The Incomparable

43: Mulder and Pacey in "The F-Files"


00:00:02   the incomparable part test number for [TS]

00:00:07   every jun 2011 [TS]

00:00:11   we're back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:15   the TV season or at least the [TS]

00:00:17   traditional network TV season has [TS]

00:00:19   wrapped up and as a result we want to [TS]

00:00:22   check in on one of our favorite shows [TS]

00:00:25   and well maybe it's not our favorite [TS]

00:00:28   show one of the shows that is available [TS]

00:00:30   let's put that judges it is the most [TS]

00:00:32   politically correct podcast many shows [TS]

00:00:34   are available this is what i am talking [TS]

00:00:36   about Fox television's sci-fi series [TS]

00:00:40   fringe and joining me today I'm Jason [TS]

00:00:44   smell your host joining me today to [TS]

00:00:46   discuss fringe rd and more in hi Dan [TS]

00:00:48   hello Jason and John siracusa hi John [TS]

00:00:51   idealism John is in an alternate [TS]

00:00:54   universe just so you know this is this [TS]

00:00:56   is the alternate John we're all in an [TS]

00:00:58   alternate universe [TS]

00:00:59   damn he is actually he's actually [TS]

00:01:01   hypocritical interesting strange you [TS]

00:01:05   didn't see that coming but they he he [TS]

00:01:08   has a serious lack of criticism [TS]

00:01:11   yeah he just loves everything wow that's [TS]

00:01:14   come about real genius haha sorry that [TS]

00:01:17   was my will do not funny [TS]

00:01:20   well you think it was funny and I'll [TS]

00:01:22   universe it was funny [TS]

00:01:24   I'm only here to amuse myself and as [TS]

00:01:26   such doing great job done excellent work [TS]

00:01:29   so so fringe we we talked about it in [TS]

00:01:34   fact where you guys on that podcast [TS]

00:01:36   where we talked about sci-fi TV in the [TS]

00:01:37   fall i believe i was just podcast along [TS]

00:01:41   now that I don't even remember the too [TS]

00:01:44   many episodes so so fringe I thought it [TS]

00:01:49   has been a show that is generally gotten [TS]

00:01:51   better over time as they've gotten to [TS]

00:01:54   evolve their story and this season we [TS]

00:01:56   really got to see I think they're kind [TS]

00:01:59   of full-blown concept of the two [TS]

00:02:02   parallel universes and all the different [TS]

00:02:06   all the different ramifications of that [TS]

00:02:09   and you know what it but it's [TS]

00:02:12   interesting to look back on it from from [TS]

00:02:14   when where we started this season this [TS]

00:02:17   season started with this idea that [TS]

00:02:19   Olivia had been swapped with her [TS]

00:02:21   duplicate and [TS]

00:02:22   she had been like locked up in a in a in [TS]

00:02:25   a Cell in the Ultimate Universe and the [TS]

00:02:27   duplicate Olivia was in place but we [TS]

00:02:30   ended up getting was sort of alternating [TS]

00:02:32   storylines for a while where we were in [TS]

00:02:33   one universe and we're in the other [TS]

00:02:35   universe and you know I i really liked [TS]

00:02:37   it i thought that when I really well and [TS]

00:02:38   was great use of the cast being able to [TS]

00:02:41   be two different characters but it's [TS]

00:02:43   still being one show i really enjoyed it [TS]

00:02:45   and it's funny because one around the [TS]

00:02:47   time the season started I watching an [TS]

00:02:49   interview with former foes the Catholic [TS]

00:02:51   was just the cast or a few of the the [TS]

00:02:53   main members and they kept stressing [TS]

00:02:56   this idea that like their goal was to [TS]

00:02:59   make you care about those alternate [TS]

00:03:01   versions of the characters like and not [TS]

00:03:02   just having begin makes likely evil Kirk [TS]

00:03:05   right like on Star Trek but to actually [TS]

00:03:07   have you sort of sympathize with those [TS]

00:03:10   alternate characters and they said you [TS]

00:03:12   know if we've done that then our job is [TS]

00:03:13   really is really done and I think they [TS]

00:03:15   actually managed to pull it off like you [TS]

00:03:17   know they were in almost I mean there [TS]

00:03:19   are few almost entire episodes in which [TS]

00:03:21   we don't see our universe right and i [TS]

00:03:25   still felt really engaged in like [TS]

00:03:28   interested in what was going on I really [TS]

00:03:30   came to like a lot of the characters in [TS]

00:03:32   the alternate universe it gave us a [TS]

00:03:34   chance to like play around with some [TS]

00:03:35   characters who I felt like got kinda [TS]

00:03:37   short shrift in our universe like [TS]

00:03:39   Charlie for example rather they killed [TS]

00:03:41   off and right and so we get the [TS]

00:03:43   alternate version and he's kinda you [TS]

00:03:45   know I think he's there's something [TS]

00:03:47   about a lot of the characters in the [TS]

00:03:49   alternate universe that are almost more [TS]

00:03:50   I mean it's more of a science fiction [TS]

00:03:52   using the universe and some rice so and [TS]

00:03:55   the characters are I think a little more [TS]

00:03:56   allowed to Duke like slightly crazier [TS]

00:03:58   stuff for be a little more off the wall [TS]

00:04:00   I mean like the the alternate Olivia and [TS]

00:04:04   they and they say point this out i think [TS]

00:04:05   which I which I found interesting [TS]

00:04:07   because a lot of people can sort of [TS]

00:04:09   characterize Anna tours you know [TS]

00:04:11   performance and effort season and tu as [TS]

00:04:13   des very you know wooden reserved and I [TS]

00:04:15   think you know seeing her play the [TS]

00:04:17   alternate Livia that we've realized that [TS]

00:04:19   like a lot of that's the character right [TS]

00:04:21   and not necessarily heard she's capable [TS]

00:04:24   of playing a character who's a little [TS]

00:04:25   more you know outgoing and I [TS]

00:04:29   it has a little more you know spark to [TS]

00:04:31   her but that's just they're different [TS]

00:04:33   they're different people [TS]

00:04:34   I think your game everybody all the [TS]

00:04:36   actors so really nice material and that [TS]

00:04:39   they get to differentiate themselves a [TS]

00:04:41   little bit but you're right i think that [TS]

00:04:42   anna torv showed that the most because [TS]

00:04:45   Olivia such a button-down character [TS]

00:04:48   she's just locked in she's your you know [TS]

00:04:50   tough FBI agent you know very similar [TS]

00:04:53   personality and so you know she got to [TS]

00:04:55   do a lot of other kind of wacky stuff [TS]

00:04:57   that is is beyond what she was asked to [TS]

00:04:59   do before and I think she did show a lot [TS]

00:05:01   more range than then I had given her [TS]

00:05:03   credit for the one that surprised me the [TS]

00:05:05   most was out Walter because I mean [TS]

00:05:07   obviously it's an actor playing a [TS]

00:05:09   character in the wacky Walter and then [TS]

00:05:10   the main universe but my lord of the [TS]

00:05:13   rings he's he's nuts to write so yeah [TS]

00:05:16   but a different kind of nuts but the [TS]

00:05:18   wall turn it like it looks like almost [TS]

00:05:20   like they use cg to change his face [TS]

00:05:22   because his whole life he stands up [TS]

00:05:23   straight and he's he's much more grim [TS]

00:05:26   and his face looks less rumbly in the [TS]

00:05:28   comas hair and he just looks so [TS]

00:05:29   different acts so different and just [TS]

00:05:31   totally convincing I i'll actually like [TS]

00:05:33   Walternate better than Walter yeah [TS]

00:05:35   actually so I hardcore you know I [TS]

00:05:37   thought in the season finale I had a I [TS]

00:05:39   had a feeling that they were gonna kill [TS]

00:05:40   Walter and leave us with Walter net [TS]

00:05:42   which would have been sort of sad and [TS]

00:05:44   yet would have been fascinating because [TS]

00:05:45   you still have the same actor and and [TS]

00:05:47   they're both great characters [TS]

00:05:50   yeah Walter 'not such a hundred 90 [TS]

00:05:52   degree shift for multi guess the idea [TS]

00:05:54   and the show is the Walter was so he [TS]

00:05:57   actually removed parts of his brain [TS]

00:05:58   because he was getting all messed up [TS]

00:06:00   yeah he's just he's messed up and sort [TS]

00:06:01   of probably messed up in somewhere i [TS]

00:06:04   love his i love I would be sad to see [TS]

00:06:06   Walter go I felt like because for no [TS]

00:06:07   other reason than those you know those [TS]

00:06:09   first two seasons don't work you know [TS]

00:06:11   like he is the most interesting part of [TS]

00:06:13   the show several seasons him in the cow [TS]

00:06:15   right and at first but the first two [TS]

00:06:19   seasons [TS]

00:06:19   I felt like they burned through a lot of [TS]

00:06:22   their character their character set up [TS]

00:06:26   so they had done like so you have the [TS]

00:06:28   relationship thing between Pacey and and [TS]

00:06:30   whatsherface are you calling tasted too [TS]

00:06:32   i got that everyone does that case yeah [TS]

00:06:34   it's called his paces are shadowed paid [TS]

00:06:36   that Peter in the Ultimate Universe died [TS]

00:06:39   but our universe but then they went to [TS]

00:06:41   the ultimate universal brought back pace [TS]

00:06:42   PCB and you have a Walther with his [TS]

00:06:45   guilt over his son and he's in the [TS]

00:06:47   insane asylum like they had a bunch of [TS]

00:06:48   setup of like what here the tensions [TS]

00:06:50   between the characters and sort of like [TS]

00:06:52   once Peter gets together you know it's [TS]

00:06:54   kind of like once Mulder and Scully get [TS]

00:06:55   together that's kind of you know what do [TS]

00:06:57   you do now you likely break them up and [TS]

00:06:59   then put it back together you gotta send [TS]

00:07:01   the alternate whatever Walter like we [TS]

00:07:03   found that his brain was messed up we [TS]

00:07:05   you know his son pretty much forgave him [TS]

00:07:07   and that tension from the first season [TS]

00:07:08   is gone he settled into his work you [TS]

00:07:11   know like all those things are starting [TS]

00:07:12   to resolve themselves and you got to get [TS]

00:07:14   into like secondary and tertiary [TS]

00:07:15   conflicts where you either re-involved [TS]

00:07:18   the original conflict or try to get up [TS]

00:07:21   some new one the alternate universe [TS]

00:07:23   gives you a whole new set of conflicts [TS]

00:07:24   with these characters have different [TS]

00:07:25   relationships you know they're not in [TS]

00:07:27   the same relationships and there's [TS]

00:07:28   different tensions between people is [TS]

00:07:30   traditionally noticed that the romance [TS]

00:07:31   things where person a is interested in [TS]

00:07:34   person be but are they going to get [TS]

00:07:35   together as a couple more of those in [TS]

00:07:37   the alternate universe and there's you [TS]

00:07:39   know is this character irredeemably evil [TS]

00:07:41   vs is he gonna you know have feelings [TS]

00:07:43   for his son and stuff like that so in [TS]

00:07:46   season 2 they start to introduce those [TS]

00:07:48   in season three was like well we're [TS]

00:07:50   getting kind of tired of the main [TS]

00:07:51   universe because we've burned through [TS]

00:07:53   all of our stock there so let's do a [TS]

00:07:54   whole bunch of stuff in the alternate [TS]

00:07:56   universe where everything can be like [TS]

00:07:58   fresh and new again we're like we can [TS]

00:07:59   look at their the same actors and [TS]

00:08:01   they're really the same you know people [TS]

00:08:03   supposedly but its all new situations [TS]

00:08:05   and we can expect different things out [TS]

00:08:07   of them now for the for the next season [TS]

00:08:10   i wonder they're going to make a third [TS]

00:08:12   universe like it's just gonna be you [TS]

00:08:13   know you sob the glimpse at a third [TS]

00:08:16   universe right well it's it's it's well [TS]

00:08:18   so there's a couple things going on I i [TS]

00:08:20   do want to i do want to get there [TS]

00:08:21   because I have an idea about what's [TS]

00:08:23   going to happen in the next season two [TS]

00:08:24   but to talk about that the the two sets [TS]

00:08:28   for a little bit longer [TS]

00:08:30   you know you're right I agree completely [TS]

00:08:32   i think not only did they allow us to [TS]

00:08:35   see these alternate versions and Dan you [TS]

00:08:38   know it's so true these are the like [TS]

00:08:39   x-men versions the fringe division to [TS]

00:08:41   the establishment they have great a big [TS]

00:08:44   cool headquarters in a truck that they [TS]

00:08:47   drive around in and they don't even like [TS]

00:08:49   they've been doing all this stuff a lot [TS]

00:08:50   longer right because I must be no don't [TS]

00:08:52   remember [TS]

00:08:53   right so the amber the vortexes and the [TS]

00:08:55   and all those like you know the the [TS]

00:08:58   cracks in the university they have to [TS]

00:09:00   deal with living in his eyes I universe [TS]

00:09:01   basically they're like they're like [TS]

00:09:03   consumers ahead of ya [TS]

00:09:04   yeah it's simply state wait there's some [TS]

00:09:06   really interesting stuff because by [TS]

00:09:07   putting our Olivia there and then having [TS]

00:09:09   to gradually figure out who she is which [TS]

00:09:12   is an interesting choice of much it [TS]

00:09:13   seems kind of weird and strange to me in [TS]

00:09:16   a little bit but it did allow her to be [TS]

00:09:18   our eyes and and the you know in [TS]

00:09:20   addition to the cute things like the DC [TS]

00:09:22   Comics covers that are different in the [TS]

00:09:24   fact that the Dodgers still play in [TS]

00:09:25   brooklyn and that then the West the west [TS]

00:09:27   wing is still on [TS]

00:09:28   yeah that was my favorite will throw [TS]

00:09:30   away the World Trade Center is still [TS]

00:09:31   standing [TS]

00:09:32   all of these things it is because of [TS]

00:09:35   this all the four texts and all that [TS]

00:09:38   happened because of our what our Walter [TS]

00:09:40   did it is a police state everybody has [TS]

00:09:43   their show me's and and you basically [TS]

00:09:45   everybody is watched and everything is [TS]

00:09:48   locked down which is a engineering do we [TS]

00:09:51   ever even here reference to a president [TS]

00:09:53   or is it really seemed like I think they [TS]

00:09:55   say that your mom is the president at [TS]

00:09:56   one point that's right they do it [TS]

00:09:58   somewhat but the second it seems very [TS]

00:09:59   much like Walternate the secretary of [TS]

00:10:02   defense is pretty much in charge of [TS]

