The Incomparable

93: Monstor


00:00:00   the incomparable part test number 93 too [TS]

00:00:09   well [TS]

00:00:11   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:13   incomparable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

00:00:15   smell this is another edition of our [TS]

00:00:17   book club and I have two participants to [TS]

00:00:20   brave brave participants who are going [TS]

00:00:23   to join me to discuss two novels by [TS]

00:00:27   science fiction writer Paolo Bacigalupi [TS]

00:00:28   I said it [TS]

00:00:31   listen to me look I said his name now I [TS]

00:00:33   learned how to pronounce palla bicycle [TS]

00:00:35   loop his name because he wrote a book [TS]

00:00:37   called the windup girl which was [TS]

00:00:38   actually one shared the hugo award a [TS]

00:00:41   couple of years back for best novel and [TS]

00:00:44   I loved it and I voted for it and it was [TS]

00:00:47   excellent and he also wrote around the [TS]

00:00:50   same time a young adult novel called [TS]

00:00:52   ship breaker which one a whole lot of [TS]

00:00:54   awards most it was a finalist for the [TS]

00:00:57   National Book Award it won the Prince [TS]

00:00:59   award and the locus award which is a [TS]

00:01:01   sci-fi award for best young adult book [TS]

00:01:03   is a very very good book and has spawned [TS]

00:01:06   follow-up called the drowned cities [TS]

00:01:08   which was released i believe last month [TS]

00:01:11   very recently so it's a new release so [TS]

00:01:13   these are these are books in the same [TS]

00:01:15   universe they are not directly connected [TS]

00:01:19   except for one character which will get [TS]

00:01:22   to but I I think ship breaker is a [TS]

00:01:25   fantastic and we have talked about it [TS]

00:01:27   briefly on a couple of podcast before [TS]

00:01:29   Scott McNulty who joins me here [TS]

00:01:34   it was the first person to mention this [TS]

00:01:35   book to me and he got me to read it and [TS]

00:01:37   he said great things about it [TS]

00:01:39   Scott thanks for being here to talk [TS]

00:01:41   about it a little bit more uh oh I say [TS]

00:01:44   that uh his last name as a bacigalupi [TS]

00:01:46   right be sure i don't know if it's right [TS]

00:01:49   secondly bacigalupi bocce ball except in [TS]

00:01:52   my head whenever I read that's how good [TS]

00:01:54   it sounds a bicycle loopy but I can kind [TS]

00:01:56   of soup paci GL UPI is he's uh his [TS]

00:02:02   extraction I believe maybe italian but [TS]

00:02:05   he is is he lives in Colorado he's an [TS]

00:02:07   American who listen color and that other [TS]

00:02:09   Voice you heard was serenity caldwell [TS]

00:02:11   who volunteered to read ship breaker and [TS]

00:02:15   also to read the drowned cities which is [TS]

00:02:18   in the midst of doing so we will say [TS]

00:02:19   goodbye to her before we talk about it [TS]

00:02:21   so that she does not [TS]

00:02:22   that spoiled she can go read it when [TS]

00:02:25   horns for me and where does your sign to [TS]

00:02:27   dive i will i will dive underneath the [TS]

00:02:31   deep seas of my bed covers and read the [TS]

00:02:34   rest of the book like a a good reader so [TS]

00:02:37   the author which now I'm Scott give me a [TS]

00:02:40   complex i'm going to call bicycle loopy [TS]

00:02:41   but whatever you can call him what you [TS]

00:02:42   like Colin bacigalupi go ahead a but [TS]

00:02:46   paulo I'll take a loop [TS]

00:02:48   he is he is basically not just a sci-fi [TS]

00:02:50   writer he's like an eco sci-fi writer so [TS]

00:02:54   he writes these books that are about [TS]

00:02:57   their set in a world or or different [TS]

00:03:01   worlds but that they have something in [TS]

00:03:02   common which is this the idea that we [TS]

00:03:05   are living in an accelerated age and the [TS]

00:03:07   point of peak oil is coming and at that [TS]

00:03:10   point there's going to be an energy [TS]

00:03:12   collapse and and bad things are going to [TS]

00:03:15   happen to what we think of as modern [TS]

00:03:17   industrialized society and in the windup [TS]

00:03:19   girl we see one version of that and here [TS]

00:03:21   we see we see another where the United [TS]

00:03:23   States has basically been broken to bits [TS]

00:03:27   by the loss of oil and in ship breaker [TS]

00:03:31   we meet nailer and and what they'll [TS]

00:03:36   nailer and and his team of people who [TS]

00:03:39   are basically running salvage like crew [TS]

00:03:42   tearing apart ships and stay for for [TS]

00:03:47   their parts and their and their metal [TS]

00:03:49   which is not that far off from some [TS]

00:03:52   things that happen in the real world [TS]

00:03:53   when there are there's a place in i want [TS]

00:03:55   to say Bangladesh where they where they [TS]

00:03:58   tear apart ships for their mettle and [TS]

00:04:00   it's not that far off but it's happening [TS]

00:04:02   in the United States in a post you know [TS]

00:04:04   almost apocalyptic eco apocalyptic [TS]

00:04:06   United States not at for a young adult [TS]

00:04:11   book this is not like a young boys [TS]

00:04:12   adventures with his dog and his paper [TS]

00:04:14   out this his this is this is dark stuff [TS]

00:04:18   this is a the diana wynne jones for out [TS]

00:04:21   of young adult which I actually really [TS]

00:04:23   appreciate where it just it treats kids [TS]

00:04:26   you know teenagers as we know you're not [TS]

00:04:28   stupid we know that you enjoy a [TS]

00:04:31   well-crafted story just as much as an [TS]

00:04:33   adult does we're just going to take out [TS]

00:04:35   some of the [TS]

00:04:35   more violent aspects but even this even [TS]

00:04:37   this book has has its fair share of [TS]

00:04:39   violence [TS]

00:04:41   yeah yeah it's it's um you know it's [TS]

00:04:43   it's a tough world and there's violence [TS]

00:04:45   and there's a a really bad father figure [TS]

00:04:48   nailers father is a very gives Darth [TS]

00:04:52   Vader run for his money [TS]

00:04:53   very bad guy and they're in there on the [TS]

00:04:56   Gulf Coast basically except that the the [TS]

00:04:59   global warming because again a co-writer [TS]

00:05:02   the global warming has caused the Seas [TS]

00:05:04   to rise and so that there's an Orleans [TS]

00:05:08   to because the New Orleans is completely [TS]

00:05:11   gone and three Orleans yes there are [TS]

00:05:15   many say don't call the thorough Orleans [TS]

00:05:17   or lanes are many cities that are [TS]

00:05:19   drowned [TS]

00:05:20   mmm her house we'll get back to that but [TS]

00:05:23   um so I mean the starts though it it's [TS]

00:05:27   funny one of the things that I want to [TS]

00:05:28   talk about about the two books is which [TS]

00:05:30   one is which one is darker and I [TS]

00:05:34   actually keep going back and forth on it [TS]

00:05:35   in this one [TS]

00:05:37   you've got these uh these kids are into [TS]

00:05:40   these terrible conditions as scavengers [TS]

00:05:42   and and we meet when we mean Taylor he [TS]

00:05:46   almost dies right because he's he's deep [TS]

00:05:48   down in these narrow passages in the [TS]

00:05:50   ship and he falls into a into a tank [TS]

00:05:54   into a gas tank and thinks he's gonna [TS]

00:05:57   die but he ends up being a smart being [TS]

00:06:00   smart enough to save himself and you [TS]

00:06:02   know and and when he gets back to shore [TS]

00:06:04   it's not any better this is just kind of [TS]

00:06:06   a a chaotic environment where they're [TS]

00:06:08   working for for almost nothing and [TS]

00:06:11   there's a you know there's a fast [TS]

00:06:13   company above them that is that is sort [TS]

00:06:17   of far away and and it you know really [TS]

00:06:19   it's like a forced labor camp almost [TS]

00:06:21   it's just incredibly poor squalid [TS]

00:06:23   conditions so you know it's that I think [TS]

00:06:26   that's it's pretty rough stuff for [TS]

00:06:28   something that's that's a young adult [TS]

00:06:31   definitely I mean I i read a lot of [TS]

00:06:34   really really dark young adult books [TS]

00:06:36   growing up and I tend to prefer those [TS]

00:06:38   and I'd I mean I feel like most avid [TS]

00:06:42   readers tend to prefer something that's [TS]

00:06:44   a little more complex and a little less [TS]

00:06:46   black and white and heat I mean he does [TS]

00:06:49   a really good job [TS]

00:06:51   I didn't really realize until the end of [TS]

00:06:54   ship breaker that this was actually [TS]

00:06:56   meant to be a young adult book I because [TS]

00:06:59   the way that it was portrayed in the [TS]

00:07:01   language that was used i just kind of [TS]

00:07:03   assumed oh it's you know it's just a [TS]

00:07:04   book with younger characters and then [TS]

00:07:08   when i was looking stuff up in advance [TS]

00:07:10   this podcast was like oh this was [TS]

00:07:12   written specifically to be a young adult [TS]

00:07:14   book okay why I get that I think the [TS]

00:07:17   best young adult books though are [TS]

00:07:19   written like normal books they just [TS]

00:07:21   happened to star maybe slightly younger [TS]

00:07:24   cast wonder whether some you know [TS]

00:07:26   there's some language limitations and [TS]

00:07:28   ended the rally and I which is just [TS]

00:07:30   wrong and there isn't and there isn't [TS]

00:07:32   there isn't sex and that you know that [TS]

00:07:37   those are the like sort of defining it's [TS]

00:07:38   got to be kind of a PG but you can be [TS]

00:07:41   really you know really dark around those [TS]

00:07:44   two limitations Scott you have issues [TS]

00:07:46   with when you read something young adult [TS]

00:07:48   is it you know is it isn't that big a [TS]

00:07:51   deal or or does it doesn't matter [TS]

00:07:54   well I I generally do not like young [TS]

00:07:57   adult books mostly because i enjoy [TS]

00:08:00   reading I sort of said you up there [TS]

00:08:03   because i know i don't get w you know I [TS]

00:08:05   but generally despised young adult books [TS]

00:08:07   frankly mostly because i think that you [TS]

00:08:11   as Wren said they they tend to simplify [TS]

00:08:13   things and uh i enjoy reading books that [TS]

00:08:18   have complicated language and kind of [TS]

00:08:22   multifaceted plots generally that's not [TS]

00:08:24   to say i don't like a book with a quick [TS]

00:08:26   plot that you know is straightforward [TS]

00:08:28   because i also read a lot of mysteries [TS]

00:08:30   that generally are you know to figure [TS]

00:08:32   out who killed somebody and that's it [TS]

00:08:34   but it's not like 14 different things [TS]

00:08:36   are happening at once and then at the [TS]

00:08:37   end it all comes together [TS]

00:08:39   that being said I think that ship [TS]

00:08:42   breaker rises above the general cross [TS]

00:08:45   of crappy young adult books in that his [TS]

00:08:47   well written [TS]

00:08:49   yes it does is a plus yes and so that [TS]

00:08:52   keeps me engaged even though the plot [TS]

00:08:54   itself is fairly straightforward and I [TS]

00:08:55   have no problem with that [TS]

00:08:57   he manages to keep it interesting enough [TS]

00:09:01   and keep the pace very quick which I [TS]

00:09:04   appreciate [TS]

00:09:04   and there isn't kind of like you know [TS]

00:09:07   the young adult the kind of the trip to [TS]

00:09:09   the young adults the kid finds out he [TS]

00:09:11   has special powers that you know nobody [TS]

00:09:13   appreciates it but then he suddenly a [TS]

00:09:15   wizard and everybody is great and he's [TS]

00:09:18   going to save the world need a dealer is [TS]

00:09:20   not a wizard but no Clara fide he's [TS]

00:09:23   apparently quick he's a kid [TS]

00:09:25   yes he's talented smart kid but he's [TS]

00:09:28   just a kid I feel like I father issues i [TS]

00:09:30   add my shelf of good young adult books [TS]

00:09:33   Scott because I may have missed so when [TS]

