way without taking a [TS]

00:45:47   pretty dogmatic side and I just can't I [TS]

00:45:49   just can't swallow it but yeah but you [TS]

00:45:52   know in in our history a lot of the [TS]

00:45:56   things that we look at and say that's [TS]

00:45:58   what is American you know that's what [TS]

00:46:01   made made us exceptional that is what we [TS]

00:46:04   have always talked about as the American [TS]

00:46:06   spirit and it isn't it isn't [TS]

00:46:10   inextricably connected to white [TS]

00:46:12   supremacy or to patriarchy there there [TS]

00:46:15   are attitudes that are distinctively [TS]

00:46:17   American that we have made us proud for [TS]

00:46:20   200 years and that those ideas are like [TS]

00:46:23   individuality individualism I guess more [TS]

00:46:27   than individuality and that can-do [TS]

00:46:31   spirit and [TS]

00:46:32   [Music] [TS]

00:46:34   I mean all that all that sort of go [TS]

00:46:37   get'em USA rah-rah stuff but there's a [TS]

00:46:40   lot of there's a lot interesting about [TS]

00:46:42   it there's a lot that's true about it [TS]

00:46:43   and and I think on the right side of the [TS]

00:46:47   aisle they feel like they are the ob [TS]

00:46:51   inheritors or the protectors of some of [TS]

00:46:53   those enshrined ideas and and on the [TS]

00:46:59   Left I mean the you know there are a lot [TS]

00:47:01   of liberal Patriots and I and I include [TS]

00:47:05   myself like when I see people on the [TS]

00:47:08   left say America is a garbage country [TS]

00:47:11   and always has been I'm like I'm sorry [TS]

00:47:14   you're wrong like you're just deeply [TS]

00:47:17   profoundly wrong and that might feel [TS]

00:47:19   good to say and that might feel like a [TS]

00:47:21   like year on their side of the room I [TS]

00:47:24   mean Jimmy but it was an evolving [TS]

00:47:25   garbage fire like the the strides were [TS]

00:47:28   taken every few years where things got a [TS]

00:47:30   little better in one way no they were [TS]

00:47:31   not always good and sometimes it does [TS]

00:47:33   take a miniature revolution but that's [TS]

00:47:35   that's what is it the long arc of [TS]

00:47:36   history right is that like things really [TS]

00:47:38   have gotten better in many quantifiable [TS]

00:47:41   ways for a lot of people and it's taken [TS]

00:47:43   a long time to get around to other [TS]

00:47:44   people who need that and that progress [TS]

00:47:46   was being made for a time it's it's that [TS]

00:47:50   progress is still being it's weirdly [TS]

00:47:52   Puttanesca though to find this both [TS]

00:47:54   sides ISM and going oh well you know [TS]

00:47:56   unless you were this kind of person so [TS]

00:47:57   yeah that was true but like we're [TS]

00:47:59   working on that that actually is that [TS]

00:48:00   actually is getting better it's yeah [TS]

00:48:03   it's I mean I know that's super easy for [TS]

00:48:05   me to say but I think there's evidence [TS]

00:48:07   out there that until fairly recently [TS]

00:48:08   things really were on a pretty [TS]

00:48:12   interesting upward incline and now now I [TS]

00:48:15   think it's just a waiting I mean hate to [TS]

00:48:16   cut to the chase but a lot of there's [TS]

00:48:17   just no demographics King demographics [TS]

00:48:19   game it's just a matter of waiting to [TS]

00:48:21   age out the assholes well it is but I [TS]

00:48:24   mean I don't think it's easy for you to [TS]

00:48:25   say I think it is I think it's a [TS]

00:48:27   challenge to remind ourselves that if [TS]

00:48:30   you watch the news every day and if you [TS]

00:48:33   see you know if you see the bad things [TS]

00:48:36   that are being reported in the way that [TS]

00:48:37   the in the way that they are like yeah [TS]

00:48:39   this feels like a time where we're [TS]

00:48:41   falling back or whether it [TS]

00:48:42   evil is ascendant but actually things [TS]

00:48:45   are getting better everyday in everyway [TS]

00:48:48   and the you know the rule of law is [TS]

00:48:52   gonna triumph and I mean what you don't [TS]

00:48:55   think of is ten years ago all the things [TS]

00:48:57   that all the terrible things that were [TS]

00:48:59   happening all the people that were [TS]

00:49:00   getting deported all survived 1968 we [TS]

00:49:03   can survive almost anything well sure [TS]

00:49:05   would survive 1985 but I mean I think [TS]

00:49:09   yeah good you're breaking up a little [TS]

00:49:12   bit oh I'm sorry [TS]

00:49:15   hello hey are you BitTorrent hello hello [TS]

00:49:18   I hear you do you know I'm I hear you I [TS]

00:49:21   think you fire me yeah keep going I'll [TS]

00:49:23   put a marker here and take this out okay [TS]

00:49:26   I think you're all right [TS]

00:49:27   I just I mean I believe in the American [TS]

00:49:31   experiment I don't believe that the [TS]

00:49:33   United States is a trash fire I think if [TS]

00:49:35   you go back to 1780 [TS]

