0:00:00I i should tell you the title of this
0:00:01episode is going to be obscure
0:00:02references and sadness because allah
0:00:06says that's that's your stock and trade
0:00:09apparently but it's absolutely true
0:00:13absolutely good the incomparable Todd
0:00:20test number 98 july 2012
0:00:25hi there I'm Lex Friedman i'm joined by
0:00:28three very very cool people and they are
0:00:30in no particular order
0:00:31John siracusa likes Scott McNulty hello
0:00:36and Greg moss either
0:00:40hello and tonight we are all talking
0:00:43together about Jonathan Coulton the man
0:00:47the myth the internet legend who I guess
0:00:50in most of the press I seabed jonathan
0:00:53coulton or joko to his fans these days
0:00:55they sort of describe him as a geek
0:00:56rocker
0:00:57I don't know if you guys would accept
0:00:58that label or not but I'm seeing it
0:01:00applied to him more and more but we're
0:01:02going to talk about his music and his
0:01:03over and some of our favorite Colton
0:01:05songs and why we like him so much
0:01:07so why don't we just to sort of get
0:01:11things started
0:01:12kick off by discussing how you first
0:01:15became aware of Jonathan cold what your
0:01:16introduction to him was and I pic Scott
0:01:20McNulty to go first
0:01:22ah alright i have prepared this because
0:01:25i knew that i had blogged about when i
0:01:28first heard about Jonathan Coulton so i
0:01:30googled myself and jonathan coulton and
0:01:33read my blog post so i could remember
0:01:37what how is this show is so he did a
0:01:39cover of a baby got back
0:01:43as we all may remember and so someone
0:01:47linked that on their blog and a so this
0:01:50was what in 2006 i guess so that's when
0:01:54he first came across my radar and then
0:01:58he started doing a bunch of other things
0:02:00that got more attention and he did the
0:02:03thing weak stuff and then he did the
0:02:06portal song and got very popular and and
0:02:08so that's my story and I'm sticking to
0:02:10it
0:02:11excellent job not surprisingly my first
0:02:15encounter with him was also the baby got
0:02:17back song and I don't even remember
0:02:18where I got it from was one of those
0:02:19things you get floating around the
0:02:21internet and I'd I didn't make any
0:02:23connection of an artist with it because
0:02:25you know when you get songs on the
0:02:26internet and I go hey listen to this one
0:02:27song let's do you like an yeah it's nice
0:02:29I and then you forget about it all right
0:02:31but just one for whatever reason like I
0:02:36did basically forget about it and they
0:02:37were like oh there's this guy doing this
0:02:39thing where he's going to record a song
0:02:40every week and his name is not say Frank
0:02:43although you might get them confused
0:02:44initially a micro yeah i think i saw the
0:02:46guys didn't even notice guys doing music
0:02:48and it's like a new one every weekend
0:02:49starts up i want to his website and I
0:02:50said hey that's the guy who did the baby
0:02:52got back think so he went from a one-hit
0:02:55internet wonder immediately to a guy
0:02:57whose name I should remember and watch
0:03:00for and I watched thing week with
0:03:02varying levels of interest because it
0:03:04still is still at that point I'm like
0:03:05alright so we did this cute cover and
0:03:07he's trying to these songs with some of
0:03:08them are kind of crazy but you know I
0:03:09you know I might come together but
0:03:11probably he's doomed to failure but as
0:03:13we all know he did not fail and he just
0:03:16continued to grow in stature and I'm I
0:03:18following of him became more and more
0:03:20rabbit overtime culminating in today
0:03:22great was baby got back your
0:03:25introduction as well I it might have
0:03:27been but the only the first conscious
0:03:29memory I have Jonathan Coulton is code
0:03:31monkey i bet there was a period where
0:03:33people sensitive singer-songwriters were
0:03:36recording various rap songs i have and i
0:03:40don't remember her name but she's a
0:03:41sensitive singer-songwriter who recorded
0:03:43straight outta compton and I really like
0:03:46that and so I remember looking for
0:03:48others and finding a couple and I maybe
0:03:51baby got back was among those but the
0:03:53first time I remember the name jonathan
0:03:55coulton was codemonkey late comer
0:03:57understood you know I for me was not it
0:04:02wasn't code monkey and it wasn't baby
0:04:04got back but it was during I i had a
0:04:07friend a longtime friend and
0:04:09collaborator who i would write songs
0:04:12with Goofy songs with all the time and
0:04:14it was the week but it is baby got back
0:04:16was part of thing a week 1 which I guess
0:04:18we could talk a little bit about more
0:04:19than a couple minutes but the week
0:04:21before baby got back was released
0:04:23release the song called shop vac and it
0:04:26was my friend Seth sent me links to look
0:04:28at this guy he's trying to do a song
0:04:29every week for a year
0:04:30why didn't we think of that that's
0:04:32certainly we don't have the talent or
0:04:33musicianship or even you know any of the
0:04:36the brilliant sensibilities that that
0:04:38Colton has but so I heard that song shot
0:04:40back and I had to go back and listen to
0:04:42the first couple of songs that he had
0:04:43done and then I was listening every week
0:04:45and you know they're at at one point at
0:04:48first I was just going to his blog where
0:04:50he was posting these songs as you record
0:04:51them each week and then I would at some
0:04:53point he put made them available for
0:04:55purchase on his website and when he made
0:04:58them available for purchase
0:04:59he had go to the website and such a way
0:05:00that was very easy to get all the songs
0:05:03without paying for them which I did and
0:05:05then felt terribly about and then I went
0:05:07and paypal him and his amnesty program
0:05:10to make up for my wrongdoing and i still
0:05:14feel bad about it which is why I'm
0:05:16admitting to it publicly now you're a
0:05:18disappointment to us all
0:05:20yeah well so I i asked everybody to come
0:05:23prepared with their three favorite
0:05:26jonathan coulton songs with it was for
0:05:29me that was a very difficult decision
0:05:30was I think probably even harder than
0:05:32sophie's choice but she's never there
0:05:36was some there was some debate before
0:05:39the show about whether this was going to
0:05:41be draft style meeting each long curly
0:05:42picked will be picked once or not and I
0:05:44have made the executive decision that
0:05:46multiple people can pick the same songs
0:05:48because I want them to be true to their
0:05:50three favorites and because he
0:05:53disapproves of that approach
0:05:55I'll let Jonathan siracusa go first
0:05:58Jonathan they tell us your first of your
0:05:59three favorite songs that need not be in
0:06:01any particular order a call me Jonathan
0:06:03because it's jonathan coulton reference
0:06:04because you think my name is actually
0:06:05Jonathan I guess was because i was
0:06:09thinking of cold and I was looking at my
0:06:10Jonathan cold notes inside all right
0:06:11well you know job just pretend to
0:06:13Google's I i we had this is an ordered
0:06:16list or unordered this is unordered list
0:06:18this is ul alright i guess i'm going to
0:06:21start with probably indeed takes the
0:06:24throne for all time favorite but it
0:06:25wasn't my original favorite so it's kind
0:06:28of like my current favorite but i think
0:06:29it will be tough to knock off of this
0:06:30person that it's not a particularly
0:06:32unique or interesting favorite and about
0:06:34other people have picked it but there
0:06:35you have it
0:06:36it is the future soon which is a song
0:06:38that's about as straightforward as a
0:06:43gentleman called the song can be it's
0:06:44about a disaffected nerdy youth and
0:06:47robots and cyborgs and all those sorts
0:06:51of things you would imagine a parody
0:06:54jonathan coulton song will be about
0:06:55[Music]
0:07:05last guy no llores it said I love you
0:07:11signed anonymous friend turns out modern
0:07:16that thought
0:07:19she knows
0:07:21now the whole
0:07:22do and
0:07:24game on
0:07:25double skate
0:07:29she died
0:07:33but I know
0:07:37what happened
0:07:40don't know
0:07:46the way things that maybe
0:07:53just and the reason i like it took a
0:07:56while to grow on me because a lot of the
0:07:57songs first listening to him i tend to
0:07:59listen to music listening for the music
0:08:01first and lyrics second and so I didn't
0:08:04really listen to what the lyrics are
0:08:05about my god just kind of like a
0:08:07mid-tempo rocky kind of song whatever I
0:08:09and then as I listened to it a couple
0:08:11more times I actually listened to the
0:08:12lyrics with sound strange talking about
0:08:14Jonathan Coulton song I listen to lyrics
0:08:16but it's just the way things tend to
0:08:17grow on me and the thing I love so much
0:08:20about the story is that it starts out as
0:08:21a kind of clichéd like oh I'm a nerd
0:08:23and you know I have a crush on a girl
0:08:26but she doesn't like me and I'm sad
0:08:28right you know that that's not going
0:08:29anywhere right but it quickly turns into
0:08:32a story about all right well that's my
0:08:36life now but things will get better
0:08:37later because i will use my big nerdy
0:08:40brain to do these awesome things and
0:08:43maybe i'll work on my own you know race
0:08:45of a robot android army that might
0:08:49destroy the world and then i'll go and
0:08:51talk to her and you know we'll finally
0:08:54get together potential realize I'm the
0:08:55guy who destroyed the entire rent so
0:08:57it's it it's an elaborate fantasy spun
0:08:59out by this nerdy guy and it doesn't end
0:09:00and hey i will have this elaborate
0:09:02fantasy and in the end of my fantasy I
0:09:04will get the girl and I'll show them all
0:09:06it ends in a self-destructive conclusion
0:09:10where despite his best efforts or
0:09:12because of his best efforts he ends up
0:09:14you know destroying the things that he
0:09:16loves totally consumed by bitterness and
0:09:18enslaving this girl that he's after so
0:09:20it's I loved it so much because it's it
0:09:22nicely captures the feeling of when
0:09:24you're you know a nerdy kid that even in
0:09:27your fantasy scenarios things and
0:09:28horribly for you and it's all because
0:09:31it's all because of your own instincts
0:09:34and you're like you know like this the
0:09:36sentiment underlying it all that you
0:09:38know all these awkward things about me
0:09:39we'll go in the future and I'll be
0:09:40better but this the realization that you
0:09:42know wherever you go there you are like
0:09:43I'm gonna have to become okay with
0:09:45myself otherwise things are going to
0:09:46turn out nicely in the end and that that
0:09:50kind of bittersweet pessimistic
0:09:52optimistic you know cliche but counter
0:09:55cliche thing is like the perfect the
0:09:58perfect formula for that Jonathan
0:10:00Coulton in my mind that's that's my
0:10:01favorite
0:10:02it's you know and for me one thing i
0:10:05like about that one specifically is just
0:10:07the the phrasing of the the title and
0:10:09thus the course you know that I just
0:10:11feel like the that term that is going to
0:10:13be the future soon as a a clever way of
0:10:16phrasing that conceit yeah i mean that
0:10:19the title is a little he's very good
0:10:20with the word play like his songs are
0:10:23like the most straightforward like
0:10:24they're not too clever but they're just
0:10:27a little bit off and he's just very
0:10:29tight and very concise with with the
0:10:31music and the lyrics it's his is a great
0:10:33songwriter I'm really surprised that you
0:10:36listen to the music before you listen to
0:10:37the words just in general
0:10:39well like you know just knowing you're
0:10:40auditioning songs like especially when i
0:10:42was doing things a week it's like let's
0:10:43see what he's got this week and you
0:10:45listen to it's like some of them like
0:10:46the music production quality is not
0:10:48great and and some of the things a week
0:10:50things and you never know which one is
0:10:51going to come out and like he has really
0:10:53good pop sensibilities with hooks but
0:10:55sometimes the one with the best hooks
0:10:57have the least interesting lyrics you
0:10:59know and and it was one every single
0:11:00week and i was paying you know kind of
0:11:01tangential attention so that's that's
0:11:03how i came to this and I circle back
0:11:05around eventually and and and the future
0:11:07soon you know when to the top of verses
0:11:09my second choice which I listened to the
0:11:10lyrics right off for some reason and
0:11:12that was my old favorite so we'll get to
0:11:14that next you know I just want to ask
0:11:17have you ever heard John the i fight
0:11:19dragons cover of the future soon i
0:11:21probably have at this point i've heard
