The Incomparable

117: Intergalactic FedEx


00:00:01   the Intolerable number 117 December [TS]

00:00:06   atlantique well welcome back to the [TS]

00:00:09   uncomfortable podcast I'm Jason Snelling [TS]

00:00:10   i'm joined by three fine members of our [TS]

00:00:12   book club [TS]

00:00:14   we're going to talk about the latest in [TS]

00:00:16   the 4 ko's again series of books by lois [TS]

00:00:19   mcmaster bujold which we also talked [TS]

00:00:22   about on a previous podcast called the [TS]

00:00:24   episode title is my word is foreclosed [TS]

00:00:26   again the links in the show notes this [TS]

00:00:28   is the 14th book in the series i believe [TS]

00:00:32   ya so if you haven't read the first 13 [TS]

00:00:35   yeah you might want to tune out at some [TS]

00:00:38   point when we start talking about it [TS]

00:00:40   because well that's interesting that's [TS]

00:00:41   an interesting question what we can talk [TS]

00:00:43   about that that's yes it is interesting [TS]

00:00:45   and that was that voice you heard was [TS]

00:00:46   damn moron who is who is the man who [TS]

00:00:48   introduced me to the four cosine series [TS]

00:00:49   which I've been read 13 books in about [TS]

00:00:51   two months couple years ago I consider [TS]

00:00:54   that a win [TS]

00:00:54   yes thank you very much also joining me [TS]

00:00:56   is Scott McNulty hi Scott [TS]

00:00:58   hello i also blame damn for yes I had [TS]

00:01:02   never heard of this little strange [TS]

00:01:05   character until I met down everything [TS]

00:01:09   coming out more'n and all and the [TS]

00:01:13   laughter that you hear in the background [TS]

00:01:14   directed at Dan of course is it's really [TS]

00:01:18   called well hello hello Jason [TS]

00:01:20   I don't say three yeah i'll answer all [TS]

00:01:23   entirely I've number of friends who will [TS]

00:01:25   also blame me for this [TS]

00:01:26   yeah are we not your friends and your [TS]

00:01:28   friends yeah yeah thanks to introduce [TS]

00:01:31   you guys to this book also my friends I [TS]

00:01:34   mean it's well established this Gotye [TS]

00:01:36   our nemesis not true [TS]

00:01:38   framing sequence and Jason and I are [TS]

00:01:40   friends grandma sees nemesis enemies [TS]

00:01:44   no it's more like pharmacies because [TS]

00:01:46   their nemesis but also friends that's [TS]

00:01:49   good point there really nemesis so so [TS]

00:01:52   we're going to talk about this but this [TS]

00:01:55   is a to book club episodes in the row i [TS]

00:01:57   believe and in our last episode it [TS]

00:01:59   almost a cliffhanger except it was [TS]

00:02:01   edited out so only people who listen to [TS]

00:02:03   the after dark heard it when we last [TS]

00:02:06   left serenity Caldwell she was a [TS]

00:02:07   Disneyland and not on the podcast which [TS]

00:02:09   is a real it's a shameful lack of [TS]

00:02:11   priorities to lead you to know [TS]

00:02:13   I I feel really horrible and I was [TS]

00:02:16   screaming for the for the good three [TS]

00:02:18   minutes while i was on splash mountain [TS]

00:02:19   and you guys couldn't reach me [TS]

00:02:22   yeah it's a shame so we were good we [TS]

00:02:24   were trying to call you from from the [TS]

00:02:27   podcast podcast was calling and we [TS]

00:02:29   really highlights the podcast we almost [TS]

00:02:31   left you a voicemail in fact it's about [TS]

00:02:33   God's back because we're talking about [TS]

00:02:36   what what uh and how we how we read so [TS]

00:02:40   before we talk about about this latest [TS]

00:02:43   for coaching book that's not it's [TS]

00:02:45   actually a for patrol book but it's also [TS]

00:02:47   with 40 second book I thought we would [TS]

00:02:49   touch base because you were an iphone [TS]

00:02:50   reader and and last week when we talked [TS]

00:02:53   we talked a lot about candles and we [TS]

00:02:54   talked about ipads and we talked about [TS]

00:02:57   books made of paper [TS]

00:02:58   mm but we didn't really talk about the [TS]

00:03:01   iphone and and that was why we were [TS]

00:03:02   trying to call you is that you are seem [TS]

00:03:04   to be a dedicated iphone reader can you [TS]

00:03:06   can you explain this to us [TS]

00:03:07   explain yourself please why am i doing [TS]

00:03:11   these things to my eyes you know I'm not [TS]

00:03:12   actually sure how it started [TS]

00:03:15   other than when i got the iphone i was [TS]

00:03:17   pretty much glue to it because it was in [TS]

00:03:20   my pocket and everywhere and I had gone [TS]

00:03:23   through a period of i think four or five [TS]

00:03:25   years where I had just not been reading [TS]

00:03:27   which is in stark contrast to my life [TS]

00:03:31   before then when I basically either [TS]

00:03:33   bought or checked out three books a week [TS]

00:03:35   from the library so during like my [TS]

00:03:37   college in my coast post-college years i [TS]

00:03:39   was reading absolutely nothing because I [TS]

00:03:41   was either going around and you know [TS]

00:03:43   running from place to place so quickly [TS]

00:03:45   or already carrying five or six books [TS]

00:03:47   that I had to read for school that just [TS]

00:03:48   you know i did not have the extra space [TS]

00:03:50   to stick in a paperback or and that [TS]

00:03:53   Kendall's hadn't even been invented at [TS]

00:03:55   that point so I when the kindle first [TS]

00:03:58   came out I gave it a glance and promptly [TS]

00:04:02   ran away cause I'm like the ink is cool [TS]

00:04:05   but there's the keyboard and it's I [TS]

00:04:07   guess it's kind of late but I don't know [TS]

00:04:10   I it was too expensive [TS]

00:04:11   I'd I just wasn't interested first it [TS]

00:04:13   was bad it was yeah yeah I still [TS]

00:04:17   disagree but shame no all right we'll [TS]

00:04:20   talk later Scott yeah [TS]

00:04:22   when the ibookstore came out i bought a [TS]

00:04:28   book or two I think partially because [TS]

00:04:31   being comfortable had started up by that [TS]

00:04:34   point and you guys were reading pretty [TS]

00:04:38   you guys are being pretty frequently at [TS]

00:04:39   the front because we were doing book [TS]

00:04:41   clubs with three books for books at once [TS]

00:04:44   and previous to that I was just going [TS]

00:04:46   into a bookstore and reading the city in [TS]

00:04:48   the city from cover to cover in order to [TS]

00:04:50   try and capture up by know this is a [TS]

00:04:53   library lady I know I know I didn't have [TS]

00:04:57   a library i didn't have a library card [TS]

00:04:59   in the city that I was living because [TS]

00:05:01   I'd only been living there are a few [TS]

00:05:02   months so I i would go into barns and [TS]

00:05:05   not like I went into the barnes and [TS]

00:05:07   noble and I read city to city in seven [TS]

00:05:09   hours something like that i just sat [TS]

00:05:11   down in a chair and occasionally wander [TS]

00:05:13   down and get coffee or something and [TS]

00:05:15   then we'll tea and wonder back up and [TS]

00:05:17   read more i'm going to about things from [TS]

00:05:19   them eventually but they really make [TS]

00:05:21   money on the coffee anyway so yeah okay [TS]

00:05:23   so I mean that was my eyes my book life [TS]

00:05:26   for a long time is when I wasn't reading [TS]

00:05:27   a lot of books i would wander into [TS]

00:05:29   bookstores i would read a couple [TS]

00:05:30   chapters when i worked at the apple [TS]

00:05:32   store on my lunch break i would go into [TS]

00:05:33   borders I'd read two chapters i put the [TS]

00:05:35   book back that I'd go back on my thing [TS]

00:05:37   so when the ibookstore came out [TS]

00:05:40   yeah Shh i I've spent plenty of money at [TS]

00:05:44   that store it goes to borders on to you [TS]

00:05:46   at night [TS]

00:05:46   yes coffee shop at the coffee shop so [TS]

00:05:51   when the ibookstore came out I was a [TS]

00:05:53   little curious but not really super you [TS]

00:05:57   know super interested in and then I [TS]

00:06:00   started downloading books for being [TS]

00:06:02   comparable and actually the first series [TS]

00:06:05   ironically enough the first series that [TS]

00:06:07   i read majorly on the iphone was the [TS]

00:06:10   Vorkosigan saga in that most of the [TS]

00:06:14   books were available as ebooks from [TS]

00:06:16   Baines website and some of them are [TS]

00:06:18   available for free and some of them are [TS]

00:06:19   available via beans web store so i [TS]

00:06:22   basically i think i got the first book [TS]

00:06:25   from dan in paperback format and i read [TS]

00:06:27   that and I wanted to read the second one [TS]

00:06:29   and I didn't either have a car to go out [TS]

00:06:32   to the bookstore or somewhere else so i [TS]

00:06:34   actually went on [TS]

00:06:35   my phone and just downloaded the second [TS]

00:06:37   one from being swept store and then [TS]

00:06:40   proceeded to read the entirety of the [TS]

00:06:41   series on my iphone one little page at a [TS]

00:06:44   time and you would think that it would [TS]

00:06:46   be really really annoying reading on a [TS]

00:06:49   tiny screen and in fact everybody I tell [TS]

00:06:52   that i read long novels on tiny screens [TS]

00:06:55   to uh looks at me like I'm a little [TS]

00:06:57   crazy but I actually really like the [TS]

00:07:01   almost isolation that you get from a [TS]

00:07:05   small screen where you basically have to [TS]

00:07:07   digest it in you have to digest the book [TS]

00:07:09   in small chunks as opposed to a full [TS]

00:07:13   page of paperback text for me because of [TS]

00:07:16   the way i read which I'll get into in a [TS]

00:07:18   second is really intimidating and i [TS]

00:07:21   really like having a smaller screen so [TS]

00:07:23   that i can read more carefully so the [TS]

00:07:28   reason why a full page is a little weird [TS]

00:07:30   is because i read mr. sounds weird I [TS]

00:07:33   read all of the words but I read [TS]

00:07:35   diagonally so when I scan a page with my [TS]

00:07:39   eyes and I'm reading I don't read it I [TS]

00:07:41   don't subvocalize in my head I actually [TS]

00:07:43   I read through about two paragraphs at [TS]

00:07:47   once and my brain for some magical [TS]

00:07:51   reason is able to compose at all those [TS]

00:07:54   words I've seen on the page into the [TS]

00:07:56   appropriate sentences and word pictures [TS]

00:07:58   in my head which I i know sounds really [TS]

00:08:02   weird and sounds like BS but is is the [TS]

00:08:05   clearest way i can approximate how I [TS]

00:08:08   actually read that so so should properly [TS]

00:08:11   composed paragraph for you have the best [TS]

00:08:13   words kind of all on a diagonal line [TS]

00:08:15   through the whole like oh this is a good [TS]

00:08:18   word i'm gonna put this the middle of [TS]

00:08:19   the third line of this paragraph because [TS]

00:08:21   yes exactly it's like i pick and choose [TS]

00:08:23   my words now it's almost like an s-curve [TS]

00:08:25   in a weird ways it's my eyes kind of [TS]

00:08:27   scan because i read so often as a child [TS]

00:08:30   I I don't I'm just hypothesizing at this [TS]

00:08:33   point but i'm able more or less to pick [TS]

00:08:36   out the important words in a paragraph [TS]

00:08:38   that I know will paint the accurate [TS]

00:08:40   picture and it's weird because I don't [TS]

00:08:42   lose any data like I'm not skimming the [TS]

00:08:44   paragraph i can tell you everything that [TS]

00:08:47   happened in that particular sentence [TS]

00:08:49   and if an author has particularly [TS]

00:08:51   interesting verbosity or interesting you [TS]

00:08:54   know phrasing or with i will usually be [TS]

00:08:56   able to quote those specifics phrases [TS]

