The Incomparable

109: Evil, Surfing Ronald McDonald


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast number 109 [TS]

00:00:11   September atlantique well welcome back [TS]

00:00:15   to the incomparable podcast and Jason [TS]

00:00:16   smell your host and I'm convening a very [TS]

00:00:18   strange episode of our book club because [TS]

00:00:21   many of our usual book club participants [TS]

00:00:24   are not here when fleischmann didn't [TS]

00:00:28   read the book Glenn damn Warren didn't [TS]

00:00:32   read the book [TS]

00:00:34   damn it Randy called well know John [TS]

00:00:36   siracusa a bit of a slow reader John [TS]

00:00:39   siracusa here's who read the book of [TS]

00:00:42   course Scott McNulty read the book [TS]

00:00:44   because he suggested the book and we do [TS]

00:00:47   well apparently not i was gonna say we [TS]

00:00:49   do what Scott says but apparently I do [TS]

00:00:51   what Scott says I read this book Scott [TS]

00:00:54   thank you for being here with Jason [TS]

00:00:56   thank you for doing my bidding once [TS]

00:00:58   again [TS]

00:00:58   yep that's why obey and strangely enough [TS]

00:01:02   because we thought him actually [TS]

00:01:05   illiterate Steve let's also read the [TS]

00:01:08   book hi Steve [TS]

00:01:09   hello there how many how many books do [TS]

00:01:11   you read usually many are you are you an [TS]

00:01:15   avid reader that we just did and you [TS]

00:01:16   just downplay it [TS]

00:01:17   this makes 1 i'm so the first book you [TS]

00:01:22   read [TS]

00:01:23   yeah it was it was a kind of rough start [TS]

00:01:26   but now I I read when I get the chance [TS]

00:01:29   but there's usually I usually find [TS]

00:01:31   myself with so much media at my [TS]

00:01:33   fingertips and so many other options to [TS]

00:01:36   fill my time that I tend to not do so [TS]

00:01:39   much reading unless I find myself say in [TS]

00:01:41   a restaurant by myself or somewhere [TS]

00:01:43   actually have nothing better to do real [TS]

00:01:46   well you crap you travel so I would [TS]

00:01:47   imagine that I do that that happens that [TS]

00:01:50   you're in a recent so usually I i read [TS]

00:01:52   books in fits and starts and if I don't [TS]

00:01:53   finish it in one trip there's about you [TS]

00:01:55   know maybe a month gap and then I [TS]

00:01:57   finished the book and forgotten by that [TS]

00:01:58   time everything that was in the first [TS]

00:02:00   half of the book and of course I read it [TS]

00:02:02   in like one hour to an hour and a half [TS]

00:02:04   it increments because that's how long it [TS]

00:02:08   takes to [TS]

00:02:09   free meal when our meal when you're [TS]

00:02:11   sitting and reading sound so that would [TS]

00:02:12   be complicated if you forgot about this [TS]

00:02:14   book halfway through its a slow and [TS]

00:02:16   painful process [TS]

00:02:17   yeah yes this book this book is a [TS]

00:02:19   strange example so we're talking about [TS]

00:02:21   our book selection for this episode is [TS]

00:02:23   cloud atlas a novel it's not the cloud [TS]

00:02:26   atlas that's just like it's not you it's [TS]

00:02:28   not though you're rich mix remix not the [TS]

00:02:31   cloud atlas its cloud atlas obvious lie [TS]

00:02:34   i know by british author david mitchell [TS]

00:02:37   who is not the same david mitchell who [TS]

00:02:40   is in the comedy team [TS]

00:02:42   mitchell and webb even though same name [TS]

00:02:44   both British not the same guy as far as [TS]

00:02:47   i can tell and this is from 2004 and it [TS]

00:02:51   won some awards shortlisted for some [TS]

00:02:53   more awards but what's most interesting [TS]

00:02:54   about it perhaps in the in this yea year [TS]

00:02:58   2012 is that the Wachowskis and the guy [TS]

00:03:04   who edited or who directed run lola run [TS]

00:03:07   are collaborating on this blockbuster [TS]

00:03:11   Hollywood although it's funded by German [TS]

00:03:15   so for linear would I don't know [TS]

00:03:18   blockbuster movie that's coming out in [TS]

00:03:20   in October make the Wachowskis are [TS]

00:03:24   behind this [TS]

00:03:24   yeah and and Tom tight tight cover the [TS]

00:03:28   the run lola run guy so that when she [TS]

00:03:31   asks haven't ruined anything in awhile [TS]

00:03:32   and they decided they decide they're [TS]

00:03:34   gonna ruin this book in a great so stiff [TS]

00:03:37   so but we read it before that and as [TS]

00:03:39   Escott pointed out you want to read the [TS]

00:03:41   book before you every character in it is [TS]

00:03:44   just in your head is Tom Hanks just as a [TS]

00:03:47   shield against the destruction that will [TS]

00:03:49   undoubtedly be wrecked upon it by the [TS]

00:03:50   film crew and reading the book i have a [TS]

00:03:53   hard time [TS]

00:03:54   wha wrapping my head around how this [TS]

00:03:57   movie is going to work at all but yeah [TS]

00:04:00   yeah it's a strange it's a strange book [TS]

00:04:04   um so let's let's start there with the [TS]

00:04:09   structure this book this book is is a [TS]

00:04:11   series of interconnected stories and yes [TS]

00:04:15   let's fire off the soap spoiler horn [TS]

00:04:19   and we're going to talk about the [TS]

00:04:20   contents of the book spoilers contents [TS]

00:04:23   of the book could be considered spoil it [TS]

00:04:25   it's a series of these inner inner [TS]

00:04:27   walking stories right so there's there's [TS]

00:04:29   a story about a guy in like 1850 who's [TS]

00:04:32   on a ship in the Pacific Ocean and very [TS]

00:04:35   specific islands there's a story about a [TS]

00:04:39   British composer who is in Belgium as [TS]

00:04:45   the a- ensis that I pronounce that sure [TS]

00:04:50   sounds good why not he's the assistant [TS]

00:04:52   to a compete with heat finagles his way [TS]

00:04:55   into being an assistant to a famous [TS]

00:04:57   composer inside that story is a story in [TS]

00:05:02   the nineteen seventies in a fictional [TS]

00:05:03   Southern California city about a plucky [TS]

00:05:07   young journalist who is on the case of [TS]

00:05:09   corporate crime inside that story is a [TS]

00:05:13   story about a UH a vanity press [TS]

00:05:18   publisher in England who is runs afoul [TS]

00:05:22   of the family of one of his authors and [TS]

00:05:25   has to flee and he's accidentally [TS]

00:05:27   committed to an old age home by his [TS]

00:05:29   brother right [TS]

00:05:31   I'm trying to make sure I got all of [TS]

00:05:32   these at inside that one is a story [TS]

00:05:35   about a clone who is a genetically [TS]

00:05:40   engineered person who's been engineered [TS]

00:05:42   to basically be a waitress at a korean [TS]

00:05:44   mcdonalds except they put something in [TS]

00:05:47   her food that makes her fully aware and [TS]

00:05:51   smart instead of all of her other clones [TS]

00:05:54   who are not particularly intelligent [TS]

00:05:57   because they've been engineered that way [TS]

00:05:59   to just be happy as servers and then [TS]

00:06:02   inside that one at the core of this is a [TS]

00:06:06   story about a guy [TS]

00:06:08   Zachary who tom hanks seriously no i [TS]

00:06:13   don't i know i know it's crazy i will [TS]

00:06:15   afterward I looked up which I don't [TS]

00:06:18   think so he's not playing every [TS]

00:06:19   characters playing half like half of and [TS]

00:06:21   Jim Broadbent i think is playing with [TS]

00:06:22   her anyway [TS]

00:06:23   Zachary I was a resident of the big [TS]

00:06:26   island of hawaii in a post [TS]

00:06:29   apocalyptic civilization has completely [TS]

00:06:32   crashed and there's a sort of chaos and [TS]

00:06:35   barbarism on the island and their [TS]

00:06:38   visited by one of the last bastions of [TS]

00:06:40   civilization in the world there's a [TS]

00:06:41   visitor who comes and visits them and so [TS]

00:06:44   these these seemingly unrelated stories [TS]

00:06:47   are are chained together in this book [TS]

00:06:51   and what stranger is they're chained [TS]

00:06:52   together in this nesting configuration [TS]

00:06:54   where you read the first half of all [TS]

00:06:57   these stories going forward in time and [TS]

00:06:59   then the last story you read the whole [TS]

00:07:01   thing and then it backs you out and you [TS]

00:07:03   read the second half of all of the [TS]

00:07:05   stories going backward all the way to [TS]

00:07:07   the beginning it is absolutely crazy it [TS]

00:07:10   is crazy she turns out is actually kind [TS]

00:07:12   of a bad idea because the first couple [TS]

00:07:14   of segments are kind of slow going and [TS]

00:07:16   not quite as interesting as the middle [TS]

00:07:18   segment so that you get to that the last [TS]

00:07:20   two segments you get past the second the [TS]

00:07:22   recent at second half of the Luisa Rey [TS]

00:07:24   part and suddenly you're just like I'm [TS]

00:07:26   not sure everything went to tell what [TS]

00:07:28   about their to the new pocket of the [TS]

00:07:30   islands special yeah so I i think that I [TS]

00:07:33   having read the whole book I found it [TS]

00:07:36   fascinating that so there are these six [TS]

00:07:39   nested stories and they are [TS]

00:07:40   interconnected so the first story is a [TS]

00:07:42   journal that the main character in the [TS]

00:07:45   second story finds the first half of [TS]

00:07:47   historian has exactly and the second so [TS]

00:07:51   the main character in the second half of [TS]

00:07:53   the book is it the second story in the [TS]

00:07:55   book i should say it's written as a [TS]

00:07:57   series of letters and those letters are [TS]

00:08:00   to the character in the third story of [TS]

00:08:04   the book who is in this Luisa Rey [TS]

00:08:08   mystery which turns out to be a [TS]

00:08:12   manuscript yes that is submitted to the [TS]

00:08:16   vanity press publisher the vanity press [TS]

00:08:18   publisher who have initial Cavendish who [TS]

00:08:21   becomes a star in a movie [TS]

00:08:25   there's a movie based on his story based [TS]

00:08:27   on his story which is named for the [TS]

00:08:29   clone yes which screen for the clone and [TS]

00:08:32   then the the post-apocalyptic one [TS]

00:08:34   somehow the clone I think becomes like a [TS]

00:08:37   good [TS]

00:08:38   that the in the the clone stories told [TS]

00:08:40   us her interrogation by sort of a record [TS]

00:08:42   keeper and put on a hologram and I [TS]

00:08:45   hologram is shown by the the black class [TS]

00:08:48   representative of civilization visiting [TS]

00:08:50   the Big Island of Hawaii [TS]

00:08:52   the little hologram is shown to the [TS]

00:08:54   people there [TS]

00:08:57   I mean wow [TS]

00:09:01   right i mean you can't fault the the [TS]

00:09:03   author for being ambitious right it is [TS]

00:09:06   it is a crazy chain of events rolled [TS]

00:09:08   into a novel and it's very specifically [TS]

00:09:10   called I at least on my kindle it's [TS]

00:09:12   called cloud atlas colon a novel as if [TS]

00:09:14   to remind you you are actually reading a [TS]

00:09:16   novel [TS]

00:09:17   it's not just a short story collection [TS]

00:09:19   that ends maddeningly in the middle of [TS]

00:09:21   every story it's a novel [TS]

00:09:23   yeah and and i think it's interesting [TS]

00:09:25   that so the six stories are written in [TS]

00:09:28   very different styles as well [TS]

00:09:30   no you can't you don't get he doesn't [TS]

