The Incomparable

100: Who Cares What We Think?


00:00:07   the incomparable podcast number 100 [TS]

00:00:12   delight well well [TS]

00:00:28   it's the incomparable podcast I'm your [TS]

00:00:30   host Jason L this is a very special [TS]

00:00:32   edition of the uncomfortable and that is [TS]

00:00:34   episode number 100 [TS]

00:00:37   it's a lie i feel like this is a huge [TS]

00:00:39   milestone other than the fact that you [TS]

00:00:41   know we just do a podcast every week and [TS]

00:00:43   in less than two years you are at [TS]

00:00:45   episode 100 but we use a base-10 [TS]

00:00:47   counting system and 100 a milestone so [TS]

00:00:50   I've caught I've gathered together to [TS]

00:00:51   celebrate episode number 100 the five [TS]

00:00:55   panelists on the incomparable who have [TS]

00:00:58   been on the most episodes of this show [TS]

00:01:02   they are the core members of the [TS]

00:01:04   incomparable panel and i'm going to [TS]

00:01:06   introduce them in order of their their [TS]

00:01:10   appearances their number of appearances [TS]

00:01:12   on the show by the way i should say I'm [TS]

00:01:16   Jason Snell who has appeared on 90 of [TS]

00:01:18   the 100 episodes of the uncomfortable so [TS]

00:01:21   one in ten you don't have to listen to [TS]

00:01:22   me but if two-thirds 68 episodes of the [TS]

00:01:29   incomparable have featured the man who's [TS]

00:01:30   on every podcast damn Ouran High Dam I i [TS]

00:01:34   was told there would be no math well I'm [TS]

00:01:36   do i did the math for you [TS]

00:01:38   oh well that's that's well Jason I [TS]

00:01:39   appreciate it's good to be here as I am [TS]

00:01:41   contractually obligated to be on every [TS]

00:01:43   podcast yes or at least two-thirds of [TS]

00:01:44   the incomparable podcast that's a writer [TS]

00:01:46   that we attach later my agent had some [TS]

00:01:48   concerns i love [TS]

00:01:50   also joining me is a serenity caldwell [TS]

00:01:53   who has appeared on exactly half of the [TS]

00:01:57   episodes of the uncomfortable 50 of me [TS]

00:01:59   100 welcome 50 whole episodes i would [TS]

00:02:04   say this feels like a milestone Jason [TS]

00:02:06   accepted it feels like a podcast which [TS]

00:02:08   is pretty much like every other podcast [TS]

00:02:10   pretty much a little hotter today [TS]

00:02:12   yeah that's that's about right also [TS]

00:02:14   joining me Scott McNulty who has [TS]

00:02:16   appeared on 49 of 100 podcast episodes I [TS]

00:02:20   Scott so close to 50 I'm an [TS]

00:02:22   underachiever the next one you'll get [TS]

00:02:24   you'll get there with the next one will [TS]

00:02:27   do something that is a topic that rent [TS]

00:02:29   isn't interested in them then you'll be [TS]

00:02:31   it you'll be on top [TS]

00:02:32   John Syracuse's here he has appeared on [TS]

00:02:34   43 incomparable podcast hai jaan and [TS]

00:02:38   blue and I blew my long game why is it [TS]

00:02:40   43 i was going [TS]

00:02:41   42 what happened I don't know what this [TS]

00:02:43   one counts as number 43 [TS]

00:02:45   if you messed up this encounters for I [TS]

00:02:47   was 42 exactly do we do we start without [TS]

00:02:50   you worry [TS]

00:02:50   does anyone remember now that would put [TS]

00:02:53   me at 44 he's counting this episode is [TS]

00:02:55   he ruined my master papermaster plant [TS]

00:02:57   episode 0 is missing that Voice you [TS]

00:03:00   heard is the man who's been on 38 [TS]

00:03:02   episodes of the uncomfortable one flesh [TS]

00:03:05   you know if you count on number 6 I'm [TS]

00:03:08   number six if you count the number of [TS]

00:03:11   episodes on which I'm ridiculed it gets [TS]

00:03:13   closer to 80 know that's true [TS]

00:03:17   oh that's very true i should also point [TS]

00:03:21   out in the since we're talking [TS]

00:03:22   incomparable trivia here that although [TS]

00:03:24   i've hosted 19 episodes i've actually [TS]

00:03:28   appeared on 93 haha because sometimes I [TS]

00:03:31   appear even though i'm not the host but [TS]

00:03:33   i would like to thank glen and Dan both [TS]

00:03:36   of whom have hosted four episodes of the [TS]

00:03:39   incomparable how is it four episodes [TS]

00:03:41   yeah I memory of that long then retired [TS]

00:03:44   lost amidst the time watching game after [TS]

00:03:46   game hosting episode 42 and music [TS]

00:03:48   episode of futurama episode at three [TS]

00:03:51   you're going to them and then there's [TS]

00:03:53   the light is some games did some game [TS]

00:03:55   episode i remember that and I think I [TS]

00:03:58   pinch-hit for you want him when you were [TS]

00:04:00   out [TS]

00:04:01   yeah but what if you remember all there [TS]

00:04:02   is the last minute I ar-15 cast yeah [TS]

00:04:05   that's right yeah i recall i did a [TS]

00:04:07   disaster three jason i got an important [TS]

00:04:09   question for you are you counting [TS]

00:04:10   additional projects such as our [TS]

00:04:13   wonderful riff track episode who had no [TS]

00:04:17   her know that had no host [TS]

00:04:19   really [TS]

00:04:21   but it did feature for members in fact [TS]

00:04:23   you didn't eat your members of the panel [TS]

00:04:24   that doesn't count either damn great [TS]

00:04:26   nice also hosted an episode and lex [TS]

00:04:28   friedman of course hosted our recent [TS]

00:04:30   jonathan coulton episode as well as an [TS]

00:04:32   alternate universe version of the [TS]

00:04:33   incompetent that's right the fake [TS]

00:04:34   episode be altered the first version so [TS]

00:04:38   the purpose here the topic here and we [TS]

00:04:39   and we do sort of have one that rather [TS]

00:04:41   than just counting up episodes of the [TS]

00:04:43   incomparable for our first hundred [TS]

00:04:44   episodes is to talk about why we do the [TS]

00:04:49   incomparable why is this here and I and [TS]

00:04:52   i'll admit that this idea came to me as [TS]

00:04:55   all my good ideas do in the shower [TS]

00:04:57   because that happens and I we we ran a [TS]

00:05:03   podcast a few weeks ago that was that [TS]

00:05:06   dead involved some criticism of a [TS]

00:05:10   blockbuster movie I'm not gonna I'm not [TS]

00:05:13   gonna name any names but one of the [TS]

00:05:14   panelists didn't like this beloved [TS]

00:05:16   blockbuster movie and and people were [TS]

00:05:18   really upset and I thought that was [TS]

00:05:20   really interesting and I juxtapose that [TS]

00:05:21   with a review that was posted on itunes [TS]

00:05:23   around the same time from a listener who [TS]

00:05:28   apparently listen to one episode but i [TS]

00:05:30   think i think listeners includes Jason [TS]

00:05:32   yeah I was listener that was I look [TS]

00:05:35   floats for implied there who complained [TS]

00:05:37   that all we ever do is praised things [TS]

00:05:39   and recap what happened and not actually [TS]

00:05:43   do anything more insightful than that [TS]

00:05:45   well I thought that review was really [TS]

00:05:46   good and here's what it said uh-huh [TS]

00:05:49   I thought we would just talk about why [TS]

00:05:52   we do the podcast and why we like the [TS]

00:05:54   stuff we do and what's the purpose of a [TS]

00:05:57   of a show like this and and you know it [TS]

00:06:01   when our dear colleagues said he didn't [TS]

00:06:04   like the that superhero movie and quite [TS]

00:06:06   honestly if we've been doing the podcast [TS]

00:06:07   a few years ago I would have said that I [TS]

00:06:09   didn't like the dark knight and people [TS]

00:06:12   would have freaked out about that too [TS]

00:06:13   but we also do episodes where like the [TS]

00:06:16   star wars episodes where although we we [TS]

00:06:18   pick up things were also really just [TS]

00:06:20   talking about something that we that we [TS]

00:06:21   love so and then you know it goes back [TS]

00:06:25   and forth then then you take something [TS]

00:06:26   like the ready ready player one podcast [TS]

00:06:28   where we really just kind of ripped the [TS]

00:06:31   book apart i was not on that one [TS]

00:06:32   the way I kind of liked that book but [TS]

00:06:33   wasn't on it so my question for all of [TS]

00:06:37   you guys is you know why other than your [TS]

00:06:42   devotion to me I suppose [TS]

00:06:44   why you know why do you like being on [TS]

00:06:48   the podcast and you know what is your [TS]

00:06:52   approach when when when you come on i [TS]

00:06:54   mean they are you trying to be critical [TS]

00:06:56   you're trying to just talk about stuff [TS]

00:06:58   that you like what's the what's the [TS]

00:07:00   point of it all why are we here [TS]

00:07:03   John siracusa you are famous for being [TS]

00:07:06   hypocritical it's our said devotion to [TS]

00:07:08   this ancient macworld editor [TS]

00:07:10   haha that's right it's all coming out [TS]

00:07:13   now yeah I've was too i just made the [TS]

00:07:15   joke when you mentioned the topic of the [TS]

00:07:17   show that i was going to sue you for [TS]

00:07:19   stealing the idea for of Christ lon cast [TS]

00:07:23   than everything related to it because [TS]

00:07:25   they are back in 2009 i wrote a blog [TS]

00:07:27   post and ours back when actually blogged [TS]

00:07:29   on ours the title of which was [TS]

00:07:31   hypercritical which some people might [TS]

00:07:33   recognized as the future title of my [TS]

00:07:35   current podcast yes you appeared on the [TS]

00:07:38   incomparable podcast and we're so great [TS]

00:07:41   that damn Benjamin said hey he should [TS]

00:07:42   have his own podcast yeah and it was [TS]

00:07:45   like this was the genesis of it is that [TS]

00:07:46   i wrote a thing about a bit because I [TS]

00:07:49   write a lot of articles and my articles [TS]

00:07:50   i complain about stuff and that like [TS]

00:07:52   that's kind of like my stick right I am [TS]

00:07:55   I first started doing it people would [TS]

00:07:57   decide who i was based on the fact that [TS]

00:08:00   I was complaining about things so here's [TS]

00:08:01   this guy that never seen before and he's [TS]

00:08:03   writing about apple stuff and it's full [TS]

00:08:05   of complaints so this must be somebody [TS]

00:08:07   who hates Apple I didn't take long to [TS]

00:08:10   dispel that notion but it was kind of [TS]

00:08:13   funny to me going from being the mac [TS]

00:08:15   fanboy on the internet to all the sudden [TS]

00:08:17   everyone saying you pc user you probably [TS]

00:08:20   never used back in your life you don't [TS]

00:08:21   like them why you've been writing about [TS]

00:08:22   the right and so that that thing like [TS]

00:08:24   where if you criticize something that [TS]

00:08:26   means like you're taking sides against [TS]

00:08:29   it or something was strange to me and [TS]

00:08:31   funny and so that this much later [TS]

00:08:33   article around uh about the idea of [TS]

00:08:35   criticizing something was trying to [TS]

00:08:37   explain why i personally do it and the [TS]

00:08:40   value that I think there is in [TS]

00:08:41   criticizing something that's kinda like [TS]

00:08:43   I think that Alan cake what you know is [TS]

00:08:45   that you [TS]

00:08:45   Macintosh was the first computer were [TS]

00:08:47   criticizing to me the things i'm most [TS]

00:08:50   interested in criticizing other things [TS]

00:08:52   that could have been great but weren't [TS]

00:08:54   or really really good but just have one [TS]

00:08:56   thing that's a little bit off you know I [TS]

00:08:57   mean so i'm not inclined to do like [TS]

00:09:00   entire podcast about something that I [TS]

00:09:04   see no redeeming value in so for example [TS]

00:09:06   we ripped apart ready player one right [TS]

00:09:08   but that's a science-fiction book about [TS]

00:09:11   people who go around in a video game [TS]

00:09:12   world [TS]

00:09:12   I like that kind of thing right on i'm [TS]

00:09:14   not doing a book about I read this you [TS]

00:09:16   know we didn't read 50 shades of grey [TS]

00:09:18   and write like armies and we never [TS]

00:09:21   planned to wait wait we didn't read that [TS]

00:09:23   I mean we didn't read that [TS]

00:09:26   oh yeah and it's so like it's even [TS]

00:09:29   though where you know all you guys just [TS]

00:09:31   like to rip apart were ripping apart [TS]

00:09:33   things that we read we are interested in [TS]

00:09:35   because it's like it's right up our [TS]

00:09:36   alley [TS]

00:09:36   I totally into books about people [TS]

00:09:38   running around in a virtual video game [TS]

00:09:40   world with a tease like you know it and [TS]

00:09:42   that's that that's one thing that people [TS]

00:09:44   don't get because if you come into it [TS]

00:09:46   thinking that if you say something bad [TS]

00:09:48   about that you know any piece of media [TS]

00:09:51   or whatever you're taking sides against [TS]

00:09:53   it and that's totally not how I view it [TS]

00:09:56   yeah I i agree with that i mean i think [TS]

00:09:59   that it's interesting to hear people's [TS]

00:10:02   complaints about something that I liked [TS]

00:10:03   and I know not lots of people don't [TS]

00:10:05   react that way and we saw that after the [TS]

00:10:08   Avengers podcast is that people a lot of [TS]

00:10:10   people enjoyed it and then when they [TS]

00:10:12   heard the criticism of that they they [TS]

00:10:14   got really mad and that's fine to [TS]

00:10:15   disagree but I I'm always fascinated [TS]

00:10:17   when I hear somebody's complaints about [TS]

00:10:19   something whether I like it or not if [TS]

00:10:21   they go into some detail in it and it [TS]

00:10:23   makes me and makes me think about it and [TS]

00:10:25   that goes to what you said John about [TS]

00:10:27   you know being the first whatever worth [TS]

00:10:29   criticized thing is there is value in [TS]

00:10:32   having something that's worth looking at [TS]

00:10:34   critically at all and if it leads me to [TS]

00:10:37   a place where I appreciate the work more [TS]

00:10:39   i understand it more or I think I [TS]

00:10:41   mentioned this to to it when we did the [TS]

00:10:45   jonathan coulton podcast and I briefly [TS]

00:10:46   got to got to talk to him i mean it i [TS]

00:10:48   love the fact that when I saw inception [TS]