00:08:59   but more or less it's like it's like [TS]

00:09:02   taking those words and composing a [TS]

00:09:04   picture inside my head rather than some [TS]

00:09:07   vocalizing each and every word [TS]

00:09:09   it's getting the idea of what the scene [TS]

00:09:11   looks like it doesn't work quite the [TS]

00:09:14   same way for dialogue but for any kind [TS]

00:09:16   of paragraph of description that's kind [TS]

00:09:18   of what happens [TS]

00:09:19   wow I you know I I were going to get [TS]

00:09:22   Oliver Sacks on to discuss this with [TS]

00:09:24   this is it seems like a neurological odd [TS]

00:09:27   phenomenon that she's also occasionally [TS]

00:09:29   mistake in her iphone for a hat so the [TS]

00:09:31   table is clearly or a book and a hat the [TS]

00:09:35   so the iphone helps your reading process [TS]

00:09:37   by having fewer words on the page is it [TS]

00:09:40   does that actually help you kind of [TS]

00:09:41   progress as you're reading in a weird [TS]

00:09:43   way is there any other kind miss [TS]

00:09:46   diagonal reader it's um because of the [TS]

00:09:52   the way that my eye scan if the page is [TS]

00:09:54   a full page long my eyes will like I [TS]

00:09:57   will actually digest that entire page at [TS]

00:09:59   once or at least attempt to which will [TS]

00:10:02   usually require me to just either bring [TS]

00:10:04   the book closer to my face or like focus [TS]

00:10:06   on paragraph one paragraph to paragraph [TS]

00:10:09   3 paragraph 4 so having the iphone [TS]

00:10:12   basically limit the size of the page [TS]

00:10:14   means that my eyes can't read ahead by [TS]

00:10:18   accident and try and incorporate that [TS]

00:10:20   part of the story into the previous part [TS]

00:10:22   its yeah I I don't even know how to [TS]

00:10:26   describe it it's like time time-travel [TS]

00:10:28   reading I i read you know i read on my [TS]

00:10:31   iphone some but it's usually only when [TS]

00:10:32   i'm trapped somewhere and there's no [TS]

00:10:33   other I was actually just doing this [TS]

00:10:35   because i was at the doctor's office [TS]

00:10:36   because feeling a little under the [TS]

00:10:38   weather earlier and and all i had was my [TS]

00:10:40   iphone and you know in a situation like [TS]

00:10:43   that I it's perfectly fine to read on I [TS]

00:10:45   just don't think i would read you know a [TS]

00:10:48   thousand-page book just on it I having a [TS]

00:10:51   kindle or an iPad or something like that [TS]

00:10:53   seems seems better but you know it's [TS]

00:10:55   great when you're in those situations [TS]

00:10:56   and you're in the line at Disneyland and [TS]

00:10:58   you can just read a real book you got a [TS]

00:11:00   book with you at all times [TS]

00:11:01   oh yeah i mean i love [TS]

00:11:02   that part and i love i mean the kindle [TS]

00:11:05   has this to a certain extent i love [TS]

00:11:06   being able to finish one book in a [TS]

00:11:08   series and immediately download the next [TS]

00:11:10   book is dangerous [TS]

00:11:12   there's no yes it's gotten me into [TS]

00:11:13   trouble I remember reading the the the [TS]

00:11:17   george RR martin books which some of [TS]

00:11:21   those took me a couple days and then [TS]

00:11:22   also reading I got his name is gonna [TS]

00:11:27   patrick rothfuss series i read the first [TS]

00:11:29   two of those books back to back in about [TS]

00:11:32   13 hours but diagonally so into way I do [TS]

00:11:38   yes it's special attraction two hours [TS]

00:11:41   guys are acting reading that's right [TS]

00:11:42   you're a four-dimensional reader [TS]

00:11:44   essentially yes that's that's probably [TS]

00:11:47   why can you scan the top of the page and [TS]

00:11:49   then the depth is extrapolated sort of [TS]

00:11:52   like by sonar pinging pinging this i [TS]

00:11:56   know i mean i'll ask for other reasons [TS]

00:11:57   than that I like being able to have my [TS]

00:12:00   complete book library on it and i like [TS]

00:12:02   how light it is actually it's it seems [TS]

00:12:05   weird because you know the kindle is [TS]

00:12:07   light and the and the ipad is light but [TS]

00:12:09   they're also bulkier in a in a similar [TS]

00:12:12   way to a paperback book and the iphone [TS]

00:12:15   because it fits so nicely in my hand [TS]

00:12:18   it's something you know if I'm sitting [TS]

00:12:20   on a crowded bus and when i was living [TS]

00:12:21   in San Francisco I did a lot of sitting [TS]

00:12:23   on crowded buses and have a lot you know [TS]

00:12:25   I have my my backpack or my satchel and [TS]

00:12:29   I be wearing a winter coat and like [TS]

00:12:31   taking the time if you're only on the [TS]

00:12:33   bus for 10 minutes five minutes to get a [TS]

00:12:35   book out of your you know out of your [TS]

00:12:37   purse and then by the time you open it [TS]

00:12:39   and if you get involved in the story you [TS]

00:12:41   might lose you know miss your stop if [TS]

00:12:43   I'm on the iphone it's very easy for me [TS]

00:12:45   to like read ten iphone pages look up [TS]

00:12:47   make sure that I you know haven't [TS]

00:12:49   wandered down to the mission go back [TS]

00:12:51   read ten more iphone pages it's a it's [TS]

00:12:54   allows me to get sucked into a book much [TS]

00:12:56   more quickly which I like and it makes [TS]

00:13:00   bed reading so much easier because I can [TS]

00:13:04   you know I don't have to prop anything [TS]

00:13:06   up which is lazy reading I admit you [TS]

00:13:08   know there's something to be said about [TS]

00:13:09   having a physical book in your hand [TS]

00:13:11   but having the having the iphone is just [TS]

00:13:15   so comfortable that i find myself [TS]

00:13:17   reading a lot longer than I normally [TS]

00:13:19   would if i was reading a paperback book [TS]

00:13:22   like normally I'll read for like an hour [TS]

00:13:24   to then put it away then do something [TS]

00:13:25   then come back to reading unless i'm [TS]

00:13:27   completely caught up with the iphone I [TS]

00:13:29   it i become very easily immersed inside [TS]

00:13:33   the book so I'm trying to imagine if we [TS]

00:13:35   had actually gotten you on the phone [TS]

00:13:37   from the podcast while you're in [TS]

00:13:39   Disneyland you trying to explain that [TS]

00:13:41   you read things diagonally while and [TS]

00:13:42   wide for the haunted mansion and your [TS]

00:13:44   stead that would be very confusing so [TS]

00:13:46   I'm glad that we waited and that you [TS]

00:13:48   were able to come on and and add a [TS]

00:13:50   little kota to our how we read them [TS]

00:13:52   because it was sad you couldn't be on [TS]

00:13:53   but you didn't land you know magic [TS]

00:13:55   disneyland the magic kingdom is a [TS]

00:13:57   special place in Star Tours waits for no [TS]

00:13:59   woman yeah there you go you know when I [TS]

00:14:02   did start towards i got like it was all [TS]

00:14:03   frequently it was like let's go to Nobu [TS]

00:14:06   and-and-and like Jar Jar was in it was [TS]

00:14:09   really just did you stand up in the [TS]

00:14:11   middle said no this is not happening i [TS]

00:14:14   was i was going to but it was but you [TS]

00:14:16   know there's ship was shaking so i [TS]

00:14:17   stayed they'd strap yeah you know you [TS]

00:14:20   can do it smart smart yeah but they [TS]

00:14:22   don't step c-3po and because they don't [TS]

00:14:25   care about droids but that we don't [TS]

00:14:27   serve their kind here that there are [TS]

00:14:29   good they're good options and start [TS]

00:14:31   towards you just have to you have to go [TS]

00:14:33   on it multiple times their own unwritten [TS]

00:14:35   rule at this inherently have to go on at [TS]

00:14:36   least three times [TS]

00:14:38   yeah now i only did the one boy it was [TS]

00:14:41   there was charged our that was so set so [TS]

00:14:43   so now you're in the midst of reading i [TS]

00:14:46   should say the the 14th or Costa can [TS]

00:14:49   book but you haven't actually finished [TS]

00:14:50   it right on your iPhone all know I am a [TS]

00:14:53   horrible person I decided to get work [TS]

00:14:56   done and set up my new television rather [TS]

00:14:58   than television television television [TS]

00:15:00   rots rots your brain [TS]

00:15:02   I know in my day television was called [TS]

00:15:04   books are you just had a television so [TS]

00:15:07   you can hook up your iphone to it so you [TS]

00:15:09   can read a lot are masterful television [TS]

00:15:13   reading out god how many inches is it [TS]

00:15:15   diagonally [TS]

00:15:17   oh maybe it is because many inches too [TS]

00:15:23   many inches inches for you old man [TS]

00:15:25   oh so let's hold heyo let's talk about [TS]

00:15:28   captain for patrols Alliance the 14 book [TS]

00:15:33   by in this series by lois mcmaster [TS]

00:15:36   bujold dan more'n one of your favorite [TS]

00:15:39   yes and then we'll get to some point [TS]

00:15:40   where red will say I can't listen to [TS]

00:15:43   this anymore to tap out and she will she [TS]

00:15:45   will flee and we'll say goodbye will [TS]

00:15:47   flee and i will actually go curl up on [TS]

00:15:49   the couch and finish you will find out [TS]

00:15:50   that I've indices I think it's a sad [TS]

00:15:53   it's shame know the zombie I'm by the [TS]

00:15:57   way uh 20 episode 24 the incomparable [TS]

00:16:00   was our Vorkosigan episode so you can [TS]

00:16:03   check that out and i will also point out [TS]

00:16:06   that lois mcmaster bujold listen to that [TS]

00:16:09   episode of the incomparable and her one [TS]

00:16:12   of her one comment that i recall was [TS]

00:16:15   they should let the woman talk more so [TS]

00:16:18   it's really sad that you didn't read the [TS]

00:16:19   whole book because she's gonna listen [TS]

00:16:21   and she's gonna be like one of the cover [TS]

00:16:22   off halfway through I didn't let her [TS]

00:16:24   keep talking plus I'm sorry that was my [TS]

00:16:27   fault i think I i think i emailed it to [TS]

00:16:29   her which I was going over there [TS]

00:16:30   do you mind my fault apparently that's [TS]

00:16:33   sorry everybody [TS]

00:16:34   dan and I went on and on and on about [TS]

00:16:35   how much didn't like miles [TS]

00:16:37   ya know so training training that so [TS]

00:16:41   this is this is the ivan book this is [TS]

00:16:43   not about miles I mean previously we've [TS]

00:16:45   had essentially either miles is the [TS]

00:16:48   central character in these books or [TS]

00:16:50   prior to that it was his mother and [TS]

00:16:52   father right and now we have and then [TS]

00:16:56   there was like there was the ethan of [TS]

00:16:58   athos and and following free which is [TS]

00:17:00   sort of not it's in the same universe [TS]

00:17:02   but basically these books are all about [TS]

00:17:04   miles or miles parents and now we get [TS]

00:17:06   his cousin eivin who has been an this [TS]

00:17:09   basically comic relief character would [TS]

00:17:11   you say kind of notnot we not the first [TS]

00:17:14   time let's note that he is the narrator [TS]

00:17:15   though because he gets a point of view [TS]

00:17:17   in civil campaign sure but like I said [TS]

00:17:19   sort of the primary character right [TS]

00:17:21   right right right but is on the fringes [TS]

00:17:24   for most of the series he is the he is [TS]

00:17:27   the stereotypical character he's [TS]

00:17:29   everything that miles is now [TS]

00:17:31   right he's handsome tall he's debonair [TS]

00:17:33   is tall right yeah and and that [TS]

00:17:35   successful with the ladies right he's [TS]

00:17:37   the foil even though he's not as smart [TS]

00:17:38   as miles is we also know that he's a lot [TS]

