82: Apocalypse Book Club

0:00:00the incomparable podcast number 82

0:00:08Morris went well

0:00:12welcome back to the uncomfortable

0:00:14podcast we are so glad to have you join

0:00:16us because quite frankly we're all quite

0:00:18depressed because we read lots of books

0:00:20about the end of the world

0:00:23i'm your host Jason snow this is a new

0:00:25addition of our book club and our

0:00:27primary book club selection today is a

0:00:30short story collection by maureen McHugh

0:00:32called after the apocalypse

0:00:35it's a collection of looks like nine

0:00:37maybe short stories that generally

0:00:39involve horrible things happening to the

0:00:41world and society 10 shorts and short

0:00:43stories and nice even ten involving

0:00:46miserable things happening too miserable

0:00:48people and then to throw in other things

0:00:50we'll talk about other kind of

0:00:51apocalyptic end of the world kind of

0:00:53literature as we go

0:00:55joining me on this most up with people

0:00:58of podcasts Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa

0:01:02hi there also scott McNulty hi Scott

0:01:05hello is the world still there where you

0:01:07are well I who knows

0:01:10Philadelphia you can never tell that's

0:01:12pretty much the end of the world anyway

0:01:13and John siracusa hai jaan i find the

0:01:16end of the world exhilarating maybe only

0:01:18one huh

0:01:19that's because you hate everything I

0:01:22don't know maybe they could be it

0:01:24ok it's possible that this one possible

0:01:28scenario so I can't even remember who

0:01:30recommended this book because I'm yeah

0:01:32who recommended this is elisa should we

0:01:35blame Lisa or is it Scott

0:01:37whoo-hoo see it's already I society I

0:01:40societies already deteriorated is

0:01:42already crumbling yeah we're turning on

0:01:44each other that's the message and all of

0:01:46these you're all alone no one likes you

0:01:47you're gonna die up it may have been me

0:01:53alright because I second it with them

0:01:57all right thinking train because i had

0:02:01first heard of marine McHugh through an

0:02:04anthology I got one of the micros McCall

0:02:06edit anthologies called alternate

0:02:08tyrants and the story the caps off that

0:02:10apology is called Lincoln trained by

0:02:13mari mchugh and without giving anything

0:02:16away the story in the premise is that

0:02:18Lincoln survived the assassination but

0:02:21there are group of people were basically

0:02:22acting as president in his stead

0:02:25since obviously you don't just bounce

0:02:27back from a bullet to the brain and one

0:02:29of their bread ideas is to round up with

0:02:31a call recalcitrant southerners and then

0:02:33pack them on trains and send them out to

0:02:35encampments in Indian country and the

0:02:39story Lincoln train is about the

0:02:40experience of one so-called recalcitrant

0:02:42Southerners who can't understand why

0:02:43this is happening to her and it goes

0:02:46over the events of what happens when the

0:02:48people who used to be your countrymen

0:02:49and where your enemy combatants have the

0:02:52upper hand in this in a bad situation

0:02:55so anyway that has nothing to do with

0:02:56this book you know if it's not that

0:02:59sounds terrible it's kind of an upbeat

0:03:01story for her

0:03:02yeah i was going to say it sounds music

0:03:03down she's a little bit of a little bit

0:03:06of a downer the enumerated this is this

0:03:08is after the apocalypse the short story

0:03:09collection this is sort of the theme and

0:03:11and I think that they were the stories

0:03:14were chosen I assume that not every

0:03:16story she writes about the end of the

0:03:18world and not all these stories were

0:03:20really about the end of the world but

0:03:22they are all you know what's it let's

0:03:24let's tackle we pick this election i

0:03:25went back and read her first collection

0:03:27which is mothers and other monsters and

0:03:30what do people do with everybody laughs

0:03:34nervously and and this is just I i think

0:03:37one of the big themes in her work is we

0:03:39are all selfish we are all alone we will

0:03:41never have to understand your connection

0:03:43with another human being and like as

0:03:45long as you understand that going into

0:03:47her stories there's a lot to appreciate

0:03:48just don't ever read them when you're in

0:03:51a bad mood or despairing over the state

0:03:52of humanity into everybody have a good

0:03:55time

0:03:56yeah and i will say i record I i got

0:04:00this book because I'm always fascinated

0:04:01when a genre books kind of crossover

0:04:06into mainstream and people are talking

0:04:08like people who don't normally talk

0:04:10about drama books are talking about it

0:04:11and after the apocalypse was one of

0:04:13these things that like you know the New

0:04:14York Times Book Review people were

0:04:16writing about it and so intrigued me

0:04:18yeah and so there you go that's why

0:04:21funny how that didn't happen with let's

0:04:23say I don't know Harry Potter they found

0:04:26crossing over into the mainstream should

0:04:28repeal you internet service a warning to

0:04:30park there

0:04:31exactly thats that's the wrong kind of

0:04:33Main Street now so in this book we have

0:04:36we have we have a zombie apocalypse we

0:04:41have anything that story by the way we

0:04:43have a I'm gonna let me run down here we

0:04:45have a zombie apocalypse we have an

0:04:46unstated economic apocalypse we have a

0:04:49dirty bomb apocalypse we have an

0:04:51artificial intelligence not really an

0:04:53apocalypse but an emergence we have a

0:04:56medical experiment gone awry but not

0:04:59really an apocalypse we have a chicken

0:05:00nugget apocalypse we have an unstated

0:05:03apocalypse and then there are some

0:05:05people who fly right that's basically

0:05:07what we've got here i'm not question was

0:05:09a flying people have to do with anything

0:05:11are they in an apocalypse there are

0:05:13flying people but wonder if it comes

0:05:15down to the breakdown of emotional

0:05:17equilibrium and reality

0:05:19yeah yeahs because i think the theme

0:05:22that goes through all of these books is

0:05:23these every every single one is about

0:05:26people who have survived an event that

0:05:28has completely altered their worldview

0:05:30and and their frame of reference because

0:05:32in the effect of centrifugal forces

0:05:35which is about the prion disease that

0:05:38that's passed on through the chicken

0:05:39mcnuggets there she really doesn't spend

0:05:41a whole lot of time on the most horrific

0:05:43aspect of the story which is that

0:05:44anybody who's ever eaten chicken

0:05:46mcnugget get this disease and for me I

0:05:49thought that the worst part of the story

0:05:50was you have this poor fourteen-year-old

0:05:52kid who is losing her mother and she has

0:05:54nobody it and she cheat literally feels

0:05:57like the best thing she can possibly do

0:05:58in her life is set fire to her house

0:05:59which he does

0:06:01yeah yeah

0:06:03right she's what she's she's got her her

0:06:06to moms and they've split up and her one

0:06:11mom who's not her biological mom she

0:06:14calls from moms is is a is junkie with a

0:06:18new boyfriend who's kind of shifty and

0:06:21then her mom who stable has Alice as her

0:06:24new partner and but her mom has the

0:06:27chicken nugget disease and is dying and

0:06:30and Alice a hoarder exact analysis a

0:06:32hoarder yes yes yes don't forget that it

0:06:36just to throw that in there there's also

0:06:38supporting this chicken nugget

0:06:39apocalypse and hoarding exactly well i

0:06:41think because she wants every all she

0:06:43wants the main character to be as

0:06:44uncomfortable as possible so you can

0:06:46even there's no like home is not your

0:06:48sanctuary because they your mothers die

0:06:50and be it's full of somebody's other

0:06:51crap and you can't get comfortable on

0:06:53Alice Alice's being very supportive of

0:06:56her mother but Alice doesn't provide

0:06:58because she's a hoarder I mean that the

0:07:00home is no longer really a comfort for

0:07:02her and then her other her other mom is

0:07:05not really much of an option either it's

0:07:07really kind of Miss report story on any

0:07:10personal you've got that nice coupling

0:07:12of personal misery with complete

0:07:14societal misery because because there's

0:07:16a fatalism right that wasn't what

0:07:18everyone is eating chicken mcnugget on

0:07:20the disease is going to hit that's it

0:07:22five years to incubate her junkie mom's

0:07:24boyfriend basically since we could you

0:07:26know we could all be dead but there's no

0:07:27way to know until we get symptoms and

0:07:30there's no test and so every the whole

0:07:31society is degrading mostly out of

0:07:33fatalism right because you everybody

0:07:36could be dying it's fun fishing and

0:07:40irene and irene and Franny should get

0:07:42together and perhaps participate in some

0:07:44sort of competition in which they have

0:07:45to kill each other and the woods

0:07:46horrifying Hunger Games but ya know if

0:07:50for example in that story the apocalypse

0:07:52isn't about that the the prion disease

0:07:54because that's just a fact of life like

0:07:56radiation poisoning or anything else

0:07:59that can kill you the apocalypse is this

0:08:01woman's mother that this young girl's

0:08:02mother dying and her literally having

0:08:05nobody who's willing to step up and take

0:08:06care of her and and I I thought that was

0:08:09something that make you doesn't a lot of

0:08:11the stories is the the so-called

0:08:13apocalypse isn't necessarily the

0:08:14precipitating event like the bird flu

0:08:16especially economics what it is is the

0:08:18event that causes somebody to say okay

0:08:20life as I know it is over

0:08:22here's what comes next you know

0:08:25especially economics it's the

0:08:26realization is the main characters

0:08:27realization that she's effectively sold

0:08:29herself into wage slavery four-by-four

0:08:32for a biotech factory in the kingdom of

0:08:35the blind that's when she realizes that

0:08:37she's dealing with it with a sentient AI

0:08:41and standing up for that a is going to

0:08:43end her career as an IT troubleshooter

0:08:46you know things like that that these

0:08:49so-called catastrophic events are are

0:08:51are basically background noise and most

0:08:53of these stories they're all personal

0:08:55apocalypses exactly yeah yeah which is

0:08:59why I thought it was kind of weird that

0:09:00you left off with the naturalist because

0:09:02Starbase well okay so so here's what I'm

