The Incomparable

105: That Mr. Hitler Seems Nice


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast number 105 [TS]

00:00:10   September's went well [TS]

00:00:15   welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:16   podcast I'm your host Jason snow and I'm [TS]

00:00:19   convening another edition of our book [TS]

00:00:21   club we are going to be talking about [TS]

00:00:24   trilogy of books by sci-fi writer I [TS]

00:00:28   guess I fine fancy writer John Walton [TS]

00:00:30   who we love [TS]

00:00:31   we recommended her book among others [TS]

00:00:33   extremely highly and and now we're going [TS]

00:00:38   to talk about this trilogy of books set [TS]

00:00:40   in an alternate history universe in the [TS]

00:00:44   aftermath of world war two joining me [TS]

00:00:48   today are the very well-read Scott [TS]

00:00:53   McNulty hi Scott [TS]

00:00:55   hello to a diary it's good to be here [TS]

00:00:58   does it make you feel good that every [TS]

00:00:59   everything you say you know is going to [TS]

00:01:01   cause extra work for that poor guy who's [TS]

00:01:03   trying to make a supercut of everything [TS]

00:01:05   you've ever said on the uncomfortable I [TS]

00:01:08   feel very very sorry for him [TS]

00:01:10   I don't know he volunteered to do it yes [TS]

00:01:12   its own fault you you do your own grave [TS]

00:01:14   mr. yeah exactly right and now that will [TS]

00:01:16   be in there because every time you talk [TS]

00:01:18   it's more work for him just talking on [TS]

00:01:21   also joining us Dan Morgan hi Dan hi [TS]

00:01:24   Jason [TS]

00:01:25   nobody's trying to make a super kind of [TS]

00:01:26   anything I've said and that's probably [TS]

00:01:27   good thought well i would say it would [TS]

00:01:29   take too long [TS]

00:01:30   I mean the whole premise is god is he [TS]

00:01:32   doesn't say very much i like to think [TS]

00:01:34   that if you put all of Scots appearances [TS]

00:01:36   together they actually do create some [TS]

00:01:38   sort of cohesive old that possibly [TS]

00:01:40   causes your brain to melt from the [TS]

00:01:41   inside out [TS]

00:01:42   he's playing a long game is very though [TS]

00:01:44   i have no evidence to prove it now dan [TS]

00:01:47   you've only read two of these books [TS]

00:01:48   correct and a half [TS]

00:01:50   alright so halfway through the third [TS]

00:01:51   book we're going to kick you off I [TS]

00:01:52   thought it was called half-a-crown for a [TS]

00:01:54   reason you've only read a quarter of the [TS]

00:01:56   crown wasn't whole around [TS]

00:01:58   also joining us Glen fleischmann hi [TS]

00:02:00   Glenn I i I've tried whole crowd but [TS]

00:02:03   it's too rich we had to go to [TS]

00:02:04   half-a-crown because no lactose [TS]

00:02:06   intolerant interesting that's a little [TS]

00:02:09   too much information but thank you very [TS]

00:02:11   much [TS]

00:02:11   I'm glad you're with us and you can play [TS]

00:02:12   here and also serenity Caldwell hello [TS]

00:02:16   hello i have read all of the English [TS]

00:02:19   currency books [TS]

00:02:20   well the ones that exist that's good all [TS]

00:02:22   three of the ones that have been [TS]

00:02:24   published anyway we will fire off the [TS]

00:02:26   spoiler horn as we go [TS]

00:02:28   so that you can if you have not read all [TS]

00:02:30   these books and you want a you want to [TS]

00:02:32   tune out at any point will let you will [TS]

00:02:36   will give you some warning but to get [TS]

00:02:39   started maybe before we file off fire [TS]

00:02:42   off the spoiler horn i should i should [TS]

00:02:43   explain the first novel farthing before [TS]

00:02:47   we give away too much about it it starts [TS]

00:02:50   at one of the things I really like about [TS]

00:02:51   this book when I describe this to other [TS]

00:02:53   people is that it it has a great setup [TS]

00:02:57   it starts out as essentially chase you [TS]

00:03:00   know an Agatha Christie novel in a [TS]

00:03:02   slightly alternate universe and I [TS]

00:03:05   thought that was very funny the idea of [TS]

00:03:07   doing an all universe you know a an [TS]

00:03:09   alternate history [TS]

00:03:10   Agatha Christie novel and for a while [TS]

00:03:14   that's what it is and then it suddenly [TS]

00:03:16   is not that anymore but I i thought that [TS]

00:03:18   was a great a great without giving too [TS]

00:03:20   much away until we find out the spoiler [TS]

00:03:22   horn and a nice setup that you you think [TS]

00:03:24   you're reading one book going into it I [TS]

00:03:26   really didn't know what to expect [TS]

00:03:28   you think you're reading one book and it [TS]

00:03:29   turns out that it's all a it's all kind [TS]

00:03:31   of a sham and you're actually reading [TS]

00:03:33   something very different as a as a [TS]

00:03:35   student of the appeasement of Neville [TS]

00:03:39   Chamberlain's incredibly horrible [TS]

00:03:40   attitude and sort of British Anglophilia [TS]

00:03:43   leading up until British actually Leah [TS]

00:03:45   I'm sorry pretty sure that whoever them [TS]

00:03:48   to tana filia excuse me [TS]

00:03:50   yes there are four of those bridge to [TS]

00:03:52   terabithia leading up and into world war [TS]

00:03:54   two even when atrocity started become [TS]

00:03:56   known you know i love these books [TS]

00:03:58   because you know I've always been bitter [TS]

00:04:01   about the British attitude [TS]

00:04:02   no I felt actually felt like these [TS]

00:04:03   actually explored something that's [TS]

00:04:04   critical to the British character beyond [TS]

00:04:05   the science-fiction part of it that you [TS]

00:04:07   you have you know the events described [TS]

00:04:09   you sort of branch off at a certain [TS]

00:04:11   point but you know there are plenty of [TS]

00:04:13   parts of the British public of the [TS]

00:04:15   British aristocracy and royalty [TS]

00:04:18   leadership that we've been perfectly [TS]

00:04:20   happy to deal with Hitler I thought she [TS]

00:04:23   had a great historic graphic basis [TS]

00:04:26   historical basis of where she chose [TS]

00:04:28   these very particular branches it was an [TS]

00:04:30   arbitration make stuff up should have to [TS]

00:04:32   sort of create an alternate history [TS]

00:04:35   years before the point she branched off [TS]

00:04:37   she took a very logical place and [TS]

00:04:39   and it don't know this because i was [TS]

00:04:42   pleased by seeing what the outcome would [TS]

00:04:44   be right because we should say that when [TS]

00:04:45   they win this book starts we're in a [TS]

00:04:47   what we realize we're in an alternate [TS]

00:04:49   history where something has happened in [TS]

00:04:51   World War tues progression has not [TS]

00:04:53   happened at the way that we thought it [TS]

00:04:54   would but the wars are still going on [TS]

00:04:57   that you write history with Eastern [TS]

00:04:59   Front more the Hitler's be able to wage [TS]

00:05:00   because he has been busy on the western [TS]

00:05:02   front either he subjugated all the [TS]

00:05:04   countries always has appeasement with [TS]

00:05:06   England which made sense because germany [TS]

00:05:08   and england the Germans were actually [TS]

00:05:09   sort of considered the the English as at [TS]

00:05:12   least if not inferior you know not [TS]

00:05:14   totally inferior not worthy of being [TS]

00:05:16   necessarily invaded so in fact you know [TS]

00:05:18   the german invasion of attempted [TS]

00:05:20   invasion of England in reality was part [TS]

00:05:22   because it just wouldn't give up you [TS]

00:05:23   know it was it was sort of this year [TS]

00:05:25   bloody-minded we're gonna batter the [TS]

00:05:27   hell out of you because you won't you [TS]

00:05:28   know given to our Teutonic leadership [TS]

00:05:30   well and then the the other thing which [TS]

00:05:33   doesn't really come up as much although [TS]

00:05:34   it's alluded to a couple of times is [TS]

00:05:36   that this is also a war where America [TS]

00:05:39   never got involved right right right [TS]

00:05:40   yeah as I recall and someone correct me [TS]

00:05:43   if I'm wrong [TS]

00:05:44   actually there is sort of a bit of a [TS]

00:05:45   historical narrative change way back [TS]

00:05:48   because isn't it [TS]

00:05:49   America's not involved because America [TS]

00:05:51   got decimated by the great depression [TS]

00:05:53   and never came out of it so there's [TS]

00:05:55   different i don't know i mean Charles [TS]

00:05:58   Lindbergh is the president and yeah [TS]

00:06:01   America [TS]

00:06:02   yeah in America has not yet has remained [TS]

00:06:06   isolationist essentially and that that [TS]

00:06:09   has that is a change and there's some [TS]

00:06:11   changes in the inn in the the Nazi [TS]

00:06:14   government's uh entreaties to the to the [TS]

00:06:16   British and it's unclear exactly what [TS]

00:06:18   the point of divergence is here but [TS]

00:06:20   because i never i recall no mention and [TS]

00:06:22   maybe it comes up towards the end of the [TS]

00:06:24   third book because it said I haven't [TS]

00:06:25   read but never any mention of Pearl [TS]

00:06:27   Harbor which we can we started defining [TS]

00:06:30   event there you lead the the the asian [TS]

00:06:33   front does not really come into it as [TS]

00:06:34   much though I know the Japanese are [TS]

00:06:35   mentioned in the third book i think [TS]

00:06:37   there's nothing the deals America's [TS]

00:06:38   trying to appease Japan because they [TS]

00:06:40   feel like the war in Europe isn't theirs [TS]

00:06:41   is over cool was it Coolidge I mean [TS]

00:06:43   world war one was really where the u.s. [TS]

00:06:45   ended its its isolationist phase and [TS]

00:06:48   then you could see the return to that [TS]

00:06:49   right twenties anyway and you know the [TS]

00:06:51   American didn't want to get involved [TS]

00:06:52   more work to still very reasonable so [TS]

00:06:54   ostensibly with one burgers president [TS]

00:06:56   and we're running the backstories our [TS]

00:06:57   fan fiction versions of far things right [TS]

00:07:00   but the series is asian Lindbergh [TS]

00:07:01   instead of trying to you know portrayed [TS]

00:07:04   the Japanese two minutes the Axis powers [TS]

00:07:06   is that Europe's re basically settled [TS]

00:07:09   with England and Germany deciding their [TS]

00:07:12   positions and russia is being battled so [TS]

00:07:14   America allies itself or the Japanese or [TS]

00:07:18   take care of china and korea and the [TS]

00:07:19   rest of asia right now I just want to [TS]

00:07:21   stay out of it and be left alone of will [TS]

00:07:23   fire off the spoiler horn for the first [TS]

00:07:25   book only now [TS]

00:07:26   [Music] [TS]

00:07:29   guys I think we're about to run into a [TS]

00:07:31   lighthouse just yeah that's right [TS]

00:07:32   there's lots of fog spoilers are in the [TS]

00:07:34   fog it's England it's foggy it's good so [TS]

00:07:39   what ends up happening is that there's [TS]

00:07:41   this uh what we're really watching here [TS]

00:07:44   is a takeover the English government so [TS]

00:07:47   this is a this is all kind of a plot [TS]

00:07:51   there's a murder at the house that we [TS]

00:07:52   think is part of this Agatha Christie [TS]

00:07:54   thing and we have two narrators there [TS]

00:07:56   there's um our Carmichael our police [TS]

00:08:00   investigator who will be the character [TS]

00:08:02   who carries throughout all three books [TS]

00:08:03   and then there is uh oh what's her name [TS]

00:08:08   mrs. Khan Lucy mrs. Khan who is it who [TS]

00:08:11   is an English woman of some-some [TS]

00:08:15   standing some she's from my I think a [TS]

00:08:17   good family but she's she's married a [TS]

00:08:20   Jew and therefore she's destroyed all [TS]

00:08:24   for social standing and what it turns [TS]

00:08:26   out this is really relevant because [TS]

00:08:27   anti-semitism is is on the rise as a [TS]

00:08:30   part of this the fact that they made a [TS]

00:08:32   deal with the Nazi government and uh and [TS]

00:08:36   and that she's at the house when the [TS]

00:08:38   murder happens and Carmichael comes to [TS]

00:08:40   investigate and it turns out that it's [TS]

00:08:42   this actually larger conspiracy and this [TS]

00:08:44   this murder mystery turns into something [TS]

00:08:47   quite horrible which is really a coup [TS]

00:08:49   that and I takeover of the English [TS]

00:08:52   government by by these people who are [TS]

00:08:55   not they are not very nice people you [TS]

00:08:59   know the kind of jerks khan by the way [TS]

00:09:02   con con Edison is no idea her husband is [TS]

00:09:07   this is this nice fellow but everybody [TS]

00:09:09   view some with suspicion just because [TS]

00:09:10   he's Jewish and and her it likewise and [TS]

00:09:15   and there's an interesting scene where [TS]

00:09:17   she goes out riding and there's a their [TS]

00:09:20   shot at and and it seems like this [TS]