00:10:04   everything right [TS]

00:10:05   maybe he's making universe destroying [TS]

00:10:07   decisions unilaterally isn't so that's [TS]

00:10:09   because it allowed to you know control [TS]

00:10:11   the army but he's allowed to annihilate [TS]

00:10:13   the universe without consulting anyone [TS]

00:10:14   else [TS]

00:10:15   well you know any girls watch jordan [TS]

00:10:17   yeah you know you have a pretty sure I i [TS]

00:10:20   wanna i want to give props to a [TS]

00:10:22   relatively a character who I feel like [TS]

00:10:24   was introduced as a relatively minor [TS]

00:10:26   character and grew to be one of my [TS]

00:10:28   favorite characters and that's Lincoln [TS]

00:10:29   Lincoln i love is what I'm a big fan I [TS]

00:10:33   like Seth Gabel he was previously on a [TS]

00:10:34   show called The Dirty Sexy Money that [TS]

00:10:36   did not last very long in which he [TS]

00:10:38   played kind of a spoiled rich brat [TS]

00:10:40   friend was so nice to see ya it's so [TS]

00:10:43   nice to see him play another part he was [TS]

00:10:44   always very likeable on that show and I [TS]

00:10:46   think they've given him something you [TS]

00:10:47   know they turned into like a badass in [TS]

00:10:49   the show and so he he first appears one [TS]

00:10:51   at the end of season two [TS]

00:10:52   he gets three years on earth that was my [TS]

00:10:54   favorite things is that they don't they [TS]

00:10:56   don't explain it there's no exposition [TS]

00:10:57   he just comes on screen and he's all [TS]

00:10:59   messed up now know that Cano he gets he [TS]

00:11:01   gets burned in the season 2 finale by [TS]

00:11:03   one of the other one special power side [TS]

00:11:06   yeah yeah when they go out here they [TS]

00:11:08   don't explain like how is he still [TS]

00:11:10   walking isn't even in extreme pain is [TS]

00:11:12   the right guy like there's no there [TS]

00:11:15   there magical alternate oversight was [TS]

00:11:17   their way of expressing that the rules [TS]

00:11:18   are different in this university is not [TS]

00:11:20   a big deal that this happened to him [TS]

00:11:21   that Helen right exactly and that you [TS]

00:11:23   don't people just accept it really [TS]

00:11:25   thought he was dead but now well and and [TS]

00:11:27   I mean I like that you know they [TS]

00:11:29   developed his character i think is the [TS]

00:11:30   season went along [TS]

00:11:31   I've heard that I believe he's coming on [TS]

00:11:33   as a as a regular house in the next [TS]

00:11:35   season which I'm super-excited about and [TS]

00:11:37   i love that they then had the playback [TS]

00:11:39   where we see his version in our universe [TS]

00:11:42   who's this like nerdy dude with glasses [TS]

00:11:44   use like a field agent at all which was [TS]

00:11:47   just it was just such a nice little [TS]

00:11:48   totally had gotten so used to it at the [TS]

00:11:50   end of the episode though he says hey I [TS]

00:11:52   like you guys maybe we could work [TS]

00:11:53   together in the future [TS]

00:11:55   yeah I was like sweet dreams wanna be [TS]

00:11:57   great well you got the alternate [TS]

00:11:59   asteroid who's like basically you know [TS]

00:12:02   she's not messing up just like yeah she [TS]

00:12:04   also she seems like she has some severe [TS]

00:12:06   personality as a mentat speaking of [TS]

00:12:08   bread doing [TS]

00:12:09   yeah it's um no I i really love the fact [TS]

00:12:12   that the set the alternate universe is [TS]

00:12:14   different and yet the characters [TS]

00:12:15   recognizable that you can throw Charlie [TS]

00:12:17   in there you know there's no Peter [TS]

00:12:19   obviously but everybody's got your [TS]

00:12:21   license to kill [TS]

00:12:22   well no more cuz Broyles alternate [TS]

00:12:25   Broyles dead right I thought more people [TS]

00:12:26   would be killed actually but that will [TS]

00:12:29   death of alternate Broyles which was I [TS]

00:12:31   think it may be the high point of the [TS]

00:12:33   whole season is that episode where the [TS]

00:12:36   the pho olivia is found out and Royals [TS]

00:12:40   is being convinced by alternate Broyles [TS]

00:12:43   has been convinced by our Olivia that he [TS]

00:12:45   needs that that Walter is dangerous and [TS]

00:12:47   needs to let her go and the you know in [TS]

00:12:50   the end you know our Broyles finds his [TS]

00:12:54   ya dead body [TS]

00:12:56   yeah of yourself it seems to have [TS]

00:12:59   bounced back from that pretty well I get [TS]

00:13:00   anybody else has like the same scenes in [TS]

00:13:03   every episode [TS]

00:13:04   like damn attitude but they didn't [TS]

00:13:06   didn't give him room to like we don't [TS]

00:13:07   like we're not inside Broyles head to [TS]

00:13:09   see how this is affecting and they gave [TS]

00:13:10   maybe 12 scenes where he's supposed to [TS]

00:13:12   look concerned about the fact that we [TS]

00:13:13   just saw his own body parts called [TS]

00:13:15   littered all over the inside of that and [TS]

00:13:17   it makes me sad because Lance if you [TS]

00:13:19   anyway introduce you watch the wire [TS]

00:13:20   Lance Reddick is a is a fantastic actor [TS]

00:13:23   and really I feel like is is under you [TS]

00:13:26   he's been one of my my disappointments [TS]

00:13:27   in the show and I just feel that he's [TS]

00:13:29   underutilized and they could be like [TS]

00:13:30   Skinner like Skinner was underutilized [TS]

00:13:32   the x-files for a long time and hold [TS]

00:13:34   still is decided you know what let's [TS]

00:13:35   make Skinner do crazy stuff and then you [TS]

00:13:37   know he's gonna be able in the future is [TS]

00:13:39   he's a senator with a glass eye so easy [TS]

00:13:42   he's the authority you know he's the [TS]

00:13:43   police captain basically right and it's [TS]

00:13:45   not it's a kind of a thankless part of [TS]

00:13:48   speaking of the wire bubbles is in [TS]

00:13:50   several episodes to as the all parallel [TS]

00:13:52   universe taxi driver who if they did [TS]

00:13:54   find is that but it's just a little [TS]

00:13:56   guest thing yeah I know but again you [TS]

00:13:58   you see these guys from the wire and you [TS]

00:13:59   like now [TS]

00:14:00   alright I just I just have to point out [TS]

00:14:02   Larry's i just got a direct message from [TS]

00:14:04   a friend of mine guy who I suggested to [TS]

00:14:08   watch fringe and who just apropos of [TS]

00:14:10   nothing just have a direct message about [TS]

00:14:12   watching fringe right now and watching [TS]

00:14:14   anna torv do a leonard nimoy impression [TS]

00:14:16   another and i was about the best moment [TS]

00:14:19   yeah I had his brief moment of how did [TS]

00:14:21   he know we're recording this right now [TS]

00:14:23   what was that not i mean the whole any [TS]

00:14:26   more thing was very strange they kill [TS]

00:14:28   them off and I thought that was [TS]

00:14:29   perfectly good in the finale last year [TS]

00:14:31   and yet they decided they wanted to go [TS]

00:14:33   back to it and so we end up with two [TS]

00:14:36   episodes where Anna Torv does a leonard [TS]

00:14:38   nimoy impression and then we get a [TS]

00:14:40   really kind of fun and strange episode [TS]

00:14:44   that's half animated where his voice and [TS]

00:14:46   their animated well it was worse than [TS]

00:14:48   those uh those Taiwanese things or [TS]

00:14:50   whatever they call it goes it's that [TS]

00:14:52   it's the waking life technologies and [TS]

00:14:55   it's a it's a technique that I it's not [TS]

00:14:57   my favorite either but it is a style [TS]

00:14:59   kind of choice to do that sorry [TS]

00:15:01   execution-style no no but I i actually [TS]

00:15:06   think that my kind of like I kind of [TS]

00:15:07   enjoyed I kind of enjoyed her her [TS]

00:15:10   leonard nimoy picture i was in which she [TS]

00:15:12   was kinda funny but then you thought [TS]

00:15:14   that they were gonna take it seriously [TS]

00:15:16   and you can't to wait i was going yeah I [TS]

00:15:20   don't know I was ok with it didn't [TS]

00:15:21   bother me as much [TS]

00:15:22   I mean next season no I could yeah it [TS]

00:15:25   will always remember when Max and I [TS]

00:15:28   couldn't remember actually from the end [TS]

00:15:29   of last season Howe heat he was in the [TS]

00:15:31   alternate universe and he's there he [TS]

00:15:33   basically like holds people often in [TS]

00:15:35   order to give them time to get back [TS]

00:15:37   right yeah man like button if there's an [TS]

00:15:39   explosion and ok so we don't see him die [TS]

00:15:42   we just what he's losing the heart of [TS]

00:15:44   the explosion and that's right confusion [TS]

00:15:46   is when the Olivia's get switched I [TS]

00:15:47   think it's right all right so in the end [TS]

00:15:51   we have we have this final episode that [TS]

00:15:56   said in the future which is kind of [TS]

00:15:58   funny that they that they have this uh [TS]

00:16:01   almost like a season finale in the [TS]

00:16:04   penultimate episode where you know he [TS]

00:16:07   gets into the Machine and there's a [TS]

00:16:10   sudden he's in the future but that [TS]

00:16:11   wasn't the last episode there was a [TS]

00:16:13   whole last episode that set in this [TS]

00:16:15   possible future [TS]

00:16:18   I don't know wait what's interesting [TS]

00:16:21   choice [TS]

00:16:22   well yeah and I mean I think what would [TS]

00:16:24   amuse me about it was that they [TS]

00:16:26   explained a lot of things that were kind [TS]

00:16:30   of lingering questions right like where [TS]

00:16:32   the machine came from right which I have [TS]

00:16:34   a big problem with because they were [TS]

00:16:35   talking there was this ridiculous thread [TS]

00:16:37   about the first people and back before [TS]

00:16:40   there were humans there was a machine [TS]

00:16:42   and I thought I thought well that's [TS]

00:16:44   ridiculous that couldn't be possible and [TS]

00:16:46   I i like to think that that was just set [TS]

00:16:48   up for the fact that no no that's our [TS]

00:16:51   characters going back in time with this [TS]

00:16:52   it's ok it's a red herring right you [TS]

00:16:54   know what they did if you're lucky if [TS]

00:16:55   you want lost people did is they realize [TS]

00:16:57   what we have repented a vague backstory [TS]

00:17:00   that could be this big gargantuan think [TS]

00:17:01   we better nip this in the bud because we [TS]

00:17:03   don't you know if you kept dragging it [TS]

00:17:05   out like were the first people who are [TS]

00:17:06   the first people like satisfying whereas [TS]

00:17:08   it now you just go snip nope actually [TS]

00:17:10   was Walter you know and then you don't [TS]

00:17:12   have to worry about this big backstory [TS]

00:17:14   of like early settlers on earth aliens [TS]

00:17:16   and you know whatever crazy thing you're [TS]

00:17:17   gonna come up with better to snippet of [TS]

00:17:19   course you still have the Watchers the [TS]

00:17:21   observers whatever right [TS]

00:17:22   floating that they're still they have so [TS]

00:17:24   much stuff that they can still go back [TS]

00:17:26   but I want to make I want to make a [TS]

00:17:28   reference because I don't John did you [TS]

00:17:30   ever read the city in the city [TS]

00:17:32   I tried to read it indeed not the guy I [TS]

00:17:36   three-quarters time I want to listen to [TS]

00:17:37   the podcast grounded for me [TS]

00:17:39   alright well what I think fascinating [TS]

00:17:40   about is I feel like I feel like the [TS]

00:17:42   issue it's very similar they are [TS]

00:17:44   essentially they seem like breach a [TS]

00:17:46   little bit right and in this idea of [TS]

00:17:48   these two parallel universes which in [TS]

00:17:50   the finale at least in that particular [TS]

00:17:52   point overlap i don't know i did struck [TS]

00:17:56   a chord in me sort of a sympathetic [TS]

00:17:58   chord in me for those those two that's [TS]

00:18:00   funny story I actually I thought of the [TS]

00:18:03   city in the city and we're talking about [TS]

00:18:04   discussed on the previous podcast China [TS]

00:18:07   Mieville novel award-winning novel the [TS]

00:18:10   city university I actually thought that [TS]

00:18:11   the end result of the final episode of [TS]

00:18:14   this season sets up almost that kind of [TS]

00:18:17   scenario except across universes where [TS]

00:18:20   in the city and the city the two cities [TS]

00:18:22   overlaid and there's the one building [TS]

00:18:25   that they can go in to transfer from one [TS]

00:18:27   to the other and write the two universes [TS]

00:18:29   are overlaid in this scenario and [TS]

00:18:33   Liberty Island basically the Statue of [TS]

00:18:35   Liberty is the one place where you can [TS]

00:18:36   connect from one universe to the other [TS]

00:18:38   so it presumably that's the the way that [TS]

00:18:41   they take this story next season is that [TS]

00:18:43   is that now is just an association [TS]

00:18:45   between right but people can go in and [TS]

00:18:47   out is the point right to their other [TS]

00:18:49   universes so presumably you could have [TS]

00:18:50   any number of kind of mixtures of people [TS]

00:18:53   going to one universe or another [TS]

00:18:55   universe because they're now the door is [TS]

00:18:57   open and anybody can step through [TS]

00:18:59   whereas before it was at supposedly kind [TS]

00:19:02   of but not really i need to transfer [TS]

00:19:05   found that to the other [TS]

00:19:06   I you know I have to admit from a [TS]

00:19:08   dramatic standpoint I I loved that [TS]

00:19:10   development just because I didn't see it [TS]

00:19:12   coming and when I I figured it out a [TS]

00:19:15   split second you know like before they [TS]

00:19:17   explained it and I just started cracking [TS]

00:19:20   up because I just thought like it [TS]

00:19:22   because they got that scene where [TS]

00:19:23   they're all like staring at each other [TS]

00:19:24   across the room and the way they cut it [TS]

00:19:27   i just like they did a great job because [TS]

00:19:28   I slowly you know they slowly sort of [TS]

00:19:30   sinks in like what just happened and [TS]

00:19:33   you're like oh my god this is going to [TS]

00:19:35   be you know this is going to change a [TS]

00:19:37   lot of things I was concerned with you [TS]

00:19:39   really how much about it will change [TS]

00:19:41   because you don't know if they're gonna [TS]

00:19:42   stick with it [TS]