00:09:36   I was a kid I was trying to think of in [TS]

00:09:39   preparation of this what young adult [TS]

00:09:40   books i read because both ship breaker [TS]

00:09:42   and drowned cities are you know marketed [TS]

00:09:45   as young adults and I was thinking to [TS]

00:09:46   myself why I don't know what age group [TS]

00:09:49   of young adult is but reading both of [TS]

00:09:51   them I wouldn't think that young kids [TS]

00:09:53   should really read them I don't know but [TS]

00:09:55   a young adult is usually at least the [TS]

00:09:58   way that I've seen it marketed is aged [TS]

00:10:00   like 10-11 to age 17 it's a pretty wide [TS]

00:10:04   range it's not for I'd say it's it's for [TS]

00:10:07   kids in like the higher grades and then [TS]

00:10:09   starting in middle school middle school [TS]

00:10:11   is usually the starting because I mean [TS]

00:10:14   most of the young adult books you know [TS]

00:10:16   you're talking about the tropes you do [TS]

00:10:18   get a little bit of the budding romance [TS]

00:10:20   but not necessarily full-fledged [TS]

00:10:22   Stephenie Meyer Twilight craziness like [TS]

00:10:25   I so II you've got to be a certain i [TS]

00:10:30   think i have a certain age to appreciate [TS]

00:10:32   that but well you know why a is this new [TS]

00:10:36   new ish category there's a i remember [TS]

00:10:39   when i first heard the concept was like [TS]

00:10:40   oh ok i guess that makes sense but you [TS]

00:10:42   know some writers don't write books that [TS]

00:10:45   are you know that have a lot of language [TS]

00:10:48   and have a lot of graphic sex and and so [TS]

00:10:53   it's interesting that now there's this [TS]

00:10:55   category that's sort of in the middle [TS]

00:10:57   there [TS]

00:10:57   and yet a lot of yaa stuff is also read [TS]

00:11:00   by adults and good young adult fiction [TS]

00:11:03   is perfectly good for adults right it's [TS]

00:11:06   not you're not reading and this is the [TS]

00:11:09   argument when you read Harry Potter and [TS]

00:11:11   i know that's a sore spot with Scott who [TS]

00:11:12   didn't like Harry Potter but those are [TS]

00:11:14   books that have become successful not [TS]

00:11:16   just because kids read them but because [TS]

00:11:17   adults read them and and you know good [TS]

00:11:20   good fiction in that slot is good [TS]

00:11:23   fiction and the problem is that i think [TS]

00:11:25   there's some writers who then say i'm [TS]

00:11:27   gonna i'm going to target this and I'm [TS]

00:11:29   going to dumb it down and that's when it [TS]

00:11:31   I I think maybe it breaks down and a [TS]

00:11:34   previous podcast Scott mentioned that [TS]

00:11:36   Ian McDonald who wrote a book that Scott [TS]

00:11:38   and I thought was fantastic last year [TS]

00:11:40   actually I think we both voted or voted [TS]

00:11:43   for it [TS]

00:11:43   my vote counted because i paid the money [TS]

00:11:45   and scott's boat didn't count but it [TS]

00:11:46   didn't for best for best novel for the [TS]

00:11:48   hugo awards in mcdonalds the Dervish [TS]

00:11:50   house you know he that's a fantastic [TS]

00:11:53   book and he wrote a young adult book [TS]

00:11:56   that Scott red and said was really bad [TS]

00:11:58   because I and I worry that he just sort [TS]

00:12:00   of said well its young adult I'm gonna [TS]

00:12:01   take my plot my intricate plots and make [TS]

00:12:04   them not intricate and simplify [TS]

00:12:05   everything and then it will be dumb [TS]

00:12:07   which is you know I don't know what you [TS]

00:12:09   want to know in a good book whether it's [TS]

00:12:11   young adults or not it shouldn't be dumb [TS]

00:12:13   i read through more or less the entire [TS]

00:12:17   young adult section at both my local [TS]

00:12:19   library and my local borders over a [TS]

00:12:22   course of like five or six years and [TS]

00:12:25   that while there are some books that [TS]

00:12:27   really stand out my memory and some will [TS]

00:12:28   probably bring up later on the podcast [TS]

00:12:30   as they relate to ship breaker [TS]

00:12:32   they were definitely like their arse [TS]

00:12:34   logs in in that in that category where [TS]

00:12:37   you just run into very very like you run [TS]

00:12:41   into somebody who wants to be Judy Blume [TS]

00:12:43   except with magic or with you know [TS]

00:12:46   post-apocalyptic sci-fi I and it just [TS]

00:12:50   doesn't it doesn't work so well but [TS]

00:12:52   there were plenty i mean even even [TS]

00:12:54   something that was fairly widespread [TS]

00:12:55   like animorphs which was clearly I mean [TS]

00:12:58   that was a a big giant series that had [TS]

00:13:02   its share and was written i can remember [TS]

00:13:04   that was written by a series of of [TS]

00:13:06   people are just one person but it was [TS]

00:13:09   you know it would have both [TS]

00:13:11   x where they would very clearly be oh [TS]

00:13:13   well we're actually this is just about [TS]

00:13:15   young people and young in situations and [TS]

00:13:18   not really dumb down language and then [TS]

00:13:20   there were other books in that series [TS]

00:13:21   which was just unbearable to read [TS]

00:13:23   because you're looking at this year like [TS]

00:13:25   I feel like this was a writing [TS]

00:13:27   assignment that i got in high score in [TS]

00:13:29   in like fifth grade [TS]

00:13:31   it's like bobbin Jeremy are going on an [TS]

00:13:34   adventure bad writing batteries [TS]

00:13:37   batteries bad well you know young adult [TS]

00:13:39   right I suppose young adults have young [TS]

00:13:41   adult protagonist that's part of the [TS]

00:13:42   deal although there are lots of [TS]

00:13:44   perfectly good fine you know [TS]

00:13:46   high-quality novels that that have young [TS]

00:13:48   adults as protagonists and-and-and it [TS]

00:13:51   you know we wouldn't look down upon them [TS]

00:13:53   for doing that it i do think that [TS]

00:13:56   there's a right like people are smelling [TS]

00:13:59   money from yeah especially because harry [TS]

00:14:00   potter rightness ago geez I gotta get [TS]

00:14:02   some of that and so you've got some [TS]

00:14:03   people who are reading good books and [TS]

00:14:04   some people who are trying to find a [TS]

00:14:07   market for you know that by writing [TS]

00:14:09   something targeted at the market that [TS]

00:14:11   they think might make them a lot of [TS]

00:14:12   money and i feel like when i was a young [TS]

00:14:14   adult there was not a young adult genre [TS]

00:14:19   well they worthy I mean there are things [TS]

00:14:21   that were kinda adult book i'm reading [TS]

00:14:24   juvenile science fiction right which was [TS]

00:14:27   like pulp stuff from the fifties I think [TS]

00:14:30   more than I mean they're like boys [TS]

00:14:33   magazines it but it wasn't like a [TS]

00:14:34   juggernaut that it is now and the people [TS]

00:14:37   are no it's very clearly labeled now in [TS]

00:14:39   a way that it i don't think it was it is [TS]

00:14:41   only really just started to go that way [TS]

00:14:44   when I was growing up like there wasn't [TS]

00:14:46   really even a young adult section in the [TS]

00:14:48   book store until I was 16 or 17 i want [TS]

00:14:52   to say i usually just kind of jump [TS]

00:14:54   lumped in with fiction and it was like [TS]

00:14:56   maybe a subcategory with infections like [TS]

00:14:59   people with young protect your books [TS]

00:15:01   with young protagonists rather than [TS]

00:15:03   young adults right right right i mean i [TS]

00:15:06   would just end up in the sci-fi section [TS]

00:15:08   and pick out a book and you know and and [TS]

00:15:11   it's it's a the split infinity by piers [TS]

00:15:15   anthony and i read that it's like oh god [TS]

00:15:17   they're people having sex in this book i [TS]

00:15:18   will read the next book now right so it [TS]

00:15:20   was you know that I I think that's part [TS]

00:15:22   of it too is this weird thing I keep [TS]

00:15:24   liking it too [TS]

00:15:24   PG rating it's I I that is some strange [TS]

00:15:27   part of this young adult thing is it's [TS]

00:15:29   it's a category where there's sort of an [TS]

00:15:32   implied cleanness of content which you [TS]

00:15:37   know III as a parent I appreciate that [TS]

00:15:40   but it's it's strange and so you end up [TS]

00:15:44   with books that are legitimately good [TS]

00:15:45   books and then you end up with books [TS]

00:15:47   that are that are not and ship breaker [TS]

00:15:49   which is again what we're talking about [TS]

00:15:51   is a good book it's I mean it's not it [TS]

00:15:54   didn't feel to me like it was a [TS]

00:15:56   watered-down a windup girl or something [TS]

00:16:00   like that it feels like legitimately [TS]

00:16:01   good books I story [TS]

00:16:04   ya know it just happens to have young [TS]

00:16:06   protagonists as the lead characters but [TS]

00:16:09   it is a story is a story where adults [TS]

00:16:11   exist and where some adults are very [TS]

00:16:13   good and some adults are very scary and [TS]

00:16:16   there are shades of grey whereas they [TS]

00:16:18   might not otherwise be yeah I'm chip [TS]

00:16:21   bigger actually reminds me of two books [TS]

00:16:23   I read when I was growing up there was a [TS]

00:16:26   book called the the ear the eye and the [TS]

00:16:28   arm which I think when a alda cot or a [TS]

00:16:32   newbery or something like that which was [TS]

00:16:35   sort of post-apocalyptic or i guess not [TS]

00:16:38   post-apocalyptic future world where you [TS]

00:16:41   get three people who are were a not even [TS]

00:16:45   guns for hire but like detectives for [TS]

00:16:47   hire and they have to go find am missing [TS]

00:16:49   a missing privileged girl and then also [TS]

00:16:53   a book by I think Karthik's called [TS]

00:16:55   shades children which deals with kind of [TS]

00:16:58   again the weird sci-fi post-apocalyptic [TS]

00:17:00   but also running from big bads and I got [TS]

00:17:04   a very similar vibe from ship breaker to [TS]

00:17:06   both of those two books where it's it's [TS]

00:17:10   a very dark world and you're talking [TS]

00:17:12   you're putting basically relatively [TS]

00:17:14   young children and even in shipwreck her [TS]

00:17:16   there's a there's a mention about just [TS]

00:17:18   how young you know [TS]

00:17:20   Naylor is and how he doesn't really even [TS]

00:17:23   recognize that fact just because he's [TS]

00:17:26   like well you know you're either light [TS]

00:17:28   crew or your or your heavy crew you can [TS]

00:17:31   either create a small enough to fit or [TS]

00:17:33   you're not and he's aged just getting [TS]

00:17:35   big enough that he's not going to be [TS]

00:17:37   able to be like [TS]

00:17:38   crew anymore exactly we don't even find [TS]

00:17:41   out these characters ages until over [TS]

00:17:43   halfway through that first book when [TS]

00:17:44   he's quite literally coming-of-age he's [TS]

00:17:46   getting to the point where he is he is [TS]

00:17:48   getting bigger and of course there's a [TS]

00:17:50   girl right there is a pretty girl [TS]

00:17:52   inner-city got in a wreck ship and [TS]

00:17:55   there's a 12 mm and you've had that [TS]

00:17:57   moment which is like who i kinda like [TS]

00:17:59   her something about her is different [TS]

00:18:03   than what you love then turn that on its [TS]

00:18:05   head though because I mean they find her [TS]

00:18:07   when presumably she's dead she's dead [TS]

00:18:10   and they try to cut off her fingers to [TS]

00:18:13   get her gold regular jewelry that's yeah [TS]

00:18:16   that's how they discover she's alive [TS]

00:18:18   it's a very it's turning on its head of [TS]

00:18:20   it the typical it's not really your [TS]

00:18:22   usual meet-cute yeah no not so much [TS]

00:18:24   hi you know we fell in love how do we [TS]

00:18:27   fall in love all I was sawing off your [TS]

