The Incomparable

91: The Hungry Tributes of Catan


00:00:00   the comfortable podcast number 91 may [TS]

00:00:11   [Music] [TS]

00:00:12   welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:14   I'm Jason Snelling your host and our [TS]

00:00:17   topic on this edition of the [TS]

00:00:19   incomparable is the phenomenon known as [TS]

00:00:22   The Hunger Games which is which began as [TS]

00:00:27   a series of novels by suzanne collins [TS]

00:00:29   trilogy of and then recently was made [TS]

00:00:33   into a major motion picture as they say [TS]

00:00:36   which made it a whole lot of money [TS]

00:00:38   directed by gary ross and starring [TS]

00:00:41   Jennifer Lawrence among others [TS]

00:00:43   so we're going to talk about The Hunger [TS]

00:00:45   Games the book The Hunger Games them the [TS]

00:00:47   movie we will fire off the spoiler horn [TS]

00:00:50   and talk about the sequels to the hunger [TS]

00:00:53   games book and joining me to talk [TS]

00:00:57   everything [TS]

00:00:58   Katniss Everdeen are my guests too [TS]

00:01:02   delightful guests or softly Schmeisser [TS]

00:01:04   hi Lisa thanks for being here thanks for [TS]

00:01:06   having me and also serenity Caldwell hi [TS]

00:01:09   red [TS]

00:01:10   hello alright so the hunger games now I [TS]

00:01:14   my story with the hunger games is that [TS]

00:01:15   my wife was read the issues that she's a [TS]

00:01:18   librarian and and she works at the [TS]

00:01:20   Children's Library she reads a lot of [TS]

00:01:21   children and young adult books and she [TS]

00:01:23   enjoyed these books and was very excited [TS]

00:01:26   to see the movie and she demanded that i [TS]

00:01:29   read that i read the books before the [TS]

00:01:32   movie came out so that we could go see [TS]

00:01:33   the movie with me having properly read [TS]

00:01:35   the book first as one is supposed to do [TS]

00:01:37   so i did in fact I read all three in the [TS]

00:01:40   course of a couple of weeks so you know [TS]

00:01:43   that was my introduction to this series [TS]

00:01:45   what about you guys uh were you both the [TS]

00:01:48   readers of the books before you saw the [TS]

00:01:50   movie i had heard bits and pieces about [TS]

00:01:54   the hunger games and i want to say [TS]

00:01:55   December of 2010 or November 2010 the [TS]

00:01:59   third book in the series had just come [TS]

00:02:01   out and a friend of mine i had basically [TS]

00:02:04   written this long very very long blog [TS]

00:02:08   post about how crushed she was a [TS]

00:02:11   office about book 3 and not necessarily [TS]

00:02:13   you know we'll get into later i'm sure [TS]

00:02:15   the highs and lows of the the end of [TS]

00:02:18   this trilogy but I read enough to [TS]

00:02:22   realize like this could potentially be a [TS]

00:02:24   really interesting book so over the [TS]

00:02:27   winter holidays that year i think i got [TS]

00:02:29   home in los angeles on december twenty [TS]

00:02:32   fourth and i had bought the original the [TS]

00:02:34   hunger games the first book in theory to [TS]

00:02:37   give to my sister as a christmas present [TS]

00:02:39   and on my way home I mean it's easy [TS]

00:02:45   sitting here she won't notice if I've [TS]

00:02:47   read it before I wrap it and give it to [TS]

00:02:49   her so I read that book in 12 hours and [TS]

00:02:54   then the beauty of being able to get [TS]

00:02:57   books on the internet instead of having [TS]

00:02:58   to wait until the bookstore opens the [TS]

00:03:00   next day is that on Christmas Eve and [TS]

00:03:03   Christmas Day i read catching fire and [TS]

00:03:06   mockingjay respectively on my kindle so [TS]

00:03:09   I managed to get through things [TS]

00:03:11   basically the entire book in a weekend [TS]

00:03:13   which was a very mostly after dark too [TS]

00:03:17   so it was a very weird rushed way to [TS]

00:03:20   read this series which I actually think [TS]

00:03:21   kind of fits well with the weird crazy [TS]

00:03:25   things that go on to it but yeah it was [TS]

00:03:28   kind of by accident but I mean I you [TS]

00:03:32   know there are different there are [TS]

00:03:33   things that we can talk about later with [TS]

00:03:35   the books in terms of their strengths [TS]

00:03:37   and weaknesses but it was definitely use [TS]

00:03:39   a refreshing little series to read and [TS]

00:03:42   definitely better than some other young [TS]

00:03:44   adult that i've read recently about you [TS]

00:03:47   Lisa [TS]

00:03:49   indulging in a little bit of personal [TS]

00:03:51   history on august 12 2010 my husband my [TS]

00:03:55   celebrated our tenth wedding anniversary [TS]

00:03:57   and we had originally planned on going [TS]

00:04:00   to Paris but I had just entered my third [TS]

00:04:02   trimester pregnancy so that the Paris [TS]

00:04:06   trip and be put on hold and Phil gave me [TS]

00:04:09   a candle for my anniversary present [TS]

00:04:11   instead I have some girlfriends who ry a [TS]

00:04:14   librarians and had talked about the [TS]

00:04:17   first two books in the series and they [TS]

00:04:19   noted that Mockingjay was coming out on [TS]

00:04:21   an August twenty-fourth 2010 and so what [TS]

00:04:25   I did is I actually downloaded all three [TS]

00:04:26   books on the day the Mockingjay dropped [TS]

00:04:29   and then spent the next week and propped [TS]

00:04:31   up on the couch learning how to use my [TS]

00:04:32   kindle and ready through those those [TS]

00:04:34   three books over and over again so I i'm [TS]

00:04:38   hella been one great go up over a [TS]

00:04:39   weekend and you know later up and over [TS]

00:04:43   the next 18 months I've nursed my [TS]

00:04:44   daughter and rocked her down I will [TS]

00:04:46   occasionally read snatches here and [TS]

00:04:47   there to myself and before the first [TS]

00:04:49   movie came out i did go back and reread [TS]

00:04:52   the original book just because I like to [TS]

00:04:54   see how movie adaptations what they keep [TS]

00:04:57   what they don't and I'm better able to [TS]

00:04:59   jump that when the source material is [TS]

00:05:00   still pretty fresh and the books are [TS]

00:05:02   really fast early and so it's just [TS]

00:05:03   easier to work through the matter of [TS]

00:05:05   hours [TS]

00:05:06   yeah well that's into it it's good to [TS]

00:05:08   know that we all read the book before [TS]

00:05:10   the movie and in my case very [TS]

00:05:12   specifically which which is actually my [TS]

00:05:15   my story with them my story with a game [TS]

00:05:19   of thrones to as i heard it was gonna be [TS]

00:05:20   made into a HBO series and so I started [TS]

00:05:23   reading the george RR martin books of [TS]

00:05:24   course I've read them all by the time [TS]

00:05:26   the show come on [TS]

00:05:26   so I was way ahead by the time the show [TS]

00:05:28   came on the air but anyway so so the [TS]

00:05:30   hunger games so so let's uh let's start [TS]

00:05:33   with the book itself you know this is a [TS]

00:05:36   this is a story if you if you are [TS]

00:05:37   listening and do not know it's a sort of [TS]

00:05:40   post-apocalyptic story about it said [TS]

00:05:44   North America where the United States [TS]

00:05:45   used to exist but now it's the it's the [TS]

00:05:48   country of Panama and there are multiple [TS]

00:05:50   districts run by a capital which is an [TS]

00:05:52   advanced city in the rocky mountains and [TS]

00:05:55   if they're sort of the cruel overlords [TS]

00:05:57   of the of the of the the country and [TS]

00:06:03   a mine and take all the resources from [TS]

00:06:06   all the different districts and you know [TS]

00:06:08   they live large while the district [TS]

00:06:10   suffer and just to remind them with [TS]

00:06:13   their places they hold these annual [TS]

00:06:16   Hunger Games where it's a enjoyable [TS]

00:06:19   reality-tv kind of competition where [TS]

00:06:21   everybody dies except one the 24 young [TS]

00:06:23   people go let it go in one comes out [TS]

00:06:25   that one person is applauded and the [TS]

00:06:27   other 23 or dead there awhile everybody [TS]

00:06:30   watches so we're here we've got we've [TS]

00:06:32   had some political issues we've got [TS]

00:06:35   we've got a commentary about reality [TS]

00:06:38   television [TS]

00:06:39   there's lots of stuff going on which is [TS]

00:06:41   interesting for a book that is you know [TS]

00:06:42   it's a young adult book it's also you [TS]

00:06:44   know it's kinda kind of gruesome in the [TS]

00:06:46   sense that you know there are lots of [TS]

00:06:48   people who died horrible deaths a young [TS]

00:06:52   people who died horrible deaths in the [TS]

00:06:53   course of this book then actually Jason [TS]

00:06:55   you've touched on something that was one [TS]

00:06:56   of my favorite time establishing details [TS]

00:06:59   in the movie can we talk about that too [TS]

00:07:00   at the same time [TS]

00:07:01   yeah I'm what one of my favorite [TS]

00:07:03   establishing details that you see in the [TS]

00:07:06   in the act one where it's setting up [TS]

00:07:07   though the world of the capital and so [TS]

00:07:09   on and so forth is between stanley tucci [TS]

00:07:11   and toby jones who are playing [TS]

00:07:14   respectively Caesar Flickerman and not a [TS]

00:07:17   simple Smith but they're playing the two [TS]

00:07:20   people who are basically the the live [TS]

00:07:22   mcs the the ryan seacrest's of the [TS]

00:07:24   hunger games that were and on spit it in [TS]

00:07:27   on screen you see this really horrible [TS]

00:07:29   murder that's about to take place as one [TS]

00:07:32   child has pinned on another he's about [TS]

00:07:33   to bashing his head with a brick and [TS]

00:07:35   stanley tucci says in this really banal [TS]

00:07:38   very again Ryan Seacrest edelivery and [TS]

00:07:43   here we see the moment where a [TS]

00:07:45   contestant is about to become a victor [TS]

00:07:48   and in San Fair plays and it's such a [TS]

00:07:52   stunning overlay of the will full [TS]

00:07:55   version of a narrative in the media [TS]

00:07:58   where they're telling you what you're [TS]

00:08:00   watching as opposed to what you are [TS]

00:08:01   actually watching which is one child [TS]

00:08:03   desperately fighting for its life as [TS]

00:08:05   another one tries to kill him [TS]

00:08:06   um and again beautiful establishing [TS]

00:08:09   detail and that's something that happens [TS]

00:08:10   a lot of the books 2 i'm one of the [TS]

00:08:12   things that struck me in the first book [TS]

00:08:13   repeatedly is how casually Katniss [TS]

00:08:16   first to all of the myriad ways people [TS]

00:08:18   died in previous games you know because [TS]

00:08:21   she makes offhanded references to the [TS]

00:08:22   Year everybody died of dehydration in [TS]

00:08:25   the desert or the everybody froze to [TS]

00:08:27   death or the year there was a volcano [TS]

00:08:28   and somebody got decapitated and there's [TS]

00:08:31   it's just the matter of fact this with [TS]

00:08:33   oh yes every year we have to watch [TS]

00:08:35   people horribly die [TS]

00:08:36   boom it's it's it's like a walking case [TS]

00:08:38   of PTSD and that's only like the first [TS]

00:08:40   few chapters of the book and we get [TS]

00:08:44   introduced to the world far before we [TS]

00:08:46   actually get placed in the games [TS]

00:08:48   themselves and i know some people who [TS]

00:08:50   hadn't read the books and saw the film [TS]

00:08:53   and they're like why you know we get so [TS]

00:08:55   much of the preparation and so little of [TS]

00:08:57   the games themselves and I think that's [TS]

00:08:59   largely to make a point where it's like [TS]

00:09:01   we you know the movie although it's been [TS]

00:09:04   in the books have even compared to [TS]

00:09:07   battle royale it's really not about the [TS]

00:09:09   children fighting it's about the [TS]

00:09:10   psychology of everything behind it it's [TS]

00:09:14   about this you know its expenses [TS]

00:09:16   packaging too because yeah because [TS]

00:09:19   because when you think about it it's the [TS]

00:09:21   biggest damn Khan that anybody could [TS]

00:09:24   possibly run because I want it I i [TS]

