The Incomparable

51: Zombie Marmaduke (Hugo Awards 2011)


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast number 51 [TS]

00:00:07   artists 2011 [TS]

00:00:11   we're back on the uncomfortable and it [TS]

00:00:13   is time for the book club or at least [TS]

00:00:15   the literacy club because we might even [TS]

00:00:16   talk about some things that aren't books [TS]

00:00:18   I'm Jason style i'm your host i'm joined [TS]

00:00:20   by the members of the literacy club Dan [TS]

00:00:23   Morris here hide am I is glad to be here [TS]

00:00:27   but I are glad I are glad to be here [TS]

00:00:30   Jason on and Fleischmann also joins us [TS]

00:00:33   hi Glenn [TS]

00:00:34   hi i can recognize at least 20 letters [TS]

00:00:36   that's good [TS]

00:00:37   well you gotta work there 10 more miles [TS]

00:00:39   or extra are you working on the vowels [TS]

00:00:41   i'm working on the right girl you like [TS]

00:00:44   to buy one [TS]

00:00:45   the sniper of Internet podcast comedies [TS]

00:00:48   I've arbys in the bushes [TS]

00:00:49   wait for it here he comes it's copic [TS]

00:00:51   multi-site Scott hello hello [TS]

00:00:55   I have nothing to say to that is that [TS]

00:00:56   the greatest introduction ever it is [TS]

00:00:58   that I families really funny [TS]

00:01:00   wait here it comes that's a jarhead [TS]

00:01:03   yes so I here so so in college in [TS]

00:01:07   college people would introduce i would [TS]

00:01:09   meet new people my friends would [TS]

00:01:10   introduce me to someone and they say [TS]

00:01:11   here Scott he's very funny and then they [TS]

00:01:14   would look at me and wait for me to say [TS]

00:01:17   something mr. rubber chicken man except [TS]

00:01:19   watermelon your hammer my friend tony [TS]

00:01:21   has a as a default response to that [TS]

00:01:23   which is just go glam makeup pics he's [TS]

00:01:28   so funny [TS]

00:01:29   yes so anyway we're not talking about [TS]

00:01:32   that or are we may be so this is right [TS]

00:01:34   so the number one item on the agenda in [TS]

00:01:37   this podcast is to talk about some [TS]

00:01:40   novels that were nominated for the hugo [TS]

00:01:42   award which is given out every year to [TS]

00:01:44   generally it's sci-fi although there are [TS]

00:01:47   some fantasy stuff that creeps in there [TS]

00:01:48   too and that they did this year there [TS]

00:01:50   are five nominees for the best novel [TS]

00:01:53   Hugo we have collectively read all of [TS]

00:01:57   them some of us have read some of them [TS]

00:01:59   some of us have not I i read all of them [TS]

00:02:01   i put in the water yeah yeah but aren't [TS]

00:02:04   you voting as well Jason I am voting now [TS]

00:02:07   they're gonna ask my ballot so we're [TS]

00:02:08   going to talk about these novels and [TS]

00:02:10   we're going to take them in turn and we [TS]

00:02:12   may throw in some short stories and [TS]

00:02:14   novels that came up as part of the hugo [TS]

00:02:16   processes well and so five best novel [TS]

00:02:18   nominees i guess i'll just take them in [TS]

00:02:21   order and we can talk about them those [TS]

00:02:23   who have read them may speak about the [TS]

00:02:24   middle [TS]

00:02:25   first one up those who have not read [TS]

00:02:27   them silence another shot outside and [TS]

00:02:29   actually I'd love to hear what you have [TS]

00:02:32   to say having not actually read that [TS]

00:02:33   book is great that would be a new kind [TS]

00:02:36   of podcast we could do this once we [TS]

00:02:37   haven't read my favorite opinions are [TS]

00:02:39   uninformed picture no book club blackout [TS]

00:02:43   and all clear two novels by connie [TS]

00:02:45   willis you know who is author author of [TS]

00:02:48   many good novels we talked about before [TS]

00:02:50   and she's won the hugo award before so [TS]

00:02:52   two novels it's really one story which [TS]

00:02:54   is why I was generated to get it i have [TS]

00:02:56   a funny story about that which is I read [TS]

00:02:57   the first book and I got to the like I [TS]

00:02:59   was getting close to the end oh it's a [TS]

00:03:01   long book is a big it's a big book and [TS]

00:03:03   i'm getting closer onli and they are [TS]

00:03:05   gonna have to work fast to wrap this up [TS]

00:03:07   i did not know until I got to the very [TS]

00:03:09   last page that there was a second part [TS]

00:03:11   coming look quite literally they just [TS]

00:03:13   took a novel and cut it yes basically [TS]

00:03:15   shit into books it's yeah it's that [TS]

00:03:17   feeling you get when you're 48 minutes [TS]

00:03:19   into an hour-long TV show and you [TS]

00:03:20   realize oh no this is not going to end [TS]

00:03:23   this is going to be to be continued yeah [TS]

00:03:25   they can't wrap this up [TS]

00:03:26   yeah so so its second world war two it's [TS]

00:03:29   about time travelers who go back to [TS]

00:03:31   study itself in the same universe is to [TS]

00:03:32   say nothing of the dog and domesday book [TS]

00:03:34   and the domesday book say nothing of the [TS]

00:03:37   dog very funny good book Tuesday book [TS]

00:03:39   other end of the spectrum that very [TS]

00:03:41   depressing also very good about the [TS]

00:03:43   black disc this was somewhere in the [TS]

00:03:45   middle for me really like it's not it's [TS]

00:03:47   got some very serious points right in [TS]

00:03:49   there there's some very serious [TS]

00:03:50   discussion of you know more time and you [TS]

00:03:54   know the prices people pay but it's not [TS]

00:03:57   it wasn't as Holy depressing as doomsday [TS]

00:04:00   book was no there's some there's some [TS]

00:04:02   amusing parts and then there's the whole [TS]

00:04:04   kind of carrion spirit that's going on [TS]

00:04:06   during the Blitz and it really is in [TS]

00:04:08   many ways so you know largely a [TS]

00:04:10   historical historical fiction has [TS]

00:04:12   outlets right i mean that's you've got [TS]

00:04:14   these these people from the future who [TS]

00:04:16   are stuck there but they're they're so [TS]

00:04:18   mired in real time that they just have [TS]

00:04:21   to live through the Blitz and so you've [TS]

00:04:23   got you know all these sort of slices of [TS]

00:04:25   life of people going around in London [TS]

00:04:27   and out in the countryside and and we're [TS]

00:04:30   working for the army during the Blitz [TS]

00:04:32   and as such it is interesting because it [TS]

00:04:34   does start you start to get this [TS]

00:04:35   impression of the interminable nature of [TS]

00:04:38   it [TS]

00:04:38   I you know there's so many the way that [TS]

00:04:41   the story is arranged narratively you [TS]

00:04:43   feel like you're undergoing something [TS]

00:04:45   you know if something traumatic and [TS]

00:04:46   catastrophic because it keeps dragging [TS]

00:04:49   on and we have this sort of plot line [TS]

00:04:50   for these characters who are stuck in [TS]

00:04:51   the past [TS]

00:04:52   keep thinking oh well we'll be rescued [TS]

00:04:55   soon and then it keeps going a lot but [TS]

00:05:00   one of the funny things happen is the [TS]

00:05:01   sort of these alternating timelines and [TS]

00:05:04   you end it [TS]

00:05:05   it's kind of hard to perceive of what [TS]

00:05:07   what's exactly going on that's like [TS]

00:05:09   they're telling sort of stories from [TS]

00:05:11   from earlier in the war and later in the [TS]

00:05:14   war and it turns out you know not to [TS]

00:05:17   give too much away [TS]

00:05:19   I you know we maybe we can avoid the [TS]

00:05:21   spoiler here but it turns out that some [TS]

00:05:24   of the characters you see are actually [TS]

00:05:27   it you see in the toward the end of the [TS]

00:05:30   war or actually characters you've seen [TS]

00:05:32   earlier in the war going under assumed [TS]

00:05:34   names so yeah that was kind of a that [TS]

00:05:37   did definitely confused me when it when [TS]

00:05:38   it finally got to be like because you [TS]

00:05:40   start you know very much that you're in [TS]

00:05:42   the heads of these three characters are [TS]

00:05:43   so who are really like you know you [TS]

00:05:45   realized okay they're from the future [TS]

00:05:47   they're going back in time there [TS]

00:05:48   historians they're there to do this [TS]

00:05:49   research and then there are a couple of [TS]

00:05:51   chapters thrown in where you're like but [TS]

00:05:54   who is who is this person like you all [TS]

00:05:56   the sudden you're not in their head [TS]

00:05:57   right you just observing them as they do [TS]

00:06:00   strange funny things they also seem to [TS]

00:06:02   know things right occasionally that you [TS]

00:06:04   know there's definitely an air and a [TS]

00:06:05   couple of places of like something's not [TS]

00:06:07   quite right with this parade or they're [TS]

00:06:08   hiding their hiding something [TS]

00:06:10   you get the sense of foreboding that [TS]

00:06:12   that something's really wrong and at the [TS]

00:06:13   end of the first book you definitely get [TS]

00:06:15   the feeling like you know something's [TS]

00:06:16   gone wrong and having trouble getting [TS]

00:06:17   back to the to the future and it you [TS]

00:06:22   know and that's and that's fine and [TS]

00:06:23   there in the second book I thought that [TS]

00:06:25   toward the end the you know she she is [TS]

00:06:27   not afraid to put characters in peril [TS]

00:06:30   and kill people off and have the [TS]

00:06:32   ramifications of of that I i thought [TS]

00:06:35   this book ended really well i was almost [TS]

00:06:38   ready to give us it late in the first [TS]

00:06:41   book in early in the second book and I [TS]

00:06:42   feel you know we can always talk about [TS]

00:06:45   how we could do a podcast about series [TS]

00:06:47   that disappoint us after the first book [TS]

00:06:49   this is a book that could be the start [TS]

00:06:51   of a whole new [TS]

00:06:52   cast which is books that needed an [TS]

00:06:53   editor yes books that needed a freaking [TS]

00:06:55   editor all gods so many like that [TS]

00:06:58   because this is too huge book it did not [TS]

00:07:01   need to be two books it was not two [TS]

00:07:03   books were yeah it absolutely non-book [TS]

00:07:05   really that could have been it should [TS]

00:07:07   have been trimmed down considerably and [TS]

00:07:09   I understand like I'm saying you know I [TS]

00:07:11   think there was a idea of like getting [TS]

00:07:13   across you just how scary and terrifying [TS]

00:07:15   it was to be stuck with no way out but [TS]

00:07:16   there were so many there's so many [TS]

00:07:18   arranged like yeah there's so many [TS]

00:07:21   arranged like closed mrs. Wright in [TS]

00:07:24   cases where they're like oh now these [TS]

00:07:26   two characters are going to meet up and [TS]

00:07:27   everybody the same town and then they [TS]

00:07:29   just miss each other and you're like [TS]

00:07:31   what and then you have to go like [TS]

00:07:33   another hundred pages before they [TS]

00:07:34   actually find each other you know so [TS]

00:07:36   some of those crosses are are funny and [TS]

00:07:39   some of them are are infuriating like [TS]

00:07:41   it's just you know just trying to [TS]

00:07:43   stretch things out the thing that got me [TS]

00:07:44   though that thing that really drove me [TS]

00:07:46   to almost operating was um you know [TS]

00:07:50   these people are from the future and so [TS]

00:07:51   they're concerned that even though [TS]

00:07:54   everything we've learned in all these [TS]

00:07:55   books about how going back in time is [TS]

00:07:58   that the universe doesn't allow you to [TS]

00:07:59   change change the timestream that if if [TS]

00:08:03   you were going to do something to change [TS]

00:08:04   time you just won't be able to go there [TS]

00:08:06   to do it so so you when you're a time [TS]

00:08:08   traveler you want to be careful but you [TS]

00:08:10   can't really change the future and yet [TS]

00:08:12   one of these characters in this little [TS]