00:09:24   bizarre turn and it turns out there's [TS]

00:09:26   that they've like hired a guy to to it [TS]

00:09:31   as part of this cover-up to attack [TS]

00:09:33   people at this at this English manor [TS]

00:09:36   it's just it's a crazy turn of events [TS]

00:09:39   where you realize that you're not you [TS]

00:09:41   know you're not reading the book that [TS]

00:09:42   you thought you were [TS]

00:09:43   yeah that's it again as a student of [TS]

00:09:45   that era British history and say that [TS]

00:09:46   the anti-semitism that she describes was [TS]

00:09:49   pretty thinly veiled and already existed [TS]

00:09:50   there's already that sort of restriction [TS]

00:09:52   as there was the United States the time [TS]

00:09:54   it was all you know sort of under the [TS]

00:09:56   surface so she's tapping into that [TS]

00:09:57   notion that instead of that becoming [TS]

00:09:59   less acceptable that you know the plight [TS]

00:10:02   of Jews in Europe the entry into world [TS]

00:10:04   war two and then like progressive [TS]

00:10:05   post-war changes in English and you know [TS]

00:10:09   a lot of above the developed world would [TS]

00:10:11   make a semitism less less acceptable [TS]

00:10:13   it's like no no are good man our good [TS]

00:10:16   friend Hitler he's taking care of all [TS]

00:10:17   those lousy havoc people and those lazy [TS]

00:10:20   Dutch and whatever he's take care of the [TS]

00:10:22   Europe well we'll have things well in [TS]

00:10:24   hand England including with are Jews [TS]

00:10:26   yeah and it's and it's really i mean [TS]

00:10:29   it's really horrifying what I've been [TS]

00:10:31   saying to people is it starts out like [TS]

00:10:33   Agatha Christie novel and then you [TS]

00:10:34   realize it's actually more like 1984 [TS]

00:10:36   because really what you end up with is [TS]

00:10:38   this takeover of English government [TS]

00:10:40   through this assassination that happens [TS]

00:10:42   and the farthing set this with this [TS]

00:10:44   group of people who were who were key to [TS]

00:10:46   the deal with Hitler that's cut that [TS]

00:10:48   keeps the English it from being invaded [TS]

00:10:52   and instead makes them allies of of the [TS]

00:10:54   Germans leads to uh you know they you [TS]

00:10:59   can see that it's going to start [TS]

00:11:00   happening the rounding up the roundup of [TS]

00:11:02   the Jews and and because Lucy and her [TS]

00:11:06   husband because she married a Jewish man [TS]

00:11:09   David Kahn who have you know very nice [TS]

00:11:11   smart man in the end up having to try [TS]

00:11:13   and and escape the country because [TS]

00:11:15   they're going to be you know they're [TS]

00:11:19   going to actually he gets framed for [TS]

00:11:20   this murder because the whole idea here [TS]

00:11:22   is to set this up as a Jewish conspiracy [TS]

00:11:24   when in fact they're killing this guy [TS]

00:11:25   because he was against these sort of [TS]

00:11:29   these anti-semitic policies and was [TS]

00:11:32   going to be to have enough power to [TS]

00:11:34   maybe change the course of events and so [TS]

00:11:36   they they killed him so that they could [TS]

00:11:37   take a takeover and the got this guy who [TS]

00:11:39   you meet early on mark Normandy Normanby [TS]

00:11:41   who you view as being this kind of scary [TS]

00:11:45   kind of awful person and and maybe he [TS]

00:11:48   actually did it [TS]

00:11:49   and in the end the result is not just [TS]

00:11:51   that he did it that the result is that [TS]

00:11:52   he's the Prime Minister [TS]

00:11:54   wouldn't be profit tremendously oh my [TS]

00:11:57   god this was only a little bit yeah I [TS]

00:11:59   had a little bit of an undercut with [TS]

00:12:01   this book in that I was missing formed [TS]

00:12:03   as you which was the first book in the [TS]

00:12:05   series on Halfpenny first so I already [TS]

00:12:10   knew everything happened in front of [TS]

00:12:13   that makes it a little less effective it [TS]

00:12:14   does yeah it does it does take a little [TS]

00:12:17   bit of thunder there's still a lot to [TS]

00:12:18   like in the first book i think even with [TS]

00:12:20   that you know sort of seeing how things [TS]

00:12:22   were put together we'd like a prequel I [TS]

00:12:26   mean you do except the industry where [TS]

00:12:28   you've been doing has been spoiled for [TS]

00:12:29   you haha like you know who murdered the [TS]

00:12:33   person and felt like well alright I [TS]

00:12:35   don't need to worry about that the [TS]

00:12:36   murder plot is still at mega through [TS]

00:12:38   Agatha Christie plot in the sense that [TS]

00:12:39   there are red herrings and you're trying [TS]

00:12:40   to figure out what the the mechanics are [TS]

00:12:42   of how they died in what and who exactly [TS]

00:12:44   was involved but it turns out that it's [TS]

00:12:47   not really that important of the [TS]

00:12:49   mechanics of it was one of the police [TS]

00:12:51   aren't going to be allowed even though [TS]

00:12:52   our detective Carmichael figures it out [TS]

00:12:56   he does figure it all out he can't [TS]

00:12:58   actually do anything about it because [TS]

00:12:59   they've decided to frame David Kahn so I [TS]

00:13:03   said on that level it doesn't matter and [TS]

00:13:05   then it also doesn't matter because [TS]

00:13:06   there's this whole bigger issue which is [TS]

00:13:08   that Normandy is going to be Prime [TS]

00:13:09   Minister and that's really bad but uh [TS]

00:13:12   but that's the whole idea is that 30 the [TS]

00:13:14   guy who gets killed is is actually [TS]

00:13:16   somebody who could stand up to them and [TS]

00:13:18   they're eliminating all possibility for [TS]

00:13:20   for opposition in this takeover of the [TS]

00:13:24   of the British government with these [TS]

00:13:26   fascists basically reminds one of V is [TS]

00:13:28   for Ventura v for vendetta already has [TS]

00:13:30   no no I mean straight it although less I [TS]

00:13:33   mean you're a different end of the lens [TS]

00:13:34   be installed that thing it's like the [TS]

00:13:35   government's moved to a totalitarian [TS]

00:13:37   state [TS]

00:13:38   yeah and it's chilling there's a novel [TS]

00:13:40   called one that for the life of me I [TS]

00:13:42   read this a few years ago and i cannot [TS]

00:13:44   it's impossible to find on google search [TS]

00:13:46   for novel called one there's no way to [TS]

00:13:48   find I cannot recall the afternoon maybe [TS]

00:13:50   someone will and it's this incredibly [TS]

00:13:52   it's like 1984 it's like this in the [TS]

00:13:54   sense that it's it's there's the analogy [TS]

00:13:57   of shifting to a totalitarian state that [TS]

00:13:59   happens sort of so subtly and so many [TS]

00:14:02   incremental steps that you don't exactly [TS]

00:14:04   notice that yes the boiling the Frog [TS]

00:14:06   slowly thing [TS]

00:14:07   and I felt like one takes that to an [TS]

00:14:09   extreme where the state is absolutely a [TS]

00:14:12   totalitarian people live their lives [TS]

00:14:13   more or less until they get caught up in [TS]

00:14:15   the apparatus when they fall off I'll [TS]

00:14:17   even accidentally and that's this one is [TS]

00:14:19   much more starkly painted but it's it's [TS]

00:14:22   the ordinariness of it when you're like [TS]

00:14:24   you know off the country estate and [TS]

00:14:26   they're kind of imaginations and then [TS]

00:14:27   it's an excuse it's the it's the horse [TS]

00:14:29   vessel thing it's the burning of the [TS]

00:14:30   Reichstag they keep talking about it [TS]

00:14:32   it's the the martyr that's the excuse to [TS]

00:14:34   then implement martial law and clamp [TS]

00:14:37   down and make everything much much much [TS]

00:14:39   worse thing that got to me was it we [TS]

00:14:40   reminded me a bit of there's an [TS]

00:14:43   interview with Ray Bradbury in one of [TS]

00:14:45   the issue editions of fahrenheit 451 [TS]

00:14:48   that came out mid two thousand or so and [TS]

00:14:52   what's fascinating about that interview [TS]

00:14:54   was always that you know people are [TS]

00:14:56   saying to him also you know it's a book [TS]

00:14:58   about censorship right mrs. well not [TS]

00:15:00   exactly because the people in fahrenheit [TS]

00:15:02   451 sort of asked for the password [TS]

00:15:05   soporific effects of you know being you [TS]

00:15:10   know inoculated via television etc etc [TS]

00:15:12   and it strikes me is that this is sort [TS]

00:15:14   of a similar approach to a certain [TS]

00:15:15   extent in that you have all these people [TS]

00:15:18   who seem to be very into like you know [TS]

00:15:20   hating the Jews already so there's never [TS]

00:15:23   like oh great this is just what we're [TS]

00:15:25   looking for this sort of indicates our [TS]

00:15:26   entire philosophy and that's an [TS]

00:15:29   interesting approach to that because it [TS]

00:15:32   shows that you know well obviously the [TS]

00:15:35   same thing has to happen in Germany to a [TS]

00:15:37   certain extent right is the you know [TS]

00:15:40   despite how charismatic Hitler's and how [TS]

00:15:41   he comes to power there's a certain [TS]

00:15:43   amount of complicity coming from the pot [TS]

00:15:44   general populace who are not fighting [TS]

00:15:46   back against that and that seems to be [TS]

00:15:48   very much what's happening in England [TS]

00:15:50   too and in fact is you know we go along [TS]

00:15:52   and further books has become like people [TS]

00:15:53   were there not like harsh enough that [TS]

00:15:56   was a great line in later book which is [TS]

00:15:58   not exactly spoil where spoiler [TS]

00:15:59   precisely when someone says oh I hear [TS]

00:16:02   you're a fascist the person chuckles and [TS]

00:16:04   says well I'd like to be or something [TS]

00:16:06   like that yeah well you need a treat [TS]

00:16:08   fascism very positively and it's hard to [TS]

00:16:09   think of that is like a its soul is such [TS]

00:16:12   a loaded term from our point of view [TS]

00:16:14   given our history it's weird to see it [TS]

00:16:17   in a context where it's not considered [TS]

00:16:19   like an insult [TS]

00:16:21   aight because if you call someone a [TS]

00:16:23   fascist today there are very few people [TS]

00:16:25   who would take that as a compliment [TS]

00:16:27   now in the third book there's there's [TS]

00:16:28   also that line that is that is a fashion [TS]

00:16:31   that sounds like fun action was a good [TS]

00:16:34   bit of fun yeah one of the things that [TS]

00:16:35   is true in this book as well as the [TS]

00:16:37   other two books in the series is that we [TS]

00:16:38   alternate between the view of carmichael [TS]

00:16:40   RR policeman who's investigating this [TS]

00:16:43   crime and in all three books there there [TS]

00:16:46   is a young woman who is fairly innocent [TS]

00:16:51   and brought up to believe sort of in the [TS]

00:16:53   base beliefs of English society in this [TS]

00:16:57   world and then has her beliefs [TS]

00:16:59   challenged in some way and that happens [TS]

00:17:02   in all three of these books but in this [TS]

00:17:04   case you know we've got we've got the [TS]

00:17:06   example of Lucy where she's uh she's her [TS]

00:17:10   through her marriage she's caused this [TS]

00:17:12   the this kind of an issue and you think [TS]

00:17:14   well good for her that she went ahead [TS]

00:17:16   and has a mixed marriage even though the [TS]

00:17:18   the snooty English people don't like it [TS]

00:17:21   but then you realize that we're entering [TS]

00:17:22   into an England where anti-semitism is [TS]

00:17:25   going to run rampant and it's actually a [TS]

00:17:26   much bigger problem for her but she [TS]

00:17:28   still got a lot of these these attitudes [TS]

00:17:31   that of end and you can see her kind of [TS]

00:17:34   fighting as she realizes what is [TS]

00:17:36   actually happening in her country as it [TS]

00:17:39   goes which I really like because you do [TS]

00:17:40   you see it you see that long slide and [TS]

00:17:43   it's not you know it's not any server [TS]

00:17:45   twisting mustaches of evil people write [TS]

00:17:47   it this progression [TS]

00:17:49   it's just one small move after another [TS]

00:17:51   like you said it's like boiling the [TS]

00:17:52   water with the frog in it it's one small [TS]

00:17:54   move after another that inevitably leads [TS]

00:17:57   to this terrible result it's horribly [TS]

00:18:00   possible [TS]

00:18:00   that's what makes them battling and i [TS]

00:18:02   think im gonna listen a spoiler i think [TS]

00:18:04   as the books progress as you get further [TS]

00:18:06   from the branch we can talk about that [TS]

00:18:08   but i think especially in this first [TS]

00:18:10   book and and someone in the second it's [TS]

00:18:13   it's which takes place in a not too [TS]

00:18:15   distant period of time from the first so [TS]

00:18:18   right on the cusp actually uh you you [TS]

00:18:21   get the sense of something that is so I [TS]