00:19:43   this show is shown anything is that [TS]

00:19:44   whatever you think they're doing from [TS]

00:19:46   episode to episode the next episode they [TS]

00:19:48   can completely change their mind change [TS]

00:19:49   directly i don't think they could have I [TS]

00:19:51   don't think they can keep those two sets [TS]

00:19:53   of characters apart any further frankly [TS]

00:19:54   just because of the way that the [TS]

00:19:55   storylines were developing yeah i mean [TS]

00:19:57   they already have already killed one [TS]

00:19:58   whole set of them off but then said no [TS]

00:20:00   no rewind actually what we're doing here [TS]

00:20:02   is we're teaching the AC whose [TS]

00:20:04   envisioning this the lesson that will [TS]

00:20:06   prevent this for you know I mean they [TS]

00:20:08   just go in so many different directions [TS]

00:20:09   it with any time travel type thing right [TS]

00:20:11   at any point any set of characters can [TS]

00:20:14   be alive or dead that entire universe [TS]

00:20:15   was gone you know and and did a whole [TS]

00:20:17   show with that our universe gone but by [TS]

00:20:19   the end of that should've said no just [TS]

00:20:20   kidding it's actually to teach basic [TS]

00:20:22   lesson I go back home but it would solve [TS]

00:20:23   the over obvious was wasn't it though [TS]

00:20:25   that they weren't they were going to set [TS]

00:20:28   the rest of the show in the future there [TS]

00:20:30   was obviously yeah i know you never know [TS]

00:20:31   what I want to have another woman killed [TS]

00:20:33   the man characters but yes I think I'm [TS]

00:20:35   loop episode except from the other side [TS]

00:20:37   of it where you know they're gonna [TS]

00:20:38   figure out that they need to change [TS]

00:20:39   history and then they do I mean it was [TS]

00:20:41   sort of watching it slow and around so i [TS]

00:20:44   would say yes but in this show like for [TS]

00:20:46   example i saw i saw that they were gonna [TS]

00:20:48   do this overlap thing they would have to [TS]

00:20:49   meet and figure out how to resolve the [TS]

00:20:51   differences because that's the only that [TS]

00:20:52   it's clearly the way they were going but [TS]

00:20:54   then Pacey disappears I didn't see that [TS]

00:20:56   coming [TS]

00:20:56   no that was yeah I was a shocker the [TS]

00:20:58   idea that they've somehow change time [TS]

00:20:59   and some not longer certainly not only [TS]

00:21:02   made him disappear and never you know [TS]

00:21:04   like not be people are going nowhere to [TS]

00:21:06   go [TS]

00:21:06   everyone just forgot he existed yeah now [TS]

00:21:08   that was a challenge me a little bit [TS]

00:21:10   because i don't personally i don't know [TS]

00:21:12   whether the actors leaving the show [TS]

00:21:13   because and then the practical sense [TS]

00:21:14   that's what you need to know to know [TS]

00:21:16   where they're going to do with the [TS]

00:21:17   actors i understand this is the way you [TS]

00:21:18   get them off the show he's my [TS]

00:21:19   understanding show you know if he's not [TS]

00:21:21   leaving the show what I have to do what [TS]

00:21:23   I'm not looking forward to his next [TS]

00:21:25   season [TS]

00:21:26   like I like the idea of no one remembers [TS]

00:21:27   that existed but he's not leaving the [TS]

00:21:29   show we gotta deal with the whole season [TS]

00:21:30   of people going Pacey that name it means [TS]

00:21:33   something to me I remember remember [TS]

00:21:35   create loved him once and look if he [TS]

00:21:38   didn't exist he didn't exist right but [TS]

00:21:40   then they can't hold that line because [TS]

00:21:42   then you know where will he be he won't [TS]

00:21:44   be on the show anymore [TS]

00:21:45   well I assume the emotional touchy-feely [TS]

00:21:47   like well he didn't exist but the oven [TS]

00:21:49   doors and they still remember and that [TS]

00:21:51   BS bothers me [TS]

00:21:52   Mike Bryant my assumption you know just [TS]

00:21:55   based on my own feeling is that he's [TS]

00:21:57   going to become an observer basically or [TS]

00:21:59   somehow and doctors head with the [TS]

00:22:01   observers you guys got shaved huh [TS]

00:22:03   I is a pepper I'm with John in the sense [TS]

00:22:05   that I sort of dread the them stretching [TS]

00:22:07   that story out because quite frankly I [TS]

00:22:10   mean if they're not getting rid of them [TS]

00:22:12   and they're not [TS]

00:22:13   I you know it's a it's a fun plot twist [TS]

00:22:16   but if we spend eight episodes of people [TS]

00:22:18   gradually realizing that he actually did [TS]

00:22:20   exist that that sounds like death to me [TS]

00:22:23   I'd much rather than Brazil likely i [TS]

00:22:26   like the idea that he didn't ever exist [TS]

00:22:28   I that's that's good sci-fi to me that [TS]

00:22:30   he just blink and he's gone and he never [TS]

00:22:32   existed and you don't have like you [TS]

00:22:34   don't have these hints of like I seem to [TS]

00:22:36   remember no you don't remember because [TS]

00:22:37   he never use it that's the whole point [TS]

00:22:39   like that's that's committing to you [TS]

00:22:41   know but it doesn't make sense and I [TS]

00:22:43   think that's probably where they're [TS]

00:22:46   gonna go with it is that it doesn't [TS]

00:22:47   really make sense because the whole [TS]

00:22:48   reason that the two universes and the [TS]

00:22:50   one hand and the one has problems is [TS]

00:22:53   because of the of Walter coming over [TS]

00:22:55   across and saving his life and that they [TS]

00:22:57   couldn't let me have any of the numbers [TS]

00:22:59   if the observers like I like you could [TS]

00:23:02   you don't know where the observers [TS]

00:23:03   coming into this so you could make sense [TS]

00:23:04   of it by saying well he went back to get [TS]

00:23:06   a son but the observers knew that [TS]

00:23:07   clearly couldn't happen but one of them [TS]

00:23:09   had a soft spot so make him think he was [TS]

00:23:10   bringing him back and really peter is a [TS]

00:23:12   manufacturer the Peter they brought back [TS]

00:23:14   as a manufactured entity from the [TS]

00:23:15   observers to try to stitch up the [TS]

00:23:17   timelines and then I had exist you know [TS]

00:23:19   when he died and he died in both [TS]

00:23:21   universes but before they took him away [TS]

00:23:23   in fact they got so thorough they just [TS]

00:23:25   killed joshua jackson like you know what [TS]

00:23:27   this is really method acting reinstall [TS]

00:23:30   the tapes of dawson's creek [TS]

00:23:32   no no it was only on mr. a spacey and [TS]

00:23:34   then it looks very strange but it's like [TS]

00:23:36   Garfield Garfield huh yeah yeah but it's [TS]

00:23:40   you know it could be fun right i mean if [TS]

00:23:41   they do it right about the idea that one [TS]

00:23:43   of your main characters is just vanished [TS]

00:23:45   could could be fun i just i dreaded [TS]

00:23:47   getting dragged out [TS]

00:23:48   also we'll see i don't i don't like the [TS]

00:23:50   touchy-feely think he's gone are you [TS]

00:23:52   right on your right i don't want to see [TS]

00:23:54   him like I guess him in an internal [TS]

00:23:57   really person in this party is ok well i [TS]

00:24:00   really like pacing in a different [TS]

00:24:01   universe where he realizes that he's [TS]

00:24:03   been taken out of it [TS]

00:24:05   mine wants to get back and he has you [TS]

00:24:07   know ways where he's trying maybe he's [TS]

00:24:09   there may be using the third universe [TS]

00:24:11   with the other Walter trying to look I [TS]

00:24:13   can't explain the situation saying you [TS]

00:24:15   have to get me back to my universe and [TS]

00:24:16   they're constantly doing things that [TS]

00:24:17   affect the other universe and eventually [TS]

00:24:19   gets back you know that makes sense [TS]

00:24:22   plot-wise but in the fridge universe but [TS]

00:24:24   the the business where you you know they [TS]

00:24:28   did this with Olivia to like are you the [TS]

00:24:30   new Olivia the old one I seem to [TS]

00:24:31   remember there was this man right I [TS]

00:24:33   loved and you know that love conquers [TS]

00:24:35   all stuff the future scenario i thought [TS]

00:24:39   was I thought was fun [TS]

00:24:41   I i thought that it was obvious that we [TS]

00:24:42   were just kind of dwelling in it in [TS]

00:24:46   order to see the past get changed and I [TS]

00:24:48   thought it was a little weird that you [TS]

00:24:49   know peter is is his consciousness to [TS]

00:24:52   sort of taken forward but then he he [TS]

00:24:54   doesn't remember it's and which seemed [TS]

00:24:56   kind of inconsistent like they did that [TS]

00:24:58   so that we would see what was going on [TS]

00:25:00   but that's not actually what it was so I [TS]

00:25:02   thought that was kind of confusing but [TS]

00:25:03   it was interesting to see all right here [TS]

00:25:05   are the ramifications of this future we [TS]

00:25:07   destroyed the other universe which is [TS]

00:25:08   what you thought we were going to do [TS]

00:25:09   because you wouldn't destroy our [TS]

00:25:11   universe and it turns out everything is [TS]

00:25:13   bad so that's not the solution so we [TS]

00:25:16   have to go for some other wacky your [TS]

00:25:17   solution I you know I enjoyed venture go [TS]

00:25:20   back [TS]

00:25:20   yeah yeah we gonna do it again what they [TS]

00:25:23   did a great job with is the fact that [TS]

00:25:24   the whole the whole the future universe [TS]

00:25:28   feels very flushed out you know very [TS]

00:25:30   realized in terms of its its distinct [TS]

00:25:32   right from both universes it's kind of [TS]

00:25:34   got a little bit of both but at the same [TS]

00:25:36   time its own thing we get to see you [TS]

00:25:39   know Olivia to hire and basically like [TS]

00:25:41   Broyles job and we have to see her you [TS]

00:25:43   know nice as a as a rookie friend friend [TS]

00:25:45   agent because he Peter actually finally [TS]

00:25:47   gets to you know carry a gun and [TS]

00:25:48   everything and I don't know I felt like [TS]

00:25:50   a very it was a very sci-fi universe [TS]

00:25:52   which one to alter in jail that was just [TS]

00:25:55   there is no justice in that [TS]

00:25:56   guess I don't think as we it was never [TS]

00:25:59   clear no try it was clear why they were [TS]

00:26:02   saying he was in jail it was saying he [TS]

00:26:03   was in jail because it's like you did [TS]

00:26:04   this you know our universe is falling [TS]

00:26:06   apart it's basically your fault but of [TS]

00:26:08   all the like everything he's done has [TS]

00:26:09   been motivated in good ways meet say he [TS]

00:26:11   saved the universe effectively so many [TS]

00:26:13   different times you gonna blame him for [TS]

00:26:14   like well it's I've never tried to save [TS]

00:26:17   your son i think [TS]

00:26:18   they generally titles i think they [TS]

00:26:19   deliberately you know but despite the [TS]

00:26:22   fact that they just say she was put on [TS]

00:26:23   trial for that I think we're [TS]

00:26:25   deliberately missing piece of pieces of [TS]

00:26:26   that puzzle in the same way that you [TS]

00:26:29   know we're told that Broyles you know [TS]

00:26:30   lost his eye and Peter says alibaba you [TS]

00:26:33   know you remember Detroit like these are [TS]

00:26:35   things that are clearly you know were [TS]

00:26:37   deliberately left out and I mean I [TS]

00:26:38   really like Walter should be in jail and [TS]

00:26:40   their primary universe 20 times over for [TS]

00:26:42   the stuff that he's done unwilling [TS]

00:26:45   victims and to the universal never but [TS]

00:26:47   now he gets the pass and the Prime [TS]

00:26:48   universe but in the future university [TS]

00:26:50   hey wait a second is Walter is really [TS]

00:26:51   screwing stuff up for us put him in jail [TS]

00:26:53   my little better [TS]

00:26:55   meanwhile in a really nice twist the [TS]

00:26:58   wall tournament is the only survivor of [TS]

00:27:00   his universe and it's just wandering [TS]

00:27:02   around which you know on one level talk [TS]

00:27:04   about a guy who is a kind of a bad guy [TS]

00:27:06   but I guess everybody sympathetic to him [TS]

00:27:08   after we help people that they feel bad [TS]

00:27:11   for this horrible mass murderer was [TS]

00:27:12   trying to destroy the universe but [TS]

00:27:13   Walter isn't there [TS]

00:27:14   Walter's in jail but Walter it's ok we [TS]

00:27:16   feel bad for him we killed the whole [TS]

00:27:17   universe is like a pity freedom but i do [TS]

00:27:19   love the fact that the wall that wall [TS]

00:27:21   turn it is is wandering around and [TS]

00:27:23   plotting and thatthat's that I thought [TS]

00:27:26   that was a really nice touch that the [TS]

00:27:27   idea of of him without without the rest [TS]

00:27:30   of his universe because honestly I [TS]

00:27:32   thought going into the finale that what [TS]

00:27:35   we were going to get with something a [TS]

00:27:36   little more devastating like they would [TS]

00:27:38   you know they would blow up one of the [TS]

00:27:39   universe's but that would be kind of [TS]

00:27:41   missing pieces or extra people on one [TS]

00:27:43   side and so that we you know we have [TS]

00:27:46   some more of that kind of missing you [TS]

00:27:49   know or just miss matched pairs of of [TS]

00:27:52   people but instead they you know I I [TS]

00:27:55   think we were all sort of led to believe [TS]

00:27:57   it was one universe vs another right [TS]

00:27:59   that was the whole setup and so that [TS]

00:28:01   final episode services saying no no no [TS]

00:28:04   you can't do that because everybody dies [TS]

00:28:06   or we figure out a way to work together [TS]

00:28:09   which you know is a cool-looking to next [TS]

00:28:12   season i think is a a really cool idea [TS]

00:28:14   that there everybody does have to work [TS]

00:28:16   together and and the doors are wide open [TS]

00:28:18   and and both universes are experiencing [TS]

00:28:21   the strange effects and it gives them a [TS]

00:28:23   lot of room for for a different kind of [TS]

00:28:25   storytelling next season then they had [TS]

00:28:27   this season where we had the the [TS]

00:28:28   parallels going back and forth [TS]

00:28:30   I don't think they spend enough time [TS]

00:28:32   talking about are hinting at [TS]

00:28:34   I mean this is something like I don't [TS]

00:28:37   know maybe we could not be too [TS]