00:08:14   yeah spends chapter after Chapter after [TS]

00:08:17   Chapter you spend in her head [TS]

00:08:19   we're all she's thinking is oh I need to [TS]

00:08:22   reach this person I need to tell him [TS]

00:08:23   this but I can't tell them this because [TS]

00:08:25   what if he knows this and I can't tell [TS]

00:08:26   them this because he what [TS]

00:08:27   and I'm I'm serious hundreds of pages [TS]

00:08:30   about a worrying about plot [TS]

00:08:33   ramifications about time travel that are [TS]

00:08:36   almost certainly not true and i just it [TS]

00:08:40   was it was a tricky like it's the same [TS]

00:08:42   notes as the problem right to hit the [TS]

00:08:44   same notes after time after time endless [TS]

00:08:47   yeah I really did feel like a dragon and [TS]

00:08:49   i agree like there's a great so I tell [TS]

00:08:51   mike should i not tell my co i can tell [TS]

00:08:53   i better not say anything [TS]

00:08:54   does he know does he does he no no he [TS]

00:08:56   doesn't know but I can't tell them yeah [TS]

00:08:58   it got it got a little bit got a little [TS]

00:09:00   bit frustrating and that's one of those [TS]

00:09:01   things where it's like it could have [TS]

00:09:02   been there is a good story in here there [TS]

00:09:04   really is it just [TS]

00:09:05   needed to be shout the the non sci-fi [TS]

00:09:08   elements are 50 they fascinate and as a [TS]

00:09:11   historical fiction right it's it's [TS]

00:09:13   fascinating like this you really get [TS]

00:09:15   that inside view and the drum at the end [TS]

00:09:18   where there are real stakes and kind of [TS]

00:09:20   really real sacrifices made toward the [TS]

00:09:22   end so that they can get home and and or [TS]

00:09:26   or have their story resolved in some way [TS]

00:09:29   you know rear end and then there's some [TS]

00:09:32   more kind of ships into into not not [TS]

00:09:35   their home future but you see things [TS]

00:09:37   sort of in the kind of our present-day [TS]

00:09:39   where they do some other characters [TS]

00:09:42   travel in there to try and do some [TS]

00:09:43   research about what happened to them [TS]

00:09:45   because they're trying to find them you [TS]

00:09:47   know that stuff was great too it's just [TS]

00:09:49   that there's that chunk in the middle [TS]

00:09:51   where it's just let's dwell on the worry [TS]

00:09:53   of time travelers and their anhui [TS]

00:09:55   existential if it was just awful [TS]

00:09:58   yeah and I and I think to a certain [TS]

00:10:00   degree a lot of this was accomplished [TS]

00:10:02   better in her previous books to write i [TS]

00:10:05   agree i mean she covered a lot of this [TS]

00:10:06   ground and to say nothing of the dog in [TS]

00:10:08   don't domesday book are both excellent [TS]

00:10:10   excellent books much better than this [TS]

00:10:12   one although this has got you know it's [TS]

00:10:13   a little like a mash-up that's it it's [TS]

00:10:15   like those two books mashed-up it and [TS]

00:10:17   then lots of historical stuff about the [TS]

00:10:18   Blitz which is really good [TS]

00:10:19   yeah so but yeah perplexing that it [TS]

00:10:22   ended up into books and that there was [TS]

00:10:24   nobody to say you know this should just [TS]

00:10:27   be shorter it's hard I mean I the ice [TS]

00:10:29   I imagine that after you you know she's [TS]

00:10:31   fairly accomplished as ray she's written [TS]

00:10:32   a lot of great books and I think it a [TS]

00:10:33   certain point maybe if you don't have [TS]

00:10:34   the the editor who's willing to stand up [TS]

00:10:36   to you you know or a lot of people [TS]

00:10:38   assume all you know she knows what she's [TS]

00:10:39   doing but even you know even good [TS]

00:10:41   writers need editors from time to time [TS]

00:10:43   alright so so that's blackout and all [TS]

00:10:45   clear redeeming redeeming qualities but [TS]

00:10:49   as kind of a long way to go [TS]

00:10:51   would that be kind of your site where i [TS]

00:10:52   would agree i would agree i I'm glad [TS]

00:10:54   that I'm not the only person who felt [TS]

00:10:55   that way because i was like maybe I'm [TS]

00:10:56   just not getting it like maybe I'm just [TS]

00:10:58   not as involved in this is I should be [TS]

00:11:00   but I I there was a lot there are a [TS]

00:11:02   couple points that really shine through [TS]

00:11:03   but if it did feel like that repeated [TS]

00:11:05   hammering of this point yes we get it [TS]

00:11:07   you're worried about this [TS]

00:11:08   ok move on third the last third of all [TS]

00:11:12   clear is just amazing it really is when [TS]

00:11:16   when it comes time to actually resolve [TS]

00:11:18   this [TS]

00:11:19   story oh yeah it becomes quite a [TS]

00:11:20   page-turner at that point right like [TS]

00:11:22   yeah but it's just you have to get [TS]

00:11:23   through whatever 800 pages of Eileen [TS]

00:11:26   worrying about whether she should tell [TS]

00:11:27   Mike about that she saw a guy down by [TS]

00:11:30   the side of the road [TS]

00:11:31   it's like wow no much too much too much [TS]

00:11:35   alright so we'll move on our next novel [TS]

00:11:38   is cry burn which is a miles for Kosygin [TS]

00:11:41   book by lois mcmaster bujold so Dan and [TS]

00:11:45   scott and i have read crabber and this [TS]

00:11:47   is the you know obviously the latest of [TS]

00:11:49   the 80,000 book along with Miles [TS]

00:11:52   Vorkosigan saga which we all I think a [TS]

00:11:55   bond and excellent recommendation we all [TS]

00:11:57   read these books and enjoy them and did [TS]

00:11:58   a whole podcast about right [TS]

00:12:00   so Dan as the as the one who's been [TS]

00:12:02   reading this book the longest want to [TS]

00:12:03   give us your take first on on cry i [TS]

00:12:06   really liked cry Auburn I I don't you [TS]

00:12:08   know it's not my favorite in the series [TS]

00:12:10   but coming on the heels of i think it [TS]

00:12:11   was in like 2003 that the last one [TS]

00:12:13   diplomatic immunity came out and that [TS]

00:12:16   book i thought was an absolute i just [TS]

00:12:17   did not like it [TS]

00:12:19   it was one is probably my least favorite [TS]

00:12:21   of the actual books that involve miles [TS]

00:12:24   and this one I thought was wasn't it an [TS]

00:12:27   improvement there was a really [TS]

00:12:29   interesting setting which is it takes [TS]

00:12:31   place on this world where being frozen [TS]

00:12:34   in like you know cryogenic storage is [TS]

00:12:37   like this really you know it's part of [TS]

00:12:39   society essentially and and all these [TS]

00:12:42   people get some essentially are you know [TS]

00:12:44   you're frozen storage and the company or [TS]

00:12:46   whatever that you've you know that is [TS]

00:12:48   storing you get your votes or whatever [TS]

00:12:50   you know it's it's it's right so you end [TS]

00:12:52   up with his corporate kind of grammar [TS]

00:12:54   it's that use frozen people as political [TS]

00:12:57   chefs yeah and and so there and then [TS]

00:13:00   into this comes this ensures this [TS]

00:13:01   intrigue that of course mile gets drawn [TS]

00:13:03   into I mean we kind of start it starts [TS]

00:13:06   off with this kind of strange like he [TS]

00:13:08   gets kidnapped right and it starts off [TS]

00:13:09   with him sort of breaking out of these [TS]

00:13:11   this kidnapping he befriends this young [TS]

00:13:14   child sort of street urchin kid and we [TS]

00:13:17   get we get a whole bunch of chapters [TS]

00:13:18   from this kids point of view which was [TS]

00:13:20   kind of interesting I thought in terms [TS]

00:13:21   of having like miles is in some ways [TS]

00:13:25   interesting character to see through [TS]

00:13:26   someone else's lens especially when it's [TS]

00:13:29   a kid who has this like well there's [TS]

00:13:32   this guy wandering [TS]

00:13:32   and he's kind of my size but he's [TS]

00:13:34   definitely not a child and he seems very [TS]

00:13:36   straight bitch and I kind of enjoyed [TS]

00:13:40   that i enjoyed some of the character I [TS]

00:13:42   think some one of the things i like is [TS]

00:13:44   that a lot of its secondary characters [TS]

00:13:45   who could have easily become cookie [TS]

00:13:48   cutter characters they actually fleshed [TS]

00:13:50   out a bit [TS]

00:13:50   there's the which is for Lincoln who [TS]

00:13:53   sort of this the the political guy on [TS]

00:13:55   the console on the planet or whatever [TS]

00:13:56   and he he could have very easily been [TS]

00:13:59   set up as just a straight file like the [TS]

00:14:01   guy you know you're a loose cannon you [TS]

00:14:02   know but he he actually becomes a very [TS]

00:14:05   sympathetic character and you know takes [TS]

00:14:08   on an interesting sort of a role in [TS]

00:14:10   response two miles there you know they [TS]

00:14:13   are heroic who's kind of his bodyguard [TS]

00:14:16   I think it's flush out a lot more and i [TS]

00:14:17   quite enjoy his his his chapters that [TS]

00:14:21   are narrated from his point of view [TS]

00:14:22   because he's obviously got a very [TS]

00:14:23   different perspective on this whole [TS]

00:14:24   affair and so you know in general I [TS]

00:14:27   would say it was you know like a solid [TS]

00:14:29   solid b-plus the ending in particular [TS]

00:14:31   though like you know pumps it up for me [TS]

00:14:34   a little bit like that it because you [TS]

00:14:36   kind of know it's coming but at the same [TS]

00:14:38   time if you've been reading the series [TS]

00:14:39   as long as I have you know it was still [TS]

00:14:42   heart-wrenching it was a heart-wrenching [TS]

00:14:43   end so basically you've got you know [TS]

00:14:46   it's kind of a fun adventure and there's [TS]

00:14:47   some really clever stuff but you know [TS]

00:14:51   when the plot is resolved then they're [TS]

00:14:52   sort of like the payoff of the people [TS]

00:14:54   who've been reading all the books where [TS]

00:14:55   there's you know sort of secondary thing [TS]

00:14:57   which is major life events for miles and [TS]

00:15:00   his family that only really make sense [TS]

00:15:03   if you've read all the other books and [TS]

00:15:05   thinking thinking about it gives me [TS]

00:15:07   goosebumps just in terms of like that's [TS]

00:15:08   that that's the story that I you know in [TS]

00:15:10   some ways that's the story I really want [TS]

00:15:12   to read is the thing that comes after [TS]

00:15:13   this right there is that nice little [TS]

00:15:15   epilogue where they sort of delve into [TS]

00:15:17   how several of the characters the majors [TS]

00:15:20   characters deal with this change [TS]

00:15:22   yeah but it really just that last line [TS]

00:15:25   in the book because you kind of even if [TS]

00:15:28   you kind of see it coming [TS]

00:15:29   like once it hits you i just found it I [TS]

00:15:31   found it very heart-wrenching yeah yeah [TS]

00:15:34   but the actual adventure you know it's [TS]

00:15:35   not my money and yeah there's a it's [TS]

00:15:37   like if there's a caper and they have to [TS]

00:15:39   go switch bodies out and then solve a [TS]

00:15:41   mystery of like why is this person than [TS]

00:15:44   lots of it is funny that [TS]

00:15:46   that this is a UH there's like a major [TS]

00:15:49   coincidence that has to happen where [TS]

00:15:51   miles happens to escape from being there [TS]

00:15:54   trying to kill them or whatever and this [TS]

00:15:56   kid happens to find him and it turns out [TS]

00:15:58   that his mom happens to be deeply [TS]

00:16:02   involved in the conspiracy that interest [TS]

00:16:05   miles and that keeps him around you know [TS]

00:16:07   you get it kind of a lot to get there [TS]

00:16:10   your butt like once they said it once [TS]

00:16:12   you sort of get past that premise like [TS]