00:18:23   had a reading it actually be upset like [TS]

00:18:26   watching the election coverage and so [TS]

00:18:27   forth because it was hard to read the [TS]

00:18:30   three of them actually quite rapid [TS]

00:18:32   the one after the other three books and [TS]

00:18:33   I had to keep reminding myself that this [TS]

00:18:35   wasn't actually the reality I was facing [TS]

00:18:37   even though it's sort of a time's your [TS]

00:18:39   rhetoric that made you think you might [TS]

00:18:40   be I i wonder how what how everybody [TS]

00:18:42   reacted to reading this book i was [TS]

00:18:44   really affected by it and to the point [TS]

00:18:47   where I didn't read the second book [TS]

00:18:48   right away even know why I really [TS]

00:18:50   enjoyed this book and it was one of [TS]

00:18:52   those that is the second Joe wall novel [TS]

00:18:54   that I read I thought okay she's great [TS]

00:18:55   i'll read anything that she writes [TS]

00:18:57   because she's she's great and I will [TS]

00:18:58   even if it's a book about dragons [TS]

00:19:00   wearing hats i will read it it's [TS]

00:19:02   strangely enough she has that book right [TS]

00:19:04   Scott she does i'm reading right now [TS]

00:19:06   saying dragons wearing hats what's that [TS]

00:19:08   we see the spoiler alert i'm sorry too [TS]

00:19:11   thin cloth that's right that's the big [TS]

00:19:12   thing is that the turns out there's a [TS]

00:19:14   dragon with a hat [TS]

00:19:15   exactly I to think Laura had with a [TS]

00:19:18   dragon underneath it [TS]

00:19:19   ah i just i spent like the next week [TS]

00:19:22   thinking about this book and in a [TS]

00:19:24   because it is it ends so darkly that the [TS]

00:19:28   this is not a happy ending in any [TS]

00:19:31   stretch of the imagination [TS]

00:19:32   Britain is sliding into into [TS]

00:19:35   totalitarianism and the the Jews are [TS]

00:19:38   being persecuted and it's just it's just [TS]

00:19:41   awful and as somebody who in addition to [TS]

00:19:44   generally being against totalitarianism [TS]

00:19:46   and fascism is also in it is also [TS]

00:19:50   married to shut somebody who's Jewish I [TS]

00:19:52   i did deeply extra extra disturbing and [TS]

00:19:57   and I couldn't move to book two because [TS]

00:19:59   i was a just it was very effective in [TS]

00:20:02   making you think what if it were you in [TS]

00:20:04   a way that then I think I said on a [TS]

00:20:06   previous podcast of what we're talking [TS]

00:20:08   about [TS]

00:20:09   Paolo Bacigalupi right that one of his [TS]

00:20:12   tricks was that he does just enough to [TS]

00:20:15   put you in the mind that it's you in [TS]

00:20:18   that terrible situation he says you know [TS]

00:20:20   he does those tricks where he make sure [TS]

00:20:22   that they're like blonde the refugees [TS]

00:20:25   who have no money in her and are are are [TS]

00:20:27   fighting each other make sure that [TS]

00:20:30   they're blonde and red headed and things [TS]

00:20:31   like that he says that it's like you [TS]

00:20:33   can't just say a rich white Americans [TS]

00:20:36   you can't just say this is something [TS]

00:20:37   that happens to other people somewhere [TS]

00:20:38   else in the world who don't look like me [TS]

00:20:39   and Joe Walton does that too in this [TS]

00:20:41   book I feel like as I'm going through it [TS]

00:20:43   because it's set in England I have such [TS]

00:20:45   an affinity [TS]

00:20:45   44 England and they you know they speak [TS]

00:20:48   our language and their us right and you [TS]

00:20:50   see this happening and it makes it that [TS]

00:20:51   much more effective so I was really I [TS]

00:20:53   was really affected by it i wonder what [TS]

00:20:56   you guys felt just got to remember that [TS]

00:20:58   far back [TS]

00:20:59   let me think well I was I was I didn't [TS]

00:21:02   read them all in rapid succession but I [TS]

00:21:03   was quite hit by the the tragedy that is [TS]

00:21:07   the character of carmichael even the [TS]

00:21:09   first blow yeah I mean it's the ending [TS]

00:21:11   it'sit's he's just trying to do the [TS]

00:21:13   right thing and the and he is he [TS]

00:21:16   believes in the system for most of the [TS]

00:21:17   book and he just wants to you know solve [TS]

00:21:20   this crime and he does solve it then he [TS]

00:21:22   is not allowed to actually bring justice [TS]

00:21:25   to the the situation and and they use a [TS]

00:21:30   his personal life against him and [TS]

00:21:32   threaten him so that he has to do that [TS]

00:21:35   you know the thing that he doesn't want [TS]

00:21:36   to do it all and just sit idly by and it [TS]

00:21:39   only gets worse for him in the next book [TS]

00:21:40   so we should say that not only is our 11 [TS]

00:21:44   protagonist I'm in this situation where [TS]

00:21:46   she's married a Jewish man and this is [TS]

00:21:47   Kai a huge compromise because what's [TS]

00:21:49   happening in the country but our other [TS]

00:21:51   protagonist the the cop who just wants [TS]

00:21:53   to solve the crime [TS]

00:21:54   it turns out he's gay and he that is [TS]

00:21:57   used that is used against him to make [TS]

00:21:59   not only is he not allowed to solve the [TS]

00:22:01   crime but he basically gets a promotion [TS]

00:22:02   to be under the thumb of the evil prime [TS]

00:22:06   minister and with this blackmail he [TS]

00:22:09   cannot be kind of can't get out of it [TS]

00:22:12   souls unitarian mind that at this period [TS]

00:22:14   that's illegal aliens you engravers yes [TS]

00:22:18   and it's not really becoming a more [TS]

00:22:19   liberal society you know the opposite [TS]

00:22:22   direction [TS]

00:22:23   well I mean and you know that that part [TS]

00:22:25   does not really diverge from the [TS]

00:22:26   historical precedent to say it was [TS]

00:22:28   illegal [TS]

00:22:28   yeah how long you remember Alan Alan [TS]

00:22:30   Alan himself because of what he had to [TS]

00:22:32   face and yeah it's uh it's is also the [TS]

00:22:36   the residence there's two is that you [TS]

00:22:37   know they're Jews lived in Berlin during [TS]

00:22:39   World War Two not that many of them [TS]

00:22:42   there under the protection of a powerful [TS]

00:22:43   Nazis who like those performers there's [TS]

00:22:45   a fiction they were told it can play [TS]

00:22:47   been converted in whatever and they [TS]

00:22:48   ordered the same thing it's like they [TS]

00:22:50   took a total ought to do exactly what [TS]

00:22:51   their master sponsors said they will be [TS]

00:22:54   sent off the concentration camp so it's [TS]

00:22:56   not that [TS]

00:22:56   you have these sort of token you know [TS]

00:22:58   closeted homosexuals in England during [TS]

00:23:00   this period would otherwise be sent off [TS]

00:23:02   to camps on the continent in this book [TS]

00:23:04   where they shipped off all the people [TS]

00:23:06   they want to get rid of the gym you know [TS]

00:23:07   that the Jews who have papers or [TS]

00:23:09   whatever it's not that weird that you'd [TS]

00:23:11   have people under the thumb that was [TS]

00:23:13   what Hoover you know did in this country [TS]

00:23:15   i well it's all about leverage right [TS]

00:23:17   like they've all got they've got [TS]

00:23:18   leverage over him and he's useful and [TS]

00:23:20   can be controlled as opposed to someone [TS]

00:23:23   else you put in the same situation who [TS]

00:23:24   might not have that right [TS]

00:23:26   all I know is you got to be really [TS]

00:23:26   careful that what kind of tea drinking [TS]

00:23:28   this book apparently uh huh yeah it [TS]

00:23:30   turns out Carmichael city gives you've [TS]

00:23:32   given everything away been in china tea [TS]

00:23:34   your cable yet it's a is outrageous [TS]

00:23:37   your tea sir ren what had you end up [TS]

00:23:40   feeling after you read this book I was [TS]

00:23:43   feeling very very disturbed after [TS]

00:23:45   reading the end of the first because the [TS]

00:23:47   first really does kind of build up in [TS]

00:23:49   the last couple chapters yeah she breaks [TS]

00:23:52   down the hammer yeah yeah yeah well i [TS]

00:23:54   mean it's it's at the point where that [TS]

00:23:56   you know Lucy Khan and her husband have [TS]

00:23:59   to basically go on the run and think [TS]

00:24:01   like criminals to get out of the country [TS]

00:24:03   and I you kind of really hits home for [TS]

00:24:07   his picture is everywhere as this killer [TS]

00:24:10   and he didn't do it and yeah and and [TS]

00:24:13   they have to they have to hide and [TS]

00:24:14   change their appearance and try to flee [TS]

00:24:16   because they are being set up and its [TS]

00:24:19   really yeah it's really tough it's a [TS]

00:24:21   dark ending [TS]

00:24:23   yeah and boy was it lucky that you know [TS]

00:24:25   her governess ends up being somebody who [TS]

00:24:28   can go very conveniently shit people out [TS]

00:24:30   of the country future Canada but I I'm i [TS]

00:24:34   finished farthing and then almost [TS]

00:24:37   immediately downloaded the second book [TS]

00:24:39   and started reading like I ate it was [TS]

00:24:43   really strange because i didn't know [TS]

00:24:45   from the progression I didn't actually [TS]

00:24:47   know that it would be a different main [TS]

00:24:49   character I and the way the format was [TS]

00:24:52   the books were going to change as as we [TS]

00:24:55   move from book 12 book to write I don't [TS]

00:24:57   have expected to see Luci and can happen [TS]

00:25:00   but exactly i was like oh well you know [TS]

00:25:02   I want to know what happens to them and [TS]

00:25:04   they're like four or [TS]

00:25:05   Ben Canadian French children but yeah [TS]

00:25:09   there [TS]

00:25:10   well that's the that's the interesting [TS]

00:25:11   thing I find about her writing style for [TS]

00:25:14   these books in general is it's a it's [TS]

00:25:17   very intriguing to me that she chose the [TS]

00:25:19   first person for loose for all three of [TS]

00:25:22   her female narrators and there's a [TS]

00:25:24   female narrator in each one of the books [TS]

00:25:26   yes but they're different narrators [TS]

00:25:28   right but all young young women who are [TS]

00:25:30   very fit into the culture and yet and [TS]

00:25:33   then have a disillusioning moment and [TS]

00:25:35   those are all first person and [TS]

00:25:36   Carmichael is not first person each one [TS]

00:25:38   of them chooses a very specific way to [TS]

00:25:41   react to the solution but i might [TS]

00:25:44   interesting [TS]

00:25:44   yeah I but it's interesting that [TS]

00:25:48   Carmichael to me always stays you know [TS]

00:25:52   distant to a certain extent even when in [TS]

00:25:55   the third book we get you know a lot [TS]

00:25:56   more of his personal history and [TS]

00:25:58   personal past it's this it's a weird [TS]

00:26:02   sort of screen because even though he's [TS]

00:26:04   technically are you know he's our link [TS]

00:26:07   protagonist he's in all three of the [TS]

00:26:09   books I didn't feel like I knew him the [TS]

00:26:11   best until two thirds of the way through [TS]

00:26:14   the 3rd book at which point sort of [TS]

00:26:15   clicked with me like this is this whole [TS]

00:26:18   thing is Carmichael story and the you [TS]

00:26:21   know the first person protagonists are [TS]

00:26:22   just there to basically provide color [TS]

00:26:24   which you don't really connect ok we're [TS]

00:26:27   going we're going to fire up the spoiler [TS]

00:26:29   horn right here for the second book [TS]

00:26:31   I really loved him that I just thought I [TS]

00:26:33   something about about the way the [TS]

00:26:36   characters written i just i really [TS]

00:26:37   enjoyed his point of view and his agony [TS]

00:26:41   and and what he was trying to do to be [TS]

00:26:42   right and is there a little breaking bad [TS]

00:26:45   in this to where it's like well you know [TS]

00:26:47   I could be the head of Secret Service [TS]

00:26:49   and I'm gonna kill people and torture [TS]

00:26:51   them and set of torture procedures and [TS]

00:26:53   be all dick cheney and the end of the [TS]

00:26:56   first book is basically he gets building [TS]

00:26:58   a good man and go back and forget all [TS]

00:27:00   this nonsense yes which is which to me [TS]

00:27:03   is a very affecting part of that which [TS]

00:27:05   is the fact that he's basically so I [TS]

00:27:08   mean the key thing is he tells Lucy to [TS]

00:27:12   run right i mean not explicitly but he [TS]

00:27:14   basically lets her know that they're [TS]

00:27:16   coming to arrest until he calls he calls [TS]

00:27:19   the house [TS]

00:27:20   Ryan called her and says we're gonna [TS]

00:27:22   come and get you exactly [TS]

00:27:23   don't don't flee or anything exactly [TS]

00:27:26   don't don't run away to canada weighing [TS]

00:27:28   come over and that was for me the point [TS]