00:28:38   heavy-handed but talking about why it is [TS]

00:28:40   the people within a particular universe [TS]

00:28:41   feel an allegiance to that universe [TS]

00:28:43   because Peters the perfect foil for that [TS]

00:28:45   because he went over to the other one is [TS]

00:28:46   like this is my real dad but maybe I [TS]

00:28:48   care about these people and it's like [TS]

00:28:49   what bio it by what thing are you [TS]

00:28:52   choosing to care about the people in [TS]

00:28:54   your year it's like it's like liking [TS]

00:28:55   sports team that that's closest to the [TS]

00:28:56   place that you were born it's really [TS]

00:28:58   just arbitrary and then they do what are [TS]

00:29:00   you saying you wouldn't fight for our [TS]

00:29:01   universe John and I'm saying like you [TS]

00:29:03   know they do is Patriot Act stuff with [TS]

00:29:04   the police state and they do all sorts [TS]

00:29:06   of like you know subtle and [TS]

00:29:07   not-so-subtle political statements but [TS]

00:29:09   never did they question the premise that [TS]

00:29:10   well of course the people from this [TS]

00:29:12   universe want want to save the people [TS]

00:29:13   miss universe and hate the people in the [TS]

00:29:14   other universe and it's just it's such a [TS]

00:29:17   sort of you know unquestioning [TS]

00:29:19   xenophobia they really makes no sense [TS]

00:29:21   that they're literally the same people [TS]

00:29:23   and are many Americans actually from the [TS]

00:29:24   other universe but in this one you know [TS]

00:29:26   yeah i think it's i mean you know you [TS]

00:29:28   can you can viewed as a comment on [TS]

00:29:30   patriotism if you want you know if you [TS]

00:29:32   really feel like sometimes but they had [TS]

00:29:33   a member they'd never explored like you [TS]

00:29:35   never see the characters argument even [TS]

00:29:36   when Peter was trying to forward his [TS]

00:29:38   allegiances were and stuff they never [TS]

00:29:39   it's always like a person like which [TS]

00:29:40   Olivia do love more it but it's never [TS]

00:29:43   like why why do we not care about the [TS]

00:29:45   people that universe why are we trying [TS]

00:29:46   to save our universe at the cost of [TS]

00:29:48   there's no making my second i think [TS]

00:29:50   that's the that's get seems like kind of [TS]

00:29:52   a no-brainer to me I mean like I think [TS]

00:29:53   that's how people would act well yeah [TS]

00:29:54   but I don't really have a lot of people [TS]

00:29:56   knowing like maybe this other university [TS]

00:29:58   so bad guys I think that's what happened [TS]

00:30:01   over there and your mom's still alive [TS]

00:30:02   and you know your friends are basically [TS]

00:30:04   there maybe you have a they have better [TS]

00:30:06   jobs and you have like sorry but doctors [TS]

00:30:09   are still in Brooklyn know right exactly [TS]

00:30:11   you know well west wing close i wasn't [TS]

00:30:14   all your texts sucking in matter your [TS]

00:30:16   button [TS]

00:30:16   no I think the reason that they have the [TS]

00:30:18   wall turn it is to set up a villain who [TS]

00:30:20   is sort of ruthlessly committed to [TS]

00:30:23   having their universe win and destroy [TS]

00:30:25   our universe to kind of offset some of [TS]

00:30:27   those questions and one minute more is [TS]

00:30:29   like like he's upset because someone [TS]

00:30:32   stole his son that's his origin story [TS]

00:30:33   right but it's just him and turned him [TS]

00:30:36   into this you know kind of power mad mad [TS]

00:30:38   museum easy that you can say is the [TS]

00:30:40   Emperor [TS]

00:30:42   he's got a little hologram you didn't [TS]

00:30:43   have the house come on but it's not [TS]

00:30:45   flickering blue so he's much better [TS]

00:30:47   hologram technology that doesn't have [TS]

00:30:48   much better hologram technology talk [TS]

00:30:50   about Star Wars sometime but not this [TS]

00:30:51   podcast on know the the I'm hoping that [TS]

00:30:55   next season will get a little more of [TS]

00:30:56   that where they're forced to work [TS]

00:30:58   together and therefore forced to perhaps [TS]

00:30:59   recognize that you know the universes [TS]

00:31:02   are different and and not one superior [TS]

00:31:06   to the other and that you know since [TS]

00:31:07   they're kind of tied together that's the [TS]

00:31:09   whole premise is it's not you can't just [TS]

00:31:11   destroy one and let the other live they [TS]

00:31:13   both have to find a way to survive which [TS]

00:31:15   is cool because that that turns that [TS]

00:31:17   story on its head although my wife kept [TS]

00:31:19   on repeating a line from i believe it's [TS]

00:31:22   Stargate where there's a parallel [TS]

00:31:24   universe episode and Teal'c says at one [TS]

00:31:26   point our universe is the only one of [TS]

00:31:28   consequence as he's like mowing down [TS]

00:31:30   parallel force in some people that [TS]

00:31:32   there's something to be said for that [TS]

00:31:33   that just pure sophisms like really i [TS]

00:31:36   don't i don't care about these other [TS]

00:31:37   parallel universe whatever it's mine i [TS]

00:31:40   want my universe to survive but the [TS]

00:31:42   other way what does it actually makes me [TS]

00:31:44   a little over there [TS]

00:31:45   yeah absolutely but I it that sort of [TS]

00:31:47   shortsightedness strikes me I just [TS]

00:31:49   totally realistic like people would just [TS]

00:31:51   yet people would just be like I don't [TS]

00:31:53   know those people that's like a toilet [TS]

00:31:55   yeah looks like you're ready with a [TS]

00:31:56   relative space a little they look like [TS]

00:31:59   me but that I don't know them you know [TS]

00:32:00   anybody but you think the the regular [TS]

00:32:03   people can be said about the protagonist [TS]

00:32:04   in the show are constantly dealing with [TS]

00:32:06   this alternate like they're they are the [TS]

00:32:08   people dealing with this problem [TS]

00:32:10   absolutely unacceptable too weird even [TS]

00:32:12   for us right well Pacey like I said [TS]

00:32:15   paces from the other universe and yet [TS]

00:32:17   he's chosen this other one to fight for [TS]

00:32:19   and why don't they say like hey you know [TS]

00:32:20   we're gonna kill everybody in supposedly [TS]

00:32:22   your universe but you seems like this [TS]

00:32:24   one is it because just because you grew [TS]

00:32:25   up here or you were here since you were [TS]

00:32:27   like it's basically two runners move to [TS]

00:32:29   move to the west coast when I was a kid [TS]

00:32:31   and that's why i like the giants and its [TS]

00:32:33   nature nature versus nurture jump so [TS]

00:32:35   when it comes down to one of the things [TS]

00:32:36   about the show that has always [TS]

00:32:38   fascinated me and we got a lot more of [TS]

00:32:39   that this season but it started last [TS]

00:32:43   season as well is is the fact that at [TS]

00:32:46   its core this show's premise that the [TS]

00:32:50   most important thing about this show is [TS]

00:32:53   this very [TS]

00:32:54   sad story about parents losing a child [TS]

00:32:58   and that and I really love this about [TS]

00:33:02   the show that the entire universe two [TS]

00:33:04   universes are put in just his in [TS]

00:33:08   existential peril because a guy wanted [TS]

00:33:12   to save his son and a particularly nice [TS]

00:33:15   guy too that's the best part [TS]

00:33:16   Walter was not not a you know like I [TS]

00:33:19   love guys could write he was he was [TS]

00:33:20   doing horrible things to children [TS]

00:33:22   yes he was experimenting with this [TS]

00:33:24   through his refusal to let his own son [TS]

00:33:26   go you know like his whole he has a good [TS]

00:33:28   character arc on it is you know I i like [TS]

00:33:30   most of the characters in the show [TS]

00:33:31   because the evil guy is kind of easily [TS]

00:33:33   good reason and the good guy Walter was [TS]

00:33:35   not really so good [TS]

00:33:36   most of his life right right it has a [TS]

00:33:39   sort of remove parts of his brain hurt [TS]

00:33:42   just different charities castrated [TS]

00:33:44   himself Natalie yeah but i just i love [TS]

00:33:46   that score I mean that the beauty of the [TS]

00:33:49   the whole pier Walter's relationship and [TS]

00:33:52   in the last episode we saw that where he [TS]

00:33:53   refers to Walter as his dad but refers [TS]

00:33:57   to alternate as his father [TS]

00:33:59   uh-huh which I thought was really a nice [TS]

00:34:02   way to to handle that is that you know [TS]

00:34:05   he's in this position because Walter [TS]

00:34:09   couldn't save his own son but realized [TS]

00:34:11   he could save the other one and you know [TS]

00:34:13   messed everything up but it came from [TS]

00:34:15   this you know essentially an act of love [TS]

00:34:17   at it had been a very sad situation but [TS]

00:34:20   also a supreme active of arrogance right [TS]

00:34:22   that you know I can happening [TS]

00:34:24   yeah yeah it wasn't like it raised [TS]

00:34:26   wonder the guy from the universe he [TS]

00:34:28   doesn't mind he's not other universe [TS]

00:34:29   prejudice we got a couple the word for [TS]

00:34:31   that Universal isn't universalist [TS]

00:34:35   universalist that's right now he's got [TS]

00:34:39   no choice he lost his peter is like well [TS]

00:34:41   I'll take the second-best you know [TS]

00:34:42   that's the joke and in futurama i love [TS]

00:34:44   which is that they come to the edge of [TS]

00:34:45   the University the parallel universe [TS]

00:34:47   where they're all wearing cowboy hats [TS]

00:34:48   and they say will call your universe [TS]

00:34:51   universe one [TS]

00:34:51   well we'll call our universe universe a [TS]

00:34:53   everybody likes their own universe the [TS]

00:34:57   best come on it's just the way it works [TS]

00:34:59   then that will be even the scenario next [TS]

00:35:01   season i guess which will prepare for [TS]

00:35:04   lots of you know split screen shots and [TS]

00:35:06   stunt doubles [TS]

00:35:08   if it wasn't long enough they will have [TS]

00:35:11   to eventually have like the big reveal [TS]

00:35:12   at the end of some season like nine [TS]

00:35:14   hundred different universes where [TS]

00:35:15   everyone has subtly different facial [TS]

00:35:16   hair right i mean like that that's the [TS]

00:35:18   one thing that always kind of bothered [TS]

00:35:19   me about this show is what is the [TS]

00:35:21   rationale for two universes I I assume [TS]

00:35:24   there's an answer it doesn't make sense [TS]

00:35:25   if you think about it we went over this [TS]

00:35:26   last data is deleted [TS]

00:35:28   yeah I can't let that kind of blows me [TS]

00:35:31   away was like I try not to think about [TS]

00:35:32   it you're you know there is why are [TS]

00:35:34   there only they have well I'm just [TS]

00:35:36   saying well that there might only be too [TS]

00:35:37   because they're linked because the one [TS]

00:35:39   that that that Walter burst through to [TS]

00:35:41   is this other version and that now [TS]

00:35:43   they're kind of stuck together but just [TS]

00:35:45   all the other ones have like they're all [TS]

00:35:48   like other the infinite number of [TS]

00:35:49   universes all just have dinosaurs in [TS]

00:35:50   them that's all these are the only two [TS]

00:35:52   with humans [TS]

00:35:53   well the fact that these two were like [TS]

00:35:54   identical you know identical except for [TS]

00:35:56   the Zeppelin's on the day they were [TS]

00:35:58   linked together is the ridiculous bit [TS]

00:35:59   you know that that they're they're [TS]

00:36:01   obviously different ways you can before [TS]

00:36:03   there was a whole burst through and now [TS]

00:36:05   it just it's a TV yeah it is yeah but i [TS]

00:36:08   guess i think between anyway and they [TS]

00:36:10   may actually tell the story at some [TS]

00:36:11   point about you know what was the [TS]

00:36:12   divergence pointer why is it like this [TS]

00:36:14   or they may just say you know let's just [TS]

00:36:16   say there are 2i I think somebody's [TS]

00:36:18   they're gonna I mean they're like [TS]

00:36:20   Battlestar it's all going to be God the [TS]

00:36:23   parent process or those sorry that we [TS]

00:36:25   always want to call them watchers there [TS]

00:36:27   the watchers from Marvel Comics made [TS]

00:36:29   into TV characters right observe the [TS]

00:36:31   difference between observing and [TS]

00:36:33   watching and it is who watches the [TS]

00:36:34   watchmen but who observe is the [TS]

00:36:36   observers right because in the Marvel [TS]

00:36:38   Comics is the bald guy who lives on the [TS]

00:36:39   moon and he watches what happens in [TS]

00:36:41   record and and occasionally will [TS]

00:36:43   interfere [TS]

00:36:44   even though he's not supposed to and [TS]

00:36:46   those bald guys are don't lift [TS]

00:36:49   well maybe they do live on the moon i [TS]

00:36:50   don't know where they live but that's [TS]

00:36:51   the observers infringed they're clearly [TS]

00:36:53   Starfleet officers violating the primary [TS]

00:36:56   so so well more seriously dead [TS]

00:36:59   hey the I don't use here by the way the [TS]

00:37:02   Star Trek thing you're very confusing [TS]

00:37:04   you you referred to the evil Captain [TS]

00:37:05   Kirk earlier and most people think of [TS]

00:37:07   the parallel universe episode of ER [TS]

00:37:08   stock but there was a naval captain kirk [TS]

00:37:11   in that episode well except i was [TS]

00:37:12   thinking about the one with the [TS]

00:37:13   transporter accident where he gets [TS]

00:37:15   loaded i was i was going to take it you [TS]

00:37:16   know kill us both Spock alright good i [TS]

00:37:18   just wanted to clarify that that that [TS]

00:37:20   you were [TS]

00:37:20   right now what I'm talking to the enemy [TS]

00:37:22   within not mirror mirror it's very [TS]

00:37:24   important distinction there [TS]

00:37:25   thank you i'm on this podcast don't like [TS]

00:37:29   Julian if you're not a nerd [TS]

00:37:30   I wasn't evil spy don't the a-10 a [TS]

00:37:33   dormir goatee we really have to go once [TS]

00:37:36   you have to go to your evil [TS]

00:37:37   yeah that's a definitive goatee that's [TS]

00:37:40   why i use that I used to have a goatee i [TS]

00:37:42   get rid of it so I view you don't know [TS]

00:37:45   which one I am now [TS]

00:37:46   yes the alternate universe denmark and [TS]

00:37:49   replaced and he a good one [TS]

00:37:51   yep that's right both of those right [TS]

