The Incomparable

96: Space Fedora


00:00:00   the incomparable pod test number 96 jun [TS]

00:00:10   welcome back to the cover podcast I'm [TS]

00:00:12   your host Jason snail and i am here to [TS]

00:00:15   with three lovely panelists to talk to [TS]

00:00:18   you about hugo awards this is something [TS]

00:00:20   that we've done i think all three years [TS]

00:00:22   of the incomparable existence we're [TS]

00:00:24   going to talk about books that were [TS]

00:00:26   nominated for the hugo award this year [TS]

00:00:29   the hugo award is an award bestowed by [TS]

00:00:31   science fiction fans on the best novel [TS]

00:00:33   and also various categories of short [TS]

00:00:35   stories and TV shows and movies and [TS]

00:00:36   things like that and I've always sort of [TS]

00:00:39   treated it with some degree of reverence [TS]

00:00:41   because I I sort of had a quest to read [TS]

00:00:44   all the hugo winning novels and for the [TS]

00:00:46   last few years I've read all the [TS]

00:00:47   nominees and I voted in the hugo awards [TS]

00:00:49   because although I sort of treated the [TS]

00:00:52   hugo awards as the Oscars of science [TS]

00:00:54   fiction in many ways it's the people's [TS]

00:00:56   choice awards of science fiction and [TS]

00:00:58   that anybody can pay to be a voter and [TS]

00:01:00   then vote and that explains perhaps the [TS]

00:01:02   quality of some of the selections but be [TS]

00:01:05   that as it may be we are going to talk [TS]

00:01:06   about it because it was always a way for [TS]

00:01:08   me to to to get some books that i could [TS]

00:01:11   read and and i feel you breathe the [TS]

00:01:13   nominees that sounds like a perfectly [TS]

00:01:14   good idea [TS]

00:01:15   I question this idea this year but I i [TS]

00:01:18   still read them all and i'm joined by [TS]

00:01:20   people who've read various combinations [TS]

00:01:22   of honored scifi books this year [TS]

00:01:25   first up the man who reads everything my [TS]

00:01:28   partner in crime when it comes to [TS]

00:01:29   discussing a book a cold deadline that [TS]

00:01:32   will be coming up it's scott McNulty hi [TS]

00:01:34   Scott Jason I blame you for making me [TS]

00:01:38   read another book by mirror I'm sorry I [TS]

00:01:40   blame the voters I swear it was not me i [TS]

00:01:44   didn't want to read it either but I did [TS]

00:01:45   just like you because we are committed [TS]

00:01:48   to the incredible i do it for the people [TS]

00:01:51   yeah that's right it is for the people [TS]

00:01:53   it's because we love [TS]

00:01:54   exactly so I also joining me today you [TS]

00:01:58   may have heard him [TS]

00:01:59   murmuring to himself in the background [TS]

00:02:01   there it's glenn fleischmann who also [TS]

00:02:02   reads many things I glen i think you're [TS]

00:02:04   hearing me [TS]

00:02:05   breathe deeply that was the that's what [TS]

00:02:07   you heard some oxygen before we get [TS]

00:02:09   started it's always going to write it [TS]

00:02:10   ok so I appreciate you do this every [TS]

00:02:11   year i call this [TS]

00:02:13   it's Hugo remo is how I think of it [TS]

00:02:16   ok it's it's a i read Moby books this [TS]

00:02:19   one it's huge going away reading moment [TS]

00:02:23   it's exactly something like that [TS]

00:02:25   also joining us are our other panelists [TS]

00:02:28   is the great and powerful Monty Ashley [TS]

00:02:31   hi Monty you go girl [TS]

00:02:35   haha wow you know goodnight everybody [TS]

00:02:40   and everything I could have everybody [TS]

00:02:41   else loses but Monty weeks [TS]

00:02:43   yeah I so hope so i guess i should start [TS]

00:02:49   by saying that we'd actually we kind of [TS]

00:02:51   called some of these books in progress [TS]

00:02:54   that we did a an entire episode of the [TS]

00:02:56   uncomfortable about George RR Martin's A [TS]

00:02:58   Dance with Dragons pop culture [TS]

00:03:00   phenomenon the ice and fire books in the [TS]

00:03:03   HBO series and I and we did so you know [TS]

00:03:06   we can't put ourselves on the back too [TS]

00:03:08   much but it did get nominated for hugo [TS]

00:03:10   award i find this funny since its you [TS]

00:03:12   know this fifth book in a impenetrably [TS]

00:03:16   long book series so I i pity the person [TS]

00:03:20   who tries to read all the hugo nominees [TS]

00:03:22   and hasn't read all the books that lead [TS]

00:03:24   up to this much like I pity the people [TS]

00:03:26   who tried to read cryo burn having not [TS]

00:03:29   read the 18 previous Miles Vorkosigan [TS]

00:03:32   books but you know [TS]

00:03:33   them's the breaks I'd high five people [TS]

00:03:35   love the series however is probably [TS]

00:03:38   easier to get into then a dance with [TS]

00:03:41   dragons without any having read the [TS]

00:03:42   previous volumes because I think she [TS]

00:03:44   does a good job of kind of making them a [TS]

00:03:46   little bit self-contained yeah yeah [TS]

00:03:49   and-and-and Dance with Dragons is just [TS]

00:03:52   that you know it's the next thousand [TS]

00:03:53   pages exactly i am surprised anyone [TS]

00:03:56   thought a dance with dragons one of the [TS]

00:03:58   best five novels of the United seems to [TS]

00:03:59   be the consensus of of the podcast [TS]

00:04:01   episode we did too is that is that there [TS]

00:04:03   are good parts in it but there were also [TS]

00:04:05   parts we didn't really like and you know [TS]

00:04:07   I thought it was better than the [TS]

00:04:08   previous book and I really like the [TS]

00:04:10   Theon Greyjoy stuff that's in it but but [TS]

00:04:13   you know it was a you know it was a [TS]

00:04:16   middle chapter ii kind of setting things [TS]

00:04:18   up and moving some stuff along and I'm [TS]

00:04:20   trying to remember the other thing that [TS]

00:04:21   bugged me about it was this sort of [TS]

00:04:23   unnecessary cliffhangers where there's [TS]

00:04:25   some cliffhangers where you're like yeah [TS]

00:04:26   yeah you know you're going to resolve [TS]

00:04:29   that in one chapter next time and it's [TS]

00:04:31   not going to be that big a deal and so [TS]

00:04:32   why are you were coming back we read [TS]

00:04:35   this far we're going to read some more [TS]

00:04:36   why do you need the cliffhanger but I [TS]

00:04:38   don't know some so Monty do you kind of [TS]

00:04:41   go along with that you read the dance [TS]

00:04:42   with dragons right so no no no you just [TS]

00:04:46   really want to do [TS]

00:04:47   yeah i finished the second book am I the [TS]

00:04:49   only one here who read that book then [TS]

00:04:51   you have it [TS]

00:04:53   Oh Scott rado remember I've read all are [TS]

00:04:55   you ready will make everything you read [TS]

00:04:57   every remember do you remember any of [TS]

00:04:59   that those that I do i do I think the [TS]

00:05:01   reek stuff like jason said was fantastic [TS]

00:05:03   yeah do i do find it [TS]

00:05:05   I don't find it puzzling that it's been [TS]

00:05:06   nominated mostly because of the [TS]

00:05:08   juggernaut that is the game of thrones [TS]

00:05:10   right now sure especially since people [TS]

00:05:13   like everybody is reading these books [TS]

00:05:15   now I was at a potluck awhile back and [TS]

00:05:19   one of my friends turned to me and said [TS]

00:05:22   hey Scott have you read any of these [TS]

00:05:24   game with Rome books and I said haha [TS]

00:05:26   let me tell you something I've read them [TS]

00:05:28   all before they were cool ah and what he [TS]

00:05:33   was not impressed and then we can [TS]

00:05:34   interesting by asking what happens in [TS]

00:05:36   the menu couldn't remember how was I [TS]

00:05:37   have no idea what's going to have them [TS]

00:05:39   and then I had another person at the [TS]

00:05:42   party I said oh yeah my mom is reading [TS]

00:05:45   those books how it happened i wanted to [TS]

00:05:48   okay now we can no longer read them [TS]

00:05:50   that's right we can't we can't read this [TS]

00:05:51   out [TS]

00:05:52   we're out the coolness has has evacuated [TS]

00:05:55   well you know I i enjoyed parts of it [TS]

00:05:58   and other parts were fine and I I'm kind [TS]

00:06:00   of committed to that series so I was [TS]

00:06:01   happy to get another installment and but [TS]

00:06:04   it is funny that the stuff that I think [TS]

00:06:06   sticks with me the most is the is the [TS]

00:06:08   the reek stuff and also you know maybe [TS]

00:06:13   some of the stuff with uh you know I'm i [TS]

00:06:17   don't know i mean so it's not sticking [TS]

00:06:19   with me that well is it if I can't [TS]

00:06:20   remember the guy the guy who's like the [TS]

00:06:22   maybe another air and he's got his whole [TS]

00:06:25   like he emerges from out of the boat on [TS]

00:06:28   the river and all that that was kind of [TS]

00:06:30   interested in the whole whole journey of [TS]

00:06:33   of on that boat with the various strange [TS]

00:06:36   people that are on it out the east but [TS]

00:06:38   no I I don't know yeah I who do we [TS]

00:06:42   really didn't yet another person playing [TS]

00:06:45   the game of thrones and it's also funny [TS]

00:06:47   it's you know whatever you guys talk [TS]

00:06:48   about george RR martin like I gave up on [TS]

00:06:50   him in the nineteen eighties I'm like [TS]

00:06:51   hipster giver upper on Martin or and so [TS]

00:06:55   I know he's incredibly popular right now [TS]

00:06:57   but I just I found his style sort of [TS]

00:06:59   unreadable back then and nothing I've [TS]

00:07:01   heard since has made me want to devote [TS]

00:07:02   the seven or eight years necessary after [TS]

00:07:05   yeah yeah let's talk about wild cards [TS]

00:07:08   right now I gave up on wild cards after [TS]

00:07:10   like the eighth book so those came out [TS]

00:07:12   faster because he enlisted other writers [TS]

00:07:15   but I i did like rat wild cards though I [TS]

00:07:18   liked it a lot [TS]

00:07:18   yeah but it seemed like it had really [TS]

00:07:21   good ideas and set up a lot of stuff and [TS]

00:07:23   then kept going on and on and never [TS]

00:07:25   really got any never know [TS]

00:07:27   no well I mean I aight you got sort of [TS]

00:07:29   got the sense i guess they're rebooting [TS]

00:07:30   that but I you sort of got the sense of [TS]

00:07:31   wild cards that you know there was [TS]

00:07:33   nobody really in charge and he was just [TS]

00:07:35   he and his friends kind of playing [TS]

00:07:36   around with stuff and so there wasn't [TS]

00:07:38   there wasn't like any ultimate storyline [TS]

00:07:42   that was going to happen it was just [TS]

00:07:43   let's just play around in this world [TS]

00:07:45   yeah it's just always thought he was [TS]

00:07:46   always thought he was sort of second or [TS]

00:07:48   third rate in the scheme of like [TS]

00:07:50   interesting people to read but he's [TS]

00:07:51   pretentious he's a working writer he [TS]

00:07:53   sort of pulpy right and I mean I always [TS]

00:07:55   respect someone who produces even if [TS]

00:07:57   they pander a little as long as they do [TS]

00:07:59   the things they want people like what [TS]

00:08:00   they do and it's not horrific i mean [TS]

00:08:02   people certainly do like it and it's fun [TS]

00:08:04   so I'm not going to criticize him for [TS]

00:08:06   that I just never liked his writing and [TS]

00:08:08   so whenever he gets the nomination with [TS]

00:08:09   like this I'm like yes the popularity [TS]

00:08:11   contest people are all reading it yes [TS]

00:08:13   they nominated because they it's the one [TS]

00:08:14   thing it's the only book you know he [TS]

00:08:16   does it prevent anything else from being [TS]

00:08:18   nominated because it's the only goal [TS]

00:08:20   oriented exactly yeah very much yeah I [TS]

00:08:23   know I although i'll just say it's not [TS]

00:08:24   the worst nominee so there you go [TS]

00:08:26   oh it is now it's easier this yes our [TS]

00:08:29   Fault in Our from the moving on [TS]

00:08:32   yes uh we should talk about we did it we [TS]

00:08:34   also devote an entire show to embassy [TS]

00:08:36   town by China Mieville i love to talk [TS]

00:08:40   about that for another hour can we do [TS]

00:08:41   that is so lots of people didn't like [TS]

00:08:44   embassy town i liked it although I [TS]

00:08:47   didn't love it and it was definitely a [TS]

00:08:48   letdown after the city and the city but [TS]

00:08:50   I i found [TS]

00:08:51   it kind of fascinating and interesting [TS]

00:08:52   and i like i like how ambitious China [TS]

00:08:54   Mieville is he's a good writer even if [TS]

00:08:57   there are some issues with it its [TS]

00:08:59   execution so we do a little capsule [TS]

00:09:01   summary because not everyone will read [TS]

00:09:03   all these and you're covered that with [TS]

00:09:04   with dances with drag and said you know [TS]

00:09:06   the embassy town is it's kind of a [TS]

00:09:09   sprawling novel but it's a woman who [TS]

00:09:10   she's supposed to be a navigator to help [TS]

00:09:13   move ships between stars takes awhile to [TS]

00:09:15   move stuff there's some interesting [TS]

00:09:16   stuff that's of course abandoned later [TS]

00:09:18   about what the spaces like between the [TS]

00:09:20   Emirates the stream of hyperspace kind [TS]

00:09:22   of twisted space that they have a gate [TS]

00:09:24   which is really kind of cool and they [TS]

00:09:26   introduced it for a while and then let's [TS]

00:09:27   go on and this interesting things about [TS]

00:09:28   interstellar commerce that are actually [TS]

00:09:29   sort of cool and there's robotics which [TS]

00:09:31   is sort of cool and there's alien [TS]

00:09:33   species that's very hard to talk to on [TS]

00:09:35   this planet that Earthlings have sort of [TS]

00:09:37   settled a little bit of with permission [TS]

00:09:38   of these alien bug like species and the [TS]

00:09:41   embassy town on this alien planet the [TS]

00:09:43   humans are there and then they teach the [TS]

00:09:47   aliens bad ideas and everything goes [TS]

00:09:50   awry [TS]

00:09:50   so without going going to far down and I [TS]

00:09:52   know the reason I like this book is [TS]

00:09:53   because i was i was a communication [TS]