0:11:23many covers of many developing called
0:11:25songs but I don't recognize the the
0:11:26artist
0:11:27it's aight i didn't know the artist
0:11:29before that cover but it sort of I don't
0:11:30know that if the writers like a chip to
0:11:32notice it's got a video game sound ya to
0:11:35it it's very well done anyway i Fight
0:11:37Dragons the cover the future student if
0:11:39the future soon is like a robot
0:11:41apocalypse version of an it gets better
0:11:43video right but doesn't get better right
0:11:46it gets worse it gets better the says
0:11:48that he does get to destroy the world
0:11:50and no one else did but he still doesn't
0:11:51get what he wanted
0:11:52there's nowhere you can hide yeah yeah
0:11:54yeah that that is going to be a theme i
0:11:56think of this discussion but you can't
0:11:58always get what you want but if you try
0:12:00sometimes you just might find that you
0:12:02fail anyway
0:12:03yeah I think that's right in my
0:12:07introduction colon remains my favorite
0:12:09which is code monkey going to get up.get
0:12:11copy good monkey go to job code monkey a
0:12:17boring meeting boring manager Rob very
0:12:24diligent but its output this elegant
0:12:30good monkey fake
0:13:01because I it's a song that of course is
0:13:05about a nerdy guy who can't get the girl
0:13:07which has a particular relevance to my
0:13:11life prior to my marriage but there's
0:13:14also it was the first song that my kids
0:13:18really took to that wasn't the kids song
0:13:20you know they listened to a whole bunch
0:13:22of crap that was aimed at them that was
0:13:25marketed at them you know that was
0:13:27designed for five-year-olds and code
0:13:30monkey was the first song that we they
0:13:32didn't I listen to that they asked to
0:13:35have played and like my eldest son he
0:13:37would take a sheet of eight and a half
0:13:39by 11 paper and he latched onto the line
0:13:43big fuzzy secret heart and he drew a
0:13:46heart the size of the page
0:13:48Andrew very fine hairs around the
0:13:49outside of it and put a classified stamp
0:13:51over it and hang it on the fridge and so
0:13:54because i have very literal-minded
0:13:56children so it'sit's I associate the
0:13:59song not only with really enjoying it
0:14:01and it having relevance to me but also
0:14:02that Mike kids came into an age when
0:14:06they started growing up when they
0:14:07stopped being kids and they started
0:14:09looking at a wider world and finding
0:14:11things that that I could enjoy that they
0:14:13could also enjoy the same time it's the
0:14:15very transitional phase and it will
0:14:18always stick with me because of that you
0:14:20know what I think of that song I think
0:14:21of him sitting was I don't even remember
0:14:24that was a thing of weeks on but all the
0:14:25songs i think of him sitting there and
0:14:26saying okay I gotta write a song so we
0:14:28got our song always need a reason so
0:14:29come meet me an idea i come to the idea
0:14:31of you know okay you ready i can't get
0:14:33the girl kinda to that already but hit
0:14:34the idea that makes them go you know now
0:14:36I got it is that ok I'm going to the
0:14:38lyrics like in like monkey speak right
0:14:40now so it's so it's you know it's double
0:14:42like I could just do this is a
0:14:43straight-ahead song but i'm also going
0:14:45to do them you know codemonkey get up
0:14:46get coffee like and caveman speak and
0:14:48that's it that once you have the idea
0:14:50then it's off to the races and that that
0:14:51is a great idea and it adds like a an
0:14:53extra you know level of difficulty to
0:14:55undo the song but the challenge myself
0:14:57since I've done these nerdy songs i'm
0:14:58gonna do it as a monkey and it makes it
0:15:0010 * better i also think it works on two
0:15:02levels both as monkey speak and as
0:15:03pseudo code
0:15:04yep that works well and it was thinking
0:15:08we could stay a week 3 what I always
0:15:10think about with code monkey is
0:15:12you know Jonathan Colton's job before he
0:15:14decided I'm gonna quit and start doing
0:15:15this thing a weakling photo year it was
0:15:17a coder and he's you know he said that
0:15:19this song is not exactly he said that
0:15:21the boss part is how to fire a graphical
0:15:23but the the pining after the specific
0:15:26woman was not but I mean I was once a
0:15:28code monkey and I just I hated I mean
0:15:30there's things about programming that i
0:15:31like but doing programming where
0:15:33specifically doing one of the persons
0:15:34building and you can flex any creative
0:15:36muscle i understand that monkey
0:15:38mentality and not wanting to be the
0:15:39monkey
0:15:40I don't know that that's always what I
0:15:41think about him working in that job and
0:15:43not loving it
0:15:43there's also the my children really
0:15:47adoring the line goddamn login page they
0:15:50took particular delight in that just
0:15:52singing the song dad that's interesting
0:15:57that he's able to communicate like I you
0:16:01know I don't know if I knew he was a
0:16:03programmer at the time I listen to that
0:16:05but I said he is using the correct
0:16:07vocabulary modified by the monkey speak
0:16:10/ pseudocode to express a sin to make
0:16:13with the correct language like I a
0:16:15counterexample this would be kind of
0:16:17like a weird al's all about the Pentiums
0:16:19which you can tell we're down two tons
0:16:21of good research to get his lyrics to be
0:16:23technically accurate but you could also
0:16:24tell that weird al is not a programmer
0:16:25right i mean whereas in this one he
0:16:28there are very few technical words in it
0:16:30all but the monkey speak yet you know
0:16:32right god damn log in page himself
0:16:34that's how managers would talk about
0:16:35things we need to login page on this
0:16:37like if you were working on the web as a
0:16:38programmer during that time that lingo
0:16:40coming from bosses talk to you know
0:16:43spitting it back at them you know rings
0:16:45true and I think I feel like even the
0:16:47the tab mountain dew work and the other
0:16:49that they wouldn't necessarily be it i
0:16:53don't know that that weird i would have
0:16:54gone to tab mountain dew
0:16:55I mean I really like we don't feel like
0:16:57that's but that's that's that's an
0:16:59insider knowledge not those are Insider
0:17:01E sodas but just to know that that that
0:17:03level of caffeine is what's important to
0:17:04certain app code monkeys i think is good
0:17:07all right Scott hit us with your first
0:17:10choice
0:17:11okay well I i am a person who does not
0:17:15enjoy Christmas generally but i do enjoy
0:17:17Christmas songs and i also enjoy
0:17:21Christmas socks that are mostly
0:17:22inappropriate for Christmas and so
0:17:25Jonathan has a number of these songs in
0:17:28him and my favorite is a chiron beta
0:17:31prime this here is there a crazy party
0:17:34and you Mary
0:17:37it's in trouble
0:17:38here the council had a Spanish
0:17:42right that has
0:17:45No
0:17:53red time
0:17:54merry Christmas from chyron beta pride
0:17:59where we were
0:18:02which tells the story of a family who
0:18:05has been captured or sent to a planet
0:18:09where they are mining things and you
0:18:12know being punished and they don't they
0:18:13can only tell it's Christmas because
0:18:15they have scrawled in their cell the
0:18:17number of days it has been since they
0:18:19were captured and so they they're
0:18:22singing they sing the song to uh as a
0:18:25christmas greeting to their friends and
0:18:27then they try to slip in a plea for help
0:18:30but then Jon Coulton cleverly put in a
0:18:33robot voice that says message redacted
0:18:36so you don't hear that part of the song
0:18:38and so it just lights me to play the
0:18:41song during christmas so that i can ruin
0:18:44everyone else's Christmas when you're
0:18:46the guy who kept voting for grandma got
0:18:47run over by a reindeer on dr. Demento
0:18:49where yeah that was but yes you know I i
0:18:53had chiron beta prime on my backup list
0:18:55you know since I couldn't live with
0:18:57myself 23 at first but I i will say and
0:19:00I really really like the song i have i
0:19:02have complaints I know
0:19:04here are my complaints and i have put
0:19:07two number one first I think you know
0:19:09the first verses i think are very
0:19:10brilliantly know the lyrics are really
0:19:13brilliantly done you know that you know
0:19:15that the the hardships their enduring
0:19:17having undermine their holiday cheer and
0:19:19you know did I say overlords I mean
0:19:21protectors i really like when singers
0:19:23correct themselves during a song you
0:19:24know because it's as if the song is
0:19:26happening right then live you know I
0:19:28like that but my two problems are one
0:19:30with that message rejected line which is
0:19:32a great joke the whole thing is a song
0:19:36and its it all Rhymes and I cannot come
0:19:40up with a realistic line that could have
0:19:41gone there that would have run before
0:19:43they rejected the message and I don't
0:19:44like that i want to know what they're
0:19:45going to say and then to is just two
0:19:48lines later he makes the Soylent Green
0:19:51joke and i think that the Soylent Green
0:19:52joke is below beneath him and beneath
0:19:54the song i like good soil green joke so
0:19:58i will allow it I only can criticize the
0:20:05song because of how much i love I the
0:20:07this doesn't to track for my overall
0:20:08enjoyment of the song but because I have
0:20:10such you know fandom for it I feel like
0:20:12it's important for me to voice these two
0:20:15can separate it you've done a service
0:20:18for the world likes don't worry anybody
0:20:21else want to weigh in on chiron beta
0:20:22prime this is I think the first time
0:20:24we've mentioned it's not from being a
0:20:25week directly right well maybe it was
0:20:29never my number on it from think a week
0:20:30to my nokia cool i know nothing i'm
0:20:35curious to see if anybody pics anything
0:20:37from artificial heart i have two
0:20:38selections from artificial heart people
0:20:40into the onion on your main list on your
0:20:42mind on my main list i have my have one
0:20:45from artificial heart as well so my
0:20:47first pick is not from artificial heart
0:20:49and it is one of the few songs i think
0:20:52that I could say that I love that has a
0:20:53colon in the title and that is read your
0:20:58brains
0:20:59hey Tom it's bob from the office down
0:21:02all
0:21:05good to see you buddy have you been
0:21:10things have been ok for me except that
0:21:14i'm a zombie now really wish you
0:21:19the guys big for all of us
0:21:25going to say I understand
0:21:28y-you my desert submit to our
0:21:33here's why
0:21:36you are
0:21:44where
0:21:47I mean no
0:21:49we haven't discussed yet you know how
0:21:51you would classify jonathan coulton you
0:21:54know I think that too many people he's
0:21:55you know a human musician a comic
0:21:58musician and I think you know some
0:21:59people he might even they might even
0:22:00apply the novelty label to him I i don't
0:22:05think any of those really apply I think
0:22:07he's a musician who happens to also be
0:22:08very funny and to inject many of his
0:22:10songs with humor but i enjoy some of his
0:22:11seriousness as much as i enjoy the
0:22:12humerus ones rear brains is I is pretty
0:22:16much a straight comedy song which i
0:22:19think is an exception for him overall
0:22:21but i really like it
0:22:24read your brains is told in the form of
0:22:27sort of that a memo or a series of memos
0:22:30from one co-worker to another and
0:22:31clearly these workers who didn't get get
0:22:33along well before the zombie apocalypse
0:22:34and now that one of them is hiding
0:22:37inside a ball and the other is the
0:22:39zombie and the dictator of the letter
0:22:40expressing his his desire to get inside
0:22:45and eat his former colleagues brain and
0:22:48his inability to do so yet but i really
0:22:50i think this song is it's funny because
0:22:52it like we mentioned earlier you know
0:22:53John you said that you always like to
0:22:55listen to the music first and then you
0:22:57go to lyrics I'm very much the opposite
0:22:58with all the music i listen to for me if
0:23:00I don't like the lyrics than the song is
0:23:01of no interest to me I think that your
0:23:04brains uniquely has a very I don't know
0:23:09the best work for compelling is that it
0:23:10but very cleverly implemented chord
0:23:12structure and I think the lyrics are
0:23:14also just really i think they concede
0:23:16there can only be as far as I'm
0:23:17concerned they're going to be one song
0:23:19told from the perspective of a still
0:23:22very coherent zombie and jonathan
0:23:24coulton wrote it and owns it and I just
0:23:26I think it's excellent that the
0:23:28brilliant thing about the song is that
0:23:29like like his other songs that he's he's
0:23:31got an idea like a letter from a zombie