00:10:51   I thought about it for five days and I [TS]

00:10:53   thought about lots of different aspects [TS]

00:10:55   of it and I decided I kind of didn't [TS]

00:10:56   like it but the fact was I really am [TS]

00:10:58   glad that I saw it [TS]

00:10:59   was it had you know it was thought [TS]

00:11:02   provoking and it was worth me that you [TS]

00:11:04   know worth the time for me to think why [TS]

00:11:06   don't I like this and what what's the [TS]

00:11:08   detail my wife and I talked about it and [TS]

00:11:10   anything with you liked it dislike I [TS]

00:11:12   really think that having that ability to [TS]

00:11:15   kind of take it apart and talk about why [TS]

00:11:16   did it work or why did it not work is as [TS]

00:11:19   valuable um you know I I'd I I don't [TS]

00:11:23   have a problem that i know that some [TS]

00:11:24   people that bothers some people but i [TS]

00:11:26   always i love it my favorite um praise [TS]

00:11:29   that i get for the uncomfortable is when [TS]

00:11:31   people say I've seen that movie about [TS]

00:11:33   you know I a half dozen times and had [TS]

00:11:35   never thought about that seemed that way [TS]

00:11:37   until you guys talked about it that way [TS]

00:11:39   and i love that because it shows that [TS]

00:11:41   this stuff that we love even if it's a [TS]

00:11:43   sci-fi movie or you know a sci-fi book [TS]

00:11:45   or whatever it is it can be enhanced by [TS]

00:11:49   that kind of scrutiny whether you're [TS]

00:11:50   loving it or whether you're pointing out [TS]

00:11:52   that the latter on the x-wing doesn't [TS]

00:11:55   have anyplace to go it's still [TS]

00:11:56   interesting well nobody likes to hear [TS]

00:11:59   something that they really like just get [TS]

00:12:01   trashed i mean i think that we all you [TS]

00:12:04   know if there's something you're really [TS]

00:12:05   passionate about is something you really [TS]

00:12:07   care about or book you really like a [TS]

00:12:09   movie that you love [TS]

00:12:10   it's no fun to hear somebody else just [TS]

00:12:12   like trash it right i mean there there's [TS]

00:12:14   a way I think it which is what John is [TS]

00:12:16   saying there is a way to look at these [TS]

00:12:18   things critically and say this is good [TS]

00:12:21   but here are some you know criticisms or [TS]

00:12:25   or you know things that I've noticed [TS]

00:12:27   that perhaps you haven't thought about [TS]

00:12:28   and I think there is value in that I [TS]

00:12:31   also you know I think there's a value in [TS]

00:12:33   talking positively about these kind of [TS]

00:12:36   works as even in cases where you feel [TS]

00:12:40   like you want to be critical because [TS]

00:12:42   there are things that bothered you about [TS]

00:12:43   it it's worthwhile to say what you liked [TS]

00:12:47   about things not only because I think we [TS]

00:12:49   all are in part here because we enjoy [TS]

00:12:51   sharing things that we like with other [TS]

00:12:53   people who we think might like them but [TS]

00:12:56   also because i don't know for me someone [TS]

00:12:59   who has spent time you know trying to [TS]

00:13:01   create something it's nice to feel like [TS]

00:13:04   there are people behind it's nice to be [TS]

00:13:07   remembered that there are people behind [TS]

00:13:08   these things right and these people in [TS]

00:13:11   many cases are trying very hard to [TS]

00:13:12   accomplish [TS]

00:13:13   think they're not always you know [TS]

00:13:14   nailing it perfectly but you know these [TS]

00:13:17   are these are creations born of man and [TS]

00:13:19   so it's nice to see you know that [TS]

00:13:21   recognize and say well I like what this [TS]

00:13:23   person did hear you know that showed [TS]

00:13:24   some thought I fought hard to be on the [TS]

00:13:28   second episode of this podcast primarily [TS]

00:13:30   because i really wanted to talk over a [TS]

00:13:33   series i had just seen sherlock with [TS]

00:13:36   people because at that point I was [TS]

00:13:38   living in a relatively small town in [TS]

00:13:41   western Massachusetts and had absolutely [TS]

00:13:43   no geeky friends in proximity so I had [TS]

00:13:46   just like I just watched sherlock i had [TS]

00:13:49   just started reading some of the books [TS]

00:13:51   that were being discussed in the book [TS]

00:13:52   club in episode 1 and when I found out [TS]

00:13:56   that Jason was doing this it was very [TS]

00:13:57   much a oh gosh finally people I can talk [TS]

00:14:02   about interesting books and movies and [TS]

00:14:05   television with I must be on this [TS]

00:14:07   podcast then I think I pestered you [TS]

00:14:09   until you let me on but I i really enjoy [TS]

00:14:13   coming together and talking about [TS]

00:14:16   subjects that were interested in be a [TS]

00:14:19   television be books i love the format of [TS]

00:14:21   the podcast and that we'd it's not [TS]

00:14:24   necessarily you know we show up every [TS]

00:14:25   week and then we decide what we want to [TS]

00:14:27   talk about but having the idea of all we [TS]

00:14:30   have the book club and we have you know [TS]

00:14:33   TV stuff and we have comics and like all [TS]

00:14:37   I read comics I don't read them heavily [TS]

00:14:39   enough that I want to discuss them with [TS]

00:14:41   other people so it's like it's nice that [TS]

00:14:43   i can go i can sit back and listen to [TS]

00:14:45   things than being comfortable but you [TS]

00:14:48   know i'm i'm not necessarily qualified [TS]

00:14:50   to talk about but when it comes to come [TS]

00:14:54   when it comes to like television when it [TS]

00:14:56   comes to books I it's not only a good [TS]

00:14:59   way to talk about things that I've just [TS]

00:15:01   you know that we've just seen or we've [TS]

00:15:03   just read or listen to but it's also at [TS]

00:15:07   least for me when we're discussing you [TS]

00:15:08   know topics ahead of time of oh you know [TS]

00:15:11   what book should we read what a what TV [TS]

00:15:13   shows have been caught in people's [TS]

00:15:15   memories like there have been a lot of [TS]

00:15:16   books that i read in this last year that [TS]

00:15:18   i would have otherwise just either seen [TS]

00:15:22   and been like oh that sounds cool but [TS]

00:15:24   just not gotten around to it [TS]

00:15:26   or just missed entirely that thanks to [TS]

00:15:29   the incomparable it's like Oh ready [TS]

00:15:32   player one yeah I'll sit down and read [TS]

00:15:34   that in afternoon so we can talk about [TS]

00:15:35   it on a podcast because i think it would [TS]

00:15:37   be fun or name of the wind you know [TS]

00:15:40   they're there are a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:15:42   great podcast some great television some [TS]

00:15:45   really terrible books that I've read all [TS]

00:15:51   thanks to the stuff you're welcome for [TS]

00:15:53   the terrible book huh that's all the [TS]

00:15:56   terrible books had their own you know [TS]

00:15:58   enjoyment because again talking about [TS]

00:16:00   even you know I it's no secret that I [TS]

00:16:02   didn't particularly enjoy the magician's [TS]

00:16:04   but having a group of people to talk [TS]

00:16:07   about with the reasons why i disliked [TS]

00:16:10   the magician's made me made like some of [TS]

00:16:14   the reading of that book okay like oh [TS]

00:16:16   well I had to read this book and I [TS]

00:16:18   didn't really like it but at least I got [TS]

00:16:19   to hear other people's opinions on the [TS]

00:16:21   book and I got to you know debate it [TS]

00:16:23   with some people and that was really fun [TS]

00:16:25   so yeah being comfortable it is a good [TS]

00:16:28   way to learn about media [TS]

00:16:31   well I i read i mean i've read i read [TS]

00:16:33   more books now that i have a kindle and [TS]

00:16:35   then uh then the uncomfortable on top of [TS]

00:16:38   that has made me read a lot more and [TS]

00:16:40   that's a good thing and and you're right [TS]

00:16:42   not not all the books have been good but [TS]

00:16:46   they died I appreciate it and a lot of [TS]

00:16:49   them have been very good and that was [TS]

00:16:51   the idea with the first episode we [TS]

00:16:52   recorded which we didn't even have a [TS]

00:16:55   title for we recorded two episodes [TS]

00:16:56   trials before we even posted any and one [TS]

00:16:59   of them was the the book club episode [TS]

00:17:00   the very first book club and we call [TS]

00:17:02   that specifically to in order to try and [TS]

00:17:07   have that that feeling of a bunch of [TS]

00:17:10   people coming together having read a [TS]

00:17:12   book and and just talking it over and [TS]

00:17:14   and i and maybe getting some interesting [TS]

00:17:17   perspectives that they didn't have when [TS]

00:17:18   they read the book and trying to apply [TS]

00:17:20   that then to anything whether it's a [TS]

00:17:22   comic or a movie or TV show and I i [TS]

00:17:25   think that has worked pretty well [TS]

00:17:27   because a hundred episodes later we're [TS]

00:17:29   still doing and we're still you know [TS]

00:17:30   finding interesting [TS]

00:17:32   boy there's no shortage we just did a [TS]

00:17:33   podcast number 99 that had like what [TS]

00:17:36   like 40 books that we mentioned it's [TS]

00:17:38   great there's never a shortage [TS]

00:17:40   there's so much stuff out there one cut [TS]

00:17:43   particular kind of episode that we do [TS]

00:17:45   are these kind of these praise sessions [TS]

00:17:47   more or less about things that we really [TS]

00:17:49   lovely especially movies that we really [TS]

00:17:51   love and they aren't as critical they [TS]

00:17:54   there is some insight in them but [TS]

00:17:56   they're not you know we're not [TS]

00:17:57   necessarily criticizing the princess [TS]

00:18:01   bride or Star Wars movies or raiders of [TS]

00:18:04   the lost ark when we when we talk about [TS]

00:18:06   them and yet I I don't feel that it [TS]

00:18:08   devolves into hey do you remember that [TS]

00:18:10   scene that was really great I feel like [TS]

00:18:11   when I i hear what other people have to [TS]

00:18:14   say about those movies I'm gaining some [TS]

00:18:16   insight that I didn't have before about [TS]

00:18:19   that movie that i love and i may have [TS]

00:18:21   seen 20 times but that that I know that [TS]

00:18:23   through somebody else's eyes there's [TS]

00:18:24   going to be something else there that I [TS]

00:18:26   hadn't really thought of whether it was [TS]

00:18:28   you know John Gruber talking about [TS]

00:18:29   certain scenes and raiders of the lost [TS]

00:18:31   ark or or John siracusa talking about [TS]

00:18:34   the the han and Leia relationship which [TS]

00:18:36   is one of my favorite moments in any [TS]

00:18:38   uncomfortable that we've done where you [TS]

00:18:40   you parse through and basically say you [TS]

00:18:42   know their relationship has changed by [TS]

00:18:43   the time to get to cloud city and they [TS]

00:18:46   probably had sex and had just blew me [TS]

00:18:48   away i had never ever thought of it that [TS]

00:18:51   way and how many times have I seen the [TS]

00:18:52   empire strikes back so you know those [TS]

00:18:54   aren't critical episodes necessarily in [TS]

00:18:57   the sense of us thinking about the [TS]

00:18:59   negative they're not negative right but [TS]

00:19:00   there-there think you know like you were [TS]

00:19:02   starting out by saying these are things [TS]

00:19:03   that bear enough substance that they are [TS]

00:19:05   worth it there is something there [TS]

00:19:07   there's something there there's more [TS]

00:19:09   than just as on them was just on the [TS]

00:19:10   surface and you can actually dig into [TS]

00:19:13   that and that's not true with every [TS]

00:19:14   movie right there's a lot of or book or [TS]

00:19:17   TV show etc there's all these you know [TS]

00:19:20   there's there's so much crap floating [TS]

00:19:21   around [TS]

00:19:22   I think you know is that surgeons lon [TS]

00:19:24   ninety percent of everything is crap [TS]

00:19:26   moralist so that ten percent of stuff [TS]

00:19:29   that's actually good you know is worth [TS]

00:19:31   delving into to figure out i think for [TS]

00:19:33   us me most was being geeks we have a you [TS]

00:19:37   know an interesting figure out what [TS]

00:19:39   makes things tick why does it work [TS]

00:19:41   why is this successful even if it's not [TS]

00:19:43   successful in every way why is it [TS]

00:19:45   successful in the ways that it is and [TS]

00:19:47   what can we learn from that and that's [TS]

00:19:49   interesting to talk about because you [TS]

00:19:51   know people want to know what makes [TS]

00:19:53   things [TS]

00:19:54   tick or work or why did this movie [TS]

00:19:55   succeed where this other movie that [TS]

00:19:57   seems very much like it on the surface [TS]

00:19:58   fail [TS]

00:20:00   Scott you uh you read a lot of books [TS]

00:20:03   yes many many books [TS]

00:20:06   yes yes all right wait for it is a [TS]

00:20:09   question of do you remember any of them [TS]

00:20:11   Scott anything except not many books i [TS]

00:20:15   remember the one I'm reading right now [TS]

00:20:16   so when we talk about books uh you know [TS]

00:20:19   you you go through a lot and I imagine [TS]

00:20:21   that because I mean read some of the [TS]

00:20:23   books that you recommend i imagine you [TS]

00:20:24   read a lot of books that are that are [TS]

00:20:28   not very good to that are kind of crappy [TS]

00:20:30   books and and you know I think what it [TS]

00:20:33   is interesting about what we tried to do [TS]

00:20:35   here is we don't generally pick on the [TS]

00:20:36   crappy books right we we we tend to [TS]

00:20:38   focus more on the ones that we think are [TS]

00:20:40   worth somebody else's time rather than [TS]

00:20:42   knowingly inflicting like The Magicians [TS]

00:20:44   I didn't knowingly inflict that on [TS]

00:20:45   serenity I I hadn't read it when I said [TS]

00:20:47   we should read it I just thought that [TS]

00:20:49   between that and the night circus we had [TS]

00:20:50   a little bit of sort of synergy there [TS]

00:20:53   about magical kind of books that people [TS]

00:20:55   are talking about it turned out that she [TS]

00:20:57   hated it I know I for one and really [TS]

00:21:00   really glad that Scott McNulty read so [TS]

00:21:02   many books because I basically use him [TS]

00:21:05   as a giant brita filter for books where [TS]

00:21:08   every time he says he recommends a book [TS]

00:21:11   it goes on my list to read [TS]

00:21:13   he's filled with activated charcoal [TS]

00:21:14   exactly activated charcoal to wash out [TS]

00:21:18   all of your terrible books looks really [TS]