00:27:29   where i really started to like Lucy [TS]

00:27:32   because for the beginning of the book [TS]

00:27:34   she's very she's and you know I think [TS]

00:27:37   this was clearly intentional but she's [TS]

00:27:39   so fluttery and so like you know clearly [TS]

00:27:44   she thinks about the issues but she's [TS]

00:27:45   always sort of talking yourself down and [TS]

00:27:47   things like that it's just i found her a [TS]

00:27:48   little bit more annoying at that but [TS]

00:27:50   she's you know with the whole i love [TS]

00:27:51   that scene my favorite thing in the [TS]

00:27:52   entire book might be the scene where she [TS]

00:27:54   realizes they have to run so she goes up [TS]

00:27:56   and she's thinking very practically [TS]

00:27:57   about anything she steals a bunch of [TS]

00:27:59   stuff from her mom that you can hock [TS]

00:28:00   later for money and she just does it [TS]

00:28:02   right like she was like I don't even [TS]

00:28:03   think about it I just when did this [TS]

00:28:05   thing like all right here we go now I'm [TS]

00:28:06   starting to identify should take some [TS]

00:28:08   pressure this precious diamond that has [TS]

00:28:10   been getting notifications accidentally [TS]

00:28:12   takes this huge diamond it's the pearl [TS]

00:28:14   of india and then you end up with the [TS]

00:28:16   scene with with Carmichael III also [TS]

00:28:19   quite liked but where he essentially [TS]

00:28:21   gets betrayed right by his sidekick Tom [TS]

00:28:25   and you know and one of the things that [TS]

00:28:29   sort of harder to get especially if you [TS]

00:28:31   read the second book first is why not [TS]

00:28:33   going to continue to what you getting at [TS]

00:28:35   though [TS]

00:28:35   well why would you you know like why [TS]

00:28:37   would you continue to work with this guy [TS]

00:28:38   great he doesn't necessarily have a [TS]

00:28:40   choice in the matter but also he sort of [TS]

00:28:41   forgives him right you know it's like [TS]

00:28:42   well you know he was just doing this is [TS]

00:28:45   job and it doesn't really hold it [TS]

00:28:47   against and it's like East Germany were [TS]

00:28:49   you know Easter me and yes like they [TS]

00:28:50   found out later everybody was spying on [TS]

00:28:52   everybody and the recriminations in the [TS]

00:28:55   you know the sort of either still going [TS]

00:28:57   through it now material still being [TS]

00:28:59   recovered in I don't how many people [TS]

00:29:00   were nice to me or some tens of millions [TS]

00:29:02   right and some substantial percentage of [TS]

00:29:04   the adult population at one point other [TS]

00:29:06   was on stassi's pay and file reports as [TS]

00:29:09   that's how you kept yourself and your [TS]

00:29:11   family from being destroyed and despite [TS]

00:29:13   the government's nature and its evilness [TS]

00:29:15   most people were just under observation [TS]

00:29:17   they weren't harmed so you can tell [TS]

00:29:18   yourself all i'm doing is keeping things [TS]

00:29:20   or this person to go to jail they're not [TS]

00:29:22   going to be disappeared [TS]

00:29:23   this is just part of keeping order and [TS]

00:29:25   it's that slippery slope [TS]

00:29:27   yeah this they reminded me of the lives [TS]

00:29:30   of others which is a great movie if you [TS]

00:29:31   haven't seen it about about the life of [TS]

00:29:33   people in east germany there's a [TS]

00:29:36   spymaster and there's somebody who's [TS]

00:29:37   being spied on and it's a bent one of [TS]

00:29:39   the best movies i've ever seen actually [TS]

00:29:41   remember the bit in the probable [TS]

00:29:42   lightness of being where uh there's a [TS]

00:29:44   bit where covers the protagonist come [TS]

00:29:47   back to Czechoslovakia was a bit we [TS]

00:29:50   realize is one of his close friends has [TS]

00:29:52   basically been informing on him all [TS]

00:29:54   along and I kind of shrug those huh [TS]

00:29:56   like I guess that's what it looks like [TS]

00:29:58   and every now that's something all these [TS]

00:30:01   books is that there is that it was just [TS]

00:30:04   like it's just this is the way the world [TS]

00:30:05   is and you know it's not [TS]

00:30:08   it happened so gradually and then it's [TS]

00:30:10   just--that's this is how it is now we [TS]

00:30:11   have you know Norman be as prime [TS]

00:30:13   minister and you know basically we all [TS]

00:30:15   agree that that far think it's a really [TS]

00:30:17   good book right for removal [TS]

00:30:20   I got a little during in effecting a [TS]

00:30:22   different i liked it it was a mean again [TS]

00:30:25   it was hard to judge it for its own [TS]

00:30:27   merits yes he went by your situation [TS]

00:30:29   yes your unstuck in time and I find [TS]

00:30:32   myself [TS]

00:30:33   unfortunately having to compare it to [TS]

00:30:36   Dorothy stairs who is also quoted in the [TS]

00:30:39   front piece of a penny [TS]

00:30:40   I mean clearly is an inspiration for [TS]

00:30:43   these books and while this different you [TS]

00:30:46   know deals with a very different subject [TS]

00:30:48   matter in many ways the the in the part [TS]

00:30:52   of it that is sort of plano module most [TS]

00:30:53   tutor thesairs I found falls a little [TS]

00:30:55   bit flat for me and that's only because [TS]

00:30:57   Dorothy serious isn't it [TS]

00:30:58   absolutely fantastic writer and those [TS]

00:31:00   books are you know way up there for me [TS]

00:31:02   but it's still I still found them [TS]

00:31:04   enjoyable it's it's it's you know it [TS]

00:31:08   isn't those books right it sits inside [TS]

00:31:10   right now clearly now I mean those are [TS]

00:31:12   very strict laws are mysteries and you [TS]

00:31:14   know they're right in the similar period [TS]

00:31:15   and stuff like that right where is this [TS]

00:31:17   is the it's like this more directive [TS]

00:31:19   again that you have the mystery part is [TS]

00:31:21   not the most important part yeah the [TS]

00:31:23   altar mr. anticipating it so hey penny [TS]

00:31:25   is funny because it's the it's the plot [TS]

00:31:27   to kill Hitler Hitler comes is going to [TS]

00:31:30   come to to London for a visit and watch [TS]

00:31:33   a play because of course that the old [TS]

00:31:36   good assassination attempt happen in the [TS]

00:31:38   theater that's just how it is because [TS]

00:31:40   they were you out in public so so we [TS]

00:31:42   have while watching hamlet of course yes [TS]

00:31:43   so so hit was coming to see to see a [TS]

00:31:47   play [TS]

00:31:47   well he's coming for other things but [TS]

00:31:48   they're gonna happen to see a play with [TS]

00:31:49   with the Prime Minister he's a big he [TS]

00:31:52   loves the theater Hitler hub and I and [TS]

00:31:55   Carmichael is put in charge of of [TS]

00:31:57   security isn't he [TS]

00:31:59   or he's no he's investigating a bombing [TS]

00:32:02   because there's a bombing we're uh an [TS]

00:32:06   actress [TS]

00:32:07   it's blowing up inexplicably why were [TS]

00:32:10   they blow up an actress and it begins to [TS]

00:32:11   unravel and it turns out that that's [TS]

00:32:13   part of this this you know an artist / [TS]

00:32:17   they were they were practicing they're [TS]

00:32:19   practicing to blow up Hitler in his [TS]

00:32:21   energy bar exactly exactly wanna not you [TS]

00:32:25   don't want to [TS]

00:32:25   amateur blow-up Hitler you want to get [TS]

00:32:27   it professionally you're going to blow [TS]

00:32:28   up Hitler you don't want to blow them up [TS]

00:32:29   a little you want to blow them up all [TS]

00:32:31   the way not just part of the way [TS]

00:32:33   no half Hitler blow up something else [TS]

00:32:34   only you gotta really blow him up so so [TS]

00:32:38   so Carmichael is investigating this [TS]

00:32:40   which is funny because now we've got our [TS]

00:32:43   are compromised hero here put on the [TS]

00:32:47   case of trying to prevent people killing [TS]

00:32:50   Hitler and Norman B who are awful people [TS]

00:32:53   and psyche a Carmichael except whoo know [TS]

00:32:58   yet been incredibly difficult as a I [TS]

00:33:01   don't know I i had a lot of trouble with [TS]

00:33:04   first of all I a lot of trouble with the [TS]

00:33:06   narrator who I just found also the other [TS]

00:33:10   the other characters viola who is this [TS]

00:33:12   actress who is at casting this gender [TS]

00:33:15   reverse which is a trend in in this [TS]

00:33:18   alternate world it's a trend of the [TS]

00:33:20   theatre in london is to gender reverse [TS]

00:33:22   plays so it's a gender reversed Hamlet [TS]

00:33:24   and she is she's kind of annoying it's [TS]

00:33:28   just did the itch to her motivations are [TS]

00:33:31   just on like I don't know it's a lot of [TS]

00:33:34   hand waving right like it [TS]

00:33:36   oh why are you going along with this [TS]

00:33:37   plot well you're kinda shit laughing [TS]

00:33:40   it's well yeah I didn't love with this [TS]

00:33:42   guy but are you sure she gets it over [TS]

00:33:45   she gets an overhead and and she's in [TS]

00:33:47   with the plotters and she's not she's [TS]

00:33:50   doing she's totally an overhead but she [TS]

00:33:52   goes along with it and yeah that she's [TS]

00:33:54   kind of romance by the guy but also ship [TS]

00:33:56   side of really he's kinda wrapped he's [TS]

00:33:58   kind of a sure he's a jerk but yeah I [TS]

00:34:01   mean he is a controller Irish anarchist [TS]

00:34:04   it took me a very long time to peg the [TS]

00:34:06   relationship between the two of them and [TS]

00:34:07   then I realized and I wondered if this [TS]

00:34:09   was intentional [TS]

00:34:10   it reminded me very much is I presume [TS]

00:34:13   least some of you have seen notorious [TS]

00:34:15   very good movie it's a fantastic movie [TS]

00:34:17   but what gives what struck me about is [TS]

00:34:18   basically it's a simple it's a movie in [TS]

00:34:20   which Ingrid Bergman is basically [TS]

00:34:22   convinced to narc on her husband who is [TS]

00:34:24   like a not to use flee to South America [TS]

00:34:26   or not is yeah more Nazi well he does so [TS]

00:34:30   Harry grant is the is the is the sort of [TS]

00:34:33   the ue American spy who's like her [TS]

00:34:35   handler essentially and is trying to [TS]

00:34:36   convince her and they sort of also fall [TS]

00:34:38   in love is going on but sometimes he [TS]

00:34:39   treats a lot of time he treats her very [TS]

00:34:41   callously and very coldly and his name [TS]

00:34:44   is Devlin which is like the thing where [TS]

00:34:45   I was like wait a second like because [TS]

00:34:47   that's the name of the character in a [TS]

00:34:48   penny to and so I wondered if some of [TS]

00:34:50   that dynamic was taken away or is sort [TS]

00:34:52   of an homage to that because it reminded [TS]

00:34:55   me very much of that same thing that [TS]

00:34:56   even seen for their driving around the [TS]

00:34:57   car together and I don't know it's like [TS]

00:34:59   it's very interesting how many parallel [TS]

00:35:02   started right there which is a master of [TS]

00:35:04   illusion as we know from among others [TS]

00:35:06   she can weave in I mean heard it's very [TS]

00:35:09   its original but boy they're just so [TS]

00:35:11   many things that ring bells here without [TS]

00:35:13   making it feel derivative you but you're [TS]

00:35:15   right that file is a damaged it and [TS]

00:35:18   annoying character and she she's got a [TS]

00:35:20   lot of she just kind of gets mixed up in [TS]

00:35:22   it and there's a lot of sort of like [TS]

00:35:24   well should I do it should I not do it [TS]

00:35:26   and.and that's year not to be hm [TS]

00:35:30   and all the time you're trying to eat [TS]

00:35:31   you know you do you have to do end up [TS]

00:35:33   having to like pull yourself back every [TS]

00:35:34   five seconds and be like wait it's [TS]

00:35:36   Hitler of course you should love them [TS]

00:35:38   black yeah like that was the whole day I [TS]

00:35:40   don't know I thought that was a clever [TS]

00:35:41   it is cover it hurts my head a little [TS]

00:35:44   bit yeah I mean there's even a bit she [TS]

00:35:45   meets Hitler and she's like I'm charming [TS]

00:35:48   he says charmila is this [TS]

00:35:50   I like this mustache when you're rooting [TS]

00:35:52   for Carmichael and then you like you do [TS]

00:35:55   get that lovely scene at the end where [TS]

00:35:57   officers like all the crap i just say [TS]

00:35:59   Miller whether he'll drive so at the end [TS]

00:36:01   he does succeed in Normandy into the [TS]

00:36:03   warding this plot and and Hitler is [TS]

00:36:05   unwanted unwanted Normanby is wounded [TS]

00:36:08   but survives and there is a line in the [TS]

00:36:11   third book where we're Carmichael says [TS]

