Roderick on the Line

Ep. 283: "I Never Follow the Voice"


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:04   hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going

00:00:10   hmm

00:00:15   SuperDuper

00:00:17   um late because I got I got to head

00:00:22   strong I thought I could run an errand

00:00:23   oh yeah late 9 1 1 where's the late

00:00:27   crown yeah I'm all right 9 1 1 joke in

00:00:30   your town yeah

00:00:31   what was your errand oh it's not very

00:00:33   interesting go to the bread store for

00:00:35   some bread no no no no I went to the the

00:00:38   ATM oh hey Jim sometimes you couldn't

00:00:43   need some cash around the house tonight

00:00:44   I don't like not having cash yeah these

00:00:47   millenniums they love everything on a

00:00:49   card I know they do it all on their

00:00:51   thermostat uh it needs to stop John I

00:00:54   need to stop the card thing needs to we

00:00:58   just need you to pump the brakes

00:01:00   hmm but anyway sorry obvious I don't

00:01:02   usually talk about the show on the show

00:01:03   but I ran a little late and so now I

00:01:05   need to walk over here dry company oh

00:01:30   you're drinking the brand name seltzer

00:01:36   taste for Canada dry and it's become a

00:01:39   monkey on my back yeah cuz all those

00:01:42   years ago also you would got this just

00:01:48   like the Kroger okay so we should

00:01:54   probably just do a whole episode about

00:01:55   water at some point cuz I it's been a

00:01:57   journey for me I have some issues yeah

00:01:59   well what okay so when I first got into

00:02:02   sparkling water slash seltzer water

00:02:04   slash soda water it's a regional thing I

00:02:07   guess

00:02:08   I used to get it in like Safeway 12

00:02:13   packs and ran out of business still a

00:02:16   point when I would drive a car around

00:02:17   like an animal and then I I discovered

00:02:19   that you could get Safeway encases yep

00:02:24   yep and then I discovered that the

00:02:27   Safeway delivery people would

00:02:29   theoretically deliver things to your

00:02:32   house for a nominal fee

00:02:35   it's like a back alley dealers oh this

00:02:37   is this is the seltzer hack for show so

00:02:40   I got the wrong keyboard and all my

00:02:43   document open holy shit so what I did

00:02:46   was I discovered I'd like you to put a

00:02:49   fork they're in the wrong keyboard I

00:02:51   have to revisit that put it in the

00:02:53   document wrong the wrong keyboard for

00:02:56   old times sake I should use the old keep

00:03:00   I'm a regular keyboard okay no no I

00:03:02   don't make noise people email us um so

00:03:06   what I discovered was a seltzer hack

00:03:07   which was you could contact the Safeway

00:03:11   company of Pleasanton California and you

00:03:12   could say hey icebox chocolate cake and

00:03:24   18 cases of Sultan do you have to talk

00:03:27   to them like Randy Newman character the

00:03:32   guy who goes into the corner store he's

00:03:34   like oh I'm so thirsty today I wonder

00:03:36   what I should have this morning in my

00:03:48   case I'm like yeah you know why don't

00:03:49   you give me some of those give me some

00:03:51   of those all right a french fries okay

00:03:56   flank steak is good I got 18 cases of

00:04:00   seltzer and they will deliver it to your

00:04:02   oh they hate it they hate it cuz this is

00:04:07   back in the day so this is you know lots

00:04:09   this lots happened in the years since

00:04:10   since this this went down but this is

00:04:13   when Safeway was trying to do their own

00:04:14   offering they still do this but they're

00:04:16   getting their bike kicked by all the

00:04:17   other companies

00:04:19   but a man and a Safeway truck would come

00:04:21   to your house and man he was fuckin

00:04:23   hating life cuz Lee idea well you know

00:04:26   normally you're like oh you know could I

00:04:28   get a loaf of bread and a stick of

00:04:30   butter and they come out and they give

00:04:32   you a nice little bag to milk stick of

00:04:35   butter tick chip the cap is just staples

00:04:40   then what they were not expecting was

00:04:42   the life hack guy asking for 18 cases of

00:04:46   seltzer and then ask you please stack

00:04:47   them up in this area of my garage please

00:04:49   and thank you it's not pallet I mean how

00:04:51   many is 18 cases I don't know if I've

00:04:53   seen that in a long time it's more than

00:04:58   the guy with the little back brace

00:04:59   really feels like bring it into your

00:05:01   house yeah and so then now I still

00:05:03   continue this to this day because I

00:05:05   fight this I fight the system the system

00:05:08   does not want me to get heavy objects

00:05:09   you know they want me to get the dainty

00:05:11   bag sure now and pay the fee we're happy

00:05:14   to home deliver toilet paper to you well

00:05:17   they'll bring you a few but you know

00:05:19   let's not abuse the system right it's

00:05:21   like I'm like the guy with that

00:05:22   all-you-can-eat salad bar wearing waders

00:05:24   and like just stuffing mashed potatoes

00:05:26   into my pants and so but since sometimes

00:05:29   you got to be strategic about it and you

00:05:31   got it you do an orbit and you say I

00:05:33   want 18 18 cases of seltzer and they

00:05:36   show up they go sorry brah they didn't

00:05:39   have any seltzer and you're like really

00:05:40   you didn't have any seltzer and so I

00:05:43   have to start doing competitive ordering

00:05:45   where I might do two to three orders in

00:05:46   a day hitting the minimum until I got

00:05:49   you follow me here so let's say let's

00:05:51   say the minimum is $30.00 you pay attend

00:05:53   or fee or whatever I didn't have the

00:05:55   first time I do it a second time

00:05:56   I keep scheduling I keep scheduling I

00:05:58   still do that to this day I am prepared

00:06:00   at this point to open a back channel

00:06:03   with the Canada Dry company to say look

00:06:05   I treat me like a restaurant like I am

00:06:07   probably the single largest consumer of

00:06:09   this let's bypass the middleman a little

00:06:12   premium but like you know across your

00:06:14   palm but I want some fucking Canada Dry

00:06:16   original sparkling seltzer water 12

00:06:18   fluid ounces I want that in large large

00:06:20   amounts at my house there's got to be a

00:06:23   distribution center somewhere in the Bay

00:06:25   Area yeah where the you know where the

00:06:27   big truck pulls up and it's like when

00:06:29   Axel Foley is is hijacking or intercept

00:06:33   the hijacked truck full of cigarettes at

00:06:35   the beginning yes diehard or whatever

00:06:40   yeah the one it's him the other guy it's

00:06:42   the one he buys the carton of cigarettes

00:06:44   yeah Axel Foley there's gotta be some

00:06:49   deal you can make some like you know

00:06:51   stack of money gets exchanged and a guy

00:06:53   opens up the back of a semi-trailer and

00:06:56   right full of Canada drive well okay so

00:06:59   so this is an interesting twist on the

00:07:02   decongestant problem okay cuz you think

00:07:04   about the glory days and you know about

00:07:06   my glory days I know I got a spreadsheet

00:07:08   about ephedra I still hope yeah I rode

00:07:10   that wave with you for a little brother

00:07:11   so you could go time was you could go

00:07:14   get yourself a dollar nine malt liquor

00:07:16   and you get yourself a bottle and I

00:07:18   think it was a hundred twenty-five

00:07:20   milligram ephedrine the ephedra I think

00:07:21   it was $2.99 for a hundred mmm overtime

00:07:24   that went up eventually they made it

00:07:26   illegal and today if you want to be able

00:07:28   to breathe and I'm the JIT wanna breathe

00:07:30   I want that claret indeed

00:07:31   I gotta go with me both right so I have

00:07:34   to go to the pharmacist window where for

00:07:36   some reason they're a little higher up

00:07:37   than me not a fan okay they're looking

00:07:40   down on me when I see your driver's

00:07:42   license for your 30 tablets of clarity I

00:07:45   was like what's the jam up on this is

00:07:48   this so people won't make you know

00:07:49   Walter White meth and they're like yeah

00:07:51   we can't you can't buy if you buy this

00:07:53   more than twice in a month federal

00:07:55   agents will come to your house right Wow

00:07:58   now here's the thing I kind of get that

00:08:00   it's sort of I was telling me we have

00:08:02   traveled recently and I was telling my

00:08:04   daughter about TSA and you know one time

00:08:06   somebody had a kind of like a bomb in

00:08:08   their shoes so now we take our shoes off

00:08:10   and one time somebody had some liquid

00:08:13   and that's why we can't have liquids

00:08:14   right for liquid yeah yeah yeah but I

00:08:18   mean like how much meth can you really

00:08:20   make with 60 claritin DS not very much

00:08:24   at all I mean so many of the decisions

00:08:28   we make now as people are based on that

00:08:32   the absolute worst okay thing that a

00:08:35   single like lowest common denominator

00:08:38   person will do right in to none in the

00:08:40   nature can do can write this down dumb

00:08:42   pretty good numbness thermometer

00:08:44   denominator

00:08:45   but in that case in that case here's the

00:08:47   thing now I'm in convenience I'm not

00:08:49   trying to make meth sure I'd love to

00:08:50   abuse stimulants I'd be super into it

00:08:52   but I can't so I've made my peace now I

00:08:54   get my claritin once a month because I

00:08:56   don't want federal agents of my house I

00:08:57   don't want to you know have a problem

00:08:59   but here's the thing ninety nine point

00:09:02   how many nines of people out there just

00:09:03   won't fucking claret and so they can

00:09:05   breathe

00:09:06   yeah in the same way most people you

00:09:09   think about buying Canada dry original

00:09:10   sparkling seltzer water you're buying

00:09:12   that for a party would you buy you're

00:09:14   gonna buy one to another bottle of that

00:09:17   it's it's like it's like Vernors

00:09:18   ginger-ale

00:09:19   or what caffeine free diet coke it's

00:09:22   something for the weirdos that want to

00:09:24   mix a drink yeah but you know what it is

00:09:26   I bet you it's some of these flat

00:09:29   earthers are using bulk canada dry to

00:09:34   power their low orbit spacecraft huh we

00:09:38   laughed we laughed at that guy but he

00:09:40   got it off the ground

00:09:41   sure he did and do you know it was steam

00:09:43   powered right yeah so I think so I think

00:09:45   yeah the steam had a steam power steam

00:09:46   punk rocket yeah so how far is it before

00:09:50   we realize that oh no it's just it's

00:09:52   like frizzy water-powered that's the

00:09:54   real way that's what Elon Musk has been

00:09:56   working on this whole time that's why

00:09:58   they don't want to give you a pallet of

00:10:00   flavorless pop oh you think it's big

00:10:02   space I think it's big space they're

00:10:05   putting the kibosh on your on your

00:10:07   garage so what's he building in their

00:10:11   situation hmm get to the fireworks

00:10:13   factory yeah and so now here's the

00:10:15   situation now is I do have a gig economy

00:10:18   service that I use to have these things

00:10:19   delivered to my house but here's the

00:10:21   thing now Canada Dry has made the move

00:10:24   of now putting them they don't they

00:10:25   don't have cases a Canada Dry can't buy

00:10:27   kids can it dry time was a man a grown

00:10:30   man grown-ass man in his early 50s could

00:10:32   buy a gentleman's 12-pack of Canada Oh

00:10:35   guess what they're doing now now they're

00:10:37   getting cute and now they're they have

00:10:40   eight packs

00:10:41   John John they sell you in a cardboard

00:10:44   eight pack and the little dispenser

00:10:46   doesn't even you heard me struggling did

00:10:48   you hear me struggling over there what

00:10:49   they're trying to get was that from an

00:10:51   eight pack that's from an eight pack I'm

00:10:52   stuck with eight packs now like an

00:10:53   animal I've never heard of an eight pack

00:10:55   eight pack mm-hmm

00:10:57   mm-hmm and I don't get from Safeway

00:10:59   anymore because my gig economy service

00:11:01   they have the the charge a premium for

00:11:03   going to Safeway fuck Safeway in the eye

00:11:04   to begin with I'm a Molly stones man all

00:11:06   right I don't wanna make it creepy I

00:11:08   don't even know what that is what's that

00:11:10   pussy when I go to in Seattle the what's

00:11:13   your kind of nice grocery store Oh we'll

00:11:16   see how is just built on kind of nice

00:11:18   grocery stores now but are you talking

00:11:19   about the QFC probably the place that

00:11:22   has flowers and we bought some steaks

00:11:23   there

00:11:24   yeah QFC probably they're owned by

00:11:28   somebody now I don't know if you sure

00:11:30   they're not independent anymore but then

00:11:32   we have the you know we've got the coop

00:11:35   and we've got the other co-op market you

00:11:40   know the like how many fancy olives do

00:11:42   you want store only get olive barge on

00:11:45   you can we've got more olives than the

00:11:47   other place stuff it with blue cheese so

00:11:51   now I'm in a situation where I got a

00:11:53   monkey on my back and I got them down

00:11:54   right on my butt so now I've got room or

00:11:57   a Rebecca De Mornay is the actress right

00:11:59   right okay it's a Monet yeah Mon I got a

00:12:03   Monet up close it looks like a bargain

00:12:05   but the so now we're stuck with this

00:12:09   with the lobster cuz also I like though

00:12:12   here's the problem I'm a connoisseur

00:12:14   John I like the flavor I like the

00:12:16   mouthfeel of Canada Dry it's better than

