The Incomparable

82: Apocalypse Book Club


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast number 82 [TS]

00:00:08   Morris went well [TS]

00:00:12   welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:14   podcast we are so glad to have you join [TS]

00:00:16   us because quite frankly we're all quite [TS]

00:00:18   depressed because we read lots of books [TS]

00:00:20   about the end of the world [TS]

00:00:23   i'm your host Jason snow this is a new [TS]

00:00:25   addition of our book club and our [TS]

00:00:27   primary book club selection today is a [TS]

00:00:30   short story collection by maureen McHugh [TS]

00:00:32   called after the apocalypse [TS]

00:00:35   it's a collection of looks like nine [TS]

00:00:37   maybe short stories that generally [TS]

00:00:39   involve horrible things happening to the [TS]

00:00:41   world and society 10 shorts and short [TS]

00:00:43   stories and nice even ten involving [TS]

00:00:46   miserable things happening too miserable [TS]

00:00:48   people and then to throw in other things [TS]

00:00:50   we'll talk about other kind of [TS]

00:00:51   apocalyptic end of the world kind of [TS]

00:00:53   literature as we go [TS]

00:00:55   joining me on this most up with people [TS]

00:00:58   of podcasts Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:02   hi there also scott McNulty hi Scott [TS]

00:01:05   hello is the world still there where you [TS]

00:01:07   are well I who knows [TS]

00:01:10   Philadelphia you can never tell that's [TS]

00:01:12   pretty much the end of the world anyway [TS]

00:01:13   and John siracusa hai jaan i find the [TS]

00:01:16   end of the world exhilarating maybe only [TS]

00:01:18   one huh [TS]

00:01:19   that's because you hate everything I [TS]

00:01:22   don't know maybe they could be it [TS]

00:01:24   ok it's possible that this one possible [TS]

00:01:28   scenario so I can't even remember who [TS]

00:01:30   recommended this book because I'm yeah [TS]

00:01:32   who recommended this is elisa should we [TS]

00:01:35   blame Lisa or is it Scott [TS]

00:01:37   whoo-hoo see it's already I society I [TS]

00:01:40   societies already deteriorated is [TS]

00:01:42   already crumbling yeah we're turning on [TS]

00:01:44   each other that's the message and all of [TS]

00:01:46   these you're all alone no one likes you [TS]

00:01:47   you're gonna die up it may have been me [TS]

00:01:53   alright because I second it with them [TS]

00:01:57   all right thinking train because i had [TS]

00:02:01   first heard of marine McHugh through an [TS]

00:02:04   anthology I got one of the micros McCall [TS]

00:02:06   edit anthologies called alternate [TS]

00:02:08   tyrants and the story the caps off that [TS]

00:02:10   apology is called Lincoln trained by [TS]

00:02:13   mari mchugh and without giving anything [TS]

00:02:16   away the story in the premise is that [TS]

00:02:18   Lincoln survived the assassination but [TS]

00:02:21   there are group of people were basically [TS]

00:02:22   acting as president in his stead [TS]

00:02:25   since obviously you don't just bounce [TS]

00:02:27   back from a bullet to the brain and one [TS]

00:02:29   of their bread ideas is to round up with [TS]

00:02:31   a call recalcitrant southerners and then [TS]

00:02:33   pack them on trains and send them out to [TS]

00:02:35   encampments in Indian country and the [TS]

00:02:39   story Lincoln train is about the [TS]

00:02:40   experience of one so-called recalcitrant [TS]

00:02:42   Southerners who can't understand why [TS]

00:02:43   this is happening to her and it goes [TS]

00:02:46   over the events of what happens when the [TS]

00:02:48   people who used to be your countrymen [TS]

00:02:49   and where your enemy combatants have the [TS]

00:02:52   upper hand in this in a bad situation [TS]

00:02:55   so anyway that has nothing to do with [TS]

00:02:56   this book you know if it's not that [TS]

00:02:59   sounds terrible it's kind of an upbeat [TS]

00:03:01   story for her [TS]

00:03:02   yeah i was going to say it sounds music [TS]

00:03:03   down she's a little bit of a little bit [TS]

00:03:06   of a downer the enumerated this is this [TS]

00:03:08   is after the apocalypse the short story [TS]

00:03:09   collection this is sort of the theme and [TS]

00:03:11   and I think that they were the stories [TS]

00:03:14   were chosen I assume that not every [TS]

00:03:16   story she writes about the end of the [TS]

00:03:18   world and not all these stories were [TS]

00:03:20   really about the end of the world but [TS]

00:03:22   they are all you know what's it let's [TS]

00:03:24   let's tackle we pick this election i [TS]

00:03:25   went back and read her first collection [TS]

00:03:27   which is mothers and other monsters and [TS]

00:03:30   what do people do with everybody laughs [TS]

00:03:34   nervously and and this is just I i think [TS]

00:03:37   one of the big themes in her work is we [TS]

00:03:39   are all selfish we are all alone we will [TS]

00:03:41   never have to understand your connection [TS]

00:03:43   with another human being and like as [TS]

00:03:45   long as you understand that going into [TS]

00:03:47   her stories there's a lot to appreciate [TS]

00:03:48   just don't ever read them when you're in [TS]

00:03:51   a bad mood or despairing over the state [TS]

00:03:52   of humanity into everybody have a good [TS]

00:03:55   time [TS]

00:03:56   yeah and i will say i record I i got [TS]

00:04:00   this book because I'm always fascinated [TS]

00:04:01   when a genre books kind of crossover [TS]

00:04:06   into mainstream and people are talking [TS]

00:04:08   like people who don't normally talk [TS]

00:04:10   about drama books are talking about it [TS]

00:04:11   and after the apocalypse was one of [TS]

00:04:13   these things that like you know the New [TS]

00:04:14   York Times Book Review people were [TS]

00:04:16   writing about it and so intrigued me [TS]

00:04:18   yeah and so there you go that's why [TS]

00:04:21   funny how that didn't happen with let's [TS]

00:04:23   say I don't know Harry Potter they found [TS]

00:04:26   crossing over into the mainstream should [TS]

00:04:28   repeal you internet service a warning to [TS]

00:04:30   park there [TS]

00:04:31   exactly thats that's the wrong kind of [TS]

00:04:33   Main Street now so in this book we have [TS]

00:04:36   we have we have a zombie apocalypse we [TS]

00:04:41   have anything that story by the way we [TS]

00:04:43   have a I'm gonna let me run down here we [TS]

00:04:45   have a zombie apocalypse we have an [TS]

00:04:46   unstated economic apocalypse we have a [TS]

00:04:49   dirty bomb apocalypse we have an [TS]

00:04:51   artificial intelligence not really an [TS]

00:04:53   apocalypse but an emergence we have a [TS]

00:04:56   medical experiment gone awry but not [TS]

00:04:59   really an apocalypse we have a chicken [TS]

00:05:00   nugget apocalypse we have an unstated [TS]

00:05:03   apocalypse and then there are some [TS]

00:05:05   people who fly right that's basically [TS]

00:05:07   what we've got here i'm not question was [TS]

00:05:09   a flying people have to do with anything [TS]

00:05:11   are they in an apocalypse there are [TS]

00:05:13   flying people but wonder if it comes [TS]

00:05:15   down to the breakdown of emotional [TS]

00:05:17   equilibrium and reality [TS]

00:05:19   yeah yeahs because i think the theme [TS]

00:05:22   that goes through all of these books is [TS]

00:05:23   these every every single one is about [TS]

00:05:26   people who have survived an event that [TS]

00:05:28   has completely altered their worldview [TS]

00:05:30   and and their frame of reference because [TS]

00:05:32   in the effect of centrifugal forces [TS]

00:05:35   which is about the prion disease that [TS]

00:05:38   that's passed on through the chicken [TS]

00:05:39   mcnuggets there she really doesn't spend [TS]

00:05:41   a whole lot of time on the most horrific [TS]

00:05:43   aspect of the story which is that [TS]

00:05:44   anybody who's ever eaten chicken [TS]

00:05:46   mcnugget get this disease and for me I [TS]

00:05:49   thought that the worst part of the story [TS]

00:05:50   was you have this poor fourteen-year-old [TS]

00:05:52   kid who is losing her mother and she has [TS]

00:05:54   nobody it and she cheat literally feels [TS]

00:05:57   like the best thing she can possibly do [TS]

00:05:58   in her life is set fire to her house [TS]

00:05:59   which he does [TS]

00:06:01   yeah yeah [TS]

00:06:03   right she's what she's she's got her her [TS]

00:06:06   to moms and they've split up and her one [TS]

00:06:11   mom who's not her biological mom she [TS]

00:06:14   calls from moms is is a is junkie with a [TS]

00:06:18   new boyfriend who's kind of shifty and [TS]

00:06:21   then her mom who stable has Alice as her [TS]

00:06:24   new partner and but her mom has the [TS]

00:06:27   chicken nugget disease and is dying and [TS]

00:06:30   and Alice a hoarder exact analysis a [TS]

00:06:32   hoarder yes yes yes don't forget that it [TS]

00:06:36   just to throw that in there there's also [TS]

00:06:38   supporting this chicken nugget [TS]

00:06:39   apocalypse and hoarding exactly well i [TS]

00:06:41   think because she wants every all she [TS]

00:06:43   wants the main character to be as [TS]

00:06:44   uncomfortable as possible so you can [TS]

00:06:46   even there's no like home is not your [TS]

00:06:48   sanctuary because they your mothers die [TS]

00:06:50   and be it's full of somebody's other [TS]

00:06:51   crap and you can't get comfortable on [TS]

00:06:53   Alice Alice's being very supportive of [TS]

00:06:56   her mother but Alice doesn't provide [TS]

00:06:58   because she's a hoarder I mean that the [TS]

00:07:00   home is no longer really a comfort for [TS]

00:07:02   her and then her other her other mom is [TS]

00:07:05   not really much of an option either it's [TS]

00:07:07   really kind of Miss report story on any [TS]

00:07:10   personal you've got that nice coupling [TS]

00:07:12   of personal misery with complete [TS]

00:07:14   societal misery because because there's [TS]

00:07:16   a fatalism right that wasn't what [TS]

00:07:18   everyone is eating chicken mcnugget on [TS]

00:07:20   the disease is going to hit that's it [TS]

00:07:22   five years to incubate her junkie mom's [TS]

00:07:24   boyfriend basically since we could you [TS]

00:07:26   know we could all be dead but there's no [TS]

00:07:27   way to know until we get symptoms and [TS]

00:07:30   there's no test and so every the whole [TS]

00:07:31   society is degrading mostly out of [TS]

00:07:33   fatalism right because you everybody [TS]

00:07:36   could be dying it's fun fishing and [TS]

00:07:40   irene and irene and Franny should get [TS]

00:07:42   together and perhaps participate in some [TS]

00:07:44   sort of competition in which they have [TS]

00:07:45   to kill each other and the woods [TS]

00:07:46   horrifying Hunger Games but ya know if [TS]

00:07:50   for example in that story the apocalypse [TS]

00:07:52   isn't about that the the prion disease [TS]

00:07:54   because that's just a fact of life like [TS]

00:07:56   radiation poisoning or anything else [TS]

00:07:59   that can kill you the apocalypse is this [TS]

00:08:01   woman's mother that this young girl's [TS]

00:08:02   mother dying and her literally having [TS]

00:08:05   nobody who's willing to step up and take [TS]

00:08:06   care of her and and I I thought that was [TS]

00:08:09   something that make you doesn't a lot of [TS]

00:08:11   the stories is the the so-called [TS]

00:08:13   apocalypse isn't necessarily the [TS]

00:08:14   precipitating event like the bird flu [TS]

00:08:16   especially economics what it is is the [TS]

00:08:18   event that causes somebody to say okay [TS]

00:08:20   life as I know it is over [TS]

00:08:22   here's what comes next you know [TS]

00:08:25   especially economics it's the [TS]

00:08:26   realization is the main characters [TS]

00:08:27   realization that she's effectively sold [TS]

00:08:29   herself into wage slavery four-by-four [TS]

00:08:32   for a biotech factory in the kingdom of [TS]

00:08:35   the blind that's when she realizes that [TS]

00:08:37   she's dealing with it with a sentient AI [TS]

00:08:41   and standing up for that a is going to [TS]

00:08:43   end her career as an IT troubleshooter [TS]

00:08:46   you know things like that that these [TS]

00:08:49   so-called catastrophic events are are [TS]

00:08:51   are basically background noise and most [TS]

00:08:53   of these stories they're all personal [TS]

00:08:55   apocalypses exactly yeah yeah which is [TS]

00:08:59   why I thought it was kind of weird that [TS]

00:09:00   you left off with the naturalist because [TS]

00:09:02   Starbase well okay so so here's what I'm [TS]

00:09:07   struggling to say is on a prison camp [TS]

