The Incomparable

60: Thanks For Everything... Now Go Die


00:00:00   the incomparable Todd test number 68 old [TS]

00:00:09   theater [TS]

00:00:10   [Music] [TS]

00:00:12   welcome back to the interoperable we [TS]

00:00:15   have been for this whole season of the [TS]

00:00:18   BBC's Doctor Who we've been taking time [TS]

00:00:21   every few weeks to talk about the latest [TS]

00:00:22   episodes and now we have reached the end [TS]

00:00:25   the last episodes of this sixth season [TS]

00:00:28   of the relaunch doctor who have come and [TS]

00:00:31   gone and so we're going to talk about [TS]

00:00:34   the last few episodes which we haven't [TS]

00:00:36   had a chance to chat about yet and also [TS]

00:00:37   the season as a whole [TS]

00:00:40   joining me to discuss this well I should [TS]

00:00:43   say I'm Jason smell the host of the [TS]

00:00:44   uncomfortable joining me to discuss that [TS]

00:00:45   this my lovely and talented panelists [TS]

00:00:49   and Fleischmann hi glen IL a panelist [TS]

00:00:52   thank you and lovely and or talented [TS]

00:00:55   John siracusa hi John [TS]

00:00:57   hello Jason in more'n hello Dan [TS]

00:01:00   digestion commute to me with all these [TS]

00:01:02   black tick marks on my arms mean I'll [TS]

00:01:05   explain later and Scott McNulty welcome [TS]

00:01:08   to the podcast yet again [TS]

00:01:10   hello hello also joining me tonight is [TS]

00:01:14   serenity Caldwell [TS]

00:01:15   hello hello Jason glad to be here it's [TS]

00:01:18   good to have you [TS]

00:01:19   so the season the season is over I know [TS]

00:01:22   we haven't talked about the last what [TS]

00:01:23   three episodes though we've got a we've [TS]

00:01:27   got some of that to talk about the [TS]

00:01:28   finale aired this past week I guess we [TS]

00:01:35   have where to where to start I i think i [TS]

00:01:36   want to start with the finale maybe we [TS]

00:01:38   can backtrack a little bit back into [TS]

00:01:40   interesting weekend guess began do this [TS]

00:01:43   in a non linear sequence of time because [TS]

00:01:45   times like that I interesting that this [TS]

00:01:49   was a single episode not a two-part [TS]

00:01:52   blowout season finale like I've had in [TS]

00:01:54   the past their wedding of River Song as [TS]

00:01:58   it was called and i watched it a couple [TS]

00:02:01   of times there's the first time I [TS]

00:02:03   watched I I I like parts of it but I was [TS]

00:02:06   also caught up and sort of what the [TS]

00:02:07   resolution of the plot was going to be [TS]

00:02:09   and i watch the second time and actually [TS]

00:02:11   liked it a great deal more [TS]

00:02:13   more than I did the first time which is [TS]

00:02:14   kind of interesting but I didn't think [TS]

00:02:17   it was kind of a strange episode and I'm [TS]

00:02:19   just sort of curious to start out what [TS]

00:02:22   did you guys think of the other finale [TS]

00:02:25   well I was happy to see the return of my [TS]

00:02:27   favorite character of course i know it's [TS]

00:02:30   ridiculous but I like seeing durham i [TS]

00:02:32   just love that actor and I love the role [TS]

00:02:34   and it's so ridiculous dorium maldovar [TS]

00:02:36   anybody get the new jobby the genie from [TS]

00:02:39   people around show been going there [TS]

00:02:41   oh look at hi mekka hiney ho yes [TS]

00:02:45   yeah i was baltimore and he was [TS]

00:02:46   hilarious even when he was just a head [TS]

00:02:48   in a box reactor ama to when so it [TS]

00:02:51   really all right it's true but it was a [TS]

00:02:54   good thing it will its signal that the [TS]

00:02:55   thing that signaled i think was that [TS]

00:02:56   this wasn't going to be a Daleks kill [TS]

00:02:59   everybody despite how the episode open [TS]

00:03:01   this was going to be a Daleks kill [TS]

00:03:02   everybody Cyberman creepy everyone dies [TS]

00:03:05   the doctor loses a companion horrible [TS]

00:03:08   sort of thing even though it's about the [TS]

00:03:09   doctors def it's opens with pretty much [TS]

00:03:11   I mean shortly and you can pay a crazy [TS]

00:03:14   game of electric bill electrocution [TS]

00:03:17   chess and then which was my great [TS]

00:03:19   benefits great guy out of a Dungeons and [TS]

00:03:23   Dragons ad from 1973 and and then you [TS]

00:03:27   get a blue head in a box that speaks a [TS]

00:03:30   marvelous Sydney Greenstreet toad and so [TS]

00:03:32   you know this is me more of a lark then [TS]

00:03:34   something that makes you freaked out and [TS]

00:03:36   so I mean you know you can't contrast [TS]

00:03:38   that with the episodes in which which I [TS]

00:03:41   think all involve Daleks or something [TS]

00:03:42   like in which stated tenants [TS]

00:03:43   regeneration happened the season finales [TS]

00:03:46   in different seasons the ones where our [TS]

00:03:48   favorite where Donna Noble gets sort of [TS]

00:03:50   her memory wiped and it's like this is a [TS]

00:03:52   different kind of thing I would say well [TS]

00:03:54   it's interesting that Steven Moffat i [TS]

00:03:56   think is deliberate you know he's very [TS]

00:03:57   carefully established his own continuity [TS]

00:04:00   and his own story lines going out and i [TS]

00:04:02   think in a way that you know Russell T [TS]

00:04:04   Davies with the first few seasons he [TS]

00:04:06   very much tried to bring back or build [TS]

00:04:08   on all the pre-existing mythology so [TS]

00:04:11   hence we having you know these climax is [TS]

00:04:13   that involve Daleks and Cyberman and [TS]

00:04:15   stuff that you know where were [TS]

00:04:16   long-running pieces of the Doctor Who [TS]

00:04:19   mythology and now we have this [TS]

00:04:20   interesting you know continuity that [TS]

00:04:23   that Steven Moffat has created [TS]

00:04:25   and I was thinking that the the [TS]

00:04:27   beginning at least of this finale [TS]

00:04:29   reminded me a lot of the episode 2 which [TS]

00:04:32   is kind of a spiritual successor which [TS]

00:04:33   is a good man goes to war the [TS]

00:04:34   half-season cliffhanger has the same [TS]

00:04:37   sort of pacing in that beginning right [TS]

00:04:38   where he's going to all these different [TS]

00:04:39   places and sort of recruiting you know [TS]

00:04:43   different people and different seeing [TS]

00:04:46   different parts of his life and talking [TS]

00:04:48   about different people he's known and [TS]

00:04:50   there are a few references thrown in of [TS]

00:04:51   course to the prior continuity as well [TS]

00:04:53   but they're not the centerpiece right [TS]

00:04:55   there's the sort of garnishing on this [TS]

00:04:57   story that we've been following this [TS]

00:04:58   entire season which is you know the [TS]

00:05:00   doctors death and so I think that it's [TS]

00:05:02   very it was it was a nice one it was a [TS]

00:05:05   nice conclusion or is a nice piece of [TS]

00:05:07   this our kinetic it pays homage to all [TS]

00:05:09   the stuff that came before it without [TS]

00:05:11   while not making that the like raison [TS]

00:05:13   d'etre for this episode let's let's [TS]

00:05:15   reread resurrect yet another classic [TS]

00:05:18   Doctor Who enemy i say that Scott what [TS]

00:05:21   about you [TS]

00:05:22   well I thought that you know everyone [TS]

00:05:25   you're watching this episode and you [TS]

00:05:26   know the doctor is not going to die at [TS]

00:05:28   the end so that kind of takes the whole [TS]

00:05:30   dramatic force from the episode does a [TS]

00:05:33   letter is it is it is it will you want [TS]

00:05:35   to see how he does it the right like [TS]

00:05:37   that's the thing with the doctor right [TS]

00:05:38   make it so obvious within like the first [TS]

00:05:40   10 minutes of how he's going to do it [TS]

00:05:41   they might as well have just winked and [TS]

00:05:44   when he said when the guy said if [TS]

00:05:45   there's anything else we could do for [TS]

00:05:47   you are you doing good for you because I [TS]

00:05:49   didn't buy it and I had I was still on [TS]

00:05:52   my theory of the flesh from you know [TS]

00:05:54   earlier this month and watch dr. are [TS]

00:05:57   being distracted by here earlier [TS]

00:05:58   theories because that was really [TS]

00:06:00   telegraphed you think so i don't i don't [TS]

00:06:03   think so i wouldn't happen I turned to [TS]

00:06:05   my wife and I said well there goes the [TS]

00:06:07   flesh theory [TS]

00:06:08   well no that was my problem still in the [TS]

00:06:10   context of the episode is I think this [TS]

00:06:12   is a felony or but the doctor has [TS]

00:06:14   regeneration energy they showed it [TS]

00:06:16   clearly so how did the robot ever [TS]

00:06:17   created it [TS]

00:06:18   I mean I thought about a regenerate I [TS]

00:06:19   thought about god I mean I guess so [TS]

00:06:22   special effects people on Doctor Who and [TS]

00:06:24   the year 2011 can fake it so what would [TS]

00:06:27   enter the what content you like to be [TS]

00:06:29   able to get all those ago [TS]

00:06:31   what can a robot yes to go ahead Scott [TS]

00:06:33   sorry i just wanted to you know I I [TS]

00:06:35   didn't I I didn't see that one coming i [TS]

00:06:38   guess because I was so far into so many [TS]

00:06:41   other different theories that I think it [TS]

00:06:44   was right in front of me I just had [TS]

00:06:45   never considered that was going to be [TS]

00:06:46   about the way out anyway go ahead [TS]

00:06:48   well I had no theory so you know I [TS]

00:06:51   wonder how he's gonna do it and then I [TS]

00:06:53   that wonder went away almost immediately [TS]

00:06:55   and I was like well okay that was my [TS]

00:06:58   disappointed acknowledgement of how it [TS]

00:07:00   was going to do it but I mean it was a [TS]

00:07:02   fun episode but I don't know it just [TS]

00:07:04   kind of the whole i think the the [TS]

00:07:07   dramatic it lacked gravitas i guess or [TS]

00:07:10   something for me I I just didn't see the [TS]

00:07:12   point of it because i already knew how [TS]

00:07:14   he was he was not going to die so [TS]

00:07:15   there's no point in I didn't know part [TS]

00:07:18   of the episode was because it just [TS]

00:07:19   seemed to make the whole arc bring a [TS]

00:07:21   little hollow for me [TS]

00:07:23   alright John how about you think you [TS]

00:07:26   guys know my usual complain about dr. [TS]

00:07:28   with that they they can't agree on the [TS]

00:07:30   rules of the universe and they like to [TS]

00:07:31   play fast and loose with everything went [TS]

00:07:33   just fine whatever is what they want to [TS]

00:07:34   do i but they made this finale hinge on [TS]

00:07:40   these poorly defined universe rules [TS]

00:07:42   because like the whole season maybe [TS]

00:07:43   after always going to die it's a fixed [TS]

00:07:44   point it's a fixed point supposed to [TS]

00:07:46   mean anything you could you put [TS]

00:07:47   substitute to other words for fixed [TS]

00:07:49   point it would be equally meaningful to [TS]

00:07:51   the degree that they explained it so [TS]

00:07:52   they're very adamant that like all you [TS]

00:07:54   can't you know this is for some reason [TS]

00:07:56   the script [TS]

00:07:57   this is a fixed point and we can't [TS]

00:07:59   change this once you're gonna die even [TS]

00:08:01   though you have a time machine your [TS]

00:08:02   all-powerful blood is accepted and of [TS]

00:08:04   course this episode the turn in this [TS]

00:08:07   episode is guess what it's not really a [TS]

00:08:10   fixed point because river song and [TS]

00:08:11   freeze time and then time will be [TS]

00:08:13   destroyed in blood but look I don't know [TS]

00:08:16   I just do that doesn't bother me because [TS]

00:08:18   the whole life I think the whole idea [TS]

00:08:19   there is that fixed point means you [TS]

00:08:21   can't change it and the answer is well [TS]

00:08:22   what happens if you try and the answer [TS]

00:08:24   is bad things happen it doesn't work [TS]

00:08:27   they change it he doesn't die will know [TS]