00:18:29   fingers that's how I met my wife very [TS]

00:18:31   bloody story [TS]

00:18:32   thank goodness she woke up I don't think [TS]

00:18:35   she could keep her jewelry and you can't [TS]

00:18:37   exactly and i think that it was [TS]

00:18:39   interesting so one of the things i like [TS]

00:18:41   about this setting is he concentrates [TS]

00:18:44   obviously want to make a point about you [TS]

00:18:46   know eco-friendliness and how the world [TS]

00:18:49   is going to go to pot because yeah our [TS]

00:18:51   short-term thing friends us yes exactly [TS]

00:18:53   but then he shows there's a clear like [TS]

00:18:56   as you're reading it you think okay [TS]

00:18:57   everybody is just living in squalor and [TS]

00:19:00   then you realize know there's this whole [TS]

00:19:02   other world of people that have the [TS]

00:19:05   ships that have like Paris tales that [TS]

00:19:08   can go fast and go over the place and [TS]

00:19:10   have advanced technology that the other [TS]

00:19:12   clipper ships that span the oceans and [TS]

00:19:14   lakes high tech I really want a [TS]

00:19:16   clippership when end and the neda is is [TS]

00:19:20   a the child of these people who own [TS]

00:19:26   these big companies that have this money [TS]

00:19:28   she's she's the one that they meet and [TS]

00:19:30   when they're trying to cut off the [TS]

00:19:31   fingers and and she's like an heiress [TS]

00:19:34   basically 2a and God has gotten caught [TS]

00:19:37   up in a in a plot among the rich people [TS]

00:19:39   and so there and and was attacked but [TS]

00:19:42   you know she's never known you know she [TS]

00:19:45   in some ways which is funny she's kind [TS]

00:19:47   of our proxy in the sense that she is [TS]

00:19:50   from a world [TS]

00:19:52   where there isn't the kind of squalor [TS]

00:19:54   that is on the beach with the with the [TS]

00:19:56   ship breakers where you know where [TS]

00:19:58   things are really miserable and awful [TS]

00:20:00   and she has kind of no idea and and and [TS]

00:20:04   so she becomes our proxy except for [TS]

00:20:06   viewing it through the eyes of nailer [TS]

00:20:07   and we're looking at her thinking you [TS]

00:20:08   know who is this person and then [TS]

00:20:10   oh it's us actually that's who she has [TS]

00:20:13   just boiled and has anything she wants [TS]

00:20:15   and whereas he's incredibly poor and [TS]

00:20:18   fighting for survival [TS]

00:20:19   I actually really like how I'm not gonna [TS]

00:20:23   try and pronounce the author's name [TS]

00:20:24   Apollo the greats [TS]

00:20:27   but you're gonna be yeah you may have [TS]

00:20:30   mr. B mr. B yes but the eco integration [TS]

00:20:35   into the story [TS]

00:20:36   it kind of snuck up on me where i'm [TS]

00:20:38   reading this and I'm like man drowned [TS]

00:20:40   cities and city killer and you slowly [TS]

00:20:42   start to realize oh this is you know [TS]

00:20:44   this is the United States and you [TS]

00:20:46   realize oh it's because of crude oil [TS]

00:20:48   drilling but it's never it's never gone [TS]

00:20:51   out and explicitly said yes humans you [TS]

00:20:54   are bad you are destroying things [TS]

00:20:57   beware for there will come a day when [TS]

00:21:00   all of this comes you know there's there [TS]

00:21:02   are certain books it's better for that [TS]

00:21:04   yeah and it's just kind of like know [TS]

00:21:06   this is you know this is how it is [TS]

00:21:08   dropping and jam it down your throat and [TS]

00:21:10   actually there's a lot of here it's a [TS]

00:21:13   lot of stuff within this book in that [TS]

00:21:15   sort of manner which I really appreciate [TS]

00:21:17   it so nice to as a reader be able to [TS]

00:21:21   actually discover things for yourself [TS]

00:21:23   and not feel like the author is saying [TS]

00:21:25   yes focus on this for it will be [TS]

00:21:28   important in 50 pages from now feed ya [TS]

00:21:33   another one thing I hate more than young [TS]

00:21:35   adult books are preaching books that are [TS]

00:21:38   trying to tell teach me a lesson [TS]

00:21:41   overtly and and so this book is [TS]

00:21:44   obviously it has a theme and he he is [TS]

00:21:47   clearly a a an environmentalist but he's [TS]

00:21:50   not saying you know the characters don't [TS]

00:21:53   stop and say gee wouldn't have been [TS]

00:21:56   great if we had thought about this [TS]

00:21:58   before this all happened message to the [TS]

00:22:01   past [TS]

00:22:02   exactly you you're destroying us your [TS]

00:22:04   you cause this you cause to know that [TS]

00:22:07   simply its implicit and and but he did [TS]

00:22:09   it right there isn't a moment where they [TS]

00:22:10   turned the camera basically and say if [TS]

00:22:13   only you would you had saved your oil [TS]

00:22:16   and not know it I mean it really his his [TS]

00:22:20   whole deal here is to say I'm i built [TS]

00:22:23   into the world once you accept this [TS]

00:22:24   world exists you accept that we've [TS]

00:22:27   completely squandered you know [TS]

00:22:29   everything and this is the remnant sort [TS]

00:22:31   of the the you know hollowed-out remnant [TS]

00:22:34   of our society after we run out of fuel [TS]

00:22:36   and I just hope that I'm on the [TS]

00:22:39   high-tech part and I'm not yelling on [TS]

00:22:41   the clippership exactly you want to go [TS]

00:22:44   live in the midwest that's right don't [TS]

00:22:46   want another character in this in this [TS]

00:22:49   story is is a very sci-fi character [TS]

00:22:53   we've got these regular human beings who [TS]

00:22:55   are struggling to get along but that's [TS]

00:22:57   not all we are in a sci-fi novel and we [TS]

00:23:00   have two lamented who is an argument he [TS]

00:23:03   is a half man as they call him but he is [TS]

00:23:06   a creation from human dog hyena tiger [TS]

00:23:12   many other kinds of animal and he is a [TS]

00:23:15   he walks like a man [TS]

00:23:17   hamster yes right Mockingbird trout [TS]

00:23:21   yes a most mosquito leaner yeah exactly [TS]

00:23:26   he's every animal really um he is he is [TS]

00:23:29   a a walks like a man but he is a killing [TS]

00:23:32   machine he's he's smarter than people [TS]

00:23:34   and much more dangerous than people and [TS]

00:23:38   they meet him the art nailer and Annie [TS]

00:23:42   to meet him and he becomes a he becomes [TS]

00:23:45   their sort of traveling companion and [TS]

00:23:47   and helper and what's funny about it is [TS]

00:23:50   when he's introduced he's sort of you [TS]

00:23:52   know he's a monster [TS]

00:23:53   it's very much like the the [TS]

00:23:54   sort of you you meet the monster and [TS]

00:23:57   then you realize the monster may not be [TS]

00:23:59   as bad as the people and and dry [TS]

00:24:03   yeah yeah yeah because because they [TS]

00:24:05   always father Richard Lopez is really [TS]

00:24:07   really bad raising aside [TS]

00:24:10   yeah as a side note i find it very [TS]

00:24:12   interesting that all of the characters [TS]

00:24:14   have real names up into a certain age [TS]

00:24:18   where it's like all of nailers parents [TS]

00:24:22   generation has real names but nailer and [TS]

00:24:25   all of his crew folk to a certain like [TS]

00:24:29   of rage [TS]

00:24:30   yeah they all have things like naylor or [TS]

00:24:33   I mean even need it gets a lucky girl [TS]

00:24:36   you know right and you don't get the [TS]

00:24:38   sense that these are nicknames you get [TS]

00:24:39   the sense that these are actually these [TS]

00:24:41   are the names that they grew up with [TS]

00:24:42   everybody's open up [TS]

00:24:43   yeah but this it's like surnames are not [TS]

00:24:47   important anymore actual inventive [TS]

00:24:49   things are not important if they've run [TS]

00:24:51   out of names they are not a [TS]

00:24:54   non-renewable resources host yes its [TS]

00:24:56   post name apocalypse and uh huh [TS]

00:24:58   there's no more than anybody region [TS]

00:25:00   America reach peak naming and since then [TS]

00:25:03   it's all been downhill great Taylor [TS]

00:25:04   shortage of 2012 and mouse so tool is a [TS]

00:25:09   really interesting character because [TS]

00:25:10   what you know he is he does seem to be [TS]

00:25:12   this monster and maybe he is a monster [TS]

00:25:15   right and yet he is he helps them [TS]

00:25:19   he's an honorable you get the sense i [TS]

00:25:21   mean you're told that he is not like [TS]

00:25:23   other half men in fact when they go to [TS]

00:25:25   Orleans and they're they're like hiding [TS]

00:25:28   in the water trying not to be spotted [TS]

00:25:30   and there's like a squat that they're in [TS]

00:25:32   at one point and then there are there [TS]

00:25:36   are half men on the ship and and and you [TS]

00:25:39   know you get to see what the other [TS]

00:25:40   monsters are like and they are [TS]

00:25:41   completely subservient to their masters [TS]

00:25:45   and then there's tool who is he's like [TS]

00:25:47   the rebel he's like the one who went [TS]

00:25:48   wrong and he's a monster who is [TS]

00:25:50   rebelling and that's good because that [TS]

00:25:52   means he's not a monster [TS]

00:25:54   he's more than a monster and it's just [TS]

00:25:56   such a really interesting character that [TS]

00:26:01   that just kind of drops in and then he [TS]

00:26:03   you know he helps them out and they [TS]

00:26:04   cling to the back of railroad cars [TS]

00:26:06   as they travel along the countryside and [TS]

00:26:08   he he sort of whip them into shape which [TS]

00:26:10   is it's it's just a very interesting [TS]

00:26:12   character [TS]

00:26:14   I mean he's a he's a pseudo parental [TS]

00:26:17   figure wow what a parent yeah do I know [TS]

00:26:21   but actually the the whole idea of the [TS]

00:26:24   arguments and not having read more than [TS]

00:26:27   a hundred pages of the second book i'm [TS]

00:26:28   really curious to see where that goes [TS]

00:26:30   because tool does crossover is the only [TS]

00:26:32   community use the crossover character is [TS]

00:26:35   mia much more problem wasn't cool to [TS]

00:26:38   leave out of the second book clearly [TS]

00:26:40   forbids we can leave them by the wayside [TS]

00:26:42   but he's like the the whole concept of [TS]

00:26:47   the augments in the idea of yes we're [TS]

00:26:49   going to genetically alter these people [TS]

00:26:51   like combined humans with all of these [TS]

00:26:53   various animal DNA is to create the [TS]

00:26:56   ultimate bodyguard and then we're going [TS]

00:26:59   to train them almost you know impress [TS]

00:27:01   upon their minds that they may only have [TS]

00:27:03   one master i'm really curious not [TS]

00:27:06   knowing the end of drowned or the end of [TS]

00:27:09   drowned cities yes that's the second one [TS]

00:27:11   yes um if we find out just why tool is [TS]

00:27:16   very different from the other the other [TS]

00:27:19   arguments like why how he was able to [TS]

00:27:21   break his conditioning because I mean [TS]

00:27:24   they say very clearly in the first book [TS]

00:27:26   when they meet other other half men you [TS]

00:27:30   know it's impossible it's theoretically [TS]

00:27:32   impossible for an augment to ever betray [TS]

00:27:35   or walk away from their master because [TS]

00:27:38   they're programmed to basically died of [TS]

00:27:40   longing if the their master dies or you [TS]

00:27:43   know goes away someone I don't think [TS]

00:27:46   it's explained other than he's not you [TS]

00:27:47   know he's he's an error [TS]

00:27:49   he's not hooked up right he is supposed [TS]

00:27:51   to behave like that he doesn't have [TS]

00:27:54   anything that's further along this with [TS]

00:27:57   this theme of you know that humankind [TS]

00:27:59   fiddle around with things that shouldn't [TS]

00:28:02   and it expects the things to work like [TS]

00:28:04   they think it doesn't that he doesn't [TS]