00:37:53   yeah actually the the evil one is in [TS]

00:37:56   your attic now I don't have an addict [TS]

00:37:58   but yes they have primer connection from [TS]

00:38:00   the last episode you [TS]

00:38:02   yes I can't believe I didn't get to be [TS]

00:38:04   on that one so disappointing [TS]

00:38:06   sorry it's because it was all I've can't [TS]

00:38:09   live in California yes you have to come [TS]

00:38:10   to California for that sorry [TS]

00:38:12   giggling was upset about it was like why [TS]

00:38:14   didn't i get my email it's like you know [TS]

00:38:16   we were just all have to be in the room [TS]

00:38:18   in the room so yeah sad [TS]

00:38:20   we're now I I lost track there was [TS]

00:38:23   something about what were we talking [TS]

00:38:24   about sorry you were saying range [TS]

00:38:26   something about friends next season the [TS]

00:38:29   universe all versions this is that you [TS]

00:38:33   talked about to eat why there were just [TS]

00:38:34   two of them and they were linked [TS]

00:38:36   oh yeah okay so I I got it so more [TS]

00:38:39   seriously though about the about the [TS]

00:38:41   observers are we going with this because [TS]

00:38:45   they keep they keep being in a little [TS]

00:38:47   tiny bit and saying kind of maddening [TS]

00:38:49   things and and at first i thought the [TS]

00:38:52   show is going to be about the observers [TS]

00:38:53   because they kind of appeared first and [TS]

00:38:57   now we've got this whole complexity of [TS]

00:38:59   these parallel universes and now i have [TS]

00:39:00   no idea what they're planning with more [TS]

00:39:02   a statue is yeah we're totes statue [TS]

00:39:05   all right you're right i shot early [TS]

00:39:07   early on and it's the one thread they [TS]

00:39:09   refuse to really pick up or step off and [TS]

00:39:12   it's just you got always have something [TS]

00:39:13   in reserve and since they're so vague [TS]

00:39:15   you can really make up anything you want [TS]

00:39:17   as their explanation at any point in a [TS]

00:39:20   timeline and not be inconsistent for [TS]

00:39:22   total expenditure was a lot later and [TS]

00:39:24   lost but but I'm season 2 wasn't [TS]

00:39:27   the idea was the last episode is a [TS]

00:39:30   decision one [TS]

00:39:31   no no last episode of season two yeah [TS]

00:39:34   seems like pretty early because you're [TS]

00:39:36   just like so that was my favorite part [TS]

00:39:39   of Los was that foretold statue and then [TS]

00:39:41   just John that said he there what else [TS]

00:39:46   might I thought was that reveal the best [TS]

00:39:48   reveal ever [TS]

00:39:50   yeah why doesn't have four toes no [TS]

00:39:53   reason I got this show is called last [TS]

00:39:56   bowl that was highest that was either [TS]

00:39:58   they could count so I guess again I [TS]

00:40:00   guess it would be pointless so they [TS]

00:40:01   could make it up I just I I wonder where [TS]

00:40:03   they're going with it because they do [TS]

00:40:04   seem to be like the are they like what [TS]

00:40:06   they see the poor lighting vs or [TS]

00:40:07   something [TS]

00:40:08   yeah well I mean they had something like [TS]

00:40:10   maintaining the timeline right like they [TS]

00:40:12   seem to have a problem is that episode [TS]

00:40:14   where she'll save the girl right the one [TS]

00:40:16   of the guys save the girl who was before [TS]

00:40:17   trying to save the girl was supposed to [TS]

00:40:18   be on the plane or whatever right i mean [TS]

00:40:20   that we keep getting these glimpses I [TS]

00:40:22   mean I still think back to that first [TS]

00:40:23   one of those first scenes where there's [TS]

00:40:26   a scene within their see more like Peter [TS]

00:40:27   like meets one in the woods and he [TS]

00:40:29   starts doing that you they do the the [TS]

00:40:31   rip-off from the doctor who episode [TS]

00:40:32   where he starts repeating him and then [TS]

00:40:34   he started saying I'm saying like what [TS]

00:40:35   he's saying before he says it so when I [TS]

00:40:38   never understood the point that what is [TS]

00:40:40   it then maybe the day showing that they [TS]

00:40:42   know they know the future and the past [TS]

00:40:44   and the present but there's obviously [TS]

00:40:45   squabble but you could've just said i [TS]

00:40:47   clearly can just have a normal [TS]

00:40:48   conversation we see that happen another [TS]

00:40:50   episode they have been traveling so [TS]

00:40:52   maybe by introducing the time travel [TS]

00:40:53   thing in this last episode that's what [TS]

00:40:55   that's where the observers come in is [TS]

00:40:57   that they're not as concerned about the [TS]

00:40:58   parallels as they are about that the [TS]

00:41:00   like messing up the timelines maybe to [TS]

00:41:03   observe have we ever seen an observer in [TS]

00:41:06   the alternate universe that I don't know [TS]

00:41:11   stomping well and they have here the [TS]

00:41:13   thing is you gotta keep you know that I [TS]

00:41:14   think there's probably a PDF page that [TS]

00:41:16   will answer this question there are but [TS]

00:41:17   they appear in a lot of different [TS]

00:41:18   episodes in the background [TS]

00:41:20   yeah i think it's french television com [TS]

00:41:23   has a whole page that is the observer [TS]

00:41:26   sightings to yeah but wouldn't it be [TS]

00:41:27   interesting if they never were in the [TS]

00:41:29   alternate universe [TS]

00:41:30   what would that say I don't know you [TS]

00:41:32   want the writing staff of fringe dan [TS]

00:41:33   you're confusing me we're here I'm [TS]

00:41:35   looking for I'm looking for suggestions [TS]

00:41:37   that's a maybe there's a whiz [TS]

00:41:41   word for anyone actually who has never [TS]

00:41:44   seen the absolutely brilliant [TS]

00:41:46   there's a youtube video about the [TS]

00:41:47   writers room of lost which just starts [TS]

00:41:50   with them say we are so screwed me up [TS]

00:41:53   trying to come up with all these [TS]

00:41:54   different answers for things [TS]

00:41:55   what if there's a wizard I don't like [TS]

00:41:57   wizard what if there's a witch [TS]

00:41:59   it's pretty the observer i think is in [TS]

00:42:06   the parallel universe to are you [TS]

00:42:10   checking this i am looking checking i'm [TS]

00:42:12   looking right now I don't know I mean [TS]

00:42:15   that would seem to me to be a deliberate [TS]

00:42:16   choice at that point right if the [TS]

00:42:17   observers never never appeared there and [TS]

00:42:19   then that seems like there would be a [TS]

00:42:20   point to that but are you too may be the [TS]

00:42:23   only way of consequence [TS]

00:42:24   well I feel like what it have to be a [TS]

00:42:26   point because they haven't really [TS]

00:42:27   decided to only have decided that these [TS]

00:42:29   guys are not like all-powerful [TS]

00:42:32   all-knowing because they do argue with [TS]

00:42:34   each other and there are like black [TS]

00:42:35   sheep among the observers doing things [TS]

00:42:37   I'm not supposed to be doing and getting [TS]

00:42:38   yelled at by the other observers and [TS]

00:42:40   having to fix their mistakes and arguing [TS]

00:42:41   about what the best course but they're [TS]

00:42:43   all working towards some sort of goal [TS]

00:42:44   which is for things to turn out the way [TS]

00:42:47   the observers think they should internet [TS]

00:42:49   they're all snappy dressers [TS]

00:42:50   yes they're all exactly the same the you [TS]

00:42:53   know it have we seen the fringe of the [TS]

00:42:54   writers because it all the French [TS]

00:42:56   writers may be bald and this may be a [TS]

00:42:58   different writers on the chosen know [TS]

00:43:00   this area on this direction that we're [TS]

00:43:02   doing running over the writers for the [TS]

00:43:04   Reds got it got dark dark tower at the [TS]

00:43:07   end there again with the family with the [TS]

00:43:09   observer thing being the Marvel Comics [TS]

00:43:12   watcher is that member in the Marvel [TS]

00:43:14   Comics the one who is assigned to the [TS]

00:43:16   earth is breaks the rules and is looked [TS]

00:43:20   down upon by his his a appears and the [TS]

00:43:24   guy who's Walters palette we see the [TS]

00:43:26   main observer does the exact same thing [TS]

00:43:29   so right he saves them from crashing is [TS]

00:43:32   waiting for a big eraser to come and you [TS]

00:43:33   know started racing characters Daffy [TS]

00:43:35   Duck style you know [TS]

00:43:36   well if they could take that Animated [TS]

00:43:39   episode do a sequel to that meant that [TS]

00:43:40   letter be more it could be erased some [TS]

00:43:42   point we just have it only ends up with [TS]

00:43:45   there being one person left this is all [TS]

00:43:46   inside Walters head in his hands silent [TS]

00:43:48   boom no known issues but it cuts to pay [TS]

00:43:51   see in an all-white universe and [TS]

00:43:54   constitution in all my office all week [TS]

00:43:56   no he's all myself because nobody else [TS]

00:43:59   exists in the university's just been [TS]

00:44:00   parked there and he he begins to act out [TS]

00:44:02   episode of Dawson's if they would if [TS]

00:44:04   they were just a nobody from his desk [TS]

00:44:06   and Austin's creek and this is all a [TS]

00:44:07   dream as you know yet exactly its new [TS]

00:44:09   heart is the second Newhart suit yes [TS]

00:44:11   Katie Holmes next I'm saying that would [TS]

00:44:13   be hilarious fall asleep again BAC maybe [TS]

00:44:16   get people really really angry but [TS]

00:44:18   hilarious you fall asleep again Peter I [TS]

00:44:21   mean Pacey whatever what do you think [TS]

00:44:24   they can go with this with this series [TS]

00:44:26   in terms of like as the show goes on [TS]

00:44:28   like at least lost their on an island [TS]

00:44:31   presumably the the resolution will be [TS]

00:44:33   having something to do with them getting [TS]

00:44:34   off the island everybody got a bit [TS]

00:44:36   better like season for the central [TS]

00:44:38   conflict in the direction you can go and [TS]

00:44:40   but this show this you know if you say [TS]

00:44:44   well with the direction is one universe [TS]

00:44:45   has to win like there's no there's no [TS]

00:44:47   natural ending to the story even the [TS]

00:44:49   x-files had a more natural ending [TS]

00:44:51   because it was like what happened to his [TS]

00:44:52   sister and other aliens yes or no like [TS]

00:44:54   there was some sort of its central [TS]

00:44:55   question but the show is more about we [TS]

00:44:57   set up some characters and situations [TS]

00:44:59   but there's no overall goal [TS]

00:45:02   no I think every season they give it [TS]

00:45:03   like a mini goal but there's no like big [TS]

00:45:05   big our goal right it seems like the big [TS]

00:45:07   our goal is that that but at least now [TS]

00:45:10   is both universes survive instead of one [TS]

00:45:13   universe fights for survival [TS]

00:45:14   it's both universes survive and I could [TS]

00:45:17   see the end of the show playing out as [TS]

00:45:20   being essentially you know they split [TS]

00:45:22   the universe's apart and solve whatever [TS]

00:45:25   everything's all patched up yeah either [TS]

00:45:27   that or there's a sort of a terrible [TS]

00:45:29   price to pay where they do end up [TS]

00:45:30   merging them together in order to save [TS]

00:45:32   them and half of the people have to die [TS]

00:45:33   in order to make that happen or [TS]

00:45:36   something which is very happy with [TS]

00:45:37   always living together [TS]

00:45:38   i I don't know but you know I i could [TS]

00:45:40   see that there are some directions there [TS]

00:45:42   I i wager I would major heavily on the [TS]

00:45:45   existence of of other parallel personals [TS]

00:45:48   before the end of the show I i was [TS]

00:45:51   saying if it goes on if it goes on [TS]

00:45:53   longer like if you're a writer on the [TS]

00:45:54   show like you don't know how many more [TS]

00:45:55   seasons you've got so you have but you [TS]

00:45:57   have to plan for something like you have [TS]

00:45:59   a plan to get the plan to work towards [TS]

00:46:00   something I lost for example was castle [TS]

00:46:02   after the second season like well we [TS]

00:46:04   were working towards getting off the [TS]

00:46:05   island but we did [TS]

00:46:05   not enough time so it's clear what [TS]

00:46:07   you're trying to do but you didn't make [TS]

00:46:08   it but this is like every season you [TS]

00:46:11   know if the if the goal really is this [TS]

00:46:12   kind of tepid you know universal screwed [TS]

00:46:14   up in episode one of fringe you know [TS]

00:46:17   it's already screwed up and the goal the [TS]

00:46:18   series is to put band-aids over all the [TS]

00:46:20   holes and make university without holes [TS]

00:46:21   in them so that it's like it's like [TS]

00:46:22   normal like that's the goal is to get [TS]

00:46:24   back to normalcy [TS]

00:46:25   that's the end of the series but it dies [TS]

00:46:27   of boredom it's like well we've we've [TS]

00:46:28   cleared up all the universe whole so [TS]

00:46:30   we're sure not going to have any more of [TS]

00:46:31   these crazy fringe cases well not and [TS]

00:46:33   not if they have to do that you know [TS]

00:46:35   what some sort of horrible price and [TS]

00:46:36   there's some you know interesting [TS]

00:46:37   character things that may be but if [TS]

00:46:39   you're gonna do the horrible price thing [TS]

00:46:40   you have to know like okay this is gonna [TS]

00:46:42   be your last season guys so write an [TS]

00:46:44   entire season with the stuff to resolve [TS]

00:46:46   the storyline hopefully though though [TS]

00:46:48   actually give them a heads up in my case [TS]

00:46:50   it happens from time to time but i mean [TS]

00:46:51   i see i mean i can picture and ending [TS]

00:46:54   where they patch these two universes up [TS]

00:46:56   and then they like pan out there's like [TS]

00:46:57   a gazillion more university blow a hole [TS]

00:47:00   in the universe or or maybe going on [TS]

00:47:03   maybe the observers bosses is it the [TS]

00:47:06   boss is actually like uber Walter from [TS]

00:47:08   the future of some other parallel [TS]

00:47:10   universe who's decided that he has to [TS]

00:47:12   take control of all the all the parallel [TS]

00:47:15   universes to save them from themselves [TS]

00:47:16   in the last year I want to shave their [TS]

00:47:18   heads because of ice at the elements the [TS]

00:47:23   lice the world trying to avoid that all [TS]

00:47:25   the observers have gone back like man [TS]

00:47:27   whose life thing that really sucks we [TS]