00:17:40   smarter than he lets on right right [TS]

00:17:42   because he doesn't he doesn't want to [TS]

00:17:43   get in complex situations he doesn't [TS]

00:17:46   want to get in trouble he doesn't want [TS]

00:17:47   and that's actually the funniest thing [TS]

00:17:49   about Ivan right is that is that miles o [TS]

00:17:51   his approaches him and he rolls his eyes [TS]

00:17:53   and says no don't know don't get me [TS]

00:17:55   involved then of course he's involved [TS]

00:17:57   right [TS]

00:17:58   I i like the idea so I went to a reading [TS]

00:18:01   with Miss bujold she was in cambridge [TS]

00:18:04   and so I went to hear her a couple weeks [TS]

00:18:07   ago read from this book and she made the [TS]

00:18:09   comment at some point that the problem [TS]

00:18:11   is ivan is that ivan is always trying to [TS]

00:18:13   avoid the plot [TS]

00:18:14   yeah and and she's like well you know in [TS]

00:18:16   miles you know you wouldn't want to put [TS]

00:18:18   too much miles because miles away just [TS]

00:18:19   like takeover right you know pushed [TS]

00:18:21   everybody aside and be like all right [TS]

00:18:22   yeah let's bring this on but I thought [TS]

00:18:25   that did the fact that I've been [TS]

00:18:26   avoiding the plot at all costs is one of [TS]

00:18:29   his one of his most charming traits and [TS]

00:18:32   but it makes it difficult to read a book [TS]

00:18:34   with a main character who is trying to [TS]

00:18:36   avoid the plot that he is it if you ask [TS]

00:18:39   i mean it makes it difficult for him [TS]

00:18:40   that's for sure [TS]

00:18:41   that is true and it's kind it's got a [TS]

00:18:43   funny though right that he's too he [TS]

00:18:44   tries to get out of it but he can't get [TS]

00:18:48   out of it right he just can't [TS]

00:18:50   he's kind of hapless yeah i mean let's [TS]

00:18:54   be fair in the in the first couple [TS]

00:18:55   chapters in this book he winds up in a [TS]

00:18:57   fairly compromising position fairly [TS]

00:18:59   quickly [TS]

00:19:00   yeah he hasn't he has a knack for that [TS]

00:19:02   so yeah yeah in this so the this book [TS]

00:19:05   starts and he's on assignment and he's [TS]

00:19:08   he's given by his his friend by early [TS]

00:19:12   friend never seen em nervous perhaps [TS]

00:19:15   friend friend missus msf Ramona's I [TS]

00:19:18   can't say that were you know where it's [TS]

00:19:21   going to be a word now I've decided it's [TS]

00:19:23   going to be a word that Riley says that [TS]

00:19:27   uh I need you to watch this this girl [TS]

00:19:29   who works down at this like mail boxes [TS]

00:19:33   etc UPS store anyway the economy yeah [TS]

00:19:36   lactic fittings [TS]

00:19:38   yes exactly and intergalactic x [TS]

00:19:41   yeah and he says okay sure [TS]

00:19:44   I'm Susan did you might be in danger and [TS]

00:19:47   so he buys it really ugly flower pot and [TS]

00:19:50   takes it even has her ship it two miles [TS]

00:19:53   several planets away at the first time I [TS]

00:19:56   was mentioned in that book because I [TS]

00:19:59   find it very funny that you know yeah [TS]

00:20:01   I'm kind of our our dear friend miles [TS]

00:20:04   remember him he's the main character of [TS]

00:20:06   most of this series we're going to mail [TS]

00:20:08   a really ugly Bosley ya ugly flower pot [TS]

00:20:11   or yeah or virus that's going to be used [TS]

00:20:12   as a flower pot because what else would [TS]

00:20:14   you use it for and and one thing leads [TS]

00:20:16   to another and he uses his skills [TS]

00:20:18   so-called skills at picking up women to [TS]

00:20:20   continually try to pick up this woman [TS]

00:20:22   she's leaving the store and all that and [TS]

00:20:24   then he doubles back because he knows [TS]

00:20:26   her address because he's actually not a [TS]

00:20:27   random a customer and he ends up stunned [TS]

00:20:31   and tied up on a on a chair as this [TS]

00:20:34   woman and her roommate who is blue a [TS]

00:20:38   blue acrobat right detective an [TS]

00:20:42   understatement debates what debate what [TS]

00:20:44   to acrobat / dancer really except sure [TS]

00:20:48   acrobatic dancer if you will slash [TS]

00:20:50   living statue [TS]

00:20:51   yeah did debate what to do with him and [TS]

00:20:54   he ends up you know he's confident as [TS]

00:20:56   always and he ends up saving them and [TS]

00:20:58   and and they end up back at his [TS]

00:21:01   apartment and then the fun begins [TS]

00:21:03   because through a series of wacky events [TS]

00:21:06   he ends up having to marry the woman in [TS]

00:21:09   order to protect her from the local [TS]

00:21:11   authorities so you've heard of the meat [TS]

00:21:14   cute this book actually has the Mary [TS]

00:21:17   cute [TS]

00:21:17   well and and you know in i think which [TS]

00:21:20   which prompts my favorite line from the [TS]

00:21:22   book which is so he's done all of this [TS]

00:21:24   to basically aboard have avoided having [TS]

00:21:26   her deported because in marrying him she [TS]

00:21:29   basically becomes a subject of bar ER [TS]

00:21:31   and thus you know protected to a certain [TS]

00:21:34   extent and so as they're there can you [TS]

00:21:36   know doing the ceremony as the the [TS]

00:21:38   immigration all officials are trying to [TS]

00:21:40   knock down their doors and so just as [TS]

00:21:42   they they burst in and they've conclude [TS]

00:21:45   the ceremony in that the immigration [TS]

00:21:46   officials go to a pretender you get the [TS]

00:21:48   lovely [TS]

00:21:49   unhand lady for patricia i know that i [TS]

00:21:52   know you love that line [TS]

00:21:53   I I thought it was I just I don't know [TS]

00:21:55   it was one of those like day you know [TS]

00:21:57   her books are very often amusing but [TS]

00:21:59   this one you know like a civil campaign [TS]

00:22:02   is something that you know it's much [TS]

00:22:03   more comedic than it yes you know all [TS]

00:22:06   the other ones are you know quite moving [TS]

00:22:08   I mean several of them i laughed out [TS]

00:22:10   loud at several points in this book i [TS]

00:22:12   left at all [TS]

00:22:13   yeah there's a good three chapter [TS]

00:22:15   section and it's all I mean and it's all [TS]

00:22:18   it's all character-based humor for the [TS]

00:22:20   most part right it's because you know [TS]

00:22:21   these people right and you defect that [TS]

00:22:24   they're put in these situations and that [TS]

00:22:27   they react in ways that you know our [TS]

00:22:30   kind of familiar [TS]

00:22:32   you know it's like seeing your best [TS]

00:22:33   friend get into you know a particular [TS]

00:22:35   type of trouble odd-man John's always [TS]

00:22:38   get into that trouble right you know i [TS]

00:22:40   don't like the specific it's like you [TS]

00:22:42   know these people because they're so [TS]

00:22:43   fully fleshed-out characters that [TS]

00:22:45   there's something very amusing in the [TS]

00:22:47   fact that you see them get into these [TS]

00:22:49   situations and knowing you know the fact [TS]

00:22:51   that all the items getting dragged into [TS]

00:22:53   this against his will [TS]

00:22:54   it just comes off very charming so i was [TS]

00:22:58   looking on amazon and there's a book [TS]

00:23:00   list review that that is is positive but [TS]

00:23:05   one of the things that it says I'm [TS]

00:23:06   trying to find it here is is new readers [TS]

00:23:10   can enjoy Ivan story on its own but will [TS]

00:23:13   miss many of the nuances that add depth [TS]

00:23:15   and character and I wanted to ask when [TS]

00:23:17   you've got something that's you know the [TS]

00:23:18   14th book in a series i think the [TS]

00:23:23   strongest thing about it and what struck [TS]

00:23:24   me especially in the first half of this [TS]

00:23:26   book really the part that rim is red is [TS]

00:23:30   is that a lot of it works because these [TS]

00:23:32   are all characters that we know and [TS]

00:23:34   seeing you again and seeing these [TS]

00:23:36   corners of the universe you know filled [TS]

00:23:39   out a little bit and seeing these people [TS]

00:23:41   placed in funny situations works really [TS]

00:23:45   well and i kinda can't conceive of what [TS]

00:23:47   this book would read like if you haven't [TS]

00:23:49   read the 14 books that came before it [TS]

00:23:52   yeah i'm curious about that and I know [TS]

00:23:53   that on her blog lowest posted that [TS]

00:23:57   issue was really curious she had not [TS]

00:23:59   seen a lot of reviews from people who [TS]

00:24:01   had not read this series otherwise and [TS]

00:24:03   she was really curious to know how it [TS]

00:24:05   how it played for someone who had not [TS]

00:24:07   read it and so I i have no idea i mean [TS]

00:24:08   having of course read these books many [TS]

00:24:10   times I would [TS]

00:24:11   really interested to hear if somebody I [TS]

00:24:13   just can't imagine that a lot of people [TS]

00:24:14   are picking it up if they're not already [TS]

00:24:16   fans of the series but I imagine there [TS]

00:24:18   must be some people out there somewhere [TS]

00:24:19   who are court reading it for the first [TS]

00:24:22   time I got can you imagine anybody [TS]

00:24:24   reading this and having makes sense if [TS]

00:24:26   they hadn't read the others [TS]

00:24:27   well I i do know that this is her first [TS]

00:24:30   book that has appeared on the new york [TS]

00:24:32   times bestseller was the expanded list [TS]

00:24:34   so a lot of people are buying it [TS]

00:24:36   I I can i if this was my first entree [TS]

00:24:40   into this universe i don't think i would [TS]

00:24:42   have read the other books only because i [TS]

00:24:45   think i enjoy the book i should say but [TS]

00:24:48   I think it's kind of light and yeah [TS]

00:24:50   there's nothing wrong with having a [TS]

00:24:51   little thin like Ivan I don't know if [TS]

00:24:53   I've been is a character who I would [TS]

00:24:55   care about as a main character if I [TS]

00:24:58   hadn't read all the other books and kind [TS]

00:25:01   of been like oh I mean he's kind of [TS]

00:25:03   funny [TS]

00:25:03   I wonder what he would do in all these [TS]

00:25:04   situations ah so I have that back story [TS]

00:25:08   about him and I know how he's reacting [TS]

00:25:10   and all these other things so i can see [TS]

00:25:12   him in these situations and it makes [TS]

00:25:14   sense but if I were and obviously I [TS]

00:25:16   can't read the other book so i don't [TS]

00:25:18   know if this would actually be the case [TS]

00:25:20   but i have a feeling that this is not [TS]

00:25:23   the best introduction to this series i [TS]

00:25:27   think it's great for the fans and for [TS]

00:25:29   people who have read already because you [TS]

00:25:30   know like you guys said it's like you're [TS]

00:25:32   meeting your friends again and you're [TS]

00:25:33   seeing a different side of these books [TS]

00:25:35   because it's very different than you [TS]

00:25:38   know a miles adventure so that's a very [TS]

00:25:40   interesting take on it but uh yeah I [TS]

00:25:43   think it would [TS]

00:25:44   it's not a great honor first country [TS]

00:25:46   yeah yeah he was nice about ivan is that [TS]

00:25:49   he's he's reluctant and and you know I [TS]

00:25:52   don't know if you could carry on carry [TS]

00:25:53   off a lot of books but i think it's fun [TS]

00:25:55   to compare it to a miles kind of like a [TS]

00:25:59   jumping in and and taking control of the [TS]

00:26:01   situation and instead I've been really [TS]

00:26:03   wants to not be in the situation but uh [TS]

00:26:06   one of the things i always liked about [TS]

00:26:08   the first two books at is that reading [TS]

00:26:12   the first two books that had that had [TS]

