The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► this is jumping ahead a little bit but [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► where we are running out of time so i [TS]

00:00:03 ◼   ► wanna i wanna bring this up we'll just [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► go back and do the podcast we will i'll [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► just reset it will just really my lord [TS]

00:00:09 ◼   ► will do it again and you guys what I [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► will be older but you guys won't be any [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► older this time I'll just kill Jason in [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► the beginning in a graveyard [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► thank goodness it'll be a much better [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► podcast i'll solve all of our problems [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► it says you'll have to the podcast [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► the incomparable podcast number 77 [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► everywhere we went well it's time for [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► another incredible podcast and in [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► addition of our book club [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► I'm Jason smell the hosted be [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► uncomfortable our topic today is the [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► latest novel from prolific beloved [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► author Stephen King this one is 11 22 63 [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► a tale of time travel and and so much [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► more [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► joining me to discuss stephen king's [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► latest are Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► good evening it's great to have you here [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► thank you it's a pleasure to be here [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► also joining us finally on the same [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► podcast serenity Caldwell hai Ram how [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► you doing I'm doing pretty good how are [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► you Jason I'm doing great it is it is [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► great to finally have you and Lisa both [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► on the same podcast now it's kind of [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► it's here here i wonder if the universe [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► will do something horrible like cause [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► earthquakes or other nevermind nuclear [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► and we'll get that will get out court [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► the or or or worse accession of American [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► States to Canada were basically said [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► that like it's a bad thing [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► this is true also joining me today are [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► John siracusa hi John adjacent you're a [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► huge Stephen King fan are you not i am [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► i've read almost office blocks and [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► that's a lot of books right yeah I've [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► realized i haven't read that many of his [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► books and I probably should should get [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► get on that you should [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► yeah I should and also joining us one [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► final contestant Dain more'n hi dan I [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► Jason good to be you just finished this [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► book like 10 minutes ago right about [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► about 20 minutes before this episode [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► yeah yeah it was pretty close i applied [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► to about 500 pages in the last day [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► well the wire so that the the downside [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► of that is that who knows what your [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► recall is going to be like but the good [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► side is you read it recently at least [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► he's not just shouting incoherently Jim [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► law gym like oh man [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► III have a I read this at my mostly at [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► my parents house when I was there for [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► christmas and i had a I like a nightmare [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► about joomla at one point of my god you [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► look for a book that's not outwardly [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► like a whore book there some terrifying [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► parts of this boat is little moments so [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► so I guess we should start at the [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► beginning of this book obviously 11 22 [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► 63 is the day of the Kennedy [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► assassination and this book is [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► apparently a book that Stephen King [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► originally thought about writing in 1971 [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► and he didn't get around to it until [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► 2009-2010 when you read this book and [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► it's about a a teacher in Maine of [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► course its main who goes who has a guy [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► who runs a diner who decides he would be [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► a good candidate to go through a time [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► portal and try to stop the Kennedy [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► assassination [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► of course how many of those books that [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► we read is-7 and uh and a lot that part [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► of it is really interesting because it's [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► um it's very Stephen King it's it's it's [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► so almost pedestrian and yet also [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► outrageous at the same time that there's [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► of course there's a guy who has a diner [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► where in the storeroom there's a time [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► portal to the nineteen fifties of course [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► there is and then but what I like [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► because I don't think about this sort of [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► genre for stephen king is that he's got [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► a very good grasp of of time-travel [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► mechanics to the point where he the you [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► know are our main our main character [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► whose name is Jake Jake epping he he is [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► much less familiar with Al the the guy [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► who runs the diner analysis with him [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► because Alice had many years to think [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► about using Jake as a time-travel [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► subject while he was doing his own his [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► own time traveling whereas for Jake it's [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► sort of like he sees al one day and then [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► the next day Alice many years older and [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► is about to die from lung cancer which [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► hit you know and and so he sends them [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► out on this mission to go through go [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► through a time portal 2 1958 so we got [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► the time portal and I think I think [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► you're reading a Stephen King novel [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► you're reading any kind of genre novel [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► and you take the time portal in your [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► alright so this time travel got it [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► and yet one of the things that he hits [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► you with right away is that there's this [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► character there's this guy [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► Yellowcard man just as you emerge from [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► this time portal the first thing you see [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► is this guy who seems to know that [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► something is wrong and that you [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► shouldn't be there [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► so right away he does set that little [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► that little point of you know it's not [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► going to be in a it's not like this [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► completely straight kind of I step back [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► in time and i'm going to do some things [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► like right away there's somebody [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► standing there saying crazy things [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► basically and then and yellow card man [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► is trying to get money and so we can go [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► buy something at the at the local liquor [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► store i have i thought one of the really [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► interesting things they caught me about [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► Kings time-travel methodology here is [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► that it's very heavily you know sort of [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► repeated that every time someone goes [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► through the time portal and then it is [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► basically resets whatever the previous [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► trip did right you can do is go back and [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► change the fastest change the past as [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► much as you want and when you come back [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► to the future it will be changed but the [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► next time you reenter the bubble it [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► reverts hit the reset as you go back at [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► the same time but yeah go ahead with the [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► exact same moment that's just such a [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► smart narrative can see because you can [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► write yourself out of all sorts of sorts [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► of dead ends or logical problems then [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► you can just read the reset button we [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► need yeah I think that's genius and love [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► this it's also fascinating to because [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► it's so different from a lot of the poor [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► trails of time-travel words you know you [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► know he doesn't have to go back and stop [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► himself from doing something right now [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► it's like a family has to be worked [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► through it and am you know although as [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► we find out very much later in the book [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► it's not necessarily a reset more as it [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► is a fork but but yeah but for all [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► practical purposes it's there's a [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► residue that's left but for all [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► practical purposes it's a reset and and [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► the the downside of that is we see [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► immediately without where Alice dying of [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► lung cancer and al has taken several [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► trips [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► actually it turns out that al has been [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► getting why is the meat in Alice diner [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► so cheap [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► he's been getting in 1915 prices 1958 [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► and it keeps buying the same meet over [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► and over again because he could just [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► keeps resetting but now all spent so [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► much time there that he ages rapidly by [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► modern standards and yet at the same [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► time he kind of hasn't done anything [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► because every time he enters its just a [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► reset so you get the sense right right [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► up front that you're investing um you [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► know you're investing your life in the [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► time travel and if it doesn't work out [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► the way you like it will be thrown away [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► right and it's also important to note [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► that no matter how long you're gone in [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► the past [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► you're only ever gone two minutes in [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► from the present you know when when Jake [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► steps back through the time portal he's [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► only been gone a very short while and [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► the same way that a lonely appears to go [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► away for you know tonight or whatever [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► and it comes back in his you know or [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► five years older [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► this would have been a whole different [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► book if he had written it back in the [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► seventies compared to when he wrote it [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► now [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► and he was lazy and and addicted to [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► drugs and alcohol