00:08:30   they don't change it don't change he's [TS]

00:08:32   there he does all the things that [TS]

00:08:33   happened were supposed to happen no [TS]

00:08:35   one's checking his pulse [TS]

00:08:36   I considered it a cheat but if that's [TS]

00:08:39   what always where I don't know that's [TS]

00:08:41   what always happens though I mean are [TS]

00:08:42   you arguing that there's a time thing [TS]

00:08:44   I don't think it's the central point of [TS]

00:08:45   the phone anyways right in the central [TS]

00:08:47   point the episode about that like the [TS]

00:08:48   choices in the characters and though the [TS]

00:08:50   what their decisions are making no but I [TS]

00:08:52   then don't hang your episode I don't [TS]

00:08:54   care that you have poorly defined [TS]

00:08:55   universe rules if you don't try to hang [TS]

00:08:58   your plot points off of those poorly [TS]

00:08:59   defined rules like you're gonna probably [TS]

00:09:00   define use let them not get in the way [TS]

00:09:02   of your plot but don't make them the [TS]

00:09:04   cornerstone of your plot I mean [TS]

00:09:05   presumably there will be another season [TS]

00:09:06   of the show with matt smith and [TS]

00:09:08   presumably the rest of the universe [TS]

00:09:09   realize hot that dr. that we thought we [TS]

00:09:11   killed like he's alive time you know [TS]

00:09:13   time this is already all happened it's [TS]

00:09:14   not like we're not sequential and but [TS]

00:09:16   here we are with the records of the [TS]

00:09:18   University the doctor died but clearly [TS]

00:09:19   didn't die some robot thing that he was [TS]

00:09:21   inside got blown up but he's fine [TS]

00:09:23   no no but that that implies a certain [TS]

00:09:25   superposition knowledge that which is [TS]

00:09:27   that it's never I think the mythology [TS]

00:09:29   the show there's an issue about how much [TS]

00:09:31   she's perceiving time sequentially [TS]

00:09:33   although he supposedly has something [TS]

00:09:34   extra special knowledge of its own [TS]

00:09:36   timeline sequential as is and is [TS]

00:09:38   necessary access is often sequential [TS]

00:09:41   across how he hops and for other people [TS]

00:09:44   to know that he's dead like he's not [TS]

00:09:45   dead in the university's not removed [TS]

00:09:47   from the universe as with the previous [TS]

00:09:49   season thing it's not like he's been [TS]

00:09:51   erased it's more like at some point the [TS]

00:09:54   doctor dies here's the date of his death [TS]

00:09:55   but they don't exactly the ones keeping [TS]

00:09:57   track of precisely what point the [TS]

00:09:59   timeline is I think that's consistent [TS]

00:10:00   because we got the doctor of course is [TS]

00:10:02   dying across all in time and space all [TS]

00:10:04   the time in various incarnations and no [TS]

00:10:06   one makes a big deal about the Tom Baker [TS]

00:10:07   i have many more complaints about this [TS]

00:10:09   episode we do have a list of grievances [TS]

00:10:13   you would like to know i do so that [TS]

00:10:15   complaint i'm gonna i'm going to reject [TS]

00:10:17   that complaint because i think i think i [TS]

00:10:20   really get any incorrect sir you know [TS]

00:10:23   you're saying well but he didn't die and [TS]

00:10:25   that the whole point of the fixed point [TS]

00:10:26   in time is is you can't change it and so [TS]

00:10:29   how what would happen if you tried me [TS]

00:10:31   answer is you would destroy everything [TS]

00:10:33   in the fabric of the universe and start [TS]

00:10:34   to come apart and that's what he tells [TS]

00:10:36   rivers you gotta do this you know you [TS]

00:10:38   cannot do this this is a fixed point [TS]

00:10:40   that its a cheat in the sense that the [TS]

00:10:43   obvious one which is of course he's not [TS]

00:10:44   gonna die [TS]

00:10:45   there's going to be some way where he [TS]

00:10:46   gets out of it but she still shoots him [TS]

00:10:48   they still put his body on the thing and [TS]

00:10:50   put the gasoline on and so on fire and [TS]

00:10:52   cast adrift in the lake [TS]

00:10:54   the only difference is now we know that [TS]

00:10:55   it's the test selector and he [TS]

00:10:57   no and he's inside and it doesn't even [TS]

00:10:59   affect the thing so there's a cheap [TS]

00:11:01   there but it's not easy to the to the [TS]

00:11:02   rules of the universe i think i think [TS]

00:11:04   that yeah i think its faithful so that I [TS]

00:11:05   think they would not have records been [TS]

00:11:07   dying here is that I could have made it [TS]

00:11:08   not a cheap don't show that don't show [TS]

00:11:10   that someone in the universe thinks that [TS]

00:11:12   this is the time that the doctor died [TS]

00:11:13   not these events happened but this is [TS]

00:11:15   the time the doctor that they never [TS]

00:11:16   showed that I don't think there was a [TS]

00:11:17   reason to show that because we have the [TS]

00:11:18   audience believe he died he gets lit on [TS]

00:11:21   fire everyone could talk about him dying [TS]

00:11:22   don't have the all-knowing we are the [TS]

00:11:24   police of time and we go inside this [TS]

00:11:26   little robots people don't have them [TS]

00:11:27   have a record in their official files of [TS]

00:11:29   him dying because it but there's no [TS]

00:11:30   point in that and it undercuts there I [TS]

00:11:32   mean what if they were complicit [TS]

00:11:33   what if they agreed to keep you [TS]

00:11:34   obviously they were right they agreed to [TS]

00:11:36   keep it secret and create that this is [TS]

00:11:38   this is why not a doctor faking faking [TS]

00:11:40   his death essentially because everybody [TS]

00:11:42   wants him dead so that he and and go [TS]

00:11:45   back in the shadows like he says and I i [TS]

00:11:47   don't think i also don't agree that this [TS]

00:11:49   is something that next year you're gonna [TS]

00:11:51   see that this continuing sort of the way [TS]

00:11:53   that it's always been I think this is [TS]

00:11:55   going to be a part of the recurring [TS]

00:11:57   storyline is that he's trying to keep a [TS]

00:12:00   low profile and not be famous and I [TS]

00:12:01   think this is also Steven Moffat rain [TS]

00:12:03   undo some of the russell davies stuff of [TS]

00:12:05   he's the oncoming storm everybody knows [TS]

00:12:07   him he can just say stop and everybody [TS]

00:12:10   stops because they're afraid of him [TS]

00:12:12   I think I think this is actually also a [TS]

00:12:15   way for them to try to get back to [TS]

00:12:16   stories where he's not famous basic [TS]

00:12:19   laying around and they also they reset [TS]

00:12:21   the clock he's now 200 years older and [TS]

00:12:23   they're playing a molder matt smith i [TS]

00:12:24   mean i don't think that's a subtle thing [TS]

00:12:25   in the episode previous episode with our [TS]

00:12:29   friend Craig which I'm blanking on the [TS]

00:12:31   name of ready the closing time closing [TS]

00:12:33   time a closing time he comes in and he [TS]

00:12:36   is clearly world where he's older he's [TS]

00:12:38   doing his valedictory thing he's not the [TS]

00:12:41   david tennant doctor who spent a hundred [TS]

00:12:43   years running around 40 with Queen [TS]

00:12:45   Elizabeth and being hedonistic after the [TS]

00:12:47   water of mars bars [TS]

00:12:48   this is a different doctor is more [TS]

00:12:50   serious and he's 20 years older and I [TS]

00:12:52   mean I think that is part of resetting [TS]

00:12:54   the universe is that you have a doctors [TS]

00:12:55   now like I've done that I'm sick of that [TS]

00:12:57   almost destroyed the universe again and [TS]

00:13:00   so there's a point at which the you know [TS]

00:13:02   if they've also given us they seated the [TS]

00:13:04   next plot point which are the fields of [TS]

00:13:06   trenzalore [TS]

00:13:08   and at some point that's going to you [TS]

00:13:10   know come up i don't think that's a the [TS]

00:13:12   outside of the mythology and when we get [TS]

00:13:15   to that it will be you know another [TS]

00:13:17   season resolution and in that [TS]

00:13:18   intervening time the doctors gonna be [TS]

00:13:20   trying to keep his mouth shut and we'll [TS]

00:13:22   see what happens now is my other problem [TS]

00:13:24   with this episode story and the the [TS]

00:13:26   question the oldest question known in [TS]

00:13:28   the universe is Doctor Who yeah sorry [TS]

00:13:32   900 years old you know it was dr. what [TS]

00:13:34   happened is time machine is been back to [TS]

00:13:38   the beginning you know remember when [TS]

00:13:39   they went back and riverside message [TS]

00:13:42   hello sweetie as silly as that is i also [TS]

00:13:45   don't mind it because it is it for me it [TS]

00:13:48   works on a on the metal level of in the [TS]

00:13:50   fact that it ends with him kind of [TS]

00:13:51   walking through the dark passageway with [TS]

00:13:53   Dorian's uh head shopping Doctor Who [TS]

00:13:57   Doctor Who and he smiles of natural I [TS]

00:14:00   mean that's that you know that because [TS]

00:14:03   it is the whole suggestion that his name [TS]

00:14:05   and who he really is is relevant in some [TS]

00:14:08   way and that that that is it was said [TS]

00:14:10   actually in a line that i missed the [TS]

00:14:12   first time I watched the episode that [TS]

00:14:13   that the whole idea here is that that is [TS]

00:14:15   something that once it said you know [TS]

00:14:17   these things happen and that's what the [TS]

00:14:19   silence is trying to stop by killing him [TS]

00:14:21   and the funny thing now is that you know [TS]

00:14:23   the silence thinks they've succeeded but [TS]

00:14:25   they obviously have it now before we go [TS]

00:14:28   back to John's list of grievances I want [TS]

00:14:30   to ask serenity Caldwell what she [TS]

00:14:33   thought of the season finale [TS]

00:14:36   you know I actually I i liked it i was [TS]

00:14:41   very entertained [TS]

00:14:42   uh I'm frustrated that we have to wait a [TS]

00:14:44   while to find out what comes next but I [TS]

00:14:46   thought it was you know in comparison to [TS]

00:14:48   the last sort of half part season finale [TS]

00:14:51   good man goes to war [TS]

00:14:52   I actually think i prefer this one [TS]

00:14:55   whereas good man goes to war was very [TS]

00:14:57   hectic and very very much i felt like oh [TS]

00:14:59   god everything's happening at once and [TS]

00:15:01   wait wait new characters and and and [TS]

00:15:05   people and everything that happens at [TS]

00:15:07   once in this episode that all his [TS]

00:15:08   already happened I want but it's calmer [TS]

00:15:10   literally as opposed to figuratively [TS]

00:15:13   yes exactly everything literally happens [TS]

00:15:15   at once in this episode and yet it was [TS]

00:15:17   easier to swallow because you knew from [TS]

00:15:20   the start when they introduced car [TS]

00:15:22   is flying in Devlin's and and [TS]

00:15:24   pterodactyls and you're like okay this [TS]

00:15:26   is obviously something is going wrong [TS]

00:15:29   and they will explain it to us shortly [TS]

00:15:31   which they did but the actual but i felt [TS]

00:15:33   the pacing was much I liked the idea of [TS]

00:15:35   the doctor basically going around in the [TS]

00:15:37   beginning of us and and going to various [TS]

00:15:40   things and be like oh yeah I'm going to [TS]

00:15:41   I'm going to tie up my loose ends told [TS]

00:15:43   in flashback narrative which I actually [TS]

00:15:45   think i like the best words you know you [TS]

00:15:47   have that you have that wonderful trope [TS]

00:15:49   of the soothsayer telling this story to [TS]

00:15:51   the to the king more to the religious [TS]

00:15:53   leaders it was really cool to see them [TS]

00:15:55   twist and play on that and then having [TS]

00:15:57   the Cabal of silence creatures to be [TS]

00:16:01   what do we have a name for them other [TS]

00:16:03   than silence creatures [TS]

00:16:04   yeah there's a silent silent part of the [TS]

00:16:06   silence yeah I'm was happy i think i [TS]

00:16:09   like corpulent actors to some always [TS]

00:16:10   happy to see in mcneese was a great [TS]

00:16:12   character on the british TV chef I love [TS]

00:16:14   him as Winston Churchill every time he [TS]

00:16:16   appears i'm like all good corpulent two [TS]

