The Incomparable

45: Lesbian, Silurian, Victorian


00:00:00   would you like me to repeat the question [TS]

00:00:05   the incomparable podcast number 45 [TS]

00:00:12   jun 2011 [TS]

00:00:16   we're back on the uncomfortable podcast [TS]

00:00:19   I'm your host Jason snow we have been [TS]

00:00:21   doing some flash podcast where we talk [TS]

00:00:24   about Doctor Who episodes they've been [TS]

00:00:26   airing both in the UK and in the u.s. [TS]

00:00:28   because it's a show that seems worth [TS]

00:00:30   talking about now we haven't done one [TS]

00:00:32   for a few weeks there was a two-part [TS]

00:00:34   episode and then a midseason finale [TS]

00:00:37   there were some delays in the US [TS]

00:00:39   compared to the UK anyway so to wrap it [TS]

00:00:42   all up this first half season of doctor [TS]

00:00:44   who was it doesn't come back to the fall [TS]

00:00:46   we decided to do a full-fledged [TS]

00:00:48   incomparable podcast about the first [TS]

00:00:50   half of series 6 of Doctor Who joining [TS]

00:00:53   me tonight to discuss doctor who r Scott [TS]

00:00:56   McNulty hi Scott [TS]

00:00:58   hello Glenn fleischmann a holy serenity [TS]

00:01:03   Caldwell [TS]

00:01:04   by who hello Dan more'n Oh trying to [TS]

00:01:09   make my TARDIS nice i was a bad targets [TS]

00:01:11   noise I it's hard I tried I need you [TS]

00:01:14   need some phlegm [TS]

00:01:15   I don't have a parking brake to put on [TS]

00:01:17   and John siracusa good evening isn't [TS]

00:01:20   good evening [TS]

00:01:21   so what I'd like to do to start off is [TS]

00:01:25   to talk before we talk about the this [TS]

00:01:27   half season as a whole are as a half [TS]

00:01:31   I don't know strange what they're doing [TS]

00:01:35   I I want to go back and talk about the [TS]

00:01:36   two stories we haven't discussed on the [TS]

00:01:40   incomparable the first of which is this [TS]

00:01:43   two-part episode with the gangers called [TS]

00:01:47   the rebel flesh and the almost people [TS]

00:01:51   which aired right before this mid-season [TS]

00:01:54   finale called a good man goes to war it [TS]

00:01:57   would anybody like to to open the [TS]

00:02:00   proceedings about this very peculiar [TS]

00:02:02   this story set in a monastery but old [TS]

00:02:07   monastery but in the future and they're [TS]

00:02:08   pumping acid somewhere around there and [TS]

00:02:11   just askin what why is the full of acid [TS]

00:02:13   did I miss something back and rewatch is [TS]

00:02:15   important it's a monastery and yeah why [TS]

00:02:18   did they write these episodes [TS]

00:02:19   maybe the other than the setup that I [TS]

00:02:22   think that was pretty much it [TS]

00:02:24   I think I mean I said they wanted the [TS]

00:02:25   closed-door mysteries they wanted a very [TS]

00:02:27   limited set of rooms [TS]

00:02:28   and monasteries are cool it did look [TS]

00:02:30   great I thought it looked fantastic i [TS]

00:02:32   love the idea that it would look old but [TS]

00:02:34   was supposed to be in the future i think [TS]

00:02:36   that was a very strange welcome and it [TS]

00:02:38   was weird because you couldn't quite [TS]

00:02:40   tell where it was like in the setting [TS]

00:02:42   because clearly was in the future our [TS]

00:02:44   future right but they also make a [TS]

00:02:46   comment about like all it's the only [TS]

00:02:48   thing out there at some point and so you [TS]

00:02:51   know you can tell like it's an [TS]

00:02:52   indefinite future it's also been a very [TS]

00:02:56   i could find out such a ring of water of [TS]

00:02:58   mars that I could not stand the first [TS]

00:03:00   part the second part of different [TS]

00:03:01   feelings about the first part I'm like [TS]

00:03:02   this is water of mars with slightly [TS]

00:03:04   different monsters that are equally as [TS]

00:03:05   creepy and it's sort of like they're [TS]

00:03:07   being body-snatched but not quite and [TS]

00:03:09   you know it just it felt like the first [TS]

00:03:11   part felt like a ridiculous retread with [TS]

00:03:14   you know had a very contrived bits and [TS]

00:03:17   pieces but the second I have a thought [TS]

00:03:19   retrieved a lot of that dross see and I [TS]

00:03:22   think my view is actually the opposite [TS]

00:03:24   of that which is I really liked the [TS]

00:03:26   first episode because you know there are [TS]

00:03:28   there things in it that are really [TS]

00:03:29   questionable like why are they pumping [TS]

00:03:31   acid everything sort of hand wave that [TS]

00:03:34   is a well there's acid people need acid [TS]

00:03:36   you gotta plug but but um what I liked [TS]

00:03:39   about it was that the gangers you know [TS]

00:03:42   doctor who has this history of having [TS]

00:03:45   these monsters that are that are maybe a [TS]

00:03:47   little bit broad they want to take over [TS]

00:03:48   the universe the galaxy what have you [TS]

00:03:50   and in this episode [TS]

00:03:54   what what what happens is that they are [TS]

00:03:56   not there there's a dilemma because [TS]

00:03:58   they're not monsters really they're just [TS]

00:04:01   duplicates and the reason they're [TS]

00:04:02   monstrous is because they're threatening [TS]

00:04:05   your place in the universe which is a [TS]

00:04:07   very different kind of thing and I [TS]

00:04:09   really kind of thought that was cool i [TS]

00:04:10   thought that was a really interesting [TS]

00:04:11   idea and an interesting dilemma to set [TS]

00:04:14   the characters on now I i do think in [TS]

00:04:16   the second episode it got kind of weird [TS]

00:04:19   and make created a monster where I think [TS]

00:04:21   maybe they're didn't need to be one [TS]

00:04:23   except they felt they need to have a [TS]

00:04:24   like one of the gangers is super evil [TS]

00:04:27   when grows up crazy monster head [TS]

00:04:30   I you know that that didn't that didn't [TS]

00:04:33   make it for me but the first episode I [TS]

00:04:34   think set up a lot of those interesting [TS]

00:04:36   a moral questions and then the the for [TS]

00:04:39   me the second episode that the best [TS]

00:04:41   thing about it was that [TS]

00:04:41   there were two doctors and all of the [TS]

00:04:43   questions that brought up [TS]

00:04:45   yeah i mean i have to say in terms of [TS]

00:04:48   the first episode should we blow the [TS]

00:04:49   spoiler horn and we assuming that it's [TS]

00:04:51   all it's all spoilers from here on out [TS]

00:04:53   it's all spoilers but all the way down [TS]

00:04:55   but as well as all the way down [TS]

00:04:57   okay i think the for the thing that [TS]

00:04:59   really changes for me between the first [TS]

00:05:00   part the second part is that Jennifer [TS]

00:05:02   who is you know ganger Jennifer dig [TS]

00:05:06   Jennifer is what the person that we kind [TS]

00:05:08   of identify with inserts half [TS]

00:05:11   yeah we're she's like I can still [TS]

00:05:13   remember my wellies and like she's [TS]

00:05:15   really struggling with the fact that she [TS]

00:05:17   has all these memories and she doesn't [TS]

00:05:19   know what to make of them and she's the [TS]

00:05:21   only one of the gangers who's even [TS]

00:05:22   remotely receptive to the idea of all [TS]

00:05:24   these people are nice and I maybe a [TS]

00:05:26   duplicate but i can still fit in and [TS]

00:05:29   then like she just kind of switches she [TS]

00:05:31   turns on a switch about go soft she goes [TS]

00:05:33   off the deep end [TS]

00:05:34   yeah she goes from well maybe these guys [TS]

00:05:36   are good too she sees one of the other [TS]

00:05:38   gangers basically died and she goes from [TS]

00:05:40   these guys can be good to know [TS]

00:05:43   all humans are evil we must kill the [TS]

00:05:45   humans and i'm going to morph into a [TS]

00:05:47   crazy [TS]

00:05:48   oh it's like something from james and [TS]

00:05:50   the giant I catchweight it would've made [TS]

00:05:52   more sense to me if that what they had [TS]

00:05:54   said is you know the flesh itself is [TS]

00:05:56   pissed off and it's going to take over [TS]

00:05:58   her body and just wants to kill [TS]

00:06:00   everybody but instead it was just yeah [TS]

00:06:02   she just has a change of character and [TS]

00:06:04   decides to be a monster and I felt [TS]

00:06:07   totally undercut the whole idea of these [TS]

00:06:09   other people which is that they were [TS]

00:06:11   really just people [TS]

00:06:13   well you know what i think is the [TS]

00:06:15   interesting part about the flesh is that [TS]

00:06:17   the Flex is genuinely it's you know it's [TS]

00:06:20   alive but it's not thinking matter until [TS]

00:06:23   we put consciousness into them because [TS]

00:06:25   when you when you come to the later [TS]

00:06:27   reveal that happens at the end of the [TS]

00:06:28   two-parter you realize oh well there has [TS]

00:06:31   been you know there's been a flesh body [TS]

00:06:32   walking around for a while but but but [TS]

00:06:35   it has no like flesh consciousness you [TS]

00:06:37   know the flesh the flesh is really just [TS]

00:06:40   an avatar until this freak accident so [TS]

00:06:43   it gets struck by lightning because and [TS]

00:06:44   as we know all know for would really [TS]

00:06:46   like crazy 80s movies like when stuff [TS]

00:06:48   gets struck by lightning [TS]

00:06:49   like anything can happen [TS]

00:06:50   in cabinet but you have to be an old [TS]

00:06:52   tower though that there's acid lightning [TS]

00:06:54   and an old tower if i learned anything [TS]

00:06:57   short circuit it's that lightning [TS]

00:06:59   strikes bring sentence in a crime you [TS]

00:07:02   take those tablets they were lying on [TS]

00:07:03   the act of crank them up higher that [TS]

00:07:06   would have been better to better [TS]

00:07:08   I you know what bug me i mean i think i [TS]

00:07:10   agree with Jason that the the idea is [TS]

00:07:12   really interesting i feel like the [TS]

00:07:13   execution did not do justice to it just [TS]

00:07:17   in terms of I don't know it's something [TS]

00:07:18   failed to crystallize for me it's also [TS]

00:07:20   it was full of horrible plot holes like [TS]

00:07:22   was football they have I don't even I [TS]

00:07:24   know that I don't usually notice bottles [TS]

00:07:25   but even I condominium is a painful the [TS]

00:07:28   device that Jennifer put your hand on it [TS]

00:07:30   says non-human life-forms recognize them [TS]

00:07:32   like so they can't get anything done [TS]

00:07:34   they know there's a problem with the [TS]

00:07:35   flesh then she grabs worry and says [TS]

00:07:37   stick your hand here that says human [TS]

00:07:38   life form recognize I'm like he's not an [TS]

00:07:41   idiot you know like the character [TS]

00:07:42   sometimes a little goldfish please not [TS]

00:07:44   Homer Simpson would go on now why did [TS]

00:07:47   you have me do that you know they're [TS]

00:07:49   like that's just it was so against type [TS]

00:07:51   it was just happy not to die but the [TS]

00:07:53   thing that bothered me and this was this [TS]

00:07:55   was the total random puddle but like a I [TS]

00:07:58   wasn't first of all I wasn't clear [TS]

00:07:59   whether or not there were like this very [TS]

00:08:02   strange but there are two sonic [TS]

00:08:03   screwdrivers are not because at one [TS]

00:08:04   point one of the doctors gives his to [TS]

00:08:05   someone else but then they both have [TS]

00:08:07   them there I'm and Polly and yeah but at [TS]

00:08:10   the same time the thing that really [TS]

00:08:11   bothered me was I thought when he gave [TS]

00:08:12   his away like oh ok so just have a [TS]

00:08:14   screwdriver and there's a scene where [TS]

00:08:15   they'll get locked in a room and god [TS]

00:08:17   David if we know there's one thing the [TS]

00:08:18   screwdrivers good for its opening locked [TS]

00:08:20   door [TS]

00:08:21   that's why didn't they just you are you [TS]

00:08:25   know that character thing that Jason was [TS]

00:08:26   complaining about whether the character [TS]

00:08:28   just changes from you know the [TS]

00:08:29   sympathetic person to want to kill [TS]

00:08:31   everybody [TS]

00:08:32   it's kind of a specific case of the same [TS]

00:08:34   general problem with the flesh with with [TS]