00:28:06   and so he's you know everyone who to [TS]

00:28:09   read like the world exactly screwed up [TS]

00:28:12   the Augmented creatures which is i mean [TS]

00:28:15   that that is this book could be just [TS]

00:28:17   saying well you know you can't you guys [TS]

00:28:19   kind of screwed up [TS]

00:28:20   the whole energy thing and and now we're [TS]

00:28:22   reaping the rewards that global warming [TS]

00:28:24   and all these things and yet he does [TS]

00:28:26   have this whole other thing that gets [TS]

00:28:28   thrown in which is genetic engineering [TS]

00:28:31   and after you you smell side plot yet [TS]

00:28:34   you spend some time thinking this is [TS]

00:28:36   really about these kids who are tearing [TS]

00:28:37   apart the ships and their terrible life [TS]

00:28:39   on shore and then they find the ship [TS]

00:28:40   that's crashed and there's a girl they [TS]

00:28:42   try to cut off her finger but she's [TS]

00:28:44   actually alive so they can't cut off her [TS]

00:28:46   finger and yet on the side there's this [TS]

00:28:49   oh did we mention that there are also [TS]

00:28:50   bioengineered monsters who are smarter [TS]

00:28:52   than people who are used to soldiers [TS]

00:28:54   that's also bad [TS]

00:28:57   no just throw that in there that also is [TS]

00:28:59   that it's counter to nature [TS]

00:29:01   kind of except he ends up being cut more [TS]

00:29:03   of a hero than its although there are [TS]

00:29:06   plenty of scary half men in this book [TS]

00:29:08   yeah there are really and I also like [TS]

00:29:10   the we see much more than the drowned [TS]

00:29:13   cities actually we see the swells we see [TS]

00:29:14   the the with rich people here where [TS]

00:29:17   there's there's this corporate [TS]

00:29:19   imagination going on between the the [TS]

00:29:22   people who are struggling for the [TS]

00:29:24   control of a of Nita's come to shipping [TS]

00:29:28   family's company right and and and now [TS]

00:29:31   that's going on and that's fascinating [TS]

00:29:33   because from the perspective of the poor [TS]

00:29:37   kids on the beach it's like who cares [TS]

00:29:40   right it's just like beyond completely [TS]

00:29:42   beyond them because holidays you guys [TS]

00:29:45   are fighting over who gets more of this [TS]

00:29:47   huge amount of money and we are [TS]

00:29:48   completely penniless and on the beach [TS]

00:29:50   and I feel like in in all of of bicycle [TS]

00:29:55   Lupe's work that CI said there are there [TS]

00:29:58   i scented we get this one of his tricks [TS]

00:30:01   which i think is really effective is he [TS]

00:30:05   takes situations that are you know this [TS]

00:30:07   is about the future and it's about [TS]

00:30:09   ecology and and about the environment [TS]

00:30:11   it's also about the present and and his [TS]

00:30:16   trick is that he's taking situations [TS]

00:30:17   that happen now and turns them around to [TS]

00:30:21   make them about as if they were [TS]

00:30:22   happening to us and so he makes a point [TS]

00:30:26   when he's talking about these poor kids [TS]

00:30:27   that are getting beaten and threatened [TS]

00:30:30   by gunfire and in both of these books [TS]

00:30:33   and pointing out that it's black kids [TS]

00:30:36   and Asian kids white kids they're blonde [TS]

00:30:38   girl blonde kids that are there working [TS]

00:30:40   as slaves and and and he's really saying [TS]

00:30:43   you know you guys are used to the poor [TS]

00:30:45   people you know being in far-off places [TS]

00:30:49   and not looking like you and in my [TS]

00:30:52   stories they look like you they are you [TS]

00:30:55   and and that's part of what he does so [TS]

00:30:57   it you know he's saying you know today [TS]

00:30:59   we've got very poor parts of the world [TS]

00:31:00   and then we've got very rich parts of [TS]

00:31:02   the world that that are arguing about [TS]

00:31:04   their first world problems right and [TS]

00:31:06   that's exactly what happens in ship [TS]

00:31:08   breaker is that is that Nina and her [TS]

00:31:10   family have a lot of first world [TS]

00:31:12   problems and the kids on the beach like [TS]

00:31:13   you know [TS]

00:31:14   hello I'm hoping to get food tonight [TS]

00:31:17   well yeah I doubt that there are people [TS]

00:31:19   you know they age dockworkers and South [TS]

00:31:22   Korea really care about the facebook IPO [TS]

00:31:24   right where it's you know it's like no [TS]

00:31:26   I'm gonna you know work for my daily [TS]

00:31:28   bread and get enough money to feed my [TS]

00:31:31   family and the kids in bangladesh that [TS]

00:31:33   are disassembling ships are are not do [TS]

00:31:35   not care about what's happening with the [TS]

00:31:37   latest in computer technology right now [TS]

00:31:39   they don't care they're they're far away [TS]

00:31:42   from that sort of thing [TS]

00:31:43   yeah so I think that's one of that's one [TS]

00:31:45   of a of his very effective sometimes [TS]

00:31:49   tricks of of saying no this is not [TS]

00:31:51   happening in a far-off land this is [TS]

00:31:54   happening here are our own world has [TS]

00:31:57   disintegrated and this is what it's like [TS]

00:31:58   to live in a poor miserable place the [TS]

00:32:04   vestiges bringing more close to home [TS]

00:32:06   residents that said this is not a this [TS]

00:32:08   is not a depressing kind of book the [TS]

00:32:10   setting is depressing but it is a fun [TS]

00:32:12   entertaining book about these smart kids [TS]

00:32:16   doing what they can to survive and [TS]

00:32:19   making some smart decisions in the end [TS]

00:32:22   out to to beat beat the bad guys with [TS]

00:32:25   the help of their you know monster [TS]

00:32:28   I don't know what his mentor he's a [TS]

00:32:31   monster and a mentor might see someone [TS]

00:32:33   store [TS]

00:32:34   exactly i wish i had a monster I will [TS]

00:32:39   meet him one [TS]

00:32:39   today it's got what I I mean I realize [TS]

00:32:42   you and I both read this book a long [TS]

00:32:44   time ago i was in Scott book years it [TS]

00:32:47   was like two centuries ago [TS]

00:32:48   yeah yeah you have anything else that [TS]

00:32:50   sticks out for you about about ship [TS]

00:32:53   breaker that we have uh huh i love the [TS]

00:32:56   end where they're smart enough that they [TS]

00:32:58   know the terrain of the bay that they're [TS]

00:33:00   legally lowering the ship into and so [TS]

00:33:03   you know there's that moment wait for it [TS]

00:33:05   wait for it [TS]

00:33:06   there we because the kids know like [TS]

00:33:08   where the rocks [TS]

00:33:09   all right but not even rocks dead [TS]

00:33:12   underwater building scale yeah right [TS]

00:33:14   that's right right right which is kinda [TS]

00:33:17   ruined crazy [TS]

00:33:18   although i will say the one thing that [TS]

00:33:20   flag me about that ending was I nailers [TS]

00:33:24   father is technically on the big bad [TS]

00:33:27   enemy ship wouldn't he know about the [TS]

00:33:30   big giant skyscraper teeth that nailers [TS]

00:33:33   leading in into or maybe he's just not [TS]

00:33:35   know either with the captain I think [TS]

00:33:37   Richard Lopez like nah day he's kind of [TS]

00:33:41   not legitimate figure he he doesn't [TS]

00:33:43   really know all the stuff like he was [TS]

00:33:45   always like a fixer and he was on the [TS]

00:33:46   beach and I think he's not he was heavy [TS]

00:33:49   crew for a while I mean I know he was [TS]

00:33:51   also like you know later but I i want to [TS]

00:33:54   say like he probably knew the area [TS]

00:33:56   goodbye at the same time they do mention [TS]

00:33:59   that that ship is a much bigger ship [TS]

00:34:01   than the tiny ship and it was one of [TS]

00:34:05   those things where I was like this is [TS]

00:34:08   the only thing that distracts from being [TS]

00:34:10   absolutely perfect [TS]

00:34:11   alright but so absolutely perfect you [TS]

00:34:14   say so [TS]

00:34:15   so I i can I take this test then that [TS]

00:34:18   you enjoyed your your reading of ship [TS]

00:34:21   breaker i did not expect to but I really [TS]

00:34:23   did well I want you ready ready because [TS]

00:34:27   it was going to be in the book club and [TS]

00:34:28   you're like alright i'll read it [TS]

00:34:29   these jerks want me to read it Scott [TS]

00:34:31   said he liked it but shinno scott i mean [TS]

00:34:34   i i've had sort of 5050 luck the book [TS]

00:34:37   club was like I've started like dervish [TS]

00:34:39   house i remember reading I don't know [TS]

00:34:42   200 pages of and being like I'm sure [TS]

00:34:44   this book will eventually get really [TS]

00:34:46   interesting but it's just catching me [TS]

00:34:48   i know i know i'll finish it sometime [TS]

00:34:50   right for you [TS]

00:34:52   yeah and that's absolutely it is a slow [TS]

00:34:54   build oh yeah when I just said that [TS]

00:34:57   point I didn't have time to really like [TS]

00:34:59   sit back and enjoy a thousand-page book [TS]

00:35:01   with a 300-page slow build-up but with [TS]

00:35:04   this one you know the first couple [TS]

00:35:05   chapters are slow and I thought I [TS]

00:35:08   expected myself to get kind of impatient [TS]

00:35:11   with it but they build it so nicely like [TS]

00:35:14   there are a lot of things that happened [TS]

00:35:15   in this relatively short book but none [TS]

00:35:17   of them to feel rushed [TS]

00:35:19   none of them feel overlong either it's a [TS]

00:35:23   it's just a really nice balance with a [TS]

00:35:26   gigantic really well formed world [TS]

00:35:29   considering again the limited book space [TS]

00:35:32   in which they had to explain it like all [TS]

00:35:35   of the conflicts feel real the [TS]

00:35:37   background of the beach you know the [TS]

00:35:39   beach folk feel real all the most of the [TS]

00:35:42   characters developed even even the [TS]

00:35:45   captain's like towards the end feel some [TS]

00:35:47   somewhat developed he just has a a a [TS]

00:35:50   really fantastic knack for being able to [TS]

00:35:54   shape and explain a world without you [TS]

00:35:57   feeling like you're you know either too [TS]

00:35:59   overwhelmed or underwhelmed by it and [TS]

00:36:02   poking holes through it so yeah i'm [TS]

00:36:04   looking forward to reading drowned [TS]

00:36:06   cities is it i started it i just [TS]

00:36:09   finished ship breaker like 30 minutes [TS]

00:36:10   before the podcast i started finished so [TS]

00:36:14   it's very recent that's true damn or and [TS]

00:36:16   almost more necessary action [TS]

00:36:18   definity i only started reading ship [TS]

00:36:21   breaker yesterday so you know I got [TS]

00:36:23   through it quick but I'm you know I i [TS]

00:36:27   read the first hundred pages of drowned [TS]

00:36:29   cities in the half hour between [TS]

00:36:30   finishing ship breaker and waiting for [TS]

00:36:33   this podcast artisan like this world is [TS]

00:36:34   actually really interesting and I really [TS]

00:36:36   want to like go back to it as soon as [TS]

00:36:39   possible haha told you so I don't know [TS]

00:36:44   I'm yeah I'm glad I'm glad that I'm glad [TS]

00:36:47   that you liked it when I first heard [TS]

00:36:49   about it from scott who said it was very [TS]

00:36:51   good because we were talking about the [TS]

00:36:52   wind up girly snow [TS]

00:36:53   shipbreakers better than the window girl [TS]

00:36:55   he liked the wind up girl but it's [TS]

00:36:57   really haven't read the windup girl yet [TS]

00:36:59   so [TS]

00:36:59   I make some people hate another and some [TS]

00:37:01   people that love it and I I much to my [TS]

00:37:04   surprise when i was reading it i [TS]

00:37:05   discovered that i loved it so I voted [TS]

00:37:07   for it over the city in the city by me [TS]

00:37:09   evil and they tied so it didn't I guess [TS]