00:16:13   that that's you know the setup i think [TS]

00:16:16   it does kind of you know it rolls [TS]

00:16:17   downhill a little better but I like [TS]

00:16:19   miles being put in with these people who [TS]

00:16:21   are like really poor and they're like [TS]

00:16:22   squatters in this old factory because [TS]

00:16:24   he's so he moves in in big circles right [TS]

00:16:29   he moves in in in nobility right he's a [TS]

00:16:32   he's a one of the privileged class of [TS]

00:16:35   the galaxy and so could have him be [TS]

00:16:38   basically like he's got nothing and he's [TS]

00:16:40   with these squatters and then when he [TS]

00:16:42   finally gets to call on some of his [TS]

00:16:44   resources these squatters are like oh [TS]

00:16:46   wow you know they really appreciate it [TS]

00:16:48   because he has power and these people [TS]

00:16:51   are completely powerless and he's like [TS]

00:16:52   using his power to get to bring the [TS]

00:16:55   hammer down a little bit yeah and it's [TS]

00:16:57   like a righteous thing because he you [TS]

00:16:59   know these people have been oppressed [TS]

00:17:01   and exploited for so long and then you [TS]

00:17:03   know he's making trouble on their behalf [TS]

00:17:05   these two being miles on their behalf to [TS]

00:17:07   for their benefit that was a fun take on [TS]

00:17:10   one miles Scott what do you think well I [TS]

00:17:13   thought it was fun read but i don't [TS]

00:17:15   think that it would have been nominated [TS]

00:17:17   for Hugo had the other novels existed if [TS]

00:17:21   that makes sense i mean if they didn't [TS]

00:17:22   exist obviously she wouldn't have [TS]

00:17:24   written this book but taken by itself i [TS]

00:17:27   do not think it's a hugo caliber novel [TS]

00:17:30   in given the context of the series you [TS]

00:17:33   know your opinion can change but I think [TS]

00:17:35   if I were voted for the Hugo's i would [TS]

00:17:39   have to look at each novel on its own [TS]

00:17:41   and this novel yes I don't think meets [TS]

00:17:45   the caliber that I expect you go [TS]

00:17:48   nominated nothing i would agree that I [TS]

00:17:50   mean I think they're there are [TS]

00:17:51   definitely books in the series that I [TS]

00:17:53   think you know have deserved that more [TS]

00:17:55   that honor more and it's not necessarily [TS]

00:17:57   the strongest standalone book [TS]

00:17:59   you know yeah it's fun that's what I [TS]

00:18:01   agree agree with both of you i think i [TS]

00:18:03   think it's a fun fun read surprised that [TS]

00:18:05   got nominated well i guess not too [TS]

00:18:07   surprised because many miles books have [TS]

00:18:09   been nominated a few of them of one but [TS]

00:18:12   you know yeah it absolutely is not of a [TS]

00:18:15   caliber to really be considered like [TS]

00:18:16   best novel of the year just because it [TS]

00:18:18   you know I knew not miles novel is fun [TS]

00:18:20   and i look forward to the next one but [TS]

00:18:23   you know it was just you know a fun [TS]

00:18:25   adventure rump and you know had some [TS]

00:18:27   interesting ideas but yeah that was that [TS]

00:18:30   was about as far as it went [TS]

00:18:31   yeah i-i-i thought a lot of it was [TS]

00:18:34   predictable which is kosher [TS]

00:18:36   I mean everybody yeah you know in the [TS]

00:18:38   same time and I think it tickles that [TS]

00:18:39   part of you that likes that you know [TS]

00:18:41   there's a part of me that read the book [TS]

00:18:43   is like all man i see what's government [TS]

00:18:44   and Kyrie I still really enjoy the [TS]

00:18:46   payoff even if icy roads coming [TS]

00:18:48   did you read the book yet you you're [TS]

00:18:51   looking for that kind of thing in the [TS]

00:18:52   the miles saga right because your [TS]

00:18:54   character you're comfortable with you [TS]

00:18:56   know kind of how he relates with the [TS]

00:18:58   world and it's interesting to see him [TS]

00:19:00   kind of screw-up everybody else's plans [TS]

00:19:03   and just kind of you know cause trouble [TS]

00:19:05   yeah agreed alright so we're going to [TS]

00:19:09   move onto a book that Glen has read part [TS]

00:19:11   of who the Dervish house by eve and [TS]

00:19:14   mcdonald I'd be happy to sever the part [TS]

00:19:16   i read but you didn't you didn't [TS]

00:19:18   actually stop reading this book and a [TS]

00:19:19   honey just ran out of time and time it's [TS]

00:19:22   um yes very i mean i look forward to [TS]

00:19:23   actually finishing it [TS]

00:19:25   it's interesting i think i tried to [TS]

00:19:26   start it several times and it's a little [TS]

00:19:28   know it's a little of flowery and [TS]

00:19:31   difficult at first I can't quite figure [TS]

00:19:33   it's like listening to music in using a [TS]

00:19:35   different chromatic scale than you're [TS]

00:19:37   used to your studio used to Western [TS]

00:19:38   allottees and you listen to something [TS]

00:19:40   you're like I can't quite figure out if [TS]

00:19:42   this is good or noise and it took me a [TS]

00:19:46   number of pages to get into it and then [TS]

00:19:47   I started to fly along and ran out of [TS]

00:19:48   time [TS]

00:19:49   alright well Scott and I read the whole [TS]

00:19:51   thing is amazing [TS]

00:19:52   um no I you know I thought it was a I [TS]

00:19:57   thought it was really good although it's [TS]

00:19:58   definitely not like super easy light I [TS]

00:20:01   mean like I blew through cry over and [TS]

00:20:03   dervish house took more work but i [TS]

00:20:05   really liked it Scott what did you think [TS]

00:20:06   I am a huge fan of diverse house and [TS]

00:20:10   and uh MacDonald in general he is [TS]

00:20:12   someone who I hadn't read until recently [TS]

00:20:14   and for some reason I got in my head [TS]

00:20:16   that a previous one of his books was a [TS]

00:20:19   kind of a prequel to dervish house was [TS]

00:20:22   so i said i have to read the river of [TS]

00:20:24   God's for readers house because it's one [TS]

00:20:26   story and they are completely unrelated [TS]

00:20:28   and step in completely different [TS]

00:20:30   universes both universes being our [TS]

00:20:34   universe but so you don't have to eat [TS]

00:20:35   both of them to enjoy this story at all [TS]

00:20:38   i don't know what i was thinking but [TS]

00:20:39   what I love about him well I think he's [TS]

00:20:43   a great writer and he sets his stuff [TS]

00:20:46   like Glenn you were talking about you [TS]

00:20:47   know different chromatic scale he sets [TS]

00:20:49   his settings are non-western which makes [TS]

00:20:53   it very interesting to me because it's [TS]

00:20:55   an alien culture and yet it's you know [TS]

00:20:58   still humans so in a dervish houses case [TS]

00:21:00   it we get it set and in Turkey [TS]

00:21:03   yep in the near future and like what 20 [TS]

00:21:06   40 20 30 something like that [TS]

00:21:09   20-25 minutes the it's it's me rish [TS]

00:21:11   future turkey [TS]

00:21:13   yeah it's great because i have no idea i [TS]

00:21:15   don't know the cultural enough to know [TS]

00:21:16   what is actually current behavior I mean [TS]

00:21:19   know the technology of course but I [TS]

00:21:21   don't know what's current behavior and [TS]

00:21:22   what's supposed it feels it feels very [TS]

00:21:25   genuine so even if it's wrong and feels [TS]

00:21:27   right but I'm but maybe it's the [TS]

00:21:29   displacement and a travel log kind of [TS]

00:21:31   feel to it was like this is cool i'm [TS]

00:21:33   learning things that may or may not be [TS]

00:21:34   true but I'm i feel like i'm learning [TS]

00:21:36   things about Turkey and about this sort [TS]

00:21:38   of it you know attitude of the Turks [TS]

00:21:41   toured europe and do they face toward [TS]

00:21:43   Europe or do they face away from Europe [TS]

00:21:45   and that's all going on in there which I [TS]

00:21:48   which is really interesting and then [TS]

00:21:49   there's the whole sci-fi element on top [TS]

00:21:50   of them and the the story of the the [TS]

00:21:52   mellah fide man i don't know which is [TS]

00:21:55   which is like again i don't know if it's [TS]

00:21:57   true or not but it's the the somebody he [TS]

00:22:00   eats honey until he dies and then they [TS]

00:22:05   put him in a stone casket full of honey [TS]

00:22:08   and they stored away in the ground and [TS]

00:22:09   he turns it's like his body turns into [TS]

00:22:12   honey and then it's supposed to like [TS]

00:22:14   have magical healing properties of [TS]

00:22:15   course i love that word i was this like [TS]

00:22:17   Mel ified you read that you [TS]

00:22:19   like well I want to know what that is so [TS]

00:22:22   I talk to somebody who is frustrated by [TS]

00:22:24   this book and um because they're stupid [TS]

00:22:26   drunk drunk [TS]

00:22:30   yes or near future turkey Nana there's [TS]

00:22:32   like nano technology nano technology [TS]

00:22:36   startups are happening and and then [TS]

00:22:40   there's like business guys with [TS]

00:22:41   investments and there's like gasps [TS]

00:22:42   investors and all this stuff and they [TS]

00:22:44   enter these multiple stories and they [TS]

00:22:46   eventually converge but it takes a long [TS]

00:22:47   time for them to converge and it's all [TS]

00:22:50   is keyed off of this [TS]

00:22:53   oh and there's the kid who's got his [TS]

00:22:54   robot is nanorobot and the old man who [TS]

00:22:57   used to be like an academic and is [TS]

00:22:59   connected to the government who kind of [TS]

00:23:00   the friends the kid and the kid can't [TS]

00:23:02   hear not because he can't hear but [TS]

00:23:04   because loud noises will cause his heart [TS]

00:23:06   to stop just a video crate crazy amounts [TS]

00:23:10   of interesting detail [TS]

00:23:11   oh and the man who the man who sees [TS]

00:23:13   Jin's oh yeah so so so it all starts [TS]

00:23:17   with a terrorist bombing in a tram where [TS]

00:23:19   nobody dies except the bottom which [TS]

00:23:22   seems strange and to me it was very [TS]

00:23:24   clear that that was important and that [TS]

00:23:27   everything was going to come from that [TS]

00:23:29   and yet I talk to somebody who is [TS]

00:23:30   frustrated by that i mean the amazing to [TS]

00:23:32   have a suicide bomber who is literally a [TS]

00:23:34   suicide bomber not a homicide bombers [TS]

00:23:36   that is an extraordinary thing in itself [TS]

00:23:37   right but there's something that happens [TS]

00:23:40   because of that leads to all these other [TS]

00:23:42   events to happen including the guy who's [TS]

00:23:44   like a petty criminal basically an air [TS]

00:23:46   do well who suddenly starts [TS]

00:23:48   hallucinating that he's seeing you know [TS]

00:23:50   sort of religious figures all around him [TS]

00:23:54   ada and and the fact that the the guy [TS]

00:23:57   who sees the religious figures and the [TS]

00:23:58   kid who saw the bombing from his room [TS]

00:24:00   via his robot and then it's followed by [TS]

00:24:03   another robot that tries to destroy his [TS]

00:24:05   robot and then the gas investors are [TS]

00:24:08   gonna try to sell irradiated gasps yeah [TS]

00:24:10   right because Iran has had their nuclear [TS]

00:24:12   complex bombed by the Americans like 10 [TS]

00:24:15   years before and they've got all this [TS]

00:24:16   gas but it passes through the radiation [TS]

00:24:18   zone and just all of this stuff that's [TS]

00:24:21   so densely packed in there and you know [TS]

00:24:23   it's going to converge and these [TS]

00:24:25   characters are the characters are [TS]

00:24:27   interesting although i did I to the [TS]

00:24:29   characters of women characters have very [TS]

00:24:31   similar names and i got really confused [TS]

00:24:33   about which one was which but you know I [TS]