00:08:36   Doctor Who in general is that they don't [TS]

00:08:38   feel any compelling need to explain [TS]

00:08:40   stuff in any logical fashion and the and [TS]

00:08:44   that can be good and charming but at a [TS]

00:08:46   certain point it's just super duper lazy [TS]

00:08:49   so right now you already made this point [TS]

00:08:50   about the flesh like you're going to the [TS]

00:08:51   sci-fi thing where it's like you have [TS]

00:08:53   made us and we are artificial but are we [TS]

00:08:55   not life you know that type of thing [TS]

00:08:57   right so the beginning of of the rebel [TS]

00:08:59   flesh the flesh is basically a machine [TS]

00:09:02   like they inhabit it and when [TS]

00:09:03   done happening it's nothing it's just as [TS]

00:09:05   group right and then magically like [TS]

00:09:07   because that's the world this flashes in [TS]

00:09:09   its like we use this is a tool that [TS]

00:09:10   these people these workers are not [TS]

00:09:12   having moral dilemmas like in the [TS]

00:09:13   darkest of night about oh aren't we [TS]

00:09:16   taking advantage of this flash it's a [TS]

00:09:17   tool you know it's inanimate nonliving [TS]

00:09:19   well I was living and I was like a plant [TS]

00:09:21   you know it's not it's not consciousness [TS]

00:09:23   and then midway through this episode [TS]

00:09:25   they're confronted with the reality like [TS]

00:09:26   oh hey guess what your entire [TS]

00:09:28   consciousness is in there and now these [TS]

00:09:29   are living things and now all of a [TS]

00:09:30   sudden that you know it's not it's not [TS]

00:09:32   as if you're dropped into a sci-fi world [TS]

00:09:33   where there are sentient beings being [TS]

00:09:35   used as slaves and then you have to deal [TS]

00:09:37   with the other the dilemma rises [TS]

00:09:39   instantly for you know the Lightning [TS]

00:09:40   reason whatever crazy reason want to [TS]

00:09:41   make up and the same thing with like [TS]

00:09:43   that the character is changing [TS]

00:09:45   motivations like we don't really have to [TS]

00:09:46   explain why this is just what's [TS]

00:09:48   happening and just go with it you know [TS]

00:09:49   you missed a really good opportunity to [TS]

00:09:50   which is that they had the feeling that [TS]

00:09:52   there was a central Food hindbrain or [TS]

00:09:54   whatever forebrain whatever rate and & [TS]

00:09:56   the hoot are all individual organisms [TS]

00:09:58   with their own thoughts but they also [TS]

00:10:00   share this colonial telepathic link i [TS]

00:10:02   know that was very clever the whole [TS]

00:10:03   mechanism and so they had a chance here [TS]

00:10:06   to say let's do something different will [TS]

00:10:08   say they're actually is this is a [TS]

00:10:09   colonial organism is it like every cell [TS]

00:10:11   retains a memory and so the [TS]

00:10:13   consciousness of people they've been [TS]

00:10:14   using these tools but it's actually [TS]

00:10:15   overlaying and suppressing this [TS]

00:10:17   consciousness the lightning brought out [TS]

00:10:19   and now that consciousness is coming [TS]

00:10:21   before it's been individuated I mean [TS]

00:10:23   there's like a there's there's a lot of [TS]

00:10:24   clever ethical dilemmas you could raise [TS]

00:10:27   hear about cloning people and whatever [TS]

00:10:29   that could be masked in the syfy venir [TS]

00:10:31   but instead it was like they have no [TS]

00:10:33   consciousness they have Custer not [TS]

00:10:34   monsters are just like us [TS]

00:10:35   wait what's this other they have other [TS]

00:10:37   memories Oh their memories are part of [TS]

00:10:39   this colonial thing but no they don't [TS]

00:10:40   have memories indices dissolved versions [TS]

00:10:42   of old flesh lying in the corner i'm [TS]

00:10:44   like i'm gonna throw them in the acid [TS]

00:10:46   why didn't the federal the old we have [TS]

00:10:47   acid right there are we supposed to feel [TS]

00:10:49   bad about those and just kidding this [TS]

00:10:51   one was actually monster because like [TS]

00:10:53   you know again the pre consciousness [TS]

00:10:56   flashes not just amount of group you [TS]

00:10:58   know it you can't really feel bad for [TS]

00:11:00   that for the people [TS]

00:11:01   those were the old skip though I thought [TS]

00:11:03   they had I thought she had faked those [TS]

00:11:04   that was my nose my reading a map but [TS]

00:11:06   perhaps was not clearly you thought she [TS]

00:11:07   well I don't I thought she had faked [TS]

00:11:09   those I thought Jennifer take those to [TS]

00:11:10   play on Rory was that was how I read it [TS]

00:11:13   does however it i think they were real [TS]

00:11:15   but I mean yeah [TS]

00:11:17   well they may establish also that there [TS]

00:11:19   is some kind of residual memory left in [TS]

00:11:21   the flesh after that because it's the am [TS]

00:11:22   the captain who is like the last thing I [TS]

00:11:25   are you know is why you can look into [TS]

00:11:27   their eyes and you can see as they [TS]

00:11:29   dissolve why and like so I can kind of [TS]

00:11:33   by that but I wouldn't they know they [TS]

00:11:35   created this thing when they know like [TS]

00:11:37   isn't conscious or not because it's like [TS]

00:11:39   that the world before the beginning of [TS]

00:11:41   this episode they didn't create it [TS]

00:11:42   though I thought they found out I I [TS]

00:11:44   don't like to skipping way to the end of [TS]

00:11:46   the second episode of this thing with [TS]

00:11:48   the people like we're going to fight for [TS]

00:11:49   our rights like your rights as of an [TS]

00:11:51   episode ago because prior to that you [TS]

00:11:53   were you were a tool and no and no one [TS]

00:11:55   gave you any thought and then it's not [TS]

00:11:57   like we can I don't like it you can work [TS]

00:11:58   out much hatred for these people like [TS]

00:11:59   look how horrible they are taking [TS]

00:12:01   advantage of this flesh they didn't even [TS]

00:12:02   know was conscious until like five [TS]

00:12:03   minutes ago [TS]

00:12:04   you can't condemn all of humanity and [TS]

00:12:06   they're gross you know use of science to [TS]

00:12:09   make this horrible creature because [TS]

00:12:10   seriously it was not conscious and with [TS]

00:12:12   any product to because at the end the [TS]

00:12:14   episode the doctor drops in that you [TS]

00:12:15   know gigantic Corp all they have to do [TS]

00:12:17   is go and say hey it's conscious and [TS]

00:12:19   then everyone's fine like like they [TS]

00:12:21   leaving her the front door to go in the [TS]

00:12:23   other worker just go in there and [TS]

00:12:25   telemental make everything right I'm [TS]

00:12:26   like wait a minute I've seen Doctor Who [TS]

00:12:28   corporations don't always act you know [TS]

00:12:30   it's like the corporation they ever know [TS]

00:12:32   but you took mine acid mining [TS]

00:12:34   corporation that's what I get your asses [TS]

00:12:36   well I mean you don't know that they [TS]

00:12:37   won't because it as far as they were [TS]

00:12:39   concerned like a forklift coming in and [TS]

00:12:40   say we're not actually forklifts when we [TS]

00:12:42   break don't scrap us because we're alive [TS]

00:12:44   and they're going [TS]

00:12:45   wait you're alive aren't you a forklift [TS]

00:12:47   oh yeah five minutes ago we were there [TS]

00:12:49   was lightning and now actually were like [TS]

00:12:50   people so many like her and I i guess so [TS]

00:12:53   will be nice to now you seem like nice [TS]

00:12:54   people [TS]

00:12:55   you look exactly like I'm corporations [TS]

00:12:57   to change policy i see your SEO [TS]

00:12:59   distribution political version Bob the [TS]

00:13:00   Builder ahead behind i think actually [TS]

00:13:04   that is Bob the Builder write the [TS]

00:13:06   sentence later [TS]

00:13:07   oh my god it's totally the people so I i [TS]

00:13:11   do think I I think you guys are right in [TS]

00:13:12   saying that one of the reasons for this [TS]

00:13:14   episode to be there is that they wanted [TS]

00:13:16   to have this duplicate storyline because [TS]

00:13:19   at the end of the second episode we [TS]

00:13:21   discovered that Amy is a forklift right [TS]

00:13:23   one at one of the reasons i would go [TS]

00:13:25   with the video immediately [TS]

00:13:27   Jason major maybe just the major and [TS]

00:13:30   have to doctor and have two doctors [TS]

00:13:32   running around and plus the middle of [TS]

00:13:34   the acid and that they had extra acid [TS]

00:13:36   excess acid know the to dr. stuff i [TS]

00:13:38   thought was really interesting in that [TS]

00:13:39   the doctor switch shoes I I thought that [TS]

00:13:41   was going to be when he loses his shoes [TS]

00:13:45   I thought well they're gonna use that as [TS]

00:13:46   a way to decide we're doctors the real [TS]

00:13:48   one in it [TS]

00:13:48   nice pivot to have them switch the shoes [TS]

00:13:52   because the doctor is clever that way to [TS]

00:13:54   see how people react I thought that was [TS]

00:13:56   good and I thought the fundamental [TS]

00:13:58   question of it goes a little bit off the [TS]

00:13:59   deep end in terms of like proving you [TS]

00:14:01   know right differentiate himself slammed [TS]

00:14:04   her against all [TS]

00:14:05   yeah that was a little odd yeah but you [TS]

00:14:07   know I thought I thought the exploring [TS]

00:14:09   those concepts part of it was good but [TS]

00:14:11   that that at the same time they had to [TS]

00:14:13   wrap up the plot and they had to [TS]

00:14:15   you've got the feeling they were ticking [TS]

00:14:16   the boxes of what we have to have a [TS]

00:14:17   monster so we'll have Jennifer turn into [TS]

00:14:19   a monster and we have to have this [TS]

00:14:20   various jeopardy so we're going to do [TS]

00:14:22   these things and that you know maybe it [TS]

00:14:24   wouldn't have been as exciting episode [TS]

00:14:25   for them to just deal with issues of [TS]

00:14:26   identity right you gotta have some acid [TS]

00:14:29   in there too but in the end all the [TS]

00:14:31   wrap-up was unsatisfying and it felt [TS]

00:14:33   like they are really at that point just [TS]

00:14:35   that with a dispute some ideas out there [TS]

00:14:37   that we're kind of interesting I thought [TS]

00:14:38   the tone of the first episode because [TS]

00:14:40   it's kind of dark and weird castle and [TS]

00:14:42   bubbly acid and stuff I i really enjoyed [TS]

00:14:45   the the look in the end the feel of it [TS]

00:14:47   but in the end they're like okay we just [TS]

00:14:48   need to wrap the plot so that we can get [TS]

00:14:50   to that seen in the TARDIS where Amy [TS]

00:14:52   disappears [TS]

00:14:53   speaking of that scene like they just [TS]

00:14:55   spent two episodes on this whole [TS]

00:14:56   heartwarming story of like it's a new [TS]

00:14:58   consciousness that is respected like all [TS]

00:15:00   the life and we find out amy is flesh [TS]

00:15:02   and what is the doctor do our mountain [TS]

00:15:03   that grabs right about that instead [TS]

00:15:05   don't forget about the hello but there [TS]

00:15:07   are people too she's wired in like at [TS]

00:15:09   the beginning but you're right he wasn't [TS]

00:15:11   conscious though technically what is a [TS]

00:15:13   white man's conscience or not like she's [TS]

00:15:15   remote controlling it but if she wasn't [TS]

00:15:16   she wasn't struck by lightning know what [TS]

00:15:18   is it was totally like it doesn't make [TS]

00:15:21   sense within like is the flash alive or [TS]

00:15:23   is it just something that you control [TS]

00:15:24   and if you think it's just thinking you [TS]

00:15:25   control sure the doctor can nuke it in [TS]

00:15:26   turn into group but if it's if she had [TS]

00:15:29   disconnected from it then wouldn't that [TS]

00:15:31   flesh be like the duplicate of Amy that [TS]

00:15:33   would be alive and we're supposed to [TS]

00:15:34   respect like it was right after the [TS]

00:15:36   scene where they're fighting for their [TS]

00:15:37   rights you know [TS]

00:15:38   yeah i mean i think the difference is [TS]

00:15:40   the difference between flush controlled [TS]

00:15:42   and then flush that is basically been [TS]

00:15:44   made into its own it's like a robot that [TS]

00:15:46   yeah bad job bad job establishing the [TS]