00:12:18   the generics yeah it has a slightly

00:12:21   sweet aspect to it maybe because of

00:12:23   where they source their water it's sweet

00:12:26   water it's sweet well it's not sweet

00:12:28   it's not like that fucking vitamin water

00:12:30   bullshit like just have a coke

00:12:31   like you know in this case but you're

00:12:34   thinking like the booth has it has a

00:12:37   cool sweet round quality to it utterly

00:12:41   lacking in the other generics or let's

00:12:43   be honest the other premium products how

00:12:45   well speaking of which I have a good

00:12:47   friend who is addicted well let me roll

00:12:52   that back Wow I have I live in a culture

00:12:57   now of people who are addicted to the

00:12:59   Lacroix brand of a mildly flavored I

00:13:04   don't understand how that has become

00:13:05   such a lifestyle

00:13:06   I understand how that is that people

00:13:08   have taken up the mantle of Lacroix and

00:13:10   something it's like vaping it's like

00:13:12   just don't understand like how that

00:13:13   became such a thing I have a gal pal who

00:13:15   is a motorcycle adventure person and her

00:13:20   online handle is hookers and popcorn

00:13:24   that's her tag that's her her brand her

00:13:27   what would you call it not her avatar

00:13:30   I guess handle let's call it hands on

00:13:32   handle and under the handle hookers and

00:13:35   popcorn she does all kinds of motorcycle

00:13:38   he stunts and lifestyle events she goes

00:13:41   into adventures and does adventury

00:13:44   things she jumps around mm-hmm

00:13:47   sometimes we'll ride a motorcycle

00:13:49   standing on it seem very safe it's not

00:13:53   she does unsafe things that's a that's

00:13:56   another that's unsafe photos on on the

00:13:58   Instagram she does unsafe things puts

00:14:01   photos up of them and then it's she's

00:14:04   you know she's not saying that she's a

00:14:06   role model you know if you go jump on

00:14:08   your motorcycle in sparkly underwear and

00:14:11   riding standing up over a cliff like

00:14:14   that's your problem the fact that she

00:14:16   has a trained eagle that grabbed her

00:14:17   right at the last minute and flew her

00:14:19   off to a Mesa where she had a ayahuasca

00:14:22   ceremony does not mean that that's gonna

00:14:24   happen to you

00:14:26   and she's a member of a culture of

00:14:28   people who are lifestyle purveyors she

00:14:34   said she has a lifestyle brand I think

00:14:37   so

00:14:38   I mean she resists it or maybe resisted

00:14:40   it put it that way no no no but but you

00:14:44   know you she often is in a group of

00:14:46   people and they're all like whoa check

00:14:47   me and they're all doing like amazing

00:14:49   things they're all like stunt

00:14:50   motorcyclists and skateboarders you know

00:14:53   the group they're basically all

00:14:54   skateboarders let's be honest but

00:14:56   skateboarders of cars but and it's

00:15:01   amazing believe me they truly do amazing

00:15:04   things it's just that like there's

00:15:05   always a drone flying around somebody's

00:15:08   jumping their motorcycle this is a

00:15:10   there's like that one guy looks like a

00:15:12   frog on YouTube and he's real popular

00:15:14   and he he takes his Canon camera out and

00:15:16   he jumps canyons and stuff and yeah

00:15:17   enjoy life and you are a la

00:15:19   you're alive exactly yeah they all have

00:15:21   like like a million followers and I

00:15:24   don't know what happens people give them

00:15:25   stuff okay and you know me I've been

00:15:28   living on Reds vitamin C and cocaine for

00:15:31   many years and and I never you know I

00:15:35   don't turn my nose up at a swag bag you

00:15:37   know I think coffee

00:15:39   that's how can my coffee but like

00:15:40   nobody's giving me a motorcycle mm-hmm

00:15:43   and I'm not saying anybody's given them

00:15:44   motorcycles either yeah but uh oh and

00:15:47   also the we got to talk about the Gibson

00:15:49   Company later oh shit dog I saw that and

00:15:51   thought wrong keyboard worst thing with

00:15:54   a common denominator

00:15:55   yeah and Gibson was yo they got was

00:15:57   buddy you saw this cut you saw that

00:16:00   coming miles off I did have been talking

00:16:02   about the factory thing you were

00:16:03   disappointed yes yes it's on the list I

00:16:06   got it but she drinks 80 Lacroix a day

00:16:12   mmm

00:16:13   I think so she'll often send a

00:16:17   photograph of the floor bed of her you

00:16:22   know the foot wells of her truck as she

00:16:26   drives across America from one adventure

00:16:29   to the next in a never-ending

00:16:31   constellation of string of pearls of

00:16:34   outrageous adventures and the footwell

00:16:38   of her truck will be like like ankle

00:16:42   deep in

00:16:43   Lucroy cans and I don't think you're

00:16:46   throwing those Lacroix cans down there

00:16:47   half full that would be a mess I think

00:16:50   she's finishing them off she's not doing

00:16:53   what we used to do and I don't see

00:16:54   people do this very often anymore where

00:16:56   you finish a can of something and you

00:16:58   crush it yeah as part of finishing it

00:17:00   did you ever do that I do it now because

00:17:03   I'm a super recycler and I need every

00:17:04   square inch every cubic inch and you

00:17:06   have that problem I remember the last

00:17:08   time I spent any you know stayed

00:17:10   multiple nights at your home there was

00:17:13   the constant problem of where is the can

00:17:16   of sparkling water I was most recently

00:17:19   drinking oh yeah yeah there's like

00:17:22   there's cans on top of everything and

00:17:24   it's like oh shit and they're all

00:17:25   half-full when I did my afternoon

00:17:27   cleanup yesterday I tried to clean up in

00:17:29   the afternoon get ready for the dinner

00:17:30   hour get everything prepped

00:17:31   and I go in and I clean up any cans that

00:17:34   around I had I had three 3/4 full cans

00:17:37   that's that's how you know you got a

00:17:38   problem cuz the fizz is done at that

00:17:40   point but I feel like she has been

00:17:43   trying to get Lacroix to start backing

00:17:47   up the Lacroix truck

00:17:50   but I think they don't I don't think

00:17:52   they do it because I feel like there's

00:17:53   probably within the Lacroix cult uh-huh

00:17:56   I don't know if they need it know

00:17:59   everybody's drinking that stuff they

00:18:00   don't need any advertising they don't

00:18:01   need anybody jumping motorcycles

00:18:02   drinking a la croix she's making some of

00:18:07   these photos John or part naked yeah

00:18:09   yeah I mean not everybody in the

00:18:12   lifestyle brand circuit she finds

00:18:14   herself naked in a lot of unusual

00:18:16   situations

00:18:17   she's busy having adventures a lot of

00:18:20   public John be aware of this I just got

00:18:23   a pan sparked off in this one she's not

00:18:24   a she's not a role model she's a she

00:18:27   never said that no she's doing her own

00:18:30   thing in her own in her own time

00:18:32   she's making stuff up as she goes but

00:18:34   she's you know she truly does do some

00:18:37   she lays on the ground a lot hairball

00:18:40   stuff that's one of her that's one of

00:18:41   her things she does the like I'm

00:18:43   facedown dead on the ground some

00:18:46   somewhere okay it's it's a kids over

00:18:50   time you know everybody's got a little

00:18:51   bit and when you follow people's bits

00:18:53   yeah over time you're like yeah she was

00:18:59   like she laid down in front of a

00:19:02   farmhouse here and did a dead dead girl

00:19:06   thing she seems pretty good at this

00:19:08   yeah she's good she has she's good she's

00:19:11   good she's good people but but but you

00:19:14   know though it's the Lacroix really that

00:19:17   is the manure think she'd be like reppin

00:19:23   all these heavy brands like sports gear

00:19:27   and you know all that the people that

00:19:30   are doing like adventure sports stuff it

00:19:32   seems like they're always going holding

00:19:34   up their K twos and being like I did it

00:19:36   you know mountain dew or whatever you

00:19:38   know they're like you know or you'd find

00:19:40   some kind of bespoke upstart brand that

00:19:43   needs a motorcycle lady you know that

00:19:46   could really benefit from being part of

00:19:48   that that branding

00:19:50   I'm just saying Lacroix is pretty

00:19:52   well-established yeah but but she's not

00:19:55   doing it to get I don't think she's

00:19:57   she's just like addicted to Lacroix the

00:19:59   point of this story signs I don't well

00:20:01   no it's that what's directly to your

00:20:03   point I don't understand to any of you

00:20:07   how you get addicted to fizzy water

00:20:09   it's got no caffeine in it it's got no

00:20:12   sugar in it it's got no what is it doing

00:20:15   to you like I'll have it I'll have a

00:20:17   soda water when I'm with you uh-huh but

00:20:19   like I don't think your haven't you're

00:20:22   having a can of Safeway Seltzer in the

00:20:24   interview in my yard that one time they

00:20:26   get a coffee you got a coffee maybe at a

00:20:28   coffee out of salts or something like

00:20:29   that I have a theory I think I think

00:20:34   part of it is and I got into this with

00:20:35   the when I was doing the SodaStream

00:20:37   family of products is if you're somebody

00:20:39   who enjoys sparkling water you I think

00:20:41   increasingly you're chasing the dragon

00:20:44   you like that burn you you like that

00:20:46   super strong fizz it doesn't hurt but I

00:20:48   mean think about you and hydrogen

00:20:49   peroxide another monkey you got on my

00:20:51   back don't you like that feeling you

00:20:53   swish it around it burns a little bit

00:20:54   you got canker sore you I really got in

00:20:56   there yeah yeah I like that burn I like

00:20:59   any kind of burn any anything you put on

00:21:01   something and it hurts see yeah see

00:21:04   that's it's the healing it do you want

00:21:07   that with grapefruit you know what my

00:21:08   lady likes the Pomplamoose that's her

00:21:10   favorite of the lowboys did you did you

00:21:12   know that the medication that I'm taking

00:21:15   it is contraindicated to eat grapefruit

00:21:19   oh the devil you say yeah something I

00:21:23   don't know what and this is the miracles

00:21:25   of the world this is chemistry somehow

00:21:30   if you eat grapefruit

00:21:32   it makes the medicine not work is it is

00:21:35   it contraindicated by other hand fruit

00:21:37   and citrus some special something

00:21:41   special about fruit yeah and the thing

00:21:43   is I didn't even know that medical

00:21:46   people and pharmacologists were even

00:21:48   paying that close of it

00:21:49   attention to stuff like how would they

00:21:51   have even figured that out I feel like

00:21:53   it's the thing where somebody was like

00:21:55   grapefruit fiend and they said my

00:21:58   medicine doesn't work and they they put

00:22:01   it together but like are they just

00:22:02   testing it how did they even test that

00:22:04   I'm on the WebMD page for interactions

00:22:08   for the fruit grapefruit and there's a

00:22:11   lot of interactions between grapefruit

00:22:13   and other things

00:22:14   Oh sister you're not gonna you wouldn't

00:22:16   believe how many there are

00:22:17   Buse buspar coreg propyl Sid and now for

00:22:22   now I think that's one of the stay awake

00:22:23   drugs

00:22:25   dextromethorphan oh that's we have a

00:22:28   tussin you can't have dextromethorphan

00:22:29   the body breaks down

00:22:31   dextromethorphan to get rid of a

00:22:33   grapefruit might decrease how quickly

00:22:34   the body breaks down dextromethorphan

00:22:37   you're drinking juice might increase the

00:22:40   effects and side effects of it yeah

00:22:42   oh so it's it's an antagonist an agonist

00:22:45   yeah it's and as a multiplier fer for

00:22:49   cough syrup some things it forced

00:22:52   multiplies some things that antagonizes

00:22:54   interesting but you know don't mess

00:22:57   around with Leroy Brown yeah as you know

00:23:04   a Pomplamoose lover myself because I

00:23:08   like anything that burns I like anything

00:23:09   that hurts

00:23:10   uh-huh and major oh there's major in

00:23:13   Russia's I'm not sending this link this

00:23:15   is crazy John you know but I but I don't

00:23:19   I've never gotten on the the personal

00:23:22   fizzy water train and I did get I did

00:23:26   get one of those soda streams and I did

00:23:30   make my own fizzy water for a long time

00:23:33   before I just like everybody that buys a

00:23:37   thing like that just sort of got bored

00:23:38   of it but I but it's not a thing like I

00:23:45   don't do that thing that you or jenni

00:23:50   like it does with the would like I need

00:23:55   this in profusion how many do you drink

00:23:58   an entire 12 pack a day

00:24:03   uh-huh and that's a real screwed up now

00:24:05   with the eight packs I don't even have a

00:24:06   way of like easily knowing how many I've

00:24:08   had now you can't get a 12 pack there

00:24:11   they don't sell anymore they've redone

00:24:13   it they've repackaged it oh yeah no but

00:24:16   here's this is the indication that

00:24:17   you're a user is that I'm never out

00:24:19   uh-huh

00:24:21   I'm and I'm always I'm always stocked up

00:24:23   I'm saying

00:24:25   so I mean IIIi think it's it's one of

00:24:29   those things like chain-smoking where

00:24:31   you're never not doing the thing unless

00:24:33   there's a reason or you know admonition

00:24:35   from doing the thing like I've always

00:24:37   got one of these I got it's like it's

00:24:42   like the chains of the ghost of

00:24:43   Christmas past this episode of Roderick