0:09:07struggling to say is on a prison camp

0:09:08some beer some can always yes what the

0:09:11lead character effectively does he gets

0:09:12curious enough about zombies to start

0:09:14wailing his federal prisoners and using

0:09:16them as lab rats in his experiments but

0:09:19you read this and you kind of see the

0:09:21spirit of 19th century naturalist in it

0:09:24you know he's almost like an Audubon of

0:09:25the zombie world and so was i was trying

0:09:28to figure out where his apocalyptic

0:09:30moment came from I guess basically he

0:09:32doesn't have one

0:09:33you know he's already living in it he is

0:09:35he's the master of the the zombie you

0:09:38know well federal prison right and then

0:09:41they close them and that's his

0:09:42apocalypse is leaving the zombie

0:09:45reservation and going back to with

0:09:47regular people and so now his call his

0:09:49skills are meaningless because he had

0:09:52kids he was building up quite a little

0:09:54in mutual of omaha presents some

0:09:56portfolio on the behavior of zombie the

0:09:59main character in The Naturalist he has

0:10:00that turn where he where he begins to

0:10:04set out to study the zombies and there's

0:10:07that moment where he realizes i'm going

0:10:10to kill my fellow prisoners or more

0:10:13disabled them and let the zombies kill

0:10:15them in order to learn more about them

0:10:17for science

0:10:18yeah which is here which is that which

0:10:20you know it is a prison he's a criminal

0:10:22in a prison right so it's like bro i

0:10:25guess you know that so that and it's

0:10:27pretty evident that these guys are

0:10:28killing each other into

0:10:29my eyes anyway right you know they set

0:10:32up in the beginning we have that whole

0:10:33backdrop of you know that had that the

0:10:35society has has degraded to the point

0:10:38because of the zombie apocalypse that

0:10:39they just said Cleveland put just zombie

0:10:42prisoners in their throat Linda's ami

0:10:45preserve and then for some reason they

0:10:47started throwing in prisoners into the

0:10:49preserve then she never makes that

0:10:51reason clear and then there's like this

0:10:53throw line at the end of the story about

0:10:55how the Supreme Court has ruled

0:10:56unconstitutional of presidents been

0:10:58impeached and if i may be frank that was

0:11:00actually the part I found the most

0:11:01unrealistic because seriously like when

0:11:06have you known anybody in Washington to

0:11:07take any capability for any gross

0:11:09violation of human rights by the federal

0:11:11government

0:11:11well after the zombie apocalypse Lisa's

0:11:14yeah it's a new age of personal

0:11:16responses Dombey lobbying Samaritans

0:11:19there's going to be a zombie lobby where

0:11:21they probably have like zombie junkets

0:11:22we can go shoot zombies and dick cheney

0:11:24sheets when the face i mean that's

0:11:25that's where we're going with this

0:11:26I did like in The Naturalist i like i

0:11:29like the idea that that that seems

0:11:33realistic to me i guess this is what you

0:11:34were saying that society would would

0:11:36react to something like a zombie

0:11:38apocalypse in that way of saying well

0:11:40you know we are going to just toss the

0:11:42criminals in with the zombies because we

0:11:44don't we don't care right everybody

0:11:46might as well be zombies or zombie food

0:11:48because they're there they're criminals

0:11:50and and so we're just gonna throw them

0:11:52away

0:11:53it solves two problems at once i right

0:11:55am within that then they're there is as

0:11:57there are in our prisons today there is

0:11:58this kind of culture that grows up

0:12:00there's a guy who's kind of like the

0:12:01leader but then this guy breaks away and

0:12:03goes out into the city and begins his

0:12:06studies and and begins capturing

0:12:08prisoners and and using them in his in

0:12:10his zombie studies that you think he was

0:12:12actually interested in science I think

0:12:16he was interested in surviving think he

0:12:18was curious about what about what the

0:12:20rules of the zombies were I guess I put

0:12:22it that way because once he saw that

0:12:23zombie in the tin foil lined dumpster

0:12:26he was like what is the deal that was

0:12:28the Dalton actually that was that was a

0:12:29brilliant little moment right it's like

0:12:31why does the zombie have a like a little

0:12:33sun bowl that he lives he wants to be

0:12:36warm and then he let me hear that one

0:12:38more is like on the fire escape and he

0:12:40realizes the zombies don't look up then

0:12:42he's

0:12:42curious right he's got some curiosity

0:12:44I'm not sure yet that he was really

0:12:46doing doing it for science but i do

0:12:49think that he had some curiosity and

0:12:51then had no problem basically killing

0:12:53people because i was the key trait that

0:12:54I saw him was that he was nuts because

0:12:57he wasn't he wasn't really insane but at

0:13:00and the reader is interested in the

0:13:02zombies but he's a survivor and he was

0:13:04like huh

0:13:04like you know the same way you might be

0:13:06like what kind of bird that is he's

0:13:08thinking that while he sacrificing like

0:13:10this guy that he's tricked into you know

0:13:12killing people is pretty nonchalant

0:13:13about well he's got this whole list of

0:13:15questions about how they behave and so

0:13:18part of it was I need to answer these

0:13:20questions so I know what I what I can do

0:13:23without getting myself killed by zombies

0:13:24but by the end of it when he starts

0:13:26seeing the zombies rhythmically bobbing

0:13:28their heads after eating and he notices

0:13:30that it's like a communication behavior

0:13:33that's what I think something shifts in

0:13:35his brain and that's why the story ends

0:13:37with him knowing that he would have

0:13:38liked to have set one last fire for the

0:13:40zombies that's him i would like to find

0:13:42like his scientific curiosity does gets

0:13:45parked right at the point where it gets

0:13:47picked up but he's gonna be a world's

0:13:49foremost expert on zombies now right i

0:13:51mean he'll be he'll be family may have

0:13:53this personal apocalypse Scott but you

0:13:56also get I got the sense that he he

0:13:57might be kind of famous like a media

0:13:59because he gets it gets interviewed and

0:14:01yeah and-and-and the pictures of him as

0:14:04he's removed from the from the from

0:14:06cleveland on her are all over the news

0:14:09and that you know the and that struck me

0:14:11as kind of funny to that this guy who

0:14:13just killed all of these people and

0:14:15nobody knows or cares about it he's

0:14:17going to end up being hailed as a

0:14:20survivor and and maybe ultimately as

0:14:22somebody who's an expert on on how the

0:14:25zombies behave but I got the sense that

0:14:27he did not care for his fellow man he

0:14:31would kill them so easily and he was

0:14:34really really interested in the zombies

0:14:36so they took away from the one thing he

0:14:38was interested in and I don't think it's

0:14:40going to end well for him i don't know i

0:14:41think i'll become like David

0:14:42Attenborough of

0:14:44I'll be like little leading at you know

0:14:46expeditions into cleveland or maybe what

0:14:50you'll do is he'll he'll redirect that

0:14:51energy into killing people for for

0:14:53another yeah because just going to kill

0:14:55back different reasons yeah we'll find

0:14:57another reason to do it he'll you know

0:14:59he'll find help frame another

0:15:01investigative question and go back to

0:15:03killing people in some way so we should

0:15:05talk a little bit about uh about useless

0:15:07things which is another story in this

0:15:09collection which is about a sculptor a

0:15:11woman in the southwest to makes these

0:15:14creepy uh living dolls they're like

0:15:19newborn newborn and all replicas and she

0:15:22makes makes them for people over the

0:15:25internet and and there's basically a

0:15:27gradual economic apocalypse that's

0:15:29happening that comes with a lot of her

0:15:32stories where where the gulf between the

0:15:34haves and have-nots just gotten so big

0:15:36that people are are falling off of the

0:15:37edge into the Gulf yeah i'm clearly

0:15:39that's her that's the world you in na

0:15:41post Great Recession kind of environment

0:15:45that would seem to be a fairly

0:15:47straightforward reasonable extrapolation

0:15:50to say that you know this is not going

0:15:52to get better it's going to keep getting

0:15:53worse people are going to get pulled

0:15:55apart it's gonna be this gradual

0:15:57apocalypse which I find actually in some

0:16:00ways more realistic and and more

0:16:02terrifying than the kind of sudden

0:16:03apocalypse so it's like what if they're

0:16:05suddenly we're zombies or what if there

0:16:06was a horrible bomb that exploded in

0:16:09irradiated Maryland yeah and and much

0:16:11worse to have it just be things just

0:16:14kept getting worse and and worse and

0:16:15worse until everybody you know lost

0:16:18their jobs and and waiting to make your

0:16:20writing a college yeah you need you know

0:16:22you're filled with obsolete during your

0:16:23lifetime something like that which is

0:16:25horrifying but I this is it was kind of

0:16:28a i found a kind of a bizarre story and

0:16:30i liked at something that happens in

0:16:33that story and also in a couple of the

0:16:36others it definitely one of her one of

0:16:39the accused of motifs here is the

0:16:42American attitude that poor hungry

0:16:44people are from somewhere else

0:16:47yes and there's a there's an actual line

0:16:49in one of these stories I'm trying to

0:16:52remember which one might be after the

0:16:54apocalypse where where that somebody

0:16:57basically said

0:16:57as you know where Americans you know or

0:16:59not we're not hungry homeless refugees

0:17:02don't use the word refugee but it's a

0:17:05lot yeah that's the last time yeah

0:17:06what's up with the convoy and she's

0:17:08horrified by yeah and in in in useless

0:17:11things it's theirs

0:17:12she makes a similar observation about

0:17:15the the migrants who are coming by and

0:17:17doing some you know doing some work in

0:17:20her garden before they move along that

0:17:22there's definitely that feeling that you

0:17:25know just because you've gotten

0:17:27comfortable being in a wealthy country

0:17:29doesn't make you any different as a

0:17:31person and any more subject to you know

0:17:35terrible economic conditions then

0:17:37somebody who's in Africa or in you know

0:17:40in anywhere any other poor part of the