00:36:14   what we've been thinking in the second [TS]

00:36:15   book which is I didn't realize until [TS]

00:36:17   after it was done that I could have just [TS]

00:36:18   done nothing and they would have both [TS]

00:36:20   been dead and that would have been [TS]

00:36:21   better if he just he just literally his [TS]

00:36:23   his policeman instincts take over and [TS]

00:36:26   that and that's the just wants to do it [TS]

00:36:27   he's the guy doing is just doing his job [TS]

00:36:28   and and we're so programmed in watching [TS]

00:36:31   this in in reading this book to be a [TS]

00:36:33   crime to be solved you want the cracks [TS]

00:36:35   are all be a virgin when our friend to [TS]

00:36:37   do his job and do it well we don't you [TS]

00:36:38   know all these things we want to have [TS]

00:36:40   happen and then you have to say but it's [TS]

00:36:42   Hitler just kill him right but but [TS]

00:36:45   Hitler even though even though it's not [TS]

00:36:48   actually a good thing that that he's [TS]

00:36:50   been set upon by his superiors easier [TS]

00:36:53   he's doing his job and in some ways with [TS]

00:36:54   Carmichael I mean that's all he's got [TS]

00:36:55   right first off he's being blackmailed [TS]

00:36:57   basically and you know this is the only [TS]

00:36:59   thing it's what he knows how to do and [TS]

00:37:03   and so he does it and that kind of [TS]

00:37:07   compliance of all the people to not [TS]

00:37:08   comply with this situation and yet he is [TS]

00:37:11   enforcing heat you know it's the gay man [TS]

00:37:14   that in the in this in this of the [TS]

00:37:17   oppressive society and yet he's the one [TS]

00:37:19   who's enforcing enforcing the society [TS]

00:37:22   and keeping it together even though it's [TS]

00:37:25   completely antithetical to everything he [TS]

00:37:26   believes because it's his job to do it [TS]

00:37:29   which is which only gets stepped up in [TS]

00:37:31   the third book when he's got even more [TS]

00:37:33   authority is his reward right in in [TS]

00:37:35   doing his job [TS]

00:37:36   okay great thanks now you're the head of [TS]

00:37:37   the secret police [TS]

00:37:38   yeah i think is cute everybody yeah joe [TS]

00:37:40   yeah best promotion and yeah excellent [TS]

00:37:44   work in saving Hitler he gets a medal I [TS]

00:37:46   believe too i think it was like its [TS]

00:37:48   environmental and get ya to Germany [TS]

00:37:50   metal music he gets to fly there and [TS]

00:37:52   he's got the Zeppelin privileges now for [TS]

00:37:55   our out of the state there are selfless [TS]

00:37:56   by the way in the in the key question [TS]

00:37:58   are are there Zeppelin's is elegant [TS]

00:38:02   history and all these books not only is [TS]

00:38:03   it a parallel universe and that means [TS]

00:38:05   that there is Evelyn's but also the [TS]

00:38:07   Germans are successful in the war and of [TS]

00:38:10   course the Germans love the Zeppelin's [TS]

00:38:11   cuz you know reception is there really a [TS]

00:38:15   German where the earlier on is it that's [TS]

00:38:17   the that's the thing if you ever wonder [TS]

00:38:18   if your if your reality is shifted and [TS]

00:38:20   your inner alter history Mars have to [TS]

00:38:22   check others up against you as well [TS]

00:38:24   maybe twice if you're in an alternate [TS]

00:38:26   timeline yes we had this I i was talking [TS]

00:38:28   to a friend of mine just yesterday and [TS]

00:38:30   she said Zeppelin's are so impractical [TS]

00:38:32   why would they have issues watching [TS]

00:38:34   fringe she was watching the the edges [TS]

00:38:36   like why would you [TS]

00:38:37   they're slow there why would you have [TS]

00:38:39   them and I said the only reason you have [TS]

00:38:41   to miss to say hey we're in a parallel [TS]

00:38:43   universe that's why the resemblance and [TS]

00:38:45   one day at my office I there's a [TS]

00:38:47   Zeppelin that goes around occasionally [TS]

00:38:48   in the bay area giving tours and I [TS]

00:38:50   sought out the window and I had a moment [TS]

00:38:51   of like who's the President and charles [TS]

00:38:54   lindbergh know it's what color is the [TS]

00:38:56   Statue of Liberty mr. Bitler is the [TS]

00:38:58   president actually has no president [TS]

00:39:00   whatever what happened was i saw i saw [TS]

00:39:02   the I saw the Zeppelin and I said wait a [TS]

00:39:04   second apples the most valuable company [TS]

00:39:06   in the world the giants won the world [TS]

00:39:07   series we got a black guy in the white [TS]

00:39:09   house and maybe we are in a parallel [TS]

00:39:11   universe the Zeppelin problems it [TS]

00:39:14   that's right but I promise for your butt [TS]

00:39:17   so I liked it I liked this book even [TS]

00:39:19   viola is really an annoying character [TS]

00:39:21   because i really enjoy Carmichael coming [TS]

00:39:23   to the fore here in solving this solving [TS]

00:39:25   this crime that you don't want him to [TS]

00:39:27   solve and and yet you know this point [TS]

00:39:29   there's not dead they know is not dead [TS]

00:39:32   and and what's interesting too is that [TS]

00:39:36   in violence narration she's she's [TS]

00:39:41   narrating at which you mean the you [TS]

00:39:43   assuming that means I'm next giveaway [TS]

00:39:44   that she's not gonna die [TS]

00:39:46   probably because she's able to narrate [TS]

00:39:48   it and as as it goes you get hints that [TS]

00:39:51   she's [TS]

00:39:52   not in a very good place here well and [TS]

00:39:54   this is interesting to a certain extent [TS]

00:39:56   because you do get this despite the fact [TS]

00:39:57   that those characters marry in the first [TS]

00:40:00   person and i think one was arguing that [TS]

00:40:02   you you always keep your distance from [TS]

00:40:04   carmichael to a certain extent was [TS]

00:40:06   fascinating to me is that those [TS]

00:40:07   narratives are far more colored right [TS]

00:40:09   because in Lucy's case anyway she's [TS]

00:40:11   written it down right that's actually [TS]

00:40:13   her that's her bones are counting the [TS]

00:40:15   storm wise comes back certain extent i [TS]

00:40:17   don't know if you get that as much with [TS]

00:40:18   Viola explicitly but I also there was [TS]

00:40:21   something in the third book to the [TS]

00:40:22   extent that I've read now where the [TS]

00:40:24   narrator remark something about well you [TS]

00:40:27   know that's how I remember it now or [TS]

00:40:28   that's how I'm relating it or something [TS]

00:40:29   like that so you also get this idea of [TS]

00:40:31   sort of a like someone recounting a [TS]

00:40:33   story right whereas the ones with [TS]

00:40:35   Carmichael are actually you're in the [TS]

00:40:37   moment right you're Willam listening to [TS]

00:40:39   him so in some ways you are more distant [TS]

00:40:41   from his thoughts but the same time [TS]

00:40:42   you're closer to him because you're [TS]

00:40:44   right with him as he is discovering all [TS]

00:40:45   these things it's not done from like a [TS]

00:40:47   retrospective position i liked a penny [TS]

00:40:49   what let's move on if there are no [TS]

00:40:52   objections to talk about half a crown [TS]

00:40:54   ok will fire off the spoiler [TS]

00:40:56   [Music] [TS]

00:40:57   and spoiler horn hit Dan and now he's [TS]

00:41:02   dead [TS]

00:41:02   sorry Dan that's the spoiler someone why [TS]

00:41:07   didn't you save me [TS]

00:41:08   Carmichael so half-a-crown your book I [TS]

00:41:10   just read this last week I I space these [TS]

00:41:12   out a little bit rather than completely [TS]

00:41:14   consuming them in one you know in one [TS]

00:41:16   sitting or or very short period of time [TS]

00:41:20   and in this one [TS]

00:41:22   Carmichael has risen to basically being [TS]

00:41:25   the head of of the Gestapo the [TS]

00:41:27   Englishman stop the English to stop on [TS]

00:41:29   the watch for more polite [TS]

00:41:31   yeah well of course when they have t [TS]

00:41:33   exactly and and so now he's he's in [TS]

00:41:35   charge of the secret police and end is [TS]

00:41:39   still under the thumb of Normandy who's [TS]

00:41:40   now this wounded guy him and there are [TS]

00:41:43   more extreme elements of society that [TS]

00:41:45   are kind of conspiring against him which [TS]

00:41:47   is really scary because wait a second [TS]

00:41:49   you know it's like he's not bad enough [TS]

00:41:51   we need somebody even more extreme and [TS]

00:41:54   even more evil is soft on terrorism but [TS]

00:41:57   they are building a there they are [TS]

00:41:58   building a concentration camp in England [TS]

00:42:00   so that they don't have to ship their [TS]

00:42:02   prisoners to Europe to have the progress [TS]

00:42:04   yeah oh yeah that's entirely things are [TS]

00:42:08   going yeah things are going swimmingly [TS]

00:42:10   we want our concentration camps [TS]

00:42:11   british-made that's right and and the [TS]

00:42:14   and then the alternate story here is his [TS]

00:42:19   ward basically who is the daughter of [TS]

00:42:22   his partner who gets gunned down in the [TS]

00:42:25   in the showdown at the end of the second [TS]

00:42:27   book right [TS]

00:42:28   yep not right like they're in the car [TS]

00:42:31   and get out and he gets yeah he gets [TS]

00:42:34   shot so it sort of way the the the [TS]

00:42:38   narrator here is his ward so he's he's [TS]

00:42:40   sort of adopted her his partner's [TS]

00:42:42   daughter because his partner's wife [TS]

00:42:44   written left them and and so he he [TS]

00:42:49   doesn't really raised her he sends her [TS]

00:42:50   off to a series of good schools and she [TS]

00:42:52   gets a a education far beyond what she [TS]

00:42:57   would have gotten as a a cometer [TS]

00:42:59   essentially and she knows all these high [TS]

00:43:01   society people and she's going to be [TS]

00:43:03   introduced at a at a I don't even know [TS]

00:43:07   what it is but to the queen that you [TS]

00:43:08   taught coming [TS]

00:43:09   yeah she's coming out as a deadbeat [TS]

00:43:11   coming out year it introduced to society [TS]

00:43:13   yes she went to a finishing school in [TS]

00:43:15   Switzerland and he's gets her anything [TS]

00:43:17   that she needs because he feels totally [TS]

00:43:19   guilty about the fact that his partner [TS]

00:43:21   was shot in that previous book and we [TS]

00:43:24   can get whatever she wants because he's [TS]

00:43:26   the head of the secret police secret [TS]

00:43:28   police yeah they also speaking of coming [TS]

00:43:30   out he's also managed to disable her [TS]

00:43:32   gaydar while she's growing up so that [TS]

00:43:34   she's incapable of perceiving that he [TS]

00:43:36   and his partner Jack are in love and [TS]

00:43:39   potentially sleeping together but not [TS]

00:43:40   while she's there is mad his office [TS]

00:43:42   she's off at school most of the time I [TS]

00:43:44   think it was easier what happens when [TS]

00:43:45   you live in manservants it was easier to [TS]

00:43:47   hide [TS]

00:43:48   that's my true feeling and and is [TS]

00:43:49   whatever she never stayed with him now [TS]

00:43:52   oh is that right no she did she live [TS]

00:43:53   with them during when she wasn't on [TS]

00:43:55   issues just usually off [TS]

00:43:56   no no no she says that she had a room [TS]

00:43:59   but she almost never stayed there she [TS]

00:44:01   was always with friends or she was off [TS]

00:44:02   at school and she she basically never [TS]

00:44:04   mean he heat she was his ward but at [TS]

00:44:08   arm's length sort of the whole I don't [TS]

00:44:10   think I got that he never stayed I say [TS]

00:44:11   yeah you got you got the sense that he [TS]

00:44:13   was unwell wouldn't be proper just [TS]

00:44:15   because I guess that's true to confirm [TS]

00:44:17   that there's a lot of you know I should [TS]

00:44:19   bring up at this point that's one of the [TS]

00:44:20   things that it sort of gets a more and [TS]

00:44:22   more so that the books like they're all [TS]

00:44:23   kinds of homosexuals this book and all [TS]

00:44:25   kinds of things and you're like it she [TS]

00:44:28   she dwells a little too much like I [TS]

00:44:30   realize the plot device is part of like [TS]

00:44:31   blackmailing people because you know [TS]

00:44:34   then the under the thumb but the Prime [TS]

00:44:36   Minister is gay and the guy who was [TS]

00:44:38   killed with his name in the first book [TS]

00:44:40   he's potentially maybe he was gay but no [TS]

00:44:42   he was having an affair it's like lying [TS]

00:44:44   in the third book there's the guy who's [TS]

00:44:45   like that in high up in the government [TS]

00:44:48   who write who is actually sympathetic to [TS]

00:44:51   getting rid of Norman B and he's getting [TS]

00:44:53   too big a get some is fine but it's just [TS]

00:44:56   the funny part is i think she deals with [TS]