00:16:18   actors so John there's another two words [TS]

00:16:20   so what we'll say it will say it this [TS]

00:16:21   way that's always on the lake dr that's [TS]

00:16:25   a corpulent actor in time and space can [TS]

00:16:28   change it works I thought I thought that [TS]

00:16:33   seemed with the two of them was was [TS]

00:16:34   delightful with the weather where [TS]

00:16:36   they're fighting off the silence but [TS]

00:16:37   don't realize it [TS]

00:16:38   yes it appears that we are fighting [TS]

00:16:40   something why do I have a gun that's no [TS]

00:16:43   I like that narrative device and I i [TS]

00:16:46   think there have been times when when [TS]

00:16:47   Marquez has played a little too cute [TS]

00:16:49   with the with his his narrative devices [TS]

00:16:53   but in this case I actually enjoyed the [TS]

00:16:55   whole Churchill and the doctor met him [TS]

00:16:58   sort of backing through the story and [TS]

00:17:00   occasionally interrupting for you know a [TS]

00:17:02   moment of sunshine as long as it's just [TS]

00:17:05   a few of them [TS]

00:17:06   yeah yeah that was that and then they [TS]

00:17:09   look up where did you get the pen that's [TS]

00:17:11   my question [TS]

00:17:13   nobody always have markers on them and [TS]

00:17:15   again oh yeah we have no other numbering [TS]

00:17:17   system other than actually not a new [TS]

00:17:19   thing that bothered me the most was this [TS]

00:17:21   binary was the fact that so he doesn't [TS]

00:17:25   in fact tell her his name when he [TS]

00:17:28   whispers in writer and yet when we first [TS]

00:17:31   met rivers on she tells him understand [TS]

00:17:34   it's it's later i was presenting [TS]

00:17:36   presumably at some point in the future [TS]

00:17:38   he will yes it was [TS]

00:17:40   yeah but I thought it would be funny if [TS]

00:17:42   in fact she had she had just told him at [TS]

00:17:45   that point [TS]

00:17:46   look in my eyes I think that that would [TS]

00:17:49   be funny maybe that is his name [TS]

00:17:51   I think the whole you know she's going [TS]

00:17:53   to the silence will fall when the [TS]

00:17:54   question is answered I mean he is going [TS]

00:17:56   to say it and he's gonna that's gonna be [TS]

00:17:58   his name and she's going to hear it [TS]

00:17:59   don't have we're going to know his name [TS]

00:18:02   and that's dr who that's just out of [TS]

00:18:03   sequence but you know what my wife and I [TS]

00:18:06   were talking about this because she [TS]

00:18:07   liked the episode and and she won't be [TS]

00:18:10   on the podcast so she sends her regards [TS]

00:18:11   but uh huh [TS]

00:18:13   she and i were talking about it what I [TS]

00:18:14   said was I feel like I feel like this [TS]

00:18:19   didn't provide me with all of the kind [TS]

00:18:21   of logical resolution i would like from [TS]

00:18:23   from a finale but it did provide me much [TS]

00:18:27   like last year actually with an [TS]

00:18:28   emotional resolution I felt I felt like [TS]

00:18:30   you know the things that mattered to me [TS]

00:18:33   in terms of the storytelling and the [TS]

00:18:35   characters were all kind of ticked off [TS]

00:18:38   at the end I was like yes yes that [TS]

00:18:40   that's all good and I can I can grow for [TS]

00:18:43   you know plot things like why you know [TS]

00:18:47   why build uh Apollo space suit and [TS]

00:18:50   deploy it to kill somebody in the water [TS]

00:18:52   in 2011 and i don't know why that is why [TS]

00:18:56   did the TARDIS blow up last season the [TS]

00:18:58   are we ever going to hear that it was [TS]

00:18:59   are we just gonna forget about that [TS]

00:19:01   because it's it was so long ago now that [TS]

00:19:03   doesn't even remember that it happened [TS]

00:19:05   you know stuff like that it was [TS]

00:19:07   unsatisfying in a way but the stuff that [TS]

00:19:09   you know about the characters and all [TS]

00:19:11   that were much more satisfying [TS]

00:19:13   I i think there's a great thing to those [TS]

00:19:15   that we have to enjoy the day this is [TS]

00:19:18   satisfying is when the silence this [TS]

00:19:21   reminds me of the the thing they say [TS]

00:19:22   Rory they're like [TS]

00:19:24   Laurey Williams who dies oh yeah and i'm [TS]

00:19:29   like somebody doesn't die [TS]

00:19:32   yeah this is the comic relief in the in [TS]

00:19:34   the two-parter i'm blanking on the name [TS]

00:19:36   of the Daleks steal the earth in the [TS]

00:19:38   diver assistant wonderful story Thank [TS]

00:19:40   You and and the prime minister says I'm [TS]

00:19:43   what's-her-name Harriet Jones Ontario [TS]

00:19:46   Ontario who you however yes he asked me [TS]

00:19:49   now oh you are the best comic relief [TS]

00:19:52   moment the silence since that moment [TS]

00:19:54   also we got it we got on Pont Amelia [TS]

00:19:57   part this time which was great and i [TS]

00:19:59   will say just to just to point this out [TS]

00:20:01   and I'll see if the gentleman on the [TS]

00:20:02   panel agree with me [TS]

00:20:03   looks great and I had any problem [TS]

00:20:05   looking about as good as ever look 100 [TS]

00:20:08   not occur [TS]

00:20:09   yeah and like the eyepatch III taking [TS]

00:20:13   off and she's very nicely put on all her [TS]

00:20:16   makeup under her eye patch [TS]

00:20:18   even though she was presumably thinking [TS]

00:20:20   if if you see under my eye black world [TS]

00:20:22   bed and everything she's a mean she's a [TS]

00:20:24   model right he's gotta think she's [TS]

00:20:26   always thinking she's always prepared [TS]

00:20:28   that's right Scott you know anything [TS]

00:20:30   about my eye I loved it I loved the the [TS]

00:20:33   rapport between her and roy i love the [TS]

00:20:35   the drawing of him with the doctor [TS]

00:20:38   tracking up about it [TS]

00:20:40   that was great i love the after she [TS]

00:20:42   saves Rory we should have a drink [TS]

00:20:44   sometime and get married yeah okay [TS]

00:20:46   no the moment I mean that's the other [TS]

00:20:48   thing about this episode is the moments [TS]

00:20:50   in this episode we're all at I think [TS]

00:20:51   great [TS]

00:20:52   I i think the only the only moment that [TS]

00:20:55   I don't that doesn't work for me is the [TS]

00:20:58   wedding on the roof of the pyramids lord [TS]

00:21:02   why was it necessary and yeah yeah they [TS]

00:21:06   don't really mean that [TS]

00:21:07   what is she some help for this universe [TS]

00:21:09   but they didn't do anything except send [TS]

00:21:10   text messages to the Sun they will miss [TS]

00:21:13   you could buy btdub would love to be [TS]

00:21:16   there and busy sorry yeah [TS]

00:21:18   dr. we send our best thanks for [TS]

00:21:21   everything good luck would also die a [TS]

00:21:23   happy death they love everyone everyone [TS]

00:21:26   that there is one doctor who is point i [TS]

00:21:29   mean the point was river trying to show [TS]

00:21:31   him how important he was in that letter [TS]

00:21:33   just walk into this and I tried all your [TS]

00:21:36   friends don't want to help [TS]

00:21:37   cute but you're really important the [TS]

00:21:39   entire universe is almost completely [TS]

00:21:40   destroyed because of a misunderstanding [TS]

00:21:41   right because it's really the doctor [TS]

00:21:43   saying referred no seriously go ahead [TS]

00:21:44   and kill me seriously [TS]

00:21:46   alright I'll tight go ahead it's telling [TS]

00:21:49   me true she's being very immature in [TS]

00:21:52   this section and I think it's funny [TS]

00:21:53   because I think he keeps on trying to [TS]

00:21:55   tell her you know he's like I'm [TS]

00:21:56   disappointed in you this was a bad idea [TS]

00:21:58   and she keeps on looking at him with [TS]

00:22:00   lovey-dovey eyes and look I did this [TS]

00:22:02   also yes River this is younger river so [TS]

00:22:04   yeah I know they did that well when [TS]

00:22:06   she's with her parents and she's acting [TS]

00:22:08   like she's about 14 years old at the end [TS]

00:22:10   and I thought oh she's pitching this [TS]

00:22:12   just right [TS]

00:22:13   she's acting like a teenager she may be [TS]

00:22:14   in a 40 something year old woman's body [TS]

00:22:16   but she's she's perfectly like mom daddy [TS]

00:22:19   mommy's a drink [TS]

00:22:20   how great was that the realization for a [TS]

00:22:23   me that she's the doctors mother-in-law [TS]

00:22:25   nothing else and weather for the wedding [TS]

00:22:27   fallout with a moment all right like [TS]

00:22:29   that's the way down her face [TS]

00:22:33   yeah but I mean I feel like the doctor [TS]

00:22:35   kind of had to marry hurt get her to [TS]

00:22:38   agree to do anything which was a weird [TS]

00:22:41   kind of it was a weird plot device [TS]

00:22:43   that's how i got married but oh so much [TS]

00:22:46   haha ah but the universe is ok it was [TS]

00:22:49   worth it [TS]

00:22:50   we're not really married the right [TS]

00:22:51   because it isn't was there an old [TS]

00:22:53   handsome man wife [TS]

00:22:54   that's right isn't a bad wife I find the [TS]

00:22:56   whole time lord things you have to tell [TS]

00:22:58   your name and he didn't do that [TS]

00:23:00   so which is funny because I i read [TS]

00:23:02   somewhere that someone complaining about [TS]

00:23:03   the fact that well you know she's trying [TS]

00:23:06   to do river justifies a me not being a [TS]

00:23:08   murderer because it was in a different [TS]

00:23:09   timeline that never happened yet she [TS]

00:23:10   still claims she's married however I [TS]

00:23:12   think agreeing with Glen's point agree [TS]

00:23:15   with Glen's point that she's you know [TS]

00:23:16   this is not that there's nothing wrong [TS]

00:23:18   with that like right of course it's [TS]

00:23:20   irrational i think it's it's willfully [TS]

00:23:21   irrational because she is a teenager [TS]

00:23:23   it's like wow yeah okay but the things [TS]

00:23:25   that matter are still true [TS]

00:23:27   I get to kiss him and John before we [TS]

00:23:30   move on talking about the rest of the [TS]

00:23:32   season and the other couple of episodes [TS]

00:23:33   would you like to unload a few more of [TS]

00:23:35   here at think that utilizes rapid-fire [TS]

00:23:37   like like your fire machine-gun a bunch [TS]

00:23:39   of cider I tradition court ones so the [TS]

00:23:42   wedding ceremony we just discussed [TS]

00:23:44   yeah they have the scene where she's [TS]

00:23:46   very like you know the whole universe [TS]

00:23:47   can be destroyed as it were that [TS]

00:23:49   whatever her [TS]

00:23:50   our ultimatum thing and she goes yeah [TS]

00:23:51   yes it is like we have like don't read [TS]

00:23:54   previously they had they had river in [TS]

00:23:57   their relationship kind of like there [TS]

00:23:59   was this unseen depth roads all off [TS]

00:24:00   camera we didn't know we had been privy [TS]

00:24:03   to this information you know that we [TS]

00:24:04   knew they met each other and they have [TS]

00:24:05   this romance or something we never saw [TS]

00:24:07   it but at this point we've seen them [TS]

00:24:08   interact so many different stages in the [TS]

00:24:10   timeline that and I was still not sold [TS]

00:24:12   on this great love the worst also yes [TS]

00:24:14   they have the conjugal visits in jail [TS]

00:24:15   repeatedly or whatever you know that [TS]

00:24:17   they hinted at there's still stuff off [TS]

00:24:18   camera that we're not seeing the when [TS]

00:24:20   did this relationship formed between [TS]

00:24:21   them that's romantic [TS]

00:24:23   I get more of a romantic vibe from from [TS]

00:24:25   Rory and Amy than I do from those not [TS]

00:24:26   that I'm saying that there they did a [TS]

00:24:27   bad job or wasn't scripted but you can't [TS]

00:24:29   sell the season ending in a moment on I [TS]

00:24:33   love you so much I want to destroy the [TS]

00:24:35   universe well sorry you didn't you [TS]