00:49:38   and you look at every other nation on [TS]

00:49:40   earth and compare our founding to theirs [TS]

00:49:44   or to their status then and if you go [TS]

00:49:47   back to 1900 if you go back to 1865 if [TS]

00:49:51   you go anywhere in history and do a line [TS]

00:49:54   by line comparison to what was happening [TS]

00:49:56   in the United States you're gonna find [TS]

00:49:59   that there aren't very many places that [TS]

00:50:01   you can look at and say oh wow the US [TS]

00:50:05   was really evil compared to right I mean [TS]

00:50:08   the United Kingdom abolished slavery a [TS]

00:50:11   lot sooner than America did but sooner [TS]

00:50:16   by a factor of 40 years like it's not [TS]

00:50:20   like it's not like Britain had outlawed [TS]

00:50:22   slavery in 1500 and we were some kind of [TS]

00:50:25   South Africa that persisted like it was [TS]

00:50:29   an evolving process and you know to look [TS]

00:50:32   back at the history of American say that [TS]

00:50:34   we're we have blood on our hands is only [TS]

00:50:38   to fail to look back at the history of [TS]

00:50:40   the world and see that everyone has [TS]

00:50:42   blood on their hands that no one there's [TS]

00:50:45   no nation on earth that is absolved if [TS]

00:50:50   the nation of Belgium continued to [TS]

00:50:52   exploit their colonies in Africa until [TS]

00:50:56   the fifties and exploit them in ways [TS]

00:50:59   that would would you know burn your [TS]

00:51:02   eyebrows oh is that like Congo yeah it's [TS]

00:51:05   a dozen colony yeah the Congo which is [TS]

00:51:08   an enormous the the entire Central [TS]

00:51:13   Africa and they you know they were I [TS]

00:51:16   mean they were brutal there but nobody [TS]

00:51:18   looks at Belgium and says like oh what a [TS]

00:51:20   knee I mean I guess the Belgians do and [TS]

00:51:22   people in Europe that know that story [TS]

00:51:24   but the whole idea that like America is [TS]

00:51:27   a terrible place it's just it's just [TS]

00:51:28   wrong we have been in we have been [TS]

00:51:30   setting the tempo for 200 years for the [TS]

00:51:35   extension and expansion of rights to the [TS]

00:51:37   greatest number of people and political [TS]

00:51:41   rights and social evolution like it's [TS]

00:51:43   been happening here and other people [TS]

00:51:47   have other countries have been following [TS]

00:51:49   in our wake and I know there are a lot [TS]

00:51:50   of Europeans who want to who want to [TS]

00:51:52   point to their their own country's [TS]

00:51:56   contributions to that but I think you [TS]

00:52:00   would have a hard time making a case [TS]

00:52:01   that certainly that that many countries [TS]

00:52:06   in Western Europe have been working on [TS]

00:52:09   that project any earlier than about 1960 [TS]

00:52:12   you know what I mean like I mean so and [TS]

00:52:15   and the United Kingdom obviously like a [TS]

00:52:17   separate they have a sort of separate [TS]

00:52:21   dispensation but they're it's not like [TS]

00:52:23   they've been a liberal democracy this [TS]

00:52:25   whole time but you know it's I'm just [TS]

00:52:29   I'm rehashing something that everybody [TS]

00:52:31   has said every day for over a year now [TS]

00:52:33   but the part the part and why I've read [TS]

00:52:35   about Congress in particular is that you [TS]

00:52:38   know whether or not what James Buchanan [TS]

00:52:43   you know Herbert Hoover warren g harding [TS]

00:52:45   you know you got you got these [TS]

00:52:47   characters that you run into the maybe [TS]

00:52:49   aren't the best example of American [TS]

00:52:51   exceptionalism but like by and large [TS]

00:52:53   most people who were in the White House [TS]

00:52:54   at least bought the best lies about you [TS]

00:52:58   got it you got to bring Harding into [TS]

00:52:59   this at least most most people whether [TS]

00:53:05   or not Bill Clinton is the best human [TS]

00:53:07   being or [TS]

00:53:08   you know George I mean I'm not here to [TS]

00:53:11   rehabilitate the reputation of george w [TS]

00:53:12   bush but boy by comparison but i mean at [TS]

00:53:16   least i mean george w bush may have been [TS]

00:53:18   a not very bright dry drunk but i think [TS]

00:53:21   in his heart he probably believed a lot [TS]

00:53:23   of the better truths and and some of the [TS]

00:53:25   more interesting lies about america that [TS]

00:53:26   let's we'll be able to get through it [TS]

00:53:27   from week to week and certainly think [TS]

00:53:29   brock obama believed it big time do you [TS]

00:53:31   remember two years ago we still said [TS]

00:53:34   things like george bush was the worst [TS]

00:53:36   president i know i know two years and [TS]

00:53:38   now he just seems like uh if we could [TS]

00:53:40   only go back to to a day when the [TS]

00:53:43   president knew which side of his body [TS]

00:53:45   his heart was on right right but but [TS]

00:53:47   that's on the one hand though you've got [TS]

00:53:49   somebody in there who clearly i mean [TS]

00:53:53   setting aside all the narcissism and all [TS]