00:09:28   realize that part of the the horror of [TS]

00:09:30   the Hunger Games is supposed to be the [TS]

00:09:32   gap between how it sold to its pampered [TS]

00:09:33   citizens of the capital as a no it's a [TS]

00:09:35   reality show with these brave tributes [TS]

00:09:37   and so on and so forth versus what it [TS]

00:09:38   actually is [TS]

00:09:39   which is state-sanctioned murder but [TS]

00:09:42   what I think she focuses on excessively [TS]

00:09:44   or the way that the tributes are our [TS]

00:09:46   buffed and polished and brought up to [TS]

00:09:47   capital standards and and and that's [TS]

00:09:50   part of the narrative that the makeover [TS]

00:09:51   narrative which is a convention of [TS]

00:09:53   reality TV and then there's the training [TS]

00:09:55   narrative which is another thing that's [TS]

00:09:56   pretty popular like in Survivor Amazing [TS]

00:09:58   Grace and and I think she has a lot of [TS]

00:10:01   really trench and things to say about [TS]

00:10:03   the way we package even our news as as a [TS]

00:10:07   moral entertainment [TS]

00:10:08   I think she did say that she was [TS]

00:10:10   inspired to write the books after [TS]

00:10:11   looking at how we covered um how the US [TS]

00:10:14   media covered wars in Afghanistan and [TS]

00:10:16   Iraq and in contrast that against the [TS]

00:10:19   the boom in reality TV that was taking [TS]

00:10:21   place at the same time are definitely [TS]

00:10:23   media satire is a huge threat of this is [TS]

00:10:26   it is it goes into the manufacturing of [TS]

00:10:28   contest [TS]

00:10:29   it's in the creation of storylines yes [TS]

00:10:31   and in fact it's even echoed I i was [TS]

00:10:35   reminded while reading it the of how you [TS]

00:10:39   take you take sort of a pure premise and [TS]

00:10:41   then over time in order to keep people [TS]

00:10:43   interested you have to modify it so in [TS]

00:10:45   in the hunger games that i was always [TS]

00:10:47   structed you know the way I envisioned [TS]

00:10:49   it when once they start to play it you [TS]

00:10:50   see that there's this pandering to [TS]

00:10:52   sponsors where they will actually drop [TS]

00:10:54   in you know gifts which changed the [TS]

00:10:57   course of the game and of course the [TS]

00:11:00   gamemaster does things and this is much [TS]

00:11:03   I I thought much more clear in the movie [TS]

00:11:05   that that there are even more [TS]

00:11:06   aggressively middle manipulative about [TS]

00:11:07   what's going on to get what they want [TS]

00:11:09   but also you know people have to do what [TS]

00:11:12   they want to do in front of the camera [TS]

00:11:13   to get to get the right result from the [TS]

00:11:16   producers and i will remind me of is [TS]

00:11:19   like on Survivor originally that show [TS]

00:11:22   had a very clear set of rules and then [TS]

00:11:24   over time it's like well we'll throw in [TS]

00:11:26   this rule will throw in that role in [TS]

00:11:27   what will be able to have a you know an [TS]

00:11:29   exile Island and you'll have a tiki idol [TS]

00:11:32   that you can hold that makes you immune [TS]

00:11:33   and it just became incredibly complex [TS]

00:11:36   and american idol the same way they [TS]

00:11:38   added the ability for judges to save a [TS]

00:11:40   contestant who lost the vote and and and [TS]

00:11:43   that it really reminded me of that when [TS]

00:11:45   i was reading Hunger Games that not only [TS]

00:11:47   is this about media construction but [TS]

00:11:50   it's about a a something that started [TS]

00:11:53   out as a more straightforward [TS]

00:11:54   competition that has had to be that in [TS]

00:11:56   itself that this terrible competition [TS]

00:11:58   has been corrupted because they have to [TS]

00:12:00   they have to keep the interest and keep [TS]

00:12:01   the drama and and it's you know it's not [TS]

00:12:04   even a fair competition anymore they're [TS]

00:12:07   there that even that has gone by the [TS]

00:12:09   wayside like they talk about how i'm [TS]

00:12:11   going in that the people from district 1 [TS]

00:12:13   and 2 3 maybe evidence for that the [TS]

00:12:16   first closest districts to the capital [TS]

00:12:20   you're not supposed to raise people to [TS]

00:12:21   be tributes to to be in the hunger games [TS]

00:12:23   but they do and everybody knows they do [TS]

00:12:25   and those ones usually win and so so [TS]

00:12:28   even there even in this and you know [TS]

00:12:30   it's a corrupt society with this this [TS]

00:12:32   game at its heart and even the game is [TS]

00:12:34   completely corrupt even the thing that [TS]

00:12:37   should have been like sort of you know [TS]

00:12:39   you could you be like well okay you're [TS]

00:12:41   terrible and you're gonna make me die [TS]

00:12:42   but [TS]

00:12:43   at least I got a fighting chance like no [TS]

00:12:44   you don't even have that actually the [TS]

00:12:47   premise of the professional tributes or [TS]

00:12:49   what they call the careers she draws a [TS]

00:12:51   line in the book where it's okay because [TS]

00:12:53   districts 12 and four have had a lot of [TS]

00:12:56   tributes when do they have a cold [TS]

00:12:58   culture of career tributes whereas [TS]

00:13:00   districts like 12 11 the rest of her [TS]

00:13:03   super poor go they don't that really [TS]

00:13:06   doesn't make sense from a from a [TS]

00:13:09   resource resources perspective because I [TS]

00:13:12   would think if you're if you're really [TS]

00:13:14   poor district somebody add at a local [TS]

00:13:17   level is going to make the calculation [TS]

00:13:19   that it makes sense to cultivate some [TS]

00:13:21   children to go out and fight to the [TS]

00:13:23   death for you so that your entire [TS]

00:13:25   district can get allotments and so why [TS]

00:13:27   wouldn't you pull your resources and and [TS]

00:13:30   try to and try to build up strong strong [TS]

00:13:32   candidates in the poor districts in the [TS]

00:13:34   hope of reallocate those resources [TS]

00:13:35   rather than just say okay here's two or [TS]

00:13:37   three districts that are always going to [TS]

00:13:38   win [TS]

00:13:39   off you go kids go die um it doesn't it [TS]

00:13:42   doesn't make sense especially in a [TS]

00:13:43   culture where they've had 75 years to [TS]

00:13:45   get used to the games you think at this [TS]

00:13:46   point you would have had somebody in one [TS]

00:13:48   of the districts that said alright let's [TS]

00:13:49   start taking a look at our ten-year olds [TS]

00:13:51   and and figure out which ones we can [TS]

00:13:52   turn to blood foreseeable killers and [TS]

00:13:55   after a few years this dish and pan out [TS]

00:13:57   for us [TS]

00:13:57   I mean it really depends on the makeup [TS]

00:14:00   of the district's to is that I think [TS]

00:14:02   that a large reason why districts 12 and [TS]

00:14:05   four have the career tribute is not [TS]

00:14:07   necessarily just that oh they decided [TS]

00:14:09   that it would be a good plan to to start [TS]

00:14:11   up schools it's that what they make for [TS]

00:14:14   the capital is largely a lot easier i [TS]

00:14:18   want to say like what district district [TS]

00:14:21   one makes jewelry or luxury goods yeah [TS]

00:14:24   luxury goods & district for makes [TS]

00:14:27   fishing or does fishing and yes or two [TS]

00:14:29   is in charge of masonry I kind of got [TS]

00:14:33   the picture that the poor districts are [TS]

00:14:36   horror primarily because their children [TS]

00:14:38   are having two more or less illegally [TS]

00:14:40   work to keep things that status quo i [TS]

00:14:44   actually have the Hunger Games tribute [TS]

00:14:46   guide which is not my meat I'm not [TS]

00:14:48   kiddin my 14 year old niece is a huge [TS]

00:14:50   fan and she let me borrow it for the [TS]

00:14:51   sake of this podcast and the tribute [TS]

00:14:53   guide is actually written like a piece [TS]

00:14:55   of propaganda for [TS]

00:14:56   a citizen of the capital you know for [TS]

00:14:58   example they describe the reaping they [TS]

00:15:00   describe it as festive and they talk [TS]

00:15:02   about how awesome every trick it is but [TS]

00:15:04   they break down the did they break down [TS]

00:15:05   the districts and what they make and [TS]

00:15:07   this might be according to the movies [TS]

00:15:08   but yea district 1 is the luxury goods [TS]

00:15:10   district district who does masonry [TS]

00:15:12   district 3 is technology these are the [TS]

00:15:15   people who are taught from an early age [TS]

00:15:16   how to program computers how to get out [TS]

00:15:18   how to make circuit like that district 4 [TS]

00:15:20   is fishing district 5 is your power [TS]

00:15:23   district district 6 is allegedly [TS]

00:15:25   transportation [TS]

00:15:26   where is the guide notes ironically the [TS]

00:15:29   citizens your help little love for [TS]

00:15:30   travel district 7 as lumber district 8 [TS]

00:15:34   is textiles district nine is grain [TS]

00:15:36   district 10 as livestock district 11 as [TS]

00:15:38   agriculture district was mining so so I [TS]

00:15:41   takes the release point that some of [TS]

00:15:43   these districts like basically district [TS]

00:15:45   nine through eleven with sugar and [TS]

00:15:46   districts [TS]

00:15:47   I mean the kids are probably working the [TS]

00:15:49   fields all day but the problem I have [TS]

00:15:51   with these districts is there so [TS]

00:15:53   simplified that I mean have you read it [TS]

00:15:55   like that it really I feel like we're [TS]

00:15:57   watching a game of settlers of catan you [TS]

00:15:59   like that it's like the hungry [TS]

00:16:01   tributes of catan i didn't had gone [TS]

00:16:03   horribly horribly wrong and the people [TS]

00:16:05   who make the lumber and the claim have [TS]

00:16:07   25 each other [TS]

00:16:08   oh yeah and but it you know this [TS]

00:16:12   district that the Katniss is from it's [TS]

00:16:16   like a town in the in the mountains with [TS]

00:16:20   like a few people it I I struggle I find [TS]

00:16:24   the setting of of the this book I guess [TS]

00:16:27   I'm kind of unbelievable that uh that it [TS]

00:16:31   seems to fall apart if you try to think [TS]

00:16:33   about it too much because district 12 is [TS]

00:16:36   a Dorothea Lange photograph and yeah [TS]

00:16:38   just to justice will be out of town up [TS]

00:16:40   and you know up in the up in the [TS]

00:16:41   mountains north carolina foothills yeah [TS]

00:16:44   i understand from this is that i mean [TS]

00:16:46   the the whole premise of the the wide [TS]

00:16:49   world of Penn m is it's basically [TS]

00:16:50   post-apocalyptic post-apocalyptic USA [TS]

00:16:53   where nukes were dropped bad endings [TS]

00:16:57   happened and basically the entire world [TS]

00:17:00   water levels really so that the [TS]

00:17:01   batteries of the u.s. aren't what they [TS]

00:17:02   used to be so yeah the way that I kind [TS]

00:17:06   of interpret the district is [TS]

00:17:08   that initially you can say oh the [TS]

00:17:11   districts are the equivalent of states [TS]

00:17:13   and there are only 12 states and then [TS]

00:17:15   the capital is a state within itself but [TS]

00:17:18   as i continue to read the books i think [TS]

00:17:20   i get more of the feeling that the [TS]

00:17:22   district's our cities and that's really [TS]

00:17:24   like the only safe places that they're [TS]

00:17:26   supposedly are in penn mr just these [TS]

00:17:28   twelve cities because everything else [TS]

00:17:30   has been so blasted by radiation or and [TS]

00:17:33   by just you know unhappy one Hospital [TS]

00:17:36   uninhabitable situations or at least [TS]

00:17:39   that's the propaganda I kind of took the [TS]

00:17:41   parallel for the Soviet Union to because [TS]

00:17:44   back in back in the days of the old [TS]

00:17:46   Soviet republics they did try to [TS]

00:17:47   cultivate a tourist train and one and a [TS]

00:17:50   natural gas trade and another and an oil [TS]

00:17:53   trading third and you know that lumber [TS]

00:17:57   up and up and you know up in the north [TS]

00:17:59   and things like that and granted we saw [TS]

00:18:01   how well that model did not work because [TS]

00:18:03   um it seems like a really effective way [TS]