back then so you [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► wouldn't know what are you survive and [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► not quite that what I was gonna say is [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► if he had written in the seventies it [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► would have ended up being more epic in [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► scope like the stand i think because the [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► stan has this real young man's energy to [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► it i feel this this very brash very [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► black-and-white good versus evil and [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► this book is so nuanced when it compares [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► to what is the greater good vs water all [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► the small goods how do we decide what's [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► good and what's evil and like he has no [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► problem drawing those lines and making [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► those distinctions in his earlier work [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► but you get to something like under the [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► dome or 11 22 63 and there's all these [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► questions about well how do we know that [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► the actions we take her good when we can [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► see that the consequences and the [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► outcomes are bad and it has a more [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► middle-aged i'm i'm taking stock of my [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► life feel to it just just as an [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► undercurrent which is kind of disturbing [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► when you think that the protagonist is [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► somebody in their late thirties early [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► forties he has an arc as an author but i [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► think the be the beginning of this book [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► it i think this is stephen king and his [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► best where he has the the time-travel it [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► doesn't explain that and I got all this [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► you know I there's some sort of these [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► things like an experiment in the [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► government experiment out of this [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► without explanation is it bring this [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► isn't this mechanical I like that [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► there's no explanation because it's what [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► we know you don't get distracted by the [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► formal logic [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► yeah we realigned in the book where he [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► talks about where a Jake talks about [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► going back to teaching and how much it [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► fills of me says I won't try to explain [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► it because explanation is such cheap [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► poetry [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► yeah that for that caught me on the way [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► to say it's a great line and you just [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► like well you know it's sort of you know [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► resonates with this book to we don't [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► need to know why the time travel works [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► only that it does and it's got its got a [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► hint of whimsy to it as well because he [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► loves he loves a little bit of whimsy [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► like that that selling the same [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► hamburger to the people over and over [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► again that's the classic Stephen and the [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► whole how heat so he doesn't want to [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► explain it but how we lovingly describes [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► the mechanics of feeling for the step [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► and going down through that is just [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► straight-up stephen king at his best [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► later on the book i'll talk about [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► stephen king is worst I and a little [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► hint of the slightly older stephen king [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► is the yellow card man because that [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► night [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► it's kind of weird i don't have read [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► nearly as many books as most of the [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► other people who are normal a book club [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► contributors but the vast majority of [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► novels that I've rather probably stephen [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► king books and he's written a lot of [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► books where and when you read this many [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► novels by a single author and especially [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► if you're not as well read where it's [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► not like one of many authors that you [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► read like all their novels I i feel like [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► i'm sure many of his is constant readers [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► feel like they know this guy and I know [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► his bag of tricks i feel like i know its [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► bag of tricks and he knows that I know [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► that he knows you know what i mean and [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► so it's kind of like this dance or it's [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► like reading a stephen king book is like [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► kind of sitting down with an old friend [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► you're going to do this thing together [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► and I continue to get that feeling with [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► this book and the beginning part it's [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► kind of like you remember this part is [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► like yeah yes the good stuff right [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► listen this time travel stuff with the [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► resets and the rules and in the yellow [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► card man it's like all right that's [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► that's an oldie but he's you know you've [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► seen that before what I'm doing that [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► again all right i'm good i'm with you so [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► it was it got off on the right foot i [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► think all right also though I guess even [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► I noticed that there by visiting dairy [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► which is a town that he's used before [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► that this is apparently an it reference [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► right all there's a i was about to say [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► it is a beautiful call back to the it [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► universe which is a beautiful but as [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► somebody who has not read it and and had [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► to look it up later just because it I i [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► was curious about what he might be [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► referencing there I i think i think the [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► dairy stuff i mean i knew that because [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► it was in Derry that it that's a town [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► that he's visited in many of his books [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► but you know it the dairy stuff more or [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► less work for me because the idea is [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► that he's chasing down this first this [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► character who sort of the one with the [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► kid the the janitor at his scoring [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► Dunning yeah who is who was a head as [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► siblings and mother killed by his father [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► and and got the hammer you know that [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► stuff with the where there's the storm [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► drain and there's evil in the town isn't [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► very friendly [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► that's actually I can just say I thought [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► that was effectively creepy without you [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► thinking that it was a reference to a [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► book i did I i agree definitely and like [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► like Jason I haven't read yet but i knew [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► a little bit about it from again for the [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► dark tower but I i looked up some of it [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► and I [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► think what's important about it even if [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► you haven't read it is that there are so [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► much in there that sort of ate a [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► foreshadowing of dairy and dallas which [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► you know keeps coming up those two [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► cities are linked [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► I'm your book depository in the storm [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► drain and even Beverly and and Richie [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► and later on in the book we have that a [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► Mike and Bobby Jill who are sort of sort [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► of parallels there's also you know the [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► fact that when when Jake first comes [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► upon a bevy and Richie they're dancing [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► right which is a u.s. huge part of the [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► book constantly coming up and I sort of [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► think yeah he likes tying stuff in and I [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► think there's a there's a certain degree [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► of that that's that's rewarding for a [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► lot of readers I love finding you know [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► modules and references in books from [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► authors that refer to previous things [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► you know it's a part of the reason i [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► love reading series of books so much [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► because there's a continuity to it but I [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► think even if you aren't familiar in [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► depth with that particular work i agree [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► with Jason that it's it's effective [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► creepy to hold the whole Gary scenes you [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► know that I just really they're just [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► places that are sold with bad juju yeah [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► yeah all this money and it's it was [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► eerie i was reading it a night like [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► before with the bed nose like man I [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► don't really want to go to sleep creepy [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► book i'm surprised that dairy section [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► work so well for you who didn't who [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► haven't read it because that's what I [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► was thinking when I was reading and I'm [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► like okay I get this because i read [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► another thousand-page book but pity the [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► more people who you know need the poor [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► people who don't know I I thought I [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► think the two kids who are apparently [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► characters in it i think our are [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► effective in that they are trying to [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► find some sort of life and are obviously [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► struggling against some darkness in this [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► terrible town and I find I and it's got [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► the dancing which it becomes relevant [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► later and that the sense that this town [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► is permeated by unfriendliness and evil [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► and then you know moving on from the [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► references part of this to talk about [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► the dairy section of this book is also [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► Jake's first first run at changing [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► history where he ended and it [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► foreshadows what's going to happen which [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► is he is very careful to wait until he [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► has all the information possible to you [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► know he has his run-ins with game [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► there's an underworld types which is [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► going to come back later he he has this [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► trial run where he waits to the last [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► minute to try and intercede and prevent [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► the government father for killing the [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► mother and the kids and he does all of [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► that and goes back and then resets and [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► does it again and what's interesting is [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► instead of being there at the moment [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► where