00:09:32   let you really rest at all because it [TS]

00:09:35   keeps changing not only all the [TS]

00:09:36   characters and storylines but how he is [TS]

00:09:38   writing them as well the first the first [TS]

00:09:41   one is written in the style of of of the [TS]

00:09:43   pros of the mid-nineteenth century which [TS]

00:09:46   is to say nearly unreadable in it is it [TS]

00:09:49   style it [TS]

00:09:50   yeah it's a tough tough going first 50 [TS]

00:09:53   pages or so which is when I I suggested [TS]

00:09:56   we read this book I i made sure to point [TS]

00:09:59   out to everyone [TS]

00:09:59   the first part is the most difficult I [TS]

00:10:03   think to really I gras which then makes [TS]

00:10:05   the last part the least satisfying [TS]

00:10:07   reason i think yes but I oddly enough I [TS]

00:10:11   I didn't think the first part i didn't [TS]

00:10:13   have that much trouble with the first [TS]

00:10:14   part which sort of shocked me because I [TS]

00:10:16   i recognized as i was reading it that [TS]

00:10:18   the language was a bit shall we say [TS]

00:10:20   Florida and a little stilted and and and [TS]

00:10:24   a lot of archaic words were in use and [TS]

00:10:26   but I i was kind of impressed with [TS]

00:10:30   myself because i realized i was reading [TS]

00:10:32   it hot [TS]

00:10:33   I know most of the school and then you [TS]

00:10:36   know I'd run across some mention of some [TS]

00:10:37   historical thing that happened and it [TS]

00:10:39   just happened to be something that I [TS]

00:10:40   randomly knew about so I think I kind of [TS]

00:10:43   locked into a greater appreciation of [TS]

00:10:45   that first portion i got a second part [TS]

00:10:47   and and because i guess i had trekked [TS]

00:10:49   through the first portion of it the sex [TS]

00:10:51   and second half of it actually rolled [TS]

00:10:53   even even quicker strangers like I'd [TS]

00:10:56   prime to myself and then having taken a [TS]

00:10:58   break and read through the easier stuff [TS]

00:10:59   in the middle i was ready to go back to [TS]

00:11:02   it and my mental muscle for that kind of [TS]

00:11:04   prose is the rest agree that's the great [TS]

00:11:07   cliff hanger where we discover that that [TS]

00:11:10   the the protagonist of that section has [TS]

00:11:12   been told that he has a brain worm that [TS]

00:11:15   can only be treated by his quack of a [TS]

00:11:18   doctor by giving him cocaine as far as i [TS]

00:11:21   can tell here have some more cocaine you [TS]

00:11:25   know it works [TS]

00:11:26   yeah yeah and then you left sort of [TS]

00:11:28   wondering is he going to die and it [TS]

00:11:30   turns out that the book we discover in [TS]

00:11:33   the next section the book has been torn [TS]

00:11:35   in half and he doesn't know where the [TS]

00:11:36   other half of the book is and only at [TS]

00:11:38   the end or do we discovered that it's I [TS]

00:11:40   didn't used to like prop up the bed so [TS]

00:11:43   that doesn't slant and he pulls it out [TS]

00:11:45   in the wedge where it is and yeah how [TS]

00:11:49   lucky for us he happened to look under [TS]

00:11:51   the bed and find that second half [TS]

00:11:53   yes it would have been a lopsided novel [TS]

00:11:56   if it lasts actually has found that I [TS]

00:11:58   never yes different dr timothy or 10 who [TS]

00:12:01   is he writing to 6 minutes 26 minutes i [TS]

00:12:04   couldn't find the other part of that [TS]

00:12:05   book I don't know what happened to that [TS]

00:12:08   fellow who had been given the cocaine [TS]

00:12:10   for the brain worm that anyway that life [TS]

00:12:13   is terrible goodbye help when you guys [TS]

00:12:14   got to the end of the first portion and [TS]

00:12:16   it just cut off in mid-sentence did you [TS]

00:12:18   go looking to see if maybe you had a [TS]

00:12:20   misprint you get kindle the conversions [TS]

00:12:22   right version CII was rolling around in [TS]

00:12:24   the back trying to find out of page 41 [TS]

00:12:26   ended up stuck in the wrong section of [TS]

00:12:28   the book i just made me laugh similar [TS]

00:12:30   experience I just thought it was a crazy [TS]

00:12:32   stunt by the by the writer and then of [TS]

00:12:35   course in a second when when when the [TS]

00:12:37   character in the second section [TS]

00:12:39   discovers this and is infuriated by the [TS]

00:12:41   fact that it ends in the middle of this [TS]

00:12:43   side bad laughs again that's I think one [TS]

00:12:47   of my favorite things about this book is [TS]

00:12:49   that it's so self-conscious and it keeps [TS]

00:12:51   making references to itself [TS]

00:12:52   oh yes like I i think in that's that [TS]

00:12:54   second section Frobisher actually says [TS]

00:12:57   the language doesn't ring true in the [TS]

00:12:59   journal yes so like he's aware that he's [TS]

00:13:02   only partially researched what [TS]

00:13:04   writing should sound like coming from [TS]

00:13:05   1850 he doesn't believe that that it may [TS]

00:13:08   even not even be true right i mean [TS]

00:13:11   there's a question throughout about all [TS]

00:13:13   I mean about accuracy because in the eye [TS]

00:13:18   in the section about uh saw me the the [TS]

00:13:22   clone you know she's not seeing the [TS]

00:13:25   reality of Timothy Cavendish's life and [TS]

00:13:28   his being committed to the home and [TS]

00:13:29   escaping in a wacky adventures sequence [TS]

00:13:33   that will be perfect for the movie she's [TS]

00:13:36   watching the movie about it right so [TS]

00:13:38   it's it's not as if the reality is [TS]

00:13:40   necessarily entirely collect connected [TS]

00:13:42   and they these stories i had had that [TS]

00:13:44   moment of wondering whether the stories [TS]

00:13:45   that we are looking at you know are on [TS]

00:13:48   one level we want to believe that [TS]

00:13:49   they're all connected and we're watching [TS]

00:13:50   in some ways like reincarnation of all [TS]

00:13:53   these people throughout history on [TS]

00:13:54   another level it sort of suggesting that [TS]

00:13:56   we're watching a stack of all most [TS]

00:13:58   unreliable narrators going so by the [TS]

00:14:01   time we get to 22 last one I mean we've [TS]

00:14:05   gone through so many different [TS]

00:14:06   mediations you know hologram and movie [TS]

00:14:09   based on a book and a novel based on [TS]

00:14:11   real events ? you know and then and then [TS]

00:14:15   the letters and then this crazy journal [TS]

00:14:16   that you've gotta wonder whether this is [TS]

00:14:18   all you know is that is any of this real [TS]

00:14:21   you know or or not it's crazy pretty [TS]

00:14:28   funny [TS]

00:14:28   look of course as the readers were aware [TS]

00:14:30   that all these people are are coming [TS]

00:14:32   from the pen of David Mitchell so I just [TS]

00:14:34   thought it was very endearing that he [TS]

00:14:37   chose to head off his critics at the [TS]

00:14:39   past by it openly stating that the [TS]

00:14:41   language is wrong in the Ewing journal [TS]

00:14:43   and I Timothy Cavendish calls the [TS]

00:14:45   writing in the Luisa Rey book arts leaf [TS]

00:14:47   parsley clever at one point right so of [TS]

00:14:50   course he's referring his own writing in [TS]

00:14:51   that section that's quite funny and he [TS]

00:14:54   even even at has an answer for you know [TS]

00:14:58   that the the fact that you could [TS]

00:15:00   reasonably say well that Timothy [TS]

00:15:02   Cavender section is basically one flew [TS]

00:15:05   over the cuckoo's nest with an old guy [TS]

00:15:06   right or the UH sonmi 451 section is [TS]

00:15:10   basically just every seventies dystopian [TS]

00:15:12   flicks right-click all mixed together [TS]

00:15:14   but then he goes through this this this [TS]

00:15:17   long long but it goes through like half [TS]

00:15:19   a paragraph saying that he says that the [TS]

00:15:22   ghost of Sir Felix Finch wines but it's [TS]

00:15:25   been done a hundred times before as if [TS]

00:15:27   there could be anything not done a [TS]

00:15:29   hundred thousand times between [TS]

00:15:30   Aristophanes and andrew void Webber as [TS]

00:15:33   if art is the what not the how so he's [TS]

00:15:37   actually coming out and saying you know [TS]

00:15:39   it's that it's the how here right [TS]

00:15:41   it doesn't really matter that I've [TS]

00:15:42   recycled 20 different stories from you [TS]

00:15:46   know from the past the point is that [TS]

00:15:48   that we're getting there in interesting [TS]

00:15:51   and different way [TS]

00:15:51   yeah yeah I I've read a lot of different [TS]

00:15:54   books in different styles and I don't [TS]

00:15:57   recall ever reading something that was [TS]

00:15:59   as audacious is this as a trying to [TS]

00:16:02   connect these totally different [TS]

00:16:04   completely different genres completely [TS]

00:16:06   different timeframes having them connect [TS]

00:16:08   in a bunch of different ways and then [TS]

00:16:11   commenting on itself as it goes it's you [TS]

00:16:13   know it's a Scottish it have you did [TS]

00:16:18   this call to mind other things that [TS]

00:16:19   you've read i know that you have booked [TS]

00:16:21   amnesia but I i do have a often have [TS]

00:16:25   booked amnesia but i've read so this is [TS]

00:16:27   in the kind of the school of a [TS]

00:16:31   postmodernism i suppose in that it is a [TS]

00:16:34   very cognizant of its own story telling [TS]

00:16:38   and structure and it's a pastiche of a [TS]

00:16:41   variety of different stories like Steve [TS]

00:16:43   was saying and so one of the ways that [TS]

00:16:45   you know there's this whole school of [TS]

00:16:47   thought literature that there's nothing [TS]

00:16:49   new in under the Sun so you can just [TS]

00:16:51   kind of take the already existing [TS]

00:16:53   components and reconfigure them and the [TS]

00:16:56   only way to make art is to basically [TS]

00:16:58   remix other things that people have done [TS]

00:16:59   so that is what I think that he is [TS]

00:17:02   trying to do here so i cannot think of [TS]

00:17:05   any particular novels that do it as far [TS]

00:17:09   as he has tried tried to take it whether [TS]

00:17:13   and so that leads me two of my own [TS]

00:17:15   question for both of you so he is trying [TS]

00:17:17   this we can agree that it's a very [TS]

00:17:19   ambitious novel and I wonder as both of [TS]

00:17:23   you as readers did it work for you or [TS]

00:17:25   did you think you were he was spending [TS]

00:17:28   too much time with like you know [TS]

00:17:30   technical wizardry and kind of trying to [TS]

00:17:33   make it work as opposed to telling a [TS]

00:17:36   compelling story or six compelling [TS]

00:17:38   stories about us you know uh I think [TS]

00:17:41   they work to to varying degrees [TS]

00:17:43   I actually felt like you know some of [TS]

00:17:47   the stories i hope i thought were really [TS]

00:17:49   excellently done and others i found less [TS]

00:17:52   compelling I mean I honestly found that [TS]

00:17:54   that that first story not particularly [TS]

00:17:58   interesting it got there were there are [TS]

00:18:00   some interesting moments i think the [TS]

00:18:01   second half was more interesting than [TS]

00:18:02   the first but I you know I really liked [TS]

00:18:07   the Luisa Rey section I'm I kind of got [TS]

00:18:12   into the the the composer story after a [TS]

00:18:16   while and realizing i was reading a 20 i [TS]

00:18:19   almost like a Fitzgerald kind of this [TS]

00:18:22   this is a miserable human being that i'm [TS]