00:47:28   gotta try to stop John we're not that [TS]

00:47:30   that's not that's not true because they [TS]

00:47:32   have hats is known as well might have my [TS]

00:47:36   supper at the end observers will fall [TS]

00:47:39   into a pit of lava alien birthday [TS]

00:47:41   stomach [TS]

00:47:43   alright but i would watch that show [TS]

00:47:45   that's awesome that's alien 3 [TS]

00:47:48   come on oh I know I know I hate that [TS]

00:47:51   movie we don't have any news yet yet we [TS]

00:47:55   have yet to have more even showed your [TS]

00:47:56   robots more robots robots on fringe [TS]

00:48:00   yeah well massive dynamic right i mean [TS]

00:48:02   they're supposed to be at the robot when [TS]

00:48:04   they built a robot in terms of mr. [TS]

00:48:05   dynamic is like what do they do you make [TS]

00:48:08   money they have a real crazy stuff man [TS]

00:48:12   every patent for everything they're like [TS]

00:48:13   Microsoft and Google and Apple and [TS]

00:48:16   everybody else all put together and they [TS]

00:48:17   only get one [TS]

00:48:18   I'm really nice building in Manhattan [TS]

00:48:21   yeah they had a lab they have every [TS]

00:48:23   patent on every technology ever because [TS]

00:48:25   they invented them all in the seventies [TS]

00:48:27   yeah you want to you want to build soul [TS]

00:48:28   magnets tough they've got to have the [TS]

00:48:31   soul magnets oh so it's Halliburton plus [TS]

00:48:33   aperture science [TS]

00:48:34   yeah it's essentially it no but if you [TS]

00:48:37   think back to them not really having is [TS]

00:48:38   clear plan the first season it was [TS]

00:48:40   definitely setup is being that that [TS]

00:48:42   massive dynamic was this this big you [TS]

00:48:45   know enemy and they were the behind [TS]

00:48:47   these mysterious things and then it [TS]

00:48:48   turned out o know that it's just the [TS]

00:48:51   guy's a buddy Walters and they invented [TS]

00:48:52   lots of stuff that wasn't weird like [TS]

00:48:55   they agree that such a strange decision [TS]

00:48:57   because they were clearly set up as [TS]

00:48:58   antagonistic Walter own so that they [TS]

00:49:00   they needed to keep going to them for [TS]

00:49:02   other ways he reminds me kind of like a [TS]

00:49:03   Wolfram and Hart in angel you got the [TS]

00:49:05   evil science people want you to [TS]

00:49:08   free-to-play this direction though they [TS]

00:49:10   love to you know set up something it [TS]

00:49:11   could be a perfectly valid conflict but [TS]

00:49:13   then resolved over the physical and [TS]

00:49:15   decide haha we fooled you that was [TS]

00:49:17   actually misdirect really this is [TS]

00:49:18   another thing which is also interesting [TS]

00:49:19   and then your offer anything else right [TS]

00:49:21   which I like the baby stupid mommy's [TS]

00:49:23   baby like a no baby anytime you have [TS]

00:49:25   babies and he shows a big deal now they [TS]

00:49:26   just want to grow real fast we could [TS]

00:49:28   activate the machine we can see that [TS]

00:49:29   baby again i'm assuming we are but it's [TS]

00:49:31   like you know it's not that big of a [TS]

00:49:34   deal and i love that baby that that's [TS]

00:49:36   the best handling of a fake pregnancy in [TS]

00:49:39   a TV show ever [TS]

00:49:40   where she's pregnant yet one episode [TS]

00:49:43   yeah just usually but they don't have to [TS]

00:49:47   sir that's how long it takes a baby to [TS]

00:49:50   be born in the alternate universe for 42 [TS]

00:49:53   minutes [TS]

00:49:53   well they have to do some magical like [TS]

00:49:56   you know now [TS]

00:49:57   nope nope 42min magical intervention [TS]

00:49:59   division time people in the alternate [TS]

00:50:01   universe seemed to have lots of flexible [TS]

00:50:03   morals not just Walternate but all these [TS]

00:50:04   helpers or whatever it's like yeah [TS]

00:50:06   terrible kidnap your i love i have to [TS]

00:50:08   say that one my favorite i love the [TS]

00:50:10   science guy in the ultimate evil because [TS]

00:50:14   he's I nobody such a dork in our [TS]

00:50:16   universe which is it just cracks me up [TS]

00:50:18   he's like this totally unassuming nerd [TS]

00:50:20   in our universities like this deeply [TS]

00:50:21   sinister cited in the other one but he's [TS]

00:50:24   an unassuming here in the other universe [TS]

00:50:25   to he's just has he's asked to do more [TS]

00:50:27   interesting things i think if you took [TS]

00:50:28   the nerd in our universe and ask them to [TS]

00:50:30   the same things you like okay [TS]

00:50:31   well not just do it for the science in [TS]

00:50:33   whatever I think about that we'll see [TS]

00:50:34   about these two universes are providing [TS]

00:50:36   great control experiments for each other [TS]

00:50:39   not to get into too you know deep into [TS]

00:50:41   the analysis here but something that was [TS]

00:50:43   brought up earlier as the idea that you [TS]

00:50:45   could view what happens in that parallel [TS]

00:50:48   universe as being you know entirely [TS]

00:50:51   about how we can given a different set [TS]

00:50:54   of circumstances we could go down on a [TS]

00:50:56   much darker path right and so the phone [TS]

00:50:59   olivia is she's different and she's [TS]

00:51:02   darker and she has no problem with [TS]

00:51:04   killing people in our universe when she [TS]

00:51:06   crosses over and we've got this [TS]

00:51:07   perfectly nice scientist guy who is like [TS]

00:51:10   a you know it like dr. Mengele and he [TS]

00:51:13   alternate universe we have alternate we [TS]

00:51:15   saw how he behaves and and there's a [TS]

00:51:18   police state and you know I is hard to [TS]

00:51:20   believe there's nothing commentary and I [TS]

00:51:22   guess I feel like in some of its it's [TS]

00:51:24   just that they the circumstances are so [TS]

00:51:26   much more height and they're like [TS]

00:51:27   they've been dealing with all these [TS]

00:51:28   holes in the universe like 20 years now [TS]

00:51:30   and there's just I think they're very [TS]

00:51:32   much more endeared to that maybe that's [TS]

00:51:34   just had a a you know rubbed off on [TS]

00:51:37   there right there what they're willing [TS]

00:51:38   to do especially because you consider we [TS]

00:51:39   are seeing these like this is very [TS]

00:51:41   extreme right this is the whole idea i [TS]

00:51:44   agree i thought you know you know [TS]

00:51:45   there's a terrorist bombing somewhere [TS]

00:51:47   and immediately everybody lines up to [TS]

00:51:49   get rid of their of their rights in [TS]

00:51:53   exchange for some security or a feeling [TS]

00:51:55   of security right i mean that we've seen [TS]

00:51:57   that ourselves in our in our own country [TS]

00:52:00   not to get too political about it but I [TS]

00:52:02   mean it's clear that that happens then [TS]

00:52:03   societies are placed under stress and [TS]

00:52:06   sometimes the way they react as may be [TS]

00:52:08   made [TS]

00:52:09   maybe based more out of fear than logic [TS]

00:52:11   and it's got to be part of what they're [TS]

00:52:13   saying about this alternate universe i [TS]

00:52:16   do enjoy that they they make you know [TS]

00:52:19   despite the fact that was John says they [TS]

00:52:20   like to misdirect and then we've seen a [TS]

00:52:21   lot of stuff changed i do enjoy wasn't a [TS]

00:52:23   recent episode where they referenced [TS]

00:52:25   like the second or third episode of the [TS]

00:52:27   show [TS]

00:52:28   oh yeah they talked about the bus we [TS]

00:52:30   have with the with the amber how they [TS]

00:52:32   get their own pattern [TS]

00:52:33   yeah well i mean i think that was that [TS]

00:52:35   was kind of interesting call back to [TS]

00:52:37   something like hey you thought we forgot [TS]

00:52:38   about this [TS]

00:52:39   nope totally got it covered well isn't [TS]

00:52:40   it i think the family itself isn't my [TS]

00:52:44   favorite silly [TS]

00:52:45   elements and on the show because like if [TS]

00:52:47   you're gonna if you get a repair like [TS]

00:52:49   holes in space time they decided to go [TS]

00:52:52   with the is like it's practically a [TS]

00:52:54   culinary solution that's that's like [TS]

00:52:57   like an insect product or some sort of [TS]

00:52:59   google instead of doing like the [TS]

00:53:01   scientific superwomen the University [TS]

00:53:04   thank you for being around group right [TS]

00:53:07   we have brown goop really is what we use [TS]

00:53:08   the best thing for really it's caulk it [TS]

00:53:11   it's temporary but it'll you know it'll [TS]

00:53:13   keep out the ants snake [TS]

00:53:15   yeah yeah I know that and I guess the [TS]

00:53:18   pattern if we're talking talking about [TS]

00:53:20   the season one of the pattern i guess [TS]

00:53:22   the pattern ended up being a pattern of [TS]

00:53:24   of things from the people in the [TS]

00:53:28   parallel universe who were sent over his [TS]

00:53:30   agents or something like that [TS]

00:53:32   yeah it was a little holes in the [TS]

00:53:34   universe and weird things happening [TS]

00:53:35   because of them either intentionally [TS]

00:53:36   because of other agents or [TS]

00:53:38   unintentionally because of like soft [TS]

00:53:39   spots it all connected it is you know it [TS]

00:53:42   was again it was a thing like this with [TS]

00:53:44   the whole show is going to be about this [TS]

00:53:45   pattern no that's leading you to the [TS]

00:53:47   next season which you ever seen this [TS]

00:53:48   show is very good about building on you [TS]

00:53:51   know doing something and not getting [TS]

00:53:53   stuck in a rut not getting stuck in a [TS]

00:53:54   you know because even some of the [TS]

00:53:56   x-files which shows clearly based on got [TS]

00:53:58   stuck on the right of a [TS]

00:54:00   monster-of-the-week are there aliens yes [TS]

00:54:02   or no and they did that for so many [TS]

00:54:03   seasons that pretty successfully but [TS]

00:54:05   still this show has like the pattern and [TS]

00:54:07   they say no season two we're gonna [TS]

00:54:08   explain to you what is this pattern what [TS]

00:54:10   are you seeing your all the pattern is [TS]

00:54:11   because Walter did this thing and broke [TS]

00:54:14   these universes you know and then after [TS]

00:54:15   that the characters don't spend all this [TS]

00:54:17   time going what's going on with this [TS]

00:54:19   pattern they know what's going on now [TS]

00:54:20   they're on to the next thing that [TS]

00:54:21   pattern is because of the universe [TS]

00:54:23   now let's fight with of the universe or [TS]

00:54:25   deal with the issues there you know [TS]

00:54:26   that's that's something I like about the [TS]

00:54:28   show is that it you know it moves on [TS]

00:54:30   I agree with that i think we've been is [TS]

00:54:31   done that better than the x-files the [TS]

00:54:33   one element infringed that I haven't [TS]

00:54:35   liked that reminds me of the x-files is [TS]

00:54:37   the the shape-shifting creatures well [TS]

00:54:41   with that you can kill in a certain way [TS]

00:54:43   and then they kill people and take their [TS]

00:54:45   identity and and they did in this in the [TS]

00:54:48   show they have like mercury for blood or [TS]

00:54:50   something like that and i just it that's [TS]

00:54:52   such an x-files concept with the [TS]

00:54:54   shape-shifting assassins and I just a it [TS]

00:54:58   seems like a wheelie [TS]

00:54:59   weird and bad fit there's like an [TS]

00:55:01   episode where there's a u.s. senator [TS]

00:55:02   who's been replaced by a shape-shifter [TS]

00:55:04   and I never liked the you know the [TS]

00:55:07   shape-shifting assassin thing in the [TS]

00:55:10   x-files and it didn't work here either [TS]

00:55:13   how do you have you judged us both of [TS]

00:55:15   how do you judge a show compared to the [TS]

00:55:16   x-files at this point I was not an [TS]

00:55:20   x-files help you guys climate i try to [TS]

00:55:23   disqualify tried to see the movie I i [TS]

00:55:26   tried to get Dan interested in the Derek [TS]

00:55:28   Morgan episodes which i really like [TS]

00:55:29   about i love the x-files although my my [TS]

00:55:32   feeling about it is really turning by [TS]

00:55:33   the fact that went on too long and it [TS]

00:55:36   fell into its own actually I i think [TS]

00:55:39   that's a show that was better when it [TS]

00:55:41   was monster-of-the-week and a lot worse [TS]

00:55:43   when it was about the mythology because [TS]

00:55:44   the mythology went on too long and [TS]

00:55:46   became nonsensical and I I just stopped [TS]

00:55:49   caring after a while and with fringe I [TS]

00:55:52   feel like the mythology the good the [TS]

00:55:56   mythology is right like of its kind of [TS]

00:55:58   sprinkled in that first season and [TS]

00:56:00   you're like oh yeah more that or that [TS]

00:56:01   and then the second and third season [TS]

00:56:02   like every season they increase [TS]

00:56:04   two-thirds I feel like this past season [TS]

00:56:06   almost entirely with all that was great [TS]

00:56:08   my problem my problem with the way [TS]

00:56:09   French handle that the season is that [TS]

00:56:11   they had some episodes that were meant [TS]

00:56:13   to look like monster-of-the-week and [TS]

00:56:15   they all turned out to be mythology [TS]

00:56:17   related and I think that makes sense [TS]

00:56:19   though because because [TS]

00:56:20   monster-of-the-week is like one of these [TS]

00:56:22   weird things that are happening [TS]

00:56:23   eventually if you make any progress you [TS]

00:56:25   figure out oh I cya later happened yeah [TS]

00:56:28   yeah yeah there is nothing nobody there [TS]

00:56:30   was no reason for any of these things [TS]

00:56:32   besides the universe's is what we're [TS]

00:56:34   learning so what what I'd say overall is [TS]

00:56:35   that I think that that overall I feel [TS]

00:56:37   better about the series in the series [TS]

00:56:39   arc then I did about the x-files but i [TS]

00:56:41   don't think that the series has hit the [TS]

00:56:43   highs of individual episodes of The X [TS]

00:56:45   Files that was that was my take on the [TS]

00:56:47   beginning of the series 2 and continues [TS]

00:56:49   to be the case for purpose of whatever [TS]

00:56:50   reason like I don't know this because [TS]

00:56:52   there are more characters and have less [TS]

00:56:54   time to spend on them but you know [TS]