00:09:55   major and not the kind of like TV and [TS]

00:09:57   radio kind the social science human [TS]

00:09:58   communication kind and and marty is [TS]

00:10:01   rolling his eyes as he knows about the [TS]

00:10:02   UCSD comp apartment anyway I money where [TS]

00:10:05   you become major to know I was a [TS]

00:10:08   literate well good for you [TS]

00:10:09   I was smarter I and so you can [TS]

00:10:12   appreciate the literature aspect of a [TS]

00:10:14   book like this but you know I liked that [TS]

00:10:16   it was really about like [TS]

00:10:17   miscommunicating or weird ways of [TS]

00:10:21   communicating that aren't human and the [TS]

00:10:23   aliens had this strange way of [TS]

00:10:24   communicating where they leave [TS]

00:10:26   everything was was referential and they [TS]

00:10:29   would make new references and it was a [TS]

00:10:31   little like a really super high falutin [TS]

00:10:33   version of that Darmok episode of Star [TS]

00:10:34   Trek The Next Generation where they all [TS]

00:10:36   of us speaking in metaphors but less fun [TS]

00:10:39   but I did like over that I thought it [TS]

00:10:42   was kind of like a hot expanded universe [TS]

00:10:45   version of the logic puzzle where [TS]

00:10:47   there's a tribe that always lies and [TS]

00:10:48   it's always tells the truth haha yeah [TS]

00:10:51   you know yeah that's it because that [TS]

00:10:53   because as soon as the as soon as the [TS]

00:10:54   aliens learned that you could say [TS]

00:10:56   something that was counterfactual and [TS]

00:10:57   not a reference to something that was [TS]

00:10:58   direct that's when all hell breaks loose [TS]

00:11:01   and they [TS]

00:11:02   rip off their wings yeah they rip off [TS]

00:11:04   their hearing limbs here's the thing [TS]

00:11:06   that I would say about embassy town [TS]

00:11:07   because I'm think I'm a bigger trying to [TS]

00:11:09   be a fan than anybody on the the regular [TS]

00:11:11   incomparable rotating cast of characters [TS]

00:11:13   i don't know i'm i'm close i like it [TS]

00:11:15   okay what the ok well so embassy town [TS]

00:11:17   you I think you liked his time without [TS]

00:11:19   it yeah but i think i think about it is [TS]

00:11:20   like the first third is sort of amazing [TS]

00:11:23   the middle third sort of you're like wow [TS]

00:11:26   where's he going with this and last [TS]

00:11:27   thing you're like oh really i mean that [TS]

00:11:30   was my reaction I didn't think the [TS]

00:11:31   payoff was anywhere near as good as a [TS]

00:11:34   very credible setup and progression and [TS]

00:11:36   that's what made the novel disappoint [TS]

00:11:38   for me and that's why I think that [TS]

00:11:39   Morgan was livid like red with rage yeah [TS]

00:11:41   he hated III one of the things I like [TS]

00:11:43   about embassy town is I felt like again [TS]

00:11:45   this is maybe a good thing but also a [TS]

00:11:47   bad thing about being able as he tries [TS]

00:11:49   he tries so hard that MC town reads to [TS]

00:11:52   me like 10 different sci-fi novels that [TS]

00:11:54   he didn't have time to write and so we [TS]

00:11:56   just jammed parts of them all together [TS]

00:11:58   into one because he's got other stuff to [TS]

00:12:01   right so he's like this part is about [TS]

00:12:02   this embassy this part is about the [TS]

00:12:04   navigators in this part is about the the [TS]

00:12:06   war but in the Civil War that's inside [TS]

00:12:09   and this part is about what happens [TS]

00:12:10   after the Civil War and you know I i [TS]

00:12:12   told my kids my wife read this on my [TS]

00:12:14   recommendation and I was apologetic to [TS]

00:12:15   her when I said we were gonna be doing [TS]

00:12:17   his podcast she said no no i didn't like [TS]

00:12:19   it i just did it wasn't what I expected [TS]

00:12:20   and and that's that's what struck me [TS]

00:12:23   about it too is like you finish the [TS]

00:12:24   chapter and you'll be like wow where [TS]

00:12:25   they go from here [TS]

00:12:26   and the answer is somewhere completely [TS]

00:12:28   different with the next chapter because [TS]

00:12:30   he's always on to the next idea did you [TS]

00:12:32   learn all that stuff about the immer [TS]

00:12:33   forget it [TS]

00:12:35   yeah yeah we're never going back out [TS]

00:12:36   there till the epilogue yeah here's [TS]

00:12:39   here's the thing with with me evil is so [TS]

00:12:42   prolific though it's like if we don't [TS]

00:12:44   like this one next year there'll always [TS]

00:12:45   be another this year we've got the moby [TS]

00:12:47   dick told with railroads and moles giant [TS]

00:12:50   models started started on that better [TS]

00:12:52   than I would have expected he's you know [TS]

00:12:54   there's the rule which is if you have to [TS]

00:12:56   make up words just even start the novel [TS]

00:12:58   often you have to learn new words and [TS]

00:13:00   maybe you shouldn't start its kind of [TS]

00:13:01   called without even central like I like [TS]

00:13:03   to FM and I loved Anna so NM is about [TS]

00:13:06   that it justifies it complete yeah [TS]

00:13:07   absolutely anything rewired my brain I [TS]

00:13:09   feel like me about that some of that [TS]

00:13:11   seriously and evil embassy tended too [TS]

00:13:13   much sitting in the city was a great [TS]

00:13:15   it was a very bare detective novel [TS]

00:13:17   option of rewiring the brain so but i [TS]

00:13:20   think the embassy town up it deserves to [TS]

00:13:22   be in the hugo finalists that wouldn't [TS]

00:13:24   you agree even with its failings I think [TS]

00:13:26   it's one of the best most interesting [TS]

00:13:27   interesting how I was very happy for it [TS]

00:13:29   to be nominated [TS]

00:13:30   yeah there's a specific line in embassy [TS]

00:13:32   town that I want to complain about here [TS]

00:13:34   on the Internet [TS]

00:13:34   yes latah at one point near the end the [TS]

00:13:38   main character says I told him [TS]

00:13:40   revelation was spoiled for him but I can [TS]

00:13:43   retain it for you here which is China's [TS]

00:13:46   excuse for a first-person character not [TS]

00:13:48   telling us what the plan is going to be [TS]

00:13:50   20 pages for now and that is cheating [TS]

00:13:52   yeah but there's something where you [TS]

00:13:53   know your you get angry when certain [TS]

00:13:55   books that will discuss later are [TS]

00:13:56   nominated for words like this you think [TS]

00:13:58   they don't deserve to be in the same [TS]

00:13:59   company an embassy town it's like I [TS]

00:14:00   don't know if i would recommend people [TS]

00:14:02   read it or not I think I would because [TS]

00:14:03   either they get mad after i read it i [TS]

00:14:05   think it exposes them to nuke ways of [TS]

00:14:07   thinking and it it moves you to an [TS]

00:14:11   emotion of some kind and you can realize [TS]

00:14:14   as your as you're reading it you read [TS]

00:14:15   you you recognize that he is a good [TS]

00:14:18   writer you may not think that he [TS]

00:14:20   successfully does what he's trying to do [TS]

00:14:22   with the book but I give him a lot of [TS]

00:14:24   credit for trying to do something [TS]

00:14:25   different ya i thought it was really [TS]

00:14:27   good world-building I didn't think it [TS]

00:14:29   was successful storytelling [TS]

00:14:31   yeah exactly yeah i mean that an [TS]

00:14:33   individual parts of it are beautifully [TS]

00:14:35   written because he's a very good writer [TS]

00:14:36   but the story is sort of like it again [TS]

00:14:39   that's my feeling about like it keeps [TS]

00:14:41   changing what it's about every chapter [TS]

00:14:42   and it that isn't necessarily good [TS]

00:14:45   storytelling it's like a slideshow right [TS]

00:14:47   and it's like different images different [TS]

00:14:49   little bits but not really the story and [TS]

00:14:52   and there's a there's a whole thing [TS]

00:14:53   about her like husband or blacks husband [TS]

00:14:56   who disappears and comes back later [TS]

00:14:58   that felt actually kind of cheap and and [TS]

00:15:00   why a plot device that he needed was a [TS]

00:15:02   very Stephenson real serious thing that [TS]

00:15:04   happens in a quicksilver in [TS]

00:15:06   cryptonomicon as a character like that [TS]

00:15:08   has mentioned early on he doesn't seem [TS]

00:15:10   very important at the end comes back [TS]

00:15:11   into some crazy military-style thing [TS]

00:15:14   that is absolutely out of nowhere and [TS]

00:15:15   sort of exactly as it happens embassy [TS]

00:15:17   town always irritated me in economic [TS]

00:15:19   onto all right should we move on to [TS]

00:15:23   let's say we touched upon we touched [TS]

00:15:25   upon among others [TS]

00:15:27   in a couple previous podcasts and I want [TS]

00:15:29   to bring it up again only because it is [TS]

00:15:31   a great and I can't believe we didn't [TS]

00:15:35   just devote an entire podcast into it [TS]

00:15:37   and it's going to get my vote for the [TS]

00:15:39   best novel of the year because it's the [TS]

00:15:41   best novel of the year i think it is by [TS]

00:15:44   Joe Walton it's a story about a girl who [TS]

00:15:48   is Welsh and she is in and in a school a [TS]

00:15:51   private school she can take it away from [TS]

00:15:53   her mother's family to her father's [TS]

00:15:55   family her mother's family as well as [TS]

00:15:56   her father's family is English he had [TS]

00:15:57   never really known her father but she's [TS]

00:16:01   taken away and put the school in England [TS]

00:16:05   and shes lonely and she's starting to [TS]

00:16:06   meet friends and she's reading tearing [TS]

00:16:09   through the science fiction in the [TS]

00:16:10   library so it's about science fiction [TS]

00:16:12   but what's funny about it is it like [TS]

00:16:14   like the george RR martin book is [TS]

00:16:15   actually a fantasy novel because her [TS]

00:16:17   mother and her family are like witches [TS]

00:16:20   and there's this thing with spells and [TS]

00:16:22   fairies and she has to go back to Wales [TS]

00:16:25   and fight the fairies and you're [TS]

00:16:26   wondering is she crazy or issue really [TS]

00:16:29   reading sci-fi while living in a fantasy [TS]

00:16:32   world which i think is really what it [TS]

00:16:33   what it is but it's so it's so great as [TS]

00:16:36   a coming-of-age story and a love letter [TS]

00:16:38   to kids who are socially maladjusted and [TS]

00:16:42   are finding finding a escape through [TS]

00:16:46   science fiction and also meeting friends [TS]

00:16:48   because there's this book club that kind [TS]

00:16:50   of shows up where they were they discuss [TS]

00:16:53   science fiction so it's about us in ways [TS]

00:16:55   to i just i love this book it says she's [TS]

00:16:58   such a great writer [TS]

00:16:59   yeah it it's about how science fiction [TS]

00:17:01   gives her a family of friends which is [TS]

00:17:06   not only the way a lot of older [TS]

00:17:07   science-fiction fans like me feel [TS]

00:17:09   basically a younger science-fiction fan [TS]

00:17:11   wants to feel so it really spoke to me [TS]

00:17:16   although I wonder how good a book it is [TS]

00:17:18   if you don't recognize every single [TS]

00:17:20   title as she goes through I i missed [TS]

00:17:23   half of them honestly I haven't read a [TS]

00:17:25   lot of the Canon of sci-fi but I do [TS]

00:17:27   enough to be like oh she's going to the [TS]

00:17:29   can and when she would hit a book that I [TS]

00:17:30   i have read or I know about I i would i [TS]

00:17:33   would perk up a little but for me it was [TS]

00:17:35   like I knew enough about it to get [TS]

00:17:37   through it i didn't need to relive [TS]

00:17:39   of those books that i read so it worked [TS]

00:17:40   for me even though i haven't read a lot [TS]

00:17:42   of that stuff we're just a few years [TS]

00:17:43   behind when the book was written in [TS]

00:17:45   terms of probably reading this kind of [TS]

00:17:46   stuff i started reading science fiction [TS]

00:17:47   pretty seriously probably right around [TS]

00:17:49   there a little later and I was often [TS]

00:17:51   because i buy used books or [TS]

00:17:52   what-have-you I was always maybe a few [TS]

00:17:55   years behind so what she was reading in [TS]

00:17:56   the book takes place in 1979 1909-10 80 [TS]

00:18:00   right goes over the new year and what I [TS]

00:18:04   think i read not exactly the sequence [TS]

00:18:06   but a lot of that because it was all [TS]

00:18:07   contemporary even if it was you know [TS]

00:18:09   from four years before you work through [TS]

00:18:11   stuff and she's reading stuff that goes [TS]

00:18:12   back even a decade sometimes or or the [TS]

00:18:15   revelations great what she's like oh [TS]

00:18:17   james t chip tree one of my favorite [TS]

00:18:18   authors will something to a podcast [TS]

00:18:20   about you and she's so if he's a she and [TS]

00:18:23   that great revelation and she sort of [TS]

00:18:25   even comments and how people reacted to [TS]

00:18:27   that as I was happening contemporarily [TS]

00:18:29   yeah I I i have fun memories of going to [TS]

00:18:33   the library and there's a library in the [TS]

00:18:35   school librarian in this who ended up [TS]

00:18:37   going to the town libraries in the [TS]

00:18:39   library's figure in and I went to the [TS]

00:18:41   library and I i literally I went through [TS]

00:18:43   every sci-fi book in the children's [TS]

00:18:45   section and I by the time i got through [TS]

00:18:47   with that the librarian said you know [TS]

00:18:48   there's a whole adult sci-fi section [TS]

00:18:49   seriously what should I want to go to [TS]

00:18:52   there right so it was so that I had to [TS]

00:18:55   add that fun this to that you know she's [TS]

00:18:56   she's having a hard hard time making her [TS]

00:18:58   way in the world and she's reading these [TS]

00:18:59   books and meeting these people and [TS]

00:19:01   that's all great and then meanwhile [TS]

00:19:02   she's grappling with her mother [TS]

00:19:04   casting spells on her and the fact that [TS]

00:19:06   she has to go back to Wales in order to [TS]

00:19:07   fight the ferry ghost people which is [TS]

00:19:10   like you know that happened to me too so [TS]

00:19:12   I did not really identify with that part [TS]

00:19:14   i mostly assumed she was crazy now no I [TS]

00:19:17   also joe Walton I saw an interview with [TS]

00:19:20   John Walton and she said I am outraged [TS]