00:53:54   that kind of stuff but it's somebody who [TS]

00:53:55   clearly does not like the actual the [TS]

00:54:00   real stuff that has made America great [TS]

00:54:01   and has no respect for the agreed upon [TS]

00:54:04   lies that made America pretty good he [TS]

00:54:06   just doesn't care he's fine to burn it [TS]

00:54:08   all down I'm even gonna set aside the [TS]

00:54:10   mental stuff for now but just even just [TS]

00:54:12   the ability to like as they say you know [TS]

00:54:14   he's gonna be persuaded by the last you [TS]

00:54:16   know general that he talked to as far as [TS]

00:54:18   what he thinks from now on that's not [TS]

00:54:20   bad enough like I actually think we [TS]

00:54:22   could survive that fine if the check on [TS]

00:54:24   that should be people who know better in [TS]

00:54:26   Congress never side you're on and the [TS]

00:54:29   fact that this is I mean I understand [TS]

00:54:30   the whole basis of there's a reason they [TS]

00:54:31   call it politics it's not Paul a friend [TS]

00:54:33   like I get that but like there's just [TS]

00:54:36   there's something so upsetting to me [TS]

00:54:37   about how you brought to you in part by [TS]

00:54:49   squarespace you can learn more about [TS]

00:54:51   Squarespace right now by going to [TS]

00:54:52   squarespace.com I'm a huge fan of [TS]

00:54:54   Squarespace as a listener of this show [TS]

00:54:56   you are using Squarespace right now [TS]

00:54:58   because that is where we host the [TS]

00:54:59   Roderick on the line podcast thank you [TS]

00:55:02   to Squarespace it's not just for podcast [TS]

00:55:04   there are so many things you can do with [TS]

00:55:05   Squarespace you can create a beautiful [TS]

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00:55:10   you can have a blog or publish other [TS]

00:55:12   kinds of text content you can even sell [TS]

00:55:14   products and services of all kinds you [TS]

00:55:16   can promote your physical or online [TS]

00:55:18   business you can announce an upcoming [TS]

00:55:19   event or projects so much more it's [TS]

00:55:22   all part of Squarespace Squarespace [TS]

00:55:24   that's all this by giving you beautiful [TS]

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00:56:05   you make it yourself it's all in there [TS]

00:56:07   you don't need another person you can [TS]

00:56:08   just do it all take it dreaming make it [TS]

00:56:10   with Squarespace so please right now go [TS]

00:56:12   to Squarespace comm for a free trial and [TS]

00:56:15   when you're ready to launch use the [TS]

00:56:16   offer code supertrain to save 10% off [TS]

00:56:18   your first purchase of a website or [TS]

00:56:21   domain our thanks to Squarespace for [TS]

00:56:23   supporting roderick on the line and all [TS]

00:56:25   the great shows you know you just keep [TS]

00:56:28   hoping you know you guys you know what [TS]

00:56:31   is it I posted up I posted a really cool [TS]

00:56:35   painting of Cthulhu the other day with [TS]

00:56:38   two guys in a rowboat running away from [TS]

00:56:40   it and the New Yorker stock caption I [TS]

00:56:42   gave to it was well that's not diagnosed [TS]

00:56:45   from a distance it's like how how how [TS]

00:56:49   far is it gonna go before we say this is [TS]

00:56:51   I mean is it gives it gives it the worst [TS]

00:56:53   thing that keeps us all up but is it [TS]

00:56:55   gonna be little Rocket Man shooting at [TS]

00:56:56   us what's it gonna be before people go [TS]

00:56:58   dude you got a fucking toilet down like [TS]

00:57:00   you've got away please learn to pretend [TS]

00:57:02   like you're the fucking president and [TS]

00:57:03   like whoo there's just nobody doing that [TS]

00:57:06   and and that and so I guess what I'm [TS]

00:57:08   trying to say is it like I am NOT here [TS]

00:57:10   to whitewash and I choose that word [TS]

00:57:13   carefully whitewash over the very [TS]

00:57:14   problematic history of the United States [TS]

00:57:15   but like there is us there is a self [TS]

00:57:19   fixing nature to America that takes a [TS]

00:57:21   long time that I do believe in I don't [TS]

00:57:24   know if I'm always right but I do at [TS]

00:57:26   least believe in that it's just that I [TS]

00:57:27   don't believe that's happening right now [TS]

00:57:29   and just even just look at the EPA [TS]

00:57:31   people are saying it might take 30 years [TS]

00:57:33   to undo what's already happened to the [TS]

00:57:35   EPA there's stuff like that that is just [TS]

00:57:37   like at a time when everything's just [TS]

00:57:39   the environment is just crumbling and [TS]

00:57:41   the numbers are there for all of this [TS]

00:57:44   stuff and nobody's standing up I'm sorry [TS]

00:57:46   I'm just screaming into the wind that's [TS]

00:57:47   like it's so maddening to me that there [TS]

00:57:49   are not the everybo keeps talk about the [TS]

00:57:51   grown-ups in the room well you know you [TS]

00:57:52   got 100 grown-ups over here and over 400 [TS]

00:57:54   on this other side like why why aren't [TS]