0:23:33right but that the entire song is a a no
0:23:36parodied statement against office
0:23:38culture for is in a way that's not so
0:23:41distant from actual office culture you
0:23:43know like but with the zombies you know
0:23:45your colleagues who uses stupid business
0:23:47speak are like one centimeter we removed
0:23:50from being zombies so to see them as
0:23:52zombies it's like not that much of a
0:23:53stretch and the things they say that
0:23:56things they say are you know with the
0:23:57exception of the part about eating
0:23:58brains every other word in this song
0:24:00could believe
0:24:01they come out of their mouths in the
0:24:02course of a normal office day because
0:24:03they're just crazy
0:24:04sociopaths that you have to work with
0:24:06and then they just finally admit you
0:24:08know I'm not a monster Tom well okay
0:24:10technically I am
0:24:11that's one of his strengths is that he
0:24:14takes solid I mean all the songs we've
0:24:16mentioned so far have been really high
0:24:17concept there's something in the title
0:24:19that tells you what the song is going to
0:24:20be about but the song itself isn't just
0:24:22that joke repeated over and over and
0:24:23over there again more layers to it
0:24:25that's it that's definitely right
0:24:28the title is not the only joke and it's
0:24:29not the only meaning promise isn't the
0:24:32only joke lyrics like everything
0:24:33everything builds on itself and most of
0:24:35his songs kind of like Bruce Springsteen
0:24:36most of his songs like go somewhere you
0:24:38know like a story and you know it's it's
0:24:41interesting because you know i mentioned
0:24:43that i i'm i'm a big fan of Al Yankovic
0:24:46when you talk about that song like it's
0:24:47all about the Pentiums he has a tendency
0:24:48to do what he even classifies as a list
0:24:51song you know here's my funny concept
0:24:53and i'm going to give funny example
0:24:54after fun example and I think that great
0:24:56you nailed it that is not the approach
0:24:58that that's not the approach to that
0:25:00Colton takes he definitely tries to
0:25:02build and to not just build on jokes if
0:25:05it's a funny song but you know to build
0:25:06somewhere and just that the actual
0:25:08office speak that he puts in that song
0:25:11and that fits so naturally coming out of
0:25:13the zombies mouth is just so perfect
0:25:14night table table this for now I'm sure
0:25:17we get the common ground
0:25:18you know you've heard these in any
0:25:20anybody who's ever worked in corporate
0:25:21America has or these terms and I i enjoy
0:25:24the part where they are trying to talk
0:25:27about of the lock himself in a room
0:25:29writing is like who
0:25:30no one's going to eat your eyes to worry
0:25:32we know that this want to bring a great
0:25:34for like they're supposed to be you know
0:25:35using their smooth business speak but
0:25:37they just they just matter-of-factly say
0:25:39why don't you will come to a decision
0:25:40are compromised will be you open the
0:25:42door welcome and then we'll eat your
0:25:43brains and I didn't realize their you
0:25:45know this that there the zombies is
0:25:47taking over there just coming right out
0:25:48and saying what they wanted trying to
0:25:50get some really hot i don't know how
0:25:52many of you that I know that John has I
0:25:54don't have any of you seen Jonathan
0:25:55Coulton live but when he performs
0:25:58rearrange live the first thing before
0:26:00the song starts as hell and he'll ask
0:26:01the audience to practicing the course he
0:26:04wants the audience to perform the zombie
0:26:05portion of the chorus and generally
0:26:08speaking the audience will sing it well
0:26:10and then he'll correct them afterward
0:26:11say no no remember you are the undead
0:26:13you want
0:26:14Tommy's you must sing it much worse than
0:26:15that and that he encourages the audience
0:26:17to sing it much more horribly instead I
0:26:19always enjoyed that experience this is
0:26:20the one public forum in which my singing
0:26:22abilities are valued and appreciated
0:26:25finally finally I have a reason a
0:26:28command to sing very badly and yes I can
0:26:31do that
0:26:32yes I've seen my many times all the
0:26:34times I am yelling at the top of my
0:26:35lungs and horrible totally off-key
0:26:37zombie saying it was like god that guy
0:26:39is so good at this army thing
0:26:40yeah give us a sample no thank you
0:26:44what happened we're not Jonathan Coulton
0:26:45and I am NOT a giant audience right but
0:26:47yes you should go to show so you two can
0:26:49participate in this ritual i have i've
0:26:52been lucky enough to go so let's go
0:26:55around to John you got to start round
0:26:58one so you get to start round two as
0:26:59well so this was my original favorite
0:27:02jonathan coulton song and it is kind of
0:27:03like you know the beginners fisher price
0:27:06my first jonathan coulton song because
0:27:08if you don't know who he is and you're
0:27:10not sure you write this type of thing
0:27:11you get the song and it will introduce
0:27:12you in a gentle way to what he's all
0:27:15about its i crush everything like to
0:27:17swim getting dizzy in your way getting
0:27:22close
0:27:23have to touch you
0:27:26man
0:27:27bringing down
0:27:32[Music]
0:27:36more
0:27:41for baby
0:27:49because
0:27:50crush
0:27:53so the premise of the song is not
0:27:58apparent on first listening this is kind
0:28:00of a nice thing and you know i crush
0:28:01everything is kind of like Oh what was
0:28:03me everything I touch gets destroyed or
0:28:04whatever and that's what you think the
0:28:06first 12 times you listen to it because
0:28:08you just like our least if you're like
0:28:09me you're like la-di-da fine whatever
0:28:11but then if you actually listen to the
0:28:12lyrics that it's like they don't seem to
0:28:13be making any sense of what the heck are
0:28:15they talking about
0:28:16I very little if you pay just the
0:28:19smallest bit of attention what this song
0:28:22is about will reveal itself to you know
0:28:23deep thought required no deep cultural
0:28:26knowledge of anything it's about a giant
0:28:28squid and what he does is he can't help
0:28:31himself but pole shifts down and you
0:28:33know to destroy them because that's what
0:28:35giant squids do is stereotypically and
0:28:37he feels bad about it and every lyric in
0:28:39the song is like I'm going to you know
0:28:41this is this look seems like a simple
0:28:42song listen to for a second it's about
0:28:44giant squid and it's not obscurely about
0:28:47giant squid it's straightforwardly about
0:28:48giant squid like you know doesn't say
0:28:50hey I'm a giant squid but it does
0:28:51everything but I and I love the
0:28:54sentiment of you know sort of a nice
0:28:57kind of a self tonight and I can't
0:29:00believe we have to pick three songs i
0:29:01can pick up a hundred songs but it's
0:29:02kind of like it yeah it was me kind of
0:29:04song like in a big bad world one or
0:29:06something like that
0:29:07I very simple and straightforward but
0:29:09the fact that it's about a giant squid
0:29:11just tickles me and turns the song on
0:29:14it's a year and that was that was my
0:29:15favorite before the future soon
0:29:16surpassed it i've said this once before
0:29:19and been wrong but I can now say with
0:29:21conviction this is the first song we've
0:29:23selected that is not a thing of weeks on
0:29:26this was from his his album where
0:29:28tradition meets tomorrow it'll just flow
0:29:31that wasn't the future soon also from
0:29:33that was that
0:29:34yeah attractions near our house the
0:29:36future soon and I crush everything
0:29:38well I never said I was good at all
0:29:40right you guys still remember what songs
0:29:45come from what albums i don't know why
0:29:47I've been looking on the wikipedia page
0:29:49i actually bought physical kind of kelly
0:29:51cds and they came and they are but
0:29:53they're just jumbled into a random
0:29:55shuffle and I told her I never even
0:29:56opened because i had the songs before
0:29:58that that's the thing about like I i
0:30:02crush everything you do it anytime i'm
0:30:04introduced to a new subculture new
0:30:05artist i assume that the song
0:30:06sure about giant squids and then usually
0:30:09I'm disappointed but it's all these
0:30:13songs that I've heard people say that
0:30:15about Jonathan Coulton is you can tell
0:30:17how experienced the listener is by
0:30:19whether they laugh or whether they're
0:30:20sad because the songs i'll start out
0:30:22with jokes i mean there are definite
0:30:24jokes here but as you get deeper into
0:30:26the sentiment of the song there's real
0:30:29profound sadness at the core of a lot of
0:30:32them yet or like or ironic poking at
0:30:35your own sadness again big bad world one
0:30:36you know where it's it's it's that we
0:30:39should get this when we get to more
0:30:40general comments about John Caldwell
0:30:42saver
0:30:42okay well if we're gonna have we're
0:30:46gonna get to those that i will move us
0:30:48along at a slightly more rapid clip Greg
0:30:51your second song my my second is going
0:30:53to be Skullcrusher mountain and i know
0:30:55its high concept and I know there's a
0:30:56lot of jokes in there but i just-i i
0:30:58adore the pony verse this have money at
0:31:03monkey monster to please you
0:31:10like it what's with
0:31:13all screaming you like my be like me
0:31:20so much any I
0:31:22is too
0:31:24he's isn't
0:31:25No
0:31:27honey
0:31:34and it just specifically one line or he
0:31:37says what's with all the screaming that
0:31:40that reaction is so perfect and so I
0:31:44mean again it's following the same
0:31:45template as future soon and code monkey
0:31:48is your sad little man wants the girl
0:31:51but the the setting of the song and then
0:31:54of course when you're in love with
0:31:57somebody and they don't reciprocate
0:31:58you're going to build them a half pony
0:32:00half monkey monster
0:32:02I mean that just makes sense and then
0:32:05when wench the she has the normal
0:32:08reaction the deed
0:32:10what's with all the screaming I don't
0:32:12understand why you would react that way
0:32:14I always and maybe this is my own lack
0:32:17of imagination but I always listen to
0:32:19school crusher mountain is being the
0:32:21future realized by the title character
0:32:24in the future for the best for the
0:32:26future soon hopefully this this is what
0:32:27he has done
0:32:29I think it's more gothic less
0:32:30science-fictiony that's fair i was
0:32:32thinking i was like the James Bond
0:32:34villain in the volcano lair
0:32:36yeah I don't think yes this is another
0:32:38song we're like the song doesn't come
0:32:39out and say hey I'm dr. evil i'm in my
0:32:41volcano lair but just straightforwardly
0:32:43this is even less obscured then i crush
0:32:45everything we're remember if you listen
0:32:47to anything lyrics as alright well this
0:32:49is obviously some kind of super villain
0:32:50and here's what the supervillain wants
0:32:51and he behaves in the way the
0:32:53supervillain does who is acclimated to
0:32:54being a supervillain surrounded by yes
0:32:56men who and doesn't understand the way
0:32:59you operate in polite society of you
0:33:01notice that genuinely surprised and that
0:33:02turns the turns of phrase or anything
0:33:04like maybe I used too many monkeys like
0:33:05it's just an ingredient uses in his
0:33:07normal it isn't it enough that Hebrew
0:33:09and a pony making a gift that's it's the
0:33:12thought that counts as far as that he
0:33:13will he will mix in sentiments from
0:33:15adult relationships again from his life
0:33:17I've imagined this time we kill me kill
0:33:19you to be civil like that I've been
0:33:21patient I've been gracious it's a line
0:33:23right out of you know typical you know
0:33:24cutting to adulthood relationships and
0:33:26marriage or whatever just only was in at
0:33:28that time just mixed in you know like
0:33:30that he has is having the same squabble
0:33:32the women the woman is abject terror but
0:33:33he thinks he's in a domestic you
0:33:35well that's did in that verse splits it
0:33:37exactly in half reading from the lyrics
0:33:39you know it isn't easy living here on
0:33:41skull crusher mountain maybe you could
0:33:42cut me just a little slack
0:33:44would it kill you to be civil I've been
0:33:45patient I've been gracious and then
0:33:47and this mountain is covered with Wolves
0:33:49to hear them howling my hungry children
0:33:51get switches right back into and that
0:33:54that's the way I spoke to my game yeah
0:33:55right i like how he tries to calm her
0:33:59down by saying listen the voices inside
0:34:01my head that control me tell me I
0:34:03shouldn't kill you yet
0:34:04yeah that's love is what you know when I
0:34:07was speaking about the recorded version
0:34:09of that song I never heard that yet and
0:34:11of course live you hear that yet because
