0:00:00the incomparable podcast number 56
0:00:07September 2011
0:00:11we're back on the uncomfortable podcast
0:00:13I'm Jason L this is one of those flash
0:00:15podcasts by flash I mean we don't edit
0:00:19it and we just record a skype
0:00:20conversation and it saves me a lot of
0:00:21work haha
0:00:23anyway we're here to talk about the two
0:00:25most recent episodes of the BBC's Doctor
0:00:28Who season 6 part to the episodes in
0:00:32question are night terrors and the girl
0:00:36who waited which of air over the last
0:00:38two weeks
0:00:40joining me today to discuss these two
0:00:43episodes at least for now joining me are
0:00:46ten fleischmann hi Glenn
0:00:48I've been recording this for 36 years
0:00:50six months and three days and finally
0:00:53you calling me you took the slower path
0:00:55i see huh
0:00:56don't ever press the red water ball I'm
0:00:58telling you it's a joe haldeman path
0:01:01scoffing multi is also here hi Scott let
0:01:04me take off my gloves so i can see you
0:01:06all
0:01:06mm and John siracusa is also present i'm
0:01:11in the correct time screen as always
0:01:12that now
0:01:14actually we joke about this but two
0:01:16members of our panel did press via the
0:01:19red waterfall and the right it's the red
0:01:22with the green anchor and the redwater
0:01:24floor right at this trailer nautically
0:01:27themed as all hospitals are apparently
0:01:29yes so you know who universe so Dan
0:01:32Morgan and serenity Caldwell press the
0:01:34red waterfall and lost to us an
0:01:36alternate time stream at least for now
0:01:37they're out of sync with us in terms of
0:01:40time which is our way of saying they're
0:01:42late so I'm two episodes interesting
0:01:48standalone episodes which is kind of
0:01:49nice to see I think after so many r kv
0:01:51episodes this season
0:01:54who would like to talk about last week's
0:01:56episode night terrors in which a young
0:01:58child that calls for the doctor because
0:02:00he's got monsters in his room and his
0:02:02his calls are answered by little I
0:02:07thought it was a classic you know quirky
0:02:10doctor you know everything's gonna turn
0:02:12out all right in the end no one's going
0:02:13to die sort of episode which is how
0:02:15spoiler it did it had that had that air
0:02:19of because the episodes in which things
0:02:21go really awry and the doctor has to set
0:02:23things
0:02:24and if he does not people people have
0:02:26already died terrible things happen and
0:02:27so forth and allow those tend to be the
0:02:29mythology episodes and you have these
0:02:30kind of like quirky funny ones in which
0:02:32lost terrifying things happen but you
0:02:35sort of it's more like a fairy tale and
0:02:36that's what the category this fit in and
0:02:39I don't know I thought I thought it was
0:02:40fun it was a little more like an older
0:02:42doctor who didn't have the feeling of
0:02:44the newer episodes much and it was a
0:02:46little more on you know horror oriented
0:02:48which I i think the new series is much
0:02:50more about than the old series were it's
0:02:53sort of a trademark but I never got the
0:02:55full creepy like giant dolls walking
0:02:57around and so forth never really got up
0:03:00my spine and I thought the central
0:03:02mystery was a little fan like often
0:03:04there's multiple stories running a good
0:03:06show of any kind any kind of drama or
0:03:08comedy is UAB and sometimes CND
0:03:10bloodlines and I felt there was sort of
0:03:12like an a-line here and one central
0:03:14mystery once that was sort of that it
0:03:16was like okay and we put all the pieces
0:03:17in place but as the parents i did have
0:03:21you always get that knowing in your soul
0:03:23when you see a child you know in harm's
0:03:25way and you always delighted to see
0:03:27parents step up to the plate and do the
0:03:30thing that's right for the children
0:03:31because they have such love for their
0:03:33little boy or girl so that's what I
0:03:36thought about it the dad right in the
0:03:38end it's the dad's job to to say but of
0:03:40course i love you and I would never want
0:03:42you to go away and and he he's the one
0:03:44who has to make that statement dr. can't
0:03:46save the little boy in the end yeah I
0:03:48wasn't prepared for exactly that moment
0:03:49I was like oh that is honorably sweet
0:03:52even rest the episode West investor live
0:03:54up to the potential was kind of fun with
0:03:56that one moment is like oh that's been
0:03:57running down and grabbing his child is
0:03:59just you know that's the way you know if
0:04:01you remember if we can borrow if we go
0:04:02back to the christopher eccleston dr. we
0:04:05that's direct echo of the doctor dances
0:04:08episode the two-parter which we need
0:04:10Captain Jack and their backhand World
0:04:12War two it all these people are turning
0:04:13into this our gas bearings things yeah
0:04:17at the end it's the young woman who has
0:04:20a child out of wedlock embraces her to
0:04:22transform child and says yes i am your
0:04:24money and that's that act of love is the
0:04:27transformative act they're kind of SAP's
0:04:29that doctor who in some way and I kind
0:04:31of like that sort of thing but the
0:04:33doctor dances was much better episode so
0:04:35I think it has i've truly great yes
0:04:37actors are like five things going on
0:04:39actually resolved and use them all in
0:04:41interesting ways they were not been
0:04:43exactly this was kind of a one-note look
0:04:45creepy dolls oh the boys and actually an
0:04:48alien
0:04:48everybody loves you get it was more like
0:04:51the boys an alien is he
0:04:54I guess you mean he doesn't do anything
0:04:57he doesn't glow or anything he's just a
0:04:59boy they say well he's an alien but he's
0:05:01a boy now but he was an alien but he's
0:05:03not now it's always a teenager way to
0:05:06those teenagers up they spent all the
0:05:08budget on the dolls so apparently but
0:05:11yeah these are this and the last week's
0:05:13episode in this week's episode are the I
0:05:16think we blew too much money early in
0:05:18this already this season and we're
0:05:20saving up for stuff later
0:05:22did did it seem to you guys that the
0:05:26well first off they're the dolls right
0:05:29which were which were weird and and and
0:05:32I didn't think we're particularly scary
0:05:34especially since they don't really do
0:05:37anything except follow you around and
0:05:39occasionally turn you into a doll i'm
0:05:42gonna knock over pretty easy
0:05:44yeah it did I I didn't feel a lot of of
0:05:47Jeopardy from them and then and then it
0:05:48didn't also seem to you that there was a
0:05:51whole lot put into the idea that you
0:05:53were going to be shocked when you
0:05:55discovered that Rory and Amy were inside
0:05:57a dollhouse in his closet when I just
0:06:01sort of never thought that was a
0:06:03surprise and I thought them running
0:06:05around in the dollhouse was kind of
0:06:06boring
0:06:07yep horrifying surprise don't know where
0:06:11Nadal haha no way i'm sure in Las the
0:06:15dollhouse you're being chased by giant
0:06:17dolls and you showed us adult house in
0:06:19the closet
0:06:20I couldn't put 22 yeah and yet it seems
0:06:22sort of like the episode wants it to be
0:06:23a big revelation and they know it's just
0:06:26a it's dolls in a dollhouse and that's
0:06:28that's all you got is I mean because i
0:06:30like that i like the tone I how it's
0:06:32dark and it's supposed to be scary and
0:06:33all that but but I kept thinking to
0:06:35myself is this it is this it is this
0:06:38heat is there another level here and
0:06:40other than the stuff with you know with
0:06:42a father which even that seems sort of
0:06:43contrived like well we have a
0:06:45conversation once when I was worried we
0:06:46were going to have to send him away and
0:06:48that is the motivation for this whole
0:06:50thing is just
0:06:51it you know it it felt on the surface
0:06:53like there was a really great episode
0:06:55here and then I just kept thinking
0:06:56really thats it thats that's as deep as
0:06:59it's gonna go
0:07:00yeah you wanted the thing like that you
0:07:01know i can't wait for Aslan to come out
0:07:03of the closet myself but you keep
0:07:05waiting for also something else to come
0:07:08up like you know it's like okay there's
0:07:10some other this is part of a bigger
0:07:11thing or I mean if you look at like the
0:07:14sort of silly episode the data 10
0:07:17episode with the but puffin fresh kids
0:07:20was that one called the the little um
0:07:23often fresh kids you know that way
0:07:26without water the avoirdupois the there
0:07:29are people's fat and they add a adipose
0:07:33thank you like even that was a silly
0:07:35episode you have like people decomposing
0:07:38into little creatures and and weird
0:07:40stuff and then running up and down
0:07:41corridors and whatever that was you know
0:07:44same period of time lot more scenery and
0:07:46it's not similar theme I know but we
0:07:48sort of similar like silly was sort of
0:07:50ridiculous episode but you had medicine
0:07:52it you had some mythology brought in