0:17:43world must plus then she turns to making

0:17:46sex toys return to make sex toys because

0:17:51Justin their property taxes gonna be

0:17:52exactly going to make somebody creepy

0:17:54creepy

0:17:56so what there's a weird part of that

0:17:59story where it turns out that that she's

0:18:02making his living dolls for this couple

0:18:04and it turns out that it's just the guy

0:18:05who's using them and he's using numbers

0:18:07like a pickup and pick-up line why I'm

0:18:10grieving my dead child and presumably

0:18:12that that gets him a pity role and and

0:18:15again and on it goes from there it's

0:18:18just so so strange whole that whole

0:18:20story so strange it is a strange story

0:18:23well I i think what it also points out

0:18:25is is artist kind of a commodity of a

0:18:28stable society where where people feel

0:18:30comfortable spending money because no

0:18:33doubt they got in and one of the things

0:18:35is the guy who ordered the dolls clearly

0:18:36doesn't appreciate the art in the effort

0:18:38that goes into him and as an artist you

0:18:41can't make a living when the world was

0:18:42crumbling apart you know the artist one

0:18:45of the first casualties of of any

0:18:46apocalypse

0:18:47so you doing thing turned to other

0:18:50methods right that's got it was just yep

0:18:56that's the risk you don't really care

0:18:57for that story let's just gotta tell

0:18:59it's a scary moment to where she goes

0:19:00over to to get her dog girl your dog's

0:19:04been found you a relatively nice guy and

0:19:05his like son and his friends are

0:19:08man out of the desert riding their their

0:19:11bikes or whatever it is they're there

0:19:12for this their motorbikes and he is

0:19:15underdone mom and he basically says just

0:19:17don't even look at them don't talk to

0:19:18them just get in your truck and drive

0:19:19away and you get the sense that although

0:19:21these older people are kind of trying to

0:19:23hold with having some sort of society

0:19:25that everybody below a certain age

0:19:28pretty much is just completely lawless

0:19:29and scary and and and dangerous and

0:19:31horrible

0:19:32oh yeah there's a there's a lot of that

0:19:34story actually I'm where it's the

0:19:36parents of the girl who's pregnant my

0:19:39camera that Cheryl's your name Cynthia

0:19:41but they mention that the inside the

0:19:44house it was like a flashback to 20

0:19:46years ago because they have this working

0:19:47flat screen TV and it's air-conditioned

0:19:49the surfaces are all cleaning the

0:19:50refrigerator is packed and there's a

0:19:52line in there about how these people

0:19:56still regarded thoughtful liberalism is

0:19:58their birthright and the narrator had

0:20:01two until she realized it was her

0:20:03generations burden to be born in

0:20:04interesting times and it was just it was

0:20:08just a really nice really scraping

0:20:10throwaway Sherry's name of the woman i'm

0:20:12looking it up now

0:20:13oh i thought this life of thought that

0:20:17here's the one I thought this life of

0:20:18thoughtful liberalism was my birthright

0:20:20before I understood my generation was to

0:20:22be born in interesting times and it

0:20:24points out that like you said you know

0:20:26for older it if it could be seen almost

0:20:28as a veiled indictment of say the baby

0:20:30boomers who are you know certainly

0:20:33pretty comfortable with their paid for

0:20:34houses and the jobs they refuse to

0:20:36retire from well in younger generations

0:20:39you've got crazy high rates of

0:20:40unemployment and people are questioning

0:20:43the need to build families in

0:20:46traditional two-parent family structures

0:20:47and and things like that you know it's

0:20:49it's just this huge social gulf between

0:20:51older generations and younger

0:20:53generations thanks the actions of one

0:20:54generation and not necessarily the

0:20:56younger one now so uh John what did you

0:21:00think of the the kingdom of the blind

0:21:03yarra you're a technology guy and a

0:21:05computer and a programmer that that that

0:21:07was I thought interesting in that it was

0:21:09trying to portray not not so much the

0:21:13end of the world but at an emergence of

0:21:17computer intelligence which I thought

0:21:19was an interesting attempt to say it's

0:21:20not going to be like

0:21:22you know it if there's an artificial

0:21:24intelligence that kind of emerges it's

0:21:25not going to be like what you would

0:21:27think from a movie or a TV show it's

0:21:30going to be weird and hard to understand

0:21:32the people aren't going to really get it

0:21:33did that did that work for you or did it

0:21:36not work for you it the closer she got

0:21:38to trying to explain what was actually

0:21:41going on the worst things got so she

0:21:43should not have tried to talk about

0:21:45summer teenies or the actual work that

0:21:48the programmers were doing anything like

0:21:49that the actual activities of the Dai in

0:21:52terms of rolling the lights and taking

0:21:54data input like in broad strokes that's

0:21:57fine everything works and is an

0:21:58interesting idea

0:21:59yeah i thought that was cool it's like

0:22:00what's what the hell's going on and it's

0:22:02only later they have get that she should

0:22:04have her got a consultant in there

0:22:05because there are systems where there

0:22:07are complicated enough that and have so

0:22:10many different inputs that is difficult

0:22:11to for someone to wrap their head around

0:22:12but the way she described them is not

0:22:15really doesn't have any basis in

0:22:16anything I you know it's like she got

0:22:18some like a cobol programmer from 1960

0:22:20to talk to our and then like one time

0:22:23she wrote 10 print hello 22 yeah I was

0:22:27gonna say syntax error in 30 and then

0:22:28the lights went out in the basic program

0:22:31is alive but that's just because i'm

0:22:34going to a computer nerd i bet other

0:22:36other people probably thought it was too

0:22:37esoteric so that I think there was the

0:22:39seed of a good short story in there

0:22:42I'm just glad that in that story the

0:22:43female was not sexually menaced which is

0:22:46a rarity for this short story collection

0:22:48and I suppose there is manager there is

0:22:52menacing route before we leave this

0:22:54behind i wanted to touch on the last

0:22:57story before we as a transition but

0:23:00before we do that it is there something

0:23:03anything left that you observations

0:23:06about this in general about this

0:23:07collection that that that you guys would

0:23:10want to make I I it was fat it was short

0:23:13i read it very fast it was short and

0:23:18some of the stories i thought oh that

0:23:19was really interesting because i like

0:23:20sci-fi short stories and others i was

0:23:22like huh you know so it was it what

0:23:25about the flying bag for me no way

0:23:27people fly in my room I live alone

0:23:30they feel away because they needed to

0:23:32get on a boat so they were slightly

0:23:34closer to France friends I like that

0:23:38story that was the 1i connected with the

0:23:40least I liked it so much because it

0:23:42makes absolutely no sense it's okay it

0:23:44does make some kind of sense depending

0:23:46on what you assume the premises it and

0:23:49so it explain please

0:23:51well I don't know what do you have what

0:23:54is you worry each of your takes on on

0:23:55that story is there something that some

0:23:57sort of backstory that you can come up

0:23:58with it makes the story start to make

0:24:00some kind of sense

0:24:01no nothing it's almost like a mental

0:24:05contagion that people got some sort of

0:24:08mimetic virus is the only thing i can

0:24:10think of it was it was like in 24-hour

0:24:12flu only with a dumb idea I i figured

0:24:14it's like they're like super people and

0:24:16the super people are going to go to

0:24:17France and we had come in contact with

0:24:19the super people you get kind of like

0:24:21for hot up into the the wanting to go to

0:24:24France and being with the super people

0:24:25like they rub off on you yeah you would

0:24:27go to superheroes like that that

0:24:29probably place you just give some yeah I

0:24:31know soon as you see flying could be

0:24:33great to I went to of course the very

0:24:35ending of the thing where he's talking

0:24:36about the seeing somebody someone

0:24:40running in front of an SUV or something

0:24:41and and like time sort of stops and the

0:24:44running person had one foot off the

0:24:46ground but his left foot wiggle back and

0:24:48forth on his ankle

0:24:49it's like you they're all in a

0:24:51simulation in the simulation is pause

0:24:53but it's glitching back and forth from

0:24:55you know frame 2720 27-28 that type of

0:24:58things like to I saw it all as a virtual

0:25:01reality thing where they're all in a

0:25:03simulation and the simulation is

0:25:05breaking down and everyone going to

0:25:08France it means the title it's like

0:25:10something you from prison for something

0:25:11while I don't need to go to France and

0:25:13some some sort of virtual reality based

0:25:15reasoning that makes sense within the

0:25:16game world but everything's all messed

0:25:17up and since they're this is how would

0:25:20be like if you thought the game world

0:25:21was the real world and it was getting

0:25:23all confused you know sooner or later we

0:25:25all go to France

0:25:26yeah and the imagery at the end people

0:25:27flying works in virtual world in the

0:25:29imagery the end it was too i was it was

0:25:31strangely described i think it was

0:25:32trying to get to that you know

0:25:34pause jumping back and forth between

0:25:36frames kind of glitch so

0:25:38but I mean I I thought that was the most

0:25:40interesting of the stories also yes the

0:25:43it holds together the least but at least

0:25:45let me at least let me fill in something

0:25:47and decide what I think nice right

0:25:49so overall overall what's what's what's

0:25:55your take on this collection Scott what

0:25:57do you think well I I'm just a small by

0:26:00the way it is my fault and I'm okay with

0:26:03that because I enjoyed it i thought they

0:26:04were they were very interesting stories

0:26:06the last story of course incredibly

0:26:09depressing but overall it was worth you

0:26:14know that was that was not good but in a

0:26:16good way it was and what is it was a

0:26:18bittersweet but not really speed also

0:26:21it's just been a yeah I was gonna say

0:26:22where the sweet medic

0:26:24I don't like kids so you know I just

0:26:29but overall I enjoyed it i thought as

0:26:32well written

0:26:33interesting i like the fact that the