00:21:19   cool in the fridge they're nice they're [TS]

00:21:23   getting you know it he's a multi-tasker [TS]

00:21:25   read a lot of wonderful things if you [TS]

00:21:27   can remember its title let alone what [TS]

00:21:29   it's about [TS]

00:21:30   that is a good sign i think exactly true [TS]

00:21:34   yeah and that's what you know I i enjoy [TS]

00:21:35   participating in the incomparable [TS]

00:21:37   although I'm not as vocal as many of the [TS]

00:21:39   other panelists I like to consider my [TS]

00:21:42   thoughts on like you people don't talk [TS]

00:21:46   about because a i get to inflict books [TS]

00:21:50   upon other people and then it's [TS]

00:21:51   interesting all the books that i [TS]

00:21:53   recommend like jason said to for us to [TS]

00:21:55   discuss on the podcast are books that [TS]

00:21:57   I've enjoyed and I think merit [TS]

00:21:58   discussion and so it's interesting to me [TS]

00:22:00   when I have really liked the book and [TS]

00:22:03   then you know the rest of the panelists [TS]

00:22:05   read it and someone has [TS]

00:22:07   I enjoyed it as much as I it's [TS]

00:22:09   interesting to see their perspective and [TS]

00:22:11   how they explain how they can come to [TS]

00:22:13   the wrong opinion that's always [TS]

00:22:15   interesting and then the other side of [TS]

00:22:17   the court is getting a chance like red [TS]

00:22:20   set to read books that I normally [TS]

00:22:21   wouldn't read like ready player one I [TS]

00:22:25   probably wouldn't have picked up because [TS]

00:22:27   it just is not something that I would be [TS]

00:22:29   interested in and then i read it and it [TS]

00:22:31   wasn't very good so that kind of makes [TS]

00:22:32   me feel better about my own tastes [TS]

00:22:35   behind so those are the big thing of [TS]

00:22:37   their both selfish obviously because I [TS]

00:22:40   was selfish man but that is what that is [TS]

00:22:42   why I enjoy participating in the income [TS]

00:22:45   thank you Scott York who else would like [TS]

00:22:48   to say complimentary things about [TS]

00:22:50   participating think i have a thing to [TS]

00:22:54   say yes gland please my thing the floor [TS]

00:22:57   today is it is my thing is that i know [TS]

00:23:00   that i started reading science fiction [TS]

00:23:02   and fantasy to a lesser extent i started [TS]

00:23:05   like like the whole genre as a kid [TS]

00:23:08   there were times in my life when I was [TS]

00:23:09   less popular unpopular and their time in [TS]

00:23:12   my life when I was quite popular [TS]

00:23:14   surprisingly enough i know for this [TS]

00:23:16   programs using any of us might have been [TS]

00:23:18   popular [TS]

00:23:19   I find that hard to believe what time [TS]

00:23:20   what time are we and now he's saying [TS]

00:23:22   that you know people there was a point [TS]

00:23:24   in my life when I senior class president [TS]

00:23:26   is all I'm saying but that was the house [TS]

00:23:27   in my life I don't necessarily she was [TS]

00:23:29   your vice president was like Nixon or [TS]

00:23:30   something he had to resign mid-semester [TS]

00:23:33   was terrible controversy but metaphor [TS]

00:23:35   more apps than you could thought Dan so [TS]

00:23:37   glad you were sometimes popular can be [TS]

00:23:40   spoken our graduation it's hot gases [TS]

00:23:42   over that's what I have to have to do it [TS]

00:23:44   and I have to do so anyway because he's [TS]

00:23:47   a nice man at the world or a white suit [TS]

00:23:49   anyway the reason is I you know their [TS]

00:23:51   choice my life in which you will use [TS]

00:23:52   escapist fiction whether it's you know [TS]

00:23:55   more realistic or fantastical use it to [TS]

00:23:58   escape your life and there's times that [TS]

00:23:59   you're you read it because it enhances [TS]

00:24:01   your life and i have to say as I've [TS]

00:24:02   become a you know as I because I've [TS]

00:24:04   grown up [TS]

00:24:05   ostensibly growing up and gotten older [TS]

00:24:06   so has the medium for us when we were [TS]

00:24:09   all younger or even before we were long [TS]

00:24:12   before born there are times when science [TS]

00:24:14   fiction especially in fantasy maybe even [TS]

00:24:16   more so we're sort of pulp and all the [TS]

00:24:18   medium which they occurred [TS]

00:24:19   they weren't that sophisticated you can [TS]

00:24:21   find examples of it i mean the great [TS]

00:24:22   stories of old comic books or certain [TS]

00:24:24   series of certain writers that you know [TS]

00:24:27   develop deeper themes in their work but [TS]

00:24:29   you would have this gets into the genre [TS]

00:24:30   ghetto issue you know that's still being [TS]

00:24:33   fought but there is a point which you [TS]

00:24:34   could say that a lot of was being [TS]

00:24:35   produced maybe in the forties fifties [TS]

00:24:37   sixties couldn't easily be compared to [TS]

00:24:40   what was being produced in fiction at [TS]

00:24:42   the time or even nonfiction let's say it [TS]

00:24:44   wasn't as interesting as wasn't deep [TS]

00:24:46   then explore the recesses of the human [TS]

00:24:48   mind I don't think you can say that [TS]

00:24:49   about the last 30 years of output and so [TS]

00:24:51   when I want something like a doctor who [TS]

00:24:53   episode even even when it's unless it's [TS]

00:24:55   one of our very fluffy silly ones there [TS]

00:24:57   are issues that are being presented [TS]

00:24:59   their that you have to have the filter [TS]

00:25:02   of an alternative universe so you can [TS]

00:25:04   set the parameters so you can explore [TS]

00:25:06   intellectually a concept there is no way [TS]

00:25:09   to do with the framework of realistic [TS]

00:25:11   fiction and I think that to me is the [TS]

00:25:15   fundamental reason I'm interested in all [TS]

00:25:17   this serve a genre of things that are [TS]

00:25:20   impossible that you can read about draw [TS]

00:25:23   write about participating is that it [TS]

00:25:25   lets you explore intellectual ideas that [TS]

00:25:27   are simply not possible in in other [TS]

00:25:31   realms of expression and it's one reason [TS]

00:25:33   why I think things like abstract art [TS]

00:25:36   when the art world was overturned the [TS]

00:25:38   1800 you start have non realistic [TS]

00:25:39   depictions of art and then the nineteen [TS]

00:25:41   hundreds it's completely broken apart [TS]

00:25:43   with the darkest sand Wars you know [TS]

00:25:45   producing new kinds of art because of [TS]

00:25:47   people's response that the same thing [TS]

00:25:49   that that art made people angry because [TS]

00:25:52   it forced them to confront the problem [TS]

00:25:55   of life confront the kids they're being [TS]

00:25:57   fed and have to think about things that [TS]

00:25:59   were difficult and hard and one of the [TS]

00:26:01   greatest descriptions ever read and I [TS]

00:26:03   think this is it's not specifically [TS]

00:26:05   treated say the science fiction fantasy [TS]

00:26:06   but i think it's just like that is i'm [TS]

00:26:08   stephen roche the minimalist composer [TS]

00:26:11   when he premiered one of his [TS]

00:26:13   compositions for orgo some he's you know [TS]

00:26:15   he's the sub his work it's repetitive [TS]

00:26:18   it's this he says it's rude and [TS]

00:26:19   gregorian chant is very slight changes [TS]

00:26:21   in the pieces [TS]

00:26:22   Carson maddening and beautiful in their [TS]

00:26:24   way it was premiered I think it was the [TS]

00:26:26   nineteen seventies to season-ticket [TS]

00:26:27   holder goods and people were so angry [TS]

00:26:30   they went up in there pounding on the [TS]

00:26:31   stage people left in your like he made [TS]

00:26:34   them think in a different way so i love [TS]

00:26:38   this genre and I've grown to really [TS]

00:26:39   enjoy being able to talk about it with [TS]

00:26:41   you all and to have the feedback we get [TS]

00:26:43   through Twitter and email and hearing [TS]

00:26:45   the people read the same thing because i [TS]

00:26:47   think it's a great way to explore ideas [TS]

00:26:50   that make our brains bigger you always [TS]

00:26:54   you always talk about how an FM hack [TS]

00:26:57   your brain by introducing the concepts [TS]

00:27:01   that you had to actually internalized [TS]

00:27:04   before you can understand what you're [TS]

00:27:06   what you're reading and i would argue [TS]

00:27:08   that you know any good novel I or [TS]

00:27:12   actually any story you could argue to [TS]

00:27:15   actual brain a little bit that stories [TS]

00:27:17   are machines intended to perfect you [TS]

00:27:19   know create a a specific response [TS]

00:27:21   elicited a response in you and and and [TS]

00:27:24   but NM actually has a whole vocabulary [TS]

00:27:26   that goes with it and I read about that [TS]

00:27:28   with other people is I you know there's [TS]

00:27:30   times when i read a book and I think [TS]

00:27:31   this is so meaningful and you talk to [TS]

00:27:34   the people they find not as much and the [TS]

00:27:36   same effect [TS]

00:27:36   I remember going through and family i [TS]

00:27:38   was i was better blogging or tweeting at [TS]

00:27:40   the time that like it was like I made [TS]

00:27:42   base camp at page 350 I'm gonna try the [TS]

00:27:45   ascent to page four hundred tomorrow and [TS]

00:27:47   if I you know if I don't freeze 500 you [TS]

00:27:49   know where to find my body and after the [TS]

00:27:51   first time through that he was [TS]

00:27:53   presenting so much conceptual framework [TS]

00:27:55   the whole universe was off he was [TS]

00:27:57   inviting language do you other panelists [TS]

00:28:00   get that sense when you're reading [TS]

00:28:01   certain kinds of books that are that [TS]

00:28:02   Howard but worthwhile that your brain is [TS]

00:28:05   being weird that actually felt like I [TS]

00:28:07   had to learn and shift my perspective [TS]

00:28:09   just to get through the book and then [TS]

00:28:11   another time like I already have all [TS]

00:28:13   this my head all these names have been [TS]

00:28:14   constructed have to do all this heavy [TS]

00:28:16   work in the mean mines well I mean it [TS]

00:28:19   you know I think Steven doesn't way [TS]

00:28:21   that's very it's very deliberate in a [TS]

00:28:25   way that it's it's more transparent and [TS]

00:28:27   other books that don't have that sort of [TS]

00:28:28   steep learning curve [TS]

00:28:29   I think he draws a lot of attention to [TS]

00:28:31   it because he spends time replacing [TS]

00:28:33   things that you can actively identify [TS]

00:28:36   things that aren't entirely novel [TS]

00:28:38   concepts right like you might read a [TS]

00:28:40   science-fiction book and they might have [TS]

00:28:41   its own terminology or fantasy book that [TS]

00:28:43   has its own rules and terminology and [TS]

00:28:45   you sort of have two pieces together as [TS]

00:28:46   you go along ok there's a supernatural [TS]

00:28:48   creatures got this magic it works like [TS]

00:28:49   this and understand all that whereas he [TS]

00:28:52   was taking stuff that exist in our world [TS]

00:28:53   you know [TS]

00:28:54   telephones the digital cameras and stuff [TS]

00:28:56   like that and just put slapping your [TS]

00:28:58   name on it and i think that was [TS]

00:29:00   effective it for me anyways it worked it [TS]

00:29:02   was interesting as a piece of art I [TS]

00:29:04   agree that it was something that it felt [TS]

00:29:07   kind of like a slog until you hit the [TS]

00:29:09   crest at a point where you have [TS]

00:29:10   internalized all that vocabulary but [TS]

00:29:14   yeah i don't know i mean those are [TS]

00:29:15   against this sort of goes back to the [TS]

00:29:17   idea i was talking about before which is [TS]

00:29:18   that you know this this is stuff that [TS]

00:29:20   has clearly taken a lot of work and a [TS]

00:29:24   lot of deliberate thought to construct [TS]

00:29:26   and that that makes it interesting to [TS]

00:29:29   discuss general for me I I cuz i read i [TS]

00:29:32   read non sci-fi and stuff and seen on [TS]

00:29:35   sci-fi movies and TV shows i I'm not a [TS]

00:29:38   specific one genre kind of person and I [TS]

00:29:40   I there are some books it's actually [TS]

00:29:42   very strange when one of the authors [TS]

00:29:44   that I like who doesn't right [TS]

00:29:46   genre stuff suddenly does like when when [TS]

00:29:49   nick hornby wrote a slam which has a [TS]

00:29:54   sci-fi element of it that was crazy but [TS]

00:29:57   but yet there's something about that [TS]

00:29:59   moment where you realize you anything is [TS]

00:30:01   possible that you don't have that the [TS]

00:30:04   that the story you're hearing doesn't [TS]

00:30:06   have to abide by the rules of the [TS]

00:30:07   universe and that goes back to stories [TS]

00:30:09   we hear is you know fairy tales and [TS]

00:30:11   things like that we here as kids that [TS]

00:30:12   are our fantastic nature and anything is [TS]

00:30:15   possible and I just always loved that [TS]

00:30:16   that sense that that you're really [TS]

00:30:18   allowing the imagination of the writer [TS]

00:30:22   to come to the fore and that anything is [TS]

00:30:24   possible I could be i love those moments [TS]

00:30:26   in the in the george RR martin books [TS]

00:30:29   where r early on in the in Game of [TS]

00:30:32   Thrones where you forget for a while [TS]

00:30:34   that there's magic in this world you [TS]

00:30:36   think you've sort of are just following [TS]

00:30:38   the rules and then they're suddenly it's [TS]

00:30:40   magic and it's shocking and really cool [TS]

00:30:42   that they're there's something different [TS]

00:30:43   or that you can tell a story about [TS]

00:30:45   modern issues in inhuman you know in [TS]

00:30:49   culture [TS]

00:30:49   or stroke broad stories about human [TS]

00:30:52   nature and set them on a spaceship or [TS]

00:30:54   something and you know you don't realize [TS]

00:30:56   what you're seeing until until you [TS]

00:30:59   finally do and you're like oh I see [TS]

00:31:00   what's going on here [TS]

00:31:01   I just I always have loved that shift in [TS]

00:31:03   perception that that sci-fi and fantasy [TS]

00:31:05   bring that you don't necessarily see ma [TS]

00:31:08   you know gritty mainstream reality based [TS]

00:31:11   story about a man who's got a bad job [TS]

00:31:13   and you know it's the escapism and I [TS]

00:31:16   guess does appeal to me whether I'm you [TS]