0:07:54because Don and the doctor find each
0:07:56other again that's incidental but it's
0:07:57in there was such a rich thing I had
0:07:59trouble
0:08:00episode over at like was this really a
0:08:01full-length episode this felt like a
0:08:0314-page comic book of Doctor Who so
0:08:06enjoyable but you know it's like this is
0:08:08like a 15-minute cereal thing it's not
0:08:10like a you know full 40 plus minute
0:08:12entry in the in the Canon alright John
0:08:15what about you know what
0:08:17when I saw your email go out of what
0:08:18we're going to be talking about tonight
0:08:20I panting like that i'm missing app but
0:08:22you talking about this night terrorist
0:08:23thing that the episode was so
0:08:25forgettable I'd literally forgotten that
0:08:26I'd seen it was that I literally the
0:08:28page and I said oh yeah I did right
0:08:31yeah I thought that would be like jason
0:08:33said it was shot really well and I like
0:08:35they set up this atmosphere and you know
0:08:36they were really trying to be creepy but
0:08:38it just was not it was not create an
0:08:40apostle big thing of it that halloween
0:08:43quality full head masks are a doctor who
0:08:46like forehead makeup is the star trek I
0:08:48I don't then they just got they loved
0:08:51the big head big heads now that's the
0:08:53way to do the makeup just take take some
0:08:55giant mask over the head of an actor
0:08:56have walk slowly and that the head mask
0:08:58and look like very adamant had was not
0:09:00creepy was not scary legs
0:09:03it's down yeah you know I didn't really
0:09:04watch the episode that's not last week
0:09:05and I watched the the new episode twice
0:09:08today in fact i watch the second time
0:09:10because i wanted to see that wanted to
0:09:11get more of the subtlety of it and i'll
0:09:13watch it again and that lassoed the
0:09:15eagerly-awaited election watch that
0:09:18again I'll probably that again and again
0:09:19over the years but this one I don't
0:09:22think I will ever ever flip again so all
0:09:25all of that agreed to buy me and yet i
0:09:29will i will now bring in an opposing
0:09:32viewpoint which is that my my freshly
0:09:37turned seven-year-old son watch this
0:09:39episode with us and was absolutely
0:09:44terrified oh wow ok so there's little
0:09:48children so you know part of and as
0:09:53adults we look at this and we say well
0:09:54you know it really was my favorite part
0:09:57of what doctor who is made for is not
0:10:00for us right it is to scare little
0:10:02children that that's actually one of the
0:10:04things that supposed to do and i have to
0:10:06say it did that it was it was scary my
0:10:09daughter thought it was scary my son
0:10:11thought it was terrifying and basically
0:10:13said if the is going to be that scary
0:10:14anymore i don't want to watch Doctor Who
0:10:16anymore because it was too scary for me
0:10:17and I'm afraid of the dolls so lots of
0:10:20things together although i think i think
0:10:21the music actually scared more than
0:10:23anything else because he's very
0:10:24sensitive to sort of music cues that are
0:10:26scary things but whatever it it it did
0:10:29the job there so i will point out
0:10:31Jason's son and my older son are born
0:10:33exactly the same day and year and my son
0:10:36we had our time to watch winnie-the-pooh
0:10:38a couple years ago so if he watched this
0:10:41episode he would never sleep again so he
0:10:45is not doctor who is like I was 42 I
0:10:47might be able to get them to watch it
0:10:48good little anxiety about that kind of
0:10:51thing will have a lot of episodes backed
0:10:53up by that expect collects the 4000
0:10:55episodes and his neural implant then all
0:10:57at once and five seconds we need who is
0:10:59terrifying
0:11:00it's true those bees got dammit yeah it
0:11:04and it's you know again the atmosphere
0:11:07don't beat this episode to death like we
0:11:08did with the pirates but the atmosphere
0:11:10that let's take it out the analogy
0:11:11atmosphere was good while the alley is
0:11:13where there's the big a pile of garbage
0:11:14cans that the old lady gets sucked
0:11:16into garbage bags matter how much and I
0:11:19got that you were terrified it's like
0:11:21that the garbage bag sucker in and then
0:11:23she got that it didn't really make a lot
0:11:25of sense
0:11:26no no and married british shows always
0:11:29have that old lady is that the rule
0:11:31yeah absolutely yes well there's a lot
0:11:32of actor older actors who need work and
0:11:34the government make sure that their
0:11:35employees trip that's called socialism
0:11:37socialism miss that's the Miss Marple
0:11:39Little Miss Marple right i don't i just
0:11:42isn't making sense again it was it was
0:11:44all the all the things you expect to see
0:11:46in as a creepy story and and it's meant
0:11:49to be scary music scary and something
0:11:51happens except it was kind of randomly
0:11:53placed didn't and you know it didn't
0:11:55hold together to me and and we don't
0:11:57forget the great line there is one great
0:11:59line of this and say Jason you know what
0:12:01it is we're dead again
0:12:03no they're worried feeling like they're
0:12:07actually both dead and all that you know
0:12:10there are some there are some those were
0:12:12nice moments but yeah I didn't do it for
0:12:14me at all
0:12:15it was it was a real i don't think was
0:12:17bad like I think the pirate episode was
0:12:20bad but I pirate episode gets more of
0:12:23our hate because the pirate episode had
0:12:26like a bigger budget and they have
0:12:27pirates what you can do something with
0:12:29and they have with sadness was just like
0:12:31it pirates and an alien spaceship this
0:12:33had the apartment building
0:12:35so this is at least didn't squander its
0:12:37potential really had none and i think
0:12:39that the the doctor and the the father
0:12:42had nice moments i was enjoying a doctor
0:12:44is trying to explain to people who do
0:12:46not know who he is what he is and what
0:12:48he does i was find that fascinating and
0:12:51the guise of being from like the
0:12:53government it right exactly and he's
0:12:55like where's your little finger forces i
0:12:57like to think it's like look into my
0:12:58eyes and you're like that's so that's
0:13:00actually not exactly call back but
0:13:02that's a hitchhiker's guide moment
0:13:03there's a bit where for drip prefect
0:13:05looks at the barman before the earth is
0:13:07blown up and it looks a bit of angst
0:13:10about being away from home and it says
0:13:12like this us every creature universe and
0:13:14it's a subliminal signal and times of
0:13:16stress that indicates precisely how far
0:13:18they were far away from other born but
0:13:20the earth you can never be very far away
0:13:21but he was from beetlejuice
0:13:22so he looked at the bar minus the barman
0:13:24felt every inch of the
0:13:26over many light-years he was and
0:13:27believed him and I thought it was that
0:13:29same look into my eyes
0:13:31these eyes have seen many things alright
0:13:33alright i guess we should speak no more
0:13:34about this episode and I have one more
0:13:37thing we have to do one more complaint
0:13:39hold excellent up but I don't like it
0:13:41thick
0:13:41remember when we were stuck on that
0:13:43right we're at the end of every episode
0:13:44that the doctor had to look at the
0:13:45screen with the program not pregnant ya
0:13:47missed me now the new thing is at the
0:13:50end of every episode yes look at the
0:13:52screen and see is little death date card
0:13:54from from the archives at the screen
0:13:56which miraculously the camera can see
0:13:58the doctor can see we can see but the
0:14:00people standing two feet to his left
0:14:01cannot see for some reason what are you
0:14:03looking at honest with his ring shield
0:14:05on it it's literally distortion so so
0:14:07here's a funny thing about that episode
0:14:09is it was shot as part of the first
0:14:11block of the series along with the neil
0:14:14gaiman episode and then they delayed it
0:14:16i think because they're they're
0:14:18basically both episodes where people run
0:14:21around dark quarters
0:14:22I mean really that and and I i suspect
0:14:26maybe that scene was really written to
0:14:27have it be the Amy pregnant pregnant and
0:14:31then they had to change it in order to
0:14:32change people like basically just happy
0:14:34I episode the doctor seeing a screen
0:14:36that no one else can see even though
0:14:37they're standing right next to what's on
0:14:38the screen can change it also explains
0:14:40why Amy and Rory don't spend any time
0:14:42dwelling on the fact that they just
0:14:44discovered all these things about their
0:14:46daughter who they grew up with now and
0:14:48yes now river so that's sort of like we
0:14:50don't think about that so so which I
0:14:53like from a standalone perspective and I
0:14:55don't like in a sense that it did feel
0:14:57awfully charring because if if we're
0:14:58gonna spend every episode dwelling on
0:15:00oh wow he's gonna die but we can't tell
0:15:03him why would we spend any time dwelling
0:15:05on the fact that you know our little