00:15:49   rules and First Circuit number five is [TS]

00:15:51   alive and Johnny Five and all the other [TS]

00:15:53   robots [TS]

00:15:54   yes Johnny 5 is important that any [TS]

00:15:56   faster by lightning [TS]

00:15:57   yeah Johnny five is alive didn't do a [TS]

00:15:59   good job of establishing this is what [TS]

00:16:01   about the big vat of group so the minor [TS]

00:16:03   the corporation can still use the flash [TS]

00:16:06   for their mining operations because it's [TS]

00:16:08   not conscious but only those three or [TS]

00:16:09   four people including the one who [TS]

00:16:11   replaces the kid's dad because you know [TS]

00:16:13   they become human 235 to the other side [TS]

00:16:17   first time machine radiation causes you [TS]

00:16:19   to become solid forever unless unless [TS]

00:16:21   you're Annalise you're a me also the the [TS]

00:16:24   the company will have to install some [TS]

00:16:28   lightning rods though at all and all [TS]

00:16:31   their factory don't have to install [TS]

00:16:33   lightning rods that's what they have to [TS]

00:16:34   move them out of the monasteries is [TS]

00:16:36   amazing to that the the the flesh [TS]

00:16:39   transmission technology can travel [TS]

00:16:41   through time and even to the the little [TS]

00:16:45   pocket universe that's outside of our [TS]

00:16:48   universe they're still able to remote [TS]

00:16:49   control Amy from there is some good [TS]

00:16:52   stuff amazing powerful there's a subtle [TS]

00:16:54   part i want to know everyone [TS]

00:16:56   red notices that when the flesh the [TS]

00:16:59   flesh doctor is sacrificing yourself and [TS]

00:17:02   the real sicko supposedly real doctor is [TS]

00:17:05   going back on the TARDIS he says you [TS]

00:17:07   know your molecules molecules what's the [TS]

00:17:09   phrase about your molecules might retain [TS]

00:17:10   the memory blah blah blah and I'm like [TS]

00:17:13   oh they're setting us up so the flesh [TS]

00:17:14   dr. reassembles himself later yeah of [TS]

00:17:17   course yeah for something to leave it [TS]

00:17:18   open well we need to know Rory's dies [TS]

00:17:20   the doctors duplicates yes we just need [TS]

00:17:24   another episode with more than 1 i'm [TS]

00:17:26   really sad that they didn't make a [TS]

00:17:27   duplicate Rory and kill him in this [TS]

00:17:29   episode [TS]

00:17:29   yeah me too you're gonna kill him in [TS]

00:17:33   every episode you know what killed him [TS]

00:17:34   in every episode is negative thing just [TS]

00:17:36   go whole hog [TS]

00:17:37   alright i will say for the finale Rory [TS]

00:17:40   gets a spine a little bit of one which [TS]

00:17:42   is nice to see [TS]

00:17:43   ok so let's let's take that transition [TS]

00:17:46   yes I thought forward the cold open of [TS]

00:17:50   that last episode was maybe my favorite [TS]

00:17:52   scene [TS]

00:17:53   it in the like entire I i think this [TS]

00:17:56   episode was my favorite episode in matt [TS]

00:17:58   smith's almost entire run pretty much [TS]

00:18:00   cheaper it's just a tied-up a lot of [TS]

00:18:03   stuff it had great action it had great [TS]

00:18:06   pacing the doctor you know like the [TS]

00:18:08   doctor has its ups and downs you know [TS]

00:18:12   stuffs revealed etcetera is a just it [TS]

00:18:14   felt very good felt fun [TS]

00:18:16   it didn't feel like some of the other [TS]

00:18:18   episodes were watching it felt like a [TS]

00:18:19   little bit of a chore it felt like a [TS]

00:18:21   little bit david tennant he didn't think [TS]

00:18:23   it did every happy with those were David [TS]

00:18:25   finds out that the worldview of him is [TS]

00:18:27   not what he likes and he's angry about [TS]

00:18:28   it or surprise but that's that's the [TS]

00:18:30   doctor right like in general but I can [TS]

00:18:32   have him doing that Smith had been more [TS]

00:18:34   of the I'm kind of wacky and trying to [TS]

00:18:36   figure out what it means to be human and [TS]

00:18:37   I'm uncomfortable with other people and [TS]

00:18:39   i'm in a comfortable social situation [TS]

00:18:41   like that's been matt smith vibe and [TS]

00:18:42   this switch to the more classic Doctor [TS]

00:18:45   vibe of like doctors reputation and what [TS]

00:18:47   it's like to be the last one and how his [TS]

00:18:49   powers can be used for good and evil you [TS]

00:18:51   know they already kind of set that up i [TS]

00:18:53   mean i felt like the Pigpen torque [TS]

00:18:54   episode set up the same thing right [TS]

00:18:56   which was everybody else building this [TS]

00:18:57   prison to to keep him in it because he [TS]

00:19:00   was the dangerous one yeah but he didn't [TS]

00:19:01   he didn't agree at that point did it [TS]

00:19:03   didn't affect him at that point he was [TS]

00:19:04   like no no you're crazy i'm not a [TS]

00:19:06   dangerous guy was in this one he starts [TS]

00:19:08   to see a little bit yeah well he [TS]

00:19:09   destroys like a whole bunch of Cybermen [TS]

00:19:11   like right off the top right that was a [TS]

00:19:13   little out of character for me honestly [TS]

00:19:15   yeah it was awesome note it was very [TS]

00:19:17   awesome but it was very cool but it made [TS]

00:19:20   me think well if he can destroy an [TS]

00:19:21   entire fleet of cyber bed which the [TS]

00:19:23   people who he's going to destroy are [TS]

00:19:26   afraid of [TS]

00:19:27   why does he need to pick up for other [TS]

00:19:29   people to help him because it's a ragtag [TS]

00:19:32   band of misfits this mechanism is the [TS]

00:19:34   developments you're quite picks up a [TS]

00:19:35   nurse it does i thought was also this [TS]

00:19:38   thing like you know he's just killed [TS]

00:19:40   legions upon the SRT 12 regenerate [TS]

00:19:42   all-star religion is just destroyed [TS]

00:19:44   pretty much all of it the rumor gets [TS]

00:19:45   around and he's approaching stuffily he [TS]

00:19:49   doesn't know where they're at and then [TS]

00:19:51   he gets there and they don't shed a drop [TS]

00:19:52   of blood that's what the the dinosaur [TS]

00:19:55   lady says and cash evidence and and the [TS]

00:20:00   whole point of him having a success [TS]

00:20:01   there's they didn't actually kill [TS]

00:20:02   anybody [TS]

00:20:03   other people kill other people but they [TS]

00:20:04   didn't kill anybody to take over [TS]

00:20:06   uh Devils run but even run several those [TS]

00:20:10   cyber humans right I'm sorry but but [TS]

00:20:11   particularly the Cybermen I guess [TS]

00:20:13   they're not quite as mobilize when the [TS]

00:20:14   saturday work the Cyberman words struck [TS]

00:20:16   by lightning or not actually a life but [TS]

00:20:19   I mean there's about cyber man killing [TS]

00:20:21   them is a blessing for them that elite [TS]

00:20:24   one tier when it comes to the doctor [TS]

00:20:28   though I mean I think there is a very [TS]

00:20:30   big shift between the mat smith of [TS]

00:20:32   earlier episodes which is matt smith [TS]

00:20:34   basically realizes that one of his [TS]

00:20:36   companions one of his you no pets has [TS]

00:20:38   basically been taken away from him and [TS]

00:20:40   God you know god help everybody in their [TS]

00:20:43   path when the doctor goes on the warpath [TS]

00:20:45   because someone has basically messed [TS]

00:20:46   with his humans [TS]

00:20:48   well i think the the theme that Steven [TS]

00:20:50   Moffat has been building up to for his [TS]

00:20:53   whole run and certainly this year is [TS]

00:20:55   encapsulated in those moments where he [TS]

00:20:59   discovers first off there's a funny line [TS]

00:21:01   where he talks about how the word dr. [TS]

00:21:03   our word doctor is from him at meaning [TS]

00:21:07   what it means which is something Steven [TS]

00:21:09   Moffat there's a there's a link that the [TS]

00:21:11   animation great link to him posting on [TS]

00:21:13   records Doctor Who in 1995 with that [TS]

00:21:15   concept and he finally recycled into an [TS]

00:21:17   actual doctor who episode but the the [TS]

00:21:20   fact that the people of the gamma forest [TS]

00:21:22   the word dr. means warrior that that's [TS]

00:21:26   what Steven Moffat i think has been [TS]

00:21:27   leading up to and and his whole thrust [TS]

00:21:30   with this is almost taking the russell [TS]

00:21:33   davis approach to to the doctor as this [TS]

00:21:37   warrior and the oncoming storm and the [TS]

00:21:39   person that everybody and across the [TS]

00:21:41   universe fears and confronting it and [TS]

00:21:43   saying is this what the doctor would [TS]

00:21:46   want to be does he want to be known as a [TS]

00:21:48   great warrior because the answer is no [TS]

00:21:51   but that's sort of what he's become so I [TS]

00:21:52   think in one way this is all about kind [TS]

00:21:55   of questioning the final proof [TS]

00:21:56   fundamental premise of what the show's [TS]

00:21:58   become because I suspect where he's [TS]

00:22:01   trying to take this is a place where the [TS]

00:22:04   doctor isn't isn't like that anymore and [TS]

00:22:07   he's more vulnerable and he's back to [TS]

00:22:09   being more of a a wanderer rather than [TS]

00:22:11   this guy who can summon armies with the [TS]

00:22:14   snap of his fingers you should go back [TS]

00:22:16   to being a longer after all his [TS]

00:22:17   companions died tragically [TS]

00:22:19   beyond that you already have a life [TS]

00:22:22   tragically speaking of the oncoming [TS]

00:22:24   storm thing that Jason mentioned where [TS]

00:22:26   you know that did the the doctor is a [TS]

00:22:28   big force and the you know you talk [TS]

00:22:30   about taking one of my pet / loved ones [TS]

00:22:32   things that run mentioned well I recall [TS]

00:22:34   an earlier podcast about Doctor Who [TS]

00:22:36   about this very seasoned someone assured [TS]

00:22:39   me that the early episode with doctor [TS]

00:22:42   who with with the doctor and Rory was [TS]

00:22:44   trying to settle once and for all that [TS]

00:22:46   Rory and Amy are together in the doctor [TS]

00:22:49   is not a threat and yet here we are in [TS]

00:22:51   the very last episode before break and [TS]

00:22:53   what do they do say merci entire scene [TS]

00:22:55   with it with a long drawn-out attempted [TS]

00:22:58   miss direction which is so feeble [TS]

00:22:59   because at this point you always know [TS]

00:23:01   anytime they're going in that direction [TS]

00:23:02   it's a fake out of saying oh you know [TS]

00:23:05   the person I'm is coming for me is very [TS]

00:23:07   old but he looks young and you can't [TS]

00:23:09   stop a man blonde it totally sounds like [TS]

00:23:11   the doctor but it's not stupid Rory [TS]

00:23:13   again now but he's a badass in this [TS]

00:23:15   episode and that's great he finally gets [TS]

00:23:17   a chance to me saying i was i was made [TS]

00:23:20   promises and look what happened [TS]

00:23:22   I liked that setup you know what I I [TS]

00:23:24   will speaking i do too because we knew [TS]

00:23:26   it was a faint when they do it now we [TS]

00:23:28   know they're being ridiculous oh that's [TS]

00:23:30   the excuse now you said there were not [TS]

00:23:31   do this anymore they're putting issue to [TS]

00:23:33   bed they wouldn't keep bringing it up [TS]

00:23:34   because it was so great laughs I don't [TS]

00:23:36   think about that gets in terms of him [TS]

00:23:38   being arrival for her affections at all [TS]

00:23:40   because we see the fact that she is like [TS]

00:23:42   there is no question of it it's just the [TS]

00:23:44   fact that she's a funk it's gonna be [TS]

00:23:46   aware of my child and that's supposed to [TS]

00:23:48   be a mr. ax100 was I don't think it was [TS]

00:23:50   actually think it's I think I playing [TS]

00:23:52   with the notion they've done so much of [TS]

00:23:54   this we know he's not a rival for the [TS]

00:23:55   affections we know something's going on [TS]

00:23:57   and were like why is she saying these [TS]

00:23:58   things because this can't be right and [TS]

00:24:00   set this crazy look for me there is this [TS]

00:24:02   cognitive dissonance intention which has [TS]

00:24:04   been relieved when you're like all of [TS]