00:19:22   that people think you're crazy [TS]

00:19:24   she's not crazy that that is actually [TS]

00:19:26   happening yeah which kind of the book a [TS]

00:19:28   little less interesting to me but I [TS]

00:19:30   don't think it is fantastically written [TS]

00:19:32   as you read you wonder for a while and [TS]

00:19:34   then I finally i'm just kinda came to [TS]

00:19:36   accept it's like no this is real in [TS]

00:19:37   terms of the book it's totally real [TS]

00:19:39   it's the matter of fact this is why [TS]

00:19:41   people think that is that it's addressed [TS]

00:19:42   it's it's just part of her life and she [TS]

00:19:44   knows some people can't see it and she [TS]

00:19:46   can but in their shades it for different [TS]

00:19:48   people but it's just that is the more [TS]

00:19:50   wolf of that universe and so it's not [TS]

00:19:53   told the zoo ferry will let you know she [TS]

00:19:55   makes fun of herself [TS]

00:19:57   the main character makes fun of herself [TS]

00:19:58   in how she even and how ridiculous it is [TS]

00:20:02   and she's like maybe talkin new fairies [TS]

00:20:06   maybe he actually knew them because gosh [TS]

00:20:07   some of the stuff they do is so close [TS]

00:20:09   but it's like he made up the words they [TS]

00:20:10   say because they don't really talk like [TS]

00:20:12   that he wanted to give them you know [TS]

00:20:14   better presentation i also think that [TS]

00:20:16   it's gotta be you know in part this book [TS]

00:20:18   is about that the weird interface [TS]

00:20:20   between fantasy and science fiction and [TS]

00:20:22   I mean it's purposeful she's writing a [TS]

00:20:23   fantasy novel in which the character [TS]

00:20:25   read science fiction i think that's [TS]

00:20:26   interesting too i think a lot of her [TS]

00:20:28   readers who are wondering if it if she's [TS]

00:20:29   crazy are people who are maybe a little [TS]

00:20:31   more predisposed to sci-fi and a little [TS]

00:20:34   less than fantasy and that's not even [TS]

00:20:35   money right and if it's true she didn't [TS]

00:20:37   just read science fiction to read this [TS]

00:20:38   allows me amber but that's strange [TS]

00:20:40   that's true she read part of highlands [TS]

00:20:42   glory road before pitching it decided to [TS]

00:20:45   send all right fair enough but she's [TS]

00:20:47   reading all the general stuff and she [TS]

00:20:48   lives in a world where their fantasy [TS]

00:20:50   elements that are absolutely real true [TS]

00:20:52   and I don't think I think that certainly [TS]

00:20:53   it helps if you are a sci-fi fantasy fan [TS]

00:20:57   reading this book but i think if you are [TS]

00:21:00   someone who grew up reading anything [TS]

00:21:02   no it is such a great book and you will [TS]

00:21:04   really identify with the main character [TS]

00:21:06   other than the whole fairy thing that it [TS]

00:21:09   is just a very satisfying book and I've [TS]

00:21:11   said it before but I think John Walton [TS]

00:21:13   is just a fantastic writer and and so I [TS]

00:21:17   think that I on in my blog post that I [TS]

00:21:19   wrote about the the hugo nominees I said [TS]

00:21:21   that among other among others is this [TS]

00:21:24   year's dervish house in that I think it [TS]

00:21:26   should win but it is not going to it's [TS]

00:21:29   rather lovely as that is the thing about [TS]

00:21:31   it is you read someone who writes like [TS]

00:21:33   this and you and like and I think this [TS]

00:21:34   toothbrush us as well you know it's not [TS]

00:21:38   work to read the book she sucks you into [TS]

00:21:41   the world she's painting and you're in [TS]

00:21:43   that girl's life and when things happen [TS]

00:21:45   that are unusual it's just part of [TS]

00:21:47   what's happening [TS]

00:21:48   it's just beautiful to read it's just [TS]

00:21:49   she also have been captures the ordinary [TS]

00:21:52   human interactions the middle of all the [TS]

00:21:53   nonsense that's going on and she does [TS]

00:21:55   that thing i love that any science [TS]

00:21:57   fiction or fantasy author does which is [TS]

00:21:59   set up expectations and then and then [TS]

00:22:01   not [TS]

00:22:01   them down through fantastical elements [TS]

00:22:03   that are well integrated so you think of [TS]

00:22:06   her father sort of a sad sack is under [TS]

00:22:08   sisters thumb you know they have the [TS]

00:22:10   money but as it goes on and rice should [TS]

00:22:13   be spoiler horn and I want to give [TS]

00:22:14   anything away i don't know the small [TS]

00:22:18   spoiler fact that the sisters turn out [TS]

00:22:20   to have maybe some witchy powers without [TS]

00:22:23   fully understanding themselves even that [TS]

00:22:25   they do and that the father is actually [TS]

00:22:26   being you know sort of essentially [TS]

00:22:28   mystically compelled to be under their [TS]

00:22:31   thumb to do their bidding so they don't [TS]

00:22:33   have to deal as much with the world i [TS]

00:22:35   mean that's a little beautiful thing [TS]

00:22:36   where she then relationship with her [TS]

00:22:38   father shifts a little from sort of [TS]

00:22:40   discussed two more pity [TS]

00:22:42   mmm can i bring up one other thing for [TS]

00:22:44   the book i'm going to dominate [TS]

00:22:45   discussion of this book because I will [TS]

00:22:47   be all of it to go ahead Glenn go ahead [TS]

00:22:50   well so that would be the best thing in [TS]

00:22:51   it is it is she is she introduced the [TS]

00:22:53   concept of fantasy retcon what you think [TS]

00:22:56   the whole business about magic doesn't [TS]

00:22:58   work generally magic doesn't work about [TS]

00:23:00   making something happen going forward [TS]

00:23:02   it works by changing all the past events [TS]

00:23:05   necessary including making people be [TS]

00:23:07   born who didn't were important before in [TS]

00:23:09   order to create a scenario alright she [TS]

00:23:11   feels that you actually feels that the [TS]

00:23:13   what's happened is the culmination of [TS]

00:23:15   you know everything that's happened in [TS]

00:23:17   your life is the result of spells to [TS]

00:23:18   culminate in getting her where she needs [TS]

00:23:20   to go right which is an interesting way [TS]

00:23:22   of looking at whether that's completely [TS]

00:23:24   crazy or not it's fascinating [TS]

00:23:26   she doesn't know when the ferry sort of [TS]

00:23:27   imply that they sort of don't have a you [TS]

00:23:30   know necessarily they're like okay we [TS]

00:23:32   need you to be here so we cause she's [TS]

00:23:34   like did they change the school vacation [TS]

00:23:36   schedule for all schools and wales and [TS]

00:23:38   england in order that i could not hear [TS]

00:23:40   time to meet them and then she gets [TS]

00:23:41   disturbed about the book club she's like [TS]

00:23:43   I don't the guy remember the book clubs [TS]

00:23:45   the guy works in the library is sort of [TS]

00:23:47   rude to her and cold the first week and [TS]

00:23:49   then two weeks later he's lovely and [TS]

00:23:51   mentions a book club they have and she's [TS]

00:23:53   thinking did this 60 year old woman is [TS]

00:23:55   in the book club which she never been [TS]

00:23:57   born if I didn't need the book club to [TS]

00:23:59   exist very very good concept i think [TS]

00:24:02   it's got a great chance of winning [TS]

00:24:03   because the hugo voters are people who [TS]

00:24:05   go to or have memberships for worldcon [TS]

00:24:08   and in many ways this book is a love [TS]

00:24:11   letter to science fiction fandom so I [TS]

00:24:13   think it's gonna do really well among [TS]

00:24:14   the populace at @anjghie Walton is a [TS]

00:24:17   very respected I mean people do love her [TS]

00:24:20   and in in the in the sci-fi and [TS]

00:24:24   convention going community so she's not [TS]

00:24:26   like some kind of outsider person either [TS]

00:24:27   so she bought she's also out there cuz [TS]

00:24:29   she blogs regularly on tor.com she [TS]

00:24:31   actually has done a chapter-by-chapter [TS]

00:24:33   analysis of the Patrick Rothfuss books [TS]

00:24:37   that we talked about on this podcast the [TS]

00:24:39   name of the wind and the wise man's fear [TS]

00:24:40   where she's blown my mind by doing some [TS]

00:24:43   various kind of connecting the dots of [TS]

00:24:45   the things in the office books so I you [TS]

00:24:48   know she's out there and she's active in [TS]

00:24:50   writing about this stuff too so I think [TS]

00:24:52   she's got it [TS]

00:24:52   I think she's got a fighting chance I [TS]

00:24:54   think there may be black backlash [TS]

00:24:55   against george RR martin so nobody had [TS]

00:24:57   one last year welcome thing at after [TS]

00:24:59   reading among others which was my first [TS]

00:25:01   row Walton book I then read three more [TS]

00:25:03   in short succession farthing Halfpenny [TS]

00:25:06   and half a crown which are and that she [TS]

00:25:09   calls it her small change trilogy [TS]

00:25:11   yes which it's a it's an alt history [TS]

00:25:15   that is disguised the first book at [TS]

00:25:17   least disguise as an Agatha Christie [TS]

00:25:19   novel and it and ends up much more like [TS]

00:25:23   yes and it's fantastic yeah I haven't [TS]

00:25:26   read the third one of those yet but I [TS]

00:25:27   read the first two and they are they are [TS]

00:25:29   spectacular [TS]

00:25:30   I will i said this on the previous [TS]

00:25:31   podcast i will read anything but you're [TS]

00:25:33   walking now because she's not as well I [TS]

00:25:35   I'm gonna go retcon having read [TS]

00:25:36   everything she's written actually first [TS]

00:25:39   I have to read everything she's read [TS]

00:25:41   because I'm treating among others as my [TS]

00:25:44   new book list there's a there's a [TS]

00:25:45   website that someone has listed every [TS]

00:25:47   book with a cover that she mentions in [TS]

00:25:50   another's nice which pretty sure we move [TS]

00:25:55   on to to Leviathan wakes let's talk [TS]

00:26:00   about life takes a chance on quarry [TS]

00:26:03   which is a fake name because it's [TS]

00:26:04   actually George RR Martin's assistant [TS]

00:26:07   assistant if and a co-author is good and [TS]

00:26:11   great friend [TS]

00:26:12   yes who's like an agent or works at a [TS]

00:26:17   publishing company or something anyway [TS]

00:26:18   so it's a it's a it's a this is a this [TS]

00:26:21   is a spy [TS]

00:26:22   sopra would you say Scott I would say [TS]

00:26:25   that well this is a so it's interesting [TS]

00:26:27   it is kind of a space after i would say [TS]

00:26:31   it's a small-scale space opera because [TS]

00:26:33   it's been in the solar system by Castro [TS]

00:26:35   and move exactly so it's not really when [TS]

00:26:37   you think space opera traditional space [TS]

00:26:39   opera it's kind of a speedo [TS]

00:26:41   galaxy-spanning and there are huge [TS]

00:26:43   numbers of spaceships and that's not [TS]

00:26:45   really what this book is it's a they are [TS]

00:26:47   kind of they are within the solar system [TS]

00:26:49   and they go to a different asteroids and [TS]

00:26:52   planets and things but there isn't a [TS]

00:26:54   large amount of kind of a vessel combat [TS]

00:27:00   or anything like that right there is a [TS]

00:27:01   little bit but but not a lot [TS]

00:27:04   yeah so it's kind of it's certainly the [TS]

00:27:06   I think the purest science fiction novel [TS]

00:27:08   that has among the nominees [TS]

00:27:11   uh yeah i get i guess so i mean i guess [TS]

00:27:14   i guess you'd have to say it is uh it's [TS]

00:27:16   it's interesting it's golden tooth [TS]

00:27:18   timeframes the captain he doesn't start [TS]

00:27:21   out as the captain but he ends up as the [TS]

00:27:22   captain of this crew people on these [TS]

00:27:24   various spaceships and then there's this [TS]

00:27:26   guy Miller who's a cop on the edge a cop [TS]

00:27:29   on the beat and need an asteroid and [TS]

00:27:31   horny Miller and he's very top on the ad [TS]

00:27:34   space cup on the edge of space wanted [TS]

00:27:35   space and and he's he's fun and that he [TS]

00:27:40   is a very new orange kind of guy where [TS]

00:27:43   he's a you know he's a he's divorced and [TS]

00:27:47   he's got a drinking problem and he has a [TS]

00:27:51   partner who's come problematic as his [TS]

00:27:53   partner is like a an earther he's not a [TS]

00:27:56   is outside you know spacer kind of guy [TS]

00:27:59   and there's a conspiracy and I and [TS]

00:28:04   they're gonna take this badge way and [TS]

00:28:06   actually you're part of it reminded me [TS]

00:28:07   of the trick with george RR martin does [TS]

00:28:09   in the first game of thrones and then a [TS]

00:28:11   game of thrones where there's a prologue [TS]

00:28:14   that says something really strange is [TS]

00:28:16   happening and then he leaves he just [TS]

00:28:19   lays it there for like 300 pages and you [TS]

00:28:22   think you're reading one novel and um [TS]

00:28:25   and you realize i'm only halfway through [TS]

00:28:27   when this is wrapping up what is going [TS]

00:28:30   to happen and then you realize oh right [TS]

00:28:31   the prologue [TS]

00:28:32   surely that was that what i thought it [TS]

00:28:35   was are there really your thing you [TS]

00:28:37   notice base vomit zombie people running [TS]

00:28:40   around answers yes there are vomit [TS]

00:28:43   zombies and yes vomit zombies is how he [TS]

00:28:45   refers to them in the book this book I [TS]

00:28:50   think there's a lot of fun to read and [TS]

00:28:52   it was it was the first time I should [TS]

00:28:54   admit that I i attempted to read this my [TS]

00:28:58   first attempt fails because i read the [TS]

00:29:00   the beginning the prologue and for [TS]

00:29:03   whatever reason it did not interest me [TS]

00:29:04   at all so i put it aside but I am glad [TS]

00:29:07   that it was nominated for a human [TS]

00:29:09   because that forced me to actually read [TS]

00:29:11   the whole thing and it was once you get [TS]

00:29:13   past at least once I got past the first [TS]

00:29:15   like 30 pages i was hooked [TS]

00:29:18   I must have stopped 29 the first time [TS]

00:29:20   round I thought you'd like that [TS]

00:29:23   the norrish to space detective guy part1 [TS]

00:29:25   he was not in the the program yeah why [TS]

00:29:29   why is there not a a guy wearing a space [TS]