0:15:06baby that we just had is never going to
0:15:08grow up with us as their parents because
0:15:11of time-traveling Jana it just seems
0:15:13really weird that they would do that
0:15:15with the one thing and not the other
0:15:18all right now we have used our art
0:15:26artists to move across time streams or
0:15:29something like that we've gone for the
0:15:30green anchor to the red waterfall so now
0:15:33i want to ask the members of our red
0:15:35waterfall cult contention damn and ran
0:15:38who don't know what we think here in the
0:15:42green anchor double-blind about about
0:15:45the night terrors episode what they
0:15:47thought of of night terrors before we
0:15:50move on and we will tell them if their
0:15:52opinion is correct
0:15:54huh or we dad ran what did you think of
0:15:57of night terrorist Marcus's episode you
0:16:00know go ahead simultaneously be only one
0:16:05another
0:16:06no I i actually I decently liked the
0:16:09episode and I thought it was just creepy
0:16:11enough and it was kind of fun standalone
0:16:13I my only question was i was unsure
0:16:16about the how the alien kids fan it
0:16:21because it was all in his mind right or
0:16:22something along those lines where he was
0:16:24he was turning these things into big
0:16:26bads and I'm like well if he's if he's
0:16:29turning you know if he's making all this
0:16:31why can't he shut it off and what did
0:16:33the dr really do that's the magic you
0:16:36know was it really just the parents had
0:16:37to say oh yes we love you we're not
0:16:39going to leave you and then all of them
0:16:40go away like i was very confused by that
0:16:42but that that problem with it aside I
0:16:45thought it was actually quite fun and
0:16:47quite spooky i really liked it
0:16:51yeah i guess i'm in the minority here I
0:16:54thought that there were something
0:16:56effectively atmospheric about a lot of
0:16:59it i like to be the interior of the
0:17:01house and I liked that it was a puzzle
0:17:03that i didn't i didn't entirely figure
0:17:06out really as it was going on I mean I
0:17:09started to get clues i started to make
0:17:10sort of assumptions based on what i
0:17:12thought was going on and yet some of it
0:17:14comes out as a bit of a you know a
0:17:16backfill in terms of how is this alien
0:17:18kid or whatever and and that was the
0:17:20part of it i did not like as much but
0:17:22the atmosphere part in the beginning
0:17:23where you're trying to figure out what's
0:17:25going on i love the doctors back and
0:17:27forth about trying to decide whether or
0:17:28not to open the cupboard where he's
0:17:31kinda arguing
0:17:32going forward over the governor what we
0:17:33have to open the cover you know like I
0:17:35thought the the report there between him
0:17:37and the father was really was really
0:17:38funny anomaly
0:17:40were you surprised or shocked about the
0:17:43fact that they were in a dollhouse
0:17:44namely that not now that's not that I
0:17:47you know I picked up on that one pretty
0:17:49pretty quickly
0:17:50ok but I was ok but I mean you know why
0:17:53you know that was still up in the air
0:17:54like I like the kid I thought he was he
0:17:57was sufficiently cute kid was yeah
0:17:59really creepy and sufficiently cute yeah
0:18:01you know I i love the setting to I just
0:18:03enjoy them walking around the town that
0:18:05council walks at night trying to figure
0:18:06out you know what the hell is going on i
0:18:09don't know i mean it wasn't you no it
0:18:11certainly was not the the best episode
0:18:13of Doctor Who but I thought that stacked
0:18:15up against a lot of the stuff again from
0:18:17the first half of the season
0:18:18pirates I thought to beat the pants off
0:18:21pirates and you know a lot of the the
0:18:25confusing back and forth with some of
0:18:26the other episodes in there I thought it
0:18:27was better than that my real really do
0:18:29feel like the the second half of the
0:18:31season has been superior to the first
0:18:33but I can see why knowing the
0:18:36probabilities of many of my fellow seems
0:18:38panel members why they wouldn't like it
0:18:41going to unsubscribe even Jason didn't
0:18:43like it's like Jason's very critical
0:18:45value it I i think the red I think the
0:18:47Red waterfall got a totally different
0:18:49episode the green acre it has to do with
0:18:51different times if we were focusing more
0:18:53on personality and atmosphere than
0:18:55actual mid-wilshire lot since you guys
0:18:58didn't hear what we said sophisticated
0:19:00over on the green anchor side i think i
0:19:03think there was some agreement that
0:19:04there was some atmosphere the problem
0:19:07was that that any analysis of what was
0:19:10going on beyond the atmosphere led to
0:19:13kind of a really what knows sometimes I
0:19:17feel like you just shouldn't analyze
0:19:19doctor who and just enjoy it as I was
0:19:21like watching other is let's straighten
0:19:23up this is what I was scary
0:19:25no I was scary it was a little bit scary
0:19:28here my seven-year-old son but I I
0:19:31wasn't applying a lot of deep analysis
0:19:33to it I was like really so the lady has
0:19:36been eaten by trash bags and the kids an
0:19:40alien but we never see him really do
0:19:43anything alien butt
0:19:44yeah he's an alien well that explains
0:19:46that he's going to meld into society
0:19:49right he's not school 30 alien like he
0:19:52does seem like there's another variety
0:19:53of other show like that remember feel
0:19:55like there's a star trek episode or
0:19:56something because i can get everybody
0:19:58like who all there is all reality around
0:20:00in there
0:20:01yes isn't it yeah takes over Jonathan
0:20:02trucks life because he's a father and he
0:20:05stuck in some say I thought he was going
0:20:07for Charlie and I was imagining angel
0:20:09and the next generation know the next
0:20:12generation to me where you know because
0:20:13there is wakes up and thinks it's a
0:20:15right experience got the kids like a
0:20:17space for I don't know I just I i SAT
0:20:19there thinking yeah they're dolls
0:20:21they're not that creepy and they don't
0:20:24they're not threatening because they
0:20:25turn you into dolls but they turning me
0:20:28into a doll and so you know that it's
0:20:30amy dollars creates not permanent and
0:20:32there's no so so it did it just didn't
0:20:35work at all what level you doing playing
0:20:37with dolls that's the others request wow
0:20:40that's not but that leaves early edition
0:20:42sure about the future
0:20:44come on in the future because of the
0:20:46council flat yeah nobody made that for
0:20:50the future really do it if ya really
0:20:53really early and garbage BBC red
0:20:56waterfall has a better budget than BBC
0:20:58greena just much all there is to it was
0:21:01just enjoying a the delay water quality
0:21:04at the moment he visited the five
0:21:06minutes of the episode that it felt like
0:21:08to us to a full 40 minutes yeah that's
0:21:11why I just ran around and in the
0:21:13dollhouse and the house and then we can
0:21:16all travel together they would run away
0:21:17again unlike unlike some of the earlier
0:21:20episodes and our point fingers at
0:21:21pirates again there's no point in this
0:21:23episode I felt like bored LOL understand
0:21:25Danny other ones me was like yeah let me
0:21:27just check twitter while I'm watching
0:21:28this whatever it was really young I felt
0:21:30kind of wrap the Pirates was not as good
0:21:32as that's a low point for media in this
0:21:35is that Steven Moffat I think I enjoyed
0:21:37pirates more
0:21:38oh hang on oh gosh I don't think iris
0:21:41was a better episode but i think i think
0:21:43i enjoyed it more mostly because unlike
0:21:45a look there a pirate ship Umi Skyward
0:21:47Sword don't get me wrong I just you know
0:21:49I just like both of strongly I'm just
0:21:51saying out if I had to choose which one
0:21:53you made me watch one of them again
0:21:54which one would i choose also if one of
0:21:56the episodes was outside of the targets
0:21:58while you're inside you will find any i
0:22:00would agree the Doctor Who pirates was
0:22:02better than the walter matthau pirates i
0:22:04will agree with that but not better than
0:22:06Gilbert and Sullivan pirates what
0:22:08happened not a 979 john templayer or
0:22:12pilates pilates is better than that
0:22:13pirates Iraqis karate skills along now
0:22:18that's a great workout by the way it
0:22:20really works your are okay and on that
0:22:23note I'm going to press the red button
0:22:24at the bottom because who wouldn't press
0:22:26the red button and we're going to switch
0:22:27back out of this timestream and had to
0:22:30move over to be other let's move on to
0:22:40the most recent episode of Doctor Who
0:22:44which is the girl who waited is what you
0:22:49think
0:22:50can I get my premise complaining out of
0:22:53the way first so you can talk about the
0:22:55meat of the episode without it I usually
0:22:57if I have lots of negative things to say
0:22:59i like to save you for last to see if I
0:23:01can guess the negative things are going
0:23:03okay Fargo but i don't but i don't have