00:24:35   figured it out eventually because one of [TS]

00:24:37   them had a one of the husband and the [TS]

00:24:39   other one didn't have a husband or a [TS]

00:24:42   career and was you know meet her [TS]

00:24:44   family's help to get a job right but uh [TS]

00:24:46   and and was walking past the tram when [TS]

00:24:50   it got bombed trying to get to a job [TS]

00:24:51   interview right so and then it's all [TS]

00:24:53   connected i can see how it's different [TS]

00:24:54   the names are kind of difficult to keep [TS]

00:24:56   strategies they were for me to keep [TS]

00:24:57   straight all the names because they're [TS]

00:24:59   so they're not Western name is so [TS]

00:25:01   exactly so i have no real context for [TS]

00:25:03   them but i think i just really love the [TS]

00:25:05   way he writes and the stick it in the [TS]

00:25:09   river of God's he also which is I think [TS]

00:25:12   twice the size of the Jewish house and [TS]

00:25:14   probably has four times as many plot [TS]

00:25:16   elements that all seem unrelated until [TS]

00:25:19   the very end he just knows how to weave [TS]

00:25:22   this very intricate story that you don't [TS]

00:25:25   really know what why you're reading 5 [TS]

00:25:28   different stories that seem not related [TS]

00:25:31   whatsoever until the last maybe ten [TS]

00:25:33   percent of the book and you're like uh [TS]

00:25:34   oh ho [TS]

00:25:35   it all makes sense down well and the [TS]

00:25:38   fact that they the plot comes together [TS]

00:25:40   like that which is really interesting [TS]

00:25:42   but also that he you know and his [TS]

00:25:44   writing is is really really good [TS]

00:25:46   some really beautiful descriptions just [TS]

00:25:48   adjust descriptions of of turkey of [TS]

00:25:51   Istanbul and the river and the bridge [TS]

00:25:55   over the river and all that and some you [TS]

00:25:57   know and then you've got some [TS]

00:25:58   interesting characters and then if you [TS]

00:26:00   step back the themes that he's talking [TS]

00:26:03   about you know he's talking about [TS]

00:26:04   identity on a lot of different levels [TS]

00:26:06   right there's Turkish identity and and [TS]

00:26:08   and how you know on one side of the [TS]

00:26:10   river you're in europe and on the other [TS]

00:26:11   side you're in Asia but also there's [TS]

00:26:13   this whole identity issue with the [TS]

00:26:16   nanotechnology and what the [TS]

00:26:18   nanotechnology has to do with like [TS]

00:26:20   modifying the identities of people and [TS]

00:26:22   there's a characteristic debate like [TS]

00:26:24   erasing the memory of a friend of his [TS]

00:26:26   with this nanotechnology just you know [TS]

00:26:29   it's such it's something that only [TS]

00:26:31   science fiction can do and it's actually [TS]

00:26:32   one of the reasons why really good [TS]

00:26:33   science fiction is so great and why i [TS]

00:26:35   love reading it is that you know to use [TS]

00:26:39   all of these tools to talk about culture [TS]

00:26:41   and identity and technology and how they [TS]

00:26:44   all interact [TS]

00:26:45   and and and then speculate a little bit [TS]

00:26:47   about a future where the hots the hot [TS]

00:26:50   tech startups are outside of istanbul [TS]

00:26:51   turkey instead of in Silicon Valley is [TS]

00:26:54   uh you know it's really it is just so [TS]

00:26:57   much to it and it sits there it was a [TS]

00:27:00   real joy to read it and I want some of [TS]

00:27:02   those nanobots toys that kid has yeah [TS]

00:27:06   he's got the it turns into a monkey and [TS]

00:27:08   a rat and a snake and I mean there's [TS]

00:27:11   action to I shouldn't say this is like a [TS]

00:27:12   complex meditation on identity because [TS]

00:27:15   while it is that there's also like some [TS]

00:27:17   great action stuff where the you know [TS]

00:27:19   the monkey robot has to like free a guy [TS]

00:27:22   and they're doing like hand signals [TS]

00:27:24   because the guy was being held by these [TS]

00:27:25   terrorists and that he acted it works on [TS]

00:27:29   many levels and maybe there's the the [TS]

00:27:31   mellah five-man which is such a great [TS]

00:27:32   thing really is not very important [TS]

00:27:36   whatsoever to little overall plot of the [TS]

00:27:39   story but it's got some great raiders of [TS]

00:27:41   the lost ark kindness is that has been [TS]

00:27:43   open their tracking it down and you know [TS]

00:27:45   you get that whole concept of the [TS]

00:27:47   architect who laid out in Istanbul and [TS]

00:27:50   who wanted to spell the name of God out [TS]

00:27:52   who did apparently well in this book he [TS]

00:27:54   spilled up a name of God and that was [TS]

00:27:56   how they kind of have to figure out [TS]

00:27:57   where the mellah fide man was and the [TS]

00:27:59   fanatic who once he saw the name he [TS]

00:28:02   carries acid on him as we can burn his [TS]

00:28:05   eyes out [TS]

00:28:06   so the last thing he sees is the last [TS]

00:28:08   word of the name of God and then he'll [TS]

00:28:09   burn his eyes out exactly so much to [TS]

00:28:12   like and it's not very long book either [TS]

00:28:13   so I he packs it all it it's really good [TS]

00:28:16   very good book one of the better books [TS]

00:28:18   that I've read and and in quite a while [TS]

00:28:21   yes and if it does not win the hugo [TS]

00:28:23   something is terribly wrong [TS]

00:28:25   yeah I great so highly recommended from [TS]

00:28:28   all of us [TS]

00:28:29   let's check it up and if if you if you [TS]

00:28:31   like it you should start read the [TS]

00:28:32   directions first because it is short and [TS]

00:28:34   if you like it [TS]

00:28:35   pick up the river gods which is also [TS]

00:28:37   fantastic but much longer and much more [TS]

00:28:40   dense alright we will we will move on to [TS]

00:28:44   our next hugo nominees selection we're [TS]

00:28:46   just blowing through the books after [TS]

00:28:47   band knocking them down if you don't [TS]

00:28:49   really goes much faster yes yes haha [TS]

00:28:52   feed by mirror Grant who read fee i did [TS]

00:28:55   mean for shot and neither of us liked it [TS]

00:28:58   ok so let me talk about food for manage [TS]

00:29:03   and winding up can you give you hear it [TS]

00:29:05   and the pit shit it's crap [TS]

00:29:07   oh yeah I i have so many problems with [TS]

00:29:11   this book i will let you go first okay [TS]

00:29:13   let's see if I can hit the problems that [TS]

00:29:15   you've got her if you've got your own [TS]

00:29:16   defeated by mere Grant who is actually [TS]

00:29:18   mirror grant is actually a pseudonym for [TS]

00:29:21   a writer of other novels called I guess [TS]

00:29:27   her name is Shawn Maguire and she wrote [TS]

00:29:30   this under a pen name she's a she's a [TS]

00:29:32   sci-fi writer of some sort of position [TS]

00:29:35   is it young adult stuff is that [TS]

00:29:37   yeah and I think she's just I think [TS]

00:29:39   she's generally liked and she wrote this [TS]

00:29:40   under this other name and it got [TS]

00:29:42   nominated and it awful up [TS]

00:29:44   it baffles me anyway so that before i go [TS]

00:29:47   about bafflement let's just talk about [TS]

00:29:49   the book feed is is a novel about [TS]

00:29:52   bloggers yes who are essentially news [TS]

00:29:58   reporters of the future and this is set [TS]

00:29:59   in the near future as well where [TS]

00:30:01   technology is a little more advanced [TS]

00:30:03   also there's been a zombie apocalypse [TS]

00:30:04   not making this up [TS]

00:30:06   zombie apocalypse there's a you know a [TS]

00:30:09   virus or actually a a virus and a cure [TS]

00:30:13   for the common cold that meat and create [TS]

00:30:16   zombies [TS]

00:30:17   yes and everybody who dies becomes a [TS]

00:30:19   zombie and if you get bitten [TS]

00:30:22   if by a zombie you die and then your [TS]

00:30:25   zombie and an interesting but I think [TS]

00:30:27   that her world building was interesting [TS]

00:30:29   so you can also since the the whatever [TS]

00:30:32   the the zombie particle or whatever you [TS]

00:30:34   wanna call it has been around it has a [TS]

00:30:37   virus yet the virus that's probably [TS]

00:30:38   better is it so it's in everyone and it [TS]

00:30:41   can just spontaneously activate so you [TS]

00:30:45   don't have to be bitten by a zombie you [TS]

00:30:46   can just spontaneously turn into a [TS]

00:30:49   zombie and animals also turned into [TS]

00:30:51   zombies over 40 pounds or something so [TS]

00:30:54   right there's like there's a law that [TS]

00:30:55   you can't have a pet that's over 40 [TS]

00:30:57   pounds because it could spontaneously [TS]

00:30:59   turn into like a zombie [TS]

00:31:01   Marmaduke but think how Bad's Ombey like [TS]

00:31:04   mosquitoes would be zombie one rat [TS]

00:31:06   that's why you can't do that yet so but [TS]

00:31:08   zombie horses yes [TS]

00:31:09   so here's the thing though she you're [TS]

00:31:11   right Scott [TS]

00:31:12   the the world-building the world she [TS]

00:31:15   builds is interesting who her world [TS]

00:31:18   building skills are poor because the way [TS]

00:31:21   the world gets built in the story is [TS]

00:31:23   that somebody will like say something to [TS]

00:31:26   another character and then they'll be [TS]

00:31:28   four pages of explanation of what this [TS]

00:31:31   means and how this happened in history [TS]

00:31:32   and how it all came to be at which point [TS]

00:31:35   you will then immediately go to the [TS]

00:31:37   response of the character in the [TS]

00:31:39   conversation you're like what [TS]

00:31:40   oh right i was in the middle of a [TS]

00:31:42   conversation before there were five [TS]

00:31:43   pages of exposition it's kind of like [TS]

00:31:45   her editor said show your work [TS]

00:31:47   yeah yeah and so rather than dropping [TS]

00:31:49   kind of these these hints and clues [TS]

00:31:51   about how it's going to work throughout [TS]

00:31:53   she just sort of lays it all out there [TS]

00:31:55   the dialogue is is poured the characters [TS]

00:31:58   you know a couple of the characters are [TS]

00:32:00   interesting but mostly the characters [TS]

00:32:01   are cardboard cutouts I think she's got [TS]

00:32:03   some kind of interesting things to say [TS]

00:32:04   about the media and blogging as people [TS]

00:32:08   who work in primarily electronic media [TS]

00:32:11   she's trying to get some of what she [TS]

00:32:14   says it's kind of interesting and what [TS]

00:32:16   she envisions as mass media but most of [TS]

00:32:19   it is so simplified and sort of silly [TS]

00:32:21   and it seems it feels to be like if this [TS]

00:32:23   was a book written by someone who [TS]

00:32:26   discovered blogging in like 1996 and r [TS]

00:32:30   is setting out a world where that can [TS]

00:32:32   you believe that bloggers are actually [TS]

00:32:34   credible now its creation and I'm like I [TS]

00:32:36   can't believe it because I'm living in [TS]

00:32:37   that world right as if that happens so [TS]

00:32:40   the characters are not great that the [TS]

00:32:42   dialogue is bad there's huge amounts of [TS]

00:32:44   exposition so my other problems with it [TS]

00:32:47   there's a political story the story is [TS]

00:32:49   the bloggers get to cover up hold [TS]

00:32:51   presidential campaign tag along on the [TS]

00:32:54   with one of the candidates with with an [TS]

00:32:57   improbable e nice candid he is he is [TS]

00:33:01   they don't believe how night had not how [TS]

00:33:03   nice goodie is so you know that in the [TS]

00:33:05   end [TS]

00:33:06   how could he be nice and good because [TS]

00:33:07   he's so perfect well the answer is he so [TS]

00:33:09   perfect cause he's a really bad [TS]

00:33:10   character and he just as perfect as [TS]