00:24:51   on the line is brought to you by

00:24:52   Squarespace

00:24:53   you can learn more about Squarespace

00:24:54   right now by visiting Squarespace com

00:24:56   it's right there on the Internet oh you

00:24:59   guys know it I am such a fan of

00:25:00   Squarespace it is what we use to host

00:25:02   Roderick on the line more about that in

00:25:03   a second but what do you want

00:25:05   Squarespace for well you can use it for

00:25:06   pretty much anything what you do you go

00:25:08   to Squarespace and you create a

00:25:10   beautiful website you can turn your cool

00:25:12   idea into a new website you can showcase

00:25:14   your work you can have a blog or publish

00:25:16   other kinds of text content you could

00:25:18   have a portfolio of images or your

00:25:20   previous working and sub products and

00:25:22   services promote your physical or online

00:25:24   business please restaurants of America

00:25:26   get onto Squarespace you can even

00:25:29   announce an upcoming event or a special

00:25:30   project all this and so much more

00:25:32   Squarespace com Squarespace does all

00:25:35   this by giving you beautiful templates

00:25:36   that are created by world-class

00:25:37   designers they have powerful ecommerce

00:25:40   functionality built right in let's sell

00:25:42   anything you want online you have the

00:25:43   ability to customize the look and feel

00:25:45   of your site your settings your products

00:25:46   all of your stuff with just a few clicks

00:25:49   everything is optimized for mobile right

00:25:51   out of the box so it looks good on any

00:25:53   device or dingus Squarespace also has a

00:25:55   new way to buy domains and you can

00:25:57   choose from over 200 domain extensions

00:25:59   they have analytics that help you grow

00:26:01   in real time built in search engine

00:26:03   optimization free and secure hosting

00:26:05   they have it all and on top of it all

00:26:07   nothing to patch or upgrade it's a

00:26:09   worry-free experience

00:26:10   if 24 by 7 award-winning customer

00:26:13   support if you ever do have questions

00:26:14   they're great at that so get out

00:26:15   we're encouraging folks to make it you

00:26:17   make it yourself easily create a website

00:26:19   all by yourself as I've said before I'm

00:26:22   a huge fan of Squarespace I've been with

00:26:24   them for I don't even know how many

00:26:25   years now if you're listening to the

00:26:27   Roderick on the line podcast which I

00:26:28   assume you are right now you're already

00:26:30   using Squarespace you're using it as a

00:26:31   consumer of Squarespace but you could

00:26:33   also use it as a creator of Squarespace

00:26:35   you put up whatever you want you get it

00:26:36   up there you dingus put something on

00:26:37   Squarespace you go to Squarespace

00:26:39   squarespace.com and when you go there

00:26:41   you know what you can use well first of

00:26:43   all you get a Squarespace and create a

00:26:44   free trial that's number one when you're

00:26:47   ready to buy you use the offer code

00:26:49   supertrain and that will save you 10%

00:26:51   off your first purchase of a website or

00:26:54   domain squarespace.com offer code

00:26:57   supertrain our thanks to Squarespace for

00:27:00   supporting Roderick on the line and all

00:27:02   the great shows Dixie and Rubicon myself

00:27:26   with this ever sticks I got you know for

00:27:34   long time I would get the cans and then

00:27:35   on haul I should do the Soda Stream and

00:27:37   of course then you know III think I

00:27:40   became in our circle somewhat well known

00:27:41   ya for doing the SodaStream that's part

00:27:43   of your brain know that it matters but

00:27:45   like no I would make it I was really

00:27:47   into it and I got really into it I got

00:27:49   extra bottles and then pretty soon I was

00:27:51   getting into a situation where I was

00:27:53   remodeled because he wanted a stockpile

00:27:55   he got a stockpile I'm not gonna be out

00:27:56   of it but then of course we got a kid

00:27:58   and you can't do that at night it wakes

00:28:00   up the whole household and then III I

00:28:03   passed the Rubicon II and sticks which

00:28:05   is that at this point is like okay this

00:28:06   isn't really practical there's too many

00:28:08   like bottles that have to be washed and

00:28:10   there's the Rubicon Amitha Cobo them

00:28:13   yeah go both ways

00:28:14   mm-hmm a pill yeah anyway so that's how

00:28:18   I got back into the cans and then

00:28:19   eventually in the fullness of time I

00:28:20   discovered the Canada Drive brand and I

00:28:22   started now you know there's a problem

00:28:24   so now I'm not they're trying to buy

00:28:25   like the Mickey Mouse LSD like I had to

00:28:27   have a special kind of fizzy

00:28:29   it's just you know I don't have places

00:28:31   to talk about this so this is an

00:28:33   opportunity to the ATM in order to pay

00:28:43   your dealer anyway what's the worst

00:28:51   thing I type this really don't talk

00:28:53   about Gibson was the wrong keyboard or

00:28:55   the worst thing to do with a common

00:28:57   denominator well let me ask you first of

00:28:59   all I this is the only I'm always amazed

00:29:02   as you know yeah by computer people and

00:29:05   by their their ups and downs their ins

00:29:09   and outs their foibles their you know

00:29:11   their common little like keychains that

00:29:16   they hand to one another it must seem

00:29:18   very odd to you and you have for a long

00:29:22   time you were my number one computer guy

00:29:24   the one that was that would explain all

00:29:26   the computers to me and when I would say

00:29:29   what the what the world you would say oh

00:29:33   well that's just this or this is just

00:29:37   that oh thank you I like to think of it

00:29:41   John is I think I I feel this is true

00:29:43   for myself with technology for a long

00:29:44   time and I know it's true with other

00:29:46   people who instruct me which is like I

00:29:48   just I don't need to know everything

00:29:49   about this at a high level let me know

00:29:52   if this is something I need to know

00:29:53   about and if it is or something I just

00:29:55   need to not worry about or think about

00:29:56   right and if it is something I might

00:29:59   want to be interested in can you just

00:30:01   give me some bullets to just sort of a

00:30:02   quaint need to kind of be my personal

00:30:04   Wikipedia for letting me know like if

00:30:06   I'm in the ballpark for getting near

00:30:08   understanding of this thing so I can say

00:30:10   to you like oh you don't need to worry

00:30:11   about that yeah you don't need to sign

00:30:12   up for that service that's silly don't

00:30:13   do that you did that a lot for me you

00:30:16   would say that's not a thing that you

00:30:17   care about and I would say butBut and

00:30:19   you'd say no yeah don't worry don't

00:30:21   worry don't worry if that ever becomes a

00:30:24   thing that you need to know about you'll

00:30:25   know about it and I was like great

00:30:27   awesome but there are still things that

00:30:31   amaze me all the time I had a question

00:30:35   about for instance last night it seemed

00:30:38   like when I got home I

00:30:40   on the internet to look at things as you

00:30:44   do and it seemed like everyone that I

00:30:48   knew and everyone in the world well

00:30:51   everyone was watching Jesus Christ

00:30:54   Superstar on the television yes and my

00:30:58   question was not like why because

00:31:05   obviously Jesus Christ Superstar is

00:31:07   amazing and and and this was a live

00:31:11   production of it live streaming on TV

00:31:13   yeah they did they did a live production

00:31:16   of it

00:31:17   for the East Coast and the west coast so

00:31:19   they did it twice but oh oh really in

00:31:21   both times it was a different

00:31:23   performance I think so typically when

00:31:25   NBC does these live things that they

00:31:27   tend to do it twice and judging by the

00:31:30   way Judah's kind of screwed up the

00:31:32   lyrics for know he did fine but it was a

00:31:36   loud room I think he lost the cadence a

00:31:38   little bit but that guy was good where

00:31:40   was the performance taking place I want

00:31:43   to say the Los Angeles area so here's my

00:31:47   question I do not remember in the last

00:31:52   five days everybody saying we're all

00:31:57   gonna watch Jesus Christ Superstar on TV

00:31:59   right everybody came out of nowhere it

00:32:02   came out of nowhere and everyone seemed

00:32:06   to be watching it I hadn't heard about

00:32:08   it and also I think if I had heard about

00:32:11   it like the premise wouldn't have

00:32:15   necessarily been super enticing like Oh

00:32:18   NBC is gonna do a live Jesus Christ

00:32:21   Superstar I would have been like you

00:32:23   know what you wouldn't like clear your

00:32:24   schedule for that if you know about two

00:32:25   weeks ahead yeah like there's a lot of

00:32:27   stuff going on that you can watch on TV

00:32:30   and and yet it seemed like everybody

00:32:35   just agreed offline or in a secret news

00:32:38   group oh we're all gonna watch this

00:32:41   thing and we're all gonna like live

00:32:43   comment on it and I understand when it's

00:32:45   the Oscars or something yeah that

00:32:47   everybody's on everybody's watching the

00:32:49   Oscars it's just understood that you're

00:32:50   gonna do it

00:32:52   that was an example of a cultural moment

00:32:54   where where I was like okay do I follow

00:32:59   400 people who just all are really into

00:33:01   musical theater is that that's not

00:33:04   unlikely and it's not impossible

00:33:06   like what was like where did this come

00:33:07   from and when it came where it came from

00:33:09   is it more about an interesting a live

00:33:11   event is it about the the theatre part

00:33:14   is it about you're curious about this

00:33:15   production like what how did it become

00:33:17   such a phenom yeah do you have any

00:33:19   insight into that

00:33:20   for me yeah I mean I think just because

00:33:22   of my own way in with it was I had not

00:33:24   heard about this at all yeah at all and

00:33:27   then mmm I saw a couple people on

00:33:31   political Twitter making jokes about

00:33:33   Jesus Christ Superstar and referencing

00:33:35   mr. shows Jeepers Creepers and and I

00:33:38   thought that's kind of weird everybody's

00:33:39   mentioning that and then it didn't seem

00:33:41   like it was until like I think Saturday

00:33:43   night Sunday morning that I was even

00:33:45   aware that this was gonna be a thing I

00:33:46   don't know I don't know where I mean I

00:33:49   just there's a testament to this is the

00:33:51   fact that when I did flip it on at 7:58

00:33:53   last night there was a show where Steve

00:33:55   Harvey talks to talented children - oh I

00:33:58   didn't know existed because I don't know

00:33:59   I don't know most TV exists not cuz I'm

00:34:02   a snob but just cuz that's the nature of

00:34:03   TV today let's find out about it and I

00:34:05   am a fan of I mean I guess I'm a fan of

00:34:09   the musical I'm really a super fan of a

00:34:13   handful of the songs yeah and my

00:34:16   daughter is getting more into what you

00:34:19   could generally call musical theater I

00:34:21   mean she likes some musicals a lot and

00:34:23   especially some kind of like especially

00:34:24   stage II things a lot I thought you know

00:34:26   this could be fun she doesn't know if

00:34:27   Jesus I had to give her a lot of like

00:34:29   backstory on what's happening with Judas

00:34:30   Jesus backstory yeah basically said

00:34:33   Judas Judas in this is good apart from

00:34:35   also being a black guy Judas and this is

00:34:37   kind of like Aaron Burr and Hamilton

00:34:39   he's the ring he sort of down to earth

00:34:42   he's worried about being practical yeah

00:34:44   but no that's the time I found out about

00:34:45   it we watched it I let her watch a

00:34:47   little bit of it she got to see Caiaphas

00:34:48   in the shed to go to bed I know a lot

00:34:50   about Steve Harvey mm-hmm

00:34:53   because I follow do you know Vic burger

00:34:56   is well he makes the funny videos right

00:34:58   he makes the funny videos yeah Joey

00:35:00   knows about Kenan Thompson's

00:35:01   impersonation of him from Sarah alive

00:35:04   that's the guy that the guy you like I'm

00:35:05   Sara alive is impersonated he Victor gur

00:35:09   makes little videos oh my gosh so funny

00:35:12   his Jim Baker it is oh my god they're

00:35:14   they're awful

00:35:16   but his Steve Harvey videos are are also

00:35:19   he hasn't made one in a while but

00:35:20   they're very fun and so I have a so I

00:35:23   became aware of Steve Harvey and then

00:35:25   you know did a little background

00:35:27   research on him to know what the hell I

00:35:28   was looking at the Jim Baker food

00:35:31   buckets that's that is a very very funny

00:35:34   assist ivar he's like he's kind of a

00:35:36   throwback maybe a little bit along the

00:35:39   lines of Chris Hardwick kind of a

00:35:40   throwback to a kind of character you

00:35:42   don't see as much anymore actually the

00:35:44   kind of character I always thought you

00:35:45   should aspire to be which is a TV

00:35:47   personality you got people who just show

00:35:49   up and do stuff in different places and

00:35:51   sometimes they have a regular show or

00:35:53   another regular show but they're just

00:35:54   like a fixture of TV to a mental says

00:35:59   disparagingly but to administer your

00:36:00   mind you go oh look that Steve Harvey

00:36:01   he's doing another thing yeah sort of

00:36:04   like what sort of like I don't say Paul

00:36:06   Lin but sort of like along the lines of