0:23:05a lot of negative things about this
0:23:07episode so I would like you to get it
0:23:08all out now this is mostly just promise
0:23:10whining so yeah and possibly can i
0:23:12usually don't BB scholarly wisdom of
0:23:15Glenn will educate me about what I was
0:23:17missing this episode i didn't watch it i
0:23:19did watch it twice
0:23:20exactly so maybe really was as dumb as I
0:23:22thought maybe i just missed something
0:23:23entirely sorry on scholarly to be asking
0:23:26for your first business
0:23:27alright so there's a disease on this
0:23:29planet right this trend seven thing i'd
0:23:31only affects people with two hearts I
0:23:33and if the doctor gets it he'll die any
0:23:35can regenerate right because that
0:23:37increases jeopardy that are well and
0:23:40also because they this is the doctor
0:23:42light episode many of them to stay on
0:23:43the target set so they could shoot him
0:23:45in a day and then have him go to the
0:23:46right that's also that bothers me a
0:23:49little bit of that I want to see that
0:23:50behind the same things right so the two
0:23:52rooms thing the the explanation they
0:23:54eventually come to the two rooms is that
0:23:56you've got the disease speed they got 24
0:23:59hours to live so what you do you take
0:24:00the people with the disease you put them
0:24:02into different
0:24:02science time stream so that 24 hours for
0:24:06the people where they came from is like
0:24:08their lifetime and then you can see each
0:24:10other through the hourglass thing so you
0:24:11can say our poor daughter she had the
0:24:13disease but you to the time screaming
0:24:14now we can look at her and we can watch
0:24:16her live her entire life and we'll have
0:24:17a full and healthy life so you know our
0:24:20daughter doesn't die in 24 hours instead
0:24:22she has a full life now if you take
0:24:25someone who has the disease is going to
0:24:26kill them for hours and you put them in
0:24:28a different time stream doesn't don't
0:24:29they still die in 24 hours to the germs
0:24:31stick to the rules of the old-time
0:24:33string the drumset oh my god wall you
0:24:34know we're weird germs from the old-time
0:24:36scream I know you're in a new time
0:24:37screen where you're going to live for a
0:24:38lifetime but we're going to honor the
0:24:40rules of the old-time makes no freaking
0:24:42cent worth the only missing some
0:24:44woodworking the opposite way that what
0:24:45you do is you have that doesn't make any
0:24:48sense no it wasn't i can't figure it out
0:24:50I I there's a central conceit that was
0:24:53missing because there was is the doctor
0:24:55says oh she hadn't eaten for a week
0:24:57because she wasn't hungry he said
0:24:58overtime is compressed ready Caldwell
0:25:00has joined us by the way she has come
0:25:01back from the the the waterfall we were
0:25:04you gonna say
0:25:05ok so from what I could tell the red
0:25:08waterfall multiple time streams are not
0:25:10actually you know 99 years worth of time
0:25:13stream it is 24 hours it's just the
0:25:16perception of how time passes is
0:25:19lengthened at least what I like where it
0:25:22was just it's it's an outward effect
0:25:25that makes the body i assume the disease
0:25:28is something that makes the body age and
0:25:30then it's just a 24-hour sort of
0:25:32perception filter magnitude in there for
0:25:35a week ago I know but I'm saying maybe
0:25:38lose their 40 years and her Bob the ages
0:25:41and get the wrinkly wouldn't the disease
0:25:43progressing to kill them in 24 hours
0:25:45yeah well I was my initial sort of
0:25:48thought was oh the disease just makes
0:25:50the manager rapidly but Amy doesn't have
0:25:52the disease so I don't know I'm just
0:25:54going with weird time perception filter
0:25:56that also makes them age but it's not
0:25:59actually time again I don't harp on the
0:26:01purpose because they just want to set up
0:26:02a situation that will let them have the
0:26:04actual story right
0:26:05yes it but they like I complain when
0:26:08they don't do a good job explaining
0:26:08their their setup and they just it was
0:26:11just reinforces the final thing was
0:26:13those dr. things that kill you like
0:26:15worst dr. robot
0:26:16whatever I mean it don't they adjust
0:26:18dosages for infants and stuff they can
0:26:19tell this is a different species all
0:26:21well medicated maybe that's not be
0:26:23involved there are many things wrong
0:26:25with those robots national someone I i
0:26:28assume that the that the planet is I
0:26:30mean they say in the beginning of the
0:26:31planets quarantine so in theory that
0:26:34there wouldn't be any kind of alien life
0:26:36landing on it so i imagine that those
0:26:38robots were programmed basically as soon
0:26:39as the thing was quarantined and you
0:26:41know only only I know I'm
0:26:44over-explaining something they didn't
0:26:45explain properly and i'm estimating but
0:26:48it's still available on the episode but
0:26:50I still confused as to why anyone who is
0:26:52designing a robot would say okay let's
0:26:55give it some sensors but will only put
0:26:58them in their hands
0:26:59budget cuts it's not a doctor can have
0:27:02something to explain they did a lot of
0:27:04quick explanations of things that are
0:27:06sick
0:27:06that's just like I've got two sentences
0:27:08to explain this major plot points we can
0:27:10move on to the real story and there were
0:27:12several of those including why this
0:27:13thing has no faith why everything is all
0:27:16white
0:27:16why they have different time streams
0:27:18what I mean they start since gonna get a
0:27:21lot of money on this thing would be no
0:27:23just a bucket of white paint and a
0:27:25novelty magnifying glass from like the
0:27:27song outside of ignited see the other
0:27:30thing that got me though I really
0:27:31actually really loved the emotional and
0:27:35content structure episode but i think
0:27:37that got me was a sort of um the issue
0:27:42that all the people who are in
0:27:43quarantine for living separate lives
0:27:46I'm like we're all gonna die no the
0:27:47plate once you put them together so they
0:27:50can share this 40 years or whatever
0:27:51they're going to get together instead of
0:27:53giving them isolated lonely lives unless
0:27:55i'm confused and they were all together
0:27:57except me because she did but they're
0:27:59talking about maintaining all of these
0:28:00separate times change everyone
0:28:01individually
0:28:02yeah they were separate time streams and
0:28:05I think the idea was you were supposed
0:28:06to use like the you know the the
0:28:09holodeck basically to entertain yourself
0:28:12it that it reminded me of the TV show
0:28:16off our escape in the seventh at me they
0:28:19would have these bizarre things that
0:28:21oftentimes in farscape you'd also see it
0:28:23in the middle of the action and and they
0:28:25would kind of mention that this was the
0:28:27setup
0:28:28and it was very clearly the message was
0:28:30just it's weird and this is what you do
0:28:33they have to do and we're not going to
0:28:35explain why and I felt like there was
0:28:37enough hand-waving hear that your brain
0:28:39starts to try and grab onto it and be
0:28:40like well why is this happening instead
0:28:43of you know anything you have that
0:28:45choice of trying to make sense of it are
0:28:46saying alright well it's kind of cool
0:28:48there's always white rooms and they're
0:28:49two different time streams and it's
0:28:50weird and then there's a story because I
0:28:53i enjoyed the episode actually quite a
0:28:55lot but I i completely agree and I
0:28:57figured this is how it would go actually
0:28:59that with all yet it didn't make any
0:29:01sense the the setup didn't really just
0:29:05it doesn't compute
0:29:06I have this is the showrunner problem
0:29:08because any of the four of us could have
0:29:09come up with a very simple Doctor Who
0:29:11consistent explanation that would have
0:29:13been like I don't know like well Oh in
0:29:15the you know the disease progresses
0:29:16normally but there's a technique where
0:29:17if you know the clerk temporal energy
0:29:19flux allows them they have to be kept
0:29:22separate and maintained through these
0:29:25separate paradox engines that one the
0:29:27Pirates i like about about doctor who is
0:29:30its attempt a lot of times to either not
0:29:33do technobabble or to simplify it to a
0:29:35ridiculous extend like like even the
0:29:37very first episode of the reboot
0:29:39christopher eccleston says it's it's a
0:29:42being of living plastic and i'm going to
0:29:44kill it
0:29:44Rose what are you gonna do that he holds
0:29:46above a test tube and says auntie
0:29:48plastic paper and that's it
0:29:50Ryan necessary and that its brief
0:29:52beautiful after all crushing
0:29:53technobabble of some sci-fi TV shows I
0:29:56so I like that about it that you know
0:29:58they are more inclined to find some
0:29:59super simplified way of saying well this
0:30:01is how it is right really fast in a
0:30:03English accent that I don't understand
0:30:05and then we move on it could be because