00:29:31   for Dora that's what I say I'm he does [TS]

00:29:34   like this is what I no time [TS]

00:29:36   oh yeah that's right i guess a space for [TS]

00:29:38   Dora finally unlocked yes governor [TS]

00:29:42   I i may be wrong about this but I felt [TS]

00:29:44   like the parts that weren't the space [TS]

00:29:46   cop may have started life as firefly [TS]

00:29:49   fanfic funds read that it is actually [TS]

00:29:53   had someone grabbed his kind of gruff [TS]

00:29:55   and Andy yeah you gotta growth captain [TS]

00:29:59   who's got a code of honor plays by his [TS]

00:30:01   own rules [TS]

00:30:02   he's flanked by a huge weapon obsessed [TS]

00:30:04   guy and his second-in-command a super [TS]

00:30:06   confident lady of big ethnicity [TS]

00:30:08   yeah it was a great engineer is a [TS]

00:30:10   fantastic engineering has anything was [TS]

00:30:12   spittin whatever and they do a lot of [TS]

00:30:14   quickie things the middle of fights and [TS]

00:30:16   you know he looked over and shrug i [TS]

00:30:19   thought you knew [TS]

00:30:20   parts of it felt very weenie in a good [TS]

00:30:24   way but I especially liked media are [TS]

00:30:28   holding the sort of the camera is sort [TS]

00:30:31   of grizzled he was awfully grizzled even [TS]

00:30:33   though i think he was supposed to be [TS]

00:30:34   quite young at the same time still [TS]

00:30:36   unclear and lost trying to help these [TS]

00:30:37   supposed to be Grizzles before his tag [TS]

00:30:39   which must be handsome and [TS]

00:30:41   and vigorous and virile he's personally [TS]

00:30:45   and character because he is for a guy [TS]

00:30:46   who's not in charge he is super [TS]

00:30:48   competent it with the one exception [TS]

00:30:50   which is that he can't shut up and he [TS]

00:30:53   says stupid stuff over public airwaves [TS]

00:30:55   friday and add and constants that are [TS]

00:30:58   true but in politic but other than that [TS]

00:31:01   he's like super comp confident which I [TS]

00:31:03   thought was kind of funny because he's [TS]

00:31:04   not like he was ever the captain before [TS]

00:31:07   he was not the captain before but then [TS]

00:31:10   the captain and many other people died [TS]

00:31:12   and he's the cabinet but he had some [TS]

00:31:14   great lines like it's like you know just [TS]

00:31:16   for once I'd like to get off a ship or [TS]

00:31:17   planet and not have it blown up behind [TS]

00:31:20   when he does get a complex about that to [TS]

00:31:21   ride a horse like triggers keep stopping [TS]

00:31:23   well they over and over again and then [TS]

00:31:25   but ended the moments where the stories [TS]

00:31:27   intersect that are actually very funny [TS]

00:31:29   because the two main characters you're [TS]

00:31:30   like oh these are my buddies and [TS]

00:31:31   following through here they hate each [TS]

00:31:33   other [TS]

00:31:33   I said okay we're making sure they're [TS]

00:31:36   forced to work together of course they [TS]

00:31:37   are because it's an odd couple and their [TS]

00:31:39   force towards justice in space [TS]

00:31:42   I thought it was fun it wasn't deep i [TS]

00:31:45   thought it lasted maybe a hundred fifty [TS]

00:31:48   pages to libraries among them like yes I [TS]

00:31:51   just thought that felt like the end and [TS]

00:31:53   then it just kind of kept going kept [TS]

00:31:54   looking at the page count i was like [TS]

00:31:56   Shirley we're wrapping up here like oh [TS]

00:31:58   my god on that page like 400 off 500 [TS]

00:32:01   something i don't think so the Miller [TS]

00:32:05   gets obsessed with solving this murder [TS]

00:32:09   or looking for the script about a girl [TS]

00:32:11   it's about a girl right get obsessed and [TS]

00:32:14   he starts having conversations with her [TS]

00:32:16   and kind of hallucinates about her and I [TS]

00:32:19   thought that was i I would and another [TS]

00:32:22   novel that's nominated has a similar [TS]

00:32:23   device and I thought it was much better [TS]

00:32:25   executed in the violin wakes then in [TS]

00:32:28   another of the nominees [TS]

00:32:30   yeah I i guess so i thought that was [TS]

00:32:33   weird but it was sort of like you know [TS]

00:32:35   we accept that he's kind of gone crazy [TS]

00:32:37   and is obsessed with it and that worked [TS]

00:32:39   for me the thing that bugged me i think [TS]

00:32:40   was the was in the other in the parallel [TS]

00:32:43   story there's this whole subplot about [TS]

00:32:45   you know [TS]

00:32:47   oh I'm the captain but I didn't know the [TS]

00:32:49   girl [TS]

00:32:50   who is the second in command but I can't [TS]

00:32:52   do anything because I'm the captain but [TS]

00:32:54   I love her and then she's like but I've [TS]

00:32:56   always loved you and it's like well then [TS]

00:32:59   let's do it and they go off and then [TS]

00:33:02   it's all weird and awkward and I I [TS]

00:33:04   thought that was just so bizarre that it [TS]

00:33:06   was like such a strange like is I don't [TS]

00:33:09   know it seemed a bit much to me that was [TS]

00:33:11   that was just like really is that what [TS]

00:33:13   do we want to have what we got vomit [TS]

00:33:15   zombies here do we really need the [TS]

00:33:16   unrequited love of the captain and I [TS]

00:33:19   will also say there is like let's talk [TS]

00:33:21   about let's talk about science now the [TS]

00:33:23   protomolecule like a good device but [TS]

00:33:26   they there's something I don't know [TS]

00:33:28   there's something both like interesting [TS]

00:33:29   and sloppy it's like this thing this [TS]

00:33:31   protomolecule whatever it is can like [TS]

00:33:33   take over any life-form encounters and [TS]

00:33:36   it's it's anaerobic somehow they have to [TS]

00:33:39   vomit out to spread it and constantly [TS]

00:33:41   constantly around places in which the [TS]

00:33:43   things should be everywhere and it [TS]

00:33:45   should be airborne just as particles not [TS]

00:33:48   like paralyzed or whatever and they [TS]

00:33:50   don't get infected like they're [TS]

00:33:51   constantly constantly and things being [TS]

00:33:52   blown up shot expanded seeping and [TS]

00:33:55   you're like no no these guys they're [TS]

00:33:57   wearing the spacesuit and there [TS]

00:33:58   nope no could possibly like a little bit [TS]

00:34:01   of that you know that it was when you [TS]

00:34:02   have the creeping crud you have to a [TS]

00:34:04   little better explanation about why the [TS]

00:34:05   crud doesn't affect people that's [TS]

00:34:07   troubling this is also not the only book [TS]

00:34:09   that has zombies in it but it's trippy I [TS]

00:34:11   i liked the premise more there's a [TS]

00:34:14   there's an interstellar biological [TS]

00:34:17   weapon [TS]

00:34:17   yeah that we have that we sort of dodged [TS]

00:34:19   a bullet on and now people have [TS]

00:34:21   uncovered it and and also draw a [TS]

00:34:23   parallel to the george RR martin stuff [TS]

00:34:24   it's sort of like everybody's fighting [TS]

00:34:26   with each other over the control of this [TS]

00:34:28   thing when in fact this thing is going [TS]

00:34:30   to kill us all right but its fingers a [TS]

00:34:33   little alien z yeah the bio weapon [TS]

00:34:36   yeah I wanted to say it was like we'd [TS]

00:34:37   meet aliens but then I realized that [TS]

00:34:39   happened in Alien Resurrection right I i [TS]

00:34:41   love to see i love the scenes where they [TS]

00:34:43   they basically have this plan where [TS]

00:34:45   they're going to kill everybody on the [TS]

00:34:47   one asteroid in order to test out this [TS]

00:34:49   thing and they throw them in like the [TS]

00:34:50   radiation and that leads to a funny [TS]

00:34:53   thing where our guys get dosed with [TS]

00:34:54   radiation a fatal level if they don't [TS]

00:34:56   get help and they're not sure if the [TS]

00:34:58   ship is still there and they have to get [TS]

00:34:59   through all of the series of things and [TS]

00:35:01   I thought that would make a good i mean [TS]

00:35:03   that's like the thing [TS]

00:35:04   put in the movie right it's like a nice [TS]

00:35:05   set piece that they go through where [TS]

00:35:07   they think they're gonna die and trying [TS]

00:35:08   to get out of this I asteroid that [TS]

00:35:10   essentially everybody in it is going to [TS]

00:35:11   die because they've all been infected i [TS]

00:35:13   thought that was kind of cool that the [TS]

00:35:14   the villains of the Peace the corporate [TS]

00:35:17   corporate villains of course it's a [TS]

00:35:19   corporation that's very alien to [TS]

00:35:20   actually r-ark sabotaging this in order [TS]

00:35:23   to test out this terrible thing that's [TS]

00:35:26   gonna kill all of humanity [TS]

00:35:27   I like they're desperate escape there I [TS]

00:35:30   felt the radiation sickness kind of got [TS]

00:35:33   forgotten towards the end of the book [TS]

00:35:34   certainly by me [TS]

00:35:36   yeah they got cured ya know they didn't [TS]

00:35:38   cure the the only signal hills and since [TS]

00:35:41   taking pills and he's probably gonna be [TS]

00:35:42   all the rest of his life and Miller [TS]

00:35:44   winds up you know you know what happened [TS]

00:35:46   when I remember what happened to Miller [TS]

00:35:47   you don't let that happen to you yeah [TS]

00:35:50   Here I think I'm pretty safe that what [TS]

00:35:51   happened to me but i wanted to i want to [TS]

00:35:53   draw a parallel to a pair of books i was [TS]

00:35:55   thinking about the alien threat thing [TS]

00:35:57   like the idea that alien civilizations [TS]

00:35:59   I mean there is that notion in some [TS]

00:36:00   sci-fi that you see it actually quite a [TS]

00:36:03   bit of the space operate stuff is that [TS]

00:36:04   if you don't if humans don't expand to [TS]

00:36:06   fill the universe some other more [TS]

00:36:08   successful species will because even [TS]

00:36:10   those spaces you know it's not virtually [TS]

00:36:12   infinite there's only a finite amount of [TS]

00:36:14   space in the galaxy and all habitable [TS]

00:36:16   planets for a particular in a life-form [TS]

00:36:18   type will be filled and there's Greg [TS]

00:36:21   bear has a nice top don't know there's [TS]

00:36:23   some authors you sort of write ups [TS]

00:36:24   patients with Rory or you read Darwin [TS]

00:36:27   radio and either way I'm right exactly [TS]

00:36:30   but for just the forge of God is 97 book [TS]

00:36:33   and then the sequel anvil stars are [TS]

00:36:35   beautifully paired books i highly [TS]

00:36:37   recommend the forge of God is earth gets [TS]

00:36:41   attacked by some it's a bizarre thing [TS]

00:36:43   it's like first contact then things [TS]

00:36:45   started to fall apart and it turns out [TS]

00:36:46   it's basically aliens using a technique [TS]

00:36:49   I think they'd vaporize like one of the [TS]

00:36:50   moons of jupiter in order to have the [TS]

00:36:53   mass necessary to carry out the attack [TS]

00:36:55   but its automated self-replicating [TS]

00:36:57   machines that go through and destroy any [TS]

00:36:59   other trace of life in the universe so [TS]

00:37:01   that they don't wind up becoming a [TS]

00:37:02   threat and trying to you know look for [TS]

00:37:04   latent well later there's a series of [TS]

00:37:07   books by jack mcdevitt that are like [TS]

00:37:10   that too where there's basically these [TS]

00:37:11   Omega clouds that come through and they [TS]

00:37:13   figure out that it they're essentially [TS]

00:37:16   you know they're they're intelligent [TS]

00:37:18   things created not creatures but [TS]

00:37:21   machines that are searching for like [TS]

00:37:24   straight lines and parham parallel lines [TS]

00:37:26   and things that are signs of of a heat [TS]

00:37:29   of life and if they find and destroy [TS]

00:37:31   planets so yeah same i think there's [TS]

00:37:32   something I think there's a reasonable [TS]

00:37:34   rational you know thing to say like if [TS]

00:37:37   you can travel between the stars and if [TS]

00:37:39   life just wants to expand then it's not [TS]

00:37:41   in its not implausible this game two [TS]

00:37:43   things the things that other [TS]

00:37:45   civilizations with tent would [TS]

00:37:46   specifically attempt to destroy all [TS]

00:37:48   their life because ostensibly other life [TS]

00:37:50   would spread into try to destroy them so [TS]

00:37:53   but those books are great and I thought [TS]

00:37:55   that's a little bit the protomolecule [TS]

00:37:56   was like the you know more of a horror [TS]

00:37:58   movie version of something that was very [TS]

00:38:01   sleek and and well-presented now that [TS]

00:38:03   pair of books I we should move on to our [TS]

00:38:09   fifth book I don't you like it here is [TS]

00:38:13   red deadline by mirror grant i have not [TS]

00:38:17   I I was living my life and being happy [TS]

00:38:20   yeah I was not okay so let's recap here [TS]

00:38:24   this is the sequel to feed which is a [TS]

00:38:26   book that was nominated for the hugo [TS]

00:38:28   award last year and and what's worse I [TS]

00:38:30   came in second [TS]

00:38:32   good don't even remind always job my [TS]

00:38:35   feed [TS]

00:38:37   suffice it to say an incomparable [TS]

00:38:39   history in our modest history of people [TS]

00:38:41   who listen to be uncomfortable i think [TS]

00:38:42   it goes down as the most disliked book [TS]

00:38:44   but we've ever discussed Scott and I [TS]

00:38:46   read it [TS]

00:38:47   we really really really didn't like it [TS]

00:38:51   and of course the sequel got nominated [TS]

00:38:53   and scott and i looked at each other [TS]

00:38:55   across the internet and said well I [TS]

00:38:57   guess we have to read it like and and we [TS]

00:39:00   both said what maybe it's good [TS]

00:39:03   well that may be going too far but I [TS]

00:39:06   wanted to be open-minded about it right [TS]

00:39:08   i wanted to be open-minded despite the [TS]

00:39:09   fact that I didn't like feed and as i [TS]

00:39:11   read deadline a few things occurred to [TS]

00:39:14   me i questioned my life now I have my [TS]

00:39:18   choices that led me to this point I'm [TS]

00:39:19   wondered why I was doing a podcast and [TS]

00:39:21   if there are questions I but what I was [TS]

00:39:25   reminded i was reminded of the things I [TS]