0:34:12you know he's singing and he can
0:34:14enunciated i think i like to better
0:34:15without that yet saying the voice in my
0:34:18head said I shouldn't kill you as if
0:34:19that's reassuring like the fact that
0:34:20you're listening to the voices in your
0:34:21head that they're advising on who you
0:34:23should or shouldn't kill is disturbing
0:34:25enough that you don't need to yet i
0:34:26think we get your right is very subtle
0:34:28in the record so what side it's a
0:34:30falsetto the note that rises at the end
0:34:32right
0:34:33yep that John would you perform their
0:34:35fruits that is not yeah my duty as a job
0:34:40audience Scott Scott share with us your
0:34:44second song i am going to pick some a
0:34:47fairly straightforward song that perhaps
0:34:49many people would not pick but i am an
0:34:52odd fellow so i'm going to pick the
0:34:55presidents Washington came first news
0:35:00John and skips out with friends
0:35:04Jefferson me to Louisiana
0:35:09Madison chicken British in hand changing
0:35:12role
0:35:14they could
0:35:16Quincy and the very straightforward song
0:35:18wow it is he just sings about the
0:35:21president's a little fact about them i
0:35:23enjoy a couple things about this song a
0:35:26I like history and songs about history
0:35:28so there you go
0:35:29I'm a junkie I enjoy the fact that he
0:35:32uses a toy instruments in it
0:35:36yes that amuses me greatly and I like
0:35:39the fact that so it was written in 2005
0:35:41so he gets to the end and of course
0:35:43George W Bush is the president then he
0:35:46wasn't there i should say might get my
0:35:48texts correct and so he's talking about
0:35:50george w bush and he says he goes
0:35:52through you know the countries in a bad
0:35:56position and nobody knows what's
0:35:57happening and I don't like to make
0:35:59political statements and then there are
0:36:00a couple of beats there so he just
0:36:01doesn't say anything and then it goes
0:36:05back to the the verse and chorus i
0:36:08should say so it just amuses me greatly
0:36:10it's a very straightforward song not
0:36:12that deep or layered but sometimes you
0:36:15just want a song that lists all the
0:36:17president's give you a fact about them
0:36:19after after codemonkey might buy made a
0:36:21Colton playlist for my kids and they
0:36:24really enjoyed the president's but then
0:36:26I started asking questions particularly
0:36:27about the Clinton cigar line we gave an
0:36:32internal cigar right yeah and I left
0:36:34first of May off that list as well and i
0:36:38like that the the fact that he chooses
0:36:40to say about some of the president's
0:36:44like you know grover cleveland serve
0:36:45another term so there you go that's all
0:36:47good and at this is that we write some
0:36:50of the descriptions are you know fairly
0:36:52accurate and it's hard to get a full
0:36:54history of a president a single lyric
0:36:56you know but saying Jefferson made the
0:36:58Louisiana Purchase is good and then you
0:37:00get like Nixon was a filthy dirty liar
0:37:01you take this is also fairly adequate
0:37:03description it I i do like the
0:37:05juxtaposition of the or I think my my
0:37:07favorite lyric I do like that that pause
0:37:10that you reference got but Lincoln save
0:37:13the Union that he died i like sex is
0:37:15like that that's the history of lincoln
0:37:17as you say the Union and they're dead
0:37:20i laughs I laughs at Lincoln said that
0:37:23every time and that
0:37:24suit suit laughs well my my second
0:37:29selection does come from artificial
0:37:31heart and I think it's okay if we if we
0:37:32take a parallel track here because I i
0:37:34think my inference here is the greg koss
0:37:37is not necessarily as a narrative
0:37:41artificial heart as you might be the
0:37:42rest of the cold and cannon I'm not
0:37:43putting your words your mouth so you
0:37:44will have a chance to prove me wrong I'm
0:37:46disagree you know it i'm disappointed in
0:37:48myself that I don't like it more I don't
0:37:50want to box him in as an artist and I
0:37:52realize he's he's reaching here he's
0:37:54extending but unlike some of the
0:37:55experimental stuff like bacteria I can't
0:37:58stand but I am disappointed that i don't
0:38:00like it because I know what he's trying
0:38:02to do and I don't want him to keep doing
0:38:04the same thing for the next 20 years but
0:38:06I it just it's not the same for me
0:38:13should give it a chance because I kind
0:38:14of felt the same way when I first got
0:38:16the album but it is totally like some of
0:38:18them are it's kinda like thing week
0:38:19where some of them are just forgettable
0:38:21and you're like okay that didn't work
0:38:22but other ones are real growers as they
0:38:24call them and they have really easy up
0:38:26several these could have made my top
0:38:28three lies adjusted there's so much back
0:38:30catalogue history we move the other
0:38:32songs that none of these have been in my
0:38:34in my heart long enough to crack the top
0:38:35three for you so just for the
0:38:38uninitiated uninitiated artificial heart
0:38:41is Jonathan Colton's first full band
0:38:44down produced by John Flansburg they
0:38:47might be giants and it's you know it's
0:38:49every other song that he had released
0:38:51essentially had been done by him at home
0:38:54generally with his acoustic guitar and
0:38:56electronic drums in whatever keyboards
0:38:59he could finagle and so this is you know
0:39:01full band playing with him and so the
0:39:03first of my 22 artificial hearts
0:39:06elections is alone at home i am glad
0:39:11shopping here I will kill you first
0:39:23I won't
0:39:27shopping
0:39:39[Music]
0:39:42which is another one where I think it's
0:39:44it gets extra credit for being great to
0:39:48me in both the lyrical sense and in the
0:39:50you know just the the music itself I
0:39:53think is excellently arranged but I her
0:39:57loaded home live when Colton was opening
0:40:01for they might be giants at the stone
0:40:03pony in New Jersey and then you know
0:40:07that because the the album only launched
0:40:09two days later them and I don't know if
0:40:12that added to my affection for the song
0:40:14because hearing it unveiling live to me
0:40:16for the first time was exciting but this
0:40:18song is a song is very that the singer
0:40:23is very angry and hateful toward his
0:40:24wife or significant other in my view and
0:40:29you know first easy the first verse
0:40:30you know it's kind of gig already and as
0:40:32we said you know it's it's another one
0:40:34where it kind of keeps building things
0:40:36you know where I'm going to sit here on
0:40:38this chair while you're shopping and
0:40:39I'll watch your person I'll take care of
0:40:41it while you do your thing and it's fine
0:40:43because i'm alone at home and I you know
0:40:45much of the lyrics of the song i think
0:40:48are straightforward i feel like the
0:40:49chorus is open to interpretation what he
0:40:51exactly means my saying he's alone at
0:40:53home i think is up for debate but I
0:40:55don't know that as that song builds and
0:40:58he says he'll make room for your stuff
0:40:59when you buy stuff the canvas or and
0:41:02that he'll pretend to be nice to your
0:41:04parents when you visit them you know
0:41:05it's he clearly has fallen out of love
0:41:08and I i think that whole thing I think
0:41:11it's a hilarious thing to write a song
0:41:13about at least in the way that he did
0:41:14and the cryptic chorus keeps me coming
0:41:17back and i really like the the the the
0:41:21way he sings the chorus very energetic
0:41:24and then and catchy i think yes I think
0:41:27he has nice access again as a by this
0:41:30time Mary person nice access to the
0:41:32kinds of small things that can magnify
0:41:35in a marriage to get on your nerves and
0:41:36the you know he has a limited number
0:41:38words in these verses so he's got the
0:41:40chosen very carefully and this is what I
0:41:41think makes him a brilliant as a linear
0:41:44system connecting with people like me
0:41:47particulars were that bit where he says
0:41:48we can talk about plans for your
0:41:51cousin's birthday if you haven't been
0:41:52married married no sense
0:41:54how is that how
0:41:55was that you know something that you're
0:41:56bitter or angry about but sometimes like
0:41:59you just you know your your wife will be
0:42:01way more interested in talking about
0:42:02plans for cousins birthday then you are
0:42:04and the fact that she's interviewed want
0:42:06to talk about it will be annoying to you
0:42:07and that's something that you you know
0:42:10you wouldn't have had access to if you
0:42:13weren't in that situation yourself and
0:42:15couldn't relate to it that that's good
0:42:17lyric ready
0:42:17I think it's a mystery John that you
0:42:19said sometimes your wife is more
0:42:21interested in your mind is always were
0:42:24just talking about those kind of terms
0:42:28of the most compelling lyric that you
0:42:29know and John you made the point a
0:42:31couple times that it feels like it's
0:42:32coming from his real-world experience is
0:42:34the entirety of the bridge
0:42:36you know I don't want you to make it up
0:42:37to me I just wanted everyone to see the
0:42:39way we are over this way can we just not
0:42:41make this a thing all of which feels
0:42:43like pulled from maybe I I mean not
0:42:45every conversation I've had with my wife
0:42:47but yeah it was magnified like he's
0:42:50actually has access to those feelings
0:42:52he's not actually in that situation but
0:42:53he can take that and say I know that
0:42:55exists now map it onto this character in
0:42:57this song because it's coming from a
0:42:58real place it's not not autobiographical
0:43:00he's doing a great songwriters do you
0:43:02don't have to live through this horrible
0:43:03experiences you just have to understand
0:43:05how they could come to be and so now I i
0:43:07can write something that's true about
0:43:09people who are in this situation
0:43:10well let's do a the third and final
0:43:12round before we get to our broader
0:43:14Colton discussion
0:43:15Jon you're up again yeah it's a tough
0:43:17choice because again just limited to
0:43:19three is killing me and i'm already
0:43:20sneeze making it mentions of other ones
0:43:22but i'm going to pick this one because
0:43:23it's the least like the other ones it's
0:43:25a very simple song that i really started
0:43:28to like the first time I heard him live
0:43:29and he played it I guess I figured you
0:43:32know he likes this song so much he
0:43:33decides to pull out live and it's fairly
0:43:35obscure maybe I should give it another
0:43:37listen and and I didn't have definitely
0:43:39grown me it's I'm your moon
0:43:41invented reason that's why it stings
0:43:48they don't think you mad
0:43:51because you don't have to keep telling
0:43:58you I don't care
0:44:02one
0:44:07[Music]
0:44:09which is a very straightforward not
0:44:14funny at all song that doesn't have to
0:44:16be about anything other than what it
0:44:17seems to be about which is like a
0:44:18relationship with the moon analogy but
0:44:21is actually about Pluto and its moon
0:44:23that is almost the same size as Pluto
0:44:25and that little extra geeky twist makes
0:44:29its i like i like how it's nice and
0:44:32calming and it's fun to listen to
0:44:34but knowing that it's also about Pluto
0:44:36and its moon you at it gives it that
0:44:38extra twist that that again tickles me
0:44:41while I listen to it and i can i can if
0:44:43i could appreciate strap even if it
0:44:44wasn't about Pluto but that extra bit
0:44:45puts it over the top
0:44:46I think that's a great choice that would
0:44:48have been my fourth choice i might might
0:44:51my third choices along the same lines
0:44:54it's very straightforward and it's sweet
0:44:56is you ruined everything
0:44:58I was fine the pull myself together
0:45:05just-in-time throw myself away one my
0:45:15perfect world was gone I and
0:45:21[Music]
0:45:23Francis way
0:45:26[Music]
0:45:28and my kids were little older when I
0:45:31first heard this song but I'd never
0:45:32found a song that expressed the kind of
0:45:37I was terrified of having children
0:45:39it was this giant that undoable decision
0:45:43and it apparently so far it's worked out
0:45:47but there's this notion of it I am
0:45:50irrevocably changing my life right now
0:45:52and I'm happy it happened I I dearly
0:45:56love my children but there's also a part
0:45:59of me that I sacrificed for that and
0:46:02sometimes I didn't miss it
0:46:05that's kind of the thing they don't tell
0:46:07you about parenthood like before you're
0:46:08becoming a parent people only one ever
0:46:10tell you oh you're gonna love it so much
0:46:11you can love your kids so much all which
0:46:13is true but no one will tell you like
0:46:15because I guess it makes them to see you
0:46:16seem like a bad person if you go up to