00:36:09   somebody you would see on Mike Douglas

00:36:10   you know who might host you know battle

00:36:13   the network stars or something

00:36:15   I mean that that world doesn't exist

00:36:17   anymore and I and that's kind of the

00:36:19   thing that confuses me about this thing

00:36:22   that you watched last night because it

00:36:24   feels like a throwback to a time when

00:36:26   everybody sat down to watch the day

00:36:28   after no you're gonna watch the one

00:36:37   you're gonna watch the show where

00:36:39   there's not that much event viewing

00:36:41   anymore and in any age of so lots of

00:36:44   people like idiots like me will there

00:36:47   are a handful of shows like Game of

00:36:48   Thrones that I will watch the second

00:36:50   that it comes on but you can't really

00:36:52   talk about it because the spoilers and

00:36:54   stuff but like a part if you're not in

00:36:55   the world of live sports you don't have

00:36:58   that much community event viewing

00:37:01   anymore right community event viewing

00:37:04   and well you know I don't even have a TV

00:37:09   oh of course I don't either

00:37:11   I thought you have TV I don't know about

00:37:13   it but so you were saying earlier that

00:37:15   you were like oh

00:37:17   and I have the wrong keyboard and and

00:37:19   and so in my mind all of a sudden not

00:37:22   only did did my mind generate a world in

00:37:25   which you have like a shelf with between

00:37:29   nine and fifteen keyboards and you pull

00:37:32   them down like like people from West

00:37:34   Virginia deploy rifles yeah oh man I

00:37:37   need my or just like oh I need my Gibson

00:37:40   SG for this song you're like oh this is

00:37:43   my router come the line keyboard doing a

00:37:45   personal Harold you're like bringing all

00:37:46   the topics together and and and so I was

00:37:54   like wow but then I thought then

00:37:56   immediately I left - oh shit do I not

00:37:59   have enough keyboards oh no I was just

00:38:03   like Oh Merlin didn't tell me I needed

00:38:05   multiple keyboards and now you send me a

00:38:08   picture and what it seems like you have

00:38:10   is an analog clickety clack keyboard and

00:38:13   then you have that great little keyboard

00:38:15   that you told me to buy a long time ago

00:38:20   the little solar-powered keyboard and I

00:38:23   still have mine and not only do I have

00:38:25   one but I got another one for another

00:38:28   key or another computer and I think

00:38:31   they're just great little keyboards so

00:38:33   you were saying you were gonna be on the

00:38:34   clackety-clack one but look at all the

00:38:36   gears you see all the dander on these

00:38:37   yeah yeah yeah I posted a picture of my

00:38:42   keyboard one time and I got like 45

00:38:45   disgusting anymore I got a box cutter

00:38:49   you terrorist scotch tape you like

00:38:51   scotch brand tape expensive earphones I

00:38:55   bet I bet though five dollar bill I

00:38:57   can't believe you still use cash what is

00:39:02   that is that a moleskin pair why don't

00:39:07   you if it's a solar keyboard why don't

00:39:09   you clean off the solar part monkey

00:39:11   solar part thanks thanks thanks buddy I

00:39:13   got it I got a tweet yesterday that was

00:39:17   and this is how you know that there it's

00:39:19   a crazy tweet because although it's only

00:39:22   at they only at me they're speaking as

00:39:27   though they are talking about me to a

00:39:29   group of people

00:39:31   check the tweet before that one oh I see

00:39:34   where Professor Roderick yeah she I

00:39:38   think this was just out of the blue or

00:39:40   no it was in reply cuz I sent out some I

00:39:42   sent out some tweets I mean you get

00:39:44   you're getting lots of lots of responses

00:39:45   to your nice tweets that was a nice

00:39:47   tweet storm you did well I was very I'm

00:39:49   pretty shy about about promoting myself

00:39:52   and yeah and about promoting the podcast

00:39:56   but you did it well you did it well and

00:39:57   you were real straight up about it you

00:39:58   didn't go hey for the afternoon crowd in

00:40:00   case you missed it titillating yeah you

00:40:03   were straight up you said hey I make

00:40:04   these podcasts and I'm happy I'm proud

00:40:06   of these and if you're not listening to

00:40:07   them I like you to give them a try and I

00:40:09   thought you're a real gentleman about it

00:40:10   well and I got a lot of nice nice nice

00:40:13   replies a lot of a lot of people that

00:40:15   that you know that obviously like

00:40:18   Roderick on the line was their

00:40:19   introduction and and their and they

00:40:22   still love the show and they wanted to

00:40:24   say how much that they did and and you

00:40:26   know I love that stuff although that's

00:40:27   not when I was president nixon said you

00:40:32   get a silent majority you get I mean the

00:40:34   truth is most people who listen dear to

00:40:36   a podcast like tend to like the podcast

00:40:39   and why would they ever say anything

00:40:40   about it

00:40:41   it's nice when people do that I'm happy

00:40:44   and humbled when people do that it makes

00:40:46   me very happy

00:40:47   yeah me too me too absolutely but then

00:40:50   but then and and and as you're just

00:40:52   describing like when I put them out

00:40:54   there I thought you're cuz every time

00:40:58   you're reading the replies you're like

00:40:59   well how long before I get how long

00:41:02   before I get a turkey here how long

00:41:04   before I get that before I met the wonka

00:41:06   factory and the goose that's laying the

00:41:08   golden eggs one of them goes and goes

00:41:10   down the shithole you know what I mean I

00:41:13   know and there was one that was just

00:41:15   like some asshole remark and I went and

00:41:18   looked at their bio and their Twitter

00:41:19   bio was like I'm an asshole I was like

00:41:21   okay you're easy to block yeah but this

00:41:25   couple years ago I couldn't you know it

00:41:31   said no the one that's the one that was

00:41:35   like I'm an asshole was just you know

00:41:36   like what do you call three white guys

00:41:39   sitting around with nothing to talk

00:41:41   about a podcast it's like

00:41:43   that's good stuff that's good you should

00:41:46   never take it on the road but no this

00:41:49   guy was like I used to love Roderick on

00:41:52   the line I listen to it all the time it

00:41:54   was you know might be a number one show

00:41:56   or whatever but I listen to friendly

00:41:59   fire my podcast where I talk about war

00:42:01   movies and John was so mean to Saving

00:42:06   Private Ryan hmm

00:42:08   that I can't listen to any of the shows

00:42:12   anymore not only know that sounds like a

00:42:14   straight-up medical situation very very

00:42:17   difficult to diagnose what happened is

00:42:20   that what happened is Johnson did make a

00:42:22   movie and now you can't listen to his

00:42:23   stuff well it wasn't just the night that

00:42:25   I said I do like Saving Private Ryan I

00:42:29   might have like oversold how mad I guess

00:42:33   we just complement things all the time

00:42:39   movies if you don't like wow this bag

00:42:43   check mix check party mix not really

00:42:46   good I like every single thing in it I

00:42:48   can't even I don't even know which one

00:42:50   to praise most they're all so good I can

00:42:52   imagine why anybody would love these

00:42:54   more than all of their foods I could not

00:42:56   praise anyone more than another you get

00:42:59   oh you know what you forgot you forgot

00:43:01   this other check mix that I make these

00:43:03   never heard of you forgot you forgot I

00:43:05   love you for God guy oh there was a guy

00:43:07   that replied and said oh yeah podcasts

00:43:10   were great you should listen to mine

00:43:15   another guy like a pretty excellent guy

00:43:18   was like that's kind of not how you do

00:43:21   it you don't do that you don't like

00:43:23   reply to somebody's really nice tweet

00:43:26   stream about what they're making with a

00:43:28   link to your own thing and then the guy

00:43:30   applied to that guy oh boy and said it's

00:43:33   on he said you don't know me man I'm

00:43:36   living in my car right now and still I'm

00:43:37   managing to put podcasts out every week

00:43:43   [Music]

00:43:44   he was like well you know like being

00:43:47   poor and being an asshole are not

00:43:49   mutually exclusive Oh doctor what are

00:43:51   you

00:43:52   I just always we talked about this

00:43:54   before I've talked about this everywhere

00:43:55   I'm sorry it's just how I feel I think

00:43:58   one must be very careful about feeling a

00:44:02   level of familiarity with a stranger -

00:44:04   to where your first time that you

00:44:07   address them you address them as though

00:44:10   they know you as well as you feel you

00:44:14   know them and I almost did it last night

00:44:16   somebody like that I like and follow on

00:44:18   political Twitter who has no idea who I

00:44:19   am had a hot take on how Godspell is

00:44:21   better than Jesus Christ Superstar which

00:44:23   of course is a garbage opinion and I was

00:44:25   I was about to make a joke about it and

00:44:27   then I thought wait a minute if somebody

00:44:29   if somebody did that to me I'd go like

00:44:32   this / like you know basically the sound

00:44:36   of running into something in an old

00:44:37   video game try the key again and like

00:44:44   that my first interaction with Matthew

00:44:46   Gertz might have been ma I'm gonna let

00:44:48   you have this one because it's Easter

00:44:50   Matthew Gertz and of course you would

00:44:52   see that I close the window I'm gonna be

00:44:59   my first interaction with this person

00:45:00   that I like and admire is to be an

00:45:02   asshole and I was like don't be that guy

00:45:04   ya see I'm not even saying you have to

00:45:08   go and like roll out of carpet and bring

00:45:10   a fizzy drink and say oh I love

00:45:11   everything you do but like don't don't

00:45:13   assume like a level of familiarity that

00:45:15   thought that's not there somebody is

00:45:17   there with you well look what happened

00:45:18   with that guy decade that somebody

00:45:20   turned around did that to him and he got

00:45:22   all touchy about it oh he was mad he was

00:45:23   mad in fact he ended up texting and

00:45:26   tweeting me that he blocked the other

00:45:27   dude oh and I was like hey buddy you and

00:45:30   I are not the friends in this scenario

00:45:32   like you and I are not the ones that are

00:45:34   conspiring against the other guy who is

00:45:35   moving myself from this narrow but I you

00:45:39   know I still do it where I see somebody

00:45:42   I admire on Twitter that I think is

00:45:44   doing something funny and I try to chime

00:45:46   in with some funny thing like law

00:45:51   [Laughter]

00:45:55   and I'm just like oh and then I kind of

00:45:58   you know my shoulders sag and I'm like

00:46:04   you know and then I would go through a

00:46:06   little minute or two where I'm like just

00:46:07   don't even bother my friend Elon Gale

00:46:21   right the the producer of The Bachelor

00:46:24   the airplane guy because he's the

00:46:25   airplane he says he's whatever Janet and

00:46:29   c7c try his troublemaker he's a

00:46:33   troublemaker and he probably gets 20,000

00:46:35   replies to every tweet he does oh yeah

00:46:37   like let me let me redo your joke in a

00:46:39   not as funny way or explain it to you

00:46:40   yeah yep

00:46:42   but he's incredibly good about making

00:46:45   sure that if if I like jump in and go

00:46:55   like a little leg up he always gives me

00:46:58   a prop he oh he always like he always

00:47:00   does a touch right he just like reaches

00:47:02   out and and even if it's just like yeah

00:47:04   buddy

00:47:04   he he's super duper duper considerate

00:47:08   about the about like there's my friend

00:47:11   and I don't know how he does it I don't

00:47:12   know how he's scanning through all this

00:47:14   stuff and maybe he has some setting

00:47:15   where he's just like people I know are

00:47:17   the only ones I want to see oh it's good

00:47:20   about just like hello and gives that

00:47:23   little touch that's nice I'm not good at

00:47:25   it people are like you know trying to

00:47:27   jump in all the time and I'm just like

00:47:28   yeah that's funny that's funny but I

00:47:29   don't like give them a bunch of I'm not

00:47:31   like throwing a game at everybody yeah

00:47:36   but boy it's unseemly it is but but but

00:47:40   you know if I'm like jumping in on some

00:47:41   some thread of friends and I'm like yeah

00:47:44   you guys and it's just like you know

00:47:46   just to hear that tumbleweed never try

00:47:51   never try just go just go die aren't you

00:47:54   being a try-hard

00:47:55   this is a term I learned last week are

00:47:56   you being a trihard mmm see now I need

00:47:59   you a good thing to do are you are you

00:48:00   here for this is this everything right

00:48:02   now I'm here

00:48:09   everybody's telling you what they're

00:48:11   here for

00:48:11   Oh tell me though tell me that is

00:48:14   everything or or or sometimes there are

00:48:16   some kinds of things that are too real

00:48:18   what do these things mean oh I don't

00:48:20   know like these Easter eggs were too

00:48:21   real Twitter told me too real no what

00:48:24   you real like oh man who to to real I'm

00:48:28   here for this I'm here for this I'm here

00:48:30   for this where do you put the accent I'm

00:48:37   here I'm here for this

00:48:39   oh man you uh you uh untangled a lot of

00:48:43   wire there well you know the thing that

00:48:45   was going around a few years ago which

00:48:47   was I'm done Oh

00:48:49   [Music]