00:39:26   liked about feed em uh [TS]

00:39:29   yes in that in that the world that she [TS]

00:39:32   built in feed is interesting it's got [TS]

00:39:35   lots of interesting rules and some nice [TS]

00:39:37   texture to it it's this world where [TS]

00:39:39   there's been a zombie apocalypse but [TS]

00:39:40   it's kind of under control only sort of [TS]

00:39:43   not but it's not like a total apocalypse [TS]

00:39:45   it's just like they that their [TS]

00:39:47   infestations and occasionally there are [TS]

00:39:48   outbreaks and you've got to have your [TS]

00:39:50   blood tested all the time but they're [TS]

00:39:51   like working on it and there the [TS]

00:39:52   bloggers networks and they broadcast [TS]

00:39:55   their blogs and their videos if and you [TS]

00:39:59   know that all I like that part of it i [TS]

00:40:01   didn't want i want i don't really see [TS]

00:40:02   her world-building I mean I guess her [TS]

00:40:04   world building was good the way she just [TS]

00:40:07   explained all of the stuff that she [TS]

00:40:09   built into the world was really clumsy [TS]

00:40:11   the writing style really bothered me and [TS]

00:40:14   then there's some terrible characters [TS]

00:40:15   and feed that are just tell telegraphed [TS]

00:40:17   villains and things like that so here is [TS]

00:40:19   so as i read i was reminded of the good [TS]

00:40:20   and the bad about feelings and I was [TS]

00:40:23   really the best thing about feed so this [TS]

00:40:25   is a spoiler so if you haven't read [TS]

00:40:26   speed and you you want to read it you [TS]

00:40:30   should not listen to what I'm about to [TS]

00:40:32   say right uh so the main character [TS]

00:40:35   narrator fee scenario here someone who [TS]

00:40:38   you think I cannot die [TS]

00:40:40   does in fact I think it's infected [TS]

00:40:41   becomes a zombie and her brother shoots [TS]

00:40:44   her in the back of the head [TS]

00:40:45   yes which is is an amazing choice and it [TS]

00:40:48   was it was a I give her full credit for [TS]

00:40:51   writing that it was fantastic best part [TS]

00:40:54   of feed the rest of it was complete and [TS]

00:40:56   total crap and i would like the time i [TS]

00:41:00   spent reading it back but it's as [TS]

00:41:02   instead I've rested well how so [TS]

00:41:06   so Scott what I can't let see what we [TS]

00:41:08   can agree on here i thought this was a [TS]

00:41:11   better book than feet i will agree to [TS]

00:41:13   that although very low bar [TS]

00:41:15   yeah but it is it is a low bar so here's [TS]

00:41:18   the think I feel like she did it I feel [TS]

00:41:21   like the there is there isn't a stock [TS]

00:41:23   villainous character like the like the [TS]

00:41:27   the conservative Republican vice [TS]

00:41:30   president guy who had a mustache and did [TS]

00:41:33   twist it [TS]

00:41:34   I I it's true i thought that was better [TS]

00:41:36   I thought then learned snidely whiplash [TS]

00:41:38   she didn't do what she did in the first [TS]

00:41:40   book where little [TS]

00:41:41   really you know you'd be in the middle [TS]

00:41:43   of a conversation and then she'd go away [TS]

00:41:45   and tell you about her world building 44 [TS]

00:41:47   pages and then come back to the [TS]

00:41:48   conversation I felt like just reset the [TS]

00:41:50   world up and yes he did a little but you [TS]

00:41:53   know and what she did drop in was not as [TS]

00:41:55   as have painfully inserted it was it was [TS]

00:41:59   a little more natural true and teacup [TS]

00:42:02   Bulldogs for acute you get right right [TS]

00:42:05   which is all part of the thing that [TS]

00:42:07   that's the episode with that we [TS]

00:42:08   discussed it was called zombie Marmaduke [TS]

00:42:10   because the idea is that if dogs get too [TS]

00:42:12   big then they go into zombie they become [TS]

00:42:15   zombie dogs so you can only have tiny [TS]

00:42:17   dogs tiny animals many many dogs [TS]

00:42:20   yeah yeah and so some other than so the [TS]

00:42:22   command characters brother is the [TS]

00:42:24   narrator for this we we have this story [TS]

00:42:27   where they are discovering that there's [TS]

00:42:29   a conspiracy and below zombie-related [TS]

00:42:32   conspiracy in the CDC who the CDC [TS]

00:42:35   they're besties I've never trusted the [TS]

00:42:37   city's no you can't they say they're [TS]

00:42:38   going to cure us of things but don't [TS]

00:42:40   believe them [TS]

00:42:41   don't believe him first you know I i [TS]

00:42:43   read the whole thing I I got to the end [TS]

00:42:47   and I didn't die i thought you know I [TS]

00:42:53   thought some of it was interesting I [TS]

00:42:54   thought someone was bizarre we had more [TS]

00:42:55   of the this very straight i mean the [TS]

00:42:58   brother and sister were adopted so [TS]

00:43:00   they're not genetically related know and [TS]

00:43:02   she won't come out and say that they [TS]

00:43:04   basically had sex with each other and [TS]

00:43:07   and it's implied but they are it the [TS]

00:43:10   amount of mooning that goes on about [TS]

00:43:12   about over one another and about him [TS]

00:43:15   about his dead sister is it is our and [TS]

00:43:17   unconcernedly and then there's a scene [TS]

00:43:20   in this book in which he is so this [TS]

00:43:23   isn't this is working to spoil this yes [TS]

00:43:25   sir [TS]

00:43:26   you want to read this just stop [TS]

00:43:27   listening now and never come back never [TS]

00:43:29   come back to stop us take forever [TS]

00:43:31   because you should not be this book but [TS]

00:43:35   if you do and you don't want to be [TS]

00:43:36   spoiled you should stop listening now so [TS]

00:43:38   he has sex with some other chick in the [TS]

00:43:40   book yes and of course he he calls out [TS]

00:43:43   his sister's name in the forest set [TS]

00:43:46   which is wrong on many levels because [TS]

00:43:48   it's cheap and b it is disgusting [TS]

00:43:53   so [TS]

00:43:54   I was both disgusted and appalled as a [TS]

00:43:57   reader and as someone who writes in that [TS]

00:44:01   she used such a cheap and predictable [TS]

00:44:02   thing [TS]

00:44:03   yeah yeah you know so also I got it I [TS]

00:44:06   got to say though there's a there's this [TS]

00:44:07   affectation there there's only one poke [TS]

00:44:09   him with a stick in this which was all [TS]

00:44:11   in the first book is all about yesterday [TS]

00:44:13   they are I I made note of for the first [TS]

00:44:16   I have some notes that i didn't want to [TS]

00:44:19   forget but mother that's what I wanted [TS]

00:44:21   to talk about a c-collar income a list [TS]

00:44:23   of the 50 name is a great detail about [TS]

00:44:25   what about this character drinking [TS]

00:44:27   drinking coke and I ok the idea is that [TS]

00:44:30   he's talking to his dead sister in his [TS]

00:44:31   head because she's in his head like [TS]

00:44:33   smoke inside dr. McCoy's head and star [TS]

00:44:35   trek 3 or something like that right [TS]

00:44:37   she's in his head but far worse but far [TS]

00:44:39   worse and he keeps drinking coke because [TS]

00:44:42   she liked to drink Coke and it's this [TS]

00:44:44   weird affectation and the amount of time [TS]

00:44:46   spent detailing him opening and drinking [TS]

00:44:49   soda and or coffee [TS]

00:44:51   he's honoring his sister by drinking [TS]

00:44:53   soda but it's like this this book might [TS]

00:44:55   as well come with a six pack of coke [TS]

00:44:58   just like as part of the tree book at [TS]

00:45:00   that would bring some redeeming quality [TS]

00:45:02   to it because I at least have some coke [TS]

00:45:04   but yeah and that was annoying and so I [TS]

00:45:08   mentioned about Leviathan wakes Miller [TS]

00:45:11   uh you know imagining that the the dead [TS]

00:45:14   girl is speaking to him and I said that [TS]

00:45:16   that was done I think better than the [TS]

00:45:19   similar plot device that was in this [TS]

00:45:23   book and that's because every time he [TS]

00:45:27   hears a George's voice he thinks to [TS]

00:45:30   himself oh I am crazy and I am hearing [TS]

00:45:33   my dead sister and that is crazy heat [TS]

00:45:35   that she's just says that over and over [TS]

00:45:37   again [TS]

00:45:38   yeah at a certain point you think you [TS]

00:45:40   know what you could just have him here [TS]

00:45:41   his sister's voice and we the reader [TS]

00:45:45   will figure out that he's probably a [TS]

00:45:48   little crazy crazy [TS]

00:45:49   yeah you don't yes we have the scene [TS]

00:45:51   every chapter where he says something [TS]

00:45:52   and somebody goes hot what like they've [TS]

00:45:54   been with this guy how long now how do [TS]

00:45:56   they not know I mean it's clear he's [TS]

00:45:58   talking to his sister I think everybody [TS]

00:46:00   got it then there's so there's a part of [TS]

00:46:02   like where they go visit this crazy [TS]

00:46:03   scientist who has this lab that's like a [TS]

00:46:05   rogue lab and they're trying to research [TS]

00:46:06   the [TS]

00:46:07   zombie virus i liked it I liked that [TS]

00:46:09   part and when they leave they basically [TS]

00:46:11   like blow it up because they can't be [TS]

00:46:12   they have to go somewhere else now [TS]

00:46:14   thanks for coming and ruined it we gotta [TS]

00:46:15   blow this place up now I like that you [TS]

00:46:18   know that the but the the whole CDC [TS]

00:46:20   thing I mean yeah it's a very very much [TS]

00:46:22   i always conspiracy but the thing that [TS]

00:46:23   really got me about it is but you know [TS]

00:46:25   what ok first off it seems odd to me [TS]

00:46:29   that there's this there's a lot of [TS]

00:46:30   revelation of like oh do you know what [TS]

00:46:32   this means [TS]

00:46:33   mm no and then it goes for several [TS]

00:46:35   chapters and then you very slowly figure [TS]

00:46:37   out what it means when it might be [TS]

00:46:38   actually quite clear what it means and [TS]

00:46:40   you could say it and we can move on and [TS]

00:46:42   then it also seems strange that there [TS]

00:46:45   seems to have been very little effort to [TS]

00:46:47   actually for anybody to learn anything [TS]

00:46:50   about the zombie virus apparently in [TS]

00:46:51   order for these want to happen which [TS]

00:46:53   doesn't seem very realistic to me that [TS]

00:46:56   after all these years suddenly there's a [TS]

00:46:57   crack in the case where somebody's [TS]

00:46:59   notice something about the zombie virus [TS]

00:47:01   that's incredibly important to it so [TS]

00:47:04   there's that and then the other part is [TS]

00:47:05   feed the whole end of feed is that the [TS]

00:47:09   guy who worked with them becomes the [TS]

00:47:11   vice president of the United States and [TS]

00:47:14   they were closely with the guy who [TS]

00:47:15   becomes the president of the united [TS]

00:47:16   states so in this book [TS]

00:47:18   these people have amazing connections in [TS]

00:47:21   the US government and yet at several [TS]

00:47:24   points [TS]

00:47:24   there's a well we can't really call him [TS]

00:47:26   now he's busy [TS]

00:47:28   why is the guy we have been out here [TS]

00:47:30   about Holly most important thing that is [TS]

00:47:32   not gonna happen [TS]

00:47:34   yeah yeah oh it might be a conspiracy [TS]

00:47:36   involving those real truth behind the [TS]

00:47:39   zombie virus and that it might not [TS]

00:47:40   actually be fatal and there's always [TS]

00:47:43   lots of other things we learned to and [TS]

00:47:44   the CDC is controlling everybody in the [TS]

00:47:45   puppet masters but you know we know the [TS]

00:47:47   vice president the president personally [TS]

00:47:48   and save their lives on numerous [TS]

00:47:50   occasions now and let's not bother them [TS]

00:47:52   they're probably busy with legislation [TS]

00:47:54   or something right here there's a new [TS]

00:47:57   green act okay working on so since we're [TS]

00:47:59   keeping the spoilers [TS]

00:48:01   here's the here's the worst part about [TS]

00:48:02   the hook which is I like the fact that [TS]

00:48:05   he talks to Georgia is his sister [TS]

00:48:07   because it's like well I killed her in [TS]

00:48:09   the previous book but I'm gonna tell her [TS]

00:48:12   how she's still in it right you can [TS]

00:48:13   remember her and he's internalizing [TS]

00:48:14   that's interesting [TS]

00:48:15   and even though i think it was [TS]

00:48:16   ham-fisted I thought it was a good [TS]

00:48:19   choice and I [TS]

00:48:20   hey chip bring the character bed right [TS]

00:48:22   right and i like it sounded like the [TS]

00:48:23   world but in the end of the book is [TS]

00:48:25   because I said we've been set up because [TS]

00:48:28   the carrot one character comes to them [TS]

00:48:29   and and she's supposed to be dead but [TS]

00:48:31   they found her clone [TS]

00:48:33   oh and i will tell you once I heard the [TS]

00:48:35   word clone I thought man she is not [TS]

00:48:37   going to do this issue and the last [TS]

00:48:39   chapter of the book is that uh that the [TS]

00:48:42   dead character from the first book [TS]

00:48:44   Georgia wakes up in like the CDC and his [TS]

00:48:47   wife and that's an eye I so bold 3 [TS]

00:48:50   through the e-book across the room at [TS]

00:48:52   that moment didn't you Scott I got this [TS]

00:48:54   book from the library because I refused [TS]

00:48:55   to pay for its I got it might mean with [TS]

00:48:59   my Hugo nomination payment so i got i [TS]

00:49:02   was i was hopeful that it would be [TS]

00:49:04   better but I was starts better it is [TS]

00:49:06   better is but that's true it is better [TS]

00:49:08   and I end it should point out that you [TS]

00:49:11   know we criticize these things and I'm [TS]

00:49:12   sure she worked very hard on it and [TS]

00:49:14   ensure she loves this and she has she [TS]

00:49:17   has a lot of fans [TS]

00:49:18   she's left fans and so I I appreciate [TS]

00:49:21   her effort but I do not appreciate the [TS]

00:49:23   final problem no I i was trying to Scott [TS]

00:49:26   at I was trying to think of this has [TS]

00:49:27   become sort of famous that we don't like [TS]

00:49:29   these books I was trying to think about [TS]

00:49:31   why I don't like it and why other people [TS]

00:49:35   like it and I it because it's [TS]