0:26:36apocalypse over the apocalypses weren't

0:26:40really the focus of the stories they

0:26:42were just kind of a set into motion

0:26:43other things so it wasn't like you oh

0:26:45look there's zombies

0:26:47let's run away but that you know she was

0:26:50thinking about what would happen in and

0:26:52kind of make them more personal look

0:26:54there's zombies let's kill other people

0:26:56and use them to test the zombies and you

0:26:58know about the zombies exactly but there

0:27:01are only want one zombie story which was

0:27:03good right

0:27:04that is a relief Lisa what about you

0:27:06what do you think of the collection

0:27:09well depressing as hell but yeah you

0:27:12know when I got my first take on it

0:27:15I couldn't stop thinking about the

0:27:18stories and what I liked about them was

0:27:22how they were really well-drawn

0:27:23character studies because many of these

0:27:25people are people you would want to talk

0:27:27to or know or be friends with but you do

0:27:30find themselves kind of understanding

0:27:32them and even feeling a little bit

0:27:33sympathetic for them and I think that's

0:27:35the sign of a good writer where she can

0:27:37make someone comprehensible and

0:27:39relatable to you even if there's nothing

0:27:41in your experiences that that you have

0:27:43in common and i think that one of the

0:27:46accused strength is she writes about

0:27:49working-class people and folks who are

0:27:51on the economic edge in a way that a lot

0:27:54of sci-fi authors don't do it for

0:27:58example if you read John barley he

0:28:01touches on a similar theme but his

0:28:03people are almost always insane

0:28:04resourceful and they happen to be oh i

0:28:06don't know like Motel clerks who are

0:28:07also rocket scientist to spare time and

0:28:09they have an uncle who's a survivalist

0:28:11so they'll be fine no matter what or

0:28:14they'll be William Gibson where there's

0:28:15some eccentric Japanese billionaire who

0:28:17hands of an AI box and next thing you

0:28:19know they're in a world of gilded

0:28:20privilege and this is the exact opposite

0:28:23of that and the only other author i can

0:28:25think of who does something similar is

0:28:27Nancy crest who also talks about what

0:28:30it's like to be an extra on the world

0:28:33stage of history when these bright and

0:28:35shiny privileged people are doing things

0:28:37that does that do in the world as we

0:28:38know it so I I think it's a really

0:28:40valuable contribution and I'm going to

0:28:42continue seeking out her work but i'm

0:28:44going to have to make sure i'm in a

0:28:45really good mental place before I don't

0:28:47because you will be afterwards

0:28:50John what do you thank you you are you

0:28:53don't read a lot of stuff because you're

0:28:55not a high-volume reader this was short

0:28:57yeah i like the fact that was short and

0:28:59I do read a lot of short story

0:29:00collections and i usually have queued up

0:29:02those a year's best fantasy and cyclic

0:29:05ends for many years past me that you

0:29:07know like I haven't read them all so I

0:29:08read i'll read them from like 2001 if I

0:29:10have no just go back and those

0:29:12collections have kind of spoiled me for

0:29:14collections like this because they those

0:29:15are by different authors so if you don't

0:29:17like one author you want a different

0:29:19taste you know the next door is going to

0:29:22be different and be i think the take to

0:29:25get into those collections that usually

0:29:27they want you to have either a really

0:29:31interesting premise especially for the

0:29:33the syfy ones or a really tight little

0:29:36narrative and these stories don't really

0:29:39have the premises are not that

0:29:40interesting like the one of these movie

0:29:42stand alone on their premises and the

0:29:43narratives are definitely not beginning

0:29:45middle and tight little short stories a

0:29:48business theme running through all of

0:29:50them and I kind of like a a a picture

0:29:52that she wants to paint but there's just

0:29:55this is the sameness after a while after

0:29:57eight or nine stories are I think you

0:29:59could have gotten away with like three

0:30:01of these and then had

0:30:02another author do the other you know six

0:30:04or seven how many even are there and

0:30:06this thing that the ss10 especially

0:30:08economics is actually in the year's best

0:30:10science fiction collection I'd read it

0:30:11before and that one actually seems to be

0:30:14some sort of structurally the most like

0:30:16those kinds of stories and that it's

0:30:18tighter it's got the the bird flu

0:30:20apocalypse but it's also about you know

0:30:22Chinese labor conditions and and they've

0:30:24got the you know she gets a fab phone

0:30:27and so it's definitely in the in the

0:30:29future but you know and that they meet

0:30:31the guy who who have wants to steal

0:30:34their their bio electronic box and all

0:30:37that that seems like an interesting kind

0:30:39of slice of future extrapolation that's

0:30:41much more like the kind of stories that

0:30:42I expect to see in those collections

0:30:44than some of these other pieces which

0:30:46are much more kind of a bleak and odd

0:30:49but I'm looking for out of Adam short

0:30:52story collection i want more likeable

0:30:54characters or more interesting premises

0:30:56or more variety so this kind of was like

0:30:59black to me more of the same yeah

0:31:03everybody dies so so yeah I mean

0:31:06thatthat's I I sort of feel that way to

0:31:08it is that it's tough being used to

0:31:10having a kind of very short story diet

0:31:12to have these be all variations on a

0:31:15theme and I can definitely see their

0:31:17various variations on a theme but ya

0:31:20didn't really do it for me I'm glad I'm

0:31:22glad it was short it certainly they were

0:31:25I didn't feel like I was struggling to

0:31:27read them but it didn't really it didn't

0:31:30really throw me what I what I actually

0:31:32liked you know I i will remember the

0:31:34naturalist because it is kind of an

0:31:36interesting idea of these the zombie

0:31:38prison that's collective a nice

0:31:40different kind of take on zombies that

0:31:42will just throw the president the

0:31:44zombies and see what happens and and

0:31:47after the apocalypse the reason I the

0:31:49last story which appears only I believe

0:31:52in this collection and as in the

0:31:54collections name for it

0:31:55the reason I wanted to use that as a

0:31:57segue is that it it seemed to me to

0:32:00almost be a a conscious reference to the

0:32:06road by cormac mccarthy in that that

0:32:09does everything exactly the opposite

0:32:11yeah it's an inversion right so it's but

0:32:13it's it's it's a mother and daughter

0:32:14instead

0:32:15father and son they're still apocalypse

0:32:18although it's not as as utterly

0:32:20apocalyptic as as in the McCarthy novel

0:32:23but I one of the things that I love I

0:32:27mean them so the road dark i have all of

0:32:30you read the road have no Scott because

0:32:35I I i had no rights so I fell and John

0:32:40has the why I'm okay with being spoiled

0:32:43on without so feel free

0:32:44well let me as a road and into the world

0:32:47it's bleak and it's bleak yes indeed

0:32:49deep dark and i love it i is one of the

0:32:52best books I've ever read

0:32:53I I it is one of my favorites it is

0:32:55super dark but I'm okay with that

0:32:57I I feel like I actually have a problem

0:32:59with a lot of these apocalypse stories

0:33:01because I feel like they don't really

0:33:03that their their their fantasies that

0:33:05they imagine a level of the society

0:33:09holding itself together and people being

0:33:11decent that I don't believe would

0:33:13actually be the case I actually believed

0:33:15it would be far more horrific than most

0:33:17of these especially in movies and TV

0:33:18shows you see like The Walking Dead is a

0:33:21good example is like The Walking Dead is

0:33:24too gentle

0:33:25I think it's too easy it would be much

0:33:27more brutal and horrible and they

0:33:29probably don't want to show that so the

0:33:30road

0:33:31father and son just like mother and

0:33:32daughter in that last story the big

0:33:34difference is it the road

0:33:36despite all of its bleakness it's about

0:33:39it's about a parent's love for their

0:33:40child and unconditional love and wanted

0:33:43to protect their child that's what it's

0:33:45about it it I that's why I find it so

0:33:47moving even with everything else taken

0:33:50out of the world it's about that after

0:33:53the apocalypse the story is inverted not

0:33:55only because its mother and daughter but

0:33:56because it's the mother just doesn't

0:33:59really she's annoyed by her daughter and

0:34:01doesn't really care and abandons her

0:34:03that's just what I didn't even bleaker

0:34:06view then the road though because you're

0:34:08saying yeah this is brewed were also

0:34:10selfish that yeah well this was this was

0:34:12a selfish woman you could tell before

0:34:13the apocalypse she was not a great you

0:34:15know like I boarded the first one the

0:34:17second one you know it's stubborn had it

0:34:20but then you tips

0:34:21this is the show you all yeah this was a

0:34:23bad mother before the apocalypse and

0:34:25after what a surprise she continues to

0:34:27be a bad

0:34:28listen to me i was amazing she was is at

0:34:30stuck with her daughter for as long as

0:34:31she did but when we need her she's

0:34:34complaining about her daughter but

0:34:35you're right so in that way it is bleep

0:34:37horrible justification she makes where

0:34:39she's like I ran away from home for the

0:34:40first time when I was just yeah

0:34:41overnight was my mind and I'm thinking

0:34:43yeah I'm gonna get you know you read

0:34:45away the stable a country where you

0:34:47didn't have refugee camps and you're

0:34:49abandoning this child to a stranger you

0:34:53know it was right where some in the road

0:34:55you know there is nothing there is

0:34:57nothing left and the only thing there is

0:34:59that the father is taking care of of the

0:35:02son of his child no it's completely yes

0:35:05everything else is broken down

0:35:07completely like everything like

0:35:09photosynthesis has broken nothing and

0:35:12everything is dangerous and everybody's

0:35:14cold and miserable and it's just yeah

0:35:16yeah very different than this where it's

0:35:19like oh there might be a scary person

0:35:20house ok let's run over fine now

0:35:23yeah right i want to bring up the road

0:35:25because i think that that when i was