0:30:07we had over the river and stream if we
0:30:09hold them in their own time stream the
0:30:11time energy lets them live 40 years
0:30:13well you know what no you're perfectly
0:30:15honest I wouldn't be surprised if that
0:30:16wasn't in the script originally and got
0:30:19overtime because you know the whole
0:30:21thing is that we know what they want to
0:30:22do in this episode they want to have all
0:30:24day me and you Amy there's no reason to
0:30:26like overcomplicated with the full
0:30:27Doctor Who's episode a jam it in so you
0:30:31can fit in a good solid 40 minutes of
0:30:32the story you want to tell give us a
0:30:34simple premise that gives us all day
0:30:35mean no I mean go with the show they
0:30:37just spent a lot of wheels like it
0:30:39wasn't that kind of episode is a
0:30:40beautiful that is a beautiful episode i
0:30:42think
0:30:42that's right i think i think the more is
0:30:44than trying to give us a framework but I
0:30:46was I mean I was really I was touched by
0:30:48this i was saying earlier watched it
0:30:50twice today because I felt like I'd
0:30:52missed like the emotional nuance not the
0:30:54plot nuances in some episodes I was just
0:30:57gonna say I'm gonna hand it to to Karen
0:30:59Gilliam here because you know she's been
0:31:01displaying summers are back and chops
0:31:04throughout the the first couple series
0:31:05which we've all given our group for but
0:31:07the the nuances between old Amy and new
0:31:10Amy are actually really quite striking
0:31:12especially on second viewing just in
0:31:14terms of the way that her voice patterns
0:31:17work in the the way she says thanks it's
0:31:18very it's actually really really
0:31:20impressive
0:31:21joining us now again from the red
0:31:23waterfall is dave morin idea and thanks
0:31:25for joining us
0:31:26you promised you'd save me jason from
0:31:29your separate timestream is this 50-year
0:31:31old man or seven-year-old an abstract
0:31:33it's 19 I get mad because I wrinkly hey
0:31:35watch your hands to yourself models are
0:31:39so I aside from the premise of the girl
0:31:41who waited i mean i i've heard some
0:31:43positive thoughts about III really i did
0:31:46like it arm I kept wanting to love it
0:31:50am i I'm not sure I got there I i like
0:31:53most of it the premise again was just
0:31:54sort of like all right I'm just gonna go
0:31:56with it after a while and there was some
0:31:58part of the resolution where the doctor
0:32:00has Rory like plug things into slots and
0:32:03it's two other kind of plugging of
0:32:05things in order to resolve leverage with
0:32:07the robot is another thing for the site
0:32:09kind of episode yeah yeahs what it
0:32:11seemed that kind of episode unnecessary
0:32:13and and that led me down a little bit
0:32:15but but the character stuff and that
0:32:17that that core premise of you know Amy
0:32:21what happens if if you end up realizing
0:32:24that you missed a me by 40 years and
0:32:27you've got the opportunity to erase all
0:32:31that time but she's lived it
0:32:33that was great and the whole interaction
0:32:35your karen gillan to to Rennes point
0:32:38I've got a really good performance from
0:32:40her in in both parts actually to show
0:32:42some depth Amy the moment where she gets
0:32:45out her lipstick and she see her husband
0:32:47she hasn't seen for 40 years and then
0:32:49just kind of was like no no and puts it
0:32:51away
0:32:51this is just really great stuff at the
0:32:53heart of this episode if you can
0:32:56kind of get past the kind of weird is it
0:32:59up
0:33:00I mean but it's you know I think this is
0:33:02the the sort of the central dilemma
0:33:04we've talked about with Doctor Who a lot
0:33:05especially with the Steven Moffat
0:33:07seasons is is it you know science
0:33:09fiction or is it something else more
0:33:11like a fairytale you know where things
0:33:13don't necessarily have to you know
0:33:15entirely make sense even I mean I you
0:33:18know you mentioned that plugging things
0:33:19in apartments that's really bother me i
0:33:21thought well how you gonna resolve that
0:33:22ok something ridiculous like that of
0:33:23course that's how you resolve this
0:33:24you're not going to like nitty-gritty
0:33:25technical science cds hit details
0:33:27because no one cares mean that though
0:33:29the core of the stories are saying about
0:33:31the characters and and I you know along
0:33:33those lines I think you know adding
0:33:35saying nice things about Arthur Darvill
0:33:38who I think Rory has this season really
0:33:40come into his own and especially in the
0:33:41last few episodes i think they've really
0:33:44sort of finally got the handle on what
0:33:46to do with him and he gets off the best
0:33:47line in the episode which is to my mind
0:33:50which is to sell the doctor you're
0:33:51turning me into you right which i think
0:33:54is the most damning thing to you know
0:33:55hey this is another one of those
0:33:57episodes where we get a look at the side
0:33:59of the doctor that's not you know saving
0:34:02everybody and helping everybody if
0:34:05people coming around Rory are people
0:34:07becoming Rory fans I really and I is
0:34:09starting i think probably with
0:34:11especially the beginning of the
0:34:14two-parter the one word that that scene
0:34:16he gets to come in and talk to all the
0:34:18Cybermen kind of threatened them i think
0:34:19starting there and and sort of moving
0:34:22forward in the last couple episodes I
0:34:23have become increasingly a fan of him
0:34:25but i think you know I think he's
0:34:27finally gotten a place beyond just OS he
0:34:29sort of this boy you know you sort of
0:34:32there just to provide a love triangle
0:34:33because I think we've clearly gotten in
0:34:35the whole you know this episode
0:34:37especially we've gotten well past the
0:34:39love triangle right thank ya
0:34:41this is entirely about Rory and Amy's
0:34:44relationship and Rory's the thing that
0:34:45brings her around and I think that says
0:34:48once and you know it certainly
0:34:50conclusively that this is these to have
0:34:52such a profound meaningful relationship
0:34:54we got some really nice little flashback
0:34:55stuff in there too right
0:34:57like but i am still a little sick and
0:35:00tired of being constantly reminded that
0:35:02Rory and you know the enemy love each
0:35:05other out
0:35:06you get these universes ever know he's
0:35:08got all your amazing balance the balance
0:35:11from the beginning where Rory just
0:35:13seemed annoying and your kind of like
0:35:15wait why is it always you know Rory
0:35:17still see the boys
0:35:18yeah is this is more annoying moments
0:35:21when you're right there
0:35:22they're writing better giving him stuff
0:35:24to do but his character still bothers me
0:35:27a little bit
0:35:28oh I don't but now he's more stand-up
0:35:30and now he's you know he's the guy with
0:35:31two thousand years he's the guy who you
0:35:34know checked his wife down with the
0:35:35doctors help across you know and that
0:35:38reaches of space race become a bit of a
0:35:40badass
0:35:41he's also use there's a little bit of
0:35:42annoying but I actually the annoying has
0:35:43become kind of endearing because now you
0:35:46kind of see how it's shaping his
0:35:47character in like there's the part of
0:35:49the right that's a little bit annoying
0:35:50but the rest of him and the fact that he
0:35:52is pretty much a stand-up good heart of
0:35:54guy who just wants to you know do the
0:35:56best and things like that's it's a
0:35:58really interesting the way that they're
0:36:00showing off more of that and I didn't
0:36:01definitely in this episode as you're
0:36:04mentioning damn that last line in fact
0:36:06the whole relief the third act where he
0:36:08just is kind of horrified by the doctors
0:36:10actions and the doctor pretty much shows
0:36:12no more something that's a great
0:36:13character limit for oracle and he's he's
0:36:15a total goofball and we've kind of all
0:36:17known that since the beginning right but
0:36:19at the same time he shows off a
0:36:21something we're all accustomed to
0:36:24thinking of the doctor has sort of you
0:36:25know the heroic kind he's the guy who
0:36:28swoops in and saves the day and whatever
0:36:29but especially when we're setting him up
0:36:31more and more with this sort of you know
0:36:33that will it was really boys in with him
0:36:35but he has this darker side
0:36:37Rory represents I think more idealistic
0:36:39view of that of what good is rather than
0:36:43saying you know the doctors the one who
0:36:44has to make the hard decisions and
0:36:46sometimes those decisions are like sort
0:36:47of you know ends justify the means but
0:36:50worries there to provide sort of a
0:36:51counterpoint to the you know you have to
0:36:54do the right thing
0:36:55angled and maybe that's just the benefit
0:36:57of you know the doctors being 900 years
0:36:59old versus you know Rory but i think it
0:37:01provides an interesting dynamic these
0:37:03are two guys who are both trying to do
0:37:05the right thing but you know they have
0:37:07markedly different approaches and so dr.