00:26:15   miles parents as the main characters is [TS]

00:26:18   now when i read all these other books i [TS]

00:26:20   had this strange perspective of saying [TS]

00:26:23   thinking like I remember [TS]

00:26:24   you kids I'd I knew your parents right i [TS]

00:26:27   remember when when when you know what [TS]

00:26:30   that way back when before you were even [TS]

00:26:31   born and with Ivan I you know it works [TS]

00:26:34   better you're right Scott when because [TS]

00:26:36   we know I fun and we've seen him in [TS]

00:26:38   other situations and then make reference [TS]

00:26:40   to a lot of his situations like when he [TS]

00:26:41   was trapped in the with the rising water [TS]

00:26:43   on Earth and all of that when he was in [TS]

00:26:45   danger but the thing about Ivan that I [TS]

00:26:48   remember the most and it and its [TS]

00:26:49   reference really nicely in here is his [TS]

00:26:52   birth which is at the time is is just [TS]

00:26:55   part of this dramatic scene in Bari are [TS]

00:26:57   I think the second book [TS]

00:26:58   yeah chronologically in the series not [TS]

00:27:01   the second book published because that's [TS]

00:27:02   extra confusing and won the hugo award [TS]

00:27:05   and he's born his his his his father is [TS]

00:27:11   gunned down during this rebellion and [TS]

00:27:14   then his mother gives birth and they [TS]

00:27:16   have to they're fleeing the you know the [TS]

00:27:19   troops basically and its really dramatic [TS]

00:27:21   and it's also very sad because his [TS]

00:27:23   father doesn't make it out and so that [TS]

00:27:26   there's the sad introduction to to Ivan [TS]

00:27:28   and his family too and then he becomes [TS]

00:27:29   kind of a funny character but but [TS]

00:27:31   there's this darkness at the you know [TS]

00:27:33   has his mother is a widow and and and [TS]

00:27:36   that's all part of his story and in this [TS]

00:27:38   book they actually have this ceremony at [TS]

00:27:41   the location where his father was gunned [TS]

00:27:43   down and you see the side his and his [TS]

00:27:45   mother who is kind of a comedic figure [TS]

00:27:47   to UM in most of these books you see her [TS]

00:27:50   having that taking that time about her [TS]

00:27:53   husband who's been dead for 35 years or [TS]

00:27:55   for 40 years and i really like that and [TS]

00:27:58   again i'm not sure that has any payoff [TS]

00:28:00   if you haven't read the other books but [TS]

00:28:01   the power of having read all this [TS]

00:28:04   material and it's having having them go [TS]

00:28:06   back there to that Street it is it is [TS]

00:28:10   really kind of amazing I mean to me it [TS]

00:28:11   shows the power of a book series and how [TS]

00:28:14   they they can multiply in a way that a [TS]

00:28:17   single novel can't like a like a [TS]

00:28:19   long-running TV show or something you [TS]

00:28:20   are comic book series right now it's [TS]

00:28:22   very rewarding to see things that are [TS]

00:28:23   reference to things that happened a [TS]

00:28:25   really long time ago you know and to be [TS]

00:28:28   rewarded for paying attention right you [TS]

00:28:30   know to think oh yeah I remember that [TS]

00:28:32   scene you know that i saw that happen [TS]

00:28:34   yeah there's a plaque on the street [TS]

00:28:36   where that thing that I saw happen [TS]

00:28:38   it's now history and I think there is [TS]

00:28:40   something that is one of the things I [TS]

00:28:41   love the most about these books is that [TS]

00:28:43   there are those little things that make [TS]

00:28:45   it feel like such a fleshed-out world [TS]

00:28:47   because you're seeing these references [TS]

00:28:50   to things that happen and you know it is [TS]

00:28:51   even if it's not as long as that even if [TS]

00:28:54   the time and are you know between the [TS]

00:28:56   actual books is not as long as the [TS]

00:28:58   events that have transpired in them [TS]

00:29:00   it's still also you know there's a lot [TS]

00:29:01   of longevity here I mean that you know [TS]

00:29:02   barrio was published in in 20 years ago [TS]

00:29:05   so you know even even though it's not [TS]

00:29:08   you know as long as it is in the books [TS]

00:29:10   that's still really long time to [TS]

00:29:11   maintain sort of a whole story and the I [TS]

00:29:13   mean the entire world still feels very [TS]

00:29:15   modern in a way or just her her universe [TS]

00:29:19   like you don't you don't go back to Bari [TS]

00:29:21   are and look at four patrols Alliance [TS]

00:29:23   and say oh this material feels really [TS]

00:29:26   dated like it was written 20 years ago [TS]

00:29:28   its it flows very very naturally from [TS]

00:29:32   book to book I don't know if new readers [TS]

00:29:36   will find Ivan's book is a jumping on [TS]

00:29:39   point for the series but I definitely [TS]

00:29:42   think if this is the first book that I [TS]

00:29:44   picked up i would be interested in [TS]

00:29:46   reading more by her it's because she has [TS]

00:29:51   she has such an interesting style even [TS]

00:29:53   with ivan who is admittedly ivan is the [TS]

00:29:55   you know the comic relief in the funny [TS]

00:29:57   character of of the series but her [TS]

00:30:01   ability to shift between viewpoints and [TS]

00:30:05   really nail not only the inner monologue [TS]

00:30:08   of a character and the speaking of a [TS]

00:30:11   character but just the way chapters are [TS]

00:30:14   phrased and even sections of chapters [TS]

00:30:17   are phrase depending on what viewpoint [TS]

00:30:19   there in she has a remarkable knack for [TS]

00:30:21   being able to hammer down very specific [TS]

00:30:25   character types within the within the [TS]

00:30:27   chapters and within the books and so you [TS]

00:30:29   immediately know even before there's a [TS]

00:30:32   he or a she or a thought or you know you [TS]

00:30:36   immediately know who's narrating that [TS]

00:30:38   second that chapter or that section of [TS]

00:30:40   the book because we go back and forth [TS]

00:30:41   between Ivan and his well his friends [TS]

00:30:45   just like what rapidly his wife with tej [TS]

00:30:48   as we say lady for patrolling had [TS]

00:30:51   maybe Border Patrol we're not gonna try [TS]

00:30:54   and pronounce her full name [TS]

00:30:55   no it's a mouthful it's like a lot of [TS]

00:30:57   Ivan for doing it it's long because it's [TS]

00:30:59   jacksonian and also see ganden right so [TS]

00:31:04   it's yeah and also 1001 baby names from [TS]

00:31:08   older something like that something like [TS]

00:31:10   that but it is it is cute because you've [TS]

00:31:13   got the back-and-forth of Ivan [TS]

00:31:14   intelligence uh perspectives even within [TS]

00:31:17   chapters though show move back and forth [TS]

00:31:19   and that's that's part of the finding [TS]

00:31:21   that it's almost Scott you said it was [TS]

00:31:23   light I mean it it's almost like [TS]

00:31:25   watching a Shakespeare comedy in a way [TS]

00:31:28   because it really is it like i said they [TS]

00:31:29   don't meet cute they marry cute but it's [TS]

00:31:31   that same thing right it's like they [TS]

00:31:32   meet and then there's this marriage that [TS]

00:31:34   shouldn't have happened but had to [TS]

00:31:36   happen and then they get to know each [TS]

00:31:37   other and and and it's inside out seeing [TS]

00:31:41   each other from one another's eyes is [TS]

00:31:43   kind of funny seeing bari are from her [TS]

00:31:45   perspective and also the fact that she's [TS]

00:31:48   not a she's not a complete innocent [TS]

00:31:50   because she's part of this family thats [TS]

00:31:51   the in this in this kind of ruthless [TS]

00:31:53   Jackson Hole system where there where [TS]

00:31:59   and and her poor families a real piece [TS]

00:32:01   of work and it's actually kind of [TS]

00:32:02   interesting that she's she's kind of the [TS]

00:32:05   least minneapolis yeah yeah she's sort [TS]

00:32:08   of a rebel in that she doesn't want to [TS]

00:32:09   be as awful as some of the other people [TS]

00:32:12   might be and so it you know it's it's [TS]

00:32:16   it's funny I like I like you know it is [TS]

00:32:18   light because that's why I keep coming [TS]

00:32:19   to the Shakespearean comedy it's like [TS]

00:32:21   you've got this collection of players [TS]

00:32:23   and their families on both sides and the [TS]

00:32:25   family's all have agendas but it's never [TS]

00:32:27   you know too heavy it's it's much more [TS]

00:32:31   the kind of the fun of seeing how they [TS]

00:32:34   all interact and and increasingly bad [TS]

00:32:36   things happen and but there was resolved [TS]

00:32:39   there's not a huge amount of Jeopardy I [TS]

00:32:40   feel there are a couple moments of [TS]

00:32:41   jeopardy but it's much more kind of [TS]

00:32:43   light and and fun and then than anything [TS]

00:32:46   else I think it's funny that you say [TS]

00:32:48   Shakespearean because I was definitely [TS]

00:32:49   getting a strong taming of the shrew [TS]

00:32:52   five in places when I was first starting [TS]

00:32:54   to read the book while in and civil [TS]

00:32:57   campaign is also extremely comedy of [TS]

00:32:59   errors like yeah you know if there's a [TS]

00:33:02   whole sort of element there you know [TS]

00:33:04   slap sticky misunderstandings and you [TS]

00:33:08   know double entendre is in that kind of [TS]

00:33:11   stuff so you know there's clearly [TS]

00:33:12   there's clearly a homage to that sort of [TS]

00:33:15   that sort of storytelling right so let's [TS]

00:33:19   say I don't know how to proceed from [TS]

00:33:21   here because ryan hasn't read the rest [TS]

00:33:22   of the book and has read it and we have [TS]

00:33:25   half of it yet [TS]

00:33:28   yes so I I stopped reading so i'll just [TS]

00:33:32   give you that in advance i stopped [TS]

00:33:34   reading right as they're arriving on [TS]

00:33:36   Bari are all right so we can talk about [TS]

00:33:39   anything before then yeah I assume so I [TS]

00:33:41   mean barrios a fairly quiet plan suffice [TS]

00:33:44   it to say that they visit where is [TS]

00:33:45   father was killed I've given that away [TS]

00:33:46   now but still it's nice yeah [TS]

00:33:49   yes I'm sure it is it's a lovely street [TS]

00:33:51   that there's a plaque so lovely [TS]

00:33:54   streetwear death and murder once happy [TS]

00:33:56   yes even ivan was born in like a [TS]

00:33:58   warehouse nearby so yeah I is today Ivan [TS]

00:34:01   one of the things I really enjoyed in [TS]

00:34:03   this book was getting the you get the [TS]

00:34:06   you get a look at what Ivan does for a [TS]

00:34:08   living right in this case is he sort of [TS]

00:34:10   an ad comp to an admiral and he's [TS]

00:34:13   actually pretty good at his job right [TS]

00:34:14   like he's basically a glorified you know [TS]

00:34:16   personal assistant but you get an idea [TS]

00:34:19   that he's very competent and you know [TS]

00:34:21   takes a certain amount of pride in his [TS]

00:34:23   work and even if he's not the you know [TS]

00:34:26   that you know an insect weasel as you [TS]

00:34:29   might say with the university like the [TS]

00:34:32   spies and the security officers running [TS]

00:34:33   around he's very happy to be doing [TS]

00:34:35   exactly what he's doing because you know [TS]

00:34:37   it provides him with just the right [TS]

00:34:38   amount of work versus responsibility and [TS]

00:34:42   I think you know it's it's tempting to [TS]

00:34:45   picture i've been especially from [TS]

00:34:46   earlier books as kind of a you know [TS]

00:34:49   layabout ne'er do well and it's it's [TS]

00:34:53   interesting when you get into his head [TS]

00:34:55   because he is a very different character [TS]

00:34:56   than he is then he portrays himself [TS]

00:34:59   right because he has this whole facade [TS]

00:35:02   going and so you know in the beginning [TS]

00:35:04   of this book we get we get a much better [TS]