0:35:26reading the this collection that was the

0:35:28the book that came back to me is I think

0:35:31a a great exploration of that end of the

0:35:35world feeling and that if I had to pick

0:35:38a favorite on this topic that would

0:35:41certainly be it not only like I said not

0:35:44only because yes i am i find it really

0:35:46touching that in the midst of all this

0:35:48darkness it really is about a father a

0:35:51loving his son and Cormac McCarthy

0:35:54dedicated the book to his son but that

0:35:58it also i thought was a real a really

0:36:01accurate

0:36:03I don't know I to me seemed believable

0:36:04poor trail of just how awful and

0:36:09miserable people would be put in a

0:36:11circumstance like that its unflinching

0:36:13and saying people with your horrible

0:36:15things they will kill each other they

0:36:17will each other they will farm each

0:36:20other they will do they will do anything

0:36:22to survive and you know don't pretend

0:36:25that that it wouldn't come to that if it

0:36:27had to which is really depressing but i

0:36:29think it's true it's also much better

0:36:32writer I think I mean but what he does

0:36:34in that book of the way his weird style

0:36:35that he has and how its describing

0:36:37situation no commas and very few and no

0:36:40quotes

0:36:41one explanation marks reading other

0:36:42stories that are steps that are similar

0:36:44premise where people are like on the

0:36:46road like those them in that after the

0:36:48apocalypse they're traveling why they

0:36:50traveling well what else you gonna do

0:36:51you gotta go somewhere because you think

0:36:52so everything's better than anywhere

0:36:53else

0:36:54everything's better in Canada yeah and

0:36:55and you know they're just describing

0:36:58everything that goes on and the the

0:37:00discussions between a mother and a child

0:37:01crying McCarthy makes it look so easy

0:37:03where he is going to use quotation marks

0:37:05and it's it's it's amazing the stuff

0:37:08that he gets across in that book in such

0:37:11a small amount of time that other

0:37:12authors ramble on and on trying to

0:37:14express what he expresses in like the

0:37:16exchange of seven unquoted things that

0:37:18we think might be said but possibly also

0:37:20thought that was a real you know he's a

0:37:22great writer so that's that's a level

0:37:24above when I like one great writers take

0:37:27on a topic that is nerdy you know like

0:37:29the end of the world or something

0:37:30because you get the best of both worlds

0:37:32yeah yeah Scott you read the road where

0:37:36you'd thoroughly depressed her I i read

0:37:39the road immediately after i read it

0:37:41after the apocalypse

0:37:42oh my was Oh further depressed arm

0:37:46I'm glad you're still with us come out

0:37:48now it's all gonna be over

0:37:52no I mean you know it's hard to prepare

0:37:55anything to Cormac McCarthy oh because

0:37:58it's jon said he's such a brilliant

0:37:59writer that I think any book about the

0:38:02apocalypse compared to the road will

0:38:04suffer greatly because he's a genius and

0:38:07very few people are a Maureen with you

0:38:10is a fine writer but she is not as good

0:38:13a writer as he is so he takes something

0:38:15that is a fairly cliché kind of premise

0:38:19right if you make something that is

0:38:20beautiful and special and amazing where

0:38:24she takes some interesting premises and

0:38:27make some interesting stories there's

0:38:29nothing wrong with that but it's just a

0:38:30whole different level of writing is

0:38:32going on right so you like the roads i

0:38:35didn't realize that was a new read for

0:38:36yourself it was because I i bought it

0:38:39many years ago and I read like 20 pages

0:38:40of it and I said this is way too

0:38:42depressing and I picked it up again when

0:38:45after i read after the apocalypse and I

0:38:47thought well maybe it gets better at the

0:38:49and uh i don't know i don't want to

0:38:53spoil the ending was earlier for Lisa

0:38:54but i would have if she wasn't I would

0:38:57have discussed but your ball thought of

0:38:58the ending and what was actually I no

0:39:00please I'm i have no plans to read it

0:39:02alright because this is this is horrible

0:39:05because this is one of the side effects

0:39:07of parenthood that no one warned me

0:39:08about which is that after you have your

0:39:10after I had my child I really can't

0:39:12handle child in parallel stories I I

0:39:14can't handle stories where children lose

0:39:16their parents or parents lose their kids

0:39:18it's just this guy i read i read the

0:39:20road after i had kids and I i felt i

0:39:22understood and appreciated more because

0:39:24it spoke I i agree there's a lot of

0:39:27cheap child in peril stuff that I I

0:39:29can't take anymore and actually I hate

0:39:31it now because I I know how cheap it is

0:39:33and and I didn't feel that way with the

0:39:35road the road to me spoke of a feeling i

0:39:40would get this feeling just walking

0:39:41around with my kids and their be

0:39:42somebody coming the other way and we'd

0:39:44be like on an overpass over freeway and

0:39:46I think if this person tries to do

0:39:47something to me I will kill them because

0:39:49i have my children right

0:39:51I am so yeah I I just I've had that

0:39:53moment a few times where it's like I

0:39:55will do anything to protect my children

0:39:56and the road it in a better way I think

0:40:00that any other piece of art I've ever

0:40:02seen it speaks to that feeling that that

0:40:05just final visceral feeling that I will

0:40:07do anything I can for my children now at

0:40:11the end of the road

0:40:13I know the father of the father finally

0:40:17succumbs to whatever terrible elements

0:40:19and he gets hurt in the side he gets

0:40:21shot or pierced by and he was going to

0:40:24die from long island anyway

0:40:26yeah we guys he dies at the end he tells

0:40:29lies

0:40:29yeah and then but there's the man on the

0:40:31beach or whatever goes over to the Sun

0:40:32and says you know come with us and so

0:40:35the question the end of the book is is

0:40:36that guy on the up-and-up or is the Sun

0:40:40going to be tomorrow night's dinner

0:40:41right because they've got it sits him

0:40:43and a woman and two kids

0:40:45yeah so that they you know in theory

0:40:47their family but you know and he and he

0:40:51said well it goes far enough that he

0:40:53talks about how the woman talks a lot

0:40:55about god and he doesn't really talk to

0:40:57God but he he's gonna ask her first okay

0:40:59that he can talk to his dad who's dead

0:41:01but he's going to talk to him

0:41:03and see there there is that it is

0:41:06hopeful and ending as you're ever going

0:41:08to get out of that book was the thing is

0:41:10a setup and all the things that had

0:41:12happened during the course of the book

0:41:13set you up to understand that things are

0:41:16not what they seem and that everything

0:41:18you think is normal is not so when

0:41:19you're presented with this at the end

0:41:20there's no way you you're put into the

0:41:23shoes of the kid and you're like you

0:41:25know don't believe it kid and you

0:41:26haven't you been paying attention for

0:41:28the past 200 pages you know dont thats

0:41:30exactly but no don't go but on the other

0:41:32hand is gonna die on his own anyways I'm

0:41:34sup so we just this poor kid out there

0:41:36he's forced to go i was so meet well

0:41:38that's that that's the happy

0:41:39wow that's good for me I that that for

0:41:44me the end of that book is all about the

0:41:45lowered standards at the end of the

0:41:47world that that's the happy ending at

0:41:49the Hat is like well they're not eating

0:41:51me immediately they write that might

0:41:54protect me and not eat me and but you

0:41:58but by knowing what you know about

0:42:00everything else that's happened you

0:42:02don't go in saying oh it's gonna be fine

0:42:04you're like know it

0:42:06watch yourself don't trust them maybe

0:42:09this will be okay maybe it won't be

0:42:11waiting at the same time it's like the

0:42:13best

0:42:14yeah yeah could sneak up to the stink up

0:42:16to the little one little denied him with

0:42:18a rock you know its best the best you

0:42:21could you can hope for is this chance

0:42:24you're fearing that too that's another

0:42:26way they could have gone with that is

0:42:27that because that the father is trying

0:42:28desperately to teach the Sun human

0:42:31values and to value human life so we're

0:42:33not going to be alive right but the kid

0:42:35is young so it's like now that the

0:42:36father's influence isn't there will he

0:42:39be able to maintain all the things that

0:42:41the father tried in part on him over the

0:42:43course of the book in the face of the

0:42:45fact that he has to survive and survival

0:42:46instincts

0:42:47besides which there's the as you read it

0:42:49you also realize that while its you

0:42:51really care about the father and the Son

0:42:53staying alive and father protecting the

0:42:55Sun it's very clear from the

0:42:58surroundings that everyone is not this

0:43:02is not a scenario that yeah that is

0:43:04going to turn around right it will be it

0:43:07will just continue going downhill until

0:43:09the last person is dead right it does

0:43:11have that beautiful interlude in the

0:43:12middle though with the bomb shelter

0:43:14it's really warm fuzzy center to this

0:43:17book is the bomb shelter thing where you

0:43:19know it's gonna end it can't last

0:43:20forever right fit for this little tiny

0:43:23brief period of time this that moment of

0:43:25normalcy that they live a whole life and

0:43:27you know however there long they were

0:43:28there week right right well that's

0:43:31that's the also dark but it but also

0:43:34beautiful which is really what that book

0:43:36is that that's kind of McCarthy also

0:43:38saying you know what's the point of life

0:43:40it's that they get they get some time

0:43:41together and they're enjoying that thing

0:43:43and you know everybody everybody is born

0:43:45everybody dies at the end and in the

0:43:47middle you hopefully hopefully have a a

0:43:49good life and they have the father and

0:43:50the Son have that nice little moment

0:43:52where they find the kind of undiscovered

0:43:54shelter that's can still got some food

0:43:57in it but clearly the way the world is

0:43:58going is nobody's making it out alive

0:44:00they're all just hanging on until they

0:44:03are all dead or even or eat well with

0:44:07your sweet you don't ya depending on how

0:44:11you're eating they could keep you alive