00:33:12   president but he doesn't have to have [TS]

00:33:14   any imperfections because his running [TS]

00:33:16   mate becomes the stock evil general so I [TS]

00:33:20   I fire off the spoiler horn but honestly [TS]

00:33:22   the law of the economy of characters is [TS]

00:33:25   in full force in this book [TS]

00:33:26   which is there's only one person who [TS]

00:33:28   could be the bad guy and it's the guy [TS]

00:33:30   who is completely evil from the [TS]

00:33:32   beginning Nov and redeeming values and [TS]

00:33:35   let me alert [TS]

00:33:36   yes spoiler alert he is the bad girl [TS]

00:33:39   because of course he's the bad guy he's [TS]

00:33:41   the only bad guy in the book yeah and [TS]

00:33:42   he's a nice old mustache twirling he's [TS]

00:33:46   snidely whiplash of fundamentalist [TS]

00:33:49   Republican presidential candidate who [TS]

00:33:52   becomes a vice-presidential candidate [TS]

00:33:53   and is plotting the death of his running [TS]

00:33:57   mate sabu haha he can become the [TS]

00:33:59   president of the United States awful so [TS]

00:34:01   so I'm um ok Scott you go [TS]

00:34:04   I i'm trying to think what else I have a [TS]

00:34:06   long list let me know what else [TS]

00:34:08   ok so I have a couple of other things [TS]

00:34:09   she so it annoys me in general I read [TS]

00:34:14   books you know I started to beginning [TS]

00:34:17   and read through it and I noticed some [TS]

00:34:19   authors traditional you know that's just [TS]

00:34:20   how i do it call me crazy and as I do it [TS]

00:34:24   I remember even though I have this weird [TS]

00:34:26   book amnesia as i'm reading a book i [TS]

00:34:29   generally remember what i'm reading and [TS]

00:34:31   so I notice if an author is using the [TS]

00:34:34   same phrase over and over and over again [TS]

00:34:37   and apparently this author really likes [TS]

00:34:40   the phrase poke it with a stick because [TS]

00:34:42   like every other page poke it with a [TS]

00:34:45   stick and I like with a stick [TS]

00:34:47   I don't understand why you keep coming [TS]

00:34:49   back to poke it with a stick it has [TS]

00:34:50   nothing to do I understand you know [TS]

00:34:52   there are literary techniques where you [TS]

00:34:54   repetition it builds it up but poke it [TS]

00:34:56   with a stick with the wine-dark mine it [TS]

00:34:58   gets of its got nothing [TS]

00:35:00   ok with a stick and then I I i work in [TS]

00:35:04   IT you know specifically insecurity [TS]

00:35:07   right so there's a there's a character [TS]

00:35:08   in this book who is given you know these [TS]

00:35:12   mythical IT abilities right and she's [TS]

00:35:15   built the system that no one can hack [TS]

00:35:18   and it's impenetrable and she you know [TS]

00:35:21   she dies [TS]

00:35:22   spoiler alert after the fact with [TS]

00:35:25   leaving leaving no pet leaving no [TS]

00:35:27   password behind ever know she left a [TS]

00:35:28   password behind and so the characters [TS]

00:35:30   like message from the grave exactly the [TS]

00:35:32   characters like oh well let me just log [TS]

00:35:34   into the system that no one could [TS]

00:35:35   possibly hack with a 5 character [TS]

00:35:38   password that is a common [TS]

00:35:39   now I'm like what the hell is going on [TS]

00:35:45   in this world [TS]

00:35:46   how did you know what my password once [TS]

00:35:47   thats it was it was infuriating to me [TS]

00:35:51   because it was just so ridiculous and [TS]

00:35:57   and the end so the two main characters [TS]

00:35:58   are brother and sister and they have the [TS]

00:36:01   creepiest relationship ever [TS]

00:36:03   I kept waiting for them to have sex so [TS]

00:36:05   did I it was so we're super creepy it [TS]

00:36:10   was like Angelina Jolie and her brother [TS]

00:36:12   kind of yeah this is it was creepy [TS]

00:36:14   it was it was not it was distracting [TS]

00:36:17   honestly from the rest of the story and [TS]

00:36:19   it didn't have to be now but it was [TS]

00:36:22   because it was just so weird i don't [TS]

00:36:24   think it ended me to Scott that it was [TS]

00:36:26   really weird i did so i'm gonna fire off [TS]

00:36:29   the spoiler warning here [TS]

00:36:30   [Music] [TS]

00:36:34   the spoiler is it's not going to win a [TS]

00:36:36   hugo up [TS]

00:36:39   no I want to talk about the one thing [TS]

00:36:40   that I appreciate about this book which [TS]

00:36:42   I was why I have to fire off the spoiler [TS]

00:36:44   horn what I appreciate about this book [TS]

00:36:46   is that eighty percent of the way [TS]

00:36:47   through it the protagonist is killed em [TS]

00:36:50   and her brother takes over as the [TS]

00:36:53   viewpoint character for the rest of the [TS]

00:36:54   book she she gets hit by a dart full of [TS]

00:36:57   zombie venom or whatever it is and and [TS]

00:37:00   there's a very interesting scene where [TS]

00:37:02   she is doing her last message as the as [TS]

00:37:06   as her brain slowly starts to shut down [TS]

00:37:08   and become zombified and then he blows [TS]

00:37:10   her brains out and then the rest of the [TS]

00:37:12   story and the rest of the plot results [TS]

00:37:14   itself with the brother who is you know [TS]

00:37:16   obviously very upset [TS]

00:37:17   I like the fact that she had the guts to [TS]

00:37:19   go through almost the whole book but not [TS]

00:37:22   till the end kill off the main character [TS]

00:37:24   and have the resolution have to come [TS]

00:37:26   from her brother who is very upset that [TS]

00:37:27   that hit the protagonist in the book [TS]

00:37:29   that he was in has died so he has to [TS]

00:37:31   become the protagonist because he didn't [TS]

00:37:32   sign up for this crowd and he just wants [TS]

00:37:34   to poke things with sticks [TS]

00:37:35   yeah exactly so that I like that's the [TS]

00:37:39   one if you gotta say something positive [TS]

00:37:40   about I like that that was a that was [TS]

00:37:41   kind of a narrative interesting [TS]

00:37:43   narrative decision and you know so there [TS]

00:37:46   but otherwise this was really not very [TS]

00:37:49   good know it was I mean it would have [TS]

00:37:52   been bringing an endorsement [TS]

00:37:54   I cannot believe I actually i look at [TS]

00:37:57   this and think how did this get [TS]

00:37:59   nominated for hugo award was there was [TS]

00:38:01   there a campaign was there astronaut [TS]

00:38:03   earlier they had the computer the [TS]

00:38:05   computer genius hacked the voting system [TS]

00:38:07   while your password and it isn't it will [TS]

00:38:10   unbreak so secure the shugo voting [TS]

00:38:13   system could never be my I don't [TS]

00:38:17   yeah I don't just be I don't understand [TS]

00:38:20   a world where this book and the Dervish [TS]

00:38:23   house and even you know a hundred [TS]

00:38:25   thousand kingdoms and and a cryo burn [TS]

00:38:28   can be considered in the same group [TS]

00:38:31   it's just the gap is so why don't [TS]

00:38:33   understand it [TS]

00:38:35   zombie demographic they vote I guess [TS]

00:38:38   zombie I I actually you know Scott I [TS]

00:38:42   believe the dream of perpetual motion [TS]

00:38:44   would have been eligible this year right [TS]

00:38:46   the dream of perpetual motion is [TS]

00:38:48   about 14,000 times better than feed yeah [TS]

00:38:51   this is the thing that gets me is is I i [TS]

00:38:53   actually nominated the dream of [TS]

00:38:54   perpetual motion for all of its you know [TS]

00:38:56   interesting challenges it is roughly an [TS]

00:39:00   infinite amount times better than busy i [TS]

00:39:03   think so i haven't even read feed but [TS]

00:39:05   you know you're special motion [TS]

00:39:06   I don't worry we read it was months ago [TS]

00:39:08   I still a book still occupies my mind [TS]

00:39:10   part at times very so so Dan and Glenn [TS]

00:39:14   what what can I tell you you gotta reach [TS]

00:39:16   yeah I'm gonna take it on the go [TS]

00:39:17   oh I'm gonna go right out i'm so glad [TS]

00:39:19   that I didn't just like go on mute for [TS]

00:39:21   this and then come back and guys like a [TS]

00:39:22   totally read happy sucker and the best [TS]

00:39:27   part is it's the first book in the [TS]

00:39:28   trilogy so of course after so I'm going [TS]

00:39:33   to the I should say i'm going to the [TS]

00:39:35   Reno con the innovation which is the [TS]

00:39:38   world con this year in in reno nevada [TS]

00:39:40   lovely summer in reno nothing better [TS]

00:39:43   of course all the hugo nominees going to [TS]

00:39:44   be there and I'm actually hoping to go [TS]

00:39:46   to the hugo ceremony awkward and punch [TS]

00:39:48   out the authors write and here's the [TS]

00:39:51   thing is I'm going to see her there [TS]

00:39:52   shaker that'd be like I gotta walk away [TS]

00:39:55   Jason if you have nothing nice to say [TS]

00:39:57   because i haven't read any of your other [TS]

00:39:59   books but the one book i read then punch [TS]

00:40:01   them in the face yeah you could say I [TS]

00:40:03   really like how you killed your [TS]

00:40:04   protagonist yeah that's right that's [TS]

00:40:07   right i thought it was very brave of you [TS]

00:40:08   to kill your protectiveness most of the [TS]

00:40:10   way through your novel and what do you [TS]

00:40:12   think about the rest of my book did you [TS]

00:40:13   like it [TS]

00:40:14   I wish you I wish you had killed that [TS]

00:40:16   you're an embarrassment of humor [TS]

00:40:18   alright i I'm glad you didn't make the [TS]

00:40:21   brother and sister have sex [TS]

00:40:22   thank you yeah well it always it always [TS]

00:40:25   it always pains me to criticize [TS]

00:40:27   someone's book so harshly because they [TS]

00:40:29   spent so much time writing it and you [TS]

00:40:31   can tell she was really invested in it [TS]

00:40:33   but it's not very good I'm sorry no it's [TS]

00:40:35   not [TS]

00:40:36   hey is your nomination sell enough it's [TS]

00:40:38   not it's not only not in the class to be [TS]

00:40:40   a hugo nominee it's not in the class to [TS]

00:40:41   be considered a good but now it's just a [TS]

00:40:43   bad and frankly it cheapens the hugo [TS]

00:40:45   award for heavy and not really does i [TS]

00:40:47   don't and it's a parasite is hundred [TS]

00:40:49   thousand hundred thousand kids how many [TS]

00:40:53   kingdoms yr a hundred Lee out hundreds a [TS]

00:40:56   big planet I think that's a lot of [TS]

00:40:57   kingdoms it is alright did everybody [TS]

00:41:00   read [TS]

00:41:01   NK Jameson's hundred thousand kingdoms i [TS]

00:41:03   read this book and I read the sequel by [TS]

00:41:05   the way around half of it [TS]

00:41:07   this book is a hundred thousand times [TS]

00:41:09   better than feed so feeds like feels [TS]

00:41:11   like one Kingdom is that what you're [TS]

00:41:13   saying and feed it feed is half a [TS]

00:41:15   Connecticut negative negative zombies [TS]

00:41:18   three kingdoms these zombie-infested [TS]

00:41:20   blogger infested king that's right that [TS]

00:41:23   is very secured i think let's think [TS]

00:41:26   that's where we're going I have the [TS]

00:41:28   floor [TS]

00:41:29   I thought hundred thousand kingdom out i [TS]

00:41:31   know i see i read it without thinking [TS]

00:41:32   about the fantasy about Hugo issue and [TS]

00:41:34   the fantasy sci-fi thing and it's it is [TS]

00:41:37   fantasy with a 0.001% science fiction [TS]

00:41:43   thrown in to make it feel a little bit [TS]

00:41:46   more sci-fi I mean there is a little bit [TS]