0:37:09be another urself wery slip for 2,000
0:37:11years you mean
0:37:14or has more words of rick moranis I
0:37:17believe it good is dumb i was i thinking
0:37:21that exact same quote by me and Scott on
0:37:24the same way to like the night Karen O
0:37:26only bad come of this
0:37:29I'm frightened i started out in the
0:37:31beginning complaining about premise
0:37:32stuff which is silly and we already sort
0:37:34of it
0:37:35actual complaint not a complaint but
0:37:37it's something I noticed about it you
0:37:39meet this episode the good part right
0:37:41that the young the old Amy and all that
0:37:43business so I'm spring to lose my grip
0:37:46on why these two are with the doctor
0:37:49right because they talk about the things
0:37:51like he said well I don't want to travel
0:37:53with you anymore that's a choice you
0:37:54have to make and you're turning me into
0:37:55you and so on and so forth like that we
0:37:57have the kind of happy-go-lucky travels
0:37:59with the doctor episodes which are one
0:38:01thing but when these horrible things
0:38:03start happening i would expect the
0:38:05happy-go-lucky travel to the doctor to
0:38:06be kind of hi I'm insane like I would
0:38:08expect living and traveling with the
0:38:10doctor to be affecting these people more
0:38:12profoundly and screwing them up because
0:38:14otherwise why they have with them if
0:38:15they're still well-adjusted in both love
0:38:17each other go get a farmhouse somewhere
0:38:18and live a happy life on whatever plans
0:38:20you had the option to travel with it
0:38:22also has a chain right so if you get the
0:38:24feeling it's irresistible draw we have
0:38:26to travel to the city manager dangerous
0:38:29dangerous attractive the thing I find
0:38:30interesting though about this is that
0:38:33this was in Hawaii know when premise
0:38:37this was supposed to be a happy-go-lucky
0:38:38episode because the doctor preface it
0:38:40with you know sparkling water falls and
0:38:43things like he's basically saying I'm
0:38:45gonna take you to a paradise planet
0:38:46after all the other crap that we've been
0:38:48through when it is rather than almost
0:38:50every episode starts with ok now we're
0:38:52going to go to a fantastic wonderful
0:38:55place so that you can explore exactly
0:38:58the Bliss of the innovation and maybe in
0:39:00between the episodes they go to those
0:39:01places obviously there's no conflict
0:39:03right but it's not it's whatever i would
0:39:05think these would be screwing them up
0:39:07more and i would like to see that in
0:39:09fact that we see kind of some of it like
0:39:10saying you're turning me into you and
0:39:12this is a horrible experience or
0:39:13whatever like I i would like to see that
0:39:15irresistible draw of seeing space that
0:39:17manifest in them and say well I need two
0:39:19sides of the same coin remember when
0:39:21Rose was like well should i go back with
0:39:22my family I mother there i got my
0:39:24boyfriend or should I go travel with
0:39:26this wonderful she had that conflict of
0:39:27like
0:39:28should I be a nice person on earth
0:39:29should I traveled the space person you
0:39:31could see the drugs seem to fall out in
0:39:33other cases to Martha for example who
0:39:35just decided to leave right because we
0:39:36can't she can't add with it and so I
0:39:38mean there's no saying that we won't see
0:39:39that with with Amy around maybe they
0:39:41have reached their breaking point yet
0:39:43ok everything has been this looks like a
0:39:45breaking point to me because it this
0:39:47episode back but what I mean we also
0:39:50have to remember they've already had
0:39:51TARDIS baby I mean what-what can go more
0:39:53wrong than that that's hardest baby
0:39:55doesn't even get a mention in the last
0:39:57one he had to kill his wife and this one
0:39:58is one of his wives you know version of
0:40:00his life matters and what is their first
0:40:04baby come in earlier this episode and he
0:40:08keeps time she keeps duplicating oh yeah
0:40:11and I don't have the hardest baby no you
0:40:14have to kill his alternate version of
0:40:16his wife but he did it up due to a
0:40:18betrayal of the doctor which is
0:40:20something we haven't seen before so
0:40:21direct so I'm going to explicitly lie to
0:40:23you to make the resolution that I want
0:40:25to happen even though they're not the
0:40:26one that you want to happen you thought
0:40:27you were talking about deliver the
0:40:28doctor lies John yes this excellent the
0:40:32first episode where he's lied in such a
0:40:34way that you have to kill you have to
0:40:36terminate beyond that and that was just
0:40:38my little scene to rain just dive right
0:40:41saw what was coming soon as you're
0:40:42standing there the door and yet i still
0:40:44find myself unable to believe that he
0:40:46actually did it but Rory is Ricky not a
0:40:49degree of making these decisions right
0:40:51he cannot run you cannot make that kind
0:40:52of decision clearly the doctors said
0:40:55yeah he handles what way me but also not
0:40:59anything he told him to do it yeah so he
0:41:01didn't really make the decision he
0:41:02always is
0:41:03he's waiting for other people to tell
0:41:05him what to do he's like it you know an
0:41:08idiot in the time I don't know about
0:41:10that but I think the hearing Scots and
0:41:14overly arch yeah really great really
0:41:18listens to all angles and he thinks
0:41:20about it more than everybody else amy is
0:41:22definitely the rash when he's the moral
0:41:24know he's the moral compass you know a
0:41:26lot of the Companions travelling in the
0:41:28TARDIS as a nurse he should be able to
0:41:30make instant life-and-death decisions
0:41:32based on intuition that that's the one
0:41:33thing like sometimes he acts like a
0:41:34nurse and sometimes he doesn't i prefer
0:41:36to hear
0:41:36allowing nurse that's the something come
0:41:38now let's not insult that okay yeah how
0:41:41many times when you're a nurse you have
0:41:42to decide whether they kill your new
0:41:43wife or your old boy freely like you
0:41:45don't come up every day every day it'll
0:41:47be an integral and hospitals the
0:41:49beautiful thing in this episode those I
0:41:51thought if this is this is one of the
0:41:52central sci-fi premises is the basis of
0:41:55consciousness what is the person what is
0:41:56the continuation of nature of
0:41:58consciousness and if you erase someone's
0:42:00memories for 40 years and you give them
0:42:02a young body you give them a new body
0:42:03move the brain / you duplicate them but
0:42:06there's Wi-Fi is full of these ideas
0:42:08about how you know where's the soul of
0:42:11what is consciousness what is you know
0:42:13we know all those things and I thought
0:42:15this was a great examination of a of a
0:42:18piece of it and it's that's the thing i
0:42:20like is she was strong in the sense of
0:42:23knowing that she was going to lose that
0:42:24entire entire life would not just winds
0:42:26die soon no longer exists which is sort
0:42:28of the the horror of some of the whole
0:42:31arc before to the whole the universe and
0:42:33last season so here's my question she it
0:42:36is not that she just stops existing she
0:42:38never did exist so distraught over her
0:42:40will they not remember that happened but
0:42:43they're outside anything out of that
0:42:44episode where we will remember they can
0:42:48really just cutters today just cut her
0:42:49off and while she didn't she got for her
0:42:52timestream disappear like she chose to
0:42:54die at the hands of the little stupid
0:42:56medical robots instead of letting
0:42:58herself be really know what I wanted to
0:43:00raise that she's fading away that last
0:43:02shot
0:43:03yeah just just please get off here's the
0:43:05thing that I want to see I want to see a
0:43:07conclusion episode in which every
0:43:08alternate evil duplicated killed self of
0:43:13theirs that they've left behind shows up
0:43:16like that are stories is it sounds like
0:43:18a very bad idea
0:43:20adorables army Hey look I mean look at
0:43:22the upside Rory didn't even die in the
0:43:24subs just barely know that's impressive
0:43:27that I need to get he did get bopped on
0:43:29the head by one of those one of those
0:43:31white guys involved in fact yes the hand
0:43:35bots I i do have to say I really feel
0:43:37like the only reason the hand box on
0:43:39this episode is so that we could have a
0:43:41high five that kills them because stupid
0:43:44well there's also be insulting you need
0:43:46Wilson I'm sorry Rory in
0:43:48her hideaway yeah she having sex with
0:43:50that robot that's the question of where
0:43:51did you get the batteries
0:43:53I'm just saying that was quite you see
0:43:56that robot you see hurry you think she
0:43:59had looked yet mascara she could find if