00:18:25   reading a story of and when I realized [TS]

00:18:28   that I wasn't really supposed to like [TS]

00:18:29   him and he does a series of terrible [TS]

00:18:32   things and it reminded me a lot of [TS]

00:18:34   Sorrows of Young Harris did you know [TS]

00:18:36   yeah yeah i was very reminiscent that [TS]

00:18:40   particularly in the second half when he [TS]

00:18:41   you know he meets his demise of his own [TS]

00:18:43   yes very romantic about the whole thing [TS]

00:18:46   and his oldest is a his epic dissing by [TS]

00:18:49   the girl yes daughter of the composer [TS]

00:18:52   yeah yeah i do so i ended up when I [TS]

00:18:54   realized what I was seeing there and [TS]

00:18:56   almost like when I realized what the [TS]

00:18:57   template was and it's in the template is [TS]

00:19:00   no I get it I I see what's going on here [TS]

00:19:02   I you know but the loser a mystery that [TS]

00:19:05   but you know breezy 70 is almost you [TS]

00:19:09   know it's almost like a I mean there are [TS]

00:19:11   plenty of examples of that seventies [TS]

00:19:13   crime you know [TS]

00:19:14   plucky plucky journalist detective thing [TS]

00:19:17   I that was really enjoyable that was a [TS]

00:19:19   lot of fun [TS]

00:19:21   the Cavendish thing was not it was ok [TS]

00:19:24   this on me section i really liked and [TS]

00:19:28   the and the the Zachary section parts of [TS]

00:19:31   it were good but I felt like it went on [TS]

00:19:33   too long it didn't get cut in half like [TS]

00:19:35   the others maybe that was one of the [TS]

00:19:36   reasons why I felt like I sort of scene [TS]

00:19:37   apocalyptic I mean it was almost like [TS]

00:19:40   something out of Paolo Bacigalupi except [TS]

00:19:43   not and I think not [TS]

00:19:44   not as good as that I i was reminded of [TS]

00:19:48   Paolo Bacigalupi as i read that [TS]

00:19:50   yeah yeah i mean it's it's post-op echo [TS]

00:19:53   about the apocalypse post-apocalyptic [TS]

00:19:55   thing right I gotta read some of his [TS]

00:19:58   books so that I just have the [TS]

00:20:00   opportunity to say is not a budget let's [TS]

00:20:01   move on [TS]

00:20:02   yeah oh yeah but the loop electrical is [TS]

00:20:04   fun to say but you're gonna be even [TS]

00:20:05   Mitchell Mitchell david mitchell [TS]

00:20:07   mitchell you so so I guess [TS]

00:20:10   Scott asked to answer your question uh [TS]

00:20:12   you know I think it's a mixed bag i [TS]

00:20:14   think there's some stories that i really [TS]

00:20:15   liked another stories that were were [TS]

00:20:17   okay and once I realized with the [TS]

00:20:18   premise was I really was excited when I [TS]

00:20:22   got to this on me story i was excited to [TS]

00:20:24   know that I had the rest of the Luisa [TS]

00:20:27   Rey mystery coming up after I got [TS]

00:20:29   through Timothy Cavendish right it's and [TS]

00:20:32   turns out the Timothy Cavendish and is [TS]

00:20:34   also a lot of fun because there is a [TS]

00:20:35   whole you know escape from the old age [TS]

00:20:37   home plot that happens that's actually [TS]

00:20:41   i'm using to I mean I i should say we [TS]

00:20:44   can make the sound like a ponderous you [TS]

00:20:46   know just no fun [TS]

00:20:48   that's very serious from many [TS]

00:20:50   experimental postmodern themes and but [TS]

00:20:52   you know there's there's like a you know [TS]

00:20:54   a car crash at a nuclear reactor [TS]

00:20:57   that's going to blow up and kill [TS]

00:20:58   everybody and there's like a old people [TS]

00:21:01   escaped from the old age home by lying [TS]

00:21:03   and locking people in that in you know [TS]

00:21:06   mean nurse ratched types and in rooms [TS]

00:21:09   and I mean there's a lot of fun [TS]

00:21:11   cookie stuff in here too it's not all [TS]

00:21:14   kind of no fun and and just work and I [TS]

00:21:17   think you can read it you can totally [TS]

00:21:18   read this book without you know [TS]

00:21:20   pondering all the different connections [TS]

00:21:22   and just read it as kind of six [TS]

00:21:23   interlocking stories that the author has [TS]

00:21:26   chosen to tell for some reason together [TS]

00:21:28   we don't know what ponder about you know [TS]

00:21:31   why the yes-mo music keeps coming up all [TS]

00:21:35   right you know why the number six keeps [TS]

00:21:36   going around or what [TS]

00:21:38   which character is the supposedly the [TS]

00:21:40   same character throughout the different [TS]

00:21:42   stories you just read it for the fun as [TS]

00:21:44   long as you get past the first part [TS]

00:21:46   didn't you you're good to go hard for me [TS]

00:21:51   as it as a collection of short stories I [TS]

00:21:53   liked it a lot [TS]

00:21:54   I actually I think I pretty much liked [TS]

00:21:57   every section 22 varying degrees but I [TS]

00:21:59   didn't really find one that I just [TS]

00:22:01   absolutely hated but as far as the whole [TS]

00:22:06   interlocking thread and the you know [TS]

00:22:08   that the various characters and the [TS]

00:22:10   souls you know drifting through time and [TS]

00:22:12   space like clouds that to me didn't work [TS]

00:22:16   as well yeah I thought it was a lie i [TS]

00:22:18   thought it was very clever [TS]

00:22:20   I mean you can't really read this [TS]

00:22:21   without coming away with that was [TS]

00:22:22   extremely clever and it was neat the way [TS]

00:22:25   it all fit together and i enjoyed you [TS]

00:22:27   know trying to pick out which character [TS]

00:22:28   was which but when I got to the end and [TS]

00:22:31   is as I got closer and closer to the end [TS]

00:22:33   and I was taking off the second half of [TS]

00:22:34   these stories i kept thinking well at [TS]

00:22:36   some point the purpose for this [TS]

00:22:38   character being the same throughout all [TS]

00:22:40   these times is going to become clear and [TS]

00:22:42   there's going to be some big revelation [TS]

00:22:44   ah and when I got to the end it turned [TS]

00:22:47   out that the only thing i could really [TS]

00:22:49   gather in the last couple of pages was i [TS]

00:22:52   just logged through a whole lot of text [TS]

00:22:54   for what basically amounts to be [TS]

00:22:56   excellent to each other [TS]

00:22:57   I mean today at the great revelation is [TS]

00:23:00   the great revelation is that Adam Ewing [TS]

00:23:02   decides that he's going to become a nap [TS]

00:23:04   and abolitionist and of course with [TS]

00:23:06   themes throughout of you know of [TS]

00:23:08   eliminating variables and right but you [TS]

00:23:14   know so what they're saying it to right [TS]

00:23:18   we're all deeply and we're going to be [TS]

00:23:20   here again and again and so you [TS]

00:23:21   shouldn't enslave other people man [TS]

00:23:25   right but you know it was it was a neat [TS]

00:23:27   way to link the stories together i'm not [TS]

00:23:29   sure it really was that much better [TS]

00:23:31   having been linked other than you know [TS]

00:23:34   the sort of experience of having seen [TS]

00:23:36   him do that and kind of that was pretty [TS]

00:23:37   cool what you did there but I don't [TS]

00:23:39   think it really improved the stories in [TS]

00:23:41   any great way because maybe I'm just too [TS]

00:23:44   dense to to really catch the the [TS]

00:23:46   overarching themes here but you have to [TS]

00:23:48   me it was it almost don't want it when [TS]

00:23:51   curry because it wasn't that bad but a [TS]

00:23:53   little bit of that yeah i think it was [TS]

00:23:55   it was on the the border you could see [TS]

00:23:59   wang curry from where it was blackery [TS]

00:24:03   was visible in the distance [TS]

00:24:05   exactly it was it was a well done i [TS]

00:24:08   think if if if David Mitchell were not [TS]

00:24:10   as good a writer as he was as he is [TS]

00:24:14   cause he's not dead as far as i know [TS]

00:24:16   this book would be awful [TS]

00:24:18   I i think it is i I really really [TS]

00:24:22   enjoyed it and I like the mostly because [TS]

00:24:24   I like books and authors who are very [TS]

00:24:26   conscious of the fact that they're [TS]

00:24:28   writing a book and I like I wasn't [TS]

00:24:31   english major so I like slightly [TS]

00:24:33   pretentious kinds of that uh huh [TS]

00:24:35   thanks and you know you can you can [TS]

00:24:37   imagine a lot of papers being written [TS]

00:24:40   about the cloud atlas and the various [TS]

00:24:42   linking between all the stories and what [TS]

00:24:45   the characters are and who they [TS]

00:24:47   represent and you know what [TS]

00:24:49   what the theme throughout each story are [TS]

00:24:51   so kind of spoke to my frustrated [TS]

00:24:54   English majors yeah I i agree you know [TS]

00:24:57   the artifice is is visible and I'm not [TS]

00:25:01   sure all of it I mean I so I love the TV [TS]

00:25:04   show Lost right and there are things [TS]

00:25:05   about lost that were brilliant and their [TS]

00:25:07   things about loss that were painful and [TS]

00:25:09   that's what i was thinking about i was [TS]

00:25:10   reading this book is like some of the [TS]

00:25:11   connections they make because they're in [TS]

00:25:13   lost you always have these people these [TS]

00:25:14   crosses where you know [TS]

00:25:16   turns out they knew somebody who knew [TS]

00:25:18   that the other character when they [TS]

00:25:20   before they got to the island right and [TS]

00:25:22   in this there there's that same thing [TS]

00:25:23   for these coincidences or are they [TS]

00:25:26   and some of them i actually really loved [TS]

00:25:29   and others i just went yeah okay you [TS]

00:25:32   know you yet you gotta do it that's what [TS]

00:25:34   this book is so you're gonna make the [TS]

00:25:36   connection but like the the isle of [TS]

00:25:38   lewis array trying to find the cloud [TS]

00:25:42   atlas record that was composed by the [TS]

00:25:45   guy in the previous story that was very [TS]

00:25:47   lost I i love had them that music was [TS]

00:25:51   playing in the that's the music plays in [TS]

00:25:54   the cafe of son--my oh you know I don't [TS]

00:25:58   think I even noticed that when she also [TS]

00:26:00   passes by the prophetess as she's [TS]

00:26:02   heading towards six Smith's boat moored [TS]

00:26:05   in the harbor [TS]

00:26:06   yes the adam ewing ship so I mean that [TS]

00:26:08   all that stuff is cool [TS]

00:26:09   yeah I mean I so I like that and I like [TS]

00:26:11   the I like to the the sextet and of [TS]

00:26:14   course the sex Ted is described as being [TS]

00:26:16   these six different pieces for six [TS]

00:26:18   different instruments that are then [TS]

00:26:19   played in these interlocking things in [TS]

00:26:21   that they started and then made and he's [TS]

00:26:24   describing the structure of the book [TS]

00:26:25   right at rightlook is the Cloud Atlas [TS]

00:26:27   sextet that it and then and and the [TS]

00:26:30   characters say I this music sounds [TS]

00:26:31   familiar to me and that's the whole idea [TS]

00:26:33   is that the music and the stories are [TS]

00:26:34   repeating in these different timeframes [TS]

00:26:36   and you know i like that [TS]

00:26:38   yeah the bi have a comment shaped [TS]

00:26:41   birthmark felt started to feel rather [TS]

00:26:43   obligatory like yeah we're all [TS]

00:26:46   resurrected later another buddies man [TS]

00:26:48   that was that one didn't work so well [TS]