00:35:05   idea being inside his head of what his [TS]

00:35:08   life is actually like and there is i [TS]

00:35:10   want to do you want to pick out another [TS]

00:35:11   great line you know this might give [TS]

00:35:13   something away it's not too much but [TS]

00:35:14   there's a line later on [TS]

00:35:16   where I think by rly ask something about [TS]

00:35:19   like what you you always seem to have [TS]

00:35:21   all these girlfriends hanging on and he [TS]

00:35:23   thinks you know so you've been very [TS]

00:35:25   successful than like what's the secret [TS]

00:35:26   and he thinks to himself you know nobody [TS]

00:35:29   ever realizes that if you have a lot of [TS]

00:35:30   girlfriends and entails break up with a [TS]

00:35:32   lot of weakness which I thought was a [TS]

00:35:35   tied-up just a great point at you know [TS]

00:35:40   this guy who is basically my texts [TS]

00:35:43   really be considered a womanizer and yet [TS]

00:35:45   you get the idea that everything is [TS]

00:35:47   pretty amicable and these things like he [TS]

00:35:49   has these relationships that disorder [TS]

00:35:51   don't go anywhere but he's not quite the [TS]

00:35:54   Playboy that you'd think he was right [TS]

00:35:57   well you've got a lot of visions of evan [TS]

00:36:00   from other characters you don't really [TS]

00:36:02   get him and you get sort of his outside [TS]

00:36:05   portrayal to other characters and they [TS]

00:36:08   just they take that image and run with [TS]

00:36:10   it and that's the only perspective that [TS]

00:36:13   we see but when you're in Ivan's head [TS]

00:36:15   all the time it's very easy to see that [TS]

00:36:17   he's not and he's not a womanizer he's [TS]

00:36:19   not a slacker [TS]

00:36:20   he just happens to be a band who you [TS]

00:36:23   know who's very well-versed in dating [TS]

00:36:26   and who is very good at his job and just [TS]

00:36:31   not passionate about advancement I mean [TS]

00:36:32   there's a thing early on where he's [TS]

00:36:34   talking about [TS]

00:36:34   I need to figure out how I can be [TS]

00:36:36   captain for patrol forever you know he's [TS]

00:36:39   he's I mean that's really the key and I [TS]

00:36:41   i didn't get all of this i think there's [TS]

00:36:43   some insight that I got into this [TS]

00:36:44   character that I didn't get from all [TS]

00:36:46   these other books which is he is quite [TS]

00:36:49   actively evading everything right [TS]

00:36:53   he's evading long-term relationships [TS]

00:36:55   with women he's not just having lots of [TS]

00:36:57   relationships with women he's evading [TS]

00:36:59   marrying all right yeah right [TS]

00:37:01   he's evading a sec which it you know [TS]

00:37:06   which he could work in and in fact in [TS]

00:37:08   this book that there's a there's sort of [TS]

00:37:11   a you could come work at him second he's [TS]

00:37:13   like no no I don't want to do that [TS]

00:37:15   that's what miles did I don't want to be [TS]

00:37:17   that and then there's this other thing [TS]

00:37:20   which is that because of his family up [TS]

00:37:22   until Emperor Gregor had kids he was [TS]

00:37:27   potentially politically if something [TS]

00:37:29   happened [TS]

00:37:30   regular or if there was a rebellion of [TS]

00:37:31   some kind of a possible Emperor right [TS]

00:37:34   he's he's third in line yeah he's got [TS]

00:37:36   it's basically arrow miles and him yet [TS]

00:37:40   so he's he and he doesn't want any of [TS]

00:37:43   that either so he wants to be it was to [TS]

00:37:45   do a good job he wants to live his life [TS]

00:37:47   and have a good time but more than [TS]

00:37:48   anything else he doesn't want what all [TS]

00:37:51   these other people who are characters in [TS]

00:37:53   books in this series have he doesn't [TS]

00:37:56   want to be the Imperial security expert [TS]

00:37:59   he doesn't want to have the rollicking [TS]

00:38:00   miles adventures he doesn't want to be [TS]

00:38:02   the Emperor or or beam you know married [TS]

00:38:05   into all the bar erm politics and family [TS]

00:38:08   you know connections and things like [TS]

00:38:10   that he just doesn't want to do that he [TS]

00:38:12   wants he's independent but he's not [TS]

00:38:14   independent in a kind of brash i'm gonna [TS]

00:38:16   live my own life kind of watch me i'm a [TS]

00:38:19   rebel he's that he's like the other one [TS]

00:38:20   which is I'm just going to fade away I [TS]

00:38:22   want to fade away into the woodwork and [TS]

00:38:25   not be bothered [TS]

00:38:26   leave me alone he doesn't want to be [TS]

00:38:28   noticed and I mean if we look at what [TS]

00:38:31   happens to the people in this series who [TS]

00:38:33   do get noticed they get put in grave [TS]

00:38:35   danger and I did show occasionally yeah [TS]

00:38:38   come back to life [TS]

00:38:40   I mean first you look at ya frozen [TS]

00:38:42   garden and every time I over and [TS]

00:38:46   involves I've been in one of his [TS]

00:38:47   adventures bad things and if yes [TS]

00:38:51   you can't believe no no it makes perfect [TS]

00:38:54   sense for I've into one has been proven [TS]

00:38:56   right well I think that's why we all [TS]

00:38:57   feel so sympathetic to the right we see [TS]

00:38:59   the fact that is dragged into these [TS]

00:39:01   things that get poor Ivan that's that's [TS]

00:39:03   the third right you know i would I [TS]

00:39:05   remember talking about this with my my [TS]

00:39:07   cousin who is the person who introduced [TS]

00:39:08   me to the books are just sit around and [TS]

00:39:10   chat about the books and and she would [TS]

00:39:12   always say poor Ivan you get when he's [TS]

00:39:16   gonna find a girl [TS]

00:39:17   well hey maybe we have a sister that's [TS]

00:39:20   what his mother was asking all right [TS]

00:39:21   when you have any other thoughts about [TS]

00:39:23   the book that you'd like to share before [TS]

00:39:24   we hang up on you and then spoil what [TS]

00:39:26   happens only that there's a lovely [TS]

00:39:29   little moment or we get to see Ivan sort [TS]

00:39:32   of not necessarily dedication to work [TS]

00:39:34   but his general idea of a workday which [TS]

00:39:36   is his sorting the snakes sexually and I [TS]

00:39:40   just I find that very charming [TS]

00:39:42   it's a lovely little determine of ya [TS]

00:39:45   yes very snake-charming I i really like [TS]

00:39:49   that that part and and see the fact that [TS]

00:39:52   he's gone so far into the metaphor as to [TS]

00:39:55   create different categories of sparing [TS]

00:39:58   poisonous snakes yes that that his [TS]

00:40:01   Admiral has to deal with so I found that [TS]

00:40:03   very nice i'm looking forward to redress [TS]

00:40:05   the book and now I will leave you to go [TS]

00:40:07   do that and you guys can talk and spoil [TS]

00:40:10   everything you listen to the rest of the [TS]

00:40:12   podcast but when you're done [TS]

00:40:14   yes alright well bid you all right [TS]

00:40:16   thanks for thanks for being on MH [TS]

00:40:19   goodbye goodbye live from disneyland [TS]

00:40:23   that was no with 67 she's home from [TS]

00:40:25   disneyland that was certainly Caldwell [TS]

00:40:27   hey we can spoil everything else today [TS]

00:40:29   so in the end and you wouldn't have seen [TS]

00:40:31   it coming in the end these two crazy [TS]

00:40:34   kids who got married for expedient [TS]

00:40:35   reasons end up falling in love and [TS]

00:40:38   decided to stay together after all [TS]

00:40:40   wait i thought they thought they [TS]

00:40:42   accidentally each committed suicide [TS]

00:40:44   thinking that the other was already haha [TS]

00:40:46   yes the common mistake [TS]

00:40:49   it does it does happen free shakespeare [TS]

00:40:51   in there too you know one of that one of [TS]

00:40:52   the scenes that made me laugh the most [TS]

00:40:53   was the scene where they're going to the [TS]

00:40:55   to the the Lord who's the judge who's [TS]

00:40:58   going to unmarry them [TS]

00:41:00   yeah and they're like it'll be easy it's [TS]

00:41:02   holiday it's all formality and I'm [TS]

00:41:04   sitting there going guys do not know [TS]

00:41:06   you're in a book this this is not gonna [TS]

00:41:08   go this is not gonna go well I also like [TS]

00:41:12   that that's done for almost no reason [TS]

00:41:14   like other than just that characters [TS]

00:41:16   like man I just gotta want to screw with [TS]

00:41:20   you [TS]

00:41:20   no no it's because it's because of [TS]

00:41:22   Ivan's mom because again they're all [TS]

00:41:25   related because they're all part of the [TS]

00:41:26   same family Ivan's mom calls him in [TS]

00:41:28   advance and says don't let them not get [TS]

00:41:30   married I think that's that it's in [TS]

00:41:33   there it's like right to my mother [TS]

00:41:35   yes I did talk to mother know my mother [TS]

00:41:40   won't let me not be married exactly but [TS]

00:41:42   it's again it's it's not i don't know [TS]

00:41:44   it's one of those things that it's not [TS]

00:41:46   exactly contrived but it feels like I [TS]

00:41:47   think that's gonna done kind of [TS]

00:41:48   capriciously [TS]

00:41:50   yeah even with his mother doing us being [TS]

00:41:52   like it's time it's time that you [TS]

00:41:55   learned a few things [TS]

00:41:56   yeah but again it's just all from its [TS]

00:41:58   done for Laughs I mean because of the [TS]

00:42:00   characters are like oh yeah we've got [TS]

00:42:01   this lockdown and and the other as the [TS]

00:42:03   audience you're not meant to think of [TS]

00:42:04   this is a plot twist right it's it's [TS]

00:42:05   it's really wanna go man [TS]

00:42:07   here we go yeah I know what's coming [TS]

00:42:10   here and it's funny I was annoyed about [TS]

00:42:13   generally like i said i enjoyed the book [TS]

00:42:16   I was annoyed that there's a character [TS]

00:42:18   with a nickname by because that just [TS]

00:42:21   confused me every time ever it maybe [TS]

00:42:22   just I'm just stupid but I was confused [TS]

00:42:25   i thought why is the sentence start with [TS]

00:42:27   x and then I'm gonna go it's the guy's [TS]

00:42:29   name it so nice is by early for routier [TS]

00:42:34   I'm richer [TS]

00:42:36   yeah yeah who's related to a terrible [TS]

00:42:38   there is a virtue earlier who's a [TS]

00:42:40   horrible character right [TS]

00:42:42   oh there's there's many many right but [TS]

00:42:43   he's an ass exception because people [TS]

00:42:45   think he is but he's not yeah of course [TS]

00:42:47   he turns out to be someone more [TS]

00:42:49   conscientious another playboy who [TS]

00:42:51   yeah and in a Shakespeare kind of [TS]

00:42:53   fashion again you have the second couple [TS]

00:42:55   stories are happening in the background [TS]

00:42:57   of the first couple with that it's [TS]

00:42:59   probably not just Shakespeare you know [TS]

00:43:00   it's also like a forest kind of [TS]

00:43:01   construction but you've got you've got [TS]

00:43:03   buy-in rich and he keeps trying to plant [TS]

00:43:06   bugs on her [TS]

00:43:07   yes because he's trying to spy on on on [TS]

00:43:09   her and so she can of course she keeps [TS]

00:43:11   finding them and disabling them but [TS]

00:43:14   they're in love [TS]

00:43:15   anyway it's been nice what yes so what's [TS]

00:43:18   what's interesting about this book is [TS]

00:43:19   that you know what you get about I would [TS]

00:43:22   say about what sixty percent the way [TS]

00:43:23   through and it does take a left turn [TS]

00:43:26   right because we start we moved from [TS]

00:43:28   being this thing that's purely about a [TS]

00:43:30   comedy to there's a there's a plot [TS]