this thing is going to happen in [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► order to intercede when he goes back the [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► next time he sort of got all the [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► information he needs he realizes that [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► the father is just a bad guy and he's [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► going to kill his whole family except [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► the one kid and he just he goes to him [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► months before and in like a desert [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► graveyard and just killed him rather [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► than defending the people he just [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► decided I'm gonna go back which i think [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► is interesting but he goes through all [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► of this and then hit the reset button [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► and decides I didn't need all that [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► information this guy's just a bad guy [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► i'm just going to do what he's done all [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► the research [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► yeah he wanted to be sure which is what [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► happens with Lee Harvey Oswald is the [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► jake wants to be sure that there's not [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► somebody there's not a conspiracy that [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► it's just this one guy right one [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► Al makes that very clear he's like you [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► have to be absolutely sure because what [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► happens if you screw up and then [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► president still get shot and then [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► everything still goes to hell or well it [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► doesn't quite jell with the present but [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► what we all assume that the guy who [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► killed his family he wanted to be sure [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► because he's like geez I'm like killing [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► this guy yea he's a bad guy and [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► everything but like is he really gonna [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► kill his family and like is he you know [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► he pissy had to commit you know it's not [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► easy to work it's not easy to work [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► yourself up to kill somebody right it's [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► not until he gets confirmation that he's [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► already killed one family that he [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► actually gets the gumption to go ahead [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► and pull the trigger [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► yeah it's not your first time employee [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► witnesses it [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► I'm once again also have surprised that [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► it works well for everybody else but for [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► people who have read it as Lisa was [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► saying there's extra residents to those [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► characters because you know I don't want [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► to spoil it for people didn't read it [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► but it's not that you're not meeting [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► them [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► I after the events of the book and [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► you're not meeting before the events [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► that you're basically meeting them amid [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► steam at events of the book and there's [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► a sadness to that that [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► you wouldn't get it unless you read that [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► other thousand-page book or read the [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► wikipedia entry on remember that whole [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► thing with someone's mindedness there's [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► a creepiness to that I want to get into [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► it that's all the projects but but but [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► yeah I using dairy is a character named [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► King loves inanimate things as [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► characters houses afterwards towns towns [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► characters and dairy was a character in [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► this book and I think it helped [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► it's a kind of a cheap but it helped the [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► dairy beat at not their help Dallas [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► become more character because analysis [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► has not been heavily featured in past [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► books but comparing it to dairy it's [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► like oh Jesus is like the dairy of the [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► South already move you've already been [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► primed you know you've got a frame of [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► reference that makes it easier to sketch [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► it out a little bit as opposed to happen [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► to go through and frankly do a lot of [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► research the best story and well i think [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► in general [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► Stephen King does a very good job [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► personifying every single town that we [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► visit in the past and makes it very [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► clear this is this type of town in some [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► ka in some ways the people we talked to [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► and the kite like getting the Sun liner [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► in the very first little town in Maine [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► you instantly get the picture that kind [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► of place and dairy you start to get the [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► creepy time-travel ish stuff and dairy [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► and how things can go wrong in the [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► obdurate past and that kind of carries [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► over i feel like it snowballs as you go [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► from town to town to town but he hasn't [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► really really great personification of [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► each town the difference between Jody in [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► dallas and for even for were or if you [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► yeah they're all very clear pictures of [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► each city despite i mean i don't think [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► i've been to I've been to dallas very [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► briefly but aside from that you get a [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► very clear picture of how he wants these [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► towns to look at this point in time [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► yeah I let's let's move ahead then to [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► Jodi to Texas and and specifically to [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► the small town where he becomes an [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► English teacher and I guess he's briefly [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► in Florida but you know that really the [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► important doesn't work out that doesn't [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► work out now and get the sense of he [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► needs to move on before the final and [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► it's a good experience of showing like [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► this time travel thing he doesn't quite [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► have [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► a knack of it yet like he's a good [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► enough to get out of there alive but he [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► realizes he kind of messed up yeah he's [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► always learning the ropes of this [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► time-travel think he's only beginning to [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► understand what he doesn't know and very [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► cleverly by setting the time portal in [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► 1958 Stephen King makes the not only [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► cranks up the UH that the jeopardy of of [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► messing up because you have to live [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► through five years in order to get to [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► the date of the assassination but it [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► also gives him time to have his [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► character moved to this town and meet [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► these people because really that this is [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► what the book is about this is the book [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► is about this guy and the relationships [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► that he makes in the past and while he's [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► got the this mission of his from the [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► future hanging over his head so I you [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► know I think this is a really charming [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► section where you've got these people [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► and you know he's meeting all the all [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► the people at the school in in in Jodi [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► and he sort of accidentally becomes more [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► entwined with their their lives and [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► their culture than he's really intended [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► because he's thinking I'm you know I'm [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► gonna lay low i'm from the future i'm [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► here on a mission and of course he ends [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► up being completely intertwined in the [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► in the life of this small town and [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► because it is a small town and there's [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► nothing he can do about it and he and he [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► gets to know all these people and he [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► falls in love with the do the new school [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► librarian who is Sadie and you know I i [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► really like this part III this is going [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► to be one of those things that I think [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► depending on what you want out of a book [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► like this you may view this as being I [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► don't know I i think people might view [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► this as being an interminable section [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► where he's really not advancing his his [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► mission very much and instead he's just [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► getting to know the people but I [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► actually love this part [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► I think if you think that you're not [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► reading is there something wrong read ya [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► heart the whole point of the segment is [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► to is to set up his personal stakes [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► because remember out picked him because [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► he like well Jake you have nobody here [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► you have no attachments you kind of [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► lightly on this town anyway no one is [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► really going to miss you [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► and then he goes back to the past and [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► there are all of a sudden a lot of [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► people who know about him and his [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► welfare and they won't miss them and [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► they will care and unfortunately this [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► this develops right around the same time [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► that he's got to start surveilling [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► Oswald and carrying out an assassination [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► and I think it raises the dramatic [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► sticks and also shows what other [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► whatever growth he's going to have as a [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► protagonist over the course of the book [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► to its it's absolutely necessary and [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► also sets up that you know I think what [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► manages to be a rather heartbreaking [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► story in in many ways right you know [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► yeah that the the final chapter oh yes [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► even even even before that you know the [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► part where you guys talking it I would [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► yeah i was there that I mean it needs to [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► be an easy that invested right in order [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► for you to feel strongly about those [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► characters and like these carrots well I [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► meanwhile the clock is ticking down [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► right i mean that's the great beauty [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► beauty is you've got this nice story [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► that on it on its own would be a nice [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► story but we know where Jake is really [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► from you know when we do know that he's [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► kind of a rootless guy and he had his [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► alcoholic wife they got divorced from a [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► nice there's nobody to miss him and and [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► now he's putting down roots and he's [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► making these connections and that would [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► be a nice story but you've got the book [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► is 11 22 63 right [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► the clock is ticking and you know that [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► for him to fulfill his mission that uh [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► that everything is going to be there he [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► can't you know that there's an a clear [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► expiration date on his relationships [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► with these people which is makes it that [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► much more affecting for this longer [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► section [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► the reason I think it needs to be longer [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► like this and you thought maybe see [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► people think it was interminable is [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► because it's it is the equivalent of the [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► movie where you have the cowboy go live [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► with the Indians or even something like [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► avatar whatever he's on a mission but [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► the mission takes a long time and he has [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► to become integrated with these people [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► during the mission and he goes no [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► comparison for building the barn and [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► witness the heart of heaven Costner in [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► Dances with Wolves he goes native and [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► yeah the long term missions it's hard to [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► stay on mission for a long time so he [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► ends up is I'm integrating into the [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► native population and learning [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► and then eventually you you wake up and [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► you're Kevin Costner and you're wearing [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► a feather on your head or whatever it [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► may be you know you've actually John [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► you've actually raised i'm not even sure [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► I called a criticism is just something [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► that tickle the back of my head is you [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► have somebody who's in the early forties [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► who is now accustomed to world of [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► instantaneous wireless connectivity with [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► the internet and and a world of cable TV [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► and everything that entails to and your [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► flung backwards to a time where you [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► don't have that many choices and [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► entertainment and you are stuck with the [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► periodic to hear you're stuck with the [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► card catalog the library if you need to [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► find something and it's just a radically [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► different way of living and this guy [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► seems to seamlessly acclimate well and I [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► don't have seamlessly do I i actually [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► think that Stephen King does a pretty [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► good job throughout of depicting the [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► about neither saying oh it was a better [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► time a simpler time [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► no I'm not saying that it's just it's [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► just rather he lives really easily in a [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► period and and perhaps just speaks to [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► the people i know who go into cold [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► sweats if they don't if they don't have [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► internet access for 24 he does he does [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► throw his phone and a pond it's sort of [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► a ceremonial dumping of I i think it's a [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► personality type that because he's that [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► he's an English teacher remember he's [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► not a tech nerd he's not even a geek of [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► any kind you all these people who say [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► boy I think I would be happier in a [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► simpler time out for some of them i [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► think it's true it's just gonna be [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► exhausting trying to remember that you [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► can never talk about the Carolina [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► Panther also keep in mind the gym that [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► uh that al al leaves him a a big file [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► with his research in it which is stephen [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► king's way of not having him have whole [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► scenes where he's incredibly frustrated [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► by trying to remember things that are [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► happening or doing even more research [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► using archaic research techniques sort [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► of just as there's a file so let's he [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► doesn't need to do all that you don't [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► need another the other thing that's [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► really really interesting about this and [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► I thought about what while reading this [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► is sorta jumps around glosses over parts [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► right you know there are a couple points [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► was like I was here for a while that [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► left here from well I left and I thought [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► well that's weird you know like this is [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► really how much of this like closer [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► we're going to get various points here [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► but what's important to consider and you [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► sort of start to get hints for this is [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► that this is all written by him right [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► after the fact [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► right yeah it makes several references [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► to the unfinished manuscript and oh well [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► you're reading this [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► yeah exactly that's totally a dress to [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► people it's totally his recollections of [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► it right and so we learned at a very [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► specific point in the book that he [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► hasn't been as good at blending in as he [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► thought he was right so I think that's [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► that significant in terms of him as a [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► narrator in that not that he's [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► unreliable precisely but that is not [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► ready for my vantage point of that is [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► not like as these things are happening [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► to him right and so he does think that [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► you know it does seem like he blends in [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► really well and certainly there are [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► things that he takes two very much in [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► this in this environment but you know [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► you do get hints of the things that he [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► regresses a couple times was like God I [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► would have killed for have a cell phone [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► right now because I really would have [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► solved my problem it's and i think that [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► the fact that he that he is telling this [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► from some sort of you know after the [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► fact perspective is is very significant [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► in terms of how we see his character [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► the only thing that kind of tickled at [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► me through the jodi sequence as well is [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► first and forgive the clumsy phrasing [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► its kind of the a white male privilege [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► you are so convenient but I know that [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► that's about it it's like I like that [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► guess I thought that was a realistic [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► yeah you know there's there's there's [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► the throw a reference to oh there was [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► the one gas station i stopped where all [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► those poor colored people had to win [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► their way through a thicket of poison [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► oak and gopi over a stream while I got [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► to use the restroom but right but that's [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► also been judging right that's also i'm [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► saying this is beating but but by and [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► large it doesn't affect him directly [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► well but he accepts the other parts of [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► the experience because he's like I well [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► I am a white male [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► so really for a white male privilege how [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► convenient URL was not gonna send a [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► black woman back in time to that work [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► but because not so much like this [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► privilege heat because he's insulated by [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► the privilege I i guess from a narrative [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► perspective it makes it very easy [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► because then you can sidestep authority [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► questions like sure life was great [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► if you're white and male but you know if [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► your if your sale single white female [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► who couldn't [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► can get her own line of credit yeah 1860 [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► how easy or how hard would it have been [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► to be someone like Sadie or if you're an [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► african-american man they still had the [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► camera it's called the green pages of [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► the green book but up until very [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► recently in the u.s. there was a company [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► that actually published a directory of [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► african-american friendly businesses for [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► traveling african-american families [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► because you were talking about a time [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► when people could be turned away from [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► hotels and restaurants nearby have a lot [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► right Stephen King and the good thing [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► about this is he doesn't shy away from [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► it and he has Jake basically I that [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► that's one of the things that he always [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► notices is that is as idyllic as his [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► life is he that this is this is what I [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► appreciate is that he King shows both [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► sides there are things about the [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► simplistic you know why for the simpler [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► life of that time that he appreciates [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► and they're things that are bad and you [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► know it's just different and things [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► about our good and thinks about her bad [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► when we leave Jody and we see him on his [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► mission spending time in Fort Worth and [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► then in Dallas you know he's showing a [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► very different kind of environment [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► that's a really kind of a miserable or [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► unfriendly environment this is the [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► environment that lee harvey oswald is [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► living well and I think he doesn't gloss [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► over how hard it is to be you know an [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► unattached female right like well they [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► say that he has not had things easy you [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► know and i think he goes into a lot of [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► detail about that and about just how [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► miserable her life has been in many ways [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► and I think that's you know she's a [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► great