00:26:51   for me I think I'll understand although [TS]

00:26:53   at least there wasn't one of those like [TS]

00:26:54   we were together 50 years ago and I love [TS]

00:26:58   remains intact now in new bodies and [TS]

00:27:00   know that there's none of that which is [TS]

00:27:02   good but still so some of it works for [TS]

00:27:05   me I guess is what I'm saying and some [TS]

00:27:07   of it I was like yeah ok this is what [TS]

00:27:08   you're trying to do and it didn't give [TS]

00:27:10   me that that that kind of chill as when [TS]

00:27:12   Luisa Rey goes into the record store and [TS]

00:27:15   and the music is playing right i mean a [TS]

00:27:17   lot of that stuff actually to me would [TS]

00:27:18   have been almost unbearable except for [TS]

00:27:20   the fact that he clearly has good humor [TS]

00:27:22   about the whole thing [TS]

00:27:23   and some of the other mentions of the [TS]

00:27:25   sort of self-conscious references the [TS]

00:27:26   previous chapters but also in that part [TS]

00:27:29   where where he's where the sextet is [TS]

00:27:33   being described a nice piece talking [TS]

00:27:34   about the structure of it is identical [TS]

00:27:36   to the structure of the book he actually [TS]

00:27:38   says revolutionary or gimmicky can't [TS]

00:27:41   know until it's finished and by then [TS]

00:27:42   it'll be too late [TS]

00:27:45   yeah it turns out in the end that yeah I [TS]

00:27:47   was giving you but it because he noted [TS]

00:27:50   that it's i'm i'm mad i'm inclined to [TS]

00:27:52   give them a little bit of a path is [TS]

00:27:54   enjoyable to listen to [TS]

00:27:55   although the gimmick i have to say i am [TS]

00:27:58   highlighted more passages from this book [TS]

00:28:00   that I've done any book that i've ever [TS]

00:28:02   read on the kindle I'm that must count [TS]

00:28:04   for something so well no i mean because [TS]

00:28:06   i kept the scene was it because you were [TS]

00:28:09   searching for meaning and you kept [TS]

00:28:10   thinking you would be able to go back [TS]

00:28:11   and piece it all together know it was [TS]

00:28:12   really more that this is one of those [TS]

00:28:14   books where you can see the author being [TS]

00:28:16   clever and you want two models down so [TS]

00:28:18   that you can sail ever let later [TS]

00:28:20   here are some clever things so so I'm [TS]

00:28:23   looking at my notes now I was amused by [TS]

00:28:25   when in the totalitarian future they [TS]

00:28:29   make reference to two optimists [TS]

00:28:31   translated from the late english or well [TS]

00:28:33   and Huxley the implication being that in [TS]

00:28:36   this core pakka see that is South Korea [TS]

00:28:39   in the future or well and Huxley are [TS]

00:28:42   considered great optimist that they they [TS]

00:28:44   predicted that while the society that we [TS]

00:28:47   live in would come to pass when most [TS]

00:28:49   people didn't like sci-fi all of the [TS]

00:28:54   apocalyptic sci-fi authors being a [TS]

00:28:55   applauded by the people who manage the [TS]

00:28:58   apocalypse [TS]

00:28:59   thank you you got us right yeah that's [TS]

00:29:01   as well as lots of cloud imagery the [TS]

00:29:05   cloud imagery maybe roll my eyes a [TS]

00:29:06   little bit i watch the clouds and [TS]

00:29:10   athlete before triac oh yeah it's very [TS]

00:29:12   meaning the books called cloud atlas [TS]

00:29:14   there's mean issues clouds on every page [TS]

00:29:16   gradually moving to the center of the [TS]

00:29:17   book you cannot even get that did you [TS]

00:29:19   know I'll see in the in the text version [TS]

00:29:22   maybe this is the extra bonus for for [TS]

00:29:24   buying the alt text version is in the [TS]

00:29:27   adam ewing section there are clouds on [TS]

00:29:29   the far side of each page so you know to [TS]

00:29:32   the left of the left facing pages and [TS]

00:29:34   the right of the right pages and then in [TS]

00:29:36   each section [TS]

00:29:37   those clouds gradually move towards the [TS]

00:29:39   center for out that's grace and then [TS]

00:29:42   after the solutions crossing section [TS]

00:29:44   they either have crossed and removing [TS]

00:29:46   the other way or they're going back in [TS]

00:29:48   the other direction it's hard to say oh [TS]

00:29:49   so you know there you go wow [TS]

00:29:51   little more little more pretentious [TS]

00:29:54   mystery so we talk about commenting on [TS]

00:29:58   things also I you know as many stories i [TS]

00:30:00   think that Scott loves this is also a [TS]

00:30:02   story about storytelling and about how [TS]

00:30:06   you know what's reality in which story [TS]

00:30:10   is the real story and though the line [TS]

00:30:12   that i highlighted that I really liked [TS]

00:30:13   is when Sonny is snuck into this movie [TS]

00:30:18   theater because movies or as they call [TS]

00:30:20   them disney's have basically been [TS]

00:30:21   outlawed because it's on meez period all [TS]

00:30:24   of the proper all of our proper noun [TS]

00:30:26   brand names have replaced the regular [TS]

00:30:29   nouns and brand names everything is a [TS]

00:30:31   brand name now by the generic word is [TS]

00:30:34   that what we consider a brand name and [TS]

00:30:36   they're no longer capitalized they're [TS]

00:30:38   not a proper nouns know they're just [TS]

00:30:39   regular the word for that Disney is a [TS]

00:30:41   movie is now at disney hilarious thing [TS]

00:30:43   is that it that includes all movies [TS]

00:30:45   including apparently tentacle porn yes [TS]

00:30:47   that's a distance is a sequence which [TS]

00:30:49   suggests what is it that the the student [TS]

00:30:52   that Scott charge of some sami 451 is [TS]

00:30:55   watching believe the term is octopus [TS]

00:30:57   rapine his skirt yeah yeah she's [TS]

00:31:01   horrified i think that that's the first [TS]

00:31:03   disney she oversees right and it's a [TS]

00:31:05   disney yeah yeah so this is the part [TS]

00:31:07   that I wouldn't be that that a that I [TS]

00:31:09   think I mean this is what he's he's [TS]

00:31:12   getting at this is other than be [TS]

00:31:13   excellent to each other i think this is [TS]

00:31:15   this is really what he's getting out [TS]

00:31:16   which is she's watching this giants road [TS]

00:31:18   the screen lit by sunlight capture [TS]

00:31:20   through a lens when your grandfather's [TS]

00:31:21   grandfather was kicking in his room time [TS]

00:31:24   is the speed at which the past decays [TS]

00:31:26   but disney's enable a prefect [TS]

00:31:27   resurrection those since fallen [TS]

00:31:29   buildings those long eroded faces your [TS]

00:31:31   present not we is the true illusion they [TS]

00:31:35   seem to say so you know that there is [TS]

00:31:37   this throughout in all these sections [TS]

00:31:39   there's this idea of what is some [TS]

00:31:42   characters in our conversations about so [TS]

00:31:43   what is real is the future real and just [TS]

00:31:46   waiting to happen or is it not real you [TS]

00:31:48   know is the past what [TS]

00:31:50   what's real and the future isn't there's [TS]

00:31:51   a whole conversation about how there's [TS]

00:31:54   virtual pass and virtual futures and [TS]

00:31:56   then I don't blame you one but you can [TS]

00:31:59   never tell which one it is [TS]

00:32:00   so there's a lot of that I like that I [TS]

00:32:02   thought that was really interesting [TS]

00:32:03   because the beauty of that is that's the [TS]

00:32:04   guy on the plane strap with c4 and just [TS]

00:32:06   after having right he thought he [TS]

00:32:08   exploded he figures it all out and then [TS]

00:32:10   the plane blows up [TS]

00:32:11   it's sort of like the young girl in the [TS]

00:32:13   cafe and rickmansworth who comes up with [TS]

00:32:15   the solution to everybody be nice yes [TS]

00:32:17   they're just before the Earth's blown up [TS]

00:32:19   by the Vogon to hear ya [TS]

00:32:20   and then it also in that section uh with [TS]

00:32:23   some me it's it's kind of it's very sad [TS]

00:32:27   because all these clones are are made so [TS]

00:32:30   that they can be servers and they are in [TS]

00:32:32   life to register and they worked for 12 [TS]

00:32:35   years and they work for 12 years and [TS]

00:32:37   they worship whatever the papasan [TS]

00:32:40   papasan copy icon and so he's like an [TS]

00:32:43   evil ronald mcdonald is how i was [TS]

00:32:45   surfing ronald mcdonald he kept me and [TS]

00:32:47   making me think of a beard papa the [TS]

00:32:50   cream puffs free huh [TS]

00:32:51   I but i assume that is not they'd [TS]

00:32:54   probably not please I would hope so [TS]

00:32:57   because after 12 years there they get to [TS]

00:32:58   go to Hawaii to retire but Hawaii is [TS]

00:33:01   actually a boat that's been converted [TS]

00:33:03   into a huge killing floor in there they [TS]

00:33:05   execute them and and butchery and then [TS]

00:33:07   turn them into protein matter that goes [TS]

00:33:09   back into the pop song factory [TS]

00:33:11   yeah and so they could serve their the [TS]

00:33:13   themselves basically I'm to their [TS]

00:33:14   customers [TS]

00:33:15   yeah that's very sad and it's kind of [TS]

00:33:17   playing with the their perception of [TS]

00:33:19   reality they think they happily go into [TS]

00:33:21   this this killing floor because they [TS]

00:33:23   think oh I'm boarding a plane to go to [TS]

00:33:24   Hawaii so i can retire because I've [TS]

00:33:27   heard it through this you know 20 hours [TS]

00:33:29   a day of grueling work and eating my [TS]

00:33:31   soap or whatever it is the right because [TS]

00:33:33   they the the clones have been engineered [TS]

00:33:35   to not eat human food so they have to [TS]

00:33:37   eat this soap stuff and if they don't [TS]

00:33:39   get it they shut down and they die and [TS]

00:33:41   so it's there it's in everyone of these [TS]

00:33:43   stories there's oppression and there's [TS]

00:33:44   somebody who's extracting this method of [TS]

00:33:46   control over somebody who's weaker and [TS]

00:33:48   then with the with the clones it's this [TS]

00:33:50   soap that that without the soap even [TS]

00:33:52   even sewn me the the fully functional [TS]

00:33:55   intelligent one she still has to eat so [TS]

00:33:57   that's all she can eat [TS]

00:33:59   it's crazy papasan green is fabric and [TS]

00:34:02   yeah [TS]

00:34:03   whatever the the thing right in that [TS]

00:34:06   world is that the only the servers who [TS]

00:34:09   don't know would be the ones who care [TS]

00:34:11   because the customers they wouldn't care [TS]

00:34:12   now they don't they treat the servers [TS]

00:34:14   like their animals anyway so it wouldn't [TS]

00:34:17   matter to them if they were eating their [TS]

00:34:19   protein or not who cares prey and [TS]

00:34:21   predators is another big subject and I [TS]

00:34:23   I've got a highlighted true intellectual [TS]

00:34:26   courage is to dispense with these fig [TS]

00:34:28   leaves and admit all people are [TS]

00:34:29   predatory but white predators with our [TS]

00:34:31   deadly duet of disease Dustin firearms [TS]

00:34:33   are examples of productivity par [TS]

00:34:35   excellence and what of it this is the [TS]

00:34:37   quote the quack doctor who actually is [TS]

00:34:39   just a pro who preys on the on the on [TS]

00:34:43   the the the guy on the on the ship and [TS]

00:34:46   he observes all this racism and all of [TS]

00:34:49   these other horrible things that [TS]