00:44:57   it's a little cold and this person is [TS]

00:44:59   what they call the Apollonian what's the [TS]

00:45:01   Apollonian was like a name remember yeah [TS]

00:45:05   that in numbers book Athena Athena yeah [TS]

00:45:08   me and this is something that yeah yeah [TS]

00:45:10   yeah it's their their their code for it [TS]

00:45:12   it's just a little coy I think in some [TS]

00:45:13   ways there's a great scene within [TS]

00:45:16   half-a-crown ricky carmichael takes jack [TS]

00:45:18   to a gay bar like one of the only safe [TS]

00:45:21   gay bars oh yeah in London and he hates [TS]

00:45:24   it he doesn't like that is an attack [TS]

00:45:26   digging that is a fantastic scene [TS]

00:45:28   because thats that moment that is part [TS]

00:45:31   of the moment where you really kind of [TS]

00:45:32   start to get a sense of carmichael and [TS]

00:45:34   it is almost in the inverse because he [TS]

00:45:36   he takes Jack there because it's their [TS]

00:45:38   anniversary and we've seen Jack a little [TS]

00:45:40   bit but he's not really been much of a [TS]

00:45:42   character and here it's sort of like you [TS]

00:45:44   know you see you think about him having [TS]

00:45:46   to act like the manservant and be in the [TS]

00:45:49   background all the time and wonder what [TS]

00:45:51   his life would be like and then here we [TS]

00:45:52   get the reverse switches that Carmichael [TS]

00:45:54   does what he wants and goes to this club [TS]

00:45:57   and hates every minute of it and ends up [TS]

00:46:01   talking to the bartender for a little [TS]

00:46:02   while the bartender listens to her [TS]

00:46:04   sorrows and sort of understands the best [TS]

00:46:05   bartenders do and the bartender's like I [TS]

00:46:08   should stop talking to you because [TS]

00:46:09   you're your guys gonna be jealous but [TS]

00:46:12   that's fascinating to because they're [TS]

00:46:14   like he recognizes people there [TS]

00:46:16   it turns out that the the emissary from [TS]

00:46:19   Imperial Japan who's going to the piece [TS]

00:46:21   tortoise is there uh it's it's just and [TS]

00:46:26   that there's some really and I tried to [TS]

00:46:28   imagine it actually is a movie because [TS]

00:46:30   there's there's a scene where there [TS]

00:46:31   there's some of some of them in there [TS]

00:46:33   are dressed as women and there's a man [TS]

00:46:35   who's passing fairly well as well as a [TS]

00:46:37   woman and they dance and it's just I i [TS]

00:46:41   thought this would be this great scene [TS]

00:46:43   in a movie because it's it's it's it's [TS]

00:46:47   it's completely inverting your usual [TS]

00:46:49   expectation of a man and a woman on a [TS]

00:46:51   dance floor and it react it's just it's [TS]

00:46:53   i really love that scene because it says [TS]

00:46:55   so much and so much about the oppression [TS]

00:46:58   and so much about the the the [TS]

00:47:00   undercurrent of society and these people [TS]

00:47:02   are involved in this terrible society [TS]

00:47:04   and yet they have this one place where [TS]

00:47:05   they can go and then also contact the [TS]

00:47:07   Carmichael just hate it it's just not [TS]

00:47:09   for him he's completely suppress [TS]

00:47:12   everything about that part of his [TS]

00:47:14   identity [TS]

00:47:14   it's just not part of who he is so in [TS]

00:47:18   this this book is interesting because a [TS]

00:47:20   it's a it's clearly they want the last [TS]

00:47:24   book because it's come to a head things [TS]

00:47:28   come to a head right instead of it being [TS]

00:47:30   this well in a series of novels [TS]

00:47:31   Carmichael you know is is getting Jews [TS]

00:47:35   out of England on the side while in [TS]

00:47:37   investigating things and doing horrible [TS]

00:47:39   things for the government but no in fact [TS]

00:47:42   in this book [TS]

00:47:43   he's got powerful enemies they know and [TS]

00:47:46   can blackmail him as well it's sort of [TS]

00:47:49   the other police force and there's this [TS]

00:47:51   infighting because this is the sort of [TS]

00:47:53   government is starting to crack up a [TS]

00:47:54   little bit mirror these these competing [TS]

00:47:56   factions and and and the plot against [TS]

00:47:59   Norman B and it comes to a head where [TS]

00:48:03   his ward is arrested because she goes to [TS]

00:48:07   this fascist rally because it might be [TS]

00:48:09   fun fashion that sounds like a kick and [TS]

00:48:12   but there to fascist well thatthat's the [TS]

00:48:14   things that turns it turns into a rally [TS]

00:48:16   that's an anti Normanby rally because he [TS]

00:48:18   doesn't go far enough right [TS]

00:48:20   and then there's a riot and she gets [TS]

00:48:21   arrested in the poll leader of the [TS]

00:48:23   police feels like he can use her against [TS]

00:48:27   Carmichael and Carmichael duh does [TS]

00:48:32   increasingly dangerous things because he [TS]

00:48:35   doesn't want to be pushed around and I [TS]

00:48:36   think he feels on another level like he [TS]

00:48:38   sort of has nothing to lose and and it [TS]

00:48:42   all falls I mean it all falls apart kind [TS]

00:48:45   of pretty dramatically to the point [TS]

00:48:47   where he first off he just walks up to [TS]

00:48:51   the place where the transferring her [TS]

00:48:53   from one jail to the place where they're [TS]

00:48:55   going to torture her and just says we're [TS]

00:48:57   taking her which shows that his attitude [TS]

00:48:59   is the watch can do whatever the police [TS]

00:49:01   can you know can suck it [TS]

00:49:04   the world we're going to take we're [TS]

00:49:05   gonna take her we're gonna walk away we [TS]

00:49:08   just like wow I mean totally you know [TS]

00:49:10   totally above the law [TS]

00:49:11   totally outside it whatever we think of [TS]

00:49:13   the society it's like totally against [TS]

00:49:15   the rules to do something and he's like [TS]

00:49:16   whatever I'm the head of the watch i can [TS]

00:49:18   do whatever i want but what happens is [TS]

00:49:19   that they he takes her and they take [TS]

00:49:22   Jack and that's that that's the really [TS]

00:49:24   as many many things that happened at the [TS]

00:49:26   end of this book that are positive they [TS]

00:49:28   take Jack and he doesn't make it [TS]

00:49:30   he he kills himself rather than give up [TS]

00:49:33   secrets about Carmichael and which is [TS]

00:49:36   which is just tragic [TS]

00:49:38   it's it's terrible and there's a moment [TS]

00:49:40   where Carmichael thinks about giving up [TS]

00:49:42   the [TS]

00:49:43   girl just to get his guy back and feels [TS]

00:49:47   incredibly guilty about it afterward but [TS]

00:49:49   so you know he ends up on the run and [TS]

00:49:51   it's it's amazing because you're [TS]

00:49:53   thinking I i don't know i read it as you [TS]

00:49:56   know i'm reading a series and you almost [TS]

00:49:57   expect the premise to stay steady and [TS]

00:50:00   instead she blows it up like halfway [TS]

00:50:02   through this book everything has [TS]

00:50:03   completely been blown up [TS]

00:50:05   yeah i'm i'm gonna tell you right off i [TS]

00:50:07   have it was really disappointing because [TS]

00:50:09   I felt like super like you say she broke [TS]

00:50:11   the mood [TS]

00:50:12   there's too much change there's a she [TS]

00:50:16   tries to pack too much in and then you [TS]

00:50:18   get the Irish revolutionary who is a war [TS]

00:50:20   hero comes back and I do something [TS]

00:50:23   stupid [TS]

00:50:24   where it's barely explaining i'm looking [TS]

00:50:26   at the end with the sort of giant she's [TS]

00:50:28   a very bad sniper [TS]

00:50:29   yeah well I wanted to say really quickly [TS]

00:50:32   about the three female characters right [TS]

00:50:37   was saying earlier on so as not to give [TS]

00:50:39   away spoilers that you know they all [TS]

00:50:41   make very specific decisions and in part [TS]

00:50:44   based on their class I think and I think [TS]

00:50:46   it's very interesting and kind of [TS]

00:50:48   fascinating that the girl who was [TS]

00:50:50   brought up entirely in high society [TS]

00:50:53   chooses to flee rather than face you [TS]

00:50:57   know fascism and everything that's going [TS]

00:50:59   on right the girl who was brought up in [TS]

00:51:01   high society and then turns her back on [TS]

00:51:04   it [TS]

00:51:05   who is viola because she's I mean it was [TS]

00:51:07   established that she's pretty she is a [TS]

00:51:09   you know a used to be an artist anything [TS]

00:51:12   like that shes black superficial burns [TS]

00:51:14   she spurns that she decides if she [TS]

00:51:17   decides to basically blow up it would ya [TS]

00:51:20   light and then we get we get rolls [TS]

00:51:25   royces daughter Elvira who is by all [TS]

00:51:29   rights and means a commenter who has [TS]

00:51:31   been given the rights of a noble and she [TS]

00:51:34   chooses to basically use these and turn [TS]

00:51:38   them into something like Carmichael [TS]

00:51:40   where she chooses to basically [TS]

00:51:41   investigate and uncover and eventually [TS]

00:51:45   goes to the queen with her [TS]

00:51:47   yeah so so II I i kinda like the fact [TS]

00:51:54   that everything gets blown up and falls [TS]

00:51:56   pieces because this whole series is [TS]

00:52:00   about like weird and dark and England [TS]

00:52:02   and bad feelings and all that i was [TS]

00:52:05   surprised by the end of this book [TS]

00:52:06   because she tries to put a happy ending [TS]

00:52:08   on this series and and I it's a little [TS]

00:52:12   bit of a queen ex machina well no I mean [TS]

00:52:16   in the end in the end it's sort of like [TS]

00:52:18   but the spirit of the British people [TS]

00:52:20   comes two comes to life at the end they [TS]

00:52:23   don't they don't like the fact sending [TS]

00:52:25   people to a concentration camp on the [TS]

00:52:27   continent [TS]

00:52:28   that's fine but we're not going to build [TS]

00:52:30   a concentration camp here that's not [TS]

00:52:32   British that's terrible [TS]

00:52:34   and the Queen has something to say about [TS]

00:52:35   it and mcqueen you know i get it i don't [TS]

00:52:39   know i mean it it's nice that it's a [TS]

00:52:40   happy ending but it didn't it didn't [TS]

00:52:42   seem particularly realistic to me that [TS]

00:52:44   that would be the solution to all of [TS]

00:52:46   this is that they would you know they [TS]

00:52:48   would they would take his police files [TS]

00:52:51   that proved that Normandy was involved [TS]

00:52:53   in the plot from the first book and and [TS]

00:52:55   give it to the Queen and simultaneously [TS]

00:52:57   hit you no virus talking to the queen [TS]

00:53:00   and the guy who got the book from [TS]

00:53:01   carmichael is waiting right behind her [TS]

00:53:04   to give the book to the Queen a in you [TS]

00:53:08   know she wanted a happy ending so she [TS]

00:53:09   gave them one she's giving the speech [TS]

00:53:11   she's giving the speech the Queen gives [TS]

00:53:13   a talk at this extensible peace [TS]

00:53:15   conference which is sort of dividing up [TS]

00:53:17   the planet into different realms and [TS]

00:53:19   she's like Hitler's right there [TS]

00:53:21   she's giving this talk about England [TS]

00:53:22   turning its back and whatever i'm like [TS]

00:53:24   well he might just choose to invade this [TS]

00:53:27   point all right right because he's well [TS]

00:53:28   but he's like this point and I'm we're [TS]

00:53:30   talking about 19 what 64 65 Hitler this [TS]

00:53:33   point is an older man and it sounds like [TS]

00:53:35   while germany's you know we gonna look [TS]

00:53:37   this is a mellow hitting hell yeah well [TS]

00:53:41   they and their extended because they're [TS]

00:53:42   carving of prussia and they've got mean [TS]

00:53:44   thatthat's I did wonder about that that [TS]

00:53:46   that what are the consequences of this [TS]

00:53:48   for England England end up getting yeah [TS]

00:53:50   getting attacked or do they just sort of [TS]

00:53:53   let them let them go off and and [TS]

00:53:55   democracy it's not as well it's not [TS]

00:53:57   necessarily a phantom mean just [TS]

00:54:00   replacing Normanby doesn't necessarily [TS]

00:54:02   mean the backing off a little bit is not [TS]

00:54:04   the same as turning their back on [TS]

00:54:06   well that's what Carmichael kind of says [TS]

00:54:08   the end of the second [TS]

00:54:09   the book where it's like yeah you can [TS]

00:54:10   kill Hitler and kill Normanby but the [TS]

00:54:13   country is so far down the rabbit hole [TS]

00:54:16   fascism that a new leader is not going [TS]

00:54:19   to magically cure it's a slow process [TS]

00:54:21   but that's why her for her premise here [TS]

00:54:23   is that is that enough of this happens [TS]

00:54:25   that it's a bridge too far that the [TS]

00:54:27   society that the oppression gets a [TS]