00:09:08   some beer some can always yes what the [TS]

00:09:11   lead character effectively does he gets [TS]

00:09:12   curious enough about zombies to start [TS]

00:09:14   wailing his federal prisoners and using [TS]

00:09:16   them as lab rats in his experiments but [TS]

00:09:19   you read this and you kind of see the [TS]

00:09:21   spirit of 19th century naturalist in it [TS]

00:09:24   you know he's almost like an Audubon of [TS]

00:09:25   the zombie world and so was i was trying [TS]

00:09:28   to figure out where his apocalyptic [TS]

00:09:30   moment came from I guess basically he [TS]

00:09:32   doesn't have one [TS]

00:09:33   you know he's already living in it he is [TS]

00:09:35   he's the master of the the zombie you [TS]

00:09:38   know well federal prison right and then [TS]

00:09:41   they close them and that's his [TS]

00:09:42   apocalypse is leaving the zombie [TS]

00:09:45   reservation and going back to with [TS]

00:09:47   regular people and so now his call his [TS]

00:09:49   skills are meaningless because he had [TS]

00:09:52   kids he was building up quite a little [TS]

00:09:54   in mutual of omaha presents some [TS]

00:09:56   portfolio on the behavior of zombie the [TS]

00:09:59   main character in The Naturalist he has [TS]

00:10:00   that turn where he where he begins to [TS]

00:10:04   set out to study the zombies and there's [TS]

00:10:07   that moment where he realizes i'm going [TS]

00:10:10   to kill my fellow prisoners or more [TS]

00:10:13   disabled them and let the zombies kill [TS]

00:10:15   them in order to learn more about them [TS]

00:10:17   for science [TS]

00:10:18   yeah which is here which is that which [TS]

00:10:20   you know it is a prison he's a criminal [TS]

00:10:22   in a prison right so it's like bro i [TS]

00:10:25   guess you know that so that and it's [TS]

00:10:27   pretty evident that these guys are [TS]

00:10:28   killing each other into [TS]

00:10:29   my eyes anyway right you know they set [TS]

00:10:32   up in the beginning we have that whole [TS]

00:10:33   backdrop of you know that had that the [TS]

00:10:35   society has has degraded to the point [TS]

00:10:38   because of the zombie apocalypse that [TS]

00:10:39   they just said Cleveland put just zombie [TS]

00:10:42   prisoners in their throat Linda's ami [TS]

00:10:45   preserve and then for some reason they [TS]

00:10:47   started throwing in prisoners into the [TS]

00:10:49   preserve then she never makes that [TS]

00:10:51   reason clear and then there's like this [TS]

00:10:53   throw line at the end of the story about [TS]

00:10:55   how the Supreme Court has ruled [TS]

00:10:56   unconstitutional of presidents been [TS]

00:10:58   impeached and if i may be frank that was [TS]

00:11:00   actually the part I found the most [TS]

00:11:01   unrealistic because seriously like when [TS]

00:11:06   have you known anybody in Washington to [TS]

00:11:07   take any capability for any gross [TS]

00:11:09   violation of human rights by the federal [TS]

00:11:11   government [TS]

00:11:11   well after the zombie apocalypse Lisa's [TS]

00:11:14   yeah it's a new age of personal [TS]

00:11:16   responses Dombey lobbying Samaritans [TS]

00:11:19   there's going to be a zombie lobby where [TS]

00:11:21   they probably have like zombie junkets [TS]

00:11:22   we can go shoot zombies and dick cheney [TS]

00:11:24   sheets when the face i mean that's [TS]

00:11:25   that's where we're going with this [TS]

00:11:26   I did like in The Naturalist i like i [TS]

00:11:29   like the idea that that that seems [TS]

00:11:33   realistic to me i guess this is what you [TS]

00:11:34   were saying that society would would [TS]

00:11:36   react to something like a zombie [TS]

00:11:38   apocalypse in that way of saying well [TS]

00:11:40   you know we are going to just toss the [TS]

00:11:42   criminals in with the zombies because we [TS]

00:11:44   don't we don't care right everybody [TS]

00:11:46   might as well be zombies or zombie food [TS]

00:11:48   because they're there they're criminals [TS]

00:11:50   and and so we're just gonna throw them [TS]

00:11:52   away [TS]

00:11:53   it solves two problems at once i right [TS]

00:11:55   am within that then they're there is as [TS]

00:11:57   there are in our prisons today there is [TS]

00:11:58   this kind of culture that grows up [TS]

00:12:00   there's a guy who's kind of like the [TS]

00:12:01   leader but then this guy breaks away and [TS]

00:12:03   goes out into the city and begins his [TS]

00:12:06   studies and and begins capturing [TS]

00:12:08   prisoners and and using them in his in [TS]

00:12:10   his zombie studies that you think he was [TS]

00:12:12   actually interested in science I think [TS]

00:12:16   he was interested in surviving think he [TS]

00:12:18   was curious about what about what the [TS]

00:12:20   rules of the zombies were I guess I put [TS]

00:12:22   it that way because once he saw that [TS]

00:12:23   zombie in the tin foil lined dumpster [TS]

00:12:26   he was like what is the deal that was [TS]

00:12:28   the Dalton actually that was that was a [TS]

00:12:29   brilliant little moment right it's like [TS]

00:12:31   why does the zombie have a like a little [TS]

00:12:33   sun bowl that he lives he wants to be [TS]

00:12:36   warm and then he let me hear that one [TS]

00:12:38   more is like on the fire escape and he [TS]

00:12:40   realizes the zombies don't look up then [TS]

00:12:42   he's [TS]

00:12:42   curious right he's got some curiosity [TS]

00:12:44   I'm not sure yet that he was really [TS]

00:12:46   doing doing it for science but i do [TS]

00:12:49   think that he had some curiosity and [TS]

00:12:51   then had no problem basically killing [TS]

00:12:53   people because i was the key trait that [TS]

00:12:54   I saw him was that he was nuts because [TS]

00:12:57   he wasn't he wasn't really insane but at [TS]

00:13:00   and the reader is interested in the [TS]

00:13:02   zombies but he's a survivor and he was [TS]

00:13:04   like huh [TS]

00:13:04   like you know the same way you might be [TS]

00:13:06   like what kind of bird that is he's [TS]

00:13:08   thinking that while he sacrificing like [TS]

00:13:10   this guy that he's tricked into you know [TS]

00:13:12   killing people is pretty nonchalant [TS]

00:13:13   about well he's got this whole list of [TS]

00:13:15   questions about how they behave and so [TS]

00:13:18   part of it was I need to answer these [TS]

00:13:20   questions so I know what I what I can do [TS]

00:13:23   without getting myself killed by zombies [TS]

00:13:24   but by the end of it when he starts [TS]

00:13:26   seeing the zombies rhythmically bobbing [TS]

00:13:28   their heads after eating and he notices [TS]

00:13:30   that it's like a communication behavior [TS]

00:13:33   that's what I think something shifts in [TS]

00:13:35   his brain and that's why the story ends [TS]

00:13:37   with him knowing that he would have [TS]

00:13:38   liked to have set one last fire for the [TS]

00:13:40   zombies that's him i would like to find [TS]

00:13:42   like his scientific curiosity does gets [TS]

00:13:45   parked right at the point where it gets [TS]

00:13:47   picked up but he's gonna be a world's [TS]

00:13:49   foremost expert on zombies now right i [TS]

00:13:51   mean he'll be he'll be family may have [TS]

00:13:53   this personal apocalypse Scott but you [TS]

00:13:56   also get I got the sense that he he [TS]

00:13:57   might be kind of famous like a media [TS]

00:13:59   because he gets it gets interviewed and [TS]

00:14:01   yeah and-and-and the pictures of him as [TS]

00:14:04   he's removed from the from the from [TS]

00:14:06   cleveland on her are all over the news [TS]

00:14:09   and that you know the and that struck me [TS]

00:14:11   as kind of funny to that this guy who [TS]

00:14:13   just killed all of these people and [TS]

00:14:15   nobody knows or cares about it he's [TS]

00:14:17   going to end up being hailed as a [TS]

00:14:20   survivor and and maybe ultimately as [TS]

00:14:22   somebody who's an expert on on how the [TS]

00:14:25   zombies behave but I got the sense that [TS]

00:14:27   he did not care for his fellow man he [TS]

00:14:31   would kill them so easily and he was [TS]

00:14:34   really really interested in the zombies [TS]

00:14:36   so they took away from the one thing he [TS]

00:14:38   was interested in and I don't think it's [TS]

00:14:40   going to end well for him i don't know i [TS]

00:14:41   think i'll become like David [TS]

00:14:42   Attenborough of [TS]

00:14:44   I'll be like little leading at you know [TS]

00:14:46   expeditions into cleveland or maybe what [TS]

00:14:50   you'll do is he'll he'll redirect that [TS]

00:14:51   energy into killing people for for [TS]

00:14:53   another yeah because just going to kill [TS]

00:14:55   back different reasons yeah we'll find [TS]

00:14:57   another reason to do it he'll you know [TS]

00:14:59   he'll find help frame another [TS]

00:15:01   investigative question and go back to [TS]

00:15:03   killing people in some way so we should [TS]

00:15:05   talk a little bit about uh about useless [TS]

00:15:07   things which is another story in this [TS]

00:15:09   collection which is about a sculptor a [TS]

00:15:11   woman in the southwest to makes these [TS]

00:15:14   creepy uh living dolls they're like [TS]

00:15:19   newborn newborn and all replicas and she [TS]

00:15:22   makes makes them for people over the [TS]

00:15:25   internet and and there's basically a [TS]

00:15:27   gradual economic apocalypse that's [TS]

00:15:29   happening that comes with a lot of her [TS]

00:15:32   stories where where the gulf between the [TS]

00:15:34   haves and have-nots just gotten so big [TS]

00:15:36   that people are are falling off of the [TS]

00:15:37   edge into the Gulf yeah i'm clearly [TS]

00:15:39   that's her that's the world you in na [TS]

00:15:41   post Great Recession kind of environment [TS]

00:15:45   that would seem to be a fairly [TS]

00:15:47   straightforward reasonable extrapolation [TS]

00:15:50   to say that you know this is not going [TS]

00:15:52   to get better it's going to keep getting [TS]

00:15:53   worse people are going to get pulled [TS]

00:15:55   apart it's gonna be this gradual [TS]

00:15:57   apocalypse which I find actually in some [TS]

00:16:00   ways more realistic and and more [TS]

00:16:02   terrifying than the kind of sudden [TS]

00:16:03   apocalypse so it's like what if they're [TS]

00:16:05   suddenly we're zombies or what if there [TS]

00:16:06   was a horrible bomb that exploded in [TS]

00:16:09   irradiated Maryland yeah and and much [TS]

00:16:11   worse to have it just be things just [TS]

00:16:14   kept getting worse and and worse and [TS]

00:16:15   worse until everybody you know lost [TS]

00:16:18   their jobs and and waiting to make your [TS]

00:16:20   writing a college yeah you need you know [TS]

00:16:22   you're filled with obsolete during your [TS]

00:16:23   lifetime something like that which is [TS]

00:16:25   horrifying but I this is it was kind of [TS]

00:16:28   a i found a kind of a bizarre story and [TS]

00:16:30   i liked at something that happens in [TS]

00:16:33   that story and also in a couple of the [TS]

00:16:36   others it definitely one of her one of [TS]

00:16:39   the accused of motifs here is the [TS]

00:16:42   American attitude that poor hungry [TS]

00:16:44   people are from somewhere else [TS]

00:16:47   yes and there's a there's an actual line [TS]

00:16:49   in one of these stories I'm trying to [TS]

00:16:52   remember which one might be after the [TS]

00:16:54   apocalypse where where that somebody [TS]

00:16:57   basically said [TS]

00:16:57   as you know where Americans you know or [TS]

00:16:59   not we're not hungry homeless refugees [TS]

00:17:02   don't use the word refugee but it's a [TS]

00:17:05   lot yeah that's the last time yeah [TS]

00:17:06   what's up with the convoy and she's [TS]

00:17:08   horrified by yeah and in in in useless [TS]

00:17:11   things it's theirs [TS]

00:17:12   she makes a similar observation about [TS]

00:17:15   the the migrants who are coming by and [TS]

00:17:17   doing some you know doing some work in [TS]

00:17:20   her garden before they move along that [TS]

00:17:22   there's definitely that feeling that you [TS]

00:17:25   know just because you've gotten [TS]

00:17:27   comfortable being in a wealthy country [TS]

00:17:29   doesn't make you any different as a [TS]

00:17:31   person and any more subject to you know [TS]

00:17:35   terrible economic conditions then [TS]

00:17:37   somebody who's in Africa or in you know [TS]

00:17:40   in anywhere any other poor part of the [TS]

00:17:43   world must plus then she turns to making [TS]

