The Incomparable

127: Walking and Talking


00:00:06   the incomparable number 127 februari [TS]

00:00:11   2013 I am Dan Morrison him for Jason [TS]

00:00:15   Snell our usual host and today we're [TS]

00:00:18   here to talk about the many works of [TS]

00:00:21   aaron sorkin i'm joined by an all-star [TS]

00:00:24   panel i think we did this joke yesterday [TS]

00:00:27   when are they going to be using the pic [TS]

00:00:29   they keep not showing up and I go with [TS]

00:00:31   you guys we keep on missing my lights we [TS]

00:00:33   have to my state is a state right you [TS]

00:00:36   know this that stage right to my stage [TS]

00:00:38   right serenity Caldwell [TS]

00:00:40   hello folks Lex Friedman who doesn't [TS]

00:00:42   know anything about Aaron Sorkin has [TS]

00:00:43   never seen any of these shows tennis [TS]

00:00:45   balls i have seen everything areas we [TS]

00:00:47   only invited the light shows when you [TS]

00:00:48   haven't actually seen thing I don't [TS]

00:00:50   belong here that I've seen in general [TS]

00:00:53   Carlson a special guest [TS]

00:00:54   I am very excited to talk about any [TS]

00:00:56   Sorkin check out the state you're done [TS]

00:01:00   okay and a a very ill plaguey danfore [TS]

00:01:06   takes who's gonna take a little longer [TS]

00:01:07   contagious but you don't want to use [TS]

00:01:09   this so he says don't get too closely [TS]

00:01:11   don't don't use like you have yeah [TS]

00:01:14   there's a reason we're all sitting far [TS]

00:01:15   away i want to be off the stage but that [TS]

00:01:18   was it was next [TS]

00:01:20   your theme so far as everybody get off [TS]

00:01:21   the stage yeah I know I I really just [TS]

00:01:23   wanted to me up here and then and then [TS]

00:01:26   is to be the best podcast ever Jeff and [TS]

00:01:28   I thought we should have opened this [TS]

00:01:30   podcast with like us walking in through [TS]

00:01:32   a few doors and having gld we have a [TS]

00:01:34   procedure having a religion for this [TS]

00:01:36   really should all be walking we could [TS]

00:01:37   walk during this can be just me there's [TS]

00:01:39   only this must be 20 people here they [TS]

00:01:40   just follow us around [TS]

00:01:41   I mean if we're gonna do we're working I [TS]

00:01:43   mean yeah no absolutely [TS]

00:01:45   i I didn't write any dialogue i don't [TS]

00:01:47   know about you guys but they're my [TS]

00:01:49   writing with a dialogue that starts off [TS]

00:01:51   here now we really need witty dialogue [TS]

00:01:53   sweet deals worried i was working with a [TS]

00:01:55   guy like that [TS]

00:01:56   we have to start using a lot of [TS]

00:01:57   statistics right away Michael [TS]

00:01:58   eighty-seven percent of podcasts that [TS]

00:02:00   try to use with the dialogue find [TS]

00:02:02   seventy percent of the time they're [TS]

00:02:03   unsuccessful of those efforts i'm really [TS]

00:02:05   hoping that that the john bolton sitting [TS]

00:02:08   back there will hold up a sign saying [TS]

00:02:09   America is a terrible country and then [TS]

00:02:11   yeah okay thanks that's good that's good [TS]

00:02:13   and I'm going on to the sharpie [TS]

00:02:15   uh yeah so as we moved you were talking [TS]

00:02:17   about Aaron Sorkin of course who is the [TS]

00:02:18   scribe behind many a TV show in movie [TS]

00:02:21   and play is play right as well as early [TS]

00:02:24   career started out I think I think he [TS]

00:02:27   started out in theatres and then moved [TS]

00:02:29   to keep the film is earliest films [TS]

00:02:31   include malice and alec baldwin in favor [TS]

00:02:34   call about a doctor that's what he's [TS]

00:02:36   really gone back to that one kind of [TS]

00:02:38   moved on but then we have a few good men [TS]

00:02:40   which of course i think was his first [TS]

00:02:41   really big hit started to play right [TS]

00:02:44   with indeed an American president which [TS]

00:02:48   is the west wing season 0 i like to call [TS]

00:02:51   it right it's creepy to watch the [TS]

00:02:53   American president because you're why is [TS]

00:02:54   the president helping up you lazy the [TS]

00:02:56   chief of staff and why is the president [TS]

00:02:57   Leo right this is weird and you know you [TS]

00:03:01   got to Nancy McNally's isn't doing her [TS]

00:03:03   job [TS]

00:03:04   it's crazy Josh Malina doesn't have that [TS]

00:03:06   many lines it's really strange that you [TS]

00:03:08   get and then he comes back in the shows [TS]

00:03:09   a different person later and yeah it's [TS]

00:03:11   very confusing mom got it like so the [TS]

00:03:14   best raise ever click an assistant and [TS]

00:03:17   guess what now you're gonna be the [TS]

00:03:18   president so what what were your entries [TS]

00:03:23   into circuit like what was the first [TS]

00:03:24   thing that you sell by him [TS]

00:03:26   well I didn't realize he was aaron [TS]

00:03:28   sorkin when I was so if you admit the [TS]

00:03:30   fact that he really until last week that [TS]

00:03:32   oh yeah how is aaron sorkin you couldn't [TS]

00:03:33   handle the truth is where exactly I [TS]

00:03:35   always thought it was an American [TS]

00:03:36   president was my entry in there and [TS]

00:03:38   circle but i guess it was a few good men [TS]

00:03:39   damn morning tell me what are your [TS]

00:03:42   thoughts on you [TS]

00:03:43   this is a setup because Lex knows i [TS]

00:03:46   haven't seen you good [TS]

00:03:48   david hasn't we wouldn't it is one of [TS]

00:03:51   only two things that I haven't seen [TS]

00:03:53   Byron circuit analysis have not seen [TS]

00:03:55   malice excuse boom haven't seen anything [TS]

00:03:57   past what was that you're in 1995 [TS]

00:03:58   haven't seen anything earlier than 1995 [TS]

00:04:00   business has been waiting for like two [TS]

00:04:02   years to have a panel about some reason [TS]

00:04:04   you see the damn war is not you know i [TS]

00:04:06   might wish i had watched it last night [TS]

00:04:08   just to set you up to attend my first [TS]

00:04:11   aaron sorkin movie was the American [TS]

00:04:13   president I saw a few good many years [TS]

00:04:14   later as is my habit but I mean I love [TS]

00:04:18   the American president and interestingly [TS]

00:04:20   enough my wife loves the American [TS]

00:04:23   president to that's one of our three or [TS]

00:04:25   four go to movies we can't think of [TS]

00:04:27   anything else to watch we'll just watch [TS]

00:04:28   that again but she never got into the [TS]

00:04:30   West Wing where I feel like they I mean [TS]

00:04:32   clearly one is much romance comedy or [TS]

00:04:34   the other but I feel like they're still [TS]

00:04:36   very similar it's unusual to me to like [TS]

00:04:38   one and not the other without what you [TS]

00:04:40   get Jeff also i would say probably a few [TS]

00:04:46   good man but again also and not knowing [TS]

00:04:48   that it was aaron sorkin that I think [TS]

00:04:50   for me that getting into the the the [TS]

00:04:53   knowledge that there was an aaron sorkin [TS]

00:04:55   would be the late and beloved sports [TS]

00:04:57   night [TS]

00:04:58   yes when was the best series one of the [TS]

00:05:00   best areas in and there one that really [TS]

00:05:03   had like a strange start because i think [TS]

00:05:05   that was like the first dramedy think [TS]

00:05:08   that's when they it was one of the first [TS]

00:05:10   way that term right it had it had it was [TS]

00:05:13   set up as a 30-minute sitcom very much [TS]

00:05:16   like you know formulaic but it was [TS]

00:05:19   strange because they did they had this [TS]

00:05:21   whole issue with the laugh track where [TS]

00:05:22   the first half of the first season has a [TS]

00:05:25   lap track it gets quieter get why you're [TS]