00:18:07   to to brutalize the updated to brutalize [TS]

00:18:09   it up people to is to point out that you [TS]

00:18:11   know you have no chance of mobility you [TS]

00:18:13   were born a farmer you're gonna die a [TS]

00:18:14   farmer and the state needs your food [TS]

00:18:18   sure figuratively that makes sense [TS]

00:18:20   understanding you want to try to look at [TS]

00:18:21   this logically I and how you talk about [TS]

00:18:23   the travel times between the different [TS]

00:18:25   zones and all that it's sort of you know [TS]

00:18:27   it's like she wants to tell me dammit [TS]

00:18:29   story about what's happening in these [TS]

00:18:30   districts and yet you know it i would [TS]

00:18:33   have understood if they had said that [TS]

00:18:34   district 12 is a you know is a bunch of [TS]

00:18:38   mining towns up and down this entire [TS]

00:18:39   mountain range and she's from one town [TS]

00:18:41   that happens to be near the seat of it [TS]

00:18:44   and you know their one little cog in the [TS]

00:18:46   wheel of this district that's mining [TS]

00:18:47   that's apparently is literally like you [TS]

00:18:49   got a small town here up in the [TS]

00:18:51   mountains there's 100 people and this is [TS]

00:18:53   where the whole district right here it's [TS]

00:18:54   a no-no how yeah that's yeah it's not [TS]

00:18:57   you know but that's ok if this is just a [TS]

00:18:59   lot of hand waving with the technology [TS]

00:19:01   to because it if they have these [TS]

00:19:03   hardscrabble existence is where they [TS]

00:19:04   wash out of bases and then we're on a [TS]

00:19:06   train and order the Rockies and magnetic [TS]

00:19:08   levitation is you know it's it's she's [TS]

00:19:11   the point here is not is not to take it [TS]

00:19:13   too literally the point here is that [TS]

00:19:14   she's making media satire and she's [TS]

00:19:15   making political satire she's talking [TS]

00:19:17   about uh you know in many ways this is [TS]

00:19:20   like um 1984 [TS]

00:19:22   or as as young adult fiction it its it [TS]

00:19:26   and and I was actually impressed as I [TS]

00:19:29   read the sequences in the capital of [TS]

00:19:31   course in the in the success of books [TS]

00:19:33   you get more of this to that that this [TS]

00:19:35   is you know this is the flash the flashy [TS]

00:19:38   story is about the the tributes going [TS]

00:19:40   down into the into the arena but it you [TS]

00:19:43   know it's really a story about a [TS]

00:19:44   totalitarian government and depressing [TS]

00:19:46   its people and ended that way I thought [TS]

00:19:48   it was like oh this is like you know my [TS]

00:19:50   little golden book 1984 which is nice [TS]

00:19:53   and subversive and i like that would [TS]

00:19:55   have the place as as goofy as some of [TS]

00:19:57   the technology does I can kind of [TS]

00:20:00   explain it away in my head logistical e [TS]

00:20:02   but yeah I mean it's definitely the [TS]

00:20:05   hunger games does not set out to be [TS]

00:20:07   super ok we're going to be completely [TS]

00:20:11   factually accurate about what would [TS]

00:20:13   happen in the case of a post a lot of [TS]

00:20:15   post-apocalyptic United States but I [TS]

00:20:19   mean they have a lot of this that said [TS]

00:20:22   she plays with a lot of really strange [TS]

00:20:24   and fascinating technology the game can [TS]

00:20:28   we talk about the game for a second just [TS]

00:20:30   the actual Hunger Games and the okay [TS]

00:20:33   yeah he has to start firing up a spoiler [TS]

00:20:36   horn so the pediatric well yeah we're [TS]

00:20:38   going to talk about the I feel [TS]

00:20:40   constrained don't know we yes exactly [TS]

00:20:42   right [TS]

00:20:43   [Music] [TS]

00:20:46   we're going to talk freely about the [TS]

00:20:47   first book in the movie we will warn [TS]

00:20:49   people before we talk about the sequel's [TS]

00:20:51   so go for it [TS]

00:20:53   ray ok so talking about the way let's [TS]

00:20:57   let's get into the killing the hundred [TS]

00:21:00   games themselves at heinz oh yeah Jason [TS]

00:21:06   yeah well she wins for this book so I [TS]

00:21:11   really love the light love is a weird [TS]

00:21:15   word to use about kids killing each [TS]

00:21:17   other in a in a crazy what Truman Show [TS]

00:21:21   like dome but i love the technology [TS]

00:21:25   behind the hunger games like I love that [TS]

00:21:27   it's basically a giant virtual [TS]

00:21:30   chessboard for this group of engineers [TS]

00:21:33   and you don't really get to see that in [TS]

00:21:34   the books you know because it's all from [TS]

00:21:37   Katniss's point of view so you can only [TS]

00:21:39   really interact with the technology [TS]

00:21:40   through her eyes so you hear about the [TS]

00:21:43   the mutations or the blood tests much [TS]

00:21:46   imagination [TS]

00:21:47   yeah yeah mutations which i always want [TS]

00:21:50   to pronounce as much seoeon's because i [TS]

00:21:53   don't know why it is because they are [TS]

00:21:54   French yes so even want to show friends [TS]

00:21:58   friends will tell you we are doing [TS]

00:22:00   people we do not like that'll happen so [TS]

00:22:03   income like in comparison to the film i [TS]

00:22:07   really like that we get to see seneca [TS]

00:22:09   cranes big headquarters and we get more [TS]

00:22:11   interaction you know we get to see the [TS]

00:22:13   engineers building the the dogs like oh [TS]

00:22:15   yeah let's let's place that here let's [TS]

00:22:18   make a tree fall it's not first person [TS]

00:22:20   that I i think that's a huge strength of [TS]

00:22:21   the of the movie is that it we are not [TS]

00:22:24   locked in Katniss's perspective for the [TS]

00:22:26   entire thing we can't see the story [TS]

00:22:28   being planted that so I found myself [TS]

00:22:30   really digging for that in in the whole [TS]

00:22:32   series but certainly the movie did it [TS]

00:22:35   will get to it but and certainly the [TS]

00:22:37   movie did a very good job of letting you [TS]

00:22:39   see the game master and the attic and [TS]

00:22:43   the end the politics behind the scenes [TS]

00:22:45   while they're in there that that added a [TS]

00:22:48   huge it was just it was a great thing to [TS]

00:22:50   add into also love coming again they [TS]

00:22:52   illustrate how blithely disconnected the [TS]

00:22:54   capital the capital citizens and the [TS]

00:22:57   capital workers are from the nature of [TS]

00:22:59   the game [TS]

00:22:59   and because you've got these workers who [TS]

00:23:01   are very intently just maneuvering [TS]

00:23:03   things in the board and they're [TS]

00:23:04   obviously jockeying for their boss's [TS]

00:23:05   approval and they clearly don't care [TS]

00:23:09   that what they're basically doing is is [TS]

00:23:11   making it very very easy for children to [TS]

00:23:13   die instead it's like a boss do you want [TS]

00:23:16   me to divert this river yeah that sounds [TS]

00:23:17   great let's move her and and for them [TS]

00:23:20   it's it's it's they're basically [TS]

00:23:21   manipulating pixels that's where it [TS]

00:23:23   begins and ends with them and I i found [TS]

00:23:25   that sense of detachment to be really [TS]

00:23:26   really chilling an effective or more so [TS]

00:23:29   than if you had peeps somebody who came [TS]

00:23:31   in and said hey does it ever bother you [TS]

00:23:33   that we are moving with human beings [TS]

00:23:34   lives know that the fact that nobody did [TS]

00:23:37   that i thought was the best thing that [TS]

00:23:38   could have done that these people don't [TS]

00:23:39   even bother to think about the [TS]

00:23:40   contestants as human beings anymore that [TS]

00:23:43   that part of the story is over and [TS]

00:23:44   they're just chess pieces that they're [TS]

00:23:45   just kids [TS]

00:23:46   what do you think I want to do it no [TS]

00:23:48   that guy already died he was our he was [TS]

00:23:50   executed the 73rd yeah we don't talk [TS]

00:23:53   about him you know actually okay here's [TS]

00:23:55   a question about prior Hunger Games how [TS]

00:23:58   come nobody ever tried civil [TS]

00:23:59   disobedience where were like all the [TS]

00:24:01   contestants just that all right you know [TS]

00:24:02   what we're not participating we're just [TS]

00:24:03   gonna hang out the Cornucopia and hold [TS]

00:24:05   hands [TS]

00:24:06   you know because if it's televised the [TS]

00:24:08   capital is in a position where either [TS]

00:24:11   they're going to have to start killing [TS]

00:24:12   off the contestants families or the [TS]

00:24:13   great circle have two contestants on [TS]

00:24:15   live TV like it never occurred to [TS]

00:24:16   anybody to to rally up the other the [TS]

00:24:20   other tributes and say we're not going [TS]

00:24:21   to participate [TS]

00:24:22   everyone goes in this with the [TS]

00:24:23   assumption they have to participate and [TS]

00:24:25   I can't believe that in 74 years nobody [TS]

00:24:28   ever tried it differently [TS]

00:24:29   I suspect they have but i also suspect [TS]

00:24:31   you know you have districts 12 and four [TS]

00:24:35   you have the career tribute to have [TS]

00:24:36   people who think oh well what if that's [TS]

00:24:39   a trap and they're just saying let's [TS]

00:24:41   hold hands so one of us you know can [TS]

00:24:43   drop down with a machete and kill [TS]

00:24:44   everybody [TS]

00:24:45   that's the absolute the the hunger games [TS]

00:24:47   where everybody died of dehydration [TS]

00:24:49   who's to say that they didn't its [TS]

00:24:51   channel refuse to fight and so they just [TS]

00:24:53   turn up the heat and and tried to see if [TS]

00:24:55   they could make them fight until they [TS]

00:24:57   all dropped right now I also think [TS]

00:24:58   you're right the capital could have been [TS]

00:25:00   manipulating the narrative so [TS]

00:25:01   there-there is that i have millions of [TS]

00:25:03   cameras and I mean the hunger games is [TS]

00:25:05   but even in this one starts off with [TS]

00:25:07   lots of allies and friendships among the [TS]

00:25:11   contestants until it gets down [TS]

00:25:12   2 2 or 3 so what's to say that they [TS]

00:25:15   don't start it off as oh yeah all 24 [TS]

00:25:17   let's see how they slowly turn against [TS]

00:25:20   each other I mean that's typical reality [TS]

00:25:22   television isn't it you put everybody in [TS]

00:25:24   the house when you watch them crack [TS]

00:25:26   basically and the the beauty of the they [TS]

00:25:29   could have made it 24 wonder what did we [TS]

00:25:33   learn from the first season of survivor [TS]

00:25:35   is alliances are formed even though you [TS]

00:25:38   know there can only be one winner and so [TS]

00:25:40   that happens here and that's also [TS]

00:25:41   fascinating the idea that we're going to [TS]

00:25:43   join together and work together for some [TS]

00:25:45   unknown period of time and then we'll [TS]

00:25:46   turn on each other and and kill each [TS]

00:25:48   other and that's a natural kind of thing [TS]

00:25:50   so you end up getting the oh well world [TS]

00:25:53   could work together but you know that in [TS]

00:25:54   the end [TS]

00:25:56   something's gonna happen and that for me [TS]

00:25:58   that was a lot of big drama in watching [TS]

00:26:00   what was happening with with Katniss was [TS]

00:26:03   you know she when she teams up with roo [TS]

00:26:05   um there is an underlying fear there and [TS]

00:26:09   and likewise with pita that up until [TS]

00:26:11   they change the rules in the middle of [TS]

00:26:12   the game which always seemed really [TS]

00:26:14   kinky to me that the big fear is what if [TS]

00:26:17   we're too successful because if we're to [TS]

00:26:18   successful we will be the last two and [TS]

00:26:20   then one of us has to kill the other one [TS]

00:26:22   right i mean that's like a fascinating [TS]

00:26:24   kind of alternate like sidebar fear that [TS]

00:26:27   is what if we win because then my buddy [TS]

00:26:30   I I you know I hope my buddy dies [TS]

00:26:31   accidentally by a stray arrow but before [TS]

00:26:34   we get to the end because i don't have [TS]

00:26:35   to kill her [TS]

00:26:36   well did they chichi handle she has that [TS]

00:26:38   scenario kind of it in with a little bit [TS]