00:17:46   sex toys return to make sex toys because [TS]

00:17:51   Justin their property taxes gonna be [TS]

00:17:52   exactly going to make somebody creepy [TS]

00:17:54   creepy [TS]

00:17:56   so what there's a weird part of that [TS]

00:17:59   story where it turns out that that she's [TS]

00:18:02   making his living dolls for this couple [TS]

00:18:04   and it turns out that it's just the guy [TS]

00:18:05   who's using them and he's using numbers [TS]

00:18:07   like a pickup and pick-up line why I'm [TS]

00:18:10   grieving my dead child and presumably [TS]

00:18:12   that that gets him a pity role and and [TS]

00:18:15   again and on it goes from there it's [TS]

00:18:18   just so so strange whole that whole [TS]

00:18:20   story so strange it is a strange story [TS]

00:18:23   well I i think what it also points out [TS]

00:18:25   is is artist kind of a commodity of a [TS]

00:18:28   stable society where where people feel [TS]

00:18:30   comfortable spending money because no [TS]

00:18:33   doubt they got in and one of the things [TS]

00:18:35   is the guy who ordered the dolls clearly [TS]

00:18:36   doesn't appreciate the art in the effort [TS]

00:18:38   that goes into him and as an artist you [TS]

00:18:41   can't make a living when the world was [TS]

00:18:42   crumbling apart you know the artist one [TS]

00:18:45   of the first casualties of of any [TS]

00:18:46   apocalypse [TS]

00:18:47   so you doing thing turned to other [TS]

00:18:50   methods right that's got it was just yep [TS]

00:18:56   that's the risk you don't really care [TS]

00:18:57   for that story let's just gotta tell [TS]

00:18:59   it's a scary moment to where she goes [TS]

00:19:00   over to to get her dog girl your dog's [TS]

00:19:04   been found you a relatively nice guy and [TS]

00:19:05   his like son and his friends are [TS]

00:19:08   man out of the desert riding their their [TS]

00:19:11   bikes or whatever it is they're there [TS]

00:19:12   for this their motorbikes and he is [TS]

00:19:15   underdone mom and he basically says just [TS]

00:19:17   don't even look at them don't talk to [TS]

00:19:18   them just get in your truck and drive [TS]

00:19:19   away and you get the sense that although [TS]

00:19:21   these older people are kind of trying to [TS]

00:19:23   hold with having some sort of society [TS]

00:19:25   that everybody below a certain age [TS]

00:19:28   pretty much is just completely lawless [TS]

00:19:29   and scary and and and dangerous and [TS]

00:19:31   horrible [TS]

00:19:32   oh yeah there's a there's a lot of that [TS]

00:19:34   story actually I'm where it's the [TS]

00:19:36   parents of the girl who's pregnant my [TS]

00:19:39   camera that Cheryl's your name Cynthia [TS]

00:19:41   but they mention that the inside the [TS]

00:19:44   house it was like a flashback to 20 [TS]

00:19:46   years ago because they have this working [TS]

00:19:47   flat screen TV and it's air-conditioned [TS]

00:19:49   the surfaces are all cleaning the [TS]

00:19:50   refrigerator is packed and there's a [TS]

00:19:52   line in there about how these people [TS]

00:19:56   still regarded thoughtful liberalism is [TS]

00:19:58   their birthright and the narrator had [TS]

00:20:01   two until she realized it was her [TS]

00:20:03   generations burden to be born in [TS]

00:20:04   interesting times and it was just it was [TS]

00:20:08   just a really nice really scraping [TS]

00:20:10   throwaway Sherry's name of the woman i'm [TS]

00:20:12   looking it up now [TS]

00:20:13   oh i thought this life of thought that [TS]

00:20:17   here's the one I thought this life of [TS]

00:20:18   thoughtful liberalism was my birthright [TS]

00:20:20   before I understood my generation was to [TS]

00:20:22   be born in interesting times and it [TS]

00:20:24   points out that like you said you know [TS]

00:20:26   for older it if it could be seen almost [TS]

00:20:28   as a veiled indictment of say the baby [TS]

00:20:30   boomers who are you know certainly [TS]

00:20:33   pretty comfortable with their paid for [TS]

00:20:34   houses and the jobs they refuse to [TS]

00:20:36   retire from well in younger generations [TS]

00:20:39   you've got crazy high rates of [TS]

00:20:40   unemployment and people are questioning [TS]

00:20:43   the need to build families in [TS]

00:20:46   traditional two-parent family structures [TS]

00:20:47   and and things like that you know it's [TS]

00:20:49   it's just this huge social gulf between [TS]

00:20:51   older generations and younger [TS]

00:20:53   generations thanks the actions of one [TS]

00:20:54   generation and not necessarily the [TS]

00:20:56   younger one now so uh John what did you [TS]

00:21:00   think of the the kingdom of the blind [TS]

00:21:03   yarra you're a technology guy and a [TS]

00:21:05   computer and a programmer that that that [TS]

00:21:07   was I thought interesting in that it was [TS]

00:21:09   trying to portray not not so much the [TS]

00:21:13   end of the world but at an emergence of [TS]

00:21:17   computer intelligence which I thought [TS]

00:21:19   was an interesting attempt to say it's [TS]

00:21:20   not going to be like [TS]

00:21:22   you know it if there's an artificial [TS]

00:21:24   intelligence that kind of emerges it's [TS]

00:21:25   not going to be like what you would [TS]

00:21:27   think from a movie or a TV show it's [TS]

00:21:30   going to be weird and hard to understand [TS]

00:21:32   the people aren't going to really get it [TS]

00:21:33   did that did that work for you or did it [TS]

00:21:36   not work for you it the closer she got [TS]

00:21:38   to trying to explain what was actually [TS]

00:21:41   going on the worst things got so she [TS]

00:21:43   should not have tried to talk about [TS]

00:21:45   summer teenies or the actual work that [TS]

00:21:48   the programmers were doing anything like [TS]

00:21:49   that the actual activities of the Dai in [TS]

00:21:52   terms of rolling the lights and taking [TS]

00:21:54   data input like in broad strokes that's [TS]

00:21:57   fine everything works and is an [TS]

00:21:58   interesting idea [TS]

00:21:59   yeah i thought that was cool it's like [TS]

00:22:00   what's what the hell's going on and it's [TS]

00:22:02   only later they have get that she should [TS]

00:22:04   have her got a consultant in there [TS]

00:22:05   because there are systems where there [TS]

00:22:07   are complicated enough that and have so [TS]

00:22:10   many different inputs that is difficult [TS]

00:22:11   to for someone to wrap their head around [TS]

00:22:12   but the way she described them is not [TS]

00:22:15   really doesn't have any basis in [TS]

00:22:16   anything I you know it's like she got [TS]

00:22:18   some like a cobol programmer from 1960 [TS]

00:22:20   to talk to our and then like one time [TS]

00:22:23   she wrote 10 print hello 22 yeah I was [TS]

00:22:27   gonna say syntax error in 30 and then [TS]

00:22:28   the lights went out in the basic program [TS]

00:22:31   is alive but that's just because i'm [TS]

00:22:34   going to a computer nerd i bet other [TS]

00:22:36   other people probably thought it was too [TS]

00:22:37   esoteric so that I think there was the [TS]

00:22:39   seed of a good short story in there [TS]

00:22:42   I'm just glad that in that story the [TS]

00:22:43   female was not sexually menaced which is [TS]

00:22:46   a rarity for this short story collection [TS]

00:22:48   and I suppose there is manager there is [TS]

00:22:52   menacing route before we leave this [TS]

00:22:54   behind i wanted to touch on the last [TS]

00:22:57   story before we as a transition but [TS]

00:23:00   before we do that it is there something [TS]

00:23:03   anything left that you observations [TS]

00:23:06   about this in general about this [TS]

00:23:07   collection that that that you guys would [TS]

00:23:10   want to make I I it was fat it was short [TS]

00:23:13   i read it very fast it was short and [TS]

00:23:18   some of the stories i thought oh that [TS]

00:23:19   was really interesting because i like [TS]

00:23:20   sci-fi short stories and others i was [TS]

00:23:22   like huh you know so it was it what [TS]

00:23:25   about the flying bag for me no way [TS]

00:23:27   people fly in my room I live alone [TS]

00:23:30   they feel away because they needed to [TS]

00:23:32   get on a boat so they were slightly [TS]

00:23:34   closer to France friends I like that [TS]

00:23:38   story that was the 1i connected with the [TS]

00:23:40   least I liked it so much because it [TS]

00:23:42   makes absolutely no sense it's okay it [TS]

00:23:44   does make some kind of sense depending [TS]

00:23:46   on what you assume the premises it and [TS]

00:23:49   so it explain please [TS]

00:23:51   well I don't know what do you have what [TS]

00:23:54   is you worry each of your takes on on [TS]

00:23:55   that story is there something that some [TS]

00:23:57   sort of backstory that you can come up [TS]

00:23:58   with it makes the story start to make [TS]

00:24:00   some kind of sense [TS]

00:24:01   no nothing it's almost like a mental [TS]

00:24:05   contagion that people got some sort of [TS]

00:24:08   mimetic virus is the only thing i can [TS]

00:24:10   think of it was it was like in 24-hour [TS]

00:24:12   flu only with a dumb idea I i figured [TS]

00:24:14   it's like they're like super people and [TS]

00:24:16   the super people are going to go to [TS]

00:24:17   France and we had come in contact with [TS]

00:24:19   the super people you get kind of like [TS]

00:24:21   for hot up into the the wanting to go to [TS]

00:24:24   France and being with the super people [TS]

00:24:25   like they rub off on you yeah you would [TS]

00:24:27   go to superheroes like that that [TS]

00:24:29   probably place you just give some yeah I [TS]

00:24:31   know soon as you see flying could be [TS]

00:24:33   great to I went to of course the very [TS]

00:24:35   ending of the thing where he's talking [TS]

00:24:36   about the seeing somebody someone [TS]

00:24:40   running in front of an SUV or something [TS]

00:24:41   and and like time sort of stops and the [TS]

00:24:44   running person had one foot off the [TS]

00:24:46   ground but his left foot wiggle back and [TS]

00:24:48   forth on his ankle [TS]

00:24:49   it's like you they're all in a [TS]

00:24:51   simulation in the simulation is pause [TS]

00:24:53   but it's glitching back and forth from [TS]

00:24:55   you know frame 2720 27-28 that type of [TS]

00:24:58   things like to I saw it all as a virtual [TS]

00:25:01   reality thing where they're all in a [TS]

00:25:03   simulation and the simulation is [TS]

00:25:05   breaking down and everyone going to [TS]

00:25:08   France it means the title it's like [TS]

00:25:10   something you from prison for something [TS]

00:25:11   while I don't need to go to France and [TS]

00:25:13   some some sort of virtual reality based [TS]

00:25:15   reasoning that makes sense within the [TS]

00:25:16   game world but everything's all messed [TS]

00:25:17   up and since they're this is how would [TS]

00:25:20   be like if you thought the game world [TS]

00:25:21   was the real world and it was getting [TS]

00:25:23   all confused you know sooner or later we [TS]

00:25:25   all go to France [TS]

00:25:26   yeah and the imagery at the end people [TS]

00:25:27   flying works in virtual world in the [TS]

00:25:29   imagery the end it was too i was it was [TS]

00:25:31   strangely described i think it was [TS]

00:25:32   trying to get to that you know [TS]

00:25:34   pause jumping back and forth between [TS]

00:25:36   frames kind of glitch so [TS]

00:25:38   but I mean I I thought that was the most [TS]

00:25:40   interesting of the stories also yes the [TS]

00:25:43   it holds together the least but at least [TS]

00:25:45   let me at least let me fill in something [TS]

00:25:47   and decide what I think nice right [TS]

00:25:49   so overall overall what's what's what's [TS]

00:25:55   your take on this collection Scott what [TS]

00:25:57   do you think well I I'm just a small by [TS]

00:26:00   the way it is my fault and I'm okay with [TS]

00:26:03   that because I enjoyed it i thought they [TS]

00:26:04   were they were very interesting stories [TS]

00:26:06   the last story of course incredibly [TS]

00:26:09   depressing but overall it was worth you [TS]

00:26:14   know that was that was not good but in a [TS]

00:26:16   good way it was and what is it was a [TS]

00:26:18   bittersweet but not really speed also [TS]

00:26:21   it's just been a yeah I was gonna say [TS]

00:26:22   where the sweet medic [TS]

00:26:24   I don't like kids so you know I just [TS]

00:26:29   but overall I enjoyed it i thought as [TS]

00:26:32   well written [TS]

00:26:33   interesting i like the fact that the [TS]

00:26:36   apocalypse over the apocalypses weren't [TS]

00:26:40   really the focus of the stories they [TS]

00:26:42   were just kind of a set into motion [TS]