0:46:18someone and say listen and you have a
0:46:19kid let me tell you all the bad things
0:46:20about it and you ruined everything again
0:46:22must have been written by someone who
0:46:24has actually had kids and said ready
0:46:25tell you right there are so many great
0:46:27things about it and the heart of the
0:46:29song is sweet but part of you dies at
0:46:34the lyric that gets me every time is
0:46:36what he says I can't think of who I was
0:46:37before you ruined everything in the
0:46:39nicest way and that's the that's the
0:46:42thought that echoes to me the most often
0:46:44you know I i could I thought we had one
0:46:45kid I thought what the hell did i do
0:46:46before i had this kid we had to what the
0:46:49hell do I said 1-3 what the hell that I
0:46:51don't I said to and at neck that lyric I
0:46:53really speaks to me in a very poignant
0:46:55level
0:46:56have you guys ever like after kids were
0:46:58born you know six months nine months
0:47:00after you're born you ever find yourself
0:47:01like driving to work and staring at
0:47:03studio apartments as you went by doesn't
0:47:08have the medium that has the makings of
0:47:09a good Jonathan Coulton song i could get
0:47:12so much done
0:47:14yes I need a futon an internet
0:47:17connection that's the name of your album
0:47:20be telling edit a connection that's it
0:47:23that's the suites on
0:47:24I like that yeah all right Scott your
0:47:26third and final selection i am going to
0:47:29choose a song from artificial heart
0:47:32final selection nemec's run fast
0:47:42promise me
0:47:43me
0:47:46first of all your enemy
0:47:51friend to me
0:47:53that will be
0:47:56joy it's about a never see his midst of
0:48:02a pretty straightforward so I think
0:48:04about the idea that it is from the
0:48:09vantage point of the viewpoint of one
0:48:11person who is the Nemesis or at least
0:48:14suggesting to another person that they
0:48:15should be in embassies so that they will
0:48:17fulfill each other's lives basically
0:48:20because I wouldn't i won't seem as crazy
0:48:23you won't see him as crazy if we are
0:48:25competing with each other and trying to
0:48:27you know kill each other basically and i
0:48:30will constantly be following you lurking
0:48:32in the shadows trying to support you but
0:48:34it will all make sense because we're in
0:48:36embassies so that will we will complete
0:48:37each up so it's an interesting kind of
0:48:40strange song I think and I i enjoy
0:48:43collecting embassies myself so it speaks
0:48:45to me
0:48:46there can only be one bearded
0:48:48singer-songwriter on the Internet
0:48:51well this is this situation where
0:48:52someone has wants to be someone else's
0:48:54nemesis I and perhaps the other person
0:48:57doesn't know that that person really
0:48:58wants to be their nemesis so badly
0:49:00yes you're pretending you don't even
0:49:03know my name well played all part of an
0:49:05all-party am right nut
0:49:07it's another foil love song isn't it and
0:49:10it's a duet with John Roderick whose is
0:49:13whose great this was my introduction to
0:49:15him as a singer and it's very
0:49:17interesting mix of voice sounds that do
0:49:20it and that's actually interesting
0:49:23element of artificial heart is that
0:49:26there are is it three tracks for tracks
0:49:29where Jonathan Coulton is not the lead
0:49:30vocalist which is kind of unusual when
0:49:32you buy a an album from someone you
0:49:34think they're going to sing all the
0:49:35songs and never cease
0:49:37now i'm an arsonist the third version of
0:49:41stay up still alive
0:49:43yeah but he makes up for it work with
0:49:45nobody loves you like me where Jonathan
0:49:46Coulton at nine times so for my last
0:49:50song it like i said it does come from
0:49:52artificial heart night I far be it for
0:49:55me to casualty list of songs that didn't
0:49:57make the cut but they were very close
0:49:58like curl not about you blew sunny day
0:50:00today with your wife and good morning to
0:50:01sign but the song that i picked was it's
0:50:05it's I guess like Scott's caveat i'll
0:50:07say you know it's it is cut
0:50:09a very superficial song but i think it's
0:50:11so brilliantly crafted and unlike any
0:50:15song i had heard previously and yet so
0:50:17obvious that this kind of song should
0:50:19exist when you hear it and that is just
0:50:21sweet Rick Springfield neighborhood
0:50:24he's got back yet
0:50:28share the quad coming no share hey rama
0:50:37nam provide just explain
0:50:42it's very very simple very simple melody
0:50:55and really a relatively simple concept
0:50:58all although still with a little bit of
0:51:00ambiguity where the singer is the singer
0:51:03either claims to be or is in fact Rick
0:51:06Springfield and apparently in France or
0:51:09in some other french-speaking location
0:51:11reminding people about his greatness and
0:51:14assuring them he that he is indeed Rick
0:51:16Springfield but doing it all in French
0:51:18and then even questioning his own
0:51:20friends I guess it kind of goes back to
0:51:21one thing that I like this you know
0:51:22where he's correcting himself or he's
0:51:24trying to verify that he was pronouncing
0:51:26the French words or phrases the French
0:51:27words correctly in song and i like that
0:51:29i like when singers second-guess
0:51:31themselves in within a song and I don't
0:51:34know something about that song i can't
0:51:36help but rock out to it in the car no
0:51:37matter who's looking in the windows and
0:51:40it's i don't know i think it's great
0:51:42yeah that the nice thing about just
0:51:44rework Springfield for me is that I'd
0:51:46the language i took in high school was
0:51:47french so i could actually more or less
0:51:49understand the lyrics the first time I
0:51:51heard the song and that's the case where
0:51:52I was training very hard to understand
0:51:54it because when I when I saw this I saw
0:51:56him he was auditioning the artificial
0:51:58heart songs in Boston he came up and did
0:52:00a small show with the band was the first
0:52:02time I'd seem to the band was way before
0:52:04the element come out and one of his
0:52:06instructions like hey here's an
0:52:07excellent off the new album was not
0:52:08released yet and it's all in French it's
0:52:10like okay let me get out my high school
0:52:12French listening years and that made me
0:52:14listen listen to the words straight and
0:52:16it's it is very kind of high school
0:52:18French structured you don't it's not
0:52:20sophisticated french i think he was
0:52:21using his high school French to right
0:52:23thing and so that that was interesting
0:52:25and also now when he doesn't like he has
0:52:27a middle section where he does a little
0:52:29bit of Jessie's Girl which blends nicely
0:52:31into the song very cool so let's let's
0:52:34go a little bit broader in the time
0:52:36we've been permitted for me i would say
0:52:38the jonathan coulton is very much in
0:52:39keeping with other artists listen to you
0:52:42know my other favorite bands are bands
0:52:44like they might be giants and Al
0:52:46Yankovic and I don't know Moxie frutos
0:52:48or barenaked ladies all of which I think
0:52:50have that other people might define
0:52:53their commonality differently for me but
0:52:54what is what i like about it is
0:52:56but they all appear to take what they do
0:53:00take their craft very seriously but not
0:53:02take themselves very seriously and then
0:53:04let that show in in the kind of music
0:53:06they create which I really appreciate
0:53:07whatever reason he speaks to me so i
0:53:09would say that he's you know old news is
0:53:11one of that genre and in keeping from me
0:53:15but my I throw the equation everyone did
0:53:17you feel that this is he typically the
0:53:19kind of music you listen to
0:53:20i would say no for me he is up i had a
0:53:24little bit of they might be giants
0:53:25mostly for the kids
0:53:26I was never really particularly into
0:53:27them except for the few low you know
0:53:30breakthroughs like you know a triangle
0:53:32man or whatever that was on MTV when I
0:53:33was a kid but I was no never really into
0:53:36that weird out i had very few weird al
0:53:39songs you know thrown into my collection
0:53:41but never bought any of his albums was
0:53:43never into it and I think the reason he
0:53:46broke through for me is no it's kind of
0:53:50the same way
0:53:51why nerds get obsessed with other things
0:53:54made by nerds like you know firefly or
0:53:56other series on television that are you
0:54:00know the JJ Abrams stop using that are
0:54:01clearly made by nerds who we relate to
0:54:03because with music as for the bands that
0:54:06I like and I like totally generic
0:54:07run-of-the-mill bands anyone my age like
0:54:09oh you like Bruce Springsteen you to REM
0:54:11and radiohead well that's novel right so
0:54:13you know everyone likes their
0:54:14middle-of-the-road bands but you have
0:54:16the sneaking suspicion that the people
0:54:17these famous people who make this music
0:54:19that you love and I really do love those
0:54:20bands as cliche as they are for me to
0:54:22like them you have the suspicion that if
0:54:24you were to hang out with them you would
0:54:25have nothing in common because they're
0:54:27not like they're not your people I there
0:54:30they're not into the things you're into
0:54:31they wouldn't they wouldn't understand
0:54:33your humor they wouldn't have the same
0:54:35cynical view of the world they're just
0:54:37they're just different and you love the
0:54:38music they make
0:54:39partially because it's different they
0:54:40can talk about things that you don't
0:54:42experience but when Jonathan Coulton
0:54:43came along he was here love joy here is
0:54:46this person to you felt like there's no
0:54:49way that this person could know this
0:54:51stuff about my secret heart if he didn't
0:54:54also experienced some of these things
0:54:56and so I think he appeals because his
0:54:59two major touch points are obscure
0:55:01references and sadness
0:55:02yeah well it's not just that like it's
0:55:04not that's the thing that's I think
0:55:05about him I think of another artist came
0:55:06out and they did these similar songs so
0:55:08these every one of these songs could
0:55:09take up
0:55:10bad turn for example you I you ruined
0:55:12everything that song would not be a good
0:55:14song it was like a song like oh these
0:55:17kids they ruin everything that's not
0:55:18what the song is about at its heart it's
0:55:19it's sweet you know what i mean and so
0:55:22many on something on a Razors Edge of
0:55:24being crappy versions of themselves and
0:55:27he never goes there and so all these
0:55:29songs like finally yes this person he
0:55:32under you know he seems to understand me
0:55:35and I felt like I hang out with this
0:55:36person then we would have something to
0:55:38talk about it it's it's almost 11 of us
0:55:40broke through like a nerd was made who
0:55:42actually have musical talent who
0:55:44understood lyrics pop music you know
0:55:47hooks and enough music manship to to get
0:55:50through and it's like yeah one of ours
0:55:51made it in the same way that there's
0:55:52much more of those making movies and
0:55:54television out in the music around there
0:55:56so so few that might be giants probably
0:55:58qualifies but they never quite broke
0:56:00through to me but around the Colton's
0:56:01lyrics and music where such a connection
0:56:04with like what's deep down inside of me
0:56:06that I just immediately latched on it
0:56:09you know it's that that last point for
0:56:10me i think is is really good i like I've
0:56:13said repeatedly now i'm a big fan of
0:56:15weird al's but you know one of his i
0:56:17think one of his highest charting songs
0:56:19of all time was white and nerdy apparent
0:56:21song ridin by chamillionaire which I
0:56:23would imagine most people who like weird
0:56:25i had never heard of before he parried
0:56:27it but it you know he's constantly made
0:56:31reference to with white nerdy it was a
0:56:33song i was doing research for my whole
0:56:35life but he's not the same kind of nerd
0:56:36that I think you're referring to you and
0:56:39you know he's making relatively try
0:56:41jokes about you know Star Trek and
0:56:44pocket protectors and and stuff they're
0:56:46editing Wikipedia there's not a core of
0:56:48emotion that is in colton songs i think
0:56:52that's exactly right i think that's
0:56:53what's that I think that's the
0:56:54difference is that he doesn't you know
0:56:55he knows about it but he doesn't feel
0:56:57connected to it but it i mean where I
0:56:59like we're down but we're doubt tells
0:57:00jokes Colton has the lyrics and the the
0:57:04humor reflect the core of emotion and
0:57:06without that core of emotion you're not
0:57:08going to have the same kind of wordplay
0:57:10the same kind of twists the same kind of
0:57:12little you know knife under the rib to
0:57:15the to the lyrics that you do when