00:26:41   of back story book number two which will [TS]

00:26:42   get to when we get to it but that goes [TS]

00:26:45   through cause you're like oh gosh what [TS]

00:26:47   is cat is going to do about room later [TS]

00:26:48   on and and well actually someone did [TS]

00:26:50   before so this other whatever you know [TS]

00:26:55   i-i-i again sweet character i can i can [TS]

00:26:58   i felt a little manipulated [TS]

00:27:01   oh yeah no I mean she's they're entirely [TS]

00:27:03   to stand yell to die in to stand in as a [TS]

00:27:07   figure for Katniss's sister [TS]

00:27:09   yeah and comedian she's painted like [TS]

00:27:12   that from the start [TS]

00:27:13   oh yeah but because of the only person [TS]

00:27:15   Katniss cares about and so this is this [TS]

00:27:17   is part of the emotional education of [TS]

00:27:18   katniss everdeen and learning how to [TS]

00:27:20   care about other people to exactly what [TS]

00:27:22   we talked about the the the romance [TS]

00:27:26   aspect here because that was that what I [TS]

00:27:27   was feeling kind of twilit while I was [TS]

00:27:29   reading I have to say I thought that [TS]

00:27:31   this is you know if you're going to [TS]

00:27:33   write a young adult novel [TS]

00:27:35   note to self because I wrote one and I [TS]

00:27:36   didn't do this so this is obviously [TS]

00:27:38   something for the rewrite [TS]

00:27:39   you know you're gonna have the female [TS]

00:27:42   character with the two male characters [TS]

00:27:44   both over its similar and yet different [TS]

00:27:46   no I just can't decide and oh I know it [TS]

00:27:48   must be him no no no it must be him [TS]

00:27:51   no no it must be him instead that is [TS]

00:27:54   like that is a pathway to riches i'll [TS]

00:27:56   tell ya dad drove me with with the with [TS]

00:27:59   now I'm gonna remember there's with Gail [TS]

00:28:01   and Peeta that was you know I i had that [TS]

00:28:04   motor like really really good in a book [TS]

00:28:06   that i really enjoyed that was the [TS]

00:28:07   moment like this feels a little [TS]

00:28:09   calculated to me that I have to have a [TS]

00:28:11   romantic subplot where she's torn and it [TS]

00:28:13   just it felt very much like well it [TS]

00:28:15   worked for twilight let's do it here [TS]

00:28:16   which is why I really enjoy and [TS]

00:28:17   presidents no calls around her patent [TS]

00:28:19   and sincerity towards Peter at the end I [TS]

00:28:22   I thought that was just delightful [TS]

00:28:23   because because he's got her number [TS]

00:28:25   oh yeah he rubs it in oh yeah i think [TS]

00:28:28   it's interesting that in both cases it's [TS]

00:28:30   not that while Gail and Peeta may [TS]

00:28:33   express themselves and their intentions [TS]

00:28:35   towards Katniss she she looked and this [TS]

00:28:38   is my problem because there's not a [TS]

00:28:42   whole lot I i did read that a lot of [TS]

00:28:44   people to kill here [TS]

00:28:46   yeah yeah I i did read the twilight [TS]

00:28:47   books and and she doesn't really do a [TS]

00:28:49   whole lot of the the introspective but [TS]

00:28:51   me [TS]

00:28:52   Oh what do they see anything that says [TS]

00:28:54   special vs that Bella Swan did instead [TS]

00:28:56   she's like again either she either she [TS]

00:28:58   has gained to catch she has people to [TS]

00:29:00   kill and she will figure it all out [TS]

00:29:02   later [TS]

00:29:03   well she is and she's clueless about it [TS]

00:29:05   for a long period of time which i [TS]

00:29:06   thought was turning it shows how young [TS]

00:29:08   she really is and it's you know in the [TS]

00:29:10   movie you know you can't you can't [TS]

00:29:12   really cast thirteen-year-olds in this [TS]

00:29:14   movie but that was actually one of my [TS]

00:29:15   big problems with the movie is that it [TS]

00:29:17   like like watching any TV show set in [TS]

00:29:20   high school you've got a whole bunch of [TS]

00:29:21   people in their mid-twenties me a 16 [TS]

00:29:23   year olds and and you miss at least at [TS]

00:29:26   least some of the characters like rue [TS]

00:29:27   were they cast young and so you could be [TS]

00:29:30   like oh she's really young but the main [TS]

00:29:31   characters are older and you know in the [TS]

00:29:34   book that was a nice bit of Katniss is [TS]

00:29:36   she's so capable in so many ways and yet [TS]

00:29:39   no she you know doesn't really even have [TS]

00:29:43   just really even get it with Gail like [TS]

00:29:45   later Shannon ok I'll he actually is [TS]

00:29:47   kind of interesting huh i have the right [TS]

00:29:49   it's like sheet it's not it doesn't even [TS]

00:29:51   occur to her because she's young and [TS]

00:29:53   she's really just not even focused on [TS]

00:29:55   that at the same time he's focused on [TS]

00:29:57   feeding your family and you know where [TS]

00:29:59   and whereas in in the movie it's a [TS]

00:30:03   different it's a very different story [TS]

00:30:04   because Jennifer Lawrence is a you know [TS]

00:30:06   she's he's a full-grown woman she's a [TS]

00:30:08   full-grown woman that she's she's on the [TS]

00:30:10   younger side I think she's like 22 or [TS]

00:30:12   something but yeah but but she's still a [TS]

00:30:15   full-grown woman and it and it has a [TS]

00:30:16   different meaning when when when you [TS]

00:30:20   read it that way and also I don't think [TS]

00:30:22   escaped your notice the forest younger [TS]

00:30:23   brother is pretty hot so so that there's [TS]

00:30:26   a little bit of there's a little bit of [TS]

00:30:27   that it is 37 brother i had that moment [TS]

00:30:29   where i was watching it and get thinking [TS]

00:30:30   he looks familiar he's he's kinda like [TS]

00:30:32   Thor Captain Kirk's dad but he's younger [TS]

00:30:36   and then at the end i see i see that it [TS]

00:30:39   has a is actually a hips worth my weight [TS]

00:30:41   haha i don't know what they're putting [TS]

00:30:43   the water in that family but Asgard they [TS]

00:30:45   grow big group projects water so [TS]

00:30:47   referring once again to the Hunger Games [TS]

00:30:49   tribute guide flipping through it right [TS]

00:30:50   now and a lot of the background tribute [TS]

00:30:53   to get killed almost immediately they [TS]

00:30:55   actually did cast people who look really [TS]

00:30:57   young and childlike I'm oh yeah well [TS]

00:30:59   that's the trip night is is that they [TS]

00:31:01   they tried to get the idea that young [TS]

00:31:02   people are going to die by having a TV [TS]

00:31:05   and important parts but the important [TS]

00:31:06   parts when two people who were 20 21 in [TS]

00:31:09   there Tony [TS]

00:31:09   yeah yeah you got stars yeah in in the [TS]

00:31:12   future in a post-apocalyptic future [TS]

00:31:14   people mature much faster that it's [TS]

00:31:17   literally information let the hard world [TS]

00:31:19   you have to get is that when you're the [TS]

00:31:20   mines and didn't wealth [TS]

00:31:22   oh yeah yeah i mean in the movie i have [TS]

00:31:26   to say they did a pretty good job of the [TS]

00:31:28   romance without making it feel / rot [TS]

00:31:31   I really love the look and feel of the [TS]

00:31:32   movie but the one thing I think they got [TS]

00:31:34   wrong [TS]

00:31:34   um I i just liked how they they turn the [TS]

00:31:37   capital aesthetic into i'm christian [TS]

00:31:40   lacroix needs Marie Antoinette because [TS]

00:31:43   it's a well it had to feel that someone [TS]

00:31:45   watched the app series from the nineteen [TS]

00:31:47   nineties and then they watch Sophia [TS]

00:31:49   Coppola Marie Antoinette said stop [TS]

00:31:51   drilling you struck oil [TS]

00:31:53   because they had this very baroque very [TS]

00:31:55   elaborate look and it just didn't sit [TS]

00:31:58   right for some reason it's that weirdly [TS]

00:32:00   on my eyes and I kept thinking this is [TS]

00:32:02   very plausible but that could just be my [TS]

00:32:04   own the book she wanted to make it seem [TS]

00:32:06   that was one of the sci-fi kind of [TS]

00:32:08   futuristic elements is this is an [TS]

00:32:09   outlandish ridiculous completely like to [TS]

00:32:14   our eyes and yeah into the eyes of the [TS]

00:32:16   people in the districts because that's [TS]

00:32:18   who were who were seeing this world [TS]

00:32:19   through their eyes to people in green [TS]

00:32:21   skin it's outrageous right there their [TS]

00:32:23   script skin is different colors and they [TS]

00:32:24   you know it it's and the fashion is [TS]

00:32:27   outrageous and they told it down i think [TS]

00:32:29   in pain because it would have seemed [TS]

00:32:30   kind of insane to movie audiences [TS]

00:32:33   because then you take your taking it [TS]

00:32:34   literally you're actually seeing it [TS]

00:32:35   whereas a as a sci-fi you know [TS]

00:32:37   bookreader i read that really wow that's [TS]

00:32:39   pretty wacky but I I kind of go with it [TS]

00:32:41   so yeah sure okay blue skin or giant [TS]

00:32:44   hair and what I don't see these people [TS]

00:32:45   in groups and you're reading in a book [TS]

00:32:47   but when you see it and it's like [TS]

00:32:49   stanley tucci and I think that goes to [TS]

00:32:51   the architecture and things like that is [TS]

00:32:52   that they'd rather than make it kind of [TS]

00:32:54   outlandish they make it this sort of you [TS]

00:32:56   know it's it's a a wealthy future it's [TS]

00:32:59   actually the only part of this thing [TS]

00:33:01   that set in the future that actually [TS]

00:33:02   feels like it's in the future which i [TS]

00:33:03   think is part of the point is like [TS]

00:33:04   everybody else is basically been thrown [TS]

00:33:06   into the past and the future has been [TS]

00:33:08   hoarded by the cat the winners honestly [TS]

00:33:10   I feel like they could have just [TS]

00:33:11   everybody the real housewives of new [TS]

00:33:13   jersey and got the same effect [TS]

00:33:15   yeah let's go and it would have been up [TS]

00:33:16   because i was watching that when i flew [TS]

00:33:18   home last last Monday be flown virgin [TS]

00:33:22   and I had it on one of the headrests and [TS]

00:33:24   I didn't have the headphone so she's [TS]

00:33:25   kind of when I was intended to the [TS]

00:33:27   toddler's catching bits and pieces of it [TS]

00:33:29   out of the corner of my eye on mute so [TS]

00:33:32   it was like this really weird kabuki [TS]

00:33:34   pantomime they just and that seemed [TS]

00:33:36   weird and disconnected from reality and [TS]

00:33:39   bizarrely futuristic because everyone's [TS]

00:33:41   got this this incredibly manufactured [TS]

00:33:43   machine-made look to them so really all [TS]

00:33:45   you had to do was just look at the real [TS]

00:33:46   housewives of new jersey the that the [TS]

00:33:48   flashback to the Baroque things what [TS]

00:33:50   bugs me from an athletic perspective and [TS]

00:33:52   I can't quite put my finger on why is [TS]

00:33:54   obviously it's a great metaphor with the [TS]

00:33:56   Marie Antoinette the hoarding of riches [TS]

00:33:58   let them eat cake and all that but for [TS]

00:33:59   some reason I'm for some reason if [TS]

00:34:02   you've got a movie that calls back so [TS]

00:34:04   clearly to other periods of great [TS]

00:34:06   economic and [TS]

00:34:07   justice in the u.s. you know since [TS]

00:34:08   district was obviously meant to evoke [TS]

00:34:10   the Dorothea Lange photographs of [TS]

00:34:12   decimal my coworkers and since the games [TS]

00:34:15   themselves are supposed to evoke that [TS]

00:34:17   the the the sooner rustic narrative of [TS]

00:34:21   cowboy indian movies you know [TS]

00:34:23   then why do you not go with the roaring [TS]

00:34:26   twenties or Gilded Age theme for the [TS]

00:34:28   capital why do you have to go to Marie [TS]

00:34:29   Antoinette instead see I look at it more [TS]

00:34:32   as these are people who for the last [TS]