00:26:43   other things so it wasn't like you oh [TS]

00:26:45   look there's zombies [TS]

00:26:47   let's run away but that you know she was [TS]

00:26:50   thinking about what would happen in and [TS]

00:26:52   kind of make them more personal look [TS]

00:26:54   there's zombies let's kill other people [TS]

00:26:56   and use them to test the zombies and you [TS]

00:26:58   know about the zombies exactly but there [TS]

00:27:01   are only want one zombie story which was [TS]

00:27:03   good right [TS]

00:27:04   that is a relief Lisa what about you [TS]

00:27:06   what do you think of the collection [TS]

00:27:09   well depressing as hell but yeah you [TS]

00:27:12   know when I got my first take on it [TS]

00:27:15   I couldn't stop thinking about the [TS]

00:27:18   stories and what I liked about them was [TS]

00:27:22   how they were really well-drawn [TS]

00:27:23   character studies because many of these [TS]

00:27:25   people are people you would want to talk [TS]

00:27:27   to or know or be friends with but you do [TS]

00:27:30   find themselves kind of understanding [TS]

00:27:32   them and even feeling a little bit [TS]

00:27:33   sympathetic for them and I think that's [TS]

00:27:35   the sign of a good writer where she can [TS]

00:27:37   make someone comprehensible and [TS]

00:27:39   relatable to you even if there's nothing [TS]

00:27:41   in your experiences that that you have [TS]

00:27:43   in common and i think that one of the [TS]

00:27:46   accused strength is she writes about [TS]

00:27:49   working-class people and folks who are [TS]

00:27:51   on the economic edge in a way that a lot [TS]

00:27:54   of sci-fi authors don't do it for [TS]

00:27:58   example if you read John barley he [TS]

00:28:01   touches on a similar theme but his [TS]

00:28:03   people are almost always insane [TS]

00:28:04   resourceful and they happen to be oh i [TS]

00:28:06   don't know like Motel clerks who are [TS]

00:28:07   also rocket scientist to spare time and [TS]

00:28:09   they have an uncle who's a survivalist [TS]

00:28:11   so they'll be fine no matter what or [TS]

00:28:14   they'll be William Gibson where there's [TS]

00:28:15   some eccentric Japanese billionaire who [TS]

00:28:17   hands of an AI box and next thing you [TS]

00:28:19   know they're in a world of gilded [TS]

00:28:20   privilege and this is the exact opposite [TS]

00:28:23   of that and the only other author i can [TS]

00:28:25   think of who does something similar is [TS]

00:28:27   Nancy crest who also talks about what [TS]

00:28:30   it's like to be an extra on the world [TS]

00:28:33   stage of history when these bright and [TS]

00:28:35   shiny privileged people are doing things [TS]

00:28:37   that does that do in the world as we [TS]

00:28:38   know it so I I think it's a really [TS]

00:28:40   valuable contribution and I'm going to [TS]

00:28:42   continue seeking out her work but i'm [TS]

00:28:44   going to have to make sure i'm in a [TS]

00:28:45   really good mental place before I don't [TS]

00:28:47   because you will be afterwards [TS]

00:28:50   John what do you thank you you are you [TS]

00:28:53   don't read a lot of stuff because you're [TS]

00:28:55   not a high-volume reader this was short [TS]

00:28:57   yeah i like the fact that was short and [TS]

00:28:59   I do read a lot of short story [TS]

00:29:00   collections and i usually have queued up [TS]

00:29:02   those a year's best fantasy and cyclic [TS]

00:29:05   ends for many years past me that you [TS]

00:29:07   know like I haven't read them all so I [TS]

00:29:08   read i'll read them from like 2001 if I [TS]

00:29:10   have no just go back and those [TS]

00:29:12   collections have kind of spoiled me for [TS]

00:29:14   collections like this because they those [TS]

00:29:15   are by different authors so if you don't [TS]

00:29:17   like one author you want a different [TS]

00:29:19   taste you know the next door is going to [TS]

00:29:22   be different and be i think the take to [TS]

00:29:25   get into those collections that usually [TS]

00:29:27   they want you to have either a really [TS]

00:29:31   interesting premise especially for the [TS]

00:29:33   the syfy ones or a really tight little [TS]

00:29:36   narrative and these stories don't really [TS]

00:29:39   have the premises are not that [TS]

00:29:40   interesting like the one of these movie [TS]

00:29:42   stand alone on their premises and the [TS]

00:29:43   narratives are definitely not beginning [TS]

00:29:45   middle and tight little short stories a [TS]

00:29:48   business theme running through all of [TS]

00:29:50   them and I kind of like a a a picture [TS]

00:29:52   that she wants to paint but there's just [TS]

00:29:55   this is the sameness after a while after [TS]

00:29:57   eight or nine stories are I think you [TS]

00:29:59   could have gotten away with like three [TS]

00:30:01   of these and then had [TS]

00:30:02   another author do the other you know six [TS]

00:30:04   or seven how many even are there and [TS]

00:30:06   this thing that the ss10 especially [TS]

00:30:08   economics is actually in the year's best [TS]

00:30:10   science fiction collection I'd read it [TS]

00:30:11   before and that one actually seems to be [TS]

00:30:14   some sort of structurally the most like [TS]

00:30:16   those kinds of stories and that it's [TS]

00:30:18   tighter it's got the the bird flu [TS]

00:30:20   apocalypse but it's also about you know [TS]

00:30:22   Chinese labor conditions and and they've [TS]

00:30:24   got the you know she gets a fab phone [TS]

00:30:27   and so it's definitely in the in the [TS]

00:30:29   future but you know and that they meet [TS]

00:30:31   the guy who who have wants to steal [TS]

00:30:34   their their bio electronic box and all [TS]

00:30:37   that that seems like an interesting kind [TS]

00:30:39   of slice of future extrapolation that's [TS]

00:30:41   much more like the kind of stories that [TS]

00:30:42   I expect to see in those collections [TS]

00:30:44   than some of these other pieces which [TS]

00:30:46   are much more kind of a bleak and odd [TS]

00:30:49   but I'm looking for out of Adam short [TS]

00:30:52   story collection i want more likeable [TS]

00:30:54   characters or more interesting premises [TS]

00:30:56   or more variety so this kind of was like [TS]

00:30:59   black to me more of the same yeah [TS]

00:31:03   everybody dies so so yeah I mean [TS]

00:31:06   thatthat's I I sort of feel that way to [TS]

00:31:08   it is that it's tough being used to [TS]

00:31:10   having a kind of very short story diet [TS]

00:31:12   to have these be all variations on a [TS]

00:31:15   theme and I can definitely see their [TS]

00:31:17   various variations on a theme but ya [TS]

00:31:20   didn't really do it for me I'm glad I'm [TS]

00:31:22   glad it was short it certainly they were [TS]

00:31:25   I didn't feel like I was struggling to [TS]

00:31:27   read them but it didn't really it didn't [TS]

00:31:30   really throw me what I what I actually [TS]

00:31:32   liked you know I i will remember the [TS]

00:31:34   naturalist because it is kind of an [TS]

00:31:36   interesting idea of these the zombie [TS]

00:31:38   prison that's collective a nice [TS]

00:31:40   different kind of take on zombies that [TS]

00:31:42   will just throw the president the [TS]

00:31:44   zombies and see what happens and and [TS]

00:31:47   after the apocalypse the reason I the [TS]

00:31:49   last story which appears only I believe [TS]

00:31:52   in this collection and as in the [TS]

00:31:54   collections name for it [TS]

00:31:55   the reason I wanted to use that as a [TS]

00:31:57   segue is that it it seemed to me to [TS]

00:32:00   almost be a a conscious reference to the [TS]

00:32:06   road by cormac mccarthy in that that [TS]

00:32:09   does everything exactly the opposite [TS]

00:32:11   yeah it's an inversion right so it's but [TS]

00:32:13   it's it's it's a mother and daughter [TS]

00:32:14   instead [TS]

00:32:15   father and son they're still apocalypse [TS]

00:32:18   although it's not as as utterly [TS]

00:32:20   apocalyptic as as in the McCarthy novel [TS]

00:32:23   but I one of the things that I love I [TS]

00:32:27   mean them so the road dark i have all of [TS]

00:32:30   you read the road have no Scott because [TS]

00:32:35   I I i had no rights so I fell and John [TS]

00:32:40   has the why I'm okay with being spoiled [TS]

00:32:43   on without so feel free [TS]

00:32:44   well let me as a road and into the world [TS]

00:32:47   it's bleak and it's bleak yes indeed [TS]

00:32:49   deep dark and i love it i is one of the [TS]

00:32:52   best books I've ever read [TS]

00:32:53   I I it is one of my favorites it is [TS]

00:32:55   super dark but I'm okay with that [TS]

00:32:57   I I feel like I actually have a problem [TS]

00:32:59   with a lot of these apocalypse stories [TS]

00:33:01   because I feel like they don't really [TS]

00:33:03   that their their their fantasies that [TS]

00:33:05   they imagine a level of the society [TS]

00:33:09   holding itself together and people being [TS]

00:33:11   decent that I don't believe would [TS]

00:33:13   actually be the case I actually believed [TS]

00:33:15   it would be far more horrific than most [TS]

00:33:17   of these especially in movies and TV [TS]

00:33:18   shows you see like The Walking Dead is a [TS]

00:33:21   good example is like The Walking Dead is [TS]

00:33:24   too gentle [TS]

00:33:25   I think it's too easy it would be much [TS]

00:33:27   more brutal and horrible and they [TS]

00:33:29   probably don't want to show that so the [TS]

00:33:30   road [TS]

00:33:31   father and son just like mother and [TS]

00:33:32   daughter in that last story the big [TS]

00:33:34   difference is it the road [TS]

00:33:36   despite all of its bleakness it's about [TS]

00:33:39   it's about a parent's love for their [TS]

00:33:40   child and unconditional love and wanted [TS]

00:33:43   to protect their child that's what it's [TS]

00:33:45   about it it I that's why I find it so [TS]

00:33:47   moving even with everything else taken [TS]

00:33:50   out of the world it's about that after [TS]

00:33:53   the apocalypse the story is inverted not [TS]

00:33:55   only because its mother and daughter but [TS]

00:33:56   because it's the mother just doesn't [TS]

00:33:59   really she's annoyed by her daughter and [TS]

00:34:01   doesn't really care and abandons her [TS]

00:34:03   that's just what I didn't even bleaker [TS]

00:34:06   view then the road though because you're [TS]

00:34:08   saying yeah this is brewed were also [TS]

00:34:10   selfish that yeah well this was this was [TS]

00:34:12   a selfish woman you could tell before [TS]

00:34:13   the apocalypse she was not a great you [TS]

00:34:15   know like I boarded the first one the [TS]

00:34:17   second one you know it's stubborn had it [TS]

00:34:20   but then you tips [TS]

00:34:21   this is the show you all yeah this was a [TS]

00:34:23   bad mother before the apocalypse and [TS]

00:34:25   after what a surprise she continues to [TS]

00:34:27   be a bad [TS]

00:34:28   listen to me i was amazing she was is at [TS]

00:34:30   stuck with her daughter for as long as [TS]

00:34:31   she did but when we need her she's [TS]

00:34:34   complaining about her daughter but [TS]

00:34:35   you're right so in that way it is bleep [TS]

00:34:37   horrible justification she makes where [TS]

00:34:39   she's like I ran away from home for the [TS]

00:34:40   first time when I was just yeah [TS]

00:34:41   overnight was my mind and I'm thinking [TS]

00:34:43   yeah I'm gonna get you know you read [TS]

00:34:45   away the stable a country where you [TS]

00:34:47   didn't have refugee camps and you're [TS]

00:34:49   abandoning this child to a stranger you [TS]

00:34:53   know it was right where some in the road [TS]

00:34:55   you know there is nothing there is [TS]

00:34:57   nothing left and the only thing there is [TS]

00:34:59   that the father is taking care of of the [TS]

00:35:02   son of his child no it's completely yes [TS]

00:35:05   everything else is broken down [TS]

00:35:07   completely like everything like [TS]

00:35:09   photosynthesis has broken nothing and [TS]

00:35:12   everything is dangerous and everybody's [TS]

00:35:14   cold and miserable and it's just yeah [TS]

00:35:16   yeah very different than this where it's [TS]

00:35:19   like oh there might be a scary person [TS]

00:35:20   house ok let's run over fine now [TS]

00:35:23   yeah right i want to bring up the road [TS]

00:35:25   because i think that that when i was [TS]

00:35:26   reading the this collection that was the [TS]

00:35:28   the book that came back to me is I think [TS]

00:35:31   a a great exploration of that end of the [TS]

00:35:35   world feeling and that if I had to pick [TS]

00:35:38   a favorite on this topic that would [TS]

00:35:41   certainly be it not only like I said not [TS]