0:44:00she could find a katana I'm sure she
0:44:02could find a magic marker
0:44:04oh yeah that's true that's not with
0:44:06chocolate different Hardware because the
0:44:12Appalachians were whatever the name of
0:44:14that place was yeah yeah Johnny's were
0:44:17kappa said that's like the yeah yeah
0:44:20yeahs Apple recounts a fancy helpfully
0:44:23word this is another episode with really
0:44:27poorly designed ineffectual robots I
0:44:29don't understand what the point is they
0:44:30you know they do high-fives and it
0:44:32disables them you hit them with the Mona
0:44:33Lisa and they blah okay well um had a
0:44:37paper and release on paper but
0:44:40apparently did well there wasn't much
0:44:42accounts they couldn't afford the
0:44:43actually sir what banana which museum
0:44:46shop poster i work as a security guy
0:44:49right so you would think that the there
0:44:51Our Lives going to say oh you're an
0:44:53unauthorized guess but yet you can
0:44:55interact with the interface will tell
0:44:57you everything about the place it
0:44:59doesn't make any sense why me but yeah
0:45:00she does get logged in which was a
0:45:02little a little strange she gets welcome
0:45:04to the facility at first
0:45:05well I think it was more on yeah you
0:45:07always mortgage and the invading of the
0:45:09robots looks like I just like the anti
0:45:10bodies from the yeah everybody's at the
0:45:13hospital the antibodies were a lot
0:45:15scarier but you know speaking of the
0:45:17antibodies i was playing outside my wife
0:45:19play portal one recently and I realized
0:45:22they ripped off that line of like you
0:45:23know you will feel tingling sensation
0:45:24and death 101 hold almost works right
0:45:28Yes No from like it when you're going to
0:45:30like don't fall into the water you will
0:45:32experience rather followed by death was
0:45:34it was almost phrase exactly the same
0:45:36way but if you're gonna rip something
0:45:37off its place to do it
0:45:39great minds think absolutely the I don't
0:45:41know I thought the hand box looked a
0:45:43little bit like the design of Marvin in
0:45:46the ocean action of hitchhikers guide
0:45:48and although I i did like how they look
0:45:51and I liked the episode look I liked all
0:45:52the weight room isn't and sort of
0:45:55airport empty airport terminal feelings
0:45:58and you know I liked how it looked like
0:46:00how it was shot there are some
0:46:01interesting direction and and
0:46:04cinematography choices the back and
0:46:07forth between old Amy and Rory on either
0:46:10side of the target store where we sort
0:46:11of dissolved back and forth while they
0:46:14were talking was really good and there
0:46:15was a there were a bunch of wipes as
0:46:17transitions that was kind of stuff I
0:46:19haven't really seen on Doctor Who before
0:46:21so i really liked in addition to the
0:46:23kind of emotional content at the core of
0:46:26this episode i really liked how it
0:46:27looked again it was it was the this
0:46:30certain stuff didn't make sense to me
0:46:31but there are lots of things about it
0:46:33that I really liked what they came up
0:46:35with you thought you knew it was going
0:46:37to happen you figured the my assumption
0:46:39was so old amy has to sacrifice yourself
0:46:41for young Amy and I said what happens at
0:46:43all I mean she does in the end
0:46:44yes but she doesn't go willingly and she
0:46:46says that means she says that the
0:46:48beginning she weekends then she wants to
0:46:50make a deal and then at the door when
0:46:52she figures no other choice then she's
0:46:54willing finally to make the sacrifice
0:46:55but it is hard she is going screaming
0:46:58into that good night old and I'm like
0:46:59finally at last somebody who isn't just
0:47:02you know the noble sacrifice like she'd
0:47:04earned runs or live one of the things I
0:47:07really like about this episode is the
0:47:10huh
0:47:12they catch it the doctor and recounted
0:47:14at what we want to save Amy from the 36
0:47:18years of what you described as hell
0:47:20being here we can save you as a younger
0:47:24person from having to experience this
0:47:26and they can say that all they like but
0:47:29at the core of that and it's just clear
0:47:31and every moment that they're together
0:47:33that old Amy and Rory are together that
0:47:36what he's really doing is saying well of
0:47:38course i would prefer if you were my
0:47:40young wife than my old wife
0:47:41yeah which I would choose I would choose
0:47:43the one who hasn't aged and I don't even
0:47:45families many weekends
0:47:47oh no that's that's their I mean that is
0:47:49absolutely how can it not be there that
0:47:51that they will be he doesn't know her
0:47:54anymore really write like that yeah I
0:47:55don't know what everybody changes like I
0:47:58think it's the you know he he has a
0:47:59really hard time relating to those woman
0:48:01who's lived this 36 years he doesn't
0:48:03even want her to touch him you know when
0:48:05she first shows up right well get a
0:48:07little 2,000 years and then showed up
0:48:10for her so yeah this is always leaning
0:48:13over
0:48:13yeah i feel i feel like with with what I
0:48:17mean even say it in the episode where
0:48:19it's like well I wanted to grow old with
0:48:21you and the idea of losing all of those
0:48:23years I mean if you had you know the
0:48:26person you love more than anything if
0:48:27you had 20 years to spend with them
0:48:29before they died or 50 years to spend
0:48:31with them before they died you would
0:48:33want to naturally choose the 50 years
0:48:35and i love the fact that Lori still
0:48:37absolutely love with her
0:48:39I like the central premise of their love
0:48:41too because he's a cocky weird guy and
0:48:43you know and she's and she's a young
0:48:45hottie smarty pants with no job on earth
0:48:47you know she's right so she's not like
0:48:49this great prize in some ways just good
0:48:51looking at but she's really smart and
0:48:52there's but they're both they're both
0:48:55selfless they both do the right thing
0:48:56when called upon and i love the fact
0:48:57that that her descriptions like you know
0:49:00the it's more how love actually works
0:49:03I thought it was very honest way of
0:49:04talking about love actually works how
0:49:06two people fall in love and stay in love
0:49:08rather than that you know the shallower
0:49:10thing about you know is an
0:49:11attractiveness and then that's the thing
0:49:13that you stick with like no she's a
0:49:14little deeper than that and so is he and
0:49:16that's why she married this cocky guy
0:49:17and that's not a cocky we not he's not
0:49:21he's easygoing is now these TV cocky
0:49:25like in real life would be like with my
0:49:26answers but in the end there and puffy
0:49:29yes that everyone but oh now he's cocky
0:49:31yeah but it's still gonna keep on TV no
0:49:34one to see that you know I got back to
0:49:35maybe take on why
0:49:38Rory's dilemma between the young and the
0:49:40old my my feeling and all those scenes
0:49:42was that Rory's overwhelming feeling
0:49:45towards the old amy was that he couldn't
0:49:48help but empathize with the things that
0:49:51she's gone through and blame himself for
0:49:52that so she was always thought he was
0:49:54linked with taking the whole day because
0:49:55like oh my God look what I did look what
0:49:57she's been through and she still is the
0:49:58person that I love even though she's
0:50:00older so I didn't think ull I didn't
0:50:02think it was even entering his mind
0:50:03about in fact I think he was starting to
0:50:05toss the young Arrius this is the person
0:50:07I love and I've made her suffer so
0:50:09terribly it's kind of like you feel like
0:50:10you have to make amends for that our
0:50:13like comfort the person or make up for
0:50:15your career you know your failure
0:50:17previously so I thought he was gonna go
0:50:18with the old I mean I knew that would
0:50:20really happen is kind of rooting for in
0:50:21the back of my mind I would go with the
0:50:23olden right because because she deserves
0:50:25it she's suffered and she suffered to
0:50:26get and
0:50:27your fault you feel bad about cutting it
0:50:29all off his kind of cheating isn't it I
0:50:31mean yeah that while the rules of time
0:50:33travel that are supposed to be the rules
0:50:35right a doctor the doctor that's good
0:50:36responses she's not real and I'm like oh
0:50:38come on that's nothing the doctor
0:50:39actually felt the doctors actions were
0:50:41rather non-genuine at the end he pushes
0:50:44I'm sorry a Glock closes the door locks
0:50:46that any you know he says she's not real
0:50:49it's like once using the target once
0:50:51he's done that he sort of pretending to
0:50:52sever the timestream perhaps but if the