00:37:12   I'm the reason since I my vote actually [TS]

00:37:14   in town i'm the reason they tied because [TS]

00:37:17   I I thought it was I don't like the city [TS]

00:37:19   in the city too but it seems that he was [TS]

00:37:21   very good but the windup girl just you [TS]

00:37:23   know [TS]

00:37:23   yeah I thought it was really i thought [TS]

00:37:25   was really good and that this is a [TS]

00:37:26   similarly similarly good i think it [TS]

00:37:30   maybe is better [TS]

00:37:30   Scott I mean that is a really good it's [TS]

00:37:33   working my wife is a children's [TS]

00:37:35   librarian and she's recommended it and [TS]

00:37:38   she read it before I did in fact and [TS]

00:37:39   she's recommended it to many many people [TS]

00:37:42   now which i think is really cool to find [TS]

00:37:43   somebody who doesn't read a lot of [TS]

00:37:45   sci-fi some but not a lot but has you [TS]

00:37:48   know a conduit to young minds who want [TS]

00:37:51   to read books and is saying ship breaker [TS]

00:37:54   is you know is a highly recommended book [TS]

00:37:57   so that's good too [TS]

00:37:58   I will take full credit for all of that [TS]

00:38:00   you should you are molding young minds [TS]

00:38:02   in California from far away in [TS]

00:38:04   Philadelphia you are the monster tour I [TS]

00:38:09   know [TS]

00:38:09   yes but it's got i'm going to send you a [TS]

00:38:12   list of really good young adult novels [TS]

00:38:15   that I hope you will not hate [TS]

00:38:17   so you can expand your reach of really [TS]

00:38:20   cool ones should see see me i'm at that [TS]

00:38:22   way i would love to see the list of I [TS]

00:38:24   don't pass that onto to Lauren who can [TS]

00:38:27   use more things to recommend in the [TS]

00:38:29   children's library so yeah I mean [TS]

00:38:31   they're all they're all like five and [TS]

00:38:33   10-year olds a recommendation about [TS]

00:38:35   salon might yeah they're still on my [TS]

00:38:38   shelf will still cool books to go bad [TS]

00:38:40   books are all short I'm Leslie when [TS]

00:38:42   they're about apocalyptic futures that's [TS]

00:38:45   true well sometimes to go bed [TS]

00:38:47   we're not talking about this [TS]

00:38:50   that's not discussing this podcast so [TS]

00:38:53   now because miss Caldwell has not yet [TS]

00:38:56   read the rest of the drowned cities [TS]

00:38:58   oh and we are going to have to shake [TS]

00:39:00   goodbye to her [TS]

00:39:01   we're going to put her in the soundproof [TS]

00:39:02   booth or actually just you know maybe [TS]

00:39:03   hang up and go crawl into bed and read [TS]

00:39:06   through and read the rest of them and so [TS]

00:39:09   you two can talk so yes we thank you for [TS]

00:39:12   your service and [TS]

00:39:13   thanks for being on this on this podcast [TS]

00:39:15   and and we will say could we will part [TS]

00:39:18   ways and it's just gonna be me and Scott [TS]

00:39:19   the rest of the way who is podcast is [TS]

00:39:22   over for you know it's just be a night [TS]

00:39:25   goodnight goodbye point yeah she's going [TS]

00:39:30   i'm scott you're the last one left again [TS]

00:39:32   I i just am a winner [TS]

00:39:36   I'm a survivor that's why i am you are [TS]

00:39:39   and a mod store constantly they don't [TS]

00:39:41   wait up a new word and you are it [TS]

00:39:44   yes so the dream cities the drowned [TS]

00:39:48   cities [TS]

00:39:51   what did you think jason has compared to [TS]

00:39:54   the ship breakers which one you like [TS]

00:39:57   more [TS]

00:39:58   I like ship breaker better i did as well [TS]

00:40:02   which is not to say that the grounds [TS]

00:40:05   that i liked around cities and now one [TS]

00:40:07   of the questions I had for you was it is [TS]

00:40:10   is the drowned cities darker than ship [TS]

00:40:12   breaker and and Mike the reason that i [TS]

00:40:15   keep going back and forth on this is [TS]

00:40:17   that in the drowned cities the kids we [TS]

00:40:19   meet at the beginning have a semi stable [TS]

00:40:23   life I mean they lost their old life but [TS]

00:40:25   they like you're working for this doctor [TS]

00:40:26   in a village and you know they kind of [TS]

00:40:29   got a system whereas the kids and ship [TS]

00:40:32   breaker just you know slaves and it's [TS]

00:40:34   miserable [TS]

00:40:36   the difference is that they have a nice [TS]

00:40:38   kind of adventure that leads to meeting [TS]

00:40:40   a rich girl who it might save them [TS]

00:40:42   whereas just terrible things happened to [TS]

00:40:45   kids in the surrounding cities terrible [TS]

00:40:48   things I i think that without a doubt [TS]

00:40:50   the drowned city is much darker than [TS]

00:40:52   ship breaker if only because of the the [TS]

00:40:56   number of times people say maggot maggot [TS]

00:40:58   it's it's a it's a we can't swear in the [TS]

00:41:01   young adult fiction so instead we get [TS]

00:41:03   maggot every and you you wrote you but [TS]

00:41:06   you didn't ruin I would have noticed [TS]

00:41:07   anyway but when you pointed out they say [TS]

00:41:09   Megan a lot as i was reading it I Bryce [TS]

00:41:11   started to notice that they say make it [TS]

00:41:13   a lot [TS]

00:41:14   everybody's a maggot there were maggots [TS]

00:41:15   their magnetism maggot that training [TS]

00:41:19   maggots [TS]

00:41:20   yeah hallelujah it's raining minutes and [TS]

00:41:23   so is why is to the drowned cities uh [TS]

00:41:26   they're like child the a lot of the [TS]

00:41:28   characters are child soldiers basically [TS]

00:41:30   right so yeah they're young i mean i [TS]

00:41:32   think and it really did forget how young [TS]

00:41:34   they are and then they they eventually [TS]

00:41:36   end up someplace where there are people [TS]

00:41:38   like we're in their teens or twenties [TS]

00:41:40   and you realize oh geez these kids are [TS]

00:41:42   like 10 12 years old right and so that [TS]

00:41:45   the teenagers are like the officers the [TS]

00:41:47   experienced people he actually get [TS]

00:41:49   uniforms instead of just a an automatic [TS]

00:41:52   machine [TS]

00:41:53   no it don't even think about machete and [TS]

00:41:56   it all that's true you have been a [TS]

00:41:57   bottle of acid you start with a machete [TS]

00:42:00   and a bottle of acid see there you go if [TS]

00:42:03   you know any book that had [TS]

00:42:04   as ten-year-olds waging war fair with a [TS]

00:42:08   machete and a bottle of acid is pretty [TS]

00:42:10   dark pretty dark pretty dark [TS]

00:42:13   yeah yeah so we we meet Malia and mouse [TS]

00:42:17   and they are kids who are working for [TS]

00:42:19   this doctor in this village and an army [TS]

00:42:24   and militia that's one of these groups [TS]

00:42:27   that we we realize we're we're actually [TS]

00:42:29   in the Potomac basin and this is around [TS]

00:42:31   Washington DC and and these various [TS]

00:42:35   militia groups are are are fighting this [TS]

00:42:37   endless war with each other and they [TS]

00:42:39   they come to their village because [TS]

00:42:41   they've been chasing a monster through [TS]

00:42:43   the jungle that monster of course is [TS]

00:42:47   tool [TS]

00:42:48   Oh half-man from fully booked [TS]

00:42:52   yes Tyler all right yes yes the spoiler [TS]

00:42:56   horn by the way that sounded for the [TS]

00:42:59   drowned cities hopefully if you have not [TS]

00:43:01   read it and do not want to be spoiled so [TS]

00:43:04   so tool tools presence causes all the [TS]

00:43:08   stuff to happen basically and Malia and [TS]

00:43:10   mouse watch their village get torched [TS]

00:43:12   yeah the doctor is killed horribly you [TS]

00:43:16   know just awful things happen and and [TS]

00:43:18   the mouse is taken in by a hand [TS]

00:43:21   recruited by this uh this militia and so [TS]

00:43:25   they're they're turning him into another [TS]

00:43:26   faceless killing machine soldier boy [TS]

00:43:29   throughout throughout this book while [TS]

00:43:31   Malia is talking to and arguing with [TS]

00:43:35   tool tools like well let's just leave it [TS]

00:43:38   leave that lets run we are outnumbered [TS]

00:43:41   and our only chance of getting out of [TS]

00:43:44   this is if we leave him and there's no [TS]

00:43:46   logic to stay you notice you're not [TS]

00:43:49   going to be able to save him and she [TS]

00:43:50   insists she doesn't i think is very [TS]

00:43:52   clever that she figures out tools kind [TS]

00:43:55   of pack mentality because it's kinda [TS]

00:43:57   been programmed into him because he's [TS]

00:43:59   part dog and she's like well he's a pack [TS]

00:44:02   member we need to save him and tools [TS]

00:44:04   like well alright yeah yeah I can't [TS]

00:44:07   decide whether that's Malia manipulating [TS]

00:44:11   tool or whether tool is like almost like [TS]

00:44:14   reading her feelings for him and [TS]

00:44:18   saying oh and extrapolating I great i go [TS]

00:44:22   he's like part of your pack I oh that I [TS]

00:44:25   understand i'm not sure what what which [TS]

00:44:28   one it is but it's it's effective right [TS]

00:44:30   that then suddenly he is ready to leave [TS]

00:44:34   and decides not to and and she tries to [TS]

00:44:37   save his life so that he'll owe her and [TS]

00:44:39   he laughed it off it says I don't owe [TS]

00:44:41   you anything and yet he he ends up going [TS]

00:44:43   with her anyway for his own reasons and [TS]

00:44:45   I you know such an interesting character [TS]

00:44:48   because he's not he's not human and he [TS]

00:44:52   does not behave like a human but he has [TS]

00:44:53   his own honor and his own kind of code [TS]

00:44:57   and he's happy to rip people into into [TS]

00:45:00   shreds but at the same time he's he's [TS]

00:45:02   he's like a weapon that his that is [TS]

00:45:05   turned back on its creators and he's now [TS]

00:45:07   it's like an a a tool of vengeance [TS]

00:45:12   against those who created him [TS]

00:45:14   that's true yeah and I think it's a he [TS]

00:45:17   is probably the most fleshed out of the [TS]

00:45:20   characters not the other characters are [TS]

00:45:22   like caricatures i think a Paolo [TS]

00:45:25   Bacigalupi it does a great job getting a [TS]

00:45:29   lot of characterization into all of his [TS]

00:45:32   characters and I think tool and mouse [TS]

00:45:35   are probably my two favorite characters [TS]

00:45:37   in this book [TS]

00:45:38   um and which makes mouse's story even [TS]

00:45:42   more depressing 40 as it was heroin [TS]

00:45:45   right that he is you actually are seeing [TS]

00:45:48   the steps that he goes through to sort [TS]

00:45:49   of dehumanize him and and there's a [TS]

00:45:52   moment where heat more mouse has this [TS]

00:45:53   great success where he because he's not [TS]

00:45:55   very valuable they basically thrown in [TS]

00:45:57   the water and have them swim over to [TS]

00:45:59   where there are snipers figuring you [TS]

00:46:01   know you get shot whatever he does it [TS]

00:46:03   doesn't matter and he succeeds and like [TS]

00:46:06   all the people who are with him die and [TS]

00:46:09   he kills and then he kills a bunch of [TS]

00:46:11   people and his coup de Gras is that he [TS]

00:46:14   calls in the radio is very smart righty [TS]

00:46:17   call him on the radio that people who [TS]

00:46:19   are firing artillery and tells him to [TS]

00:46:21   move it back a few hundred yards which [TS]

00:46:22   blows up their fellow soldiers instead [TS]

00:46:24   of his soldiers from so children right [TS]

00:46:28   and so it's you're like yay [TS]

00:46:30   uh actually not a second yeah he's [TS]

00:46:34   killed people and all of that but that [TS]