00:31:18   know whether I'm escaping my life or [TS]

00:31:20   just enjoying the day yeah said [TS]

00:31:22   blackberry no I think there's a there's [TS]

00:31:24   a nerd [TS]

00:31:25   there's entertainment value which [TS]

00:31:26   shouldn't be overlooked in the in the [TS]

00:31:27   sense of just something that's a good [TS]

00:31:29   story right you know it doesn't [TS]

00:31:31   necessarily have to be because it's you [TS]

00:31:33   know Escape mr. because it's requires [TS]

00:31:35   the sort of deep critical thinking there [TS]

00:31:37   are stories that just get you at a you [TS]

00:31:39   know a visceral level and are effective [TS]

00:31:41   in that they you know they wrap you up [TS]

00:31:44   there page-turners right and you know [TS]

00:31:45   sometimes those you can there's plenty [TS]

00:31:47   of those they get written that maybe [TS]

00:31:49   aren't very good but it's worth putting [TS]

00:31:52   you know it's worth pulling out the ones [TS]

00:31:54   that are and trying to figure out why [TS]

00:31:57   they succeed well these other ones you [TS]

00:32:00   know someone in the chatroom mentioned [TS]

00:32:01   Dan Brown before who is one of my most [TS]

00:32:02   loads writer once we do that is we all [TS]

00:32:05   agree once we do the damn brown episode [TS]

00:32:07   of being comfortable it's over [TS]

00:32:08   sharks shark has been John yeah pretty [TS]

00:32:10   much i can tell you why I hate dan [TS]

00:32:12   friend is diverging alcoholic [TS]

00:32:15   although he did write the word sentence [TS]

00:32:17   ever constructed in english language but [TS]

00:32:18   that said I think it's actually there is [TS]

00:32:21   worth I'm not Dan Brown quickly but [TS]

00:32:22   there is that thing is we get you know [TS]

00:32:23   there's is the generalization you get [TS]

00:32:25   you get irritated when you read stuff in [TS]

00:32:27   the genre that is bad and down is well [TS]

00:32:30   praise like feed because you think oh [TS]

00:32:33   this is what everybody thinks is what [TS]

00:32:35   every reads with costco has in the table [TS]

00:32:37   so when you say yeah I'm part of this [TS]

00:32:39   podcast and we talked about geeky things [TS]

00:32:41   and sci-fi fantasy books and comic books [TS]

00:32:42   and all this stuff and people are like [TS]

00:32:44   oh you know I picked up blah and it was [TS]

00:32:46   so blah i could never read a blog and [TS]

00:32:48   you're like that's that's what makes you [TS]

00:32:51   angry about it's not it's not just [TS]

00:32:52   aggressively bad which makes you angry [TS]

00:32:53   but it's also it spoils the the pot for [TS]

00:32:57   other for talking other people and [TS]

00:32:58   having them be interested as well [TS]

00:33:00   another thing that interests me about [TS]

00:33:02   feed is that there are people who liked [TS]

00:33:04   it which I know has a little facetious [TS]

00:33:05   but it's just you know yeah having read [TS]

00:33:08   it is an awful awful book empirically a [TS]

00:33:11   bad book but there are lots of people [TS]

00:33:13   who enjoy it and that is the the beauty [TS]

00:33:15   of you know I guess being a human right [TS]

00:33:18   everyone has different perceptions [TS]

00:33:19   everyone has different critical [TS]

00:33:21   requirements for what they're reading [TS]

00:33:23   and that makes it interesting to talk [TS]

00:33:26   about this stuff and get other people's [TS]

00:33:28   viewpoints and I was also going to say [TS]

00:33:30   that I think part of the joy of reading [TS]

00:33:32   good science fiction and good fantasy is [TS]

00:33:36   not the fact that anything that can [TS]

00:33:38   happen but things can happen that are [TS]

00:33:41   consistent with the rules of the story [TS]

00:33:44   you don't know necessarily what those [TS]

00:33:46   rules are when you're reading the story [TS]

00:33:48   or where you start the story but a good [TS]

00:33:51   constructed a sci-fi or fantasy story [TS]

00:33:54   will let the reader discover these rules [TS]

00:33:56   as things are happening and I think that [TS]

00:33:58   that is part of the reward of reading [TS]

00:34:01   finely crafted science fiction or [TS]

00:34:03   fantasy story or novel is that you get [TS]

00:34:05   you feel like you've accomplished [TS]

00:34:07   something because you figure out why [TS]

00:34:09   things happen and it's internally [TS]

00:34:11   consistent whereas if anything could [TS]

00:34:13   happen it's not very rewarding because [TS]

00:34:14   why does you know the the rabbit turn [TS]

00:34:18   into a dragon it doesn't matter because [TS]

00:34:20   anything can happen so who cares [TS]

00:34:21   well that's what you're taking about the [TS]

00:34:23   magician's is that I came to figuring [TS]

00:34:25   that was actually pretty good because it [TS]

00:34:27   was so well-reviewed people talked about [TS]

00:34:29   it a lot and I was really more [TS]

00:34:32   disappointed than I might have been [TS]

00:34:33   otherwise because it was so full of that [TS]

00:34:35   same thing like whenever needed a rule [TS]

00:34:37   it got pulled out you know it's oh well [TS]

00:34:40   this happens well great now we have this [TS]

00:34:41   and there's this strange [TS]

00:34:43   multi-dimensional being you know its [TS]

00:34:44   blood just it just felt very resultantly [TS]

00:34:47   and like the author couldn't even be [TS]

00:34:50   bothered to keep track of characters and [TS]

00:34:52   what they were doing and I just I don't [TS]

00:34:54   know what kind of offended when I hit [TS]

00:34:56   something like why do people like this [TS]

00:34:58   are they reading so it's not that you [TS]

00:35:00   shouldn't be for fun but if you're [TS]

00:35:01   reading so non critically you can't [TS]

00:35:03   recognize flaws that in other genres [TS]

00:35:06   would make a book unreadable then what's [TS]

00:35:08   going on I mean you could say that about [TS]

00:35:09   isaac asimov's rating at times that he [TS]

00:35:11   you know so much about plot and not [TS]

00:35:13   about [TS]

00:35:13   hey about dialogue got like some of this [TS]

00:35:16   stuff oh come on now is some of his work [TS]

00:35:18   is somewhat unreadable accept his plots [TS]

00:35:20   are so good and that changes are [TS]

00:35:22   different [TS]

00:35:22   don't criticize everything wrote [TS]

00:35:23   obviously I've read a large portion but [TS]

00:35:26   I'm but notice that notion that you know [TS]

00:35:28   the the space opera is so big we just [TS]

00:35:30   give up on the actual necessity of [TS]

00:35:32   writing well [TS]

00:35:33   I do love and author knows where he's [TS]

00:35:36   going in terms of you know the [TS]

00:35:39   world-building of science fiction is so [TS]

00:35:41   fantastic I in that almost every book [TS]

00:35:45   you pick up unless that's a series and [TS]

00:35:47   you're going through subsequent novels [TS]

00:35:48   you know it's an entirely new world you [TS]

00:35:51   may have some familiar characteristics [TS]

00:35:53   here and there but you have you know you [TS]

00:35:56   have this creation of the authors but i [TS]

00:35:58   love it when you can tell right off the [TS]

00:36:01   bat that the author knows exactly where [TS]

00:36:03   he's going [TS]

00:36:04   especially in series is when you track [TS]

00:36:06   back to the first book or reread things [TS]

00:36:09   and find details that don't show up name [TS]

00:36:12   maybe until the fourth or fifth book [TS]

00:36:13   that have been carefully hidden and [TS]

00:36:16   planted there was something I'm [TS]

00:36:19   amusingly there was something in harry [TS]

00:36:20   potter where i was reading a couple a [TS]

00:36:23   couple days ago from a blog where they [TS]

00:36:26   were comparing something from the fourth [TS]

00:36:28   or fifth book where Harry is having a [TS]

00:36:32   conversation with his aunt and uncle and [TS]

00:36:34   his aunt brings up the wizard prison as [TS]

00:36:37   cabanne and I Harry assumes that she [TS]

00:36:42   says that she's heard it from that boy [TS]

00:36:45   and Harry assumes that she's talking [TS]

00:36:47   about her father or his father and then [TS]

00:36:50   only I think in the last book in the [TS]

00:36:53   seventh book you find out that in fact [TS]

00:36:55   she was talking about over hearing it [TS]

00:36:58   from one other characters ever snape I [TS]

00:37:01   and you find that out through a [TS]

00:37:03   flashback but you don't necessarily [TS]

00:37:05   connect the two unless you read the book [TS]

00:37:07   it's like oh you actually had a specific [TS]

00:37:11   plan for saying that boy over you know a [TS]

00:37:14   specific name or something like like [TS]

00:37:17   it's it's a little detail in a wildly [TS]

00:37:20   popular you know what fantasy series but [TS]

00:37:22   it's that kind of idea of being able to [TS]

00:37:25   keep the balls in the air and being able [TS]

00:37:27   to paint a wild multifaceted picture of [TS]

00:37:31   you know the genre that you're working [TS]

00:37:33   in I think we all like to be rewarded as [TS]

00:37:37   readers or consumers of of media and [TS]

00:37:41   it's it's nice to feel like you know the [TS]

00:37:44   author or the Creator is putting as much [TS]

00:37:46   attention into it as we are [TS]

00:37:47   paying to it and so you don't have that [TS]

00:37:50   section i mean i-i think 22 Scott's [TS]

00:37:52   earlier point I think rules can be [TS]

00:37:55   narrow or broad depending on the the [TS]

00:37:57   world i thought you know is when you [TS]

00:37:58   start talking about that i thought about [TS]

00:37:59   Doctor Who and about how the the rules [TS]

00:38:02   there are are so tremendously broad [TS]

00:38:04   sometimes that a lot of stuff does get [TS]

00:38:06   by just because you know it's it's [TS]

00:38:08   equivalently magic [TS]

00:38:09   I mean but that's how that show operates [TS]

00:38:12   that's the parameters of that show but [TS]

00:38:14   we do all like to be rewarded in the [TS]

00:38:16   sense of thinking about you know we a we [TS]

00:38:19   give this much attention to something [TS]

00:38:21   like Star Wars and it's nice to see like [TS]

00:38:23   you know there are references that [TS]

00:38:25   foreshadow things or that's constructed [TS]

00:38:27   in such a way as to be internally [TS]

00:38:29   consistent and it bothers us when things [TS]

00:38:32   are not consistent right so that you [TS]

00:38:34   know there are things that are mentioned [TS]

00:38:36   in the the the only three star wars [TS]

00:38:38   movies that exist that are then in some [TS]

00:38:41   ways contradicted by three other movies [TS]

00:38:44   that were never made and that's annoying [TS]

00:38:46   because you feel like wow but you [TS]

00:38:48   already set up these these possibilities [TS]

00:38:50   and you set up this thread and then you [TS]

00:38:52   not only didn't carry through on it you [TS]

00:38:54   just sort of took a sharp left turn with [TS]

00:38:56   it and i think that there's there's a [TS]

00:38:59   lot of reason for why we like things [TS]

00:39:00   like I you know to pull out a couple of [TS]

00:39:02   my favorite examples examples neil [TS]

00:39:04   gaiman's sandman is a great example of a [TS]

00:39:07   large work that has numerous references [TS]

00:39:10   that work both forward and backwards in [TS]

00:39:13   terms of referencing things that haven't [TS]

00:39:14   happened yet or referencing things that [TS]

00:39:16   you've already been in much prior much [TS]

00:39:18   previous volumes and lois mcmaster [TS]

00:39:21   bujold foreclosing saga which we didn't [TS]

00:39:23   episode on where there are you know tips [TS]

00:39:26   of the hat to things that happened you [TS]

00:39:27   know ten books earlier or there are [TS]

00:39:30   references to things that will be [TS]

00:39:31   important in 10 books and so it's nice [TS]

00:39:34   to feel like there is this world that's [TS]

00:39:36   constructed that exists even when we're [TS]

00:39:38   not actively paying attention to it that [TS]

00:39:41   we can visit when we like and I think [TS]

00:39:42   that's probably some of the attraction [TS]

00:39:44   and other media as well like things like [TS]

00:39:45   multiplayer online games you know people [TS]

00:39:48   like this idea of being able to visit [TS]

00:39:49   another world and it helps if it's [TS]

00:39:52   constructed in such a way as to feel [TS]

00:39:54   well fleshed out and consistent it's [TS]

00:39:58   funny damn that you mentioned the [TS]

00:39:59   prequels because i was going to use the [TS]

00:40:01   the what calls well okay so we devoted [TS]

00:40:04   six episodes to talking about in great [TS]

00:40:06   detail all three star wars movies and I [TS]

00:40:10   i do think it tell it says something [TS]

00:40:12   about us that we devoted all that time [TS]

00:40:14   hours and hours and hours like nine [TS]

00:40:17   hours of running time to movies that [TS]

00:40:19   didn't run that long [TS]

00:40:20   quite honestly and yet we we haven't we [TS]

00:40:23   talked about it we joke about we haven't [TS]

00:40:25   done an episode about you know the [TS]

00:40:27   Phantom Menace right we be because what [TS]

00:40:30   would we say I mean it might be fun to [TS]

00:40:32   take its body and kick it around right i [TS]

00:40:35   mean i don't think there are good things [TS]

00:40:36   for us to say about it but they would be [TS]

00:40:38   so outweighed by us [TS]

00:40:39   it's too fraught with problems and to it [TS]

00:40:43   would be too much of a trashing that it [TS]

00:40:45   wouldn't be worth it and it also feels [TS]

00:40:46   like beating up you know beating up the [TS]

00:40:48   kid to take his lunch money because it's [TS]

00:40:50   like I mean it's not a challenge right [TS]

00:40:52   there are lots of criticisms you can [TS]

00:40:53   make all right i mean what would the [TS]

00:40:55   point be of us you know beating [TS]

00:40:57   something to death that we just I mean [TS]

00:40:59   I'm not sure that would be a pleasurable [TS]

00:41:00   episode to listen to ultimately if we're [TS]

00:41:03   done eating with anything that is not [TS]

00:41:04   what we do and more the point you know [TS]

00:41:06   there is a certain delight in giving [TS]

00:41:08   something a bad review but when these [TS]

00:41:10   things have existed for so long and are [TS]

00:41:13   so a vengeance i wanted yeah if not [TS]

00:41:15   unanimously then so generally disliked [TS]

00:41:18   then there's really very little new to [TS]

00:41:20   say about that other than I just like it [TS]