00:24:37   didn't convince me of that I didn't get [TS]

00:24:39   in find well it's an obsession isn't it [TS]

00:24:41   it's I mean she's been indoctrinated [TS]

00:24:43   basically right now [TS]

00:24:45   uh-huh she's been indoctrinated to kill [TS]

00:24:48   the doctor and then it swaps over [TS]

00:24:50   basically once he frees her in my [TS]

00:24:52   apologies that was an inadvertent yes I [TS]

00:24:55   thought they were trying to pay more [TS]

00:24:57   sincere than that but I don't know so [TS]

00:24:58   that that ever did not ring true for me [TS]

00:25:01   also where she had a sequence of the [TS]

00:25:02   relationship right i think it's early so [TS]

00:25:04   she's sort of maybe they're gonna grow [TS]

00:25:06   in that relationship is always off [TS]

00:25:08   camera we never get to see that romance [TS]

00:25:10   just always assumed to be happening [TS]

00:25:12   we may see it in the future when you're [TS]

00:25:13   not gonna have a full episode of ramen [TS]

00:25:16   like really but they had a false two [TS]

00:25:18   full seasons of already got the doctor's [TS]

00:25:20   wife was as close as we got that I I [TS]

00:25:22   wouldn't i mean i-i other than the fact [TS]

00:25:25   that I don't think alex kingston was [TS]

00:25:27   interested because she's got up [TS]

00:25:28   she's got a daughter in the u.s. you [TS]

00:25:31   know they get big and put her in the [TS]

00:25:33   show for a year and then be like see ya [TS]

00:25:35   now we'll get those adventures but i [TS]

00:25:36   don't think they ever will I think she [TS]

00:25:38   will always this is what river song is [TS]

00:25:40   made for she pops in and and there's a [TS]

00:25:42   lot of stuff that sort of off-camera [TS]

00:25:43   that you just have to take on faith and [TS]

00:25:45   all right John [TS]

00:25:46   what else what else you got for us so [TS]

00:25:48   usually they have at the end of the [TS]

00:25:50   season they like to put the universe or [TS]

00:25:51   at the very least the earth in peril [TS]

00:25:53   that's the thing right [TS]

00:25:54   yeah and this new thing so this time I [TS]

00:25:57   thought it was an interesting idea to [TS]

00:25:58   say we're going to put the doctor in [TS]

00:26:01   peril is not the universe is not the [TS]

00:26:02   earth is just the doctor [TS]

00:26:03   the personal story about him it's his [TS]

00:26:05   crisis right they still have to go on to [TS]

00:26:08   say like well it's not just dr. because [TS]

00:26:09   the doctor goes away that puts the [TS]

00:26:11   universe in peril because the universe [TS]

00:26:12   needs the doctor can't they just have it [TS]

00:26:14   as a nice season about him personally [TS]

00:26:16   that's not enough at stake of a I I [TS]

00:26:19   thought they'd waffled on I i hear ya I [TS]

00:26:20   hear you on that uh and that actually [TS]

00:26:23   something that I thought which is it's [TS]

00:26:24   actually similar structure the last [TS]

00:26:26   season's finale where there's kind of an [TS]

00:26:27   alternate universe that's created [TS]

00:26:29   because weird time things and people are [TS]

00:26:31   in there and then it has to get fixed [TS]

00:26:33   that the difference though this time [TS]

00:26:35   which i thought was funny and there's a [TS]

00:26:36   nice moment where this comes up is we're [TS]

00:26:39   talking about what's wrong and the [TS]

00:26:41   doctor says it's because i'm alive so [TS]

00:26:44   the universe is broken now because he [TS]

00:26:46   hasn't died not because he has and [TS]

00:26:49   that's that's a nice twist because [TS]

00:26:50   you're right they have many times [TS]

00:26:52   they've done be you know we've got to [TS]

00:26:54   say the doctor to save the universe and [TS]

00:26:56   now it's like know you've gotta kill the [TS]

00:26:57   doctor and they probably could have done [TS]

00:26:59   more with that right i mean he you know [TS]

00:27:03   they're there but you know it make sure [TS]

00:27:05   they could have gone a different way [TS]

00:27:06   with it but but I did think that was [TS]

00:27:08   interesting even though it did seem a [TS]

00:27:09   little bit reminiscent of the Big Bang [TS]

00:27:11   from last year with the whole alternate [TS]

00:27:13   history thing it was nice eternal [TS]

00:27:15   stickers again now plugging his book on [TS]

00:27:17   the BBC morning you know Meredith Vieira [TS]

00:27:20   years obviously people while she was she [TS]

00:27:23   was there with the today show and they [TS]

00:27:25   did like a thing from the set and so [TS]

00:27:26   they put her in the episode [TS]

00:27:27   apparently that's the same way we don't [TS]

00:27:29   know who these British celebrities are [TS]

00:27:30   they don't know who are right the guys [TS]

00:27:32   interviewing Charles Dickens reason and [TS]

00:27:33   that is a great segue into closing time [TS]

00:27:37   the previous episode which yours James [TS]

00:27:39   Corden back is Craig from the larger [TS]

00:27:42   which is one of my favorite episodes of [TS]

00:27:44   last season and my understanding see [TS]

00:27:46   where a bunch of Americans here [TS]

00:27:48   my understanding is that James Corden [TS]

00:27:50   who's got a famous popular sitcom i [TS]

00:27:53   guess in the UK and lots of people [TS]

00:27:55   really hate him at because they don't [TS]

00:27:57   like a show animal and i have no idea [TS]

00:27:59   what else he's done but I love him and [TS]

00:28:02   the as craig and the rapport with with [TS]

00:28:05   Matt's miss delightful this whole [TS]

00:28:07   episode was delightful is a delight [TS]

00:28:09   oh he's so adorable and it shows once [TS]

00:28:12   again that the Cyberman are the worst [TS]

00:28:13   villains and Doctor Who and they know [TS]

00:28:15   we're not around and they know it right [TS]

00:28:17   i mean that's the thing about this [TS]

00:28:19   episode is that it's like well we got a [TS]

00:28:21   comedy episode we Cybermen kinda looks [TS]

00:28:23   scary but they're useless so we'll just [TS]

00:28:26   have to be useless like all right I [TS]

00:28:28   guess you mean the scariest villain in [TS]

00:28:29   the episode was the little like [TS]

00:28:30   cyber-render what is happening with the [TS]

00:28:33   matter rat with you real mouth poorly [TS]

00:28:38   composited real mouth i like to call him [TS]

00:28:40   buddy yeah yeah yeah this whole episode [TS]

00:28:42   was great that the doctor's report with [TS]

00:28:44   Craig is awesome i love the first scene [TS]

00:28:47   with I'm back [TS]

00:28:48   you've redecorated i see i don't like it [TS]

00:28:50   we moved into a new house the previous [TS]

00:28:54   pitch up at the picture fantasy league [TS]

00:28:55   pitch episode I've got to say there's [TS]

00:28:57   parts of this is like the doctor and [TS]

00:28:59   Craig they live together and become you [TS]

00:29:01   know it's like it's like you're seeing [TS]

00:29:03   like a sitcom I could do a 20-minute [TS]

00:29:04   version of this every week fighting [TS]

00:29:07   pantomime villain that would be an [TS]

00:29:08   enjoyable said come to watch I have to [TS]

00:29:10   admit we called the pantomime doctor I [TS]

00:29:12   speak baby by the way right that will [TS]

00:29:15   finish today little black yeah there was [TS]

00:29:17   a man that wasn't mentioned it earlier i [TS]

00:29:19   can remember when but I suppose it's now [TS]

00:29:21   the pond right now melody pond right in [TS]

00:29:23   a good man goes to work right right [TS]

00:29:25   right for me i don't know that i love [TS]

00:29:27   the I love the shape [TS]

00:29:29   Shh oh yeah sure another life for ya [TS]

00:29:32   you know what I mean no no not all of [TS]

00:29:35   them just certain ones i mean i like [TS]

00:29:37   that it works on Craig in particular [TS]

00:29:38   right just once but it doesn't really [TS]

00:29:40   work for bunch of time I love actually [TS]

00:29:42   one of the things I love about I see [TS]

00:29:43   that episode where the get a sci-fi plot [TS]

00:29:45   is really not necessary it's their door [TS]

00:29:49   aspects of gather have to this right is [TS]

00:29:51   there to be there but some of the it's [TS]

00:29:54   just funny and sweet and there's some [TS]

00:29:55   moments that are really nice and i like [TS]

00:29:57   i love the fact that the doctor gets a [TS]

00:29:59   job at the department store employee and [TS]

00:30:01   also lined up with the name tag that [TS]

00:30:02   says the doctors don't I asked the [TS]

00:30:04   doctor because that people buy but uh [TS]

00:30:06   that everybody who works at the [TS]

00:30:08   department store loves him and this is [TS]

00:30:10   why don't you let you know your five [TS]

00:30:13   they would [TS]

00:30:14   it's like how does he do that with this [TS]

00:30:15   power rake trying to get information was [TS]

00:30:18   just the funniest because you could see [TS]

00:30:20   he was being very earnest but at the [TS]

00:30:22   same time so creepy [TS]

00:30:24   look at my baby isn't keeping you every [TS]

00:30:26   time I picture this episode of my mind I [TS]

00:30:28   see Andy Richter instead of whoever this [TS]

00:30:29   probably could do it in two [TS]

00:30:32   interchangeable I've mapped i have [TS]

00:30:34   mapped in American celebrity on that [TS]

00:30:35   he's a little more sad sack then it than [TS]

00:30:37   any rare but yes I can't get that image [TS]

00:30:40   out of my head [TS]

00:30:41   thanks John it and this is a case where [TS]

00:30:45   I'm not gonna complain about the stupid [TS]

00:30:46   Cyberman plot because it was so clearly [TS]

00:30:48   not important to the episode in fact i [TS]

00:30:51   would have liked it if they remove that [TS]

00:30:53   plot you're not going to complain about [TS]

00:30:54   the fact that the doctor says the ship [TS]

00:30:56   is containing the explosion when they [TS]

00:30:58   clearly show the explosion happening [TS]

00:30:59   outside the show back that I think [TS]

00:31:01   there's a ship or why was it done there [TS]

00:31:03   it's just buried in material and save [TS]

00:31:07   was power a well-loved and there's also [TS]

00:31:10   some kind of love this is cute [TS]

00:31:11   this is acually the business in the [TS]

00:31:13   subsidy yeah maybe saved by love I what [TS]

00:31:16   I like about that and it's something the [TS]

00:31:17   doctor who has done going back to that [TS]

00:31:19   first episode of the reboot with the how [TS]

00:31:22   do we kill them being a living plastic [TS]

00:31:23   well you just use anti plastic that this [TS]

00:31:26   was like that where the doctor says well [TS]

00:31:29   no you didn't really say from with love [TS]

00:31:31   their it's very it's much more technical [TS]

00:31:34   and yeah nevermind yeah sure you save [TS]

00:31:36   him with love I love that because it's [TS]

00:31:38   it's the show say it's really not [TS]

00:31:40   important [TS]

00:31:41   it sure [TS]

00:31:42   just yes it was loved one hour it goes [TS]

00:31:45   back to this whole Steven Moffat run [TS]

00:31:47   being more of a fairy tale than [TS]

00:31:48   scientific right right [TS]

00:31:50   the logic is not as important or the [TS]

00:31:52   science-fiction aspects are not as [TS]

00:31:54   important as they were in previous [TS]

00:31:56   iterations for sure everyone and I like [TS]

00:31:59   that I like that in fact as John said [TS]

00:32:01   cyber better in it you know the ship [TS]

00:32:04   kinda looks cool and they got to reuse [TS]

00:32:06   the set i think from a good man goes to [TS]

00:32:08   war right and just dirty it up and and [TS]

00:32:11   they're pointless and so there you there [TS]

00:32:14   used his assessment is there's the funny [TS]

00:32:16   they get the funny scene where he has [TS]

00:32:18   Craig not turn around because they have [TS]

00:32:20   teleported out of the elevator and into [TS]

00:32:22   the cyber ship and lets you know that [TS]

00:32:24   he's really good that's what their yeah [TS]

00:32:26   that's a good use of the cyber bullying [TS]

00:32:28   cranks interested that's the great part [TS]

00:32:29   Craig is tempted [TS]

00:32:30   he's like really well no I can't take it [TS]

00:32:33   that you have been a doctor was awesome [TS]