00:48:50   people were like all right I'm done and

00:48:53   it wasn't friendly it wasn't like I'm

00:48:55   done it was like I'm done and they were

00:48:59   so gallantly Sam over this yeah it was

00:49:03   like a mic drop thing where they have

00:49:04   some exchange with somebody and then

00:49:06   they just be like I'm done mm-hm as

00:49:07   though like they were some you know some

00:49:12   King in a like a 50s teleplay who was

00:49:16   like off with his head or something or

00:49:18   like vaudeville they're giving you the

00:49:19   hook oh the hook right but but it wasn't

00:49:23   funny or friendly and I remember so I

00:49:26   when I was running for City Council

00:49:28   I was sitting in the stranger offices

00:49:31   with their election Control Board with

00:49:35   my opponents the three of us were

00:49:37   sitting in or four of us I'm sorry we're

00:49:39   sitting around a big table with all of

00:49:41   the stranger editorial writers and they

00:49:43   were peppering us with hard question

00:49:45   hats it said press on them they

00:49:48   basically did and there was an on the

00:49:51   election Control Board there were like

00:49:52   three people who were older in the my

00:49:56   age area one of them was Dan Savage

00:49:59   who's Lou older than me one of them was

00:50:02   Tim Keck the publisher who's a little

00:50:03   older than me but they were like put

00:50:05   olds and then there were the Youngs who

00:50:07   were all in their mid 20s who were like

00:50:10   the radical stranger writers who believe

00:50:12   that private property should be

00:50:14   abolished and that we don't need police

00:50:17   and they were really one of them in

00:50:20   particular who ended up getting fired

00:50:21   from the stranger for being a dickhole

00:50:23   and like a not not just personality wise

00:50:26   but he was fired because he did

00:50:29   unscrupulous journalistic things that's

00:50:31   not good you know what that no and I

00:50:33   never liked it means that he's a tool

00:50:34   and a bad writer but he definitely felt

00:50:38   like he wanted the other guy to win my

00:50:43   opponent to win he could use it was just

00:50:44   written all over him and he was asking

00:50:46   peppering me with questions about stuff

00:50:49   that my opponent was an expert on so one

00:50:53   of my opponents was a housing like a

00:50:56   housing advocate and he was directing

00:51:01   the the the writer was directing a

00:51:04   stream of increasingly hostile questions

00:51:07   to me like well what's your housing plan

00:51:08   and essentially my answer was my housing

00:51:12   plan is once I'm elected I'm gonna hire

00:51:13   this guy to my right to be my housing

00:51:15   guy what are you talking about what's my

00:51:17   housing plan I'm not gonna go

00:51:18   head-to-head with a with my opponent

00:51:20   who's got it for ten years has been

00:51:22   developing a housing plan mm-hmm like

00:51:25   I'm running for City Council not for

00:51:27   housing guy and at one point he said he

00:51:32   leaned back in his chair and he was like

00:51:33   I've done really yeah that's the thing

00:51:37   that he said yeah and I felt what when

00:51:40   you go back when you run for office like

00:51:42   that it's a very concentrated set of

00:51:46   events where apparently if I'm any

00:51:50   indication the rest of your life you

00:51:52   will be replaying those moments ongoing

00:51:54   oh you know what I should have said

00:51:55   because it's a lot of those things all

00:51:58   at once and you know you build up a

00:52:00   lifetime's a lifetime worth of what I

00:52:05   should have said like what every time

00:52:07   I'm driving necessary tasks ali-a yeah

00:52:09   if I drive for very long I will my mind

00:52:12   will start to go to some event in a

00:52:15   union hall somewhere where I should have

00:52:17   told somebody where they could put it

00:52:20   and what I should have said to that guy

00:52:22   was exactly what I mean you're done

00:52:28   gonna done like that

00:52:30   but you're done yeah buddy now you don't

00:52:32   want to become that guy where you're

00:52:34   famous for that interview well you know

00:52:38   I'd rather be famous for that interview

00:52:39   that not famous for that interview

00:52:41   that's a what Scott said you know I

00:52:46   could have I would have happily burned

00:52:48   that place down because the stranger was

00:52:51   supposed to they were supposed to be my

00:52:52   friends right I've known I've been part

00:52:55   of the stranger I've written for the

00:52:56   stranger they're all they're all pals

00:52:58   you know and yet they had this every

00:53:02   three years they hire a bunch of new

00:53:04   young writers and the new young writers

00:53:07   weren't friends of mine they didn't know

00:53:08   anything about me and it was like oh I

00:53:10   expected some leftist Oldboy Network

00:53:14   treatment where I was like the stranger

00:53:17   has been you know like the stranger is a

00:53:19   radical newspaper I'm a radical we've

00:53:21   always been on the same page but now

00:53:24   there are a bunch of 24 year olds that

00:53:25   think I'm a that think I'm some crusty

00:53:31   ten years ago I in the spirit of your

00:53:35   personal Harold I feel like there's a

00:53:37   sort of a threat that runs through some

00:53:39   of this stuff that something is

00:53:40   something that I try to be aware of

00:53:41   because I think it's important I mean

00:53:44   one problem when we communicate with

00:53:46   others and especially today in the

00:53:48   weirdly mediated way that we have access

00:53:50   to strangers not the titular stranger

00:53:54   but people we don't know I I feel like

00:53:58   there's a certain kind of I'm done

00:54:02   tone to things I certainly do it I'm

00:54:05   sure we all do it we all have limited

00:54:07   attention in patience and vulnerability

00:54:12   that we're willing to have destroyed but

00:54:14   I think I think one thing you don't have

00:54:17   to be cute about this you don't have to

00:54:20   be like a fakie weirdo about it but like

00:54:24   when you're interacting with people in

00:54:26   general I think it's important to try

00:54:29   and leave room leave air like you don't

00:54:33   need to settle every mystery immediately

00:54:35   there should be it doesn't necessarily

00:54:36   like a flirtation but in interactions

00:54:38   that you have with people there should

00:54:41   you unless you have a real unless you're

00:54:44   like you know

00:54:44   serving a warrant like generally try and

00:54:47   leave some air try to leave some room

00:54:50   for joy for playfulness for the other

00:54:55   person to have an opportunity to to get

00:54:57   get their fun in as well but also and I

00:55:02   want to say this I'm not saying you have

00:55:03   to have a relationship with everybody

00:55:04   but like it seems like a lot of

00:55:06   communication in some ways especially on

00:55:09   the internet especially in places like

00:55:10   Twitter comes down to like you're a bad

00:55:12   person

00:55:13   you're a bad person and I would never

00:55:15   want to have a relationship with you and

00:55:18   even if that relationship is just kind

00:55:20   of a silent from a distance enjoying

00:55:22   another person's stuff in your case I

00:55:23   mean that was probably kind of not cool

00:55:25   of that person I understand their job is

00:55:26   to comfort the affor to afflict the

00:55:28   company and all that kind of stuff but

00:55:30   like when even in the way you ask

00:55:32   interview questions of people like give

00:55:35   people some space to answer in an

00:55:38   interesting way and if they don't if

00:55:39   they aren't answering the question you

00:55:41   could pursue them but like I feel like

00:55:42   in so many of our interactions we are

00:55:45   we're trying to create some kind of a

00:55:48   conversational trap that leaves no room

00:55:51   for this to go anywhere

00:55:52   we're basically you're just going mad

00:55:54   and then it just stops right there and

00:55:56   like I mean I don't have one specific

00:55:58   example of this that I can give but like

00:56:00   I do know that like a certain amount of

00:56:02   lightness and playfulness and like or

00:56:04   you know or curiosity is maybe another

00:56:07   way to put it like don't be afraid to be

00:56:09   curious and you don't have to be a

00:56:11   weirdo about it but it's what I when

00:56:13   you're communicating with people on

00:56:14   Twitter like think about that like think

00:56:15   about whether you are preemptively

00:56:17   shutting down an actual conversation

00:56:18   that you could have with somebody if it

00:56:20   is a conversation you want having if

00:56:21   it's not just mute them and have them go

00:56:23   away but I don't know I I I don't mean

00:56:26   to be a concern troll here but I worry

00:56:29   that that what starts out as something

00:56:31   we type with our fingers on our phone

00:56:32   can start to affect the way that we

00:56:34   think about any interaction and now

00:56:35   becomes become super annoyed about

00:56:37   everybody in line at the grocery store

00:56:38   and we forget that this is water and

00:56:40   like I don't know I just I'd like to try

00:56:41   and keep that in mind and if I if I I'm

00:56:43   genuinely curious about another person I

00:56:45   want to give them room to take this

00:56:47   thing where they want to go with it

00:56:48   rather than feeling like I'm going to

00:56:50   constrict them or or creep them out by

00:56:52   giving some kind of decisive punctuation

00:56:55   mark about this non relationship we have

00:56:58   I wonder if it is a I wonder if it's a

00:57:01   thing where like wouldn't when we've

00:57:05   talked about this quite a bit when we

00:57:07   were young there were still a lot of

00:57:10   unsolved mysteries yeah right the leaf

00:57:15   flu sure talked about this the Bermuda

00:57:17   Triangle etc or just knowing who the guy

00:57:22   in that show is the unsolved mysteries

00:57:25   yeah no sorry

00:57:26   who was that's not Leonard Nimoy isn't

00:57:29   yeah but was it John Walsh I don't even

00:57:34   I wouldn't know John Walsh would be

00:57:35   walked in right now and handed me a

00:57:36   cupcake okay but I could google him no

00:57:40   but you're right I mean like the obvious

00:57:42   example is like like me sitting there

00:57:43   last night watching a series of

00:57:44   unfortunate events and going look I know

00:57:47   that actress oh it's that actress from

00:57:48   the Austin Powers movies that I really

00:57:50   like and of course I'm able to look that

00:57:51   up instantly and drill straight into

00:57:52   that episode that just aired a day ago

00:57:54   and it's already there I already have

00:57:56   instantly the information about

00:57:58   something that I want immediately that's

00:57:59   a trivial example yeah

00:58:01   Oh John Walsh is exactly who I was

00:58:03   thinking of he's the host of America's

00:58:06   Most Wanted and Adam lost his father

00:58:08   right yeah you had that terrible

00:58:10   situation with his son that's how his

00:58:12   one doesn't want to say career but

00:58:14   that's like he's started off by being an

00:58:16   advocate for for kids well so that's not

00:58:20   that's probably not who did unsolved

00:58:22   mysteries but you're to my pal Gary his

00:58:25   name's Gary you're saying he's not right

00:58:28   Gary I got those tweets that is good

00:58:35   that was funny that was making fun of us

00:58:37   for not remembering one of our canonical

00:58:39   characters but but things that were not

00:58:49   know not easily findable but they not

00:58:51   even be knowable at all well I'm still a

00:58:54   great number of places in the world that

00:58:57   you felt like hadn't been explored right

00:58:59   islands in the South Pacific that were

00:59:02   uninhabited it was still plausible that

00:59:05   Gilligan and the skipper would get into

00:59:07   a shipwreck on a island that

00:59:10   could sustain life but that there just

00:59:12   wasn't anybody living there and it was

00:59:13   uncharted like there were uncharted

00:59:16   places who knew behind the Iron Curtain

00:59:18   who knew it was back they can't prove a

00:59:20   negative like how do you know Atlantis

00:59:22   doesn't exist what we have no way of

00:59:23   knowing we have no way of knowing and

00:59:25   now we've mapped the entire world we've

00:59:29   we believe we have overlaid it with a

00:59:32   grid system enough that we can pretty

00:59:35   much put our put our pinkie down on

00:59:38   anything we wanted to see and with

00:59:42   Wikipedia and everything else we feel

00:59:43   like we've called it all we've named

00:59:45   everything and all that's missing from

00:59:49   Wikipedia is stuff from the olden times

00:59:52   that we haven't brought forward and put

00:59:54   on but there's nothing happening now

00:59:56   that isn't being recorded there's

00:59:57   nothing you know if you

00:59:57   nothing you know if you

01:00:00   when I wanted to go sit and study Google

01:00:03   Earth we could find Gilligan we could

01:00:06   find anything we were looking for and

01:00:11   that's happened in a very brief amount

01:00:13   of time and so so there's an element to

01:00:16   the curiosity that we grew up being

01:00:20   expected to have or it was kind of baked

01:00:23   in a kind of curiosity about what is in

01:00:28   the forest even like oh if I go into the

01:00:31   woods here next to my house cuz I'm a

01:00:34   little kid I don't know how big the

01:00:35   woods are and I imagine maybe the woods

01:00:38   go forever and maybe these will go into

01:00:40   you dig a hole to China yeah right it's

01:00:43   gonna Sherwood Forest or whatever and

01:00:45   now there's a maybe I feel like in the

01:00:49   world a sense that everything's mapped

01:00:51   and so there isn't that feeling that oh

01:00:56   you know maybe no one's ever been in

01:00:59   this cave maybe no one's ever I mean

01:01:02   from the time that you're small uh-huh

01:01:04   Oh what if I'm the first person to ever

01:01:06   climb this tree yeah yeah yeah and so is

01:01:09   our relationship to curiosity changings

01:01:12   so that all these responses that we're

01:01:15   getting to on the on the internet

01:01:17   there's not a feeling that anybody else

01:01:19   has anything to teach you anymore like

01:01:21   you you already know everything -

01:01:24   everything's already known it's not a

01:01:26   question of learning it's a question of

01:01:29   just opinion like it's not it's not that

01:01:32   I didn't know that it's that I just

01:01:34   didn't have an opinion about it yet and

01:01:36   it's so different from when when we were

01:01:40   kids where I was just like you know when

01:01:42   I heard that maybe Led Zeppelin Jimmy

01:01:44   Page was like I had bought aleister

01:01:47   crowley's house I was like it is the

01:01:49   music of Led Zeppelin amazing because

01:01:51   Jimmy Page talking to the devil and now

01:01:54   they would even if I was the little

01:01:56   eight years old

01:01:57   there'd be like eleven other

01:01:59   eight-year-olds who are like well

01:02:00   actually mm-hmm snows know whether I

01:02:04   don't know what how to teach curiosity

01:02:08   or how to how to do what you're saying

01:02:10   like reply to people and say leave some

01:02:12   space

01:02:13   like like let it be interesting I

01:02:17   totally agree and like yeah this is I

01:02:19   don't mean this to sound sexist sexist

01:02:21   because I think it's actually true of

01:02:22   everybody but one of the first things I

01:02:24   remember hearing in terms of grown-up

01:02:26   relationship advice that I found to be

01:02:28   very useful especially given my