00:41:23   the only real way we could ever do an [TS]

00:41:25   actual podcast on the prequels with [TS]

00:41:27   beaded basically look at the very few [TS]

00:41:30   things that the prequels got right and [TS]

00:41:31   also to improve upon like basically what [TS]

00:41:35   would make the prequels a good movie or [TS]

00:41:37   something you know we but you can't just [TS]

00:41:39   do I know it's really hard to think [TS]

00:41:41   about but the the point that I'm trying [TS]

00:41:44   to make is that you can't just do an [TS]

00:41:46   entirely negative episode that's just [TS]

00:41:48   going to throw heaping you know keeping [TS]

00:41:50   insults after keeping insults on to this [TS]

00:41:53   poor set of movies because i mean it's [TS]

00:41:55   it's like teasing you know the picked on [TS]

00:41:59   kid in the class [TS]

00:42:00   he's got enough already there's no point [TS]

00:42:02   but it seems like there's a point only [TS]

00:42:04   when you're trying to warn people off [TS]

00:42:06   something so when people asked your [TS]

00:42:07   opinion she heard about this book called [TS]

00:42:09   Fedor the magicians are ready player one [TS]

00:42:12   or [TS]

00:42:13   any of the other ones like that and we [TS]

00:42:14   did you say all yeah well you know I [TS]

00:42:16   read it didn't like it we did a podcast [TS]

00:42:17   on it if you want to know more about it [TS]

00:42:19   there's some spoilers but you're [TS]

00:42:21   thinking about getting it you're trying [TS]

00:42:22   to keep people from wasting their time [TS]

00:42:25   the time is the questions commodity and [TS]

00:42:28   but you know if everyone knows about it [TS]

00:42:30   already if everyone already hates the [TS]

00:42:32   putative prequels or what you know the [TS]

00:42:35   books are in question or the comic books [TS]

00:42:37   whatever it is then what's the right way [TS]

00:42:39   yeah piling on I would prefer to do [TS]

00:42:42   episodes recommending things that I [TS]

00:42:45   loved rather than hating on things that [TS]

00:42:48   I didn't unless it's unless it's [TS]

00:42:50   something horrible like 50 shades of [TS]

00:42:52   grey or something or it's like it's a [TS]

00:42:54   wildly Lauda duh book that everybody [TS]

00:42:57   should read no no one should read this [TS]

00:42:59   book like I can understand being the you [TS]

00:43:01   know the bearer of bad news in that [TS]

00:43:03   situation but otherwise if we're talking [TS]

00:43:04   about more obscure literature and [TS]

00:43:06   television and movies I'd rather just [TS]

00:43:08   focus on the things that are fantastic [TS]

00:43:10   and not spend waste so much energy [TS]

00:43:12   trashing the things that aren't yet [TS]

00:43:14   we're never going to stop people from [TS]

00:43:16   buying fifty shades of grey or george RR [TS]

00:43:19   martin or whatever we've tried to if we [TS]

00:43:21   were trying to prevent people from [TS]

00:43:21   buying that we're never gonna do that [TS]

00:43:23   we're too tiny for that but we can tell [TS]

00:43:25   people about things that are good and [TS]

00:43:26   help [TS]

00:43:27   I mean this is the whole point i'm used [TS]

00:43:28   to be when independent bookstores were [TS]

00:43:29   thriving and perhaps they will not be [TS]

00:43:32   totally going in the future in some [TS]

00:43:34   crazy way that there's this thing that's [TS]

00:43:37   still around called hand selling where [TS]

00:43:38   there'd be thousands and thousands of [TS]

00:43:40   independent book stores across the [TS]

00:43:41   country and authors with tour and be [TS]

00:43:43   making contacts with you know all the [TS]

00:43:46   people at the stores and trying to [TS]

00:43:48   convince them of the work their book and [TS]

00:43:51   sometimes books were discovered this way [TS]

00:43:52   by individual clerks or managers and [TS]

00:43:55   stores and thousands of places selling [TS]

00:43:57   it and I feel like at some level that's [TS]

00:43:59   a rule we're trying to fill as we don't [TS]

00:44:00   have an enormous listenership but we're [TS]

00:44:02   trying to help especially the more [TS]

00:44:04   obscure stuff find an audience and maybe [TS]

00:44:07   engaged some of the word of mouth [TS]

00:44:08   weekend about and make some you know [TS]

00:44:10   great stuff a slightly bigger and [TS]

00:44:12   therefore produce more great stuff I [TS]

00:44:13   think those are the two best things that [TS]

00:44:14   we can do on a podcast like this is is [TS]

00:44:17   highlight things that you may not have [TS]

00:44:18   heard of that we think are really great [TS]

00:44:20   and talk about things that that are [TS]

00:44:23   generally held to be really great in [TS]

00:44:26   sort of loving detail and being able to [TS]

00:44:29   take them apart and explain why we like [TS]

00:44:30   them and the quirks we find about the [TS]

00:44:32   main those are my two favorite sort of [TS]

00:44:34   things that we do here are those two [TS]

00:44:36   John siracusa you have many many points [TS]

00:44:39   to make about this discussion life I [TS]

00:44:40   suspect [TS]

00:44:41   yes this go back to many things that [TS]

00:44:43   have been mentioned by other people i [TS]

00:44:44   think i'll start with a damn was talking [TS]

00:44:46   about in the beginning so when we [TS]

00:44:50   actually get back to the indian taco [TS]

00:44:51   thing we enjoy something or when we [TS]

00:44:53   don't enjoy it like you see a movie you [TS]

00:44:55   read a book and you would like to you [TS]

00:44:56   don't everybody has that feeling you can [TS]

00:44:58   ask anybody on the street do you know [TS]

00:44:59   you saw the movie did you like it yes [TS]

00:45:01   now so easy to give your opinion right [TS]

00:45:02   eye and the the question the follow-up [TS]

00:45:05   question that almost no one asks is why [TS]

00:45:08   I and why you didn't like it is usually [TS]

00:45:11   you know they'll let me tell you I [TS]

00:45:12   didn't like this was stupid i like that [TS]

00:45:14   or whatever but like you know but just [TS]

00:45:16   kind of generality same thing with joy [TS]

00:45:18   was exciting was fun i laughed you know [TS]

00:45:20   I cried whatever eat it sort of vague [TS]

00:45:23   generalities of why you liked or didn't [TS]

00:45:25   like something but figuring out why you [TS]

00:45:27   do or don't like something is something [TS]

00:45:31   is that quality like the desire to say [TS]

00:45:33   to examine and say why did I like that [TS]

00:45:35   why did it like that is not it [TS]

00:45:38   a common trait i find maybe it's Deacon [TS]

00:45:41   on geek maybe just a circle traveling [TS]

00:45:43   now part of it is like learning about [TS]

00:45:44   the craft if you're interested in movies [TS]

00:45:47   or filmmaking or writing you want to [TS]

00:45:48   learn about you know that the art of [TS]

00:45:51   doing in the craft and how did they make [TS]

00:45:53   that movie and why is this good and [TS]

00:45:54   that's bad and you know and and learning [TS]

00:45:56   how and and what Dan said before [TS]

00:45:58   learning how things tick if you're a [TS]

00:45:59   geek you're an engineer or somebody [TS]

00:46:00   likes to take things apart you want to [TS]

00:46:01   know how they work on the inside and [TS]

00:46:04   I'll get back to that in a second but [TS]

00:46:05   the other part of this is that asking [TS]

00:46:08   yourself especially if for things that [TS]

00:46:10   you enjoy is why did you like it or [TS]

00:46:13   didn't like it [TS]

00:46:14   part of it is also kind of like [TS]

00:46:16   self-discovery because you have to [TS]

00:46:19   examine yourself and say why did I like [TS]

00:46:22   that and not yet and not all people like [TS]

00:46:25   that the journey of self-discovery is [TS]

00:46:27   not appealing to a lot of people it's [TS]

00:46:29   kind of like it you know the the [TS]

00:46:30   unexamined life that the unexamined life [TS]

00:46:32   this is repellent to a certain kind of [TS]

00:46:33   person but to other people the examined [TS]

00:46:36   life is it you know scary or [TS]

00:46:39   inappropriate [TS]

00:46:40   you're not interesting because you have [TS]

00:46:41   to think like I just go to see some [TS]

00:46:43   movie and it's like you know I i go to [TS]

00:46:45   see like an Adam Sandler movie and I [TS]

00:46:47   really really like it [TS]

00:46:48   few people who really really love and [TS]

00:46:49   adam sandler we are going back and [TS]

00:46:51   taking realty passaic why did I like [TS]

00:46:53   that because sometimes you do you know [TS]

00:46:55   you may not like the answer since the [TS]

00:46:56   troop star wars star trek any movie that [TS]

00:46:58   you think it most people don't think [TS]

00:47:00   about what they like I liked it made me [TS]

00:47:01   happy i smile and that sets [TS]

00:47:04   self-examination that urge to like [TS]

00:47:06   self-analyze is not common and is [TS]

00:47:09   uncomfortable to a lot of people that's [TS]

00:47:11   one of the things i wrote about the blog [TS]

00:47:12   post is like the guy who comes back from [TS]

00:47:13   moving says they don't like it they just [TS]

00:47:15   go out stupid and it's like is that was [TS]

00:47:18   that how you left it in your brain like [TS]

00:47:19   do you do you really know why you didn't [TS]

00:47:21   like it or do you not know why you [TS]

00:47:22   didn't like I think most people don't [TS]

00:47:23   know either like stuff don't know why [TS]

00:47:25   they don't like stuff and I'm one of [TS]

00:47:26   those people to whom that idea of not [TS]

00:47:29   knowing why you like something why [TS]

00:47:31   didn't like something independent of [TS]

00:47:32   like the aircraft of it is is a is [TS]

00:47:35   strange me and so John um I this happens [TS]

00:47:39   to me and I want to see if this happens [TS]

00:47:40   to you when the movies over and you're [TS]

00:47:42   walking outside the theater and you've [TS]

00:47:44   gone to the movie with somebody whether [TS]

00:47:45   it's your family or friends or something [TS]

00:47:46   I turn to you and say so what do you [TS]

00:47:48   think of it do you answer them [TS]

00:47:51   I and by that point already written a [TS]

00:47:52   review on my head haha well because I I [TS]

00:47:55   like I I don't even want to say i don't [TS]

00:47:57   want to say yet because I'm still [TS]

00:47:58   thinking about the night oh yeah it's [TS]

00:48:00   alright it involves yeah I have that [TS]

00:48:02   problem is i go to there's at least one [TS]

00:48:03   of my friends who I go to movies with [TS]

00:48:05   and I've been to the gyno I've known for [TS]

00:48:07   20 years right we've got countless [TS]

00:48:09   movies together i think i remember him [TS]

00:48:11   liking like three movies every always [TS]

00:48:13   comes out of it with a you'd like [TS]

00:48:14   Johnny's got that immediately form like [TS]

00:48:16   what are the things i don't get why this [TS]

00:48:17   happened I don't get what they said was [TS]

00:48:19   this point was the point of that you [TS]

00:48:20   know and and me I'm still like reveling [TS]

00:48:22   in the I just you know it was fun i just [TS]

00:48:24   watched a movie 42 a firts I've really [TS]

00:48:26   had a chance to think about it yet but [TS]

00:48:27   the problem with that to a certain [TS]

00:48:28   extent is it's good and it shows a [TS]

00:48:30   critical mind but it's also really it [TS]

00:48:32   kinda takes the wind out of you if [TS]

00:48:33   you're like well that seems fun [TS]

00:48:35   I guess I kinda liked it but I'm really [TS]

00:48:36   chance think about it and then all of a [TS]

00:48:38   sudden I'm garage with this entire like [TS]

00:48:40   wrote of criticism where it's like well [TS]

00:48:42   now i feel dumb if I'm not thinking [TS]

00:48:44   about anything or even figure out why [TS]

00:48:46   you liked it but i see i would argue [TS]

00:48:48   that I actually try to cultivate a [TS]

00:48:51   detachment from a critical thinking one [TS]

00:48:54   engaged in a work of art because that [TS]

00:48:56   you know you can i'm not going there is [TS]

00:48:58   a critic i'm going to review the movie [TS]

00:48:59   i'm going there for entertainment I know [TS]

00:49:00   that John critical response the things [TS]

00:49:03   is your entertainment but for me I like [TS]

00:49:05   to be it's true but it's I like to you [TS]

00:49:07   know what I saw brave recently sending [TS]

00:49:09   some discussion on the uncomfortable [TS]

00:49:11   lifts with anne frank's about this is i [TS]

00:49:13   quite like break because it engage me in [TS]

00:49:15   a certain level it turned off some my [TS]

00:49:17   critical thought and I just washed [TS]

00:49:19   through the hundred minutes of it came [TS]

00:49:20   out the other when I had a really good [TS]

00:49:22   time and now of course i'm picking apart [TS]

00:49:23   parts and things that are weak and [TS]

00:49:25   whatever but later and I don't lose that [TS]

00:49:27   sense of at the time I was watching it [TS]

00:49:29   the memory of enjoying it at that time [TS]

00:49:32   and if I'm engaged in critical function [TS]

00:49:33   for something like that where it's [TS]

00:49:36   impossible become engaged are some [TS]

00:49:37   things that is so bad that you're going [TS]

00:49:40   to be broken out of the moment and do it [TS]

00:49:43   but i think the point of a work of art [TS]

00:49:45   of any kind of work of art is that [TS]

00:49:47   engages you to a point in which the you [TS]

00:49:50   are allowed to forgive yourself [TS]

00:49:53   critical thinking because of the [TS]

00:49:54   engagement of the medium I don't know if [TS]

00:49:56   I'm capable of that [TS]

00:49:57   well i'm not saying like during the [TS]

00:49:59   thing you should be engaged in that [TS]

00:50:00   although that can happen for various [TS]

00:50:02   reasons but it's it's kind of different [TS]

00:50:03   things like that so it's good and it's [TS]

00:50:05   we have seen your wedding because [TS]

00:50:06   emotions emotions involved in it you [TS]

00:50:08   gotta be swept away like things [TS]

00:50:09   sometimes to the people who are on the [TS]

00:50:11   show and the people who enjoy the show [TS]

00:50:13   I would imagine fall under the category [TS]

00:50:15   of people for whom the enjoyment of art [TS]

00:50:19   is enhanced by later discussion of it is [TS]

00:50:22   always there are many many people who [TS]

00:50:24   like it or dislike it [TS]

00:50:26   do not want to examine why it was good [TS]

00:50:28   why was bad why they like that why they [TS]