00:05:27   in choir and it's not because the show [TS]

00:05:28   gets less and less funny the show [TS]

00:05:30   actually gets funnier but it's strange [TS]

00:05:32   because you get a I feel like that was [TS]

00:05:34   part of the reason behind why didn't [TS]

00:05:35   catch on as much because it was on it [TS]

00:05:38   was unconventional at that point and [TS]

00:05:40   interestingly with that laugh track it [TS]

00:05:41   doesn't just get quieter it gets more [TS]

00:05:43   and more infrequently and spars and so [TS]

00:05:45   it's a startling when you hear it and [TS]

00:05:47   with the initially released the DVD [TS]

00:05:48   series they have the laugh track their [TS]

00:05:51   fans complaining they never wanted that [TS]

00:05:52   left right there the first place if you [TS]

00:05:53   buy the DVD set now you'll get it [TS]

00:05:55   laugh track if that's ok we have the [TS]

00:05:57   horrible one with the laugh track yeah i [TS]

00:05:59   think that one but I went upgrade yeah I [TS]

00:06:01   don't know the laugh track to me always [TS]

00:06:03   remind me all the left some really [TS]

00:06:05   nervous and it sounds like they've [TS]

00:06:06   suddenly they've laughed luck walk [TS]

00:06:08   somebody there like laughs damn it left [TS]

00:06:10   this room love this room doesn't have [TS]

00:06:12   left I getting that maybe they're gone [TS]

00:06:14   sure whether or not they're supposed to [TS]

00:06:15   laugh haha well it also had that [TS]

00:06:18   definite feeling of somebody not the [TS]

00:06:20   writers not but not the directors like [TS]

00:06:22   somebody in a board room somewhere was [TS]

00:06:24   like well this is this is a comedy so we [TS]

00:06:26   need to impose this laugh track because [TS]

00:06:28   i don't think any of the the creator's [TS]

00:06:30   wanted it that was like like like [TS]

00:06:32   something from up on my hands anything [TS]

00:06:34   typical studio decisions have white [TS]

00:06:36   community rather than me but I said how [TS]

00:06:39   many 30-minute shows at that point did [TS]

00:06:42   not have a laugh track i mean you're [TS]

00:06:44   talking about primes sitcom time but [TS]

00:06:47   there's something about it that when you [TS]

00:06:48   watch friends at that [TS]

00:06:50   I more or Seinfeld and you heard the [TS]

00:06:52   last track it just you didn't really [TS]

00:06:54   notice it was there but when you watch [TS]

00:06:56   sports night for some reason it is glare [TS]

00:06:58   it's very grading right it was also [TS]

00:06:59   right you're like I don't know if it was [TS]

00:07:01   the first but it was you know a very [TS]

00:07:02   early single-camera comedy single-camera [TS]

00:07:04   comedy [TS]

00:07:05   yeah it was you know it felt very [TS]

00:07:07   different from other television [TS]

00:07:09   alright we're going now become kind of [TS]

00:07:10   like the standard in a lot of cases [TS]

00:07:13   we've got more and more shows that are [TS]

00:07:14   that single-camera comedy that doesn't [TS]

00:07:16   have a studio audience doesn't have a [TS]

00:07:17   laugh track the late great limited 30 [TS]

00:07:19   rock which just ended and number yet so [TS]

00:07:23   I I think he kind of pioneered that but [TS]

00:07:25   in some ways would be television [TS]

00:07:27   audience wasn't quite ready for that [TS]

00:07:28   that level of something that was not [TS]

00:07:30   just about punchline punchline punchline [TS]

00:07:32   ypc didn't really know how to market it [TS]

00:07:35   i mean they were putting it very much i [TS]

00:07:36   remember seeing the original marketing [TS]

00:07:38   with my knees [TS]

00:07:40   it's 99 yeah I'm 92 that they also it's [TS]

00:07:44   in the middle there because there's an [TS]

00:07:45   episode in the second season with a deal [TS]

00:07:47   with y2k that's right we got up [TS]

00:07:49   yes bright yellow you know bright yellow [TS]

00:07:52   papers and everybody's happy and jumping [TS]

00:07:55   up in the air they fell prey to the fact [TS]

00:07:57   that was actually the marketing for all [TS]

00:07:58   of ABC's programs that year that was [TS]

00:08:01   there stick and it didn't want were [TS]

00:08:04   yellow [TS]

00:08:05   that you know the knock that I here [TS]

00:08:07   against Aaron Sorkin in general for [TS]

00:08:09   people who for whatever reason don't [TS]

00:08:11   like sports night as a good example bad [TS]

00:08:13   people you're right that the challenge [TS]

00:08:15   that happens there i think is that on [TS]

00:08:17   sports night as well on the west wing [TS]

00:08:19   and every other TV show that he's done [TS]

00:08:20   these are characters who take their jobs [TS]

00:08:22   very seriously and on sports let you [TS]

00:08:24   know that the concedes that they're your [TS]

00:08:26   seat watching backstage the makings of a [TS]

00:08:28   SportsCenter style show which too many [TS]

00:08:30   of us i think is probably not the most [TS]

00:08:32   important work one can do / is her [TS]

00:08:34   country but they take it very seriously [TS]

00:08:37   you know when something goes wrong this [TS]

00:08:39   is it's it's extremely high personally [TS]

00:08:41   taking drama for the the characters [TS]

00:08:43   involved on the show and you know on the [TS]

00:08:46   west wing when they're so upset and [TS]

00:08:48   unhappy because you know people are [TS]

00:08:50   shooting at each other in encouragement [TS]

00:08:53   understand that's that there's a reason [TS]

00:08:54   for them to be so upset because you know [TS]

00:08:56   there's death involved but when i was [TS]

00:08:57   learning to understand and he [TS]

00:08:58   accidentally said you understand yeah [TS]

00:09:00   and then and and sports night when [TS]

00:09:03   they're really concerned because maybe [TS]

00:09:05   the game isn't gonna end in time so they [TS]

00:09:07   have to start their broadcast late [TS]

00:09:09   the stakes are very high to them and [TS]

00:09:12   less hi to the audience that i really [TS]

00:09:14   like to show I love sports night but the [TS]

00:09:16   people who I've heard complain about [TS]

00:09:17   that show feel like why are they taking [TS]

00:09:19   this so seriously why are they so so [TS]

00:09:21   concerned I think it's a fair and at the [TS]

00:09:23   same thing happens on studio 60 and and [TS]

00:09:25   someone in the newsroom right that one [TS]

00:09:27   yeah a little closer to exact way I know [TS]

00:09:30   I feel like that is very much true to [TS]

00:09:32   life though because God knows I mean as [TS]

00:09:35   technology journalists we've had plenty [TS]

00:09:37   of times where I has an aaron sorkin a [TS]

00:09:39   show about us [TS]

00:09:40   ah [TS]

00:09:41   will get cancelled after half a season [TS]

00:09:43   sadly but I mean we have plenty of days [TS]

00:09:45   when we're running around with our heads [TS]

00:09:48   cut off being like oh god we've got to [TS]

00:09:49   get this in or else everything will go [TS]

00:09:51   down in flames I think a live load of [TS]

00:09:53   trash people don't yet know about the [TS]

00:09:54   new I books but it's it feels like life [TS]

00:09:57   or death at that point and no it's [TS]

00:09:59   definitely not have not getting shot [TS]

00:10:01   having been in the room when all of our [TS]

00:10:03   like why blog coverage crashed it was [TS]

00:10:05   just like we're sitting area that's an [TS]

00:10:07   apple presentation like God so I am it [TS]

00:10:12   is very seriously the people involved [TS]

00:10:14   with professionals is what they do and [TS]

00:10:16   anybody makes it more convincingly and i [TS]

00:10:17   think i was going to take slight [TS]

00:10:19   exception to your comment about the west [TS]

00:10:21   wing vs force night because i feel like [TS]

00:10:23   in later seasons which obviously aren't [TS]

00:10:26   directly aaron sorkin reading seasons [TS]

00:10:28   this is where the law comes in which is [TS]

00:10:30   they think they can make up for the fact [TS]