01:02:30   personality this is now this is such a

01:02:32   cliche a but B it's also it's true of I

01:02:35   think all sexes in sexes and genders

01:02:37   which is like when somebody especially

01:02:39   historically you see like a woman wants

01:02:41   to talk about something men have a

01:02:44   tendency to once you solve a problem and

01:02:47   I feel silly even saying this because

01:02:49   everybody knows this at this point

01:02:50   supposedly but like the idea is that

01:02:53   like somebody comes to you and they want

01:02:54   to talk about Oh God

01:02:56   you know Barbara at work has been really

01:03:00   kind of been a thorn in my side lately

01:03:01   and like you know she didn't invite me

01:03:04   to this meeting and I'm not sure if I

01:03:06   should feel weird about that and like

01:03:08   men tend to want to like me tend to want

01:03:11   to jump in and go well you should go

01:03:13   straight to your boss or you should talk

01:03:14   to Barbara or you should send an email

01:03:15   my credit but let me solve this problem

01:03:17   for you before you're even done with the

01:03:18   sentence let alone the paragraph where

01:03:20   really that person maybe maybe wasn't

01:03:22   looking for a solution that person just

01:03:25   wanted to talk about something in their

01:03:26   life that they maybe don't want a

01:03:28   solution for and maybe the talking and

01:03:31   like could be sometimes the talking

01:03:33   about it is the solution but like you

01:03:36   don't you know and I really really

01:03:38   struggle with this in life like I don't

01:03:40   like when people finish my sentences

01:03:41   like I don't want to finish other

01:03:43   people's sentences because sometimes

01:03:44   they just need to ramble a little bit

01:03:46   I've talked about this I think as a

01:03:48   component in the relationship between my

01:03:51   mother and sister my sister comes home

01:03:54   and is one of these people that wants to

01:03:55   just talk about the problems that she

01:03:56   had during the day no she's not doing it

01:04:03   she's not filing a bug she's not looked

01:04:05   on so like in an hour

01:04:07   I need this solved does not want a it

01:04:10   does not want the problem solved wants

01:04:12   to I mean basically wants to bitch about

01:04:14   it

01:04:14   yes and then at the end be done and my

01:04:19   mom is someone who wants to solve the

01:04:23   problem and she's a grown man she is she

01:04:27   saw

01:04:27   problems yeah she's just like well why

01:04:29   don't you talk to your manager why oh

01:04:30   here's that you know here's something

01:04:31   you could do unplug maybe with a little

01:04:33   bit of hint of like this is actually not

01:04:34   that complicated

01:04:36   absolutely I mean I think there's that

01:04:38   kind of an important aspect of the like

01:04:39   why is this a problem well but also the

01:04:41   flip side of it is that bitching about

01:04:45   stuff is uncomfortable for certain

01:04:50   people to listen to like my mom is

01:04:52   extremely impatient because she doesn't

01:04:55   want to hear because to her ears it's

01:04:58   just like belly ain't what why are you

01:05:00   complacent like either solve the problem

01:05:03   or get used to it you know get

01:05:06   accustomed to it and deal with it and

01:05:08   like stop complaining is my mom's take

01:05:11   on it and so it's a it's it's a long bin

01:05:15   when it starts to happen in my house I

01:05:17   usually pick up the newspaper so just

01:05:24   slowly edge out of the room like without

01:05:26   saying it's like I'm behind the

01:05:28   newspaper I'm reading an article showing

01:05:31   fuse that has just been to another

01:05:35   response does she for years it was just

01:05:39   really frustrating because they had not

01:05:41   identified this as the dynamic Susan's

01:05:45   response was just to get more and more

01:05:46   agitated because she's like well yeah

01:05:50   like sure I could unplug the

01:05:52   refrigerator but that's not the point

01:05:53   right and the point is sometimes what

01:05:56   you're really saying is yeah I know I

01:05:59   know the world is that way I don't want

01:06:02   the world to be that way you know saying

01:06:04   you know I don't tell me how to change

01:06:06   the world just listen to me be

01:06:07   frustrated that the world is this way

01:06:09   yeah and it and it was and my mom just

01:06:13   got more and more frustrated to like

01:06:14   shell if you don't want if you don't

01:06:15   want my advice why are you coming home I

01:06:17   can see but I can see and have been on

01:06:19   both points of view both sides of that

01:06:21   yeah and I think there is a there is a

01:06:24   culture of well I don't know I mean like

01:06:27   for myself personally I try it's not

01:06:34   even that I try it is not in my nature

01:06:36   to complain

01:06:38   there are times when I protest like if I

01:06:43   go up to the counter at an airline and

01:06:45   they say you do not get blank I say I

01:06:51   would like to lodge a protest what do

01:06:53   you mean I'm not getting an upgrade but

01:06:56   that's a protest once they say you don't

01:06:59   get an upgrade or once they say sorry

01:07:01   we're not going to let you put your

01:07:03   guitar in the overhead bin because we

01:07:07   didn't read the memo from the US Senate

01:07:09   or whatever I don't then sit in the

01:07:12   chair and complain you know I'm like

01:07:18   resolved and resolved being a part of it

01:07:22   is that I feel like I deserve suffering

01:07:23   but but also like there is no point to

01:07:28   it because I cannot win now you know and

01:07:32   my mom is the same way like well you

01:07:34   know if I have to wear these shoes that

01:07:36   are made out of fire then I guess I have

01:07:37   to wear a shoes made out of fire I don't

01:07:39   like it but what does it serve to

01:07:42   complain and my sister on yeah on the

01:07:44   other hand is going you know her way of

01:07:47   processing the events that happened to

01:07:49   her is just kind of like putting them

01:07:52   out there in the form of either

01:07:56   celebration or lament and but it is

01:08:01   participatory right my mom does not

01:08:03   require my sister to to help her process

01:08:08   her events because she is doing them

01:08:11   internally and quietly but my sister

01:08:12   does require my mom she does require a

01:08:16   listener it wouldn't be sufficient to

01:08:18   just make a cage and put some socks

01:08:21   around it and have a and have a bowl of

01:08:24   food in it so Susan could cling to it

01:08:26   and yell at day it wouldn't that would

01:08:29   not work right she needs someone to

01:08:34   listen and pay and that pay that

01:08:36   attention somehow and that it feels like

01:08:38   another example of like the

01:08:42   introvert/extrovert issue where the

01:08:46   extrovert is like introverts are

01:08:51   very very aware of extrovert culture

01:08:55   introverts know what extrovert world

01:08:59   looks like because they can't help but

01:09:02   know yeah it's like it's like not being

01:09:04   into sports like I'm not into sports but

01:09:06   boy do I ever have to know about sports

01:09:07   right

01:09:08   but extroverts are not aware of

01:09:10   introvert culture or their needs because

01:09:12   why would they be all they see are other

01:09:15   extroverts and introverts just seem like

01:09:18   people who are standing there waiting

01:09:19   for them to come talk to them and you

01:09:23   know it's like it's like when you talk

01:09:24   to black people about white culture

01:09:26   they're like look we know all about

01:09:27   white example is everywhere what a guy

01:09:36   butts into like three women talking on

01:09:38   the internet to explain what they must

01:09:39   understand about feminism yeah man it's

01:09:43   like Oh what you don't know about men

01:09:44   and they're like no seriously we know

01:09:47   that I can't even believe is real which

01:09:50   was where somebody responded to a woman

01:09:52   and said you know mansplaining is not

01:09:53   really a thing great but it's that but

01:10:01   it's that type of thing you know you

01:10:02   hear about you hear about this the

01:10:07   divide as being a thing of like not you

01:10:10   know like or or or the way you initially

01:10:13   started to describe it initially it was

01:10:15   presented as husband and wife was a wife

01:10:17   the model was that hey husbands you need

01:10:19   to listen to your wives more but like I

01:10:21   I only did that as a jumping-off point

01:10:23   of how I learned about it the truth is

01:10:24   it goes for everybody do you be aware

01:10:27   when somebody just wants to think out

01:10:29   loud a little bit there's a funny

01:10:30   episode of a very good episode of Parks

01:10:33   and Rec and I think you're probably not

01:10:35   a fan a huge fan but we're Chris Chris

01:10:40   Traeger the play by Rob Lowe like is

01:10:42   trying to is like his wife Quincy

01:10:46   Jones's daughter is pregnant and he

01:10:48   keeps trying to like fix everything and

01:10:50   and I forget who it was the system you

01:10:52   know here's your here's a trick go stop

01:10:54   talking except to periodically say that

01:10:56   sucks and like that is that is a way

01:10:59   over simplified shorthand but it's kind

01:11:01   of true like

01:11:02   adopt a that sucks attitude that has you

01:11:06   open to listening to that person rather

01:11:08   than trying to like explain how they're

01:11:10   being unhappy wrong yeah that's pretty

01:11:15   good yeah i'm i am definitely being

01:11:20   unhappy wrong periodically check in on

01:11:31   this podcast called i only listen to the

01:11:33   mountain goats i don't listen to every

01:11:34   episode but it's a very interesting idea

01:11:35   it's the guy from oh what show is it he

01:11:40   does night Vale i think i love that when

01:11:42   you are trying to remember something you

01:11:44   put put a little tremolo in it anyway

01:11:51   and they're going through god what album

01:11:54   is it all hell west texas but anyway and

01:11:56   they go through track by track and this

01:11:57   guy interviews John Darnielle who's a

01:11:59   very articulate guy I'm not a giant fan

01:12:01   of music but hear me out you know I I

01:12:02   know John pretty well nowadays and is a

01:12:05   very very bright guy extremely bright

01:12:07   guy but but that's really neat so the

01:12:09   the show has like a kind of chemistry to

01:12:11   it that would be impossible for obvious

01:12:13   reasons on any other show which is like

01:12:15   he's a very interesting writer who has

01:12:16   interesting thoughts about life and this

01:12:18   very good interviewer interviews him and

01:12:19   they talk about one song on the album

01:12:21   and then somebody covers it at the end

01:12:24   yeah yeah I need it on iTunes you can go

01:12:26   into all the songs like I think large

01:12:30   and grace did the best ever death metal

01:12:33   band from Denton like these great songs

01:12:35   but anyway a recent episode was source

01:12:37   decay which is a song that I really like

01:12:38   it's a slightly unusual mountain good

01:12:40   song for the time but long story short

01:12:41   the reason I mentioned this is he said

01:12:43   something you know how it is somebody

01:12:46   says something that once you hear it you

01:12:47   could God it's so obvious but I so

01:12:50   needed to hear that

01:12:51   and they're talking about the

01:12:53   composition of the song a little bit of

01:12:55   a looking into like how he writes a song

01:12:57   kind of from the inside out where

01:12:58   sometimes he starts with a little bit of

01:13:00   a detail like okay this guy this guy

01:13:02   goes to his old house to pick up the

01:13:03   mail what are the letters that he sees

01:13:05   and kind of builds out this story from

01:13:07   there right and it's very I think a very

01:13:10   interesting and kind of authentic way to

01:13:12   write a song which is like telling a

01:13:14   specific story with these specific

01:13:15   waypoints rad

01:13:16   starting with an outline of everything I

01:13:18   wanted to say in the song right

01:13:20   probably not the entirely dissimilar

01:13:21   from how you write I'm guessing but but

01:13:23   the guy said something so cool because

01:13:25   name is Joseph he's he was talking to

01:13:27   him about like well you know but what is

01:13:29   what is this mean in this song like is

01:13:30   this Jenny the same Jenny from the other

01:13:33   song but Jenny in it and I don't

01:13:35   remember his exact response but he's

01:13:37   basically saying yeah I don't know I

01:13:38   mean I don't know I could guess just as

01:13:40   much as you could guess but here's the

01:13:41   quote he said most people don't treasure

01:13:44   the unknown

01:13:45   most people want all the information I

01:13:47   never want all the information and I was

01:13:50   like oh man I shouldn't even tweet about

01:13:52   this but I'm gonna because I thought

01:13:54   that was so great I was like you know

01:13:55   what I'm kind of the same way I love

01:13:57   whilst I love being able to watch

01:13:59   Netflix and look up the name of an

01:14:01   actress in a scene that's no problem at

01:14:03   all while it's great to me to be three

01:14:05   seconds away from knowing drugs that

01:14:07   interact with grapefruit while I'm on a

01:14:09   podcast all great but I kind of I think

01:14:13   about when I started this is not a slam

01:14:14   on Star Wars but like I saw Star Wars

01:14:16   when it was just Star Wars like a week

01:14:18   after it came out I saw Star Wars I

01:14:20   didn't understand what are these

01:14:21   creatures what is going on I didn't know

01:14:23   that George Lucas had a name for every

01:14:25   single piece of equipment in every rock

01:14:27   in the entire area I had basically two

01:14:30   viewings of Star Wars the reviews about

01:14:32   it and then maybe like a Fangoria

01:14:34   magazine feature but like I didn't know

01:14:36   I don't have like a DK encyclopedia of

01:14:39   Star Wars and that was part of the fun I

01:14:41   wanted to know everything I would just

01:14:44   consume everything I could find about it

01:14:45   but there wasn't that much to consume

01:14:47   especially after the first one you know

01:14:48   I'm saying it was six or eight months

01:14:50   into the cycle before I mean they were

01:14:51   sending out coupons for the action

01:14:53   figures there were not big books about

01:14:54   it that were official books anyway I

01:14:57   trying to put that in front of you

01:14:58   because I thought John Darnielle saying

01:14:59   that was really smart I realize I'm the

01:15:01   same way like I I don't need to know

01:15:04   that there's an answer to like it you

01:15:06   know in that song is that Warren Beatty

01:15:09   like is that David David Branson it's

01:15:11   like I don't know I don't know if I need

01:15:13   to know I don't know if my enjoyment of

01:15:15   that song will change one way or another

01:15:17   if I know who you're so vain is about

01:15:19   does it have to be about one of them

01:15:21   maybe maybe that's a bad example but I

01:15:23   like the not knowing and I like the fact

01:15:25   that this is this is a this is a

01:15:26   snapshot of a little bit of a story and

01:15:28   like I don't

01:15:30   if you can even know all the details of

01:15:32   this especially if the person who wrote

01:15:34   it

01:15:34   choose chose to not have a codex or a a

01:15:39   rubric for being able to delineate what

01:15:42   everything in the song means and I have

01:15:44   to tell you that's one reason I love

01:15:46   your songs I don't know what the fuck

01:15:47   your songs are all about even when you