00:57:56   they being the grown-ups why aren't they [TS]

00:57:57   it's because well some of them some of [TS]

00:57:59   them benefit greatly by being able to [TS]

00:58:01   not get this guy mad at them on the [TS]

00:58:03   internet and then there are other people [TS]

00:58:05   I guess they just they just don't have [TS]

00:58:07   the political will or votes to be able [TS]

00:58:11   to do anything of substance but like [TS]

00:58:13   seriously like what does it gonna take [TS]

00:58:15   you know to get anywhere to with near [TS]

00:58:18   back to where we could be to just even [TS]

00:58:20   even get back there's stuff that is as [TS]

00:58:22   bad as the 50s and 60s right now [TS]

00:58:24   happening that's like we lost like 50 [TS]

00:58:27   years somewhere the thing is that all [TS]

00:58:31   any of us have is the news and and one [TS]

00:58:36   of the things that we always said about [TS]

00:58:37   the Internet from the very beginning was [TS]

00:58:39   that I mean and this was all this was [TS]

00:58:41   often talked about as a strength in the [TS]

00:58:43   early days you would be able to tailor [TS]

00:58:45   your news feed so that it fit your [TS]

00:58:49   interests you have met your interests [TS]

00:58:51   and now we are living in a world where [TS]

00:58:53   you can tailor your news feed and [TS]

00:58:55   everybody's watching their own [TS]

00:58:56   individual news feed and the one that [TS]

00:58:58   that people like us are watching is in [TS]

00:59:03   full-on panic mode all the time and so [TS]

00:59:07   it looks like a doomsday scenario that [TS]

00:59:11   isn't an accurate picture right this [TS]

00:59:14   whole like the EPA or the the damage to [TS]

00:59:16   the environment is going to take 30 [TS]

00:59:18   years to correct well no it's it's it [TS]

00:59:22   depends on how you read what's going on [TS]

00:59:25   like there is damage being done yes but [TS]

00:59:27   there has been there have been a lot of [TS]

00:59:30   improvements the the damage even during [TS]

00:59:34   the Obama administration we were still [TS]

00:59:36   doing a ton of damage it's not like we [TS]

00:59:38   went from from Avatar to [TS]

00:59:42   to Bladerunner in two weeks and then [TS]

00:59:45   we'll never get back to avatar like it's [TS]

00:59:47   a continuum and and progress is being [TS]

00:59:50   made so on the one hand I just I always [TS]

00:59:53   caution like you get into a new cycle [TS]

00:59:56   and it news is built on creating panic [TS]

00:59:59   and [TS]

00:59:59   and [TS]

01:00:00   people mm-hmm it's very very hard to [TS]

01:00:03   take one big step back and not be in a [TS]

01:00:06   state of panic because in fact panicking [TS]

01:00:09   feels like action you know it feels like [TS]

01:00:12   you're engaged it feels like you're [TS]

01:00:14   doing something to be in a state of like [TS]

01:00:18   anxious like but like anxious stress all [TS]

01:00:24   the time yeah but like my I do believe [TS]

01:00:30   that with Trump there there is no [TS]

01:00:34   putting that genie back into the bottle [TS]

01:00:36   like something has changed like [TS]

01:00:44   irrevocably but what Trump and the [TS]

01:00:48   Congress are I think is a product of [TS]

01:00:53   basically 50 years of ground game that [TS]

01:00:58   the Conservatives have been playing that [TS]

01:01:00   the Liberals have failed at and it [TS]

01:01:04   partly it is in the nature of the two [TS]

01:01:07   animals like liberalism thinks of itself [TS]

01:01:11   as an over arching worldview that we are [TS]

01:01:16   the people that believe in the [TS]

01:01:19   philosopher-king we believe in the idea [TS]

01:01:22   that if people are educated they will [TS]

01:01:24   make good choices and that we need to [TS]

01:01:27   bring education to places if people only [TS]

01:01:30   were educated if they could only see [TS]

01:01:33   then they would naturally be liberals [TS]

01:01:36   and so that's been our focus for ever [TS]

01:01:41   since the civil rights movement we need [TS]

01:01:44   to for instance busing is an example of [TS]

01:01:48   a program where we just wanted people to [TS]

01:01:51   to interact with each other we were we [TS]

01:01:54   were attempting to combat the the kind [TS]

01:02:02   of the separatism of the races bite like [TS]

01:02:05   almost force wedging them together and [TS]

01:02:10   this was based on an idealistic [TS]

01:02:14   that we could educate people by showing [TS]

01:02:17   them and that that was going to create [TS]

01:02:20   this world and on the right they had a [TS]

01:02:25   very much more pragmatic approach to [TS]

01:02:28   American politics which was they said [TS]

01:02:32   we're going to get people elected to the [TS]

01:02:37   local school board and to the County [TS]

01:02:40   Council and once we get somebody in [TS]

01:02:43   there then we're going to Gerry manned [TS]

01:02:46   the districts so that the district okay [TS]

01:02:50   once you get into the tree house we're [TS]

01:02:52   gonna pull up the ladder that's right [TS]

01:02:53   we're gonna draw the line now so that [TS]

01:02:56   this district and no longer includes any [TS]