00:46:36   so you're rooting for him and then you [TS]

00:46:37   realize what you're doing which is he is [TS]

00:46:39   becoming increasingly one of these like [TS]

00:46:41   Jojo who is one of the other characters [TS]

00:46:43   who is sort of like Mouse further along [TS]

00:46:46   he's been further dehumanizing Malia [TS]

00:46:49   gets a sense that ocho I you know there [TS]

00:46:53   are moments when he's like a human being [TS]

00:46:54   and moments where he's like a completely [TS]

00:46:56   inhuman killing machine [TS]

00:46:58   she doesn't really understand it better [TS]

00:47:00   but now with with mouse's progression [TS]

00:47:02   you see this is what happens is these [TS]

00:47:04   kids are great card sort of ground-up [TS]

00:47:07   and the ones who survived end up being [TS]

00:47:10   they've seen all of these people died [TS]

00:47:12   and they've come become completely [TS]

00:47:14   dehumanized yeah it's fun [TS]

00:47:17   it is it is an uplifting story it's a [TS]

00:47:20   it's a rough so so it's all set it [TS]

00:47:23   what's interesting is I read an [TS]

00:47:24   interview with with Paolo Bacigalupi [TS]

00:47:26   where he was talking about the subject [TS]

00:47:30   matter and how he is not a non-political [TS]

00:47:32   writer at all because he does have these [TS]

00:47:34   other environmental themes in his work [TS]

00:47:37   but that hehe said that as he was [TS]

00:47:39   writing it he found that he was much [TS]

00:47:42   more overtly political than usual and [TS]

00:47:46   you see it in setting it in washington [TS]

00:47:47   DC I and having these different kind of [TS]

00:47:50   militia groups that are like the Army of [TS]

00:47:52   God and the Patriots and all these sorts [TS]

00:47:54   of things and they're there are several [TS]

00:47:56   passages where he talks about how all [TS]

00:48:00   this started with people who disagreed [TS]

00:48:03   with the beliefs of other people saying [TS]

00:48:05   they were traders or not patriotic and [TS]

00:48:09   it's clearly his his take on our current [TS]

00:48:13   events you know fractured political [TS]

00:48:16   system where if you don't believe what I [TS]

00:48:18   believe you are not you know you're not [TS]

00:48:20   an American or you're against America or [TS]

00:48:23   you're not a patriot and and you know [TS]

00:48:26   which wich so did you find that stuff to [TS]

00:48:28   be having praised him for not being too [TS]

00:48:31   preachy and ship breaker did you find [TS]

00:48:32   that stuff i mean i was a little more [TS]

00:48:34   overtly like I'm sending you a message [TS]

00:48:36   now [TS]

00:48:37   yeah it was it was kind i think that was [TS]

00:48:39   part of the reason why i didn't like [TS]

00:48:40   this book as much [TS]

00:48:41   ship breaker because it was kind of more [TS]

00:48:45   so than ship breaker wearing its lesson [TS]

00:48:48   on its sleeve as it were especially [TS]

00:48:50   given like you said setting in [TS]

00:48:52   Washington making these tee two groups [TS]

00:48:54   so kind of obviously mirroring what's [TS]

00:48:59   happening uh now uh without trying to [TS]

00:49:03   shade it at all really [TS]

00:49:05   um right it's because it's the Patriots [TS]

00:49:07   against the Army of God writes these two [TS]

00:49:10   groups that are saying we're for [TS]

00:49:11   goodness rackets as they as they shell [TS]

00:49:14   the hell out of each other kill each [TS]

00:49:16   other and they don't know nobody really [TS]

00:49:18   knows why they're trying to kill each [TS]

00:49:20   other and the any other interesting [TS]

00:49:22   thing and the climax is at the Capitol [TS]

00:49:25   right right and so that that's not a [TS]

00:49:26   message at all is it there in the [TS]

00:49:28   Capitol building in the Capitol building [TS]

00:49:29   basically is blown up in the climax [TS]

00:49:32   which so it's all this time it hasn't [TS]

00:49:34   really gotten hurt but now [TS]

00:49:36   yeah yeah yeahs a six-time acts of this [TS]

00:49:38   book it's the Capitol dome is gonna gets [TS]

00:49:41   mad it's a giant building that is [TS]

00:49:43   clearly a target but it's react and so [TS]

00:49:47   the other thing that was kind of a [TS]

00:49:48   little heavy-handed is so the Chinese [TS]

00:49:51   have a apparently survived the eco [TS]

00:49:54   apocalypse a fairly well and so they [TS]

00:49:57   come into America to be like the [TS]

00:49:59   Peacekeeper to be peacekeeper sins to [TS]

00:50:02   teach people how to you know have a [TS]

00:50:04   democracy and live civilized and you [TS]

00:50:07   know how they can instead of a fighting [TS]

00:50:11   each other they can farm and turn their [TS]

00:50:14   you know they have all these [TS]

00:50:15   motivational sayings and this literature [TS]

00:50:17   and they paint propaganda to help people [TS]

00:50:19   to wrap and only a million father was a [TS]

00:50:22   Chinese peacekeeper who met her mother [TS]

00:50:25   who is an American and and had her and [TS]

00:50:29   then the Chinese pull out and she's left [TS]

00:50:31   behind rises the Sun and they they run [TS]

00:50:34   to the docks right when they're leaving [TS]

00:50:35   because clearly hey we're his family [TS]

00:50:37   there's growing room on the boats and [TS]

00:50:39   which is so so clearly like a Vietnam [TS]

00:50:41   kind of a parallel except that we're [TS]

00:50:42   Vietnam and this is exactly [TS]

00:50:45   and this is like what you're saying [TS]

00:50:46   before he kind of twists a what's the he [TS]

00:50:49   makes the and I imagine he's writing for [TS]

00:50:52   largely American audience but that could [TS]

00:50:54   be wrong so he kind of Western audience [TS]

00:50:56   westerns that's true and so he he shifts [TS]

00:50:58   your normal expectations of well that [TS]

00:51:01   doesn't happen to people in Western [TS]

00:51:03   civilization's yeah i mean not to not to [TS]

00:51:05   be too blunt about it but I I feel like [TS]

00:51:07   one of the the tricks he doesn't it can [TS]

00:51:10   be very effective is he saying and he [TS]

00:51:12   uses this he says is this person red [TS]

00:51:15   hair and this person was blonde with [TS]

00:51:17   pale skin and what he's saying is he's [TS]

00:51:19   telling a story essentially about about [TS]

00:51:24   what has happened recently in fact in [TS]

00:51:27   Africa especially where there are [TS]

00:51:30   militias with children do and they do [TS]

00:51:33   and and horrible things happen in these [TS]

00:51:35   children are kind of dehumanized as they [TS]

00:51:38   live through these horrible violent [TS]

00:51:40   spurts in in especially in Africa and so [TS]

00:51:46   he tells that same story except he he [TS]

00:51:48   makes a point of saying you know these [TS]

00:51:50   are white kids and and and blackheads [TS]

00:51:52   and Asian kids and they look like [TS]

00:51:54   Americans and and you know what he's [TS]

00:51:56   saying is imagine imagine how horrible [TS]

00:51:59   this would be if it happened to you [TS]

00:52:01   now imagine the fact that it is [TS]

00:52:02   happening yeah today [TS]

00:52:04   oh by the way it's in Washington DC yeah [TS]

00:52:07   yeah so it hits home but he's also so [TS]

00:52:09   he's making its that statement about you [TS]

00:52:11   know your your environment your culture [TS]

00:52:14   could be destroyed by your actions but I [TS]

00:52:17   i'm interested in the fact that he's [TS]

00:52:18   also making a side statement which is [TS]

00:52:20   you know you can ignore the violence or [TS]

00:52:23   have it be remote in some places like [TS]

00:52:26   Africa but you can't I it's harder to do [TS]

00:52:31   that when i when i make you think of it [TS]

00:52:33   in the context of a bunch of little [TS]

00:52:35   American kids who are who have a machete [TS]

00:52:37   and a Nevada of acid and are and you [TS]

00:52:41   know are chopping off limbs and [TS]

00:52:43   indiscriminately killing people [TS]

00:52:45   so yeah it's kinda dark but but i think [TS]

00:52:48   really effective in that way of of [TS]

00:52:50   saying you know these are horrible [TS]

00:52:52   things and they're not the horrible [TS]

00:52:54   things that happened this book or not [TS]

00:52:55   things that haven't happened [TS]

00:52:57   world they just haven't happened in the [TS]

00:52:58   future in America so you know it makes [TS]

00:53:01   it that all the more horrible i guess to [TS]

00:53:04   see you know to look at these characters [TS]

00:53:06   and say these are our these are us and [TS]

00:53:08   and we don't have you know it's funny I [TS]

00:53:11   mean logically of course this is not [TS]

00:53:14   true but you know one of the nice things [TS]

00:53:16   about science fiction is is he can use [TS]

00:53:18   that device to say look you're you as an [TS]

00:53:21   American are used to seeing the poor [TS]

00:53:24   people in these terrible places with his [TS]

00:53:26   terrible violence as having different [TS]

00:53:29   color skin and different looking faces [TS]

00:53:31   and being able to sort of like just say [TS]

00:53:36   well that sort of thing doesn't happen [TS]

00:53:38   to people like us right now with plastic [TS]

00:53:40   a loop he says in both these books is [TS]

00:53:42   yeah you're you wanna bet [TS]

00:53:44   how do you how do you how would feel if [TS]

00:53:47   it did happen to people who looked like [TS]

00:53:48   you who were you how then how horrible [TS]

00:53:51   would this be and that's that is one of [TS]

00:53:53   these things that he doesn't answer is [TS]

00:53:55   it's it's really really horrible [TS]

00:53:58   spoiler alert not cool it is it is [TS]

00:54:01   terrible [TS]

00:54:02   that's O'Toole meanwhile takes Malia and [TS]

00:54:05   I'm like on his back and breathe air [TS]

00:54:09   into her mouth and maybe go into the [TS]

00:54:11   heart of the drowned cities and the end [TS]

00:54:13   the climax there in the basement of [TS]

00:54:15   capital basically and he gets he gets [TS]

00:54:19   free because he was captured by the way [TS]

00:54:22   protip do not take the captured half-man [TS]

00:54:27   to your lair and hope he doesn't get out [TS]

00:54:33   yeah and talked a little while and then [TS]

00:54:35   justice and have a guy with the keys get [TS]

00:54:37   a little too close to exactly it's a lot [TS]

00:54:39   of ground a bad idea because what [TS]

00:54:42   happens is he gets out and he like [TS]

00:54:43   literally kills just by tearing shooting [TS]

00:54:46   or tearing them limb from limb every [TS]

00:54:49   major senior figure in this one militia [TS]

00:54:53   is just they're all dead [TS]

00:54:55   me and it's it's it's Malia and Jojo and [TS]

00:54:59   tool i think so [TS]

00:55:01   in the basement with dead people all [TS]

00:55:04   around them [TS]

00:55:05   wow it's [TS]

00:55:07   a pretty dark oh and i didn't even [TS]

00:55:09   mention the fact that I'm Malia's mother [TS]

00:55:12   has apparently squirrels away or stolen [TS]

00:55:15   like all of the key artifacts of like [TS]

00:55:18   the Constitution you from the National [TS]

00:55:21   Archives she's basically taken all [TS]

00:55:23   valuable artifacts and hidden like a [TS]

00:55:25   secret room in her apartment building [TS]

00:55:28   and once again playing with that whole [TS]

00:55:30   idea of there's kind of two [TS]

00:55:32   civilizations here one people living in [TS]

00:55:36   the dragon city with to uh you know [TS]

00:55:38   children soldiers kill each other and [TS]

00:55:40   crazy militias fighting over inch by [TS]

00:55:43   inch over a city that's basically ruined [TS]

00:55:46   and worthless [TS]

00:55:47   yeah and then you have like [TS]

00:55:48   businesspeople from China coming by to [TS]

00:55:52   purchase a the artifacts artifacts [TS]

00:55:55   executor laying around because they want [TS]

00:55:57   to save them from this this war-torn [TS]