00:35:44   only because yes i am i find it really [TS]

00:35:46   touching that in the midst of all this [TS]

00:35:48   darkness it really is about a father a [TS]

00:35:51   loving his son and Cormac McCarthy [TS]

00:35:54   dedicated the book to his son but that [TS]

00:35:58   it also i thought was a real a really [TS]

00:36:01   accurate [TS]

00:36:03   I don't know I to me seemed believable [TS]

00:36:04   poor trail of just how awful and [TS]

00:36:09   miserable people would be put in a [TS]

00:36:11   circumstance like that its unflinching [TS]

00:36:13   and saying people with your horrible [TS]

00:36:15   things they will kill each other they [TS]

00:36:17   will each other they will farm each [TS]

00:36:20   other they will do they will do anything [TS]

00:36:22   to survive and you know don't pretend [TS]

00:36:25   that that it wouldn't come to that if it [TS]

00:36:27   had to which is really depressing but i [TS]

00:36:29   think it's true it's also much better [TS]

00:36:32   writer I think I mean but what he does [TS]

00:36:34   in that book of the way his weird style [TS]

00:36:35   that he has and how its describing [TS]

00:36:37   situation no commas and very few and no [TS]

00:36:40   quotes [TS]

00:36:41   one explanation marks reading other [TS]

00:36:42   stories that are steps that are similar [TS]

00:36:44   premise where people are like on the [TS]

00:36:46   road like those them in that after the [TS]

00:36:48   apocalypse they're traveling why they [TS]

00:36:50   traveling well what else you gonna do [TS]

00:36:51   you gotta go somewhere because you think [TS]

00:36:52   so everything's better than anywhere [TS]

00:36:53   else [TS]

00:36:54   everything's better in Canada yeah and [TS]

00:36:55   and you know they're just describing [TS]

00:36:58   everything that goes on and the the [TS]

00:37:00   discussions between a mother and a child [TS]

00:37:01   crying McCarthy makes it look so easy [TS]

00:37:03   where he is going to use quotation marks [TS]

00:37:05   and it's it's it's amazing the stuff [TS]

00:37:08   that he gets across in that book in such [TS]

00:37:11   a small amount of time that other [TS]

00:37:12   authors ramble on and on trying to [TS]

00:37:14   express what he expresses in like the [TS]

00:37:16   exchange of seven unquoted things that [TS]

00:37:18   we think might be said but possibly also [TS]

00:37:20   thought that was a real you know he's a [TS]

00:37:22   great writer so that's that's a level [TS]

00:37:24   above when I like one great writers take [TS]

00:37:27   on a topic that is nerdy you know like [TS]

00:37:29   the end of the world or something [TS]

00:37:30   because you get the best of both worlds [TS]

00:37:32   yeah yeah Scott you read the road where [TS]

00:37:36   you'd thoroughly depressed her I i read [TS]

00:37:39   the road immediately after i read it [TS]

00:37:41   after the apocalypse [TS]

00:37:42   oh my was Oh further depressed arm [TS]

00:37:46   I'm glad you're still with us come out [TS]

00:37:48   now it's all gonna be over [TS]

00:37:52   no I mean you know it's hard to prepare [TS]

00:37:55   anything to Cormac McCarthy oh because [TS]

00:37:58   it's jon said he's such a brilliant [TS]

00:37:59   writer that I think any book about the [TS]

00:38:02   apocalypse compared to the road will [TS]

00:38:04   suffer greatly because he's a genius and [TS]

00:38:07   very few people are a Maureen with you [TS]

00:38:10   is a fine writer but she is not as good [TS]

00:38:13   a writer as he is so he takes something [TS]

00:38:15   that is a fairly cliché kind of premise [TS]

00:38:19   right if you make something that is [TS]

00:38:20   beautiful and special and amazing where [TS]

00:38:24   she takes some interesting premises and [TS]

00:38:27   make some interesting stories there's [TS]

00:38:29   nothing wrong with that but it's just a [TS]

00:38:30   whole different level of writing is [TS]

00:38:32   going on right so you like the roads i [TS]

00:38:35   didn't realize that was a new read for [TS]

00:38:36   yourself it was because I i bought it [TS]

00:38:39   many years ago and I read like 20 pages [TS]

00:38:40   of it and I said this is way too [TS]

00:38:42   depressing and I picked it up again when [TS]

00:38:45   after i read after the apocalypse and I [TS]

00:38:47   thought well maybe it gets better at the [TS]

00:38:49   and uh i don't know i don't want to [TS]

00:38:53   spoil the ending was earlier for Lisa [TS]

00:38:54   but i would have if she wasn't I would [TS]

00:38:57   have discussed but your ball thought of [TS]

00:38:58   the ending and what was actually I no [TS]

00:39:00   please I'm i have no plans to read it [TS]

00:39:02   alright because this is this is horrible [TS]

00:39:05   because this is one of the side effects [TS]

00:39:07   of parenthood that no one warned me [TS]

00:39:08   about which is that after you have your [TS]

00:39:10   after I had my child I really can't [TS]

00:39:12   handle child in parallel stories I I [TS]

00:39:14   can't handle stories where children lose [TS]

00:39:16   their parents or parents lose their kids [TS]

00:39:18   it's just this guy i read i read the [TS]

00:39:20   road after i had kids and I i felt i [TS]

00:39:22   understood and appreciated more because [TS]

00:39:24   it spoke I i agree there's a lot of [TS]

00:39:27   cheap child in peril stuff that I I [TS]

00:39:29   can't take anymore and actually I hate [TS]

00:39:31   it now because I I know how cheap it is [TS]

00:39:33   and and I didn't feel that way with the [TS]

00:39:35   road the road to me spoke of a feeling i [TS]

00:39:40   would get this feeling just walking [TS]

00:39:41   around with my kids and their be [TS]

00:39:42   somebody coming the other way and we'd [TS]

00:39:44   be like on an overpass over freeway and [TS]

00:39:46   I think if this person tries to do [TS]

00:39:47   something to me I will kill them because [TS]

00:39:49   i have my children right [TS]

00:39:51   I am so yeah I I just I've had that [TS]

00:39:53   moment a few times where it's like I [TS]

00:39:55   will do anything to protect my children [TS]

00:39:56   and the road it in a better way I think [TS]

00:40:00   that any other piece of art I've ever [TS]

00:40:02   seen it speaks to that feeling that that [TS]

00:40:05   just final visceral feeling that I will [TS]

00:40:07   do anything I can for my children now at [TS]

00:40:11   the end of the road [TS]

00:40:13   I know the father of the father finally [TS]

00:40:17   succumbs to whatever terrible elements [TS]

00:40:19   and he gets hurt in the side he gets [TS]

00:40:21   shot or pierced by and he was going to [TS]

00:40:24   die from long island anyway [TS]

00:40:26   yeah we guys he dies at the end he tells [TS]

00:40:29   lies [TS]

00:40:29   yeah and then but there's the man on the [TS]

00:40:31   beach or whatever goes over to the Sun [TS]

00:40:32   and says you know come with us and so [TS]

00:40:35   the question the end of the book is is [TS]

00:40:36   that guy on the up-and-up or is the Sun [TS]

00:40:40   going to be tomorrow night's dinner [TS]

00:40:41   right because they've got it sits him [TS]

00:40:43   and a woman and two kids [TS]

00:40:45   yeah so that they you know in theory [TS]

00:40:47   their family but you know and he and he [TS]

00:40:51   said well it goes far enough that he [TS]

00:40:53   talks about how the woman talks a lot [TS]

00:40:55   about god and he doesn't really talk to [TS]

00:40:57   God but he he's gonna ask her first okay [TS]

00:40:59   that he can talk to his dad who's dead [TS]

00:41:01   but he's going to talk to him [TS]

00:41:03   and see there there is that it is [TS]

00:41:06   hopeful and ending as you're ever going [TS]

00:41:08   to get out of that book was the thing is [TS]

00:41:10   a setup and all the things that had [TS]

00:41:12   happened during the course of the book [TS]

00:41:13   set you up to understand that things are [TS]

00:41:16   not what they seem and that everything [TS]

00:41:18   you think is normal is not so when [TS]

00:41:19   you're presented with this at the end [TS]

00:41:20   there's no way you you're put into the [TS]

00:41:23   shoes of the kid and you're like you [TS]

00:41:25   know don't believe it kid and you [TS]

00:41:26   haven't you been paying attention for [TS]

00:41:28   the past 200 pages you know dont thats [TS]

00:41:30   exactly but no don't go but on the other [TS]

00:41:32   hand is gonna die on his own anyways I'm [TS]

00:41:34   sup so we just this poor kid out there [TS]

00:41:36   he's forced to go i was so meet well [TS]

00:41:38   that's that that's the happy [TS]

00:41:39   wow that's good for me I that that for [TS]

00:41:44   me the end of that book is all about the [TS]

00:41:45   lowered standards at the end of the [TS]

00:41:47   world that that's the happy ending at [TS]

00:41:49   the Hat is like well they're not eating [TS]

00:41:51   me immediately they write that might [TS]

00:41:54   protect me and not eat me and but you [TS]

00:41:58   but by knowing what you know about [TS]

00:42:00   everything else that's happened you [TS]

00:42:02   don't go in saying oh it's gonna be fine [TS]

00:42:04   you're like know it [TS]

00:42:06   watch yourself don't trust them maybe [TS]

00:42:09   this will be okay maybe it won't be [TS]

00:42:11   waiting at the same time it's like the [TS]

00:42:13   best [TS]

00:42:14   yeah yeah could sneak up to the stink up [TS]

00:42:16   to the little one little denied him with [TS]

00:42:18   a rock you know its best the best you [TS]

00:42:21   could you can hope for is this chance [TS]

00:42:24   you're fearing that too that's another [TS]

00:42:26   way they could have gone with that is [TS]

00:42:27   that because that the father is trying [TS]

00:42:28   desperately to teach the Sun human [TS]

00:42:31   values and to value human life so we're [TS]

00:42:33   not going to be alive right but the kid [TS]

00:42:35   is young so it's like now that the [TS]

00:42:36   father's influence isn't there will he [TS]

00:42:39   be able to maintain all the things that [TS]

00:42:41   the father tried in part on him over the [TS]

00:42:43   course of the book in the face of the [TS]

00:42:45   fact that he has to survive and survival [TS]

00:42:46   instincts [TS]

00:42:47   besides which there's the as you read it [TS]

00:42:49   you also realize that while its you [TS]

00:42:51   really care about the father and the Son [TS]

00:42:53   staying alive and father protecting the [TS]

00:42:55   Sun it's very clear from the [TS]

00:42:58   surroundings that everyone is not this [TS]

00:43:02   is not a scenario that yeah that is [TS]

00:43:04   going to turn around right it will be it [TS]

00:43:07   will just continue going downhill until [TS]

00:43:09   the last person is dead right it does [TS]

00:43:11   have that beautiful interlude in the [TS]

00:43:12   middle though with the bomb shelter [TS]

00:43:14   it's really warm fuzzy center to this [TS]

00:43:17   book is the bomb shelter thing where you [TS]

00:43:19   know it's gonna end it can't last [TS]

00:43:20   forever right fit for this little tiny [TS]

00:43:23   brief period of time this that moment of [TS]

00:43:25   normalcy that they live a whole life and [TS]

00:43:27   you know however there long they were [TS]

00:43:28   there week right right well that's [TS]

00:43:31   that's the also dark but it but also [TS]

00:43:34   beautiful which is really what that book [TS]

00:43:36   is that that's kind of McCarthy also [TS]

00:43:38   saying you know what's the point of life [TS]

00:43:40   it's that they get they get some time [TS]

00:43:41   together and they're enjoying that thing [TS]

00:43:43   and you know everybody everybody is born [TS]

00:43:45   everybody dies at the end and in the [TS]

00:43:47   middle you hopefully hopefully have a a [TS]

00:43:49   good life and they have the father and [TS]

00:43:50   the Son have that nice little moment [TS]

00:43:52   where they find the kind of undiscovered [TS]

00:43:54   shelter that's can still got some food [TS]

00:43:57   in it but clearly the way the world is [TS]

00:43:58   going is nobody's making it out alive [TS]

00:44:00   they're all just hanging on until they [TS]

00:44:03   are all dead or even or eat well with [TS]

00:44:07   your sweet you don't ya depending on how [TS]

00:44:11   you're eating they could keep you alive [TS]

00:44:12   for wrong slice off bits and pieces that [TS]

00:44:14   you don't need a strip of excited [TS]

00:44:16   because they're all i got a do that of [TS]

00:44:18   course they do [TS]

00:44:19   oh yeah how way worse the mat so Jesus [TS]

00:44:23   house it's dark it's it's a matter of [TS]

00:44:26   food now just just so does anybody else [TS]

00:44:28   have have favorite or or I suppose hate [TS]