00:34:52   happened to the to the the moriori which [TS]

00:34:55   of the Pacific Islanders that are [TS]

00:34:56   destroyed by the Mallory Islanders and [TS]

00:34:58   the and then the white men are [TS]

00:35:01   destroying the civilizations and this [TS]

00:35:03   guy is preying on on the interviewing [TS]

00:35:06   yeah Adam Ewing right so he's preying on [TS]

00:35:08   adam ewing but he has this moment of [TS]

00:35:10   clarity that really spells out in the [TS]

00:35:12   last section of this book what is [TS]

00:35:14   happening in all of these things in the [TS]

00:35:15   book and he's got it it's the Guns Germs [TS]

00:35:17   and Steel thing it's like you know [TS]

00:35:19   everybody's predator predator here and [TS]

00:35:22   you guys are saying how the white men [TS]

00:35:23   are bringing civilization to everybody [TS]

00:35:25   else here but that's not that's not [TS]

00:35:26   what's happening at all you know this is [TS]

00:35:28   just people and you're praying too and [TS]

00:35:31   he's got this very clear vision that is [TS]

00:35:35   right right it's unfortunately this [TS]

00:35:36   awful person who's done these awful [TS]

00:35:38   things as he's leaving this guy for dead [TS]

00:35:41   is saying this that's something that's [TS]

00:35:44   completely clear and that we've seen [TS]

00:35:45   happening all the way into the future [TS]

00:35:47   sort of but that that there's the [TS]

00:35:49   problem that I had with that whole [TS]

00:35:50   thread was that little the whole thread [TS]

00:35:52   through time is that there's not really [TS]

00:35:54   a lot of consistency and I would have [TS]

00:35:56   expected when I sat down and thought [TS]

00:35:57   okay well let's let's see here Adam [TS]

00:36:00   Ewing at the end or the beginning as it [TS]

00:36:02   were decides that he's going to be an [TS]

00:36:04   abolitionist so all of the future [TS]

00:36:06   characters that are him should also be [TS]

00:36:08   you know Crusaders against slavery or or [TS]

00:36:11   predatory practices or whatever [TS]

00:36:13   and yet the next guy is more or less a [TS]

00:36:15   self-absorbed dirtbag who sponges off of [TS]

00:36:19   the composer's you know book collection [TS]

00:36:21   right Bob you know an end has gambling [TS]

00:36:25   debts and all this other stuff and more [TS]

00:36:27   or less dies and ignominy and then cool [TS]

00:36:30   Luisa Rey kinda fits that mold but [TS]

00:36:32   Cavendish is more or less and nobody [TS]

00:36:34   right eye is on me is again a bit of a [TS]

00:36:38   freedom fighter and then Zachary yeah [TS]

00:36:42   but it's that's not him it's a OS the [TS]

00:36:44   woman Aaron is your interesting is the [TS]

00:36:46   incarnation in that one [TS]

00:36:47   yeah and she fits the mold but so you [TS]

00:36:50   know I I kept looking for different [TS]

00:36:52   places where there were clear [TS]

00:36:55   similarities between all six characters [TS]

00:36:57   and I couldn't find one and since it's a [TS]

00:37:01   alternating if you if you look at the [TS]

00:37:04   six stories right the first guy is a [TS]

00:37:06   crusader the second guy is a jerk [TS]

00:37:10   the right Louisa raise a crusader Tim [TS]

00:37:12   Cavendish is basically a jerk and Sony [TS]

00:37:15   is a crusader and then the last one I [TS]

00:37:17   guess is a crusader for sure but she's [TS]

00:37:18   the death the middle right right right [TS]

00:37:20   you'd expect her to go Crusader to jerk [TS]

00:37:22   the Crusader well she is she is visiting [TS]

00:37:24   the natives right that's true and trying [TS]

00:37:27   to save sort of trying to save you know [TS]

00:37:30   civilization and all that so we're [TS]

00:37:32   trying to save our own civilization [TS]

00:37:33   socially yeah she's doing tested in the [TS]

00:37:36   right technology that she thinks is [TS]

00:37:37   hidden up in that the up at the top of [TS]

00:37:40   Mauna Kea yeah yeah so so one of the [TS]

00:37:42   things I like about about that line I [TS]

00:37:45   gave earlier the of about the all people [TS]

00:37:47   are predatory is that it's followed up [TS]

00:37:49   by an observation that is a purely [TS]

00:37:53   predatory world will consume itself said [TS]

00:37:57   in 1850 by our first and last character [TS]

00:38:00   and that that was much more resonant [TS]

00:38:05   having seen it happen right [TS]

00:38:07   having us literally walked through all [TS]

00:38:09   the way to the future and seen the [TS]

00:38:12   purely predatory world completely [TS]

00:38:14   consumed itself to the point that [TS]

00:38:16   civilization is completely destroyed and [TS]

00:38:17   that was something I thought was [TS]

00:38:19   effective about the story he was trying [TS]

00:38:21   to tell and the way he told it is that [TS]

00:38:23   he literally walked us to the end of [TS]

00:38:25   time [TS]

00:38:26   and then brought us back to something we [TS]

00:38:29   would consider more reality because it's [TS]

00:38:32   locked in the past to make that [TS]

00:38:34   observation of like that you know now [TS]

00:38:36   how do you think about this story is [TS]

00:38:37   knowing where everything ends up which [TS]

00:38:39   is there's no civilization and it's just [TS]

00:38:41   savagery and it's pretty bleak too [TS]

00:38:43   because even having destroyed the planet [TS]

00:38:46   there's still predatory mr. they don't [TS]

00:38:49   you still gotta come on don't be [TS]

00:38:50   betraying on the weaker right and you [TS]

00:38:52   got that interesting parallel between [TS]

00:38:53   the kona and the valley dwellers I guess [TS]

00:38:56   they are and the moriori and the Madame [TS]

00:38:59   Mallory right it's this again you know [TS]

00:39:01   they've got the people that refuse to [TS]

00:39:03   defend themselves right and who got [TS]

00:39:05   there a little culture and they've got [TS]

00:39:06   the little place where they make all the [TS]

00:39:07   drawings down that nobody knows about [TS]

00:39:08   right there killed off by or in slavery [TS]

00:39:13   as it were insulated what happens that's [TS]

00:39:15   what happens to people who are good [TS]

00:39:17   that's right well i'm depressed now but [TS]

00:39:21   i did i did as as as you're coming back [TS]

00:39:23   around from the last story I i really [TS]

00:39:27   enjoyed those arrows that he keeps [TS]

00:39:29   pointing backward in the story so in the [TS]

00:39:32   what does it mean uh in a lisaraye [TS]

00:39:36   section there's a the the corporation [TS]

00:39:39   that runs the power plant talks about [TS]

00:39:42   how it's our country's rightful [TS]

00:39:44   corporate Empire the corporation's the [TS]

00:39:47   future some things since like right uh [TS]

00:39:49   yeah I guess it is that isn't that it [TS]

00:39:52   turns out so not so good i really love [TS]

00:39:54   that I i mean i'd like to talk about the [TS]

00:39:56   loser a section for a moment just [TS]

00:39:57   because it's great she's this she's this [TS]

00:40:00   journalist at this really poor poorly [TS]

00:40:05   thought of gossipy rag in what's the [TS]

00:40:10   name of the z-plane us your best way [TS]

00:40:12   miss your bus which is a it's like [TS]

00:40:15   Sunnydale in buffy the vampire slayer [TS]

00:40:17   it's a southern california city that [TS]

00:40:19   doesn't exist but is near Los Angeles [TS]

00:40:22   it's sort of like a fake Santa Barbara [TS]

00:40:24   kinda I guess I don't know but she's [TS]

00:40:28   about where i put it yeah so she's she's [TS]

00:40:30   she gets the she onto the trail of this [TS]

00:40:34   company that's building this giant [TS]

00:40:35   nuclear power plant along the coast and [TS]

00:40:37   it turns out that there in with the [TS]

00:40:39   kind of military industrial complex and [TS]

00:40:43   they're gonna generate all these nuclear [TS]

00:40:46   by products that the government once and [TS]

00:40:49   the it's unsafe and it's gonna because [TS]

00:40:51   it's the seventies and it's a very Three [TS]

00:40:53   Mile Island kind of story it's unsafe [TS]

00:40:54   and it's gonna kill millions of people [TS]

00:40:55   in southern california if if it gets [TS]

00:40:58   built and and the the corporation [TS]

00:41:01   doesn't want anybody to know this and so [TS]

00:41:03   then people are rubbed out by evil you [TS]

00:41:06   know security guys who work for the CEO [TS]

00:41:09   and the chairman of the board and and [TS]

00:41:12   and she's you know her dad was a cop and [TS]

00:41:15   he died but he saved other cops before [TS]

00:41:18   he got shot in the eye and mean it felt [TS]

00:41:21   almost I don't know it feels almost [TS]

00:41:24   Elmore Leonard additional hey was I i [TS]

00:41:27   love the I love that whole seventies [TS]

00:41:30   crime not she's not a detective she's an [TS]

00:41:33   amateur detective reporter type and i [TS]

00:41:37   love that I love that whole story and [TS]

00:41:39   they were nice people you meet who then [TS]

00:41:40   blow up and are killed horribly by [TS]

00:41:44   murderous assassins and you know as it [TS]

00:41:47   has good stuff [TS]

00:41:48   the life of lucasfilm yeah and assassins [TS]

00:41:50   really if you're going to be an assassin [TS]

00:41:51   you should be murderous otherwise you [TS]

00:41:53   shouldn't screw you're not a very good [TS]

00:41:55   assassin anyway I really that was my [TS]

00:41:56   favorite dead i like you don't know what [TS]

00:41:58   you guys thought or if you have other [TS]

00:41:59   favorite favorite uh bits but that was [TS]

00:42:01   the one that I like the best night I [TS]

00:42:03   thought that was a really fun character [TS]

00:42:05   I felt the reefs Luisa Rey was a the [TS]

00:42:08   most memorable character in the book for [TS]

00:42:09   me I like your co-workers to the clearly [TS]

00:42:13   i can almost picture them with their you [TS]

00:42:15   know they're brown and orange silk shirt [TS]

00:42:18   okay and that gigantic afros sideburns [TS]

00:42:23   out the year is just ahead of the whole [TS]

00:42:26   thing about nicely seventies vibed and [TS]

00:42:28   you have the old you know old older guy [TS]

00:42:30   who makes all sorts of off-color jokes [TS]

00:42:32   and doesn't believe that this girl can [TS]

00:42:34   write a story and it turns out in the [TS]

00:42:36   end that he actually has a lot of [TS]

00:42:37   respect for her and all you know [TS]

00:42:40   mhm i was i I just I thought that was [TS]

00:42:43   great and I like that whole you know [TS]

00:42:45   that's the the other thing about as you [TS]

00:42:47   mentioned Jason but the corporation [TS]

00:42:49   having all this power and you know she's [TS]

00:42:50   working at this kind of this gossip [TS]

00:42:53   magazine and she gets this great story [TS]

00:42:55   and she wants to her editors like well I [TS]

00:42:57   don't think you should you know right [TS]

00:42:58   about it because you know cares about [TS]

00:43:00   nuclear regulations and unless it's [TS]

00:43:03   going to blow up and they're going to [TS]

00:43:04   fall out and that'll be good and that's [TS]

00:43:05   all we'll talk about and he lets her go [TS]

00:43:08   and you know figure out what's happening [TS]

00:43:11   because she's plucky i guess and then it [TS]

00:43:14   turns out that the the they figure out [TS]

00:43:16   the corporation figures out what's [TS]

00:43:17   happening and then they buy the magazine [TS]

00:43:18   so that she can hands publishers to the [TS]

00:43:22   attic fire her and they and they say [TS]