00:41:48   of sci-fi overtone like to like you know [TS]

00:41:50   a little taste of it in there but it's [TS]

00:41:52   really fantasy but I thought it was [TS]

00:41:53   quite a beautiful novel I i think it's [TS]

00:41:55   an incredibly good read [TS]

00:41:57   yeah i was drawn into it right away it's [TS]

00:41:59   very complicated she's fully populated [TS]

00:42:01   world starting from scratch he has this [TS]

00:42:03   world of richness of gods and man you're [TS]

00:42:06   like wait a little bit about what the [TS]

00:42:08   book is about sure [TS]

00:42:09   well so the idea is that they live in a [TS]

00:42:11   universe that this HR the book is about [TS]

00:42:13   essentially a other bloggers say happy [TS]

00:42:16   other plugins tell his other side of [TS]

00:42:17   hell is other planters zombie blogger [TS]

00:42:20   the book is about a woman a girl who [TS]

00:42:22   lives in a distant Kingdom from sort of [TS]

00:42:23   the center of the world is practically a [TS]

00:42:25   legitimate center of the world which all [TS]

00:42:27   the power resides and she's called by [TS]

00:42:30   her grandfather she's a sort of a [TS]

00:42:32   half-caste she's called but a prominent [TS]

00:42:34   her own Kingdom in the north [TS]

00:42:35   she's called to the central Kingdom and [TS]

00:42:38   her grandfather is it is named here is [TS]

00:42:41   one of his heirs three potential errors [TS]

00:42:43   and will be some kind of you know [TS]

00:42:44   there's imagination there but she finds [TS]

00:42:46   out very quickly spoiler horn that [TS]

00:42:49   really she's there to die because [TS]

00:42:51   someone has to die in order for the [TS]

00:42:53   accession ascension to happen for the [TS]

00:42:55   next ruler of the kingdom but here's the [TS]

00:42:58   thing you know a lot of kingdoms a lot [TS]

00:43:00   of novels talk about the gods and how [TS]

00:43:02   important they are whatever and [TS]

00:43:03   sometimes they're made manifest in this [TS]

00:43:05   the gods are no real and palpable and [TS]

00:43:08   they're in the captain the cash will be [TS]

00:43:09   trapped right because there's other was [TS]

00:43:12   an epic battle between the three Creator [TS]

00:43:14   God [TS]

00:43:14   of sorts of different ages in this [TS]

00:43:16   universe are three legitimate creator [TS]

00:43:18   gods and one of them two of them were [TS]

00:43:20   lovers a third came along a to sort of [TS]

00:43:22   male entities were lovers and friends [TS]

00:43:24   and foes at third came along and she [TS]

00:43:26   provided a balanced and then sort of [TS]

00:43:29   poison entered one of their hearts and [TS]

00:43:30   the one who is the white is the light he [TS]

00:43:32   manages to kill the sort of woman who [TS]

00:43:36   symbolize are the goddess who symbolizes [TS]

00:43:37   all of growth in creation and then [TS]

00:43:40   enslave the one who is the symbol of [TS]

00:43:42   darkness and so the darkness and all of [TS]

00:43:45   his children and all of those related [TS]

00:43:47   are all now subject there under the [TS]

00:43:49   thumb of this ruling family essentially [TS]

00:43:51   can order them around and make them do [TS]

00:43:53   their will and it's there all humiliated [TS]

00:43:55   and have been for some I think it's [TS]

00:43:57   thousands of years at that point right [TS]

00:43:59   it's a couple thousand you and me [TS]

00:44:00   so it's a beautiful thing it's like the [TS]

00:44:02   gods are made manifest and yet there and [TS]

00:44:03   change their suffering but they're need [TS]

00:44:05   you know if released they would destroy [TS]

00:44:07   everything and and this woman comes into [TS]

00:44:09   this environment she's the outsider lets [TS]

00:44:11   us have the perspective we get to know [TS]

00:44:12   exposition thank you for the expedition [TS]

00:44:14   because she's coming in without any [TS]

00:44:16   knowledge beyond sort of distant stories [TS]

00:44:18   about what the situation is it's very [TS]

00:44:20   complicated it's very well realized and [TS]

00:44:22   I think it's um it's so subtle so many [TS]

00:44:25   things happen in the novel that I mean [TS]

00:44:27   some of the plot points are very broad i [TS]

00:44:29   would argue but some of the actual [TS]

00:44:30   events the way in which people are [TS]

00:44:31   acting what they do [TS]

00:44:32   totally unexpected to me and I kind of [TS]

00:44:35   love the narrative i love the University [TS]

00:44:37   immediately went and bought and read the [TS]

00:44:39   second book and there's a third in a [TS]

00:44:41   trilogy coming out this October I [TS]

00:44:43   enjoyed it very much actually I think [TS]

00:44:47   this is probably my second right after [TS]

00:44:48   dervish house if drivers house was not [TS]

00:44:50   nominated I think this would probably be [TS]

00:44:52   the one I would think should get the [TS]

00:44:54   hugo it was unlike any fantasy book i [TS]

00:44:57   think i've ever read very enjoyable well [TS]

00:45:00   written i like the interaction with the [TS]

00:45:03   gods [TS]

00:45:04   I like the the idea that they their City [TS]

00:45:08   sky that hovers I guess above the the [TS]

00:45:11   kingdom or something and this whole [TS]

00:45:13   family lives there and you have to be a [TS]

00:45:15   part of the family to live there because [TS]

00:45:17   if you're not you can't get this little [TS]

00:45:19   symbol on your like implanted on your [TS]

00:45:22   head that protects you from the [TS]

00:45:24   the the captured gods that roam the [TS]

00:45:27   hallways so that they can go just go [TS]

00:45:29   just kill you because they're angry [TS]

00:45:32   they're and they're sort of you know [TS]

00:45:33   like all gods are there sort of [TS]

00:45:35   capricious and so even though they're [TS]

00:45:36   under the thumb of you say something [TS]

00:45:38   like get get me away from here they [TS]

00:45:41   might send you to the bottom of the [TS]

00:45:43   ocean [TS]

00:45:43   you have to be very precise it's like a [TS]

00:45:45   genie is you have to be very precise [TS]

00:45:46   with you ask because if you ask me [TS]

00:45:48   emphasize they are then still within the [TS]

00:45:50   rule of the law of this sort of balls [TS]

00:45:52   been laid down by this Elder God but you [TS]

00:45:54   look funny about it setup we started out [TS]

00:45:56   you're like well they're so this is sort [TS]

00:45:57   of the usual thing there's a sort of a [TS]

00:45:58   white lie to God and there's fallen dark [TS]

00:46:01   demons and so forth and really quickly [TS]

00:46:04   like wait a minute this is not anywhere [TS]

00:46:05   near that simple [TS]

00:46:06   it's very complicated and you know there [TS]

00:46:09   is redemption and loss and hatred and [TS]

00:46:11   whatever its and things happen that you [TS]

00:46:13   can imagine within the structure the [TS]

00:46:14   university created suddenly happen she [TS]

00:46:16   breaks it open cracked open and reforms [TS]

00:46:19   and it's um I can't believe this is her [TS]

00:46:21   first novel isn't it unbelievable [TS]

00:46:23   beautiful just like a she's like a job [TS]

00:46:27   counselor such a bar because of the [TS]

00:46:29   second one she I mean this equal thing I [TS]

00:46:30   think the second one action some ways [TS]

00:46:32   that even is even better because [TS]

00:46:34   universe already exists and you're [TS]

00:46:36   inside of it instead of having to invent [TS]

00:46:37   the universe and it's not about the [TS]

00:46:40   ruling class i think my second one [TS]

00:46:42   stronger stand down on the question [TS]

00:46:44   first one is first one is that the [TS]

00:46:45   rulers of this of this planet and or [TS]

00:46:48   whatever it is that with all the [TS]

00:46:50   kingdoms and a lot of atoms and the gods [TS]

00:46:52   that the other like a hundred thousand [TS]

00:46:54   of them with but it's I i love the God [TS]

00:46:57   dynamic the fact that the gods there [TS]

00:46:59   were rules about how the gods they were [TS]

00:47:01   they were mad right so is so they were [TS]

00:47:03   going to be capricious they have good [TS]

00:47:05   reason to be they've been sort of bound [TS]

00:47:07   and tied down to earth and now they have [TS]

00:47:08   to follow the you know that created they [TS]

00:47:11   are their parents created the universe [TS]

00:47:13   and yet they have to follow the rules [TS]

00:47:14   the orders of the members of this family [TS]

00:47:17   and and then there's the white God whose [TS]

00:47:21   up in heaven and he is you know not [TS]

00:47:26   doesn't seem to be very nice right i [TS]

00:47:28   mean he won the war [TS]

00:47:30   basically that's what he's got going for [TS]

00:47:32   him and yet and that you know so this [TS]

00:47:35   character comes on and there are the [TS]

00:47:36   I i guess on one level you could view it [TS]

00:47:38   as being very traditional it's outsider [TS]

00:47:40   she doesn't seem like she's important [TS]

00:47:41   turns out she's very important she [TS]

00:47:43   learns all about it that's that same old [TS]

00:47:45   story except the way it's told it just [TS]

00:47:47   didn't feel like that to me it felt much [TS]

00:47:49   more like this was a real voyage of [TS]

00:47:51   discovery because you know it was it was [TS]

00:47:55   not just about her it was about the you [TS]

00:47:57   know how the gods were trying to use her [TS]

00:47:59   and her family was trying to use her and [TS]

00:48:02   so even though all the trappings it does [TS]

00:48:03   have that sort of traditional structure [TS]

00:48:06   just like it'sit's fantasy but it's not [TS]

00:48:08   like any fantasy novel i've ever read [TS]

00:48:10   either [TS]

00:48:11   it also has its the same structures like [TS]

00:48:13   Harry Potter it's not for Star Wars yeah [TS]

00:48:15   but it but it doesn't feel like it [TS]

00:48:17   because there's so much originality to [TS]

00:48:19   it that I never felt like oh yeah I see [TS]

00:48:21   what she's doing here in fact there are [TS]

00:48:23   a couple twists in it that i was really [TS]

00:48:25   surprised it's like oh I didn't know [TS]

00:48:26   that was gonna happen to this character [TS]

00:48:28   that's like so she'd represent something [TS]

00:48:30   different than I think there's a lot of [TS]

00:48:31   Cruelty net which I gotta say is [TS]

00:48:33   actually a not appealing per se but the [TS]

00:48:36   fact that you know the worlds that are [TS]

00:48:38   sort of primitive sort of a fantasy [TS]

00:48:39   world meets like medieval times the [TS]

00:48:41   guild the culture of things and it's the [TS]

00:48:43   fact that it's not sugarcoat it's not [TS]

00:48:45   people going haha I'm an evil person or [TS]

00:48:47   whatever it's just it's the casual [TS]

00:48:49   contempt of the ruling class for the [TS]

00:48:51   peasants and people are miss malformed [TS]

00:48:53   and kill the known and the really [TS]

00:48:54   question he cares because those people [TS]

00:48:55   don't count and I think there's some [TS]

00:48:57   incredible like Ferris million students [TS]

00:49:00   through that well and the other [TS]

00:49:02   corruption of the family has been ruling [TS]

00:49:04   has landed they are they are so corrupt [TS]

00:49:06   and just depraved in so many different [TS]

00:49:10   ways and that's well well done there [TS]

00:49:13   they're quite depraved it is it the [TS]

00:49:15   there but they're not just like single [TS]

00:49:18   note characters they all have depth and [TS]

00:49:21   so they have their you can kind of you [TS]

00:49:23   understand they all have this underlined [TS]

00:49:24   depravity right but they have other [TS]

00:49:26   things that make them interesting [TS]

00:49:28   yes who's your favorite character is my [TS]

00:49:31   question of those of us who read the [TS]

00:49:32   book who is the standout character for [TS]

00:49:34   you can I got one but i'm curious the [TS]

00:49:36   other files i like the the old dying [TS]

00:49:38   leader dude all interesting ok but [TS]