0:57:17you're just making javascript jokes it's
0:57:19kind of like is like an SAS like if he
0:57:21was just thinking that no musical talent
0:57:23however and didn't write songs he could
0:57:24be a very clever effort SAS for like you
0:57:26know suck com or something if we want to
0:57:28go back in time to you know or the onion
0:57:30or something like that right and this is
0:57:31gonna sound terrible and I was kind of
0:57:33getting it this and my other analogies
0:57:35but I figure my soldiers bring it out in
0:57:36sound terrible because why not because
0:57:37these people aren't gonna find me and
0:57:39yell at me you it's it's the feeling you
0:57:42have as a disaffected nerdy youth that
0:57:44it's not fair that you're smarter than
0:57:48everyone else but nobody likes you
0:57:50anyway right like that being smart is
0:57:52not worth anything and you know I've
0:57:55never met any famous musicians but you
0:57:56get the feeling that you know Jonathan
0:57:57Coulton is smarter than bono Jonathan
0:57:59culture and Colton is smarter than Bruce
0:58:01Springsteen right eye and its and I
0:58:03think it shows in his writing because
0:58:05his writing is smarter is it better
0:58:08writing doesn't make for better music is
0:58:09jonathan coulton better than Bruce
0:58:10Springsteen I don't think that's
0:58:11necessarily the case but it speaks to me
0:58:14in a way that like that that that here's
0:58:16a guy who's using his brain in the same
0:58:19way that I felt like I would use my
0:58:20brain if I had any time whatsoever for
0:58:22writing music or lyrics like yes that me
0:58:25that's what I'm you know it's just it's
0:58:27such an incredible connection and that
0:58:29strange to me because i think does that
0:58:31prevent him from ever connecting with
0:58:33like the rest of the world the normals
0:58:34you know because he everything he writes
0:58:37is so unashamedly it's not just like pop
0:58:39culture references and stuff it's like
0:58:41insight and cynicism and and sentiment
0:58:45all mixed together in the same soup in
0:58:47the same way that it is inside you know
0:58:49their brains how many mainstream pop
0:58:51songs have actually sent required that
0:58:53you go look something up it or taught
0:58:56you anything because because because
0:58:57love to learn new things so he will
0:58:59understand medley make parts of the song
0:59:01educational but its side
0:59:03I when I read you know the entire
0:59:04wikipedia entry for serious Johnson
0:59:06because i had no idea who he is because
0:59:08i live on the west coast or the you know
0:59:11he put the formula for when I got a
0:59:14wrong no but that's ok it's the Julia
0:59:16set but but he had the formula for a
0:59:18fractal in a song
0:59:20well that's what I was going to put that
0:59:21would have been another on my list of
0:59:23like top 10 or whatever because I so
0:59:25he's got a song about fractals so what
0:59:26like that so you know it's cute and tell
0:59:28some history and a little bit
0:59:29educational but that the brilliant thing
0:59:32about him is that he's not going to
0:59:33settle for that i'm not going to write a
0:59:34cute little song about fractals that's a
0:59:35little bit educational isn't it
0:59:37and find the song about fractals and I
0:59:38curse he has decided he's thought about
0:59:40it and decided there's something
0:59:42significant about fractals and he puts
0:59:44it in the course change the world in a
0:59:46tiny way they did that little thing
0:59:48change the world not in a big way but
0:59:50some smart person use their brain and
0:59:52change the world in a tiny tiny way
0:59:54through and I enjoyed that song because
0:59:56i went to see Mandelbrot to give a
0:59:59lecture once
0:59:59lecture once
1:00:00when I was in college and I had no idea
1:00:01what he's talking about about he
1:00:03introduced himself and that was at the
1:00:05after that I had no idea what he's
1:00:07talking about but it was great to see
1:00:08because he had so much passion and I
1:00:10think that Jonathan Coulton also has a
1:00:12lot of passionate about his his
1:00:14craftsmanship and I what he's doing and
1:00:18that shows through and i also like as
1:00:20you know sometimes creative person
1:00:23myself hopefully I the the idea of the
1:00:27the thing a week really spoke to me
1:00:29about how he forced himself every week
1:00:31to write a new song and whether it was
1:00:33good or bad he would do it and release
1:00:36it and that is something that I aspire
1:00:38to myself I don't actually do it but I
1:00:41think about maybe getting something like
1:00:44that but that's another that's
1:00:46definitely a nerd thing to do like nerds
1:00:48like I'm gonna lose weight so what I'm
1:00:49gonna do is only eat you know this
1:00:51amount of food and i'm going to blog the
1:00:52entire experience and recorded and I'm
1:00:54going to keep a journal and like the
1:00:55scientific approach the obsessive
1:00:56scientific approach to everything so he
1:00:58said I want to be a recording artist I
1:00:59do i do this i will do this you know
1:01:00very structured and very you know like
1:01:03you know he's keeping a notebook and
1:01:05keeping track it you know that's that's
1:01:07just a nerdy way to go about becoming a
1:01:08nerdy musician and so I i think i know
1:01:12the answer but I don't know the that
1:01:14greg and scott way in which you say that
1:01:15that cold is in keeping with the kind of
1:01:17music you generally listen to i think
1:01:19the commonality for me is that I'm a
1:01:22lyrics first guy and so if the lyrics
1:01:24surprise me or I find them elegant I
1:01:27don't care all that much with the music
1:01:29is like i enjoy particular genres of
1:01:31music more than others but if if if
1:01:35they're good lyrics it's a good song and
1:01:38that that goes across pretty much every
1:01:40band i listen to i can't think of a band
1:01:42that i listen to that's just kind of
1:01:43dumb rhythm driven fun i'm great at a
1:01:48party
1:01:49let me tell you because what John
1:01:50listens to what I mean I i tend to
1:01:53eventually reject the songs that don't
1:01:54have anything interesting in them
1:01:56lyrically but I definitely I'm music
1:01:58first kind of personal some jonathan
1:01:59coulton as long as I i don't i can't
1:02:01really i'm not a music person so I can
1:02:02gauge how good of a musician he is
1:02:04but I I feel like his some of his songs
1:02:06work musically really well and if you
1:02:08took the lyrics away entirely you've got
1:02:11a solid pop song they're you know like
1:02:13dad that's Ted absolutely true but the
1:02:15reason he's he's at the top of the list
1:02:17is because of his lyrical abilities
1:02:19yes it is obviously everybody like I
1:02:21think I think he gets under I think he
1:02:22gets under appreciated as as a musician
1:02:24at least as far as I'm concerned because
1:02:26I you know I don't know if he could make
1:02:28it traditionally because his brain would
1:02:30prevent him from writing a traditional
1:02:31song but I i also feel like I'm much
1:02:34more qualified to judge lyrics and I am
1:02:36to judge music along the same lines
1:02:37right but I mean it's easy to tell what
1:02:40you like I like a lot of I mean open it
1:02:42Radiohead the flaming lips are very
1:02:44strange musically and I know what I like
1:02:47I just don't know if that's like good
1:02:49music bad music that's just you know
1:02:50what friends are actually closed there
1:02:52is that they're they're somewhat nerdy
1:02:55to a little bit or maybe they're just
1:02:57crazy it's very difficult to tell
1:02:59sometimes who I well he fits in very
1:03:05nicely with what i listen to generally
1:03:07although i listen to a very strange mix
1:03:09of things but certainly I enjoy clever
1:03:12kind of happy songs that when you listen
1:03:16to the lyrics you realize this is not a
1:03:18happy song at all but it's so it sounds
1:03:21so happy but this person is so sad
1:03:24actually you know it's come to think of
1:03:26it there is one John music they listen
1:03:28to the jonathan coulton does fit into
1:03:29and a large amount of music that was two
1:03:32when i'm working doesn't have any lyrics
1:03:34and it's video game music whether 8-bit
1:03:37or orchestral or versions of it or
1:03:39remixes a videogame music and what kind
1:03:42of person listens to video game music
1:03:43someone who's played a lot of video
1:03:44games so what kind of person has played
1:03:46a lot of video games someone who is you
1:03:47know is a disaffected night you know so
1:03:48all can expect the Colton but i dont
1:03:50even list that like what kind of music
1:03:52you like him and people ask what kind of
1:03:53bands i don't list like you know that
1:03:56the art of the artists that make a
1:03:57shooters artist to make music for video
1:04:00game soundtracks but that that is if you
1:04:03look at like most recently played and
1:04:05like my itunes collection you'll be like
1:04:07wow fifty percent of music you listen to
1:04:09his video game soundtracks and jonathan
1:04:10coulton
1:04:11what's what's amazing to me is how house
1:04:16quickly and successfully he's ended up
1:04:18becoming one of the dominant artists i
1:04:20listened to in itunes because i was
1:04:21looking at the playlist numbers and
1:04:24things and you know its most of the
1:04:26artists that i still listen to today
1:04:27I've listened to for you know since my
1:04:29childhood and he came around in the for
1:04:33me and I guess in the early mid 2000s
1:04:35and he's he's as prominent Miley you
1:04:38know in every playlist that i generate
1:04:40as something like they might be giants
1:04:42and I think that's very impressive
1:04:44because this there aren't I don't know
1:04:46if it's diminishing returns or what but
1:04:48it doesn't feel like today there are as
1:04:49many artists coming up who are in that
1:04:51sort of nerdy geeky zone who are
1:04:54interested you are interested in singing
1:04:55smartmusic and I'm glad that he's there
1:04:59to it it's hard to believe he's been
1:05:01releasing songs for almost 10 years
1:05:02right
1:05:03he's very productive like the number it
1:05:05seems like the number of since he didn't
1:05:07stick to the album every three or four
1:05:08years traditional band format like he
1:05:10just kept spewing out songs and that
1:05:12like that a part of the reason they come
1:05:14up so often in my little you know rated
1:05:16three-plus random playlist i listen to
1:05:18is because there's just so many of them
1:05:19and when I look at my itunes usage
1:05:21history it you know it's video game
1:05:23music jonathan coulton and like the next
1:05:25highest traditional band i was surprised
1:05:27but as myself because I had to list them
1:05:28in terms of my favorites i wouldn't have
1:05:30listed this right next to that I was REM
1:05:32which is like the proto nerd band right
1:05:34where they were they were nerdy kind of
1:05:36before we really knew what nerds were
1:05:38about and their music was kind of nerdy
1:05:40before energy music was popular that
1:05:42that's like the number three after video
1:05:44games and John they called and also
1:05:46because i have been alive every album
1:05:47that made they have a big catalog to
1:05:49their you know so tends to just come up
1:05:50a lot art school nerds
1:05:52yeah there's all different all different
1:05:54varieties of nerds are finally jonathan
1:05:56coulton found the exact exact species
1:05:58that I've longed to minus the musical
1:06:01talent portion i will i will say that
1:06:03none of the songs that people picked out
1:06:05tonight you know shock to me whatever
1:06:06like how did you pick that clunker
1:06:08because i don't think we hurt anyone but
1:06:09the thing that surprises me the the
1:06:11thing that'll be left ruminating on is
1:06:13John Syracuse's saying you know that
1:06:15he's he's not into something like they
1:06:17might be giants which I think has just
1:06:19tremendous audience and stylistic
1:06:21overlap but likes cold so now i don't
1:06:23know i was thinking how can i how can we
1:06:25wrap up
1:06:25what happened we say you know so if you
1:06:28know if you like this then you like this
1:06:29that what I can't really say that
1:06:31basically said now I feel like it's
1:06:32really you know if you like the
1:06:34incomparable there's a decent chance
1:06:36that you like Jonathan Coulton music but
1:06:38i can't go to a specific artist if if
1:06:40John doesn't consider himself with
1:06:41aliens I've tried to introduce people to
1:06:43jonathan coulton and it almost never
1:06:45takes like I think you have to if you
1:06:48haven't found to contain yourself by now
1:06:50it's may not be may not be for you right
1:06:52now because i'll show it to people and
1:06:54I'll just I'll just be amazed that like
1:06:56art your your kind of smart nerdy to
1:06:59like how can you not appreciate that