00:56:55   exhales about those two characters [TS]

00:56:56   Mulder and Scully with a really simple [TS]

00:56:58   setup and just just executed so well [TS]

00:57:01   x-files had fewer moving parts seem like [TS]

00:57:04   which sounds ridiculous when you think [TS]

00:57:06   about the big arc of x files with all [TS]

00:57:07   these crazy care but really when i [TS]

00:57:09   discard that was like two main [TS]

00:57:11   characters you so much [TS]

00:57:12   with them and you know they really [TS]

00:57:14   develop them and you believed that it [TS]

00:57:16   was like it was more affecting you know [TS]

00:57:19   when those characters had problems [TS]

00:57:21   because you felt like you knew them and [TS]

00:57:23   I think for the like that the one-off [TS]

00:57:25   shows with a little silly shows x-files [TS]

00:57:28   just had real snap on those like you [TS]

00:57:30   know I can't think of games off and like [TS]

00:57:32   French has more of a like Louis [TS]

00:57:34   slow-burn type thing with occasional [TS]

00:57:36   like crappier episodes but it's like [TS]

00:57:38   roughly at a you know [TS]

00:57:40   yeah it's like a solid but not [TS]

00:57:41   outstanding yeah it's like mediocre like [TS]

00:57:44   that it's never friends never really [TS]

00:57:45   embarrassingly bad which ex was [TS]

00:57:47   occasionally was embarrassing but it's [TS]

00:57:48   never really embarrassingly bad but it [TS]

00:57:50   no it can't break through that like I [TS]

00:57:52   don't know what it is maybe ensemble [TS]

00:57:54   cast maybe it's because they keep moving [TS]

00:57:55   on four different plot points it never [TS]

00:57:57   really breaks through to either to like [TS]

00:58:00   the hilarious highs of like that the [TS]

00:58:01   x-files episodes with a long government [TS]

00:58:03   at the DMV convention or that one right [TS]

00:58:05   there in the forties on the boat like [TS]

00:58:06   there's so many memorable X file or even [TS]

00:58:09   like the there was that one with the guy [TS]

00:58:11   from Everybody Loves Raymond with the [TS]

00:58:12   apple pie [TS]

00:58:13   oh yeah thats cloud Brockman's final [TS]

00:58:15   repose that's one of the way I yeah [TS]

00:58:16   right it means to this so many just [TS]

00:58:18   amazing episodes no friend no single [TS]

00:58:20   fringe episode has gotten close to those [TS]

00:58:23   levels you just watching for anything as [TS]

00:58:24   mentioned the circus freaks episode and [TS]

00:58:26   you didn't mention the one with the [TS]

00:58:28   cockroaches from outer space which are [TS]

00:58:29   also among my favorite everybody has [TS]

00:58:31   everybody has their there no but i [TS]

00:58:33   thought i would argue that they're like [TS]

00:58:35   six or seven that are these just so [TS]

00:58:36   clearly kind of brilliant x-files [TS]

00:58:39   episodes that are 80 if you had [TS]

00:58:41   everybody make a list of 10 that there'd [TS]

00:58:43   be six or seven that would be on every [TS]

00:58:44   single one of them and infringed yeah i [TS]

00:58:47   think maybe it's because it is a little [TS]

00:58:49   more serialize dad and and even from the [TS]

00:58:51   start and as certainly after the first [TS]

00:58:54   season they've had very little [TS]

00:58:55   opportunity to do those kind of more [TS]

00:58:56   standalone episodes and you know maybe [TS]

00:58:59   it's just that it's just not it's just [TS]

00:59:00   not funny like the x-files could there's [TS]

00:59:03   the only funny and and if there's not [TS]

00:59:05   feeling of fringe levels responded to a [TS]

00:59:07   sense of humor Walter is the only funny [TS]

00:59:09   thing really on the show and I have to [TS]

00:59:12   say you know like and that's going to [TS]

00:59:13   bed like a lot instead of with yeah but [TS]

00:59:15   I mean like he's cute and part of it is [TS]

00:59:17   John Nobles performances i think great [TS]

00:59:19   you know and he's such a weird eccentric [TS]

00:59:21   character that you really he is funny [TS]

00:59:24   but I did [TS]

00:59:25   show lacks a sense of humor because I [TS]

00:59:27   feel like what's you know I think what [TS]

00:59:30   helps them a lot of other shows their [TS]

00:59:31   kind of along these lines are like you [TS]

00:59:33   know you get the idea that the [TS]

00:59:34   characters think that the stuff is [TS]

00:59:36   ridiculous and not just like not just [TS]

00:59:39   you know unlikely or like impossible [TS]

00:59:40   like oh my god how is this possible but [TS]

00:59:42   like the characters it seemed to have [TS]

00:59:44   almost a talking to you like you like [TS]

00:59:45   vampires really you know aspect of it [TS]

00:59:49   that that that makes sort of the humor [TS]

00:59:51   work a little bit and there's no I don't [TS]

00:59:54   feel like you don't get that necessarily [TS]

00:59:55   in this show we're gonna fix itself very [TS]

00:59:57   seriously [TS]

00:59:58   ya think that what's that what's that [TS]

00:59:58   ya think that what's that what's that [TS]

01:00:00   systems name with the curly air Astra [TS]

01:00:01   Astra tested right so she with her [TS]

01:00:03   character is so unfailingly earnest but [TS]

01:00:06   we never learn anything about her [TS]

01:00:08   motivations of her life and she's just [TS]

01:00:10   kind of there in the background but [TS]

01:00:12   she's not wise cracking or star she's [TS]

01:00:14   just kind of like I can't but I don't [TS]

01:00:16   know if she's just like an automaton [TS]

01:00:17   even even the good version and thinking [TS]

01:00:20   of another show because Dan is speaking [TS]

01:00:22   and undermining of shows that you to [TS]

01:00:23   deter me onto Terriers which also had a [TS]

01:00:27   fairly big cast of characters but like [TS]

01:00:30   was just so much more fun [TS]

01:00:32   yeah with multiplication am in which [TS]

01:00:33   they didn't have a better job of drawing [TS]

01:00:35   that those two main characters right and [TS]

01:00:37   even the sub the you know the other part [TS]

01:00:40   everybody was fun everybody had some [TS]

01:00:41   sort of you know that the scenes they [TS]

01:00:43   were more interesting and fun they had [TS]

01:00:45   some sort of thing going for them and it [TS]

01:00:46   was you know but whereas the filler [TS]

01:00:48   characters and fringe or just kind of [TS]

01:00:49   like just just reading their line well [TS]

01:00:53   it filling their plot isn't telling the [TS]

01:00:55   Broyles and Astrid I mean asteroid is [TS]

01:00:57   amusing in her connection with with [TS]

01:01:00   Walter but little bit that was her only [TS]

01:01:02   definition of Broyles and astroturf kind [TS]

01:01:05   of blanks and it's telling I think that [TS]

01:01:07   somebody like Lincoln ends up becoming a [TS]

01:01:10   much more interesting character and that [TS]

01:01:12   they're adding a mr. regular where they [TS]

01:01:14   found this other character who actually [TS]

01:01:16   yeah he's he's a kind of more [TS]

01:01:18   interesting guy and and I I'd like to [TS]

01:01:21   see more of him we're in some of the [TS]

01:01:23   characters they got our kind of duds and [TS]

01:01:25   in Broyles is my Broyles well we know [TS]

01:01:27   Lance Reddick is a really good actor and [TS]

01:01:29   he's just you know he's boring i guess [TS]

01:01:31   you know Nina from from massive dynamic [TS]

01:01:34   is his girlfriend or something it's just [TS]

01:01:36   not a dish is nothing there it's just [TS]

01:01:37   not that interested to give alternate [TS]

01:01:39   Broyles a more story for the whole [TS]

01:01:41   episode really nice Tennessee's family [TS]

01:01:44   and like what is what his deal is in his [TS]

01:01:46   motivation it's like not sorry we're [TS]

01:01:47   killing them [TS]

01:01:48   we're going to get the the premise of [TS]

01:01:50   the show is killed interesting [TS]

01:01:51   characters right until a little boring [TS]

01:01:53   servants the show's don't have too many [TS]

01:01:55   characters that are two interesting [TS]

01:01:57   don't be too interesting or else you [TS]

01:01:58   might get that that's the things you can [TS]

01:02:00   select carriers that's the thing about [TS]

01:02:01   the parallel universe right is in many [TS]

01:02:03   ways that parallel universe team is much [TS]

01:02:05   more dynamic and more interesting cast [TS]

01:02:07   of characters and maybe we can argue [TS]

01:02:09   that you couldn't [TS]

01:02:10   you couldn't carry that for for every [TS]

01:02:12   episode but i don't know i think that [TS]

01:02:15   they in some ways the writers got a [TS]

01:02:16   little bit of a mulligan and they got to [TS]

01:02:18   sort of retail the the fringe cast you [TS]

01:02:22   know and retail the French story with [TS]

01:02:23   this different cast and it was more [TS]

01:02:26   interesting with a banter with Charlie [TS]

01:02:28   and lincoln and and you know the Olivia [TS]

01:02:31   over there the parallel olivia is is [TS]

01:02:33   more kind of spunky and and you know it [TS]

01:02:36   was it was kind of it on one level was a [TS]

01:02:40   lot of fun another level really kind of [TS]

01:02:41   put the serious you know great [TS]

01:02:44   characters on our side into relief they [TS]

01:02:48   have gathered writers on this on the [TS]

01:02:50   show or is it like well most shows i [TS]

01:02:53   mean you know they have a probably a [TS]

01:02:55   certain number of like writers in like [TS]

01:02:57   their room [TS]

01:02:57   they're basically I don't know if they [TS]

01:02:59   thinking like as compared to like Doctor [TS]

01:03:00   Who where they'll bring in the other [TS]

01:03:02   game and or you know or they just have [TS]

01:03:04   to russell t davies do a lot like or [TS]

01:03:05   even an x-files a lot of x-files [TS]

01:03:07   episodes we like you know they would [TS]

01:03:09   bring in other people to have either the [TS]

01:03:10   the idea for it or different person to [TS]

01:03:12   direct or whatever where there was a [TS]

01:03:14   personal stamp on individual so there's [TS]

01:03:16   a lot of the writers room as yet [TS]

01:03:17   friendly largest yeah but you've got [TS]

01:03:20   you've got a decent number of people who [TS]

01:03:22   you know have you know Nate you'd like [TS]

01:03:23   the first season had two episodes by [TS]

01:03:25   zack whedon I think joss whedon's [TS]

01:03:28   program he was on he was on the staff of [TS]

01:03:30   Maj Abrams has contributed on chemo [TS]

01:03:33   Goldman Goldman was like an outside guy [TS]

01:03:35   who was a fan but he's now consulting [TS]

01:03:38   producer i think they formalize the [TS]

01:03:40   relationship with him too well so that [TS]

01:03:42   is mainly this to you know what's pink [TS]

01:03:44   near and women or there's your show [TS]

01:03:45   running the show runners who write you [TS]

01:03:48   know the vast majority of them [TS]

01:03:50   yeah I you usually end up that's how it [TS]

01:03:54   goes you know people go in and out too [TS]

01:03:56   well it's just it's much less of a and [TS]

01:03:58   an apology right i mean that doctor who [TS]

01:04:00   for all of its story arc that they're [TS]

01:04:02   trying to build into it is essentially [TS]

01:04:04   an anthology series with with recurring [TS]

01:04:07   characters which is a great thing about [TS]

01:04:08   it and the x-files was so stand alone [TS]

01:04:11   especially early on that it was almost [TS]

01:04:13   like that it was like the twilight zone [TS]

01:04:15   with a couple of recurring characters [TS]

01:04:17   who are the people who investigate the [TS]

01:04:18   twilight zone [TS]

01:04:19   the thing that happened right and and I [TS]

01:04:22   think it's much more conducive to having [TS]

01:04:24   that you know [TS]

01:04:25   director/writer parachute in and do an [TS]

01:04:27   episode and then take off than something [TS]

01:04:28   like fringe it's the downside of having [TS]

01:04:31   that kind of nice tights serialization [TS]

01:04:34   is that is how do you fit some you know [TS]

01:04:36   somebody script and even Neil game and [TS]

01:04:38   had to rewrite his script for Doctor Who [TS]

01:04:40   a bunch of times because they kept [TS]

01:04:41   moving it in different season to season [TS]

01:04:43   you keep having babies give you like [TS]

01:04:45   three points like here's the plot points [TS]

01:04:47   you have to do for the ark story and yet [TS]

01:04:49   within those bounds feel free to do [TS]

01:04:50   anything at some point someone has to [TS]

01:04:52   slide open a little thing you see a [TS]

01:04:53   woman with the eye patch but other than [TS]

01:04:54   that just go up [TS]

01:04:56   yes i was i was shocked when I like [TS]

01:04:58   killer episode of fringe right very [TS]

01:05:01   strange for the eyepatch lady appeared [TS]

01:05:02   in the future for it but they should [TS]

01:05:04   have to have a cameo on fringe where [TS]

01:05:06   Rory comes in from the side and gets [TS]

01:05:07   killed off and also I just a blue box [TS]

01:05:11   appearing off to the side and one of his [TS]

01:05:13   I have a dream that uh that Arthur [TS]

01:05:15   Darvill in the future will appear in [TS]

01:05:17   various other shows and be killed [TS]

01:05:19   horribly just for yeah I for fun but [TS]

01:05:23   this is not even the right body can [TS]

01:05:24   totally not the right podcast so always [TS]

01:05:26   this so all these podcasts are happening [TS]

01:05:28   Simon all all in parallel universes so [TS]

01:05:31   all in all all in all despite the fact [TS]

01:05:34   that we kind of Baghdad's I still [TS]

01:05:35   enjoyed the show season this do you [TS]

01:05:37   think this was a successful Cincinnatus [TS]

01:05:39   i think i was i think i mean i would [TS]

01:05:40   argue the hands-down the best season of [TS]

01:05:42   the show so far [TS]

01:05:43   I mean I feel like it really it's one of [TS]

01:05:46   the few shows on television I feel like [TS]

01:05:47   a torch was another good one kind of a [TS]

01:05:50   similar show in some ways improved every [TS]

01:05:52   season like to the point where it's like [TS]

01:05:55   yeah okay you're actually getting to a [TS]

01:05:58   point or you're developing your [TS]

01:05:59   characters into something that's [TS]

01:06:00   interesting and I feel like hands down [TS]

01:06:03   the third season of fringe has been the [TS]

01:06:05   best so far and they keep doing [TS]

01:06:06   different things so if you keep doing [TS]