01:02:58   black neighborhoods and the district is [TS]

01:03:00   going to look like a like a paint [TS]

01:03:02   splotch but that doesn't matter because [TS]

01:03:04   we're not trying to create a world of [TS]

01:03:08   egalitarianism we're not trying to work [TS]

01:03:11   according to a premise that all people [TS]

01:03:15   aspire to their highest selves we're [TS]

01:03:20   trying to get political power in the [TS]

01:03:22   Congress and we're gonna do that [TS]

01:03:24   methodically we're gonna do that with a [TS]

01:03:26   kind of military like strategy and when [TS]

01:03:30   people were getting you know this is 25 [TS]

01:03:32   years ago we started talking about like [TS]

01:03:35   wait a minute all these school boards [TS]

01:03:36   are denying evolution who are these [TS]

01:03:42   ding-a-lings but from the leftist [TS]

01:03:45   perspective we were like well that's [TS]

01:03:46   just some small-town dumb little [TS]

01:03:49   Oklahoma problem and evolution is a [TS]

01:03:53   widely accepted theory any smart person [TS]

01:03:55   believes in it and so we're not gonna [TS]

01:03:58   worry about it we're not gonna go try [TS]

01:04:00   and put our own people on those school [TS]

01:04:02   boards we're going to assume that things [TS]

01:04:05   are you know that that our higher selves [TS]

01:04:08   will win and now we're living in a world [TS]

01:04:12   where the the Congress is not made up of [TS]

01:04:17   people who you know who went to college [TS]

01:04:23   started a successful business had an [TS]

01:04:26   altruistic [TS]

01:04:27   sense of American political process [TS]

01:04:31   fought in the good war you know and go [TS]

01:04:35   to go to Washington trying to make a [TS]

01:04:37   difference we're looking at a Congress [TS]

01:04:40   that is full of people that were [TS]

01:04:42   strategically sent there to accomplish a [TS]

01:04:45   pretty narrow mission which is basically [TS]

01:04:51   hamstrung the government limit its power [TS]

01:04:55   and return the right to decide whether [TS]

01:05:01   evolution is true or not to the local [TS]

01:05:04   school board which we've already stacked [TS]

01:05:09   with people and that's the that has been [TS]

01:05:12   the Republican game for 50 years and [TS]

01:05:14   they it's just it's just a strategy and [TS]

01:05:18   on the Left we considered ourselves [TS]

01:05:21   above that kind of of like college [TS]

01:05:25   football like ground game and we had [TS]

01:05:27   none our ground game was all devoted to [TS]

01:05:32   [Music] [TS]

01:05:33   to to again this this basically long [TS]

01:05:39   history premise which is the more [TS]

01:05:42   educated people are the more affluent [TS]

01:05:44   they are and educated they are the more [TS]

01:05:47   they will take an interest in civics the [TS]

01:05:49   more they will as you were saying you [TS]

01:05:53   know once you have a complex idea you [TS]

01:05:56   very seldom go back to a simple one [TS]

01:05:59   but what we didn't understand was you [TS]

01:06:01   can't just go in someplace hand them a [TS]

01:06:04   complex idea handsome kid a complex idea [TS]

01:06:07   and all of a sudden that idea Trump's [TS]

01:06:10   his parents and his grandparents and his [TS]

01:06:12   church yeah yeah yeah so anyway we've [TS]

01:06:16   done a very bad job of playing football [TS]

01:06:18   and the political situation we're in [TS]

01:06:23   right now is is a product of that and I [TS]

01:06:28   think that and the Republicans have done [TS]

01:06:30   or the I'm sorry the conservative side [TS]

01:06:32   of the country has done a very good job [TS]

01:06:36   of characterizing us as shrill out of [TS]

01:06:40   touch because because every time we've [TS]

01:06:43   advanced a really great fairy we also [TS]

01:06:47   it's very easy to pick and choose among [TS]

01:06:50   the theories promulgated by the left and [TS]

01:06:53   find one that seems bonkers to a [TS]

01:06:57   church-going person in Ohio mm-hmm and [TS]

01:06:59   then all you have to do is put that on [TS]

01:07:01   your brochure and say look what the [TS]

01:07:03   Liberals want us to do you know they [TS]

01:07:06   believe that they believe that all kids [TS]

01:07:08   should have sex change operations it's [TS]

01:07:11   like what's what where did you get that [TS]

01:07:13   you know but that but there are a lot of [TS]

01:07:16   grandmother's in Ohio that that's all [TS]

01:07:18   they need to hear yeah so how do we get [TS]

01:07:21   our ground game back I don't think that [TS]

01:07:25   it's in the nature of liberals to have a [TS]

01:07:27   ground game because we're because we [TS]

01:07:31   that's not how we think but weird we [TS]

01:07:35   have to acknowledge that we're losing in [TS]

01:07:39   a battle between like you know in a [TS]

01:07:43   battle between a team that has a ground [TS]

01:07:45   game we're not doing a good job of [TS]

01:07:47   convincing and I don't know how to [TS]

01:07:51   improve on that I don't know how to how [TS]

01:07:56   to get Neil deGrasse Tyson out to the [TS]