00:50:30   didn't like it because by examining it [TS]

00:50:32   there listening in the experience but we [TS]

00:50:33   I think are not like that i think we [TS]

00:50:35   want to if we like it or didn't like it [TS]

00:50:37   was talking about but either side of [TS]

00:50:39   those things enhances the experience [TS]

00:50:41   like i enjoy movies more the more I [TS]

00:50:43   discussing we've talked to death about [TS]

00:50:44   Star Wars and art all those discussions [TS]

00:50:47   enhance my enjoyment of Star Wars do not [TS]

00:50:49   decrease it do not less than it and some [TS]

00:50:51   people think like oh if you're picking [TS]

00:50:52   it apart you're analyzing it again [TS]

00:50:54   good or bad analyzing why you like it [TS]

00:50:56   analyzing what you don't like it you're [TS]

00:50:57   somehow lessening the experience and now [TS]

00:51:00   now that you understand it is less [TS]

00:51:02   interesting or mystical you've ruined it [TS]

00:51:04   strong management you're stronger than [TS]

00:51:05   me because I'm making a difference [TS]

00:51:06   between the be during the moment of the [TS]

00:51:09   appreciation not the the section later [TS]

00:51:11   or doing critical thinking later i'm [TS]

00:51:13   saying that a good work can bring you in [TS]

00:51:15   especially when the universe was created [TS]

00:51:17   I know but if that's what you think [TS]

00:51:18   about later [TS]

00:51:19   howard got you i agree with both of you [TS]

00:51:21   I think there's just I think that's just [TS]

00:51:22   for me as a DB thought I was trying to [TS]

00:51:25   express was that being bras with [TS]

00:51:27   opinions before I've had a chance to [TS]

00:51:28   form my own can be off-putting because [TS]

00:51:31   then those thoughts are permanently in [TS]

00:51:33   my head and it's hard to form my own [TS]

00:51:35   opinion [TS]

00:51:36   well now you may have been great segue [TS]

00:51:37   to my second metal point yes yes i do [TS]

00:51:40   the John services which is all of us [TS]

00:51:42   here are on a podcast and we're talking [TS]

00:51:44   about that you know things we like or [TS]

00:51:46   don't like [TS]

00:51:47   and part of it you have to say is hubris [TS]

00:51:49   like where we're a bunch of people who [TS]

00:51:51   happen to be in our various professions [TS]

00:51:53   like or side professions whatever [TS]

00:51:54   writers other creative people who think [TS]

00:51:57   that what we have to say about something [TS]

00:51:59   is worth hearing like you know you're [TS]

00:52:01   bright words and they go on a website [TS]

00:52:03   for thousands of people to look at and [TS]

00:52:04   we do a podcast and people no matter [TS]

00:52:06   what gives [TS]

00:52:07   who cares what we think we just you know [TS]

00:52:09   it you have to have that little spark of [TS]

00:52:11   yeah what I have to say about this is [TS]

00:52:13   important and meaningful woman what then [TS]

00:52:14   was saying when you get a bunch of other [TS]

00:52:16   opinions and they you know they kind of [TS]

00:52:18   like color the way you view things if [TS]

00:52:20   their pains from people you don't care [TS]

00:52:21   about they don't bother you and the more [TS]

00:52:24   sort of confidence and faith you have in [TS]

00:52:26   your own opinion as compared to the [TS]

00:52:28   person giving them or whatever like the [TS]

00:52:29   sunbed reviewing usat do you like you [TS]

00:52:31   dismiss that whatever if someone who [TS]

00:52:33   really like a friend of yours whose [TS]

00:52:34   opinion you really expect gives gives [TS]

00:52:36   you a bad opinion that is more difficult [TS]

00:52:38   to to repel against but all of us I [TS]

00:52:39   think have something in us that makes us [TS]

00:52:42   think the things we have to say these [TS]

00:52:44   insights we have about things we like [TS]

00:52:46   again good or bad are worth sharing with [TS]

00:52:48   other people because they're like a yeah [TS]

00:52:49   you know maybe other people thought of [TS]

00:52:51   that but I thought of it and i think [TS]

00:52:52   that's worth sharing and here we all are [TS]

00:52:54   doing that I think it's a big part of [TS]

00:52:56   the show is that it's some small part of [TS]

00:52:57   every single one of us thinks what do we [TS]

00:53:00   have to say about this stuff is is worth [TS]

00:53:02   doing and the final aspect that about [TS]

00:53:04   learning how things tick is that this [TS]

00:53:06   probably also a small part of our [TS]

00:53:08   sometimes a really big part of us are [TS]

00:53:09   actual real-life part of us thinks I [TS]

00:53:11   want to learn how this works and why I [TS]

00:53:13   enjoyed it and why I didn't and what I [TS]

00:53:15   have to say about is important because [TS]

00:53:16   someday I might [TS]

00:53:17   do that maybe i'm going to write a book [TS]

00:53:18   maybe I'll write five books maybe I'll [TS]

00:53:20   write a whole book in a month maybe I'll [TS]

00:53:21   be a movie maker make you know what i [TS]

00:53:23   mean and figuring out how you know are [TS]

00:53:26   in general or specific media markets [TS]

00:53:28   part of that I don't think it's a [TS]

00:53:31   coincidence they're all a bunch of like [TS]

00:53:32   writers here or half writers or whatever [TS]

00:53:35   talking about movies i've always been [TS]

00:53:36   fascinated with I don't know if I ever [TS]

00:53:38   have intended well or at least since I [TS]

00:53:40   was a kid of intent of like being a [TS]

00:53:41   screenwriter and all that but I've [TS]

00:53:42   always been fascinated with how how it [TS]

00:53:44   works [TS]

00:53:45   yeah so I agree with that completely i [TS]

00:53:46   I've always been interested in how it [TS]

00:53:49   works and why it works and how it makes [TS]

00:53:52   me feel and yes it's not that we're all [TS]

00:53:54   people who who write things that lots of [TS]

00:53:56   other people read and obviously that [TS]

00:54:00   there's something in there to that we're [TS]

00:54:02   sort of used to doing that although [TS]

00:54:04   quite honestly you know I love having a [TS]

00:54:06   creating a thing that goes out there [TS]

00:54:07   that people like and that it has [TS]

00:54:09   interesting perspectives from people who [TS]

00:54:10   aren't me on it which is all of you [TS]

00:54:12   there's a deep bench issue to which is [TS]

00:54:14   like that last episode episode 99 [TS]

00:54:16   uncomfortable in which we did the the [TS]

00:54:19   sci-fi novel draft essentially like what [TS]

00:54:21   should we do we how many books was a 40 [TS]

00:54:23   you said Jason and at least at least and [TS]

00:54:26   you know in many of us have read i went [TS]

00:54:28   through i think i may have read not as [TS]

00:54:30   many as anybody else whatever dozens of [TS]

00:54:31   those and you know it's it's partly [TS]

00:54:33   there is hubris of course I like doing [TS]

00:54:36   this and to be honest if we're just us [TS]

00:54:38   and we had no listeners i would probably [TS]

00:54:40   still enjoy this it might be a little [TS]

00:54:41   strange for us to do it in that [TS]

00:54:43   circumstance but I wouldn't have to edit [TS]

00:54:45   the podcast then if there was a letter [TS]

00:54:47   through you would still edit chases and [TS]

00:54:49   we do when we're in you know in [TS]

00:54:51   geographically proximate areas i feel [TS]

00:54:53   that was really good why whatever i've [TS]

00:54:54   met almost all of you wait all of you [TS]

00:54:57   have met all of you not that but the the [TS]

00:54:59   point though is that it's um is that [TS]

00:55:00   there is an expertise we bring this [TS]

00:55:02   there's a humorous of you know we do [TS]

00:55:04   like to talk and have people listen to [TS]

00:55:06   us because we've been conditioned to [TS]

00:55:08   that by having hundreds of thousands or [TS]

00:55:10   millions of people read our stuff over [TS]

00:55:12   you know over years so you get a little [TS]

00:55:14   bit of a hey Matt we have something that [TS]

00:55:15   whatever but the other arm the other [TS]

00:55:17   part of that is that i would say most [TS]

00:55:21   ocean say most people listen to the [TS]

00:55:23   Sharks we don't know that but i would [TS]

00:55:24   say a lot of people don't have the time [TS]

00:55:26   to read all this if they've read [TS]

00:55:28   everything we've read on [TS]

00:55:29   sure let this is the podcast except to [TS]

00:55:32   give feedback or to contrast the [TS]

00:55:33   experience against ours which is [TS]

00:55:35   interesting i listen to podcast so much [TS]

00:55:37   you know discussions of things that [TS]

00:55:39   people have rather seen that i also have [TS]

00:55:41   but i think it's an issue of something [TS]

00:55:43   like you know allegory or illusion [TS]

00:55:45   likewise illusion interesting i remember [TS]

00:55:47   watching lord of the rings the first [TS]

00:55:50   movie when it came out and watching a [TS]

00:55:52   fellowship of the rings and thinking God [TS]

00:55:53   how they got it so much right and how [TS]

00:55:55   they're even details from other books [TS]

00:55:57   from the silmarillion other things you [TS]

00:55:58   can read all the paraphernalia an [TS]

00:56:00   apocryphal but everything that Tolkien [TS]

00:56:02   written in the forgotten and whatever [TS]

00:56:04   you know so I read everything and just [TS]

00:56:05   little slices here and there and I [TS]

00:56:07   thought oh this feels Richard to me than [TS]

00:56:10   someone who didn't have that because [TS]

00:56:11   they put all this into me to build the [TS]

00:56:13   characterization build the world up it [TS]

00:56:15   doesn't mean someone who didn't get all [TS]

00:56:16   the illusion doesn't get the full just [TS]

00:56:19   of it but there is something that they [TS]

00:56:20   did for me and I feel like that's part [TS]

00:56:22   of why we do the show is that we have a [TS]

00:56:25   deep bench and we're trying to talk to [TS]

00:56:28   people who maybe haven't read you know [TS]

00:56:30   the thousand science-fiction novels or [TS]

00:56:32   haven't had the time to read a [TS]

00:56:33   particular water see a particular series [TS]

00:56:35   were sort of both the pilot fish and the [TS]

00:56:37   you know ancient mirror haha wow video [TS]

00:56:41   there's no subtitle it blew me away [TS]

00:56:43   there if you if you had ancient mariner [TS]

00:56:45   and dot on your bingo board place to go [TS]

00:56:47   and letting go [TS]

00:56:49   haha so so as we go deep into the night [TS]

00:56:53   here and it should probably finish at [TS]

00:56:55   some point I wanted to go around and ask [TS]

00:56:58   everybody if they've got a favorite and [TS]

00:56:59   or at least favorite memory of the [TS]

00:57:02   incomparable that since this is our last [TS]

00:57:04   episode no no it's our anniversary [TS]

00:57:06   episode already called well do you have [TS]

00:57:09   a favorite or at least favorite the team [TS]

00:57:11   when we all pitched our own fictional ah [TS]

00:57:14   shall proceed to make your pitches with [TS]

00:57:17   the TV show character draft [TS]

00:57:20   yes that that was a great episode and I [TS]

00:57:22   really enjoyed being part of it and it [TS]

00:57:24   it brought together what John was you [TS]

00:57:27   know turkeys was talking about a little [TS]

00:57:28   bit be they need to create with the need [TS]

00:57:32   to obsessively talk over and criticize [TS]

00:57:34   so yes [TS]

00:57:36   Skeletor forever slots [TS]

00:57:41   yeah thats i'm going with that great i'm [TS]

00:57:44   gonna be I'm gonna be can be a proxy [TS]

00:57:46   Steve what's its now thank you thank you [TS]

00:57:50   favorite moment or without a dad I just [TS]

00:57:53   submitted up three clips from past [TS]

00:57:55   episodes for an award for podcasting and [TS]

00:57:57   skeletor was one of the things i submit [TS]

00:57:59   that you probably won't make any sense [TS]

00:58:00   but i don't care if we win I hasn't we [TS]

00:58:03   don't know i'm gonna guess no no not yet [TS]

00:58:06   well we'll lose later I haven't lost yet [TS]

00:58:08   we're in a state of grace and lost their [TS]

00:58:11   nominee let's just let's enjoy the [TS]

00:58:14   nominee it's an honor just to be [TS]

00:58:15   nominated even though i think anybody [TS]

00:58:17   could be nominated we were nominated so [TS]

00:58:18   damn do you have a favorite or least [TS]

00:58:21   favorite I I both probably I'm go i [TS]

00:58:24   think my favorite moment would be it's [TS]

00:58:27   probably the the Empire podcast if only [TS]

00:58:30   because I don't there's a specific [TS]

00:58:31   moment just the fact that John John and [TS]

00:58:34   I got to you know talk over everybody [TS]

00:58:36   else for an hour now I'm I don't know [TS]

00:58:39   it's it's it's always fun to find [TS]

00:58:40   someone else who spend as much time [TS]

00:58:42   thinking about a particular subject is [TS]

00:58:44   you have so you can be like it goes a [TS]

00:58:47   little small thing right there the [TS]

00:58:48   castle totally notice that was it so i [TS]

00:58:50   don't know i enjoy that enjoy that [TS]

00:58:51   interchange and as Jon says I really [TS]

00:58:53   like you know discussing things like [TS]

00:58:57   that because i think it enhances you [TS]

00:58:59   know my enjoyment of the of the media [TS]

00:59:01   and so I think the umpire Boggess three [TS]

00:59:04   hours long as it was you know I was i I [TS]

00:59:07   got the end of that I was still but I [TS]

00:59:08   was ready to go another round [TS]

00:59:10   you know I was still put me in coach you [TS]

00:59:13   know as somebody who let me just over [TS]

00:59:16   these guys ready to talk over me again [TS]

00:59:19   hey it's like we're back there no I mean [TS]

00:59:22   as someone who was the foremost like [TS]

00:59:24   experts on Empire and star wars in her [TS]

00:59:28   community growing up it was humbling to [TS]

00:59:31   I to join you in Siracusa for several [TS]

00:59:35   hours to talk about the nitty-gritty [TS]

00:59:37   bits of empire we really love it [TS]

00:59:39   I want I know I know well it makes me [TS]

00:59:43   happy because it's like Oh new things [TS]

00:59:45   that I can discover that i have not [TS]

00:59:46   noticed yet i was scrolling through the [TS]

00:59:48   archives and found my least favorite [TS]

00:59:50   moment which is episode number 31 [TS]

00:59:52   entitled supernatural and I think [TS]

00:59:54   everyone [TS]

00:59:55   understand [TS]