character I honestly I know he [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► doesn't do a great job of amplifying the [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► social pressures and how they could [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► undermine near your support networks [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► because say to you remember after [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► Sadie's the incident that shapes city [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► for the subsequent remainder of the [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► narrative her mother comes out after [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► having carpooled with her attackers [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► parents my mother comes out and upgrades [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► her for four controllers and she's gonna [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► get fired from her job because she was [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► attacked and I can't you can't have that [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► that was that was the killer for me like [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► that the part where I'm like all come on [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► that they really with this really like [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► someone has attacked and disable the [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► school board's gotta fire announced too [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► much of a scandal [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► oh yeah oh yeah absolutely plus I kind [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► of believe that from a small town [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► respective I kind of beliefs and also [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► they're in town abs label yeah I mean I [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► and I think you [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► Oh given that I i feel like i said i [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► think sadie is a great character and I [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► think you know if you don't fall over [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► there at least a little bit while [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► reading this then you probably aren't [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► you know our talk to probably dead [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► you're probably dead inside but i think [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► you know they're I i think you know [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► without making it a book that's overly [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► about look how awful racism was in the [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► South in you know the fifties and [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► sixties which you know there could have [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► been a book there there's never an [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► answer anybody's yessir many books when [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► he could have written that book but you [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► know it was not that book and so I think [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► he does you know the references to it [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► might seem a little glancing but i think [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► they do inform a lot of what the setting [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► of this book is and part of what makes [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► for example Dallas such a disturbing [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► town in many ways is this whole [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► pervading element of that even if it's [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► not something that we're constantly beat [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► over the head [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► I'm actually impressed at how little [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► like the helmet few references to the [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► politics of the age and all of that he [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► manages to slide in but still managed to [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► paint the overall picture of the various [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► towns and the way society was at that [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► point in time because I mean you could [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► have with a with a book about the [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► Kennedy assassination you could have [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► gone much more deeply into the whole [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► Harvey Oswald thing instead you get kind [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► of a third-party perspective of the [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► leaflets and you hear a couple [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► conversations when Jake's listening on [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► the omnidirectional microphone but on [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► the whole there's not a lot of yes this [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► is how people were feeling this is how [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► people hate you know the president this [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► is what why people love the present you [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► skip a lot of that the other than the [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► the Cuban Missile Crisis which is an a [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► nice little worried a little bit where [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► you get that sense of living through it [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► and he's living through it realizing how [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► upsetting it is two people at the time [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► and you know he knows how it turns out [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► hey but they don't but other than that [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► really mean that that's that's the one [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► that's the one that struck me that that [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► that he's watching as as people lived [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► through that and they're very upset on [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► the sexism thing one last time i'd say [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► they did the one on one aspect of it i [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► thought that illuminated Jake's [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► character and I don't even know it was [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► intentional notice that so Jake is [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► from the future and he's having this [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► relationship with past lady and passed [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► lady for all her modernity still is a [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► product of the gender roles of her time [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► and I thought that Jake seemed a little [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► bit too okay with that [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► like that he's yeah you know it's ready [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► but I you would think when I'm reading [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► this I'm thinking boy if I was in the [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► future and I was dealing with a female [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► who was like this I would constantly be [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► saying you know you have rights and you [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► shouldn't you be trying to turn them [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► into the river and liver because like [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► you don't want to put on like not gonna [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► sometimes to you know it's so quite to [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► hear the phrase women's liver it's easy [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► to fall into the role of like well you [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► know what hey this is kind of nice [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► she defers to me it makes me food and [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► that like you're planning a beer [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► yeah that's damning to jakes character [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► or just a general you know the male [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► characters like intellectually you might [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► know it's wrong but when you're in that [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► environment you have someone who's just [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► happy to serve you and you're like what [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► you know what i find it and that's I [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► thought that was a great comment it was [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► whether it was intentional or not you [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► know and again [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► Oh white male privilege you are so [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► convenient yeah responsive think Jake's [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► a good guy but he he doesn't he doesn't [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► protest too much about that although i [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► could just stay here forever and let [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► Kennedy be assassinated and lick this [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► awesome life that I found with these [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► people right and yeah and not worry too [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► much about like Sadie I want you to get [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► away from your horrible former husband [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► but don't you know it's okay if you stay [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► kind of like 50-60 woman you know you [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► don't have to go fully up to believe in [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► your equal human being with me as long [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► as you don't ask me to do the dishes [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► baby whenever he so so what happens [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► one of the things that happens [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► throughout his trip his travels in the [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► past is this sense that the the past [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► doesn't want to be changed right what [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► want to see what does he call it is that [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► the obdurate out here after after it [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► passed which I really liked that I mean [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► we've seen that in time travel stories [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► before but I i really like that that [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► that there will be some degree you know [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► of of resistance from the past and so [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► the conflict in the story isn't [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► necessarily you know jake versus lee [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► harvey oswald it's like jake versus [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► history right vs [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► the timeline versus what actually [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► happened and he has to try and overcome [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► what actually happened and there are a [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► lot of kind of nice moments where I you [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► know terrible things happen to him [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► especially when he's rushing to try and [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► get to dealey plaza on the day of where [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► one ridiculous thing after another [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► unbelievable the obstacles that history [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► keeps throwing it sits like a final [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► destination movie at that point right [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► it's like everything is going to go [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► wrong yeah but I love in previous [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► instances of the book they're very you [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► know he's very frustrated by the object [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► passes like i'll keep continually [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► hitting up against a wall and moving [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► through fog but on that day they're [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► basically just like gap the past is [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► gonna try and stop us [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► let's just roll with it it isn't that [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► their didn't really feel like there were [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► any snakes until you actually got into [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► the building where as in previous like [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► when we had the runs it was kinda like [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► you know when you when you realize that [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► you're you know skating on marbles or [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► whatever it's like is there's no other [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► option right now you just gotta go with [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► it you just gotta roll that you [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► yeah plus the biggest source of internal [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► tension for him was gone because he had [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► managed to convince say that he wasn't a [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► raving lunatic he was in fact the guy [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► from the future meant to kill the [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► president the future and what she was [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► okay with that and you convince himself [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► that oswald was the only deserve to die [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► got ya [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► honestly I think I wish he would have [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► shot Oswald mom too because she was just [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► a piece of work [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► oh my gosh so penetrating Oswald is [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► fascinating because you know i i'm not [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► sure how how clearview people have Lee [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► Harvey Oswald as it as with many books [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► that we've discussed on this on the on [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► this podcast I'm not sure with her [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► whether you know I he did a lot of [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► research for this so I'm gonna just [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► assume that I learned some interesting [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► things about sort of how Lee Harvey [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► Oswald came to be and his and his you [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► know