01:08:01   world and and I don't think that an [TS]

01:08:06   Oprah presidency is the way but like I [TS]

01:08:10   do like how many women are running for [TS]

01:08:12   office oh it's fantastic Seattle has our [TS]

01:08:15   first female mayor in a hundred years [TS]

01:08:17   basically yeah I mean I could just think [TS]

01:08:20   of half a dozen reasons why that is a [TS]

01:08:22   good and encouraging sign even in [TS]

01:08:25   conservative places I mean you can't you [TS]

01:08:29   can't argue with [TS]

01:08:32   female legislators I think they [TS]

01:08:34   particularly in Congress I think a [TS]

01:08:38   majority female Congress would be such a [TS]

01:08:41   different animal oh my god yeah [TS]

01:08:43   wouldn't matter whether they were all [TS]

01:08:44   Anita Bryant's I think you would see I [TS]

01:08:48   think you would see a justice just a [TS]

01:08:52   different mentality yeah but I don't I [TS]

01:08:57   don't know what to I don't know what the [TS]

01:09:00   antidote to the present moment and the [TS]

01:09:02   feeling that we are on the constant [TS]

01:09:04   verge of war famine catastrophe signing [TS]

01:09:09   our government for three weeks at a time [TS]

01:09:10   I mean that's it's it's insane but you [TS]

01:09:13   know again it's not unprecedented and as [TS]

01:09:15   you were saying it's not just in 68 in [TS]

01:09:20   72 in 1972 George Wallace ran for the US [TS]

01:09:24   presidency on a recent like a struggling [TS]

01:09:28   like a racism but I mean you see I've [TS]

01:09:30   been silvered through the 90s Strom [TS]

01:09:31   Thurmond right it's bananas right I mean [TS]

01:09:35   there's there's there have there have [TS]

01:09:37   been crazy crazy crazy times before and [TS]

01:09:42   I mean obviously like I was talking to [TS]

01:09:45   somebody the other day like movies in [TS]

01:09:49   the future who want to cast someone in [TS]

01:09:52   the role of the President of the United [TS]

01:09:53   States what are they gonna do now like [TS]

01:09:57   it used to be that if you wanted the [TS]

01:10:00   president even if it was like a science [TS]

01:10:03   fiction movie or a future movie he found [TS]

01:10:07   someone that seemed serious and now how [TS]

01:10:12   do you cast the president it could be it [TS]

01:10:13   could be Bobcat Goldthwait ghost like [TS]

01:10:15   you could have anybody straight so that [TS]

01:10:19   definitely is like a that's a trip but I [TS]

01:10:23   I mean every time I every time I see a [TS]

01:10:28   bunch of young lawyers sitting [TS]

01:10:31   indian-style on the floor at an [TS]

01:10:33   immigration building like frantically [TS]

01:10:37   doing pro bono work to file injunctions [TS]

01:10:42   I'm reminded that this is a fucking [TS]

01:10:44   great country [TS]

01:10:45   oh yeah look at what happened the at the [TS]

01:10:47   airports when the travel ban came down [TS]

01:10:50   yeah I mean that's as horrible as [TS]

01:10:52   everybody felt about that that was that [TS]

01:10:54   was an amazing moment that hadn't [TS]

01:10:57   happened [TS]

01:10:58   imagine if the presence of that kind of [TS]

01:11:01   pushback had not been in evidence at [TS]

01:11:03   that time where we might even be now [TS]

01:11:04   well and that if it hadn't happened [TS]

01:11:07   that's where you look at your country [TS]

01:11:10   and say this this place is full of decay [TS]

01:11:13   and rot but it did happen and you and [TS]

01:11:17   then you're able to say like I have [TS]

01:11:19   faith in this I have faith in in who we [TS]

01:11:22   are and what we're doing I need to not [TS]

01:11:27   be sad we went to see um you know an [TS]

01:11:29   okay movie who is not a fantastic movie [TS]

01:11:31   although it's a movie my daughter has [TS]

01:11:33   now declared it was definitely her [TS]

01:11:34   favorite musical and might be here [TS]

01:11:36   all-time favorite movie which is the [TS]

01:11:38   greatest showmen starring wolverine and [TS]

01:11:41   it's the very very heavily fictionalized [TS]

01:11:43   story of PT Barnum but long story short [TS]

01:11:46   one of the kind of goofy narratives in [TS]

01:11:48   this is like how good he was in some [TS]

01:11:50   ways too like kooky Barnum yeah giving [TS]

01:11:53   like humanity to his oddities and like [TS]

01:11:55   how they made this family out of the [TS]

01:11:56   bearded lady and General Tom Thumb and [TS]

01:11:58   and I swear to god this is an actual [TS]

01:12:00   thing that happened that made me feel so [TS]

01:12:02   good and I don't know I can't tell she's [TS]

01:12:04   just doing this to make me feel good but [TS]

01:12:05   there's this moment where like they're [TS]

01:12:07   they so they're outside the Barnum [TS]

01:12:09   theater and they're being confronted and [TS]

01:12:12   like menaced it's like something out of [TS]

01:12:15   x-men it's all these little you know all [TS]

01:12:17   these local hoods with Donegal caps in [TS]