00:32:36   but no it wasn't all that surprised [TS]

00:32:39   um I thought the biggest problems [TS]

00:32:40   episode is really night terrors was it [TS]

00:32:43   which we all sort of wonder if we all [TS]

00:32:44   hate it i did not like night terrors [TS]

00:32:45   very much i was what i was the only [TS]

00:32:47   defender yeah yeah I sort of liked it it [TS]

00:32:50   had but it was like it was about 10 [TS]

00:32:51   minutes of a longer episode that they [TS]

00:32:53   ran to 44 in this case you have the [TS]

00:32:55   closing time was probably the complete [TS]

00:32:57   realization of it three-dimensional [TS]

00:32:58   characters you care about the baby you [TS]

00:33:00   care about Craig there's a laughable [TS]

00:33:02   threat but it's still Craig has to [TS]

00:33:04   defend himself yesterday you know be a [TS]

00:33:07   father and step into the role and so [TS]

00:33:09   forth and it was very very funny too [TS]

00:33:11   I had one issue with this episode and [TS]

00:33:13   yes it was I thought the the idea you [TS]

00:33:16   could have been in the Craig role to III [TS]

00:33:19   do i am a husky fellow so i could have [TS]

00:33:21   stepped in [TS]

00:33:22   should-should no one else to be [TS]

00:33:24   available but how do you work anywhere [TS]

00:33:27   baby you should through I very carefully [TS]

00:33:33   exactly i don't think i get Alicia slide [TS]

00:33:35   I thought the the so was only like you [TS]

00:33:37   know a minute but of having Amy and Rory [TS]

00:33:39   in the department store and then having [TS]

00:33:41   apparently a me being the spokesperson [TS]

00:33:43   for perfume or was there you go that's [TS]

00:33:46   petrichor just a little bit [TS]

00:33:49   that's very nice that was unneeded [TS]

00:33:50   unnecessary what I well what I liked [TS]

00:33:53   about it is that is that the doctor sees [TS]

00:33:55   them he's [TS]

00:33:55   wants to talk to them and he had made [TS]

00:33:58   the decision to not not see them and [TS]

00:34:01   it's obviously been years two and he he [TS]

00:34:04   turns away and doesn't see them and I I [TS]

00:34:07   kind of liked that it was strange to [TS]

00:34:09   have it in that episode but given that [TS]

00:34:10   it's the one episode where we don't have [TS]

00:34:12   Amy and Rory and it was strategic oh [TS]

00:34:14   there they are and they're getting on [TS]

00:34:17   with their lives and he's just gonna [TS]

00:34:18   back away [TS]

00:34:20   I i think that expected aspect of it [TS]

00:34:22   didn't catch me you know yeah which was [TS]

00:34:24   kind of interesting and she's signing an [TS]

00:34:25   autograph why is she signing an [TS]

00:34:27   autograph [TS]

00:34:27   no she's and then we see this you know I [TS]

00:34:31   kind of I kind of liked it only because [TS]

00:34:34   we do drop them off in the with the [TS]

00:34:36   previous episode and it's nice to have a [TS]

00:34:39   little bit of call back there and see a [TS]

00:34:41   they're doing ok without him and I think [TS]

00:34:43   that's the real sort of book plz it's a [TS]

00:34:46   it's a positive thing and a blow at the [TS]

00:34:48   same time because he doesn't he wants to [TS]

00:34:49   start and walk over to them and then [TS]

00:34:52   then he stops when he sees the autograph [TS]

00:34:54   and he stops when he sees no she's doing [TS]

00:34:57   well and oh they're happy and maybe I [TS]

00:34:59   shouldn't interfere and it's part of [TS]

00:35:00   this whole continuum we're starting with [TS]

00:35:02   the previous episode where he drops them [TS]

00:35:04   off and then going through this going [TS]

00:35:05   through stuff with Craig you know and [TS]

00:35:07   realizing you know this is he's coming [TS]

00:35:10   to the end of this road and then the [TS]

00:35:11   stuff in the beginning of the final [TS]

00:35:14   finale where not only does he talk sort [TS]

00:35:16   of about going to visit everybody you [TS]

00:35:18   know but he also he calls up the the [TS]

00:35:21   Brigadier short huh yeah they get that [TS]

00:35:25   tip of the head into the fact that the [TS]

00:35:27   actor passed away earlier this year and [TS]

00:35:29   but that's sort of what tips them over [TS]

00:35:30   the edge where he starts to realize you [TS]

00:35:33   know I think and I think there's a [TS]

00:35:34   continuum there right he he did leave [TS]

00:35:35   these people behind for a reason right [TS]

00:35:38   that will I'm sure get into in a moment [TS]

00:35:40   but it and this is all played into his [TS]

00:35:43   decision to go you know to go through [TS]

00:35:47   with this whole plan that he has I think [TS]

00:35:49   we all have positive feelings about [TS]

00:35:51   about closing time it was not a [TS]

00:35:52   complaint and I want to have a complaint [TS]

00:35:54   ok go for it oh no one complained [TS]

00:35:57   perhaps Oh John don't squander it so [TS]

00:35:59   this is like a lot more of a meta [TS]

00:36:00   complaint with this episode when it [TS]

00:36:02   started I thought oh this is going to be [TS]

00:36:04   an episode about Craig kinda like how [TS]

00:36:05   the larger ones like centered on him and [TS]

00:36:07   the doctor was there but it was [TS]

00:36:09   it was centered on non-doctor characters [TS]

00:36:10   they do those episodes occasionally I [TS]

00:36:12   and when I see episodes like that i was [TS]

00:36:15   compared to my head to the best [TS]

00:36:17   non-doctor center and episode link here [TS]

00:36:20   the best episode of the show i know i [TS]

00:36:23   know it is kind of unfair but it's it's [TS]

00:36:25   amazing to think that this episode that [TS]

00:36:27   everybody loves is not heavy on doctor [TS]

00:36:30   or anything like this nice still clearly [TS]

00:36:31   a doctor who episode so I thought they [TS]

00:36:33   might have gone in that direction with [TS]

00:36:34   this and that's where I see like the [TS]

00:36:36   Rory and Amy showing up as like them [TS]

00:36:38   under cutting themselves like you can do [TS]

00:36:40   an episode just Craig or maybe even just [TS]

00:36:41   Craig in the doctor don't bring those [TS]

00:36:43   guys back in because it doesn't seem [TS]

00:36:45   like they have the guts to they wouldn't [TS]

00:36:46   have the guts to a blink like episode [TS]

00:36:47   anymore was people would say where's [TS]

00:36:49   worried were not think so i think that [TS]

00:36:51   was part of the overarching plot i think [TS]

00:36:53   there's that was deliberate [TS]

00:36:54   I mean it was yeah i mean we're talking [TS]

00:36:55   about the penultimate episode know that [TS]

00:36:57   I mean after the late great is a weird [TS]

00:36:59   placement for this thing but when I saw [TS]

00:37:00   the episode reminded me of those ones [TS]

00:37:02   the ones that i like but occasionally [TS]

00:37:04   you could do an episode without those [TS]

00:37:05   people and just have an interesting [TS]

00:37:06   sci-fi stories it's almost as if doctor [TS]

00:37:08   who and his companions 10 min for making [TS]

00:37:11   the interesting sci-fi stories did ya [TS]

00:37:13   might want to say so what I've done the [TS]

00:37:14   last couple years is break those into [TS]

00:37:16   and so this year with what you had was [TS]

00:37:18   the girl who waited where the doctor [TS]

00:37:20   basically is only in one scene outside [TS]

00:37:23   of the tartness and the rest of it is [TS]

00:37:24   Amy and Rory and and then the other half [TS]

00:37:28   of it is this episode good at closing [TS]

00:37:31   time where Amy and Rory are only in one [TS]

00:37:33   scene and presumably I think these two [TS]

00:37:36   episodes were shot in parallel so that [TS]

00:37:38   their they could Bank two episodes at [TS]

00:37:40   once I say I'm whereas with blink they [TS]

00:37:43   that you know the doctor and Martha are [TS]

00:37:45   into scenes and you know they shot it [TS]

00:37:47   concurrently so they've done this [TS]

00:37:49   companion light episode in a doctor [TS]

00:37:51   light episode and that's what the larger [TS]

00:37:52   was the larger last year was also the [TS]

00:37:55   doctor will pay me as well as Amy she [TS]

00:37:57   was only ever on the TARDIS so it is [TS]

00:38:00   kind of like but it is off format a [TS]

00:38:02   little bit and you're right i think i [TS]

00:38:04   think when the show goes off format it [TS]

00:38:05   is it gets really interesting and that [TS]

00:38:09   they should be you know 30 today they [TS]

00:38:12   generally do about one season I wanted [TS]

00:38:14   to but it's good and like that like [TS]

00:38:16   Blake is the best example John and I've [TS]

00:38:18   said to people like a Twilight Zone [TS]

00:38:20   episode you don't even need to know [TS]

00:38:21   anything about [TS]

00:38:22   doctor-who to enjoy blink because you [TS]

00:38:24   know it's not really relevant to the [TS]

00:38:27   show's continuity in fact the doctor is [TS]

00:38:29   barely and he's just some guy with a [TS]

00:38:31   time you can also argue that they're [TS]

00:38:33   setting it up to provide for the [TS]

00:38:36   opportunity to do more of these sort of [TS]

00:38:37   standalone episodes now the doctor is [TS]

00:38:39   underground and not technically living [TS]

00:38:42   by the University standards right but [TS]

00:38:45   he's still alive did not clearly showing [TS]

00:38:48   this in closing time that when we walked [TS]

00:38:50   out of cine IBM fell from the roof and [TS]

00:38:52   killed into that was gonna say yeah and [TS]

00:38:55   they're just outside he was struck by a [TS]

00:38:57   car outside [TS]

00:38:58   yeah exactly so so let's talk about [TS]

00:39:00   let's talk at least briefly about the [TS]

00:39:03   god complex which is the i have [TS]

00:39:04   complaints about the god complex so [TS]

00:39:06   totally hotel somehow it's the Hotel [TS]

00:39:08   California episode [TS]

00:39:10   oh yeah it's it's a it's a shining [TS]

00:39:12   episode it's the star trek hollow shed [TS]

00:39:14   goes crazy episode practically when [TS]

00:39:18   taking it at face value this episode was [TS]

00:39:21   was interesting and kind of fun it's [TS]

00:39:24   like okay you know monsters and they're [TS]

00:39:26   chasing around the hotel and then once [TS]

00:39:28   they got to like the last year once they [TS]

00:39:30   got to the last five minutes at ten [TS]

00:39:31   minutes they're trying to explain what [TS]

00:39:33   this all is and why the praise Him and [TS]

00:39:35   everything in my head just started to [TS]

00:39:37   hurt and I'm like wait [TS]

00:39:38   ok so you're doing the Minotaur and the [TS]

00:39:40   maze and I you know again I like the [TS]

00:39:42   mythology but this felt so tacked on and [TS]

00:39:45   so completely out of left field that I [TS]

00:39:47   left was left very with a sour taste in [TS]

00:39:50   my mouth so I can I liked it I liked [TS]

00:39:52   everything I I thought that the what's [TS]

00:39:57   the that character the doctor and nurse [TS]

00:39:59   whatever they were setting her up to be [TS]

00:40:00   a replacement companion [TS]

00:40:02   yeah I Oh boys way to it was to all [TS]

00:40:05   those people it was more like he's he's [TS]

00:40:07   started to crush on her and be like you [TS]

00:40:09   could be my next prison you're so smart [TS]

00:40:12   i kinda creepy guy can ruin your life [TS]

00:40:15   yeah you guys I like it and I like that [TS]

00:40:20   there's that pulling out of the rug [TS]

00:40:21   where you know even the smart people you [TS]

00:40:23   know the people that the doctor thinks [TS]

00:40:25   you know our are worth it essentially [TS]

00:40:27   still don't get out all the time I kind [TS]

00:40:30   of enjoy I i kinda like this whole I [TS]

00:40:31   kind of like this whole episode I don't [TS]

00:40:33   know it i think because i was very [TS]

00:40:34   immersed in from the beach [TS]

00:40:35   me because of the way that they just [TS]

00:40:37   sort of drop you in and there is no [TS]

00:40:39   explanation of what you're going on [TS]

00:40:40   what's going on and so is kind of creepy [TS]