and I thought that was fascinating [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► to get a little idea of this guy and and [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► and to see you can kind of see how we [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► ended up the way he he did but that's [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► not to say that you really have a lot of [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► sympathy for you know what's a little [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► freaky was was reading you know i'm [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► reading the book last night and you know [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► maybe halfway through at that point and [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► talking about a house walls and his [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► family and it suddenly occurs to me like [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► his daughter must still be alive right [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► and his wife are like Google [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► wife isn't really good he's going i know [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► i know i don't like his wife is still [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► but that kind of struck me was like [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► because I'd forgotten that i was reading [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► a historical fiction book that you know [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► but that is about real PDF and so it was [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► kind of there was a bizarre moment of [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► like you know going to bed last night [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► and read the book and suddenly realizing [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► i mean this isn't entirely fiction [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► this is a lot of this is no factual so [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► one of the things again given that this [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► book is called 11 22 63 i think one of [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► the interesting effects that I felt as I [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► read it was as it got started I was very [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► excited about oh he's gonna go back in [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► time and what's gonna happen one of the [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► mechanics of him changing and [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► interceding in the in the assassination [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► and what's that gonna mean and i found [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► after he left [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► Jody and was focused entirely on Dallas [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► as the events got closer that i was [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► struck that I was not as interested as I [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► was in a it in Jake's life and his [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► interpersonal relationships and it's [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► funny and he's piece put it [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► they're all they're all constrained or [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► they're all that you know he's having [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► problems in his relationship with Sadie [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► at that point and he sort of falling out [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► with the people because they found out [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► that he falsified his his records as you [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► do when you're a time traveler but they [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► did anybody else have that have that [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► feeling like by the time I got to the [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► real in-depth like the research and [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► imaginations about Oswald Stephen King [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► had taken me all the way around to where [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► this book that i started reading that [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► was a about the Kennedy assassination by [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► the time it got to the mechanics of the [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► Kennedy assassination I kind of wanted [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► to just go back to the guy who is [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► teaching English in the small town in [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► Texas you kind of know going into the [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► book that even if he does succeed in [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► preventing Kennedy's assassination it's [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► not going to be for the better and that [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► idea kind of builds up steam [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► subconsciously and so the stakes are [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► kind of gone when you think about it [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► whereas everything he does and Jody [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► that's a whole blank slate why he can [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► reset it if it doesn't work out but he [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► can never reset his life right he's [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► experiencing the stakes are so much [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► higher for him when their personal then [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► want this big abstract save the [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► cheerleader save the world type mission [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► and anyone who's read up [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► anyone who's a fan of alternate history [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► or alternate fiction tends to know that [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► these authorial exercises are usually [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► predicated on the notion that history [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► has worked out for the best and this [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► book is is really no exception to that [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► so you kind of go into that with the [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► bedrock premise throwing in the back of [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► your mind and then the question just [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► becomes ok how is king going to write [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► himself out of this where you have to be [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► okay with the fact that he has to let [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► Kennedy died and i think he I think he [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► pulls out a very tidy ending but the [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► fact is that shooting the president has [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► the those have far lower dramatic and [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► personal stakes to somebody who's [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► invested in Jake and Jody the town then [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► you know the the dramatics takes [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► inherent in what goes on between Jake [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► and Sadie and save his crazy ex and the [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► town of Jody you know I mean I could to [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► be frank I couldn't have cared less if [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► it can be got shot or didn't get shot [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► I've got a lot more interesting isn't it [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► is funny that we get to that point [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► though and I think that says something [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► that's about the effectiveness of the [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► story of the king is telling us by the [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► time i get to i get to Oswald I'm more [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► concerned about how dealing with the [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► assassination is going to affect Jake's [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► life about the course of of of history [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► whether whether or not it doesn't work [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► out and and and he ends up discovering [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► that that it isn't this assumption that [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► Alice made that it's going to be better [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► with Kennedy living may not be true so [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► you know so yeah so I i never really [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► made the case for why Kennedy should be [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► saved like it was half-hearted was that [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► we got out i'll make the case to Jake to [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► convince him like this is an important [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► thing to do and Jake goes yeah but you [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► know well would that really made a big [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► difference in our low know what I made a [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► big difference in these kids will be [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► dying in Vietnam and and we would have [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► all this then you must be dying in [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► nuclear holocaust and such like a good [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► it's not much of a case like he hasn't [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► made the case to the reader i think [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► that's valid in some ways right because [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► you know what happens [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► al kills himself before Jay can really [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► nail it down right and in some ways that [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► Spurs Jake into action without really [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► thinking well is this really worth doing [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► or not he's just sort of pushed along by [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► events [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► yeah I think I think you needed I if I [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► had that beginning section of the book I [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► Jake to do what Jake did I think he [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► would have needed [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► stronger motivation was provided to him [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► so by the end when the end of the book [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► comes along obviously we're more [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► invested in a local story and we're like [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► you know what I wasn't convinced that he [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► did decade was worth saving that would [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► make a big difference and Jake didn't [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► seem that convinced them it's like I [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► think it's a failure of the the [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► motivation of the plots successful in [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► that we like Jake's new story and the [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► personal stakes more important but it's [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► a kind of a failure that it's not a big [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► turnaround from this really strong [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► motivation to save JFK cause I felt like [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► very early on and maybe it's also [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► because like Lisa said you know this you [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► know this is not going to be i'll save [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► them and everything will be better you [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► know that's not gonna happen so well I [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► think there's this idea that pervades [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► pop culture or at least pop-culture [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► million baby boomers have a certain [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► stripe that that's the key phrase I [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► think if only Kennedy had lived this [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► golden era of Camelot would have [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► continued through 1968 and everyone [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► would have skipped hands as they walked [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► into the yeah everyone skip would skip [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► hands they walked into the peace corps [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► and the war on poverty would have been [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► affected and civil rights would have [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► happened painlessly blah blah blah and [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► so because Kennedy died everyone sees [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► that this sort of helpful baby boomer [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► Rob productive alternate future going [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► with it [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► it's the flashpoint theory right yeah [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► that's the idea that there is a single [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► event that causes all these ripples [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► whereas i think was fascinating that [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► baby through in the Ray Bradbury's very [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► sound of thunder know where is you know [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► the idea of this originating idea of [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► this butter the butterfly effect whereas [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► you know in theory in this time-travel [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► universe it's it's just as important [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► it's like Kennedy dying is just as [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► important as I'm stepping on a butterfly [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► depending on how you look at it right [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► because they both have ripples it's just [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► a question of what what they they touch [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► but I think to John's point that that [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► Stephen King being older than us and [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► having lived through this and there is a [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► resonance that I think is suggested and [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► that Allah be asleep feels and that [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► Stephen clearly feels that having lived [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► through it that that of course people [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► think oh if only Kennedy had lived I [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► think it's because we're more cynical [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► and