0:44:12for wrong slice off bits and pieces that

0:44:14you don't need a strip of excited

0:44:16because they're all i got a do that of

0:44:18course they do

0:44:19oh yeah how way worse the mat so Jesus

0:44:23house it's dark it's it's a matter of

0:44:26food now just just so does anybody else

0:44:28have have favorite or or I suppose hate

0:44:32of examples of apocalyptic stuff that

0:44:35you would like to talk about bring and

0:44:37bring up and while we're on the subject

0:44:38of depressing things i mentioned Nancy

0:44:41cross earlier this is actually think

0:44:42that she comes to over and over again to

0:44:44which is that humanity will eventually

0:44:46screw things up because some

0:44:48biotechnological experiment will go

0:44:50horribly arrived will be killed enough

0:44:52bye-bye genetically modified algae or or

0:44:56again somebody will invent an airborne

0:44:58cancer that you can catch just by

0:45:00sneezing and our her stuff tends to come

0:45:04out with how people will deal with the

0:45:06realization that they're setting foot on

0:45:09the road as it were

0:45:10you know one of the conceit seems to be

0:45:14that those of us who have experienced

0:45:15civilization will be taking it a lot

0:45:17harder than people who are born into

0:45:19lawlessness generating an Arkie since

0:45:21they will never know what they're

0:45:23missing

0:45:25but you know one of my classic ones is a

0:45:27paint a pail of error by Fritz liber

0:45:29which is when the earth has a

0:45:31catastrophic astrological event and the

0:45:34Earth's atmosphere is ripped away and

0:45:36basically there's a small family that

0:45:37man just survive only by virtue of dad

0:45:39having been a climatologist and figuring

0:45:42out how to keep the family going but I I

0:45:46tend to like the short stories but I do

0:45:50agree with Jason that most the time

0:45:52there's this here's a here's a scientist

0:45:54hiding out in somehow keeping the flame

0:45:56of civilization goin whereas like him

0:45:59I'll i suspect that if you if an actual

0:46:01apocalyptic event were to occur it if

0:46:04things would get hideous really quickly

0:46:06you know we would we would also generate

0:46:08to lawless anarchy oh yeah it wouldn't

0:46:10take very much i think now this is the

0:46:11thing about the walking dead the

0:46:13comic-book versus the the TV show is in

0:46:15the TV show everyone is still fairly

0:46:16clean and they're saying please and

0:46:18thank you and they're very very

0:46:20civilized and the the further you get

0:46:22into the comic like the worse it gets

0:46:24and it actually reflects how people

0:46:26would probably act if if they were

0:46:28waking up every morning in a world that

0:46:30was up to kill them right so you know

0:46:33that's that's the thing that I think not

0:46:34enough Apocalyptica fiction really

0:46:36brings home is the idea that that your

0:46:39inexplicably left alive in a place that

0:46:41wants to kill you and you have the urge

0:46:43to keep going and the question is what

0:46:45will you do

0:46:46at what point do your actions to survive

0:46:49outweigh your value you know as it as a

0:46:52living person so Scott you have any

0:46:55favorite apocalyptic stories

0:46:58well I i cannot remember the name of

0:47:00this book which is unfortunate or you'll

0:47:02fit right in with that many days

0:47:05there you go but it was it was written

0:47:06in the fifties set after a nuclear war

0:47:10where and somehow these the script

0:47:12people managed to have a house to find a

0:47:16house and like the Florida Keys and they

0:47:18could you know they learned how to farm

0:47:19and all the stuff and it was just kind

0:47:22of charging how they held out and you

0:47:25know they had a radio and they're

0:47:26listening for transmissions and at the

0:47:28end of the book a helicopter with the US

0:47:32flag lands on it and you know a guy

0:47:35comes out dressed

0:47:37not uniform and the first thing the main

0:47:39character asks him is did we win the war

0:47:42and the the American soldier says yes we

0:47:46did but it as i was reading this is like

0:47:48nobody won this war if there isn't it

0:47:50pretty clear where everybody loses

0:47:52so it's so didn't even more games

0:47:54exactly nobody wins him like a pretty

0:47:58was wasn't I yeah yeah he did say that

0:48:00you enter that it was a lonely he had

0:48:03but it was a very pro-america book even

0:48:07after you can't you can't stop us with

0:48:09your nuclear weapons will be five guys

0:48:12in the Florida Keys will laugh at you

0:48:14exactly Ivan until the radiation

0:48:19Clarence cloud drifts over and killed

0:48:20yeah yeah well it's the sequel it's much

0:48:24more depressing

0:48:25John do you have any I was trying to

0:48:29think of the weirdest apocalypse short

0:48:31story I read and I i know the story but

0:48:34I don't know the title author anything

0:48:36about it and actually I also search

0:48:38toured extensively before the show and

0:48:40totally can't but maybe Jason you've

0:48:42read it uh it was very short story and

0:48:44it was in one of those collections i

0:48:45think it's a bunch of people who are in

0:48:47this old house and it's snowing and at

0:48:51one point someone goes out into the snow

0:48:53and then gets ripped into bloody shreds

0:48:55and no one knows what it's about and

0:48:56it's a retreat back into the house and

0:48:58like the radio they're not getting radio

0:48:59signals anymore and just snow is still

0:49:01in the entire planet up and they're all

0:49:02trapped in this house and people keep

0:49:04dying gory deaths and it turns out this

0:49:06is weird

0:49:07invisible snow snake dragon monster is

0:49:10killing people and also having sex with

0:49:12them during any bells anybody there

0:49:15after he kills them did during usually I

0:49:18oh god it's very it's very very strange

0:49:21if you first you start to reading like

0:49:23it's a horror story where there's a

0:49:24monster on the loose the second like

0:49:26it's science fiction because the end of

0:49:27the world civilization is breaking down

0:49:28and I i like the idea of people being

0:49:30trapped in a house that was kind of one

0:49:31of those you know people going crazy

0:49:33trapped in one spot the apocalypse virus

0:49:35know is very interesting to me or just

0:49:37like well it's not stopping snowing but

0:49:40you know what what happens now we're

0:49:42just gonna be buried in snow and strange

0:49:44invisible magic ghost sex dragon

0:49:49monsters

0:49:50so that was the most interesting

0:49:51apocalyptic had never seen that if the

0:49:53snow won't get you the invisible dragon

0:49:55monsters will

0:49:56yes I and I think Nick and telling let

0:49:58me tell you that is not an easy story to

0:50:00go before

0:50:01yeah I know that but then the more sort

0:50:06of a mainstream stuff i'll just go back

0:50:08to my Steven catalog and and pick out a

0:50:10some favorites versus the long walk i

0:50:13always liked is a pretty simple premise

0:50:16apocalypse the short story and that has

0:50:20anyone read The Long Walk is that

0:50:21familiar to anyone know any Lisa while

0:50:24the premises that it's one of these

0:50:28nonsensical contest sort of like The

0:50:30Hunger Games where they don't explain or

0:50:32anything like that because the short

0:50:33story and a bumpy ride it yeah people

0:50:36get together and you walk when you stop

0:50:37walking the shoot you

0:50:39yes and the lab the last one not shot

0:50:41wins and it's all that story is not much

0:50:44of a promise right but you know it's

0:50:46like ya know because it's it's it's this

0:50:49wonderful internal story and it's

0:50:51basically about some people struggling

0:50:53against the constraints of both external

0:50:55society and the intrinsic biological

0:50:57limits that we all have to live with you

0:50:58know it's a great story that great and I

0:51:01was a great 413 or fine then the

0:51:03expanded version of that was the running

0:51:04man which but uh was that the actual

0:51:06star Stephen King story is the one that

0:51:08became that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie

0:51:09with the guy for families not a man yeah

0:51:11yeah well the short story was not quite

0:51:13as schlocky is that but that's what the

0:51:15The Naturalist reminded me of because

0:51:18you got zombies and you've got to

0:51:19preserve and you've got prisoners you

0:51:20just need cameras and audience and

0:51:23what's his name who's the family guy

0:51:26richard Dawson Richard glasses yeah

0:51:29now who loves you and who do you love

0:51:30that's all i needed to add to the

0:51:31naturalist there that I i do like short

0:51:35stories for apocalyptic stuff because

0:51:36really it's like I don't you don't need

0:51:38to explain how it happened i don't

0:51:39really know really know how it comes out

0:51:41just in the middle give me that part and

0:51:43so that works well for short stories I

0:51:44mean that we we mentioned on the Stephen

0:51:46King podcast last on the stand is really

0:51:48a an apocalyptic yeah that's that's a

0:51:50beginning middle and end thing but you

0:51:52need two thousand message of that and

0:51:53the beginning I mean I really love the

0:51:55beginning of the stand because really

0:51:58before the the the being plotted the

0:52:00street

0:52:01goes into gear he gets to spend some

0:52:04time destroying the world basically yeah

0:52:07that's not the good kind of apocalypse

0:52:09where you kill everybody because that's

0:52:10the key to the apocalypse is if you

0:52:12leave people around either alive or

0:52:14zombies then it's just bad and they all

0:52:15kill each other bad things happen to be

0:52:17killed pretty much everybody's like my

0:52:19separately right yeah except for like a

0:52:21couple hundred thousand people then you

0:52:23got something and especially if you know

0:52:25you didn't destroy everything there's no

0:52:26radiation there's no famine and there's

0:52:28no no diseases like everyone alive is

0:52:30immune

0:52:32that's pretty good he had the best

0:52:33premise for end of the world but you're

0:52:35like yeah no no problem

0:52:38nothing's really broken everything's

0:52:39here why can't we live like a civil

0:52:41society oh it's that you know well the

0:52:44the guy changes into a raven maybe put a

0:52:46damper on there that's why tell me

0:52:50something i had to that I wanted to

0:52:52bring up one hellish road one is here

0:52:56when everyone is Earth by David Brin

0:52:59which it is not a great book

0:53:01oh my fuck now oh my god it does feature

0:53:05my a very funny thing which is the plot