00:43:24   will buy the magazine and everybody can [TS]

00:43:26   stay and keep the jobs except it's for [TS]

00:43:29   losers say that very subtle blown at all [TS]

00:43:33   not at all a lot of what i like in that [TS]

00:43:37   section is how everybody is a [TS]

00:43:38   backstabber more or less [TS]

00:43:40   I mean it turns out that every single [TS]

00:43:41   person except maybe one of the the the [TS]

00:43:45   the protesters the activists it's is [TS]

00:43:47   stabbing somebody in the back or getting [TS]

00:43:49   rich on somebody else and the [TS]

00:43:50   corporation is not a monolithic evil [TS]

00:43:52   corporation it's a series of evil people [TS]

00:43:54   who are all equal to one another as well [TS]

00:43:56   as to the general public right there [TS]

00:43:58   just happened to be in the same [TS]

00:44:00   corporate yeah i mean even by the time [TS]

00:44:01   the corporation is taken down there's [TS]

00:44:03   not a whole lot of it left to take down [TS]

00:44:04   to the upper management has been [TS]

00:44:07   dispatched by other members of the upper [TS]

00:44:08   management you generally don't have a [TS]

00:44:10   lot of stand-up guys in the in the big [TS]

00:44:11   evil corporation evil nuclear power [TS]

00:44:13   corporation that's gonna poison all of [TS]

00:44:15   Southern California mostly they're jerks [TS]

00:44:17   that's why they don't work out because I [TS]

00:44:19   just can't be evil people can't work [TS]

00:44:21   together from our evil plan that's [TS]

00:44:22   exactly right they see you know they [TS]

00:44:24   probably would have succeeded had it not [TS]

00:44:25   been for the Predators preying on the [TS]

00:44:27   other [TS]

00:44:29   oh so in some ways I guess that whole [TS]

00:44:32   prey predator relationship sometimes [TS]

00:44:33   works out well that's that's excellent [TS]

00:44:36   you could be an English major to Steve [TS]

00:44:38   look at that what what goat what story [TS]

00:44:40   did you like I like the Orson of sonmi [TS]

00:44:43   40 yeah 451 where there's an obvious [TS]

00:44:47   reference [TS]

00:44:49   yeah i just i i really liked the way it [TS]

00:44:51   sort of gradually unfolded I mean each [TS]

00:44:54   of each of the story just because of the [TS]

00:44:55   way they were set up sort of dropping [TS]

00:44:57   you into whatever world you were in the [TS]

00:45:00   first maybe 56 pages you you're just [TS]

00:45:03   trying to get your bearings and figure [TS]

00:45:05   out what the hell's going on here where [TS]

00:45:06   are we and i really like the kind of [TS]

00:45:08   slow way that unfolded with the [TS]

00:45:10   interview back and forth with the the [TS]

00:45:12   archivist and you know even though a lot [TS]

00:45:16   of the sort of classic dystopian tropes [TS]

00:45:22   were in place they're just the fact that [TS]

00:45:24   you know you got a little bit at a time [TS]

00:45:26   you know what are the fabrications what [TS]

00:45:28   is this soap business and it it got [TS]

00:45:31   increasingly disturbing farther and you [TS]

00:45:35   went and at just being fed a little bit [TS]

00:45:37   at a time it really it it almost felt [TS]

00:45:39   like a really good horror story where [TS]

00:45:43   you know that things are getting worse [TS]

00:45:44   and worse as you go and get your you [TS]

00:45:46   have to see how it all turns out and [TS]

00:45:49   then you have to say that I mean [TS]

00:45:53   obviously the guys writing is is pretty [TS]

00:45:55   superb throughout I mean just that the [TS]

00:45:56   john r exercises that he he takes on in [TS]

00:45:59   each different section and the way he [TS]

00:46:01   rises is just generally amusing but [TS]

00:46:03   particularly in that section it's it's [TS]

00:46:05   kind of amazing you already mentioned [TS]

00:46:07   the the sony and forward an icon and [TS]

00:46:11   nike being basically so fundamental that [TS]

00:46:13   they no longer warrant capitalization [TS]

00:46:15   yeah a car is afford but there's a lot [TS]

00:46:18   of other stuff that he you know justjust [TS]

00:46:20   spelling yeah he says a lot about the [TS]

00:46:22   nature of this the dystopian that they [TS]

00:46:24   live in [TS]

00:46:25   I got for whatever reason they've words [TS]

00:46:29   that start with B X they just thrown [TS]

00:46:32   away II know and they seem to have [TS]

00:46:34   tossed GH out as well and my guess is [TS]

00:46:37   that just because it's inefficient right [TS]

00:46:39   right [TS]

00:46:40   there's really no need for that useless [TS]

00:46:41   junk yeah [TS]

00:46:42   although there are there are a few words [TS]

00:46:43   here and there that maintain the GH so [TS]

00:46:45   that that's not completely throughout [TS]

00:46:48   but i just thought that was kind of [TS]

00:46:50   interesting and then no similar the [TS]

00:46:52   corporation's losing their their their [TS]

00:46:55   capitalization they mention aids at one [TS]

00:46:58   point which has been cured and now it [TS]

00:47:01   too has lost its ominous capital letters [TS]

00:47:02   it's just aids all lowercase [TS]

00:47:04   so I thought that the language in there [TS]

00:47:08   was particularly interesting as well one [TS]

00:47:10   of the things that i liked about this [TS]

00:47:12   that maybe Scott likes to is that seeing [TS]

00:47:16   somebody who is a literary novelist take [TS]

00:47:20   these sci-fi tropes take sci-fi stories [TS]

00:47:25   and embed them in a work like this I [TS]

00:47:28   feel um legitimizes the genre a little [TS]

00:47:32   bit it gives gives it it's a it's a [TS]

00:47:34   talented author saying i can tell a [TS]

00:47:38   story like this too and he tells a bunch [TS]

00:47:40   right he's got an apocalypse story and [TS]

00:47:41   he's got a future story and he's got a [TS]

00:47:43   past or and he's got a in the seventies [TS]

00:47:45   detective story but but there's part of [TS]

00:47:48   a to that i like because it's it's I [TS]

00:47:50   feel like it's going to expose these [TS]

00:47:51   concepts to people who might not [TS]

00:47:53   otherwise be exposed to a story like [TS]

00:47:55   this and the Sonny story is a really he [TS]

00:47:57   did a good job yeah I didn't feel like [TS]

00:47:59   it was a you know you know mainstream [TS]

00:48:03   models she doesn't really understand [TS]

00:48:04   sci-fi but decided to try their hand at [TS]

00:48:06   it to class it up a little bit doesn't [TS]

00:48:08   feel like that at all to me it feels [TS]

00:48:09   like he you know he he knows what kind [TS]

00:48:12   of story you want to tell him that [TS]

00:48:13   Shauna and he does a good job of it so [TS]

00:48:15   you know I like that too and he clearly [TS]

00:48:17   doesn't care that he's recycling Logan's [TS]

00:48:19   Run and soybean and any number of other [TS]

00:48:21   no I you know existing stories recycling [TS]

00:48:25   Soylent Green oh the irony [TS]

00:48:27   so in green is a movie about people i [TS]

00:48:33   also like that he does go into any real [TS]

00:48:36   detail about what happened to the dead [TS]

00:48:39   zones outside of Korea but that that all [TS]

00:48:42   apparently needs that needs to be said [TS]

00:48:44   about our sorry continent is he makes a [TS]

00:48:47   fleeting reference to boardman meth eyes [TS]

00:48:49   American boatpeople solution yes [TS]

00:48:53   you can only imagine what that is it you [TS]

00:48:56   can't possibly be good but it's just [TS]

00:48:57   kinda funny where we are now both people [TS]

00:49:00   hope you die [TS]

00:49:01   presumably we have the few remaining [TS]

00:49:03   survivors landed in Korea and presumably [TS]

00:49:06   dispatched yes [TS]

00:49:09   yeah it's never never good when your [TS]

00:49:11   book person [TS]

00:49:12   yeah I I enjoyed that nitrogen as you're [TS]

00:49:15   talking about the science-fiction [TS]

00:49:17   elements of this as i was reading this [TS]

00:49:19   book i was thinking you know this book [TS]

00:49:21   is really even though all the stories [TS]

00:49:24   are not set in the future it is a [TS]

00:49:26   science fiction book because he's using [TS]

00:49:28   these themes and weaving together these [TS]

00:49:31   characters in this character just keeps [TS]

00:49:33   coming back and back and these are as [TS]

00:49:35   clear science fiction theme yes I and [TS]

00:49:39   the publisher would never market this [TS]

00:49:42   book as a science fiction book because [TS]

00:49:44   it is too literary for that they don't [TS]

00:49:46   want to that's currently being made into [TS]

00:49:48   a major motion picture with Tom Hanks so [TS]

00:49:50   yeah not science fiction but with [TS]

00:49:52   bicycle shops keys right who are exactly [TS]

00:49:54   moves on her directories so exactly [TS]

00:49:56   movies are very different than then [TS]

00:49:58   books and you know the marketing of the [TS]

00:50:00   two else is a mainstream movie genre [TS]

00:50:03   everybody watches sci-fi movies but not [TS]

00:50:05   everybody reads sci-fi novels right and [TS]

00:50:08   if you mark this a sci-fi unless you're [TS]

00:50:10   you know even actually somebody like [TS]

00:50:12   Michael Chabon i mean he he he he won [TS]

00:50:16   the Pulitzer Prize right but it has [TS]

00:50:18   written many John robotics but even then [TS]

00:50:21   it's like what some people are like [TS]

00:50:22   what's wrong with you Michael why are [TS]

00:50:24   you not writing you writing silly things [TS]

00:50:26   about you know monsters and superheroes [TS]

00:50:30   and things and well that's what he wants [TS]

00:50:32   to write about so so they this is one of [TS]

00:50:34   the secrets I don't tell anybody it's [TS]

00:50:36   sci-fi kind of that was actually a [TS]

00:50:38   really a complimentary quote from shape [TS]

00:50:40   on the back of this but yes telling [TS]

00:50:42   isn't it [TS]

00:50:43   thatthat's I I saw that and I hope that [TS]

00:50:46   was perfect because it is that it's got [TS]

00:50:48   that kind of feeling he's he's a better [TS]

00:50:50   writer than David Mitchell but it [TS]

00:50:52   doesn't that feel it's somebody who's [TS]

00:50:54   extremely talented as a writer and is [TS]

00:50:55   going to go ahead and play with sci-fi [TS]

00:50:58   ideas and doesn't really care if that's [TS]

00:51:02   going to bother the literary [TS]

00:51:04   intelligentsia who are they what [TS]

00:51:06   clones in the future no no we can't have [TS]

00:51:09   you ever read any other Mitchell besides [TS]

00:51:11   this I know this is the only mention [TS]

00:51:13   that i have read III uh it makes me want [TS]

00:51:16   to read more of his work but I have so [TS]

00:51:18   many other things and reading if you do [TS]

00:51:20   get the sense that up and I guess this [TS]

00:51:23   will be obvious in the in the movie that [TS]

00:51:25   that there are multiple characters [TS]

00:51:27   repeating here and the one that made me [TS]

00:51:31   laugh is that in the the second story i [TS]

00:51:35   believe there is a there is a doctor who [TS]

00:51:38   is creepy and we've just seen the creepy [TS]

00:51:40   guy who's pretending to be a doctor and [TS]

00:51:42   then very next story there's a dr. Egret [TS]

00:51:44   who says I've never met a quack who I [TS]

00:51:46   didn't suspect of plotting to do me and [TS]

00:51:48   as expensively as he could contrive was [TS]

00:51:50   like well yeah actually that it just [TS]

00:51:52   happens [TS]