00:24:05   course I should have seen that because [TS]

00:24:07   if we actually listen to what she was [TS]

00:24:08   saying we know she didn't the doctor [TS]

00:24:10   when they brought the father of my child [TS]

00:24:12   thing I think it was going back to the [TS]

00:24:14   whole notion that you know all that the [TS]

00:24:16   doctor must be the father I knew it all [TS]

00:24:18   along because they stay a series of [TS]

00:24:19   things that you can dismiss but then [TS]

00:24:20   they say the father of my child like how [TS]

00:24:22   can I be the doctor we must be the dot [TS]

00:24:23   i'm going to disagree with you because I [TS]

00:24:25   think you're supposed to know that we're [TS]

00:24:26   also see loyal fans and get the [TS]

00:24:27   thanksgiving but but i will tell you i [TS]

00:24:29   don't think there's any doctor episode [TS]

00:24:30   in which I liked [TS]

00:24:32   the lot the line i have a statement and [TS]

00:24:34   a question and it was just like out that [TS]

00:24:36   was badass do i need and heat the [TS]

00:24:39   question haha yeah we'll just look I [TS]

00:24:44   said that like you know like i cannot i [TS]

00:24:46   said in an earlier pi guess what is that [TS]

00:24:48   i really i really like Rory and I really [TS]

00:24:51   wanted him to get a chance to develop [TS]

00:24:52   and have him stop dying in 35 minutes [TS]

00:24:55   and I feel like they finally gave him an [TS]

00:24:57   opportunity they gave me something to do [TS]

00:24:58   and he gets to be like the Centurion and [TS]

00:25:00   gets to kick some ass and you know take [TS]

00:25:03   some names and i think and still gets to [TS]

00:25:05   be like there's something very secure [TS]

00:25:07   about him anymore in this episode than [TS]

00:25:09   any of the prior ones and I do think [TS]

00:25:10   it's because they dismiss that question [TS]

00:25:12   of the idea of the love triangle like [TS]

00:25:14   you see them as a family and you see [TS]

00:25:16   that the doctor has affection for all of [TS]

00:25:18   them as a family unit and that he's [TS]

00:25:21   losing ourselves a doctor to stop [TS]

00:25:22   hugging her [TS]

00:25:23   I'm telling you like maybe you guys [TS]

00:25:24   don't want to see it but it's there [TS]

00:25:25   actually a bit like there's jealousy [TS]

00:25:27   there and and let's let's not forget [TS]

00:25:29   that at the end of this episode he [TS]

00:25:31   discovers that not only is he have is a [TS]

00:25:34   jealous of the doctor because Amy's [TS]

00:25:36   interested in the doctor but he's also [TS]

00:25:37   now his daughter and the doctor have a [TS]

00:25:41   relationship i want to see how that [TS]

00:25:42   plays out so there's a queue go pick [TS]

00:25:44   inducing very funny and we read it with [TS]

00:25:47   John to a point but i think they are [TS]

00:25:48   playing with it now because the funny [TS]

00:25:50   thing about that scene where he hugs her [TS]

00:25:51   is that the doctor asked for permission [TS]

00:25:54   and then and then races that's enough [TS]

00:25:57   and the doctors like very well like [TS]

00:25:58   they've got some rules about it and [TS]

00:26:00   Rory's in charge and Rory gets to say [TS]

00:26:02   I'm no longer comfortable and and they [TS]

00:26:04   kind of its kind of playful and I like [TS]

00:26:06   that because if it had just been the way [TS]

00:26:09   it was that would be tiresome but I feel [TS]

00:26:12   like they're they're actually you get [TS]

00:26:14   the sense that they've they figured it [TS]

00:26:15   all out and now it's more of a joke it [TS]

00:26:18   was always Rory's insecurity wasn't like [TS]

00:26:20   the doctor they never made it seem like [TS]

00:26:21   dr. had any feelings for her really not [TS]

00:26:23   keep the doctor never expressed that was [TS]

00:26:25   just kind of deciding was always Rory's [TS]

00:26:26   insecurity with the situation and the [TS]

00:26:28   fact that is insecurity still seems to [TS]

00:26:29   exist even at this point even after the [TS]

00:26:31   episode where he was a badass [TS]

00:26:33   it's aight i just think i would like to [TS]

00:26:35   leave that backhand badasses can have [TS]

00:26:38   insecurities I think that yeah that's [TS]

00:26:39   what I feel like it's one line balanced [TS]

00:26:41   against all of his badassery he's not [TS]

00:26:43   the doctor right as badass as he is he's [TS]

00:26:46   never going to be the doctor and I think [TS]

00:26:47   that's always there but at the same time [TS]

00:26:49   you know we moved on enough that we have [TS]

00:26:51   we can have fun with it and we can have [TS]

00:26:53   funny lines like when they ask about it [TS]

00:26:57   when the baby was conceived and the [TS]

00:26:59   doctor has to say it's human [TS]

00:27:01   it's basically it's gross human stuff I [TS]

00:27:03   don't want to think about it that you [TS]

00:27:05   know i'm at are not human [TS]

00:27:07   I don't want to know what they're doing [TS]

00:27:09   in there I what I don't ask they don't [TS]

00:27:11   put up a balloon is anything i don't ask [TS]

00:27:13   i want to get past relationship stuff [TS]

00:27:15   and say like you know this [TS]

00:27:17   we've had a long talk about some [TS]

00:27:19   characters because we've had so much was [TS]

00:27:20   blown open one of the great things about [TS]

00:27:22   this episode that we should talk about [TS]

00:27:23   is all of these rich characters that get [TS]

00:27:26   thrown into the plot who have never seen [TS]

00:27:28   before and yet appear to have been [TS]

00:27:30   poured right out of some parallel [TS]

00:27:33   universe where they're all in their own [TS]

00:27:35   TV shows [TS]

00:27:36   well i mean i think one that's one of [TS]

00:27:37   the great devices in this episode is [TS]

00:27:38   that idea that that the doctor has all [TS]

00:27:41   these like these debts basically like [TS]

00:27:44   because you see him always get involved [TS]

00:27:45   in these situations to the point where [TS]

00:27:47   you know like help somebody out and they [TS]

00:27:49   decide they're going to change or [TS]

00:27:50   whatever and you then you know we walk [TS]

00:27:51   away from those guys a lot of times but [TS]

00:27:53   i love the idea of course he's been [TS]

00:27:54   around 900 years right he's got a lot of [TS]

00:27:56   favors he can call in and I appreciated [TS]

00:27:58   that it's they're not all characters [TS]

00:28:00   that we've seen in the last two seasons [TS]

00:28:01   to where it's like if it would be very [TS]

00:28:04   easy to just let you know call back to [TS]

00:28:07   all of the hijinks and adventures that [TS]

00:28:09   we've had since Steven Moffat took over [TS]

00:28:11   the show but instead they go without the [TS]

00:28:12   end of time [TS]

00:28:13   yeah push the but now I appreciate that [TS]

00:28:17   there's they build a wider world and [TS]

00:28:19   these characters who we really don't see [TS]

00:28:21   all that much of get very quickly [TS]

00:28:23   fleshed out and detailed and you know [TS]

00:28:26   exactly like the the slurry and her maid [TS]

00:28:29   like you know exactly what's going on [TS]

00:28:31   there [TS]

00:28:31   let's let's let's say it right lesbian [TS]

00:28:33   silurian victorian lesbian slurry and [TS]

00:28:38   Victorian is that we decided yes that's [TS]

00:28:40   what Jason just said apparently they've [TS]

00:28:42   been clamouring three a spin-off series [TS]

00:28:44   and they solve crimes and the way they [TS]

00:28:47   did at the vision that the the [TS]

00:28:49   expansiveness the show can have where [TS]

00:28:51   they cut from outer space in the future [TS]

00:28:53   to Victorian London and a horse-drawn [TS]

00:28:55   carriage in the fog and a hooded figure [TS]

00:28:58   gets out [TS]

00:28:59   and what we discover she's a Silurian [TS]

00:29:01   she just ate Jack the Ripper I mean and [TS]

00:29:04   the TARDIS is here to pick her up and [TS]

00:29:06   and off you go and it's just such a [TS]

00:29:09   great and then throughout the episode [TS]

00:29:10   the interplay that those two characters [TS]

00:29:11   have any interaction with the other [TS]

00:29:13   characters like just you know rate along [TS]

00:29:16   with some nice little naughty references [TS]

00:29:19   like what you know that involving her [TS]

00:29:21   tom [TS]

00:29:22   I want a letter is called commander [TS]

00:29:24   strikes RN like that's like the only [TS]

00:29:29   would answer that use of the Sun Terrans [TS]

00:29:31   ever liked the fact that the guy they [TS]

00:29:34   get to play him as the guy who plays [TS]

00:29:36   pretty much every sun tired in the last [TS]

00:29:38   two have two have two guys ladies [TS]

00:29:40   interest they all look very similar down [TS]

00:29:42   that they're clones right so yeah right [TS]

00:29:44   right at the blue guy was pretty good [TS]

00:29:46   too i love that he's a nurse because [TS]

00:29:47   that the great I i love the dynamic with [TS]

00:29:50   him when you first get we introduce your [TS]

00:29:51   money goes into that tent like he's [TS]

00:29:53   trying to help the kid or whatever and [TS]

00:29:55   you know it's strange sort of bedside [TS]

00:29:57   manner but it somehow reassuring a [TS]

00:29:59   surround sound home in the morning don't [TS]

00:30:00   do too much exertion right now and then [TS]

00:30:02   perhaps when you really want / I will [TS]

00:30:04   kill you on the field of battle [TS]

00:30:06   he's very dedicated to his punishment [TS]

00:30:08   because at the end you know he's like I [TS]

00:30:10   was only a nurse and use dr. Rorie of [TS]

00:30:12   course was very nervous LOL i need eyes [TS]

00:30:14   and he says I i I've long look forward [TS]

00:30:16   to dying on the battlefield it's not as [TS]

00:30:18   good as I thought it would be [TS]

00:30:20   he was also rated nurse that baby to [TS]

00:30:21   dispense the blue guy we all love dorium [TS]

00:30:24   aldo are already appeared in an earlier [TS]

00:30:26   episode right he did he's a city green [TS]

00:30:28   street is a city greens yes and and [TS]

00:30:30   river bought a bottle outside the time [TS]

00:30:33   more than the vortex manipulator that's [TS]

00:30:35   right [TS]

00:30:36   fresh off the wrist of a time when I'm [TS]

00:30:39   com agents timing i made i said cap the [TS]

00:30:42   rest [TS]

00:30:44   yea though they were they were that he [TS]

00:30:46   says that he's a funny character who [TS]

00:30:47   sadly appears to have been beheaded by [TS]

00:30:49   the headless like I'm old I'm fat I'm [TS]

00:30:51   blue and I'm Michael to those things [TS]

00:30:53   described the targets are they being [TS]

00:30:54   funny huh something I have to wide blue [TS]

00:30:58   things that great pick something [TS]

00:30:59   borrowed something blue [TS]

00:31:01   another might have been a call back I [TS]

00:31:02   should throw out Lauren bucket to who is [TS]

00:31:04   not one of the people that he picks up [TS]

00:31:06   and yet is a character who is definitely [TS]

00:31:08   got that history with a doctor she sees [TS]

00:31:10   him as a child and basically is pursuing [TS]

00:31:13   him so that she can you know see him [TS]

00:31:16   again which she doesn't then promptly [TS]

00:31:18   dies [TS]

00:31:19   well how did how did the clerics go from [TS]

00:31:21   being good guys too bad guys from last [TS]

00:31:22   season and this season I don't know if [TS]

00:31:24   there ever were good guys I'm not sure [TS]

00:31:27   if they were they do remember they took [TS]

00:31:28   her out and they were sort of river was [TS]

00:31:30   sort of their prisoner but also keep in [TS]

00:31:32   mind what we may be seeing them in the [TS]

00:31:34   wrong order just like we're seeing river [TS]

00:31:36   in the wrong that's in the line he said [TS]

00:31:38   he said he said we're here to we're here [TS]

00:31:40   to something and not putting that don't [TS]

00:31:42   praise and we're here to capture was a [TS]

00:31:43   line or fight him or something [TS]

00:31:46   they said praising cost a lot more like [TS]

00:31:48   other mercenaries and we don't know what [TS]

00:31:50   Madame Kovarian also known as the baby i [TS]

00:31:53   patch the app that is what she wants and [TS]

00:31:57   who she's working for if she is working [TS]

00:31:59   for somebody that's a complete mystery [TS]

00:32:02   she's just sort of there to get the idea [TS]