00:44:32   of examples of apocalyptic stuff that [TS]

00:44:35   you would like to talk about bring and [TS]

00:44:37   bring up and while we're on the subject [TS]

00:44:38   of depressing things i mentioned Nancy [TS]

00:44:41   cross earlier this is actually think [TS]

00:44:42   that she comes to over and over again to [TS]

00:44:44   which is that humanity will eventually [TS]

00:44:46   screw things up because some [TS]

00:44:48   biotechnological experiment will go [TS]

00:44:50   horribly arrived will be killed enough [TS]

00:44:52   bye-bye genetically modified algae or or [TS]

00:44:56   again somebody will invent an airborne [TS]

00:44:58   cancer that you can catch just by [TS]

00:45:00   sneezing and our her stuff tends to come [TS]

00:45:04   out with how people will deal with the [TS]

00:45:06   realization that they're setting foot on [TS]

00:45:09   the road as it were [TS]

00:45:10   you know one of the conceit seems to be [TS]

00:45:14   that those of us who have experienced [TS]

00:45:15   civilization will be taking it a lot [TS]

00:45:17   harder than people who are born into [TS]

00:45:19   lawlessness generating an Arkie since [TS]

00:45:21   they will never know what they're [TS]

00:45:23   missing [TS]

00:45:25   but you know one of my classic ones is a [TS]

00:45:27   paint a pail of error by Fritz liber [TS]

00:45:29   which is when the earth has a [TS]

00:45:31   catastrophic astrological event and the [TS]

00:45:34   Earth's atmosphere is ripped away and [TS]

00:45:36   basically there's a small family that [TS]

00:45:37   man just survive only by virtue of dad [TS]

00:45:39   having been a climatologist and figuring [TS]

00:45:42   out how to keep the family going but I I [TS]

00:45:46   tend to like the short stories but I do [TS]

00:45:50   agree with Jason that most the time [TS]

00:45:52   there's this here's a here's a scientist [TS]

00:45:54   hiding out in somehow keeping the flame [TS]

00:45:56   of civilization goin whereas like him [TS]

00:45:59   I'll i suspect that if you if an actual [TS]

00:46:01   apocalyptic event were to occur it if [TS]

00:46:04   things would get hideous really quickly [TS]

00:46:06   you know we would we would also generate [TS]

00:46:08   to lawless anarchy oh yeah it wouldn't [TS]

00:46:10   take very much i think now this is the [TS]

00:46:11   thing about the walking dead the [TS]

00:46:13   comic-book versus the the TV show is in [TS]

00:46:15   the TV show everyone is still fairly [TS]

00:46:16   clean and they're saying please and [TS]

00:46:18   thank you and they're very very [TS]

00:46:20   civilized and the the further you get [TS]

00:46:22   into the comic like the worse it gets [TS]

00:46:24   and it actually reflects how people [TS]

00:46:26   would probably act if if they were [TS]

00:46:28   waking up every morning in a world that [TS]

00:46:30   was up to kill them right so you know [TS]

00:46:33   that's that's the thing that I think not [TS]

00:46:34   enough Apocalyptica fiction really [TS]

00:46:36   brings home is the idea that that your [TS]

00:46:39   inexplicably left alive in a place that [TS]

00:46:41   wants to kill you and you have the urge [TS]

00:46:43   to keep going and the question is what [TS]

00:46:45   will you do [TS]

00:46:46   at what point do your actions to survive [TS]

00:46:49   outweigh your value you know as it as a [TS]

00:46:52   living person so Scott you have any [TS]

00:46:55   favorite apocalyptic stories [TS]

00:46:58   well I i cannot remember the name of [TS]

00:47:00   this book which is unfortunate or you'll [TS]

00:47:02   fit right in with that many days [TS]

00:47:05   there you go but it was it was written [TS]

00:47:06   in the fifties set after a nuclear war [TS]

00:47:10   where and somehow these the script [TS]

00:47:12   people managed to have a house to find a [TS]

00:47:16   house and like the Florida Keys and they [TS]

00:47:18   could you know they learned how to farm [TS]

00:47:19   and all the stuff and it was just kind [TS]

00:47:22   of charging how they held out and you [TS]

00:47:25   know they had a radio and they're [TS]

00:47:26   listening for transmissions and at the [TS]

00:47:28   end of the book a helicopter with the US [TS]

00:47:32   flag lands on it and you know a guy [TS]

00:47:35   comes out dressed [TS]

00:47:37   not uniform and the first thing the main [TS]

00:47:39   character asks him is did we win the war [TS]

00:47:42   and the the American soldier says yes we [TS]

00:47:46   did but it as i was reading this is like [TS]

00:47:48   nobody won this war if there isn't it [TS]

00:47:50   pretty clear where everybody loses [TS]

00:47:52   so it's so didn't even more games [TS]

00:47:54   exactly nobody wins him like a pretty [TS]

00:47:58   was wasn't I yeah yeah he did say that [TS]

00:48:00   you enter that it was a lonely he had [TS]

00:48:03   but it was a very pro-america book even [TS]

00:48:07   after you can't you can't stop us with [TS]

00:48:09   your nuclear weapons will be five guys [TS]

00:48:12   in the Florida Keys will laugh at you [TS]

00:48:14   exactly Ivan until the radiation [TS]

00:48:19   Clarence cloud drifts over and killed [TS]

00:48:20   yeah yeah well it's the sequel it's much [TS]

00:48:24   more depressing [TS]

00:48:25   John do you have any I was trying to [TS]

00:48:29   think of the weirdest apocalypse short [TS]

00:48:31   story I read and I i know the story but [TS]

00:48:34   I don't know the title author anything [TS]

00:48:36   about it and actually I also search [TS]

00:48:38   toured extensively before the show and [TS]

00:48:40   totally can't but maybe Jason you've [TS]

00:48:42   read it uh it was very short story and [TS]

00:48:44   it was in one of those collections i [TS]

00:48:45   think it's a bunch of people who are in [TS]

00:48:47   this old house and it's snowing and at [TS]

00:48:51   one point someone goes out into the snow [TS]

00:48:53   and then gets ripped into bloody shreds [TS]

00:48:55   and no one knows what it's about and [TS]

00:48:56   it's a retreat back into the house and [TS]

00:48:58   like the radio they're not getting radio [TS]

00:48:59   signals anymore and just snow is still [TS]

00:49:01   in the entire planet up and they're all [TS]

00:49:02   trapped in this house and people keep [TS]

00:49:04   dying gory deaths and it turns out this [TS]

00:49:06   is weird [TS]

00:49:07   invisible snow snake dragon monster is [TS]

00:49:10   killing people and also having sex with [TS]

00:49:12   them during any bells anybody there [TS]

00:49:15   after he kills them did during usually I [TS]

00:49:18   oh god it's very it's very very strange [TS]

00:49:21   if you first you start to reading like [TS]

00:49:23   it's a horror story where there's a [TS]

00:49:24   monster on the loose the second like [TS]

00:49:26   it's science fiction because the end of [TS]

00:49:27   the world civilization is breaking down [TS]

00:49:28   and I i like the idea of people being [TS]

00:49:30   trapped in a house that was kind of one [TS]

00:49:31   of those you know people going crazy [TS]

00:49:33   trapped in one spot the apocalypse virus [TS]

00:49:35   know is very interesting to me or just [TS]

00:49:37   like well it's not stopping snowing but [TS]

00:49:40   you know what what happens now we're [TS]

00:49:42   just gonna be buried in snow and strange [TS]

00:49:44   invisible magic ghost sex dragon [TS]

00:49:49   monsters [TS]

00:49:50   so that was the most interesting [TS]

00:49:51   apocalyptic had never seen that if the [TS]

00:49:53   snow won't get you the invisible dragon [TS]

00:49:55   monsters will [TS]

00:49:56   yes I and I think Nick and telling let [TS]

00:49:58   me tell you that is not an easy story to [TS]

00:50:00   go before [TS]

00:50:01   yeah I know that but then the more sort [TS]

00:50:06   of a mainstream stuff i'll just go back [TS]

00:50:08   to my Steven catalog and and pick out a [TS]

00:50:10   some favorites versus the long walk i [TS]

00:50:13   always liked is a pretty simple premise [TS]

00:50:16   apocalypse the short story and that has [TS]

00:50:20   anyone read The Long Walk is that [TS]

00:50:21   familiar to anyone know any Lisa while [TS]

00:50:24   the premises that it's one of these [TS]

00:50:28   nonsensical contest sort of like The [TS]

00:50:30   Hunger Games where they don't explain or [TS]

00:50:32   anything like that because the short [TS]

00:50:33   story and a bumpy ride it yeah people [TS]

00:50:36   get together and you walk when you stop [TS]

00:50:37   walking the shoot you [TS]

00:50:39   yes and the lab the last one not shot [TS]

00:50:41   wins and it's all that story is not much [TS]

00:50:44   of a promise right but you know it's [TS]

00:50:46   like ya know because it's it's it's this [TS]

00:50:49   wonderful internal story and it's [TS]

00:50:51   basically about some people struggling [TS]

00:50:53   against the constraints of both external [TS]

00:50:55   society and the intrinsic biological [TS]

00:50:57   limits that we all have to live with you [TS]

00:50:58   know it's a great story that great and I [TS]

00:51:01   was a great 413 or fine then the [TS]

00:51:03   expanded version of that was the running [TS]

00:51:04   man which but uh was that the actual [TS]

00:51:06   star Stephen King story is the one that [TS]

00:51:08   became that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie [TS]

00:51:09   with the guy for families not a man yeah [TS]

00:51:11   yeah well the short story was not quite [TS]

00:51:13   as schlocky is that but that's what the [TS]

00:51:15   The Naturalist reminded me of because [TS]

00:51:18   you got zombies and you've got to [TS]

00:51:19   preserve and you've got prisoners you [TS]

00:51:20   just need cameras and audience and [TS]

00:51:23   what's his name who's the family guy [TS]

00:51:26   richard Dawson Richard glasses yeah [TS]

00:51:29   now who loves you and who do you love [TS]

00:51:30   that's all i needed to add to the [TS]

00:51:31   naturalist there that I i do like short [TS]

00:51:35   stories for apocalyptic stuff because [TS]

00:51:36   really it's like I don't you don't need [TS]

00:51:38   to explain how it happened i don't [TS]

00:51:39   really know really know how it comes out [TS]

00:51:41   just in the middle give me that part and [TS]

00:51:43   so that works well for short stories I [TS]

00:51:44   mean that we we mentioned on the Stephen [TS]

00:51:46   King podcast last on the stand is really [TS]

00:51:48   a an apocalyptic yeah that's that's a [TS]

00:51:50   beginning middle and end thing but you [TS]

00:51:52   need two thousand message of that and [TS]

00:51:53   the beginning I mean I really love the [TS]

00:51:55   beginning of the stand because really [TS]

00:51:58   before the the the being plotted the [TS]

00:52:00   street [TS]

00:52:01   goes into gear he gets to spend some [TS]

00:52:04   time destroying the world basically yeah [TS]

00:52:07   that's not the good kind of apocalypse [TS]

00:52:09   where you kill everybody because that's [TS]

00:52:10   the key to the apocalypse is if you [TS]

00:52:12   leave people around either alive or [TS]

00:52:14   zombies then it's just bad and they all [TS]

00:52:15   kill each other bad things happen to be [TS]

00:52:17   killed pretty much everybody's like my [TS]

00:52:19   separately right yeah except for like a [TS]

00:52:21   couple hundred thousand people then you [TS]

00:52:23   got something and especially if you know [TS]

00:52:25   you didn't destroy everything there's no [TS]

00:52:26   radiation there's no famine and there's [TS]

00:52:28   no no diseases like everyone alive is [TS]

00:52:30   immune [TS]

00:52:32   that's pretty good he had the best [TS]

00:52:33   premise for end of the world but you're [TS]

00:52:35   like yeah no no problem [TS]

00:52:38   nothing's really broken everything's [TS]

00:52:39   here why can't we live like a civil [TS]

00:52:41   society oh it's that you know well the [TS]

00:52:44   the guy changes into a raven maybe put a [TS]

00:52:46   damper on there that's why tell me [TS]

00:52:50   something i had to that I wanted to [TS]

00:52:52   bring up one hellish road one is here [TS]

00:52:56   when everyone is Earth by David Brin [TS]

00:52:59   which it is not a great book [TS]

00:53:01   oh my fuck now oh my god it does feature [TS]

00:53:05   my a very funny thing which is the plot [TS]

00:53:08   is basically some scientists create a [TS]

00:53:09   black hole and moves it drops into the [TS]

00:53:12   center of the earth and begins consuming [TS]

00:53:13   the earth slowly I'll do it I what [TS]

00:53:17   you're gonna do it science [TS]

00:53:18   he's got a savage computer hacker on one [TS]