00:34:34   what 75 80 years since the capital has [TS]

00:34:38   conquered the rest of the districts and [TS]

00:34:40   sort of kept everything peace [TS]

00:34:42   these are people who probably haven't [TS]

00:34:44   had to work a day in their lives and it [TS]

00:34:47   basically spend every single moment [TS]

00:34:49   shopping and interior designing and you [TS]

00:34:53   know dressing up Julie I saw the bravo [TS]

00:34:55   network is keeping us all down where [TS]

00:34:56   we're going basically well it's the [TS]

00:34:58   hunger games and broadcast on bravo and [TS]

00:35:02   I bet you in there will be the one who [TS]

00:35:03   does that the interviews he sees her [TS]

00:35:05   Flickerman oh my god yes [TS]

00:35:07   you think it's all gonna go together [TS]

00:35:09   yeah yeah I feel like if if you have [TS]

00:35:11   eight years because people who can't [TS]

00:35:13   create artwork or you know they can't [TS]

00:35:16   exercise their passions it just all goes [TS]

00:35:19   into just fashion which goes I mean you [TS]

00:35:22   see what's going on really personal yeah [TS]

00:35:24   but it reads quickly to is being you [TS]

00:35:27   know a decadent society and and that in [TS]

00:35:30   a film that has to compress so much to [TS]

00:35:32   get book content into into its into its [TS]

00:35:35   running time even though it does you [TS]

00:35:36   know run for more than two hours it's [TS]

00:35:37   still got to compress a lot and that's [TS]

00:35:39   one of the ways that they that they [TS]

00:35:41   would compress it so this so Gary Ross [TS]

00:35:44   the director big for him to make a movie [TS]

00:35:47   without to be wire in it usually know [TS]

00:35:49   that it that's his is touching your dick [TS]

00:35:51   know and is that is that has music yes [TS]

00:35:54   well pleasantville and Seabiscuit or [TS]

00:35:57   both his most successful in Paradise and [TS]

00:35:59   Mia's and Toto people yeah i know it is [TS]

00:36:02   a strange choice and it's making me do [TS]

00:36:05   things [TS]

00:36:07   what did what do you think I mean we we [TS]

00:36:08   watch this movie after having read the [TS]

00:36:10   book and I'm just curious how you think [TS]

00:36:13   that they in general it worked as a [TS]

00:36:16   movie because it what's been fascinating [TS]

00:36:18   to see [TS]

00:36:19   is that the movie did so well and that [TS]

00:36:22   people went obviously who saw the movie [TS]

00:36:23   who hadn't read the book and it has [TS]

00:36:26   driven people to read the book because I [TS]

00:36:27   see people reading the Hunger Games [TS]

00:36:28   everywhere now which is warms my heart [TS]

00:36:32   that people are reading books it's great [TS]

00:36:34   and then a movie you know not only the [TS]

00:36:36   book create this audience for a movie [TS]

00:36:39   series which is awesome but also that [TS]

00:36:41   the success of the movie has led people [TS]

00:36:43   to read the book so the question is you [TS]

00:36:45   know what was your take on the movie is [TS]

00:36:47   a movie i really liked the film as a [TS]

00:36:50   whole I i went into it really not [TS]

00:36:53   expecting to like it very much because [TS]

00:36:55   while I like Jennifer Lawrence and why [TS]

00:36:57   like a lot of people who are in the film [TS]

00:36:59   I'm like well it's pretty it's [TS]

00:37:01   complicated as far as things go and you [TS]

00:37:03   you have to walk the line between you [TS]

00:37:06   know killing kids on screen how do you [TS]

00:37:08   gonna do that a lot of exactly how you [TS]

00:37:11   do that [TS]

00:37:11   yeah exactly Gary Ross's answer was a [TS]

00:37:14   really really good editor and a lot of [TS]

00:37:16   shaky cam which while the shaky shaky [TS]

00:37:19   cam elements were used for effect they [TS]

00:37:22   were used to show OES district 12 is [TS]

00:37:25   very somber and meager and we're going [TS]

00:37:27   to express that by moving the camera [TS]

00:37:29   quickly and showing lots of down faces [TS]

00:37:31   and then to avoid brutal murder of [TS]

00:37:35   children on screen they use the shaky [TS]

00:37:38   cam 2 and cuts to basically make it all [TS]

00:37:40   happened very fast and so that resulted [TS]

00:37:43   in a little bit of nausea but that aside [TS]

00:37:45   what did not allow them to keep their [TS]

00:37:47   pg-13 [TS]

00:37:48   yeah okay just about what BS that is [TS]

00:37:51   because bear in mind this movie dropped [TS]

00:37:52   at the same time that bully did and the [TS]

00:37:55   mpaa gay bullying that rated R rating [TS]

00:37:57   because of an F bomb dropped but this [TS]

00:37:58   movie which which is all about the Mary [TS]

00:38:00   murder of children for entertainment [TS]

00:38:02   it's a pg-13 [TS]

00:38:03   yeah yep yeah no no that's that is like [TS]

00:38:06   Hunger Games little crazy the role right [TS]

00:38:08   there so the thing about about it is is [TS]

00:38:11   that they want this movie to be wide a [TS]

00:38:12   you-know-what with a wide audience in it [TS]

00:38:15   and it does appeal to younger audience [TS]

00:38:17   as well so they they did what they had [TS]

00:38:20   to do to make it a movie that was still [TS]

00:38:23   about people killing other people kids [TS]

00:38:26   killing other kids while not making it [TS]

00:38:29   so bloody that it would get in our and [TS]

00:38:31   it wasn't i actually thought that we [TS]

00:38:33   be a real challenge I while I was [TS]

00:38:35   reading the book and and you know a lot [TS]

00:38:38   of a little shaky cam goes a long way [TS]

00:38:41   and into making surprisingly lose track [TS]

00:38:44   of the detail but still no because in [TS]

00:38:46   the old days they would be sort of like [TS]

00:38:47   you'd show the reaction of the person [TS]

00:38:49   that yahoo and then you know [TS]

00:38:51   suffice to say he died but we don't know [TS]

00:38:53   how because blood spurt yeah so you get [TS]

00:38:55   enough of it but at the same time you [TS]

00:38:57   could argue that the whole point of this [TS]

00:38:59   is that it should be brutal and that you [TS]

00:39:01   know if you want her down the violence [TS]

00:39:02   you really kind of missing the point of [TS]

00:39:04   view of what this is about I think they [TS]

00:39:06   will they walked that nice line whereas [TS]

00:39:09   i don't think any of the deaths felt [TS]

00:39:11   hollow to me when we're actually seeing [TS]

00:39:13   it on screen which is nice even the [TS]

00:39:14   moment that Lisa brought up earlier when [TS]

00:39:17   Katniss is basically writing on the [TS]

00:39:18   train and watching I what I'm guessing [TS]

00:39:21   our rebroadcasts of old Hunger Games in [TS]

00:39:24   order to strike up the tributes for [TS]

00:39:26   blasting other games network [TS]

00:39:28   yes exactly look at what's fun a week to [TS]

00:39:30   you but I mean 8 they show it pretty [TS]

00:39:34   well I enter without necessarily showing [TS]

00:39:36   you the the gruesome details they [TS]

00:39:39   managed to evoke the oh this kid gets [TS]

00:39:41   killed with a spear this kid gets blown [TS]

00:39:45   up [TS]

00:39:45   it's kind of funny actually the [TS]

00:39:46   sequences so many ways to die [TS]

00:39:49   you know a good trailer that there's a [TS]

00:39:52   good promo for catching fire [TS]

00:39:55   aya I really you know I liked it I liked [TS]

00:39:58   the movie i thought they did I thought [TS]

00:39:59   they did a pretty good job with a movie [TS]

00:40:01   that or with a source material that was [TS]

00:40:03   hard to figure out how they were going [TS]

00:40:07   to fit it all in and I think as we said [TS]

00:40:10   earlier having perspective to earn [TS]

00:40:12   Katniss's helps it i think you know this [TS]

00:40:15   is not i think if not a first novel but [TS]

00:40:18   an early novel and it's got some some [TS]

00:40:21   issues that these you know screenwriters [TS]

00:40:24   got to fix [TS]

00:40:26   I mean I did there are things in it that [TS]

00:40:27   are that are the story by slowing it [TS]

00:40:29   down getting it into a little more than [TS]

00:40:32   two hours instead of the the length of [TS]

00:40:35   the book which would guess film would [TS]

00:40:37   have been you know whatever eight hours [TS]

00:40:38   i made some good choices clarified a lot [TS]

00:40:41   of things they can show some things that [TS]

00:40:43   don't they don't need to go into detail [TS]

00:40:45   because you see if you're like oh yeah I [TS]

00:40:46   get that [TS]

00:40:46   they can move on with the rest of the [TS]

00:40:48   premise and you know the casting just [TS]

00:40:51   Jennifer Lawrence herself and goes a [TS]

00:40:54   long way and woody harrelson children [TS]

00:40:57   worldwide Harrelson into I thought that [TS]

00:40:59   the the casting really help this movie [TS]

00:41:02   if they had not found the right Katniss [TS]

00:41:05   this would have been a disaster [TS]

00:41:06   Elizabeth Banks was fantastic oh my yeah [TS]

00:41:09   Elizabeth length is good in almost [TS]

00:41:11   everything she is it is amazing isn't it [TS]

00:41:16   josh hutcherson does nothing for me and [TS]

00:41:19   he seems like kind of a human blanket [TS]

00:41:20   but that's ok it's funny that I didn't [TS]

00:41:23   like it [TS]

00:41:24   we have to take our hats off to stanley [TS]

00:41:27   tucci because man and he was amazing [TS]

00:41:30   these I well the opening of introducing [TS]

00:41:33   yes I'm Caesar Flickerman and this is my [TS]

00:41:35   television show you know exactly who he [TS]

00:41:38   is within the first 10 seconds of him [TS]

00:41:40   sitting on stage and you just see the [TS]

00:41:42   flashes of marque behind him with him [TS]

00:41:45   smiling in like 20 different clip shows [TS]

00:41:48   that that whole sort of clip show [TS]

00:41:50   experience when he's interviewing the [TS]

00:41:52   candidates it feels like you're watching [TS]

00:41:54   all of the best episodes of David [TS]

00:41:57   Letterman kind of strung up together and [TS]

00:41:58   you get a sense very clearly is like oh [TS]

00:42:00   he is the talk show personality in the [TS]

00:42:04   capital like this is the man and i would [TS]

00:42:06   love to know who he watched when he was [TS]

00:42:08   prepping for this [TS]

00:42:09   oh yeah and because it seems like he's [TS]

00:42:12   obviously picking up on a bunch of [TS]

00:42:13   different people who are out there right [TS]

00:42:15   now there's a little Johnny Carson is a [TS]

00:42:17   little Jack any yeah I thought it was a [TS]

00:42:20   good adaptation because like you said [TS]

00:42:21   that Paris back a lot of the problematic [TS]

00:42:23   stuff it [TS]

00:42:25   it told a good fast story you didn't [TS]

00:42:27   need to know a whole lot of backstory [TS]

00:42:29   and they didn't have too many in jokes [TS]

00:42:32   or anything that people who didn't read [TS]

00:42:33   the book first would miss um that's [TS]

00:42:36   actually my complaint about collecting [TS]

00:42:37   movies a lot of times they do a lot of [TS]

00:42:38   fanservice expensive people who just [TS]

00:42:40   want to watch a film and this didn't he [TS]

00:42:43   was it was a good i think that will [TS]

00:42:45   probably people who watch all three or [TS]

00:42:47   four hunger games movies and never read [TS]

00:42:48   the books and that's ok we'll be fine [TS]

00:42:50   with it you know and they won't need to [TS]

00:42:51   read the books to have gotten the full [TS]

00:42:53   impact of the story it tells a much more [TS]

00:42:55   complete story than any of the harry [TS]

00:42:57   potter book movies for instance [TS]

00:42:59   no which by and large just feel like [TS]

00:43:02   this scene and then this scene and then [TS]

00:43:04   this scene [TS]

00:43:05   whereas the hunger games movie was [TS]

00:43:07   written well enough that you're like oh [TS]

00:43:08   no I'm actually following a plot here [TS]

00:43:11   and I don't feel like if i missed a [TS]

00:43:13   scene somewhere right going number one [TS]

00:43:17   thing I did want to bring up from the [TS]