00:10:31   that it's you know there are problems by [TS]

00:10:34   making them these huge dramatic problems [TS]

00:10:36   like these india and china on the brink [TS]

00:10:38   of war but it doesn't work because it [TS]

00:10:40   has no substance behind it there's no [TS]

00:10:42   subtext or anything it's all just the [TS]

00:10:44   over-the-top that's really annoying haha [TS]

00:10:48   hello but that's expected of me off that [TS]

00:10:53   sorry well I also think that that so [TS]

00:10:56   some of what sports and I did I mean you [TS]

00:10:57   know yet that the the the the words are [TS]

00:11:02   escaping me the topics were sort of you [TS]

00:11:05   know like like small and contained it [TS]

00:11:07   behind the show but they also like [TS]

00:11:10   really tried to push into some other [TS]

00:11:11   things like I remember some storylines [TS]

00:11:13   about we weren't there like a drug [TS]

00:11:16   testing scandal or something that they [TS]

00:11:20   had to report on and they had to you [TS]

00:11:22   know like like do we reveal this [TS]

00:11:24   information or not reveal this [TS]

00:11:25   information and you know for for [TS]

00:11:27   something that was a you know a comedy [TS]

00:11:29   it seemed like he was sort of pushing a [TS]

00:11:33   agendas or you know pushing thoughts [TS]

00:11:35   which I'm sure will probably talk about [TS]

00:11:36   seems to be a short aspect of pushing [TS]

00:11:40   point of view but it seemed like it was [TS]

00:11:43   it was trying to push the boundary there [TS]

00:11:44   even though yeah this is about it a [TS]

00:11:46   sports show right and then you know [TS]

00:11:48   trying to get this little episode they [TS]

00:11:49   deal with a bomb threat [TS]

00:11:51   someone wants to blow up the building [TS]

00:11:52   because some radio host makes it and you [TS]

00:11:54   know insensitive comment I would someone [TS]

00:11:56   want to kill us [TS]

00:11:57   well I mean all of his big TV shows have [TS]

00:12:01   been this is behind the scenes of what [TS]

00:12:04   this business does right [TS]

00:12:06   whether it's the west wing or its sports [TS]

00:12:08   night or two tvs news station or it's a [TS]

00:12:10   studio it's always this is the [TS]

00:12:12   nitty-gritty behind-the-scenes the [TS]

00:12:14   people who do what you see the front of [TS]

00:12:16   them and and I was less interested in [TS]

00:12:19   studio 60 because i didn't really care [TS]

00:12:21   about night clubs but I love sports [TS]

00:12:23   center and so I found ambassador even [TS]

00:12:25   though it wasn't sportscenter it was [TS]

00:12:27   supposed to be right there and I thought [TS]

00:12:28   that was fascinating because of the [TS]

00:12:30   topic and i will and i like i like [TS]

00:12:32   politics policy and politics into the [TS]

00:12:34   West Wing got to me but I do agree that [TS]

00:12:37   I think like if you're not into sports [TS]

00:12:39   center demographic sports night kinda [TS]

00:12:41   was like why do I care about this [TS]

00:12:42   between their i8 I don't fall sports [TS]

00:12:44   almost at all and i'm not really a [TS]

00:12:46   sports fan I don't watch SportsCenter i [TS]

00:12:48   love the wild switch your and aaron [TS]

00:12:49   sorkin finding you'll watch because [TS]

00:12:51   you're so I didn't even know at the time [TS]

00:12:52   I mean that was that and west wing which [TS]

00:12:54   started around the same time I think [TS]

00:12:56   sports i was slightly earlier and then [TS]

00:12:58   season when he was doing bullet once per [TS]

00:13:01   season over web and so I didn't know [TS]

00:13:04   until I start watching both of these [TS]

00:13:05   with this was the same guy [TS]

00:13:07   it was for me was the characters in the [TS]

00:13:08   writing and as someone especially [TS]

00:13:10   someone who's a writer I just I really [TS]

00:13:12   admire his dialogue is great and pacing [TS]

00:13:14   he's got great you know [TS]

00:13:17   masterful dialogue these various witty [TS]

00:13:20   banter things about the infuriating [TS]

00:13:21   thing to me about Aaron Sorkin's talent [TS]

00:13:23   since i don't have it is you know he [TS]

00:13:27   it's not [TS]

00:13:29   first of all I think it's impressive [TS]

00:13:30   that he can whether it's accurate [TS]

00:13:32   accurately depicted or not he makes it [TS]

00:13:34   feel like he knows exactly what it's [TS]

00:13:35   like backstage and sports center or by [TS]

00:13:38   the scenes in the white house or in a [TS]

00:13:39   newsroom like it feels like he's done [TS]

00:13:41   his research with the possible exception [TS]

00:13:43   of studio 60 and then when you later on [TS]

00:13:48   that it's not just his characters [TS]

00:13:49   dialogue his character soft like many of [TS]

00:13:50   us wish we were able to speak [TS]

00:13:52   extemporaneously and oftentimes can take [TS]

00:13:56   out some of the believability i don't [TS]

00:13:57   think most people have as many [TS]

00:13:58   statistics and factories that their [TS]

00:14:00   instant recall as the characters are [TS]

00:14:01   sort of show but I enjoy that [TS]

00:14:02   fictionalization anyway but it's the way [TS]

00:14:05   he crafted his storytelling that I find [TS]

00:14:07   very impressive you look at especially [TS]

00:14:09   you know you can tell when Sorkin stops [TS]

00:14:12   reading The West Wing when he leaves the [TS]

00:14:13   show [TS]

00:14:14   everybody's IQ on that show drops by [TS]

00:14:16   about 50 points in the drama becomes [TS]

00:14:18   totally different than what well because [TS]

00:14:19   they make it about [TS]

00:14:20   thank you don't want drama is conflict [TS]

00:14:21   right so we need to make everybody angry [TS]

00:14:24   at each other right and that you'll [TS]

00:14:25   notice that just joshin related because [TS]

00:14:27   the total jerk people just yelling at [TS]

00:14:28   each other all want Leo was always angry [TS]

00:14:31   ya know if there's never any common [TS]

00:14:32   ground or any reconciliation part of it [TS]

00:14:34   that sort of makes you feel like oh well [TS]

00:14:37   these guys at the end of the day are [TS]

00:14:38   still friends even if they're going [TS]

00:14:39   through this tough spot right now but [TS]

00:14:42   the way he crashed his actual story [TS]

00:14:44   telling where there's so many times when [TS]

00:14:45   he the the narrative marks about with [TS]

00:14:48   time even on the show like the Western [TS]

00:14:51   sportswear you'll see the story told [TS]

00:14:52   slightly out of order or you'll see the [TS]

00:14:55   same part of the storytelling from two [TS]

00:14:57   perspectives the the only writer i think [TS]

00:14:59   can achieve that on his level is is [TS]

00:15:01   Matthew leader with madmen who [TS]

00:15:03   occasionally does some of the same [TS]

00:15:04   trillion you get he is of course I mean [TS]

00:15:07   we often see the standard construction [TS]

00:15:09   of a TV show where you've got you know [TS]

00:15:11   you're a plot which is your main thing [TS]

00:15:13   going on you got a subplot sometimes [TS]

00:15:15   they tied together but I think in circus [TS]

00:15:16   shows that they almost always end up in [TS]

00:15:18   some way interleaving in a way that you [TS]

00:15:20   don't expect like Seinfeld [TS]

00:15:22   just like Seinfeld it's been pretty much [TS]

00:15:25   the same it's like the Jerry Seinfeld [TS]

00:15:27   president united states that's the [TS]

00:15:29   darkest timeline Dan but now do you I [TS]

00:15:33   mean I know exactly what my Chiefs or [TS]

00:15:36   complaint is but I i I'm curious since [TS]

00:15:38   it's clearly that this is becoming a [TS]

00:15:40   sort of lovin [TS]

00:15:41   what are our issues with sort of what [TS]

00:15:44   don't you like so i'll say that won the [TS]

00:15:48   West Wing was out i was at when I first [TS]

00:15:50   came out I was not in technology was [TS]