00:49:42   grandfather having really running the [TS]

00:49:44   kingdom try to run the kingdom at all [TS]

00:49:46   comes cried the most interesting [TS]

00:49:49   character is her mother who is never [TS]

00:49:51   seen because she's already dead and but [TS]

00:49:53   she said she sort of plan has plotted [TS]

00:49:55   out the entire thing that's fascinating [TS]

00:49:58   i was i was going to say the the low-key [TS]

00:50:00   like character the the eternally young [TS]

00:50:03   the first time he's the first child of [TS]

00:50:05   the Gods raising the first [TS]

00:50:06   yeah and he and that is I think it's a [TS]

00:50:09   remarkable character because she's able [TS]

00:50:11   to simulate this you know it's it's like [TS]

00:50:13   a doctor who is sort of thing in some [TS]

00:50:14   ways like someone who is simultaneously [TS]

00:50:16   infinitely old billions of years old and [TS]

00:50:18   yet is absolutely child-like in his [TS]

00:50:21   nature right he doesn't just look like a [TS]

00:50:23   child he thinks like a child because he [TS]

00:50:25   wants to be a china in the Sun bit but [TS]

00:50:27   he like wants to communicate with her he [TS]

00:50:29   wants to comfort himself as if she is [TS]

00:50:30   his mother and their spoilers there's a [TS]

00:50:33   mr. won't even say but but and she [TS]

00:50:36   thinks is this a sexual thing is [TS]

00:50:38   whatever and then she takes his army is [TS]

00:50:40   no he is like a child even though he's [TS]

00:50:42   no 4 billion years old or whatever and [TS]

00:50:44   that kind of thing like there's so much [TS]

00:50:46   in so much of what you read this fantasy [TS]

00:50:48   and science fiction is so much binary [TS]

00:50:50   stuff black-and-white lack of subtlety [TS]

00:50:53   and I just thought the book was so [TS]

00:50:54   beautifully shaded throughout even when [TS]

00:50:56   there is some you know dopey things [TS]

00:50:58   instead of the the sister the the [TS]

00:51:00   sisters an error the I guess half-sister [TS]

00:51:03   whatever of the our primary character or [TS]

00:51:07   she is sister i don't even know anyway [TS]

00:51:08   has some husband whenever she's there's [TS]

00:51:11   a set of siblings who are heirs to the [TS]

00:51:13   throne this upstart is brought in as the [TS]

00:51:15   third legitimate one and the sisters [TS]

00:51:17   playing pretty broad strokes but she's [TS]

00:51:19   she's cool and capricious but she sort [TS]

00:51:20   of karela deville and brother is [TS]

00:51:23   completely dissipated they're sort of [TS]

00:51:24   the weakest characters they have to sort [TS]

00:51:25   of fill a role but even with that said I [TS]

00:51:28   mean that's such a minor criticism of [TS]

00:51:29   the overall just gorgeousness of of it [TS]

00:51:32   it's not overwritten either she writes [TS]

00:51:34   beautifully without feeling that you're [TS]

00:51:35   reading something that's supposed to be [TS]

00:51:36   beautiful prose on the Nightlord the [TS]

00:51:39   character of all night Laura right i [TS]

00:51:40   mean that that every security we've [TS]

00:51:42   skipped right over him but it's such a [TS]

00:51:43   great character he's in the daytime he's [TS]

00:51:45   kind of suppressed by the light because [TS]

00:51:47   the what the Sun the Sun is the [TS]

00:51:48   representative of the white God who [TS]

00:51:50   suppressing them but at night he's the [TS]

00:51:52   black God he's the opposition but he's [TS]

00:51:54   bound now he comes you know much more [TS]

00:51:56   powerful at night and has all of these [TS]

00:51:59   you know [TS]

00:52:00   he's not he's not the devil right i mean [TS]

00:52:02   he's he's dangerous and can do horrible [TS]

00:52:07   things but yet you know he's got his own [TS]

00:52:09   perspective too and it's just it is very [TS]

00:52:11   very well done and very evocative and [TS]

00:52:14   and you know the attraction that the the [TS]

00:52:16   protagonist feels for him is not just [TS]

00:52:20   you know it's not like twilight was like [TS]

00:52:21   all vampire boys i love you you're so [TS]

00:52:24   shiny darkens it's it's um it's really [TS]

00:52:28   interesting and really horrible he is [TS]

00:52:31   yeah it's great you know I think there's [TS]

00:52:33   that I'm the notion of that like that [TS]

00:52:35   you know you want to believe you [TS]

00:52:36   York set up to expect this is additional [TS]

00:52:38   light and dark and black and white [TS]

00:52:40   blonde there's like there's a third got [TS]

00:52:41   it was not following me so captain and [TS]

00:52:43   they had this great creative thing the [TS]

00:52:45   universe was created through sort of the [TS]

00:52:47   fights of the white and the Dark Gods [TS]

00:52:50   and the creative forces the third god [TS]

00:52:52   that was woman who comes in a female [TS]

00:52:54   force she's like the mother of all [TS]

00:52:55   living things she's the green energy in [TS]

00:52:58   the world and create the procreative [TS]

00:53:00   energy and it's just AIT's I don't think [TS]

00:53:03   I can't say that I've ever read any [TS]

00:53:06   fantasy or even mythology in which you [TS]

00:53:08   have these roles occupied in this sort [TS]

00:53:11   of distinct interesting way it's it's a [TS]

00:53:13   very it's a great mythology someone [TS]

00:53:14   could make a religion out of this it [TS]

00:53:16   straight and I thought it was [TS]

00:53:17   interesting with the so you know the [TS]

00:53:19   third God wanted to create order and [TS]

00:53:22   bring about life and the other two gods [TS]

00:53:23   were kind of like I don't think we [TS]

00:53:25   really need the head [TS]

00:53:26   we're having so much fun doing all this [TS]

00:53:28   other stuff why should we bother [TS]

00:53:29   yeah we don't want to create life like [TS]

00:53:31   new message no I think we should have it [TS]

00:53:33   i think we should have some life messy [TS]

00:53:35   and unpredictable [TS]

00:53:36   it's a part of the universe's mind and [TS]

00:53:38   i'm going to create life and you're [TS]

00:53:39   gonna have to cope with that and i think [TS]

00:53:41   it's interesting that so the white God [TS]

00:53:43   who is you know kind of distant doesn't [TS]

00:53:46   make it appear until the the end of the [TS]

00:53:48   book and but he influences everything [TS]

00:53:51   and the main character through her [TS]

00:53:55   journey finds out that this God that [TS]

00:53:57   she's worshipped perhaps is not as great [TS]

00:54:00   as you know as pure as a shepherd [TS]

00:54:02   thought but yet she still has this this [TS]

00:54:05   programming a loving him and she she [TS]

00:54:09   finds it very difficult to go against [TS]

00:54:11   him because of [TS]

00:54:12   who her whole culture and her the way [TS]

00:54:14   should have brought up and I thought [TS]

00:54:16   that kind of attention was was done very [TS]

00:54:18   well yeah there's no the harry potter [TS]

00:54:21   ickiness of like why did they have to [TS]

00:54:23   say random weird words to get things to [TS]

00:54:25   happen it's like the universe's ordered [TS]

00:54:27   it makes sense within constraints that [TS]

00:54:28   are don't have to be explained but don't [TS]

00:54:30   seem stupid [TS]

00:54:32   I'm sorry I like Harry Potter but ideal [TS]

00:54:35   campaign Gladish incantation think it's [TS]

00:54:38   me so big thumbs up for the hundred [TS]

00:54:40   thousand can read yeah I'm very [TS]

00:54:42   surprised I you know I I don't want to [TS]

00:54:44   be too much better because obviously i [TS]

00:54:45   did not i read about half of it and i [TS]

00:54:47   will go back to at some point and finish [TS]

00:54:48   it but I was not impressed with the [TS]

00:54:50   first half of this but the next fifty [TS]

00:54:51   thousand really good so tell us and I'd [TS]

00:54:54   forgotten that you you you like like [TS]

00:54:56   Glenn with the Dervish house or a [TS]

00:54:58   partial yeah I i started it and I don't [TS]

00:55:02   know maybe i just read better fantasy [TS]

00:55:03   than you guys earlier in my life I don't [TS]

00:55:06   know they're just fighting words i tend [TS]

00:55:08   to read more stuff that you know is was [TS]

00:55:10   you know more complex as I didn't really [TS]

00:55:12   find much of the stuff in here [TS]

00:55:13   surprising or new or different to me it [TS]

00:55:15   really felt I don't know I felt kinda [TS]

00:55:18   cold to it i didn't even the part where [TS]

00:55:19   we sort of hit that and I hit that twist [TS]

00:55:21   you know where the with the main [TS]

00:55:22   character and sort of when you figure [TS]

00:55:23   out her nature of her and i was like [TS]

00:55:25   okay you know like it didn't really it [TS]

00:55:28   didn't really shocked or surprised me or [TS]

00:55:30   make me revisit that character anyways I [TS]

00:55:32   feel like that's something I've you know [TS]

00:55:33   that's that seems like a device i've [TS]

00:55:34   come across before I mean I I don't [TS]

00:55:37   think it's badly written [TS]

00:55:38   i think i agree that she's she has a [TS]

00:55:40   very you know good command and she's [TS]

00:55:41   setting up this world I just felt very [TS]

00:55:42   cold to it did not really implement any [TS]

00:55:45   any sort of response in me and and i [TS]

00:55:47   found the way I mean I understand the [TS]

00:55:50   rationale for the romantic aspect of it [TS]

00:55:53   but it felt melodramatic to me it felt a [TS]

00:55:56   little overplayed and overwrought and [TS]

00:55:58   and you know maybe again I i will finish [TS]

00:56:01   the book at and I will you know perhaps [TS]

00:56:03   that will change my impression that but [TS]

00:56:04   just speaking from having read the first [TS]

00:56:06   half i just i mean i put it down to read [TS]

00:56:09   because i had to read something I think [TS]

00:56:11   I still because I got embassy sounds [TS]

00:56:12   like a really interesting this and then [TS]

00:56:14   I and then I had not felt a desire to go [TS]

00:56:17   back to it [TS]

00:56:17   no you know dan you should check out [TS]

00:56:19   feed because I think you like that haha [TS]

00:56:22   wait a second [TS]

00:56:24   you know what's funny i was quite a bit [TS]

00:56:25   of fantasy although I probably not [TS]

00:56:27   sounds like you were deeply right but I [TS]

00:56:28   you know everyone is younger than a ton [TS]

00:56:30   of fantasy and I always felt enough to [TS]

00:56:33   read much less of it as I've got older [TS]

00:56:34   my turn more of sci-fi but I always felt [TS]

00:56:36   there was even the best fantasy I felt [TS]

00:56:39   there was some lot of shallow thinking [TS]

00:56:41   of the universe was created in order to [TS]

00:56:43   make put magic in it as opposed to a [TS]

00:56:44   universe that was created from [TS]

00:56:45   principals in which people function and [TS]

00:56:48   the magic sort of the structure of it [TS]

00:56:50   you know it's like a like this idea for [TS]

00:56:52   how we structure university know there's [TS]

00:56:53   a story that should come first I felt [TS]

00:56:55   here the narrative is very strong and [TS]

00:56:57   the universe sort of was built around it [TS]

00:56:59   and and consistently influenced the [TS]

00:57:03   nature of the story [TS]

00:57:04   no I was really skeptical going into it [TS]

00:57:06   I was like really I you know I i don't [TS]

00:57:09   know i just even when i started reading [TS]

00:57:11   it and it said that was part of a series [TS]

00:57:12   and I thought really if there's more of [TS]

00:57:14   these and it's sort of fantasy and you [TS]

00:57:17   know and within like three chapters I [TS]

00:57:18   was I was like all right this is this is [TS]

00:57:20   good stuff this is I was i buy with body [TS]

00:57:23   and and I don't came at a similar way [TS]

00:57:25   because I just have this prejudice [TS]

00:57:27   against fantasy I guess after reading so [TS]