00:43:19   film is there's there's a scene between [TS]

00:43:22   President Snow and Seneca Crane the [TS]

00:43:25   gamemaster which we do not get in the [TS]

00:43:28   books where he's basically you know he's [TS]

00:43:30   basically lecturing Seneca Crane about [TS]

00:43:32   being too nice to Katniss but he has [TS]

00:43:35   this wonderful line where it's like yeah [TS]

00:43:38   do you know why we do this why don't we [TS]

00:43:40   just you know roundup 24 people shoot [TS]

00:43:42   them and the whole concept of you [TS]

00:43:44   we're doing this to give them hope and [TS]

00:43:47   the the idea of giving these nations who [TS]

00:43:50   have basically betrayed us the idea that [TS]

00:43:53   were being lenient in any sort of way [TS]

00:43:55   dampens the idea of this sacrifice I [TS]

00:43:58   mean that's a really powerful image that [TS]

00:44:00   it takes [TS]

00:44:01   Katniss in mint in like her inner [TS]

00:44:05   dialogue in the book something like [TS]

00:44:07   seven or eight chapters for us to really [TS]

00:44:09   grasp but on-screen they managed to do [TS]

00:44:11   it in five minutes with this [TS]

00:44:13   conversation and I really really love [TS]

00:44:15   that so I think we're going to move on [TS]

00:44:18   to the other two books about you have [TS]

00:44:22   been made in movies and so we will [TS]

00:44:24   consider this your spoiler warning [TS]

00:44:28   [Music] [TS]

00:44:30   so if you haven't read second or third [TS]

00:44:35   books please turn away or be spoiled [TS]

00:44:39   forever so let's talk about catching [TS]

00:44:43   fire which is the second book in the [TS]

00:44:44   trilogy or as i like to call it a that [TS]

00:44:49   book was so fun i'm gonna write it again [TS]

00:44:53   yeah yeah yeah it's actually got there [TS]

00:44:59   are a lot of things in catching fire [TS]

00:45:01   that are better than the hunger games [TS]

00:45:02   but my disappointment is she decided to [TS]

00:45:06   tell the same story again so it's like [TS]

00:45:07   we're getting the band back together [TS]

00:45:08   we're gonna we're gonna put we're gonna [TS]

00:45:10   put it you know you're back in and it's [TS]

00:45:13   gonna be an all-star matchup of for the [TS]

00:45:15   75th anniversary of all the tributes who [TS]

00:45:18   survived and and all your own they also [TS]

00:45:20   never works on reality TV and those to [TS]

00:45:22   be criticism now called a TV as well but [TS]

00:45:24   that's what I don't know what it is [TS]

00:45:26   that's what we're about how all-star [TS]

00:45:28   survivor was a real disappointment and [TS]

00:45:30   that's what destroyed so I i see that [TS]

00:45:32   more or less as not a cop out by the [TS]

00:45:35   writer but actually as a permanent thing [TS]

00:45:37   where she's she's basically showing the [TS]

00:45:39   capital being like oh well crap our [TS]

00:45:43   citizens are becoming restless and we [TS]

00:45:44   don't know how to control them and the [TS]

00:45:46   only way we've been able to control them [TS]

00:45:48   before is the hunger games so let's [TS]

00:45:51   throw the people who are making trouble [TS]

00:45:53   right back into the hunger games i won't [TS]

00:45:55   be manufactured the history where he [TS]

00:45:56   brings up as envelope notes with a look [TS]

00:45:59   at this year's challenge return oh yes [TS]

00:46:01   sure it's been the sealed for this year [TS]

00:46:04   years and only now revealed like so huh [TS]

00:46:09   it's so strong structurally uh what I [TS]

00:46:13   would like to see this goes back to my [TS]

00:46:14   praise of the movie for showing us a [TS]

00:46:16   different perspective I felt like she [TS]

00:46:20   had again were criticizing somebody who [TS]

00:46:22   made a gigantic boatload of money with [TS]

00:46:24   these and and you know she may be made a [TS]

00:46:27   great commercial decision to just replay [TS]

00:46:29   the first book again and she did get a [TS]

00:46:31   chance to improve like this some of the [TS]

00:46:33   action that happens in the arena is [TS]

00:46:35   better i think she you know took a [TS]

00:46:37   second crack at it and did some things [TS]

00:46:39   right but I kept feeling like I would [TS]

00:46:42   almost rather have seen [TS]

00:46:43   the Katniss as a mentor and seen the [TS]

00:46:47   political imagination is happening and [TS]

00:46:49   sea the games as they're viewed from the [TS]

00:46:52   outside by the mentors as this stuff is [TS]

00:46:56   happening and maybe as they're plotting [TS]

00:46:58   to get people out of the capital and [TS]

00:47:01   good even rescue people from in the game [TS]

00:47:04   I i would have almost rather Katniss not [TS]

00:47:07   had been in there and seen it from the [TS]

00:47:09   perspective of the person on the outside [TS]

00:47:11   we meet a new contestant and it's very [TS]

00:47:13   upsetting but they're gonna die and [TS]

00:47:15   Katniss has to watch it at my end they [TS]

00:47:18   missed you know she missed an [TS]

00:47:20   opportunity to sort of like explore a [TS]

00:47:21   different part of the world and that [TS]

00:47:23   frustrated me with this as well done [TS]

00:47:25   some of it is that it's just a retread & [TS]

00:47:28   it's like you know she had parts of her [TS]

00:47:30   world that she could have explored more [TS]

00:47:32   and chose to do the replay [TS]

00:47:34   so here's my theory actually is if you [TS]

00:47:37   take a look at the arc of Katniss's [TS]

00:47:39   development over the course of the [TS]

00:47:41   trilogy um by the but the the third book [TS]

00:47:45   is basically about how people who are on [TS]

00:47:47   the cusp of adulthood have to learn how [TS]

00:47:48   to negotiate the adult world where they [TS]

00:47:51   don't understand a lot of the rules and [TS]

00:47:52   are not sure who was friend who's though [TS]

00:47:54   it's your basic ok i'm in college doing [TS]

00:47:57   out my roommate type scenario except you [TS]

00:47:59   know revolutions and the way I see it is [TS]

00:48:02   the second book is kind of the bridge [TS]

00:48:04   between the profoundly adolescent junior [TS]

00:48:07   high / high school mentality of the [TS]

00:48:09   hunger games where you work where the [TS]

00:48:12   readers meant to relate to Katniss as [TS]

00:48:14   you would relate to a 9th grader or [TS]

00:48:16   anybody else who's in the situation that [TS]

00:48:17   feels hostile and they don't make the [TS]

00:48:20   rules and their job is just to survive [TS]

00:48:22   it [TS]

00:48:22   this book is meant to say okay we've had [TS]

00:48:26   a point adolescence where we realize [TS]

00:48:28   that the rules are rigged and where we [TS]

00:48:31   realize that adults don't have all the [TS]

00:48:33   answers and sometimes they're going to [TS]

00:48:36   look to us for the answers and we have [TS]

00:48:37   to step up because that's going to be [TS]

00:48:38   our job more as we get older and so by [TS]

00:48:40   the third book she'sshe's neck-deep in [TS]

00:48:42   in the messy adult world and there's no [TS]

00:48:44   more adolescent hunger games at all so [TS]

00:48:46   so I think this book provides a valuable [TS]

00:48:48   transition role I i think it has the [TS]

00:48:51   worst ending out of the three books like [TS]

00:48:52   like the last few chapters are just like [TS]

00:48:54   what what what oh it's a cliffhanger [TS]

00:48:57   RNA maybe it's just it's an empire [TS]

00:48:58   strikes back ask trying to capture that [TS]

00:49:01   and so it's just so miserably [TS]

00:49:04   yeah it's just I i think it's got a [TS]

00:49:06   really weak ending but i think that in [TS]

00:49:08   terms of how Katniss involves a care or [TS]

00:49:10   s involvement how she grows into who [TS]

00:49:12   she's going to be on i think that this [TS]

00:49:15   book provides a pretty valuable bridge [TS]

00:49:17   between simplistic or childlike [TS]

00:49:20   understanding of who she was in the [TS]

00:49:21   first book versus the more nuanced [TS]

00:49:25   reconstruction of her personality that [TS]

00:49:27   she has 22 it to undergo by the end of [TS]

00:49:29   the third book [TS]

00:49:32   so you know it's it's I don't miss I [TS]

00:49:35   don't necessarily see it as a retrail I [TS]

00:49:37   see this kind of okay the first book is [TS]

00:49:39   is junior high or ninth grade maybe the [TS]

00:49:41   second book is your senior year of high [TS]

00:49:42   school [TS]

00:49:43   this launches you the third book which [TS]

00:49:44   is college and what is everything is [TS]

00:49:48   different cities and in sinaa who we've [TS]

00:49:51   seen all along and we haven't really [TS]

00:49:53   talked about who was cast in the movie I [TS]

00:49:56   didn't let your wife know you know what [TS]

00:49:58   I thought he was fine [TS]

00:50:00   however I thought his creations were [TS]

00:50:02   miscast in the movie oh yeah because you [TS]

00:50:04   get you get the picture of them being [TS]

00:50:06   these flamboyant amazed but am I crazy [TS]

00:50:09   and that i remembered her when her when [TS]

00:50:11   she spins around like showing off her [TS]

00:50:13   dress the original dress burns off yes [TS]

00:50:16   they took it out [TS]

00:50:18   yeah yeah yeah but it was very [TS]

00:50:20   interesting character in and you know [TS]

00:50:23   Lenny Kravitz to play with the movie was [TS]

00:50:25   not he was charismatic although not [TS]

00:50:29   really what I expected but you're right [TS]

00:50:32   read that the the outfits I was really [TS]

00:50:35   disappointed that they didn't do her [TS]

00:50:36   trick where the outfit burns off to [TS]

00:50:38   reveal the other outfit that way yeah my [TS]

00:50:40   favorite things and I was I can picture [TS]

00:50:41   that in my mind's eye they're like yeah [TS]

00:50:43   it's too hard we're not going to do that [TS]

00:50:44   and they even around unless you're [TS]

00:50:46   picturing even the outfits of the [TS]

00:50:47   charity with the chariot were like yeah [TS]

00:50:49   yeah yeah no it was not i guess it's [TS]

00:50:53   easier to say they were very impressive [TS]

00:50:56   and people were people who love them and [TS]

00:50:57   they were like nothing ever seen before [TS]

00:50:59   and then you're the costumes of your [TS]

00:51:00   life what the hell am I gonna do cuz i [TS]

00:51:02   can't do that so I don't have this [TS]

00:51:04   technology available to me now which is [TS]

00:51:07   what it is so that I think micro I think [TS]

00:51:10   Michael early would have been a really [TS]

00:51:11   nice setup [TS]

00:51:12   I think he's got I think I I think he I [TS]

00:51:14   think he would have provided a really [TS]

00:51:16   compelling look and he's got a certain [TS]

00:51:17   stillness of character that works well [TS]

00:51:19   for Senna and I don't have tended to be [TS]

00:51:21   so intriguing but because how do you [TS]

00:51:23   work in basically a bravo TV style [TS]

00:51:27   industry like remaking tributes and live [TS]

00:51:30   in the capital and still be somebody who [TS]

00:51:32   decides that your core this is wrong [TS]

00:51:34   this is wrong i'm going to help foment [TS]

00:51:36   rebellion with what I do you know we [TS]

00:51:38   never that that's one of my criticisms [TS]

00:51:41   of the book is we never get an idea of [TS]

00:51:43   what draws people to the rebellion [TS]

00:51:45   or how they managed to join it um I mean [TS]

00:51:48   the district's it's kind of obvious but [TS]

00:51:50   in the capital that there's a lot of [TS]

00:51:51   people in the capital horn rebellion how [TS]

00:51:53   did they get there what made them decide [TS]

00:51:55   it was that [TS]

00:51:56   do you believe the catalyst was confused [TS]

00:51:57   and clueless at the end as that was one [TS]

00:52:02   of those moments of like really does she [TS]

00:52:03   not understand what's happening here [TS]

00:52:04   that they're like oh I just fired my [TS]

00:52:07   arrows and I don't know what I'm you [TS]

00:52:09   know at the end I thought I thought she [TS]

00:52:10   came across as being a little a little [TS]

00:52:12   clueless that was surprising for me to [TS]

00:52:14   think it's um it's all very hectic right [TS]