00:59:55   understand [TS]

01:00:00   monday would give them talk about your [TS]

01:00:01   favorite she asks and any moment [TS]

01:00:02   involving scouting del t be my nemesis [TS]

01:00:04   especially the part where you didn't [TS]

01:00:06   call me as an emphasis on the show with [TS]

01:00:07   Jonathan golden where they talked about [TS]

01:00:08   the song nemesis my best move as a [TS]

01:00:11   deficit [TS]

01:00:12   yes that was my McNulty Scott do you [TS]

01:00:17   have a favorite or least favorite I how [TS]

01:00:19   could I have at least favorite moment [TS]

01:00:20   Jason really they're all have another [TS]

01:00:22   all precious you'd have to read feed I [TS]

01:00:24   didn't have to read feed those but that [TS]

01:00:25   was many moments strung together that uh [TS]

01:00:28   I did not joy I think my favorite think [TS]

01:00:31   those are the Doctor Who flash podcasts [TS]

01:00:35   uh just because it gives me someone to [TS]

01:00:37   be with on Christmas so stop no Jason [TS]

01:00:41   I've got a new favorite moment i also [TS]

01:00:45   enjoy the fact that we had we have a [TS]

01:00:47   Google document with a future episodes [TS]

01:00:49   and the doctor who christmas special is [TS]

01:00:52   there and the only panelist who is [TS]

01:00:54   listed as being on it for the next one [TS]

01:00:56   is me obviously have nothing else to do [TS]

01:01:00   on Christmas we look at Scott don't know [TS]

01:01:04   how that happened but yes the guy you're [TS]

01:01:05   coming christmas in my house this year [TS]

01:01:07   oh my mom's coming for Christmas but [TS]

01:01:09   it's but then we'll be at his house for [TS]

01:01:11   Christmas that's true that's true i'll [TS]

01:01:12   be away haha well playoff Scott is all [TS]

01:01:16   alone with how you are rather his [TS]

01:01:17   nemesis when do you have a favorite and [TS]

01:01:20   least favorite as usual have 17 no I i [TS]

01:01:23   would like to say I only German doubt [TS]

01:01:25   Colton moment quite a bit i've listed [TS]

01:01:27   that was the absolute listen to [TS]

01:01:29   interview with him i thought that was [TS]

01:01:30   really lovely at the end it was kind of [TS]

01:01:32   funk we haven't pulled in too many folks [TS]

01:01:34   like that the past i hosted episode 42 [TS]

01:01:37   so i'll be conceited and say I liked it [TS]

01:01:39   but it was partly because I got a [TS]

01:01:41   slightly different crew than the usual [TS]

01:01:42   is a lot of non regulars and everyone [TS]

01:01:45   had a different memory and instead of [TS]

01:01:48   take on douglas adams including our [TS]

01:01:50   special guest George Graham who had [TS]

01:01:52   worked with douglas adams of a software [TS]

01:01:54   company that did some of the interactive [TS]

01:01:56   games like a starship titanic and I just [TS]

01:02:00   I enjoyed the fact that we got all these [TS]

01:02:02   facets of douglas adams who is a totally [TS]

01:02:05   interesting guy we're able to explore [TS]

01:02:06   all of them [TS]

01:02:07   with people having different experiences [TS]

01:02:10   with different aspects of the work you [TS]

01:02:12   did that was that was fun [TS]

01:02:14   great and John do you have any any [TS]

01:02:17   favorites or your least favorites and I [TS]

01:02:19   was thinking I because I will I'll brag [TS]

01:02:21   about the fact that i have no least [TS]

01:02:23   favorites and I think the reason I have [TS]

01:02:24   no least favorite moments is that I [TS]

01:02:26   strategically choose which episodes are [TS]

01:02:28   gonna be I saw her for example it out a [TS]

01:02:31   lot of the book episodes i can tell [TS]

01:02:33   right away like I'm not gonna like that [TS]

01:02:35   book and it's like it you know so all [TS]

01:02:37   even the books all the book episodes [TS]

01:02:39   have been on i have fond memories of [TS]

01:02:40   like you know the name of the wind books [TS]

01:02:42   in that series like even though I said I [TS]

01:02:44   said critical things that my fine [TS]

01:02:46   memories of reading those their kind of [TS]

01:02:47   fun like it ready player one with short [TS]

01:02:49   you know script to read it wasn't you [TS]

01:02:52   know and basically i'm mostly picking [TS]

01:02:54   episodes but I feel like I have [TS]

01:02:55   something to say about it that's [TS]

01:02:56   exciting to me so i have no least [TS]

01:02:58   favorites of my favorites [TS]

01:03:00   I you know as usual dance no man sorry [TS]

01:03:02   to say the star wars ones i mostly [TS]

01:03:05   because before we did them you know [TS]

01:03:06   we're always like oh we're going to do [TS]

01:03:08   this nerd podcast but eventually we'll [TS]

01:03:09   talk about Star Wars just kinda like out [TS]

01:03:11   there and I was secretly afraid that [TS]

01:03:12   when it came daunting [TS]

01:03:14   yeah when we came to the star wars ones [TS]

01:03:16   like that there that we would you know [TS]

01:03:18   it would just be like that we wouldn't [TS]

01:03:21   have much say cause what can you say [TS]

01:03:22   about Star Wars these things we've been [TS]

01:03:23   living Our entire life's like yeah star [TS]

01:03:25   was cool right guys [TS]

01:03:26   yeah sorry but then like but just in the [TS]

01:03:29   New Hope episode like you know 10 [TS]

01:03:31   minutes same it became clear that we [TS]

01:03:33   have an infinite number of words to say [TS]

01:03:35   about Star Wars and that they weren't [TS]

01:03:36   the same things that I had heard unlike [TS]

01:03:38   you know because you all had discussions [TS]

01:03:39   about star with other people and other [TS]

01:03:41   things in her other podcasts and watch [TS]

01:03:42   movies and like I felt like we were [TS]

01:03:45   there was a a deep front of stuff that [TS]

01:03:48   we could talk about and that it was a [TS]

01:03:50   new and interesting things like you know [TS]

01:03:52   the other people say things that I [TS]

01:03:54   hadn't thought of and i would say things [TS]

01:03:55   that I thought that everyone was in all [TS]

01:03:57   their heads but they said they hadn't [TS]

01:03:59   thought of before and it was just like [TS]

01:04:00   that was exciting to me to see that even [TS]

01:04:02   a month in such a tired topic of star [TS]

01:04:04   wars that we all just had baked into our [TS]

01:04:06   lives among people who already know each [TS]

01:04:08   other and you would think already have [TS]

01:04:10   discussed all these things but no that [TS]

01:04:11   was just it was so much more there it [TS]

01:04:13   makes me think for every topic that we [TS]

01:04:14   ever done that in theory we could go you [TS]

01:04:17   know 78 hours just talking about any one [TS]

01:04:20   of these one thing [TS]

01:04:21   just do this and there's so much there [TS]

01:04:22   that such a deep well you know that was [TS]

01:04:25   a that we didn't know for the first one [TS]

01:04:27   that was gonna go because we ended up [TS]

01:04:28   going for two and a half hours and [TS]

01:04:30   there's a moment that a most people [TS]

01:04:33   didn't hear although i did tacking on [TS]

01:04:34   the beginning of the second episode [TS]

01:04:35   we're very quietly while we were talking [TS]

01:04:37   great moss kind of covered his [TS]

01:04:39   microphone up and whispered to his wife [TS]

01:04:41   I'm sorry this is gone on twice as long [TS]

01:04:44   as I expected already i just kept going [TS]

01:04:47   either against a great knife was like [TS]

01:04:48   quietly singing the Star Wars theme to [TS]

01:04:50   himself rocking back and forth [TS]

01:04:52   yeah but we did hear a lot about his [TS]

01:04:53   childhood in that episode we did and how [TS]

01:04:55   much Star Wars meant to him but that was [TS]

01:04:57   cool it was really cool and I think [TS]

01:04:59   among the our listeners the star wars [TS]

01:05:00   episodes are by far the most popular and [TS]

01:05:04   I you know I would throw into that the [TS]

01:05:06   via where's the Lost Ark episode i [TS]

01:05:09   really like i do enjoy those classic [TS]

01:05:11   movie episodes where I feel like I've [TS]

01:05:13   seen it and know everything about it and [TS]

01:05:15   then I hear somebody else's perspective [TS]

01:05:16   and it really changed my perspective on [TS]

01:05:18   the movie plus i get the the joy of [TS]

01:05:20   watching that movie that again with an [TS]

01:05:23   eye toward the podcast and taking notes [TS]

01:05:26   and noticing things even then that I [TS]

01:05:27   hadn't really noticed before just [TS]

01:05:29   because i'm being a little more paying a [TS]

01:05:32   little more attention and thinking about [TS]

01:05:33   it a little more critically my least [TS]

01:05:35   favorite you know I i wanted one here i [TS]

01:05:38   know i can say is I'm gonna get the real [TS]

01:05:40   genius episode because that's the [TS]

01:05:42   episode that that that I i can actually [TS]

01:05:45   go back and listen to you learn my ways [TS]

01:05:47   of John circulon but but i'm not you [TS]

01:05:49   know actually that my worst experience [TS]

01:05:50   was that there's an episode we did the [TS]

01:05:52   comic book club called the number ones [TS]

01:05:55   and it we had huge technical [TS]

01:05:58   difficulties and it was right when we [TS]

01:06:00   were on started on five by five and i [TS]

01:06:02   had an Benjamin on the on that episode [TS]

01:06:04   and so of course it's like hey guy who [TS]

01:06:08   runs the podcast network that my podcast [TS]

01:06:10   is now on let's have crippling audio [TS]

01:06:12   issues and multiple and I honestly don't [TS]

01:06:15   even know what we talked about in that [TS]

01:06:17   episode because i was spending all my [TS]

01:06:18   time pressing buttons so that there [TS]

01:06:19   weren't wasn't like horrible audio [TS]

01:06:21   feedback if we switch microphones and [TS]

01:06:23   that was really in really embarrassing [TS]

01:06:25   and then he had faith korpi was on [TS]

01:06:29   because she was in the studio then so [TS]

01:06:31   it's like you want her onto she reads [TS]

01:06:32   comic books I said sure [TS]

01:06:34   night wasn't prepared to ask her [TS]

01:06:35   questions and it was a yeah that was [TS]

01:06:38   really bad so from my perspective that [TS]

01:06:40   one was the one that killed me because [TS]

01:06:42   it was just it was so embarrassing and [TS]

01:06:44   that and the technical stuff so bad and [TS]

01:06:46   you know I guess as somebody who had its [TS]

01:06:48   most of these episodes [TS]

01:06:50   that's the stuff that always sticks with [TS]

01:06:51   me is those you know when something goes [TS]

01:06:54   horribly wrong [TS]

01:06:55   technically and we have to try and make [TS]

01:06:57   the best of it [TS]

01:06:58   so John syracuse of you know driving [TS]

01:07:01   over one of my favorite movies from the [TS]

01:07:03   eighties just it will put in second [TS]

01:07:05   place after the catastrophic failure of [TS]

01:07:07   microphones see I like real genius you [TS]

01:07:09   know we should revisit the real genius [TS]

01:07:11   revisited like i did i just don't like [TS]

01:07:12   how much as you did when I was [TS]

01:07:14   objectively was your love of the movie [TS]

01:07:16   that was out of proportion that I [TS]

01:07:17   thought it's not like I you know I'm [TS]

01:07:19   sitting here dwelling a real genius and [TS]

01:07:20   I hate it [TS]

01:07:21   Jason it's it's a trap you know it's [TS]

01:07:24   going to bed now we recorded episode of [TS]

01:07:26   my parents house because I was there for [TS]

01:07:28   spring break with my family and I every [TS]

01:07:29   time I walk into that room when I visit [TS]

01:07:31   my parents I think oh this is where it [TS]

01:07:33   happened [TS]

01:07:33   haha man it's fine [TS]

01:07:38   alright uh see I really want to get [TS]

01:07:41   Steve let's on here so that we can kill [TS]

01:07:43   him because we promised we'd kill [TS]

01:07:44   somebody [TS]

01:07:44   Steve lots o hey Jason how's it going [TS]

01:07:48   you know I want to congratulate you on [TS]

01:07:50   although you were not one of the top [TS]

01:07:52   five panelists selected to be in this [TS]

01:07:54   episode you were the creator of the [TS]

01:07:56   defining fantastic moment incomparable [TS]

01:07:59   history and the first hundred episodes [TS]

01:08:01   which was your very canny drafting of [TS]

01:08:03   Skeletor in the character draft are you [TS]

01:08:07   guys doing episode right now [TS]

01:08:08   no we're not no we're not in New York [TS]

01:08:10   you weren't you weren't not invited to [TS]

01:08:12   it [TS]

01:08:13   yeah cause I'm just sitting here all by [TS]

01:08:15   myself I you know in a hotel room in the [TS]

01:08:18   dark so doing a podcast would have been [TS]

01:08:20   a nice break [TS]

01:08:21   yeah it kind of would have but seeing as [TS]

01:08:23   you guys aren't doing an episode or [TS]

01:08:24   anything that's a that's cool that's ok [TS]

01:08:27   alright so what happened now [TS]

01:08:30   oh nothing nothing ok nothin just [TS]

01:08:33   checking in [TS]

01:08:33   just making sure you're okay oh yeah I'm [TS]

01:08:36   my I just tightened up this rope [TS]

01:08:39   all right watch out for laser pointers [TS]

01:08:43   all right that's right well we we have [TS]

01:08:45   promised somebody would die in this [TS]

01:08:48   episode because that that adds to the [TS]

01:08:50   drama so what kind of kind of darkens [TS]

01:08:54   that up a bit doesn't it yeah it was [TS]

01:08:57   always going to say so so good luck with [TS]

01:08:58   that Steve and we'll talk to you later [TS]

01:09:00   oh hey it's a it's been good knowing you [TS]

01:09:02   i mean i talkin to ya [TS]

01:09:04   yeah thanks good congratulations on [TS]

01:09:05   mescaline rethink know that was great [TS]

01:09:07   ya allah i'll put that in my note okay [TS]

01:09:10   yeah let's everybody [TS]

01:09:14   oh that was missing deliciously awkward [TS]

01:09:18   done my ignorance [TS]

01:09:20   mm I don't have a new least favorite [TS]

01:09:23   moment [TS]

01:09:24   yeah that will be used to square hitch [TS]

01:09:27   not all right I don't cleanse favorite [TS]

01:09:34   moments [TS]

01:09:34   what's that it Stephen Fry was that [TS]