00:40:43   right there is amps the stocking this [TS]

00:40:45   and like that guy with all the the room [TS]

00:40:47   with although doesn't look with dummies [TS]

00:40:49   I don't there's a cloud adjective 1 I [TS]

00:40:51   mean just a cloud that's just sitting [TS]

00:40:52   there though right I get it it's i found [TS]

00:40:55   it you know largely understated for an [TS]

00:40:57   episode and not necessarily the most [TS]

00:40:58   original idea like there's there's rooms [TS]

00:41:00   for all your fears or whatever but I [TS]

00:41:03   don't know I I there was something [TS]

00:41:04   effective about it for me and I didn't I [TS]

00:41:06   gotta understand the complaints about [TS]

00:41:08   the last five minutes at the same time [TS]

00:41:10   it was kind of nothing more than a [TS]

00:41:12   passing sort of interest for me where [TS]

00:41:14   it's like oh ok alright it's this thing [TS]

00:41:16   ok let's move on that's not really the [TS]

00:41:17   point again this is the twist good [TS]

00:41:19   though that that it's not the rooms are [TS]

00:41:22   there with with full of your fears in [TS]

00:41:24   order to kill you [TS]

00:41:25   the rooms are there full of your fears [TS]

00:41:27   in order to have you have to rely on [TS]

00:41:30   something I think you get you through [TS]

00:41:34   and there was 13 my convoluted once it [TS]

00:41:37   finds that it eats that and you and then [TS]

00:41:40   you die happy right which is well I know [TS]

00:41:42   it was convoluted but it was interesting [TS]

00:41:43   and trying to be different and i saw [TS]

00:41:45   some discussions on the internet about [TS]

00:41:47   how they thought that that eating on a [TS]

00:41:49   that monster feeding on faith is a is a [TS]

00:41:52   sort of anti religious statement i [TS]

00:41:53   thought you know I now that I've [TS]

00:41:56   mentioned this stupid thing from the [TS]

00:41:57   internet i'm gonna beat it up because i [TS]

00:41:58   don't i don't actually agree i think [TS]

00:42:00   that the point here is first off it's [TS]

00:42:02   it's an evil monster that eats on each [TS]

00:42:04   your faith but that they tried to be [TS]

00:42:06   broader than that i liked the whole [TS]

00:42:08   aspect of it having to be that you know [TS]

00:42:10   Amy had to lose her faith in the doctor [TS]

00:42:13   right [TS]

00:42:13   I i like that that sort of flip side [TS]

00:42:16   around it [TS]

00:42:17   well its initial setup and it's also [TS]

00:42:19   it's the doctor seeing just how badly [TS]

00:42:22   he's route he thinks that are ruining [TS]

00:42:24   people's lives and he's like well you [TS]

00:42:25   i'm not going to save you I can't save [TS]

00:42:28   this girl who I potentially could have [TS]

00:42:30   been my next companion I can't save [TS]

00:42:31   anybody [TS]

00:42:32   I'm going to drop you off and prepare [TS]

00:42:34   myself and go away and i think there's [TS]

00:42:37   also they were trying to do a parallel [TS]

00:42:39   between the the Minotaur beast being old [TS]

00:42:42   and and you know you're trying to make [TS]

00:42:45   his way they were trying to do it and i [TS]

00:42:46   saw i saw all the pieces [TS]

00:42:49   like I like the the first 40 you know 30 [TS]

00:42:53   minutes of the episode and I like the [TS]

00:42:54   pieces that they were trying to put [TS]

00:42:56   together I just don't know if it [TS]

00:42:57   succeeded may be entirely if you better [TS]

00:42:59   on paper than in yes it's like a doctor [TS]

00:43:01   who episode recipe because it's always [TS]

00:43:03   like one part strange situation a [TS]

00:43:05   one-part thing with Lauren Amy's [TS]

00:43:07   relationship one part overall mythology [TS]

00:43:09   leading towards the finale and when they [TS]

00:43:11   get the mix right it works out i [TS]

00:43:12   definitely agree that all the [TS]

00:43:13   ingredients were there but the mix was a [TS]

00:43:15   little lumpy right i will say this [TS]

00:43:16   though great direction [TS]

00:43:18   I don't know what happened to your [TS]

00:43:19   metaphor I guess whoever was running the [TS]

00:43:22   beat the the mixer with a good job i [TS]

00:43:24   will another production the production [TS]

00:43:26   was really and we'll just looks [TS]

00:43:28   fantastic and looked eerie and creepy [TS]

00:43:30   and those two episodes that were talking [TS]

00:43:32   about the same director because I think [TS]

00:43:33   he directed the girl who waited to [TS]

00:43:34   really like them visualize just some [TS]

00:43:36   stuff that you haven't seen a doctor who [TS]

00:43:38   was like you know really striving to [TS]

00:43:40   provide some a different look and in [TS]

00:43:42   this one you have the security cameras [TS]

00:43:45   and security cameras were great [TS]

00:43:48   both of them did a really good job of [TS]

00:43:49   being very internally consistent in [TS]

00:43:51   creating these worlds that were [TS]

00:43:52   incredibly distinct i love the [TS]

00:43:54   claustrophobic feel about above the [TS]

00:43:56   hotel with the the stairway and with the [TS]

00:43:58   TARDIS on it and it was gone and my [TS]

00:44:00   TARDIS and we start and we start there [TS]

00:44:02   and and like like you said and the you [TS]

00:44:05   dropped in [TS]

00:44:06   I mean I actually love that when doctor [TS]

00:44:07   who does that where you're like what [TS]

00:44:09   where are we why are we doing this you [TS]

00:44:11   know instead of having to be hey we're [TS]

00:44:12   in the TARDIS let's go somewhere this [TS]

00:44:14   place looks interesting let's go out the [TS]

00:44:15   doors and have an adventure you know I [TS]

00:44:17   kind of like it when they don't do that [TS]

00:44:18   but they walked out right yeah like you [TS]

00:44:20   said they disappeared they walk out like [TS]

00:44:22   there's you know a minute and then [TS]

00:44:23   they're like okay we should go [TS]

00:44:25   oh crap yeah we can't its I thought that [TS]

00:44:29   the very small to the hotel this right [TS]

00:44:31   since all of us have attended many [TS]

00:44:32   conferences and been in endless hotel [TS]

00:44:34   corridor all of the ventriloquist w yeah [TS]

00:44:38   i mean that happen home designs yes [TS]

00:44:40   yeah and you're like always did that and [TS]

00:44:43   I started to have this is why i could [TS]

00:44:44   never watch the office either the UK the [TS]

00:44:45   US was up i don't work in offices like [TS]

00:44:47   that what is too similar to experiences [TS]

00:44:49   they've had where I start getting the [TS]

00:44:51   palpitations and like this episode of [TS]

00:44:53   Scott me like all the endless hotel room [TS]

00:44:57   oh I didn't want to give a shout out to [TS]

00:45:00   the the the the Cowardly aliens who I [TS]

00:45:04   really hope appear in pleasure from the [TS]

00:45:06   servants most because i love all I love [TS]

00:45:08   the idea right where the video channel [TS]

00:45:11   surrender monkeys [TS]

00:45:12   yeah what do you think about them not [TS]

00:45:14   even is just a surrender to infiltrate [TS]

00:45:16   and i love that I love that concept and [TS]

00:45:19   I really hope that actually yeah that's [TS]

00:45:21   another apparently famous actor from the [TS]

00:45:24   David David Walliams always a little [TS]

00:45:26   little britain guy right yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:45:29   so so that we don't recognize plus he [TS]

00:45:31   was dressed up like an alien butt so I [TS]

00:45:34   let's talk a little bit before we go [TS]

00:45:37   about the season as a whole we did this [TS]

00:45:41   last year and I think it's worth doing [TS]

00:45:42   again to go around and maybe ask for [TS]

00:45:47   what your favorite episode of the whole [TS]

00:45:49   season was and if you'd like to beat on [TS]

00:45:52   something that your least favorite thing [TS]

00:45:54   in the in the season and I guess I'll [TS]

00:45:59   start because that way you guys will [TS]

00:46:00   have time to ponder while I while I talk [TS]

00:46:04   about my favorite thing I think my [TS]

00:46:06   favorite episode of the season is you [TS]

00:46:12   know the neil gaiman episode is obvious [TS]

00:46:13   but I i guess i'll say instead just to [TS]

00:46:15   be less obvious less let's kill hitler [TS]

00:46:17   because it was such a misdirection and [TS]

00:46:20   it was wild and crazy and had the crazy [TS]

00:46:24   shift with the little alien people [TS]

00:46:27   inside it you know but I i like the game [TS]

00:46:31   episode 2i like most of the Mafia [TS]

00:46:34   episodes other than I i think the the [TS]

00:46:37   two-parter at the beginning of the [TS]

00:46:39   second part of that wasn't so so great [TS]

00:46:40   so and then my least favorite this is [TS]

00:46:44   going to be everybody's to say this but [TS]

00:46:45   that time the pirate episode yes which [TS]

00:46:47   it isn't by renault deal of that up then [TS]

00:46:52   looked up to go i did not all of us when [TS]

00:46:54   that was the run and that was you know [TS]

00:46:56   right [TS]

00:46:57   read what do you think what were your [TS]

00:46:58   favorite and least favorite things about [TS]

00:46:59   you stole my favorite my favorite hands [TS]

00:47:02   down as let's kill hitler but I'm oh God [TS]

00:47:05   was my second favorite are you can you [TS]

00:47:07   can just go with me [TS]

00:47:08   hi oh I would [TS]

00:47:09   ok i will check in with Jason let's kill [TS]

00:47:14   let's kill hitler was I still have [TS]

00:47:16   quotes banging around in my head from [TS]

00:47:18   that from that show from that episode I [TS]

00:47:21   love the characterization of Mel's as [TS]

00:47:23   melody pond much much more than I like [TS]

00:47:26   the melody pond is River Song revelation [TS]

00:47:29   and good man goes to war although i do [TS]

00:47:31   have to shout out the first like 10 [TS]

00:47:33   minutes of good man goes to war because [TS]

00:47:34   the brewery and everything was very very [TS]

00:47:37   well-crafted and i will say i liked up [TS]

00:47:41   on as the season as a whole I found when [TS]

00:47:44   I was because I after i finished [TS]

00:47:46   watching the finale i went back and sort [TS]

00:47:48   of went through the recap starting with [TS]

00:47:50   the impossible astronaut and looking at [TS]

00:47:53   this you know with the exception of a [TS]

00:47:54   couple of weird ones like curse of the [TS]

00:47:56   black spot I the season was remarkably [TS]

00:47:59   cohesive and it felt a lot stronger than [TS]

00:48:01   last season with the Pandorica was very [TS]

00:48:05   cool kind of season finale everything [TS]

00:48:07   comes together but I felt like there [TS]

00:48:09   weren't as many clues is there were this [TS]

00:48:12   season we really got we got a lot of [TS]

00:48:14   interesting concepts like we got a we [TS]

00:48:17   got flesh Amy the ganger Amy and we got [TS]

00:48:20   a we got the sort of little independent [TS]

00:48:23   episode the neil gaiman episode with the [TS]

00:48:24   TARDIS we built a lot of background in [TS]

00:48:27   addition to having a big a big bad story [TS]

00:48:30   and and having a nice overarching plot [TS]

00:48:33   and they did they did a lot of really [TS]

00:48:35   really good stuff and what 12 13 [TS]

00:48:38   episodes right we're gonna so what you [TS]

00:48:40   think would hold held together better if [TS]

00:48:42   they had run them all through instead of [TS]

00:48:44   splitting them into you know I actually [TS]

00:48:47   kind of like the break because I mean if [TS]

00:48:50   you if you went from directly from a [TS]

00:48:52   good man goes to war and the melody pond [TS]

00:48:54   revelation straight into the Mel's [TS]

00:48:57   scenario I kind of feel like we would [TS]

00:49:01   get it from the gecko be like wait a [TS]

00:49:04   second there's a new girl here and we [TS]

00:49:07   just had you know I i don't know i feel [TS]

00:49:09   i actually liked the like the space and [TS]

00:49:12   like the ramp up to two finales okay um [TS]

00:49:17   Glenn about you [TS]

00:49:18   I think I'm gonna go with you I'll do it [TS]

00:49:20   I'll do 24 just because I'm [TS]

00:49:22   verse i think the doctor's wife i liked [TS]