00:49:36   fascinating to me that she has a [TS]

00:49:37   following you got nominated for the best [TS]

00:49:39   novel two years in a row this series has [TS]

00:49:41   got nominated so why she has a following [TS]

00:49:44   she kids like zombies people like [TS]

00:49:47   zombies people do like zombies and she [TS]

00:49:49   really like somebody's the setting is [TS]

00:49:51   fun right there there's it's this kind [TS]

00:49:54   of wacky bloggers and zombies and it's [TS]

00:49:56   an interesting combination that you have [TS]

00:49:58   another for another thing about the the [TS]

00:50:00   subfloor soso the whole one of the main [TS]

00:50:03   premises of the book right is that the [TS]

00:50:05   mainstream media is ineffectual now [TS]

00:50:07   nobody pays attention to it it's all [TS]

00:50:09   bloggers bloggers are cool [TS]

00:50:11   everybody gets their news from bloggers [TS]

00:50:13   we are hit over the head time time again [TS]

00:50:15   bloggers are where you get your [TS]

00:50:17   information from [TS]

00:50:18   yeah because the mainstream media is is [TS]

00:50:21   no good right [TS]

00:50:22   if they exist at all I mean if they [TS]

00:50:23   existed and then so this thing happens [TS]

00:50:25   and there's this big like a cloud that's [TS]

00:50:28   turning people into zombies right and [TS]

00:50:31   you the [TS]

00:50:33   in characters are a group of like the [TS]

00:50:35   most world-famous bloggers and they are [TS]

00:50:38   sitting in a house watching the [TS]

00:50:41   mainstream media right however the [TS]

00:50:43   biggest story that's happening and I was [TS]

00:50:46   like wait that's the ascii Annika yeah [TS]

00:50:48   why aren't they read blogs you have to [TS]

00:50:51   be consistent with euro and why they [TS]

00:50:53   should me there watching TV it doesn't [TS]

00:50:55   make any sense [TS]

00:50:56   alright so so if i don't know why i'm [TS]

00:50:58   talking like this so so so I so I'm [TS]

00:51:02   trying to understand why people like and [TS]

00:51:03   i think it is the setting and the [TS]

00:51:04   concepts involved in its fun and and all [TS]

00:51:07   that and then I was trying to think why [TS]

00:51:08   don't i like it and as I'm reading it [TS]

00:51:11   I'm thinking okay what is it about this [TS]

00:51:12   that bugs me and and you know in the [TS]

00:51:15   first book it was some of the cardboard [TS]

00:51:17   characters and there are a lot of there [TS]

00:51:18   are a lot of cardboard characters in [TS]

00:51:19   this to the know that some of the [TS]

00:51:23   dialogue is I mean it's really clunky [TS]

00:51:25   and I I think bottom line is I don't [TS]

00:51:28   like her writing style i think the plot [TS]

00:51:30   is kind of bizarre and and not very good [TS]

00:51:33   the the dialogue isn't very good but [TS]

00:51:36   shit the world is interesting right and [TS]

00:51:38   I i think so i think the success of [TS]

00:51:40   these books has a lot to do with [TS]

00:51:41   interesting world and a few kind of [TS]

00:51:44   dynamic characters at the center of the [TS]

00:51:46   brother and the sister and they're [TS]

00:51:47   fighting for you know what's right and [TS]

00:51:48   yeah you know and as far as i know this [TS]

00:51:50   is like the Citizen Kane of zombie [TS]

00:51:52   fiction I i don't mean they're not a lot [TS]

00:51:55   of great I i have read a lot of zombie [TS]

00:51:56   books and maybe this is among the better [TS]

00:51:58   of the zombie books but but that that's [TS]

00:52:00   the thing that really I noticed about it [TS]

00:52:02   is that the i just i don't like her [TS]

00:52:05   writing style although i will say i [TS]

00:52:06   think it's better I think that it's [TS]

00:52:08   better than in feed so it is whether [TS]

00:52:11   we're in feet but I don't think it's a [TS]

00:52:12   good book [TS]

00:52:13   I don't think I don't hate it with the [TS]

00:52:14   fire of a thousand burning suns like a [TS]

00:52:16   hater feed it's only 500 burning suns [TS]

00:52:19   for me [TS]

00:52:20   yeah it's fewer burning suns that I had [TS]

00:52:21   to work with but I will say this if this [TS]

00:52:24   was the hugo award that next year join [TS]

00:52:26   us for our nebula award podcast I'm [TS]

00:52:28   going to just give up on the hugo War [TS]

00:52:29   III I completely well we just have the [TS]

00:52:32   incomparable awards next year that's all [TS]

00:52:34   yeah there you go and I will nominate [TS]

00:52:36   Mary grants next book 3 is out now with [TS]

00:52:41   a [TS]

00:52:41   I want to know how it is well I'd what I [TS]

00:52:43   went on with anyone so many of the clone [TS]

00:52:46   me just call the president in chapter [TS]

00:52:48   one and solve the and then it'll be done [TS]

00:52:50   yeah it's just yeah you know it's I [TS]

00:52:53   don't know it works for some people and [TS]

00:52:54   that's great i don't really understand [TS]

00:52:56   why other than maybe just the setting is [TS]

00:52:58   fun but it for me and I you know I read [TS]

00:53:01   lots of different stuff i I'm not a [TS]

00:53:03   snooty like oh well it must be a [TS]

00:53:05   beautiful art for me to read it's just I [TS]

00:53:07   just don't think is very good so anyway [TS]

00:53:09   I read lots of novels that are just fun [TS]

00:53:12   and obviously this is what this novel is [TS]

00:53:14   supposed to be it must be a fun story [TS]

00:53:16   right and i buy me my other problem with [TS]

00:53:19   this book is and then i'll stop your [TS]

00:53:22   other other other other other problem [TS]

00:53:25   yes so if the whole thing right zombies [TS]

00:53:28   it's a big deal right there they're an [TS]

00:53:30   important part of this world are and how [TS]

00:53:33   many zombies are in this book probably [TS]

00:53:34   like to where are the zombies in this [TS]

00:53:37   stupid book that was my plan today they [TS]

00:53:40   have the zombie outbreak at they're at [TS]

00:53:42   their headquarters in oakland right i [TS]

00:53:45   would begin to get fire bond at the very [TS]

00:53:46   beginning and then lots of Grandma and [TS]

00:53:49   then and then there and then there's the [TS]

00:53:51   zombie attack when he's like on the road [TS]

00:53:53   or something right [TS]

00:53:54   yeah but that the they don't really do [TS]

00:53:56   anything with those obvious as far as [TS]

00:53:58   shit she didn't want to taste all the [TS]

00:53:59   zombie extra traction costs are very low [TS]

00:54:02   zombie ratio if I were known for their [TS]

00:54:05   in that it's like they're in a house [TS]

00:54:06   there in a lab there in the house learn [TS]

00:54:09   that house along getting groceries [TS]

00:54:11   although coke drinking coke and getting [TS]

00:54:13   groceries from the store I mean it'll [TS]

00:54:15   fronting a lot about them businesses [TS]

00:54:17   quantitative real-time is something is [TS]

00:54:19   coca-cola is easy answer it maybe who [TS]

00:54:22   knows and add I was that song you know [TS]

00:54:24   free coke I like diet pepsi myself but [TS]

00:54:26   hey whatever but i think that it will [TS]

00:54:30   drink my co can think of my distance [TS]

00:54:32   this discussion reminds me of a of in [TS]

00:54:34   futurama literally two cops you ever [TS]

00:54:36   seen like the entire series who [TS]

00:54:38   apparently do all the policing of things [TS]

00:54:39   like to zombies they were reading [TS]

00:54:41   yeah they're really outliers their dead [TS]

00:54:44   on their feet so if you do you like [TS]

00:54:47   zombies you may not like this book if [TS]

00:54:49   you likely if I like future blogger [TS]

00:54:51   government conspiracies involving viral [TS]

00:54:55   adji and the content of the messages of [TS]

00:54:58   transmission of various viruses and also [TS]

00:55:02   occasionally rapid cloning of people [TS]

00:55:06   into adult bodies which is completely [TS]

00:55:08   impossible love that anyway uh it's got [TS]

00:55:11   that this is I endorse it [TS]

00:55:14   this is felicia day going to play [TS]

00:55:15   Georgie and the movie version is that [TS]

00:55:17   the plan [TS]

00:55:17   I hope for her sake but there is going [TS]

00:55:19   to be apparently movie version feed so [TS]

00:55:21   good laughs all right so anyway deadline [TS]

00:55:23   I then i will be reading that sixth in [TS]

00:55:27   my palate below [TS]

00:55:28   no award hey I will not make clear that [TS]

00:55:31   i did not like deadline alright and i do [TS]

00:55:34   not break but could have been nothing [TS]

00:55:35   but in the spirit of openness and I just [TS]

00:55:38   how open-minded Scott my really are [TS]

00:55:41   yes it wasn't it was better than feed it [TS]

00:55:45   was better than feed if it's that is the [TS]

00:55:47   feed were the only book you had ever in [TS]

00:55:50   your life deadline not be good with me [TS]

00:55:53   the best book you ever read everything [TS]

00:55:55   was over it yes [TS]

00:55:56   wow that's amazing oh yeah okay and the [TS]

00:56:01   author can use them as a blurb on her [TS]

00:56:02   book yeah I'm sure [TS]

00:56:05   wow I want better Jenny would work [TS]

00:56:08   better as a feed [TS]

00:56:09   that's right can I put the I'm gonna get [TS]

00:56:11   my rubber and getting my uh my rubber [TS]

00:56:13   pole and i'm going to poke you guys [TS]

00:56:15   because you've been touching the third [TS]

00:56:16   rail and you can't let go and I'm gonna [TS]

00:56:19   not electrocute myself while I knock you [TS]

00:56:20   off the electrically let's talk about [TS]

00:56:22   the other other other books that that's [TS]

00:56:25   and nominated for a little earlier this [TS]

00:56:28   year just really quickly so the nebula [TS]

00:56:30   awards which are voted on by the [TS]

00:56:34   science-fiction writers so same were [TS]

00:56:35   awarded in may in fact yes [TS]

00:56:37   so the nominees and and and among others [TS]

00:56:39   one did it not willingly rightfully so [TS]

00:56:43   yes it hey so among others one embassy [TS]

00:56:46   town was the nominee will deserved uh [TS]

00:56:49   firebird by jack mcdevitt I can't [TS]

00:56:52   remember if i've read a lot of his time [TS]

00:56:54   not sure if i've read that one I've [TS]

00:56:56   never been ejected [TS]

00:56:57   it's always fun he it's a it's very [TS]

00:57:00   space opera is people spaceship so it's [TS]

00:57:02   that's Alex Benedict I don't know maybe [TS]

00:57:04   i have read that I know because they're [TS]

00:57:07   all the same but the greatest I'll [TS]

00:57:09   expenditures like Indiana Jones and [TS]

00:57:10   space and he finds it people think that [TS]

00:57:13   he's a like a relic like they did some [TS]

00:57:16   people think he's a thief because he's [TS]

00:57:17   stealing relics but he's actually [TS]

00:57:18   finding relics and he stumbles on [TS]

00:57:20   mysteries and he solves them and people [TS]

00:57:23   are you know there's sudden violence and [TS]

00:57:25   he barely escaped with his life and [TS]

00:57:27   they're fun they're like space opera [TS]

00:57:29   history books and he has these two [TS]

00:57:30   series in the Alex Benedict is that is [TS]

00:57:32   the the space archaeologists and then [TS]

00:57:35   there's the hutch series where there's [TS]

00:57:37   Priscilla Hutchins and she's a pilot and [TS]

00:57:39   there otherwise pretty much exactly the [TS]

00:57:42   same every time and the great i enjoy [TS]

00:57:44   them they're they're fun so I I own some [TS]

00:57:47   books by him but I have rhythm so maybe [TS]

00:57:48   i will put them in my rotation [TS]

00:57:49   yeah there for you I think you like them [TS]

00:57:51   just because they're fun you know fun [TS]

00:57:53   stuff i will sing God's war by Cameron [TS]

00:57:59   early i have no idea where nightshade [TS]

00:58:03   books it is it has a very striking [TS]

00:58:06   however a deadly government-funded [TS]

00:58:09   assassin [TS]

00:58:11   I don't know anyway so that's what that [TS]

00:58:14   was dominated mechanic a tale of the [TS]

00:58:17   circus true salty by genevieve valentine [TS]

00:58:20   i also have no idea no idea but that [TS]

00:58:23   title is very good [TS]

00:58:24   it's a circuit that maybe a pen name [TS]

00:58:26   could be the steampunk flavored circus [TS]

00:58:30   story other Zeppelin's I don't know but [TS]

00:58:34   you one can hope there are aerialists [TS]

00:58:36   they're all gala Zeppelin and they try [TS]

00:58:38   to fit as many clowns as they can Intuit [TS]

00:58:41   if it's a team that would be thousands [TS]

00:58:43   of them if they send in the clowns [TS]

00:58:45   Newstalk steampunk flavored and the [TS]

00:58:48   kingdom of god which I have not read but [TS]

00:58:49   is a Sowell by NK jemisin to the hundred [TS]

00:58:53   thousand kingdoms write that book i love [TS]

00:58:55   all three books i think the books are [TS]

00:58:56   there they're not perfect but they are [TS]

00:58:59   their unique there's a flavor to the [TS]

00:59:02   writing there's a beauty to it [TS]

00:59:04   his world creation there's romance [TS]

00:59:07   there's just I just think they're [TS]

00:59:10   terrific i'm actually reread them i [TS]

00:59:11   don't have time to read much and I've [TS]

00:59:13   reread two of the three and will be the [TS]

00:59:15   third is there actually rich enough [TS]

00:59:17   interesting enough very compelling [TS]

00:59:19   characters at the center in the middle [TS]

00:59:21   of all these gods and boards and things [TS]

00:59:23   like that great world great world she [TS]

00:59:24   created yeah it's a hundred thousand [TS]

00:59:28   kingdoms is the only one I've read but I [TS]

00:59:29   like that I like that a lot now is one [TS]

00:59:31   of my favorites from last year i guess [TS]

00:59:33   for two years ago that this is the [TS]

00:59:35   second the second and third amazingly [TS]

00:59:37   it's a trilogy in which the second and [TS]

00:59:39   third i would say are equally good or [TS]

00:59:41   better and there's some good payoff in [TS]

00:59:43   the third formatting read all three and [TS]

00:59:44   it's a fantasy series where there's like [TS]

00:59:46   gods that have been have been captured [TS]

00:59:48   by humans and they wear it so there's [TS]