00:32:03   that you're there isn't then we get the [TS]

00:32:05   idea that you know it's basically all of [TS]

00:32:07   his enemies and they went to three other [TS]

00:32:09   time lord [TS]

00:32:10   yeah I guess as a weapon she was just [TS]

00:32:13   like big military industrial complex [TS]

00:32:14   woman if I had my own Time Lord as a [TS]

00:32:16   weapon think of what I could do right [TS]

00:32:18   now I got the impression that it was [TS]

00:32:19   actually like sort of a like everybody [TS]

00:32:21   who the doctor and pissed off was like [TS]

00:32:23   we're scared of him so we need something [TS]

00:32:24   to band together and combating with [TS]

00:32:26   wouldn't it be great if we had our own [TS]

00:32:27   Time Lord we could lock them up in a box [TS]

00:32:29   so instead we're going to build our own [TS]

00:32:31   I do applaud them for not bringing out [TS]

00:32:33   with alex at all DIY time lord she's [TS]

00:32:36   she's an agent of the acid corporation [TS]

00:32:39   haha oh I feel certain way to study a [TS]

00:32:43   period see period I period d period we [TS]

00:32:45   don't know what is there are expected [TS]

00:32:48   sir [TS]

00:32:48   yeah artist he destroyed their profit [TS]

00:32:51   margins when he took away the flesh [TS]

00:32:52   right stock tanked they want to have [TS]

00:32:55   leftover flesh and they use that for me [TS]

00:32:57   and the baby now how how about a [TS]

00:32:59   chilling scene in a in a bombing family [TS]

00:33:02   TV show where the baby melts you have [TS]

00:33:05   that was pretty freaky and although [TS]

00:33:07   beautifully i really liked that we [TS]

00:33:09   suddenly are seeing the world from the [TS]

00:33:11   babies perspective as the as the [TS]

00:33:13   eyepatch lady appears over Amy shoulder [TS]

00:33:15   and you can actually see the baby [TS]

00:33:17   looking at the eyepatch lady I thought [TS]

00:33:19   that was really well done that that that [TS]

00:33:22   they did that just as we've seen it with [TS]

00:33:24   Amy before the baby melts into a pile of [TS]

00:33:27   goop [TS]

00:33:27   I think I wasn't paying I was so engaged [TS]

00:33:29   i did not think about it and didn't [TS]

00:33:30   really see it coming and there was [TS]

00:33:31   definitely a jaw-dropping moment where I [TS]

00:33:33   was like oh that's not yet just because [TS]

00:33:36   the eyepatch lady says wakey wakey [TS]

00:33:39   basically to the baby and then the baby [TS]

00:33:41   turns into go [TS]

00:33:42   so there are obviously unplug the baby [TS]

00:33:44   it's great strategy when you accomplish [TS]

00:33:45   a remarkable military victory like the [TS]

00:33:48   Battle of Agincourt without spilling of [TS]

00:33:49   your own blood and so forth and then [TS]

00:33:51   you're like okay off you go then we [TS]

00:33:52   don't need here for your interview [TS]

00:33:53   interview to find out what's going on [TS]

00:33:54   you just go off on your way with [TS]

00:33:56   whatever you happen to have with you and [TS]

00:33:58   we'll just stay here with the base to [TS]

00:33:59   the base and examine thanks i don't know [TS]

00:34:01   what let's get out right away I don't [TS]

00:34:04   know who you are but Colonel run away go [TS]

00:34:06   away i love that you reminded me of the [TS]

00:34:08   the princess bride but that's a little [TS]

00:34:10   bit at the apt that that's also the [TS]

00:34:12   doctor losing it for like oh yeah most I [TS]

00:34:15   think we've ever seen him completely [TS]

00:34:17   lose it at that moment that he's he's [TS]

00:34:20   hit way says who [TS]

00:34:22   this is anger if that he's we get me not [TS]

00:34:26   just a predictive too right yeah you [TS]

00:34:28   know and that's I think that's the point [TS]

00:34:30   right that's the side of him that [TS]

00:34:31   everybody else is seeing ya that they [TS]

00:34:33   need to be afraid of because it you [TS]

00:34:35   could imagine him very easily losing his [TS]

00:34:37   grip right you know if for example [TS]

00:34:39   something happened to Amy and Rory and [TS]

00:34:41   he was left on his own like you wouldn't [TS]

00:34:42   have a tempering influence and we just [TS]

00:34:44   kind of a force so so so River Song [TS]

00:34:50   uh but I I'll first point out that in [TS]

00:34:53   our first flash podcast Glenn set my [TS]

00:34:56   thinking is river song is amy pond's [TS]

00:34:58   child and that somehow she got crossed [TS]

00:35:01   in the timestream there so that she has [TS]

00:35:02   Time Lord regeneration powers message [TS]

00:35:04   was a silence which top that she's I'm [TS]

00:35:06   head right that's what I meant [TS]

00:35:08   when he says she sort of likes or [TS]

00:35:10   absorbed that fetuses absorb the energy [TS]

00:35:12   the time vortex right artists Bravo [TS]

00:35:15   Glenn fleischmann well spotted [TS]

00:35:18   but you know what i thought was really [TS]

00:35:20   interesting is as we're about to get [TS]

00:35:22   these revelations there's that moment [TS]

00:35:25   where she says you know the baby was [TS]

00:35:28   made as a weapon against to kill the [TS]

00:35:31   doctor or against the doctor and I'm [TS]

00:35:33   sitting there thinking well you know you [TS]

00:35:36   were in storm cage for having killed [TS]

00:35:38   somebody and we saw the doctor get [TS]

00:35:41   killed by a being a masked figure in the [TS]

00:35:43   first episode and I'm a spacesuit it was [TS]

00:35:46   a small yeah who is all trying hard time [TS]

00:35:48   lower and I think about and you put [TS]

00:35:50   those together and it's like well you [TS]

00:35:51   know just because we know river and we [TS]

00:35:53   like her and we've seen the who the baby [TS]

00:35:55   is and all of that doesn't mean they [TS]

00:35:56   don't succeed right in fact maybe they [TS]

00:35:58   do succeed she does she says in the [TS]

00:36:00   earlier season right I killed the best [TS]

00:36:02   man I know right I know this whole thing [TS]

00:36:04   was telegraph from the start and I'm [TS]

00:36:05   kind of disappointed that it connected [TS]

00:36:07   in such a straightforward way because i [TS]

00:36:08   was really mind and into season although [TS]

00:36:11   it's too confusing you don't like if [TS]

00:36:13   it's too straightforward not too [TS]

00:36:15   confusing a simple logical like like [TS]

00:36:17   like you said when she says I killed the [TS]

00:36:18   best man ever know we all know like the [TS]

00:36:20   the suggestion the text there is she's [TS]

00:36:23   hinting that she killed the doctor right [TS]

00:36:24   and then we see you're all kill kill you [TS]

00:36:26   know him to begin the season like wow [TS]

00:36:27   that must've been river and then we see [TS]

00:36:29   a baby and then the baby is a girl and [TS]

00:36:30   his name melody I mean it's just it's [TS]

00:36:32   just dot you know not that I'm it's not [TS]

00:36:34   bad that it was a straight line but it [TS]

00:36:35   was definitely a straight line [TS]

00:36:37   I don't think it's a straight line i [TS]

00:36:38   think i think this is actually his game [TS]

00:36:39   is that we've seen what we think is the [TS]

00:36:41   straight line but that the resolution of [TS]

00:36:43   that whole what happened on the beach [TS]

00:36:44   thing is going to be a twist of some [TS]

00:36:47   kind of you think it's still turn around [TS]

00:36:49   i guess but the fact that the baby was [TS]

00:36:51   river was was pretty well telegraphing [TS]

00:36:53   that turned out to be the case we'll see [TS]

00:36:55   if at the end they do the misdirection [TS]

00:36:56   like oh that wasn't really river you [TS]

00:36:58   know I enjoy I enjoy the fact that that [TS]

00:37:00   because by you know this year's pride [TS]

00:37:01   part-time Lord explains how she kept [TS]

00:37:04   walking out of prison basically it's [TS]

00:37:05   because what I mean like imagine if you [TS]

00:37:08   lock the doctor upright like it wouldn't [TS]

00:37:09   really take you would keep finding a way [TS]

00:37:12   out and so it's explained like well who [TS]

00:37:13   is she why is she so good it like just [TS]

00:37:15   breaking out of prison and you know so [TS]

00:37:17   cavalier about it one of my pet theories [TS]

00:37:18   is that she's in prison for killing the [TS]

00:37:20   doctor now [TS]

00:37:21   because she actually killed him but [TS]

00:37:23   because he's lying low and she's [TS]

00:37:26   basically he's she's complicit in him [TS]

00:37:28   faking his death right and if that's the [TS]

00:37:29   case you know she's serving time and yet [TS]

00:37:32   she's also just sort of serving time [TS]

00:37:33   when it when she feels like if it's [TS]

00:37:35   which is that mean she's there she's [TS]

00:37:37   there voluntary outright and that says [TS]

00:37:38   something about her as well [TS]

00:37:40   yeah she could have just been breaking [TS]

00:37:41   out never gone back right whatever it [TS]

00:37:43   does she really regrets it she said to [TS]

00:37:45   regret--getting that she feels bad for [TS]

00:37:47   whatever it is so even if it didn't like [TS]

00:37:49   it turned out to be okay in the end I [TS]

00:37:51   don't think she knows that yet I think [TS]

00:37:52   she really did something bad and she [TS]

00:37:54   regrets it [TS]

00:37:55   we were seeing her timeline whether we [TS]

00:37:58   feel she needs to be punished her she [TS]

00:37:59   feels she needs to be seen as being [TS]

00:38:01   punished she does she can get out of [TS]

00:38:03   prison and she doesn't and I think those [TS]

00:38:05   are all [TS]

00:38:06   yeah I think John's right you know [TS]

00:38:07   there's a there's a plan and and and [TS]

00:38:10   he's gonna fill in all the boxes and [TS]

00:38:11   they may be boxes that we figure out how [TS]

00:38:13   already how he's gonna fill them in but [TS]

00:38:15   in the end will know why that is the way [TS]

00:38:18   the way she is alright but here's my [TS]

00:38:21   complaint about it though is like the [TS]

00:38:22   river song think I'm like I'm actually I [TS]

00:38:24   haven't looked on the web yet because i [TS]

00:38:26   know this exists we talked about in [TS]

00:38:27   previous podcast but I am totally sick [TS]

00:38:30   of this I'm his future [TS]

00:38:32   he's my past it's like no you're not [TS]

00:38:34   you're good you know the river song [TS]

00:38:35   knows both too many things from the [TS]

00:38:37   future and the past she has a book that [TS]

00:38:40   apparently has everything in it even [TS]

00:38:41   though she's only looking at a point no [TS]

00:38:43   I don't think it has everything in it i [TS]

00:38:45   think that what does it time she flips [TS]

00:38:47   way through it because she doesn't know [TS]

00:38:48   where she is in her own era there yet [TS]

00:38:50   they're out of sync with each other but [TS]

00:38:52   she is not his future yet so ridiculous [TS]

00:38:54   so I i agree with you i think i think [TS]

00:38:56   there's a simplification going on which [TS]

00:38:58   is that every time she sees him it's [TS]

00:39:00   later which is definitely not true [TS]

00:39:01   because the first time we meet him meet [TS]

00:39:03   her she says how he picked her up and [TS]

00:39:06   gave her the super snazzy Scott sonic [TS]

00:39:08   screwdriver and knew that it was her [TS]

00:39:09   last night so obviously i don't meet [TS]

00:39:11   entirely in sync backward for me also [TS]

00:39:14   obviously when she's a child he has to [TS]

00:39:16   meet her when she's a child in some [TS]

00:39:18   sequential set of order in order to make [TS]

00:39:20   sense in her temporal no causal Nexus [TS]

00:39:23   thank you i think there's a [TS]

00:39:24   simplification happening here [TS]

00:39:26   as for her and the book III just don't [TS]

00:39:28   think that's right i think that when we [TS]

00:39:30   meet her the last time she can flip [TS]

00:39:31   through the whole book because it she's [TS]

00:39:32   about to die and at the end of the story [TS]

00:39:34   but well I guess what [TS]

00:39:35   she keeps she's always when they sit [TS]

00:39:36   down in the in the diner like we have [TS]

00:39:38   you met the was Eddie the fish yet or [TS]

00:39:40   whatever and he goes and you know [TS]

00:39:42   they're checking knows that he has a [TS]

00:39:44   book where did he get his mouth that's [TS]