00:49:25   as a call back to the old doctor who [TS]

00:49:26   cereals that it had such a feeling of [TS]

00:49:29   like the Tom Baker era but updated with [TS]

00:49:31   like good computer graphics a better [TS]

00:49:33   plot snap your script but it was fun and [TS]

00:49:36   kind of chasing around the corner or [TS]

00:49:37   sway because they're chasing around [TS]

00:49:39   corners but I i find them [TS]

00:49:40   I thought it was was a very strong [TS]

00:49:42   episode in preserving mythology and just [TS]

00:49:44   being hilarious and interesting and and [TS]

00:49:47   someone thought provoking but the girl [TS]

00:49:49   who waited as because the most [TS]

00:49:51   emblematic was my favorite of the new [TS]

00:49:53   kind of doctor who aesthetic which is [TS]

00:49:55   more intellectual and poses problems [TS]

00:49:56   that are actually harder and resolvable [TS]

00:49:58   and terrible things happened sort of the [TS]

00:50:01   hard sci-fi way things are unresolvable [TS]

00:50:03   someone has to die in a terrible way [TS]

00:50:05   they never even exist [TS]

00:50:06   it's the worst units the worse than [TS]

00:50:08   death scenario modern sci-fi is you've [TS]

00:50:10   been erased from history or existence as [TS]

00:50:12   opposed to just been killed [TS]

00:50:13   there's no afterlife there's no other [TS]

00:50:16   kind of experience for your gone except [TS]

00:50:17   in memory i think those two are the best [TS]

00:50:19   i actually thought this season i would [TS]

00:50:21   say was bugging me because there are [TS]

00:50:23   several episodes in like it like the [TS]

00:50:24   flash episodes at all the pirate episode [TS]

00:50:26   i thought was terrible god complex was [TS]

00:50:29   sort of fun but I thought it was thin i [TS]

00:50:31   did not like night terrors so I thought [TS]

00:50:32   there's some very strong episodes and I [TS]

00:50:35   thought they were so very weak ones that [TS]

00:50:36   didn't even rise to my mind to like the [TS]

00:50:38   pirate one being like just enjoyable to [TS]

00:50:40   watch some of the most enjoyable [TS]

00:50:42   episodes were also some of the best ones [TS]

00:50:44   that were just sort of rollicking and [TS]

00:50:45   like the closing closing time but but i [TS]

00:50:49   think you know and so not a strong [TS]

00:50:50   season i would think is a has-been felt [TS]

00:50:52   but but very strong episodes in the [TS]

00:50:54   season [TS]

00:50:55   alright yeah overall I i think i have to [TS]

00:51:00   decide with the let's kill hitler with a [TS]

00:51:02   good man goes to war being a close [TS]

00:51:04   second [TS]

00:51:05   I like that to partner in general i [TS]

00:51:07   agree with Ren said about the if you [TS]

00:51:09   didn't have that break there i think it [TS]

00:51:10   would lose some of its impact you know [TS]

00:51:12   it's just like our can't wait to see [TS]

00:51:13   what happens next week but the fact that [TS]

00:51:14   we had to wait you know a few months to [TS]

00:51:16   figure out what happened i think it [TS]

00:51:18   intensified it [TS]

00:51:19   overall I think the second half of the [TS]

00:51:22   season was a lot better than the first [TS]

00:51:24   half and maybe that's just I know that [TS]

00:51:26   they rearranged some stuff and maybe [TS]

00:51:27   that's just you know how about the chips [TS]

00:51:30   fell but i found myself enjoying all the [TS]

00:51:32   episodes much more in the second half [TS]

00:51:33   like Glenn [TS]

00:51:34   I thought the pirate episode was just [TS]

00:51:36   atrocious and i didn't i didn't really [TS]

00:51:38   even have fun with it [TS]

00:51:40   I did not like the flesh episodes really [TS]

00:51:42   either but you know I guess I'm the lone [TS]

00:51:45   person who like the most of the episodes [TS]

00:51:46   in the second half of the season and I [TS]

00:51:48   just sort of felt like I was much more [TS]

00:51:50   immersed in invested in this story once [TS]

00:51:53   that we hit we had that sort of [TS]

00:51:54   mid-season finale and pick up and i [TS]

00:51:57   think that there's just the overall [TS]

00:51:58   there's a lot to like about this season [TS]

00:52:00   i think you know in particular some of [TS]

00:52:03   the characters really came more into [TS]

00:52:04   their own Matt Smith's doctor is much [TS]

00:52:07   more clearly defined i thought that i [TS]

00:52:10   really liked the the progress that they [TS]

00:52:13   made with Rory going from a sort of [TS]

00:52:15   two-dimensional like let's kill them off [TS]

00:52:17   a lot of character to to a character why [TS]

00:52:20   I really liked you know when he [TS]

00:52:21   especially in the beginning of good man [TS]

00:52:23   goes to war I think that's you know a [TS]

00:52:24   character defining moment for him [TS]

00:52:26   I like that they kept a lot of the stuff [TS]

00:52:27   that they develop starting at the end of [TS]

00:52:29   the last season for him and and he's [TS]

00:52:32   become one of my favorite characters [TS]

00:52:33   because he is kind of hapless but also [TS]

00:52:35   incredibly you know pure just a good [TS]

00:52:39   person right and I think that that is a [TS]

00:52:42   a you know he's got a parole quality to [TS]

00:52:44   him in that sense and now my night feel [TS]

00:52:48   like I can't really say much bad about [TS]

00:52:49   any pond so maybe don't you dare idea i [TS]

00:52:53   wouldn't i'm a sucker arena but yeah [TS]

00:52:57   overall I i think this season had more [TS]

00:52:59   strong episodes i think it had some [TS]

00:53:01   lower lows in the first season but also [TS]

00:53:03   much higher highs alright John what [TS]

00:53:06   about you but when I'm different my [TS]

00:53:07   flame retardant headset now let's write [TS]

00:53:10   ok that's a place I think season six [TS]

00:53:14   made me appreciate season five more [TS]

00:53:16   after have 25 you said how this matt [TS]

00:53:22   smith doing i think i gave a positive [TS]

00:53:23   review to see some fire but watching [TS]

00:53:26   season six like if you were to lay out [TS]

00:53:29   the the Ark plot it's just like an [TS]

00:53:31   outline form of like is we're going to [TS]

00:53:32   do in the first episode we have a doctor [TS]

00:53:34   died or apparently died and then we're [TS]

00:53:36   going to then we're going to introduce [TS]

00:53:37   this concept the flesh and then we're [TS]

00:53:39   going to have the Flash Amy and we had [TS]

00:53:40   the baby is going to river song and you [TS]

00:53:42   know I could just lay off those points [TS]

00:53:44   at that those those are reasonable bones [TS]

00:53:47   for a season's arc and then what I would [TS]

00:53:50   have said it was laying out like that [TS]

00:53:51   it's okay those are the bones of the [TS]

00:53:53   thing but what is this season about I [TS]

00:53:55   would have tried to make the season I [TS]

00:53:56   think that kind of trying to make the [TS]

00:53:57   season a personal story about the doctor [TS]

00:54:00   it's not about the universe being at [TS]

00:54:01   stake Rory and Amy story pretty much was [TS]

00:54:04   the previous season in that triangle [TS]

00:54:06   situations that's what we're not gonna [TS]

00:54:07   do you know this is this is this season [TS]

00:54:09   about the doctor but then what they hung [TS]

00:54:11   on those bones was a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:54:14   raggedy stuff in there I actually [TS]

00:54:16   dislike night terrors more than I just [TS]

00:54:19   like that the pirate episode which is [TS]

00:54:20   saying something [TS]

00:54:22   yeah it's closed for me to honestly I [TS]

00:54:24   really just like that episode 2 [TS]

00:54:26   yeah and and the the individual when [TS]

00:54:29   they filmed pieces of the arc story when [TS]

00:54:31   they filmed like the revelation about [TS]

00:54:32   the flesh Amy or the doctor dying or are [TS]

00:54:36   any of those things that when they [TS]

00:54:37   filmed art pieces are the pieces of [TS]

00:54:39   River Song those segments were good but [TS]

00:54:42   they were spread too thin i would like [TS]

00:54:43   to see them made more dense to make room [TS]

00:54:46   in the middle for good a better for [TS]

00:54:50   better episodes with you know that they [TS]

00:54:53   weren't so concerned with our stuff [TS]

00:54:54   right [TS]

00:54:55   yeah because like every episode that [TS]

00:54:56   they want to have some interesting idea [TS]

00:54:58   they tried to hang with summer stuff on [TS]

00:54:59   so if i had to pick a favorite I'm [TS]

00:55:01   actually probably going to pick the girl [TS]

00:55:02   who waited even though I dumped on that [TS]

00:55:04   episode a lot at least it was trying to [TS]

00:55:06   do something different with the [TS]

00:55:08   characters with killing off the old Amy [TS]

00:55:10   in that dilemma and that's what i want [TS]

00:55:11   to see from us I know it's like you know [TS]

00:55:13   spanish see fairytale cyber from a [TS]

00:55:15   sci-fi show i want to see stuff like [TS]

00:55:16   that it's going to be character-driven [TS]

00:55:17   sci-fi then finally have an established [TS]

00:55:18   character who makes care about killing [TS]

00:55:20   the old Abbey do more of that don't [TS]

00:55:23   weigh those episodes down with the other [TS]

00:55:24   stuff and i'm looking through the the [TS]

00:55:27   episode list here I don't like PDA i'm [TS]

00:55:29   actually looking at the writers but [TS]

00:55:30   normally take no note but i can see that [TS]

00:55:32   the the episodes that Steven Moffat road [TS]

00:55:36   aa-are i mean it it shows i wouldn't say [TS]

00:55:39   who wrote those but like it he wrote [TS]

00:55:41   like it so let's kill hitler a good man [TS]

00:55:43   goes to war the opening two episodes in [TS]

00:55:45   the finale and I think the level of the [TS]

00:55:47   writing those episodes it shows that [TS]

00:55:49   that's like a step up from the ones [TS]

00:55:51   between but not just talking about i [TS]

00:55:53   think other than the neil gaiman episode [TS]

00:55:55   and maybe I'm a closing time which is [TS]

00:55:57   going [TS]

00:55:57   light and funny but I think you're right [TS]

00:56:00   there's definitely a difference of the [TS]

00:56:03   game episode is the only other one where [TS]

00:56:04   i'd say like wow that was really solid [TS]

00:56:07   in a way that some of the others like [TS]

00:56:09   night terrors of the pyriform were not [TS]

00:56:10   and the reason I say that makes me [TS]

00:56:12   appreciate season five more is because [TS]

00:56:14   season six has a like when I think back [TS]

00:56:16   of it I can still see season 5 moments [TS]

00:56:19   more clearly my mind season six you know [TS]

00:56:21   like season five I could think about all [TS]

00:56:23   i remember that season that was you know [TS]

00:56:24   it just it stands out more vividly [TS]

00:56:26   format and off the individual episodes [TS]

00:56:27   or better or the way the structured it [TS]

00:56:29   better or it's because these characters [TS]

00:56:30   were new and we're introduced to Amy and [TS]

00:56:32   Rory then that stands out in my mind [TS]

00:56:34   more than the season is kinda like man [TS]

00:56:37   it's kind of like some of the the middle [TS]

00:56:39   10 seasons where he hadn't really hit [TS]

00:56:41   his stride and but also hadn't passed [TS]

00:56:43   onto self-parody he was just kind of [TS]

00:56:45   like in his middle in area [TS]

00:56:47   I'll say this about the about the last [TS]

00:56:50   season about the fifth season is that I [TS]

00:56:52   don't think there was any episode this [TS]

00:56:53   season that was as bad as the silurian [TS]

00:56:55   to partner last year the guide agree [TS]

00:56:58   with that so so even the Pirates maybe [TS]

00:57:01   pirates maybe maybe yeah maybe silurian [TS]

00:57:04   was how yeah it was [TS]

00:57:06   it's the thinnest yeah that's what bugs [TS]

00:57:07   you is like the only do a limited number [TS]

00:57:09   of MPs 13 episodes of season us about [TS]

00:57:11   your like they would all be all be good [TS]

00:57:13   and instead what you get is a couple [TS]

00:57:15   episodes that feel like filler and a [TS]

00:57:17   two-parter that maybe isn't really [TS]

00:57:19   enough story to to carry two parts and [TS]