01:09:38   doesn't percent know that's my favorite [TS]

01:09:42   the affair actually early was was a [TS]

01:09:44   doctor Sherlock in the multi man that [TS]

01:09:47   was that was red and John Syracuse's [TS]

01:09:49   first episode I was that's good times [TS]

01:09:53   and then Dan and Glenn and Scott and I [TS]

01:09:55   were the guests on the on our first [TS]

01:09:57   episode that we did so you guys were [TS]

01:09:58   there from the very start [TS]

01:10:00   that's right we're getting over the fact [TS]

01:10:02   that you didn't ask me to be on the [TS]

01:10:03   Indiana Jones craters Lost Ark episode I [TS]

01:10:05   didn't I I just don't think i was [TS]

01:10:07   thinking if only I knew then what I know [TS]

01:10:10   now that's something you should have [TS]

01:10:12   discussed that would be the origin story [TS]

01:10:13   can have an episode with the origin [TS]

01:10:15   story being comfortable because I'll i [TS]

01:10:16   have some vague recollections of how it [TS]

01:10:18   came to be but I think they're wrong so [TS]

01:10:20   Jason should tell you may have we have [TS]

01:10:21   we have two was their way back to spider [TS]

01:10:23   is already that's that's that's exactly [TS]

01:10:26   know there was like an email thread that [TS]

01:10:28   yet [TS]

01:10:29   I think Glenn was involved with that [TS]

01:10:31   basically ruined everything and then we [TS]

01:10:33   had a podcast 400 up again i think i was [TS]

01:10:35   actually how did I realize everything in [TS]

01:10:39   the best house [TS]

01:10:40   this should be hella podcast really part [TS]

01:10:42   of it yeah would it be great if we could [TS]

01:10:43   talk about this stuff i think was a [TS]

01:10:45   phrase that was bandied about [TS]

01:10:46   and here we are well this is all part of [TS]

01:10:50   my evil plan you know ended up so 200 [TS]

01:10:52   i'll reveal reveal it got back last us [TS]

01:10:54   all but you're only halfway we're [TS]

01:10:56   playing the long game here too [TS]

01:10:57   by done lots will come back from the [TS]

01:11:00   dead you will be tuned folks like elit [TS]

01:11:02   or he'll be back he'll be alive in the [TS]

01:11:04   next episode just like Skeletor I yeah [TS]

01:11:07   John it was a it was an interesting day [TS]

01:11:11   I just didn't know I mean we were just [TS]

01:11:12   we were just trying to figure it out and [TS]

01:11:14   and I do like to take some credit for [TS]

01:11:16   your appearance on a popular podcast [TS]

01:11:18   that you now have because I felt like we [TS]

01:11:20   got there we got you we got you on the [TS]

01:11:22   air first or at least early on but you [TS]

01:11:25   know if we were still those early [TS]

01:11:27   episodes are kind of messy and we're [TS]

01:11:29   figuring it out and and then we kind of [TS]

01:11:33   hit our group so but I was surprised I I [TS]

01:11:35   my recollection was that you and red [TS]

01:11:36   both came in a little bit later but it's [TS]

01:11:38   episode 3 how late could it be [TS]

01:11:39   it was like because we were like that of [TS]

01:11:41   our Raiders we're not even there with [TS]

01:11:42   help really like Raiders we don't like [TS]

01:11:46   that movie not popular [TS]

01:11:47   well it you know Gruber was in that [TS]

01:11:49   episode and it's really hard to get yeah [TS]

01:11:50   I want to see them back never who at [TS]

01:11:53   some say i'm really left on a high note [TS]

01:11:55   you know your real friends are Jason I i [TS]

01:11:58   searched i searched my email and I know [TS]

01:12:01   that i forgot that the incomparable was [TS]

01:12:03   almost called Zeppelin enthusiasts as [TS]

01:12:05   epsilon enthusiasm is my preferred name [TS]

01:12:07   for it but it turned out everybody else [TS]

01:12:09   thought that was like being in a Led [TS]

01:12:10   Zeppelin fan club [TS]

01:12:12   nothing wrong with that so I got a point [TS]

01:12:14   out that I i searched through my my [TS]

01:12:16   inbox and found a couple of the earliest [TS]

01:12:18   emails might my favorite moment though [TS]

01:12:21   is so this is an email where Jason sent [TS]

01:12:23   out the first podcast sample of what we [TS]

01:12:26   recorded saying you know here's your [TS]

01:12:28   record today it's not final but you know [TS]

01:12:30   if you're curious take a listen and the [TS]

01:12:31   first reply comes from John Syracuse's [TS]

01:12:33   and says good episode a little Mike [TS]

01:12:35   breathing by someone early on can't tell [TS]

01:12:37   who [TS]

01:12:37   but other than that I think if I think I [TS]

01:12:40   know you will note i have purchased and [TS]

01:12:42   use when you so worried [TS]

01:12:45   you sound fantastic you had your [TS]

01:12:49   breathing in HD from Tori stereo and no [TS]

01:12:53   in instantly in order to find all these [TS]

01:12:55   old emails i search for Zeppelin in my [TS]

01:12:57   mouth [TS]

01:12:59   see from the very start I made a being [TS]

01:13:02   comparable folder which is where all of [TS]

01:13:04   this email has been going since time [TS]

01:13:06   immemorial which makes it very easy to [TS]

01:13:08   find [TS]

01:13:09   terrible terrible things but i haven't [TS]

01:13:12   actually gone back until until just now [TS]

01:13:14   because dan suggested it [TS]

01:13:16   it's kind of amusing my recreation the [TS]

01:13:19   beginning of this is that I wish your [TS]

01:13:21   mother was on Twitter unfortunately [TS]

01:13:23   twitter is impossible to search back in [TS]

01:13:25   time for but it was a discussion about [TS]

01:13:27   something like a book or a movie or [TS]

01:13:28   something between like me and and and [TS]

01:13:31   Jason and a couple other people at [TS]

01:13:33   replying until there was no more room [TS]

01:13:34   left for the text and this big long [TS]

01:13:36   conversation about stuff and it was [TS]

01:13:37   suggested very at some point by somebody [TS]

01:13:40   yes yeah he's trying to use Twitter to [TS]

01:13:42   discuss this thing will be much easier [TS]

01:13:43   we just like the time and i have found [TS]

01:13:45   the message i found a mess right longest [TS]

01:13:47   fifth and it's the subject friend you [TS]

01:13:49   you have to search for the subject geeky [TS]

01:13:51   podcast yeah I is one [TS]

01:13:54   yeah I found that and it is earlier [TS]

01:13:55   today in the midst of discussion of [TS]

01:13:56   scifi books I just suggested on twitter [TS]

01:13:58   that I might start a podcast devoted to [TS]

01:13:59   discussion of gear media stuff I even [TS]

01:14:02   mentioned some of you as possible [TS]

01:14:02   participants I'm thinking running with [TS]

01:14:04   this concept so let me know what you be [TS]

01:14:06   interested in being a regular or [TS]

01:14:08   irregular participant Jason I'm not [TS]

01:14:10   interested [TS]

01:14:11   yeah kind of please take me off your man [TS]

01:14:13   with hatred cast with some people [TS]

01:14:15   talking at once uh-uh so if i don't [TS]

01:14:18   really deliver on that rotate always [TS]

01:14:20   artfully I was going to mention when we [TS]

01:14:22   were talking about which I slipped my [TS]

01:14:23   mind was that it is nice to have a form [TS]

01:14:26   in this age of social networking where [TS]

01:14:28   we are all limited 240 characters it is [TS]

01:14:30   nice to have a medium where we can talk [TS]

01:14:31   for three ports so what was what was the [TS]

01:14:36   Twitter discussion that's what I want to [TS]

01:14:37   know we have to find my guess is that it [TS]

01:14:40   was it was me and like Glen and and and [TS]

01:14:43   skype lies about people typically added [TS]

01:14:45   to its eventually I think we started [TS]

01:14:47   joking and adding more and more people [TS]

01:14:48   and eventually f it was like 13 twitter [TS]

01:14:51   handles and you can do like one word if [TS]

01:14:53   i'm remembering that discuss yeah I [TS]

01:14:55   didn't like it if I could point to a [TS]

01:14:57   date you know August fifth but that was [TS]

01:14:59   it yeah yeah [TS]

01:15:01   well I I think we've talked about [TS]

01:15:04   ourselves far too much already so we [TS]

01:15:05   promise not to do it again for another [TS]

01:15:07   hundred episodes or so but this was [TS]

01:15:10   great i appreciate you guys coming on [TS]

01:15:12   and not just in this episode but in the [TS]

01:15:15   many many episodes that you've been on [TS]

01:15:17   and here's to a hundred more episodes of [TS]

01:15:21   the incomparable so Dan Morgan you are [TS]

01:15:24   the you're in the lead by a lot so thank [TS]

01:15:27   you very much for being on many episodes [TS]

01:15:30   you're welcome and in the next 100 [TS]

01:15:31   episodes i will pass you okay i keep [TS]

01:15:36   saying to people go ahead and host [TS]

01:15:38   episodes without me because that my [TS]

01:15:39   first let's look for more episodes we [TS]

01:15:41   just they're still McCann there in the [TS]

01:15:42   camera they're gonna be rolling out and [TS]

01:15:45   all those suckers out just one major [TS]

01:15:47   that's kind of airdrop it's like [TS]

01:15:49   everyone you have ever seen [TS]

01:15:51   yep and lex is not any of them of course [TS]

01:15:54   not because he hasn't seen anything [TS]

01:15:56   serenity Caldwell half of all the [TS]

01:15:59   episodes I I cannot believe it you've [TS]

01:16:01   been on half the episode so thank you [TS]

01:16:02   very much [TS]

01:16:03   can I you're welcome it has been a [TS]

01:16:05   pleasure i even when I end up reading [TS]

01:16:10   books like The Magicians oh I suffer [TS]

01:16:13   through it for the two you know [TS]

01:16:16   dedication of being on the income below [TS]

01:16:18   you can if there's a book you don't like [TS]

01:16:21   yeah have you ready for your face or [TS]

01:16:22   deadline i had i did read feet i did not [TS]

01:16:25   read deadline out everybody [TS]

01:16:27   I think you have to stop yeah [TS]

01:16:30   complainings we don't we're not [TS]

01:16:34   complaining here we're just criticizing [TS]

01:16:36   Oh what we didn't carry a heinlein Scott [TS]

01:16:39   multi-year one behind serenity Caldwell [TS]

01:16:41   so you can just sneak on past and blow [TS]

01:16:42   into second place through in a few [TS]

01:16:44   string together everything I said in all [TS]

01:16:46   of my appearances it probably equals [TS]

01:16:48   like three of everyone else's yeah [TS]

01:16:51   basically would be the running time of [TS]

01:16:52   all steve lets his appearances from [TS]

01:16:55   somebody please make that supercut got [TS]

01:16:57   Mykelti only of the incompetent 100 [TS]

01:16:59   episodes please [TS]

01:17:00   yeah that would be great that's like a [TS]

01:17:02   sniper that i'll be the funniest episode [TS]

01:17:04   ever be very short but you'll be home [TS]

01:17:06   lyrics rimshots after everything because [TS]

01:17:08   he is the sniper silenced sniper of [TS]

01:17:11   comedy [TS]

01:17:11   just wait in the weeds [TS]

01:17:13   everybody talks and then he goes boom [TS]

01:17:15   and then issued Steve less than the head [TS]

01:17:17   and that's right all over from there [TS]

01:17:19   it's a mercy killing really John [TS]

01:17:21   syracuse oh thank you very much for [TS]

01:17:23   being on episode three and 42 more after [TS]

01:17:27   that you know I'm never going to be on [TS]

01:17:29   as many episodes as the other guys [TS]

01:17:31   because I just don't read many books and [TS]

01:17:32   yet percentage that are about books but [TS]

01:17:34   I hope my I've shown my dedication for [TS]

01:17:37   example i remember in the New Hope [TS]

01:17:38   episode i was getting over a cold and I [TS]

01:17:42   had lost my voice for days leading up to [TS]

01:17:44   that was like just got to get my voice [TS]

01:17:45   back enough to be able to croak my way [TS]

01:17:47   through a new hope and I did it and if [TS]

01:17:48   you go back and listen to that episode I [TS]

01:17:50   sound awful [TS]

01:17:51   that's the congratulation i have I [TS]

01:17:53   appreciate us and and you have read I [TS]

01:17:55   mean you've read a couple thousand page [TS]

01:17:56   books for this podcast to you shouldn't [TS]

01:17:58   sell yourself short [TS]

01:17:59   it's patrick rothfuss books they don't [TS]

01:18:01   read themselves they're very long very [TS]

01:18:03   creepy it if they did they might be very [TS]

01:18:07   great [TS]

01:18:07   well you know audiobooks it i guess they [TS]

01:18:10   do read themselves really if you buy the [TS]

01:18:12   audio book Glenn fleischmann you've been [TS]

01:18:15   on 30 episodes and everyone in every one [TS]

01:18:18   of them your cleansing because that's [TS]

01:18:20   what you do [TS]

01:18:21   thanks for being here it's sort of my [TS]

01:18:22   job the show Jason I want to thank you [TS]

01:18:24   for the time and effort you put into [TS]

01:18:26   this one of those fun things i do a [TS]

01:18:28   regular basis and I appreciate you [TS]

01:18:30   making this all happen on a regular [TS]

01:18:32   basis and i also appreciate unlike [TS]

01:18:35   perhaps some listeners I do appreciate [TS]

01:18:36   the titles the show because for me they [TS]

01:18:38   bring back i can read dr. Sherlock in [TS]

01:18:41   the multi man and the whole episode [TS]

01:18:43   floods back my head that's good [TS]

01:18:47   and in that case if it's an episode you [TS]

01:18:48   liked then then that's very good [TS]

01:18:51   so for the next hundred episodes and [TS]

01:18:53   beyond you know we'll be back with a new [TS]

01:18:56   episode of the uncomfortable in the next [TS]

01:18:58   week or two and until then thanks [TS]

01:19:00   everybody for listening [TS]

01:19:02   if you people didn't listen to this [TS]

01:19:03   podcast well I guess we've revealed that [TS]

01:19:06   we would still do it but we would [TS]

01:19:08   probably swear a lot more and not wear [TS]

01:19:10   pants [TS]

01:19:11   so thank you for keeping us in line dear [TS]

01:19:13   listeners until next time this is jason [TS]

01:19:16   aldean comparable thanks for listening [TS]

01:19:18   again goodnight [TS]

01:19:32   their story [TS]