00:15:52   actually public policy analyst and to [TS]

00:15:54   see a TV show where they were smart [TS]

00:15:56   people talking about policy and people [TS]

00:15:58   knew what they were talking about it was [TS]

00:15:59   like this is awesome but I went back and [TS]

00:16:01   I've been what are you watching it and [TS]

00:16:03   I'm like man this is preachy [TS]

00:16:05   I mean wow I still love the west wing I [TS]

00:16:07   think it's one of the best TV shows but [TS]

00:16:09   it's very preachy and not not that it's [TS]

00:16:11   a bad way or are in a bad way or a bad [TS]

00:16:13   thing but it's very like she thinks [TS]

00:16:16   everybody just doesn't get it and he [TS]

00:16:17   wants to teach them and I think that [TS]

00:16:20   that's one of his flaws sometimes it [TS]

00:16:22   goes a little too overboard at trying to [TS]

00:16:24   say you don't know this you need to know [TS]

00:16:27   this and I'm gonna tell you for the next [TS]

00:16:28   hour and I'm and so I think that great a [TS]

00:16:31   lot of people i think that's one other [TS]

00:16:32   thing that some people don't like Sorkin [TS]

00:16:35   poor is that sort of storytelling i [TS]

00:16:38   think that that his his construction is [TS]

00:16:42   it's sort of a memorable and frustrating [TS]

00:16:45   sometimes because you'll have things [TS]

00:16:46   where you know you definitely have [TS]

00:16:48   things that they're building up to [TS]

00:16:49   something and then which is good and it [TS]

00:16:53   was it like really good technique but [TS]

00:16:55   then you get to that something and you [TS]

00:16:56   realize that oh this is basically like [TS]

00:16:58   like the thing that I wish that I had [TS]

00:17:01   said when someone says something mean to [TS]

00:17:02   me and they're like really like that [TS]

00:17:05   three hours later out like this is what [TS]

00:17:07   I would have said if i was there goes [TS]

00:17:08   your text or called when the jerk store [TS]

00:17:12   that's how I felt [TS]

00:17:13   hey go I i actually did not watch [TS]

00:17:15   seinfeld sorry this isn't about side [TS]

00:17:17   flex [TS]

00:17:18   I've seen happy to get your ex is all [TS]

00:17:21   about tvs are absolutely right because [TS]

00:17:22   that's what i was thinking about when we [TS]

00:17:24   first said we were gonna talk about [TS]

00:17:26   Aaron Sorkin here i thought well that's [TS]

00:17:27   the best way for me to describe his [TS]

00:17:28   dialogue is that sort of the list of [TS]

00:17:30   read escalade which is the I think [TS]

00:17:32   translate the staircase with which is [TS]

00:17:33   like when you're on your way out this [TS]

00:17:34   you think of the things you should have [TS]

00:17:35   said yeah and he does a great job of [TS]

00:17:37   channeling that but yeah it is sometimes [TS]

00:17:40   you're like nobody actually talks like [TS]

00:17:42   that very few people think of all that [TS]

00:17:45   on the spot when you really need it to [TS]

00:17:47   really deliver that that punch of and [TS]

00:17:49   I'm rarely is it to people engaged in a [TS]

00:17:51   single conversation both seem to be [TS]

00:17:52   managing to pull it out this but at the [TS]

00:17:54   same time it's good TV great TV it is i [TS]

00:17:57   feel like it makes you feel like you [TS]

00:18:00   have the power to actually talk like [TS]

00:18:02   that in real life at least watching this [TS]

00:18:04   and also growing up I'd be like alright [TS]

00:18:06   if I just indoctrinate myself into [TS]

00:18:08   enough Amy sherman-palladino and aaron [TS]

00:18:10   sorkin i will eventually be able to talk [TS]

00:18:11   really quickly and Willie and apparently [TS]

00:18:14   no no not so much but when you [TS]

00:18:16   occasionally get that moment it's like [TS]

00:18:18   oh yes yes I could totally be on a show [TS]

00:18:20   for five seconds so it's aspirational TV [TS]

00:18:23   that's very inspirational wit I was [TS]

00:18:25   gonna say that my to address lexus point [TS]

00:18:27   about laws i think and it sort of ties [TS]

00:18:29   into what I think Dan was saying the [TS]

00:18:31   idealism aspect of it which again I [TS]

00:18:33   really admire but he kind of at times [TS]

00:18:37   converge towards the naivete I mean and [TS]

00:18:41   that's not quite the right thing because [TS]

00:18:42   I think he's a smart guy and he knows [TS]

00:18:43   what the problems are [TS]

00:18:45   but the idea that good things will just [TS]

00:18:48   sort of float to the top like there is [TS]

00:18:49   sort of a meritocracy somehow and that [TS]

00:18:52   just by being really pure and [TS]

00:18:54   well-intentioned the truthful shine [TS]

00:18:56   hours which is how I think we don't like [TS]

00:18:58   it to be but what did you think was [TS]

00:19:00   remarkable with the west wing in [TS]

00:19:01   particular my parents make rush limbaugh [TS]

00:19:06   look liberal and they love the west wing [TS]

00:19:09   despite you know it it's clear the [TS]

00:19:11   disagreement with their political [TS]

00:19:13   perspectives and I think what the way he [TS]

00:19:16   can pull that off is that he's he's [TS]

00:19:18   committed to it you know he doesn't [TS]

00:19:19   shower convicted he has a viewpoint that [TS]

00:19:21   he wants to express it [TS]

00:19:22   his characters are all going to be these [TS]

00:19:23   idealistic people [TS]

00:19:25   and you know what was nice as that I [TS]

00:19:27   found at least Arnold Vinick comes it [TS]

00:19:30   that you know season six and seven and [TS]

00:19:31   he's not historical character as a [TS]

00:19:33   Republican that the Liberals who share [TS]

00:19:37   the liberal philosophy is expressed on [TS]

00:19:38   the show can appreciate and like to but [TS]

00:19:41   not every Republican character on the [TS]

00:19:44   sorgan years either was one he would [TS]

00:19:46   vilify know he he took care to make sure [TS]

00:19:48   that even when he had his viewpoint that [TS]

00:19:49   he wasn't there as they hired a man is [TS]

00:19:51   in the handout on it [TS]

00:19:54   rabbi Marc person yeah but what what [TS]

00:19:57   infuriates me with aaron sorkin is his [TS]

00:20:00   seeming embrace of the fact that he [TS]

00:20:02   understands absolutely nothing about [TS]

00:20:05   technology we've been hearing this from [TS]

00:20:07   lex for three days now I I'm furious [TS]

00:20:09   about it i have never stops being [TS]

00:20:11   furious about it likes you mean you've [TS]

00:20:13   never accidentally sent an email to an [TS]

00:20:15   entire company when you only meant to [TS]

00:20:17   send it to one person that's on the [TS]

00:20:19   newsroom and it's it drives the whole [TS]

00:20:22   plot line of an episode I mean clearly [TS]

00:20:23   also on the west wing Josh Lyman hates [TS]

00:20:25   bloggers in the multiple show in modern [TS]

00:20:28   America rot down the entire US [TS]

00:20:30   government email system by 14 spam right [TS]

00:20:33   for the spam messages about muffins [TS]

00:20:35   right about the calorie content of [TS]

00:20:37   muffins there was well I love this one [TS]

00:20:39   episode of the west wing when you re [TS]

00:20:40   watching you just can't believe they're [TS]

00:20:41   in the situation room so it's you know [TS]

00:20:43   theoretically that you know the the [TS]

00:20:45   tech-savvy estate of the texts Abby [TS]

00:20:46   should be in this room they're using all [TS]

00:20:47   sorts of fancy technology to do what [TS]

00:20:50   they do and so they're showing the [TS]

00:20:53   president is photographing why is it so [TS]

00:20:55   blurry why is it why is this picture so [TS]

00:20:56   blurry [TS]

00:20:57   well it was emailed we think using a [TS]

00:21:00   modem [TS]

00:21:01   and III don't know what that's supposed [TS]

00:21:06   to mean [TS]

00:21:07   but it's I mean he hates bloggers he [TS]