00:52:17   at the second book is all about being [TS]

00:52:19   you know everything's going crazy [TS]

00:52:23   she's caught off-guard 23 button i think [TS]

00:52:25   one of the reasons the second book it [TS]

00:52:27   shook me the first time I read it is [TS]

00:52:29   because she's persistently off her game [TS]

00:52:30   both she and gallant young gets whipped [TS]

00:52:32   in a public square and this is something [TS]

00:52:34   you've got the sense of the first book [TS]

00:52:36   that they had basically figured out [TS]

00:52:37   district 12 and they had it gained they [TS]

00:52:39   had figured out ways to get out of it [TS]

00:52:40   for hunting they had participation [TS]

00:52:42   thriving black market [TS]

00:52:44   nobody mess with them they're just two [TS]

00:52:45   kids who like to hunt and in the second [TS]

00:52:47   book Katniss is besieged on all sides [TS]

00:52:50   her uncle cousin is greatness it and she [TS]

00:52:56   doesn't have to trust that these games [TS]

00:52:57   are even more confusing because she's [TS]

00:52:59   going up against older more seasoned [TS]

00:53:00   opponents well they're no longer novel [TS]

00:53:02   and they can't get away with all the [TS]

00:53:04   tricks that got them where they were the [TS]

00:53:05   first time and then that that is [TS]

00:53:08   interesting right that they can't you [TS]

00:53:10   know all the old tricks aren't going to [TS]

00:53:12   work anymore where they worked once but [TS]

00:53:13   this is now we know who you are we we [TS]

00:53:15   know going in what your skills are ya [TS]

00:53:18   yeah and then Peter pulls oh and by the [TS]

00:53:20   way she's pregnant lie and you know [TS]

00:53:24   yeah just what a hand I was like they [TS]

00:53:27   were that was the worst like reality TV [TS]

00:53:29   kind of stuff and how ya doing those [TS]

00:53:32   places even try that but but you know [TS]

00:53:36   there are there are interesting things [TS]

00:53:38   in here [TS]

00:53:38   the strategy the stuff that happens [TS]

00:53:42   there are there are killer monkeys [TS]

00:53:44   oh yes i love that there are killer my [TS]

00:53:47   love the glue and now we can talk about [TS]

00:53:49   now I can talk about the tiny narrative [TS]

00:53:51   conceited book to wear when they're [TS]

00:53:52   watching him pitches games and he's [TS]

00:53:54   hanging out with the other girl from [TS]

00:53:56   district 12 amazingly Donner [TS]

00:53:59   and the two of them help each other out [TS]

00:54:00   and then after all it is a curse than [TS]

00:54:02   the arrow this is not going to go well [TS]

00:54:05   if it right on just the two of us and [TS]

00:54:06   something like well see ya [TS]

00:54:08   and she gets killed moments later by our [TS]

00:54:11   legal hummingbird and I thought that [TS]

00:54:13   that's kind of convenient for him it's [TS]

00:54:14   because he doesn't have to be the one to [TS]

00:54:16   kill her he doesn't have to make the [TS]

00:54:17   hard choice again you know that that is [TS]

00:54:20   the that is the funny part about being [TS]

00:54:22   in the in the games is that you know you [TS]

00:54:24   you love your allies but you you kind of [TS]

00:54:27   want them to die so you don't have to [TS]

00:54:28   kill them all right so my marking Chang [TS]

00:54:31   [Music] [TS]

00:54:33   mockingjay I felt laying about halfway [TS]

00:54:36   through takes a turn spent so [TS]

00:54:41   spectacularly blutbad that is completely [TS]

00:54:43   threatens to not only swamp the my view [TS]

00:54:48   of the novel is the whole but the series [TS]

00:54:50   and it doesn't because you know we can't [TS]

00:54:51   really retro actively go back and make [TS]

00:54:53   the other two books stink they are what [TS]

00:54:55   they are and i did enjoy reading them [TS]

00:54:57   but I thought Mockingjay was a complete [TS]

00:55:00   disaster because she essentially can't [TS]

00:55:02   put put them back in the hunger games [TS]

00:55:03   again so she puts them in an [TS]

00:55:05   amalgamation of sort of the hunger games [TS]

00:55:07   on the streets of the capital in this [TS]

00:55:09   kind of bizarre guerrilla warfare on the [TS]

00:55:13   streets of the capital kind of thing and [TS]

00:55:15   it you know and she resolves the love [TS]

00:55:18   triangle / st. yeah because i was [TS]

00:55:22   wondering about that the whole [TS]

00:55:25   deprogramming of pita which is crazy [TS]

00:55:28   real or not real I'm now here's what i [TS]

00:55:32   like about that though is is Katniss [TS]

00:55:34   ends the book as a profoundly damaged [TS]

00:55:36   person is going to have PT we add the [TS]

00:55:38   rest of her life and I think it was [TS]

00:55:41   important for Suzanne Collins to to [TS]

00:55:43   point out that you know when you've gone [TS]

00:55:45   through the kind of experiences that [TS]

00:55:47   someone like Katniss has gone through [TS]

00:55:49   there is no bouncing back [TS]

00:55:51   I mean she was already a pretty damaged [TS]

00:55:53   person going into the first Hunger Games [TS]

00:55:54   and by the time that she survived two [TS]

00:55:57   games and a civil war on and seen and [TS]

00:56:01   heard several people gruesome deaths and [TS]

00:56:02   then lost her sister to President coins [TS]

00:56:06   machinations you don't get to be happy [TS]

00:56:09   well I mean yeah i could appreciate that [TS]

00:56:12   we should be one of I think I can [TS]

00:56:14   appreciate that that's where she wanted [TS]

00:56:15   to leave it but boy that that that last [TS]

00:56:20   section feel so i also hate the hand [TS]

00:56:23   waving well I do hate the hand waving [TS]

00:56:24   they did where they're like oh I'm gonna [TS]

00:56:26   troll happened [TS]

00:56:27   well yeah i think the treatment of the [TS]

00:56:29   sister first off was like oh and it [TS]

00:56:31   turns out her sister was there and she's [TS]

00:56:32   yes [TS]

00:56:33   yeah it's just you know it's so poorly [TS]

00:56:36   handled and I think I you have so much [TS]

00:56:39   invested in the story I i like it a [TS]

00:56:42   little bit too how in alien 3 [TS]

00:56:47   mhm uh so we have alien great movie [TS]

00:56:50   aliens and then David Fincher's not [TS]

00:56:52   really his best work alien 3 the opening [TS]

00:56:55   of alien 3 is hey Ripley you're alive oh [TS]

00:56:57   nude she died [TS]

00:56:58   she's going it's like wait a second [TS]

00:57:00   that's just like you've just given a big [TS]

00:57:02   fu to the second movie and I like the [TS]

00:57:06   second movie that's why i'm watching the [TS]

00:57:07   third movie and I feel like that with [TS]

00:57:09   killing the sister it's like you know [TS]

00:57:11   the sister her her sacrificing her life [TS]

00:57:13   and her or whether it's her literally [TS]

00:57:17   her life for its that she's going to be [TS]

00:57:18   messed up for the rest of her life for [TS]

00:57:20   her sister is a nice part of the story [TS]

00:57:22   and any and here it's like well yeah but [TS]

00:57:24   i'm going to very quickly move pieces [TS]

00:57:25   around so that the sister dies so that [TS]

00:57:28   things are really messed up it's like [TS]

00:57:29   you know well she's not allowed to have [TS]

00:57:31   a happy ending she's not allowed to have [TS]

00:57:33   any kind of hope [TS]

00:57:34   yeah even if the happy ending is is is [TS]

00:57:37   that somebody else has a has a lives on [TS]

00:57:39   and Katniss doesn't or her you know her [TS]

00:57:43   life is kinda wrecked it felt like I [TS]

00:57:45   could have seen her sister be killed in [TS]

00:57:48   some sort of way that made sense but but [TS]

00:57:52   that's not that this isn't that it this [TS]

00:57:54   was it felt like a real mess to me that [TS]

00:57:57   she she needed to make these things [TS]

00:57:59   happen and so she made that happen and [TS]

00:58:01   they happen in this crucible of this [TS]

00:58:02   kind of like bizarre civil war on the [TS]

00:58:05   streets of the capital thing like oh [TS]

00:58:06   we're rolling through all the districts [TS]

00:58:08   that's not gonna be a problem of there's [TS]

00:58:09   a little problem district to you can [TS]

00:58:11   have to go there you know be on TV but [TS]

00:58:15   but you know the plot my cancer kind of [TS]

00:58:17   kind of visible and obvious because the [TS]

00:58:19   whole point of district 2 is where [TS]

00:58:20   Katniss realizes that the gal she [TS]

00:58:22   thought she knew was not really the girl [TS]

00:58:23   who came out more time and and this is [TS]

00:58:25   coming home and then when you but I [TS]

00:58:28   agree they that business in the capital [TS]

00:58:30   is just ridiculous especially to get to [TS]

00:58:32   the rotation but smell like roses and [TS]

00:58:34   are programmed to respond the Katniss's [TS]

00:58:35   need and this are so its orders we had [TS]

00:58:39   ended the end in the end after she wakes [TS]

00:58:40   up and there's the whole you know I [TS]

00:58:42   appreciate the idea that the the rebels [TS]

00:58:45   are all are not any better I think it's [TS]

00:58:47   a very very well this is critical and [TS]

00:58:50   and and awful thing to think it also [TS]

00:58:53   protect you know that's her point is is [TS]

00:58:55   the people who want to take over always [TS]

00:58:57   going to want to be there always going [TS]

00:58:58   to be the same people [TS]

00:59:00   yeah I think President Snow made a great [TS]

00:59:01   point about that was like president coin [TS]

00:59:03   did it right she loved the district's [TS]

00:59:04   care themselves apartment you just waltz [TS]

00:59:05   on in and if you decide [TS]

00:59:07   yeah and so I don't mind that Katniss [TS]

00:59:10   does her little trick and although it [TS]

00:59:11   still seems bizarre like you okay [TS]

00:59:14   she shoots the other one and now you [TS]

00:59:16   know it but it just eventually goes [TS]

00:59:19   bonkers and they have a trial off-screen [TS]

00:59:20   others an epilogue him [TS]

00:59:22   yep what did you guys think about the [TS]

00:59:24   whole what did you guys think about the [TS]

00:59:25   catalyst of the story being the decision [TS]

00:59:27   to throw a hunger games using capital [TS]

00:59:29   children it's a little frustrating when [TS]

00:59:34   you've come so far and then only to see [TS]

00:59:37   ya this district 13 is basically a whole [TS]

00:59:40   new cap right if they're the same that [TS]

00:59:43   they're the same bastards wearing new [TS]

00:59:45   faces but that that I mean that's the [TS]

00:59:47   message right and again we're back to [TS]

00:59:48   the front from the the anti kind of [TS]

00:59:50   totalitarian and-and-and-and-and [TS]

00:59:53   government's out-of-control kind of [TS]

00:59:56   thing I I totally see that but the way [TS]

00:59:59   that it [TS]

00:59:59   that it [TS]

01:00:00   done is the problem I think is that is [TS]

01:00:03   that it's it loses i I've I my concern [TS]

01:00:07   is that Susan Collins really only has [TS]

01:00:08   one story to tell here and shoveled it [TS]

01:00:10   twice already and so the third time [TS]

01:00:12   she's kind of run out and so she's kind [TS]

01:00:14   of pulling some strings to get things to [TS]

01:00:16   to get where that she wants them to go [TS]

01:00:18   and it just you know I was really [TS]

01:00:20   unhappy with the whole thing I thought I [TS]

01:00:23   thought it was not not because it didn't [TS]

01:00:24   have a wonderful happy ending because I [TS]

01:00:27   that so I'm okay with the dark endings [TS]

01:00:29   but that it just seemed kind of out of [TS]

01:00:30   the blue and badly executed and I yeah [TS]

01:00:34   just like she had she was obligated to [TS]

01:00:37   turn in the third book so this is what [TS]

01:00:38   we got [TS]

01:00:39   so ran it in any other thoughts that you [TS]

01:00:41   have about a mockingjay now that I don't [TS]

01:00:44   know I've yelled about it for 20 of you [TS]

01:00:48   know see I've only read mockingjay want [TS]

01:00:51   the once on the tail end of my you know [TS]

01:00:54   three-day Hunger Games extravaganza and [TS]