00:56:00   place and this is right this actually [TS]

00:56:02   happens in the real world right yeah [TS]

00:56:05   right right that people from the the [TS]

00:56:07   rich countries come to the poor [TS]

00:56:09   countries and exploit them and accept [TS]

00:56:10   and occasionally the UN since [TS]

00:56:12   peacekeeping forces right or NATO and [TS]

00:56:15   that's what the a and you know as [TS]

00:56:17   Americans were always the ones who are [TS]

00:56:19   sent to those places and so again just [TS]

00:56:21   like with the Vietnam parallel that [TS]

00:56:23   parallel of being the place where the [TS]

00:56:25   peacekeepers are sent and they are [TS]

00:56:27   condescending and they're like you [TS]

00:56:28   people are savages why don't you why do [TS]

00:56:30   you do this why do you fight when you [TS]

00:56:32   could be cultured and have a democracy [TS]

00:56:34   all of these things and and he just [TS]

00:56:36   turns it he just turned it all around [TS]

00:56:41   yeah so did you get did you get what the [TS]

00:56:43   drowned city stands for did I get with [TS]

00:56:46   the ground city stands for its DC oh I [TS]

00:56:50   did not make that connection haha very [TS]

00:56:53   proud of myself when I realized that [TS]

00:56:54   drowned cities means DC it's washington [TS]

00:56:58   DC the drowned cities [TS]

00:57:00   well I did not pick up another haha off [TS]

00:57:02   two points for you Jay yes oh yes [TS]

00:57:06   finally [TS]

00:57:07   I'm off to my drought I 10 points for a [TS]

00:57:11   very long time it's true but so and tool [TS]

00:57:15   in this book is is is more to do it does [TS]

00:57:18   is a lot more to do and and he was an [TS]

00:57:21   interesting character in ship breaker [TS]

00:57:23   but in drowned cities he is fascinating [TS]

00:57:26   because you get you get more to Rennes [TS]

00:57:27   question about what we learned about him [TS]

00:57:29   I don't think we learned his origin [TS]

00:57:31   story that's still kind of a mystery [TS]

00:57:33   other than the fact that he's just sort [TS]

00:57:34   of um didn't behave plank [TS]

00:57:38   other like here is just not like the [TS]

00:57:40   other moms yeah it is his pack died and [TS]

00:57:43   he should have just died with them and [TS]

00:57:45   he decided he didn't care and he would [TS]

00:57:47   just be his own guy but such a [TS]

00:57:50   fascinating character because he is even [TS]

00:57:52   though he has a monster he is he is a [TS]

00:57:54   above us in many ways i love that he is [TS]

00:57:57   more not just stronger but more [TS]

00:57:59   intelligent and he's built for war right [TS]

00:58:02   and he is priorities are very different [TS]

00:58:04   his morality is very different but he [TS]

00:58:06   does have a morality and he is [TS]

00:58:08   incredibly intelligent and it's just [TS]

00:58:10   such a great character to see you know [TS]

00:58:12   it is almost like an alien being in a [TS]

00:58:14   way where he's he's except that he's not [TS]

00:58:16   above us like so many aliens are [TS]

00:58:18   portrayed as being kind of like these [TS]

00:58:20   ethereal beings that are above us he is [TS]

00:58:22   a is a killing machine but yet also is [TS]

00:58:26   has all these other traits that are so [TS]

00:58:28   much better than the people we see it's [TS]

00:58:30   just it's a it's a really interesting [TS]

00:58:32   character true and I think he says at [TS]

00:58:34   one point the Betty what he does is he [TS]

00:58:37   survives like he goes and he's been in [TS]

00:58:40   all these different battlefield he's [TS]

00:58:41   killed people on every confidence and [TS]

00:58:44   write the main thing that he has learned [TS]

00:58:46   is that he survives no matter what [TS]

00:58:48   battle he goes into he is going to [TS]

00:58:50   survive and that's kind of how frames [TS]

00:58:52   his [TS]

00:58:53   his whole view outlook on life he does [TS]

00:58:55   what he needs to do to survive and that [TS]

00:58:58   I think is kind of how he kinda [TS]

00:59:01   overrides his genetic programming [TS]

00:59:04   somehow because he want he needs to [TS]

00:59:05   survive he's not just going to lay down [TS]

00:59:07   and die like the rest of them like they [TS]

00:59:09   think he should write when we need him [TS]

00:59:11   right he's been bitten by a gigantic [TS]

00:59:13   crocodile and his arms almost falling [TS]

00:59:16   off and he only has the 1i and but he he [TS]

00:59:21   makes it he survives it's hard it's hard [TS]

00:59:23   to kill it is hard to kill as an [TS]

00:59:26   enormous half man half tiger hyena dog [TS]

00:59:31   monster guy any word you what you might [TS]

00:59:36   expect that he be difficult to kill is [TS]

00:59:38   very hard to kill [TS]

00:59:39   this is true anyway he would I was [TS]

00:59:41   really that was really good character to [TS]

00:59:43   write was nice to see more of him and [TS]

00:59:45   get a little more since I would like to [TS]

00:59:46   see him again [TS]

00:59:47   in fact maybe the next book will just be [TS]

00:59:50   all about tool the Avengers a tool [TS]

00:59:52   that's right yeah it could be open up [TS]

00:59:55   but maybe who knows it could be so so in [TS]

00:59:58   general the thumbs up for a drink [TS]

00:59:58   general the thumbs up for a drink [TS]

01:00:00   cities yeah i would think if you liked a [TS]

01:00:02   ship breaker you like the drowned cities [TS]

01:00:06   i don't know if you necessarily have to [TS]

01:00:08   breathe [TS]

01:00:09   I mean you don't they don't continue the [TS]

01:00:11   same story [TS]

01:00:12   no no crosses over so they stand alone [TS]

01:00:14   you don't have to read one or the other [TS]

01:00:15   if we're going to implementation I think [TS]

01:00:17   the implication is that is that drowned [TS]

01:00:20   cities comes after ship breaker but even [TS]

01:00:22   that it's not it's not a hundred percent [TS]

01:00:24   me a tool never mentions yeah any of [TS]

01:00:28   what he's done in the previous book so [TS]

01:00:30   right if you had to choose if you only [TS]

01:00:33   have time for one of them i would think [TS]

01:00:35   you should show the ship breaker [TS]

01:00:37   yeah but it really quick reads and there [TS]

01:00:40   are both well done so i would say thumbs [TS]

01:00:43   up [TS]

01:00:43   yeah they don't feel dumb down I mean to [TS]

01:00:45   get back to the point about yaa books [TS]

01:00:47   and general david this is not a it's not [TS]

01:00:49   dumb down book it just because I mean [TS]

01:00:52   there isn't there isn't bad language [TS]

01:00:55   just maggots stream agate and if you're [TS]

01:00:58   offended by the word maggot don't read [TS]

01:01:00   that around cities there's lots of [TS]

01:01:01   maggots are there is a lot of maggots [TS]

01:01:03   all over the place but it's so funny to [TS]

01:01:04   me that so young adult fiction you know [TS]

01:01:07   don't swear [TS]

01:01:09   and don't have sex but it's okay to have [TS]

01:01:11   kids [TS]

01:01:12   cutting down kids and have really [TS]

01:01:13   horrible violent things yeah really [TS]

01:01:16   twisted like psychological things going [TS]

01:01:19   on [TS]

01:01:19   that's ok but hey don't swear yeah we [TS]

01:01:23   want the kids to get the wrong idea yeah [TS]

01:01:24   i know i know it is very strange [TS]

01:01:27   it's a very strange set of parties [TS]

01:01:28   because it is it is so I mean what [TS]

01:01:30   they're these are kids in with my ship [TS]

01:01:32   machetes hacking off the arms of other [TS]

01:01:35   kids and throwing acid in each other's [TS]

01:01:37   faces you know this is not just horrible [TS]

01:01:39   yeah it's not that they don't swear they [TS]

01:01:41   just a maggot exactly so it's ok so it's [TS]

01:01:43   all right i don't have sex except for [TS]

01:01:45   the except well actually is a sex scene [TS]

01:01:47   in and around cities i guess we should [TS]

01:01:48   say because they wouldn't they they get [TS]

01:01:50   naylor high / drunk on stuff is [TS]

01:01:53   initiation or not naylor mouse [TS]

01:01:56   yes his initiation into being the [TS]

01:01:57   faceless member of a militia and that [TS]

01:02:00   was that reminds me the kind of the the [TS]

01:02:02   really chilly point for me is when mouse [TS]

01:02:04   starts at some point so the the kids uh [TS]

01:02:08   in the militia they they kind of [TS]

01:02:11   basically shanghai mouse and he becomes [TS]

01:02:13   a soldier right and they give my name [TS]

01:02:15   and donate right coast is his new name [TS]

01:02:17   and at some point during the narrative a [TS]

01:02:20   Palo stops calling and mouse himself [TS]

01:02:24   stops thinking of himself as mouse and [TS]

01:02:26   thinks of himself as ghosts [TS]

01:02:27   yeah at that point you're like oh boy [TS]

01:02:29   that's after they get them to get them [TS]

01:02:31   high and they thrown into the whorehouse [TS]

01:02:33   basically the nail shed with Neil shed [TS]

01:02:35   girls and when he wakes up the next day [TS]

01:02:38   it's like ghosts woke up it doesn't [TS]

01:02:40   agree that was very effective [TS]

01:02:42   yeah yeah it's terrible that you know [TS]

01:02:45   it's a it's his it his adventure is not [TS]

01:02:48   a happy one [TS]

01:02:50   he has a little PS a nice moment at the [TS]

01:02:52   end but it's not that nice shirt and I [TS]

01:02:55   mean I'm not a approved and I don't [TS]

01:02:58   think that kids need to be sheltered but [TS]

01:03:00   I i was reading this I thought to myself [TS]

01:03:02   this is really a young adult book I mean [TS]

01:03:04   it seems very extreme for a lot of the [TS]

01:03:08   the violence seems a little like my head [TS]

01:03:10   I'd say the high school level and yeah I [TS]

01:03:13   guess that's true isn't it [TS]

01:03:14   my daughter I wouldn't have my daughter [TS]

01:03:16   read at ten there's no way but for high [TS]

01:03:20   school kind of audience i think you know [TS]

01:03:22   when i was reading stuff that was again [TS]

01:03:24   probably inappropriate for or at least [TS]

01:03:27   would be considered an appropriate for [TS]

01:03:29   my age but it was fine [TS]

01:03:30   I you know was fine read that piercing [TS]

01:03:33   to me and go well [TS]

01:03:34   ok so their sex in this book alright I [TS]

01:03:37   don't know anything about that i'm only [TS]

01:03:38   15 but i am going to read it and you [TS]

01:03:43   know it which might be working in its [TS]

01:03:45   own way if piers anthony is teaching you [TS]

01:03:47   about [TS]

01:03:47   well that is gonna be dark got a good [TS]

01:03:53   thing but but I bi it this is yeah this [TS]

01:03:56   is a like a high school level kinda and [TS]

01:03:58   I mean I don't think it was it there was [TS]

01:04:00   nothing that offended me your nose like [TS]

01:04:02   a file it was of it's a good book i was [TS]

01:04:05   just reading it is the thing about young [TS]

01:04:07   adult fiction that throws me is that [TS]

01:04:08   work young so I never know how young [TS]

01:04:09   people are who are supposed to be [TS]

01:04:12   reading this I think red said it's sorta [TS]

01:04:14   like it's sorta like 12 to 17 or 10 to [TS]

01:04:17   17 and it's a broad broad spectrum and i [TS]

01:04:20   feel like my daughter is is creeping [TS]

01:04:22   toward being able to read some of [TS]

01:04:24   but it would be on the lower you know [TS]

01:04:26   that the the younger and if admitted [TS]

01:04:29   that is a broad range and at the high [TS]

01:04:30   end you've got things that are you know [TS]

01:04:32   in some ways just you know adult [TS]

01:04:34   essentially adult but it without you [TS]

01:04:38   know hardcore kind of sex and and [TS]

01:04:41   language stuff which is you know fine i [TS]