00:53:21   side and the gay hypothesis loving [TS]

00:53:23   hippie on the other and it all works [TS]

00:53:25   oh yeah and turns out the world doesn't [TS]

00:53:27   add bicycle wacky stages and turtles [TS]

00:53:30   into the like all because then just and [TS]

00:53:32   that's what brings only have you heard [TS]

00:53:34   the husband James it's black holes all [TS]

00:53:35   the way down Johnny I have not read the [TS]

00:53:37   postman ok that's his really that's his [TS]

00:53:40   dark matter that is I want to disturb [TS]

00:53:42   but I just like the idea that that the [TS]

00:53:43   movie that will seminal hope we so we [TS]

00:53:47   made a black hole the good news good [TS]

00:53:49   news figured out how to make a black [TS]

00:53:51   hole bad news going to consume the earth [TS]

00:53:53   sorry we got a good eye and I'm gonna [TS]

00:53:56   like when worlds collide it's like I got [TS]

00:53:58   a rocket i'm leaving bye see ya takin [TS]

00:54:01   the other the other 1i want to mention i [TS]

00:54:03   think i mentioned this in a previous [TS]

00:54:04   podcast it's it's a the second book in a [TS]

00:54:07   series by john barnes the first book is [TS]

00:54:10   a million open doors which I really [TS]

00:54:11   loved about actually been [TS]

00:54:14   currently-reading that I like this whole [TS]

00:54:16   series you gave me this series my [TS]

00:54:18   birthday one year i think i did well the [TS]

00:54:21   second book is really depressing haha [TS]

00:54:23   it's called Earth made of glass dad's [TS]

00:54:27   about to in this in this series [TS]

00:54:29   different cultures of current and [TS]

00:54:34   extinct actually cultures are seated [TS]

00:54:36   across all these habitable planets in in [TS]

00:54:39   in space so you have these various [TS]

00:54:41   cultures and and this one planet has [TS]

00:54:44   these two essentially incompatible [TS]

00:54:47   culture sharing it [TS]

00:54:48   there-there tamil zand there are [TS]

00:54:51   reconstituted basically Mayan cold and [TS]

00:54:54   they're at each other's throats and the [TS]

00:54:56   main characters in this in this series [TS]

00:54:58   are basically like interstellar [TS]

00:55:00   diplomats the the premise is really [TS]

00:55:02   clever the idea is that it used to be [TS]

00:55:05   interstellar travel took hundreds of [TS]

00:55:07   years and so these all these cultures [TS]

00:55:09   were essentially completely cut off [TS]

00:55:10   which is why they sort of built the [TS]

00:55:12   built society the way they did where [TS]

00:55:14   they have these different cultures going [TS]

00:55:15   and going out to run on their own except [TS]

00:55:18   inconvenient somebody creates a device [TS]

00:55:22   that lets you step through a portal from [TS]

00:55:24   one planet to another and it causes huge [TS]

00:55:27   culture clashes and its really an [TS]

00:55:29   interesting idea anyway earth made a [TS]

00:55:31   made a blast these diplomats come to try [TS]

00:55:33   and settle the dispute between these two [TS]

00:55:36   cultures and it doesn't go well and and [TS]

00:55:40   and I i think that i think the book is [TS]

00:55:43   worth reading anyway but i'm going to [TS]

00:55:44   spoil it here which is essentially at [TS]

00:55:47   the end they all launched like they're [TS]

00:55:48   gamma 1 gamma ray beams and I they it's [TS]

00:55:53   unclear but the diplomats who escaped [TS]

00:55:56   right at the very end it believe that [TS]

00:55:59   nobody is left alive and if there is [TS]

00:56:01   anybody left alive there are very few [TS]

00:56:03   people left alive these to get a lion [TS]

00:56:05   culture goodbye town yeah kill each [TS]

00:56:07   other they could date they they refused [TS]

00:56:10   to its brinkmanship right they hate each [TS]

00:56:13   other they refused to negotiate with [TS]

00:56:14   each other you can draw the parallel [TS]

00:56:16   with all sorts of different examples on [TS]

00:56:17   modern-day planet earth and in the end [TS]

00:56:20   they kill each other because there's [TS]

00:56:22   nothing they will not live with each [TS]

00:56:24   other so instead they died together and [TS]

00:56:26   it's so depressing [TS]

00:56:27   yet brilliant i thought it was really [TS]

00:56:29   great that he went there and then you [TS]

00:56:30   spend this entire book with these [TS]

00:56:32   diplomats trying to stave off [TS]

00:56:33   annihilation of this planet and they [TS]

00:56:36   fail [TS]

00:56:37   yeah anyway so earth made of glass [TS]

00:56:40   i recommend it if you like it if you [TS]

00:56:43   like it dark and that's a good series [TS]

00:56:45   that John Barnes yeah i'm going to read [TS]

00:56:47   that and I Fallon trivia the name of the [TS]

00:56:50   book that i was describing its lat [TS]

00:56:52   alas Babylon I was gonna guess that an [TS]

00:56:55   hour because i read that book when I was [TS]

00:56:57   anyway you were describing like Jesus [TS]

00:56:58   sounds familiar to me I wonder if the [TS]

00:56:59   last Babylon like I only think that [TS]

00:57:01   because that's like the only book i read [TS]

00:57:03   in school that I can remember but it [TS]

00:57:04   actually is it is in fact you were right [TS]

00:57:07   yeah yeah we can read that in like [TS]

00:57:09   middle school or something and I had to [TS]

00:57:11   read that in class [TS]

00:57:12   oh interesting and the America one yes I [TS]

00:57:16   i was gonna say that sounds a little bit [TS]

00:57:17   like on the beach [TS]

00:57:18   yeah that one to which is a [TS]

00:57:21   post-apocalyptic Australian [TS]

00:57:22   post-apocalyptic nukes all about the [TS]

00:57:25   nukes [TS]

00:57:25   yeah yeah australia all about the [TS]

00:57:28   beaches even after the apocalypse [TS]

00:57:30   still it means them i'm not the other it [TS]

00:57:33   all wikipedia is also reminded me [TS]

00:57:34   probably my favorite apocalyptic story [TS]

00:57:36   which i completely forgot make fall by I [TS]

00:57:39   seguro [TS]

00:57:40   oh that's that's funny because that's [TS]

00:57:43   like student that I astronomical [TS]

00:57:45   apocalypse right is good [TS]

00:57:47   yeah we are in 2012 that's a good [TS]

00:57:49   old-fashioned mayan calendar pockets [TS]

00:57:51   right it is true [TS]

00:57:52   yeah they're obviously planet is always [TS]

00:57:55   illuminated except when is so it has [TS]

00:57:58   like three sons or something and every [TS]

00:58:00   5,000 years or something that they all [TS]

00:58:02   eclipse at the same time and what [TS]

00:58:04   happened he goes crazy everybody goes [TS]

00:58:06   crazy except for the the astronomers who [TS]

00:58:09   are locked in the observatory and the [TS]

00:58:11   you know by the end you certainly are [TS]

00:58:14   dead and it was turned into an awful [TS]

00:58:16   which was less successful but any other [TS]

00:58:19   ends any other worlds we should end the [TS]

00:58:22   hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy is [TS]

00:58:23   really about the world and the first 20 [TS]

00:58:25   pages and yeah [TS]

00:58:27   sherry sherry tempers novel the gate to [TS]

00:58:29   women's country supposed apocalyptic [TS]

00:58:31   novel where it picks up presumably [TS]

00:58:35   believe in not radical feminists are [TS]

00:58:37   responsible for the resurgence of [TS]

00:58:38   civilization [TS]

00:58:40   and it's a good it's it's it's it's it's [TS]

00:58:44   not a science fiction in the radical [TS]

00:58:47   feminist tradition of the nineteen [TS]

00:58:48   seventies rather what she does is she [TS]

00:58:50   examines the kind of societies that are [TS]

00:58:52   likely to come up if you do have a group [TS]

00:58:54   of women survival is to get together and [TS]

00:58:56   decide these are the rules of our new [TS]

00:58:57   society going forth and it presents a [TS]

00:59:00   pretty balanced view of of both the pros [TS]

00:59:02   and the cons and feels pretty [TS]

00:59:05   realistically with that with the climate [TS]

00:59:07   issues you know what it would be like to [TS]

00:59:08   have to live in a world that's [TS]

00:59:11   effectively enduring nuclear winter [TS]

00:59:13   it'sit's and it's one of temper can be a [TS]

00:59:17   hard one to get into because as she's [TS]

00:59:19   gotten deeper into her writing career [TS]

00:59:20   like she's really began to flow on her [TS]

00:59:22   to hobbyhorses big time in her too big [TS]

00:59:25   automatic cause celeb RR restrict [TS]

00:59:28   repressive gender roles in society both [TS]

00:59:29   male and female and environmental [TS]

00:59:31   degradation but but here that it's a [TS]

00:59:34   really light touch and it's a nice [TS]

00:59:35   little story and the kind of thing you [TS]

00:59:37   could probably get to high school class [TS]

00:59:38   and it would make them think and it's [TS]

00:59:41   it's it's a very gentle post-apocalyptic [TS]

00:59:42   book of that makes sense in the [TS]

00:59:44   seventies when the there were successful [TS]

00:59:48   disaster movies on a disaster movies [TS]

00:59:51   like the towering inferno and and an [TS]

00:59:55   airport there were some science fiction [TS]

00:59:55   airport there were some science fiction [TS]

01:00:00   shouldn't disaster books I I most [TS]

01:00:02   notably i'm thinking of Lucifer's hammer [TS]

01:00:05   by Jerry Pournelle and larry niven which [TS]

01:00:07   is about a a comet smacking into the [TS]

01:00:09   earth but they also did and then they [TS]

01:00:12   did footfall which is very much [TS]

01:00:14   Lucifer's hammer except what if the [TS]

01:00:16   comet was pushed by alien who I but i [TS]

01:00:21   enjoyed both those books just in the [TS]

01:00:23   sense like really enjoyed the beginning [TS]

01:00:25   of the stand where it's kind of fun to [TS]

01:00:27   see the authors portraying just a [TS]

01:00:28   complete devastation of of us of society [TS]

01:00:32   yeah but in a fantasy sort of way so [TS]

01:00:34   it's not as as depressing as something [TS]

01:00:36   like the road which might be a little [TS]

01:00:38   more realistic and i want to mention y [TS]

01:00:40   the last man the comic which we did a [TS]

01:00:42   podcast about which is about sort of [TS]

01:00:44   half an apocalypse is all the men died [TS]

01:00:46   except 11 but none of the women die but [TS]

01:00:49   society is then has to deal with the [TS]

01:00:52   fact that there are that the half the [TS]

01:00:54   population is gone and and that's [TS]

01:00:58   actually handled that's a lot of fun in [TS]

01:01:00   that [TS]

01:01:00   yes and it's a half of the population [TS]

01:01:02   that actually managed transit [TS]

01:01:04   infrastructure so and run large scale [TS]

01:01:07   and large-scale agriculture so the [TS]

01:01:09   sexism of society is is amusingly [TS]

01:01:12   inferred right by the back that all [TS]

01:01:16   these jobs have to be picked up because [TS]

01:01:18   what what you know what we're with what [TS]

01:01:20   women in positions of power and where [TS]

01:01:22   were they not involved so so you are as [TS]

01:01:27   you as you figure out how they deal with [TS]

01:01:29   it you you were you get to infer from [TS]

01:01:31   that just have sex the our society he is [TS]

01:01:35   now and you find out why israel in [TS]

01:01:38   Australia are going to end up ruling the [TS]

01:01:39   season when the event happened with is [TS]

01:01:42   where the inevitable wide elastic [TS]

01:01:43   apocalypse it's gonna happen [TS]

01:01:46   well miss you guys only Scott know [TS]

01:01:49   that's right made alive in my middle [TS]

01:01:51   name is why ya mean these books did make [TS]

01:01:54   me not want to survive an apocalypse I [TS]

01:01:57   don't know what people continue if that [TS]

01:02:00   have if the road of population had dream [TS]

01:02:02   right [TS]

01:02:02   I'm not I'm not I'm not going out there [TS]

01:02:04   and trying to survive for years a [TS]

01:02:07   apocalypse i'm going to want to die [TS]

01:02:09   quickly now I think a Comic Con last [TS]

01:02:11   year they asked Robert Kirkman what he [TS]

01:02:13   would do if the walking dead zombie [TS]

01:02:15   apocalypse really happened and he said [TS]

01:02:17   he'd hang himself he said I'm not [TS]

01:02:20   interested in living in that world the [TS]

01:02:22   next it's another biker I could have [TS]

01:02:24   been inside water virginia which is the [TS]

01:02:25   home to Fort Eustis an army base and [TS]

01:02:28   handles logistics and it's also home to [TS]