01:06:08   different things i'll keep watching this [TS]

01:06:09   is that I don't get you know that if I [TS]

01:06:11   get annoyed that they did something not [TS]

01:06:12   as well as X Files which is pretty much [TS]

01:06:14   everything they do like well so what [TS]

01:06:15   watch next week we'll do something [TS]

01:06:16   different you know you won't constantly [TS]

01:06:18   be it's not the same thing over and over [TS]

01:06:20   again it's not it's not CSI you know [TS]

01:06:22   alternate universe it's not one of those [TS]

01:06:24   cookie cutter shows it's not law and [TS]

01:06:25   order you it's harder to get sick of [TS]

01:06:27   even when they just do like its kind of [TS]

01:06:30   mediocre not doing a great job but I [TS]

01:06:31   want to see what they do next [TS]

01:06:33   keep watching i don't like a notorious [TS]

01:06:34   leonard nimoy wax impression that's okay [TS]

01:06:37   it'll only happen for an episode of two [TS]

01:06:38   and then you'll never speak of it again [TS]

01:06:40   so right just like a child I like this [TS]

01:06:42   baby plotline that way to episode you'll [TS]

01:06:43   be fine yeah she had the baby 42 minutes [TS]

01:06:45   amazing that's how we doing over here [TS]

01:06:47   and then the next episode will be [TS]

01:06:49   teenager and she'll be on the FBI you [TS]

01:06:51   know friends division to the baby right [TS]

01:06:53   alongside her the the give babies guns [TS]

01:06:57   in this you know i think that i think it [TS]

01:06:59   was a good season with you know I think [TS]

01:07:00   I think it kind of had that sag toward [TS]

01:07:03   the latter half before they get up for [TS]

01:07:05   the finale a little bit but I loved also [TS]

01:07:08   that they went back to the to the [TS]

01:07:09   flashback episode they have another one [TS]

01:07:11   where they'll be like a tease opening [TS]

01:07:14   titles [TS]

01:07:14   well yeah i love the the different [TS]

01:07:16   titles which is also those two such a [TS]

01:07:18   good job of making john noble look like [TS]

01:07:21   20 years younger to it blows me away [TS]

01:07:23   that he's like a plastic face I'm [TS]

01:07:25   telling you you're right you're right [TS]

01:07:26   there they have the red and the blue for [TS]

01:07:28   the two different University of the gray [TS]

01:07:29   one for the future and then they have [TS]

01:07:30   the the the super eighties electronic [TS]

01:07:34   synthesizer version with the with the [TS]

01:07:35   ladies font and in the eighties [TS]

01:07:38   technology and very ancient get all the [TS]

01:07:40   words for each one to which i understand [TS]

01:07:42   yeah saw the future one your idea there [TS]

01:07:44   are only 2 c1 words are going to say are [TS]

01:07:45   important in our future you know and it [TS]

01:07:48   didn't see app store it in any of the [TS]

01:07:50   words with me something what that means [TS]

01:07:52   i would have been great like you [TS]

01:07:55   biotechnology absolutely can't let I [TS]

01:07:58   think future happen i think this show [TS]

01:08:00   has more openings any other show that I [TS]

01:08:02   want to except for maybe supernatural [TS]

01:08:04   and that's my patented supernatural [TS]

01:08:06   reference there for you I was going to [TS]

01:08:08   start watching we showed and keeps [TS]

01:08:09   referencing afraid that's my goal that [TS]

01:08:12   is my goal but the eighties episodes [TS]

01:08:14   agree because it's got that look around [TS]

01:08:15   you if you haven't seen him look around [TS]

01:08:17   you with that it's that nice faux [TS]

01:08:19   eighties of yes we admit this is what [TS]

01:08:21   the eighties were like it was very [TS]

01:08:22   cheesy back then that's that's yeah the [TS]

01:08:27   doogie howser theme music sounds kind of [TS]

01:08:28   like that French music that you do [TS]

01:08:31   that's right it's just like anything it [TS]

01:08:32   was taking me to get my diver [TS]

01:08:34   oh yeah 222222 yeah [TS]

01:08:38   to what are the words for that one there [TS]

01:08:40   tell you we got you we do I love him so [TS]

01:08:44   dreamy the hair he will be P would be [TS]

01:08:46   primary rate are you know he was the [TS]

01:08:49   perfect fridge actually that's what the [TS]

01:08:51   show needs you want to everyone like [TS]

01:08:52   this i have to say like I i'm not i was [TS]

01:08:55   not a regular watcher of stargate but [TS]

01:08:58   every time I tuned in you know or cotton [TS]

01:09:01   episode Richard Dean Anderson would [TS]

01:09:03   inevitably make me crack up about [TS]

01:09:05   something is just like he was just so [TS]

01:09:07   good at like he's the guy right like [TS]

01:09:09   he's the guy like aliens all right [TS]

01:09:11   sure let's do this the big nope i would [TS]

01:09:16   be great station at him as a regular [TS]

01:09:18   come over yeah I don't think Richard Jim [TS]

01:09:20   Anderson's gonna go back to Vancouver [TS]

01:09:21   ever again but i think i did fringes [TS]

01:09:25   feel a lot of children in New York no no [TS]

01:09:28   no this is got those seven exteriors [TS]

01:09:30   done boss so so here's the story [TS]

01:09:33   this is probably nothing I wanted so I [TS]

01:09:35   thought they found a bunch of new york [TS]

01:09:37   on the first okay so here's the story [TS]

01:09:38   yes so I later season the state of New [TS]

01:09:41   York had a tax credit for for film [TS]

01:09:44   productions and in in New York City and [TS]

01:09:47   so they shot fringe set in boston but [TS]

01:09:49   the shot it in Brooklyn actually and [TS]

01:09:52   then as they're wrapping up the season [TS]

01:09:54   the governor says we don't want to have [TS]

01:09:56   money for hollywood productions in our [TS]

01:09:58   state will cancel the tax credit and and [TS]

01:10:02   so the producer friend said well we [TS]

01:10:05   pretty much for knocking off The X Files [TS]

01:10:07   anyway so we're gonna shoot in vancouver [TS]

01:10:10   now so they shoot in Vancouver with but [TS]

01:10:13   maybe an occasional exteriors at all [TS]

01:10:16   right i am seeing the whole cycle they [TS]

01:10:17   felt all the Boston xterra since season [TS]

01:10:19   one and just keep reusing them [TS]

01:10:21   incidentally yes as John i can tell you [TS]

01:10:23   the Boston exteriors are often hilarious [TS]

01:10:26   actually almost anything to do with [TS]

01:10:29   either the geography is not bad likely [TS]

01:10:31   they've got a map but my favorite [TS]

01:10:33   episode by episode remain my favorite [TS]

01:10:36   episode ever remains when one of the [TS]

01:10:37   characters refers to the city of welcome [TS]

01:10:39   and I just was like why [TS]

01:10:42   you don't have a single person on your [TS]

01:10:44   shop staff who knows that's not how it's [TS]

01:10:46   pronounced to pronounce waltham well [TS]

01:10:50   that's totally different [TS]

01:10:51   it's not welcome its waltham totally [TS]

01:10:55   different sound it sounds wrong with the [TS]

01:10:57   people who live here and it feels like [TS]

01:10:58   you know that might immediately be like [TS]

01:11:01   show with that much money you think it's [TS]

01:11:02   been two seconds to get a fact-checker [TS]

01:11:04   to say remember sitting must have known [TS]

01:11:06   that would be like saying oh yeah it's [TS]

01:11:08   out in war sister that in you know in [TS]

01:11:12   Star Trek for their they're standing on [TS]

01:11:14   the on the Oakland side of the bay [TS]

01:11:17   bridge saying if we could only get to [TS]

01:11:18   alameda which is basically where they're [TS]

01:11:20   standing together some was someone was [TS]

01:11:23   buying star trek for who was it was a [TS]

01:11:25   trend someone was putting down star trek [TS]

01:11:27   for in the episode which is searching [TS]

01:11:29   for is great it's not mean I brought it [TS]

01:11:31   up you brought it up [TS]

01:11:32   no it's great i know i'm trying to think [TS]

01:11:34   of your was like and I was gonna I was [TS]

01:11:35   gonna also throughout my other favorite [TS]

01:11:37   Boston related thing which in the first [TS]

01:11:39   season the Reds acha know the the first [TS]

01:11:42   loser friends there's an episode in [TS]

01:11:44   French where they talk about we have to [TS]

01:11:46   catch the suspect he sets we spotted at [TS]

01:11:48   south station and they show this like [TS]

01:11:50   exterior shot like this cute little [TS]

01:11:52   train depot looking like quaint little [TS]

01:11:54   crate train depot and I'm staring at [TS]

01:11:56   this going [TS]

01:11:57   what they didn't even like they could [TS]

01:11:58   have gotten exteriors I mean south [TS]

01:12:00   station is a pretty big state shouldn't [TS]

01:12:02   go inside though it was bigger on the [TS]

01:12:03   inside i think they've shown think [TS]

01:12:05   seeing this house party internal state [TS]

01:12:06   of grand central station not actual yeah [TS]

01:12:08   it's not quite as large as grand central [TS]

01:12:10   station but it's more along that wine [TS]

01:12:12   then it is along the line of a cute [TS]

01:12:13   little train depot submit nice that they [TS]

01:12:15   actually attempt to set the show and [TS]

01:12:17   Boston mo it is and i love that the [TS]

01:12:19   federal building is also the Hancock [TS]

01:12:20   building which is great and yeah I don't [TS]

01:12:22   quite understand the location it's like [TS]

01:12:24   we're picking the most distinctive [TS]

01:12:25   looking building in like you've only got [TS]

01:12:27   two tall buildings whole damn podunk [TS]

01:12:29   city or even though the Hancock building [TS]

01:12:30   is the federal building it's not the [TS]

01:12:32   traditional visually way too old [TS]

01:12:34   that's the massive diarrhea the [TS]

01:12:35   potential be the will be the sixties [TS]

01:12:37   when they go back to the sixties exactly [TS]

01:12:39   yeah well you're going to the seventies [TS]

01:12:41   for the dharma initiative and they have [TS]

01:12:43   I i do i think there was an episode with [TS]

01:12:44   a serial killer in somerville which made [TS]

01:12:46   me nervous [TS]

01:12:47   yes I was worried for you but there are [TS]

01:12:48   0 summer I sure here [TS]

01:12:51   thanks feel much better now hey there [TS]

01:12:55   was an episode where they mention Newton [TS]

01:12:56   to ya at the evidence that places they [TS]

01:12:59   show just there's certain things about a [TS]

01:13:01   city that are iconic you shouldn't show [TS]

01:13:03   them what you're going to do them like [TS]

01:13:04   they show trains that are not MBTA [TS]

01:13:06   trains and the trains in Boston look a [TS]

01:13:08   particular way it's like New York City [TS]

01:13:09   subways look one way [TS]

01:13:11   MBDA trains look very different and you [TS]

01:13:13   can't mix them because it's just [TS]

01:13:14   off-putting [TS]

01:13:15   I meant to ask you things you just liked [TS]

01:13:18   about fringe but generally positive it's [TS]

01:13:21   nice i wouldn't say that I complaints [TS]

01:13:27   about it it's just like yeah you want [TS]

01:13:29   yogurt [TS]

01:13:30   it's not it's you know it's there it's [TS]

01:13:33   there he keeps moving you and you keep [TS]

01:13:35   watching it so basically what you're [TS]

01:13:37   selling literally again i've just signed [TS]

01:13:39   off and we're going to come back to this [TS]

01:13:40   but what you're saying about about [TS]

01:13:44   fringe is that you may not always liked [TS]

01:13:46   it but it's like like a boxing match it [TS]

01:13:48   keeps kind of dodging so you can't get [TS]

01:13:50   really get a beat on it it might you [TS]

01:13:51   know everyone's gonna sighs about it's [TS]

01:13:54   just it's it's inoffensive notice i [TS]

01:13:58   think it's i think i agree i I don't [TS]

01:14:00   think it's a no it's a plus level kind [TS]

01:14:02   of show at all but that it's a you know [TS]

01:14:05   it's a kind of a fun ride and they have [TS]

01:14:07   had their are you know some things in [TS]

01:14:09   that story arc that are better just a [TS]

01:14:11   lot of fun to watch the twists and turns [TS]

01:14:12   but it's the same time story ID is not [TS]

01:14:15   very well executed [TS]

01:14:16   yeah it makes me miss lost doesn't all [TS]

01:14:20   the shows make you miss lost a little [TS]

01:14:22   bit yeah [TS]

01:14:23   for all its warts yeah yeah I I agree I [TS]

01:14:27   agree I I like fringes ambition on one [TS]

01:14:32   level on a story level that reminds me [TS]

01:14:33   of lost a little bit lost had so many [TS]

01:14:35   other things going for it in terms of [TS]

01:14:36   execution and acting and characters and [TS]

01:14:38   I'm not looking forward to anything the [TS]

01:14:40   way I look forward to like for example [TS]

01:14:42   the good early middle part of battlestar [TS]

01:14:46   or the the next episode of lost I would [TS]

01:14:48   look forward to those i like that is the [TS]

01:14:50   battles are the good early middle part [TS]

01:14:53   because that means of my feeling is that [TS]

01:14:55   there were you always like that [TS]

01:14:57   so that are pretty sweet Africa episodes [TS]

01:14:59   know you know my fear about lost is that [TS]

01:15:01   my dad always used to talk about how he [TS]

01:15:03   loved the Rockford Files and then when [TS]

01:15:05   it went off the air there wasn't really [TS]

01:15:06   anything good on TV after that and I [TS]

01:15:08   fear that that I'm gonna do that now I'm [TS]

01:15:10   gonna be like yeah well you know lost [TS]

01:15:12   one of their always be something else [TS]

01:15:14   like visit with me that was the X that [TS]

01:15:16   was you know that was moonlighting that [TS]

01:15:18   was the x-files that wasn't as always [TS]

01:15:19   some show that's that's you know steals [TS]

01:15:21   your heart but there's always another [TS]

01:15:22   one that comes along alright but until [TS]

01:15:24   French returns or we decide to talk [TS]

01:15:26   about some other show i would like to [TS]

01:15:28   thank my guess [TS]

01:15:29   dan more'n thank you thank you you're [TS]

01:15:33   welcome and John siracusa thank you in a [TS]

01:15:36   pleasure [TS]

01:15:37   yes a pleasure as always but until next [TS]

01:15:39   time this is jason l for John siracusa [TS]

01:15:42   and dan morgan for the incomparable [TS]

01:15:44   goodnight [TS]

01:15:52   [Music] [TS]