1:07:00some people just aren't interested in
1:07:02music because it's too boring for them
1:07:04and they can't get past that or they're
1:07:06you know it's too tiring to listen to
1:07:08the lyrics or it takes
1:07:09they just you know it bounces off but i
1:07:11find that kind of said that like I don't
1:07:13want him to be a cultivated I think he
1:07:15deserves even more success than he has
1:07:17no see I think he's I think he's passed
1:07:19cultus well do you think so but we're
1:07:21less because we're all on the cult-like
1:07:23try you know try picking a person
1:07:24experiencing a have you heard round the
1:07:26cold and the answer is obviously know
1:07:27and be hey travels into the song what do
1:07:29you think they gonna be like no it's not
1:07:31you know it unless they're like portal
1:07:34players right well even even that like
1:07:36the people who are into video games i go
1:07:37that song was kind of cute but they
1:07:38don't ya
1:07:39don't you feel it I i think it's still a
1:07:42culty kind of thing because it as big as
1:07:44he is like I saw him into paradise a
1:07:45couple weeks ago and that that's a room
1:07:47like not even as big as my house he's
1:07:49not selling out stadiums right or even
1:07:52arenas are and are any big indoor venue
1:07:54just a little tiny clubs and you can get
1:07:56tickets you know up to a couple days
1:07:58before no big deal it's definitely still
1:07:59cold i think i will say that the thing
1:08:02that one thing that surprised me was
1:08:04just this week
1:08:05jonathan coulton tweeted a link to an
1:08:08interview he had done and in this intro
1:08:12in this piece that he links to where it
1:08:14made reference to his earning five
1:08:17hundred thousand dollars a year now from
1:08:19his music and i'm not saying he's like
1:08:20is a popular I mean that is a measure of
1:08:23success
1:08:23yeah now it's it it's fine like I'm he
1:08:26said that he said that an NPR interview
1:08:27when he was being interviewed on NPR
1:08:29like last year or so it was planet money
1:08:31and the MSM him he regretted that he had
1:08:34said anything about how much your inbred
1:08:36but like they got it out of him and he
1:08:39disappointed in an interview and so was
1:08:40I because they kept saying internet
1:08:41musician jonathan coulton this one hit
1:08:43wonder if Luke that well he got lucky
1:08:46and related big on the internet and this
1:08:47is not a sustained like the jonathan
1:08:49coulton business model and that whole
1:08:50thing that's like all the podcast we
1:08:52could do you know about making money
1:08:55online sexual property of stuff but
1:08:57financially I don't feel like bad for
1:08:59him that he's not successfully thing is
1:09:00just that like he's self-limiting
1:09:02through what he does that he's never
1:09:04going to have the broad appeal and
1:09:06abroad and I don't think like he
1:09:07deserves the broad appeal because it
1:09:09needs to be fabulously wealthy more than
1:09:11he is but just because like you know I
1:09:13guess the same reason you think it's
1:09:14unfair that people you think are so
1:09:16clever and and artistically like that
1:09:18artistic insight and cleverness and you
1:09:21know at such such a great package and
1:09:24just not appreciated by the vast
1:09:26majority of the population but the
1:09:27reason he's so deeply appreciated by a
1:09:29minority of the population is because he
1:09:31is specifically who he is the same thing
1:09:34that limits his broad appeal is what
1:09:36inspires the deep appeal
1:09:38maybe we wouldn't be doing a podcast on
1:09:40him if if he worked deluded enough to be
1:09:43hugely popular well that that's the
1:09:45thing is like is it because like it's
1:09:47impossible to appeal but that's that's
1:09:49the weird thing about his music and a
1:09:51couple other things as compared to a TV
1:09:53or movies because you can make
1:09:54television or movies that speaks
1:09:55directly to us nerds and we love it and
1:09:58we just think it's so awesome
1:09:59interesting and it's not dumb down at
1:10:00all and yet also has broad appeal also
1:10:03is critically acclaimed also like
1:10:05crosses over right
1:10:06I but with me but it's taking a long
1:10:09time to get there and enhance but like
1:10:11music is not very comic book movies
1:10:13weren't big releases 20 years ago that
1:10:15wouldn't be the example I would use but
1:10:16i would say like yeah well I
1:10:18specifically picked the Avengers because
1:10:20of you
1:10:21area i think i think the general culture
1:10:25is moving more in his direction but he's
1:10:27way out and yes and they could they
1:10:29could catch up to him but I've got that
1:10:32would be a great day for the general
1:10:33culture I think when you talk about
1:10:35somebody who's crossed over it would be
1:10:37like parchment who is of course closely
1:10:40related to call out i mean his college
1:10:42roommate y le yeah like you he was on
1:10:44those apple and that's how people know
1:10:45him and he is on the daily show but the
1:10:48daily show and the books have been very
1:10:50popular i mean i think that sound is
1:10:52nerds is popular for book means is much
1:10:54lower bar that commitment you know they
1:10:56sell a couple hundred thousand copies of
1:10:58a book but also popular for a musician
1:10:59is the same as popular for authors and I
1:11:02mean you have Stephen King and you have
1:11:04REM but you know Justin Justin Bieber is
1:11:06a popular lady gaga is popular but this
1:11:10in so it's stephen king but that's not
1:11:11every author whose I guess making an
1:11:13impact on the culture but I see Jonathan
1:11:16Coulton so I love justin bieber's books
1:11:18but so i guess i guess my response to
1:11:21John would be that I think you're I
1:11:23think you're right that you can't say
1:11:24cold does not qualify as a a mainstream
1:11:27successful artist you know he you're
1:11:31right the most people don't know who he
1:11:32is you know my wife might pick out my
1:11:35wife who does not fit into you know our
1:11:36culture would not you know she might be
1:11:39able to pick out you know a dozen or
1:11:41maybe fewer Colton songs that really
1:11:43speak to her but she's shy but she's
1:11:46certainly not a fan but i think that the
1:11:48second point and the I think maybe even
1:11:51part of Greg's point is that it doesn't
1:11:53matter you know and that's wonderful you
1:11:55know the fact that he can be successful
1:11:56and make a an excellent living and
1:11:59entertain those who are willing and
1:12:01eager to be entertained by him
1:12:02regardless the fact that he's not huge I
1:12:04think its gravity should write a song
1:12:06about John at the person named like
1:12:08Jonathan Coulton like you know Thomas
1:12:10molten being born 400 years in the past
1:12:13and nobody knows about him because he
1:12:15has no way to make every I had no way to
1:12:17make a living there's no internet is no
1:12:18way that he can harness his obvious
1:12:20talents and and spread his his art to
1:12:24the people who would appreciate it and
1:12:25so we just didn't he works like a
1:12:26blacksmith and dies
1:12:28jonathan coulton has a long tail and I'm
1:12:31i will make this incomparable promise if
1:12:33jonathan coulton hears this and record
1:12:35that song John siracusa will record a
1:12:37cover of it i would actually do that I
1:12:41will probably do anything that Jonathan
1:12:43Coulton ever asked me that little bit of
1:12:47a man crush I i understand i share that
1:12:51may crush everything
1:12:53well I want to say thank you to
1:12:57everybody for putting up with me but be
1:12:59for a very interesting talk about
1:13:01Jonathan Coulton so thank you John Scott
1:13:03and Greg thank you thank you x
1:13:06Thank You legs sure and that's it
1:13:10I don't know how jason has these things
1:13:12hey guys i happen to have the man
1:13:14himself jonathan coulton right here with
1:13:17me and he has something that you'd like
1:13:18to say to you I heard what you were
1:13:20saying you know nothing of my work I
1:13:24mean how you got to record a podcast
1:13:26about anything is totally amazing how if
1:13:29only real life worked like this
1:13:37this was a triumph i'm making a note
1:13:40here you success it's hard to overstate
1:13:45my satisfaction
1:13:55[Music]
1:14:04thank you for doing this i really
1:14:05appreciate it you sure I'm flattered
1:14:10that you guys did it did a whole show
1:14:11about maybe it's very you know it's
1:14:14flattering creepy by I was gonna say
1:14:16it's you got for geeky people spending
1:14:19an hour talking about you
1:14:21I'm not sure whether that's something
1:14:23that maybe happens to every day on the
1:14:25internet I don't know I guess I it may I
1:14:29you know I don't hear about it most of
1:14:31the time I think but nobody's very very
1:14:34very kind of you
1:14:35very kind of you they said very nice
1:14:37things about you oh good i prefer if i
1:14:39responded would have asked was this is
1:14:40there is a flame flame episode because
1:14:43that's right i don't contribute to that
1:14:45it really it was what's wrong with
1:14:47jonathan coulton with where'd he go
1:14:49wrong this backlash it's starting the
1:14:52backlash
1:14:52well somebody's got to do it you know
1:14:54obviously I'm not insecure podcast
1:14:57nobody knows about
1:15:00i I just had this vision when they said
1:15:03well we're gonna record the jonathan
1:15:04coulton episode I said you know what
1:15:05would be really funny as if he appeared
1:15:07and said well as bad as if Woody Allen
1:15:10drag him over you people know nothing
1:15:12about what I do and I don't even know
1:15:15why you're here but no I think I think I
1:15:18guess is probably funniest I mean that
1:15:21because you can get kind of could go two
1:15:23ways you know you can either just like
1:15:24directly quote Marshall McLuhan from
1:15:28that movie in the hopes that people will
1:15:30get the reference or you could have a
1:15:32completely off the conversation but I
1:15:35think it's better to to actually do the
1:15:37the reference and Martin actually just
1:15:38ask me every blast in and say say those
1:15:42lines alright alright i can I i don't
1:15:45know i mean it's it's your podcast you
1:15:47tell know let's let's go let's give that
1:15:48a try
1:15:49why not alright let's give that a try
1:15:50and see if it works I mean you're
1:15:53Marshall McLuhan acting briefly I know
1:15:55mark it's not what he was most known for
1:16:00not not real actually sometimes I wonder
1:16:02if maybe he's more I was a comm major
1:16:05right I did whole classes about Marshall
1:16:08McLuhan but most people probably think
1:16:10movie maybe long terminated my the thing
1:16:14that is most remembered for us that that
1:16:16little camera out
1:16:17sad and me too when they look back on
1:16:20the history of the world and they see
1:16:21the st. John picoult use the game ended
1:16:23that Marshall McLuhan reference on that
1:16:25podcast right but that would be the
1:16:28other way to go i was going to think you
1:16:29know I don't know he was he wasn't he
1:16:31was singing a song and the video game
1:16:32didn't sing a song in a video game but
1:16:34it's not era it's also funny the guys on
1:16:37the podcast almost to a man said that
1:16:39they first heard about you from from
1:16:42baby got back
1:16:43no kidding and I thought wow I that and
1:16:46that's not true for me at all
1:16:47I i think it's a mighty my wife sent me
1:16:49an mp3 is of skull crusher mountain when
1:16:52it was posted and she thought that I
1:16:54would think it was funny but they all
1:16:56were there at the start
1:16:58well you got sculpture mountain is that
1:17:00that's very early
1:17:01that's but that's before that's before I
1:17:03didn't quit my job so I think you win
1:17:05the prize Wow whenever they were much
1:17:08hardcore i actually I bought your ipod
1:17:10artificial heart after i saw you open
1:17:12for they might be giants when you're in
1:17:14san francisco earlier this year
1:17:15hopefully last year and now I of course
1:17:17have dug back into the back catalogue
1:17:19oh good oh that's interesting thing i've
1:17:21got a stream jr. you're going backwards
1:17:24I came around the backside yeah I'm like
1:17:26the Benjamin Button of jonathan coulton
1:17:28not a thing I don't know
1:17:32yeah i think so is alright but i can't
1:17:36wait to like it too baby got back but
1:17:37didn't that'll be that
1:17:38so I think the people who get the
1:17:46reference you're really going to enjoy
1:17:47that I all five of them people who
1:17:52remember I I one of the things you've
1:17:54got a second which was just too i want
1:17:56to list it so the idea is they did this
1:17:58essentially is a jonathan coulton draft
1:18:00where everybody got to pick a 33 rounds
1:18:04of favorite songs and I want to run by
1:18:06you just to see if any of them struck