01:02:30   the Norfolk Naval Base in langley air [TS]

01:02:32   force base and this is back in the [TS]

01:02:34   nineteen eighties when we were all [TS]

01:02:35   terribly terribly worried about nuclear [TS]

01:02:37   weapons and we're talking about it over [TS]

01:02:40   dinner one night and i asked my dad you [TS]

01:02:41   know it is it possible that in debt my [TS]

01:02:43   dad says cheerfully hobby were one of [TS]

01:02:45   the first areas to be attacked and I [TS]

01:02:47   said we could get I think we get in the [TS]

01:02:49   car and go to the mountains that he goes [TS]

01:02:50   no we're gonna get lawn chairs and we're [TS]

01:02:52   going to sit out and watch the bombs [TS]

01:02:54   fall because you don't want to live [TS]

01:02:55   through the aftermath let's go out a big [TS]

01:02:56   blaze of glory and that was the world [TS]

01:03:00   and that was the world view that my [TS]

01:03:02   parents and curtains going up which is [TS]

01:03:03   if there's going to be an apocalypse [TS]

01:03:05   type of event just just just go in the [TS]

01:03:08   first wave there's there's no point in [TS]

01:03:10   living 360 with morgan freeman comes on [TS]

01:03:13   your TV and says we're going to be hit [TS]

01:03:15   by a comet but we've got a system of [TS]

01:03:17   caves to protect that don't go to the [TS]

01:03:20   caves i go i get my surfboard and I go [TS]

01:03:22   hang out on a balcony and wait for the [TS]

01:03:24   tidal wave to come in and I got hanging [TS]

01:03:26   ten [TS]

01:03:27   yeah you guys can all die but i'm going [TS]

01:03:30   to survive [TS]

01:03:31   John will survive because like see that [TS]

01:03:33   that's the problem with these messages a [TS]

01:03:34   comment it's an astronomical event than [TS]

01:03:36   you then you just don't mean does it [TS]

01:03:37   really matter where you are like the [TS]

01:03:39   whole parts toast atmosphere gets blown [TS]

01:03:40   off fine but anything man-made even [TS]

01:03:43   nuclear war it's a big planet you know [TS]

01:03:45   it like it's probably not going to be [TS]

01:03:46   used it's there but it's gonna be [TS]

01:03:47   somebody like in the Himalayas was been [TS]

01:03:50   living there is whole life for you know [TS]

01:03:52   who knows where in some jungle somewhere [TS]

01:03:54   area that it's a very very very big [TS]

01:03:56   planet and we think about all is the end [TS]

01:03:58   of the world but really most of the [TS]

01:03:59   stories like it's the end of the [TS]

01:04:01   population centers in the United States [TS]

01:04:03   really but some dude in North Dakota's [TS]

01:04:05   but no TV no radio will notice for like [TS]

01:04:08   seven years probably you know I mean [TS]

01:04:10   it's big mighty planet big planet i was [TS]

01:04:12   also watching oddly enough Doomsday [TS]

01:04:14   Preppers which is a new show that [TS]

01:04:17   started watching that is better should [TS]

01:04:19   be seriously it's just addictive making [TS]

01:04:21   up these show titles now you don't know [TS]

01:04:23   no no I cereal bowl fillers next I know [TS]

01:04:27   but that's why I have a piece that I'm [TS]

01:04:28   working on for TV about how dmca [TS]

01:04:30   Preppers they're basically just like [TS]

01:04:31   purpose-driven horrible murders they are [TS]

01:04:33   holy purpose driven orders that I [TS]

01:04:35   haven't I have admit an omission which [TS]

01:04:37   is we had in our one in one of our barns [TS]

01:04:41   on the property that i grew up on out in [TS]

01:04:43   the countryside we had rashes my father [TS]

01:04:48   purchased rack end-of-the-world rations [TS]

01:04:51   so that again we would survive and be [TS]

01:04:52   miserable for one together you do no no [TS]

01:04:56   it was like it was like fallout shelter [TS]

01:04:59   yeah offer so for how many weeks do the [TS]

01:05:02   math and say assuming all this food is [TS]

01:05:03   good and it's edible and what was you [TS]

01:05:06   know I was pretty young i imagine that [TS]

01:05:08   they would just you know where bro [TS]

01:05:10   slow-roasted me or something [TS]

01:05:12   no I'm good just in supplemental protein [TS]

01:05:14   that's one of the key of the apocalypse [TS]

01:05:15   is everybody else has to die because i [TS]

01:05:17   clear the roads are not clear the roads [TS]

01:05:19   literally but figuratively clears the [TS]

01:05:21   way for you to then traveled to [TS]

01:05:23   someplace that's more hospitable that [TS]

01:05:25   you know you're not fighting for [TS]

01:05:26   supplies with people you know you like a [TS]

01:05:29   man who has his action plan in place for [TS]

01:05:31   your pocket you've got your bug-out play [TS]

01:05:33   out step on everybody but me and like 10 [TS]

01:05:36   of the people dies step to a party time [TS]

01:05:39   you get to pick the 10 of the important [TS]

01:05:41   question that is that actually that's [TS]

01:05:44   one of my favorite things about [TS]

01:05:45   apocalyptic stories is when the [TS]

01:05:46   apocalypse is complete like John says [TS]

01:05:48   there's almost nobody left [TS]

01:05:50   that's actually great because then you [TS]

01:05:51   have the scenes where people just walk [TS]

01:05:52   through the streets and piston and and [TS]

01:05:54   they've got new their choice of there [TS]

01:05:57   like wearing big jewelry and when it is [TS]

01:05:59   yours and little girl little girl used [TS]

01:06:02   to I used to fantasize about living the [TS]

01:06:04   Smithsonian i was going to survive the [TS]

01:06:06   apocalypse about moving to the [TS]

01:06:07   Smithsonian so that i could spend all [TS]

01:06:09   day with the dinosaurs and hang out with [TS]

01:06:11   a NASA capsule don't need to kill each [TS]

01:06:13   other if they're only 15 of you and [TS]

01:06:15   you've got the resources of all of its [TS]

01:06:17   spread out spread out everyone gets a [TS]

01:06:19   continent [TS]

01:06:20   it's beautiful and not even just like [TS]

01:06:22   the maze that this beautiful places that [TS]

01:06:23   you would normally get to see that you [TS]

01:06:25   know as long as you've got your your [TS]

01:06:26   your needs provided for you which you [TS]

01:06:28   would easily for life just from the [TS]

01:06:29   stuff that's laying around [TS]

01:06:30   you can you can set yourself up in [TS]

01:06:32   Yosemite have the best view in the world [TS]

01:06:34   every year you can go to a different [TS]

01:06:35   continent it's the whole planet is yours [TS]

01:06:38   how do you get to the other continents [TS]

01:06:39   you walk here is you know it's it take [TS]

01:06:42   your time and the answer is you would [TS]

01:06:44   you teach yourself to fly there you go [TS]

01:06:47   go to friends and 10 and you go to [TS]

01:06:50   France right exactly going to friends as [TS]

01:06:52   they say oh you don't need that reminds [TS]

01:06:56   me of the the wonderful Twilight Zone [TS]

01:06:58   episode where you know uh everybody dies [TS]

01:07:01   you guys finally has enough time to meet [TS]

01:07:03   at last one of his class and he breaks [TS]

01:07:05   of classes am i paranoid dad used to [TS]

01:07:07   tell me that one of the cautionary tale [TS]

01:07:08   when I was growing up [TS]

01:07:09   true always have a backup pair of [TS]

01:07:12   glasses that's what we learned [TS]

01:07:13   yes yeah but if everybody's again he [TS]

01:07:16   could have any idea or through his [TS]

01:07:17   prescription you can see them to the [TS]

01:07:19   optometrist he could see well enough to [TS]

01:07:22   find a optometrist and go through their [TS]

01:07:24   lens is one by one that that's the story [TS]

01:07:26   they don't tell you is that this [TS]

01:07:27   Meredith gets up off his knees wanders [TS]

01:07:29   down the street to the optometrist find [TS]

01:07:31   some monocle and is he is a happy man [TS]

01:07:34   with a monocle reading for the rest of [TS]

01:07:36   his life [TS]

01:07:36   they don't tell you that story the [TS]

01:07:38   monocle the man with the blood happy [TS]

01:07:41   monocle man it's a happy apocalypse yeah [TS]

01:07:45   it's for everyone and everybody has [TS]

01:07:48   their own continent [TS]

01:07:49   this is great I feeling cheered up now [TS]

01:07:51   I'm so glad that we had this a edition [TS]

01:07:53   of the incomparable book club where we [TS]

01:07:55   talk about the end of the world and and [TS]

01:07:56   made it made it a positive it's just [TS]

01:07:58   like John siracusa to turn my frown [TS]

01:08:00   upside down [TS]

01:08:01   that's right thank you for that and you [TS]

01:08:03   will survive will all be doing at your [TS]

01:08:05   hand but you survived sometimes John can [TS]

01:08:08   harvest his hatred of everything for [TS]

01:08:09   good [TS]

01:08:10   well you can have my stuff about well I [TS]

01:08:17   don't even need your permission you're [TS]

01:08:19   not going to be here there are plenty of [TS]

01:08:21   canned goods in my apartment so oh my [TS]

01:08:24   god you turn into zombies are going to [TS]

01:08:26   have to move to North Dakota's alright [TS]

01:08:28   so we look up [TS]

01:08:29   oh you have to do some experimentation [TS]

01:08:31   on us to find out [TS]

01:08:33   all right i'm gonna close up the [TS]

01:08:34   incomparable book club for this time [TS]

01:08:36   before we go we're going to have a new [TS]

01:08:41   new edition of the book club coming up [TS]

01:08:42   and we are it's very unlike us we've [TS]

01:08:45   actually planned ahead [TS]

01:08:46   the next topic for the incomparable book [TS]

01:08:48   club we're calling it it's magic [TS]

01:08:51   oh can you feel the magic we're gonna [TS]

01:08:53   we're going to read the Night Circus by [TS]

01:08:55   Erin Morgenstern Morgenstern i think yes [TS]

01:08:58   Morgenstern not s Morgenstern that's the [TS]

01:09:00   princess bride the Night Circus by Erin [TS]

01:09:03   Morgenstern the magicians by lev [TS]

01:09:06   grossman I is also on the agenda that's [TS]

01:09:10   a magic book and where we may talk about [TS]

01:09:13   although it's really large and if you [TS]

01:09:14   don't have time to read it that's ok but [TS]

01:09:16   we'll probably talk about Jonathan [TS]

01:09:17   strange and mr Norell which is another [TS]

01:09:19   magic you had a book i felt that these [TS]

01:09:22   books all sort of seemed interrelated [TS]

01:09:25   and so I thought we would talk about [TS]

01:09:26   them in in bulk to save time and I I [TS]

01:09:31   think they're all good in their own way [TS]

01:09:33   and they're all very interesting so [TS]

01:09:34   we're gonna that will be in three or [TS]

01:09:36   four weeks we'll talk about magic and [TS]

01:09:38   the night circus the magicians and [TS]

01:09:41   Jonathan strange and mr Turner l and [TS]

01:09:43   perhaps other magical books too but [TS]

01:09:46   until then i would like to thank in this [TS]

01:09:47   week's book club participants Lisa [TS]

01:09:50   Schmeisser thank you as always for being [TS]

01:09:53   here and being part of our end of the [TS]

01:09:55   world conversation however the end of [TS]

01:09:58   the world is there i am are you yes [TS]

01:10:01   good for you good for you i may skip it [TS]

01:10:04   Scott McNulty thank you for for [TS]

01:10:07   participating in this apocalypse [TS]

01:10:08   I feel fine that's good i was waiting [TS]

01:10:12   somebody had to do it [TS]

01:10:13   whoever at Scott in the REM reference [TS]

01:10:16   pick you I had Scott I with yay and then [TS]

01:10:23   John syracuse thank you for [TS]

01:10:24   participating and we you will survive [TS]

01:10:26   i'll save a spot in the top of the [TS]

01:10:28   Empire State Building for you Jason [TS]

01:10:30   I'll I'll come there Walker from the [TS]

01:10:32   Himalayas and minor I'm take your time [TS]

01:10:35   right you and lots of reading this truck [TS]

01:10:40   I can do along the way with my monocle [TS]

01:10:41   pack your model i will i will hold if I [TS]

01:10:44   forgot my monocle that wouldn't be sad [TS]

01:10:46   it was walking back [TS]

01:10:48   that would be that was the first draft [TS]

01:10:50   at twilight zone episode he loses his [TS]

01:10:52   monocle [TS]

01:10:53   yeah alright until next time unless the [TS]

01:10:57   world ends in the meantime I suppose for [TS]

01:11:01   the uncomfortable i'm jason still thanks [TS]

01:11:02   for listening [TS]

01:11:06   [Music] [TS]