01:15:48   explain them to them to me I don't

01:15:50   understand though and I really like that

01:15:51   I I and I want to just toss to you do

01:15:54   you do you feel that way about do you

01:15:56   like the not knowing yeah there are

01:16:00   three three things that I that you're

01:16:02   inspiring me to think about I want to

01:16:04   say simultaneously the geographic

01:16:12   version of this somebody posted

01:16:14   something the other day that was like

01:16:16   did you know that Google knows

01:16:17   everything that you've ever done and

01:16:18   everything you've ever thought and said

01:16:19   and I was like oh no you know Google is

01:16:22   gonna be Google's gonna know all this

01:16:24   stuff about me and I went I followed the

01:16:26   link and you know Google does know

01:16:28   everything I've ever googled but that

01:16:30   would be very confusing to an algorithm

01:16:32   because it's like who are the you know

01:16:34   who are the last five kings of Armenia

01:16:36   it's like how are you gonna sell me but

01:16:39   but Google supposedly knows everywhere

01:16:43   I've been and I went to the thing where

01:16:45   it said you know Google it basically

01:16:47   knows everywhere you've been

01:16:49   and I was kind of excited about it like

01:16:50   where what what is this map that

01:16:52   Google's gonna draw of all the places

01:16:53   I've been like how exciting the truth is

01:16:57   it's actually kind of disappointing

01:16:58   you're like oh man Google I thought you

01:17:00   would know all the places I went well

01:17:02   and what's what is what was crazy was I

01:17:05   got there and there was no information

01:17:07   and then I realized that what I do I do

01:17:10   Google where things are I googled the

01:17:14   like is there traffic or whatever I

01:17:16   Google routes to things but I look at

01:17:19   the route and then I put my phone away

01:17:21   I have never followed GPS instructions

01:17:26   where it's like turn left like I put it

01:17:28   away I look at it like I used to look at

01:17:30   paper maps I get a sense of where it's

01:17:33   telling me to go but I never follows the

01:17:36   voice the machine and so Google doesn't

01:17:39   know where I've been

01:17:40   because I never because I always turn it

01:17:42   off

01:17:43   because I still don't want to know all

01:17:46   the answers like I don't want to get

01:17:48   there even if I'm late I don't want to

01:17:52   get there via the computers best

01:17:55   estimation of the fastest route I want

01:17:57   to find it that's like that's a big big

01:18:03   part of how I live in the world I want

01:18:05   to find it I know it's there

01:18:07   I know it's over there and I'm here in

01:18:10   that case you do know that there is an

01:18:11   answer that it does exist there is no

01:18:13   Stuckey's somewhere best right I'm going

01:18:16   to a place right I can I know where

01:18:18   Spokane generally is I want to get there

01:18:21   and not just be guided there by a by a

01:18:25   tour guide you know by a by up I don't

01:18:27   want to I don't want to ring in my nose

01:18:29   and somebody yanking on a rope that's

01:18:31   the geographic version but in response

01:18:33   to your thing you're the real thing the

01:18:36   John Danielle thing you know I think my

01:18:40   greatest regret about the success of my

01:18:46   band the and by success I mean the level

01:18:49   of success and one of the things about

01:18:52   I'm one of the things that complicates

01:18:54   my relationship with John Darnielle

01:18:55   personally is that he has and this is

01:18:58   true of so many I mean so many musicians

01:19:01   when you really get them down and get a

01:19:04   few drinks in them and they're sitting

01:19:05   around a campfire you can't help but say

01:19:09   if I just had like I don't want to be

01:19:13   Eddie Van Halen I just want the success

01:19:15   of John Darnielle the amount and kind of

01:19:20   success that he had and maybe maybe the

01:19:22   steadiness the Admiralty admirable

01:19:25   things about him is like just that he

01:19:26   seems so steady about he just keeps

01:19:27   doing the work he does the he does the

01:19:30   work and you know when you get to know

01:19:31   him personally he realize like oh it's

01:19:33   part of his process of coping right to

01:19:36   do the work like he's he is also

01:19:38   struggling as we all are with a

01:19:40   constellation of like contraindications

01:19:45   of grapefruit and he well his way of

01:19:48   getting through the year is is making

01:19:51   music and putting it out and that's true

01:19:52   of a lot of people I know and I have the

01:19:55   opposite of fliction or

01:19:56   some other you know I've ate too much

01:19:58   grapefruit but you know guys like if you

01:20:03   I mean I'm sure if you sat down with

01:20:05   Carl Newman and said how do you how do

01:20:07   you like your fame he'd say it's great

01:20:09   I'm very happy here

01:20:10   but I would you know wouldn't it be nice

01:20:12   if I had just the you know the fame of

01:20:16   Jonathan Richmond or well I don't know

01:20:17   who's anybody's comparison is but I

01:20:21   believe it was it was you even Bono has

01:20:24   a boss even Bono has a bond yeah but I

01:20:27   would love to sit down with somebody who

01:20:31   wanted to go through my music and talk

01:20:35   about what things meant because I when I

01:20:39   was writing it like everything I meant

01:20:42   something by everything there was no

01:20:45   there's no filler

01:20:47   I wasn't like well I need to get to the

01:20:49   chorus so I'm just gonna say the same

01:20:51   thing over again yeah I remember first

01:20:54   reading this I feel like in the John

01:20:56   chardee poetry book we said something

01:20:58   like make every line tell yeah and and

01:21:01   and and I think that's part of why I

01:21:03   mean when I listen to great pop music

01:21:06   and I'm and I realized that there are so

01:21:09   many songs that I really love where the

01:21:11   course is just like hey na na and I and

01:21:16   I love that music but like I just I just

01:21:19   filled the lyrics with meaning and I

01:21:23   want somebody to care enough and I know

01:21:25   that there are people that do but I

01:21:27   didn't have that you know like Darnell

01:21:30   and his band inspire a kind of cult II

01:21:34   reverence you can get kind of a lot law

01:21:37   of large numbers thing where they have

01:21:39   enough fans that they probably would

01:21:41   eventually get to meet some super smart

01:21:42   and engage people that were super fans

01:21:44   and would want to talk about it yeah and

01:21:46   and there are those people about the

01:21:49   long winters it's just that there's not

01:21:50   an audience for their output right

01:21:53   there's not like you could do a podcast

01:21:55   about John darn Yellin there'd be an

01:21:56   audience for it if there was a podcast

01:21:58   about the long winters there wouldn't be

01:21:59   necessarily very big audience for

01:22:02   listening to those songs digested but

01:22:06   you know I got a I got a I got an email

01:22:08   from

01:22:09   a guy the other day who was like I teach

01:22:11   literature I teach you know English

01:22:14   literature in college and I wanted to oh

01:22:18   and I asked my students to take your

01:22:21   line from the song which is a seven I

01:22:26   think where where I say every eyelash is

01:22:29   a picutre a wire and he was like you

01:22:32   know and I had to explain to people what

01:22:33   I just explained to them what tickets

01:22:35   were because they didn't know what

01:22:36   pickets were but then we talked about it

01:22:39   and I was like oh I was just I was

01:22:40   laying there in my in my little you know

01:22:43   cuddle cozy bunny suit like oh my god

01:22:48   someone somewhere is looking at a line

01:22:51   that I wrote but it meant so much to me

01:23:02   that that someone would do that and you

01:23:04   know what has been true the last half a

01:23:08   dozen years is the people that listen to

01:23:10   this show and the many attempts that

01:23:13   people have made to make a codex to make

01:23:17   a an encyclopaedia of of everything

01:23:21   we've talked about and all the different

01:23:22   cross references and stuff you know that

01:23:24   really like all those attempts even

01:23:28   though none of them has really succeeded

01:23:30   and become the definitive one and I

01:23:32   think there are there are a half a dozen

01:23:34   orphan projects where yeah yeah there

01:23:38   are people who have very very kindly

01:23:40   taken a stab at it for sure

01:23:41   yeah yeah and it's a lot to just a lot

01:23:44   to take on that thing is really to me

01:23:46   that's really useful I mean there's also

01:23:48   our friends show underscored David Smith

01:23:50   has done a wonderful thing where he does

01:23:54   voice recognition not why don't you call

01:23:56   it but he basically turns the show into

01:23:58   searchable words so if you want to find

01:24:00   a bit

01:24:01   I think stuff like that's great for

01:24:02   finding where a bit appeared but like

01:24:05   God please don't study it all too

01:24:06   carefully well that there's that but

01:24:09   also like I mean there's the impulse to

01:24:13   try and find like our witticisms or our

01:24:17   you know the first time some you know

01:24:19   somebody said this some of that and and

01:24:22   like the stories that the big the big

01:24:25   like stories the capital letter stories

01:24:27   but you know you and I have travel a lot

01:24:31   of ground and we you know and we kid and

01:24:35   then our fans kid back at us and then we

01:24:37   kid back at them about helping people

01:24:39   but you know there is license there is a

01:24:41   trove at least I mean and I don't mean

01:24:44   like necessarily even a treasure trove

01:24:45   but just a trove it might just be a

01:24:47   trove of dirty diapers but but it's a

01:24:56   troll yeah it's like a trench is a

01:25:03   treasure on to the trove trove calm

01:25:08   masks is your big customer hiding in

01:25:11   your company's email so ask they're

01:25:15   considering your company's email as a

01:25:17   trove of qualified leads like on

01:25:21   somebody's just sitting on the domain

01:25:26   trove calm wants to find the Glengarry

01:25:29   leads in your company's email it's

01:25:32   already there they do not pregnant are

01:25:34   wanting let's talk about something put

01:25:39   that culture gap but in terms of like of

01:25:42   not having the answers you know as much

01:25:48   time we spend a lot less time solving

01:25:50   problems than we do describing them and

01:25:55   a lot less time even describing problems

01:25:58   than just inhabiting them like a furry

01:26:03   costume yeah and I think probably a

01:26:07   portion of our problems aren't even

01:26:09   aren't even obvious to us we have people

01:26:11   that seen the show they're like you need

01:26:24   to take the subject and replace it with

01:26:26   the object you're gonna need an

01:26:27   associate degree in your own life to

01:26:29   even begin

01:26:30   staying what you don't fucking get about

01:26:32   what you don't understand about yourself

01:26:33   but like Darnell is super wise about you

01:26:39   know about a lot but there but he like

01:26:42   anybody has blind spots there are

01:26:44   certain aspects of darn yel that he

01:26:46   isn't wise about not just as a writer

01:26:50   you know or maybe principally not as a

01:26:52   writer then it's the same with me like

01:26:55   there's a lot of the there was a review

01:27:00   one time in the Salt Lake paper of

01:27:03   ultimatum one ultimatum first came out

01:27:06   and this reviewer really like was mad at

01:27:13   the song ultimatum in particular and you

01:27:17   know and gave this kind of excoriating

01:27:19   reveals why he's dreamy UK manic score

01:27:26   you any review which was not a negative

01:27:28   review it was a review that said this is

01:27:31   a beautiful song and well recorded by a

01:27:35   very interesting band and I disagree

01:27:37   with it and I was like go on you know

01:27:43   like I put a put a big napkin in the

01:27:45   front of my shirt and tucked myself in

01:27:47   and I was like tell me more and they had

01:27:50   listened to it enough to understand the

01:27:52   viewpoint of it and be mad at the

01:27:55   viewpoint which meant so much to me

01:27:59   because it was the rare interview or I'm

01:28:04   sorry the rare review of a record that

01:28:07   took that approach you know reviews are

01:28:10   just like wow this band sounds like that

01:28:13   band and their third song is a really

01:28:15   nice jangle pop blah blah blah but very

01:28:18   few people are like the viewpoint of the

01:28:21   narrator in this song I find it does not

01:28:25   like is not life-giving or whatever I

01:28:29   was just like

01:28:31   she'll be bore and and what they were

01:28:35   mad about was that the you know the

01:28:38   viewpoint of the narrator and ultimatum

01:28:41   is is your in a way you're kind of your

01:28:46   cowboy the one that doesn't want to be a

01:28:51   villager and but also kind of you know

01:28:56   wants to hang around the village and get

01:29:00   free drinks and they were and they felt

01:29:03   like it wasn't hopeful that there was

01:29:07   that the that the narrator himself

01:29:09   should try harder oh it was like yeah

01:29:13   man yeah yeah yeah take a stand take a

01:29:17   stand against this this this thinly

01:29:20   fictionalized character so did you like

01:29:27   it when people engage well obviously

01:29:30   yeah well I mean I don't know I don't I

01:29:34   don't think I wasn't trying to provoke

01:29:36   you I just think there are some people

01:29:37   who think well you know here's the thing

01:29:42   I said and I said it and like if you

01:29:44   really understood it you wouldn't need

01:29:45   to do all this parsing it's like stop

01:29:47   stop trying to understand this thing

01:29:48   that's really easy to understand yeah

01:29:50   that's the Kurt Cobain model of like of

01:29:52   ya know obviously I mean I think I think

01:29:55   it's like that's not my nature right to

01:29:59   be like I said it it's in the lyrics

01:30:01   like no no no I want to discuss it

01:30:04   I've thought about I've thought about

01:30:09   writing down like a like a like a line

01:30:16   by line exegesis of my song lyrics I

01:30:21   just don't know who that audience would

01:30:23   be I wish you wouldn't know know just

01:30:26   because I mean you know I don't know I

01:30:28   mean like I like it not being known well

01:30:34   let me turn around a little bit so well

01:30:36   you you do you try to have every line

01:30:37   tell everything is in there for a reason

01:30:39   everything it's in the song is in the

01:30:40   song do you feel like there are romaine

01:30:44   mysteries and unknowns in songs to you

01:30:46   like if something as general as like oh

01:30:48   I'm not really sure who that was about

01:30:49   or like I'm not really sure what this

01:30:51   song is saying like your song is very

01:30:53   much even if I don't always understand

01:30:55   the POV I know they have a POV like it's

01:30:57   it's there's somebody somebody's in a

01:31:00   situation and a lot of the songs but

01:31:02   like ours you feel like there are still

01:31:04   unknown corners of your own stuff that

01:31:05   you would you would benefit from having

01:31:06   people for lack of a better word

01:31:08   explained to you oh oh they all I mean

01:31:11   every song I

01:31:13   there's the exegesis would not be me

01:31:17   explaining them as much as me saying

01:31:25   here are the possibilities is this a lot