01:00:58   there's still people we read books will [TS]

01:01:00   tell him I crazy people but a I don't [TS]

01:01:05   know it it's blurry to me but I think [TS]

01:01:07   that's also the way the book was written [TS]

01:01:09   for it just it it and catching fire to a [TS]

01:01:12   certain extent are both very hectic [TS]

01:01:14   books and when you're traveling through [TS]

01:01:17   Katniss's eyes especially the thing that [TS]

01:01:19   I really like about book 3 is how [TS]

01:01:22   reluctant Katniss's to be a symbol of [TS]

01:01:24   anything it's like we were talking about [TS]

01:01:26   earlier in the in the podcast about [TS]

01:01:29   Katniss isn't focused on love stories or [TS]

01:01:32   you know overarching plots she's just [TS]

01:01:34   focused on the next thing at hand [TS]

01:01:36   she's focused on saving her sister she's [TS]

01:01:38   focused on getting through the night [TS]

01:01:40   she's focused on avoiding being killed [TS]

01:01:43   you know or finding food or you know [TS]

01:01:46   oh god I have to talk to people on live [TS]

01:01:49   television there's never there's never [TS]

01:01:52   any big picture to her and people [TS]

01:01:54   wanting her to be a symbol of this war [TS]

01:01:57   effort and this cause she I feel like [TS]

01:02:00   she seems to shy away from from the [TS]

01:02:03   start you know where she's just doing [TS]

01:02:05   these things and she doesn't really she [TS]

01:02:08   doesn't really have a sense for her [TS]

01:02:10   overarching actions like she's doing [TS]

01:02:12   stuff too [TS]

01:02:13   save herself and to save pita and to [TS]

01:02:15   save her sister say the people that she [TS]

01:02:17   cares about but she I don't think she [TS]

01:02:20   ever really goes into it intentionally [TS]

01:02:21   thinking oh this will be a good symbol [TS]

01:02:23   to the people and browse them up into [TS]

01:02:25   rebellion and so when district 13 is [TS]

01:02:29   like yep you're going to be the [TS]

01:02:30   Mockingjay you're going to be our great [TS]

01:02:32   wonderful symbol [TS]

01:02:33   she's very unenthused about it and even [TS]

01:02:37   when they you know she gives them all [TS]

01:02:39   these demands that they agree to she's [TS]

01:02:41   still very uncomfortable and she's [TS]

01:02:43   uncomfortable throughout the entire book [TS]

01:02:45   III like that I i think that's one of [TS]

01:02:48   the good things about her progression as [TS]

01:02:50   a character is colleagues about how does [TS]

01:02:52   somebody become a revolutionary icon [TS]

01:02:54   how does somebody become a symbol of [TS]

01:02:57   revolution somebody that people rally [TS]

01:02:59   behind and you can you can plan to be at [TS]

01:03:01   all you like it will never be it or you [TS]

01:03:04   can be in the right place wrong place i [TS]

01:03:06   guess that there at the right time or [TS]

01:03:07   wrong time and and you just become that [TS]

01:03:10   and and that's Katniss's story and she [TS]

01:03:12   doesn't she has to realize the power [TS]

01:03:15   that she's accumulating just by her [TS]

01:03:18   actions and she first finds out because [TS]

01:03:20   the people in power are quite upset and [TS]

01:03:23   threatened by her [TS]

01:03:24   how could that be she's just this poor [TS]

01:03:27   girl from the country who you know was [TS]

01:03:29   fortunate enough to win this thing and [TS]

01:03:31   over time you know she realizes that [TS]

01:03:34   she's got some some some power and in [TS]

01:03:37   that third book the seams in district 13 [TS]

01:03:39   you know they make that clear that you [TS]

01:03:41   know you are at you are a symbol and she [TS]

01:03:43   has to try to come to terms with that I [TS]

01:03:45   thought that was all really interesting [TS]

01:03:46   just just from the sense of of [TS]

01:03:48   revolutions having symbols and what if [TS]

01:03:50   you're that person and you may not have [TS]

01:03:52   done it for any of those reasons but you [TS]

01:03:55   know you know what being that symbol and [TS]

01:03:58   the choices well do you represent it or [TS]

01:04:00   do you run away from it and she has kind [TS]

01:04:02   of a she has a little bit of both in [TS]

01:04:04   this book was really nice and there's [TS]

01:04:06   also the contrast between she who really [TS]

01:04:09   has no desire to be a national symbol [TS]

01:04:12   and Gayle who really i mean gales the [TS]

01:04:15   person who really should be the [TS]

01:04:17   Mockingjay and should be the symbol of [TS]

01:04:19   revolutionary warfare and he ends up [TS]

01:04:21   more or less being so I towards the end [TS]

01:04:25   of the book [TS]

01:04:27   thanks to like bomb raids and certain [TS]

01:04:29   things but it's interesting to contrast [TS]

01:04:33   the two of them i mean even their arcs [TS]

01:04:35   from the start of the books where [TS]

01:04:37   they're hunting partners but from the [TS]

01:04:39   beginning we've had very different [TS]

01:04:40   philosophies and as the books progress [TS]

01:04:43   and very much so in Mockingjay sort of [TS]

01:04:45   see those come to a head for Gayle who [TS]

01:04:47   is always kind of been a revolutionary [TS]

01:04:50   really gets his chance to step into the [TS]

01:04:52   spotlight and Katniss takes the [TS]

01:04:54   revolutionary banner set somewhat [TS]

01:04:56   unwillingly and really comes out the [TS]

01:04:59   worst for it you know right yeah I on [TS]

01:05:04   mockingjay I have problems [TS]

01:05:06   mockingjay well and maybe if somebody [TS]

01:05:09   read these books when they were when [TS]

01:05:11   they were released and had a long wait [TS]

01:05:13   between them they would view it [TS]

01:05:15   differently than then somebody like me [TS]

01:05:18   and I guess like you who who tore [TS]

01:05:20   through the read them all in order yeah [TS]

01:05:22   basically but when you run when you read [TS]

01:05:24   them in order you can see the decline i [TS]

01:05:26   think in quality very starkly as you go [TS]

01:05:30   home with the second one is better in [TS]

01:05:33   some certain ways but disappointing that [TS]

01:05:36   it doesn't really try to be more and [TS]

01:05:38   then the third one feels like she's kind [TS]

01:05:41   of like got her part in the weird [TS]

01:05:43   district 13 which is kind of interesting [TS]

01:05:45   and sterile and those people are kind of [TS]

01:05:47   messed up in their own way because [TS]

01:05:49   they've been in isolation so long and [TS]

01:05:51   then they go to there's the military [TS]

01:05:53   stuff in the the march on the capital [TS]

01:05:54   and it just kind of koreans out of [TS]

01:05:57   control in my mind that she's just like [TS]

01:05:58   slapping things in there and open that [TS]

01:06:00   it all makes sense which it doesn't [TS]

01:06:02   yeah the difference between the hunger [TS]

01:06:05   games the first book and the latter two [TS]

01:06:07   is that the first book is a standalone [TS]

01:06:09   story and a very powerful standalone [TS]

01:06:11   story we get introduced to characters we [TS]

01:06:14   get the tension we get the conflict we [TS]

01:06:16   get the resolution more or less but both [TS]

01:06:19   catching fire and mockingjay are clearly [TS]

01:06:21   books in an installment they make no [TS]

01:06:25   pretenses of oh we're going to [TS]

01:06:27   reintroduce you to people or you know [TS]

01:06:29   that you know and the reason why Empire [TS]

01:06:32   is such a good film is that it stands on [TS]

01:06:34   its own [TS]

01:06:35   even though it is the second [TS]

01:06:37   in a trilogy whereas catching fire i [TS]

01:06:40   would never read catching fire unless it [TS]

01:06:42   was part of a reread of the entire [TS]

01:06:44   trilogy because it just doesn't make [TS]

01:06:45   sense and that's I think a large part of [TS]

01:06:47   the of the writing decline as it goes [TS]

01:06:51   I don't have a link here but there was a [TS]

01:06:52   great blog post where somebody said hey [TS]

01:06:56   so the Hunger Games has been a success [TS]

01:06:59   that's great uh there [TS]

01:07:02   what are they gonna do about the third [TS]

01:07:03   book me that was that was literally the [TS]

01:07:05   blog post was alright and i can see how [TS]

01:07:08   they're going to make the second movie [TS]

01:07:09   based on the second book and we can see [TS]

01:07:11   how that will work and then you get to [TS]

01:07:13   the third book it's like it was nice to [TS]

01:07:15   read it because I having read and I [TS]

01:07:17   thought it might be only one who thinks [TS]

01:07:18   this blogger was saying their books [TS]

01:07:20   complete mess [TS]

01:07:21   how do they deal with it and a mic my [TS]

01:07:25   question is going to be how much input [TS]

01:07:27   suzanne collins in an approval she has [TS]

01:07:30   she co-wrote the screenplay for this CNT [TS]

01:07:33   i think so [TS]

01:07:34   so that doesn't fill me with hope but [TS]

01:07:36   you know who knows maybe in simplifying [TS]

01:07:40   it into a movie like story it will make [TS]

01:07:43   you know it will be less messy because [TS]

01:07:45   just as they did with the first 1i think [TS]

01:07:47   they made improvements as they went so [TS]

01:07:49   maybe maybe so but it's interesting to [TS]

01:07:51   think about it big wow thats they got [TS]

01:07:53   some work you know cut out for them when [TS]

01:07:55   they get to the third book [TS]

01:07:57   oh yeah it can't be as messy as matrix [TS]

01:07:59   revolutions we'll just yeah okay you've [TS]

01:08:04   always got hired at a time [TS]

01:08:05   you always got that third at third movie [TS]

01:08:08   that it will never be as big a problem [TS]

01:08:11   as The Matrix Revolutions at least we [TS]

01:08:13   can help [TS]

01:08:14   alright so we have now beaten a hunger [TS]

01:08:17   games books to death in film as well we [TS]

01:08:20   like the first you know we like the [TS]

01:08:22   first move movie and book and the second [TS]

01:08:25   one has a lot of potential for a movie [TS]

01:08:26   and then the third book will everyone [TS]

01:08:28   will be interesting i hope they get a [TS]

01:08:30   good director and a good screenwriter [TS]

01:08:31   interesting problem for them to solve [TS]

01:08:33   and they'll have lots of money to use to [TS]

01:08:35   strive solving yes though I pray they [TS]

01:08:37   won't try and fit into such a tight [TS]

01:08:40   release date they're trying to get [TS]

01:08:41   catching fire out for next november i [TS]

01:08:44   believe so November 2013 which is crazy [TS]

01:08:47   and they're trying to fit in shooting [TS]

01:08:49   before Jennifer [TS]

01:08:50   Lawrence runs off for x-men in the fall [TS]

01:08:54   this fall [TS]

01:08:54   what a boost so yeah let's let's hope [TS]

01:08:57   they manage to do this and not [TS]

01:08:58   compromise on story but financially [TS]

01:09:00   motivated that's for sure [TS]

01:09:02   so that's true we'll see alright well i [TS]

01:09:04   would like to thank my guests for [TS]

01:09:07   joining me today red thank you so much [TS]

01:09:09   thank you Jason and maybe odds be ever [TS]

01:09:11   in your favor [TS]

01:09:12   thank you Lisa thank you for being here [TS]

01:09:15   thanks Lisa [TS]

01:09:16   alright what they talkin to sort of the [TS]

01:09:17   season two so until our next edition of [TS]

01:09:20   the comfortable thanks for joining us [TS]

01:09:22   I'm Jason still see you next time [TS]

01:09:34   [Music] [TS]

01:09:40   actually speaking of running out my [TS]

01:09:42   daughter is kind of having a nutty [TS]

01:09:43   downstairs so I'm gonna have to go play [TS]

01:09:46   mom now that I had so much fun talking [TS]

01:09:47   about this with you guys [TS]

01:09:48   Lisa thank you for being here alright [TS]

01:09:50   enjoy bye [TS]

01:09:52   alright so I guess I'm the only survivor [TS]

01:09:55   i win the Hunger Games uh yeah something [TS]

01:10:00   like that except you're still here right [TS]

01:10:02   we do we make a deal are we from the [TS]

01:10:04   same district we get to do we you know [TS]

01:10:06   you hear some poison berries you can ok [TS]

01:10:09   you know well we'll end this podcast [TS]

01:10:11   together [TS]