00:43:32   yes I was something has to happen [TS]

00:43:35   something must happen I mean I i would [TS]

00:43:38   happily have read and continue reading [TS]

00:43:39   the book just watching i begin 21 [TS]

00:43:41   trouble after another but i understand [TS]

00:43:43   that that's not necessarily compelling [TS]

00:43:44   for everybody actually one of the things [TS]

00:43:46   I appreciate about but this plot is that [TS]

00:43:48   the plot was not I thought this was [TS]

00:43:51   going to be that they escaped to Bari [TS]

00:43:54   are and then the bad people who are [TS]

00:43:57   trying to kill her family do something [TS]

00:43:59   and get them in trouble and they have to [TS]

00:44:02   sit saver and it was [TS]

00:44:03   going to be that was going to be what it [TS]

00:44:06   was it was connected by a little bit [TS]

00:44:07   paint-by-numbers yeah I i just i was [TS]

00:44:09   concerned that it was gonna be one of [TS]

00:44:11   those things and instead again she goes [TS]

00:44:13   for the family drama thing where her [TS]

00:44:15   family shows up and they're awful [TS]

00:44:17   they're awful people not all there i [TS]

00:44:20   mean they're they're in nature of their [TS]

00:44:22   circumstance right well they're there [TS]

00:44:24   they're from Jackson's hole and they're [TS]

00:44:26   also saw the schemers and they're also [TS]

00:44:28   on the run so they're desperate right [TS]

00:44:30   and they have this they have this plan [TS]

00:44:31   to go look for a volt yes with the [TS]

00:44:34   treasure basically buried treasure under [TS]

00:44:36   bar er which leads to more laughter when [TS]

00:44:38   it's discovered that the buried treasure [TS]

00:44:40   is under the massive spy complex at the [TS]

00:44:43   heart of the Empire just where you want [TS]

00:44:45   to go digging which I which is great [TS]

00:44:50   it's one of those it again it is a [TS]

00:44:52   farcical I move right because it's like [TS]

00:44:54   oh well this won't be too much trouble [TS]

00:44:56   we'll just find this old vault that the [TS]

00:44:57   grandmother used to work at during the [TS]

00:44:59   occupation and we'll just dig it up and [TS]

00:45:01   we'll be on our way [TS]

00:45:02   oh yes can you tell you here's this [TS]

00:45:04   building that i would like to see where [TS]

00:45:06   that was can you take me there and they [TS]

00:45:08   go to their ugly building next to it so [TS]

00:45:10   that's that Imperial security [TS]

00:45:11   headquarters [TS]

00:45:12   oh it's going to be hard yeah yeah and [TS]

00:45:16   then they they hit the end so then [TS]

00:45:18   there's a so you've got the the family [TS]

00:45:20   dynamics because Ted is not really well [TS]

00:45:22   treated by her family she's the little [TS]

00:45:23   she's a little list you know she's the [TS]

00:45:25   youngest and she's it the least kind of [TS]

00:45:28   like likely to become a double-crossing [TS]

00:45:33   trader person and she's married a guy [TS]

00:45:36   from a backwater planet [TS]

00:45:38   yeah oh the who is a the embarrassment [TS]

00:45:41   noble but but potentially in line for [TS]

00:45:43   the throne so maybe at the end but you [TS]

00:45:45   might be able to lie I have to say I [TS]

00:45:47   really enjoyed her father [TS]

00:45:49   oh yeah the expired who is somehow [TS]

00:45:52   stumbled into you know he married into [TS]

00:45:54   the being becoming a barren right yeah [TS]

00:45:56   of a small jacksonian family but he's [TS]

00:45:59   got i really enjoy him because even [TS]

00:46:01   though he is scheming he loves his [TS]

00:46:03   daughters he loves young way that his [TS]

00:46:05   wife does not right and he's also he's [TS]

00:46:07   arranged [TS]

00:46:08   he's very jolly he's very kind of bluff [TS]

00:46:11   and you know [TS]

00:46:13   unassuming to a certain extent was just [TS]

00:46:16   like you know this is my thing I do my [TS]

00:46:18   thing and the end and that you know runs [TS]

00:46:21   up against one of my other favorite [TS]

00:46:23   bujold characters to make an appearance [TS]

00:46:25   here who is Simon million the former [TS]

00:46:28   head of the Imperial Security Service [TS]

00:46:30   what the hell Simon with hello Simon who [TS]

00:46:34   basically engages in a bet with him that [TS]

00:46:37   he can't break into the vaults rather [TS]

00:46:40   than actually alerting security they [TS]

00:46:42   make a bet [TS]

00:46:43   I mean I just love the idea that you [TS]

00:46:45   know you've got Simon who you know [TS]

00:46:46   famously an in-memory which is my [TS]

00:46:48   favorite book in the series loses the [TS]

00:46:50   memory chip that he has in his head that [TS]

00:46:52   basically gives him perfect recall and [TS]

00:46:54   so becomes everyone sort of thinks of is [TS]

00:46:56   becoming this daughter an old clueless [TS]

00:46:59   guy when in fact yeah he's got some [TS]

00:47:01   memory problems but he's really sharp [TS]

00:47:03   still right you know he's still he's [TS]

00:47:05   still a clever guy because he was in [TS]

00:47:06   charge of the spy service for you know [TS]

00:47:08   decades and but you get the impression [TS]

00:47:11   that he's he's bored right like that's [TS]

00:47:13   all there is to it is just he is bored [TS]

00:47:16   with having this life where he just got [TS]

00:47:18   he's basically so he's a sort of you [TS]

00:47:21   know tired sort of tired he's not [TS]

00:47:24   married to ivans mother but there's kind [TS]

00:47:28   of this year they're living there living [TS]

00:47:30   together basically and what we learned [TS]

00:47:32   from this is that is that he he's better [TS]

00:47:35   off better than he's letting on and that [TS]

00:47:37   he actually you know there may be more [TS]

00:47:40   for him to do in his life right hehe is [TS]

00:47:42   kind of come to grips which is also nice [TS]

00:47:45   because having read if you again the [TS]

00:47:46   richness of having read these other [TS]

00:47:48   books have read memory you know kind of [TS]

00:47:50   the story with this character is gone [TS]

00:47:51   and this is almost you know there's some [TS]

00:47:53   Redemption happening here where is like [TS]

00:47:55   you know you know I'm not useless I've [TS]

00:47:57   got I just because i don't have the [TS]

00:47:59   perfect memory anymore their stuff i can [TS]

00:48:01   do i can play a part in all of this and [TS]

00:48:03   he does right and it's nice to get a [TS]

00:48:05   view of him that is not colored by him [TS]

00:48:08   being sort of forced to be miles boss [TS]

00:48:11   yeah and having to be the pushback the [TS]

00:48:15   straight man sort of 22 miles of schemes [TS]

00:48:18   yeah exactly and so in this time he gets [TS]

00:48:20   a chance to sort of cut loose a little [TS]

00:48:22   bit and and play it play it fast and [TS]

00:48:24   loose [TS]

00:48:25   which works out not-so-great yeah yeah [TS]

00:48:30   so what's that mean again it's this plot [TS]

00:48:33   the way that it goes you get the family [TS]

00:48:35   dynamic and then you get this heist [TS]

00:48:36   thing right where they're they're going [TS]

00:48:38   to pull off the heist it's totally not [TS]

00:48:40   what i expected going to pull off the [TS]

00:48:41   heist and under the under the insect [TS]

00:48:45   headquarters and and they and then [TS]

00:48:48   there's you know there's like the [TS]

00:48:49   biological weapon of the burrowing stuff [TS]

00:48:53   that they would you want to dig when you [TS]

00:48:55   can just unleash this untested organism [TS]

00:48:59   that will eat the dirt for you [TS]

00:49:00   what could go wrong yeah well you don't [TS]

00:49:02   you can't dig because the sensors will [TS]

00:49:03   pick it up but that organism we'll just [TS]

00:49:05   yeah and so that leads and then yes [TS]

00:49:08   there is a double-cross and and and all [TS]

00:49:10   that but you never really get I I you [TS]

00:49:13   know he's never really get a sense the [TS]

00:49:14   characters think they're in danger but [TS]

00:49:16   no nobody else does write the readers [TS]

00:49:18   don't think they're really in danger now [TS]

00:49:20   it's it's one of those is one of those [TS]

00:49:21   plots where you know everybody will make [TS]

00:49:23   it out in the end it's not that kind of [TS]

00:49:24   book right you know the tone is set if [TS]

00:49:27   they'd taken a left turn it really had [TS]

00:49:28   become become something where lives are [TS]

00:49:31   at stake right like that wouldn't have [TS]

00:49:32   worked it would have felt strangely it [TS]

00:49:35   would have felt contrived and it would [TS]

00:49:36   have felt like oh yeah you're just [TS]

00:49:37   trying to make this more interesting [TS]

00:49:38   book week it so it's you know it's a [TS]

00:49:40   romp yeah and there's nothing wrong I [TS]

00:49:42   mean that that's actually one of the [TS]

00:49:43   things that I found really charming [TS]

00:49:44   about it is that it's nice to read a [TS]

00:49:47   story like this i ated been a little [TS]

00:49:48   while before i read a book that I just [TS]

00:49:50   wanted to rip through as fast as i can [TS]

00:49:52   and am I we were talking about this that [TS]

00:49:54   you want to read it and then you you [TS]

00:49:56   also keep saying to yourself never [TS]

00:49:57   slowed down because there's not going to [TS]

00:49:58   be another one of these books for years [TS]

00:50:00   so i gotta slow down and enjoy my time [TS]

00:50:02   with this and yet i really wanted to [TS]

00:50:04   just keep on I want to keep on going [TS]

00:50:07   because it was so much fun just to do [TS]

00:50:10   you mean it's a rob it is it was just [TS]

00:50:12   it's fun and it's like 10 slow down her [TS]

00:50:15   sling it out as we as i went to just [TS]

00:50:17   sort of try and make sure that I you [TS]

00:50:19   know could read it over at least you [TS]

00:50:21   know a week or two so the headquarters [TS]

00:50:23   building collapses at the end which the [TS]

00:50:25   final I I thought wishes down into the [TS]

00:50:27   mud [TS]

00:50:28   I thought that was hilarious be like as [TS]

00:50:30   soon as a couple because they keep going [TS]

00:50:32   on about and then special assignment who [TS]

00:50:34   is like god I thought this is the [TS]

00:50:35   ugliest building ever i really just I [TS]

00:50:37   tried to get ready get a reply [TS]

00:50:38   under your budget whereas you in and so [TS]

00:50:41   it's and it's the setup is perfect and [TS]

00:50:43   not really thinking about that and [TS]

00:50:44   they're like they've been taking away [TS]

00:50:45   and then they have to go get trapped in [TS]

00:50:47   there and they have to dig them out and [TS]

00:50:49   then everyone's like how great we we did [TS]

00:50:51   everything and it's a great scene with [TS]

00:50:52   Gregor like I don't really look at this [TS]

00:50:54   building it seems kind of tilted to the [TS]

00:50:57   whole thing just comes down and and [TS]

00:51:00   Simon is like really likes start [TS]

00:51:02   laughing out [TS]

00:51:03   yeah haha she's that was i couldnae the [TS]

00:51:06   picture by head was just so vivid that I [TS]

00:51:08   is great [TS]

00:51:09   Gregor get some nice pieces in here too [TS]

00:51:12   it's nice to see him as you know [TS]

00:51:13   grown-up and and being all you know [TS]

00:51:16   Imperial my bad shape right competent [TS]

00:51:19   and he just he's clearly he's clearly [TS]

00:51:22   the best i think they sort of alluded to [TS]

00:51:24   this in some of the previous you know [TS]

00:51:26   books but he's clearly the right guy for [TS]

00:51:27   the yeah right you know he knows what [TS]

00:51:29   he's doing that's one of the things I [TS]

00:51:30   liked about the previous books is that [TS]

00:51:32   is that we start with kind of an insane [TS]