00:59:51   like an all-powerful God and then [TS]

00:59:52   they're like gods have been captured and [TS]

00:59:54   there's a whole conspiracy about like [TS]

00:59:56   the gods and what they're trying to do [TS]

00:59:58   and uh you know you [TS]

00:59:58   and uh you know you [TS]

01:00:00   girl is brought out of the village [TS]

01:00:01   insurance actually has more to there's [TS]

01:00:03   more to her life than she expected which [TS]

01:00:06   is traditional and yet really [TS]

01:00:08   well-executed i like i like that just [TS]

01:00:09   meet me trying beautiful writing in very [TS]

01:00:12   early novelist don't think she's written [TS]

01:00:14   much and she bruises [TS]

01:00:15   yeah 3 very not very solid books that [TS]

01:00:17   will hold up over time I think and she [TS]

01:00:19   started a new series the first book is [TS]

01:00:21   available i can't believe it yeah she's [TS]

01:00:23   prolific to I'll gosh-darn her that [TS]

01:00:25   prolific pneus somebody in the chat room [TS]

01:00:27   is saying any of the gods had been [TS]

01:00:29   captured by other guys I thought it was [TS]

01:00:30   like the gods and the people working [TS]

01:00:32   together to trick the other gods into [TS]

01:00:33   there's sort of a war between there's [TS]

01:00:35   three essential recreation there's three [TS]

01:00:37   central creation gods and one of the [TS]

01:00:39   managers to kill one and imprison the [TS]

01:00:42   other and all of his allies right and [TS]

01:00:44   that's the theme of the first and the [TS]

01:00:45   second there's sort of a reversal of [TS]

01:00:47   fortunes and write primary God has to [TS]

01:00:49   cope with that and then the third [TS]

01:00:51   focuses on a low-key like characters [TS]

01:00:54   like a later God important it's always [TS]

01:00:56   BUTT STUFF very real very realistic in [TS]

01:00:58   the sense of feeling like actual human [TS]

01:01:00   interaction in the middle of all this [TS]

01:01:02   giant stuff happening okay and now to [TS]

01:01:04   the locus awards which are given by the [TS]

01:01:06   british science fiction magazine locus [TS]

01:01:10   and not by actual locusts that would be [TS]

01:01:15   so cool to have a winner every year of [TS]

01:01:17   the locust awards is berry blue which is [TS]

01:01:22   not so good so I'm so the winner was [TS]

01:01:25   embassy tab who interesting little [TS]

01:01:28   home-field advantage there for the [TS]

01:01:30   English with iphone wakes was nominated [TS]

01:01:33   11 22 63 by stephen king was nominated [TS]

01:01:38   and I enjoyed that book i enjoyed that [TS]

01:01:41   book quite a bit [TS]

01:01:42   mmm other people did not hope I wanted [TS]

01:01:47   the locusts did not hear this now it was [TS]

01:01:51   nominated that was very nice in that [TS]

01:01:53   Stephen King's time travel book we did a [TS]

01:01:55   whole episode about that where he goes [TS]

01:01:57   guy goes back in time to try and stop [TS]

01:01:58   the Kennedy assassination and it's all [TS]

01:02:01   very nostalgic and nice and then there's [TS]

01:02:03   this weird part where he goes back into [TS]

01:02:05   the future and Maine is part of canada [TS]

01:02:07   and that part isn't very good wish [TS]

01:02:11   fulfillment very values [TS]

01:02:12   rule 34 by charles stross was nominated [TS]

01:02:16   here i read that i read to you know [TS]

01:02:18   actually I i put a sort of fun even [TS]

01:02:20   though was unwieldy and it was better [TS]

01:02:22   than other as either I ready come he [TS]

01:02:24   really kept me going for quite awhile [TS]

01:02:26   with it so this is a this is a series of [TS]

01:02:29   his that set in a future Scotland that [TS]

01:02:32   sort of devolved from the UK and a [TS]

01:02:34   semi-independent or mostly independent [TS]

01:02:36   but it's part of this part of your [TS]

01:02:37   European Union and so you know it's [TS]

01:02:40   Stross doing some projection of like [TS]

01:02:42   near future technology and like the [TS]

01:02:44   police [TS]

01:02:45   it's a it's a crime story and the police [TS]

01:02:46   have like augmented reality where they [TS]

01:02:48   are they're looking things up making the [TS]

01:02:50   band you know [TS]

01:02:52   yes King has a little headset and know [TS]

01:02:56   that this the Scottish police woman has [TS]

01:02:58   you know they're all equipped with their [TS]

01:03:00   computers and stuff in there said [TS]

01:03:01   there's a decryption is this one with [TS]

01:03:05   the encryption pretended they find [TS]

01:03:07   people dead and they had all been dati [TS]

01:03:09   all dies it's the it's know the rule 34 [TS]

01:03:11   thing is as we know this from XKCD coin [TS]

01:03:14   that it's that any candy is going to [TS]

01:03:16   print dates that ok rule 34 for the [TS]

01:03:18   first few days ago if you could imagine [TS]

01:03:20   anything there's pornography of it on [TS]

01:03:22   here and so the rule 34 squad the [TS]

01:03:24   informant a rule 34 squad in this [TS]

01:03:26   Scottish police force is sort of [TS]

01:03:28   policing the internet for stuff that's [TS]

01:03:29   you know beyond the pale and try to [TS]

01:03:31   figure out three or if it's there [TS]

01:03:32   checking out me and all kinds of crap [TS]

01:03:34   and what essentially happens it's like [TS]

01:03:36   right i mean you know i'm going to the [TS]

01:03:37   spoiler here's like road computer [TS]

01:03:39   software developed enough intelligence [TS]

01:03:40   to sort of influenced a lot of outcomes [TS]

01:03:43   and kill off bad people and all the [TS]

01:03:46   people might shut it down and there's a [TS]

01:03:48   really weird thing about credit default [TS]

01:03:49   swaps happening in a breakaway republic [TS]

01:03:52   right have to dump the debt onto evil [TS]

01:03:55   binders like there's like a shell [TS]

01:03:56   country where like the big country has [TS]

01:03:59   taken part the poor part of it and and [TS]

01:04:02   and made it be independent and put all [TS]

01:04:04   its dead inside it which is a great idea [TS]

01:04:07   is it was like why is this not happened [TS]

01:04:10   yet that some countries done it and then [TS]

01:04:11   they then they all vote for being merged [TS]

01:04:13   back with a big country shut all the [TS]

01:04:15   debt and the country solvent again while [TS]

01:04:17   the bankers take the ticket the shorts [TS]

01:04:19   is it was a revenge fantasy games [TS]

01:04:21   bankers and it's really cool villainous [TS]

01:04:23   character who [TS]

01:04:24   whoo-hoo we follow who like is killing [TS]

01:04:28   people and he he's he's really messed up [TS]

01:04:32   like he's he's a very disturbing kind of [TS]

01:04:35   character but fascinating in his own way [TS]

01:04:37   and you some brain chemistry drugs to [TS]

01:04:39   keep him on to keep himself under [TS]

01:04:40   control then you lose control and yeah [TS]

01:04:43   yeah you know is that the other book the [TS]

01:04:45   Leviathan wakes there's also a character [TS]

01:04:47   that one of the evil that a big evil guy [TS]

01:04:48   there's a bit about his eyes being dead [TS]

01:04:51   like the eyes of a shark and I think [TS]

01:04:52   that's also if the line isn't in rule 34 [TS]

01:04:55   there's something about it as writers [TS]

01:04:56   like to use sociopaths because you can [TS]

01:04:59   have them do improbable horrible things [TS]

01:05:01   and without my motivation right so I so [TS]

01:05:04   I thought there were lots of interesting [TS]

01:05:05   bits in rule 34 but like halting state [TS]

01:05:07   which is the one with the encryption [TS]

01:05:09   breach [TS]

01:05:10   I feel like it's I feel strangely [TS]

01:05:12   disconnected from the strong stuff I [TS]

01:05:14   feel like I you know there's not really [TS]

01:05:15   much of an emotional connection I I it's [TS]

01:05:18   a parade of interesting near future [TS]

01:05:21   technical like technological speculation [TS]

01:05:24   and I like that about it but the [TS]

01:05:26   characters are you know that there's [TS]

01:05:29   some interesting characters it just it [TS]

01:05:31   just didn't I don't know I I didn't feel [TS]

01:05:33   it I I i appreciated it as a piece of [TS]

01:05:38   speculation but I didn't like it as a [TS]

01:05:41   story I guess is what I'd say and I feel [TS]

01:05:44   that way about a lot of strong enough [TS]

01:05:46   yeah that's sort of the best that is [TS]

01:05:48   your theme that is he strong smell theme [TS]

01:05:50   i think the same things to other [TS]

01:05:51   stresses out great ideas but i don't get [TS]

01:05:53   any emotional connection to it it's very [TS]

01:05:55   mechanical even though it's very [TS]

01:05:56   well-constructed yeah yeah they do like [TS]

01:05:59   that i mean he has a lot to say about [TS]

01:06:00   the economic collapse in the stuff about [TS]

01:06:02   banks and lawyers and the lawyers for [TS]

01:06:04   the banks and the credit default swaps [TS]

01:06:06   and and the the shell country and all [TS]

01:06:10   the positive there's an episode of [TS]

01:06:12   Planet Money disguised as a sci-fi not [TS]

01:06:14   not no zombies in it tho those uplands [TS]

01:06:17   so it's just like deadline [TS]

01:06:18   I don't know and the children of the sky [TS]

01:06:20   diver nuvinci which is the sequel or [TS]

01:06:24   third book in the series of the deepness [TS]

01:06:26   in the sky and the fire upon the deep [TS]

01:06:28   right and i haven't read it I relish to [TS]

01:06:31   I'm radium i read the first two and i [TS]

01:06:35   liked him but it was a long time ago and [TS]

01:06:37   then he's done this third [TS]

01:06:38   looking I I just haven't I just haven't [TS]

01:06:40   gotten to it i like i like a lot of his [TS]

01:06:42   stuff and I haven't gone to it and then [TS]

01:06:46   yes Glenn was it was saying yes there is [TS]

01:06:49   a fantasy novel category for for the [TS]

01:06:51   locusts Lou they love their friends and [TS]

01:06:54   dance with dragons one that category / [TS]

01:06:58   among others which is outrageous [TS]

01:07:00   it is it is an outrage yeah and over [TS]

01:07:03   snuff by Terry pressure and left a book [TS]

01:07:07   and over the wise man's fear by Patrick [TS]

01:07:08   Rothfuss which was again like as John [TS]

01:07:11   siracusa said like a good book exploded [TS]

01:07:14   leaving little bits of good books scout [TS]

01:07:17   around a lot i think it is in fact good [TS]

01:07:19   book i enjoyed it too [TS]

01:07:21   syracuse crazy it's not so your [TS]

01:07:23   community what about stuff throughout [TS]

01:07:25   snuff i was convinced that practice was [TS]

01:07:27   going to kill off captain vines because [TS]

01:07:30   area Cratchit so this is a button is [TS]

01:07:32   there the Nights Watch is that it yeah [TS]

01:07:34   yeah yeah I like I've read guards guards [TS]

01:07:37   so I and terry pratchett is getting to [TS]

01:07:41   the end of his writing career [TS]

01:07:43   yes mhm and any book could be his last [TS]

01:07:46   so I was really afraid that he was going [TS]

01:07:48   to up the stakes and just finished vines [TS]

01:07:51   off completely [TS]

01:07:52   especially with a book called snuff sure [TS]

01:07:54   did he not [TS]

01:07:58   ok so i can i love i love that [TS]

01:08:03   yeah but you know you don't write fifty [TS]

01:08:05   or however many books he's up to now I [TS]

01:08:07   think kill off your protagonists yeah we [TS]

01:08:09   do you or M george RR martin would say [TS]

01:08:12   you do but true i guess you can if one [TS]

01:08:16   of your other protagonist his death also [TS]

01:08:18   nominated is deathless by Catherine in [TS]

01:08:21   valente I have not read that i read her [TS]

01:08:23   Hugo nominated book palimpsest a couple [TS]

01:08:25   years ago [TS]

01:08:26   oh yeah enjoyed that I thought I [TS]

01:08:28   disliked that a lot until I read haha [TS]

01:08:32   another blur for her book but I've Reds [TS]

01:08:35   I think I read something by plenty that [TS]

01:08:37   i liked the girl who circumnavigated the [TS]

01:08:40   early am so i don't know i don't and [TS]

01:08:42   then among others like I said lost that [TS]

01:08:44   category shade of the locusts I is [TS]

01:08:48   greater go back into hibernation they [TS]

01:08:50   should on the other hand in the four [TS]

01:08:51   this novel territory which I glad they [TS]

01:08:53   have night circus which we all really i [TS]

01:08:55   think one and ready player one that did [TS]

01:08:58   not which is justice and ready player [TS]

01:09:01   one didn't get nominated for Hugo word [TS]

01:09:03   so which is yeah well as we talked about [TS]

01:09:05   that that's up with a fight who is going [TS]

01:09:07   to be on the ready player one episode so [TS]

01:09:08   many of us wanted to say negative things [TS]

01:09:10   about it and i think i mentioned i was [TS]

01:09:12   on a podcast with only client of the day [TS]

01:09:13   it was a delightful and wonderful person [TS]

01:09:15   and I like very much so i hope this [TS]

01:09:17   adventure books I would like very nice [TS]

01:09:18   people write bad books it's her very bad [TS]

01:09:21   people right good books I wanted like I [TS]

01:09:24   want his future novelty better so they [TS]

01:09:25   may like that and I didn't say and I [TS]

01:09:27   didn't hate ready player one but I [TS]

01:09:28   wasn't on that podcast i-i-i as I as I [TS]

01:09:31   said several times i quite enjoyed being [TS]

01:09:34   shamelessly pandering to buy back so i [TS]

01:09:38   was on that podcast as i said i liked [TS]

01:09:40   ready player one very much and also [TS]

01:09:42   decline wrote a great fan script first [TS]

01:09:44   cool but her mother yeah that I like to [TS]

01:09:46   nobody wanting what's funny about these [TS]

01:09:48   podcasts is nobody remembers the person [TS]

01:09:50   who liked it [TS]

01:09:51   this is true this is true so there you [TS]

01:09:54   go that's a lot of award-nominated [TS]

01:09:56   novels I guess Scott Scott if you ranked [TS]

01:10:00   the hugo novels how would you how would [TS]

01:10:03   you rank them I among others [TS]

01:10:06   uh yes what would be the first 1i green [TS]