01:12:19   dirt on their face I'll kick their ass [TS]

01:12:21   for being creaks and it's like a shot of [TS]

01:12:23   like bearded lady Chang and Eng bunker [TS]

01:12:25   or the Siamese twins it's you know it's [TS]

01:12:27   in the bearded lady and then it's like [TS]

01:12:29   Zac Efron and zendaya the the beautiful [TS]

01:12:33   slender actress and and she's kind of [TS]

01:12:36   like what what is what is what why is [TS]

01:12:39   that a problem and I was like well you [TS]

01:12:40   know what do you think she's like I [TS]

01:12:43   don't I don't understand because he's [TS]

01:12:44   rich I was like no no because they're of [TS]

01:12:48   different races and she she actually [TS]

01:12:50   made this face like hmm and I said up [TS]

01:12:54   until the 1960s [TS]

01:12:56   was illegal to marry somebody of a [TS]

01:12:58   different race she looked like I just [TS]

01:13:01   told her that like you know that there [TS]

01:13:04   was a secret chocolate fountain in a [TS]

01:13:05   room she didn't know about like she's [TS]

01:13:07   like you've got to be kidding me like [TS]

01:13:09   yeah I loved it for her and I really [TS]

01:13:11   admitted Lee I'm looking for my happy [TS]

01:13:13   place in this sad story but this is such [TS]

01:13:15   a real thing it's not a perfect thing [TS]

01:13:18   their kids are still dicks but like it [TS]

01:13:20   is just it's pretty fucking cool to me [TS]

01:13:21   that she's never had a thought that [TS]

01:13:23   anybody regardless of their race or [TS]

01:13:26   sexual orientation or gender is they're [TS]

01:13:30   all cool to her and that feels [TS]

01:13:33   encouraging that feels and I wonder if [TS]

01:13:37   you have similar stories like that where [TS]

01:13:38   it's no longer a case where like you [TS]

01:13:40   know when I was in first grade my black [TS]

01:13:42   friend was skipper because there's one [TS]

01:13:44   black friend at my school I had a black [TS]

01:13:45   friend I was like Stephen Colbert [TS]

01:13:47   hey there's my african-american you know [TS]

01:13:49   and that's not the case anymore [TS]

01:13:51   there's not one kid from Africa there's [TS]

01:13:53   not like that one kid there's not even [TS]

01:13:54   that one development developmentally [TS]

01:13:56   disabled kid like he's just a whole [TS]

01:13:57   bunch of different kids and like if they [TS]

01:13:59   want kissed that's gonna be okay [TS]

01:14:00   and that feels like a pretty big move [TS]

01:14:05   over Cincinnati Ohio in 1976 to me I [TS]

01:14:09   mean in my dad's elementary school there [TS]

01:14:13   was a black kid whose name was John and [TS]

01:14:15   there was a white kid whose name was [TS]

01:14:16   John Oh God and so the teacher said well [TS]

01:14:20   okay from now on you're Felix as in [TS]

01:14:24   Felix the Cat Oh God and I mean this is [TS]

01:14:29   1927 and my dad ran into him I mean they [TS]

01:14:35   were friend you know they were like [TS]

01:14:37   black John white John no no it was [TS]

01:14:39   feeling they were they were my dad and [TS]

01:14:42   he were tight throughout school and then [TS]

01:14:44   they hadn't seen each other and in 40 [TS]

01:14:46   years or something and they ran into [TS]

01:14:48   each other on the street when they were [TS]

01:14:49   both in their 70s why my dad said John [TS]

01:14:52   and he said it's Felix Davis well and he [TS]

01:14:57   had been Felix he'd been Felix his whole [TS]

01:14:59   life until he finally just accepted it [TS]

01:15:01   because that's what everybody called him [TS]

01:15:03   no he didn't finally accept it I mean [TS]

01:15:05   that from the time he was 7 years old he [TS]

01:15:07   was Felix and he just I mean it [TS]

01:15:09   never occurred to him to not be Felix [TS]

01:15:13   but I mean he was my dad knew him and [TS]

01:15:16   had known him as John but hit the the [TS]

01:15:19   Felix identity he had taken over him at [TS]

01:15:22   probably when he went to high school and [TS]

01:15:27   he was just like you know let's just not [TS]

01:15:32   I was about to say let's call a spade a [TS]

01:15:33   spade but that white issue I don't think [TS]

01:15:49   it's encouraging that your daughter [TS]

01:15:50   doesn't can't comprehend it I think it [TS]

01:15:54   is the truth of the matter yeah like my [TS]

01:15:56   daughter has never and she's almost [TS]

01:16:00   seven now she has never referred to [TS]

01:16:02   someone by their color did you imagine [TS]

01:16:05   that I mean not maybe maybe not people [TS]

01:16:08   were twenty they here they go oh gosh no [TS]

01:16:10   I mean just how you would talk about [TS]

01:16:15   people sure and partly it is because we [TS]

01:16:19   have because we're modern people also [TS]

01:16:22   yeah I have never said oh it's the black [TS]

01:16:24   guy over there or yeah yeah well you [TS]

01:16:27   know the reason that they you know the [TS]