01:04:44   mean i-i who's to say that this book [TS]

01:04:45   would have been this book regardless and [TS]

01:04:47   that it's just both of these books are [TS]

01:04:50   late able to be labeled as yaa because [TS]

01:04:54   they are what they are right you know or [TS]

01:04:56   or that but that politics loopy is just [TS]

01:04:59   not he doesn't feel the need to have you [TS]

01:05:02   know rough language and sex in every [TS]

01:05:04   book that he writes I mean the windup [TS]

01:05:05   girls got more sex and it's got more [TS]

01:05:07   rough language but he's not there some [TS]

01:05:09   writers that I think if you take that [TS]

01:05:10   stuff away from them they would have a [TS]

01:05:11   hard time and that he doesn't strike me [TS]

01:05:13   as being rather like that so maybe he's [TS]

01:05:15   writing is appropriate for that this [TS]

01:05:17   format right and I think like Ren said [TS]

01:05:20   she didn't even realize that ship [TS]

01:05:21   breaker 10 adult book until she looked [TS]

01:05:23   at it isn't a good sign that is a good [TS]

01:05:26   sign and I think that is very true i [TS]

01:05:28   don't it doesn't feel like he set out to [TS]

01:05:30   kind of reddish in on the eight kids [TS]

01:05:32   here's a book kids it's not like that [TS]

01:05:35   you're gonna like it when you buy the [TS]

01:05:36   action figure [TS]

01:05:37   so before we go I wanted to ask even [TS]

01:05:40   though it's just you and me I want to [TS]

01:05:41   ask what are you reading [TS]

01:05:44   Scott a oddly enough i just finished a [TS]

01:05:47   book that i was reading today so I'm not [TS]

01:05:51   it's not that on that you would finish a [TS]

01:05:52   book that you're reading [TS]

01:05:54   well that'sthat's know what I guess not [TS]

01:05:56   so the book i just finished was the I [TS]

01:05:59   only a sanction which is a mystery set [TS]

01:06:04   in ancient greece about this character [TS]

01:06:08   who is an agent and he looks into this [TS]

01:06:12   this mystery about this the sky who is a [TS]

01:06:14   representative of another city in athens [TS]

01:06:16   and he dies mysteriously and so he has [TS]

01:06:19   so it's it's a detective novel set in [TS]

01:06:22   ancient greece it is in fact that's [TS]

01:06:24   crazy that's great and there's another [TS]

01:06:26   series of books that I'm reading that is [TS]

01:06:27   a detective series set in ancient Rome [TS]

01:06:30   so is it interesting a while there's a [TS]

01:06:33   whole sub-genre of a [TS]

01:06:36   ancient Oracle detective historical [TS]

01:06:38   detectives in ancient in the Asian child [TS]

01:06:41   huh [TS]

01:06:42   they're like is there a caveman [TS]

01:06:44   detective series there there probably is [TS]

01:06:46   it's probably unless intricately [TS]

01:06:48   plotters i would assume he again [TS]

01:06:51   Chronicle this is a good thing it's a [TS]

01:06:53   gold mine and and how about urself jason [TS]

01:06:56   i am currently reading Leviathan wakes [TS]

01:07:00   Oh which is one of the hugo nominees and [TS]

01:07:03   we are going to do i believe our next [TS]

01:07:04   book club is going to be the the hugo [TS]

01:07:07   novel nominees in a few weeks once [TS]

01:07:11   everybody gets a chance to read some of [TS]

01:07:13   them I think we've all read some of them [TS]

01:07:14   because we've actually done a podcast [TS]

01:07:16   about two of them [TS]

01:07:18   that's true embassy town and a dance [TS]

01:07:20   with dragons [TS]

01:07:21   hmm i but but i have no idea to read [TS]

01:07:24   deadline which is the sequel to feed [TS]

01:07:26   oh I really cute which you have read [TS]

01:07:28   even say no don't spoil me sky any more [TS]

01:07:31   than you already have I want to go in [TS]

01:07:32   fresh because i'm going to read it the [TS]

01:07:34   only reason i would read it is if it got [TS]

01:07:36   nominated for Hugo and it did i'm gonna [TS]

01:07:39   read it I am dreading the third one [TS]

01:07:41   getting knob and what a guy what was the [TS]

01:07:44   other OEM among others by John Walton [TS]

01:07:46   which has got to be the leader in the [TS]

01:07:47   clubhouse I mean oh that is such and [TS]

01:07:49   which one we should say Joe Waltons book [TS]

01:07:52   among others which we praise on previous [TS]

01:07:54   podcast one the nebula award which is [TS]

01:07:56   voted on not by fans who nominates [TS]

01:07:59   terrible books like feed store but by [TS]

01:08:01   the science-fiction writers association [TS]

01:08:03   of america so it's the science fiction [TS]

01:08:06   writers themselves nominating their [TS]

01:08:09   peers and Joe Waltons book among others [TS]

01:08:11   won the Nobel award for best novel and I [TS]

01:08:14   i heartily endorse the nebula orange [TS]

01:08:17   because that was a great choice and I i [TS]

01:08:19   figure i'm probably gonna vote for among [TS]

01:08:21   others for the hugo such a great book uh [TS]

01:08:23   I having read all of the hugo of what I [TS]

01:08:26   don't want to ruin anything but you [TS]

01:08:28   among others is the best yeah that's the [TS]

01:08:30   best one so sorry Leviathan wakes which [TS]

01:08:32   is also funny and that it is a it is a [TS]

01:08:34   sort of on one level it's a kind of [TS]

01:08:36   space operate kind of the man is spread [TS]

01:08:39   throughout the solar system and their [TS]

01:08:40   people and all the different systems but [TS]

01:08:43   it too has one of its interlocking [TS]

01:08:46   stories is really a detective story it's [TS]

01:08:48   true [TS]

01:08:49   up who's on the cut you know he's a cop [TS]

01:08:51   on the beat these given a bomb [TS]

01:08:53   assignment but it's about a girl who's [TS]

01:08:55   missing and is it his lieutenant tells [TS]

01:08:58   him to drop it but he can't drop it I [TS]

01:09:00   mean it's all these great detective [TS]

01:09:02   Norrish kind of tropes it's true except [TS]

01:09:05   it's happening in an asteroid and [TS]

01:09:08   there's a war happening and there's [TS]

01:09:09   mysterious ships that are blowing up [TS]

01:09:11   other ships and i'm only about halfway [TS]

01:09:12   through it but I'm enjoying that a lot [TS]

01:09:14   that's and because I I registered for [TS]

01:09:16   the for the hugo awards i am I got the I [TS]

01:09:21   got that novel as a as a PDF as part of [TS]

01:09:23   my packet as a voter and so I just been [TS]

01:09:25   reading it on my iPad and in the PDF [TS]

01:09:27   which was very very pretty and the [TS]

01:09:29   single the sequel just came out if [TS]

01:09:31   there's a secret i didn't even know what [TS]

01:09:32   I hope I i hope i can do you like it [TS]

01:09:34   because then I'll that I'll read the [TS]

01:09:35   sequel but I'm enjoying it so far [TS]

01:09:37   so that's what i'm reading is well fine [TS]

01:09:39   weeks before that i read the drowned [TS]

01:09:40   cities which we talked about before [TS]

01:09:42   trying to keep up for the the book that [TS]

01:09:45   i mentioned i read view from the [TS]

01:09:47   Imperium which is a leica space opera [TS]

01:09:50   parody basically these bows and i have a [TS]

01:09:53   book on my kindle now that i should [TS]

01:09:56   mention that it was on sale and maybe [TS]

01:09:58   even still be on sale i don't know but [TS]

01:09:59   you you said on Twitter that if you [TS]

01:10:01   enjoy smart space opera you should get [TS]

01:10:04   Sun of Suns yes i carly schroeder which [TS]

01:10:08   i bought i hope you enjoy it [TS]

01:10:10   alright well Scott I feel like we've [TS]

01:10:12   we've covered the world the depressing [TS]

01:10:14   future the destruction world of Paolo [TS]

01:10:17   Bacigalupi i think i think i I'm a [TS]

01:10:19   little worried about him I think he [TS]

01:10:21   needs to lighten up because i have you [TS]

01:10:24   seen his twitter account is why this [TS]

01:10:25   girl is icon is a is a Mexican wrestler [TS]

01:10:28   mask i did he's also maybe that is made [TS]

01:10:31   so it's fun yeah it's kinda started but [TS]

01:10:33   I read his i should say i read his short [TS]

01:10:35   story collection pump six which is also [TS]

01:10:37   good but again really depressing because [TS]

01:10:42   it's the same stuff it is the it is the [TS]

01:10:44   terrible you know eco catastrophe peak [TS]

01:10:48   oil [TS]

01:10:49   yeah exactly had so i will close up the [TS]

01:10:51   book club for this time and thank [TS]

01:10:54   serenity caldwell who has left us [TS]

01:10:56   because she didn't read she's right now [TS]

01:10:57   reading the drowned cities and learning [TS]

01:11:01   about [TS]

01:11:01   about the psychology of half-man tool [TS]

01:11:04   and and scalability thank you so much [TS]

01:11:07   for being here and and reading both [TS]

01:11:08   books and turning me on to ship breaker [TS]

01:11:10   in the first place [TS]

01:11:11   you're welcome i take all the credit for [TS]

01:11:12   any good book you've ever read and I'm [TS]

01:11:15   glad that we got to got to the drowned [TS]

01:11:17   cities before you'd forgotten what was [TS]

01:11:18   in it I that I'm also glad that because [TS]

01:11:23   i read is what happens is i read so much [TS]

01:11:24   we decide on a book that we're going to [TS]

01:11:26   talk about so i think i have to read [TS]

01:11:29   this immediately and then not thinking [TS]

01:11:31   oh it's probably like a month or two [TS]

01:11:32   before we actually talked about is [TS]

01:11:34   everybody else has to read it to exactly [TS]

01:11:36   and then I forget everything right so [TS]

01:11:39   you so we got at this time we did [TS]

01:11:41   I've only read two books since I read [TS]

01:11:43   the drowned cities and i should say for [TS]

01:11:45   the those people out there who want to [TS]

01:11:46   join the the incomparable book club you [TS]

01:11:50   can find us on goodreads later on we are [TS]

01:11:53   on the good [TS]

01:11:54   goodreads and our next book club [TS]

01:11:58   selection is going to be the hugo [TS]

01:12:01   nominees so if you search for Hugo 2012 [TS]

01:12:06   i believe you will find the hugo [TS]

01:12:08   nominees but uh you know as we said they [TS]

01:12:11   are a dance with dragons by george RR [TS]

01:12:13   martin among others by Joe Walton both [TS]

01:12:17   of which we've talked about a little bit [TS]

01:12:18   embassy town by China Mieville which we [TS]

01:12:21   had a whole podcast about that you can [TS]

01:12:22   listen to if you like and the two that i [TS]

01:12:26   have not yet read Leviathan wakes which [TS]

01:12:28   i'm reading now which is by James sa [TS]

01:12:32   Corey just not a real person not a real [TS]

01:12:37   person and me and deadlines which is by [TS]

01:12:40   mira grant also not a real person it's [TS]

01:12:43   true and that's the sequel to feed and [TS]

01:12:45   I'm just saying [TS]

01:12:46   for those of you who hate us beating up [TS]

01:12:47   on feed but I'm sorry for those of us [TS]

01:12:50   who love love to hear the beating up on [TS]

01:12:54   feed we're going to read the sequel and [TS]

01:12:57   then we're going to talk about it so [TS]

01:12:59   it's very exciting [TS]

01:13:01   true i would say what I thought about [TS]

01:13:03   the sea no notes on the toilet [TS]

01:13:05   no I'm sure you loved it [TS]

01:13:07   it was really good liar [TS]

01:13:13   alright until that that forthcoming in a [TS]

01:13:16   few weeks Hugo special book club [TS]

01:13:19   this is jason sell for the uncomfortable [TS]

01:13:21   thanks for listening thanks for tuning [TS]

01:13:23   in to our book club and making Scott [TS]

01:13:25   night field less lonely tonight [TS]

01:13:31   [Music] [TS]