1:18:08you as being particularly odd i mean i
1:18:10think you're at your favorites that the
1:18:11fans like and I think that's pretty
1:18:13pretty natural but just to run through
1:18:15them alone at home coach that my Mary
1:18:18person pick that huh
1:18:21chiron beta prime code monkey
1:18:24i crush everything I'm your I'm your
1:18:27moon regarding your brains
1:18:31which I think we've clearly establishes
1:18:32read your brains now
1:18:34yes Skullcrusher mountain the future
1:18:37soon the precedence
1:18:39wow you ruined everything
1:18:42nemec's and it's just we were explaining
1:18:45field and if you out of the president I
1:18:48the president's uh I feels like an
1:18:51unusual one for me to pick as a as a
1:18:54favorite only because it's me you know i
1:18:57mean it's what it's one of the sillier
1:18:59ones musically it's a little a little
1:19:01goofball one of our one of our panelists
1:19:04pointed out that his kids he made a
1:19:07playlist of more kid-friendly jonathan
1:19:11coulton songs for his sons after after
1:19:14they loved code monkey and one of his
1:19:17sons drew a picture of a warm fuzzy
1:19:19heart and then stamp intensified on it
1:19:22so it was a warm fuzzy secret heart but
1:19:25when they get to the president's they
1:19:26asked what Bill Clinton did with the
1:19:28cigar and then there was an awkward
1:19:29silence you even when their kid friendly
1:19:34they're not really not only so much that
1:19:37someone is certified alone at home
1:19:39I mean I like that one a lot too but
1:19:42that feels like one that I'm surprised
1:19:45somebody picked as one of their
1:19:46favorites
1:19:47not that it's not good it's a attacks
1:19:50into some something painfully true for a
1:19:52lot of people i think that it's a that's
1:19:54basically what they said is that is that
1:19:55you have those I mean exaggerated to a
1:19:57to surgery with those moments of
1:19:59frustration and in going i was read that
1:20:03as being a little bit of going to your
1:20:04happy place
1:20:05it's I'm not really i'm not really i
1:20:07remember i actually brought back too
1:20:09many memories of going shopping with my
1:20:10mom to the mall and and she would drag
1:20:13me around shopping and I would say I you
1:20:15there's a bench here i'm going to just
1:20:17sit here and stare just yes because I'd
1:20:19rather do that
1:20:20yeah yeah it's funny you mention that
1:20:23because i actually was mostly thinking
1:20:24about my mom once when i started writing
1:20:27that
1:20:29because i have the same thing I was
1:20:31always being dragged around and my wife
1:20:32has never once dragged me around the
1:20:35mall and made me hold her purse she
1:20:36knows better than that
1:20:37and the only reason I got away with
1:20:39actually writing and releasing that song
1:20:42is because she she knows that she has
1:20:45never made me do that couldn't couldn't
1:20:47possibly be about her but with your mom
1:20:49you're powerless but I pray you cannot
1:20:52sorry Superman yeah well no I'm not yeah
1:20:54well exactly but you can't exactly say
1:20:56especially if you're a kid and you can't
1:20:58even drive and you're you know you'd go
1:21:00to the mall and it's like okay you're
1:21:02gonna my multi-tool live downtown with
1:21:03the mall so we were like an hour's drive
1:21:05from also I nobody i knew was there i
1:21:08would literally just there's a fountain
1:21:10with a bench
1:21:11I'm gonna go sit over there yeah and
1:21:14hopefully i went to the bookstore before
1:21:16we got to the department store so I can
1:21:18have a book with me too and you you
1:21:20often find a number of other shopping
1:21:22orphans you know you see other people
1:21:24and even that you see husband sitting in
1:21:26benches and in women's clothing stores
1:21:28it's always the saddest thing in the
1:21:30world could you know you know exactly
1:21:32what they're going through my wife is a
1:21:33knitter and the Knitting stories have
1:21:35got this down they have they have soft
1:21:38chairs and magazines it's like a waiting
1:21:41room 444 husbands and children because
1:21:45they know that that's exactly what
1:21:46happens and and so we were just on
1:21:49vacation and my wife likes to go to yarn
1:21:51stores when she's on vacation and
1:21:53they're always the good yarn shops have
1:21:55appt little place for the husband's to
1:21:57go said your wife and my wife should
1:21:59maybe get together and do some knitting
1:22:01knitting my wife is also also a nigger
1:22:04and a yarn shopper I I don't mind I
1:22:06thought I find the yarn shops very
1:22:08pleasant there's just not really
1:22:09anything for me to do because I its yarn
1:22:12I'm not that excited about the yarn but
1:22:14they can do anything with you
1:22:16they should have when they when they
1:22:17make it yet they should have a yarn
1:22:19store that also has a bar in a ferment
1:22:20and that's it that's going to some a lot
1:22:22of them have tea which is not bad but
1:22:24the yarn the urine bar is a great idea i
1:22:26was thinking either yarn or they should
1:22:28comment like have a combination like
1:22:29yarn and I'm not like comic book store
1:22:32or something just like completely just
1:22:34together with one of those little doors
1:22:37between them connecting doors
1:22:39yeah you could do a lot worse yeah yeah
1:22:41I do
1:22:42for that alright so alone at home and
1:22:45and and the president surprises this is
1:22:48surprising the other ones the other ones
1:22:49definitely feel like you know ones that
1:22:52i would clear included on a list of the
1:22:54most most beloved by me and my fans
1:22:58yeah but there's this dude is to feel
1:22:59like slightly like outliers to me but
1:23:01there were gasps when the president was
1:23:04brought up in the podcast i will say
1:23:05that i know i'm shocked but it's great
1:23:10having everybody I not not to be funding
1:23:13suck-up interview guy but everybody did
1:23:15say that one of the things I really like
1:23:16about your music is that there's a it
1:23:18could very easily be really really nasty
1:23:21and cynical and it's not that there's a
1:23:23real a real genuine heart at the at the
1:23:25center of things and a a song like you
1:23:29ruined everything could very easily be
1:23:32pointed a little bit off-kilter and
1:23:35instead
1:23:35despite you know the subject matter it's
1:23:37very clearly a loving story of life
1:23:40rumination which we all which all
1:23:42parents have gone through write some
1:23:44yeah yeah and I bet it's nice that you
1:23:47know my my favorite thing is when people
1:23:49appreciate that aspect of what I do
1:23:52because it's you know I tried to write
1:23:54you know it's very hard to write a love
1:23:57song in general and for me the only way
1:23:59i can write a love song is to write a
1:24:00love song that is as complicated as
1:24:04actual love is which is to say that it's
1:24:08never it's never just it's never as
1:24:10sunny and bright as as most songs would
1:24:13have you believe it's always it's always
1:24:15kind of twisted and sad but i love the
1:24:18rough the rough edges or give it the
1:24:20definition right exactly something like
1:24:22that yeah well I one last question and
1:24:25then i'll let you go and thank you again
1:24:26so much for doing this and that that is
1:24:28a personal question and you probably
1:24:29don't have an answer but I have debated
1:24:32with myself literally every time I
1:24:34listen to today with your wife i change
1:24:37my opinion about what it's about and
1:24:39perhaps it's just intentionally I feel
1:24:41like you'll be asking you to spoil it
1:24:43now even if there is a defensive end I
1:24:44like to believe that it's a very sad
1:24:46song about somebody who who died but
1:24:50then then I listen to it again I think
1:24:51we only it doesn't you know he might not
1:24:53be dead he could be gone
1:24:55or just a on inattentive or he you know
1:24:59he he went out and never came back
1:25:02but for whatever reason I think I wanted
1:25:04to be just a super sad sweepy song about
1:25:07the tragic aftermath of the of the
1:25:09father of these kids in this husband of
1:25:11this wife dying
1:25:13yeah do you have a specific meaning or
1:25:14is it really good
1:25:16however you interpret it uh you know I I
1:25:19think I geez it's complicated
1:25:24you know I when I when I wrote that one
1:25:26I was thinking about what i think is my
1:25:32favorite song in the world which is a
1:25:34song called famous blue raincoat by
1:25:36letter telling which describes a love
1:25:40triangle it's actually a letter
1:25:42it's a letter read aloud and those are
1:25:46the lyrics of the song and it's a
1:25:47sensitive person writing to somebody who
1:25:49has wronged him
1:25:50there's some sort of love triangle its
1:25:52never fully explained what happened
1:25:55things are alluded to but he the person
1:25:58is writing to he he clearly loved and
1:26:02also hated and it's it's just a
1:26:06beautiful piece of storytelling and so
1:26:08when I the colonel for the idea of this
1:26:12song was that i actually was out
1:26:15somewhere and it was raining and i
1:26:18stopped under an awning and there was a
1:26:21friend's wife with her kids and I'm
1:26:27she's also my friend and we chatted for
1:26:31a little while and then the rain let up
1:26:32and we went home and I was thinking as I
1:26:36was leaving I was thinking about how the
1:26:38next time I saw my friend i would say in
1:26:42that joking leering way you know ahead
1:26:45of had a fantastic time with your wife
1:26:47this afternoon and then as I was as I
1:26:50was imagining myself saying that to him
1:26:53it occurred to me that in my circle of
1:26:57friends which includes a few people who
1:27:00have had their relationships and
1:27:02marriages splinter apart in recent years
1:27:05that's not really a funny joke anymore
1:27:08and so then you know that was that was
1:27:13the beginning of be writing that song
1:27:14was using that using that line as a way
1:27:16of pivoting into this area of incredible
1:27:19sadness and the complications of adult
1:27:22relationships but I also as I was
1:27:24writing it was thinking a lot about the
1:27:26Leonard Cohen song and wanting to keep
1:27:28it I i noticed that there was the that
1:27:31sort of that unclear subject was there
1:27:37from the beginning and I wanted to keep
1:27:39it as ambiguous as possible and as
1:27:42secret and mysterious as possible in the
1:27:44same with the Leonard Cohen song is you
1:27:46your overhearing somebody taught they're
1:27:48not talking to you at all you just
1:27:50happen to be eavesdropping on something
1:27:53and so i wanted i wanted to have that
1:27:55that feel well I'd well don't answer is
1:27:58I don't know I don't know what it's
1:27:59truly about because I wrote I wrote
1:28:02around it but I do know that it's
1:28:04incredibly sad
1:28:05yes oh yeah definitely I think that's
1:28:07why I wanted to be about somebody who's
1:28:08died because if it's not then it's
1:28:11really sad for tuesday really sad if
1:28:14they if they're all still out there and
1:28:16then these lines yeah going on like this
1:28:18but yeah well well well done it is
1:28:20definitely i love that I mean I i want
1:28:23to watch a movie if I if I just sort of
1:28:25nod and say that was fun I leave and I
1:28:27never think about it again I'd almost
1:28:29rather have a movie that I end up
1:28:31thinking about for a week and deciding I
1:28:33didn't like like Inception i ended up
1:28:35thinking about for a weekend in the end
1:28:37I was like you know I don't think I
1:28:38liked it but i'm so happy that i saw it
1:28:40because I thought about it and it's sort
1:28:41of you have a song like that where every
1:28:43time I listen I think well now I know it
1:28:47sounds different and it's the same track
1:28:49over and over but it yet it it yeah
1:28:52there's a different meeting every time I
1:28:53listen
1:28:53so that was definitely my experience
1:28:54with that with that Leonard Cohen song
1:28:56is for years i have i have listened to
1:28:58that song and thought about it when I
1:29:00wasn't listening to it and try to
1:29:02unravel the story and I you know I i
1:29:05have built up in my head all this
1:29:07complicated backstory about what went on
1:29:08based on that song and i think that's
1:29:10that's that's an amazing thing for song
1:29:12to do so
1:29:13yeah that's it thank you that's nice of
1:29:15you that's great that's great i love to
1:29:17listen to it and ponder so yeah well
1:29:19thank you so much for doing this i
1:29:20really appreciate you
1:29:21taking some time to be on our random
1:29:23podcast and not have to listen to an
1:29:26hour of people talking about you could
1:29:29be awkward
1:29:30well as I said very appreciative of the
1:29:32of your attention is very very kind of
1:29:35you thank you again you very well it's
1:29:37just all right don't get by