00:21:10   hates the internet he hates the web [TS]

00:21:12   he doesn't understand how email works he [TS]

00:21:15   has this whole contrived plot line on on [TS]

00:21:17   the newsroom where you know i-i've you [TS]

00:21:19   have to use a semicolon if you want to [TS]

00:21:21   send an email to everybody on this 2f [TS]

00:21:23   don't use a semicolon is going to one [TS]

00:21:24   person and of course he screws it up and [TS]

00:21:26   we're sending this email to the entire [TS]

00:21:27   staff and it's embarrassing which is we [TS]

00:21:29   just said because you get the feeling [TS]

00:21:30   that if he were you know had people that [TS]

00:21:35   would you know consult on him and really [TS]

00:21:38   that he would listen to that he would [TS]

00:21:40   really be able to write a great story [TS]

00:21:42   about technology and in fact of course [TS]

00:21:44   he has only not only written to movie [TS]

00:21:47   the social network which looks feels and [TS]

00:21:49   technology but he's also writing the [TS]

00:21:51   biopic of steve jobs that is not the one [TS]

00:21:54   with ashton kutcher which is based on i [TS]

00:21:57   believe the loosely based on the walter [TS]

00:21:59   isaacson book but also it's sort of his [TS]

00:22:02   phone supposedly divided up into three [TS]

00:22:03   scenes leading up to product announced [TS]

00:22:05   apple product and i'm going to be three [TS]

00:22:07   real-time moments before he goes on [TS]

00:22:10   stage at various apple keynote for the [TS]

00:22:11   is the original mac yes the ipod and [TS]

00:22:15   iphone is the iphone is I think it's the [TS]

00:22:17   iphone right let's go to believe [TS]

00:22:19   everything the iphone but which which is [TS]

00:22:21   I mean and you can kind of get away with [TS]

00:22:23   that by saying that well apple stuff [TS]

00:22:25   isn't always about the midi gritty parts [TS]

00:22:27   of technology there's more to it than [TS]

00:22:28   that I think that's part of the reason [TS]

00:22:29   that in my mind I liked the social [TS]

00:22:32   network [TS]

00:22:32   I think it succeeded in telling me a [TS]

00:22:35   story that i didn't think i was [TS]

00:22:36   necessarily interested in hearing when i [TS]

00:22:38   first went into it and yet i found it [TS]

00:22:40   compelling and it's not necessarily all [TS]

00:22:43   about programming I mean that plays a [TS]

00:22:46   part in it but it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

00:22:47   really matter [TS]

00:22:48   that's not a thing that matters in the [TS]

00:22:49   grants give it a lot but it you're right [TS]

00:22:52   that he does have a weakness that [TS]

00:22:53   doesn't do you have any interested in [TS]

00:22:55   having interest in learning about it [TS]

00:22:57   more [TS]

00:22:57   I don't know that that you know [TS]

00:22:58   obviously I don't think anyone say that [TS]

00:23:00   undermines the rest of his guru as it [TS]

00:23:02   were but it is definitely flawed is [TS]

00:23:04   ready [TS]

00:23:05   no I think the weird thing is that he [TS]

00:23:06   seems perfectly confident to talk about [TS]

00:23:08   technology fits in [TS]

00:23:09   if the topic itself at hand is [TS]

00:23:11   technology for instance in the shelter [TS]

00:23:13   network and I have no doubt that the [TS]

00:23:15   Steve Jobs movie will be well written [TS]

00:23:17   and well represented but when it when he [TS]

00:23:20   gets the option to use technology at the [TS]

00:23:22   butt of his joke he will gladly take it [TS]

00:23:26   up i mean he he uses a similar scene [TS]

00:23:28   like that in every single one of his [TS]

00:23:30   shows sometimes multiple times to great [TS]

00:23:32   effect [TS]

00:23:33   yeah i think this Lincoln Sports Network [TS]

00:23:35   Casey your dad's gonna throw a computer [TS]

00:23:37   out the window or something like that [TS]

00:23:38   something like that yes and it's just so [TS]

00:23:42   I one of the things that struck me also [TS]

00:23:44   this might be any sort of flopping over [TS]

00:23:46   here again we're not trying to be came [TS]

00:23:47   not to bury aaron sorkin months largely [TS]

00:23:50   to praise him i was a big love in a [TS]

00:23:52   minute ago and now and now it's all gone [TS]

00:23:53   that shirt you're being now walked in [TS]

00:23:56   right now we would kick now look at the [TS]

00:23:59   the he gets knocked for reusing stuff a [TS]

00:24:02   lot which I noticed been rewatching the [TS]

00:24:05   west wing because there's the episode in [TS]

00:24:07   season 7 where Arnie Vinick and Matt [TS]

00:24:10   Santos who are the contestants for the [TS]

00:24:12   presidency are talking about having a [TS]

00:24:14   debate and they go off on this whole [TS]

00:24:16   thing about we need to have a real [TS]

00:24:17   debate not something we're limited just [TS]

00:24:19   30-second sound bites and rebuttals and [TS]

00:24:21   all this and that's brought again in the [TS]

00:24:24   newsroom at the end of the newsroom [TS]

00:24:25   system this season they try to convince [TS]

00:24:27   the the republican national convention [TS]

00:24:29   that we want to have a real debate where [TS]

00:24:32   the candidates are forced to answer [TS]

00:24:33   questions now that's not necessarily [TS]

00:24:35   repeating himself that he says he didn't [TS]

00:24:37   write that season of The West Wing but i [TS]

00:24:39   want to point that out in front of [TS]

00:24:40   everyone that's a fair point [TS]

00:24:41   well and if you sure everybody up here [TS]

00:24:44   seated but then there's a clip out there [TS]

00:24:46   were somebody did a bunch of cuts where [TS]

00:24:48   Aaron Sorkin almost word for word we use [TS]

00:24:51   a whole lot of his stuff it's nine [TS]

00:24:52   minutes worth of cuts in fact i will [TS]

00:24:55   point out like that in fact in the [TS]

00:24:56   season he did right where he goes up [TS]

00:24:58   against partly goes up against James [TS]

00:24:59   Brolin yes i think that the Vinick [TS]

00:25:02   sandals thing is a call back to bad [TS]

00:25:03   agree two hundred percent that do you [TS]

00:25:05   know by the way to soften the one [TS]

00:25:07   episode of the west wing in which Sorkin [TS]

00:25:09   himself appears [TS]

00:25:11   for example the west wing he's in here [TS]

00:25:15   since social network he's in the series [TS]

00:25:17   finale of The West Wing when Santos is [TS]

00:25:20   on the inauguration platform and there's [TS]

00:25:23   a bunch of dignitaries there Mac sitting [TS]

00:25:25   there on the stage as if he's some [TS]

00:25:27   important analytical here appears in the [TS]

00:25:29   social network as a ad exec yes briefly [TS]

00:25:32   and he appeared actually did quite a [TS]

00:25:35   memorable turn on one of his own shows [TS]

00:25:37   but on entourage appears as himself in [TS]

00:25:39   several episodes as a somewhat per [TS]

00:25:42   article version of himself [TS]

00:25:43   what we believe is a problem running [TS]

00:25:45   with the wall and with drugs and stuff [TS]

00:25:47   like that i have mentioned 30 rock but [TS]

00:25:49   he also I he appears on 30 rock as I [TS]

00:25:53   believe himself and yes in a walk and [TS]

00:25:55   talk that's a hilarious [TS]

00:25:57   he has a good sense of humor about [TS]

00:25:59   himself in some aspects it's he's ok [TS]

00:26:02   with you were when it's in parodying [TS]

00:26:05   himself but he seems to be very very [TS]

00:26:07   scared of the bloggers in the you know [TS]

00:26:10   the folks even came [TS]

00:26:12   yeah if he doesn't get a say that it's [TS]

00:26:15   that it's not funny [TS]

00:26:16   we'll be going back to the into the [TS]

00:26:18   issues of like you know like not [TS]

00:26:19   fact-checking the technology or [TS]

00:26:21   something [TS]

00:26:21   I think it also ties in especially [TS]