00:39:45   why don't I I don't think it's intended [TS]

00:39:47   to be that way I think you're getting [TS]

00:39:48   too hard too hung up on that mean yeah [TS]

00:39:50   it's all it is complex but I think I [TS]

00:39:52   mean the general idea holds is that [TS]

00:39:54   there's they're out of sync and that [TS]

00:39:55   she's seen things that that he hasn't [TS]

00:39:57   seen I just said we don't live our lives [TS]

00:39:58   in order [TS]

00:39:59   we're never sure when we're gonna see [TS]

00:40:00   each other next and so we use the book [TS]

00:40:03   but I think attended in tendencies I [TS]

00:40:05   think she does tend to see stuff you [TS]

00:40:06   know like she's experienced stuff that [TS]

00:40:08   he has not yet right there's a general [TS]

00:40:10   tendency that they meet they made [TS]

00:40:12   opposite but there are things that [TS]

00:40:14   happen out of order which is why she's [TS]

00:40:16   so confused when she's david tennant was [TS]

00:40:17   like alright we know which one of you [TS]

00:40:19   and and so I you know I think it's it's [TS]

00:40:23   I think honestly to simplify it for the [TS]

00:40:25   viewers they've said basically generally [TS]

00:40:27   they meet back-to-front but that's not [TS]

00:40:29   entirely don't think about that one so [TS]

00:40:32   much knowledge special knowledge Lena [TS]

00:40:33   yeah they well yes that's that's [TS]

00:40:36   something that only happens in the [TS]

00:40:37   target so so also one of the things [TS]

00:40:39   interesting about about this whole time [TS]

00:40:41   head thing where she was conceived in [TS]

00:40:42   the TARDIS and so somehow she's got a [TS]

00:40:45   human DNA but she's been exposed to the [TS]

00:40:47   that the time vortex what I think it [TS]

00:40:49   from a totally kind of continuity geek [TS]

00:40:52   standpoint what I think is interesting [TS]

00:40:53   is this means that they can have alex [TS]

00:40:55   kingston be river song for a while and [TS]

00:40:58   then they can have a completely other [TS]

00:40:59   actress play river song at some [TS]

00:41:01   presumably if she is really the girl who [TS]

00:41:03   is regenerating some other actors play [TS]

00:41:05   her at an earlier point and and and [TS]

00:41:08   actually play that story back as far [TS]

00:41:10   back as they want to go rather than what [TS]

00:41:12   I thought was the case which is they [TS]

00:41:14   would have to resolve it quickly because [TS]

00:41:15   alex kingston ages a year for every year [TS]

00:41:18   but now they want to get have they could [TS]

00:41:20   have an actress play river song at [TS]

00:41:22   seventeen leaving Amy and Rory's house [TS]

00:41:24   and going into the TARDIS for adventures [TS]

00:41:26   and they could just do that and say well [TS]

00:41:28   she regenerates later so I you know I [TS]

00:41:31   guess I guess that's where they're going [TS]

00:41:33   with it [TS]

00:41:33   related issue is that i was rewatching [TS]

00:41:35   the the silence of the library the [TS]

00:41:37   second part of the second part of the [TS]

00:41:39   two and what's that [TS]

00:41:41   of course that yet and i was watching [TS]

00:41:42   the I want to go back and see what she [TS]

00:41:45   said specifically where we know it [TS]

00:41:46   review the thing where the [TS]

00:41:48   where david tennant doctor says you know [TS]

00:41:49   my name I would never tell my name is [TS]

00:41:51   anybody and she's like I'm sorry I'm so [TS]

00:41:53   sorry [TS]

00:41:54   and then she does the selfless thing [TS]

00:41:55   with the doctor always does having [TS]

00:41:56   locked him up with handcuffs because she [TS]

00:41:58   always carries handcuffs and I realized [TS]

00:42:01   is watching it [TS]

00:42:01   she's her consciousness is put into the [TS]

00:42:03   computer but there's no necessity that's [TS]

00:42:06   a one-way strip either so at some level [TS]

00:42:07   there's a potential that you can go back [TS]

00:42:09   to the library and download [TS]

00:42:10   consciousness to do something there as [TS]

00:42:12   well guess what yeah we'll meet up and [TS]

00:42:13   we'll meet up with the flesh doctor I'm [TS]

00:42:15   exactly although you go and Moffat says [TS]

00:42:17   that his intense that is the day she [TS]

00:42:19   dies and she just get started on in the [TS]

00:42:21   afterlife of the of the computer there [TS]

00:42:23   is a nice scene in in there where she's [TS]

00:42:25   where she's tied herself in and he's [TS]

00:42:27   handcuffed where where she basically [TS]

00:42:31   says this we kill even you you wouldn't [TS]

00:42:33   regenerate and that takes on a little [TS]

00:42:37   extra meaning now because you can read [TS]

00:42:39   this that means she won't either [TS]

00:42:40   I like that episode also contains creepy [TS]

00:42:43   people walking around in space [TS]

00:42:44   yeah it's all the office because we [TS]

00:42:46   people in spacesuits and Steven Moffat [TS]

00:42:48   show that we could see if we're lucky [TS]

00:42:49   that was foreshadowing that he thought [TS]

00:42:50   about it that far ahead time but [TS]

00:42:52   probably travel yeah probably just [TS]

00:42:53   stealing from himself [TS]

00:42:54   ok he does that he's a John Cougar [TS]

00:42:56   Mellencamp of doctor who episodes wow [TS]

00:42:59   haha i'm a good-faith breaks the the bit [TS]

00:43:04   where he says as soon as he realizes the [TS]

00:43:06   baby's gone [TS]

00:43:07   he says to the silurian Madame vastra he [TS]

00:43:13   says to support what you're gonna do and [TS]

00:43:14   he said it's too late you know it [TS]

00:43:16   already happened and I'm thinking how do [TS]

00:43:18   you know it's already happened he'd [TS]

00:43:19   already put some piece the puzzle [TS]

00:43:21   together because you remember seeing [TS]

00:43:22   he's thinking about seeing her with the [TS]

00:43:24   silence and all that so he knows there's [TS]

00:43:26   a sequence of time from there until the [TS]

00:43:29   silence get her without you know she's [TS]

00:43:31   eight years old that that is the I think [TS]

00:43:33   he figured it all out at that point he [TS]

00:43:34   realizes the girl was you know in it was [TS]

00:43:38   with the silence was her and he knows [TS]

00:43:40   that if he's going to save her [TS]

00:43:42   it's not going to be when she's a baby [TS]

00:43:44   it's going to be later because they had [TS]

00:43:46   her earlier I think that he sort of [TS]

00:43:49   figured that out that we will see him at [TS]

00:43:51   a later point which I think it's kind of [TS]

00:43:54   cool that you know that that's a [TS]

00:43:56   a little bit of a credit to the to the [TS]

00:43:59   viewer that the doctors like yeah I get [TS]

00:44:00   it [TS]

00:44:01   I'm gonna go off and we're supposed to [TS]

00:44:02   sort of be like oh yeah well I get it [TS]

00:44:04   now [TS]

00:44:05   that was her and well let's remember [TS]

00:44:07   that flesh Amy told the doctor the real [TS]

00:44:09   doctor that he was gonna die and at the [TS]

00:44:12   end of the two parties thinking that she [TS]

00:44:14   was talking about imagine that he and [TS]

00:44:15   that he invited him so he knows when and [TS]

00:44:18   exactly where it happened yes [TS]

00:44:21   so that's through the flesh doctor dies [TS]

00:44:23   of course that's the flesh doctor who [TS]

00:44:25   gets killed at the end of the maybe when [TS]

00:44:27   you're in a white group then and not [TS]

00:44:29   been burned [TS]

00:44:30   no because she's been hardest so you [TS]

00:44:32   just always been the time i just select [TS]

00:44:33   this molecule don't know there's a plot [TS]

00:44:36   point i don't know but i wouldn't /a me [TS]

00:44:38   a fixture molecules i'm calling it [TS]

00:44:41   yes oh you know you know I'm kind of [TS]

00:44:43   cringing speaking of actually trying to [TS]

00:44:45   twist this at the end up making so [TS]

00:44:47   straightforward i'm cringing thinking of [TS]

00:44:48   what possible way they could try to [TS]

00:44:51   explain the seven-year-old your [TS]

00:44:53   ten-year-old girl who regenerates like [TS]

00:44:55   no seriously that's not river there's [TS]

00:44:57   another ten year older or regenerate [TS]

00:44:59   sounds like a Time Lord and i don't [TS]

00:45:01   think that i think it would be bad I [TS]

00:45:02   don't know yet I don't know really where [TS]

00:45:04   the only speculation I've read about [TS]

00:45:06   that would be if it was if if rivers Amy [TS]

00:45:10   and Rory's child and that girl is the [TS]

00:45:13   doctor and rivers child but I dr. [TS]

00:45:16   android want to go to that would be the [TS]

00:45:20   other alternative is awkward but yeah [TS]

00:45:23   and then that that's the mother of Susan [TS]

00:45:25   the doctors granddaughter right there [TS]

00:45:28   you go now oh my God we're gonna come [TS]

00:45:29   full circle 50th anniversary all that [TS]

00:45:34   would that would hurt my head so much [TS]

00:45:35   the forest episode where there's a [TS]

00:45:38   another forest right it's always the at [TS]

00:45:41   the forest here where he says you know [TS]

00:45:43   my name is the only person that you know [TS]

00:45:45   my name and of course a big baby carrier [TS]

00:45:48   the baby cot the crib superclasses name [TS]

00:45:53   on it yeah [TS]

00:45:53   yes there's a couple different things [TS]

00:45:55   that really are two different bits of [TS]

00:45:56   gal friend that they look at what must [TS]

00:45:58   be the front one must be in the back and [TS]

00:46:00   presumably that might have his name on [TS]

00:46:01   it if she reads Gallifrey in which we [TS]

00:46:03   know she does that that maybe the [TS]

00:46:05   explanation for why she notices name [TS]

00:46:07   which we're told he does not have [TS]

00:46:08   however [TS]

00:46:09   right interesting right so what did what [TS]

00:46:14   did people think about the the reveal [TS]

00:46:15   was it you know [TS]

00:46:16   did you think it was well liked it it [TS]

00:46:18   was good at it you know obviously it all [TS]

00:46:20   adds up right before it so you get to [TS]

00:46:22   feel smart because we figured it out [TS]

00:46:23   before ya before they say it on screen [TS]

00:46:25   only water I like feeling smart [TS]

00:46:27   well I mean that and like the hole i [TS]

00:46:29   figured out the melt you know as soon as [TS]

00:46:31   they said the name is melody pond we [TS]

00:46:32   were leading up to i'm like 'oh switch [TS]

00:46:34   them and then yes and I like to compare [TS]

00:46:37   it to the reveal at the end of the last [TS]

00:46:39   season with the with the wedding thing [TS]

00:46:41   and something borrowed something blue [TS]

00:46:42   and I felt like I i like it when I'm [TS]

00:46:44   just ahead of the reveal but in this [TS]

00:46:46   reveal I think everybody was way way [TS]

00:46:49   ahead but I was like yeah we now get on [TS]

00:46:51   with the river song right but there's [TS]

00:46:52   something borrowed something blue you or [TS]

00:46:53   maybe like man 60 seconds ahead of it [TS]

00:46:56   and it feels more exciting you know what [TS]

00:46:57   I mean even though that reveals cheesier [TS]

00:46:59   than this one this one makes a lot more [TS]

00:47:00   sense because it makes more sense and is [TS]

00:47:03   less arbitrary it's a just a little bit [TS]

00:47:05   less satisfying eunomia yeah but it's [TS]

00:47:08   still nice to have all the ends tied up [TS]

00:47:10   well someone some of the ends tied up [TS]

00:47:12   and it was it was nice enough the way [TS]

00:47:15   you know it i thought it was nicely done [TS]

00:47:16   where they resolve the TARDIS is gone [TS]

00:47:19   and yet somehow they're suddenly able to [TS]

00:47:20   translate the language of the game [TS]

00:47:22   before us whatever I it was if it was [TS]

00:47:24   always into the TARDIS aren't they once [TS]

00:47:26   they've been in July yeah lot of [TS]

00:47:28   research for that TARDIS boy is there [TS]

00:47:30   anything you can't do so don't start [TS]

00:47:33   entire universe unlock can be a person [TS]

00:47:35   it's amazing and be a person but it was [TS]

00:47:38   nice that the the way it was done where [TS]

00:47:41   it's the language of the gamma forest [TS]

00:47:42   and it's the two sides so that it's out [TS]