00:51:53   I yeah but is that is that actually a [TS]

00:51:56   recurring character or dismissal just [TS]

00:51:57   hate doctors [TS]

00:51:58   uh-huh uh-huh hmm it's a commentary on [TS]

00:52:01   the night it's you get that you get the [TS]

00:52:04   little sense that it that but it but [TS]

00:52:06   it's it's it's a little bit less obvious [TS]

00:52:08   when when as opposed to in the movie [TS]

00:52:10   when it's like why it's Halle Berry [TS]

00:52:12   again haha yeah yeah I the only instance [TS]

00:52:18   of that I even noticed was where I think [TS]

00:52:21   it's a bill smoke is about the dispatch [TS]

00:52:24   Luisa Rey on the on the six minutes boat [TS]

00:52:26   and out what does he say he said [TS]

00:52:31   something along the lines of you you [TS]

00:52:33   always die this noisy what do you what [TS]

00:52:36   do you mean always or something along [TS]

00:52:38   those lines together it is this death [TS]

00:52:39   always make you so verbose ah and Louisa [TS]

00:52:42   says what do you mean always like [TS]

00:52:44   there's some significance to that yeah [TS]

00:52:45   move so it's yeah so presumably bill [TS]

00:52:50   smoke exists in the other stories as [TS]

00:52:52   well and some i mean this this reads to [TS]

00:52:55   me like a book that i would probably get [TS]

00:52:57   a lot more out of the fight a second [TS]

00:52:59   time like there's they're probably some [TS]

00:53:01   bits in the first half of that first [TS]

00:53:03   chapter that point to a lot of clues [TS]

00:53:05   here and there that I completely missed [TS]

00:53:07   on the first time through although i [TS]

00:53:08   kinda looks like a time man i kinda like [TS]

00:53:10   that it's it's less it didn't feel part [TS]

00:53:15   of it didn't feel obvious right i [TS]

00:53:16   remember becoming shaped birthmark and [TS]

00:53:18   all that it's very obvious part of it [TS]

00:53:19   didn't I didn't feel like oh yes now I [TS]

00:53:22   know who each of our three or four [TS]

00:53:24   recurring characters in this time frame [TS]

00:53:26   i didn't have that sense and i was happy [TS]

00:53:28   I was grateful for that i like the idea [TS]

00:53:30   that there's some of these people are [TS]

00:53:32   recurring and that's fine but it he [TS]

00:53:34   never spell spelled it out at least that [TS]

00:53:37   I could tell I was grateful I really was [TS]

00:53:40   that that that would have made my eyes [TS]

00:53:41   roll back into my head yeah it was the [TS]

00:53:43   world connected we go through this life [TS]

00:53:45   together again and again I I didn't I i [TS]

00:53:47   just did didn't want this book to be [TS]

00:53:49   that it wasn't that would've been [TS]

00:53:51   thoroughly that looks sucked it would [TS]

00:53:53   have been as like you know the character [TS]

00:53:55   had to live in every story or something [TS]

00:53:57   I think it's an Aston conceit though if [TS]

00:53:59   this is a situation that sort of the [TS]

00:54:02   soul being reincarnated repeatedly that [TS]

00:54:04   perhaps souls can take a break from [TS]

00:54:06   actual terrestrial life and live in a [TS]

00:54:09   book for a while because presumably [TS]

00:54:14   that's what has happened when Luisa Rey [TS]

00:54:16   is written by Hillary hush no other [TS]

00:54:20   particular reason why this character [TS]

00:54:21   would suddenly yeah birthmark [TS]

00:54:23   yeah that's true that weird well and and [TS]

00:54:27   Timothy Cavendish is alive is old enough [TS]

00:54:31   that he's alive when when Luisa Rey [TS]

00:54:34   would have been alive but Louis sorry we [TS]

00:54:36   didn't wasn't real [TS]

00:54:38   presumably but was just the character in [TS]

00:54:40   the book well it's not certain that that [TS]

00:54:42   he is in fact that character because he [TS]

00:54:46   does he makes mention of having a [TS]

00:54:47   birthmark yes there's no one no one has [TS]

00:54:49   ever made notice of it being a comet [TS]

00:54:50   somebody called Tim bows turd as Chicago [TS]

00:54:53   but ya never told him look like a comet [TS]

00:54:56   yeah but that's one that's one of those [TS]

00:54:57   really nice suggestions that that maybe [TS]

00:54:59   you know with what we're seeing is the [TS]

00:55:02   connection that these characters have is [TS]

00:55:03   that they're in this book together and [TS]

00:55:05   not necessarily that they're in some [TS]

00:55:07   fictional world reincarnating into one [TS]

00:55:09   another because in Cavendish's world [TS]

00:55:12   Louis raise a character in a book not a [TS]

00:55:15   person because if she had been a person [TS]

00:55:17   he would have been alive at the same [TS]

00:55:18   time that she was alive [TS]

00:55:20   that's true he would probably remember [TS]

00:55:21   this Giants can yes about the nuclear [TS]

00:55:24   power plant exactly people blown up [TS]

00:55:27   right so that that adds a whole other [TS]

00:55:30   layer [TS]

00:55:33   you think about this book be more [TS]

00:55:34   confusing if he's interested it's true [TS]

00:55:36   and that's that's that's the problem for [TS]

00:55:38   me i mean i really liked the individual [TS]

00:55:39   stories i like the writing i like the [TS]

00:55:41   cleverness it would have been so much [TS]

00:55:44   more if there had been some sort of a [TS]

00:55:46   thread that I could have picked up and [TS]

00:55:48   you know it's just it's frustrating that [TS]

00:55:51   there wasn't [TS]

00:55:52   maybe a bit more of a hint i would [TS]

00:55:53   probably go back and reread the book if [TS]

00:55:55   I had enough of an indication that i was [TS]

00:55:57   just sort of missing something but I [TS]

00:56:00   felt like when I got to the end and [TS]

00:56:02   things didn't really add up and there [TS]

00:56:03   wasn't really any kind of a hint that [TS]

00:56:06   maybe I was just missing something that [TS]

00:56:07   now oh well here we go [TS]

00:56:10   yeah did a little off coast write this [TS]

00:56:12   thing huh yeah I don't think that he has [TS]

00:56:17   an author is really interested in kind [TS]

00:56:19   of and I think this is good is not [TS]

00:56:20   interested in kind of holding your hand [TS]

00:56:22   through and kind of spelling out the [TS]

00:56:23   whole thing there's a difference between [TS]

00:56:24   holding your hand and just not really [TS]

00:56:27   having a point well I think he has a ps2 [TS]

00:56:30   I'm gonna get it is i don't think that [TS]

00:56:32   there is a strong kind of a way that you [TS]

00:56:36   can decode whatever it is like there's [TS]

00:56:38   no hints to some like there's no pivotal [TS]

00:56:41   scene where it's like a hot it all comes [TS]

00:56:43   to gaol it all makes sense right now i [TS]

00:56:46   want to draw me a map but at the same [TS]

00:56:48   time he's got to do a little of the work [TS]

00:56:50   in coming up with the story it's not for [TS]

00:56:52   me to make up the story based on here [TS]

00:56:54   it'sit's series of vignettes the tie [TS]

00:56:57   together only marginally I think he [TS]

00:57:00   wants you to kind of draw all of these [TS]

00:57:02   connections because he casually mentions [TS]

00:57:04   similar things in each of the stories [TS]

00:57:05   and you know it just as you're reading [TS]

00:57:07   it I think you're just supposed to [TS]

00:57:08   notice one or you know two of the things [TS]

00:57:11   and not all of them i imagine unless you [TS]

00:57:14   read it more than once and just kind of [TS]

00:57:16   get that kind of general you know [TS]

00:57:19   everybody's connected kind of thing [TS]

00:57:20   without him having to be having have to [TS]

00:57:23   say like jason said like whoa [TS]

00:57:25   we're all connected yeah we're all [TS]

00:57:27   clouds in the cloud atlas [TS]

00:57:29   yeah that's cool man no having if there [TS]

00:57:32   is something in rock man at the end when [TS]

00:57:34   Adam Ewing becomes an abolitionist right [TS]

00:57:37   i mean that this is his moment to say [TS]

00:57:38   and he sort of does he said he used to [TS]

00:57:41   say not slavery is bad but to say you [TS]

00:57:45   know [TS]

00:57:46   stronger going to press the weekend you [TS]

00:57:48   need to end and that's bad and you need [TS]

00:57:51   to do something about it because that's [TS]

00:57:53   the law of the jungle and this is where [TS]

00:57:55   this goes is to the complete destruction [TS]

00:57:56   of society and it's not just about [TS]

00:57:58   slavery although slavery as part of it [TS]

00:58:00   but it's about you know what he's saying [TS]

00:58:01   is it's the this is corporate structure [TS]

00:58:05   that's out of control in nineteen [TS]

00:58:06   nineteen seventies and the court bokra [TS]

00:58:08   see of korea in the 21st century and and [TS]

00:58:14   you know that's that's sort of one of [TS]

00:58:15   the things that he's saying here and [TS]

00:58:17   that's fine I that seems like a fairly [TS]

00:58:19   straightforward straightforward thing [TS]

00:58:21   but uh the end I you know in the end i [TS]

00:58:25   liked it i didn't love it i'm glad i [TS]

00:58:29   read it because I I i enjoyed the ride [TS]

00:58:31   of not really knowing what the heck I [TS]

00:58:33   was gonna get next I'm and my wife my [TS]

00:58:36   wife said oh how'd you like it my said [TS]

00:58:38   it was it was it was strange it was a [TS]

00:58:42   strange book and but you know by I rip [TS]

00:58:46   through it i read it other than the [TS]

00:58:48   first chapter then it will speed it up [TS]

00:58:50   and it was like yeah okay now that now [TS]

00:58:53   that we're out of Adam Ewing I'm ready [TS]

00:58:54   to go yeah but the problem with the [TS]

00:58:57   payoff of you know p be cool to be good [TS]

00:58:59   to one another [TS]

00:59:00   don't be 2x yeah exactly is that the [TS]

00:59:03   world just clouds man we're all clouds [TS]

00:59:05   in the sky and and even with the clouds [TS]

00:59:07   evaporate man they come back there yeah [TS]

00:59:11   well I just didn't think we consider [TS]

00:59:13   this is a comet [TS]

00:59:15   yeah so the doctor and the past of this [TS]

00:59:19   book are already set so even so the the [TS]

00:59:23   person farthest in the past becomes an [TS]

00:59:25   abolitionist at the end of the book [TS]

00:59:26   right but it doesn't change the fact [TS]

00:59:28   that the future is complete crap anyway [TS]

00:59:30   and everybody since I just he's just one [TS]

00:59:32   man or one entity you know he's sickly [TS]

00:59:36   looking ed I think the point maybe is [TS]

00:59:38   you know that point we all did that then [TS]

00:59:41   maybe it would make a difference but if [TS]

00:59:42   just one dude does then you know we're [TS]

00:59:44   all screwed [TS]

00:59:45   I guess that's true [TS]

00:59:47   so basically screwed it is a message [TS]

00:59:50   book yeah more or less but i would say [TS]

00:59:54   that I almost loved the book i came real [TS]

00:59:57   close i really liked like i said i like [TS]

00:59:59   this store [TS]

00:59:59   this store [TS]

01:00:00   he's loved the writing style and they [TS]

01:00:02   were occasionally there'd be these [TS]

01:00:03   little sections where just he would whip [TS]

01:00:06   out with like two three paragraphs of [TS]

01:00:07   just really beautiful sentiments that [TS]

01:00:11   they coming almost out of nowhere and [TS]

01:00:12   then he would move on to the rest of the [TS]

01:00:14   story and I thought that was fairly [TS]