01:10:08   then i would place embassy town [TS]

01:10:12   yes uh Dance with Dragons Leviathan [TS]

01:10:16   wakes and I would just drop deadline off [TS]

01:10:19   yes no award and then they're like you [TS]

01:10:21   know I think we are in agreement I think [TS]

01:10:23   we are an exact agreement there i had [TS]

01:10:27   the honor of truth is not nice [TS]

01:10:30   Scott McNulty listen to him is right i [TS]

01:10:33   read a little bit of snow either you do [TS]

01:10:36   that you're very well-read Jason you you [TS]

01:10:38   and I have a similar reading taste I [TS]

01:10:41   think I think that must be the case [TS]

01:10:43   although I I guess what this means is [TS]

01:10:45   that i should get into historical [TS]

01:10:46   detective fiction and should you don't [TS]

01:10:48   know what you're missing out apparently [TS]

01:10:49   not if you like it [TS]

01:10:51   it must be good it's fantastic yeah [TS]

01:10:53   amazing and I also a read all of the [TS]

01:10:57   nominated short stories for the hugo and [TS]

01:11:00   there are some good short stories so if [TS]

01:11:01   you like short stories [TS]

01:11:03   check them out I read some of the fan [TS]

01:11:05   writing they were really good that's [TS]

01:11:08   good that Hugo's also always have the [TS]

01:11:11   dramatic presentation categories in this [TS]

01:11:14   year the warm form is Captain America [TS]

01:11:18   the last harry potter movie [TS]

01:11:21   Hugo source code r which is actually a [TS]

01:11:26   pretty good movie and the first season [TS]

01:11:30   of Game of Thrones which was submitted [TS]

01:11:31   as a long-form work which is going to [TS]

01:11:34   win the DVD set together commentary on [TS]

01:11:37   exactly [TS]

01:11:39   I i kinda like to go I I like source [TS]

01:11:41   code [TS]

01:11:42   yeah i would probably vote for Game of [TS]

01:11:45   Thrones I like a nightmare on to so who [TS]

01:11:47   I loved Hugo i love you go soak your [TS]

01:11:49   number one yeah I like I'm i like I saw [TS]

01:11:51   in 3d and didn't dislike the 3d martin [TS]

01:11:54   scorsese knows what he's doing he is a [TS]

01:11:55   pretty good director is me is that he's [TS]

01:11:58   been around the block and and we got to [TS]

01:11:59   say as somebody just said in the [TS]

01:12:01   chatroom Hugo must-win Hugo it's true [TS]

01:12:04   there anything about it must int the [TS]

01:12:07   eventual in this credibly scene 3 3d [TS]

01:12:10   movies one was alattar one was Hugo and [TS]

01:12:15   one was peanuts movie by vendors our [TS]

01:12:19   sermon movie and course those three [TS]

01:12:21   movies actually needed to land all aided [TS]

01:12:23   by 3d and you go I thought 3d version [TS]

01:12:26   they really could use some space so and [TS]

01:12:28   everything was a movie about moviemaking [TS]

01:12:30   and end my turn astral filmmakers and so [TS]

01:12:34   it's a it's a love letter to one of the [TS]

01:12:37   original filmmakers jalandhar million by [TS]

01:12:39   a master filmmaker and it shot in 3d [TS]

01:12:42   which is this new and strange movie [TS]

01:12:45   format by the master filmmaker it's very [TS]

01:12:48   meta and interesting and and it's nice [TS]

01:12:50   and the combined kids even liked it [TS]

01:12:52   social baron-cohen isn't it my kids [TS]

01:12:54   needed to learn about George Millie a [TS]

01:12:55   they did ya get you know parents should [TS]

01:12:59   really be there there when you've first [TS]

01:13:01   teach your children George Malley a [TS]

01:13:03   because you know they need guidance it [TS]

01:13:05   firm hand it's important and he fill [TS]

01:13:08   many early science fiction [TS]

01:13:10   yes he did so yeah they're gonna mean [TS]

01:13:12   see such a lovely fellow like I want to [TS]

01:13:14   be George 98 [TS]

01:13:15   alright happen i'm convinced that Hugo [TS]

01:13:17   must must win you must win and and then [TS]

01:13:21   for best dramatic presentation [TS]

01:13:23   there's the bunch of doctor who episodes [TS]

01:13:26   the doctor's wife by Neil Gaiman the [TS]

01:13:28   girl who waited a good man goes to war [TS]

01:13:30   and then the remedial chaos theory [TS]

01:13:33   episode of community we should excellent [TS]

01:13:35   that should have heard that's very good [TS]

01:13:36   and not an acceptance speech from one of [TS]

01:13:39   the winners at last year's hugo awards [TS]

01:13:40   which I gotta say what I gotta say I was [TS]

01:13:43   in my room [TS]

01:13:44   those guys were very nice what the hell [TS]

01:13:46   that's like when the Oscars keep winning [TS]

01:13:48   the Emmy for yeah that's exactly what [TS]

01:13:50   it's like I i was in the room they were [TS]

01:13:53   funny [TS]

01:13:54   ah what the hell so if I if I voted in [TS]

01:13:57   this category III would be a tough [TS]

01:13:59   choice between remedial chaos theory and [TS]

01:14:02   the girl who waited which I actually [TS]

01:14:03   think was the best episode by Neil [TS]

01:14:05   Gaiman will probably win because [TS]

01:14:07   everybody loves neil gaiman i love Neil [TS]

01:14:09   Gaiman to but you know what i think the [TS]

01:14:10   girl who ate it was a better episode so [TS]

01:14:12   you know the foot it was a flip between [TS]

01:14:13   the two the doctor's wife was a total [TS]

01:14:15   celebration of the whole who history [TS]

01:14:17   universe and the girl away it was a [TS]

01:14:19   great original spare drama that involved [TS]

01:14:22   that use the actor's exceedingly well so [TS]

01:14:24   different kinds of things with both [TS]

01:14:25   excellent i did not like that community [TS]

01:14:27   episode i thought i did very little to [TS]

01:14:30   expand on the idea of alternate [TS]

01:14:32   realities which I've seen a million [TS]

01:14:34   times [TS]

01:14:35   killjoy yeah yes I i liked it i I really [TS]

01:14:39   enjoyed that episode but you know if I [TS]

01:14:41   have fun at the boat i don't know [TS]

01:14:43   probably enjoy your six seasons and a [TS]

01:14:45   movie [TS]

01:14:45   yeah 3 seasons and then an extra season [TS]

01:14:48   where everybody's fired yay [TS]

01:14:50   save money everybody will be going to [TS]

01:14:53   classes and studying and every as free [TS]

01:14:55   single damned episode all right [TS]

01:14:57   that brings us to the end of our our [TS]

01:15:00   perusal of things that were nominated [TS]

01:15:03   for awards that we do every year [TS]

01:15:05   Oh what we do until next year Scott I [TS]

01:15:09   don't know Jason who what novel do you [TS]

01:15:12   think will win not which one you think [TS]

01:15:13   should win which one do you think will [TS]

01:15:15   win as well as the other person who has [TS]

01:15:18   read all of them [TS]

01:15:20   you know I'm so say hello Mike goodness [TS]

01:15:25   i'm gonna i'm gonna say George RR [TS]

01:15:26   Martin's gonna win [TS]

01:15:27   it's almost certainly don't use from the [TS]

01:15:29   the number of voters were going to vote [TS]

01:15:31   for him for the reason that they [TS]

01:15:33   probably all the novel's all [TS]

01:15:35   yeah that would be my guess is but my [TS]

01:15:37   hope is that Joe Walton will sneak in [TS]

01:15:39   there and of course my fear is that it [TS]

01:15:41   will be deadline but yeah that will be [TS]

01:15:44   unfortunate what so but yeah well [TS]

01:15:47   obviously we can read content later and [TS]

01:15:49   make it all work out [TS]

01:15:50   yes well if if John Waltons book doesn't [TS]

01:15:53   win then it will because the fairies had [TS]

01:15:55   to set up the timeline so that it didn't [TS]

01:15:58   win weezer we should say you know we [TS]

01:15:59   just need we need to have the [TS]

01:16:01   uncomfortable winners you know what are [TS]

01:16:02   after all the awards are over we pick [TS]

01:16:03   our own winners and I work are a couple [TS]

01:16:05   words to them [TS]

01:16:06   yeah but Martin's novels have apparently [TS]

01:16:09   never won a hugo well it may be one of [TS]

01:16:12   those Lifetime Achievement Award kind of [TS]

01:16:14   things [TS]

01:16:14   yeah and and the even though it's a [TS]

01:16:16   fantasy novel and it's sort of a sci-fi [TS]

01:16:18   category a Harry Potter novel one at one [TS]

01:16:21   point and I think was one of those kind [TS]

01:16:23   of tips at the Capitol Scott is [TS]

01:16:24   disgusted by harry potter star shouldn't [TS]

01:16:27   we wait till the last novel I mean we'll [TS]

01:16:29   all be dead by then [TS]

01:16:30   therefore the lord of the ring styles [TS]

01:16:32   the absolute yeah well they want to give [TS]

01:16:34   it to george RR martin while he still [TS]

01:16:35   alive and writing novels and claims to [TS]

01:16:37   be finishing them before everybody else [TS]

01:16:39   and I have to feel like this is we've [TS]

01:16:43   reached the kind of the height of the [TS]

01:16:45   crazy popularity of the games i could be [TS]

01:16:47   wrong and it could get even crazier [TS]

01:16:49   lemoore popular but I think maybe you [TS]

01:16:52   could it be I don't know III don't [TS]

01:16:54   understand how could but Broadway it [TS]

01:16:56   would seem it would seem that by the [TS]

01:16:57   time the next book comes out the show is [TS]

01:16:59   going to be probably winding down and [TS]

01:17:01   that seemed to be I think the wall the [TS]

01:17:03   wall the first season was very popular [TS]

01:17:04   and the book the new book came out I [TS]

01:17:07   don't know if they're gonna beat that or [TS]

01:17:09   the height of the hype but we could be [TS]

01:17:12   wrong that that show is is exceedingly [TS]

01:17:15   popular so it seems like the existence [TS]

01:17:17   of the show means he has to hurry up and [TS]

01:17:19   finish the series because yeah just [TS]

01:17:21   going to stop production on the show he [TS]

01:17:23   will run out of things [TS]

01:17:25   yes marriages my start writing their own [TS]

01:17:28   still hurry [TS]

01:17:29   well they might divert and then George [TS]

01:17:31   then George RR Martin's last book will [TS]

01:17:33   just be at [TS]

01:17:34   Avila's a which would be going to go [TS]

01:17:36   from online on this and just completely [TS]

01:17:37   diverge [TS]

01:17:39   ya know i like that i like him to have [TS]

01:17:41   to have the last book just be as seeing [TS]

01:17:44   on hpl be so great this is just a [TS]

01:17:48   novelization have a crossover with [TS]

01:17:51   beauty and the beast [TS]

01:17:51   yeah brilliant alright this was great [TS]

01:17:54   i'm glad that Scott I got some of our [TS]

01:17:56   rage out and then we appreciated many [TS]

01:17:58   other books that were good [TS]

01:18:00   yes so that's good rich cast and I i [TS]

01:18:03   highly recommend i'll put them in the [TS]

01:18:05   show notes i'll put links to the other [TS]

01:18:07   episodes where we discussed some of [TS]

01:18:08   these novels in more detail for those [TS]

01:18:11   who want to go back but this is great so [TS]

01:18:14   I'd like to thank my guess [TS]

01:18:16   Glenn fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

01:18:18   here and being so well-read thank you [TS]

01:18:21   I'm three-fifths well-read thank you [TS]

01:18:22   very much but the right three-fifths it [TS]

01:18:25   is [TS]

01:18:25   yes well done Monty Ashley was great to [TS]

01:18:28   have you on and talking about books this [TS]

01:18:30   was cool i I you know we can we had you [TS]

01:18:32   want for the game of thrones thing but [TS]

01:18:33   it's nice to have you back in and for [TS]

01:18:35   you to be so well-read as well it's [TS]

01:18:37   great i read all of those books on a [TS]

01:18:39   cruise ship two weeks ago [TS]

01:18:41   wow that's the way to do it good job [TS]

01:18:44   that was the that was the wilco no no [TS]

01:18:47   was that a wizards of the coast theme [TS]

01:18:49   that was the magic the gathering Cruz [TS]

01:18:51   was not an official Wizard of the ghost [TS]

01:18:53   wizards of the coast event but did have [TS]

01:18:55   many wizards of the coast employee [TS]

01:18:56   alright nice that's pretty cool [TS]

01:18:58   speaking as crews and strangely jonathan [TS]

01:19:00   coulton is on it just as a participant [TS]

01:19:02   not to mention and Scott McNulty of [TS]

01:19:07   course my partner in choosing good and [TS]

01:19:10   bad novel sleeping but thank you so much [TS]

01:19:13   for being back and and helping me [TS]

01:19:15   through my trying times with deadlines I [TS]

01:19:19   I blame you Jason I blame you [TS]

01:19:23   it's my fault again like I said ivory [TS]

01:19:25   I'm rethinking my priorities in life of [TS]

01:19:26   why am i doing podcasts where I'm [TS]

01:19:28   reading books like this and this and [TS]

01:19:30   that brings to a conclusion the final [TS]

01:19:32   episode of the uncomfortable goodbye i [TS]

01:19:34   resign despite because it is over [TS]

01:19:37   over our until next time when we'll talk [TS]

01:19:41   about Jonathan Coulton but I I refuse to [TS]

01:19:43   be on that podcast I refuse because we [TS]

01:19:46   already recorded my not on it that'll be [TS]

01:19:48   next week until then this is jason snow [TS]

01:19:51   for the incomparable signing off [TS]

01:19:54   we'll be back I'll forget about that [TS]

01:19:56   book a week and once it wins an award [TS]

01:19:59   which case how do we do I don't know I [TS]

01:20:04   don't know another age cast yeah it may [TS]

01:20:06   be a special and our obscenity from [TS]

01:20:08   being comfortable [TS]

01:20:09   it'll be fun to bleep out the packet [TS]

01:20:11   alright goodnight everybody thank you [TS]

01:20:13   for listening to be uncomfortable [TS]

01:20:17   [Music] [TS]

01:20:28   I'd like to think Monty for suggesting [TS]

01:20:30   zombie marmaduke and the cherry we can [TS]

01:20:32   name another episode the same way that [TS]

01:20:35   would be awesome but it wasn't going to [TS]

01:20:36   be Marmaduke two electric boogaloo I did [TS]

01:20:39   that to prove i'm still paying attention [TS]