01:16:29   reason that they're using chopsticks is [TS]

01:16:32   because they're Asian well yeah I mean [TS]

01:16:34   everybody I mean to just put up put a [TS]

01:16:35   big cherry on it we were raised to [TS]

01:16:38   believe that the easiest way to identify [TS]

01:16:39   people was how they were different from [TS]

01:16:42   the normal thing which is me my equals [TS]

01:16:44   equals normal and and and my daughter [TS]

01:16:48   does cannot classify people and her [TS]

01:16:54   primary way is boy-girl but then within [TS]

01:16:57   girls like she has two little friends [TS]

01:17:05   and one of them is almost albino she's [TS]

01:17:09   so light and one of them is from India [TS]

01:17:12   and the two of them are very close [TS]

01:17:16   friends and Marlo sees them as [TS]

01:17:20   indistinguishable from one [TS]

01:17:22   they're almost because they're both the [TS]

01:17:24   same size they're both small mm-hmm and [TS]

01:17:28   although you know to me they look like [TS]

01:17:31   the black and white chess queens of a [TS]

01:17:35   very small and interesting chess game - [TS]

01:17:39   to my kid they are classed the same [TS]

01:17:44   because they're both littler than her [TS]

01:17:48   but so she has never even come to me and [TS]

01:17:51   said what's weird about this situation [TS]

01:17:53   like she doesn't when so much credit [TS]

01:17:56   must also go to the teachers staff [TS]

01:17:58   faculty but it but it is this is the [TS]

01:18:01   thing where I don't I think like I don't [TS]

01:18:04   find it encouraging I find it fait [TS]

01:18:06   accompli like we are better and that can [TS]

01:18:10   only produce they're they're better well [TS]

01:18:14   no we are too but I mean but I still [TS]

01:18:17   have I still have the memories and [TS]

01:18:20   knowing my even my own behavior [TS]

01:18:21   Cincinnati was very I'm going to use the [TS]

01:18:24   code word conservative town is a very [TS]

01:18:27   nice word for wet wet honest and said [TS]

01:18:30   more than Larry Flynt but glam [TS]

01:18:33   headquarters oh we had all kinds of [TS]

01:18:36   things going on you cross the border [TS]

01:18:37   over Nene Indiana and it's like whoo [TS]

01:18:39   it's it ain't no Berkeley over there [TS]

01:18:42   but yeah yeah I don't know it's it's [TS]

01:18:45   it's strange though it's getting back to [TS]

01:18:47   the Descartes and the fingernails I mean [TS]

01:18:48   it is it's super interesting for like [TS]

01:18:50   I'm not saying that they can't see that [TS]

01:18:51   difference but I mean how different [TS]

01:18:53   would that be from like deciding who [TS]

01:18:55   your friends are based on like what [TS]

01:18:57   color their hair is or like the length [TS]

01:18:58   of their hair or like which backpack [TS]

01:19:00   they have it's like it would seem so [TS]

01:19:02   arbitrary well but that mean kids are [TS]

01:19:05   assholes like you see they're such [TS]

01:19:06   assholes yeah but you know my dad's [TS]

01:19:08   teacher called the black kid Felix but [TS]

01:19:11   my dad didn't did my dad had friends of [TS]

01:19:16   all races my dad's friends the best of [TS]

01:19:17   all the Japanese guys that's right you [TS]

01:19:19   play basketball the Japanese and his [TS]

01:19:20   best friend was black his whole life but [TS]

01:19:23   my dad didn't the it would never have [TS]

01:19:27   occurred to my dad to say about somebody [TS]

01:19:30   to describe somebody without describing [TS]

01:19:33   them by their primary characteristic [TS]

01:19:35   which was their skin color [TS]

01:19:36   race huh you know he would never have [TS]

01:19:38   said like oh it's the tall guy over [TS]

01:19:40   there it's like you mean which one well [TS]

01:19:44   the one over there in the red shirt you [TS]

01:19:45   know he would have been like it's a [TS]

01:19:46   black guy well so that then then to you [TS]

01:19:51   and I who grew up in her - you and me - [TS]

01:19:55   you and me mm-hmm the object the object [TS]

01:19:58   of the preposition to me who grew up in [TS]

01:20:01   in that world like now when we're [TS]

01:20:05   teaching our kids we don't talk like [TS]

01:20:07   that [TS]

01:20:07   and they don't that's just not how they [TS]

01:20:11   order the universe so when they talk to [TS]

01:20:13   their kids they're gonna figure out a [TS]

01:20:14   new ordering that somehow register got [TS]

01:20:19   by the color of his backpack yeah the [TS]

01:20:21   incredible mistakes that you and I make [TS]

01:20:23   every day when saying whatever terrible [TS]

01:20:28   thing you know that that they're gonna [TS]

01:20:30   roll their eyes at us at my terrible [TS]

01:20:32   debt what I'm gonna say don't put the [TS]

01:20:34   cart before the horse they're gonna say [TS]

01:20:35   I'm never gonna say that to my child [TS]

01:20:37   it's so racist I really want to create a [TS]

01:20:39   new world for them [TS]

01:20:42   [Music] [TS]

01:20:44   Felix [TS]