00:26:23   someone as earlier stuff where is it was [TS]

00:26:25   pretty clear like it like wasn't he also [TS]

00:26:27   the showrunner 44 West weekend sports [TS]

00:26:31   night [TS]

00:26:31   I'm so like like he was the ultimate [TS]

00:26:33   authority and I think they're sometimes [TS]

00:26:36   when he didn't really have people there [TS]

00:26:39   to say you know know or you know maybe [TS]

00:26:42   we should have someone look over this [TS]

00:26:44   and so you have the issue of and I think [TS]

00:26:47   this also comes into the the preaching [TS]

00:26:49   this a little bit we're like this is [TS]

00:26:51   aaron sorkin show its gonna be like this [TS]

00:26:52   and you don't have enough input to kind [TS]

00:26:55   of whatever those things lee famously [TS]

00:26:57   overruled I mean he rewrote i think [TS]

00:27:00   almost every episode of the west wing [TS]

00:27:01   that he was involved in [TS]

00:27:03   yeah because he took that final [TS]

00:27:04   executive sort of pass and said yeah I'm [TS]

00:27:06   going to basically make sure that was [TS]

00:27:08   all of the snob while ago sorry [TS]

00:27:10   well I remember at one point he was [TS]

00:27:12   doing both sports night and west wing [TS]

00:27:13   like he was writing all the scripts for [TS]

00:27:15   both i mean that's that's insane [TS]

00:27:18   so I think he's also doing a lot of [TS]

00:27:19   cocaine too so he was that affected it [TS]

00:27:22   what I like to look at is the the fun [TS]

00:27:24   game to play is who is the sorgan [TS]

00:27:26   facsimile character in Sorkin's writing [TS]

00:27:28   in The West Wing i decided i think it's [TS]

00:27:30   everybody is like Josh right and i think [TS]

00:27:34   that in sports [TS]

00:27:35   I think it's both Casey and Damned and [TS]

00:27:37   then when you get to really get the [TS]

00:27:39   studio 60 we have Matthew Perry's [TS]

00:27:42   character Matt Albie he's clearly he the [TS]

00:27:46   the amazing thing about Matt Albie who [TS]

00:27:49   writes this saturday lifestyle shows [TS]

00:27:51   that he writes every episode himself he [TS]

00:27:53   lays off the writers because they're not [TS]

00:27:54   good enough so he's gonna read [TS]

00:27:55   everyone's health and how does he do [TS]

00:27:57   that how does he work this magic [TS]

00:27:59   how can we accomplish such great writing [TS]

00:28:00   and it's it's really i mean i really [TS]

00:28:03   like Aaron Sorkin I want to be clear but [TS]

00:28:05   I think it's kind of embarrassing when [TS]

00:28:06   you write the character who's clearly [TS]

00:28:07   meant to be you and he is just so [TS]

00:28:09   perfect so you thought it was Josh in [TS]

00:28:12   the West Wing i would have said maybe [TS]

00:28:13   Josh but also Sam you know perfection is [TS]

00:28:16   writer always wanted to get all the [TS]

00:28:18   facts in their wants to educate people [TS]

00:28:20   once touted smart people wants to have [TS]

00:28:22   witnessed my love i think it's all these [TS]

00:28:24   is right because Toby to because we take [TS]

00:28:26   it all so seriously is like he throws [TS]

00:28:28   away his hairy or over again he wants to [TS]

00:28:31   be Sam but he's really Josh we all want [TS]

00:28:35   to be safe I think we all know that he's [TS]

00:28:37   John Hoynes clearly top i think it's [TS]

00:28:43   funny and particularly in the case of [TS]

00:28:44   West Wing that that that it has a [TS]

00:28:48   phenomenon took on such a life of itself [TS]

00:28:50   I mean even even after he left I think [TS]

00:28:52   you know we all would agree that the [TS]

00:28:54   show did suffer sort of a precipitous to [TS]

00:28:56   climb in the next season and is a season [TS]

00:28:59   and a half I think towards the end of [TS]

00:29:00   season six it starts to pick up and I [TS]

00:29:02   think season 7 is actually pretty good [TS]

00:29:03   though it's not as good as [TS]

00:29:05   when he was just a different show it is [TS]

00:29:07   different it's infected two shows is the [TS]

00:29:08   campaign and the homefront the home from [TS]

00:29:11   stuff is really boring for the most part [TS]

00:29:12   the campaign is much better stow which [TS]

00:29:15   is just goes to show you that the part [TS]

00:29:16   they got away from what he was doing the [TS]

00:29:18   more they were able to do their own [TS]

00:29:19   thing and do that well rather than just [TS]

00:29:21   trying to do a bad impression of aaron [TS]

00:29:23   sorkin but it's funny to me that it took [TS]

00:29:24   on a life of its own [TS]

00:29:26   because we're still here in that you [TS]

00:29:28   know you look at the there's Twitter [TS]

00:29:29   accounts for all the West when [TS]

00:29:31   characters including these like really [TS]

00:29:33   really minor characters who only show up [TS]

00:29:35   in a couple episodes like I think like [TS]

00:29:37   how whole works characters like an [TS]

00:29:38   undersecretary of state has a twitter a [TS]

00:29:40   Catholic and for me it was the during [TS]

00:29:43   the election they got a whole bunch of [TS]

00:29:45   the cast back together to do a sort of a [TS]

00:29:47   nonpartisan ad for a judge election who [TS]

00:29:49   is mary mccormack who played Kate Harper [TS]

00:29:52   for anti guess was running sister [TS]

00:29:55   Michigan your sister's sister [TS]

00:29:57   ok but what was impressively obviously [TS]

00:30:01   they want to make them this whole thing [TS]

00:30:02   and it basically reads just like a west [TS]

00:30:04   wing episode even though they don't you [TS]

00:30:07   know that you know really acknowledge [TS]

00:30:08   that back anywhere and it always was one [TS]

00:30:11   of those things that makes me think you [TS]

00:30:12   know don't you want to kind of imagine [TS]

00:30:13   that they just they get together [TS]

00:30:14   sometimes and play west wing like a [TS]

00:30:17   really my head that's you know I have [TS]

00:30:18   the same thing with firefly two words [TS]

00:30:20   like sometimes they just hang out like [TS]

00:30:21   you know pretend they're still on a [TS]

00:30:22   spaceship right but of course they had a [TS]

00:30:26   feeling that some of the other sort of [TS]

00:30:27   movies we didn't talk about you like [TS]

00:30:29   Moneyball really likes money when i read [TS]

00:30:31   the book Moneyball and then saw the [TS]

00:30:32   movie I don't think circuit wrote the [TS]

00:30:34   book [TS]

00:30:37   I you know I like Michael I mean I'm I [TS]

00:30:41   think I like baseball more than you to [TS]

00:30:42   sew and i actually was familiar with [TS]

00:30:44   some of the stuff going into it it's [TS]

00:30:46   it's a weirdly I think we talked about [TS]

00:30:47   this [TS]

00:30:47   it's a weirdly structured movie as is i [TS]

00:30:50   would argue social network is also a [TS]

00:30:51   very particularly structured movie [TS]

00:30:54   well biopics in general on the people [TS]

00:30:57   are still living [TS]

00:30:58   yeah which is the tricky part was saying [TS]

00:31:00   I was compared to do tonight it's like [TS]

00:31:01   Lincoln like okay dies at the end like [TS]

00:31:03   the story's over [TS]

00:31:04   he was you know mark mark zuckerberg [TS]

00:31:06   spoiler until it comes back in hunts [TS]

00:31:08   vampires [TS]

00:31:08   you know I i think that the the issue i [TS]

00:31:14   had with the social network i thought it [TS]

00:31:15   was a good movie but it feels like it [TS]

00:31:17   never really get started there's you [TS]

00:31:20   know there's enjoyable scenes they [TS]

00:31:21   connect well as well plotted i guess but [TS]

00:31:23   it just feels like he and when you watch [TS]

00:31:26   this organ scripted thing you're waiting [TS]

00:31:29   for it was gonna get really heated up [TS]

00:31:30   and intense and it doesn't it's I mean [TS]