00:47:45   of sequence and and they don't have a [TS]

00:47:47   word for pond and I mean it was nicely [TS]

00:47:50   put together even though like John says [TS]

00:47:53   you knew it was coming [TS]

00:47:55   I thought I could appreciate how was all [TS]

00:47:57   interlocking together i can I could also [TS]

00:47:59   see how he's a younger child you know [TS]

00:48:02   someone who's younger might not pick up [TS]

00:48:04   on all those cues and then feel very [TS]

00:48:06   satisfied thank you to it yeah you know [TS]

00:48:08   I think my only problem with it is that [TS]

00:48:10   we had so many like flash reveals in [TS]

00:48:13   this in this particular episode with the [TS]

00:48:15   flesh baby and everything else we like [TS]

00:48:17   haha oh my god and then this this in [TS]

00:48:20   contrast feels so straightforward and I [TS]

00:48:22   remember what [TS]

00:48:23   thing that like the last couple minutes [TS]

00:48:25   of it when she's like I'm melody I'm [TS]

00:48:26   your daughter and inwardly I was [TS]

00:48:29   cringing a little bit but I mean as a [TS]

00:48:31   whole it fits but it did feel like it [TS]

00:48:34   felt very heavy-handed where it's like [TS]

00:48:36   River you could've just not said [TS]

00:48:38   anything at all and just let the let the [TS]

00:48:40   leaf you know the leaf pattern go over [TS]

00:48:44   and show her name without actually [TS]

00:48:47   exposing on it but that's just me [TS]

00:48:49   I also think it's just incredible [TS]

00:48:50   callousness about like which of the [TS]

00:48:52   writers people all the show actually [TS]

00:48:54   parents like the doctor going it'll be [TS]

00:48:56   okay i go take care of its like yes and [TS]

00:48:58   the parents don't get a sear for some [TS]

00:49:00   horrible number of years in which has [TS]

00:49:02   been captive by this hideous alien [TS]

00:49:04   species called the silence and all these [TS]

00:49:05   enemies yeah that's great i'm happy that [TS]

00:49:07   my child is fine and had seen her music [TS]

00:49:09   career I mean he's Bailey and then alien [TS]

00:49:12   and second he already knows that [TS]

00:49:13   happened right but the good news is he [TS]

00:49:15   knows she's okay because Russia is a [TS]

00:49:18   little child they don't mean our [TS]

00:49:20   vehicles you know 40 or something and 45 [TS]

00:49:22   know parody I know that he can go get [TS]

00:49:25   her but she's gonna be eight or ten or [TS]

00:49:27   whatever and small right and they can [TS]

00:49:28   grow up with her later it'll be fine [TS]

00:49:30   well no you know I i have i have an [TS]

00:49:32   excuse for that which is for one thing [TS]

00:49:34   Amy didn't know she was pregnant [TS]

00:49:36   really for the entire time she was [TS]

00:49:38   pregnant and Rory had no freaking clue [TS]

00:49:41   video daughter so when you have them you [TS]

00:49:44   have them all all the sudden awkwardly [TS]

00:49:46   shown together with the baby it's like [TS]

00:49:48   they have no time to realize holy crap [TS]

00:49:50   we made a child [TS]

00:49:52   this is ours this is our baby and then [TS]

00:49:54   the baby explodes so we have two minutes [TS]

00:49:57   and then she explode [TS]

00:49:58   yes well I wanted to either question of [TS]

00:50:00   when exactly when when did flesh Amy [TS]

00:50:03   replace relay me [TS]

00:50:04   ah before America was worried about ya [TS]

00:50:07   he says that says before America but I [TS]

00:50:10   don't offer by answer is off camera that [TS]

00:50:12   is the and well no because there is that [TS]

00:50:14   one part right where she gets kidnapped [TS]

00:50:15   in the 360 hard to look for sliding [TS]

00:50:19   thing before she gets kidnapped that's [TS]

00:50:21   why she don't know but in there was [TS]

00:50:22   which was before the beginning of the [TS]

00:50:24   season without telling you [TS]

00:50:25   yeah which means they don't want to have [TS]

00:50:26   to show it you know or they'll show it [TS]

00:50:28   later and they'll go back at before and [TS]

00:50:31   they will hide happened here I would [TS]

00:50:32   have been happier if you'd been [TS]

00:50:33   kidnapped some point when they were in [TS]

00:50:35   America I thought they were you guys [TS]

00:50:36   when I look elsewhere dish what's that [TS]

00:50:38   part where she disappears in the better [TS]

00:50:40   person not not in that part would like [TS]

00:50:41   when they're when Rory's on the radio [TS]

00:50:43   and he's listening to her talk the [TS]

00:50:45   orphanage is at the orphanage still yeah [TS]

00:50:47   that's bit again I I thought she was [TS]

00:50:49   kidnapped in the when she went into [TS]

00:50:51   first saw the silence in the White House [TS]

00:50:53   bathroom and Jason reminded me that no [TS]

00:50:54   that was she said before America so [TS]

00:50:56   because that would be the logical point [TS]

00:50:57   our stomachs hurting she goes in there [TS]

00:50:59   comes back and she said she's pregnant [TS]

00:51:00   and she's not pregnant so overall we've [TS]

00:51:03   had this this strange seven-episode [TS]

00:51:06   half-season like this doctor who have [TS]

00:51:09   season or whatever felt like an awful [TS]

00:51:11   lot of Arc and not a lot of monster of [TS]

00:51:13   the week [TS]

00:51:13   yeah it is it and I didn't like that [TS]

00:51:15   part but I I think it's harder when you [TS]

00:51:17   only have seven episodes it and you've [TS]

00:51:20   got a finale and you've got a lead into [TS]

00:51:22   the finale and you've got a two-part [TS]

00:51:24   opener that there wasn't a whole lot in [TS]

00:51:26   the middle right there wasn't a lot of [TS]

00:51:27   time [TS]

00:51:28   hey there were there were pirates in [TS]

00:51:30   space pirate has like pirates which was [TS]

00:51:32   like a week week and a weak monster the [TS]

00:51:34   week and see what happens when he does [TS]

00:51:36   monster-of-the-week he doesn't do it [TS]

00:51:37   well welcome do mythology yeah well i [TS]

00:51:39   did make an order but I like that about [TS]

00:51:41   the show that it is you know that they [TS]

00:51:43   just kind of take the TARDIS somewhere [TS]

00:51:44   and there's an adventure and then the [TS]

00:51:46   adventure is done and we didn't feel [TS]

00:51:48   like we got a lot of that we got Neil [TS]

00:51:50   Gaiman episode and we got the space [TS]

00:51:51   pirates and yeah I think about the ones [TS]

00:51:54   with Donna Donna had some good [TS]

00:51:56   monster-of-the-week swear they become do [TS]

00:51:57   it was like character development not so [TS]

00:51:59   much like our plot points but there [TS]

00:52:01   would be less developed on his character [TS]

00:52:03   through like the the Mount Vesuvius [TS]

00:52:04   thing and the mood episodes and I was a [TS]

00:52:06   greater arc plot points in there yet but [TS]

00:52:09   they were good standalone episodes but [TS]

00:52:11   mostly let you get to know the character [TS]

00:52:13   so that what they did in the big arc [TS]

00:52:15   episodes had more effect and made more [TS]

00:52:19   sense you know and ama is an interesting [TS]

00:52:20   character wears i think that the Rorion [TS]

00:52:23   and we are not interested in ames it [TS]

00:52:25   amy is very good-looking which saves [TS]

00:52:27   accounts for a lot but yeah i see is [TS]

00:52:30   very much [TS]

00:52:31   she has like she has some personality [TS]

00:52:34   and her childhood segment gives her [TS]

00:52:36   character more depth than Rory you just [TS]

00:52:39   appears on the scene as the white Mickey [TS]

00:52:42   and [TS]

00:52:43   you know white Mickey that's what these [TS]

00:52:46   a common school I don't want to be the [TS]

00:52:47   metal dog that dog have you ever had a [TS]

00:52:50   white Mickey mmm tasty [TS]

00:52:52   so the you know but I look for something [TS]

00:52:55   i like Amy because she is a dominant [TS]

00:53:00   personality and she actually you know [TS]

00:53:02   she actually does give give it back to [TS]

00:53:05   the doctor like better than he down she [TS]

00:53:08   right she doesn't she [TS]

00:53:09   Donna was much more dominant than amy is [TS]

00:53:11   so but I mean you're also dealing with [TS]

00:53:13   with with the tenth doctor instead of [TS]

00:53:15   the 11th Donna was less of a stereotype [TS]

00:53:17   amy is more of a typical female this is [TS]

00:53:21   a type you've seen females play before [TS]

00:53:22   is Donna was constantly going against [TS]

00:53:25   type help Donna was older and less [TS]

00:53:27   attractive because then she could you [TS]

00:53:29   know you she wasn't expected to be [TS]

00:53:31   spotted it was a different name and [TS]

00:53:33   rightly know that they made the whole [TS]

00:53:34   point of them being like their mates [TS]

00:53:36   right you know they were pals right and [TS]

00:53:38   there wasn't a romantic thing and that [TS]

00:53:39   was kind of refreshing and coming off a [TS]

00:53:41   couple seasons and she was she did not [TS]

00:53:43   admire and rest was the big thing mostly [TS]

00:53:45   other campaigns are in all him or admire [TS]

00:53:47   him or we need them to savor Donna did [TS]

00:53:49   not admire him was constantly yelling at [TS]

00:53:51   him and complaining about the stuff that [TS]

00:53:53   he did well i think another thing is we [TS]

00:53:55   just really haven't had time like there [TS]

00:53:57   hasn't been a lot of time spent on [TS]

00:53:59   developing Rory and Amy as adult [TS]

00:54:01   characters i mean i think the closest [TS]

00:54:03   you get is Amy's choice and even that [TS]

00:54:05   feels less like developing their [TS]

00:54:07   characters as it's a little bit for Amy [TS]

00:54:10   you get a little bit before she gets [TS]

00:54:11   married and she has the whole well I [TS]

00:54:12   don't know if I want to get married but [TS]

00:54:14   I mean in this season we really haven't [TS]

00:54:16   had anything beyond ome was pregnant and [TS]

00:54:19   now she's not and let's let's go worry [TS]

00:54:22   about the fact that she's seeing people [TS]

00:54:24   sliding in and out of walls [TS]

00:54:26   she's a plot device there their [TS]

00:54:28   accessories for the doctors like handbag [TS]

00:54:30   well I think Scott's got a good point [TS]

00:54:31   that's was another analogy that it's not [TS]

00:54:33   it's not just that that she's a she's a [TS]

00:54:35   patent or an accessory but the plot has [TS]

00:54:38   been about Amy both years first off [TS]

00:54:41   there was the whole crack in her wall [TS]

00:54:42   and her rebooting the universe in her [TS]

00:54:44   mind and then this year we have the [TS]

00:54:46   whole you know where's Amy she's [TS]

00:54:47   kidnappers her baby i feel like it [TS]

00:54:50   echoed the first half for me in that the [TS]

00:54:52   you know the first season for me out of [TS]

00:54:55   the Mastersmith in that there was a lot [TS]

00:54:58   of mixed bag in the beginning and a nice [TS]

00:55:00   friend pull it out at the end because i [TS]

00:55:02   said i'm one of the previous flash flash [TS]

00:55:03   podcasting and seasons let me kind of [TS]

00:55:05   cold i haven't really been invested in [TS]

00:55:07   yet I thought about the finale was you [TS]

00:55:09   know the best part of it and i felt the [TS]

00:55:11   same thing about last year with a pen [TS]

00:55:13   dorko really maybe he knows he does [TS]

00:55:14   great finale so we said let's do two [TS]

00:55:17   seasons mills of finale do really crappy [TS]

00:55:20   shows leading well if you if you think [TS]

00:55:22   about the seven episodes what do you if [TS]

00:55:24   you if you said alright I've got all of [TS]

00:55:26   them on my DVR on my iPad or wherever [TS]

00:55:29   and i'm going to go back in the end and [TS]

00:55:31   relive the high points you know what [TS]

00:55:35   what do you do are their episodes have [TS]

00:55:37   that you would pick two to relive and [TS]

00:55:39   watching a 4-1 i watch i would watch the [TS]

00:55:42   openers i watch doctor's wife and then [TS]

00:55:44   I'd skip to the flash two-parter and [TS]

00:55:47   then go to the end at every single other [TS]

00:55:49   episode this this half series has left [TS]

00:55:52   me you know I I could care less whether [TS]