00:51:34   Emperor and you thinking you know it's [TS]

00:51:36   going to be one of those things it's [TS]

00:51:37   gonna be like Joffrey and Game of [TS]

00:51:38   Thrones right where you're like oh geez [TS]

00:51:41   things are gonna go really bad when this [TS]

00:51:42   kid is the Emperor and it turns out [TS]

00:51:44   actually that unlike most of the rest of [TS]

00:51:46   his family [TS]

00:51:47   Gregor is a you know he gets through and [TS]

00:51:49   is and is a good Emperor and does a good [TS]

00:51:52   job and and mostly because miles is dad [TS]

00:51:54   was you know a good Guardian and and [TS]

00:51:59   helped you know steer him in the right [TS]

00:52:01   direction but he's also a good person [TS]

00:52:03   who's the right guy for the job right [TS]

00:52:06   yeah I like that part I like that I like [TS]

00:52:08   that we do get to see miles briefly it's [TS]

00:52:11   nice to that we get a that we get a [TS]

00:52:14   cameo from him that that doesn't manage [TS]

00:52:16   to overwhelm the book [TS]

00:52:17   why do we see him I don't think he's at [TS]

00:52:19   the he's at the advice in the dinner [TS]

00:52:21   they come to that they come to see [TS]

00:52:23   Gregor at his house and we get him and [TS]

00:52:26   Catherine we're chasing the kids around [TS]

00:52:28   gray have you know we have a brief scene [TS]

00:52:30   and we have a lot of scenes were miles [TS]

00:52:32   is like laughing you know into his into [TS]

00:52:36   his hand at at the kind of stuff is [TS]

00:52:37   going [TS]

00:52:38   there's also a lot of talk around miles [TS]

00:52:40   because sure there's this there's the [TS]

00:52:42   suggested earlier on [TS]

00:52:44   there's the part where you know tester [TS]

00:52:47   someone remembers this one that you know [TS]

00:52:49   the house that gets taken down by this [TS]

00:52:51   one room [TS]

00:52:51   guiyang like that that smile weird about [TS]

00:52:55   yes [TS]

00:52:55   yeah it's like it's nice to see all the [TS]

00:52:57   things like because they they echo [TS]

00:52:58   there's a lot of stuff from previous [TS]

00:53:00   books that echoes through that again is [TS]

00:53:02   rewarding even if its and it plays into [TS]

00:53:05   a way that makes sense right guys we [TS]

00:53:07   know that was miles to take down but we [TS]

00:53:09   never get a point at which he's like oh [TS]

00:53:10   yeah that was me i took this pic this [TS]

00:53:12   house like right like she acts sort of [TS]

00:53:14   realistically like he was a spy right he [TS]

00:53:15   was working undercover so he's not gonna [TS]

00:53:16   he's killed sort of alluded to having [TS]

00:53:18   been there but you know he's not going [TS]

00:53:20   to talk about what he did we get the [TS]

00:53:21   stuff where I like the bits were where [TS]

00:53:24   you know I've been talking about being [TS]

00:53:25   on set ganda yeah and kind of impresses [TS]

00:53:27   the grandmother you know with the fact [TS]

00:53:29   that he's like oh well you've actually [TS]

00:53:31   you know been to my home world and met [TS]

00:53:33   all they'd be high class [TS]

00:53:35   yeah the the whole ladies and all that [TS]

00:53:38   right where all the ladies are in the [TS]

00:53:40   bubbles right and so in that stuff plays [TS]

00:53:43   in right you know there's there's [TS]

00:53:44   references that that helped remind you [TS]

00:53:46   that the stuff that would logically come [TS]

00:53:49   up in these conversations because we've [TS]

00:53:50   seen them happen actually do come up [TS]

00:53:52   because that is one of those things that [TS]

00:53:53   frustrates me when I read and like [TS]

00:53:55   someone up to sleep doesn't remember [TS]

00:53:57   something that clearly they should [TS]

00:53:58   remember you know you're reading a book [TS]

00:54:01   and they're like oh but you know who [TS]

00:54:03   clearly remember that you know [TS]

00:54:05   oh and again Skywalker c-3po you that [TS]

00:54:09   never came up again now so and i like [TS]

00:54:12   that so you know it sounds so Scott you [TS]

00:54:15   said you you would necessarily have read [TS]

00:54:18   other books in the series if it had been [TS]

00:54:20   your first but that because you've read [TS]

00:54:22   the others you this is very complicated [TS]

00:54:24   but you liked it [TS]

00:54:25   yes I i did like it i mean i know in our [TS]

00:54:27   last podcast i complained about how I [TS]

00:54:30   thought miles was an annoying character [TS]

00:54:32   right reading this book made me [TS]

00:54:34   appreciate miles as a character because [TS]

00:54:38   I he is much more active so is not [TS]

00:54:41   really you guys we talked about ivan is [TS]

00:54:43   not looking for adventure he is not he [TS]

00:54:46   doesn't want to be the center of [TS]

00:54:46   attention which makes him an interesting [TS]

00:54:49   character when there's somebody who is [TS]

00:54:52   doing stuff and so stuff happens Ivan [TS]

00:54:55   which is ok funny but I don't [TS]

00:54:58   it was a quick read it was fun I like [TS]

00:55:00   the characters [TS]

00:55:01   she's good writer I just obviously i [TS]

00:55:04   don't i don't know i don't think i've [TS]

00:55:05   been can carry another book this is like [TS]

00:55:09   the most momentous thing that ever [TS]

00:55:10   happens dive and that doesn't involve [TS]

00:55:12   miles right i mean that's sort of the [TS]

00:55:13   sense i get as well but there was that [TS]

00:55:15   time where you know how did you two meet [TS]

00:55:17   right it's like well okay this is how [TS]

00:55:19   how how what is how i met your mother [TS]

00:55:21   what would it take for Ivan to to get [TS]

00:55:24   married and this is the answer this is [TS]

00:55:26   the book that answers that it's a series [TS]

00:55:28   of ridiculous event would have to do it [TS]

00:55:29   by accident [TS]

00:55:30   yeah right that's the only way it would [TS]

00:55:32   work and and yeah I don't think I expect [TS]

00:55:35   there to be many look I don't I read [TS]

00:55:37   another book I mean I i look forward to [TS]

00:55:40   seeing him in a future book as a side [TS]

00:55:42   character but I I oh yeah I think he's a [TS]

00:55:45   great character but he's not a main [TS]

00:55:48   character so Dan you said that a at lois [TS]

00:55:54   mcmaster Pujols reading she said you [TS]

00:55:57   said to me privately not in a previous [TS]

00:55:59   episode that she is working on something [TS]

00:56:02   involving miles [TS]

00:56:03   yeah there's a she's writing a novella [TS]

00:56:05   to be released it i think someone in [TS]

00:56:09   determining point but she read the first [TS]

00:56:11   sort of section of a mini novel is it [TS]

00:56:13   isn't set after cranbourne know it is [TS]

00:56:15   set before crime as this we should [TS]

00:56:17   mention this is also set before cry burn [TS]

00:56:20   so so we're going with you know she's [TS]

00:56:21   right again continues to write out of [TS]

00:56:23   sequence and ending in cryo burn you [TS]

00:56:27   know some momentous things happen at the [TS]

00:56:28   very end and at that you really should [TS]

00:56:32   know about because if you're listening [TS]

00:56:34   to this you really must have read it [TS]

00:56:36   right but I'm she doesn't seem to get [TS]

00:56:39   it's interesting because it's I wonder [TS]

00:56:42   she said before that she felt like that [TS]

00:56:44   was in some ways the end of miles a [TS]

00:56:45   story and so it's interesting that maybe [TS]

00:56:49   she's yeah she's writing in coloring in [TS]

00:56:51   other corners again and I think you let [TS]

00:56:52   you know as without many other writers [TS]

00:56:54   who have hurt a thing well you know if [TS]

00:56:56   the idea comes to me and I find [TS]

00:56:58   something I want to write about that i [TS]

00:56:59   will write another story but you know [TS]

00:57:01   i'm not planning necessarily to to write [TS]

00:57:04   something else and so I think this story [TS]

00:57:07   takes place i don't i don't know what [TS]

00:57:08   the entire thrust of it is i can tell [TS]

00:57:09   you that the section that she read deals [TS]

00:57:11   with [TS]

00:57:12   as you write might remember there's the [TS]

00:57:14   section of there's the land that miles [TS]

00:57:16   owns that's all radioactive right and so [TS]

00:57:20   should you it deals with them trying to [TS]

00:57:23   use the do you remember the bugs from [TS]

00:57:26   civil contain the butter trying to get [TS]

00:57:29   them to eat up all the radiator [TS]

00:57:31   irradiated or at least they're testing [TS]

00:57:33   them and trying to get them to eat [TS]

00:57:35   irradiated stuff and clean it out [TS]

00:57:37   basically [TS]

00:57:38   so that's what the whole first service [TS]

00:57:40   section deals with a trip that he and [TS]

00:57:42   Katherine and turnover if there's [TS]

00:57:45   someone else in there will regain the [TS]

00:57:48   scientist who developed the bugs are [TS]

00:57:49   sort of tailing and seeing how this put [TS]

00:57:51   how this project is going i feel like [TS]

00:57:54   there are lots of stories for her to [TS]

00:57:55   tell that don't involve miles in this [TS]

00:57:57   universe that our little sitting out [TS]

00:57:58   there there are lots of questions about [TS]

00:58:00   what miles is clone brother Mark is [TS]

00:58:04   doing [TS]

00:58:04   yep with his girlfriend yet he gets a [TS]

00:58:08   couple nods in this book I like [TS]

00:58:09   preemptively that he behind that he buys [TS]

00:58:12   em sexo you can show that you're into a [TS]

00:58:14   boat [TS]

00:58:14   yeah yeah yeah look like a themed hotel [TS]

00:58:18   you can stay the night at one of the [TS]

00:58:19   interrogation cells that's that's really [TS]

00:58:22   fun i feel like there's there's some [TS]

00:58:24   stuff to be told there and I also kind [TS]

00:58:26   of feel like she keeps hinting that [TS]

00:58:28   there's a story about arrow and Cordelia [TS]

00:58:32   yeah answer gr surgery circular this [TS]

00:58:35   this barren planet that they're going to [TS]

00:58:37   where he is the Viceroy because we've [TS]

00:58:39   seen them kind of flipped in and out of [TS]

00:58:41   there but we haven't I don't think we [TS]

00:58:44   haven't seen them at all since the Civil [TS]

00:58:45   campaign i think is the last time they [TS]

00:58:46   actually appear right but they're [TS]

00:58:49   clearly you know they're there multiple [TS]

00:58:51   references to other their kind of [TS]

00:58:53   enjoying their semi-retirement yeah yeah [TS]

00:58:57   but so I feel like that you know there [TS]

00:58:58   are other characters that you know Ivan [TS]

00:59:00   decide that that would be interesting [TS]

00:59:02   for her to write things about AI guess [TS]

00:59:04   you know in the end she just has to come [TS]

00:59:06   up with a story that she thinks it's [TS]

00:59:08   worth writing but it's encouraging when [TS]

00:59:10   I saw her at a world con last year you [TS]

00:59:16   know i got it felt to me like she wasn't [TS]

00:59:17   gonna write miles stuff again and that [TS]

00:59:19   ivan was her chance to play in this [TS]

00:59:21   universe without mile so it really [TS]

00:59:23   encouraging that she's reading this [TS]

00:59:25   novel [TS]

00:59:25   la involving miles and maybe what she's [TS]

00:59:28   really saying is that she's having a [TS]

00:59:29   hard time seeing how she writes beyond [TS]

00:59:31   the end of crying over and although i [TS]

00:59:33   find that funny because I actually have [TS]

00:59:35   always assumed that the natural capstone [TS]

00:59:37   of this entire thing this entire story [TS]

00:59:40   is that miles goes back to to Bari r and [TS]

00:59:45   ends up basically being the advisor you [TS]

00:59:48   know that the number one adviser to the [TS]