00:31:33   the he does a nice job I think of [TS]

00:31:37   depicting those characters and I think [TS]

00:31:38   that not michael cera does a really good [TS]

00:31:40   job in the movie but and I just I feel [TS]

00:31:44   like you're just constantly waiting for [TS]

00:31:45   it to kick into high gear and it doesn't [TS]

00:31:46   I mean it's tepid in places and it's [TS]

00:31:48   definitely probably the calmest Sorkin [TS]

00:31:51   movie that I've ever watched but a lot [TS]

00:31:54   of it does take place sitting so there's [TS]

00:31:55   that every yeah there's a lot of time a [TS]

00:31:58   XXX I mean in reality circles best [TS]

00:32:02   opportunity is when he has two [TS]

00:32:04   characters bouncing off of each other [TS]

00:32:06   one on wasn't enough walking there was [TS]

00:32:08   not enough 142 meeting and exhausted [TS]

00:32:11   walking that's gross working today [TS]

00:32:12   I mean there's there's some of the [TS]

00:32:14   deposition stuff that's really biting [TS]

00:32:15   and really sparkling like oh yeah that's [TS]

00:32:18   that's the aaron sorkin that I know and [TS]

00:32:20   love at the same time I really enjoyed [TS]

00:32:24   the film uh but it's i agree with you [TS]

00:32:27   that it's not necessarily representative [TS]

00:32:29   of what an aaron sorkin movie can be [TS]

00:32:31   that actually brings up the question of [TS]

00:32:33   like should an aaron sorkin movie be an [TS]

00:32:35   aaron sorkin movie I mean if its parents [TS]

00:32:38   like joint if you will [TS]

00:32:40   no I will not but oh ok well I'm you [TS]

00:32:44   know like like it if we go to a movie [TS]

00:32:46   and it doesn't have like you know some [TS]

00:32:48   real big whitney lead-up and and [TS]

00:32:50   something like that like is that a [TS]

00:32:52   downer or does that mean that he's [TS]

00:32:53   actually getting better i mean i think [TS]

00:32:56   part of it is he's been so consistent [TS]

00:32:58   with the email he sort of like his [TS]

00:33:00   Sorkin repertory players and his Sorkin [TS]

00:33:03   repertory plot themes because he had so [TS]

00:33:06   consistently return to the same well you [TS]

00:33:07   know he's gonna cast Josh Malina just [TS]

00:33:09   about everything and he's going to have [TS]

00:33:10   high stakes in many things or people are [TS]

00:33:13   going to treat their things like the [TS]

00:33:14   high-stakes whether norms think they are [TS]

00:33:17   not and I think that because he's going [TS]

00:33:19   to that well sometimes so many times and [TS]

00:33:21   done it quite a definitely in ways that [TS]

00:33:23   entertain us [TS]

00:33:24   yes I wanted to keep doing those things [TS]

00:33:25   that's what i want to see when i go to [TS]

00:33:27   sort of movie I don't want to see in a [TS]

00:33:28   Quentin Tarantino movie or Steven [TS]

00:33:30   Spielberg movie want to go to see it's [TS]

00:33:32   working i want to feel like arizona and [TS]

00:33:34   i was in some ways I know his background [TS]

00:33:36   comes from theater and he started in [TS]

00:33:37   movies but I feel like he does a better [TS]

00:33:39   job with the TV stuff where he has a [TS]

00:33:41   larger canvas and there is this ability [TS]

00:33:43   to do continuity and sort of string [TS]

00:33:45   things out plot arcs to develop over the [TS]

00:33:47   course of the season as opposed to [TS]

00:33:48   having a cram it in a couple hours I to [TS]

00:33:51   me that seems a better mix tape for him [TS]

00:33:53   like you know he can yeah he's a French [TS]

00:33:55   word therefore it [TS]

00:33:56   yeah I just feel like that's I've seen [TS]

00:34:00   you know most of his later movies also [TS]

00:34:01   charlie wilson's war which is has again [TS]

00:34:04   enjoyable movie moments but it's it is [TS]

00:34:06   kind of strung together strangely it [TS]

00:34:08   doesn't necessarily feel like oh my god [TS]

00:34:11   that's a great movie in one that i want [TS]

00:34:13   to keep you know watch over and over [TS]

00:34:14   again I thought once in a kind of faded [TS]

00:34:16   memory but I know his shows all go back [TS]

00:34:19   to and revisit time after time except [TS]

00:34:22   studio 6a can get back everyone you know [TS]

00:34:24   i rewatch studio 69 is introducing i do [TS]

00:34:28   defense did musics all enemies foreign [TS]

00:34:30   and domestic yes you know what there's a [TS]

00:34:32   lot of it that certain did not get right [TS]

00:34:35   in terms of how backstage actually runs [TS]

00:34:38   but that said I think there are a lot of [TS]

00:34:40   great moments in that and also i love [TS]

00:34:43   bradley whitford i love seeing him on [TS]

00:34:44   stage and I think Danny Tripp is one of [TS]

00:34:46   his best circuit like I love Josh but I [TS]

00:34:49   almost think i prefer Danny trip to John [TS]

00:34:51   I can't believe this is happening right [TS]

00:34:53   now yeah I character that show was was [TS]

00:34:56   who's the kids in the hall bet who shows [TS]

00:34:58   up in mark McKinney yes mark McKinney [TS]

00:35:00   shows up as the writer the really really [TS]

00:35:02   depressed right now because my great [TS]

00:35:03   character in that show [TS]

00:35:04   that's a great example of how sore can [TS]

00:35:06   you can use multiple episodes to build [TS]

00:35:09   up a character I mean when they get into [TS]

00:35:11   character sit down and have a [TS]

00:35:12   conversation in a circus show [TS]

00:35:13   it's not there never talking about the [TS]

00:35:15   topic at hand [TS]

00:35:16   it's always circuitous in there they end [TS]

00:35:18   up talking about something completely [TS]

00:35:19   different and it's kind of hard to do [TS]

00:35:21   that in a film you know you can't you [TS]

00:35:23   can't really talk around the subject for [TS]

00:35:26   two hours unless you're Steven Spielberg [TS]

00:35:28   in your writing Lincoln because Lincoln [TS]

00:35:29   you know has the you have the background [TS]

00:35:31   to have him give these big parking [TS]

00:35:33   speeches and bon mot said they didn't [TS]

00:35:36   have to tell the story because we all [TS]

00:35:37   knew it yeah exactly [TS]

00:35:38   but when you're trying to do a biopic [TS]

00:35:40   when you're trying to do something like [TS]

00:35:41   that so I mean it will be really really [TS]

00:35:44   interesting to see if he can tackle [TS]

00:35:47   something like the Steve Jobs move for [TS]

00:35:48   instance I almost like the idea of doing [TS]

00:35:50   a really long scenes we've seen what [TS]

00:35:52   happens when circuit short scenes in a [TS]

00:35:54   movie where he has to do a lot of setup [TS]

00:35:56   and as you don't get a lot of [TS]

00:35:57   back-and-forth I think my objection to I [TS]

00:36:00   like studio 60 I don't love it i think [TS]

00:36:02   my objection is that he first of all I [TS]

00:36:04   don't think he really got forgets how to [TS]

00:36:07   write sketch-comedy I know you and I [TS]

00:36:08   have disagreed about this but some of [TS]

00:36:10   the sketches that supposed to be the [TS]

00:36:11   most hilarious are really really not [TS]

00:36:13   know I agree with you that doesn't mean [TS]

00:36:15   it's not a funny show and I think it's [TS]

00:36:17   impossible to go out and say you know [TS]

00:36:18   this is the show that is the funniest [TS]

00:36:20   show that everybody loves like that kind [TS]

00:36:21   of build up you just write your story so [TS]

00:36:23   that then so I feel like he he gets [TS]

00:36:26   afraid very early on in the scripting of [TS]

00:36:28   that show and moves away from what it [TS]

00:36:31   set out to be and then you get the very [TS]

00:36:33   broad characters John Goodman character [TS]

00:36:35   jonathan is so great on the west wing [TS]

00:36:37   and then just so brought in bizarre as [TS]