00:54:28   little too extreme and people who would [TS]

00:54:31   go along with it to a point it goes [TS]

00:54:34   they push it a little too far and then [TS]

00:54:36   people say oh well this is indecent you [TS]

00:54:37   shouldn't do that and it's things like [TS]

00:54:39   the like the concentration camp opening [TS]

00:54:42   up and there's that scene where they're [TS]

00:54:43   on the TV show and they announced so [TS]

00:54:46   we're gonna have a concentration camp [TS]

00:54:47   right here in England and people start [TS]

00:54:50   to feel like what wait a second that's [TS]

00:54:52   not right so that's her premises that [TS]

00:54:53   pushed far enough eventually the fraud [TS]

00:54:56   realizes that it's in boiling water and [TS]

00:54:58   it jumps out well I guess what she's [TS]

00:54:59   trying to say i think that people were [TS]

00:55:01   gradually more and more comfortable with [TS]

00:55:02   it but they found themselves in like an [TS]

00:55:04   East German situation you know before [TS]

00:55:06   the wall comes down and there's not much [TS]

00:55:08   to send in the center sort of shipped [TS]

00:55:10   off to the continent by people like in [TS]

00:55:13   fact Carmichael in the watch but you [TS]

00:55:16   know they're they're sending people off [TS]

00:55:17   all the time and he's smuggling people [TS]

00:55:18   out of the country and you know what he [TS]

00:55:20   has done to send but you know that the [TS]

00:55:21   thing that I didn't like in the in this [TS]

00:55:23   book to is that protest on the peaceful [TS]

00:55:25   protests but the the watch and the [TS]

00:55:28   police are apparently someone over [TS]

00:55:29   extended to with all the security that [TS]

00:55:31   has to happen and you know they haven't [TS]

00:55:33   made every other person a policeman or [TS]

00:55:35   watch officer so the peaceful approach [TS]

00:55:38   to start to happen and chemicals like [TS]

00:55:39   yeah let's not crack down on those let's [TS]

00:55:41   let those just go make sure nothing [TS]

00:55:43   happens and it's negative sentence at [TS]

00:55:44   the name of his so number two guys in on [TS]

00:55:47   shipping out jus secretly and his Jewish [TS]

00:55:50   himself is like the token jew and the [TS]

00:55:52   watch to show the third tolerant or [TS]

00:55:53   something [TS]

00:55:54   I that that whole thing we're like [TS]

00:55:56   Jacobson just sort of that I would [TS]

00:55:58   enforce this will be more peaceful [TS]

00:55:59   protests and nothing can go wrong with [TS]

00:56:01   that and then there's enough peaceful [TS]

00:56:02   protests covered by the media and the [TS]

00:56:04   Queen finds out [TS]

00:56:05   oh my gosh these terrible thing as well [TS]

00:56:07   she's watching people being exported no [TS]

00:56:09   sent away for 20 years to concentration [TS]

00:56:11   camps natural like well I really rather [TS]

00:56:13   didn't like that I think things have [TS]

00:56:14   gone a bit too far so it's time to [TS]

00:56:16   change things i thought it's a little [TS]

00:56:18   too convenient [TS]

00:56:19   yeah although I mean to be fair to the [TS]

00:56:20   queen she would not have [TS]

00:56:22   Ben queen for very long at that point [TS]

00:56:23   she would have only been Queen since 52 [TS]

00:56:28   so Malia was a plot about this okay [TS]

00:56:32   leaders coming back and and that's [TS]

00:56:34   actually a really fascinating thing is [TS]

00:56:35   that her her uncle who was the king who [TS]

00:56:37   abandoned he advocated because you [TS]

00:56:40   wanted to marry American device a wallis [TS]

00:56:43   simpson action is he in this and he was [TS]

00:56:45   he was in reality accused of being a [TS]

00:56:48   Hitler sympathizer yeah and he fled and [TS]

00:56:52   you know when he abdicated lived in [TS]

00:56:54   France for a long time and so in this [TS]

00:56:56   book he is basically a part of the plot [TS]

00:56:59   to overthrow I mean you get the sense [TS]

00:57:02   that it's part of its going to overthrow [TS]

00:57:03   the government and he's gonna basically [TS]

00:57:05   come back and re-establish himself as [TS]

00:57:07   the king and get rid of the rest of the [TS]

00:57:10   Royals and all of that and and put in a [TS]

00:57:12   new fascist the government and so so the [TS]

00:57:17   Queen on one level you know this has [TS]

00:57:19   affected her too and she's young i mean [TS]

00:57:21   she's she's she's young and came to [TS]

00:57:24   power after all of this had already gone [TS]

00:57:26   on so in some ways you could if you want [TS]

00:57:28   to be charitable [TS]

00:57:29   this is the Queen the young Queen [TS]

00:57:33   feeling like she actually can make a [TS]

00:57:34   difference this is the one place where [TS]

00:57:36   she can step in and and get her country [TS]

00:57:38   back on on the right track but i do love [TS]

00:57:41   the logic though it's a time there was [TS]

00:57:43   this point when Russia with his are you [TS]

00:57:45   know he will likely only desire knew [TS]

00:57:46   about what was happening it was always [TS]

00:57:47   that you know if I don't get word to him [TS]

00:57:49   this isn't that there's a movie i think [TS]

00:57:51   in which a very early film in which that [TS]

00:57:53   sort of portrayed of these are finally [TS]

00:57:55   being told that he's like yeah whatever [TS]

00:57:56   i don't care president's gonna go you [TS]

00:57:58   know that like me and that's it like [TS]

00:58:00   well only the Queen wouldn't know well [TS]

00:58:01   this young woman happens to be in the [TS]

00:58:03   right position to know the whole just so [TS]

00:58:05   happens I easy sequence which she gets [TS]

00:58:07   her dress and she manages to change and [TS]

00:58:09   she goes the debutante ball and she [TS]

00:58:10   suggests the queen of Queens man and [TS]

00:58:12   then you get started and she didn't I [TS]

00:58:14   went there looking for around the [TS]

00:58:16   streets they're not looking for her at [TS]

00:58:17   the debutante ball strikes lie would you [TS]

00:58:20   look for her to do so and yeah I just I [TS]

00:58:22   thought this was full of [TS]

00:58:24   I think there's nothing the Duke of [TS]

00:58:25   Windsor plot just goes nowhere sort of [TS]

00:58:27   ridiculous the Irish you know IRA guy [TS]

00:58:30   who becomes a war hero and then you know [TS]

00:58:32   as part of the plan the second 1i didn't [TS]

00:58:34   need to see him again [TS]

00:58:35   well I'm like any shoots he tries to [TS]

00:58:37   shoot Hitler any missing like yeah this [TS]

00:58:39   guy got shot [TS]

00:58:40   what the hell was that like why did you [TS]

00:58:42   even introduce him and then the heart of [TS]

00:58:44   gold of the of you know the else's [TS]

00:58:47   daughter she finds her mother again yeah [TS]

00:58:49   I refines the reminder I would abandon [TS]

00:58:51   her great the stepfather is great too [TS]

00:58:53   and ok no each other all these years for [TS]

00:58:55   what what what yeah Scott what did you [TS]

00:58:59   think I'm I I don't remember much of [TS]

00:59:04   this puck yeah even though that was the [TS]

00:59:06   lambing and obviously i don't know what [TS]

00:59:08   about the Zeppelin's whoo Zeppelin's uh [TS]

00:59:10   escape me although i I uh [TS]

00:59:12   obviously talking about it now has its [TS]

00:59:14   recoup by my memory and I just thought [TS]

00:59:16   that the aisle I looked at the book as a [TS]

00:59:19   character study of carmichael and how he [TS]

00:59:21   is trying to fit into this system that [TS]

00:59:26   he's an outsider right and then because [TS]

00:59:29   it is his homosexual miss yes and so he [TS]

00:59:37   he's trying to be something that he [TS]

00:59:39   isn't because right can't tell people [TS]

00:59:41   about it right and that he becomes even [TS]

00:59:43   more of something that he isn't and then [TS]

00:59:45   he tries to work against the system [TS]

00:59:46   while he's in the system but he's also [TS]

00:59:49   you know killing the Jews and helping [TS]

00:59:52   the Jews and he's just being pulled in [TS]

00:59:54   so many different directions and he he [TS]

00:59:56   wants to see Hitler died but he has to [TS]

00:59:59   save Hitler [TS]

00:59:59   save Hitler [TS]

01:00:00   because that's his character and then at [TS]

01:00:02   the end you know his his lover is dead [TS]

01:00:05   and his job is gone and uh who knows if [TS]

01:00:10   he's really changed anything or help [TS]

01:00:12   anyone and it's just kind of it's very [TS]

01:00:14   sad [TS]

01:00:15   I just don't like him sort of going off [TS]

01:00:17   jauntily like well jack is dead isn't [TS]

01:00:19   that terrible i'm like oh no no I don't [TS]

01:00:22   agree I think he's I I didn't read that [TS]

01:00:24   way i mean is i think it moved [TS]

01:00:26   I think at the end he is he's what would [TS]

01:00:29   be interesting if there was ever any [TS]

01:00:30   more writing in this in this universe is [TS]

01:00:33   what happens to Carmichael now because [TS]

01:00:35   he is sort of he's lost everything at [TS]

01:00:37   this point i mean i guess he's got his [TS]

01:00:39   young Ward who didn't care about other [TS]

01:00:41   than to make sure out of some sort of [TS]

01:00:43   obligation that she was okay but she's [TS]

01:00:46   it disturbed by the fact that he's gay [TS]

01:00:48   because she's told that and she has the [TS]

01:00:51   feelings that somebody in that society [TS]

01:00:53   apparently would have about that and and [TS]

01:00:55   is he is not offend ya and his partner [TS]

01:00:58   is gone and his job is gone and you know [TS]

01:01:00   he's a representative of this evil [TS]

01:01:03   period in history that that where he's [TS]

01:01:06   he's a war is a terrible terrible [TS]

01:01:07   criminal [TS]

01:01:09   yeah an example of poor human-rights who [TS]

01:01:12   would be like gonna go global or [TS]

01:01:14   Hitler's something yeah so it's like [TS]

01:01:16   he's he's um so that is fascinating that [TS]

01:01:19   is the dark part of this and I i think [TS]

01:01:21   that i think Carmichael is the reason [TS]

01:01:23   that this book is it's good I i liked it [TS]

01:01:26   isn't as good as the other two and the [TS]

01:01:28   ending does seem a little bit too like [TS]

01:01:29   struggle to have a happy ending but [TS]

01:01:31   Carmichael story and and seeing more [TS]

01:01:35   about him [TS]

01:01:36   I thought that was I thought that was [TS]

01:01:37   really good and he really came out to [TS]

01:01:39   the fourth is tragic [TS]

01:01:40   no and it is so it's so sad look for [TS]

01:01:42   will be two-and-a-half quit it will be [TS]

01:01:44   off the truth reconciliation committee [TS]

01:01:46   meetings after the after democracy is [TS]

01:01:49   restored [TS]

01:01:50   well I mean I'll i actually II it's [TS]

01:01:52   funny I I wonder you mentioned that he [TS]

01:01:54   is essentially a criminal and I wonder [TS]

01:01:56   if in a reformed Britain that they might [TS]

01:01:59   put on trial it will work returns and [TS]

01:02:02   and then they would have to bring up and [TS]

01:02:04   then that's when the cons come back and [TS]

01:02:06   explain that he helped them escape and [TS]

01:02:08   that they bring the Jews who he funneled [TS]

01:02:10   to Canada and other places and I mean it [TS]

01:02:12   might be actually kind [TS]

01:02:13   interesting to read the trial of [TS]

01:02:14   carmichael oh he could go all dr. on us [TS]

01:02:17   and travel the world bringing democracy [TS]

01:02:18   another you know bring going into [TS]

01:02:21   Germany with all of his knowledge of all [TS]

01:02:23   the international relations e ad and [TS]

01:02:24   toppling the government's they are [TS]

01:02:26   coming to America and getting the [TS]

01:02:28   Lindbergh successors just a cop [TS]

01:02:30   yes he's not he's been a guy who wants [TS]

01:02:32   to change the world he just wants to do [TS]

01:02:34   his job and and have people are brought [TS]

01:02:36   to justice and he just sucked into this [TS]

01:02:38   whole kind of weird political happening [TS]

01:02:41   that he has no control over he's just a [TS]

01:02:42   pawn for all these forces all and he [TS]

01:02:45   just wants to live his life with Jack [TS]

01:02:46   and be left alone and you know solve [TS]

01:02:48   crimes but he's suddenly you know at the [TS]

01:02:51   end he's a Gestapo head and then you [TS]

01:02:54   know the Queen he's out of work and jack [TS]

01:02:56   is dead and yeah it's really I could [TS]

01:02:59   have a moment I mean I think it's [TS]

01:03:00   realistic that did it would be like well [TS]

01:03:01   you know you you can't be here anymore [TS]

01:03:03   so you're gone but at the same time I [TS]

01:03:06   kept saying but but wait he's good he he [TS]

01:03:09   he he you know he made all this happen [TS]