0:50:55doctor was out of character he's not
0:50:56times i don't know i think i think
0:50:58that's an extreme decision
0:51:00keep in mind he's already made her wait
0:51:01before right when she was a little girl
0:51:04I think I think the doctor in carriers
0:51:06from is willing to do that to her again
0:51:10and he will even if you have to cut off
0:51:12her too much true to do and i think i
0:51:14can even make an argument for
0:51:16self-delusion herself convincing at that
0:51:18point right
0:51:19he needs to tell himself that she's not
0:51:20real in order or else he's gonna have a
0:51:22real hard time thinking about you know
0:51:24what he's actually done a doctor can't
0:51:26come to come to guilt or bad terrible
0:51:28terrible things happen and practically
0:51:30speaking I want to see an old Amy for
0:51:31the remainder of the season gets back
0:51:32we're going elsewhere old make up the
0:51:35rest with the hottest fifty-year-old
0:51:37that you've ever seen yeah I lack an act
0:51:39but the rest of her was like those good
0:51:41old age makeup that I find my nose it
0:51:43was flat line i gotta say i love secret
0:51:46part of me was rooting for both of them
0:51:48to make it on the TARDIS because of that
0:51:50one section where she's like just pop by
0:51:53Christmas and Easter and I'm like man
0:51:55that would be a hilarious
0:51:57yeah subplot to have on doctor who is
0:51:59just old old Karen gallery hopping
0:52:01around the galaxy on her own
0:52:03well you know this reminds me a little
0:52:04bit of Elizabeth train sladen a bit like
0:52:07when when David tenantry meets her and
0:52:10she's aged you know Sarah Jane is aged
0:52:13in the episode of this schoolhouse there
0:52:16and got lost
0:52:18hey yeah and it's into these younger
0:52:20right he's even gotten younger the last
0:52:22time last incarnation is probably and
0:52:24it's that same thing it's like the
0:52:25doctor keeps moving on coming on and
0:52:27he's met doctors met his match and
0:52:28marine Amy because they have messed up x
0:52:31James she's the one who rebuilds
0:52:33universe because she remembers he waits
0:52:35work with 2,000 years that's a different
0:52:37time stream
0:52:38she waits 40 years
0:52:40and is able to but I collapse of the
0:52:41time strange so he's actually i would
0:52:44argue that they have they have some a
0:52:46few different things up on him
0:52:48it always come back for the debt 800
0:52:49dodge I'm sorry only 15 whatever we
0:52:52haven't we haven't seen the other side
0:52:54off-screen yeah exactly that's ok you
0:52:56have killed again they can all of those
0:52:58honeymoon vacations that are off-screen
0:53:00as well so let me ask let me ask this
0:53:02because we've spent a lot of time on
0:53:04this episode did people all in all an
0:53:08imbalance did you did you enjoy it did
0:53:10you like it
0:53:11I did I i quite enjoyed it and besides
0:53:14like little little things here and there
0:53:16I still think it was a really
0:53:17interesting look at withhold Amy and you
0:53:21Amy and you know what
0:53:23as was it Scott are you saying that or
0:53:25was John were you saying about how how
0:53:28it's sort of pushing them to their
0:53:29breaking point about being with the
0:53:30doctor because I think that's definitely
0:53:32true in a way and you really do notice
0:53:34it may be said that of you gentlemen
0:53:36oh definitely well yeah because they're
0:53:38they're not going to stay with the
0:53:39doctor for I've ever do I mean but we
0:53:41didn't they keep coming to get him back
0:53:43right there's been two instances so far
0:53:45we're trying to signal memories from the
0:53:46signal them
0:53:47yeah they will have never existed very
0:53:50well just cut off a time stream right
0:53:52Scott did you like this episode I
0:53:54overall I did I really doctor who drives
0:53:57me crazy with the improbable I mean the
0:53:59very you know premises improbable but
0:54:01that you expect you accept certain
0:54:04things and then they just pushed a
0:54:05little too far but it was saved by all
0:54:08the emotional stuff I think emotional
0:54:11crap
0:54:11yeah they don't really care about TF
0:54:13girls like I I knew you were working
0:54:16with their stats here there's got I get
0:54:18I can tell United fast / removing I
0:54:21thought the whole the premise of it was
0:54:22very moving but they didn't need the
0:54:24stupid technology on top of it right
0:54:27John I think yeah so there were lots of
0:54:33horrible things in it but the the two
0:54:36amys the two amys part of it like the
0:54:38hardest of the episode I like episodes
0:54:40of Doctor Who where somebody does
0:54:42something horrible something horrible
0:54:44happens to someone else like I like them
0:54:45so that the doctor the doctor closing
0:54:47that door or its previous doctor who but
0:54:51yeah i wanna see I wanna really
0:54:53also those the two amys their make that
0:54:55episode for me I really did like her
0:54:57performance as the old Amy I thought it
0:54:58was convincing and good and not clichéd
0:55:01like if there was no sort of
0:55:03conciliatory oh it's okay we're still
0:55:05buddies like she was she was cold to him
0:55:07she was weird just messed up from being
0:55:09alone for a long time hated the doctor
0:55:11right and she didn't watch you didn't
0:55:13set is someone pointed out because you
0:55:14didn't sacrifice yourself for autistic
0:55:15no I want to live let me in the front
0:55:17artists on the hell you know it was all
0:55:20that was good and it redeemed the
0:55:21episode and put it over the fifty
0:55:22percent mark alright damn 51-percent I i
0:55:28really like this and in fact i think the
0:55:30entire this season which I thought
0:55:32started really weak as really
0:55:34transformed into a much stronger you
0:55:37know storyline after with that two-part
0:55:40starting with the two-parter with the
0:55:42the the baby and prevent revelations of
0:55:44our trunk and I thought that this week's
0:55:46episode and last week's episode were
0:55:47really I i enjoyed by both and i think
0:55:50i'm looking forward much more to the end
0:55:51of this season now and I I mean the
0:55:53improbability stuff doesn't bother me as
0:55:55much i'm terrible with potholes as
0:55:57anyone who's ever read anything I've
0:55:58written can attest I I just don't I you
0:56:02know I don't think about them as much I
0:56:03don't find myself worrying about them
0:56:04and so I am more invested in the
0:56:06character aspect of it and I thought
0:56:08this really delivered on fat and it was
0:56:10nice to see an episode that was even if
0:56:13it had sort of a weird premise for you
0:56:15know setting up this story it was all
0:56:17about the characters not about let's
0:56:19meet some random aliens in like you know
0:56:20hang out also has missed that part of
0:56:23the episode but when we were discussing
0:56:25we're trying to say it's not so much
0:56:26that we have the problems with the the
0:56:28plot that being full of holes in stuff
0:56:30like that today is that they wasted so
0:56:32much time on that stuff when this wasn't
0:56:35that kind of an episode like it they
0:56:36squandered the opportunity like it's not
0:56:38that they always it's always nonsensical
0:56:40and doesn't fit together whatever but
0:56:42don't dwell on it and don't make more
0:56:43complicated than you have to and don't
0:56:45waste time when you have this good this
0:56:46duel anything that's good you that
0:56:48should have been any more of the episode
0:56:50right calamitous that no more
0:56:52I I like I've had them genuine emotional
0:56:56content trademark it was a certified i
0:57:00know i found myself engaged and weeping
0:57:03at the end openly weeping I will say it
0:57:06and I thought it had a was a it was a
0:57:09genuine miss about the most about the
0:57:12relationships that you don't always get
0:57:14in any television and I think that's
0:57:16something that's always fascinated
0:57:17doctor who is the plots can be
0:57:19ridiculous but they sometimes captures
0:57:21perfect bit of selflessness or love or
0:57:24weirdness that that other shows don't
0:57:27that's why i watch it all right well we
0:57:31are going to step away for another maybe
0:57:36a couple of weeks for their I guess
0:57:37there are three more episodes of Doctor
0:57:39Who this up the season so more flash
0:57:42podcast to come until then I want to
0:57:44thank my many guests there seem to be
0:57:46more of them now than when we started
0:57:47it's very strange here so thanks to make
0:57:50this private thanks to Dan more'n thanks
0:57:53to surrender the cold well thanks to
0:57:55John siracusa and no thanks discovered
0:57:58weight and Peggy's got the guilty to
0:58:00until next time for the uncomfortable
0:58:03podcasts and jason still
0:58:05[Music]