00:57:22   it is kind of what i mean i understand [TS]

00:57:24   they also have had a you know whatever [TS]

00:57:25   20-percent budget cut because the BBC is [TS]

00:57:28   going through hard times but it's always [TS]

00:57:30   struck me that if you only have 13 [TS]

00:57:33   episodes a year wouldn't you think that [TS]

00:57:35   they would all be really kind of [TS]

00:57:37   carefully honed and crafted in a way [TS]

00:57:40   that is not apparent that they are your [TS]

00:57:44   budget cuts an opportunity though [TS]

00:57:46   because especially on a sci-fi show you [TS]

00:57:47   get the budget cut then you know you can [TS]

00:57:50   shoot around the scope of of it like [TS]

00:57:52   think about was that the one midnight [TS]

00:57:53   when they were like the whole thing was [TS]

00:57:55   shot in a little transport on that [TS]

00:57:56   planet have that was a day and which is [TS]

00:57:58   the greatest episode of the girl who [TS]

00:58:00   waited is a good example of that where [TS]

00:58:01   that's it that's a that's a cheap [TS]

00:58:03   episode in many ways and yet looks like [TS]

00:58:06   looks great because it's cheap and they [TS]

00:58:09   got creative about everything is you if [TS]

00:58:10   you don't have a [TS]

00:58:11   that fancy stuff and you forced to come [TS]

00:58:12   up with a good premise in a good story [TS]

00:58:14   and like you know that's an opportunity [TS]

00:58:15   when we touched upon this in the in [TS]

00:58:17   other places to you know we talked about [TS]

00:58:19   yeah I had some other podcast things [TS]

00:58:20   like star wars were like you know there [TS]

00:58:22   are constraints breed creativity right [TS]

00:58:24   you guys think harder to get around the [TS]

00:58:26   problems that you're going to have [TS]

00:58:27   because you don't have any money and [TS]

00:58:28   things like writing which are you know [TS]

00:58:30   arguably a fixed cost you know that's [TS]

00:58:33   that's where you should be focusing well [TS]

00:58:35   so then again I you know why why is it [TS]

00:58:38   that in 13 episodes of finely crafted [TS]

00:58:40   British entertainment you have two three [TS]

00:58:42   four episodes that feel like kind of you [TS]

00:58:45   know an essential and and almost filler [TS]

00:58:49   ii8 I still don't understand it well if [TS]

00:58:51   the writers tail to mark the russell [TS]

00:58:54   davies book I think that reveals a [TS]

00:58:56   little bit of the pressure I mean he was [TS]

00:58:58   doing he was doing show running for two [TS]

00:58:59   majors here too much going on but I [TS]

00:59:01   think there's this sort of the [TS]

00:59:02   constraint of how they put the show [TS]

00:59:04   together they try to hold together too [TS]

00:59:06   much and they don't have the resources [TS]

00:59:07   to both deliver the kind of pantomime [TS]

00:59:11   entertainment that this is supposed to [TS]

00:59:12   be with the campus but also now it's [TS]

00:59:15   expected to have great special effects [TS]

00:59:16   like we expect the cgi to look movie [TS]

00:59:19   quality and not look cheesy and cheap i [TS]

00:59:22   think all those constraints together I [TS]

00:59:23   don't think they can meet the cast for [TS]

00:59:26   you know we like the best of the best [TS]

00:59:27   i'm not sure I'm not sure I agree about [TS]

00:59:29   that from the writing perspective Bowen [TS]

00:59:31   and this is something that you know [TS]

00:59:32   Russell Russell Davis doesn't didn't do [TS]

00:59:34   it like a sexy mama does Russell Davis [TS]

00:59:36   rewrote every episode and see the muscle [TS]

00:59:39   group actually doesn't and and that's [TS]

00:59:41   something interesting because as much as [TS]

00:59:43   I can complain about some of what [TS]

00:59:45   Russell Davis did and some of the [TS]

00:59:46   episodes that he rewrote Steven Moffat [TS]

00:59:49   you know knowing that he doesn't rewrite [TS]

00:59:51   other writers stuff is in some ways I [TS]

00:59:55   think an explanation why the seasons are [TS]

00:59:57   less well are more up [TS]

00:59:57   less well are more up [TS]

01:00:00   the even and that there are more kind of [TS]

01:00:02   the of these clunker episodes i think [TS]

01:00:04   there's a nice thing about that risk [TS]

01:00:06   which is you you may get some episodes [TS]

01:00:08   that have a voice that is different and [TS]

01:00:09   that's good and I think there are a few [TS]

01:00:12   of those examples in his era but you [TS]

01:00:14   also run the risk of having stuff that [TS]

01:00:17   sort of dips below the quality line and [TS]

01:00:20   and you know I keep thinking why don't [TS]

01:00:22   you know man maybe they do this but why [TS]

01:00:24   don't they order several more scripts [TS]

01:00:26   then they're going to use and then [TS]

01:00:28   choose the ones that are the best but [TS]

01:00:30   these may be the best maybe they do [TS]

01:00:33   no possible i don't know you know I [TS]

01:00:37   think they're trying to also they try [TS]

01:00:39   and tackle some interesting topics and [TS]

01:00:41   sometimes those succeed wildly and [TS]

01:00:44   sometimes they fall on their face and [TS]

01:00:45   I'd rather I I don't know I'd rather [TS]

01:00:48   that they have the freedom to experiment [TS]

01:00:51   boldly and you know do an episode where [TS]

01:00:54   there are pirates onna granted and a [TS]

01:00:58   ship crashing into a fixed time point [TS]

01:01:00   and you know that's all cool on paper [TS]

01:01:02   and it didn't turn out to be the best [TS]

01:01:04   episode but it was still meet that they [TS]

01:01:06   took the they took the chance and it's [TS]

01:01:09   better than would you rather have that [TS]

01:01:11   and then have a flop or would you rather [TS]

01:01:12   have a doctor who episode that you've [TS]

01:01:15   seen you know three or four years ago [TS]

01:01:17   that follows the same basic plot [TS]

01:01:19   conventions and is boring but is ok [TS]

01:01:22   written [TS]

01:01:23   ok so to Scott I need you I need you to [TS]

01:01:25   chime in here we got we got diverted oh [TS]

01:01:27   and we care about your room Union ah I [TS]

01:01:32   don't really care too much as much as it [TS]

01:01:33   pains me to let my nemesis talk who I [TS]

01:01:36   did I did I just going to skip over me [TS]

01:01:38   who cares about my people I love you [TS]

01:01:40   that's nice so i will echo the sentiment [TS]

01:01:43   especially well how much do I owe you [TS]

01:01:47   Mia I will echo the sentiments of [TS]

01:01:50   several other patents that choose let's [TS]

01:01:53   kill hitler as my favorite episode of [TS]

01:01:55   this season [TS]

01:01:56   alright i'm changing my vote meal game [TS]

01:01:57   and then there you go no let's kill [TS]

01:01:59   hitler is that clear [TS]

01:02:01   it was good it was where he it was a [TS]

01:02:03   head Nazis in a time-travel I guess [TS]

01:02:06   they'll have time traveling them but [TS]

01:02:08   oh yeah we Scott Nazis up you know [TS]

01:02:11   hey there's something to be said they [TS]

01:02:12   have nice uniforms motorcycles [TS]

01:02:14   motorcycles out again I know [TS]

01:02:17   shape-shifting are robots which is of [TS]

01:02:19   course important plot point as we find [TS]

01:02:21   out later yes even though that angered [TS]

01:02:24   me uh at least favorite once again i [TS]

01:02:26   will mention pirates on a spaceship i [TS]

01:02:30   will say i was glad at the this finale [TS]

01:02:32   that the Pirates in the spaceship did [TS]

01:02:35   not somehow save a doctor i would [TS]

01:02:37   imagine that bad happened about like [TS]

01:02:40   that would have been pretty bad i was [TS]

01:02:42   waiting for it as I go those pirates are [TS]

01:02:44   going to show up again [TS]

01:02:45   well we had a moment there right where [TS]

01:02:47   is like all of those people have come [TS]

01:02:49   and chimed in and they want to help save [TS]

01:02:51   you and I'm like oh god we're gonna see [TS]

01:02:53   it's it's going to be like russell t [TS]

01:02:56   davies big finale and we're going to see [TS]

01:02:58   everybody alien suit that we still owned [TS]

01:03:00   and controlled storage will be brought [TS]

01:03:03   up to [TS]

01:03:04   they don't die doctor we need you here [TS]

01:03:06   with us the sitar an empire but yea yea [TS]

01:03:11   and June would come and one would be [TS]

01:03:13   shedding a tear and they would say mo no [TS]

01:03:16   no go right and yea Wow look for in this [TS]

01:03:20   episode we're headed right let's not do [TS]

01:03:22   that [TS]

01:03:22   well no I've seen it so it's and its [TS]

01:03:25   last of the time lords and the end of [TS]

01:03:27   time part 2 [TS]

01:03:29   yeah and doomsday a you know right [TS]

01:03:32   that's what I was thinking when was [TS]

01:03:34   saying would you rather have an episode [TS]

01:03:35   where these doctor who plots that are [TS]

01:03:37   recycled and I'm thinking well that's [TS]

01:03:38   almost every other episode of yeah it's [TS]

01:03:42   been a long time has been out it's hard [TS]

01:03:45   to break out of its formulate it says it [TS]

01:03:47   has this this the weight of its own plot [TS]

01:03:52   and fan expectations and rapid you [TS]

01:03:54   expect the doctor to do certain things [TS]

01:03:56   so they have to write that show and [TS]

01:03:58   sometimes get crappy episodes so now [TS]

01:04:00   that the now comes the waiting because [TS]

01:04:02   there will be a Christmas special that I [TS]

01:04:04   believe they're shooting right now but [TS]

01:04:06   that won't be that where your business [TS]

01:04:07   is a teaser floating rs.3000 that's at [TS]

01:04:11   least i will feel teased when I watch it [TS]

01:04:14   I guess we'll have to do a podcast after [TS]

01:04:16   it airs yes I think I think I know what [TS]

01:04:18   we're doing on Christmas night [TS]

01:04:21   so two years in a row so yeah well that [TS]

01:04:23   would make a traditional wooden it and [TS]

01:04:26   some turkey you know some football if [TS]

01:04:29   you're into that sort of thing and [TS]

01:04:30   doctor who you know it's it's a nice [TS]

01:04:32   thing [TS]

01:04:32   so what until Christmas when we will [TS]

01:04:34   presumably do this all again if we are [TS]

01:04:36   all healthy and able to participate and [TS]

01:04:39   assuming they could finish shooting and [TS]

01:04:41   editing that episode 4 months fingers [TS]

01:04:45   great cuts never know it might say it's [TS]

01:04:48   a nice tree special about Christmas [TS]

01:04:51   yeah something like that up but anyway [TS]

01:04:54   so thank you guys for participating in [TS]

01:04:56   the doctor podcast the season it's been [TS]

01:04:58   fun even when the episodes have not been [TS]

01:05:00   which you know pirates and that other [TS]

01:05:03   one with the kid are never completely [TS]

01:05:06   really is it's for ya [TS]

01:05:08   I don't know anyway so i would like to [TS]

01:05:11   thank my guests here on the on the [TS]

01:05:13   Doctor Who club we will get little [TS]

01:05:15   tartness pins later [TS]

01:05:17   that's why your membership our affairs [TS]

01:05:19   you have to buy them yourself [TS]

01:05:20   uh-huh already called well thank you [TS]

01:05:23   thank you Jason land fleischmann thank [TS]

01:05:25   you thank you and take that fence off [TS]

01:05:28   John siracusa thank you i'm looking [TS]

01:05:31   forward to another universe reboot next [TS]

01:05:33   season that you might as well because [TS]

01:05:36   it's gonna happen you just know it it's [TS]

01:05:39   gonna happen [TS]

01:05:40   same as this one just no ducks no [TS]

01:05:42   doctors that's right no duck universe [TS]

01:05:45   and more'n thank you for for coming and [TS]

01:05:49   for liking things even big Swede applied [TS]

01:05:51   you're welcome face and scalp healthy [TS]

01:05:53   thanks for being here thanks for having [TS]

01:05:55   until we meet again [TS]

01:05:58   in the past present future and maybe [TS]

01:06:01   even out of order and justice helping [TS]

01:06:03   comfortable texting mystic [TS]

01:06:13   [Music] [TS]