00:59:50   Emperor just like his dad was right and [TS]

00:59:55   I mean and that and because we get a [TS]

00:59:56   whole bunch of the series of his life [TS]

00:59:58   where he's in all these different roles [TS]

00:59:58   where he's in all these different roles [TS]

01:00:00   right you know whether it be Admiral [TS]

01:00:02   Naismith or you know Lord Lieutenant [TS]

01:00:05   Burk goes again or Lord auditor virgos [TS]

01:00:07   again and so there is the issue of well [TS]

01:00:10   what does you know count miles for music [TS]

01:00:12   in you know look like as a character [TS]

01:00:15   count miles were closed again and [TS]

01:00:17   Emperor Gregor you know as older fellows [TS]

01:00:20   with family you know I i would love to [TS]

01:00:23   see as a cap stone you know a last book [TS]

01:00:27   chronologically in this series [TS]

01:00:29   I'd like to see that i'd like to see [TS]

01:00:31   something that almost brings it all the [TS]

01:00:32   way back around where there are new [TS]

01:00:34   things happening with with the with [TS]

01:00:37   their families but they are now in that [TS]

01:00:39   in that you know high-level strategic [TS]

01:00:41   role and see something that like that [TS]

01:00:43   level at the level of the Emperor what [TS]

01:00:45   is the Emperor of this empire that it [TS]

01:00:48   with many planets and and relations with [TS]

01:00:51   all of these different powers [TS]

01:00:52   how does that work and what is that like [TS]

01:00:54   especially when if miles kids if they're [TS]

01:00:56   anything like him are Haring off doing [TS]

01:00:58   crazy things right [TS]

01:00:59   oh yeah exactly i I she may be going [TS]

01:01:02   there eventually but that's the one [TS]

01:01:04   thing that i would kind of like to see [TS]

01:01:06   even mile stories basically done [TS]

01:01:08   I'd like to see that kind of capstone of [TS]

01:01:10   him growing up all the way and being [TS]

01:01:13   like his dad basically after all of this [TS]

01:01:16   time and I think that his hit the death [TS]

01:01:18   of his father at the end of cryo weren't [TS]

01:01:20   there I said who is which happens [TS]

01:01:24   off-screen he's his old and he had her [TS]

01:01:26   head like medical problems you know was [TS]

01:01:29   not unexpected but to the reader i guess [TS]

01:01:32   but it was unexpected two miles [TS]

01:01:33   I i like to see that last threshold [TS]

01:01:35   crossed and and sort of see that you [TS]

01:01:38   know his dad's gone he's now account [TS]

01:01:40   Gregor's been on the throne for a long [TS]

01:01:42   time and what's that like we're miles [TS]

01:01:44   has to like be responsible in a way that [TS]

01:01:47   he's nice and he's got kids and he's [TS]

01:01:48   married in a way that he never had to [TS]

01:01:50   before but I don't know so it is great i [TS]

01:01:53   hope she keeps keeps writing this stuff [TS]

01:01:55   because they're fun and the universe is [TS]

01:01:56   really just so deep and the characters [TS]

01:01:59   are great that that the more the better [TS]

01:02:01   i think i agree yeah yeah i really [TS]

01:02:05   enjoyed this more than any book in this [TS]

01:02:10   series sense [TS]

01:02:13   I love civil campaign maybe yeah [TS]

01:02:16   diplomatic immunity is not my favorite [TS]

01:02:17   it was it was the one that came out [TS]

01:02:20   right after I so I read the entire [TS]

01:02:22   series and the diplomatic community came [TS]

01:02:24   out like right after I finished reading [TS]

01:02:26   everything up to that point and it was [TS]

01:02:29   kind of a it was kind of a letdown for [TS]

01:02:31   me it was not my favorite because in [TS]

01:02:33   part because we just left a single [TS]

01:02:34   campaign which is so it has so much [TS]

01:02:37   stuff in it and it's so that's the pace [TS]

01:02:41   of it is so you know fast and involves [TS]

01:02:44   so many characters that we know and we [TS]

01:02:45   love and then we get thrown away into [TS]

01:02:48   this entirely different realm where we [TS]

01:02:50   don't really know most of the characters [TS]

01:02:52   and so it's like leaving the comfort of [TS]

01:02:55   your own and and I felt like you know I [TS]

01:02:57   I was not as engaged cry Auburn had [TS]

01:03:00   things that I liked in it but it was not [TS]

01:03:06   yeah it wasn't my favorite yeah when [TS]

01:03:07   they it wasn't bad it just it we talked [TS]

01:03:10   about crime on the hugo show we talked [TS]

01:03:12   about crabber into and I you know I [TS]

01:03:14   think we also it's not it's not bad but [TS]

01:03:17   it was you know it's tough to stack up [TS]

01:03:20   against there are so many books in the [TS]

01:03:21   series that are really yeah good yeah [TS]

01:03:23   oh and and so what I'd say about about [TS]

01:03:25   this book is I thought this book was way [TS]

01:03:27   better than cry Auburn and better than [TS]

01:03:29   diplomatic immunity I mean by by a long [TS]

01:03:32   shot [TS]

01:03:33   yeah and and that's good that's kinda [TS]

01:03:36   sort of unexpected was nice because it [TS]

01:03:38   gave it it was it was it was an [TS]

01:03:39   opportunity I think to break the mold a [TS]

01:03:41   bit too right oh yeah [TS]

01:03:42   by doing Ivan and by doing something [TS]

01:03:44   that's a little bit lighter it was an [TS]

01:03:45   opportunity to go outside the formula [TS]

01:03:47   that I think we've dealt with miles now [TS]

01:03:49   which is Miles go somewhere there's you [TS]

01:03:51   know may happen and problems and he sort [TS]

01:03:54   of gets himself in trouble then gets [TS]

01:03:55   himself out of trouble and gets really [TS]

01:03:57   clever and solves their reading and [TS]

01:03:58   writing burn was different because it [TS]

01:03:59   was trying to tell a story about miles [TS]

01:04:00   from somebody else's perspective so that [TS]

01:04:03   you've got to see what how other people [TS]

01:04:05   see miles but you know this with this [TS]

01:04:08   was a this was a better book so i assume [TS]

01:04:11   it'll just get nominated for hugo award [TS]

01:04:12   because they all do now and then we will [TS]

01:04:15   we will have read it for the big Hugo or [TS]

01:04:18   podcast [TS]

01:04:19   yeah maybe this time I'll get around to [TS]

01:04:21   reading the rest of the people in the [TS]

01:04:22   future who have been instructed by [TS]

01:04:24   ourselves in the future to refer back to [TS]

01:04:27   this episode because this is where we [TS]

01:04:29   talked about that episode that's gonna [TS]

01:04:31   get nominated in the summer of 2013 for [TS]

01:04:34   the hugo hi everybody in 2013 [TS]

01:04:37   we're listening thanks for coming back [TS]

01:04:40   to our episode from 2012 i hope you're [TS]

01:04:42   enjoying your jet packs in the future [TS]

01:04:44   yeah yeah and i hope i don't have to [TS]

01:04:46   read the third mirror granted got [TS]

01:04:49   nominated I can't believe it i hope lot [TS]

01:04:51   i hope not [TS]

01:04:52   it's gonna be okay you guys gonna be [TS]

01:04:54   okay I hope so thanks for sharing me [TS]

01:04:57   there dan I'm I'm here for you [TS]

01:04:59   well this is book club two weeks in a [TS]

01:05:01   row how about that crazy we should stop [TS]

01:05:04   reading stuff [TS]

01:05:05   yeah seriously quit over as here so I i [TS]

01:05:07   what am i doing i I'm trying to reading [TS]

01:05:10   I'm trying to read what we you know we [TS]

01:05:13   we did this a week ago so what are we [TS]

01:05:15   reading anything different [TS]

01:05:16   I want to finish the capital patrols [TS]

01:05:17   total is which I was really big and [TS]

01:05:19   finish the book i was really and read [TS]

01:05:21   another wow I don't know what's got it [TS]

01:05:24   was really her through uh lost in a good [TS]

01:05:27   book on thursday next novel who struggle [TS]

01:05:30   struggle struggle i am kind of [TS]

01:05:31   struggling and it's not really going [TS]

01:05:33   very well for me but you know maybe [TS]

01:05:35   it'll pick up its otherwise his his a [TS]

01:05:38   his character names make me laugh and [TS]

01:05:40   laugh and laugh because they're so [TS]

01:05:42   ridiculous I feel like just before word [TS]

01:05:45   is the kind of author that you will [TS]

01:05:47   immediately like or immediately dislike [TS]

01:05:49   well that hasn't happened with me either [TS]

01:05:53   one either way I've in the dyno that it [TS]

01:05:55   was a glen cir trying to read it yet but [TS]

01:05:57   it was just super wow I'm surprised I i [TS]

01:06:00   really enjoy i really like to ask for a [TS]

01:06:02   lot i know i'm i'm on the fence about [TS]

01:06:05   just I think I've read everything that [TS]

01:06:07   he is written while even his letters [TS]

01:06:10   private letters do I read his email [TS]

01:06:13   well already started his tweets amazing [TS]

01:06:16   tweets as well enjoy his tweets about [TS]

01:06:19   enjoying screams with all their yes [TS]

01:06:21   hotel carpet picture skirt is a very [TS]

01:06:24   strange man [TS]

01:06:25   yes Bob and I am reading i have either [TS]

01:06:29   of you read this [TS]

01:06:31   the sci-fi series The Lost [TS]

01:06:32   sweet by Jack Campbell oh I have a [TS]

01:06:36   couple of those books that have already [TS]

01:06:37   know i think i have one of those but i [TS]

01:06:39   haven't read it it's interesting it's I [TS]

01:06:44   like the premise a lot i am i'm curious [TS]

01:06:47   to see if as the book and I guess this [TS]

01:06:50   is a longer series will see you have a [TS]

01:06:52   if I finished the first book if I'm [TS]

01:06:53   compelled to go on to the rest of the [TS]

01:06:54   books in the series has in trouble with [TS]

01:06:56   the writing in the first book though it [TS]

01:07:01   is very much like you know it's clearly [TS]

01:07:03   something sort of action-packed and [TS]

01:07:05   designed to get you like sucked in [TS]

01:07:07   but having come right off of Captain [TS]

01:07:09   Border Patrol's Alliance eat you know it [TS]

01:07:12   was kind of like looking at it two books [TS]

01:07:15   and being like these are not necessarily [TS]

01:07:18   the same caliber I just I i had real [TS]

01:07:22   trouble with the beginning of this book [TS]

01:07:23   because I felt like all the characters [TS]

01:07:24   were talking to each other and they were [TS]

01:07:26   all saying exactly what they mean like [TS]

01:07:29   little words like people don't people [TS]

01:07:32   don't do that people don't talk like you [TS]

01:07:35   know right that that straightforwardly [TS]

01:07:38   so we'll see i'm still reading it I will [TS]

01:07:42   finish it and see see if I'm compelled [TS]

01:07:44   to go on is apparently a quite lengthy [TS]

01:07:46   series Scott uh what what should I read [TS]

01:07:51   next I have on my kindle right now I [TS]

01:07:53   have never wear by Neil Gaiman I have [TS]

01:07:56   considered officially bus carefully [TS]

01:07:59   since ye and Wang's well I've ever both [TS]

01:08:01   and i have good omens by Neil Gaiman [TS]

01:08:03   I've read all three if you read all [TS]

01:08:05   three of those as well I didn't ask you [TS]

01:08:07   dad [TS]

01:08:08   no I got you down I'd read all three of [TS]

01:08:10   those which I read next of those three i [TS]

01:08:12   would pick consider of feel however slay [TS]

01:08:15   bus syllabus because i love the culture [TS]

01:08:18   books are and it is the 25th anniversary [TS]

01:08:20   of the culture series so you can read [TS]

01:08:24   and enjoy the ship names [TS]

01:08:26   ok which is you and dan do you agree or [TS]

01:08:28   disagree that I like the culture [TS]