01:03:12   you you need it shouldn't [TS]

01:03:14   can't somebody isn't there somebody out [TS]

01:03:16   there like the guy who brings the book [TS]

01:03:18   to the Queen say this is Carmichael's [TS]

01:03:20   butthole [TS]

01:03:21   he was funny he was funneling Jews to [TS]

01:03:23   Canada all the time he's not a bad guy [TS]

01:03:26   and you know but he but the tragedy [TS]

01:03:29   there is that as the queen says he's [TS]

01:03:31   Normanby his creation even if if it [TS]

01:03:33   turns out that that's not really true [TS]

01:03:35   he's perceived as being this horrible [TS]

01:03:37   person who is the head of the watch and [TS]

01:03:38   he's part of the Normandy normally thing [TS]

01:03:40   and so he's on the outs which is really [TS]

01:03:42   unfair i think it's i think it's [TS]

01:03:44   realistic that he would be treated that [TS]

01:03:46   way but you you you look at that you [TS]

01:03:48   think it's it's just it's a shame [TS]

01:03:49   because he you know he he had he sort of [TS]

01:03:53   the reason we got to this point but he [TS]

01:03:55   also did all these terrible things as [TS]

01:03:57   the head of the watch and everything [TS]

01:03:58   continues but also it was responsible [TS]

01:04:01   for the death of lots of juice yet I'm [TS]

01:04:03   save Hitler and he saved it lacks so the [TS]

01:04:07   this trilogy in in the end we like it [TS]

01:04:12   recommend it [TS]

01:04:13   let's go around the ren yes I think very [TS]

01:04:16   much so is very very disturbing but I'm [TS]

01:04:20   a fan of alternate history always even [TS]

01:04:24   when it's terrible and these books were [TS]

01:04:26   quite [TS]

01:04:27   good yeah it's you know this is a very [TS]

01:04:28   common you know what if the Nazis won [TS]

01:04:31   World War 2 is a commonplace all history [TS]

01:04:34   subject my i like how how different this [TS]

01:04:37   treatment was from some of the others [TS]

01:04:38   that i've read that you know fatherland [TS]

01:04:40   and James Hogan had a the produce [TS]

01:04:43   operation which was about an alt alt [TS]

01:04:45   world war two and they're there are so [TS]

01:04:46   many there's a whole look of all [TS]

01:04:48   travelers is important ones you brought [TS]

01:04:51   the full dick one the man behind the [TS]

01:04:55   high castle yeah uh Scott recommended [TS]

01:04:58   liked [TS]

01:04:59   well I i think i recommended it to the [TS]

01:05:02   people on this podcast and hence the [TS]

01:05:04   podcast so yes I nude your i would [TS]

01:05:07   recommend it I thought it was very good [TS]

01:05:08   i mean it's very sad so if you're [TS]

01:05:09   looking for this and uplifting trilogy [TS]

01:05:12   perhaps don't read this but I mean I [TS]

01:05:16   haven't enjoyed the fact that I i spent [TS]

01:05:18   a week dwelling on how shocking and [TS]

01:05:21   awful the first book was I mean it the [TS]

01:05:24   resolution of it I liked it but I you [TS]

01:05:26   know you have to like the dark sad [TS]

01:05:29   ending makes you have to think about [TS]

01:05:30   things and record question your life and [TS]

01:05:33   all that I you got to be in that mindset [TS]

01:05:35   but but a very enjoyable [TS]

01:05:38   it's not what I would call a beach read [TS]

01:05:40   unless you like to go on the beach [TS]

01:05:41   unless it's a very enter [TS]

01:05:44   winter cold bloody cold beach and you're [TS]

01:05:48   shivering this boiler hard keeps going [TS]

01:05:50   on [TS]

01:05:51   yeah sound poor me you're mean you read [TS]

01:05:53   but yeah I think John Walton as is a [TS]

01:05:56   fantastic writer and so and i will read [TS]

01:05:59   all of her books and i'm reading the one [TS]

01:06:01   that's right [TS]

01:06:02   dragons thumbs up to her but acts mmm [TS]

01:06:05   yeah [TS]

01:06:06   thumbs up Glenn you too happy I i read [TS]

01:06:08   so lengthy elsewhere the podcast i'll [TS]

01:06:10   just say yeah I recommended even though [TS]

01:06:11   I'm disappointed with half-a-crown not [TS]

01:06:13   so much that they don't read it unlike a [TS]

01:06:15   lot of the trilogy's we discussed on [TS]

01:06:17   this book RSS podcast looks part of the [TS]

01:06:19   podcaster I think it's not a strong [TS]

01:06:22   finish as I'd like she does tie things [TS]

01:06:24   up and the first two books are first one [TS]

01:06:26   especially second quite good and the [TS]

01:06:28   third weaker but as a trilogy it holds [TS]

01:06:30   together she tells the complete story [TS]

01:06:32   and I love her work i'll read her over [TS]

01:06:33   and over again [TS]

01:06:34   yeah i agree i agree this was this was [TS]

01:06:39   good stuff I enjoyable [TS]

01:06:40   in the challenging sense of enjoyable [TS]

01:06:42   but and fun how she mixes a bunch of [TS]

01:06:45   different stuff together like you said [TS]

01:06:46   Glenn the master of illusion she's she's [TS]

01:06:50   got lots of bits of things that she kind [TS]

01:06:51   of sticks together and if she was just [TS]

01:06:54   writing a knockoff of a of a manor house [TS]

01:06:57   mystery it might not be so effective but [TS]

01:06:59   the fact that she's got so many [TS]

01:07:00   different kinds of things in the blender [TS]

01:07:02   and so I i gotta say what versatile [TS]

01:07:05   writer because among others is nothing [TS]

01:07:08   like these books it's just no it's [TS]

01:07:10   nothing like these books book about the [TS]

01:07:12   dragons and the hats is also my business [TS]

01:07:15   it's completely different tone and [TS]

01:07:18   indifferent obviously all the characters [TS]

01:07:20   are dragons so that's quite different [TS]

01:07:21   gas but yeah she's a she i think knows [TS]

01:07:27   how to write [TS]

01:07:27   yeah she's good writer she's written a [TS]

01:07:29   groups book so why not that is who is [TS]

01:07:32   groups groups is role-playing game [TS]

01:07:34   system drop yeah and she writes a we [TS]

01:07:37   should say she writes regularly on [TS]

01:07:40   tor.com she's reads reads books and does [TS]

01:07:45   of interesting commentary she's done a [TS]

01:07:46   reread of the Patrick Rothfuss books the [TS]

01:07:50   name of the wind and wise man's fear in [TS]

01:07:51   great detail and a very detailed reread [TS]

01:07:55   and really good stuff makes me want to [TS]

01:07:57   reread them and and go along with it's [TS]

01:07:59   almost like she's annotating those books [TS]

01:08:01   and so she's she's a good writer even [TS]

01:08:03   when she's writing about other people's [TS]

01:08:06   stuff so that's that's kinda cool to [TS]

01:08:09   that she's out there in the world and [TS]

01:08:10   blogging on tor.com so and I think that [TS]

01:08:14   her voracious reading I get the sense [TS]

01:08:16   she reads a lot that has really informs [TS]

01:08:19   her writing because she has so many [TS]

01:08:21   different interests in so many different [TS]

01:08:23   literary style that she likes that she [TS]

01:08:24   can play with it and get create all [TS]

01:08:26   these crazy mixed-up books that she does [TS]

01:08:28   in a good way [TS]

01:08:29   alright well I think it's time to close [TS]

01:08:30   up the the book club for this week for [TS]

01:08:35   this time and we'll be back [TS]

01:08:37   I i guess i should say we haven't picked [TS]

01:08:40   what our next book club book will be [TS]

01:08:42   have we [TS]

01:08:43   Scott have you picked if you told us [TS]

01:08:45   what to read yeah I suggest the cloud [TS]

01:08:47   atlas [TS]

01:08:47   don't know if anyone is interested oh [TS]

01:08:48   yeah well have not begun yet what we'll [TS]

01:08:51   talk about it will will will put [TS]

01:08:53   something together we'll figure it out [TS]

01:08:54   and one way we do this is that for those [TS]

01:08:57   of you who follow along with the book [TS]

01:08:58   club will post it on our Twitter feed at [TS]

01:09:01   the uncomfortable and we will post it on [TS]

01:09:03   our Goodreads group you can find there's [TS]

01:09:05   a incomparable good group on Goodreads [TS]

01:09:08   and we'll post it there as well so [TS]

01:09:09   you'll know what we're reading and you [TS]

01:09:10   can read it and then listen to the [TS]

01:09:13   podcast and maybe it will be Cloud Atlas [TS]

01:09:15   I don't know I I would be fine with that [TS]

01:09:17   i saw the trailer for that movie and it [TS]

01:09:19   looks crazy [TS]

01:09:20   so we should read the book so that we [TS]

01:09:22   don't have Tom Hanks in our head where [TS]

01:09:26   yeah you probably want to read it before [TS]

01:09:28   she did before we see the movie [TS]

01:09:29   good point good advice yeah yeah and and [TS]

01:09:32   I've Scott that hasn't skipped hasn't [TS]

01:09:34   steered me wrong yet [TS]

01:09:36   high praise yes yet the at the others [TS]

01:09:40   but I you keep the room for disappoints [TS]

01:09:43   coming that's gonna happen just like [TS]

01:09:45   Hitler is gonna come [TS]

01:09:46   no alright so so until next time until [TS]

01:09:50   we pick a book and come back and read [TS]

01:09:52   more books i would like to thank my [TS]

01:09:53   guests Glenn fleischmann thank you for [TS]

01:09:56   being here thank you very much [TS]

01:09:58   IC Zeppelin and for reading any book so [TS]

01:10:01   if you see Zeppelin's then its alternate [TS]

01:10:02   climate i'm speaking to serenity called [TS]

01:10:05   well thank you very much [TS]

01:10:06   you're welcome i'm glad i don't have to [TS]

01:10:09   memorize obscure British currency [TS]

01:10:11   anymore and their orders now that I've [TS]

01:10:13   finished but she didn't even do [TS]

01:10:15   shillings right are things shillings [TS]

01:10:19   yeah showing so I can be the fourth [TS]

01:10:20   there are too many things for that can [TS]

01:10:22   be shillings and Scott McNulty of course [TS]

01:10:26   who reads everything and and sees [TS]

01:10:28   everything and knows everything I knew [TS]

01:10:30   you were going to say it [TS]

01:10:31   yes of course and now we'll go through [TS]

01:10:34   the time machine and thank Dan Morgan [TS]

01:10:35   who went away just say goodbye dan [TS]

01:10:38   thanks for being here even though you [TS]

01:10:39   didn't finish the third book and [TS]

01:10:41   contribute to that part [TS]

01:10:42   well I'm glad to be here and i've been [TS]

01:10:44   reading the third book as you guys have [TS]

01:10:46   been tossing the third book very clever [TS]

01:10:48   i just checked for Zeppelin outside the [TS]

01:10:50   window she keep always watching for [TS]

01:10:52   example which is odd because that's the [TS]

01:10:54   tell-tale sign now [TS]

01:10:56   no thanks Dan Warren thanksgiving [TS]

01:10:58   morning thanks you didn't even though [TS]

01:11:00   he's he had to [TS]

01:11:01   give us because he didn't want to hear [TS]

01:11:03   what he had to say about the third book [TS]

01:11:04   until he finished it's nice that he's [TS]

01:11:05   reading a while we're doing the podcast [TS]

01:11:07   put this baby is finished and how could [TS]

01:11:09   he come back [TS]

01:11:10   yeah it's even its gets keep them off [TS]

01:11:11   the streets I think that's the most [TS]

01:11:13   important thing with damp mean streets [TS]

01:11:15   of something that's exactly right [TS]

01:11:17   so until next time thank you listener [TS]

01:11:19   for listening to another in comfortable [TS]

01:11:21   book club and we'll see you next time [TS]

01:11:33   yeah and boy was it lucky that you know [TS]

01:11:42   her governess ends up being somebody who [TS]

01:11:44   can very conveniently shit people out of [TS]

01:11:47   the country computer camera get yeah [TS]

01:11:49   yeah sure [TS]

01:11:51   Canada's always safe because its a fate [TS]

01:11:53   worse than death [TS]

01:11:54   yeah but it's it's funny because we're [TS]

01:11:59   awful sorry canada my my poor country is [TS]

01:12:04   under the butt of jokes that's okay [TS]

01:12:06   don't let it get to you you're letting [TS]

01:12:08   him and you can't let him get inside [TS]

01:12:09   this silly and Canadian Joe callaway [TS]

01:12:12   Canadians are persecuted in great [TS]

01:12:15   britain you know [TS]

01:12:16   yes here shipped off to where they ship [TS]

01:12:20   them to I don't even know again I knew I [TS]

01:12:22   nobody can I birria de they're used to [TS]

01:12:24   bet that [TS]

01:12:26   yeah subway it's warm haha oh I have the [TS]

01:12:33   episode title its well that's nice a [TS]

01:12:35   brown but how did you like the play [TS]

01:12:38   I don't get it [TS]