0:53:08is basically some scientists create a

0:53:09black hole and moves it drops into the

0:53:12center of the earth and begins consuming

0:53:13the earth slowly I'll do it I what

0:53:17you're gonna do it science

0:53:18he's got a savage computer hacker on one

0:53:21side and the gay hypothesis loving

0:53:23hippie on the other and it all works

0:53:25oh yeah and turns out the world doesn't

0:53:27add bicycle wacky stages and turtles

0:53:30into the like all because then just and

0:53:32that's what brings only have you heard

0:53:34the husband James it's black holes all

0:53:35the way down Johnny I have not read the

0:53:37postman ok that's his really that's his

0:53:40dark matter that is I want to disturb

0:53:42but I just like the idea that that the

0:53:43movie that will seminal hope we so we

0:53:47made a black hole the good news good

0:53:49news figured out how to make a black

0:53:51hole bad news going to consume the earth

0:53:53sorry we got a good eye and I'm gonna

0:53:56like when worlds collide it's like I got

0:53:58a rocket i'm leaving bye see ya takin

0:54:01the other the other 1i want to mention i

0:54:03think i mentioned this in a previous

0:54:04podcast it's it's a the second book in a

0:54:07series by john barnes the first book is

0:54:10a million open doors which I really

0:54:11loved about actually been

0:54:14currently-reading that I like this whole

0:54:16series you gave me this series my

0:54:18birthday one year i think i did well the

0:54:21second book is really depressing haha

0:54:23it's called Earth made of glass dad's

0:54:27about to in this in this series

0:54:29different cultures of current and

0:54:34extinct actually cultures are seated

0:54:36across all these habitable planets in in

0:54:39in space so you have these various

0:54:41cultures and and this one planet has

0:54:44these two essentially incompatible

0:54:47culture sharing it

0:54:48there-there tamil zand there are

0:54:51reconstituted basically Mayan cold and

0:54:54they're at each other's throats and the

0:54:56main characters in this in this series

0:54:58are basically like interstellar

0:55:00diplomats the the premise is really

0:55:02clever the idea is that it used to be

0:55:05interstellar travel took hundreds of

0:55:07years and so these all these cultures

0:55:09were essentially completely cut off

0:55:10which is why they sort of built the

0:55:12built society the way they did where

0:55:14they have these different cultures going

0:55:15and going out to run on their own except

0:55:18inconvenient somebody creates a device

0:55:22that lets you step through a portal from

0:55:24one planet to another and it causes huge

0:55:27culture clashes and its really an

0:55:29interesting idea anyway earth made a

0:55:31made a blast these diplomats come to try

0:55:33and settle the dispute between these two

0:55:36cultures and it doesn't go well and and

0:55:40and I i think that i think the book is

0:55:43worth reading anyway but i'm going to

0:55:44spoil it here which is essentially at

0:55:47the end they all launched like they're

0:55:48gamma 1 gamma ray beams and I they it's

0:55:53unclear but the diplomats who escaped

0:55:56right at the very end it believe that

0:55:59nobody is left alive and if there is

0:56:01anybody left alive there are very few

0:56:03people left alive these to get a lion

0:56:05culture goodbye town yeah kill each

0:56:07other they could date they they refused

0:56:10to its brinkmanship right they hate each

0:56:13other they refused to negotiate with

0:56:14each other you can draw the parallel

0:56:16with all sorts of different examples on

0:56:17modern-day planet earth and in the end

0:56:20they kill each other because there's

0:56:22nothing they will not live with each

0:56:24other so instead they died together and

0:56:26it's so depressing

0:56:27yet brilliant i thought it was really

0:56:29great that he went there and then you

0:56:30spend this entire book with these

0:56:32diplomats trying to stave off

0:56:33annihilation of this planet and they

0:56:36fail

0:56:37yeah anyway so earth made of glass

0:56:40i recommend it if you like it if you

0:56:43like it dark and that's a good series

0:56:45that John Barnes yeah i'm going to read

0:56:47that and I Fallon trivia the name of the

0:56:50book that i was describing its lat

0:56:52alas Babylon I was gonna guess that an

0:56:55hour because i read that book when I was

0:56:57anyway you were describing like Jesus

0:56:58sounds familiar to me I wonder if the

0:56:59last Babylon like I only think that

0:57:01because that's like the only book i read

0:57:03in school that I can remember but it

0:57:04actually is it is in fact you were right

0:57:07yeah yeah we can read that in like

0:57:09middle school or something and I had to

0:57:11read that in class

0:57:12oh interesting and the America one yes I

0:57:16i was gonna say that sounds a little bit

0:57:17like on the beach

0:57:18yeah that one to which is a

0:57:21post-apocalyptic Australian

0:57:22post-apocalyptic nukes all about the

0:57:25nukes

0:57:25yeah yeah australia all about the

0:57:28beaches even after the apocalypse

0:57:30still it means them i'm not the other it

0:57:33all wikipedia is also reminded me

0:57:34probably my favorite apocalyptic story

0:57:36which i completely forgot make fall by I

0:57:39seguro

0:57:40oh that's that's funny because that's

0:57:43like student that I astronomical

0:57:45apocalypse right is good

0:57:47yeah we are in 2012 that's a good

0:57:49old-fashioned mayan calendar pockets

0:57:51right it is true

0:57:52yeah they're obviously planet is always

0:57:55illuminated except when is so it has

0:57:58like three sons or something and every

0:58:005,000 years or something that they all

0:58:02eclipse at the same time and what

0:58:04happened he goes crazy everybody goes

0:58:06crazy except for the the astronomers who

0:58:09are locked in the observatory and the

0:58:11you know by the end you certainly are

0:58:14dead and it was turned into an awful

0:58:16which was less successful but any other

0:58:19ends any other worlds we should end the

0:58:22hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy is

0:58:23really about the world and the first 20

0:58:25pages and yeah

0:58:27sherry sherry tempers novel the gate to

0:58:29women's country supposed apocalyptic

0:58:31novel where it picks up presumably

0:58:35believe in not radical feminists are

0:58:37responsible for the resurgence of

0:58:38civilization

0:58:40and it's a good it's it's it's it's it's

0:58:44not a science fiction in the radical

0:58:47feminist tradition of the nineteen

0:58:48seventies rather what she does is she

0:58:50examines the kind of societies that are

0:58:52likely to come up if you do have a group

0:58:54of women survival is to get together and

0:58:56decide these are the rules of our new

0:58:57society going forth and it presents a

0:59:00pretty balanced view of of both the pros

0:59:02and the cons and feels pretty

0:59:05realistically with that with the climate

0:59:07issues you know what it would be like to

0:59:08have to live in a world that's

0:59:11effectively enduring nuclear winter

0:59:13it'sit's and it's one of temper can be a

0:59:17hard one to get into because as she's

0:59:19gotten deeper into her writing career

0:59:20like she's really began to flow on her

0:59:22to hobbyhorses big time in her too big

0:59:25automatic cause celeb RR restrict

0:59:28repressive gender roles in society both

0:59:29male and female and environmental

0:59:31degradation but but here that it's a

0:59:34really light touch and it's a nice

0:59:35little story and the kind of thing you

0:59:37could probably get to high school class

0:59:38and it would make them think and it's

0:59:41it's it's a very gentle post-apocalyptic

0:59:42book of that makes sense in the

0:59:44seventies when the there were successful

0:59:48disaster movies on a disaster movies

0:59:51like the towering inferno and and an

0:59:55airport there were some science fiction

0:59:55airport there were some science fiction

1:00:00shouldn't disaster books I I most

1:00:02notably i'm thinking of Lucifer's hammer

1:00:05by Jerry Pournelle and larry niven which

1:00:07is about a a comet smacking into the

1:00:09earth but they also did and then they

1:00:12did footfall which is very much

1:00:14Lucifer's hammer except what if the

1:00:16comet was pushed by alien who I but i

1:00:21enjoyed both those books just in the

1:00:23sense like really enjoyed the beginning

1:00:25of the stand where it's kind of fun to

1:00:27see the authors portraying just a

1:00:28complete devastation of of us of society

1:00:32yeah but in a fantasy sort of way so

1:00:34it's not as as depressing as something

1:00:36like the road which might be a little

1:00:38more realistic and i want to mention y

1:00:40the last man the comic which we did a

1:00:42podcast about which is about sort of

1:00:44half an apocalypse is all the men died

1:00:46except 11 but none of the women die but

1:00:49society is then has to deal with the

1:00:52fact that there are that the half the

1:00:54population is gone and and that's

1:00:58actually handled that's a lot of fun in

1:01:00that

1:01:00yes and it's a half of the population

1:01:02that actually managed transit

1:01:04infrastructure so and run large scale

1:01:07and large-scale agriculture so the

1:01:09sexism of society is is amusingly

1:01:12inferred right by the back that all

1:01:16these jobs have to be picked up because

1:01:18what what you know what we're with what

1:01:20women in positions of power and where

1:01:22were they not involved so so you are as

1:01:27you as you figure out how they deal with

1:01:29it you you were you get to infer from

1:01:31that just have sex the our society he is

1:01:35now and you find out why israel in

1:01:38Australia are going to end up ruling the

1:01:39season when the event happened with is

1:01:42where the inevitable wide elastic

1:01:43apocalypse it's gonna happen

1:01:46well miss you guys only Scott know

1:01:49that's right made alive in my middle

1:01:51name is why ya mean these books did make

1:01:54me not want to survive an apocalypse I

1:01:57don't know what people continue if that

1:02:00have if the road of population had dream

1:02:02right

1:02:02I'm not I'm not I'm not going out there

1:02:04and trying to survive for years a

1:02:07apocalypse i'm going to want to die

1:02:09quickly now I think a Comic Con last

1:02:11year they asked Robert Kirkman what he

1:02:13would do if the walking dead zombie

1:02:15apocalypse really happened and he said

1:02:17he'd hang himself he said I'm not

1:02:20interested in living in that world the