00:36:39   that judge on the on the studio 60 and [TS]

00:36:42   then he sort of gets a little bit [TS]

00:36:43   self-referential we're talking about [TS]

00:36:45   we've got a boost ratings we should do [TS]

00:36:46   things like have pregnancies and have [TS]

00:36:48   people get locked you know it we should [TS]

00:36:51   do you know where they locked in a room [TS]

00:36:52   and then hey Amanda piece character gets [TS]

00:36:53   pregnant and then they're locked on the [TS]

00:36:55   roof in that same episode we're talking [TS]

00:36:56   about it gets a little bit less bizarre [TS]

00:36:59   preferential yeah i mean i do think and [TS]

00:37:01   I think that [TS]

00:37:02   some of that the newsroom suffers from [TS]

00:37:04   also i want to talk about the news right [TS]

00:37:07   yeah i know that you don't like the news [TS]

00:37:08   i actually you like it i think it took a [TS]

00:37:10   while i think it took a while to develop [TS]

00:37:11   and get to a place where I really liked [TS]

00:37:14   it and was in favor of the characters [TS]

00:37:16   because there are so many characters I [TS]

00:37:17   cho who do you start off as unlikable um [TS]

00:37:20   and I kind of it as the season [TS]

00:37:22   progressed I found that I liked [TS]

00:37:23   will the jeff daniels character more and [TS]

00:37:26   more [TS]

00:37:26   he reminds me and in the later episodes [TS]

00:37:28   he starts to remind me more of like Toby [TS]

00:37:30   the wedding or he's just he's cranky but [TS]

00:37:33   he's like underneath it's because he's [TS]

00:37:34   so frustrated with the back that all [TS]

00:37:36   this stuff has never worked out so I [TS]

00:37:38   like the newsroom but i think it i don't [TS]

00:37:40   like the women on the newsroom I think [TS]

00:37:42   they're I i think that circuit has been [TS]

00:37:44   attacked someone fairly simple as for [TS]

00:37:45   not writing women well and I think that [TS]

00:37:47   is a fair critique on the newsroom I do [TS]

00:37:51   want to say that when you spend Wilson [TS]

00:37:52   will McAvoy I don't think there's a [TS]

00:37:55   single and i challenge anyone to find me [TS]

00:37:57   I don't think there's a single rider out [TS]

00:37:58   there with better character naming shops [TS]

00:38:00   in Arizona will McAvoy Toby Ziegler exam [TS]

00:38:04   seaboard nationalized he does do a good [TS]

00:38:06   job Josiah Bartlet come on down [TS]

00:38:09   they feel very real at the same time [TS]

00:38:10   very elevated Beatrice yeah [TS]

00:38:13   Zuckerberg who would have thought yeah [TS]

00:38:15   Zuckerberg come on [TS]

00:38:16   yes circuited women was something that I [TS]

00:38:18   kind of wanted to talk about but I'm [TS]

00:38:20   always wary about it because I do feel [TS]

00:38:23   that circle gets an unjust rep for the [TS]

00:38:25   amount of oh he doesn't treat women he [TS]

00:38:28   doesn't write women while he writes them [TS]

00:38:29   as crazy but not manic pixie dream real [TS]

00:38:32   crazy just crazy out of their mind and [TS]

00:38:35   there are some characters i agree with [TS]

00:38:38   but this witness's character on newsroom [TS]

00:38:42   her mom which one [TS]

00:38:44   la Mer Mac Mac yeah alright so Mackenzie [TS]

00:38:48   is a little bit crazy but at the same [TS]

00:38:50   time someone who clearly has PTSD who's [TS]

00:38:54   been in overseas for the last three four [TS]

00:38:57   years it is coming back and adjusting to [TS]

00:38:59   real like there's a lot about her [TS]

00:39:01   character that rings true and I think [TS]

00:39:03   she's overwritten at parts but at the [TS]

00:39:05   same time i get i get really frustrated [TS]

00:39:07   reading articles online that's like as a [TS]

00:39:10   woman you should feel ashamed of the way [TS]

00:39:12   that Aaron Sorkin rights women [TS]

00:39:14   and I'm like you know I last there well [TS]

00:39:17   no I mean I i have my problems away with [TS]

00:39:19   wearing certain television yeah exactly [TS]

00:39:22   you know I mean I'm not saying that [TS]

00:39:24   Aaron Sorkin deserves a gold star and a [TS]

00:39:26   10 out of 10 on the way he portrays [TS]

00:39:28   women but he certainly doesn't a whole [TS]

00:39:30   lot better and a whole lot more [TS]

00:39:31   realistically been a lot of other [TS]

00:39:33   writers too and I and I i hate to do [TS]

00:39:35   this but we are actually running up [TS]

00:39:37   against hard time limit right now we're [TS]

00:39:39   so used to having an hour and a half to [TS]

00:39:41   two hours to talk about the subject to [TS]

00:39:43   death and then have recently 25 minute [TS]

00:39:45   time slot so I'm asking anyone will [TS]

00:39:47   leave us with a favorite Sorkin wine or [TS]

00:39:50   moment [TS]

00:39:51   dam breaks get one no no I hate yeah [TS]

00:39:55   you're going to spot on to yeah yeah i [TS]

00:39:59   can only carry on a tradition i need to [TS]

00:40:03   do some cleaning [TS]

00:40:04   I i worked with josh Molina's sister [TS]

00:40:06   that there has to be some glaring in [TS]

00:40:09   everything that's been comfortable party [TS]

00:40:11   started flying over perhaps we should [TS]

00:40:13   explain going to the assembled audience [TS]

00:40:15   I don't think we've got a child sorry we [TS]

00:40:17   don't have time we go to the [TS]

00:40:19   incomparable com there's a there's a 127 [TS]

00:40:22   episode archive in which you were [TS]

00:40:23   talking to him about the origins of [TS]

00:40:25   blending and many another thing when [TS]

00:40:27   freshman has been and knows everybody [TS]

00:40:29   so um I i have about 250 favorite west [TS]

00:40:33   wing episodes but the one that came to [TS]

00:40:36   mind when you raise this question here [TS]

00:40:37   is the scene where Jed Bartlet talks [TS]

00:40:40   down the doctor laura style radio host [TS]

00:40:43   who doesnt sit he goes through her whole [TS]

00:40:46   religious opposition to you is a wedding [TS]

00:40:49   at the radio correspond right you know [TS]

00:40:51   white house right and he doesn't stand [TS]

00:40:53   the light at the end of it at the end of [TS]

00:40:54   this teardown we talked about you know [TS]

00:40:55   should I stone my wife because she [TS]

00:40:57   worked on the Sabbath whatever else is [TS]

00:40:58   in this building where the president [TS]

00:41:00   stands nobody sits and then she slowly [TS]

00:41:03   ashamedly has to stand up gotta just [TS]

00:41:05   love that I could watch that over and [TS]

00:41:06   over again when you got a favorite at [TS]

00:41:08   every single moment in sports night I [TS]

00:41:12   really i love i love a lot of sports [TS]

00:41:15   night it is my favorite go to show that [TS]

00:41:17   i just put in so i don't know i was [TS]

00:41:20   Natalie in Jeremy I [TS]

00:41:21   steal my favorite my favorite sports [TS]

00:41:23   night moment which I think of a lot as a [TS]

00:41:24   writer which is an episode where Dan [TS]

00:41:26   decided like has writer's block and [TS]

00:41:29   there's a sexual cases it's not that bad [TS]

00:41:30   let me see what you got the Flyers play [TS]

00:41:33   but yeah the temples tonight in a hockey [TS]

00:41:35   game and they 1423 yeah that fascinates [TS]

00:41:39   for me as a writer because i have days [TS]

00:41:41   like that anyway we're going to wrap up [TS]

00:41:43   here i'd like to thank my panel serenity [TS]

00:41:45   Caldwell Lex Friedman jeff carlson and [TS]

00:41:48   Dan breaks this has been being [TS]

00:41:50   comfortable thanks for coming by and [TS]

00:41:52   we'll see it next week s [TS]

00:42:02   I [TS]