01:31:28   I guess is is more is more my

01:31:34   relationship to them because they are

01:31:36   because they are point of view based

01:31:38   rather than theirs you know it's not

01:31:43   like this is a song about about John F

01:31:46   Kennedy but I but I changed his name or

01:31:49   whatever you know that they're all about

01:31:50   everything I don't know I I I just

01:31:56   worked so hard on them and and I feel

01:31:58   like I feel like they're often just it's

01:32:03   the problem I guess of any writer where

01:32:06   you put it up against other pop music

01:32:10   and some pop music and again Missa pop

01:32:13   music I love isn't really about anything

01:32:16   and yet I'm also working in that

01:32:21   vernacular so I mean I was listening to

01:32:24   toboni em last night as you do and you

01:32:30   know boney m has a song called daddy

01:32:34   cool and it has three lyrics I don't

01:32:39   think anybody M song has more than about

01:32:41   15 lyrics boney em yeah but you know

01:32:47   like for instance my my good pals in the

01:32:49   band Band of Horses who have that song I

01:32:52   think I've referred to before where the

01:32:54   lyric is

01:32:57   when I was alone is there a ghost in my

01:33:00   house when I was alone is there a ghost

01:33:04   in my house and it's a it's a hell of a

01:33:08   line it conveyed a lot to me but that's

01:33:13   kind of the main lyric in the song I'm

01:33:17   sorry it's like one of a very few lyrics

01:33:20   in the song and it's a more popular song

01:33:27   than any song I ever wrote but it

01:33:34   doesn't have any it's not it's not even

01:33:38   like that

01:33:41   like the two songs are not like let's

01:33:44   take that song and any song I wrote

01:33:46   there's no there's no lyrical

01:33:49   commonality in terms of intent yeah

01:33:55   right the lyrics of his song and it's

01:33:57   great because if you google the lyrics

01:33:59   of is there a ghost by Band of Horses

01:34:00   there's a whole lyric sheet it's really

01:34:03   long and it says I could sleep I could

01:34:07   sleep I could sleep I could sleep when I

01:34:09   lived alone as there are ghosts in my

01:34:10   house I could sleep I could sleep I

01:34:11   could sleep I can sleep and that's

01:34:13   that's those are the only lyrics in the

01:34:15   tune and so so it's like I don't know

01:34:20   who-who was I writing for I guess you

01:34:32   write in terms of like when you were

01:34:35   composing songs yeah like who like

01:34:43   listening to the lyrics of John

01:34:44   Darnielle songs it is it's baked into it

01:34:47   because the songs are so lyric driven

01:34:51   there's not a lot of keyboard parts

01:34:53   there's not a lot of he doesn't

01:34:55   quadruple the harmonies on the chorus is

01:34:57   it so yeah he's got a boom box and the

01:34:59   old days there yeah you're there to

01:35:00   listen to the lyrics it's it's like

01:35:02   Billy Bragg its folk music

01:35:05   um I mean you know a lot of songs that I

01:35:08   like I don't even know I know what John

01:35:12   you Chandra you call it but like they're

01:35:14   they whether it's the Beatles or you or

01:35:18   whomever I like a song that has a sense

01:35:21   of urgency to it and it doesn't have to

01:35:23   be urgency in terms of necessarily being

01:35:25   up beating high-energy or whatever or

01:35:27   super sad but like but a lot of the

01:35:30   songs I like and remember and and think

01:35:34   about there's something there's

01:35:38   something some message of some kind

01:35:40   there's some feeling even that has to be

01:35:42   put across like there's I like you know

01:35:45   I've got to tell if they see in acting

01:35:47   like you know the one of the basic

01:35:48   things to tell you and acting is that

01:35:50   like remember everybody on stage at a

01:35:53   given time wants something right they

01:35:55   and maybe there's other things to it

01:35:56   maybe there's their secrets that they

01:35:58   have that they don't want people to know

01:35:59   but there's something that everybody

01:36:00   wants out of a scene like if you if

01:36:02   you're not sure what to do with the

01:36:03   character think about what it is not

01:36:04   just quote-unquote motivation but like

01:36:06   what is the most important to that

01:36:08   person in the room what are they trying

01:36:09   to hide what are they trying to show how

01:36:11   are they are they trying to deceive but

01:36:13   like everybody up there wants something

01:36:15   and how if you as an actor you have to

01:36:16   connect with what that feeling is and I

01:36:18   feel like a lot of songs UPS is in to

01:36:19   derail but I feel like in terms of like

01:36:21   who it's for I'm not always sure but

01:36:23   like you know there's just there's

01:36:24   something I've got to tell you and this

01:36:26   this is how I'm doing it to somebody

01:36:28   even if it's an imagined person yeah for

01:36:32   the Beatles a lot of the early stuff was

01:36:33   that they're just disappointed in women

01:36:35   I had a kid go back and listen to a lot

01:36:37   of early and middle Beatles which I

01:36:38   loved but I was realizing how many songs

01:36:41   I want to say just John songs but Paul

01:36:42   song was so many of John songs in

01:36:44   particular are just about like how

01:36:46   misunderstood he is by women but he's be

01:36:48   puts it really well but you know I mean

01:36:51   something like I want even something as

01:36:53   simple seemingly simple as I want to

01:36:54   hold your hand like there's obviously an

01:36:56   extreme sense of urgency to that yeah in

01:36:59   that case you know who's being addressed

01:37:00   in that but sure but when are you

01:37:02   talking about who you write the songs in

01:37:04   order to reach as an audience or like

01:37:06   who the song is addressing oh no I mean

01:37:09   this my songs are all addressing the

01:37:11   same people that John Lennon's songs

01:37:13   were addressing I was just a little bit

01:37:16   older when I was writing them so it

01:37:18   wasn't quite not what yeah I mean there

01:37:23   it was all the same confusion just just

01:37:25   like quadrupled by an extra decade of

01:37:29   feeling confused but no it's like it's a

01:37:38   you know I I have a desire still to be I

01:37:43   mean we all have a desire to be

01:37:45   appreciated appreciate her to be heard

01:37:49   well I'm not so worried about being

01:37:51   heard you know what I mean like I if if

01:37:55   I if I go into the great sleep if I go

01:37:59   gently into that good night and don't

01:38:02   feel like my cowl my Yelp was was

01:38:08   registered you know whatever it's not

01:38:11   it's not I don't feel under heard but

01:38:18   but no like like when you do when you

01:38:24   try to do something with subtlety and I

01:38:26   think this is a this is a lot of the a

01:38:29   lot of times a problem for anybody

01:38:31   working in any medium if you try to do

01:38:34   something with subtlety and then you see

01:38:37   things that are done unsubtle II succeed

01:38:41   and you feel like oh you know I like

01:38:45   worked really hard to make this opaque

01:38:49   and then somebody comes along it's just

01:38:53   like shake it shake it yeah people are

01:38:55   yeah I want to shake it and you're like

01:38:57   fuck just tearing their shirt open and

01:38:58   waving them around yeah you're like shit

01:39:00   you know like who is my audience if not

01:39:05   everybody if if I'm not just like shake

01:39:08   it if I'm like super super like making

01:39:12   all these tiny little beads when you

01:39:16   when you do it your dream is that you're

01:39:19   gonna be reaching the same people that

01:39:21   you're gonna be reaching people like

01:39:23   yourself who are looking for that in

01:39:25   other stuff like I'm trying to

01:39:28   accomplish

01:39:29   that's like the kefir for a lock I

01:39:31   didn't know I had right right Oh exactly

01:39:34   that exactly that but then I think about

01:39:37   it it's like oh when I could finally

01:39:39   understand Michael stipes lyrics I was

01:39:41   really disappointed it was a lot better

01:39:44   when he when you couldn't tell what he

01:39:46   was saying and I what I wanted to be was

01:39:51   I wanted to be as I wanted to create the

01:39:54   feeling that Michael Stipe created in me

01:39:56   except when you got into it you found

01:39:59   there was something there instead of

01:40:01   just you know like nothing or or partial

01:40:07   whatever it was that he was like it

01:40:10   suddenly just happened to be like a

01:40:11   beautiful splatter pattern yeah I mean

01:40:14   he was obviously creating a super

01:40:17   appealing vignettes yeah yeah but also

01:40:19   yeah it was very I always I've talked

01:40:21   about this ad nauseam in so many places

01:40:23   but you know the ability to create a

01:40:25   mood yeah and a feeling a very poetic

01:40:27   way where like the sound of the words

01:40:30   like when you said before like a picket

01:40:32   or a wire don't worry pick it or a wire

01:40:33   uh-huh it's also that like think about

01:40:35   those two words how the contrast can

01:40:37   sound like one's kind of sharp and one's

01:40:39   a little bit more round and like that's

01:40:40   that's why we like Dylan Thomas is like

01:40:43   as the words the way the words sound is

01:40:45   part of the meaning and like there's

01:40:47   meaning under the meaning but then

01:40:48   there's also meaning in the sounds and

01:40:49   people get different things from that

01:40:51   but like you know like you were you were

01:40:54   just quoting do not go channel but you

01:40:55   know the force of through the green fuse

01:40:57   like there's just these these things

01:40:58   that he says and you're like that's just

01:41:00   a bunch of words but it's very

01:41:01   meaningful the way those words sound and

01:41:02   yeah and it's nice when you dig in a

01:41:04   little further and go like oh there's

01:41:06   also there's a pattern to how to the

01:41:08   syllables there's a pattern to the to

01:41:09   the rhymes but you don't have to know

01:41:11   any of that to feel strangely

01:41:12   emotionally moved by something even if

01:41:14   you don't understand everything in a

01:41:16   shakespeare monologue like you're still

01:41:18   gonna get some kind of a feeling out of

01:41:19   it do you remember when you first got

01:41:22   into pavement mm-hmm

01:41:24   did you were you into pavement very and

01:41:28   those I was summer babe was my first

01:41:31   favorite pavement song the effect of

01:41:34   pavement in terms of creating a mood and

01:41:41   also being full of

01:41:43   information and also being and also

01:41:46   seeming to be full of maybe more

01:41:48   information than was actually there

01:41:50   mm-hmm

01:41:50   you know like the pavement was such a

01:41:53   they were so sincere but also just

01:41:55   mostly smarmy it's like so smarmy but

01:41:58   there was something really poignant

01:41:59   about American life in their songs yep

01:42:03   and and really smart turns of phrase but

01:42:06   also just thrown off like in a way that

01:42:09   that suggested like either that they

01:42:13   didn't care or that half the guys in the

01:42:15   band didn't understand what half the

01:42:16   other with the other half of my guys

01:42:17   were talking about but it didn't matter

01:42:19   I mean there was so much going on in

01:42:22   that that influenced me I don't think

01:42:25   anybody in Seattle wants to acknowledge

01:42:27   what an influence pavement was because

01:42:29   we were making our own thing up here

01:42:31   you're not so it's like it's like you're

01:42:32   not supposed to be into something that's

01:42:34   that cheeky right but it was it you know

01:42:39   it's very influential because it feels

01:42:42   impossible to duplicate in a way like

01:42:45   Weezer feels very easy to duplicate you

01:42:50   need that much exceed sis but like

01:42:52   here's one I was dressed for success but

01:42:53   success it never comes and I'm the only

01:42:55   one who laughs at your jokes when they

01:42:57   are so bad they get to the chorus and

01:42:58   all the sterols striking it defends an

01:43:00   empty dock you cast away and reign upon

01:43:02   your forehead where the mists for hire

01:43:04   if it's just too clear let's spend our

01:43:06   last quarter stance randomly go down to

01:43:08   the outlet once again that's in the way

01:43:11   you know painted portraits of minions

01:43:13   and slaves crotch mavens in one night

01:43:15   plays and they're the only ones who

01:43:16   laugh at your jokes when they are so bad

01:43:18   and the jokes are always bad come join

01:43:20   us in a prayer will be waiting waiting

01:43:21   where everything's ending here that's

01:43:23   named a song here but it's very

01:43:26   portentous when you listen to it's very

01:43:28   the tempo and everything it's you know

01:43:31   for one of their early I guess maybe

01:43:33   they got cheekier as they went but like

01:43:35   a little silly but like I always found

01:43:37   that song very moving I don't know what

01:43:39   the song is about but I always found it

01:43:40   very moving it's the same it's the same

01:43:43   with a lot of Nirvana where you're like

01:43:45   what the what the hell are you talking

01:43:49   about but but it's it conveys it's very

01:43:54   like

01:43:55   the atmosphere is appropriate like the

01:43:59   atmosphere communicates and the lyrical

01:44:01   atmosphere communicates what you want it

01:44:03   to it's not just yeah this is your seven

01:44:05   sided lighthouse made of dreams to get

01:44:07   all of that stuff together I mean you

01:44:09   know for the lyrics to be meaningful

01:44:10   that a lot of people go into a song in

01:44:11   their lyrics people we had a whole

01:44:12   episode of the show I do with Syracuse

01:44:14   about this where we talked about your

01:44:15   music alot but like there's this whole

01:44:17   thing of like diving straight into what

01:44:18   the lyrics mean but like to me there's a

01:44:20   whole like giant play going on here

01:44:23   there's the set dressing and there's the

01:44:24   characters and there's like there's so

01:44:26   much going on and like this little

01:44:28   little spots about what's said and

01:44:30   what's not said there's so much to it

01:44:31   that goes beyond just like what did the

01:44:33   lyrics mean like there's a whole

01:44:34   evocation that can be happening in a

01:44:37   song that even plays against the lyrics

01:44:40   I mean it's you know I don't know I I

01:44:42   like music well I know I'm me too and I

01:44:46   and I just I wonder sometimes I wonder

01:44:48   whether podcasting with you and being

01:44:51   and writing articles and stuff whether

01:44:54   it it did something it took away some of

01:44:58   the universe building that I had within

01:45:01   the songs just in that I had expressed a

01:45:06   view point in the in those albums and I

01:45:10   was so desperate to be to like be

01:45:14   interviewed and to be able to explain

01:45:16   not the worldview of the songs because I

01:45:19   felt like that's that that was fine you

01:45:21   know like I'm not I don't need to go in

01:45:22   back into the songs but I want to talk

01:45:25   about all this other stuff too and as

01:45:28   time goes on like does it detract from

01:45:31   the from the universe from the from the

01:45:37   Game of Thrones universe if if george RR

01:45:41   martin is out there also talking about

01:45:42   how he feels about vending machines and

01:45:45   so forth but I mean he can't can't put

01:45:54   the podcast back in the bottle no

01:45:56   bottles in the bottle to put the genie

01:45:59   back in the vending machine

01:46:01   what the fuck it can't be known