00:55:54   what actually happened because nothing [TS]

00:55:56   but we are two episodes that you would [TS]

00:55:58   watch them well I guess because they're [TS]

00:56:00   all two partners but stuff but it felt [TS]

00:56:02   you know it felt like maybe maybe that's [TS]

00:56:04   the issue that i like the production [TS]

00:56:08   design in the first episode with it was [TS]

00:56:09   more like on location shooting look more [TS]

00:56:11   like a movie and I mean and then we got [TS]

00:56:13   back into like the sets and you know the [TS]

00:56:16   the interior studio stuff and it was it [TS]

00:56:18   was less grand and not not that I really [TS]

00:56:20   love the astronaut business is as that [TS]

00:56:22   much but I did like the way look to [TS]

00:56:25   their outdoors more and relocations and [TS]

00:56:27   you know I i agree although I actually [TS]

00:56:29   think the sets this season have been [TS]

00:56:31   very good i think that i think the show [TS]

00:56:33   is looked really good I i do agree that [TS]

00:56:36   it you get that claustrophobia when when [TS]

00:56:39   I show doesn't do lots of location [TS]

00:56:41   shooting and the America stuff was wide [TS]

00:56:43   open and cinematic we have sun in [TS]

00:56:46   America it's not raining all the time is [TS]

00:56:48   also the first season I think in a [TS]

00:56:49   really long time where we didn't get any [TS]

00:56:52   present-day stuff at all right now [TS]

00:56:55   there's nothing that happened in our you [TS]

00:56:57   know in the present day basically all [TS]

00:56:59   there pumping acid right now offshore [TS]

00:57:01   you just have a blast that was going on [TS]

00:57:04   you're right i was 15 20 minutes into [TS]

00:57:07   the future like Max Headroom yes but [TS]

00:57:09   that is a previous you know in is we had [TS]

00:57:12   some of that last year and we had a lot [TS]

00:57:13   of it during the day 10th david tennant [TS]

00:57:15   run seemed like every every year there [TS]

00:57:17   were at least you know three or four [TS]

00:57:18   episodes that dealt with something [TS]

00:57:19   happening in the present the only stuff [TS]

00:57:21   of the present is at the very beginning [TS]

00:57:22   of the first episode where Amy and Rory [TS]

00:57:25   home and they go to America right now [TS]

00:57:28   remember these characters in the present [TS]

00:57:30   day like like roses family and her [TS]

00:57:32   friends like we get back there is like [TS]

00:57:34   his roses mom you know Russell's babies [TS]

00:57:37   built a whole bunch of characters in the [TS]

00:57:39   present day and then alternate universe [TS]

00:57:41   president day that were good to come [TS]

00:57:43   back to i mean russell t davies like his [TS]

00:57:45   cast even Moffat seemed like he was [TS]

00:57:47   trying to do that if you go back to the [TS]

00:57:48   11th hour there's a bunch of other [TS]

00:57:50   people that we meet right were no Amy [TS]

00:57:53   right you know Amy and and yet none of [TS]

00:57:56   those people i think ever really come [TS]

00:57:57   back right [TS]

00:57:59   her parents are dead in the first [TS]

00:58:00   episode and then their band anymore he [TS]

00:58:02   randomly come back with them into the [TS]

00:58:04   new universe let's just forget it was [TS]

00:58:06   like a whole other guy that's like sort [TS]

00:58:07   of a love interest remember this is a [TS]

00:58:09   guy with a laptop that the doctor [TS]

00:58:10   borrows I was kind of yeah I his mother [TS]

00:58:13   has got me horned on this laptop [TS]

00:58:15   yeah exactly which was funny but like [TS]

00:58:16   then that whole being disappeared that [TS]

00:58:19   most guys weren't very interesting [TS]

00:58:20   characters compared to like roses [TS]

00:58:22   father-daughter 1 episode I know whether [TS]

00:58:25   that they distant you know they added a [TS]

00:58:28   seem like the actors more interesting [TS]

00:58:30   because i'm pretty sure the temperature [TS]

00:58:31   the and turns out to be the lady with [TS]

00:58:33   the eye patch though huh maybe that [TS]

00:58:37   one's calling it was coming on it i call [TS]

00:58:39   again [TS]

00:58:39   well that's a good one point I think I [TS]

00:58:43   think Prisoner Zero is Rory alright well [TS]

00:58:49   so in the fall [TS]

00:58:50   doctor who will be back with six more [TS]

00:58:52   episodes where did that isn't just for [TS]

00:58:54   the episode will learn maybe there'll be [TS]

00:58:56   girls now or maybe they want that needs [TS]

00:58:59   a Scott needs a hug [TS]

00:59:00   I didn't have my was Rory dressed as his [TS]

00:59:03   Roman centurion did anyone else that [TS]

00:59:05   they mentioned didn't mention anything [TS]

00:59:07   about her life her house and math [TS]

00:59:09   it had the doctor likes it that's just [TS]

00:59:12   ridiculous [TS]

00:59:13   now you want you i would say it was [TS]

00:59:14   mentioning right if he was walking [TS]

00:59:16   around dressed up as a nurse know he's [TS]

00:59:17   gonna take like they were trying to [TS]

00:59:18   reuse every costume and make-up effect [TS]

00:59:20   from the past 10 years is your go-to [TS]

00:59:22   Cyberman fleet and and you say you know [TS]

00:59:26   I have a statement happening below and [TS]

00:59:27   that it in plain clothes and then [TS]

00:59:29   they're hopefully explodes they're going [TS]

00:59:30   to take seriously they're not going to [TS]

00:59:32   say oh if you were wearing a cape I take [TS]

00:59:34   you seriously right because you're not [TS]

00:59:35   playing off the whole fact that the last [TS]

00:59:37   century it was a known quantity right i [TS]

00:59:40   cannot wait for the time you want [TS]

00:59:42   anything is the last century has become [TS]

00:59:44   a myth like the doctors be going with [TS]

00:59:45   but nobody seemed to notice nobody [TS]

00:59:48   recognizes the lesson sorry [TS]

00:59:50   well they should've shot him on sight [TS]

00:59:51   but that's not her doctor who works we [TS]

00:59:53   did not discuss the Headless monks [TS]

00:59:54   somehow I don't think we should now but [TS]

00:59:56   i will point out what they want what I [TS]

00:59:58   don't like they're never out of it [TS]

00:59:58   don't like they're never out of it [TS]

01:00:00   question they are stupid and ridiculous [TS]

01:00:02   and we will never speak of them again [TS]

01:00:04   the Headless monks can't hear but we [TS]

01:00:06   might as well talk to them yeah [TS]

01:00:07   hello had this box glad I'm glad we [TS]

01:00:11   didn't talk about the headless months [TS]

01:00:12   that was really good not talking about [TS]

01:00:13   it alright well that wraps up our [TS]

01:00:16   coverage of Doctor Who for this half [TS]

01:00:19   season will have another half in the [TS]

01:00:21   fall until then we'll resume our [TS]

01:00:24   discussion of other topics on the [TS]

01:00:26   uncomfortable until next time i would [TS]

01:00:28   like to thank my doctor who participants [TS]

01:00:31   Scott McNulty thank you for bringing [TS]

01:00:33   your your wit and laying in the weeds [TS]

01:00:35   until you have a moment to strike and [TS]

01:00:38   slice with your humor that's rather like [TS]

01:00:40   a king cobra of humor when fleischmann [TS]

01:00:44   thank you for being here and giving us [TS]

01:00:46   all your theories and guaranteeing crazy [TS]

01:00:48   future developments [TS]

01:00:50   thank you and keep watching the skies I [TS]

01:00:52   of course I never stopped already called [TS]

01:00:55   well thank you for lending your [TS]

01:00:56   perspective to the this the frivolity [TS]

01:00:58   has always been more'n thank you for [TS]

01:01:02   speaking with us as you're prepared to [TS]

01:01:05   run out the door with a suitcase and go [TS]

01:01:06   on vacation I Jason I'm actually living [TS]

01:01:09   this podcast backward [TS]

01:01:12   right and more and joins us everybody [TS]

01:01:14   and John siracusa thank you for being [TS]

01:01:18   here as well feel bigger on the inside [TS]

01:01:20   Jason and on that note thank you [TS]

01:01:25   everybody for listening to the [TS]

01:01:27   comfortable podcast see you next time [TS]

01:01:37   [Music] [TS]

01:01:44   I'm sorry I'm sorry are we with the last [TS]

01:01:47   century and with the second the last [TS]

01:01:49   century and I just I just keep mixing [TS]

01:01:50   there's a big fan fiction opportunity [TS]

01:01:52   here Scott for this is like the last [TS]

01:01:55   century and is that of fanfiction [TS]

01:01:56   worried / dr. fanfiction I just now I [TS]

01:02:04   really did like the Cybermen in this [TS]

01:02:05   because they were like really flummoxed [TS]

01:02:08   like you know the Daleks Department all [TS]

01:02:10   these like ridiculously unearthly [TS]

01:02:11   villains that are just two super [TS]

01:02:13   powerful you always wanted to destroy [TS]

01:02:15   everybody immediately I didn't like the [TS]

01:02:17   fact you're like holy crap [TS]

01:02:18   what's going on and this guy walks in [TS]

01:02:20   and they're all just standing there it's [TS]

01:02:21   like wipe that blank look off your face [TS]

01:02:23   is a cancer Cyberman but what I what I [TS]

01:02:27   liked about the Cybermen in this episode [TS]

01:02:28   is that rather than it being like [TS]

01:02:31   there's a couple Cyberman and maybe they [TS]

01:02:32   got a Zeppelin and they got a little [TS]

01:02:34   plan and fiber kids yeah just maybe [TS]

01:02:37   they're just having lunch there just [TS]

01:02:39   sitting around like we should we have a [TS]

01:02:40   sandwich [TS]

01:02:41   they're there they're like we've got a [TS]

01:02:42   whole fleet know we did all these ships [TS]

01:02:45   do is listen to stuff you know and this [TS]

01:02:47   is the 12th me you should see our other [TS]

01:02:49   weapon fleets right but they're like out [TS]

01:02:50   there in space it would take the doctor [TS]

01:02:52   like like 10 seconds to blow up or [TS]

01:02:54   bigger fleet [TS]

01:02:55   yeah instead of three say exactly that's [TS]

01:02:58   why he's scared 33 minutes and 40 [TS]

01:03:01   seconds right well you know and i also [TS]

01:03:02   appreciated the fact that it was a [TS]

01:03:05   little bit of a misdirect right because [TS]

01:03:07   for a second i don't know maybe it was [TS]

01:03:08   just me when I saw this item and I'm [TS]

01:03:10   like oh crap we're we are seeing and [TS]

01:03:13   super ultimate plan and by the Cybermen [TS]

01:03:15   but no no it was just a show [TS]

01:03:17   everybody's just throw away the Cybermen [TS]

01:03:19   plans have a really bad average of [TS]

01:03:21   success [TS]

01:03:22   this is true that sort of the Daleks the [TS]

01:03:25   dogs that have better success in the [TS]

01:03:27   Cybermen the Cybermen don't even get me [TS]

01:03:28   started on silent slave him it's not [TS]

01:03:30   like second last place in the last place [TS]

01:03:32   come on the Daleks like take over the [TS]

01:03:34   galaxy and then are defeated the [TS]

01:03:36   Cybermen vulture they stole the whole [TS]

01:03:37   earth borrowed the earth the Daleks get [TS]

01:03:40   pretty for ya you were gonna say [TS]

01:03:43   something [TS]

01:03:44   no I was not and wants to go to the [TS]

01:03:46   finger lakes I want to kind of engage [TS]

01:03:49   unless they vote for something I don't [TS]

01:03:52   not i don't want to go to Chelsea he [TS]

01:03:56   wants to get a white Mickey and go to [TS]

01:03:57   the finger [TS]

01:03:57   finally I don't know what is that sounds [TS]

01:04:02   tantalizingly make sure I think we have [TS]

01:04:03   a think we were trying to slip you know [TS]

01:04:06   you slip somebody Mickey yeah I think [TS]

01:04:08   it'll get a little milk in there if it [TS]

01:04:10   looks like a white russian that's a way [TS]

01:04:11   but i'm a little bit of the free in [TS]

01:04:13   their little white flesh it sound like [TS]

01:04:15   something you get it like a speakeasy so [TS]

01:04:17   you slip a little white milk into [TS]

01:04:18   somebody give me Mary fingers and white [TS]

01:04:21   Mickey please [TS]

01:04:22   yeah neat i'll take a headless monk and [TS]

01:04:24   a white Mickey [TS]