00:57:29   much bad fantasy when I just assumed [TS]

00:57:31   that this would just be bad fantasy but [TS]

00:57:34   was short so i would read it and I'm [TS]

00:57:36   glad it because it was really good i [TS]

00:57:39   recommend book 22 it's a book to is a [TS]

00:57:40   very different story for smaller story [TS]

00:57:42   and you get more of the get more stories [TS]

00:57:45   about people but there's a big you know [TS]

00:57:46   universe destroying business in it as [TS]

00:57:48   well as there has to be in these kinds [TS]

00:57:50   of stories of but it's a it's a quite [TS]

00:57:52   different quite interesting as well I [TS]

00:57:53   like the protagonist blind woman is [TS]

00:57:56   quite lovely [TS]

00:57:57   alright my ballot by the way and this [TS]

00:58:02   will come as no surprise given if you [TS]

00:58:04   listen to this is the Dervish house [TS]

00:58:06   followed by the hundred thousand [TS]

00:58:09   kingdoms followed by no award I i feel [TS]

00:58:14   that i feel that the other three [TS]

00:58:16   nominees here really really don't [TS]

00:58:17   deserve an award by auburn would have [TS]

00:58:19   been next then blackout all clear and of [TS]

00:58:21   course last would be feed less that I [TS]

00:58:24   really think duration hundred thousand [TS]

00:58:26   kingdoms the only ones even worthy of [TS]

00:58:27   winning [TS]

00:58:28   yeah those are those I think I've ever [TS]

00:58:30   read [TS]

00:58:31   kinda Wilson the other one but i figured [TS]

00:58:35   there were also a number of fine [TS]

00:58:37   additional shorter pieces of fiction [TS]

00:58:39   rekha nominated for the hugo awards this [TS]

00:58:42   year [TS]

00:58:43   yeah let's let's mention a couple of [TS]

00:58:45   standouts really quickly before before [TS]

00:58:47   we conclude the hugo portion of our [TS]

00:58:49   program girl and I never read anything [TS]

00:58:52   by Rachel sports key before I think [TS]

00:58:53   she's written a fair amount is that [TS]

00:58:55   right the woman realia the lady who [TS]

00:58:57   plucked red flowers beneath the Queen's [TS]

00:58:58   window fantastic that got my vote for [TS]

00:59:01   best thanks it's a also fantasy [TS]

00:59:04   yeah and essentially a very complicated [TS]

00:59:06   and stunning realization of light and [TS]

00:59:08   you can read it online for free into a [TS]

00:59:10   lot of two it's like you know it's a [TS]

00:59:11   world again world with magic and but the [TS]

00:59:14   passage of enormous scope of time and [TS]

00:59:17   while woman is a magician or which sort [TS]

00:59:19   of you know put into a form which you [TS]

00:59:21   can be called up at will by people with [TS]

00:59:23   the right incantation and comes in two [TS]

00:59:25   different cultures past civilizations [TS]

00:59:27   rise and fall there are you know sort of [TS]

00:59:29   a new civilization Rises which they want [TS]

00:59:31   her help to change things and she [TS]

00:59:33   refuses because they're not women and [TS]

00:59:35   selling women's magic and it's just a [TS]

00:59:37   crazy amount of detail in it and [TS]

00:59:39   marvelous it's like even though it's [TS]

00:59:41   fantasy it's a story about immortality [TS]

00:59:44   yeah in the truest sense which is [TS]

00:59:46   immortality doesn't mean yeah I get to [TS]

00:59:49   live live my life that I have now [TS]

00:59:51   forever it means that like in 10,000 [TS]

00:59:54   years when you can't recognize anything [TS]

00:59:56   about civilization or anything [TS]

00:59:59   you're still there [TS]

00:59:59   you're still there [TS]

01:00:00   and that's what happens with this [TS]

01:00:01   character she keeps getting really [TS]

01:00:02   summoned and you know it's for fastening [TS]

01:00:06   she's like whatever happened to the hill [TS]

01:00:08   people like I have no idea what you're [TS]

01:00:09   talking about anyway we have a question [TS]

01:00:11   for you and she's you know this is all [TS]

01:00:13   she all she can do is get these glimpses [TS]

01:00:15   of these various cultures as she sort of [TS]

01:00:18   fast-forwards through you know through [TS]

01:00:20   basically many fantasy novels that are [TS]

01:00:23   happening and you get a little fraction [TS]

01:00:25   of it while she's there and then off [TS]

01:00:27   she's off to the next thing you have any [TS]

01:00:28   others that you read that you thought [TS]

01:00:30   were particularly interesting well I i [TS]

01:00:32   really liked chang who we talked about a [TS]

01:00:34   different podcast lifecycle of software [TS]

01:00:37   objects I'd say we talk about that then [TS]

01:00:39   is uh it's a it's a good story but it [TS]

01:00:41   feels more like a rumination instead of [TS]

01:00:43   a short story or a novella rather its [TS]

01:00:45   law in his past yeah it's very [TS]

01:00:47   interesting i mean i enjoyed reading it [TS]

01:00:49   but i think that since one of completion [TS]

01:00:51   was like oh this was a great story with [TS]

01:00:53   fully realized characters in it was more [TS]

01:00:55   like what a bunch of interesting ideas [TS]

01:00:57   how fascinating a lot of these nominees [TS]

01:01:00   are online and we'll post a link in our [TS]

01:01:01   show notes on the incomparable com [TS]

01:01:03   so you can go and find some of the hugo [TS]

01:01:05   nominated stories because they they did [TS]

01:01:08   put a lot of them up as PDFs or just on [TS]

01:01:11   web pages and so you can get a chance to [TS]

01:01:14   to read them the ones that stood out for [TS]

01:01:17   me other than the lady who plucked red [TS]

01:01:18   flowers beneath the Queen's window which [TS]

01:01:20   is a really great story historical [TS]

01:01:22   troika by alastair reynolds which is [TS]

01:01:26   Scott Scott Malastare Reynolds book on [TS]

01:01:28   his on his bookshelf or on his desk [TS]

01:01:30   right there on my desk right now [TS]

01:01:31   terminal world now so I'd never read [TS]

01:01:34   anything by alastair reynolds I think [TS]

01:01:35   that maybe an occasional short story [TS]

01:01:36   torque is really good it's um it's the [TS]

01:01:39   strange story about Russians russian [TS]

01:01:41   cosmonauts in a reform Soviet Union who [TS]

01:01:44   gets sent to this weird object that has [TS]

01:01:49   been located in in orbit that is [TS]

01:01:52   artificial in nature and but it's sold [TS]

01:01:56   told from the perspective of the only [TS]

01:01:57   one of them who is still alive and he's [TS]

01:02:00   in a mental institution and he is in [TS]

01:02:03   Siberia and he escapes to try and find [TS]

01:02:06   somebody [TS]

01:02:06   it's cool it's crazy and it's good it's [TS]

01:02:09   really good i also like to the [TS]

01:02:13   one of the novel at nominees plus or [TS]

01:02:15   minus by james patrick kelly which is [TS]

01:02:17   about people on a spaceship this crew on [TS]

01:02:20   a spaceship and there there's a an [TS]

01:02:24   accident and it's very much like cold [TS]

01:02:26   equations kind of story there's an [TS]

01:02:27   accident they have to figure out what [TS]

01:02:30   they're going to do to survive it while [TS]

01:02:32   they're on this spaceship so that they [TS]

01:02:34   don't run out of oxygen and and [TS]

01:02:36   suffocate that I thought was pretty good [TS]

01:02:38   and and a story called eight miles by [TS]

01:02:41   Sean McMullen which is basically about a [TS]

01:02:43   guy who's a balloonist in i think the [TS]

01:02:47   19th century and he i'm interested he's [TS]

01:02:51   commissioned to take the balloon eight [TS]

01:02:53   miles up which is above the [TS]

01:02:54   breathability area for people and and [TS]

01:02:57   the reason is that there's this creature [TS]

01:03:00   who looks like a human being but was [TS]

01:03:04   found at high elevation and the the guy [TS]

01:03:07   who found who think has a theory that if [TS]

01:03:09   they take her up to eight miles high [TS]

01:03:13   she will be able to communicate because [TS]

01:03:16   she will be no longer be drunken by the [TS]

01:03:18   thick atmosphere of Earth surface and [TS]

01:03:21   it's it and it's really cool it's a it's [TS]

01:03:23   a great idea and and it is it you know [TS]

01:03:26   it's very retro it's very you know what [TS]

01:03:28   what what would it be like if there were [TS]

01:03:30   people who lived on Mars where the air [TS]

01:03:32   is thinner than it is on earth and the [TS]

01:03:36   short stories like there's one Kerry Von [TS]

01:03:39   have a shirt circled amaryllis which is [TS]

01:03:41   kind of interesting about people on a [TS]

01:03:42   ship in the future with their resource [TS]

01:03:45   constraints and they want to have a baby [TS]

01:03:46   and and a story by Peter what's called [TS]

01:03:50   the things which i really like to which [TS]

01:03:52   is the story of the movie the thing [TS]

01:03:54   where there's there in Antarctica and [TS]

01:03:56   there's this alien thing and it takes [TS]

01:03:57   over people's bodies and stuff like that [TS]

01:03:59   that you very well-known movie this is a [TS]

01:04:03   short story about that same thing [TS]

01:04:06   basically from the perspective of the [TS]

01:04:07   alien and it's really quite good so [TS]

01:04:10   frozen like there's a story a Grendel [TS]

01:04:13   you know which is payable tall candles [TS]

01:04:15   and classic high school reading material [TS]

01:04:18   African glasses so the bonus that we [TS]

01:04:21   didn't get to hear is that we want to [TS]

01:04:23   talk about China Mieville book embassy [TS]

01:04:26   town which there are some very strong [TS]

01:04:29   opinions on this among our panel I know [TS]

01:04:31   but we're gonna have to save it for a [TS]

01:04:33   future podcast dear listener if you some [TS]

01:04:37   of us enjoyed embassy town and think you [TS]

01:04:39   should read it and then two and then [TS]

01:04:40   tune in to our podcast where we talk [TS]

01:04:42   about it [TS]

01:04:43   dan moore and however suggest that you [TS]

01:04:44   don't you suggest you buy a copy and [TS]

01:04:47   burn it [TS]

01:04:47   I would never ok my parents are [TS]

01:04:50   librarians I would never ever get [TS]

01:04:51   burning books acceptance return a [TS]

01:04:53   library [TS]

01:04:53   yes yes donated anyway it uh until next [TS]

01:04:57   time when we will discuss wide and more [TS]

01:04:59   in heitz embassy town and all other [TS]

01:05:01   things I feel so bad now [TS]

01:05:04   no I feel bad that you hated because [TS]

01:05:06   it's really long [TS]

01:05:08   it's not so much long as its dense he's [TS]

01:05:11   gonna come and beat up and it's not so [TS]

01:05:13   long as usual kind of meatballs a [TS]

01:05:14   scary-looking he's a brutally as well [TS]

01:05:17   you could take you out your scrawny then [TS]

01:05:19   it's fun being in a book club but now we [TS]

01:05:20   have to go so until next time [TS]

01:05:22   dear listeners I i'm jason l and i would [TS]

01:05:24   like to bid farewell for now and [TS]

01:05:26   Fleischmann thank you for being here [TS]

01:05:27   Glenn thank you so much Dan Morgan thank [TS]

01:05:30   you [TS]

01:05:30   thanks Jason and Scott McNulty thank you [TS]

01:05:34   Jason you have won the hugo of my heart [TS]

01:05:37   and and Scott you can't see it but i'm [TS]

01:05:42   giving you a big hug right home [TS]

01:05:44   I feel touched right the hug awards huh [TS]

01:05:48   goes [TS]

01:05:49   yes and on that note farewell everybody [TS]

01:05:52   and hope you read some of these books [TS]

01:05:54   and like them not feed but don't really [TS]

01:05:56   think that just turned to it until next [TS]

01:06:01   time thanks for listening to part [TS]

01:06:04   [Music] [TS]