1:02:22next it's another biker I could have

1:02:24been inside water virginia which is the

1:02:25home to Fort Eustis an army base and

1:02:28handles logistics and it's also home to

1:02:30the Norfolk Naval Base in langley air

1:02:32force base and this is back in the

1:02:34nineteen eighties when we were all

1:02:35terribly terribly worried about nuclear

1:02:37weapons and we're talking about it over

1:02:40dinner one night and i asked my dad you

1:02:41know it is it possible that in debt my

1:02:43dad says cheerfully hobby were one of

1:02:45the first areas to be attacked and I

1:02:47said we could get I think we get in the

1:02:49car and go to the mountains that he goes

1:02:50no we're gonna get lawn chairs and we're

1:02:52going to sit out and watch the bombs

1:02:54fall because you don't want to live

1:02:55through the aftermath let's go out a big

1:02:56blaze of glory and that was the world

1:03:00and that was the world view that my

1:03:02parents and curtains going up which is

1:03:03if there's going to be an apocalypse

1:03:05type of event just just just go in the

1:03:08first wave there's there's no point in

1:03:10living 360 with morgan freeman comes on

1:03:13your TV and says we're going to be hit

1:03:15by a comet but we've got a system of

1:03:17caves to protect that don't go to the

1:03:20caves i go i get my surfboard and I go

1:03:22hang out on a balcony and wait for the

1:03:24tidal wave to come in and I got hanging

1:03:26ten

1:03:27yeah you guys can all die but i'm going

1:03:30to survive

1:03:31John will survive because like see that

1:03:33that's the problem with these messages a

1:03:34comment it's an astronomical event than

1:03:36you then you just don't mean does it

1:03:37really matter where you are like the

1:03:39whole parts toast atmosphere gets blown

1:03:40off fine but anything man-made even

1:03:43nuclear war it's a big planet you know

1:03:45it like it's probably not going to be

1:03:46used it's there but it's gonna be

1:03:47somebody like in the Himalayas was been

1:03:50living there is whole life for you know

1:03:52who knows where in some jungle somewhere

1:03:54area that it's a very very very big

1:03:56planet and we think about all is the end

1:03:58of the world but really most of the

1:03:59stories like it's the end of the

1:04:01population centers in the United States

1:04:03really but some dude in North Dakota's

1:04:05but no TV no radio will notice for like

1:04:08seven years probably you know I mean

1:04:10it's big mighty planet big planet i was

1:04:12also watching oddly enough Doomsday

1:04:14Preppers which is a new show that

1:04:17started watching that is better should

1:04:19be seriously it's just addictive making

1:04:21up these show titles now you don't know

1:04:23no no I cereal bowl fillers next I know

1:04:27but that's why I have a piece that I'm

1:04:28working on for TV about how dmca

1:04:30Preppers they're basically just like

1:04:31purpose-driven horrible murders they are

1:04:33holy purpose driven orders that I

1:04:35haven't I have admit an omission which

1:04:37is we had in our one in one of our barns

1:04:41on the property that i grew up on out in

1:04:43the countryside we had rashes my father

1:04:48purchased rack end-of-the-world rations

1:04:51so that again we would survive and be

1:04:52miserable for one together you do no no

1:04:56it was like it was like fallout shelter

1:04:59yeah offer so for how many weeks do the

1:05:02math and say assuming all this food is

1:05:03good and it's edible and what was you

1:05:06know I was pretty young i imagine that

1:05:08they would just you know where bro

1:05:10slow-roasted me or something

1:05:12no I'm good just in supplemental protein

1:05:14that's one of the key of the apocalypse

1:05:15is everybody else has to die because i

1:05:17clear the roads are not clear the roads

1:05:19literally but figuratively clears the

1:05:21way for you to then traveled to

1:05:23someplace that's more hospitable that

1:05:25you know you're not fighting for

1:05:26supplies with people you know you like a

1:05:29man who has his action plan in place for

1:05:31your pocket you've got your bug-out play

1:05:33out step on everybody but me and like 10

1:05:36of the people dies step to a party time

1:05:39you get to pick the 10 of the important

1:05:41question that is that actually that's

1:05:44one of my favorite things about

1:05:45apocalyptic stories is when the

1:05:46apocalypse is complete like John says

1:05:48there's almost nobody left

1:05:50that's actually great because then you

1:05:51have the scenes where people just walk

1:05:52through the streets and piston and and

1:05:54they've got new their choice of there

1:05:57like wearing big jewelry and when it is

1:05:59yours and little girl little girl used

1:06:02to I used to fantasize about living the

1:06:04Smithsonian i was going to survive the

1:06:06apocalypse about moving to the

1:06:07Smithsonian so that i could spend all

1:06:09day with the dinosaurs and hang out with

1:06:11a NASA capsule don't need to kill each

1:06:13other if they're only 15 of you and

1:06:15you've got the resources of all of its

1:06:17spread out spread out everyone gets a

1:06:19continent

1:06:20it's beautiful and not even just like

1:06:22the maze that this beautiful places that

1:06:23you would normally get to see that you

1:06:25know as long as you've got your your

1:06:26your needs provided for you which you

1:06:28would easily for life just from the

1:06:29stuff that's laying around

1:06:30you can you can set yourself up in

1:06:32Yosemite have the best view in the world

1:06:34every year you can go to a different

1:06:35continent it's the whole planet is yours

1:06:38how do you get to the other continents

1:06:39you walk here is you know it's it take

1:06:42your time and the answer is you would

1:06:44you teach yourself to fly there you go

1:06:47go to friends and 10 and you go to

1:06:50France right exactly going to friends as

1:06:52they say oh you don't need that reminds

1:06:56me of the the wonderful Twilight Zone

1:06:58episode where you know uh everybody dies

1:07:01you guys finally has enough time to meet

1:07:03at last one of his class and he breaks

1:07:05of classes am i paranoid dad used to

1:07:07tell me that one of the cautionary tale

1:07:08when I was growing up

1:07:09true always have a backup pair of

1:07:12glasses that's what we learned

1:07:13yes yeah but if everybody's again he

1:07:16could have any idea or through his

1:07:17prescription you can see them to the

1:07:19optometrist he could see well enough to

1:07:22find a optometrist and go through their

1:07:24lens is one by one that that's the story

1:07:26they don't tell you is that this

1:07:27Meredith gets up off his knees wanders

1:07:29down the street to the optometrist find

1:07:31some monocle and is he is a happy man

1:07:34with a monocle reading for the rest of

1:07:36his life

1:07:36they don't tell you that story the

1:07:38monocle the man with the blood happy

1:07:41monocle man it's a happy apocalypse yeah

1:07:45it's for everyone and everybody has

1:07:48their own continent

1:07:49this is great I feeling cheered up now

1:07:51I'm so glad that we had this a edition

1:07:53of the incomparable book club where we

1:07:55talk about the end of the world and and

1:07:56made it made it a positive it's just

1:07:58like John siracusa to turn my frown

1:08:00upside down

1:08:01that's right thank you for that and you

1:08:03will survive will all be doing at your

1:08:05hand but you survived sometimes John can

1:08:08harvest his hatred of everything for

1:08:09good

1:08:10well you can have my stuff about well I

1:08:17don't even need your permission you're

1:08:19not going to be here there are plenty of

1:08:21canned goods in my apartment so oh my

1:08:24god you turn into zombies are going to

1:08:26have to move to North Dakota's alright

1:08:28so we look up

1:08:29oh you have to do some experimentation

1:08:31on us to find out

1:08:33all right i'm gonna close up the

1:08:34incomparable book club for this time

1:08:36before we go we're going to have a new

1:08:41new edition of the book club coming up

1:08:42and we are it's very unlike us we've

1:08:45actually planned ahead

1:08:46the next topic for the incomparable book

1:08:48club we're calling it it's magic

1:08:51oh can you feel the magic we're gonna

1:08:53we're going to read the Night Circus by

1:08:55Erin Morgenstern Morgenstern i think yes

1:08:58Morgenstern not s Morgenstern that's the

1:09:00princess bride the Night Circus by Erin

1:09:03Morgenstern the magicians by lev

1:09:06grossman I is also on the agenda that's

1:09:10a magic book and where we may talk about

1:09:13although it's really large and if you

1:09:14don't have time to read it that's ok but

1:09:16we'll probably talk about Jonathan

1:09:17strange and mr Norell which is another

1:09:19magic you had a book i felt that these

1:09:22books all sort of seemed interrelated

1:09:25and so I thought we would talk about

1:09:26them in in bulk to save time and I I

1:09:31think they're all good in their own way

1:09:33and they're all very interesting so

1:09:34we're gonna that will be in three or

1:09:36four weeks we'll talk about magic and

1:09:38the night circus the magicians and

1:09:41Jonathan strange and mr Turner l and

1:09:43perhaps other magical books too but

1:09:46until then i would like to thank in this

1:09:47week's book club participants Lisa

1:09:50Schmeisser thank you as always for being

1:09:53here and being part of our end of the

1:09:55world conversation however the end of

1:09:58the world is there i am are you yes

1:10:01good for you good for you i may skip it

1:10:04Scott McNulty thank you for for

1:10:07participating in this apocalypse

1:10:08I feel fine that's good i was waiting

1:10:12somebody had to do it

1:10:13whoever at Scott in the REM reference

1:10:16pick you I had Scott I with yay and then

1:10:23John syracuse thank you for

1:10:24participating and we you will survive

1:10:26i'll save a spot in the top of the

1:10:28Empire State Building for you Jason

1:10:30I'll I'll come there Walker from the

1:10:32Himalayas and minor I'm take your time

1:10:35right you and lots of reading this truck

1:10:40I can do along the way with my monocle

1:10:41pack your model i will i will hold if I

1:10:44forgot my monocle that wouldn't be sad

1:10:46it was walking back

1:10:48that would be that was the first draft

1:10:50at twilight zone episode he loses his

1:10:52monocle

1:10:53yeah alright until next time unless the

1:10:57world ends in the meantime I suppose for

1:11:01the uncomfortable i'm jason still thanks

1:11:02for listening

1:11:06[Music]