01:00:16   interesting like that whole section [TS]

01:00:17   where you know the guys on the plane and [TS]

01:00:18   he comes up with the past in the future [TS]

01:00:20   and while that is some pretty heavy [TS]

01:00:21   stuff i SAT there for a while trying to [TS]

01:00:23   work that out and you know it was it was [TS]

01:00:26   a fun book to read and i like that a [TS]

01:00:29   whole lot more before before I got to [TS]

01:00:31   the end and relax that it wasn't gonna [TS]

01:00:33   pay off that well but in the end yeah i [TS]

01:00:36   would say that I a borderline loved it [TS]

01:00:39   and wish I could say that I i loved it [TS]

01:00:42   without any reservation but I sadly [TS]

01:00:44   cannot the journey is its own reward [TS]

01:00:47   this reservation i'm glad i read it I'm [TS]

01:00:50   glad I me too and i would i would [TS]

01:00:51   recommend it to an adventurous reader [TS]

01:00:53   who somebody who appreciates the you [TS]

01:00:56   know you'll make the connections and [TS]

01:00:58   this different stories are interlocked [TS]

01:01:00   but they're very different genres and [TS]

01:01:01   somebody who really loves that stuff and [TS]

01:01:04   I'm not going to recommend my mom read [TS]

01:01:06   it you know [TS]

01:01:08   my mom's not that adventurous she's a [TS]

01:01:10   reader but she's not that is interest [TS]

01:01:12   but if somebody who loves seeing these [TS]

01:01:15   kind of books that are about books and [TS]

01:01:16   that are interconnected and and [TS]

01:01:18   self-referential and all that that that [TS]

01:01:20   they would enjoy this book my mom would [TS]

01:01:22   like to read the with probably enjoy [TS]

01:01:25   reading Luisa Rey mysteries novels right [TS]

01:01:28   yeah I wasn't where I want to be honest [TS]

01:01:30   with you [TS]

01:01:31   so what I actually but they were pulpy [TS]

01:01:33   but great fun it was great loved it [TS]

01:01:36   yep so if you do read the book and you [TS]

01:01:38   you figure out what the point is [TS]

01:01:40   please drop us a line I think you [TS]

01:01:43   already got to be excellent to each [TS]

01:01:45   other occupied what I can't be it you [TS]

01:01:47   don't really know again I think it is [TS]

01:01:50   though I i'm not sure what the point of [TS]

01:01:52   the book was except that i enjoyed [TS]

01:01:55   reading it and I thought it was a [TS]

01:01:56   fantastically constructed and [TS]

01:01:58   well-written yeah kind of get of jenny [TS]

01:02:01   and many papers will be written by [TS]

01:02:03   English students about this it's just I [TS]

01:02:05   hate that it comes so close to being [TS]

01:02:07   sublime and even in those last I've got [TS]

01:02:09   to the second page from the last night [TS]

01:02:12   was like it's coming it's here and the [TS]

01:02:14   last few pages i swear i got down to one [TS]

01:02:16   page was like oh god it's not go because [TS]

01:02:18   it and it didn't come [TS]

01:02:20   oh except for the aforementioned Adam [TS]

01:02:23   Adam Ewing as the focal point of the [TS]

01:02:25   beginning and end of this book is a [TS]

01:02:26   major problem i think really i think it [TS]

01:02:30   it will transmit of a doe a lot of [TS]

01:02:32   people have yeah well and then and then [TS]

01:02:34   in the end you don't I mean I I actually [TS]

01:02:36   feel like it's like frobisher's story is [TS]

01:02:38   you know I got to the end of that story [TS]

01:02:41   and then and then back to Adam you like [TS]

01:02:43   a Adam Ewing you know i just did never [TS]

01:02:45   yeah i think it's a weakness because [TS]

01:02:47   that that it because it's in that style [TS]

01:02:49   which is totally right [TS]

01:02:51   I it but it's a little bit of a snooze [TS]

01:02:53   and his big revelation is that he's [TS]

01:02:55   going to be a an abolitionist and yeah [TS]

01:02:58   it's not it's it's not the strongest [TS]

01:03:00   starter or enter and it's funny because [TS]

01:03:03   i think the beginning and end sections [TS]

01:03:06   and the dead center sections are not [TS]

01:03:08   great [TS]

01:03:10   compared to some of the stuff in the [TS]

01:03:12   middle I don't know yeah I think that's [TS]

01:03:15   true i think the the first and last [TS]

01:03:17   section are good in that they are well [TS]

01:03:20   written and good kind of mimicking of [TS]

01:03:24   that style but that the the story itself [TS]

01:03:26   is not all that component yet to come [TS]

01:03:28   all that way and end up with Adam you [TS]

01:03:30   and getting off the boat in Hawaii or [TS]

01:03:33   San Francisco or wherever he ends up is [TS]

01:03:35   not i guess it's Hawaii because that's [TS]

01:03:38   don't you know that story ends in the [TS]

01:03:40   same place that the story of the NRA [TS]

01:03:41   world ends so right that's where the [TS]

01:03:44   freed slave save his life yeah exactly [TS]

01:03:47   mm but I i am very glad that i read this [TS]

01:03:53   book before I saw the movie though [TS]

01:03:54   because I think that's no matter how [TS]

01:03:57   good the movie is going to be or how bad [TS]

01:03:59   the movie is going to be I can't help [TS]

01:04:01   think that it will ruin the book for [TS]

01:04:03   anyone who read who sees the movie first [TS]

01:04:05   and then reads the book yeah I think [TS]

01:04:07   that's I've read some advanced reviews [TS]

01:04:09   on the movie and they do not speak [TS]

01:04:11   highly no dear tend to say but I mean [TS]

01:04:14   honestly what could you do [TS]

01:04:15   I mean how do you film this this kind of [TS]

01:04:18   a book [TS]

01:04:19   totally i think there's the whole thing [TS]

01:04:22   that I don't I can't take it i do not [TS]

01:04:25   understand how this kind of book can be [TS]

01:04:27   turned into a compelling movie so I [TS]

01:04:29   don't know if I want to even see this [TS]

01:04:30   movie but I'm more intrigued now just [TS]

01:04:32   because i read the book and I would kind [TS]

01:04:33   of like to see how the heck they try to [TS]

01:04:34   make it into a movie and I refused to [TS]

01:04:37   even watch the the trailer before [TS]

01:04:38   finishing no one will be seated in the [TS]

01:04:41   senior citizens escape the old folks [TS]

01:04:43   home see ya i was reading that I was [TS]

01:04:46   thinking this disc this will make a [TS]

01:04:48   pretty good maybe section [TS]

01:04:49   yeah there's a whole escape let's get to [TS]

01:04:52   some ease escape from you know there's [TS]

01:04:54   there's some stuff but it's going to be [TS]

01:04:55   at periods of action spread apart by [TS]

01:04:59   long sections of the book is anything to [TS]

01:05:02   go by expository [TS]

01:05:04   so what are they gonna do with that I [TS]

01:05:06   don't know I'm that's been i'm glad i [TS]

01:05:10   read the book thanks got it boggles the [TS]

01:05:12   mind yeah I am glad that i sold my wife [TS]

01:05:15   told me to read this book like five [TS]

01:05:17   years ago ignored her recommendation [TS]

01:05:20   that movie came out if i don't know i [TS]

01:05:22   gotta get to it before the movie excited [TS]

01:05:24   i watch the trailer for the movie and I [TS]

01:05:26   thought this is sounds like it's a [TS]

01:05:27   really interesting novel that's gonna be [TS]

01:05:29   an awful movie so I should really read [TS]

01:05:32   the novel before the movie comes out [TS]

01:05:34   good idea i'm good idea and i'm glad i'm [TS]

01:05:37   sad that I only came across this book [TS]

01:05:39   too late to not have the soon to be a [TS]

01:05:42   major motion picture on the top of the [TS]

01:05:44   cover but at least i have avoided tom [TS]

01:05:47   hanks and Halle Berry peering at me from [TS]

01:05:48   the windows instead of the lovely cloud [TS]

01:05:50   pictures that idea is dead [TS]

01:05:52   that's right I'm play Tom Hanks in the [TS]

01:05:54   movie tom hanks plays a cloud we all [TS]

01:05:56   play cloud man oh yeah we're all good [TS]

01:05:59   you know like I clouds need reading [TS]

01:06:01   through time and space you know what [TS]

01:06:03   yeah that's when the mean clouds come in [TS]

01:06:05   a press the other nice clouds and tell [TS]

01:06:07   them where to go [TS]

01:06:09   sometimes we'd rig works and sometimes [TS]

01:06:11   we drip yeah good times [TS]

01:06:14   now the times we suck up the ocean [TS]

01:06:16   alright this has been great scott thank [TS]

01:06:18   you for that thank you for suggesting [TS]

01:06:20   this book that nobody read but us [TS]

01:06:23   well I'm glad that at least you two [TS]

01:06:24   brave fellows picked up this book and [TS]

01:06:26   actually finished it because i do think [TS]

01:06:29   that despite some of its flaws [TS]

01:06:31   it's a 0 a book that is a rewarding [TS]

01:06:35   experience to read if you enjoy kind of [TS]

01:06:38   out-of-the-box reading books [TS]

01:06:41   yes injury but so far not so far outside [TS]

01:06:44   of the box that it was difficult to read [TS]

01:06:46   or irritating to read which is nice yeah [TS]

01:06:48   yes exactly it's not like a totally [TS]

01:06:51   experimental story down oh you have no [TS]

01:06:54   idea what's going on there are very [TS]

01:06:55   strong plot lines and you can follow [TS]

01:06:57   them through the mr. om they're all [TS]

01:06:59   genres right there all recognized by [TS]

01:07:01   many of these are things that I i feel [TS]

01:07:04   like i've read this book before or [TS]

01:07:06   something very much like it and I and I [TS]

01:07:08   like that so so they're not they're not [TS]

01:07:11   painful pretentious things are woven [TS]

01:07:14   together in a pretentious way maybe [TS]

01:07:18   but they're individually not that and [TS]

01:07:20   that's like there there's a series of [TS]

01:07:22   concentric boxes of increasing size and [TS]

01:07:24   this is actually outside of the first [TS]

01:07:26   box but it doesn't actually step outside [TS]

01:07:28   of the second box so it's right in there [TS]

01:07:31   I see yes they're there are six boxes [TS]

01:07:35   nested Wow all right on that note I'm [TS]

01:07:43   going to thank everybody for listening [TS]

01:07:45   and I'm going to thank Steve let's and [TS]

01:07:46   Scott McNulty for reading the book yay [TS]

01:07:50   you read the book [TS]

01:07:52   yay for us for a i'm glad i did and now [TS]

01:07:55   I can go back to doing other things and [TS]

01:07:57   I'm glad you both liked it because I was [TS]

01:08:00   afraid that no one damn scott magno t [TS]

01:08:02   why am I reading this but we thought [TS]

01:08:05   that during the first chapter and then I [TS]

01:08:07   got over it so I one clan [TS]

01:08:09   yeah this is a little bit out of what we [TS]

01:08:11   have been reading for the book club [TS]

01:08:13   it is and that at msy many of our book [TS]

01:08:16   club versa bailed on an apparent their [TS]

01:08:19   extreme left their comfort zone [TS]

01:08:21   well we know who the strong and the weak [TS]

01:08:23   are now don't we [TS]

01:08:24   mhm it turns out the guy that never [TS]

01:08:27   reads is one of the strong term who saw [TS]

01:08:29   that coming [TS]

01:08:29   it's a plot twist to clean comfortable [TS]

01:08:31   compost of the century irony [TS]

01:08:35   thanks everybody for listening to the [TS]

01:08:37   income from podcast until our next book [TS]

01:08:38   club good Bob [TS]