that generation became cynical when [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► the president was assassinated that was [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► like the end of the innocence for that [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► generation I think you take that is [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► given that the reason that stephen king [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► he does a little bit of work to say well [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► now here's why it's important [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► Kennedy we should not be assassinated [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► but you know he can he goes in with a [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► little stronger implicit kind of [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► assumption that you know of course we [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► all feel like you know what would have [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► happened and it would have been better [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► because then things got got you know got [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► that whereas those of us who didn't live [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► through that look back in like really [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► with that would have been or wouldn't [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► matter and you get cynical everything we [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► don't we don't buy that line of [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► reasoning about to be another reason not [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► to buy it is when you look at the cycles [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► of human history or cultural history no [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► one idea ever pops up in isolation like [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► ideas get replicated across cultures in [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► certain time periods all the time and so [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► even if Kennedy had been a precipitating [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► event towards this generational shift [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► into hippie demand Vietnam and so on and [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► so forth [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► even if he had lived something else [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► would have prodded idea people seem to [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► forget that Richard Nixon was going to [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► be successful politician the sixties no [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► matter what so 11 sad thing i think last [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► thing I know one thing that bothered me [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► is a when Jake emerges from the portal [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► back into the future after he's done all [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► this and lived this life we see that as [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► we've as we've set up to this point [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► there isn't a good future that after [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► he's changed the past and safe Kennedy [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► there are all these earthquakes and you [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► know nuclear war and the mean is now [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► part of canada and there's not a lot of [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► power they only power a few days and [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► they're hoodlums who were running around [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► with the islands in Canada this can't be [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► teenage hoodlums in canada and this is [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► one of my problems with it is is I don't [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► mind the fact that there's a really [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► quick recap of history from that point 2 [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► 2011 i don't i don't mind that because [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► that is sort of not the point of the [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► book to to detail the old history of [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► what's happened since then [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► what bothers me is it feels it felt to [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► me kinda like a cop out that the moment [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► that he changes the past there are [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► earthquakes and you know count there's a [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► giant earthquake in Los Angeles and [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► things like that get that it wasn't just [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► the past that he changed it was like oh [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► and also this reason you broke the users [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► reinforces tearing their at the part so [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► it's like well I might have worked out [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► it's not like an alright time travel [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► story it's like what you did change its [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► like what you did and by the way of [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► quakes and stuff that are and by the way [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► earthquakes should be that I'd like to [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► have seen the argument that Kennedy [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► would have not made the letter table and [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► was impeached if he had right exactly [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► I don't think that's important i mean i [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► don't think that the Kennedy factor of [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► it is it is important at all what we're [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► talking about it to say that I think [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► it's not so much that you know [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► ok yes he stopped me from being killed [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► and that was a big change but i think [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► the fact that you know there's also this [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► cumulative effect that they start [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► talking about the end right if so many [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► things that I've gotten changed so much [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► has gotten out of balance with all the [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► vowels trips back and forth is the meat [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► hamburger [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► well that's alright and we say it was a [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► yellow card man is bonkers it's been 40 [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► years of beef so everything the whole [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► reality is unstable and again you know [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► not to hurt by too much but if you you [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► know there isn't there is another [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► residence with the dark tower here [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► whereas there's this idea of the world [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► sort of shaking itself apart because [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► people keep screwing with it [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► yeah I would have loved to see more [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► earthquake-type things happening earlier [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► on where you get the idea that the world [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► is slowly falling apart rather than 0 [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► the second JFK guys and right you know [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► Sadie dies everything goes to hell [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► la falls off the coast to have he makes [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► it on a horse race in the horse that he [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► knows is the winner of the Triple Crown [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► breaks its leg right now and it's like [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► oh geez [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► wait a second something is not quite [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► right a little bit he comes back five [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► years which isn't it well you know he's [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► gotta wait five years which is important [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► to the whole plot of the book and [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► everything but realistically speaking [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► realistically speaking at a time travel [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► story if you if you put a single person [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► from the future into the past five years [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► on there is no way that lee harvey [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► oswald get that same apartment at JFK [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► had it goes to dallas at the same time [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► he drives in the convertible was out [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► that's honest there's no way because the [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► the the changes of I mean it's debatable [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► that even if you blink that guy into [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► existence for three secondary tap one [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► guy in the shoulder in florida and [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► disappeared [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► there's no way those people in the same [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► spot well that's where the obdurate plat [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► maps comes in and how you [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► it's how you define you have to have a [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► correcting effect because you're right [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► otherwise things will become a different [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► you know the hamburger meat not being [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► available would be enough rushing [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► everything freaks out right on his last [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► trip back when he starts like oh my god [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► I mean what have I done just by buying [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► you know a shirt or taking is randy was [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► found he was right but ya again once [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► again there's this unseen force that you [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► know whatever this this this forces that [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► since the King loves doing this he never [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► calls the god or anything or tries not [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► to call it God but it's just like me [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► except at the end of the stand the [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► unseen force that's its handmade it's [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► it's him the writer real like a light [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► motif through all of his workers that [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► there are forces beyond your [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► comprehensive and that 20 of you and [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► they had and they have a purpose in that [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► a plot you know I think the one thing [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► that's sort of subtle here that is that [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► it's brought up towards the end of the [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► book but i think it's interesting is not [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► just the obdurate pass but the object [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► itself whereas in theory right Jake says [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► well I can just go back and fix [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► everything I did wrong the first time [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► it's just too bad your shoulder right [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► exactly and but i don't know about you [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► but like you know in some ways that [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► might feel like a cop-out but in this he [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► decides he can't do it and I felt the [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► weight of that yeah it makes you feel [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► tired you just read all these pages [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► well I I'm not just that but i can think [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► about all that he has been through and [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► all having to go through and change the [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► past but he can't change his life he's [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► living his life and that cannot be [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► erased [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► you know he he has to live with the fact [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► that he lived those five years and that [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► can eat can hit the reset button on the [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► universe that doesn't matter he felt [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► like I was on memory and and and saw her [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► be horribly wounded men killed by lee [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► harvey oswald ouch i was done i was kind [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► of rooting for him to go to Groundhog [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► Day it in the beginning of the book of [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► micah it'll be neat if you did the [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► groundhog day think i'm gonna became [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► clear that he was going to do a 1 1 [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► iteration groundhog and dairy and I saw [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► how many pages took him to do that I [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► realized there's not enough room Graham [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► to do it for the rest but I wouldn't [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► perfectly happy for him to Groundhog Day [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► the whole book now see that that would [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► work for me live years when you gone [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► crazy after your number I was not sure [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► that that Stephen King was going to do [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► and say so i decided that since I [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► couldn't change the past i would just go [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► back and meet all those people and live [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► my life in that little town in Texas no [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► I mean iterations like more than once [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► right like five just like Groundhog's [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► Day where the first time it takes a long [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► time and that's a very different book [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► yeah right lost all the weight it would [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► have lost all the emotional weight [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► yeah I will say there's a point at after [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► city dies where he is considering that [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► Jason was like well just you know I [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► could just go back and live in my life [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► and ignore JFK and all of that before [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► yeah but that that moment when he's [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► contemplating that you is the reader [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► just kind of think oh gosh she has I [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► mean can you imagine having to you live [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► through the beginning of the Sadie [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► relationship in the middle of the city [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► relationship and all of that and having [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► to go through all those steps again and [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► also because you see in the first town [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► in Maine where you know that you're [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► basically playing through a script if [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► you can you imagine having to relive [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► through some of these moments and then [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► basically feel like you're on script [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► yeah you will be able to do it now [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► because you're watching doom little [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► children and that he wouldn't fall in [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► love with him thats that's the problem [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► not just because the older but she [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► wouldn't have loved him because he [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► wouldn't have been the same person [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► yeah well I wouldn't know everything [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► that would happen right so you know just [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► you just you know living through that [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► changes he was a person you're not ready [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► to have that romantic like you know [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► you're not ready to make the action [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► that's the key of the book right you [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► can't go back and change the past [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► because it's already been lived through [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► it that way you know that I think that's [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► the that's the conclusion that he comes [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► to write this are already happened in [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► some ways I can't make it happen again [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► even if i'm not seeing it from like the [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► first person perspective so i have to [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► let it be and he you know he makes that [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► huge decision at a certain point to say [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► you know do I save you I go back and [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► spend all the time with love my life or [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► do I essentially you know take the [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► sacrifice and save the larger you know [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► save the world at large as such as it is [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► so in a in a previous podcast i believe [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► the it might have been there Neal [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► Stephenson podcast I I said something [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► negative about Stephen King which is [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► I I I said that you know stylistically I [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► thought that there are plenty of writers [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► who have sort of more more flair and [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► more style than Stephen King and you [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► know he is not a showy writer he is [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► workman like he has he has a style all [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► the all his own but it is very [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► recognizable you could give me a page a [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► Stephen King and I bet without any name [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► on it and I bet you I could figure out [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► that it was Stephen King because he does [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► have a style but what struck me in this [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► story is he he is a great storyteller he [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► oh yeah he is that the thing that sets [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► him apart is it mean he's got [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► interesting world building and he's got [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► an interesting perspective and his style [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► is kind of interesting but he is just a [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► great storyteller this this story these [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► characters i was absolutely engrossed in [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► in in this story and so although people [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► i think beat up Stephen King because he [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► had such success and he sold so many [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► books any rights [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► he's written so many books is John and [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► Lisa can attest he he he really is [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► remarkable at spinning a story and [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► making you want to follow absolutely i [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► will go blue in the face defending [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► stephen king's a craftsman because I [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► think he's a master of the storytelling [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► craft I I think he has a I think he I [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► think he thinks long and hard about the [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► best way to tell a story that's meant as [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► a good word for two because I mean and [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► if you read on writing which is an [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► excellent book anybody who are you [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► should read it's great [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► yes but craftsman also in this is that [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► he is not going to be the most poetic [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► right he of writers he is not he doesn't [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► have that he has a workmanlike in a good [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► way a craftsman you know he is a crap [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► crafter of stories and of language and [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► he knows what he's doing and he does a [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► very good job of it and that that's not [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► to be looked down on because there are [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► lots of people who've written lots of [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► highfalutin pros that has beautiful [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► fragments and beautiful sentences and it [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► and it falls apart as terrible as a [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► whole thing right thinking it has a [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► superb grasp on on the language that he [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► chooses an individual word choices [TS]

00:54:13 ◼   ► because he I know a lot of people say [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► he's worthy but he does a great job with [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► one or two well-turned sentences that [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► will remain [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► your brain indelible um I find his word [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► choices to actually quite economical [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► sometime and very very evocative I mean [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► he's not going to be one of these these [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► pro stylist where you fall to your knees [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► and reference over the the the whale is [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► his his words it's like poetry and art [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► of angels wept you know but it's it's [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► instead you can you can actually see [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► these people and hear them the rest of [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► your head as you have nothing up [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► no that's fantastic you know he doesn't [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► use flashy words but he doesn't tells a [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► good story and stuff like that I and one [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► example comes up from the great [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► literature is like Hemingway very simple [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► writing right but he was you know it you [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► can get a lot of a few simple words are [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► with stephen king of the complaint does [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► not so much that you're not so much as [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► like Hemingway is just that he's corny [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► that is you know kind of ham-fisted and [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► corny and number Donna thing which is [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► classic old-school Stephen King people [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► like yeah but that's kinda like if you [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► don't but you don't buy into that you're [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► into it so the passage that highlighted [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► here is it's corny I it's cliche and [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► it's like Adam when i read it I'm like I [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► he didn't make that up because I must [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► have read that before because it's so [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► corny and it's so cliche but the magic [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► of stephen king and the reason why i [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► think is actually a quite a good writer [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► in his own way I ignoring the [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► storytelling entirely is that you can [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► get you to a point with all his other [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► skills and tools to wear this corny [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► cliche thing that you swear you've heard [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► before like a Hallmark greeting card [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► wraps around it wraps all the way around [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► the corner meter and pops back up into [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► like emotional resonance and you're like [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► that how did he even do that and so this [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► is towards the end of the book it's two [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► sentences where he's a he's writing [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► about how everything has ended with [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► Sadie and everything like that he says [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► hearts don't really break if only they [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► could in isolation if you have not read [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► this book you like this guy's an awful [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► red come on it's not really they could [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► but when i read that line like you got [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► me he he managed he manages to make that [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► line that line their work because of [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► everything that's built around it and it [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► you know it allows you to disable the [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► part of your mind that's going to shoot [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► that those students sentences down with [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► lasers and say this is not good writing [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► sir you need to think hard about what [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► you're going to right now because you [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► think if hearts could break them [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► you'd be out of your misery I know it's [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► a cliché is a hallmark card it's not [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► terrible home with its it's cheap it's a [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► cheap insight right it's a cheap insight [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► but he really earned it [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► yeah I'm right and I highlighted that [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► passage unlike you got me heartbroken [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► character who has lived through this to [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► get to that point [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► mmm the key to this book and we've lived [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► through and we lived it within no no I [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► found the key it's the last page [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► actually um this is the this is the part [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► i highlighted where it says she is in a [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► dream and so am i like all sweet dreams [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► will be brief but brevity make sweetness [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► doesn't it yes i think so because when [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► the time is gone you could never get it [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► back [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► yeah this is a graphic Stephen King [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► where he spent so little time doing that [TS]